IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 13th, 2009

cubezzzthere are well over 6 *10^9 humansSep 13 00:00
MinceRusually their food getting close to extinction or their predator also overpopulating kicks inSep 13 00:00
MinceRthere's no evolutionary advantage to a species limiting its own reproductionSep 13 00:01
cubezzzexcept humans don't really have predatorsSep 13 00:02
cubezzzunless you count other humansSep 13 00:02
MinceRno apex predator doesSep 13 00:02
MinceRthe food issue regulates them thoughSep 13 00:02
MinceRin the case of humans, that doesn't work too wellSep 13 00:02
MinceRwhere did mozilla hide the source code download for firefox?Sep 13 00:03
cubezzzwell we just keep encroaching on the environment moreSep 13 00:03
MinceRall i can get is the binary packageSep 13 00:04
MinceRi think i've found itSep 13 00:05
MinceRbut damn, it's hidden as if it was proprietary or somethingSep 13 00:05
MinceRmozilla.com -> community/mozilla developer center -> participating in the mozilla project -> general topics/mozilla source code -> downloading the code using http or ftp -> links to the ftp server and http server in the textSep 13 00:08
schestowitzcubezzz: bacteriumSep 13 00:11
schestowitzIn theory, has many people rotten in a plague, then bacteria could flourishSep 13 00:11
schestowitz*hadSep 13 00:11
schestowitzI'll do news now...Sep 13 00:12
schestowitzIn my shiiiiiiiiiiiny kde widgetsSep 13 00:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Debian #GNU #Linux Desktop Takes 3 Hours to Get Right, #Windows Takes 9 Hours http://bit.ly/ckUhHSep 13 00:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Tattoos of the Future Galore http://bit.ly/yzjUv #linux #bsdSep 13 00:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] linuX-gamers.net Turns 6 http://bit.ly/4pk92ESep 13 00:20
cubezzzlearning about modules a bit moreSep 13 00:20
cubezzzlooking at this I would say the video driver isn't a module itselfSep 13 00:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Heaps of #Graphics Goodies Land on #Linux http://bit.ly/CBjhW http://bit.ly/1AMPsx http://bit.ly/3h4tn3 http://bit.ly/3w1zsUSep 13 00:22
cubezzzmy next computer will have no binary blobsSep 13 00:22
cubezzzI hopeSep 13 00:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gains for #GNU #Linux in #Datacentres, #Hilti Moves to GNU/Linux #Servers http://bit.ly/3p4qILSep 13 00:27
schestowitzDo you game?Sep 13 00:27
schestowitzLCA sell PCs in the west coast (US) with gnewsense preinstalledSep 13 00:28
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cubezzzschestowitz, I play majesty and a few other gamesSep 13 00:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KDE 4.3 is Loved http://bit.ly/41mkT , #GNOME Reaches New RC http://bit.ly/NmIJ3Sep 13 00:31
cubezzzstupid zaurus won't communicateSep 13 00:32
schestowitzGraphics card require binaries usuallySep 13 00:33
schestowitz*cards\Sep 13 00:33
schestowitzSo the blob barrier is therrSep 13 00:33
schestowitzFlash can be substituted with gnashSep 13 00:33
MinceRor swfdecSep 13 00:35
MinceRbut it won't play everythingSep 13 00:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FSF Adds #Kongoni to List of Approves Free (Libre) Distributions http://bit.ly/2mslwCSep 13 00:36
cubezzzok, I have computers with binary blobs but I want to build _one_ without binary blobsSep 13 00:37
cubezzzof course commercial games themselves will be binary blobs but I have signed a NDA :)Sep 13 00:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SmoothWall #GNU #Linux Distribution in the Washington Post (MelindaG) http://bit.ly/1bWoiDSep 13 00:38
cubezzzthe loki games will probably always remain binary blobsSep 13 00:38
cubezzzI'll call my new computer the "Stallman 5000"Sep 13 00:39
cubezzzweird, the zaurus doesn't seem to generate anything on dmesgSep 13 00:40
cubezzzbut it's working nowSep 13 00:40
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cubezzzwait a sec, nvidia does seem to be a moduleSep 13 00:43
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cubezzzand I don't seem to have any source code at all for nvidia driversSep 13 00:45
cubezzzis that right, there's no open source driver for any nvidia card?Sep 13 00:47
schestowitznvSep 13 00:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Debian Manages the Money to Improve Things http://bit.ly/EIaTvSep 13 00:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Fedora Mini is Made Specifically for Small Machines http://bit.ly/sF1nc , #FUDCon Coming http://bit.ly/SsHmvSep 13 00:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Keeps Gaining at Expense of #Sun / #Oracle http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=24203Sep 13 00:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Two New Reviews of #MoonOS 3.0 ( #GNU #Linux #Distribution ) http://bit.ly/zE0H8 http://bit.ly/19cOlMSep 13 01:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Latest #gOS #GNU #Linux is #Review ed http://bit.ly/1wRs37Sep 13 01:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Motorola 's Modern #Linux #Phones Make an Appearance http://bit.ly/18MoLtSep 13 01:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ASUS #Eee #Videophone Runs #Linux http://bit.ly/1OAwhz #itsbetteriwthlinuxSep 13 01:18
schestowitzgnSep 13 01:19
_goblingnSep 13 01:21
MinceRo/Sep 13 01:21
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_Hicham_hi MinceRSep 13 05:59
_Hicham_who is in here ?Sep 13 06:02
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balzac-_^Sep 13 06:26
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Government of #Russia Moves to #GNU #Linux from Top to Bottom http://bit.ly/hU13aSep 13 07:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Brazil Shows the Way in #FreeSoftware Migrations http://www.egovmonitor.com/node/27939Sep 13 07:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Fake 'Open Source' Gets Rejected by Users http://bit.ly/3Ib7USep 13 07:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Openness / #OpenSource Spreads to #Genomics #Research http://bit.ly/19jAhuSep 13 08:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Kids to be Indoctrinated at Taxpayers' Expense by #IntellectualMonopolies #Racketeers http://techdirt.com/articles/20090911/0136516161. ...Sep 13 08:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why #IntellectualMonopolies Make Little/No Sense in a Digital Age http://bit.ly/tZe3vSep 13 08:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Board Made Smaller as Another Member Jumps the Sinking Ship http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2009/09/07/daily40.htmlSep 13 08:17
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Yahoo's Bartzmer Reveals How Much in Ballmer's Pocket She Really is, Regulators Kick in http://bit.ly/bZPYqSep 13 08:26
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Yahoo!-Microsoft Now Scrutinised by US Regulators Too http://bit.ly/KgTmqSep 13 10:24
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schestowitzhttp://twitter.com/dmahugh/statuses/3940494992Sep 13 10:31
schestowitz^ Microsoft managerSep 13 10:31
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schestowitzwb, [H]omer!Sep 13 11:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft #Licences Grow Unpopular While the GPL — Despite FUD — Keeps Expanding http://bit.ly/3UEiKiSep 13 11:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft #Licences Grow Unpopular While the #GPL — Despite #FUD — Keeps Expanding http://bit.ly/3UEiKiSep 13 11:32
oiaohmBoy have the press reports on kde 4.x line changed with the release of 4.3Sep 13 11:49
oiaohmI have found a few minor bugs.  Like having to sometimes refresh a folder view after just starting up.Sep 13 11:49
oiaohmNext questions should I dive into 2.6.31Sep 13 11:51
trmancoI wouldn'tSep 13 11:54
trmancowait for a few patches before you move on to that kernelSep 13 11:54
trmancolike a .1 or .2Sep 13 11:54
oiaohmThis is my much system.Sep 13 11:54
oiaohm2.6.30 was particularly nasty on the sound card in this machine.Sep 13 11:55
trmancoI'm still on a "semi-supported" 2.6.28Sep 13 11:56
oiaohmCurrent I am running is 2.6.30.5Sep 13 11:56
oiaohm2.6.31 is temping for cuse.Sep 13 11:57
oiaohmThat 6 monitors per card demo by ATI was interesting.Sep 13 12:06
MinceRschestowitz: whoaSep 13 12:06
MinceRi wonder if he'll manage to cause some changes at m$ or just lose his job in some way...Sep 13 12:07
MinceRor nothing will happenSep 13 12:08
oiaohmLot of MS staff are at risk of losing there job anyhow.Sep 13 12:09
oiaohmNow as it gets worse expect more ass saving attempts.Sep 13 12:10
MinceRwell, at least that will stir m$ up on the insideSep 13 12:10
oiaohmReally that schestowitz attacked IBM got there attention.Sep 13 12:11
oiaohmhttp://slashdot.org/story/09/09/12/2244244/Microsoft-Interns-Still-Feel-the-Love  << Of course interms have not signed long term non compete contracts yet.Sep 13 12:12
trmancowhy is stupid twitter always borked when I need it?Sep 13 12:13
trmanco:|Sep 13 12:13
oiaohmhttp://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/09/russias-new-holiday-programmers-day.html  Now that is funny.Sep 13 12:14
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, folderview does the same hereSep 13 12:14
schestowitzIt refreshed correctly at first, but after startup I need to remind it to refresh, manually. That's an easy one to address/fix.Sep 13 12:15
schestowitzKDE3 rarely had similar issues that required a refresh. A matter of condition of when/where to check for changes in filesystemSep 13 12:15
MinceRindeed.Sep 13 12:15
schestowitztrmanco: identica alsoSep 13 12:16
oiaohmMy case desktop folder plasma gets a red x in it on start up.Sep 13 12:16
schestowitzAFAIK it messed up last nightSep 13 12:17
oiaohmYep did not connect to filesystem fun.Sep 13 12:17
schestowitzIt works again since about 9 AMSep 13 12:17
trmancoidentica is working at the momentSep 13 12:17
oiaohmOther than that it updates perfectly.Sep 13 12:17
trmancoit's working againSep 13 12:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Dell renews Ubuntu Linux desktop lineup: http://is.gd/3dyM3Sep 13 12:18
schestowitzoiaohm: Microsoft interns=cheap laboutSep 13 12:18
schestowitzYou know what's almost better but more expensive and qualified?Sep 13 12:19
schestowitzTempsSep 13 12:19
schestowitzAnd then you have hb-1s and foreign employeesSep 13 12:19
MinceRfrench for 'time'? :>Sep 13 12:19
schestowitzMicrosoft hardly fired in IndiaSep 13 12:19
schestowitzI saw the imbalance and wrote about itSep 13 12:19
oiaohmNew staff straight out of collage don't make a stable programing team.Sep 13 12:20
oiaohmYou need the experienced ones to keep them in line.Sep 13 12:20
oiaohmIts always been MS mistake.Sep 13 12:20
schestowitztrmanco: yes, I'm sure something happenedSep 13 12:20
oiaohmMS had the stupid idea more new staff more creativity.Sep 13 12:20
schestowitzSometimes I need to quit blaming the widgets and realised the API is simply downSep 13 12:20
schestowitz*RealiseSep 13 12:20
oiaohmThere is no point to creativity if nothing works.Sep 13 12:20
schestowitzVista.Sep 13 12:21
schestowitzMade in BangaloreSep 13 12:21
schestowitzSame with Vista 7Sep 13 12:21
schestowitzThe Indian press wrote about it in 2007Sep 13 12:21
schestowitzI can find the article.Sep 13 12:21
schestowitzI think the Office team (bigger team, about 1000 people) is more EU/US-basedSep 13 12:21
schestowitzOffice brings Microsoft a LOT more money than WindowsSep 13 12:21
schestowitzThus the HUGE OOXML corruptionsSep 13 12:22
schestowitzWIthout Office dependency people don't need WIndows, either.Sep 13 12:22
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OIN Receives Thanks from Many, #CodePlex Foundation Receives Thumbs-Down from Many http://bit.ly/187fo3Sep 13 12:51
DaemonFCI might try OggDropXP and see if it works in WineSep 13 12:52
DaemonFChmmm, I'll be damnedSep 13 12:58
DaemonFCit does work B-)Sep 13 12:58
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DaemonFChmmmm, I had to spoof my user agent to get Wine's AppDB to workSep 13 13:17
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Symantec Fails to Understand #Security ? http://bit.ly/INCthSep 13 13:23
schestowitzhttp://linusearch.com/wordpress/?p=455Sep 13 13:25
schestowitz"Sep 13 13:25
schestowitzAre you ready to Protest?Sep 13 13:25
schestowitzSo you want to Protest against Best Buy for having their employees trained through Microsoft’s ExpertZone.Sep 13 13:25
schestowitz"Sep 13 13:25
DaemonFCthere's one up in Fort WayneSep 13 13:27
DaemonFCI regret to say that I used to buy things from themSep 13 13:27
schestowitzGet stink 'bombs'Sep 13 13:27
DaemonFCthough at the time they also sold me a copy of Mandriva Linux PowerpackSep 13 13:27
schestowitzCarry banners: "WIndows stinks" :-pSep 13 13:28
DaemonFCso obviously their policies were differentSep 13 13:28
schestowitzThey also sold Ubuntu for $20Sep 13 13:28
schestowitzWith support, around 2007Sep 13 13:28
DaemonFCyeahSep 13 13:29
DaemonFCthey ditched it right soon afterSep 13 13:29
schestowitz*LOL* http://www.daniweb.com/news/story222521.html#post984366 "Can Microsoft Change Its Stripes?"Sep 13 13:29
DaemonFCI think they only sold it for about 8 monthsSep 13 13:29
DaemonFCgot rid of it last summerSep 13 13:29
schestowitzPeople download UbuntuSep 13 13:30
DaemonFCWell, selling Ubuntu is probably not going to go over well unless it's like media+shippingSep 13 13:30
DaemonFCcause SHipIt takes foreverSep 13 13:30
DaemonFCand they only have the 32-bit x86 version nowSep 13 13:31
DaemonFCeven then, it would have to be someone that doesn't have the bandwidth to get it themselvesSep 13 13:31
DaemonFCdownloading a CD takes me about 3-4 minutesSep 13 13:31
DaemonFCschestowitz: The first CDs I ordered, I actually got twoSep 13 13:36
DaemonFCone was the live environment and the other was the actual installer for if you liked the live environmentSep 13 13:36
DaemonFCthere was no live installer CD til the second Ubuntu release (5.04)Sep 13 13:36
DaemonFC5.04 was also when they added KDESep 13 13:37
DaemonFC5.04 through 7.04, they'd send you 3 discs for x86, 3 discs for x86-64, and 3 for PowerPCSep 13 13:37
DaemonFC7.10 and 8.04 you could choose 1 x86 or 1 x86-64, and starting with 8.10, the free CD is 1 x86 32-bit  disc onlySep 13 13:38
schestowitzI have some 5.04 right hereSep 13 13:39
DaemonFCthey probably figure that if you have an x86-64 system, you can afford to download and burn your own CD, fair enoughSep 13 13:39
schestowitzSome for AMDSep 13 13:39
DaemonFCschestowitz: the AMD64 name is kind of misleadingSep 13 13:39
MinceRx86-64 is so expensive now? :>Sep 13 13:39
schestowitzHeheSep 13 13:39
DaemonFCas Intel EM64T is the same thing and almost every CPU since the last batch of Pentium 4's supports itSep 13 13:39
schestowitzThought the sameSep 13 13:39
schestowitzTechno-blubber...Sep 13 13:40
schestowitz"Let them eat Intel.."Sep 13 13:40
DaemonFCwell, people that have a system that only supports 32-bit processors either have a really old system, or a netbook which may not even have a disc drive anyway unless you buy an externalSep 13 13:40
DaemonFCI still view the "only supporting 32-bit x86" in ShipIt as a regression, but I can understand the logicSep 13 13:41
MinceRdidn't Intel rename EM64T to Intel64 already?Sep 13 13:41
trmancomy pentium 4 | 630 supports em64tSep 13 13:41
MinceRat least WP tells me they didSep 13 13:42
DaemonFCit's a regression because many people don't know that they can use X86-64 and that it works betterSep 13 13:42
trmancoI only used 64 bit onceSep 13 13:42
DaemonFCso they'll slap in the 32-bit disc and be left with most of the limitations of their Windows XP systemSep 13 13:42
DaemonFCheheSep 13 13:42
schestowitzMinceR:  Upgrade Alsa (1.0.21) on Ubuntu Jaunty 9.04 http://monespaceperso.org/blog-en/2009/08/31/upgrade-alsa-1-0-21-on-ubuntu-jaunty-9-04/Sep 13 13:42
MinceRreadingSep 13 13:42
schestowitzMinceR: move to kde4, it'll resolve any audio issue you've had, I thinkSep 13 13:42
MinceRdoesn't say anything about destroying pulseaudio ;/Sep 13 13:42
schestowitzOne thing I wonder is why my microphone volume is so low on this new installation. Any ideas?Sep 13 13:43
MinceRs/;/:/Sep 13 13:43
DaemonFCMinceR: Kubuntu works great if you set up dmixSep 13 13:43
schestowitzI tried to amplify it, but I'm probably looking at the wrong panels (kmix)Sep 13 13:43
DaemonFCI was stumbling around trying to use Pulseaudio at first because it's what I knew from GNOME distributionsSep 13 13:43
DaemonFCdmix works better because it's mandatorySep 13 13:44
DaemonFCstupid misbehaving applications can't circumvent it like they do with PulseaudioSep 13 13:44
schestowitzFacebook releases real-time Web server tech as open source http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/318113/Sep 13 13:44
DaemonFCthey need to figure out a way to get that behavior from PulseaudioSep 13 13:45
DaemonFCmandatory, nothing can bypass it, tough shit, it's here, deal with itSep 13 13:45
DaemonFC:)Sep 13 13:45
DaemonFCit would solve a lot of problem apps like VLCSep 13 13:45
trmancopulseaudioSep 13 13:46
trmancodon't need that anymoreSep 13 13:46
trmancoalsa is enoughSep 13 13:46
DaemonFCinstead, Pulseaudio is a nightmare and Ubuntu is trying to tell the USERS, and not the APPLICATIONS, it's here, deal with it, tough shitSep 13 13:46
trmancofrom what I've seen, pulseaudio is a waste of cpu cyclesSep 13 13:46
DaemonFCit really is too heavy even when it does work, you're rightSep 13 13:46
DaemonFCbut it would be nice if it worked all the time if they insist on forcing it on youSep 13 13:47
trmancoin my case it worked all the timeSep 13 13:47
trmancobut it was a waste of cpu cyclesSep 13 13:47
schestowitzCool\!Sep 13 13:47
schestowitzI've just solved itSep 13 13:47
schestowitzMy mixer settings was incorrectSep 13 13:47
DaemonFCtrmanco: You get what I mean thoughSep 13 13:47
DaemonFCright now they force it on you and it doesn't even always workSep 13 13:47
trmancoyes :)Sep 13 13:47
DaemonFCalso, despite their claims of a low latency (glitch free) option....that's not the caseSep 13 13:48
schestowitzI needed to amplify by defaultSep 13 13:48
DaemonFCit still adds more latency than dmixSep 13 13:48
schestowitzOtherwise I need to stick the mic in my mouth, which I hate doingSep 13 13:48
DaemonFCand it still glitchesSep 13 13:49
DaemonFCmostly input glitches in that mode thoughSep 13 13:49
DaemonFClike that episode of Stargate SG-1 where one of the teams was dialing from the planet about to be consumed by a black holeSep 13 13:50
DaemonFCand the gate would open and immediately shut down (from our perspectiveSep 13 13:50
DaemonFCI think someone was using PulseaudioSep 13 13:51
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trmancohttp://identi.ca/notice/9956433Sep 13 13:51
DaemonFCit dies in the background and kills your input after a couple seconds but from your perspective, the application continues to workSep 13 13:52
DaemonFCB-)Sep 13 13:52
DaemonFCschestowitz: The Pirate Bay's tracker is deadSep 13 13:57
trmancohttp://hci.stanford.edu/winograd/shrdlu/Sep 13 13:59
oiaohmDaemonFC: O yes they can by pass dmix.Sep 13 14:00
oiaohmJust don't do it as often.Sep 13 14:00
oiaohmThe mixer should be done as either a kernel module or a userspace kernel module so there is no door past it.Sep 13 14:00
DaemonFCoiaohm: Which is what Windows doesSep 13 14:01
DaemonFCyou can ask Windows to turn it off, but it doesn't have to do itSep 13 14:01
oiaohmThinking the mixer in alsa is a char device.Sep 13 14:01
oiaohmwhen provided by hardware.Sep 13 14:01
oiaohmwith cuse it may be possiable to do it in software.Sep 13 14:02
DaemonFCof course Microsoft did it for DRM support but it -also- happens to work better for the user in many cases that waySep 13 14:02
oiaohmIts one of the rare things MS got right.Sep 13 14:02
DaemonFCthey only do the right thing when it so happens to be a prerequisite for DRMSep 13 14:03
DaemonFC:PSep 13 14:03
MinceRwhere is it in winblows?Sep 13 14:03
oiaohmKernel mode setting was another.Sep 13 14:03
MinceRkernel?Sep 13 14:03
oiaohmuserspace kernel module MinceRSep 13 14:03
MinceRsurprisingSep 13 14:03
DaemonFCMinceR: user-mode kernel moduleSep 13 14:03
DaemonFCyes, what he said :PSep 13 14:03
MinceRconsidering their obsession with doing everything in the kernel, in kernel modeSep 13 14:03
MinceRbecause it's zomg performanceSep 13 14:04
DaemonFCMinceR: They don't, actuallySep 13 14:04
DaemonFCmany of the systems have been moved outside of the kernelSep 13 14:04
oiaohmWindows is a evil mix of things.Sep 13 14:04
DaemonFCas of VistaSep 13 14:04
DaemonFCand more in Windows 7Sep 13 14:04
oiaohmSome are right some are wrong.Sep 13 14:04
MinceRwell, that's what they did with the gui in nt4 or soSep 13 14:04
MinceRand left it that way :>Sep 13 14:04
oiaohmnt4 did have kernel mode setting.Sep 13 14:04
MinceRnt4 had kernel mode guiSep 13 14:04
DaemonFCMinceR: They've been in a flying rush to get as many things as possible out of the kernelSep 13 14:04
MinceRand funnily enough it was still slower than xSep 13 14:05
oiaohmSomething that Linux has been lacking and driving us up all.Sep 13 14:05
DaemonFCand they've implemented a patch protection schemeSep 13 14:05
DaemonFCon 64-bit Windows that isSep 13 14:05
MinceRpatch protection?Sep 13 14:05
oiaohmThere is a blance between kernel mode and user mode.Sep 13 14:05
DaemonFCthat's why 64-bit Windows crashes so much less, MinceRSep 13 14:05
oiaohmKey advantage to kernel mode is duplication prevention.Sep 13 14:05
MinceRwhat's patch protection?Sep 13 14:05
DaemonFCbad applications that try to fuck up the kernel (including, in the past, antivirus apps) can't do itSep 13 14:05
oiaohmLike you don't want 2 things setting the mode on a video card independ to each other.Sep 13 14:05
MinceRoh, so it's memory protectionSep 13 14:06
MinceRlike what everything does since the i386Sep 13 14:06
oiaohmPath protection is different.Sep 13 14:06
DaemonFCMinceR: It stops an application from altering the kernel's image in memorySep 13 14:06
DaemonFCyeahSep 13 14:06
schestowitzRichard Stallman finds a home < http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10351419-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad >Sep 13 14:06
schestowitz"GPL house"Sep 13 14:06
DaemonFCit's different from memory protectionSep 13 14:06
oiaohmIts more like LSM style memory limations MinceRSep 13 14:06
MinceRhur hur hurSep 13 14:06
schestowitzStallman is like Erdos or Shostakovich, leaving without many belongingsSep 13 14:06
DaemonFCWindows has always had that in NTSep 13 14:06
DaemonFCand mostly in Windows 9xSep 13 14:07
MinceRDaemonFC: so it's reinvention of memory protection under a different name?Sep 13 14:07
DaemonFCthe first MB was not protected in Windows 9xSep 13 14:07
DaemonFCMinceR: NoSep 13 14:07
oiaohmWindows 9x did not have any memory protectionSep 13 14:07
DaemonFCoiaohm: It didSep 13 14:07
oiaohmIt was cheese.Sep 13 14:07
DaemonFCbut that first megabyte was not protectedSep 13 14:07
oiaohmYou could access anywhere you liked.Sep 13 14:07
DaemonFCDOS legacySep 13 14:07
oiaohm9x could be switched into flat memory mode.Sep 13 14:08
oiaohmYes nice little screw up there.Sep 13 14:08
DaemonFCthat's why users were encouraged to NOT run any DOS drivers in their config.sys/Autoexec.batSep 13 14:08
DaemonFCif a driver crashed in the first megabyte of memory, it would bring down Windows tooSep 13 14:08
oiaohmNote from a windows 32 bit aplication in win 9x you could switch to flat mode and back.Sep 13 14:09
DaemonFCthat's why you should have been using two boot modesSep 13 14:09
oiaohmDue to protect mode limits not being set right.Sep 13 14:09
schestowitzMinceR: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10350581-16.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheOpenRoad Asay in luvv?Sep 13 14:09
oiaohmFlat mode removes address maping DaemonFCSep 13 14:09
DaemonFCit was possible to swap out the config.sys and autoexec.bat, reboot into DOS, and then swap them out with blanks again for WindowsSep 13 14:09
MinceRschestowitz: goes without sayingSep 13 14:09
oiaohmAnd displays all memory as flat access.Sep 13 14:09
oiaohmNo permission limitations at all.Sep 13 14:10
DaemonFCor just make a DOS boot floppy for your old gamesSep 13 14:10
DaemonFCeasiest way to be rid of a lot of Windows 9x crashesSep 13 14:10
MinceRschestowitz: apparently asay is on love with anyone who rips off the FLOSS communitySep 13 14:10
MinceRs/on/in/Sep 13 14:10
schestowitzMinceR: but they are SOOOOOOOOOO PoliteSep 13 14:11
schestowitz[just as a turncoat must be]Sep 13 14:11
MinceRyes, and sooooooooo richSep 13 14:11
schestowitzWell, guess who pays for lunch?Sep 13 14:11
MinceRand in The Cult of The Almighty Money, that's all that mattersSep 13 14:11
schestowitzThe worth of destroying FOSS is sssssssssssssssssssoooooooooo highSep 13 14:11
MinceRpoliteness is just a plusSep 13 14:13
oiaohmWhat is worring MS is that some of FOSS are now starting to play there games back on them.Sep 13 14:13
oiaohmFSF is not what you call playing nice.Sep 13 14:13
oiaohmMS has not played nice now they have war.Sep 13 14:14
MinceRdepends on to whomSep 13 14:15
oiaohmAttempting to destroy FOSS ms is attacking the very companies that ship there product in large numbers.Sep 13 14:16
MinceROEMs?Sep 13 14:17
MinceRthey seem to be ok with this?Sep 13 14:17
MinceRs/.$//Sep 13 14:17
schestowitzoiaohm: Tech DataSep 13 14:18
schestowitzDell alsSep 13 14:18
schestowitz*alsoSep 13 14:18
schestowitzSee the responses from Dell in the past 2 years since May 2007 patent attackSep 13 14:19
MinceRif they weren't, one of them would tell m$ to stuff itSep 13 14:19
schestowitzH-P is still a shill for MicrosoftSep 13 14:19
schestowitzDell is more fed up than HPSep 13 14:19
schestowitzMicrosoft harms sales for their own 'partners'Sep 13 14:19
schestowitzGreg K-H was funny.... telling off Microsoft.Sep 13 14:20
MinceRhe still said that everyone is doing what m$ didSep 13 14:20
MinceRhe's still an m$ shill, just trying to save face.Sep 13 14:20
schestowitzHe gets the dollars from NOVLSep 13 14:20
MinceRhe shouldn't be allowed to interfere with Linux developmentSep 13 14:21
schestowitzShow me the pretties (NOVL:NASDAQ:GREG-K-H)Sep 13 14:21
schestowitzHe influences Linus alsoSep 13 14:21
schestowitzThe whole Microsoft-sympathetic BSSep 13 14:21
oiaohmGreg K-H might work for novel but it does not really care about MS.Sep 13 14:21
MinceRwell, i don't see any ubuntu offers at dell right nowSep 13 14:22
schestowitzIf LF was shut down, maybe Novell would hire Linus :-pSep 13 14:22
MinceRmaybe they've just hidden them even moreSep 13 14:22
oiaohmDell has opened up more countries with ubuntu shipping.Sep 13 14:22
oiaohmNot really more items MinceR.Sep 13 14:22
MinceRwell, there are 2 models shipped with ubuntu nowSep 13 14:23
MinceRboth are miniSep 13 14:23
MinceRso dell has gotten worseSep 13 14:23
schestowitzMaybe they hid them more because Ballmer wants trolls to "fly [his] pretties"Sep 13 14:23
MinceRmaybe they just don't careSep 13 14:23
oiaohmLF was created to pay linus.Sep 13 14:23
schestowitzYEsSep 13 14:23
MinceRthey wanted cheaper windblows and they got itSep 13 14:23
schestowitzSort ofSep 13 14:23
schestowitzOSDL maybeSep 13 14:23
schestowitzBut also legal protectionSep 13 14:23
oiaohmBecause without out it the bidding war for Linus was insane.Sep 13 14:23
MinceRso they can put cheaper winblows on their cheap crap machines that break from normal use.Sep 13 14:23
schestowitzoiaohm: did you listen to that part of the audicast?Sep 13 14:23
schestowitzoiaohm: did you listen to that part of the audiocast?Sep 13 14:24
oiaohmYep schestowitzSep 13 14:24
schestowitzWhere Zemlin says this?Sep 13 14:24
MinceRoh, and they still pay for the patents linux doesn't infringe on, don't they?Sep 13 14:24
oiaohmI was around when LF was created.Sep 13 14:24
oiaohmZemlin is nice about it.Sep 13 14:24
oiaohmHP IBM Orcale all offered Linus insane ammounts.Sep 13 14:24
schestowitzHe's not badSep 13 14:24
schestowitzIncreasingly he criticises the VoleSep 13 14:24
schestowitzHe would not say "repsect Microsoft" anymoreSep 13 14:25
schestowitzNot after this recent incidentSep 13 14:25
schestowitzBut he sat down with Geisha Sam Ramji a while agoSep 13 14:25
schestowitzThe whole "pose for the cameras" gigSep 13 14:25
oiaohmZemlin is the diplomate.Sep 13 14:25
MinceRso i don't think dell is an example of a linux promoter, not at all.Sep 13 14:25
oiaohmTo keep everything in state of kinda blance.Sep 13 14:25
oiaohmDell has spent a lot of money on Linux tech MinceRSep 13 14:26
schestowitzoiaohm: do not they 'pool' the wageSep 13 14:26
schestowitzBut it pays for other things tooSep 13 14:26
schestowitzLike ASF or Mozilla FOundationSep 13 14:26
MinceRoiaohm: yet they participate in the patent racket, advertise winblows and don't offer linux on any of their machines except 2 modelsSep 13 14:26
schestowitzDell made billions from Linux, or hundreds of millionsSep 13 14:26
schestowitzServers mostlySep 13 14:26
schestowitzIncluding Google'sSep 13 14:26
MinceRoiaohm: i suspect that "lot of money" was less than the money they saved on winblows licensing by threatening m$ a little.Sep 13 14:27
oiaohmNote dell gets payed to advertise windows.Sep 13 14:27
oiaohmyes very insane.Sep 13 14:27
MinceRyou can easily build a server without any OEM sticking their dirty hands in it.Sep 13 14:27
MinceRand you can put any OS on it.Sep 13 14:27
MinceRnot the same thing with laptops.Sep 13 14:27
schestowitzThis is kinda ghey. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdP5yFoEBmQ&feature=relatedSep 13 14:29
MinceRthey don't offer linux on any desktopsSep 13 14:29
schestowitzNovell spreads the "dorky" stereotype about LinuxSep 13 14:29
schestowitzMinceR: they should sell open PCsSep 13 14:30
schestowitzNo OSSep 13 14:30
schestowitzOS should be paid-for addonSep 13 14:30
schestowitzProbelma nadaSep 13 14:30
schestowitzIssue solvedSep 13 14:30
MinceRthey should, but they don'tSep 13 14:30
schestowitzMake everyone happySep 13 14:30
MinceRalso, they shouldn't advertise winblows on every pageSep 13 14:30
schestowitzEVen BSD usersSep 13 14:30
schestowitzBut it's $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ !!!!!!!!!!1Sep 13 14:30
MinceRand they shouldn't advertise laptops that break from normal use as "RoadReady"Sep 13 14:31
MinceRand as withstanding "even the most extreme circumstances"Sep 13 14:31
Diablo-D3hehSep 13 14:32
Diablo-D3the only shit proof laptops I know of are the toughest toughbooksSep 13 14:32
MinceRit doesn't have to be shitproof to withstand having the damn lid opened and closed twice every daySep 13 14:33
MinceRit just has to be not made of shitSep 13 14:33
Diablo-D3wellSep 13 14:33
Diablo-D3no acers or compaq/hps thenSep 13 14:33
Diablo-D3dell isnt as bad as it used to be thereSep 13 14:33
MinceRwell, i got a thinkpad instead.Sep 13 14:33
Diablo-D3non-thinkpad lenovos still suckSep 13 14:33
Diablo-D3thinkpads are still okaySep 13 14:33
MinceRi hope this one will persist.Sep 13 14:33
Diablo-D3macs are still... meeeeehSep 13 14:33
MinceRmacs are dangerousSep 13 14:34
MinceRcatching on fire, melting the "magsafe" connector, etc.Sep 13 14:34
Diablo-D3I dont have one of thoseSep 13 14:34
Diablo-D3I still have a powerbookSep 13 14:34
Diablo-D3the worst that has gone wrong is the LCD diedSep 13 14:34
MinceRor just a little smokeSep 13 14:34
Diablo-D3oh, and the dc in board finally wentSep 13 14:34
MinceRafter how much time?Sep 13 14:35
Diablo-D3so I replaced that tooSep 13 14:35
Diablo-D3its like 4+ years oldSep 13 14:35
MinceRthen that isn't so badSep 13 14:35
Diablo-D3and it's previous owner wasnt kind to itSep 13 14:35
Diablo-D3I replaced the HD when I got it because I wanted something biggerSep 13 14:35
Diablo-D3and I also maxed out the memorySep 13 14:35
schestowitzI heard the USian army is looking into the power of the Macs.... they heard about the explosive power, which they intend to harness to SpreadDemocracy();Sep 13 14:36
MinceRlolSep 13 14:36
MinceRwell, iGrenades work better for thatSep 13 14:36
Diablo-D3MinceR: sadlySep 13 14:36
Diablo-D3maxing out memory means 2 gigsSep 13 14:36
MinceRalso known as hypePhonesSep 13 14:36
schestowitzMinceR: iOn bombsSep 13 14:36
MinceRiTimeBombsSep 13 14:36
Diablo-D3MinceR: dudeSep 13 14:37
Diablo-D3you could just say TimeBomb normallySep 13 14:37
Diablo-D3to riff off the TimeMachine productSep 13 14:37
oiaohmMost annoying thing with dells at moment to get Linux workstations they are phone up and ask.Sep 13 14:38
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/11/microsoft_open_source_group_windows_server/ "Ramji noted Microsoft is actively recruiting a replacement to lead the overall platform and server strategy. The OSTC itself will continue to be directed by Tom Hanrahan, formerly the Linux Foundation's director of engineering, under Laing."Sep 13 14:38
schestowitzvia Microsoft lackey Clarke BTWSep 13 14:38
Diablo-D3oiaohm: um, I can order dells with linux online on most of their modelsSep 13 14:39
schestowitzDepends where.Sep 13 14:39
schestowitzNot in BudapestSep 13 14:39
oiaohmOk what country Diablo-D3Sep 13 14:39
oiaohmAustralia is a pain in ass.Sep 13 14:39
schestowitzIn the UK it's not easy eitherSep 13 14:39
MinceRDiablo-D3: trueSep 13 14:39
schestowitzUK is more of a Microsoft 'shill' than the US, I reckonSep 13 14:39
Diablo-D3oiaohm: in the USSep 13 14:40
MinceRDiablo-D3: they don't offer linux in hungarySep 13 14:40
Diablo-D3oiaohm: australia doesnt exist, imoSep 13 14:40
MinceRand the web interface shows what i said earlierSep 13 14:40
Diablo-D3there simply cant be a country that is both worse than the US and the UK in all respective categories and isn't the third worldSep 13 14:41
schestowitzThe press here glorifieis some white-collar felons like they are to be lauded as heroes.Sep 13 14:41
schestowitzDiablo-D3: see what happens in hospitals hereSep 13 14:41
schestowitzDigitally, it's third-worldSep 13 14:41
schestowitzConficker attacks left and rightSep 13 14:41
schestowitzNot even SolarisSep 13 14:41
oiaohmAustralian hospitals are part windows part solaris.Sep 13 14:42
schestowitzI sort of hope they get whooped some more before realising they must abandon Microsoft from everything except toying environmentSep 13 14:42
Diablo-D3oiaohm: lameSep 13 14:42
oiaohmAll key medical data stored on solarias.Sep 13 14:42
Diablo-D3although hospitals here run windowsSep 13 14:42
Diablo-D3the frontend shit runs on windowsSep 13 14:42
schestowitzWindows is good... to teach kids at the schools to toy with something.. maybe to teach they about cracking.Sep 13 14:42
oiaohmWindows is not trusted for it.Sep 13 14:42
schestowitz*themSep 13 14:42
oiaohmNot after 1995 we the PM of this country was almost killed by hacked system.Sep 13 14:43
oiaohmwe/whenSep 13 14:43
schestowitzHere people dieSep 13 14:43
schestowitzMany hospitals go downSep 13 14:43
schestowitzAlmost every month the Reg has a reportSep 13 14:43
oiaohmThis was a targeted attack schestowitzSep 13 14:43
oiaohmHacker was selective.Sep 13 14:43
schestowitzHospitals not servicing because of WIndows virusesSep 13 14:44
schestowitzUsually COnfickerSep 13 14:44
schestowitzoiaohm: Windows or PM? :-DSep 13 14:44
oiaohmPMSep 13 14:44
oiaohmHacker was trying to kill him over introducing anti hacking laws.Sep 13 14:44
oiaohmThat meant if caught 15 years jail.Sep 13 14:45
oiaohmSo attacker got the idea might as well kill the PM.Sep 13 14:45
DaemonFCoiaohm: You wouldn't happen to know how to get K3B to use an external Vorbis encoder would you?Sep 13 14:47
oiaohmsettings ->configure k3b programs DaemonFCSep 13 14:48
oiaohmYes its in there.Sep 13 14:48
DaemonFCyeah, but what are the switches I need to pass to it?Sep 13 14:48
oiaohmIt reaches out to external applciations to do it.Sep 13 14:48
DaemonFCit keeps saying it ripped the CD but it's not creating any Vorbis filesSep 13 14:49
oiaohmHmmSep 13 14:50
DaemonFCI've been guessing at the command lineSep 13 14:50
oiaohmI have never had to debug that.Sep 13 14:50
DaemonFCaotuv uses the same commands as the official Vorbis encoderSep 13 14:50
DaemonFCas far as I knowSep 13 14:50
MinceRGrip can use external encoders :)Sep 13 14:51
DaemonFCnot if I don't know what to feed it as the encoding parametersSep 13 14:51
DaemonFCso I'm just ripping to FLAC and dragging them onto OggDropXPSep 13 14:53
schestowitzIs grip still mainstream? I used it in 2004Sep 13 14:54
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, I was jokingSep 13 14:54
schestowitzWIndows does, however, create many jobs... for crackers and repair shopsSep 13 14:54
DaemonFCPackage grip is not available, but is referred to by another package.This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source.Sep 13 14:54
DaemonFC:)Sep 13 14:55
DaemonFCat least there's WineSep 13 14:55
MinceRdunnoSep 13 14:55
DaemonFCit's easier to use Window programs in Wine to get what you want done than it is to use Linux programs sometimesSep 13 14:55
DaemonFC*WindowsSep 13 14:55
DaemonFCit shouldn't be easier, but if it's not in the repository or there's no documentation, sometimes it's just easier to use a Windows programSep 13 14:56
schestowitzA lot of people foolishly forget that many computer users can't afford new computer or Windows !!!! http://www.techworld.com.au/blog/talkingtech/2009/09/can_linuxs_market_share_be_adversely_affected_by_the_competitionSep 13 14:56
schestowitzThe Microsoft brainwash is workingSep 13 14:56
schestowitzThe Slog...Sep 13 14:56
MinceRi just realized Linux Libre existsSep 13 14:57
MinceRstill, they give no list of what's removedSep 13 14:57
DaemonFCprobably the usualSep 13 14:58
DaemonFCall the drivers, most of the firmwareSep 13 14:58
DaemonFCpossibly GLXSep 13 14:58
DaemonFCmost of the codecsSep 13 14:58
DaemonFCwallpaper with a license that slighted themSep 13 14:58
MinceRLinux Libre is a kernelSep 13 14:59
DaemonFCoh, then drivers and firmwareSep 13 14:59
MinceRright, but which drivers?Sep 13 14:59
DaemonFC80% of themSep 13 14:59
DaemonFCpick someSep 13 14:59
DaemonFC:)Sep 13 14:59
MinceRwhat i'm more interested in is the recent m$ codeSep 13 14:59
DaemonFClike I said, they nitpick until there's no point in even trying to run their softwareSep 13 15:00
DaemonFCMinceR: Just remove those then?Sep 13 15:00
DaemonFCthey're probably not even built by defaultSep 13 15:00
MinceRi just wondered what really isn't strictly free in thereSep 13 15:00
DaemonFCand they'd be modules if they wereSep 13 15:00
DaemonFCso unless you were running Linux in Hyper-V, they wouldn't even be loadedSep 13 15:01
DaemonFCthey're GPL 2 and peer reviewed by the kernel developers anyhowSep 13 15:01
DaemonFCso I don't believe there could be anything malicious in themSep 13 15:01
DaemonFCconsidering the source, it would be plastered all over the place if there was anything bad in themSep 13 15:02
DaemonFCand you know everyone is probably looking for that kind of stuffSep 13 15:02
DaemonFCit would also be hard for Microsoft to donate the code then claim it infringes or somethingSep 13 15:02
DaemonFCI think it's reasonably safeSep 13 15:02
DaemonFCit would be like giving someone your watch in front of 100 witnesses then claiming to the police that they stole your watchSep 13 15:03
DaemonFCit's obvious that they're not going to sue over that and it's only there to make Linux run better as a virtualized guest on their virtual machine softwareSep 13 15:04
DaemonFCnobody else even has a reason to care if it's thereSep 13 15:04
oiaohmYou miss the big one.Sep 13 15:06
MinceRoh, i've found itSep 13 15:06
MinceRthey've written a script package called deblobSep 13 15:06
oiaohmMS though they could dump Hyper-V on Linux kernel and not maintaine it.Sep 13 15:06
oiaohmMaintaining it locks up developer time.Sep 13 15:07
MinceRi thought everything that hyper-v module(?) does was already done for xen and/or kvm.Sep 13 15:07
MinceRso it's just reinventing the wheelSep 13 15:07
DaemonFCpretty muchSep 13 15:07
oiaohmCore of hyper-v design comes from Xen.Sep 13 15:07
MinceRso there was no technical reason to accept the patchSep 13 15:07
MinceRwhich shows how much the leadership of the linux project was corruptedSep 13 15:08
oiaohmThere was a patent reason to accept the patch.Sep 13 15:08
MinceRanyone else coming up with such a patch would have been turned away.Sep 13 15:08
DaemonFCMinceR: No more reason to refuse it than any other patchSep 13 15:08
MinceRm$ holds patents on it?Sep 13 15:08
DaemonFCmaybeSep 13 15:08
oiaohmMS to submit patch had to sign of the genernal patent aggreements over the area.Sep 13 15:08
MinceRicSep 13 15:08
DaemonFCbut since it's from them, they'll have a hard time saying it wasn't licensedSep 13 15:08
oiaohmso blocking MS means to use patents in that area against the Linux kernel.Sep 13 15:08
DaemonFCone less headacheSep 13 15:09
MinceRoiaohm: does it apply to the entire kernel or only the code supplied by m$?Sep 13 15:09
oiaohmMS cannot attack kvm either.Sep 13 15:09
oiaohmentire kernel MinceRSep 13 15:09
MinceRicSep 13 15:09
MinceRso we weren't screwed as much as i thought we were. :)Sep 13 15:09
oiaohmAnd for it to stand the code had to be include in 1 release.Sep 13 15:09
oiaohmso no we were not screwed.Sep 13 15:10
oiaohmIf anyone was getting screwed it was MS.Sep 13 15:10
MinceR:)Sep 13 15:10
DaemonFCMinceR: It's like instead of being stupid and arguing about it for no reason, they took the 3 drivers and effectively removed any grounds Microsoft had to sue them over for implementing it themselvesSep 13 15:10
DaemonFCso it was the right thing to doSep 13 15:10
DaemonFCif it bothers you that it's there, remove it, but it's benignSep 13 15:10
oiaohmAlso means from now on MS will have to provide maintainers to keep the driver in kernel.Sep 13 15:11
DaemonFCyepSep 13 15:11
DaemonFCMinceR: Would you rather that the Linux developers cut off their nose to spite their face?Sep 13 15:11
MinceRnopeSep 13 15:11
oiaohmThey though they could dumb it on novell as well.Sep 13 15:11
DaemonFCcause that would be the result of refusing the contributionSep 13 15:11
oiaohmKernel rules don't allow that.Sep 13 15:12
MinceRthey could even bring up the debate of whether it's necessary now and remove the code :>Sep 13 15:12
DaemonFCthey have Microsoft willing to play their game by their rulesSep 13 15:12
MinceRand keep the patent licenseSep 13 15:12
oiaohmYou cannot refuse code to a linux kernel without grounds.Sep 13 15:12
DaemonFCwhy would they refuse that?Sep 13 15:12
oiaohmNon maintained is grounds to remove.Sep 13 15:12
oiaohmOr some how defective.Sep 13 15:12
MinceRDaemonFC: the only point i can see in accepting this is gaining the patent license.Sep 13 15:12
oiaohmNote MS HV drivers are only in the staging tree.Sep 13 15:13
DaemonFCMinceR: Which is a good reason to accept itSep 13 15:13
MinceRindeed.Sep 13 15:13
oiaohmNot permintent drivers.Sep 13 15:13
MinceRi thought it was included in 2.6.31 or soSep 13 15:13
DaemonFCnoSep 13 15:13
DaemonFCand building staging drivers taints the kernelSep 13 15:13
DaemonFCso if you build them right now, it invalidates all your kerneloops submissionsSep 13 15:13
oiaohmHV will be in 2.6.32 And if patches don't come in removed by 2.6.33Sep 13 15:14
DaemonFCit sets "taint_crap"Sep 13 15:14
DaemonFC:)Sep 13 15:14
MinceR:)Sep 13 15:14
oiaohmSo MS will have to work on it.Sep 13 15:14
oiaohmAs long as it remains in the staging tree MS will have to maintain it.Sep 13 15:14
MinceRwhat kind of taint do nvidia proprietary drivers set?Sep 13 15:14
Diablo-D3the tainty kindSep 13 15:14
oiaohmI guess you can now see how it was not a free lunch MinceRSep 13 15:15
MinceRindeedSep 13 15:15
oiaohmLinus set down the ground rules a long time ago.Sep 13 15:15
DaemonFCMinceR: it sets taint_nvidiaSep 13 15:16
oiaohmMS drivers obeyed Linus rules.Sep 13 15:16
MinceRicSep 13 15:16
DaemonFCMinceR: It basically invalidates all your video related crash reportsSep 13 15:16
DaemonFCthey still pay attention to the restSep 13 15:16
MinceRicSep 13 15:16
DaemonFCas long as none of those are taintedSep 13 15:16
oiaohmProblem MS has the more it deals with the Linux kernel the less patent attack options they will have.Sep 13 15:16
DaemonFCMinceR: taint_crap invalidates ALL your reportsSep 13 15:16
DaemonFC:DSep 13 15:17
MinceR:)Sep 13 15:17
oiaohmEmbrance and Extend Linux world has learnt it well.Sep 13 15:17
DaemonFCI've been told to go ahead and report video crashes anyway, even though I use NvidiaSep 13 15:17
DaemonFCcause if lots of other people have the same kind of problem, the data could still be useful as a part of the group of crash reportsSep 13 15:18
DaemonFCbut if only people that use Nvidia report them, obviously the kernel developers have no reason to careSep 13 15:18
DaemonFCnot their driverSep 13 15:18
DaemonFCyou need to report the issue to NvidiaSep 13 15:19
DaemonFCwho is actually quite prompt in fixing crashers and memory leaks, usuallySep 13 15:19
DaemonFCsometimes you need to use beta drivers to get the fix for the issue you reported in their current driver seriesSep 13 15:20
DaemonFCseries 185 drivers are quite stable with KWinSep 13 15:20
DaemonFCand fastSep 13 15:20
DaemonFCthe crashers were gone in 180 thoughSep 13 15:22
DaemonFCthey also used to leak memory with Compiz Fusion, that was back in the 170 and earlier drivers, Debian has 170Sep 13 15:22
DaemonFCbut Debian also doesn't come with Compiz by defaultSep 13 15:22
DaemonFCturning on Compiz in an enterprise-grade Linux distribution is not something you would want anywaySep 13 15:22
oiaohmSooner Nvidia embraced DRI2 and KMS the better.Sep 13 15:23
MinceRit still has some annoying bugsSep 13 15:23
oiaohmPeople don't know how much leagecy stuff Nvidia drivers keep around.Sep 13 15:23
DaemonFCRed Hat and Suse both include it though, which is inappropriateSep 13 15:23
DaemonFCespecially where it was at when they started putting it inSep 13 15:23
oiaohmBecause removing them Nvidia drivers would fail.Sep 13 15:23
DaemonFCmeh, it works well enoughSep 13 15:24
DaemonFCcertainly better than any hardware which has free/open driversSep 13 15:24
DaemonFCI doubt you'll see any Intel Extreme(ly bad) graphics chipsets flying past my Nvidia cardSep 13 15:25
oiaohmIssue here is a ATI drivers are slowly ending as closed source.Sep 13 15:26
oiaohmKMS and DRI2 provides a lot of stablitity advantages.Sep 13 15:26
DaemonFCyeah, but the open source drivers will never perform as well as the Nvidia driversSep 13 15:27
DaemonFCcertainly no time soonSep 13 15:27
DaemonFCthe only way I'd buy an ATI card is if Nvidia stopped maintaining drivers for theirsSep 13 15:28
DaemonFCit's not a free/not free issue for me, it's which one performs betterSep 13 15:28
oiaohmAt this stage no. But long term ATI could out run Nvidias.Sep 13 15:29
DaemonFCif by some off chance the free ATI driver ever does perform well, my next card might be an ATISep 13 15:29
DaemonFCright now it's not even worth screwing around withSep 13 15:29
DaemonFCoiaohm: I doubt itSep 13 15:29
oiaohmThe galuim3d designSep 13 15:29
DaemonFCNvidia cards themselves are better hardwareSep 13 15:29
DaemonFCit's not just the driverSep 13 15:29
oiaohmReally not.Sep 13 15:29
oiaohmLot of recent bench marks show ATI and Nvidia hardware are basically equal on performance.Sep 13 15:30
oiaohmits if driver allows you to extract the performance or not.Sep 13 15:30
DaemonFCATI is basically the second rate vendor and just sells all their stuff cheaperSep 13 15:30
DaemonFCif it was the same price as Nvidia, nobody would buy itSep 13 15:30
oiaohmNot exactly true.Sep 13 15:31
DaemonFCeven in budget hardware, I'd choose NvidiaSep 13 15:31
oiaohmATI does out perform Nvidia for particuler rendering operations.Sep 13 15:31
DaemonFCthey outperform ATI in every class of cardSep 13 15:31
oiaohmusing both GPU's is required to get max performace.Sep 13 15:31
oiaohmATI and Nvidia both have weakness.Sep 13 15:31
oiaohmNvidia has a color blance issue they have never managed to fix.Sep 13 15:32
oiaohmIt was in the TNT2 card and it still in the latest release.Sep 13 15:33
DaemonFCNvidia is also the only one that supports the entire OpenGL spec in their driverSep 13 15:34
DaemonFCATI still crashes if you run glxinfoSep 13 15:34
oiaohmDriver issueSep 13 15:34
oiaohmNot hardware.Sep 13 15:34
oiaohmATI has for years produced crappy Linux drivers and only half decent drivers for windows.Sep 13 15:35
oiaohmSo basically crippling there hardware with poor drivers.Sep 13 15:35
oiaohmAlso ATI recently got 6 monitor out working off a single card.Sep 13 15:36
oiaohmWithout issues.Sep 13 15:36
DaemonFCthat's my pointSep 13 15:36
DaemonFCwithout a good driver, the hardware doesn't matter anywaySep 13 15:36
oiaohmGaluim3d project combinds the driver designers from VIA intel and ATI.Sep 13 15:36
oiaohmLong term goal of Galuim3d is also to replace the windows direct x drivers with it.Sep 13 15:37
DaemonFChmmmSep 13 15:39
oiaohmvmware ideaSep 13 15:39
DaemonFCI've had the system up for 1 day 10 hours, using 821 megs of RAMSep 13 15:39
oiaohmThey want a unified graphical system under all 3d rendering system.Sep 13 15:39
DaemonFCthat's with Opera running and taking 169 itselfSep 13 15:39
oiaohmLinux systems are quite light.Sep 13 15:40
DaemonFCKDE 4.3 isn't leaking RAM like it used toSep 13 15:40
DaemonFCin the earlier 4.x versionsSep 13 15:40
oiaohmIt was leaking in 4.2Sep 13 15:40
DaemonFCI'm about to shoot apport-KDE thoughSep 13 15:40
DaemonFCit keeps opening multiple instances and hangingSep 13 15:40
oiaohmThey only patched 1000 leans between kde 4.2 and 4.3Sep 13 15:41
oiaohmleans/leaksSep 13 15:41
DaemonFCpurged itSep 13 15:41
DaemonFCwell, it won't be bothering me againSep 13 15:41
oiaohmSo you should see difference.Sep 13 15:41
DaemonFCVista would be sitting around 2 gigs by nowSep 13 15:41
DaemonFCWindows 7 would be around 1.5 gigsSep 13 15:41
DaemonFCthat's not counting the caching it doesSep 13 15:42
DaemonFCtalking about RAM used by applicationsSep 13 15:42
oiaohmLinux is also not counting disk caching.Sep 13 15:42
DaemonFCthe preload daemon does the same thingSep 13 15:42
DaemonFCbut it's not there by default in UbuntuSep 13 15:42
DaemonFCyou should add itSep 13 15:42
oiaohmpreload also can cause headaches.Sep 13 15:43
oiaohmI have a few bits of software that don't like it.Sep 13 15:43
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preload_(software)Sep 13 15:43
DaemonFCyou should add it if you have more than 2 gigs of RAMSep 13 15:43
DaemonFCit speeds things up a lotSep 13 15:43
DaemonFCit takes some time to learn what you use thoughSep 13 15:44
DaemonFCso the effects are not instantSep 13 15:44
DaemonFCeventually things like your file manager or web browser or music player will load almsot isntantly because they're already cachedSep 13 15:44
DaemonFCit's kind of like Superfetch in WindowsSep 13 15:44
DaemonFCMandriva uses it by defaultSep 13 15:45
oiaohmI have to fix a few bugs in it with some of the on fly and cached generate exe's.Sep 13 15:45
oiaohmBasically don't precache them ever.Sep 13 15:46
DaemonFCinstalling prelink as well helps a little bit tooSep 13 15:46
oiaohmYes I should not have a polymophic AI using x86 code on a system.Sep 13 15:46
DaemonFCdependsSep 13 15:46
DaemonFCmost users don't have that problemSep 13 15:46
DaemonFCand the performance benefits outweigh the bugs they'll never triggerSep 13 15:47
oiaohmIe I am the odd percentage.Sep 13 15:47
DaemonFCI've managed to convince most of my MSN contacts to get the Off The Record pluginSep 13 15:49
DaemonFChehSep 13 15:49
DaemonFCI try to use OTR wherever possible, especially on Yahoo and MSNSep 13 15:50
DaemonFCif Microsoft or Yahoo is logging the conversation, all they'd be storing is encrypted gibberishSep 13 15:51
oiaohmWhat encrypt is it using.Sep 13 15:59
oiaohmIts kinda key.Sep 13 15:59
DaemonFCI should test Musik Cube againSep 13 16:00
DaemonFCoiaohm: http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/Sep 13 16:00
DaemonFCPidgin, Adium, and Kopete have it nativelySep 13 16:01
DaemonFCmy favorite part is the plausible deniability featureSep 13 16:01
DaemonFCso *if* someone does break the cipher, they can create fraudulant messages that look authentic, that's actually a good thingSep 13 16:01
DaemonFCit means like, if the CIA or FBI broke it, the evidence may not be court admissibleSep 13 16:02
DaemonFCbecause the way the system works, they could have fabricated all the evidence themselvesSep 13 16:02
oiaohmNot exactly true.Sep 13 16:03
DaemonFCbut it constantly renegotiates the keys so even if they did break one, then they would only decrypt one messageSep 13 16:03
DaemonFCthat's my understanding of it anywaySep 13 16:03
DaemonFCit's funny that they call KDE a Windows alternativeSep 13 16:05
DaemonFCit actually feels more Mac like to meSep 13 16:05
DaemonFCI don't recall the Explorer interface in Windows ever working this wellSep 13 16:06
oiaohmIt a rotating aes.Sep 13 16:06
oiaohmProblem is aes has weaknesses.Sep 13 16:06
oiaohmIt will be solid for a while longer but don't expect for ever.Sep 13 16:06
oiaohmKDE and Mac have a lot in common.Sep 13 16:08
MinceRwell, gnome is more crApple-like nowSep 13 16:09
MinceRalso, kde has the k-menu at the bottom left corner ;)Sep 13 16:09
oiaohmI hated the default icon I got for the k-menu under debian.Sep 13 16:11
oiaohmsome kinda strange arrow thing.  It got quickly changed to the K and gear.Sep 13 16:11
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MinceRiirc some iconsets have that arrow thingSep 13 16:14
oiaohmhttp://www.kdenews.org/2009/09/08/third-plasma-summit-lifts-kde-desktop-higher-grounds  << KDE is just going to keep on getting betterSep 13 16:14
schestowitzAyeSep 13 16:15
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schestowitzOpera 10 is NOT Friendly to Bloggers < http://bytesandsuch.com/2009/09/opera-10-is-not-friendly-to-bloggers/ >Sep 13 16:22
schestowitzFlash: I hate you < http://briancarper.net/blog/flash-i-hate-you >Sep 13 16:27
schestowitzSuccess: Ubuntu 9.04 on Fujitsu U810 with Dual Monitors < http://www.thegeniusfiles.com/success-ubuntu-904-on-fujitsu-u810-with-dual?c=1 >Sep 13 16:28
MinceRmoral of the opera story: don't use in-line text advertising or scrolling boxesSep 13 16:32
MinceRthey're both annoying crap.Sep 13 16:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 'Recent reports have it that Linux has been infected by its first botnet. In one word: "Nah."' http://bit.ly/80u99Sep 13 16:33
DaemonFCschestowitz: Works fine for meSep 13 16:35
DaemonFCI've had way more Konqueror screwups than Opera screwupsSep 13 16:35
DaemonFCI like the way Opera displays the images in textSep 13 16:36
DaemonFCthey look more crisp than in FirefoxSep 13 16:36
DaemonFCeasier to readSep 13 16:36
DaemonFCMinceR: Moral of the story. Opera has usually been less forgiving of standards violations than FirefoxSep 13 16:37
DaemonFCDon't write your page with tools that target MSIE and you won't have a problemSep 13 16:37
DaemonFC:)Sep 13 16:37
DaemonFCthe MSIE standards violations have ultimately benefitted FirefoxSep 13 16:38
DaemonFCbecause it's the only browser other than MSIE that understands most of themSep 13 16:38
DaemonFCso when users switch to Opera and some horribly coded MSIE page breaks, they blame OperaSep 13 16:38
DaemonFCand use FirefoxSep 13 16:39
DaemonFCso the net result is that by supporting all of MSIE's violations, Firefox may as well just introduce more of their own while they're at itSep 13 16:39
DaemonFCbut this way they can take the "moral highground" and jsut be doing it "for compatibility"Sep 13 16:39
DaemonFCthey even support MSIE violations that were never widely usedSep 13 16:40
DaemonFCwhich MSIE doesn't even support anymoreSep 13 16:40
DaemonFCthe problem with the web today is that lots of people still use old WYSIWYG editors from 10 years agoSep 13 16:41
DaemonFCbecause the new version costs moneySep 13 16:41
DaemonFC'so they're still out there putting out fresh pages optimized for Microsoft Internet Explorer 4Sep 13 16:42
MinceRusing WYSIWYG editors is a problem anywaySep 13 16:43
DaemonFCI'd compare all the old versions of web page authoring tools to abandoned minefields that occasionally still claim a victimSep 13 16:43
DaemonFCMinceR: Even Microsoft Expression Web now puts out standards compliant pagesSep 13 16:44
*Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?")Sep 13 16:44
DaemonFCbut you still have people using Frontpage 98Sep 13 16:44
DaemonFCand it's not always some kook that is making some Geocities page nobody gives a shit aboutSep 13 16:45
DaemonFCthe public library here does itSep 13 16:45
DaemonFCit's embarassingSep 13 16:45
MinceRthese people don't see or know what they're doingSep 13 16:46
schestowitzMinceR: some wysiwyg may get it rightSep 13 16:46
schestowitzUsually those that K.I.S.SSep 13 16:47
MinceRwysiwyg is by definition not getting it rightSep 13 16:47
MinceRyou get all the formatting hidden from youSep 13 16:47
schestowitzYesSep 13 16:47
MinceRnot to mention stylesSep 13 16:47
schestowitzThe notion that you work by appearanceSep 13 16:47
schestowitzSame with documentsSep 13 16:47
schestowitzThrow some chars on a paperSep 13 16:47
MinceRif you need to edit a link, you get to make a lot more clicks/keypresses to get at your dataSep 13 16:47
schestowitzGood luck seeing it on other media like Web page and posterSep 13 16:47
schestowitzNo structural infoSep 13 16:47
MinceRthrow some chairs on paper?Sep 13 16:47
schestowitzMinceR: you sound like a true creature from the Ballmer householdSep 13 16:48
MinceRwysiwyg also breaks copy/paste with regards to formattingSep 13 16:48
MinceR:)Sep 13 16:48
schestowitzbrbSep 13 16:49
DaemonFCschestowitz: I'm writing a blog post to criticize our public librarySep 13 16:53
schestowitzjono uses WIndows... Ha! http://www.twit.tv/FLOSSSep 13 16:59
schestowitzblSep 13 17:07
schestowitzblSep 13 17:07
schestowitzbbl evenSep 13 17:07
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DaemonFCstill postingSep 13 17:24
DaemonFCgod, how long can this take?Sep 13 17:24
DaemonFCthere it goesSep 13 17:24
DaemonFCschestowitz: http://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/another-microsoft-horror-story-the-huntington-indiana-public-library/Sep 13 17:28
zlg(H)omer I think you should find the simpsons clip where Gates and his "boy" buy out CompuGlobalHyperMegaNet, Bill "I didnt get rich by writing a bunch of silly cheques".Sep 13 17:30
twitter1you can put it and the bar anywhere you want -> MinceR: also, kde has the k-menu at the bottom left cornerSep 13 17:37
MinceRi knowSep 13 17:37
MinceRgnome can be reconfigured tooSep 13 17:37
MinceRyet people seem to categorize them based on trivialities like thisSep 13 17:37
DaemonFCediting it again :PSep 13 17:37
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twitter1I don't know how to do things with Gnome but KDE 3.5 is trivial to configure.  Everything is a right click away.Sep 13 17:49
twitter1Gnome users might think the world is inflexible, like Windows users.Sep 13 17:49
amarsh04twitter1, I've managed to turn off "control-alt-delete" giving me the shutdown menu in one of my boxes running KDE 3.5.x... - do you remember where it's enabled?Sep 13 17:50
DaemonFCGNOME is not inflexibleSep 13 17:50
twitter1no, I don't use that key combination.Sep 13 17:51
amarsh04ok, I'll have a better look for the informationSep 13 17:52
DaemonFCschestowitz: I've always been against Windows on taxpayer-funded public terminalsSep 13 17:54
DaemonFCat least if someone buys it for themselves and their own system, it was their money and their choice to do itSep 13 17:54
DaemonFCWhen the government taxes you and builds a road, it's understood that building roads cost money, there's no getting around the fact that they cost what they do, and they are a public benefitSep 13 17:55
DaemonFCWhen the government taxes you and buys Windows, they're doing it with preference to a system that costs nothing and works better, and are creating a public liabilitySep 13 17:56
twitter1I don't shut my system down often.  The lid puts my laptops to sleep and my desktop stays on all the time.Sep 13 17:56
DaemonFCtwitter1: You have to watch out with some distributions on some hardwareSep 13 17:57
DaemonFCthey may just shut off the display and overheat the laptopSep 13 17:57
DaemonFCof course Vista does it all the time and it's almost impossible to track down what's causing itSep 13 17:57
DaemonFC:PSep 13 17:57
DaemonFCwith Vista, it's also sneakier about itSep 13 17:58
DaemonFCcause the system goes to sleep OK then wakes up randomlySep 13 17:58
DaemonFCyou could easily end up with ruined hardware when you saw it go to sleepSep 13 17:59
twitter1looked at gnome panels again.  there's a way to create "launchers" on other panels but they are subsets of the main menu.  moving panels is a matter of drag and drop, so you can change the locations easily.Sep 13 17:59
DaemonFCyeah, KDE widgets are mostly independent of panelsSep 13 17:59
DaemonFCwhich takes some getting used to, but it's nicer once you doSep 13 17:59
MinceR185756 < DaemonFC> at least if someone buys it for themselves and their own system, it was their money and their choice to do itSep 13 18:00
MinceRnot always.Sep 13 18:00
DaemonFCMinceR: You're making a choiceSep 13 18:00
DaemonFCignorance doesn't excuse you from having made itSep 13 18:00
MinceRnot being given an option doesSep 13 18:00
DaemonFCthey have an option not to buy itSep 13 18:01
DaemonFCmaybe not on a particular model of systemSep 13 18:01
MinceRsure, they have an option not to buy a laptop :>Sep 13 18:01
DaemonFCbut there are equivalent systems that they can build or buy with Linux or buy with no OS preinstalledSep 13 18:01
DaemonFCDell sells Linux laptopsSep 13 18:01
DaemonFCSystem76 sells only Linux laptopsSep 13 18:01
DaemonFCTiger Direct sells laptops with no OSSep 13 18:01
DaemonFCthat's off the top of my headSep 13 18:02
DaemonFCI'm sure there's plenty more examplesSep 13 18:02
DaemonFCthey're only a google search away from finding plenty of non-Windows optionsSep 13 18:02
MinceR190446 < DaemonFC> Dell sells Linux laptopsSep 13 18:07
MinceRsure, two mini modelsSep 13 18:07
MinceR190452 < DaemonFC> System76 sells only Linux laptopsSep 13 18:07
MinceRsure, in the usaSep 13 18:07
DaemonFCno, they sell laptopsSep 13 18:07
DaemonFCnot just netbooks, real laptopsSep 13 18:07
MinceRhttp://www.dell.com/home/laptops#subcats=&navla=51800~0~1932545&navidc=LT: Operating System&navValc=Ubuntu Linux&a=51800~0~1932545Sep 13 18:08
MinceRno, actually they don'tSep 13 18:08
DaemonFCMinceR: Yes they doSep 13 18:15
DaemonFChttp://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dncwzl1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=laptop-inspiron-1545Sep 13 18:15
DaemonFC"Ubuntu Desktop Edition version 9.04 with 30 days of Starter support"Sep 13 18:15
DaemonFCa T4200 wouldn't go into a netbookSep 13 18:16
DaemonFCor a Core 2 Duo T6600 (optional)Sep 13 18:16
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trmancoI think twitter is down againSep 13 18:27
trmancoat least its apiSep 13 18:28
trmancoI cant receive new messages :|Sep 13 18:28
DaemonFCcoolSep 13 18:29
trmancoit's back upSep 13 18:45
DaemonFCis autoscrolling in Konqueror even possible?Sep 13 18:54
MinceRDaemonFC: so to some lucky people they do, but in general they hide itSep 13 19:02
MinceRthis has always been the case, but earlier they didn't hide ubuntu so muchSep 13 19:03
DaemonFCdell.com/ubuntuSep 13 19:04
MinceRwhich isn't linked from dell.comSep 13 19:05
MinceRnor from linux.dell.comSep 13 19:05
MinceRand even dell.com/ubuntu only lists one non-mini laptopSep 13 19:06
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] "We need to repeal 12 years of vile laws attacking our liberty" http://tinyurl.com/og5f6lSep 13 19:22
*schestowitz listens to http://www.twit.tv/floss86Sep 13 19:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @thistleweb "We need to repeal 12 years of vile laws attacking our liberty" http://tinyurl.com/og5f6lSep 13 19:38
twitter1religiosity can be bad for your health http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/austria/6166852/Man-killed-in-church-after-stone-altar-falls-on-him.htmlSep 13 19:45
schestowitzZiff Davis lackeys do too much to promote the Microsoft slog these days.... http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Can-Microsoft-Windows-Mobile-65-Take-the-Smartphone-Market-by-Force-in-October-159259/Sep 13 19:45
schestowitzWho is Michelle Maisto? Never seen that name before...Sep 13 19:45
schestowitz CAFC Gives Microsoft Word Stay, and I HATE Vista! < http://www.ipwatchdog.com/2009/09/08/cafc-gives-microsoft-word-stay-and-i-hate-vista/id=5838/ >Sep 13 19:48
schestowitztwitter1: one for the log?Sep 13 19:48
schestowitzThis one comes from a big FAN of software patentsSep 13 19:48
schestowitzQuiennSep 13 19:48
schestowitzGEne quinnSep 13 19:48
*twitter1 looksSep 13 19:48
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schestowitz"Like virtually everyone that owns a Vista machine, my primary computer, which is a laptop I carry with me everywhere in my travels, has seen its better days.  This particular machine is the ripe old age of 6 months old, and as near as I can tell its better days were those days prior to the loading of Vista, which as far as I can tell is a computer virus!  Nothing operates properly on a Vista machine, not even Internet Explorer.  Oddly enough,Sep 13 19:49
schestowitzMozilla Firefox is more stable on a Vista machine than IE, go figure."Sep 13 19:49
schestowitzTyhis sure looks well for a Vista with a "7" after it. BwahahahaSep 13 19:50
schestowitzSame story all over againSep 13 19:50
schestowitzI LOVE VIstaSep 13 19:50
DaemonFCIE has been a lot worse in the pastSep 13 19:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Remind me never to say anything nice about collection societies ever again http://ur1.ca/blvtSep 13 19:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[nickballard] Red Flag To Fly Over White House http://bit.ly/2ZgzfdSep 13 19:55
twitter1It's always worse than I can imagine.Sep 13 19:56
twitter1Yesterday, I got a taste of XP and Hotmail badness.Sep 13 19:56
twitter1I tried to help a friend get pictures of their camera.  They wanted to post to Craig's List.Sep 13 19:57
twitter1and email pictures to friends.Sep 13 19:57
twitter1It was a terrible and confusing 15 step process to plug the camera in, copy the pictures (XP won't move them), and then unmount the camera.Sep 13 19:58
twitter1I imagine an average user yanks their USB devices and uses the camera to delete the copied pictures.Sep 13 19:59
schestowitzZune HD International launch hopes crushed by Microsoft, others raised http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/11/zune-hd-international-launch-hopes-crushed-by-microsoft-others/Sep 13 20:00
twitter1the "safely remove" hardware dialog requires two clicks, and is highly counter intuitive.Sep 13 20:00
twitter1In the end, Hotmail would only accept one attachment per email and the dialog to attach had no preview.Sep 13 20:01
twitter1The whole thing was unusably difficult.Sep 13 20:01
twitter1How do people use that kind of junk?Sep 13 20:01
schestowitzThe world will be better off without the ZooonSep 13 20:03
DaemonFCschestowitz: I think our library may be in violation of Title II of the Americans with Disabilities ActSep 13 20:05
schestowitzObama Praises Twitter, Google & Facebook — But Not Microsoft’s Xbox  http://searchengineland.com/obama-praises-twitter-google-facebook-but-not-microsofts-xbox-25406Sep 13 20:06
DaemonFCthey don't have software on their computers to accomodate the vision impairedSep 13 20:06
schestowitzWhat's this obsession with OBAMAA?Sep 13 20:06
DaemonFC:PSep 13 20:06
schestowitzHe's just a  spokesmanSep 13 20:06
schestowitzDaemonFC: also facilitiesSep 13 20:06
schestowitzhave them hire youSep 13 20:07
schestowitzMake them a LAMPWordPress siteSep 13 20:07
schestowitzPut KDE4+kiosk on the clustersSep 13 20:07
schestowitzAnd make them a bargain of $30/hourSep 13 20:07
schestowitzPut dark sub-glasses on and go complain about the site not being visible/accessible to you :-)Sep 13 20:08
DaemonFCI was pissed off because I went there to print something off of a site that required FlashSep 13 20:09
DaemonFCand their copy of Windows XP wouldn't let me load flashSep 13 20:10
schestowitzCheck out and se how amateur USA Today's new blogs look: http://blogs.usatoday.com/technologylive/2009/09/microsoft-flaw-could-open-pcs-to-confickerstyle-attack.htmlSep 13 20:10
schestowitzFlash if a competitor of Microsoft, so..Sep 13 20:11
schestowitzDon't get em started on Skype !1Sep 13 20:11
schestowitzMicrosoft loves attacking Skype with FUDSep 13 20:11
twitter1I'm pissed at Slashdot right now.Sep 13 20:11
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twitter1They started publishing submitter email addresses, after promising not to do so for a decade.Sep 13 20:12
twitter1Their configuration dialogs still say "required but will not be published"Sep 13 20:13
cubezzzlooks like Tesla's old idea of wireless power is making a comebackSep 13 20:13
twitter1I wonder if the submitters realized this before pushing the button.Sep 13 20:13
schestowitzHess trollSep 13 20:13
schestowitzhttp://www.linux-mag.com/id/7514Sep 13 20:13
balzacslashdot has become hard to useSep 13 20:18
cubezzzslashdot is _slow_Sep 13 20:19
cubezzzI have to turn off javascript to make it work at a decent speedSep 13 20:20
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MinceRslashdot is full of clueless trollsSep 13 20:23
MinceRi don't even bother to read the discussions anymoreSep 13 20:23
schestowitzThe Windows 0rgy : Clarke and Foley... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/07/microbite_oops/Sep 13 20:25
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schestowitzIt's funny how they hide their Microsoft biasSep 13 20:25
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schestowitzMinceR: /s/clueless/compensated/Sep 13 20:26
schestowitzWhen they ruin Slashdot, they'll move on to the next attractionSep 13 20:26
MinceRi doubt they can compensate every single one of themSep 13 20:26
MinceRother than modding them up for whoring to the m$ fanboys, of courseSep 13 20:26
schestowitzMicrosoft is already spamming Twitter with literally hundreds of accountsSep 13 20:26
schestowitzGavin Clarke idiot calls i4i nemesis. http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/09/09/microsoft_destroyed_i4i_filing/Sep 13 20:28
schestowitzI also notice that Microsoft spin from the O'Gara shillSep 13 20:28
schestowitzThey are very blatant these daysSep 13 20:28
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schestowitzS3 a vassal to Ballmer, as it turns out...... http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090908006014&newsLang=enSep 13 20:32
schestowitzDaemonFC: why does comkkast keep dropping you sporadically?Sep 13 20:32
MinceRthis S3 isn't S3 Graphics, right? :>Sep 13 20:33
schestowitzI bet it's cause you wrote that post !! :-)Sep 13 20:33
schestowitzMinceR: that's what I thoughtSep 13 20:33
DaemonFCprobablySep 13 20:33
schestowitzDaemonFC: get a refund from themSep 13 20:33
schestowitzI told my cousin 2 years ago to dump themSep 13 20:34
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schestowitz"They're too deep inside," he saidSep 13 20:34
schestowitzTHey have comkkkast mail addiesSep 13 20:34
cubezzzthere's not really a lot of choices for isps hereSep 13 20:34
cubezzzbell, rogers, 3rd party (using bell's equipment), and satelliteSep 13 20:35
schestowitzMS fan press (Motley Monkey): http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/ViewPost.aspx?bpid=255969&t=01006518834409505169 (Is Apple the new Microsoft?)Sep 13 20:35
cubezzzthe freenets are interestingSep 13 20:35
cubezzzin fact I got my dsl from toronto freenetSep 13 20:35
schestowitzcubezzz: in the Uk there's more choice depending how central the place where you live it...Sep 13 20:35
schestowitzNTL, Tiscali, BT, Virgin...Sep 13 20:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] ♻ @pvilela: RT @RuiAz: Carta aberta aos professores sobre Software Livre http://ff.im/82MJkSep 13 20:36
schestowitzKaroo abused their monopolySep 13 20:36
schestowitz1-strike law and alll......Sep 13 20:36
cubezzzI am thinking about getting a 2nd internet sourceSep 13 20:37
schestowitzMicrosoft still (Ab)uses its monopoly to charge others for APIs. http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/22368/Sep 13 20:37
schestowitzcubezzz: fllback?Sep 13 20:38
cubezzzfallback you mean? yes :)Sep 13 20:38
cubezzzit shouldn't be too hard to set up two internet sources on one computerSep 13 20:39
schestowitzWow. Nice images. http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/43929/184/Sep 13 20:40
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schestowitzcubezzz: yes, some people here do itSep 13 20:40
schestowitzHYPOCRITES: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2352583,00.aspSep 13 20:43
schestowitzMicrosoft shiller nest TG Daily lets the Enderle shill post another piece of trollery: http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/43928/98/Sep 13 20:43
schestowitzx vs y vs z... he does so many of these and Microsoft is usually the *gasp* winner... Typical EnderbloombergshillSep 13 20:44
MinceRwhy do you feed them? :)Sep 13 20:45
schestowitzCan't help itSep 13 20:47
schestowitzNeed to show..... my precious.... :-||||||||Sep 13 20:47
twitter1 Gene Quinn's log would not take my catcha.Sep 13 20:47
schestowitz"Fly my pretties... do you worst"Sep 13 20:48
twitter1tried konq then iceweaselSep 13 20:48
twitter1he should dump broken windows for free softwareSep 13 20:48
schestowitzhttp://www.mercurynews.com/businessupdate/ci_13308873 "Biz Break: Would Yahoo's Bartz have said yes to Microsoft deal? 'Sure, do you think I'm stupid'"Sep 13 20:50
schestowitzYes, you are, CaroleSep 13 20:50
schestowitzThe investors agreeSep 13 20:50
cubezzzok Enderle is criticizing Apple hereSep 13 20:51
cubezzzpeople can say want they wantSep 13 20:51
twitter1cubezzz can lie if he wants to!Sep 13 20:51
schestowitzHe does this all the timeSep 13 20:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Just responded to a blog article on:http://tinyurl.com/l7pnsf I wonder why is moderation needed? ;) #microsoft #vista #xpSep 13 20:52
schestowitzEVen when Chrome OS was announcedSep 13 20:52
schestowitzHe follows the Microsoft zeitgeistSep 13 20:52
twitter1Enderele is such an obvious troll, I even noticed.Sep 13 20:52
cubezzz...Sep 13 20:52
twitter1People pack his wrong head with talking pointsSep 13 20:53
cubezzzok, I guess I haven't read enough yet thenSep 13 20:53
schestowitzYuck: http://monty-says.blogspot.com/2009/09/codeplex-foundation-why-is-microsoft.htmlSep 13 20:53
schestowitz"I will try to explain why I think that the CodePlex Foundation is a good idea, and why I agreed to be an advisor for the Foundation."Sep 13 20:53
twitter1I've got a few links to Enderle nonsense and write ups in my poison pen collection http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/206959Sep 13 20:54
twitter1does that meat head still talk about SCO?Sep 13 20:55
schestowitzhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204584404574393102737256542.htmlSep 13 20:55
twitter1I doubt anyone will pay attention to CodePlexSep 13 20:56
cubezzzI should point out that when someone is posting their opinion (ill-informed as it may be) it's not lyingSep 13 20:56
twitter1Sourceforge, savanna and many others already dominate the space.Sep 13 20:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] quite possibly the worst tattoo ever, worse than the zune tattoo http://imgur.com/R62RX.jpgSep 13 20:57
twitter1sure, cubezz, you get a choice.  he's either malicious and dishonest or malicious and stupid.Sep 13 20:57
MinceRwell, the m$-loving "open source proponents" will jump on itSep 13 20:57
twitter1all five of them?Sep 13 20:58
cubezzzis that a BSOD tattoo? :-0Sep 13 20:58
cubezzzhis arm looks pretty redSep 13 20:58
MinceRyeah, all five of themSep 13 20:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard : old news. CTRL+ALT+Delete would rub that one off, methinks.Sep 13 20:59
cubezzzOK, I see Enderle isn't one of the good guysSep 13 20:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] What’s Yahoo’s “Plan B” For Search? http://is.gd/3eqSbSep 13 21:00
ThistleWebcubezzz: depends on the perspective lol he's one of MS's "good guys"Sep 13 21:00
schestowitzOne to ebar in mind next time broadcom screws Linux: http://gadgetress.freedomblogging.com/2009/09/11/u-verse-tv-may-get-better-performance-with-broadcom-chip/20787/Sep 13 21:00
schestowitzcubezzz: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:boycottnovell.com+enderle&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-GBSep 13 21:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @doctorow Detroit teacher needs YA ebooks for her blind students' Braille library http://tinyurl.com/kmjapn PLEASE FORWARD!Sep 13 21:01
schestowitzBartzmer is the type that admires MicrosoftSep 13 21:01
twitter1when has broadcom done anything but screw free software?Sep 13 21:01
schestowitzShe worked in proprietary s/w as a Microsoft partner/vassal, probbaly looking and billg and steveb as GodsSep 13 21:01
schestowitzNow she gives Yahoo! to them, almost free of chargeSep 13 21:01
schestowitzWHat a facreSep 13 21:02
cubezzzthe thing is non-programmers don't get the FOSS idea, and I bet almost none of these journals are programmersSep 13 21:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] So the Open Source community welcomes Codeplex? The Windows Open source community? RMS? Open source advocates? #microsoft #windows #linuxSep 13 21:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @davidgerard @doctorow Detroit teacher needs YA ebooks for her blind students' Braille library http://tinyurl.com/kmjapn PLEASE FORWARD!Sep 13 21:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Muti-Project Software Forge With PHP: InDefero: http://is.gd/3erf0Sep 13 21:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] @_Goblin I don't... it feels like a trap...Sep 13 21:06
trmancoschestowitz: what is bnc written in?Sep 13 21:06
schestowitzMicrosoft fanboy Stuart Johnston is again passing on Microsoft SlogSep 13 21:09
schestowitzhttp://www.internetnews.com/feedback.php/http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/3838396/CFO+Microsoft+Has+a+Firm+Grip+on+Netbooks.htm The headline should say "tight grip ON OEMs"Sep 13 21:09
schestowitzMicrosoft don't have a grip on subnotebooksSep 13 21:09
schestowitzIt just dumps money on OEMs to force them to use WindowsSep 13 21:09
schestowitzAnd Microsoft lies, againSep 13 21:09
schestowitzIt give US figuresSep 13 21:09
schestowitzAnd relies on ignorant readers to think it's "World"'Sep 13 21:09
schestowitzAlso neglects ARM and pricing factorSep 13 21:10
schestowitzBut.. another very typical shill job from Stuart JohnstonSep 13 21:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @trmanco I agree (although IMO it just MS looking to exploit something it can't control at the moment) Apparently we all welcome codeplex!Sep 13 21:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @trmanco according to: http://bit.ly/SNC82Sep 13 21:10
schestowitztrmanco: PerlSep 13 21:10
schestowitzwith many modulesSep 13 21:10
trmancohmmSep 13 21:10
schestowitzI had to compile loads of modules, twiceSep 13 21:10
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twitter1people start to notice that bank mergers and public looting only made problems worse http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aYdgQkXu9eBgSep 13 21:11
schestowitztwitter1: surely you kidSep 13 21:12
schestowitz"They know what they're doing"Sep 13 21:13
schestowitz"They're PROFESSIONALS"Sep 13 21:13
schestowitz--GreenspineSep 13 21:13
Chips_B_MalroyHi all,  Sure making Banks and Insurance companies that are "too big to fail" bigger is not going helpSep 13 21:13
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schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: let's make one big bank and solve it all...Sep 13 21:13
schestowitzOh, wait.Sep 13 21:13
schestowitzWorld Bank exists already :-pSep 13 21:14
schestowitzNow we just need Mother IMF to bring us sweet lovin' globalisation.Sep 13 21:14
schestowitzMeaning lower wages for all.... as /they/ want it to be, not /us/Sep 13 21:14
Chips_B_Malroyits already there, just hidden a littleSep 13 21:14
twitter1Volker and  Stiglitz recommend breaking them up.  It's a start.Sep 13 21:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @_goblin like @trmanco said, it'sa trapSep 13 21:15
Chips_B_Malroynot going happenSep 13 21:15
Chips_B_Malroyat least hereSep 13 21:15
schestowitzStandard Bank (like OIL)Sep 13 21:15
schestowitzWhy are the "wealth of the nation" so quiet?Sep 13 21:16
Chips_B_Malroysure, but has the DOJ broken up much here, since they failed to break up MSFT?  Last thing I know they broke up was Ma BellSep 13 21:16
Chips_B_Malroyin fact, they have become the advocates of the monopolysSep 13 21:17
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: I think they need to go after the Wealth of the Nation tooSep 13 21:17
schestowitzReferring to families and dynasties... those that amass obscene amounts of money (and thus power)Sep 13 21:17
schestowitzThe banks are an artifact of thoseSep 13 21:17
Chips_B_Malroyhow many times in history has that happened?Sep 13 21:18
schestowitzWHose loans become a welfare system for expansion of power over those in debt, INCLUDING nationsSep 13 21:18
Chips_B_Malroygoing afte the wealthy?Sep 13 21:18
schestowitzThe US loves borrowing favours and money to nationsSep 13 21:18
schestowitzThis way it turns them to Client StatesSep 13 21:18
Chips_B_Malroyyes, its about control, but any country would do itSep 13 21:18
schestowitzAnd the likes of Rockefellers still have a direct hand in stuff like foreign invasionSep 13 21:19
*ThistleWeb-Away has quit ("Ex-Chat")Sep 13 21:19
schestowitzIt's like the United Fruit company, only more secretiveSep 13 21:19
twitter1lol ->  Microsoft on Thursday kicked off an advertising campaign for the new Windows 7 operating system with a spot on the CW's "Vampire Diaries". ...Sep 13 21:19
Chips_B_MalroyBritain at the height of its power did much the sameSep 13 21:19
schestowitzVista 7 ads... not interestedSep 13 21:19
schestowitzAre they still exploiting children for ads?Sep 13 21:19
twitter1Vampires, not interestedSep 13 21:19
schestowitzLike they do in the UK?Sep 13 21:19
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: it doesn't make it OK, thoughSep 13 21:20
Chips_B_Malroysure, I did not say it didSep 13 21:20
twitter1Microsoft Vampires.Sep 13 21:20
schestowitzThe British Empire sort of fell (not London is a co-satellite of bother US)Sep 13 21:20
schestowitz*brotherSep 13 21:20
schestowitzBut China, Singapore, Taiwan, Korea etc. will be the next centreSep 13 21:20
Chips_B_MalroyThe USA learned from BritainSep 13 21:20
schestowitzThey are already lending TO the WestSep 13 21:20
Chips_B_Malroywas a good teacherSep 13 21:20
schestowitzMEaning they can 'loot' all the big companies that owe them at any timeSep 13 21:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @schestowitz in the space of a few minutes nobody has responded saying they like the idea. What did Monty mean when he said we accepted it?Sep 13 21:21
schestowitzBut they wait for the economies to crumble further I guess.Sep 13 21:21
schestowitz[19:55] [Notice] -BNc to #boycottnovell- [nickballard] Red Flag To Fly Over White House http://bit.ly/2ZgzfdSep 13 21:21
trmancotwitter is b0rked againSep 13 21:21
schestowitztrmanco: maybe DDOS, who knowsSep 13 21:22
twitter1can loot?Sep 13 21:22
schestowitzI got a whale picture a few days agoSep 13 21:22
trmancoagain? I don't think soSep 13 21:22
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, there are a lot of good people here in the USA, but I don't like everything the gov here doesSep 13 21:22
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: I knowSep 13 21:22
schestowitzThe same goes for every countrySep 13 21:22
cubezzzStallman for one :)Sep 13 21:22
twitter1The destruction of GM and China walking away with trophies like Hummer is not proof of ongoing looting?Sep 13 21:22
cubezzzhe's pretty goodSep 13 21:22
schestowitzNot everyone in Tehran, or Germany or Isreal agrees with the governmentSep 13 21:23
schestowitzSame in the USSep 13 21:23
schestowitzMany oppose the governmentSep 13 21:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] JGC on how the Turing apology was won http://bit.ly/wxAltSep 13 21:23
schestowitzAs for the rest, well... the BRAINWASH affects them effectivelySep 13 21:23
schestowitzSo then the question is, are those who are susciptible to misinformation and propaganda guilty too?Sep 13 21:23
schestowitzOr just those who spread it?Sep 13 21:23
schestowitzLike the Bush cabinet for example?Sep 13 21:24
Chips_B_MalroyW is goneSep 13 21:24
schestowitzWilliam Gates?Sep 13 21:24
trmancohttp://www.inspircd.com/index.php?page=Main&action=Read&id=93Sep 13 21:24
schestowitzWalker?Sep 13 21:24
trmancoyay for the kde devsSep 13 21:24
schestowitzBIlly Boy is still lobbyingSep 13 21:24
*schestowitz thinks it's weird how fast trmanco turned from GNOME/GTK to hardcore kmanSep 13 21:25
trmancoLOLSep 13 21:25
trmancopeople just changeSep 13 21:25
schestowitzDoes Microsoft Windows Mobile Have A Future? http://www.bmighty.com/mobile/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=219700387Sep 13 21:26
Chips_B_MalroyB. Gates is an control freak, you only have to look at DRM and WGA in windows to know that.  Sadly, Gates has expanded his control complex to other areas beyond just software.Sep 13 21:26
schestowitzReading MSFT news is funSep 13 21:26
schestowitzThey are dead liverSep 13 21:26
trmancoand when the change is to a better thing, they change without any hassleSep 13 21:26
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: he can run but he can't hideSep 13 21:26
schestowitzIn medicine, people have already accuse the man of monopolisingSep 13 21:26
schestowitzIt harms their innovation in research... midecal researchSep 13 21:27
Chips_B_MalroyRoy, MS Watch has now failed to post 3 of my more recent comments, including the one with the link here.Sep 13 21:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] @_Goblin MS is not to be trusted, IMOSep 13 21:27
schestowitzIOW, BillG may be causing more deaths for perosnal benefitSep 13 21:27
trmancoIf I were lying about my satisfaction with kde, I would be posting that stuffSep 13 21:27
[H]omerHello folksSep 13 21:28
trmancoand they truth it, I'm simply loving itSep 13 21:28
[H]omerSorry for the long absenceSep 13 21:28
trmancohey [H]omerSep 13 21:28
[H]omerMonths? I thinkSep 13 21:28
trmancothe*Sep 13 21:28
trmancomaybe a year :-PSep 13 21:28
trmancoalmostSep 13 21:28
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: it's a fan site for MicrosoftSep 13 21:28
[H]omerI'm busy developing something ATMSep 13 21:28
schestowitzI saw the recent postsSep 13 21:28
schestowitzDisgustingSep 13 21:28
[H]omerI need helpSep 13 21:28
schestowitzI raise this issue in IRCSep 13 21:28
[H]omerAny takers?Sep 13 21:28
Chips_B_MalroyGates is using his power, (wealth) to control the DOJ, to target his competition (Google).  But  I think its more than just thatSep 13 21:28
schestowitzI hope Microsoft at least pays part of his wageSep 13 21:28
schestowitzMicrosoft works a lot of Ziff DavisSep 13 21:29
twitter1Wintel Rags.Sep 13 21:29
twitter1soon gone.Sep 13 21:29
twitter1bblSep 13 21:29
schestowitz[H]omer: absence for almost a year.Sep 13 21:29
schestowitzNo trolls anymoreSep 13 21:29
[H]omer*One Year*?Sep 13 21:29
[H]omerGood God!Sep 13 21:29
schestowitzFeels like itSep 13 21:29
schestowitz#slated has been 'mine' :-pSep 13 21:30
[H]omerReally that long?Sep 13 21:30
[H]omerWowSep 13 21:30
trmancohttp://laforge.gnumonks.org/weblog/2009/09/13/#20090913-foss_in-hacker_conferenceSep 13 21:30
trmanconice blogSep 13 21:30
schestowitzHow's blagblagblag?Sep 13 21:30
[H]omerI forget what happenedSep 13 21:30
trmancoKISS styleSep 13 21:30
[H]omerSome "bad" incidentSep 13 21:30
[H]omerAnyway ... I'm baaaaackSep 13 21:30
[H]omerI need a filesystem expert, prontoSep 13 21:31
[H]omerNot a problem, just developmentSep 13 21:31
schestowitzOiaohm is the guySep 13 21:31
schestowitzHe's doing data recoverySep 13 21:31
[H]omerOiaom who?Sep 13 21:31
schestowitzCOlinsSep 13 21:31
trmanco:)Sep 13 21:31
schestowitzHe's here every now and thenSep 13 21:31
trmancoyeah, he is the guySep 13 21:31
trmancoFS's and graphicsSep 13 21:32
[H]omerI need someone to run badblocks on a bad filesystem, then send me the resultant file for analysisSep 13 21:32
[H]omerTo learn the file formatSep 13 21:32
schestowitzoiaohm can do thatSep 13 21:32
schestowitzHe does this for a living... bad dataSep 13 21:32
[H]omerOr I need a pointer to which part of what sources might have a data tableSep 13 21:32
[H]omere2fsck sounds a likely candidateSep 13 21:33
schestowitzDid you ask Linux developers?Sep 13 21:33
*trmanco is using Amarok 2 just to start the flaming :-PSep 13 21:33
schestowitzTso and other people?Sep 13 21:33
*MinceR is using tvtime :>Sep 13 21:33
schestowitztrmanco: amarok works superbly for meSep 13 21:33
trmancoI just need a damn EQSep 13 21:34
trmanco:|Sep 13 21:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Should Microsoft use this for their new ad campaign? http://bit.ly/1wKJFn #microsoft #windows #vista #xpSep 13 21:34
schestowitzLight, VERY stable, nice Wikipedia items to rediscover my collectionsSep 13 21:34
[H]omerschestowitz, you mean on the LKML?Sep 13 21:34
schestowitzDifferent strokes for different folksSep 13 21:34
schestowitz[H]omer: yeahSep 13 21:34
trmancowhat FS do you want to test that on?Sep 13 21:34
[H]omerhmmSep 13 21:34
[H]omerext2Sep 13 21:34
schestowitzIf you have the potential of giving patches back they might then helpSep 13 21:34
trmancoif it's ext4, just send an email thereSep 13 21:34
trmancoohSep 13 21:34
trmancoI'm not sure it's activeSep 13 21:34
[H]omerI need a fs with no journaling, since it's a security riskSep 13 21:35
[H]omerBut the principle is the same across *all* ext(x) systems (badblocks)Sep 13 21:35
trmancoyou can disable journaling in ext4 I thinkSep 13 21:36
schestowitzDoes old FAT have journaling?Sep 13 21:36
[H]omernoSep 13 21:36
trmancoyou can also try the ext4 listSep 13 21:36
[H]omeronly ntfsSep 13 21:36
[H]omerpity there's no "filesystem" channelSep 13 21:36
[H]omerI like immediate feedbackSep 13 21:37
schestowitz*LOL*   @ "Gamers Sue Microsoft, Bungie Over Halo 3 Glitches" http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/09/halo-3-lawsuit/Sep 13 21:37
[H]omerheh!Sep 13 21:37
schestowitz[H]omer: there isSep 13 21:37
schestowitzdaemonfs trolled it , afaikSep 13 21:37
schestowitzmaybe bannedSep 13 21:37
schestowitztried #extX?Sep 13 21:37
[H]omerLemme Google again (tried all day yesterday)Sep 13 21:38
schestowitzI saw his IRC screenshots with xchat and FS channelSep 13 21:38
trmancohttp://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.htmlSep 13 21:38
schestowitzFS=file system, not free softrwareSep 13 21:38
trmancosearch for ext4Sep 13 21:38
trmancothey might know how to helpSep 13 21:38
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schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: Watch Nick:Sep 13 21:40
schestowitzhttp://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Microsoft-Eliminating-27-More-Employees-By-November-1-653604/Sep 13 21:40
schestowitz"Microsoft Eliminating 27 More Employees By Nov. 1"Sep 13 21:40
schestowitzHe writes for the eWEEK site sometimesSep 13 21:40
schestowitzwb, _Hicham_Sep 13 21:40
MinceRjournaling is a security risk?Sep 13 21:41
schestowitz_Hicham_: you know some channel like #fedoraSep 13 21:41
_Hicham_hi schestowitzSep 13 21:41
schestowitzIs there one/s for file systems?Sep 13 21:41
_Hicham_for file systems ?Sep 13 21:41
schestowitzMinceR: maybe for jumping to areas of the disk of another user or rootSep 13 21:41
trmancoit's a security risk if you want to hide data, maybeSep 13 21:42
schestowitzLike buffer overflow using physical errorSep 13 21:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @_Goblin : tortoise and scorpionSep 13 21:43
schestowitztortoisSep 13 21:43
*DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-69-245-224-210.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellSep 13 21:43
schestowitz^ignoreSep 13 21:43
schestowitzDaemonFC: heySep 13 21:43
schestowitzWHat were those file system channels you were in?Sep 13 21:43
DaemonFClooks like JWZ ran into the ALSA problems and had the same reaction as meSep 13 21:43
DaemonFC?Sep 13 21:44
trmancowhat alsa problems?Sep 13 21:44
schestowitzthe name maybeSep 13 21:44
DaemonFChttp://jwz.livejournal.com/490051.htmlSep 13 21:44
DaemonFCschestowitz: You mean when I was talking to Eric Sandeen?Sep 13 21:44
DaemonFChe's in #xfsSep 13 21:44
schestowitzxmms is oldSep 13 21:44
schestowitzAnd it's messy for sound systemsSep 13 21:45
schestowitzToo ancientSep 13 21:45
schestowitzNot maintainedSep 13 21:45
DaemonFCschestowitz: Flash does not play nicely with DMIXSep 13 21:45
schestowitzI used it in MandrivaSep 13 21:45
DaemonFCAudacious doesn't eitherSep 13 21:45
schestowitzNeed to start with puseSep 13 21:45
schestowitz*pulseSep 13 21:45
schestowitzEven then, it's not reliable, so I went back to ExaileSep 13 21:45
trmancoohSep 13 21:45
DaemonFCdo you realize how poorly Pulseaudio integrates into KDE?Sep 13 21:45
schestowitz"Well, FWIW, OSS is marked as "deprecated" in the kernel config. Too bad ALSA is only slightly better."Sep 13 21:46
schestowitzhttp://jwz.livejournal.com/490051.html?thread=6883651#t6883651Sep 13 21:46
DaemonFClmaoSep 13 21:46
DaemonFCOSS really isn't all that badSep 13 21:46
DaemonFCFreeBSD uses it and I've never had anything bitch about not having a lock on my sound cardSep 13 21:46
DaemonFCGPL v2 is still one of the licensing options on OSSSep 13 21:47
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/171845/how_windows_autorun_can_autoinfect.htmlSep 13 21:47
MinceRjwz stopped making sense when he joined the crApple cultSep 13 21:47
DaemonFCI'm half tempted to figure out some way of getting it to workSep 13 21:47
DaemonFCon Linux that isSep 13 21:47
DaemonFCseems like every configuration I've tried, something that wasn't working suddenly works, and I've broken something elseSep 13 21:49
DaemonFCI have no idea why nobody has made a proper version of Pulseaudio for KDESep 13 21:49
DaemonFCyou have outfits like Fedora and Mandriva slapping it in because there's nothing else that worksSep 13 21:50
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving")Sep 13 21:50
DaemonFCand you have Kubuntu which doesn't have any mixer at all by defaultSep 13 21:50
Chips_B_MalroyHi DaemonFC, I read the irc log the other days, and a few things you had to say were very interestingSep 13 21:50
DaemonFCsuch as?Sep 13 21:51
Chips_B_Malroyyou said you had problems with the AAC codecs?Sep 13 21:51
Chips_B_Malroysomething about ffmegSep 13 21:51
DaemonFCyeah, on Ubuntu's version of VLCSep 13 21:51
DaemonFCI don't care if I can play it or notSep 13 21:52
DaemonFCso of course DECODING works fineSep 13 21:52
Chips_B_MalroyI think its a bigger problem than thatSep 13 21:52
Chips_B_MalroyI think its related to ffmegSep 13 21:52
DaemonFCwell, from what I could gather, VLC uses its own version of ffmpegSep 13 21:52
_Hicham_DaemonFC and codecs againSep 13 21:52
DaemonFCseparate from what's on the systemSep 13 21:52
_Hicham_it shouldn'tSep 13 21:53
_Hicham_that is wrongSep 13 21:53
schestowitzDaemonFC: kubuntu has a mixerSep 13 21:53
DaemonFCand Ubuntu must be building their copy of VLC broken like thatSep 13 21:53
schestowitzRun kmixSep 13 21:53
Chips_B_Malroyyes, there is a version that has all the codecsSep 13 21:53
schestowitzOr open it from the panelSep 13 21:53
schestowitzYou can expand it to show like 20+ channelsSep 13 21:53
Chips_B_Malroybut not in the standard repo'sSep 13 21:53
DaemonFCschestowitz: I meant "Why can't anything else play audio while something else has a lock on the hardware?"Sep 13 21:53
_Hicham_still whining about codecsSep 13 21:53
DaemonFCI've got it to where other applications can play audio together, but flash can'tSep 13 21:54
_Hicham_because it has access directly to hardwareSep 13 21:54
Chips_B_Malroywhat I notice with ffmeg is that a lot of the codecs that I have installed, it tells me its not thereSep 13 21:54
_Hicham_flash need pulseaudio supportSep 13 21:54
schestowitzDaemonFC: unique problem for you, thenSep 13 21:54
_Hicham_yesSep 13 21:54
_Hicham_DaemonFC brings silly problemsSep 13 21:54
DaemonFCKDE tells me that my audio device has failed and it's falling back to....Sep 13 21:54
Chips_B_Malroyeither the sybolic link is not there or maybe a bugSep 13 21:54
DaemonFCnothingSep 13 21:54
schestowitz_Hicham_: no, he brings imaginary problemsSep 13 21:55
schestowitzI can't reproduceSep 13 21:55
DaemonFCit's irritatingSep 13 21:55
Chips_B_MalroyI use ffmpeg to convert filesSep 13 21:55
schestowitzFlash 10?Sep 13 21:55
DaemonFCyesSep 13 21:55
DaemonFCso then I have to close my browserSep 13 21:55
_Hicham_hahaSep 13 21:55
DaemonFCnot just the tab that flash was in, THE BROWSERSep 13 21:55
schestowitzSorry, man. No such problem hereSep 13 21:55
_Hicham_silly DaemonFCSep 13 21:55
DaemonFCand shut down the application that couldn't play soundSep 13 21:56
DaemonFCthen reopen the application and it will playSep 13 21:56
_Hicham_hahaSep 13 21:56
Chips_B_Malroythe vcd mpeg codec, ogg works fine, others have that problemSep 13 21:56
_Hicham_can't believe thatSep 13 21:56
schestowitzFirefox?Sep 13 21:56
_Hicham_Liar LiarSep 13 21:56
DaemonFCdoesn't matter which browserSep 13 21:56
DaemonFCthey all do itSep 13 21:56
schestowitzYou may have broken s/tSep 13 21:56
_Hicham_DaemonFC the Shill, Go Take Your PillSep 13 21:56
Chips_B_MalroyThis is for converting files to another format, not firefoxSep 13 21:56
DaemonFCKDE has always done this to meSep 13 21:56
schestowitzWaitSep 13 21:57
DaemonFCPulseaudio on GNOME fixes that particular problemSep 13 21:57
schestowitzDid you change sound server?Sep 13 21:57
schestowitzDefault works splendidlySep 13 21:57
DaemonFCschestowitz: The sound is integrated Intel HDASep 13 21:57
schestowitzNo problem since I first installed itSep 13 21:57
schestowitzSame hereSep 13 21:57
DaemonFCit needs something like Pulseaudio there or it can't play sound from multiple applicationsSep 13 21:57
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC, I am suggesting the problem is with FFmpegSep 13 21:57
schestowitzALSA+OSSSep 13 21:58
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: That's a different problemSep 13 21:58
Chips_B_MalroypossibleSep 13 21:58
schestowitzOn this AMD (!!!) machineSep 13 21:58
Chips_B_Malroybecause I get the same errors trying to convert to mpeg4Sep 13 21:58
DaemonFCPulseaudio on KDE seems to buffer everything the second application was trying to play for the first second or twoSep 13 21:59
DaemonFCbut app 2 is silentSep 13 21:59
*_goblin has quit (Remote closed the connection)Sep 13 21:59
Chips_B_MalroyAlso, you said you had a problem playing hulu?Sep 13 21:59
DaemonFCthen when I close app 1 and it releases the lock, Pulseaudio repeatedly plays that second of audio nonstopSep 13 21:59
DaemonFCtil I kill the app 2, which has frozen, with kill -9Sep 13 21:59
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: In Konqueror and Arora, Hulu doesn't workSep 13 22:00
Chips_B_MalroyahSep 13 22:00
DaemonFCit works in Firefox or OperaSep 13 22:00
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Chips_B_MalroyI played Monk last night in Firefox, but I used Fancast which plays HuluSep 13 22:00
DaemonFCnever tried FancastSep 13 22:01
schestowitzLieberman Software turns out to be another puppet of the VoleSep 13 22:01
DaemonFCif Comcast is involved, it's probably unbelievably shittySep 13 22:01
Chips_B_Malroydid not try Konq, but why is that a problem if you can use Firefox?Sep 13 22:01
DaemonFCWell, I like pretty much everything about KDE except the audio problemsSep 13 22:01
schestowitzPuseaudio?Sep 13 22:02
schestowitzI'm not sure it's even used hereSep 13 22:02
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: Meh, Firefox is its own bag of worms on KubuntuSep 13 22:02
schestowitzDid you intervene with the stack\?Sep 13 22:02
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC, Mint is good, but why not move over to Mepis?  Its based on real Debian.Sep 13 22:02
_Hicham_DaemonFC doesn't like FirefoxSep 13 22:02
schestowitzReal debian... sounds like Real BeerSep 13 22:02
_Hicham_what is he using it? I don't knowSep 13 22:02
DaemonFCschestowitz: I set up Pulseaudio per the directions on the Kubuntu wiki and restarted the systemSep 13 22:02
schestowitzFor "Real Men"Sep 13 22:02
_Hicham_do u have this problem on Konqueror ?Sep 13 22:02
Chips_B_MalroyyepSep 13 22:03
DaemonFCand it jsut made things worse, so I got rid of itSep 13 22:03
schestowitzDaemonFC: don'tSep 13 22:03
schestowitzUse the defaultSep 13 22:03
schestowitzYou mess aboutSep 13 22:03
schestowitzAnd broke itSep 13 22:03
schestowitzSee?Sep 13 22:03
schestowitzI asked you before.Sep 13 22:03
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC has too many problems with pulseaudio, but Mepis is not based on thatSep 13 22:03
schestowitzHe hacks stuff and then declares it brokenSep 13 22:03
DaemonFCI left it alone and it was brokenSep 13 22:04
DaemonFCI went off to try and fix it and it's brokenSep 13 22:04
schestowitzSo had he left it alone live developers set it up when craving alpha5 on stone, it would work ffineSep 13 22:04
schestowitz*likeSep 13 22:04
DaemonFCI say it was dead and cold on arrivalSep 13 22:04
Chips_B_MalroyI would not expect Konq to do everything, its just not reasonableSep 13 22:04
schestowitz*CravingSep 13 22:04
schestowitz*->carvingSep 13 22:04
schestowitzKonq makes some pages and fonts look bettrSep 13 22:05
Chips_B_MalroyIf I can find a good work around, I am happySep 13 22:05
Chips_B_Malroynothing is perfectSep 13 22:05
DaemonFCKonqueror is just a front end to the KHTML system, not really the main feature of itSep 13 22:05
DaemonFCschestowitz: It's easy enough to set it back to the way Kubuntu had itSep 13 22:06
Chips_B_Malroyexcept the price, of GNU/Linux which is freedom (perfect)Sep 13 22:06
DaemonFCseeing as how Kubuntu doesn't have an asound.conf by defaultSep 13 22:06
Chips_B_MalroyI have noticed another problem playing adobe streamed flash in Firefox, sometimes it won't playSep 13 22:07
DaemonFCschestowitz: I don't make changes to anything unless I know I can revert themSep 13 22:08
_Hicham_DaemonFC the scientistSep 13 22:08
Chips_B_Malroyalthough my Firefox is not updated.  I am thinking when this happens, something is not releasing either in Java, Adobe Flash Player, Firefox, or alsa, and like windows, a reboot fixs the problemSep 13 22:09
schestowitzMicrosoft isn't the only company caught using Photoshop http://www.examiner.com/x-20193-Sacramento-Photography-Examiner~y2009m9d7-Microsoft-isnt-the-only-company-caught-using-PhotoshopSep 13 22:09
schestowitzDaemonFC: you broke it , then used it to spread some FUD, IMHOSep 13 22:10
*DaemonFC_ (n=ryan@c-69-245-224-210.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellSep 13 22:10
schestowitzPlay at your own riskSep 13 22:10
*DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Sep 13 22:10
DaemonFC_I'm not risking anythingSep 13 22:11
schestowitzIt turns out we were right about you changing somethingSep 13 22:11
*DaemonFC_ is now known as DaemonFCSep 13 22:11
schestowitzTry MarbleSep 13 22:11
trmancohttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/13/oracle_sun_flashfire/Sep 13 22:11
schestowitzSee what you think of openstreetmapSep 13 22:11
schestowitzIt's a nice toolSep 13 22:11
DaemonFCschestowitz: It's a configuration fileSep 13 22:11
DaemonFCdelete it, reboot, back to defaultSep 13 22:11
schestowitztrmanco: nothing about mysqlSep 13 22:11
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC, last question, you said you like Frys?Sep 13 22:11
DaemonFCyesSep 13 22:11
Chips_B_Malroygo there often?  Its a great storeSep 13 22:12
DaemonFCunfortunately, since I moved there's nothing like that near hereSep 13 22:12
DaemonFCthere's a Best Buy :PSep 13 22:12
schestowitz???Sep 13 22:13
schestowitzhttp://seekingalpha.com/article/160754-microsoft-look-ahead-to-september-2009-quarterly-resultsSep 13 22:13
schestowitzSpetember?Sep 13 22:13
schestowitzDon't they deliver results in Oct?Sep 13 22:13
Chips_B_MalroyIndiania, yea, they don't have Frys.  Theres one here, but I avoid it mostly, cause I just know if I walk in there, I going buy somethingSep 13 22:13
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy: That used to be how I was about Best BuySep 13 22:14
Chips_B_MalroyWell, DaemonFC, I was hoping you knew something about the ffmpeg codec problemSep 13 22:14
DaemonFCno ideaSep 13 22:14
DaemonFCI'm not going to install 300 development packages just to build it myselfSep 13 22:15
Chips_B_MalroyBest Buy has all these great sale, subject to limited.  Which means forget itSep 13 22:15
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: why TO mpeg4?Sep 13 22:15
schestowitzNot FROM?Sep 13 22:15
DaemonFCschestowitz: I'm not overly fond of AACSep 13 22:15
DaemonFCthe rest of the world seems to beSep 13 22:15
DaemonFCIn this case, I needed to stream in itSep 13 22:16
[H]omerOK I've figured it out. A badblocks "file" is a newline separated list of block numbers represented in decimal formatSep 13 22:16
Chips_B_Malroyactually I don't need mpeg4, thats for converting to burn to a video disk.  I think K3B will do that if I wanted toSep 13 22:16
DaemonFCK3B is one of the more useful bundled apps in KDESep 13 22:16
[H]omerNow I just need to convert blocks to byte offsetsSep 13 22:16
Chips_B_Malroybut when I was learning to do this stuff, I tryed itSep 13 22:16
DaemonFCGNOME has Brasero nowSep 13 22:17
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC, agreed on K3BSep 13 22:17
DaemonFCI'm not really thrilled about itSep 13 22:17
Chips_B_MalroyBrasero, is that like K9Copy?  Wasn't it Gnomebaker before?Sep 13 22:17
DaemonFCBrasero doesn't have all the capabilities of K3BSep 13 22:17
DaemonFCif they had to integrate a burning suite, it should have been GNOME BakerSep 13 22:18
Chips_B_Malroyyes, agreed, Gnomebaker was not too badSep 13 22:18
DaemonFCno, Gnomebaker is still in developmentSep 13 22:18
DaemonFCdifferent projectSep 13 22:18
_Hicham_Brasero is more advanced than gnomebakerSep 13 22:19
_Hicham_and more integratedSep 13 22:19
_Hicham_it uses Gstreamer to recored video discsSep 13 22:19
DaemonFCintegrated is a four letter wordSep 13 22:19
DaemonFC:PSep 13 22:19
Chips_B_MalroyHicham, have not tried gnome or Brasero in a long timeSep 13 22:20
DaemonFCintegrated means "we already chose for you, like it or not"Sep 13 22:20
_Hicham_Brasero have gotten betterSep 13 22:20
DaemonFCintegrate is a Microsoft favorite wordSep 13 22:20
DaemonFCright after innovateSep 13 22:20
_Hicham_it is now tightly integrated into gnomeSep 13 22:20
DaemonFCI'm not against application bundlingSep 13 22:20
_Hicham_DaemonFC : integrated means less hussle for developersSep 13 22:21
DaemonFCas long as they can be removed with minimal disruption to the systemSep 13 22:21
_Hicham_it is not bundlingSep 13 22:21
DaemonFCintegration should be used sparinglySep 13 22:21
_Hicham_u can give burning capabilities to ur app easily with libbrasermedia.soSep 13 22:21
_Hicham_integration means that u can program for the desktop easilySep 13 22:22
_Hicham_integration is more toward developers than ordinary usersSep 13 22:22
DaemonFC_Hicham_: That's where the DLL came fromSep 13 22:22
DaemonFCand we know what a joy those are nowSep 13 22:22
_Hicham_yesSep 13 22:22
_Hicham_and that is why programming for windows is easierSep 13 22:22
_Hicham_because u have all the components in front of uSep 13 22:23
DaemonFCnot reallySep 13 22:23
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC, you clearly need to move away from Ubuntuland, as we all know your dislike for UbuntuSep 13 22:23
_Hicham_dll are no more a problemSep 13 22:23
_Hicham_Microsoft finally introduced Manifest filesSep 13 22:23
DaemonFCin some cases it can be, in other cases shared code becomes a dependency and to upgrade the library, there's now two libraries, and three, and fourSep 13 22:23
_Hicham_it was in 2002Sep 13 22:23
DaemonFCand so onSep 13 22:23
_Hicham_with first version of visual studioSep 13 22:24
DaemonFCdo you know how many visual basic DLLs there are?Sep 13 22:24
_Hicham_in linux, the motto is : one library for allSep 13 22:24
DaemonFCjsut for the runtime to cover every versionSep 13 22:24
_Hicham_yes, I know the dll i am compiling againstSep 13 22:24
DaemonFCthen you carve out legacy code and odler programs fail and dieSep 13 22:24
DaemonFCneither option is a good oneSep 13 22:24
DaemonFC*olderSep 13 22:24
MinceRover 9000Sep 13 22:25
_Hicham_this is a real idiotSep 13 22:26
_Hicham_I told u that MS created Manifest filesSep 13 22:26
_Hicham_Manifest files are shipped with the program or embedded in itSep 13 22:26
_Hicham_those Manifest files tells u wich dll u needSep 13 22:27
DaemonFCif Konqueror had auto scrolling and it wasn't for that odd site or twoSep 13 22:27
DaemonFCit would be my default browserSep 13 22:27
_Hicham_and can be integrated easily with installers to check the presence of the dllSep 13 22:27
DaemonFCKonqueror's rendering engine is as fast as Opera'sSep 13 22:28
*PetoKraus (n=pk@cpc1-broo6-0-0-cust1009.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovellSep 13 22:29
balzacI'm diggin conkerorSep 13 22:29
balzackonqueror is nice too. I like that KDE style.Sep 13 22:30
DaemonFChow do you make autoscroll work?Sep 13 22:30
DaemonFCthat's like, basic, isn't it?Sep 13 22:30
balzacconkeror is awesome with gecko and emacs key-bindingsSep 13 22:30
balzacfriggin sweetSep 13 22:30
DaemonFCthat's been missing in action since KDE 4Sep 13 22:30
MinceRthat's like, a gimmick nobody ever usedSep 13 22:30
DaemonFCI use itSep 13 22:30
balzacconkeror is hotSep 13 22:31
balzacother than firefox, it's the best gecko-based browserSep 13 22:31
balzacadd moz-rplSep 13 22:31
balzacget some firebug integration and it's a monster dev toolSep 13 22:31
MinceRwell, i used it once but only because that mouse had no scroll wheel :)Sep 13 22:32
balzacconkeror?Sep 13 22:32
balzacemacs has its own buffer scrolling shortcutsSep 13 22:33
MinceRautoscrollSep 13 22:33
MinceRit was on a university machine i used once, iircSep 13 22:33
balzacfor that matter, you can use whatever you want to engage, view and scrape content into the window of your choiceSep 13 22:33
schestowitzGood headline: http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/09/steve_ballmer_g.htmlSep 13 22:34
balzacI've seen command-line based video editing in EmacsSep 13 22:34
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balzacas well, you can visit image files in an emacs bufferSep 13 22:34
balzacback to basicsSep 13 22:34
balzacRMS wgets his web pagesSep 13 22:34
MinceRwell, i suppose one could write edit lists in a text editorSep 13 22:35
balzacI'm thinking of buying an IPOD just out of Steve Jobs recognitionSep 13 22:35
DaemonFCKonversation has been ported to QT 4Sep 13 22:35
DaemonFCI was happy to see that since Quassel sucks so hardSep 13 22:35
MinceRprobably one of the best ways to cut video for meSep 13 22:35
balzacnew tiny video ipodSep 13 22:36
MinceRyay, new hypePodSep 13 22:36
MinceRsame as the old hypePodSep 13 22:36
balzacJobs put BASH as the default shell in OSX which makes it not so terrible for a mostly proprietary OSSep 13 22:36
DaemonFCMinceR: I hate the iPod, I really do. It's one of those devices you never own, only rent.Sep 13 22:36
*Tallken has quit (Remote closed the connection)Sep 13 22:36
MinceRi guess so, if you only want to use a terminal on itSep 13 22:36
DaemonFCthey even update the firmware without your permissionSep 13 22:36
DaemonFCpossibly wrecking the player or your settingsSep 13 22:37
balzacJobs is on his feet again with a transplanted liverSep 13 22:37
balzache's a hell of a guySep 13 22:37
MinceRDaemonFC: and you can get an unlocked PMP from china for half the price that does moreSep 13 22:37
balzacBallmer should watch his step.Sep 13 22:37
MinceRbalzac: good idea, let's arrange a cage fight for themSep 13 22:37
MinceRwhoever loses, we all win.Sep 13 22:37
DaemonFCMinceR: The no names support Vorbis and FLAC and cost more like 1/5th the price of an iPodSep 13 22:37
balzacDon't be steppin' on an ipod nowadays.Sep 13 22:37
balzacnah, I'd take ballmer down in a cage match.Sep 13 22:38
schestowitzhttp://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/09_37/b4146051036364.htm?chan=technology_technology+index+page_top+storiesSep 13 22:38
DaemonFCthe only real hardware difference is that the knock offs don't say "Apple"on themSep 13 22:38
DaemonFCand might actually have a scratch resistent clear coatSep 13 22:38
MinceRDaemonFC: also, they probably don't explode on their ownSep 13 22:38
DaemonFCthe Sansa media players don't scratch and still have the glossy finishSep 13 22:38
MinceRDaemonFC: while the EU is glad to import dangerous crap from crApple, they'd ban Chinese stuff immediately if they did that.Sep 13 22:38
DaemonFCApple doesn't put a clear coat on the ipod cause they want to sell you the carry caseSep 13 22:38
balzacI'd go three-stooges-bongo-slappin on that bald head of his.Sep 13 22:38
schestowitzA friend showed me this evening his new Nokia Symbian phones phone+keyboard. Nicer than I imagined.....Sep 13 22:39
MinceRbalzac: i'd watch.Sep 13 22:39
schestowitzN90 somehting?Sep 13 22:39
DaemonFCMinceR: The Sansa Fuze is a very nice piece of hardwareSep 13 22:39
MinceRschestowitz: n97Sep 13 22:39
DaemonFCprice is pretty agreeable tooSep 13 22:39
MinceRbalzac: though i'd let him fight jobs first.Sep 13 22:39
MinceRschestowitz: ?Sep 13 22:39
schestowitzMinceR: probablySep 13 22:39
MinceR(yay for forgetting the question mark)Sep 13 22:39
schestowitzI told him about the n900Sep 13 22:39
schestowitzNot here in the UK yet, thoughSep 13 22:39
balzacJobs is a shot-caller, not a henchman. Ballmer is a henchman, not a shot-caller.Sep 13 22:40
MinceRit's still "Coming Soon"Sep 13 22:40
balzacBallmer hasn't earned the right to challenge Jobs to anything.Sep 13 22:40
MinceRbalzac: i wonder how good he is with chairs, thoughSep 13 22:40
schestowitzMinceR: better than "Coming Zoon [HD]"Sep 13 22:40
MinceRbut apparently the n900 won't have any stereo wired headsets or audio adapters.Sep 13 22:40
schestowitzZoooon HD will be US-onlySep 13 22:40
schestowitzThey'll axe itSep 13 22:40
MinceRso it's a nonstarter for me.Sep 13 22:40
schestowitzThey know they've lost alreadySep 13 22:40
schestowitzLike WinMob[sic]Sep 13 22:41
balzachow about Woz vs Gates? Woz would clown him.Sep 13 22:41
MinceRwhy not?Sep 13 22:41
DaemonFCIt supports all the proprietary codecs of course, but also has full support for FLAC and VorbisSep 13 22:41
DaemonFCso no matter what audio file formats you use, it'll play themSep 13 22:41
DaemonFCI'm happier with the $40 Sansa than I was with the $200 iPodSep 13 22:41
DaemonFCI think that the iPod is like everything else Apple makes, all flash and no substanceSep 13 22:41
schestowitzWOz is big nowSep 13 22:41
schestowitzChubby fellaSep 13 22:41
balzacAnd even in his current state, Jobs could still take Gates down.Sep 13 22:41
schestowitzGates is frailSep 13 22:41
MinceRand the winner gets to fight it out with a surprise opponent :>Sep 13 22:41
schestowitzJust arrogant based on those depositionSep 13 22:41
schestowitz*sSep 13 22:42
MinceRgates is fail?Sep 13 22:42
schestowitzHis interrogator could go beyond grillingSep 13 22:42
schestowitzGates refuses to answer simple questionSep 13 22:42
schestowitzHad it been the CIA, they would waterboard the glassy guySep 13 22:42
MinceR:)Sep 13 22:42
DaemonFCdammitSep 13 22:43
balzacGates vs StallmanSep 13 22:43
schestowitz"What do you mean by waterboard?"Sep 13 22:43
DaemonFCanother one of those user agent sniffersSep 13 22:43
balzacnobody would winSep 13 22:43
DaemonFC:DSep 13 22:43
schestowitz"What do you mean by extend?"Sep 13 22:43
schestowitz"What do you mean by thought?"Sep 13 22:43
schestowitz"What do you mean by coup?"Sep 13 22:43
schestowitzbalzac: RMS is strongerSep 13 22:43
schestowitzAnd older tooSep 13 22:43
MinceRbalzac: let Stallman use his katanas.Sep 13 22:43
schestowitzgnu powerSep 13 22:44
*sebsebseb (n=sebastia@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovellSep 13 22:44
MinceRhttp://xkcd.com/225/Sep 13 22:44
sebsebsebhiSep 13 22:44
schestowitzhe could ram into SweatyB if he triedSep 13 22:44
balzacyeah, but they're both so sedentary, nobody could get them to throw down.Sep 13 22:44
schestowitzBut he had a dodgy kneeSep 13 22:44
schestowitzI'd beat Ballmer tooSep 13 22:44
balzacTorvalds' wife probably taught him some karateSep 13 22:44
*sebsebseb is now known as sebsebsebsebSep 13 22:44
schestowitzHe a coward, chickenhawnSep 13 22:44
schestowitzWatch how he ducked under a desk to escape mere eggsSep 13 22:45
*sebsebsebseb is now known as sebsebsebSep 13 22:45
schestowitzTorvalds is strong too, but he's much youngerSep 13 22:45
schestowitzWhen is Torvalds 40?Sep 13 22:45
_Hicham_Ballmer do not play BaseballSep 13 22:45
schestowitzBaketballSep 13 22:45
balzache might take ballmer down with a kick to the the legSep 13 22:45
_Hicham_not like BushSep 13 22:45
schestowitzSince collegeSep 13 22:45
_Hicham_Bush can escape any missileSep 13 22:45
DaemonFCschestowitz: Comcast recommends Internet ExplorerSep 13 22:46
DaemonFCany surprise?Sep 13 22:46
DaemonFChmmmSep 13 22:46
schestowitzBush could escape shoesSep 13 22:46
schestowitzThe guy on stage helped him *LOL*Sep 13 22:46
schestowitz"Podium buddy"Sep 13 22:46
_Hicham_schestowitz is a sword masterSep 13 22:46
_Hicham_where did u learn fighting with swords schestowitz ?Sep 13 22:46
schestowitz"[match not found] recommends Comkkkast"Sep 13 22:46
schestowitz_Hicham_: me???Sep 13 22:47
schestowitzMoi?Sep 13 22:47
*DaemonFC recommends Internet Explorer to schestowitzSep 13 22:47
schestowitzI haven't fought since I was like 15Sep 13 22:47
schestowitzSome guy at school... we were friends laterSep 13 22:47
DaemonFCschestowitz: http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3023/snapshot7.pngSep 13 22:47
schestowitzGOOD -:> http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTelecomNews/idUSN1041348920090911 (U.S. video game sales down 16 pct in Aug.-NPD)Sep 13 22:48
trmancohttp://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=80006Sep 13 22:49
trmanco:OSep 13 22:49
schestowitzI see you use KonversationSep 13 22:49
schestowitzHow do you like it?Sep 13 22:49
schestowitzIt's not a final version, but it feels almost like oneSep 13 22:49
schestowitzLine markers don't work yetSep 13 22:50
schestowitzIssue reported and will be fixed. I added info to the bug reportsSep 13 22:50
DaemonFCschestowitz: I like it much better than QuasselSep 13 22:50
DaemonFCQuassel lags and churns the hard diskSep 13 22:50
trmancoamarok diedSep 13 22:50
DaemonFCwhoever bolted sqlite onto an irc client needs to be slappedSep 13 22:50
DaemonFCI used Konqueror back on KDE 3Sep 13 22:51
DaemonFCerrr KonversationSep 13 22:51
DaemonFCoopsSep 13 22:51
trmancoExecutable: amarok PID: 11545 Signal: 11 (Segmentation fault)Sep 13 22:51
DaemonFCKoverloadSep 13 22:51
schestowitztrmanco: weird. Bad luck? Bad playlist?Sep 13 22:51
trmancomaybeSep 13 22:52
trmancoI was playing some internet musicSep 13 22:52
trmancothen it stoppedSep 13 22:52
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovellSep 13 22:52
trmancoand when I tried to change, it's wouldn't connectSep 13 22:52
DaemonFCschestowitz: I would have rather shipped some QT 3 libraries to support Konversation 3.x than bundle QuasselSep 13 22:52
trmancothen when I tried to close it it crashedSep 13 22:52
DaemonFCif I was distributing a KDE-based systemSep 13 22:52
DaemonFCthere's still a few things that need QT 3 anywaySep 13 22:53
schestowitztrmanco: go local, legally.Sep 13 22:53
schestowitzhttp://sites.google.com/site/sxsw2009torrent/Sep 13 22:53
DaemonFCnot many left, but most users will end up with the librariesSep 13 22:53
trmancoahSep 13 22:53
trmancoworking againSep 13 22:54
schestowitz"Microsoft is preparing a huge Windows 7 marketing campaign. We don't know yet know what it will be like, but three concept videos are giving us a big hint. "Sep 13 22:54
trmancointernet is better, I get to hear real time dj's and stuffSep 13 22:54
schestowitzPrepare for the SlogSep 13 22:54
DaemonFCschestowitz: I fiddled with another setting and got the sound system working smoothlySep 13 22:54
schestowitzMany Microsoft SHILLS in many forumsSep 13 22:54
schestowitzIt's not illegal for Microsoft to do thisSep 13 22:54
DaemonFCit was emulate something or otherSep 13 22:54
DaemonFCin my asound.confSep 13 22:54
schestowitzMany complaints to FTC in order...Sep 13 22:54
DaemonFCI better back up this configuration just so I don't have to remember what I did laterSep 13 22:55
schestowitzWeek in Microsoft: trolling other OSes for fun and profit! < http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/09/week-in-microsoft-trolling-other-oses-for-fun-and-profit.ars >Sep 13 22:55
DaemonFCFancast doesn't work on KonquerorSep 13 22:55
schestowitztrmanco: lots and LOTS of trolling in COLASep 13 22:55
DaemonFCnot surprising since it's just a front for HuluSep 13 22:55
schestowitzWait and watchSep 13 22:55
schestowitzVista 7 will bombSep 13 22:55
schestowitzAnd they need to make it seem otherwiseSep 13 22:56
schestowitzSlogSep 13 22:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Just got my Freenode cloak WHOOHOO!!Sep 13 22:56
DaemonFCschestowitz: I'm still hoping they manage to port the entire KDE desktop to WindowsSep 13 22:56
trmancololSep 13 22:56
trmancoI have a "cloak" of my own :-PSep 13 22:56
schestowitzThistleWeb: "unaffiliated"Sep 13 22:56
_Hicham_DaemonFC the comcaster wants to go fasterSep 13 22:56
ThistleWebschestowitz: yepSep 13 22:56
DaemonFCit's one of those things where maybe people see it's good and decide to try it on Linux nextSep 13 22:56
schestowitzDaemonFC: no point in doing thatSep 13 22:57
schestowitzMaybe laterSep 13 22:57
DaemonFCschestowitz: MarketingSep 13 22:57
schestowitzThey put it on the backburnersSep 13 22:57
schestowitzMehSep 13 22:57
schestowitzFor Vista/Vista7Sep 13 22:57
DaemonFCMicrosoft does enough negative marketing, why can't the free software guys fight Microsoft back on their own turf?Sep 13 22:57
DaemonFCand maybe that does mean caring how free software works on WindowsSep 13 22:57
ThistleWebI have another project which I have a different account for, and I'll need a cloak for that too. I dont care what the cloak is, as long as it hides my IP from the channelsSep 13 22:57
_Hicham_u start the fight DaemonFCSep 13 22:57
trmancoschestowitz: yeah, bad stream crashed amarokSep 13 22:58
trmanco:|Sep 13 22:58
DaemonFCif it works poorly on Windows, people may assume it works bad everywhereSep 13 22:58
trmancooffline stream :|Sep 13 22:58
DaemonFC_Hicham_: Firefox did get a lot of people interested in open source softwareSep 13 22:58
DaemonFCand led to quite a few Linux migrations I'm sureSep 13 22:58
DaemonFCnot what it was there to do, but it did itSep 13 22:59
DaemonFCif Linux use can go up a couple points due to a functional KDE on Windows, it's a good thing for everyoneSep 13 22:59
schestowitzXsigo sells out to Microsoft, tooSep 13 22:59
DaemonFCLinux LiveCDs really just don't cut itSep 13 23:00
DaemonFCslow, lacking hardware support that thigns like Nvidia drivers can provide, etc.Sep 13 23:00
schestowitzDaemonFC: lack of focusSep 13 23:00
schestowitzLinux can do fine w/o FirefoxSep 13 23:00
DaemonFCif people got to demo it in working order, I think more people would install itSep 13 23:00
schestowitzIt has other browsersSep 13 23:00
_Hicham_Mandriva One contains non-free stuffSep 13 23:00
DaemonFCschestowitz: It canSep 13 23:01
_Hicham_what do u want more ?Sep 13 23:01
schestowitzBut we need KDE focused not on WIndows newbies]Sep 13 23:01
schestowitzThe Ardour guy explains it wellSep 13 23:01
DaemonFCschestowitz: I didn't say make it some kind of Windows-centric thingSep 13 23:01
schestowitzlisten to http://www.twit.tv/floss86Sep 13 23:01
DaemonFCI jsut mean a proper portSep 13 23:01
schestowitzTowards the end he mentions the Bryce experience of InkscapeSep 13 23:01
schestowitzPorting to WIndows->community curseSep 13 23:01
DaemonFChow is that?Sep 13 23:02
schestowitzListen to itSep 13 23:02
DaemonFCa program working on Windows doesn't mean it can't work just as well on Linux as if they hadn't ported itSep 13 23:02
DaemonFCeven the FSF makes Windows ports of lots of thingsSep 13 23:02
DaemonFCpeople that promote hoarding of free software are just as bad as people defending proprietary software companies hoarding programsSep 13 23:03
DaemonFCI can understand the concern about turning a program into some kind of value added tack-on utility for WindowsSep 13 23:04
MinceRafaik it's legal to include the nvidia proprietary installer on a livecd, so someone should do thatSep 13 23:04
DaemonFCbut the point is that you expose how badly one piece of Windows was working, and how well the alternative turned outSep 13 23:04
MinceRand have it install on bootupSep 13 23:04
DaemonFCit gets the gears turningSep 13 23:04
DaemonFCMinceR: Nvidia's license does permit redistributionSep 13 23:04
DaemonFCincluding installing it by defaultSep 13 23:04
DaemonFCand repackaging it in a means appropriate to install on a distributionSep 13 23:05
DaemonFCtheir installer is hell on wheels anywaySep 13 23:05
DaemonFCyou really don't want to use that if you can avoid itSep 13 23:05
DaemonFCuse what your distribution provides unless you can't get it workingSep 13 23:06
MinceRthen it should be included in livecd-s/livedvd-sSep 13 23:06
MinceR(obviously on ones that include nonfree sw anyway)Sep 13 23:06
DaemonFCbut it's not, because working hardware would piss off people that don't even own that hardwareSep 13 23:07
schestowitzGoogle's mystery UFO doodle finally explained < http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-10345951-71.html >Sep 13 23:07
DaemonFCI think a lot of that is just petty crapSep 13 23:07
DaemonFCtelling me I can't use hardware I boughtSep 13 23:07
DaemonFCthe module isn't even loaded unless you have an Nvidia card, so where is the controversy?Sep 13 23:08
MinceRgnSep 13 23:08
trmancognSep 13 23:08
DaemonFCpractically, you either have the card or you have the 10 megs or so for the driver taken on your hard diskSep 13 23:08
DaemonFCso the benefits of shipping with it are pretty clearSep 13 23:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Australia overtakes US as biggest polluter: report: http://is.gd/3eDF3Sep 13 23:09
schestowitzhttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB125233535476990361.htmlSep 13 23:09
schestowitzAnother bit of Microsoft poison on the loose?Sep 13 23:09
DaemonFCbut at least Ubuntu does test the version of the driver they shipSep 13 23:09
DaemonFCmake sure it won't do anything badSep 13 23:09
DaemonFCI may just use Konqueror and keep Opera around for those oddball sitesSep 13 23:11
DaemonFCI do like how Konqueror views FTP sites and MP3 folders and suchSep 13 23:11
DaemonFCthat's really cool actuallySep 13 23:12
schestowitzhttp://www.groklaw.net/newsitems.php?page=2Sep 13 23:12
schestowitz"[PJ: Mary Jo Foley clearly says on the audio, near the end, that she "found out" that Microsoft already has a patch to remove customXML, ready to launch now. Did Microsoft not just get a stay of the injunction by saying in the emergency motion for a stay that they couldn't possibly fix it in time? And didn't the lower court say he thought they had this patch capability?]"Sep 13 23:12
DaemonFCschestowitz: WSJ is a mouthpiece for Republicans and MicrosoftSep 13 23:12
schestowitzDaemonFC: old featureSep 13 23:12
DaemonFCdon't trust anything they saySep 13 23:12
schestowitzSince early 3.0/1Sep 13 23:12
DaemonFCyeahSep 13 23:12
schestowitzOr maybe 2.xSep 13 23:12
DaemonFCKonqueror does some things very wellSep 13 23:12
schestowitzDaemonFC: I never trust WSJSep 13 23:12
schestowitzMurdoch and Big BusinessSep 13 23:12
schestowitzSame with Business WeekSep 13 23:13
schestowitzTo a great extent NYT too... the 'trend-setting' mediaSep 13 23:13
DaemonFCschestowitz: Trend setting in the over-40 demographicSep 13 23:13
DaemonFCthe people that still buy newspapersSep 13 23:13
DaemonFCnewspapers are already fucked, but in 10-15 years, they won't exist anymore reallySep 13 23:14
DaemonFCmaybe a few of the really really big onesSep 13 23:14
DaemonFCif they don't allow themselves to become partisan and biased like Fox NewsSep 13 23:14
schestowitzEFF: National Coalition of Authors Urge Rejection of Google Book Search Deal < http://lwn.net/Articles/351481/ >Sep 13 23:14
schestowitzThem too?Sep 13 23:14
schestowitzFox can eb fundedSep 13 23:15
schestowitzNot by readersSep 13 23:15
schestowitzMore like how 'candidates' are fundedSep 13 23:15
schestowitzto serve agendaSep 13 23:15
DaemonFCyeah, as their subscriber base dwindles, they're being paid by big businesses and political partiesSep 13 23:15
schestowitz"Selling privileged audience"Sep 13 23:15
DaemonFCto write advertisements posing as newsSep 13 23:16
schestowitzThat already happensSep 13 23:16
schestowitzIt's why I mostly read blogs I trustSep 13 23:16
schestowitzRMS suggests likewiseSep 13 23:16
DaemonFCthat is pissing off even more of their subscribers into cancellingSep 13 23:16
schestowitzYou know RMS... that man whom you admire :-pSep 13 23:16
DaemonFCin some waysSep 13 23:16
DaemonFCa very polarizing figureSep 13 23:16
schestowitzGhostwriting from ad agenciesSep 13 23:16
schestowitzSee Microsoft+W-E+Ogara for exampleSep 13 23:17
schestowitzThey 'feed' storiesSep 13 23:17
*_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)Sep 13 23:17
schestowitzThey fed an attack on OSDL (Linux)Sep 13 23:17
DaemonFCRMS is not always wrongSep 13 23:17
DaemonFCbut he's not always right eitherSep 13 23:17
DaemonFCI think he's dead on about DRM for exampleSep 13 23:17
schestowitzI disagree with RMS on thingsSep 13 23:17
DaemonFCbut boycotting Caterpiller is just insaneSep 13 23:17
schestowitz[H]omer does tooSep 13 23:17
schestowitzIt would be odd and dangerous to agree blindly on thingsSep 13 23:17
schestowitzAsay I disagree with A LOTSep 13 23:18
trmancoCaterpillar?Sep 13 23:18
DaemonFCthere are those who doSep 13 23:18
schestowitzBut he's not an enemy of our causeSep 13 23:18
schestowitzDaemonFC: he pisses off many peopleSep 13 23:18
schestowitzPolitcal stuff mostlySep 13 23:18
DaemonFCtrmanco: He suggested a boycott of Caterpillar because the Israeli government buys themSep 13 23:18
DaemonFCand then knocks over houses with themSep 13 23:18
schestowitzIt's a good thing few people read him (politcal) blogSep 13 23:18
DaemonFCwhat the hell does RMS want?Sep 13 23:18
DaemonFCdoes he want them to use rocket launchers isntead?Sep 13 23:18
DaemonFCI mean fuck, you know?Sep 13 23:18
trmancoyou are talking about the bulldozer companySep 13 23:18
trmanco?Sep 13 23:18
DaemonFCthere's plenty of decent hard working people like my dadSep 13 23:18
DaemonFCwho worked at CaterpillarSep 13 23:19
schestowitzHe wants the settlers to leaveSep 13 23:19
DaemonFClaid off this yearSep 13 23:19
schestowitzThey are paid to grab landSep 13 23:19
DaemonFC57 years old and still trying to find a jobSep 13 23:19
schestowitzThey should quit that whole "god gave us this land" nonsenseSep 13 23:19
DaemonFCand I know not enough people listen to RMS to make a difference with CaterpillarSep 13 23:19
schestowitzbetter to live side by side by reprecting one anotherSep 13 23:19
DaemonFCbut it's like pouring salt in the wound to hear him prattle on about itSep 13 23:19
DaemonFCand he can be damned glad he diudn't say it to my faceSep 13 23:19
schestowitzNeither side does well, but demolishion is a wasteSep 13 23:20
schestowitzCaterpillar builds stuff to BREAK stuffSep 13 23:20
DaemonFCschestowitz: Demolition is sometimes necessarySep 13 23:20
DaemonFCheavy machinery is neededSep 13 23:20
DaemonFCand they can sell it to whoever they damned well pleaseSep 13 23:20
DaemonFCand if they didn't, the Israelis would be knocking down houses by some other meansSep 13 23:20
DaemonFCso RMS can jsut go screw himself on thise oneSep 13 23:21
DaemonFCI'm not saying I agree with the Israeli government, this is not a political matterSep 13 23:21
DaemonFCRMS should see his way outSep 13 23:21
DaemonFCit would be like me blaming the company that makes butcher knives for women stabbing their husbands with themSep 13 23:22
DaemonFCit's just so damned insane it's not even in this universeSep 13 23:22
schestowitzhttp://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/multimedia/ero/index.htmlSep 13 23:22
DaemonFCanyway, dinner timeSep 13 23:22
DaemonFCbblSep 13 23:23
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] A 30,000 Line Patch For Mesa Brings Geometry Shaders: http://is.gd/3eFgZSep 13 23:25
schestowitzImmunity for Web Site Owners < http://www.law.com/flat/ltn/1202433660830.html >Sep 13 23:25
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection)Sep 13 23:27
*desu (i=desu@i.hate.your.vhosts.shellium.org) has joined #boycottnovellSep 13 23:27
schestowitzzoobab: http://thepriorart.typepad.com/the_prior_art/2009/09/intellectual-ventures-possible-lawsuits.html#moreSep 13 23:36
schestowitzhttp://www.law.com/newswire/cache/1202433754172.htmlSep 13 23:36
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzSep 13 23:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Might take a look at Mint Xfce....Sep 13 23:39
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