Boycott Novell logo

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 16th, 2009

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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Eye on #Apple : Perfect Shiny Products http://ping.fm/P1WJwOct 16 00:13
phIRCeTitle: Eye on Apple: Perfect Shiny Products | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 97.88 KBOct 16 00:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Gartner Lied About #Vista , So Why Should People Believe it Regarding #Vista 7 ? http://ping.fm/rhXkZOct 16 00:14
phIRCeTitle: Gartner Lied About Vista, So Why Should People Believe it Regarding Vista 7? | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.02 KBOct 16 00:14
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Photo: Parabéns ao @brunomiguel Tux penguin cake (via litlnemo) http://tumblr.com/xkj3jhsh4Oct 16 00:16
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*ThistleWeb is listening to FLOSS with schestowitzOct 16 00:24
trmanco:)Oct 16 00:24
trmanco"No, it's kidding.Oct 16 00:38
trmancoI can tell by the pixels."Oct 16 00:38
trmancoLOLOct 16 00:38
ThistleWebI thought schestowitz woulda had a Macunian accentOct 16 00:38
trmancohehOct 16 00:39
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trmancohttp://www.maxim.com/humor/stupid-fun/84573/9-reasons-why-google-search-suggest-is-better-than-yahoo.htmlOct 16 00:44
phIRCeTitle: 9 Examples Why Google Search Is Better Than Yahoo! | Maxim.com .::. Size~: 56.92 KBOct 16 00:44
trmancohttp://www.darkreading.com/security/attacks/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=220600886&cid=RSSfeedOct 16 00:44
phIRCeTitle: DIY: Defending Against A DDoS Attack - DarkReading .::. Size~: 75.2 KBOct 16 00:45
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Hooks up with the Press and the #Government to Cement Protectionist Measures http://ping.fm/rOETvOct 16 00:50
phIRCeTitle: Microsoft Hooks up with the Press and the Government to Cement Protectionist Measures | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 103.9 KBOct 16 00:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] A Win .exe seems well named, as a bad one of those can execute your Windows PCOct 16 00:53
trmanco!quit phIRCeOct 16 00:54
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Funny tests of search completion http://ping.fm/SJmVp (via @trmanco )Oct 16 00:54
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Sued for Data Loss http://ping.fm/E9e7V #danger #sidekick #failOct 16 01:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] http://bit.ly/1XYOZk China fears the Internet as a threat to their dictatorship so much that they shut down Tor for National day!Oct 16 01:30
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DaemonFChttp://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/64426252.htmlOct 16 02:32
DaemonFClmaoOct 16 02:32
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schestowitzHave you seized control of the lib's site yet?Oct 16 02:46
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yuhongschestowitz: Did you see my email on OS/2 that was sent to roy@schestowitz.com?Oct 16 03:03
schestowitzLet me check.Oct 16 03:04
yuhongIt was a reply to Michael Necasek's email.Oct 16 03:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Search is Still Slipping Through Microsoft’s Fingers http://ping.fm/U976P #bing #googleOct 16 03:05
yuhongHe is an expert on OS/2Oct 16 03:05
yuhongMy email address is yuhongbao_386@hotmail.comOct 16 03:09
schestowitzyuhong: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/10/15/jeremy-allison-on-mono/comment-page-1/#comment-74215Oct 16 03:12
schestowitzyuhong: oh, I got that message in the morningOct 16 03:12
Balrog_idk if it's a good idea to post email addresses in publicly logged IRC :\Oct 16 03:12
Balrog_that may be an invitation for spamOct 16 03:12
schestowitzTotally forgot about it by now, thought you'd sent something else a moment agoOct 16 03:12
yuhongI just noticed it.Oct 16 03:12
schestowitzBalrog_: agreedOct 16 03:12
schestowitzmy private mail address is not here thoughOct 16 03:13
yuhongIt is about OS/2Oct 16 03:13
yuhongDid you read it?Oct 16 03:14
yuhongAnd what did you think?Oct 16 03:17
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yuhongAre you writing up a reply?Oct 16 03:22
yuhong OS/2 was not always MS's enemy.Oct 16 03:22
Balrog_yuhong: OS/2 ?Oct 16 03:22
Balrog_sounds interestingOct 16 03:22
yuhongYep.Oct 16 03:22
cubezzzwasn't OS/2 from Microsoft originally?Oct 16 03:22
yuhongYep, exactly.Oct 16 03:23
cubezzzand Xenix, they seem to like to experiment with OSesOct 16 03:23
yuhongTo be more precise, it was developed jointly with IBM too under the JDA.Oct 16 03:23
cubezzzI'm sure that's still the caseOct 16 03:23
cubezzzI know that some Microsoft guys use FOSSOct 16 03:25
yuhonghttp://pages.prodigy.net/michaln/history/index.htmlOct 16 03:25
yuhongHas a good history of OS/Oct 16 03:25
yuhongHas a good history of OS/2.Oct 16 03:25
yuhongIs also where i got the email address for  Michael Necasek.Oct 16 03:27
yuhongWhich I sent emails to.Oct 16 03:27
yuhongI wanted to forward this one also to schestowitz.Oct 16 03:27
cubezzzso anyone still doing OS/2 work? :)Oct 16 03:28
yuhongI forwarded one of my replies to him also to schestowitz, which I was asking schestowitz to check..Oct 16 03:28
cubezzzStallman was really thinking aheadOct 16 03:30
cubezzzportable, 32-bit free operating systemOct 16 03:31
cubezzzexcept the HURD part ;-)Oct 16 03:31
DaemonFCcubezzz, He was just thinking beyond our lifetimes with HURDOct 16 03:31
DaemonFCright?Oct 16 03:31
DaemonFCI mean what a visionary :DOct 16 03:31
cubezzzI guess soOct 16 03:32
schestowitzMach was later adopted by AppleOct 16 03:33
schestowitzLike over a decade laterOct 16 03:33
cubezzzTanenbaum was going on about microkernels and how Linus wouldn't have done well in his operating system classOct 16 03:34
cubezzzthis is old, but still interesting:Oct 16 03:37
cubezzzhttp://blogs.pcworld.com/communityvoices/archives/2008/08/interview_with.htmlOct 16 03:37
cubezzzX11 isn't the only windows system thoughOct 16 03:39
cubezzzthere's qtopia (old, probably morphed into something else) Oct 16 03:39
schestowitzI've always wondered about thatOct 16 03:40
schestowitzX has its problems but also its advantagesOct 16 03:40
schestowitzIt's detachable and portable (ssh -X)Oct 16 03:40
cubezzzit's biggie piggie :)Oct 16 03:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft #Patents at Risk Due to #FreeSoftware Prior Art; Opposition to Patents Grows http://ping.fm/Athg6Oct 16 03:40
schestowitzWIndows can only dream of some of these featuresOct 16 03:40
yuhongI know.Oct 16 03:41
schestowitzBut at the same time, some rendering can be slow in X like some JS stuff/Ajax, which might have something to do with browsers actuallyOct 16 03:41
cubezzzthere's even some PDA's that run XOct 16 03:41
cubezzzI thought X systems was way ahead a long time agoOct 16 03:42
cubezzzlike when Waterloo had Sun4'sOct 16 03:42
yuhongAnd on MS/TomTom, here is a link on TechDirt.Oct 16 03:43
yuhonghttp://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090314/1226424116.shtmlOct 16 03:43
yuhong"TomTom Caught Between Microsoft Rock And GPL Hard Place"Oct 16 03:43
yuhongWhat do you think about this problem?Oct 16 03:44
yuhonghttp://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/microsoft-sues-tomtom-over-fat-patents-in-linux-based-device.ars?comments=1&comment_id=711004537931Oct 16 03:45
yuhong"Around 5 years ago he mentioned to me that Microsoft had knocked on their door, because the drives were shipped pre-formatted with FAT32. So this manufacturer used a setup where a "genuine" Windows box would format a drive of the required capacity, and this master would then be imaged onto every drive. Obviously this is a technicality in the extreme, but that's what was required to comply...Oct 16 03:46
yuhong...with the patents.Oct 16 03:46
yuhongI'm sure it wasn't their ideal solution, of course, they'd probably have rather used a Linux box, or just generated the image algorithmically. There's been a few cases of pre-formatted drives shipping with viruses, malware, porn, whatever... likely because it's a Windows box generating that master image."Oct 16 03:46
cubezzzwhy even both with FAT?Oct 16 03:46
yuhongAnd that just for FORMATTING the drive, which technically should not infridge on the FAT LFN patents, because formatting do not write any FAT LFN entries.Oct 16 03:46
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yuhongcubezzz: Indeed, read the link I just posted above for a solution using ext4.Oct 16 03:47
cubezzzok, is it possible to make windows boxes to read ext2 or ext3 partitions?Oct 16 03:47
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yuhongYep, that is exactly what the comment advocates.Oct 16 03:47
cubezzzor just don't use windows at all, no biggie thereOct 16 03:47
yuhongRead the entire comment.Oct 16 03:47
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cubezzzyeah, I agree with what he saysOct 16 03:51
cubezzztoo many companies are too wimpy to break away from the big MOct 16 03:51
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DaemonFCWindows can read ext2 or ext3 with a third party driverOct 16 03:52
DaemonFCbut it's dangerousOct 16 03:52
DaemonFCit doesn't recognize file permissions so you can modify any file on the partition in WindowsOct 16 03:52
yuhongYep, the problem is that Windows and Unix file permissions are different.Oct 16 03:53
cubezzzactually microkernels do make senseOct 16 03:55
cubezzzthere's a lot less code that could bring down the entire OSOct 16 03:55
yuhongI know.Oct 16 03:55
*schestowitz FATAL ERROR. Sleep(99) && reb^H^H^H^H^HOct 16 03:55
yuhongAnd Intel and MS were not always friends.Oct 16 03:57
yuhongFrom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Architecture_Labs:Oct 16 03:57
yuhong"IAL pursued both hardware and software initiatives, but the latter became de-emphasized after the efforts collided with similar activities by Microsoft. For example, Native Signal Processing (NSP) was a software initiative to allow Intel-based PCs to run time-sensitive code independently of the operating system, allowing real-time audio and video processing on the microprocessors of the...Oct 16 03:57
yuhong...mid-1990s. Microsoft refused to support NSP in its operating systems and convinced PC makers that the NSP drivers would render their systems unsupported, and Intel pulled back from promoting the software, leaving NSP as an orphan. IAL also tangled with Microsoft by supporting Netscape and their early browser, and by producing a fast native x86 port of the Java system. Most of these...Oct 16 03:57
yuhong...projects were later shelved, and after 1997 IAL tended not to risk competing with Microsoft. The details of IAL's conflicts with Microsoft over software were revealed in Steven McGeady's testimony in the Microsoft anti-trust trial."Oct 16 03:57
yuhonghttp://partners.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/11/biztech/articles/16soft.htmlOct 16 03:58
cubezzzwho is MIcrosoft really "friends" with?Oct 16 03:58
cubezzzAdobe? SUN? Google?Oct 16 03:59
cubezzznot really eh? :)Oct 16 03:59
cubezzzI don't even think Ballmer and Gates like each otherOct 16 03:59
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yuhongLarry and Sergey did not like each other initially either.Oct 16 04:00
yuhonghttp://news.cnet.com/Intel-Microsoft-made-threats/2100-1001_3-217653.htmlOct 16 04:00
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JZApeople still here... interestingOct 16 05:07
JZAhearing the twit show/interview. Pretty interesting.Oct 16 05:07
JZAI do notice Roy didnt got into the issues.Oct 16 05:10
tessiershow/interview?Oct 16 05:14
tessierSome sort of podcast or what?Oct 16 05:14
cubezzzI don't particularly like the term podcast Oct 16 05:15
tessierWhy?Oct 16 05:15
JZAtessier: because it ties to the ipodOct 16 05:15
cubezzzit sounds exclusionistOct 16 05:15
JZAcubezzz: but for the porpouse of communications it makes the point.Oct 16 05:16
JZAnetcast, webcast, oggcast?Oct 16 05:16
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stonebitHas anyone seen boycott-boycottnovell.com?Oct 16 05:19
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JZAstonebit, yeah provided by the same guy who just flamed RMS as sexist.Oct 16 05:19
JZALeftyOct 16 05:19
stonebitIt's hilarious! They run it on FrontPage, which is a MS abandonware.Oct 16 05:20
JZAI read the exchange between lefty and RMS, he seemed to be trying to make a storm in a glass of water.Oct 16 05:20
JZAstonebit -- I thought it was Joomla site.Oct 16 05:20
JZAjono: are you around?Oct 16 05:21
jonoJZA, heyOct 16 05:21
JZAjono: listening to your interview, what are you doing up this late? are you in the UK?Oct 16 05:21
jonoJZA, no I am in California :-)Oct 16 05:21
JZAjono: oh that's why, just listening to your questions they jump around the site. Oct 16 05:22
JZAa bit too muchOct 16 05:22
cubezzzwhy flv sheeshOct 16 05:23
jonoI just tried to cover a decent amount of groundOct 16 05:23
JZAI am getting dizzy from topic to topicOct 16 05:23
jonohehOct 16 05:24
JZAalso I thought it was too novell focused, most of the posts here is more against Microsoft than novell really.Oct 16 05:25
JZAMicrosoft lobying to get Free software out of the policy agendas. Oct 16 05:25
jonorightOct 16 05:25
JZAwould have been a great topic to talk about and stick to Oct 16 05:25
ThistleWebthe site has grown beyond the idea behind the url thoughOct 16 05:26
JZAThistleWeb: my pointOct 16 05:26
ThistleWebwhich is also covered in the interviewOct 16 05:26
JZAgood point, still havent got to the end of it.Oct 16 05:26
ThistleWebI agree, a more apt name would be betterOct 16 05:27
ThistleWebhe did wonder about that, ad you'll find outOct 16 05:27
cubezzzis there an audio link for Roy's interview?Oct 16 05:27
JZAwww.twit.tvOct 16 05:27
ThistleWebthe podcast is released, that's how I get floss weeklyOct 16 05:27
ThistleWebI was expecthing a Manchester accentOct 16 05:28
JZAyeah but cubezzz dont like the word podcast. Oct 16 05:28
tessierjono: What part of Cali?Oct 16 05:28
jonotessier, Bay AreaOct 16 05:28
ThistleWebI don't like the word dingleberry but it still existsOct 16 05:28
tessierjono: Man, all the cool people and cool stuff are all the way up there. San Diego is a FOSS backwater. :(Oct 16 05:28
ThistleWeb"dingleberries you love, from sheep you trust"Oct 16 05:29
jonotessier, never been there, want to get there one day :)Oct 16 05:29
cubezzzNorth America is a FOSS backwaterOct 16 05:29
jonoThistleWeb, dingleberry?Oct 16 05:29
ThistleWeblook it up in urband dictionaryOct 16 05:30
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ThistleWeblolOct 16 05:30
jonoThistleWeb, I know what it meansOct 16 05:30
tessierjono: Let me know when you come down and I'll buy you a drink.Oct 16 05:30
jonotessier, cheers dude :)Oct 16 05:30
cubezzzpodcast is too vague a termOct 16 05:30
jonoThistleWeb, just checking you were drawing the link I was assumingOct 16 05:30
ThistleWebyeah I know, not exactly relevant but funnyOct 16 05:30
stonebitMy wife tried to turn in a paper in odf. The prof didn't understand why she wouldn't want to pay for MS office.Oct 16 05:31
ThistleWebjono: you need to take leo to task over the ogg thingOct 16 05:31
jonoThistleWeb, we have an ogg feed nowOct 16 05:31
jonoso all is good :)Oct 16 05:31
ThistleWebon one hand he says "hardly anyone uses it" and on the other he says "I don't want to devote resources to it"Oct 16 05:31
JZAjono: it got accusatory on the spamy topic. I never have got spam from novell. Oct 16 05:31
stonebit...oh-i'm in america, so yeah-it's blackwaterOct 16 05:31
JZAerr.. boycotnovellOct 16 05:31
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JZAand I do push many links on facebookOct 16 05:32
thegreatonejust saw the interviewOct 16 05:32
ThistleWebif only a handful of peeps use it, how much does it eat into his $1.2m profits?Oct 16 05:32
thegreatonei thought it was goodOct 16 05:32
thegreatone*heard the interview with jono,leo and royOct 16 05:33
jonoJZA, I thought I made it clear a number of times that I was not saying Roy was spamming, merely that a lot of spammers were speaking in the name of BN and Roy should set the record straight about themOct 16 05:33
jonothegreatone, glad you enjoyed it :)Oct 16 05:33
JZAjono: yeah after you did but still.Oct 16 05:33
ThistleWebleo was there?Oct 16 05:34
jonoJZA, well I did through that discussion, I just heard it back :)Oct 16 05:34
JZAI do wonder how different would it have been if it was Eric Raymond interviewing on the halloween documents.Oct 16 05:34
JZA*aboutOct 16 05:35
ThistleWebit is good to hear a proper interview though, which is something mainstream US journos could do with going back to school to learnOct 16 05:36
ThistleWebnow I come to think about it, I think Roy's episode was a world first for Leo.....something he didn't claim to love when the person responsible was being interviewedOct 16 05:37
JZAyeah I dont see Leo installing Boycott Novell in his machine :)Oct 16 05:38
JZAI do wonder if kermitt the frong will do different.Oct 16 05:38
ThistleWebleo loves everything his current guests are involved inOct 16 05:38
thegreatonehahahOct 16 05:38
JZAThistleWeb: yeah he plays for the crowd, dont really play much hardball... unless ur mark eringtonOct 16 05:39
thegreatoneI appreciate Leo for giving the platform to educate people about something they would never know about all jokes asideOct 16 05:39
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ThistleWeblol, yeah, Leo was particularly abset in that episodeOct 16 05:39
JZAthegreatone: yeah but I was a bit dissapointed that the conversation was more focused on cleaning the name of the site, than what the sitee is actually about. Oct 16 05:39
ThistleWebI also noticed the snide "I just turn up and others do the work" type of commentOct 16 05:39
thegreatoneJZA i concur, i have some digging to do to get to the truthOct 16 05:40
ThistleWeband the pleading for votesOct 16 05:40
thegreatonethistleweb, I voted after the begging for votesOct 16 05:40
thegreatoneare there any other free/open source podcasts that you know about that are as good as FLOSS weeklyOct 16 05:41
jonothanks for the great feedback, folks :)Oct 16 05:41
ThistleWebbut for a real fodd podcast yes?Oct 16 05:41
thegreatoneI am not being sarcastic I am really askingOct 16 05:41
jonothegreatone, about to announce one ;-)Oct 16 05:41
jonoI used to be on a show called LugRadioOct 16 05:41
ThistleWebfoss*Oct 16 05:41
jonowhich was an irreverent take on Open SourceOct 16 05:41
thegreatoneoh yea linux outlaws is also goodOct 16 05:41
ThistleWebyeah I loved lugradioOct 16 05:41
thegreatonethanks jonoOct 16 05:41
ThistleWebyou and aq are some double actOct 16 05:41
jonoand one of the other presenters (Aq) and I are about to announce our new show called Shot Of JaqOct 16 05:41
jonoit will be the two of us discussing various topicsOct 16 05:42
jonoI am just writing up the announcement right nowOct 16 05:42
*ThistleWeb senses a new podcast subscription in da futureOct 16 05:42
jonoThistleWeb, :)Oct 16 05:42
JZAjono: so what would u have done different on the interview if you neeeded to do it again?Oct 16 05:42
ThistleWebnot yoursOct 16 05:42
ThistleWebroflOct 16 05:43
jonoJZA, made it longer :)Oct 16 05:43
ThistleWebnah I kidOct 16 05:43
jonothere was still so much for Roy and I to discussOct 16 05:43
jonoThistleWeb, lolOct 16 05:43
JZAjono: thought podcasting was unlimited.Oct 16 05:43
jonoJZA, well FLOSS tries to keep it the time slotOct 16 05:43
jonoand its really not my showOct 16 05:43
ThistleWebthe boycot novell project is very varied, the time on the interview didn't even come close to covering itOct 16 05:43
jonoI was a guest once and they invited me to be a presenterOct 16 05:43
JZAjono: yeah I give you that. Oct 16 05:43
ThistleWebaka they know they're not all that respected in the FOSS community as FOSS people and need someone with previous FOSS podcasting credibility to help sell itOct 16 05:44
JZAjono: well I would have listed some of the current topics that B.N. is currently focused. Myself I see many many attacks by Microsoft on the ODF OASIS board. Oct 16 05:44
jonoJZA, rightOct 16 05:45
jonowell maybe we can do a part 2 sometimeOct 16 05:45
jono:)Oct 16 05:45
ThistleWebooxmlOct 16 05:45
mrsteveman1hi jono :)Oct 16 05:45
jonoThistleWeb, hah, not sure I have podcasting credibility :POct 16 05:45
jonohey mrsteveman1:)Oct 16 05:45
ThistleWebwell, you know how to push buttons on Cubase and talk into a micOct 16 05:45
mrsteveman1jono: you were really well spoken in this weeks flossOct 16 05:46
JZAmrsteveman1: yeah I miss the coursing from LugradioOct 16 05:46
JZA*cursingOct 16 05:46
ThistleWebconsidering how divisive BN is, it woulda been a tough interview to doOct 16 05:46
jonoThistleWeb, heh, I guess soOct 16 05:46
jonothanks mrsteveman1 :)Oct 16 05:47
ThistleWebtrying to play devils advocateOct 16 05:47
ThistleWebroy is certainly more personable than RMSOct 16 05:47
cubezzzCubase is proprietary?Oct 16 05:47
JZAby personable you mean reasonable?Oct 16 05:48
ThistleWeboh yesOct 16 05:48
ThistleWebI mean able to accept others point of viewOct 16 05:48
cubezzzRMS is become more personableOct 16 05:48
cubezzzif you listen to his older interviews he was a lot crankierOct 16 05:48
ThistleWebI remember the tllts interview with RMSOct 16 05:48
cubezzzis becomingOct 16 05:48
ThistleWebhe's continually correct the questionOct 16 05:48
ThistleWebto his credit, he does walk the walkOct 16 05:49
ThistleWebeven if it's a path than many couldn't follow to any practal degree just yetOct 16 05:49
cubezzzhe talked at the U of Calgary recentlyOct 16 05:50
cubezzztalking about the evils of blu-rayOct 16 05:50
ThistleWebshoulda came on to the theme tune from Stingray played on a harpOct 16 05:50
ThistleWebblu-raaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy blurayOct 16 05:50
cubezzzah, no :)Oct 16 05:51
cubezzzStingray as in Gerry Anderson's show?Oct 16 05:51
JZAThistleWeb: well more people should talk to Eben MoglenOct 16 05:51
JZAand less to RMSOct 16 05:51
ThistleWebeban is greatOct 16 05:51
JZAand no.. not just to GPLv3Oct 16 05:51
ThistleWebhe does know how to do talksOct 16 05:51
cubezzzwell, RMS is the extreme end of the scaleOct 16 05:52
JZAexactly, if you want to reason with someone from free software then talk to him and u will be enlightened the same way as if you talk to Larry lessig on Creative Commons.Oct 16 05:52
ThistleWebep 5 or 6 of the DFLC podcast was great, with the whole episode being one of his talksOct 16 05:52
JZAcubezzz: yeah but RMS never ask to be on the show.Oct 16 05:52
ThistleWebSFLC*Oct 16 05:52
cubezzzno RMS on broadcast televisio either :)Oct 16 05:53
ThistleWebyes gerry andersonOct 16 05:53
cubezzzunless I'm mistakenOct 16 05:53
JZAwell Leo said that RMS was on ScreenSaversOct 16 05:53
ThistleWebslight temp detour for a sec, anyone tried cmatrix?Oct 16 05:54
ThistleWebit runs a matrix like animation in the terminal.....totally cool, but completely pointlessOct 16 05:54
thegreatone???Oct 16 05:54
thegreatoneI've watcha  movie in terminalOct 16 05:55
cubezzzno RMS on Charlie Rose, but (dun dun DUNNN) Linus Torvals on Charlie RoseOct 16 05:55
thegreatonemy x session wouldnt startOct 16 05:55
thegreatonevlc 'movie file'Oct 16 05:55
ThistleWebthere's a matix screensaver which does actually have a purpose, thats why I askedOct 16 05:55
thegreatonesurprising resultsOct 16 05:55
ThistleWebit's not a movie in a terminalOct 16 05:55
ThistleWebit's the matrix cascade of code in the terminalOct 16 05:55
thegreatoneyes i know, but until that poing i didnt know you could watch a movie with no x session openOct 16 05:55
ThistleWebit's funky but uselessOct 16 05:56
ThistleWebanyhoo, back to the subjectOct 16 05:56
cubezzzdoesn't xscreensaver do that?Oct 16 05:58
ThistleWebactually I just thought of a geeky use for it. Have your terminal open and run cmatrix, so you have that until you press q to get the standard terminal promptOct 16 05:58
JZAok finally is overOct 16 05:59
JZAjono u totally slanted my man... Oct 16 05:59
JZAbut oh well... I guess part II would be differentOct 16 05:59
jonoJZA, heh, not slanted I would say, but have opinions on the project, yes, but my goal was to raise issues and provide Roy an opportunity to replyOct 16 06:00
jonoI felt the interview asked some tough questions but gave Roy an opportunity to reply and respondOct 16 06:00
thegreatoneDoes anyone think Chrome Os will be positive for the FOSS community?Oct 16 06:13
JZAthegreatone: I dont think it has to do with anything flossOct 16 06:14
JZAthegreatone: maybe it will inspire a new distro based on Mozilla.Oct 16 06:15
JZAGoogle's Native Client inspired WebGLOct 16 06:15
JZAI think is sad that web is all focused on Javascript, I think FLOSS browsers could use a different thing like python on the client to process the calls. Oct 16 06:16
thegreatoneIf its linux underneath i think it has to do with floss, however seeing how their android project is goingOct 16 06:16
thegreatoneI don't think it will win over developersOct 16 06:16
JZAthegreatone: yupOct 16 06:16
JZAFLOSS need to work more on integration than having more new projects. IMHOOct 16 06:17
JZAnot bundle, but just to talk to each other, something like asterisk talking to drupal (there is an extension about that) but most projects are too vertically minded.Oct 16 06:17
thegreatonejavascript is okay and python is okay. As far as i know there are no browser that let you interact with client computers through pythonOct 16 06:17
thegreatonethat would be interesting howeverOct 16 06:17
mrsteveman1python in browser would be nice (Since i know python :) )Oct 16 06:18
JZAwell epiphany has python as a scripting language, but is just nowhere to go. Oct 16 06:18
thegreatonemrsteveman: yes i agreeOct 16 06:18
thegreatoneepiphany sucksOct 16 06:18
JZAthegreatone: it sucks like konqueror sucksOct 16 06:19
thegreatonei will be brutally honestOct 16 06:19
thegreatonekonqueror also sucksOct 16 06:19
JZAbut that is just because the websites are not builted for them.Oct 16 06:19
thegreatoneindeed,as long as I go to my banks website etc and it is not supported I will thing the browser stinksOct 16 06:19
thegreatonealso epiphany kept crashing on my jaunty 64bit machineOct 16 06:20
JZAthegreatone: but thats why there is a lock-on. Oct 16 06:20
thegreatone?Oct 16 06:21
thegreatoneJZA:lock-on?Oct 16 06:21
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JZAthegreatone: it will be too hard to move away from anything but JavascriptOct 16 06:29
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thegreatoneJZA: I agree with you the web moves very slowly sometimes , however all it takes is one browser to support it  Oct 16 06:31
thegreatoneand then the arm race will beginOct 16 06:31
mrsteveman1google could always write a python interpreter into a plugin :)Oct 16 06:34
JZAmrsteveman1: well the GWT does something like that.Oct 16 06:45
JZAGoogle ToolkitOct 16 06:45
JZAhttp://jtauber.com/blog/2006/05/23/primitive_python_version_of_gwt_working/Oct 16 06:47
JZAguess they are already working on itOct 16 06:48
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tessierI would like to see a general purpose virtual machine in the browser like parrot/llvmOct 16 07:38
tessierThen you could compile your java/python/lisp/haskell/javascript etc to that virtual machineOct 16 07:38
tessierI wish that the JVM were a contender for this but I just see too many complications.Oct 16 07:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - The Matrix Has You http://tinyurl.com/yky67raOct 16 07:50
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e8hRoy just listened to FOSS Weekly.  The guy really was defending the Novel stance.Oct 16 09:49
e8hI personally haven't got invovled in the debate but  at one point he calls you honuorable yet at the other end he's asking you to retract and step away.Oct 16 09:50
e8hThe whole point that was important was that Novel attack other developers int he open source realm, so there's no of discussion needed then Novel is not to be promoted by the community.  Obviously Novell has the right to do waht they want for Linux, but we the community should not be allowing them to dominate by the 'need' they create in the community.Oct 16 09:52
e8h...so there's no other discussion needed... corrrection above...Oct 16 09:53
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] #oggcamp mugs have just arrived :) They look great. Gonna break one in now with coffee http://bit.ly/8S9DJOct 16 10:34
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schestowitzTurns out Silva likes my post... http://twitter.com/homembit/statuses/4853947019  http://twitter.com/homembit/statuses/4854065141Oct 16 10:52
oiaohmhttp://shanzai.com/index.php/market-mayhem/8-op-ed/318-google-bets-on-arm-to-kill-both-intel-and-microsoft  Interesting media starting to talk about it.Oct 16 10:55
schestowitzCompiz 0.8.4 Released With New Plug-Ins, Etc http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzYxMgOct 16 10:59
schestowitzoiaohm: google just relies on making good devices (or supplying an OS to some)Oct 16 11:00
schestowitzx86 is utter relic for energy efficiencyOct 16 11:00
schestowitzIntel is very afraid of ARMOct 16 11:00
oiaohmArm is scarryly power effectiveOct 16 11:00
schestowitzits recent moves with atom to phones and sub-nptebooks uis defensiveOct 16 11:00
oiaohmMost of the media don't talk about itOct 16 11:01
schestowitzWintel press they call itOct 16 11:01
schestowitzWhere computer=Windows on x86Oct 16 11:01
schestowitzNot SPARCOct 16 11:01
oiaohmARM chips are the only ones that fully automatically power manage.Oct 16 11:01
oiaohmWithout OS really having to bother about it.Oct 16 11:01
schestowitzBut SPARC is mostly run on servers anywayOct 16 11:01
oiaohmSPARC is behind ARM in power management tech.Oct 16 11:02
oiaohmBut still way ahead of x86.Oct 16 11:02
schestowitzMy Palm's battery is still in good shape after more than 5 yearsOct 16 11:02
schestowitzIt can power it for like 5 hours depending on taskOct 16 11:02
schestowitzARM makes it easy to use no power when the device is idleOct 16 11:02
oiaohmThat chip would be power hungry compared to current day arms.Oct 16 11:02
oiaohmCurrent day arms only turn on as much as the cpu to do the instructions nothering more.Oct 16 11:03
oiaohmSPARC would be in the same class as your old Palm schestowitzOct 16 11:05
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schestowitzbblOct 16 11:11
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cubezzzwintel is over :)Oct 16 11:30
cubezzzno windows on armOct 16 11:36
oiaohmWindows CE is on arm cubezzzOct 16 11:47
oiaohmOk no windows worth a bugger is on arm.Oct 16 11:47
cubezzzI thought WinCE was going the way of the DodoOct 16 11:47
oiaohmIts not dead yet its just working it way there cubezzzOct 16 11:48
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phIRCeHello World!Oct 16 11:48
oiaohmWinCE is basically applicaiton channalaged.Oct 16 11:48
oiaohmIn the same class windows 7 would be on arm.Oct 16 11:49
oiaohmhttp://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/10/these-42-people-are-shaping-us-internet-enforcement-policy.ars  This suxsOct 16 11:50
phIRCeTitle: Secret ACTA treaty can't be shown to public, just 42 lawyers - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 46.54 KBOct 16 11:50
oiaohmWhy cannot they be open about it.Oct 16 11:50
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koeanybody here??Oct 16 13:51
P|sceansort ofOct 16 13:53
koeschestowitz seems not to be here..Oct 16 13:53
P|scean03:10 <schestowitz> bblOct 16 13:54
P|sceanits 05:53 nowOct 16 13:55
koeOK. I come later here. It is about 4 pm here.Oct 16 13:55
koeIn Finlad, I mean.Oct 16 13:56
koeBye.Oct 16 13:56
P|sceanbyeOct 16 13:56
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schestowitzACTA again....Oct 16 14:08
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EruaranhiOct 16 14:19
EruaranI'm trying out Kubuntu 9.10 here... its pretty sweetOct 16 14:20
MinceRi don't find it so sweetOct 16 14:21
MinceRaudacious keeps making kwin go to 100% cpu usageOct 16 14:21
MinceRalso, krunner died at some pointOct 16 14:22
schestowitzMinceR: why would audacious do such a thing? Weird.Oct 16 14:23
MinceRi have no ideaOct 16 14:23
schestowitzFor me kwin struggled only when I made windows giggantic in experimentsOct 16 14:23
MinceRinexplicable cpu hogging seems to be kde4's thing.Oct 16 14:23
schestowitzOvr 4000px highOct 16 14:23
MinceRin 4.2, it was plasma, now it's kwinOct 16 14:24
MinceR(though i'll need time to see if plasma is fixed or not)Oct 16 14:24
schestowitzPlasma desktop takes up resources after a whileOct 16 14:25
schestowitzI reckon it leaks some RAMOct 16 14:25
schestowitzBut it's no big dealOct 16 14:25
EruaranI had to tell a customer with Ubuntu 9.04 not to upgrade the other dayOct 16 14:26
schestowitzWhy upgade? It's not out yet.Oct 16 14:26
EruaranHe was considering upgrading when it comes outOct 16 14:27
schestowitzI make regular backups, so I can afford an errorOct 16 14:27
schestowitzEruaran: if KDE, then yes, it's probably worth upgradingOct 16 14:27
Eruaranschestowitz: its notOct 16 14:27
schestowitzBut GNOME has little in terms of improvementOct 16 14:27
EruaranIt breaks too much stuffOct 16 14:27
schestowitzThey do GNOME Shell nowOct 16 14:27
schestowitzDell has just embraced 9.04Oct 16 14:27
EruaranThings that work without problems for him under 9.04 suddently become a nightmare under 9.10... so we told him not toOct 16 14:28
EruaranGNOME Shell doesn't do anything for meOct 16 14:28
schestowitzLike what things? Drivers?Oct 16 14:28
schestowitzI could go back to GNOME...Oct 16 14:29
EruaranHis USB TV tuner, his 3G wirless internetOct 16 14:29
schestowitzI've always just booted into many DEsOct 16 14:29
schestowitzHad 7 different DEs/WMs at one stageOct 16 14:29
EruaransameOct 16 14:29
schestowitzI used GNOME when I programmed in GTKOct 16 14:29
schestowitzGTK 1.2 and GTK 2Oct 16 14:29
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schestowitzGNOME/GTK have great themesOct 16 14:30
EruaranI'm going to put Kubuntu Karmic on demo display... with the Facebook widget prominently displayed... People buy because of that sort of thing ;)Oct 16 14:30
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Projects/kmdupdate-2.htmlOct 16 14:31
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MinceRi've put kubuntu karmic beta on my new eee pc 1005haOct 16 14:31
schestowitzEruaran: use Oxygen :-)Oct 16 14:31
schestowitzNot AirOct 16 14:31
MinceRi'm going to add gnome-panel to my desktop though :)Oct 16 14:31
EruaranAir looks alrigyhtOct 16 14:31
trmancothere are lots of themesOct 16 14:32
MinceRthere are lots of themes at kde-look :>Oct 16 14:32
trmancokde has a built in (opendesktop) thing Oct 16 14:32
trmancoyeahOct 16 14:32
trmancothe best thing is, it's built right into kdeOct 16 14:32
trmancothe best thing is, it's built right into kde "more themes"Oct 16 14:32
EruaranI like the Ghost themeOct 16 14:32
trmancobblOct 16 14:32
schestowitz!google ghost theme kdeOct 16 14:34
phIRCe[1] - AMOR Themes | http://docs.kde.org/en/3.2/kdetoys/amor/amor-themes.htmlOct 16 14:34
phIRCe[2] - The AMOR Handbook | http://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kdetoys/amor/amor.pdfOct 16 14:34
phIRCe[3] - Ghost KDE-Look.org | http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/Ghost%3Fcontent%3D107902Oct 16 14:34
phIRCe[4] - KDE Community Forums • The Screenshot Thread | http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D73%26t%3D17916%26start%3D90Oct 16 14:34
schestowitzNaaaa.. http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1&id=107902&file1=107902-1.jpeg&file2=&file3=&name=Ghost&PHPSESSID=603cff63436fa465a22fea9f9501dacbOct 16 14:34
EruaranThat facebook widget is a winner... you have no idea how many teenage girls are going to come to our store and see that on the desktop and say, "OMG can we have that ?!"Oct 16 14:34
phIRCeTitle: Preview Ghost .::. Size~: 1.45 KBOct 16 14:34
schestowitzOpenSUSE has a great KDE themeOct 16 14:35
schestowitz11.2 also comes with kde4 as default selectionOct 16 14:35
schestowitzFacebook has like what now, 60k Linux servers?Oct 16 14:35
schestowitztrmanco would know...Oct 16 14:36
schestowitzFunny thing is BTW, my cousin from Florida mailed me today about Leo's showOct 16 14:36
schestowitzTurns out he listens and watches all his stuff.... and he found out I was on despite the fact that I didn't say a thing.Oct 16 14:37
schestowitzIt's available as video nowOct 16 14:37
schestowitzmp4 (no entry to FS)Oct 16 14:37
schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/10/15/google-adds-google-docs-previews-to-gmailOct 16 14:38
phIRCeTitle: Google Adds Google Docs Previews to Gmail | WebProNews .::. Size~: 27.67 KBOct 16 14:38
schestowitzI listened to the showOct 16 14:38
schestowitzThat's just not meOct 16 14:38
schestowitzIt was terrible for me... was more of an interrogation that had me sound funny and weird, very uncomfortable. Oct 16 14:38
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKcPx2jD5toOct 16 14:39
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Gates Deposition Greatest Hits .::. Size~: 129.41 KBOct 16 14:39
EruaranThere's a vid on YouTube of a guy running Google Wave on his Nokia N900Oct 16 14:40
EruaranWas interestingOct 16 14:40
schestowitzAnyway, it was nice of Leo to throw in a compliment at the endOct 16 14:40
schestowitzEruaran: which video?Oct 16 14:40
schestowitzthere are manyOct 16 14:40
schestowitzThe Nokia one with the two chaps?Oct 16 14:40
schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/10/15/twitter-cofounder-speaks-out-again-against-saleOct 16 14:41
phIRCeTitle: Twitter Cofounder Speaks Out (Again) Against Sale | WebProNews .::. Size~: 29.87 KBOct 16 14:41
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Eruaranhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqd2WCFc6mgOct 16 14:43
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Episode 38: Nokia N900 running Google Wave .::. Size~: 136.64 KBOct 16 14:43
schestowitzGreat news: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8309583.stmOct 16 14:49
DaemonFCmy cell carrier was bought out by AT&TOct 16 14:49
phIRCeTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 86.17 KBOct 16 14:49
DaemonFCand my contract isn't up until JulyOct 16 14:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] All kids in Uruguay to use GNU/Linux. http://ping.fm/EQHl5Oct 16 14:50
phIRCeTitle: BBC NEWS | Technology | Laptop for every pupil in Uruguay .::. Size~: 52.29 KBOct 16 14:51
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schestowitz"GNU/Linux Laptop for every pupil in Uruguay - http://bit.ly/2o6K3Q 362,000 pupils and 18,000 teachers: not bad (via @schestowitz)"Oct 16 14:58
schestowitzhttp://identi.ca/notice/12188136Oct 16 14:58
schestowitzHere is goes spreadingOct 16 14:58
phIRCeTitle: BBC NEWS | Technology | Laptop for every pupil in Uruguay .::. Size~: 52.73 KBOct 16 14:58
phIRCeTitle: Glyn Moody (glynmoody) 's status on Friday, 16-Oct-09 13:51:50 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 7.36 KBOct 16 14:58
DaemonFChmmm, freedom by force?Oct 16 14:59
schestowitzOracle is feuding with IBM < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1558805/oracle-feuding-ibm >Oct 16 14:59
DaemonFCwhere have I heard that before?Oct 16 14:59
DaemonFC:)Oct 16 14:59
schestowitzDaemonFC: no independence by resistenceOct 16 14:59
schestowitzOopsOct 16 14:59
schestowitzDaemonFC: no, independence by resistenceOct 16 14:59
schestowitzImportant commaOct 16 14:59
DaemonFCno, I think you were right the first timeOct 16 15:00
DaemonFCmost resistance movements end up with  worse government than they had beforeOct 16 15:00
schestowitzDaemonFC: GNU/Linux is bigger than Apple probablyOct 16 15:00
schestowitzIn the client side senseOct 16 15:00
schestowitzNot revenueOct 16 15:00
schestowitzBut useOct 16 15:00
schestowitzMacs are a niche product in a way and statistics tend to focus on particular areas that are accessible for survey makers and also English-speakingOct 16 15:00
DaemonFCthat's hardly an accomplishmentOct 16 15:00
schestowitzNet Application is cited extensively as a source that's reliable when it comes to markey share, but it's really skewed in favour of a Web audience from the United States. To make matters even more dubious, Microsoft is a client of the firm (i.e. it pays it) and the management there has some roots with Microsoft intersection.Oct 16 15:00
DaemonFCApple makes shitty niche productsOct 16 15:00
schestowitzThe fact that they halved the "market share" of Apple overnight is very telling because it shows a lack or reliability. A high number of IP addresses alone is not sufficient when trying to determine how a morehomogenous global population behaves.Oct 16 15:00
schestowitzDaemonFC: see last night's postOct 16 15:01
schestowitzMinceR alsoOct 16 15:01
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/10/15/apple-perfect-shiny-products/Oct 16 15:01
phIRCeTitle: Eye on Apple: Perfect Shiny Products | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 98.69 KBOct 16 15:01
schestowitzMinceR: have a look.Oct 16 15:01
DaemonFCwhen did I ever say Apple was cost effective or reliable? Who COULD say that without a smile on their face?Oct 16 15:01
MinceRlookingOct 16 15:02
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MinceRDaemonFC: fanboys say that and more all the timeOct 16 15:02
DaemonFCwell, fanboys of anything will worship itOct 16 15:02
DaemonFCnothing new or unique about Apple fanboysOct 16 15:02
MinceRthey're some of the worstOct 16 15:03
schestowitzMinceR: it's a lot for one day in CupertinoOct 16 15:03
MinceRand there seems to be a lot of themOct 16 15:03
MinceRschestowitz: indeedOct 16 15:03
DaemonFCschestowitz: Time capsule doesn't eat data, it sends it back to 1969Oct 16 15:03
DaemonFCa goode year wouldn't you say? B-)Oct 16 15:03
DaemonFC*goodOct 16 15:03
schestowitzSends it to the moonOct 16 15:03
schestowitzNever to return thoughOct 16 15:03
MinceRsends it to a Time Bomb that's about to detonate!Oct 16 15:04
schestowitz"It's one small step for man *noise* *noise*.... END TRANSMISSION"Oct 16 15:04
DaemonFCOne small step for man, one giant $10,000 bill on your Apple store cardOct 16 15:04
DaemonFCnyaaahOct 16 15:04
DaemonFCthe only system they have without laughable/puny specs is the Mac ProOct 16 15:05
DaemonFCloo at how much those areOct 16 15:05
DaemonFCand you could still put together a PC with the same specs for a third the price, if thatOct 16 15:05
schestowitzA Million Mutinies Now http://www.tehelka.com/story_main43.asp?filename=Ne171009a_million.aspOct 16 15:06
phIRCeTitle: Tehelka - India's Independent Weekly News Magazine .::. Size~: 31.45 KBOct 16 15:06
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DaemonFCmy ~$900 PC (including GPU) is roughly 4 times as fast as their $3,000 iMacOct 16 15:06
DaemonFCthat's pretty telling of how stupid Apple customers areOct 16 15:06
schestowitzDaemonFC: they sell to small crowds, they must get high marginsOct 16 15:06
schestowitzHad Apple sold the OS as a commodity h/w s/w for $50, how much would they earn?Oct 16 15:06
schestowitzFor hundreds of OS X engineers, maybe 30mx$50 income/year?Oct 16 15:07
DaemonFCthey might have some success if they copycatted Windows pricingOct 16 15:07
DaemonFCand competed on normal PCsOct 16 15:07
schestowitzThat's a budget of $1.5bnOct 16 15:07
Diablo-D3they're not a software business, howeverOct 16 15:07
schestowitzJust to _break even_Oct 16 15:07
DaemonFCthey'd gain in volume but not on revenue cause the hardware they make you buy to get OS X is so overpricedOct 16 15:07
schestowitzDiablo-D3: that's the pointOct 16 15:08
DaemonFCso they can do less volume for the same profit right nowOct 16 15:08
schestowitzApple, IIRC, spends like a billion/annum on marketingOct 16 15:09
DaemonFCschestowitz: That's why they're terrified of OS X on a PC, even if you pay for the boxed set of OS XOct 16 15:09
schestowitzDaemonFC: noOct 16 15:09
DaemonFCthey don't really make the big bucks off OS X box setsOct 16 15:09
schestowitzThey are terrified of the same thing as msftOct 16 15:09
schestowitzCheap OSes and commodity h/wOct 16 15:09
schestowitzPalm Pre scares them alsoOct 16 15:09
schestowitzIt threatens their jewelsOct 16 15:09
DaemonFCMicrosoft thrives on commodity hardwareOct 16 15:09
schestowitzPhones and PMPs convergeOct 16 15:09
DaemonFCthe cheaper the hardware gets, the less the customer notices the price of WindowsOct 16 15:09
schestowitzSo a phone that plays music can harm ipod franchiseOct 16 15:10
DaemonFCplus it gives them a real point to go after Apple with in those commercialsOct 16 15:10
schestowitzDaemonFC: no, they don'tOct 16 15:10
schestowitz[15:09] <DaemonFC> Microsoft thrives on commodity hardwareOct 16 15:10
schestowitzMicrosoft doesn't sell h/wOct 16 15:10
schestowitzIt licences an OSOct 16 15:10
schestowitzSometimes for $5Oct 16 15:10
schestowitzA pieceOct 16 15:10
schestowitzApiece in netbooksOct 16 15:10
schestowitzThey try to sell PCs nowOct 16 15:11
DaemonFCright, so the cheaper a company like HP can slap the system together for, hardware wise, the less the customer should notice $50 for WindowsOct 16 15:11
schestowitzMicrosoft 'Stores'Oct 16 15:11
schestowitzThey're foolishOct 16 15:11
schestowitzThey alienate partners like H-P, which is already working on its Linux distro. Dell just tosses some Ubuntu on h/wOct 16 15:11
DaemonFCwell, there is no Microsoft PCOct 16 15:11
schestowitzThere won't beOct 16 15:12
schestowitzThere will be a storeOct 16 15:12
DaemonFCmy thought was they were going to deal in HPs and Dells and such in the MS storeOct 16 15:12
schestowitzMicrosoft takes h/w marginsOct 16 15:12
schestowitzAt expense of previous partnersOct 16 15:12
schestowitzDaemonFC: Microsoft is scared of HP nowOct 16 15:12
schestowitzIn its latest SEC f' it said HP and Intel go it alone with the "L" wordOct 16 15:13
Diablo-D3[10:10:29] <schestowitz> They alienate partners like H-P, which is already working on its Linux distro. Dell just tosses some Ubuntu on h/wOct 16 15:14
DaemonFCApple is funny with bugsOct 16 15:14
Diablo-D3stop saying H-POct 16 15:14
DaemonFCMicrosoft is actually much more straightforward about admitting issues and fixing them than AppleOct 16 15:14
DaemonFCI canceled the order for that HP Pavilion I had before I ordered this oneOct 16 15:15
MinceRwhich isn't sayinh muchOct 16 15:15
MinceRs/nh/ng/Oct 16 15:15
schestowitzHP.... good open sauceOct 16 15:15
MinceRsee winxp vs sockstressOct 16 15:15
DaemonFCI saw a picture of the inside of the Pavilion's case, and everything was just sandwiched in thereOct 16 15:15
DaemonFCcan't upgrade itOct 16 15:15
DaemonFCthey installed the motherboard upside down evenOct 16 15:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Iraq approves British troops' return" http://ping.fm/s7uMf Return?!?!Oct 16 15:16
phIRCeTitle: Seven killed by Baghdad car bomb | IOL .::. Size~: 7.86 KBOct 16 15:16
DaemonFCglad I saw thatOct 16 15:17
DaemonFCIraq's new Navy? A few speedboats? Like Iran? lolOct 16 15:18
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] tribes massacred in the Amazonian forests - for corporate profits... http://ping.fm/lSai4Oct 16 15:18
schestowitzUnsafe abortions kill 70,000 a year http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/oct/14/unsafe-abortions-global-reportOct 16 15:19
schestowitzWildlife expert claims gorilla dung is critical to containing climate change http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/oct/13/gorilla-forests-climate-change-redmondOct 16 15:20
DaemonFCthere's almost never an excuse for an abortionOct 16 15:21
DaemonFCwomen just are irresponsible and whore themselves around without taking contraceptionOct 16 15:21
DaemonFCif they die having their baby cut out, they deserve itOct 16 15:22
schestowitzMight Google drop Chrome OS beta as a Windows 7 spoiler? http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=4256Oct 16 15:22
schestowitzVista 7 release is financial results spoiler alreadyOct 16 15:22
schestowitzDaemonFC: some are rapedOct 16 15:22
MinceRpoor vista7, it wouldn't be spoiled if it wasn't for chrome os :>Oct 16 15:22
DaemonFCschestowitz: I said almost never an excuseOct 16 15:23
schestowitzThe numbers come from countries that are less developed tooOct 16 15:23
DaemonFCrape is a reasonOct 16 15:23
schestowitzDaemonFC: oh.Oct 16 15:23
schestowitzNever mind, I misinterpreted what you saidOct 16 15:23
DaemonFCI don't think they should be performed left and right as a method of convenient disposal of an unborn babyOct 16 15:23
schestowitzBeing intoxicated is another issueOct 16 15:24
DaemonFCI never said they were not psychologically or medically neededOct 16 15:24
schestowitzThey don't choose to be impregnatedOct 16 15:24
schestowitzWe kill all the time, DaemonFCOct 16 15:24
schestowitzThe value of like is not a contigent issueOct 16 15:24
DaemonFCthere's how many methods of birth control? People don't use them and then they just have a viable unborn baby ripped out of them, cut up/murdered, and thrown in the trashOct 16 15:25
schestowitzFor instance, we nicely talk about the importance of lifeOct 16 15:25
DaemonFCI think those people are sickOct 16 15:25
schestowitzYet everything we eat is lifeOct 16 15:25
schestowitzAnd not only thatOct 16 15:25
schestowitzValues come into contradictionOct 16 15:25
schestowitzWe swap mosquitoes for instanceOct 16 15:25
DaemonFCso?Oct 16 15:25
schestowitzOne value comes into interference with another and we know what they isOct 16 15:25
schestowitz!google youtube obama kills flyOct 16 15:25
phIRCe[1] - YouTube - Obama Kills Fly During Interview | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DgzgOS8dbF64Oct 16 15:25
phIRCe[2] - YouTube - Obama Kills Fly: Ninja REMIX! | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D6sV3_LUBGTUOct 16 15:25
phIRCe[3] - YouTube - Obama Kills Fly Like a Ninja! - The Best of YouTube | http://www.bestofyoutube.com/story.php%3Ftitle%3Dyoutube---obama-kills-fly-like-a-ninja-1Oct 16 15:25
phIRCe[4] - Obama Kills Fly Video Youtube | http://ngepress.com/news/obama-kills-fly-video-youtube/Oct 16 15:25
DaemonFChuman life is worth more than a mosquito that carries malaria I would hopeOct 16 15:26
DaemonFC:)Oct 16 15:26
schestowitzWhy?Oct 16 15:26
schestowitzAnd why are elephant not as important?Oct 16 15:26
schestowitzDo we judge by mass?Oct 16 15:26
schestowitzSelf awareness?Oct 16 15:26
DaemonFCso that mosquito should be allowedto let live?Oct 16 15:26
schestowitzCapability of introspection?Oct 16 15:26
DaemonFCEven if it bites you and you die?Oct 16 15:26
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DaemonFCmosquitos are not self aware Oct 16 15:27
DaemonFCthey live like a few months?Oct 16 15:27
DaemonFCwhen they die there will still be hundreds of billions of the damned things?Oct 16 15:27
*schestowitz eastsOct 16 15:28
*schestowitz eatsOct 16 15:28
schestowitz[15:27] <DaemonFC> when they die there will still be hundreds of billions of the damned things?Oct 16 15:28
schestowitzLike humansOct 16 15:28
MinceRfeasts!Oct 16 15:28
schestowitzno, just toastOct 16 15:29
DaemonFCyou have to go on a stretch to say mosquitos are as important as humansOct 16 15:29
schestowitzMy diets' been s*Oct 16 15:29
schestowitzI need to benchpress 160kg this weekendOct 16 15:29
DaemonFCschestowitz: Human activity also causes some things to thrive that may not have otherwiseOct 16 15:29
DaemonFCand most of the irresponsible population growth is caused in countries like India and ChinaOct 16 15:30
schestowitz[15:29] <DaemonFC> schestowitz: Human activity also causes some things to thrive that may not have otherwiseOct 16 15:30
schestowitzhumans use biology like they use goldOct 16 15:30
schestowitz!google youtube chicken production lineOct 16 15:31
phIRCe[1] - YouTube - Center Filled Wafer Production Line | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D6NQEdNrFp5MOct 16 15:31
phIRCe[2] - YouTube - chicken without a head | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DztwrnkLB7Q0Oct 16 15:31
phIRCe[3] - Small-Scale Poultry Production Resources | http://nesfp.nutrition.tufts.edu/downloads/PeteJenPoultry_Resources.pdfOct 16 15:31
phIRCe[4] - Agricultural Resources Dairy, Livestock, Poultry Production | http://extension.unh.edu/Counties/Carroll/docs/Calivestock08.pdfOct 16 15:31
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schestowitzMichael Dell: Desktop PCs are getting 'cannibalized' by mobile http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/10/michael_dell_desktop_computers_are_getting_cannibalized_by_mobile.html?ana=from_rssOct 16 15:44
phIRCeTitle: Michael Dell: Desktop PCs are getting 'cannibalized' by mobile .::. Size~: 45.59 KBOct 16 15:44
schestowitzNokia N900 can eliminate the need for some to buy a computerOct 16 15:45
schestowitzThey can do E-mail and maybe banking online with that thingOct 16 15:45
schestowitzhttp://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-cpufreq-3/index.htmlOct 16 15:46
phIRCeTitle: Reduce Linux power consumption, Part 3: Tuning results .::. Size~: 69.86 KBOct 16 15:46
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schestowitzLinux Users Still Left Out, Why Source Code Matters to End Users http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/10/linux-users-sti.htmlOct 16 15:50
phIRCeTitle: Linux Today Blog .::. Size~: 74.41 KBOct 16 15:50
schestowitzhttp://www.serverwatch.com/eur/article.php/3843511/Recent-Foibles-Expose-Dark-Side-of--Cloud-Computing.htmOct 16 15:51
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DaemonFCspeaking of freedom of the press, I'm glad I got to call out that hospital in the local paperOct 16 15:54
mceplI have comment about http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Mono_Applications ... could you please add jbrout as an alternative to f-spot? After looking for the non-Mono equivalent of f-spot I found it the best photo-collection management app to the extent that I have maintained it for some time at Fedora.Oct 16 15:55
phIRCeTitle: Mono Applications - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 21.33 KBOct 16 15:56
DaemonFCjust going to the ER and getting an IV of Dilantin to bring you out of a seizure is nearly $3,000, and that's cause I didn't take an ambulance over thereOct 16 15:56
DaemonFCthat would have pinned another $500 onOct 16 15:56
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schestowitzmcepl: hiOct 16 16:06
schestowitzSure, you can edit the page tooOct 16 16:07
schestowitzIf you can't, I'll add it myselfOct 16 16:07
mceplwell, i don't have an account ... oh well :(Oct 16 16:09
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DaemonFCthis integrated sound chipset sounds fantasticOct 16 16:10
DaemonFCthey've really gotten betterOct 16 16:10
Diablo-D3I dont know why they just dont put a via envy24 on itOct 16 16:11
DaemonFCit's some RealTek HD Audio 7.1 thingOct 16 16:11
DaemonFCit's niceOct 16 16:11
mceplschestowitz: ok, doneOct 16 16:11
schestowitzNews Corp Lawyer: Aggregators Steal From Us! News Corp: Hey Check Out Our Aggregator! < http://techdirt.com/articles/20091014/1831246537.shtml >Oct 16 16:12
phIRCeTitle: News Corp Lawyer: Aggregators Steal From Us!  News Corp: Hey Check Out Our Aggregator! | Techdirt .::. Size~: 75.81 KBOct 16 16:12
schestowitzmcepl: thanksOct 16 16:12
DaemonFCFaux NoiseOct 16 16:12
schestowitzNusanceOct 16 16:12
schestowitzNews Cr*pOct 16 16:12
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schestowitzamarsh04: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26210117-601,00.htmlOct 16 16:16
phIRCeTitle: The Australian, News from Australia's National Newspaper .::. Size~: 75.22 KBOct 16 16:16
schestowitzDaemonFC:Oct 16 16:17
schestowitz!google o'reilly ownedOct 16 16:17
phIRCe[1] - YouTube - Bill O'Reilly Gets Owned By Kid | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DbeJ9yJpR_DAOct 16 16:17
phIRCe[2] - YouTube - Kirk Cameron gets Owned. Evolution is a myth! | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dr5J0cSnYnFgOct 16 16:17
phIRCe[3] - Bill O'Reilly gets owned and freaks out | http://digg.com/people/Bill_O_Reilly_gets_owned_and_freaks_outOct 16 16:17
phIRCe[4] - O'Reilly-Sucks.com | http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/Oct 16 16:17
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schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20091014/1838536538.shtmlOct 16 16:19
phIRCeTitle: Michael Dell Recognizes Blocking What Customers Want To Protect Your Own Biz Model Is Dumb | Techdirt .::. Size~: 47.72 KBOct 16 16:19
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DaemonFCschestowitz: HP lost a sale because of how they designed that PavilionOct 16 16:22
DaemonFCI wanted to put a GPU in it and they stuffed the case too full to let you put one inOct 16 16:23
DaemonFCHP has done some of that for a while now thoughOct 16 16:23
DaemonFCMicrosoft emailed me to tell me my XBOX 360 is fixed and on the way back :POct 16 16:26
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BalrogDaemonFC: I wonder how long it will last this timeOct 16 16:28
DaemonFCwell, supposedly they've fixed the defect that was causing the overheating issueOct 16 16:29
DaemonFCI'll find out I guessOct 16 16:29
DaemonFCat first they were fixing them and sending them back with the same defect, just to die againOct 16 16:29
DaemonFCthis will be my eighth consoleOct 16 16:29
DaemonFCit launched in November 2005, so we'll say 35 monthsOct 16 16:30
trmancohttp://identi.ca/notice/12194489Oct 16 16:30
trmancololOct 16 16:31
phIRCeTitle: Aaron Toponce (atoponce) 's status on Friday, 16-Oct-09 15:23:56 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 7.31 KBOct 16 16:31
DaemonFC4.3 months is how long my average XBOX 360 has lastedOct 16 16:31
schestowitzhttp://odtv.me/2009/10/floss-91/Oct 16 16:32
schestowitzIt was terrible for me, but some people disagree. Oct 16 16:32
phIRCeTitle: ODTV | On Demand TWiT Video | all-volunteer and non-commercial .::. Size~: 14.72 KBOct 16 16:32
schestowitzI sound a lot better when not under pressure, but oh well.... :-(Oct 16 16:33
schestowitzDaemonFC: do you not change xbox?Oct 16 16:33
schestowitzHave you given upOct 16 16:33
trmancono ogg?Oct 16 16:33
schestowitzBTW, my typo on Twitter ("secrecy") showed up on the screenOct 16 16:33
DaemonFCmehOct 16 16:33
schestowitzI know how to spell it correctly. That's just embarrassing.Oct 16 16:33
schestowitztrmanco: no ogg, not anymoreOct 16 16:34
schestowitzThey stopped ogg a while ago, no volunteers for nowOct 16 16:34
schestowitzUnless you can find an oggOct 16 16:34
schestowitztrmanco: Oct 16 16:35
schestowitzhttp://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/10/apple_says_its_looking_forward_to_windows_7_launch_too.html?ana=from_rssOct 16 16:35
phIRCeTitle: Apple's own Windows 7 pitch .::. Size~: 43.89 KBOct 16 16:35
schestowitz"Despite positive reviews for Windows 7, the upgrade process for the millions of people still using the older Windows XP won't be simple. Unlike the shift from the newer Windows Vista, the move from Windows XP to Windows 7 requires a clean installation -- which means backing up data before installing Windows 7, then restoring data and reinstalling applications after the new OS is on the machine."Oct 16 16:35
schestowitzHehe.Oct 16 16:35
schestowitz"Positive reviews"Oct 16 16:35
schestowitzYes, MSDN subs and people whom Microsoft paid, amongst othersOct 16 16:35
trmancowhat, technet?Oct 16 16:35
trmancoLOLOct 16 16:35
schestowitzTechFlash too is PAID by MicrosoftOct 16 16:35
schestowitzTo spout out such statementsOct 16 16:35
trmancothat's microsofts palace of windows devsOct 16 16:35
schestowitzNaked emperorOct 16 16:35
trmancobut you need to pay to get a free one year ticketOct 16 16:36
schestowitzEditors would probably not publish 'outrageous' claims that say Vista 7 is not welcomedOct 16 16:36
schestowitzMicrosoft set the agenda/trend usign moneyOct 16 16:36
schestowitzJust as it did with VistaOct 16 16:36
schestowitztrmanco: DaemonFC is a sub iircOct 16 16:38
schestowitzBut he dared to criticise Vista 7Oct 16 16:38
schestowitzSo the 'cops' started to curse himOct 16 16:38
schestowitzSuggesting he had mental issuesOct 16 16:38
schestowitzSo he took down the videos that criticise Vista 7Oct 16 16:38
DaemonFCI have a Technet account and a DreamSpark accountOct 16 16:38
schestowitzMicrosoft must have been happyOct 16 16:38
DaemonFCthey keep giving me crap I don't even have any use forOct 16 16:38
schestowitzAnother source of dissent bit the dustOct 16 16:38
DaemonFCschestowitz: I still haven't used my Windows Server 2008 R2 licenseOct 16 16:39
DaemonFCwnat it? :POct 16 16:39
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DaemonFC*wantOct 16 16:39
schestowitzWhy use it?Oct 16 16:40
schestowitzIt's a licenceOct 16 16:40
schestowitzIt's nothing physical to redeemOct 16 16:40
DaemonFCI don't need Windows ServerOct 16 16:40
schestowitzVirtual goodsOct 16 16:40
DaemonFCtoo bloated with stuff I don't needOct 16 16:40
schestowitzYou could also use up your infinity licences to use DebianOct 16 16:40
schestowitzOn 1,0000000000000000000000000 machinesOct 16 16:40
schestowitzWhile Microsoft will say how it donated $1,0000000000000000000000000000000000000 worth of software to poor schoolsOct 16 16:41
schestowitzThe analogy would go like, giving African tiresOct 16 16:41
DaemonFCmulti billion dollar tax deduction on products that have no physical value and cost nothing to makeOct 16 16:41
schestowitzFree Dumlop tiresOct 16 16:41
schestowitz*DunlopOct 16 16:41
schestowitzLeave it for them to find a car to put these onOct 16 16:41
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schestowitzBut it's a bad analogyOct 16 16:42
schestowitzTHe parable here assumed that tires is not scarceOct 16 16:42
schestowitz*AreOct 16 16:42
DaemonFCschestowitz: Those cheap Walmart tires are actually pretty goodOct 16 16:43
DaemonFC$40 each and I've had them on that car for like four yearsOct 16 16:43
DaemonFCstill have more than half their treadOct 16 16:43
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DaemonFCdamndest thing is that Firestone tires which are like $200+ per don't last that longOct 16 16:43
DaemonFCschestowitz: Brand names are a salami slicing operationOct 16 16:44
DaemonFCper item it may not seem like a fortune, but overall, it isOct 16 16:44
DaemonFCthere's also other ways to be sneaky/cheap bastard depending on how you look at itOct 16 16:45
schestowitzMy Nike pair of shoes hardly lastedOct 16 16:46
DaemonFCI get a better haircut for $5 at the beauty school than I get at the other places for $15Oct 16 16:46
schestowitzOne pair that I had for like six (6!) years is still OKOct 16 16:46
DaemonFCyeah, schestowitz, do they not have outlet stores there?Oct 16 16:46
schestowitzAnd the brand is lesser knownOct 16 16:46
DaemonFCjust get a pair where the Vietnamese school kid messed up a stitch and was taken out back and shotOct 16 16:46
DaemonFCsame shoes for half priceOct 16 16:46
DaemonFClolOct 16 16:46
schestowitzWage slavery..Oct 16 16:47
DaemonFCyou can't get a decent pair of shoes anymore, they all outsource to third world slave laborOct 16 16:47
DaemonFCbuy cheap and sell dearOct 16 16:47
schestowitz!google youtube nike wage slaveryOct 16 16:47
phIRCe[1] - YouTube - Zoned for Slavery: The Child Behind the Label | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D1XtYhfcEZ9AOct 16 16:47
phIRCe[2] - YouTube - Diezel P - Modern Day Slaves | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DT94mrzc4B4sOct 16 16:47
phIRCe[3] - AdScam/The Horror! : Wieden + Kennedy opens mouth, puts large Nike ... | http://adscam.typepad.com/my_weblog/2009/07/wieden-kennedy-opens-mouth-puts-large-nike-in-it.htmlOct 16 16:47
phIRCe[4] - Tiger Woods should feel SOME guilt about his NIKE contract ... | http://www.fannation.com/throwdowns/show/287577-tiger-woods-should-feel-some-guilt-about-his-nike-contract%3Fcategory_id%3D17Oct 16 16:47
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schestowitzhttp://www.tuxdeluxe.org/node/299 "mono serves and promotes a CONVICTED monopolist's interests and Judas Novell is helping them."Oct 16 16:50
phIRCeTitle: Monomania | Tux Deluxe .::. Size~: 65.23 KBOct 16 16:50
schestowitzhttp://www.insidesocal.com/click/2009/10/mono-a-mano---many-of-us-are-w.htmlOct 16 16:56
schestowitzit's sad that Mono causes issue to GNOMEOct 16 16:56
schestowitzThey can separate the two betterOct 16 16:57
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schestowitzhttp://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Cornell-CUAUV-Nova/?kc=rssOct 16 16:59
phIRCeTitle: Linux-based robot sub wins top award - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 64.92 KBOct 16 16:59
schestowitzHey, wallcOct 16 16:59
wallchi!Oct 16 16:59
schestowitzSo who's that rude person who put you off of IRC?Oct 16 16:59
schestowitzwallc: have you met phIRCe yet?Oct 16 17:00
schestowitzIt kicks for obscene languageOct 16 17:00
wallcyes, phIRCe and I have met :)Oct 16 17:00
wallcno comment on the other question...i can see he's loggd in now. Oct 16 17:02
wallc*logged*Oct 16 17:02
schestowitzWe'll make better effort to control mannersOct 16 17:02
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wallcwell, people are people, can't really control them...i'm not fragile.  i just didn't want to be part of the conversation at the timeOct 16 17:03
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schestowitzwallc: the issue is thisOct 16 17:05
schestowitzPeople judge the site based on collective behaviourOct 16 17:05
schestowitzAs in, link to comments and stuffOct 16 17:05
schestowitzAnd although I don't bring up examples here, I do see it behind the scenesOct 16 17:05
schestowitzEndless efforts to whip people who link here using all sorts of fraudulent claims like me blaming Microsoft for Nina Reiser's death (that's a lie)Oct 16 17:06
schestowitzOthers show commenters with anti-Microsoft vitriolOct 16 17:07
wallcthat's just crazy...who'd believe a thing like that???Oct 16 17:07
schestowitzwallc: people who distort storiesOct 16 17:07
schestowitzAnd rely on people not verifying the claimsOct 16 17:07
schestowitzThere are worse onesOct 16 17:07
schestowitzLike me saying I went on a night outOct 16 17:07
schestowitzTrolls distort it as me "going to a gay bar"Oct 16 17:08
schestowitzOr me giving testimony to the police to help themOct 16 17:08
schestowitzTrolls distort this as "me being arrested"Oct 16 17:08
DaemonFChmmmOct 16 17:08
DaemonFCdid something naughty at the gay bar and got arrested?Oct 16 17:09
DaemonFC:DOct 16 17:09
schestowitzSo I now keep private life off the record. They distort thingsOct 16 17:09
schestowitzTestimony based on witness account->crimeOct 16 17:09
schestowitz"Going out"->"being homosexual"Oct 16 17:09
DaemonFCthe last time I went, we were all drunkOct 16 17:10
DaemonFCbacked into a CadillacOct 16 17:10
DaemonFCwhooopsOct 16 17:10
DaemonFC:DOct 16 17:10
schestowitzI can't think of anyone in my family ever having problems with the policeOct 16 17:11
schestowitzI have a small family anyway.. but still. My only uncle (I have no aunts) is a court judgeOct 16 17:11
Diablo-D3[12:05:31] <schestowitz> Endless efforts to whip people who link here using all sorts of fraudulent claims like me blaming Microsoft for Nina Reiser's death (that's a lie)Oct 16 17:11
wallcwell, i know you have to defend yourself from a lot of garbage.  it seems like it's overwhelming sometimes.  but people with any sense will know better than to believe the garbage, don't you think?Oct 16 17:13
wallcOne thing I know for sure is that lies always come out...always.  It's just miserable for those that have to deal with it in the meantime.Oct 16 17:14
schestowitzwallc: not that.Oct 16 17:15
schestowitzTHe thing is, they needn't more ammoOct 16 17:15
schestowitzSOme people at the highest place whose name I can't share do read the site but can't quite link to itOct 16 17:16
schestowitzIt's because of the 'bad' contentOct 16 17:16
schestowitzThe type of stuff that repels and becomes personal attacksOct 16 17:16
schestowitzIt used to come from BN commentsOct 16 17:16
schestowitzNow people need to register to comment, so it's betterOct 16 17:16
wallcare they specific as to what is considered "bad" content?Oct 16 17:16
schestowitzPeople ending posts with a quick "F* you" comment are not helpingOct 16 17:17
schestowitzwallc: PJ modified comments to obfuscate bad wordsOct 16 17:17
schestowitzElse it becomes like 4chanOct 16 17:17
wallcPJ?  Obfuscate?  I don't think so, she's pretty up-front about deleting comments that don't abide by the forum rules.Oct 16 17:18
schestowitzwallc: BTW, I don't think I want to share that video of the showOct 16 17:18
schestowitzIt's just not meOct 16 17:18
schestowitztrmanco makes an ogg from the videoOct 16 17:19
trmancotryingOct 16 17:19
schestowitzwallc: my family found out about that show without me mentioning it. Oct 16 17:19
schestowitzhttp://odtv.me/2009/10/floss-91/ [video]Oct 16 17:19
wallcis that a problem?Oct 16 17:19
phIRCeTitle: ODTV | On Demand TWiT Video | all-volunteer and non-commercial .::. Size~: 14.72 KBOct 16 17:19
schestowitzMy couson (at Davie) says: "No, I listened to the podcast at FLOSS Weekly on TWIT and at the beginning, before you came on they mentioned you would be voice only...Leo said had he known, he would have sent you one beforehand, but then joked (all in fun) that you might not have accepted it since it's not an open source product."Oct 16 17:19
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schestowitz*cousinOct 16 17:19
schestowitz[17:19] <wallc> is that a problem?Oct 16 17:20
wallcWell, i think you did a great job under the circumstancesOct 16 17:20
schestowitzhad I been myself, it would not be a problemOct 16 17:20
schestowitzThe thing is, I realise the site is seen as "Controversial"Oct 16 17:21
schestowitzSo any time I go live on a show I'm outnumbered by opposersOct 16 17:21
kecskebakI thought you were very good on FLOSS Weekly considering Jono Bacon was trying to aim each known logical fallacy at you in order; Poisoning the Well, Weasel Words, Ad hominem tu quoque - they were all there.Oct 16 17:21
schestowitzChannels like Fox do this to peopleOct 16 17:21
schestowitzAnd I don't interrupt questions, even when they contain lots of false informationOct 16 17:22
schestowitzI lost my calm insideOct 16 17:22
schestowitzBut didn't quite show itOct 16 17:22
wallcbut you didn't lose it on the air, and that's what countsOct 16 17:22
schestowitzI also brought up almost nothing negative about Microsoft and Novell because negativity does not help any causeOct 16 17:23
schestowitzSo I was left attacked and unwilling to strike backOct 16 17:23
wallci think you are being much too critical of yourself.Oct 16 17:23
kecskebakI thought it was very unfair the number of questions that were put to you which began "A lot of people say/think...". That's OK for chatting to friends but not an interview.Oct 16 17:23
schestowitzPeople love Leo and Jono; I can't impolitely tell jono offOct 16 17:23
wallci agree...Oct 16 17:23
schestowitzI spoke yto Jono for like an hour after the showOct 16 17:24
schestowitzhe's cool, but on the show he was pressured to put forth the classic liesOct 16 17:24
kecskebakWho by?Oct 16 17:24
wallcI agree with kecskebak.Oct 16 17:24
schestowitzkecskebak: the anti-BN gangOct 16 17:24
schestowitzThey were all over IRCOct 16 17:24
schestowitzNovell and Friends{TM}Oct 16 17:24
schestowitzPeople from here were in IRC and saw itOct 16 17:25
schestowitzSockpuppetsOct 16 17:25
schestowitzhttp://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/15/microsofts-pinkdanger-backup-problem-blamed-on-roz-ho/Oct 16 17:25
kecskebakI was shouting the logical fallacies at my monitor as I heard each one.Oct 16 17:25
schestowitzHeh!Oct 16 17:25
phIRCeTitle:   Microsofts Pink/Danger backup problem blamed on Roz Ho  RoughlyDrafted Magazine .::. Size~: 55.52 KBOct 16 17:25
schestowitzkecskebak: I ought to have prepared. I never doOct 16 17:26
schestowitzEven when I give presentations here I don't prepare reallyOct 16 17:26
schestowitzJust do the slides... or answer questionsOct 16 17:26
schestowitzThe ending was silly cause he gave me this "make your statement" momentOct 16 17:27
schestowitzAs though I had something structually-coherent preparedOct 16 17:27
kecskebakI think he did that to make up for the fact that he felt he went in too hardOct 16 17:27
schestowitzAnd given concision contraints I can only ever recite conventionsOct 16 17:27
schestowitzGreat claims requires great evidence/proofOct 16 17:27
schestowitzI can't do it over the phoneOct 16 17:27
wallci also got the feeling they knew they'd treated you badly.Oct 16 17:27
kecskebakConsidering how friendly the podcast usually is, that episode sticks out like a sore thumbOct 16 17:28
schestowitzTheyn typically host other folks... as programmersOct 16 17:28
schestowitzThey didn't point out that I too am a FOSS developerOct 16 17:28
schestowitzAll my projects -- including those I'm hired to write -- are GPLedOct 16 17:28
schestowitzAlthough in one case I was forced to accept BSD for my codeOct 16 17:29
schestowitzMy site is so badly out of dateOct 16 17:29
schestowitz2003/2004/5 mostlyOct 16 17:29
schestowitzI have lots of new code I'll need to uploadOct 16 17:30
schestowitzhttp://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/14/lance-ulanoff-and-robbie-bach-explain-why-library-size-doesnt-matter-for-wimo-apps-vs-the-iphone/Oct 16 17:30
phIRCeTitle:   Lance Ulanoff and Robbie Bach explain why library size doesnt matter for WiMo apps vs the iPhone  RoughlyDrafted Magazine .::. Size~: 55.79 KBOct 16 17:30
Balrogmeh idk about DilgerOct 16 17:30
schestowitzDilger published a bookOct 16 17:31
Balroghe used to be honest but lately he turned into an Apple supporter, even defending apple when it doesn't make senseOct 16 17:31
Balrogyea I heardOct 16 17:31
schestowitzSO that must have been why RD has been so quietOct 16 17:31
schestowitzjono thinks I should neglect BN to do a bookOct 16 17:31
wallcYes!  a book!  :)Oct 16 17:31
schestowitzMATLAB managers contacted me in 2004 suggesting that I write a bookOct 16 17:31
schestowitzI declinedOct 16 17:31
Balroghe wrote a not-very-nice article about John Gruber, who is very well respectedOct 16 17:32
schestowitzSO that I can finished more important things at the timeOct 16 17:32
schestowitzBalrog: Gruber wrote some good stuff about MicrosoftOct 16 17:32
trmancohttp://twitter.com/BrokenWindows_/status/4919571983Oct 16 17:32
phIRCeTitle: Twitter / Broken Windows: (1/2) Windows7,WindowsExpl ... .::. Size~: 9.28 KBOct 16 17:32
Balrogyea. I like his commentaryOct 16 17:32
Balrogand he's not really one of those people that support Apple no matter what eitherOct 16 17:32
Balroglike Dilger seems to be nowOct 16 17:33
Balroghis article on Apple dropping UTIs borders on incompetence reallyOct 16 17:33
schestowitztrmanco: so it's like Vista thenOct 16 17:33
trmancoI guessOct 16 17:33
Balroghere's the real story about that: http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits/2009/09/metadata-madness.arsOct 16 17:34
phIRCeTitle: Metadata madness - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 53.21 KBOct 16 17:34
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BalrogDilger said that creator codes aren't necessary anymore because the developer can assign uniform type identifiers hierarchially and give files a certain UTIOct 16 17:35
schestowitzhttp://twitter.com/sudheera/statuses/4913775678Oct 16 17:35
schestowitz"mo bacon's B.SHIT on FLOSS Weekly. This time with Boycott Novell. Next book "Art of being a condescending ass"? http://twit.tv/floss91 #TWiT"Oct 16 17:35
phIRCeTitle: Twitter / sudheera: mo bacon's B.SHIT on FLOSS ... .::. Size~: 9.32 KBOct 16 17:35
phIRCeTitle: The TWiT Netcast Network with Leo Laporte .::. Size~: 22.71 KBOct 16 17:35
Balrogbut there's no API to select a UTI for a file; that's determined by *extension*Oct 16 17:35
Balrogthat ugly part of the filenameOct 16 17:35
schestowitzBalrog: I discovered more about kde4 and metadata recentlyOct 16 17:35
Balrogschestowitz: explain.Oct 16 17:35
schestowitzIt's nice how it's kept as you move files aroundOct 16 17:36
schestowitzThere's also nepumok Oct 16 17:36
BalrogOS X supports metadata nicely in the filesystem. But the OS doesn't utilize it as much as it should :(Oct 16 17:36
Balrognepomuk?Oct 16 17:36
MinceRmany fs-es support extended attributes, but they're rarely used.Oct 16 17:36
BalrogI know :(Oct 16 17:37
BalrogApple currently uses it to store stuff like where a file was downloaded fromOct 16 17:37
Balrogor the resource fork (a holdover from the old days)Oct 16 17:37
Balrogor compressed data with this new filesystem compressionOct 16 17:37
schestowitzBalrog: yes.Oct 16 17:38
schestowitz!google nepomukOct 16 17:38
phIRCe[1] - NEPOMUK - The Social Semantic Desktop | http://nepomuk.semanticdesktop.org/Oct 16 17:38
phIRCe[2] - Semantic Desktop with KDE | Nepomuk | http://nepomuk.kde.org/Oct 16 17:38
phIRCe[3] - NEPOMUK (framework) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEPOMUK_(framework)Oct 16 17:38
phIRCe[4] - John of Nepomuk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_NepomukOct 16 17:38
Balrogthere's enough room to store a UTI (to replace the type code) and a bundle identifier (to replace the creator code) but they don't :(Oct 16 17:38
Balroginstead relying only on extensions and dropping creator code support completely in 10.6Oct 16 17:38
Balrogmany people are upsetOct 16 17:38
Balrogsomeone suggested this fix: http://www.openradar.appspot.com/5909813Oct 16 17:39
phIRCeTitle: rdar://5909813: Request for an updated document typing/ownership model .::. Size~: 15.88 KBOct 16 17:39
Balrogread it; it's not mac specificOct 16 17:39
Balrog(rdar: is not important here)Oct 16 17:39
schestowitzNASA IT security is vulnerable < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1558884/nasa-it-security-vulnerable >Oct 16 17:40
MinceRexpecting crApple to innovate is futile. maybe they'll consider doing it once a major FLOSS OS/DE does it.Oct 16 17:40
schestowitzOr just fork itOct 16 17:42
schestowitzKDEkitOct 16 17:42
MinceRlolOct 16 17:42
MinceRindeedOct 16 17:42
Balrogwell apple is known to bend if there's enough pressureOct 16 17:42
schestowitzGoogle to resume hiring, acquisitions http://infotech.indiatimes.com/news/internet/Google-to-resume-hiring-acquisitions/articleshow/5130154.cmsOct 16 17:42
MinceRthough using the entirety of KDE instead of the proprietary mess they keep coming up with would be probably the greatest step forward for themOct 16 17:42
schestowitzKDE4 impressed me a lot, stillOct 16 17:43
BalrogMinceR: unfortunately, KDE != ObjC/CocoaOct 16 17:43
MinceRthey had an opportunity when they did osx, sadly they didn't.Oct 16 17:43
schestowitzkde is mostly c++Oct 16 17:43
Balrogthey'd be better off working with GNUStep but I don't know if that will happenOct 16 17:43
MinceRBalrog: indeed, C++/Qt/KDE > ObjC/CocoaOct 16 17:43
BalrogMinceR: you think soOct 16 17:43
Balrogothers may notOct 16 17:43
schestowitzc++ developers know what they doOct 16 17:43
MinceRothers may be wrong.Oct 16 17:43
schestowitzThey also collaborate a lot with libsOct 16 17:43
Balrogor you may be wrong.Oct 16 17:43
Balrogor it may be a subjective matterOct 16 17:44
schestowitzNot sure how Apple does in that repsectOct 16 17:44
schestowitzMany KDE classes are sharedOct 16 17:44
Balrogschestowitz: what do you mean?Oct 16 17:44
schestowitzmy editor (kate) is just a component of kdevelop (kpart)Oct 16 17:44
schestowitzMy editor in knode is also a reuse of some other kde codeOct 16 17:44
MinceRin any case, implementing macos look-and-feel on top of a GNU/Linux system is pretty trivialOct 16 17:44
schestowitzThunderBrowse uses GeckoOct 16 17:44
Balrogwell in Mac OS, Apple just has text editor classesOct 16 17:44
MinceRand would result in a better system than any of the macos-es so far.Oct 16 17:45
Balrogin the Cocoa librariesOct 16 17:45
schestowitzOKOct 16 17:45
BalrogTextedit and Xcode use the same classesOct 16 17:45
schestowitzThat's why I said I don't knowOct 16 17:45
MinceR(especially if a change in look-and-feel on the scale of os9->osx is acceptable)Oct 16 17:45
schestowitzI reserved judgmentOct 16 17:45
Balrogwell just so you know, the Cocoa API is extremely richOct 16 17:45
schestowitz" change in look-and-feel"?Oct 16 17:45
schestowitzHeh.Oct 16 17:45
schestowitzNot in Apple worldOct 16 17:45
Balrogit's so huge that many beginning programmers get lost with the weightOct 16 17:46
MinceRthey did change itOct 16 17:46
schestowitzYou can change a lot more _in WINDOWS_Oct 16 17:46
MinceRsee os9->osxOct 16 17:46
Balrogthis is on the Mac; the iPhone is a different storyOct 16 17:46
Balrogheh, I'm not talking about what you can changeOct 16 17:46
BalrogI'm talking about what they give the programmer to work withOct 16 17:46
schestowitzMinceR: yes, they changed it, then left no room for hackabilityOct 16 17:46
MinceRthey never leave room for thatOct 16 17:46
schestowitzYou must agree to how Mr. Jobs loves to workOct 16 17:46
MinceRand it's costing themOct 16 17:46
MinceRthey take a lot more effort to develop it and end up with a lot less valueOct 16 17:47
schestowitzNot reallyOct 16 17:47
schestowitzIt's the whole "control the image" (or "get the Mac experience(TM)")Oct 16 17:47
Balrogfortunately, Mac OS X isn't locked down like the iPhoneOct 16 17:47
schestowitzYou can't trim down OS X muchOct 16 17:47
Balrogand it's not difficult to inject code; not trivial, but not that hardOct 16 17:47
schestowitzBut then again, they control what h/w you have availableOct 16 17:48
MinceRonly if you consider being locked-down part of the experienceOct 16 17:48
schestowitzYou can use euphemisms and marketing to judtify thisOct 16 17:48
schestowitzLockin=goodOct 16 17:48
schestowitzTaking orders=easyOct 16 17:48
Balrogwell I don't. I refuse to buy a device from any company that can't be jailbroken / accessed fullyOct 16 17:48
schestowitzDroping bombs =easyOct 16 17:48
schestowitz[for you]Oct 16 17:48
MinceRbbl, going homeOct 16 17:49
schestowitzNot for those 30,000 feet beneath.. where you can't hear the screams and see the bloodOct 16 17:49
BalrogI wonder why apple didn't do anything significant about jailbreaking until nowOct 16 17:49
schestowitzIt's the idea that you can sell preferenceOct 16 17:49
schestowitzSo Apple can tell people that choice is badOct 16 17:49
schestowitzMany distros=bad is like "War is peace"Oct 16 17:49
schestowitzThey repeat it many times for it to be assumed a truismOct 16 17:49
BalrogI think Jon Zdziarski got it right: http://twitter.com/jzdziarski/status/4903342975 http://twitter.com/jzdziarski/status/4903395302Oct 16 17:50
phIRCeTitle: Twitter / Jonathan Zdziarski: None of these anti-jailbre ... .::. Size~: 9.33 KBOct 16 17:50
schestowitzYou don't say "many cars"=badOct 16 17:50
phIRCeTitle: Twitter / Jonathan Zdziarski: You'd think that running a ... .::. Size~: 9.32 KBOct 16 17:50
schestowitzYou like choiceOct 16 17:50
schestowitzEven if many cars use the same componentsOct 16 17:50
schestowitzOften from the same suppliers, e.g. GoodyearOct 16 17:50
schestowitz"What a waste!!!"Oct 16 17:50
schestowitz"There will never be the year of the automobile"Oct 16 17:50
Balrogdid you look at those two tweets?Oct 16 17:51
schestowitzThey spend too much time "reinventing the wheel"Oct 16 17:51
schestowitzJust buy EdselOct 16 17:51
schestowitzBalrog: good twitsOct 16 17:51
schestowitzSurgeries and plants are a form of reverse engineering to inventOct 16 17:52
Balrogyea. I was lucky enough to get a jailbreakable and unlockable device. I may eventually sell it for $$$$$Oct 16 17:52
Balrogyes exactlyOct 16 17:52
Balrogimplants *Oct 16 17:52
schestowitzAll scientists were like thatOct 16 17:53
schestowitzTinkerersOct 16 17:53
schestowitzGoogle tooOct 16 17:53
schestowitzHacking with GNUOct 16 17:53
schestowitzin a garage Oct 16 17:53
Balroghopefully when the Apple // ATT contract runs out this may change. I'm not holding my breath thoughOct 16 17:53
schestowitzMessing about with old commodity PCsOct 16 17:53
Balrogyea exactlyOct 16 17:53
schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/10/16/yahoo-shutting-down-paid-inclusionOct 16 17:54
phIRCeTitle: Yahoo Shutting Down Paid Inclusion | WebProNews .::. Size~: 28.96 KBOct 16 17:54
schestowitzA shame to begin withOct 16 17:54
schestowitzWeb... by the rich for the rich?Oct 16 17:54
Balrogschestowitz: the yahoo  article?Oct 16 17:55
schestowitzHehe: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8310277.stmOct 16 17:57
phIRCeTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 84.9 KBOct 16 17:57
Balrogmeh I wonder what kineOct 16 17:57
schestowitzMore cancer, more distractions, more surveillance, more costOct 16 17:57
Balrogkind *Oct 16 17:57
schestowitzBalrog: yes, that oneOct 16 17:58
BalrogI know that some of the leading forensics experts consider the BlackBerry to be very secureOct 16 17:58
schestowitzAlso, the shills fight the FTC right nowOct 16 17:58
DaemonFCBalrog, AT&T bought out Centennial and so I have to keep them til JuneOct 16 17:58
DaemonFCickOct 16 17:58
BalrogarghhOct 16 17:58
schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/10/16/key-perspectives-on-the-ftc-blogger-guidelinesOct 16 17:58
phIRCeTitle: Key Perspectives on the FTC Blogger Guidelines | WebProNews .::. Size~: 31.41 KBOct 16 17:58
Balrogwell I have no other choiceOct 16 17:58
DaemonFCthey have to honor my existing rates thoughOct 16 17:58
schestowitz"how dare they stop the shills?"Oct 16 17:58
Balrogverizon is $$$$$ and bad coverageOct 16 17:58
BalrogerrOct 16 17:58
Balrogbad customer serviceOct 16 17:58
Balrogt-mobile is HORRIBLE coverageOct 16 17:58
Balrogas is sprintOct 16 17:59
schestowitz"Executives from IBM and Intel were arrested today amid allegations they were involved in an insider trading scam." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/16/ibm_intel_insider_trading/Oct 16 17:59
phIRCeTitle: IBM, Intel execs arrested over alleged insider trading • The Register .::. Size~: 21.06 KBOct 16 17:59
schestowitzWhat about Microsoft?Oct 16 17:59
schestowitzThey forgot people like BachOct 16 18:00
schestowitzThey should consider arresting him tooOct 16 18:00
schestowitzHe got caughtOct 16 18:00
*koe (i=559d868c@gateway/web/freenode/x-mqyjszfllrjrflfm) has joined #boycottnovellOct 16 18:00
schestowitzHi, kecskebakOct 16 18:04
schestowitz*koeOct 16 18:04
kecskebakschestowitz: Hi!Oct 16 18:04
schestowitzwb, koe, do you want feedback on that submission?Oct 16 18:05
schestowitzkecskebak: thanks for the support. I had an auto-complete oopsie thereOct 16 18:05
kecskebakNo problem :)Oct 16 18:05
schestowitzkoe works on a long paper for the EC Com. to readOct 16 18:06
*Adus has quit ()Oct 16 18:06
schestowitz^^And Adus is a Microsoft UK employee Oct 16 18:06
koeHI all.Oct 16 18:06
koehttp://www.jukkarannila.fi/lausunnot.html#nro_17Oct 16 18:07
phIRCeTitle: Jukka Rannilan kotisivut .::. Size~: 31.62 KBOct 16 18:07
koeThere it is. The FIRST document, not the LONG documentOct 16 18:07
schestowitzEl Reg gave Pre a bad review: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/10/16/review_phone_palm_pre/Oct 16 18:07
phIRCeTitle: Palm Pre smartphone • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 21.09 KBOct 16 18:07
schestowitzI thought about buying a Pre when my Palm Tungsten diesOct 16 18:07
schestowitzToday: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/10/16/pre_launch_day/Oct 16 18:07
phIRCeTitle: Palm Pré arrives in Blighty • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 18.7 KBOct 16 18:08
koeThat first document is just my feedback for the first consultation of the Commission.Oct 16 18:08
schestowitz6 pdfsOct 16 18:09
koehttp://www.jukkarannila.fi/docs/Web_Edition_39.530_Opinion_Jukka_Rannila.pdfOct 16 18:09
phIRCeTitle: Not a web page! Aborting application/pdf type .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 16 18:09
koeThat is the Opinion.Oct 16 18:09
koeOne PDF.Oct 16 18:09
schestowitzAre you in the field of law?Oct 16 18:10
koeNO:Oct 16 18:10
schestowitzYou format it paragraophicallyOct 16 18:10
koeI am just a concerned citizen of Finland.Oct 16 18:10
schestowitz*paragraphically Oct 16 18:10
koeWell. I took two law courses in the university.Oct 16 18:11
schestowitzI see the screenshots nowOct 16 18:12
DaemonFCschestowitz: I'm still loving this AMD/ATI rigOct 16 18:12
DaemonFCIt works so much better than that Intel/Nvidia setupOct 16 18:12
schestowitzHeh. EU uses LateX :-)Oct 16 18:13
schestowitzI see the hyphenationOct 16 18:13
schestowitz*LaTeXOct 16 18:14
koeWell. I do not know anything of LateX.Oct 16 18:14
koeAnyway.Oct 16 18:15
*schestowitz looks at http://www.jukkarannila.fi/ODF_OOXML.htmlOct 16 18:15
phIRCeTitle: Jukka Rannilan kotisivut .::. Size~: 36.99 KBOct 16 18:15
schestowitzIt's mostly in FinnishOct 16 18:15
schestowitzI'll mail this to a friend of mine from there; he's into it tooOct 16 18:15
koeIf somebody wants to make a second opinion, I can help with writing.Oct 16 18:16
schestowitzkoe: it's hard yto editOct 16 18:16
schestowitzAnd laborious to do with static and no diffsOct 16 18:17
schestowitzI like history+diffs cause then no text is ever really lost, just passed aside to being optionalOct 16 18:17
koeWell. If there is interested persons, we can negotiate on editing measures.Oct 16 18:18
schestowitz"Oct 16 18:18
schestowitzLandmark ISP piracy case could kick thousands offlineOct 16 18:18
schestowitzA landmark Australian court case could see thousands of Australians losing their internet connection, and has major implications worldwide for the law on copyright.Oct 16 18:18
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/16/australian_court_isp_piracy/Oct 16 18:18
phIRCeTitle: Landmark ISP piracy case could kick thousands offline • The Register .::. Size~: 24.14 KBOct 16 18:18
schestowitz"Oct 16 18:18
schestowitzConfused message on UK broadbandOct 16 18:18
schestowitzFinland has made broadband a 'legal right', leading experts to question whether the UK government is similarly committed.Oct 16 18:18
schestowitzhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8311081.stmOct 16 18:18
phIRCeTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 84.9 KBOct 16 18:18
schestowitzkoe: I mailed another who looks into the same thing in FIOct 16 18:19
koeYou should also look, what they did in Sweden....Oct 16 18:20
koeWell. There is some time before 7 October, when to the Opinions should be in the Commission.Oct 16 18:21
schestowitzhttp://www.nuxified.org/blog/kde4-overtaking-gnome-terms-usabilityOct 16 18:22
phIRCeTitle: KDE4 overtaking GNOME in terms of usability? | Nuxified.org .::. Size~: 60.78 KBOct 16 18:22
schestowitzDaemonFC: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_juniper_scaling&num=1Oct 16 18:23
phIRCeTitle: [Phoronix] More AMD Radeon 5770 Linux Benchmarks .::. Size~: 19.08 KBOct 16 18:23
schestowitzkoe: what in Sweden?Oct 16 18:24
schestowitzOOXML fiasco?Oct 16 18:24
schestowitzFinland has its Microsoft fiascos tooOct 16 18:24
koeWell. According to my memory, the state was active in fibres, i.e. paying the cost of the major fibre installations.Oct 16 18:25
Diablo-D3you know what Im wondering?Oct 16 18:25
Diablo-D3why the 57xx are out alreadyOct 16 18:25
koeIn Sweden, not in FIN.Oct 16 18:25
Diablo-D3the 58xx just came outOct 16 18:25
schestowitzkoe: just for example: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:boycottnovell.com+finland&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-GBOct 16 18:25
phIRCeTitle: site:boycottnovell.com finland - Google Search .::. Size~: 24.28 KBOct 16 18:25
DaemonFCschestowitz: On the phone with a friend who was diagnosed BipolarOct 16 18:26
DaemonFCI told him to refuse the Symbyax the doc gave himOct 16 18:26
DaemonFCgo back and demand Lithium Carbonate or DepakoteOct 16 18:26
koeDont shooot me sending a Microsoft page link next.Oct 16 18:29
koehttp://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2009/oct09/10-07statement.mspxOct 16 18:29
phIRCeTitle: Statement: Microsoft Welcomes European Commission Market Testing Announcement: A statement by Brad Smith, General Counsel, Microsoft Corporation, regarding the European Commission’s decision to market test a set of measures Microsoft has offered to address competition law issues relating to Windows, Office and other high volume products. .::. Size~: 58.22 KBOct 16 18:29
koeI have been working on that Interoperability Commitment.Oct 16 18:30
schestowitzkoe: he also spoke to the CNET puppetOct 16 18:30
schestowitzIna FriedOct 16 18:30
schestowitzIIRCOct 16 18:30
schestowitzIt's all PROct 16 18:30
schestowitz Interoperability Commitment is more relevant to my work (and to FOSS)Oct 16 18:31
koeWell. Commission is gathering feedback about that Interoperability Commitment proposal.Oct 16 18:31
schestowitzBrowser case was brought forth by opera software (non-Free)Oct 16 18:31
schestowitzNetscape was also non-Free when Microsoft committed the crimes it's now being punished forOct 16 18:31
schestowitzThey shouldn't call it InteroperabilityOct 16 18:32
schestowitzThey should call it standardsOct 16 18:32
koeInteroperability Commitment is different issue.Oct 16 18:32
DaemonFCschestowitz: Nothing wrong with OperaOct 16 18:32
DaemonFCit conforms to web standardsOct 16 18:32
koeThan Opera case - I mean.Oct 16 18:32
schestowitzI wrote an article about this: http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/article.php/3714211Oct 16 18:32
phIRCeTitle: The Laws of Open Standards Broken by Interoperability &mdash; Datamation.com .::. Size~: 73.15 KBOct 16 18:32
DaemonFCFirefox has invented a lot of its own crap over the yearsOct 16 18:32
schestowitzDaemonFC: yes, but not the pointOct 16 18:33
schestowitzMicrosoft's fights against FOSS with patents, using the 'interop' BSOct 16 18:33
schestowitzThey should just implement standardsOct 16 18:33
schestowitzThen the whole patent nonsense no longer appliesOct 16 18:33
schestowitzDaemonFC: moz- selectors don't hinder accessOct 16 18:34
schestowitzNothing like ActiveXOct 16 18:34
DaemonFCstill, no reason to bag on OperaOct 16 18:34
cubezzza lot of the web is craptasicOct 16 18:35
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cubezzzflash itselfOct 16 18:36
cubezzzalthough firefox is a standard of a sortOct 16 18:37
koeI guess I made my point. Interested people can contact me by email.Oct 16 18:38
cubezzzMicrosoft tried to take over the web, and failed, but they successfully crapped it upOct 16 18:38
cubezzzI wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft tried to take over ISPsOct 16 18:39
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cubezzzdid Orcale take over SUN?Oct 16 18:42
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schestowitzkoe: I senr the links aroundOct 16 18:43
schestowitz*sentOct 16 18:43
schestowitzActually, I'll post it later as wellOct 16 18:43
schestowitzcubezzz: not yetOct 16 18:43
koeUse link: http://www.jukkarannila.fi/lausunnot.html#nro_17Oct 16 18:43
phIRCeTitle: Jukka Rannilan kotisivut .::. Size~: 31.62 KBOct 16 18:43
mrsteveman1MS did spend a lot of time focusing on MSN rather than the internet back in the 90sOct 16 18:43
koeThere will definetely be more Opinions about different things.Oct 16 18:44
mrsteveman1but so did AOLOct 16 18:44
koeSo. This was opinion no. 17.Oct 16 18:44
cubezzzMSN was actually an ISP?Oct 16 18:44
cubezzzor no?Oct 16 18:45
mrsteveman1they had dial-up numbers yesOct 16 18:45
schestowitzkoe: "stronly" > "strognly"Oct 16 18:45
koeTypos happen.Oct 16 18:45
mrsteveman1some of the MSN dial up numbers are still working tooOct 16 18:45
mrsteveman1i know people who still use itOct 16 18:46
koeI think I quit now, you got the links.Oct 16 18:46
koeBye.Oct 16 18:46
schestowitzta raOct 16 18:46
cubezzzso what do Mainframes use for browser?Oct 16 18:48
DaemonFChmmm, this new modem Comcast gave me is IPv6 compliantOct 16 18:48
*koe has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)Oct 16 18:49
cubezzzI guess they could port lynx? :)Oct 16 18:49
cubezzz64-bit mainframe for $40K usedOct 16 18:54
schestowitzmainframes with browsers?Oct 16 18:58
schestowitzThat's like having Windows 'Server' with SolitaireOct 16 18:58
mrsteveman1windows server does ship with solitaire doesn't it?Oct 16 19:00
cubezzz:)Oct 16 19:00
cubezzzI should try running solitaire at Chapters, they use Windows Server 2003Oct 16 19:01
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schestowitzmrsteveman1: I think it comes with WMPOct 16 19:07
schestowitzFor sysadmins to listen to music on their servers, maybe..... or for more buffer overflows :-DOct 16 19:08
mrsteveman1i remember when turning server 2003 into a workstation was all the rageOct 16 19:10
mrsteveman1there were packs available to reinstall all the stuff missingOct 16 19:10
mrsteveman1i don't remember what was missing thoughOct 16 19:11
cubezzzit's OKOct 16 19:11
cubezzzI don't use doze :-0Oct 16 19:11
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schestowitzWindows server is the bicycle of sysadminsOct 16 19:13
schestowitzThe adults use UNIX or LinuxOct 16 19:13
schestowitzThe motorcycleOct 16 19:13
schestowitzWindows is OK to test some stuff on, as PHP devs do (on their desktop)Oct 16 19:13
cubezzzany portable FOSS OS will do :)Oct 16 19:13
schestowitzBut 95% of them deploy on LinuxOct 16 19:13
mrsteveman1i can't imagine trying to run a php app on windowsOct 16 19:13
schestowitzLSE was tested on WindowsOct 16 19:13
schestowitzNot it's time for prime timeOct 16 19:14
mrsteveman1i use osx for local testing of php once in a whileOct 16 19:14
mrsteveman1but otherwise its easier to just setup another apache vhost somewhereOct 16 19:14
schestowitzSo they bought a company to replace the TechDirect (prototype)Oct 16 19:14
schestowitzsome people tried doing WordPress on WindowsOct 16 19:14
schestowitzAn online mate of mine tried and it kept crashingOct 16 19:15
schestowitzIt was funny for me to watchOct 16 19:15
schestowitzMade me feel proud of Linux in a selfish sort of wayOct 16 19:15
mrsteveman1yeaOct 16 19:16
mrsteveman1you guys may be interested in this http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/15/microsofts-pinkdanger-backup-problem-blamed-on-roz-ho/Oct 16 19:16
phIRCeTitle:   Microsofts Pink/Danger backup problem blamed on Roz Ho  RoughlyDrafted Magazine .::. Size~: 56.26 KBOct 16 19:16
cubezzzI've been bitching about windos the longest, I deserve a prize or somethingOct 16 19:16
cubezzzwindowsOct 16 19:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "...looking to recruit Glaswegian interpreters to help business clients who are baffled by the local dialect." http://ping.fm/28OHQOct 16 19:16
phIRCeTitle: BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Glasgow, Lanarkshire and West | Firm seeks Glaswegian interpreter .::. Size~: 51.96 KBOct 16 19:16
schestowitzmrsteveman1: I brought that same post up a couple of hours agoOct 16 19:20
mrsteveman1ahOct 16 19:20
schestowitzNews is slow toda, fortunatelyOct 16 19:20
schestowitzI haven't much to catch up with this weekendOct 16 19:20
schestowitzJust a contestOct 16 19:20
mutxunless they get "grounds keeper willie" as the interpreterOct 16 19:21
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sebsebsebhiOct 16 19:26
schestowitzAnother borrowed spokesperson for the RIAA: http://techdirt.com/articles/20091015/1836306554.shtmlOct 16 19:30
phIRCeTitle: Garth Brooks Complains That The Gov't Ignores Musicians | Techdirt .::. Size~: 65.33 KBOct 16 19:30
schestowitzFirst Lily, now Brooks? I'm running out of musicians to appreciate.Oct 16 19:30
schestowitz!google youtube lily cbs interviewOct 16 19:30
phIRCe[1] - YouTube - Lily Interview Part Two | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D7rgaPi5jZqIOct 16 19:30
phIRCe[2] - YouTube - Hispanic Lifestyle interview with Danny Pino of Cold ... | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DRsLEv-FEEhYOct 16 19:30
phIRCe[3] - Lily Allen desperate to interview Britain's Queen Elizabeth. at ... | http://www.theinsider.com/news/675855_Lily_Allen_desperate_to_interview_Britain_s_Queen_Elizabeth.Oct 16 19:30
phIRCe[4] - Top Cobie Smulders Videos | http://www.metacafe.com/tags/cobie_smulders/page-4/Oct 16 19:30
schestowitzShe's not so smart, IMHOOct 16 19:31
schestowitzBut they are victimsOct 16 19:31
schestowitzThey believe the fake numbers from the RIAAOct 16 19:32
cubezzz32GB compact flash cards, and it's sl-5500 compatibleOct 16 19:32
cubezzzmy first hard drive was 20 megs :)Oct 16 19:33
mrsteveman1ah kids, in my day we booted right to a 5.25" floppy and we were grateful for the privilege Oct 16 19:34
cubezzzmrsteveman1, I'm pre-5.25"Oct 16 19:34
cubezzzI have 8" Oct 16 19:34
mrsteveman1i've never seen one of thoseOct 16 19:34
mutxcassette interface, and "cload".Oct 16 19:35
cubezzzPlato system used those at CDC, back when there was a CDCOct 16 19:35
mrsteveman1i did have a sinclair Oct 16 19:35
cubezzzI don't remember cload, I remember load"blah",1Oct 16 19:36
mrsteveman1but not when they were released, probably 10 years laterOct 16 19:36
cubezzz32GB on a computer than fits in your pocket, that's SF levelOct 16 19:38
schestowitzhttp://www.kdenews.org/2009/10/15/linux-journal-reviews-kdenliveOct 16 19:38
phIRCeTitle: Linux Journal Reviews Kdenlive | KDE.news .::. Size~: 9.98 KBOct 16 19:39
*schestowitz unable to grasp Kdenlive UI within minutes of tryingOct 16 19:39
schestowitzCouldn't clip a subsection of a video for exampleOct 16 19:39
cubezzzschestowitz, I never got to see your interviewOct 16 19:44
mutxu can download itOct 16 19:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] A MUST watch: http://bit.ly/3OSDV8Oct 16 19:47
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - A Catholic TV asked Yusuf Estes  Why he Converted to Islam .::. Size~: 115.25 KBOct 16 19:47
Balrogheh, that data loss bug in Mac OS X will be fixed in the next point release. Still it shouldn't happen, but I don't know anyone who uses guest accountsOct 16 19:51
Balrogyou know, I should install kde on this ubuntu systemOct 16 19:51
Omar87It seems ThePirateBay is dead.Oct 16 19:54
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Omar87I just don't understand, of all the torrent websites on Earth, why did they punish ThePirateBay in particular??Oct 16 19:56
sebsebsebOmar87: ,because it is/was the most used?Oct 16 19:57
trmancoI wonder if skype for ubuntu puts on any trash into the systemOct 16 19:58
trmancolike update processes or something like that, anybody have a clue?Oct 16 19:58
schestowitzMatt Aslett defends "open core" *Sigh* http://openbookonbi.blogspot.com/2009/03/building-on-success-of-open-core-guest.htmlOct 16 20:01
phIRCeTitle: The Open Book on BI: Building on the Success of Open Core, guest post by Matt Aslett .::. Size~: 123.21 KBOct 16 20:01
schestowitzHe posts this in a  blog that looks to justify the modelOct 16 20:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Man! #LiveLeak is pretty good! Too bad it doesn't offer #OGG as a conversion format option though.Oct 16 20:04
schestowitzhttp://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/10/15/couchdb-dev-unwittingly-gives-ubuntu-users-cloud-based-nightmare/Oct 16 20:07
phIRCeTitle: CouchDB dev unwittingly gives Ubuntu users cloud-based nightmares .::. Size~: 73.4 KBOct 16 20:07
schestowitzAh... that picture again: http://www.examiner.com/x-9438-SF-Business-Tech-Examiner~y2009m10d15-Snow-Leopard-and-Windows-7-battleOct 16 20:10
phIRCeTitle: SF Business Tech Examiner  .::. Size~: 70.01 KBOct 16 20:10
schestowitz"Incidentally, I'm neither Mac nor PC. I'm Ubuntu."  http://www.dailygamecock.com/viewpoints/tete-a-tete-pcs-superior-1.778954Oct 16 20:11
phIRCeTitle: The Daily Gamecock - Tete a tete: PCs superior .::. Size~: 55.97 KBOct 16 20:12
schestowitzMakes me wonderOct 16 20:12
schestowitzI could make up for this poor one by making more audio that's properOct 16 20:13
schestowitzOne thought I had was shortly audio to go with daily links and summarise key pointsOct 16 20:13
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schestowitz*ShortOct 16 20:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Alguem consegue advinhar o país em que o preço da Gasolina por litro está a ¢92 ??Oct 16 20:15
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MinceRBalrog: i think that article overcomplicates things in an attempt to defend the existence of creator codesOct 16 20:25
MinceRi'm not even sure if the preferred app really belongs thereOct 16 20:25
schestowitzBTW, I paste a lot in #boycottnovell-sociaklOct 16 20:26
MinceRa preference-ordered MIME type list should be sufficientOct 16 20:26
schestowitzThus the aboveOct 16 20:26
schestowitzFreenode doesn't like many linesOct 16 20:26
MinceRschestowitz: you could try using a pastebin or rate-limiting yourselfOct 16 20:26
schestowitz#boycottnovell-social I meanOct 16 20:26
schestowitzMinceR: I suppose I could.Oct 16 20:26
DaemonFCschestowitz: Pravastatin on Tuesday is what they may put me onOct 16 20:38
DaemonFCmy friend is the lab tech there and told me my cholesterol was too highOct 16 20:38
DaemonFC:POct 16 20:38
schestowitzI just spoke about you somewhereOct 16 20:38
schestowitzRegarding health careOct 16 20:38
DaemonFCI tried giving the rabbit food a try a while back and it didn't lower it enoughOct 16 20:39
schestowitzRabbit food is bad qualityOct 16 20:39
schestowitzWhy would you touch the thing?Oct 16 20:39
schestowitzDon't tell me you share a bowl of food with your kittyOct 16 20:39
DaemonFCno, I meant vegetarian dietOct 16 20:40
DaemonFCtried to get my cholesterol under control with thatOct 16 20:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Lockheed Snags $31 Million To Reinvent the Internet, Microsoft To Help - Some never learn http://tinyurl.com/ykq6fzzOct 16 20:40
phIRCeTitle: Slashdot Technology Story | Lockheed Snags $31 Million To Reinvent the Internet, Microsoft To Help .::. Size~: 142.22 KBOct 16 20:40
DaemonFClost some weight but the cholesterol barely went down at allOct 16 20:40
schestowitzAh./Oct 16 20:43
schestowitzI don't know vegan terminology so wellOct 16 20:43
schestowitz"Rabbit food"Oct 16 20:43
DaemonFCthey basically don't know where the seizures came from, so they're trying to help me eliminate as many possible contributing factors as they canOct 16 20:43
DaemonFCthe blood pressure was way out of controlOct 16 20:43
DaemonFCI call it rabbit foodOct 16 20:43
DaemonFCpejorative termOct 16 20:43
schestowitzMost animals are vegans I thinkOct 16 20:43
DaemonFCcan't live on that shitOct 16 20:44
schestowitzBut we all digest small organism at some level, so......Oct 16 20:44
DaemonFCalmost every vegan I've seen gets discolored and rail thinOct 16 20:44
schestowitzI guess all mastication of lethal to /some/ "life"Oct 16 20:44
DaemonFClooks like a stiff breeze could knock them overOct 16 20:44
schestowitzThat's derogatoryOct 16 20:44
schestowitzNo need for that remarkOct 16 20:44
DaemonFCit's also trueOct 16 20:45
DaemonFCI don't feel like being 50 pounds underweight and paleOct 16 20:45
schestowitzBetter than deadOct 16 20:45
DaemonFCI don't know if it's just because they're lacking a proper dietOct 16 20:45
DaemonFCor because it's so disgusting that they have to force themselves to eatOct 16 20:45
schestowitzhttp://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/10/15/couchdb-dev-unwittingly-gives-ubuntu-users-cloud-based-nightmare/Oct 16 20:46
phIRCeTitle: CouchDB dev unwittingly gives Ubuntu users cloud-based nightmares .::. Size~: 73.54 KBOct 16 20:46
DaemonFCthey're just on another end of an extremeOct 16 20:46
schestowitzI could be over 100kg had there not been this competition that's endurance-basedOct 16 20:46
DaemonFCvarious nutrient deficienciesOct 16 20:46
DaemonFClike B12 especiallyOct 16 20:46
schestowitzI can't afford to not be slim(ish)Oct 16 20:47
schestowitzThe US is getting heavierOct 16 20:47
DaemonFCmeh, I have a fast metabolism anywayOct 16 20:47
schestowitzMaybe the depression will have an effect on this (less eating)Oct 16 20:47
DaemonFCI lose about 5 pounds a week at 2000 Calories a dayOct 16 20:47
schestowitzThe fat cats will carry on getting fatter, that's for sureOct 16 20:47
schestowitzAnyway, let's not talk diets. It's OTOct 16 20:48
DaemonFCactually, people get fatter in a recessionOct 16 20:48
DaemonFCyou notice how many poor fat people are in Walmart all the time?Oct 16 20:48
DaemonFCcause the government funds the empty calorie food they pig out onOct 16 20:49
DaemonFCthis in turn frees up a few hundred dollars a month that they can buy cigarettes withOct 16 20:50
DaemonFC:DOct 16 20:50
DaemonFConce they have enough health problems brought on by awful diet and chain smoking, they get on medicaid and medicare and leech some moreOct 16 20:51
schestowitzhttp://www.tuxmachines.org/node/40388Oct 16 20:52
phIRCeTitle: Top 10 Things I HATE about KDE 4 | tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 36.77 KBOct 16 20:52
DaemonFCwelfare works out to be a government funded vicious cycle that most directly benefits junk food makers, cigarette companies, and pharmaceutical industryOct 16 20:52
schestowitzShe's right about this:Oct 16 20:52
schestowitz"9. Dual monitor separation - What I mean by that is on dual display systems, one has to configure each monitor/display/half of the desktop separately. And it also means that the panel can't stretch out over the two displays, move from one to the other, and you can't move icons from one to the other."Oct 16 20:52
schestowitzI have this bit of an 'issue' tooOct 16 20:52
schestowitzBut I like itOct 16 20:52
schestowitzI can run each desktop independently with slideshowOct 16 20:52
schestowitzIt's a bit of a pro, not a conOct 16 20:52
schestowitzOnce you get used to the fact of having TWO independent wallpapersOct 16 20:53
DaemonFCwhy do you think we have food stamps, SSI income, and Medicare/Medicaid?Oct 16 20:53
DaemonFCcorporate lobbyists always want more of thatOct 16 20:53
schestowitzDaemonFC: let's get off healthOct 16 20:53
DaemonFCas long as the government buys their stuff at full retail price, they love government welfareOct 16 20:53
schestowitzIt's adding off-topic signal/noise to the channelOct 16 20:53
DaemonFCone more fun fact then I'll knock it off, food stamps DON'T buy anything organically grownOct 16 20:54
DaemonFCthey do buy candy bars, sugary soft drinks, TV dinners with no nutritional value, bubble gum....Oct 16 20:58
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MikeyCHey Roy I just did 165!Oct 16 20:59
schestowitzhttp://www.itnewstoday.com/?p=1032Oct 16 20:59
schestowitzWhy the hostility towards KDE?Oct 16 21:00
schestowitzMikeyC: damn youOct 16 21:00
phIRCeTitle:   Is Kubuntu Caught in a Downward Spiral? : IT News Today .::. Size~: 90.09 KBOct 16 21:00
schestowitzYou're now tying my all-time best :-pOct 16 21:00
MikeyCNot really:) only jokingOct 16 21:00
schestowitzPhewOct 16 21:00
schestowitzI could benchpress 160kg on Sunday\Oct 16 21:00
MikeyCIf you're all time best is 165 i wanna go for itOct 16 21:00
schestowitzI was close to it today, but was still sore from yesterday's workoutOct 16 21:00
MikeyCits a good targetOct 16 21:00
MikeyCme too i need to recover and come sundayOct 16 21:01
MikeyCit will be goodOct 16 21:01
schestowitzJoe was supervising it at the timeOct 16 21:01
schestowitzWhat time?Oct 16 21:01
MikeyCi will be in around 10Oct 16 21:01
MikeyCyou fancy meeting upOct 16 21:01
schestowitzToo earlyOct 16 21:01
schestowitzI only wake up around 10 in recent daysOct 16 21:02
schestowitzLagOct 16 21:02
MikeyCyou need a nextra afternoon of protein!Oct 16 21:02
MikeyCi reckon we could both go 170!Oct 16 21:02
schestowitzMikeyC: have a look at http://odtv.me/2009/10/floss-91/ . You'll see it ain't me...Oct 16 21:02
phIRCeTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 16 21:02
schestowitzThey turned it to awful grillingOct 16 21:02
MikeyClink doesnt workOct 16 21:03
schestowitzAh.Oct 16 21:03
*Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?")Oct 16 21:03
schestowitzhttp://odtv.me/2009/10/macbreak-weekly-162/Oct 16 21:03
phIRCeTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 16 21:03
schestowitzThey have blog issueOct 16 21:04
schestowitzIt's temporarily brokenOct 16 21:04
schestowitzNever mind thatOct 16 21:04
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovellOct 16 21:04
schestowitzThere's an audio-only versionOct 16 21:04
MikeyCok, but i will be eating sunday so try get to the gym early doorsOct 16 21:04
schestowitzMikeyC: http://www.twit.tv/floss91Oct 16 21:04
phIRCeTitle: The TWiT Netcast Network with Leo Laporte .::. Size~: 22.72 KBOct 16 21:04
schestowitzYou'll see it sounds awful. You know I'm a lot more coherent in person.Oct 16 21:05
schestowitzA friend of mine made an analogyOct 16 21:05
schestowitz"What is this site, who are the two interviewers. Notice they paint you with the 'controversy' label. It's like the atheist v true-believers"Oct 16 21:06
MikeyCi am downloading it now, you better be good royston!Oct 16 21:06
MikeyChere goes you are live on stage at fortress Mr Fitness!Oct 16 21:06
schestowitz"Rather than address the issue they abuse the non-believers and use the response as evidence as to their extremism. Notice they spend a lot of time addressing personalities. That's what you get for making personal remarks."Oct 16 21:07
trmancohttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1076770Oct 16 21:07
phIRCeTitle: [ubuntu] Logitech QuickCam - Ubuntu Forums .::. Size~: 66.84 KBOct 16 21:07
trmancoI'm not the only oneOct 16 21:07
schestowitzMikeyC: no, not this yearOct 16 21:07
schestowitzI'm not in good share or even motivated to trainOct 16 21:07
schestowitz /s/share/shape/Oct 16 21:07
trmancohttp://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=7087422&postcount=4Oct 16 21:07
phIRCeTitle: Ubuntu Forums - View Single Post - [ubuntu] Logitech QuickCam .::. Size~: 8.37 KBOct 16 21:07
trmancovery helpfulOct 16 21:08
schestowitzMikeyC: I couldn't even win the situps with 108 in 2 minutesOct 16 21:08
MikeyCi cant hear you yet, when do you come on?Oct 16 21:08
schestowitzANd I lost the rowing tooOct 16 21:08
schestowitzI don't care enough to want to win anymoreOct 16 21:08
schestowitzMikeyC: it's terrible, you'll see. They made me extremely uncomfortable.Oct 16 21:09
trmancoit's a problem with vl4lOct 16 21:09
trmancov4l2*Oct 16 21:09
schestowitzhttp://gnuski.blogspot.com/2009/10/open-request-to-rename-ubuntu-package.htmlOct 16 21:10
phIRCeTitle: lefty.crupps' GNUski bacon: An open request to rename Ubuntu package formats .::. Size~: 25.56 KBOct 16 21:10
MikeyCdont be so soft, you are well thought of, you have at least 15 years of elite in front of you, you are just a little demotivated from your first taste of lossOct 16 21:10
schestowitzhttp://desktoplinux.wordpress.com/2009/10/15/ubuntu-wins/Oct 16 21:11
phIRCeTitle: Ubuntu Wins! « On Becoming a Penguin .::. Size~: 29.91 KBOct 16 21:11
schestowitzMikeyC: nopeOct 16 21:11
schestowitzI've done enoughOct 16 21:11
schestowitzAs I get older I won't be able to keep up physically, so I'll move on to other thingsOct 16 21:11
MikeyCyou could try paintingOct 16 21:12
schestowitzMikeyC: look at DaemonFC hereOct 16 21:12
schestowitzHe had two seizures a while agoOct 16 21:12
schestowitzMikeyC: I did as a kidOct 16 21:12
MikeyCno linkOct 16 21:12
schestowitzNone?Oct 16 21:12
MikeyCYour voice isn't picked up fully by the micOct 16 21:13
DaemonFCI'm really thinking my blood pressure triggered themOct 16 21:13
DaemonFCthey can't give me any better reason than that, so it's what I'll go with I guessOct 16 21:13
DaemonFCspeaking of which, time for a zestril tablet :POct 16 21:14
MikeyCapparently having you on the show was "very controversial" and they described the site as a "hate site", these are very cheap shots, they came off worse, to me at least.Oct 16 21:15
schestowitzExactlyOct 16 21:17
schestowitzBut I knew this coming in. He brought me in to play this angleOct 16 21:17
schestowitzOct 16 21:17
schestowitz[21:13] <MikeyC> Your voice isn't picked up fully by the micOct 16 21:17
schestowitzWhat do you mean?Oct 16 21:17
MikeyCduring the interviewOct 16 21:18
schestowitzhttp://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/10/gnome-do-docky-no-longer-part-of-gnome.htmlOct 16 21:19
phIRCeTitle: OMG! UBUNTU!: Gnome-Do Docky To Become Separate Application .::. Size~: 162.73 KBOct 16 21:19
MikeyCto me you sound better informed than the interviewers, they just keep resorting to cheap smear quotes periodically.Oct 16 21:19
schestowitzBut that's not my point thoughOct 16 21:19
schestowitzBy making the guest uncomfortable they make it harder for him/her to speak clearly and make coherent argumentsOct 16 21:20
MikeyCjust overviewing the vibe, we can do the message soon enoughOct 16 21:20
schestowitzAnd it was a messOct 16 21:20
schestowitzMikeyC: shows I get invited to are always like thatOct 16 21:20
MikeyCthat's what i guess being tough is about, being able to talk over all the cheap shots and not get flusteredOct 16 21:21
schestowitzNaturallyOct 16 21:21
schestowitzLet me show you something... hold on.Oct 16 21:21
schestowitzFound itOct 16 21:22
schestowitzWatch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E01VPsdozSo&feature=PlayList&p=63E1BAAA260A3183&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=38Oct 16 21:22
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - todd friel interviews christopher hitchens on "wretched radio" (full interview) - part 2 .::. Size~: 162.21 KBOct 16 21:22
schestowitzThey put a bad picture of him and take the s* out of him on the airOct 16 21:22
schestowitzYet he doesn't hang upOct 16 21:22
schestowitzBut it's a good example of daemonisation Fox-styleOct 16 21:23
schestowitzAnd this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrfPMa3lONUOct 16 21:23
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Classic Bill O'Reilly - Loses it on Barney Frank .::. Size~: 184.68 KBOct 16 21:23
DaemonFCI just got off the phone with the doctor, she said she'd prescribe Lovastatin instead of Pravastatin if I'd pay for the prescription (they don't have it on hand)Oct 16 21:24
DaemonFCthat's good to knowOct 16 21:24
schestowitzhttp://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/10/random-gnome-games-news-tips-and-tweaks.htmlOct 16 21:24
phIRCeTitle: OMG! UBUNTU!: Random Gnome-Games News, Tips and Tweaks. .::. Size~: 160.2 KBOct 16 21:24
schestowitzDaemonFC: is it on your insurance?Oct 16 21:24
DaemonFCPravastatin has potential kidney and liver related side effects, Lovastatin has almsot no side effectsOct 16 21:25
schestowitz!google if you are not health die quicklyOct 16 21:25
DaemonFCschestowitz: Lovastatin is a $4 /month genericOct 16 21:25
schestowitzphIRCe: test http://test.comOct 16 21:25
phIRCeTitle: Test.com Web Based Testing and Certification Software v2.0 .::. Size~: 28.25 KBOct 16 21:25
schestowitz!google if you are not healthy die quicklyOct 16 21:25
phIRCe[1] - Alan Grayson "Die Quickly" Comment Prompts Uproar - Political ... | http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/30/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5353632.shtmlOct 16 21:25
phIRCe[2] - Alan Grayson: Republicans Want Sick People To Die Quickly (VIDEO) | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/30/alan-grayson-republicans_n_303996.htmlOct 16 21:25
phIRCe[3] - Don't get sick and die quickly! | Trusted.MD Network | http://trusted.md/blog/marc/2009/10/01/dont_get_sick_and_die_quicklyOct 16 21:25
phIRCe[4] - Grayson: GOP health care plan is 'Die Quickly' | http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2009/09/grayson-says-gop-health-care-plan-is-dont-get-sick-or-die-quickly.htmlOct 16 21:25
DaemonFCthat's at Walmart, but Owens and Walgreens are matching that listOct 16 21:25
schestowitzhttp://bytesandsuch.com/2009/10/ubuntu-bittorrent-issues/Oct 16 21:27
phIRCeTitle: Ubuntu Bittorrent Issues | bytesandsuch.com .::. Size~: 27.69 KBOct 16 21:27
schestowitzhttp://beginlinux.com/blog/2009/10/ubuntu-9-10-ufw-firewall/Oct 16 21:29
phIRCeTitle: Ubuntu 9.10 UFW Firewall | BeginLinux .::. Size~: 31.83 KBOct 16 21:29
schestowitzInteresting stuff in BuntulandOct 16 21:29
DaemonFCschestowitz: The one good thing I can say about Walmart is that $4 listOct 16 21:30
trmancodamnOct 16 21:30
trmancocamstream now worksOct 16 21:30
DaemonFCbefore that happened everythin on that list was $10-60 for a 30 day supplyOct 16 21:31
trmancougly hack, but I think I got my webcam working with everthing nowOct 16 21:31
DaemonFCadds up fast, I'd rather pay $12 a month for my three prescriptions than $100Oct 16 21:31
DaemonFC:)Oct 16 21:31
trmancoit works :DOct 16 21:33
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schestowitzCastro leaves Mandriva: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4082Oct 16 21:35
phIRCeTitle: So far, so long, thanks for all the fish... | kdedevelopers.org .::. Size~: 14.67 KBOct 16 21:35
schestowitztrmanco: maybe I should sort out a Web cam too. My mic is also a crappy (Cheapo) one that makes me sound oddOct 16 21:36
trmancohahaOct 16 21:37
trmancoman I love linuxOct 16 21:37
trmancopiece of cakeOct 16 21:37
schestowitzLINA is back!! http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS93947+15-Oct-2009+PRN20091015Oct 16 21:37
trmancomy webcam no worksOct 16 21:37
trmancoeverywhereOct 16 21:37
schestowitzno works?Oct 16 21:37
schestowitzNo?Oct 16 21:37
trmanconow*Oct 16 21:37
schestowitz:-)Oct 16 21:38
trmancosorryOct 16 21:38
trmancoI love this osOct 16 21:38
trmanco:DOct 16 21:38
schestowitzNo works. Is nice!Oct 16 21:38
*MikeyC has quit ("Page closed")Oct 16 21:38
trmancothe problem was that most of the apps still use v4l1Oct 16 21:38
trmancoand ubuntu only had v4l2 installed so everything was trying to use thatOct 16 21:39
trmancoI installed the v4l1 lib and made a preload -> bash -c 'LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib/libv4l/v4l1compat.so firefox'Oct 16 21:39
trmancoit now works :DOct 16 21:39
schestowitzhttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/28574/1141/Oct 16 21:55
trmancohttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/28574/1141/Oct 16 22:03
trmanco:|Oct 16 22:03
schestowitzYeah, odd oneOct 16 22:08
schestowitzhappened earlier too with !google usesOct 16 22:08
trmancohttp://itwire.comOct 16 22:10
trmancothey are blocking meOct 16 22:10
trmanco!google itwireOct 16 22:10
phIRCe[1] - iTWire | http://www.itwire.com/Oct 16 22:10
phIRCe[2] - iTWire - Microsoft urges Nokia to offer Windows Mobile devices | http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16510/127/Oct 16 22:10
phIRCe[3] - www.Itwire.com - Itwire | http://www.ip-adress.com/whois/www.itwire.comOct 16 22:10
phIRCe[4] - iTWire - Tech News (iTWire) on Twitter | http://twitter.com/ITwireOct 16 22:10
*sebsebseb has quit (Remote closed the connection)Oct 16 22:14
*DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))Oct 16 22:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Watching re-runs of Doctor Who downloaded off iPlayer on the revo.. timing how long before it locks upOct 16 22:17
*Omar87 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Oct 16 22:18
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schestowitzLet's see some newsOct 16 22:26
sebsebsebschestowitz: Apparantly Channel 4 shows  are going to be free on Youtube, because they made a dealOct 16 22:27
sebsebsebGoogle and  Channel Four or somethingOct 16 22:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Boycott Novell on TWiT TV (as Ogg) http://ping.fm/ug9XhOct 16 22:28
phIRCeTitle: Boycott Novell on TWiT TV (as Ogg) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 96.46 KBOct 16 22:28
voltronwyou guys have flash installed?Oct 16 22:31
MinceRi doOct 16 22:31
MinceRi hate it, but sadly a lot of the web is infected with itOct 16 22:31
MinceRalso carefully engineered so that it won't work with swfdec or gnashOct 16 22:32
voltronwcontent authors are specifically engineering their code to not work with gnash? citation?Oct 16 22:33
MinceRjust kidding -- where there's flash, there's no engineering. :>Oct 16 22:33
MinceRit's a disease.Oct 16 22:33
voltronwi'm sure there's plenty of well engineered flash code out thereOct 16 22:35
voltronwand plenty of poorly engineered flash code out thereOct 16 22:35
voltronwjust like everything elseOct 16 22:35
*_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellOct 16 22:35
_goblinbonjourOct 16 22:35
schestowitzsebsebseb: yesOct 16 22:36
schestowitzIt's good news thoughOct 16 22:36
schestowitzYou knows why? :-)Oct 16 22:36
sebsebsebschestowitz: no?Oct 16 22:36
schestowitzCause they used to be with Silver LieOct 16 22:36
_goblinwho's this?Oct 16 22:36
sebsebsebwhat's that?Oct 16 22:36
schestowitzVery Windows-onlyOct 16 22:36
schestowitzCh4Oct 16 22:36
_goblinahOct 16 22:36
schestowitzSilverblight/SilverfishOct 16 22:36
_goblinmakes sense since ITV have dumped it.Oct 16 22:36
schestowitzYesOct 16 22:36
_goblinsilversh*teOct 16 22:36
sebsebseb_goblin: what's that?Oct 16 22:36
schestowitzThey join the 'freetards' :-)Oct 16 22:37
MinceRthere's no good reason to infect a website with flashOct 16 22:37
schestowitzYouTubeOct 16 22:37
schestowitztrmanco: thanks for transcodingOct 16 22:37
sebsebsebyeah  Google should embrace HTML 5's video tag with OGG :)Oct 16 22:37
trmancoyou're welcomeOct 16 22:37
voltronwMinceR: how would you deliver a website that needs interactive content or video?Oct 16 22:37
schestowitzback in a moment. Lookin' at news..Oct 16 22:37
sebsebseband make it clear to users they need a browser such as Firefox to support itOct 16 22:37
MinceRvoltronw: for interactive content (which is usually overrated), there's html forms and javascript; for video, my preferred method is linking to a video fileOct 16 22:38
MinceRbut you could use embed, object or the new video element.Oct 16 22:38
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MinceRvideo plugins tend to be a lot more flexible than flashOct 16 22:38
MinceRand perform betterOct 16 22:38
MinceRand they get new codecs before flash doesOct 16 22:39
voltronwso i have to download a plugin to see your website?Oct 16 22:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Patent lawyers hates the subject matter criteria, push for business method patents and software patents: http://i5.be/OTOct 16 22:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Join us -> http://tinychat.com/ladyOct 16 22:39
phIRCeTitle: Intellectual Property Watch  » Blog Archive   » How The Machine-or-Transformation Test In Bilski Is Failing .::. Size~: 59.82 KBOct 16 22:39
phIRCeTitle: Tinychat .::. Size~: 7.06 KBOct 16 22:39
MinceRvoltronw: do you know what flash is?Oct 16 22:40
voltronwyes, a plugin that almost everyone with a web browser already has installedOct 16 22:40
MinceRso, you have to download a plugin anyway.Oct 16 22:41
voltronwno you don'tOct 16 22:41
voltronwbecause everyone already hasOct 16 22:42
MinceRno, not everyoneOct 16 22:42
MinceRfor example, my netbook doesn't have flash installed yet. :>Oct 16 22:42
oiaohmReally I want to see flash die.Oct 16 22:42
voltronwMinceR: http://www.adrianblog.com/web-development/flash-player-installed-on-987-percent-of-online-computers.htmlOct 16 22:42
phIRCeTitle: Flash Player installed on 98.7 percent of online computers .::. Size~: 23.81 KBOct 16 22:42
MinceRvoltronw: something being widespread doesn't make it right.Oct 16 22:43
oiaohmvoltronw: that does not count phones.Oct 16 22:43
MinceRvoltronw: also, we get it, you love flash. not everyone does, though.Oct 16 22:43
oiaohmThere are a lot of items not licenced to contain flash.Oct 16 22:43
voltronwi don't love flash, i hate flash. i don't even have it installedOct 16 22:43
MinceRthen we do you keep telling us it's so great?Oct 16 22:44
oiaohmwebgl and the video tags cover most of what flash does without needing to leave a html standard.Oct 16 22:44
oiaohmJust both are not largely deployed yet.Oct 16 22:44
MinceR(btw, even in the (in my opinion, pointless) embedded video case, you can include a direct link anyway)Oct 16 22:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mainstream Indian Press: #Linux Rising http://www.expresscomputeronline.com/20091019/market01.shtmlOct 16 22:44
phIRCeTitle: Linux rising - Express Computer .::. Size~: 30.43 KBOct 16 22:44
MinceRmost of what flash does does not belong on the web.Oct 16 22:44
voltronwwhere did i say it's great? the point i'm trying to make is that people who deliver content have to consider installed user base. until there are alternatives, flash will be the obvious choice.Oct 16 22:45
oiaohmThere is alterentive voltronwOct 16 22:45
MinceRit should be a useful hypertext resource, not a shiny toy intended to induce drooling -- while it takes massive amounts of CPU and memory.Oct 16 22:45
oiaohmJust means picking on IE users.Oct 16 22:45
oiaohmAnd tell them to install the chrome extention to IE.Oct 16 22:45
oiaohmSo html5 video tags work.Oct 16 22:45
MinceRvoltronw: it's the obvious wrong choice, yes. it still isn't suited to streaming video and it never will be.Oct 16 22:45
voltronwMinceR: great, when you're crowned king of the internet you can dictate what web pages should be, until then, the real world will continue to function.Oct 16 22:46
oiaohmAll other upto date web browsers support html 5 voltronwOct 16 22:46
oiaohmIncluding phones.Oct 16 22:46
MinceRno, what the real world does is hardly "functioning"Oct 16 22:46
oiaohmSo if you want 100 percent market coverage its html5 not flash.Oct 16 22:46
*Balrog_ (n=Balrog@pool-71-255-103-204.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovellOct 16 22:46
voltronwoiaohm: i'd love to see html5 displace flashOct 16 22:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Has an Unusual Big User: Microsoft http://ur1.ca/drpaOct 16 22:46
phIRCeTitle: Is it ethical for Microsoft to offer online services? A Review | Tech Blog .::. Size~: 40.76 KBOct 16 22:46
oiaohmwebgl displaces flash out games.Oct 16 22:47
oiaohmWithout games and videos what does flash have.Oct 16 22:47
MinceRvoltronw: and no matter how obnoxious you are, flash still plays videos slowly, has a limited selection of codecs, is difficult to resize or make fullscreen and it makes videos difficult to download.Oct 16 22:47
MinceRalso, i suspect that the formats and codecs it prefers includes patent-encumbered ones.Oct 16 22:48
voltronwMinceR: dude how am i being obnoxious? i'm advocating for open standards and presenting data. you're running proprietary code and making up0 conspiracies about people designing things not to work in gnash.Oct 16 22:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Home Automation and Why It's Better off Done with #Linux http://bit.ly/uCKZXOct 16 22:48
voltronwMinceR: and dictating what the web should or shouldn't beOct 16 22:49
MinceRvoltronw: where are you advocating open standards, exactly?Oct 16 22:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Already Wins in Many Fields: Evidence http://bit.ly/4thLKGOct 16 22:49
MinceRvoltronw: are you trying to imply that flash is an open standard, perhaps?Oct 16 22:49
phIRCeTitle: ur1 Generator .::. Size~: 2.27 KBOct 16 22:49
voltronwMinceR: voltronw: oiaohm: i'd love to see html5 displace flashOct 16 22:50
oiaohmIt already is voltronwOct 16 22:50
oiaohmLot of the major video provide sites like youtube have html5 interfaces.Oct 16 22:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LINA 1.0 is Here! (as Beta) http://bit.ly/4tPBGNOct 16 22:50
MinceRwhat makes LINA so important?Oct 16 22:51
schestowitzSee detailsOct 16 22:52
schestowitzhttp://dailyapps.net/2008/03/hack-attack-run-linux-apps-natively-on-windows-osx/Oct 16 22:53
schestowitzhttp://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/03/23/lina-run-linux-aps-on-windows-or-os-x-or-at-least-one-linux-ap/Oct 16 22:53
phIRCeTitle: Hack Attack : Run Linux Apps Natively On Windows, OSX | dailyApps .::. Size~: 26.77 KBOct 16 22:53
phIRCeTitle: Lina: Run Linux aps on Windows or OS X, or at least one Linux app .::. Size~: 75.04 KBOct 16 22:53
schestowitzhttp://openlina.org/news.html Oct 16 22:53
phIRCeTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 16 22:53
schestowitzhttp://www.libervis.com/article/lina_like_java_but_differentOct 16 22:53
phIRCeTitle: LINA: like Java, but different | Libervis.com .::. Size~: 18.41 KBOct 16 22:53
schestowitzVideo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGiIkceewRAOct 16 22:53
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - The LINA Home Movie .::. Size~: 138.09 KBOct 16 22:53
schestowitzhttp://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/05/27/run-linux-apps-on-windows-or-os-x-with-lina/Oct 16 22:53
phIRCeTitle: Run Linux apps on Windows or OS X with Lina .::. Size~: 101 KBOct 16 22:53
MinceRlinux apps should be ran on linuxOct 16 22:53
schestowitzHomepage: http://www.openlina.com/Oct 16 22:53
MinceRjust like everything else.Oct 16 22:53
oiaohmMinceR:  is more users numbers.Oct 16 22:53
schestowitzMinceR: build once, run everywhereOct 16 22:53
oiaohmLina is also about stoping people bothing coding for windows.Oct 16 22:53
MinceRit cuts both ways.Oct 16 22:54
schestowitzSo devs won't get distracted by bobinariesOct 16 22:54
schestowitzoiaohm: exactlyOct 16 22:54
schestowitzIt's like wine for Windows!!Oct 16 22:54
schestowitzJust build for LinuxOct 16 22:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Is it ethical for Microsoft to offer online services? A Review | Tech Blog - Brilliant! http://tinyurl.com/yloufzrOct 16 22:54
schestowitzThe Windows folks can just use LINA to dream as though they have Linux ;-)Oct 16 22:54
phIRCeTitle: Is it ethical for Microsoft to offer online services? A Review | Tech Blog .::. Size~: 40.76 KBOct 16 22:54
oiaohmKDE is also running on windows more and more.   It the user count issue.  More users better feed back on features.Oct 16 22:55
oiaohmBasically to take out MS we have to displace the apps that keep people using it.Oct 16 22:55
oiaohmkontact is a good replacement to outlook.   kolab server is a good replacement to exchange and so on.Oct 16 22:56
trmancokontact is greatOct 16 22:56
oiaohmkontact just need to run on windows so outlook can be displaced.Oct 16 22:56
oiaohmOnce outlook is displaced there is one less problem to migration.Oct 16 22:57
voltronwtrmanco: can kontact connect to exchange servers?Oct 16 22:57
oiaohmNot perfectly voltronwOct 16 22:57
trmancoexchage is a closed "app"Oct 16 22:57
oiaohmMS keeps on changing sections of the exchange server interfaces.Oct 16 22:57
voltronwthen how the hell is it going to replace outlook?Oct 16 22:57
oiaohmReplace exchanage as well voltronwOct 16 22:58
trmancowhy would I want exchange if I have imap and ldapOct 16 22:58
oiaohmkolabOct 16 22:58
voltronwbecause you already have exchange if you're the average companyOct 16 22:58
oiaohmKolab will import all the data out exchange.Oct 16 22:58
oiaohmkolab has plugins for outlook that cost.Oct 16 22:58
oiaohmkontact basically makes conversion cheep.Oct 16 22:59
voltronwoiaohm: do you have experience migrating email systems for businesses?Oct 16 22:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux 2.6.32 Reaches Fifth RC http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/10/15/408Oct 16 22:59
phIRCeTitle: LKML: Linus Torvalds: Linux 2.6.32-rc5 .::. Size~: 25.4 KBOct 16 22:59
MinceRyou could replace exchange with kolab server, add the evaluation versino of toltec connector to outlook and have 30 days to replace outlook with kontact :>Oct 16 23:00
oiaohmYes I have voltronwOct 16 23:00
oiaohmExactly MinceROct 16 23:01
voltronwMinceR: that sounds like a good idea, migrating the server and the clients simultaneously would  probably be a non starter for most businessesOct 16 23:01
MinceRi'm not sure how the data is moved between the servers, but i suspect they have a wayOct 16 23:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google Uses #GNU #Linux to Obliterate #Microsoft http://ur1.ca/drqb http://ur1.ca/drqc http://ur1.ca/drqdOct 16 23:01
oiaohmkolab vampire connects to exchange as well.Oct 16 23:02
phIRCeTitle: First Look: Google's Chrome Browser Within The Chrome OS - LinuxWorld .::. Size~: 38.02 KBOct 16 23:02
oiaohmSo you can run kolab side by side with exchange while you are doing the migration.Oct 16 23:02
oiaohmOnly reason for not doing it is lack of windows side client.Oct 16 23:02
oiaohmBasically voltronw exchange is a sitting duck.Oct 16 23:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Computer Lab Running #GNU #Linux ( #Gentoo ), South America Moves in Same Direction http://ur1.ca/drql http://ur1.ca/drqmOct 16 23:03
phIRCeTitle: Online Games Press  » Blog Archive   » GHCAs Computer Lab Running Gentoo Linux .::. Size~: 13.12 KBOct 16 23:03
phIRCeTitle: open...: Open Sourcing America's Operating System .::. Size~: 94.47 KBOct 16 23:03
voltronwoiaohm: i hate exchange, i hope you're rightOct 16 23:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux #Desktop : the Question of #Choice Defended http://bit.ly/IjcGeOct 16 23:04
phIRCeTitle: Welcome to LinuxInsider .::. Size~: 3.33 KBOct 16 23:04
oiaohmI personally prefer this over kolab  but its harder to migrate exchange to http://www.citadel.orgOct 16 23:05
phIRCeTitle: Email and Groupware - easy to install, easy to use. - Citadel.org .::. Size~: 13.26 KBOct 16 23:05
oiaohmcitadel is based off the old BBS systems great for decentralised very tollerent to server disruption.Oct 16 23:06
oiaohmvoltronw: I am plaining something far worse than migrating just exchange.Oct 16 23:07
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oiaohmI am plaining a ADS migration to samba 3.5.0 and off exchange at the same time.Oct 16 23:07
voltronwoiaohm: aren't you worried about samba patents?Oct 16 23:08
oiaohmExchange has some nasty flaws.   ADS is the most common reason spreed out small business with MS small business server don't deploy enough servers.Oct 16 23:08
trmancostill discussing exchange? :-POct 16 23:08
oiaohmvoltronw: MS go for it.  Remember MS did not design anything new really in ADS is stuffed up LDAP with a few other open source things stuffed up.Oct 16 23:09
oiaohmvoltronw: and the file and printer protocals of windows are not MS's either.Oct 16 23:09
oiaohmPlease be aware Samba is offically the standard body for those protocals.Oct 16 23:10
voltronwoiaohm: so samba is good, mono is bad?Oct 16 23:10
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oiaohmNot exaclty.Oct 16 23:10
oiaohmSamba is the standard body.Oct 16 23:10
oiaohmIt would be interesting to have a court case to find out how much that means.Oct 16 23:10
oiaohmThat is right we have already had one in the EU and MS lost.Oct 16 23:11
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oiaohmSamba will defend its users.Oct 16 23:11
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oiaohmNovell behind mono has failed to defend there users so we have problems with mono.Oct 16 23:11
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voltronwwho should they have defended?Oct 16 23:12
voltronwalso, isn't mono licensed as Free Software? if novell disappeared tomorrow mono would still be aroundOct 16 23:12
oiaohmSamba defends any user using mono.Oct 16 23:12
oiaohmSamba project.Oct 16 23:12
oiaohmOpps.Oct 16 23:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment ( #KDE ) Surpasses Others in Usability -- Claim http://bit.ly/oTSYeOct 16 23:12
phIRCeTitle: KDE4 overtaking GNOME in terms of usability? | Nuxified.org .::. Size~: 75.21 KBOct 16 23:12
oiaohmSamba project defends any user using SambaOct 16 23:13
oiaohmMono project leads don't defend any user with Mono.Oct 16 23:13
oiaohmInstead there line is you are fine if you aquire it form Novell.Oct 16 23:13
oiaohmActions voltronwOct 16 23:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Compiz 0.8.4 is Out, Hulu is Proprietary and Slow http://ur1.ca/drr2 http://ur1.ca/drr3Oct 16 23:13
phIRCeTitle: [Phoronix] Compiz 0.8.4 Released With New Plug-Ins, Etc .::. Size~: 15.71 KBOct 16 23:13
phIRCeTitle: Hands-on: Hulu Desktop for Linux beta a big resource hog - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 43.5 KBOct 16 23:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Midori 0.2.0 it Out http://bit.ly/8ZLYrOct 16 23:14
phIRCeTitle: OMG! UBUNTU!: Midori 0.2.0 Released .::. Size~: 152.12 KBOct 16 23:14
oiaohmvoltronw: Samba lead developers have even stood up in court to protect the project.Oct 16 23:15
voltronwoiaohm: when has mono been challenged in court?Oct 16 23:16
oiaohmTomtom case.Oct 16 23:16
oiaohmSome of the patents being pushed agaisnt Tomtom were covering .netOct 16 23:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #JackWallen Continues Series on How to Dump #MacOSX for #GNU #Linux Applications http://ur1.ca/drraOct 16 23:16
phIRCeTitle: Linux equivalents to popular Mac apps .::. Size~: 38.59 KBOct 16 23:16
voltronwoiaohm: wasn't the tomtom  thing about FAT32?Oct 16 23:17
oiaohmThat was only 1 small part of it.Oct 16 23:17
oiaohm2 out of 8 patents.Oct 16 23:17
Omar87Hi all.Oct 16 23:17
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voltronwoiaohm: list?Oct 16 23:18
oiaohmNot open to public voltronwOct 16 23:18
voltronwoiaohm: everything i can find on it mentions FAT32 specifically, nothing about .netOct 16 23:19
oiaohmBecause the FAT patents could be fort.Oct 16 23:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Great New #Games for #GNU #Linux (and Instructions) http://ur1.ca/drrd http://ur1.ca/drre http://ur1.ca/drrf http://ur1.ca/drrgOct 16 23:19
phIRCeTitle: 3 Tools to Discover & Install Awesome Linux Games .::. Size~: 41.53 KBOct 16 23:19
phIRCeTitle: LinuxGames - Embrace your inner penguin .::. Size~: 15.44 KBOct 16 23:19
oiaohmDue to prior art and other things voltronwOct 16 23:20
phIRCeTitle: LinuxGames - Embrace your inner penguin .::. Size~: 15.23 KBOct 16 23:20
phIRCeTitle:   Get Your Five-Minute Multiplayer Game Fix with OMGPOP .::. Size~: 29.17 KBOct 16 23:20
voltronwoiaohm: so i'm still not sure what the tomtom case has to do with .net and/or monoOct 16 23:20
oiaohmNovell could not assist Tomtom over the .net patent claims due to there deal with MS.Oct 16 23:20
voltronwo'd like to understand this betterOct 16 23:20
oiaohmTomTom was using mono internally.Oct 16 23:20
oiaohmAll future versions will be pure C++Oct 16 23:21
voltronwoiaohm: citation?Oct 16 23:21
oiaohmIt was only mentioned a few times.Oct 16 23:21
voltronwoiaohm: where?Oct 16 23:22
oiaohmHmm I will have to dig back into wayback machine sites with the information about that are gone.Oct 16 23:24
voltronwoiaohm: ...Oct 16 23:25
oiaohmThe entry on tomtom covering what there devices were using internally are gone.Oct 16 23:25
voltronwoiaohm: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. you seem to have no evidenceOct 16 23:25
oiaohmThe issue here is I did have the evidence but the links are no more.Oct 16 23:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Qt 4.6 Brings Improves Cross-platform Support (Good for #KDE ?) http://ur1.ca/drs5 http://ur1.ca/drs6Oct 16 23:26
*voltronw shrugsOct 16 23:26
phIRCeTitle: Nokia Releases Qt 4.6 Framework -- Mobile Apps -- InformationWeek .::. Size~: 91.32 KBOct 16 23:26
phIRCeTitle: Qt 4.6 promises to deliver Windows 7, Maemo, and S60 support - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 46.04 KBOct 16 23:27
oiaohmIt happens voltronwOct 16 23:27
oiaohmO well another case will happen and the same will happen again.Oct 16 23:27
oiaohmNovell agreement with MS only covers users who aquire there binarys of there .net from Novell.Oct 16 23:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KDE Applications in Review - All Positive http://ur1.ca/drs8 http://ur1.ca/drs9 http://ur1.ca/drsa http://ur1.ca/drsbOct 16 23:27
phIRCeTitle: Kdenlive Meets Studio Dave | Linux Journal .::. Size~: 74.91 KBOct 16 23:27
phIRCeTitle: Windows KDE4: Dolphin (File Manager) .::. Size~: 45.89 KBOct 16 23:28
oiaohmAnd does not allow Novell to use its patents to protect anyone else.Oct 16 23:28
voltronwoiaohm: so you're argument is "some stuff happened in the past that i have no evidence of, and some stuff might happen in the future"?Oct 16 23:28
phIRCeTitle: aseigo: KDE example code .::. Size~: 87.93 KBOct 16 23:28
voltronwyourOct 16 23:28
oiaohmWill happen again voltronwOct 16 23:28
oiaohmUnless something changes.Oct 16 23:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Fedora 12 Looks Great and #Gentoo is FAR from Dead http://ur1.ca/dq8m http://ur1.ca/drseOct 16 23:28
phIRCeTitle: AdamW on Linux and more  » Blog Archive   » Fedora 12 goodness .::. Size~: 27.35 KBOct 16 23:28
oiaohmLike MS giving a proper patent coverage for .netOct 16 23:29
oiaohmIncluding mono.Oct 16 23:29
voltronwsomething in addition to ecma standardization and the community promise?Oct 16 23:29
oiaohmThat kind of issue is why Intel insisted that MS provide silverlight directly to them instead of using Moonlight.Oct 16 23:29
MinceRproper patent coverage would be by definition in addition or instead of those.Oct 16 23:30
oiaohmThe community promise only covers upto .net 2.0Oct 16 23:30
MinceRconsidering that neither ecma "standardization" nor the community promise is proper patent coverage.Oct 16 23:30
oiaohmNot current day .Net 3.5Oct 16 23:30
oiaohmie the ecma standard does not contain .net 3.5 MS never updated it.Oct 16 23:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Ubuntu Wins!" and Other Great Things Coming Its Way http://ur1.ca/drsl http://ur1.ca/drsm http://ur1.ca/drsn http://ur1.ca/drsoOct 16 23:30
phIRCeTitle: Ubuntu Wins! « On Becoming a Penguin .::. Size~: 30.97 KBOct 16 23:30
phIRCeTitle: LABS GALLERY: Ubuntu Linux 9.10 Beta Provides Security, Web Integration Enhancements .::. Size~: 37.2 KBOct 16 23:31
phIRCeTitle: Ubuntu Linux Opening Up Cloud Appliance Store - InternetNews.com .::. Size~: 145.88 KBOct 16 23:31
phIRCeTitle: Why I Use and Promote Ubuntu Linux  Tanner Helland (dot) Com     .::. Size~: 52.38 KBOct 16 23:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #WindowsTax Refunded and Passed to #GNU #Linux Developers http://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=1073 Fantastic!Oct 16 23:31
phIRCeTitle: The Linux Mint Blog  » Blog Archive   » Windows license refund donated to Mint .::. Size~: 18.11 KBOct 16 23:31
oiaohmBasically a simple if you are implenting a compadible .net implenetation we will not sue over usage of patents would cover it voltronwOct 16 23:32
oiaohmIts that MS limited the scope causes the problem voltronwOct 16 23:32
oiaohmAnd before that stating nothing about patents.Oct 16 23:32
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oiaohmNote we are worse off now than before MS declare what was covered.Oct 16 23:33
oiaohmsince in caught MS could argue now that it was a known breach since the ecma document clearly documented what was covered.Oct 16 23:33
oiaohmBasically legally screwed voltronw.Oct 16 23:35
oiaohmYou never asked me how I am sure it will happen again voltronw.Oct 16 23:36
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voltronwoiaohm: it may or may not. by definition, what you're saying is purely speculativeOct 16 23:37
oiaohmNot really voltronwOct 16 23:38
oiaohmWhen ever a company gets short of cash.  Like 3com recently there patents come to bare to make money.Oct 16 23:38
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oiaohmBasically legal department trying to save company to save there own skin.Oct 16 23:39
oiaohmThis is not specultaive it is what happens voltronwOct 16 23:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Becomes a Big Winner in Consumer Electronics/Appliances http://ur1.ca/druyOct 16 23:39
phIRCeTitle: Will Linux be the dominant OS for consumer electronics? - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 45.56 KBOct 16 23:39
oiaohmReason why it key that all patent agreements you depend on are written right.  Or that none exist.Oct 16 23:40
oiaohmNone exist you can still bring any patents you have to bare to sort out problem.Oct 16 23:41
voltronwletOct 16 23:41
voltronwlet's assume for a minute that you're hyper cautious reading of the legal and technical situation is correctOct 16 23:42
voltronwand consider this thought experiement. MS sues "mono" today and wins. what happens to software that depends on mono?Oct 16 23:42
oiaohmMS will not sue mono.Oct 16 23:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] As #Android Grows, "Android Foundation" Seen as an Option http://ur1.ca/drvz What about OHA?Oct 16 23:42
voltronwdoes a microsoft swat team burst into your house and shoot your computer that's running tomboy?Oct 16 23:42
phIRCeTitle:  Two Unexpected, Potential Scenarios for Android  .::. Size~: 37.34 KBOct 16 23:42
oiaohmThey will sue end users.Oct 16 23:42
oiaohmThat will be like device makers voltronwOct 16 23:43
oiaohmAnyone who does not aquire mono directly from Novell voltronwOct 16 23:43
oiaohmIn binary form.Oct 16 23:43
voltronwoiaohm: if i buy a dell computer, and install ubuntu, i got mono from ubuntuOct 16 23:43
MinceRand there's no m$ swat team, they'll use police forces provided by your government, paid by your tax money.Oct 16 23:43
schestowitzMono is Novell's drug samplesOct 16 23:43
oiaohmThen you can be sued voltronwOct 16 23:43
schestowitzThey put some mono in your drinkOct 16 23:44
oiaohmYou have no patent coverage voltronwOct 16 23:44
schestowitzLike Tomboy inside GNOMEOct 16 23:44
voltronwoiaohm: so microsoft is going to take individual tomboy users to court?Oct 16 23:44
schestowitzAnd you're then hooked on the drinkOct 16 23:44
oiaohmTomboy uses .net 3.5 features.Oct 16 23:44
oiaohmThey can voltronwOct 16 23:44
schestowitzBut only as long as it has the stuff slipped into itOct 16 23:44
oiaohmThe lead developers of mono are safe.Oct 16 23:44
schestowitzAnd it's not always free, eitherOct 16 23:44
voltronwoiaohm: but do you think they will?Oct 16 23:44
oiaohmThey are protected by Novell agreement.Oct 16 23:44
schestowitzRight now, Microsoft/Novell slip many 'mickies' into Linux users' drinkOct 16 23:45
oiaohmIf MS gets short enough for money they will be forced to voltronwOct 16 23:45
voltronwthere are hundreds of thousands of people running ubuntu. microsoft is going to serve every single one of them with a lawsuit?Oct 16 23:45
schestowitz"It's free software," they exclaimOct 16 23:45
schestowitzBut wait..Oct 16 23:45
schestowitzIt's gratis for now.Oct 16 23:45
oiaohmAt 2000 dollars Min per head it would be quite profitable voltronwOct 16 23:45
schestowitzAnd developers are meanwhile creating mills to manufacture mickiesOct 16 23:45
MinceRm$ is getting more desperate every monthOct 16 23:45
MinceRsome day they might indeed sue large companies using mono.Oct 16 23:46
MinceR(that is, as end-users)Oct 16 23:46
trmancoan example of why I love wolfram alpha -> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=lnOct 16 23:46
phIRCeTitle:  - Wolfram|Alpha .::. Size~: 21.72 KBOct 16 23:46
trmancoa simple one tooOct 16 23:46
voltronwoiaohm: so microsoft is going to sue an individual user and pursue a civil lawsuit for 2000 dollars each?Oct 16 23:46
schestowitzDon't exaggerateOct 16 23:46
schestowitzThat does not serve your caseOct 16 23:46
oiaohmThat is what they can legally sue for and 2000 would be nice.Oct 16 23:46
schestowitzIt's like saying, "why eat chocolate? It can give you a heart attack"Oct 16 23:47
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oiaohmOf course sueing companies would be a higher and simpler voltronwOct 16 23:47
oiaohmLess paper work.Oct 16 23:48
voltronwoiaohm: then in the case of my dell computer/ubuntu linux case, who gets sued? ubuntu?Oct 16 23:48
schestowitzNo suingOct 16 23:48
schestowitzDell signed a dealOct 16 23:48
oiaohmThat case ubuntu is not  in a location to be used.Oct 16 23:48
schestowitzAnd they can add mono taxOct 16 23:48
oiaohmsued.Oct 16 23:48
schestowitzOf course they'd call it s/t elseOct 16 23:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Phones from #Palm Arrive at the #UK , Reviewed http://ur1.ca/drwd http://ur1.ca/drweOct 16 23:48
phIRCeTitle: Palm Pré arrives in Blighty • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 18.78 KBOct 16 23:48
phIRCeTitle: Palm Pre smartphone • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 21.09 KBOct 16 23:48
oiaohmAnd dell paid for you already voltronwOct 16 23:49
schestowitzDell joined the Novell/Microsoft deal in May 2007Oct 16 23:49
voltronwbut dell isn't providing me with monoOct 16 23:49
schestowitzDell also pays PowerDVD peopleOct 16 23:49
schestowitzOr LinDVD ratherOct 16 23:49
schestowitzSo MPEG and stuff alsoOct 16 23:49
MinceRdell also has the additional disadvantage of being crap.Oct 16 23:49
schestowitzvoltronw: it doesOct 16 23:49
schestowitzIt uses vanilla *buntuOct 16 23:49
oiaohmIf you installed it and its not the dell version you are the builder responsable.Oct 16 23:49
schestowitzD[E]LL HELLOct 16 23:50
MinceRindeedOct 16 23:50
oiaohmThe is the problem lot of Linux users are no longer just computer users.Oct 16 23:50
voltronwschestowitz: but as soon as i run apt-get upgrade then i'm not running dell supplied mono.Oct 16 23:50
oiaohmThey are system installers and software aquires.Oct 16 23:50
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oiaohmvoltronw: you are still using dell supplied OS with dell approved updates.Oct 16 23:51
oiaohmSo still covered by the argreement.Oct 16 23:51
voltronwoiaohm: am i downloading code form a ubuntu mirror hosted on dell servers? no.Oct 16 23:51
oiaohmYes its where the OS is from covers if you have patent coverage.Oct 16 23:51
oiaohmThe wording is evil voltronwOct 16 23:51
oiaohmUsing the same file mirror is not the issue.Oct 16 23:52
oiaohmIf you download the install iso of ubuntu from dell for a dell machine you are covered by the patent agreemtn.Oct 16 23:52
voltronwoiaohm: where can i download an ubuntu iso from dell? link?Oct 16 23:52
oiaohmYet if you download that same iso from the ubuntu home site due to the wording of the agreement you are not covered.Oct 16 23:53
oiaohmYou can get it out the dell support site but its a lot of digging voltronwOct 16 23:53
voltronwoh i found ubuntu 7.4 on linux.dell.comOct 16 23:53
oiaohmBasically MS patent agreement is a trap for end users.Oct 16 23:54
voltronwso great, if i want to be "covered" i have to download 7.04 from dell and run a 2.5 year old distro?Oct 16 23:54
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oiaohmThere is a 8.04 up there too voltronwOct 16 23:54
oiaohmBut it is berried away.Oct 16 23:54
voltronwwhich is 1.5 years oldOct 16 23:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Linux: it's good enough for Microsoft! http://is.gd/4n0FkOct 16 23:54
phIRCeTitle: Is it ethical for Microsoft to offer online services? A Review | Tech Blog .::. Size~: 40.76 KBOct 16 23:54
oiaohmYep it suxs voltronwOct 16 23:54
EDavidBurgwhat patent agreements are you talking about?Oct 16 23:55
oiaohmInstall 8.04 then have to do distribution upgrade to be covered.Oct 16 23:55
oiaohmMS/Novell agreement that Dell also has agreed to the same format.  EDavidBurgOct 16 23:55
voltronwi'm not a lawyer. if any of you are, please speak up, because the things i'm being told here don't make any sense whatsoeverOct 16 23:55
oiaohmThe law is a ass voltronwOct 16 23:56
oiaohmParticularly when things are written badly voltronwOct 16 23:56
voltronwEDavidBurg: don't ask him for any evidence of this, the links probably "don't exist anymore"Oct 16 23:56
oiaohmI though those links still existed when gave that point voltronwOct 16 23:56
oiaohmThe Novell and dell patent agreements with MS are listed in the stock exchange voltronwOct 16 23:57
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EDavidBurgoiaohm: but what are these patent agreements about? what's the danger in not being covered by them?Oct 16 23:58
schestowitzhttp://linuxlandit.blogspot.com/2009/10/antomic-is-project-to-build-free.htmlOct 16 23:58
phIRCeTitle: Linuxlandit & The Conqueror Worm: Antomic is a project to build a free operating system based on GNU and other free software .::. Size~: 199.06 KBOct 16 23:58
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oiaohmIf MS gets desprate enough they could bring there patents to bare like 3com is doing now on quite a few places EDavidBurgOct 16 23:58
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schestowitzvoltronw: besides the pointOct 16 23:58
EDavidBurgoiaohm: ...but what are the patent agreements about?Oct 16 23:59
voltronwschestowitz: i really wish i knew what the point was, no one seems to be making any strong onesOct 16 23:59
schestowitzEDavidBurg: which one/s?\Oct 16 23:59

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