Boycott Novell logo

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 17th, 2009

EDavidBurgschestowitz: the ones that oiaohm is talking aboutOct 17 00:00
schestowitzvoltronw: I'll answer in a momentOct 17 00:00
schestowitzI can't multitask well with posts and IRCOct 17 00:00
schestowitzI get distracted and lose train of thought....Oct 17 00:00
oiaohmNot to apply patents against there users  that is how the seam to read but there a lot of issues in design of the documents. EDavidBurgOct 17 00:01
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oiaohmIe loop holes where if person does something slightly different they are no longer coverd.Oct 17 00:02
EDavidBurgoiaohm: so you're saying you can't install Ubuntu on a Dell machine without using Dell's ISO?Oct 17 00:02
EDavidBurgoiaohm: and if you do, Microsoft can sue your pants off?Oct 17 00:03
voltronwEDavidBurg: does that sound insane to you too?Oct 17 00:03
EDavidBurgA little bitOct 17 00:03
oiaohmDue to the loop homes in the agreement.Oct 17 00:03
oiaohmHomes/holesOct 17 00:03
oiaohmThat basically should never had been there.Oct 17 00:03
EDavidBurgwhere is the text of the patent agreement with the loophole?Oct 17 00:04
oiaohmOn the USA stock exchange EDavidBurgOct 17 00:04
EDavidBurgoiaohm: care to link me?Oct 17 00:04
voltronwoiaohm: link?Oct 17 00:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenOffice .org Adopts #Mercurial and Releases New Beta http://ur1.ca/drxm http://ur1.ca/drxo #oooOct 17 00:04
phIRCeTitle: OpenOffice.org migrating to Mercurial - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 25.71 KBOct 17 00:04
phIRCeTitle: OpenOffice.org 3.2 Beta release - GullFOSS .::. Size~: 57.02 KBOct 17 00:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Digium CEO Very Positive About #Asterisk , #IBM Comes Joining http://ur1.ca/drxr http://ur1.ca/drxsOct 17 00:05
phIRCeTitle: Digium CEO: We're Profitable, Channel Driven | The VAR Guy .::. Size~: 50.75 KBOct 17 00:05
phIRCeTitle: IBM, Digium Team on Asterisk Phone System - InternetNews.com .::. Size~: 145.79 KBOct 17 00:05
oiaohmThe agreement is particular.   If Dell or Microsoft or Novell or patners provide coverage.  If another third party provides the same thing no coverage.Oct 17 00:06
voltronwoiaohm: citation?Oct 17 00:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Oracle Challenged by #FreeSoftware in #Databases , Adopts #FOSS in Response http://ur1.ca/drxx http://ur1.ca/drxzOct 17 00:06
oiaohmvoltronw: why would you create an agreement like this.Oct 17 00:06
phIRCeTitle: Open source database to wean companies off Oracle - Techworld.com .::. Size~: 118.42 KBOct 17 00:06
phIRCeTitle: Oracle revs Xen VM to 2.2 • Channel Register .::. Size~: 28.98 KBOct 17 00:07
oiaohmIt called a controlled supply agreement.Oct 17 00:07
oiaohmSomething MS has done for ages.Oct 17 00:07
EDavidBurgoiaohm: you still haven't given any evidence that what you're saying about the agreement has any veracity whatsoeverOct 17 00:07
oiaohmI am not digging into the stock exchnage for the report to them for it.Oct 17 00:08
satiperaRoy, I have just finished watching your interview, good job. You warmed up as you went along. Jono bacon in the end came across badly especially has he tried to patronise you at least 3 times with the same "your heart is in the right place" line, and by digging himself a huge hole on the subject of spam and how you are supposedly responsible for everyone who links to the site. Also after the interview was over some of thOct 17 00:08
oiaohmIt is there for everyone to read.Oct 17 00:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Said to be Capable of Saving #UK #Schools £60 Million http://ur1.ca/dry5Oct 17 00:08
phIRCeTitle: Open Source Could Save UK Schools £60 Million A Year - News - eWeekEurope.co.uk .::. Size~: 22.96 KBOct 17 00:08
EDavidBurgoiaohm: okay, so you're not doing to back up any of your claims; good to knowOct 17 00:09
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voltronwEDavidBurg: seems to be a running themeOct 17 00:09
oiaohmEDavidBurg: just not bothering for the simple reason had this agruement enough times.Oct 17 00:09
oiaohmAnd if you go looking in the stock exchange you will see the other documents as well.Oct 17 00:10
trmancohttp://tinyurl.com/b2kl39Oct 17 00:10
trmancololOct 17 00:10
phIRCeTitle: Let me google that for you .::. Size~: 8.94 KBOct 17 00:10
oiaohmYou are aware that the lead of mono has not even got full carfication on what they are allowed to do under the agreement either.Oct 17 00:11
voltronwoiaohm: citation?Oct 17 00:11
oiaohmDirectly ask him.Oct 17 00:11
oiaohmIt might have changed.Oct 17 00:11
oiaohmLast time I asked on thrid party distribution he could not provide clear answer and said legal department of novel had not been able to get an answer out of MS.Oct 17 00:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU -based System Called #Antomic Takes Off http://bit.ly/2pG5HOct 17 00:14
phIRCeTitle: Linuxlandit & The Conqueror Worm: Antomic is a project to build a free operating system based on GNU and other free software .::. Size~: 199.06 KBOct 17 00:14
voltronwoiaohm: i rode my flying unicorn to work today. i'd link you to a picture... but i don't feel like itOct 17 00:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #US #Education Chooses #FreeSoftware ( #Drupal ) for Web Sites http://ur1.ca/dryh http://ur1.ca/dryi http://ur1.ca/dryjOct 17 00:16
phIRCeTitle: Strayer using Drupal | Dries Buytaert .::. Size~: 10.63 KBOct 17 00:16
phIRCeTitle: Duke using Drupal | Dries Buytaert .::. Size~: 11.27 KBOct 17 00:16
phIRCeTitle: Stanford using Drupal | Dries Buytaert .::. Size~: 11.77 KBOct 17 00:17
oiaohmvoltronw: Simple point is not my job to do the research for you.Oct 17 00:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla Steps up Security Commitments http://ur1.ca/drymOct 17 00:17
phIRCeTitle:  Mozilla will let rival browsers run Firefox security tool .::. Size~: 138.34 KBOct 17 00:17
oiaohmvoltronw: I have told you were you need to look.Oct 17 00:18
voltronwoiaohm: actually it is. you make a point, you present evidence to back up that point.Oct 17 00:18
voltronwwell, you don't. most people do.Oct 17 00:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #JetBrains Component Goes #FreeSoftware http://ur1.ca/dryq http://ur1.ca/dryrOct 17 00:19
phIRCeTitle: JetBrains readies open source version of its Java IDE - LinuxWorld .::. Size~: 37.18 KBOct 17 00:19
phIRCeTitle: IntelliJ IDEA Open Sourced  - Lenz Grimmer's blog .::. Size~: 74.33 KBOct 17 00:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GPL Defended Again http://ur1.ca/dryt http://ur1.ca/dryu http://ur1.ca/dryvOct 17 00:20
oiaohmAlong the way you will learn how to see future problems comming by learning to search the stock exchanges. voltronw  I would not be doing you a long term favour just presenting you with the link.Oct 17 00:20
phIRCeTitle: 451 CAOS Theory » Out of control .::. Size~: 53.09 KBOct 17 00:20
phIRCeTitle: Sounds like GPLv2 «  Bobulate .::. Size~: 15.17 KBOct 17 00:21
phIRCeTitle: Linux Today Blog .::. Size~: 74.41 KBOct 17 00:21
voltronwoiaohm: ah, thanks so much for doing me a favor. i owe you one.Oct 17 00:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Sky blasts BBC over use of licence fees for television http://notnews.today.com/?p=694 (everyone did all the #janmoir jokes first!)Oct 17 00:22
phIRCeTitle: Sky blasts BBC over use of licence fees for television - News of the News .::. Size~: 33.93 KBOct 17 00:22
oiaohmBesides the links got plased accorss many news sites as well voltronw most people did not bother reading them.Oct 17 00:23
voltronwoiaohm: please find onf of the many news sites that it was "plased accorrs" and paste the url into ircOct 17 00:25
oiaohmNote this was years ago.  Before gpl3Oct 17 00:25
oiaohmIt was the cause of gplv3 being written as well.Oct 17 00:26
voltronwoiaohm: i'm getting a litlte tired of this. so, one more time: citation?Oct 17 00:27
voltronwi'd love to read some supporting evidence that dell was the cause of the gpl3Oct 17 00:27
oiaohmMS/Novell deal Oct 17 00:27
oiaohmThat dell become a patener to be covered by.Oct 17 00:27
oiaohmAnd if you dig far enough there is a way to get the same coverage as dell for zero dollars.Oct 17 00:29
oiaohmLoop holes takes a time and effort to find ones to you advantage and ones to your disadvantage.Oct 17 00:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Musicians Retreat Away from #Copyright #Cartel http://ur1.ca/drzi http://ur1.ca/drzjOct 17 00:32
phIRCeTitle:    P2P Site Coalition to Help Indie Filmmakers | TorrentFreak   .::. Size~: 60.12 KBOct 17 00:32
phIRCeTitle: Clubs turn to independent artists for music - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) .::. Size~: 26.73 KBOct 17 00:32
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #British #Healthcare Paralysed Due to #Microsoft http://bit.ly/113Y71Oct 17 00:37
phIRCeTitle: Microsoft's Hotmail 'blacklists' NHS email - again • The Register .::. Size~: 22.38 KBOct 17 00:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 Can't Handle #winXP 'Upgrades' http://ur1.ca/ds0tOct 17 00:44
phIRCeTitle: Apple's own Windows 7 pitch .::. Size~: 43.92 KBOct 17 00:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft May be Operating Dubious #Twitter Bots http://bit.ly/2C3SEVOct 17 00:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #AstroTurfing Firms Attack #FTC http://bit.ly/3wCIR1Oct 17 00:45
phIRCeTitle: When is a RT Bot not a RT Bot?  Hashwindows? «  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 35.61 KBOct 17 00:45
phIRCeTitle: Key Perspectives on the FTC Blogger Guidelines | WebProNews .::. Size~: 31.93 KBOct 17 00:46
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schestowitzhttp://identi.ca/notice/12225723Oct 17 00:57
phIRCeTitle: Roy Schestowitz (schestowitz) 's status on Friday, 16-Oct-09 23:55:50 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 7.06 KBOct 17 00:57
schestowitzSome dude thought I had it automated or something, which of course I don'tOct 17 00:57
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trmancoheh :-POct 17 01:01
trmanco!quit phIRCeOct 17 01:08
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Minimum Wage, Maximum Outrage" http://ping.fm/8EarAOct 17 02:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Mark up one more user I've introduced to Linux! They are very happy with their Linux Mint nstallation. #windows #microsoft #foss #linuxOct 17 02:16
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/blog/2009/oct/14/bees-scientific-researchOct 17 02:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @_goblin Mark up one more user I've introduced to Linux! They are very happy with their Linux Mint nstallation. #foss #linuxOct 17 02:30
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/16/kaspersky_rebukes_net_anonymity/ Security boss calls for end to net anonymityOct 17 02:34
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYADrhUR8nk&feature=relatedOct 17 02:51
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schestowitzIntresting blog: http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/Oct 17 03:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @schestowitz I see you are "burning the midnight oil" aswell! Im off to bed in a minute..GN.Oct 17 03:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Twitter Bots, #FTC Blowback, and Paid-for #Vista7 Glorification http://ping.fm/PojjIOct 17 03:40
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SimonPhipps on “Monomaniacs”, More Reactions to Jeremy Allison’s #Mono Prognosis http://ping.fm/oX3gFOct 17 04:23
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DaemonFCmy friend got her citizenship approved finallyOct 17 04:27
DaemonFCtook about long enoughOct 17 04:27
DaemonFCI've always wondered why the government was heckling her (she was smuggled here as a baby and lived here her whole life) when there are thousands of people who just jump over a fence from Mexico every dayOct 17 04:28
DaemonFCto be more precise, a lot of them just leech off welfare and demand that I speak SpanishOct 17 04:29
DaemonFCshe went to school while all this was going on and got a useful skillOct 17 04:30
DaemonFCI don't know why the US government gives more priority to people who knowingly entered illegally with the intent to defraud our welfare systemOct 17 04:30
DaemonFChttp://www.sun.com/solutions/cloudcomputing/index.jspOct 17 04:33
DaemonFCheheOct 17 04:33
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Willschestowitz: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139459/Sneaky_Microsoft_plug_in_puts_Firefox_users_at_riskOct 17 07:28
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Willschestowitz:  It was addressed by a recent patch, but still, considering Microsoft recently tried to FUD the Chrome Frame plugin in IE...Oct 17 07:30
WillAnd at least Google doesn't force its plugin on IE users.Oct 17 07:30
oiaohmChrome frame plugin is addressing weaknesses in IE own rendering engine.Oct 17 07:33
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Willoiaohm:  I know, and iirc, they got a 10x performance boost out of IE by using the Frame engine instead of the IE one.Oct 17 07:36
Willit was on ./ a while backOct 17 07:36
Willand now for a great regex on that last post:  s/.\//\/./Oct 17 07:37
amarsh04thanks schestowitz, just read that article from theaustralian.news.com.auOct 17 07:44
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PetoKrausoh boyOct 17 08:18
PetoKrausthis openoffice paging system is complicatedOct 17 08:18
PetoKrausbut it worksOct 17 08:18
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oiaohmThere are a few extentions out there for writers to make it work simpler PetoKrausOct 17 08:37
oiaohmAt least once you have openoffice paging set it works compared to MS Word that can kinda get lost somewhere and skip pages and other stupid things.Oct 17 08:38
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PetoKrausoiaohm, it works okOct 17 08:44
PetoKrauseven without extensionsOct 17 08:44
PetoKrausand I need some awkward stuffOct 17 08:44
PetoKrauslike different formats on various pagesOct 17 08:44
PetoKrausborders, footers, page numbers etcfOct 17 08:44
PetoKraus*etcOct 17 08:45
PetoKrausit's literally freezing hereOct 17 08:46
PetoKraus15C in my roomOct 17 08:47
PetoKrausi should start compiling something to heat it up hereOct 17 08:48
Diablo-D3holy shitOct 17 08:48
Diablo-D359fOct 17 08:48
Diablo-D3thats coldOct 17 08:48
PetoKrausi was cycling like 2 hours ago from my gf's placeOct 17 08:49
PetoKrausmy fingers were falling offOct 17 08:49
Diablo-D3cycling _from_? you idiotOct 17 08:49
PetoKrausit must've been like -10Oct 17 08:49
PetoKrausbut then, it's 1/2 of october...Oct 17 08:51
Diablo-D3its 33f outside hereOct 17 08:51
Diablo-D3or 0cOct 17 08:51
PetoKrausyeah. my fingers are so frozen, that i managed to block my access to my internet bankingOct 17 08:57
PetoKraus:/Oct 17 08:57
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oiaohmI wonder if you case is like mineOct 17 08:58
oiaohmPop one of the plasitic case fillers off put hands in there have them warm fairly quicky.Oct 17 08:59
oiaohmThanks to Nvidia video card.Oct 17 08:59
PetoKraushehOct 17 09:00
PetoKrausonboard ATI HD 4200Oct 17 09:00
PetoKrausdoesn't even have active coolingOct 17 09:01
oiaohmI have a old butt upper model Nvidia card.Oct 17 09:01
oiaohmMy processor is a amd64 that is lucky to be 4 c above room.Oct 17 09:01
PetoKrausmy rig is basically week oldOct 17 09:01
oiaohmEven at full load.Oct 17 09:02
PetoKrausyupOct 17 09:02
PetoKrausthey were quite cold these thignsOct 17 09:02
PetoKrausi remember having my AMD 64 3000+ running on 27COct 17 09:02
oiaohmWithout video card I would not even have a hand heater.Oct 17 09:02
oiaohmIntel processor by any chance PetoKrausOct 17 09:03
oiaohmThose will heat up.Oct 17 09:03
PetoKrauswell, nowadays, this X3 phenom i've got, 44.5C when cold :)Oct 17 09:03
PetoKrausoff to work, talk to you later guysOct 17 09:06
oiaohmhttps://services.google.com/fb/forms/streetviewussuggestions/?utm_campaign=en&utm_medium=van&utm_source=en-van-na-us-gns-svn-com/trike   HmmOct 17 09:08
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qsheetsanyone here good with M$ IIS?Oct 17 09:24
oiaohmOther than don't use it because its a evil interconnected MS qsheetsOct 17 09:25
oiaohmGet some settings wrong in IIS and ntbackup referses to run.Oct 17 09:25
qsheetsoiaohm: then you'll love this...Oct 17 09:25
qsheetshttp://fcnewton.ath.cx:81/Oct 17 09:25
qsheetsyou see a "website down" error, right?Oct 17 09:26
oiaohmYep.Oct 17 09:26
qsheetsall my local comps see only the images and the word "Newton"Oct 17 09:27
oiaohmThat is not exactly IIS.Oct 17 09:27
qsheetsyou see index.htm and locally, I see index.phpOct 17 09:27
oiaohmIf I type in index.php I still see the right page.Oct 17 09:28
oiaohmAre you running windows web caching?Oct 17 09:29
oiaohmYes interconnected Mess.Oct 17 09:29
qsheetsidkOct 17 09:29
oiaohmAlter IIS settings also effects that.Oct 17 09:29
oiaohmIt gets even worse if you have nortons anti-virus management.Oct 17 09:29
oiaohmThinking it wants to be the prime site.Oct 17 09:30
oiaohmHave you broken wsus as well?Oct 17 09:30
*qsheets deletes index.htmOct 17 09:31
oiaohmOk I now have blank.Oct 17 09:31
qsheetsshould be good, nowOct 17 09:32
oiaohmNow have the newtonOct 17 09:32
qsheetsgood thing my main server at home runs Ubuntu and thus apacheOct 17 09:33
oiaohmIIS is the web server you use if you want to have people killing you every time you make an alteration.Oct 17 09:34
oiaohmI have not said the best.Oct 17 09:34
oiaohmYou know windows graphicall like short cuts ie the manage server screen that is also rendered by IIS.Oct 17 09:34
oiaohmSo yes getting IIS wrong really upsets things.Oct 17 09:35
qsheetsthat one is WinXP ProOct 17 09:35
oiaohmWindows service 2003 and 2008 skiped over including the independant render that was in XP.Oct 17 09:36
oiaohmJust used IIS.Oct 17 09:36
oiaohmNote Windows 2000 it was independant to IIS.Oct 17 09:37
qsheetsoiaohm: Is there any merit in having a server run WinSE 2003 over Ubuntu SE?Oct 17 09:37
oiaohmCurrently ADS server to manage windows clients is a good reason to run a Windows serverOct 17 09:37
oiaohmSame with running wsus to track update deployment.Oct 17 09:38
oiaohmFor web sites no real advantages to windows servers.Oct 17 09:38
qsheetshow about hosted services (not including terminal apps)Oct 17 09:39
oiaohmDefine services.Oct 17 09:39
oiaohmIf they are cross platform really no advantage to windows.Oct 17 09:40
qsheetsmedia streaming, file server, mail serverOct 17 09:40
oiaohmfile server solarias is the best.Oct 17 09:40
oiaohmmedia streaming mediatomb for upnp is not bad.  Then there are other streaming software for cross internet no real advantage to windows there either.Oct 17 09:41
oiaohmmail server clients running outlook and they want full intergration ie exchange maybe windows server.Oct 17 09:41
oiaohmBut exchange server is a dumb brick.Oct 17 09:42
qsheetsagreedOct 17 09:42
oiaohmIe will not look up email on a person account when they request email.Oct 17 09:42
oiaohmMost other mail servers can be set to check for mail when user requests mail from server for that user.Oct 17 09:42
oiaohmOn outside servers.Oct 17 09:42
qsheetsok, and just for the hell of it... how do you feel about Novell+Windows being used in a University environment?Oct 17 09:43
oiaohmWhen samba gets ADS lot of MS server reasons disappear.Oct 17 09:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Annoyingly facebook intercepts ALT+1, ALT+2 that I use in Chrome to switch tabs. and switches in the facebook tab.Oct 17 09:43
oiaohmqsheets: at least is better than a Uni using pure windows.Oct 17 09:44
qsheetsoiaohm: even though during high traffic hours, it takes over a minute to loginOct 17 09:45
oiaohmWindows clients qsheets?Oct 17 09:45
oiaohmThey can be bugger all slow to login no matter the server.Oct 17 09:45
qsheetswindows computers running a Novell loginOct 17 09:46
oiaohmNovell login can be faster than windows normal login.Oct 17 09:46
qsheetsand Mac is even faster :POct 17 09:47
oiaohmMS systems screw around too much on login.Oct 17 09:47
qsheetstrue, they close processes just to reopenthemOct 17 09:49
qsheetss/nt/n_tOct 17 09:49
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phIRCeHello World!Oct 17 09:50
qsheetsGoodbye Cruel World!Oct 17 09:51
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Diablo-D3http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gizmodo/full/~3/z1o-8VN8MSM/snow-leopard-beats-windows-7-in-almost-every-count-on-mac-hardwareOct 17 09:54
Diablo-D3bwahahhahaOct 17 09:54
phIRCeTitle: Google FeedBurner .::. Size~: 11.44 KBOct 17 09:54
qsheetsDiablo-D3: niceOct 17 09:56
Diablo-D3http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/wLrLtI3nykE/IBM-Intel-Execs-Arrested-Over-Insider-TradingOct 17 09:57
phIRCeTitle: Google FeedBurner .::. Size~: 11.44 KBOct 17 09:57
Diablo-D3double bwahhahahahaOct 17 09:57
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Windows 7 loses to #OSX 10.6 http://ur1.ca/dsofOct 17 09:59
phIRCeTitle: Snow Leopard Beats Windows 7 In Almost Every Count on Mac Hardware - Snow leopard - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 67.64 KBOct 17 09:59
cubezzzwhat's the deal with all the Mac stuff?Oct 17 10:08
cubezzzanywaysOct 17 10:09
Diablo-D3cubezzz: basically, osx uses the power of cheeseOct 17 10:09
cubezzzah, well now I understandOct 17 10:10
Diablo-D3its gpu shitOct 17 10:10
Diablo-D3and a native well designed parallel app factoryOct 17 10:10
cubezzzit looks pretty?Oct 17 10:10
Diablo-D3its looks pretty fastOct 17 10:10
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #IBM and #Intel execs caught insider trading http://ur1.ca/dspaOct 17 10:14
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #TSA is a terrorist organization http://ur1.ca/dspeOct 17 10:14
phIRCeTitle: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | IBM, Intel Execs Arrested Over Insider Trading .::. Size~: 145.75 KBOct 17 10:14
phIRCeTitle: tsa agents took my son  @  My Bottles Up .::. Size~: 56.02 KBOct 17 10:14
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satiperaI thought this was quite funny, from steve hill in the science comments in the guardian. "      It's a prospect plausible enough to worry the encryption industry, encryption resting on the assumption that computer power is strictly limited to a single universe.  There are universes where I can write what I like and moderators have no power to delete it? Wow.  But it's hard to see why quantum computers in other universes Oct 17 10:19
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Apple open sourced Grand Central Dispatch, fuck yeah http://ur1.ca/bhuvOct 17 10:24
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Microsoft is dying a medium paced death http://ur1.ca/dspnOct 17 10:24
phIRCeTitle: libdispatch .::. Size~: 7.56 KBOct 17 10:24
phIRCeTitle: CHART OF THE DAY: Google's Massive Cash Flow In Context II - Google Stock - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 65.73 KBOct 17 10:24
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Diablo-D3http://www.cinematical.com/2009/10/16/credits-report-let-love-rule-remix/Oct 17 10:35
phIRCeTitle: Credits Report: 'Let Love Rule' Remix - Cinematical .::. Size~: 65.5 KBOct 17 10:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Some very personal stuff (not Linux related), I am seriously considering breaking up with Julian. I think he is paranoid delusional.Oct 17 10:36
Diablo-D3I wonder if its possible to have a movie thats all car chasesOct 17 10:37
oiaohmYes it is Diablo-D3 I cannot remember the name of the movie off the top of my head but in my collection there is 1.Oct 17 10:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Very disappointed by the FLOSS Weekly interview with Roy Schestowitz. IMHO Jono Bacon was unreasonably hostile towards Roy.Oct 17 10:41
Diablo-D3is ml2mst on twitter?Oct 17 10:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] I fully agree with Joe's contribution on Openbytes: http://tinyurl.com/ykq4joaOct 17 10:48
phIRCeTitle: Page not found «  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 23.8 KBOct 17 10:48
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Richard_Looking for "Goblin".  He hangs out here, I think?Oct 17 10:55
Diablo-D3sometimesOct 17 10:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] For the benefit of readers Linsux is a Windows inspired forum that uses vulgarity and abuse in order to cheapen Linux users.Oct 17 10:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Oh well, some Linux related news after all: I am currently downloading Fedora 12 KDE Live. This will kick Windwoes eXPee from Pleunix!Oct 17 10:57
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin Yo Jonbo, nice to see you again ;-) but hey, it was already crystal clear that Linsux is a Linux hostile blog.Oct 17 11:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] I think Linsux is hosted by ether Flatfish, Hadron, Tim Smith or one of the other well knowing Microsoft Faithful.Oct 17 11:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] The word "Linsux" had been used by the Microsoft Faithful in COLA for ages. Nothing new here.Oct 17 11:05
cubezzzjust ask them all if they can compile windowsOct 17 11:07
cubezzzhar harOct 17 11:08
cubezzzthat usual ends the discussionOct 17 11:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Ah, the Fedora 12 KDE Live ISO9660 image is in. Burn baby burn ;-)Oct 17 11:12
cubezzzEliot Gould was in a movie with a famous car chase sceneOct 17 11:13
cubezzz"Capricorn One"Oct 17 11:13
oiaohmcubezzz: I do have one thing I hate about Linux is dialup modem support.Oct 17 11:13
cubezzzthe whole movie wasn't a car chase though :)Oct 17 11:13
cubezzzhmmm?Oct 17 11:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] ISO Urged to Invalidate OOXML as Microsoft’s Role Gets Shown; More Smears of ODF Come from Microsoft http://ping.fm/Yic93Oct 17 11:13
phIRCeTitle: ISO Urged to Invalidate OOXML as Microsofts Role Gets Shown; More Smears of ODF Come from Microsoft | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 120.26 KBOct 17 11:13
oiaohmI am looking forward to gcc working perfectly.  At least we should be able to performce kill ms.Oct 17 11:15
cubezzzI think I used kppp onceOct 17 11:15
cubezzzdon't recall any big problem with itOct 17 11:16
oiaohmI mean support for the modem cards themselves cubezzzOct 17 11:18
oiaohmThe odds are against them working unless you buy them particularly.Oct 17 11:18
oiaohmInterface great drivers o boy.Oct 17 11:19
schestowitzDiablo-D3: don't use the f word here, pleaseOct 17 11:20
schestowitzBe civilOct 17 11:20
cubezzzI think I used an old US Robotics modem without any issuesOct 17 11:23
cubezzzit wasn't one of those awful winmodems thoughOct 17 11:23
Diablo-D3under what? linux?Oct 17 11:23
Diablo-D3any real modem works fineOct 17 11:23
cubezzzLinux, yesOct 17 11:23
Diablo-D3quite a few winmodems work now tooOct 17 11:23
Diablo-D3most of them it was just an issue of uploading a firmware to themOct 17 11:23
Diablo-D3very few are really stripped downOct 17 11:23
oiaohmMost common around here I hit ess winmodems.Oct 17 11:26
oiaohmwhat are basically paper weights.Oct 17 11:26
Diablo-D3the modem, ultimately, is dead thoughOct 17 11:26
oiaohmNot for a while yet here in AustraliaOct 17 11:27
cubezzzwell, they still use the term "modem" as in "DSL modem"Oct 17 11:27
oiaohmAdsl don't cover everywhere.Oct 17 11:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst Yeah. But since its userbase is so low its more of a hive for infantile vulgarity..check out the user "Captain Cool" he's a hoot.Oct 17 11:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst Moving on to more serious issues, Im sorry to hear of your problems with your new partner. I hope it works out.Oct 17 11:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LockheedMartin Shoots Own Foot with #Microsoft http://ping.fm/LwMy9 #tcp #networkOct 17 11:46
phIRCeTitle: Lockheed Martin Shoots Own Foot with Microsoft | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.55 KBOct 17 11:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin Don't bother. I hoped this would turn out to be a serious relation ship (I prefer monogamy) it turned out to be a sex toy...Oct 17 11:48
Diablo-D3I wonder where goblin wandered off toOct 17 11:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] ... or some such. Not my piece of cake. Julian became very demanding and forbade me all sort of things.Oct 17 11:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] I am a honest and spontaneous person person. I can't cope with a lover of 46 who is still in the closet.Oct 17 11:50
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schestowitzJust offlineOct 17 11:51
schestowitzThe recent attacks on Stallman merit a discussion. There is a lot that needs clarifying there as well.Oct 17 11:51
schestowitzRMS is being left alone nowOct 17 11:51
schestowitzThe trolls have no shame, stillOct 17 11:52
schestowitzDistortions and smears.Oct 17 11:52
schestowitzOne could touch on the fact that I was an avid SUSE user for years, used it exclusively at home and at work, even promoted Novell (it's still on the Web). One could raise that common question/misunderstanding that I'm 'against' Ubuntu and GNOME (I'm not).Oct 17 11:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] BTW, "Captain Cool" sounds pretty fishy, flat fishy that is. Flatso used a gazillion of of Captain and Dr. nyms in COLA. Nothing new here.Oct 17 11:52
schestowitz*sigh*Oct 17 11:52
trmancowhat?Oct 17 11:55
trmanco!google define:sighOct 17 11:58
phIRCe[1] - define.com: Free Online Dictionary and Thesaurus - Click. Explore ... | http://define.com/Oct 17 11:58
phIRCe[2] - PHP: define - Manual | http://php.net/manual/en/function.define.phpOct 17 11:58
phIRCe[3] - define - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary | http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/defineOct 17 11:58
phIRCe[4] - Define Definition | Definition of Define at Dictionary.com | http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/defineOct 17 11:58
trmanco:|Oct 17 11:58
desulolOct 17 11:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] #beatcancer http://beatcancereverywhere.com/ http://is.gd/4nAcROct 17 11:58
phIRCeTitle: Join Us to #BeatCancer with Social Media .::. Size~: 6.11 KBOct 17 11:58
phIRCeTitle: Social Media Campaign to Beat Cancer Eyes Record in Guinness Book .::. Size~: 77.38 KBOct 17 11:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @picturecool Every year tens of thousands of albatross die from toxicity, and choking due to plastics and human waste http://bit.ly/kcv1oOct 17 12:00
phIRCeTitle: current work .::. Size~: 5.3 KBOct 17 12:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] OMG Fedora 12 KDE (Alpha) looks superb! It includes the gorgeous Air theme. It's booting terribly slow....Oct 17 12:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst Im sorry to hear it didn't work out. His loss.Oct 17 12:04
*_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellOct 17 12:08
_goblinhello all.Oct 17 12:10
trmancohelloOct 17 12:13
trmancoI wonder if there will ever be Qt php binding :-POct 17 12:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] What to do? I have a great interview/discussion with Indiana Gregg coming up (hopefully today) I hope you will support her and her work.Oct 17 12:13
trmancoLOLOct 17 12:14
trmancohttp://www.php-qt.org/Oct 17 12:14
phIRCeTitle: PHP-Qt Website .::. Size~: 6.59 KBOct 17 12:14
schestowitzhttp://www.prwatch.org/node/8616Oct 17 12:14
phIRCeTitle: This Is Going to Hurt: What Your Doctor Doesn't Say Can Cost You | Center for Media and Democracy .::. Size~: 29.79 KBOct 17 12:14
schestowitztrmanco: it's not newOct 17 12:14
trmanco!google php Qt bindings Oct 17 12:14
phIRCe[1] - PHP-Qt Website | http://www.php-qt.org/Oct 17 12:14
phIRCe[2] - PHP-Qt | http://www.ohloh.net/p/php-qtOct 17 12:14
phIRCe[3] - 'Thomas Moenicke <tm () php-qt ! org>' posts - MARC | http://lists.kde.org/%3Fa%3D118233526900011%26r%3D1%26w%3D2Oct 17 12:14
phIRCe[4] - PHP-Qt System Tray Icon Demo | http://cognifty.com/main.page/php-qt_system_tray_icon_demo.htmlOct 17 12:14
trmancocoolOct 17 12:14
schestowitzhttp://identi.ca/notice/12219803Oct 17 12:15
phIRCeTitle: Brett Smith (brettcsmith) 's status on Friday, 16-Oct-09 22:00:43 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 7.15 KBOct 17 12:15
schestowitzhttp://identi.ca/notice/12213817Oct 17 12:15
phIRCeTitle: Rodrigo Rodrigues da Silva (pitanga) 's status on Friday, 16-Oct-09 20:20:58 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 7.45 KBOct 17 12:15
schestowitz"Maddog: "Linux is the most used operating system in embedded systems". It's GNU/Linux, dude!"Oct 17 12:16
schestowitzGNU is not always used on embeddedOct 17 12:16
schestowitzIt's usually just LinuxOct 17 12:16
schestowitz"When I plug in my external HD to the !ubuntu !karmic beta the icon is an ipod. Why? Are we supporting DRM now?" http://identi.ca/notice/12098253Oct 17 12:17
phIRCeTitle: David Bailey (djbailey) 's status on Thursday, 15-Oct-09 11:08:01 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 7.49 KBOct 17 12:17
cubezzzI use GNU on embeddedOct 17 12:17
schestowitzhttp://www.thenation.com/doc/20091026/hayesOct 17 12:19
phIRCeTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 17 12:19
schestowitzcubezzz: some use a proprietary gnu-compatible toolchainOct 17 12:19
oiaohmEmbed complier is most likely something pgroup or intel complier releated because that thing can optimise.  Gcc 4.5.0 might change that.Oct 17 12:26
oiaohmbusybox instead of most of the gnu.org provided parts.Oct 17 12:26
oiaohmBasically Linux without gnu is most embed.  linux/busybox would be more correct.Oct 17 12:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @wikileaks YOU can stop more secret UK net/press gag orders. Sign this official No10 petition (quick) http://bit.ly/47HF0kOct 17 12:27
phIRCeTitle: Petition to: enshrine in law the absolute right of the media to report the proceedings of The House in full at all times. | Number10.gov.uk .::. Size~: 24.89 KBOct 17 12:27
oiaohmcubezzz: I guess you don't use gnu provide libc and gnu command line tools embeded I hope not.Oct 17 12:28
cubezzzI cross-compile then ftp it upOct 17 12:29
cubezzzarm-linux-gccOct 17 12:29
oiaohmMain reason gnu libc and commandline tools are huge compared to bussybox and some of the other replacement libc's.Oct 17 12:30
cubezzzI'm just porting stuff that I use, not everythingOct 17 12:30
oiaohmHave you played with busybox.Oct 17 12:31
cubezzzI still have some ancient version on thereOct 17 12:31
oiaohmhttp://www.fefe.de/dietlibc/ and like this for libc cubezzzOct 17 12:31
phIRCeTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 200 Coming Up .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 17 12:31
trmancololOct 17 12:32
oiaohmgnu libc has a lot of backwards compadiblity crap.Oct 17 12:32
trmancocoming up?Oct 17 12:32
oiaohmMulti casting server trmancoOct 17 12:33
trmancoso this is common?Oct 17 12:33
trmancoit is a 200 responseOct 17 12:33
trmancobut the coming up is weirdOct 17 12:33
cubezzz"/bin" is read only, so I can't seem to update anything in thereOct 17 12:34
trmancofixing it right nowOct 17 12:34
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oiaohmOk is a hack in some web servers trmancoOct 17 12:36
oiaohmhttp/1.1 200 + some message other than OK.Oct 17 12:37
oiaohmAnd most browser class it as damaged message and try again.Oct 17 12:37
oiaohmSo making another request at a more suitable time to multi cast hopefully.Oct 17 12:38
trmanco!quit phIRCeOct 17 12:38
*phIRCe has quit ("Exiting! phIRCe - I told you so! .::. http://bitbucket.org/trmanco/phirce/")Oct 17 12:38
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trmancohttp://www.fefe.de/dietlibc/Oct 17 12:38
phIRCeHello World!Oct 17 12:38
phIRCeTitle: diet libc - a libc optimized for small size .::. Size~: 12.58 KBOct 17 12:38
oiaohmYes the http standard left out try again latter.Oct 17 12:40
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection)Oct 17 12:42
trmancostupid hotmail junk filter is crapOct 17 12:47
trmancoit just won't learnOct 17 12:47
trmancohttp://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=GOOGOct 17 12:48
trmancogoog is on a highOct 17 12:48
*Eruaran (n=quassel@CPE-58-165-40-142.vic.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovellOct 17 12:53
EruaranhelloOct 17 12:53
oiaohmhttp://www.raiden.net/articles/linux_in_education_athens_schools/1/Oct 17 12:53
phIRCeTitle: Raiden's Realm: Linux in Education: Athens Schools .::. Size~: 32.76 KBOct 17 12:53
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schestowitzHey, EruaranOct 17 13:01
Eruaranh schestowitzOct 17 13:01
Eruaran*hiOct 17 13:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Listening to "love Surgery" by Gwar. Classic noise!Oct 17 13:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Hmmm, Lasagna, yummy :-P #lunchOct 17 13:08
schestowitzHehe.Oct 17 13:11
schestowitzI remember blogs about people's own meals.. not microbloggingOct 17 13:12
*kecskebak (n=kecskeba@dsl4E5CC885.pool.t-online.hu) has joined #boycottnovellOct 17 13:12
trmancololOct 17 13:12
schestowitzMissouri Continues Arresting Cyberbullies: Don't Be An Online Jerk In Missouri < http://techdirt.com/articles/20091016/0233556558.shtml >Oct 17 13:12
phIRCeTitle: Missouri Continues Arresting Cyberbullies: Don't Be An Online Jerk In Missouri | Techdirt .::. Size~: 63.57 KBOct 17 13:12
trmancohttps://edge.launchpad.net/~xxtjaxx/+archive/kdestuff/+packagesOct 17 13:14
phIRCeTitle: Launchpad .::. Size~: 16.79 KBOct 17 13:14
trmancowho want bangarang?Oct 17 13:14
*qsheets (n=qsheets@wikimedia/qsheets) has left #boycottnovellOct 17 13:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Why Ralph Lauren Photoshopped That Model So Skinny... It Thought She Was Fat... At 120 lbs" http://ping.fm/RGNATOct 17 13:14
phIRCeTitle: Why Ralph Lauren Photoshopped That Model So Skinny... It Thought She Was Fat... At 120 lbs | Techdirt .::. Size~: 99.51 KBOct 17 13:14
schestowitzhttp://www.publicknowledge.org/node/2698Oct 17 13:16
phIRCeTitle: Public Knowledge Tells FCC Movie Industry Plan for Set-Top Boxes Will Hurt Consumers | Public Knowledge .::. Size~: 20.56 KBOct 17 13:16
schestowitzhttp://www.octofinder.com/@/3a8d7de6bacdb9576579065cdef42845Oct 17 13:22
trmancostrange linkOct 17 13:23
trmancoI think it doesn't matchOct 17 13:23
trmancoyeah, it doesn'tOct 17 13:23
trmancothe '@' screws everythingOct 17 13:24
schestowitzhttp://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/windows_7/apple_may_try_to_crash_microsofts_windows_7_launch.html?kc=MWRSS02129TX1K0000535Oct 17 13:25
phIRCeTitle: Microsoft Watch - Windows 7 - Apple May Try to Crash Microsoft's Windows 7 Launch .::. Size~: 41.64 KBOct 17 13:25
schestowitzFrom Microsoft NickOct 17 13:26
schestowitzDiDiot is also back at it with Vista 7 boostingOct 17 13:26
schestowitzHilarious!Oct 17 13:26
trmanco!quit phIRCeOct 17 13:29
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phIRCeHello World!Oct 17 13:30
trmancohttp://www.octofinder.com/@/3a8d7de6bacdb9576579065cdef42845Oct 17 13:30
trmancowtfOct 17 13:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Phew,just did the special run with laptop in hand to get it to the power cable which is in another room, past kids toys and ironing piles...Oct 17 13:30
trmancohttp://google.com/@/lolOct 17 13:33
phIRCeTitle: 404 - Page Not Found .::. Size~: 8.83 KBOct 17 13:33
trmancoahOct 17 13:33
trmancoit works, that site is another one blocking my mini skynet :-POct 17 13:33
Eruaranskynet ehOct 17 13:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Testing this thing called Seesmic, looking good :>Oct 17 13:39
schestowitzhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzYxNg "So Ryan is still responsible for this work, but the lead designer for Unreal Tournament 3 has no idea "if or when" it will be completed. This is certainly different from earlier this year when Steve had told us "we certainly would love to see this completed.""Oct 17 13:46
phIRCeTitle: [Phoronix] Epic Games Changes Story, Unsure About UT3 Linux Future .::. Size~: 17.17 KBOct 17 13:46
schestowitzhttp://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9796399204.html?kc=rssOct 17 13:47
phIRCeTitle: Reviews praise Ubuntu 9.10, knock Ubuntu Moblin Remix .::. Size~: 43.43 KBOct 17 13:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Microsoft’s WinMo 6.5 – “bing” getting a poor response? http://tinyurl.com/yg2phhq #microsoft #windows #winmo #mobileOct 17 13:47
phIRCeTitle: Microsofts WinMo 6.5  bing getting a poor response? «  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 35.8 KBOct 17 13:47
Tallkenjesus, phIRCe spamming the chanOct 17 13:48
*MinceR bans jesus and phIRCe for spamming the channelOct 17 13:50
MinceR;)Oct 17 13:50
trmanco:|Oct 17 13:50
trmancospaming :(Oct 17 13:50
trmancopoor botan8rOct 17 13:50
trmancoit part of my mini skynetOct 17 13:50
EruaranMy response to Epic Games would be someting like this: 'As a former fan of the UT seriies of games, I just don't care anymore'Oct 17 13:51
Diablo-D3hehOct 17 13:52
Diablo-D3UT was never any good to begin with imoOct 17 13:52
EruaranI liked UT2004Oct 17 13:52
trmanconever played itOct 17 13:52
EruaranThe special edition with 5GB of modsOct 17 13:53
Eruaranthat was godOct 17 13:53
Eruaran*goodOct 17 13:53
MinceREruaran: seconded.Oct 17 13:59
MinceRtime to add all the features of UT, UT2004 and UT3 to one or more free FPS-es. :>Oct 17 14:00
EruaranI think its doableOct 17 14:01
EruaranNexuiz for example looks pretty good these days... except for character models, but they're working on thatOct 17 14:01
Diablo-D3http://vimcolorschemetest.googlecode.com/svn/html/index-c.htmlOct 17 14:02
phIRCeTitle: VIM Color Scheme Test - C - Sat Sep 26 16:32:23 2009 .::. Size~: 110.46 KBOct 17 14:02
EruaranGoogle Docs still doesn't like Konqueror.. but change Konq's ident to Firefox and Google Doc's works fineOct 17 14:07
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blt9_hy1di4Oct 17 14:09
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Chalmers Johnson Blowback .::. Size~: 111.79 KBOct 17 14:09
oiaohmI wish they would make up there mind on konqueror are we killing it or not.Oct 17 14:09
schestowitzHe's one of my favourite speakers on this subject. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wplniBUilts&NR=1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalmers_JohnsonOct 17 14:16
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Chalmers Johnson: The US Global Empire -1 .::. Size~: 131.38 KBOct 17 14:16
phIRCeTitle: Chalmers Johnson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 45.46 KBOct 17 14:16
Eruaranoiaohm: notOct 17 14:25
*kecskebak has quit ("Don't do anything I wouldn't do...")Oct 17 14:26
oiaohmkhtml is major mess EruaranOct 17 14:27
EruaranI'm not commenting on khtml... they're not abandoning Konqueror thoughOct 17 14:29
EruaranI expect they'll officially switch to webkit eventuallyOct 17 14:30
*DaemonFC (i=Ryan@69.245.242.208) has joined #boycottnovellOct 17 14:32
oiaohmThere is a major issue that Konqueror internal api is stuck to how html works EruaranOct 17 14:36
oiaohmIt may be simpler to kill it completely and start over clean EruaranOct 17 14:36
Eruaranperhaps you're rightOct 17 14:38
EruaranIt would be kind of sad if Konqueror died thoughOct 17 14:39
DaemonFCStargate Universe has yet to impress meOct 17 14:40
DaemonFCit looks like it may finally be going somewhere after three entire episodesOct 17 14:40
schestowitzDaemonFC: http://www.prwatch.org/node/8616Oct 17 14:42
phIRCeTitle: This Is Going to Hurt: What Your Doctor Doesn't Say Can Cost You | Center for Media and Democracy .::. Size~: 29.79 KBOct 17 14:42
DaemonFCso far they've devoted three one hour episodes to "We're on a starship several galaxies away from Earth and have no power and limited water and there are no stargates in range"Oct 17 14:42
DaemonFCNow they're on a collision course with a star because a million year old starship developed by the Alterans got the navigational calculations wrong when it used a gas giant for an aerobraking maneuver, and they might all be screwedOct 17 14:43
DaemonFCthen a big fat "To be continued"Oct 17 14:43
DaemonFC:POct 17 14:43
oiaohmmaybe not die EruaranOct 17 14:43
oiaohmIe konquerer 2 ie new one based on the old ones ideas bit like KDE 4.Oct 17 14:44
DaemonFCschestowitz: I just saved you three hours :DOct 17 14:44
Eruaranoiaohm: yes that would be goodOct 17 14:44
DaemonFCoh, and the funny scene where the lead scientist has a nervous breakdown after a few days with no sleep and wakes up with caffeine withdrawl Oct 17 14:44
DaemonFCI'm not really sure where they are going with this, but SG-1 and Atlantis started the story right away with the pilotOct 17 14:45
oiaohmStargate Universe sounds like they are going to get lost like DR Who.Oct 17 14:49
DaemonFCwell, people will quickly lose interest if they keep dragging the story out without telling a storyOct 17 14:51
Eruaran"Stop ! Or I'll destroy you all with one of my deadly Jellybabies !" - Dr Who (an improv by Tom Baker which ended up in an actual episode)Oct 17 14:52
EruaranActually... I think he said, "Back !" not "Stop !"Oct 17 14:52
DaemonFCapparently the Sci Fi channel is trying to make a series that sucks as bad as Dr. WhoOct 17 14:52
DaemonFCeven ruining SG-1 didn't bring it down to thatOct 17 14:53
EruaranDr Who doesn't suck, Dr Who rules.Oct 17 14:53
DaemonFCif you say soOct 17 14:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] so why *do* the young persons these days make the duckface in all their snapshots? http://antiduckface.com/Oct 17 14:54
phIRCeTitle: Stop Making That Duckface! .::. Size~: 31.41 KBOct 17 14:54
oiaohmDr Who has the most confusing story line.  Working out everything that is going on is a complex mess.Oct 17 14:55
EruaranClearly you have no appreciation for tongue in cheek sci-fi and time travellers who have a thing for Jellybabies.Oct 17 14:55
DaemonFCRed Dwarf was probably the best thing resembling Sci Fi that ever came out of the UKOct 17 14:56
DaemonFCthat's only cause it was so funnyOct 17 14:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @altally Baby Got Back Gilbert and Sullivan Style http://bit.ly/eoE2jOct 17 14:56
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Baby Got Back - Gilbert and Sullivan Style .::. Size~: 139.01 KBOct 17 14:56
EruaranKryton rules.Oct 17 14:57
DaemonFC"What a smeeeeeeg, what a smeeeeeeeeeeeg......What a smeeeeeeg heeeeeeeeeeed!!!!""Ketchup, on a LOBSTER?" BOOM!Oct 17 14:57
DaemonFCheheOct 17 14:57
oiaohmDaemonFC: at least DR Who series stories all link up and make sence in the end.Oct 17 14:58
EruaranTom Baker was my favorite Dr WhoOct 17 14:59
EruaranHe was the funniestOct 17 14:59
DaemonFCor that time they went back to Dallas in 1963 and stopped the Kennedy assassination and then accidentally jumped a few years ahead to find that everyone had fled the city cause of the Cuban Missile CrisisOct 17 14:59
DaemonFCKryton had his ethics routines removed so he'd agree to go back in time to get Lister a take out curry in the first place and cooks a trampled homeless man for them to eatOct 17 15:00
DaemonFC:DOct 17 15:00
DaemonFC"Well, I just assumed that since humans eat chickens, they must eat their own species, or else they would just be picking on the chickens"Oct 17 15:00
DaemonFC:)Oct 17 15:00
EruaranlolOct 17 15:01
EruaranLike I saidOct 17 15:01
EruaranKryton rules ;)Oct 17 15:01
DaemonFCRimmer fixed the time machine, "Where should we go?" Kat: "I don't care, as long as it's before we had dinner!"Oct 17 15:01
DaemonFC:POct 17 15:01
EruaranRimmerworldOct 17 15:01
DaemonFCthe one where everyone on the planet was RimmerOct 17 15:02
EruaranyesOct 17 15:02
DaemonFCincluding a Caligula-type RimmerOct 17 15:02
EruaranhahahaOct 17 15:02
DaemonFCin charge of the placeOct 17 15:02
Eruaranhilarious episodeOct 17 15:03
DaemonFCGazpacho SoupOct 17 15:03
DaemonFCyeah, I loved that showOct 17 15:03
DaemonFCI actually ate an extra spicy Chicken Vindaloo just to see if they were any goodOct 17 15:04
mutxwe get that in Aust all the time now.  Oct 17 15:04
Eruaran"They're all dead Dave, everybody's dead, they're all dead Dave"Oct 17 15:04
DaemonFCyes, they are, as you eat oneOct 17 15:04
DaemonFCyou'll be on the toilet for a few hours thoughOct 17 15:04
mutxLOL. Oct 17 15:05
DaemonFCit's like taking milk of magnesiaOct 17 15:06
EruaranMemorable scene: the one where Lister ends up kissing that disgusting bug thing because it made him think it was a hot chickOct 17 15:06
DaemonFCyour stomach starts rumbling and growling about 30 minutes laterOct 17 15:06
DaemonFCyou better get to the restroom quicklyOct 17 15:06
mutxsirensOct 17 15:06
EruaranyesOct 17 15:06
*_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat")Oct 17 15:06
DaemonFC"It's the weather girl from TV" Kryten: "Hurry up and get back to the ship!" Lister: "Eas for you to say, you can't see what she's doing with her pointy stick!"Oct 17 15:07
DaemonFC*EasyOct 17 15:07
oiaohmhttp://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/Chicken-Vindaloo-107088  Is not that bad DaemonFC maybe you are alergic to the one spice.Oct 17 15:07
MinceRthe spice must flow.Oct 17 15:08
oiaohmSome people are and if you are it was lucky it only went one direction.Oct 17 15:08
DaemonFCI played Dune 2000 and Emperor: Battle For DuneOct 17 15:09
DaemonFCusually as the HarkonnenOct 17 15:09
EruaranWhy the Harkonnen ?Oct 17 15:10
DaemonFCcause, I like the Harkonnen Oct 17 15:16
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DaemonFC:POct 17 15:16
*Eruaran adds this to your profileOct 17 15:16
Eruaran;Oct 17 15:16
DaemonFCI also play Jedi characters on Star Wars RPGs?Oct 17 15:17
DaemonFC:POct 17 15:17
DaemonFCI do prefer some Sith lighsaber forms though and almost always use a double bladed modelOct 17 15:18
EruaranI'd go with MaceOct 17 15:18
EruaranYou know why Mace had a purple lightsabre ?Oct 17 15:19
DaemonFChttp://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII:_Juyo_/_VaapadOct 17 15:19
phIRCeTitle: Form VII: Juyo / Vaapad - Wookieepedia, the Star Wars Wiki .::. Size~: 125.44 KBOct 17 15:19
DaemonFCno clueOct 17 15:19
DaemonFCJuyo uses more energy in attack than defenseOct 17 15:20
DaemonFCbut it forces your opponent to go on the defensive for obvious reasonsOct 17 15:20
EruaranSamuel L Jackson wanted to have a purple lightsabreOct 17 15:20
DaemonFCthe KOTOR games are funOct 17 15:21
DaemonFCyou should max out your beam deflection skill and then blaster wielding enemies can never hit youOct 17 15:21
EruaranHe asked George Lucas if he could have a purple lightsabre and GL said no... but when he got his prop lightsabre it was purpleOct 17 15:21
schestowitz[14:44] <DaemonFC> schestowitz: I just saved you three hours :DOct 17 15:24
schestowitzI don't quite follow.Oct 17 15:24
DaemonFCfigured you might attempt to watch itOct 17 15:28
XarverHi guys.Oct 17 15:28
XarverMy forum reached 1000 posts :DOct 17 15:28
MinceRbut did Lightsaber have a purple mace? :>Oct 17 15:29
DaemonFCspeaking of mace, I bought my mom a bottle of it to use on the neighbor's dogOct 17 15:30
DaemonFClolOct 17 15:30
MinceR:)Oct 17 15:30
DaemonFCher neighbors are a bunch of white trashOct 17 15:30
DaemonFCchain smokersOct 17 15:30
DaemonFCthey let that little annoying dog out and it nips and bites and claws people an they laugh about itOct 17 15:31
DaemonFCmaybe in a raspy smoker's voice "CANDACE MARIE!!! GET BACK HERE!!!"Oct 17 15:31
DaemonFCthe dog's name is Candace MarieOct 17 15:31
oiaohmPoor dogOct 17 15:31
Xarver:|Oct 17 15:32
DaemonFCI told my mom the next time the dog jumps up and ruins a uniform of hers, to just mace the thingOct 17 15:32
XarverO_oOct 17 15:32
DaemonFCthat'll teach it to get away from peopleOct 17 15:32
DaemonFCI about lost it the other dayOct 17 15:33
oiaohmJust don't go over board with the mace little bit too much will kill a small dog.Oct 17 15:33
DaemonFCI told that woman that the next time her dog nipped me it would be a footballOct 17 15:33
XarverOk then...Oct 17 15:33
XarverAnimal cruelty much? Why not sue?Oct 17 15:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @trmanco Yum, Lasagna, had it yesterday for lunch. Love Italian pasti. Make all sorts of variations of it.Oct 17 15:33
XarverlolOct 17 15:34
DaemonFCthe woman pokes her head out to make sure that nobody in my mom's apartment is outside before she lets her dog out nowOct 17 15:34
DaemonFCso I think she believed meOct 17 15:34
oiaohmcitronella is the better spray to use DaemonFCOct 17 15:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin Indiana Gregg, the singer http://www.indianagregg.com/ ?Oct 17 15:35
phIRCeTitle: Indiana Gregg .::. Size~: 28.34 KBOct 17 15:35
oiaohmWill not kill the dog but the dog does not like it.Oct 17 15:36
MinceRnah, as a football, the dog might finally be usefulOct 17 15:37
MinceRand have a purpose in lifeOct 17 15:37
oiaohmIts not the dog fault it has a bad master that never trained it.Oct 17 15:37
MinceRwell, after life, anywayOct 17 15:37
mutxare you allowed to discharge mace just "willy nearly" in the US, we are not even allowed to carry it here in OzOct 17 15:38
MinceRall dogs are evil and unpleasantOct 17 15:38
MinceRthat's 'willy-nilly' :>Oct 17 15:38
DaemonFCMinceR, Not all dogs are evil or unpleasantOct 17 15:38
oiaohmMinceR: I am a dog handler.Oct 17 15:38
mutxyes, I was thinking that as well :)Oct 17 15:38
DaemonFCbut a lot of the little "toy" breeds areOct 17 15:38
MinceRwell, dead ones aren't evil anymoreOct 17 15:38
oiaohmDogs are only as bad as there masters.Oct 17 15:38
DaemonFCthe bigger dogs tend to be more relaxedOct 17 15:39
DaemonFCless to prove I guessOct 17 15:39
MinceRexcept their masters are less likely to randomly attack people.Oct 17 15:39
oiaohmLot of the toy breeds can still be well behaved.Oct 17 15:39
MinceRbecause they know how they might be punished.Oct 17 15:39
oiaohmMinceR: Dogs don't randomally attack.Oct 17 15:39
MinceRyes they doOct 17 15:39
oiaohmNo they don't.Oct 17 15:39
MinceRpeople keep saying they wouldn't and then one day the dog attacksOct 17 15:39
MinceRand then they blame it on the victimOct 17 15:40
XarverHe just said he was a dog handler, MinceR O_oOct 17 15:40
MinceRXarver: and i've been attacked by dogs multiple times.Oct 17 15:40
MinceRand i've read the news.Oct 17 15:40
MinceRchildren often get badly mauled by dogsOct 17 15:40
MinceRthey aren't safe to keep in human society, so they shouldn't be.Oct 17 15:40
oiaohmDogs are either trained to attack or condutions happen causing an attack event.Oct 17 15:40
XarverWhat's the reason for attacking? Probably because you said they basically praised the dog for attacking.Oct 17 15:41
cubezzzI seem to recall a recent dog attack on an elderly couple in.... uhOct 17 15:41
MinceRyeah, let's blame it all on the conditionsOct 17 15:41
oiaohmDogs have a good set of teeth and one mistake log of damage.Oct 17 15:41
MinceRyou know what condition is to blame? the damn thing was allowed outside a cage, that's what.Oct 17 15:41
oiaohmLot of children cases are single bites.Oct 17 15:41
XarverThe only reason my dogs jump on me is they want to play, and I do. :)Oct 17 15:41
MinceRthey have a good set of teeth and no controls.Oct 17 15:42
oiaohmIe not a full blown attack.Oct 17 15:42
MinceRXarver: well, i don't think that clawing my clothing and my skin and getting their drool all over me is a good game, so i'd rather not "play".Oct 17 15:42
XarverMinceR: Dogs are just as bad as us, so why not throw humans in a cage? Just because there are rapists, murderers, etc.Oct 17 15:42
cubezzzGeorigaOct 17 15:42
MinceRoiaohm: let's put babies on the launch control panels of nukes then, one button press away from launching.Oct 17 15:42
MinceRthey're harmless, right?Oct 17 15:43
XarverI mean, not all of the dogs are to blame.Oct 17 15:43
cubezzzlol they do, put them in Jails :)Oct 17 15:43
MinceRXarver: i'd prefer to put most humans at least in cages, tooOct 17 15:43
MinceRbut it's usually cheaper to kill or not let them to be born.Oct 17 15:43
Xarvercubezzz: I know, but MinceR is saying to get rid of dogs in our society, and we're just as bad as them, so ALL of us need to go in a cage.Oct 17 15:43
MinceRdog owners tend to be exceptionally negligent when it comes to the life and health of other people.Oct 17 15:43
oiaohmMinceR: I worked with dogs breed for  cattle work.  They are some of the most touchy ones you can deal with.Oct 17 15:44
mutxany well raised dog, that like any human knows good from bad, none of my dogs have ever randomaly attacked anyone, or attacked even when provoked.Oct 17 15:44
oiaohmThey respond to pain with teeth.Oct 17 15:44
MinceRoiaohm: well, congratulations. i still shouldn't be forced to be around those monsters.Oct 17 15:44
Xarvermutx: exactly.Oct 17 15:44
cubezzzfound it:Oct 17 15:44
cubezzzhttp://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/2009/08/fatal-attack-in-georgia-kills-elderly-couple.htmlOct 17 15:44
MinceRmutx: there's no such thing as a "well raised dog", then.Oct 17 15:44
phIRCeTitle: KC DOG BLOG: Fatal Attack in Georgia kills elderly couple .::. Size~: 68.13 KBOct 17 15:44
MinceRthey have the worst combination of behavior learned from humans and instinct.Oct 17 15:45
XarverMinceR: There is, my dogs are well behaved, but they have some problems, just like everyone else.Oct 17 15:45
mutxmost dogs are well raised, all mine were, Oct 17 15:45
MinceRXarver: and those problems lead to people getting killed or mauled.Oct 17 15:45
XarverAnd they're not monsters, they're man's best friend.Oct 17 15:45
cubezzzThere's a couple of pretty mean guard dogs close by hereOct 17 15:45
cubezzzI wouldn't mess with themOct 17 15:45
XarverMinceR: Same point with badly raised humans.Oct 17 15:45
MinceRXarver: at least most humans understand that if they assault another human, they're likely to get in trouble for it.Oct 17 15:45
XarverMinceR: Same with most dogs, you are saying a biased opinion of most dogs are bad, when it's only a low number.Oct 17 15:46
oiaohmMinceR:  but does not make them bad..   There is such thing as well raised dogs.  But with anything with weapon capiblity comes responsablity.Oct 17 15:46
MinceRnormal weapons don't activate themselves randomlyOct 17 15:47
mutxneither do dogs, Oct 17 15:47
oiaohmLike I started dog handling at the age of 10.  Only alowned to do it one I knew how to physically contain a dog.Oct 17 15:47
MinceRXarver: i think they all have the danger of flipping out at some moment.Oct 17 15:47
XarverMinceR: And another reason to be attacking someone is needs, they need to eat and drink like us.Oct 17 15:47
MinceRbut then it will be too late.Oct 17 15:47
oiaohmAnd could do it.Oct 17 15:47
XarverMinceR: Not true.Oct 17 15:47
MinceRXarver: so if they need to eat, let's just feed them babies?Oct 17 15:47
oiaohmWell trained will not trigger over food.Oct 17 15:48
mutxoiaohm, I have a koolie, really smart.Oct 17 15:48
XarverMy old coyote (yes, coyote) was the nicest dog ever.Oct 17 15:48
MinceRdog owners are always biased.Oct 17 15:48
mutxhad*Oct 17 15:48
oiaohmBecause they are trained only to eat food they have been approved to eat.Oct 17 15:48
oiaohmanything else would have been internally laced in the train process.Oct 17 15:48
XarverMinceR: You are really biased. Feed them dog food, give them water, teach them not to do badOct 17 15:48
MinceRam i supposed to teach others' dogs now?Oct 17 15:49
MinceRlet me carry a gun then, i can offer a really fast training program.Oct 17 15:49
oiaohmIe master don't give food don't eat.Oct 17 15:49
oiaohmBecause it can be bad.Oct 17 15:49
XarverAnd you're saying dogs are bad when the Arabs before Islam buried female babies because they wanted males.Oct 17 15:49
MinceRi never said humans were good.Oct 17 15:50
XarverBut dogs are no worse.Oct 17 15:50
MinceRbut that's no excuse for letting dogs out and maul people.Oct 17 15:50
MinceRin a way they are.Oct 17 15:50
oiaohmNone of mine ever have MinceROct 17 15:50
XarverAgain with a bias. I doubt all dogs one day will just randomly attack someone.Oct 17 15:50
MinceRlike i said, they have absolutely no understanding of the fact that they can get into trouble for attacking people.Oct 17 15:50
oiaohmIn fact mine had saved my life a few times.Oct 17 15:50
MinceRnot if you keep them locked away or you kill them early enough.Oct 17 15:50
XarverMy parents have owned dogs for 13+ years and NEVER have had a problem.Oct 17 15:51
oiaohmWhen things had gone wrong in the cattle yards.Oct 17 15:51
oiaohmAt the cost to themselves.Oct 17 15:51
mutxMinceR no they certainly know, and can be shown good from bad, just like any person.Oct 17 15:51
XarverMinceR: Not true, as stated before. YOU can TEACH them not to. Just like how parents/teachers TEACH US how to be good.Oct 17 15:51
oiaohmSometimes you do need a thinking weapon.Oct 17 15:51
XarverAnd if the dog attacks you the owner is probably a bad dog owner.Oct 17 15:51
MinceRXarver: i'm not talking about how to be good -- most humans can't learn that. i'm talking about how not to attack randomly.Oct 17 15:52
MinceRand such training isn't mandatory, apparently.Oct 17 15:52
XarverThat's how to be good, they don't attack randomly.Oct 17 15:52
oiaohmSimple fact they don't attack randomly.Oct 17 15:52
mutxmost humans cant learn to be good ??Oct 17 15:52
MinceRXarver: i'd say if the owner doesn't keep the dog locked away, then he's a bad owner.Oct 17 15:52
EruaranWhat is your yardstick for "good" ?Oct 17 15:52
MinceRit's complicated.Oct 17 15:52
oiaohmMinceR: name the reasons a dog will attack.Oct 17 15:52
oiaohmNote they are mostly the same as humans.Oct 17 15:53
MinceRnormally it can be summed up as "don't treat others in a way you don't wish to be treated"Oct 17 15:53
MinceRoiaohm: sudden movesOct 17 15:53
MinceRoiaohm: reactions to the dog suddenly bark loudly 0.5m from a strangerOct 17 15:53
MinceRs/rk/rking/Oct 17 15:53
XarverMinceR: You're filling this argument with biased opinions, if you don't actually argue against the things we're saying, then there's no point of arguing with you.Oct 17 15:53
oiaohmsudden moves is panic.Oct 17 15:53
MinceRXarver: no, you are filling this argument with biased opinionsOct 17 15:53
oiaohmSame mistake a untrained person with a gun does.Oct 17 15:53
MinceRoiaohm: so you advocate killing that instinct in humans just so you can send your dogs among them?Oct 17 15:54
oiaohmIt is important to train dog MinceROct 17 15:54
XarverMinceR: How so? You are the one saying "dogs are evil, don't belong in human society, I'm getting attacked so everyone else is"Oct 17 15:54
oiaohmIe trained person mostly does not screw up with gun.  Same with trained dog with teeth.Oct 17 15:54
mutxyour initial argument is flawed from the start MinceR, dog's wont just attack you if you move fast.Oct 17 15:54
MinceRXarver: and you're the one saying "screw everyone's safety, i'll just let my dogs out and if they attack someone, it's the victim's fault"Oct 17 15:54
MinceRmutx: they won't just attack, they'll also bark and jump.Oct 17 15:55
XarverAnother biased opinion. How come I've NEVER had a problem in a BIG neighborhood for 13+ years?Oct 17 15:55
oiaohmAgain barking can be trained not to do.Oct 17 15:55
MinceRi have yet to see these mythical "well-trained dogs".Oct 17 15:55
mutxand jumping up, Oct 17 15:55
MinceRXarver: because you've ignored all the problems.Oct 17 15:55
XarverMinceR: You live in a bad area. Move or something.Oct 17 15:55
oiaohmYou have most likely MinceR guide dogs.Oct 17 15:55
MinceRXarver: i've had such incidents in many areas in this country.Oct 17 15:56
mutxnone of my dogs even did either, or if they did I trained them not too.Oct 17 15:56
XarverMinceR: Do you stalk me? I never see these things and never does the 20+ people who live around meOct 17 15:56
oiaohmThey are some of the most heavly trained dogs you will meet MinceROct 17 15:56
MinceRXarver: so you mean if i don't want to be mauled by dogs, i should move to a country where no dogs live?Oct 17 15:56
MinceRinteresting.Oct 17 15:56
XarverUgh, screw this conversation.Oct 17 15:56
oiaohmMinceR: have you ever head of a guide dog harming anyone .Oct 17 15:56
MinceRlet's just put everyone into the service of biased, irresponsible dog owners!Oct 17 15:56
oiaohmhead/heardOct 17 15:56
oiaohmAnswer is they never have MinceROct 17 15:57
MinceRalso, let's put mines on every corner and tell people not to step on themOct 17 15:57
mutxMinceR if you never want to be killed by a person, perhaps you better go to a country with no people, or snakes, or spiders, or fly's or anything else that might threaten your life.Oct 17 15:57
MinceRif they do, it's their own damn fault, right?Oct 17 15:57
XarverMinceR: Are you drunk? Just wondering.Oct 17 15:57
oiaohmI do blieve that not everyone should be allowed dogs MinceROct 17 15:57
MinceRmutx: i'd settle for no people threatening my life with their irresponsibilityOct 17 15:57
oiaohmSome people just will never make suitable owners.Oct 17 15:57
MinceRXarver: no, i'm just sane, unlike you.Oct 17 15:57
oiaohmAnd some people just will not put the time in to train dog right.Oct 17 15:58
XarverParanoid in my eyes.Oct 17 15:58
MinceRXarver: you seem to be incapable of acting responsibly.Oct 17 15:58
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oiaohmCurrent lack of control on dog owners is a major part of the problem MinceROct 17 15:58
XarverMinceR: Or maybe you should move to the moon?Oct 17 15:58
MinceReveryone in the world should just adapt to you so you can parade around with your monsters.Oct 17 15:58
MinceRXarver: i think you should move to the moon. along with your dogs.Oct 17 15:58
oiaohmMinceR: dogs are not monstorsOct 17 15:58
MinceRoiaohm: yes they areOct 17 15:58
oiaohmNo they are not MinceROct 17 15:59
Xarverprove it without biased opinions. FACTS.Oct 17 15:59
oiaohmA dog can protect as well as harm.Oct 17 15:59
oiaohmguide dogs and hearing dogs do lot of protection of owners.Oct 17 15:59
XarverEVERYTHING you are saying INVOLVES no FACTS.Oct 17 15:59
MinceRwell, i've never seen any dog protecting meOct 17 15:59
Xarver:POct 17 15:59
MinceRXarver: tell that to yourself.Oct 17 16:00
XarverHow am I providing opinions when youOct 17 16:00
oiaohmThe highly trained dogs for any other task other than attack of some form don't have any track record of biting humans MinceR.Oct 17 16:00
oiaohmWorking with cattle working dogs you have to be really careful because they are a form of trained attack dog.Oct 17 16:00
Xarverare saying "move to the moon with all your monsters" "Put them in cages!" "It's the dog's fault!" "Everyone is wrong except ME!"Oct 17 16:01
Xarver"No, they are all mosters, oiaohm, even though you are a dog holder, all dogs are monsters and should DIE because I'm getting attacked"Oct 17 16:02
MinceRXarver: and you're saying "i've never had any problem with my dog so they must all be harmless and i must be allowed to push my dog in the face of anyone, and if the dog attacks, it's the victim's fault"Oct 17 16:02
XarverI never said the last part./Oct 17 16:02
MinceRXarver: and you told me to move to the moon firstOct 17 16:02
oiaohmEver case I have seen of dog attacks the dogs have not been highly trianed other than a few rare attack dogs biting once human once and stoping.Oct 17 16:02
MinceRXarver: and before that, you told me to leave the country.Oct 17 16:02
*P|scean is more of a cat person.Oct 17 16:02
MinceRXarver: and now you're acting as if you didn't.Oct 17 16:02
oiaohmIts the poorly trained that bite people mult times and normally end up killing people MinceROct 17 16:03
Xarveryes, because you are paranoid over "dangerous monsters."Oct 17 16:03
MinceRoiaohm: it's easy to say afterwards that "oh, this dog mustn't have been properly trained, then"Oct 17 16:03
XarverMinceR: And you never responded to the guide dogs.Oct 17 16:03
mutxMinceR if you cant deal with your environment, and other creatures that inhabit it, you have some issues.Oct 17 16:03
MinceRXarver: after a few bites suffered, you can't seriously tell me i'm "paranoid"Oct 17 16:03
oiaohmNo proper training has a log book MinceROct 17 16:03
MinceRXarver: learning from experience isn't called paranoia.Oct 17 16:03
oiaohmSo if dog does something wrong future dogs can be trained without the mistake.Oct 17 16:04
XarverMinceR: I am learning from experience with 13+ years, I'm sure you haven't been bitten that long.Oct 17 16:04
MinceRXarver: if you think it does, you're refusing to learn, which means you're stupid.Oct 17 16:04
XarverMinceR: Tell that to yourself, "YOU ARE WRONG oiaohm!"Oct 17 16:04
MinceRi've been attacked this year, but i could avoid the biteOct 17 16:04
oiaohmOf course as dog handlers we want to know of any case were a dog bites a human.Oct 17 16:04
XarverSue damnit! SUE!Oct 17 16:04
XarverIt's the owner's fault.Oct 17 16:04
MinceRXarver: i very rarely see guide dogs at allOct 17 16:04
MinceRXarver: this isn't the USA, i don't have a team of lawyersOct 17 16:05
oiaohmIncluding cases where its poor training.Oct 17 16:05
MinceRneither do i have the thousands of euros i'd need if i wanted to sue all the irresponsible assholes who caused harm to me.Oct 17 16:05
oiaohmThe data you learn when training dogs is massive to do it correctly.Oct 17 16:05
MinceRalso, i don't have a camera crew to collect evidenceOct 17 16:05
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XarverMy neighbor who has had dogs for a LONG time maybe 18+ years, has never had a problem with mauling, and he well trained his dogs and they were very behaved.Oct 17 16:06
mutxthe taiming of dogs, was one if not the most significant bonus to the development of mankind.Oct 17 16:06
XarverYu;.Oct 17 16:06
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XarverYup*Oct 17 16:06
oiaohmSimple fact is over 400 A4 pages of base information  MinceR.  Now how many people with dogs have even read it.Oct 17 16:06
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MinceRoiaohm: yet they're allowed to take their dogs to public space.Oct 17 16:06
oiaohmMy issue is not exactly with the dog MinceROct 17 16:07
XarverWithout the training of dogs, we would have WILD dogs going around and killing more then today, and blind people would have a disadvantage.Oct 17 16:07
MinceRXarver: wrong.Oct 17 16:07
oiaohmLot of people like you MinceR exist because people don't train dogs and can have dogs for nothing.Oct 17 16:07
MinceRXarver: without the training/taming of dogs, we'd have wolves living in the wilderness, and no dogs.Oct 17 16:07
XarverAgreed.Oct 17 16:07
mutxdogs, are genitacilly the same as WolvesOct 17 16:07
MinceRwolves behave like proper wild animals and don't normally even go near human society.Oct 17 16:08
oiaohmThat just is MinceR Most people have half trained Wolves not will trained dogs.Oct 17 16:08
MinceRalso, they're a lot more predictable.Oct 17 16:08
oiaohmwill/wellOct 17 16:08
XarverMinceR: Well, you can argue all you want, but trust me, you won't change anything, and your still going to have the same problem.Oct 17 16:08
oiaohmHow many people make there dogs only eat when told.Oct 17 16:09
MinceRi know, i can argue all i want, and i'll still have to look out for irresponsible people walking around with their monsters.Oct 17 16:09
cubezzzI saw a fox the other day :)Oct 17 16:09
MinceRand i'm not legally allowed to carry a gun with which to defend myself.Oct 17 16:09
XarverMinceR: I would love to see you sitting on a bench next to someone with their dog.Oct 17 16:09
oiaohmYet people like me walking with a dog would not be a risk to you MinceROct 17 16:09
MinceRit's a strange society where only the most dangerous weapons are allowed for the general public.Oct 17 16:09
mutxguard, blind, disabled, corpse finding, avalanche and desaster help, companion, helper, hunter, finder... dogs do huge good for humans.Oct 17 16:09
XarverExactly.Oct 17 16:10
oiaohmNote if my dog is a attack class in public it wears a mussle or equal to prevent biting.Oct 17 16:10
MinceRXarver: well, i'd love to see you being eaten by a dog, then.Oct 17 16:10
oiaohmI don't take risks with them MinceROct 17 16:10
XarverWhich will never happen.Oct 17 16:10
MinceRXarver: keep telling yourself that.Oct 17 16:10
cubezzzguide dogs are goodOct 17 16:10
oiaohmSame with hearing dogs.Oct 17 16:10
XarverOk, MinceR, then I'll tell you when i get eaten, OK?Oct 17 16:11
oiaohmThey are trained to be safe.Oct 17 16:11
XarverWhich will not happen.Oct 17 16:11
mutxsmelling cancer !Oct 17 16:11
MinceRXarver: sure, i wonder how you will.Oct 17 16:11
oiaohmThere training is also tested.Oct 17 16:11
MinceRXarver: will you speak with your missing throat or will you type with your missing fingers?Oct 17 16:11
XarverMinceR: My parents.Oct 17 16:11
MinceRif they'll be alive and near you, that is.Oct 17 16:11
cubezzzI have to be honest, I've never been attacked by a dogOct 17 16:11
mutxand that happens all the time too MinceR :)Oct 17 16:11
cubezzzthey growl at me, but no attackOct 17 16:11
oiaohmMinceR: a correct owner like me is never a problem to anyone.  We take responsablity for the weapons our dogs have.Oct 17 16:12
XarverLol you are funny, I think you belong in once of those bouncy rooms where you're fed and not brung into the outside world.Oct 17 16:12
MinceRlooks like the dog fans didn't check the link someone posted earlier. :>Oct 17 16:12
MinceRXarver: yeah, everyone who doesn't love your dogs belongs there, don't they?Oct 17 16:12
oiaohmMinceR: I did.Oct 17 16:12
MinceRXarver: after all, the whole of society must serve your hobby!Oct 17 16:12
XarverMinceR: No one hates my dogs.Oct 17 16:12
MinceRXarver: i do.Oct 17 16:12
XarverMinceR: You're not my neighbor.Oct 17 16:12
cubezzzI like some dogs, I like Saint Bernards :)Oct 17 16:13
MinceRi don't see why is it so important to take your dog outside your private property anyway.Oct 17 16:13
MinceRshowing off or what?Oct 17 16:13
mutxso on all the internet you can find a few examples where dogs attacked, so what, we are not saying dogs do not attack people, they do, we are saying that dogs well raised, and properaly trained DO NOT attack people, randomly or not. ever.Oct 17 16:13
MinceRor just the enjoyment of endangering innocent people?Oct 17 16:13
cubezzzMinceR, probably just for exercise I would thinkOct 17 16:13
XarverMinceR: to play with your dog in a dog park, meet new people, etc.Oct 17 16:13
Xarvermutx: EXACTLY.Oct 17 16:13
oiaohmI have had many dogs of different rolls  MinceROct 17 16:13
XarverWell said.Oct 17 16:13
MinceRmutx: and i'm saying that by that definition there are no "properly trained" dogs because some instincts always remainOct 17 16:14
XarverMinceR: Same with humands.Oct 17 16:14
Xarverhumans*Oct 17 16:14
MinceRcubezzz: they could just buy a big enough property and exercise there, responsibly.Oct 17 16:14
MinceRXarver: humans don't come with big teeth and clawsOct 17 16:14
oiaohmMinceR: Not exactly true.  DNA of dogs also sets there instincts.Oct 17 16:14
MinceRXarver: nor with instincts to jump and maul.Oct 17 16:14
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XarverWe're monsters to many other things. Animals hate us, most likely, except domesticated ones.Oct 17 16:14
oiaohmNot all dogs will jump or maul.Oct 17 16:14
MinceRXarver: nor with a lack of understanding of the rules of societyOct 17 16:14
oiaohmSaint's are a clasic example of it.Oct 17 16:15
XarverMinceR: Well, we have guns and chainsaws for example, we can kill anyone basically.Oct 17 16:15
oiaohmOk if you don't want holes don't hae a SaintOct 17 16:15
MinceRXarver: i don't have guns nor chainsawsOct 17 16:15
MinceRand if i were to walk on the street with a gun, i'd be arrestedOct 17 16:15
XarverMinceR: You said you would shoot the dog.Oct 17 16:15
MinceRbut if you walk on the street with a dog, you're not bothered.Oct 17 16:15
XarverWhich I laugh at.Oct 17 16:15
oiaohmMinceR:  Some breeds have never bitten anyone.Oct 17 16:16
MinceRXarver: if i could, i would. though i'd have to shoot any dogs on sight because otherwise there might not be enough time to act.Oct 17 16:16
XarverBecause they're not dangerous if taught, and if they bite anyone you can get sued and it has to have a muzzle.Oct 17 16:16
MinceRoiaohm: must be very rare reeds.Oct 17 16:16
oiaohmThey simply don't use there teeth that way.Oct 17 16:16
MinceRs/ree/bree/Oct 17 16:16
MinceRoiaohm: they use their claws, then?Oct 17 16:16
oiaohmNot exactly rare.Oct 17 16:16
oiaohmSaint lived with monks for a long time basically any dog with attack nature got killed out there dna.Oct 17 16:17
XarverMinceR: ANY dog that bites someone publicly HAS to have a muzzle no matter what.Oct 17 16:17
MinceRdogs also seem to just have to establish dominance over everyone.Oct 17 16:17
oiaohmYou cannot turn a saint into an attack dog.Oct 17 16:17
MinceRwhich obviously means trying to intimidate, and attacking.Oct 17 16:17
oiaohmIts just not in there nature.Oct 17 16:17
oiaohmOk they will lick you to death.Oct 17 16:17
XarverAnd my neighbors own a usually vicious dog breed, and lots of insurance don't cover them. She's one of the nicest dogs I know, and she's fun to play with.Oct 17 16:17
oiaohmNot bite.Oct 17 16:18
XarverIf I lay on the ground my dog will lick me, it's hilarious. :DOct 17 16:18
MinceRXarver: which i'm sure will extend infinitely into the future.Oct 17 16:18
oiaohmGuide dogs are also DNA sorted.Oct 17 16:18
MinceRand i'm sure it will make the victims feel nice.Oct 17 16:18
oiaohmTraining a dog is not only about the training.Oct 17 16:19
MinceRi don't really like being licked by a dogOct 17 16:19
Xarverlol. They've had the dog for 2 years.Oct 17 16:19
oiaohmIts about the dogs DNA nature.Oct 17 16:19
MinceRwow, 2 years must be enough for everything!Oct 17 16:19
oiaohmYou cannot make a dog be something there DNA nature does not allow.Oct 17 16:19
MinceRoiaohm: where's the proof of their DNA not allowing such things?Oct 17 16:19
XarverMinceR: Well, once you go over to meet someone and they have a dog and you call it monster, they'll think you're crazy.Oct 17 16:19
MinceRi've already been bitten by the dog of someone i've went over to meet.Oct 17 16:20
XarverMinceR: All of our mom's and dad's traits are inherited.Oct 17 16:20
oiaohmBlood lines the traits are passed down dog blood lines.Oct 17 16:20
XarverThey were a bad owner then.Oct 17 16:20
MinceRXarver: nope. things that are learned are rarely inheritedOct 17 16:20
MinceRXarver: and only 2 copies of every gene can be retained.Oct 17 16:20
MinceRXarver: well, it's easy to say that someone was a bad owner after the factOct 17 16:21
XarverI inherited my intellect from my father, and I'm very young.Oct 17 16:21
oiaohmEven clone dogs have close to the same natures.Oct 17 16:21
MinceRwon't make anything more safe.Oct 17 16:21
Xarveroiaohm: I don't think we should argue a debate that's going no where.Oct 17 16:21
MinceRindeed.Oct 17 16:22
mutxif you get a good natured dog, and you train it and treat it well, it will not even know how to attack, they can and do often live their entire lives without any agression.Oct 17 16:22
oiaohmMinceR: DNA side of it from the cloning of dogs is known.Oct 17 16:22
MinceRyou'll always defend your monsters, no matter what.Oct 17 16:22
MinceRand i'll be legally barred from defending myself for a long time.Oct 17 16:22
XarverAnd you'll always complain about nature's faults.Oct 17 16:22
MinceRthis isn't nature's fault, this is human's faultOct 17 16:22
MinceRbblOct 17 16:22
XarverThank god.Oct 17 16:23
oiaohmNow people internally breading agreesive dogs should be killed.Oct 17 16:23
oiaohmYes there are some breeders out there that dont' care when it comes to breeding the toy breeds.Oct 17 16:23
mutxyes, designer dogs, are bad for genitic diversity. Oct 17 16:24
mutxthey get alot of problemsOct 17 16:24
oiaohmIncluding major personallity problems.Oct 17 16:24
mutxyesOct 17 16:24
oiaohmThe thing MinceR does not understand is that I have been badly bitten.  Not by my dogs.Oct 17 16:25
mutxIve been attacked by a Lion !!Oct 17 16:26
oiaohmOnly reason I got away with 3 bites is that I killed the dogs with my bare hands.Oct 17 16:26
mutxcub*Oct 17 16:26
oiaohmStupid people and keeping a pack of non trained dogs.Oct 17 16:26
oiaohmI was got to sort the mess out.Oct 17 16:26
mutxand not becoming the top dogOct 17 16:27
oiaohmThe dogs were top dog.Oct 17 16:27
oiaohmI was not quite aware how out of control it has got.Oct 17 16:27
oiaohmAll they told me is they could not get into house.  Would have been nice if they had told me the dogs had already bitten one of them.Oct 17 16:28
oiaohmYes after a dog that is not trained has bitten someone the game has changed massively.Oct 17 16:28
oiaohmEver since I put on full body armor when dealing with dogs I don't know.Oct 17 16:29
mutxoiaohm, as you know, dogs really want to please you, it's just making sure you get them to understand what you want from them. show them how to be good, and feed them and they will love and obey you forever :)Oct 17 16:30
oiaohmIts not exactly that simple. mutxOct 17 16:30
oiaohmif dog has a bad DNA personality you are better off to put the dog down.  its less risk to you and normally better for the dog.Oct 17 16:31
trmancohttp://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Microsoft-has-known-of-the-SMB2-hole-for-some-time-832175.htmlOct 17 16:31
phIRCeTitle: Microsoft has known of the SMB2 hole for some time - The H Security: News and Features .::. Size~: 27.12 KBOct 17 16:31
mutxsure there are breeds that have been bread for agressiveness, you just dont get one of them, there are dogs bread for just about everything, Oct 17 16:32
oiaohmNot exactly agressiveness.Oct 17 16:32
oiaohmWorking dogs are breed to use there teeth defensively.Oct 17 16:33
mutxlike fighting dogs, which are illegal.Oct 17 16:33
oiaohmFighting dogs are pure danger to everyone.Oct 17 16:33
oiaohmHandlers other dogs other humans.Oct 17 16:33
oiaohmCats.Oct 17 16:33
oiaohmI still like being asked once how to deal with 20 fighting dogs on a property.  They took shock horror when I said just shot the lot in there cages.Oct 17 16:34
mutxsure, and working dogs, you are right, they use agression, but they are working to please their owner, and they are shot if they start biting and killing the chooks.Oct 17 16:34
oiaohmGood working dogs is not agreesion mutxOct 17 16:35
mutxyes, thats rightOct 17 16:35
oiaohmThey are going to be harmed its is defensive.Oct 17 16:35
oiaohmAnd they are born like that.Oct 17 16:35
oiaohmYou hurt them they will bite without thinking.Oct 17 16:35
mutxyes, my koolie was like that, not agressive at all, but great on a farm.Oct 17 16:35
oiaohmWhen you take them in public a musle is recommend.Oct 17 16:36
oiaohmYou can never trust humans not to step on a paw or something.Oct 17 16:36
mutxyes, trueOct 17 16:36
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oiaohmThat is owner responabilty.Oct 17 16:36
mutxmy dogs would squeel and start to nip, but they would never connect.Oct 17 16:37
oiaohmNever say never.Oct 17 16:37
oiaohmIf the pain is large enough dog will completely bite without thinking.Oct 17 16:37
mutxwell, they are dead now, lived a full long life, so I can say never Oct 17 16:37
oiaohmIf you get another one.Oct 17 16:37
oiaohmIts responsable owner ship you have to think how the dog could respond and protect dog from making mistake that you and the dog will regret.Oct 17 16:38
mutxofcourse, and when you're training them not to bite, you usually are bitten, but if any of my dogs ever bit me or anyone else I would put them down, and I have not had to do that yet.Oct 17 16:38
oiaohmI have trained guard dogs as well.Oct 17 16:39
oiaohmThe kinds of dogs that bring down humans.Oct 17 16:39
mutxmy dogs where trained not to even ever run up to someone, because it scares some people, they would walk up slowly and sit in front of people, Oct 17 16:39
oiaohmMost supprising thing you don't want a dog that will natrually bite to do that.Oct 17 16:39
oiaohmYou want a dog that will grip.Oct 17 16:40
oiaohmMost fun dog I had was perfectly lick to death dog.Oct 17 16:41
oiaohmBut would play act to be fully agressive.Oct 17 16:41
oiaohmgrow hair standing up the works.Oct 17 16:41
oiaohmgrow/growlOct 17 16:41
mutxthey seem to like that game I know mine did as well.Oct 17 16:41
oiaohmdid it like mirrors as well for prac to get it perfect.Oct 17 16:42
oiaohmYes its a funny seen seeing a dog stand in front of mirror pracing looks.Oct 17 16:42
mutxLOLOct 17 16:43
trmancohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5MTMv2aTjw&feature=player_embeddedOct 17 16:43
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - CryEngine 3 - Beauty Speed Interaction .::. Size~: 109.15 KBOct 17 16:43
trmancoLinux need a 3d engine like thisOct 17 16:43
trmanco...Oct 17 16:43
mutx"you lookin at me!!"Oct 17 16:43
trmanconeeds*Oct 17 16:43
oiaohmSorry to say so far I am not that impressed with it trmancoOct 17 16:46
trmancoyou shouldOct 17 16:47
oiaohmI have been playing with the blender development branch.Oct 17 16:47
trmancoyou should have played a game with cryengine 2Oct 17 16:47
trmancoit's the closest thing to realityOct 17 16:47
trmancothere is a opengl one, I can't remember the name now, phoronix covered itOct 17 16:47
trmancowhich looks also pretty goodOct 17 16:48
trmancohttp://vis.cs.ucdavis.edu/~ogawa/codeswarm/Oct 17 16:48
phIRCeTitle: OpenDNS .::. Size~: 1.97 KBOct 17 16:48
trmancomehOct 17 16:48
oiaohmBlender engine is acceleration lacking.Oct 17 16:48
oiaohmEffect wise equal.Oct 17 16:48
oiaohmTo be correct blender ahead.Oct 17 16:48
oiaohmits just having big enough video cards to do blenders water.Oct 17 16:49
trmancothere areOct 17 16:49
trmancothe are just a bit pricey Oct 17 16:49
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oiaohmWater that moves exactly like real water.Oct 17 16:50
oiaohmEven sounds like real water trmancoOct 17 16:50
oiaohmYes sound generated from the envorment.Oct 17 16:50
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trmancothe gaming industry has perfected water tooOct 17 16:50
trmancoValve's source engine is an exampleOct 17 16:51
oiaohmThe sound genretionOct 17 16:51
oiaohmIs only in blender.Oct 17 16:51
trmancoIMO, the Source engine's water look a bit better than Cryengine's in some casesOct 17 16:51
Diablo-D3you know what water looks good?Oct 17 16:51
trmancolooks*Oct 17 16:51
Diablo-D3nexuiz'sOct 17 16:51
oiaohmNexuiz is fake water.Oct 17 16:52
trmancoI think cube 2 had good looking water tooOct 17 16:52
Diablo-D3I still like itOct 17 16:52
oiaohmBut is well done fake.Oct 17 16:52
Diablo-D3especially in that one FFA mapOct 17 16:52
oiaohmcube 2 is also fake.Oct 17 16:52
Diablo-D3the one that its raining in Oct 17 16:52
oiaohmBlender engine is true 3d movie.Oct 17 16:53
oiaohmIssue with it is pure speed.  Currently that is being addressed.Oct 17 16:53
oiaohmhttp://vimeo.com/6997538   This is also nice in the blenders engine.Oct 17 16:55
phIRCeTitle: Durian Fire on Vimeo .::. Size~: 56.95 KBOct 17 16:55
trmanconot badOct 17 16:58
oiaohmThat is only first prototype.Oct 17 17:00
oiaohmby end of movie they are planing to light a full virtual city up trmancoOct 17 17:00
oiaohmYes before end of year.Oct 17 17:00
schestowitzThey make games too at Blender, sort ofOct 17 17:04
oiaohmhttp://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Source/Blender/Architecture/External_Engine_Interface  Also the blender guys have worked that not every engine will do everything.Oct 17 17:04
phIRCeTitle: Dev:Source/Blender/Architecture/External Engine Interface - BlenderWiki .::. Size~: 27.58 KBOct 17 17:05
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oiaohmschestowitz: bullet going opencl + other sections of blender game engine going the same is seeing it more suitable for game.Oct 17 17:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @glynmoody “Open Core” Is the New Shareware - http://ur1.ca/dt7t great analysis, with which I largely agree #opencore #sharewareOct 17 17:05
phIRCeTitle: &ldquo;Open Core&rdquo; Is the New Shareware - Bradley M. Kuhn ( Brad ) ( bkuhn ) .::. Size~: 20.11 KBOct 17 17:05
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trmancohttp://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=1073Oct 17 17:09
phIRCeTitle: The Linux Mint Blog  » Blog Archive   » Windows license refund donated to Mint .::. Size~: 18.11 KBOct 17 17:09
oiaohmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc9JWYuUa2o  This is a older blender realtime trmancoOct 17 17:10
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Blender Game Engine: Bathroom demo .::. Size~: 136.02 KBOct 17 17:10
trmancoit's pretty neatOct 17 17:12
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oiaohmThink that is the older one.Oct 17 17:13
oiaohmThat is pure CPU no major GPU assistance trmancoOct 17 17:13
oiaohmBasically we are going to have lot of decent 3d engines with really decent edit tools.Oct 17 17:14
trmancothen it is an incredible thingOct 17 17:14
oiaohmAlso blender also support video textures in the game engine.Oct 17 17:16
oiaohmSo yes a TV in a game could be really playing tv.Oct 17 17:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] RT @mashable: http://bit.ly/1SfxlK <-- eBay/Paypal & MillerCoors are donating $0.01 every time you mention #beatcancer today. Pls RT!Oct 17 17:16
phIRCeTitle: Social Media Campaign to Beat Cancer Eyes Record in Guinness Book .::. Size~: 80.46 KBOct 17 17:16
trmancohttp://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139471/Programmer_slip_up_produces_critical_bug_Microsoft_admits?source=rss_newsOct 17 17:18
phIRCeTitle:  Programmer slip-up produces critical bug, Microsoft admits .::. Size~: 136.12 KBOct 17 17:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Monash University migrates 58,000 students to Gmail: http://is.gd/4nQ75Oct 17 17:19
phIRCeTitle: Monash University migrates 58,000 students to Gmail - gmail, Google, live@edu, Monash University - Techworld .::. Size~: 58.9 KBOct 17 17:20
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Burgers…check… http://bit.ly/cbX9UOct 17 17:27
phIRCeTitle: Burgers&check& « Lolcats n Funny Pictures of Cats  I Can Has Cheezburger? .::. Size~: 146.86 KBOct 17 17:27
schestowitzGoogle Mail is not good news, eitherOct 17 17:39
schestowitzUniversities should host their own mailOct 17 17:39
schestowitzThey become some sort of attachment to companies, to whom they give young people who already pay tuition fees. There's no excuse to not running mail locally.Oct 17 17:39
MinceRindeedOct 17 17:40
MinceRespecially universities that have IT coursesOct 17 17:41
schestowitzhttp://fscons.org/node/56Oct 17 17:42
phIRCeTitle: Street Maths | FSCONS.org .::. Size~: 8.67 KBOct 17 17:42
schestowitzhttp://heresycorner.blogspot.com/2009/10/bca-libels-itself.htmlOct 17 17:42
phIRCeTitle: Heresy Corner: BCA libels itself .::. Size~: 144.05 KBOct 17 17:42
schestowitzhttp://heresycorner.blogspot.com/2009/10/bca-libels-itself.htmlOct 17 17:43
phIRCeTitle: Heresy Corner: BCA libels itself .::. Size~: 144.05 KBOct 17 17:43
trmancoyesOct 17 17:44
trmancobut would it be better if it were in microsoft's hands?Oct 17 17:44
schestowitzhttp://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=13210Oct 17 17:45
phIRCeTitle: Digital Arts .::. Size~: 40.54 KBOct 17 17:45
schestowitz:-)Oct 17 17:45
schestowitzhttp://jackofkent.blogspot.com/2009/10/bca-defame-simon-singh.htmlOct 17 17:45
phIRCeTitle: Jack of Kent: BCA Defame Simon Singh .::. Size~: 98.71 KBOct 17 17:45
schestowitzhttp://cordis.europa.eu/fetch?CALLER=FP7_PROJ_EN&ACTION=D&DOC=4&CAT=PROJ&QUERY=011f30e52539:b685:00e1e967&RCN=89374Oct 17 17:46
phIRCeTitle: European Commission: CORDIS: FP7 : Find project .::. Size~: 17.48 KBOct 17 17:46
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schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/14/45th_mersenne_prime_verified_revelaed/Oct 17 17:50
phIRCeTitle: 45th Mersenne prime revealed • The Register .::. Size~: 22.19 KBOct 17 17:50
schestowitz"Number porn lovers rejoice! The most ridiculously long prime number ever discovered has been verified and revealed in all its 12-million-digit glory."Oct 17 17:50
schestowitz Kew seed bank has 10% of all plants – and counting http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20427303.200-kew-seed-bank-has-10-of-all-plants--and-counting.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-newsOct 17 17:54
phIRCeTitle: Kew seed bank has 10% of all plants – and counting - life - 15 October 2009 - New Scientist .::. Size~: 60.65 KBOct 17 17:54
schestowitzhttp://mashable.com/2009/10/15/google-earnings-3/Oct 17 17:59
phIRCeTitle: Google’s War Chest: Search Giant Now Has $22 Billion in Cash .::. Size~: 78.75 KBOct 17 17:59
schestowitzhttp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091015112140.htmOct 17 18:06
phIRCeTitle: Technology Brings New Insights To One Of The Oldest Middle Eastern Languages Still Spoken .::. Size~: 57.74 KBOct 17 18:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Quote of the day #1 http://post.ly/8zZ1Oct 17 18:15
schestowitzRussian historian arrested in clampdown on Stalin era http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/15/russia-gulag-historian-arrestedOct 17 18:17
schestowitzFreedom of speech???? :-(Oct 17 18:17
schestowitzhttp://cee.mysociety.org/Oct 17 18:20
phIRCeTitle: mySociety in Central and Eastern Europe   .::. Size~: 12.04 KBOct 17 18:20
schestowitzMI5 chief defends links with foreign agencies accused of torture http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/16/mi5-chief-torture-al-qaidaOct 17 18:20
amarsh04schestowitz, adelaide.edu.au has already migrated to Google Mail - I did not like the idea either... the university admins just see the $$$ savingsOct 17 18:26
DaemonFCschestowitz: "and saved British lives"Oct 17 18:27
DaemonFClike in the bus bombings?Oct 17 18:27
DaemonFCwhoops :POct 17 18:27
schestowitzMinton report: Trafigura toxic dumping along the Ivory Coast broke EU regulations, 14 Sep 2006 http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Minton_report:_Trafigura_toxic_dumping_along_the_Ivory_Coast_broke_EU_regulations%2C_14_Sep_2006Oct 17 18:28
phIRCeTitle: Minton report: Trafigura toxic dumping along the Ivory Coast broke EU regulations, 14 Sep 2006 - Wikileaks .::. Size~: 21.98 KBOct 17 18:28
schestowitzamarsh04: yes, I noticed that the article mentioned adelaide.edu.au Oct 17 18:30
schestowitzhttp://www.chinadialogue.net/article/show/single/en/3288Oct 17 18:31
phIRCeTitle: Forests at the frontline | Bhimsen Thapaliya  - China Dialogue .::. Size~: 28.01 KBOct 17 18:31
kecskebakI can't understand why a university would agree to doing this - they are putting a lot of faith in a third party in a different jurisdiction.Oct 17 18:31
amarsh04exactly, kecskebakOct 17 18:32
schestowitzGovernment anti-terrorism strategy 'spies' on innocent http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/16/anti-terrorism-strategy-spies-innocentsOct 17 18:37
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schestowitzTreasury finds £60m to save cultural projects and fund new film centre http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2009/oct/16/treasury-cultural-projects-government-fundingOct 17 18:40
DaemonFChttp://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2354354,00.aspOct 17 18:47
phIRCeTitle: Verizon Not Liable for Ringtone Performance Fee - Reviews by PC Magazine .::. Size~: 90.69 KBOct 17 18:47
schestowitzhttp://www.robweir.com/blog/2009/10/final-ooxml-update-part-ii.html "This feels reminiscent of the situation in 1776, when we had the British attempting to impose their 'standards' and the Americans contesting the imposition strongly enough to form their own country."Oct 17 18:56
phIRCeTitle: An Antic Disposition: The Final OOXML Update: Part II .::. Size~: 41.58 KBOct 17 18:56
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst yep!Oct 17 19:17
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_goblingood evening all.Oct 17 19:21
schestowitz'Gillis concedes that Google wields special influence over wireless companies, particularly in the U.S. (LiMo is headquartered in London and Tokyo.) "Google is a company that's rooted in North America and North American business culture," says Gillis. "The fact that it's getting initial traction there is natural."'Oct 17 19:34
schestowitzhttp://www.forbes.com/2009/10/15/google-android-mobile-technology-wireless-limo.html?feed=rss_technologyOct 17 19:34
phIRCeTitle: LiMo Fights Back  - Forbes.com .::. Size~: 32.01 KBOct 17 19:34
schestowitz_goblin: good eveningOct 17 19:34
schestowitzThis one project looks nice: http://www.bombono.org/cgi-bin/wiki/Oct 17 19:35
phIRCeTitle: Bombono DVD | Author DVD Freely .::. Size~: 14.81 KBOct 17 19:35
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-10-16-023-35-RV-SW-0000Hulu Coding for DRM, rather than for performance?  Oct 17 19:36
phIRCeTitle: Linux Today -  .::. Size~: 76.02 KBOct 17 19:37
schestowitzOops. http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-10-16-023-35-RV-SW-0000 Hulu Coding for DRM, rather than for performance?  Oct 17 19:37
phIRCeTitle: Linux Today - Hands-on: Hulu Desktop for Linux beta a big resource hog .::. Size~: 74.57 KBOct 17 19:37
schestowitzhttp://itmanagement.earthweb.com/features/article.php/3844091/Tech-Comics-Stallman-and-Windows-7.htmOct 17 19:38
phIRCeTitle: Tech Comics: "Stallman and Windows 7" &mdash; Datamation.com .::. Size~: 78.96 KBOct 17 19:38
DaemonFCHP used to void your warranty for installing LinuxOct 17 19:39
DaemonFCWhat amuses me is that one argument for Linux is how Vista performs so poorlyOct 17 19:42
DaemonFCyet, when you plug in a RadeonHD video card, it performs half as fast as it does on Windows unless you get the binary Catalyst driverOct 17 19:43
MinceRdoes windows come with the binary catalyst driver preinstalled?Oct 17 19:43
DaemonFCand Nvidia cards are basically a 2d-only paperweight without the Nvidia binary driverOct 17 19:44
MinceRonce again, does windows come with the nvidia binary driver preinstalled?Oct 17 19:44
DaemonFCMinceR, It comes with one that's good enough to use then Windows Update pulls in the latest versionOct 17 19:44
MinceRso no, it doesn'tOct 17 19:44
DaemonFCyeah, it doesOct 17 19:44
MinceRso you're spewing typical m$ FUD.Oct 17 19:44
DaemonFCeven the three year old Radeon driver you get if you have the RTM Vista disc works better than "radeonhd"Oct 17 19:45
MinceRhow difficult is it to install the official proprietary drivers?Oct 17 19:46
DaemonFCthe radeonhd driver is a total farceOct 17 19:46
MinceRhow much effort does it take?Oct 17 19:46
MinceRusually less than on winblows.Oct 17 19:46
MinceRbtw, gnu/linux usually outperformed windows even before vista.Oct 17 19:46
DaemonFCon selected benchmarks with binary drivers I'm sure it breaks even +/-Oct 17 19:47
DaemonFCthat's the thing, you can't run the same games between them obviously, so what do you benchmark?Oct 17 19:48
DaemonFCthe native port of Doom 3 is slower on Linux than the Windows version in WineOct 17 19:48
MinceRi can run the same games :>Oct 17 19:48
DaemonFC"run it in Wine" would actually be a better answer in many cases than the god awful port they makeOct 17 19:49
DaemonFCif anyOct 17 19:49
MinceRbased on a single sample?Oct 17 19:49
DaemonFCwell, pretty much all of id's recent ports are good examplesOct 17 19:50
DaemonFCthere probably won't be a Doom 4 for Linux thoughOct 17 19:50
DaemonFCid got purchased by BethesdaOct 17 19:50
DaemonFCDoom 4 will be another Windows only thing crawling with SecuROMOct 17 19:50
*amarsh04 has just been rebuilding radeonhd and friends according to http://www.x.org/wiki/radeonhd:experimental_3DOct 17 19:55
phIRCeTitle: X.Org Wiki - radeonhd:experimental_3D .::. Size~: 14.73 KBOct 17 19:55
amarsh04back in a few, testing it outOct 17 19:55
schestowitzradeonhd is made by NovellOct 17 19:59
schestowitzBut they fired LucOct 17 19:59
trmancoso?Oct 17 20:01
schestowitzHmmmmmmm...... :-( :-(Oct 17 20:02
schestowitzSome Things I Like about KDE 4 < http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/40403 >Oct 17 20:02
trmancopeople will still work on itOct 17 20:02
phIRCeTitle: Some Things I Like about KDE 4 | tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 32.95 KBOct 17 20:02
schestowitzShe says: "Folks might ask if I hate KDE 4 so much, why don't I change? And quite simply, because it's still the best even when it sucks."Oct 17 20:02
schestowitzIt's like those people who say, "all software sucks"Oct 17 20:03
schestowitzBut kde4 works well for meOct 17 20:03
schestowitztrmanco: yes, but not as many people. It slowed down a bitOct 17 20:03
trmancobut it will get where it needsOct 17 20:03
MinceR4.3 seems to be a huge improvementOct 17 20:04
schestowitzhttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/28584/1090/ "Why more people don't use GNU/Linux: it's the apps, stupid" -  "If one were to pose the question why don't more people use GNU/Linux, one would probably get as many answers as people who are asked the question."Oct 17 20:05
schestowitzOpposite.Oct 17 20:05
schestowitzHe could say "why people use GNU/Linux? The apps!"Oct 17 20:06
schestowitzMinceR: nice!Oct 17 20:06
MinceRi'll have to let it run for longer to see if plasma is behaving better, thoughOct 17 20:06
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schestowitzhttp://www.tuxmachines.org/node/40347#comment-11639Oct 17 20:09
phIRCeTitle: In Search of KDE 4 | tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 37.55 KBOct 17 20:09
schestowitzBeranger nags again.Oct 17 20:09
schestowitz"Oct 17 20:09
schestowitzDo what I do and file bug reports. KDE4 has moved very quickly in the right direction (since 4.0) and 4.4 is scheduled for January IIRC.Oct 17 20:09
schestowitzLinus intends to revisit KDE4. :-DOct 17 20:10
schestowitz:"Oct 17 20:10
schestowitzMinceR: Plasma desktop takes a lot of RAM after about a week. Like 300MBOct 17 20:10
MinceRughOct 17 20:10
schestowitzI just restart KDE about once a week, no big deal. Takes a few moments, sessions gets entirely restored (better so than in KDE3 where window locations and CLI paths are not 'remembered')Oct 17 20:11
trmancoyou don't need to restart kdeOct 17 20:12
trmancojust kquitapp plasma-desktopOct 17 20:12
trmancowaitOct 17 20:12
trmancoplasma-desktopOct 17 20:12
trmancoare you're doneOct 17 20:12
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schestowitzI knowOct 17 20:15
_goblinHello EricOct 17 20:15
schestowitzBut other things sometimes leak tooOct 17 20:15
schestowitzCartmanOct 17 20:15
EDavidBurgI'm listening to the interview nowOct 17 20:15
_goblinRepresenting Linsux?Oct 17 20:15
EDavidBurgJust started it though, no roy yet.Oct 17 20:15
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EDavidBurgHmm?Oct 17 20:15
_goblinEDavidBurg: I see you in the Linsux chat room as a regular.  The Linsux loons ban on me was very easy to get around.  Its surprising that whilst they claim to like Linux, they are Windows users.  Ive got an interesting article coming up on that. Oct 17 20:18
schestowitzhttp://www.ghabuntu.com/2009/10/5-reasons-why-google-chrome-os-may-not.htmlOct 17 20:19
phIRCeTitle:  |  .::. Size~: 90.08 KBOct 17 20:19
EDavidBurg_goblin: I look forward to it, go ahead and post it on the site if you likeOct 17 20:20
schestowitztrmanco:  ^^??Oct 17 20:20
_goblinThanks but I don't need your approval.Oct 17 20:20
mutxit's an interesting interviewOct 17 20:21
trmancoschestowitz: kill and restart the processOct 17 20:21
EDavidBurgAnd I have no authority to give it out, just saying, if you feel like it, I think people would be interested in it.Oct 17 20:21
trmancoknotify leaks here tooOct 17 20:21
trmancoplasmaOct 17 20:21
trmancoand the python kde update notifier thingOct 17 20:21
_goblinI don't think people will be that interested although it will help enlighten people when they mistaking believe that Linsux represents anything but an often vulgar and immature Windows opinion....Just like Mr Wong was corrected in his article.Oct 17 20:23
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EDavidBurgAlright, well, I'll keep an eye out for it.Oct 17 20:23
EDavidBurgschestowitz: Your accent reminds me somewhat of Linus'sOct 17 20:26
schestowitzEDavidBurg: jono told me thatOct 17 20:27
schestowitzI spoke to jono for a long time after the showOct 17 20:28
schestowitzTo cool things offOct 17 20:28
EDavidBurgschestowitz: I'm only a few minutes into the interviewOct 17 20:28
schestowitzI'm a Ubuntu user a lot of the timeOct 17 20:28
schestowitzAnd jono is a regular in this channelOct 17 20:28
schestowitzI still can't believe I'm using alpha/beta on a 'production' systemOct 17 20:28
schestowitzIt's the first time ever that I do this because I wanted kde 4.3 and (K)Ubuntu was the closest release with itOct 17 20:29
schestowitztrmanco: [20:21] <trmanco> schestowitz: kill and restart the processOct 17 20:29
schestowitzNot simpleOct 17 20:29
schestowitzThen I have xchat orphanedOct 17 20:29
schestowitzBut I think a patch fixed it some weeks agoOct 17 20:29
trmancostrangeOct 17 20:29
schestowitzCause if Plasma crashes (maybe once in 2 weeks), then it automatically returns and without orphaningOct 17 20:30
schestowitzEDavidBurg: you should use the video versionOct 17 20:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] A discussion with Indiana Gregg – Setting the record straight. http://tinyurl.com/yfgx8tjOct 17 20:30
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phIRCeTitle: A discussion with Indiana Gregg  Setting the record straight. «  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 45.72 KBOct 17 20:30
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/10/16/boycott-novell-on-twit/Oct 17 20:30
phIRCeTitle: Boycott Novell on TWiT TV (as Ogg) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 98.13 KBOct 17 20:31
schestowitzI basically hate the whole thing, but others thought it was not damaging for it to be outOct 17 20:31
schestowitz[20:21] <trmanco> knotify leaks here tooOct 17 20:31
trmancoschestowitz: right, it a gtk appOct 17 20:32
trmanco:-POct 17 20:32
schestowitzBut it's a small process, can it leak much?Oct 17 20:32
trmancoif I restart plasma right nowOct 17 20:32
EDavidBurgschestowitz: I'm on bad hotel internet, the video would take forever to downloadOct 17 20:32
trmancoeverything comes back as it wasOct 17 20:32
trmancoxchat noOct 17 20:32
schestowitzEDavidBurg: it's ogg streamOct 17 20:32
trmancoxchat is low memOct 17 20:32
schestowitztrmanco transcoded itOct 17 20:32
trmancoI think the sound at the end is out of sync :|Oct 17 20:33
trmancoabout 10 minutes from the end :|Oct 17 20:33
schestowitztrmanco: maybe, but it's not a good solutionOct 17 20:33
schestowitz 1725 roy       20   0  717m 317m  15m S    4 15.8 685:06.27 plasma-desktopOct 17 20:33
schestowitz18373 roy       20   0  381m 248m  25m S    0 12.3  16:57.73 thunderbird-binOct 17 20:33
schestowitz15% of my RAMOct 17 20:33
trmanco 3185 trmanco   20   0  452m  60m  31m S    2  6.1  17:27.53 plasma-desktopOct 17 20:34
schestowitz6.1 of 1gb?Oct 17 20:34
trmancoyeahOct 17 20:34
schestowitz61mb vs 300mbOct 17 20:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] yes Mint do make money from that search plugin, it also gives them better stats to take to other partnersOct 17 20:34
trmancofree -mOct 17 20:35
trmanco             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cachedOct 17 20:35
trmancoMem:          1002        949         52          0         25        391Oct 17 20:35
trmanco-/+ buffers/cache:        532        469Oct 17 20:35
trmancoSwap:         2243        156       2087Oct 17 20:35
trmancoTasks: 150 total,   2 running, 148 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombieOct 17 20:35
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schestowitz22212 roy       20   0  339m  56m  28m S    2  2.8   0:04.71 plasma-desktopOct 17 20:36
schestowitzAfter restartOct 17 20:36
trmancohehe :DOct 17 20:36
schestowitzkquitapp plasma-desktop && plasma-desktop && knotify 'cough cough'Oct 17 20:37
trmanco 3132 trmanco   20   0  238m  16m  12m S    9  1.6  28:33.27 kwinOct 17 20:38
schestowitzecho 'kquitapp plasma-desktop && plasma-desktop' >> restart_plasma && chmod 755 restart_plasmaOct 17 20:39
MinceRoh, that gives me an idea on how to fix pulseaudio on ubuntuOct 17 20:40
schestowitzkdesktop was always a little more problematic to restart (in kde3)Oct 17 20:40
MinceRremove execute permissions on it :>Oct 17 20:40
schestowitzOne thing that's admirable is that I _never_ had to run to tty1 yetOct 17 20:40
MinceRon kubuntu i simply didn't install ubuntu-desktop, only its dependencies except pulseaudio :>Oct 17 20:40
schestowitzI've used kde4 for almost 2 months and it NEVER froze or got hung up by a process. Not ever once.Oct 17 20:40
schestowitzIn Mandriva I would have amarok taking a dump once in a few weeks, so I had to force-kill itOct 17 20:41
schestowitzWhen Mandriva 2010,0 it out, it ought to be solidOct 17 20:41
MinceRi stopped using amarok when it loaded a file of hundreds of megabytes entirely into RAM in order to look for a tagOct 17 20:42
MinceRwhen it got added into the media libraryOct 17 20:42
trmancololOct 17 20:42
trmancoamarok is awesomeOct 17 20:42
MinceRi prefer audaciousOct 17 20:42
schestowitz[20:40] <MinceR> remove execute permissions on it :>Oct 17 20:42
schestowitzIt's s sh scriptOct 17 20:42
MinceRbut it isn't run as "sh pulseaudio", is it?Oct 17 20:42
schestowitzit runs OKOct 17 20:43
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schestowitzI have many proggies like thisOct 17 20:43
schestowitzroy@roy:~$ cat  wp-stat.shOct 17 20:44
schestowitz# compact, moveOct 17 20:44
schestowitzcp ~/.mozilla-thunderbird/rtx2dxi3.default/Mail/mail.schestowitz-6.com/Inbox.sbd/Monthly ~/DesktopOct 17 20:44
schestowitzkate ~/Main/Programs/mls-1.3/wp-hackers-stats/wphackers-notes &Oct 17 20:44
schestowitz/home/roy/Main/Programs/mls-1.3/mls -i ~/Desktop/Monthly -o ~/Desktop/wphackers-output -v -m text -n 25 -T "Stats for wp-hackers"Oct 17 20:44
schestowitzYou can assign these commands with xbindkeysOct 17 20:45
schestowitzThen you can invoke complex processes with keyboard acceleratorsOct 17 20:45
schestowitzI have one to file database archives under date when I hit ctrl+alt+6Oct 17 20:45
MinceRi think i'll be forced to use debootstrap and chroot to have access to kde3 :/Oct 17 20:46
schestowitzIn the past I wrote  a script to delete (physically) the song played with currentlyOct 17 20:46
MinceRi still haven't managed to make the damn thing compile in a way that it could be stowedOct 17 20:46
schestowitzSo when I listen to something terrible I can just delete it with some keystrokesOct 17 20:46
schestowitzhttp://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/closed-ubuntu-design-suggests-mark/Oct 17 20:49
phIRCeTitle: Closed Ubuntu Design Suggests Mark « DoctorMO's Blog .::. Size~: 37.3 KBOct 17 20:50
tessierhttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/28570/1090/1/1/Oct 17 20:50
tessierNice discussion about MonoOct 17 20:50
schestowitzhttp://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/pdftk.htmlOct 17 20:52
schestowitztessier: yes, seen it in Linux TodayOct 17 20:52
schestowitztessier: BN was right in 2006 about MonoOct 17 20:52
schestowitzANd we made more or less the same argumentsOct 17 20:52
schestowitzIn 2007 we had more evidenceOct 17 20:52
schestowitzCarla linked to page 2 for some reason. p1: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/28570/1090/Oct 17 20:53
schestowitzThere seems to be Joomla/SamboServer  bug in itwire. No links to page 1Oct 17 20:54
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schestowitzhttp://linux.bihlman.com/2009/10/16/debian-chinese-how-to/Oct 17 20:55
EDavidBurgschestowitz: who is the person jono mentioned who hangs out on IRC?Oct 17 20:55
sebsebsebhiOct 17 20:55
schestowitzEDavidBurg: they like talking about "twitter" from SLashdot cause he has multiple accounts thereOct 17 20:55
EDavidBurgschestowitz: is that allowed?Oct 17 20:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] I gotta feeling....Oct 17 20:59
amarsh04just seen in #radeonhd: http://yangman.ca/blog/2009/10/15/linux-graphics-driver-stack-explained/Oct 17 21:00
phIRCeTitle: Linux “Graphics Driver Stack” Explained « Geek on Two Wheels  .::. Size~: 13.57 KBOct 17 21:00
schestowitzhttp://standardsandfreedom.net/index.php/2009/10/16/9-years-of-magic/Oct 17 21:01
phIRCeTitle:   9 years of magic | Moved by Freedom - Powered by Standards .::. Size~: 20.42 KBOct 17 21:01
schestowitzOOo claims 10% maket share globallyOct 17 21:01
schestowitzBut they force the price of Office down, so that too much be taken into considerationOct 17 21:01
schestowitzEDavidBurg: no, and it's unethical tooOct 17 21:01
amarsh04in #radeon ratherOct 17 21:01
schestowitzI have never used multiple namesOct 17 21:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] experimental git-backed #mediawiki word-level blame system by @jamesmikedupont http://is.gd/4o4THOct 17 21:01
phIRCeTitle: FMTYEWTK: Mediawiki git Word Level Blaming, one line per word .::. Size~: 84.11 KBOct 17 21:01
schestowitzAs I understand it, "twitter" was abused by AstroTurfers, so he moved to other accounts. But then he started sockpuppetting, so I denounced him for this. He didn't stop AFAIKOct 17 21:02
schestowitzBefore 2003/4 my usual handle name was royss2000Oct 17 21:03
schestowitzLike in ICQ daysOct 17 21:03
EDavidBurgI've been EDavidBurg since my dad signed me up for AOL in 1996Oct 17 21:03
schestowitzSeems as though I'm not alone. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en-GB&q=royss2000&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8Oct 17 21:04
phIRCeTitle: royss2000 - Google Search .::. Size~: 28.94 KBOct 17 21:04
schestowitzIt's all in Chinese or Cantonese or whateverOct 17 21:04
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schestowitzhttp://pcplus.techradar.com/node/3130/Oct 17 21:08
schestowitzWatch the bannerOct 17 21:08
phIRCeTitle: Sharma: Open Source Hardware | PC Plus .::. Size~: 31.23 KBOct 17 21:08
schestowitzVista 7 advert all over the place in FOSS articlesOct 17 21:08
schestowitzhttp://webupd8.blogspot.com/2009/10/autofsck-for-ubuntu.htmlOct 17 21:09
phIRCeTitle: AutoFsck For Ubuntu ~ Web Upd8 .::. Size~: 142.58 KBOct 17 21:09
trmancowhat?Oct 17 21:10
trmancoFsckOct 17 21:10
trmanco!google autofsck ubuntuOct 17 21:10
phIRCe[1] - AutoFsck - Ubuntu Wiki | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutoFsckOct 17 21:10
phIRCe[2] - AutoFsck/Doc - Ubuntu Wiki | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutoFsck/DocOct 17 21:10
phIRCe[3] - [ubuntu] AutoFSCK - Ubuntu Forums | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php%3Ft%3D776728Oct 17 21:10
phIRCe[4] - Ubuntu 30-Mount Check Annoyance | micrux.net | http://micrux.net/%3Fp%3D52Oct 17 21:10
schestowitzhttp://linuxhaters.blogspot.com/2009/08/no-its-not-dead.htmlOct 17 21:11
phIRCeTitle: Linux Hater's Blog: No, it's not dead .::. Size~: 140.42 KBOct 17 21:11
schestowitz"    You should just admit that you are Roy Schestowitz and be done with it."Oct 17 21:11
schestowitz??Oct 17 21:11
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trmancolink to comment?Oct 17 21:12
EDavidBurgmethinks it was sarcasticOct 17 21:12
schestowitzI know.Oct 17 21:21
schestowitzWhy would *I* be a Linux hater? I'm an advocate all the way.Oct 17 21:21
schestowitzI don't criticise companies like Novell for the "Linux", but only for issues of conduct like patents and policies.Oct 17 21:22
EDavidBurgJust finished the interview. I think you did a very good job of explaining your point of viewOct 17 21:25
EDavidBurgI think you do well when you incorporate both sides of the issue and argue your side.Oct 17 21:25
EDavidBurgObviously I have no authority to tell you what to post, but I think it might be beneficial to you to incorporate both sides a bit more, so it's more of a dialogue than a monologueOct 17 21:26
_goblinSchestowitz: FYI Mr EDavidBurg has this to say on your site/chat.  I think (as before) his words should be taken with a pinch of salt. http://linsux.org/index.php?topic=2343.0;wap2Oct 17 21:27
phIRCeTitle: BN Member Implies that Windows is better since it has more users .::. Size~: 5.86 KBOct 17 21:27
_goblinseems like he was proud of his trolling here.Oct 17 21:27
EDavidBurg_goblin: I think we can both agree that I've been entirely civil while hereOct 17 21:28
_goblinyes and you were before...Oct 17 21:28
_goblinthe point of your attendance was to bring some sort of joke into Linsux.Oct 17 21:28
_goblinas you did on that link.Oct 17 21:28
_goblinand took delight in it.Oct 17 21:28
trmancowhy can't we just all get along and stop the flaming?Oct 17 21:29
EDavidBurg_goblin: if you recall, though, you joined ##linsuxchat and trolled us, and I joined shortly after and parodied you.Oct 17 21:29
EDavidBurgBut I have no interest in discussing this furtherOct 17 21:29
_goblinhow was my question on the reason why you were asking for donations trolling?Oct 17 21:29
_goblinI have not responded to Linsux and its abuse for so long.  I kept my mouth shut.Oct 17 21:30
mutxI think the interview, speaks very well for itself.Oct 17 21:30
EDavidBurg= 15:02:23 | _goblin > How does it feel that you mock Boycott Novell, yet its chat and website are far more popular than yours....Oct 17 21:30
EDavidBurg= 15:02:40 | _goblin > shame?Oct 17 21:30
_goblinsee aboveOct 17 21:30
trmancoI blew it againOct 17 21:30
trmancoExecutable: kopete PID: 3282 Signal: 6 (Aborted)Oct 17 21:30
EDavidBurghow is that not inflammatory?Oct 17 21:30
_goblinas I say, I let Linsux get away with their campaign for a long time.Oct 17 21:30
_goblinit was only when I noticed that their chat only had 8 users I took the time to challenge them again.Oct 17 21:31
EDavidBurgWell, we've got 9 now! :)Oct 17 21:31
_goblinwdOct 17 21:31
mutxlucky it's not a popularity contest :)Oct 17 21:32
EDavidBurgReally, as I've said: I have no interest in discussing this further. I've come here and tried to be civil, I listened to schestowitz's interview and gave my feedback.Oct 17 21:33
EDavidBurgThat's all I came to do. I've been met with hostility by youOct 17 21:33
_goblinwell at least you can't blame Roy or BN.  Yes I am hostile towards you, I have seen what you post about BN.  Thats my opinion and it shows how reasonable Roy is in that he chats nicely to you.Oct 17 21:34
mutxyes, it shows maturity.Oct 17 21:35
schestowitzI'e just read:Oct 17 21:35
schestowitz"Oct 17 21:35
schestowitzI just did a quick look in Synaptic, after a couple upgrades fromOct 17 21:35
schestowitzEdubuntu.Oct 17 21:35
schestowitzOnly thing using Mono is Evolution.  Since it is not required, itOct 17 21:35
schestowitzcan be uninstalled, along with the Mono libraries.  Nothing elseOct 17 21:35
schestowitzI see is using Mono, and all the rest is not installed by default.Oct 17 21:35
schestowitz- HPTOct 17 21:35
schestowitz"Oct 17 21:35
schestowitzCan anyone confirm?Oct 17 21:35
schestowitzEvolution is NOT supposed to drag Mono with itOct 17 21:35
schestowitzIt did in OpenSUSEOct 17 21:35
schestowitzBecause there are mono pluginsOct 17 21:35
EDavidBurgI agree, roy has been very mature about itOct 17 21:36
Diablo-D3schestowitz: butOct 17 21:37
Diablo-D3who cares about suse?Oct 17 21:37
Diablo-D3it has no usersOct 17 21:37
schestowitzIt has manyOct 17 21:37
schestowitzIn GermanyOct 17 21:37
schestowitzOpenSUSE mostlyOct 17 21:37
Diablo-D3or so suse saysOct 17 21:37
Diablo-D3I dont think they really doOct 17 21:37
schestowitzThey get them in magazine, so d/l numebrs don't mean muchOct 17 21:38
schestowitzAnd in Germany Linux has 6% preinstall rates in laptops nowOct 17 21:38
schestowitzIn the UK it's 3%Oct 17 21:38
Diablo-D3germany doesnt even sound like a real country thenOct 17 21:38
*schestowitz installed evolutionOct 17 21:39
Diablo-D3I should make an email client called creationismOct 17 21:39
_goblinI must admit I was a big supporter of SUSE for a long while, our computer club ran off it.Oct 17 21:39
Diablo-D3Im pretty sure ubuntu CE would ship it by defaultOct 17 21:40
Diablo-D3_goblin: disgustingOct 17 21:40
_goblindiablo-D3: that being said, I think SUSE is one of the slower performing distro's now...when I compared it to Wolvix for eg, that little distro blew suse away.Oct 17 21:41
schestowitzDiablo-D3: don't be rudeOct 17 21:41
schestowitzYou put off peopleOct 17 21:41
_goblinschestowitz: ahh its ok....I think Diablo and me have an understanding!Oct 17 21:41
_goblinschestowitz: he did afterall port zsnes....Oct 17 21:42
schestowitz"Oct 17 21:43
schestowitzEvolution is a groupware suite which integrates mail, calendar, address book, to-do list and memo tools.Oct 17 21:43
schestowitzAdditional features include integration with Exchange and Groupwise servers, newsgroup client, LDAP support, web calendars and synchronization with Palm devices.Oct 17 21:43
schestowitzEvolution is a graphical application that is part of GNOME, and is distributed by Novell, Inc.Oct 17 21:43
schestowitzSee http://www.novell.com/products/evolution/ for more information.Oct 17 21:43
schestowitzThe following plugins belonging to the "base" set are included.Oct 17 21:43
phIRCeTitle: Novell Evolution: E-mail and Calendaring .::. Size~: 17.94 KBOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• calendar-fileOct 17 21:43
Diablo-D3HOLY CRAPOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• calendar-httpOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• calendar-weatherOct 17 21:43
Diablo-D3evolution is a novell product?Oct 17 21:43
schestowitz• itip-formatterOct 17 21:43
Diablo-D3BURN ITOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• plugin-managerOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• pythonOct 17 21:43
Diablo-D3BUUURRNNN IITTTTOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• default-sourceOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• addressbook-fileOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• startup-wizardOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• mark-all-readOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• groupwise-featuresOct 17 21:43
MinceRit has always been a novell product ever since novell bought ximian :>Oct 17 21:43
schestowitz• groupwise-account-setupOct 17 21:43
Diablo-D3NUKE IT FROM ORBIT, ITS THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE SUUUUUREEEEEEEEOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• webdav-account-setupOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• mail-account-disableOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• publish-calendarOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• caldavOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• imap-featuresOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• google-account-setupOct 17 21:43
schestowitz• sa-junk-pluginOct 17 21:44
MinceRyet it seems to be the email client with the least (but still) broken search folder supportOct 17 21:44
schestowitz• bogo-junk-pluginOct 17 21:44
schestowitz• exchange-operationsOct 17 21:44
schestowitz• monoOct 17 21:44
MinceRhm, i should check kmail againOct 17 21:44
schestowitz"Oct 17 21:44
schestowitzShhhhOct 17 21:44
schestowitzIT's the Mono issue that's the problem hereOct 17 21:44
MinceRschestowitz: can't you use pastebin or something for stuff like that? or a link?Oct 17 21:44
_goblinI've been a happy user of Thunderbird for a long while...does everything I need. and Diablo that was a quote from the film Aliens unless Im mistaken.Oct 17 21:44
MinceRlast time i checked thunderbird incremented the unread count for every search folder even if the new mail item didn't belong in themOct 17 21:44
schestowitzMinceR: it rarely occurs to meOct 17 21:47
schestowitzBut you're rightOct 17 21:47
*schestowitz makes mental noteOct 17 21:47
*schestowitz moves on to looking at *NUX newsOct 17 21:47
MinceRalso, thunderbird didn't refresh search folders when new mail arrivedOct 17 21:48
MinceRevolution's bug in handling search folders is that mail items that should be in a particular search folder don't always appearOct 17 21:48
schestowitzthunderbird has good filtersOct 17 21:50
schestowitzYou could file in separate folder w/ filtersOct 17 21:50
schestowitzBut then you have one message-folder mappingOct 17 21:50
schestowitzNot the same as virtual ones, but...Oct 17 21:50
schestowitzAlso TB3 has good stuff I saw today.Oct 17 21:50
schestowitzHold on.Oct 17 21:50
schestowitzHere: http://www.ghacks.net/2009/10/16/customize-the-email-archive-in-thunderbird-3/Oct 17 21:50
phIRCeTitle: Customize The Email Archive In Thunderbird 3 .::. Size~: 36.14 KBOct 17 21:50
_goblinIve found Thunderbird very fast and because it handles all of my RSS/Email/NG needs Ive never really had an incentive to change.Oct 17 21:53
*Xarver has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))Oct 17 21:53
_goblinwow...my reader rate just jumped 100 unique IP's in the last 1/2 hour. Must be due to the Indiana Gregg interview I did.Oct 17 21:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Athens #Schools Run #GNU #Linux, Kids Likes It http://ur1.ca/dtr2 http://ur1.ca/dsddOct 17 21:57
phIRCeTitle: Raiden's Realm: Linux in Education: Athens Schools .::. Size~: 32.75 KBOct 17 21:57
phIRCeTitle: Introducing your Child to Linux  SmartBean .::. Size~: 47.75 KBOct 17 21:58
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why #GNU #Linux Users Love Their Platform (Unlike #Windows Users) http://bit.ly/2iEhr1Oct 17 21:59
phIRCeTitle: Eleven is Louder: What is it About Linux? .::. Size~: 74.59 KBOct 17 21:59
MinceRfilters won't do me any goodOct 17 22:00
MinceRi'm collating newsfeed items into foldersOct 17 22:00
MinceRbut still keep them separate and sometimes access them that wayOct 17 22:00
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux / #FOSS #Audiocasts Released: #LinuxOutlaws , CAOS Theory http://ur1.ca/drsq http://ur1.ca/dtrbOct 17 22:01
phIRCeTitle: Linux Outlaws 116 - Hardly a Stampede | Linux Outlaws .::. Size~: 20.11 KBOct 17 22:01
phIRCeTitle: 451 CAOS Theory » CAOS Theory Podcast 2009.10.16 .::. Size~: 41.91 KBOct 17 22:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #CairoDock 2.1.0 Released, #Glista 0.4 Replaces #Mono / #Tomboy http://ur1.ca/dtrf http://ur1.ca/dtrgOct 17 22:02
phIRCeTitle: Cairo-Dock 2.1.0 Released, OpenGL Mode Now Works With The Latest OpenSource ATI And Intel Drivers ~ Web Upd8 .::. Size~: 154.05 KBOct 17 22:02
phIRCeTitle: IT Lure: Tasks and To-Dos with Glista 0.4 .::. Size~: 65.2 KBOct 17 22:03
*Chips_B_Malroy (i=4731c09d@gateway/web/freenode/x-ayhdeunjbquvttul) has joined #boycottnovellOct 17 22:04
Chips_B_MalroyHello allOct 17 22:05
*Xarver (n=kenny@cpe-76-173-101-172.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #boycottnovellOct 17 22:07
Chips_B_Malroyhttp://www.metroactive.com/metro/09.19.07/news-0738.html   since this site seems to be into politics lately, some of you might like this postOct 17 22:07
phIRCeTitle: News & Culture in America | Immigrants and Armed Forces Recruitment .::. Size~: 38.65 KBOct 17 22:07
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_goblinHi Chips!Oct 17 22:07
Chips_B_MalroyAh, the bot likes it.  LOL  Quote:  "How many of these young Latino recruits are illegal immigrants? "Nobody knows," says Flavia Jimenez, an immigration policy analyst at the National Council of La Raza. "But what we do know is that recruiters may not be up to speed on everybody's legal status. We also know that a significant number of [illegals] have died in Iraq."Oct 17 22:08
_goblinhow are you?Oct 17 22:08
Chips_B_MalroyHi GobinOct 17 22:08
Chips_B_Malroyquoting more:  "The recruitment of illegal immigrants is particularly intense in Los Angeles, where 75 percent of high school students are Latino. "A lot of our students are undocumented," says Arlene Inouye, a teacher at Garfield High School in East Los Angeles, "and it's common knowledge that recruiters offer green cards." Inouye is the coordinator and founder of the Coalition Against Militarism in Our Schools, aOct 17 22:08
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin> I slowed down at lot lately with other projectsOct 17 22:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] This evening I was planning on doing some screencasting. Then I opened a new bottle of cognac. Fail.Oct 17 22:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Conferences/Expos About Linux Summarised, Arrive: http://ur1.ca/dtrp http://ur1.ca/dtrq http://ur1.ca/dtrsOct 17 22:09
phIRCeTitle: Scenes from the Real Time Linux Workshop [LWN.net] .::. Size~: 49.05 KBOct 17 22:10
phIRCeTitle: Mother explains why everybody should attend the 2009 Linux Day | Stop! .::. Size~: 11.04 KBOct 17 22:10
phIRCeTitle:  Interview: Behind the Scenes at SCALE 8x's Call For Papers  .::. Size~: 34.38 KBOct 17 22:10
Chips_B_MalroySo the USA is using illegal immigrants to help fight its warsOct 17 22:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment and #GNOME Compared, Planned at Summits http://ur1.ca/dtrt http://ur1.ca/dtru http://ur1.ca/dtrvOct 17 22:11
phIRCeTitle: Developer Days 2009: Qt Grows | KDE.news .::. Size~: 24.51 KBOct 17 22:12
phIRCeTitle: aseigo: comparing "KDE 4" and "GNOME 3" .::. Size~: 104.35 KBOct 17 22:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #KDE Applications Target Science Education/Research http://ur1.ca/dtry http://ur1.ca/dtrzOct 17 22:12
phIRCeTitle: LabPlot and SciDAVis Collaborate on the Future of Free Scientific Plotting | KDE.news .::. Size~: 39.52 KBOct 17 22:12
phIRCeTitle: Some Things I Like about KDE 4 | tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 32.82 KBOct 17 22:13
_goblinmy KDE experiences should be up on OB on Sunday....Oct 17 22:13
Chips_B_Malroyso you trying the KDE4?Oct 17 22:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Parsix #GNU #Linux 3.0, a Great Distribution from #Iran , is Released http://ur1.ca/dts1Oct 17 22:13
phIRCeTitle: Parsix 3.0 Kev Released and Reviewed « Begin Linux Blog .::. Size~: 47.15 KBOct 17 22:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #PuppyLinux 4.3 Works Brilliantly on Old Laptop http://bit.ly/4bg2Rl #woofOct 17 22:15
phIRCeTitle: Review Linux - Linux OS Reviews & News Site  ::   Linux Reviews : Puppy : Thoughts: Puppy Linux 4.3 on Older Laptop .::. Size~: 61 KBOct 17 22:16
_goblinyeah.Oct 17 22:17
_goblinlooking at KDE from a Gnome users point of view.Oct 17 22:17
Chips_B_MalroyI tried kde 4.2 in Danums Mepis, while it was not terrible (kde4) I decided to wait till I absolutly had to switch Oct 17 22:18
Chips_B_MalroyGnome being out of the question for me on ethical grounds since the blending of mono.  Oct 17 22:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KahelOS Produced Out of #Arch #GNU #Linux http://bit.ly/4kgPYbOct 17 22:20
phIRCeTitle: Kahel OS Linux Review | Desktop Linux Reviews .::. Size~: 68.34 KBOct 17 22:21
_goblinchips, its a difficult one...having said that I exercise my right/ability to remove it from my system...Mono gets no benefit from a Gnome sugerdaddy on my system.Oct 17 22:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mandriva Calls for Contributions from Users http://ur1.ca/dtsc http://ur1.ca/dtsdOct 17 22:21
phIRCeTitle: The Official Mandriva Blog  » Blog Archive   » 101: contributing to Mandriva Linux .::. Size~: 25.5 KBOct 17 22:21
phIRCeTitle: The Official Mandriva Blog  » Blog Archive   » 102: taking part in Mandriva Linux .::. Size~: 19.04 KBOct 17 22:22
schestowitzHey, Chips_B_MalroyOct 17 22:22
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin, I do understand what you are saying, that at this point Gnome is what you use, and are used to.  That you can remove monoOct 17 22:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Earns Another Security Certification, CEO Interviewed http://ur1.ca/dtsi http://ur1.ca/dtsjOct 17 22:22
Chips_B_MalroyHello RoyOct 17 22:23
phIRCeTitle: Red Hat’s Jim Whitehurst ‘on the bleeding edge’ of change with 'cred' :: Editor’s Blog at Local Tech Wire .::. Size~: 26.11 KBOct 17 22:23
*schestowitz watches up with ircOct 17 22:23
schestowitz*catches even!Oct 17 22:23
Chips_B_MalroyGoblin>  its just with me, I prefer to boycott any distro that puts mono in by defaultOct 17 22:23
_goblinfair point.Oct 17 22:24
Chips_B_MalroyMono just seems to be a way for M$ to get a back door into GNU/Linux.  One of my main reasons to use GNU/Linux is to get away from M$ software and problems.Oct 17 22:24
schestowitzChips_B_Malroy: Microsoft Nick is promoting VIsta 8 this weekOct 17 22:24
schestowitzI couldn't help noticing and I'll post about it l8erOct 17 22:25
_goblinmy main rig runs XFCE so really I am an XFCE fan not a Gnome user.Oct 17 22:25
schestowitz[22:11] <Chips_B_Malroy> So the USA is using illegal immigrants to help fight its warsOct 17 22:25
schestowitzNo, it uses unemploymentOct 17 22:25
Chips_B_MalroyI have not watched Nick at M$ Watch lately, his posts are so boring mostlyOct 17 22:25
schestowitzIf people are at risk of not having a roof over their head they join the army (=cannon fodder)Oct 17 22:25
*Xarver has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Oct 17 22:26
schestowitzAnd failing that, they recruit the Mujahadeen (Spelling) and give them StingersOct 17 22:26
Chips_B_Malroyyes Roy, but its more than that, these illegals are being exploitedOct 17 22:26
Chips_B_Malroywithout them, there might be a draftOct 17 22:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] The gagging attempt only drew more publicity, will people ever learn? http://tinyurl.com/yll2nmuOct 17 22:26
phIRCeTitle: BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Ivorian dumping report published .::. Size~: 50.75 KBOct 17 22:26
schestowitz[22:25] <Chips_B_Malroy> I have not watched Nick at M$ Watch lately, his posts are so boring mostlyOct 17 22:27
schestowitzYes, he recites conventionsOct 17 22:27
schestowitzDocile writers echo press releasesOct 17 22:27
*yuhong_ (n=chatzill@pool-173-64-154-25.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovellOct 17 22:27
schestowitzIf I wanted to read that, I'd go to PRNewsWire for my 'news'Oct 17 22:27
schestowitzI.e. I/O of PR departmentsOct 17 22:27
*EDavidBurg has quit ("leaving")Oct 17 22:27
yuhong_Anyway, MS and Intel were not always friends.Oct 17 22:28
schestowitzOf course notOct 17 22:28
Chips_B_MalroyNick has not learned the first rule of a M$ fanboi reporter.  If you want readers, you have to post some negative viewpoints on M$ sometimes, or readers will not be interestedOct 17 22:28
schestowitzIt's a marriage of convenienceOct 17 22:28
schestowitzATM Windows protects x86Oct 17 22:28
schestowitzAMD and Intel play "favourites" with Ballmer and PearlyOct 17 22:28
yuhong_wait while i dig out a sourceOct 17 22:29
yuhong_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Architecture_LabsOct 17 22:30
phIRCeTitle: Intel Architecture Labs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 23.51 KBOct 17 22:30
yuhong_"IAL pursued both hardware and software initiatives, but the latter became de-emphasized after the efforts collided with similar activities by Microsoft. For example, Native Signal Processing (NSP) was a software initiative to allow Intel-based PCs to run time-sensitive code independently of the operating system, allowing real-time audio and video processing on the microprocessors of the...Oct 17 22:30
yuhong_...mid-1990s. Microsoft refused to support NSP in its operating systems and convinced PC makers that the NSP drivers would render their systems unsupported, and Intel pulled back from promoting the software, leaving NSP as an orphan. IAL also tangled with Microsoft by supporting Netscape and their early browser, and by producing a fast native x86 port of the Java system. Most of these...Oct 17 22:30
yuhong_...projects were later shelved, and after 1997 IAL tended not to risk competing with Microsoft. The details of IAL's conflicts with Microsoft over software were revealed in Steven McGeady's testimony in the Microsoft anti-trust trial.Oct 17 22:30
yuhong_http://partners.nytimes.com/library/tech/98/11/biztech/articles/16soft.htmlOct 17 22:30
phIRCeTitle: Depth of an Old Microsoft-Intel Rift Is Disclosed in Court .::. Size~: 14.71 KBOct 17 22:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Debian Puts Microsoft Code in http://bit.ly/QWsD6Oct 17 22:30
phIRCeTitle: Torsten Werner's blog: 10 years in Debian now .::. Size~: 56.53 KBOct 17 22:30
yuhong_http://news.cnet.com/Intel-Microsoft-made-threats/2100-1001_3-217653.htmlOct 17 22:31
phIRCeTitle: Intel: Microsoft made threats - CNET News .::. Size~: 82.75 KBOct 17 22:31
yuhong_http://www.theregister.co.uk/1998/11/11/microsoft_said_drop_nsp/Oct 17 22:31
phIRCeTitle: Microsoft said drop NSP or MMX gets it, says Intel exec • The Register .::. Size~: 23.87 KBOct 17 22:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #WindRiver: #Linux is Absolutely Meeting Our Needs. http://bit.ly/b89tKOct 17 22:31
phIRCeTitle: Wind River's Linux chief: I don't wear an Intel badge. - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 67.7 KBOct 17 22:32
Chips_B_Malroywhat would be interesting is if AMD get a license to make ARM cpu's Oct 17 22:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #WindRiver Puts #Linux in New Automation Unit http://bit.ly/3s7nsjOct 17 22:33
schestowitzyuhong_: Microsoft organised boycotts vs IntelOct 17 22:33
phIRCeTitle: Home automation gateway runs Linux - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 60.93 KBOct 17 22:34
schestowitzINTC did some of its own dirty things at the timeOct 17 22:34
schestowitzIf you look at Google News archives you'll see Intel's bloody past of commercial bloodshed and corruptionOct 17 22:34
yuhong_Of course, I know about how they tried to take away AMD's right to make 386s, but that is not what I am talking about.Oct 17 22:35
yuhong_On the other hand, would Intel have updated some of their low-end CPUs, like Q8300, E7400, E7500, E5200, E5300, to have VT if it wasn't for Windows Virtual PC in Windows 7?Oct 17 22:37
yuhong_As well as of course make new ones have VT.Oct 17 22:37
Chips_B_MalroyYuhong>  more likely because of the competition from AMD which almost all current cpu's have AMD-vOct 17 22:38
Chips_B_Malroynot win7Oct 17 22:38
yuhong_Except that even AMD did not initially add AMD-V to Semprons.Oct 17 22:39
Chips_B_Malroyits why I said almost allOct 17 22:39
Chips_B_MalroyyesOct 17 22:39
yuhong_But again they eventually added it to newer Semprons.Oct 17 22:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google Expects #Linux Blowout in Phones http://bit.ly/nFrXoOct 17 22:39
phIRCeTitle:   Schmidt: Android Adoption Is About To Explode  .::. Size~: 145.06 KBOct 17 22:40
*ThistleWeb has quit ("Lost terminal")Oct 17 22:40
yuhong_I am trying to look up when they added it to Semprons.Oct 17 22:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #Fedora #GNU #Linux for Widely-distributed #Subnotebooks http://smparrish.livejournal.com/9513.htmlOct 17 22:40
phIRCeTitle: The ramblings of a mad man - A new release of F11 for the XO-1 has hit the interwebs.  Build 8 now available. .::. Size~: 15.89 KBOct 17 22:41
Chips_B_Malroyso if you want virtualization in your cpu, you best buy a AMD chip right now, as Intel cpu's are a bit hard to figure if they have it or notOct 17 22:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Former SUSE Community Head Impressed by Clipperz (AGPLv3) http://bit.ly/JTOSxOct 17 22:41
phIRCeTitle: The Coolness of Clipperz « Reverend Teds Blog .::. Size~: 26.44 KBOct 17 22:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Revolution Reaches Hardware http://pcplus.techradar.com/node/3130/ (Warning: Microsoft banner noise)Oct 17 22:43
phIRCeTitle: Sharma: Open Source Hardware | PC Plus .::. Size~: 31.23 KBOct 17 22:43
yuhong_AMD added VT to Semprons in July 2009 with the AM3 Sargas core.Oct 17 22:44
yuhong_And true, they were indeed losing customers to AMD because of this, and XP mode in Win7 only made it worse.Oct 17 22:45
Chips_B_MalroySemprons are the low end, correct?Oct 17 22:45
yuhong_Yep.Oct 17 22:45
Chips_B_Malroyyes, now i see your tie in with win7.  And it does make senseOct 17 22:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Cisco Tries to Contain the #FreeSoftware Competition http://bit.ly/KI3nbOct 17 22:45
phIRCeTitle: Cisco Spots Opportunities, Challenges In Arizona | The VAR Guy .::. Size~: 54.54 KBOct 17 22:46
Chips_B_Malroymobile Intel cpu's were really hard to figure out if they supported virtuationOct 17 22:47
Chips_B_Malroystill areOct 17 22:47
yuhong_Yep, the laptop I am typing this on has a CPU that does not have VT.Oct 17 22:48
Chips_B_Malroyreason to ask for refund if its still within the time periodOct 17 22:49
yuhong_It isn't now.Oct 17 22:49
Chips_B_Malroyof course, too badOct 17 22:49
yuhong_Core 2 Duo E5250, has no VT.Oct 17 22:49
yuhong_But even laptops that had CPUs with VT, not all BIOS enabled it.Oct 17 22:49
Chips_B_Malroywonder if they crippled em on purpose, so people would have a reason to buy another later onOct 17 22:50
yuhong_Sony VAIO for example, did not.Oct 17 22:50
yuhong_Again we can thank XP mode for finally getting Sony to fix it on some of their laptops.Oct 17 22:51
Chips_B_Malroyand AMD competitionOct 17 22:51
yuhong_HP did not initally support it either, but they fixed it:Oct 17 22:52
Chips_B_Malroythe question is, how many of those Intel cpu's are still out in the channel, and still being put in computers still being built?Oct 17 22:52
yuhong_http://forums1.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/bizsupport/questionanswer.do?threadId=1051601Oct 17 22:52
phIRCeTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBOct 17 22:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux/Medical Promoters Carry on Pressuring for #FreeSoftware in #Healthcare http://ur1.ca/dtu0 http://ur1.ca/dtu1Oct 17 22:52
Chips_B_Malroythe ones without Virtualization, that isOct 17 22:53
yuhong_And on that matter, let me dig out some PCNs.Oct 17 22:53
*fewa (n=fewa@unaffiliated/fewa) has joined #boycottnovellOct 17 22:54
fewawow http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thR-lVuztIYOct 17 22:55
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - We Now Have A Total Gangster Government .::. Size~: 130.34 KBOct 17 22:55
fewano http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP4hYkfwuTYOct 17 22:55
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Bachmann: "Not All Cultures Are Equal" .::. Size~: 178.21 KBOct 17 22:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware #SharePoint Rivals Get Better http://ur1.ca/dtu6 http://ur1.ca/dtu8 #alfrescoOct 17 22:55
yuhong_Intel issued the version of the PCN to add VT to OEM version of Q8300, E7400, E7500, E5300, E5400 in April.Oct 17 22:56
phIRCeTitle: Image and Data Manager .::. Size~: 23.31 KBOct 17 22:56
DaemonFCI don't think I'll go back to IntelOct 17 22:56
DaemonFCI was really disappointed with Core 2Oct 17 22:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mainstream Press Heralds Growth of #FreeSoftware http://ur1.ca/dtub Mainstream Press Heralds Growth of Free Software http://ur1.ca/dtucOct 17 22:56
fewaEvery computer i have bought has been AMDOct 17 22:57
phIRCeTitle: The Calling for Open Source Innovation .::. Size~: 34.99 KBOct 17 22:57
fewaever since my first K7Oct 17 22:57
fewa*K6Oct 17 22:57
fewawait 7Oct 17 22:57
yuhong_April 15, 2009, to be more precise.Oct 17 22:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Wants Policy Change to Favour Free(dom) Software http://bit.ly/T5eswOct 17 22:57
yuhong_It says thatOct 17 22:57
Chips_B_MalroyI built one Intel system awhile back, and was not impressed with itOct 17 22:58
phIRCeTitle: BERNAMA - More Must Be Given To SMBs To Adopt Technology, Say IT Industry Members .::. Size~: 114.07 KBOct 17 22:58
yuhong_Date of First Availability of Post-Conversion Material: June 12, 2009Oct 17 22:58
DaemonFCfewa, I went K6/2, then Pentium 3 based Celeron, then Pentium 4 based Celeron, then a 64-bit Sempron (Athlon64 based), then upgraded that to an Athlon64 3200+ when Newegg had an OEM part for $25Oct 17 22:58
yuhong_Date Customer Must be Ready to Receive Post-Conversion Material: July 15, 2009Oct 17 22:58
DaemonFCthen I went to Core 2 Duo cause people were raving about how much better Intel had gottenOct 17 22:58
Chips_B_Malroyand for a 64bit Intel system, you expect it to have VTOct 17 22:58
yuhong_I know.Oct 17 22:58
DaemonFCnow I'm on Phenom II X4 945Oct 17 22:58
fewaPhenom 9550Oct 17 22:59
yuhong_Yes, I remember the TLB bug.Oct 17 22:59
yuhong_Now let me dig out the PCN that added it to retail processors.Oct 17 22:59
Chips_B_MalroyAlso, ATI has been very reliable for me, but NVidia seems to have too many problems of lateOct 17 22:59
yuhong_It was issued July 2, 2009.Oct 17 23:00
DaemonFCthe Phenom II's main differences are no TLB bug, 6 MB of L3 instead of 2 MB, and Cool N' Quiet for the entire CPU instead of per core cause Vista was running threads on idling cores on the old PhenomOct 17 23:00
DaemonFCso Phenom II fixes all the really aggravating shit of the original PhenomOct 17 23:00
yuhong_I know, Intel face the same problem with Turbo Mode.Oct 17 23:00
DaemonFCtheir TLB bug "patch" brought the performance of the original Phenom down by over 20%Oct 17 23:01
DaemonFCyou might as well not even apply it if you never have the system freeze issue anywayOct 17 23:01
yuhong_workaround actually.Oct 17 23:01
yuhong_B3 stepping has the fix.Oct 17 23:01
DaemonFCyeah, it disabled the TLB totallyOct 17 23:01
yuhong_Yep, B3 stepping fixed the bug properly.Oct 17 23:02
Chips_B_MalroyLinux is the fixOct 17 23:02
DaemonFCLinux just had a work around that didn't lead to as bad of a slowdown as the BIOS patchOct 17 23:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Serna #FreeLibre #XML #Editor v4.2 is Released http://bit.ly/3bFHP8Oct 17 23:02
phIRCeTitle: Syntext Released Serna Free Open Source XML Editor v4.2 .::. Size~: 9.75 KBOct 17 23:02
yuhong_Yep, AMD OSRC was able to create a patch to the Linux kernel that workaround the bug.Oct 17 23:03
*amarsh04 is glad to have skipped PIII, P4, Athlon entirely and has an Athlon64 dual core on the new machineOct 17 23:03
Chips_B_MalroyVi$ta is a virus, or soon to be infected with oneOct 17 23:03
DaemonFCamarsh04, The Pentium 3 wasn't a bad CPUOct 17 23:03
fewadefective by designOct 17 23:03
amarsh04only when pushed to 1.13 GHzOct 17 23:03
DaemonFCthe Pentium 4 was awful thoughOct 17 23:03
DaemonFCthe Pentium 4 line was what let AMD get the better of themOct 17 23:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #BT 's Head of #FreeSoftware Innovation and #Portland State University Endorse Free Software http://ur1.ca/dtur http://ur1.ca/dtusOct 17 23:03
fewavista is a beastOct 17 23:03
phIRCeTitle: Open Source Will Change Enterprises, Says BT Guru - News - eWeekEurope.co.uk .::. Size~: 23.57 KBOct 17 23:03
phIRCeTitle: Portland State University using Drupal | Dries Buytaert .::. Size~: 12.36 KBOct 17 23:04
fewarapidOct 17 23:04
fewa*rabidOct 17 23:04
yuhong_Yep, and don't forget the Itanium too.Oct 17 23:04
fewa:POct 17 23:04
fewaItanicOct 17 23:04
DaemonFCfewa, Vista is like 10% more of a workload than XP on a system that's 10 times faster than the one I had a few years agoOct 17 23:04
DaemonFCI really don't think it matters a lotOct 17 23:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenOffice .org is Having a #Renaissance at Age 9 http://ur1.ca/dtux http://ur1.ca/dtuzOct 17 23:04
phIRCeTitle:  | Moved by Freedom - Powered by Standards .::. Size~: 23.21 KBOct 17 23:05
fewaDaemonFC, only if you have 3 GB or RAMOct 17 23:05
fewafor the OSOct 17 23:05
DaemonFCI have 8 GBOct 17 23:05
fewame tooOct 17 23:05
DaemonFC+ 1 GB on the GPUOct 17 23:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FSF / #GNU Grants #FreeSoftware Awards http://bit.ly/42pgs5Oct 17 23:05
phIRCeTitle: Free Software Award Season - Free Software Foundation .::. Size~: 25.53 KBOct 17 23:06
yuhong_Found the retail PCN.Oct 17 23:06
yuhong_Opening it.Oct 17 23:06
yuhong_Both Date Customer Must be Ready to Receive Post-Conversion Material:Oct 17 23:06
Chips_B_MalroyDaemonFC>  sorry to hear about your heath problems, I hope you feeling better these days.Oct 17 23:06
yuhong_And Date of First Availability of Post-Conversion Material:Oct 17 23:06
DaemonFCthanks, actually, I'm almost feeling normal right nowOct 17 23:07
yuhong_Says August 03, 2009.Oct 17 23:07
DaemonFCI'd give it another week or soOct 17 23:07
yuhong_I have 1.5 GB of RAM, and Vista can be slow on my computer.Oct 17 23:07
yuhong_But I have a lot of software installed.Oct 17 23:07
Chips_B_MalroyAlso I completely agree with you about the lack of medical for our country.Oct 17 23:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Palm Obeys the #GPL http://ur1.ca/dtv7 http://ur1.ca/dtv9Oct 17 23:07
phIRCeTitle: Palm Pre GSM source code now available - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 25.41 KBOct 17 23:07
phIRCeTitle: Harald Welte's blog .::. Size~: 19.92 KBOct 17 23:08
*iKonaK (n=user-0@89.137.173.224) has joined #boycottnovellOct 17 23:08
yuhong_The interesting thing about both PCNs is that the stepping did not change.Oct 17 23:08
DaemonFCChips_B_Malroy, I keep saying that the government needs to seize the drug companies and shut down the insurance companiesOct 17 23:08
yuhong_Only way to tell is by the product code or by the S-step.Oct 17 23:08
DaemonFCthat's what they'd do if they were really working for usOct 17 23:08
Chips_B_MalroyYES!Oct 17 23:08
yuhong_I would not go that far.Oct 17 23:08
fewayuhong_, with Linux, you are good to goOct 17 23:09
yuhong_But I agree about the need for more competition.Oct 17 23:09
DaemonFCthe only way to fix that mess is to shut them downOct 17 23:09
*iKonaK has quit (Client Quit)Oct 17 23:09
Chips_B_Malroyinstead we see the media concern for what is to happen to these insurance companiesOct 17 23:09
fewaChips_B_Malroy, yepOct 17 23:09
yuhong_I know.Oct 17 23:09
fewathose poor billionaresOct 17 23:09
DaemonFCmaking them compete with a "public option" only works if the govt plan can compete for fair drug pricesOct 17 23:09
Chips_B_MalroyI say send the insurance companies leaders to jailOct 17 23:09
yuhong_I dual-boot Linux on this computer too.Oct 17 23:09
fewawith their 100million dollar salaries and bonusesOct 17 23:09
Chips_B_MalroyAIG got the bailoutOct 17 23:10
DaemonFCfewa, AmenOct 17 23:10
yuhong_Yep, the horrible thing called shareholder value.Oct 17 23:10
fewahttp://screencrave.com/2009-09-22/votd-help-will-ferrel-support-insurance-companies/Oct 17 23:10
DaemonFCthose bonuses would buy a lot of major surgeries and life saving medicineOct 17 23:10
phIRCeTitle: VOTD: Help Will Ferrel Support Insurance Companies& .::. Size~: 30.17 KBOct 17 23:10
DaemonFCinstead, the execs get to light their cigars on a fist full of $100 billsOct 17 23:10
yuhong_OF course.Oct 17 23:10
fewaPaid to deny care: woooo! cant get rid of thatOct 17 23:11
Chips_B_MalroyInsurance companines need to be done away with, they are just dishonest middlemenOct 17 23:11
yuhong_Yep, the nonsense called shareholder value, agency theory, and stock options.Oct 17 23:11
fewathe 40,000 a year that die due to not having health insuanceOct 17 23:11
Chips_B_Malroyand others sufferOct 17 23:11
fewaand then the government purposefully starts with "the public option"Oct 17 23:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] “Open Core” Disliked by #SFLC , Neglects Freedom Further http://bit.ly/HmToZOct 17 23:11
fewainstead of single payerOct 17 23:11
phIRCeTitle: &ldquo;Open Core&rdquo; Is the New Shareware - Bradley M. Kuhn ( Brad ) ( bkuhn ) .::. Size~: 20.81 KBOct 17 23:12
yuhong_Yep, it shows how horrible the idea called shareholder value, agency theory, and stock options are.Oct 17 23:12
fewalets defend the right for insuance companies to deny care!Oct 17 23:12
DaemonFCinsurance companies get paid the big bucks to put you in worse health then drop you just before you're about to die on themOct 17 23:12
fewalets protect the right for insurance companies to take 30% in profit and overheadOct 17 23:12
fewa!!!Oct 17 23:12
yuhong_I know.Oct 17 23:12
yuhong_Yep, it shows how horrible the idea called shareholder value, agency theory, and stock options are.Oct 17 23:12
Chips_B_MalroyBut I do have one problem with what might come out of congress.  If it becomes mandiatory "insurance," that is not going work.  The people who do not have insurance now cannot afford it, so only a public plan works.Oct 17 23:13
fewaand the US pays twice the per capita cost for health care, and get lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality ratesOct 17 23:13
DaemonFCfewa, When I was insured by Cigna, they had an 800 number where you could call one of their nurses and tell them what your symptoms were over the phoneOct 17 23:13
fewaChips_B_Malroy, I am vouching for single payer, medicare for allOct 17 23:13
DaemonFCthey called iut a benefit, but it was really a way around HIPPA privacy lawsOct 17 23:13
fewamedicare works, it has problems, but it worksOct 17 23:13
fewaThe VA also worksOct 17 23:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free as in #Freedom ( #GPL ) Does Not Conflict with Moneymaking http://ur1.ca/dtvm http://ur1.ca/dtvnOct 17 23:13
Chips_B_MalroyFewa> yes, agreedOct 17 23:13
phIRCeTitle: Free, you say? - ZDNet.co.uk .::. Size~: 97.53 KBOct 17 23:14
phIRCeTitle: Danns Mighty Blog » GNU Four Freedoms Translation Attempt One - Cultivate Your Own Garden .::. Size~: 17.18 KBOct 17 23:14
fewaand is the only thing currently keeping down costsOct 17 23:14
DaemonFCMedicare can't negotiate for better drug pricesOct 17 23:14
DaemonFCthat's what's wrong with MedicareOct 17 23:14
fewawhy not expand it down to 55 year oldsOct 17 23:14
fewa40 year olds?Oct 17 23:14
Chips_B_MalroyThe medical establishments, hospitals, are all monopolies in the USAOct 17 23:14
Chips_B_Malroynon-profit is a scamOct 17 23:14
fewaChips_B_Malroy, doctors and nurses overwhelming support single payerOct 17 23:15
yuhong_Yep, I read mercola.com which has a lot on this topic.Oct 17 23:15
Chips_B_Malroythe cost of medical must come downOct 17 23:15
fewaits the drug monopolists, wall street, and CEOs that are against itOct 17 23:15
Chips_B_Malroyand hospitalOct 17 23:15
Chips_B_MalroyaOct 17 23:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware in #Mathematics and #Eigenlabs Introduction http://ur1.ca/dtvv http://ur1.ca/dtvwOct 17 23:15
phIRCeTitle: open...: Open Source Mathematics .::. Size~: 99.96 KBOct 17 23:15
phIRCeTitle: Eigenlabs to open source new music control protocol and API - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 28.13 KBOct 17 23:16
fewaany why wouldn't they be? they are making millions off of the worst health care system in the developed worldOct 17 23:16
fewa*billionsOct 17 23:16
fewaChips_B_Malroy, you can help with hospitals just by giving preventative careOct 17 23:16
yuhong_Yep, it shows how horrible the idea called shareholder value, agency theory, and stock options are.Oct 17 23:16
fewago into seniors homes and install a guard rail, and prevent a hospital visit over a fallOct 17 23:16
fewasomething like 70% of medicare hospital visits are over trips and fallsOct 17 23:16
fewayuhong_, not only is it a bad idea, but it doesn't existOct 17 23:17
fewathe US public spends >$30 billion/yr to NIH to develop medicines and drugsOct 17 23:17
fewafar more the the pharmaceuticals doOct 17 23:18
Chips_B_Malroythere was a time we could buy drugs online from Canada, but I think Bush and company stopped that,or at least tried toOct 17 23:18
Chips_B_Malroywas a lot cheaper tooOct 17 23:18
fewathen the public _pays gagain_ for the things they fundedOct 17 23:18
fewathrough monopoly pricing with patentsOct 17 23:18
Chips_B_MalroyyesOct 17 23:18
fewaWe would ssave immensely if we just increased public funding to 100%Oct 17 23:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Open Data and Open Access Make More Wins http://ur1.ca/dtvz http://ur1.ca/dtw1 http://ur1.ca/dtw2 http://ur1.ca/dtw4 http://ur1.ca/dtw5Oct 17 23:18
phIRCeTitle: OpenGeoData » OpenStreetMapS.org now owned by OSMF .::. Size~: 17.73 KBOct 17 23:19
phIRCeTitle: Digital Library .::. Size~: 36.66 KBOct 17 23:19
phIRCeTitle:  » Is open-access journal publishing a vanity publishing industry? The Occasional Pamphlet .::. Size~: 31.52 KBOct 17 23:19
phIRCeTitle: open...: The Commons Meme Becomes More Common .::. Size~: 94.77 KBOct 17 23:19
fewaand therefore  got rid of the excuse for monopoly pricingOct 17 23:19
phIRCeTitle: Back to the Future: 2020 Roadmap Updated - Community - ComputerworldUK .::. Size~: 80.31 KBOct 17 23:19
yuhong_Yep, the disaster that is the insurance companies shows how horrible the idea called "shareholder value" is.Oct 17 23:19
Chips_B_Malroybut why stop at medical?  why not complete care, add in dental, eye, and burialOct 17 23:19
fewayuhong_, but im showing that the state system of the government is equally responsibleOct 17 23:19
fewaChips_B_Malroy, that is what HR 676 doesOct 17 23:19
yuhong_I know, the government and the AMA protects the drug company monopoly in health care.Oct 17 23:20
schestowitzfewa: ta for the TY links. Will watch them shortly.Oct 17 23:20
fewaschestowitz, have you seen gray comments?Oct 17 23:21
yuhong_Think about it, insurance companies "maximize shareholder value" by denying care, which is ridicolous.Oct 17 23:21
fewahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-usmvYOPfcoOct 17 23:21
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Alan Grayson on the GOP Health Care Plan: "Don't Get Sick!  And if You Do Get Sick, Die Quickly!"' .::. Size~: 170.87 KBOct 17 23:21
yuhong_And "shareholder value" at it's worst.Oct 17 23:21
fewahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCAPX0RKwDU&feature=channel_pageOct 17 23:21
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Rep. Alan Grayson: "I apologize to the dead and their families" .::. Size~: 176.28 KBOct 17 23:22
fewahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ery7RZ4tZ2Y&feature=channel_pageOct 17 23:22
phIRCeTitle: YouTube - Alan Grayson: "If the President has a BLT tomorrow, the Republicans will try to ban bacon." .::. Size~: 173.73 KBOct 17 23:22
fewayuhong_, and maximize profits by minimizing competition, getting patentsOct 17 23:22
yuhong_Yep.Oct 17 23:22
fewaand congress gives it to themOct 17 23:23
yuhong_And old style PR made it worse.Oct 17 23:23
fewarepresenting the corporations, not their constituentsOct 17 23:23
yuhong_Yep, based on broadcasting a message.Oct 17 23:23
fewacapital flight is the worstOct 17 23:23
fewayou cant lets the investor class move money from one place to another at willOct 17 23:23
fewathey will use it to crush popular uprisings and instill controllOct 17 23:24
fewait creates a "virtual senate"Oct 17 23:24
fewaand beg for corporate welfaceOct 17 23:24
fewa*welfareOct 17 23:24
fewablackmailing municipalities for low tax ratesOct 17 23:24
fewawhich are not given to small businessesOct 17 23:25
yuhong_Needless to say, the better big companies consider it a horrible idea.Oct 17 23:25
yuhong_Like Google, Costco, and more.Oct 17 23:25
fewabut many are designed to instill controllOct 17 23:25
Chips_B_Malroyand when you allow non-citizens to join your military, to fight for you, and you give them a green card as a incentive to join.  Look at the Roman Empire at the end, those fighting for it were not RomansOct 17 23:25
fewaa corporation is a tyrannyOct 17 23:25
fewait is not a democracyOct 17 23:25
fewasmall business are the basis of society, not large tyrannysOct 17 23:26
yuhong_I know, but I am talking about shareholer value.Oct 17 23:26
Chips_B_MalroyCorporations have taken over control of the USA, last time Sherman Antitrust laws were effective, was against Ma BellOct 17 23:28
yuhong_I know.Oct 17 23:28
Chips_B_MalroyOr rather I should say, those who control the wealth of the corporationsOct 17 23:28
yuhong_And that can be bad when they control what is supposed to check them.Oct 17 23:28
yuhong_Like the drug companies control the FDA>Oct 17 23:28
yuhong_Like the drug companies control the FDA;.Oct 17 23:28
fewaChips_B_Malroy, Sherman Antitrust needs a qui tam provisionOct 17 23:30
fewathe problem is that enforcement is political, it is only done by the executive, the presidentOct 17 23:30
Chips_B_Malroyyou are absolutely correctOct 17 23:30
fewaand when we have presidents that repeatedly say "lets look to the future, the past is behind us"Oct 17 23:30
fewait just doesn't workOct 17 23:30
fewathat is code word for: we wont prosecute you if you have political swayOct 17 23:31
fewalike the tortureOct 17 23:31
yuhong_I know, my favorite is Ron Paul.Oct 17 23:31
fewaThe US government torturesOct 17 23:31
fewaand the executive has said that this is OKOct 17 23:31
fewathat they wont prosecute itOct 17 23:31
yuhong_I know.Oct 17 23:32
fewatelling us that we should use the constitution as a piece of toilet paperOct 17 23:32
fewamore executive power, it is OK to wiretap people, it is OK to arrest people for using twitter, it is OK to torture, it is OK to have undeclared warOct 17 23:33
Chips_B_Malroyany system that would require a payroll deduction for mandiatory private insurance will be a disasterOct 17 23:33
yuhong_I know, my favorite is Ron Paul, because he believe none of these..Oct 17 23:34
fewa*ok to institute dragnet survillenceOct 17 23:34
fewaRon Paul is consistantOct 17 23:34
Diablo-D3ron paul has a humungous dickOct 17 23:34
fewabut he doesn't understand corporate power, IMHOOct 17 23:34
Diablo-D3why else would the rest of congress hate him?Oct 17 23:34
fewahe talks about contract rightsOct 17 23:34
Chips_B_Malroyhis vice presidental running mate was a good one tooOct 17 23:34
fewaas a panaceaOct 17 23:35
yuhong_Yep, I donOct 17 23:35
schestowitz[23:34] <Diablo-D3> ron paul has a humungous dickOct 17 23:35
schestowitzLanguage warningOct 17 23:35
yuhong_Yep, I don't remember the name, but another president do understand it.Oct 17 23:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Google Takes Microsoft's Business http://ur1.ca/dtwv Google drives Microsoft *MAD*!Oct 17 23:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] listened to all of new order "singles"; their 1998 reformation was a net minus to musicOct 17 23:35
yuhong_Yep, I don't remember the name, but another running president do understand it.Oct 17 23:36
phIRCeTitle: Monash University migrates 58,000 students to Gmail - gmail, Google, live@edu, Monash University - Techworld .::. Size~: 58.9 KBOct 17 23:36
fewaThe democrats promised that they would pass the Employee Free Choice ActOct 17 23:36
fewabut everyone has been completely silentOct 17 23:36
Chips_B_MalroyThey hate Paul because Paul does not want to spend money.  Taxpayers money on frious thingsOct 17 23:36
fewait needs to come to a voteOct 17 23:36
fewasenators need to be forced to take a position, show if they are actually democratsOct 17 23:36
Chips_B_MalroySpending money is power.  Spending money means kickbacks and lobbingOct 17 23:36
Chips_B_MalroylobbyingOct 17 23:36
Chips_B_Malroyand contributionsOct 17 23:37
yuhong_Yea, I know about when that was interpheted as "free speech".Oct 17 23:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Liberates EBooks / Ereaders http://ur1.ca/dky0 http://ur1.ca/dtwxOct 17 23:37
phIRCeTitle: OpenInkpot: free software for e-book readers [LWN.net] .::. Size~: 24.61 KBOct 17 23:37
phIRCeTitle: The New York Times > Log In .::. Size~: 9.74 KBOct 17 23:38
Chips_B_Malroywhy else do most western countries have to borrow money all the time?Oct 17 23:39
Chips_B_Malroyits why they hate himOct 17 23:39
yuhong_I know.Oct 17 23:39
DaemonFC"Every time we get close to passing reform, the insurance companies produce these phony studies as a prescription and say, 'Take one of these, and call us in a decade.' Well, not this time," Obama saidOct 17 23:39
DaemonFChttp://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN17525473Oct 17 23:39
Chips_B_MalroyPaul is the exception in Congress when it comes to spending moneyOct 17 23:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #YouTube Frees Video, #MAFIAA Fights Back http://ur1.ca/dtx0 http://ur1.ca/dtx1Oct 17 23:39
phIRCeTitle: YouTubes Bandwidth Bill Is Zero. Welcome to the New Net | Epicenter | Wired.com .::. Size~: 80.67 KBOct 17 23:39
phIRCeTitle: Public Knowledge Tells FCC Movie Industry Plan for Set-Top Boxes Will Hurt Consumers | Public Knowledge .::. Size~: 20.56 KBOct 17 23:40
fewaKucinichOct 17 23:40
fewaPaul doesn't support single payer health careOct 17 23:40
fewasingle payer health care is the only way to get comparable care to other countriesOct 17 23:41
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellOct 17 23:41
fewaHR676 will cover dental, optical, long term , hospital, preventative care, etcOct 17 23:41
Chips_B_Malroyhe is for small government, not increasing the size, and for indivual liberatiesOct 17 23:41
fewathe Congressional Progressive Caucus is behind itOct 17 23:41
Chips_B_Malroybut not for health careOct 17 23:41
fewaChips_B_Malroy, small government means big corporationsOct 17 23:41
fewait just doesn't workOct 17 23:42
fewalook at FDR and the new dealOct 17 23:42
fewathat workedOct 17 23:42
fewathe longest period of growth in historyOct 17 23:42
fewamassive increase in living standardsOct 17 23:42
Chips_B_MalroyI only saying that Paul is the best of the Republicans, most likelyOct 17 23:42
fewaFDR wanted a right to health care amended to the constitutionOct 17 23:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Intellectual Monopolies at WIPO Challenged Severely http://ur1.ca/dtxj http://ur1.ca/dtxkOct 17 23:42
phIRCeTitle: Genetic Resources and Traditional Knowledge: Can the New WIPO Mandate Deliver on Biopiracy? «  Ideas in Development .::. Size~: 29.64 KBOct 17 23:42
phIRCeTitle: Intellectual Property Watch  » Blog Archive   » European Union Prepares A New Intellectual Property Rights Strategy .::. Size~: 31.09 KBOct 17 23:43
fewaChips_B_Malroy, well, yes, i see Paul, along with former Arlen specterOct 17 23:43
fewaas the few consistant and principaled conservativesOct 17 23:43
Chips_B_Malroybut I agree that health care is necessaryOct 17 23:43
fewaChips_B_Malroy, what will do when you get sick?Oct 17 23:43
fewaand you have no money?Oct 17 23:43
Chips_B_MalroydieOct 17 23:43
fewayesOct 17 23:43
fewayou proove Grayson's pointOct 17 23:43
fewaDont get sickOct 17 23:44
fewaand if you get sick...Oct 17 23:44
yuhong_I still remember the Mackey/Whole Foods boycott that was exactly about this.,Oct 17 23:44
fewadie quicklyOct 17 23:44
fewaevery other developed country provides health careOct 17 23:44
Chips_B_Malroybest you can do without health care, is to go to Mexico, health and dental care there is very cheap compared to what we haveOct 17 23:44
fewaand they do it at _immensely_ lower costs, with better outcomeOct 17 23:44
fewaChips_B_Malroy, same in canada, germany, UK, FranceOct 17 23:44
fewaand you dont have to travelOct 17 23:44
fewaand you _pay less_Oct 17 23:45
yuhong_I still remember the Mackey/Whole Foods boycott that was exactly about health care and insurance companies.Oct 17 23:45
fewapeople are not looking at thatOct 17 23:45
Chips_B_Malroylots lessOct 17 23:45
fewathey pay less!!!Oct 17 23:45
fewathe market is inefficientOct 17 23:45
Chips_B_Malroyits not a free market for a long long timeOct 17 23:45
fewaadminitrative overhead alone for the private pay or die system in the US is $200 billionOct 17 23:45
fewaalso, "small government" is kinda wrongOct 17 23:46
fewathe big corps are governmentsOct 17 23:46
yuhong_It was so ridicoulous that it led to a formal "buycott".Oct 17 23:46
fewathey are tyrannical governmentsOct 17 23:46
yuhong_I know.Oct 17 23:46
yuhong_And many of the ones that are effectively governments are horrible.Oct 17 23:46
fewaWhat we need in the US is a new dealOct 17 23:47
fewamedicare has 4% overheadOct 17 23:47
fewaand doctors never have to worry about getting paidOct 17 23:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #CentOS: Best Server and Also Free of Charge http://bit.ly/4qa7M9Oct 17 23:47
oiaohmhttp://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix  Open source Nvidia driver is getting there slowly.Oct 17 23:47
phIRCeTitle: nouveau Wiki - FeatureMatrix .::. Size~: 26.72 KBOct 17 23:47
fewathey dont have to spend lots of money and time billion a gazillion of health insurers that complicate paperwork as much as possibleOct 17 23:48
phIRCeTitle: Oracle and Novell Linux: Caught between a Red Hat and a CentOS | The Open Road - CNET News .::. Size~: 123.78 KBOct 17 23:48
Chips_B_Malroydo not worry about doctors pay, they make a lot of moneyOct 17 23:48
fewa^^^Oct 17 23:48
fewadoctors often do not get paid from private inurersOct 17 23:48
fewaInsurance companies make money not providing health coverageOct 17 23:48
fewathe system is flawed, and it was designed to be flawedOct 17 23:48
Chips_B_Malroyof courseOct 17 23:48
fewaby ReagenOct 17 23:48
fewaits in SickoOct 17 23:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Samba 's Allison Truly Wakes People up Regarding the #Mono Trap http://www.itwire.com/content/view/28570/1090/Oct 17 23:48
Chips_B_Malroybefore thenOct 17 23:48
fewabut he perfected large company control over itOct 17 23:49
fewabefore that it was decentralizedOct 17 23:49
fewaoiaohm, yeah i used it, except for 3D it is much better than "nv"Oct 17 23:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #Linux Server Matures, #SUSE Linux Enterprise 10 Gets SP3 http://ur1.ca/djq3 http://ur1.ca/dtxzOct 17 23:50
fewaThe _only_ solution for health care in this country is a single payer systemOct 17 23:50
phIRCeTitle: Ubuntu Linux Server Simplifies the Cloud - Linux and Unix .::. Size~: 85 KBOct 17 23:51
phIRCeTitle: Novell pushes SUSE Linux Enterprise 10 SP3 - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 24.68 KBOct 17 23:51
fewathe car companies see that, manufacturing companies see thatOct 17 23:51
fewathey go to Canada, cause health care is cheaperOct 17 23:51
Chips_B_Malroythe private insurance companies must be broken out of the market for health care to workOct 17 23:51
fewaif you want industry in the US you need a single payer systemOct 17 23:51
fewayou need to get private insurers out of the market of health careOct 17 23:51
fewathey don't provide anythingOct 17 23:52
Chips_B_MalroyyesOct 17 23:52
fewanot a single checkupOct 17 23:52
Chips_B_Malroythey provide overheadOct 17 23:52
fewaWe need another new dealOct 17 23:52
fewaanother CCCOct 17 23:52
fewaanother WPAOct 17 23:52
fewamore Boniville power Administrations, Public energy programs, (new deal was dams) strem restorationOct 17 23:53
fewaleveesOct 17 23:53
fewabridgesOct 17 23:53
fewaetc, etcOct 17 23:53
oiaohmChips_B_Malroy: private insurance has it place.  USA system has it badly stuffed up.Oct 17 23:53
Chips_B_Malroyyes, the TVA was actually one of the best things FDR didOct 17 23:53
fewaand the BPA which is biggerOct 17 23:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Glyn Moody Exposes Self-serving Scams in The #GatesFoundation http://ur1.ca/dptk #ip #RockefellerOct 17 23:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Gates' gimmick of becoming a philantropist repeats the Rockefeller scam almost one to one a century later." http://ur1.ca/dty6Oct 17 23:53
fewabut somehow never gets mentionedOct 17 23:53
phIRCeTitle: open...: Gates Gives $300 million - but with a Catch .::. Size~: 105.58 KBOct 17 23:53
phIRCeTitle: Dark cloud over good works of Ga .::. Size~: 6.89 KBOct 17 23:54
fewaGrand Coolee damnOct 17 23:54
fewaalso Garbanes-OxleyOct 17 23:54
fewawhich Clinton repealed!Oct 17 23:54
fewawhat a democrat :(Oct 17 23:54
fewathats one of the big things that led to the financial meltdownOct 17 23:54
fewait prevent banks from gambling Oct 17 23:55
fewaby seperating banks from investment firmsOct 17 23:55
Chips_B_MalroyNorth American Trade Agreement was Clintion's biggest failureOct 17 23:55
fewaalso thatOct 17 23:55
fewathis is a government of the peopleOct 17 23:55
fewa*is notOct 17 23:55
fewaNAFTA was widely against public opinionOct 17 23:55
Chips_B_MalroyMonica was best thing Clinton ever did.  (sorry, I had to use that joke)Oct 17 23:55
fewaalso, out of " North American Trade Agreement", only the words "North American" are accurateOct 17 23:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Incompetence Leads to Critical Flaws, by Admission http://ur1.ca/dtycOct 17 23:56
phIRCeTitle:  Programmer slip-up produces critical bug, Microsoft admits .::. Size~: 136.07 KBOct 17 23:56
fewaread adam smithOct 17 23:56
fewaa free market cannot exist without free movement of laborOct 17 23:57
Chips_B_Malroyyes, but you cannot compete with someone in China making 25 cents an hour.   Its why manufacturing jobs here diedOct 17 23:58
fewaChips_B_Malroy, yes, but it is not empericalOct 17 23:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Gives Apple's Proprietary Software Precedence Over #FOSS http://ur1.ca/dtygOct 17 23:58
fewaIts a labor inequalityOct 17 23:58
phIRCeTitle:   Microsoft Lets Safari Beat FireFox in Europe, FireFox Furious .::. Size~: 68.27 KBOct 17 23:58
fewaChina is an opressive governmentOct 17 23:59
fewathey have no environmental regulationOct 17 23:59
Chips_B_Malroyeven the auto companies used more and more parts made overseas, and robotic assembly lines with fewer human workersOct 17 23:59
fewathey are building coal power plants and creating a massive environmental crisisOct 17 23:59

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