| DaemonFC | Microsoft is so desperate to spread OOXML that they're giving away free copies of it on Best Buy laptops til next month I believe it was | Sep 03 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Intellectual Ventures = a monster troll with 27.000 patents and 362 satellite companies: http://i5.be/GK | Sep 03 00:03 | |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I think I'll probably wipe out the Windows 7 partition for Linux Mint as soon as my new TV tuner card gets here | Sep 03 00:04 |
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| DaemonFC | usability, I think, is not something Ubuntu puts a lot of concern into | Sep 03 00:09 |
| DaemonFC | if you use the computer for hours, the interface should at least be something you can stand to look at | Sep 03 00:10 |
| DaemonFC | their description of the "Human" theme several years ago hurt my eyes just to read it was like "warm colors and pleasing aesthetic earth tones" | Sep 03 00:12 |
| DaemonFC | it ended up being GNOME set to crap brown | Sep 03 00:12 |
| DaemonFC | Shuttleworth says there will be new artwork for Karmic, but as of Alpha 5 it hasn't landed | Sep 03 00:13 |
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| _Hicham_ | what is your new tv tuner card ? | Sep 03 00:14 |
| _Hicham_ | and stop criticizing the theme | Sep 03 00:15 |
| _Hicham_ | gnome is customizable | Sep 03 00:15 |
| _Hicham_ | that is not sthg to complain about | Sep 03 00:16 |
| DaemonFC | it is, but it's not a good first impression | Sep 03 00:16 |
| _Hicham_ | for you maybe | Sep 03 00:16 |
| DaemonFC | new users won't necessarily know how to install a new theming engine either | Sep 03 00:16 |
| _Hicham_ | but a lot of users say they like it | Sep 03 00:16 |
| MinceR | those who talk the most about usability tend to know the least about it | Sep 03 00:16 |
| MinceR | case in point: crApple | Sep 03 00:16 |
| _Hicham_ | u don't have to install a theme engine | Sep 03 00:17 |
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| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is like Windows 95 meets something from a Tim Burton horror movie with regards to their default layout | Sep 03 00:17 |
| _Hicham_ | a new user can do System>Preferences>Apperance | Sep 03 00:17 |
| DaemonFC | brb | Sep 03 00:19 |
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| schestowitz | "Reminder we are having a meeting tomorrow 12pm-3pm. There will be a | Sep 03 00:23 |
| schestowitz | bash/zenity-tutorial at 2pm. | Sep 03 00:23 |
| schestowitz | If you haven't already done so, please sign up for the new google-group | Sep 03 00:23 |
| schestowitz | mailing-list: http://www.berkeleylug.com/?page_id=274 Future announcements will | Sep 03 00:23 |
| schestowitz | be sent to that list. | Sep 03 00:23 |
| schestowitz | Finally, as the Solano Stroll is going to be the next event after this Sunday | Sep 03 00:23 |
| schestowitz | we are working on a banner and brochure. Have a look at: | Sep 03 00:23 |
| schestowitz | http://www.berkeleylug.com/Banner2.pdf | Sep 03 00:23 |
| schestowitz | http://www.berkeleylug.com/Brochure.pdf | Sep 03 00:23 |
| schestowitz | and comment on the forum about what you think. The source files are also | Sep 03 00:23 |
| schestowitz | linked from the forum: | Sep 03 00:23 |
| schestowitz | http://www.berkeleylug.com/?page_id=16&wpforumaction=viewtopic&t=34.0 | Sep 03 00:23 |
| schestowitz | Hope to see you all tomorrow." | Sep 03 00:23 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: screenie looks good | Sep 03 00:24 |
| trmanco | :D | Sep 03 00:24 |
| *trmanco can't rest............. needs ........ more KkkDDEee!! | Sep 03 00:25 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @trmanco I'm on #KDE 4.3.1, have a look! [pic] http://ff.im/7yXw2 | Sep 03 00:25 | |
| schestowitz | I mess up the "RT" | Sep 03 00:28 |
| trmanco | hehe | Sep 03 00:30 |
| trmanco | no worries | Sep 03 00:31 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Just watched a screencast about openmolar. http://launchpad.net/openmolar http://tinyvid.tv/show/1174zh4v3sldz Impressive! | Sep 03 01:20 | |
| schestowitz | gn | Sep 03 01:23 |
| cubezzz | I was wondering about Linux on Roomba, and it seems it's been done :) | Sep 03 01:40 |
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| cubezzz | I found my SCO Xenix notes | Sep 03 02:31 |
| cubezzz | none of my notes refer to Microsoft Xenix, only SCO Xenix, then later on SCO Unix System V | Sep 03 02:32 |
| cubezzz | dated Feb 27, 1989 | Sep 03 02:32 |
| cubezzz | now maybe there were two different Xenix's | Sep 03 02:34 |
| cubezzz | I seem to remember using Venix back in 1986 | Sep 03 02:35 |
| DaemonFC | I may just make my own kernel, I'm feeling dangerous | Sep 03 02:35 |
| DaemonFC | why not? :P | Sep 03 02:35 |
| cubezzz | looking at wikipedia Microsoft did originally license Unix from AT&T in the late 70's, before my time as a programmer | Sep 03 02:37 |
| cubezzz | looks like Venix died back in 1994 | Sep 03 02:38 |
| cubezzz | anyways, SCO in the old days was a pretty good company | Sep 03 02:39 |
| cubezzz | they had good tech support | Sep 03 02:39 |
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| Ha ha. Joel and Jammie might as well share their music online. What's the RIAA going to do to them, sue them for another three million bucks? | Sep 03 05:14 | |
| http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/09/riaagoesforblood/ | Sep 03 05:14 | |
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| Will | Wow. Joe Wilcox really hates netbooks: http://www.joewilcox.com/2009/08/netbook-plague-kills-1-in-5-notebooks/ | Sep 03 05:54 |
| Will | I'm sort of just sitting back indifferently until I see some ARM netbooks. I might get one of those if the price is right. | Sep 03 05:57 |
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| Wilcox is a troll. | Sep 03 06:06 | |
| The biggest killer of computers is Windows. | Sep 03 06:09 | |
| Vista was so hated that it destroyed computer sales around the world. | Sep 03 06:09 | |
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| The old saying is, "GNU/Linux turns trash into a new computer and Windows turns new computers into trash." | Sep 03 06:10 | |
| ha ha -> Could anything be more putrid? | Sep 03 06:10 | |
| see his image on the page | Sep 03 06:12 | |
| see also the source code to the same page with IE, IE7 and IE6 stylesheets and nothing else. | Sep 03 06:13 | |
| <!--[if IE]><link rel="stylesheet" href="http://www.joewilcox.com/wp-content/themes/varnish/css/ie.css" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" /><![endif]--> | Sep 03 06:14 | |
| <!--[if gte IE 7]><link rel="stylesheet" href="http://www.joewilcox.com/wp-content/themes/varnish/css/ie7.css" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" /><![endif]--> | Sep 03 06:14 | |
| <!--[if lte IE 6]><link rel="stylesheet" href="http://www.joewilcox.com/wp-content/themes/varnish/css/ie6.css" type="text/css" media="screen, projection" /> | Sep 03 06:14 | |
| <script type="text/javascript" src="http://www.joewilcox.com/wp-content/themes/varnish/js/unitpngfix.js"></script><![endif]--> | Sep 03 06:14 | |
| drrrrrr. | Sep 03 06:14 | |
| almost as funny as that constipated little man expression of his. | Sep 03 06:14 | |
| lol -> Those fraking, margin-sucking minis are everywhere. | Sep 03 06:15 | |
| the word is "fucking" Joe. Use it or clear your thoughts. | Sep 03 06:15 | |
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| Oh noes, people are not burning piles of cash for the Gods of Redmond! -> Every netbook sold sucks sales from higher-margin and, granted, larger portables. | Sep 03 06:17 | |
| LOL -> Netbooks are sucking air out of the room—bursting Windows! | Sep 03 06:19 | |
| It's like someone cut off their air supply. Call the Wahmulance! | Sep 03 06:19 | |
| Join us Joe, you could be happy. http://www.joewilcox.com/2009/08/netbook-plague-kills-1-in-5-notebooks/comment-page-1/#comment-2323 | Sep 03 06:34 | |
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| ick. chicks dumped into a meat grinder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ--faib7to | Sep 03 06:46 | |
| alive | Sep 03 06:46 | |
| M$ pushes for one lawless patent world http://politics.slashdot.org/story/09/09/02/2036227/Microsoft-Pushes-For-Single-Global-Patent-System | Sep 03 06:53 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Intel — Like Microsoft — Uses Heavy Lobbying to Permit Own Crimes http://ping.fm/uEmvc | Sep 03 08:41 | |
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| jargon | stop being whiney bitches | Sep 03 10:57 |
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| oiaohm | http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2009/08/31/august_2009_web_server_survey.html Interesting read. | Sep 03 11:14 |
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| schestowitz | Freenode is wobbly today | Sep 03 13:33 |
| tacone | they probably enabled compiz on the servers. | Sep 03 13:34 |
| trmanco | heh | Sep 03 13:35 |
| trmanco | conversation is now working :D | Sep 03 13:35 |
| trmanco | konversation* | Sep 03 13:43 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Editing video with Pitivi again. Happy. | Sep 03 13:54 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Takes Software Patents Agenda Up a Notch http://ping.fm/c26y5 | Sep 03 14:11 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Woot! Another screencast in the can! Yippee! | Sep 03 14:15 | |
| MinceR | apparently schestowitz beat me to linking http://politics.slashdot.org/story/09/09/02/2036227/Microsoft-Pushes-For-Single-Global-Patent-System?from=rss | Sep 03 14:23 |
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| ThistleWeb | ya can't blame MS for wanting a global patent system, it means they can concentrate resources corrupting one organisation, instead of having to spend on multiple slush funds | Sep 03 14:38 |
| ThistleWeb | when you're losing money hand over fist you have to try and cut spending in ways that don't cut the effects | Sep 03 14:39 |
| MinceR | i can blame them for corrupting the world | Sep 03 14:40 |
| MinceR | and continuing their attempts to do so | Sep 03 14:40 |
| MinceR | profitability is no excuse for lack of ethics | Sep 03 14:40 |
| MinceR | and it never will be | Sep 03 14:40 |
| ThistleWeb | it's not right, but you can understand why they want to minimise the money they need to pay out to buy decisions | Sep 03 14:42 |
| MinceR | i can understand it | Sep 03 14:43 |
| MinceR | and i despise it | Sep 03 14:43 |
| ThistleWeb | of course | Sep 03 14:46 |
| ThistleWeb | it does seem like a naturla move for MS to make | Sep 03 14:46 |
| ThistleWeb | natural* | Sep 03 14:46 |
| MinceR | and naturally, the rest of the world doesn't defend itself | Sep 03 14:47 |
| ThistleWeb | not to mention the fact that the US would make sure it's the US system that's replicated, with all it's flaws and exploitability | Sep 03 14:47 |
| MinceR | these criminals are still allowed to live (and be rich) after all they've done | Sep 03 14:47 |
| MinceR | well, of course | Sep 03 14:47 |
| MinceR | we'd expect nothing less from the usa | Sep 03 14:47 |
| MinceR | bring "democracy"^Wcorruption to the world | Sep 03 14:48 |
| MinceR | as if we didn't have enough already | Sep 03 14:48 |
| schestowitz | I agree | Sep 03 14:49 |
| schestowitz | It's down to awareness | Sep 03 14:49 |
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| schestowitz | If people realise that Microsoft is a political movement they might start bothering to do something | Sep 03 14:49 |
| MinceR | they don't seem to be doing anything against other harmful political movements either | Sep 03 14:52 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: that's the genius of the system | Sep 03 14:55 |
| schestowitz | it keeps people fatigues and overly occupies | Sep 03 14:56 |
| schestowitz | *pied | Sep 03 14:56 |
| schestowitz | By the time they arrive at home they can't be bothered with anything others than lying on the couch peering at brainwash | Sep 03 14:56 |
| schestowitz | They could easily arive at answers had they done some very fundamental research. Some do, and they are 'punished' for it | Sep 03 14:57 |
| schestowitz | Then, there are other defenses | Sep 03 14:57 |
| schestowitz | Take the 'education' system for example | Sep 03 14:57 |
| schestowitz | Who do you think decides on curriculum? | Sep 03 14:57 |
| schestowitz | It's more like an indoctrination system | Sep 03 14:57 |
| oiaohm | Global patent system is a threat to MS more that it is to open source. | Sep 03 14:58 |
| MinceR | how so? | Sep 03 14:58 |
| oiaohm | Reason you don't normally sue the person without money. | Sep 03 14:58 |
| schestowitz | That's what zoobab says | Sep 03 14:58 |
| MinceR | not only people without money are doing FLOSS | Sep 03 14:58 |
| MinceR | and sw patents greatly impede FLOSS | Sep 03 14:59 |
| oiaohm | They don't really. | Sep 03 14:59 |
| MinceR | also, m$ probably doesn't know what's good for them anyway | Sep 03 14:59 |
| oiaohm | All cases so far over patents software has shown this. | Sep 03 14:59 |
| MinceR | like the VFAT case which ended with TomTom settling and degrading their own products? | Sep 03 14:59 |
| MinceR | or the countless cases of sw patent FUD? | Sep 03 15:00 |
| MinceR | or the novell/m$ deal and the accompanying shitstorm? | Sep 03 15:00 |
| oiaohm | novell/m$ deal MS is paying Novell. | Sep 03 15:00 |
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| oiaohm | TomTom only pays for 2 years before they change there product not to use the MS patents. | Sep 03 15:01 |
| oiaohm | So ms makes bugger all from the software patents they hold. | Sep 03 15:01 |
| oiaohm | Yet they are paying out way more to groups who see MS as a soft target. | Sep 03 15:02 |
| oiaohm | And will keep on paying out more. | Sep 03 15:02 |
| oiaohm | The advantage of a sold product is there is a single point to sue. | Sep 03 15:02 |
| oiaohm | Open source is multiable points harder and more time consuming to sue so less profitable for patent holder. | Sep 03 15:03 |
| MinceR | the novell/m$ deal resulted in a lot of FUD against linux, caused the community to be splintered | Sep 03 15:05 |
| oiaohm | Take Redhat history with patents. One of the largest installed bases. You want redhat to pay a patent they will want to check it full. Most of the time not pay just remove feature and rework. | Sep 03 15:05 |
| MinceR | and is accompanied by the leadership of the linux project being corrupted | Sep 03 15:05 |
| MinceR | TomTom changes their product to do less. | Sep 03 15:06 |
| M$ is increasingly divorced from reality. | Sep 03 15:06 | |
| oiaohm | What did they change to do less MinceR | Sep 03 15:06 |
| MinceR | they must have removed the affected part of VFAT support | Sep 03 15:06 |
| MinceR | iirc creating long filenames | Sep 03 15:06 |
| MinceR | (on VFAT, obviously) | Sep 03 15:06 |
| The US patent system has punished them but is moving away from software and business patents. | Sep 03 15:06 | |
| oiaohm | Now did they have to use VFAT for long filenames MinceR | Sep 03 15:07 |
| oiaohm | Answer is no. | Sep 03 15:07 |
| Palin continues to provide amusement http://www.theweek.com/article/index/100058/Levi_Johnston_Another_Sarah_Palin_bombshell_in_Vanity_Fair | Sep 03 15:07 | |
| oiaohm | VFAT just make there product more windows compadible. | Sep 03 15:07 |
| MinceR | is supporting VFAT a feature or is it not? | Sep 03 15:07 |
| vfat is an anti feature | Sep 03 15:07 | |
| MinceR | it made their product compatible with the way almost all memory cards are formatted by default | Sep 03 15:07 |
| oiaohm | There are other filesystems then can use. | Sep 03 15:07 |
| MinceR | it made their product more interoperable. | Sep 03 15:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] A ver nos Mapas da Sapo onde fica a praça de batalha no Porto! | Sep 03 15:07 | |
| MinceR | the option to use better filesystems was always there. | Sep 03 15:07 |
| M$ interop is all one way, MinceR. | Sep 03 15:08 | |
| MinceR | this change hurts TomTom and it hurts the user. | Sep 03 15:08 |
| MinceR | this wasn't m$ interop, m$ didn't do the development here. | Sep 03 15:08 |
| oiaohm | They could have been using the udf would have given the same interop for end user MinceR. | Sep 03 15:08 |
| oiaohm | No patent to pay. | Sep 03 15:08 |
| MinceR | i'm not sure if udf is suitable for random-access storage media. | Sep 03 15:08 |
| M$ does little to no development in the first place. They are a distribution and a damn lazy one. | Sep 03 15:08 | |
| oiaohm | And every major OS support it. | Sep 03 15:09 |
| oiaohm | udf does MinceR | Sep 03 15:09 |
| MinceR | iirc it was presented as an alternative to iso9660 | Sep 03 15:09 |
| oiaohm | udf is writable iso9660 is not designed for writing. | Sep 03 15:09 |
| MinceR | once again, the user always had the option to use UDF anyway. | Sep 03 15:09 |
| MinceR | they only get one less option now | Sep 03 15:09 |
| cameras and other devices do not need long file names, they can escape M$'s abuse at anytime. | Sep 03 15:09 | |
| MinceR | they can be improved by using long filenames | Sep 03 15:10 |
| they use short names like dcim and img1234.jpg | Sep 03 15:10 | |
| oiaohm | Also MS patents only apply to having long and short file names. | Sep 03 15:10 |
| MinceR | they can use long names if they're programmed to do so | Sep 03 15:10 |
| I doubt anyone needs more than 9999 image names on a SD card. | Sep 03 15:10 | |
| oiaohm | So device makers still can use long filenames with junk short filenames. | Sep 03 15:10 |
| MinceR | junk short filenames are less useful for the users. | Sep 03 15:10 |
| oiaohm | and not be affected by the Ms patent. | Sep 03 15:10 |
| oiaohm | The device does not have control programs for dos MinceR | Sep 03 15:11 |
| MinceR | also, developing the code to generate junk short filenames costs resources | Sep 03 15:11 |
| but they can always use i1234567.jpg if they want. | Sep 03 15:11 | |
| MinceR | suffering the lawsuit cost resources | Sep 03 15:11 |
| oiaohm | Or OS that will not show the long filenames either. | Sep 03 15:11 |
| MinceR | caring/worrying about it cost many other people resources | Sep 03 15:11 |
| oiaohm | so user will never know. | Sep 03 15:11 |
| MinceR | all this for no good reason | Sep 03 15:11 |
| the code is already there, no money needs to be wasted. | Sep 03 15:11 | |
| MinceR | some OSes will show only the short filenames | Sep 03 15:11 |
| if money is to be spent, it will go towards another file system | Sep 03 15:11 | |
| oiaohm | Also when exposed to windows it will correct the short filename | Sep 03 15:12 |
| MinceR | they'll still have to change the behavior of the system | Sep 03 15:12 |
| MinceR | and they'll have to make new images and a new firmware release. | Sep 03 15:12 |
| what do these other OSs need vfat for? | Sep 03 15:12 | |
| I only use it to read devices. | Sep 03 15:12 | |
| and I have long filename support anyway. | Sep 03 15:12 | |
| oiaohm | There are a lot better filesystems for flash live and the like than vfat as well. | Sep 03 15:12 |
| MinceR | mainly to interoperate with windows and possibly other OSes that they don't share other FSes with. | Sep 03 15:12 |
| oiaohm | Only reason they are not used is windows does not support them. | Sep 03 15:13 |
| MinceR | tell that to all those people blindly using winblows. | Sep 03 15:13 |
| Why should I ask the ignorant what to do? | Sep 03 15:13 | |
| oiaohm | Note the fat patents don't effect reading the filesystem. | Sep 03 15:13 |
| oiaohm | Only writing to it. | Sep 03 15:13 |
| MinceR | "i'll just transfer these files onto your computer via a usb flash drive. do you have ext2ifs installed?" "no and i won't." "damn." | Sep 03 15:13 |
| MinceR | why should anyone suffer because of the patent system? | Sep 03 15:13 |
| oiaohm | who said the user will know. | Sep 03 15:13 |
| No. I just hook up my laptop to their network and let them download everything via http. | Sep 03 15:14 | |
| oiaohm | There is more than 1 way to skin the cat. | Sep 03 15:14 |
| MinceR | not always feasible. | Sep 03 15:14 |
| oiaohm | You know windows all versions support mounting ftp as a drive. | Sep 03 15:14 |
| well, then they suck and I doubt they have anything I need or want. | Sep 03 15:14 | |
| MinceR | if it inconveniences some of the users some of the time then sw patents have done harm to FLOSS. | Sep 03 15:14 |
| MinceR | and they have. | Sep 03 15:14 |
| oiaohm | Its inconvent to device makers. | Sep 03 15:15 |
| oh sure, but Biski is dealing with all of that. | Sep 03 15:15 | |
| oiaohm | Once device maker works out a way around it end user still ends up with a writeable drive mounted. | Sep 03 15:15 |
| they are only capable of harming their own users these days. | Sep 03 15:15 | |
| MinceR | if someone absolutely has to write that sort of vfat crap for some random reason, they can't choose to use linux like they could before. | Sep 03 15:15 |
| MinceR | Biski isn't dealing with it | Sep 03 15:15 |
| MinceR | nothing is | Sep 03 15:15 |
| oiaohm | vfat is not need for windows compadiblity. | Sep 03 15:16 |
| MinceR | even if it's against the law, sw patents keep working in the favor of the bad guys. | Sep 03 15:16 |
| MinceR | as shown above. | Sep 03 15:16 |
| oiaohm | udf middle could be used as well. | Sep 03 15:16 |
| what do you mean? M$ is delusionall | Sep 03 15:16 | |
| MinceR | in some cases it could, in some other cases it couldn't | Sep 03 15:16 |
| oiaohm | Where devices real filesystem has a fake udf over the top for access. | Sep 03 15:16 |
| oiaohm | Generated by software. | Sep 03 15:16 |
| Guitierez makes noise as if people will listen. | Sep 03 15:16 | |
| MinceR | that would be hideously expensive. | Sep 03 15:17 |
| He's like Iraqi communications manager or something. | Sep 03 15:17 | |
| oiaohm | Supprisingly not MinceR | Sep 03 15:17 |
| "Software patents will conquer the world in 5 minutes! Everyone will come to East Texas for justice!" | Sep 03 15:17 | |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I disagree with what you write | Sep 03 15:18 |
| oiaohm | Exporting as ftp or udf cost about the same. | Sep 03 15:18 |
| schestowitz | sw patents are very harmful to FOSS | Sep 03 15:18 |
| "You will do as I say!" | Sep 03 15:18 | |
| MinceR | without sw patents, you wouldn't have to export _at all_ | Sep 03 15:18 |
| schestowitz | You seem to have latched onto the microsoft/IBM brainwash | Sep 03 15:18 |
| his blithering shows that software patents are on the way out. | Sep 03 15:18 | |
| schestowitz | I'm doing a post about it ATM | Sep 03 15:18 |
| MinceR | you could just write vfat on dumb media | Sep 03 15:18 |
| schestowitz | Very long post | Sep 03 15:18 |
| MinceR | instead of having to implement NAS or a filesystem translator. | Sep 03 15:18 |
| some resources, Roy, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/219107 | Sep 03 15:18 | |
| oiaohm | Vfat direct access on flash also shortens live of flash due to not been effect order writing MinceR | Sep 03 15:19 |
| MinceR | depending on the hardware | Sep 03 15:19 |
| oiaohm | User is paying for use of Vfat one way or the other. | Sep 03 15:19 |
| MinceR | it might use wear leveling | Sep 03 15:19 |
| MinceR | they probably all do | Sep 03 15:19 |
| oiaohm | Wear leveling is more expensive hardware MinceR all because the file system does not have wear leveling. | Sep 03 15:19 |
| MinceR | yet flash drives already need it. | Sep 03 15:20 |
| The EU has rejected software patents on several occasions. The rest of the world wants nothing to do with US patent insanity or having the US tax their companies. | Sep 03 15:20 | |
| MinceR | and it isn't as expensive as NAS or filesystem translation. | Sep 03 15:20 |
| Sneaker net is so M$. | Sep 03 15:20 | |
| oiaohm | Devices like tom tom have big enough processor in general usage as a NAS. | Sep 03 15:20 |
| MinceR | see ballmer's quote on the practice of sw patents in the EU. | Sep 03 15:20 |
| oiaohm | Just the processor is not used in export in current setup. | Sep 03 15:21 |
| MinceR | also, it still affects companies in the EU if they are to do business with the USA | Sep 03 15:21 |
| oiaohm | Ie you don't need to add more hardware. | Sep 03 15:21 |
| Show me Ballmer's quote. That should be amusing. | Sep 03 15:21 | |
| MinceR | and if m$ gets this latest mad scheme going, the EU will be affected too. | Sep 03 15:21 |
| oiaohm | Just use the hardware already there more. | Sep 03 15:21 |
| Ever seen the movie "Downfall"? | Sep 03 15:21 | |
| the only thing M$ is moving is their stock price, going down. | Sep 03 15:22 | |
| *tacone1 has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 03 15:23 | |
| "Please make netbooks go away!" cry the faithful. | Sep 03 15:23 | |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: I see software patents from a different point of view. Software patents cause open source inteference. Stuff open source is normally flexable to work around. | Sep 03 15:23 |
| "Save us from the high margin end times." | Sep 03 15:23 | |
| MinceR | not always flexible enough. | Sep 03 15:23 |
| oiaohm | MS on the other hand. Someone applies patents they just have to pay. | Sep 03 15:24 |
| oiaohm | Vfat patent push might at long last get rid of the crappy filesystem vfat | Sep 03 15:24 |
| oiaohm | A true long filename supporting filesystem would not need write as much to disk. | Sep 03 15:25 |
| MinceR | i can't find the quote. i know i've seen it on BN. | Sep 03 15:25 |
| oiaohm | Also a true good file system would not fragement as much. | Sep 03 15:25 |
| unemployment is not going away, http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aqgweyLi6lYA | Sep 03 15:25 | |
| MinceR | oiaohm: most OSes can't read nor write any good filesystems. | Sep 03 15:25 |
| oiaohm | Basically vfat is crap and has only been used for windows comadiblity. | Sep 03 15:25 |
| Ballmer is full of quotes. He's quite a character. | Sep 03 15:25 | |
| oiaohm | Mac and Linux support other filesystems that are better and common between them MinceR | Sep 03 15:26 |
| oiaohm | All software patents threat to do for MS is cause rebellion against them. | Sep 03 15:27 |
| Amazing. Someone fell off a cruise ship and was rescued. http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=3417 | Sep 03 15:27 | |
| oiaohm | Most of the stuff they have patented is techically crap. | Sep 03 15:27 |
| oiaohm | That device makers have used because is the lazy solution for compadiblity. | Sep 03 15:28 |
| MinceR | how much power will that rebellion have behind it? | Sep 03 15:28 |
| MinceR | never enough. | Sep 03 15:28 |
| oiaohm | Enough. | Sep 03 15:28 |
| oiaohm | Items like tomtom to keep there low price cannot be paying patents. | Sep 03 15:28 |
| MinceR | not enough people care | Sep 03 15:29 |
| MinceR | and many people don't care enough. | Sep 03 15:29 |
| MinceR | for example, you don't care enough, as you've shown above. :> | Sep 03 15:29 |
| oiaohm | That is your problem. | Sep 03 15:29 |
| oiaohm | Who need to care. | Sep 03 15:29 |
| People care. See Vista Failure. | Sep 03 15:29 | |
| oiaohm | Device makers care about profit. | Sep 03 15:29 |
| Watch Vista 7 and M$ itself implode. | Sep 03 15:30 | |
| oiaohm | They will make it work for there end users without paying. | Sep 03 15:30 |
| oiaohm | Nothing so far Ms has is a 100 percent road block. | Sep 03 15:30 |
| As I pointed out, US companies are still firing people http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aqgweyLi6lYA | Sep 03 15:31 | |
| oiaohm | With the presure of patents nothing is stoping devices makers form providing a driver disk to install a filesystem on windows either. | Sep 03 15:31 |
| oiaohm | Just without patents they had no need to. | Sep 03 15:31 |
| -> companies remain focused on cutting expenses as the economy emerges from its worst recession since the 1930s. Applications fell by 4,000 to 570,000 in the week ended Aug. 29, exceeding the 564,000 median forecast of economists surveyed by Bloomberg News, figures from the Labor Department showed today in Washington. The total number of people collecting unemployment insurance climbed. The firings are one | Sep 03 15:32 | |
| I don't know why they think there will be any buying while people are being fired. | Sep 03 15:32 | |
| oiaohm | Lets just say device makers when a filesystem that just worked with Linux and Mac and not windows. | Sep 03 15:32 |
| oiaohm | So inversing the current day status of just works out box. | Sep 03 15:33 |
| -> The economy has lost 6.7 million jobs since the recession started in December 2007, the most of any downturn since the Great Depression. Even so, the 247,000 drop in payrolls reported for July was lower than economists projected.! | Sep 03 15:33 | |
| oiaohm | This has negitive effects on MS bottom line. | Sep 03 15:33 |
| oiaohm | MS has nothing to gain from software patents. But everything to lose. | Sep 03 15:34 |
| another month, another quarter million jobs gone. The usual result is another quarter million families lose their home. | Sep 03 15:34 | |
| oiaohm | MinceR: you have to remember before the vfat attack there was no talk from device makers about building a new filesystem. There is now. | Sep 03 15:35 |
| MinceR | 163809 < oiaohm> That is your problem. | Sep 03 15:36 |
| MinceR | 163824 < oiaohm> Who need to care. | Sep 03 15:36 |
| MinceR | so you don't want FLOSS to succeed after all. | Sep 03 15:36 |
| disInformation Week continues to flog the Gmail outage. | Sep 03 15:36 | |
| oiaohm | Floss will succeed no matter the road blocks. Cost is on its side MinceR. | Sep 03 15:38 |
| Good Not News Item Material -> Michael Jackson and RIAA profits will finally be laid to rest tonight, after prolonged criminal investigation. | Sep 03 15:38 | |
| oiaohm | As well as time MinceR. | Sep 03 15:39 |
| oiaohm | Software patents only last a max of 20 years. | Sep 03 15:39 |
| oiaohm | To Floss that is a short time frame. | Sep 03 15:39 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: the slower it succeeds, the more damage will happen. | Sep 03 15:39 |
| oiaohm | to a commerical OS company to MS its life or death. | Sep 03 15:39 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: also, remember that copyrights last only for a limited time, and it didn't help at all. | Sep 03 15:39 |
| hmph. LA Times smears Whole Foods movement -> http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-allen30-2009aug30,0,2592815.story | Sep 03 15:40 | |
| MinceR | they can just extend patents all the same. | Sep 03 15:40 |
| Beans, oats and other grains are cheap. | Sep 03 15:40 | |
| processed foods, obesity and cancer are expensive. | Sep 03 15:40 | |
| oiaohm | Rules of patents have been more tested than rules of copyright and more decided on what they are MinceR. | Sep 03 15:40 |
| MinceR | apparently they aren't really decided on that | Sep 03 15:41 |
| oiaohm | Heck there are copyrights in some countries that last for ever. | Sep 03 15:41 |
| MinceR | see all the sw patent stuff going on despite Bilski. | Sep 03 15:41 |
| oiaohm | Never happened with patents. | Sep 03 15:41 |
| oiaohm | No patent anywhere has ever been issued for ever. | Sep 03 15:42 |
| oiaohm | Ie life time of patents is basically decided. | Sep 03 15:42 |
| EU blocking Oracle/Sun deal? http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/sep/03/ec-investigates-oracle-sun | Sep 03 15:42 | |
| Wow, a regulator that works. | Sep 03 15:42 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Patents Roundup: Patent Propaganda from the BBC, IBM in the Shadows, and Early Mistakes from David Kappos http://ping.fm/EBKx3 | Sep 03 15:42 | |
| oiaohm | What can and cannot be patented is not decided MinceR. | Sep 03 15:43 |
| oiaohm | Copyright is the other way. | Sep 03 15:43 |
| Ick, sorry to like M$ Jack. | Sep 03 15:43 | |
| oiaohm | What can be copyrighted is decided. | Sep 03 15:43 |
| oiaohm | How long the protection should last is not. | Sep 03 15:43 |
| You can take the opposite of what he says as worth knowing. | Sep 03 15:43 | |
| -> Kroes says: "The commission has to examine very carefully the effects on competition in Europe when the world's leading proprietary database company proposes to take over the world's leading open source database company." (Quoted from Bloomberg.) | Sep 03 15:44 | |
| oiaohm | Orcale has already taken over a lot of different open source databases. | Sep 03 15:45 |
| oiaohm | regulators have been asleep at the wheel over it for a long time. | Sep 03 15:46 |
| schestowitz | or storage engines | Sep 03 15:46 |
| schestowitz | Kroes is right | Sep 03 15:46 |
| schestowitz | But only cause her advisors told her | Sep 03 15:46 |
| schestowitz | She can be boorish about tech | Sep 03 15:46 |
| schestowitz | She probably uses XP | Sep 03 15:46 |
| oiaohm | Thinking Orcales main business is not there database any more. | Sep 03 15:46 |
| ....... not even a mac....... | Sep 03 15:46 | |
| schestowitz | She also got conned into RAND when she had that meal with Ballmer | Sep 03 15:47 |
| oiaohm | Its there intergrated services. | Sep 03 15:47 |
| schestowitz | Maybe he slipped a mickey into her soup :-p | Sep 03 15:47 |
| Well, at least she's on the right track here. | Sep 03 15:47 | |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Sep 03 15:47 |
| Let's promote good behavior. | Sep 03 15:47 | |
| schestowitz | US was all giddy | Sep 03 15:47 |
| schestowitz | No regulation | Sep 03 15:47 |
| schestowitz | And Oracle uses legal bribery in EU now | Sep 03 15:47 |
| schestowitz | "Lobbying" | Sep 03 15:48 |
| schestowitz | "Forget logic, here's lot of money" | Sep 03 15:48 |
| bbl | Sep 03 15:48 | |
| *twitter has quit ("Leaving.") | Sep 03 15:48 | |
| schestowitz | Hm.. I lumped too much stuff into last post | Sep 03 15:48 |
| oiaohm | There is a main reason why I don't see software patents as a major threat to open source. | Sep 03 15:51 |
| oiaohm | Most key techs theses days are almost 20 years old. | Sep 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | "If you don't know what ExFat is...it's basically FAT64, and | Sep 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | proprietary to Microsoft and introduced with Windows Vista Sp1" | Sep 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | 'Our agreement with Microsoft does not allow us to develop an open | Sep 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | source exFAT driver at the moment. However, we have been also talking | Sep 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | about this with them. What I think nobody wants is something similar | Sep 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | what you have for example with Linux DVD players: there are open | Sep 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | source players available, but no company can support them because the | Sep 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | media companies will sue right away ..' | Sep 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/08/some-answers-fr.html | Sep 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: what does that have to do with sw pats? | Sep 03 15:52 |
| oiaohm | Who does that end up effecting schestowitz. | Sep 03 15:52 |
| *jono has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 03 15:53 | |
| oiaohm | Its the same as what video codec format people who tried changing dvd players for them. | Sep 03 15:53 |
| oiaohm | The format will end up with intermit support. | Sep 03 15:53 |
| oiaohm | So less usable to end users. | Sep 03 15:53 |
| oiaohm | What MS is doing with software patents is killing there new common formats. | Sep 03 15:54 |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 03 15:55 | |
| MinceR | 170007 < oiaohm> Most key techs theses days are almost 20 years old. | Sep 03 15:55 |
| MinceR | "most" is not "all" | Sep 03 15:56 |
| MinceR | and it takes one key tech to make a product impossible. | Sep 03 15:56 |
| oiaohm | That is also what is different now. | Sep 03 15:57 |
| MinceR | except no, it has never been different and it isn't different now | Sep 03 15:58 |
| oiaohm | Linux and OSS in general is almost to the point of being able to accept closed source bits for the key bits when need that are not 20 years old. | Sep 03 15:58 |
| MinceR | and it will never be different as long as sw patents will mean you can patent a vague idea | Sep 03 15:58 |
| MinceR | accepting proprietary bits is by no means ideal | Sep 03 15:58 |
| oiaohm | So users not majorally effected. | Sep 03 15:58 |
| MinceR | it's something to avoid, not a goal. | Sep 03 15:58 |
| oiaohm | I did not say it was ideal. | Sep 03 15:58 |
| oiaohm | The ammount of usablity damage software patents can do is min to open source. | Sep 03 15:59 |
| oiaohm | We are not forced to use pure open source to solve all problems with open source. | Sep 03 15:59 |
| MinceR | but if we are forced to use proprietary software, we lose a lot of things | Sep 03 16:00 |
| MinceR | we became hostage to its owner. | Sep 03 16:00 |
| schestowitz | Reboot for UK's 'oldest' computer < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8234428.stm > | Sep 03 16:01 |
| schestowitz | MSBBC lets us talk to a felon: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8234267.stm | Sep 03 16:02 |
| oiaohm | You are also not forced to by devices that are limited either MinceR. | Sep 03 16:03 |
| MinceR | sure | Sep 03 16:04 |
| MinceR | i could live without mobile phones | Sep 03 16:04 |
| MinceR | for example | Sep 03 16:04 |
| oiaohm | Most of what is patented is sureface annoyances. | Sep 03 16:05 |
| oiaohm | Items that people could choose just to vote with there feet against. | Sep 03 16:05 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] New screencast: "Ubuntu Partitioning" http://bit.ly/2wNeIU | Sep 03 16:05 | |
| oiaohm | So leaving particular items just sitting on the self until open source drivers are released not patented locked. | Sep 03 16:06 |
| oiaohm | I am not saying that we don't have to fight patents MinceR. | Sep 03 16:06 |
| schestowitz | GPs to ask for donor organ consent < http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/aug/31/organ-donation-nhs > | Sep 03 16:06 |
| oiaohm | I am saying they are not a live and death threat to open source. | Sep 03 16:06 |
| MinceR | maybe not life and death, but certainly a threat. | Sep 03 16:06 |
| oiaohm | More an annoyance. | Sep 03 16:07 |
| schestowitz | it's like cancer | Sep 03 16:07 |
| oiaohm | We have options of waiting them out. | Sep 03 16:07 |
| schestowitz | It won't kill you oivernight | Sep 03 16:07 |
| oiaohm | They simpley will not kill open source. | Sep 03 16:07 |
| schestowitz | Patents: the tobacco of software | Sep 03 16:07 |
| oiaohm | Open source has waited out the worst. | Sep 03 16:07 |
| MinceR | if we are immortal then yes, we can wait them out | Sep 03 16:07 |
| oiaohm | Like font rendering patents. | Sep 03 16:07 |
| oiaohm | That one is kinda key. | Sep 03 16:07 |
| oiaohm | No one likes a documents print like crap due to bad font processing. | Sep 03 16:08 |
| oiaohm | That is MS problem we have basically all ready waited out the key patents. | Sep 03 16:09 |
| oiaohm | They have to try to make new key patents or they have nothing on open source. | Sep 03 16:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "The Sermilik fjord in Greenland: a chilling view of a warming world" < http://ping.fm/wDpWI > #globalwarming | Sep 03 16:09 | |
| oiaohm | exfat is an attempt to make a new key patent. | Sep 03 16:09 |
| MinceR | as long as the sw patent system exists, we'll be forced to play their stupid game or lose. | Sep 03 16:10 |
| oiaohm | That is incorrect. | Sep 03 16:10 |
| oiaohm | Once OSS has enough market share they will have to pay by OSS rules. | Sep 03 16:10 |
| oiaohm | pay/play | Sep 03 16:10 |
| MinceR | if FLOSS can't provide key features then it can't compete | Sep 03 16:10 |
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| oiaohm | exfat is not going to effect everyone MinceR. | Sep 03 16:11 |
| oiaohm | All feature now are just fragments. | Sep 03 16:12 |
| MinceR | only those who use media in gadgets that use it. | Sep 03 16:12 |
| oiaohm | Yet all media gadgets will not use it | Sep 03 16:12 |
| oiaohm | So users will still be free to vote with feet. | Sep 03 16:12 |
| schestowitz | Bristol public given right to decide whether graffiti is art or eyesore < http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2009/aug/31/graffiti-art-bristol-public-vote > | Sep 03 16:13 |
| MinceR | i'm not so sure about that | Sep 03 16:13 |
| oiaohm | Main reason all gadgets will not use it cost MinceR | Sep 03 16:13 |
| oiaohm | Software patents shot the holder. By causing market to fragment. | Sep 03 16:14 |
| oiaohm | Its the thing MS over looked when they though software patents could damage open source. | Sep 03 16:15 |
| MinceR | then the holder will allow everyone who doesn't use FLOSS to use the patent free of charge | Sep 03 16:15 |
| oiaohm | So patent holder makes no money from patent. | Sep 03 16:15 |
| oiaohm | Again no win holding the patent. | Sep 03 16:15 |
| oiaohm | You have to pay to take out patents and keep them. | Sep 03 16:16 |
| oiaohm | There is no victory for closed source from having patents. Only a huge black hole in there bottom line. | Sep 03 16:17 |
| MinceR | they make no money from it directly, but they make FLOSS unable to compete. | Sep 03 16:17 |
| MinceR | remember that m$ is trying to utterly destroy FLOSS. | Sep 03 16:17 |
| oiaohm | I am. | Sep 03 16:17 |
| oiaohm | But the problem is attempt to utterly destroy FLOSS is destroying themselves. | Sep 03 16:18 |
| oiaohm | Everything they are attempting is having negitive effects. | Sep 03 16:18 |
| oiaohm | On them. | Sep 03 16:18 |
| MinceR | the question is who gets harmed more. | Sep 03 16:18 |
| oiaohm | MS is. | Sep 03 16:18 |
| oiaohm | Lower the profit margins they make. | Sep 03 16:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/09/02/google-granted-patent-on-homepage | Sep 03 16:19 |
| oiaohm | Less money they have for patents. | Sep 03 16:19 |
| oiaohm | Think about all the crap patents ms takes out and pays for MinceR | Sep 03 16:19 |
| MinceR | they still have a lot of money they can spend | Sep 03 16:20 |
| oiaohm | At this stage. | Sep 03 16:20 |
| MinceR | (unsure if it's money they really have, but that's irrelevant currently) | Sep 03 16:20 |
| oiaohm | Patents are basically MAD mutually assured destruction. | Sep 03 16:20 |
| oiaohm | The harder you try to fight with patents if you don't make profit they will kill you. | Sep 03 16:20 |
| oiaohm | MS would not be the only company consumed by there own patent list. | Sep 03 16:21 |
| MinceR | and many of the developers m$ is fighting has no money for this crap. | Sep 03 16:21 |
| oiaohm | So not worth sueing. | Sep 03 16:22 |
| oiaohm | Because it will cost more to sue them than the money MS could get. | Sep 03 16:22 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem there is no profit in patents. Profit with patents come from making a good product and using patents to protect from coping. | Sep 03 16:23 |
| oiaohm | Name the last good product MS made MinceR | Sep 03 16:23 |
| MinceR | they made a good product? | Sep 03 16:24 |
| oiaohm | e | Sep 03 16:24 |
| oiaohm | Excacty | Sep 03 16:24 |
| MinceR | i can name good products they've sold, but they haven't made any of them | Sep 03 16:24 |
| MinceR | Ensemble Studios made some of them | Sep 03 16:24 |
| MinceR | but they killed Ensemble | Sep 03 16:24 |
| MinceR | some font foundries made others | Sep 03 16:25 |
| oiaohm | How is MS going to profit from there patents. | Sep 03 16:25 |
| oiaohm | That is what I cannot answer. | Sep 03 16:25 |
| MinceR | they might not even profit, they're merely trying to kill FLOSS. | Sep 03 16:25 |
| oiaohm | Every time I look at it MS has nothing good enough to make profit. | Sep 03 16:25 |
| MinceR | they hope they can profit | Sep 03 16:25 |
| oiaohm | Kill Floss is impossiable. | Sep 03 16:25 |
| MinceR | if all else fails, by becoming a true patent troll with no products | Sep 03 16:25 |
| oiaohm | Best they can hope for is slow it down. | Sep 03 16:25 |
| MinceR | slowing it down causes lots of damage | Sep 03 16:26 |
| MinceR | to us | Sep 03 16:26 |
| oiaohm | Even a lot of patent trolls are going out of business. | Sep 03 16:26 |
| MinceR | they should have no right to do so | Sep 03 16:26 |
| oiaohm | Because they are finding it harder and harder to get people to pay up. | Sep 03 16:26 |
| oiaohm | We have past the peek of Patent effective extraction of money in 2008 | Sep 03 16:27 |
| oiaohm | Only a few companies left that pay up simply. 1 is MS. | Sep 03 16:27 |
| oiaohm | Patent troll is only profitable if you don't need long complex trials to make people pay up and if person you are attacking has the money to pay. | Sep 03 16:28 |
| oiaohm | So will not be forced to fight. | Sep 03 16:28 |
| oiaohm | See my issue. The time of patents as a effective weapon is passing. To use them as an effective weapon you require market dominance. | Sep 03 16:30 |
| oiaohm | Or good products | Sep 03 16:30 |
| MinceR | others may yet come up with good products | Sep 03 16:30 |
| oiaohm | Patents don't stop that. | Sep 03 16:31 |
| oiaohm | Just stop others doing it the same way. | Sep 03 16:31 |
| MinceR | those who come up with good products might use sw patents against FLOSS, though | Sep 03 16:32 |
| oiaohm | Apple freetype. | Sep 03 16:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | heh | Sep 03 16:33 |
| oiaohm | Fonts MinceR | Sep 03 16:33 |
| oiaohm | Its already happened we know the outcomes MinceR. | Sep 03 16:33 |
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| oiaohm | Most damage a patent does to open source is temp slowing down progress that is it. | Sep 03 16:34 |
| *navya (i=3ba55c93@gateway/web/freenode/x-pcwewlfzwylocdzg) has left #boycottnovell | Sep 03 16:34 | |
| oiaohm | Font patents were a hardware class. So apply in most countries that support patents. | Sep 03 16:34 |
| oiaohm | Not like far reaching patents did not exist before software patents were created. | Sep 03 16:35 |
| oiaohm | There is a lot of history on it MinceR. There is no profit using software patents against open source. Open source coders have the bad habit of working around patent limitation. | Sep 03 16:36 |
| oiaohm | So reducing the effective market for the patent. | Sep 03 16:36 |
| oiaohm | IBM is smartter than MS. Allow open source to use your patents. So work around to patents don't appear and you can rip money out of closed source companies so making patent profitiable. | Sep 03 16:37 |
| oiaohm | End result patents affective weapon against closed source. | Sep 03 16:39 |
| oiaohm | Minor distruptions to open source. | Sep 03 16:39 |
| oiaohm | I would not be supprised that once exfat comes common some patent trolls appear sueing MS over parts in it. | Sep 03 16:41 |
| oiaohm | http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39728699,00.htm Hmm I did not read this close enough. | Sep 03 16:45 |
| oiaohm | NTFS will be free and clear by there deal. | Sep 03 16:46 |
| oiaohm | Now that would be wrong if the new default file format on devices become that. | Sep 03 16:46 |
| schestowitz | brb | Sep 03 16:51 |
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| *BNc has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 03 16:52 | |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 3 16:55:19 2009 | ||
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Sep 03 16:55 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Sep 03 16:55 | |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Fri Jun 12 18:24:05 2009 | Sep 03 16:55 | |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Sep 03 16:55 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Sep 03 16:55 | |
| *BNc (n=twitfolk@cg131a.halls.manchester.ac.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 03 16:57 | |
| schestowitz | IBM Partners to Offer Green Data Center Degree < http://www.cio.com/article/501237/IBM_Partners_to_Offer_Green_Data_Center_Degree?source=rss_news > | Sep 03 16:59 |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Sep 03 17:00 | |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: many good news items in LinuxforDevices | Sep 03 17:00 |
| schestowitz | They also mended the old RSS feed | Sep 03 17:00 |
| schestowitz | They have the old URL link to the new site now | Sep 03 17:01 |
| schestowitz | It seems like Henry left | Sep 03 17:01 |
| schestowitz | After Rick | Sep 03 17:01 |
| schestowitz | So the lesser known people run the site for eWeek now | Sep 03 17:01 |
| oiaohm | I did report it when they first broke it. | Sep 03 17:04 |
| oiaohm | Aparently it just got to top of repair list. | Sep 03 17:05 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] There is a need for more patent trolls against Google. They have too much money, and they have too stupid patent agents: http://i5.be/GT | Sep 03 17:06 | |
| *neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 03 17:06 | |
| oiaohm | Patent troll vs search engine not a wise move. | Sep 03 17:07 |
| oiaohm | Many have tried. | Sep 03 17:07 |
| oiaohm | Google is extreamly good at finding prior art and rendering patents void. | Sep 03 17:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: get this | Sep 03 17:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | (you're going to love this part) | Sep 03 17:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | google owns a search engine. | Sep 03 17:08 |
| MinceR | wow, really? | Sep 03 17:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | <google> lets see here, GOOGLE! SEARCH FOR "PRIOR ART" | Sep 03 17:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | mwhahahah | Sep 03 17:09 |
| schestowitz | YouTube UK welcomes back the music < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/03/youtube_uk_music/ > How is denying people access to one's portfolio beneficial for business anyway? They never learn. | Sep 03 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Hehe | Sep 03 17:11 |
| schestowitz | Maybe that's why Google made Google patents | Sep 03 17:11 |
| schestowitz | To search for prior art to defend self ;-[ | Sep 03 17:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: wow | Sep 03 17:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats the best plan ever | Sep 03 17:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | its like a reverse patent troll troll | Sep 03 17:11 |
| schestowitz | If you're not careful, you could become recursive troll(TM) | Sep 03 17:13 |
| *wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Sep 03 17:13 | |
| oiaohm | And google was the first to put a search line in center of screen. | Sep 03 17:14 |
| oiaohm | wayback machine combind with google search engine. | Sep 03 17:15 |
| oiaohm | 2 of the biggest nightmares for patent holders. | Sep 03 17:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: bwhahaha | Sep 03 17:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | the internet: worst thing ever to people with money | Sep 03 17:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | no wonder they're always trying to destroy it | Sep 03 17:17 |
| MinceR | what a novel idea | Sep 03 17:17 |
| MinceR | putting the search line in the center of the screen | Sep 03 17:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | yarly | Sep 03 17:17 |
| MinceR | i'm simply astonished | Sep 03 17:17 |
| MinceR | seriously, they have patented that | Sep 03 17:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | probably to prevent bing from doing it | Sep 03 17:18 |
| MinceR | it's ridiculous that the USPTO allowed them to patent that | Sep 03 17:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: well | Sep 03 17:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | it could have been intentional in that its a stupid patent | Sep 03 17:19 |
| schestowitz | There's prior art | Sep 03 17:19 |
| MinceR | :) | Sep 03 17:19 |
| schestowitz | many apps put a search bar at the centre | Sep 03 17:19 |
| schestowitz | So to hell with Google's meta-employees (lawyters) | Sep 03 17:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | schestowitz: shush | Sep 03 17:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | google never does shit without a plan | Sep 03 17:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | they could be very well trying to destroy software patents | Sep 03 17:20 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Sep 03 17:20 |
| schestowitz | I saw sessions | Sep 03 17:20 |
| schestowitz | Videos | Sep 03 17:20 |
| schestowitz | Google is not against sw pats | Sep 03 17:20 |
| schestowitz | AFAIK | Sep 03 17:20 |
| schestowitz | I could find the video | Sep 03 17:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | they mostly are | Sep 03 17:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | they find them problematic | Sep 03 17:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | google is a company that creates ideas | Sep 03 17:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | patents are bad for such companies because faggots love to sue them | Sep 03 17:21 |
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| *DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-69-245-224-210.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 03 17:26 | |
| DaemonFC | on further inspection, I fixed my webcam microphone | Sep 03 17:26 |
| DaemonFC | it was Pulseaudio that was the problem, I upgraded to a newer version and edited my configuration file, it works now, and I'm not asking questions :P | Sep 03 17:27 |
| *sanskumar (n=Sans@210.212.255.131) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 03 17:27 | |
| trmanco | told ya | Sep 03 17:32 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes it does work, sometimes it doesn't | Sep 03 17:33 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes waving a live chicken over it and threatening shaman voodoo curses works | Sep 03 17:34 |
| DaemonFC | it's Pulseaudio :) | Sep 03 17:34 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3: watch the language | Sep 03 17:34 |
| schestowitz | No, sounds like Windows, DaemonFC | Sep 03 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | Pulseaudio has me more vexed sometimes than the worst Windows problems I've encountered | Sep 03 17:35 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat pumps out commercial KVM | Sep 03 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | when it *does* work, I like it | Sep 03 17:35 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/02/redhat_rhel54_launch/ | Sep 03 17:35 |
| schestowitz | > How to fix your Windows Application when it doesn?t work: | Sep 03 17:35 |
| schestowitz | > | Sep 03 17:35 |
| schestowitz | > (1) Stop and start the program | Sep 03 17:35 |
| schestowitz | > (2) Log in and log out again | Sep 03 17:35 |
| schestowitz | > (3) Reboot the machine | Sep 03 17:35 |
| schestowitz | > (4) Reinstall the application again | Sep 03 17:35 |
| schestowitz | > (5) Reinstall the operating system | Sep 03 17:35 |
| schestowitz | > (6) Dance naked around the machine, waving a rubber chicken | Sep 03 17:35 |
| schestowitz | > (7) "Take your machine back for servicing" | Sep 03 17:35 |
| schestowitz | > - Chris Wedgwood | Sep 03 17:35 |
| MinceR | lol | Sep 03 17:36 |
| schestowitz | But MinceR, it's not a joke, it's TRUE | Sep 03 17:37 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: You forgot "unhide the hidden AppData folder and delete the program settings folder" | Sep 03 17:37 |
| MinceR | i know | Sep 03 17:37 |
| DaemonFC | that usually gets whatever it is working again | Sep 03 17:37 |
| MinceR | and it's only funny until you're forced to use winblows | Sep 03 17:38 |
| MinceR | then it becomes painful | Sep 03 17:38 |
| schestowitz | "Cash4Gold Sues Consumerist, Complaints Board Over Reports On Cash4Gold Practices" http://techdirt.com/articles/20090902/0254396077.shtml | Sep 03 17:38 |
| schestowitz | Cash4Gold = bastards | Sep 03 17:38 |
| schestowitz | Nukem' to orbit | Sep 03 17:38 |
| DaemonFC | Cash4Gold is a scam, it's all over the place | Sep 03 17:38 |
| DaemonFC | they try to pay you to remove anything bad you say about them if you get high enough on Google's rankings | Sep 03 17:38 |
| schestowitz | Or they sue you | Sep 03 17:39 |
| DaemonFC | well, this is amusing..... | Sep 03 17:39 |
| DaemonFC | Banshee has not been updated for the new Last.FM API, not even on the 1.5.x branch | Sep 03 17:39 |
| trmanco | finally got filters to work in kmail | Sep 03 17:39 |
| DaemonFC | Rhythmbox still works | Sep 03 17:40 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Apparently Scott Richie *did* get around to fixing the issue I emailed him about in his Ubuntu packages for Wine | Sep 03 17:41 |
| DaemonFC | his packages are no longer tied to specific versions of libalsa | Sep 03 17:41 |
| schestowitz | THis one relates to Google's new 'patent' http://techdirt.com/articles/20090902/0123586074.shtml | Sep 03 17:41 |
| *schestowitz uses Exaile atm | Sep 03 17:41 | |
| DaemonFC | before, if you had a newer libalsa than what shipped in Ubuntu, Wine's ALSA driver wouldn't work | Sep 03 17:42 |
| DaemonFC | you have to update libalsa to update Pulseaudio, so updating Pulseaudio yourself would obvious cause that problem with Wine | Sep 03 17:42 |
| DaemonFC | *obviously | Sep 03 17:43 |
| DaemonFC | What does Last.FM stream in anyway? Sounds like Vorbis or AAC | Sep 03 17:43 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What is *this*? http://ping.fm/iSdRx | Sep 03 17:45 | |
| DaemonFC | oh this is bogus, they censor their streams | Sep 03 17:46 |
| schestowitz | California court asks: is coffee label reprinting a re-publication? http://www.out-law.com//default.aspx?page=10330 | Sep 03 17:48 |
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| schestowitz | wb, PetoKraus | Sep 03 17:49 |
| PetoKraus | hello roy | Sep 03 17:49 |
| PetoKraus | how's the tricks? | Sep 03 17:49 |
| schestowitz | All's well | Sep 03 17:49 |
| schestowitz | Had recarpeting here all morning. | Sep 03 17:50 |
| PetoKraus | hehe | Sep 03 17:55 |
| PetoKraus | i could use that too | Sep 03 17:55 |
| PetoKraus | our vacuum cleaner broke like 2 months ago | Sep 03 17:55 |
| PetoKraus | and since infiniti properties takes an infinity to reply to every request | Sep 03 17:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/03/assassins-creed-2-trailer-is-the-most-violent-music-video-ever/ | Sep 03 17:55 |
| PetoKraus | we still don't have a replacement one | Sep 03 17:55 |
| DaemonFC | http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8256/screenshot1wrd.png | Sep 03 18:10 |
| DaemonFC | http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8400/screenshot2y.png | Sep 03 18:11 |
| DaemonFC | the terminal goes crazy with fixme's and Wine has to duke it out with SecuROM, but it does win in the end | Sep 03 18:11 |
| DaemonFC | and the game installs :) | Sep 03 18:11 |
| PetoKraus | hehe | Sep 03 18:12 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@41.248.210.244) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 03 18:14 | |
| DaemonFC | also the Knights of the Nine and Shivering Isles disc works | Sep 03 18:16 |
| DaemonFC | http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/6706/screenshotcfm.png | Sep 03 18:16 |
| DaemonFC | it complains about dxdllreg.exe crashing for some reason, but it's safe to ignore that it seems, the game still works | Sep 03 18:17 |
| DaemonFC | also SecuROM gets confused after installing each disc and hangs in the terminal, a Ctrl+C will kill it | Sep 03 18:18 |
| DaemonFC | the game's already isntalled, it's too late for it to stop you | Sep 03 18:18 |
| DaemonFC | also a wineserver -k after that just to clear up any possible lingering stench | Sep 03 18:20 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Sep 03 18:20 |
| schestowitz | msec future and plans < http://dodonov.net/blog/2009/09/02/msec-future-and-plans/ > | Sep 03 18:20 |
| schestowitz | Interesting that former Mandriva employees who are not at Red Hat speak about Cooker in the mailing lists, still | Sep 03 18:21 |
| schestowitz | PetoKraus: so that letter didn't work out, then. | Sep 03 18:21 |
| schestowitz | Some landlord (in the UK I think) sued someone for using twitter to make a short message complaining | Sep 03 18:22 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Adam Williamson still posts on the Mandriva Planet | Sep 03 18:22 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: I believe that was the US | Sep 03 18:22 |
| DaemonFC | he was their community manager, to be honest I would have fired him too after a few of the things he's posted | Sep 03 18:23 |
| ThistleWeb | he tried to sue others like twitter for hosting the comments too I think | Sep 03 18:23 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: well, both RPMs | Sep 03 18:23 |
| schestowitz | Mandrake was made from Red Hat | Sep 03 18:23 |
| DaemonFC | I think he was shown the door and allowed to call it a layoff | Sep 03 18:23 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat cares more about the server anyway, so they don't compete much | Sep 03 18:23 |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva has a server version | Sep 03 18:23 |
| DaemonFC | but that's not their main business, so yeah | Sep 03 18:24 |
| schestowitz | The Ubuntu post? | Sep 03 18:24 |
| DaemonFC | among other things | Sep 03 18:24 |
| schestowitz | Or the one about encryption? | Sep 03 18:24 |
| DaemonFC | he also posted once about "respecting intellectual property" | Sep 03 18:24 |
| schestowitz | The ""asshats" post.. | Sep 03 18:24 |
| DaemonFC | that really set me off at him | Sep 03 18:24 |
| schestowitz | He mailed me about security | Sep 03 18:24 |
| schestowitz | Still disagreeing | Sep 03 18:24 |
| schestowitz | I left it at that | Sep 03 18:25 |
| schestowitz | I don't think it was his posts though | Sep 03 18:25 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva cut off other people | Sep 03 18:25 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu does quite a few things I disagree with, but nothing that can't be fixed by the user | Sep 03 18:25 |
| DaemonFC | or by another distribution that uses them as a base | Sep 03 18:25 |
| schestowitz | Besides, adamw is the only one giving them presence | Sep 03 18:25 |
| schestowitz | Duval was the interesting case | Sep 03 18:25 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I'd be pissed if I started the company then it fired me | Sep 03 18:26 |
| DaemonFC | but to be fair, he probably gave them the power to do it earlier on, not thinking that they may do it someday | Sep 03 18:26 |
| DaemonFC | putting your company on the stock exchange means it's no longer really your company | Sep 03 18:26 |
| schestowitz | Dianne Green and her hunsband | Sep 03 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Tucci the asshole (Ballmer's friend) took her out | Sep 03 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Her hunsband left | Sep 03 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Some *berg guy | Sep 03 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Then the Chieft scientist/CTO | Sep 03 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Now VMware is run by Microsoft drones | Sep 03 18:28 |
| schestowitz | Tucci must be pelased | Sep 03 18:28 |
| DaemonFC | I need to figure out how to get rid of this searchjacking link they put in Firefox, heh | Sep 03 18:31 |
| DaemonFC | the one that takes you to the "Linux Minr" customized Google search | Sep 03 18:31 |
| DaemonFC | *Mint | Sep 03 18:31 |
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| sebsebseb | hi | Sep 03 18:31 |
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| DaemonFC | http://devtoe.blogspot.com/2009/03/how-to-restore-firefox-google-search-in_07.html | Sep 03 18:47 |
| DaemonFC | Restore Google Search in Firefox on Linux Mint | Sep 03 18:47 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/56723547.html | Sep 03 18:51 |
| DaemonFC | "Leaders at Huntington County Community Schools have apparently agreed to remove those controversial bible trailers from the property of one of its schools." | Sep 03 18:51 |
| DaemonFC | "The Journal says a federal judge agreed the "By the Book Weekday Religious Instruction" program violated part of the constitution, by allowing religious instruction on school property." | Sep 03 18:51 |
| DaemonFC | what an embarrassment to this town | Sep 03 18:52 |
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| schestowitz | Weird 'articles'...... http://www.intranetjournal.com/articles/200909/ij_09_01_09a.html | Sep 03 18:54 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: LOL | Sep 03 18:55 |
| DaemonFC | my town was ordered by the federal government to stop violating the First Amendment to the US Constitution | Sep 03 18:56 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Sep 03 18:56 |
| schestowitz | Joomla responds to IBM X-Force security report | Sep 03 18:58 |
| schestowitz | "Earlier this week, an IBM X-Force report said that the open source Joomla! content management system led in unpatched vulnerabilities." | Sep 03 18:58 |
| schestowitz | http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/64Bit-Upgrade-By-Way-of-Open-Source-Isnt-BumpFree-750717/?kc=rss | Sep 03 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Separation of state.... and school... or church... or Scientology | Sep 03 18:58 |
| DaemonFC | yep | Sep 03 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | they probably saw what a pain in the ass that continuing to defend that would be | Sep 03 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | once all the other churches and religions showed up demanding to park their own trailers out there :P | Sep 03 18:59 |
| DaemonFC | nevermind the fact that the school district was using tax money to defend their case | Sep 03 19:00 |
| schestowitz | Internet celebrates 40th birthday: but what date should we be marking?: "The internet celebrates its birthday today, September 2, with 40 years having passed since the first successful transfer of data between two computers." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/6125925/Internet-celebrates-40th-birthday-but-what-date-should-we-be-marking.html | Sep 03 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Like most things, there is no universal first | Sep 03 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Like "First computer" | Sep 03 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Definition-dependent | Sep 03 19:01 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Linux Mint has Moonlight plugin | Sep 03 19:01 |
| DaemonFC | by default | Sep 03 19:01 |
| DaemonFC | I just noticed that | Sep 03 19:01 |
| schestowitz | It also has Mono | Sep 03 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | I wonder if they've strapped in for the impending lawsuit | Sep 03 19:02 |
| schestowitz | That's rubbish | Sep 03 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | well, yeah, but most GNOME distributions have Mono | Sep 03 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | but not Moonlight | Sep 03 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Codecs too? | Sep 03 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know | Sep 03 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | where can I test that? | Sep 03 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Doesn't matter | Sep 03 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Leave it @ that | Sep 03 19:02 |
| DaemonFC | I have yet to see an actual Silverlight site that works with Moonlight | Sep 03 19:02 |
| schestowitz | it's like trying to find the pony in a horse race | Sep 03 19:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/kotaku/full/~3/a0WrXQN1yw0/the-spectacular-halo+filled-bungie-studios-lobby | Sep 03 19:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | wow | Sep 03 19:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | they still have the pre-microsoft awards up | Sep 03 19:04 |
| DaemonFC | I may swing by that Stargate Universe website and see if their image gallery works | Sep 03 19:05 |
| DaemonFC | I'm kind of doubting that though | Sep 03 19:05 |
| schestowitz | *sigh* the house still smells like glue | Sep 03 19:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | well stop huffing it then | Sep 03 19:08 |
| DaemonFC | it doesn't work btw | Sep 03 19:09 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Sep 03 19:09 |
| schestowitz | I'll take a look at news | Sep 03 19:09 |
| schestowitz | Hacking Swine Flu < http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/09/hacking_swine_f.html > | Sep 03 19:10 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: It does have codecs though, they're using ffmpeg, not the Microsoft ones | Sep 03 19:10 |
| schestowitz | OK | Sep 03 19:10 |
| cubezzz-laptop | computer used to mean a person who computes :) | Sep 03 19:15 |
| DaemonFC | the 2.0 Beta doesn't work either....so much for "cross platform" | Sep 03 19:15 |
| cubezzz-laptop | finally figured out qsopcast | Sep 03 19:16 |
| cubezzz-laptop | got recording to work | Sep 03 19:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Lendo as feeds calmamente! | Sep 03 19:18 | |
| cubezzz-laptop | pre-microsoft awards? | Sep 03 19:18 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] If Windows is a Copy of the Competition, Whose OS is GNU/Linux a 'Copy' of? http://ping.fm/pqDvT | Sep 03 19:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linutop 3 is Released Into the Wild http://ping.fm/H3pUZ | Sep 03 19:23 | |
| cubezzz-laptop | everyone copied Xerox I'd say | Sep 03 19:23 |
| cubezzz-laptop | Xerox Alto FTW | Sep 03 19:25 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: hand calculators... | Sep 03 19:27 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: yes, Bungee was ruined by Microsoft | Sep 03 19:27 |
| schestowitz | They complaint just over a year ago | Sep 03 19:27 |
| schestowitz | Others was victims too | Sep 03 19:27 |
| schestowitz | FISA, Ensemble, the FLight Sim guy.... | Sep 03 19:28 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: yes, but they leaped ahead of Xerox | Sep 03 19:28 |
| schestowitz | It's all cumulative | Sep 03 19:28 |
| schestowitz | Like many FOSS projects | Sep 03 19:28 |
| schestowitz | Take WordPress for example | Sep 03 19:28 |
| schestowitz | b2 extended | Sep 03 19:28 |
| cubezzz-laptop | who was first with the gui after Xerox? | Sep 03 19:28 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure they invinted GUIs | Sep 03 19:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Library Poisoned by #DRM http://ping.fm/z90Mr Sad. | Sep 03 19:29 | |
| schestowitz | You must leap back | Sep 03 19:29 |
| cubezzz-laptop | X maybe? | Sep 03 19:29 |
| schestowitz | There's usually a whole progress that's not an overnight lip lamp | Sep 03 19:29 |
| schestowitz | Example: | Sep 03 19:29 |
| schestowitz | What if prototyping of the interface was done on paper before? | Sep 03 19:29 |
| schestowitz | Metaphoically | Sep 03 19:29 |
| schestowitz | In science it's the same | Sep 03 19:29 |
| schestowitz | Some inventions in astology were made in Alexandria | Sep 03 19:29 |
| cubezzz-laptop | right, I think Douglas Engelbart invited the mouse, perhaps before Alto | Sep 03 19:30 |
| schestowitz | After the burning of their library people rediscovered the same thing after the Dark Ages | Sep 03 19:30 |
| schestowitz | Geometry and observations in the sky mostly | Sep 03 19:30 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: I'm sure he was inspired | Sep 03 19:30 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I know of nothing before Alto re: GUI | Sep 03 19:30 |
| schestowitz | "It was Edison who said "1% inspiration, 99% perspiration". That may have been true a hundred years ago. These days it's "0.01% inspiration, 99.99% perspiration", and the inspiration is the easy part. As a project manager, I have never had trouble finding people with crazy ideas. I have trouble finding people who can execute. IOW, "innovation" is way oversold. And it sure as hell shouldn't be applied to products like MS Word or Ope | Sep 03 19:30 |
| schestowitz | n office." --Linus Torvalds | Sep 03 19:30 |
| cubezzz-laptop | but who was next after Alto, I'm wondering | Sep 03 19:30 |
| schestowitz | Linux learned from minix | Sep 03 19:30 |
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| schestowitz | *Linus | Sep 03 19:31 |
| cubezzz-laptop | Sun maybe | Sep 03 19:31 |
| cubezzz-laptop | there were quite a few in the 80's | Sep 03 19:32 |
| schestowitz | Graphics stuff -- yes | Sep 03 19:33 |
| schestowitz | ALso some stuff Apple 'stole' | Sep 03 19:33 |
| schestowitz | I put it in scare crow cause I think it's permissible and natural | Sep 03 19:33 |
| schestowitz | It's like saying "I stole my research" cause I studied from books | Sep 03 19:33 |
| schestowitz | By that definition, teachers should charge students for patents or something when educating them | Sep 03 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Many GUI ideas were trivial | Sep 03 19:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Hunt for the "Perfect Operating System" Ends with... #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux http://ping.fm/bKbvu | Sep 03 19:34 | |
| schestowitz | Esp. if you have months or years to think it over | Sep 03 19:34 |
| cubezzz-laptop | Deskmate, GEM, AmigaDOS, Mac, all around the same time | Sep 03 19:36 |
| cubezzz-laptop | but W window system was the first after Alto I think | Sep 03 19:36 |
| cubezzz-laptop | W in 83 and X in 84 | Sep 03 19:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 Fails to Match #GNU #Linux in 64-bit http://ping.fm/u0rZi | Sep 03 19:37 | |
| cubezzz-laptop | microsoft windows should not be the dominant system | Sep 03 19:37 |
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| cubezzz-laptop | I mean, what gives you real control? Not windows, certainly | Sep 03 19:38 |
| cubezzz-laptop | FOSS all the way | Sep 03 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | addons are readily available | Sep 03 19:38 |
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| DaemonFC | once you replace nearly everything that comes with Windows, it almost works OK :P | Sep 03 19:38 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: APIs | Sep 03 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Developers Developers Developers | Sep 03 19:38 |
| schestowitz | And lockin | Sep 03 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Hidden APIs | Sep 03 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Wrapping them all up | Sep 03 19:38 |
| cubezzz-laptop | Linx Kernel compile KOs windows I'd say | Sep 03 19:38 |
| schestowitz | I have Comes exhibits from the 80s about it | Sep 03 19:39 |
| schestowitz | Need doing, still | Sep 03 19:39 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: esp. on ARM | Sep 03 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: You can set the Windows bootloader to chain load GRUB, that way if you upgrade Windows later, it won't clobber GRUB and your option to boot to Linux is still there | Sep 03 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | I've never seen anyone mention that | Sep 03 19:40 |
| cubezzz-laptop | how about I just don't use windows :) | Sep 03 19:40 |
| cubezzz-laptop | w00t | Sep 03 19:40 |
| schestowitz | I never do | Sep 03 19:40 |
| schestowitz | I write about it though | Sep 03 19:40 |
| schestowitz | A lot | Sep 03 19:40 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I looked at some windows 7 screen shots, just out of curiousity | Sep 03 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | I've used it, it's clear that they're trying to clone what's worked in other systems | Sep 03 19:42 |
| cubezzz-laptop | Microsoft was never appealing, it seems it was _forced_ on the masses (and OEMs) | Sep 03 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | Paul Thurrott always somehow amuses me though | Sep 03 19:43 |
| schestowitz | Yes, Kempin et al | Sep 03 19:43 |
| schestowitz | Bullying | Sep 03 19:43 |
| schestowitz | Threats and blackmail too | Sep 03 19:43 |
| cubezzz-laptop | it's all bullying though | Sep 03 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | in his Windows Me review he foretold the death of Explorer in the then-coming Windows XP | Sep 03 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | in favor of a "highly customizable XML-based user interface" | Sep 03 19:43 |
| cubezzz-laptop | Gates was on WNED with his Dad, talking about using computers to help kids learn | Sep 03 19:43 |
| cubezzz-laptop | they never mentioned wikipedia once | Sep 03 19:44 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux #Kernel Supports the Most #Hardware http://ping.fm/tJAt5 | Sep 03 19:44 | |
| DaemonFC | then you got like three colors of one theme and had to pay extra or crack the theming engine to load more | Sep 03 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Sep 03 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | and they were just dressing up Explorer | Sep 03 19:44 |
| cubezzz-laptop | there's some really good anti-trust videos on youtube, explaining the role of government | Sep 03 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | Windows always ends up being "Bad Stuff Cordon Bleu" because once something is introduced, they can never get rid of it without breaking thousands of other applications | Sep 03 19:45 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: they believe in 'IP' | Sep 03 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | it's like a realtor that tries to cover up black mold by painting it | Sep 03 19:46 |
| schestowitz | As in, let the kids pay for knowledge when they have some pennies | Sep 03 19:46 |
| schestowitz | They think they help... the content industry | Sep 03 19:46 |
| cubezzz-laptop | yeah | Sep 03 19:46 |
| schestowitz | Drug industries too | Sep 03 19:47 |
| schestowitz | By charging | Sep 03 19:47 |
| schestowitz | As if not putting people in debt for buying life-saving drugs would mean no more development of drugs | Sep 03 19:47 |
| schestowitz | It's like saying that software development would stop overnight without diretcb profit | Sep 03 19:47 |
| schestowitz | (never mind h/w, services, etc.) | Sep 03 19:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] an excellent example in how to nail medical frauds to the wall. the ASA are really quite effective. http://bit.ly/Uv2sV (HT @bengoldacre) | Sep 03 19:48 | |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: but we can't undrstand | Sep 03 19:48 |
| *jono has quit ("Later, Skater") | Sep 03 19:48 | |
| schestowitz | You're in CA and I'm in the UK | Sep 03 19:48 |
| schestowitz | You need to ask people in Brazil | Sep 03 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Or India | Sep 03 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Or Kenya, assuming they all even understand these issues (few do) | Sep 03 19:48 |
| schestowitz | They are the vast majority of the population, not much in wealth even when combined | Sep 03 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | they basically just reverse engineer drugs made by first world companies | Sep 03 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | don't pay royalties | Sep 03 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Sot he distribution of impact is assumed to lie with the wealth of the universe, | Sep 03 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | that we way get stuck with all the development costs and they make them for pennies a tablet | Sep 03 19:49 |
| schestowitz | Not all life are created equal of the hypothesis | Sep 03 19:49 |
| schestowitz | Or 'We know better what's good for them" | Sep 03 19:49 |
| schestowitz | It's all reinforcement- and justification-based | Sep 03 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | reverse engineering and cloning is hardly new | Sep 03 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | the Soviets cloned things we made | Sep 03 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | like the Zilog Z-80 | Sep 03 19:49 |
| schestowitz | As in, the rich prick will make up some fairy tail to perfume his/her aact | Sep 03 19:49 |
| schestowitz | Then disseminate the myth | Sep 03 19:50 |
| schestowitz | See patent office for example | Sep 03 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Of the industry that calls us thieving pirates | Sep 03 19:50 |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz: As long as you pay billions of dollars to show me how to do something, I can clone what you did for a fraction of the price | Sep 03 19:50 |
| schestowitz | They have already drawn images of their customer | Sep 03 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | cloning and pulling ahead are two different things | Sep 03 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | as long as you rely on there being something to clone, you'll always be behind | Sep 03 19:50 |
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| cubezzz-laptop | I just what to have choices | Sep 03 19:51 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I shouldn't be forced to buy a windows computer | Sep 03 19:51 |
| cubezzz-laptop | sure, everyone learns from the other guy | Sep 03 19:51 |
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| DaemonFC | it's important to lead or else you become dependent on whatever other people decide to do | Sep 03 19:52 |
| DaemonFC | an example would be Ubuntu just reassembling work done by everyone else | Sep 03 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | they can never have anything new of importance as long as they have to rely on Fedora and Suse and Debian doing all the work for them | Sep 03 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | they can reassemble it and slap their logo on the side | Sep 03 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | every time they try to introduce something new, like notify-osd and the indicator crapplet it's like "Something wicked this way comes" | Sep 03 19:54 |
| DaemonFC | Linux Mint doesn't have the indicator crapplet, but you do have to set things like Pidgin to reside in the tray or else they just close | Sep 03 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | I noticed that almost anything that isn't exclusive to Mint pulls the packages out of the Ubuntu repository | Sep 03 19:56 |
| DaemonFC | nothing like getting the other guy to pay your bandwidth usage for you I guess | Sep 03 19:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vixta 7 is Already Out and It Has Amazing 3-D Features like #Compiz http://ping.fm/8SktC | Sep 03 19:57 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #CrossOver Games 8.0 Kills the " #Linux Not for #Games " Myth http://ping.fm/8ps8g | Sep 03 19:59 | |
| DaemonFC | Crossover Games will probably go on to kill Cedega | Sep 03 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | the only thing holding it back was copy protection | Sep 03 20:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The New #Slackware #Linux Seems Well Received http://ping.fm/YGPCh http://ping.fm/M9mAk http://ping.fm/CZoMn | Sep 03 20:02 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat 's Future Looks Good as Public Company http://ping.fm/pthBh http://ping.fm/ndQJL | Sep 03 20:04 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] First Details About Red Hat Enterprise #Linux 6 http://ping.fm/J4KGF #rhel | Sep 03 20:06 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Brings #KVM to Maturity http://ping.fm/pTq8x | Sep 03 20:06 | |
| DaemonFC | looks like the SoundConverter people strike again | Sep 03 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | they've dumbed down the 11 point quality scale of Vorbis to 5 settings | Sep 03 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | to get it to use q5 (~160), you have to use the gconf-editor, heh | Sep 03 20:10 |
| DaemonFC | the GUI jumps from q4 to q6 | Sep 03 20:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #Linux #Servers Target #HP Servers http://ping.fm/twWh4 | Sep 03 20:11 | |
| cubezzz-laptop | just saw an ad for a waterproof camera, the commercial shows people on bikes and the camera mounts on the handlebars | Sep 03 20:12 |
| cubezzz-laptop | for a second it looked like it was called Lunix, but it's "Lumix" :) | Sep 03 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Sep 03 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | I've been having a battle with a dimwit involving someone's computer I was working on | Sep 03 20:13 |
| MinceR | but does it run Limux? | Sep 03 20:13 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I think this is Russian TV I'm watching, not sure | Sep 03 20:14 |
| DaemonFC | it's a shared family computer and it was on Windows XP (really old system, Pentium 3 1 Ghz and 320 megs of RAM) | Sep 03 20:14 |
| cubezzz-laptop | ah, Lumix is by Panasonic | Sep 03 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | anyway, it was clobbered by spyware, this time for good, and it was going to be re-install XP anyway so I put Linux on it to try to save them from themselves | Sep 03 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | now his mother is angry because she doesn't know how to use the system, after I spent hours diligently copying over every document, picture, and MP3 they had | Sep 03 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | and making it all work | Sep 03 20:16 |
| cubezzz-laptop | DaemonFC, you have to ask for permission, I always do | Sep 03 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | well, I thought I had it | Sep 03 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | whoops | Sep 03 20:16 |
| cubezzz-laptop | don't put Linux on there without explaining first | Sep 03 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | he told me it was OK, he knows what it is | Sep 03 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | oh well, they'll get over it | Sep 03 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | they didn't even still have their Windows XP disc, the system just kind of "had it" when they bought it off someone | Sep 03 20:17 |
| cubezzz-laptop | dual boot, get both on there and if they don't like Linux then they can boot back into doze | Sep 03 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | so it's not like I could have reinstalled XP anyway | Sep 03 20:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #EU May Block #Oracle #Takeover of #MySQL http://ping.fm/VVs1X | Sep 03 20:19 | |
| cubezzz-laptop | question for the gurus: if a file is growing and the partition it's on is close to full, is it possible to move the file to /mnt/usb2 without a problem? | Sep 03 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz-laptop: If you give me the choice of a real time antivirus program and a routine backup, I'd choose the routine backup because a lot of the worst spyware damages the system | Sep 03 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | to where even if you remove it, Windows is still broken | Sep 03 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | these antivirus companies are the biggest con artists that there has ever been | Sep 03 20:20 |
| cubezzz-laptop | yeah, that's yet another reason not to use doze | Sep 03 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | even if it is free, it's because they gutted out something important or constantly bombard you with pop up advertisements to get the full thing | Sep 03 20:21 |
| cubezzz-laptop | it's like a high maintainence gf :) | Sep 03 20:21 |
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| *_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 03 20:21 | |
| DaemonFC | and even if you pay for it, it's no guarantee it will stop anything from getting through | Sep 03 20:22 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I'm very happy with Fedora 10 | Sep 03 20:22 |
| cubezzz-laptop | no inclination of using windows at all | Sep 03 20:23 |
| _goblin | hi all! | Sep 03 20:23 |
| cubezzz-laptop | hi _goblin | Sep 03 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | antivirus is like buying a warranty for your car that looks great on paper, and then in a microdot somewhere it absolves them from any responsibilities to make good on the protection you think you bought | Sep 03 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | $60 a year is steep even if it *always* worked | Sep 03 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | slowing down your system like they do is a bad price to pay even if it *always* worked | Sep 03 20:24 |
| cubezzz-laptop | DaemonFC, there's AVG free edition, and malwarebytes is free and trend micro has a free online service | Sep 03 20:25 |
| DaemonFC | almost every Windows system I work on that has been obliterated by malware is running antivirus | Sep 03 20:25 |
| cubezzz-laptop | between all of those you should be able to keep things clean | Sep 03 20:25 |
| DaemonFC | AVG is worthless | Sep 03 20:25 |
| _goblin | ClamWin was a package I used to use when I was a Windows addict. | Sep 03 20:25 |
| DaemonFC | ClamWin is OK as a second opinion I guess | Sep 03 20:25 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Kindle is Good Only When #Hacked http://ping.fm/y9OUb | Sep 03 20:26 | |
| DaemonFC | I always upload the installers I downloaded to something like Virus Total | Sep 03 20:26 |
| _goblin | sorry to butt in on the conversation..... | Sep 03 20:26 |
| DaemonFC | get the opinion of like 40 different scanners | Sep 03 20:26 |
| cubezzz-laptop | well, let me put it this way... | Sep 03 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | what I love is when like 20 of them say it's infected and the other 20 say it's not | Sep 03 20:27 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I charge $40 to reinstall XP, do the driver thing and backup the data | Sep 03 20:27 |
| cubezzz-laptop | OR I'll put Linux on for free | Sep 03 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | It's like going to two doctors, one tells you you're healthy as a horse, the other tells you you've got 6 months to live | Sep 03 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | and they both send you the bill | Sep 03 20:27 |
| cubezzz-laptop | almost no one goes for the free :-0 | Sep 03 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | and you leave knowing as little as before you asked them | Sep 03 20:27 |
| Charge $75/hour and you might do better. | Sep 03 20:28 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Alternative for Intellectual Monopolies is Proven http://ping.fm/1xEM8 http://ping.fm/fVuGq | Sep 03 20:28 | |
| Standard charges for wipe and reload are more than $100 around here, before data backup. | Sep 03 20:28 | |
| cubezzz-laptop | people think it's normal to reinstall 2 or 3 times a year | Sep 03 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | ridiculous | Sep 03 20:28 |
| cubezzz-laptop | wow, maybe I could charge a bit more then :) | Sep 03 20:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Movie Being Illegally Shared Lifts Its Success, Copyrights Challenged http://ping.fm/6XAat http://ping.fm/Oribn | Sep 03 20:29 | |
| DaemonFC | if it's family or friends, I end up working on their systems for free | Sep 03 20:29 |
| cubezzz-laptop | ok, for friends at least get a pizza or dinner | Sep 03 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | so I always try to twist their arm into choosing a Linux distribution so I won't hear from them unless something just stumps them cause it works differently than Windows | Sep 03 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | I'd rather spend a few minutes answering a question about how something works then spending 5-6 hours once every couple months reinstalling Windows for them | Sep 03 20:30 |
| cubezzz-laptop | dual boot works for most folks | Sep 03 20:30 |
| trmanco | can somebody shout at me, I want to test something | Sep 03 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | it may, but I'd rather be done with Windows, for a number of reasons | Sep 03 20:31 |
| this is something that can and should be fixed in comments -> in pro-Microsoft posts, there’s LOTS of Microsoft keywords, the post is littered with them, which makes them great consumption for the spiders, yet when it’s stories which are negative, Microsoft keywords are hardly mentioned | Sep 03 20:31 | |
| DaemonFC | trmanco trmanco trmanco | Sep 03 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | now he appears behind me | Sep 03 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Sep 03 20:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Type of #IntellectualMonopoly Shows #USPTO Needs to be Disbanded http://ping.fm/SaRKi http://ping.fm/bDaNk | Sep 03 20:32 | |
| TRMANCO HAS A WONDERFUL TEST FOR EVERYONE!!!!!! -> trmanco: can somebody shout at me, I want to test something | Sep 03 20:32 | |
| is that loud enough? | Sep 03 20:32 | |
| trmanco | it doesn't seem so | Sep 03 20:32 |
| trmanco | ... | Sep 03 20:32 |
| trmanco | konversation didn't warn me of anything | Sep 03 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I think I attracted another astroturfing agency | Sep 03 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | linked from a "Buzz Metrics" | Sep 03 20:33 |
| trmanco, trmanco, trmanco | Sep 03 20:33 | |
| trmanco | please shout again | Sep 03 20:33 |
| (12:40:24 PM) twitter: TRMANCO HAS A WONDERFUL TEST FOR EVERYONE!!!!!! -> trmanco: can somebody shout at me, I want to test something | Sep 03 20:33 | |
| trmanco | dang | Sep 03 20:34 |
| trmanco | still not notifying me | Sep 03 20:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Hypocrisy @ The Register: El Reg Writers Get #Schwag from #Microsoft, The Register Whines http://ping.fm/PpI8z | Sep 03 20:35 | |
| The M$ Register? | Sep 03 20:37 | |
| The Cash Register? | Sep 03 20:37 | |
| cubezzz-laptop | the first time is always free :) | Sep 03 20:38 |
| cubezzz-laptop | then... you PAY | Sep 03 20:38 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft's #Patent Thug #Myhrvold Uses Satellites to do the #Trolling http://ping.fm/ElbfR | Sep 03 20:39 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Shows It Does Not Give a * About Security http://ping.fm/Xh3lK | Sep 03 20:39 | |
| trmanco | twitter: can you please try again... | Sep 03 20:39 |
| trmanco | Sep 03 20:39 | |
| trmanco | haha | Sep 03 20:39 |
| trmanco | c000l | Sep 03 20:39 |
| trmanco | it now works | Sep 03 20:39 |
| trmanco | that was easy | Sep 03 20:39 |
| secret? | Sep 03 20:39 | |
| trmanco | nah | Sep 03 20:39 |
| I've had trouble with Kopete too. | Sep 03 20:40 | |
| where | Sep 03 20:40 | |
| 's the setting? | Sep 03 20:40 | |
| trmanco | all I did was configure notifications in konversation to work with knotify | Sep 03 20:40 |
| ok, thanks | Sep 03 20:40 | |
| trmanco | in konversation I went to settings>configure notifications | Sep 03 20:41 |
| trmanco | I thought that the highlight options would do the job but it didn't | Sep 03 20:41 |
| hmmm. | Sep 03 20:42 | |
| of a key jobs report Friday. They always wait for Friday afternoon for bad news. | Sep 03 20:42 | |
| trmanco | I'm loving kde | Sep 03 20:43 |
| trmanco | I don't regret that change | Sep 03 20:43 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I'm using old kde still | Sep 03 20:44 |
| KDE is nice. E16 is still my favorite. I still use Pidgin and notifications were a sticking point. | Sep 03 20:44 | |
| cubezzz-laptop | 3.4.2 it does the job on my old box | Sep 03 20:44 |
| Lenny lost the independent KDE panel, now I use stalone tray. | Sep 03 20:44 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Venda de computadores em Portugal aumenta 61,4 por cento: http://is.gd/2QvPx | Sep 03 20:45 | |
| trmanco | 4.3.1 works | Sep 03 20:45 |
| trmanco | still has some bugs but nothing big | Sep 03 20:45 |
| Woops, that's testing that lost the panel. | Sep 03 20:45 | |
| trmanco | it's not a vanilla kde | Sep 03 20:45 |
| testing is now on 4.2 something | Sep 03 20:46 | |
| trmanco | so it's "update-notifier-kde" in python is a resource hog | Sep 03 20:46 |
| Konqueror is 4.2 has some nice new goodies but has lost some things too. | Sep 03 20:46 | |
| trmanco | it's a known memory leak... 230 megs after 1 days of uptime just for a applet | Sep 03 20:46 |
| I still get my work done with KDE 3.5 | Sep 03 20:46 | |
| trmanco | I use konquerer from time to time | Sep 03 20:47 |
| trmanco | it should move top webkit | Sep 03 20:47 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I thought that KDE 4+ was overly elaborate | Sep 03 20:47 |
| trmanco | to* | Sep 03 20:47 |
| cubezzz-laptop | if I get a new box I'll try it again | Sep 03 20:47 |
| trmanco | it hogs 230 megs at startup | Sep 03 20:48 |
| trmanco | no swap | Sep 03 20:48 |
| Sales not as bad as predicted, only half missed their mark, ha ha. Happy days are here again... -> http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200909031507DOWJONESDJONLINE000684_FORTUNE5.htm | Sep 03 20:48 | |
| not | Sep 03 20:48 | |
| trmanco | it«s not bad taking into consideration all the eyecandy it has | Sep 03 20:48 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: depends on how much RAM you have | Sep 03 20:49 |
| schestowitz | I reckon it sees how much is available | Sep 03 20:49 |
| cubezzz-laptop | Linux doesn't give one it's creation time does it? | Sep 03 20:49 |
| trmanco | right now it's hogging 650 MB of ram 93 MB of swap and I have a bunch of app open | Sep 03 20:49 |
| cubezzz-laptop | for a file? | Sep 03 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Then allocates some spares | Sep 03 20:49 |
| trmanco | I'm seeing this with htop | Sep 03 20:50 |
| trmanco | I actually like it | Sep 03 20:51 |
| *wallclimber (n=ozma@ip98-165-33-243.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 03 20:51 | |
| trmanco | I'm still in that fase of transitions | Sep 03 20:51 |
| trmanco | and I also have some gnome stuff loaded | Sep 03 20:51 |
| trmanco | kde is lighter | Sep 03 20:51 |
| ZDNet and Amazon try to lecture Google on Copywrong. "Make it like 1984" they might as well tell everyone. http://government.zdnet.com/?p=5349 | Sep 03 20:52 | |
| "No libraries, please. Sharing is bad." | Sep 03 20:53 | |
| Tooth and nail riot. http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2009/09/town_hall_talk_mans_fingertip.html | Sep 03 20:54 | |
| cubezzz-laptop | we must leverage our IP (since we don't manufacture anything) | Sep 03 20:54 |
| cubezzz-laptop | j/k | Sep 03 20:55 |
| DaemonFC | sure they do | Sep 03 20:55 |
| DaemonFC | they manufacture frivolous lawsuits | Sep 03 20:55 |
| DaemonFC | that kind of puts them in the manufacturing business, right? B-) | Sep 03 20:56 |
| cubezzz-laptop | Unix doesn't store file creation time, doh | Sep 03 20:56 |
| cubezzz-laptop | it seems Linux doesn't either | Sep 03 20:56 |
| DaemonFC | it stores last access timestamp | Sep 03 20:57 |
| DaemonFC | unless you mount it without that option which some people don't like because it confuses 2-3 programs like Pine | Sep 03 20:57 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Sep 03 20:58 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I want to know file creation time though | Sep 03 20:58 |
| cubezzz-laptop | oh well | Sep 03 20:58 |
| *wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Sep 03 21:01 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Just finished watching the 6th episode of Cosmos http://ping.fm/ashNB YouTube has all the episodes. On to 7th... | Sep 03 21:02 | |
| DaemonFC | I finally switched over to Ext4 which doesn't have the sheer tweak potential of XFS | Sep 03 21:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Nuclear beer: Old Tom Cat, 8.5%. Only sold in small bottles, not pints. Very nice, but by crikey you can taste the alc/vol. | Sep 03 21:07 | |
| DaemonFC | but it has enough of the features of XFS that I'm OK with it | Sep 03 21:07 |
| schestowitz | Hahaha. It's called the "Milky Way" cause the stars are milk from the breast of a goddesses, said the Greek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyzFQtqyFYE&NR=1 WHy the obsession with sexual organs in superstition? | Sep 03 21:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz cosmos is one of the best tv series ever ever ever. get the dvds http://is.gd/2QA1P | Sep 03 21:28 | |
| cubezzz-laptop | I'm just barely old enough to remember the original star trek on NBC :) | Sep 03 21:29 |
| cubezzz-laptop | cosmo is old isn't it? | Sep 03 21:30 |
| cubezzz-laptop | cosmos | Sep 03 21:30 |
| DaemonFC | my dad had it on Select-A-Vision discs | Sep 03 21:31 |
| DaemonFC | you tell me | Sep 03 21:31 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Sep 03 21:31 |
| neighborlee | eww thats going way too far back ;0-0 | Sep 03 21:31 |
| neighborlee | but they were sorta kewl for the time :) | Sep 03 21:32 |
| cubezzz-laptop | Select-A-Vision? | Sep 03 21:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/KyopAoFefAg/Ubuntu-904-On-Kindle-2 | Sep 03 21:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | look at subby's nick | Sep 03 21:32 |
| DaemonFC | http://retrothing.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/selectavision.jpg | Sep 03 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | Sep 03 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz: It's like vinyl records only you don't take them out of the case | Sep 03 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | the player does that | Sep 03 21:33 |
| neighborlee | woah never seen that..I thought you meant those hand held jobbies o_0 | Sep 03 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | each side holds just over an hour of video | Sep 03 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 03 21:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | laserdisc? | Sep 03 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | no | Sep 03 21:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | ooh, what then? | Sep 03 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | this predates laserdisc by over a decade | Sep 03 21:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | but whaaaat is it? | Sep 03 21:34 |
| cubezzz-laptop | kindle is evil, no? | Sep 03 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | I already described them | Sep 03 21:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | whats the name of it | Sep 03 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.retrothing.com/2005/10/rca_selectavisi.html | Sep 03 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | selectavision | Sep 03 21:34 |
| neighborlee | ubuntu is the evil not kindle LOL..im revisiting using pcbsd so they can keep mono all they want | Sep 03 21:35 |
| neighborlee | I know other friends who were fed up with ubuntu too and going to pcbsd | Sep 03 21:35 |
| neighborlee | shrug | Sep 03 21:35 |
| cubezzz-laptop | DaemonFC, you can corner the market on select-a-vision to digital conversion :) | Sep 03 21:35 |
| DaemonFC | why would you want to? | Sep 03 21:35 |
| DaemonFC | DVDs have twice the resolution | Sep 03 21:35 |
| DaemonFC | and they fit on one side of the disc :P | Sep 03 21:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | whaaaaaaat | Sep 03 21:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | no way | Sep 03 21:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | a record with video on it? | Sep 03 21:36 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3: Yes | Sep 03 21:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | wow | Sep 03 21:36 |
| cubezzz-laptop | can it record?? | Sep 03 21:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | I knew RCA was dumb, but wow | Sep 03 21:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz-laptop: no | Sep 03 21:36 |
| cubezzz-laptop | now I'm wondering if anyone did video on cassette tape :-) | Sep 03 21:38 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Sep 03 21:38 |
| DaemonFC | Sony | Sep 03 21:38 |
| DaemonFC | VHS-C | Sep 03 21:39 |
| DaemonFC | remember those? | Sep 03 21:39 |
| cubezzz-laptop | yeah I have those | Sep 03 21:39 |
| cubezzz-laptop | right, duh :) | Sep 03 21:39 |
| DaemonFC | throughout the 80s and most of the 90s it was a race between RCA (later Thomson) and Sony over who could come up with the dumbest shit | Sep 03 21:40 |
| DaemonFC | now it seems to be Microsoft and Sony | Sep 03 21:40 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft via proxy of Toshiba lost the HD-DVD vs Blu Ray fight | Sep 03 21:41 |
| DaemonFC | now it's still XBOX 360 vs PS3 for gaming | Sep 03 21:41 |
| DaemonFC | it's really getting to where the digital file formats are far more important than the physical media | Sep 03 21:42 |
| neighborlee | there is no war there..ps3 pwns | Sep 03 21:42 |
| neighborlee | lol | Sep 03 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | and so Microsoft was hoping to get VC-1 popular | Sep 03 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | so they could roll in royalty money | Sep 03 21:42 |
| neighborlee | seriously..who wants to spend an extra $100 just to get online, when you can have a ps3 bluray machine for same price or a bit less,,I cant imagine who | Sep 03 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | well, PS3 is losing more money | Sep 03 21:43 |
| neighborlee | but yes pooor MS needs something at least they can call a success since vista andwin7 sure aint it,,yet..at least from stats ive seen of late suppporters ofwin7 | Sep 03 21:44 |
| neighborlee | I seriusly doubt that | Sep 03 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | they can't keep offering free online service, that's just killing them faster | Sep 03 21:44 |
| neighborlee | hwo do you lose more than ms did on 360..I seriously doubt that | Sep 03 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | cause the PS3 isn't exactly reliable either | Sep 03 21:44 |
| neighborlee | yes, it is | Sep 03 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | it's just not AS unreliable as the 360 | Sep 03 21:44 |
| neighborlee | ive never had one problem. | Sep 03 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | Sony has a track record of bad hardware | Sep 03 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | PS2 disc drive lasers dying | Sep 03 21:45 |
| DaemonFC | Sony charges $100 to fix their manufacturing defects | Sep 03 21:45 |
| neighborlee | my ps2 was perfect,,until I traded it in for a wii | Sep 03 21:45 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft does it for free | Sep 03 21:45 |
| neighborlee | I hate it for several yeras | Sep 03 21:45 |
| neighborlee | ears | Sep 03 21:45 |
| cubezzz-laptop | dvd/bluray stuff doesn't have good longevity | Sep 03 21:45 |
| neighborlee | my friend still has her and she'es never given any indication of any troubles | Sep 03 21:45 |
| cubezzz-laptop | spindle motor always goes | Sep 03 21:45 |
| neighborlee | url ? | Sep 03 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | so really if your PS3 dies even once you've paid the equivalent of 3.5 years on XBOX Live | Sep 03 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 03 21:46 |
| neighborlee | not if you factor in the price of a wireless device LOL | Sep 03 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | they're both pumping you for the same amount of money | Sep 03 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | just have different pea and shell games | Sep 03 21:46 |
| neighborlee | AND if you factor in, that everyone you talk to for 360 support.could not handle speaking good engrish | Sep 03 21:47 |
| DaemonFC | and now you can't even run Linux on a PS3 anymore | Sep 03 21:47 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I've gone through a ton of cdr drives since 1998 | Sep 03 21:47 |
| cubezzz-laptop | 1 year warranty FTL | Sep 03 21:47 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz-laptop: When a DVD-RW drive dies, you can get a new one for $20 | Sep 03 21:48 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Alan #Turing story on #Newsnight tonight! http://is.gd/2QCbF that's in half an hour. on the website later, presumably. here's to August :-D | Sep 03 21:48 | |
| DaemonFC | it's like they're disposable anyway | Sep 03 21:48 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I don't what disposable | Sep 03 21:48 |
| cubezzz-laptop | want even | Sep 03 21:48 |
| DaemonFC | well, everything wears out | Sep 03 21:48 |
| cubezzz-laptop | it could last a _bit_ longer | Sep 03 21:48 |
| DaemonFC | this $20 drive is better than a $100 drive would have been 4-5 years ago | Sep 03 21:48 |
| cubezzz-laptop | or at least be repairable | Sep 03 21:48 |
| DaemonFC | and better than a $300 drive 6-8 years ago | Sep 03 21:49 |
| cubezzz-laptop | the VFD works, the power supply works, just the spindle motor is gone, so the whole thing is useless | Sep 03 21:49 |
| DaemonFC | prices go down, manufacturing costs even out, patents expire, and the reliability goes up | Sep 03 21:49 |
| DaemonFC | if you buy the first generation of any hardware you're an idiot | Sep 03 21:49 |
| cubezzz-laptop | so for the sake of a $10 part I have to buy a whole new unit | Sep 03 21:50 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz-laptop: I meant internal burners | Sep 03 21:50 |
| DaemonFC | takes you like 5 minutes to swap it out | Sep 03 21:50 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 03 21:50 |
| cubezzz-laptop | oh sorry, I was talking stand-alone dvd player | Sep 03 21:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz you really don't want to watch cosmos at YouTube quality. get the dvds :-) | Sep 03 21:51 | |
| DaemonFC | oh, those are like $40 at any Walmart | Sep 03 21:51 |
| DaemonFC | the upconverting ones that also support DivX and h.264 files are not more than $70 | Sep 03 21:51 |
| cubezzz-laptop | yeah I ended up buying a pioneer | Sep 03 21:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://www.biglionmusic.com/content/virt_-_thriller_vrc6.mp3 | Sep 03 21:51 |
| cubezzz-laptop | if I could get 10 years out of some electronic device, and sometimes I do, I'd be happy with that | Sep 03 21:52 |
| cubezzz-laptop | obviously a lot of stuff isn't built to last that long | Sep 03 21:53 |
| amarsh04 | I ended up buying a low-end pioneer dvd player for my parents - looks like it was built to last and if fine for use with an analogue tv | Sep 03 21:53 |
| DaemonFC | I don't buy Sony products | Sep 03 21:54 |
| DaemonFC | haven't bought a Sony product since the XCP rootkit scandal | Sep 03 21:54 |
| cubezzz-laptop | well, I don't shop at Walmart :) | Sep 03 21:54 |
| DaemonFC | I still have a PS2 | Sep 03 21:54 |
| DaemonFC | Windows is popular because it's all they have at Walmart | Sep 03 21:55 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I was pretty disappointed with my last sony dvd player, that's why I switched to pioneer | Sep 03 21:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://www.biglionmusic.com/content/virt_-_micro_media_broth.mp3 | Sep 03 21:55 |
| DaemonFC | Mary Jane Rottencratch and her Walmart eMachine | Sep 03 21:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | virt is your god | Sep 03 21:55 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 03 21:55 |
| DaemonFC | *Rottencrotch | Sep 03 21:55 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Does HP still tell customers that have installed Linux to go eat shit? | Sep 03 21:56 |
| cubezzz-laptop | not the devs I'm sure | Sep 03 21:56 |
| cubezzz-laptop | or internal guys :) | Sep 03 21:57 |
| DaemonFC | I think my favorite HP experience was sending in my Compaq laptop in over a malfunctioning touchpad | Sep 03 21:57 |
| DaemonFC | I sent it in with Mandriva and got it back with XP | Sep 03 21:57 |
| cubezzz-laptop | HP has there own *nix don't they? | Sep 03 21:57 |
| cubezzz-laptop | their | Sep 03 21:57 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but they're not pushing it anymore | Sep 03 21:57 |
| DaemonFC | HP-UX | Sep 03 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | they also have Compaq's Tru64 | Sep 03 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | they don't sell it but they still honor the existing support contracts | Sep 03 21:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://www.biglionmusic.com/content/v-ktmri.mp3 | Sep 03 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | I think you can still buy a server with HP-UX | Sep 03 21:59 |
| DaemonFC | but their real business is selling Red Hat | Sep 03 21:59 |
| DaemonFC | if your customers twist your arm and tell you they're buying Linux from SOMEONE..... | Sep 03 21:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | who? hp? | Sep 03 21:59 |
| DaemonFC | well, that's why HP started giving it to them | Sep 03 21:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | dude, they're buying sun's hardware business | Sep 03 21:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♻ @cenourinha: RT @_joanasilva_ RT @itwitting: Foram descobertos dois anticorpos que neutralizam o vírus da Sida http://www.ionline.pt/c ... | Sep 03 22:00 | |
| DaemonFC | RHEL and Suse are the only things you're likely to see on a corporate server | Sep 03 22:00 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu hasn't had a great deal of success getting their stuff preinstalled on anything that's likely to turn them a profit | Sep 03 22:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♻ @cenourinha: ♻ @_joanasilva_ ♻ @itwitting: Foram descobertos dois anticorpos que neutralizam o vírus da Sida http://www.ionline.pt/c21330 | Sep 03 22:01 | |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 03 22:02 | |
| DaemonFC | I never really understood why they were giving away free CDs including shipping and thought that they were going to make any money | Sep 03 22:03 |
| DaemonFC | if Canonical goes under, the freeloaders will just go somewhere else | Sep 03 22:03 |
| DaemonFC | Debian isn't trying to turn a profit, just get the bills paid | Sep 03 22:03 |
| MinceR | http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/09/03/1616220/IBMs-Supreme-Court-Brief-Says-That-Patents-Drive-Free-Software?from=rss | Sep 03 22:03 |
| MinceR | etf | Sep 03 22:03 |
| MinceR | wtf | Sep 03 22:03 |
| DaemonFC | that's a knee slapper | Sep 03 22:04 |
| DaemonFC | I like that line "just as hurricanes fuel the construction industry" | Sep 03 22:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] “Come on in the waters lovely” – Novell RH support? & IE Woes? http://tinyurl.com/n3zua7 #linux #windows #microsoft #ie #novell | Sep 03 22:11 | |
| DaemonFC | _goblin: I mentioned Novell offering support for RHEL, it's part of their "transition to Suse" offering | Sep 03 22:12 |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-217-50.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 03 22:12 | |
| _goblin | poor old Novell....I wonder if they regret signing a deal yet....? | Sep 03 22:12 |
| _goblin | distrowatch has them dropping in the charts.... | Sep 03 22:12 |
| DaemonFC | OpenSuse isn't a bad distribution, but I can't say I care for Novell | Sep 03 22:12 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Graham Chapman's eulogies http://bit.ly/tTTQy Perfect! | Sep 03 22:13 | |
| _goblin | 10.3 was described as "bloated" and "slow" | Sep 03 22:13 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, they lost their spot to Linux Mint | Sep 03 22:13 |
| DaemonFC | 11.1 is pretty good | Sep 03 22:13 |
| _goblin | maybe thats what they think will attract Windows users....after all Windows users are no strangers to those "features" | Sep 03 22:13 |
| DaemonFC | but yeah, I didn't like any of the 10.x versions | Sep 03 22:13 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @_Goblin it actually says something about #opensource business models that not many buy 3rd party support that tries to poach on 2nd party | Sep 03 22:14 | |
| DaemonFC | It's not really any more bloated than most distros | Sep 03 22:14 |
| _goblin | performance wise I would argue that. | Sep 03 22:14 |
| DaemonFC | the way they organize the programs menu and Yast makes it feel that way though | Sep 03 22:14 |
| MinceR | it may be not bloated, but it's crap | Sep 03 22:14 |
| _goblin | and fps tests Ive conducted on previous versions. | Sep 03 22:14 |
| _goblin | infact its even slower than Ubuntu.... | Sep 03 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is constantly the top performer in most areas | Sep 03 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | at least according to Phoronix | Sep 03 22:16 |
| _goblin | nope, don't think so...unless its being compared to Redmonds offerings | Sep 03 22:16 |
| DaemonFC | but all the leading distributions are close | Sep 03 22:16 |
| _goblin | Wolvix then Gentoo on my machines far outperform any of the "mainstream" distro's | Sep 03 22:16 |
| DaemonFC | there's some performance you can wring out of the system with your own kernel, but I doubt it'll ever be more than 2-3% | Sep 03 22:17 |
| _goblin | true, but with multiple emulation projects running it makes a hell of a difference (for example) | Sep 03 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | and it's not worth the maintenance hell that it brings with it | Sep 03 22:18 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Where My Money Goes by @addedentry http://www.flickr.com/photos/addedentry/3884400699/ I empathise | Sep 03 22:18 | |
| _goblin | and Wolvix has required very little effort on my part. | Sep 03 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | those "compile every package" distros are pure unfiltered pain in the ass | Sep 03 22:18 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I'm sure some leaner distros run a bit faster | Sep 03 22:18 |
| _goblin | the only extra effort was the installation of nvidia drivers which was not as "autopilot" as Ubuntu. | Sep 03 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | to try to wring the last percent or two out of the system once you spend hours, days, or weeks compiling | Sep 03 22:19 |
| neighborlee | DaemonFC, on that we can agree for sure I never really saw much gain for the pain lol | Sep 03 22:19 |
| _goblin | no compiling needed DaemonFC...infact Wolvix was up and running quicker than Ubuntu. | Sep 03 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, I know there's a few Gentoo-based systems that use binaries in their portage trees in some cases | Sep 03 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | that just strikes me as even more inconsistent | Sep 03 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | (Sabayon) | Sep 03 22:20 |
| _goblin | compiling is hardly difficult (in respect of packages) | Sep 03 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | depends on the package | Sep 03 22:20 |
| _goblin | google? | Sep 03 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox takes at least 15 times longer to compile than a kernel | Sep 03 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | that's just one thing | Sep 03 22:20 |
| _goblin | yes if you want latest (although packages are available usually) | Sep 03 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | binary packages have problems but at least they install today :) | Sep 03 22:21 |
| _goblin | Wolvix I believe at the time shipped with the latest FF..... | Sep 03 22:22 |
| MinceR | source-based packages don't always succeed to install | Sep 03 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | the only reason I'd care about how you make a Linux system from the ground up is if I was making my own distribution | Sep 03 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | and didn't want to use other people's package system | Sep 03 22:23 |
| _goblin | very true Mincer although I think you'd be hard pushed not to find a solution which has step by step instructions on Google. | Sep 03 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | Linux From Scratch is how you do it if you're just morbidly curious | Sep 03 22:25 |
| MinceR | i prefer the solution that involves using binary packages | Sep 03 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | but you won't be done compiling the system for weeks | Sep 03 22:25 |
| MinceR | after all, the whole point of using a package manager is to make packages install quickly, easily and reliably | Sep 03 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | and resolve dependencies and track orphans | Sep 03 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | that's not easy to do by yourself | Sep 03 22:26 |
| _goblin | yes it is.... | Sep 03 22:26 |
| _goblin | it may be long winded (sometimes) | Sep 03 22:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Newsnight covering the Alan Turing apology story tonight on BBC2 | Sep 03 22:27 | |
| DaemonFC | no human would want to waste their time with that | Sep 03 22:27 |
| MinceR | well, i'm not sure if orphan tracking is really solved anywhere | Sep 03 22:27 |
| _goblin | how long have Windows users pained over issues on their platform.... | Sep 03 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Apt handles them fine | Sep 03 22:27 |
| MinceR | it handles them, but it isn't necessarily what the user wanted | Sep 03 22:27 |
| MinceR | he might get used to using an app that was brought in as a dependency | Sep 03 22:27 |
| MinceR | or an app installed from source might depend on such a package | Sep 03 22:28 |
| MinceR | i think it's going to be extremely difficult to implement perfectly | Sep 03 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: you can unmark a package as a dependency | Sep 03 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | using Aptitude | Sep 03 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | you can also unlink a metapackage from all currently installed packages that depend on it | Sep 03 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | that's not necessarily a good thing though | Sep 03 22:29 |
| MinceR | yeah, ubuntu likes to say they depend on their metapackages for upgrades | Sep 03 22:30 |
| MinceR | yet those metapackages bring in pulseaudio :/ | Sep 03 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, the new version of the meta might depend on new items that are in the new Ubuntu version | Sep 03 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Sep 03 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | without that you may very well get a broken or incomplete system if you dist upgrade | Sep 03 22:31 |
| MinceR | well, anyway, i just leave orphans on the system :) | Sep 03 22:31 |
| DaemonFC | they don't harm anything either | Sep 03 22:31 |
| DaemonFC | it just warns you about them everytime you uninstall anything using apt-get | Sep 03 22:31 |
| DaemonFC | Synaptic also has a filter that tracks them | Sep 03 22:31 |
| DaemonFC | so you can remove just the ones you know you don't need :) | Sep 03 22:32 |
| DaemonFC | anyway, I'd rather have something watching for them than not have anything watching while they accumulate | Sep 03 22:32 |
| MinceR | it would be nice if _everything_ installed could be managed by the package manager | Sep 03 22:34 |
| MinceR | i'd start with something like gobolinux :) | Sep 03 22:34 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think anyone has figured that out | Sep 03 22:34 |
| MinceR | it's horribly difficult | Sep 03 22:34 |
| DaemonFC | Apt is the best I've seen and even it has problems | Sep 03 22:35 |
| MinceR | supporting other package formats, running ldd on binaries, etc. | Sep 03 22:35 |
| DaemonFC | well, rPath Linux has a bizarre package manager, have you seen it? | Sep 03 22:35 |
| DaemonFC | I tried using Foresight and couldn't wrap my head around it | Sep 03 22:36 |
| MinceR | i've seen it, it's a catastrophe | Sep 03 22:36 |
| DaemonFC | ended up with a new coaster | Sep 03 22:36 |
| MinceR | it killed itself on the first day | Sep 03 22:36 |
| MinceR | i tried to install KDE, had to remove xdm or something because it conflicted, and on that command it failed, next time i tried to run conary it said the executable was corrupted | Sep 03 22:36 |
| DaemonFC | well, the funky package format is bad enough, but it would be OK if they had the number of packages other distributions do | Sep 03 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | they don't though | Sep 03 22:37 |
| MinceR | it would be OK if the damn package manager worked instead of mangling itself | Sep 03 22:37 |
| MinceR | as it is, i'd rather use apt | Sep 03 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | I'm liking Mint pretty well, it's like Suse without the horrible parts like Yast | Sep 03 22:39 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know what possessed them to throw in Moonlight though | Sep 03 22:40 |
| DaemonFC | I rather suspect that the guy who put Mint together is an ex-Suse user who hated Yast | Sep 03 22:41 |
| MinceR | so that's why it's green | Sep 03 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | it has the same GTK+ theme engine as OpenSuse | Sep 03 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | so all the themes look similar | Sep 03 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | I'm using the blue Peppermint theme though | Sep 03 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 03 22:43 |
| DaemonFC | I figured out what was missing though | Sep 03 22:49 |
| DaemonFC | the BSOD screensaver :) | Sep 03 22:49 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft/Waggener Edstrom Vista 7 Laptop Giveaways Still Paying Off http://ping.fm/A92CQ | Sep 03 22:50 | |
| *Diablo-D3 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Sep 03 22:55 | |
| *Balrog_ (n=Balrog@pool-173-59-78-215.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 03 23:09 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] just made it out of tvtropes.org alive. jesus. i should know better. | Sep 03 23:11 | |
| _goblin | Quote "I'm liking Mint pretty well, it's like Suse without the horrible parts like Yast" - Why? Because its green? | Sep 03 23:13 |
| DaemonFC | better default setup, better GUI than Ubuntu | Sep 03 23:15 |
| DaemonFC | I don't have to mess with it | Sep 03 23:16 |
| DaemonFC | the first thing a user has to do shouldn't be figure out how to make the theme not look ugly | Sep 03 23:16 |
| MinceR | installing moonblight is hardly an improvement though | Sep 03 23:18 |
| DaemonFC | meh, nothing uses it, easy to get rid of if you care | Sep 03 23:19 |
| MinceR | how difficult is it to kill pulseaudio with fire from mint? | Sep 03 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | uninstall it and set everything to use ALSA | Sep 03 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | same as Ubuntu | Sep 03 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | you probably want to install esound, which is available | Sep 03 23:21 |
| MinceR | ic | Sep 03 23:21 |
| _goblin | DaemonFC: If you find anything challenging about the Ubuntu setup, I'd suggest computing isnt for you. | Sep 03 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | not challenging | Sep 03 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | jsut a chore | Sep 03 23:22 |
| MinceR | how does mint fair robustness-wise? | Sep 03 23:22 |
| MinceR | (did it have a painful period like ubuntu's intrepid/jaunty?) | Sep 03 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | the base system is more or less the version of Ubuntu it came from | Sep 03 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: It doesn't have Apparmor | Sep 03 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | well, the module is still there cause it comes with the Ubuntu kernel, but the utilities and policies are not installed and nothing loads the module by default | Sep 03 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | how to enable the firewall and set rules is more obvious because it has a GUI front end to UFW | Sep 03 23:26 |
| MinceR | i don't think i had any issues with AppArmor | Sep 03 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | though it's not on by default | Sep 03 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | I've always had that complaint with Ubuntu, they don't really take security seriously, even the obvious and trivial parts which no user will even notice | Sep 03 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR: Apparmor in Ubuntu only has one default policy enforced, thats for CUPS | Sep 03 23:29 |
| DaemonFC | they're mainly using it to sandbox the Guest account | Sep 03 23:29 |
| DaemonFC | the reason I really don't care for MAC is because if someone has exploited a kernel bug to gain root level access, then you're sunk anyway | Sep 03 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | and the majority of the policies in most distributions won't stop that from happening | Sep 03 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think that even the 8 year old kernel bug that was fixed last month would have been mitigated | Sep 03 23:32 |
| MinceR | the solution to that isn't necessarily that we throw out even those policies and MAC | Sep 03 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | to needlessly complicate the system for dubious security gains which are not possible to gauge or predict is not a good idea | Sep 03 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | you could spend hours doing nothing but writing policies and the next kernel bug someone finds will probably torpedo you anyway | Sep 03 23:33 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I' | Sep 03 23:33 |
| cubezzz-laptop | well, being rooted must be kind of rare | Sep 03 23:34 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I've never seen it | Sep 03 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | local root exploits can become remote exploits easily enough | Sep 03 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | MAC is basically there to guard obvious things that will be attacked | Sep 03 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | like Apache | Sep 03 23:35 |
| cubezzz-laptop | I've tried using local exploits on my own box, it never got me root | Sep 03 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | it's like Night of the Living Dead where people are so busy boarding up the windows and doors that they don't even notice there's one in the basement | Sep 03 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Sep 03 23:36 |
| MinceR | so would you rather fight the one zombie from the basement or that _and_ all the zombies that come in through the windows and doors? | Sep 03 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | well, it killed them all anyway in the end | Sep 03 23:37 |
| MinceR | patching vulnerabilities as they're discovered is not a method that will guarantee your product to be free of vulnerabilities | Sep 03 23:38 |
| MinceR | doesn't mean it isn't worth doing | Sep 03 23:38 |
| DaemonFC | so MAC is like something that they spend millions of dollars and tons of man hours on that would be better spent finding and patching the actual holes where these attacks come from | Sep 03 23:38 |
| MinceR | MAC is more than that though | Sep 03 23:39 |
| MinceR | afaik it has uses on multiuser systems | Sep 03 23:39 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, well, the Guest account enforcement is one of those deals where it's there to try and stop malicious users using local root exploits | Sep 03 23:39 |
| DaemonFC | so it's really the same problem from a different angle | Sep 03 23:40 |
| MinceR | MAC isn't about local root exploits | Sep 03 23:40 |
| DaemonFC | there have been plenty of security problems in Linux and surrounding software over the years that the only real reason attacks and worms and viruses are not widespread is because the patch is usually faster than the attackers ability to roll out exploits that nab millions of systems | Sep 03 23:41 |
| DaemonFC | so whenever you hear about Linux being hacked, it's usually one or two isolated incidents, the hole is exposed, the patch is applied, and that's the last you hear of that one | Sep 03 23:42 |
| MinceR | MAC is about defining an access control policy that the users themselves cannot override | Sep 03 23:42 |
| MinceR | (can't just let everyone read sensitive information by setting it go+r) | Sep 03 23:43 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@41.140.16.88) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 03 23:44 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Founding CEO of TurboLinux No Longer at TurboLinux http://ping.fm/oiXzW | Sep 03 23:45 | |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC, the biggest encoder | Sep 03 23:47 |
| DaemonFC | indeed | Sep 03 23:48 |
| _Hicham_ | what should i do if the container of a video have a different framerate than the codec framerate ? | Sep 03 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_: I'm not as current on video encoders as audio encoders | Sep 03 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | in fact, as long as a movie fits on my MP3 player and looks reasonably good on that 2-3" display, I'm usually happy | Sep 03 23:50 |
| _Hicham_ | I did have that weird issue | Sep 03 23:50 |
| _Hicham_ | tried ffmpeg, and gstreamer | Sep 03 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | could be calculation differences in two programs | Sep 03 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | maybe one program counts the overhead of the container | Sep 03 23:50 |
| _Hicham_ | both gave me the same result | Sep 03 23:51 |
| _Hicham_ | it plays fine in flv | Sep 03 23:51 |
| _Hicham_ | but when i want to transcode it, i get only the half | Sep 03 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | the Ogg container typically has an overhead of about 15% | Sep 03 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | over the Vorbis stream it's encapsulating | Sep 03 23:51 |
| _Hicham_ | i am transcoding it from flv to mpeg-2 ( DVD) | Sep 03 23:52 |
| DaemonFC | you probably don't want to do that | Sep 03 23:52 |
| DaemonFC | it's probably MPEG 4 video inside | Sep 03 23:52 |
| DaemonFC | just find something to strip it of the FLV container and put it in an MPEG container | Sep 03 23:52 |
| _Hicham_ | ok, thanks for the idea | Sep 03 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | I've done that before, it saves you from degrading the quality of the video | Sep 03 23:53 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Windows 7 – Its party time! (just don’t mention Vista) or "Its my party and I’ll shill if I want to." http://tinyurl.com/mw27uu #microsoft | Sep 03 23:56 | |
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