| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft 'indoctrinates' Best Buy workers with anti-Linux 'lies': http://is.gd/30tgh || Desperate hun? | Sep 08 00:01 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] MAFIAA Wants Everyone to Pay for Intellectual Monopolies Violations http://ping.fm/t8IC7 | Sep 08 00:01 | |
| twitter1 | -> Why would anyone buy a larger processor that also consumes more power? .... the Diamondville parts are clearly more affordable. In addition, the new Atoms are the clear choice for anyone who wants to run Windows Vista. | Sep 08 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| twitter1 | Intel lives in backwards world, where bigger chips are cheaper. | Sep 08 00:02 |
| twitter1 | These kinds of things only happen in a monopoly market. The sooner ARM and MIPS are used to break that monopoly, the better. | Sep 08 00:02 |
| MinceR | btw, where did Transmeta go? | Sep 08 00:04 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista a Lot of Money Down the Drain (Vista 7 to be the Same) http://ping.fm/jb4g4 | Sep 08 00:13 | |
| schestowitz | MinceR: bankruptcy | Sep 08 00:16 |
| schestowitz | The Microsoft troll bought their patents | Sep 08 00:16 |
| MinceR | :/ | Sep 08 00:16 |
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| twitter1 | Yuhong Boa, is that the paid M$ astroturfer? | Sep 08 00:53 |
| twitter1 | He's filled up the comment section with himself. | Sep 08 00:53 |
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| twitter1 | what kind of Vile BS is this? -> once Vista had settled down over the course of the first year or 18 months, it turned out to be a respectable operating system; certainly fit for purpose, and potentially offering some significant benefits, especially from an operations and risk management perspective in larger enterprises. | Sep 08 00:55 |
| twitter1 | What kind of "perspective" would show any version of Windows to be low risk or operational? Nuts. | Sep 08 00:56 |
| twitter1 | The article claims that renaming it "Windows" again will fix things, " a tactic that seems to have paid off." Oh yeah, before sale 1, it's a big success. Not. | Sep 08 00:57 |
| twitter1 | total troll! -> commitment and sentiment associated with Microsoft Exchange is overwhelmingly positive | Sep 08 00:59 |
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| twitter1 | No, I see that Boa is not the same person, just busy. | Sep 08 01:06 |
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| *schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BCNuVG9bSo&feature=related | Sep 08 01:27 | |
| schestowitz | There will hopefully be "Cosmos 2" some day... with newer facts being presented to boorish folks that promote superstition. | Sep 08 01:27 |
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| twitter1 | Cosmos, the Biblical Literal Version. -> http://blog.au.org/2009/07/02/confusion-museum-kentuckys-creationist-facility-is-unhappy-revelation-to-scientists/ | Sep 08 01:54 |
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| twitter1 | ugh, H-online digital restrictions propaganda -> if you accept that the creators of a digital work should have their copyrights protected, then the concept of DRM is not inherently a bad thing | Sep 08 03:40 |
| twitter1 | if you accept that home owners should have their houses protected, then it's not an inherently bad thing if homeowners are allowed to shoot anyone in their home. | Sep 08 03:41 |
| twitter1 | acceptance of copyright is not an acceptance of digital restrictions. | Sep 08 03:42 |
| twitter1 | nor is it an acceptance of non free software | Sep 08 03:42 |
| twitter1 | nor does it call for the destruction of xerox machines ... | Sep 08 03:43 |
| _Hicham_ | I have produced some drm enabled songs | Sep 08 03:48 |
| _Hicham_ | to help me protect them | Sep 08 03:49 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a mechanism that i have created for ogg format | Sep 08 03:49 |
| _Hicham_ | and implemented it with some chinese hardware maker | Sep 08 03:49 |
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| _Hicham_ | I think that schestowitz has left | Sep 08 03:51 |
| bethlynn | hi folks | Sep 08 03:56 |
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| twitter1 | I will help you protect your songs, _Hicham_, by not listening to them. | Sep 08 04:11 |
| twitter1 | I | Sep 08 04:12 |
| twitter1 | I'm not interested in restricted music. | Sep 08 04:12 |
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| _Hicham_ | Mr DaemonFC | Sep 08 04:15 |
| _Hicham_ | howdy ? | Sep 08 04:15 |
| DaemonFC | evening | Sep 08 04:15 |
| _Hicham_ | is it possible to have drm with ogg ? | Sep 08 04:15 |
| DaemonFC | not the container | Sep 08 04:17 |
| DaemonFC | it would be possible to DRM Vorbis though | Sep 08 04:17 |
| DaemonFC | you'd have to make a new container format that could hold a Vorbis stream, there's no reason why the container couldn't support encryption and a license scheme | Sep 08 04:18 |
| DaemonFC | why you would, I have no idea | Sep 08 04:19 |
| DaemonFC | if you want to DRM something, WM-DRM is already there | Sep 08 04:19 |
| DaemonFC | chances are you don't care if it works on Mac or Linux anyway, right? | Sep 08 04:19 |
| _Hicham_ | well I do | Sep 08 04:19 |
| _Hicham_ | I want sthg that works on Linux | Sep 08 04:20 |
| DaemonFC | the term DRM has become so universally hated that even Microsoft hesitates to use it anymore | Sep 08 04:20 |
| DaemonFC | they use more backwards terms that make it sound like something you want | Sep 08 04:20 |
| DaemonFC | "PlaysForSure" or "PlayReady" must be good, right? | Sep 08 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Sep 08 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | fixing the PR problem by renaming what people don't like | Sep 08 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | it works with Windows, why not Windows Media DRM? | Sep 08 04:21 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft is taking a stab at misdirection | Sep 08 04:22 |
| DaemonFC | it's like "Office Open XML" | Sep 08 04:22 |
| DaemonFC | It's "open" and it's "XML", what could be wrong with it? :) | Sep 08 04:23 |
| _Hicham_ | it is sorta porting MS technology to linux | Sep 08 04:23 |
| DaemonFC | of course "PlayReady" can't be DRM if it "enhances your experience" of "protected" media | Sep 08 04:23 |
| DaemonFC | right? | Sep 08 04:23 |
| _Hicham_ | so that music producers can put their work on linux | Sep 08 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | I mean shit, they could only get better with a free bag of chips | Sep 08 04:24 |
| _Hicham_ | musicians have the right to protect their music, no ? | Sep 08 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | musicians need to figure out that DRM is asking their customers not to buy it, and adding a "pretty please" at the end | Sep 08 04:25 |
| _Hicham_ | so what is the solution to piracy in ur opinion | Sep 08 04:26 |
| DaemonFC | I've already said it before, there isn't one | Sep 08 04:28 |
| DaemonFC | but if you get shot in the foot, do you shoot your other foot so it matches? | Sep 08 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | that's what DRM is | Sep 08 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | DRM encourages piracy because it removes any incentive the user had to do the right thing | Sep 08 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | and in fact punishes them for paying you | Sep 08 04:29 |
| DaemonFC | I don't see anything wrong with cracking or using unlicensed copies of any program or music or video or whatever that uses DRM, or "product activation" | Sep 08 04:30 |
| DaemonFC | they've made a decision that shouldn't ever have to be tolerated by any paying customer | Sep 08 04:30 |
| _Hicham_ | so they should give their music like that ? | Sep 08 04:31 |
| _Hicham_ | without any protection ? | Sep 08 04:31 |
| DaemonFC | there is no such thing as "protection" of computer data | Sep 08 04:31 |
| DaemonFC | there has never been any such thing | Sep 08 04:31 |
| DaemonFC | software has been cracked for the last 30 years despite every "copy protection" scheme they've ever used | Sep 08 04:32 |
| DaemonFC | it's time to admit that they're just pissing off the people who would otherwise have paid but sought out alternatives to buying a crippled product that could arbitrarily refuse to work as advertised | Sep 08 04:33 |
| DaemonFC | maybe that's using different software, maybe it's cracking the "protected" program | Sep 08 04:33 |
| DaemonFC | but they're still not being paid either way | Sep 08 04:33 |
| DaemonFC | they motivate people to not pay them | Sep 08 04:33 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think there is a right way to "protect" your program through restrictions | Sep 08 04:34 |
| DaemonFC | there's other ways of hacking at the problem | Sep 08 04:34 |
| DaemonFC | adding value to the product for paying customers would be a better way to protect the program | Sep 08 04:35 |
| twitter1 | just publish music -> _Hicham_: so that music producers can put their work on linux | Sep 08 04:35 |
| DaemonFC | you can add value by lowering the price to a perceived "fair value", you can add value by providing support at no extra charge if they register it and send in proof of purchase | Sep 08 04:36 |
| DaemonFC | you can add value by listening to your users and implementing what they ask for | Sep 08 04:37 |
| _Hicham_ | but product activation is used worldwide | Sep 08 04:37 |
| _Hicham_ | though it is crackable | Sep 08 04:37 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft hasn't done any of that and instead have gone off towards more DRM | Sep 08 04:37 |
| twitter1 | murder on the high seas is punished with harsh jail terms and fines, almost as bad as sharing music and videos or making a public library. The problem is equating the two -> _Hicham_: so what is the solution to piracy in ur opinion | Sep 08 04:37 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 7 is already cracked and it's not even for sale yet | Sep 08 04:37 |
| _Hicham_ | is there any keygen for RHEL ? | Sep 08 04:37 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, No | Sep 08 04:38 |
| twitter1 | there are many key generators | Sep 08 04:38 |
| DaemonFC | Red Hat knows what serials they've issued and they know about how many system's it's licensed for | Sep 08 04:38 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 : are u sure ? | Sep 08 04:38 |
| twitter1 | oh, you guys are talking about a different kind of key. | Sep 08 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | if they sell a license for 1,000 systems and suddenly there's 100,000 using that serial from 100,000 different IPs, they blacklist the serial | Sep 08 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | and disable your updates | Sep 08 04:39 |
| twitter1 | gpg makes keys that I'm talking about. | Sep 08 04:39 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : like Kaspersky does ? | Sep 08 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | the number has to be significantly higher than the number of systems they licensed it for before they do anything about it | Sep 08 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, RHEL serials work like Microsoft Volume License Keys did on Win2k/XP | Sep 08 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | well, about like it did anyway | Sep 08 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft blacklisted the VLK if they saw many more systems than they licensed using the same key | Sep 08 04:40 |
| _Hicham_ | I was never blacklisted by Microsoft | Sep 08 04:41 |
| _Hicham_ | though we are using the same key in Morocco | Sep 08 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | well, they usually blacklist them at certain service pack levels | Sep 08 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | they do Vista blacklists through rolling WGA updates though | Sep 08 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | each XP service pack has a lsit of VLKs it will refuse to install on | Sep 08 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | and companies they were issued to typically investigate and fire whoever leaked theirs if they find them | Sep 08 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft obviously isn't very concerned with who takes XP anymore | Sep 08 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | it's too old to run effectively on newer equipment | Sep 08 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | they could do more to shut down unlicensed users if they gave a shit | Sep 08 04:43 |
| _Hicham_ | newer equipment does not provide drivers for XP | Sep 08 04:43 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, in most cases, you can get hardware to work without XP drivers | Sep 08 04:44 |
| _Hicham_ | how ? | Sep 08 04:44 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 98 through 7 use the same driver architecture for everything except video cards | Sep 08 04:45 |
| _Hicham_ | I tried to make a sony vaio ( not very recent ) with XP, but no luck | Sep 08 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | it's usually possible to use a Windows Vista driver on XP | Sep 08 04:45 |
| _Hicham_ | except for video cards | Sep 08 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | those use WDDM | Sep 08 04:45 |
| _Hicham_ | and maybe sound | Sep 08 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | other drivers use WDM | Sep 08 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | Vista can use WDM video drivers but you won't get DirectX 10 support | Sep 08 04:45 |
| _Hicham_ | Video card is very important | Sep 08 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | and you can't watch Blu Ray discs | Sep 08 04:46 |
| _Hicham_ | can u bear a resolution of 800x600 on a new laptop ? | Sep 08 04:46 |
| _Hicham_ | in vesa mode ? | Sep 08 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | I use 1680 x 1050 on my desktop | Sep 08 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | and 1280 x 1024 on my laptop | Sep 08 04:46 |
| _Hicham_ | well, like that, people are forced to use Vista | Sep 08 04:48 |
| _Hicham_ | same thing will be with Windows 7 | Sep 08 04:48 |
| _Hicham_ | thanks to god that there is Linux | Sep 08 04:51 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : is Mint more responsive than Ubuntu ? | Sep 08 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | it essentially *is* Ubuntu | Sep 08 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | the GUI layout is better, the colors are different, and codecs and libdvdcss are part of the default install | Sep 08 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | that's mostly the changes | Sep 08 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | they have a differen't add/remove programs widget though, I like it | Sep 08 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | gives you screenshots of the program you're looking at, and user reviews | Sep 08 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | *different | Sep 08 04:58 |
| _Hicham_ | a screenshot ? | Sep 08 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, thumbnail image | Sep 08 04:58 |
| _Hicham_ | i mean can u do one of ur screenshots showing the tool ? | Sep 08 04:59 |
| _Hicham_ | the screenshots are hosted on debian.net | Sep 08 04:59 |
| _Hicham_ | u might send ur screenshots | Sep 08 04:59 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, They're stored by the Linux Mint "software library" | Sep 08 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | they have a deal kind of like Linspire's Click 'n Run where you can click on ".mint" packages on their website and it will install the program through your apt repository | Sep 08 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | the MintInstall program is basically just a frontend to that site | Sep 08 05:02 |
| _Hicham_ | like openSUSE oneclick install | Sep 08 05:02 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Sep 08 05:02 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't like that | Sep 08 05:02 |
| DaemonFC | you don't have to use it | Sep 08 05:02 |
| DaemonFC | Synaptic is there | Sep 08 05:02 |
| _Hicham_ | that what makes package managers so long to load | Sep 08 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | they haven't done anything funky like that | Sep 08 05:03 |
| _Hicham_ | look at yast | Sep 08 05:03 |
| _Hicham_ | after a few one-click installs | Sep 08 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | mint files are just added through their custom Add/Remove program tool | Sep 08 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | it's not a part of Synaptic | Sep 08 05:03 |
| _Hicham_ | Synaptic is just a front-end to apt | Sep 08 05:03 |
| DaemonFC | mint files just tell their tool what to ask apt to install | Sep 08 05:04 |
| DaemonFC | it's nothing slow or bloated | Sep 08 05:04 |
| _Hicham_ | so this doesn't add a repo ? | Sep 08 05:08 |
| DaemonFC | no | Sep 08 05:10 |
| DaemonFC | ouch | Sep 08 05:12 |
| DaemonFC | Epiphany Webkit died and left a 48.5 MB crash dump | Sep 08 05:12 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Sep 08 05:12 |
| Omar871 | _Hicham_: حيا الله أخوي هشام. | Sep 08 05:13 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] تلحس بعضك يا سميح طوقان. تلحس بعضك بكل ما في الكلمة من معنى. | Sep 08 05:13 | |
| Omar871 | _Hicham_: Do you know any Django developers? | Sep 08 05:15 |
| _Hicham_ | Omar871: مرحبا بأخينا و حبينا عمر | Sep 08 05:15 |
| _Hicham_ | كيف الحال؟ | Sep 08 05:15 |
| _Hicham_ | لا للأسف | Sep 08 05:16 |
| Omar871 | _Hicham_: الحمد لله تمام بارك الله فيك. | Sep 08 05:16 |
| _Hicham_ | هل تريد المشاركة في هذا المشروع؟ | Sep 08 05:16 |
| Omar871 | _Hicham_: مشروع؟ | Sep 08 05:16 |
| _Hicham_ | Django | Sep 08 05:16 |
| Omar871 | _Hicham_: Actually, I'm kinda learning Django these days. | Sep 08 05:18 |
| Omar871 | _Hicham_: So, I'm sorta looking for some kind of a team. | Sep 08 05:18 |
| Omar871 | _Hicham_: Ya know, experienced people I can work with, learn from, etc. | Sep 08 05:19 |
| _Hicham_ | unfortunately, this is the first time i hear about this framework | Sep 08 05:21 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : no screenshots? | Sep 08 05:22 |
| Omar871 | _Hicham_: Oh, come one. Really? | Sep 08 05:24 |
| Omar871 | _Hicham_: It's one of the most famous Python-based web development platforms! :) | Sep 08 05:24 |
| Omar871 | _Hicham_: Check out the website: www.djangoproject.com | Sep 08 05:25 |
| _Hicham_ | I ve just seen the website | Sep 08 05:27 |
| _Hicham_ | it seems a great framework | Sep 08 05:27 |
| Omar871 | _Hicham_: Yeah, man. It sure is. :) | Sep 08 05:28 |
| twitter1 | the microsoft sparta image vanished, so I put up a new one. http://bayimg.com/EaDiMAaCm | Sep 08 05:37 |
| twitter1 | madness? this is FREEDOOOOMMMM! | Sep 08 05:37 |
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| twitter1 | tried gimp 2.6, it just gets better every time I use it | Sep 08 05:52 |
| twitter1 | the lasso tool is nicer now | Sep 08 05:53 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 : is that u with the black beard ? | Sep 08 05:53 |
| __c | mmm, it certainly does | Sep 08 05:53 |
| twitter1 | yeah, it was a rough night | Sep 08 05:53 |
| __c | _Hicham_: heh, that's an image from the movie "300". It's become a trend on the interwebs. | Sep 08 05:53 |
| twitter1 | shaved the day before but woke up with that and the scar. It was terrible. | Sep 08 05:54 |
| twitter1 | ;-) | Sep 08 05:54 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 the criminal | Sep 08 05:55 |
| twitter1 | freedom fighter to most, criminal to those with things to hide. | Sep 08 05:55 |
| __c | ... and Vigilante Superhero when night falls? | Sep 08 05:56 |
| twitter1 | when I have the time. | Sep 08 05:56 |
| __c | heheh ^_^ | Sep 08 05:56 |
| _Hicham_ | twitter1 the shill, looking to people from the top of the hill, and is always ready to fight and kill | Sep 08 06:01 |
| twitter1 | no killing, thank you | Sep 08 06:01 |
| _Hicham_ | big hug to twitter1 | Sep 08 06:05 |
| twitter1 | thanks, I needed that. | Sep 08 06:06 |
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| twitter1 | Slashdot picked up the WGA is Spyware story. http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/09/07/1955217/Lawsuit-Claims-WGA-Is-Spyware | Sep 08 06:40 |
| twitter1 | Fun, but they used standard English instead of newspeak http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/43891/98/ | Sep 08 06:55 |
| twitter1 | http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/ns-prin.html | Sep 08 06:58 |
| twitter1 | free as in lice or price -> The word free still existed in Newspeak, but could only be used in such statements as "The dog is free from lice" or "This field is free from weeds." It could not be used in its old sense of "politically free" or "intellectually free," since political and intellectual freedom no longer existed even as concepts. | Sep 08 06:59 |
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| slaxuser | Anybody here? | Sep 08 07:00 |
| twitter1 | 29 people in room | Sep 08 07:01 |
| _Hicham_ | slaxuser : are u a slackware nerd ? | Sep 08 07:02 |
| slaxuser | I like slax because I can easily remaster live cd's for friends | Sep 08 07:03 |
| _Hicham_ | does it have a package manager ? | Sep 08 07:05 |
| slaxuser | It uses the slackware package manager which is fairly basic. Works ok though. | Sep 08 07:06 |
| _Hicham_ | slaxuser : no dependencies management at all ? | Sep 08 07:09 |
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| twitter1 | Russia ends Windows XP case. http://www.reuters.com/article/technology-media-telco-SP/idUSL743645920090907 | Sep 08 07:30 |
| twitter1 | M$ still sells XP and will trade "Home" (more crippled than other versions) Vista for "Home" versions of XP for any user that requests it. | Sep 08 07:31 |
| twitter1 | yeah right | Sep 08 07:31 |
| _Hicham_ | "trade" no money at all ? | Sep 08 07:42 |
| twitter1 | don't think so. | Sep 08 07:43 |
| __c | sounds like a decent deal | Sep 08 07:48 |
| __c | Is it "Home Basic" they're offering? | Sep 08 07:48 |
| __c | If it's "Home Premium", that's pretty good. | Sep 08 07:48 |
| twitter1 | What kind of monopoly remedy is that? "Here have another copy of Windows?" sheesh. | Sep 08 07:49 |
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| __c | twitter1: they were exploring whether Microsoft *cutbacks* of XP supply were illegal. | Sep 08 07:50 |
| __c | twitter1: This is a near-perfect remedy for that problem. | Sep 08 07:50 |
| __c | And the Reuters article says you can trade in XP Home for Vista Home Premium, which is a reasonably sweet deal. | Sep 08 07:51 |
| twitter1 | so, you are an XP Home user? | Sep 08 07:51 |
| twitter1 | think it is "sweet" "decent" "pretty good"? | Sep 08 07:51 |
| __c | twitter1: Got it in a VM, but mainly use Ubuntu at home. | Sep 08 07:51 |
| twitter1 | What do you use it for? | Sep 08 07:52 |
| __c | twitter1: Flash, mostly. Can't play Desktop TD on amd64 in Ubuntu ;). | Sep 08 07:52 |
| __c | twitter1: Who am I to tell the Russians what to use? If they want to use Windows, let them use Windows. | Sep 08 07:52 |
| twitter1 | I suppose only Bill Gates can tell the Russians what to use. Their government did not protect their right to chose anything else. | Sep 08 07:53 |
| __c | As an end-user-experience, it's definitely better than XP. | Sep 08 07:53 |
| twitter1 | You are off the hook ___c | Sep 08 07:53 |
| cubezzz | none of the anti-trust cases ended well | Sep 08 07:53 |
| __c | twitter1: ummm again, look at the problem, look at the solution. This wasn't about monopolies. | Sep 08 07:53 |
| cubezzz | not even EU commission | Sep 08 07:54 |
| __c | twitter1: this was about supply and demand *from* a monopoly position. | Sep 08 07:54 |
| twitter1 | quit bullshitting me __c | Sep 08 07:54 |
| twitter1 | There's still a laptop trial. | Sep 08 07:55 |
| cubezzz | Russia does want to get off Microsoft software btw | Sep 08 07:55 |
| __c | twitter1: OK. Find this "bullshit" that I've said and quote it to me, and we'll discuss it. Don't be needlessly antagonistic. | Sep 08 07:55 |
| __c | twitter1: from the article: "Watchdog was probing cutbacks in supplies of Windows XP". | Sep 08 07:56 |
| __c | "The company has largely stopped selling Windows XP to retailers and major computer makers, forcing customers into using its successor, Windows Vista." | Sep 08 07:56 |
| twitter1 | bullshit article. | Sep 08 07:56 |
| twitter1 | M$ propaganda. | Sep 08 07:56 |
| __c | twitter1: it's your referenced article. And now it's propaganda? You posted it here yourself. | Sep 08 07:56 |
| twitter1 | I posted it as an example of a raw deal. | Sep 08 07:56 |
| twitter1 | You seem to like that kind of deal. | Sep 08 07:57 |
| twitter1 | or want to antagonize | Sep 08 07:57 |
| __c | twitter1: let's see ... free upgrade. Yes, I like it. | Sep 08 07:57 |
| twitter1 | or both | Sep 08 07:57 |
| twitter1 | FAS is an anti-trust division. | Sep 08 07:57 |
| twitter1 | you would think they are trying to protect a free market, you know, one with real choices. | Sep 08 07:57 |
| __c | twitter1: "antitrust" doesn't equate to "breaking up monopolies". It means "investigating monopolies". | Sep 08 07:58 |
| twitter1 | not the four month availability of Windows XP, which is what they got. | Sep 08 07:58 |
| cubezzz | well, let's see, Standard Oil, AT&T, .... :) | Sep 08 07:58 |
| cubezzz | the original reason for anti-trust | Sep 08 07:58 |
| twitter1 | one crime does not justify another. | Sep 08 07:58 |
| __c | twitter1: crime?! what? | Sep 08 07:58 |
| twitter1 | society protects itself from monopoly | Sep 08 07:59 |
| __c | twitter1: they're offering *free upgrades*. There's a crime here? | Sep 08 07:59 |
| twitter1 | predatory pricing and other dirty tricks are crimes. | Sep 08 07:59 |
| __c | twitter1: It works out for MS, because they don't have to support XP any more in Russia. | Sep 08 07:59 |
| __c | twitter1: It works out for Russians, because they get a free upgrade. | Sep 08 07:59 |
| __c | twitter1: Which other stakeholders have I left out? | Sep 08 08:00 |
| twitter1 | It's not free, they had to pay for a crappy OS that they get to trade for an older, crappy OS. | Sep 08 08:00 |
| __c | twitter1: what are you talking about? | Sep 08 08:00 |
| twitter1 | they were robbed of real choices other than Windows. It's not a free market. | Sep 08 08:00 |
| __c | twitter1: does Russian law say you can't install OSX? No? Well, where's the lack of choice, then? | Sep 08 08:00 |
| __c | They paid for XP, and now they can trade up to a newer, more user-friendly OS. Good deal. | Sep 08 08:01 |
| twitter1 | I imagine they do the same things there as they do here. | Sep 08 08:01 |
| twitter1 | There's lots of M$ email about what they do, perhaps you have read some of it at BN? | Sep 08 08:01 |
| __c | twitter1: *shrug* they do no worse than hundreds of other US corporations. | Sep 08 08:02 |
| twitter1 | It is more shameful that other countries allow their citizens to be robbed like that. | Sep 08 08:02 |
| twitter1 | Because M$ is a US company and most of the profits end up in the US, it is in the best interests of the rest of the world to escape to free software or at least their own non free software. | Sep 08 08:03 |
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| twitter1 | It is unbelievable that M$ has pulled of their second rate OS and text format monopolies for 30 years. | Sep 08 08:04 |
| __c | twitter1: OK. You go tell the man-in-the-street that he should not be able to do his job as effectively because it's in the Greater Interest of Non-US Society. Maybe that argument will fly in China. | Sep 08 08:04 |
| __c | Me? I'll continue recommending whatever's best for the job. | Sep 08 08:04 |
| __c | If it's Windows, it's Windows. If it's Linux, it's Linux. If it's anything else, fine as well. | Sep 08 08:05 |
| __c | Techology is an *enabler*. It is not an end in and of itself. | Sep 08 08:05 |
| twitter1 | What job is Windows the real answer? | Sep 08 08:05 |
| cubezzz | no source code = no freedom | Sep 08 08:06 |
| __c | twitter1: Umm. Let me count the ways. Standard document format and workflow using Sharepoint, easy-enough communication infrastructure based on Exchange, interop with clients and competitors and other businesses. | Sep 08 08:06 |
| twitter1 | OK now you are really trolling. -> Standard document format | Sep 08 08:06 |
| MinceR | lol, "standard document format" | Sep 08 08:06 |
| MinceR | get a clue | Sep 08 08:06 |
| __c | twitter1: you deny that Word is the de facto standard document format? How amusing. | Sep 08 08:07 |
| twitter1 | I deny that Word is any kind of "standard" | Sep 08 08:07 |
| __c | twitter1: fine. Just ignore that 80% of the docs floating around businesses, close your eyes really tight. | Sep 08 08:08 |
| twitter1 | It is inconsistent and incomplete. If that's why you recommend Windows, I pity your clients. | Sep 08 08:08 |
| __c | twitter1: my clients seem quite happy. Why don't you come along and tell them that they can't use their existing investments, and must all switch to a different OS and retrain everyone because of your ideology? I can't see why they wouldn't jump at the opportunity. | Sep 08 08:09 |
| twitter1 | For the benefit of Word, you would inflict the whole of Windows on people? The malware, poor performance, shit GUI, all that? | Sep 08 08:09 |
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| __c | twitter1: FWIW, malware is a problem with unpatched, non-locked-down OSes *across the spectrum*. | Sep 08 08:10 |
| twitter1 | Vista is a bigger retrain than any of the free desktops. You are so full of beans. | Sep 08 08:10 |
| __c | twitter1: poor performance isn't really true. | Sep 08 08:10 |
| twitter1 | I'm tired of this troll fest. | Sep 08 08:10 |
| __c | twitter1: And "shit GUI" is just plain false. Vista is much easier to use than XP. | Sep 08 08:10 |
| cubezzz | their filesystems fragment though, quite a lot | Sep 08 08:10 |
| __c | twitter1: Might I recommend that you *stop trolling*, then. | Sep 08 08:10 |
| *twitter1 ignores __c troll | Sep 08 08:10 | |
| cubezzz | hence poor performance, cycles wasting scanning for malware all the time... | Sep 08 08:11 |
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| __c | cubezzz: AV solutions are a bit more sophisticated than that these days. | Sep 08 08:11 |
| __c | cubezzz: Usually, it's on-access scanning combined with DEP. | Sep 08 08:12 |
| __c | cubezzz: the performance impact is low enough; and, besides, the fact of the matter is that most users don't end up using those cycles anyway. On whatever OS, the CPU usage rarely climbs to 100% and sticks there. Multi-core makes the problem go even further away. | Sep 08 08:13 |
| cubezzz | __c: let me ask you a simple question, do you have the source code for your windows device drivers? :) | Sep 08 08:13 |
| __c | cubezzz: no. | Sep 08 08:13 |
| cubezzz | how about the windows kernel? | Sep 08 08:14 |
| __c | cubezzz: no ... | Sep 08 08:14 |
| lark_ | you dont have the source for all the linux device drivers either, alot are binary blobs | Sep 08 08:14 |
| cubezzz | lark_, I do | Sep 08 08:15 |
| __c | cubezzz: I'm not really seeing your point. | Sep 08 08:15 |
| cubezzz | my point is you can't fix any device drivers, and you're dependent on someone else fixing any bugs | Sep 08 08:15 |
| __c | cubezzz: by that reasoning, I should be able to change clipping coordinates on my NVidia card when it outputs to a TV. Oh wait, I can't do that on Linux. But surely someone would have jumped in and fixed that for me? | Sep 08 08:16 |
| __c | cubezzz: Let me do a Google search. No, *nothing*. | Sep 08 08:17 |
| cubezzz | because you don't have the source code... | Sep 08 08:17 |
| __c | cubezzz: even if you have the source code, do you have the time to fix it? And the ability? Can you psychically channel Con Kolivas? | Sep 08 08:18 |
| cubezzz | I have learned a lot looking at driver source code | Sep 08 08:19 |
| cubezzz | not having the source is very bad | Sep 08 08:20 |
| __c | cubezzz: I'm sure you have. However, learning and fixing are two very different things. | Sep 08 08:20 |
| __c | cubezzz: And if your argument hinges on "without source code, you can't learn about your OS", I would ask how many people are interested in that. | Sep 08 08:20 |
| cubezzz | I can't speak for other people, just myself | Sep 08 08:21 |
| cubezzz | although I'd say having the source code for drivers would be a boon to any programmer | Sep 08 08:21 |
| __c | cubezzz: likewise. Nevertheless, you should see that if you don't have the source code for Windows -- so what? 99.999% of Windows users don't care. | Sep 08 08:21 |
| __c | And Windows is a *good* solution for them, unless they do happen to care -- in which case, I would obviously not recommend Windows to them. | Sep 08 08:22 |
| cubezzz | people should have a choice in stores though | Sep 08 08:22 |
| __c | cubezzz: no. Why should they? | Sep 08 08:22 |
| __c | cubezzz: customers demand, supplers supply *if they want to*. | Sep 08 08:23 |
| cubezzz | so they can pick the operating system themselves | Sep 08 08:23 |
| __c | cubezzz: that increases the support burden on the supplier. Obviously, from their perspective, that is a bad thing. | Sep 08 08:24 |
| cubezzz | so they aren't forced to pay for windows | Sep 08 08:24 |
| MinceR | 99.999% of windows users don't know what an operating system is | Sep 08 08:24 |
| __c | cubezzz: you can go the refund route. Or build by component. | Sep 08 08:24 |
| MinceR | and they don't know they could care. | Sep 08 08:24 |
| __c | MinceR: exactly. And that's fine, because technology is an enabler. It's not an end. | Sep 08 08:25 |
| cubezzz | MinceR, I don't think the percentage is really that low | Sep 08 08:25 |
| MinceR | no, it isn't fine. | Sep 08 08:25 |
| __c | why not? | Sep 08 08:25 |
| MinceR | it's the reason they're resorting to windows. | Sep 08 08:25 |
| MinceR | which impedes them in every task. | Sep 08 08:25 |
| cubezzz | __c, you understand I don't want to go the "refund route" right? | Sep 08 08:25 |
| MinceR | ignorance does not turn a bad tool into a good one. | Sep 08 08:25 |
| __c | cubezzz: that's your choice, then. Yes, it's a lot of admin for you. So? | Sep 08 08:25 |
| lark_ | then build your own system | Sep 08 08:26 |
| __c | cubezzz: A supplier is not under an obligation to cater to your demands. | Sep 08 08:26 |
| MinceR | lark_: how can he build a laptop? | Sep 08 08:26 |
| __c | MinceR: Windows is fine and usable for many common tasks: document editing, playing games, surfing the web, etc. | Sep 08 08:26 |
| cubezzz | __c, if a supplier doesn't "cater to my demands" I don't do business with them :) | Sep 08 08:26 |
| cubezzz | __c, do you buy stuff you don't want? | Sep 08 08:27 |
| MinceR | __c: tell that to those who have to reinstall because it collected so many crud | Sep 08 08:27 |
| __c | cubezzz: great, so you end up building by component. Which was the other choice I mentioned ^_^. | Sep 08 08:27 |
| MinceR | (malware, obsolete registry entries) | Sep 08 08:27 |
| MinceR | __c: can he build a laptop by component? | Sep 08 08:27 |
| __c | cubezzz: all the time. I buy biscuits, which come individually-wrapped. What a waste, to my mind, but they're passing the cost of it to me and I pay it, because I like the biscuits. | Sep 08 08:28 |
| MinceR | and you wouldn't have it any other way? | Sep 08 08:28 |
| cubezzz | that does sound wasteful | Sep 08 08:28 |
| __c | MinceR: *shrug* I don't know. Probably not. | Sep 08 08:28 |
| __c | MinceR: I'd have a lot of things another way. That doesn't affect reality. | Sep 08 08:28 |
| lark_ | I can buy off the shelf Laptops without HD's and I can buy HD;s for laptops that are blank. | Sep 08 08:28 |
| cubezzz | guys, of course I assemble, I've been assembling computers for over 20 years | Sep 08 08:29 |
| MinceR | __c: so you instead lie to yourself that windows is just fine. | Sep 08 08:29 |
| cubezzz | I know about it :) | Sep 08 08:29 |
| __c | MinceR: no, I've told you a number of tasks for which Windows is just fine. | Sep 08 08:29 |
| MinceR | lark_: where? | Sep 08 08:29 |
| lark_ | local computer shop, anywhere, everywhere. | Sep 08 08:29 |
| __c | lark_: can't find it at my computer shop :/. | Sep 08 08:30 |
| MinceR | you have interesting local computer shops. | Sep 08 08:30 |
| cubezzz | hmm, that is interesting | Sep 08 08:30 |
| cubezzz | I'll ask around for that | Sep 08 08:30 |
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| *twitter has kicked __c from #boycottnovell (twitter) | Sep 08 08:30 | |
| cubezzz | ummm | Sep 08 08:31 |
| :-D | Sep 08 08:31 | |
| cubezzz | ok :) | Sep 08 08:31 |
| lark_ | we also have every few months a "computer fair" that attends a local stadium, where hundreds of computer sellers sell everything, at low prices. | Sep 08 08:31 |
| he'll be back, I'm sure. | Sep 08 08:31 | |
| cubezzz | lark_, where do you live? | Sep 08 08:31 |
| lark_ | Australia | Sep 08 08:31 |
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| __c | twitter: wtf? | Sep 08 08:32 |
| behave. | Sep 08 08:32 | |
| this is not a channel to promote windows. | Sep 08 08:32 | |
| cubezzz | I'd rather the OEMs, any OEM, would support Linux, and Sharp does, so there are some | Sep 08 08:32 |
| __c | twitter: I was misled by the topic, " Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software". Please change the topic to reflect the true intent of the channel. | Sep 08 08:32 |
| cubezzz | I buy from Sharp for that reason | Sep 08 08:32 |
| behave __c | Sep 08 08:33 | |
| cubezzz | anyone, my philosophy is to support FOSS | Sep 08 08:33 |
| cubezzz | I don't expect everyone to be the same as me | Sep 08 08:33 |
| __c | twitter: no, you behave. You're abusing your ops, and preventing us from having a proper conversation. | Sep 08 08:34 |
| __c | twitter: nobody here, apart from you, is calling me a troll. | Sep 08 08:34 |
| __c | twitter: that should be a clue to you. | Sep 08 08:35 |
| MinceR | __c: others have already, before. | Sep 08 08:35 |
| MinceR | __c: but if you need clarification: you're a troll. | Sep 08 08:35 |
| twitter1 | Quit giving me clues __c | Sep 08 08:35 |
| __c | MinceR: then don't interact with me. Ignore me. That's how to defeat a troll. | Sep 08 08:35 |
| MinceR | __c: not really. | Sep 08 08:36 |
| cubezzz | I had a very interesting time studying bttv, if I had a windows system, I could not have learning much from the device driver for say a hauppage tv tuner card | Sep 08 08:36 |
| MinceR | __c: how you defeat a troll on irc is kick/ban/kline/gline/gzline. | Sep 08 08:36 |
| MinceR | (or silence) | Sep 08 08:36 |
| cubezzz | not to mention I frequently recompile applications and windows managers | Sep 08 08:37 |
| __c | MinceR: tell you what, I'll make it easy for you, and not respond to you. That way, I'll only be talking to people who want to actually engage on issues. | Sep 08 08:38 |
| MinceR | on windows, recompiling the windows manager would mean recompiling windows itself :> | Sep 08 08:38 |
| cubezzz | if Linux FOSS software becomes unsupported, I can still add new features | Sep 08 08:38 |
| cubezzz | e.g. kooka | Sep 08 08:38 |
| MinceR | __c: that's good. | Sep 08 08:38 |
| MinceR | s/ws m/w m/ | Sep 08 08:38 |
| cubezzz | I try to even encourage manufacturers like HP to do more Linux support, I talk to the dev groups | Sep 08 08:39 |
| cubezzz | and they helped me with programming documentation | Sep 08 08:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | HP enterprise stuff isnt so bad | Sep 08 08:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | its the pre- and post-Compaq consumer shit thats bad | Sep 08 08:40 |
| cubezzz | Diablo-D3, yeah I was trying to get HP to give me programming info for their newer scanners | Sep 08 08:40 |
| cubezzz | they would only give me the docs for the older ones | Sep 08 08:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'm surprised HP just hasn't moved to a singular scanner interface across all scanners | Sep 08 08:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | they produce enough of the damn things, and writing drivers suck even for their own people | Sep 08 08:41 |
| cubezzz | http://cubeman.org/hp.txt | Sep 08 08:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | but yeah, your problem is well known | Sep 08 08:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | HP doesn't make the world's greatest scanners, so I dont really care | Sep 08 08:42 |
| cubezzz | ;-) | Sep 08 08:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | for standard sized flatbets, epson and canon have models that are tied for the number one spot | Sep 08 08:42 |
| cubezzz | I'll probably go epson next when my HP 5200C dies | Sep 08 08:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | look at the v500 or 700 | Sep 08 08:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | they have linux drivers, but they're closed source | Sep 08 08:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | but they _do_ work | Sep 08 08:43 |
| cubezzz | hmmm | Sep 08 08:43 |
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| Diablo-D3 | imo its semi-pointless to have linux drivers for scanners sometimes | Sep 08 08:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | I use photoshop | Sep 08 08:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | so I'm going to be plugging my scanner into virtualbox's usb pass through and go from there | Sep 08 08:44 |
| MinceR | so it's semi-pointless for you | Sep 08 08:44 |
| cubezzz | I have reverse-engineered drivers for some stuff | Sep 08 08:44 |
| MinceR | i use gimp, so it's important for me | Sep 08 08:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | I still run photoshop on linux, mind you, just not directly | Sep 08 08:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: gimp has... issues. | Sep 08 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | virtualization is still too damned slow to be useful on most hardware out there | Sep 08 08:44 |
| MinceR | so does photoshop | Sep 08 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | you're better off just dual booting if you need Windows | Sep 08 08:44 |
| cubezzz | Diablo-D3, yeah I just like to program everything if I can | Sep 08 08:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | photoshop at least handles 16-bit per channel and color spaces | Sep 08 08:45 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: that is, if you only need windows at that time | Sep 08 08:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | gimp only recently gained color spaces | Sep 08 08:45 |
| MinceR | which means gimp has them :> | Sep 08 08:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: virtualbox is nearly native speed for me | Sep 08 08:45 |
| cubezzz | I even tried to get the source code for my router software :) | Sep 08 08:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: gimp doesnt have 16 bit per pixel images yet | Sep 08 08:45 |
| MinceR | which you may or may not need | Sep 08 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | run Photoshop in Wine? | Sep 08 08:46 |
| __c | DaemonFC: try it out on something with virtualisation extensions. Other than GPU-intensive stuff, it's pretty much native speed. | Sep 08 08:46 |
| MinceR | the newest photoshop doesn't tend to run in wine | Sep 08 08:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | wine sucks badly | Sep 08 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | my CPU has hardware virtualization | Sep 08 08:46 |
| cubezzz | I tend towards the Stallman philosophy without being as strict as Stallman | Sep 08 08:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | my cpu also has hardware virtualization... windows is nearly native speed for me | Sep 08 08:46 |
| __c | DaemonFC: what app are you running? | Sep 08 08:46 |
| MinceR | also, there are virtualizers that support DirectX and/or OpenGL acceleration | Sep 08 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | Vista is just too fucking fat to run all by itself | Sep 08 08:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: virtualbox | Sep 08 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | much less on some kind of VM | Sep 08 08:47 |
| MinceR | Diablo-D3: iirc that only does OpenGL | Sep 08 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 08 08:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | virtualbox has nearly complete opengl passthrough and they use wine3d in clientspace to do d3d | Sep 08 08:47 |
| MinceR | ic | Sep 08 08:47 |
| MinceR | VMware claims to do directx and can make use of VMGL | Sep 08 08:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | wine3d is replacement direct3d dlls for real windows based on the wine code | Sep 08 08:47 |
| MinceR | too bad vmware is crap otherwise | Sep 08 08:47 |
| __c | although the d3d is pretty shoddy. | Sep 08 08:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | d3d itself is pretty shoddy | Sep 08 08:47 |
| DaemonFC | Windows is pretty shoddy | Sep 08 08:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | wine has problems even coding the stuff to begin with because d3d is so poorly designed | Sep 08 08:48 |
| MinceR | anything developed by m$ is pretty shoddy | Sep 08 08:48 |
| __c | well, d3d has problems, but so does openGL | Sep 08 08:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | photoshop uses opengl, btw, not d3d | Sep 08 08:48 |
| MinceR | OpenGL's problem is called "micro$oft" | Sep 08 08:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | and yes, the gpu acceleration in photoshop does work in virtualbox | Sep 08 08:48 |
| DaemonFC | face it, when you use Wine, you're using something that's aiming to be roughly compatible with a buggy system that's buckling under 10 layers of legacy crap | Sep 08 08:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | though its not as nifty as it should be | Sep 08 08:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont use gigantic 10000000x100000000 images | Sep 08 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | Wine does a pretty good job when you think about it that way | Sep 08 08:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | wine is not perfect | Sep 08 08:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | thus it causes severe problems | Sep 08 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | I've had Vista fuck up and eat my data far more times than Wine has | Sep 08 08:49 |
| MinceR | nothing is perfect :) | Sep 08 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | honestly | Sep 08 08:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | Ive never had windows do that | Sep 08 08:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | seriously | Sep 08 08:49 |
| cubezzz | I don't see how wine could be anywhere near perfect | Sep 08 08:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | as much as I hate windows, Ive never had it eat data | Sep 08 08:50 |
| MinceR | i've had it eat data | Sep 08 08:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | then again, I don't get viruses | Sep 08 08:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | nor do I buy hardware with shoddy drivers | Sep 08 08:50 |
| MinceR | xp looked at my VFAT partitions, then it trashed them all | Sep 08 08:50 |
| cubezzz | Diablo-D3, how do you know if the drivers are shoddy or not before you use them? :) | Sep 08 08:50 |
| MinceR | i could only regain part of my data via GetDataBack | Sep 08 08:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: the internet. | Sep 08 08:51 |
| cubezzz | a lot of people say 5200C is garbage | Sep 08 08:51 |
| MinceR | "don't worry ma'am, we're from the internet" | Sep 08 08:51 |
| cubezzz | it's not though | Sep 08 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | If I had a dollar for every time Vista has made me want to punch the monitor I could buy Microsoft and GPL Windows | Sep 08 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | well, most scanner softwares are shit | Sep 08 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont bother using the drivers if I can get away with it | Sep 08 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | vuescan works in linux | Sep 08 08:52 |
| cubezzz | I use mogrify for sharpening and contrast and stuff | Sep 08 08:52 |
| twitter1 | kooka is simple and works | Sep 08 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | on _some_ scanners it requires the drivers, but it doesnt use the rest of the software suite | Sep 08 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | I use vuescan only to scan | Sep 08 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | best scanner frontend ever written | Sep 08 08:52 |
| cubezzz | is kooka still being updated though? | Sep 08 08:52 |
| twitter1 | If you avoid hardware that has shit drivers, you can use kooka | Sep 08 08:52 |
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| twitter1 | I don't need updates for something that works | Sep 08 08:53 |
| cubezzz | he's a cynic alright :) | Sep 08 08:53 |
| cubezzz | twitter1, true and you have the source so no big deal | Sep 08 08:53 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Which is your favorite Vista error? When the SATA driver crashes and you get the random blue screen of death or when your wireless adapter freezes the computer with no warning? Mine is definitely those two tied with "System wakes up from sleep mode precisely whenever" as the runner up | Sep 08 08:54 |
| cubezzz | I modded mplayer, I can't mod windows media player, QED :) | Sep 08 08:55 |
| DaemonFC | Oh, and let's not forget "Web browser crashes on Ustream or Justin.tv when you're on Windows x64 and hit Broadcast | Sep 08 08:56 |
| cubezzz | I'd recommend looking at sopcast actually | Sep 08 08:57 |
| cubezzz | Ustream and Justin.tv are kind of crappy | Sep 08 08:57 |
| DaemonFC | every version of Windows has bugs, lots and lots of bugs | Sep 08 08:57 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think Vista had anything that even came close to working | Sep 08 08:57 |
| MinceR | depends on what their goal was :> | Sep 08 08:58 |
| DaemonFC | oh, then there's the bug where you go to delete a folder and Vista tells you there is no such folder | Sep 08 08:58 |
| DaemonFC | and you have to open the command prompt and delete it by it's MS-DOS 8.3 name | Sep 08 08:58 |
| DaemonFC | speaking of which, Windows Live Messenger truncates long file names | Sep 08 08:59 |
| MinceR | lulz | Sep 08 08:59 |
| DaemonFC | I think I've hit just about every Vista bug there was and found more | Sep 08 09:00 |
| twitter1 | here are some more http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/215115 | Sep 08 09:00 |
| DaemonFC | then Windows 7 is almost as stupid with those damnable "virtual libraries" | Sep 08 09:00 |
| cubezzz | DaemonFC, ok, if you think windows is that crappy, why don't you stop using it? | Sep 08 09:00 |
| twitter1 | he did | Sep 08 09:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: I dont use vista | Sep 08 09:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | I only use xp | Sep 08 09:01 |
| DaemonFC | you go to pick a folder to save something to and there's a library called "Music" and it says "That's not a folder you stupid ass" | Sep 08 09:01 |
| DaemonFC | and you think "Well why the hell can't it FORWARD the request?" | Sep 08 09:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont like libraries in vista | Sep 08 09:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | they're weird | Sep 08 09:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | its basically unionfs for directories | Sep 08 09:02 |
| DaemonFC | granted that Windows 7's GUI isn't the clusterfuck that Vista is, but it's still not intuitive, and I still found myself tripping over things | Sep 08 09:02 |
| twitter1 | this kind of ranting is typical. Windows does that to people. They calm down after a few years of free software use. After a decade, I can almost forget these things.... | Sep 08 09:02 |
| twitter1 | then I go to work and stare at XP. | Sep 08 09:03 |
| twitter1 | so horrible | Sep 08 09:03 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, looks like you're trying to claw your eyes out, want some help? | Sep 08 09:03 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Sep 08 09:03 |
| cubezzz | yeah windows is very hard to avoid completely | Sep 08 09:03 |
| MinceR | can you take a laptop to work? | Sep 08 09:03 |
| twitter1 | I can bring a laptop, but I still have to use the company record keeping software. | Sep 08 09:04 |
| DaemonFC | whoever thought green and blue would be good colors to put in the same theme needs to be kicked in the nuts | Sep 08 09:05 |
| cubezzz | I'm not learning to program under Vista, no way :) | Sep 08 09:05 |
| MinceR | it might still lessen the strain -- if there are any other apps to use beside it | Sep 08 09:05 |
| twitter1 | Windows is not that hard to avoid, but I have to work with people who don't know any better. | Sep 08 09:06 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, Just use .NET, it instantly balloons to take up all the user's resources and then some | Sep 08 09:06 |
| DaemonFC | doesn't seem to matter what the app is | Sep 08 09:06 |
| twitter1 | I can get real work done on the laptop. The other stuff. Well, I just put up with being less efficient. | Sep 08 09:06 |
| twitter1 | Lots of stupid clicking. No place keeping. Poor stability. Not even tabbed browsing to help make space on the single screen interface. | Sep 08 09:08 |
| DaemonFC | what I can't believe is that there's people that shop online and punch in their credit card numbers on the same computer they have Limewire on | Sep 08 09:08 |
| twitter1 | What I can't believe is how people use the same kind of software at the other end, in the business and at the bank. | Sep 08 09:08 |
| DaemonFC | someone asked me why I wouldn't buy something online with their computer, I asked them if they knew anyone with needles to share while I was at it | Sep 08 09:08 |
| cubezzz | well the browser encrypts information like passwords | Sep 08 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | doesn't matter | Sep 08 09:09 |
| twitter1 | keyloggers on windows catch every stroke | Sep 08 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | spyware uses keyloggers | Sep 08 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | it can just snag it as you type | Sep 08 09:09 |
| cubezzz | well, that's just another reason not to use doze | Sep 08 09:09 |
| twitter1 | puts them in a file and greps it for passwords | Sep 08 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | who gives a shit if the browser encrypts it after it's too late? | Sep 08 09:09 |
| cubezzz | how do you know there isn't a backdoor in windows for that matter? | Sep 08 09:11 |
| cubezzz | you don't have the source | Sep 08 09:11 |
| twitter1 | "Get rich or die tryin" harvested information at the stores. Same Windows, same cracks. | Sep 08 09:11 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, I doubt Microsoft is stealing credit card numbers | Sep 08 09:11 |
| DaemonFC | they can get that much money from you by releasing an "upgrade" to Windows or Office | Sep 08 09:11 |
| DaemonFC | why resort to illegal activity? | Sep 08 09:11 |
| cubezzz | DaemonFC, ummm | Sep 08 09:11 |
| cubezzz | I'm sure they do resort to illegal activity :) | Sep 08 09:12 |
| twitter1 | they can make money monitoring and selling your info without robbing your cc | Sep 08 09:12 |
| cubezzz | maybe not stealing cc numbers, but in other ways | Sep 08 09:12 |
| twitter1 | they are a convicted monopolist, a felon | Sep 08 09:12 |
| DaemonFC | twitter1, I'm sure they do | Sep 08 09:12 |
| twitter1 | spyware | Sep 08 09:12 |
| cubezzz | like schestowitz said, Gates was trained as a lawyer, knows how to skirt the law | Sep 08 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | Spyware on Windows is like roaches | Sep 08 09:13 |
| twitter1 | Vista has those nifty indexing routines .... | Sep 08 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | you can spray all you want and they just scatter and come back later | Sep 08 09:13 |
| cubezzz | right, well I don't seem to have these problems :) | Sep 08 09:15 |
| cubezzz | no viruses, no spyware | Sep 08 09:15 |
| DaemonFC | DRM, anti-features, spyware, costs $300, what's not to love? | Sep 08 09:15 |
| cubezzz | the DRM thing I hated the most was the videos that expire | Sep 08 09:16 |
| cubezzz | after a year, it stops working | Sep 08 09:16 |
| DaemonFC | if your system has Windows on it, you're renting your own property from Microsoft | Sep 08 09:16 |
| schestowitz | KDE shines almost everywhere. I'm just waiting for knode to regain some features like drag-and-srop | Sep 08 09:17 |
| cubezzz | I've been off doze since 2003, I wasn't as quick as some | Sep 08 09:17 |
| schestowitz | *frop | Sep 08 09:17 |
| schestowitz | >*drop | Sep 08 09:17 |
| schestowitz | Hey, bethlynn. wb | Sep 08 09:17 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft can't steal your computer and make you pay ransom, but they may as well. They have it to where it looks like Windows is part of the system. They train support monkeys at HP and Dell to tell you that it won't work without Windows... | Sep 08 09:18 |
| cubezzz | Dell does sell linux boxes | Sep 08 09:19 |
| cubezzz | you can buy online from dell.ca and even get free shipping | Sep 08 09:19 |
| DaemonFC | Not really they don't. They're the same price as the Windows ones and there's only 1 model in each category | Sep 08 09:19 |
| DaemonFC | Dell's Linux systems are a rip off and a half | Sep 08 09:20 |
| DaemonFC | then they do shit like sell the Windows version of that system with a free printer or something | Sep 08 09:20 |
| DaemonFC | their "specials" never apply to the Linux systems | Sep 08 09:21 |
| DaemonFC | And they don't even currently _have_ a desktop model for sale. Have you noticed this? | Sep 08 09:21 |
| cubezzz | DaemonFC, yeah there isn't really a good selection, no doubt about it | Sep 08 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | something tells me that Dell is the next "It's Better With Windows" camper | Sep 08 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | right after they purge the rest of the Ubuntu systems they have on hand | Sep 08 09:22 |
| cubezzz | I'm merely pointing out that at least they do sell boxes with Linux, and also have some dual-boot systems, when sometimes when the customer doesn't even ask for dual-boot | Sep 08 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | they won't for much longer | Sep 08 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | I can just smell Microsoft around, twisting their arm, greasing the gears | Sep 08 09:23 |
| cubezzz | well, sounds like it's time for a build your own laptop project :) | Sep 08 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | "Sell Windows! It's the one that lets you bombard the customer with 20 gigabytes of crapware!" | Sep 08 09:23 |
| cubezzz | I can assemble a laptop, and do most repairs | Sep 08 09:24 |
| DaemonFC | and visions of Norton dollar signs dance in their heads | Sep 08 09:24 |
| DaemonFC | When OEMs can figure out how to get you to pay $60 more for a Linux system -or- make $60 per system in kickbacks from crapware bundles like they do with Windows, you'll see more Linux systems out there | Sep 08 09:26 |
| cubezzz | the earliest personal computers were in kit form | Sep 08 09:26 |
| DaemonFC | the OEMs don't give you a clean Windows disc so you can wipe out the crapware once and for all | Sep 08 09:28 |
| DaemonFC | they give you a "recovery partition" that resurrects the crapware, all of it, when Windows bites the dust and you need to recover | Sep 08 09:28 |
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| *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 10:29 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Eye on Microsoft: The Security Comedy Resumes http://ping.fm/RSRYM | Sep 08 10:42 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Best Buy Has Collusion/Racketeering History with Microsoft, Anti-GNU/Linux Training Comes to Staples Employees Too http://ping.fm/kH8Sc | Sep 08 10:54 | |
| *schestowitz has justb files a "wishlist" bug to kde: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206728 | Sep 08 11:08 | |
| schestowitz | *just filed | Sep 08 11:08 |
| DaemonFC | I'd like to see them port Cheese actually | Sep 08 11:09 |
| schestowitz | To what? | Sep 08 11:19 |
| DaemonFC | KDE | Sep 08 11:26 |
| DaemonFC | uggh, my ear is killing me | Sep 08 11:26 |
| MinceR | then they could call it Keeze | Sep 08 11:26 |
| MinceR | or Kamembert | Sep 08 11:26 |
| DaemonFC | I went to the doctor and paid him $90 so he could tell me I've developed TMJ pain and to take aspirin | Sep 08 11:27 |
| DaemonFC | Kheese | Sep 08 11:27 |
| MinceR | at least you know it isn't something more serious | Sep 08 11:27 |
| schestowitz | Doesn't cheese use plugins with Mono? I'm sure it dos. | Sep 08 11:30 |
| schestowitz | *does | Sep 08 11:30 |
| *PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Sep 08 11:31 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Cheese does not depend on Mono | Sep 08 11:33 |
| MinceR | i was thinking of writing something that can replace gnome-do and its file/folder plugin | Sep 08 11:33 |
| MinceR | perhaps a plugin to Katapult | Sep 08 11:33 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, Just something about paying him $90 cause I think my ear is about to rot and fall off and he tells me it's a damned nuisance and to take aspirin | Sep 08 11:34 |
| DaemonFC | just something about that bothers me | Sep 08 11:34 |
| MinceR | well, now you know your ear isn't about to rot nor to fall off | Sep 08 11:34 |
| DaemonFC | that's not how it should work | Sep 08 11:35 |
| DaemonFC | when I pay someone $90 cause I think my ear is about to rot and fall off they should say "Damn! You got here just in time!" and give me pills | Sep 08 11:35 |
| DaemonFC | it makes me feel better for having paid the $90 | Sep 08 11:35 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 08 11:35 |
| MinceR | or they should say "well, it wasn't but *sneak-injects you with something* now it is!" | Sep 08 11:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Vista 7 Less Secure Than Predecessors? Remote BSoD Now Possible! http://ping.fm/75tu7 | Sep 08 11:38 | |
| schestowitz | ^^^DaemonFC: if you boot into Vista 7, then we can take you down (BSOD) :-p | Sep 08 11:38 |
| MinceR | finally | Sep 08 11:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] I really should have plugged the bouncy castle into a different 4-way. Sophie comes to turn it on and I twitch she will turn off the router. | Sep 08 11:39 | |
| MinceR | the feature we've all been waiting for! | Sep 08 11:39 |
| schestowitz | Remote disablement | Sep 08 11:40 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 should make no foes... | Sep 08 11:40 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 _users_ should make no foes, either./ | Sep 08 11:40 |
| MinceR | with that "rewrite" some bugs did stay around anyway | Sep 08 11:41 |
| schestowitz | I don't know... | Sep 08 11:44 |
| schestowitz | BUT... | Sep 08 11:44 |
| schestowitz | They did have some TCP/IP bugs before | Sep 08 11:44 |
| schestowitz | Like packet that owned Vista | Sep 08 11:44 |
| schestowitz | That's how bad it is | Sep 08 11:44 |
| schestowitz | Much worse than BSoD. | Sep 08 11:44 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft never rewrites anything | Sep 08 11:45 |
| DaemonFC | they blow some of the dust off things when they can't possibly hide how unkind time has been to it | Sep 08 11:46 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 08 11:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Windows 7 reintroduces remote BSoD! Well done, guys. http://is.gd/31MiW #microsoftfail | Sep 08 11:46 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] please vote up the remote BSoD link on Slashdot http://is.gd/31NvN | Sep 08 11:55 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Oops. Just found myself bouncing on the castle. How did that happen. | Sep 08 11:56 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, the BSD networking code was gone as of Windows 2000 | Sep 08 11:59 |
| DaemonFC | you're thinking WAY back to NT 3.x/4 | Sep 08 12:00 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] European Litigation Act: http://is.gd/31OMg | Sep 08 12:04 | |
| schestowitz | Asay is being obnoxious.. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10346174-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad | Sep 08 12:18 |
| trmanco | how do you know that? do you have access to windows source code? | Sep 08 12:44 |
| schestowitz | Russia drops XP investigation < http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/09/08/russia_xp_probe/ > | Sep 08 12:45 |
| schestowitz | Didot at Reg: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/08/itic_server_availability_rankings/ | Sep 08 12:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @werdnum http://ping.fm/20bDy The Lorem Ipsum song #win | Sep 08 12:54 | |
| schestowitz | test | Sep 08 13:02 |
| schestowitz | I'm just customising the IRC client | Sep 08 13:02 |
| schestowitz | Konversation is very powerful | Sep 08 13:02 |
| schestowitz_log | test2 | Sep 08 13:07 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.hulu.com/watch/78798/dead-like-me-business-unfinished#x-0,vepisode,1 | Sep 08 13:08 |
| DaemonFC | lol @ 3:23 | Sep 08 13:08 |
| DaemonFC | that does explain where the paycheck goes | Sep 08 13:09 |
| schestowitz | Firefox upgrade will check for third party updates < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1532670/firefox-upgrade-check-party-updates > Does it not already do that? | Sep 08 13:09 |
| DaemonFC | she envisions her boss cutting into her check "FICA, Medicare, Medicaid, Federal Tax, State Tax, Social Security Tax, Vision, Dental, Mental", each time cutting the check in half til there's only a speck of paper left | Sep 08 13:10 |
| DaemonFC | "Somehow, having no money doesn't sound like a health benefit" | Sep 08 13:10 |
| DaemonFC | best scene ever :) | Sep 08 13:10 |
| schestowitz | That's how it goes | Sep 08 13:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | well | Sep 08 13:11 |
| schestowitz | There's no law on distribution of wealth INSIDE corporations | Sep 08 13:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | it could swing the other way | Sep 08 13:11 |
| schestowitz | Because they are tytrannies in nature | Sep 08 13:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | make both health care benifits and insurance illegal | Sep 08 13:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | which would also be an acceptable solution | Sep 08 13:11 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Unless you're a "concerned citizen against ObamaCare" (Read: Insurance company lobbyist/astroturfer or just plain fucking stupid) | Sep 08 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Sep 08 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | plenty of them to go around for the Fixed News cycle | Sep 08 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | plenty of crazy cat ladies to rile up with the "They're gonna kill Grandma" lie | Sep 08 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, http://www.amazon.com/Crazy-Cat-Lady-Action-Figure/dp/B0006GKJ7C | Sep 08 13:14 |
| DaemonFC | Ann Coulter? | Sep 08 13:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: no | Sep 08 13:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | health insurance actually should be illegal imo | Sep 08 13:15 |
| DaemonFC | oh right, there's no adam's apple | Sep 08 13:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | obamacare simply covers up the problem | Sep 08 13:15 |
| DaemonFC | can't be Ann Coulter | Sep 08 13:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | health insurance, by the literal reading of the name, means "insurance, of the definition everyone uses, that insures your health" | Sep 08 13:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | ie, you get sick, they pay for it | Sep 08 13:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | period | Sep 08 13:16 |
| schestowitz | T-Mobile and Orange in UK merger < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8243226.stm > | Sep 08 13:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | no canceling your insurance because you got sick, no not paying for things, no anything | Sep 08 13:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | having problems being profitable? your failed business model is not my problem. | Sep 08 13:17 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, that's where they get you | Sep 08 13:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | medicare worked pretty damned well for 20+ years | Sep 08 13:17 |
| DaemonFC | you pay all their premiums then they drop you once you make a serious enough claim | Sep 08 13:17 |
| DaemonFC | so what good is it? | Sep 08 13:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: yup | Sep 08 13:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats not insurance | Sep 08 13:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats a class action. | Sep 08 13:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'm both for and against obamacare | Sep 08 13:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | on one hand, it doesnt work because it doesnt shorten the leash enough | Sep 08 13:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | on the other hand, if it doesnt pass, we're writing those companies a blank check | Sep 08 13:18 |
| schestowitz_log | [ignore] test /highlight/ - schestowitz | Sep 08 13:18 |
| DaemonFC | well, the system where they have to compete with the public option is better than letting them run amok | Sep 08 13:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | they'll know they can do anything and not get in trouble | Sep 08 13:18 |
| DaemonFC | which is what we have now | Sep 08 13:18 |
| schestowitz | OK, it works | Sep 08 13:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: well, obamacare works because of that | Sep 08 13:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | it forces the really bad ones out of business | Sep 08 13:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | which, as a whole, greatly improves the system | Sep 08 13:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | if a company starts shafting people, people _can_ go elsewhere | Sep 08 13:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | the concept of a public option shouldn't even be allowed to be voted by congress: its ultimately an expression of our constitutional rights | Sep 08 13:19 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Walmart employees qualify for food stamps, state and federal health benefits, and public assisted housing | Sep 08 13:19 |
| DaemonFC | you don't save anything when you shop at Walmart | Sep 08 13:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont shop at walmart | Sep 08 13:20 |
| DaemonFC | you just get to pay for the rest in taxes because they pay their employees starvation wages | Sep 08 13:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | and btw | Sep 08 13:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | I do think we need to increase minimum wage | Sep 08 13:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | I don't care if people get fired over it... its not the governments job to cater to dicks. | Sep 08 13:20 |
| DaemonFC | BTW, They *did* used to pass out pamphlets on how to apply for public food, housing, and health benefits | Sep 08 13:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: they should | Sep 08 13:21 |
| DaemonFC | til they got called on it | Sep 08 13:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | have you ever seen walmart's shit? | Sep 08 13:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | its horrinle | Sep 08 13:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | they have no actual health care benefits | Sep 08 13:21 |
| DaemonFC | I know | Sep 08 13:21 |
| DaemonFC | there's two people in the store that have health insurance | Sep 08 13:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | the walmart plan is basically walmart gets paid $15k everytime an employee dies | Sep 08 13:21 |
| DaemonFC | the store manager, and the co manager | Sep 08 13:22 |
| DaemonFC | three people if it's a real big store and has two co managers | Sep 08 13:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | if you make a claim, its automatically denied | Sep 08 13:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | they sometimes actually get paid _below_ minimum wage | Sep 08 13:22 |
| DaemonFC | and there's about 300-500 people working there | Sep 08 13:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | and not only that | Sep 08 13:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | get this part | Sep 08 13:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | walmart has no employees | Sep 08 13:22 |
| DaemonFC | the rest of them, including assistant managers, get something "called" health insurance | Sep 08 13:22 |
| DaemonFC | its phoney | Sep 08 13:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | see above statement | Sep 08 13:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | walmart sidesteps a lot of laws by calling them partners | Sep 08 13:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | walmart should be forced out of business, its bad for the economy | Sep 08 13:23 |
| DaemonFC | the "associate" job title is mostly for morale | Sep 08 13:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | nope | Sep 08 13:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | its for legal reasons | Sep 08 13:23 |
| DaemonFC | no it's not | Sep 08 13:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | yup, it is | Sep 08 13:23 |
| DaemonFC | the law says you're an hourly employee | Sep 08 13:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | not unless the law makes you | Sep 08 13:24 |
| DaemonFC | they can call you whatever they like | Sep 08 13:24 |
| DaemonFC | it's the same thing | Sep 08 13:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | several states have pending litigation against walmart over this | Sep 08 13:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | walmart needs to be forced out of business | Sep 08 13:24 |
| DaemonFC | they still have to pay unemployment tax on you, social security tax on you, etc. | Sep 08 13:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | they are not efficient | Sep 08 13:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | companies that are not efficient have no right to exist | Sep 08 13:24 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, I lost every unemployment case I've been sent to fight and I did it on purpose | Sep 08 13:25 |
| DaemonFC | I always did hate that place and how it made me feel every day | Sep 08 13:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | heh | Sep 08 13:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | what _do_ you do for a living? | Sep 08 13:25 |
| DaemonFC | things | Sep 08 13:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | either way, I no longer care about people anymore, I only care about the efficiency of the system | Sep 08 13:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | people who do not have sufficient healthcare are efficient | Sep 08 13:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | er | Sep 08 13:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | people who do not have sufficient healthcare are not efficient | Sep 08 13:27 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not working for them, that's good enough for me | Sep 08 13:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | people who die are not efficient | Sep 08 13:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | people who do not work 100% 100% of the time are not efficient | Sep 08 13:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | any time a worker has to take even 5 minutes out of their day to deal with bullshit, its 5 minutes they're not working. | Sep 08 13:27 |
| DaemonFC | I was working at Rent-A-Center by the time Vista started rolling out | Sep 08 13:28 |
| DaemonFC | I don't have anything polite to say about it | Sep 08 13:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'm ultimately for obamacare because its one less distraction for a worker | Sep 08 13:28 |
| DaemonFC | Vista singlehandedly destroyed our computer rental demand | Sep 08 13:29 |
| DaemonFC | people would rent them, put up with Vista for maybe an entire week or two and send it back | Sep 08 13:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | hah | Sep 08 13:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | this is why I love linux | Sep 08 13:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | takes almost no time to reimage a system | Sep 08 13:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | same way with macs, actually | Sep 08 13:30 |
| DaemonFC | the store manager there blacklisted a guy who formatted over Vista with Ubuntu | Sep 08 13:31 |
| DaemonFC | told me not to rent any more systems to him | Sep 08 13:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: btw, I assume rentacenter doesnt have a bulk license key thing | Sep 08 13:31 |
| DaemonFC | we couldn't rent it out for almost a week after he brought it back because we didn't have a Vista recovery DVD for it | Sep 08 13:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | wtf | Sep 08 13:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | why the fuck is rentacenter even renting computers | Sep 08 13:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats beyond stupid | Sep 08 13:32 |
| DaemonFC | no, they get Dell, HP, Sony, Compaq, etc. | Sep 08 13:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | anything that doesnt have a giant "reset to factory default" button cant be rented | Sep 08 13:32 |
| DaemonFC | if the system costs $500, they'll ultimately make about $4,000-$5,000 off it | Sep 08 13:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah I know | Sep 08 13:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | those "rent to buy" deals those kind of places have usually end up paying 2-3x more for it | Sep 08 13:33 |
| DaemonFC | they rent things out to stupid hicks with no credit who can't figure out how bad they're being screwed | Sep 08 13:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | I used to think banks who had really shitty APRs were evil | Sep 08 13:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | then I realized there were worse people in the world | Sep 08 13:33 |
| DaemonFC | Well who can't save up $500 for a computer? | Sep 08 13:34 |
| DaemonFC | if you can't save $500 for a computer, you don't need one | Sep 08 13:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah exactly | Sep 08 13:34 |
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| schestowitz | bbl | Sep 08 13:42 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] New install of Ubuntu. Added my HP Officejet 6310 and my Genicom microlaser 210 with zero effort. No driver installs. Printing in <5 mins. | Sep 08 13:50 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Hmm, further to my last message. Where is good in the UK for buying laser toner? Specifically for the Genicom/Compuprint Pagemaster 210N? | Sep 08 13:55 | |
| *tacone1 (n=Adium@151.81.139.13) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 13:58 | |
| tacone1 | schestowitz here ? | Sep 08 14:00 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] http://is.gd/324Ib || Coitada... | Sep 08 14:15 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] mousetrap caught a mouse! and just broke its leg. @arkadyrose is now looking up her small animal vet book ... | Sep 08 14:22 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] all domestic dogs descend from china and wolves were first domesticated for meat http://is.gd/327En | Sep 08 14:40 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Back to blogging... | Sep 08 15:10 | |
| trmanco | bbl | Sep 08 15:24 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] How Nathan Myhrvold's patent protection racket works in practice: http://timothyblee.com/?p=781 Slashdot submission http://is.gd/32fYf | Sep 08 16:10 | |
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| twitter1 | wow, M$ actually rewrote something. SMB2 for Vista and Windows 7 has a unique, remote BSoD flaw, http://slashdot.org/submission/1068401/Windows-7-reintroduces-remote-BSoD | Sep 08 16:34 |
| trmanco | yes | Sep 08 16:34 |
| twitter1 | Way to go! | Sep 08 16:34 |
| trmanco | yes | Sep 08 16:36 |
| trmanco | remote windows crash | Sep 08 16:36 |
| trmanco | how about that | Sep 08 16:36 |
| trmanco | and there is no patch available | Sep 08 16:36 |
| trmanco | ... | Sep 08 16:36 |
| trmanco | only a workaround | Sep 08 16:36 |
| MinceR | windblows fanboys downplaying the vulnerability in 3, 2, 1... | Sep 08 16:36 |
| twitter1 | Is this a case of malice or incompetence? My M$ Senses (TM) tell me that they rewrote it to screw Samba. It's nice of them to blow them selves up in any case. Let's label it "both" | Sep 08 16:36 |
| trmanco | samba works with vista | Sep 08 16:37 |
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| twitter1 | thanks to EU intervention | Sep 08 16:37 |
| twitter1 | work around, disable third rate file sharing protocol | Sep 08 16:37 |
| trmanco | yes | Sep 08 16:37 |
| MinceR | disable third-rate operating system | Sep 08 16:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | disable your mom | Sep 08 16:37 |
| trmanco | ah, just remove the hole os already | Sep 08 16:37 |
| twitter1 | replace OS | Sep 08 16:37 |
| trmanco | just the bios will be fine | Sep 08 16:38 |
| twitter1 | my mom is now a gnu/linux user | Sep 08 16:38 |
| trmanco | windows users have to learn the basics first :-P | Sep 08 16:38 |
| trmanco | great :D | Sep 08 16:38 |
| twitter1 | yes | Sep 08 16:38 |
| twitter1 | a cute little netbook did the trick | Sep 08 16:39 |
| twitter1 | and skype. | Sep 08 16:39 |
| twitter1 | She saw my wife using it and had to have it. It was that easy. | Sep 08 16:41 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft's latest Linux lies: http://is.gd/32jzS | Sep 08 16:48 | |
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| satipera_ | Well you can blame me for (re)starting the Boycott Novell Wikipedia page I have left a mere stub which I am sure others will add to. | Sep 08 16:56 |
| wallclimber | A very dear friend's Windows computer decided to throw up a notice that the version of XP installed was not legitimate, even though it came on the computer (many years ago) and was definitely legit. The problem ended up being some sort of spyware (besides the obvious Microsoft spyware). Got it cleaned up, but withing a very short time Windows suddenly decided not to recognize the sound card anymore. | Sep 08 16:57 |
| wallclimber | Now, my friend has asked for Ubuntu many times, and is MORE than ready to leave Windows behind. I've helped him prepare for the change as much as I can (he uses FF and OO and VLC and other alternatives to MS products). But time and time again we've tried to get some version of Linux installed on that stupid computer and have failed. In fact, it's the only computer I've worked with that I can't seem to get unWindowfied (yes, I ju | Sep 08 16:57 |
| wallclimber | st made that word up) | Sep 08 16:57 |
| twitter1 | I'm sure your vandalism will eaily be reverted, satipera. Thanks for the non contribution. | Sep 08 16:58 |
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| wallclimber | Ubuntu Live CD works on it, but installing is a mess | Sep 08 16:58 |
| twitter1 | Call your local LUG for help. | Sep 08 16:59 |
| wallclimber | we ended up putting windows back and hoping he can just get a new computer that's compatible soon...I'm feeling very defeated | Sep 08 16:59 |
| twitter1 | Yes, some hardware is like that. | Sep 08 16:59 |
| wallclimber | my local LUG meets WAY across town | Sep 08 17:00 |
| wallclimber | about 45 minutes away | Sep 08 17:00 |
| twitter1 | Pay them. | Sep 08 17:00 |
| twitter1 | They will probably come to the same conclusion you have - the hardware is toxic - but they might be able to fix it and that would be cheaper than a new computer. | Sep 08 17:00 |
| twitter1 | less wasteful too. | Sep 08 17:00 |
| wallclimber | well, after much reading yesterday, i think the problem is the video card | Sep 08 17:00 |
| twitter1 | could be | Sep 08 17:01 |
| twitter1 | bbl | Sep 08 17:01 |
| wallclimber | it's ATI Radeon 9200 series, and it just doesn't work | Sep 08 17:01 |
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| wallclimber | I think I can get a card for him that will work in his older computer for about $50 | Sep 08 17:02 |
| wallclimber | (sorry, i feel like i just hijacked the conversation, and this isn't a tech-help forum... | Sep 08 17:02 |
| wallclimber | but the whole thing just made me sooooo frustrated :) | Sep 08 17:03 |
| wallclimber | 5 more hours out of my life given to a stupid windows machine | Sep 08 17:03 |
| wallclimber | ok...i'll stop...need to get to work | Sep 08 17:04 |
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| satipera | When I (re)started the Boycott Novell Wikipedia page I had a report... | Sep 08 17:05 |
| satipera | This article may not meet the general notability guideline. Please help to establish notability by adding reliable, secondary sources about the topic. If notability cannot be established, the article is likely to be merged or deleted. This article does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. | Sep 08 17:05 |
| satipera | So I am rather hoping that those of you who know more about Wokipedia than I do can save the stub. | Sep 08 17:06 |
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| schestowitz | Hey | Sep 08 17:08 |
| _Hicham_ | hello senior schestowitz | Sep 08 17:13 |
| schestowitz | satipera: thanks for that | Sep 08 17:13 |
| schestowitz | hi, _Hicham_ | Sep 08 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Did you celeberate Labour Day in Morocco? :-p | Sep 08 17:14 |
| satipera | schestowitz, I do not know much about linux but i like the philosophy, windows refugee trying to help without causing damage. | Sep 08 17:16 |
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| schestowitz | It's saved... Future looking brighter for Bletchley Park http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1532767/future-looking-brighter-bletchley-park | Sep 08 17:18 |
| schestowitz | WT...? | Sep 08 17:21 |
| schestowitz | http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125236988735891147.html | Sep 08 17:21 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1532734/linux-backers-rally-microsoft-patents | Sep 08 17:21 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : we do not celebrate labor day today | Sep 08 17:21 |
| schestowitz | Ex -Yahoo Exec Joins AOL http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/09/08/ex-yahoo-exec-joins-aol | Sep 08 17:24 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I'm shecked you don't celebrate a US holiday | Sep 08 17:25 |
| schestowitz | *shocked! :-| | Sep 08 17:25 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : we don't like the US much in here | Sep 08 17:25 |
| schestowitz | Well, it could be worse | Sep 08 17:25 |
| schestowitz | Like in Korea | Sep 08 17:26 |
| _Hicham_ | the US helps Israel, which kills palestinians | Sep 08 17:26 |
| _Hicham_ | the US have humiliated Iraqi people | Sep 08 17:26 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft SQL Server divulges passwords http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/145015 | Sep 08 17:26 |
| schestowitz | Hole in Windows Vista and 7 allows remote reboot http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/145017 | Sep 08 17:26 |
| schestowitz | LOL | Sep 08 17:26 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: they say they protect the world | Sep 08 17:27 |
| _Hicham_ | they destroy the world | Sep 08 17:32 |
| _Hicham_ | humiliate people | Sep 08 17:32 |
| _Hicham_ | kill innocents | Sep 08 17:32 |
| _Hicham_ | look to what they have done in Iraq | Sep 08 17:32 |
| _Hicham_ | they killed babes | Sep 08 17:32 |
| _Hicham_ | and raped women | Sep 08 17:32 |
| _Hicham_ | tortured men in prisons | Sep 08 17:33 |
| _Hicham_ | is that what they call protection ? | Sep 08 17:33 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] I am tidying my office. Silica Gel packets. Keep or throw? :) (remembering of course 'DO NOT EAT') | Sep 08 17:33 | |
| *_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 08 17:34 | |
| *ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Sep 08 17:41 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Karmic Netbook Remixes: Kubuntu 1, Ubuntu 0: http://is.gd/32poc | Sep 08 17:41 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Making home made pancakes with Sophie to cheer her up after the nasty man took the bouncy castle away! | Sep 08 17:47 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.packtpub.com/article/creating-fake-pseudo-3d-imagery-images-gimp-2 | Sep 08 18:04 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Na bijna 10 lange jaren, ben ik eindelijk weer verliefd. Ben een leuke kerel op bullchat.nl tegengekomen. Het klikte meteen. | Sep 08 18:04 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Het is zo lekker om eindelijk weer eens sex te hebben en begeerd te worden. Ik was helemaal vergeten hoe dat voelde. | Sep 08 18:05 | |
| trmanco | heh | Sep 08 18:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Verder heb ik mijzelf getrakteerd op twee Linux tijdschriften: HUB's Linux Magazine http://www.linuxmag.nl en het Duitse Linux Intern. | Sep 08 18:13 | |
| schestowitz | VMFS-3, How Do I Despise Thee http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=11084 | Sep 08 18:33 |
| schestowitz | Classic: Matrix Desktop (21,181 views) < http://blog.prashanthellina.com/2007/08/22/matrix-desktop/ > | Sep 08 18:34 |
| schestowitz | kde4 does new slideshows as wallpaper, one for each screen independently if need be. | Sep 08 18:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] My new desktop (screenshot): http://bit.ly/LrBnF | Sep 08 18:37 | |
| schestowitz | BPI are liars. Music industry cooks UK government's piracy stats < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/04/sabip_7m_stat_sponsored_by_bpi/ > | Sep 08 18:40 |
| *schestowitz removes ban on *!*@CPE-58-164-20-56.nsw.bigpond.net.au | Sep 08 18:46 | |
| *schestowitz removes ban on *!*@24-107-56-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com | Sep 08 18:46 | |
| schestowitz | 8 Useful and Interesting Bash Prompts < http://maketecheasier.com/8-useful-and-interesting-bash-prompts/2009/09/04 > | Sep 08 18:50 |
| schestowitz | More kde4 goodness | Sep 08 18:50 |
| schestowitz | http://bigbrovar.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/the-ultimate-blogging-client-for-linux/ | Sep 08 18:51 |
| schestowitz | I gave it a shot yesterday.. | Sep 08 18:51 |
| *wallclimber (n=ozma@ip98-165-33-243.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 18:52 | |
| trmanco | how was it? | Sep 08 18:54 |
| schestowitz | Hey, wallclimber | Sep 08 18:56 |
| schestowitz | Good job with that friend.. | Sep 08 18:56 |
| schestowitz | Some rare hardware can be hostile | Sep 08 18:56 |
| wallclimber | yeah, it was a frustrating day | Sep 08 18:56 |
| schestowitz | I've never met such hardware, but still, I occasionally heard about | Sep 08 18:56 |
| schestowitz | it | Sep 08 18:57 |
| schestowitz | a | Sep 08 18:57 |
| schestowitz | A friend has some advanced nvidia GPU and he reported some difficulties with Ubuntu because of that. | Sep 08 18:57 |
| wallclimber | i guess, if a person installs stuff for other people often enough, a bad experience is bound to happen eventually | Sep 08 18:57 |
| wallclimber | this was an ATI card | Sep 08 18:57 |
| schestowitz | It was a real LABOUR day, eh? | Sep 08 18:57 |
| schestowitz | ATI. Yuck | Sep 08 18:57 |
| schestowitz | At least it has FOSS drivers | Sep 08 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Some 3d, too | Sep 08 18:58 |
| wallclimber | he he, very funny roy :) | Sep 08 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Labour day makes me think of people sweating down the brow | Sep 08 18:58 |
| wallclimber | no, it had no drivers at all | Sep 08 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Like SLave Day | Sep 08 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Labour can be slavery to some | Sep 08 18:58 |
| schestowitz | "Wage slavery" | Sep 08 18:58 |
| schestowitz | Keyboards rather than chains | Sep 08 18:58 |
| wallclimber | i pulled it from the case and tried just using the onboard video, but | Sep 08 18:58 |
| wallclimber | it was soooo bad it was unusable | Sep 08 18:58 |
| schestowitz | I really enjoys my jobs doing GPL stuff, though | Sep 08 18:59 |
| schestowitz | *enjoyed | Sep 08 18:59 |
| schestowitz | trmanco and I have just reported a bug in an alpha of konversation | Sep 08 18:59 |
| wallclimber | i usually do, but this friend is a very dear one, and i soooo hoped to be able to dazzle him with my amazing tech skills - lol | Sep 08 18:59 |
| schestowitz | It's a really good program | Sep 08 18:59 |
| trmanco | ok | Sep 08 19:00 |
| schestowitz | Today I put a drawing of mine from when I was like 7 as background picture in konversation | Sep 08 19:00 |
| schestowitz | http://bigbrovar.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/the-ultimate-blogging-client-for-linux/ | Sep 08 19:00 |
| wallclimber | i ended up pulling the new kubuntu drive off and putting the ubuntu drive back so i could work today | Sep 08 19:00 |
| schestowitz | Might be useful to you, wallclimber | Sep 08 19:00 |
| schestowitz | Cause you blog on a service hosted) | Sep 08 19:00 |
| schestowitz | *(hosted) | Sep 08 19:01 |
| wallclimber | (i'm looking at it now) | Sep 08 19:01 |
| *schestowitz sees it has just begun raining. Good thing schestowitz left in the morning | Sep 08 19:02 | |
| wallclimber | that looks nice, i'm going to try it out | Sep 08 19:03 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: http://bit.ly/LrBnF | Sep 08 19:03 |
| schestowitz | See what has snuck into the screenshot. omg! ponies | Sep 08 19:03 |
| schestowitz | Ga. pastor shot and killed in botched drug raid http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2009/09/04/ga-pastor-shot-and-killed-in-botched-drug-raid/ | Sep 08 19:03 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] Xbox 360 'least reliable' console http://bit.ly/4cF4WL | Sep 08 19:03 | |
| wallclimber | lol ponies!! | Sep 08 19:04 |
| schestowitz | Ashcroft may be held liable for those wrongfully detained after 9/11 < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/09/04/ashcroft-may-be-held.html > | Sep 08 19:05 |
| wallclimber | argh...phone's ringing, must get back to work... | Sep 08 19:05 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: still there hanging... waiting for me to do s/t w/ it | Sep 08 19:05 |
| schestowitz | Symantec Goes Under the Hood of Waledac Botnet < http://securitywatch.eweek.com/botnets/symantec_goes_under_the_hood_of_waledac_botnet.html > | Sep 08 19:05 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] _Goblin: http://bit.ly/X0OXU Your tuft. no? | Sep 08 19:08 | |
| *sebsebseb (n=sebastia@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 19:09 | |
| sebsebseb | hi | Sep 08 19:09 |
| trmanco | hello | Sep 08 19:09 |
| sebsebseb | trmanco: hi | Sep 08 19:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] _Goblin: also: Desktops & Notebooks: Commodore 64: A Look Back at a Geek's First PC < http://ur1.ca/bbxj > | Sep 08 19:09 | |
| *sebsebseb is now known as sebsebsebseb | Sep 08 19:10 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @_Goblin: sorry, forgot the @ symbol. See previous items. | Sep 08 19:10 | |
| *sebsebsebseb is now known as sebsebseb | Sep 08 19:11 | |
| schestowitz | Crime expert backs calls for 'licence to compute' < http://www.itnews.com.au/News/154129,crime-expert-backs-calls-for-licence-to-compute.aspx > | Sep 08 19:12 |
| schestowitz | Hi, sebsebseb | Sep 08 19:12 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: Hi Roy | Sep 08 19:12 |
| schestowitz | Web licence.. show your Notron/AVG skillz | Sep 08 19:12 |
| schestowitz | I'd fail at it. | Sep 08 19:12 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: what's this? | Sep 08 19:12 |
| schestowitz | See url | Sep 08 19:13 |
| schestowitz | Lawyers, families say 5 girls strip-searched at school < http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090905/NEWS/909050337/-1/SPORTS09 > | Sep 08 19:13 |
| schestowitz | Keep it klassy... where are they going? Must be terror~1 girls. | Sep 08 19:13 |
| wallclimber | it's funny, when my youngest son first started teaching me to build my own computers, he told me the first two essential things i needed to learn how to do, if i were to get involved with computer work, was to cuss and to drink beer | Sep 08 19:14 |
| schestowitz | Some girl loses a 100-dollar bill | Sep 08 19:14 |
| schestowitz | Then stripping is justified | Sep 08 19:14 |
| wallclimber | i can cuss with creative flair...still can't drink beer tho | Sep 08 19:14 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: sounds like the Linux Outlaws doctrine | Sep 08 19:15 |
| schestowitz | fabs | Sep 08 19:15 |
| schestowitz | I never curse the computer | Sep 08 19:15 |
| schestowitz | It would have to do something annoying | Sep 08 19:15 |
| wallclimber | so, what was your first computer? | Sep 08 19:15 |
| schestowitz | A few times a year knode may crash | Sep 08 19:15 |
| schestowitz | Now, that's annoying as it would lead to some metadata not being there on the next run, but it's a rare occurence | Sep 08 19:16 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: me? maybe others can answer too | Sep 08 19:16 |
| wallclimber | yes, i'd be interested in others saying too, most definitely | Sep 08 19:16 |
| schestowitz | 286 with a CGA.. my dad bought it for me when I was 7 | Sep 08 19:16 |
| schestowitz | What about trmanco? | Sep 08 19:17 |
| schestowitz | He's the youngest here, I thin | Sep 08 19:17 |
| schestowitz | *think | Sep 08 19:17 |
| schestowitz | SOme people are born into Pentiums and stuff. | Sep 08 19:17 |
| trmanco | an IBM [can't remember] with a P1 | Sep 08 19:17 |
| schestowitz | Verizon defends setting broadband measurement bar so low < http://arstechnica.com/telecom/news/2009/09/ouch-verizon-defends-setting-broadband-bar-low.ars > | Sep 08 19:18 |
| trmanco | it was very limited | Sep 08 19:18 |
| trmanco | I was about 8 years old | Sep 08 19:18 |
| schestowitz | Does anyone remember that p<something> who was top user at Digg.com? | Sep 08 19:18 |
| schestowitz | He quit in anger | Sep 08 19:18 |
| schestowitz | Something over the management changing things | Sep 08 19:18 |
| wallclimber | the first one i built for myself was a VP6, dual PIII processor board, with 1GB ram, it was a joy | Sep 08 19:18 |
| schestowitz | That's history now | Sep 08 19:18 |
| schestowitz | is BabyBoy still #1 user there? | Sep 08 19:18 |
| wallclimber | my son airbrushed blue flames on the case, i still have it, it still runs | Sep 08 19:18 |
| *schestowitz does not have a son yet :-|| | Sep 08 19:19 | |
| wallclimber | my youngest is 38 years old :) | Sep 08 19:19 |
| trmanco | :) | Sep 08 19:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6603599.html | Sep 08 19:19 |
| wallclimber | he's an engineer | Sep 08 19:20 |
| *proteus (n=notranc@zima.linwin.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 19:20 | |
| schestowitz | wallclimber: me too !! | Sep 08 19:22 |
| schestowitz | (software) engineer | Sep 08 19:22 |
| schestowitz | Post-Vista Windows flaw creates Blue Screen risk | Sep 08 19:23 |
| schestowitz | * Track this topic | Sep 08 19:23 |
| schestowitz | * Print story | Sep 08 19:23 |
| schestowitz | * Post comment | Sep 08 19:23 |
| schestowitz | BSOD it | Sep 08 19:23 |
| schestowitz | Post-Vista Windows flaw creates Blue Screen risk | Sep 08 19:23 |
| schestowitz | * Track this topic | Sep 08 19:23 |
| schestowitz | * Print story | Sep 08 19:23 |
| schestowitz | * Post comment | Sep 08 19:23 |
| schestowitz | BSOD it | Sep 08 19:24 |
| schestowitz | Drat | Sep 08 19:24 |
| schestowitz | Konv doesn't paste well | Sep 08 19:24 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/08/win_bsod_0day/ | Sep 08 19:24 |
| schestowitz | How long before there's a downloadable "Nuke" tool? | Sep 08 19:24 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: copy and paste isn't a problem for me in Konversation | Sep 08 19:24 |
| schestowitz | One that you can aim at someone with an ip address to crasht he PC? | Sep 08 19:24 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: it's like other apps | Sep 08 19:24 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: no, it's just different from xchat | Sep 08 19:24 |
| sebsebseb | how so? | Sep 08 19:24 |
| schestowitz | xhcat stores newlines before posting | Sep 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | It shows them as a symbol | Sep 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | konv just fires away line by line | Sep 08 19:25 |
| sebsebseb | oh I am not sure what any of that means | Sep 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: | Sep 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | <schestowitz> ------- Comment #1 From Eike Hein 2009-08-18 21:37:40 ------- | Sep 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | [18:55] <schestowitz> This is a known problem (and the main reason it still carries the "alpha"l | Sep 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | [18:55] <schestowitz> label) that will be resolved before the 1.2 release. | Sep 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | [18:55] <schestowitz> *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 192499 *** | Sep 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | [18:55] <schestowitz> ------- Comment #2 From Roy Schestowitz 2009-09-08 19:03:48 ------- | Sep 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | [18:55] <schestowitz> Confirmed by two more users here. Alpha 6 of 1.2 (Kubuntu 9.10 alpha 5). | Sep 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=204331 | Sep 08 19:25 |
| sebsebseb | ah ok | Sep 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Separate issue | Sep 08 19:25 |
| schestowitz | Not a big deal | Sep 08 19:26 |
| schestowitz | I highlight text until it's resolved (final version) | Sep 08 19:26 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/08/firefox_4_0_2010_arrival/ "Mozilla won't release the next significant upgrade of Firefox until the final quarter of 2010." | Sep 08 19:26 |
| sebsebseb | oh | Sep 08 19:27 |
| sebsebseb | well that's a bit sucky then | Sep 08 19:27 |
| schestowitz | IWF chief: 'No room for moral agendas' http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/08/iwf_perter_robbins_interview/ | Sep 08 19:27 |
| sebsebseb | Firefox 4.0 then | Sep 08 19:27 |
| schestowitz | I use Firefox as secondary now | Sep 08 19:27 |
| schestowitz | For plguins mostly | Sep 08 19:27 |
| schestowitz | And for blogging | Sep 08 19:27 |
| sebsebseb | opensource/freesoftware for the popular projects tend to have fast development, but if Firefox 4.0 is coming out in the final quarter of 2010, well that's not exactly fast development and releases | Sep 08 19:28 |
| schestowitz | Foxconn working on 'sub-£100' ARM-based Linux netbooks http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/09/08/foxconn_cheap_arm_netbooks/ | Sep 08 19:28 |
| schestowitz | w00t | Sep 08 19:28 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: well it's still the one we should be promoting and converting people to I think, because it's the one with most market share after IE | Sep 08 19:28 |
| schestowitz | 'swing voters' of Firefox would not go back to ie | Sep 08 19:29 |
| sebsebseb | there are still some web developers that only make for IE, and if Firefox has a big enough market share, they will start making for Firefox as well I guess | Sep 08 19:29 |
| schestowitz | Enlightened users left msie for good | Sep 08 19:29 |
| sebsebseb | also if your going around on the web using Epiphany or Galeon or other less known browsers, how many web developers that actsaully bother checking their website statistics, know about them, and know which rendering engine they use | Sep 08 19:30 |
| sebsebseb | really the most used rendering engine dictates, what happens to the web | Sep 08 19:31 |
| schestowitz | Is it possible to change ui font size in firefox? | Sep 08 19:31 |
| sebsebseb | which unfortunatly at the moment is still MSHTML/Trident, because of that horrible IE browser | Sep 08 19:31 |
| schestowitz | I could do this in Firefox 1 | Sep 08 19:31 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: I don't know, maybe a setting some where for it or in about:config or an add on | Sep 08 19:33 |
| sebsebseb | when you said plugins earlier did you mean addons/extensions ? | Sep 08 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, but that's tricky | Sep 08 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Yes, extensions | Sep 08 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Used to be called other things, iirc | Sep 08 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Then they unified themes and plguins | Sep 08 19:34 |
| sebsebseb | indeed Firefox has many addons/extensions and a lot of them are pretty good | Sep 08 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Or something like that | Sep 08 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Now they have separate menus, too | Sep 08 19:34 |
| sebsebseb | however even so I tend to run Firefox these days without any add ons, and well that's been quite a while now | Sep 08 19:34 |
| schestowitz | I think it used to be unified | Sep 08 19:35 |
| schestowitz | I still hold on to some XUL extensions from Firefox 0.9 | Sep 08 19:35 |
| schestowitz | ANyway, the fonts are too large in the UI | Sep 08 19:35 |
| sebsebseb | altough there are like addons, so you know which countrey a website is hosted in for example, and well that's nice | Sep 08 19:35 |
| schestowitz | Maybe some GTK setting | Sep 08 19:35 |
| schestowitz | I'll have a look | Sep 08 19:35 |
| schestowitz | Same in Thunderbird | Sep 08 19:35 |
| sebsebseb | most of the websites I visit are American it seems | Sep 08 19:36 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: What kind of add ons do you use in Firefox? and when not using Firefox what do you use? | Sep 08 19:37 |
| schestowitz | ThunderBrowse | Sep 08 19:38 |
| sebsebseb | What's that? | Sep 08 19:38 |
| schestowitz | KDE tries to wrap GTK+ | Sep 08 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Which it does | Sep 08 19:38 |
| sebsebseb | meaning? | Sep 08 19:38 |
| schestowitz | But it makes the fonts quite big | Sep 08 19:38 |
| schestowitz | And makes it hard to change this | Sep 08 19:38 |
| sebsebseb | oh your using KDE 4 not Gnome | Sep 08 19:39 |
| sebsebseb | I use Konversation in Gnome :) | Sep 08 19:39 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: keep it simple stupid, as the saying goes, yep that's what Gnome is :) | Sep 08 19:40 |
| sebsebseb | KDE is more bloated and such | Sep 08 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Not sure | Sep 08 19:40 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: not sure about what? | Sep 08 19:40 |
| schestowitz | kde4 is lighter than kde3 based on my experience | Sep 08 19:40 |
| schestowitz | GNOME and kde3 were comparable | Sep 08 19:40 |
| sebsebseb | bloated I meant features | Sep 08 19:40 |
| schestowitz | System resources-wise | Sep 08 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Yes, got that | Sep 08 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Bloated for "features".. | Sep 08 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Depends on levels of abstraction/complexity | Sep 08 19:41 |
| schestowitz | It was improved in v4 | Sep 08 19:41 |
| sebsebseb | KDE 3 could look more like Windows | Sep 08 19:41 |
| sebsebseb | by default or nearly default whatever the distros are doing | Sep 08 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Rookies need not bother with advanced options | Sep 08 19:41 |
| sebsebseb | menu at the bottom that kind of thing | Sep 08 19:41 |
| schestowitz | But the power is still here | Sep 08 19:41 |
| sebsebseb | where as Gnome has it's top and bottom panals by default | Sep 08 19:41 |
| trmanco | sebsebseb: move it the top | Sep 08 19:41 |
| trmanco | ... | Sep 08 19:41 |
| trmanco | or add two of them | Sep 08 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Or 8\ | Sep 08 19:42 |
| trmanco | you are free to day what the hell you want with your desktop | Sep 08 19:42 |
| schestowitz | I used to have 6 | Sep 08 19:42 |
| sebsebseb | trmanco: yep | Sep 08 19:42 |
| schestowitz | 3 on each screen | Sep 08 19:42 |
| sebsebseb | and I don't use KDE 4 as my GUI, since it doesn't look like KDE 3 | Sep 08 19:42 |
| schestowitz | THat was in SuSE | Sep 08 19:42 |
| trmanco | just because it looks like windows doesn't mean it's like windows | Sep 08 19:42 |
| sebsebseb | and it seems I would have to customize quite a few things, before I would like KDE 4 more and then maybe run it as my GUI | Sep 08 19:42 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: by default | Sep 08 19:42 |
| schestowitz | keyword/term "by default" | Sep 08 19:42 |
| schestowitz | It can be made to have OS X-like menu | Sep 08 19:43 |
| trmanco | yes | Sep 08 19:43 |
| schestowitz | And panels can be changed | Sep 08 19:43 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: KDE 3 seems more nice by default | Sep 08 19:43 |
| schestowitz | I haven't tried lancelot yet !! | Sep 08 19:43 |
| sebsebseb | well depending on distro | Sep 08 19:43 |
| sebsebseb | Kubuntu KDE 3 yes that's nice :) | Sep 08 19:43 |
| trmanco | I actually started in gnome because it was different from windows | Sep 08 19:43 |
| sebsebseb | Knoppix last time I tried it with KDE 3 was yep nice | Sep 08 19:43 |
| sebsebseb | PCLinuxOS 2007 or whatever I did in a vm, that KDE 3 was not nice by default | Sep 08 19:43 |
| trmanco | I was so damn sick of that crap that I couldn't stand the looks anymore | Sep 08 19:44 |
| trmanco | and because I had a little more experience with gnome | Sep 08 19:44 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/090809-foxconn-developing-inexpensive-arm-based.html?fsrc=rss-linux-news | Sep 08 19:44 |
| schestowitz | "Foxconn Technology plans to launch its first smartbooks next year, which are mini-laptops that use microprocessors from Arm Holdings normally found in smartphones." | Sep 08 19:44 |
| trmanco | before I made the change I only had a couple of hours of experience with kde, and it was v3 | Sep 08 19:45 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: I don't like the default Xubuntu XFCE set up either, but then I vm'd something, and I was like, wow this is one nice default XFCE | Sep 08 19:45 |
| sebsebseb | I was thinking, I didn't reolize XFCE could be this nice | Sep 08 19:45 |
| sebsebseb | or something like that | Sep 08 19:45 |
| sebsebseb | trmanco: exactly people that go Linux a lot of them, want something that doesn't look like Windows | Sep 08 19:46 |
| wallclimber | trmanco: it's funny you'd say that about gnome. coming from windows i found gnome very easy to use and didn't have a hard time changing from win | Sep 08 19:47 |
| trmanco | yes, that was my first impression too | Sep 08 19:47 |
| trmanco | wallclimber: what do you mean? | Sep 08 19:47 |
| sebsebseb | Gnome lacks a background changer :( | Sep 08 19:47 |
| trmanco | I didn't say anything bad about gnome | Sep 08 19:47 |
| wallclimber | the new kde looks very different to me, i'm looking forward to customizing it | Sep 08 19:47 |
| sebsebseb | KDE 3 has one, and 4 I think yeah if I remember correctly | Sep 08 19:47 |
| sebsebseb | random background changer, where it can change after a minute or so | Sep 08 19:48 |
| sebsebseb | tried to get some program for this, but didn't get far with that | Sep 08 19:48 |
| wallclimber | well, you said kde looked too much like windows | Sep 08 19:48 |
| sebsebseb | Gnome with a background changer built in would be :) | Sep 08 19:48 |
| wallclimber | i found gnome to be a lot like windows, as far as learning to use it | Sep 08 19:48 |
| sebsebseb | wallclimber: I found KDE 3 by default, to be similar to Windows, but more advanced | Sep 08 19:49 |
| sebsebseb | the default look with the menu at the bottom is like Windows yes | Sep 08 19:49 |
| wallclimber | ok, i understand :) | Sep 08 19:49 |
| trmanco | wallclimber: yes, it looks more like windows than gnome (defaults), but then gnome has gconf, something similar to the crap windows registry | Sep 08 19:49 |
| sebsebseb | wallclimber: Gnome is nice and keep it simple stupid :) and it does not look like Windows :D | Sep 08 19:49 |
| trmanco | yes, you are also right that the internals of gnome seem like windows | Sep 08 19:50 |
| sebsebseb | unless you theme it to look like Windows of course | Sep 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | sebsebseb: yes, bg changer for gnome is one I yearned for as well | Sep 08 19:50 |
| sebsebseb | oh there's some vm, which is very Windows like | Sep 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | I wrote about this back when using UBuntu 4.10 at work | Sep 08 19:50 |
| trmanco | sebsebseb: it's KISS now | Sep 08 19:50 |
| trmanco | wait until 3 | Sep 08 19:50 |
| sebsebseb | vm I meant wm | Sep 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | They STILL don't have that | Sep 08 19:50 |
| *trmanco bloat away | Sep 08 19:50 | |
| wallclimber | i never ever again want anything that looks like windows | Sep 08 19:50 |
| schestowitz | How come we don't say what WINDOWS looks like? | Sep 08 19:51 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: yeah surely it woudn't be that hard for the Gnome devs, to program one in? | Sep 08 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Is it assumed that Windows it the source of inpiration | Sep 08 19:51 |
| schestowitz | ? | Sep 08 19:51 |
| schestowitz | What about Apple's 'ripoff' of GUIs in other OSes? | Sep 08 19:51 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: well they say that Windows 3.1 looked like Mac OS 9 or whatever it was at the time | Sep 08 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Should one also assume "A:" is a WIndows thing? | Sep 08 19:51 |
| schestowitz | it's not | Sep 08 19:51 |
| sebsebseb | and the OS 9 or whatever GUI like something else | Sep 08 19:51 |
| sebsebseb | or whatever they say | Sep 08 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Microosft just poplularises many things | Sep 08 19:51 |
| schestowitz | Same for Apple and Dock... not their invention | Sep 08 19:51 |
| schestowitz | They patened a *GOSH* Focus in Dock | Sep 08 19:52 |
| schestowitz | Yeah... like no-one could figure THAT out | Sep 08 19:52 |
| wallclimber | windows looks like everybody's grandkids - lol - every windows computer that i've had to clean up has had giant pictures of people's grandkids as wallpaper and screensavers...if i never see another giant baby picture it'll be too soon | Sep 08 19:52 |
| schestowitz | i'll patent the zoom OUT function on the menu | Sep 08 19:52 |
| schestowitz | Not that it's useful | Sep 08 19:52 |
| schestowitz | But it's an INNOVA~1 | Sep 08 19:52 |
| schestowitz | Mine mine mine !! | Sep 08 19:52 |
| sebsebseb | wallclimber: yep Windows and OS X aimed at the average consumer, in this context, the types of people that are going to put family photos and stuff like that, as their desktop background | Sep 08 19:53 |
| wallclimber | the rest of it just looks institutional, like a prison | Sep 08 19:53 |
| schestowitz | "average consumer,..." | Sep 08 19:53 |
| schestowitz | Sounds like an ad | Sep 08 19:53 |
| schestowitz | Or marketing people | Sep 08 19:53 |
| schestowitz | "average consumer, " | Sep 08 19:53 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: heh | Sep 08 19:53 |
| schestowitz | "Unwashed masses" | Sep 08 19:53 |
| wallclimber | except for the stupid search dog in xp...i have killed many of those in spite of the protests of its owners | Sep 08 19:54 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: well normally when I say that and am talking computers, I mean computer ignorants | Sep 08 19:54 |
| wallclimber | hate the dog | Sep 08 19:54 |
| schestowitz | Let the average "Consumer" consume the OS witha straw | Sep 08 19:54 |
| schestowitz | Would they like a napkin witn that ?/ | Sep 08 19:54 |
| schestowitz | "Consumer" implied producers | Sep 08 19:55 |
| schestowitz | No peers | Sep 08 19:55 |
| wallclimber | i hate the term "consumer" - i've never eaten software | Sep 08 19:55 |
| schestowitz | As if, 'the people' versus 'the authority" | Sep 08 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Free software is different | Sep 08 19:55 |
| wallclimber | the cds hurt my teeth | Sep 08 19:55 |
| schestowitz | We speak to developers, e.g. in kde.org | Sep 08 19:55 |
| schestowitz | In Microsoft, decisions come from abive | Sep 08 19:55 |
| schestowitz | I.e. bosses | Sep 08 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Not users | Sep 08 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Bosses include MPAA and RIAA | Sep 08 19:55 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: yeah that sounds basically right, "average computer consumer" tends to = computer ignorant, the ones that buy what the companies give them, so that's Windows or Mac OS X maybe, Microsoft Office etc, and then they never really think twice about it, they just use it | Sep 08 19:55 |
| schestowitz | E.g. DRM antuifetures | Sep 08 19:55 |
| schestowitz | *antifeatures | Sep 08 19:55 |
| wallclimber | ahhh mob bosses! | Sep 08 19:55 |
| wallclimber | :) | Sep 08 19:56 |
| schestowitz | Roy loves consuming the PC | Sep 08 19:56 |
| schestowitz | It never ends | Sep 08 19:56 |
| wallclimber | well, the office is deterirating into chaos here...i better go fire someone lol take care everyone | Sep 08 19:56 |
| schestowitz | The only consumption is that of electricity really | Sep 08 19:56 |
| *wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Sep 08 19:57 | |
| schestowitz | ANd other transmissions from wires like Ethernet | Sep 08 19:57 |
| sebsebseb | well not everyone is into computers, but they do matter, and they do pretty much control the world, and that's been years now | Sep 08 19:57 |
| schestowitz | They lose some control | Sep 08 19:57 |
| schestowitz | See newspapers | Sep 08 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Like the Murdoch monopolies | Sep 08 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Never say never | Sep 08 19:57 |
| schestowitz | They feel the pain | Sep 08 19:57 |
| schestowitz | They want ACTA and stuff now | Sep 08 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Cause they lose their status quo | Sep 08 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Internet empowers opposition and brings it together | Sep 08 19:58 |
| sebsebseb | it's ashame that most computer users aren't interested in them enough, resulting in them being pretty ignorant at them, to the extent where their computer is probably not secure enough | Sep 08 19:59 |
| sebsebseb | oh and anti virus companies and that, take advantage of it | Sep 08 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Crackers too | Sep 08 19:59 |
| sebsebseb | rather than actsually tell people how they can keep Windows (or maybe other OS's even as well,) rather secure | Sep 08 19:59 |
| sebsebseb | in fact if you know what your doing, you can keep Windows secure enough, without needing an antivirus or antispyware | Sep 08 20:00 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: botnets etc yeah | Sep 08 20:01 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: I think a lot of people see a computer as a consumer device, that just works, untill it doesn't anymore, and that's also an issue. Computers like cars are meant to be looked after a bit. They aren't like a TV, where it just works, untill the hardaware fails. | Sep 08 20:02 |
| sebsebseb | well this is obvious knowledge to us, but not them, which is the problem | Sep 08 20:03 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: What was that about Murdoch? | Sep 08 20:04 |
| schestowitz | They don't view it that way | Sep 08 20:07 |
| schestowitz | People that I speak to anyway | Sep 08 20:07 |
| schestowitz | They don't know what an OS it | Sep 08 20:07 |
| schestowitz | *is | Sep 08 20:07 |
| schestowitz | They just assume Windows is part of each computers | Sep 08 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Because Microsoft trains them to think that way | Sep 08 20:07 |
| schestowitz | This is why Microsoft goes to great lengths to forbig Linux from being displayed at sotre floors | Sep 08 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Keep the public ignorantr about choices | Sep 08 20:08 |
| schestowitz | They'll choose between hardware, that's it | Sep 08 20:08 |
| schestowitz | The illusion of choice | Sep 08 20:08 |
| schestowitz | Just Dell vs HP vs whoever | Sep 08 20:08 |
| schestowitz | And Windows being unquestionable a 'choice' | Sep 08 20:08 |
| sebsebseb | schestowitz: true a lot of people don't know what an OS is, and they might ask something like, What would you rather have a PC or a Mac? | Sep 08 20:11 |
| sebsebseb | thinking PC = Windows | Sep 08 20:11 |
| sebsebseb | Mac = whatever they run | Sep 08 20:11 |
| schestowitz | PC is another deception | Sep 08 20:11 |
| sebsebseb | not reolizing there's something called Linux, which will run on both | Sep 08 20:11 |
| schestowitz | As if <not Mac>=WIndows | Sep 08 20:11 |
| schestowitz | And people don't know what dual-boot is | Sep 08 20:11 |
| sebsebseb | yep and in the shops | Sep 08 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft relies a lot on igrance, not just racketeering | Sep 08 20:12 |
| sebsebseb | PC Games | Sep 08 20:12 |
| sebsebseb | ,but really they mean Windows games | Sep 08 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Linux runs WIndows games too | Sep 08 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Windows does not run Linux games | Sep 08 20:12 |
| sebsebseb | yep in Wine | Sep 08 20:12 |
| sebsebseb | Apple rely on ignorance to | Sep 08 20:13 |
| sebsebseb | they talk about PC's having viruses | Sep 08 20:13 |
| sebsebseb | for example | Sep 08 20:13 |
| sebsebseb | they might mention Windows in marketting, but of course they won't Linux | Sep 08 20:14 |
| sebsebseb | or BSD etc | Sep 08 20:14 |
| sebsebseb | and loads of people think Mac OS X is so great, or Macs as in the hardware and software, but what they don't know is that Mac OS X uses a lot of opensource/freesoftware and the Mac hardware is really pretty similar to a PC, espeesilly now with Intel proccessors | Sep 08 20:16 |
| sebsebseb | really really a Mac is a PC? just a differnet type | Sep 08 20:16 |
| sebsebseb | well really above | Sep 08 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Open Source but no Open Mind < http://wamukota.blogspot.com/2009/09/open-source-but-no-open-mind.html > | Sep 08 20:17 |
| schestowitz | Yes, Macs are PCs | Sep 08 20:17 |
| schestowitz | But with names and logos for elitists | Sep 08 20:17 |
| schestowitz | They pay more, they feel like they are worth more | Sep 08 20:17 |
| sebsebseb | well people that don't computers that well, buy them as well these days, to get away from the Windows viruses for example | Sep 08 20:18 |
| sebsebseb | that don't know computers that well above | Sep 08 20:18 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♻ @cenourinha: Alguém tem um fato de Tux? Quero ir a uma Windows 7 Launch Party... || LOOOL | Sep 08 20:19 | |
| MinceR | macs are shoddy pcs | Sep 08 20:20 |
| MinceR | with a shoddy os | Sep 08 20:20 |
| MinceR | for people with shoddy minds | Sep 08 20:20 |
| MinceR | "I guess it's never too early to introduce a major fire hazard into your home..." | Sep 08 20:21 |
| schestowitz | Turns out other people use this too :-) : http://aplawrence.com/Girish/xbindkeys.html | Sep 08 20:28 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: let's not exaggerate | Sep 08 20:28 |
| schestowitz | Mac hardware is not the worst | Sep 08 20:28 |
| MinceR | i didn't say it was the worst | Sep 08 20:28 |
| schestowitz | Benchmarks say it's mediocae | Sep 08 20:29 |
| MinceR | it's shoddy. | Sep 08 20:29 |
| schestowitz | Error-prine | Sep 08 20:29 |
| schestowitz | *prone | Sep 08 20:29 |
| schestowitz | More than many others | Sep 08 20:29 |
| MinceR | they add all sorts of "innovations" which then proceed to break in a bad way. | Sep 08 20:29 |
| MinceR | like the "MagSafe" connector. | Sep 08 20:29 |
| schestowitz | As to the software that's saddled to this Intel (chairty-killing monopolist) hardware, it's Free BSD with a reuse and rehashed theme | Sep 08 20:29 |
| MinceR | btw the quote was from Postal2. :> | Sep 08 20:29 |
| schestowitz | They don't even use zfs anymor!! | Sep 08 20:29 |
| schestowitz | And Linux already has btrfs | Sep 08 20:29 |
| schestowitz | "better fs' | Sep 08 20:30 |
| MinceR | yeah, i was going to say "which is btr" | Sep 08 20:30 |
| schestowitz | Apple claims to have innovated icon zoom | Sep 08 20:30 |
| MinceR | which is a misfeature | Sep 08 20:30 |
| schestowitz | They sure (SURE SURE) are too busy innovating | Sep 08 20:30 |
| MinceR | you can't tell the area you need to click ahead of time | Sep 08 20:30 |
| schestowitz | And many regular customer nod | Sep 08 20:30 |
| MinceR | that's all it does | Sep 08 20:30 |
| schestowitz | *mers | Sep 08 20:30 |
| MinceR | crApple, the "masters" of "usability" | Sep 08 20:31 |
| MinceR | they don't know anything about usability | Sep 08 20:31 |
| schestowitz | When I last used it the button missed some buttons | Sep 08 20:31 |
| schestowitz | Actually both in OS 9 and 10 | Sep 08 20:31 |
| schestowitz | They have crippled mice | Sep 08 20:31 |
| MinceR | that too | Sep 08 20:31 |
| schestowitz | They could use a cluestick | Sep 08 20:31 |
| MinceR | useless gimmicks all the way | Sep 08 20:31 |
| MinceR | no, their customers could use a cluestick | Sep 08 20:31 |
| schestowitz | I tried to use Firefox | Sep 08 20:31 |
| schestowitz | But many essentials were castrated | Sep 08 20:32 |
| MinceR | what crApple does works for them because there are more than enough idiots who buy that crap | Sep 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | The PC was well designed though | Sep 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | the Apple _PC_ that is | Sep 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | Nice designers they have | Sep 08 20:32 |
| MinceR | when? | Sep 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | Nice-looking icons and all | Sep 08 20:32 |
| MinceR | what was well designed about it? | Sep 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | Lifestyle.. | Sep 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | Development -- not so much | Sep 08 20:32 |
| MinceR | (remember, not only the exterior of the case matters.) | Sep 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: it's kind of elegant | Sep 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | ANd unique (the design) | Sep 08 20:32 |
| schestowitz | iPod family looks nice too (the casing) | Sep 08 20:33 |
| MinceR | oh, i have a nice motivator about being unique | Sep 08 20:33 |
| MinceR | no, most hypePods look like shit | Sep 08 20:33 |
| schestowitz | The components and peripherals may be mediocare, but nobody sees those | Sep 08 20:33 |
| schestowitz | Apple is the company that masters pigs&lipstick basically | Sep 08 20:33 |
| MinceR | if it had a chinese brand/logo on it, nobody would even notice them | Sep 08 20:33 |
| schestowitz | They could pick Linux and put lots of lipstick | Sep 08 20:33 |
| schestowitz | They would get more mileage too | Sep 08 20:33 |
| schestowitz | But they could exploit it | Sep 08 20:33 |
| MinceR | http://www.vectronixhq.de/wp-content/2007/04/unique-wwwdespaircom.jpg | Sep 08 20:34 |
| schestowitz | Had they build OS X on Linux they would have better virt, fs, security, etc. | Sep 08 20:34 |
| MinceR | indeed | Sep 08 20:34 |
| schestowitz | Instead they nick what they need | Sep 08 20:34 |
| schestowitz | khtml too | Sep 08 20:34 |
| MinceR | but then they'd have to share their stuff with people they think are uncool | Sep 08 20:34 |
| schestowitz | "Ooooh. That's a nice engine you got there..." | Sep 08 20:34 |
| schestowitz | "I can haz khtml??" | Sep 08 20:34 |
| MinceR | even let other people -- people with actual clue, engineers -- into their design process | Sep 08 20:34 |
| MinceR | steve "control freak" jobs can't have that, you see | Sep 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | Then they toss it into a proggy called after animal parks | Sep 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | ANd put as little as possible buttom-wise | Sep 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | Chrome is similar in that regard | Sep 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | They use webkit too | Sep 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | Little work around that | Sep 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | Just some simply UI | Sep 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | Let khtml do all the work | Sep 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | In Google's case too!! | Sep 08 20:35 |
| schestowitz | Chrome OS => browser => KDE koce | Sep 08 20:36 |
| schestowitz | *kode | Sep 08 20:36 |
| MinceR | should be Khrome and Khromium :> | Sep 08 20:36 |
| schestowitz | Apple ought to have comitted to khtml | Sep 08 20:37 |
| trmanco | eh | Sep 08 20:37 |
| MinceR | they can't play nice with others | Sep 08 20:37 |
| schestowitz | Not kind of nick it,, upset devs, and then "oh! oops"... sorry, we'll open-source our FORK now | Sep 08 20:37 |
| schestowitz | To consuse people | Sep 08 20:37 |
| schestowitz | And screw KDE | Sep 08 20:37 |
| MinceR | they don't belong in the IT industry | Sep 08 20:37 |
| MinceR | just like m$ | Sep 08 20:37 |
| schestowitz | KDE could not implement some GUI stuff cause of Apple patents | Sep 08 20:37 |
| schestowitz | Seigo wrote about it | Sep 08 20:37 |
| trmanco | but webkit has become superior to khtml | Sep 08 20:38 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Sep 08 20:38 |
| schestowitz | BUT | Sep 08 20:38 |
| trmanco | it's about 3 times as fast | Sep 08 20:38 |
| schestowitz | Why didn't Apple justg give patches to khtml? | Sep 08 20:38 |
| trmanco | yes but | Sep 08 20:38 |
| trmanco | forks are bad | Sep 08 20:38 |
| schestowitz | That would have helped, don't you think? | Sep 08 20:38 |
| MinceR | it's easy to make something that's already complete better. | Sep 08 20:38 |
| trmanco | yes indeed | Sep 08 20:38 |
| trmanco | but what else could we expect from them? | Sep 08 20:39 |
| schestowitz | A lesson in how to bury using forks | Sep 08 20:39 |
| trmanco | MinceR: true | Sep 08 20:39 |
| MinceR | compare the macos "classic" features to those of osx | Sep 08 20:39 |
| schestowitz | Done by Apple, not innocent FOSS users who did not like khtml's direction | Sep 08 20:39 |
| MinceR | you can see that the code monkeys at crApple can't even code a kernel worth shit | Sep 08 20:39 |
| schestowitz | That would have been different | Sep 08 20:39 |
| schestowitz | Apple made a blobrowser | Sep 08 20:39 |
| trmanco | LOL | Sep 08 20:39 |
| schestowitz | And messed up with others in the process | Sep 08 20:39 |
| schestowitz | IMHO | Sep 08 20:39 |
| trmanco | they did the best thing | Sep 08 20:39 |
| trmanco | use a *nix based kernel | Sep 08 20:40 |
| MinceR | no, they didn't | Sep 08 20:40 |
| schestowitz | They didn't do well | Sep 08 20:40 |
| schestowitz | They picked BSD | Sep 08 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Cause Linux is GPL | Sep 08 20:40 |
| MinceR | the best thing would have been building a GNU/Linux distro with their own DE for noobs | Sep 08 20:40 |
| trmanco | or else they would just end up like windows | Sep 08 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Apple does not like that | Sep 08 20:40 |
| schestowitz | For iPhone too | Sep 08 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Jobs himself said no to GPL | Sep 08 20:40 |
| MinceR | (and playing nice with the community, including making that DE free software) | Sep 08 20:40 |
| schestowitz | So no Linux | Sep 08 20:40 |
| schestowitz | HE wanted to rename it | Sep 08 20:40 |
| trmanco | they don't like open source... | Sep 08 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Mr. Darwinjobs | Sep 08 20:40 |
| MinceR | but there are no engineers at crApple, so such a thing will never happen | Sep 08 20:40 |
| trmanco | that much | Sep 08 20:40 |
| schestowitz | A lesson in devoslusion | Sep 08 20:40 |
| trmanco | even though they offer darwin and cups and webkit, but still | Sep 08 20:41 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Sep 08 20:41 |
| MinceR | IT products will continue to suck as long as we allow failed lawyers and marketroids dictate it | Sep 08 20:41 |
| schestowitz | But look in perspective | Sep 08 20:41 |
| schestowitz | They needed CUPS | Sep 08 20:41 |
| MinceR | engineers should be put in charge | Sep 08 20:41 |
| schestowitz | And webkit if mostly KDE work | Sep 08 20:41 |
| schestowitz | They claim credit for it now | Sep 08 20:41 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Jobs is an engineers | Sep 08 20:41 |
| schestowitz | But Wozniak more so | Sep 08 20:42 |
| MinceR | yeah, they had money to buy the company that produced CUPS -- real engineering genius there :> | Sep 08 20:42 |
| MinceR | no, he isn't | Sep 08 20:42 |
| schestowitz | Didn't Jobs come across as a rookie like Gates? | Sep 08 20:42 |
| schestowitz | Who didn't do much programming? | Sep 08 20:42 |
| MinceR | nobody who hacks up something like the Lisa and goes on along that line deserves to be called an engineer | Sep 08 20:42 |
| schestowitz | The ethos and all said that programmers complained about Gates' rubbish code | Sep 08 20:42 |
| MinceR | they've betrayed engineering and reason | Sep 08 20:42 |
| schestowitz | They should realise he's from law school | Sep 08 20:42 |
| schestowitz | Not an apt programmer | Sep 08 20:42 |
| trmanco | what was the problem with lisa? | Sep 08 20:43 |
| MinceR | that it was an idiot box | Sep 08 20:43 |
| trmanco | I've seen some videos of it | Sep 08 20:43 |
| MinceR | it wasn't designed to be used, just like all the crApple products afterwards | Sep 08 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Not sure... | Sep 08 20:43 |
| trmanco | that's all | Sep 08 20:43 |
| schestowitz | But did he code for Lisa? | Sep 08 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Doubful. | Sep 08 20:43 |
| trmanco | not my time... | Sep 08 20:43 |
| MinceR | it was designed for idiots to drool over, and nothing more | Sep 08 20:43 |
| schestowitz | By that stage he was in amnagement AFAIK | Sep 08 20:43 |
| schestowitz | And Linus hardly writes Linus | Sep 08 20:43 |
| schestowitz | And Linus hardly writes Linux | Sep 08 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Not anymore anyway | Sep 08 20:43 |
| MinceR | which means he dictated the direction | Sep 08 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Recently he said he wrote some | Sep 08 20:43 |
| MinceR | just like ever since | Sep 08 20:43 |
| trmanco | linus wrote git | Sep 08 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Well, didn't Gates dictate Vista direction? | Sep 08 20:44 |
| MinceR | dunno | Sep 08 20:44 |
| schestowitz | That's what one BSD guy wrote | Sep 08 20:44 |
| MinceR | m$ isn't so dependent on one guy | Sep 08 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Metz Report or something | Sep 08 20:44 |
| MinceR | m$ has more Borg doing the same thing | Sep 08 20:44 |
| trmanco | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/funny-pictures-fox-rejects-request.jpg | Sep 08 20:45 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: will you install kde 4.3 when a distro comes out with it? | Sep 08 20:45 |
| MinceR | :D | Sep 08 20:45 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: i will | Sep 08 20:45 |
| MinceR | i'll have to play around with mandriva, i just didn't have the time | Sep 08 20:46 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: he licked something bad, it seems | Sep 08 20:46 |
| MinceR | (had to hunt for hardware in my free time...) | Sep 08 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Mozilla picked a good logo | Sep 08 20:46 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: not yet | Sep 08 20:46 |
| schestowitz | I can mail you the CD :-p | Sep 08 20:46 |
| schestowitz | 2009.1 kde | Sep 08 20:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Firefox rejects your... http://is.gd/32Klg | Sep 08 20:46 | |
| MinceR | :) | Sep 08 20:46 |
| MinceR | x86_64? | Sep 08 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Nope | Sep 08 20:47 |
| MinceR | :/ | Sep 08 20:47 |
| MinceR | i figured it's time to make the switch | Sep 08 20:47 |
| schestowitz | 64-bit.. I have old binaries that are 32-bit | Sep 08 20:47 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: yeah, like ipv6 | Sep 08 20:48 |
| schestowitz | or dnf | Sep 08 20:48 |
| MinceR | DNF :D | Sep 08 20:48 |
| schestowitz | Duke | Sep 08 20:48 |
| MinceR | yeah, i know | Sep 08 20:48 |
| schestowitz | Or Linux | Sep 08 20:48 |
| schestowitz | on 90% of desktops | Sep 08 20:48 |
| schestowitz | With a bunch of secrataries clinging on to Windows still | Sep 08 20:48 |
| schestowitz | Like WordPerfect | Sep 08 20:48 |
| that would be about right. need a few BSD machines | Sep 08 20:49 | |
| maybe some hurd | Sep 08 20:49 | |
| schestowitz | Licensing issues with Linus | Sep 08 20:49 |
| schestowitz | *nux | Sep 08 20:49 |
| that's why hurd would be nice | Sep 08 20:49 | |
| schestowitz | If only they could pick those drivers as gplv3 | Sep 08 20:49 |
| schestowitz | hurd could use a real hurdon | Sep 08 20:50 |
| schestowitz | Like Linux code | Sep 08 20:50 |
| schestowitz | But they don't mix well | Sep 08 20:50 |
| schestowitz | hurd still makes progress | Sep 08 20:50 |
| schestowitz | on gnu.org they post updates | Sep 08 20:50 |
| schestowitz | m-kernel | Sep 08 20:50 |
| schestowitz | like mach | Sep 08 20:50 |
| schestowitz | 100 Reasons Why Linux Kicks Ass http://100reasonslinuxkicksass.blogspot.com/ | Sep 08 20:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @tweetmeme Embeddable Waves: The Google Wave WordPress Plugin http://bit.ly/UYADZ | Sep 08 20:51 | |
| MinceR | some more reasons HURD would be nice include that it's a microkernel and that its developer team is uncorrupted | Sep 08 20:52 |
| MinceR | the author forgets to mention that Linux also runs on supercomputers | Sep 08 20:52 |
| supercomputers, TVs, elevator controllers, cell phones, PDAs, desktops, netbooks, medical equipment, it's hard to think of something that does not use gnu/linux. | Sep 08 20:53 | |
| hotmail? | Sep 08 20:54 | |
| MinceR | that was bsd, wasn't it? | Sep 08 20:54 |
| even M$ campus uses gnu/linux in their wifi routers. | Sep 08 20:54 | |
| and their google searches | Sep 08 20:54 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] RT @tweetmeme Trapped Girls Updated Facebook Status Instead of Calling For Help http://bit.ly/y5WWR | Sep 08 20:54 | |
| MinceR | and in front of their webservers | Sep 08 20:54 |
| trmanco | twitter: microsoft uses linux on msn and live and bingo | Sep 08 20:55 |
| lol | Sep 08 20:55 | |
| the gnu/linux bong | Sep 08 20:55 | |
| trmanco | they have akmai | Sep 08 20:55 |
| MinceR | "Bingo" because success is random? :> | Sep 08 20:55 |
| trmanco | or whateve that company is called | Sep 08 20:55 |
| MinceR | akamai | Sep 08 20:55 |
| trmanco | yes that | Sep 08 20:55 |
| define success. | Sep 08 20:55 | |
| trmanco | they need linux to protect themselves | Sep 08 20:55 |
| MinceR | finding what you were looking for | Sep 08 20:55 |
| trmanco | ... | Sep 08 20:56 |
| bong looks nice, but it does not help you find things | Sep 08 20:56 | |
| MinceR | (in the context of a web search engine) | Sep 08 20:56 |
| MinceR | but occasionally it might give you the thing you were looking for, right? | Sep 08 20:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Who would Jesus twitterspam? No-one, @ revolutionrev. Spammer. #mocknblock | Sep 08 20:56 | |
| a Google person made fun of bong the other day, "if you Bing it, you will find it" | Sep 08 20:56 | |
| I tried to Bong what he was talking about .... total fail. | Sep 08 20:57 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] World's first floating wind turbine opens in Norway: http://is.gd/32LAi | Sep 08 20:57 | |
| trmanco | ... | Sep 08 20:57 |
| I was unable to find two or three things he said Bing should be able to find if it was a decent search engine. I think the things were M$ publications. | Sep 08 20:57 | |
| trmanco | try typing into bing microsoft sucks | Sep 08 20:57 |
| trmanco | I mean | Sep 08 20:57 |
| trmanco | "f*ck microsoft" | Sep 08 20:58 |
| yeah, I saw that screen shot. they had cleaned it up before I go there. | Sep 08 20:58 | |
| trmanco | ah ok | Sep 08 20:58 |
| trmanco | I don't use bing so can't say too much about it | Sep 08 20:59 |
| schestowitz | They help the users | Sep 08 20:59 |
| trmanco | why bing if google? | Sep 08 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Protection from 'unhealthy' content | Sep 08 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft decides what's healthy | Sep 08 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Or indexes more from 'approved' sites | Sep 08 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Red Hat hypervisor tools to run on Windows only http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39742416,00.htm | Sep 08 21:00 |
| probably, http://www.bing.com/search?q=vista+sucks&form=QBLH&qs=n | Sep 08 21:00 | |
| still amusing | Sep 08 21:00 | |
| trmanco | omg | Sep 08 21:01 |
| trmanco | fail | Sep 08 21:01 |
| trmanco | my isp is advertising on that page | Sep 08 21:01 |
| schestowitz | Trolls ntwork: Adventures In Linux – Or How I spent Labor Day! http://www.bloggernews.net/122156 | Sep 08 21:01 |
| schestowitz | They always are Linux hostile | Sep 08 21:01 |
| trmanco | what a bunch of sellouts | Sep 08 21:01 |
| schestowitz | They made some big anti-Linux posts | Sep 08 21:01 |
| schestowitz | Tell Bong to crawl bloggersnews.net more | Sep 08 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft needs more of their pages in the index | Sep 08 21:02 |
| good grief, M$ has some kind of comment next to every search result! Big time damage control | Sep 08 21:03 | |
| schestowitz | http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:fNxlRfwlxGYJ:beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/09/04/le-temps-des-adieux/+Le+temps+des+adieux%E2%80%A6&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us | Sep 08 21:03 |
| trmanco | for Marketing Purposes only (TM) | Sep 08 21:03 |
| schestowitz | Ha! | Sep 08 21:03 |
| trmanco | dang | Sep 08 21:03 |
| trmanco | those are my initials | Sep 08 21:04 |
| trmanco | so I'm a trademark :D | Sep 08 21:04 |
| schestowitz | "Originally against this form of exhibitionism that blogging is, I started blogging in August 2005. I can’t remember what made me take that decision, maybe the self-imposed exile in another city than the one I was used with." | Sep 08 21:04 |
| schestowitz | Beranger quits | Sep 08 21:04 |
| schestowitz | Blogging | Sep 08 21:04 |
| schestowitz | Not Linux] | Sep 08 21:04 |
| schestowitz | Less rants ... | Sep 08 21:04 |
| schestowitz | I can live with that | Sep 08 21:04 |
| schestowitz | But he was fantastic at anti-patents | Sep 08 21:05 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmm....... | Sep 08 21:05 |
| trmanco | http://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-7-vs-Linux-Microsoft-Trashes-Open-Source-OS-121184.shtml | Sep 08 21:05 |
| oh well. Bong is not worth writing about because no one is going to use it | Sep 08 21:05 | |
| schestowitz | "The Kubuntu Karmic Alpha 5 features KDE 4.3.1 and it feels very stable at first sight (it even hibernates from the LiveCD!), maybe I’ll install it." | Sep 08 21:05 |
| schestowitz | Cool\! | Sep 08 21:05 |
| schestowitz | Beranger moves back to KDE! | Sep 08 21:06 |
| trmanco | oh BASIC | Sep 08 21:06 |
| trmanco | oldie days | Sep 08 21:06 |
| trmanco | pascal too | Sep 08 21:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] This speech appears to advocate Republican hard work and self reliance http://is.gd/32Msy I can't spot the Marxist propaganda. Can you? | Sep 08 21:06 | |
| trmanco | http://news.softpedia.com/news/BASIC-Interpreter-Found-in-Commodore-64-iPhone-App-121179.shtml | Sep 08 21:06 |
| schestowitz | "No more part of the blogoscenti, I should probably do what in Romanian they call a blogoflender: someone who visits other people’s blogs and posts comments. Commenting on blogs and forums, this is something I will still do!" | Sep 08 21:08 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Wore my Che Stallman T today. Bloke (who runs Ubuntu) in the Co-Op couldn't take his eyes off it. Wonder if he had trouble recognising him.. | Sep 08 21:08 | |
| schestowitz | "In the costless world where they claim “freedom” matters, the only project that has a direction (even a wrong one!) is KDE4." | Sep 08 21:09 |
| *ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.112.6.254.plusnet.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 21:09 | |
| schestowitz | wb, ThistleWeb | Sep 08 21:09 |
| ThistleWeb | ty | Sep 08 21:09 |
| ThistleWeb | finally got round to posting my first blog post to the new url | Sep 08 21:10 |
| schestowitz | How To Install Google Chrome (Chromium) Extensions / Plugins In Ubuntu – Linux http://jaxov.com/2009/09/how-to-install-google-chrome-chromium-extensions-plugins-in-ubuntu-linux/ | Sep 08 21:10 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: yes, one among many on the subject | Sep 08 21:10 |
| schestowitz | Linux is winning, Microsoft is winning | Sep 08 21:10 |
| schestowitz | It's just inertia and people's lack of awareness that Windows is technically behind that kept them going | Sep 08 21:11 |
| ThistleWeb | the site is still a work in progress though, until I get the blogroll and widgets sorted | Sep 08 21:11 |
| schestowitz | it all chnanges with the likes of FF and Apache | Sep 08 21:11 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: when it's done, let me know so we can add the RSS | Sep 08 21:11 |
| schestowitz | Chinese browsers are putting the heat on Internet Explorer http://news.alibaba.com/article/detail/business-in-china/100168060-1-chinese-browsers-putting-heat-internet.html | Sep 08 21:12 |
| ThistleWeb | what do you mean add the rss? to where? | Sep 08 21:12 |
| schestowitz | "Microsoft's Internet Explorer (IE) browser, which once dominated the Chinese Internet world with 96 percent of the market, has seen its share shrink to 57.8 percent due to the growing popularity of domestic brands." | Sep 08 21:12 |
| ThistleWeb | so it posts in here? | Sep 08 21:12 |
| schestowitz | Net Propagation hardly does any China IPs | Sep 08 21:13 |
| schestowitz | They are busy in the US | Sep 08 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Pretending it's 'the world' | Sep 08 21:13 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: no, I do Daily Links | Sep 08 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Gets about a thousand eyes on it | Sep 08 21:13 |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 21:13 | |
| ThistleWeb | my blog is only partly gonna be about linux / FOSS. Plenty of non related stuff | Sep 08 21:14 |
| trmanco | http://www.securitytracker.com/alerts/2009/Sep/1022846.html | Sep 08 21:14 |
| trmanco | http://www.securitytracker.com/alerts/2009/Sep/1022845.html | Sep 08 21:14 |
| ThistleWeb | though I am gonna have a category for Linux, so I guess you could use that feed if you want | Sep 08 21:14 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: that's OK | Sep 08 21:14 |
| trmanco | http://www.securitytracker.com/alerts/2009/Sep/1022844.html | Sep 08 21:14 |
| trmanco | http://www.securitytracker.com/alerts/2009/Sep/1022843.html | Sep 08 21:14 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: yes, that's what I do | Sep 08 21:14 |
| trmanco | http://www.securitytracker.com/alerts/2009/Sep/1022842.html | Sep 08 21:15 |
| ThistleWeb | thats cool, as long as you know it's not an all linux / FOSS blog | Sep 08 21:15 |
| schestowitz | category/linux/rss or whatever | Sep 08 21:15 |
| trmanco | all I see it remote | Sep 08 21:15 |
| ThistleWeb | it's thistleweb.co.uk | Sep 08 21:15 |
| ThistleWeb | I'll add the category now, so you can add it | Sep 08 21:15 |
| ThistleWeb | hang on | Sep 08 21:15 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: patch tuesday? | Sep 08 21:15 |
| schestowitz | 5 critical | Sep 08 21:15 |
| trmanco | yes | Sep 08 21:16 |
| *Logician (i=ad1ef898@gateway/web/freenode/x-nhnxpwxpiuikffox) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 21:16 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Having some Faustino VII Rioja to celebrate. | Sep 08 21:16 | |
| ha ha ACPI still sucks in Windows 7 -> Sleep and Hibernation Are Still Crapshoots. This may sound like a beta complaint, but it's been a real problem in Windows for a while. Sometimes your computer will come out of sleep or hibernation. (Sleep is much better than hibernation, though.) Sometimes it won't. | Sep 08 21:17 | |
| from the M$ approved Bong results http://i.gizmodo.com/5150284/7-things-we-hate-about-windows-7 | Sep 08 21:18 | |
| -> Control Panel Is a Mess. Look at this crap. No really, just look at it. The Simple layout literally hides what you're looking for, while the All view masks it with the camouflage of multiplicity. | Sep 08 21:19 | |
| trmanco | I'm impressed | Sep 08 21:19 |
| trmanco | I bought one of those economic bulbs | Sep 08 21:19 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] the mouse did in fact die of shock. ah well. NEXT! | Sep 08 21:19 | |
| trmanco | and it has twice as much luminosity as the normal 40watt one I had here :O | Sep 08 21:19 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: I just created the linux category, but best wait a while until I have a few posts in there | Sep 08 21:19 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2009/09/08/wsj-reports-oin-to-acquire-former-sgi-patents-via-microsoft/ WSJ reports OIN to acquire former SGI patents (via Microsoft) | Sep 08 21:19 |
| -> Windows Media Player Blows. Yeah, it now natively supports more than three-and-a-half codecs, but try actually figuring out how to use its great new features. The interface is yucky and cluttered, a consequence of trying to simplify a program that's gotten really unwieldy as its sprouted feature tentacles over the years. (Before you even start, I'm not a fan of iTunes' feature bloat either, but its library UI is better.) Our at | Sep 08 21:20 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: that gizmodo item is hardly damining | Sep 08 21:20 |
| schestowitz | Read it | Sep 08 21:20 |
| ThistleWeb | whats the difference between a post tag and category? | Sep 08 21:20 |
| schestowitz | It's almost like an ad in some ways | Sep 08 21:20 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] not going to BU tonight. but f is worn out and the lounge is actually tidy. now for a blessed *pint*. | Sep 08 21:20 | |
| I like to cherry pick | Sep 08 21:20 | |
| What I see is that ACPI still does not work and media sucks. | Sep 08 21:21 | |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: tags don't tag along | Sep 08 21:21 |
| schestowitz | They are usually many per item | Sep 08 21:21 |
| MinceR | WMP has always blown, right from the moment it was introduced in place of Media Player | Sep 08 21:21 |
| schestowitz | Categories ae fewer | Sep 08 21:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] O poder das lampadas economizadoras, 11 watts dá dobro das luz das normais de 40watts :O | Sep 08 21:21 | |
| schestowitz | Categories expected to be frequently recurring tags | Sep 08 21:21 |
| schestowitz | The different is small | Sep 08 21:22 |
| ThistleWeb | gotcha | Sep 08 21:22 |
| ThistleWeb | ty | Sep 08 21:22 |
| schestowitz | Mostly history related | Sep 08 21:22 |
| schestowitz | In the past it was cats | Sep 08 21:22 |
| schestowitz | Now tags | Sep 08 21:22 |
| schestowitz | Since some years ago with the folksonomy/tag hype | Sep 08 21:22 |
| the Gizmodo article is a log like an ad. I'm sure they were given the best working machine M$ could buy. | Sep 08 21:22 | |
| schestowitz | They were | Sep 08 21:22 |
| schestowitz | IIRC | Sep 08 21:22 |
| schestowitz | Let me check | Sep 08 21:22 |
| ThistleWeb | they just seemed to be 2 names for the same thing, thats all | Sep 08 21:22 |
| So, even the best M$ can do is suck. | Sep 08 21:23 | |
| schestowitz | twitter: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/09/gizmodo-ms-schwag/ | Sep 08 21:24 |
| ThistleWeb | so are you saying categories are being phased out and that I should be using tags? | Sep 08 21:24 |
| article is too old to quote, fanboys will say "all those problems are fixed." | Sep 08 21:24 | |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: yes, but.. | Sep 08 21:24 |
| other sources are better than the "love-in" | Sep 08 21:24 | |
| schestowitz | Categories become part of a blog hierarchy, sorta | Sep 08 21:24 |
| schestowitz | But categories can be shown as cloud tag | Sep 08 21:24 |
| ThistleWeb | does each tag create it's own rss feed? | Sep 08 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Tags are cats on steroid{Tm} | Sep 08 21:24 |
| schestowitz | *ds | Sep 08 21:24 |
| ThistleWeb | I dont like the cloud thing, I wont use that widget | Sep 08 21:25 |
| schestowitz | They accumulated related topic and more of them from many blogs | Sep 08 21:25 |
| schestowitz | For people to find event photos and stuff | Sep 08 21:25 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: tags have no rss | Sep 08 21:25 |
| schestowitz | in most cmses | Sep 08 21:25 |
| schestowitz | It would be possible | Sep 08 21:25 |
| schestowitz | Like tag pages | Sep 08 21:25 |
| schestowitz | They are wastefull | Sep 08 21:25 |
| schestowitz | PageRank diluters | Sep 08 21:25 |
| ThistleWeb | I dont expect that many categories, but I'd like peeps to only subscribe to some subjects if thats what they want | Sep 08 21:26 |
| ThistleWeb | maybe I'll think through the categories I need and just use them, I can always tag additional detail per post | Sep 08 21:27 |
| ThistleWeb | it's been ages since I used wordpress, it's changed a lot | Sep 08 21:29 |
| trmanco | 97 thing every programmer should know -> http://programmer.97things.oreilly.com/wiki/index.php/Edited_Contributions | Sep 08 21:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] 97 things every programmer should know -> http://is.gd/32Ou7 | Sep 08 21:30 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Plasma Summit: New functions for KDE's desktop shell: http://is.gd/32ODp | Sep 08 21:32 | |
| *izmel (i=3c30facc@gateway/web/freenode/x-xuhrkedaknddmkpz) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 21:32 | |
| *izmel (i=3c30facc@gateway/web/freenode/x-xuhrkedaknddmkpz) has left #boycottnovell | Sep 08 21:32 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "100 Reasons Why Linux Kicks Ass" http://ping.fm/aw5xE Great page. | Sep 08 21:33 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Patch Tuesday: Five Critical: http://is.gd/32OIy | Sep 08 21:33 | |
| schestowitz | Yet Another Call For A 'Computer User's License' http://techdirt.com/articles/20090904/0448366110.shtml | Sep 08 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Lawyers For Guy Charged In Death Of 4 Year Old, Demanding IDs Of 300 Newspaper Commenters < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090904/1849506119.shtml > | Sep 08 21:36 |
| schestowitz | *sigh* | Sep 08 21:37 |
| schestowitz | Some people don't get the Net | Sep 08 21:37 |
| In Corporate Redmond, people us the net to get you! http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1360527&cid=29348607 | Sep 08 21:39 | |
| ha ha | Sep 08 21:39 | |
| bbl | Sep 08 21:39 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft pulls Windows 7 balloons from Euro 'launch parties': http://is.gd/32PgI | Sep 08 21:40 | |
| schestowitz | trmanco: no racism here | Sep 08 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Just silly balloon thing | Sep 08 21:41 |
| trmanco | UK is not euro | Sep 08 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Balloons are lame | Sep 08 21:42 |
| trmanco | :( | Sep 08 21:42 |
| schestowitz | These are adults, fekchristsake | Sep 08 21:42 |
| trmanco | maybe :) | Sep 08 21:42 |
| trmanco | UK did a right thing to stay away from euro | Sep 08 21:42 |
| schestowitz | VIsata 7! BAAAAAAH-loons! | Sep 08 21:42 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=chatzill@41.249.73.172) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 21:42 | |
| trmanco | that's nothing | Sep 08 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Is there cake too? | Sep 08 21:42 |
| schestowitz | How about raising the Vista 7 box on a chair? | Sep 08 21:42 |
| trmanco | for windows 8 launch party there will be jumping clowns and monkeys | Sep 08 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Does Vista blow the candels or just blows? | Sep 08 21:43 |
| schestowitz | *Candles | Sep 08 21:43 |
| trmanco | LOL | Sep 08 21:43 |
| trmanco | both | Sep 08 21:43 |
| _Hicham_ | great Vista | Sep 08 21:43 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: Vista has acrobats | Sep 08 21:43 |
| schestowitz | They danced on buildings | Sep 08 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Wow! | Sep 08 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Show us your Wow! | Sep 08 21:43 |
| _Hicham_ | let's celebrate Windows | Sep 08 21:43 |
| schestowitz | The Wow Starts... NOW! | Sep 08 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Wow | Sep 08 21:43 |
| _Hicham_ | 24 Years of ... | Sep 08 21:43 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: there's a party in my stomach | Sep 08 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Soon a party in my arse | Sep 08 21:43 |
| schestowitz | maybe VIsta 7 is in their | Sep 08 21:44 |
| trmanco | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/08/win_bsod_0day/comments/#c_576348 "WinNuke is back, baby!" | Sep 08 21:44 |
| schestowitz | Doesn't work on 'my machine' | Sep 08 21:44 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I just broke the fast in here | Sep 08 21:44 |
| schestowitz | Hehe | Sep 08 21:44 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: indeed | Sep 08 21:44 |
| schestowitz | That's what I said | Sep 08 21:44 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] "WinNuke is back, baby!" LOOOL | Sep 08 21:44 | |
| schestowitz | QUick, get thre VB code | Sep 08 21:44 |
| schestowitz | There's room for reuse | Sep 08 21:44 |
| schestowitz | Just readjust the packet payload | Sep 08 21:45 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : is there a lot of muslims in Manchester ? | Sep 08 21:45 |
| schestowitz | Call it Win7nuke | Sep 08 21:45 |
| trmanco | heh | Sep 08 21:45 |
| schestowitz | Win7nuke.exe | Sep 08 21:45 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes | Sep 08 21:45 |
| schestowitz | You coming? :-) | Sep 08 21:45 |
| *trmanco B0000M | Sep 08 21:45 | |
| _Hicham_ | if I have time, why not | Sep 08 21:45 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: at least it boots faster | Sep 08 21:46 |
| schestowitz | LOL | Sep 08 21:46 |
| schestowitz | After the BSOD | Sep 08 21:46 |
| trmanco | nope | Sep 08 21:46 |
| trmanco | it restarts faster | Sep 08 21:46 |
| schestowitz | Then pull out the plug from the socket | Sep 08 21:46 |
| _Hicham_ | Gentoo boots faster than any OS | Sep 08 21:46 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : ready to try Gentoo ? | Sep 08 21:46 |
| schestowitz | Takes time to compile | Sep 08 21:46 |
| trmanco | no | Sep 08 21:46 |
| trmanco | I'm not that hardcore yet | Sep 08 21:46 |
| MinceR | FreeDOS boots faster than Gentoo :> | Sep 08 21:46 |
| trmanco | next up will be arch | Sep 08 21:46 |
| _Hicham_ | trmanco : how hardcore are u ? | Sep 08 21:46 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : ever used FreeDOS ? | Sep 08 21:47 |
| MinceR | i think i did, in dosbox :) | Sep 08 21:47 |
| trmanco | I consider myself between n00b and hardcore | Sep 08 21:47 |
| trmanco | medium user I guess | Sep 08 21:48 |
| trmanco | not really advanced yet | Sep 08 21:48 |
| *Logician has quit ("Page closed") | Sep 08 21:50 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] how to win friends and influence people http://is.gd/32Q7W | Sep 08 21:50 | |
| trmanco | Free Software Foundation files objection to Google Book Search settlement: http://www.fsf.org/news/2009-09-google-book-settlement-objection | Sep 08 21:51 |
| *gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 21:51 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz you actually find konqueror usable? i couldn't stand it after a while | Sep 08 21:55 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♻ @danyR: Why Youtube should use Ogg Theora and HTML 5? http://bit.ly/4Ac2e | Sep 08 21:58 | |
| *Diablo-D3 has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) | Sep 08 22:13 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard I mostly use Thunderbrowse and Firefox (both gecko) | Sep 08 22:14 | |
| schestowitz | trmanco: youtube is a major injection vendor for Flash. It would not surprise me if Adobe pays Google for it all. | Sep 08 22:20 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : actually Google should pay Adobe | Sep 08 22:20 |
| MinceR | as if adobe deserved any money for what they've done | Sep 08 22:22 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : they don't ? | Sep 08 22:23 |
| MinceR | they don't | Sep 08 22:23 |
| _Hicham_ | even though they developed a plugin for Linux ? | Sep 08 22:26 |
| _Hicham_ | and gave mozilla the source code of flash plugin to improve its integration ? | Sep 08 22:27 |
| MinceR | yay, they've made the web even worse by continuing to push flash | Sep 08 22:34 |
| MinceR | pushing useless bloat and a great threat to privacy into browsers | Sep 08 22:35 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : was there a better solution than flash ? | Sep 08 22:36 |
| trmanco | html 5 is here | Sep 08 22:37 |
| trmanco | to stay | Sep 08 22:37 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: yes, it's called HTML | Sep 08 22:38 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : right now yes | Sep 08 22:38 |
| _Hicham_ | but before, was there an alternative ? | Sep 08 22:38 |
| MinceR | HTML was here before flash existed | Sep 08 22:38 |
| _Hicham_ | HTML5? | Sep 08 22:39 |
| MinceR | it was always a better solution than flash | Sep 08 22:39 |
| MinceR | HTML | Sep 08 22:39 |
| _Hicham_ | how ? | Sep 08 22:39 |
| MinceR | i didn't say any version number | Sep 08 22:39 |
| _Hicham_ | embed videos with object tag ? | Sep 08 22:39 |
| MinceR | you could always link to videos | Sep 08 22:39 |
| MinceR | and it worked better than anything else | Sep 08 22:39 |
| _Hicham_ | like to videos using embedded plugins? | Sep 08 22:39 |
| MinceR | there's no point in constraining videos into a part of a browser window | Sep 08 22:39 |
| _Hicham_ | like Windows Media Player plugin ? | Sep 08 22:40 |
| MinceR | but even embedded plugins work better than flash | Sep 08 22:40 |
| MinceR | yes, even the wmp plugin works better than flash | Sep 08 22:40 |
| _Hicham_ | OK, so u are helping MS in here | Sep 08 22:40 |
| MinceR | plus you can replace the plugin while using the same container and codecs | Sep 08 22:40 |
| _Hicham_ | and Apple | Sep 08 22:40 |
| MinceR | no, not really | Sep 08 22:40 |
| MinceR | have you ever heard of Kaffeine, Totem, MPlayer? | Sep 08 22:40 |
| MinceR | Xine? | Sep 08 22:40 |
| MinceR | which one of those are from m$ or crApple? | Sep 08 22:40 |
| MinceR | also, which media player won't play a video file you've downloaded via a link? | Sep 08 22:41 |
| trmanco | oh Xine is shiny | Sep 08 22:41 |
| _Hicham_ | note : not all WMV videos work on Mplayer or Xine | Sep 08 22:41 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: before you get carried away too far, note that i didn't mention WMV | Sep 08 22:41 |
| _Hicham_ | Real Media videos are worse | Sep 08 22:41 |
| MinceR | there's also MPEG | Sep 08 22:41 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : WMV are used worldwide | Sep 08 22:41 |
| MinceR | and Ogg, Matroska, and others | Sep 08 22:41 |
| _Hicham_ | WMV videos are more compressed than MPEG | Sep 08 22:42 |
| MinceR | that is a function of the codec, not the container | Sep 08 22:42 |
| _Hicham_ | of course | Sep 08 22:42 |
| MinceR | you don't know what you're talking about | Sep 08 22:42 |
| MinceR | so stop trolling | Sep 08 22:42 |
| _Hicham_ | I know what I am talking about | Sep 08 22:42 |
| _Hicham_ | you are the troll in here | Sep 08 22:42 |
| MinceR | i'm the one putting words in the mouth of the others? | Sep 08 22:42 |
| _Hicham_ | You are promoting proprietary codecs and leading to illegal use of Linux | Sep 08 22:43 |
| _Hicham_ | Flash Plugin is at least legal to use | Sep 08 22:43 |
| MinceR | ok, now quote me promoting proprietary codecs | Sep 08 22:43 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Sep 08 22:43 |
| _Hicham_ | that is what u just did | Sep 08 22:43 |
| MinceR | also, tell me which kind of FLOSS codec flash uses | Sep 08 22:43 |
| MinceR | where's the quote? | Sep 08 22:43 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not FLOSS, but it is legal | Sep 08 22:43 |
| MinceR | so you're still spewing bullshit | Sep 08 22:43 |
| MinceR | and calling me a troll, while you continue trolling | Sep 08 22:44 |
| MinceR | even the container flash uses is proprietary | Sep 08 22:44 |
| _Hicham_ | proprietary but legal | Sep 08 22:44 |
| MinceR | and its video playback is badly written | Sep 08 22:44 |
| MinceR | and it always was badly written | Sep 08 22:44 |
| _Hicham_ | using MPlayer is not always legal | Sep 08 22:45 |
| _Hicham_ | using VLC is not always legal | Sep 08 22:45 |
| _Hicham_ | using Gstreamer-plugins-bad and ugly is not always legal | Sep 08 22:45 |
| trmanco | that is in some countries | Sep 08 22:45 |
| MinceR | you could use fluendo (or what they're called) plugins | Sep 08 22:45 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Sep 08 22:45 |
| MinceR | you could use Ogg Theora/Vorbis | Sep 08 22:45 |
| _Hicham_ | in Gstreamer only | Sep 08 22:45 |
| MinceR | or even Dirac | Sep 08 22:45 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : I am talking about just decoding | Sep 08 22:46 |
| _Hicham_ | not encoding | Sep 08 22:46 |
| MinceR | and if you accept flash, it means you accept proprietary crap | Sep 08 22:46 |
| MinceR | so you might as well use realplayer or wmp | Sep 08 22:46 |
| MinceR | it's the same proprietary crap | Sep 08 22:46 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : I don't accept proprietary crap | Sep 08 22:46 |
| MinceR | only when you believe it supports your point | Sep 08 22:46 |
| _Hicham_ | I just have to deal with it | Sep 08 22:46 |
| MinceR | and if you have to deal with flash, that makes it ok? | Sep 08 22:47 |
| _Hicham_ | not that flash is better suited for streaming | Sep 08 22:47 |
| _Hicham_ | *note | Sep 08 22:47 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no other equivalent solution till the moment | Sep 08 22:47 |
| _Hicham_ | even HTML5 implementation of Videos still uses a lof of CPU power | Sep 08 22:48 |
| MinceR | except for the ones i've already mentioned? | Sep 08 22:48 |
| _Hicham_ | case : openvideo on dailymotion | Sep 08 22:48 |
| MinceR | also, have fun with your full-screen streamed video in flash | Sep 08 22:48 |
| MinceR | with 5 fps at 100% CPU load on each core | Sep 08 22:48 |
| MinceR | it's the state of the art! | Sep 08 22:48 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, it depends on the player | Sep 08 22:48 |
| _Hicham_ | some players use 100% cpu | Sep 08 22:48 |
| _Hicham_ | while other are more conservative | Sep 08 22:48 |
| MinceR | there's only one player for flash that supports all (or even most) flash applets | Sep 08 22:49 |
| MinceR | the official proprietary crap | Sep 08 22:49 |
| _Hicham_ | but I d like to see SVG replace this hole thing | Sep 08 22:49 |
| MinceR | coded by retarded monkeys | Sep 08 22:49 |
| MinceR | yes, i can totally see SVG replace MPEG | Sep 08 22:49 |
| MinceR | oh, wait | Sep 08 22:49 |
| _Hicham_ | Mozilla have really some great samples of SVG animations | Sep 08 22:50 |
| _Hicham_ | which is very promising | Sep 08 22:50 |
| _Hicham_ | it just needs more work | Sep 08 22:50 |
| MinceR | the web doesn't really need vector animation, btw | Sep 08 22:50 |
| _Hicham_ | i d rather say that gnash and swfdec teams should work on a better implementation of svg | Sep 08 22:50 |
| _Hicham_ | instead of catching up with Adobe | Sep 08 22:50 |
| MinceR | it needs hypertext with static images | Sep 08 22:50 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : why images even ? let's do just text | Sep 08 22:51 |
| MinceR | if the gnash and swfdec teams gave up on flash, you couldn't even play as much as you can now with them | Sep 08 22:51 |
| _Hicham_ | and use w3m and lynx | Sep 08 22:51 |
| _Hicham_ | Gnash and Swfdec are still incomplete | Sep 08 22:51 |
| MinceR | i'd say images aren't too intensive on resources | Sep 08 22:51 |
| _Hicham_ | and consume far more memory than Flash | Sep 08 22:52 |
| _Hicham_ | animated images are too intensive on resources | Sep 08 22:52 |
| MinceR | 225936 < MinceR> it needs hypertext with static images | Sep 08 22:52 |
| MinceR | consult the dictionary on the meaning of "static" | Sep 08 22:52 |
| _Hicham_ | ok, MinceR is bringing the web to .... ah, mid 90s ? | Sep 08 22:53 |
| MinceR | to sanity | Sep 08 22:53 |
| MinceR | not the mid90s, with its huge heaps of stock animgifs | Sep 08 22:53 |
| MinceR | and i'd retain CSS | Sep 08 22:53 |
| _Hicham_ | excuse me MinceR, but u should *flash* your head | Sep 08 22:54 |
| _Hicham_ | everybody is working toward a better Web | Sep 08 22:54 |
| MinceR | and now you've turned to personal remarks | Sep 08 22:54 |
| MinceR | scraping the bottom of the barrel? | Sep 08 22:54 |
| _Hicham_ | no, I am just very surprised to see how u r seeing things | Sep 08 22:55 |
| MinceR | a better web doesn't mean web pages that take up hundreds of megabytes of RAM just for a paragraph of text that you can't copy nor save | Sep 08 22:55 |
| _Hicham_ | are u really talking seriously ? | Sep 08 22:55 |
| MinceR | it also doesn't mean pages where you can't stop the background music | Sep 08 22:55 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : u got solutions for that | Sep 08 22:55 |
| MinceR | or where you have to wait until you can disable it | Sep 08 22:55 |
| MinceR | yes | Sep 08 22:55 |
| MinceR | flash blocking | Sep 08 22:56 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Sep 08 22:56 |
| MinceR | which breaks flashsites | Sep 08 22:56 |
| _Hicham_ | noscript | Sep 08 22:56 |
| MinceR | flashsites exist already | Sep 08 22:56 |
| _Hicham_ | and so on | Sep 08 22:56 |
| MinceR | shows how much macromedia/adobe has broken the web already | Sep 08 22:56 |
| _Hicham_ | people have to make money | Sep 08 22:56 |
| _Hicham_ | they should use animations | Sep 08 22:56 |
| MinceR | and not just uncopyable text, but also broken scroll behavior, no keyboard support, no accessibility, no font resizing | Sep 08 22:56 |
| _Hicham_ | static stuff won't attract customers | Sep 08 22:56 |
| MinceR | customers should grow up | Sep 08 22:57 |
| _Hicham_ | give companies a more attractive solution, and Adobe is done | Sep 08 22:57 |
| *wallclimber (n=ozma@ip98-165-33-243.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 22:57 | |
| _Hicham_ | customers should grow up ? | Sep 08 22:57 |
| MinceR | people need to grow up if we are to have a better web | Sep 08 22:57 |
| MinceR | fascination with shiny and noisy bloat gets in the way | Sep 08 22:57 |
| MinceR | it leads to stuff like flash | Sep 08 22:57 |
| _Hicham_ | that what makes money | Sep 08 22:58 |
| MinceR | good products make money, too | Sep 08 22:58 |
| MinceR | sure, they're more difficult to produce | Sep 08 22:58 |
| _Hicham_ | good products need marketing too | Sep 08 22:58 |
| MinceR | but they make our lives better instead of just making us poorer | Sep 08 22:58 |
| MinceR | originally the idea was that the business that makes better products will prosper | Sep 08 22:59 |
| MinceR | better products survive, and our lives get better | Sep 08 22:59 |
| MinceR | but that's not what's happening | Sep 08 22:59 |
| wallclimber | I think one reason why microsoft was able to get the hold it did was because ordinary people had nothing prior to compare it to. | Sep 08 23:01 |
| MinceR | ordinary people lost control before they could get their bearings | Sep 08 23:01 |
| wallclimber | they had nothing to look at to see if it was well done, or not | Sep 08 23:01 |
| MinceR | OEM agreements sprang up | Sep 08 23:01 |
| MinceR | before people knew what was happening, m$ was already making their products subtly incompatible with those of competitors | Sep 08 23:02 |
| MinceR | (mainly me$$y-do$) | Sep 08 23:02 |
| ThistleWeb | when you're the lil guy you have to be compatible with the big guy, when you become the big guy you can tell the lil guy to fuck off | Sep 08 23:02 |
| wallclimber | when windows was new, everyone thought it would get better, so they cut microsoft a lot of slack | Sep 08 23:02 |
| _Hicham_ | MS-DOS did have BSOD or not ? | Sep 08 23:02 |
| MinceR | no | Sep 08 23:03 |
| MinceR | in m$-dos apps froze the machine | Sep 08 23:03 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Foundation Talks About the Future of Linux http://ping.fm/DJZTg | Sep 08 23:03 | |
| MinceR | ThistleWeb: and that's not how engineers work | Sep 08 23:03 |
| MinceR | these are all bullies, not engineers | Sep 08 23:04 |
| wallclimber | it's why i try to be very patient with the folks i help. they are intelligent people, but are horribly afraid of their computers, i try to help them relax and learn how to be responsible for their own machines | Sep 08 23:04 |
| MinceR | i thought people cut m$ a lot of slack because macos was expensive as hell and the other GUIs didn't have many apps for them | Sep 08 23:04 |
| wallclimber | that's the key to getting people to see why windows is junk | Sep 08 23:04 |
| wallclimber | i don't know. that's not how i remember those times...early 90s or so. aol was giving out cds like candy and dialup was a luxury | Sep 08 23:05 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Proposal for Setting Up GNU/Linux in Schools http://ping.fm/aZBIH | Sep 08 23:05 | |
| ThistleWeb | wallclimber: one area MS have been very successful in, is making people afraid of their PCs. When something goes wrong it's always the users fault for clicking on something, not MS fault for letting it auto execute and install whatever malware | Sep 08 23:06 |
| wallclimber | people my age got computers because their kids wanted them | Sep 08 23:06 |
| MinceR | m$ made people accept unreliability as a normal part of IT | Sep 08 23:06 |
| wallclimber | ThistleWeb: that's exactly what's happened, and that's the first thing i try to teach people is not to let that stupid computer make them feel stupid | Sep 08 23:07 |
| MinceR | it crashes? business as usual. reboot/reinstall. | Sep 08 23:07 |
| ThistleWeb | I've taught basic PC use and tricks to people on a volunteer basis from time to time, and lost count of the number of time they'd turn to me before clicking on something, to see if I'd stop them or nod | Sep 08 23:07 |
| ThistleWeb | a PC is a tool, it should be able to be configures and used as such for the end users needs | Sep 08 23:08 |
| ThistleWeb | configured* | Sep 08 23:08 |
| MinceR | indeed | Sep 08 23:08 |
| wallclimber | I've seen that too, i always smile and tell them that nothing they can do (short of a sledge hammer) is going to hurt that computer | Sep 08 23:08 |
| ThistleWeb | it shouldn't break by normal users actions | Sep 08 23:08 |
| cubezzz | in the past the reliability of the PC was largely due to the power supply | Sep 08 23:08 |
| cubezzz | if it locked up, you would reboot instantly into basic | Sep 08 23:08 |
| wallclimber | i refuse to work on anyone's computer that won't at least invest in an UPS | Sep 08 23:09 |
| ThistleWeb | the way I see it, is that it's as important to build their confidence in experimenting as it is to try and get them onto FOSS / Linux | Sep 08 23:09 |
| _Hicham_ | UPS are cheap | Sep 08 23:09 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Desktop GNU/Linux Has Success in OEM Channel Despite Vista 7 Hype http://ping.fm/JS6lp | Sep 08 23:10 | |
| wallclimber | and for older folks (the majority of those i work with) i let them know it's okay to tell their kids and grandkids to leave their computers alone | Sep 08 23:10 |
| cubezzz | some power supplies don't deal with heat very well, like these tiny transformers on routers and dsl 'modems' | Sep 08 23:10 |
| cubezzz | just bad engineering | Sep 08 23:11 |
| wallclimber | grandma and grandpa are generally overly careful...until the holidays when the grandkids get bored and download a pile of junk on granny's machine | Sep 08 23:11 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Video Shows How GNU/Linux Challenges Microsoft http://ping.fm/njbPQ | Sep 08 23:11 | |
| ThistleWeb | for older folks, the risk of a virus allowing porn popups must be a downside to windows, and an angle to use to help promote linux | Sep 08 23:12 |
| ThistleWeb | some older folks like porn too, but it's not all that common IMO | Sep 08 23:12 |
| wallclimber | i've had some truly nice experiences helping folks with their computers though...even got a marriage proposal once...lol | Sep 08 23:12 |
| ThistleWeb | still, even with porn it's nice to choose your own, in your own time lol | Sep 08 23:13 |
| wallclimber | ThistleWeb, i had one lady that whispered to me, over the phone, that she was afraid her husband was into porn...she was very sad and upset | Sep 08 23:13 |
| ThistleWeb | wallclimber: I don't doubt it, there was a teacher who had porn pop up during a class, she had to try and prove it was a virus, not her intent | Sep 08 23:14 |
| wallclimber | it ended up just being a bad infestation of malware, we got it cleaned up and they both laughed about it...but it could have been a bad situation (they run Mandriva now :) | Sep 08 23:14 |
| cubezzz | well, anyone could get a 'bad' email with that | Sep 08 23:15 |
| ThistleWeb | people don't understand the basics of how a PC works from a users point of view. It's not all that difficult. | Sep 08 23:15 |
| ThistleWeb | success then :)) | Sep 08 23:15 |
| wallclimber | yes, that situation with the substitute teacher was a shameful thing...that poor woman was ruined over stupidity... | Sep 08 23:16 |
| ThistleWeb | I don't expect peeps to learn advanced PC stuff, but everyone who uses a PC should learn the basics, regardless of which OS they use | Sep 08 23:16 |
| wallclimber | the thing is, grandparents tell me all the time that their kids (not youngsters, but grown kids) are too impatient to explain things to them, so they are glad to find someone their age hat's willing to help them learn | Sep 08 23:17 |
| wallclimber | *that's* | Sep 08 23:17 |
| cubezzz | well if you want to teach you have to have a lot of patience | Sep 08 23:18 |
| wallclimber | one of my pet peeves is the common idea that grandparents are too stupid to learn new things. they really just learn differently, | Sep 08 23:18 |
| cubezzz | some folks have the attention span of a fruit fly | Sep 08 23:18 |
| wallclimber | cubezzz: Windows taught me patience | Sep 08 23:19 |
| cubezzz | I'll bet | Sep 08 23:19 |
| wallclimber | :o) | Sep 08 23:19 |
| cubezzz | well, you're old enough to remember the pre-windows era, that should help | Sep 08 23:19 |
| wallclimber | i found that attention spans get shorter if people feel uncomfortable or defensive | Sep 08 23:19 |
| wallclimber | i always do my best to keep things light, and let people learn at their own speed | Sep 08 23:20 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Solano Stroll to Have GNU/Linux Presence and Welcome New Users http://ping.fm/kEAQA | Sep 08 23:20 | |
| cubezzz | it's different for most of my generation, we pretty much grew up at the beginning of the PC era, starting in the late 70's | Sep 08 23:21 |
| cubezzz | windows is just another phase | Sep 08 23:21 |
| wallclimber | i told one older woman who was sooo afraid of her computer, that she'd given birth, raised 3 kids, worked a full time job all her life, and buried loved ones...if she could do all that (under some very adverse conditions) she could handle a computer | Sep 08 23:22 |
| wallclimber | no problem | Sep 08 23:22 |
| wallclimber | i think you just have to put it all in perspective sometimes | Sep 08 23:22 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Victorian Department of Transport Goes with GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/nwCSu | Sep 08 23:22 | |
| wallclimber | it ain't brain science or rocket surgery, ya know? LOL | Sep 08 23:23 |
| wallclimber | ok, i don't know why i'm so chatty today...been a little chaotic here though...need a break | Sep 08 23:23 |
| cubezzz | well, things are a bit different now, computers are ubiquitous and just about essential | Sep 08 23:24 |
| wallclimber | wallclimber is feeling stressed - off to find food | Sep 08 23:24 |
| cubezzz | ok, I'll just drone on by myself :) | Sep 08 23:24 |
| wallclimber | take care :o) | Sep 08 23:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Keeps Gaining More Hardware Support, Other Power Features http://ping.fm/wXwVQ http://ping.fm/2Gq5B http://ping.fm/2QAIp | Sep 08 23:24 | |
| wallclimber | lol, i do that all the time :) | Sep 08 23:24 |
| wallclimber | bye for now | Sep 08 23:25 |
| *wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Sep 08 23:25 | |
| cubezzz | later | Sep 08 23:25 |
| *magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Sep 08 23:25 | |
| cubezzz | damn, no Microsoft trolls to argue with today | Sep 08 23:25 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE Development and Free 3-D Acceleration Updates http://ping.fm/rdizX | Sep 08 23:27 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : thanks for the video | Sep 08 23:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Slitaz 2 a Good Step Forward in Lightweight and Compete GNU/Linux http://ping.fm/tb3fc | Sep 08 23:29 | |
| trmanco | lol | Sep 08 23:31 |
| trmanco | cubezzz: go to COLA | Sep 08 23:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Internet Explorer Loses a Lot of Share Outside the US http://ping.fm/XWyfi http://ping.fm/edE9w | Sep 08 23:32 | |
| _Hicham_ | I am writing a native IE port to Linux | Sep 08 23:35 |
| _Hicham_ | It will be shipped by default by all linux distros | Sep 08 23:35 |
| _Hicham_ | and even BSDs | Sep 08 23:35 |
| trmanco | are you also porting the engine? | Sep 08 23:36 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: do you already have the source code? | Sep 08 23:36 |
| trmanco | how did you get access to the source code? | Sep 08 23:36 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: also, which IE version is it based on? | Sep 08 23:36 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gentoo Merits Debate http://ping.fm/aO33x | Sep 08 23:37 | |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : IE8 | Sep 08 23:38 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat Makes Its Free Software Business Case http://ping.fm/kq7cN http://ping.fm/jrswn | Sep 08 23:38 | |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: so, do you already have the source code? if not, how are you going to get it? if you aren't going to get it, how are you going to port it? | Sep 08 23:39 |
| _Hicham_ | Microsoft will give it to me under shared code license | Sep 08 23:39 |
| _Hicham_ | that way, we will have a native mshtml.so.8.0 | Sep 08 23:40 |
| MinceR | and how will you get the rights to distribute the port? | Sep 08 23:40 |
| MinceR | without those, it won't be shipped by most linux/bsd distros | Sep 08 23:41 |
| _Hicham_ | I will host the port in my website | Sep 08 23:41 |
| MinceR | and how will you fend off the hordes of m$ lawyers? | Sep 08 23:42 |
| MinceR | also, how will those distros fend off the hordes of m$ lawyers? | Sep 08 23:42 |
| ThistleWeb | MinceR: try silver bullets | Sep 08 23:43 |
| *_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 23:43 | |
| MinceR | i prefer napalm | Sep 08 23:43 |
| ThistleWeb | napalm is not very accurate, too much collateral damage | Sep 08 23:44 |
| MinceR | that's why it should be dropped on the m$ hq | Sep 08 23:44 |
| _goblin | hi all! | Sep 08 23:44 |
| MinceR | hay | Sep 08 23:44 |
| ThistleWeb | hey _goblin | Sep 08 23:44 |
| _goblin | hi.....hows things going? | Sep 08 23:45 |
| *ThistleWeb finally got his blog going, and has done a couple of posts | Sep 08 23:45 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Zenwalk 6.2 is Released and Reviewed http://ping.fm/3LSDV http://ping.fm/7ZqlX | Sep 08 23:45 | |
| *MinceR is looking for a new keyboard | Sep 08 23:45 | |
| _goblin | Since Moshe Goldfarb will be reading these logs in detail, I'll say hello to him too....Hi Moshe!!!! | Sep 08 23:46 |
| MinceR | i almost got a G15 with the proper layout i need | Sep 08 23:46 |
| MinceR | then turned out the only piece they had was the demo piece, which was handled by a lot of people :( | Sep 08 23:46 |
| _goblin | Thistleweb.....whats your blog address??? | Sep 08 23:46 |
| _goblin | or have I already linked to it? | Sep 08 23:47 |
| ThistleWeb | _goblin: thistleweb.co.uk | Sep 08 23:47 |
| _goblin | thanks..... | Sep 08 23:47 |
| _Hicham_ | wb _goblin | Sep 08 23:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu Family Broken Down and Explained http://ping.fm/IZDsn | Sep 08 23:47 | |
| _goblin | :) | Sep 08 23:47 |
| _goblin | thistleweb: It will be on the blogroll shortly. | Sep 08 23:48 |
| ThistleWeb | _goblin: it's still kinda generic right now until I get more used to wordpress, and which plugins I need etc | Sep 08 23:48 |
| ThistleWeb | ty | Sep 08 23:48 |
| _Hicham_ | ThistleWeb : ask schestowitz, he is an expert in Wordpress | Sep 08 23:49 |
| _goblin | thats np.....Ive stuck with a very basic layout...been very happy. | Sep 08 23:49 |
| _goblin | yep and Roy's the wordpress pro! | Sep 08 23:49 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah he's helped answer a few things earlier | Sep 08 23:49 |
| schestowitz | Hey, _goblin | Sep 08 23:49 |
| schestowitz | brb | Sep 08 23:49 |
| schestowitz | Doing twits and all | Sep 08 23:49 |
| ThistleWeb | it'll gradually be refined | Sep 08 23:50 |
| schestowitz | I was once listed among main WordPress people | Sep 08 23:50 |
| schestowitz | Not that I deserve it | Sep 08 23:50 |
| schestowitz | I used to contribute a lot | Sep 08 23:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Obama speech fills ears of mere children with vile propaganda http://notnews.today.com/?p=633 | Sep 08 23:50 | |
| _goblin | Interesting link you gave me Roy..... | Sep 08 23:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] New blog! Been blog rolled on Openbytes but please visit and support! http://www.thistleweb.co.uk #linux #foss - THE DIGITAL PRISM | Sep 08 23:53 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ubuntu for Sub-notebooks (Easy Peasy) Released with Many Improvements http://ping.fm/JQrKG http://ping.fm/k7JjA | Sep 08 23:55 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Linux Phones to Come from HTC http://ping.fm/kebRH | Sep 08 23:56 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nokia Confirms Commitment to Linux http://ping.fm/37H4x | Sep 08 23:57 | |
| *gargoyle-grin has quit ("Leaving.") | Sep 08 23:58 | |
| *Will (i=4c724679@gateway/web/freenode/x-yzzzhrtdfdhvwqis) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 08 23:58 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] KDE4 Starts to Shows Power Over the Rest of the Pack http://ping.fm/gWvGi | Sep 08 23:58 | |
| Will | Here's a question: How do you go about trying to get someone to use OpenOffice when MS is dumping Office 2007 for $20 or less? | Sep 08 23:59 |
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