| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Academy of Songwriters, Composers and Authors Hates MAFIAA/Mandelson's Plan http://ping.fm/7cH6Q | Sep 05 23:27 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Pirate Bay Appeal Assigned Another Apparently-Corrupt Judge http://ping.fm/qsFip | Sep 05 23:28 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Old Press is Ripping Off Bloggers, Whom It Accuses of 'Stealing' http://ping.fm/XgnYH | Sep 05 23:29 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nathan #Myhrvold #Troll Company Called "Pyramid Scheme", Funded by #Microsoft AND #Apple http://ping.fm/8kJif | Sep 05 23:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #TiVo Behaves Almost Like a Patent Troll/Taxman http://ping.fm/nBeXK | Sep 05 23:34 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Loses Another Patent Lawsuits (Settles) http://ping.fm/gBWV9 http://ping.fm/oYWx7 | Sep 05 23:37 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why the Industry is Better Off with Microsoft Word Banned http://ping.fm/HFDuX http://ping.fm/syQy1 | Sep 05 23:38 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Latest #Patent #Propaganda from BBC/Microsoft Rebutted http://ping.fm/PGlpX http://ping.fm/OjJdG http://ping.fm/fYTdr | Sep 05 23:42 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Insight Into the Corrupt Nature of Patenting Framework http://ping.fm/IuvAs #uspto | Sep 05 23:44 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IBM Still Exploits #Patents to 'Own' #FreeSoftware, Lies About It Too http://ping.fm/KnMnB | Sep 05 23:46 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Vista 7 Cockups and Delay http://ping.fm/YKC4m | Sep 05 23:51 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Sued Again for Suspending Windows http://ping.fm/8CbXc | Sep 05 23:53 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Stuck in Lawsuit Over #Xbox360 Being #Rubbish http://ping.fm/uOANJ | Sep 05 23:54 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] News in the United Kingdom and Canada to Come from Microsoft http://ping.fm/Jzaeq http://ping.fm/7DGHg | Sep 05 23:56 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Makes Another Dive for Television Time http://ping.fm/EnDtq http://ping.fm/Lk95J | Sep 05 23:57 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft COO Dumps Microsoft Shares http://ping.fm/VXwQE | Sep 05 23:59 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] RT: @schestowitz Microsoft COO Dumps Microsoft Shares http://ping.fm/VXwQE #microsoft #windows #msft #xp #vista #stock | Sep 06 00:00 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Carries on Losing on the Web http://ping.fm/UWstA http://ping.fm/RfCkt | Sep 06 00:02 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Uses #Teachers to Get #Children Addicted/Locked in to Microsoft http://ping.fm/VsAjz | Sep 06 00:04 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bartzmer's Wedding with Ballmer Blows Up in Her face http://ping.fm/Lq6ha | Sep 06 00:08 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft-Occupied EPIC Front Group Attacks Google http://ping.fm/rFShx | Sep 06 00:12 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Office Near SCO Created, Father of SCO Representative Invited for Key Role http://ping.fm/fmBNf | Sep 06 00:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Ubersoft Cartoons http://ping.fm/5qpkC http://ping.fm/GQRQE | Sep 06 00:19 | |
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| ziggyfish_ | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090904195554466 - The i4i v. Microsoft Order Staying the Injunction - Updated | Sep 06 00:23 |
|---|---|---|
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Accused of 'Shenanigans' by Former Employees http://ping.fm/KeyPW | Sep 06 00:23 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft IIS Under Attack via FTP http://ping.fm/8RKci | Sep 06 00:24 | |
| schestowitz | ziggyfish: yes, I saw that | Sep 06 00:30 |
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| twitter1 | yeah, FTP fail. how embarrassing. | Sep 06 00:33 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] let's botspam #wikipedia ! what could possibly go wrong? http://is.gd/2W5Bl (and what a great smart person attracting url that looks like) | Sep 06 01:08 | |
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| twitter1 | Kevin McCaney, the managing editor of Government Computing News, has strange ideas about software. | Sep 06 01:16 |
| twitter1 | He thinks Sun's take over is trouble for Open Office but not for Star Office. | Sep 06 01:17 |
| twitter1 | and he thinks that Word Perfect is a more practical replacement for M$ Word than OO. | Sep 06 01:17 |
| Balrog_ | twitter1: WordPerfect for Mac in the mid to late '90s was one of the best word processors | Sep 06 01:18 |
| Balrog_ | then they cancelled it. | Sep 06 01:18 |
| twitter1 | I don't think he understands the immortality of free software, like Open Office, and he is unaware of Abiword, Koffice and others. | Sep 06 01:18 |
| twitter1 | Word Perfect was a fine word processor. | Sep 06 01:18 |
| twitter1 | but why would you put your faith in Correll when you could have free software instead? | Sep 06 01:19 |
| Balrog_ | well that may be the case right now; back then it wasn't | Sep 06 01:19 |
| twitter1 | If you think Sun has problems, look at what M$ did to Correl. Forced them to kill their gnu/linux port of Word Perfect almost a decade ago. | Sep 06 01:19 |
| Balrog_ | and WordPerfect for Windows never was a great word processor | Sep 06 01:20 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: PJ corrected him | Sep 06 01:25 |
| schestowitz | See 'News Picks' in Groklaw | Sep 06 01:25 |
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| schestowitz | links posted. gn | Sep 06 01:29 |
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| amarsh04 | Eruaran... did you ever try contacting ABC Four Corners about Microsoft, since you mentioned that they hadn't gone after them? | Sep 06 01:42 |
| Eruaran | yes | Sep 06 01:42 |
| amarsh04 | maybe there is someone with more weight in .au that could present the case to four corners (Brendan Scott, Con Zymaris...?) | Sep 06 01:43 |
| twitter1 | cool -> schestowitz: twitter: PJ corrected him | Sep 06 01:44 |
| twitter1 | sleep tight. | Sep 06 01:44 |
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| twitter1 | yeah, but it's still much better than Word. -> Balrog_: and WordPerfect for Windows never was a great word processor | Sep 06 01:45 |
| Balrog_ | twitter1: I was talking about WordPerfect for Mac | Sep 06 01:46 |
| amarsh04 | still has wp5.1 for dos | Sep 06 01:46 |
| Balrog_ | I used to use it back when I didn't have modern computers :) | Sep 06 01:46 |
| twitter1 | Word was never great, then they loaded their formats with so much anti-competitive crap it fills 8000 spec pages and is still incomplete. | Sep 06 01:46 |
| Balrog_ | yes. | Sep 06 01:46 |
| Balrog_ | Word 6 for Mac was *horrible* | Sep 06 01:46 |
| Balrog_ | literally | Sep 06 01:46 |
| Balrog_ | Word 5 was very usable though | Sep 06 01:47 |
| twitter1 | Kword does an OK job of importing Word Perfect. Lawyers, who only use text, could convert to Kword and never look back. | Sep 06 01:47 |
| twitter1 | I agree. | Sep 06 01:47 |
| Balrog_ | many still consider it the best version of Word ever | Sep 06 01:47 |
| twitter1 | Wait a tick. I never used Word 5? | Sep 06 01:47 |
| twitter1 | What version was around in 2000 or so? | Sep 06 01:48 |
| Balrog_ | then, MS wanted to unify the codebase so they just made Word 6 for Windows compile on Mac (with necessary libraries | Sep 06 01:48 |
| Balrog_ | ) | Sep 06 01:48 |
| Balrog_ | twitter1: on the Mac ...? | Sep 06 01:48 |
| Balrog_ | twitter1: Word 5 for Mac was from around 1991 or 1992 | Sep 06 01:48 |
| twitter1 | no on W2K, shudder. | Sep 06 01:48 |
| Balrog_ | twitter1: this is back in the pre-OSX days | Sep 06 01:48 |
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| Balrog_ | and on W2K it could be Word 97 or 2000 | Sep 06 01:48 |
| twitter1 | I have never met a version of Word that I liked. | Sep 06 01:48 |
| twitter1 | ever. | Sep 06 01:49 |
| Balrog_ | Word 5 for Mac was very different from ANY version for Windows | Sep 06 01:49 |
| Balrog_ | it was based on the original Word GUI codebase | Sep 06 01:49 |
| Balrog_ | Word for Windows never was similar to Word 5 for Mac [and older versions] | Sep 06 01:50 |
| Balrog_ | twitter1: I'm not trying to promote MS or Word in any way | Sep 06 01:51 |
| Balrog_ | this is just historical discussion | Sep 06 01:51 |
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| yuhong | I don't believe Vista really cause the demise of Circuit City and CompUSA. | Sep 06 02:03 |
| yuhong | I don't believe Vista really cause the demise of Circuit City and CompUSA. | Sep 06 02:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | uh, good for you | Sep 06 02:04 |
| yuhong | I know what was to blame, and it was unrelated to Vista. | Sep 06 02:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah, its called bad customer service and selling shit no one wanted to buy | Sep 06 02:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | vista is just the flagship product for crap worldwide. | Sep 06 02:07 |
| yuhong | Yep. | Sep 06 02:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | vista was the nail in the coffin | Sep 06 02:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | they were selling crappy computers that should have never had vista on them | Sep 06 02:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | and they got stuck with the bag | Sep 06 02:07 |
| yuhong | Yep, I know, I remember the low end model of OQO 2 shipping with XP, only the high end models ship Vista. | Sep 06 02:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | a lot of those would have done well with that version of xp for shit computers | Sep 06 02:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont know why microsoft didnt try to push for that more | Sep 06 02:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | xp isnt actually that bad of a product | Sep 06 02:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | (not compared to vista, anyways) | Sep 06 02:10 |
| yuhong | Even MS had to resurrect XP for netbooks. | Sep 06 02:10 |
| yuhong | And MBAs dehumanizing customers and employees as numbers... Well, that is another mess altogether. | Sep 06 02:12 |
| yuhong | But yes I think it was partly to blame. | Sep 06 02:13 |
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| _Hicham_ | Mr DaemonFC, wb | Sep 06 03:49 |
| _Hicham_ | You should change it to DaemonMint now | Sep 06 03:50 |
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| _Hicham_ | here is twitter1 | Sep 06 04:06 |
| twitter1 | :-* | Sep 06 04:09 |
| twitter1 | any interesting news on this labor day weekend? | Sep 06 04:14 |
| DaemonFC | I finally finished Star Wars: KOTOR 2 in Wine | Sep 06 04:15 |
| DaemonFC | Darth Traya was easily the most difficult final boss of any game I've played | Sep 06 04:16 |
| DaemonFC | My guy was a jedi Sentinal that could cut down just about any other stock bad guy, and I died like at least 30 times on Traya before finally killing her | Sep 06 04:17 |
| DaemonFC | I was at like 2% health by the time I killed her, one more hit and I would have died again | Sep 06 04:17 |
| DaemonFC | that's just kind of ridiculous, but that was bugging me, I was trying to kill her off and on for the last few months | Sep 06 04:18 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, It's now DaemonFC, slayer of Darth Traya, hero of the Republic | Sep 06 04:19 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 06 04:19 |
| DaemonFC | yays! | Sep 06 04:19 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_karmic_leopard&num=1 | Sep 06 04:26 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu still outperforms OS X, even Snow Leopard | Sep 06 04:26 |
| _Hicham_ | u were killing a chick ? | Sep 06 04:27 |
| _Hicham_ | what a criminal | Sep 06 04:27 |
| _Hicham_ | did u play it on Mint ? | Sep 06 04:28 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, More like a powerful Sith | Sep 06 04:28 |
| DaemonFC | Mint and Ubuntu | Sep 06 04:28 |
| _Hicham_ | Green and Brown | Sep 06 04:30 |
| DaemonFC | well, there's no Mint version of Ubuntu 9.10's development tree obviously | Sep 06 04:31 |
| _Hicham_ | so u picked packages from karmic ? | Sep 06 04:32 |
| DaemonFC | no, I ended up installing Karmic and rigging it to look more like OpenSuse/Mint | Sep 06 04:35 |
| DaemonFC | I finally figured out that this was what was really bothering me about GNOME for the most part all this time | Sep 06 04:36 |
| _Hicham_ | the theme? | Sep 06 04:38 |
| _Hicham_ | the sonar theme? | Sep 06 04:39 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : what graphics card do u have ? | Sep 06 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | XFX Geforce 9500 GT with 512 megs GDDR3 | Sep 06 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | it handles Compiz or Aero and most games just fine, even on high or ultra graphics settings | Sep 06 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | I have considered a XFX Geforce 9800 but I just don't have the need yet | Sep 06 04:42 |
| _Hicham_ | 512MB is enough i think for most games | Sep 06 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | I mainly upgraded to the Geforce 9 series for Direct3d 10.1 and OpenGL 3 | Sep 06 04:42 |
| _Hicham_ | u should play native games on Linux | Sep 06 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | the system originally had a 7950 | Sep 06 04:43 |
| _Hicham_ | did u play some native games on linux ? | Sep 06 04:43 |
| DaemonFC | that was DirectX 9 and OpenGL 2.1 | Sep 06 04:43 |
| _Hicham_ | not fps | Sep 06 04:43 |
| DaemonFC | a few | Sep 06 04:43 |
| DaemonFC | most are Windows games in Wine though because that's what there is | Sep 06 04:43 |
| _Hicham_ | did u play penumbra game on linux ? | Sep 06 04:45 |
| _Hicham_ | www.penumbragame.com | Sep 06 04:45 |
| _Hicham_ | great adventure game | Sep 06 04:46 |
| _Hicham_ | no killing | Sep 06 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | haven't seen it | Sep 06 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | how much is it? | Sep 06 04:46 |
| _Hicham_ | just using ur mind | Sep 06 04:46 |
| _Hicham_ | price or size? | Sep 06 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | price | Sep 06 04:46 |
| _Hicham_ | i think the whole trilogy for $10 | Sep 06 04:46 |
| _Hicham_ | very cheap | Sep 06 04:47 |
| _Hicham_ | but great game engine | Sep 06 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, all three for $20 | Sep 06 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | is what it says | Sep 06 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | I may get the demo | Sep 06 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | see if I like it | Sep 06 04:47 |
| _Hicham_ | I downloaded via rapidshare | Sep 06 04:47 |
| _Hicham_ | since there is no way to pay from morocco | Sep 06 04:47 |
| _Hicham_ | I would have paid for it | Sep 06 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/9485/screenshotys.png | Sep 06 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | my biggest grudge against dpkg :) | Sep 06 04:48 |
| _Hicham_ | dpkg is fine | Sep 06 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | you have to use --force-architecture to install 32-bit x86 packages | Sep 06 04:48 |
| _Hicham_ | it is normal | Sep 06 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | cause it treats X86-64 as an incompatible archtiecture for some reason | Sep 06 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | *architecture | Sep 06 04:49 |
| _Hicham_ | that is debian policy | Sep 06 04:49 |
| _Hicham_ | u must stick to ur architecture | Sep 06 04:49 |
| _Hicham_ | even though x86_64 is compatible with i386 | Sep 06 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | I've been using X86-64 exclusively since 2005 | Sep 06 04:50 |
| tessier | debian says YOU WILL CONFORM! | Sep 06 04:50 |
| tessier | DaemonFC: ditto | Sep 06 04:50 |
| tessier | Need those extra bis | Sep 06 04:51 |
| tessier | bits | Sep 06 04:51 |
| _Hicham_ | Debian is about conformity | Sep 06 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | well, it's not like they charge more for the 64-bit edition and I already had the hardware B-) | Sep 06 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | Sep 06 04:51 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe u should donate to debian | Sep 06 04:52 |
| _Hicham_ | have u donated to a distro before ? | Sep 06 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I have | Sep 06 04:54 |
| _Hicham_ | how much ? | Sep 06 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | it's been a while since I used Debian regularly | Sep 06 04:55 |
| DaemonFC | I've bought several items from the Canonical store though | Sep 06 04:55 |
| _Hicham_ | like codecs ? | Sep 06 04:56 |
| DaemonFC | hell no | Sep 06 04:56 |
| _Hicham_ | tee-shirts? | Sep 06 04:56 |
| _Hicham_ | cups? | Sep 06 04:56 |
| _Hicham_ | towels? | Sep 06 04:56 |
| DaemonFC | I have a coffee mug, I've bought the book with the DVD included for 6.06 | Sep 06 04:57 |
| _Hicham_ | great | Sep 06 04:57 |
| _Hicham_ | now u r a Canonical official sponsor | Sep 06 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | the library has the book for 8.04 though, I requested it | Sep 06 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | they get the wholesale deals from the publishers | Sep 06 04:58 |
| _Hicham_ | 6.06 is the way to go | Sep 06 04:58 |
| _Hicham_ | more stable | Sep 06 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | I was irked when I went to see what they had in the way of computer-related books | Sep 06 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | it was all versions of Windows, a few books on DOS, and some old UNIX manuals | Sep 06 04:58 |
| _Hicham_ | was the book interesting? | Sep 06 04:58 |
| _Hicham_ | what did u expect to see ? | Sep 06 04:59 |
| _Hicham_ | computer is Windows | Sep 06 04:59 |
| _Hicham_ | did u find any books on Windows Vista yet? | Sep 06 04:59 |
| DaemonFC | it's laid out well, I would have liked to see the chapter on KDE be a little more comprehensive | Sep 06 04:59 |
| _Hicham_ | Canonical doesn't help KDE | Sep 06 05:00 |
| DaemonFC | 90% of the book was about using shells, the GNOME desktop, and the utilities included with Ubuntu | Sep 06 05:00 |
| _Hicham_ | they are pure GNOMEist | Sep 06 05:00 |
| DaemonFC | about 5% of it was the opening speech from Benjamin Mako Hill and Mark Shuttleworth | Sep 06 05:00 |
| _Hicham_ | KDE is just built | Sep 06 05:00 |
| DaemonFC | and about 5% was KDE and XFCE | Sep 06 05:00 |
| _Hicham_ | no patches | Sep 06 05:00 |
| _Hicham_ | no contributions | Sep 06 05:00 |
| DaemonFC | just touching on them | Sep 06 05:00 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu is not that great with KDE | Sep 06 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | it's enough of a reference that you'll be competent with their GNOME desktop | Sep 06 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | and the basic workings of the BASH terminal | Sep 06 05:01 |
| _Hicham_ | great knowledge | Sep 06 05:01 |
| _Hicham_ | at least universal | Sep 06 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | it goes over all the obvious things, like how to get around in BASH, tab completion, etc. | Sep 06 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | it's really for someone that's never used Linux or Ubuntu | Sep 06 05:01 |
| _Hicham_ | that is what users need | Sep 06 05:01 |
| _Hicham_ | that is good | Sep 06 05:02 |
| _Hicham_ | that is why Ubuntu is regarded as user friendly | Sep 06 05:02 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't know, but Mandriva seems to me more user friendly | Sep 06 05:02 |
| _Hicham_ | it is easier to use | Sep 06 05:02 |
| _Hicham_ | everything is graphical | Sep 06 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva is not as friendly | Sep 06 05:03 |
| _Hicham_ | how ? | Sep 06 05:03 |
| _Hicham_ | they do not ship books ? | Sep 06 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | I mean, it's usable, but things like how to install nonfree drivers and codecs aren't obvious, some wifi firmware isn't there until you download it | Sep 06 05:04 |
| DaemonFC | a few packages are missing and you have to compile them | Sep 06 05:04 |
| DaemonFC | Sauerbraten is among them :) | Sep 06 05:04 |
| _Hicham_ | u r talking about the free version | Sep 06 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is more likely to just work or present an obvious way to make the hardware you have work | Sep 06 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | that's important because a lot of people have a Windows system they're converting and didn't exactly have Linux in mind when they bought it | Sep 06 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | and in many cases it's not obvious what hardware works and doesn't | Sep 06 05:06 |
| DaemonFC | making sure as much of it does as possible = happier users and no drilling expedition to make it work | Sep 06 05:06 |
| _Hicham_ | Mandriva One is better at that | Sep 06 05:06 |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva also doesn't have things like HPLIP by default | Sep 06 05:06 |
| DaemonFC | so a user may plug in an HP printer and not know why it doesn't print or scan | Sep 06 05:07 |
| _Hicham_ | it does include all proprietary firmwares and software | Sep 06 05:07 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu already has HPLIP | Sep 06 05:07 |
| _Hicham_ | on Mandriva? | Sep 06 05:07 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Sep 06 05:07 |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva will install HPLIP if you open the printing section on the control center | Sep 06 05:07 |
| DaemonFC | same with XSANE | Sep 06 05:07 |
| _Hicham_ | which is nice | Sep 06 05:08 |
| _Hicham_ | it is automated | Sep 06 05:08 |
| DaemonFC | but Ubuntu already has both | Sep 06 05:08 |
| DaemonFC | and nobody has to care about the specifics | Sep 06 05:08 |
| DaemonFC | that's how a system should work | Sep 06 05:08 |
| _Hicham_ | but both work automatically | Sep 06 05:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctXlo1r7AIk | Sep 06 05:08 |
| _Hicham_ | and Mandriva DrakConnect is superior | Sep 06 05:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | BWHAHAHAHHAHAHA | Sep 06 05:09 |
| DaemonFC | well, one Linux distribution may be a 1,000 piece puzzle | Sep 06 05:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | a troll slams a troll | Sep 06 05:09 |
| DaemonFC | and another just works | Sep 06 05:09 |
| DaemonFC | which would you rather walk up and use? | Sep 06 05:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: watch this | Sep 06 05:09 |
| DaemonFC | if anything has a chance to snap up disgruntled Windows users, I think it's Ubuntu, right now anyway | Sep 06 05:10 |
| DaemonFC | something may well come up and replace them, but for now they're the most friendly | Sep 06 05:10 |
| _Hicham_ | so it is just a matter of default packages ? | Sep 06 05:10 |
| DaemonFC | not just that, but that's a big part of it | Sep 06 05:11 |
| _Hicham_ | default packages are easy to push into mandriva | Sep 06 05:11 |
| DaemonFC | I think if it comes down to prioritizing what will fit onto an installation disc, they should throw Mono off of the disc and make way for more drivers | Sep 06 05:11 |
| DaemonFC | well, Mandriva One doesn't have an X86-64 disc and it's still not a complete system | Sep 06 05:12 |
| _Hicham_ | F-Spot is requested by a lot of users | Sep 06 05:12 |
| DaemonFC | slap gthumb on there | Sep 06 05:12 |
| _Hicham_ | they want F-Spot | Sep 06 05:12 |
| DaemonFC | or Picasa | Sep 06 05:12 |
| _Hicham_ | would u say no to users ? | Sep 06 05:12 |
| _Hicham_ | that wouldn't be democracy | Sep 06 05:13 |
| DaemonFC | gthumb doesn't depend on Mono and it starts up faster | Sep 06 05:13 |
| DaemonFC | and it's more responsive | Sep 06 05:13 |
| _Hicham_ | tell that to users | Sep 06 05:13 |
| DaemonFC | they should work on making it better, not making another Mono dependency | Sep 06 05:13 |
| _Hicham_ | it is about the users | Sep 06 05:13 |
| _Hicham_ | don't u get it | Sep 06 05:14 |
| DaemonFC | the only thing that needs work on gthumb is importing photos | Sep 06 05:14 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe u should try solang | Sep 06 05:14 |
| _Hicham_ | it is available in karmic | Sep 06 05:14 |
| DaemonFC | I just import them off my SD card and upload them to Walgreens or maybe Walmart and go pick up the prints later | Sep 06 05:15 |
| DaemonFC | those photo printers aren't even worth screwing around with | Sep 06 05:15 |
| DaemonFC | it's more expensive in the long run than just sending a batch to Walmart over the internet | Sep 06 05:15 |
| _Hicham_ | for how much do u print a photo? | Sep 06 05:15 |
| DaemonFC | and picking them up later | Sep 06 05:15 |
| DaemonFC | I worked it out once, it was like 8 cents a print at Walmart, and over 20 cents a print not counting the cost of the photo printer, to use the kodak printer | Sep 06 05:16 |
| DaemonFC | and then you have something else that needs a driver and something else that wears out | Sep 06 05:16 |
| DaemonFC | and you still have to go to Walmart to buy ink and paper | Sep 06 05:16 |
| _Hicham_ | really cheap | Sep 06 05:17 |
| _Hicham_ | way cheaper than here | Sep 06 05:17 |
| DaemonFC | so I just order prints and get them while I'm buying my groceries that week | Sep 06 05:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctXlo1r7AIk | Sep 06 05:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | both of you | Sep 06 05:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | watch this | Sep 06 05:18 |
| DaemonFC | it's much more economical than buying a photo printer | Sep 06 05:18 |
| _Hicham_ | sadly we don't have Walmart in here | Sep 06 05:18 |
| _Hicham_ | and printing a photo is like $0.25 | Sep 06 05:18 |
| DaemonFC | even at Walgreens it's only like 11 cents per | Sep 06 05:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | why the fuck would you use a kodak printeR? | Sep 06 05:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | they waste too much ink | Sep 06 05:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | buy a high end canon | Sep 06 05:19 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, That's my point | Sep 06 05:19 |
| DaemonFC | people still buy them though | Sep 06 05:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | and btw, I pay about 20 cents a print..... | Sep 06 05:19 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe because of quality | Sep 06 05:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | but my prints are on paper about 5 times thicker than the shit walmart and everyone else uses | Sep 06 05:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're also sharp and properly calibrated | Sep 06 05:20 |
| _Hicham_ | that is because u give it ur personal touch | Sep 06 05:20 |
| _Hicham_ | and money | Sep 06 05:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | I have spent a lot of money to ensure what I took with my camera is exactly whats displayed on my screen AND is exactly what comes out of my printer | Sep 06 05:20 |
| DaemonFC | my aunt got one of those digital picture frames at Walgreens that was preloaded wit ha Windows virus | Sep 06 05:20 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 06 05:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | expensive? yes | Sep 06 05:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | awesomer than fuck? yes | Sep 06 05:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | do I have to waste time slaughtering Walmart employees? nope, and its worth every penny | Sep 06 05:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | the less dumbfucks in my chain of getting things done the happier I am | Sep 06 05:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | btw, not only that | Sep 06 05:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | but walmart cant handle non sRGB images | Sep 06 05:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only way to preserve the gamut of your photos is to do it yourself the right way | Sep 06 05:22 |
| twitter1 | :) scroll back cleared. | Sep 06 05:23 |
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| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, Also, Empathy is a recommends | Sep 06 05:25 |
| DaemonFC | so you can easily remove it and put in Pidgin instead | Sep 06 05:25 |
| DaemonFC | I noticed that earlier | Sep 06 05:25 |
| *DaemonFC hates Empathy | Sep 06 05:26 | |
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| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : why do u hate Empathy ? | Sep 06 05:26 |
| _Hicham_ | it is more integrated with gnome | Sep 06 05:26 |
| DaemonFC | Empathy can't even change your display name on Windows Live | Sep 06 05:26 |
| _Hicham_ | it is still young | Sep 06 05:26 |
| _Hicham_ | Pidgin is a mature project | Sep 06 05:26 |
| *tessier recently quit using gnome after many years | Sep 06 05:26 | |
| _Hicham_ | tessier : can we know why? | Sep 06 05:27 |
| tessier | I discovered xmonad. | Sep 06 05:27 |
| tessier | I just wanted to try a tiling window manager. I never really used all the extra junk that gnome gave me anyway. I just used it because it was the default and it worked. | Sep 06 05:28 |
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| tessier | But after I switched to xmonad I suddenly had hundreds of megabytes of free memory. | Sep 06 05:28 |
| DaemonFC | Pulseaudio 0.9.16 isn't glitching and cutting out anymore | Sep 06 05:29 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 06 05:29 |
| _Hicham_ | great project | Sep 06 05:30 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/upgrade/4243994.html?page=3 | Sep 06 05:33 |
| DaemonFC | \hehe | Sep 06 05:33 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, no extensions for Epiphany Webkit in Ubuntu | Sep 06 05:39 |
| DaemonFC | that means no adblock | Sep 06 05:39 |
| DaemonFC | what a damned shame, other than that it's a good browser | Sep 06 05:39 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, this might work | Sep 06 05:41 |
| DaemonFC | https://launchpad.net/~webkit-team/+archive/epiphany | Sep 06 05:41 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Sep 06 05:41 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, it's installing | Sep 06 05:44 |
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| twitter1 | ick, more gross stuff. It won't be long before they find murder too. http://gawker.com/5350465/our-embassy-in-afghanistan-is-guarded-by-sexually-confused-frat-boys/gallery/ | Sep 06 06:49 |
| DaemonFC | that's funny | Sep 06 07:10 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, that's what you get with mercenaries and private armies ran by bigoted Christian extremists | Sep 06 07:13 |
| DaemonFC | crazy bullshit at best and illegal killings at worst | Sep 06 07:13 |
| twitter1 | self loathing homosexuals | Sep 06 07:14 |
| DaemonFC | sorry, I didn't know you were one of the bigoted extremists | Sep 06 07:14 |
| DaemonFC | when the Christians wake up with flaming crosses in their front lawns and are subjected to arbitrary job losses and fear for their lives | Sep 06 07:16 |
| DaemonFC | well, maybe they'll have something to bitch about | Sep 06 07:17 |
| DaemonFC | but then, that doesn't happen to them, because they are the perpetrators of that shit | Sep 06 07:17 |
| DaemonFC | the organized Ku Klux Klan is more or less gone | Sep 06 07:18 |
| DaemonFC | what you have now is thousands of preachers around America sewing the seeds of hatred, fertilizing and watering them, and then turning their back while a "lone crazy" from their congregation carries out their gruntwork | Sep 06 07:19 |
| DaemonFC | then they show up on the evening news disavowing all responsibility for it and assuring everyone that God is love | Sep 06 07:19 |
| DaemonFC | they're no different from the Clerics and whatnot who teach Muslims to hate and massage it in at every given opportunity | Sep 06 07:20 |
| DaemonFC | eventually it becomes widespread mental illness | Sep 06 07:21 |
| DaemonFC | where 80-90% of a nation is psychologically traumatized and brainwashed into thinking they're the good guys | Sep 06 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | the good guys are merely who survived to write the history books | Sep 06 07:22 |
| DaemonFC | history books my ass | Sep 06 07:22 |
| DaemonFC | propaganda in history books is mild compared to the Bible or the Qur'an | Sep 06 07:22 |
| DaemonFC | mild | Sep 06 07:22 |
| DaemonFC | they're so damned schizophrenic and self-contradicting, that you can leave with a message of hate or love from the same book | Sep 06 07:23 |
| DaemonFC | people use them to justify all kinds of atrocities | Sep 06 07:24 |
| DaemonFC | and some also pretend that the hateful parts aren't there and that it's sunshine and kitty kats from front to back | Sep 06 07:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | dude, I fucked your mom | Sep 06 07:24 |
| DaemonFC | those are the best kind of people that can come from religion | Sep 06 07:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | and now Im writing a history book about it | Sep 06 07:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | clearly, Im the good guy here | Sep 06 07:25 |
| DaemonFC | I see it as....if there IS a God, he'd either be good and merciful and loving, or he'd be vengeful and full of wrath and just totally bat shit crazy | Sep 06 07:27 |
| DaemonFC | he wouldn't change his mind in every chapter | Sep 06 07:27 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 06 07:27 |
| DaemonFC | and if churches full of Christians spring up, like the Baptists and the Wesleyans, to worship the wrathful bat shit crazy God, then why do you need a "Satan" as a separate evil being? | Sep 06 07:29 |
| DaemonFC | if God is out there telling you to decimate villages of men, women, and children, slaughter all the animals and trees, and rip off their heads and shit down their throats, why do you need a Satan? | Sep 06 07:29 |
| twitter1 | heh. can you think of an alternate explanation for people forcing their boyfriends to strip and play with each other naked? -> DaemonFC: sorry, I didn't know you were one of the bigoted extremists | Sep 06 07:29 |
| DaemonFC | <twitter1> self loathing homosexuals | Sep 06 07:30 |
| DaemonFC | I kind of took offense to that because it sounds exactly like what these religions try to stereotype gays and lesbians as | Sep 06 07:30 |
| DaemonFC | "They're all miserable, every one of them is eating of the bitter fruit of sin" | Sep 06 07:31 |
| DaemonFC | and all that | Sep 06 07:31 |
| DaemonFC | if you had said "Sick fucking crazy ass perverts" I would have agreed, it's all you had to say | Sep 06 07:31 |
| twitter1 | I don't know people like that and I'm sorry you do. | Sep 06 07:31 |
| DaemonFC | why do you have to make it a jab at homosexuals, et all | Sep 06 07:31 |
| DaemonFC | ? | Sep 06 07:31 |
| twitter1 | That was the explanation given by the article. That the people doing these things are repressed homosexuals. | Sep 06 07:32 |
| DaemonFC | no, they're inferring that all homosexuals are sick, depraved, and debauched | Sep 06 07:32 |
| DaemonFC | and you're agreeing with them | Sep 06 07:33 |
| twitter1 | hmph. | Sep 06 07:33 |
| twitter1 | The people who took those pictures are sick. | Sep 06 07:33 |
| twitter1 | They may also be homosexuals, but would tell you that they hate homosexuals. I think that is sad. | Sep 06 07:33 |
| DaemonFC | it's a result of victimization by years of overbearing Christian zealots | Sep 06 07:34 |
| twitter1 | Could be. | Sep 06 07:34 |
| DaemonFC | it causes some people to try to repress and deny themselves until they crack | Sep 06 07:34 |
| twitter1 | These people just want to humiliate their friends. | Sep 06 07:35 |
| DaemonFC | people are crazy and stupid for all kinds of reasons | Sep 06 07:35 |
| DaemonFC | are you saying you've never seen a crazy or stupid heterosexual? | Sep 06 07:35 |
| twitter1 | why would I say that? | Sep 06 07:36 |
| DaemonFC | so why don't I just find a heterosexual person that has some perversions and lampoon all of them as "self-hating perverted heterosexuals"? | Sep 06 07:36 |
| DaemonFC | what the HELL does that last part have anything to do with the rest? | Sep 06 07:36 |
| DaemonFC | there are plenty of heterosexual child molesters and rapists | Sep 06 07:37 |
| twitter1 | Well .... wanting to look at naked members of the same sex ... I don't know, sounds homosexual to me. | Sep 06 07:37 |
| DaemonFC | so why don't I just take that next step and declare that all heterosexuals are child molesters, and rapists, and you can't trust any of them? | Sep 06 07:38 |
| twitter1 | because that's coming out of your head, not mine | Sep 06 07:38 |
| DaemonFC | dehumanization is the first step towards trying to exterminate an entire group of people with a clean conscience | Sep 06 07:38 |
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| DaemonFC | Christian propaganda against homosexuals is no better or worse than Nazi "research papers" comparing Jews to apes | Sep 06 07:39 |
| twitter1 | I'm not familiar with this kind of research. | Sep 06 07:39 |
| DaemonFC | they were obviously trying to incite mass public hysteria in both cases | Sep 06 07:39 |
| DaemonFC | what better way to do it than to say "They're ALL trying to rape your kids"? | Sep 06 07:40 |
| DaemonFC | "They're ALL miserable, every last one" | Sep 06 07:40 |
| DaemonFC | "Your God commands that they will ALL burn in the lowest pit of hellfire and damnation forever and ever!!!!" | Sep 06 07:41 |
| twitter1 | the people who took those pictures are miserable. why are you expanding that to otherwise happy people who might also be homosexuals? | Sep 06 07:41 |
| DaemonFC | because I'm sick and tired of getting kicked in the nuts by every fucking idiot that tries to tell me what I am | Sep 06 07:42 |
| DaemonFC | clear enough for you now? | Sep 06 07:42 |
| twitter1 | I don't know what you are, besides a Vista user. lol. | Sep 06 07:42 |
| twitter1 | sorry about the nut kicking you get otherwise. | Sep 06 07:43 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5028/screenshotwf.png | Sep 06 07:46 |
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| DaemonFC | if that's Vista, then I'm Napoleon | Sep 06 07:46 |
| twitter1 | you've sent plenty of others too, Napo. | Sep 06 07:47 |
| twitter1 | but congratulations on what looks like a nice Ubuntu install. | Sep 06 07:48 |
| DaemonFC | mmhm, maybe I trashed it because Wine is running my games as of roughly a week ago | Sep 06 07:48 |
| twitter1 | Gnome drives me nuts but it works. Congrats on the games. | Sep 06 07:48 |
| DaemonFC | maybe I was not happy about needing it to run all of 5-6 programs | Sep 06 07:48 |
| DaemonFC | that Wine couldn't handle at the time | Sep 06 07:48 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, I've dual booted Windows and Linux since at least 1998 just for that reason alone | Sep 06 07:50 |
| DaemonFC | Wine wasn't good enough to let me take my applications with me and leave | Sep 06 07:50 |
| DaemonFC | I know of very few people that like forking over money to get an item of no physical value in return | Sep 06 07:51 |
| twitter1 | I just quit spending money on the non free applications. It did not take long for free software to do better than the last versions of non free stuff I had. | Sep 06 07:51 |
| twitter1 | It was that easy. | Sep 06 07:52 |
| DaemonFC | the pickings are still slim in certain areas of interest to me | Sep 06 07:52 |
| DaemonFC | so Wine is a fair compromise, I think | Sep 06 07:52 |
| twitter1 | I don't care much about games and KDE + PDAs took care of the PIM stuff I needed at the time. | Sep 06 07:53 |
| DaemonFC | it's kind of like, Windows was doing 10% of the job I needed it to and Linux was doing 90%, but those areas were not overlapping | Sep 06 07:53 |
| DaemonFC | so I needed to lug Windows around for that last 10% | Sep 06 07:53 |
| twitter1 | My biggest needs were scientific computing and gnu/linux has that sewn up. | Sep 06 07:54 |
| twitter1 | Right now, Skype is the only non free program I use. | Sep 06 07:54 |
| twitter1 | Video stuff has been laced with patents and other nasties forever. | Sep 06 07:55 |
| DaemonFC | Office and public politics requiring Windows is like passing a law that says everyone has to tie a boat anchor to their car or it's illegal to drive the car | Sep 06 07:55 |
| DaemonFC | it doesn't benefit you to tie a boat anchor to the car, but if there's no choice, you have to do it, no matter how stupid | Sep 06 07:55 |
| DaemonFC | I just got done "fixing" my aunt's Windows system again, this time it was so corrupted by malware that I had to back up her files and lob a fresh copy of Vista on it | Sep 06 07:57 |
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| DaemonFC | her work says she has to use it on her personal laptop and she also has to use "approved" antivirus, where everything on that list lets viruses through right and left anyway | Sep 06 07:57 |
| twitter1 | I've heard of companies forcing people to buy their own computers. | Sep 06 07:58 |
| twitter1 | Sounds crazy. | Sep 06 07:58 |
| DaemonFC | they force you to use Norton Antivirus on your computer | Sep 06 07:58 |
| DaemonFC | they pay for the license, but Norton is still useless | Sep 06 07:59 |
| twitter1 | If they force her to use software on the computer, it is not her computer. | Sep 06 07:59 |
| DaemonFC | doesn't matter if other antivirus actually does stop more viruses, it's not "approved" | Sep 06 07:59 |
| DaemonFC | they control what systems and software are allowed on their network | Sep 06 08:00 |
| twitter1 | did they pay for her laptop? | Sep 06 08:00 |
| DaemonFC | nope | Sep 06 08:00 |
| twitter1 | obviously, they don't fix it for her | Sep 06 08:00 |
| DaemonFC | I'd really like to see how they're enforcing the ban on all non-Windows software from joining their network | Sep 06 08:00 |
| DaemonFC | I could probably jerry rig a way around it | Sep 06 08:01 |
| twitter1 | I'm sure there's nothing special there. | Sep 06 08:01 |
| twitter1 | Most companies use regular dhcp. | Sep 06 08:01 |
| twitter1 | Bigger places have scans that check for the required malware. | Sep 06 08:02 |
| DaemonFC | well, I'd just flat out tell them that if they want me to use Windows and Norton antivirus on the laptop, they need to issue me a company laptop | Sep 06 08:02 |
| DaemonFC | but that's me | Sep 06 08:02 |
| twitter1 | because most Windows boxes are infected with other malware, it is obvious that the scans don't work. | Sep 06 08:02 |
| __c | twitter1: assumption... | Sep 06 08:03 |
| twitter1 | "non approved" software runs on their network every day. | Sep 06 08:03 |
| DaemonFC | antivirus generally just adds more of a drag on the system, makes it even more complicated, uses undocumented and unsupported methods to scan with | Sep 06 08:03 |
| twitter1 | fact. there's no such thing as a virus free collection of windows computers. | Sep 06 08:03 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes crashes the computer all by itself | Sep 06 08:03 |
| twitter1 | Anyway. Get your anut to buy a real personal computer that has nothing to do with work. | Sep 06 08:03 |
| DaemonFC | and signatures are a piss poor way to scan because you can go days or weeks before a sample is analyzed and a signature is added | Sep 06 08:04 |
| __c | twitter1: denial by assertion, is it? Oh, ok, I guess you must be right. My bad. I must have been dreaming all of those corporate locked-down environments. | Sep 06 08:04 |
| twitter1 | Set her up with a nice gnu/linux distribution for email and web browsing. | Sep 06 08:04 |
| twitter1 | I've seen those "locked-down" environments. | Sep 06 08:04 |
| twitter1 | I've worked at one and I did an upgrade for a major bank. Both were pathetic. | Sep 06 08:05 |
| __c | twitter1: go to, oh, Deutsche Bank. Take a look at their machines (the ones without Dev access). Good luck running anything non-approved on them. | Sep 06 08:05 |
| DaemonFC | I call those people IT Czars because they get to dictate what goes on every system regardless of whether it works or not | Sep 06 08:05 |
| twitter1 | I can tell you that at least 20% of the computers at the bank I saw were so malwared up they had to be wiped and reloaded. | Sep 06 08:06 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes, companies like Symantec give them perks or outright bribes to choose their software for that workplace | Sep 06 08:06 |
| twitter1 | Windows is the same, everywhere it is deployed. | Sep 06 08:07 |
| __c | twitter1: *shrug* we've both seen crappy environments, then, and I'll tell you this: bad Linux deployments are just as common as bad Windows deployments. | Sep 06 08:07 |
| DaemonFC | __c, there's some bad distributions | Sep 06 08:07 |
| DaemonFC | don't use them, problem solved | Sep 06 08:07 |
| twitter1 | How is it that even M$ and the FBI are "crappy" ? | Sep 06 08:07 |
| DaemonFC | Xandros is probably the worst Linux distribution that's currently still maintained | Sep 06 08:08 |
| twitter1 | It's not the user's fault, it's Windows itself. | Sep 06 08:08 |
| __c | twitter1: because system administration requires a different skill set to "software development" and "solving crimes"? | Sep 06 08:08 |
| DaemonFC | you get to pay $50 to Microsoft for a promise that they won't sue you for each copy of Xandros | Sep 06 08:08 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Sep 06 08:08 |
| twitter1 | If the FBI can't lock itself down, no one can. | Sep 06 08:08 |
| DaemonFC | the $50 isn't a one time deal, it's PER COPY | Sep 06 08:08 |
| __c | twitter1: I can see I'm not getting anywhere. Tell you what, if it's so insecure, go set up a Vista VM, don't change any defaults, and try and crack it from the outside. Good luck with that. | Sep 06 08:09 |
| DaemonFC | if you use 100 copies of Xandros, you have to pay $5,000 for MS to promise to not sue your organization | Sep 06 08:09 |
| DaemonFC | which is just bullshit | Sep 06 08:09 |
| __c | twitter1: obviously, patch it first ;). Same goes for Linux. | Sep 06 08:09 |
| twitter1 | I don't need Vista or any other version of windows. | Sep 06 08:09 |
| __c | twitter1: then you've never put your claim to the test, but you feel happy making it? Amazing. | Sep 06 08:09 |
| twitter1 | Vista is just like any other version of Windows. | Sep 06 08:09 |
| DaemonFC | __c, there's really only a few Linux distributions I would consider using in a production environment | Sep 06 08:10 |
| twitter1 | People crack it all the time. | Sep 06 08:10 |
| __c | Fine, I don't argue with blind faith. | Sep 06 08:10 |
| DaemonFC | RHEL and its clones, or Debian would be good choices | Sep 06 08:10 |
| twitter1 | those are good distributions. | Sep 06 08:10 |
| __c | DaemonFC: I've mostly seen RHEL+Debian, with some Ubuntu+Slack thrown in occasionally. | Sep 06 08:10 |
| twitter1 | but I'd rather use Hanna Montana Linux than Windows. | Sep 06 08:10 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu LTS editions may be appropriate if you wait for the first point upgrade | Sep 06 08:10 |
| __c | DaemonFC: still, a badly-configured squid proxy is a badly-configured squid proxy. | Sep 06 08:11 |
| DaemonFC | __c, It's much easier to always get bad to mediocre results with Windows | Sep 06 08:11 |
| DaemonFC | lets all just use that | Sep 06 08:11 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Sep 06 08:11 |
| twitter1 | I wonder if anyone has bothered to do a Vista half life study yet. There's not enough people using it to make it worth while, but it would be fun to see if the time to 0wn has dropped below 3 minutes yet. | Sep 06 08:12 |
| DaemonFC | every laggy, error prone website I've seen out there, all the worst sites, use Windows and ASP(.NET) | Sep 06 08:12 |
| DaemonFC | and IIS | Sep 06 08:12 |
| DaemonFC | at least the ones that use PHP and Apache on Windows work sometimes | Sep 06 08:12 |
| DaemonFC | ASP and IIS are shit icing on the shit cake | Sep 06 08:13 |
| __c | DaemonFC: you mean like stackoverflow, which is pretty damn busy, but also very snappy and nice? | Sep 06 08:13 |
| twitter1 | you can get from Florida to Maine barefoot, but it's not the best way to go. | Sep 06 08:13 |
| DaemonFC | You want to see a good example of what Windows, IIS, and ASP do to a site, go to http://www.foxconnchannel.com | Sep 06 08:13 |
| DaemonFC | and watch every page load slowly or error out | Sep 06 08:13 |
| twitter1 | no thanks | Sep 06 08:14 |
| __c | DaemonFC: you can write shoddy code any any platform. Especially in PHP ;). | Sep 06 08:14 |
| DaemonFC | the front page loads, but navigating through the ASP pages looking for support or drivers, you'd get the impression that a stiff breeze could knock out their server | Sep 06 08:15 |
| __c | DaemonFC: asp isn't the recommended way any more, btw. All the cool kids are using MVC. | Sep 06 08:16 |
| DaemonFC | their latest catastrophe? | Sep 06 08:17 |
| __c | DaemonFC: good of you to say so with no idea about what it is. | Sep 06 08:17 |
| DaemonFC | nothing they've ever made works right | Sep 06 08:17 |
| DaemonFC | why would this? | Sep 06 08:17 |
| __c | DaemonFC: sorry, what? You're joking, right? | Sep 06 08:17 |
| DaemonFC | sadly, no | Sep 06 08:18 |
| __c | DaemonFC: you understand the idea of "all generalizations are false", don't you? | Sep 06 08:18 |
| DaemonFC | every Microsoft program is just an upsell to the next Microsoft program | Sep 06 08:18 |
| DaemonFC | there's no amount of their software you can buy that will deliver on what you need it to do | Sep 06 08:18 |
| __c | DaemonFC: FWIW, MVC is free (and open-source). Surprised? | Sep 06 08:18 |
| DaemonFC | under some bogus Microsoft license no doubt | Sep 06 08:19 |
| DaemonFC | or only useful with other Microsoft products | Sep 06 08:19 |
| __c | DaemonFC: no, an OSI-approved license. And interoperable with a bunch of non-Microsoft open-standards projects, such as jQuery. | Sep 06 08:20 |
| DaemonFC | the only "open source" Microsoft does it as plugins to their products | Sep 06 08:20 |
| DaemonFC | OSI is a joke | Sep 06 08:20 |
| __c | DaemonFC: look, why don't you just go and educate yourself about it. I'm giving you the facts, you're just coming back at me with paranoia. | Sep 06 08:20 |
| DaemonFC | they're willing to stretch the definition of "open" source to include jsut about any kind of horrible restrictions | Sep 06 08:21 |
| __c | DaemonFC: If you still feel the same way, come back and we can talk about it. But we'll then be talking on an equal level, as people who both know the technology. | Sep 06 08:21 |
| DaemonFC | does it work on other platforms? does Microsoft have patents on it? do you have to pay them more to guarantee they won't sue you? | Sep 06 08:22 |
| __c | DaemonFC: It works on Linux, yes. Microsoft has no patents on it. You don't have to pay them anything to use it. | Sep 06 08:23 |
| DaemonFC | unless everyone can use it on the same terms with no vague threats or coercions, it's not "open" | Sep 06 08:23 |
| __c | DaemonFC: yes, everyone can use it on the same terms with no vague threats or coercions. | Sep 06 08:24 |
| DaemonFC | __c, So you're saying someone could fork it, not pay Microsoft any money, and/or redistribute it freely with no threats of retaliation, royalties due, or patents licensed? | Sep 06 08:24 |
| __c | DaemonFC: now will you just go and read about it, so I don't have to be your tutor? | Sep 06 08:24 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft never does things like that | Sep 06 08:25 |
| twitter1 | Oh wow. M$ is insane. | Sep 06 08:25 |
| DaemonFC | they only distribute useless plugins with some angle that makes you go buy their stuff or pay them royalties | Sep 06 08:25 |
| DaemonFC | Mono is only one such contrivance, and it's not even the best example | Sep 06 08:25 |
| twitter1 | I did not care much about the 27 layoffs until I put it together with a recent warning by a US senator. | Sep 06 08:25 |
| DaemonFC | everything on Codeplex is fake "open" source that only works with their products, or on Windows | Sep 06 08:26 |
| __c | DaemonFC: YES. | Sep 06 08:26 |
| twitter1 | Just August 31, he told them to ditch H1B people first. It's like they fired 27 people just to piss in the senator's face. | Sep 06 08:26 |
| __c | DaemonFC: and Mono isn't even *made* by Microsoft, what are you talking about?? | Sep 06 08:26 |
| twitter1 | Bad move on their part. | Sep 06 08:26 |
| DaemonFC | there's at least some uncertainty about whether Microsoft could sue over Mono and win | Sep 06 08:26 |
| twitter1 | http://www.cio.com/article/478754/Microsoft_Layoffs_Add_More_Fuel_to_H_1B_Visa_Fire | Sep 06 08:26 |
| DaemonFC | the rest of their stuff isn't even that good | Sep 06 08:26 |
| twitter1 | -> Layoff announcements by IT vendors came fast and furious over the past two weeks. But it was Microsoft Corp. 's that drew the attention of a U.S. senator, who said it was "imperative" that the company give job priority to U.S. citizens over foreigners with H-1B visas. "Microsoft has a moral obligation to protect ... American workers by putting them first during these difficult economic times," Sen. Charle | Sep 06 08:27 |
| __c | DaemonFC: let's review. I tell you about something that exists. You say "Oh but it's not good". | Sep 06 08:27 |
| __c | DaemonFC: I show you that it is good (it runs stackoverflow, for example). | Sep 06 08:27 |
| DaemonFC | there's always a catch | Sep 06 08:27 |
| DaemonFC | an angle | Sep 06 08:27 |
| __c | DaemonFC: You say "But it's not open". | Sep 06 08:27 |
| DaemonFC | or an upsell | Sep 06 08:27 |
| __c | DaemonFC: And I point out that legally, and technically, yes-it-is. | Sep 06 08:28 |
| DaemonFC | if Microsoft is behind it, they're making money or threats somehow | Sep 06 08:28 |
| __c | DaemonFC: And you say "Oh but I have vague qualms about it anyway, based on nothing by my own prejudice". | Sep 06 08:28 |
| __c | DaemonFC: And I say "Fine, whatever dude, feel free to ignore reality". | Sep 06 08:28 |
| DaemonFC | no, their past examples of being everything but open | Sep 06 08:28 |
| DaemonFC | or approachable | Sep 06 08:29 |
| twitter1 | distrust of M$ is not prejudice, it's good judgment | Sep 06 08:29 |
| __c | DaemonFC: have I not shown you that every single point you've raised about MVC has been false? | Sep 06 08:29 |
| DaemonFC | I've reported problems with Microsoft products in their bug tracking systems years ago | Sep 06 08:29 |
| DaemonFC | some live on to this day | Sep 06 08:29 |
| __c | DaemonFC: So? There's a make bug that's been there for over 10 years. | Sep 06 08:30 |
| __c | DaemonFC: the solution? Don't use "make". | Sep 06 08:30 |
| twitter1 | What is MVC that you are so interested in? | Sep 06 08:30 |
| __c | twitter1: it's modular, it's RESTful, it integrates with anything, it's efficient, and it's easy. | Sep 06 08:31 |
| twitter1 | this shit? http://www.asp.net/mvc/ | Sep 06 08:31 |
| __c | twitter1: obviously, you've never used it. | Sep 06 08:32 |
| twitter1 | I've never even looked at it. Why would I want to get myself into some kind of IIS nasty? | Sep 06 08:32 |
| __c | twitter1: then run it on Apache. | Sep 06 08:33 |
| __c | twitter1: (or does your faith extend to not believing that any .Net product can run on Apache?) | Sep 06 08:33 |
| twitter1 | what does it have that the usual LAMP does not? | Sep 06 08:33 |
| twitter1 | .Net? No thanks. | Sep 06 08:33 |
| __c | twitter1: Nice URLs, easier and more modular REST. | Sep 06 08:34 |
| twitter1 | ASP URLs are "nice" ? | Sep 06 08:34 |
| twitter1 | nuts | Sep 06 08:34 |
| __c | e.g., instead of http://whatever.com/index.rb?action=GetUser&id=5, you can write http://whatever.com/User/5 | Sep 06 08:34 |
| twitter1 | uhhh, /~user5 | Sep 06 08:35 |
| __c | twitter1: again, you're commenting from ignorance. This is MVC, not down-the-line ASP.Net. | Sep 06 08:35 |
| twitter1 | are you trying to sell me something? | Sep 06 08:35 |
| __c | twitter1: brilliant. And when you want to do http://whatever/Reporting/SystemProcesses/3/Component/2/Detail, how do you workaround that with ~? | Sep 06 08:36 |
| __c | twitter1: no, I'm trying to educate you. | Sep 06 08:36 |
| twitter1 | looks like abusive trolling to me | Sep 06 08:37 |
| twitter1 | If I want fancy stuff with a large community, I'd probably look at Slashcode. | Sep 06 08:37 |
| __c | twitter1: I chalk that up to you being too blind to accept any of the facts that I'm throwing your way. But, fine, you know how to deal with trolls? You ignore them. So ignore me, it doesn't alter reality. | Sep 06 08:38 |
| twitter1 | they seem to have very nifty searches that work with large user bases. | Sep 06 08:38 |
| twitter1 | you are not throwing facts, you are throwing opinions | Sep 06 08:38 |
| __c | twitter1: It's my opinion that MVC is nice. It's a fact that it's RESTful, gives you nice URLs, is modular, etc. | Sep 06 08:39 |
| twitter1 | your opinion of "nice" and "modular" | Sep 06 08:40 |
| __c | twitter1: my opinion of nice. "modular" is a technical assessment. | Sep 06 08:40 |
| __c | twitter1: If you like REST architectures, and good URLs, and modularity, then you might also think it is nice. If you don't, fine, to each his own. | Sep 06 08:40 |
| twitter1 | you are wasting your time. I don't need .Net or any fancy web service. but if I do, I'm not going to M$ to get it. | Sep 06 08:40 |
| __c | twitter1: OK. Good luck with that prejudice, hope it gets you far. | Sep 06 08:41 |
| twitter1 | M$ has a long history of screwing people. I'm not getting anywhere near them. | Sep 06 08:41 |
| twitter1 | I don't need it. | Sep 06 08:42 |
| __c | Fine. I'm agreeing with you now, twitter1. This isn't going anywhere, so believe what you want. | Sep 06 08:42 |
| schestowitz | Maybe I should upgrade my OS today..... | Sep 06 08:42 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmm....... | Sep 06 08:42 |
| twitter1 | Good morning, Roy. | Sep 06 08:42 |
| schestowitz | Any distro with kde 4.3 in the repos? | Sep 06 08:42 |
| schestowitz | I know a few | Sep 06 08:42 |
| twitter1 | good question | Sep 06 08:43 |
| schestowitz | But which to choose? | Sep 06 08:43 |
| twitter1 | what are the options? | Sep 06 08:43 |
| twitter1 | You already have Mandriva. What does it have? | Sep 06 08:43 |
| schestowitz | kde 4.2.4. | Sep 06 08:43 |
| twitter1 | like Lenny. | Sep 06 08:44 |
| schestowitz | I want to keep this partition as a fallback | Sep 06 08:44 |
| schestowitz | Maybe I'll use my other partition to lodge a new environment | Sep 06 08:44 |
| *neighborlee has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 06 08:44 | |
| schestowitz | Then expand it if all goes well | Sep 06 08:44 |
| twitter1 | There's a lot of troll juice from last night. This was interesting http://www.cio.com/article/478754/Microsoft_Layoffs_Add_More_Fuel_to_H_1B_Visa_Fire | Sep 06 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Kubuntu does | Sep 06 08:45 |
| schestowitz | 4.3? | Sep 06 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | you can either use Karmic or install Jaunty and add the KDE backports repo | Sep 06 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Sep 06 08:45 |
| schestowitz | I don't trust my jewels with kubuntu | Sep 06 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | either way will get you KDE 4.3 | Sep 06 08:45 |
| schestowitz | kubuntu 8.04 is on my othr partition | Sep 06 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | I'd say Kubuntu Karmic is fine | Sep 06 08:45 |
| schestowitz | Either? | Sep 06 08:45 |
| schestowitz | It's alpha | Sep 06 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, it's already working fine | Sep 06 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | that's my opinion | Sep 06 08:46 |
| schestowitz | Which distro had nvidia already in? | Sep 06 08:46 |
| schestowitz | DOes Mint? | Sep 06 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | I'd trust the alpha of Karmic more than Jaunty | Sep 06 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | no | Sep 06 08:46 |
| schestowitz | alpha 5 has kde 4.3? | Sep 06 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | Nvidia is added through the restricted driver manager just like Ubuntu | Sep 06 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, yes | Sep 06 08:47 |
| schestowitz | OK | Sep 06 08:47 |
| schestowitz | You're sure alpha would be OK? | Sep 06 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | Jaunty was nothing but problems for me | Sep 06 08:47 |
| schestowitz | It's still 1.5 months away from release | Sep 06 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, get the alpha 5 CD, not the daily CD | Sep 06 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | that way it's guaranteed to install | Sep 06 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | and then just do a dist-upgrade after that | Sep 06 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | and it'll update to today's version of all the packages | Sep 06 08:48 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, By alpha 5 or 6, all the nasty stuff has usually been worked out | Sep 06 08:48 |
| schestowitz | BUT... | Sep 06 08:48 |
| schestowitz | What about updates? | Sep 06 08:48 |
| DaemonFC | I haven't ran into any show stoppers as of alpha 5 of Ubuntu or Kubuntu | Sep 06 08:48 |
| schestowitz | For alpha.. | Sep 06 08:48 |
| schestowitz | dist-upgrade? | Sep 06 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | I'm using all the current packages | Sep 06 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, yes | Sep 06 08:49 |
| schestowitz | Can't I just install 4.3 on a stable distro? | Sep 06 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | apt-get dist-upgrade | Sep 06 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | you could I guess | Sep 06 08:49 |
| schestowitz | I'd rather | Sep 06 08:49 |
| schestowitz | I also like Mandriva | Sep 06 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | if Jaunty works well enough on your hardware, just install KDE 4.3 from backports | Sep 06 08:50 |
| schestowitz | I'km gonna burn it, put it on another partition | Sep 06 08:50 |
| schestowitz | This way I have both current and new | Sep 06 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, KDE 4.3 may be unofficially available for Mandriva | Sep 06 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | I wouldn't install it though | Sep 06 08:50 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva is from Spring though | Sep 06 08:50 |
| schestowitz | Maybe not most up to date | Sep 06 08:50 |
| schestowitz | Let's see MEPIS | Sep 06 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | you'd be replacing Mandriva packages with ones from a foreign repository | Sep 06 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | recipe for disaster | Sep 06 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | I've ruined a Mandriva system with the unofficial KDE upgrades from KDE.org before | Sep 06 08:51 |
| schestowitz | https://www.mepis.org/ | Sep 06 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | at least with backports, it's from the same Kubuntu team and they know it at least installs and starts up | Sep 06 08:52 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, I wouldn't use that | Sep 06 08:52 |
| DaemonFC | I've tried the LiveCD and ran into several problems that made me decide not to install it | Sep 06 08:52 |
| DaemonFC | I couldn't figure out how to enable the network for one | Sep 06 08:52 |
| DaemonFC | it just totally didn't recognize my ethernet adapter | Sep 06 08:53 |
| DaemonFC | second, he's removed all file systems except for ext2 and ext3 | Sep 06 08:53 |
| twitter1 | here you go. http://www.kde.org/info/4.3.0.php | Sep 06 08:53 |
| DaemonFC | he's removed the XFS, JFS, and ReiserFS modules totally | Sep 06 08:53 |
| schestowitz | I'm fetching mandriva 2009.1 | Sep 06 08:53 |
| schestowitz | kde4 | Sep 06 08:53 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Kubuntu makes a better KDE distro than Mepis, by far | Sep 06 08:54 |
| twitter1 | Debian, Fedora, Kubuntu, Mandriva, openSUSE and Magic Linux | Sep 06 08:54 |
| DaemonFC | if that says anything | Sep 06 08:54 |
| twitter1 | hmph. I like Mepis. | Sep 06 08:54 |
| twitter1 | don't know about kubuntu | Sep 06 08:54 |
| schestowitz | http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/My+KDE+4.3+in+Mandriva+2009.1?content=109709 | Sep 06 08:54 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: kubuntu is not final for kde 4/3 | Sep 06 08:54 |
| schestowitz | *4.3 | Sep 06 08:54 |
| twitter1 | the info page has links to 4.3 packages | Sep 06 08:55 |
| twitter1 | what processor do you have? | Sep 06 08:55 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, I don't think you're risking a lot with alpha 5 or I wouldn't be using it | Sep 06 08:55 |
| twitter1 | http://download.kde.org/binarydownload.html?url=/stable/4.3.0/Mandriva/2009.1/x86_64 | Sep 06 08:55 |
| DaemonFC | but thats me, the programs I use, and my hardware | Sep 06 08:55 |
| twitter1 | http://download.kde.org/binarydownload.html?url=/stable/4.3.0/Mandriva/2009.0/i586 | Sep 06 08:56 |
| twitter1 | ? | Sep 06 08:56 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, if he manages to reboot the system after using that | Sep 06 08:56 |
| DaemonFC | I'll be very impressed | Sep 06 08:56 |
| schestowitz | It'll install on 8.4 gb, right? | Sep 06 08:57 |
| schestowitz | Surely it's enough | Sep 06 08:57 |
| twitter1 | SID should boot and work if KDE 4.3 works | Sep 06 08:57 |
| twitter1 | ftp://ftp.kde.org/pub/kde/stable/4.3.0/Mandriva/README | Sep 06 08:57 |
| twitter1 | hmph, no size or other requirements mentioned. | Sep 06 08:58 |
| twitter1 | ha ha SJVN can do it, anyone can http://blogs.computerworld.com/kde_4_3_is_here | Sep 06 08:59 |
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| twitter1 | OpenSUSE. Looks like you have to get a pet Lizard to be like SJVN. | Sep 06 09:00 |
| DaemonFC | my dad still uses OpenSuse | Sep 06 09:03 |
| DaemonFC | though I did get him using Ubuntu on his laptop | Sep 06 09:03 |
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| DaemonFC | OpenSuse didn't recognize his ethernet adapter | Sep 06 09:03 |
| DaemonFC | or his wifi | Sep 06 09:03 |
| schestowitz | Burning..... | Sep 06 09:04 |
| twitter1 | if you trust is debian-desktop.org you can get a Lenny backport. | Sep 06 09:04 |
| twitter1 | So, what did you decide to get? | Sep 06 09:04 |
| twitter1 | Free software is fun, it's always like walking around a candy store where you can have anything you see. | Sep 06 09:05 |
| DaemonFC | maybe I'm just used to GNOME or something, no matter what it does to anger me I still use it | Sep 06 09:08 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Ethiopian Review, heard of it? | Sep 06 09:08 |
| DaemonFC | they seem to be heavily biased towards Microsoft and Windows | Sep 06 09:09 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: scraper site | Sep 06 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | ahhh, just a bunch of op-ed stuff? | Sep 06 09:10 |
| twitter1 | more from the candy store. an actively developed cluster on a CD distribution http://pareto.uab.es/mcreel/PelicanHPC/ | Sep 06 09:11 |
| schestowitz | OK, cya from Mandriva 2009.1, hopefully. | Sep 06 09:13 |
| schestowitz | ta ra | Sep 06 09:13 |
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| roy___ | OK, I'm going with kubuntu 9.10, I think | Sep 06 09:32 |
| roy___ | I thought about Pardus, but it's no 4.3 | Sep 06 09:32 |
| roy___ | disto-updrade at least | Sep 06 09:33 |
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| roy___ | *dist | Sep 06 09:33 |
| roy___ | burning.... | Sep 06 09:36 |
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| schestowitz | Hey lads | Sep 06 11:29 |
| schestowitz | Still having ISP issues | Sep 06 11:30 |
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| schestowitz | I have kde4 installed | Sep 06 11:30 |
| schestowitz | ISP likes to redirect pages | Sep 06 11:30 |
| schestowitz | DHCP stuff | Sep 06 11:30 |
| schestowitz | Except that, kde 4.3 looks good | Sep 06 11:30 |
| schestowitz | bbl | Sep 06 11:31 |
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| schestowitz | network up | Sep 06 11:48 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: | Sep 06 11:48 |
| schestowitz | there? | Sep 06 11:48 |
| schestowitz | Kubuntu 9.10 is very nice indeed | Sep 06 11:49 |
| schestowitz | Nice installer | Sep 06 11:49 |
| schestowitz | Polished | Sep 06 11:49 |
| schestowitz | EVen in alpha | Sep 06 11:49 |
| schestowitz | I sorted out the network | Sep 06 11:49 |
| schestowitz | It was my own stupidy | Sep 06 11:49 |
| schestowitz | I didn't know the network manager well | Sep 06 11:49 |
| schestowitz | Had me confused... | Sep 06 11:49 |
| schestowitz | OK, does kubuntu have a restricted driver manager? | Sep 06 11:49 |
| schestowitz | Or is manual required? | Sep 06 11:49 |
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| schestowitz | apt-get install restricted-manager | Sep 06 11:52 |
| schestowitz | wow | Sep 06 11:57 |
| schestowitz | The Ubuntu team did a good job | Sep 06 11:57 |
| schestowitz | The driver is a click away | Sep 06 11:57 |
| schestowitz | In hardware settings | Sep 06 11:57 |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz, yeah, it has a restricted driver manager | Sep 06 12:01 |
| DaemonFC | sorry, was watching TV | Sep 06 12:01 |
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| schestowitz | kde4 is just.. WOW | Sep 06 13:15 |
| schestowitz | As much as I liked 3.5, this is just fantastic | Sep 06 13:15 |
| oiaohm | k 4.3 | Sep 06 13:16 |
| oiaohm | K 4.2 and before is not exactly fun. | Sep 06 13:16 |
| schestowitz | Maybe not | Sep 06 13:17 |
| schestowitz | I mean,,, | Sep 06 13:17 |
| schestowitz | All the old functionality is here | Sep 06 13:17 |
| schestowitz | Settings and everything | Sep 06 13:18 |
| schestowitz | So I never notice absence | Sep 06 13:18 |
| schestowitz | When I used kde 4.1 (elsewhere) some widgets I need were not there | Sep 06 13:18 |
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| schestowitz | I'm doing some repartitioning at the moment | Sep 06 13:20 |
| schestowitz | I'm dumping the old partitions | Sep 06 13:20 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, I figured a way around the Compiz bug that leaves the GNOME titlebars sticking out over your game | Sep 06 13:20 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Sep 06 13:20 |
| DaemonFC | other than turning off Compiz of course | Sep 06 13:21 |
| DaemonFC | virtual desktop of the same size as your display resolution, and set the games textures to your display resolution or at least as high as they go | Sep 06 13:21 |
| schestowitz | kde4 actually brings back to me some settings I had before I put compiz on kde3 | Sep 06 13:22 |
| schestowitz | compiz on kde3 disabled some settings that conflicted | Sep 06 13:23 |
| schestowitz | Like windows-specific configs... kde4 just puts all that in kwin | Sep 06 13:23 |
| DaemonFC | Compiz really bites actually, full of bugs | Sep 06 13:23 |
| DaemonFC | GNOME blows them off, they blow GNOME off | Sep 06 13:23 |
| schestowitz | It's not made tied to a DE | Sep 06 13:23 |
| schestowitz | Not quite | Sep 06 13:23 |
| schestowitz | They are upset that kde and gnome just use their code as is | Sep 06 13:24 |
| DaemonFC | heh, Compiz has a application switcher that works like Aero Flip3d :P | Sep 06 13:24 |
| schestowitz | I'm still lugging around about 700gb of backups | Sep 06 13:25 |
| schestowitz | I have complete backups of my suse 8.1 install even | Sep 06 13:25 |
| DaemonFC | I only back up files | Sep 06 13:26 |
| DaemonFC | backing up the entire system is what you do on Windows | Sep 06 13:26 |
| DaemonFC | mainly cause of the registry | Sep 06 13:26 |
| schestowitz | my gpu/de is a lot faster | Sep 06 13:26 |
| schestowitz | FAR more fps | Sep 06 13:26 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: not system, home dir | Sep 06 13:27 |
| schestowitz | So files+settings | Sep 06 13:27 |
| oiaohm | KDE 4.3 still has a major glitch not auto turning off desktop effects when other programs are full screen. | Sep 06 13:27 |
| schestowitz | Many snapshots | Sep 06 13:27 |
| schestowitz | I'm gonan use the gnome partitioner. Is it good? | Sep 06 13:27 |
| DaemonFC | Windows just throws things everywhere and programs tend to freak out if you move them or copy them and they can't find their registry keys | Sep 06 13:27 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, it's usable | Sep 06 13:28 |
| schestowitz | I just need to recover space from another partition | Sep 06 13:28 |
| DaemonFC | I've Suse-ified my Ubuntu :P | Sep 06 13:28 |
| schestowitz | It gives me a change to organise large volumes of backup | Sep 06 13:28 |
| trmanco | I KDEfied my Ubuntu | Sep 06 13:30 |
| schestowitz | Kubuntu mounts some drives as read-only | Sep 06 13:31 |
| schestowitz | or requiring root | Sep 06 13:31 |
| trmanco | still have some gnome stuff around here but I will pure kde in a week or so | Sep 06 13:31 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: I did this on two machines I currently have. They run Ubuntu with kde3 | Sep 06 13:31 |
| trmanco | I'm on kde4.3.1 | Sep 06 13:31 |
| schestowitz | same here | Sep 06 13:32 |
| trmanco | it's actually "kubuntu" now | Sep 06 13:32 |
| schestowitz | It doesn't feel like alpha | Sep 06 13:32 |
| trmanco | I also changed to kdm | Sep 06 13:32 |
| trmanco | I'm not using alpha | Sep 06 13:32 |
| trmanco | I'm on jaunty | Sep 06 13:32 |
| oiaohm | http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/09/05/2348206/Wheres-Waldo-the-Submarine << What was someone thinking. | Sep 06 13:33 |
| schestowitz | I suppose it'll be simple to upgrade from this alpha to final, right? | Sep 06 13:36 |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Ubuntu alphas and betas become the final version | Sep 06 13:41 |
| DaemonFC | just keep upgrading the packages | Sep 06 13:42 |
| DaemonFC | don't need to do anything else | Sep 06 13:42 |
| schestowitz | OK, cool. | Sep 06 13:50 |
| schestowitz | Passing 160gb to external HDD may take a while. I'm off to the gym.. | Sep 06 13:50 |
| schestowitz | it's ext4 and boots in about 20 seconds. | Sep 06 13:54 |
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| DaemonFC | http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dncwfa2&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19 | Sep 06 14:08 |
| DaemonFC | (PRODUCT) RED ™ [add $40] | Sep 06 14:08 |
| DaemonFC | Dell will contribute $5 to the Global Fund to help eliminate AIDS in Africa | Sep 06 14:08 |
| DaemonFC | how generous, that only leaves $35 profit for Dell | Sep 06 14:08 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 06 14:08 |
| trmanco | better than nothing | Sep 06 14:15 |
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| DaemonFC | trmanco, instead of the bullshit Product Red thing for $40 where they only donate $5 to charity | Sep 06 14:29 |
| DaemonFC | why don't you just get the normal model and send a check for $40 to charity | Sep 06 14:29 |
| DaemonFC | ? | Sep 06 14:29 |
| DaemonFC | the Product Red thing is a scam | Sep 06 14:29 |
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| trmanco | marketing I guess | Sep 06 14:30 |
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| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubuntu | Sep 06 14:43 |
| DaemonFC | you can't install it yet, but I believe it'll probably end up kicking Xubuntu's ass | Sep 06 14:43 |
| trmanco | lxde | Sep 06 14:46 |
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| _goblin | New build of Wine released today...... | Sep 06 16:01 |
| _goblin | just building now.... | Sep 06 16:01 |
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| trmanco | today? | Sep 06 16:21 |
| DaemonFC | no, still 1.1.29 | Sep 06 16:23 |
| DaemonFC | that was out 4 days ago | Sep 06 16:23 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, old | Sep 06 16:26 |
| schestowitz | Not much hype about it, though | Sep 06 16:26 |
| *schestowitz compared dir sizes | Sep 06 16:26 | |
| schestowitz | Almost half a million files | Sep 06 16:26 |
| _goblin | yeah just found it....my bad. | Sep 06 16:27 |
| trmanco | anybody tried arora? | Sep 06 16:27 |
| _goblin | ah....my RSS feed is reporting the .deb build...I see the source came out a few days ago. | Sep 06 16:28 |
| trmanco | IMO, it's a browser that has a bright future ahead | Sep 06 16:28 |
| _goblin | Ill have a look.... | Sep 06 16:29 |
| trmanco | I only tried 0.8, but there is a new version | Sep 06 16:30 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: do you use knode? | Sep 06 16:30 |
| trmanco | schestowitz: yes I do now :D | Sep 06 16:30 |
| schestowitz | I hope not 'too' much was changed | Sep 06 16:30 |
| schestowitz | I was good with keyboard shorcuts | Sep 06 16:30 |
| DaemonFC | I think I'm going to stay with GNOME for quite some time | Sep 06 16:30 |
| trmanco | I can't make box quotes | Sep 06 16:30 |
| schestowitz | That's how I post so fast to COLA. I hardly use mousing. | Sep 06 16:31 |
| trmanco | I've been with gnome long enough | Sep 06 16:31 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: give 4.3.1 a kick | Sep 06 16:31 |
| trmanco | I think it still is | Sep 06 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | GNOME hasn't changed much in years | Sep 06 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | not visibly at least | Sep 06 16:31 |
| trmanco | lack a integration | Sep 06 16:31 |
| schestowitz | 600k files moved to backup | Sep 06 16:31 |
| *schestowitz Now repartitions | Sep 06 16:31 | |
| trmanco | of* | Sep 06 16:32 |
| trmanco | kdev4 seem promising | Sep 06 16:32 |
| trmanco | I will have php support | Sep 06 16:32 |
| trmanco | it* | Sep 06 16:32 |
| trmanco | oh | Sep 06 16:33 |
| trmanco | the stable versions support it too | Sep 06 16:33 |
| trmanco | supports* | Sep 06 16:33 |
| trmanco | it's very complete with c++ | Sep 06 16:34 |
| *trmanco might start programming in c++ | Sep 06 16:34 | |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmm... | Sep 06 16:35 |
| schestowitz | Can I resize a monted partition if I make it bigger? | Sep 06 16:36 |
| schestowitz | *mounted | Sep 06 16:36 |
| trmanco | you will have to unmount it first I think | Sep 06 16:36 |
| schestowitz | i.e. use a live cd? | Sep 06 16:37 |
| schestowitz | I'm trying to extend my home ir | Sep 06 16:37 |
| schestowitz | *directory | Sep 06 16:37 |
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| trmanco | just mount that partition @ /home | Sep 06 16:39 |
| trmanco | I think you can do that | Sep 06 16:39 |
| schestowitz | I'm first shrinking another partition | Sep 06 16:40 |
| schestowitz | I doubt I can unmount /home in any way. | Sep 06 16:41 |
| schestowitz | I'm burnijng gparted | Sep 06 16:45 |
| schestowitz | I'd rather not risk the main partition | Sep 06 16:46 |
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| twitter1 | just buy another hard drive -> schestowitz: I'm trying to extend my home ir | Sep 06 17:10 |
| twitter1 | how big is your /home now? | Sep 06 17:11 |
| twitter1 | heh, network_manager drives me nuts. I usually nuke it and manually edit /etc/network/interfaces by hand. What's the secret to making it work? | Sep 06 17:19 |
| schestowitz | No, you misunderstand | Sep 06 17:20 |
| schestowitz | I have the partitions laid out improperly | Sep 06 17:20 |
| schestowitz | My new distro I put for testing in a 12gb partition | Sep 06 17:20 |
| schestowitz | So it's trapped there | Sep 06 17:20 |
| schestowitz | I'm trying to extend it at the expense of others | Sep 06 17:21 |
| schestowitz | I'm done buring gparted | Sep 06 17:21 |
| schestowitz | I'll do it with all partitions unmounted | Sep 06 17:21 |
| schestowitz | In the mean time I draft some posts for BN. Many coming. | Sep 06 17:21 |
| schestowitz | It can take hours to resize partitions of this size | Sep 06 17:22 |
| schestowitz | kate has impoved in kde4. I have some of my wishd there come true | Sep 06 17:22 |
| twitter1 | that will work, but 12 gb is plenty of space for binaires and it is easy to point /etc/fstab to a new drive. | Sep 06 17:22 |
| twitter1 | thanks for the kde 4 news and mini review of kubuntu | Sep 06 17:22 |
| schestowitz | My scripts rely on /home/roy/ | Sep 06 17:23 |
| schestowitz | I don't want to rewrite them | Sep 06 17:23 |
| schestowitz | Things that look for files in particular places | Sep 06 17:23 |
| twitter1 | well, sure, just rsync them. | Sep 06 17:23 |
| twitter1 | or symlink them | Sep 06 17:23 |
| schestowitz | I wonder how bad 4.0 could be | Sep 06 17:23 |
| schestowitz | Linus hated it | Sep 06 17:23 |
| schestowitz | I see it gained some features since I last tried it | Sep 06 17:24 |
| twitter1 | I don't know. I still would not give a new user 4.2 | Sep 06 17:24 |
| schestowitz | twitter1: easier to repartition | Sep 06 17:24 |
| schestowitz | I multitask anyway... just doin' it in the bg | Sep 06 17:24 |
| schestowitz | Oh, let's see if mono is here | Sep 06 17:25 |
| twitter1 | I tend to do all of my distro testing on a second machine, using whole drives. | Sep 06 17:25 |
| twitter1 | but then, it's been a long time since I did any distro testing. | Sep 06 17:25 |
| twitter1 | The Cajun Clickers Computer Club is a long way away now. | Sep 06 17:26 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, why not just use ~? | Sep 06 17:26 |
| twitter1 | all I have with me is my laptop, a EEE PC and a real junker of a P4. | Sep 06 17:27 |
| twitter1 | the P4 is using debian testing. | Sep 06 17:27 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: it will look under ~ | Sep 06 17:27 |
| schestowitz | What's the point? | Sep 06 17:27 |
| DaemonFC | I use ~ in place of my home folder in scripts | Sep 06 17:28 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Sep 06 17:28 |
| schestowitz | But that's the point | Sep 06 17:28 |
| DaemonFC | that way I never have to update them and it's one less typo and they work for anyone | Sep 06 17:28 |
| schestowitz | the partition with my home dir is too small | Sep 06 17:28 |
| schestowitz | Read the log | Sep 06 17:28 |
| DaemonFC | I probably should, I just saw the part about scripts relying on /home/roy | Sep 06 17:29 |
| DaemonFC | you can do that but it's not a good idea if you can avoid it | Sep 06 17:29 |
| schestowitz | I don't | Sep 06 17:29 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Mono is not a part of Kubuntu | Sep 06 17:29 |
| twitter1 | Even here though, I have hard drives sitting around. | Sep 06 17:30 |
| DaemonFC | they've downgraded it to a recommendation of ubuntu-desktop as well, so you can kill it and not take out your metapackage | Sep 06 17:30 |
| schestowitz | I know, I've just checked | Sep 06 17:30 |
| DaemonFC | it used to be a dependency of the metapackage | Sep 06 17:30 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva with KDE once grabbed it | Sep 06 17:30 |
| schestowitz | Accident with OOo bindings | Sep 06 17:30 |
| schestowitz | BN raised the issue, got over 100 comments, Mandriva fixed it | Sep 06 17:30 |
| twitter1 | USB sticks are cheap enough now that I've been able to try out Etch and Lenny on 8 GB sticks for my EEE PC. | Sep 06 17:31 |
| DaemonFC | Mandriva brings in a lot of GTK+/GNOME crap in their KDE version | Sep 06 17:32 |
| DaemonFC | it's twice as big as anyone else's KDE desktop | Sep 06 17:32 |
| DaemonFC | granted it works well enough, but damn, you know | Sep 06 17:32 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: true | Sep 06 17:32 |
| twitter1 | ick | Sep 06 17:32 |
| schestowitz | Firefox 3.5 uses ugly GTK, I think | Sep 06 17:32 |
| schestowitz | Looks like a misfit here | Sep 06 17:32 |
| schestowitz | I'll skin it | Sep 06 17:32 |
| twitter1 | just use Konqueror. | Sep 06 17:33 |
| schestowitz | Dolphin was improved | Sep 06 17:33 |
| schestowitz | it has a lot of the function of Jonq | Sep 06 17:33 |
| schestowitz | Even menu button for split video | Sep 06 17:33 |
| schestowitz | *view | Sep 06 17:33 |
| trmanco | there is a cool theme for firefox | Sep 06 17:33 |
| schestowitz | Konquerer uses qt4 now | Sep 06 17:33 |
| twitter1 | I think it has since 4.2 | Sep 06 17:33 |
| trmanco | but it still uses khtml | Sep 06 17:33 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, they have Firefox there, which comes with GTK+ bindings, which brings in the GTK+ theming engine for Ia-Ora | Sep 06 17:34 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox looks like ass on KDE without all that GTK+ stuff | Sep 06 17:34 |
| trmanco | schestowitz: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/5394 | Sep 06 17:34 |
| DaemonFC | then they have Totem, Cheese, Gstreamer, Pulseaudio | Sep 06 17:34 |
| DaemonFC | it's like KDE, the GNOME Edition | Sep 06 17:34 |
| twitter1 | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=qt+mozilla&aq=0&oq=qt+mozill&aqi=g1 | Sep 06 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | I've never understood the fetish with search indexing | Sep 06 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | any OS that needs a complicated search system like Beagle is broken | Sep 06 17:35 |
| twitter1 | find works for me | Sep 06 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | Windows and OS X need that | Sep 06 17:35 |
| twitter1 | don't know. | Sep 06 17:35 |
| DaemonFC | but really there's only one place you can or would stuff files on Linux | Sep 06 17:35 |
| schestowitz | There's Google Desktop | Sep 06 17:36 |
| schestowitz | Never used it, just recommended it to others | Sep 06 17:36 |
| schestowitz | I spoke to two mates at the gym today about KDE... they'll look into it | Sep 06 17:36 |
| DaemonFC | your home folder, which is (get this) stuffed with sub folders such as, Pictures, Documents, Music, Videos, and Downloads | Sep 06 17:36 |
| twitter1 | sometimes I wish I had a nice database for my photo collection, but I'm too lazy | Sep 06 17:36 |
| DaemonFC | how the hell do you get lost in that? | Sep 06 17:36 |
| schestowitz | 3 mates actually | Sep 06 17:36 |
| twitter1 | I have tens of thousands of pictures | Sep 06 17:37 |
| schestowitz | I just delete that ~/VIdeo nonsense | Sep 06 17:37 |
| schestowitz | They make it too much like Windows | Sep 06 17:37 |
| schestowitz | THey also do click to focus by default in KDE | Sep 06 17:37 |
| schestowitz | But they did this also in kde3 | Sep 06 17:37 |
| twitter1 | I keep them all in /var/www/photo | Sep 06 17:37 |
| DaemonFC | if you need a service running to catalog that when the search feature in Nautilus is sufficiently fast, you're pretty weird | Sep 06 17:37 |
| DaemonFC | then that's added to the fact that your photos library is probably cataloged in your photo library application | Sep 06 17:38 |
| twitter1 | it would be nice to have the photos searched by person and date ... | Sep 06 17:38 |
| DaemonFC | which even supports tags and maybe facial recognition | Sep 06 17:38 |
| twitter1 | I don't use a photo library application, they always drive me nuts. | Sep 06 17:38 |
| DaemonFC | I just never have used Beagle, and I probably never will need to | Sep 06 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Me enither | Sep 06 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Beagle is infected | Sep 06 17:39 |
| schestowitz | And there are other indexers | Sep 06 17:39 |
| DaemonFC | it consumed almost a hundred megs of RAM and thrashes the hard disk to organize an organized system | Sep 06 17:39 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 06 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Just slurping up many gigs of space | Sep 06 17:39 |
| schestowitz | And...... | Sep 06 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Useless.. never being used | Sep 06 17:39 |
| schestowitz | So I let the thing index like crazy, burn up space, and never even use it | Sep 06 17:39 |
| twitter1 | I just mount the camera card, sort the pictures by hand and make html indexes. | Sep 06 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Beter to use find | grep | Sep 06 17:39 |
| DaemonFC | they're saying these GNOME distros run on 256 megs, and that's why I call bullshit | Sep 06 17:40 |
| DaemonFC | not unless you gut the really stupid crap out | Sep 06 17:40 |
| DaemonFC | cause Beagle alone takes over 100 megs | Sep 06 17:40 |
| schestowitz | twitter1: Konq does the indexing for pictures | Sep 06 17:40 |
| trmanco | don't use that crap | Sep 06 17:40 |
| schestowitz | in KDE 3.1 it had some nice features | Sep 06 17:40 |
| schestowitz | But better programs exist now | Sep 06 17:40 |
| twitter1 | yeah, I use that sometimes | Sep 06 17:40 |
| twitter1 | I still like igal | Sep 06 17:40 |
| DaemonFC | anyway, bbl | Sep 06 17:41 |
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| twitter1 | it makes simple indexes and slideshow | Sep 06 17:41 |
| schestowitz | jono: I'm moving to kubuntu on main machine | Sep 06 17:41 |
| twitter1 | it also has nice options to tweak if you don't like the defaults | Sep 06 17:41 |
| schestowitz | jono: Loving it so far. alpha 5 of 9.10 | Sep 06 17:41 |
| jono | schestowitz, awesome :) | Sep 06 17:42 |
| schestowitz | twitter1: http://schestowitz.com/Interests/Screenshots/Street_Fighter_2/ | Sep 06 17:42 |
| jono | schestowitz, be sure to blog :) | Sep 06 17:42 |
| trmanco | street fighter | Sep 06 17:43 |
| schestowitz | jono: sure, let me settle in first... many things to restore | Sep 06 17:43 |
| trmanco | I still have that game around for my super nintendo | Sep 06 17:43 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: yes, run on emulator in GNU | Sep 06 17:43 |
| trmanco | it hasn't been turned on for years | Sep 06 17:43 |
| twitter1 | yep, igal goodness | Sep 06 17:43 |
| twitter1 | getting rid of the photo effect is a good move. | Sep 06 17:44 |
| schestowitz | twitter1: I made customisations for it | Sep 06 17:44 |
| schestowitz | To automate styling | Sep 06 17:44 |
| schestowitz | I'll get an example..\ | Sep 06 17:44 |
| twitter1 | you can also size the pictures | Sep 06 17:44 |
| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Family_Photos/ | Sep 06 17:44 |
| schestowitz | Loads there | Sep 06 17:44 |
| schestowitz | Open the latter ones to see | Sep 06 17:45 |
| twitter1 | I've done a little customization, but most of the options I wanted were already there. | Sep 06 17:45 |
| schestowitz | Like this: http://schestowitz.com/Family_Photos/Webcam/2005/08/10082005/images.html | Sep 06 17:45 |
| twitter1 | ack! your photos end in 2006.... | Sep 06 17:46 |
| twitter1 | I like the page though. | Sep 06 17:46 |
| twitter1 | I'll send you an email with my version of igal. | Sep 06 17:47 |
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| schestowitz | twitter1: I gave up after a year | Sep 06 17:54 |
| schestowitz | I didn't miss a day | Sep 06 17:54 |
| schestowitz | twitter1: no need to mail me | Sep 06 17:54 |
| schestowitz | I no longer do these | Sep 06 17:54 |
| schestowitz | I also had screenshots done automatically | Sep 06 17:55 |
| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/screenshots/ | Sep 06 17:55 |
| schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/screenshots/images.html | Sep 06 17:55 |
| twitter1 | wow. I never do pictures more than once a week or so. I let them collect on my camera. | Sep 06 17:55 |
| twitter1 | screenshots are a special effort that I only do when I think something is interesting | Sep 06 17:56 |
| schestowitz | Mostly automated | Sep 06 17:56 |
| schestowitz | I don't view them, though | Sep 06 17:56 |
| schestowitz | It was nice as an exercise | Sep 06 17:56 |
| schestowitz | lots of imagemagaick | Sep 06 17:57 |
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| schestowitz | Just got an interetsing mail | Sep 06 17:57 |
| schestowitz | "I see that you were an avid SuSE fan! So was I. My first Linux distro was RH5.0. In Sept of 1998 I switched to SuSE and purchased 22 boxed sets. Then Novell bought them. I was on the SuSE UseNet newsgroup, which Novel took over, and one of the first messages they posted was that SuSE owners would, from then on, be required to get written permission, from a lady whose name I can't remember anymore, IF you wanted | Sep 06 17:57 |
| schestowitz | "I posted a message on the newsgroup reminding them of the terms of the GPL and how their new requirement was a breech of contract. That started a firestorm. Even then, as now, there were folks (I suspect Novell employees) who attacked anyone who supported the GPL. They twisted the meaning of the four freedoms in ways I didn't think a logical person could do in order to justify Novell's actions. " | Sep 06 17:57 |
| *amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@ppp121-45-54-224.lns11.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 06 17:58 | |
| schestowitz | "Novell backed down after "Mark" (who posted the original msg) consulted "someone" (I suspect a Novell attorney) and recanted the new rule. But, I could see the handwriting on the wall and I decided to look for more GPL-greener pastures. History bore my suspicions out." | Sep 06 17:58 |
| schestowitz | "Novell then bought Ximian and de Icaza. That gave them control over GNOME, Evolution and MONO. I believe that de Icaza is and always has been an MS mole. I believe he became one in 1999 when he was invited, along with his partner Nate, to come to Redmond and talk about a job. " | Sep 06 17:58 |
| schestowitz | "MS couldn't hire him as an employee because he had only a student visa, but I suspect they hired him as a PAID consultant operating out of his Mexican home, and he's been doing his best to infect Linux with MS IP every since." | Sep 06 17:58 |
| schestowitz | "Within a couple years Novell and MS signed their infamous "agreement" and Novell started paying MS a royalty for each copy of SLES sold. It's like a jail-house confession where the person says "I confess, HE did it!". For $300M Novell "admits" that Linux contains MS IP. Then they proceed to do an end-run around the GPL by dividing FOSS developers into two groups, those who contribute to the SLES and those who | Sep 06 17:58 |
| schestowitz | " To the former MS grants "immunity" from future MS lawsuits, but not to the latter. This agreement adds a "right" to some FOSS coders but NOT the others. The GPL strictly forbids this, because all recipients of GPL code should enjoy ALL the right of the GPL, so legally, IMO, Novell is not allowed to distribute GPL software. But, no one in the FSF or other Linux organizations with any clout has the courage to ca | Sep 06 17:58 |
| schestowitz | "Just the contrary, they give tacit approval of the deal!" | Sep 06 17:58 |
| schestowitz | "I was stunned when the Ubuntu Technical Board voted, on June 29th, 2009, to make future releases of the Ubuntu desktop remix DEPENDENT upon MONO. That would give Ubuntu TWO desktop APIs (GTK2 & MONO) but it needs only one." | Sep 06 17:59 |
| schestowitz | "My suspicions are that the next step would be to either replace the GTK API with MONO's and create Ubuntu's desktop ENTIRELY out of MONO, using the gui parts of MONO, or to weave GTK and MONO together in such a way that MONO's operation is not impaired but it cannot be removed without wiping out GTK and the DE at the same time." | Sep 06 17:59 |
| schestowitz | "Luckily, it was revealed in mid July that contrary to the clams of MONO proponents, and Microsoft's "Promise", the ECMA 334 & 335 standard applied ONLY to C# and the CLI, but NOT to the GUI parts of MONO. As I said before, either de Icaza was caught in a lie or he was caught with his pants down, because he and his MONO acolytes had been assuring us that MONO was TOTALLY SAFE from MS IP contamination. " | Sep 06 17:59 |
| schestowitz | "I cannot see him NOT knowing the difference, considering that he has been working hand in hand with Microsoft developers and management for nearly ten years as he recreated .NET in Linux." | Sep 06 17:59 |
| schestowitz | Fin. | Sep 06 18:00 |
| schestowitz | We're pretty much right on target with Novell | Sep 06 18:00 |
| schestowitz | SUSE folks agree (those who left it mostly) | Sep 06 18:00 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft sued over Windows Genuine Advantage http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/43878/118/ | Sep 06 18:03 |
| schestowitz | Windows 7 preinstallation kits for system builders delayed http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/09/windows-7-preinstallation-kits-for-system-builders-delayed.ars | Sep 06 18:03 |
| schestowitz | THings don't work well for them | Sep 06 18:03 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: you should throw a kde 4.3 party (yeah, I know you're a gnome person) | Sep 06 18:03 |
| _goblin | lol | Sep 06 18:04 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7: when people party over a product they have not even tried yet | Sep 06 18:04 |
| schestowitz | "proactive hype\" | Sep 06 18:04 |
| schestowitz | Celebrate first, shout at the PC later | Sep 06 18:04 |
| _goblin | how about a "copy party".....takes me back (and coincidently Im listening to Amiga demoscene mods at the moment.) | Sep 06 18:04 |
| schestowitz | Star Wars party | Sep 06 18:05 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft moves to dismiss new complaint in X-Box suit http://www.madisonrecord.com/news/220860-microsoft-moves-to-dismiss-new-complaint-in-x-box-suit. | Sep 06 18:05 |
| schestowitz | http://www.madisonrecord.com/news/220860-microsoft-moves-to-dismiss-new-complaint-in-x-box-suit | Sep 06 18:05 |
| _goblin | WWE party? | Sep 06 18:05 |
| *amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Sep 06 18:07 | |
| schestowitz | WWF party | Sep 06 18:07 |
| schestowitz | Bring your own plank | Sep 06 18:08 |
| schestowitz | WE party (waggener) - bring your own shill | Sep 06 18:08 |
| _goblin | its chairs not planks now Roy!....Maybe Ballmer would make a good wrestler? | Sep 06 18:09 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, he likes to party too | Sep 06 18:10 |
| schestowitz | Leaping in launch parties | Sep 06 18:10 |
| schestowitz | Maybe he leaps because of the free copy of VIsta (7) | Sep 06 18:10 |
| schestowitz | "I. Love. This. Free copy. Yeaaaaaaaaah" | Sep 06 18:11 |
| twitter1 | lol | Sep 06 18:11 |
| twitter1 | mail him Ubuntu | Sep 06 18:11 |
| twitter1 | "I. Love. Your. Failing Business Model!!!!1" | Sep 06 18:12 |
| schestowitz | You forgot the "yeahhhhhhhhh" | Sep 06 18:13 |
| twitter1 | too busy drooling | Sep 06 18:13 |
| schestowitz | [waves arms] | Sep 06 18:13 |
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| twitter1 | I can do that, but I fell over after suffering a mild, drug induced stroke. | Sep 06 18:13 |
| schestowitz | 16 mins left for partition to shrink | Sep 06 18:14 |
| twitter1 | Yeaaaaaahhhh! | Sep 06 18:14 |
| schestowitz | Takes like 2 hours to do 200gb | Sep 06 18:14 |
| _goblin | Wheres the skill of chip music composition gone???? | Sep 06 18:14 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: MAFIAA took it to the back and shot it in the head | Sep 06 18:14 |
| schestowitz | I'm listening to the radio ATM | Sep 06 18:14 |
| _goblin | Probably..... | Sep 06 18:14 |
| schestowitz | Trash... Galaxy 102 | Sep 06 18:15 |
| twitter1 | bbl | Sep 06 18:15 |
| schestowitz | My media partition is unmounted, so... | Sep 06 18:15 |
| _goblin | Im a Talksport fan. | Sep 06 18:15 |
| _goblin | and LBC | Sep 06 18:15 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/technology-gadgets/microsoft-plans-to-become-key-provider-of-news-to-british-audiences-14474796.html | Sep 06 18:15 |
| schestowitz | Yay! Microsoft will bring us news | Sep 06 18:15 |
| schestowitz | With the Bill flava' | Sep 06 18:16 |
| _goblin | if that happens the price of manure will go down...with all that bullsh** over the airwaves there will be no need for it.... | Sep 06 18:17 |
| schestowitz | Don't onsult manure, mate | Sep 06 18:17 |
| schestowitz | *insult | Sep 06 18:17 |
| schestowitz | Manure has at least value | Sep 06 18:17 |
| schestowitz | They transport it as S.H.I.T. (urban myth) | Sep 06 18:17 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft has no products | Sep 06 18:17 |
| schestowitz | It has 01 and 1s | Sep 06 18:18 |
| schestowitz | And bogus news | Sep 06 18:18 |
| schestowitz | Manure you can't replicate | Sep 06 18:18 |
| schestowitz | It needs organic material and liev stock | Sep 06 18:18 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft code is not only shoddy but it's also as abandant as you wish to make it | Sep 06 18:18 |
| schestowitz | Unlike oxygen | Sep 06 18:18 |
| schestowitz | wb, _Hicham_ | Sep 06 18:19 |
| _goblin | ;) lol. | Sep 06 18:19 |
| trmanco | I use oxygen | Sep 06 18:19 |
| _Hicham_ | hi schestowitz | Sep 06 18:19 |
| _goblin | I do on occasion.....that is until MS patents the process of breathing in and out. | Sep 06 18:20 |
| trmanco | not that kind of oxygen :-P | Sep 06 18:20 |
| trmanco | I am talking about the kde theme | Sep 06 18:20 |
| _goblin | lol | Sep 06 18:21 |
| _Hicham_ | is GPL the oxygen of computers ? | Sep 06 18:21 |
| *schestowitz just moved to oxygem (kde 4.3.1) | Sep 06 18:24 | |
| schestowitz | Oxygen themes worth exploration, trmanco? | Sep 06 18:24 |
| schestowitz | I use the default | Sep 06 18:24 |
| trmanco | me too | Sep 06 18:24 |
| schestowitz | I like it that way and apps seem to work OK with it | Sep 06 18:24 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : u said u r still using Mandriva 2008 | Sep 06 18:24 |
| trmanco | they all work okay because it was tested correctly | Sep 06 18:24 |
| schestowitz | In kde 3.5 making it all very dark means some off GUI visibility issues sometimes | Sep 06 18:25 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I moved on | Sep 06 18:25 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : great | Sep 06 18:25 |
| schestowitz | I had more free time this weekend | Sep 06 18:25 |
| schestowitz | Also, Mandriva's patches end soon, afaik | Sep 06 18:25 |
| schestowitz | 18 months?? | Sep 06 18:25 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : to Mandriva 2009.1 ? | Sep 06 18:26 |
| trmanco | are you using compiz or kwin? | Sep 06 18:26 |
| trmanco | I've heard kwin's effects were sluggish... but not in my case | Sep 06 18:29 |
| trmanco | I've heard so many bad things about kde 4, on not even half were true | Sep 06 18:29 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: kwin | Sep 06 18:29 |
| trmanco | cool | Sep 06 18:29 |
| trmanco | I'm using kwin too | Sep 06 18:30 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: FAR quicker than in Mandriva | Sep 06 18:30 |
| trmanco | I really like the alt+f2 thingy | Sep 06 18:30 |
| trmanco | :D | Sep 06 18:30 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: put 1+1= in it | Sep 06 18:33 |
| trmanco | wow | Sep 06 18:33 |
| trmanco | :D | Sep 06 18:33 |
| trmanco | I didn't know about that | Sep 06 18:33 |
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| trmanco | I usually use it to launch "hidden" apps like htop or ksysguard | Sep 06 18:34 |
| trmanco | I wonder if it can google for something | Sep 06 18:34 |
| schestowitz | it has many functions | Sep 06 18:34 |
| schestowitz | google it | Sep 06 18:34 |
| trmanco | I know the k launcher can | Sep 06 18:34 |
| trmanco | it does search on google | Sep 06 18:35 |
| trmanco | click the ? | Sep 06 18:35 |
| schestowitz | No, there are demos/trours of it | Sep 06 18:39 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=heM&q=kde4+launcher+tour&btnG=Search&meta= | Sep 06 18:40 |
| hmmm, a "no locking down Windows 7" article. I wonder if I got that from BN. http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS243345+03-Sep-2009+BW20090903 | Sep 06 18:40 | |
| schestowitz | I put it in IRC | Sep 06 18:41 |
| UAC continues to be a poor substitute for real users like Unix has -> Windows 7 will bring little relief for enterprises seeking to deploy end users as standard users, i.e., users without administrator rights. While changes to Windows 7`s UAC benefit the home user market, enterprises must be aware that the new "slider" feature is only for administrators and may increase security risks. | Sep 06 18:41 | |
| schestowitz | No post yet | Sep 06 18:41 |
| ah. | Sep 06 18:41 | |
| Needs to go into Vista 7 failure log. | Sep 06 18:42 | |
| trmanco | schestowitz: it can | Sep 06 18:42 |
| trmanco | google: [query] | Sep 06 18:42 |
| trmanco | how awesome is that? | Sep 06 18:42 |
| schestowitz | Fast | Sep 06 18:43 |
| schestowitz | But "Linux always imitates" | Sep 06 18:43 |
| schestowitz | So they say | Sep 06 18:43 |
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| _Hicham_ | Linux is imitating schestowitz | Sep 06 18:44 |
| schestowitz | I imitated _Hicham_ | Sep 06 18:44 |
| schestowitz | It's not imitation, it's inspiration | Sep 06 18:45 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : do u think that Miguel can base GNOME 4.0 on Mono ? | Sep 06 18:45 |
| trmanco | of course he can | Sep 06 18:46 |
| _Hicham_ | that sounds very scary | Sep 06 18:46 |
| __c | Sounds fine to me ... | Sep 06 18:46 |
| _Hicham_ | he is tainting the GTK libraries | Sep 06 18:47 |
| __c | More rapid development? Sure. | Sep 06 18:47 |
| there's a big difference between following best practices, like free software tends to do, and slavish aping like mono. | Sep 06 18:47 | |
| __c | Fewer SIGSEGVs? Bring it on. | Sep 06 18:47 |
| trmanco | make it slower too | Sep 06 18:47 |
| ick, I have to ignore the .Net pushing troll __c | Sep 06 18:47 | |
| __c | twitter: there's a big difference between knowing what you're talking about, like I do, and slavishly spouting the party line, which you are doing. | Sep 06 18:47 |
| trmanco | make more of a memory hog (yeah) | Sep 06 18:47 |
| __c | twitter: have you ever used Mono? No. So, the less from you, the better. | Sep 06 18:48 |
| *__c shrugs | Sep 06 18:48 | |
| Please take ,Net where people might need it, __c. I suggest you get a time machine and set it for 1993. | Sep 06 18:48 | |
| __c | As long as they choose the right route for them. If it's Vala, that's cool, and if it's Mono, that's cool too. | Sep 06 18:49 |
| __c | twitter: thanks for telling every developer on Linux that they don't need an entire software ecosystem. They thank you for your consideration. | Sep 06 18:50 |
| trmanco | schestowitz: you missed a channel join :-P | Sep 06 18:50 |
| _Hicham_ | __c : are u a C# developer ? | Sep 06 18:50 |
| __c | _Hicham_: and Python, and F#, and C++, and C, and ... | Sep 06 18:50 |
| __c | My favorite is Python, in fact. But for scalability and maintainability, I go with C#. | Sep 06 18:51 |
| _Hicham_ | __c : currently working on any project ? | Sep 06 18:51 |
| __c | _Hicham_: a few, yes. | Sep 06 18:51 |
| trmanco | I stick with scripting | Sep 06 18:51 |
| _Hicham_ | __c : open source ones ? | Sep 06 18:52 |
| __c | _Hicham_: not at present, although there's hope that my company will See the Light at some future point. They might as well -- they're not a tech company. | Sep 06 18:53 |
| _Hicham_ | do u think that C# is easy to maintain than Python ? | Sep 06 18:53 |
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| __c | _Hicham_: absolutely. Static typing, or type inference, removes a class of errors that are only picked up by the python runtime. | Sep 06 18:54 |
| __c | _Hicham_: What I've done (until 4.0 comes out with the "dynamic" keyword) is host Python in C# for my data-mangling, and use C# to structure the data before Python gets to it. | Sep 06 18:55 |
| _Hicham_ | so u are a strong believer is static typing ? | Sep 06 18:55 |
| _Hicham_ | *in | Sep 06 18:55 |
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| sebsebseb | hi | Sep 06 18:56 |
| __c | _Hicham_: for larger projects? Absolutely. Or type inference. | Sep 06 18:56 |
| trmanco | hello | Sep 06 18:56 |
| _Hicham_ | __c : large projects, or mission critical projects ? | Sep 06 18:56 |
| __c | _Hicham_: large. I've done mission-critical in dynamic languages, which work just as well. | Sep 06 18:57 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: which channel join? | Sep 06 18:58 |
| trmanco | schestowitz: social | Sep 06 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Oh | Sep 06 18:59 |
| schestowitz | You'll need to mail me those logs later. | Sep 06 18:59 |
| ick, I turn my back for a second and I come back to .Net shill talk. | Sep 06 18:59 | |
| trmanco | schestowitz: nobody said anything there | Sep 06 18:59 |
| __c | twitter: we're all shills if we disagree with you, eh? You just can't conceive of the notion that you could be incorrect. | Sep 06 18:59 |
| Boycott Novell does not need this shit. | Sep 06 19:00 | |
| __c | twitter: And, more important, you haven't even used the technology, but you feel fully capable of expressing extreme opinions about it. Astounding. | Sep 06 19:00 |
| please fill the BN IRC log with the glories of .Net, shill. | Sep 06 19:00 | |
| trmanco | how do you know that? | Sep 06 19:00 |
| __c | twitter: If "Boycott Novell" is about sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting "La La La", then I think we could all do with less of that. | Sep 06 19:01 |
| Roy will tell you what BN is about. I'll tell you that .Net is a useless patent trap. | Sep 06 19:01 | |
| *jono has quit ("Later, Skater") | Sep 06 19:01 | |
| If you want less of my opinion, quit spamming BN. | Sep 06 19:01 | |
| __c | twitter: And I accept that there could be patent issues. Just like Mark Shuttleworth, it's a bridge I'll burn if I ever come to it. | Sep 06 19:02 |
| So you agree with my "extreme" view. LOL. | Sep 06 19:02 | |
| __c | twitter: if the difference between us is that I have a more open mind, then I'll take that remark as a compliment. | Sep 06 19:03 |
| you don't have an open mind, you are a spammer. | Sep 06 19:03 | |
| _Hicham_ | time to break fast, bbl | Sep 06 19:04 |
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| __c | twitter: I thought I was a "shill". But give me your email address, and just because you're an annoying git, I'll happily sign you up to every mailing list I can think of. | Sep 06 19:04 |
| cubezzz | router died _again_ | Sep 06 19:04 |
| trmanco | enough already! | Sep 06 19:04 |
| ask the M$ people, they already do that | Sep 06 19:04 | |
| cubezzz | really just the power supply, as always :-/ | Sep 06 19:05 |
| cubezzz | I really should buy some spares | Sep 06 19:05 |
| trmanco | as long as it's the power sup | Sep 06 19:05 |
| trmanco | supply* you are good | Sep 06 19:05 |
| trmanco | :) | Sep 06 19:06 |
| here's the email address I use on most boards, billg@microsoft.com | Sep 06 19:06 | |
| get to work, __c | Sep 06 19:06 | |
| ThistleWeb | wow, twitter accusing someone of being a shill, there's something you don't see every day | Sep 06 19:06 |
| trmanco | LOL | Sep 06 19:06 |
| __c | *heh* | Sep 06 19:06 |
| cubezzz | voltage was fine, I guess the amperage was wrong on the ps | Sep 06 19:07 |
| Balrog_ | __c: I can't support C# myself; there are plenty of alternate languages that are equivalent or superior. But if you're writing a GUI wrapper for use by Windows users, maybe it's ok. | Sep 06 19:07 |
| Balrog_ | I know that Handbrake has a C# GUI for Windows | Sep 06 19:07 |
| Balrog_ | (or C# gui code) | Sep 06 19:07 |
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| oh yeah, when you sign up for Slashdot accounts, always use a hotmail or whatever M$ uses these days. Make sure to have Slashdot email all replies. That way you divert a small portion of the cost of M$ spam back to M$ storage. | Sep 06 19:10 | |
| trmanco | that will put hotmail offline :-P | Sep 06 19:10 |
| Balrog_ | I use my main account for everything and get little spam | Sep 06 19:10 |
| Balrog_ | the email address is all over the web :P | Sep 06 19:10 |
| *trmanco still remembers the days where he had only *2MB* of storage with Hotmail ! | Sep 06 19:11 | |
| __c | Balrog_: ... well, I can understand that view, and I fully support it. What bothers me is people not trying something, and yet having firm opinions about it. | Sep 06 19:11 |
| kmail makes spam filtering easy. Cox gets lots of spam. | Sep 06 19:11 | |
| __c | Balrog_: myself, I just haven't been able to love Java -- even in my undergrad days. C++ was my poison of choice back then. | Sep 06 19:12 |
| my email address is also all over the web, but I'm on the M$ shit list. | Sep 06 19:12 | |
| trmanco | and again I ask: How do you know that he has never tried mono? | Sep 06 19:12 |
| Balrog_ | __c: best way to do stuff (IMHO) is to write the core in some cross platform language (Java, C, C++) and GUI in whatever is ideal | Sep 06 19:12 |
| spam that gets through filters ends up in the inbox. real mail goes to subfolders | Sep 06 19:12 | |
| __c | Balrog_: this is why I dig web services ;). Perfect separation, and you can use whatever you want to do the front-end ^_^. | Sep 06 19:12 |
| Cox filters are malicious, so I don't really use that address for anything now. Gmail takes care of me with imap and pop. | Sep 06 19:13 | |
| Balrog_ | __c: Java 1.5 and (1.)6 are actually pretty nice, at this point. The arcane stuff from <=1.4 is mostly gone | Sep 06 19:13 |
| people worry about gmail keeping copies but all ISPs do and no one will let you run a mail server. | Sep 06 19:14 | |
| even if you do run a mail server, most companies block dynamic addresses. | Sep 06 19:14 | |
| to run email, you almost have to rent a box. | Sep 06 19:14 | |
| __c | Balrog_: I don't keep up much with Java, did 1.6 come out recently? | Sep 06 19:15 |
| __c | Balrog_: every 6 months or so, I give it a try again. I know an awesome Java programmer, and I pretty much keep trying it because he keeps recommending it. | Sep 06 19:15 |
| Balrog_ | __c: 1.6 is rather recent. 1.5 fixed most of the major issues though | Sep 06 19:15 |
| privacy is in the toilet and spam reigns on everyone thanks to Windows, bad ISP policies and spammers like __c. | Sep 06 19:15 | |
| Balrog_ | __c: still, you can do things the old way if you wish | Sep 06 19:15 |
| __c | Balrog_: heck no. The "old" Java way annoys me -- if there's a new Java way, I want to do that! | Sep 06 19:16 |
| Balrog_ | that's what I meant :) | Sep 06 19:16 |
| __c | Balrog_: Frankly, I wish that all Java programmers would just settle on Scala as the default JVM language ;). Now *that* would make me happy in their world ^_^ ! | Sep 06 19:17 |
| promoting .Net, trashing java..... | Sep 06 19:17 | |
| __c | Balrog_: I'll definitely give 1.6 a try, when I have a spare moment. Probably update Eclipse, too ... | Sep 06 19:17 |
| paging captain obvious ... | Sep 06 19:17 | |
| Balrog_ | __c: what do you use for C/C++ programming? I use Eclipse + CDT | Sep 06 19:18 |
| Balrog_ | most of the time | Sep 06 19:18 |
| __c | Balrog_: MonoDevelop/Vim on Linux, VC++/Vim on Windows. | Sep 06 19:18 |
| Balrog_ | I meant C/C++ | Sep 06 19:18 |
| Balrog_ | not C# | Sep 06 19:18 |
| Balrog_ | Vim, right? | Sep 06 19:19 |
| __c | Balrog_: yep. MonoDevelop can do C/C++ as well ;). | Sep 06 19:19 |
| Balrog_ | hmm ok. idk, I tolerate Eclipe | Sep 06 19:19 |
| Balrog_ | Eclipse * | Sep 06 19:19 |
| __c | Balrog_: vim was what I learned on, and I like it. Old-fashioned, but it does the job just fine. | Sep 06 19:19 |
| Balrog_ | yes, I use vim | Sep 06 19:20 |
| Balrog_ | no nice features though | Sep 06 19:20 |
| Balrog_ | I'm trying to learn emacs | Sep 06 19:20 |
| trmanco | emacs has a huge learning curve | Sep 06 19:20 |
| Balrog_ | maybe, but it's powerful | Sep 06 19:20 |
| trmanco | yes true | Sep 06 19:21 |
| __c | Balrog_: heh, I don't know ... I've customised my vim quite extensively, so it does syntax-folding and "code templates" and so forth for me. Pretty productive. | Sep 06 19:21 |
| Balrog_ | yeah; though with emacs you can do stuff like compile / run within the editor (separate window) | Sep 06 19:21 |
| Balrog_ | among other things | Sep 06 19:21 |
| trmanco | you can actually do everthing with it | Sep 06 19:22 |
| trmanco | everything* | Sep 06 19:22 |
| __c | trmanco: ;) there's a rumour that the Hurd isn't dead -- it's what emacs is evolving towards ;) | Sep 06 19:22 |
| Balrog_ | __c: have you heard about LLVM and Clang? | Sep 06 19:23 |
| Balrog_ | the *BSD people (and Apple) are hoping to replace GCC with it | Sep 06 19:24 |
| Balrog_ | at least for C and (in the future) C++ | Sep 06 19:24 |
| __c | Balrog_: I've heard of the project, but not remembered the name for it. I don't know much about it. | Sep 06 19:24 |
| Balrog_ | it's gone pretty far. And it has a static analyzer for C code that 's said to be quite good | Sep 06 19:25 |
| __c | I can't really see the point. GCC is really, really good. On c.l.c it's almost at the status of reference compiler. | Sep 06 19:25 |
| Balrog_ | (Apple's developer tools are compiled with it) | Sep 06 19:25 |
| __c | Well, more choice is better, they say. I'm reading up on it now, and I can appreciate the awesomeness of having Clang designed as an API. It'd be great to have something embeddable. | Sep 06 19:27 |
| Balrog_ | (it's probably not going to have the same power as GCC when it comes to language / platform support though) | Sep 06 19:28 |
| Balrog_ | yes, that's very nice. Students get frustrated with errors like "wrong lvalue" and such | Sep 06 19:28 |
| __c | *heh*. I remember tutoring in University; I used to have to stop panicked students from despairing when their C++ code threw compile errors. It was generally something like a missing ">" which spewed about 20 different warnings ;). Those were the days ... | Sep 06 19:31 |
| Balrog_ | lol | Sep 06 19:32 |
| trmanco | __c: yes that might be true | Sep 06 19:39 |
| Balrog_ | trmanco: still happens | Sep 06 19:39 |
| Balrog_ | I work in the university CIS department and sometimes help students | Sep 06 19:40 |
| *tacone has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Sep 06 19:44 | |
| http://slashdot.org/submission/1067713/Beyond-Trust-Warns-that-UAC-is-Still-Broken | Sep 06 19:45 | |
| my favorite error is the "Windows won't boot [print] [connect to a network] [use USB ports] [and so on and so forth]" two weeks before final exams and one week before papers are due. | Sep 06 19:48 | |
| talk about panic | Sep 06 19:48 | |
| schestowitz | It has already taken over 3 hours to partition *Sigh* | Sep 06 19:54 |
| schestowitz | I'll need to work from a live cd shortly | Sep 06 19:55 |
| cubezzz | I'm seeing conflicting info on which OS is the most secure | Sep 06 20:07 |
| cubezzz | some even say windows is the most secure, and some say Linux and some say Mac | Sep 06 20:08 |
| cubezzz | anyway, I can only speak about windows and Linux | Sep 06 20:08 |
| Balrog_ | cubezzz: Mac is rather secure, though it had some issues with 10.5 and 10.6 hasn't been well tested yet | Sep 06 20:10 |
| cubezzz | yeah, I remember reading something about "Pwn to Own" about Mac | Sep 06 20:12 |
| schestowitz | YThere's also monoculture | Sep 06 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Apple is another case of identical systems all over the place | Sep 06 20:13 |
| schestowitz | So you can do overflows easily | Sep 06 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Even identical hardware in some place | Sep 06 20:13 |
| cubezzz | all I can really say from my own experience is Linux is generally more secure than windows | Sep 06 20:14 |
| MinceR | crApple also lags badly with security updates | Sep 06 20:14 |
| cubezzz | and XP was slower than Fedora on identical hardware | Sep 06 20:14 |
| MinceR | and windblows is just a horrible, horrible mess | Sep 06 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Slower in development too | Sep 06 20:15 |
| cubezzz | MinceR, I'm doing a windows fixing job and I had to use Linux to read this computer's NTFS partition, windows couldn't read it :) | Sep 06 20:15 |
| MinceR | :) | Sep 06 20:15 |
| cubezzz | FC1 couldn't either, too old I guess | Sep 06 20:16 |
| cubezzz | kind of surprised that Linux isn't a larger percentage on the desktop actually | Sep 06 20:17 |
| cubezzz | people seem to really be locked-in to windows | Sep 06 20:17 |
| schestowitz | W00t | Sep 06 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Completed | Sep 06 20:18 |
| _Hicham_ | because Windows is the way to go | Sep 06 20:19 |
| cubezzz | _Hicham_, we'll have to disagree on that :) | Sep 06 20:19 |
| schestowitz | bbl. live cd... | Sep 06 20:19 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is finally upgrading | Sep 06 20:20 |
| _Hicham_ | cubezzz : don't u have newer versions of linux ? | Sep 06 20:20 |
| _Hicham_ | FC1 was released in 2003 | Sep 06 20:20 |
| Balrog_ | Knoppix 5.x? | Sep 06 20:20 |
| cubezzz | _Hicham_, yes, just the server box is old | Sep 06 20:20 |
| cubezzz | yes, I know :) | Sep 06 20:20 |
| cubezzz | I have Fedora 10 on the other boxes | Sep 06 20:21 |
| _Hicham_ | desktop boxes ? | Sep 06 20:21 |
| cubezzz | one desktop, one laptop | Sep 06 20:21 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora 10 is great | Sep 06 20:23 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora 11 rocks | Sep 06 20:23 |
| _Hicham_ | Fedora 12 Alpha is still very unstable | Sep 06 20:23 |
| _Hicham_ | coz anaconda is having a major rewrite | Sep 06 20:24 |
| *schestowitz has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) | Sep 06 20:28 | |
| _Hicham_ | Windows 8 will be probably based on Linux kernel | Sep 06 20:29 |
| trmanco | in you dreams | Sep 06 20:30 |
| trmanco | your* | Sep 06 20:30 |
| Balrog_ | _Hicham_: BSD is more plausible; though still it's not going to happen :) | Sep 06 20:31 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : don't worry, I will buy MS | Sep 06 20:31 |
| _Hicham_ | me schestowitz are saving up some money | Sep 06 20:31 |
| _Hicham_ | *me and | Sep 06 20:32 |
| trmanco | when they reach a stock price of a $1 | Sep 06 20:33 |
| trmanco | maybe you will have some luck | Sep 06 20:33 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : u will be a share holder | Sep 06 20:33 |
| trmanco | I don't want to be a part of a company like that | Sep 06 20:34 |
| Balrog_ | trmanco: major restructuring :) | Sep 06 20:34 |
| trmanco | :) | Sep 06 20:37 |
| *schestowitz (i=8258be83@gateway/web/freenode/x-sjdqbmhtkohsvcwp) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 06 20:38 | |
| schestowitz | Gparted is a gem | Sep 06 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Worked smoothly and quickly | Sep 06 20:44 |
| schestowitz | No fuss, no muss | Sep 06 20:44 |
| schestowitz | I'm moving back 64GB of personal files from Mandriva now | Sep 06 20:45 |
| :) | Sep 06 20:47 | |
| schestowitz | It's Debian based | Sep 06 20:48 |
| schestowitz | I didn't know that | Sep 06 20:48 |
| schestowitz | Starts with cli asking if you want GUI | Sep 06 20:48 |
| schestowitz | Supports like 25 languages | Sep 06 20:48 |
| schestowitz | *35 | Sep 06 20:48 |
| schestowitz | and then enters fluxbox | Sep 06 20:48 |
| schestowitz | :-) Yum! | Sep 06 20:48 |
| kubuntu? Yes, that is debian based | Sep 06 20:48 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: no, gparted | Sep 06 20:48 |
| schestowitz | It's a good tool for the blt | Sep 06 20:48 |
| and Debian has all sorts of language support | Sep 06 20:48 | |
| oh. | Sep 06 20:49 | |
| schestowitz | I needed to change size of main partition | Sep 06 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Must be done 'from the outside' | Sep 06 20:49 |
| schestowitz | SO live CD | Sep 06 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, now I'm migrating some more data. This can take a night | Sep 06 20:49 |
| I tend to copy and move things around less than I tend to mount and symlink | Sep 06 20:49 | |
| schestowitz | I also need to chown -r roy * | Sep 06 20:50 |
| grsync is nice for copy | Sep 06 20:50 | |
| schestowitz | I had to access other partition as root | Sep 06 20:50 |
| schestowitz | Same with external HDDs (ext3) | Sep 06 20:50 |
| you should not have | Sep 06 20:50 | |
| schestowitz | Linux is stubborn with ownership -- a notion that Windows seems to lack afaik | Sep 06 20:50 |
| permissions should come along with rsync | Sep 06 20:50 | |
| also ownership | Sep 06 20:51 | |
| mounting with konqueror just works | Sep 06 20:51 | |
| schestowitz | Yes, but this is different | Sep 06 20:51 |
| schestowitz | I have about 8 partitions | Sep 06 20:51 |
| should work for that too | Sep 06 20:51 | |
| schestowitz | Some of them have ownership assigned to others | Sep 06 20:51 |
| schestowitz | Not "roy" | Sep 06 20:51 |
| schestowitz | So I need to access these as root and reclaim them | Sep 06 20:51 |
| roy is user 001? | Sep 06 20:51 | |
| schestowitz | Maybe | Sep 06 20:51 |
| *PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Sep 06 20:52 | |
| I suppose chown and chgrp will fix you then | Sep 06 20:52 | |
| schestowitz | Yeah, recursive | Sep 06 20:52 |
| schestowitz | I assume it would be safe to make all files in home dir mine | Sep 06 20:52 |
| schestowitz | There's no reason for any to ever belong to root | Sep 06 20:52 |
| does gparted have konq? | Sep 06 20:53 | |
| schestowitz | People should sell KDE4 boxes out there | Sep 06 20:53 |
| schestowitz | Preinstalled | Sep 06 20:53 |
| schestowitz | It's a fantastic system | Sep 06 20:53 |
| schestowitz | ALso good with RAM | Sep 06 20:53 |
| it should be able to mount | Sep 06 20:53 | |
| _Hicham_ | twitter the MS shill | Sep 06 20:53 |
| does 4.3 have a system:/ kio yet? | Sep 06 20:53 | |
| _Hicham_ the irrelevant | Sep 06 20:54 | |
| _Hicham_ | twitter was seen last time week in Redmond taking a beer with Balmer | Sep 06 20:54 |
| schestowitz | memory use doesn't pass 400mb | Sep 06 20:54 |
| schestowitz | for now | Sep 06 20:54 |
| schestowitz | I have 2gb+10gb swap | Sep 06 20:54 |
| _Hicham_ | 400MB is too much schestowitz | Sep 06 20:55 |
| that's interesting. | Sep 06 20:55 | |
| 10 gb swap is huge, why so big? | Sep 06 20:55 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: takes me to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System | Sep 06 20:55 |
| _Hicham_ | so twitter is planning to destroy Linux, together with Ballmer | Sep 06 20:56 |
| schestowitz | fish:// works | Sep 06 20:56 |
| schestowitz | But I haven't imported me keys yet | Sep 06 20:56 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : no more Matlab programs from u ? | Sep 06 20:56 |
| trmanco | fish? | Sep 06 20:56 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: no, sorry | Sep 06 20:57 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: scp/ssh | Sep 06 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Ovr GUI in KDE | Sep 06 20:57 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: you must try it | Sep 06 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Have you any SSH access to anywhere? | Sep 06 20:57 |
| trmanco | nop | Sep 06 20:57 |
| the kio, system:/ used to lead to mounting and other goodies | Sep 06 20:57 | |
| it was very nice in earlier versions of kde | Sep 06 20:58 | |
| schestowitz | OK, well, if you do, then you can access that machine like you do withn ftp/sftp | Sep 06 20:58 |
| schestowitz | In Konqueror | Sep 06 20:58 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Dolphin too | Sep 06 20:58 |
| I'm going to look up what the replacement is. I'm sure there is one. | Sep 06 20:58 | |
| schestowitz | Browsing directories and files over SSH and then using KIO to save files for you on the fly.it's amazing | Sep 06 20:58 |
| schestowitz | Been there since early kde3 (2003ish) | Sep 06 20:59 |
| trmanco | kde 4 has kio | Sep 06 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Thign that kde changed make a lot of sense | Sep 06 20:59 |
| schestowitz | I LOVE filderview | Sep 06 20:59 |
| schestowitz | It's looks nice and easy to grasp | Sep 06 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Weird when you assume your desktop ain't a directory | Sep 06 20:59 |
| schestowitz | I can now 'mount' BN server as a filderview on my desktop :-) | Sep 06 21:00 |
| schestowitz | roy@roy:~/.kde$ cd share/apps/ roy@roy:~/.kde/share/apps$ ls amarok kaffeine khtml ksysguard RecentDocuments desktoptheme kate kicker kwallet remoteview dolphin kconf_update klipper nepomuk k3b kcookiejar konqueror networkmanagement kabc kfileplaces konsole nsplugins roy@roy:~/.kde/share/apps$ | Sep 06 21:00 |
| schestowitz | Still same as before | Sep 06 21:00 |
| schestowitz | Consistent | Sep 06 21:01 |
| _Hicham_ | Konqueror is great | Sep 06 21:01 |
| schestowitz | I'm gonan write a kde4 post | Sep 06 21:01 |
| trmanco | khtml is not so great | Sep 06 21:01 |
| found kde kiosk, very interesting user lock down tool http://techbase.kde.org/KDE_System_Administration/Kiosk/Introduction | Sep 06 21:01 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: webkit is an option now | Sep 06 21:01 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : khtml is the foundation of webkit | Sep 06 21:01 |
| schestowitz | Kiosk is old news | Sep 06 21:02 |
| trmanco | I know | Sep 06 21:02 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I bet MinceR doesn't like webkit | Sep 06 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Brazil might find it handy | Sep 06 21:02 |
| trmanco | but it's not as good as | Sep 06 21:02 |
| schestowitz | 52 million kids to use kde 4 !! | Sep 06 21:02 |
| schestowitz | They'll groan at VIsta's sight | Sep 06 21:02 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: it's still khtml, isn't it? :> | Sep 06 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Applised | Sep 06 21:02 |
| new news to me .... with people talking about how much UAC sucks, it's nice to see how free software has done the same thing better. | Sep 06 21:02 | |
| schestowitz | There are others, twitter | Sep 06 21:03 |
| schestowitz | Look up 'linux kiosk' or 'cafe' | Sep 06 21:03 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : will u use webkit ? | Sep 06 21:04 |
| MinceR | i might | Sep 06 21:04 |
| MinceR | i think i'll give Iron a try | Sep 06 21:04 |
| trmanco | I tried webkit in konq but the fonts are too small | Sep 06 21:04 |
| _Hicham_ | even though it is Apple MinceR ? | Sep 06 21:04 |
| MinceR | it isn't entirely crApple | Sep 06 21:04 |
| _Hicham_ | konqueror with webkit backend ? | Sep 06 21:05 |
| trmanco | yes | Sep 06 21:05 |
| MinceR | i thought we've discussed it a lot of times | Sep 06 21:05 |
| trmanco | you can actually choose between them | Sep 06 21:05 |
| _Hicham_ | between khtml and webkit | Sep 06 21:05 |
| _Hicham_ | they might add gecko maybe | Sep 06 21:05 |
| trmanco | no need for gecko | Sep 06 21:05 |
| MinceR | gecko would be nice | Sep 06 21:05 |
| MinceR | as an option | Sep 06 21:06 |
| MinceR | in runtime | Sep 06 21:06 |
| ugh, no! schestowitz: There are others, twitter | Sep 06 21:08 | |
| -> The KDE Kiosk is a framework that has been built into KDE since version 3. It allows administrators to create a controlled environment for their users by customizing and locking almost any aspect of the desktop which includes the benign such as setting and fixing the background wallpaper, the functional such as disabling user log outs and access to the print system and the more security conscientious such as disabling access to | Sep 06 21:09 | |
| http://techbase.kde.org/KDE_System_Administration/Kiosk/Introduction | Sep 06 21:09 | |
| It's not a kiosk distribution, it's a framework for micromanaging user desktops. | Sep 06 21:09 | |
| part of KDE. | Sep 06 21:09 | |
| _Hicham_ | and twitter is part of MS Shills community | Sep 06 21:10 |
| When M$ idiots talk about "granularity" show them kde kiosk. | Sep 06 21:11 | |
| _Hicham_ | I really like twitter | Sep 06 21:12 |
| :-* _Hicham_ | Sep 06 21:12 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : u gathered nice people in this channel | Sep 06 21:12 |
| schestowitz | Well, we have *you* | Sep 06 21:13 |
| schestowitz | We have hecklers here, too | Sep 06 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Mutex seems to be here, still | Sep 06 21:13 |
| Balrog_ | MinceR: I'm sure you use CUPS, even though it's owned by Apple ;) | Sep 06 21:13 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR is an old friend of Steve Jobs | Sep 06 21:14 |
| _Hicham_ | he brought him flowers last time he was at the hospital | Sep 06 21:15 |
| trmanco | as longs as it's gpl or lgpl there ain't a problem | Sep 06 21:15 |
| I'm unable to find out about system:/ in kde 4. this place comes up first but it's all troll posts and harassment http://www.kdenews.org/2009/08/04/kde-430-released-caizen | Sep 06 21:15 | |
| Balrog_ | trmanco: or BSDL or such? | Sep 06 21:15 |
| _Hicham_ | what about MPL : Microsoft Public License | Sep 06 21:15 |
| trmanco | yes bsd too | Sep 06 21:15 |
| Balrog_ | _Hicham_: you mean Ms-PL? that's not good :( | Sep 06 21:16 |
| Bill Gates noticed that the internet was a better source of information than his own internal network back in 1995. What did he do? He broke the internet. | Sep 06 21:16 | |
| trmanco | he tried to | Sep 06 21:16 |
| _Hicham_ | I hope that mshtml.dll will be replaced libembedmoz.dll in Windows 8 | Sep 06 21:17 |
| trmanco | lol | Sep 06 21:17 |
| getting closer http://api.kde.org/4.2-api/kdelibs-apidocs/kioslave/html/index.html | Sep 06 21:18 | |
| _Hicham_ | twitter : are u a kde dev ? | Sep 06 21:19 |
| schestowitz | MPL is Mozilla, _Hicham_ | Sep 06 21:19 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: everyone will be one day ;-) | Sep 06 21:19 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz, I know | Sep 06 21:19 |
| schestowitz | It's like today with Windows... | Sep 06 21:19 |
| schestowitz | [tongue in cheek] | Sep 06 21:20 |
| schestowitz | Development jobs will all be Qt (Nokia) and KDE | Sep 06 21:20 |
| schestowitz | Targetting the real thing | Sep 06 21:20 |
| *AlanBell (n=alan@80.68.93.145) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 06 21:20 | |
| schestowitz | Hey, AlanBell | Sep 06 21:20 |
| AlanBell | evening all | Sep 06 21:20 |
| schestowitz | Nice to see you here | Sep 06 21:20 |
| AlanBell | good to see you too | Sep 06 21:20 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : yes, if twitter quit using Windows for a while | Sep 06 21:20 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Sep 06 21:20 |
| AlanBell | have you seen section 2.14.3 of the iso/iec directives by any chance? | Sep 06 21:21 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Sep 06 21:21 |
| _Hicham_ | no, inform us plz | Sep 06 21:21 |
| schestowitz | He should blog it | Sep 06 21:21 |
| schestowitz | Then it's easy to reference | Sep 06 21:21 |
| schestowitz | I'm doing my mini review of kde 4.3 atm | Sep 06 21:21 |
| schestowitz | AlanBell: you shoild look at kde4 for schools | Sep 06 21:21 |
| schestowitz | It has matured to beauty | Sep 06 21:22 |
| AlanBell | 2.14.3 Should it be revealed after publication of a document that licences under patent | Sep 06 21:22 |
| AlanBell | rights, which appear to cover items included in the document, cannot be obtained under | Sep 06 21:22 |
| AlanBell | reasonable and non-discriminatory terms and conditions, the document shall be referred back | Sep 06 21:22 |
| schestowitz | Linus would be foolish not to become a reborn k-man | Sep 06 21:22 |
| AlanBell | to the relevant committee for further consideration. | Sep 06 21:22 |
| schestowitz | AlanBell: is it new? | Sep 06 21:22 |
| schestowitz | OOXML is RAND | Sep 06 21:22 |
| schestowitz | SFLC told em off for it | Sep 06 21:22 |
| AlanBell | I will have a go with Kubuntu Karmic when it is released, I am testing Ubuntu Karmic | Sep 06 21:22 |
| schestowitz | AlanBell: I'm testing Kubuntu karmic | Sep 06 21:23 |
| AlanBell | sure Microsoft's OOXML patents are RAND | Sep 06 21:23 |
| AlanBell | i4i's isn't | Sep 06 21:23 |
| schestowitz | Now, if only something broke, then I could report a bug | Sep 06 21:23 |
| schestowitz | They use beta of grub | Sep 06 21:23 |
| schestowitz | It didn't like my complex mbr too much, but it's no trouble. I could get past it | Sep 06 21:23 |
| MinceR | Balrog_: i used cups even before it was bought by crApple. | Sep 06 21:24 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: stop trolling | Sep 06 21:24 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : thanks for accusing me | Sep 06 21:25 |
| thanks for being you, _Hicham_ | Sep 06 21:26 | |
| be the change you wish to see | Sep 06 21:26 | |
| _Hicham_ | I am not trolling, and I never did | Sep 06 21:27 |
| _Hicham_ | just for you information | Sep 06 21:27 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: well, what are you doing, then? | Sep 06 21:27 |
| _Hicham_ | I am teasing you | Sep 06 21:27 |
| _Hicham_ | that is what i am doing | Sep 06 21:27 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: so you're trolling under a different name, got it | Sep 06 21:28 |
| _Hicham_ | and u shouldn't get on ur nerves | Sep 06 21:28 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: he's joking | Sep 06 21:28 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : go see the definition of trolling | Sep 06 21:28 |
| schestowitz | I find it funny | Sep 06 21:29 |
| schestowitz | And mostly friendly/amicable | Sep 06 21:29 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz knows me | Sep 06 21:29 |
| schestowitz | trolling it would be if he tried to upset | Sep 06 21:29 |
| schestowitz | What he does is a form of satire | Sep 06 21:29 |
| schestowitz | I do that too | Sep 06 21:29 |
| schestowitz | When I say "your buddy Asay" | Sep 06 21:29 |
| schestowitz | Meaning the opposite | Sep 06 21:30 |
| MinceR | that got old quickly | Sep 06 21:30 |
| schestowitz | Yeah :-) | Sep 06 21:30 |
| _Hicham_ | did i ever upset someone in this channel ? | Sep 06 21:30 |
| _Hicham_ | frankly? | Sep 06 21:30 |
| _Hicham_ | who is mad at me ? | Sep 06 21:30 |
| schestowitz | Demon maybe | Sep 06 21:30 |
| _Hicham_ | no, DaemonFC is great | Sep 06 21:30 |
| schestowitz | Cause he wears "USA" labeled shirts and does not like to be criticised | Sep 06 21:30 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: when on the pills, yeah | Sep 06 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | i criticize DaemonFC a lot | Sep 06 21:31 |
| schestowitz | He has not trolled in a few days, which is good | Sep 06 21:31 |
| schestowitz | He also advised me today on distros he tried | Sep 06 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | I even insulted him (may god forgive me) | Sep 06 21:31 |
| MinceR | what is he great for? | Sep 06 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | he is on Mint for the moment | Sep 06 21:31 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: depends on the day | Sep 06 21:31 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : he doesn't get upset | Sep 06 21:31 |
| schestowitz | Today he has been OK | Sep 06 21:32 |
| MinceR | pfft | Sep 06 21:32 |
| MinceR | a rock does that better than him | Sep 06 21:32 |
| schestowitz | A rock does better than iphone, so? | Sep 06 21:32 |
| MinceR | well, except for the touchscreen, yes | Sep 06 21:32 |
| MinceR | but a rock does "not getting upset" better than any person | Sep 06 21:32 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC is good at heart | Sep 06 21:33 |
| _Hicham_ | he is just lonely as schestowitz said | Sep 06 21:33 |
| MinceR | the only good thing about him is the function of pumping blood? | Sep 06 21:33 |
| _Hicham_ | that is why he tries to troll in here | Sep 06 21:33 |
| _Hicham_ | to get some action | Sep 06 21:33 |
| schestowitz | Yes. | Sep 06 21:33 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_ hit the nail on the head | Sep 06 21:33 |
| MinceR | i'd rather not see action at that cost. | Sep 06 21:34 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: get eggs | Sep 06 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Pelt digital eggs | Sep 06 21:34 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : be cool | Sep 06 21:34 |
| MinceR | eggs don't kill, they don't even incapacitate | Sep 06 21:34 |
| schestowitz | They humiliate | Sep 06 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Like glove slap | Sep 06 21:34 |
| MinceR | echo 'Nina Reiser 180133' | md5sum | tr -d cf0-9 | Sep 06 21:35 |
| _Hicham_ | we gonna give Miguel a good slap | Sep 06 21:35 |
| MinceR | he has it coming | Sep 06 21:35 |
| MinceR | eggs don't humiliate nearly as well as glove slaps | Sep 06 21:35 |
| _Hicham_ | or better, we gonna kidnap him | Sep 06 21:36 |
| _Hicham_ | me and schestowitz | Sep 06 21:36 |
| _Hicham_ | and torture him | Sep 06 21:36 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : we gonna find a good way to torture him | Sep 06 21:36 |
| make him a windows user | Sep 06 21:36 | |
| woops, he already is | Sep 06 21:36 | |
| _Hicham_ | he is already a windows user | Sep 06 21:36 |
| _Hicham_ | he develops on windows, and executes on Linux | Sep 06 21:37 |
| _Hicham_ | ah, found it | Sep 06 21:37 |
| _Hicham_ | we gonna make his wife hate mono | Sep 06 21:37 |
| _Hicham_ | so he is gonna be really tortured | Sep 06 21:37 |
| _Hicham_ | and have to choose | Sep 06 21:37 |
| _Hicham_ | mono or her ? | Sep 06 21:37 |
| that sort of makes his work like a ham sandwich from a vegetarian | Sep 06 21:37 | |
| MinceR | how do you plan to make his wife hate mono? | Sep 06 21:38 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: your jokes can be quoted out of context | Sep 06 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Don't do that humour | Sep 06 21:38 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : u know I am not planning ot kidnap him | Sep 06 21:38 |
| *MinceR is tempted to quote individual letters out of context | Sep 06 21:38 | |
| _Hicham_ | he is not worth it | Sep 06 21:38 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: like Dick Cheney Bush | Sep 06 21:39 |
| I wish _Hicham_ would drop most of his "humor", promotion of .Net, time wasting insults and other not so funny chatter | Sep 06 21:39 | |
| MinceR | i second that. | Sep 06 21:39 |
| _Hicham_ | did I ever promote .Net twitter ? | Sep 06 21:39 |
| schestowitz | kde4 and oxygen make me hungry | Sep 06 21:40 |
| schestowitz | I want ice cream :-) | Sep 06 21:40 |
| MinceR | I scream for ice cream, you scream for ice cream, we all scream for ice cream! | Sep 06 21:40 |
| woops, I confused you with some other annoyances._Hicham_: did I ever promote .Net twitter ? | Sep 06 21:41 | |
| _Hicham_ | because I never did promote it | Sep 06 21:41 |
| _Hicham_ | I did wipe Windows out of my Laptop long time ago | Sep 06 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Becuase of the ice cream???/ [plays dumb] | Sep 06 21:43 |
| _Hicham_ | by the way, schestowitz, I didn't have the time to meet Miguel at Marrakech | Sep 06 21:43 |
| schestowitz | That's all right | Sep 06 21:44 |
| schestowitz | I hope he was greeted by a mostly emptry room | Sep 06 21:44 |
| _Hicham_ | I was wanting to, but wasn't on vacation | Sep 06 21:44 |
| schestowitz | "Mono.. Monomonomno..." | Sep 06 21:44 |
| _Hicham_ | work, work, work | Sep 06 21:44 |
| the kde "places" seems to have mount tools.... how M$ like. I much prefer the bookmarkable system:/media way http://images.maketecheasier.com/2009/08/kio-programs.jpg | Sep 06 21:44 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : are u on Kubuntu Karmic right now ? | Sep 06 21:45 |
| schestowitz | Aye | Sep 06 21:45 |
| MinceR | i like the gnome disk mounter applet | Sep 06 21:45 |
| MinceR | except for the incessant crashing | Sep 06 21:45 |
| schestowitz | It feels like... well, KDE | Sep 06 21:45 |
| schestowitz | But to Kubuntu's credit | Sep 06 21:45 |
| schestowitz | THe package manager is as good as Mandriva's | Sep 06 21:45 |
| schestowitz | They have screenshots now | Sep 06 21:45 |
| schestowitz | It's the new K/Ubuntu feature | Sep 06 21:46 |
| _Hicham_ | is it synaptic ? | Sep 06 21:46 |
| schestowitz | And installing nvidia blobs was made simple | Sep 06 21:46 |
| MinceR | it's that shop thing? | Sep 06 21:46 |
| schestowitz | I tried to make the free drivers do dual | Sep 06 21:46 |
| schestowitz | It's not simple in my case | Sep 06 21:46 |
| _Hicham_ | which free drivers ? | Sep 06 21:46 |
| _Hicham_ | nv or nouveau ? | Sep 06 21:46 |
| schestowitz | One CRT, one 24' LCD | Sep 06 21:46 |
| schestowitz | One widescreen, another typical ratio | Sep 06 21:46 |
| schestowitz | The original drivers didn't let me do 3d | Sep 06 21:47 |
| schestowitz | I tried... in KDE | Sep 06 21:47 |
| schestowitz | Not composite | Sep 06 21:47 |
| _Hicham_ | no 3D for nv and nouveau | Sep 06 21:47 |
| _Hicham_ | that is known | Sep 06 21:47 |
| _Hicham_ | radeon do have 3D | Sep 06 21:48 |
| schestowitz | I don't game | Sep 06 21:48 |
| schestowitz | BUIT... | Sep 06 21:48 |
| schestowitz | Wow, it's fast now | Sep 06 21:48 |
| MinceR | some radeons, that is | Sep 06 21:48 |
| schestowitz | FPS-wise | Sep 06 21:48 |
| schestowitz | VERY fact | Sep 06 21:48 |
| schestowitz | Like 2-3 times more frames than before | Sep 06 21:48 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : did u try mandriva x86_64 ? | Sep 06 21:48 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Sep 06 21:48 |
| MinceR | yes, but didn't have a lot of time to play with it | Sep 06 21:48 |
| schestowitz | 64-bit scares me | Sep 06 21:48 |
| schestowitz | Scarcity of some software for 64-bit | Sep 06 21:49 |
| schestowitz | I tried 2 years ag | Sep 06 21:49 |
| schestowitz | *ago | Sep 06 21:49 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva had mhonarc | Sep 06 21:49 |
| MinceR | sadly, only the free version supports that architecture, so i'll have to research the nvidia proprietary driver and codec packages | Sep 06 21:49 |
| schestowitz | Ubuntu doesn't | Sep 06 21:49 |
| schestowitz | Maybe cause it's not final for this release yet | Sep 06 21:49 |
| schestowitz | I need mhonarc | Sep 06 21:49 |
| _Hicham_ | what is mhonarc ? | Sep 06 21:49 |
| MinceR | i don't really have time to play with it at home (it can boot on the only computer i use nowadays) | Sep 06 21:50 |
| schestowitz | Perl program | Sep 06 21:50 |
| schestowitz | Earl | Sep 06 21:50 |
| schestowitz | Earl's Pel | Sep 06 21:50 |
| schestowitz | Perl | Sep 06 21:50 |
| MinceR | and i haven't installed the client for the firewall at my workplace yet | Sep 06 21:50 |
| MinceR | what does mhonarc do? | Sep 06 21:50 |
| schestowitz | Archive mail | Sep 06 21:50 |
| schestowitz | A buddy from Manchester Computing gave it to m | Sep 06 21:50 |
| schestowitz | Back in the days | Sep 06 21:50 |
| schestowitz | He also gave me ubuntu 4.10 | Sep 06 21:51 |
| LOL. Found it. | Sep 06 21:51 | |
| /media/ | Sep 06 21:51 | |
| schestowitz | I used Ubuntu when I worked there | Sep 06 21:51 |
| they got rid of the M$ floppy style notation | Sep 06 21:51 | |
| MinceR | m$ floppy stile notation? | Sep 06 21:51 |
| MinceR | s/til/tyl/ | Sep 06 21:51 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter : didn't know that everything is mounted on /media ? | Sep 06 21:52 |
| schestowitz | M$ floppy style? | Sep 06 21:52 |
| instead of media:/ it's not /media/ | Sep 06 21:52 | |
| schestowitz | A:\>?? | Sep 06 21:52 |
| MinceR | that's not m$ floppy style | Sep 06 21:52 |
| MinceR | media:/ is a kioslave | Sep 06 21:52 |
| schestowitz | True | Sep 06 21:52 |
| kde had a system:/media/ | Sep 06 21:52 | |
| schestowitz | They copied it | Sep 06 21:52 |
| MinceR | (a pointless kioslave, but still a kioslave) | Sep 06 21:52 |
| schestowitz | But Microsoft invented the Internets and ''stuff'' | Sep 06 21:52 |
| MinceR | oh. | Sep 06 21:52 |
| schestowitz | Everuything in computers is Microsoft | Sep 06 21:52 |
| MinceR | so the : in URLs comes from m$? :> | Sep 06 21:52 |
| schestowitz | CTRL+ALT+DEL doesn't come from MS, either | Sep 06 21:53 |
| MinceR | (wait, i was wrong. media:/ by itself isn't pointless at all) | Sep 06 21:53 |
| no, this was a very good slave that let users mount and unmout volumes easily -> MinceR: (a pointless kioslave, but still a kioslave) | Sep 06 21:53 | |
| schestowitz | They popularised a bug tracking Easter egg | Sep 06 21:53 |
| MinceR | (iirc it was system:/ that provided a different namespace for the filesystem) | Sep 06 21:53 |
| MinceR | twitter: i mistook the name. | Sep 06 21:53 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: someone said "i invented it, but bill made it famous" | Sep 06 21:54 |
| "/apt/" is not there, so I might be wrong about this ..... ugh | Sep 06 21:54 | |
| MinceR | on the three-finger salute | Sep 06 21:54 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: precisely | Sep 06 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Need we have the YouTube ref? | Sep 06 21:54 |
| oh well. | Sep 06 21:54 | |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 06 21:54 | |
| kio for youtube? that would be funny. | Sep 06 21:54 | |
| might be useful too. | Sep 06 21:55 | |
| schestowitz | Nope | Sep 06 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Not practical | Sep 06 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Just put in the url | Sep 06 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Unless... | Sep 06 21:55 |
| schestowitz | You want interfaces to fetch as ogg | Sep 06 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Like with CDs you insert | Sep 06 21:55 |
| very practical. it could be hooked up to clive, ripping that ....yes | Sep 06 21:55 | |
| schestowitz | And then can drag and drop as ogg/mp3/other | Sep 06 21:56 |
| now you get it. | Sep 06 21:56 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: OK, fair point, never thought of that | Sep 06 21:56 |
| "social desktop" | Sep 06 21:56 | |
| schestowitz | YouTUbe must have some APIs | Sep 06 21:56 |
| schestowitz | For mashups and beyond | Sep 06 21:56 |
| share better than urls | Sep 06 21:56 | |
| schestowitz | Flickr has some | Sep 06 21:56 |
| schestowitz | You could mount your flickr albums | Sep 06 21:56 |
| MinceR | it should be more general than just youtube | Sep 06 21:56 |
| MinceR | stupidflashvideosharing:/ ? | Sep 06 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Wikipedia too | Sep 06 21:56 |
| this is anther good reason for youtube to get rid of flash | Sep 06 21:57 | |
| schestowitz | They could embed ads | Sep 06 21:57 |
| being dependent on flash is very limiting | Sep 06 21:57 | |
| schestowitz | And then see people pass around the files in intranets, saving them bandwidth | Sep 06 21:57 |
| but I'm having problems finding all my favorite kio slaves. does apt:/ show up in 4.3? | Sep 06 21:58 | |
| schestowitz | Havn't checked yet | Sep 06 21:58 |
| schestowitz | I never use it | Sep 06 21:58 |
| MinceR | is there media:/ in kde4? | Sep 06 21:58 |
| schestowitz | I recently saw a summary of theses | Sep 06 21:58 |
| schestowitz | *These | Sep 06 21:58 |
| schestowitz | They all ought to be supported, eventually, I reckon | Sep 06 21:58 |
| no media:/ that I can find, MinceR | Sep 06 21:58 | |
| MinceR | also, have they fixed the search function in dolphin/konqueror already? | Sep 06 21:59 |
| I have kio-apt installed, for example, but it does not show up in 4.2. | Sep 06 21:59 | |
| dolphin is nice but I find myself trying to make it look like konqueror. | Sep 06 22:00 | |
| schestowitz | use konq | Sep 06 22:00 |
| schestowitz | I put it in my panel | Sep 06 22:00 |
| schestowitz | And CTRL+ALT+H | Sep 06 22:00 |
| right | Sep 06 22:00 | |
| schestowitz | With xbindkeys | Sep 06 22:00 |
| true, quick and dirty OS used what everyone else did, but M$ applied it to things like network shares, and the result is a confusing and broken mess that people should abandon. -> schestowitz: They copied it [A:\] | Sep 06 22:03 | |
| bookmarks and urls are better ways of organizing resources than a system that organized two floppy drives 30 years ago. | Sep 06 22:03 | |
| sftp://homebox/ is not part of "my computer" | Sep 06 22:03 | |
| *schestowitz chowning 65 gb of files | Sep 06 22:07 | |
| schestowitz | It's all starting to regroup now | Sep 06 22:08 |
| schestowitz | I hope to make posts tonight | Sep 06 22:08 |
| :) | Sep 06 22:09 | |
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| schestowitz | brb | Sep 06 22:15 |
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| *hicham is now known as _Hicham_ | Sep 06 22:36 | |
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| oiaohm | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzUxNA Hmm this is getting a trend ATI drivers released first in Ubuntu | Sep 06 22:39 |
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| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Sep 06 22:54 | |
| schestowitz | OK, now xchat looks different | Sep 06 22:55 |
| schestowitz | It's a very gnomy version of it | Sep 06 22:55 |
| _Hicham_ | how is that? | Sep 06 22:55 |
| _Hicham_ | of course | Sep 06 22:55 |
| _Hicham_ | it is Ubuntu | Sep 06 22:55 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu is gnomish | Sep 06 22:55 |
| schestowitz | And it doesn't have users list visible | Sep 06 22:56 |
| schestowitz | It's like a simplified version | Sep 06 22:56 |
| _Hicham_ | u can make it visible | Sep 06 22:57 |
| _Hicham_ | just the default options | Sep 06 22:57 |
| schestowitz | I can't find the option | Sep 06 22:57 |
| schestowitz | There are few options | Sep 06 22:57 |
| schestowitz | It looks more modern a version | Sep 06 22:57 |
| schestowitz | But some things changed | Sep 06 22:57 |
| schestowitz | Oddly | Sep 06 22:57 |
| ziggyfish_ | schestowitz, looks the same as before ;) | Sep 06 22:57 |
| schestowitz | I see..... | Sep 06 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Some options moved positions | Sep 06 22:58 |
| schestowitz | Like "mark as away" | Sep 06 22:58 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe it is a development version | Sep 06 22:59 |
| _Hicham_ | but no, ubuntu doesn't ship develpment versions | Sep 06 22:59 |
| schestowitz | I don't think so | Sep 06 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Things like detach window vanished | Sep 06 22:59 |
| schestowitz | And there's no 'advanced' version | Sep 06 23:00 |
| schestowitz | No GUI for banlist | Sep 06 23:00 |
| schestowitz | XChat-GNOME 0.26.1 | Sep 06 23:00 |
| schestowitz | That's old, no? | Sep 06 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Copyright © 2004-200 | Sep 06 23:00 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe u should give kopete a try | Sep 06 23:01 |
| schestowitz | brb | Sep 06 23:04 |
| *schestowitz has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Sep 06 23:04 | |
| *schestowitz () has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 06 23:04 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz the tester | Sep 06 23:04 |
| schestowitz | OK, I got it | Sep 06 23:05 |
| schestowitz | There are two versions | Sep 06 23:05 |
| schestowitz | Both got installed | Sep 06 23:05 |
| schestowitz | gnome-chat is the simpler | Sep 06 23:05 |
| schestowitz | Now I'm on the 'full edition' so to speak | Sep 06 23:05 |
| _Hicham_ | xchat-schestowitz : the ultimate version for chatting on irc | Sep 06 23:06 |
| _Hicham_ | unlimited views | Sep 06 23:06 |
| _Hicham_ | unlimited channel | Sep 06 23:06 |
| _Hicham_ | get it today for only $59.99 ! | Sep 06 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Where does skype store user settings? | Sep 06 23:07 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Sep 06 23:08 | |
| schestowitz | We need an op | Sep 06 23:08 |
| schestowitz | I'm gonna be busy organising | Sep 06 23:08 |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to _Hicham_ | Sep 06 23:08 | |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Sep 06 23:08 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : .skype for sure | Sep 06 23:09 |
| _Hicham_ | on ur home directory | Sep 06 23:09 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I tried | Sep 06 23:10 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : didn't find it? | Sep 06 23:10 |
| schestowitz | Let's see | Sep 06 23:10 |
| schestowitz | Couldn't find it before | Sep 06 23:11 |
| schestowitz | I need to test the vid/webcam | Sep 06 23:11 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* | Sep 06 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Skype capitalise it | Sep 06 23:11 |
| _Hicham_ | why do u need the settings forlder for ? | Sep 06 23:11 |
| schestowitz | It's .Skype, not .skype | Sep 06 23:11 |
| schestowitz | It's against the unix philosophy | Sep 06 23:11 |
| schestowitz | That's why I couldn't find it | Sep 06 23:11 |
| _Hicham_ | u got ur webcam working schestowitz ? | Sep 06 23:13 |
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