IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 12th, 2009

-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Windows Machines Have Many Options for #QuickBoot with #GNU #Linux http://bit.ly/oecmGSep 12 00:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenSUSE to Deliver the Latest #KDE4 on Stable #GNU #Ballnux Version http://bit.ly/3AgCLSep 12 00:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Codeplex Foundation = #Farce http://bit.ly/e7MWX http://bit.ly/14J2ML http://bit.ly/2m56vP http://bit.ly/AWJpg http://bit.ly/26GCnSep 12 00:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Open Dictionary Builder Promoted, Another One Fakes #Openess http://dictionary.k12opened.com/index.php http://bit.ly/2oLrK9 via @glynmoodySep 12 00:11
cubezzzhmmm got an interesting problem hereSep 12 00:11
cubezzzbasically I need a svg logo madeSep 12 00:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Apple is 'Attacking' #Linux Phones Again http://bit.ly/EdKWg #isjobsevilSep 12 00:12
cubezzzmaybe wikipedia has oneSep 12 00:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #BBC Worldwide Seemingly Corrupted by #Microsoft Influence http://bit.ly/3i1clmSep 12 00:15
trmancosvg logo of whatSep 12 00:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft 's Draconian #Licences Lead to Scare, Uncertainty http://bit.ly/34KPeZSep 12 00:18
cubezzzcbcSep 12 00:18
MinceRCypher Block Chaining?Sep 12 00:21
cubezzzno, Canadian Broadcasting Corp :)Sep 12 00:22
trmancothat's copyrighted, it might be hard to findSep 12 00:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OLPC Founder Blames Corporate Greed and #FUD for Issues http://www.undispatch.com/node/8867Sep 12 00:24
cubezzzI have permissionSep 12 00:24
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cubezzzI have permission to use the cbc logo, not sure if it's ok to use wikipedia's svg fileSep 12 00:24
trmancocubezzz: wikipedia has oneSep 12 00:25
trmancosort ofSep 12 00:25
cubezzzalthough it's just a circle surrounded by a bunch of partial circlesSep 12 00:25
trmancoright you mentioned thatSep 12 00:25
*trmanco is sleepySep 12 00:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ODF Celebrates Wins in #Brazil http://bit.ly/UFo3sSep 12 00:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft's CEO Goes Totally Bonkers Again http://bit.ly/lV66x #ballmer #monkeyboySep 12 00:27
schestowitz*SighSep 12 00:28
schestowitzFinally.Sep 12 00:28
schestowitzLots of news today...Sep 12 00:28
schestowitzwallclimber: I'll do Comes in the weekendSep 12 00:29
cubezzzwhat did ballmer do this time?Sep 12 00:29
cubezzzah, I see :)Sep 12 00:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz of course jobs is evil! that's a feature! http://bit.ly/2UmvW #isjobsevilSep 12 00:30
schestowitzBallmer helps Linux, cubezzzSep 12 00:30
cubezzzhow? :)Sep 12 00:31
cubezzzby being ridiculous?Sep 12 00:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Some people still appear to be spreading FUD about #KDE4 . They should really try the latest version beforehand.Sep 12 00:31
trmancoschestowitz: using kde microblog?Sep 12 00:33
trmancohttp://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/9jp64/gpl_violator_lg_electronics_refuses_to_release/Sep 12 00:34
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♻ @schestowitz: #Microsoft's CEO Goes Totally Bonkers Again http://bit.ly/lV66x #ballmer #monkeyboySep 12 00:44
schestowitztrmanco: yes, it's greatSep 12 00:44
schestowitzI put two widgetsSep 12 00:45
schestowitzOne for each microblogSep 12 00:45
trmancoI didn't get it to workSep 12 00:45
schestowitzIt looks great, too.Sep 12 00:45
schestowitzThere's a snagSep 12 00:45
schestowitzTook me a few minutesSep 12 00:45
schestowitzI'd use ping.fm only as a backup thing nowSep 12 00:45
trmancothe add account button or whatever button appears before you add any account did not disappear after I've added an accountSep 12 00:46
trmancoso I just installed choqokSep 12 00:46
trmancospeedy client btwSep 12 00:46
schestowitztrmanco: "configure" is thereSep 12 00:48
schestowitzThat's OKSep 12 00:48
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trmancognSep 12 00:55
schestowitznnSep 12 00:59
oiaohmHmm Linux is not there yet.Sep 12 01:01
oiaohmMS CEO is not threating to destroy Linux devices yet.Sep 12 01:01
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schestowitzDevices?Sep 12 01:06
schestowitzLinux is doing very well thereSep 12 01:06
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schestowitzhttp://twitter.com/cjadamscollier/statuses/3920250728Sep 12 01:08
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schestowitz^the troll we had hereSep 12 01:08
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_goblinwho is cjadams?Sep 12 01:24
_goblinahSep 12 01:24
_goblinsorry, missed your other comment...Sep 12 01:24
schestowitz_goblin: did you see the Lynch video?Sep 12 01:29
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_goblinno....Sep 12 01:38
_goblinwhat video?Sep 12 01:38
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Diablo-D3http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/DqUYUQmMQyM/IEEE-Approves-80211n-Wi-Fi-StandardSep 12 01:56
schestowitz_goblin:  hold onSep 12 01:56
Diablo-D3FIIIIIIINNNNNNNNAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYSep 12 01:56
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schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/09/11/gnoblin-3-0-released/#tippingpointSep 12 02:06
schestowitz_goblin: see the aboveSep 12 02:06
Diablo-D3gnoblin?Sep 12 02:06
schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/09/11/yahoo-will-no-longer-support-old-versions-of-messenger Yahoo! keeps shedding off lifeSep 12 02:06
schestowitzg:noblinSep 12 02:07
schestowitzgoblijnx for moblinSep 12 02:07
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oiaohmschestowitz: Been wondering on the site load thing.   Old articals most likely could be locked from new comments and if there was some way to staticfy the existing comments by by database look up load there.Sep 12 02:18
sebsebseboiaohm: he is awaySep 12 02:18
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oiaohmO well opps.Sep 12 02:19
_Hicham_oiaohm : u here ?Sep 12 02:21
oiaohmYepSep 12 02:21
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_Hicham_oiaohm : did u test Mesa 7.6 ?Sep 12 02:26
oiaohmNot yet _Hicham_Sep 12 02:26
_Hicham_neither gallium-3D?Sep 12 02:27
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oiaohmnvidia card no point yet _Hicham_Sep 12 02:29
_Hicham_gallium isn't supporting nvidia ?Sep 12 02:29
oiaohmOpen source driver for nvida is not far enough along to be usabled with galliumSep 12 02:31
_Hicham_radeon is quite usable i heardSep 12 02:33
_goblinright, thats me done...goodnight all..Sep 12 02:45
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Before I finish for the night, join http://twitter.com/BrokenWindows_ help educate people to alternatives to #Microsoft #windows #vista #xpSep 12 02:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] and thats me done. Goodnight all.Sep 12 02:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Top 5 Firefox Add-Ons For Soccer Fans - FootieFox is AMAZING for football fans. http://tinyurl.com/modlsrSep 12 02:53
sebsebseb_Hicham_: hiSep 12 03:07
sebsebseboiaohm: hiSep 12 03:07
oiaohmHi sebsebsebSep 12 03:07
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twitter1funny.  http://campustechnology.com/articles/2009/09/10/red-hat-funds-open-source-lab-in-new-gates-center.aspxSep 12 03:41
twitter1generally, Gates forbids free software in his gifts.Sep 12 03:41
twitter1but I like this.  Red Hat says, "Thanks for the building, Bill.  Your old computers and software are out back, in the dumpster."Sep 12 03:42
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DaemonFCMinceR, I set up dmixSep 12 04:01
DaemonFCand it works better than Pulseaudio could ever couldSep 12 04:01
DaemonFC*ever could that isSep 12 04:01
DaemonFCI managed to beat VLC into submission with itSep 12 04:02
DaemonFCPulseaudio had me about ready to screamSep 12 04:04
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WillLooks like someone has started a program to help with  automating the creation of deb packages in Ubuntu: http://linuxpoison.blogspot.com/2009/06/create-ubuntu-packages-deb.htmlSep 12 05:09
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hicham_twitter1 : welcome backSep 12 05:11
twitter1thanksSep 12 05:11
twitter1I've been on the move tonightSep 12 05:12
DaemonFCwell, every time someone asks how to use VLC to stream AAC the thread gets shut downSep 12 05:12
DaemonFCor some dumbass says "use Vorbis"Sep 12 05:12
hicham_yes, use VorbisSep 12 05:12
DaemonFCcan'tSep 12 05:12
twitter1won'tSep 12 05:12
hicham_why ?Sep 12 05:12
DaemonFCnothing understands itSep 12 05:12
hicham_yes, he won'tSep 12 05:12
DaemonFCJustin.tv only accepts AACSep 12 05:13
twitter1kind of, well, dumbass.Sep 12 05:13
DaemonFCand the version of VLC on Ubuntu is crippledSep 12 05:13
hicham_of course it should beSep 12 05:13
DaemonFCI can't seem to find a PPA with an uncrippled copySep 12 05:14
DaemonFCthis is ridiculousSep 12 05:14
twitter1try Debian.Sep 12 05:14
twitter1or at least "the universe" in UbuntuSep 12 05:14
DaemonFCnow there's some bullshitSep 12 05:14
hicham_try medibuntuSep 12 05:14
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DaemonFCmedibuntu doesn't have an uncrippled copy of VLCSep 12 05:14
twitter1How, exactly, is your VLC "crippled"?Sep 12 05:15
DaemonFCthe general consensus seems to be "We don't wanna" "It's too hard" and "use Vorbis"Sep 12 05:15
DaemonFCeven when you can't use VorbisSep 12 05:15
DaemonFCtwitter1, crippled in the sense of I can install VLC on Windows in about 3 seconds flat and I'd already be streaming by nowSep 12 05:16
DaemonFCbut with Ubuntu I still haven't figured out why the damned thing won't just encode AACSep 12 05:16
DaemonFCI have the ffmpeg encoder for AACSep 12 05:16
twitter1apt-get install vlc does not work for you?Sep 12 05:16
twitter1why are you hung up on AAC?Sep 12 05:17
DaemonFCit's like talking to a wallSep 12 05:17
twitter1you could tell us why you love AAC ....Sep 12 05:17
DaemonFCI don'tSep 12 05:17
DaemonFCI need to use itSep 12 05:17
DaemonFCVorbis is unsupported by the site I'm trying to stream toSep 12 05:17
twitter1tell us about this siteSep 12 05:18
DaemonFCthis is why 5 minutes on Linux has me begging for DirectSound and the real versions of the programs they mutilatedSep 12 05:19
DaemonFChttp://apiwiki.justin.tv/mediawiki/index.php/Linux_Broadcasting_APISep 12 05:19
DaemonFCit supports h.264 with AACSep 12 05:20
Diablo-D3spSep 12 05:20
Diablo-D3soSep 12 05:20
Diablo-D3I'd like to mentionSep 12 05:20
DaemonFCapparently Ubuntu broke VLCSep 12 05:20
Diablo-D3BFS is fucking awesomeSep 12 05:20
DaemonFCand is unwilling to fix itSep 12 05:20
DaemonFCtwitter1, Do you ever find yourself wanting to bang your head on the keyboard at moments like this when your distribution has chosen to be incompatible with the rest of the world for no reason?Sep 12 05:21
twitter1no.  those parts of the world do not interest me.Sep 12 05:22
DaemonFC99% of it?Sep 12 05:22
twitter1your world must be smallSep 12 05:22
DaemonFCI wonder what Linux these instructions are forSep 12 05:22
DaemonFCcause I ran into the same religious crap on Mandriva tooSep 12 05:22
DaemonFCit says the instructions work on Ubuntu 9.04Sep 12 05:23
hicham_DaemonFC : Mandriva crippled VLC ?Sep 12 05:23
DaemonFCapparentlySep 12 05:23
DaemonFCCanonical also crippled the version of VLC for Windows they distributed on the "Open CD", back before they gave up on itSep 12 05:24
hicham_usually, Mandriva is less strict on free itemsSep 12 05:24
twitter1obnoxious patent laws should not be confused with "religious crap"Sep 12 05:24
DaemonFCthey broke DVD playbackSep 12 05:24
twitter1just get decssSep 12 05:24
hicham_DVD playback ?Sep 12 05:24
hicham_it is libdvdcssSep 12 05:24
DaemonFChicham_, Yeah, they removed libdvdcssSep 12 05:24
hicham_no distro is hosting itSep 12 05:24
twitter1then you can use nice software like dvdbackup and be free of physical media and crap players.Sep 12 05:24
DaemonFCso if you installed the one from their CD, VLC was brokenSep 12 05:24
hicham_too dangerousSep 12 05:24
DaemonFCand if you isntalled the one from Videolan, it workedSep 12 05:25
twitter1US law prohibits distribution of decssSep 12 05:25
DaemonFCand I careSep 12 05:25
twitter1right, videolan is located in a country with more sane laws.Sep 12 05:25
twitter1so use their package, if you can.Sep 12 05:25
hicham_in FranceSep 12 05:25
Diablo-D3US law actually doesnt give a fuckSep 12 05:25
hicham_or, compile VLC from sourceSep 12 05:26
DaemonFCthe same France that bans you from the internet if the music industry complains to your ISP?Sep 12 05:26
Diablo-D3holywood is too scared shitless to try hereSep 12 05:26
DaemonFCor the France from the alternate universe?Sep 12 05:26
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: oh, btw, that law isnt legalSep 12 05:26
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: the european union courts are extremely pissed at france.Sep 12 05:26
*hicham_ is now known as _Hicham_Sep 12 05:26
twitter1DMCA forbids decss distribution in the US.  Do it and you get shut down quickly.Sep 12 05:26
Diablo-D3twitter1: I dont think so tim.Sep 12 05:26
DaemonFCtwitter1, That's assuming there is someone to sueSep 12 05:26
Diablo-D3vlc and mplayer both come with it inside the sourceSep 12 05:26
Diablo-D3I havent had to manually install libdecss for years nowSep 12 05:27
DaemonFCDMCA take downs only work if the file is hosted on a single serverSep 12 05:27
twitter1why don't you two start your own distribution.  I'd like it.Sep 12 05:27
twitter1ha haSep 12 05:27
_Hicham_because he can'tSep 12 05:27
twitter1I can see that.Sep 12 05:27
_Hicham_he is too scared to host itSep 12 05:27
DaemonFCthe world has to be so politically correctSep 12 05:28
DaemonFCit's a diseaseSep 12 05:28
Diablo-D3DMCA fails to work when, oh I dunno, the magic css key is posted on the front page of digg.Sep 12 05:28
DaemonFClike when you go to the supermarket and there's 20 handy crapped spotsSep 12 05:28
DaemonFC:)Sep 12 05:28
DaemonFCUbuntu is being kind of like thatSep 12 05:28
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: you know what I do?Sep 12 05:28
Diablo-D3I park in them so handicapped people can make handicapped facesSep 12 05:28
twitter1have you tried this one yet, http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-ubuntu.htmlSep 12 05:28
DaemonFCDiablo-D3, say it with meSep 12 05:29
DaemonFChandy crapSep 12 05:29
DaemonFC:DSep 12 05:29
*Diablo-D3 smacks DaemonFC Sep 12 05:29
Diablo-D3DaemonFC: go download dennis leary - assholeSep 12 05:29
_Hicham_there is the ppaSep 12 05:29
_Hicham_shouldn't be crippledSep 12 05:29
twitter1lol, ->  deb http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/debian sid main      deb-src http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/debian sid main    For a normal install, do:     # apt-get update    # apt-get install vlc libdvdcss2Sep 12 05:30
twitter1there you go.Sep 12 05:30
DaemonFConly goes as far as JauntySep 12 05:30
twitter1this goes to sid http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-debian.htmlSep 12 05:30
DaemonFCwhat the hell?Sep 12 05:31
DaemonFCwhy not?Sep 12 05:31
twitter1that's about as fresh as it gets.  might be good for your streaming but I would not use it is as a desktop.Sep 12 05:31
DaemonFCwhat's one more broken Ubuntu install?Sep 12 05:31
twitter1it's Debian.Sep 12 05:31
twitter1I'd put it on an older machine.Sep 12 05:31
_Hicham_DaemonFC is the crippled one in hereSep 12 05:31
_Hicham_complaining for nothingSep 12 05:32
DaemonFChandy crapSep 12 05:32
twitter1VLC is like that.Sep 12 05:32
DaemonFCword of the daySep 12 05:32
Diablo-D3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPnv8UvKFzcSep 12 05:32
Diablo-D3its on youtubeSep 12 05:33
Diablo-D3behold the epicnessSep 12 05:33
_Hicham_everything is crap for DaemonFCSep 12 05:33
_Hicham_why not write ur own player ?Sep 12 05:33
DaemonFCI should probably name my Ubuntu spinoff "Everything you ever wanted from Ubuntu but were too afraid to ask for"Sep 12 05:34
DaemonFCand....stil brokenSep 12 05:34
_Hicham_then download Super OSSep 12 05:36
_Hicham_http://hacktolive.org/wiki/Super_OSSep 12 05:37
_Hicham_that is a complete version of UbuntuSep 12 05:37
_Hicham_like Mandriva OneSep 12 05:37
_Hicham_but better for multimedaiSep 12 05:37
_Hicham_*multimediaSep 12 05:37
DaemonFCPackman repo probably doesn't break theirsSep 12 05:48
DaemonFCbut that's for OpenSuseSep 12 05:48
_Hicham_packman repo would slow yast a lotSep 12 05:48
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_Hicham_yast takes for ever to load itSep 12 05:48
DaemonFCthe strangest thing is that VLC on Ubuntu will play AACSep 12 05:48
DaemonFCit just won't encode itSep 12 05:48
DaemonFCso you know it's not about the patentsSep 12 05:48
DaemonFCI highly suspect someone out there with a vendetta has just sabotaged itSep 12 05:49
DaemonFCit just doesn't make senseSep 12 05:49
DaemonFCdecoding of AAC alone trips all over the patents anywaySep 12 05:49
DaemonFCwhy only break the encoder?Sep 12 05:50
_Hicham_why not compile it ?Sep 12 05:50
_Hicham_how much time would it take ?Sep 12 05:51
_Hicham_one hour ?Sep 12 05:51
_Hicham_and ur doneSep 12 05:51
_Hicham_without whiningSep 12 05:51
_Hicham_that is linuxSep 12 05:51
_Hicham_u have the sourceSep 12 05:51
_Hicham_u can everything u want with itSep 12 05:51
twitter1bu bu busted http://news.google.com/news/more?pz=1&ned=us&topic=t&ncl=dWo3QzUKwHZjV6METXBRgY9LjL4_MSep 12 05:52
twitter1I do wish they would be more specific than " hacking into the systems"Sep 12 05:57
twitter1thousands of articles have been wasted on this subject, none of them has mentioned specifics.Sep 12 05:58
_Hicham_this one looks like u twitter1Sep 12 05:59
twitter1heh.  I'm trying to comment, but the site chokes KonqSep 12 05:59
twitter1looks like another windoze only capthaSep 12 06:00
twitter1flash trash all over iceweaselSep 12 06:01
twitter1could not put in name or title, but it ate the commentSep 12 06:02
DaemonFCso are there any sites that don't require flash or nonfree codecs?Sep 12 06:02
DaemonFCI've looked aroundSep 12 06:02
twitter1the same sites are much nicer without a flash plugin in konqSep 12 06:03
DaemonFCso freedom to do what?Sep 12 06:03
DaemonFCburn electricity with a computer that doesn't do anything?Sep 12 06:04
twitter1read the articles in peaceSep 12 06:04
twitter1keeps me from wanting to bash my head against a keyboard, like some people around here.Sep 12 06:04
twitter1he he.  M$ wants to be the open source go to.  http://news.google.com/news/more?pz=1&ned=us&topic=t&ncl=dPzPRSNo7YCBU4MZVMZpbf3N-78bMSep 12 06:06
twitter1Codeplex.  Ha ha.Sep 12 06:07
twitter1Headed by Duke Nukem Forever dude http://cms.sys-con.com/node/1103137Sep 12 06:07
twitter1did they mean to step into that tired meme?Sep 12 06:08
_Hicham_don't u like codeplex ?Sep 12 06:09
_Hicham_DaemonFC : just go back to XPSep 12 06:10
_Hicham_u d feel much betterSep 12 06:10
DaemonFCI'd get more doneSep 12 06:10
DaemonFCwhy does Ubuntu have to introduce artificial limitations?Sep 12 06:11
_Hicham_to be ok with the lawSep 12 06:11
_Hicham_MS pays a lot of patents to deliver the experience u have on WindowsSep 12 06:12
twitter1A M$ sponsored Open Source site?  What's not to like about that?  It's like someone put sugar in my fly shit.Sep 12 06:13
_Hicham_yesSep 12 06:13
_Hicham_If u host a project on this site, u d receive a version of MS Visual Studio for freeSep 12 06:13
twitter1I'd rather stick with sugar from reputable organizations that might, by accident, get a little fly shit in them.Sep 12 06:14
twitter1Woot.  Visual Studio!!!!!1111Sep 12 06:14
_Hicham_yesSep 12 06:14
_Hicham_Visual StudioSep 12 06:14
_Hicham_so that u can develop easilySep 12 06:14
twitter1It sucked 10 years ago.Sep 12 06:14
twitter1I have not needed it since.Sep 12 06:14
_Hicham_Visual Studio 6.0 ?Sep 12 06:15
twitter1Why would I need any of it after 10 years of freedom and decent code?Sep 12 06:15
twitter1I mostly use kate, kdbg and gcc.  It's easy and it works.  There's so much free software out there, I don't need VC robocoding bloat for me.Sep 12 06:16
zlgFOSS does have some good development chains, especially in uP and embeddedSep 12 06:16
DaemonFCKonqueror is pretty lame anywaySep 12 06:17
twitter1If I want to get fancy, I can use kdevelop, but I've never felt the need.Sep 12 06:17
DaemonFCKubuntu would have Firefox if they could get it to fit on the discSep 12 06:17
twitter1DaemonFC Distro will have both on a floppy.Sep 12 06:17
DaemonFCKonqueror still fails to render a lot of sitesSep 12 06:17
twitter1Look, a picture of real astroturf -> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=4817Sep 12 06:18
DaemonFCI just get Opera cause at least I don't have to drag in half of GNOME just to get itSep 12 06:19
twitter1there's been an attack on Konq 3.5, lots of ugly java script, but it's mostly from old media and crap sites.Sep 12 06:19
_Hicham_DaemonFC : Opera is better than Firefox ?Sep 12 06:19
DaemonFC_Hicham_, YesSep 12 06:19
DaemonFCFirefox on Kubuntu has the strangest dependenciesSep 12 06:19
twitter1the 4 branch solves most of the problems very well.Sep 12 06:19
DaemonFCI think they are smoking crackSep 12 06:20
_Hicham_in which way ?Sep 12 06:20
DaemonFCcause it even drags in SynapticSep 12 06:20
_Hicham_Firefox depends on GNOMESep 12 06:20
_Hicham_normalSep 12 06:20
DaemonFCSeamonkey is less than half the size of Firefox if you install it in KubuntuSep 12 06:20
_Hicham_there have been a lot of collaboration between themSep 12 06:20
DaemonFCFirefox has a lot of weird, non-firefox related dependenciesSep 12 06:20
_Hicham_Gecko have been adopted for years by gnomeSep 12 06:20
_Hicham_Firefox depends on GTKSep 12 06:21
_Hicham_and Gnome-VFSSep 12 06:21
DaemonFCanyway, brbSep 12 06:21
_Hicham_Gnome-VFS brings all of gnomeSep 12 06:21
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_Hicham_twitter1 : do u use Konqueror-Webkit ?Sep 12 06:21
twitter1don't knowSep 12 06:22
_Hicham_twitter1 : it should be mentioned in the about boxSep 12 06:23
twitter1I use what comes with Lenny.  I doubt they ship webkit.Sep 12 06:24
twitter1lotta trolling comes up in google on that one.  ickSep 12 06:25
twitter1I doubt Apple can keep up with KDE proper.  KDE excellence was why Apple went to KDE in the first place.Sep 12 06:26
_Hicham_Apple went to KHTML because it was lightweightSep 12 06:29
_Hicham_just a rendering engineSep 12 06:29
_Hicham_not moreSep 12 06:29
twitter1"BSD-Style" licensing.  Very stylish of them.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebkitSep 12 06:29
_Hicham_Mozilla's Gecko is a pain when it comes to embedding it in other appsSep 12 06:29
_Hicham_it keeps breakingSep 12 06:30
twitter1I would think khtml would be easy for that ...Sep 12 06:30
_Hicham_now Mozilla changed their policySep 12 06:30
_Hicham_and is proposing a stable APISep 12 06:30
_Hicham_to attract peopleSep 12 06:30
_Hicham_still, xulrunner is very difficult to useSep 12 06:30
_Hicham_compared to WebkitSep 12 06:30
twitter1If Apple wanted people to use Webkit, they would GPL it.Sep 12 06:31
_Hicham_People are using WebkitSep 12 06:31
_Hicham_Gnome is moving to WebkitSep 12 06:32
_Hicham_by GNOME 2.28, there is a high probability that there won't be any dependence on Mozilla's codeSep 12 06:32
twitter1It's hard to tell if Apple is playing nicely yet.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webkit#ControversySep 12 06:33
twitter1Miguel is moving to IE8....Sep 12 06:34
twitter1anyway, I'm happy with Konq the way it is.Sep 12 06:34
_Hicham_I am moving to IE9Sep 12 06:35
twitter1the 4 branch is moving along nicely.  kudos to Apple if any of their changes were improvements that made it back into khtml, but it's just a few extra developers in the big picture.Sep 12 06:35
_Hicham_are u using the 4 branch ?Sep 12 06:36
twitter1I'm using EIEIO.Sep 12 06:36
twitter1Yes, I have 4.2 from Lenny.Sep 12 06:36
twitter1Works niceSep 12 06:36
twitter1but I don't use the desktop, just Konq and a few other apps.Sep 12 06:36
_Hicham_and the rest is which desktop ?Sep 12 06:38
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twitter1ha ha.  Sweaty B "stomps" M$ employee iPhone.  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/11/ballmer_iphone_bing_win_7_ad/Sep 12 07:20
twitter1kids "brainwashed" and forbidden to have iPods and now employees ridiculed for having iPhone.Sep 12 07:20
twitter1I'm sure he'd hate my laptop with it's GNU stickers.Sep 12 07:21
twitter1Good thing I don't work for him.Sep 12 07:21
cubezzzwell, when I buy a used laptop I remove the windows stickers :)Sep 12 07:22
twitter1Yes, those things are ugly.Sep 12 07:22
twitter1stomp happened at the last M$ Youth Rally at Safeco Field, home to the Seattle MarinersSep 12 07:23
twitter1nice http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/11/ce-oh-no-he-didnt-part-lxii-steve-ballmer-publicly-ridicules/Sep 12 07:24
twitter1->  Apparently, the hapless employee (allegedly from the Windows group) was trying to snap a photo of his boss when Ballmer grabbed the device and made some "funny comments" met by boos and jeers from Microsoft's employees. Steve then set it on the ground and pretended to stomp on it before walking away -- later teasing the employee during his presentation by noting that he hadn't forgotten him. Good times, we're sureSep 12 07:25
twitter1I'm sure the employee was not forgotten.Sep 12 07:25
EruaranroflSep 12 07:26
cubezzzthere's quite a bit of anti-microsoft sentiment online and around the worldSep 12 07:26
EruaranThat story should appear on FailBlog under the heading of "CEO Fail"Sep 12 07:26
twitter1all of it well earned, cubezzzSep 12 07:27
twitter1Ballmer SMASH iPhone with big Bong 2Sep 12 07:28
twitter1Oh my, ->  The scene was visible on the big screen, so even people in the upper deck could see what was happening.Sep 12 07:29
twitter1http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/09/ballmer_spots_microsoft_employee_with_iphone_at_company_meeting.htmlSep 12 07:29
cubezzztrueSep 12 07:29
twitter1very public humiliation.Sep 12 07:29
cubezzzI do maintainance for a company that has 6 computers, 3 windows and 3 linuxSep 12 07:30
cubezzzit's always the windows boxes that mess upSep 12 07:30
twitter1of courseSep 12 07:30
twitter1dog foodSep 12 07:30
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DaemonFCschestowitz: KDE just issued an "upgrade" for Amarok that now tells you you have to pay for Last FMSep 12 07:31
DaemonFCeven though it works fine with their last versionSep 12 07:31
DaemonFCnice of KDE to be the DRM enforcers for Last FMSep 12 07:32
twitter1have I shared this yet, http://bayimg.com/OadcdaaCnSep 12 07:34
DaemonFCbeing locked out is one thing, voluntarily sellingyour users out is anotherSep 12 07:34
twitter1keep using the last version until you are locked out.Sep 12 07:35
DaemonFCI already upgradedSep 12 07:35
twitter1There's enough radio out there that I don't need lastfmSep 12 07:35
DaemonFCthey trojaned in the latest Amarok posing as an upgradeSep 12 07:35
twitter1oh well, thanks for the warning.Sep 12 07:35
twitter1you might check your local packages in /var/cache/apt/archive to see if you have the last version stillSep 12 07:36
cubezzzplenty of other media players for linuxSep 12 07:38
twitter1this idiot, writing for the WSJ, thinks the humiliated employee deserved what he got http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/09/11/ballmers-guide-to-iphone-usage-at-microsoft/Sep 12 07:39
twitter1memorize the talking points, you will be quizzed !Sep 12 07:40
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twitter1lol, "sucking the life out of the stadium" -> http://www.pcworld.com/article/171831/microsofts_ballmer_flogged_over_company_meeting_messages.htmlSep 12 07:47
twitter1Oh, more fun.  20,000 Microsoft Youth at the rally jammed AT&T's cellular network.  iPhone overload!Sep 12 07:48
twitter1MiniMicrosoft has good news => On the up side, Mini-Microsoft said he was surprised to hear COO Kevin Turner, who opened the meeting, admit that the company had over hired.Sep 12 07:51
twitter1LOL, too many employees is good news.Sep 12 07:51
twitter1Gotta keep the executive bonus up!Sep 12 07:52
twitter1so little time, so much failSep 12 07:53
DaemonFChttp://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/kde-starts-enforcing-last-fms-paywall-in-amarok-2-1-80/Sep 12 07:54
DaemonFC"It’s sad that KDE is continuing to support a service which is now coated in server side paywalls and DRM. It would be nice if they stuck to free software ideals just chose to remove the Last.FM plugin and salt the Earth of these parasites. Oh well."Sep 12 07:54
oiaohmHow do you think amarok gets funding.Sep 12 07:55
twitter1I did not think funding was requiredSep 12 07:56
twitter1Remove last.fm yourself.Sep 12 07:57
DaemonFCtwitter1: Doesn't this remind you of the kind of parasiteware that tags along in Windows Media Player and wants your credit card number?Sep 12 07:57
twitter1I don't know, have not seen it.  "Internet Radio" has been crushed and I no longer expect decent things from the US.Sep 12 07:58
twitter1good internet radio may still come from abroadSep 12 07:58
twitter1it would be better if you spent your time protesting the stupid laws that have gotten us to this point.Sep 12 07:58
twitter1always nice to look at these, http://bayimg.com/CAAmOaAbE   http://bayimg.com/CaAMPaaBESep 12 07:59
DaemonFCthe official Last.FM client still worksSep 12 08:00
twitter1idiot Sarkozi actually does something right, even if it is just a tax, http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-jul-oct.html#11 September 2009 (France wants to lead world in cutting carbon emmissions)Sep 12 08:12
twitter1France can afford to do that because they have lots of nuclear power and reprocessingSep 12 08:13
twitter1Ugh.  "Upgrading" Vista to Vista 7 can take all day!  http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/09/microsoft-upgrade-to-windows-7-can-take-up-to-a-day.arsSep 12 08:15
twitter1worst upgrade ever!Sep 12 08:15
tessierReprocessing is brilliant.Sep 12 08:15
tessiertwitter1: It takes a long time to upload all of your personal info to Microsoft.Sep 12 08:15
tessierEspecially if you have lots of pr0n.Sep 12 08:15
twitter1reprocessing is smart, but it is expensive.  In the short run, it was cheaper to do it like the US did.  Now we have all of this depleted uranium sitting around ... what to do?  Make dumb bombs.  It can't get dumber than that.Sep 12 08:17
twitter1Only M$ could suck this hard ->  Microsoft really did time an upgrade that took 20 hours and 20 minutes. That's with 650GB of data, 40 applications, on mid-end hardware, and during a 32-bit upgrade. We don't even want to know how long it would take if Microsoft had bothered doing the same test with low-end hardware.Sep 12 08:18
twitter1WTF does all of your data have to do with upgrade time.  Can't they just leave the /home partition alone?  ;-)Sep 12 08:19
twitter1Is 40 applications really a lot in the Windows world?Sep 12 08:20
twitter1povertySep 12 08:20
twitter1like a bowl of rice a day povertySep 12 08:20
twitter1and it takes 20 hours to cook the bowl of rice.Sep 12 08:21
twitter1Wow, just Wow.Sep 12 08:21
DaemonFCit only took me about half an hour to install Windows 7Sep 12 08:21
DaemonFCupgrading an OS on top of an earlier version brings problems, that's not jsut a Windows thingSep 12 08:22
DaemonFCyou're always better off installing cleanSep 12 08:22
twitter1or just wiping windowsSep 12 08:23
DaemonFCKonqueror still sucks :DSep 12 08:23
twitter1You can always run IE6 in Wine, DaemonFCSep 12 08:24
twitter1Just make a backup for .wine for when IE gets hosed.Sep 12 08:25
DaemonFCtwitter1: Konqueror is the buggist browser I think I've ever seenSep 12 08:25
DaemonFC*buggiestSep 12 08:25
twitter1everything is buggy for youSep 12 08:26
DaemonFCimplementation gapsSep 12 08:26
DaemonFCnobody seems to mind them in open sourceSep 12 08:26
twitter1I never seem to notice like you do.Sep 12 08:27
DaemonFCopen source is like that old joke where the guy goes to the doctor and says "It hurts when I move my arm like this" and the doctor replies "Then don't move your arm like that"Sep 12 08:27
DaemonFCit's like everytime something doesn't work at all, you're supposed to just give up ever tryingto use that feature ever againSep 12 08:27
DaemonFCdoesn't that ever get old?Sep 12 08:28
DaemonFCdoesn't swiss cheese gaps in features ever bother you?Sep 12 08:29
DaemonFCthen comes the "It was free, so you can't complain" retortSep 12 08:30
DaemonFCthe analogy for that might be getting a house for free that was condemnedSep 12 08:30
schestowitzWow. Great footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ba-nwG7Xu50&feature=relatedSep 12 08:30
DaemonFCI really hate to say it, but Linux is 10 years behind in voice and video over IPSep 12 08:31
DaemonFCI remember effortlessly using VOIP on Windows 98Sep 12 08:31
DaemonFCif that's a gauge, I should get Ustream in Linux around 2020Sep 12 08:32
schestowitzWhat's my cousin doing uploading videos..? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5Oxy2NUy_c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hucFg1x9n7U&NR=1Sep 12 08:33
DaemonFCI was evaluating one of those Zonbu Linux operating systems like what they put on their cheap little "net top" systemsSep 12 08:33
DaemonFCI noticed they were careful to put Skype icons all over the placeSep 12 08:33
DaemonFC:DSep 12 08:33
DaemonFCschestowitz: What protocols does Kopete work with regarding webcam? I noticed it has a setup screen for your webcamSep 12 08:34
DaemonFCbut it doesn't work over WLMSep 12 08:34
schestowitzDaemonFC: haven'\t tried itSep 12 08:41
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-7YWYXG22USep 12 08:43
schestowitzSO weird what one can find on YouTube..Sep 12 08:45
twitter1Slashdot has changed their submissions page and it sucks.Sep 12 08:47
twitter1You can't chose a link for your name anymore... instead it uses your email.Sep 12 08:48
twitter1All the recent stories have people's email instead of a link.Sep 12 08:48
twitter1That's called Vista -> DaemonFC: the analogy for that might be getting a house for free that was condemnedSep 12 08:49
twitter1DeamonFC, ever the troll.Sep 12 08:50
DaemonFCit would be nice if they really did port all of KDE to WindowsSep 12 08:52
DaemonFCI've built it through Cygwin beforeSep 12 08:52
twitter1Well, that does it for me.  Slashdot can fix submissions or go to hell.Sep 12 08:53
twitter1The trolls get their wish.  I'm out of there rather than have my email published.Sep 12 08:53
DaemonFCtwitter1: You can just make disposable Gmail accountsSep 12 08:53
DaemonFCone for each of your hundred personalitiesSep 12 08:54
twitter1nope, that's not good enough for me.Sep 12 08:54
twitter1and I never had hundreds, like your friends at WE and M$.Sep 12 08:54
twitter1just a few, to prove the pointSep 12 08:54
DaemonFCtwitter1: You use the same methods they doSep 12 08:55
DaemonFChow does that make you better?Sep 12 08:55
twitter1it's what they do with the methods that count, DaemonFC.Sep 12 08:55
DaemonFCtwitter1: You're still defrauding peopleSep 12 08:55
DaemonFCso you're no betterSep 12 08:55
twitter1They lie, slander and censor.  I tell the truth and evade censorship.  If you can't tell the difference, I suggest you get a better moral compass.Sep 12 08:56
DaemonFCyou lie, slander, and censorSep 12 08:56
DaemonFCso what's the difference?Sep 12 08:56
twitter1what lie have I ever told?Sep 12 08:57
twitter1who have I censored?Sep 12 08:57
twitter1slander is a malicious lie, told to damage.  I have never done that.Sep 12 08:57
DaemonFCwell, signing up for 100 accounts on Slashdot with the purpose of trying to make your side of the argument more "populated" is akin to lyingSep 12 08:57
DaemonFCit's deceitful and dishonestSep 12 08:57
twitter1no, it's not.Sep 12 08:57
DaemonFCit's up thereSep 12 08:57
twitter1I told everyone that I was doing it before I did it.Sep 12 08:58
twitter1years before I did it.Sep 12 08:58
twitter1:)Sep 12 08:58
twitter1you will have to find a better example of lying than thatSep 12 08:58
twitter1I'm waiting .....Sep 12 08:58
DaemonFCwell, if your cause is jsut, you shouldn't have to resort to misrepresenting yourselves to get it acrossSep 12 08:59
DaemonFC*justSep 12 08:59
twitter1if my cause is just, I'm bullet proof too?  Bullshit.Sep 12 08:59
DaemonFCyou're still deceiving peopleSep 12 09:00
twitter1Astroturfers burried twitter to the point of invisiblity.Sep 12 09:00
DaemonFCwhich shows that you know you're wrongSep 12 09:00
twitter1not at all.Sep 12 09:00
DaemonFCjsut because you have to do itSep 12 09:00
twitter1What it shows is that your have nothing better to assail me with, other than trying to escape censorship.  Pathetic, troll.Sep 12 09:00
DaemonFCyou troll SlashdotSep 12 09:01
DaemonFCand try to pass yourself off as people they haven't banned yetSep 12 09:01
DaemonFC:)Sep 12 09:01
DaemonFCso you can lie about anyone you have an axe to grind overSep 12 09:01
twitter1show me a lie, ass.Sep 12 09:02
DaemonFCmake it seem more credible because there's "so many of", well, youSep 12 09:02
DaemonFCthat say the same thingSep 12 09:02
DaemonFC:)Sep 12 09:02
twitter1you are repeating yourself.Sep 12 09:03
twitter1but it's not getting any better.Sep 12 09:03
DaemonFCyeah, at least I'm using the same identity while doing it I guessSep 12 09:03
DaemonFCbetter than some peopleSep 12 09:03
twitter1I'm sure you are well paid for this.Sep 12 09:03
DaemonFCfor what?Sep 12 09:04
twitter1perhaps not that well paid, but better than your skill set warrantsSep 12 09:04
twitter1paid to troll and harass, that's what.Sep 12 09:04
DaemonFCmaybe they should pay youSep 12 09:04
DaemonFCyou make more of an effort after allSep 12 09:04
DaemonFCtell you what I'll doSep 12 09:05
DaemonFCI'll get in touch with my superiors at Area 51Sep 12 09:05
DaemonFCand we'll see if we can make you a deputy or somethingSep 12 09:05
twitter1eh, some clerk at WE will sooner serve you a pink slip.Sep 12 09:06
twitter1M$ is running low on money these days.Sep 12 09:06
twitter1and their trolling efforts have not helped much.  mostly backfired.Sep 12 09:06
twitter1their insistence on "mind control" and invading channels of communication are really obnoxiousSep 12 09:07
twitter1the more they make things suck, the more people hate them and escapeSep 12 09:07
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #NicholasNegroponte Blames “Giants Who View Children As a Market” http://bit.ly/1RJhuY #olpc #greedSep 12 09:14
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DaemonFCtwitter1: http://lunduke.com/?p=429Sep 12 09:53
schestowitzDon't link to anti-Linux sites...Sep 12 09:58
DaemonFCit's the truthSep 12 09:59
schestowitzNope, it's attention-seeking FUDSep 12 09:59
schestowitzI wrote about this at the timeSep 12 09:59
schestowitzHe's a Windows userSep 12 09:59
DaemonFCI want to kill whenever I have to make my laptop work with a projectorSep 12 09:59
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DaemonFCschestowitz: But around 7:15, he really starts talking about what really pisses me offSep 12 10:01
DaemonFCso after like 7 minutes of screwing around trying to get the projector to work, he starts talking about the audio stackSep 12 10:01
Omar87HiSep 12 10:03
DaemonFCit's absolutely right, when you have three or four sound servers that people use and two completely different multimedia frameworks, and some applications that don't even use the sound server and bypass it and lock it up and everything that is trying to make sound ends up in a pile upSep 12 10:05
DaemonFCwell, it's a disaster is what it isSep 12 10:05
DaemonFCso Linux and audio are like an eight lane highway with no direction markersSep 12 10:06
DaemonFCthen when you have to deal with crippled versions of programs like VLC that become worthless to you because someone has a vendetta against AAC and that's all that Justin.tv understands, you end up like meSep 12 10:07
DaemonFCbecause after I spent several hours trying to figure out how to get VLC to capture my microphone to begin with, it takes a shit on me and tells me it has no AAC encoderSep 12 10:08
DaemonFCwhich is just unreasonableSep 12 10:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Latest Wins for #OpenDocument #Format http://ping.fm/Ra9te #odfSep 12 10:10
DaemonFCthe workarounds in Compiz that he mentions are in plain sight when you use CCSM to configure itSep 12 10:10
DaemonFCthe plugins are represented by a bandaidSep 12 10:11
DaemonFCsome of them are scattered around thoughSep 12 10:11
DaemonFCthere's workarounds that hack around GNOME stupidity, there's workarounds for X stupidity, there's workarounds for Wine bugsSep 12 10:11
DaemonFCand they don't always workSep 12 10:11
schestowitzI must be doing something wrongSep 12 10:11
schestowitzAUdio just works for meSep 12 10:11
schestowitzDaemonFC: if you want to befriend those Windows users who mock Linux, then fine, go to BryanSep 12 10:12
schestowitzDon't bring it here, pleaseSep 12 10:12
DaemonFCschestowitz: that's what horrifies me about Ubuntu and GNOMESep 12 10:12
DaemonFCthey're centering around the worst ways to do everythingSep 12 10:12
DaemonFCPulseaudio and Compiz FusionSep 12 10:12
schestowitzKDE has it all built inSep 12 10:12
schestowitzDesktop effect and sounds systemSep 12 10:13
schestowitz*soundSep 12 10:13
schestowitzThey give it new names tooSep 12 10:13
schestowitzAnd it's there in the panel well integrated with everythingSep 12 10:13
schestowitzbrbSep 12 10:13
schestowitzI need to make postsSep 12 10:13
DaemonFCKwin is much faster and lighter, and less problematic than Compiz Fusion because it was designed to work with KDESep 12 10:13
DaemonFCnot tacked on after the fact by an outside groupSep 12 10:13
DaemonFCif more things on Linux worked that way, it would be greatSep 12 10:14
DaemonFCif more Linux distributions made the choice to feature things like that by default, it would be greatSep 12 10:14
DaemonFCbut I am so not a fan of what Ubuntu and all these other GNOME distributions are doing right now because it just amount to working aorund and trying to cover up a rotten system underneathSep 12 10:15
DaemonFCit's gotten to the point that they really can't hide it anymoreSep 12 10:16
DaemonFCCompiz and Pulseaudio amount to buckets under a leaking roof being marketed as featuresSep 12 10:17
DaemonFCagain @ 15:30Sep 12 10:25
DaemonFCIf there's only going to be one package, it's going to be an Ubuntu packageSep 12 10:26
DaemonFClmao "Unfortunately, not all of us can buy a $7,000 HP workstation + a $4,000 license to sit and edit our home movies"Sep 12 10:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Where #Apple Resembles #Microsoft http://ping.fm/gC9GJSep 12 10:32
*Wodenhelm (n=Wodenhel@pool-72-66-210-237.ronkva.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovellSep 12 10:34
WodenhelmGreetingsSep 12 10:34
DaemonFCschestowitz: I do like most of KDE 4.3Sep 12 10:35
DaemonFCthe one area of weakness I still see is KopeteSep 12 10:35
DaemonFCit's becoming the Pidgin of KDE rapidlySep 12 10:35
DaemonFCit used to support audio/video chat on MSN, on Yahoo, and it doesn't nowSep 12 10:36
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DaemonFCso in some ways, the KDE desktop is actually regressing in features, and the people that could be fixing things that people care about, like that, are making microblogging widgetsSep 12 10:36
DaemonFCand four different application menusSep 12 10:37
DaemonFCthey have a great platform, but that doesn't help the user directlySep 12 10:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Windows 7 parties - Theres a special one planed by some people I know. They have applied, I wonder if Microsoft will work out who they are?Sep 12 10:38
WodenhelmYeah, an app isnt much without functionality...Sep 12 10:38
Eruaranmake a contributionSep 12 10:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] I don't think that particular Windows party will be quite how Microsoft envisioned the promotion...Sep 12 10:39
DaemonFCI don't think, at the end of the day, people care about widgetsSep 12 10:39
DaemonFCsome are really useful, most aren'tSep 12 10:39
EruaranNot on platforms where they are an afterthoughtSep 12 10:39
WodenhelmA Microsoft party? Sounds like the sorta thing I'd wanna crash :DSep 12 10:39
DaemonFCand it's becoming like the Vista desktop gadget gallerySep 12 10:39
DaemonFCwhere 80% of them are crapSep 12 10:39
Wodenhelm<--BrokenWindows_  what's up _goblinSep 12 10:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Shame even I don't even know who they are...it will be as much of a surprise for me...looking forward to launch date!Sep 12 10:40
DaemonFCfrom a user's point of view, your average KDE distro will be very inconsistent, some things work great, some things are more gap than implementationSep 12 10:41
DaemonFCWindows is consistently mediocreSep 12 10:41
DaemonFCit makes it kind of a tough callSep 12 10:42
DaemonFCI did notice a KDE plugin that resembles Aero PeekSep 12 10:44
DaemonFCwhich is niceSep 12 10:44
DaemonFCit would be nice if KDE would do bug bountiesSep 12 10:46
DaemonFCand feature bountiesSep 12 10:46
DaemonFClike say "We need X dollars to make this happen"Sep 12 10:47
DaemonFCnot just "Send $20 and next version we'll have FIVE application menus!"Sep 12 10:47
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WodenhelmlolSep 12 10:48
DaemonFCschestowitz: It's like I always have said, when nobody owns a problem, it never gets solvedSep 12 10:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Question: How many Twitter accounts does #Microsoft actually have? Seems to me that many pro-MS comments are twitted by MS affiliated..hmmSep 12 10:49
DaemonFCthey need to tag gaps and set bountiesSep 12 10:49
DaemonFCor KDE 5 will have 20 application launchers and no webcam supportSep 12 10:49
*Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?")Sep 12 10:49
WodenhelmBNc, reminds me of alot of religious propaganda I'd see on myspace during Bush's yearsSep 12 10:50
WodenhelmOfficial messages sent down through the ranks to make it look like "actual people" posted itSep 12 10:50
schestowitzHey, WodenhelmSep 12 10:50
WodenhelmWhat's going onSep 12 10:50
DaemonFCWodenhelm: That would be twitter1 through twitter1000 you speak ofSep 12 10:51
DaemonFChe's quit the busy beeSep 12 10:51
DaemonFCB-)Sep 12 10:51
DaemonFC*quiteSep 12 10:51
WodenhelmlølSep 12 10:51
DaemonFCI stumbled onto someone's blog a while back who was talking about schestowitz that about made me fall out of my chairSep 12 10:52
DaemonFC"at least....as much as anyone who has ever had a blog has contributed to free software"Sep 12 10:52
*Omar87 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Sep 12 10:52
schestowitzWodenhelm: BNc aggregates twitter twits from people who ae regulars hereSep 12 10:53
WodenhelmGot'chaSep 12 10:53
WodenhelmAs long as IRC's been around I've never really used it. Shows what I know lolSep 12 10:54
DaemonFCWodenhelm: And roy makes the trains run on time tooSep 12 10:54
DaemonFChe's really quite fabulousSep 12 10:54
DaemonFC:)Sep 12 10:55
WodenhelmAnyhoo, s'ppose I'll introduce myself. I just started the campaign "Broken Windows" earlier this week. Had the idea in my head forever, done it on an individual basis, but I finally figured that the timing was right to go "organized" with itSep 12 10:56
WodenhelmIn short, "anything but Windows"Sep 12 10:57
DaemonFCWodenhelm: I would be using FreeBSD were it not for NvidiaSep 12 10:57
DaemonFCI've got it on one of my laptopsSep 12 10:57
WodenhelmYeah I messed around with PC-BSD recently, I thought it was pretty damn neatSep 12 10:57
DaemonFCWodenhelm: Yes, very easy to adjust to from WindowsSep 12 10:58
DaemonFCI saw a boxed set of PC-BSD at FrysSep 12 10:58
WodenhelmI ditched Windows back in like '04 or something, been using Mac since then, but I've seen how some camps of alternative OS' will quarrel, figured we outta put all that aside and "unite against the common enemy," so to saySep 12 10:59
WodenhelmHeh they got it boxed now?Sep 12 10:59
DaemonFCyepSep 12 10:59
DaemonFCwith official support tooSep 12 10:59
DaemonFCthe box was prettySep 12 10:59
WodenhelmSweetSep 12 10:59
WodenhelmGlad to see them able to pull that offSep 12 11:00
DaemonFCevery once in a while you see some crazy FreeBSD user running GNOMESep 12 11:00
DaemonFCI didn't even know if it was possible for the longest time jsut because it's never doneSep 12 11:00
DaemonFCseems like every BSD system I've ever seen runs KDESep 12 11:01
WodenhelmDifferent tastes I guessSep 12 11:01
DaemonFCwell, KDE has really overtaken GNOMESep 12 11:01
WodenhelmI think that's what PC-BSD uses aint it?Sep 12 11:01
DaemonFCthere's still some things I would like to see that never survived 3>4Sep 12 11:01
DaemonFCWodenhelm: YesSep 12 11:02
DaemonFCschestowitz: Mandriva 2010's GNOME desktop works, but their KDE desktop is badly broken at this pointSep 12 11:02
DaemonFCand takes 10 gigabytes I might mentionSep 12 11:02
Wodenhelm10 gigs?Sep 12 11:03
DaemonFCit's in sad sad shapeSep 12 11:03
DaemonFCWodenhelm: Yes, they're packing it full of crap from GNOMESep 12 11:03
DaemonFCyou may as well jsut install both if you're going to use Mandriva with KDESep 12 11:03
WodenhelmAh I seeSep 12 11:03
DaemonFCtheir GNOME desktop is 2.8 gigsSep 12 11:03
WodenhelmTrying to put it all together in one package or somethingSep 12 11:03
DaemonFCwell, I just don't like how they've done itSep 12 11:04
DaemonFCthey need gstreamer so the Fluendo codecs that you buy with Powerpack workSep 12 11:04
DaemonFCthey've added PulseaudioSep 12 11:04
DaemonFCthey have Firefox and an entire GTK+ theming engine for that, and while they were at it they put in Cheese and Totem as wellSep 12 11:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] My take on: #BBC Worldwide is Run by Microsoft Folks http://ping.fm/cVk1mSep 12 11:05
DaemonFCit has just gotten incredibly hugeSep 12 11:06
DaemonFCI think one of the things that's kept that from happening with Kubuntu is that they're insistent on keeping it all on one CDSep 12 11:07
DaemonFCMandriva has an entire DVD of things to choose fromSep 12 11:07
DaemonFCreally one CD should be more than enough for an entire working systemSep 12 11:07
WodenhelmThat's the main reason I've been showing off Linux Mint for my unsavvy friends to switch toSep 12 11:08
DaemonFCespecially with SquashFSSep 12 11:08
WodenhelmIt's the full package, easy enough for the average user to use, all fits on a single disc, all works "right out the box"Sep 12 11:08
DaemonFCyeah, but 64-bit support is not a priority to themSep 12 11:08
DaemonFCso that came like 3 months after Ubuntu Jaunty was outSep 12 11:09
WodenhelmNor to anyone I know in my town lolSep 12 11:09
oiaohmOk how did you end up with 10 Giga bytes for KDE.Sep 12 11:10
oiaohmMy OS partition is not that large and I am running KDE 4.3.1Sep 12 11:10
DaemonFCoiaohm: sized up the files on disk right after installing MandrivaSep 12 11:12
DaemonFCI didn't say all KDE distros were that bloatedSep 12 11:13
DaemonFCKDE is larger than GNOME, but not by that muchSep 12 11:13
oiaohmNote I have KDE and Gnome installed and I am only up to 7 GB.Sep 12 11:13
oiaohmAnd I have extras in there too.Sep 12 11:13
oiaohmReally what have they done wrong.Sep 12 11:13
DaemonFCoiaohm: everythingSep 12 11:14
DaemonFCit's a disasterSep 12 11:14
DaemonFCthere's jsut no other way to say itSep 12 11:14
DaemonFC*justSep 12 11:14
oiaohmOnly thing I am still missing at this stage is mp3 playback in kde 4.3.1 but I don't think that is going to add 3 G.Sep 12 11:17
DaemonFCKonqueror is still roughSep 12 11:18
DaemonFCI keep an eye on it though cause it does do some cool thingsSep 12 11:18
DaemonFCI like how it browses folders of MP3s, or FTP serversSep 12 11:18
oiaohmAt some point konqueror has to be killed.Sep 12 11:19
oiaohmits getting harder and harder to maintain.Sep 12 11:19
oiaohmits like the last really badly designed code in KDE.Sep 12 11:19
DaemonFCoiaohm: Yeah, Webkit is replacing it as the centralized rendering engineSep 12 11:20
DaemonFCmost distros are too ashamed of it to make it the default browserSep 12 11:20
DaemonFCso it's really losing its place in KDESep 12 11:20
DaemonFCeven Kubuntu has a link to install Firefox nowSep 12 11:21
trmancokonq needs webkitSep 12 11:23
DaemonFCbut interestingly, Firefox does not work right in KubuntuSep 12 11:23
oiaohmCannot be done trmancoSep 12 11:23
trmancowhy is that?Sep 12 11:24
DaemonFCmouse positioning is offSep 12 11:24
oiaohmkonq code is too interlinked to khml TallkenSep 12 11:24
oiaohmopps trmancoSep 12 11:24
trmancooiaohm: is already has some webkit supportSep 12 11:24
oiaohmDoes not work right trmancoSep 12 11:24
trmancobut it's really in alpha stageSep 12 11:24
trmancoyou are rightSep 12 11:25
oiaohmThe developers behind that I have been talking to.Sep 12 11:25
oiaohmThey have got to the point konq has to be scraped at some point.Sep 12 11:25
trmancokhtml is about 4 times slower than webkitSep 12 11:25
oiaohmAnd a replacement made.Sep 12 11:25
trmancowe already have replacementsSep 12 11:25
trmancoaroraSep 12 11:25
oiaohmarora does not have all the features of konq that people love.Sep 12 11:26
trmancoand some other browser that I can't remember the name nowSep 12 11:26
trmancolet it matureSep 12 11:26
DaemonFCArora is still better than KonquerorSep 12 11:26
DaemonFCbut it's still frustratingly limited in some waysSep 12 11:26
oiaohmI did not say what order replacement and scrapping had to happen in.Sep 12 11:26
oiaohmJust at some point konq is going to disappear for good.Sep 12 11:27
trmancothat's a shameSep 12 11:27
WodenhelmThus is evolutionSep 12 11:27
trmancoit has some pretty neat features in browsingSep 12 11:27
oiaohmBit like the kde 3.x line scrapping.Sep 12 11:28
oiaohmPeople were majorally upset at first.Sep 12 11:28
oiaohmThey are now starting to get over it.Sep 12 11:28
oiaohmGreat reason why I cannot play my music is that I am access them inside compressed zip files.Sep 12 11:43
oiaohmHow to be looking in completely the wrong place for problem for the last 3 hours.Sep 12 11:44
WodenhelmlolSep 12 11:45
oiaohmapparently new kde is not avfs compadible.Sep 12 11:45
oiaohmMind you other than that major head scratching kde 4.3.1 is nice and fast.Sep 12 11:57
WodenhelmI'm heading out, catch yall laterSep 12 11:58
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why #Microsoft ’s #CodePlex Foundation is a Promoter of #ProprietarySoftware http://ping.fm/aDCjTSep 12 12:00
schestowitzoiaohm: part of it is to do with Linux advancementsSep 12 12:00
schestowitzSO I've read yesterdaySep 12 12:00
oiaohmI have not change core kernel yet.Sep 12 12:00
schestowitzIt's easy to give the kernel credit for DE/WM improvements, and vice versaSep 12 12:00
oiaohmKDE 4.2 and KDE 4.3 under the same kernel.Sep 12 12:01
oiaohmSame with XfceSep 12 12:01
oiaohmI am suspect that KDE 4.3 is faster than XfceSep 12 12:01
schestowitzCan it be true?Sep 12 12:01
schestowitzEye candy is usually inversely proportional to speedSep 12 12:01
schestowitzBut Qt made improvementsSep 12 12:02
oiaohmXfce is not the fastest beast.Sep 12 12:02
schestowitzAlso, it depends on hardwareSep 12 12:02
schestowitzThere is no universal measureSep 12 12:02
schestowitzSome DEs can use a lot of RAM for hashing a stuffSep 12 12:02
schestowitzSo a machine with a lot of RAM would behave wellSep 12 12:02
schestowitzWhereas another DE may just use more CPU cyclesSep 12 12:02
*Tallken has quit (Remote closed the connection)Sep 12 12:02
schestowitzSo without specs and an array of settings you can't really compare anythingSep 12 12:03
schestowitzToo many free parametersSep 12 12:03
DaemonFCXFCE really sucksSep 12 12:03
DaemonFCthey've set out to recreate GNOME from scratchSep 12 12:04
oiaohmFor my system 4 g of ram 2ghz  amd 64 is not running to bad.Sep 12 12:04
oiaohmXFCE is slightly faster on mine than Gnome.Sep 12 12:04
oiaohmI also have a 4 year old video card.  But it was a good expensive nvidia in its time.Sep 12 12:05
DaemonFCyeah, you sacrifice half your features for a 1% performance increase, maybeSep 12 12:05
DaemonFCthat's jsut stupidSep 12 12:05
DaemonFCPhoronix tested Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu a while backSep 12 12:05
DaemonFCXubuntu wasn't significantly faster or more efficient than GNOME or KDESep 12 12:06
DaemonFCwhat it is, is a huge pain in the assSep 12 12:06
DaemonFC*XFCESep 12 12:06
oiaohmNothing for low ram usage and pure speed beats ratpoison as a wm but it make anything else look user friendly.Sep 12 12:07
trmanco11:24AM  up 890 days, 19:32, 45 user, load averages: 18, 15, 15Sep 12 12:09
trmanco:OSep 12 12:09
DaemonFCKDE 4.3 is really the point where the 4.x branch is worth upgrading toSep 12 12:09
DaemonFCit's been a rought 18 months but 4.3 is useableSep 12 12:09
DaemonFC*roughSep 12 12:10
oiaohmI stayed with kde 3.5 until now and only playing with KDE 4.x in a chroot.Sep 12 12:11
oiaohmI think kde 4.x has basically caught up with KDE 3.5 at 4.3.   Now on it will be able to go just into improvement mode.Sep 12 12:11
DaemonFCother than eye candy, I really don't know what 4.x has doneSep 12 12:12
oiaohmMost of the KDE 4.x line at this point has been cleaning up the backend engines of KDE.Sep 12 12:12
oiaohmStuff users don't see.Sep 12 12:13
DaemonFCremind me of a former Netscape guy that was against the "start from scratch" thing that ruined NetscapeSep 12 12:13
DaemonFChe made an example of FTP codeSep 12 12:13
oiaohmKDE 3.5 is shockly evil in its back end code.Sep 12 12:13
DaemonFC"That may have been 50,000 lines of ugly code, but it was 50,000 lines that worked and it took us years to get it all working"Sep 12 12:13
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.91.253.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovellSep 12 12:14
DaemonFCI'd rather have MSN and Yahoo webcam working than eye candy, but eye candy is niceSep 12 12:14
DaemonFCit's pleasant to look at while my webcam is functionless under their desktop environmentSep 12 12:14
oiaohmMajor changes in KDE 4.x has been the introduction of the code framework to go completely cross platform.Sep 12 12:15
DaemonFCmaybe they'll do something about MSN webcam support before the sun explodesSep 12 12:15
oiaohmKDE 3.5 is basically not unlinkable from X11 server.Sep 12 12:15
DaemonFCright after they get done polishing the chrome on the 100th application menuSep 12 12:15
DaemonFCand the 60th micronlogging widgetSep 12 12:15
oiaohmKDE 4.x could work happly connected up to a framebuffer supporing opengl.Sep 12 12:16
DaemonFCoiaohm: It doesn't Krash as much as KDE 3 did I guessSep 12 12:16
DaemonFCin fact, I have yet for the entire desktop to just die on meSep 12 12:16
trmancololSep 12 12:16
trmancoKrashSep 12 12:16
trmancoK-rash?Sep 12 12:17
oiaohmKDE 4.0 KDE 4.1 and KDE 4.2 have not been 100 percent stable.Sep 12 12:17
trmancoouchSep 12 12:17
oiaohmKDE 4.3 so far not seen a single seg fault.Sep 12 12:17
oiaohmWhat has been a common kde thing for a long time.Sep 12 12:17
oiaohmYes pure Kde words.  C becomes K in the KDE world a lot.Sep 12 12:18
DaemonFCIt's a faKt that any suffiKienty KompliKated program will Krash eventually, the Key is to not let it get you down beKause it happens to everybody now and thenSep 12 12:18
TallkenROFLSep 12 12:18
oiaohmSo you would not like the KDE mailing lists TallkenSep 12 12:18
Tallken:pSep 12 12:19
oiaohmThe K and G naming of programs goes back to the days when Gnome and KDE had 100 percent incompadible menu systems.Sep 12 12:19
trmancooiaohm: which one?Sep 12 12:19
oiaohmSome KDE guys took the idea too far.Sep 12 12:19
Tallkenmarked my first bug as a duplicate on launchpad ^^ feel so happy and so administrative :DSep 12 12:19
trmancoI subed to some of them, but maybe not the correct oneSep 12 12:19
DaemonFCI thinK Linus Torvalds Kommented quite KantanKerously about the krashing of his Kparts, he was not at all aKKreeable about the situKtionSep 12 12:20
oiaohmGeneral trmanco kde on at times you still get people in there over using K.Sep 12 12:20
trmancook, will subscribeSep 12 12:20
trmanco:|Sep 12 12:20
oiaohmIt was a lot more 8 years ago.Sep 12 12:21
oiaohmI still remember trying to get KDE and Gnome developers to agree on a common menu format.Sep 12 12:21
DaemonFCoiaohm: Schwans fixed their siteSep 12 12:21
oiaohmIt was wrong.  We will destroy the other one any how so why does compadiblity matter.Sep 12 12:22
DaemonFCat least well enough so that you can use browsers other than IE or FirefoxSep 12 12:22
oiaohmI guess just updated .net engine.Sep 12 12:22
*DaemonFC hates FirefoxSep 12 12:22
DaemonFCalmost as much as IESep 12 12:22
oiaohmI don't hate firefox as such.Sep 12 12:22
oiaohmI just wish it would merge the chrome ideas in sooner.Sep 12 12:23
DaemonFCoiaohm: I was disappointed that Opera only released Opera 10 with QT3Sep 12 12:23
DaemonFCthe weekly builds are still using QT4Sep 12 12:23
oiaohmkonq I hate.Sep 12 12:23
DaemonFCand they look a lot betterSep 12 12:23
oiaohmNothing in its design of konq makes it saveable.Sep 12 12:24
DaemonFCKonqueror is pitifulSep 12 12:24
oiaohmDesign of firefox is saveable.Sep 12 12:24
DaemonFCfor some reason my dad likes itSep 12 12:24
DaemonFCI was discussing it with him one day and he was going on and on about how much he likes KonquerorSep 12 12:25
oiaohmMajor overhaul but saveable.Sep 12 12:25
oiaohmDesign of IE is OK.  But management sux.Sep 12 12:25
oiaohmKeeping stupid things like activex around get IE into a lot of trouble.Sep 12 12:25
DaemonFCIE sucks, it has to support 4 different versions of the same rendering engine nowSep 12 12:25
DaemonFCthat's a lot of baggageSep 12 12:25
oiaohmThat is management issues.Sep 12 12:26
oiaohmBase Design was ok before management did stupid things like lets be incompadbile.Sep 12 12:26
DaemonFCOpera is the best browser for KDESep 12 12:29
DaemonFChands downSep 12 12:29
DaemonFCfastest, most compatible, most standards compliantSep 12 12:30
DaemonFCif it was open sourced, it would be on every KDE desktopSep 12 12:30
oiaohmBig reason why little support for QT from like likes of firefox was QT licence.Sep 12 12:33
DaemonFCwhat would be nice is if someone made a widget that could browse like Hulu and JoostSep 12 12:33
DaemonFCon the desktopSep 12 12:33
oiaohmBrowser options for KDE should slowly expand.Sep 12 12:34
DaemonFCright now there's not much of a contestSep 12 12:34
DaemonFCOpera smacks Konqueror down and what else is there?Sep 12 12:34
DaemonFC:PSep 12 12:34
trmancoaroraSep 12 12:36
trmancoat least it already kicks opera in html rendering :-PSep 12 12:36
trmancoand maybe speed tooSep 12 12:36
trmancoJS speedSep 12 12:37
DaemonFCcan't watch Hulu :)Sep 12 12:37
DaemonFCno middle click scrollSep 12 12:38
trmancowas it that? flashed based?Sep 12 12:38
DaemonFCI wonder who the people are that can't put middle click scroll in a browserSep 12 12:38
trmancoit's till in its early daysSep 12 12:38
schestowitzThe KDE microblogging widget seems to have some bugsSep 12 12:40
schestowitzI'll submit reports later, I thinkSep 12 12:40
oiaohmIts also really new.Sep 12 12:41
oiaohmIt was not in kde 4.2 schestowitzSep 12 12:41
schestowitzAh, it figuresSep 12 12:41
schestowitzThe widget focus is oddSep 12 12:41
schestowitzSometimes I have to click twice to focus properlySep 12 12:41
schestowitzAnd it can hog XSep 12 12:41
schestowitzIt looks great thoughSep 12 12:41
oiaohmIts basically a taste of the idea KDE is working on.Sep 12 12:42
trmancouse choqokSep 12 12:42
schestowitzIs it written as JS/CSS/HTML?Sep 12 12:42
schestowitzLike those widgets that the likes of Apple and mobile devices do?Sep 12 12:42
oiaohmI would have to look I think its python.Sep 12 12:42
oiaohmLot of apple widgets do work on plasmaSep 12 12:42
trmancoit various languagesSep 12 12:42
trmancois goes from c++,javascript, python to rubySep 12 12:43
trmancohttp://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/PlasmaSep 12 12:43
*trmanco see the javascript entrySep 12 12:43
DaemonFChttp://games.venturebeat.com/2009/09/10/video-game-sales-for-sixth-consecutive-month/Sep 12 12:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft ’s Latest Mischiefs Justify Need to Watch the #PatentTrolls < http://ping.fm/ld4n9 >Sep 12 12:52
oiaohmHmm looks like MS personal are going to turn up to take care of the hyper-v drivers.Sep 12 12:52
oiaohmIn the Linux kernel.Sep 12 12:52
oiaohmI wish they were not.Sep 12 12:52
DaemonFChttp://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/11/apple_open_sources_snow_leopards_grand_central_dispatch.htmlSep 12 12:53
oiaohmThat is useful code.  Fairly platform netural too.Sep 12 12:53
schestowitzIt's for Hyper-VSep 12 12:53
schestowitzNot helpfulSep 12 12:53
schestowitzUnless you're NovellSep 12 12:53
schestowitzOr a vmware haterSep 12 12:53
schestowitzor xen/kvm antagonistSep 12 12:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Overheard: "I think #kde 4.x has basically caught up with KDE 3.5 at 4.3." (credit: oiaohm)Sep 12 12:54
oiaohmhttp://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/46940/  Ok RCU code in 2.6.32 is reducing.Sep 12 13:02
DaemonFCdeath to the big kernel lockSep 12 13:05
DaemonFC:PSep 12 13:05
oiaohmIt's much easier to come out and say "something's broken" if you know some latency issue is not due to buggy hardware or applications or orange bunnies with a cosmic ray gun. << From http://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/46808/ Some linux developers make some fun comments.Sep 12 13:08
schestowitzSomeone has the same deficiency as me... https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=206728Sep 12 13:10
oiaohmSo far fanotify code is coming along well.  Ie the future virus scanner interface for Linux.Sep 12 13:14
oiaohmNothing in it that makes me want to kill someone.Sep 12 13:14
DaemonFCDebian 6 will feature the first official Desbian kFreeBSDSep 12 13:15
oiaohmMuch to the annoyance of a lot of BSD people DaemonFCSep 12 13:18
DaemonFCI don't see whySep 12 13:19
DaemonFCthe BSD license is far less restrictive than GPLSep 12 13:19
DaemonFCit's basically there to do what you want withSep 12 13:19
DaemonFCpeople that complain that you did what the license told you that you could are moronsSep 12 13:19
oiaohmOk don't leave wine vlc running.Sep 12 13:25
oiaohmThe buger was sitting in background eating up 50 percent of the cpu time.Sep 12 13:25
trmancohehSep 12 13:26
trmancovlc on ubuntu drags some gnome depsSep 12 13:26
trmancoIO don't know whym if it's a Qt appSep 12 13:26
oiaohmDefine gnome deps.Sep 12 13:26
trmancoI'll pasteSep 12 13:26
trmancogive me a momentSep 12 13:27
oiaohmIf you mean gstreamer that is fine.Sep 12 13:27
oiaohmgstreamer is a audio processing engine used by gnome and KDE.Sep 12 13:27
trmanconoSep 12 13:27
trmancoin kde it's xine/phononSep 12 13:27
trmancoxine is better :-PSep 12 13:27
trmancotrmanco@trmanco-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get install vlcSep 12 13:28
trmancoReading package lists... DoneSep 12 13:28
trmancoBuilding dependency treeSep 12 13:28
trmancoReading state information... DoneSep 12 13:28
trmancoThe following extra packages will be installed:Sep 12 13:28
trmanco  gconf2 gconf2-common liba52-0.7.4 libass3 libavformat52 libcdio7 libdca0 libdvbpsi4 libdvdnav4 libdvdread4Sep 12 13:28
trmanco  libebml0 libenca0 libfaad0 libgconf2-4 libglade2-0 libidl0 libiso9660-5 liblircclient0 liblua5.1-0 libmatroska0Sep 12 13:28
trmanco  libmpeg2-4 libnotify1 liborbit2 libsdl-image1.2 libsexy2 libshout3 libstartup-notification0 libswscale0 libtarSep 12 13:28
trmanco  libtwolame0 libv4l-0 libvcdinfo0 libvlc2 libvlccore2 libwnck-common libwnck22 libx264-65 libxcb-keysyms0 libxres1Sep 12 13:28
trmanco  notification-daemon vlc-data vlc-noxSep 12 13:28
trmancowhy do I need notificatin-daemon?Sep 12 13:28
trmancoand gconf2Sep 12 13:28
trmancoif vlc is a Qt appSep 12 13:28
oiaohmnotification deamon is used in KDE 4.x for systray.Sep 12 13:29
oiaohmgconf I cannot answer.Sep 12 13:29
trmancoisn't that kNotify?Sep 12 13:30
oiaohmKde is going desktop netural in places.Sep 12 13:31
oiaohmsystray has moved to a dbus system.Sep 12 13:31
trmancoisn't that a good thing (dbus)?Sep 12 13:32
oiaohmIt is a good thing.  Particularly when it will allow gnome and kde both to use exactly the same interface for things.Sep 12 13:33
oiaohmBut it does mean some parts you would think are gnome are no longer just gnome.Sep 12 13:33
*schestowitz listens to good episide: http://www.twit.tv/floss85Sep 12 13:34
oiaohmIts the changes that people don't notice like the merging of handling of system tray.Sep 12 13:38
oiaohmYet the differences make the news.Sep 12 13:39
oiaohmHmm nice swap effects between virtual desktops in kde4Sep 12 13:40
trmancoI just subscribed to a ton of kde listsSep 12 13:41
trmancothrough gmaneSep 12 13:41
Eruaran"If Linux does not influence your life in some way, you're probably dead. If you think nobody uses Linux, I'd check my pulse if I were you".Sep 12 13:44
trmancosource?Sep 12 13:45
EruaranmeSep 12 13:45
Eruaran:DSep 12 13:45
Eruaran:PSep 12 13:45
oiaohmEruaran: that is so true.Sep 12 13:45
trmancoahSep 12 13:45
trmancookSep 12 13:45
EruaranBut seriouslySep 12 13:45
trmanconext time don't put quotesSep 12 13:46
trmanco:-PSep 12 13:46
oiaohmI have not found a person yet who is not using linux someway.Sep 12 13:46
trmancodo I have permission to use it?Sep 12 13:46
EruaranWhen I go through the checkout at Woolworths, I know their POS is Linux based.Sep 12 13:46
EruaransureSep 12 13:46
*trmanco adds it to email sigSep 12 13:46
EruaranIf I play games on a PS3, I know it runs Linux.Sep 12 13:46
DaemonFCnot anymoreSep 12 13:46
EruaranIf I Google... I'm using LinuxSep 12 13:46
DaemonFCthe old model PS3 can run LinuxSep 12 13:47
EruaranI look across the room at the Netgear router... It rund Linux.Sep 12 13:47
Eruaran*runsSep 12 13:47
EruaranAn LG tv...Sep 12 13:47
EruaranLinuxSep 12 13:47
EruaranA TiVo...Sep 12 13:47
trmancoeven my crappy router runs linuxSep 12 13:47
trmancoever heard of "conceptronic"?Sep 12 13:48
EruaranGo to the movies and watch a blockbuster from Dreamworks, Lucasfilm or whatever... post production was done on Linux systemsSep 12 13:48
oiaohmRounters are normally linux or bsd.Sep 12 13:48
oiaohmroutersSep 12 13:48
oiaohmhighest percent are linux.Sep 12 13:48
EruaranNetgear ReadyNAS... LinuxSep 12 13:48
oiaohmGo to a bankSep 12 13:49
oiaohmHave a 70 percent chance you money is stored on a Linux server.Sep 12 13:49
EruaranThe local hospital doesn't use Linux... they use SolarisSep 12 13:49
oiaohmBasically not able to do business without Linux somewhere.Sep 12 13:49
Eruaran:PSep 12 13:49
oiaohmThey still would have some in there.Sep 12 13:50
oiaohmMostly in a router or something.Sep 12 13:50
EruaranahSep 12 13:50
Eruaranof courseSep 12 13:50
trmancooiaohm: not her :|Sep 12 13:51
EruaranAnd of course my PC runs LinuxSep 12 13:51
oiaohmBoy they cannot do australian schestowitzSep 12 13:51
DaemonFCmy bank uses Solaris servers and Windows XP clientsSep 12 13:51
DaemonFC:PSep 12 13:51
EruaranI'm changing banksSep 12 13:52
trmancohow can you check if your bank uses linux on servers? does the web interface count?Sep 12 13:52
DaemonFCtrmanco: netcraft should give you a list of what their servers runSep 12 13:52
trmancohear, I fail to find a bank that uses linux for homebankingSep 12 13:52
DaemonFCby subdomains evenSep 12 13:52
trmancoahSep 12 13:52
trmancoso yes, I fail to find a linux based bankSep 12 13:52
Eruaranall our webhosting is linuxSep 12 13:52
trmancoI'll askSep 12 13:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Existe algum banco em Portugal que use Linux nos seus servidores? Quem diz Linux, qualquer *nix serve...Sep 12 13:54
Eruarantrmanco, they'll yell HACKER! and have a security guard tackle you ;)Sep 12 13:55
trmancopftSep 12 13:55
trmancopoor security guardSep 12 13:55
Eruaran:PSep 12 13:55
trmancohis PC would never forgive himSep 12 13:56
trmanco:-PSep 12 13:56
EruaranlolSep 12 13:56
EruaranI dent, therefore I am.Sep 12 14:00
schestowitzoiaohm: no, they can'tSep 12 14:05
schestowitzTHey said "dingo" thoughSep 12 14:05
oiaohmhttp://www.infoworld.com/windows-pulse  Interesting numbersSep 12 14:09
oiaohmhttp://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/bizarre_cathedral_52  Been lucky so far have not had someone bring up this yet.Sep 12 14:15
trmancohttp://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev/browse_frm/thread/70563d33b38a6d5f#Sep 12 14:17
trmancohere is something interestingSep 12 14:18
*DaemonFC buys one of these for schestowitz:Sep 12 14:29
DaemonFChttp://www.amazon.com/Caldera-OpenLinux-eDesktop-2-4/dp/B00004RDLS/ref=sr_1_85?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1252762320&sr=1-85Sep 12 14:29
*lis` (n=lis@pub082136125055.dh-hfc.datazug.ch) has joined #boycottnovellSep 12 14:30
DaemonFCamazing how rent can keep going up even though less and less people can pay the rentSep 12 14:39
DaemonFCyou'd think that with demand going down, so would the priceSep 12 14:40
oiaohmDepends on how rich the people are.Sep 12 14:41
oiaohmOne of the towns I visited the shops were all owned by 2 famalies.Sep 12 14:41
oiaohmSo price was inversed.Sep 12 14:41
oiaohmLess renters higher price.Sep 12 14:41
oiaohmMore renters lower.Sep 12 14:41
DaemonFCit amazes me that this 4 gigs of RAM and 1.86 Ghz Core 2 Duo are still overkill for LinuxSep 12 14:43
DaemonFCthat alone should tell you why hardware makers hate itSep 12 14:43
DaemonFCseems to me I'm still doing the same stuff with this PC I was doing 10 years ago, it's just that this system is several hundred times fasterSep 12 14:45
DaemonFC:DSep 12 14:45
oiaohmThis machine is 7Sep 12 14:46
oiaohmharddrives and ram has been replaced.Sep 12 14:46
oiaohmNext lot of ram death most likely mean new machine.Sep 12 14:47
DaemonFCoiaohm: I dunno if I trust KDE's system monitorSep 12 14:47
oiaohmThere is no system monitor for Linux that is a 100 percent.Sep 12 14:48
oiaohmBut kde is fairly close + or - about 4 percent.Sep 12 14:49
oiaohmTo allow for not tracked kernel stuff.Sep 12 14:49
oiaohmNormally +Sep 12 14:49
oiaohmKDE 4.x also off loads quite a lot to GPU and kde system monitor don't track that either.Sep 12 14:50
DaemonFChttp://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9276/snapshot1k.pngSep 12 14:51
DaemonFChow is Opera using 432 megs?Sep 12 14:51
oiaohmReal interesting question.Sep 12 14:53
DaemonFCthat's just not rightSep 12 14:54
oiaohmthinking KDE system monitor is pulling that information in the same way as top.Sep 12 14:54
DaemonFCit never does this on WindowsSep 12 14:54
oiaohmThat is allocated memory not checked if used.Sep 12 14:54
DaemonFCso it's bullshit?Sep 12 14:54
oiaohmLike if you asked for a 4 gb allocation and never used it.  system monitor would show 4 g to application even that no memory at kernel level is really allocated.Sep 12 14:55
oiaohmNot exactly.Sep 12 14:56
trmancoflashSep 12 14:56
oiaohmWindows measure ments are bullshit.Sep 12 14:56
oiaohmSince blocks of allocations end up not connected to the applciation.Sep 12 14:57
oiaohmEven when used.Sep 12 14:57
oiaohmLinux basically reports everything the application has asked for.Sep 12 14:57
oiaohmEverything it could decide to use at a moments notice.Sep 12 14:57
oiaohmThere will in time come a extra number showing how much of asked for is used.Sep 12 14:58
oiaohmDaemonFC: ever seen close a application under windows using bugger all memory and have like 500 megs turn back up.Sep 12 15:07
oiaohmSee it from time to time on servers.Sep 12 15:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] MicroHoo Search Deal Faces DOJ Scrutiny, CEO Bartz Would Have Let MSFT Buy All Of Yahoo: http://is.gd/3bRh5Sep 12 15:08
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Sep 12 15:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Proprietary browsers built on proprietary browsers: the blind leading the blind?: http://is.gd/3bSKkSep 12 15:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] What Microsoft Doesn't Get - And What I Hope You Do: http://is.gd/3bSTKSep 12 15:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Do thes Linux “CAD” applications stand up to the standards?: http://is.gd/3bTdCSep 12 15:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] If Microsoft really wants to be friends with Linux...: http://is.gd/3bTeOSep 12 15:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Linux Datacenters Virtualize More, See Big TCO Savings: http://is.gd/3bTozSep 12 15:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] FOSS Fans Wary of Microsoft's New CodePlex Foundation: http://is.gd/3bTw6Sep 12 15:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Miguel joins Microsoft board, slams FSF: http://is.gd/3bTFOSep 12 15:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] How PHP became such a huge success: http://is.gd/3bTZzSep 12 15:40
twitter1M$ slips out of another patent judgment http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/09/12/0247236/358-Million-Patent-Judgment-Against-Microsoft-OverturnedSep 12 15:40
DaemonFCtrmanco: I've written an IE-based browser beforeSep 12 15:40
DaemonFCjust for the hell of itSep 12 15:40
DaemonFCit's not hardSep 12 15:40
twitter1->  the appellate court said that they did infringe on Alcatel-Lucent patents, but that those infringements did not warrant $358 million in damages.  The case needs to be retriedSep 12 15:40
trmancoyou can use visual studioSep 12 15:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Ubuntu Tweak 0.4.9 released: Manage your sources more easily!: http://is.gd/3bU5TSep 12 15:41
*twitter1 ignores DaemonFC troll againSep 12 15:41
DaemonFCtrmanco: that BT/Yahoo thingamawhazzit was probably done up in about an hour with VB .NETSep 12 15:41
DaemonFCback and forward button, address bar, plenty of whore bars, and takes you to their page full of even more advertisementsSep 12 15:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] LOOOL -> http://is.gd/3bUezSep 12 15:42
trmancoyesSep 12 15:42
trmancoI would say in a day or soSep 12 15:42
trmancocan you compile the whole thing in an hour? :-PSep 12 15:42
DaemonFCtrmanco: It's not hard to write an ad blocker for a browser that loads the Trident COM objectSep 12 15:43
DaemonFCwriting an ad blocker for IE itself is another storySep 12 15:43
DaemonFChence the lack of ones which workSep 12 15:43
trmancoI have no ideaSep 12 15:43
DaemonFCabout the only way to block ads in IE before it loads them is to set up some kind of local filtering proxySep 12 15:44
DaemonFCthat creates a load of dead links in your back button which effectively breaks itSep 12 15:44
*twitter1 has quit ("Leaving.")Sep 12 15:45
DaemonFCPrivoxy is pretty stupid about thatSep 12 15:45
DaemonFCBFilter feeds a 1 pixel transparent gif in place of the ad to placate IESep 12 15:46
*lis` has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Sep 12 15:46
DaemonFCit thinks it loaded something, it's happy, the page loads, and it doesn't crap up your back button queueSep 12 15:46
DaemonFCof course this assumes that you even think IE is worth using *with* ad blockingSep 12 15:47
DaemonFClack of a working ad blocking extension makes my IE bitchlist, but the other 90% of the list is still thereSep 12 15:47
schestowitzDaemonFC: your desktop looks like mine (oxygen)Sep 12 15:48
schestowitzAdd some widgetsSep 12 15:48
*DaemonFC generally hates widgetsSep 12 15:48
DaemonFCwait a minute....Sep 12 15:48
DaemonFCdon't Google Gadgets work on KDE?Sep 12 15:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Chrome adds new defence for cross-site scripting attacks: http://is.gd/3bUWJSep 12 15:52
schestowitzhttp://mono-nono.com/2009/09/11/miguel-joins-microsoft-board-slams-fsf/Sep 12 15:57
schestowitz"Sep 12 15:57
schestowitzThe whole “microsoft opening up to open source” things reminds me of this movie:Sep 12 15:57
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3bI71P_8O8Sep 12 15:57
schestowitz “We come in peace”.Sep 12 15:57
schestowitz “Do not run! We are your friends!”Sep 12 15:57
schestowitzYeah… right!Sep 12 15:57
schestowitz"Sep 12 15:57
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.80.228) has joined #boycottnovellSep 12 16:07
_Hicham_Hi schestowitzSep 12 16:08
_Hicham_anyone in here ?Sep 12 16:10
trmancoyeahSep 12 16:13
_Hicham_trmanco : r u from italy ?Sep 12 16:17
trmanconoSep 12 16:17
DaemonFC"I hope that I can last more on this foundation than I lasted at the FSF, where I was removed by RMS after refusing to be an active part of the campaign to rename Linux as GNU/Linux."Sep 12 16:19
DaemonFClmaoSep 12 16:19
DaemonFCI think we should lead a campaign to rename cars with every manufacturer of every last boltSep 12 16:19
schestowitzHi, _Hicham_Sep 12 16:20
DaemonFCit'll be fun to fill out the title on one of those puppies, won't it?Sep 12 16:20
schestowitzHave op, as I'm leaving in a momentSep 12 16:20
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to _Hicham_Sep 12 16:20
_Hicham_hi schestowitzSep 12 16:20
_Hicham_DaemonFC : u r back to ur mental crisis ?Sep 12 16:22
DaemonFCthe problem with saying they deserve half the credit for 10% of the system means that you either have to make up some ten mile long name that you won't finish saying today if someone asks what the operating system you're using isSep 12 16:22
DaemonFCor trivialize everyone that had a hand in itSep 12 16:22
_Hicham_same topicSep 12 16:22
_Hicham_are u a parrot ?Sep 12 16:22
DaemonFCthe GNU/Linux spammers really do need to cool itSep 12 16:22
_Hicham_u r the big spammerSep 12 16:23
trmancowho gives a damn, if it's GNU, Linux or GNU/LinuxSep 12 16:23
DaemonFCI don't just drive a Ford, maybe AC/Delco wants credit because I happen to have one of their batteries in itSep 12 16:23
trmancoas long as the code remains free, I don't give a shitSep 12 16:23
DaemonFCor maybe Prestone should be part of the car's name since I have their coolant in itSep 12 16:24
_Hicham_GnuDaemonFCSep 12 16:24
DaemonFCor perhaps Valvoline too since oil is an essential part of the carSep 12 16:24
_Hicham_that would be coolSep 12 16:24
trmancoI use Linux from time to time, and GNU/Linux tooSep 12 16:24
_Hicham_or GNU/DaemonFCSep 12 16:24
_Hicham_free version of DaemonFCSep 12 16:24
DaemonFCand who could forget those Auto Zone interior light bulbs?Sep 12 16:24
trmancoany linux distro would have to have more than just GNU attached to LinuxSep 12 16:25
trmancoApache/GNU/BSD/LinuxSep 12 16:25
DaemonFCwhich is why you can avoid the controversy and jsut call it LinuxSep 12 16:25
DaemonFCbecause that's the piece that stands outSep 12 16:25
DaemonFCI could be using some GNU software and GNOME on FreeBSDSep 12 16:26
DaemonFCdoes using GNOME make it GNU/FreeBSD?Sep 12 16:26
DaemonFCor does it mean I have GNOME packages on my FreeBSD operating system?Sep 12 16:26
trmanconoSep 12 16:26
trmancoGnome/BSDSep 12 16:26
trmanco:-PSep 12 16:26
DaemonFCif someone asks me "Hey, what do you call this desktop environment?" I would say "GNOME"Sep 12 16:27
DaemonFCit would be silly to call it GNOME/FreeBSD because thar would only account for mybe 15-20% of the systemSep 12 16:27
DaemonFC*thatSep 12 16:27
DaemonFCif someone asks you "What are you eating?" and you reply "pizza" because you didn't want to list all 20 toppings, does that make you an evil bastard who doesn't want to give the olives any credit?Sep 12 16:28
trmancoLOLSep 12 16:29
DaemonFCwas the proper response Olive/Pizza, even though there are 19 other delicious toppings?Sep 12 16:29
schestowitzhttp://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/09/12/review_iphone_app_tomtom/Sep 12 16:30
DaemonFCthe Linux is a kernel is kind of impliedSep 12 16:31
DaemonFCthough I would think that if you're using Debian GNU/kFreeBSD, that the GNU is an important part of the nameSep 12 16:31
DaemonFCbecause otherwise people may think you're using the entire FreeBSD stackSep 12 16:31
DaemonFCLinux hasn't traditionally shipped with any other components besides the GNU libraries, utilities, etc., so there is no need for a distinctionSep 12 16:32
schestowitzBad analogySep 12 16:33
DaemonFCit's kind of like stating the obviousSep 12 16:33
schestowitzPizza is not "Linux"Sep 12 16:33
schestowitzLinux is the oliveSep 12 16:33
schestowitzPizza is the free desktopSep 12 16:33
trmancohttp://guerrillatech.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/ch-ch-ch-changes-and-kde-4-3/Sep 12 16:33
DaemonFCyou refer to "Elvis" the musician and people know you're likely talking about Elvis PresleySep 12 16:33
trmancobut we don't call it Pizza/OliveSep 12 16:34
DaemonFCif you meant some obscure musician ALSO with the first name Elvis, you may elaborateSep 12 16:34
schestowitzIt's like saying I war "cod" cause the pizza it's own is two vowels longSep 12 16:34
schestowitzLinux uses the gnu compilerSep 12 16:34
schestowitzSo at hardware level there is gnu alsoSep 12 16:34
DaemonFCGNU/Linux defies proper naming conventionSep 12 16:34
DaemonFCthat's my take on it anywaySep 12 16:34
schestowitzEven gnu grubSep 12 16:34
trmancoLinux is fine in my landSep 12 16:35
DaemonFCschestowitz: It doesn't need GRUBSep 12 16:35
Aondo"this game works with pc and mac" great then it works with GNU/Linux too,... right? i have a PC! :DSep 12 16:35
DaemonFCit can boot with LILOSep 12 16:35
schestowitz"http://guerrillatech.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/ch-ch-ch-changes-and-kde-4-3/"Sep 12 16:35
DaemonFCactually, if we're talking pre-GRUB2, I much prefer LILOSep 12 16:35
DaemonFCbecause the original GRUB is an unrelenting messSep 12 16:36
schestowitz"But what I want to talk about is KDE 4.3! Holy shit it’s so full of awesome!"Sep 12 16:36
schestowitzCool. Others love it too.Sep 12 16:36
DaemonFCGRUB2 doesn't have to be patched to death to understand modern file systems and LVMSep 12 16:36
DaemonFCthat's a good startSep 12 16:36
schestowitzWindows is called after the gui (windows)Sep 12 16:36
schestowitzIt's like calling gnu/linux "kde"Sep 12 16:37
_Hicham_GRUB2 does support every filesystemSep 12 16:37
_Hicham_probably ur talking about grub legacySep 12 16:37
DaemonFCschestowitz: You could call it Windows/NTOSKRNL.EXESep 12 16:37
_Hicham_go see where u read that DaemonBoySep 12 16:37
trmancoLOLSep 12 16:37
schestowitzit's nice to think of all the teams and foundations that make our desktopSep 12 16:37
DaemonFCjust in case anyone wouldn't understand what Windows wasSep 12 16:37
DaemonFCor you didn't want the NT OS Kernel to be overlookedSep 12 16:37
DaemonFC:)Sep 12 16:37
DaemonFCbut then you have to elaborate further for when it runs on multicore/multiprocessor systemsSep 12 16:38
DaemonFCit becomes Windows/NTKRNLMP.EXESep 12 16:38
DaemonFCB-)Sep 12 16:38
DaemonFClike anyone caresSep 12 16:38
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/12/linux_zombies_push_malware/Sep 12 16:40
_Hicham_great, now we are having linux zombiesSep 12 16:40
DaemonFCsince a Linux system is jsut a pile of parts someone glued together, and in some cases inhaled too many fumes halfway through and decided to install GNOME, I think it's very important to talk about what projet you mean in particularSep 12 16:40
_Hicham_but they didn't mention which type of linux is thisSep 12 16:41
_Hicham_maybe SUSE with Mono in it ?Sep 12 16:41
DaemonFC_Hicham_: OpenSuse of course, and the worms are in dlls and exesSep 12 16:41
DaemonFCjust like all the other softwareSep 12 16:41
DaemonFCB-)Sep 12 16:41
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/11/albert_gonzalez_enters_plea/Sep 12 16:42
DaemonFCfor some reason, Ktorrent isn't working at allSep 12 16:46
schestowitzcheck the ispSep 12 16:47
schestowitzShare ISOsSep 12 16:47
DaemonFCwell, there it goes, kind ofSep 12 16:47
DaemonFChmmmSep 12 16:47
schestowitzComkkkast is throttling torrentSep 12 16:47
DaemonFCschestowitz: They can't do that anymore apparentlySep 12 16:48
DaemonFCbut really, who knows?Sep 12 16:48
schestowitzDaemonFC: I think they can and soSep 12 16:48
schestowitzOther ISPs tooSep 12 16:48
schestowitzI read about it recentluySep 12 16:48
schestowitzAnd the FCC is overwhelmed by bullies (lobbyists)Sep 12 16:48
schestowitzDaemonFC: download Switerland from the EFFSep 12 16:49
schestowitzTest the connection with itSep 12 16:49
schestowitzhttp://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/09/eighth_annivers.htmlSep 12 16:49
MinceR172616 < DaemonFC> the GNU/Linux spammers really do need to cool itSep 12 16:49
schestowitzThe US probably just increases the panicSep 12 16:49
MinceRhave fun with Android, then :>Sep 12 16:49
schestowitzThus giving the conpirators what they wantSep 12 16:50
DaemonFCno thank youSep 12 16:50
schestowitzAnd then uses the panic to futher decrease security by encouraging more JihadistsSep 12 16:50
DaemonFCschestowitz: What's that?Sep 12 16:50
MinceRsee, that's the difference between plain Linux and GNU/Linux :>Sep 12 16:50
DaemonFCMinceR: NoSep 12 16:50
DaemonFCthere's infinite ways of doing the wrong thingSep 12 16:50
DaemonFCGoogle picked one of themSep 12 16:51
MinceRsureSep 12 16:51
schestowitzAdroid=just another hypephone, but with tivoised Linux under the hoodSep 12 16:51
schestowitzI.e. sr*pSep 12 16:51
MinceRbut there's an important practical difference here, imoSep 12 16:51
schestowitzYesSep 12 16:51
schestowitzThere's also their development of LinuxSep 12 16:51
DaemonFCMinceR: Linspire was "GNU/Linux" as much as any of themSep 12 16:51
MinceRone could say that X is an important component too, but its presence often depends on the user's choiceSep 12 16:51
schestowitzAndroid does at the end give some back to the communitySep 12 16:51
schestowitzI'd better get goingSep 12 16:52
MinceRand Linspire did most of the things a GNU/Linux distro could, didn't it?Sep 12 16:52
MinceRit was evil, but it was what it wasSep 12 16:52
DaemonFCMinceR: Linspire flopped because they charged moneySep 12 16:52
schestowitz_Hicham_: take care of the rooster (Ryan)Sep 12 16:52
DaemonFCnot because they were evilSep 12 16:52
MinceRothers charged money too... and they surviveSep 12 16:52
DaemonFCMandriva is borderlineSep 12 16:52
DaemonFCUbuntu is a loss leaderSep 12 16:52
DaemonFCDebian only has to keep the lights on through donationsSep 12 16:53
DaemonFCand Fedora is Red Hat's playgroundSep 12 16:53
DaemonFCthe rest are usually pet projects or government projectsSep 12 16:53
*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Sep 12 16:53
DaemonFCand Microsoft is propping up Novell SuseSep 12 16:53
DaemonFCand XandrosSep 12 16:53
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to EruaranSep 12 16:54
DaemonFCLinux can either get you a fortune or get you brokeSep 12 16:54
DaemonFCdepends on if you go after the customers that have money and will pay it (Red Hat) or not (Linspire)Sep 12 16:54
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zlgred hat does not sell software, they VAR, they just happen to do with with Open Source software.Sep 12 16:56
DaemonFCthe hobbies, projects, and government-backed distros are probably the safest place to beSep 12 16:56
DaemonFCzlg: Yes, support and value added servicesSep 12 16:56
DaemonFCthey thrive even though clones are freely available and circulatedSep 12 16:57
DaemonFCthat should tell you their clienteleSep 12 16:57
MinceRthere are other business models tooSep 12 16:57
MinceRfor example selling your own computers with linux :)Sep 12 16:57
zlgagain, your selling computers not software.Sep 12 16:57
DaemonFCI think Ubuntu will either become profitable or get the axe within 3-5 yearsSep 12 16:58
DaemonFConce Shuttleworth gets tired of funding it, in theory, the $10 million dollars and the foundation kick inSep 12 16:59
DaemonFCthat should keep them going for some time I guessSep 12 16:59
zlgConanical's business model is to sell proprietary software and appsSep 12 16:59
DaemonFCand supportSep 12 16:59
zlgyesSep 12 17:00
DaemonFCthey're trying to be a cheap RHEL and SUSE alternativeSep 12 17:00
DaemonFCtheir support prices are very reasonable compared to RHEL and SuseSep 12 17:00
DaemonFCand I wish them all the luck in the worldSep 12 17:00
DaemonFChopefully they'll nibble at Novell until they can replace themSep 12 17:01
_Hicham_they can't replace NovellSep 12 17:01
DaemonFCI'd much rather see Canonical there than NovellSep 12 17:01
_Hicham_Novell is too bigSep 12 17:01
DaemonFCNovell is a failing companySep 12 17:02
DaemonFCwhen the Microsoft handouts go away, Novell will go bankruptSep 12 17:02
zlgwhy is it too big, im sure the market is large enough for many players.Sep 12 17:03
_Hicham_that is what u saySep 12 17:03
_Hicham_not the truthSep 12 17:03
DaemonFCzlg: Either the market grows or the weak ones die outSep 12 17:03
_Hicham_they have their financial counselorsSep 12 17:03
DaemonFCUbuntu has a much better system than that clusterfuck, OpenSuseSep 12 17:03
zlgboth the market growns AND the weaker one go broke.Sep 12 17:04
zlgprobably growns and grows :)Sep 12 17:05
_Hicham_GNU/DeamonFC is the futureSep 12 17:05
_Hicham_the strongest company that will ever exist on earthSep 12 17:06
_Hicham_rent a linuxSep 12 17:06
zlggot to put a "nux" after itSep 12 17:06
_Hicham_$1/daySep 12 17:06
zlgGNU/DeamonFCnuxSep 12 17:06
_Hicham_Rent a Linux Inc. by GNU/DaemonFCSep 12 17:06
zlgI think RH and IBm have fairly good FOSS models, they dont sell computers, or software they sell solutions and servicesSep 12 17:10
zlgIt's hard to develop a viable busines model when your crown jewles are available to everyone,Sep 12 17:11
zlgHow would coke be if everyone could make it at home.Sep 12 17:11
zlgthe drink not drugSep 12 17:11
trmancoDaemonFC: it's working hereSep 12 17:22
_Hicham_what is working there trmanco ?Sep 12 17:22
trmancoKtorrentSep 12 17:22
_Hicham_maybe he is using moontorrent nowSep 12 17:23
trmancololSep 12 17:23
trmancoon kde?Sep 12 17:23
trmanco:-pSep 12 17:24
_Hicham_there are bindings for KDE and qtSep 12 17:24
_Hicham_kde-sharp and qt-sharpSep 12 17:24
DaemonFCMonsoon?Sep 12 17:28
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sebsebsebschestowitz: hiSep 12 17:29
_Hicham_wb sebsebsebSep 12 17:30
sebsebseb_Hicham_: thanks I guessSep 12 17:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Jordan drunk-texts her old shag http://notnews.today.com/?p=641Sep 12 17:38
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - FootieFox – A Must Have Firefox Addon For Football Fans http://tinyurl.com/ow4qejSep 12 18:37
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_Hicham_DaemonFC the trollSep 12 18:38
_Hicham_still talking about GNU ?Sep 12 18:38
_Hicham_DaemonFC is planning to release his first Linux distro : TroLLinuxSep 12 18:39
_Hicham_which is the fruit on many years of trolling in public channelSep 12 18:39
_Hicham_as such, this distro will satisfy all the trollsSep 12 18:40
_Hicham_and as a consequence, trolling activity will cease to existSep 12 18:40
MinceRsounds good to meSep 12 18:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Microsoft: Windows 7 upgrade can take nearly a day: http://is.gd/3c7w6 || Ooooh boy...Sep 12 19:06
_Hicham_MinceR is upgrading to latest OSXSep 12 19:07
trmancohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYY9BwlDK6USep 12 19:07
MinceR_Hicham_: will you, too stop trolling when TroLLinux comes out?Sep 12 19:09
_Hicham_MinceR: remember well that u are the trollSep 12 19:10
_Hicham_u keep trolling in hereSep 12 19:10
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_Hicham_wb jonoSep 12 19:10
_Hicham_MinceR the trollSep 12 19:10
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MinceR_Hicham_: could you at least stop highlighting me while you keep trolling?Sep 12 19:12
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_Hicham_noSep 12 19:13
schestowitzMeh.Sep 12 19:14
_Hicham_senior schestowitzSep 12 19:16
_Hicham_what do u think of the linux zombies article ?Sep 12 19:16
*DaemonFC builds Troll Linux with TrollTech toolkitsSep 12 19:17
MinceRtoo bad TrollTech is gone :>Sep 12 19:17
ThistleWebto be fair, if you want a troll linux, make sure you go with one made by trolling expertsSep 12 19:17
_Hicham_MinceR : how comes u regret TrollTech?Sep 12 19:18
schestowitz_Hicham_: wonder what part of the stack is to blameSep 12 19:18
schestowitzCould be PHP with uploadersSep 12 19:18
MinceR_Hicham_: it was a good name :)Sep 12 19:18
MinceRother than that, i don't know what will come of it... so far things have been goodSep 12 19:19
_Hicham_schestowitz : I am wondering if the attack wasn't from the insideSep 12 19:19
_Hicham_MinceR : did u like their license also ?Sep 12 19:19
MinceRi like the switch to LGPLSep 12 19:19
_Hicham_the switch have been made after nokia acquired it, right ?Sep 12 19:20
ThistleWebthe dual licence, free for free software use, or paid for closed use is coolSep 12 19:20
schestowitzThey share the revenueSep 12 19:20
schestowitzFair enoughSep 12 19:20
_Hicham_I want to use open source software in my closed source onesSep 12 19:20
MinceRit didSep 12 19:20
schestowitzAnd the code is still out thereSep 12 19:20
_Hicham_as MinceR doesSep 12 19:20
MinceRi don't... yetSep 12 19:21
MinceRbut i think it's an advantage for Qt to let non-GPL software to use it like GTK+Sep 12 19:21
DaemonFCOpera uses QT under the QPLSep 12 19:22
_Hicham_that is why GTK+ was picked by GNU project at the timeSep 12 19:22
schestowitzhttp://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/09/microsofts-linux-best-buy-is-g.htmlSep 12 19:22
_Hicham_DaemonFC likes closed source programsSep 12 19:23
_Hicham_buy OpenBallnuxSep 12 19:23
_Hicham_the best OS in the worldSep 12 19:23
_Hicham_MinceR : for how much time have u been trolling ?Sep 12 19:25
MinceR0 secondsSep 12 19:26
MinceR+/- 0%Sep 12 19:26
schestowitzBob plays smart... http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/?p=4227Sep 12 19:27
trmancogeeeSep 12 19:28
trmancowhat is this non sense?Sep 12 19:28
trmancois kde develop any good for php?Sep 12 19:30
trmancokdevelop*Sep 12 19:31
trmancothe stable versionSep 12 19:31
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MinceRfinallySep 12 19:31
DaemonFChmmmSep 12 19:31
DaemonFCthis facebook widget is niceSep 12 19:31
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Omar87Hey there, folks.Sep 12 19:37
MinceRhaySep 12 19:38
schestowitzHi, Omar87. wbSep 12 19:41
amarsh04Schestowitz, did you see this: Why Microsoft is Australia's default buy http://www.itwire.com/content/view/27536/1090/Sep 12 19:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] So much for there being "no backlog" as they'd have us believe. If there was no backlog, they were vastly overstaffed for the demand. ht ...Sep 12 19:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Mail backlog sorted in the street - The link didn't go through. http://tinyurl.com/kn28p9Sep 12 19:46
schestowitzhttp://arstechnica.com/media/news/2009/09/did-the-family-guy-cause-a-jump-in-fcc-indecency-complaints.arsSep 12 19:46
schestowitzamarsh04: yes, I wrote about itSep 12 19:47
schestowitzamarsh04: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/09/11/microsoft-open-government/Sep 12 19:47
amarsh04ok, that's good... my ADSL drop-outs and long work week meant that I hadn't kept up on your postingsSep 12 19:47
amarsh04thanks for the linkSep 12 19:48
schestowitzamarsh04: I thought about making audio from the daily links.Sep 12 19:48
schestowitzBut I suck at recording.Sep 12 19:48
schestowitzDisney Sued For Selling The Pixar Lamp... And The Lawsuit Makes Sense < http://arstechnica.com/media/news/2009/09/did-the-family-guy-cause-a-jump-in-fcc-indecency-complaints.ars >Sep 12 19:49
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zlghttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/27649/53/   anogther Aussie business going to MS (or staying with them at least).Sep 12 19:53
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schestowitzAustralia is captiveSep 12 19:55
schestowitzChange will not come from thereSep 12 19:55
schestowitzIt's already coming from non-ENglish-speaking nationsSep 12 19:55
*schestowitz found http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USZzH1L6nKUSep 12 19:55
zlgYour right roy, you cannot do the Australian Govenrment Small business course unless you have excell, it's a shame as AU turn out some great FOSS coders.Sep 12 19:58
Diablo-D3zlg: well, thats the fault of australiansSep 12 19:59
Diablo-D3if they refuse to sue, then let them suffer'Sep 12 19:59
Diablo-D3you cant help someone who wont help themselvesSep 12 19:59
zlgSue for what is the problem, AU are not big on litigation at the best of times.Sep 12 20:00
Diablo-D3theres something to sue them forSep 12 20:00
Diablo-D3even if it forced .au to hand out free copies of excel, it'd be an improvementSep 12 20:01
Diablo-D3anything that effects microsoft's bottom line is goodSep 12 20:01
Diablo-D3zlg: though the big problem isSep 12 20:01
Diablo-D3why doesnt OOo work here?Sep 12 20:02
zlgYes, I guess you could try to sue the government but probably would not fly here, and your right I dont remember them providing the software.Sep 12 20:02
zlgtheir business plan was a highly embedded XLS file filled with VBA so I dont know.Sep 12 20:02
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Diablo-D3hehSep 12 20:03
wallclimberJust a small comment on one of the latest BN Novell articles. The first paragraph ends with this: "...so this post might be worth skipping." and I think that's unnecessary.  You should never, ever tell your readers to skip reading.Sep 12 20:03
wallclimberIf even the writer says it's worth skipping, then the reader may conclude that it wasn't worth writing either.Sep 12 20:03
Diablo-D3zlg: thats super gay... its an abuse of excel to begin withSep 12 20:03
wallclimberIf something's important enough to be written about, then it's important enough to be read...Sep 12 20:04
Diablo-D3you have to be a moron to think complex excel documents is worth doingSep 12 20:04
Diablo-D3wallclimber: hardlySep 12 20:04
wallclimberhardly?Sep 12 20:04
schestowitzwallclimber: good point.Sep 12 20:04
zlgYes, and it's a HUGE program, it gives grants and pays you a wage for a period to get going so alot or more small businesses start that way.Sep 12 20:04
amarsh04what I don't like is the "exclusively microsoft" line... if schools and universities in .au all included OOo/Abiword/Audacity/Firefox on standard desktop images then there would at least be the acceptance of those who do their work on non-microsoft operating systemsSep 12 20:04
Diablo-D3wallclimber: its worth writing for one person, its not worth reading for the restSep 12 20:04
schestowitzMy worry is that uninteresting things will be read and then be generalised for the restSep 12 20:04
Diablo-D3wallclimber: lets face it, most of the internet is myspace or livejournal scribblings.Sep 12 20:05
ThistleWebgood point wallclimber some writers inadvertently project onto readers from time to timeSep 12 20:05
Diablo-D3most writing is just ego stroking.Sep 12 20:05
schestowitzwallclimber: thanks for the adviceSep 12 20:05
wallclimberWell, if when I had an art show, I met people at the door and said, thanks for coming, but you wouldn't miss much if you skip it and go somewhere else...Sep 12 20:05
schestowitzSome of those posts I do to help myself though... keep track of NovellSep 12 20:05
Diablo-D3zlg: well, if money is actually involved, someones should sue microsoft.au and gov.au for .... somethingSep 12 20:06
schestowitzOnly those who are curious might wanna read itSep 12 20:06
Diablo-D3zlg: even making a shitload of noise over this is an improvementSep 12 20:06
schestowitzLikewise for SCO in GroklawSep 12 20:06
schestowitzI'm not getting to much into SCO PDFs and stuffSep 12 20:06
MinceRexcel fails at math anyway. use gnumeric.Sep 12 20:06
wallclimberI'd be wrong to do that...they should be able to choose for themselvesSep 12 20:06
MinceRholy major lag, batman!Sep 12 20:06
MinceRi got the last 18 lines in 1 secondSep 12 20:06
Diablo-D3when your choice is obviously retarded, you shouldnt be able to chooseSep 12 20:06
schestowitzwallclimber: it's different from visitingSep 12 20:06
schestowitzI'm not denying or driving awaySep 12 20:07
Diablo-D3this is why we have standards: so all your choices have to be acceptable.Sep 12 20:07
schestowitzI'm trying to adviceSep 12 20:07
zlgyour right there was no good reason for it to be that complicated, and it was data you should know how to minipulate yourself anyway,Sep 12 20:07
Diablo-D3zlg: I mean, I'd understand if they had a basic computing class under this courseSep 12 20:07
Diablo-D3since .au isnt exactly well educated, small business owners really need to learn how to use computersSep 12 20:08
wallclimberWell, i just know it's not good to greet people at the door with a negative comment about your own work...not intending to critisize, just offering an opinion...Sep 12 20:08
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zlgYes, ofcourse DiableSep 12 20:08
Diablo-D3but I don't like the .au government pushing microsoft productsSep 12 20:08
Diablo-D3especially _when they dont work_Sep 12 20:08
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Diablo-D3and doubly especially when they wont pay for themSep 12 20:09
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MinceRnot paying is not a problem, pushing and using is.Sep 12 20:09
Diablo-D3MinceR: they cant push ms officeSep 12 20:09
Diablo-D3you know whySep 12 20:09
Diablo-D3people get it for free in Diablo's Magical Perfect WorldSep 12 20:09
Diablo-D3and then microsoft charges for upgradesSep 12 20:09
Diablo-D3they alllll run to OOo.Sep 12 20:10
MinceRin Mincer's Magical Perfect World, people don't get m$ officeSep 12 20:10
Diablo-D3well, I think ms office should existSep 12 20:10
MinceRoffice suite devels get it, in source code form.Sep 12 20:10
Diablo-D3you know why?Sep 12 20:10
Diablo-D3there is no light without darkness.Sep 12 20:10
MinceRto torture m$ managers before execution?Sep 12 20:11
Diablo-D3not that OOo is much of a lightSep 12 20:11
schestowitzwallclimber: I have a questionSep 12 20:11
Diablo-D3but you get the pointSep 12 20:11
MinceRit isn'tSep 12 20:11
schestowitzAs a reader, have a look at that postSep 12 20:11
MinceRbut at least it isn't m$ officSep 12 20:11
MinceReSep 12 20:11
schestowitzSee if you find it worth readinfSep 12 20:11
Diablo-D3http://www.projectwonderful.com/advertisehere.php?id=38219&type=3Sep 12 20:11
Diablo-D3I have a problem with this adSep 12 20:11
Diablo-D3"meet beautiful women"Sep 12 20:12
Diablo-D3so why didnt they show one?Sep 12 20:12
schestowitzIt's too hard for me as a person who saw these things too much and proofread to see if those 3 posts about neutral Novell stuff is interesting to audience, like yourselfSep 12 20:12
zlgI read it ealier and i found it interesting enoughSep 12 20:17
wallclimberWell, i think the difference here is that you are looking at it with regular readers in mind.  because i send links to BN out to people who are new to the whole Novell/Microsoft/Linux thing, it seemed unfortunate that you'd tell readers that something was skippable.  Maybe saying that those who are already familiar with the Novell story might want to skip, but encourage new ones to read more...Sep 12 20:17
schestowitzThanks.Sep 12 20:17
schestowitzBe brutally honest anywaySep 12 20:17
wallclimberI dunno, it just bothered me for some reason... :)Sep 12 20:17
MinceRcould have been beautiful before the warp toolSep 12 20:17
schestowitzwallclimber: I was trying to do the oppositeSep 12 20:18
zlgI would just proitrise the big news first and "filler" underneathSep 12 20:18
wallclimberI found it interesting too...didn't skip it :)Sep 12 20:18
schestowitzAs in be humble if the content is banal to most people. It's Novell's proprietary sideSep 12 20:18
schestowitzzlg: in the front page it's already abbreviatedSep 12 20:18
schestowitzSo as to occupy less space and expand on demandSep 12 20:18
zlgcoolSep 12 20:19
wallclimberBeing humble doesn't mean belittling your work (I know that wasn't at all what you intended, but...)Sep 12 20:19
zlgits more letting the facts speak for themselves, much further comment is not as necessary.Sep 12 20:20
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wallclimberzlg, that 's it, exactlySep 12 20:20
wallclimberthough it's also good to have some commentary to help people understand where the information fits in the overall pictureSep 12 20:21
wallclimberto me, that's what sites like Groklaw and BN are best used for: putting the pieces togetherSep 12 20:22
wallclimbergaining a better overall picture of important (and yes, sometimes boring) technology issuesSep 12 20:23
zlgyes, I was thinking the same, that is what reporting is all about, that has to be explainedSep 12 20:24
wallclimberI think BN has improved tremendously since its early days, and it's a great resourceSep 12 20:24
wallclimberfor learningSep 12 20:25
wallclimberit's also, quite obviously, doing a lot of goodSep 12 20:26
wallclimber- I feel like I've interrupted the flow of conversation.  Didn't mean to do that.Sep 12 20:30
zlgIm sure you didn't and yes, it has dome some good,Sep 12 20:33
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schestowitzwallclimber: no, no interruptionSep 12 20:35
Omar87Can somebody help me decide exactly which Slackware image I should download?Sep 12 20:35
schestowitzI was on the phoneSep 12 20:35
schestowitzOmar87: which one/s do you have? Not just 32/64?Sep 12 20:35
schestowitzOmar87: in SLackware you'd need to startx manually. Is it for a server you want it for? Slackware and Gentoo are said to be for ricersSep 12 20:36
DaemonFChaven't used Slackware in a long timeSep 12 20:36
schestowitzMany haven'tSep 12 20:37
schestowitzIt's a grandpaSep 12 20:37
DaemonFClike, I had it on my 486Sep 12 20:37
schestowitz[of Linux]Sep 12 20:37
DaemonFC:)Sep 12 20:37
schestowitz  Slackware 11: Grandfather Distribution Showing Its Age < http://www.osnews.com/story/16319/Slackware_11_Grandfather_Distribution_Showing_Its_Age >Sep 12 20:37
Omar87schestowitz: No, actually I want to use it on my laptop.Sep 12 20:38
DaemonFCKubuntu 9.10 is turning out surprisingly goodSep 12 20:39
DaemonFCI thought for sure that KDE 4 would never get cleaned upSep 12 20:39
schestowitzkde 4 that isSep 12 20:40
schestowitzI saw it in 4.1, it was clean but lacking some of the features I might wantSep 12 20:40
Omar87DaemonFC: Cleaned up?Sep 12 20:40
schestowitzStable, self-contained, polishedSep 12 20:40
schestowitzNothing fails in it now. Everything from sound to integration and stability is mintSep 12 20:41
schestowitzAnd it's an 'alpha' they tell usSep 12 20:41
DaemonFCKDE 4 was a disaster areaSep 12 20:41
schestowitzWhat a waste: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/new-book-pentaho-solutions-available-from-john-wiley-amp-sons,954949.shtmlSep 12 20:41
schestowitzkde4, DaemonFCSep 12 20:42
DaemonFC~80,000 patches later, it worksSep 12 20:42
schestowitzIt's one of a familySep 12 20:42
schestowitzProgressiveSep 12 20:42
schestowitzDaemonFC: how are your firefox UI fonts?Sep 12 20:42
schestowitzMine are larger than I wish for them to beSep 12 20:42
schestowitzIt used to be adjustable in ancient firefoxSep 12 20:43
DaemonFCschestowitz: Did you use the installer provided?Sep 12 20:43
schestowitzYesSep 12 20:43
schestowitzSynapticSep 12 20:43
DaemonFCfonts are fine, but mouse positioning in Flash video players are whackedSep 12 20:43
DaemonFC*shrug*Sep 12 20:43
*schestowitz installs StellariumSep 12 20:44
schestowitzMinceR: http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/hungary-says-yes-to-open-source---but-keeps-the-lion-s-share-for-microsoft-1811Sep 12 20:45
MinceRthat's the way things go in absurdistanSep 12 20:48
schestowitzOK, doneSep 12 20:49
schestowitzNow I'm bored with StellariumSep 12 20:49
schestowitzI wish there was zoomingSep 12 20:50
wallclimberStellarium is a LOT more fun when you have little kids to show it toSep 12 20:56
wallclimberif you have nieces and nephews over to visit, or neighbor kids, you'll see...they love itSep 12 20:57
schestowitzI found focusSep 12 21:02
schestowitzIt's the mouse scrollerSep 12 21:02
schestowitzI traces Mars for a bit. it's fun. I could also change scenary, I just couldn't find the right menusSep 12 21:02
schestowitz*scenerySep 12 21:02
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schestowitzwallclimber: yeah, I knowSep 12 21:02
schestowitzI heard a while ago I might become an uncle next year :-pSep 12 21:03
wallclimberyou'll make a great uncle!Sep 12 21:05
schestowitzwallclimber: there are better things to show kids: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsgKp_Vf6wISep 12 21:05
schestowitzWith the Internet and all, lots of great stuff is at our fingertipsSep 12 21:05
ThistleWebunless the niece or nephew decides to use windows ;)Sep 12 21:05
amarsh04I preferred kstars to stellariumSep 12 21:05
schestowitzFor the past 1.2 weeks I've watched all 12 parts of Cosmos (full thing, not just cips)Sep 12 21:06
schestowitz*slipsSep 12 21:06
schestowitz*clipsSep 12 21:06
schestowitzThistleWeb: stellarium is x-platformSep 12 21:06
wallclimberRoy will disown them if they use windows...lolSep 12 21:06
schestowitzamarsh04: yes, kstar was the first one I used...... back in SuSE 8.1Sep 12 21:06
schestowitzwallclimber: some cracker will OWN them if they use WIndowsSep 12 21:07
wallclimberthe best thing about little kids is that EVERYTHING is new to them, it's like seeing the world through brand new eyes when you teach kidsSep 12 21:07
wallclimberabout the worldSep 12 21:07
Diablo-D3http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/3aWZTlXXEK0/358-Million-Patent-Judgment-Against-Microsoft-OverturnedSep 12 21:07
Diablo-D3fffffffffffffffffffffSep 12 21:07
ThistleWebdunno about disowning, but they may learn to dread a visit to uncle Roy where they face a torrent of talk about why windows is badSep 12 21:07
schestowitzwallclimber: it's a pro and conSep 12 21:07
schestowitzDanger and opportunitySep 12 21:07
schestowitzCase of point: Hitler YouthSep 12 21:08
schestowitzThistleWeb: I don't talk about this to peopleSep 12 21:08
ThistleWebso what are we? digital plums?Sep 12 21:08
ThistleWeblolSep 12 21:08
wallclimberwell, hitler youth is a bit of an extreme...i'm talking about teaching them a love of learningSep 12 21:08
schestowitzIt's no use when you can't provide hyperlinks and at best you can describe something like KDE using words and make very vague guidance/advice on how to install rather than actually do it /for/ themSep 12 21:09
schestowitzwallclimber: learning what?Sep 12 21:09
schestowitzSome kids are taught to recite verses and stuff... maybe not kids, but adolescents and matured kidsSep 12 21:10
ThistleWebkeeping their view of the world child-like while they grow is a valuable thing if you can, it keeps them open minded about the world when they encounter new stuff and are more able to process it properlySep 12 21:10
schestowitzPart of the brain and evolution made kids follow parentsSep 12 21:10
wallclimberhmmm, i think we're talking about different things...Sep 12 21:10
schestowitzThey don't get second chances when stepping next to a cliffSep 12 21:10
schestowitzSo they have blind trust in the parents (or trusted adult in their vicinity)Sep 12 21:10
schestowitzOther mammalian creatures like whales are the sameSep 12 21:11
schestowitzSo many parents project themselves onto offsprings. It's both good and bad.Sep 12 21:11
ThistleWeboften adults lose the ability to really see the world around them because they have seen much of it and take it for granted, rather than being able to see it for the first time, even if they see it every daySep 12 21:11
schestowitzANd they discourage questions tooSep 12 21:11
schestowitzLike, "why id the sky blue?"Sep 12 21:12
schestowitzSOme kids are more inquisitiveSep 12 21:12
schestowitzAnd most parent lack the desire to provide real answersSep 12 21:12
wallclimberwhen you find yourself in the presence of that new nephew, you won't be explaining complex things, but you'll be fascinated by how amazed children are at small things.  Just teaching a child to tie their shoes (I know, I know, everything's velcro these days, but still) is a great experienceSep 12 21:12
schestowitzI say /most/Sep 12 21:12
schestowitzMy parents said I asked questions they could not answer when I was very littleSep 12 21:12
schestowitzNot that I remember itSep 12 21:12
ThistleWebmany parents these days have a very full entertainment schedule, from tv to video gamesSep 12 21:13
schestowitzwallclimber: Naa.. I keep my showlaces tied and slip the feet in. It's faster this waySep 12 21:13
schestowitz*ShoelacesSep 12 21:13
wallclimberThat's what i meant about teaching children to learn.  a parent will never be able to answer every question, but they can teach kids how to look for answersSep 12 21:13
ThistleWebit's easier to just let the kids run wild until they interrupt your movie, where you have to deal with themSep 12 21:13
schestowitzMany kids don't learnSep 12 21:14
schestowitzThey are left to watch TVSep 12 21:14
schestowitzI.e. commerceSep 12 21:14
schestowitzAnd this thing called "education"Sep 12 21:14
schestowitzWhere the agenda is built by Sony, Warner, etc.Sep 12 21:14
schestowitzI saw this 2 hours ago:Sep 12 21:14
schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20090911/0136516161.shtmlSep 12 21:14
ThistleWebschestowitz: isn't that supposed to be "education, education, education"?Sep 12 21:14
schestowitz"A Look At The RIAA's Copyright Propaganda For Schools"Sep 12 21:14
amarsh04Jtrack 3d is a good online java program at nasaSep 12 21:14
schestowitzMicrosoft does the same thing and brags about itSep 12 21:14
schestowitzTHey do copyright brainwash, not just Office/WIndowsm indocrination for toddlersSep 12 21:15
wallclimberThistleWeb, you made me laugh out loud (louder than just an lol would indicate), unruly kids are great fun.  Especially when you know they'll be going home to their parents soonSep 12 21:15
schestowitzThey should be outsted from the education systemSep 12 21:15
ThistleWebheheheSep 12 21:15
ThistleWebI sometimes wonder why machine gun nests are banned to keep the kids in line on the streetsSep 12 21:16
amarsh04I must remind some of the local kindergarten / primary school staff that tuxpaint includes images of local birds in its clip art gallerySep 12 21:16
wallclimberi remember one year when some dumbass schoolboard person decided they wanted some books removed from school libraries (Tom Sawyer was one of them).  I took my son to the local book store, and we went through the entire list and I bought him every book on it.Sep 12 21:17
wallclimberHe still remembers that.Sep 12 21:17
ThistleWebthough an arms race would no doubt ensue, with the kids new toys being "my first hand grenade"Sep 12 21:17
wallclimberThistleWeb, for my own kids and grandkids, I've found the best tools for keeping them quiet and well-mannered are a big roll of duct tape, and a dark closet with a lock on it...Sep 12 21:18
wallclimber(guess i better note here that the above was just a case of grandma being silly...i swear, i've never duct taped anyone in the closet...honest)Sep 12 21:19
trmancohttp://identi.ca/notice/9920440Sep 12 21:20
ThistleWeblolSep 12 21:21
wallclimber:)Sep 12 21:21
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*ThistleWeb listens for muffled bumpsSep 12 21:21
wallclimber(the closet's in the basement)Sep 12 21:21
wallclimberwell insulated...Sep 12 21:21
wallclimberno sound escapesSep 12 21:22
zlgcable ties are prefered over duck tape :)Sep 12 21:22
wallclimberyes, but duct tape makes such a lovely ripping sound when it's removed at the end of the daySep 12 21:22
trmancoExecutable: ktorrent PID: 12825 Signal: 11 (Segmentation fault)Sep 12 21:22
trmancooopsSep 12 21:22
MinceRwhat's the closet for?   http://www.fugly.com/pictures/12926/duct_tape_kid_to_wall.htmlSep 12 21:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Another name change to get used to, laconica is now statusnet http://tinyurl.com/m9qp6jSep 12 21:24
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wallclimber:)  I'm sending that picture to all my kids, they'll love itSep 12 21:24
ThistleWebit's even better when you build the ARGHHH!!! into the ripping off sound, and work that timing into a tuneSep 12 21:25
ThistleWebI used to think it was called duck tape, which made me scratch my head as where ducks came into thingsSep 12 21:25
wallclimberok, people are starting to look at me strangely, i don't usually laugh while working in my office.  They apparently think i'm having a senior momentSep 12 21:26
ThistleWebunless it meant that ducking was a good escape when someone comes running at you with irSep 12 21:26
ThistleWebit*Sep 12 21:26
ThistleWebduck and coverSep 12 21:26
schestowitzMinceR: I think CHild Services would be called inSep 12 21:26
schestowitzBut the baby looks so happy !!Sep 12 21:27
ThistleWebwhich is not to be confused with duck inthe ovenSep 12 21:27
MinceR:)Sep 12 21:27
wallclimberguess it's time to go duck tape the dog to the fence and invite the neighbor's cat overSep 12 21:27
schestowitzwallclimber: the dog has fur/hairSep 12 21:27
schestowitzTHat would hurt laterSep 12 21:27
schestowitzBut you know what they say...Sep 12 21:27
schestowitzThere are x different ways to shave/skin a catSep 12 21:27
schestowitzDUCK tapeSep 12 21:28
schestowitzQuack QuackSep 12 21:28
MinceRnah, don't be so cruel. kill the dog quickly.Sep 12 21:28
ThistleWebunless it was advertised by Donald Duck in a Disney partnership and the name just stuckSep 12 21:28
wallclimberok, i have to say that i have a great dog, and she's very smart and well-mannered.  i'd never be unkind to her.  she's my best friendSep 12 21:29
schestowitzAnother member of Microsoft's board is jumplng shipSep 12 21:30
schestowitzhttp://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/09/microsoft_board_member_cash_leaving_no_word_on_possible_replacement.html?ana=from_rssSep 12 21:30
schestowitzWhy do humans make better firends with their species? It's genetic, isn't it?Sep 12 21:31
schestowitzA person can do better with pets for reciprocitySep 12 21:31
schestowitzMan feeds cow, cow makes milk (And meat *eeek*)(Sep 12 21:31
ThistleWebpets are unconditionalSep 12 21:31
ThistleWebpeople are notSep 12 21:31
schestowitzWell, they have to complySep 12 21:31
schestowitzWe men mastered fiaaaahhh!Sep 12 21:32
schestowitz[and women]Sep 12 21:32
wallclimberwith pets, as with people, you get back what you give...Sep 12 21:32
schestowitzDisambiguation:Sep 12 21:32
ThistleWebahh, the pooper scooper analogySep 12 21:32
MinceRmen mastered women? that's new :>Sep 12 21:32
schestowitzWomen master fire.Sep 12 21:32
schestowitzNot men mastred womenSep 12 21:32
schestowitzALthough it was true in the pastSep 12 21:32
MinceRoh.Sep 12 21:33
ThistleWebcats only let us think we're in charge, they play usSep 12 21:33
MinceRi thought men never really understood women :>Sep 12 21:33
schestowitzThistleWeb: sounds rightSep 12 21:33
schestowitzLook at the OS X OSesSep 12 21:33
schestowitzVery elitistSep 12 21:33
wallclimberlol...this is a good time for me to go do other things...bye for nowSep 12 21:33
*wallclimber has quit ("Ex-Chat")Sep 12 21:33
schestowitzThe leopards and tigers and Snot [sic] leopardsSep 12 21:33
schestowitzWhat will OS 10.7 be called?Sep 12 21:34
MinceRit's a disgrace to cats to call osx thatSep 12 21:34
schestowitz"Kitty"?Sep 12 21:34
schestowitz"Pussy"?Sep 12 21:34
schestowitzAs in Mac OS X codename Puppy [a type of cat]Sep 12 21:34
schestowitzNo wonder OS X hates mice (with 2 buttons)Sep 12 21:35
schestowitzThe Mac cats chew off the limps of miceSep 12 21:35
schestowitz*limbsSep 12 21:38
MinceRlimping comes afterwards, though :>Sep 12 21:38
schestowitzHehe. Lxer called Jono "Jona"Sep 12 21:38
schestowitzLike YonahSep 12 21:39
schestowitzMinceR: yes, transplants do thatSep 12 21:39
ThistleWebleading an arc of former windows users to safety from the flood of malwareSep 12 21:39
ThistleWebjona was the arc story right?Sep 12 21:39
schestowitzYeah.Sep 12 21:40
schestowitzBut it's also a European nameSep 12 21:40
schestowitzNordic I thinkSep 12 21:40
ThistleWebthought so, after I said that I had second thoughts, it didn't sound rightSep 12 21:40
schestowitzHere is the post: http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/09/10/lifehacker-and-ubuntu-a-response/Sep 12 21:41
ThistleWeb"the power of community compels thee"Sep 12 21:41
schestowitzhttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/27664/53/Sep 12 21:43
schestowitzThistleWeb: well, what they do in  Ubuntu reach everyone elseSep 12 21:43
schestowitzBut they are GNOME-focusedSep 12 21:43
schestowitzFair 'nuffSep 12 21:43
schestowitzShuttleworth might swap over to KDE one daySep 12 21:44
schestowitzNot any time soon thoughSep 12 21:44
schestowitzHis users and enterprises too depend on GNOME nowSep 12 21:44
schestowitzUbuntu could become a dual-DE distrosSep 12 21:44
schestowitzAs much as they wish to avoid itSep 12 21:44
schestowitzLike OpenSUSESep 12 21:44
schestowitzWith GNOME as default at firstSep 12 21:44
ThistleWebI never liked the idea of a different DE becoming a different dirtsoSep 12 21:45
MinceRor they could just rename kubuntu to ubuntu and ubuntu to gubuntuSep 12 21:45
schestowitzThen more 10.x or 11.x users will be tempted to try kde 5 or kde 4Sep 12 21:45
MinceRi prefer multi-DE distrosSep 12 21:45
ThistleWebmost others dont change names when they put a new DE onSep 12 21:45
schestowitzThistleWeb: yes, makes no choiceSep 12 21:45
schestowitzDuplication of efforts for them tooSep 12 21:45
schestowitzThey try to standardise, they say...Sep 12 21:45
schestowitzBut THEN...Sep 12 21:45
schestowitzThey make another separate CD...Sep 12 21:45
MinceRit's also a cop-out from actually supporting major DEsSep 12 21:46
schestowitzSo where is the STANDARD?Sep 12 21:46
ThistleWebnot really, kubuntu and xubuntu hardly get much effort put in anywaySep 12 21:46
DaemonFCschestowitz: http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/its-back-to-school-time-this-year-your-kids-get-taught-a-lesson-by-professor-riaa/Sep 12 21:46
DaemonFC:)Sep 12 21:46
ThistleWebit does add to the confusion thoughSep 12 21:46
schestowitzWhy not just admit they can augment the repos better?Sep 12 21:46
MinceRwell, kubuntu and xubuntu are marginalized by this situationSep 12 21:46
schestowitzThough kde-desktop in Ubuntu 7.04 worked wellSep 12 21:46
schestowitzryan, handy, thanksSep 12 21:47
schestowitzI want to decide on curricum TOO!!!!!!!!!! :-) :-)Sep 12 21:47
schestowitzI say we all need to teach kids on why drinking coke is bad, bad, bad!!Sep 12 21:47
schestowitzJust 2 hours per week in all schools!!Sep 12 21:48
schestowitzJust 2 hoursSep 12 21:48
MinceRi say we need to teach kids how politicians and megacorps rip them offSep 12 21:48
schestowitzBut I guess it takes a lot of corrupt bastards like the conglematres to bribe enough politicans or grab enough chairs to decide how kids should be 'shaped'Sep 12 21:48
DaemonFC"(After you’ve pointed out that we could have made a billion dollars selling data that didn’t cost anything to duplicate, the children in your class will undoubtedly see the error of their ways."Sep 12 21:48
DaemonFCheheSep 12 21:48
schestowitzMinceR: it would make dissidenceSep 12 21:49
schestowitzWe need servants, not indpedent thinkers :-pSep 12 21:49
MinceRyeah, we need servants, not turristsSep 12 21:49
MinceR:>Sep 12 21:49
DaemonFCschestowitz: I have never had anything nice to say about RIAA/MPAASep 12 21:49
DaemonFCin my opinion, they're lower than MicrosoftSep 12 21:49
DaemonFCmuch lowerSep 12 21:49
schestowitzThey areSep 12 21:49
schestowitzI knowSep 12 21:49
schestowitzBut it's another areaSep 12 21:50
schestowitzBanksters tooSep 12 21:50
schestowitzIt takes accountants/economists to take the s* out of themSep 12 21:50
DaemonFCthere's certain things that even Microsoft has yet to do to their customersSep 12 21:50
schestowitzWe do computingSep 12 21:50
DaemonFCthe RIAA has already been there and bought the t-shirtSep 12 21:50
MinceRat least the MAFIAA didn't put taxes on new computers...yetSep 12 21:51
DaemonFCMinceR: They do actuallySep 12 21:51
DaemonFCpart of the cost of Windows goes to the MPEG group and Fruanhofer for patent licensesSep 12 21:51
MinceRso did they manage to put their tax on built-in HDDs too?Sep 12 21:51
MinceRoh.Sep 12 21:51
DaemonFCso they get their cutSep 12 21:51
MinceRwell, that's m$'s fault, not the MAFIAA'sSep 12 21:51
MinceRif we weren't forced to pay the m$ tax, the MAFIAA wouldn't get thatSep 12 21:52
DaemonFCMinceR: Well, to be fair, they did try to undermine the other greedy corporate bastards with Windows MediaSep 12 21:52
DaemonFC:)Sep 12 21:52
DaemonFCso you can't say they didn't trySep 12 21:52
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DaemonFCyou think AAC is bad, just be grateful WMA went nowhereSep 12 21:54
DaemonFCschestowitz: any other industry would kill to be in Microsoft's positionSep 12 21:56
DaemonFCafter they do research and development, they only have to make the first copySep 12 21:56
DaemonFCthen they can make a billion more for the cost of the disc it's on and a cardboard boxSep 12 21:56
DaemonFCWho wouldn't love to have an opportunity like that?Sep 12 21:57
Diablo-D3woahSep 12 21:57
Diablo-D3sam ramji quit microsoftSep 12 21:58
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schestowitzDiablo-D3: yeah, not only himSep 12 22:03
schestowitzAnother member of the board has just quitSep 12 22:03
schestowitzJames Cash to Retire From Microsoft Board of Directors http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS176573+11-Sep-2009+PRN20090911Sep 12 22:05
schestowitzMicrosoft's Ballmer threatens iPhone with violence << http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/sep/11/steve-ballmer-iphone >> quoted for the headlineSep 12 22:07
Diablo-D3wtf is going on at microswoftSep 12 22:07
schestowitzHarvard professor leaving Microsoft's board http://www.cnbc.com/id/32802816Sep 12 22:07
schestowitzDiablo-D3: you don't know???Sep 12 22:07
schestowitzIt has been dying since 2008 at leastSep 12 22:08
schestowitzstaff exodusSep 12 22:08
Diablo-D3schestowitz: I mean, other than the usual brand of failSep 12 22:08
schestowitzThey borrow money nowSep 12 22:08
Diablo-D3they've had an ongoing staff exodus for like 20 years dudeSep 12 22:08
schestowitzMicrosoft is dyingSep 12 22:08
Diablo-D3has netcraft confirmed it?Sep 12 22:08
schestowitzAnd laying off quietly (last week's news)Sep 12 22:08
schestowitzThat's why they try to kill Linux. HAHA!Sep 12 22:08
schestowitzSending trolls to sueSep 12 22:08
schestowitzAnd Best Bribe staff to mockSep 12 22:09
MinceRyou mean Worst Buy?Sep 12 22:10
schestowitzWorst bribeSep 12 22:11
schestowitzIt backfired.Sep 12 22:11
schestowitzBadlySep 12 22:11
schestowitzRyan had the whitleblower leave a commentSep 12 22:11
schestowitzThen asked to have it removedSep 12 22:11
schestowitzBest Bribe bosses probably walk around swinging a massive axeSep 12 22:11
schestowitzGolden AxeSep 12 22:11
schestowitzhttp://www.fsf.org/free-software-supporterSep 12 22:12
schestowitzI'm keeping distant from the FSFSep 12 22:12
schestowitzBN is its own creature, I guess.Sep 12 22:13
schestowitzNo leaders, anarchy!!! Anarchy, I tellllls ya!Sep 12 22:13
MinceRthat would be niceSep 12 22:13
DaemonFChmmm, I picked the right time to go to the store I guessSep 12 22:15
DaemonFClady in front of me forgot her shopper's card so I let her scan mine and I got all those gas discount pointsSep 12 22:15
DaemonFCby the time my tank is dry, I'll have about 30 cents a gallon offSep 12 22:16
schestowitzHehe.Sep 12 22:17
schestowitzIt pays off to help people. Literally.Sep 12 22:17
DaemonFCschestowitz: I have a gas guzzlerSep 12 22:18
schestowitzWhere in UK stores can one buy a Sarko voodoo doll like the ones they banned in France?Sep 12 22:18
DaemonFCwould have qualified for that gas guzzler rebate program except it got 1 mpg too much when it was newSep 12 22:18
schestowitzDaemonFC: keep it in your pants, thenSep 12 22:18
DaemonFCschestowitz: I don't mean SUV or anythingSep 12 22:19
schestowitzSarko is big business to the extremeSep 12 22:19
DaemonFCjust not great mileage for a carSep 12 22:19
*MinceR wants an APCSep 12 22:19
schestowitzWho votes for this tool?Sep 12 22:19
MinceRit's unsafe to drive anything else, except a tankSep 12 22:19
DaemonFCMinceR: a Stryker perhaps?Sep 12 22:19
MinceRMajor Stryker?Sep 12 22:19
DaemonFCsomething with an autocannon and a few missile launchers?Sep 12 22:19
DaemonFC:)Sep 12 22:19
MinceRi was thinking along the lines of a BTR-90Sep 12 22:19
schestowitzMinceR: with shells?Sep 12 22:19
MinceRthat would be niceSep 12 22:19
MinceRwell, i think onboard weaponry would be illegal hereSep 12 22:19
schestowitzMinceR: for obstructions?Sep 12 22:19
schestowitzMinceR: use an on-board egg pelterSep 12 22:20
MinceRhopefully armor isn't illegalSep 12 22:20
DaemonFCschestowitz: Depends what you mean by "obstructions" I guessSep 12 22:20
MinceRso that if an idiot runs into me at max speed, they won't be able to make a dentSep 12 22:20
schestowitzDaemonFC: walls and staffSep 12 22:20
DaemonFClike, does the guy that darts in front of you then starts doing 15 mph count?Sep 12 22:20
schestowitzIt's like clipping in Duke3DSep 12 22:20
schestowitzDaemonFC: you can accelerate it in other waysSep 12 22:21
schestowitzLike ana armour fistSep 12 22:21
DaemonFCcause in my book, that's a valid targetSep 12 22:21
MinceRlike the guy who insist on coming into my lane despite the fact that there's no room for him and that he didn't signalSep 12 22:21
MinceRs/st/sts/Sep 12 22:21
DaemonFCMinceR: A cop tried to ticket me for not signaling in a "timely manner"Sep 12 22:22
MinceRwell they don't do that hereSep 12 22:22
DaemonFCI told her "Nobody else even uses the damned things"Sep 12 22:22
MinceRat least not to wealthy peopleSep 12 22:22
schestowitzDaemonFC: tell them to go get the MadoffsSep 12 22:22
schestowitzAnd stop nitpicking on driversSep 12 22:22
MinceRDaemonFC: obviously you didn't seem rich enoughSep 12 22:22
schestowitzAnd people who smoke plantsSep 12 22:22
trmancohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVvs6LmO_38Sep 12 22:22
schestowitztrmanco: borowed from CompizSep 12 22:23
schestowitz*rroSep 12 22:23
ThistleWebin south africa they have flame throwers as car alarmsSep 12 22:24
ThistleWebor they used toSep 12 22:24
schestowitztrmanco: I'll put it in Daily Link to make people hungry for kde3Sep 12 22:24
ThistleWebto deter thieves and car jackersSep 12 22:24
schestowitz*kde4Sep 12 22:24
trmancohahahSep 12 22:24
trmancouse the slide back effectSep 12 22:24
trmanco:DSep 12 22:24
trmancoit's c000lSep 12 22:24
ThistleWebit may have been made illegal since peeps thought of doing it and started adapting their carsSep 12 22:25
DaemonFCI liked that disintegration beam the cab driver had in Heavy MetalSep 12 22:25
schestowitztrmanco: useful?Sep 12 22:25
ThistleWebno way in hell a flame thrower would ever be legal in the UKSep 12 22:26
trmanconoSep 12 22:26
trmancojust eyecandySep 12 22:26
schestowitzThistleWeb: not in cars anywaySep 12 22:26
schestowitzMaybe express grillingSep 12 22:26
ThistleWeblol trueSep 12 22:26
schestowitzThe USian army adopted flamethrowers IIRCSep 12 22:26
schestowitzI read something 1-2 years agoSep 12 22:27
DaemonFCYahoo is knocking Pidgin offlineSep 12 22:27
DaemonFCdunno if it's intentional, but it takes all my other IM networks with itSep 12 22:27
DaemonFCseems to be doing it more with Kopete thoughSep 12 22:28
DaemonFCI wish I could slap people that use these horrible proprietary networksSep 12 22:28
schestowitzYou know what I've just realised?Sep 12 22:28
DaemonFC?Sep 12 22:29
schestowitzamaok 2.1 in kde 4.3.1 is super stableSep 12 22:29
*Tallken has quit (Remote closed the connection)Sep 12 22:29
schestowitzNever crashed on me in almost a weekSep 12 22:29
DaemonFCschestowitz: it also nukes Last FMSep 12 22:29
DaemonFCenforces their paywallSep 12 22:29
schestowitzDaemonFC: fair enough for themSep 12 22:29
DaemonFCas of yesterdaySep 12 22:29
schestowitzBlame last.fmSep 12 22:29
schestowitzAmarok gives the integration for 'kickbacks['Sep 12 22:29
schestowitzDon't like it? Don't use itSep 12 22:29
schestowitzThat's how FOSS makes moneySep 12 22:29
schestowitzServiceSep 12 22:29
DaemonFCkickbacks?Sep 12 22:29
schestowitzScare quotesSep 12 22:30
schestowitzamarok gets paid to make more subs, gets paid to develop. Everyone is happy, users may be tooSep 12 22:31
schestowitzryan, use local musicSep 12 22:31
schestowitzhttp://torrentfreak.com/sxsw-2009-on-bittorrent-6-gb-of-free-music-090312/Sep 12 22:31
schestowitzI listen to it these daysSep 12 22:32
schestowitzOver 1000 songs, inc. good onesSep 12 22:32
schestowitzI have amarok show me the wikipedia entries on the artists automaticallySep 12 22:32
schestowitzSo I get to know those bands that give away free tracjksSep 12 22:32
schestowitzThey win, I win, MAFIAA losesSep 12 22:32
*DaemonFC_ (n=ryan@c-69-245-224-210.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellSep 12 22:33
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DaemonFC_I'm calling their "support"Sep 12 22:33
DaemonFC_againSep 12 22:34
DaemonFC_for reasons unknownSep 12 22:34
DaemonFC_oh damn themSep 12 22:35
schestowitzWHose?Sep 12 22:39
schestowitzCOmkkkast?Sep 12 22:39
DaemonFC_yesSep 12 22:42
trmancohttp://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/browse_frm/thread/2a13b2281d6f1d4b#Sep 12 22:43
trmancosee thatSep 12 22:43
*DaemonFC_ is now known as DaemonFCSep 12 22:43
trmancoon kOlaSep 12 22:43
*trmanco is now known as KtrmancoSep 12 22:43
Ktrmanco:DSep 12 22:43
*Ktrmanco is now known as trmancoSep 12 22:44
MinceRthe KDE version?Sep 12 22:44
DaemonFCthey're sending a tech out on MondaySep 12 22:45
DaemonFCwonderfulSep 12 22:45
DaemonFCRyan Farmer: "Having a lovely time with my Comcrap Low Speed / Offline." 7 seconds agoSep 12 22:47
DaemonFCheheSep 12 22:47
*DaemonFC likes the Facebook widgetSep 12 22:47
DaemonFCI can get a status change in between disconnectsSep 12 22:47
DaemonFCschestowitz: They used to have commercials back when they were Roadrunner calling it "Roadrunner High Speed Online"Sep 12 22:48
DaemonFCso I started calling it "Slowrunner Low Speed/Offline"Sep 12 22:49
schestowitztrmanco: that's good stuffSep 12 22:49
schestowitzThe trolls will be pissed offSep 12 22:49
trmanco:)Sep 12 22:49
trmancomy best one was from mintSep 12 22:49
DaemonFCI'm not a troll, I just know a good job from a total messSep 12 22:49
*schestowitz gate the facebook everythingSep 12 22:50
DaemonFCGNOME is becoming more of a mess every release while KDE is getting betterSep 12 22:50
trmancofirst time I've found a testimonial with "fangs"Sep 12 22:50
schestowitz*hatesSep 12 22:50
trmancoDaemonFC: you like KDE now a :-PSep 12 22:50
DaemonFCtrmanco: GNOME used to be my preferenceSep 12 22:50
schestowitzGNOME RC is outSep 12 22:50
trmancoDaemonFC: same hereSep 12 22:50
schestowitzhttp://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-announce-list/2009-September/msg00042.htmlSep 12 22:50
schestowitzJust moments agoSep 12 22:50
DaemonFCI used to use KDE then switched to GNOME full time around 2004-ish I thinkSep 12 22:51
trmancoit's just a little incremental improvementSep 12 22:51
DaemonFCnow I'm back on KDESep 12 22:51
schestowitz4,4 has some nice thingsSep 12 22:51
trmancognome 2 in it's early days was buggySep 12 22:51
schestowitzSeigo writes about itSep 12 22:51
trmancoI still remember it from 7.04Sep 12 22:51
schestowitzHe blogs less, writes more codeSep 12 22:51
DaemonFCtrmanco: If you made a flip book out of every GNOME release in the last three years, I couldn't tell you which version was whichSep 12 22:51
trmancoschestowitz: QT is getting aster tooSep 12 22:51
schestowitzIt's good for devsSep 12 22:51
trmancotrueSep 12 22:51
schestowitzUnlike Mono marketing nonsenseSep 12 22:51
trmancoit always looks the sameSep 12 22:52
schestowitzThat's what they brag aboutSep 12 22:52
DaemonFCGNOME in Ubuntu started to suck after 7.10Sep 12 22:52
schestowitzWidgets are easy to makeSep 12 22:52
trmancoIMO, it started getting betterSep 12 22:52
schestowitzI'll post some news in a whileSep 12 22:52
schestowitzMicrosoft makes me laughSep 12 22:52
schestowitzStill abandoned by key staffSep 12 22:52
MinceRs/Slowrunner/Roadcrawler/Sep 12 22:52
DaemonFCbetween 7.10 and 9.04, they were both about equally unusable with GNOME maybe not being quite as badSep 12 22:52
schestowitzWhile Linux goes strongSep 12 22:52
DaemonFCnow KDE is in the leadSep 12 22:52
schestowitzNo wonder they send the trollsSep 12 22:53
trmancoGnome on 9.04 was certainly the best gnome I've ever used (minus the bloat)Sep 12 22:53
schestowitzAnd brainwash Staples/Best Bribe/Office Potty staffSep 12 22:53
DaemonFCbloat is relativeSep 12 22:53
trmancono tracker, no mono, nothing that would make things slower or bloatedSep 12 22:53
DaemonFChaving preferences, features, and options that don't require tons of extra resource use is a good thingSep 12 22:53
trmanco(just python) :-PSep 12 22:53
schestowitzAnyone tried lancelot?Sep 12 22:53
schestowitzIt's quoite RAM hungrySep 12 22:53
schestowitzEven when not active as in open, just sitting there waiting for the clickSep 12 22:54
DaemonFCwhen you start throwing in the kitchen sink even though it makes the app 3 times as heavy, or removing options and features that had no effect on performance, you're gone crazySep 12 22:54
trmancoschestowitz: no, I'll wait until they put it on defaultSep 12 22:54
DaemonFCthat's where GNOME is headingSep 12 22:54
schestowitz20mb physical memorySep 12 22:54
trmancobut it looks a lot better then the one that comes default nowSep 12 22:54
schestowitzExc. shared and heapSep 12 22:54
DaemonFCschestowitz: I am using LancelotSep 12 22:54
DaemonFCexclusivelySep 12 22:54
trmanco:|Sep 12 22:54
DaemonFCI like itSep 12 22:54
trmancoso that's why they don't put it on by defaultSep 12 22:54
schestowitzWhat ever happened to Raptor?Sep 12 22:54
DaemonFCchanged the icon to the blue KSep 12 22:54
schestowitzThere was a Portuese dev working on itSep 12 22:54
DaemonFCso it didn't look so out of placeSep 12 22:54
trmancoI have nepomunk enabledSep 12 22:55
trmancosorry, nepomukSep 12 22:55
MinceRnemopunk? :>Sep 12 22:55
schestowitzLancelot maybe breaks Microsoft patent as "menu as racetangle" :-pSep 12 22:55
schestowitz /s/as/of/Sep 12 22:55
trmancothe original one is a rectangle tooSep 12 22:55
MinceRmenus tend to be rectangularSep 12 22:55
trmancoMinceR: yes it's a little punk when you first start itSep 12 22:56
schestowitztrmanco: I was jokingSep 12 22:56
MinceR:)Sep 12 22:56
schestowitzMenus like this in general are not Microsoft'sSep 12 22:56
schestowitzThat too they COPIEDSep 12 22:56
schestowitzLike most thingsSep 12 22:56
schestowitzCopy and populariseSep 12 22:56
schestowitzPeople will then even think you inventd itSep 12 22:56
trmancothe search thing comes from where?Sep 12 22:56
trmancomac I guessSep 12 22:57
schestowitzPre-XPSep 12 22:57
schestowitzYes, Apple tooSep 12 22:57
schestowitzMS copied itSep 12 22:57
schestowitzThere's memosSep 12 22:57
trmancoyou knowSep 12 22:57
schestowitzThey did SpotlightSep 12 22:57
schestowitzBadlySep 12 22:57
trmancokde needs a 3d chess game :-PSep 12 22:57
schestowitzAnd Pogue took shots at them for itSep 12 22:57
schestowitzDavid Pogue from NYTSep 12 22:57
trmancobut K styleSep 12 22:57
trmancoKhessSep 12 22:57
MinceRpogue is a crApple cultist, isn't he?Sep 12 22:57
schestowitz"Vista is not at all like OS X....."Sep 12 22:57
DaemonFCGNOME started with good intentionsSep 12 22:57
schestowitz[famous vid]Sep 12 22:57
trmancoGnome started lightSep 12 22:58
schestowitztrmanco: it has oenSep 12 22:58
schestowitzIn KDE4 there's 3d chessSep 12 22:58
schestowitzSince ages agoSep 12 22:58
DaemonFCto be fair there did used to be a lot of stupid preferences and options cluttering up the placeSep 12 22:58
schestowitzALso MarbleSep 12 22:58
trmancoschestowitz: name?Sep 12 22:58
MinceRgnome started out as a KDE clone :>Sep 12 22:58
schestowitzI've got to try Marble...Sep 12 22:58
*trmanco searchesSep 12 22:58
MinceRand it was better that waySep 12 22:58
DaemonFCinstead of stopping there they declared a War on FeaturesSep 12 22:58
schestowitzIt uses openstreetmap, which improves over timeSep 12 22:58
schestowitztrmanco: can't recallSep 12 22:58
trmanco"chess" returns a google searchSep 12 22:59
*schestowitz installs marbleSep 12 22:59
schestowitztrmanco: in the package managerSep 12 22:59
DaemonFCI liked how Linus Torvalds put itSep 12 22:59
trmancookSep 12 23:00
schestowitzLinus will retry kdeSep 12 23:00
schestowitzHe said soSep 12 23:00
DaemonFCif they remove features because they don't have the developers to maintain it, that's understandableSep 12 23:00
schestowitze tried 4.0.0Sep 12 23:00
schestowitz*heSep 12 23:00
DaemonFCif they kill features because they declare the user to always be an idiot, that's notSep 12 23:00
schestowitzNice.....Sep 12 23:00
schestowitzMarble...Sep 12 23:00
schestowitzDoesn't look BUTT UGLY like Google EarthSep 12 23:00
sebsebsebjust, because Linus or Mark or someone famous like that, is useing Gnome or KDE or whatever, it doesn't mean that's the best oneSep 12 23:00
sebsebsebbest program depends on a user and their needsSep 12 23:01
trmancoLinus if influential, that's allSep 12 23:01
sebsebsebpeople that follow what someone famous is doing when it comes to software choice, and only really, becasue of that, hmmSep 12 23:01
DaemonFCschestowitz: Google Earth for Linux is a Windows programSep 12 23:01
sebsebsebDaemonFC: yeah the one with the edited Wine,  no that's Piccasa for Linux I thinkSep 12 23:02
DaemonFCit's wrapped in it's own miniature copy of WineSep 12 23:02
DaemonFCGoogle Earth does it tooSep 12 23:02
schestowitzWikipedia integration also, like amarokSep 12 23:02
schestowitzDaemonFC: yes, wineSep 12 23:02
schestowitzQt+openglSep 12 23:02
schestowitzSo no idea why they ported so poorlySep 12 23:02
trmancoAMAROK NEED EQ :-pSep 12 23:02
trmancooopsSep 12 23:03
DaemonFCschestowitz: It makes sense to use Wine if you're using OpenGL anywaySep 12 23:03
DaemonFCthe performance impact is negligibleSep 12 23:03
schestowitzMake NO senseSep 12 23:03
DaemonFCand it's code you don't have to rewriteSep 12 23:03
schestowitzCool!Sep 12 23:03
schestowitzIt does many maps, including historicalSep 12 23:04
schestowitzTemperature maps also.Sep 12 23:04
schestowitzI'll play with it on SundaySep 12 23:04
DaemonFCschestowitz: It's basically a way to support Linux without spending tons of money on a port or not doing one at allSep 12 23:04
DaemonFCand leaving users to fend for themselvesSep 12 23:04
MinceR000609 <@schestowitz> So no idea why they ported so poorlySep 12 23:04
MinceRit's because they're googleSep 12 23:04
MinceRthey utterly fail at software developmentSep 12 23:04
DaemonFCmy favorite bit was using GTK+ on the Linux version of ChromeSep 12 23:05
DaemonFCickthSep 12 23:05
DaemonFCpolitical decisionSep 12 23:05
trmanco:|Sep 12 23:05
DaemonFCprobably figuring Ubuntu is the only thing anyone usesSep 12 23:05
trmancoshould have been QTSep 12 23:05
DaemonFCOpera is QT and runs jsut fine under GNOMESep 12 23:06
schestowitzThere's room for addition in Manchester (GB) mapsSep 12 23:06
trmancoyesSep 12 23:06
trmancoand vice versaSep 12 23:06
schestowitzsome street names are missingSep 12 23:06
trmancoGnome is GTK and it runs fine in KDESep 12 23:06
schestowitzI might add some via the openstreetmap siteSep 12 23:06
DaemonFCif they had to choose one or the other, QT makes more sense in a cross platform programSep 12 23:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I'm playing with Marble at the moment ( #kde ). It's amazing.Sep 12 23:07
DaemonFCGTK+ on Windows is a train wreckSep 12 23:07
schestowitzI tried to install GIMP on WindowsSep 12 23:07
schestowitzI succeeded, but it's complicatedSep 12 23:07
schestowitzEasier on WindowsSep 12 23:07
trmanco?Sep 12 23:07
schestowitzI was on vacation at my cousins in Miami, so there was just WIndowsSep 12 23:08
DaemonFCGimp has a 64-bit Windows build nowSep 12 23:08
schestowitzOOPSSep 12 23:08
trmancoYou got a little mixed thereSep 12 23:08
schestowitzI mean, easier on LinuxSep 12 23:08
schestowitzWindows makes it hard to use some FOSSSep 12 23:08
schestowitzMaybe Firefox is OK, but other stuff required a stack of other staffSep 12 23:08
DaemonFCand easier to use some tooSep 12 23:08
DaemonFCVLC is getting that waySep 12 23:08
MinceRwindows makes it hard to use the computerSep 12 23:08
schestowitzGood luck getting MikTeX and staff for latex work, including lyxSep 12 23:08
schestowitzIn Linux it's a simple tickbox in the manager of packagers that will resolve all dependencies.Sep 12 23:09
DaemonFCVLC is getting that way just cause of politicsSep 12 23:09
DaemonFCVLC is hard to properly support on Linux just because of the nature of LinuxSep 12 23:10
schestowitzThere is also coarse satellite data in MarbleSep 12 23:10
DaemonFCand then there's the patent laws which some distros care about and some don'tSep 12 23:10
DaemonFCso you get screwed jsut trying to get it to recognize your devices because of all the conflicting sound systems in LinuxSep 12 23:11
DaemonFCthen if you succeed there, you may get a crippled copy that's missing codecsSep 12 23:11
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection)Sep 12 23:11
DaemonFCthat just tells you what kind of contempt that sites like Justin.TV and Ustream have for Theora and VorbisSep 12 23:12
DaemonFCwouldn't cost them a thing and they still demand nonfree formats from youSep 12 23:12
schestowitz"We love you Ubuntu, but you're ugly!" < http://www.idreamoflinux.com/2009/09/we-love-you-ubuntu-but-your-ugly.html >Sep 12 23:14
schestowitz[by default]Sep 12 23:15
schestowitzBut it's a matter of taste reallySep 12 23:15
schestowitzSome people want to taste brown foods like country bread... tastes goodSep 12 23:15
schestowitzI never use VLCSep 12 23:15
schestowitzKaffeine is wonderfulSep 12 23:16
schestowitzIt uses qt4 now, as wellSep 12 23:16
schestowitzThey added some nice panel stuffSep 12 23:16
schestowitzPlays everything you throw it after Amarok downloads all the 'bad' codecsSep 12 23:16
schestowitzMinceR: thoughts on this.... ? http://www.h-online.com/open/Apple-open-source-Grand-Central--/news/114221Sep 12 23:16
MinceRit could be useful, i'm not sureSep 12 23:17
MinceRi don't quite know what it isSep 12 23:17
schestowitzWHat does it smell like?Sep 12 23:20
schestowitzTBH, Apple 'open source' never has the same same BO as so-called 'open source' which comes from BallmerSep 12 23:20
schestowitzhttp://www.ubuntumini.com/2009/09/make-your-root-windows-pretty.htmlMake Your Root Windows PrettySep 12 23:21
schestowitzOops. Make Your Root Windows Pretty --> http://www.ubuntumini.com/2009/09/make-your-root-windows-pretty.htmlSep 12 23:21
schestowitzWhy is it ugly in the first place?Sep 12 23:22
MinceRnice ideaSep 12 23:22
schestowitzMinceR: related to it: Get the Most Out of Your Multicore Processor < http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/tutorials/6840/1/ >Sep 12 23:23
MinceRi mean, symlinking that stuff into /root is niceSep 12 23:23
schestowitzIn SUSE 8.1 root access gave me Qt with default palette colours, so white rather than my blackSep 12 23:23
schestowitzIt looks funnySep 12 23:23
*DaemonFC has quit (Remote closed the connection)Sep 12 23:24
schestowitzMinceR: [IMG] http://opensource.org/node/465Sep 12 23:25
schestowitzOur friend SweatyBSep 12 23:25
MinceRseen itSep 12 23:25
schestowitz /s/friend/fiend/Sep 12 23:25
schestowitzMinceR: you read the site?Sep 12 23:25
MinceRnopeSep 12 23:26
*Balrog_ has quit ("bye")Sep 12 23:26
MinceRsomeone linked the imageSep 12 23:26
schestowitzBallmer: "Fly my pretties...."Sep 12 23:26
schestowitzJobs: "Fly my shinnnnnies.."Sep 12 23:26
schestowitzLinus: "Pretty fly for a white guy..."Sep 12 23:26
schestowitzRMS: "My fly's open?????"Sep 12 23:27
MinceR:)Sep 12 23:27
*DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-69-245-224-210.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellSep 12 23:28
schestowitzhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8250592.stmSep 12 23:28
schestowitzHe's from here in Manchester, like TOm KilburnSep 12 23:29
schestowitzFirst programmable computer in the worldSep 12 23:29
schestowitzFirst GNU/Linux distro also (MCC)Sep 12 23:29
schestowitzSoftware that I use that are not in the default install of ubuntu < http://shanefagan.com/2009/09/11/software-that-i-use-that-are-not-in-the-default-install-of-ubuntu/ >    <---me : kde-desktop, first thing I do when installing UbuntuSep 12 23:32
schestowitzSince 2007Sep 12 23:32
schestowitzDid OINk say which patents it got from Microsoft?Sep 12 23:33
cubezzzhmmm?Sep 12 23:33
trmancoLOLSep 12 23:34
trmancooinkSep 12 23:34
schestowitzit calls them weak, but any numbers?Sep 12 23:34
schestowitzYeahSep 12 23:34
schestowitzWait, I have an imageSep 12 23:34
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/oin-oink.jpgSep 12 23:34
schestowitzBTW:Sep 12 23:34
schestowitzFFII does not like OIN so muchSep 12 23:34
trmanco:)Sep 12 23:35
schestowitzBut Moglen just gave kudos to OINSep 12 23:35
schestowitzSo OIN is not the bad guySep 12 23:35
schestowitzMayeb FFII is a little enviousSep 12 23:35
schestowitzOIN is a US thingSep 12 23:35
schestowitzWhere sw pats existSep 12 23:35
cubezzzI'm glad I wasn't around in the 50'sSep 12 23:35
schestowitzWhy?Sep 12 23:35
schestowitz50s were OKSep 12 23:35
schestowitzNot so post-warSep 12 23:36
schestowitzUnless you lived in Dresden or somethingSep 12 23:36
cubezzzLook what happened to Turing...Sep 12 23:36
cubezzzdidn't Babbage make the first programmable computer or was it never finished?Sep 12 23:37
schestowitzUpdating timestamps of mp3 files alphabetically and recursively http://www.frenssen.be/?q=node/5Sep 12 23:37
schestowitzcubezzz: not sure what he did.Sep 12 23:37
schestowitzThey tried to 'cure' himSep 12 23:37
schestowitzWho knows... maybe gave him hookers or somethingSep 12 23:37
cubezzzinjection with female hormones?Sep 12 23:38
cubezzzjust seems wrong :)Sep 12 23:38
cubezzzok, Babbage originated the concept of the programmable computerSep 12 23:38
cubezzzhe didn't actually build oneSep 12 23:39
cubezzzor complete itSep 12 23:39
schestowitzDaemonFC: what editor do you use?Sep 12 23:40
schestowitzcubezzz: yes, then Turing machineSep 12 23:40
schestowitzI learned all about it back in the daysSep 12 23:40
schestowitzWhat's it about female hormones?Sep 12 23:41
DaemonFCschestowitz: nanoSep 12 23:41
schestowitzWouldn't that make him even /more/ homosexual?Sep 12 23:41
cubezzzthey tried to 'cure' Turing by injecting him with female hormonesSep 12 23:41
schestowitzOr worse yet, grow breasts or soemthing?Sep 12 23:41
cubezzzyeah, I was just thinking thatSep 12 23:41
schestowitzThat's what typically would happen.Sep 12 23:41
schestowitzcubezzz: that's how they kill peopleSep 12 23:41
schestowitzLike that Canadian dude whose penis was whacked by the machine at the hospital and whose doctors wanted to make him a femaleSep 12 23:42
schestowitzHe resented them for it and there's a documentary (at least one) about itSep 12 23:42
schestowitzThey try to mess with DNA using chemicals. It doesn't work that waySep 12 23:43
cubezzzwhacked?Sep 12 23:43
schestowitzWe don't even know how to modify DNA sequences without creating uber-monstersSep 12 23:43
cubezzzyou mean it was removed?Sep 12 23:43
MinceRhormones can't change the DNASep 12 23:43
schestowitzcubezzz: some laser thingSep 12 23:43
MinceRretroviruses canSep 12 23:43
schestowitzcubezzz: something like thatSep 12 23:43
schestowitzDid he have a twin?Sep 12 23:43
schestowitzI can't recallSep 12 23:43
cubezzzok, but still I don't think the medical dudes from the 50's really understood what they were doingSep 12 23:44
cubezzznot in Turing's caseSep 12 23:44
schestowitzWell, maybe it's an experimentSep 12 23:52
schestowitzI used to think homosexuality was to do with how people are brought upSep 12 23:52
schestowitzBut what do I know....?Sep 12 23:52
schestowitzGay people argue and show proof to show it's geneticSep 12 23:52
schestowitzAnd someone recently claimed to have found the hereditary part that leads to itSep 12 23:53
schestowitzWhat's baffling in all this is the principle of natural selection and why animals and humans still have this variation existing and thrivingSep 12 23:54
schestowitzIf the assumption is that maximal reproduction -- as demeaning as it may seem -- is that which leads to more spreading of the genesSep 12 23:54
cubezzzI can think of one possibility...Sep 12 23:59
cubezzzif a given animal overpopulates it's environment the gene kicks in...Sep 12 23:59

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