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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 7th, 2009

*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 00:03
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schestowitzJPerlow: that's HessOct 07 00:06
oiaohmBoy seeing articales trying to say KDE 4 is bad turning up.Oct 07 00:08
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 00:08
oiaohmKDE 4 prime goal is 1 source code everywhere.Oct 07 00:08
trmancokde trollsOct 07 00:09
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oiaohmKDE is one of the few desktops trying to come up to a solution to this everything on cloud issue.Oct 07 00:10
schestowitzWhoaOct 07 00:12
schestowitzTurns out RMS went to HarvardOct 07 00:12
schestowitzHe only studied in MIT for one yearOct 07 00:13
trmancowhat?Oct 07 00:13
oiaohmThen lectured at MIT.Oct 07 00:14
oiaohmMost people don't know RMS history.Oct 07 00:14
oiaohmMIT is where RMS has been the longest.Oct 07 00:14
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-LXUHJmzzcOct 07 00:26
*Xarver (n=kenny@cpe-76-173-101-172.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 00:26
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Neil Degrasse Tyson The Elements: Forged in Stars .::. Size~: 126.13 KBOct 07 00:26
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*mfwitten (n=mfwitten@97-116-112-88.mpls.qwest.net) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 00:35
mfwittenI'm sure this has been asked before, so sorry for the repeat: Was there as much poo-pooing about Java and attempts to implement that infrastructure in open source as there is about Mono/.NETOct 07 00:36
Diablo-D3mfwitten: you mean, "why did microsoft give novell money to try to kill java"? I dont know, microsoft is dumb that wayOct 07 00:38
Diablo-D3but no, no one gave a fuck when sun opened javaOct 07 00:38
Diablo-D3the collective response was "its about time"Oct 07 00:38
Diablo-D3when microsoft had consensual mansex with novell? "eww, do not want"Oct 07 00:38
oiaohmmfwitten: Difference with Java is that everyone knows where they legally stand on it.Oct 07 00:42
oiaohmmfwitten: always has.Oct 07 00:42
mfwittenDiablo-D3: No. That's not what I meant.Oct 07 00:42
mfwittenoiaohm: ah.Oct 07 00:43
mfwittenoiaohm: So things like the open source class path and java compiler etc. were KNOWN to be OKOct 07 00:43
oiaohmEven when gcj was reimplementing java sun said they would not use any patents against open source.Oct 07 00:43
oiaohmSun even expected others to reimplement the jvm.Oct 07 00:44
mfwittenoiaohm: So it was kind of a .... CP?Oct 07 00:44
oiaohmBroader mfwittenOct 07 00:44
oiaohmSun gives a generic protection not to attack open source.Oct 07 00:44
oiaohmSince open source is to its advantage.Oct 07 00:44
Diablo-D3mfwitten: basically, I hate microsoft for cocking this up so badlyOct 07 00:45
Diablo-D3sun largely did a similar thingOct 07 00:45
Diablo-D3yet, IM USING JAVAOct 07 00:45
Diablo-D3HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMOct 07 00:45
mfwittenHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM INdeeedOct 07 00:45
oiaohmSun kept there core JVM closed.Oct 07 00:45
mfwittenrightOct 07 00:45
oiaohmBut IBM and others implemented JVM's with Sun blessing.Oct 07 00:45
oiaohmNo legal risks.Oct 07 00:45
oiaohmThe issue with mono is lack of clear blessing.Oct 07 00:46
mfwittenThe best argument I see against Mono is that Microsoft only said it would only apply its CP to the ECMA standards, and yet mono is implementing much more than thatOct 07 00:46
oiaohmThere are techinal ones as well mfwittenOct 07 00:47
mfwittenSo what would happen if you got a very clear blessing? Would the campaign against Mono stop?Oct 07 00:47
oiaohmLot would disappear with a clear blessing.Oct 07 00:47
oiaohmThe techinal ones that a jvm/aot engines mono uses don't work that effectively with OS memory management don't go away.Oct 07 00:47
mfwittenoiaohm: Is there a compiled list of clear problems (something objective)Oct 07 00:48
oiaohmMost are generical to JIT engines mfwittenOct 07 00:49
oiaohmType of memory allocated mfwitten.   In a standard native binary its maped to memory.  So if that memory space is need it don't have to be sent to swap space.Oct 07 00:49
oiaohmWhere with likes of .net due to lot of stuff done on fly in cases of high memory load only option is to push items to swap.Oct 07 00:50
oiaohmThat does have a major performance price at high load mfwittenOct 07 00:50
mfwittenSo, specifically, these are technical qualms you're listing in the sense that you think that, say, Java is a better tool.Oct 07 00:51
oiaohmNo as a desktop Java was a failure as well mfwittenOct 07 00:51
oiaohmMono developers have learnt nothing from history.Oct 07 00:52
mfwittenOh. So this is general JIT problems you mean (as you said)Oct 07 00:52
mfwittenIn other words, you're saying something like Qt will produce better performing apps every timeOct 07 00:53
oiaohmComplier is a factor.Oct 07 00:53
oiaohmOnly reason JIT and AOT of .net wins at times is major complier problems.Oct 07 00:53
mfwittenProblems with Java's compiler you mean?Oct 07 00:54
oiaohmC and C++ compliers gcc in particular.Oct 07 00:54
mfwittenokOct 07 00:54
oiaohmQT links up with KDE and provides a far large framework to get stuff done than .netOct 07 00:55
oiaohmEven java.Oct 07 00:55
mfwittenHowever, aren't the JIT/AOT problems solvable in time just as the C/C++ compiler problems can be solved eventually?Oct 07 00:55
oiaohmJIT problem cannot be solved mfwittenOct 07 00:55
oiaohmIts a non fixable design flaw.Oct 07 00:56
mfwittenoiaohm: OhOct 07 00:56
mfwittenThat's been proved?Oct 07 00:56
*schestowitz done watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1Rz9K48Y64&NR=1Oct 07 00:56
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Neil deGrasse Tyson interviewed on S.G.U. 1/2 .::. Size~: 109.78 KBOct 07 00:56
oiaohmYes it has mfwittenOct 07 00:56
Diablo-D3you do know neil was on sg-1, right/Oct 07 00:56
mfwittenoiaohm: Interesting!Oct 07 00:56
schestowitzNope.Oct 07 00:57
schestowitzI've just run out of Sagan stuffOct 07 00:57
mfwittenoiaohm: Well, that's enough for me not to want to use itOct 07 00:57
schestowitzNice story there about him and TysonOct 07 00:57
oiaohmAOT can avoid the flaw but then you end up with native build exes that don't improve performance at run time.Oct 07 00:57
mfwittenahOct 07 00:57
mfwittenSo, for long-running programs, isn't the JIT/AOT design better?Oct 07 00:57
oiaohmSo you have to build a complier that works to use AOT anyhow.Oct 07 00:57
oiaohmIe AOT is basically just a normally complier.Oct 07 00:58
mfwittenoiaohm: Isn't that an aim of LLVM?9$Oct 07 00:58
mfwittenOh I misunderstood, oiaohmOct 07 00:58
mfwittenYou're saying that the JIT/AOT guys have chosen longterm runtime improvement over immediate memory performanceOct 07 00:59
oiaohmNot really.Oct 07 00:59
oiaohmJIT performance over runtime is a bug.Oct 07 01:00
oiaohmLot of current day compliers cannot profile there code well.Oct 07 01:00
trmancololOct 07 01:00
oiaohmWith native programs you can get the longterm runtime improvement  just by profiling.Oct 07 01:00
trmancosee google's logoOct 07 01:00
trmancobar code :|Oct 07 01:00
mfwittenSo LLVM should bring those performance gains to, say, C/C++?Oct 07 01:01
oiaohmDifference is  native program remembers.Oct 07 01:01
oiaohmSo you don't start off from scratch just because you had to restart program.Oct 07 01:01
mfwittenrightOct 07 01:01
oiaohmBasically JIT is nothing more than a hack.Oct 07 01:01
mfwittenCouldn't they just build in that kind of memory into JIT designs?Oct 07 01:01
oiaohmAround complier issues that should be fixed.Oct 07 01:02
mfwittenAfter running each time, the profile "database" is updated?Oct 07 01:02
oiaohmThen why not just do it to native code mfwittenOct 07 01:02
mfwittenoiaohm: Wait a minute, then. You're saying that the java compiler should produce better code and not require JIT optimization?Oct 07 01:03
oiaohmjava complier should have two halfs.Oct 07 01:03
oiaohmOne that produces the native code.Oct 07 01:03
mfwittenoiaohm: Well, I think people like Java/.NET tools/languages better than C/C++Oct 07 01:03
oiaohmanother that montiors the native code to see how it can be improved.Oct 07 01:03
trmanco!quit phIRCeOct 07 01:04
*phIRCe has quit ("Exiting! phIRCe - I told you so!(http://bitbucket.org/trmanco/phirce/)")Oct 07 01:04
trmancognOct 07 01:04
oiaohmand once the code it optmised inside a inch of it live the montor can be shutdown.Oct 07 01:04
oiaohmSo not having long term performance cost mfwittenOct 07 01:04
oiaohmSame can be applied to C or C++Oct 07 01:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Microsoft Windows beats all in security tests http://notnews.today.com/?p=682Oct 07 01:05
mfwittenoiaohm: So... LLVM's architecture (from what I know)Oct 07 01:05
oiaohmLLVM is only the start.Oct 07 01:05
mfwittenoiaohm: Of course, this requires running the program as part of the build, right? (Kind of like firefox's PGO)Oct 07 01:05
oiaohmperf that is being used on Linux kernel.  Monitors way linux kernel is running.Oct 07 01:05
oiaohmSo allowing bad sections of code to be corrected.Oct 07 01:05
oiaohmBasically a optimiser of binaries.Oct 07 01:05
mfwittenCorrected at runtime?Oct 07 01:06
oiaohmIs required.Oct 07 01:06
mfwittenHow is that information changed? The binary is updated?Oct 07 01:06
oiaohmksplice is a good example.Oct 07 01:06
oiaohmYou can change native code programs in memory.Oct 07 01:06
mfwittenWell... That's just JIT optimization, essentially. You want to make those optimizations permanent, right?Oct 07 01:06
oiaohmJIT depends on bytecode.Oct 07 01:07
oiaohmDifferent to native.Oct 07 01:07
mfwittenmeh. x86, for instance, IS bytecodeOct 07 01:07
oiaohmThere is no real need for this.Oct 07 01:07
oiaohm.net and java basically carry around a lot of garbage.Oct 07 01:07
mfwitten"Extended" RTTI, you mean?Oct 07 01:08
mfwittenoiaohm: Or are you still talking about unoptimized code?Oct 07 01:09
oiaohmThe way of optimising.Oct 07 01:09
oiaohmRTTI is a upper struct that cpu level does not have to care about neither does the complier really other than for exported between parts.Oct 07 01:10
mfwittenupper struct? exported between parts?Oct 07 01:10
mfwittenUpper part of a struct, you mean?Oct 07 01:10
oiaohmIe between application and libs.Oct 07 01:11
oiaohmWhen you get down to optimised for cpu as long as the code does what is wanted you can complete disreguard the RTTI information.Oct 07 01:11
oiaohmIts called compliers solving out.Oct 07 01:12
oiaohmCurrently gcc cannot do that effectively either due to lacking link time optmiser.Oct 07 01:12
oiaohmYet sun JIT can solve RTTI structs out.Oct 07 01:12
mfwittenIndeed. However, runtime information can be quite useful when loading and analysing "assemblies" as I've recently seen in C#Oct 07 01:13
oiaohmAssisting decomplers really not a feature for end users.Oct 07 01:13
mfwittenMaybe so.Oct 07 01:14
mfwittenI suppose the same could be achieved with, say, DWARF infoOct 07 01:14
oiaohmLess because solve out dumps what is not required.Oct 07 01:15
oiaohmCurrent gcc DWARF data is also over sized.Oct 07 01:15
mfwittenWell, WTF have people let gcc languish? Why do so many like Java/C#? Why don't free, native-compiled languages provide some of the features that people so like?Oct 07 01:15
oiaohmYou just woke up mfwittenOct 07 01:16
mfwittenThis C++*1*x, for instance, should have been done a decade ago.Oct 07 01:16
mfwitten:-D MaybeOct 07 01:16
oiaohmJava and .net have pulled the focus of people off gcc so its not being got working right.Oct 07 01:16
oiaohmThe focus is in the wrong place.Oct 07 01:17
mfwittenIs LLVM the answer?Oct 07 01:17
oiaohmNot alone mfwittenOct 07 01:17
oiaohmLLVM is part of the problem as well.Oct 07 01:18
mfwittenAre there people that are working on the other parts? or is this just `oiaohm' bantering in #boycottnovell?Oct 07 01:18
oiaohminstead of addressing gcc problems lets just start something new.Oct 07 01:18
oiaohmBiggest thing is Intel and a few other commerical complier builders have sent there teams in places.Oct 07 01:19
oiaohmTo sort out issues.Oct 07 01:19
oiaohmThe work is under way mfwittenOct 07 01:19
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oiaohmJust would be a lot faster if items like mono was not sucking resources away.Oct 07 01:19
mfwittenWell, I don't think it will get done in time. It's too late.Oct 07 01:20
oiaohmNot too late.Oct 07 01:21
mfwittenBy the time things get going strong, .NET/Java will already be fixed, and .NET will always be more advanced that Java (more advanced in terms of users, in particular)Oct 07 01:21
oiaohmThat is wrong.Oct 07 01:21
mfwittenMaybe it is, but it FEELs like we're on the losing end of a long and bloody warOct 07 01:21
oiaohmPeople said the same thing about VB.Oct 07 01:22
mfwittenreally?Oct 07 01:22
oiaohmYes really.Oct 07 01:22
oiaohmNative out lasts.Oct 07 01:22
mfwittenMaybe that's why MS includes VB in all its docs: They just want to spite everyone.Oct 07 01:22
oiaohmVB got replaced by C# more and more.Oct 07 01:22
oiaohm,Net is just a tred mill going no where.Oct 07 01:23
oiaohmIn time they change the language again to try to cover up the error in design.Oct 07 01:23
mfwittenWhat's the language have to do with it really?Oct 07 01:24
oiaohmLinux kernel will be adding a lot of perfomance tracing gear in the next 12 months for native programs.Oct 07 01:24
oiaohmWhat you need as a base to do equal optmisations on native code.Oct 07 01:25
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from trmancoOct 07 01:25
mfwittenYou wait: .Net will include "Persistence of Optimization Technology Home Edition"Oct 07 01:25
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzOct 07 01:25
oiaohmDoes not matter mfwittenOct 07 01:25
oiaohmgnote vs tomboy.Oct 07 01:25
oiaohmgnote native is faster and lighter.Oct 07 01:26
oiaohmAnd it don't have the optimisation assistance yet.Oct 07 01:26
oiaohm.Net is not a magical solution.Oct 07 01:26
mfwittenFine fine. I can appreciate saving cycles---people make fun of me for it. However, what about the fact that people find Java/C# more productive?Oct 07 01:26
Diablo-D3tomboy doesnt evne work right, btwOct 07 01:26
Diablo-D3mfwitten: I dont have to write shit that already existsOct 07 01:27
Diablo-D3basically everything ever has already been written in javaOct 07 01:27
oiaohmCompare to qt .net is not more productive.Oct 07 01:27
Diablo-D3the only other language that has this is perlOct 07 01:27
oiaohmYou don't have the support frameworks to do a lot of stuff mfwittenOct 07 01:27
Diablo-D3although I love perl, it isnt perfectOct 07 01:27
mfwittenDiablo-D3: Your attitude is impossible to place.Oct 07 01:27
Diablo-D3mfwitten: you asked a question, I answered itOct 07 01:28
Diablo-D3having functional frameworks to do nearly everything interesting is the most productive features you can nameOct 07 01:28
oiaohmAlso remember there is vala as well.Oct 07 01:28
Diablo-D3oiaohm: vala is an iffy conceptOct 07 01:28
oiaohmVala is basically C# done in native no .net requireOct 07 01:28
Diablo-D3it strips away everything that made java good and what .net tried to rip offOct 07 01:28
mfwittenDiablo-D3: I agree. So would you be saying that C/C++ would be just as productive if only the libraries existed?Oct 07 01:28
Diablo-D3mfwitten: its one of many reasons, but its one of the largest, yesOct 07 01:28
oiaohmThe libs exist for C and C++Oct 07 01:29
Diablo-D3mfwitten: the problem is, many of those features are built into the language as wellOct 07 01:29
oiaohmIts more the development envorment.Oct 07 01:29
Diablo-D3mfwitten: like, I should _never ever have to write malloc and free again_Oct 07 01:29
mfwittenIndeed. But people fsck up the memory and write exploitable code, etc.Oct 07 01:29
Diablo-D3mfwitten: I've used C for 15 years, perl for 5, java for almost 1Oct 07 01:29
oiaohmEven if you take alloc and free away people still have object leaks.Oct 07 01:30
Diablo-D3I never want to touch, see, or even acknowledge C exists ever againOct 07 01:30
mfwittenIs Vala a general purpose language?Oct 07 01:30
mfwittenDiablo-D3: You're clearly not in the game of writing efficient software.Oct 07 01:30
Diablo-D3mfwitten: having a sane memory management system, having array safetying stuff, not having access to actual memory addresses, this is all importantOct 07 01:30
Diablo-D3mfwitten: oh, but I amOct 07 01:30
Diablo-D3which is why I chose javaOct 07 01:30
Diablo-D3its hard to beat javaOct 07 01:31
oiaohmhttp://live.gnome.org/Vala  Yes mfwittenOct 07 01:31
cubezzzI don't see many commercial games being written in javaOct 07 01:31
cubezzzyou obviously can't use it for everythingOct 07 01:31
Diablo-D3cubezzz: I dont see many commercial games being efficient eitherOct 07 01:31
mfwittenoiaohm: That's largely an algorithm problem (gc)Oct 07 01:31
Diablo-D3and yes, I can, infact, use it for gamesOct 07 01:31
Diablo-D3it works great for gamesOct 07 01:31
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Diablo-D3its a shitload better than c++Oct 07 01:31
Diablo-D3I've actually been using java for a little bit of game development, its nearly perfect ofr itOct 07 01:31
cubezzzeverything Loki and LGP did was C or C++Oct 07 01:32
Diablo-D3unlike C, java can optimize code further during runtime based on usage patternsOct 07 01:32
mfwittenDiablo-D3: In fairness, the Java game libs have the most computationally intensive stuff written C or C++Oct 07 01:32
Diablo-D3cubezzz: uh, they didnt write games, they ported themOct 07 01:32
cubezzzwell that's true, ported yesOct 07 01:32
oiaohmDiablo-D3: optimise at runtime can be done with C.Oct 07 01:32
cubezzzstill a lot of workOct 07 01:32
mfwittenDiablo-D3: oiaohm and I have been talking about JIT optimization for a long time. ENough of thatOct 07 01:32
oiaohmDiablo-D3: that is a tools feature.Oct 07 01:33
Diablo-D3mfwitten: thats their choice... however, games should not be doing computationally intensive things on the cpuOct 07 01:33
oiaohmGcc tools sux.Oct 07 01:33
Diablo-D3this is why most game engines are epic failuresOct 07 01:33
Diablo-D3very few leverage the gpu wellOct 07 01:33
mfwittenDiablo-D3: Well, when you can run general logic on a GPU, let me knowOct 07 01:33
oiaohmYou can mfwittenOct 07 01:33
Diablo-D3mfwitten: I've been doing that for about 2 years.Oct 07 01:33
oiaohmQuite well mfwittenOct 07 01:33
cubezzzDiablo-D3, what about Kernel hacking?Oct 07 01:33
oiaohmopencl makes it fairly simple.Oct 07 01:33
Diablo-D3cubezzz: thats about the only place C is still legitimateOct 07 01:34
oiaohmI guess Diablo-D3 does not like that either.Oct 07 01:34
cubezzzall the chess engines...Oct 07 01:34
Diablo-D3cubezzz: although kernels would probably benefit from being more lisp-like than anythingOct 07 01:34
cubezzzno java chess engine :)Oct 07 01:34
Diablo-D3actually there is a chess engineOct 07 01:34
Diablo-D3ibm has oneOct 07 01:34
Diablo-D3they used java because nothing else was really suited for development on one of their large clustersOct 07 01:35
cubezzzok, of course it's possible, I haven't heard of that oneOct 07 01:35
Diablo-D3cubezzz: I think you haveOct 07 01:35
cubezzzhmm?Oct 07 01:35
oiaohmAt the time Diablo-D3Oct 07 01:35
Diablo-D3cubezzz: Deep Blue.Oct 07 01:35
oiaohmThat is the other thing Diablo-D3 time is changes.Oct 07 01:35
cubezzzI had no idea, interestingOct 07 01:36
Diablo-D3a lot of people believe it was written in COct 07 01:36
Diablo-D3it wasntOct 07 01:36
mfwittenoiaohm: Not every computation maps nicely to a GPU modelOct 07 01:36
mfwittenoiaohm: That's my pointOct 07 01:36
oiaohmGames all does mfwittenOct 07 01:36
Diablo-D3I think a later version may have had significant C code to deal with some of the problems in early ibm java implsOct 07 01:37
cubezzzDiablo-D3, if Java is so good why don't more people use it?Oct 07 01:37
oiaohmAntivirus scanning about 95 percent mfwittenOct 07 01:37
mfwittenoiaohm: Maybe so.Oct 07 01:37
Diablo-D3cubezzz: uh, its the most popular language in existenceOct 07 01:37
oiaohmSorry C is Diablo-D3Oct 07 01:38
oiaohmStill.Oct 07 01:38
Diablo-D3java, currently, has the most programmers currently coding it and the most lines currently being codedOct 07 01:38
oiaohmNo COct 07 01:38
Diablo-D3C is only historically more popular, oiaohmOct 07 01:38
Diablo-D3you have to say all coders ever and all lines everOct 07 01:38
oiaohmEven from modern.Oct 07 01:38
Diablo-D3then C is #1, java is #2Oct 07 01:38
Diablo-D3and C is also three times the age of javaOct 07 01:38
Diablo-D3java caught up to the #2 spot of all time in 1/3rd the time.Oct 07 01:39
oiaohmC then C++ because of MS frameworks then JavaOct 07 01:39
mfwittenDoesn't that say something good about C?Oct 07 01:39
Diablo-D3oiaohm: nopeOct 07 01:39
Diablo-D3oiaohm: code for windows hardly even factors inOct 07 01:39
Diablo-D3mfwitten: nopeOct 07 01:39
Diablo-D3mfwitten: it just says it was the most useful language until java took holdOct 07 01:39
cubezzzIOct 07 01:39
Diablo-D3mfwitten: I mean, dont get me wrong, I used C for 15 yearsOct 07 01:39
oiaohmC is usefel for a lot of tasks.Oct 07 01:39
oiaohmThat java does not fit.Oct 07 01:40
cubezzzA lot of people seem to hate Java applets for some reason, not me personally thoughOct 07 01:40
Diablo-D3mfwitten: writing anything large, complex, layered, and otherwise huge, C isnt the right languageOct 07 01:40
Diablo-D3cubezzz: I doOct 07 01:40
mfwittenI don't know. An empty array in the JVM was 16 bytes last I checked.Oct 07 01:40
cubezzzyou don't like java applets?Oct 07 01:40
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Oct 07 01:40
Diablo-D3mfwitten: yes because java arrays are not C arraysOct 07 01:41
mfwittenExactlyOct 07 01:41
Diablo-D3mfwitten: it is very easy to write bad code in COct 07 01:41
mfwittenIt's nice to be able to force optimizationsOct 07 01:41
Diablo-D3pointers, malloc/free, bad math involving either, simply not checking results, etcOct 07 01:41
Diablo-D3mfwitten: nope, it never isOct 07 01:41
mfwittenDiablo-D3: I think it's easy to write really noodly, incomprehensible object hierarchies in JavaOct 07 01:41
Diablo-D3mfwitten: not reallyOct 07 01:42
Diablo-D3its very hard because you have to be rather stoned at the timeOct 07 01:42
cubezzzJava FSM :)Oct 07 01:42
Diablo-D3no useful language will stop you from shooting yourself in the footOct 07 01:42
mfwittenDiablo-D3: The git guys spend a shit load of time discussing the inlining of memcpy and other things. That's why git is so fucking fastOct 07 01:42
Diablo-D3however, any useful language should loudly bitch when you do itOct 07 01:42
Diablo-D3mfwitten: git... is fast?Oct 07 01:42
mfwittenThe java version is at best 1/2 the speedOct 07 01:42
Diablo-D3I mean, I like git, but wtf?Oct 07 01:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Climbs Fast in Mobile, Microsoft ‘Screws’ Badly with Windows Mobile 6.5 http://ping.fm/JDqM2Oct 07 01:44
cubezzzC is good for porting, I'm always seeing itOct 07 01:45
cubezzzall the gnu stuff which I looked at recently tooOct 07 01:46
mfwittenDiablo-D3: C++ at least allows enough abstraction to hide the unsafe stuff.Oct 07 01:46
mfwittenSo why not go with it?Oct 07 01:47
mfwittenI tihnk you'd say the librariesOct 07 01:47
Diablo-D3because I find the syntax disgustingOct 07 01:47
Diablo-D3of the languages I absolutely hate, its at the topOct 07 01:48
mfwittenmehOct 07 01:48
mfwittenJava has only a few differences.Oct 07 01:48
Diablo-D3if you believe that, you need to learn javaOct 07 01:48
mfwittenI know Java. Quite wellOct 07 01:48
mfwitten(or at least I did at one point)Oct 07 01:49
Diablo-D3you seem to have forgottenOct 07 01:49
Diablo-D3or havent used it for awhileOct 07 01:49
cubezzzok, let's say you had to crunch some numbers, integer mathOct 07 01:50
cubezzzwhat would you use?Oct 07 01:50
mfwittenFortranOct 07 01:50
Diablo-D3cubezzz: that question is invalidOct 07 01:50
Diablo-D3it doesnt state what the problem isOct 07 01:50
cubezzznumber of positions in subgroups of rubik's cube sayOct 07 01:51
cubezzzthat's a big spaceOct 07 01:51
mfwittenDiablo-D3: I think you like Java because it makes building huge object hierarchies a consistent task across programmers. However, I've seen a lot of inscrutable Java hierarchies.Oct 07 01:51
Diablo-D3cubezzz: probably javaOct 07 01:51
Diablo-D3cubezzz: or actually, openclOct 07 01:52
mfwittenDiablo-D3: Java wastes a lot of space.Oct 07 01:52
Diablo-D3java wastes very littleOct 07 01:52
mfwittenDiablo-D3: In a computation with lots of data structures, it would probably be too muchOct 07 01:52
Diablo-D3mfwitten: not at allOct 07 01:52
cubezzzThere are java rubik type programs, but I don't know of any number crunching onesOct 07 01:52
mfwittencubezzz: Well, that really says more about Java programmers than Java. However, Sun's Fortress language (is that the name?) is an indication that Java is not good for number-crunchingOct 07 01:53
Diablo-D3like I said, if its something that would benefit from massive parallelism, using cpus is wrong to begin withOct 07 01:54
Diablo-D3which, thankfully, most of the industry is now coming towards this realizationOct 07 01:54
cubezzzNow I'm curious, I'll ask aroundOct 07 01:54
mfwittencubezzz: About what?Oct 07 01:55
cubezzzprogramming for projects using a lot of parallelism, and what langugages are usedOct 07 01:55
Diablo-D3wellOct 07 01:56
mfwittencubezzz: There are languages devoted to that domainOct 07 01:56
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cubezzzthe chess stuff that I saw, old stuff like Cray Blitz, that was COct 07 01:57
cubezzzcrafty is also COct 07 01:57
cubezzzHyatt's work, I'll ask him, not why :)Oct 07 01:58
cubezzzwhy not evenOct 07 01:58
cubezzzat least I think it was C, not 100% sure, crafty was COct 07 01:59
Diablo-D3afkOct 07 02:00
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cubezzzsorry, Fortran for Cray BlitzOct 07 02:00
cubezzzaround the early 1980's for Cray BlitzOct 07 02:01
mfwittenSo.... What have we concluded here?Oct 07 02:05
cubezzzummm :)Oct 07 02:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Not a word about how it's been received, typical BBC / MS splog http://tinyurl.com/yd2n3u8Oct 07 02:07
cubezzzwell, I can certainly remember that Fortran was used a lot in the pastOct 07 02:07
cubezzzmaking things are moving towards Java, Diablo-D3 seems to think soOct 07 02:07
cubezzzall I can say is I see C and C++ everywhereOct 07 02:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] RT @mashable: Facebook Testing Yet Another Homepage Redesign - http://bit.ly/21aYO0 — boo, Facebook! How many redesigns do we need???Oct 07 02:08
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moshe_hey RoyOct 07 02:08
cubezzzmaking=maybeOct 07 02:08
mfwittenI think things are moving toward: Java in the backend and C# in the front endOct 07 02:09
mfwittenFor a lot of COMPANIESOct 07 02:09
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moshe_what distro is the best for up to date eye candy and multimedia?Oct 07 02:09
RuidobrancoHi There Mr. SchestowiczOct 07 02:09
mfwittenFor desktop programmers, C# in proprietary landOct 07 02:09
mfwittenElsewhere, C/C++/PythonOct 07 02:09
moshe_I have an interested friendOct 07 02:09
cubezzzmfwitten, what about Linux-land?Oct 07 02:10
mfwittencubezzz: That's "Elsewhere"Oct 07 02:10
RuidobrancoWell, i saw some photos of the window$ phone...Oct 07 02:10
RuidobrancoSchestowitz i meanOct 07 02:10
RuidobrancoAnd, a disturbing thought raised...Oct 07 02:11
RuidobrancoWhat if it's a Linux below that gui ???Oct 07 02:11
moshe_anyone? good opportunity for advocacy.. I really don't know what to tell this guyOct 07 02:11
RuidobrancoYou see, after the Moblin deals, and deals with LG and Samsung...Oct 07 02:12
RuidobrancoCould this happen ???Oct 07 02:12
moshe_The Verizon deal is a huge win for LinuxOct 07 02:12
moshe_their phones are terribly stodgyOct 07 02:12
moshe_the service is great thoughOct 07 02:12
cubezzzStallman says "don't use cell phones" :)Oct 07 02:13
RuidobrancoHe's rightOct 07 02:13
RuidobrancoCell phones never give good newsOct 07 02:13
moshe_I do agree...too much radiation IMHO...but..you know...Oct 07 02:13
mfwittenmoshe_: Ubuntu probablyOct 07 02:13
moshe_thanksOct 07 02:13
moshe_that's what people are telling meOct 07 02:13
RuidobrancoIt's always: Someone died, your wife is sick, your dog is stranded...Oct 07 02:14
mfwittenmoshe_: Well... that's just the most supported for "newbs" :-)Oct 07 02:14
moshe_that's important..this guy is total noobOct 07 02:14
cubezzzand Morpheus could call tooOct 07 02:14
mfwittenmoshe_: My first GNU/Linux experience was with Gentoo. That's what I personally advise for noobs (no joke)Oct 07 02:15
RuidobrancoGentoo... O.o ...Oct 07 02:15
moshe_Yikes!!! I've done a gentoo quasi stage 2 install, compiled some stuff but not other stuffOct 07 02:15
mfwittenHowever, Arch Linux is my preferred distro for sure nowOct 07 02:15
mfwitten(at least on x86)Oct 07 02:15
moshe_what about Mandriva?Oct 07 02:15
mfwittenI've never used MandriveaOct 07 02:16
moshe_okOct 07 02:16
RuidobrancoWhen it was only Conectiva, it was damn good...Oct 07 02:16
moshe_i go back to Mandrake but not before thatOct 07 02:16
mfwittenAnyway, I'll be afk for a bit.Oct 07 02:17
cubezzzyou can certainly live without a cell phoneOct 07 02:17
cubezzzI don't bother with them myselfOct 07 02:17
RuidobrancoYepOct 07 02:18
moshe_tough these days though...I use a BT ear piece or in the car the BT setup. Better, but still radiationOct 07 02:18
cubezzzI'm always onlineOct 07 02:18
cubezzzInspector Gadget is always on duty :)Oct 07 02:19
cubezzznot to mention my land line is 6 inches awayOct 07 02:19
moshe_yea but you are not typical...many people are ditching their landlinesOct 07 02:20
cubezzzyeah I see microwave towers all over the placeOct 07 02:21
RuidobrancoWell, in Tweeter, the window$ phone made some waves...Oct 07 02:21
moshe_My town had a huge rally to protest a Verizon tower... We won...Oct 07 02:22
cubezzzwell, there's been cases where a homeless guy got cookedOct 07 02:23
cubezzzyou get close enough to the transmitter...Oct 07 02:23
RuidobrancoWell gentlemen, i am calling this a nightOct 07 02:24
RuidobrancoIt was my privilege to be with youOct 07 02:24
RuidobrancoGood night to allOct 07 02:24
RuidobrancoByeOct 07 02:24
cubezzzlaterOct 07 02:24
moshe_Gn all..thanks for the advice!!!!Oct 07 02:24
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Diablo-D3fffffffffffOct 07 02:33
Diablo-D3I just installed craftyOct 07 02:33
Diablo-D3holy shit have I gotten bad at chessOct 07 02:33
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cubezzzcrafty can be toughOct 07 02:35
yuhongOn http://boycottnovell.com/2009/09/14/microsoft-thuggery-running-away/, do you know what news was buried in the news of MS's Hyper-V code contribution?Oct 07 02:36
yuhonghttp://lkml.org/lkml/2009/7/20/425Oct 07 02:36
yuhongPosted only hours after the code contribution, but received almost no coverage.Oct 07 02:37
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ackillieshiOct 07 03:29
cubezzzhelloOct 07 03:31
ackillieswhats upOct 07 03:32
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ackilliesgood to see some canadiansOct 07 03:41
ackillies:)Oct 07 03:41
gmzlj:DOct 07 03:42
ackilliesim from mississauga/bramptonOct 07 03:45
gmzljwaterlooOct 07 03:48
ackilliescoolOct 07 03:49
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] going for gnu/linux tot workshop for DIET teachers.Oct 07 05:36
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Guest87993heh http://www.google.com.au/logos/barcode09.gif scans as GoogleOct 07 05:48
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Was feeling better, woke up with sore throat. Job ints yesterday, today and tomorrow. GO GO GO GO GO GADGET braaaaaaaiiiinnnnsssssssOct 07 07:57
schestowitzhttp://www.prwatch.org/tortreformOct 07 08:04
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schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/07/eolas_browser_microsoft/Oct 07 08:10
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Not recieved any google wave invite yet. some sent, but seems to be lost in the wayOct 07 08:27
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Hmm, £217 for the Amazon kindle. That's shipped from Amazon.com in the USA..Oct 07 08:36
fewa*SwindleOct 07 08:37
schestowitzLinux used for bad purposesOct 07 08:38
fewaThe spirit of GPL violatedOct 07 08:38
fewaGPL2Oct 07 08:38
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @petapixel 10 incredibly ironic photographs: http://j.mp/KWRg3 (the "No Soliciting" one is the winner)Oct 07 08:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FSFE Wants the #European Commission to Stop Microsoft’s #Racketeering http://ping.fm/onyLmOct 07 09:05
schestowitzfewa: yeah, but just the spiritOct 07 09:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] My skirt and stockings are way manly, so this never happens to me http://is.gd/42djX (HT @boctweet)Oct 07 09:14
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Banks Laugh All the Way to the #Microsoft http://ping.fm/ajfyMOct 07 09:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Best Windows 7 review ever http://is.gd/42fam HT @AnthonySteeleOct 07 09:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Microsoft has a long and venerable history of videos to make you lobotomise yourself with a coathanger. Cyber Sitcom: http://is.gd/42g5sOct 07 09:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] How to accidentally throw a furry orgy using Craigslist http://is.gd/42hHGOct 07 09:51
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RichardStallman Explains Why Not #SUSE http://ping.fm/LdRRE #fsf !fsf !gnu #novellOct 07 09:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] interesting - RT @AnthonySteele Thoughts on Silverlight from a flash guy: http://bit.ly/9tFo4Oct 07 09:55
schestowitzNew Advertising Strategy For Newspapers? They Make Great Umbrellas < http://techdirt.com/articles/20091005/0152416419.shtml >Oct 07 10:03
schestowitzA Nobel prize for a Bush critic http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2009/10/05/nobel_prize_for_bush_critic/index.htmlOct 07 10:09
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schestowitzIBM Research jumps into genetic sequencing < http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10368045-264.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20 >Oct 07 10:21
schestowitzWelcome to the European eGovernment Awards 2009 http://www.epractice.eu/en/awardsOct 07 10:23
schestowitzhttp://paidcontent.co.uk/article/419-habbo-hotel-parent-company-sulake-lays-off-40-staff/Oct 07 10:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody Dollar in trouble? Yippie, says the right - http://bit.ly/147sQt excellent analysis #dollar #fiskingOct 07 10:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody The criticism that Ralph Lauren doesn't want you to see! - http://bit.ly/Uwt5SOct 07 10:33
schestowitzGoogle still wants to 'own' people's medical records. This is wrong. http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/fall-update-on-google-health.htmlOct 07 10:33
amarsh04hi Schestowitz, I'm doing a phone conference with Brendan Scott and SFLC people in 12 and three quarter hours' time. Do you know the person who wrote: http://pedrofaustino.blogspot.com/2009/09/d-link-dva-g3170i-gpl-violation.html ?Oct 07 10:43
schestowitzamarsh04: I ping bkuhn about itOct 07 10:44
schestowitz*pinged (yesterday)Oct 07 10:44
amarsh04ah thanksOct 07 10:44
schestowitztrmanco brought it upOct 07 10:44
*amarsh04 should get dinner before the take-aways and supermarkets are closedOct 07 10:44
schestowitzI then posted it in some places like USENET and BN, let SFLC know about it...Oct 07 10:44
amarsh04I would like to know who is supplying the code bundle to router manufacturers without clearly communicating the GPL requirementsOct 07 10:45
amarsh04one of my favoured settlement terms will be GPL compliance stickers shipped out to router owners with a brief statement and URL to the code sourceOct 07 10:46
amarsh04and nice bright car/bumper stickers with a GNU and a Penguin on themOct 07 10:47
schestowitzBishop hardly writes for TechFLash these daysOct 07 10:49
schestowitzMaybe he left, maybe on vacationOct 07 10:49
schestowitzTHe fewer Microsoft-funded fan sites, the betterOct 07 10:49
schestowitzamarsh04: yes, stickers would be niceOct 07 10:49
schestowitzand a gnu-keyOct 07 10:50
amarsh04I remember some cisco wireless access points having vxworks stickers on themOct 07 10:50
schestowitzhttp://identi.ca/notice/11508719Oct 07 10:51
schestowitzhttp://identi.ca/notice/11508840Oct 07 10:51
fewa<schestowitz> New Advertising Strategy For Newspapers? They Make Great Umbrellas < http://techdirt.com/articles/20091005/0152416419.shtml >Oct 07 10:53
fewaLOLOct 07 10:53
amarsh04far more rewarding being constructive... I was really patient with my isp and telstra getting my phone line fixed and now adsl2+ runs greatOct 07 10:54
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/News/Stallman-Challenges-Microsoft-s-CodePlex-Foundation "http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/News/Stallman-Challenges-Microsoft-s-CodePlex-Foundation"Oct 07 10:56
schestowitz"Free Software Foundation's Richard Stallman recently brought Microsoft's newly instituted CodePlex Foundation to task in his blog."Oct 07 10:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Nobody cares about your overhyped technology http://is.gd/42oVmOct 07 10:58
amarsh04back in a few, restarting with kexecOct 07 11:06
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schestowitzHeh. Good article: http://www.cracked.com/article_15716_6-most-overhyped-technologies.htmlOct 07 11:08
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amarsh04interesting what one notices when one actually reads logs/manual pages: new dosfsck 3.0.6 in debian unstable, ionice allows -c3 (idle) priority for non root processes since kernel 2.6.25 - running fetchnews and logcheck with ionice -c3 makes using a slow computer more bearableOct 07 11:17
schestowitz" ill take Stallman ... thank you..! " http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-10-06-021-35-NW-MS-LL-0000Oct 07 11:18
amarsh04afkOct 07 11:21
fewa"rad" still being used in its un-ironic sense at the timeOct 07 11:23
fewayeah that article has great witOct 07 11:23
fewa"on the next generation of all-in-one devices (a cell phone/MP3 player/PDA/taser)."Oct 07 11:25
amarsh04backOct 07 11:34
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fewahttp://www.cracked.com/blog/using-windows-7-may-lead-to-murder/Oct 07 11:46
phIRCeTitle: A Review of the Pirated Copy of Windows 7 I Bought On eBay  | Cracked.com .::. Size~: 185.44 KBOct 07 11:46
trmancohttp://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/10/device-notifier-work-for-44.htmlOct 07 11:54
phIRCeTitle: aseigo: device notifier work for 4.4 .::. Size~: 109.26 KBOct 07 11:54
trmancohttp://aeiou.exameinformatica.pt/windows-65-fez-estreia-mundial-em-portugal=f1003625Oct 07 12:07
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trmancoheys lookOct 07 12:07
trmancoportugal is the first country to ship windows mobile 6.5 ...Oct 07 12:08
fewahttp://www.jawshack.com/pigeonjohndenver.htmOct 07 12:08
phIRCeTitle: The Ballad of Pigeon John Denver .::. Size~: 1.28 KBOct 07 12:08
trmanconobody uses that crap around hereOct 07 12:08
fewahmm, why would you ship in a flunking locality first?Oct 07 12:10
fewacause your desperate for attention?Oct 07 12:10
fewaseems like it would have the opposite effectOct 07 12:10
fewathat you would launch where you have to most support firstOct 07 12:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Wine Addresses #Qt / #KDE Needs http://bit.ly/aLGOSOct 07 12:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Radio Ads Called a "Success" http://bit.ly/23J2sZOct 07 12:13
phIRCeTitle: Linux Today Blog .::. Size~: 82.38 KBOct 07 12:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LondonStockExchange Explains Why It Dumps #Microsoft Architecture for #GNU #Linux http://bit.ly/vD2U3Oct 07 12:15
phIRCeTitle: Why the London Stock Exchange went for Linux | IT PRO .::. Size~: 43.31 KBOct 07 12:15
schestowitzWM 6.5 is a DISASTEROct 07 12:17
schestowitzsee my post from last night, trmancoOct 07 12:17
schestowitzReviewers blast itOct 07 12:17
schestowitzSocrates llllllllluuuuuuuuurves it :-)Oct 07 12:17
trmancookOct 07 12:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #UnityLinux Makes #LiveCD http://bit.ly/1zh5aOOct 07 12:20
phIRCeTitle: LiveCD, Now Developed by Team Unity Linux | Unity Linux .::. Size~: 32.18 KBOct 07 12:20
fewabut what is this love you speak of?Oct 07 12:20
fewaor alternatively llllllllluuuuuuuuurve, is that an english word?Oct 07 12:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat 's Jim Whitehurst among the Carolina's highest paid http://www.charlotteobserver.com/data/story/955499.htmlOct 07 12:22
phIRCeTitle: Top-paid executives in the Carolinas, 2008 - CharlotteObserver.com .::. Size~: 53.76 KBOct 07 12:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] RedHat CEO about software patents, nobody can write software without risking a lawsuit http://i5.be/M3Oct 07 12:23
phIRCeTitle: Video - CNBC.com .::. Size~: 83.28 KBOct 07 12:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu 9.10 Receives Praises from @SJVN http://bit.ly/JtuyJOct 07 12:25
phIRCeTitle: Karmic Koala: The best Ubuntu Linux ever? - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 132.54 KBOct 07 12:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Family Moves to #GNU #Linux and Happy with the Migration http://bit.ly/9eUWzOct 07 12:26
phIRCeTitle: Home of Alvonsius » Ubuntu Jaunty Jackalope on Lenovo G450 .::. Size~: 27.37 KBOct 07 12:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #Linux #SDK Delivered by #Novatel Wireless http://bit.ly/HlRxqOct 07 12:27
phIRCeTitle: Mobile hotspot gains full Linux SDK - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 62.01 KBOct 07 12:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] $8 Microprocessors Target #Linux http://bit.ly/KGpizOct 07 12:28
phIRCeTitle: $8 ARM chip touted for DDR2 support - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 61.57 KBOct 07 12:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] What is a browser? http://post.ly/7aTpOct 07 12:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Video: What is a browser? http://tumblr.com/xkj3f0v17Oct 07 12:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Palm Continues Fighting with #Apple Over Interoperability http://bit.ly/1i4n0w #usb #badappleOct 07 12:32
phIRCeTitle: trmanco's tumblr &mdash; What is a browser? .::. Size~: 8 KBOct 07 12:32
phIRCeTitle: Palm Pre re-re-introduces iTunes synchronization • The Register .::. Size~: 22.55 KBOct 07 12:32
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GIMP Adds 'Photosh0p'-like #GUI as an Option http://bit.ly/15ZA45Oct 07 12:38
phIRCeTitle: Martin Nordholts' GIMP Blog: Single-window mode progress report .::. Size~: 38.03 KBOct 07 12:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Firefox to Keep an Eye on Malicious #Proprietary Blobs Attached to It http://bit.ly/3dGHieOct 07 12:39
phIRCeTitle:  Mozilla augments Firefox's plug-in check .::. Size~: 130.2 KBOct 07 12:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #EFF Defends Protester, Awards Freedom Activists http://bit.ly/6xb0z http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2009/10/05Oct 07 12:45
phIRCeTitle: Man Arrested for Twittering Goes to Court, EFF Has the Documents | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 16.49 KBOct 07 12:45
phIRCeTitle: Hardware Hacker, E-Voting Investigator, and Public Domain Advocate Win Pioneer Awards | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 15.9 KBOct 07 12:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 'Charity Killer' Intel Undermines Free/Open Source Second Life http://bit.ly/4xmY2fOct 07 12:46
phIRCeTitle: New World Notes: Intel Promotes Its OpenSim Project as "3D Internet" (Second Life Not Included) .::. Size~: 65.2 KBOct 07 12:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Police Refusing to Defend Poor Censorship, More Draconian #Laws Coming http://bit.ly/iZpWV http://bit.ly/d93ccOct 07 12:48
phIRCeTitle: Cambridgeshire cops get coy with FOI • The Register .::. Size~: 24.5 KBOct 07 12:48
phIRCeTitle: Memo - Amendment 138: Debunking the Council's arguments | La Quadrature du Net .::. Size~: 34.7 KBOct 07 12:48
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trmancohttp://searchengineland.com/google-passes-71-market-share-in-latest-hitwise-survey-27354Oct 07 12:50
phIRCeTitle: Google Passes 71% Market Share In Latest Hitwise Survey .::. Size~: 38.08 KBOct 07 12:50
trmancopoor bungOct 07 12:50
trmancobing*Oct 07 12:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Shown for Their Ridiculousness http://bit.ly/BlPo8Oct 07 12:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] 5 Powerful WYSIWYG editors for web-based applications http://post.ly/7ab1Oct 07 12:54
phIRCeTitle: Against Monopoly  .::. Size~: 38.61 KBOct 07 12:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Success Reached by Resisting -- Not Supporting -- #IntellectualMonopolies http://techdirt.com/articles/20091005/1003016425.shtmlOct 07 12:55
phIRCeTitle: Another Author Notes That Giving Away His Book Increased Sales | Techdirt .::. Size~: 31.92 KBOct 07 12:55
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schestowitzfewa: it's how the Inquirer says "loves".. "luuuurves"Oct 07 12:58
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schestowitzMutxOct 07 12:58
MinceRso i herd u liek mudkipsOct 07 12:59
oiaohmhttp://www.itnews.com.au/News/157555,afact-claims-100k-copyright-breaches-on-iinet.aspx  Hmm testing reaches of save harbor.Oct 07 13:04
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzOct 07 13:06
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] I still haven't received my Google Wave invite :|Oct 07 13:07
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*phIRCe sets ban on zzlg!*@*Oct 07 13:09
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DaemonFCI'm still not deadOct 07 13:11
DaemonFCwhere's MinceR? I'm sure he'll be thrilledOct 07 13:11
oiaohm? DaemonFC what is that aboutOct 07 13:13
DaemonFCmy PC did go out howeverOct 07 13:14
DaemonFCoiaohm: two seizures last SundayOct 07 13:14
DaemonFCone in the shower, one in the emergency roomOct 07 13:14
oiaohmOk that is not good DaemonFCOct 07 13:15
DaemonFCthey did a CAT scan and all they found was a bad sinus infection, so they gave me antibiotics and sent me to follow up with my doctor, who ordered an EEGOct 07 13:15
DaemonFCthat's tomorrowOct 07 13:15
oiaohmCould be the infection.Oct 07 13:15
oiaohmIe the toxins from the infection.Oct 07 13:16
DaemonFCneither doctor thought soOct 07 13:16
DaemonFCI did askOct 07 13:16
oiaohmIt is rareOct 07 13:16
DaemonFCI still have bruises all over my arms from tensing upOct 07 13:16
oiaohmBut does happen.Oct 07 13:16
DaemonFCthe ER doctor was an assholeOct 07 13:16
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DaemonFCgrrrOct 07 13:17
DaemonFCanyway, I asked the ER doctor for pain pills and he wouldn't give me anythingOct 07 13:17
DaemonFCso my grandmother gave me a bottle of DarvocetsOct 07 13:17
oiaohmYou cannot have pain pills after seizures or should not.Oct 07 13:18
DaemonFCoh hell with thatOct 07 13:18
oiaohmBecause pain pills can make seizures worse if you have them.Oct 07 13:18
DaemonFCI was taking 2 Darvocets every 4 hours and sometimes a couple of naproxen sodiumOct 07 13:18
DaemonFCthe pain was worse than getting my wisdom teeth removed, getting my tonsils removed, and everything else I've ever been through combinedOct 07 13:19
oiaohmDaemonFC: Iittle presure point that does take out some pain.   The bone that goes from wrist to little finger find the middle of that and press lined up in the gap to the next finger.Oct 07 13:19
DaemonFCanyway, it's tolerable with just a couple naproxen sodium a couple times a day nowOct 07 13:20
oiaohmopps next bone that the next finger is connected to.Oct 07 13:20
DaemonFCI woke up this morning and didn't even need any pain pillsOct 07 13:20
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DaemonFCas for the PC, I don't think I'll be buying Intel stuff againOct 07 13:21
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omarHi all.Oct 07 13:21
DaemonFCI didn't have anything but bad luck with my last two Intel motherboardsOct 07 13:21
omarDaemonFC, okOct 07 13:21
DaemonFCI ordered a Phenom II X4 2.6 Ghz system this week B-)Oct 07 13:22
trmancohahaOct 07 13:22
DaemonFCthat should spank that Core 2 Duo I hadOct 07 13:22
trmancoAMD?Oct 07 13:22
DaemonFCyesOct 07 13:22
trmancocoolOct 07 13:22
DaemonFCnever had an AMD system die inexplicablyOct 07 13:22
trmancohow many cores?Oct 07 13:22
DaemonFCI've had a few Intel systems die within 1-2 yearsOct 07 13:23
trmancophysical coresOct 07 13:23
DaemonFCtrmanco: 4Oct 07 13:23
oiaohmDaemonFC: I know of sinus infections causing sesures from the people in the wood industry here.    Particular trees from particular areas have bacterias and fungus that are nasty.Oct 07 13:23
DaemonFCoiaohm: I'm trying not to let the DMV find out, they'd take away my driver's license for a yearOct 07 13:24
DaemonFCthis system comes with a RadeonHD 4350, but I think the Geforce 9500GT from my old system would be a better cardOct 07 13:25
oiaohmI guess you are not a wood turner on anything that could come into contact with the set of bacterias and fungus I know DaemonFC.Oct 07 13:25
DaemonFCbenchmarks seem to suggest that anywayOct 07 13:25
omarOkay people, I attended the Microsloth ceremony earlier this morning, and I must say.. I'm getting pissed.Oct 07 13:25
DaemonFCoiaohm: nopeOct 07 13:25
DaemonFComar: This system qualifies for the Windows 7 upgradeOct 07 13:25
omarAll they talked about is "Marketing". Nothing more.Oct 07 13:26
omarDaemonFC, what?Oct 07 13:26
DaemonFCif this runs as smooth as the XP to Vista Express Crapfest I should be on Windows 7 in 6-8 weeksOct 07 13:26
DaemonFC:POct 07 13:26
oiaohmDaemonFC: check you house for fungus and other bad things DaemonFC Just in case.   You could be just the weakest one in your house to it.Oct 07 13:26
DaemonFCoiaohm: nobody has lived in the apartment building as long as I haveOct 07 13:27
DaemonFCI moved in in January 2007Oct 07 13:27
omarSo where's Roy? Is he away?Oct 07 13:27
oiaohmSo the building was new in 2007 ?Oct 07 13:27
DaemonFCnopeOct 07 13:27
DaemonFCpeople move in and out like crazyOct 07 13:27
DaemonFCnew tenant moved in last weekOct 07 13:27
DaemonFChas all these Jesus and Mary statues out on the deck, ickOct 07 13:28
DaemonFCCatholicsOct 07 13:28
oiaohmSo that building could have everything.Oct 07 13:28
DaemonFCshe's in for a big surprise when I move back inOct 07 13:28
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DaemonFCmy landlord fixed it up, he's not a slumlordOct 07 13:28
DaemonFChe did get it at auction from one thoughOct 07 13:29
DaemonFCin pretty rough shapeOct 07 13:29
DaemonFCthe doctors have no idea what's wrong with me, aside from being about 30 pounds overweight all their tests say I'm in great shapeOct 07 13:30
oiaohmbateria and fugus toxin exposure.  Depend on what you are exposed to can give no sign in blood work.Oct 07 13:31
DaemonFCso they poke and prod and hook up their electrodesOct 07 13:31
DaemonFCscalpels and leechesOct 07 13:31
DaemonFCamazing how little they still know about how the body worksOct 07 13:31
oiaohmReally its not humans are really complex machines.Oct 07 13:32
oiaohmLiving in a world even more complex.Oct 07 13:32
omaroiaohm, I felt really sad to find my friends and colleagues being merely indoctrinated and made soldiers..!Oct 07 13:33
DaemonFCI don't believe in "intelligent design" because I think an omnipotent being could do a hell of a lot better than a frail body littered with legacy organs and vestigial teethOct 07 13:33
DaemonFCwhich gets sick and is frail and lives between 0-100 yearsOct 07 13:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] NY man arrested house raided for twittering police orders @democracynow interview http://ur1.ca/d3zq ct docs http://ur1.ca/d042 #policestateOct 07 13:34
oiaohmI have releation who works for wood working company.  He got like what you had.   But they tested the infection up nose to find out what it was and yep and it was like ok crap there is the problem.  Nothing else was wrong.Oct 07 13:34
phIRCeTitle: Twitter Crackdown: NYC Activist Arrested for Using Social Networking Site during G-20 Protest in Pittsburgh .::. Size~: 46.67 KBOct 07 13:34
phIRCeTitle: Man Arrested for Twittering Goes to Court, EFF Has the Documents | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 16.49 KBOct 07 13:34
DaemonFCthe human body is a piss poor argument for belief in a godOct 07 13:34
omarDaemonFC, who doesn't leave within 0-100 years?Oct 07 13:34
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oiaohmEvolution and Believing in god is not counter.Oct 07 13:35
omarDaemonFC, I don't get it.Oct 07 13:35
omaroiaohm, it is.Oct 07 13:35
DaemonFComar: So where in your bible or whatever does it explain the appendix, the tonsils, the wisdom teeth.....Oct 07 13:35
oiaohmEvolution has a non explained random factor.Oct 07 13:35
omaroiaohm, Richard Dawkens declared it.Oct 07 13:35
DaemonFCthe sewage treatment plant installed next to the recreational facilitiesOct 07 13:35
DaemonFC(Robin Williams joke)Oct 07 13:35
oiaohmCreater of Evolution was a christian who died a christian.Oct 07 13:36
omarDaemonFC, science and religion are not counter.Oct 07 13:36
DaemonFCyes they areOct 07 13:36
DaemonFCnight and day, totally irreconcilableOct 07 13:36
omarDaemonFC, not they're not.Oct 07 13:36
DaemonFCevolution cannot coexist with creationOct 07 13:36
omarDaemonFC, read the Holy Quran first and then come and argue about it.Oct 07 13:36
DaemonFCbecause if we were created as-is, then we wouldn't have evolvedOct 07 13:36
omarDaemonFC, it talked in detail about how humans are created.Oct 07 13:37
oiaohmReally it can DaemonFCOct 07 13:37
DaemonFCand if evolution was steered in a predetermined path, it's not evolutionOct 07 13:37
omarDaemonFC, the levels of maternity.Oct 07 13:37
DaemonFCand god would be screwing with usOct 07 13:37
oiaohmHow do we know what is random DaemonFCOct 07 13:37
oiaohmWe are not a big enough creature to know.Oct 07 13:37
omarDaemonFC, evolution is a lie.Oct 07 13:37
oiaohmOk powerful enough creature to know.Oct 07 13:38
DaemonFComar: Your god is all knowing and all powerful, knows everything before it happens, right?Oct 07 13:38
omarDaemonFC, yes.Oct 07 13:38
oiaohmevolution is not a lie.Oct 07 13:38
DaemonFCso how could he not know what would result if he started evolution?Oct 07 13:38
omaroiaohm, it is.Oct 07 13:38
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oiaohmWho says god does not have a machine to control things omarOct 07 13:38
omarDaemonFC, he didn't start evolution.Oct 07 13:38
DaemonFCoiaohm: Apparently god outsourced to an Indian call centerOct 07 13:39
omaroiaohm, he doesn't need a machine.Oct 07 13:39
oiaohmAnd the study of evolution is not just study of that machine.Oct 07 13:39
DaemonFCthat explains the success rate of prayerOct 07 13:39
oiaohmHow do you know omarOct 07 13:39
omarDaemonFC, quit sarcasm to be ignored, please.Oct 07 13:39
oiaohmNo where does any book say god did everything directly.Oct 07 13:39
DaemonFCoiaohm: Yeah it didOct 07 13:39
omaroiaohm, in the Quran.Oct 07 13:39
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DaemonFCit says that he created Earth and everything in 7 daysOct 07 13:40
omaroiaohm, he says: "be" and it is.Oct 07 13:40
DaemonFCand with wordsOct 07 13:40
bozo_Who created God?Oct 07 13:40
omarDaemonFC, not 7.Oct 07 13:40
omarDaemonFC, 6.Oct 07 13:40
DaemonFCbozo_: People created godOct 07 13:40
oiaohmYou creat a cup on a lathe.  You created cup DaemonFCOct 07 13:40
DaemonFCpeople want there to be a god so they can justify all kinds of wickednessOct 07 13:40
oiaohmNo book says that he did it 100 percent independant.Oct 07 13:40
omarbozo_, ok wait. let me put it this way. When you write a computer program, does it know who created you?Oct 07 13:40
omaroiaohm, the Quran does that.Oct 07 13:41
DaemonFComar: Bad exampleOct 07 13:41
omaroiaohm, the Quran says that.Oct 07 13:41
omarDaemonFC, I wasn't talking to you.Oct 07 13:41
oiaohmThe words again omarOct 07 13:41
oiaohmHe commands something to be.Oct 07 13:41
DaemonFCa computer program isn't self aware or intelligent, it doesn't get happy or sadOct 07 13:41
omaroiaohm, "Be" and it is.Oct 07 13:41
DaemonFCit just does whatever it was made to doOct 07 13:41
DaemonFCno more or lessOct 07 13:41
oiaohmJust like you commanding the computer in frount of you omarOct 07 13:41
oiaohmThe words don't say there is not a machine helping god.Oct 07 13:42
omaroiaohm, not true.Oct 07 13:42
oiaohmIts true omar read closer.Oct 07 13:42
DaemonFCoiaohm: Yes, the Great Machine on Epsilon IIIOct 07 13:42
omaroiaohm, I use my hands. God doesn't use his hands in creating you.Oct 07 13:42
omaroiaohm, he doesn't even need that.Oct 07 13:42
oiaohmNo where says he has to do it directly omarOct 07 13:43
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_MachineOct 07 13:43
phIRCeTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 07 13:43
oiaohmIts a very big presume that god cannot just tweek a random here and there and get the results he wants.Oct 07 13:43
omaroiaohm, here's list of the places in the Quran where "Be and it is" is mentioned.Oct 07 13:43
oiaohmbe and it is does not mean as much as you take it.Oct 07 13:43
omaroiaohm, did you read the Holy Quran?Oct 07 13:43
oiaohmyes and buddhist and christian works as well.Oct 07 13:44
DaemonFCit would be nice if one religion held the official stupidity patentOct 07 13:44
DaemonFCwould help you remember who the idiots wereOct 07 13:44
omaroiaohm, you are using your imagination my friend. That's the biggest mistake your committing.Oct 07 13:44
bozo_Prior Knowledge DaemonFCOct 07 13:44
oiaohmno omarOct 07 13:44
omarDaemonFC, ok then that's it. Get lost.Oct 07 13:44
DaemonFCor else?Oct 07 13:45
DaemonFC:)Oct 07 13:45
oiaohmBiggest mistake you are making is presuming that a book written to be simplifed for people to understand will cover exactly the method a all power person can do things.Oct 07 13:45
oiaohmBeing all powerful means random is not random.Oct 07 13:46
DaemonFCoiaohm: We're not the simpleton cave dwellers or medieval morons, even the most backwards, deeply religious people have some modern scientific understandingOct 07 13:46
DaemonFCwhen do we get the intermediate study manual from god?Oct 07 13:46
omaroiaohm, Quran is not really a book of Science.Oct 07 13:46
oiaohmAnything that still has a random factor in it can have god controling it.Oct 07 13:46
omaroiaohm, it's a book of belief. A book of faith. When it talks about science, it's only doing that to prove to you that your God exists and you have to believe in him.Oct 07 13:47
oiaohmEvolution just allows understanding of the limits of framework god is working in.Oct 07 13:47
DaemonFComar: your religious arguments fall apart when it's obvious that the dumbed down books like the Christian bible or the Qur'an or what have your are like giving a 6th grader 1st grade study materialOct 07 13:47
DaemonFCwhere's god? where the hell is the new manual? asleep at the wheel is he?Oct 07 13:48
DaemonFC*what have youOct 07 13:48
oiaohmReally the more we understand about the limits the less god can do without making it show as hang on that was impossiable.Oct 07 13:49
DaemonFCmaybe if religion doesn't blow us up or slow us down to where we still can't fend off the next asteroid impact we'll solve death in the next 1,000 yearsOct 07 13:49
DaemonFCand colonize other planetsOct 07 13:49
oiaohmSolving death is getting closer DaemonFCOct 07 13:50
DaemonFCthat's the only way that humans will ever be immortalOct 07 13:50
oiaohmBut I don't think that will be a good day.Oct 07 13:50
DaemonFCoiaohm: I think that we'll shed these bodies and live on as androidsOct 07 13:50
oiaohmWho really wants to live for ever DaemonFCOct 07 13:50
DaemonFCindefinitelyOct 07 13:50
DaemonFCI wouldOct 07 13:50
oiaohmWith some of the most annoying people on earth.Oct 07 13:51
oiaohmAlso being immortal to drive you up wall.Oct 07 13:51
DaemonFCwell, oiaohm, I see it this wayOct 07 13:51
DaemonFCat least if we could become androids, we could continue to existOct 07 13:51
DaemonFCas is, we die, we rot away, and that's all we ever were or will beOct 07 13:51
oiaohmandroids don't last for ever.Oct 07 13:52
oiaohmEach time you were copied you could degrade.Oct 07 13:52
DaemonFCthey could be repairedOct 07 13:52
oiaohmSo you will die at some point.Oct 07 13:52
DaemonFClosing an arm? have a new one tomorrowOct 07 13:52
oiaohmLose you mind DaemonFC?Oct 07 13:53
DaemonFCnopeOct 07 13:53
oiaohmNot quite as simple to replace.Oct 07 13:53
oiaohmIe damage.Oct 07 13:53
oiaohmThe nature of the real world.Oct 07 13:53
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DaemonFCnot until I die or am damaged by old ageOct 07 13:53
oiaohmOld age will still get a machine.Oct 07 13:53
DaemonFCwhy would you degrade? If a consciousness is being copied, they could verify the transfer\Oct 07 13:54
oiaohmJust it will extend out to like a few 1000 years.Oct 07 13:54
DaemonFCmaybe even take backups of youOct 07 13:54
oiaohmCoping errors.Oct 07 13:54
oiaohmAnd media errorsOct 07 13:54
DaemonFC1,000 years from now?Oct 07 13:54
oiaohmYep.Oct 07 13:54
DaemonFCAre we still going to be PCs and Macs?Oct 07 13:55
bozo_yes, just wash you through a lossy compression algorithm a few times :)Oct 07 13:55
DaemonFCjust for real this timeOct 07 13:55
oiaohmThat is the other issue.Oct 07 13:55
oiaohmYou would have to learn many techs many times over DaemonFCOct 07 13:55
DaemonFCso?Oct 07 13:55
oiaohmMore data more risk.Oct 07 13:56
DaemonFChow is that different from relearning new computer hardware every few years now?Oct 07 13:56
oiaohmThat does collect up. DaemonFCOct 07 13:56
oiaohmI do try avoiding learning that stuff.Oct 07 13:56
DaemonFCspeaking of which, I can't believe that system I ordered has FirewireOct 07 13:56
DaemonFCI thought that was dying offOct 07 13:56
oiaohmFirewire does have some advantages.Oct 07 13:57
DaemonFCI've still never used a Firewire device, everything is USBOct 07 13:57
oiaohmLike being fully network supporting.Oct 07 13:57
oiaohmwhere USB is not.Oct 07 13:57
DaemonFCnot even USB 3.0?Oct 07 13:57
oiaohmNot even USB 3.0Oct 07 13:57
DaemonFCheh, USB 3 has faster transfer than Firewire though, right?Oct 07 13:58
oiaohmCurrently yes DaemonFCOct 07 13:58
oiaohmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1394_interface#Future_enhancements_.28including_P1394d.29  But there are upgrades planed for firewire.Oct 07 13:59
phIRCeTitle: IEEE 1394 interface - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 101.43 KBOct 07 13:59
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DaemonFCoiaohm: Do you think I should use the RadeonHD 4350 or just get rid of it and salvage the Geforce 9500 GT?Oct 07 13:59
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DaemonFCI've looked at the two and the Geforce seems about a third faster and fully OpenGL 3.1 compliantOct 07 13:59
DaemonFCthe Radeon only supports OpenGL 2.0Oct 07 13:59
DaemonFCI may have to try it out myself :POct 07 14:00
DaemonFCI haven't used an ATI card in years, like 6 years, unless you count that stupid laptopOct 07 14:00
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenom_II#FeaturesOct 07 14:01
phIRCeTitle: Phenom II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 47.56 KBOct 07 14:01
DaemonFCroflOct 07 14:01
oiaohmOn Linux I would say salvage the Geforce and keep the randeonHD for when drivers get better.Oct 07 14:01
DaemonFCCool 'n Quiet is now applied to the processor as a whole, rather than on a per-core basis. This was done in order to address the mishandling of threads by Windows Vista, which can cause single-threaded applications to run on a core that is idling at half its clock rate.Oct 07 14:01
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DaemonFCoiaohm: XFX makes some nice Geforce cardsOct 07 14:02
DaemonFCthey overclock them tooOct 07 14:02
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oiaohmUnless Nvidia changes there path.  The ATI card could end up the most stable one to use in time on Linux.Oct 07 14:03
DaemonFCthe standard 9500 GT might have GDDR2 RAM and a 500 Mhz clockOct 07 14:03
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oiaohmJust the drivers for Linux are not there yet.Oct 07 14:03
DaemonFCXFX 9500 GT has GDDR3 and a 600 Mhz clockOct 07 14:03
oiaohmSounds good DaemonFCOct 07 14:03
DaemonFCand it was the same priceOct 07 14:03
oiaohmUntil you wake up to something.   Lot of the are the same chip.Oct 07 14:04
oiaohmRunning at different speeds.Oct 07 14:04
oiaohmSo what ends up happening is you have traded life of chip for speed.Oct 07 14:04
DaemonFCNvidia leaves si much wiggle room in what you can call a Geforce, even with the same model designation, that XFX is usually at least 10-15% faster than the reference cardOct 07 14:05
DaemonFC*soOct 07 14:05
oiaohmAnd about 1/3 of the life of one not pushed up 10 to 15 percent.Oct 07 14:05
DaemonFCreally the only things slowing me down were the Core 2 Duo 1.86 Ghz and the DDR2 667 RAMOct 07 14:06
oiaohmWiggle room does not make it good to Wiggle.Oct 07 14:06
DaemonFCthis new system should kick assOct 07 14:06
trmancohttp://www.builderau.com.au/news/soa/RailCorp-wrestles-with-Conficker/0,339028227,339298913,00.htm?feed=rssOct 07 14:06
phIRCeTitle: RailCorp wrestles with Conficker - News -  Builder AU .::. Size~: 56.35 KBOct 07 14:06
DaemonFCoiaohm: I've never had problems with XFXOct 07 14:06
DaemonFCI've bought several cards from themOct 07 14:06
oiaohmFull life of a reference Nvidia card is 10 years.Oct 07 14:06
trmancohttp://www.builderau.com.au/news/soa/VMware-hits-back-at-Microsoft-cost-criticism-/0,339028227,339298918,00.htm?feed=rssOct 07 14:06
DaemonFCMSI and PNY Geforce cards are what to avoidOct 07 14:06
phIRCeTitle: VMware hits back at Microsoft cost criticism  - News -  Builder AU .::. Size~: 57.27 KBOct 07 14:07
DaemonFCstock speed and still may melt downOct 07 14:07
DaemonFCI had an MSI Geforce where the fan meltedOct 07 14:07
DaemonFC:POct 07 14:07
oiaohmPoor fan.Oct 07 14:07
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DaemonFCthe other dirty trick is overselling PSUsOct 07 14:08
trmancohttp://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139065/Microsoft_EU_reach_accord_on_antitrust?source=rss_newsOct 07 14:08
phIRCeTitle:  Microsoft, EU reach accord on antitrust .::. Size~: 127.3 KBOct 07 14:08
DaemonFClike those outfits that sell 550 watt PSU and then in little print (55% efficiency)Oct 07 14:08
trmancoI've already read a lie in that articleOct 07 14:08
trmanco"the operating system running over 95 percent of the world's personal computers."Oct 07 14:09
DaemonFCyou're better off with the 300 watt 90% efficiency PSU you got with the systemOct 07 14:09
trmancothis guys should get his numbers updatedOct 07 14:09
trmancoguy*Oct 07 14:09
oiaohmNote there is no card on the market of Nvidias that matches the reference in heat sinks and other key parts to make it last.Oct 07 14:09
oiaohmAt the same clock speed.Oct 07 14:09
oiaohmReference Nvidia cards are nice to handle.Oct 07 14:09
Omar871trmanco: I got really sad today at the Microsoft festival.Oct 07 14:09
trmanco?Oct 07 14:09
trmancolaunch party?Oct 07 14:10
Omar871trmanco: not really.Oct 07 14:10
trmancohttp://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139038/Bing_slips_Google_inches_ahead_in_search_war?source=rss_newsOct 07 14:10
phIRCeTitle:  Bing slips, Google inches ahead in search war .::. Size~: 131.59 KBOct 07 14:10
Omar871trmanco: just a "Marketing Campaign"Oct 07 14:10
trmancololOct 07 14:10
Omar871trmanco: what pissed me off is how my friends and colleagues were turned into soldiers to push that campaign to the rest of the Jordanian youth.Oct 07 14:11
trmancogive'me a slapOct 07 14:11
trmancoand tell them to wake up into the real worldOct 07 14:12
trmancogive'em*Oct 07 14:12
Omar871trmanco: All they talked about is "Vista 7", "MS Surfish", "Imagine Cuff", "Silverblight"... blah blah blah...Oct 07 14:13
trmancooh surfaceOct 07 14:13
Omar871trmanco: they're hypnotized.Oct 07 14:13
trmancoas I saidOct 07 14:13
trmancogive them a slapOct 07 14:13
Omar871trmanco: yeah, I tried.Oct 07 14:13
trmancoask a chick to do itOct 07 14:14
Omar871trmanco: and that's also why I need Roy's journalistic expertise here.Oct 07 14:14
oiaohmOmar871: best question.  So lets infect windows and just with what MS provides nothing else be online inside 5 mins to ask for assistance.Oct 07 14:14
Omar871trmanco: there was that girl who bragged about being a "Microsoft girl", or whatever.Oct 07 14:15
trmancoah geezeOct 07 14:15
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trmanco...Oct 07 14:15
oiaohmLinux livecd you can be on line in 15 min.Oct 07 14:15
Omar871oiaohm: I don't get it.Oct 07 14:15
oiaohmNo problems.Oct 07 14:15
DaemonFCI've never installed Silverlight, even in WindowsOct 07 14:15
oiaohm5 no wories.Oct 07 14:15
Omar871oiaohm: you mean seconds.Oct 07 14:15
oiaohmExactly.Oct 07 14:15
oiaohmWindows no livecd out box.Oct 07 14:15
Omar871oiaohm: I just installed Karmic last night. I am still amazing by how thunder fast it is!!!Oct 07 14:16
oiaohmIts slow Omar871Oct 07 14:16
Omar871oiaohm: no it's not.Oct 07 14:16
oiaohmSeriously.Oct 07 14:16
oiaohmThere are still major faults slowing it down.Oct 07 14:16
Omar871oiaohm: seriously, it's not.Oct 07 14:16
oiaohmNext one after Karmic is going to be a lot faster again.Oct 07 14:16
DaemonFCoiaohm: I noticed Bertelsmann will be handling my Windows 7 upgrade order through HPOct 07 14:16
Omar871oiaohm: I booted it up in less than 15 seconds, really.Oct 07 14:17
DaemonFCthey make you use IE to access the siteOct 07 14:17
Omar871oiaohm: it's just plain incredible.Oct 07 14:17
oiaohmunder 10 will be the next 1 Omar871Oct 07 14:17
oiaohmAnd maybe under 5 for the one after.Oct 07 14:17
oiaohmBut transfer rates are going to be a problem there.Oct 07 14:17
Omar871oiaohm: That's great. But the guy at the MS Fest says his Vista 7 installation boots up in 32 seconds.. :DOct 07 14:18
Omar871oiaohm: and he counts that "Fast"!!! :DOct 07 14:18
Omar871LOL!Oct 07 14:18
oiaohmYep a iceage compared to Linux.Oct 07 14:18
Omar871oiaohm: Exactly!Oct 07 14:18
DaemonFCOmar87: it booted faster than that on my old core 2 duo with 4 gigs of RAMOct 07 14:18
DaemonFC:POct 07 14:18
Omar871oiaohm: he lied about Vista 7 being designed for Netbooks.Oct 07 14:19
DaemonFCI suspect it'll be hellaciously fast on the Phenom II X4 :)Oct 07 14:19
oiaohmThen to those that say boot times don't matter.  Point them to this.  http://citp.princeton.edu/memory/  You cannot use disk encryption and suspend to ram.Oct 07 14:20
DaemonFCof course, what wouldn't be?Oct 07 14:20
phIRCeTitle: Center for Information Technology Policy    » Lest We Remember: Cold Boot Attacks on Encryption Keys .::. Size~: 8.98 KBOct 07 14:20
Omar871oiaohm: he didn't mention the fact that the age of XP was extended for four more years!Oct 07 14:20
DaemonFCoiaohm: my mom was considering buying an XP-based netbookOct 07 14:20
DaemonFCI told her to hold off or else she'd get an 8 year old OSOct 07 14:21
oiaohmI got invited to one.  By the end of it I had made more sales of support contracts with my firm than the guy hosting it Omar871Oct 07 14:21
DaemonFCeven I wouldn't recommend a netbook that has XPOct 07 14:21
Omar871oiaohm: lolOct 07 14:21
Omar871oiaohm: what is your firm?Oct 07 14:21
Omar871oiaohm: I'll have to learn that lesson from you. :)Oct 07 14:21
DaemonFCoiaohm: You watch, they'll start putting 2 gigs of RAM in the Windows 7 modelsOct 07 14:22
oiaohmJust a small local support firm.Oct 07 14:22
DaemonFCsilentlyOct 07 14:22
Omar871oiaohm: however, one thing that made it clear to me that they're scared of us, is that they didn't give chance for questions.Oct 07 14:22
bozo_Did anyone else notice the Bilski case mentions on the Newhour PBS show day before yesterday ?Oct 07 14:22
oiaohmYes I upset them with information on ram failure rates as well.Oct 07 14:22
oiaohmBecause they said why is low ram important.Oct 07 14:22
oiaohmBecause the more ram sticks you have the high the odds the system will fail.Oct 07 14:23
DaemonFCI wouldn't want to use Vista with less than 4 gigs or 7 with less than 2 gigsOct 07 14:23
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Omar871oiaohm: becausce, clearly if they did, someone like me would pop up out of thin air and topple the whole campaign over their heads.Oct 07 14:23
DaemonFClowball for Linux with KDE 4.3 would be about 1 GBOct 07 14:23
DaemonFCbut RAM is so cheap you might as well just fill all the slots just to have itOct 07 14:24
oiaohmI have run KDE 4.3 quite well at 512 megs.Oct 07 14:24
oiaohmBut getting 512 sticks is basically impossible.Oct 07 14:24
DaemonFCI should hope soOct 07 14:24
oiaohmRam cheep down time caused by machine failure not cheep.Oct 07 14:25
DaemonFCwell, RAM is $9 a gig, so the argument is mootOct 07 14:25
DaemonFCbuy all you canOct 07 14:25
oiaohmNo it is not.Oct 07 14:25
oiaohmReliable system and fast to diagnose.Oct 07 14:25
DaemonFCI bought it for $9 a gig and got free shippingOct 07 14:25
oiaohmLess parts the better.Oct 07 14:25
oiaohmSo 1 ram stick 1 cpu 1 harddrive.  Lot simpler to debug.Oct 07 14:26
DaemonFCthe games!!!!! :POct 07 14:26
oiaohmThe most expensive part is not the parts.Oct 07 14:26
oiaohmIts the cost to business of having techs fix it.Oct 07 14:27
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oiaohmYes gamers don't care about there machines being dependable.Oct 07 14:27
oiaohmOverclocking ....  Basically we sell dollar signs when they come in.Oct 07 14:28
DaemonFCoiaohm: any system out there will do 90% of what I wantOct 07 14:30
DaemonFCit's that other 10%Oct 07 14:31
oiaohmDoing relieble systems is different to doing high performing.Oct 07 14:31
oiaohmthey are 2 100 percent different cats to me.Oct 07 14:32
DaemonFCAMD stuff is reliableOct 07 14:32
oiaohmMost AMD stuff.Oct 07 14:32
oiaohmYou still get the bad batches.Oct 07 14:32
oiaohmOr what is really wrong the box send that the fork lift put its forks threw.Oct 07 14:32
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DaemonFCI still have an 11 year old K6/2 550 that worksOct 07 14:33
DaemonFC:)Oct 07 14:33
oiaohmSo the motherboard is just fragements.Oct 07 14:33
DaemonFCI think that speaks for themOct 07 14:33
oiaohmAthlon XP was AMD lemon.Oct 07 14:33
DaemonFCskipped itOct 07 14:33
DaemonFCwent for the Athlon64Oct 07 14:33
oiaohmSame here.Oct 07 14:33
DaemonFCsomething about the AthlonXP reeked of bad design the moment I saw itOct 07 14:34
oiaohmAthlonXP is overclocking to the extream.Oct 07 14:35
oiaohmJust done by the chip maker.Oct 07 14:35
oiaohmIt chip design was from the same style as pent 3 that sanely stoped just over the 1 ghz.Oct 07 14:35
oiaohmIe design good just pushed past limits DaemonFCOct 07 14:36
DaemonFCPhenom II X4 seems to be about equal to the Core 2 Quad at similar clock speedsOct 07 14:36
DaemonFCthe difference is that the Phenom is more affordableOct 07 14:36
oiaohmAnd temp.Oct 07 14:36
oiaohmPhenoms have habit of running colder than the Core 2 QuadOct 07 14:37
DaemonFCyeah, Speedstep didn't impress me (Intel)Oct 07 14:37
DaemonFCseemed like my system fan was always a jet engineOct 07 14:37
oiaohmI cannot wait until Linux gets a power management core.Oct 07 14:37
DaemonFCwhen your PC drowns out a passing train, you have problemsOct 07 14:37
oiaohmImpressive is the arm 2 ghz 8 cores.Oct 07 14:38
DaemonFCseems to me that AMD has had better power management since the Athlon64Oct 07 14:38
oiaohmYou can still passive cool them.Oct 07 14:38
DaemonFCbetter than Intel that isOct 07 14:38
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oiaohmI really would not want to try passive cool either amd or intel.Oct 07 14:39
DaemonFCthe Pentium 4 was equally as bad if not worse than AthlonXPOct 07 14:39
trmancoLOOOLOct 07 14:39
oiaohmFirst generation Pentium 4 were cold.Oct 07 14:39
trmanco"The bunker is equipped with Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) shielding and Nuclear/Biological/Chemical (NBC) air filtration to guarantee that the servers they host stay up no matter what happens. As of this week it is also the new home of The Pirate Bay."Oct 07 14:39
oiaohmJust slow as a snail DaemonFCOct 07 14:40
DaemonFCmine ran so hot that HP had to put a heat pipe leading to the back of the case (P4)Oct 07 14:40
oiaohmI guess you were nto using first generation DaemonFC  That perform slower than a Pent 3.Oct 07 14:41
Omar871oiaohm: did Roy say when he's coming back?Oct 07 14:42
oiaohmtrmanco: at least we know were the pirate bay server is to send shut down notice.   DaemonFCOct 07 14:42
oiaohmOmar871: did not notice.Oct 07 14:42
oiaohmOpps sorry DaemonFCOct 07 14:42
Omar871trmanco: did Roy say when he'll be back? Because I really need him.Oct 07 14:43
trmancocheck back in a hour or soOct 07 14:44
Omar871As for today's "MS Marketing Campaign", I've got a little bunch of vids and pics enough to use in a blog post.Oct 07 14:45
oiaohmShould be a simple thing to rip to bits Omar871Oct 07 14:45
oiaohmNot like MS marketing knows how to tell the truth.Oct 07 14:45
Omar871And I need to Roy's blogging expertise in this. I need to write a huge and ground shaking article about that event.Oct 07 14:45
Omar871oiaohm: what do you mean?Oct 07 14:46
oiaohmEvery one of MS marketing things I have ever seen contains lies either about linux or about there own product.Oct 07 14:47
Omar871oiaohm: that is so true.Oct 07 14:47
Omar871oiaohm: nothing but lies.Oct 07 14:47
oiaohmTruth is key to selling product.Oct 07 14:48
Omar871oiaohm: What d you mean by "easy thing to rip to bits"?Oct 07 14:48
Omar871oiaohm: or "simple".Oct 07 14:48
oiaohmeasy to point out the lies so undermining the complete marketing.Oct 07 14:48
oiaohmWhy believe marketing that contains lies arguement so undermining it.Oct 07 14:49
Omar871oiaohm: I know. But I need to make that clear to those pathetic friends of mine who simply fell for that scam.Oct 07 14:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @santhoshtr: Violence in Consumerism’s Own Country - J Devika http://bit.ly/4wLSAvOct 07 14:53
oiaohmYou think you have a problem.Oct 07 14:53
phIRCeTitle: Violence in Consumerisms Own Country « Kafila .::. Size~: 52.31 KBOct 07 14:53
Omar871oiaohm: At the end of the day, it's nothign more than a filthy scam.Oct 07 14:53
oiaohmI have 200 + of them in a computer club to deal with at times.Oct 07 14:53
oiaohmIts helped me get good at doing counters so making me more profitable.Oct 07 14:53
Omar871oiaohm: My friends are not the problem. They are just part of it.Oct 07 14:54
oiaohmThe are not really pathetic either.Oct 07 14:54
oiaohmthey just don't know better.Oct 07 14:54
Omar871oiaohm: The problem is the whole Jordanian (as well as the Arabian) IT world.Oct 07 14:54
oiaohmThe path I am pushing recently that is working ok.  Is Linux as the spare wheel.Oct 07 14:54
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oiaohmPeople get use to using it when windows breaks and after time they stop going back.Oct 07 14:55
Omar871oiaohm: That's why I call them pathetic. They don't know, which it makes me sad.Oct 07 14:55
Omar871which makes me sad.Oct 07 14:55
oiaohmWhy be sadOct 07 14:55
oiaohmIt helps no one.Oct 07 14:55
oiaohmSorry Buddhist nature  Omar871.Oct 07 14:56
Omar871oiaohm: To those people, and operatinf system is Windows, and not the other way around.Oct 07 14:56
Omar871oiaohm: What?Oct 07 14:56
oiaohmYou cannot help a person who does not want to be helped.  You can only provide them with guidence.Oct 07 14:56
oiaohmIf they listen so be it.Oct 07 14:56
oiaohmIf not they will have to go the long way.Oct 07 14:56
trmancohttp://www.junauza.com/2009/10/ubuntu-cola-vs-windows-cola.htmlOct 07 14:57
phIRCeTitle: Ubuntu Cola vs. Windows Cola | TECH SOURCE FROM BOHOL .::. Size~: 91.87 KBOct 07 14:57
Omar871oiaohm: Okay, it doesn't make me sad. But it makes me determined to reveal to them that they are being scammed.Oct 07 14:57
Omar871oiaohm: Exactly.Oct 07 14:57
oiaohmFollow the lession of the Buddhist ways.Oct 07 14:57
oiaohmPush too hard all you do is push them away and get no were.Oct 07 14:57
trmancohttp://www.engadget.com/2009/10/07/european-commission-likes-windows-7-browser-ballot-screen-will/Oct 07 14:58
phIRCeTitle: European Commission likes Windows 7 browser ballot screen, will probably fine Microsoft anyway .::. Size~: 142.16 KBOct 07 14:58
oiaohmReason why I learnt the Buddhist ways.  When it comes to getting people to do things they are the best at it Omar871Oct 07 14:58
Omar871oiaohm: That's what I'm trying to do with you as well. Trying to reveal to you that Atheism and Evolution are not right. But it's up to you to believe it or not.Oct 07 14:58
Omar871oiaohm: I don't know much about Buddhism, but I know their belief is the closest to Islam.Oct 07 14:59
oiaohmI am Buddhist and christian no conflicts.Oct 07 14:59
oiaohmBuddhist is mostly a way of life.Oct 07 14:59
Omar871oiaohm: Islam provides both, and more.Oct 07 15:00
oiaohmIf you believe in any of the Buddhist god/saints its your choice under Buddhist teachings.Oct 07 15:00
oiaohmYou can be Islam and Buddhist.Oct 07 15:00
Omar871oiaohm: no, you can't.Oct 07 15:00
Omar871oiaohm: and you don't have to.Oct 07 15:00
oiaohmThat is the thing about Buddhist teachings.  Its not faith.Oct 07 15:00
Omar871oiaohm: have you read about Islam?Oct 07 15:00
Omar871oiaohm: If you haven't, please do.Oct 07 15:01
oiaohmYou can be both Omar871.Oct 07 15:01
Omar871oiaohm: I am a Muslim. And I'm telling you, you can not.Oct 07 15:02
oiaohmThe difference between all other religions and Buddist is that Buddist does not demard faith.Oct 07 15:02
oiaohmDoes not demard belief.Oct 07 15:02
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oiaohmDemards that you live your life right nothing else.Oct 07 15:02
Omar871oiaohm: like I said, please read the Quran before judging it.Oct 07 15:02
oiaohmThe Quran does not cover some of the buddhist diplomancy sides.Oct 07 15:03
JPerlowomari is correctOct 07 15:03
Omar871oiaohm: Read the Quran in a neutral sense.Oct 07 15:03
JPerlowhowever you can practice Zen and still be muslimOct 07 15:03
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JPerlowbecause Zen is not a religionOct 07 15:03
Omar871oiaohm: Islam and Buddhism are totally different things.Oct 07 15:04
Omar871JPerlow: What is Zen?Oct 07 15:04
JPerlowzen is a philosophy of  how one looks at lifeOct 07 15:04
JPerlownot a religionOct 07 15:04
oiaohmBeing Buddhism does not mean you are following a religion you can be athethist yet be a buddhist.Oct 07 15:04
JPerlowbuddhism is a religionOct 07 15:05
oiaohmBuddhism is lot different due to way of life being key.Oct 07 15:05
JPerlowzen is a practiceOct 07 15:05
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oiaohmRead the documents of buddhism JPerlow key parts are way of life.Oct 07 15:05
Omar871oiaohm: If you are a true Muslim, you don't need to be anything else. If you read the Quran carefully, you'll find that out.Oct 07 15:05
oiaohmThat is incorrect Omar871Oct 07 15:06
Omar871oiaohm: even Israeli people are converting to Islam in numbers now.Oct 07 15:06
Omar871oiaohm:  that is correct.Oct 07 15:06
JPerlowthere are israeli muslimsOct 07 15:06
JPerlowthere have always beenOct 07 15:06
Omar871JPerlow: A lot of them.Oct 07 15:06
DaemonFCOmar871: Over my rotting corpseOct 07 15:06
JPerlowyes, a lot of themOct 07 15:06
oiaohmNo book covers everything Omar871Oct 07 15:06
JPerlowconverting however, that is a different mannerOct 07 15:07
Omar871oiaohm: The Quran does.Oct 07 15:07
JPerlowi seriously doubt israeli jews are converting to islamOct 07 15:07
oiaohmThat is faith in book Omar871Oct 07 15:07
Omar871oiaohm: If you read it carefully you'll find out by yourself.Oct 07 15:07
oiaohmFaith that book is perfect.Oct 07 15:07
DaemonFCIslam persists mostly in prisonsOct 07 15:07
Omar871oiaohm: Quran is all about faith. But it brings you faith with a proof.Oct 07 15:07
DaemonFCit spreads through hardened criminals in our societyOct 07 15:07
oiaohmProblem that buddhist teach is no book is perfect.Oct 07 15:07
JPerlowomar the problem I have is the inconsistency between the medina part of the book and the mecca part.Oct 07 15:08
oiaohmOver time meanings of words change.Oct 07 15:08
Omar871JPerlow: How?Oct 07 15:08
oiaohmSo people reading book get different meanings to what the book was meant to say.Oct 07 15:08
Omar871oiaohm: Not true.Oct 07 15:08
DaemonFChardened criminals and bitter black peopleOct 07 15:08
oiaohmIts true Omar871Oct 07 15:08
Omar871Not true oiaohmOct 07 15:08
JPerlowbecause in one part, the prophet is peacefu, and in the other, he advocates kiling those that are not islam.Oct 07 15:08
oiaohmBuddhist have many thousands of years of written history.Oct 07 15:08
oiaohmMore than muslims.Oct 07 15:09
DaemonFCoiaohm: well, a little less now that the Muslims have blown up those Buddha statuesOct 07 15:09
DaemonFCanimalsOct 07 15:09
oiaohmOne of the key thing to reading the old books is keeping the words in the right time frames.Oct 07 15:09
Omar871JPerlow: first of all. The prophet didn't write it.Oct 07 15:09
JPerlowomar: it doesnt matter, it is the foundation of scripture for islamOct 07 15:09
oiaohmBuddhists also maintain backups DaemonFCOct 07 15:09
DaemonFCnot of thoseOct 07 15:10
oiaohmJust incase somewhere gets destoryed they learnt that from gangus karn.Oct 07 15:10
oiaohmFew 1000 years before christ.Oct 07 15:10
DaemonFChttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_BamyanOct 07 15:10
phIRCeTitle: Buddhas of Bamyan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 141.45 KBOct 07 15:10
Omar871JPerlow: Second, he advocates Muslims to protect themselves.Oct 07 15:10
DaemonFChttp://www.usatoday.com/news/science/archaeology/2001-03-22-afghan-buddhas.htmOct 07 15:10
Omar871JPerlow: like I keep telling oiaohm, read carefullt.Oct 07 15:10
Omar871carefullyOct 07 15:10
DaemonFCMuslims are the enemy of everyone elseOct 07 15:10
Omar871And read the whole idea.Oct 07 15:11
DaemonFCwhether they realize it or notOct 07 15:11
JPerlowdeamon: not non-extremistsOct 07 15:11
Omar871JPerlow: One of the Phrophet's neighbors was jew, who used to throw rubbish and junk at his door.Oct 07 15:11
DaemonFCwhen I go blow someone up or their culture or heritage, you can say I'm as bad as a MuslimOct 07 15:12
Omar871JPerlow: One day, the jew became sick. The prophet visited him.Oct 07 15:12
JPerlowthat is the same as "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth"Oct 07 15:12
*Omar871 will be back.Oct 07 15:12
oiaohmDaemonFC: Those status are land marks.Oct 07 15:12
oiaohmEven destoryed there marker point is still there.Oct 07 15:13
DaemonFCuncultured swine are what blew them upOct 07 15:13
oiaohmThey really were nothing more than large bits of art.Oct 07 15:13
DaemonFCapologize for them all you likeOct 07 15:13
oiaohmThere were stories they they contained treasures.Oct 07 15:14
JPerlowomar: I have no problem with muslim people. I just do not understand the inconsistency between the two parts of the text.Oct 07 15:14
oiaohmSo all we can presume is the musliems were gready.Oct 07 15:14
oiaohmDaemonFC: what writing did the status contain.   Threw out history buddhists have lost a lot of sites.Oct 07 15:15
DaemonFCoiaohm: doesn't matter cause the Muslims wouldn't have stopped even if they did contain something totally irreplaceableOct 07 15:16
oiaohmGenghis khan burning the great libraries of the buddhists was a far more damaging event.Oct 07 15:16
DaemonFCtheir religion is a feverish insanityOct 07 15:16
oiaohmWood tablet libraries.Oct 07 15:16
oiaohmLucky he could be talked into seeing sence before destroying the last one.Oct 07 15:17
oiaohmBuddhists store lots of information on medicial and other things gathered over time.Oct 07 15:17
oiaohmSince they don't believe in any one book holding the all the answers.  It makes perfect sence to Buddhist to archive important documents.Oct 07 15:18
oiaohmTo the Buddhists destoring the status provides a chance to rebuild better if that is fate choose to allow it.Oct 07 15:19
JPerlowits funny how this channel becomes embroiled in religion and politics.Oct 07 15:20
JPerlowwell, maybe not funny. expected.Oct 07 15:20
oiaohmNow this is the difference.  Buddhists are minorally sad about the destruction.  Mostly about the stupid people who did it.Oct 07 15:20
oiaohmNow if someone destoryed a Muslime site it would be on for young and old.Oct 07 15:20
JPerloware you guys talking about the destruction of the large buddhist statues in iraq?Oct 07 15:21
JPerlowor was it afghanistanOct 07 15:21
oiaohmafghanistan JPerlowOct 07 15:21
JPerlowright, still earlyOct 07 15:21
JPerlowyeah, that was awfulOct 07 15:21
oiaohmThe buddhist are currently collecting all the documents with pictures of them.Oct 07 15:22
oiaohmAnd there are a lot of the accross time.Oct 07 15:22
JPerlowyou cannot blame the afghan people for thatOct 07 15:22
oiaohmSo if they get a chance to rebuild them they can.Oct 07 15:22
JPerlowit was the talibanOct 07 15:22
oiaohmHeck there are temples of the buddhist that get ripped down each year and moved.Oct 07 15:23
oiaohmNothing is for ever.Oct 07 15:23
JPerlowI am sure the damming of the yellow river in china flooded plentyOct 07 15:23
JPerlowthat will never be seen againOct 07 15:23
JPerlowoiaohm: nothing is forever is a tenet of your faith, but it is still awful that it happenedOct 07 15:24
oiaohmIts a chance to do better.Oct 07 15:24
oiaohmNo point being negitive about it.  Negitive helps no one.Oct 07 15:24
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Can you hear the gritting of the teeth behind this announcement? http://tinyurl.com/y8b8dw7Oct 07 15:25
phIRCeTitle: Slashdot Technology Story | AT&T To Allow VoIP On iPhone .::. Size~: 133.12 KBOct 07 15:25
oiaohmYes you can see lot of buddhist in the way I see the world.  JPerlowOct 07 15:25
JPerlowoiaohm: where do you live, taiwan?Oct 07 15:26
oiaohmAustraliaOct 07 15:27
JPerlowyou are chinese?Oct 07 15:27
oiaohmNoOct 07 15:27
JPerlowof indian extraction?Oct 07 15:28
oiaohmNopOct 07 15:28
JPerlowthai?Oct 07 15:28
oiaohmThink all of europe that is were my famally tree traces to.Oct 07 15:29
JPerlowand you're buddhist?Oct 07 15:29
JPerlowby choice or by birth?Oct 07 15:29
schestowitzOmar871: check out http://www.fsdaily.com/Legal/Amicus_Avalanche_Opposing_Software_Patents_in_the_United_States_Novell_Still_MissingOct 07 15:29
oiaohmSo what is strange about.Oct 07 15:29
phIRCeTitle: Amicus Avalanche Opposing Software Patents in the United States (Novell Still Missing) | fsdaily.com - Free Software News .::. Size~: 30.11 KBOct 07 15:30
JPerlowoiaohm: because there are no native buddhist cultures in europeOct 07 15:30
*schestowitz catches upOct 07 15:30
oiaohmBuddhist is always by choice.  My family is a mixture of Buddhist and Christians even in europe.Oct 07 15:31
JPerlowok, but is your family at all asianOct 07 15:31
oiaohmNoOct 07 15:31
JPerlowthen its entirely by choiceOct 07 15:31
oiaohmWe started off a fully christian along time back section of family went exploring and brought the ideas back.Oct 07 15:32
JPerlownothing wrong with that.Oct 07 15:32
JPerlowstill, quite interestingOct 07 15:33
JPerlowthat is unusualOct 07 15:33
JPerlowyou see asians becoming christians but not entire families of westerners becoming and staying buddhist.Oct 07 15:33
oiaohmSo my familly prac of praying in any christian church.Oct 07 15:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] If you have a TV in the UK, please proudly pay your TV licence as I do. If not, here's now to tell TVL to just fuck off http://is.gd/42P01Oct 07 15:34
phIRCeTitle: Philip Dean: withdrawal of implied right of access .::. Size~: 7.07 KBOct 07 15:34
JPerlowdo you practice zen?Oct 07 15:34
oiaohmSections of zen.Oct 07 15:34
oiaohmWe do have some monks in my family.   Boy never underestmate budhist monks when the fell like party.Oct 07 15:36
JPerlowI have a friend who is a monk.Oct 07 15:36
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JPerlowshe lives in canada.Oct 07 15:36
oiaohmWe do somethings have major conflits.  Christian ministers sitting down with Buddhist monks at one table can be a recipe for trouble JPerlowOct 07 15:37
JPerlowin fact, the entire place runs on ubuntu.Oct 07 15:37
JPerlowthe entire monastary.Oct 07 15:37
schestowitzSounds typicalOct 07 15:37
JPerlowI interviewed the man who installed it for them and lives there.Oct 07 15:37
JPerlowwwzc.orgOct 07 15:37
schestowitzI've come across stories of monastaries that run UbuntuOct 07 15:37
schestowitzProbably not the same oneOct 07 15:37
trmancoping Omar871Oct 07 15:37
oiaohmThat is normal for monastaries.  They must justify every bit of expendured JPerlowOct 07 15:38
JPerlowhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=9704Oct 07 15:38
oiaohmwith a good explaination why.Oct 07 15:38
oiaohmYou try creating a good explaination why that holds water for windows JPerlowOct 07 15:38
JPerlowI don't know how "normal" it is but I thought it was interesting enough to merit an interviewOct 07 15:38
oiaohmThere is 1 here I know that runs mac but its a odd one  JPerlowOct 07 15:39
JPerlowwell, it doesnt hold water for windows for the most part to be used by non for profit companies or organizationsOct 07 15:39
JPerlowespecially if they don't require specific applications that only windows can run or have interoperability needs.Oct 07 15:40
oiaohmBuddhist value study of problems.  Who else would spend 50 years studing how to make a good cup of tea JPerlowOct 07 15:40
JPerlowyoure not going to get any argument from me there.Oct 07 15:40
JPerlowoiaohm: the english?Oct 07 15:41
JPerlowI think they've been doing it for about 300 yearsOct 07 15:41
JPerlowlolOct 07 15:41
oiaohmThere is a monastarie of the buddhist that is decated to how to make a good cup of tea.  The instructions are even caved in stone.Oct 07 15:42
JPerlowwhat does he say?Oct 07 15:42
oiaohmIts large.Oct 07 15:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] why the Body Mass Index is odious unscientific bullshit. Resist assiduously. http://bit.ly/15TheX HT @urocyonOct 07 15:43
phIRCeTitle: The (Lack of) Science behind the BMI .::. Size~: 16.17 KBOct 07 15:43
oiaohmReally about 8 pages of A4 about quality of ingrendence JPerlowOct 07 15:43
JPerlowif it starts with "put seeds in the ground" I can see how it might take awhileOct 07 15:43
oiaohmLike how to get the water pure enough.Oct 07 15:43
oiaohmSo the water does not effect the taste.Oct 07 15:43
JPerlowI buy bottled water for coffee and tea.Oct 07 15:44
oiaohmYes it also covers growing the plants that is another section.Oct 07 15:44
oiaohmIts quite a large book really.Oct 07 15:45
JPerlowok so its not about making a cup of tea, ita an entire treatise on teaOct 07 15:45
oiaohmBlack and green tea have two different lots of instructions.Oct 07 15:45
JPerlowsure, the temperatures and duration of brewing need to be different.Oct 07 15:46
oiaohmIncluding growing conditions required even that they are the same plant.Oct 07 15:46
oiaohmAnd they are two different monastarieOct 07 15:46
oiaohmI cannot remember 1 of them is improved by particular minerals being in the water to get better flavour release.Oct 07 15:47
JPerlowI'm not going to attempt to grow tea anytime soonOct 07 15:47
JPerlowwe don't exactly have the climate for it here in New YorkOct 07 15:48
JPerlowa few summers ago, we did, but not this last oneOct 07 15:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] UN warns of world war online < http://ping.fm/VIjqY > Botnets make use of non-Free software.Oct 07 15:49
oiaohmWhen you wake up how complex to get a perfect cup of tea is.  It becomes clear no book could contain everything.Oct 07 15:49
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JPerlowgm jonoOct 07 15:52
schestowitzhttp://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/10/07/apple_itab_suppliers/Oct 07 15:54
phIRCeTitle: Foxconn to send Apple 400,000 iTablets in Q1 2010, say moles • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 19.92 KBOct 07 15:54
jonohowdy JPerlowOct 07 15:55
JPerlowI blew up my koala vmOct 07 15:56
JPerlowI need to re install itOct 07 15:56
JPerlowlolOct 07 15:57
JPerlowI tried running all the kubuntu and ubuntu packages simultaneouslyOct 07 15:57
JPerlowon one vmOct 07 15:57
JPerlowit worked for about a day until I rebooted it and the kernel wouldnt come upOct 07 15:57
oiaohmOk ouch.Oct 07 15:59
oiaohmWhat brokeOct 07 16:00
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JPerlownot sureOct 07 16:04
oiaohmKernel should still start.Oct 07 16:05
JPerlowbut the packages are being updated a lotOct 07 16:05
JPerlowand I am running virtualizedOct 07 16:05
JPerlowso I might wait until releaseOct 07 16:05
JPerlowright now jaunty is behaving niceOct 07 16:05
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Omar871schestowitz: HiOct 07 16:12
schestowitzHeyOct 07 16:12
Omar871schestowitz: Did they tell you?Oct 07 16:12
schestowitzNo, what exactly?Oct 07 16:12
Omar871schestowitz: I attended the Microsoft event earlier today.Oct 07 16:12
schestowitzYou were going to tell me somehtingOct 07 16:12
schestowitzOhOct 07 16:12
schestowitzBTW: [15:29] <schestowitz> Omar871: check out http://www.fsdaily.com/Legal/Amicus_Avalanche_Opposing_Software_Patents_in_the_United_States_Novell_Still_MissingOct 07 16:13
phIRCeTitle: Amicus Avalanche Opposing Software Patents in the United States (Novell Still Missing) | fsdaily.com - Free Software News .::. Size~: 30.05 KBOct 07 16:13
schestowitzOmar871: if there's a smoking gun, that would be somethingOct 07 16:13
schestowitzMicrosoft has the whole MSP routinOct 07 16:13
schestowitzFor using kids as free labourOct 07 16:13
Omar871schestowitz: And I'm really pissed off, and I'm preparing for an article which I need your help in.Oct 07 16:13
schestowitzOmar871: sureOct 07 16:13
schestowitzWe can exchange info in IRCOct 07 16:14
Omar871schestowitz: My friends and colleagues are being indoctrinated, made soldiers man!Oct 07 16:14
Omar871schestowitz: This war is no longer Software Freedom vs. Microsoft, it's Me vs. Microsoft now. :)Oct 07 16:15
JPerlowomar: who do you write for?Oct 07 16:16
Omar871JPerlow: I write for myself. and for the people around me.Oct 07 16:16
JPerlowand your blog isOct 07 16:17
Omar871JPerlow: my blog is what?Oct 07 16:17
JPerlowwhat is the url?Oct 07 16:17
schestowitzOmar871: that fsdaily story is a vote short of front pageOct 07 16:17
Omar871JPerlow: omarsflosscorner.blogspot.comOct 07 16:17
schestowitzOmar871: it's Microsoft against the digital majorityOct 07 16:17
Omar871schestowitz: I'll do that.Oct 07 16:17
schestowitzMicrosoft+ecosystem vs the restOct 07 16:18
schestowitzLike many imperialisticOct 07 16:18
schestowitzLike many imperialistic entitiesOct 07 16:18
schestowitzCountries can own their own IT and they should... with FSOct 07 16:18
Omar871Which one?Oct 07 16:18
schestowitzOmar871: see above URLOct 07 16:18
Omar871schestowitz: okOct 07 16:19
schestowitzOmar871: they do this in other countries alsoOct 07 16:19
schestowitzNot unique to youOct 07 16:19
Omar871schestowitz: Voted.Oct 07 16:19
schestowitzSome poeple just don't realise itOct 07 16:19
Omar871schestowitz: Yeah.Oct 07 16:19
schestowitzCause they are never shown the OTHER side of the storyOct 07 16:19
schestowitzExample: "poor Microsoft employees getting laid off"Oct 07 16:19
schestowitzNot shown: "Microsoft competitors driven out of business cause Microsoft broke the law"Oct 07 16:20
schestowitzMicrosoft controls the pressOct 07 16:20
schestowitzSo one-sided coverage is to be expected and people thus indocrtinatedOct 07 16:20
schestowitzPeople are trained not to think anything but WIndows existOct 07 16:20
Omar871schestowitz: Some people have already been hypnotized so as to not even want to see the truth, even though it's setting right between their eyes.Oct 07 16:20
schestowitzSuch that they haven't qualms about promoting Microsoft at the expense of those who want autonomous digital sovereigntyOct 07 16:21
Omar871schestowitz: I also fetched some a couple vidz and pics with my cellphone camera.Oct 07 16:22
Omar871schestowitz: Not so high in quality, yet pretty self-descriptive.Oct 07 16:22
Omar871schestowitz: So, I'm gonna talk to you again soon so that we start writing the post, ok?Oct 07 16:26
schestowitzOmar871: cool!Oct 07 16:28
Omar871schestowitz: ;)Oct 07 16:28
Omar871schestowitz: One thing I know for sure now is that, lots and lots of efforts are still to be done in order to bring that menace down.Oct 07 16:29
Omar871schestowitz: So, what exactly is Amicus?Oct 07 16:33
JPerlowit means friendlyOct 07 16:34
JPerlowin latinOct 07 16:34
bozo_as in AmicableOct 07 16:35
Omar871JPerlow: Yeah! That's true. Pretty much similar to Amigo in spanish. :)Oct 07 16:35
JPerlowit means it is submitted as a non litigating partyOct 07 16:35
Omar871But I mean, what is the Amicus Avalanche case about?Oct 07 16:35
JPerlowits not a caseOct 07 16:35
Omar871JP: What then?Oct 07 16:36
*schestowitz on phoneOct 07 16:36
JPerlowits various amicus briefs submitted on the issues of software patentsOct 07 16:36
Omar871JPerlow: oh, okay.Oct 07 16:36
Omar871JPerlow: So, those issues submitted by Red Hat, FSF and FSFE are called Amicus Avalanche?Oct 07 16:37
JPerlowno they are amicus briefs.Oct 07 16:37
Omar871JPerlow: oh okay.Oct 07 16:37
JPerlowbut everyone is saying because tehy are all being submitted at once its an avalanceOct 07 16:37
bozo_Yes, in means there are many of them.Oct 07 16:37
Omar871JPerlow: Oh, good to know that.Oct 07 16:38
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Omar871bozo_: Like: Amicus Avalanche =  A bunch of amicus briefs.Oct 07 16:38
bozo_yesOct 07 16:39
Omar871bozo_: Thanks.Oct 07 16:39
bozo_a tidal wave of amicus briefs, a pleforyOct 07 16:39
bozo_preforaOct 07 16:39
bozo_that wordOct 07 16:39
Omar871bozo_, JPerlow: I see. Thanks a lot for the clarification.Oct 07 16:40
JPerlowneed to reboot this vm. bbiabOct 07 16:40
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JPerlowI love virtualization.Oct 07 16:41
JPerlowlolOct 07 16:41
Omar871JPerlow: It's cool.Oct 07 16:42
Omar871JPerlow: But as long as Linux is the base OS.Oct 07 16:43
JPerlowon this box, it isnt.Oct 07 16:46
schestowitzLinux gone down.. by Patch TuesdayOct 07 16:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Soot clouds pose threat to Himalayan glaciers" http://ping.fm/LHt7fOct 07 16:50
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schestowitz"And while Red Hat is a Unix-like platform with its Linux, “with Apple they couple the Unix reliability with a world-class user interface." http://www.securitydirectornews.com/?p=article&id=sd200910bJdm9Oct 07 16:58
phIRCeTitle: Government going Apple? - Security Director News | The Business Newspaper for Security Practitioners .::. Size~: 55.98 KBOct 07 16:59
MinceRlolOct 07 16:59
schestowitzThere's that "Apple=Easy" marketing tripe againOct 07 16:59
schestowitzYou can't make it behave as you need it toOct 07 16:59
MinceRit's pretty harsh to call the world apple-classOct 07 16:59
schestowitzSmells like an Apple advertOct 07 16:59
MinceRbut perhaps it's trueOct 07 16:59
schestowitzWatch the articleOct 07 16:59
schestowitz"Gettings said Apple and Unix/Linux are attractive to government customers because of reliability and ease of use. “It just runs,” he said of the Apple platform."Oct 07 16:59
schestowitzI'm still reading itOct 07 16:59
MinceRit just runs...and does nothing else!Oct 07 17:00
schestowitz"Gettings allowed that not every customer is going to be able to support Apple systems, but “we’ve been shipping on Red Hat Linux for years, so if they’re supporting a Linux environment, they won’t have any difficulty with Apple,” said Gettings. “Those that are on Windows, it is a bit of a hurdle. But we’ll have that same hurdle whether we’re offering a Dell with Linux or OSX on an Apple.”"Oct 07 17:00
schestowitzMy kde4 is easy to useOct 07 17:00
schestowitzMaybe I do something wrongOct 07 17:00
schestowitzMinceR: it has d0shb0rdOct 07 17:00
JPerlowroy its all about needsOct 07 17:01
JPerlowand usage profileOct 07 17:01
MinceRyeah, the need for an expensive and shiny paperweightOct 07 17:01
MinceRthat comes with its own cultOct 07 17:01
JPerlowmac is not a good solution at this timeOct 07 17:01
JPerlownot on a cost basisOct 07 17:02
Omar871JPerlow: It never was.Oct 07 17:02
JPerlowbut i can understand why certain groups of users may be attracted to itOct 07 17:02
MinceRit never was a solutionOct 07 17:02
JPerlowthere are large groups of programmers within IBM that use macOct 07 17:02
JPerlowthey like the environment.Oct 07 17:02
schestowitz[17:01] <JPerlow> roy its all about needsOct 07 17:02
asdf_Hi guys. How did you mean that "The sad thing about that distribution is that it has a lot of non-Free things in it." line in that Stalman about SUSE article? afaik it's clearly seperated in an oss and non-oss repo. Or is the mere fact of having a non-oss one bad?Oct 07 17:02
schestowitz[17:01] <JPerlow> and usage profileOct 07 17:02
schestowitzAgreed.Oct 07 17:02
Omar871JPerlow: 'coz they got lots of loot.Oct 07 17:02
schestowitzThat's why kde works for meOct 07 17:02
schestowitzIt suit my own patternsOct 07 17:03
schestowitzIt doesn;'t impose on me ONE menu barOct 07 17:03
schestowitzOr click to focusOct 07 17:03
schestowitzOr one theme that makes me look like a part of a bunchOct 07 17:03
schestowitzSo many desktops still run the Fisher Price XP GUIOct 07 17:03
Omar871schestowitz: Speaking of the interface, Vista 7 is a mere KDE copy-paste.Oct 07 17:03
schestowitzBut with Widnows it's at least changeableOct 07 17:04
JPerlowasdf: any distribution that has non-free components in a repo or points to components you can get doesnt get on the FSF's recommended list. Period.Oct 07 17:04
Omar871schestowitz: The firggin' exact same gadgets you use in KDE are totally cloned in Vista 7!!Oct 07 17:04
JPerlowthat is why ubuntu isnt on the listOct 07 17:04
JPerlowand fedora isnt on the listOct 07 17:04
asdf_JPerlow: sure, I just didn't hear him bitching about e.g. Ubuntu. I guess most of them offer one so that claim is somehow extreme ...Oct 07 17:04
schestowitzasdf_: JPerlow might knowOct 07 17:04
JPerlowand debian isnt on the list.Oct 07 17:04
JPerlowthere is a list of FSF proscribed distributions on their web site.Oct 07 17:05
schestowitzI like how he keeps secret his distroOct 07 17:05
schestowitzLinus used to do the sameOct 07 17:05
JPerlowif you follow free software to the letter of the law, as dictated by FSF, then therefore, anything else is "unfortunate"Oct 07 17:05
schestowitzBut it's know that he used Fedora+GNOME on all machines nowOct 07 17:06
asdf_yeah well, those are somehow the minority to say it politely. imho as long as it is clearly seperated so one can avoid it if one wants is perfectly fine with me.Oct 07 17:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @gkjohn: Star Wars Movie Crowdsourced http://ff.im/-9nQYWOct 07 17:06
phIRCeTitle: swissmiss  | Star Wars Movie Crowdsourced .::. Size~: 12.54 KBOct 07 17:06
schestowitzWith pine and terminal and micro emacsOct 07 17:06
JPerlowasdf: Free Software as an ideology is what it is. You either accept it or you don't. I don't accept it.Oct 07 17:06
schestowitzI tried viewing Star Wars the other day. It's too boring.Oct 07 17:07
JPerlowor rather, I like certain aspects of it, but I find it absolutely unrealistic to follow to the letter.Oct 07 17:07
schestowitzThose who don't obey g to ghellOct 07 17:08
schestowitzTheir consciousness gets routed to /dev/null/Oct 07 17:08
JPerlowschestowitz he uses gnewsenseOct 07 17:08
JPerlowstallman, anywayOct 07 17:09
asdf_well schestowitz, what distro do you use currently?Oct 07 17:09
schestowitzright now kubuntu 9.10Oct 07 17:09
asdf_schestowitz: heh, I guess then we see each other in hell then ;DOct 07 17:09
asdf_as in buntu has a non-oss repo as well iirc, right?Oct 07 17:09
schestowitzBring lumberOct 07 17:09
asdf_nah, marshmallows & bbq :DOct 07 17:10
JPerlowasdf: it by default installs a number of non-FREE stuff by the definition of FSFOct 07 17:10
*schestowitz grabs marshmallowOct 07 17:10
schestowitzmarshmallow eternityOct 07 17:10
JPerlowasdf: youre mixing terminologiesOct 07 17:10
JPerlowOpen Source is not Free SoftwareOct 07 17:10
JPerlowOpen Source is a development modelOct 07 17:10
JPerlowFree Software is an ideologyOct 07 17:11
asdf_JPerlow: as long as my alsa isn't happy without firmware I prefer to use non free stuff.Oct 07 17:11
schestowitzAlas a moral oneOct 07 17:11
JPerlowby definition, Free Software does not support the general pracices of Open Source, as in, what the OSI beleives inOct 07 17:11
schestowitzOSI has FS elements in itOct 07 17:11
schestowitzLike MichaelOct 07 17:11
JPerlowasdf: Free Software has certain licenses that it considers compatible with its ideologyOct 07 17:12
asdf_JPerlow: not really. He (stalman) said that suse mixes oss with non-oss stuff which isn't true. The stuff is seperated in 2 different repos and it explicitly asks you during installation if it should install _2_ packages from the non-oss one (alsa-firmware and another one). So I fail to see how that is different e.g. from buntu.Oct 07 17:12
JPerlowasdf: he does not endorse distributions which point to non-free materials. PERIOD.Oct 07 17:13
JPerlowasdf: both FSF and OSI have licenses that conform to each's requirementsOct 07 17:13
JPerlowsome of them overlap.Oct 07 17:13
JPerlowsome of them do not.Oct 07 17:14
JPerlowyou either accept the FSF for what it does or you don't.Oct 07 17:14
JPerlowI don't.Oct 07 17:14
JPerlowI support the OSI and its initiativs.Oct 07 17:14
JPerlowbleh. cant spell this morning. coffee.Oct 07 17:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Self Service At Tesco With Windows Kiosks | The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/ybrp8nhOct 07 17:15
asdf_JPerlow: that's ok. I was just wondering why he singled suse out since that "it mixes non-oss stuff in" isn't anymore true than e.g. for buntu and several others and was wondering if I'm missing something.Oct 07 17:16
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DaemonFCI'm thinking I'll stick that XFX Geforce 9500 GT in this otherwise badass rig til some DirectX 11 hardware is outOct 07 17:17
DaemonFCno sense in dropping $150-ish on a DX 10.1 card when DX 11 ones are gonna be here soonOct 07 17:17
DaemonFCthe one I have already supports DX 10.1 and OpenGL 3.2Oct 07 17:18
DaemonFCit is interesting to see the Nvidia/ATI price wars going on though, hopefully they'll have some DX 11 cards around the start of the year at around $100Oct 07 17:19
DaemonFCthough if that's not the case, I may yet pick up a 9800 GTX if they clearance them outOct 07 17:20
DaemonFCB-)Oct 07 17:20
JPerlowasdf: he singled SUSE out because it is a product of a company he dispisesOct 07 17:20
DaemonFCI don't have much against Suse, other than being bloated and slow in placesOct 07 17:21
DaemonFCmost of it is a good systemOct 07 17:21
JPerlowbecause novell signed agreements with microsoftOct 07 17:21
DaemonFCJPerlow: Those agreements will eventually be goneOct 07 17:22
DaemonFChas any other software company that had it's own OS that partnered with Microsoft had good results?Oct 07 17:22
JPerlowthey will either get renewed, or novell will cease to exist as an independent entityOct 07 17:23
DaemonFCeither Novell will be damaged and pull out while there's a company to save or they'll be ruinedOct 07 17:23
schestowitzJPerlow: are you familiar with http://www.primatelabs.ca/geekbench/ ?Oct 07 17:23
DaemonFCeither way the deal won't last more than a few more yearsOct 07 17:23
phIRCeTitle: Primate Labs Geekbench .::. Size~: 8.49 KBOct 07 17:23
Diablo-D3I think the only reason to single out suse is because its the worst distro ever producedOct 07 17:23
Diablo-D3you'd have to go bring up things like gentoo to get any worseOct 07 17:23
DaemonFCDiablo-D3: Not the worstOct 07 17:23
JPerlowno, not familiar with itOct 07 17:23
JPerlowlooks interersing thoughOct 07 17:23
JPerlowI don't do a ton of benchmarking.Oct 07 17:24
DaemonFCDiablo-D3: Gentoo, Slackware, ForesightOct 07 17:24
DaemonFCthere's some nasty onesOct 07 17:24
Diablo-D3basically, its done by a bunch of people who've never used linux and think it should be more like a cross between windows and solarisOct 07 17:24
schestowitzJPerlow: seems like it may be Windows bisedOct 07 17:24
schestowitzMaybe DaemonFC knows itOct 07 17:24
Diablo-D3it has a very bad packaging policy, none of their shit works right, and its completely inferior to debianOct 07 17:24
DaemonFCDiablo-D3: What I hated most of Suse was that standard *nix utilities are not there by defaultOct 07 17:25
JPerlowlolOct 07 17:25
schestowitzThis piece says nothing about what the test is: http://pcquest.ciol.com/content/topstories/2009/109100610.aspOct 07 17:25
DaemonFCI mean things like locate and slocate are not thereOct 07 17:25
phIRCeTitle: PCQuest : Top Stories : Does Windows 7 Boost Performance? .::. Size~: 35.79 KBOct 07 17:25
schestowitzJust cites some nameOct 07 17:25
schestowitzLike Phoronix PTSOct 07 17:25
DaemonFCschestowitz: I got my dad switched over to UbuntuOct 07 17:26
DaemonFCHe's got his laptop on it and is backing up his Suse desktop getting ready to formatOct 07 17:26
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&c2coff=1&q=microsoft+Geekbench&aq=f&oq=&aqi= http://www.google.com/search?q=site:www.primatelabs.ca+microsoft+Geekbench&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-GBOct 07 17:26
phIRCeTitle: microsoft Geekbench - Google Search .::. Size~: 26.32 KBOct 07 17:26
phIRCeTitle: site:www.primatelabs.ca microsoft Geekbench - Google Search .::. Size~: 22.44 KBOct 07 17:26
schestowitzDaemonFC: he was on SUSE, right?Oct 07 17:26
DaemonFCyesOct 07 17:26
DaemonFCOpenSuse, with ReiserFS partitionsOct 07 17:27
schestowitzsuse_userbase=suse_userbase--;Oct 07 17:27
DaemonFCseriously wicked crapOct 07 17:27
JPerlowreiser was an brilliant programmer.Oct 07 17:27
schestowitzSUSE was reiser's main backerOct 07 17:27
DaemonFChe got his HP Pavilion laptop with Suse preinstalled on itOct 07 17:27
schestowitzWho? Hans? j/kOct 07 17:28
DaemonFCbut I handed him one of my 64-bit Ubuntu discsOct 07 17:28
DaemonFCHP also has RHEL DesktopOct 07 17:28
trmanco!quit phIRCeOct 07 17:28
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DaemonFCI like HP, you get a lot of system for the price, the downside is that sometimes they cut a corner or twoOct 07 17:29
trmanco!google boycottnovellOct 07 17:29
phIRCeBoycottnovell.com | Truth about Novell, Mono, Moonlight ... | http://boycottnovell.com/Oct 07 17:29
phIRCeAbout the Site | Boycott Novell | http://boycottnovell.com/about-the-site/Oct 07 17:29
phIRCeLinux.com :: Boycott Novell: Champion of freedom or den of paranoia? | http://www.linux.com/archive/feature/151215Oct 07 17:29
phIRCeThe Curious Case of Boycott Novell | Armchair Theorist | http://armchairtheorist.com/2009/07/21/the-curious-case-of-boycott-novell/Oct 07 17:29
DaemonFCoverall I've never had a reliability problem, but stay away from CompaqOct 07 17:29
trmanco:)Oct 07 17:29
schestowitzDaemonFC: apt-get install kde-desktopOct 07 17:30
schestowitzhttp://www.h-online.com/open/KDE-4-3-2-released--/news/114408Oct 07 17:30
schestowitzsudo !!Oct 07 17:30
DaemonFCPC makers to stay away from are Gateway, Compaq, and lower end DellsOct 07 17:30
schestowitztrmanco: heh. You feed the Microsoft employee who attacks usOct 07 17:30
trmanco?Oct 07 17:30
schestowitz"TE"Oct 07 17:30
trmancowhereOct 07 17:30
schestowitzWOngOct 07 17:30
DaemonFCHP and eMachines are OK even though HP is the same company as Compaq and eMachines is budget GatewayOct 07 17:30
trmancouh?Oct 07 17:31
schestowitzProfessional ShillsOct 07 17:31
DaemonFCmid and high end Dells are alrightOct 07 17:31
schestowitz!google testOct 07 17:31
phIRCeTest.com Web Based Testing and Certification Software v2.0 | http://www.test.com/Oct 07 17:31
phIRCeSpeakeasy - Speed Test | http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/Oct 07 17:31
phIRCePersonality test based on Jung - Myers-Briggs typology | http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.aspOct 07 17:31
phIRCeNerdTests.com Fun Tests - Nerd Quiz | http://www.nerdtests.com/ft_nq.phpOct 07 17:31
schestowitzThis would be handy!Oct 07 17:31
DaemonFC!google tonic clonic seizureOct 07 17:31
phIRCeTonic–clonic seizure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonic%25E2%2580%2593clonic_seizureOct 07 17:31
phIRCeTonic-clonic Seizures | epilepsy.com | http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/seizure_tonicclonicOct 07 17:31
phIRCeGeneralized tonic-clonic seizure: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia | http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000695.htmOct 07 17:31
phIRCeSeizure Recognition: Tonic Clonic Seizures | http://www.epilepsyfoundation.org/answerplace/Medical/seizures/types/genConvulsive/seizuretonic.cfmOct 07 17:31
trmanco!google microsoft is evilOct 07 17:31
phIRCeThe Daily Poll: Is Microsoft Still Evil? | http://mashable.com/2008/02/27/microsoft-evil-poll/Oct 07 17:31
phIRCeIs Microsoft&#39;s Silverlight evil? • The Register | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/12/evil_silverlight/Oct 07 17:31
schestowitzAs long as it's !nsfwOct 07 17:31
DaemonFC:POct 07 17:31
phIRCeBBspot - Microsoft Purchases Evil From Satan | http://www.bbspot.com/News/2000/4/MS_Buys_Evil.htmlOct 07 17:31
phIRCeWhy Microsoft is evil@Everything2.com | http://everything2.com/title/Why%2BMicrosoft%2Bis%2BevilOct 07 17:31
trmancohmmOct 07 17:31
trmancois safesearch of by default?Oct 07 17:31
schestowitzDunnoOct 07 17:32
trmancofound  bugOct 07 17:32
DaemonFCI honestly don't see what people see in MacsOct 07 17:32
schestowitz!google apple suycksOct 07 17:32
phIRCeiTunes Store - Brad Sucks - Out of It - Dropping Out of School | http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum%3Fi%3D291756026%26id%3D291755950%26s%3D143441Oct 07 17:32
phIRCeiTunes Store - Brad Sucks - I Don&#39;t Know What I&#39;m Doing - Making ... | http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum%3Fi%3D74302068%26id%3D74302212%26s%3D143441Oct 07 17:32
phIRCeiTunes Store - Bum Kon - Drunken Sex Sucks | http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum%3Fid%3D278452837%26s%3D143441Oct 07 17:32
phIRCeTop 10 Reasons the Apple Dock Sucks | http://www.asktog.com/columns/044top10docksucks.htmlOct 07 17:32
schestowitzDarn.Oct 07 17:32
DaemonFCa $2,000 iMac benched 3 times slower than the $800 HP Pavilion I just orderedOct 07 17:32
schestowitzYou buy the hardwareOct 07 17:33
schestowitzYou can run Linux on itOct 07 17:33
schestowitzDesign people love the 'style'Oct 07 17:33
DaemonFCI'm not buying some crappy slow overpriced Mac to put Linux on itOct 07 17:33
schestowitzSome love the GUI, but Linux can replicate thisOct 07 17:33
schestowitzThe themes were made simple to install _years_ ago in gnome and kde alikeOct 07 17:33
DaemonFCyou're really just paying 400% premium for a really slow PCOct 07 17:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Parents given jail terms for relying on prayers to save dying daughter http://tinyurl.com/yeas3eaOct 07 17:34
schestowitzDaemonFC: marketing assumes thisOct 07 17:34
DaemonFCyeah, Linux runs on Macs, but you're crazy if you buy a Mac with that intentionOct 07 17:34
schestowitzPeople still pay $75 for a pair of NikeOct 07 17:34
schestowitzWhich based on my experience wears out fasterOct 07 17:35
DaemonFCyou can piece together a ~$400 PC to run Linux on that blows past the $2,000 MacOct 07 17:35
DaemonFCthe Mac is just a waste of $1600Oct 07 17:35
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13880_3-10369192-68.htmlOct 07 17:36
phIRCeTitle: Free disk-imaging utility avoids Windows reinstalls | Workers' Edge - CNET News .::. Size~: 80.07 KBOct 07 17:36
DaemonFC!google conspicuous consumptionOct 07 17:36
phIRCeConspicuous consumption - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspicuous_consumptionOct 07 17:36
phIRCeThe Theory of the Leisure Class - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Theory_of_the_Leisure_ClassOct 07 17:36
phIRCeModern History Sourcebook: Thorstein Veblen: Conspicuous ... | http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1902veblen00.htmlOct 07 17:36
phIRCeWhat is Conspicuous Consumption? | http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-conspicuous-consumption.htmOct 07 17:36
schestowitzDaemonFC: some people have money to spareOct 07 17:36
DaemonFCB-)Oct 07 17:36
schestowitzIt makes them feel like they are worth mreOct 07 17:36
schestowitzAs the Loreal slogan goes (IIRC)Oct 07 17:36
schestowitz"Because you're worth it!"Oct 07 17:36
DaemonFCschestowitz: Tell them I'll be happy to take their excess cashOct 07 17:36
schestowitzVery snobby and stupifying mottoOct 07 17:36
DaemonFCall of it that they can't stand to be aroundOct 07 17:37
schestowitzPeople love buying $2000 suits to feel more confidentOct 07 17:37
schestowitzTHey can enumerate (keep score) of their appearance using valueOct 07 17:37
DaemonFCI'd rather have the PC which costs less than half and is over 3 times fasterOct 07 17:37
DaemonFCwho cares if it has an Apple logo?Oct 07 17:37
DaemonFCwhat a bunch of douchebagsOct 07 17:38
schestowitzThey come to the party and compare price (not worth) of suits to compare one anotherOct 07 17:38
schestowitzIt's like some kind of "penis envy" thing. Just see the Mac adsOct 07 17:38
schestowitzThe message they get across is that the yob is better than business people cause he paid extra for a MacOct 07 17:38
DaemonFCschestowitz: what's funny is when some snobby Mac person uses your PC and it's just so much faster than their MacOct 07 17:38
DaemonFCand they actually admit itOct 07 17:38
schestowitzI don't think they run muchOct 07 17:39
DaemonFChad it happen and it was a $600 HP Pavilion PCOct 07 17:39
schestowitzI never see a Mac with 20 apps openOct 07 17:39
schestowitzmultiple desktops is a new addition to them (circa 1008)Oct 07 17:39
trmancohttp://code.google.com/apis/ajaxsearch/documentation/Oct 07 17:39
phIRCeTitle: Developer's Guide - Google AJAX Search API - Google Code .::. Size~: 56.87 KBOct 07 17:39
schestowitz*2008Oct 07 17:39
trmancothere is the guideOct 07 17:39
trmanco:)Oct 07 17:39
DaemonFCwhat really kills these OEM systems is all the crapware like NortonOct 07 17:39
DaemonFCif I had a dollar for every time I killed a piece of OEM crapware....Oct 07 17:40
DaemonFChalf the time, Norton is hardware to get rid of than the virusOct 07 17:40
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DaemonFCschestowitz: I got one for you. What's the difference between Norton and a virus? .... One installs itself in several pieces, won't give up control of the system without a fight, and holds the system ransom demanding money, and the other one at least gave you some free pornOct 07 17:41
DaemonFC:)Oct 07 17:41
schestowitzhttp://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/10/juniper-joins-the-nyse.htmlOct 07 17:41
schestowitzIt's run by two Microsoft executives nowOct 07 17:42
schestowitzNorton is troubleOct 07 17:42
schestowitzSolution that's a problem ins search of anotherOct 07 17:42
schestowitzhttp://www.bingoparadise.co.uk/bingo-news/bogof-bingo-bet365Oct 07 17:43
Omar871schestowitz: So now, from the way I see it, MS are all most done tightening their grep around Yarmouk University, and they're basically after JUST now.Oct 07 17:43
phIRCeTitle: Bogof Bingo at Bet365 .::. Size~: 23.13 KBOct 07 17:43
schestowitzBingo Linux?Oct 07 17:43
schestowitzwtf?Oct 07 17:43
schestowitz"Two Lines or a Full House on either of the 6pm or 10.30pm Bingo Linux games and Bet365 will double your win."Oct 07 17:43
schestowitzSeems like a trademark issueOct 07 17:44
schestowitzOmar871: maybe they'll sent Ramji over to give a talk to JUST :-)Oct 07 17:44
schestowitzThey tried it with US LUGsOct 07 17:44
schestowitzEmbrace and extendOct 07 17:44
schestowitzHe quitOct 07 17:44
schestowitzBeing a snake wasn't fun to himOct 07 17:44
Omar871schestowitz: Too bad there are no free thinking in YU to resist this misery.Oct 07 17:44
schestowitzThe LUGs hated him and resented Microsoft's attempt to take over LUGsOct 07 17:45
Omar871schestowitz: By didn't Ramji leave?Oct 07 17:45
schestowitzYesOct 07 17:45
Omar871But*Oct 07 17:45
schestowitzHeh.Oct 07 17:45
schestowitzThey'll find some other sellout to play that roleOct 07 17:45
schestowitzZonker sold out to NovellOct 07 17:45
Omar871schestowitz: Maybe they'll send de Icaza now. :)Oct 07 17:45
schestowitzJPerlow knows Zonker betterOct 07 17:45
schestowitzOmar871: I hopeOct 07 17:46
schestowitzThat'll be good for usOct 07 17:46
schestowitzWe'll know where Judas standsOct 07 17:46
schestowitzMany people want him to just work for MicrosoftOct 07 17:46
schestowitzHe's more effective to Microsoft inside FOSSOct 07 17:46
Omar871schestowitz: I have a feeling it's de Icaza. There's almost no one else left on the stage better than him for this role.Oct 07 17:46
Omar871schestowitz: True.Oct 07 17:47
Omar871schestowitz: He's an idiot.Oct 07 17:47
DaemonFCschestowitz: Norton products used to be good, but that was long agoOct 07 17:47
*Omar871 will be back in a couple of hours.Oct 07 17:47
DaemonFCthe last thing I bought was SystemWorks 98 which trashed my copy of Win98Oct 07 17:47
DaemonFCI was so irate I kept calling them til they refunded my moneyOct 07 17:47
schestowitzSpeaking of Nortin, I got a kick a few hours ago watching a professor taking like half a minute to open a PNG I sent himOct 07 17:49
DaemonFCmy aunt is stuck working at this place with some idiot IT NaziOct 07 17:49
schestowitzWindows doesn't really support PNG in the same wayOct 07 17:49
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schestowitzSome Photoshop kicked inOct 07 17:49
DaemonFCwho demands Norton or McAfeeOct 07 17:49
schestowitzWhat a hog that program must beOct 07 17:49
DaemonFCschestowitz: Windows supports PNGOct 07 17:49
trmanco!quit phIRCeOct 07 17:50
*phIRCe has quit ("Exiting! phIRCe - I told you so!(http://bitbucket.org/trmanco/phirce/)")Oct 07 17:50
DaemonFCI can open a PNG with Windows 2000, your professor can't double click?Oct 07 17:50
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trmanco!google microsoft is evilOct 07 17:51
phIRCeThe Daily Poll: Is Microsoft Still Evil? | http://mashable.com/2008/02/27/microsoft-evil-poll/Oct 07 17:51
phIRCeIs Microsoft's Silverlight evil? • The Register | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/12/evil_silverlight/Oct 07 17:51
phIRCeBBspot - Microsoft Purchases Evil From Satan | http://www.bbspot.com/News/2000/4/MS_Buys_Evil.htmlOct 07 17:51
phIRCeWhy Microsoft is evil@Everything2.com | http://everything2.com/title/Why%2BMicrosoft%2Bis%2BevilOct 07 17:51
trmancothere you goOct 07 17:51
DaemonFCWindows image/fax preview opens them per default, but you can right click and click Edit and Windows will open whatever program is registered to edit the imageOct 07 17:51
schestowitzDaemonFC: not in the same wayOct 07 17:51
DaemonFCplenty of freeware for thatOct 07 17:51
schestowitzTransparency and allOct 07 17:51
DaemonFCyeah, Paint.Net, Gimp, etc.Oct 07 17:52
schestowitztrmanco: enumerate the results maybeOct 07 17:52
DaemonFCI'm sure Vista Paint supports alpha transparencyOct 07 17:52
DaemonFCnot sure about XPOct 07 17:52
DaemonFC7 does itOct 07 17:52
trmancoschestowitz: like whatOct 07 17:52
schestowitz"(1)"Oct 07 17:52
trmancomaybe [1] :-POct 07 17:52
DaemonFCMSIE is comically bad though, so he may have tried opening it with thatOct 07 17:53
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DaemonFCMSIE only supports PNG transparency as of version 7Oct 07 17:53
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schestowitztrmanco: yes, that would make it more readableOct 07 17:53
DaemonFClots of universities probably still use IE 6 per the IT CzarOct 07 17:54
trmanco!quit phIRCeOct 07 17:54
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trmanco!google testOct 07 17:54
phIRCe[1] Test.com Web Based Testing and Certification Software v2.0 | http://www.test.com/Oct 07 17:54
phIRCe[1] Speakeasy - Speed Test | http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/Oct 07 17:54
phIRCe[1] Personality test based on Jung - Myers-Briggs typology | http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.aspOct 07 17:54
phIRCe[1] NerdTests.com Fun Tests - Nerd Quiz | http://www.nerdtests.com/ft_nq.phpOct 07 17:54
trmancooopsOct 07 17:55
DaemonFCschestowitz: I'd suggest beating him with a clue stick til he can find his way around Windows, it's not brain surgeryOct 07 17:55
DaemonFC:)Oct 07 17:55
trmanco!quit phIRCeOct 07 17:55
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trmanco!google testOct 07 17:55
phIRCe[2] - Test.com Web Based Testing and Certification Software v2.0 | http://www.test.com/Oct 07 17:55
phIRCe[3] - Speakeasy - Speed Test | http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/Oct 07 17:55
phIRCe[4] - Personality test based on Jung - Myers-Briggs typology | http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.aspOct 07 17:55
phIRCe[5] - NerdTests.com Fun Tests - Nerd Quiz | http://www.nerdtests.com/ft_nq.phpOct 07 17:55
trmanco...Oct 07 17:56
DaemonFCmost computer problems sit in the chair in front of the keyboardOct 07 17:56
trmanco!quit phIRCeOct 07 17:56
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trmancoit should be right nowOct 07 17:56
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DaemonFCmmhmOct 07 17:56
trmanco!google testOct 07 17:56
phIRCe[1] - Test.com Web Based Testing and Certification Software v2.0 | http://www.test.com/Oct 07 17:56
phIRCe[2] - Speakeasy - Speed Test | http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/Oct 07 17:56
phIRCe[3] - Personality test based on Jung - Myers-Briggs typology | http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.aspOct 07 17:56
phIRCe[4] - NerdTests.com Fun Tests - Nerd Quiz | http://www.nerdtests.com/ft_nq.phpOct 07 17:56
trmancothis json stuff is robustOct 07 17:56
DaemonFCI've decided to repurpose the 500 GB hard disk from that trashed Gateway system for FreeBSD on my new systemOct 07 17:57
DaemonFCApparently Windows 7 supports SLI/Crossfire between two different types or brands of video cardOct 07 17:58
DaemonFCI might test out how that works since I have a spare PCI-E x16 slotOct 07 17:58
schestowitztrmanco: great jobOct 07 17:59
DaemonFCSomething tells me it won't work as advertisedOct 07 17:59
trmancothanksOct 07 17:59
schestowitzDaemonFC: let's not delve into Vista 7 marketingOct 07 17:59
schestowitzThere's enough of this paid-for fluff in the 'news'Oct 07 17:59
DaemonFCI wonder what Linux will do when it sees themOct 07 18:00
schestowitz[disclosure: Microsoft sent us an early copy  to review]Oct 07 18:00
DaemonFCthey did?Oct 07 18:00
schestowitzWith Free software there can't be schwagOct 07 18:00
schestowitzCause it's usually free (gratis)Oct 07 18:00
schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/10/07/email-open-rates-up-18Oct 07 18:01
phIRCeTitle: Email Open Rates Up 18% | WebProNews .::. Size~: 30.39 KBOct 07 18:01
schestowitz!google trmancoOct 07 18:01
phIRCe[1] - trmanco.com | http://trmanco.com/Oct 07 18:01
phIRCe[2] - Tony Manco (trmanco) - Identi.ca | http://identi.ca/trmancoOct 07 18:01
phIRCe[3] - Tony Manco (trmanco) on Twitter | http://twitter.com/trmancoOct 07 18:01
phIRCe[4] - trmanco on deviantART | http://trmanco.deviantart.com/Oct 07 18:01
DaemonFCdisclaimer: I have no Microsoft freebies at allOct 07 18:01
trmancoLOLOct 07 18:01
trmancoyou stalker you :-POct 07 18:01
schestowitz!google microsoft bribesOct 07 18:01
phIRCe[1] - Microsoft bribes apple staff - The Inquirer | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1534311/microsoft-bribes-apple-staffOct 07 18:01
phIRCe[2] - Microsoft bribes Apple retail managers and staff | CEOWORLD Magazine | http://ceoworld.biz/ceo/2009/09/22/microsoft-bribes-apple-retail-managers-and-staff/Oct 07 18:01
phIRCe[3] - Slashdot | Microsoft Bribing Bloggers With Laptops | http://slashdot.org/articles/06/12/27/1423234.shtmlOct 07 18:01
phIRCe[4] - Microsoft bribes again? - Computerworld Blogs | http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_bribes_againOct 07 18:01
DaemonFCwhen you see me in a Windows hat drinking out of my Windows mug wearing my Windows underwear, you can call me Chris PirilloOct 07 18:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] http://bit.ly/2QShUm Is totally great! Going to record the kids as voices for my TomTom :)Oct 07 18:02
phIRCeTitle: GNU/Linux and the TomTom ONE .::. Size~: 11.55 KBOct 07 18:02
schestowitz!google jack thompson trollOct 07 18:02
phIRCe[1] - Industry Rant: Video Game Censor Troll Jack Thompson Is A Good Guy? | http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Industry-Rant-Video-Game-Censor-Troll-Jack-Thompson-Is-A-Good-Guy-18716.htmlOct 07 18:02
phIRCe[2] - Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | Jack Thompson Sues Facebook ... | http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/10/01/0315246/Jack-Thompson-Sues-Facebook-For-40M%3Ffrom%3DrssOct 07 18:02
phIRCe[3] - Bungie.net : Off Topic: The Flood : Obvious Troll is Obvious ... | http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx%3FpostID%3D37029712Oct 07 18:02
phIRCe[4] - demotivational posters - Trolls - They support Jack Hitle- I mean ... | http://www.motivatedphotos.com/%3Fid%3D25912Oct 07 18:02
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schestowitzDaemonFC: he doesn't have underwearOct 07 18:03
schestowitzHe has soft wearOct 07 18:03
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Oct 07 18:03
DaemonFCJack Thompson is irrelevant because video game industry is filthy rich and will keep giving generously to congressional and senatorial election campaign fundsOct 07 18:03
schestowitzhttp://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ZN15fhwGTrhOHM:http://api.ning.com/files/Q6ATQ518EysDvtc8HcfBGMooEiVDcnt0SWS*q0NnIRXaaitFO8mqcYymJdumtJ01yIXJ4hMSUA0jcwKbZuiFPdC-mK7yrKEu/pirilloalaska.jpgOct 07 18:03
phIRCeTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 07 18:03
DaemonFCand because he's a moron and a stooge and is so insane he's been banned from filing any more motions in the state of FloridaOct 07 18:04
DaemonFCfor handing the judge gay pornOct 07 18:04
schestowitzPirillo in Alaska with Palin: http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:J1fKDmAufHzwCM:http://api.ning.com/files/f3IDSqLIV2T6ITbJVtYdDzgNUydMF5obrESWBjRrdObMVZAZFbUTdu19pAWkAWR1FOp4kQGkC8*Rlame4JxegNAf3nIfjj7a/pirilloalaska.jpgOct 07 18:05
phIRCeTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 07 18:05
DaemonFC!google jack thompson gay pornOct 07 18:05
phIRCe[1] - Jack Thompson submits gay porn to court -- judge not amused | http://www.joystiq.com/2007/09/26/jack-thompson-submits-gay-porn-to-court-judge-not-amused/Oct 07 18:05
phIRCe[2] - Jack Thompson might go down in gay porn shocker • The Register | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/28/thompson_gay_porn/Oct 07 18:05
phIRCe[3] - Jack Thompson reprimanded for attaching gay porn in lawsuit | http://digg.com/gaming_news/Jack_Thompson_reprimanded_for_attaching_gay_porn_in_lawsuitOct 07 18:05
phIRCe[4] - Slashdot | Jack Thompson Includes Gay Porn With Court Filing | http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl%3Fsid%3D07/09/26/185247Oct 07 18:05
trmancololOct 07 18:05
DaemonFCmmhmOct 07 18:05
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schestowitzFlorida jusges should therefore also ban Pirillo: http://jchutchins.net/site/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/hottie_pirillo.pngOct 07 18:06
phIRCeTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/png type .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 07 18:06
schestowitzWhat's this guy's problem?Oct 07 18:06
schestowitzHugging a keyboard in his Web site.....Oct 07 18:06
schestowitzNow getting naked for a shot with his laptop.Oct 07 18:06
DaemonFCPirillo is becoming less a Windows shill and more of a Mac shill latelyOct 07 18:07
schestowitzCompuphilaOct 07 18:07
schestowitzMaybe they send him stuffOct 07 18:07
DaemonFCstill takes ample time to bag on Linux for no good reasonOct 07 18:07
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schestowitzMicrosoft will be piss poor if they can't charge for Vista 7 more than 50 bucksOct 07 18:07
DaemonFCschestowitz: I get the upgrade disc free with this computer I orderedOct 07 18:08
DaemonFCso does it count as a Win7 sale or a Vista sale?Oct 07 18:08
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schestowitzmaybe bothOct 07 18:08
schestowitzWhichever Microsoft wantsOct 07 18:09
schestowitzThat's what they did with XPOct 07 18:09
DaemonFCI would have gotten one without Vista on it except that none of the Linux shops do easy pay/0% financingOct 07 18:09
schestowitzThey counted XP as 2 Vista salesOct 07 18:09
DaemonFCcertainly not without a credit checkOct 07 18:09
DaemonFCI would have gotten so raped with financing that it would have cost me $200+ more to avoid VistaOct 07 18:09
schestowitzSomeone just mailed me this: "Microsoft Jack on malware"Oct 07 18:10
DaemonFCthat's if someone did approve itOct 07 18:10
schestowitz"Oct 07 18:10
schestowitz'Stepping up the work for consumers who are unable or unwilling to payOct 07 18:10
schestowitzfor protection is what it's about,'Oct 07 18:10
schestowitz"with the move to social engineering attacks, there isn't a technicalOct 07 18:10
schestowitzfix that would remove the malware problem completely"Oct 07 18:10
schestowitzGet the msg, the malware infestation is caused by social engineeringOct 07 18:10
schestowitzand not defects in the underlying platform.Oct 07 18:10
schestowitz"Windows 7 and IE8 represent a huge advance on Windows XP and IE6,Oct 07 18:10
schestowitzfrom that point of view. Whether that will be enough remains to beOct 07 18:10
schestowitzseen"Oct 07 18:10
schestowitzRemember when XP was supposed final thing in security. And the articleOct 07 18:10
schestowitzmanaged to not mention Vista, the one that didn't need a firewall orOct 07 18:10
schestowitzantivirus ...Oct 07 18:10
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/sep/30/microsoft-security-essentials-internet-explorer-8Oct 07 18:10
schestowitz"Oct 07 18:10
DaemonFCI've been using Security EssentialsOct 07 18:10
DaemonFCI've used it on my own PC and to decontaminate some pwned "Norton-protected" systemsOct 07 18:11
schestowitzhttp://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/1043_signs.jpgOct 07 18:12
phIRCeTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 07 18:12
DaemonFCusually the malware cripples Norton but allows enough of it to keep working that Windows thinks it is still functioningOct 07 18:12
DaemonFCthen proceeds to shutdown Windows Firewall and corrupt Windows UpdatesOct 07 18:12
DaemonFCeven if you clear the infection, Windows can remain damaged and require a format/reinstallOct 07 18:13
DaemonFConce the malware gets in, it's probably all overOct 07 18:13
schestowitz340 comments-> http://blogs.computerworld.com/london_stock_exchange_to_abandon_failed_windows_platformOct 07 18:14
phIRCeTitle: London Stock Exchange to abandon failed Windows platform - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 134.36 KBOct 07 18:14
schestowitz Gentoo Linux anniversary LiveDVD 10.0Oct 07 18:15
schestowitzNice coverOct 07 18:15
DaemonFCusually, the only point in disinfecting a Windows system is to make it functional enough to salvage data before formattingOct 07 18:15
DaemonFCit's a nice profitable vicious cycle that computer repair shops prey on the free roaming stupid withOct 07 18:17
schestowitz"Update: Looks like Photoshop Disaster's ISP caved to a similar notice."Oct 07 18:18
schestowitzhttp://www.boingboing.net/2009/10/06/the-criticism-that-r.htmlOct 07 18:18
phIRCeTitle: The criticism that Ralph Lauren doesn't want you to see! .::. Size~: 330.15 KBOct 07 18:18
schestowitzLet's put Ralph on a deadly dietOct 07 18:18
schestowitzUntil he looks like this photoshopped/GIMPed model  :-)Oct 07 18:18
schestowitzhttp://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/audi-etron/Oct 07 18:19
phIRCeTitle: Watch Out, Tesla, Audis e-Tron Is Coming | Autopia | Wired.com .::. Size~: 80.88 KBOct 07 18:20
schestowitzhttp://philosecurity.org/2009/09/07/what-does-dhs-know-about-youOct 07 18:20
phIRCeTitle: philosecurity  » Blog Archive   » What Does DHS Know About You? .::. Size~: 44.78 KBOct 07 18:20
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/06/unisys_reverse_split/Oct 07 18:21
phIRCeTitle: Unisys announces 10-to-1 stock compression • The Register .::. Size~: 24.39 KBOct 07 18:21
schestowitzPontiac not out of business yet? http://jalopnik.com/5375647/exclusive-delorean-motor-company-contemplating-building-pontiac-solsticeOct 07 18:22
phIRCeTitle: EXCLUSIVE: DeLorean Motor Company Contemplating Building Pontiac Solstice - Pontiac Solstice - Jalopnik .::. Size~: 61.76 KBOct 07 18:22
schestowitzhttp://www.cdapress.com/articles/2009/10/07/business/bus01.txtOct 07 18:22
schestowitz"Researchers at the University of Idaho have created a single computer chip more powerful than 17,000 Intel quad core processors that runs on .03 percent of the power those chips would require."Oct 07 18:22
phIRCeTitle: Less is more - Coeur d'Alene Press Newspaper - Local and National News - Kootenai County, Idaho .::. Size~: 43.54 KBOct 07 18:22
schestowitzSounds fakeOct 07 18:22
schestowitzFake figures?Oct 07 18:23
schestowitzLike that kid who was claimed to have stored a lot of data on a piece of paper...Oct 07 18:23
JPerlowsad to watch that happen to unisysOct 07 18:24
schestowitz===Oct 07 18:24
schestowitz> "The software company's head of consumer security discusses its freeOct 07 18:24
schestowitz> anti-virus service, Internet Explorer 8 and the decline of phishing"Oct 07 18:24
schestowitz>Oct 07 18:24
schestowitz> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/sep/30/microsoft-security-essentials-internet-explorer-8Oct 07 18:24
schestowitz>Oct 07 18:24
schestowitz> "Massive Phishing Campaign Hits Multiple Email Services"Oct 07 18:24
schestowitz>Oct 07 18:24
schestowitz> http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/10/07/1616236/Massive-Phishing-Campaign-Hits-Multiple-Email-ServicesOct 07 18:24
phIRCeTitle: Slashdot Technology Story | Massive Phishing Campaign Hits Multiple Email Services .::. Size~: 73.29 KBOct 07 18:24
schestowitzJack does MS PR/adverts. Better to ignore him. Like the company he covers, he's a dinosair.Oct 07 18:24
schestowitz=Oct 07 18:25
schestowitzJPerlow: Microsoft goes the same way as UnisysteOct 07 18:25
schestowitzI read it somewhereOct 07 18:25
schestowitz:-pOct 07 18:25
schestowitz!google perlow unisys microsoftOct 07 18:25
phIRCe[1] - Microsoft: Litigate on FAT, and you'll be the next Unisys | Tech ... | http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/%3Fp%3D9594Oct 07 18:25
phIRCe[2] - Jason Perlow - LinkedIn | http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jason-perlow/1/4b7/144Oct 07 18:25
phIRCe[3] - Unisys: Definition and additional resources from ZDNet | http://dictionary.zdnet.com/definition/unisys.htmlOct 07 18:25
phIRCe[4] - TomTom Case is Closed, But the Fight Over FAT Can Hurt Microsoft ... | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/04/tomtom-case-is-concluded/Oct 07 18:25
JPerlowwell, unisys was once a big service provider for MSOct 07 18:26
schestowitzHeh. BoycottNovell at #4Oct 07 18:26
schestowitzhttp://www.linkedin.com/pub/jason-perlow/1/4b7/144Oct 07 18:26
schestowitz# The Greater IBM Connection: IBM's alumni program for past and present IBM employeesOct 07 18:26
phIRCeTitle: Jason Perlow - LinkedIn  .::. Size~: 23.45 KBOct 07 18:26
schestowitz# Unisys - Ever Worked - Employees and Contractors    Unisys - Ever Worked - Employees and ContractorsOct 07 18:26
schestowitz#   Unisys Reconnected    Unisys ReconnectedOct 07 18:27
JPerlowwhat is this, an inquisition? lolOct 07 18:28
schestowitz:-)Oct 07 18:28
schestowitzg2g bblOct 07 18:28
DaemonFChmmm, some guy was bragging about buying a Core i7 to me a while backOct 07 18:29
*jono has quit (Remote closed the connection)Oct 07 18:29
DaemonFClooks like they're about $600 and only about 20% faster than a $170 Phenom II X4Oct 07 18:30
DaemonFCso for 350% the price you get a 20% performance improvementOct 07 18:30
DaemonFCsounds like money well spent :POct 07 18:30
JPerlowfor me its all about the cache on the cpu and how much memoryOct 07 18:32
JPerlowand to some extent number of coresOct 07 18:32
*jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 18:34
DaemonFCJPerlow: Can never have too many coresOct 07 18:37
DaemonFCI'd take more cores before higher clockOct 07 18:37
DaemonFCor amount of cacheOct 07 18:37
DaemonFCwithin reasonOct 07 18:37
DaemonFCthe kind of workload people are running now calls for a CPU that's more like a set of stream processorsOct 07 18:38
DaemonFChaving one or two brutishly powerful cores will only get you so farOct 07 18:38
DaemonFCspawning worker threads that each do a small amount of a larger problem on their own dedicated core is where it's all going, like the CellOct 07 18:40
DaemonFCthe desktop version will likely be x86-64 based thoughOct 07 18:41
DaemonFCJPerlow: It's like saying, you can have 2, 3, or 4 really strong really tough construction workers working on ripping up and repaving a road or you can have 100 averagely built guysOct 07 18:42
DaemonFCthe 100 guys would probably still get done much fasterOct 07 18:42
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DaemonFCeventually, I think you'll see one or two really fast x86 cores breaking up a workload and feeding it to 100 stream processorsOct 07 18:44
bozo_128 stream processors. 2 for every bit of the data bussOct 07 18:47
DaemonFCbut more importantly, things like GPUs will become heavy lifters with OpenCL and DirectX ComputeOct 07 18:47
DaemonFCas usual, what is a $15,000 computer now will be the $800 special in 5 yearsOct 07 18:48
*twitter2 (n=pbj@97-113-231-152.tukw.qwest.net) has left #boycottnovellOct 07 18:55
JPerlowactually I feel the x86 architecture is an evolutionary dead end.Oct 07 18:57
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DaemonFCI cancelled the HP desktop :POct 07 19:12
DaemonFC*canceledOct 07 19:12
DaemonFChttp://www.qvc.com/qic/qvcapp.aspx/view.2/app.detail/params.CM_SCID.coll.item.E206688.desc.ZT-Affinity-7329Ma-Desktop-PC-wAMD-Phenom-IIx4945-QuadCoreOct 07 19:12
phIRCeTitle: ZT Affinity 7329Ma Desktop PC w/AMD Phenom IIx4945 Quad-Core - QVC.com .::. Size~: 106.93 KBOct 07 19:12
DaemonFCgot that insteadOct 07 19:12
DaemonFCgot to keep your eyes out for the best dealOct 07 19:17
DaemonFCthis system is about 20% faster and $200 cheaper and not a nightmare to upgradeOct 07 19:18
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 19:19
DaemonFCnow that I saved some $$$s, off to find a GPUOct 07 19:23
DaemonFChmmm, made in USAOct 07 19:24
DaemonFCsweetOct 07 19:24
DaemonFCyou don't see that with HPOct 07 19:24
DaemonFCTaiwan and China maybeOct 07 19:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] could a dentist really endorse FLOSS Weekly or would it need to be a daily show?Oct 07 19:26
DaemonFCthink I'll get the RadeonHD 4670Oct 07 19:41
DaemonFCI'm sure that 300 Watt PSU culd handle itOct 07 19:42
DaemonFCthe entire load of the system as is shouldn't be more than 140-150 Watts anywayOct 07 19:42
DaemonFCno way the card would use over 60Oct 07 19:42
Omar871Hi all.Oct 07 19:46
DaemonFCheh, I was off by 1 wattOct 07 19:54
DaemonFCit uses 59 wattsOct 07 19:54
DaemonFCI'm good B-)Oct 07 19:54
trmancohttp://qt.nokia.com/doc/4.5/index.htmlOct 07 19:56
phIRCeTitle: Qt 4.5: Qt Reference Documentation (Full Framework Edition) .::. Size~: 8.15 KBOct 07 19:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] in further news, chiropractors continue not only to be fraudulent slanderous scum, but failed fraudulent slanderous scum http://is.gd/438YxOct 07 20:07
phIRCeTitle: Sense About Science | Complaint about Simon Singh and the Keep Libel Laws out of Science campaign .::. Size~: 26.4 KBOct 07 20:07
trmanco!google qt designer ubuntuOct 07 20:07
phIRCe[1] - QT-Designer? - Ubuntu Forums | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php%3Ft%3D124728Oct 07 20:07
phIRCe[2] - Qt Designer - Popular ideas - Ubuntu brainstorm | http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/qt-designer/Oct 07 20:07
phIRCe[3] - Idea sandbox - Ubuntu brainstorm | http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/qt-designer/ideas_in_preparation/Oct 07 20:07
phIRCe[4] - Qt-interest Archive - qt4 designer looks so ugly in ubuntu | http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-interest/2007-04/msg00667.htmlOct 07 20:07
trmanco:DOct 07 20:07
*sebsebseb (n=sebastia@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 20:07
sebsebsebhiOct 07 20:07
trmancohelloOct 07 20:07
Omar871heyOct 07 20:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Today I learned how to parse Json in PHP... great stuff :DOct 07 20:13
schestowitz2006: Miguel says "Mono" instead of "GNOME" (around minute 10): http://www.twit.tv/floss5Oct 07 20:22
phIRCeTitle: The TWiT Netcast Network with Leo Laporte .::. Size~: 22.77 KBOct 07 20:22
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.44.71.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 20:24
schestowitz!google miguelOct 07 20:24
phIRCe[1] - Miguel de Icaza | http://tirania.org/blog/Oct 07 20:24
phIRCe[2] - Miguel on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music ... | http://www.myspace.com/miguelOct 07 20:24
phIRCe[3] - Miguel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiguelOct 07 20:24
phIRCe[4] - Police say Detroit Tigers first baseman Miguel Cabrera scratched ... | http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story%3Fid%3D4532687Oct 07 20:24
schestowitz!google miguel .net orlowskiOct 07 20:25
phIRCe[1] - Gnome to be based on .NET [The Register] | http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS5446338063.htmlOct 07 20:25
phIRCe[2] - Teresa Orlowski Torrent Download And Streaming - SUMOTorrent.com | http://www.sumotorrent.com/en/search/teresa%2Borlowski.htmlOct 07 20:25
phIRCe[3] - Techmeme: SpinVox: Patricia Russo joins, quits almost immediately ... | http://www.techmeme.com/090818/p49Oct 07 20:25
phIRCe[4] - Codango: ASP.NET Scripting Comparison - ASP.NET code, control ... | http://www.codango.com/aspnet/dir/references/scriptin2/%3Fsort%3Drating%26order%3DdescOct 07 20:25
schestowitz Gnome to be based on .NET [The Register]Oct 07 20:25
schestowitzHe basically said that Cox helped code Mono... instead of GNOMEOct 07 20:25
schestowitzIt's as though he thinks of them as the same thingOct 07 20:25
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-148-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 20:26
schestowitzHey, _Hicham_Oct 07 20:26
_Hicham_hey, senior schestowitzOct 07 20:26
_Hicham_howdy?Oct 07 20:26
schestowitzYour friend DaemonFC has newsOct 07 20:26
_Hicham_any news ?Oct 07 20:26
_Hicham_what ?Oct 07 20:26
_Hicham_got jailed ?Oct 07 20:26
schestowitzHe survivedOct 07 20:26
_Hicham_wowOct 07 20:26
_Hicham_did he have an accident ?Oct 07 20:27
schestowitzYou did witchcraft on him !!Oct 07 20:27
schestowitz_Hicham_: !google daemonfc seizuresOct 07 20:27
schestowitztrmanco: ^error?Oct 07 20:27
trmancowhere?Oct 07 20:28
schestowitzCan it only be invoked at start of line?Oct 07 20:28
schestowitzhttp://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/10/dont_let_hacker.htmlOct 07 20:28
phIRCeTitle: Schneier on Security: Don't Let Hacker Inmates Reprogram Prison Computers .::. Size~: 32.52 KBOct 07 20:28
trmancoyesOct 07 20:29
trmancoit has toOct 07 20:29
MinceRit had better :)Oct 07 20:29
MinceRit would lead to all kinds of havoc otherwiseOct 07 20:29
trmancololOct 07 20:29
trmancoyesOct 07 20:29
schestowitz_Hicham_: check out what trmanco codedOct 07 20:29
schestowitz!google daemonfc seizuresOct 07 20:29
phIRCe[1] - IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 29th, 2009 | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/irc-log-29092009.htmlOct 07 20:29
phIRCe[2] - IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 5th, 2009 | http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/irc-log-05062009.htmlOct 07 20:29
trmancostrangeOct 07 20:30
trmancoonly 2 resultsOct 07 20:30
schestowitzNoOct 07 20:30
schestowitzThe two are tiedOct 07 20:30
schestowitzIt doesn't deal well with itOct 07 20:30
*trmanco sniffs more Google api docsOct 07 20:30
schestowitzIt seems like quite a lot of sites copy BNOct 07 20:31
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en-GB&q=daemonfc+seizures+&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8Oct 07 20:31
phIRCeTitle: daemonfc seizures - Google Search .::. Size~: 20.75 KBOct 07 20:31
_Hicham_trmanco : u doing some python stuff ?Oct 07 20:31
trmanconoOct 07 20:31
trmancobut I'm sure it would be easy to port itOct 07 20:31
trmancopython is pretty straightforwardOct 07 20:31
trmancoI use to have the opposite opinion about it until I've read the docs and a bookOct 07 20:32
trmancoe-bookOct 07 20:32
_Hicham_schestowitz : trolling caused DaemonFC's seizuresOct 07 20:33
_Hicham_I warned himOct 07 20:33
_Hicham_but he was stubbornOct 07 20:33
*narendra has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))Oct 07 20:33
*narendra (n=narendra@122.161.25.18) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 20:34
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/06/baha-mousa-witness-abuse-soldiers '"I recall a soldier urinated on me," he said. "I could feel the urine seeping through my hood and running down my arms." He added that a container was then placed on to his mouth.'Oct 07 20:34
schestowitzhttp://pol.moveon.org/afghan_exit/Oct 07 20:35
MinceRnow they're telling the soldiers, "urine big trouble now!"Oct 07 20:36
schestowitzping zoobabOct 07 20:36
schestowitzThe Zuck shill steps in re: EU caseOct 07 20:36
schestowitzNeelie got bamboozled againOct 07 20:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Redd could be the cornerstone of a Copenhagen deal, putting forests at the frontline of tackling climate change for the first time" htt ...Oct 07 20:37
*narendra has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Oct 07 20:37
schestowitzMinceR: they don't take that s*Oct 07 20:37
_Hicham_schestowitz : that what the US is calling human rightsOct 07 20:37
MinceRthey only care about number one? :>Oct 07 20:37
Omar871schestowitz: Would you like to start with the article now?Oct 07 20:38
schestowitzOh No.Oct 07 20:39
schestowitzPeter is trolling Ken again. http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=an_open_letter_to_steve_ballmer_didn_t_y&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1Oct 07 20:39
phIRCeTitle: Penguin Pete's Blog .::. Size~: 27.61 KBOct 07 20:39
schestowitz_Hicham_: they need to self.SpreadDemocracy();Oct 07 20:39
schestowitzBefore going abroadOct 07 20:39
schestowitzLet me find something re Kuwait.Oct 07 20:39
_Hicham_and then they call muslims terroristsOct 07 20:40
schestowitz_Hicham_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpHUoJdxpPY I think it's in the second partOct 07 20:40
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Operation Dissidence with Noam Chomsky 1/3 .::. Size~: 106.13 KBOct 07 20:40
schestowitzLet me try to find itOct 07 20:41
trmancohaOct 07 20:41
trmancofound itOct 07 20:41
trmancohttp://code.google.com/apis/ajaxsearch/documentation/reference.html#_restUrlBaseOct 07 20:41
phIRCeTitle: Class Reference - Google AJAX Search API - Google Code .::. Size~: 281.82 KBOct 07 20:41
Omar871schestowitz: Busy?Oct 07 20:41
schestowitzAhOct 07 20:42
Diablo-D3http://www.strangecosmos.com/content/item/154548.htmlOct 07 20:42
phIRCeTitle: STRANGE ZOO PARKING ATTENDANT MAKES OFF WITH MILLIONS! .::. Size~: 25.28 KBOct 07 20:42
Diablo-D3that guy is a heroOct 07 20:42
schestowitzFound it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpHUoJdxpPY#t=300 (time: 5:00)Oct 07 20:42
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Operation Dissidence with Noam Chomsky 1/3 .::. Size~: 105.97 KBOct 07 20:42
schestowitzDaemonFC needs to be liberated :-DOct 07 20:43
schestowitzMedical billsOct 07 20:43
schestowitzInstead of ammunition and gunships :-DOct 07 20:43
_Hicham_poor DaemonFCOct 07 20:43
_Hicham_victim of the US DreamOct 07 20:43
schestowitzI don't get it: http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=a_povray_modeler_some_progress&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1Oct 07 20:44
phIRCeTitle: Penguin Pete's Blog .::. Size~: 24.9 KBOct 07 20:44
schestowitzI used a good povray editor like half a decade agoOct 07 20:44
schestowitzAnd this guy complaints there's none for Linux; he just ain't looking properly.Oct 07 20:44
trmancoare 4 search result ideal?Oct 07 20:46
*schestowitz trying to find something.. http://www.google.com/search?q=site:beranger.org+medical&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-GBOct 07 20:46
phIRCeTitle: site:beranger.org medical - Google Search .::. Size~: 25.39 KBOct 07 20:46
schestowitzBeranger has a good post showing the state of US health care]Oct 07 20:46
schestowitzWith photosOct 07 20:46
schestowitztrmanco: maybe 3Oct 07 20:46
trmancocant do 3Oct 07 20:46
trmanco4 or 8Oct 07 20:46
schestowitzI give up, I can't find it./ http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/2009/04/07/same-broken-world-whole-new-territory/Oct 07 20:47
phIRCeTitle: Planète Béranger v3    » Same Broken World, Whole New Territory .::. Size~: 46.84 KBOct 07 20:48
schestowitzHe still blogs, I see... he said he quit. http://beranger.org/v3/wordpress/Oct 07 20:48
phIRCeTitle: Planète Béranger v3   .::. Size~: 53.76 KBOct 07 20:48
trmanco!quit phIRCeOct 07 20:51
*phIRCe has quit ("Exiting! phIRCe - I told you so!(http://bitbucket.org/trmanco/phirce/)")Oct 07 20:51
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trmanco!google ubuntuOct 07 20:51
phIRCe[1] - Ubuntu Home Page | Ubuntu | http://www.ubuntu.com/Oct 07 20:51
phIRCe[2] - Download Ubuntu | Ubuntu | http://www.ubuntu.com/GetUbuntu/downloadOct 07 20:51
phIRCe[3] - Ubuntu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UbuntuOct 07 20:51
phIRCe[4] - ubuntu - a community-focused restaurant and yoga studio in napa ... | http://www.ubuntunapa.com/Oct 07 20:51
*[H]omer has quit ("reset by beer")Oct 07 20:52
_Hicham_!google trmancoOct 07 20:52
phIRCe[1] - trmanco.com | http://trmanco.com/Oct 07 20:52
phIRCe[2] - Tony Manco (trmanco) - Identi.ca | http://identi.ca/trmancoOct 07 20:52
phIRCe[3] - Tony Manco (trmanco) on Twitter | http://twitter.com/trmancoOct 07 20:52
phIRCe[4] - trmanco on deviantART | http://trmanco.deviantart.com/Oct 07 20:52
trmanconot againOct 07 20:52
Omar871trmanco: I'm loving this bot. :-)Oct 07 20:52
trmancoI should block thisOct 07 20:52
trmancothanks Omar871Oct 07 20:53
Omar871trmanco, welcome.Oct 07 20:53
schestowitzhttp://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3842626/Shuttleworth-at-LinuxCon-Will-Ubuntu-Lead-Free-Software.htmOct 07 20:54
phIRCeTitle: Shuttleworth at LinuxCon: Will Ubuntu Lead Free Software? &mdash; Datamation.com .::. Size~: 71.23 KBOct 07 20:54
schestowitzThey can't leave him aloneOct 07 20:54
schestowitzAgain turning attention away from the talk and intro feminismOct 07 20:55
*narendra (n=narendra@122.161.25.18) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 20:56
schestowitzopen source used to discredit Free software: http://www.fiercecontentmanagement.com/story/does-open-source-label-still-matter/2009-10-06Oct 07 20:57
phIRCeTitle: Does the open-source label still matter? - FierceContentManagement .::. Size~: 34 KBOct 07 20:57
schestowitzhttp://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/10/the-day-the-netbook-died.htmlOct 07 20:58
phIRCeTitle: The Day The Netbook Died - O'Reilly Broadcast .::. Size~: 57.29 KBOct 07 20:58
MinceRi think i've figured out the secret of compiling kde3 on new distro releasesOct 07 20:59
MinceRthe secret is using gcc-4.2 :)Oct 07 20:59
trmancohehOct 07 20:59
_Hicham_MinceR : why kde3 now that kde4 is stable ?Oct 07 21:01
MinceRi want to install bothOct 07 21:01
MinceRalso, what that distro considers stable is kde4.2 which i know isn't good enough yetOct 07 21:01
_Hicham_there is kde3Oct 07 21:02
_Hicham_i mean kde 4.3Oct 07 21:02
MinceRalso, i already know i'm going to keep kpdf instead of okularOct 07 21:03
MinceRunless they fix the UI of the latter :>Oct 07 21:03
*Xarver (n=kenny@cpe-76-173-101-172.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 21:03
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/10/07/flying-chairlet-tony-manco/Oct 07 21:04
phIRCeTitle: Septembers Golden Flying Chairlet Award Goes to Tony Manco | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 90.18 KBOct 07 21:04
schestowitzhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzU4NQOct 07 21:05
phIRCeTitle: [Phoronix] KDE 4.3.2 Makes It Out With Some Enhancements .::. Size~: 15.18 KBOct 07 21:05
schestowitzNow we just need gcc 4.3.2Oct 07 21:05
schestowitzJPerlow: Hess didn't know there were free PDF viewersOct 07 21:06
_Hicham_we need gcc-4.4Oct 07 21:06
schestowitzRMS knows free software packages very wellOct 07 21:07
_Hicham_distros not using latest gcc should be bannedOct 07 21:07
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schestowitzhttp://www.ecrans.fr/Mark-Shuttleworth-Le-libre-ne,8290.htmlOct 07 21:15
schestowitz_Hicham_: you can read itOct 07 21:16
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schestowitzGreat news! http://www.dutchdailynews.com/dutch-police-goes-open-source/Oct 07 21:18
phIRCeTitle: Dutch police goes open source .::. Size~: 15.38 KBOct 07 21:18
JPerlowschestowitz: who didnt know there were PDF viewers?Oct 07 21:19
schestowitzKennethOct 07 21:19
JPerlowhe knewOct 07 21:19
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JPerlowhe was leading the questionsOct 07 21:19
schestowitzThe thing is, I thought it was you who were interviewing RMS until I heard itOct 07 21:19
JPerlowI fed kenneth questions.Oct 07 21:19
schestowitzRMS was very nice in this interviewOct 07 21:20
JPerlowor rather, I had a listOct 07 21:20
schestowitzSometimes he's crabbyOct 07 21:20
JPerlowthe time zone was difficultOct 07 21:20
schestowitzI like how he ended with, "don't apologise. You didn't do anything wrong."Oct 07 21:20
schestowitzA lot of people think of RMS as moodyOct 07 21:20
schestowitzhttp://www.h-online.com/open/Report-OSI-corporate-status-suspended--/news/114404Oct 07 21:21
schestowitzSo weirdOct 07 21:21
schestowitz'Aslett notes that although the OSI does not hold a trademark on the term "open source" in the past it has been able to discourage the used of the term with software which is not under an OSI approved licence. The analyst says that "Since the corporate status of the OSI is suspended, its ability to do so in the future is in doubt".''Oct 07 21:22
schestowitzThe browser trmanco looked forward to: http://lifehacker.com/5375549/arora-is-an-open+source-browser-with-out+of+the+box-ad-blockingOct 07 21:23
phIRCeTitle: Arora Is an Open-Source Browser with Out-of-the-Box Ad Blocking - Arora - Lifehacker .::. Size~: 58.47 KBOct 07 21:23
schestowitzhttp://insidesocal.com/click/2009/10/new-to-me-update-notifications.htmlOct 07 21:24
trmancohttp://www.alexhudson.com/blog/2009/10/07/boycott-boycott-novell-a-huge-own-goal/Oct 07 21:25
phIRCeTitle: Boycott Boycott Novell: a huge own goal? «  Alexs Blog .::. Size~: 13.68 KBOct 07 21:25
schestowitzAlex Brown commentsOct 07 21:26
schestowitzMicrosoft trollOct 07 21:26
trmancothis you see the gimped image?Oct 07 21:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Drunken pair floored by men in drag after squaring up to Spider-Man - ROFL http://tinyurl.com/y8rrasbOct 07 21:27
trmancodid*Oct 07 21:27
schestowitzWhich one?Oct 07 21:29
DaemonFChttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161287Oct 07 21:29
DaemonFCjust bought thisOct 07 21:29
phIRCeTitle: Newegg.com - HIS H467QS1GH Radeon HD 4670 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Desktop Graphics / Video Cards .::. Size~: 121.8 KBOct 07 21:29
trmancohttp://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091007105147454Oct 07 21:30
DaemonFCsaw how much of a beat down it gave the Geforce 9500 GT I ownOct 07 21:30
phIRCeTitle: Groklaw - EU Commission Announces Market Test of Microsoft Suggestions on Browser Choice, Interoperability - Updated .::. Size~: 80.8 KBOct 07 21:30
DaemonFCI'm trying to get away from Intel and Nvidia for a number of reasons, mostly quality concerns, some pricing concernsOct 07 21:31
schestowitzWatch the video abogbveOct 07 21:32
schestowitzSo funny.Oct 07 21:32
DaemonFCdunno if the 1 gig of RAM on video card will help much vs 512 megs, it's only $10 more thoughOct 07 21:33
DaemonFCboth were GDDR3Oct 07 21:33
JPerlowdaemon: virtually everything I use is AMDOct 07 21:34
JPerlowI have two intel based machines, and both are laptopsOct 07 21:35
schestowitztrmanco: yes, it's a terrible dealOct 07 21:35
schestowitzMicrosoft and its army of lobbyists (gangsters) got their wayOct 07 21:35
DaemonFCNewegg will RMA it if it doesn't work for me, so I'm not really risking muchOct 07 21:35
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trmancohehOct 07 21:40
trmancohttp://news.softpedia.com/news/Windows-7-10-Second-Boot-123672.shtmlOct 07 21:40
phIRCeTitle: Windows 7 10-Second Boot - Video demonstration - Softpedia .::. Size~: 48.3 KBOct 07 21:40
trmanco10 bot secondOct 07 21:40
trmancobut here is the catchOct 07 21:41
trmanco“At (…) Intel Developer Forum, a company called Phoenix debuted new BIOS technology that allows Windows 7 to boot up from black screen to desktop in only 10 seconds. Called "Instant Boot BIOS," the Phoenix BIOS uses new UEFI technology to power on several system devices at once instead of one-by-one. It also runs only those processes that are necessary to hand control over from BIOS to OS,” revealed Channel 10’s Sarah Perez (Oct 07 21:41
trmancoinitially reported by LaptopMag). "Oct 07 21:41
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*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Oct 07 21:47
trmancohttp://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139094/Asus_embraces_overclocking_on_newest_notebooks?source=rss_newsOct 07 21:47
phIRCeTitle:  Asus embraces overclocking on newest notebooks .::. Size~: 130.08 KBOct 07 21:47
schestowitzMarketing fluffOct 07 21:50
schestowitzThey optimise for demosOct 07 21:50
schestowitzSince the startOct 07 21:50
schestowitzVista 7 is too fta for sub-notebooksOct 07 21:50
schestowitzExcept the very expensive onesOct 07 21:50
*gmzlj (n=simongmz@CPE00223f7552ad-CM00223a6ef767.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 21:50
schestowitzAnd these are no longer the same class factorOct 07 21:50
trmancoa vanilla windows will boot fastOct 07 21:54
trmancoor reasonably fastOct 07 21:54
*DaemonFC has quit ("Leaving")Oct 07 21:54
trmancobut once you glue all the missing parts together, is slow as crapOct 07 21:54
trmancoand it gets worse by just using it on a daily basisOct 07 21:55
gmzljtrmanco, file system fragments baddlyOct 07 21:56
trmancoyesOct 07 21:56
trmancoLOLOct 07 21:57
trmancoI won an awardOct 07 21:57
trmancohahaOct 07 21:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Openbytes views on piracy, UK legislation and Indiana Gregg! http://tinyurl.com/y8rw8kg #piratebay #foss #tpbOct 07 22:02
phIRCeTitle: World of Gregg  What solar system is that in?  File Sharing..AGAIN! «  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 57.66 KBOct 07 22:02
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trmancohttp://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139098/Researcher_refutes_Microsoft_s_account_of_hijacked_Hotmail_passwords?source=rss_newsOct 07 22:12
phIRCeTitle:  Researcher refutes Microsoft's account of hijacked Hotmail passwords .::. Size~: 131.46 KBOct 07 22:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #VirtualBox Released and Why Virtualisation Matters in Desktops http://bit.ly/1f8zxz http://bit.ly/16mRnbOct 07 22:15
phIRCeTitle: OGradys PowerPage  Your Mobile Technology Destination » VirtualBox 3.0.8 Released .::. Size~: 71.25 KBOct 07 22:15
phIRCeTitle: Not Your Father's Virtual Machine - Forbes.com .::. Size~: 35.54 KBOct 07 22:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #WindowsXP Mode Better and Cheaper in #GNU #Linux Than in #Vista7 http://bit.ly/OdLQnOct 07 22:17
phIRCeTitle: How To: Windows XP Mode In...Ubuntu Linux? : Introduction - Review Tom's Hardware .::. Size~: 112.11 KBOct 07 22:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] UK Recruiter Sees Increased Demand for #GNU #Linux and #FreeSoftware http://www.contractoruk.com/news/004591.htmlOct 07 22:18
phIRCeTitle: Contractor UK Market Report: Rates surge back from the brink :: Contractor UK .::. Size~: 22.41 KBOct 07 22:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] amazing retail horror story. includes scan of the payslip. http://is.gd/43kGQOct 07 22:19
phIRCeTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/png type .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 07 22:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at #Linux 2.6.31.2 and More Features to Come http://bit.ly/LmNCbOct 07 22:21
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Arora Removes Noise from Pages for #GNU #Linux Users http://bit.ly/lQpYLOct 07 22:27
phIRCeTitle: Arora Is an Open-Source Browser with Out-of-the-Box Ad Blocking - Arora - Lifehacker .::. Size~: 58.51 KBOct 07 22:27
*asdf_ has quit ("Page closed")Oct 07 22:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Lists of #GNOME Wallpapers and Themes http://bit.ly/E0sUm http://bit.ly/5tluUOct 07 22:29
phIRCeTitle: Howto: Download Tons of GNOME-Specific Wallpapers With One Command .::. Size~: 32.57 KBOct 07 22:29
phIRCeTitle: 25+ Stunning Gnome Desktop Themes for ubuntu users @ Techie Blogger .::. Size~: 72.92 KBOct 07 22:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] All Eyes on #KDE 4.4, Good Feedback from Users http://bit.ly/19ZRTn http://bit.ly/d0ppO http://bit.ly/y5DmE http://bit.ly/1O8bYoOct 07 22:30
phIRCeTitle: aseigo: device notifier work for 4.4 .::. Size~: 137.09 KBOct 07 22:30
phIRCeTitle: aseigo: managing change during KDE's evolution .::. Size~: 87.76 KBOct 07 22:30
phIRCeTitle: Code Monkey: I don't get KDE .::. Size~: 62.57 KBOct 07 22:30
phIRCeTitle: KDE 4: Recap « Jon Reagan's Tech Blog .::. Size~: 16.29 KBOct 07 22:30
trmancowowOct 07 22:30
trmancoit didn't miss one :-)Oct 07 22:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Review of the New #Sabayon #Linux 5 http://bit.ly/9A5xzOct 07 22:31
phIRCeTitle: Sabayon Linux 5 Review | Desktop Linux Reviews .::. Size~: 74.72 KBOct 07 22:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Já que nao se faz mais nada, aqui vão umas statsOct 07 22:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] From your 313 subscriptions, over the last 30 days you read 24,338 items, starred 10 items, shared 101 items, and emailed 1 items.Oct 07 22:32
*dibblego (n=Rain@220-245-107-64.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovellOct 07 22:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] cOct 07 22:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ClearOS Join the #RedHat Family http://bit.ly/22N5COct 07 22:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @kpoulsen: What does Google's treatment of its Usenet archives tell us about the future of Google Books? http://bit.ly/4e4SO4Oct 07 22:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Debian Advances #BSD with #kFreeBSD, #Google Reports from #EuroBSDCon 2009 http://www.debian.org/News/2009/20091007 http://bit.ly/3QQZXEOct 07 22:37
phIRCeTitle: Googles Abandoned Library of 700 Million Titles | Epicenter | Wired.com .::. Size~: 79.23 KBOct 07 22:37
phIRCeTitle: Debian -- News -- Debian pushes development of kFreeBSD port  .::. Size~: 5.28 KBOct 07 22:37
phIRCeTitle: Google Open Source Blog: Report from EuroBSDCon 2009 .::. Size~: 81.44 KBOct 07 22:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #MarkShuttleworth at #LinuxCon and the French Press Defending #FreeSoftware http://bit.ly/DOg43 http://bit.ly/2SsBKnOct 07 22:39
phIRCeTitle: Shuttleworth at LinuxCon: Will Ubuntu Lead Free Software? &mdash; Datamation.com .::. Size~: 71.23 KBOct 07 22:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How to Get Ubuntu 9.10 Ahead of Everyone http://bit.ly/45MudvOct 07 22:41
phIRCeTitle: Experimenting with GNU/Linux: Downloading Ubuntu 9.10 beta with zsync .::. Size~: 91.03 KBOct 07 22:41
*dibblego (n=Rain@220-245-107-64.static.tpgi.com.au) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving")Oct 07 22:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Amazon's Linux-based (but DRM-encumbered) Gadget Spreads to 100+ Countries http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8294310.stmOct 07 22:45
phIRCeTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 84.61 KBOct 07 22:45
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Internet Eyes – A step forward in crime prevention? http://tinyurl.com/yahf2zh #cctvOct 07 22:46
phIRCeTitle: Internet Eyes  A step forward in crime prevention? «  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 33.24 KBOct 07 22:46
_goblinhi allOct 07 22:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sub-notebooks Running #GNU #Linux Suitable for Anyone http://bit.ly/Sx5Dr http://bit.ly/4ohl7wOct 07 22:48
phIRCeTitle: Hands-On With The Netbook Linux Anyone Can Master | Gizmodo Australia .::. Size~: 38.86 KBOct 07 22:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] $100 Sub-notebooks Running #GNU #Linux (or O/S-Free) to Come Soon http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20091007PD223.htmlOct 07 22:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla Personas 1.3 and #Bazaar 2.0.0 Are Out http://bit.ly/67E3I http://bit.ly/2zeUGEOct 07 22:53
phIRCeTitle: Mozilla Personas for Firefox 1.3 - Browsers êáé ðñüóèåôá  -  Download - PCW .::. Size~: 113.07 KBOct 07 22:53
trmancoyayOct 07 22:53
trmancolooks neatOct 07 22:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Asterisk an Example of #FreeSoftware Going Mainstream http://bit.ly/7KbyLOct 07 22:54
phIRCeTitle: Astricon: Has Asterisk Gone Mainstream?  | The VAR Guy .::. Size~: 51.37 KBOct 07 22:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] When is a "RT Twitter bot" not a bot? When it removes certain RT's (presumably with human input) revealing news about some bots coming soon.Oct 07 22:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Armin Van Buuren - Fine Without You Feat Jennifer Rene" ♫ http://blip.fm/~ehg5bOct 07 23:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Netgear Cheats the Free/Open Source Brand http://bit.ly/2BkmT0 http://bit.ly/3PTKQC #fakerOct 07 23:01
phIRCeTitle: Blip.fm | What are you listening to? .::. Size~: 27.27 KBOct 07 23:01
phIRCeTitle: Harald Welte's blog .::. Size~: 20.8 KBOct 07 23:01
phIRCeTitle: Netgear router not open source, says coder - ZDNet.co.uk .::. Size~: 105.58 KBOct 07 23:01
trmancooh Dutch music :)Oct 07 23:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #DHS Practices Remind of Importance of Privacy/Freedom http://bit.ly/A6LHq #1984 #bigbrotherOct 07 23:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] File Sharing Goes Mainstream and Sometimes Perfectly Legal http://bit.ly/i9TI2 #p2pOct 07 23:03
phIRCeTitle: philosecurity  » Blog Archive   » What Does DHS Know About You? .::. Size~: 44.78 KBOct 07 23:03
phIRCeTitle: File Sharing Goes Mainstream - Reviews by PC Magazine .::. Size~: 92.38 KBOct 07 23:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Viacom Mafioso Wants to Shoot Down Whole of #YouTube with Frivolous Lawsuits http://bit.ly/2HLxg6Oct 07 23:05
*gargoyle-grin has quit ("Leaving.")Oct 07 23:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Martin Roth & Alex Bartlett - Off The World (Gareth Emery rmx)" ♫ http://blip.fm/~ehgroOct 07 23:12
phIRCeTitle: Blip.fm | What are you listening to? .::. Size~: 27.27 KBOct 07 23:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat's CEO Speaks on CNBC Against #IntellectualMonopolies http://bit.ly/HAWwP #FFII Files Brief http://bit.ly/4CEYn8 #swpatOct 07 23:13
phIRCeTitle: Video - CNBC.com .::. Size~: 83.19 KBOct 07 23:13
phIRCeTitle: Software Patents: FFII and IP Justice file Bilski Amicus Brief to the U.S. Supreme Court .::. Size~: 30.33 KBOct 07 23:13
*lis` has quit ("baibai<3")Oct 07 23:13
_goblinseems a little quiet in here today...Oct 07 23:14
trmancoschestowitz: might be posting some newsOct 07 23:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RailCorp Gets Nightmare for Using Windows http://bit.ly/2m9nxIOct 07 23:15
phIRCeTitle: RailCorp wrestles with Conficker - News -  Builder AU .::. Size~: 55.64 KBOct 07 23:15
_goblinIve done a couple of posts too...started at 530pm..Oct 07 23:18
bozo_http://www.embedded.com/underthehood/219100633?pgno=1Oct 07 23:18
phIRCeTitle: Embedded.com - Chumby: Open-Source, Internet-enabled gadget modernizes the nightstand clock and invites hackers .::. Size~: 70 KBOct 07 23:18
_goblinget the feeling I'll get some stick for my views on CCTV.Oct 07 23:18
_goblinlooks like twitter is down: HTTP Server Error 503Oct 07 23:19
_goblinNo available server to handle this requestOct 07 23:19
trmancohttp://twitter.comOct 07 23:19
trmancohmmmOct 07 23:20
phIRCeTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 502 Bad Gateway .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 07 23:20
trmancoyeahOct 07 23:20
trmancosomething like thatOct 07 23:20
_goblinOprah's not on it again is she?Oct 07 23:20
_goblin;)Oct 07 23:20
schestowitz!google oprah sucksOct 07 23:21
phIRCe[1] - Oprah: Daytime Talk's Jihadi Sister | http://www.oprahsucks.com/Oct 07 23:21
phIRCe[2] - YouTube - Oprah sucks | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D7r_6rfwzuIcOct 07 23:21
phIRCe[3] - Why Oprah Sucks 11/2/2007 - jungdong on Blog Talk Radio | http://www.blogtalkradio.com/jungdongshow/2007/11/02/Why-Oprah-SucksOct 07 23:21
phIRCe[4] - What Sucks...: What Sucks...Oprah | http://www.whatsucksblog.com/2006/10/what-sucksoprah.htmlOct 07 23:21
trmancololOct 07 23:21
trmanco!google fsfOct 07 23:24
phIRCe[1] - Welcome! - Free Software Foundation | http://www.fsf.org/Oct 07 23:24
phIRCe[2] - Licenses - Free Software Foundation | http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/Oct 07 23:24
phIRCe[3] - Free Software Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Software_FoundationOct 07 23:24
phIRCe[4] - Flight Safety Foundation: Home Page | http://www.flightsafety.org/Oct 07 23:24
_goblinoh and by the way according to a user on Indiana Greggs official blog, Im uneducated because of something he claims I said (which I didn't of course) last time I locked horns with Greggs fan base (it was hilarious) ever had a conversation with a non IT literate music fan about the BT protocol?  Its like trying to teach Jar Jar Binks quantum physics.Oct 07 23:24
_goblinIve got a good feeling I will get big hits from my Indiana Gregg counter.Oct 07 23:25
Diablo-D3mesa no understand string theoryOct 07 23:25
_goblinlolOct 07 23:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why #GNU #Linux Has Already Killed #Vista7 ('s Profitability) http://bit.ly/2Jwmp2Oct 07 23:26
phIRCeTitle: Windows 7 to Usher in Profitless Prosperity  .::. Size~: 62.37 KBOct 07 23:26
trmancotwitter is all b0rkedOct 07 23:27
_goblinit seems to be working for me now.....Oct 07 23:27
_goblinfor the time beingOct 07 23:27
trmancohttp://twitter.comOct 07 23:27
phIRCeTitle: Twitter .::. Size~: 20.46 KBOct 07 23:27
trmancowe can also use phIRCe as a debugging toolOct 07 23:27
trmanco:)Oct 07 23:27
trmancoyeah it worksOct 07 23:28
trmancoI meanOct 07 23:28
trmancotroubleshooting*Oct 07 23:28
_goblinwhats Phrice written with?  Python?Oct 07 23:28
trmancono phpOct 07 23:28
schestowitzphpOct 07 23:28
_goblinahOct 07 23:28
schestowitzbeat me to itOct 07 23:28
trmanco:)Oct 07 23:29
_goblinbeen messing with some IRC bindings for Python.....Oct 07 23:29
schestowitzbitbucket ddosOct 07 23:29
trmancoI wrote the whole thing from scratchOct 07 23:29
schestowitzNothing is done from scratchOct 07 23:29
schestowitzIf you use librariesOct 07 23:29
schestowitzStart from physics and transistorsOct 07 23:29
trmancowellOct 07 23:30
schestowitzThen build some instructions...Oct 07 23:30
trmancophp is point 0Oct 07 23:30
schestowitzThe idea is, you didn't reuse codeOct 07 23:30
schestowitzBut you rely on code underneathOct 07 23:30
_goblinhas anyone looked at pyOpenGL?Oct 07 23:30
trmancoI wrote everything from scratch starting there, but using it's inbuilt functionsOct 07 23:30
trmancoyeahOct 07 23:30
_goblinbeen messing around with that too....Oct 07 23:31
schestowitzreuse of code is nothing to be ashamed ofOct 07 23:31
_goblinhere here!Oct 07 23:31
schestowitzFailure to reuse of a disgrace however. It makes bad codeOct 07 23:31
trmancoit is, if it has no licenseOct 07 23:31
_goblinI think thats where MS went wrong, they tried to reinvent the wheel everytime.Oct 07 23:31
schestowitzSee what Microsoft did when dropping bsd for tcp/ip stackOct 07 23:31
schestowitzRemote BSODsOct 07 23:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Amazing tale of the Bletchley Park code war in the Atlantic http://is.gd/43pZuOct 07 23:32
_goblinPowershell - LOL.Oct 07 23:32
phIRCeTitle: budiansky .::. Size~: 31.6 KBOct 07 23:32
trmancoLOLOct 07 23:32
schestowitz!google openbytes sucksOct 07 23:34
phIRCe[1] - BING – Bing Is Not Google « OPEN BYTES – cave quid dicis, quando ... | http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/bing-bing-is-not-google/Oct 07 23:34
phIRCe[2] - Windows 7 – Its party time! (just don't mention Vista) « OPEN ... | http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/windows-7-its-party-time-just-dont-mention-vista/Oct 07 23:34
phIRCe[3] - Underhanded // BlogCatalog Topic // BlogCatalog | http://www.blogcatalog.com/topic/underhanded/Oct 07 23:34
phIRCe[4] - GameSpot Forums - Sony PSP - PSP 3000 Interlacing | http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php%3Ftopic_id%3D26954609Oct 07 23:34
trmancocreating this bot was a good exerciseOct 07 23:34
trmanco!bing GoogleOct 07 23:37
trmanco:-POct 07 23:37
trmancolet me check if the have a decent APIOct 07 23:37
MinceRcall it !bingoOct 07 23:37
trmanco# Multiple protocols: JSON, XML, SOAPOct 07 23:38
trmanconot badOct 07 23:38
trmancopftOct 07 23:38
trmancothey give me pdf's instead of html pages on how to implement the api...Oct 07 23:39
trmancothis is one of the reasons why they will never be a web companyOct 07 23:39
MinceRat least it's not m$'s own Me Too PDF formatOct 07 23:39
MinceRi only remember that it starts with XOct 07 23:39
trmancohttp://www.bing.com/developers/s/API%20Basics.pdfOct 07 23:39
phIRCeTitle: Not a web page! Aborting application/pdf type .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 07 23:39
trmancoLOLOct 07 23:39
trmancohttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd251056.aspx they have the read docs hereOct 07 23:40
trmancothey are blocking my bot :|Oct 07 23:41
trmancohehOct 07 23:42
trmancofound itOct 07 23:42
MinceRthe bot could comment on that fact in the !b{i,o}ng{,o} commandOct 07 23:42
trmancowhat to you guys sayOct 07 23:42
trmancoshould I implement it? :-POct 07 23:43
trmancohttp://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd250929.aspxOct 07 23:43
trmancoI don't really think it worth it, in a couple of years they will create a new bing... :-POct 07 23:44
trmancoit's*Oct 07 23:44
trmancobut it would be interesting to compare the resultsOct 07 23:44
MinceRi don't care about bingoOct 07 23:46
schestowitz"...he's being disingenuous about climate change, there's many scientists who do not think global warming (now called "climate change") ."Oct 07 23:50
schestowitzEuphemism and tricksOct 07 23:50
schestowitzNo Bongo search...Oct 07 23:51
trmancololOct 07 23:51
trmanconext upOct 07 23:52
trmancogoogle maps search api with an ascii response typeOct 07 23:52
trmancoso, basically, it will draw the map here in irc :-POct 07 23:52
trmancoLOLOct 07 23:53
MinceRyou could call the command "!flood"Oct 07 23:53
MinceR:>Oct 07 23:53
trmanco:-POct 07 23:53

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