IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 20th, 2009

DaemonFCThomson Consumer Electronics is one of themAug 20 00:00
schestowitzLike Alexis de T.Aug 20 00:00
schestowitzOr whatever it was calledAug 20 00:00
DaemonFCThomson is the local MP3 patent troll in the United StatesAug 20 00:00
schestowitzThink tanks and 'intellectuals' for bidddingAug 20 00:00
DaemonFCmy dad used to work for Thomson when they actually made thingsAug 20 00:00
DaemonFCthat was a while agoAug 20 00:00
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DaemonFChe was picked up when Thomson bought out RCA (Thomson is actually a French company)Aug 20 00:01
DaemonFCMy dad used to design components for their consumer electronics division, did a lot of television component designAug 20 00:02
DaemonFCpart of developing things on company time meant that he had to assign them rights to use his patentsAug 20 00:02
DaemonFCwhich they're now doing royalty free even though he is no longer working thereAug 20 00:03
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DaemonFChe's fairly disguisted that all the work he did for them is now being used in their new business of patent trolling without actually making anything, at the time they were an American company that hired Americans and now they're just some French conglomerate that doles out the production of things to Mexico and ChinaAug 20 00:05
DaemonFCthings have changed a lot in 20 yearsAug 20 00:05
Diablo-D3things always change.Aug 20 00:05
Diablo-D3the funny part is the same change they use to make money is the same change that will destroy themAug 20 00:05
DaemonFCyeah, they used to compete toe to toe with SonyAug 20 00:06
DaemonFCnow it's all just the same old shit coming off the same production lines in ChinaAug 20 00:06
DaemonFCit all has the same quality, the same failure rates, the only difference is which logo they put on it and how much the unit costsAug 20 00:06
DaemonFCI still have an RCA TV that was built in Bloomington, Indiana in 1980, it's one of those console sets in a wood furntiure encasing, they don't make those anymore obviouslyAug 20 00:07
DaemonFCnow it's those tacky black plastic Chinese-made junk that blows up after a couple years and you go buy a new oneAug 20 00:08
Diablo-D3hehAug 20 00:08
Diablo-D3I actually like the black look, but not that new modern shitAug 20 00:08
Diablo-D3I prefer my NEC monitorAug 20 00:08
DaemonFCit all looks the sameAug 20 00:08
Diablo-D3matte "dark grey" black, completely squareAug 20 00:08
cubezzzit would be interesting to know if anyone makes tvs in North AmericaAug 20 00:09
DaemonFCit's like "We are television of Borg, you will be asimilated"Aug 20 00:09
DaemonFC"Buy a new model every 3 years, you will comply"Aug 20 00:09
Diablo-D3heh, I wont buy a new TV in 3 years.Aug 20 00:09
Diablo-D3mine wont be even half way done at that pointAug 20 00:09
DaemonFCcubezzz: The ones we made will last you 20 years or moreAug 20 00:10
DaemonFCyou don't get that kind of quality anymore, you can't, it doesn't existAug 20 00:10
DaemonFCmost people now just treat everything as disposable anywayAug 20 00:10
Diablo-D3I wish they didntAug 20 00:10
Diablo-D3its rather wastefulAug 20 00:10
cubezzzI think our 1992 set is an RCA actually, works fineAug 20 00:11
DaemonFCthat TV is almost 30 years oldAug 20 00:11
DaemonFCit's older than I amAug 20 00:11
DaemonFCstill works just fineAug 20 00:11
*Diablo-D3 's toshiba LCD will probably last 10 yearsAug 20 00:11
DaemonFCI have a newer set in here thoughAug 20 00:11
Diablo-D3I don't run it at 100% brightness like some moronsAug 20 00:11
DaemonFCmelt your corneas, make the display burn out 20% sooner than it shouldAug 20 00:11
DaemonFCnew sale every 5 years instead of every 6-7Aug 20 00:12
Diablo-D3200% sooner >_>Aug 20 00:12
DaemonFCwhere's the bad part for them?Aug 20 00:12
cubezzzmy dual p3 still works good, probably the computer I've used the most, built in late 1998Aug 20 00:12
Diablo-D3I prefer ~125 nits or soAug 20 00:12
Diablo-D3TVs regularly can crank out 500. Yes, its linear.Aug 20 00:12
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cubezzzyeah I turn down the brightness tooAug 20 00:12
Diablo-D3cubezzz: urgh, I'd junk that PCAug 20 00:13
Diablo-D3its a waste of powerAug 20 00:13
*Xarver grabs popcornAug 20 00:13
DaemonFCI run my display at 80% brightnessAug 20 00:13
Diablo-D3anyhow, I junk displays when the brightness goesAug 20 00:13
Diablo-D3even LCDs do itAug 20 00:13
DaemonFCthey default to 100%, which is like surface of the sunAug 20 00:13
Diablo-D3the phosphors wear outAug 20 00:13
DaemonFCif you get a really realyl expensive CRT monitor, it's of higher quality than an LCDAug 20 00:14
Diablo-D3not reallyAug 20 00:14
Diablo-D3they dont make those CRTs anymoreAug 20 00:14
schestowitz'Free' markets... 20 00:14
DaemonFCbut you have to spend a lot to get that qualityAug 20 00:14
DaemonFCthey don't?Aug 20 00:14
Diablo-D3I used to have a sony pro trinitronAug 20 00:14
Diablo-D3the brightness was shot on it, so I wanted to replace itAug 20 00:14
Diablo-D3they dont make them anymoreAug 20 00:15
DaemonFCyeah, RCA made the "trinitron" technology btwAug 20 00:15
DaemonFCMy dad told me they sold it to Sony because it doesn't work rightAug 20 00:15
Diablo-D3so I replaced it with a 26" NEC artists monitorAug 20 00:15
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: it does, but it required other techAug 20 00:15
Diablo-D3the original "grey" trins suckedAug 20 00:15
Diablo-D3short phosphor lifeAug 20 00:15
DaemonFChe said after a while of watching the display you would see a horizontal line in the middleAug 20 00:15
Diablo-D3ahh, I know what hes talking aboutAug 20 00:15
DaemonFCand they could never get that to go away and still cost what people would pay to buy itAug 20 00:16
Diablo-D3the shadow mask guide wiresAug 20 00:16
Diablo-D3they ended up switching it up with multiple guide wiresAug 20 00:16
Diablo-D3I could see them on mine, but it doesn't bother meAug 20 00:16
Diablo-D3you can look past them very easilyAug 20 00:16
Diablo-D3and they only show up when you have the screen very bright (so they only showed up for me when I displayed white)Aug 20 00:17
DaemonFCschestowitz, FhG technically competes with Microsoft, but like I stated earlier, Microsoft licenses prettty much every MPEG patent there is to implement Windows MediaAug 20 00:17
DaemonFCso they're making a killing off royalty payments from MS and MS doesn't actually own a lot of the patent rights to Windows MediaAug 20 00:17
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: but yeahAug 20 00:18
Diablo-D3CRTs are deadAug 20 00:18
Diablo-D3you cant buy them anymoreAug 20 00:18
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Diablo-D3what I dont like is I had to pay $1200 for my montiroAug 20 00:18
schestowitzCorporatism disguised as "freedom" 20 00:18
DaemonFCMPEG standards are basically the only media formats worth using, Windows Media is a second rate knockoffAug 20 00:18
Diablo-D3also, FhG doesnt own MPEG standardsAug 20 00:19
DaemonFCtruly independent listening and viewing tests always confirm that people prefer MPEG over Windows Media, by a significant marginAug 20 00:19
Diablo-D3their sole claim to fame is mp3Aug 20 00:19
Diablo-D3a half assed shitty codec I dont encode inAug 20 00:19
DaemonFCyeah, that's the biggest money maker thoughAug 20 00:19
DaemonFCMP3 is not a bad codecAug 20 00:19
Diablo-D3audip is so small I just use flacAug 20 00:19
Diablo-D3*audioAug 20 00:19
DaemonFCtheir reference encoder is awful thoughAug 20 00:19
Diablo-D3all encoders outside of lame are awfulAug 20 00:20
DaemonFCHelix isn't bad eitherAug 20 00:20
DaemonFCcomparable results to Lame, not quite as good, but it encodes about 5 times faster because a lot of it is x86 assemblerAug 20 00:20
Diablo-D3I own a core 2 duo e8500Aug 20 00:21
Diablo-D3lame encodes about 9000 times faster than realtimeAug 20 00:21
DaemonFCnot that this matters at all when you're pulling the audio stream at CD speedsAug 20 00:21
DaemonFCtranscoding from FLAC, Helix blows Lame away in encoding speedAug 20 00:21
DaemonFCHelix is open source/free software but it's under the Real Public Source LicenseAug 20 00:22
DaemonFCwhich is not a very strong copyleftAug 20 00:22
DaemonFCand it has a viral clause like GPLAug 20 00:22
DaemonFCLame uses LGPL which I think is more appropriate considering how it's meant to be usedAug 20 00:23
Diablo-D3like I said, I can already encode much faster than realtime with lameAug 20 00:23
DaemonFCyeah, the x86 32-bit version of LAME is actualyl faster in many cases than the x86-64 versionAug 20 00:23
DaemonFCoddly enoughAug 20 00:23
DaemonFCmore optimizations, I think some of the 32-bit version is assembler that they got back from the Gogo forkAug 20 00:24
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DaemonFCThere's a lot of bugs in the ISO reference encoder and psychoacoustic modelAug 20 00:25
DaemonFCnot even the FhG encoder uses that psy modelAug 20 00:25
DaemonFCI kind of figure the bugs were deliberately introduced to make independent implementation of a decent MP3 encoder harder, Lame still managed to iron those bugs outAug 20 00:25
Diablo-D3oAug 20 00:26
Diablo-D3noAug 20 00:26
Diablo-D3I think its because the guys were idiotsAug 20 00:26
Diablo-D3for example, look at mp2Aug 20 00:26
DaemonFCFhG isn't really an authority on the MP3 standard anywayAug 20 00:26
DaemonFCthey use their own header format, and they use their own gapless playback implementationAug 20 00:27
Diablo-D3superior quality at higher bitratesAug 20 00:27
DaemonFCcalled OFL (Original File Length)Aug 20 00:27
Diablo-D3hehAug 20 00:27
DaemonFChardware players almost never support OFLAug 20 00:27
Diablo-D3theres another problemAug 20 00:27
Diablo-D3mp3s actually existAug 20 00:27
Diablo-D3they shouldnt exist outside of an mpg containerAug 20 00:27
DaemonFCthey usually do support the VBRI header but some of them don't and the total length of the song will keep being changed as it playsAug 20 00:27
DaemonFCmost every player supports XING headersAug 20 00:28
DaemonFC(what Lame uses)Aug 20 00:28
DaemonFCyou can use MP3 audio in an AAC container, you can also use it in an MPEG-4 container, no reason you would thoughAug 20 00:28
DaemonFCyou trade the bit reservoir for arbitrary bit allocation, it doesn't change the efficiency of the bitstream, just how they are storedAug 20 00:29
DaemonFCthere's not reason to use AAC or MP4 containers for anything other then MPEG-4 audioAug 20 00:29
Diablo-D3that isnt itAug 20 00:29
Diablo-D3its raw audioAug 20 00:29
Diablo-D3I dont particularly like raw streams for things meant to be used in mpeg systemsAug 20 00:30
DaemonFCanyhow, I need to go find some dinner, bblAug 20 00:30
Diablo-D3and btw, theres no aac container eitherAug 20 00:30
schestowitz (Michael Bloomberg - Origins of the Economic Crisis)Aug 20 00:31
schestowitzWho'w gonna be up for op?Aug 20 00:37
tessierschestowitz: Some sort of power distribution panel failure this morning.Aug 20 00:41
XarverI want an ogg playerAug 20 00:41
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schestowitztessier: they fixed it fast. Maybe generator?Aug 20 00:42
>ChanServ<op #boycottnovell schestowitzAug 20 00:43
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DaemonFCtornado watch, severe thunderstorms, yayAug 20 01:47
DaemonFCthat's interesting, Outlook Express opens the 64-bit version of IEAug 20 01:50
Diablo-D3clearly this is for virusesAug 20 01:50
DaemonFCOutlook Express us actually reasonably safe if you're using XP SP2 or laterAug 20 01:54
cubezzzDiablo-D3, you were talking about power usage before, regarding the older p3 computerAug 20 01:54
cubezzzwhat would be better, a computer based on the intel atom?Aug 20 01:54
DaemonFC*isAug 20 01:55
Diablo-D3cubezzz: noAug 20 01:55
Diablo-D3due to the fact it just doesn't have enough powerAug 20 01:55
Diablo-D3 20 01:55
Diablo-D3 20 01:56
Diablo-D3cubezzz: how much memory do you have now?Aug 20 01:56
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cubezzzthis one has 384 megsAug 20 01:56
Diablo-D3I meant your p3 boxAug 20 01:56
Diablo-D3 20 01:56
Diablo-D3because I'd throw that in unless you need moreAug 20 01:57
cubezzzthis one is the dual p3, and it has 384 megs of memoryAug 20 01:57
Diablo-D3that altogether uses about 75-100 wattsAug 20 01:57
Diablo-D3yours uses about 200-300 wattsAug 20 01:57
DaemonFCbefore SP2, Outlook ran HTML in the "Internet Zone" and it was easy to accidentally run VBS scriptsAug 20 01:57
Diablo-D3cubezzz: thats everything you need, northbridge has built in gpuAug 20 01:57
DaemonFCpost-SP2 it uses the restricted zone and won't even let you open VBS attachments and other likely virusesAug 20 01:57
Diablo-D3cubezzz: all you have to do is throw in a new hdAug 20 01:58
DaemonFCno legitimate message will have a VBS, COM, CHM, or BAT attachment anywayAug 20 01:58
Diablo-D3cubezzz: the stuff I just outlined will be about 5x faster give or take than your dual p3Aug 20 01:59
cubezzz65 watts, hmmmAug 20 01:59
cubezzzI wonder how much this box usesAug 20 01:59
cubezzzyeah it's pretty oldAug 20 01:59
Diablo-D3thats a 65W TDP max figureAug 20 01:59
Diablo-D3that doesnt mean anything, reallyAug 20 01:59
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Diablo-D3the whole rig will use about 75-100 watts on averageAug 20 01:59
Diablo-D3like I said, yours does 200-300 on averageAug 20 02:00
cubezzzsince it runs 24/7 it's probably worth itAug 20 02:00
Diablo-D3yupAug 20 02:00
DaemonFCa lot of the cheaper power supplies advertise huge watt ratings but then you find in the small print "65% efficiency"Aug 20 02:01
Diablo-D3and thats all about $187 without a driveAug 20 02:01
DaemonFCso they're wasting almost as much power as they're providing to the systemAug 20 02:01
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: yeah, its nutsAug 20 02:01
Diablo-D3thats why I use pc power and cooling psusAug 20 02:02
DaemonFCdon't ever buy a PSU with less than 85-90% efficiencyAug 20 02:02
Diablo-D3first manuf. to sell consumer psus with 90% efficiency ratingsAug 20 02:02
DaemonFCor you're being cheatedAug 20 02:02
Diablo-D3(protip: they're really enterprise quality)Aug 20 02:02
Diablo-D3cubezzz: btw, what size drive does it have in it?Aug 20 02:02
DaemonFCDiablo-D3: Back to MPEG, I'd actually feel far less safe using MPEG-4 AACAug 20 02:04
DaemonFCso many people have so many patents on itAug 20 02:04
DaemonFCApple has a lotAug 20 02:04
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: I dont care about the patents, I just care about being able to play it backAug 20 02:04
Diablo-D3thats a much larger issueAug 20 02:04
cubezzzit's got a 40 gig and a 20 gig and an external 80 gig via usbAug 20 02:04
DaemonFCwell, lots of portables play WMA, doesn't mean I want to use itAug 20 02:04
Diablo-D3I cant play back WMA reliablyAug 20 02:04
Diablo-D3cubezzz: are you actually storing files on it?Aug 20 02:05
DaemonFCyou can play the files on Linux easily, there's a very crude encoder bundled with ffmpegAug 20 02:05
cubezzzDiablo-D3, yes, all the drives are usedAug 20 02:05
Diablo-D3cubezzz: wow what a huge power drainAug 20 02:05
cubezzzso I need two ide connectorsAug 20 02:05
DaemonFCI tried encoding WMA on Linux once just for the hell of it, it works but not as well as Windows Media EncoderAug 20 02:05
cubezzzor I need to redo that too :)Aug 20 02:05
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Diablo-D3cubezzz: transfer them all to 20 02:06
Diablo-D3though I recommend you buy two and raid 1 itAug 20 02:06
Diablo-D3old 3.5" drives are huge power drainsAug 20 02:06
Diablo-D3they're like 2x the power usageAug 20 02:06
Diablo-D3its nutsAug 20 02:06
cubezzzwell, at least I stopped using the CRT :)Aug 20 02:07
DaemonFCWMA could be an ISO standard just as easily as AAC was chosen, that's what is scary, of course it's not like Microsoft wants that to happenAug 20 02:07
DaemonFCthey could have submitted it for inclusion in the MPEG 4 standard thoughAug 20 02:08
Diablo-D3cubezzz: this is why I upgrade hardware btwAug 20 02:08
Diablo-D3cubezzz: my machines keep using roughly the same wattage... I just get vastly better performance out of itAug 20 02:08
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DaemonFCon a technical level, the two aren't all that differentAug 20 02:08
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Diablo-D3DaemonFC: thats due to microsoft being a bunch of fuckwadsAug 20 02:09
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: look at vc-1... its h264 light.Aug 20 02:09
Diablo-D3same damned techniquesAug 20 02:09
DaemonFCyeah, and DivX was based on the non-standard Microsoft "MPEG-4" codec originallyAug 20 02:09
DaemonFCDivX files used to have WMA as their audio trackAug 20 02:09
*Diablo-D3 smacks DaemonFC Aug 20 02:10
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Diablo-D3divx3 is a hack of the microsoft mpeg4 codec to make it actually work rightAug 20 02:10
Diablo-D3that has nothing to do with the audio, anything that fits in the container worksAug 20 02:10
Diablo-D3divx5/6/7/8/whatever is a complete rewrite, xvid is a competing rewriteAug 20 02:11
Diablo-D3ms mpeg-4 and divx3 aren't actually compatible with the spec because they suckAug 20 02:12
DaemonFCWell, I think a lot of Microsoft's problems in having Windows Media be accepted is that there's actually like 6 different mutually incompatible codecs to get all of the features, you've got WMA Voice, WMA Standard, WMA Pro, and WMA Lossless, and there's actually two different bitstream formats of the Standard and Pro profilesAug 20 02:13
cubezzzI don't suppose the UPS would tell me the wattage the computer is usingAug 20 02:14
DaemonFCMPEG-4 AAC can accomplish all the same jobs with only one codec and the encoder switches "profiles" that are a superset of AAC-LCAug 20 02:14
Diablo-D3cubezzz: noAug 20 02:15
Diablo-D3buy a KillawattAug 20 02:15
Diablo-D3best gadget Ive ever boughtAug 20 02:15
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: yeah, its fucking stupidAug 20 02:15
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: I can take a he-acc v2 and feed it to aac-lc, and it worksAug 20 02:15
Diablo-D3it sounds like shit, obviously, but it worksAug 20 02:16
Diablo-D3and theres the lossless aac and that can be baseline aac decodersAug 20 02:16
DaemonFCif you use ffdshow and select WMA Standard, it gives you the choice of "0x160" and "0x161", those are WMAv1 and v2Aug 20 02:16
Diablo-D3microsoft is just fucking stupidAug 20 02:16
DaemonFCv1 didn't last very long and always had the ASF ectensionAug 20 02:16
Diablo-D3this is why they made me very angryAug 20 02:16
Diablo-D3with that much fucking money and manpowerAug 20 02:16
Diablo-D3I could rule the tech industryAug 20 02:16
Diablo-D3overnightAug 20 02:17
DaemonFCvs is still the bitstream format of WMA Standard, the encoder itself is marketed as "WMA 9.2"Aug 20 02:17
Diablo-D3I could out apple apple, out linux linux, and out sun sunAug 20 02:17
DaemonFCmakes it sound more mature than it really isAug 20 02:17
Diablo-D3I'd also out TV TVAug 20 02:17
DaemonFCbig version numberAug 20 02:17
DaemonFC*v2Aug 20 02:17
Diablo-D3it just fucking pisses me off so muchAug 20 02:17
cubezzzDiablo-D3, you may as well write your own OS :)Aug 20 02:17
Diablo-D3that isnt itAug 20 02:18
DaemonFCso you have to watch out when a portable says it supports WMA, what it probably means is that is supports the WMA "Standard" codec and only version 2 of that bitstreamAug 20 02:18
Diablo-D3people should know not to waste my timeAug 20 02:18
DaemonFCdoesn't mean that any old WMA file will playAug 20 02:18
Diablo-D3people who waste my time end up being fucked in the ass repeatedlyAug 20 02:18
DaemonFCI tried out WMA Pro version 10 and actually kind of liked it, so I went to test a file transfer to my portable and caught Windows Media Player transcoding the file to WMA standard in the backgroundAug 20 02:19
DaemonFC:PAug 20 02:19
DaemonFCit's like what's the point in using it if you have to maintain two sets of files?Aug 20 02:19
Diablo-D3its just all largely fucking retardedAug 20 02:19
Diablo-D3and I hate itAug 20 02:19
Diablo-D3and it makes me very angryAug 20 02:19
Diablo-D3and you wouldnt like me angryAug 20 02:20
Will_Diablo-D3 sometimes I think all that money and manpower might be part of their problem.  Big ships don't turn quickly.  And greedy ships tend to get heavy enough to sink.Aug 20 02:21
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Diablo-D3Will_: thats because they dont understand what money isAug 20 02:21
Diablo-D3money is simply a tool to get _more_ moneyAug 20 02:21
Diablo-D3if your boat sinks, you suck at business.Aug 20 02:21
DaemonFCthat's the thing, WMA 10 Pro may be a high quality codec, but since nothing supports it and Microsoft keeps it proprietary, nobody will ever use itAug 20 02:21
DaemonFCWorking on proprietary formats is just a complete waste of timeAug 20 02:22
Diablo-D3exactlyAug 20 02:22
DaemonFCall your work will die when the format flopsAug 20 02:22
Diablo-D3the _only_ way to vendor lock in is to make EVERYONE use itAug 20 02:22
Diablo-D3the only way to make EVERYONE use it is make it free and patent freeAug 20 02:22
cubezzzwell, let's just say the world has room for improvement, Lots of room.Aug 20 02:22
Diablo-D3the only way to crush your competitors is to make them pointless.Aug 20 02:22
Diablo-D3this is fucking business 101Aug 20 02:23
Diablo-D3how the fuck does a 100 billion company fail at thatAug 20 02:23
cubezzzmicrosoft's time is just about overAug 20 02:23
cubezzzevery empire fallsAug 20 02:23
cubezzzsomeone with Ballmer's mentality, it's all about powerAug 20 02:25
cubezzzhe's going to f**king kill google, right? :)Aug 20 02:25
Will_with chairs.Aug 20 02:26
Diablo-D3the only way to fucking kill google is to _be_ googleAug 20 02:26
DaemonFCMoonlight is mainly not spreading because you isntall the damned thing and most sites still demand Silverlight on WindowsAug 20 02:26
Diablo-D3bing is not googleAug 20 02:26
Diablo-D3bing isnt even a good search engineAug 20 02:26
DaemonFCso Moonlight it just wasting space on your hard disk :PAug 20 02:26
DaemonFCBing is what IE 8 defaults to, I switched it back to Google thoughAug 20 02:26
DaemonFCit'll keep Google if that's what you were using in IE 7Aug 20 02:27
Will_I know this goes against Microsoft's DNA, but if they truly open sourced Silverlight and allowed anyone to use it with no strings, it (or a fork of it) might just take off and truly overcome Flash.Aug 20 02:28
DaemonFCI don't think most people realize it, but when you install the K-Lite codec pack, Windows Media Player can play back pretty much any format, but they also replace the MP3 decoder it usesAug 20 02:28
DaemonFCthey swap out the default FhG decoder with libmadAug 20 02:28
DaemonFClower CPU usage while decoding and still ISO compliantAug 20 02:29
cubezzzI'm not even sure what silverlight is supposed to do :)Aug 20 02:29
Diablo-D3manAug 20 02:30
DaemonFCFhG says their decoder is ISO compliant, but I notice my music sounds much more detailed when played by libmad, mpg123, or even Winamp's custom FhG decoderAug 20 02:30
Diablo-D3who the fuck cares about flashAug 20 02:30
Diablo-D3<video> killed flashAug 20 02:30
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DaemonFCWindows Media Player has botched MP3 playback somehow and still claims ISO complianceAug 20 02:30
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: the mp3 spec sucks dick, thats whyAug 20 02:30
DaemonFCthe FhG encoder doesAug 20 02:31
Will_Diablo-D3 that's what I'm hoping for, but Flash is still the big dog.  <video> is just starting.Aug 20 02:31
DaemonFCencoding is not actually completely defined in the ISO spec but decoding is fully documentedAug 20 02:31
Will_And there's Apple etc. that will probably drag there feet with <video> support.Aug 20 02:31
DaemonFCit's trivial to make an MP3 decoder, it's very hard to make a good encoder thoughAug 20 02:31
Will_I'm just hoping FF's widespread use will gradually make <video> into a de facto standard.Aug 20 02:32
DaemonFC<video> will catch on, whether it's Theora or not is the questionAug 20 02:33
DaemonFCI think it's going to be a mess with some people using Theora, some using h.264, and some using WMVAug 20 02:33
Will_The Theora videos I saw looked good enough for Youtube, at least.Aug 20 02:34
DaemonFCI can see IE 9 supporting it but only able to decode WMV by defaultAug 20 02:34
DaemonFCApple only supports h.264Aug 20 02:34
DaemonFCFirefox only supports TheoraAug 20 02:34
DaemonFCit's gonna be a clusterfuck I thinkAug 20 02:34
DaemonFCit will be easier to extend IE 9 to play Theora and h.264 than it will be to extend SafariAug 20 02:35
Will_The nice thing is that there are probably more Firefox users than Apple users.Aug 20 02:35
DaemonFCChrome or Firefox will probably be extendibleAug 20 02:35
DaemonFCI really see it boiling down to h.264 after a protracted format warAug 20 02:35
DaemonFCMicrosoft will push WMV which a few "partner sites" will use, but it won't catch onAug 20 02:36
DaemonFCthe real fight will be Theora and h.264Aug 20 02:36
Will_Characteristically, Apple only supports the patent encumbered standard, Mozilla only supports the open standard, Google supports both, and Microsoft supports neither.Aug 20 02:36
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*DaemonFC slaps Diablo-D3 with the Terminator 2 Extreme Edition DVDAug 20 02:39
DaemonFC:DAug 20 02:39
DaemonFCthe bonus disc has the whole movie in high definition WMVAug 20 02:40
DaemonFCI was thinking that might catch on at one point but that's the only collector's edition box set that ever did thatAug 20 02:40
Diablo-D3I have several blurays with digital versionsAug 20 02:40
Diablo-D3its dumb, I already have the fucking blurayAug 20 02:41
Diablo-D3and Im playing it on a settop playerAug 20 02:41
DaemonFCthe Blu Ray itself is MPEG-2Aug 20 02:41
DaemonFCand AACAug 20 02:41
DaemonFCusuallyAug 20 02:41
DaemonFConce you get past the billion layers of encryption and watermarkingAug 20 02:41
Diablo-D3bzztAug 20 02:41
Diablo-D3bluray is h264Aug 20 02:42
DaemonFCno it's notAug 20 02:42
Diablo-D3and usually not aacAug 20 02:42
Diablo-D3lol yes it isAug 20 02:42
DaemonFCit supports that, but few discs use itAug 20 02:42
Diablo-D3most dics use itAug 20 02:42
DaemonFCmost discs still use MPEG-2Aug 20 02:42
Diablo-D3very few use the alternative: vc-1Aug 20 02:42
Diablo-D3most discs also do not use aacAug 20 02:42
DaemonFCVC-1 is also supported, I've never seen one use itAug 20 02:42
Diablo-D3they use either raw PCM, DTS, or AC3Aug 20 02:42
Diablo-D3(or one of the replacements for DTS and AC3)Aug 20 02:43
DaemonFCraw PCM would be preferableAug 20 02:43
Diablo-D3its problematic for digital transmissionAug 20 02:43
DaemonFCminimal CPU expense, high quality, uses a lot of space but the disc has the spaceAug 20 02:43
Diablo-D3only HDMI has enough bandwidthAug 20 02:43
Diablo-D3Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are also losslessAug 20 02:43
DaemonFClossless compression? Yeah, I was going to ask about thatAug 20 02:44
Diablo-D3yeahAug 20 02:44
DaemonFCall the benefits of PCM without the huge waste of spaceAug 20 02:44
DaemonFCdecoding complexity varies though, FLAC has hardly any overheadAug 20 02:44
Diablo-D3well, its not like they have to worry about spaceAug 20 02:44
Diablo-D325GB discAug 20 02:45
DaemonFC25 gigs would hold about 41 hours of CD quality PCM audioAug 20 02:46
DaemonFCperhaps 60-65 hours as FLACAug 20 02:46
Diablo-D3yeah, but we're storing a movieAug 20 02:46
DaemonFCrightAug 20 02:47
DaemonFC2.5 hours as CD quality PCM would be about 1.5 gigsAug 20 02:47
DaemonFCyou'd have 23.5 gigs left for the videoAug 20 02:47
Diablo-D3yupAug 20 02:47
Diablo-D3and BD maxes out at like 50mbit/sec on 1xAug 20 02:47
DaemonFCthe reason I'd use lossless compression anyway is because then I could devote a higher bitrate to the videoAug 20 02:48
DaemonFChave your cake and eat it too :)Aug 20 02:48
Diablo-D3wellAug 20 02:48
Diablo-D3many discs use something better than AC3 and DTSAug 20 02:48
Diablo-D3it doesn't have to be lossless, it just has to not suckAug 20 02:48
DaemonFCyou use lossless compression, you'd have about 500 more megs available for the video trackAug 20 02:48
Diablo-D3btw, you're not entirely correctAug 20 02:49
Diablo-D3movies can very easily use 24bit 192khz across 8 channelsAug 20 02:49
DaemonFCgives you 455 kbps more to dedicate to the videoAug 20 02:49
DaemonFCso quite a quality improvementAug 20 02:50
Diablo-D3thats 36mbit/sec of audio losslessAug 20 02:50
DaemonFC2 channel 44.1 Khz 16-bit would leave most people happyAug 20 02:51
Diablo-D3its a movie.Aug 20 02:51
Diablo-D3virtually all new movies are in 5.1 or 7.1Aug 20 02:51
DaemonFCnot people who spend $5,000 on their setup though :DAug 20 02:51
DaemonFCthe kind of people with that kind of money to spend on toys are always your pickiest customersAug 20 02:51
Diablo-D3not reallyAug 20 02:52
DaemonFCthat's why Microsoft was trying to get into the high end A/V business by "standardizing" Windows Media for HD-DVDAug 20 02:53
DaemonFCit was obvious that HD-DVD was going nowhere when all the video games and porn was on blu rayAug 20 02:53
Diablo-D3that standardized windows media is vc-1Aug 20 02:53
Diablo-D3which is on bluraysAug 20 02:53
DaemonFCthen Microsoft releases this stupid enormous add-on player for the 360 that costs another $200Aug 20 02:54
DaemonFCyeah, not so much :PAug 20 02:54
DaemonFCyeah, but Microsoft isn't getting the royalties they wanted if nobody is encoding their discs with itAug 20 02:55
Diablo-D3at any rate, I'd be perfectly happy with a truehd or dts-hd ma trackAug 20 02:55
DaemonFCthey get the royalties for the player being able to decode it, but that'Aug 20 02:55
DaemonFCthat's peanutsAug 20 02:55
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: wellAug 20 02:55
Diablo-D3most blurays dont have vc-1Aug 20 02:55
DaemonFCthey also wanted a cut of every disc sold using itAug 20 02:55
DaemonFCwhich they aren't gettingAug 20 02:55
Diablo-D3out of all the blurays I have, I only have oneAug 20 02:55
DaemonFCand that was 90% of their profit potentialAug 20 02:55
Diablo-D3vc-1 is inferior to h264Aug 20 02:56
DaemonFCMicrosoft will be doing good to break even with their VC-1 development costsAug 20 02:56
DaemonFCin player royalties and all three movies that use it :DAug 20 02:56
Diablo-D3vc-1 technologically is half way between h264 and mpeg4Aug 20 02:56
Diablo-D3so its kinda pointlessAug 20 02:56
Diablo-D3and I bet there are bluray players that dont play it backAug 20 02:56
Diablo-D3no one would ever knowAug 20 02:57
DaemonFCI think you have to support it to have a certified playerAug 20 02:57
DaemonFCeven though only a couple discs use itAug 20 02:58
Diablo-D3yeah, but how many chinese knockoffs dont have it? ;)Aug 20 02:58
DaemonFCVC-1 is the $20,000 toilet seat on every blu ray playerAug 20 02:58
DaemonFCDVD isn't going anywhere anytime soonAug 20 02:59
DaemonFCthey're dirt cheap and so are the playersAug 20 02:59
DaemonFCa DVD is something on the order of 2.5 times better resolution vs an ideal VHS tape, right?Aug 20 03:00
Diablo-D3not quiteAug 20 03:00
DaemonFCand Blu Ray discs are only about 50% (0.5 times) better than DVDAug 20 03:00
Diablo-D3VHS has the same "resolution"Aug 20 03:00
Diablo-D3depending on how hard you bullshit resolutionAug 20 03:01
DaemonFCVHS only has 210 horizontal lines of resolutionAug 20 03:01
DaemonFCall DVDs have 480Aug 20 03:01
DaemonFCa Blu Ray is only required to have 720Aug 20 03:01
Diablo-D3bluray is required to do 1080Aug 20 03:01
DaemonFCand only 576 if you aren't using the encrypted HDCP linkAug 20 03:01
DaemonFCthe 1080 resolution is an upscaled resolution on most discsAug 20 03:02
DaemonFCbut yeah, the player supports native 1080 resolution if that's how the disc is masteredAug 20 03:02
Diablo-D3dude, where the fuck do you get this shitAug 20 03:02
DaemonFCthat's also how these "high definition" video games are lying to customersAug 20 03:03
Diablo-D3most modern films were filmed, recorded, or rendered in 1080 or higherAug 20 03:03
DaemonFCthe textures aren't that high a resolution, the console jsut stretches them to fitAug 20 03:03
Diablo-D3remastered films are rescanned from the original negatives at muuuuuuuuuch higher 1080Aug 20 03:03
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: not quiteAug 20 03:03
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Diablo-D3they use a sub buffer to renderAug 20 03:03
DaemonFCHalo 3 was only like 640pAug 20 03:03
DaemonFCthe console upscales itAug 20 03:03
Diablo-D3which is largely a nonissueAug 20 03:03
Diablo-D3it renders the hud at whatever your native res isAug 20 03:04
Diablo-D3(its just a simple render to texture trick)Aug 20 03:04
DaemonFCthe XBOX 360 tends to choke if you have texture resolutions that are realyl that highAug 20 03:04
Diablo-D3lolnoAug 20 03:04
DaemonFCit starts dropping framesAug 20 03:04
Diablo-D3the hardware handles 8192x8192 textures fineAug 20 03:04
Diablo-D3its just largely a wasteAug 20 03:04
*Diablo-D3 does 3D programming, remember?Aug 20 03:04
DaemonFCyeah, it can't process at 30 fps though, so the framerate drops when it has to render a lot of detailed texturesAug 20 03:05
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Diablo-D3its a common trick to lower the actual resolution of non-HUD renderingsAug 20 03:05
DaemonFCto play through a first person shooter, you're going to need a stable framerate of at least 25 gps to be playableAug 20 03:05
Diablo-D3s/25/60/Aug 20 03:05
DaemonFCthe 360 often dips way below thatAug 20 03:05
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DaemonFC*fpsAug 20 03:05
Diablo-D3this is also why consoles arent useful for FPSAug 20 03:05
Diablo-D3not enough horsepowerAug 20 03:06
DaemonFCit's nowhere near powerful enough to run the kind of games they sell for itAug 20 03:06
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: wellAug 20 03:06
Diablo-D3it depends how they fudge itAug 20 03:06
DaemonFCso the first batch of games lagged and the later games started just upscaling lower quality texturesAug 20 03:06
Diablo-D3I could very easily design an engine that runs on anythingAug 20 03:06
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: dudeAug 20 03:06
Diablo-D3stop saying bullshitAug 20 03:06
Diablo-D3"upscaling lower quality textures"Aug 20 03:06
Diablo-D3that has nothing to do with the rendering resolutionAug 20 03:06
DaemonFCplay Quake 4 on it, then Halo 3Aug 20 03:07
Diablo-D3you can use 64x64 textures and still have a 1920x1080 gameAug 20 03:07
Diablo-D3one has nothing to do with the otherAug 20 03:07
DaemonFCHalo 3 is lower resolution and the system upscales it, that's why it doesn't drop framesAug 20 03:07
Diablo-D3yes, halo 3 uses a very common trickAug 20 03:07
Diablo-D3it doesn't even have to be fixedAug 20 03:07
Diablo-D3it can change when it needs toAug 20 03:07
DaemonFCthat's why I'm saying, they really market the XBOX 360 as being more capable than it isAug 20 03:08
DaemonFCOblivion also kills itAug 20 03:08
DaemonFCbut runs fine on the PS3Aug 20 03:08
Diablo-D3the ps3 is rather shitty tooAug 20 03:08
DaemonFCit seems to handle multithreading a lot betterAug 20 03:09
Diablo-D3but you're missing the pointAug 20 03:09
Diablo-D3they're advertising that it outputs 1080pAug 20 03:09
Diablo-D3it doesAug 20 03:09
DaemonFCOblivion uses threading quite extensivelyAug 20 03:09
DaemonFCyou really can't have too many stream processorsAug 20 03:09
Diablo-D3upscaling the rendering and then slapping the hud on that is not even a lieAug 20 03:09
DaemonFCthat's why the XBOX 360 theoretically has a more powerful CPU  but you hit its threading limit much soonerAug 20 03:10
Diablo-D3its just how the game works.Aug 20 03:10
DaemonFCso it really doesn't matterAug 20 03:10
Diablo-D3the xbox 360 does not have a more powerful CPUAug 20 03:10
Diablo-D3by any stretch of the imaginationAug 20 03:10
DaemonFCthen you have a lot of bad PC ports on the 360, that were never really optimized for the 360Aug 20 03:10
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: anyhow, if you wanna keep arguing this, I suspect you bone up on it firstAug 20 03:11
Diablo-D3because you just look like a troll atmAug 20 03:11
DaemonFCthey flood the market with bad titlesAug 20 03:11
DaemonFCit's just like the last XBOXAug 20 03:12
Diablo-D3thats the entire game industryAug 20 03:12
Diablo-D3why blame it on the xbox?Aug 20 03:12
DaemonFCthey only have a good quarter when there's a new Halo game outAug 20 03:12
Diablo-D3halo isnt even a good gameAug 20 03:12
Diablo-D3its rather shitty and boringAug 20 03:12
DaemonFCit was more passable than the rest of the crap on the original XBOXAug 20 03:12
DaemonFCso people bought it looking for some relief from the bad PC portsAug 20 03:13
DaemonFClook at the first year of games on the original XBOX, that's why Halo sold like it didAug 20 03:14
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Diablo-D3DaemonFC: I dont play games that way, anyhowAug 20 03:20
Diablo-D3its largely pointlessAug 20 03:20
DaemonFC 20 03:35
DaemonFCOS X Snow Leopard still isn't a true 64-bit OSAug 20 03:35
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DaemonFCSony is launching a much smaller PS3 with 120 gig hard disk for $300Aug 20 03:50
DaemonFChmmmAug 20 03:51
DaemonFCthe new model can't run LinuxAug 20 03:51
DaemonFC 20 03:53
DaemonFCPS3 Slim Ditches Backward Compatibility, Linux SupportAug 20 03:53
DaemonFC 20 03:54
DaemonFCWhy was the ability to install Linux removed from the system?Aug 20 03:55
DaemonFC"There are a couple of reasons. We felt we wanted to move forward with the OS we have now. If anyone wants to use previous models and change the OS, they can do so." Koller said. "We wanted to standardize our OS."Aug 20 03:55
DaemonFCschestowitz, sound fishy?Aug 20 03:55
DaemonFCthis could have something to do with people documenting how to use Linux to rip Blu Ray moviesAug 20 03:55
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seller_liarhey royAug 20 04:14
seller_liarSemant wiki plugin can help you in court ehxibtsAug 20 04:14
seller_liar 20 04:14
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DaemonFCno, I'm not happy with Sony's decision to ax Linux support from the PS3 at allAug 20 05:17
DaemonFCI had considered buying one after the hardware revisionAug 20 05:17
DaemonFCI've been in the market for something to replace this huge hulking Windows PC for quite a while and I can't find anything that's small and runs quiet that isn't totally underpowered or overpricedAug 20 05:18
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DaemonFCI found the blog of one of the Windows Live Essentials people and commented on itAug 20 06:04
DaemonFC"For some time now, the Windows Live Essentials installer will fail on Windows XP x64 Edition claiming that XP x64 is not a compatible OS or stating that you need Windows XP SP2 or higher."Aug 20 06:05
DaemonFC"I've been installing the MSI files directly and have been running both Messenger and Mail without any trouble at all. So my question is "Why the subterfuge?" Why is Microsoft telling XP x64 and Windows 2003 users to get lost when the thing obviously works and they're using some bogus operating system check to keep it from installing? Although the error was at least kind enough to give the binary offset where the alleged "Aug 20 06:05
DaemonFCerror" occurs, if you catch my drift..."Aug 20 06:05
DaemonFCheheAug 20 06:05
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neighborleeto pay for devleopment costs I guess :)Aug 20 06:21
neighborleeoh and its purdyAug 20 06:21
neighborlee:)Aug 20 06:21
DaemonFCThe Vista-ish layout is quite disturbing on XPAug 20 06:26
neighborleeI actuallly do like aero but I could easily live without it ,,unlesss it has features I dont know about, its nothing special when compared to compizAug 20 06:31
DaemonFCI'm repackaging the parts that work in XP x64 and Windows 2003Aug 20 06:33
DaemonFCand I'm gonna make a torrent of themAug 20 06:33
DaemonFCMessenger, Mail, Writer, Call, and Photo Gallery workAug 20 06:34
DaemonFCMovie Maker and Family Safety don't :PAug 20 06:34
schestowitzMore Time Warner Content Heading To YouTube < >Aug 20 06:56
DaemonFCschestowitz, are you going to comment on the Sony dropping Linux thing?Aug 20 06:58
DaemonFCit makes me kind of mad because the hardware is still obviously capable, they've jsut removed the option from their system softwareAug 20 06:59
DaemonFCI've speculated that their motivation could be coming from the people using the Linux environment to rip their blu ray moviesAug 20 06:59
DaemonFCbut Sony is a lot closer to Microsoft than it looks, in their PC division anywayAug 20 07:00
DaemonFCThey've always pushed the latest version of Windows exclusively on the VaioAug 20 07:00
DaemonFC 20 07:09
DaemonFCPC World is not spreading the misconception that Windows 7 is good enough for systems that shipped with XPAug 20 07:10
DaemonFC*nowAug 20 07:10
DaemonFC"Also, Windows 7 continues Microsoft's legendary backward compatibility for applications."Aug 20 07:11
DaemonFCwould that be like XP where about half your 9x software didn't work til 2 years of compatibility updates later or like Vista where iTunes refused to play your purchased songs for the first month?Aug 20 07:12
DaemonFCpeople have short memories, by the time all their stuff works with the new version of Windows it's because they're running new versions of the program or given up on it ever working againAug 20 07:12
schestowitzThere's going to be a campaign against Vista 7Aug 20 07:27
DaemonFCI don't get how PC World wirtes "Windows 7 sucks" articles followed by "Windows 7 is the second coming" articlesAug 20 07:29
DaemonFCone of their editors even told the truth about how poorly it runs on older computers and netbooks and then this guy writes how someone supposedly got it to run on a "circa-1997" systemAug 20 07:30
DaemonFCyou have to disable all the features that Microsoft is making a fuss about just to get it to work at all on a netbookAug 20 07:30
DaemonFCthat includes Windows AeroAug 20 07:31
DaemonFCAero is another bag of worms entirely, it's pretty until you run a "legacy" app that uses GDI+ and DirectX in the same window and then Windows flips Aero offAug 20 07:32
DaemonFCit's like being slapped in the face when that happens, and you can't just turn Aero off because then you get screen tearing and other problemsAug 20 07:33
DaemonFCthe screen tearing is much worse than it ever was in XPAug 20 07:33
DaemonFCthe way they implemented Aero kind of makes you want XP back all by itselfAug 20 07:34
DaemonFCthe paid reviewers make sure ahead of time that they never show that happeningAug 20 07:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Novell UK Channel Chief Leaves 20 07:38
schestowitzTHe Editor of PC World got a laptop from MicrosoftAug 20 07:38
schestowitzVista 7 eventAug 20 07:38
schestowitzYardana ArarAug 20 07:38
schestowitz*enaAug 20 07:39
DaemonFCI don't think they'll ever have another system that sells like XPAug 20 07:44
DaemonFCthey're having to put more and more money towards selling less and less copiesAug 20 07:45
DaemonFCMicrosoft wants to see a steady flow of Windows sales, and they always have, but Vista was the turd that got caught in the pipeAug 20 07:47
DaemonFCschestowitz, looks like The Pirate Bay is finally cookedAug 20 07:51
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schestowitzXP is rubbishAug 20 08:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mozilla Complains About Microsoft’s Continued Discrimination Against Rival Web Browsers 20 08:14
schestowitzIt's an embarrassment that much of it existsAug 20 08:14
schestowitzIt's not even being soldAug 20 08:14
schestowitzPCs are saddled with itAug 20 08:14
schestowitz"...another system that sells like XP"Aug 20 08:15
schestowitzRubbishAug 20 08:15
schestowitzIt's 'sold' to OEMs under pressureAug 20 08:15
DaemonFC"But it's OK when OUR browser is foisted on Linux users and the entire help system depends on it"Aug 20 08:19
DaemonFCthe other half of that argumentAug 20 08:19
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schestowitzDaemonFC: spinnerAug 20 08:47
schestowitzDaemonFC: learn about NetscapeAug 20 08:47
schestowitzIt's not about fairness as much as it is a punishment for feloniesAug 20 08:47
DaemonFCThe Xulrunner crap is just another way to bulldoze Mozilla's competition on LinuxAug 20 08:47
DaemonFCand thankfully, GNOME is finally cutting their ties to itAug 20 08:48
schestowitzHad Mozilla forced Linux distros (Canonical, Red Hat, etc.) to preinstall Firefox everywhere and bribed them for it, then action against it would be justifiedAug 20 08:48
schestowitzend of story on this one.Aug 20 08:48
DaemonFCKDE never depended on it in the first placeAug 20 08:48
DaemonFCeventually yelp will depend on Webkit and Firefox will just be any other browser that doesn't take half your system with it if you get rid of itAug 20 08:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Havent had much time at all for IT related issues! What a week! Have Sunday and Monday off so Ill have some time then.Aug 20 08:49
DaemonFCGNOME mentioned that depending on Xulrunner for their help system and for Epiphany was bad because Mozilla doesn't schedule Gecko updates around GNOME, they update it when Firefox gets updatedAug 20 08:50
DaemonFCWebkit can easily be built precisely whenever you want it, and isn't heavily tied to any browserAug 20 08:51
DaemonFCso they can finally get a decent engine for Epiphany and stop trying to fit a square peg into the round holeAug 20 08:53
DaemonFCAs I understand it, a lot of the aggravation in using Epiphany is the result of limitations in Gecko, that stuff goes way over my head so I'm not going to pretend to understand all of it, but that was my answer when I asked them why Epiphany can't be made to open pop ups in tabs rather than new browser windowsAug 20 08:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Did Microsoft Pay Fraunhofer for Report on OOXML? 20 08:56
DaemonFCso clearly the GNOME developers haven't made any great secret of their Gecko and Xulrunner frustrationAug 20 08:56
DaemonFCand after they finally weed it out of their desktop, distros are still quite free to bundle Firefox, everyone is happy :)Aug 20 08:57
schestowitzThey are not pressured toAug 20 08:58
schestowitzEnd of story. I know you'll spin this. It's about crimes from the 90sAug 20 08:58
DaemonFCwhich are being replayed quite nicelyAug 20 08:59
DaemonFCbut you're right, they can't force a distribution to do anything which I feel is making it more difficult to embed Firefox deeply into every Linux desktopAug 20 09:00
DaemonFCthis Gecko constipation  is going to sort itself out way before it could be a huge problem for usersAug 20 09:01
DaemonFCtheir goal is to get Firefox on desktops by hook or by crook and that's why it has been known to piggyback in on unrelated Windows freewareAug 20 09:02
DaemonFCjust like IE tagged along on every ISP setup disc in the 90sAug 20 09:02
DaemonFCI really hate seeing unrelated items trying to sneak in on top of other things I'm trying to install, Adobe PDF Reader was trying to get you to install Firefox evenAug 20 09:05
DaemonFCthe ideal of spreading software in such a manner is that you're hoping to bag a clueless user that was hammering on the "next" button all the way through setting up another application, then Firefox has another "user" maybe, the advertising company they used gets another dollar, and next time you go to install Adobe PDF reader, it's 3 screens of software they heckle you withAug 20 09:16
DaemonFC*ideaAug 20 09:16
DaemonFCI actually was opposed to this practice of "bundling" a long time before legitimate applications started doing it, this was the kind of crap that Kazaa would do to a userAug 20 09:18
schestowitz"You don't have permission to access / on this server." 20 09:18
schestowitzHM..........Aug 20 09:18
DaemonFCAdditionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.Aug 20 09:19
DaemonFCgroovyAug 20 09:19
DaemonFCYou are not authorized to view the error messageAug 20 09:19
DaemonFCthe error message has been G-15 classifiedAug 20 09:20
DaemonFCthey could show you the error message, but then they'd hve to kill youAug 20 09:20
DaemonFC404: Microsoft had a patent on our error messageAug 20 09:22
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DaemonFCClamWin is some seriously bad stuffAug 20 09:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] WIPO: By the Elites, for the Elites 20 09:43
schestowitzTerrell Owens gets his 2009 apologies out of the way <,172666 > Hates VIsta.Aug 20 09:44
DaemonFCschestowitz, I do find it interesting that this essay doesn't mention that there's plenty of freeware antivirus programs out thereAug 20 09:44
DaemonFC 20 09:44
DaemonFChow does Avast make money if they just give you their program?Aug 20 09:45
DaemonFCI know they have a version with more advanced adminsitrative functions that they sell to businessesAug 20 09:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft’s Phone market share not significant, and shrinking! < >Aug 20 09:46
schestowitzBesieged by attacks, AT&T dumps celebrity hacker < >Aug 20 09:46
schestowitzHmmmm..... 20 09:48
schestowitzThey seem to be sort of promoting Microsoft now, thoughAug 20 09:48
schestowitz 20 09:48
DaemonFC"Spam messages offering links to a tool designed to knock out the website of President Obama lead only to dodgy software."Aug 20 09:52
DaemonFChehAug 20 09:52
DaemonFCI like it, spam that only a Republican would be stupid enough to click on and be pwnedAug 20 09:52
DaemonFCthey should have invented it years agoAug 20 09:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Continuing Cheapening of the Word "Terrorism" 20 09:53
DaemonFCschestowitz, as long as all it does is steal their bank account information and credit cards, I wouldn't careAug 20 09:54
DaemonFCI might actually find it funnyAug 20 09:54
DaemonFCbut turning their systems into zombie spam relays is something that everyone has to deal withAug 20 09:55
DaemonFCof course if it's directed at a Republican, their system was already a spam relay oeprated by a zombieAug 20 09:55
DaemonFCso this just makes it fasterAug 20 09:55
DaemonFC 20 09:59
DaemonFChmmmAug 20 10:00
schestowitz UK games market being 'strangled' < >Aug 20 10:03
schestowitzIDC - pay to sayAug 20 10:03
schestowitzTHey should be treated like marketing whoresAug 20 10:03
DaemonFCthe video game industry is strangling itselfAug 20 10:04
schestowitzTexas judge on trial for mishandling execution 20 10:05
schestowitzDaemonFC: let the gaming industry reinvent itselfAug 20 10:06
schestowitzSome say that it lacks creativity, jono bacon disagrees.Aug 20 10:06
DaemonFCthey already didAug 20 10:06
schestowitzWith DRMAug 20 10:06
DaemonFCit could be summed up as "Do you want a little game with your SecuROM?"Aug 20 10:06
schestowitzI.e. games you can play today but not when you grow up. Buh-bye nostalgiaAug 20 10:06
schestowitz The Best of TeleSUR? 20 10:07
schestowitzCash-Roots, Manufactured Anger, and Hot Air over Health Care < >. This is why your healthcare system is kaputAug 20 10:08
schestowitzWanna fix your system? For starter, arrest lobbyistsAug 20 10:08
schestowitz*trsAug 20 10:08
DaemonFCarrest the Republicans and shoot the lobbyistsAug 20 10:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Meet the people who use AstroTurf to destroy this planet for everyone 20 10:10
schestowitzDaemonFC: don't shoot anyoneAug 20 10:11
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schestowitzYou're polluting this channel with threatsAug 20 10:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More new examples of the anti-environment astroturf: ("More Pollution of the Climate Debate")Aug 20 10:11
schestowitzIt's acceptable to say that Bush needs to be trialedAug 20 10:11
schestowitz*trialled Aug 20 10:11
DaemonFCa threat is something a reasonable person would have reason to think you'd doAug 20 10:12
DaemonFCa sarcastic remark is what I madeAug 20 10:12
schestowitzPR: War by Other Means < PR: War by Other Means >Aug 20 10:12
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schestowitzInnocent Man Freed, But Shabby Prosecutor Still Works as Judge 20 10:21
schestowitzTHis one's a load of bollox. Is radio suppressing pro-Performance Rights Act artists? < >Aug 20 10:24
schestowitzContinued attempts to use radio for propagandaAug 20 10:24
oiaohmOk most critical question is who edited the video with the Prosecutor.Aug 20 10:25
oiaohmIt would not be the first time that police investagators have been caught editing videos to hide there misconduct from Prosecutor who would be forced to act against them by lay.Aug 20 10:26
oiaohmlay/lawAug 20 10:26
DaemonFCbetter question is who listens to the radioAug 20 10:26
schestowitz [img]Aug 20 10:27
schestowitzDaemonFC: driversAug 20 10:27
oiaohmPeople driving cars DaemonFCAug 20 10:27
oiaohmTurns out radio is one of the most effective sales medias.Aug 20 10:27
DaemonFCI don't listen to over the air broadcastsAug 20 10:27
oiaohmIts more effective than tv because you get people travelling.Aug 20 10:28
oiaohmMost common radio listerned to in big cities are ones providing traffic reports so people can re route on fly and get home sooner.Aug 20 10:28
schestowitzEU's exploding-iPhone investigation heats up < >Aug 20 10:29
oiaohmI guess out side a big city so listening to radio has no productive gain for you DaemonFCAug 20 10:29
DaemonFCno, there's plenty of stations hereAug 20 10:30
DaemonFCjust another dying formatAug 20 10:30
DaemonFCtoo much advertising, too much crap, old technologyAug 20 10:30
schestowitz BitTorrent and P2P Banned in Antartica 20 10:31
schestowitzThat'll show those 'pirates'Aug 20 10:31
oiaohmHmmAug 20 10:32
DaemonFC"Indeed, P2P applications are not the real threat, its users are. If someone is stupid enough to put confidential information in their shared folder, he or she is likely to make even worse mistakes."Aug 20 10:32
DaemonFCI've said that beforeAug 20 10:32
oiaohmP2P does cause more traffic usage.Aug 20 10:33
oiaohmIe Antartica does have a limited bandwidth connection.Aug 20 10:33
schestowitzUstream Sued by Square Ring for Copyright Infringement Aug 20 10:33
schestowitz 20 10:33
oiaohmSo the antartica ban is pure network pracitical.Aug 20 10:34
schestowitzoiaohm: YouTube can take up moreAug 20 10:34
oiaohmYouTube squid caches.Aug 20 10:36
oiaohmNot really a major network problem.Aug 20 10:36
schestowitzSpace-fillers and myths... 20 10:36
oiaohmAlso since YouTube is squid controllable you can quota out usage very simply.Aug 20 10:36
oiaohmp2p ban is pure pratical.Aug 20 10:38
oiaohmIts also that lot of p2p is encrypted so it cannot be scanned in route either.Aug 20 10:38
schestowitzWhy have encryption at all?Aug 20 10:49
schestowitz /sarcasmAug 20 10:49
schestowitzThat's not the issueAug 20 10:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Spammers start using ukgovoss already, that didn't take long. 20 10:49
schestowitzBut yes, I did know all along that bandwidth was most like Antarctica's rationaleAug 20 10:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @popey: the ODF Web site tooAug 20 10:51
schestowitz "After logging in, Simplify Photo for iPhone ($0.99) talks to the Simplify Media application on your desktop (download for Windows | Mac | Ubuntu)."Aug 20 10:52
schestowitzLinux is called "Ubuntu" now?Aug 20 10:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] HT @polljack Should taxpayers fund a transgender police support group? Vote Yes in the Daily Mail's important poll: 20 10:55
oiaohmschestowitz: lot of p2p people encrypted so people cannot see what is being downloaded.Aug 20 10:59
schestowitzA lot of people swap storage devicesAug 20 10:59
schestowitzThis notion of stopping sharing of 0s and 1s is misguidedAug 20 11:00
oiaohmschestowitz: no Simplify Media only provides ubuntu packages.Aug 20 11:00
schestowitzIt's Luddite-likeAug 20 11:00
oiaohmSwaping storage devices don't cause network traffic issues.Aug 20 11:00
schestowitzSome people move on to other business modelsAug 20 11:00
schestowitzAnd software patents won't work eitherAug 20 11:00
oiaohmAlso with antartica its a little hard to sneek storage devices in.Aug 20 11:00
schestowitzoiaohm: I thought it might be the case. But if it's .deb, it might be fine for other distrosAug 20 11:01
schestowitzoiaohm: speaking generally though, not the distant continentAug 20 11:01
schestowitz "Price $ 4,500.00"Aug 20 11:03
schestowitzHaha.Aug 20 11:03
schestowitzWho paid for this so-called study anyway/Aug 20 11:03
schestowitzWe need to find the contradictions..Aug 20 11:04 show that they swing both ways to the tune of the moneyAug 20 11:04
oiaohmThe might is the question schestowitzAug 20 11:05
schestowitzRequires lots of work thoughAug 20 11:08
schestowitzObsessiveness a mustAug 20 11:09
schestowitzEver heard of this? 20 11:12
schestowitz 20 11:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat 'pleased' to be top Linux contributor 20 11:42
schestowitz 20 11:55
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Linux distro will make people very happy 20 12:07
schestowitzLots of goof Linux news today,...Aug 20 12:14
schestowitz 20 12:14
schestowitz "It seems to me Mono is the Twisted Hanna Montana Linux of development platforms."Aug 20 12:16
schestowitzExample of misuse of the "open source" term: 20 12:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz: LOL Canabix :-) gives a fuzzy "Good old SuSE green" feeling.Aug 20 12:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Wow, impressive XBMC theme/skin thingy. Short video trailer.. 20 12:37
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] WWW != Internet "So far they've already signed some big names, including the daddy of the internet: Tim Berners-Lee." 20 12:54
schestowitzHere is the FUD-triangle (Forrester, IDC, Gartner) uses to throw mud at FOSS: 20 12:55
DaemonFCI may try out a few more of the BSDs in Virtual BoxAug 20 13:09
DaemonFCI've been consistently impressed by FreeBSD and PC-BSDAug 20 13:09
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Ngschestowitz: why is the disa thing a misuse of the open source term?Aug 20 13:18
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Ng(I'm just curious, I only skimmed the article and didn't see anything obvious)Aug 20 13:18
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE Has New Accounting Application Go ahead, post a link. We'll convert it to a shoAug 20 13:30
schestowitzNg: It's "open-source"Aug 20 13:33
schestowitzLike 'inspire by'Aug 20 13:34
Ngschestowitz: it seemed like it was being released under an OSI approved licence?Aug 20 13:34
schestowitz'open source intelligenceAug 20 13:34
schestowitzNg: I follow the links, couldn't find itAug 20 13:34
Ng"OSSI holds the copyright and offers OSCMIS, under version 3 of the Open Source License."Aug 20 13:35
NgOSL is OSI approved afaicsAug 20 13:35
schestowitzMaybe I followed the wrong linksAug 20 13:35
*Ng shrugs, perhaps there is deeper mystery that I missedAug 20 13:35
schestowitzThanks. I'll have another lookAug 20 13:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mandriva Linux Dabbles in Plymouth 20 13:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gordux GNU/Linux is Released 20 13:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] First Pictures of Maemo 5 (Nokia's Linux Platform) 20 13:49
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Ready to Capitalise on Microsoft's Failure in Phones 20 13:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ideas for GNU/Linux on Sub-notebooks 20 13:55
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mozilla Helps with Afrobotics 20 13:58
DaemonFChmmmAug 20 14:04
DaemonFCBing SharpAug 20 14:04
DaemonFCicckthAug 20 14:04
DaemonFC 20 14:04
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schestowitzThey cheatAug 20 14:08
schestowitzFake figuresAug 20 14:08
schestowitzPost about it on its wayAug 20 14:08
DaemonFCPeerguardian got enough donation money to afford a driver signatureAug 20 14:10
DaemonFC 20 14:10
DaemonFC 20 14:12
DaemonFC$430 to Microsoft to get their driver signedAug 20 14:12
DaemonFCand that's per yearAug 20 14:13
DaemonFCplus the cost of establishing an "organization" so you're eligible to buy the signingAug 20 14:13
DaemonFCoh I read that wrongAug 20 14:14
DaemonFCit will cost $430 to set up the organization and $500 a year to MicrosoftAug 20 14:14
*DaemonFC is getting tiredAug 20 14:14
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Tux Radar Shows How Easy Linux Programming is with Qt 20 14:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Firefox Plugin Exposes Legal Injustices 20 14:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Peer to Peer Economy Seen as Beneficial to Progress 20 14:28
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Twitter at Risk Due to Intellectual Monopolies 20 14:34
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Corruption Found in the USPTO (Monopolies Office) 20 14:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Still Sabotages GNU/Linux Installations 20 14:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ODF Support Grows (JDBReport and Storyist Latest Addition) 20 14:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Vector Found for Windows Viruses 20 14:40
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schestowitzBoring.. 20 15:02
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schestowitzbbl. Sunny outside, was pouring earlier...Aug 20 15:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @tiagomanco: Para quem se queixa do máximo de 140 caracteres no twitter, experimentem o com mínimo de 1400 charsAug 20 15:53
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trmanco -> macrobloggingAug 20 15:54
seller_liarhey royAug 20 15:54
seller_liarinstall semantic mediawiki plugin for help you in court ehxibitsAug 20 15:54
seller_liarit does not need to restart nothingAug 20 15:55
seller_liaronly install and wiki turns into a semantic wikiAug 20 15:55
seller_liarthe plugin does not alter nothingAug 20 15:55
seller_liar 20 15:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] RT @eWEEKNews Microsoft Sued Again Over Patents in Texas 20 16:00
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trmanco 20 16:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Health Check: Mono: 20 16:34
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trmancotwitter 503Aug 20 16:57
trmanco...Aug 20 16:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Study says plastic decomposes at sea: 20 17:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Giant Plant Eats Rodents: 20 17:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Linux to become a billion dollar business: 20 17:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @physorg_com 5 ways to strengthen your brain 20 17:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] heh, Twitter was unavailable for a while...Aug 20 17:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Snow Leopard Seeds Use 32bit Kernel, Drivers by Default: 20 17:14
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♺ @maistrafego: Divulga aos teus amigos - Último dia para submeter o teu blog no maior passatempo da blogoesfera -> 20 17:17
tessier 20 17:18
tessierSounds like a great big single point of failure which needs to be addressed.Aug 20 17:18
tessierWow. 54% failure rate for X-Box? Holy shit. They are losing a fortune.Aug 20 17:34
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neighborleetessier, yeah and ps3 is $100 less now at $299Aug 20 17:55
neighborlee80gb versionAug 20 17:55
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schestowitzSecond-hand smoking kills 60-80k people in the US per year: Direct impact, 600k fatalities/year. Wow.Aug 20 18:46
schestowitztessier: yes, round $6 bl in losses afaikAug 20 18:51
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schestowitzBeer drinking model to get caned in Malaysia < >Aug 20 19:05
tessierschestowitz: Well I hope they keep it up! :) Go X-Box! :)Aug 20 19:06
schestowitzBallmer is like a frat boy... he just wants to sell more.Aug 20 19:07
schestowitzIt's not good business sense and last year he called XBox a "funny product" because they can't figure out how to make it profitable. Same was said about Zune at the time...Aug 20 19:08
schestowitzneighborlee: Health Check: Mono - Too much monkey business? < >Aug 20 19:15
schestowitzGood that Heise published this. Richard never was a fan of Mono. Good articleAug 20 19:15
schestowitzSpeak Out on (Canadian) Copyright < >Aug 20 19:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Has Larry Lessig reached 'blog fatigue? 20 19:23
neighborlee"  and released an 'extended' version of the JVM for Windows, which resulted in the writing of Java apps that would work on Windows but not on other platforms, in Internet Explorer but not in Netscape  "Aug 20 19:25
neighborleemore indication of course that MS has everyones best interest at heartAug 20 19:27
schestowitzLawyer: FBI Paid Right-Wing Blogger Charged With Threats < >Aug 20 19:28
neighborleeinteresting that foresight linux has switched to fedora as platform ;0-0Aug 20 19:28
neighborleein lieu of rpathAug 20 19:28
schestowitzYeah, rpath is OKAug 20 19:29
schestowitzSomeone from FOresight came from rpathAug 20 19:29
schestowitzThey are not alien to one anotherAug 20 19:29
schestowitzMore like friends AFAIK. WIth overlapsAug 20 19:29
neighborleesounds like it yesAug 20 19:30
schestowitzHow were Social Security numbers given away? 20 19:30
schestowitzrpath came from Red HatAug 20 19:31
schestowitzStaff-wiseAug 20 19:31
neighborlee < n ice to see going on more ;)Aug 20 19:31
schestowitzThey stil live nearby in North Carolina IIRCAug 20 19:31
neighborleeyup I knew about the redhat thing and foresight..engineersAug 20 19:31
schestowitzRed Hat and others did not accept them so well, so they turned to NovellAug 20 19:31
schestowitzLater they warmed up to Red Hat and CentOSAug 20 19:31
schestowitzneighborlee: just a link to AsayAug 20 19:32
schestowitzI don't trust him muchAug 20 19:32
schestowitzDOes have news feeds again???Aug 20 19:33
schestowitzI can't find any. I tried some months ago.Aug 20 19:33
neighborleeshrug..dont go there often but it looks changed from last time I didAug 20 19:33
schestowitzIt's odd that a foundation funded by big companies like IBM is actually taking donationsAug 20 19:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Healthcare giants stage AstroTurf 'protests'. Disgusting. Town Hall Protests: Astroturf 2.0?Aug 20 19:35
neighborleewell spending is stilll way down..poeple aren't comfy yet with economy stabalizationAug 20 19:35
neighborleebbl store time ;0-0Aug 20 19:35
schestowitzLogitech Technology Ends Mouse-on-Glass Problem 20 19:37
schestowitzstabalization? Where? When? It's not expected for at least another 2 yearsAug 20 19:38
schestowitzRichard Dawkins site hacked <  > More hateful comment there against him...Aug 20 19:46
cubezzzthe inquirer?Aug 20 19:50
schestowitzcubezzz: other sources tooAug 20 19:51
cubezzzhopefully not the same as the national inquirer :)Aug 20 19:51
schestowitzBut the comments there are what I came to expcetAug 20 19:51
schestowitzI've begun watching this Dawkins programme this morning.Aug 20 19:51
schestowitzConvicted Stalker Was Approved By Lancaster To Manage Surveillance Cameras < >Aug 20 19:51
cubezzzwell there's Dawkins, then there's the young earthers :)Aug 20 19:52
cubezzzI doubt either side will listen to the otherAug 20 19:52
schestowitzThe Inquirer is tabloid-like, on purpose, unlike its sibling The Register, which was made by the same manAug 20 19:53
schestowitzcubezzz: he's ineffectiveAug 20 19:53
schestowitzToo direct and thus hostile for them to listen toAug 20 19:53
schestowitzBut sometimes a good watch for us AtheistsAug 20 19:53
schestowitzRichard is being a Dick sometimesAug 20 19:54
schestowitzTech Columnist Calls Model 'A Hero' For Exposing Anonymous Blogger < >Aug 20 19:54
cubezzzwell, I think it's rather pointless to beat up on Atheists or BelieversAug 20 19:54
cubezzzlet people believe what they wantAug 20 19:55
schestowitzWhy believe?Aug 20 19:55
schestowitzIt's like saying, "we believe the world is round"Aug 20 19:55
schestowitzRichard does not like how children get indoctrinated tooAug 20 19:56
schestowitzRather than them believing they are being told.Aug 20 19:56
cubezzzno one really knows, not Dawkins, not Hawking and not the Pope :)Aug 20 19:56
cubezzzso you have to allow for unknownsAug 20 19:57
schestowitz (Why Does Lego Get To Stop Spinal Tap From Using Lego Video)Aug 20 19:57
schestowitzDawkins is a biologist mostlyAug 20 19:57
schestowitzHawking is very well read, so he does knowAug 20 19:57
schestowitzHe at least knows based on evidence, not faithAug 20 19:57
schestowitzThere are still unknowns, but at a different levelsAug 20 19:58
schestowitzIt is known, for example, that the Earth is older than 6,000 yearsAug 20 19:58
schestowitzThis one's a brow-raiser: 20 19:59
cubezzzthe trouble is science and all that doesn't give you a moral centreAug 20 20:00
cubezzzwhatever you want to call it: secular humanism or religion or whatever, you need something in addition to scienceAug 20 20:01
schestowitzYou need ubuntu ;-)Aug 20 20:02
cubezzzsome sort of code or philosophic system to help people get along with each otherAug 20 20:02
cubezzzthe world seems to need thatAug 20 20:02
schestowitzThat does existAug 20 20:02
schestowitzIt doesn't need to be tied to divine entitiesAug 20 20:03
schestowitzDeity is sometimes coming with all sort of hooks like Hell and other scary stuff that gives people nightmaresAug 20 20:03
cubezzzok, let me give you another example...Aug 20 20:03
schestowitzCOmpliance through fear makes for an interesting debate in its own rightAug 20 20:03
cubezzzI can't say UFOs don't existAug 20 20:03
schestowitzTrueAug 20 20:03
schestowitzNothing is certainAug 20 20:04
cubezzzI'm not 100% positive, so I have to be open to the possibility that UFOs existAug 20 20:04
schestowitzBut show evidenceAug 20 20:04
schestowitzOr lack thereofAug 20 20:04
cubezzzI saw oneAug 20 20:04
schestowitzSo probabilities can be looked atAug 20 20:04
schestowitzMaybe a meteorAug 20 20:04
schestowitzHallucinations are common tooAug 20 20:04
cubezzznot kidding, I saw this orange blob at nightAug 20 20:04
schestowitzWHen I get sleep paralysis it has similar effect. Everyone can have itAug 20 20:04
cubezzzreally strange, not kidding eitherAug 20 20:05
schestowitzIn the medieval ages it led to superstitionAug 20 20:05
schestowitzcubezzz: why would it be a UFO?Aug 20 20:05
cubezzzit was about the side of the moon, moving fastAug 20 20:05
schestowitzAs in alien UFO?Aug 20 20:05
cubezzzwell, I don't know what it was, it wasn't anything I saw beforeAug 20 20:05
schestowitzWhy didn't it come down to say hello?Aug 20 20:06
schestowitzWHat would be the purpose?Aug 20 20:06
schestowitzAnd crop circles and mutilated cows are cute, but not evidence of anything. Usually hoaxesAug 20 20:06
cubezzzthis was a pretty big _bright_ orange blob, there were two blobs actuallyAug 20 20:06
cubezzzpretty oddAug 20 20:07
schestowitzDid any radars catch them?Aug 20 20:07
cubezzzI can give you the date probablyAug 20 20:07
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cubezzzI wrote it downAug 20 20:07
schestowitzI once saw a worm that I decided could be alienAug 20 20:08
schestowitzI was 7.Aug 20 20:08
cubezzzsouthern ontario close to lake ontarioAug 20 20:08
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schestowitzWhy have we notsubstaintial evidence?Aug 20 20:08
schestowitzAfter so many years...?Aug 20 20:08
PeterFAschestowitz, about the "patent violations?"Aug 20 20:08
cubezzzschestowitz, there is evidence, there's photographs of weird stuff from the 19th centuryAug 20 20:08
schestowitzHi, PeterFA Aug 20 20:09
cubezzzcigar shaped objects above a mountain rangeAug 20 20:09
PeterFAschestowitz, hello.Aug 20 20:09
PeterFAschestowitz, my website is gaining slight amounts of traffic now.Aug 20 20:09
schestowitzcubezzz: photographs exist also of the Loch Ness monsterAug 20 20:09
schestowitzcubezzz: 20 20:10
cubezzzright, that's not in the same category at allAug 20 20:11
schestowitzIt's similarAug 20 20:11
schestowitzIn the sense that evidence requires moreAug 20 20:11
cubezzzbut I can't prove it, I can only tell you what I saw, I wouldn't even mention it unless I thought it was noteworthyAug 20 20:12
schestowitzWe have evidence for many thingsAug 20 20:12
schestowitzLike motion of galaxies awayAug 20 20:12
schestowitzBased on many observations of many galaxies by MANY peopleAug 20 20:12
schestowitzSo it's not just single photographic accidentAug 20 20:12
cubezzzschestowitz, I have seen similar photographs on the net, similar to what I sawAug 20 20:12
schestowitzKids with equipment can be taken to see it too, like HubbleAug 20 20:12
schestowitzAnd then do the calculations to see all the galaxies came from the same centreAug 20 20:13
schestowitzDo the maths based on speed to also see the times coincideAug 20 20:13
schestowitzWe know the world is round tooAug 20 20:13
schestowitzWe can make many photos from space to show itAug 20 20:13
cubezzzright, I think we all agree on that :)Aug 20 20:14
schestowitzIf someone had the technology to travel so far, than it would have to be massive, outlandish or destrueive IMHOAug 20 20:14
schestowitzNot little men who look just like us (men want others to look similar and they see faces in everything due to inherent instincts)Aug 20 20:15
schestowitzIf you saw an alien a mile wide with 56 legs, that would be reasonableAug 20 20:15
schestowitzNot replications of airplanes, discs, and humansAug 20 20:16
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schestowitzIMHOAug 20 20:16
schestowitzIt begs for the allegation that it's what people /want/ to believe ("God made in our own image'), not a result of an evolution in another planet/star with other conditionsAug 20 20:16
satiperaFor some strange reason my internet cut out on the last two nights just after midnightAug 20 20:17
schestowitzStatistically it's improbable, that's allAug 20 20:17
satiperaI spoke to my ISP today, to see if they were having problemsAug 20 20:17
schestowitzsatipera: it's the goverment !!! :"-=)Aug 20 20:17
satiperalolAug 20 20:17
schestowitz*rnAug 20 20:17
cubezzzok, for what it's worth I saw the blob on Aug 8, 2008Aug 20 20:17
schestowitzcubezzz: I wish to believe too, I hope there will be evidence one dayAug 20 20:18
schestowitzSETI does some pattern recognitionAug 20 20:18
satiperaThey said I should speak to my software provider as they only support windows and osx :)Aug 20 20:18
cubezzz"Just a few minutes ago I saw 2 fair-sized blobsAug 20 20:18
cubezzzof light pass behind the trees to the South-EastAug 20 20:18
cubezzzof my house.Aug 20 20:18
cubezzz"Aug 20 20:18
schestowitzMeteors or star dust?Aug 20 20:19
cubezzz"There was no sound and whatever it was it wasAug 20 20:19
cubezzzmoving fast. The blobs were as bright as aAug 20 20:19
cubezzzfull moon, perhaps a bit smaller."Aug 20 20:19
schestowitzIt travels very fast and is a rare occasionAug 20 20:20
cubezzzdidn't look like a meteorAug 20 20:20
schestowitzJust being something that we don't understand doesn't make it magicAug 20 20:20
schestowitzThere are many things like quanto mechanics that are fascinating like thtaAug 20 20:20
schestowitzNon-intuitiveAug 20 20:20
cubezzzsure, I thought it interesting enough to mention as I can't account for itAug 20 20:20
schestowitzOr black holesAug 20 20:20
schestowitz4th dimension we can't seeAug 20 20:20
schestowitzCurves spacesAug 20 20:20
cubezzzI'm not a UFO nut or anythingAug 20 20:21
schestowitz*curvedAug 20 20:21
schestowitzcubezzz: I know, I'm just discussing itAug 20 20:21
satiperaJust thought I would pass it on, i thought it was amusing being spoken to  by their i.t. bloke as if i was from outerspace or somethingAug 20 20:21
schestowitzDr. Mack things it exists cause his patients tell himAug 20 20:21
schestowitzIt's no evidemnceAug 20 20:21
schestowitzCoincidental, not scientificAug 20 20:21
satiperaHave fun take care allAug 20 20:22
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cubezzzI'm a rational person, I don't suffer from hallucinations, not mentally ill :)Aug 20 20:22
cubezzzuntil I saw those blobs nothing I ever saw could be called a UFOAug 20 20:23
schestowitz (How to Enable Flash Support in Google Chrome in Ubuntu)Aug 20 20:23
schestowitzLet's call them blobsAug 20 20:23
schestowitzBlobs being something unknownAug 20 20:24
schestowitzOr unanswerableAug 20 20:24
cubezzzright, that's what I call them :)Aug 20 20:24
cubezzzI do watch the night sky on occassionAug 20 20:24
schestowitzPS3 clusters hit as Sony gives Linux the flick < >Aug 20 20:26
schestowitzThis stinksAug 20 20:26
schestowitzSOme academic environment had PS3sAug 20 20:27
schestowitzThese may no longer be possible to buy, but someone will probably hack itAug 20 20:27
cubezzzdidn't some folks put linux on their ps3's already?Aug 20 20:28
schestowitzYesAug 20 20:29
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schestowitzComments Made Anonymously Online Don't Have to Stay that Way < >Aug 20 20:32
Will__schestowitz: a little followup to the Xbox news from before: 20 20:32
Will__it says mostly the same thing, but it's interesting to see it coming from a source like thatAug 20 20:33
schestowitzThat's MS PRAug 20 20:33
schestowitzNickrosoftAug 20 20:33
schestowitz 20 20:33
Will__"Had the survey's participants been comprised entirely of Joystiq staffers, it would have been a bone-chilling 100 percent.""Aug 20 20:33
schestowitzSeattle P-I is out of businessAug 20 20:33
schestowitzTHey still tun this blog for PRAug 20 20:33
Will__"Regardless of everything above, people still love their Xbox 360s. Just 3.8 percent of respondents said they wouldn't buy another Xbox because of system failures, according to Game Informer. And 36.4 percent of people who had an Xbox 360 fail have purchased more than one Xbox."Aug 20 20:33
Will__wow.  just wow.  Brings that old definition of insanity to mind.Aug 20 20:34
schestowitzI quit this blog's RSS feed after Nick cameAug 20 20:34
schestowitzHe was worse than Joe T, who was worse than Todd BishopAug 20 20:34
schestowitzI also dumped Joe later onAug 20 20:35
schestowitzAnd Nick at MS-Watch is worse than WilcoxAug 20 20:35
schestowitzIt's one PR after anotherAug 20 20:35
schestowitzMary Fo Foley too... PR gutterAug 20 20:35
schestowitzWHen I come to think of it, in 2009 most of the Microsot blogs became very whorryAug 20 20:35
schestowitzAnd Bishop got whorry when Microsoft threw sponsorship moneys at himAug 20 20:36
schestowitzI might as well quit reading them all. As the company's future is uncertain they feel obliged to jump in for the rescue and do damage controlAug 20 20:36
cubezzztheir was this radio guy who interviewed Stallman recently, his guy's voice is similar to Rush'sAug 20 20:37
schestowitzmini-msft hardly blogs anymore and he too is worried about the companyAug 20 20:37
Will__Even so, I'm a little surprised a PR blog would run something like that.Aug 20 20:37
schestowitzcubezzz: whose ? Ballmer's?Aug 20 20:37
schestowitzWe have new brew here called Bulmers :-)Aug 20 20:37
schestowitzWill__: not the first this weeklAug 20 20:38
schestowitzIt also wrote about the Word banAug 20 20:38
schestowitzWhich I found oddAug 20 20:38
schestowitzThis is a very long-running Microsoft blogs. Goes ages back to TOdd BishopAug 20 20:38
cubezzzSteve Bullmore :)Aug 20 20:38
schestowitzRead a lot by Microsoft employees and people in Seattle, Will__ Aug 20 20:38
schestowitzcubezzz: sounds like something his wife would tell himAug 20 20:39
schestowitzShe was in guerrilla (AstroTurf) marketingAug 20 20:39
Will__Just saying.  You'd think a PR blog would either not run it, or only run it if they could try to spin it in their favor.  Not much to spin about a failure rate like that.Aug 20 20:39
schestowitzGorilla married guerrillaAug 20 20:39
schestowitzConnie Snyder from WaggenerAug 20 20:40
schestowitzWill__: no, couldn't spin itAug 20 20:40
schestowitzThey spin the Bong newsAug 20 20:40
schestowitzI'm gonna do a post to unspin itAug 20 20:40
schestowitzI also wonder what the catch is here: 20 20:41
schestowitztrmanco posted the linkAug 20 20:41
schestowitz 20 20:44
Will__schestowitz: go to, put in a location, look at the radar map.  The bing logo comes up.  Advertising, or hit generation for bing somehow (I don't even know if bing does weather maps or not)?Aug 20 20:45
schestowitzThat's not what I had in mind, thoughAug 20 20:46
schestowitzI found another smokerAug 20 20:47
schestowitzSmoking gun that isAug 20 20:47
schestowitzMicrosoft is now ashamed to bribe for growthAug 20 20:47
schestowitzANd it showsAug 20 20:47
schestowitz"But everyone's doing it!!"Aug 20 20:47
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Will__MS is having difficulty getting traction with Bing for the same reason that it is sometimes hard for anything other than XP to get traction.Aug 20 20:50
Will__People are used to Google.  It's been around for years.  It's part of the vocabulary.  Even if it wasn't Microsoft and even if the product was clearly superior, Google's got strong inertia there.Aug 20 20:51
Will__schestowitz: what you mean "MS is ashamed to bribe for growth"  Does that just mean that the bribe money is running low?Aug 20 20:54
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schestowitzWill__: they play tricksAug 20 20:59
schestowitzOne notable one is the rename and the new domainAug 20 20:59
schestowitzThey claim gains starting from 0%Aug 20 20:59
schestowitzWithout a rename there would be only negligible differencesAug 20 21:00
schestowitzGoogle processes FAR more queries than people can conceptualiiseAug 20 21:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Signs that KDE 4.3 is starting to eat GNOME's lunch? 20 21:00
schestowitzPeople go there, not referred to itAug 20 21:00
schestowitzReferral vs fidelityAug 20 21:00
schestowitzANd with $100 million spent in marketing Microsoft has gained nothing of substance outside the US.Aug 20 21:01
schestowitzCompanies that liaised with Microsoft (money on the table) play the black art of statistics for MicrosoftAug 20 21:01
schestowitzComScore for instanceAug 20 21:01
schestowitzI don't know about HitWise. Worth googling to see how /if they are connected to MicrosoftAug 20 21:02
schestowitzEx-staff, deal, joint press releases, meetings, etc, esp. recent onesAug 20 21:02
Will__schestowitz : How well does Mandriva handle in place upgrades?  How does the package availability compare to a Debian-based distro?  I may need to start looking for a good KDE distro after a couple more KDE4 releases.Aug 20 21:03
Will__Too bad openSuSE isn't in the running anymore, and too bad Kubuntu still isn't treated as a first class *buntu citizen.Aug 20 21:03
Will__Mandrake was my first Linux, but I haven't it since it went downhill (and looks to have recovered).Aug 20 21:05
schestowitzPS3 Slim - No more Linux? Ahh, but for how long... - < > Sure, it'll get hacked as usualAug 20 21:06
schestowitzCheap Linux servers from Sony/IBM (PPC)Aug 20 21:06
schestowitzNew CellsAug 20 21:06
schestowitzWill__: never tried upgrading, yetAug 20 21:06
schestowitzNot in-placeAug 20 21:07
schestowitzLinus will try KDE4 soonAug 20 21:07
schestowitzTry PCLOSAug 20 21:07
schestowitzI used it in JulyAug 20 21:07
schestowitz2009.2Aug 20 21:07
schestowitzKDE 3.5.x, 4 in the reposAug 20 21:07
schestowitzThere is NO distro with 4.3 yetAug 20 21:07
schestowitzNot any major one anywayAug 20 21:08
schestowitzThe nearest one might be... I dunno.... among the major ones maybe OpenSUSE 11.2Aug 20 21:08
schestowitzFedora 12 comes before xmasAug 20 21:08
Will__Does PCLOS still have a weird network detection for wireless cards on the LiveCD, or does it use network manager now?Aug 20 21:09
schestowitzI never use wireless, so I don't knowAug 20 21:10
schestowitzOnly on other people's PCsAug 20 21:10
Will__I'll try it sometime.  Still riding it out on Ubuntu 8.04.  It's not a terrible experience, but I can think of some ways they could improve it so that users on LTS releases don't have to be stuck with old software for big stuff (Firefox, OpenOffice, etc.)Aug 20 21:12
Will__I can roll my own from source or PPAs, but doing that too much can cause headaches when upgrading to the next release, I've heard.Aug 20 21:13
schestowitzJust got a ping from IndiaAug 20 21:15
schestowitzThe gangsters from Microsoft have just signed another dealAug 20 21:15
schestowitzExploitoing kidsAug 20 21:15
schestowitzTHis company is like a cultAug 20 21:15
Will__I've heard MS being compared to Scientology.  A few years ago, I would have laughed at and waved off a statement like that.  Now, it's probably not the best comparison in the world, but MS's actions aren't winning it many points there.Aug 20 21:17
Will__The OOXML thing was my first taste of what MS is really like.Aug 20 21:18
schestowitzI have this coloialismAug 20 21:19
schestowitzAnd the press is spinning it like nobody's businesAug 20 21:19
schestowitz"OH!!! :-) The rich UNCLES from America!!"Aug 20 21:19
schestowitz"They brings us all the moneyz!!"Aug 20 21:19
schestowitzThey bring slaveryAug 20 21:19
schestowitzDigital oneAug 20 21:19
schestowitzWill__: you should see future exhibits then if you think OOXMl was a lessonAug 20 21:20
schestowitzThey bribe and they use moles in organisations, by their admissionAug 20 21:20
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schestowitzSerenity now... :-)Aug 20 21:22
schestowitzAnyway, I'll do some Linux news nowAug 20 21:22
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] PlayStation 3 Will Probably Run Linux Whether Sony Likes it or Not 20 21:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Tux Radar Shows that GNU/Linux is Better Than Vista 7 20 21:33
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment Grows Up and Takes Feature Requests from Users 20 21:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Good Review of PCLinuxOS 2009.1 Minime 20 21:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] UserOS Extreme 9.04 is Going to Launch Soon 20 21:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] List of Exciting GNU/Linux Options for Sub-notebooks 20 21:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] BSD Magazine Available for Download 20 21:50
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Open-source Movie Project is Coming: Durian 20 21:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sun's Engineers Get Help from RedFlag 20 21:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Obama Taken Down - Censorship Excused as Monopoly Infringement 20 21:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft-affiliated/Funded Finjan Uses Software Patents Against Microsoft Rival McAfee 20 22:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Heise on the "Monkey Business" Which is #mono 20 22:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: A-levels outsourced to monkeys 20 22:18
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PeterFAThat's weird, some of my older blog entries still get more hits/day than my newer ones which I thought addressed more.Aug 20 22:40
PeterFAMore stuff people want.Aug 20 22:40
PeterFAschestowitz, what's the status of OOXML?Aug 20 22:40
PeterFAIs it now a standard?Aug 20 22:43
schestowitzStandard fraudAug 20 22:44
PeterFAschestowitz, explain.Aug 20 22:45
schestowitzISO was corruptedAug 20 22:45
PeterFAOh.Aug 20 22:45
schestowitzSo people don't know how to interpret it anymoreAug 20 22:45
PeterFAschestowitz, well, someday, Microsoft will fall, and you can watch it in all the glory.Aug 20 22:46
schestowitzJust a standards operating for Microsoft... bribe, cheat, steal, bully...Aug 20 22:46
schestowitzPeterFA: someone else will riseAug 20 22:46
schestowitzMaybe not equally criminalAug 20 22:46
PeterFAschestowitz, yeah, Linus.Aug 20 22:46
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PeterFAschestowitz, the truth is, all humans are depraved. You can chose to do good, but no matter what you create, someone out there will use it for evil.Aug 20 22:48
PeterFANo government maybe perfect and unable to become corrupt.Aug 20 22:49
PeterFAThere is nothing to protect us under Heaven to protect us from evil.Aug 20 22:49
PeterFAschestowitz, you're right when you say that someone else where rise.Aug 20 22:49
PeterFAAnd we'll fight them too.Aug 20 22:49
PeterFAIt'll be just as hard as Microsoft.Aug 20 22:50
PeterFAschestowitz, so, what do you intend to do about the evil in your own heart?Aug 20 22:50
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ThistleWebGod, please protect us from your followersAug 20 22:52
PeterFAThistleWeb, clever.Aug 20 22:53
ThistleWebyeah, I can't take credit however, I read it somewhere and liked it enough to remember itAug 20 22:53
PeterFAThistleWeb, what's wrong with God's followers?Aug 20 22:54
ThistleWebthey preachAug 20 22:54
PeterFAThistleWeb, what's wrong with that?Aug 20 22:55
ThistleWebsome peeps live their lives quite happily without having the invisible man forced down our throatsAug 20 22:55
neighborleePeterFA, if that is  truly how you perceive things, then I guess that will become your reality and maybe for those you surround yourself with...ive seen the glass half full ideology before and the 'government is out to get us' before too...fud is so easy where instead being out brothers keeper may take more work but ultimately carries great reward.Aug 20 22:56
PeterFAThistleWeb, I thought you'd say that.Aug 20 22:56
ThistleWebfollowers tend to feel the need to force their fairy tales on othersAug 20 22:56
PeterFAneighborlee, actually I said we'd fight  them just as hard.Aug 20 22:56
PeterFAThistleWeb, are you sure they're fairy tales?Aug 20 22:57
ThistleWebyesAug 20 22:57
neighborleeyes but what the evil in heart stuff all about..and the weird heaven stuff ?Aug 20 22:57
PeterFAThistleWeb, prove it.Aug 20 22:57
ThistleWeblolAug 20 22:57
ThistleWebdude, I'm not gonna waste my timeAug 20 22:58
PeterFAI did not think you would. You just don't want God to interfere.Aug 20 22:58
ThistleWeblolAug 20 22:58
PeterFAThistleWeb, why would that be a waste of time?Aug 20 22:58
ThistleWebif I wanted to be in a religious debate I'd join a religious channelAug 20 22:58
PeterFAThistleWeb, then why did say what you first said?Aug 20 22:59
fewaPeterFA, go find PaulAug 20 22:59
ThistleWebit was a response to your "heaven" and "evil" commentsAug 20 22:59
ThistleWebyou decided to bring your religious beliefs into the conversation, regardless of whether they appliedAug 20 23:00
PeterFAThistleWeb, they do apply.Aug 20 23:00
ThistleWebto you obviouslyAug 20 23:00
PeterFAThistleWeb, talks of good and evil are theological, irremovably.Aug 20 23:00
ThistleWebI give upAug 20 23:00
*ThistleWeb is bowing out of this convoAug 20 23:01
PeterFAThistleWeb, remove that and it's ok to do what Microsoft does.Aug 20 23:01
PeterFAThistleWeb, that's the kind of atheist you are.Aug 20 23:01
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_goblinvery quiet here tonight.Aug 20 23:05
*_goblin is now known as GoblinAug 20 23:05
ThistleWebhey GoblinAug 20 23:05
Goblinhi!Aug 20 23:05
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Goblingot one of my lads writing his first "hello world" program.Aug 20 23:07
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PeterFAGoblin, "lads?"Aug 20 23:07
PeterFAGoblin, father?Aug 20 23:07
GoblinyepAug 20 23:07
Goblinof threeAug 20 23:07
PeterFAGoblin, how old his your kid?Aug 20 23:08
Goblin5Aug 20 23:08
Goblin3Aug 20 23:08
Goblin1Aug 20 23:08
PeterFAGoblin, cool. Programming at 5.Aug 20 23:08
Goblinlol not really..Aug 20 23:08
ThistleWebthere was a funny thing about that in another channel about writing a "goodbye cruel world" app which says that, then closesAug 20 23:08
Goblinjust a quick hello world programAug 20 23:08
Goblinand it was python.Aug 20 23:08
PeterFAGoblin, it's an exercise in syntax and method.Aug 20 23:08
PeterFAecho "hello world"Aug 20 23:08
Goblinmy eldest isn't really interested in tech....he's more musical....Aug 20 23:09
PeterFAGoblin, disown him!Aug 20 23:09
GoblinI have hopes for my youngest......Aug 20 23:09
GoblinI'll have him coding simple utils in 8086 asm by the age of 2!!!!!!!!!!Aug 20 23:10
Goblinor maybe I won't...........Aug 20 23:10
Goblinhad such a busy been manic...Aug 20 23:11
Goblinhad no time for my blog....Aug 20 23:11
Goblinmind you I have had the chance to get the latest chromium build....I do love following that project.Aug 20 23:12
PeterFAI just installed Chromium.Aug 20 23:12
Goblinimpressed?Aug 20 23:12
PeterFAGoblin, not really, I haven't looked at it much.Aug 20 23:13
PeterFAGoblin, it's fast though.Aug 20 23:13
PeterFAGoblin, the UI is kind of unusual.Aug 20 23:13 takes some getting used to....Aug 20 23:13
GoblinIve kept up with all the builds of this for quite a while now.Aug 20 23:13
PeterFAGoblin, what's your desktop operating system?Aug 20 23:13
GoblinWolvix (main rig), Zenwalk (secondary PC) and the family PC is currently running my own heavilly modded flavor of Ubuntu 8.04Aug 20 23:14
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Goblinoh and Aros on another machine.Aug 20 23:14
PeterFAAros, Wolvix, Zenwalk? what kinds of OSes are these?Aug 20 23:14
ThistleWeblinuxAug 20 23:15
Goblinexcept AROS.Aug 20 23:15
PeterFAGoblin, that what's Aros?Aug 20 23:15
PeterFAAROS.Aug 20 23:15
ThistleWebyeah I wondered about AROSAug 20 23:15
ThistleWebdamn caps lockAug 20 23:15
Goblinits an Amiga OS type operating system, build upon the foundations left by the Amiga.....Aug 20 23:15
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PeterFAGoblin, I'm not following. I don't know the Amiga OS.Aug 20 23:16
GoblinAmiga 500?Aug 20 23:16
GoblinWorkbenchAug 20 23:16
Goblinthe legend?Aug 20 23:16
PeterFAI'm 25.Aug 20 23:17
ThistleWeball I remember from the amiga OS was the hand with the floppy diskAug 20 23:17
GoblinlolAug 20 23:17
PeterFAYou got kids.Aug 20 23:17
Goblinso "Guru Meditation" means nothing to you?Aug 20 23:17
ThistleWebit did nothing until you put a game inAug 20 23:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Alguem sabe teclar o "infinito"?? aquele oito deitado?Aug 20 23:17
PeterFAGoblin, quite so.Aug 20 23:17
Goblin"Guru Meditation were the words that came up when the Amiga had a BSOD moment.Aug 20 23:18
Goblinsorry, Ill stop there.Aug 20 23:18
ThistleWeboh, I never saw thatAug 20 23:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Oops, I guess I've upset Flatfish. IIRC I'm his #1 enemy now. Even worst then Roy ATM. Oh well :-pAug 20 23:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Repeatedly Receives Good News from comScore after Signing Deal with comScore 20 23:18
schestowitz<PeterFA> schestowitz, so, what do you intend to do about the evil in your own heart?Aug 20 23:18
ThistleWebthen again, I only ever used the amiga for gamesAug 20 23:18
schestowitzCatching up: what do you mean?Aug 20 23:18
Goblinwho me?Aug 20 23:19
ThistleWebonly saw the amiga os from screenshots on wikipedia (I think)Aug 20 23:19
PeterFAschestowitz, oh, well, you see ethics, violations, fraud and so on all over the place.Aug 20 23:19
PeterFAschestowitz, the point was human depravity.Aug 20 23:19
GoblinPeterFA: What OS are you running?Aug 20 23:19
PeterFAGoblin, Sabayon.Aug 20 23:19
ThistleWebI tried sabyon onceAug 20 23:20
Goblinah....and you did not recognise any of my distros?Aug 20 23:20
ThistleWebwas kinda slow for my likingAug 20 23:20
GoblinZenwalk is kinda well known.....Aug 20 23:20
PeterFAThistleWeb, that's because it's about consuming resources for pretty effects.Aug 20 23:20
Goblinor I thought it was.Aug 20 23:20
ThistleWebthen I found out they're one of the leech distros, hardly give anything back upstreamAug 20 23:20
ThistleWebto be fair I couldn't get my head round the portage system so I was always feeling uneasy about itAug 20 23:21
schestowitzPeterFA: metaphors aside (hearts are just good pumps), "evil" is only loosely definedAug 20 23:21
PeterFAThistleWeb, is Linux Mint a leech distro?Aug 20 23:21
ThistleWebnot at allAug 20 23:21
schestowitzUsually harms to other people's willAug 20 23:21
schestowitzPeterFA: it isAug 20 23:22
ThistleWebmint give their changes back to both ubuntu and debianAug 20 23:22
schestowitzMint is Ubuntu+blobsAug 20 23:22
PeterFADarn.Aug 20 23:22
PeterFAMint is a few clean-ups from Ubuntu.Aug 20 23:22
GoblinIve never got around to trying Mint....Aug 20 23:22
PeterFAUbuntu has some silly issues.Aug 20 23:22
PeterFA"No MP3 playback for you unless you install these voluntary packages because we don't want to get sued."Aug 20 23:23
Goblina minor issue though.Aug 20 23:23
ThistleWebyeah blame the patent holders on that oneAug 20 23:23
PeterFAGoblin, annoying issue, and can be frustrating, especially to newcomers.Aug 20 23:23
Goblinno more so than what some Windows 7 users are experiencing with their monitors.......Aug 20 23:24
Goblinif you find a perfect OS, let me know.Aug 20 23:24
ThistleWebOSXAug 20 23:24
ThistleWebroflAug 20 23:24
fewaPeterFA, it is _really_ easy to get those installedAug 20 23:24
Goblinactually Workbench 1.3 was pretty perfect...Aug 20 23:25
Goblinexcept for a few memory leak issues.Aug 20 23:25
PeterFAfewa, ok, when I do find it.Aug 20 23:25
ThistleWebmedibuntuAug 20 23:25
fewaIts nothing like the work to make Windows or OSX useful out of the boxAug 20 23:25
fewaand Ubuntu _is_ useful out of the boxAug 20 23:26
GoblinPeterFA: I'd suggest if somone has the ability to install linux they are not going to have an issue with installing a few packages.....Aug 20 23:26
ThistleWebeven the term "out of the box" is biased towards software sold in boxesAug 20 23:26
Goblinvery true.Aug 20 23:26
PeterFAGoblin, do you know how easy it is to install Linux?Aug 20 23:26
PeterFA:)Aug 20 23:26
fewa"straight from the cd"Aug 20 23:26
ThistleWebfewa: that works lolAug 20 23:27
ThistleWebdon't mind me, I'm just splitting hairs for funAug 20 23:27
GoblinPeterFA: Yes, since I've reviewed many linux distros from Debian to slackware....yes....Aug 20 23:27
GoblinPeterFA: Ive reviewed them on my site....Aug 20 23:27
PeterFAGoblin, just because you can install Linux doesn't mean you know how to maintain it.Aug 20 23:27
ThistleWebanyone who buys a pc with ubuntu will already have the codecs installed by the oem before they get their pc home in all likelyhoodAug 20 23:27
PeterFAGoblin, does your site have some sort of address?Aug 20 23:27
PeterFAThistleWeb, good point.Aug 20 23:27
GoblinPeterFA: lol....yep.Aug 20 23:27
GoblinPeterFA: and you know exactly what it is.....don't patronize me by pretending you dont.Aug 20 23:28
ThistleWebthose who have the skills to install an OS also have the skills to do the final post install tweaks for the end user, like setting up codecsAug 20 23:28
PeterFAGoblin, just making sure. I'd hate for you to run your website and never find out that it needs an address for people to view it.Aug 20 23:28
GoblinPeterFA: lolAug 20 23:28
PeterFAThistleWeb, not me, I just gave up with Ubuntu and went elsewhere.Aug 20 23:29
ThistleWebyeah so we sawAug 20 23:29
GoblinPeterFA: Peterfa eh? these names are not very creative are they.Aug 20 23:29
PeterFAGoblin, my nick?Aug 20 23:29
GoblinPeterFA: No..... you distro.....of course your nick...keep up.Aug 20 23:29
Goblin*yourAug 20 23:29
ThistleWebI see a difference in a distro I'd use, compared to what I'd install on a newbie (to linux)'s PCAug 20 23:29
PeterFAGoblin, I love you.Aug 20 23:29
GoblinPeterFA: feelings mutual...Aug 20 23:30
PeterFA:DAug 20 23:30
PeterFAWell, lovely chatting, but I need to go back to work/eat food.Aug 20 23:30
ThistleWebI prefer Mint as a recomended newbie distroAug 20 23:30
GoblinPeterFA: you let the side down by asking about my kids.Aug 20 23:30
GoblinPeterFA: ;) better luck next time.Aug 20 23:30
PeterFAGoblin, chow.Aug 20 23:30
ThistleWebit's very newbie friendly, with a lot of stuff done for youAug 20 23:30
GoblinPeterFA: "Im a linux user but............................."Aug 20 23:30
GoblinPeterFA: lolAug 20 23:31
GoblinPeterFA: I look forward to speaking again.Aug 20 23:31
PeterFAGoblin, cool, will do.Aug 20 23:31
GoblinPeterFA: So will the FTC hopefully.Aug 20 23:31
ThistleWebyeah an apparent Sabyion user son't stumble on it without being aware of other distrosAug 20 23:32
ThistleWebdon't*Aug 20 23:32
ThistleWebit's hardly an entry level pointAug 20 23:32
GoblinIts actually quite insulting....Aug 20 23:32
Goblinthat they think people are stupid enough to fall for this nonsense.Aug 20 23:32
fewaGoblin, yep, exactly what ive been thinkingAug 20 23:33
Goblinalways the Ubuntu critic....Aug 20 23:33
fewamakes me think of this: 20 23:33
Goblinsince thats where the first threat lies.Aug 20 23:33
fewaalmost posted it earlierAug 20 23:33
ThistleWebI'm an ubuntu critic, but I also support it's surge into the mainstreamAug 20 23:34
fewaUbuntu is greatAug 20 23:34
ThistleWebit is greatAug 20 23:34
ThistleWebnot for me, but it is greatAug 20 23:34
fewabut there are many things out there in the FOSS world which could be betterAug 20 23:34
ThistleWebindeedAug 20 23:34
ThistleWebthe way I see it, the better ubuntu does, the better for all of usAug 20 23:35
GoblinI have mixed feelings, yes great userfriendly distro, although I have always said as it begins to appeal to a mainstream audience there is a danger of it becoming the Vista of linux....Aug 20 23:35
ThistleWebthey are the juggernaught we all benefit fromAug 20 23:35
Goblinthats why I celebrate diversity in Linux distrosAug 20 23:35
Goblinpersonally I think Mandriva is equally as good for a "first port of call" for the Linux newcommer.Aug 20 23:35
ThistleWebthere are a few good newbie distrosAug 20 23:36
GoblinMint...Aug 20 23:36
ThistleWebyep to bothAug 20 23:36
fewaI think debian is really close to fitting Ubuntu's roleAug 20 23:36
ThistleWebMint is my choiceAug 20 23:36
GoblinMepis 8 is good...Aug 20 23:36
ThistleWebI tried antix 8 which is kinda interestingAug 20 23:36
GoblinI'm sticking with Wolvix on my main it to bits.Aug 20 23:37
ThistleWebyeah Wolvix does grab you when you play with itAug 20 23:37
ThistleWebwhich wolvix did you go for?Aug 20 23:38
Goblin2 beta 2Aug 20 23:38
ThistleWebI tried cub, the light oneAug 20 23:38
ThistleWebor have they slipped down to one version now?Aug 20 23:39
GoblinI don't know if there is a 2 cub.....Aug 20 23:39
ThistleWebcant remember the name of the full versionAug 20 23:39
GoblinI got mine hot off the press from Linux tracker.Aug 20 23:39
Goblinstill hanging around waiting for it to come out of beta.......Aug 20 23:40
ThistleWebthere may be, just not promoted as the main releaseAug 20 23:40
Goblinto be fair though, Ive had no major issues......Aug 20 23:40
ThistleWebyeah you sometimes get thatAug 20 23:40
Goblinannoying mouse wheel issue, but since Ive fiddled I now see a solution posted.....Aug 20 23:41
Goblinthats half the fun for me.....Aug 20 23:41
ThistleWebI've not tried volvix 2 yetAug 20 23:42
ThistleWebwolvixAug 20 23:42
ThistleWebwhen is it expected to be final?Aug 20 23:42
Goblinnot sure....Ive seen nothing on the site yet and I havent had the time to look in the forums....Aug 20 23:43
GoblinI would have been more vigilant if there were issues with the beta but since there is not, Im in no rush....Aug 20 23:43
ThistleWebI'm tempted to use it as a usb distro with a persistent homeAug 20 23:44
ThistleWebxfce is a wonderful environment when it's done rightAug 20 23:44
GoblinFunnily enough, Im going to try and install it on my Acer Aspire One via USB....hopefully this weekend....Aug 20 23:44
ThistleWebit's a lot more functional than many assumeAug 20 23:45
Goblintime for a shower I think....bblAug 20 23:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Still Sabotages Linux MBRs in Vista 7 20 23:57

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