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| _Hicham_ | senior schestowitz | Oct 31 00:08 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | Hey, what's up? | Oct 31 00:10 |
| schestowitz | MUTEX is back as docmartin | Oct 31 00:11 |
| _Hicham_ | why does he come here ? | Oct 31 00:13 |
| _Hicham_ | I miss this channel | Oct 31 00:13 |
| ThistleWeb | he has no friends | Oct 31 00:14 |
| ThistleWeb | he mistakes the attention he gets here as having some | Oct 31 00:14 |
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| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Why do people hack on #hardware no one cares about? http://ur1.ca/etq8 #nvidia | Oct 31 00:15 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: NVIDIA ION LE hack adds DirectX 10 support, raises interesting questions .::. Size~: 129.56 KB | Oct 31 00:15 |
| schestowitz | Where's tacone? | Oct 31 00:17 |
| schestowitz | Can someone here translate Italian? | Oct 31 00:17 |
| otro_viajero7 | credo di potter farlo | Oct 31 00:18 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: you're the polyglot... | Oct 31 00:18 |
| schestowitz | otro_viajero7: http://www.mercatoglobale.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=760&Itemid=29 | Oct 31 00:18 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Open Office: oltre il 50% delle aziende lo usa - MG News : informazioni, analisi, commenti, esperienze: Homepage .::. Size~: 15.62 KB | Oct 31 00:18 |
| otro_viajero7 | wait some time :) | Oct 31 00:19 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Android #ARM #netbook http://ur1.ca/etqe | Oct 31 00:20 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Android-Based Asus Smartbook Arrives Early Next Year - Asus Android Netbook Smartbook - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 63.27 KB | Oct 31 00:20 |
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| cubezzz | evitare l'uso di Microsoft | Oct 31 00:22 |
| schestowitz | otro_viajero7: thanks a lot | Oct 31 00:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | [amsg] team fortress 2 is $2.50 until 7pm PDT on Steam | Oct 31 00:32 |
| cubezzz | ah, I don't really like bsd-games | Oct 31 00:38 |
| cubezzz | too old | Oct 31 00:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: ? | Oct 31 00:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: wtf are you talking about now? | Oct 31 00:39 |
| cubezzz | just some old bsd code I'm playing around with | Oct 31 00:40 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #TeamFortress2 is now $2.50 on #Steam until 7pm PDT, works on #Wine for most people | Oct 31 00:40 | |
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| _Hicham_ | hi oiaohm | Oct 31 00:43 |
| oiaohm | Hi _Hicham_ disappearing for lunch. | Oct 31 00:43 |
| oiaohm | Just had to send a message to someone. | Oct 31 00:43 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Now in English: #Survey in #Italy Says #OpenOffice .org Usage in 50% of Companies, #GNU #Linux at 63% http://ur1.ca/etsy | Oct 31 01:06 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Survey in Italy: OpenOffice.org Usage in 50% of Companies, GNU/Linux at 63% | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.25 KB | Oct 31 01:06 |
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| oiaohm | Something is off with those numbers you would be expecting openoffice uptake to be larger than Linux. | Oct 31 01:11 |
| schestowitz | Usually Linux users also use OOo | Oct 31 01:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft , #Ask , and the #AstroTurf Against #Yahoo Remembered http://ping.fm/nWb82 | Oct 31 01:18 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft, Ask, and the AstroTurf Against Yahoo! Remembered | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 118.37 KB | Oct 31 01:18 |
| _goblin | Anyone here testing Google Wave? | Oct 31 01:24 |
| cubezzz | I don't use OO that much | Oct 31 01:24 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: I used it a /few/ times | Oct 31 01:31 |
| schestowitz | to open presentations mailed to me for fun | Oct 31 01:32 |
| cubezzz | 63% of companies using GNU/Linux is an encouraging stat | Oct 31 01:33 |
| cubezzz | that's actually higher than I would expect | Oct 31 01:33 |
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| *shreddar has done the system update to kubutu 9.10 (even though it started out as Ubuntu) | Oct 31 01:36 | |
| shreddar | I'm glad I did it as opposed to doing it from scratch. | Oct 31 01:37 |
| shreddar | My computer is still as usable as it was before the update, which is to say that the update didn't screw it up any worse than th "Computer Janitor" fiasco. | Oct 31 01:39 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: use at some capacity | Oct 31 01:40 |
| shreddar | I just had to reset a couple of setting and redo some firefox profiles. (partly as a result of using Shiretoko and Firefox separately.) | Oct 31 01:40 |
| schestowitz | Even dual-boot would count, I think | Oct 31 01:40 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: see Vista 7 'upgrades' | Oct 31 01:41 |
| schestowitz | It won't work | Oct 31 01:41 |
| schestowitz | Clean install is needed | Oct 31 01:41 |
| schestowitz | So even those complaining about "broken wifi" or whatever ought to see what happened in MSLand | Oct 31 01:42 |
| schestowitz | Same with Vista | Oct 31 01:42 |
| schestowitz | As for Apple, they have limited hardware | Oct 31 01:42 |
| cubezzz | there is no perfect system | Oct 31 01:42 |
| schestowitz | They can test exhaustively | Oct 31 01:42 |
| shreddar | My update seems to have made KDE's Network Manager less buggy. I still think it's too early to tell for sure though. | Oct 31 01:43 |
| shreddar | Before the update I was using gnome session manager applet in KDE | Oct 31 01:44 |
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| shreddar | or whatever it's called | Oct 31 01:44 |
| shreddar | nm-applet is the program name. | Oct 31 01:45 |
| shreddar | don't need it so far. | Oct 31 01:45 |
| shreddar | I kinda miss the black theme it used to have but I'm not to bothered by the new one. | Oct 31 01:46 |
| shreddar | Anyway I get to use the real firefox 3.5 now so that's sort of a added plus. | Oct 31 01:47 |
| schestowitz | Air is just defauly | Oct 31 01:50 |
| schestowitz | Change to Oxygen (I did) | Oct 31 01:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GatesFoundation Accused of Faking/Fabricating Data to Advance Political Goals http://ping.fm/dPdBF | Oct 31 01:51 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Gates Foundation Accused of Faking/Fabricating Data to Advance Political Goals | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 112.81 KB | Oct 31 01:51 |
| schestowitz | desktop-context menu->desktop settings | Oct 31 01:51 |
| schestowitz | Theme: Oxygen | Oct 31 01:51 |
| shreddar | schestowitz thanks. That's better. | Oct 31 01:52 |
| _Hicham_ | too bad that ubuntu 9.10 doesn't offer seamonkey 2.0 | Oct 31 01:53 |
| schestowitz | I've installed Neon Glow | Oct 31 01:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] http://twitpic.com/nlygw - Got Kubuntu 9.10 nearly how I want it. Out with Kwin + Konquerer and in with Compiz and Chromium! | Oct 31 01:55 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Got Kubuntu 9.10 nearly how I want it. Out with Kwin + Konqu... on Twitpic .::. Size~: 7.38 KB | Oct 31 01:55 |
| _goblin | My DE is starting to look sexy over on Kubuntu 9.10 | Oct 31 01:55 |
| schestowitz | Wow | Oct 31 01:57 |
| schestowitz | "Tragedy" is a nice theme | Oct 31 01:57 |
| _goblin | tragedy? | Oct 31 01:57 |
| shreddar | I wish Chromium/Chrome used QT instead of GTK then we might have atleast one good browser that integrates well with KDE. | Oct 31 01:57 |
| _goblin | I'll give it a look | Oct 31 01:57 |
| _goblin | whats wrong with its KDE integration? | Oct 31 01:57 |
| _goblin | had no issues whatsoever | Oct 31 01:58 |
| shreddar | Have you tried saving a page? | Oct 31 01:58 |
| _goblin | nope | Oct 31 01:59 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: yes, try it | Oct 31 01:59 |
| schestowitz | Hit the "get more themes" thing | Oct 31 01:59 |
| _goblin | ok... | Oct 31 01:59 |
| _goblin | ok saved.... | Oct 31 01:59 |
| schestowitz | ALso, make wallpapers change every 1 minute | Oct 31 01:59 |
| shreddar | Ok Chrome is actually alot better integrated than firefox. | Oct 31 01:59 |
| _Hicham_ | chromium doesn't support client certificates | Oct 31 01:59 |
| schestowitz | It fades in and out during transition. Couldn't be done in kde4 | Oct 31 01:59 |
| schestowitz | *kde3 | Oct 31 01:59 |
| _Hicham_ | chromium doesn't support ftp protocol | Oct 31 02:00 |
| _goblin | no probs with saving page | Oct 31 02:00 |
| _Hicham_ | chromium still "snaps" on some pages | Oct 31 02:00 |
| _goblin | and yes Hicham I noticed that... | Oct 31 02:00 |
| shreddar | Save page as | Oct 31 02:00 |
| _goblin | I did.... | Oct 31 02:00 |
| _goblin | I saved my blog page... | Oct 31 02:00 |
| _goblin | no probs. | Oct 31 02:00 |
| _Hicham_ | chromium integrates nicely with gnome | Oct 31 02:00 |
| shreddar | What dialog poped up? | Oct 31 02:00 |
| _Hicham_ | it has gnomevfs support | Oct 31 02:01 |
| _goblin | Nautilus | Oct 31 02:01 |
| _Hicham_ | and support native theme | Oct 31 02:01 |
| _goblin | I think | Oct 31 02:01 |
| _goblin | one option missing no exporting of favorites... | Oct 31 02:01 |
| shreddar | It's not that big of a deal but sometime using to filemanagers can sometime get confusing. | Oct 31 02:02 |
| _goblin | Ive changed my filemanager could that be why Ive got no problems? | Oct 31 02:02 |
| shreddar | two firemanagers | Oct 31 02:02 |
| _goblin | Ive loved Nautilus since 8.04LTS | Oct 31 02:02 |
| shreddar | two filemanagers | Oct 31 02:02 |
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| _Hicham_ | nautilus on KDE ? | Oct 31 02:02 |
| _goblin | yep | Oct 31 02:02 |
| _Hicham_ | why ? | Oct 31 02:03 |
| _Hicham_ | konqueror is more powerful | Oct 31 02:03 |
| _goblin | all my Gnome favs.... | Oct 31 02:03 |
| _goblin | Konqueror...mmmm didnt like.....I like a simplistic windowsish window (if you see what I mean) | Oct 31 02:03 |
| _goblin | compiz replaced kwin | Oct 31 02:03 |
| _Hicham_ | compiz is best | Oct 31 02:04 |
| _goblin | but hey im using more KDE than I was 2 weeks ago! | Oct 31 02:04 |
| _goblin | Im going for a Ksmoke .....brb | Oct 31 02:04 |
| _Hicham_ | I just Gsmoked | Oct 31 02:04 |
| shreddar | I have to admit currently nautilus is currently better than konqueror. | Oct 31 02:08 |
| shreddar | Mostly because of the quick find thing. | Oct 31 02:09 |
| shreddar | But konqueror never froze my computer because I went to a directory with thumbnails | Oct 31 02:10 |
| _goblin | Ive noticed with naut every so often when I try draging a media file into a player it looses focus and tries to copy it.... | Oct 31 02:11 |
| shreddar | speaking of nautilus seems to have done a better job this time in using my KDE theme. | Oct 31 02:12 |
| _goblin | I like it because its simple and clean....Im sure I could config others to my liking...but better the devil you know... | Oct 31 02:12 |
| shreddar | I've been thinking this for awhile now, KDE instead of creating a separate app for a file manager they should have created a separte app for web browsing. | Oct 31 02:16 |
| shreddar | Konquerer has always been better as a file manager. | Oct 31 02:17 |
| shreddar | It's funny that so many people prefer is to dolphin. | Oct 31 02:17 |
| shreddar | I also find it silly that Konquerer has a up button but dolphin doesn't. | Oct 31 02:18 |
| shreddar | Dolphin should have a Up button. Konquerer if it was a proper web browser shouldn't. | Oct 31 02:19 |
| shreddar | One of the first things I did is add a up button in Dolphin. | Oct 31 02:20 |
| shreddar | It's very obvious to me that the KDE folks had it backward on this one. | Oct 31 02:21 |
| schestowitz | I just use Konq | Oct 31 02:21 |
| shreddar | for what? | Oct 31 02:21 |
| shreddar | everything? | Oct 31 02:21 |
| schestowitz | yes | Oct 31 02:24 |
| shreddar | I can't stand Konq as a web browser but as file manager it's pretty good. | Oct 31 02:24 |
| schestowitz | konqueror just needs a good editor now | Oct 31 02:24 |
| shreddar | I just seems too incomplete to me. | Oct 31 02:26 |
| cubezzz | ever try MUDs? | Oct 31 02:28 |
| shreddar | MUDs? | Oct 31 02:29 |
| cubezzz | Multi User Dungeon | Oct 31 02:30 |
| shreddar | no | Oct 31 02:30 |
| _goblin | was a big MUD fan years ago | Oct 31 02:31 |
| _goblin | the dungeon variety I mean | Oct 31 02:31 |
| cubezzz | I used to play Pyroto Mountain in the BBS days | Oct 31 02:32 |
| cubezzz | but it seems to have disappeared | Oct 31 02:32 |
| _goblin | ah..the BBS.....happy times! | Oct 31 02:32 |
| shreddar | I heard people are doing that stuff in Google Wave now. | Oct 31 02:33 |
| cubezzz | in the browser or..? | Oct 31 02:33 |
| shreddar | Well, yeah in a browser. It has to support certain HTML 5 features though. | Oct 31 02:34 |
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| _goblin | I need some Wave contacts :( that I already know! | Oct 31 02:34 |
| cubezzz | some windows types have been talking about utherverse but it's windows only so... | Oct 31 02:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Familiar Villains: #Apple and #Blackboard Attack #Linux / #FreeSoftware Again http://ping.fm/zlbsK | Oct 31 02:36 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Familiar Villains: Apple and Blackboard Attack Linux/Free Software Again | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 113.07 KB | Oct 31 02:36 |
| schestowitz | gn | Oct 31 02:36 |
| cubezzz | later | Oct 31 02:36 |
| _goblin | gn | Oct 31 02:36 |
| cubezzz | well can't join google wave | Oct 31 02:37 |
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| shreddar | why not? | Oct 31 02:57 |
| shreddar | Nevermind it's not out yet | Oct 31 02:57 |
| shreddar | It's invitation only | Oct 31 02:58 |
| shreddar | I wonder if people will still uses it for MUDs when it's open for the public. | Oct 31 02:58 |
| shreddar | or Roleplaying | Oct 31 02:59 |
| shreddar | I myself have never done that sort of thing. | Oct 31 02:59 |
| shreddar | I mainly play arcade type games. | Oct 31 03:00 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] The future of mass construction http://ur1.ca/ety4 #science | Oct 31 03:00 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Toyota's Carbon Fiber Loom Is One of the Most Stunning Pieces of Machinery I've Ever Seen - Carbon Fiber Loom - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 62.05 KB | Oct 31 03:00 |
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| DaemonFC | I'm going to leave Wells Fargo real soon | Oct 31 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | I'm getting tired of their crap | Oct 31 03:21 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/181094/icann_approves_domain_names_we_cant_type.html | Oct 31 03:25 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: ICANN Approves Domain Names We Can't Type - Business Center - PC World .::. Size~: 38.17 KB | Oct 31 03:25 |
| Will | I haven't heard anything recently about the i4i case. Anyone know what the situation with that is presently? | Oct 31 03:28 |
| DaemonFC | the Canadian patent troll | Oct 31 03:31 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.itbusiness.ca/it/client/en/home/News.asp?id=54792 | Oct 31 03:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: i4i could sue many more vendors if it wins Microsoft case, say experts .::. Size~: 29.74 KB | Oct 31 03:32 |
| DaemonFC | There’s no telling when the court will issue its decision. But if Microsoft loses its appeal, i4i may be able to sue a wide array of other software vendors, says Bhupinder Randhawa, an IP lawyer with Bereskin & Parr LLP. | Oct 31 03:32 |
| DaemonFC | “The use of XML is ubiquitous now and (the patented method) is the main purpose of XML,” he says. “There will probably be a number of places they find infringements.” | Oct 31 03:32 |
| DaemonFC | Will, It's a frivolous patent | Oct 31 03:33 |
| DaemonFC | as frivolous as any software patent can get | Oct 31 03:33 |
| DaemonFC | people are just rooting for them right now because they went after Microsoft first | Oct 31 03:33 |
| Will | Well, Microsoft has been one of the most aggressive in lobbying for software patents. If they want them so badly, should they not also have to abide by them? | Oct 31 03:36 |
| DaemonFC | Will, Yes and No | Oct 31 03:37 |
| DaemonFC | Yes as in, that would be nice if they got sued by the same laws they promote and nobody else was hurt | Oct 31 03:37 |
| DaemonFC | but that's not the case | Oct 31 03:38 |
| DaemonFC | so No, because I'm hoping they fight and get the patent declared void and unenforceable because then i4i will crawl back under the rock they came out of and not hurt anyone else | Oct 31 03:38 |
| DaemonFC | Will, The problem with this is that they could also sue Mozilla over XUL | Oct 31 03:39 |
| DaemonFC | they could sue Sun over OpenOffice and StarOffice | Oct 31 03:39 |
| DaemonFC | they could sue anyone who distributes OOo or StarOffice | Oct 31 03:39 |
| Will | From what I read, it sounded more like a case of Microsoft directly putting them out of business with the old triple-e plan than them just going after companies to make money | Oct 31 03:40 |
| DaemonFC | they could sue Apple for iLife | Oct 31 03:40 |
| Will | And they've already said that ODF doesn't infringe. | Oct 31 03:40 |
| DaemonFC | if Microsoft does not stop them, a lot of other companies will be hurt | Oct 31 03:40 |
| DaemonFC | and i4i will keep getting unfair "damages" awarded to them | Oct 31 03:40 |
| DaemonFC | Will, Of course they say that | Oct 31 03:40 |
| Will | so how is OpenOffice/StarOffice not safe again? | Oct 31 03:40 |
| DaemonFC | would you openly admit your product "might" or "does" infringe? | Oct 31 03:41 |
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| DaemonFC | Like asking for a lawsuit | Oct 31 03:41 |
| Will | i4i said that, not Sun. | Oct 31 03:41 |
| DaemonFC | Will, They still aren't going to be held to that | Oct 31 03:41 |
| DaemonFC | and they never said XUL doesn't infringe | Oct 31 03:42 |
| DaemonFC | when it does | Oct 31 03:42 |
| DaemonFC | I think XUL likely infringes the patent | Oct 31 03:42 |
| DaemonFC | who says they won't sue Mozilla and harm their products and their users? | Oct 31 03:42 |
| DaemonFC | I think any software patent should be fought to the end | Oct 31 03:43 |
| DaemonFC | just because of the potential of cascading lawsuits | Oct 31 03:43 |
| Will | The best solution is just to realize that math shouldn't be patented, to put it simply. | Oct 31 03:43 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=113960&videoChannel=5 | Oct 31 03:47 |
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| oiaohm | XML it self is 1996 but its ideas track back to way earlier. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Html If anything they are trying to patent existed in early html there patent claim is invalid DaemonFC | Oct 31 04:30 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: HTML - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 156.56 KB | Oct 31 04:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: uh, you fail | Oct 31 04:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | you really meant "sgml" | Oct 31 04:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | and xml doesnt replace it, it only complements it | Oct 31 04:30 |
| oiaohm | No sgml is younger. | Oct 31 04:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | html is sgml you nimrod. | Oct 31 04:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | it was originally standardized in 1986 | Oct 31 04:31 |
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| Diablo-D3 | its probably older than DaemonFC | Oct 31 04:31 |
| oiaohm | First emails about it don't refer to it as sgml. | Oct 31 04:31 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENQUIRE << That evil. | Oct 31 04:31 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Enquire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 19.8 KB | Oct 31 04:31 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, No | Oct 31 04:32 |
| DaemonFC | if it was 1986, then I'm two years older | Oct 31 04:32 |
| ender2070 | your born in 84 ? | Oct 31 04:33 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Oct 31 04:33 |
| ender2070 | neat | Oct 31 04:33 |
| ender2070 | me too | Oct 31 04:33 |
| DaemonFC | the last HTML I wrote was 3.2 | Oct 31 04:33 |
| DaemonFC | in Notepad on Windows 98 | Oct 31 04:33 |
| ender2070 | ooooooooooooooold | Oct 31 04:33 |
| ender2070 | i dont know what version html i was writing back in the day | Oct 31 04:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | I still write html | Oct 31 04:34 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070, There was no good way to write a web page, because there were no standards compliant browser | Oct 31 04:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | in fact | Oct 31 04:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im actually back to writing sgml html again | Oct 31 04:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | due to 5 | Oct 31 04:34 |
| ender2070 | 1996 I was using super old notepad from win 3.x | Oct 31 04:34 |
| DaemonFC | anything you did to make it work in IE pissed off Netscape, and vice versa | Oct 31 04:34 |
| ender2070 | i coded my sites for netscape | Oct 31 04:35 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070, At the time, Opera was the most standards compliant browser (still is I think) | Oct 31 04:35 |
| DaemonFC | but most people had IE | Oct 31 04:35 |
| ender2070 | i hated ie | Oct 31 04:35 |
| ender2070 | always | Oct 31 04:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | msie wasnt even really around when I used to do webdesign | Oct 31 04:36 |
| DaemonFC | the difference in standards compliance between Gecko (Mozilla), Opera, and Webkit is significant, but negligible compared to how far behind IE is from any of them | Oct 31 04:36 |
| ender2070 | my noob design was done using netscape communicator 3 gold | Oct 31 04:36 |
| DaemonFC | so you're best off to use pretty much anything but IE, doesn't even matter what you use, just that it isn't IE | Oct 31 04:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah really | Oct 31 04:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont even bother checking if my shit works in msie anymore | Oct 31 04:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | msie is back to being used by no one | Oct 31 04:37 |
| ender2070 | i used opera too | Oct 31 04:37 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, IE 8 probably stands the best chance | Oct 31 04:37 |
| ender2070 | my first pc was a 386 with 8mb of ram, i had to use opera to browse with any speed at all | Oct 31 04:37 |
| DaemonFC | it has plenty of rendering bugs even in things MS claims 100% support for, but all the really stupid shit is fixed | Oct 31 04:37 |
| DaemonFC | IE 6 was a total nightmare | Oct 31 04:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: no, 9 | Oct 31 04:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: the msie microsoft is going to cancel because it uses webkit | Oct 31 04:38 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: So just putting a detect in page for IE users and display insteal google plugin ? | Oct 31 04:38 |
| DaemonFC | IW will never use Webkit | Oct 31 04:38 |
| DaemonFC | *IE | Oct 31 04:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: thats up to them | Oct 31 04:38 |
| oiaohm | Simple fact now Webdevelopers can force IE to DaemonFC | Oct 31 04:38 |
| DaemonFC | though Trident is probably not worth fixing | Oct 31 04:38 |
| DaemonFC | oh, Chrome Tab or whatever? | Oct 31 04:39 |
| ender2070 | trident is a joke | Oct 31 04:39 |
| ender2070 | lol | Oct 31 04:39 |
| oiaohm | Chrome frame is what you are thinking of DaemonFC | Oct 31 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070, Trident is a lot like a 20 year old car that Microsoft puts new spark plugs on now and then | Oct 31 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | it's just hillariously old | Oct 31 04:39 |
| ender2070 | microsoft didnt even invent it | Oct 31 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | things are breaking left and right | Oct 31 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | but those new spark plugs, you know.... | Oct 31 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | platinum tipped | Oct 31 04:40 |
| oiaohm | MS double crossed the maker of it ender2070 | Oct 31 04:40 |
| oiaohm | Basically forcing them out of business. | Oct 31 04:40 |
| oiaohm | So leaving them with a secound rate product. | Oct 31 04:40 |
| ender2070 | well | Oct 31 04:40 |
| ender2070 | they gave it away for free to avoid paying royalties | Oct 31 04:40 |
| oiaohm | Early spyglass trident was a prity good engine in its day. | Oct 31 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, Trident was based on a lot of assumptions about web pages and how they are styled that are no longer true | Oct 31 04:41 |
| DaemonFC | and haven't been for years | Oct 31 04:41 |
| oiaohm | No money no maintaining to keep it current its now completely crap. | Oct 31 04:41 |
| oiaohm | Its like if you tryed using early netscape on modernday websites. | Oct 31 04:42 |
| oiaohm | Don't work that great. | Oct 31 04:42 |
| ender2070 | yeah its bad | Oct 31 04:42 |
| ender2070 | i tried netscape 3 a while ago | Oct 31 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | I was using Mozilla Suite for a long time | Oct 31 04:42 |
| DaemonFC | way before it was an end user product | Oct 31 04:42 |
| ender2070 | yeah | Oct 31 04:43 |
| oiaohm | ender2070: MS double cross ie giveing IE away for free. Has hurt them long term. | Oct 31 04:43 |
| DaemonFC | Netscape was too old to use, IE was crap, Opera was payware that misrendered a lot of sites | Oct 31 04:43 |
| ender2070 | yeah netscape 5-6 was aweful too | Oct 31 04:44 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, Well, their marketshare continues to dissolve about 1% every month | Oct 31 04:44 |
| DaemonFC | IE's share has been in decline every month since 2004 | Oct 31 04:44 |
| oiaohm | MS also had the idea being incompadible they could take over the internet. | Oct 31 04:44 |
| ender2070 | firefox has helped the web a lot | Oct 31 04:44 |
| DaemonFC | it's at 65% now from an all time high of like 96% | Oct 31 04:44 |
| DaemonFC | IE is not free, it's built in to the cost of Windows | Oct 31 04:45 |
| tessier | Firefox is kicking ass | Oct 31 04:45 |
| *Diablo-D3 builds chrome. | Oct 31 04:45 | |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft raised the price of Windows by $10 when IE was added to OEM updates of Windows 95 | Oct 31 04:45 |
| ender2070 | firefox is kicking ass, unfortunately its getting bloated and too mainstream | Oct 31 04:45 |
| oiaohm | Yep EULA on IE makes it techincally illegal to use on wine. | Oct 31 04:45 |
| oiaohm | Due to wine not being MS windows. | Oct 31 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | the question being why you would | Oct 31 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | people don't even want it on Windows | Oct 31 04:46 |
| ender2070 | hahahaha | Oct 31 04:46 |
| ender2070 | lol | Oct 31 04:46 |
| oiaohm | Some people have to deal with sites that are IE only. | Oct 31 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | Linux is stagnant, but people are abandoning IE left and right | Oct 31 04:46 |
| oiaohm | But they are getting less. | Oct 31 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | so Firefox is not benefitting Linux, it's just what people are using on Windows in place of IE | Oct 31 04:46 |
| ender2070 | IE only sites? not many out there these days | Oct 31 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070, My bank was blocking Opera til I sent them a letter | Oct 31 04:47 |
| ender2070 | i'd block opera too | Oct 31 04:47 |
| DaemonFC | they stopped blocking it after arguing with me through back and forth emails for a few rounds | Oct 31 04:47 |
| oiaohm | My bank told me to use IE under wine at one point after locking up a server following the instructs they gave me they decided to support firefox. | Oct 31 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | Opera was capable of displaying the sites functions, they just assumed it wasn't an IE or Firefox user agent | Oct 31 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | so they'd send you to an upgrade your browser page | Oct 31 04:48 |
| oiaohm | Big thing is been some web developers saying enough and not coding for IE anymore. | Oct 31 04:49 |
| oiaohm | More that it happens less IE will have market. | Oct 31 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, Cause they know they don't have to | Oct 31 04:49 |
| ender2070 | I used to think opera was alright | Oct 31 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox has been an effort to dumb down Mozilla Suite so that your average moron can use it | Oct 31 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | unfortunately it's also where all the efforts go anymore | Oct 31 04:50 |
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| Will | schestowitz: http://it.slashdot.org/story/09/10/30/223238/After-1-Year-Conficker-Infects-7M-Computers?art_pos=4 | Oct 31 04:50 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Slashdot IT Story | After 1 Year, Conficker Infects 7M Computers .::. Size~: 129.38 KB | Oct 31 04:50 |
| Will | schestowitz: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/10/30/2148214/Wait-For-Windows-7-SP1-Support-Firm-Warns-Users?art_pos=5 | Oct 31 04:51 |
| ender2070 | speaking of browsers | Oct 31 04:51 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Slashdot Technology Story | Wait For Windows 7 SP1, Support Firm Warns Users .::. Size~: 151.77 KB | Oct 31 04:51 |
| ender2070 | kubuntu's firefox is broken | Oct 31 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | I haven't had that many problems from Windows 7 for an RTM version | Oct 31 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070, of course it is | Oct 31 04:51 |
| ender2070 | DaemonFC - what do you mean "of course it is" | Oct 31 04:51 |
| Will | ender2070: how so? (haven't run kubuntu much) | Oct 31 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070, I've encountered a lot of Firefox bugs on Kubuntu | Oct 31 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | I use Opera on it | Oct 31 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | the Opera 10.10 builds have a QT4 option even | Oct 31 04:52 |
| oiaohm | Its not pure Firefox DaemonFC ubuntu guys put in a few patches. | Oct 31 04:52 |
| ender2070 | Will - left mouse button randomly stops doing anything, i was just watching flash and the video froze, made firefox respond very slowly and almost crashed | Oct 31 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070, yeah, that's the annoying one | Oct 31 04:53 |
| DaemonFC | the flash buttons not working | Oct 31 04:53 |
| ender2070 | not just the flash buttons | Oct 31 04:53 |
| Will | ender2070: out of curiosity, have you tried Swiftfox on it? | Oct 31 04:53 |
| ender2070 | though, thats where I first noticed it | Oct 31 04:53 |
| ender2070 | i dont use swiftfox | Oct 31 04:53 |
| Will | ok. I hadn't heard of it until recently. | Oct 31 04:54 |
| ender2070 | kubuntu 9.10 is what im running | Oct 31 04:54 |
| Will | ender2070: I'd been planning to try out kde soon. Does this look like a kubuntu thing or a kde thing? | Oct 31 04:54 |
| ender2070 | kubuntu thing | Oct 31 04:55 |
| ender2070 | fedora 11 + kde worked fine for me | Oct 31 04:55 |
| Will | ok. Not really surprised I guess. | Oct 31 04:55 |
| ender2070 | im not surprised either | Oct 31 04:55 |
| ender2070 | i tried kubuntu 9.04 and it had issues too | Oct 31 04:56 |
| ender2070 | not the same issues, different ones | Oct 31 04:56 |
| ender2070 | hmmm | Oct 31 04:57 |
| ender2070 | my video issue might be the nouveu driver | Oct 31 04:57 |
| Will | We really need a forefront KDE distro the way Ubuntu is for Gnome. Until Canonical supports it (not likely anytime soon) Kubuntu will never be that. Mandriva maybe? | Oct 31 04:57 |
| ender2070 | mandriva = ftl | Oct 31 04:57 |
| Will | ender2070: I'm not sure the nouveu is ready for prime time yet | Oct 31 04:57 |
| Will | ft1? | Oct 31 04:58 |
| ender2070 | FTL | Oct 31 04:58 |
| ender2070 | for the lose | Oct 31 04:58 |
| ender2070 | best kde distro i've currently had the experience of running was fedora ironically | Oct 31 04:58 |
| Will | ender2070: I started with Mandriva, but left around 2005. | Oct 31 04:59 |
| Will | ender2070: Fedora always has random issues with my hardware, and never the same issues from release to release. | Oct 31 04:59 |
| oiaohm | Will kubuntu pushed out 4.x line too soon. | Oct 31 04:59 |
| ender2070 | Will - I stopped using Mandriva when powerpack came with fake extras | Oct 31 04:59 |
| ender2070 | oiaohm - kubuntu 9.04 had 4.x already | Oct 31 05:00 |
| oiaohm | As KDE 4.x matures what distributions provide will become less important. | Oct 31 05:00 |
| oiaohm | 9.04 4.2 and 9.10 4.3 does not have KDE system mangement tools back. | Oct 31 05:00 |
| ender2070 | nobody pushed 4.x too soon, its too late imo | Oct 31 05:00 |
| ender2070 | kubuntu is a piece of shit | Oct 31 05:01 |
| ender2070 | no matter what its released with | Oct 31 05:01 |
| oiaohm | KDE 3.5 has a lot of system management tools that KDE 4.x line has not had ported yet. | Oct 31 05:01 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu did not fill the gaps in. | Oct 31 05:01 |
| ender2070 | ubuntu just takes what the debian guys have compiled for kde and slap their shit on it | Oct 31 05:02 |
| ender2070 | they barely do anything to it and it shows | Oct 31 05:02 |
| oiaohm | And future KDE distributions should not have todo anything. | Oct 31 05:02 |
| ender2070 | fuck kde 3.5 | Oct 31 05:03 |
| Will | oiaohm: Kubuntu's problem predates KDE 4.0. It's always played second fiddle to the orange and brown one. | Oct 31 05:03 |
| Will | which wouldn't be so bad if there was another KDE distro out there that was to KDE as Ubuntu is to Gnome | Oct 31 05:03 |
| ender2070 | it wasnt till I used fedora with kde when i finally realized it wasnt kde 4 that was broken, it was kubuntu | Oct 31 05:04 |
| oiaohm | fedora is running lot of the development tree KDE 4.x parts. | Oct 31 05:04 |
| ender2070 | and as a result it works | Oct 31 05:04 |
| ender2070 | the redhat kde team doesn't mess around | Oct 31 05:05 |
| oiaohm | But in time those parts will move out of the development tree ender2070 | Oct 31 05:05 |
| oiaohm | So lifting all the laging KDE distributions. | Oct 31 05:05 |
| Will | oiaohm: well, maybe I'll continue the bi-annual game I play with Fedora releases. I call it "Will it boot?" | Oct 31 05:05 |
| ender2070 | lol | Oct 31 05:05 |
| ender2070 | a good example is this | Oct 31 05:06 |
| ender2070 | fedora 11 originally shipped with kde 4.2 | Oct 31 05:06 |
| ender2070 | when 4.3 came out, after some time they had an update for 11 that gave you 4.3 | Oct 31 05:06 |
| ender2070 | for kubuntu, you got an experiemental repo, and it broke everything | Oct 31 05:06 |
| oiaohm | There was a experiemental repo for Fedora as well for KDE 4.3 | Oct 31 05:07 |
| ender2070 | yeah there was | Oct 31 05:08 |
| ender2070 | for testing it | Oct 31 05:08 |
| oiaohm | Most fedora users were not dumb enough to touch it. | Oct 31 05:08 |
| ender2070 | fedora 11 users who updated their systems got 4.3 a few weeks after it was out | Oct 31 05:08 |
| oiaohm | And suffered the same issues as kubuntu. | Oct 31 05:08 |
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| ender2070 | not at all | Oct 31 05:08 |
| ender2070 | kubuntu never moved 4.3 to its normal users | Oct 31 05:08 |
| ender2070 | you had to wait for 9.10 | Oct 31 05:08 |
| oiaohm | It was out before 4.3 was released for fedora ender2070 | Oct 31 05:09 |
| ender2070 | read what im typing | Oct 31 05:09 |
| oiaohm | kubuntu delayed the introduction point. | Oct 31 05:09 |
| ender2070 | fedora 11 released with kde 4.2, kde 4.3 came out, fedora made an experimental repo for testing, when testing was done they pushed it was a normal update for normal f11 users | Oct 31 05:10 |
| oiaohm | Yet then 9.10 includes the prototype netbook plasma interface from 4.4. Yep its flashy is it sane or not Ubuntu will include it. | Oct 31 05:10 |
| ender2070 | literally if you install fedora 11 kde and do an update, you'll have 4.3 | Oct 31 05:11 |
| oiaohm | The way it should be. | Oct 31 05:11 |
| ender2070 | exactly | Oct 31 05:11 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu works on the theory of setting in stone for 6 months. | Oct 31 05:11 |
| ender2070 | kubuntu doesnt do that | Oct 31 05:11 |
| ender2070 | you can "try out the next version" using their experimental repo, but nothing works properly | Oct 31 05:12 |
| oiaohm | Fedora is a incermental upates. | Oct 31 05:12 |
| ender2070 | fedora is just better overall | Oct 31 05:12 |
| oiaohm | Note both ideas have there downsides. | Oct 31 05:12 |
| oiaohm | Sometimes fedoras incermental will kick you badly. | Oct 31 05:12 |
| ender2070 | it depends | Oct 31 05:13 |
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| ender2070 | it doesnt have a nice nvidia installer either | Oct 31 05:13 |
| ender2070 | like ubuntu | Oct 31 05:14 |
| ender2070 | but | Oct 31 05:14 |
| ender2070 | thats also a blessing cause theres a 3rd party repo that always has the latest driver for the latest fedora kernel | Oct 31 05:14 |
| oiaohm | I was talking about application breakage. | Oct 31 05:15 |
| ender2070 | i haven't had any of that | Oct 31 05:15 |
| oiaohm | I have had complex ldap http and login setups. | Oct 31 05:15 |
| ender2070 | ahhhh | Oct 31 05:15 |
| oiaohm | One bit out major ouch. | Oct 31 05:15 |
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| Will | ender2070: ever tried Linux Mint KDE? I wonder if it might be sufficently more polished than Kubuntu. But then, it takes so long to come out that the next Ubuntu release is usually close by then. | Oct 31 05:16 |
| oiaohm | those areas 6 month lock pattern is nice ender2070 | Oct 31 05:16 |
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| ender2070 | oiaohm - i dont like it, means im waiting 6 months for an upgrade | Oct 31 05:16 |
| Will | Wishful thinking, but I'd love to see another "Canonical" emerge to make an officially sponsored KDE-centric Debian-based distro. | Oct 31 05:18 |
| oiaohm | ender2070: stablity of running vs having latest | Oct 31 05:18 |
| oiaohm | It all depends what you are doing what one you like ender2070 | Oct 31 05:18 |
| ender2070 | oiaohm - correct, i like the latest and greatest on my laptop | Oct 31 05:19 |
| oiaohm | Will: I would personally like to see the idea of distribution importance disappear. | Oct 31 05:19 |
| oiaohm | Ie KDE and Gnome provide all the configuration tools you ever need so just leaving distributions to theme. | Oct 31 05:19 |
| ender2070 | oiaohm - it will never go away | Oct 31 05:19 |
| oiaohm | Why not ender2070 | Oct 31 05:20 |
| oiaohm | Have you not noticed what policykit and dbus are upto. | Oct 31 05:20 |
| ender2070 | oiaohm - there wont be a distro that can satisfy 100% of its users | Oct 31 05:20 |
| ender2070 | if bandwidth was cheaper, i'd have my own | Oct 31 05:21 |
| oiaohm | Is there any reason for users need different configuration tools between distributions ender2070 | Oct 31 05:21 |
| ender2070 | oiaohm - depends on what the distro needs to achieve | Oct 31 05:21 |
| oiaohm | Between interfaces yes. But not really between distributions. | Oct 31 05:21 |
| oiaohm | Because almost every distribution out there overlaps with at least 3 others. | Oct 31 05:22 |
| Will | at most, maybe a simple/advanced config window that can be toggled. | Oct 31 05:22 |
| oiaohm | If distributions were unique then unique configuration tools would have reasons. | Oct 31 05:22 |
| ender2070 | oiaohm - I do believe they will work on making things more generic but not everything will get standardized | Oct 31 05:22 |
| ender2070 | packagekit is a good example | Oct 31 05:23 |
| oiaohm | packagekit is still forcing forwards. | Oct 31 05:23 |
| oiaohm | Few distributions are resisting. | Oct 31 05:23 |
| ender2070 | what do you do when your box has no gui | Oct 31 05:24 |
| oiaohm | The dbus items like package kit can have command line and web interfaces made. | Oct 31 05:24 |
| ender2070 | yeah but sometimes its easier just to "yum install whatever" | Oct 31 05:25 |
| oiaohm | They are just a generic back end allowing front ends to forget about how the distributions are doing things. | Oct 31 05:25 |
| oiaohm | No reason why a package kit command line frount end could not emulate yum | Oct 31 05:25 |
| ender2070 | i know | Oct 31 05:25 |
| oiaohm | major reason is sudo and su are not really that secure. | Oct 31 05:26 |
| ender2070 | su is fine | Oct 31 05:26 |
| oiaohm | No they are not. | Oct 31 05:26 |
| ender2070 | sudo isnt | Oct 31 05:26 |
| oiaohm | su and sudo don't audit the applications you are using and warn you if they have been altered. | Oct 31 05:27 |
| ender2070 | su wants your password every time | Oct 31 05:27 |
| ender2070 | well | Oct 31 05:27 |
| ender2070 | thats not 100% either | Oct 31 05:27 |
| oiaohm | policykit addes auditing. | Oct 31 05:27 |
| ender2070 | someone could replace your shell and fake authentication | Oct 31 05:27 |
| oiaohm | Having the password is pointless if you cannot control the application that needs the password. | Oct 31 05:28 |
| ender2070 | doesnt sound like you've used fedora in a while | Oct 31 05:28 |
| oiaohm | Current policykit in fedora is not running fully hardarded. | Oct 31 05:29 |
| oiaohm | Goal of policykit long term is to get everything accross so you can harden it. | Oct 31 05:29 |
| DaemonFC | I'd rather have Windows 2000 back than where MS is going | Oct 31 05:30 |
| oiaohm | Also policykit trips if you go to use an application you don't normally use to. | Oct 31 05:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | heh | Oct 31 05:30 |
| DaemonFC | everything is getting dumbed down and slower | Oct 31 05:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | I could technically run d3d 10 on win2k | Oct 31 05:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | use wine3d on it ;D | Oct 31 05:31 |
| oiaohm | Using MS crap on it you can run some d3d10 | Oct 31 05:32 |
| oiaohm | There is a d3d10 lib that wraps to dx 9 Diablo-D3 made by ms. | Oct 31 05:32 |
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| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: yeah, but thats kind of dumb | Oct 31 05:32 |
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| oiaohm | In theory dx 9 could have been used to do everythign dx 10 does. | Oct 31 05:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | and in reality, real men use opengl | Oct 31 05:33 |
| oiaohm | Other than composisted. | Oct 31 05:33 |
| oiaohm | Ie aero. | Oct 31 05:33 |
| ender2070 | yeah real men use opengl | Oct 31 05:33 |
| oiaohm | Just MS decide to use dx10 to force upgrade. | Oct 31 05:33 |
| oiaohm | Like they are trying to use dx11 now to force upgrade to windows 7. | Oct 31 05:34 |
| ender2070 | nah, vista being shitty is forcing an upgrade | Oct 31 05:34 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, wrong | Oct 31 05:36 |
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| DaemonFC | DirectX 11 is on Windows Update for Vista users | Oct 31 05:36 |
| oiaohm | Hmm they changed that DaemonFC. | Oct 31 05:39 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, It was on Windows Update yesterday morning | Oct 31 05:45 |
| DaemonFC | as part of the Vista Platform Update | Oct 31 05:45 |
| fewa | I remember there was a pdf that summarized all the large crimes Microsoft has commited | Oct 31 05:46 |
| fewa | ms-dos java etc | Oct 31 05:46 |
| fewa | and was very well written | Oct 31 05:46 |
| fewa | I think it was from the european case | Oct 31 05:47 |
| fewa | titles like "a hitory" or "a pattern of abuse" | Oct 31 05:47 |
| ender2070 | hehe | Oct 31 05:47 |
| fewa | dr-dos | Oct 31 05:47 |
| fewa | novell-word | Oct 31 05:47 |
| oiaohm | I got paper work from MS over 2 months ago saying Vista would not get DX11 DaemonFC so sometime between then and now they have changed mind. | Oct 31 05:51 |
| oiaohm | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgP2ubyzNLE LOL | Oct 31 05:55 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: YouTube - I m tux .::. Size~: 103.31 KB | Oct 31 05:55 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, probably decided it was to their advantage if they wanted DirectX 11 games to come to market faster | Oct 31 06:06 |
| DaemonFC | (or at all) | Oct 31 06:07 |
| fewa | schestowitz, http://boycottnovell.com/microsoft-critique-resources/ | Oct 31 06:15 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Critique: Resources | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 164.56 KB | Oct 31 06:16 |
| fewa | + http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~dicosmo/HoldUp/English/Hijacking_the_World.pdf | Oct 31 06:16 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Oct 31 06:16 |
| oiaohm | There are some direct x 11 games on way but they are mostly as part of cross framework engines DaemonFC | Oct 31 06:16 |
| fewa | AHA I found it | Oct 31 06:16 |
| fewa | + http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalversion_Consumerchoicepaper.pdf | Oct 31 06:16 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting application/pdf type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Oct 31 06:16 |
| fewa | thats the best summary I have read | Oct 31 06:17 |
| fewa | of microsoft anticompetitive behavior | Oct 31 06:17 |
| ender2070 | very nice | Oct 31 06:17 |
| fewa | well written and concise | Oct 31 06:17 |
| ender2070 | yes it is | Oct 31 06:18 |
| ender2070 | im going to study it | Oct 31 06:18 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, I don't expect that they're really going to require DirectX 11 hardware for some time | Oct 31 06:18 |
| ender2070 | dx11 hardware has been out for two years | Oct 31 06:18 |
| ender2070 | according to AMD, rofl | Oct 31 06:18 |
| DaemonFC | probably will be DirectX 10.1 with DirectX 11 features if you have the hardware | Oct 31 06:18 |
| ender2070 | oh im thining 10.1 actually nvm | Oct 31 06:18 |
| oiaohm | ender2070: AMD is correct. | Oct 31 06:19 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070, There's actually only a couple models of GPU that support DirectX 11 right now | Oct 31 06:19 |
| oiaohm | Most of Dx 11 features are GPU shader prep stuff. | Oct 31 06:19 |
| DaemonFC | though some DirectX 11 features work on 10.1 cards | Oct 31 06:19 |
| ender2070 | dx11 or 10 aside, nvidia still makes superior hardware | Oct 31 06:19 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly true ender2070 | Oct 31 06:20 |
| oiaohm | Both ATI and Nvidia gpus have there high performance point. | Oct 31 06:20 |
| ender2070 | to me the definition requires good linux drivers | Oct 31 06:20 |
| oiaohm | hyrdra tech exist to use both gpus with each other. I will love to see that come to Linux in time. | Oct 31 06:20 |
| ender2070 | all I can think of is CUDA | Oct 31 06:21 |
| ender2070 | and pyrite | Oct 31 06:21 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070, Since when? | Oct 31 06:22 |
| DaemonFC | I don't like Nvidia for a number of reasons | Oct 31 06:22 |
| DaemonFC | bad performance is just one of them | Oct 31 06:22 |
| ender2070 | lol simple fact, nvidia supports a lot more hardware with their latest drivers | Oct 31 06:23 |
| ender2070 | ati phases out older cards faster | Oct 31 06:23 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly ender2070 | Oct 31 06:23 |
| ender2070 | they are phasing out ati's competitor to the 8800 | Oct 31 06:24 |
| oiaohm | ATI is phasing out there old cards with long term goal of mostly phaseing out the closed source driver. | Oct 31 06:24 |
| fewa | open source drivers will be maintained | Oct 31 06:24 |
| ender2070 | ati's drivers have been slower | Oct 31 06:24 |
| fewa | but they will work | Oct 31 06:24 |
| fewa | unlike on windows where old hardware doesn't work with new version | Oct 31 06:24 |
| ender2070 | an 8800GT kills a 4850 by more than 50% in linux, and in windows the ati pwns it | Oct 31 06:24 |
| oiaohm | Note galuim3d project the core of the driver plain is planed to work on windows at some point. | Oct 31 06:24 |
| fewa | because its up to the hardware manufacturer | Oct 31 06:25 |
| oiaohm | But phasing out now is forcing people to work on the open source driver. | Oct 31 06:25 |
| oiaohm | yes call it long term plan with short term pain ender2070 | Oct 31 06:25 |
| ender2070 | ati's cuda clone sucks too | Oct 31 06:26 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, Why wouldn't older hardware work? | Oct 31 06:26 |
| oiaohm | opencl is the one of importance ender2070 | Oct 31 06:26 |
| DaemonFC | I've had systems that came with XP that still work fine with Windows 7 | Oct 31 06:26 |
| ender2070 | nah | Oct 31 06:26 |
| fewa | DaemonFC, becuase Microsoft is forced to change the driver model, and the hardware manufacture wont release drivers becuase they don't make any money unless you buy new hardware | Oct 31 06:26 |
| fewa | I've experienced this first hand | Oct 31 06:26 |
| ender2070 | AMD/ATI love M$ too much to help open source | Oct 31 06:27 |
| fewa | for example 32 to 64 bit | Oct 31 06:27 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, Which of my working hardware isn't supported? | Oct 31 06:27 |
| ender2070 | they just want people working on the OSS driver so they can cut costs, ati's going bankrupt | Oct 31 06:27 |
| fewa | DaemonFC, if its working it supported, lol | Oct 31 06:27 |
| oiaohm | ender2070: incorrect. | Oct 31 06:27 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, I haven't had any hardware that magically quit working that was working fine before | Oct 31 06:28 |
| ender2070 | oiaohm - prove it | Oct 31 06:28 |
| oiaohm | AMD likes the super computer market ender2070 | Oct 31 06:28 |
| ender2070 | oiaohm - AMD is a microsoft gold parnet | Oct 31 06:28 |
| ender2070 | partner | Oct 31 06:28 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070, I have all AMD/ATI in this system | Oct 31 06:28 |
| ender2070 | AMD was pushing microsoft and its products in retail | Oct 31 06:29 |
| oiaohm | AMD is also gold Linux foundation member http://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/members | Oct 31 06:29 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Members | The Linux Foundation .::. Size~: 31 KB | Oct 31 06:29 |
| oiaohm | Catch is ender2070 to get particular tech specs to build stuff for Windows you have to be Microsoft gold partner | Oct 31 06:29 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070, Just how do you propose I get 3d acceleration in an Nvidia card | Oct 31 06:29 |
| DaemonFC | without running a buggy binary blob? | Oct 31 06:29 |
| oiaohm | Yet AMD did not have to be a Linux foundation member ender2070 | Oct 31 06:30 |
| ender2070 | the buggy binary blob will perform a lot faster | Oct 31 06:30 |
| ender2070 | do you want performance? if not use nouveu | Oct 31 06:30 |
| oiaohm | galuim3d is required for performance ender2070 | Oct 31 06:31 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070, so I'm forced to make my system insecure, crashy, and impossible to debug in order to have full use of my Nvidia hardare? | Oct 31 06:31 |
| DaemonFC | Why not just use Windows? | Oct 31 06:31 |
| oiaohm | You need the instruction optmiser ender2070 | Oct 31 06:31 |
| DaemonFC | you get the same problems | Oct 31 06:31 |
| ender2070 | DaemonFC - then buy proper hardware | Oct 31 06:31 |
| DaemonFC | someone that wants to make a case for Linux should not be preaching the Nvidia schtick | Oct 31 06:31 |
| ender2070 | im not | Oct 31 06:32 |
| ender2070 | im saying they are better than ati | Oct 31 06:32 |
| ender2070 | its better to avoid both | Oct 31 06:32 |
| DaemonFC | of course, PaperWeight Linux | Oct 31 06:33 |
| DaemonFC | I've heard of that | Oct 31 06:33 |
| ender2070 | wait for intel larabee | Oct 31 06:33 |
| DaemonFC | Intel Extremely Bad Graphics | Oct 31 06:33 |
| ender2070 | intel's open source extremely bad graphics | Oct 31 06:34 |
| DaemonFC | meh | Oct 31 06:34 |
| DaemonFC | AMD kicks the crap out of them | Oct 31 06:34 |
| ender2070 | at least they contribute | Oct 31 06:34 |
| DaemonFC | either way | Oct 31 06:34 |
| oiaohm | Intel stuck to the X11 standard with there open source drivers. | Oct 31 06:34 |
| oiaohm | Yes the standard interfaces suxed. | Oct 31 06:34 |
| ender2070 | AMD is only making an open source driver to cut costs, to get someone else to do it. Currently they devote - ONE MAN - to write their linux drivers. | Oct 31 06:34 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, The integrated motherboard video is bullshit for performance | Oct 31 06:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: no | Oct 31 06:34 |
| DaemonFC | they don't really have trade secrets to worry about | Oct 31 06:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: they are not a software company | Oct 31 06:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: they _only_ want high quality code in the drivers for their hardware | Oct 31 06:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | ergo, fglrx needs to die | Oct 31 06:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | they inherited it from ati, it would have never happened if amd made the radeon to begin with | Oct 31 06:35 |
| ender2070 | where is the documentation then | Oct 31 06:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] Famous equation = e^(i*pi) = -1 = e^(i*x) = cos(x)+i*sin(x) = -1. You can stick anything in there for x. The pi was gratuitous all along. | Oct 31 06:36 | |
| Diablo-D3 | uh, downloadable off one of the DRI sites | Oct 31 06:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | its publically available | Oct 31 06:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | in fact, the DRI drives written using it are almost done | Oct 31 06:36 |
| ender2070 | so i can get public documentation for the 5870 ? | Oct 31 06:36 |
| ender2070 | nice | Oct 31 06:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | it hasnt been updated for 5xxx yet | Oct 31 06:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | but the changes in 5xxx are very small | Oct 31 06:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | the biggest changes in 5xxx are what has been removed, not added | Oct 31 06:36 |
| ender2070 | well this arguement isnt going anywhere | Oct 31 06:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | your argument isnt going anywhere because you're trying to slur AMD | Oct 31 06:37 |
| ender2070 | yeah | Oct 31 06:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | AMD is the largest pro-foss hardware company in the world | Oct 31 06:37 |
| ender2070 | AMD started sucking a few years ago | Oct 31 06:37 |
| ender2070 | they are not | Oct 31 06:37 |
| ender2070 | that is bs | Oct 31 06:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | Intel is not pro-foss | Oct 31 06:38 |
| ender2070 | you're right they aren't a software company, why wouldnt they push their software development to volunteers | Oct 31 06:38 |
| ender2070 | intel is pro foss | Oct 31 06:38 |
| oiaohm | ender2070: its a price that has had to be paid. | Oct 31 06:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | intel is pro dont give a shit | Oct 31 06:38 |
| ender2070 | they pay more to the linux foundation than amd | Oct 31 06:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: AMD is paying for the DRI drivers to be developed | Oct 31 06:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | and no, they can't release fglrx, they don't own some of the code | Oct 31 06:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | and they're not compatible with gallium3d anyhow | Oct 31 06:39 |
| ender2070 | they are paying for DRI so they dont have to write linux drivers anymore | Oct 31 06:39 |
| ender2070 | when a company is going bankrupt, the need to cut costs arises | Oct 31 06:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | they are paying for DRI because fglrx sucks dick and its impossible to save and its below AMD's allowable quality standards | Oct 31 06:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | AMD isnt going bankrupt, however | Oct 31 06:39 |
| ender2070 | how can they afford to contribute more money than intel when they have none | Oct 31 06:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | Intel, otoh, is | Oct 31 06:39 |
| oiaohm | AMD released as much docs as they can on there drivers ender2070 | Oct 31 06:40 |
| oiaohm | That is not cheep thing to do. | Oct 31 06:40 |
| ender2070 | why dont they release drivers | Oct 31 06:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: actually, its completely free | Oct 31 06:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: they dont own half of the code in the drivers, I juts said this | Oct 31 06:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | the code is also complete shit and useless | Oct 31 06:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not compatible with gallium3d | Oct 31 06:40 |
| oiaohm | No the docs have to be audited to make sure you don't release stuff from other companies you will get sued over Diablo-D3 | Oct 31 06:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | the drivers really do have to be rewritten from the ground up | Oct 31 06:41 |
| oiaohm | Auditing is a slow and painful process. | Oct 31 06:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: AMD is eliminating all of that anyhow | Oct 31 06:41 |
| ender2070 | lol ok | Oct 31 06:41 |
| oiaohm | Intel via and amd are all rewirting there video drivers for Linux basically from the ground up. | Oct 31 06:41 |
| oiaohm | X11 server internal designs were screwed. | Oct 31 06:42 |
| ender2070 | if you worried about closed i dont understand why you're all running proprietary hardware | Oct 31 06:42 |
| ender2070 | expecially when the open source driver gives you the performance of intel extreme graphics | Oct 31 06:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: are you kidding me? | Oct 31 06:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | the gallium3D radeon driver on modern hardware is faster than it is on windows | Oct 31 06:44 |
| ender2070 | what if you're running a 2600 | Oct 31 06:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | a what? | Oct 31 06:45 |
| ender2070 | ati 2600hd | Oct 31 06:45 |
| ender2070 | an older card | Oct 31 06:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | I wasnt aware there was a 2600 | Oct 31 06:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | huh, apparently there is | Oct 31 06:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | its a really cut down 2900 | Oct 31 06:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: either way, its a r600 | Oct 31 06:46 |
| DaemonFC | I have a 4670 1 GB GDDR3 | Oct 31 06:46 |
| DaemonFC | it's not bad for $70 | Oct 31 06:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: r600 (2xxx, 3xxx), r700 (4xxx), and r800 (5xxx) all use shaders to do everything | Oct 31 06:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: gallium3D is a framework to use gpgpu hardware to do stuff | Oct 31 06:46 |
| ender2070 | i've heard the 2xxx is being phased out by ati | Oct 31 06:47 |
| ender2070 | in their drivers | Oct 31 06:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | it is. | Oct 31 06:47 |
| DaemonFC | ender2070, The Geforce 9600 GT with 1 GB GDDR3 is $120 | Oct 31 06:47 |
| ender2070 | thats bullshit | Oct 31 06:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | but they're fazing out fglrx | Oct 31 06:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | so it doesnt matter | Oct 31 06:47 |
| ender2070 | that card came out less than 2 years ago | Oct 31 06:47 |
| DaemonFC | so an equal Nvidia card is about a third mroe expensive | Oct 31 06:47 |
| ender2070 | nvidia has more than one guy working on linux drivers | Oct 31 06:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: the only place this matters is on windows | Oct 31 06:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | and if you're on windows, thats your own fucking problem | Oct 31 06:48 |
| ender2070 | nah it matters on linux | Oct 31 06:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | if fglrx is gone, no, it doesnt matter. | Oct 31 06:48 |
| oiaohm | ender2070: main reason why the drivers have to be altered is 1 word virtulisation. | Oct 31 06:49 |
| ender2070 | in closed source drivers, ati vs nvidia, nvidia wins | Oct 31 06:49 |
| ender2070 | on all platforms | Oct 31 06:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | not really | Oct 31 06:49 |
| oiaohm | Incorrect depends on bench mark on windows particular benchs ATI wins. | Oct 31 06:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | I got rid of my nvidia hardware because the linux drivers are so fucking buggy | Oct 31 06:49 |
| ender2070 | fuck windows | Oct 31 06:49 |
| oiaohm | hydra platform was not developed for no reason ender2070 | Oct 31 06:49 |
| ender2070 | im talking oss platforms | Oct 31 06:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont know why anyone would want to game on windows | Oct 31 06:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | its kind of stupid | Oct 31 06:50 |
| oiaohm | Sooner the conversion of drivers complete the better. | Oct 31 06:51 |
| ender2070 | im tempted to think nvidia's will perform the best | Oct 31 06:52 |
| ender2070 | other than larabee's drivers whenever that thing is out | Oct 31 06:52 |
| oiaohm | Pure raw performane of the GPU's ATI beats Nvidias in some test cases. And nvidia beats ATI in others. | Oct 31 06:53 |
| oiaohm | Current problem on Linux is lack of good drivers to extract the ATI GPU power. | Oct 31 06:54 |
| ender2070 | oiaohm - the problem with ati is that you have to run the same benchmark 6 months later | Oct 31 06:54 |
| ender2070 | oiaohm - over time, nvidia's cards end up beating ati's through optimizations | Oct 31 06:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: larabee isnt a video card. | Oct 31 06:55 |
| oiaohm | ender2070: what does galuim3d do. | Oct 31 06:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | although, yes, gallium3D could very easily support it, all you need is a video output | Oct 31 06:55 |
| ender2070 | oiaohm - ati focuses on the latest cards optimizations, and such changes dont always apply to their old cards | Oct 31 06:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | they have a very beta driver for gallium3D that runs on PS3s | Oct 31 06:55 |
| oiaohm | gallium3d provides one optimisation engine for all cards ender2070 | Oct 31 06:55 |
| oiaohm | Ie via intel ati sharing the same engine. | Oct 31 06:56 |
| ender2070 | you're confusing what im saying | Oct 31 06:56 |
| oiaohm | You are not hearing what I am saying. | Oct 31 06:56 |
| oiaohm | We are in a temp time of pain. | Oct 31 06:56 |
| ender2070 | sometimes ati makes a fix in their closed source driver to make a game run better on say 4870, that change will apply to a small number of cards | Oct 31 06:56 |
| oiaohm | As we migrate from one tech design to another. | Oct 31 06:56 |
| ender2070 | if nvidia makes a change to optimize a game, it often applies to everything | Oct 31 06:57 |
| oiaohm | ATI closed source drivers will disappear. | Oct 31 06:57 |
| oiaohm | Even on windows. | Oct 31 06:57 |
| ender2070 | not on windows | Oct 31 06:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | not on windows. | Oct 31 06:57 |
| oiaohm | Have you seen the hell to do 3d graphic on a virtual guest. | Oct 31 06:57 |
| ender2070 | m$ wont give them a license if they do that | Oct 31 06:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: its actually quite easy | Oct 31 06:57 |
| oiaohm | Really Diablo-D3 | Oct 31 06:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: write your driver to simply forward opengl calls to the host | Oct 31 06:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | and then use wine3D to do D3D->opengl on the guest | Oct 31 06:58 |
| oiaohm | Nice if applications don't require 2 different versions of opengl. | Oct 31 06:58 |
| oiaohm | Or functions wine3d dont' support yet. | Oct 31 06:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: um, you fail at opengl coding | Oct 31 06:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | but thanks for playing | Oct 31 06:59 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Oct 31 06:59 |
| oiaohm | Nvidia altered version of opengl. | Oct 31 06:59 |
| oiaohm | They are not pure spec. | Oct 31 06:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | there is only "two" versions of opengl | Oct 31 06:59 |
| ender2070 | would gallium3d help virtualbox or virtualpc support virtualized 3d games ? | Oct 31 06:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | before 3, and after 3. | Oct 31 06:59 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: extentions. | Oct 31 06:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: no | Oct 31 06:59 |
| oiaohm | windows opengl has extentsions Linux one does not. | Oct 31 06:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: so what? read the opengl spec when it comes to the abi | Oct 31 06:59 |
| oiaohm | So programs don't work. | Oct 31 07:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | and the windows opengl extensions have nothing to do with rendering | Oct 31 07:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | so your argument still fails | Oct 31 07:00 |
| oiaohm | Yes it does. | Oct 31 07:00 |
| oiaohm | Some of those extentsion expose GPU features nvidia does not expose on Linux. | Oct 31 07:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: gallium3D is just the part of the driver framework that allows you to use opengl on modern hardware | Oct 31 07:00 |
| ender2070 | ohhhh another framework | Oct 31 07:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: such as, for example, writing the proper shaders to do fixed function pipeline work, or compiling shaders, or anything like that | Oct 31 07:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | gpus aren't gpus anymore | Oct 31 07:01 |
| oiaohm | Its far simple to memory manage the video card. | Oct 31 07:01 |
| ender2070 | yeah video cards are just cores and ram these days | Oct 31 07:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: if nvidia exposes them on windows and not nvidia, then thats a bug in the nvidia drivers | Oct 31 07:01 |
| ender2070 | more cores more speeds | Oct 31 07:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: you really need to learn how opengl extensions work, however | Oct 31 07:02 |
| oiaohm | Design around dri2 and galuim3d allows more than 1 version of the driver to be loaded at the same time. | Oct 31 07:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | "more than one version" | Oct 31 07:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, its still the same version | Oct 31 07:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | extensions dont create "new versions" | Oct 31 07:02 |
| oiaohm | You are taken opengl version. | Oct 31 07:02 |
| oiaohm | Not driver versions. | Oct 31 07:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | opengl version number does not change due to extensions | Oct 31 07:03 |
| ender2070 | hopefully you guys are write about amd | Oct 31 07:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | and no programmer uses the version number anyhow | Oct 31 07:03 |
| ender2070 | I used to like them, but the phenom shattered my beliefs in them | Oct 31 07:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | they check if an extension exists before they use it | Oct 31 07:03 |
| oiaohm | But the extention in the opengl that games depend on change with the the driver version providing the opengl. | Oct 31 07:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: the phenom II is the best cpu ever designed for consumer hardware | Oct 31 07:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: then the app is coded wrong and was never shipped because it simply doesnt work. | Oct 31 07:04 |
| ender2070 | Diablo-D3 - only on paper | Oct 31 07:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: _no one checks the fucking opengl version_ | Oct 31 07:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: if they want to use an extension, they check if it exists. period. | Oct 31 07:04 |
| oiaohm | Some games are Nvidia or ATI only and are opengl due to there usage of extentions. | Oct 31 07:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: please, stop smoking crack. | Oct 31 07:05 |
| oiaohm | Ie don't have the extentions they want abort. | Oct 31 07:05 |
| *dmb (n=Dmb@unaffiliated/dmb) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 31 07:05 | |
| oiaohm | Its not bull Diablo-D3. | Oct 31 07:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: it is bullshit. | Oct 31 07:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | programmers check the extension, if the extension doesnt exist, they either go with out, or do it some other way | Oct 31 07:06 |
| oiaohm | No. | Oct 31 07:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | they dont check the damned opengl version, and windows doesnt magically make it work | Oct 31 07:06 |
| oiaohm | The games that don't are shipped by ATI and Nvidia. | Oct 31 07:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | and don't tell me fucking no, I've been developing with opengl for almost a decade | Oct 31 07:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | I know how shit works | Oct 31 07:06 |
| oiaohm | Basically you are a well behaved code | Oct 31 07:07 |
| oiaohm | coder. | Oct 31 07:07 |
| oiaohm | Problem not all them are. | Oct 31 07:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | the ones that aren't don't work for valve, id, or any company anyone actually gives a fuck about | Oct 31 07:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | you simply cannot depend on an extension existing before you use it | Oct 31 07:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | at some point you have to expose the function pointers for it | Oct 31 07:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | now, you can check for it, and fail to start, fine | Oct 31 07:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | but then you're a douchebag unless its a really old extension anything made in the past 5 years uses | Oct 31 07:08 |
| oiaohm | I don't disagree. Bundling games with video card then altering core of game to match only 1 brand of card is kinda being nasty. | Oct 31 07:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | and I've never heard of that | Oct 31 07:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, wait, I have | Oct 31 07:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | but I haven't played a game on DOS for about 15 years. | Oct 31 07:10 |
| cubezzz | Diablo-D3, if you don't like nvidia then what do you use? | Oct 31 07:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: amd. | Oct 31 07:10 |
| oiaohm | UT4 has a Nvidia only and ATI only versions that were shiped with cards. And a store one that would work with either Diablo-D3 | Oct 31 07:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: I somehow doubt that. | Oct 31 07:10 |
| ender2070 | oiaohm - i've seen that but the games code wasnt changed, it just checked which graphics card you had during the setup | Oct 31 07:11 |
| DaemonFC | You can have one EXE that's optimized for both at once, oiaohm | Oct 31 07:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: he doesnt understand that | Oct 31 07:11 |
| oiaohm | .dll's | Oct 31 07:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: since hes never actually used opengl before | Oct 31 07:11 |
| oiaohm | UT4 had driver dlls. | Oct 31 07:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: its not even about optimization, its about checking which extensions exist and using them | Oct 31 07:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | same goes with d3d | Oct 31 07:11 |
| oiaohm | So really simple to merge them. | Oct 31 07:12 |
| oiaohm | Or split. | Oct 31 07:12 |
| ender2070 | halflife 2 for example does that | Oct 31 07:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, Source also checks what the card can do, and does it | Oct 31 07:12 |
| ender2070 | and enables different options when it detects the feature | Oct 31 07:12 |
| oiaohm | When you have a game with video .dll for like ati one then nvidia another. its fairly simple to lock them. | Oct 31 07:13 |
| oiaohm | And then a generic. | Oct 31 07:13 |
| oiaohm | Basically don't install the dlls that provide features to use the others. | Oct 31 07:13 |
| ender2070 | theres plenty of douche bag ways of doing that oiaohm | Oct 31 07:14 |
| oiaohm | I am not saying its right. | Oct 31 07:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: also, you're full of shit | Oct 31 07:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | there is no ut4. | Oct 31 07:14 |
| ender2070 | isn't ut4 coming out soon or something | Oct 31 07:15 |
| oiaohm | ut2004 | Oct 31 07:15 |
| oiaohm | I was lazy Diablo-D3 | Oct 31 07:15 |
| ender2070 | ahhh | Oct 31 07:15 |
| ender2070 | at the same time, epic has been going down hill i've heard | Oct 31 07:15 |
| DaemonFC | I really wish they would bring back the military draft | Oct 31 07:17 |
| ender2070 | rofl | Oct 31 07:17 |
| ender2070 | why | Oct 31 07:17 |
| DaemonFC | it might cause young people to give a shit about what's going on | Oct 31 07:17 |
| oiaohm | So birthday loto DaemonFC? | Oct 31 07:18 |
| DaemonFC | if there's a good chance their own ass may be shot out from under them | Oct 31 07:18 |
| ender2070 | lol | Oct 31 07:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: it doesnt work that way | Oct 31 07:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: theres too many young people who think killing people is awesome | Oct 31 07:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | look how vietnam turned out | Oct 31 07:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | forcing idiots onto the military is idiotic | Oct 31 07:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | they cant handle them | Oct 31 07:18 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, meh, the government reinforces a lot of that | Oct 31 07:18 |
| ender2070 | I wouldn't want to force people into my own army | Oct 31 07:18 |
| cubezzz | I don't think you guys in the US have had the draft since the 70's | Oct 31 07:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | the military leaders hated vietnam | Oct 31 07:18 |
| ender2070 | they might do many things including sabotage | Oct 31 07:18 |
| DaemonFC | with violent news, violent movies, violent music, violent video games | Oct 31 07:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | they were stuck with half of an army that cant fight | Oct 31 07:19 |
| DaemonFC | the government really promotes that | Oct 31 07:19 |
| oiaohm | Biggest problem with drafted and some of US recuriting is solider stupidity. | Oct 31 07:19 |
| DaemonFC | their want to ban it is nothing more than rhetoric | Oct 31 07:19 |
| DaemonFC | totally superficial | Oct 31 07:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: so uh | Oct 31 07:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | the government | Oct 31 07:19 |
| oiaohm | You really don't want ones on the battle field that cannot make friends with locals | Oct 31 07:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | made my video games | Oct 31 07:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | bwahahahahhaah | Oct 31 07:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | right | Oct 31 07:19 |
| ender2070 | cant do a draft securely anymore | Oct 31 07:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | if the government made my video games, I want my tax money back | Oct 31 07:19 |
| oiaohm | Locals will always kick your ass in the end. | Oct 31 07:19 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, They don't do anything to stop it, after 20 years or more of flaming rhetoric and threats to do so | Oct 31 07:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: because they have no right to stop it! | Oct 31 07:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | duh! | Oct 31 07:20 |
| oiaohm | USA policy biggest issue is that force can solve stuff. | Oct 31 07:20 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, The rhetoric of banning it is really there to encourage sales of it | Oct 31 07:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: wrong | Oct 31 07:20 |
| oiaohm | People solve stuff not force. | Oct 31 07:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | the rhetoric of banning it is to encourage voting republican and hating gays | Oct 31 07:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | we saw how well that worked, didnt we? | Oct 31 07:20 |
| DaemonFC | if the government wants to take something from you, or you think they do, suddenly you have people buying it in bulk | Oct 31 07:20 |
| cubezzz | Banning what? | Oct 31 07:20 |
| oiaohm | Remember the old saying pen is mighter than the sword. | Oct 31 07:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: well | Oct 31 07:21 |
| oiaohm | Sword just brings death not peace. | Oct 31 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: well | Oct 31 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | lets just ban intelligence then | Oct 31 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | that should work great | Oct 31 07:21 |
| DaemonFC | like the perception that Obama may sign gun control laws has led to gun and ammo hoarding, Diablo-D3 | Oct 31 07:21 |
| ender2070 | i think it has been banned | Oct 31 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | everyone will run out and try to become smart | Oct 31 07:21 |
| oiaohm | That is also part of USA problem think of the school system over there Diablo-D3 | Oct 31 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: obama wont sign gun control alws | Oct 31 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | hmm | Oct 31 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | lets ban schools too | Oct 31 07:21 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, The gun stores want to promote the myth to keep sales up | Oct 31 07:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | oh, and lets ban hot women | Oct 31 07:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | and porn! lets ban that! | Oct 31 07:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | and beer! | Oct 31 07:22 |
| DaemonFC | as long as they can rile up the hicks and the neocons into the "must buy more guns and bullets" mindset | Oct 31 07:22 |
| oiaohm | Ok you are trying to create afagainstane? | Oct 31 07:22 |
| DaemonFC | they get record profits | Oct 31 07:22 |
| cubezzz | prohibition happened :) | Oct 31 07:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: no, Im trying to increase sales | Oct 31 07:22 |
| oiaohm | Ok that spelt wrong Diablo-D3. | Oct 31 07:22 |
| DaemonFC | from selling them to the most psychopathic and deranged and mentally retarded demographics | Oct 31 07:22 |
| oiaohm | Because everything you are saying is what that place did Diablo-D3 | Oct 31 07:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | man | Oct 31 07:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | lets ban .... black people | Oct 31 07:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | something really horrrrrrrible | Oct 31 07:23 |
| oiaohm | Ok first thing they did not do Diablo-D3 | Oct 31 07:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean, if Im going to hop on the republcian train here | Oct 31 07:23 |
| ender2070 | lol | Oct 31 07:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | lets ban womens rights, gays, non-whites | Oct 31 07:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | oh, and poor people | Oct 31 07:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | we have to ban them too | Oct 31 07:24 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, The government never bans anything they can tax the holy living shit out of, especially if it's an established industry with lots of lobbyists who bribe the politicians | Oct 31 07:24 |
| cubezzz | welcome to 1901 | Oct 31 07:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: hrrrrm | Oct 31 07:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | lets tax... .... SEX! | Oct 31 07:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | actually, lets not, people will just jerk off in protest | Oct 31 07:24 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, They already profiteer off sex | Oct 31 07:24 |
| cubezzz | you forgot to ban cigarettes :) | Oct 31 07:24 |
| ender2070 | if they aren't already jerking off | Oct 31 07:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: no, that Im totally behind | Oct 31 07:25 |
| DaemonFC | they "manage" but don't cure the horrible disfiguring STDs you can get | Oct 31 07:25 |
| DaemonFC | makes them $1500 a month per patient with AIDS | Oct 31 07:25 |
| DaemonFC | why would they ever want that to end? | Oct 31 07:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: well, just because congress is called a bunch of jerk offs doesnt mean they literally jerk off | Oct 31 07:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean, lets face it, they have hot female staff for that | Oct 31 07:25 |
| cubezzz | ok, question, since 1960 have things improved or got worse? | Oct 31 07:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: both. | Oct 31 07:26 |
| ender2070 | Diablo-D3 talking about your average joe w/ a web browser | Oct 31 07:26 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, There will NEVER be a cure for AIDS because it's too profitable to "treat" it indefinitely | Oct 31 07:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: unfortunately that is wrong | Oct 31 07:26 |
| DaemonFC | that's why there isn't a cure or vaccine already | Oct 31 07:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | google will end up curing aids | Oct 31 07:26 |
| DaemonFC | it's not cause they can't do it | Oct 31 07:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | because its annoying. | Oct 31 07:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | pray google never realizes they can run for president | Oct 31 07:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | we'd be fucked | Oct 31 07:26 |
| ender2070 | lol | Oct 31 07:27 |
| ender2070 | i dont mind google | Oct 31 07:27 |
| ender2070 | if it werent for them we would probably be using msn search | Oct 31 07:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | everything would be cured, we'd have a massive space program, we'd have fembots who know everything about sex and can also carry on a deep philosophical conversation, and money would be declared irrelevant | Oct 31 07:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | it'd be like, star trek or something | Oct 31 07:28 |
| cubezzz | lol | Oct 31 07:28 |
| ender2070 | Diablo-D3 - scientists say ppl are gonna be banging robots before 2020 | Oct 31 07:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070: hmm | Oct 31 07:28 |
| cubezzz | I was going to make a "Mark of Gideon" comment | Oct 31 07:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | sure, why not | Oct 31 07:28 |
| cubezzz | no disease | Oct 31 07:28 |
| ender2070 | think of the average wow geek | Oct 31 07:28 |
| ender2070 | they wont get wives | Oct 31 07:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean, if they can make robots | Oct 31 07:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | that are "fleshy", intelligent, and otherwise perfect | Oct 31 07:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | sign me up | Oct 31 07:28 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, They say about 1% of the US population is infected with HIV, right? Out of 305 million people, that's something like 3.05 million HIV infected. If you have 3.05 million people buying HIV treatment drugs for the rest of their lives (say, 20-25 years), then you make $4,500,000,000 treating them every MONTH | Oct 31 07:29 |
| DaemonFC | and that's just the US | Oct 31 07:29 |
| ender2070 | when i say robots, i mean cyborgs | Oct 31 07:29 |
| cubezzz | come on now, no way, by 2020 :) | Oct 31 07:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | man | Oct 31 07:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | now I just wanna watch appleseed | Oct 31 07:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | thanks guys | Oct 31 07:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | or ghost in the shell, but only for the major <3 | Oct 31 07:29 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Would you turn down $4.5 trillion a month? | Oct 31 07:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: well | Oct 31 07:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know what I'd do with that much money? | Oct 31 07:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | cure aids. | Oct 31 07:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | so, um, yeah. | Oct 31 07:30 |
| DaemonFC | when you add in all the rest of the world's AIDS patients, it would probably be well over $100 Trillion a month | Oct 31 07:30 |
| DaemonFC | for pills alone | Oct 31 07:30 |
| DaemonFC | that's not counting other stuff | Oct 31 07:30 |
| cubezzz | is it really 1%? | Oct 31 07:31 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, That's what I've always seen | Oct 31 07:31 |
| DaemonFC | about 1% | Oct 31 07:31 |
| DaemonFC | HIV is still widely regarded as some kind of Gay Plague so it actually infects heterosexuals more per capita | Oct 31 07:32 |
| DaemonFC | because they're less likely to be concerned about it | Oct 31 07:32 |
| cubezzz | sounds like something that escaped from a lab | Oct 31 07:32 |
| cubezzz | but who knows | Oct 31 07:33 |
| DaemonFC | straight people are far less likely to use any meaningful contraception that would act to block HIV transmission | Oct 31 07:33 |
| DaemonFC | or any contraception at all for that matter, if you get to the especially poor ones | Oct 31 07:33 |
| DaemonFC | so you have both HIV and unwanted children more and more the further down the income ladder you get | Oct 31 07:33 |
| cubezzz | in the 1960's it was predicted there would be mass starvation by the year 2000 | Oct 31 07:34 |
| DaemonFC | that's not even counting Hepatitis C, which is about 4% of the US population | Oct 31 07:34 |
| DaemonFC | Syphilis, Gonorrhea, Chlamydia are out there and have always sread like wildfire, but they're curable and unlikely to kill you if you take powerful antibiotics in time | Oct 31 07:35 |
| DaemonFC | *spread | Oct 31 07:35 |
| DaemonFC | Hep-C though is an interesting pandemic, it's got 4 times as many infected people as HIV, is just as deadly, and gets almost no attention | Oct 31 07:36 |
| DaemonFC | why is that? | Oct 31 07:36 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, They weren't that far off | Oct 31 07:37 |
| DaemonFC | give it another 3-5 years at this rate | Oct 31 07:37 |
| DaemonFC | watch food shortages, price spikes | Oct 31 07:37 |
| DaemonFC | fuel price spikes which add to the food pricing problem | Oct 31 07:37 |
| cubezzz | I would say it's less contagious that HIV but I'm guessing | Oct 31 07:38 |
| DaemonFC | the world in general has been on the unsustainable population growth track for decades | Oct 31 07:38 |
| DaemonFC | it's going to be a really shitty place around 2050 | Oct 31 07:38 |
| DaemonFC | there will be more than 12 million of us | Oct 31 07:38 |
| DaemonFC | there's going to be all kinds of hell | Oct 31 07:39 |
| cubezzz | DaemonFC, there were predictions like that in the 18th century | Oct 31 07:39 |
| ender2070 | unless conspiracy theorists are correct, or we find other plants like earth | Oct 31 07:39 |
| cubezzz | it didn't turn out as bad as people thought | Oct 31 07:39 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, Well, look at the population growth trends | Oct 31 07:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | look at technology growth trends | Oct 31 07:39 |
| DaemonFC | there's really no denying it that our population is already too high | Oct 31 07:39 |
| DaemonFC | and getting worse | Oct 31 07:39 |
| DaemonFC | and to pour salt in the wound, the people that shouldn't reproduce are all having 4-5 children | Oct 31 07:40 |
| DaemonFC | and feeding them out of taxpayer money | Oct 31 07:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, I agree | Oct 31 07:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | there should be a limit of 2 children per family | Oct 31 07:41 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Now, there is an exception to the rule sometimes | Oct 31 07:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, like, I, should have 50 children | Oct 31 07:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | ironic since I dont want any | Oct 31 07:41 |
| DaemonFC | where two parents who barely know what planet they are on have a kid that turns out OK | Oct 31 07:42 |
| cubezzz | most people I talk to don't want kids | Oct 31 07:42 |
| DaemonFC | that's rare, but I've seen it happen | Oct 31 07:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: most people you talk to are apparently intelligent | Oct 31 07:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: just means it wasnt genetic | Oct 31 07:42 |
| DaemonFC | I don't want kids | Oct 31 07:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | you shouldnt have kids | Oct 31 07:42 |
| DaemonFC | there's no benefit in it for me anyway | Oct 31 07:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | btw, Ive finally figured out what XT means in model names | Oct 31 07:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | radeons keep having "pro" and "xt" above that | Oct 31 07:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | it means "extra testicular" | Oct 31 07:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | ie, it has bigger balls. | Oct 31 07:43 |
| cubezzz | lol, I thought you were going to say IBM XT :) | Oct 31 07:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | cubezzz: "IBM with bigger balls" | Oct 31 07:44 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W-fIn2QZgg | Oct 31 07:44 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: YouTube - acdc-big balls .::. Size~: 130.64 KB | Oct 31 07:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | o/~ duuun, dun dun dun dunnnnn o/~ | Oct 31 07:45 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, I miss 3dfx, actually | Oct 31 07:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im trying to remember which amv hell had the pokemon amv | Oct 31 07:49 |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Oct 31 07:50 | |
| ender2070 | anyone heard of Dr Pete Peterson | Oct 31 07:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | welp, its not in 1 or 2 | Oct 31 07:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | so its gotta be in 3 | Oct 31 07:59 |
| cubezzz | XT = eXtended Technology | Oct 31 08:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | XT = GIANT BALLS | Oct 31 08:00 |
| cubezzz | ;-) | Oct 31 08:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | NT = miNute Testicles | Oct 31 08:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | micro, soft, minute testicles. | Oct 31 08:03 |
| *Diablo-D3 snickers. | Oct 31 08:04 | |
| ender2070 | lol | Oct 31 08:04 |
| cubezzz | check out the awesome IBM 5120 | Oct 31 08:05 |
| cubezzz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_5120 | Oct 31 08:05 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: IBM 5120 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 18.53 KB | Oct 31 08:05 |
| cubezzz | such a great deal for only 9 grand :) | Oct 31 08:08 |
| cubezzz | and a lightweight 105 pounds | Oct 31 08:09 |
| cubezzz | this is truly old for a portable computer: | Oct 31 08:11 |
| cubezzz | http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5100.html | Oct 31 08:11 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: IBM 5100 computer .::. Size~: 10.42 KB | Oct 31 08:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | hmm | Oct 31 08:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im pretty sure its not in amv hell 4 | Oct 31 08:13 |
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| Diablo-D3 | goddamnit | Oct 31 08:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | it better not be in amv hell 4 | Oct 31 08:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Chief drug adviser David Nutt sacked over cannabis stance - Don't let science get in the way of dogma eh? http://tinyurl.com/yjytwzx | Oct 31 08:34 | |
| Diablo-D3 | hah | Oct 31 08:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Conficker Bounty Did Not Work, #Windows #Zombies Still Run Rampant http://ping.fm/6TvZo | Oct 31 08:44 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Conficker Bounty Did Not Work, Windows Zombies Still Run Rampant | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.7 KB | Oct 31 08:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | oh yeah! | Oct 31 09:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | no wonder I cant find it | Oct 31 09:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | it wasnt in amv hell | Oct 31 09:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | its in re:death | Oct 31 09:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: skip to 5:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJbPIF7nGrQ | Oct 31 09:12 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Bringing back memories of better computing times.... http://bit.ly/3j9SXO | Oct 31 09:41 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] and of course, the one that for me started it all..... http://bit.ly/3QE1Xj | Oct 31 09:45 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: DTV :: All the demoscene on a web TV ! - RSI Megademo .::. Size~: 51.54 KB | Oct 31 09:45 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Computer Support Company: Wait Until #Vista #ServicePack 4 (at Least) http://ping.fm/60CGo #vista7 | Oct 31 09:47 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Computer Support Company: Wait Until Vista Service Pack 4 (at Least) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.51 KB | Oct 31 09:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Failures of #Vista7 Lead to Increased Exploration of #GNU #Linux http://ping.fm/U3xBe | Oct 31 09:48 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Failures of Vista 7 Lead to Increased Exploration of GNU/Linux | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 115.13 KB | Oct 31 09:48 |
| schestowitz | tenderfoot: hey, mutex | Oct 31 09:48 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - Tesco's PC Buyers Guide | The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/yhqrrx2 | Oct 31 09:51 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Tesco's PC Buyers Guide | The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 28.03 KB | Oct 31 09:51 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell Cannot Defend #GroupWise After Major Embarrassment http://ping.fm/DxAh3 | Oct 31 10:15 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Novell Cannot Defend GroupWise After Major Embarrassment | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 111.26 KB | Oct 31 10:15 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RD: @rahulsundaram: ♺ @lwnnet: Hudson: Corporate lobbying against free software http://lwn.net/Articles/359669/rss | Oct 31 10:15 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Hudson: Corporate lobbying against free software [LWN.net] .::. Size~: 6.35 KB | Oct 31 10:15 |
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| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #FBI supports corporate terrorism http://ow.ly/xV6w | Oct 31 10:20 | |
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| ThistleWeb | finally got my Tesco PC Buyers Guide blog post out | Oct 31 10:21 |
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| _goblin | morning all.... | Oct 31 10:26 |
| ThistleWeb | on the tech podcast from the gaurdian, windows special....windows rep claiming "we introduced people to the GUI" rofl | Oct 31 10:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | lawl | Oct 31 10:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, xerox introduced the UI to microsoft | Oct 31 10:27 |
| ThistleWeb | it's a "history of Windows" special | Oct 31 10:27 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Giving pythonmachine 0.26.4-2 a look.... | Oct 31 10:31 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Price of #Mono http://ping.fm/ZfbHq | Oct 31 10:33 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Price of Mono | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 108.82 KB | Oct 31 10:33 |
| ThistleWeb | ROFL "one of the principles behind the design of Windows 7 was to make you feel like you were in control" | Oct 31 10:41 |
| ThistleWeb | .....without actually giving you control | Oct 31 10:41 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: yes, I know | Oct 31 10:43 |
| schestowitz | I'm writing about this already | Oct 31 10:43 |
| schestowitz | Someone told me | Oct 31 10:43 |
| ThistleWeb | in fairness it is a windows special, interviewing MS employees speaking as MS employees....but they do say a number of wrong or misleading things | Oct 31 10:44 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] LOL, the suspicious anon Twitter accounts that praise Windows 7 http://twitter.com/alie4251 #microsoft #windows #xp #vista | Oct 31 10:47 | |
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| ThistleWeb | rofl - "the initial impression is how much it looks like Vista, which is the thing I'm not supposed to say" | Oct 31 10:52 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: Microsoft offers bribes to people who praise Vista 7 in Twitter | Oct 31 10:52 |
| schestowitz | This was in the press | Oct 31 10:52 |
| ThistleWeb | lol, I'm loving the after-interview talk, about "they didn't invent the GUI" and looking at quarterly results etc | Oct 31 10:57 |
| ThistleWeb | though they do have a loyal shill included in the convo | Oct 31 10:59 |
| ThistleWeb | I never noticed just how much of a MS chill Jack Scofield is until I listen to this shit | Oct 31 11:02 |
| ThistleWeb | shill* | Oct 31 11:02 |
| ThistleWeb | no pretense of balance | Oct 31 11:02 |
| schestowitz | Yeah | Oct 31 11:06 |
| schestowitz | Wait | Oct 31 11:06 |
| schestowitz | I'm doing a post about it | Oct 31 11:06 |
| schestowitz | Jack also | Oct 31 11:06 |
| schestowitz | But I'm proofreading atm | Oct 31 11:06 |
| *ThistleWeb was just thinking out loud, don't worry about responding | Oct 31 11:07 | |
| *magentar (n=magentar@ip-109-90-136-6.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 31 11:08 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Twitterfall makes is easy to monitor those "convenient" new users of Twitter of come on to praise Windows 7 #microsoft #vista #xp | Oct 31 11:11 | |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: almost there now | Oct 31 11:18 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: you may be interested in my latest post about the Tesco PC Buyers Guides too when you get the time to read it | Oct 31 11:20 |
| ThistleWeb | I spent hours writing it on Sunday / Monday only to find the server / iframe probs with Wordpress that you and fewa helped me figure out | Oct 31 11:21 |
| ThistleWeb | so it's finally out lol | Oct 31 11:22 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] A site dedicated to taking down #banks http://ur1.ca/euh3 | Oct 31 11:25 | |
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| fewa | the Bush ideological corruption continues http://www.johnmccain.com/news/Read.aspx?id=51 | Oct 31 11:25 |
| fewa | McCain doesn't even know how to use a computer | Oct 31 11:25 |
| fewa | corrupt bastard | Oct 31 11:26 |
| ThistleWeb | it's just a typewriter attached to a TV right? | Oct 31 11:26 |
| fewa | they are plotting to destroy the government | Oct 31 11:26 |
| fewa | I just don't see why | Oct 31 11:26 |
| fewa | its not disgusting | Oct 31 11:27 |
| fewa | *its so disgusting | Oct 31 11:27 |
| ThistleWeb | they could be thinking 1984 style, where the purpose of a computer is to rewrite history so BB is always right | Oct 31 11:27 |
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| schestowitz | OK, posted | Oct 31 11:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The #Guardian Tells #Microsoft ’s Lies http://ping.fm/MLZTu #vista7 #msjack | Oct 31 11:29 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Guardian Tells Microsofts Lies | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 113.71 KB | Oct 31 11:29 |
| schestowitz | fewa: McBush is also anti Net netrality | Oct 31 11:29 |
| schestowitz | *neutrality | Oct 31 11:29 |
| schestowitz | If it doesn't help the Big Telcos, then it's bad for $$ :-) | Oct 31 11:29 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: people who don't understand computers want them aliminated | Oct 31 11:30 |
| schestowitz | *Eliminated | Oct 31 11:30 |
| schestowitz | It makes them feel better about their intelligence | Oct 31 11:30 |
| ThistleWeb | I wonder if any of the Bush clan got the nickname "Seventies Bush" | Oct 31 11:30 |
| schestowitz | Luddite mentality | Oct 31 11:30 |
| schestowitz | Which is why technophobs like McBush & Bush must be rejected | Oct 31 11:30 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/10/31/guardian-windows-revisionism/ maybe you can spit typos? | Oct 31 11:31 |
| ThistleWeb | old people are set in what was "modern" when they enetered their careers | Oct 31 11:31 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Guardian Tells Microsofts Lies | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 113.71 KB | Oct 31 11:31 |
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| Omar87 | Damn it! Something really nasty happened when I tried to upgrade my Kubuntu install. | Oct 31 11:33 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: split typos? You lost me | Oct 31 11:33 |
| fewa | schestowitz, thats what that was | Oct 31 11:37 |
| fewa | him bullshitting about opposing network neutrality | Oct 31 11:37 |
| fewa | when he doesn't even know how to use a computer | Oct 31 11:37 |
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| schestowitz | Omar87: what happened? | Oct 31 11:52 |
| schestowitz | Upgrade? | Oct 31 11:52 |
| schestowitz | Or update? | Oct 31 11:52 |
| schestowitz | fewa: if McBush goes senile, they will hopefully have a PC to teach his s/t at the mental institution or the parents' home | Oct 31 11:53 |
| schestowitz | !google senator internet tubes | Oct 31 11:54 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Series of tubes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_of_tubes | Oct 31 11:54 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - YouTube - Series of Tubes | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Df99PcP0aFNE | Oct 31 11:54 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Sen. Stevens' hilariously awful explanation of the Internet ... | http://www.boingboing.net/2006/07/02/sen-stevens-hilariou.html | Oct 31 11:54 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Senator Stevens Speaks on Net Neutrality | Public Knowledge | http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/497 | Oct 31 11:54 |
| schestowitz | Stevens had a 'small tubes' problem | Oct 31 11:54 |
| schestowitz | He also was in the midst of many crimes, bribery mostly | Oct 31 11:55 |
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| omar | schestowitz: it seems like the upgrade didn't complete, and now I'm not able to boot my system 'coz udev is unconfigured. | Oct 31 12:02 |
| schestowitz | Upgrade? | Oct 31 12:05 |
| schestowitz | From 9.04? | Oct 31 12:05 |
| schestowitz | omar: not a problem | Oct 31 12:05 |
| schestowitz | try | Oct 31 12:05 |
| schestowitz | sudo apt-get update | Oct 31 12:05 |
| schestowitz | or was it sudo apt-get system-update | Oct 31 12:05 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft : Over 50 #Patent Infringement Cases Pending Against Microsoft http://ping.fm/SYz34 | Oct 31 12:06 | |
| schestowitz | It would bring the system back to scratch if it's connected OK | Oct 31 12:06 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft: Over 50 Patent Infringement Cases Pending Against Microsoft | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 114.6 KB | Oct 31 12:06 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Watford Council saves children from parents http://is.gd/4J68z | Oct 31 12:25 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Watford Council saves children from parents - News of the News .::. Size~: 33.56 KB | Oct 31 12:25 |
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| schestowitz | http://mashable.com/2009/10/29/facebook-spam-suit/ | Oct 31 13:07 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Facebook Awarded $711 Million in Anti-Spam Lawsuit .::. Size~: 84.1 KB | Oct 31 13:07 |
| schestowitz | http://savannahnow.com/news/2009-10-28/texting-leads-shooting | Oct 31 13:11 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Texting leads to shooting | savannahnow.com .::. Size~: 74.55 KB | Oct 31 13:11 |
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| schestowitz | http://lxer.com/module/newswire/ext_link.php?rid=127418 | Oct 31 13:32 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] The Audacity of Greed #freemarkets #corpwelfare @JonathanTasini for #NewYork #Senate interview @democracynow http://ur1.ca/eupg #p2 #bailout | Oct 31 13:41 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Is the Recession Over? Author, Democratic Senate Hopeful Jonathan Tasini on "The Audacity of Greed: Free Markets, Corporate Thieves and the Looting of America" .::. Size~: 46.18 KB | Oct 31 13:41 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Britain 'losing billions in VAT' - What about the global corps hiding behind tax havens? http://tinyurl.com/yzdryjl | Oct 31 14:04 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | Business | Britain 'losing billions in VAT' .::. Size~: 46.16 KB | Oct 31 14:04 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell News Summary – Part I: #OpenSUSE 11.2 Near GM; #RonHovsepian Congratulates #Intel http://ping.fm/8Dud6 | Oct 31 15:16 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Novell News Summary Part I: OpenSUSE 11.2 Near GM; Ron Hovsepian Congratulates Intel | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 120.44 KB | Oct 31 15:16 |
| omar | I try to login into my KDE session, the splash screen appears and then the desktop does not appear. | Oct 31 15:19 |
| omar | Only KdeWallet appears prompting me for the password. | Oct 31 15:20 |
| omar | The desktop is pitch black. | Oct 31 15:20 |
| omar | No desktop at all. | Oct 31 15:20 |
| omar | Any help? | Oct 31 15:20 |
| omar | Please? | Oct 31 15:20 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz Hilarious that photo of ManInSweater with a pipe. Bill Goatse does Da Slack :-) | Oct 31 15:45 | |
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| schestowitz | omar needs to start plasma | Oct 31 16:13 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @ml2mst MenInSweater are always so poor and innocent | Oct 31 16:13 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, You should drive home a point that you aren't when talking about Conficker and its brethren | Oct 31 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 2000 will be TEN YEARS OLD on February 17, 2010, and still manages to get at least a dozen security patches a month, even now | Oct 31 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | It's a good way to point out that no matter how many patches you install, there's always more vulnerabilities | Oct 31 16:21 |
| DaemonFC | several thousand of them have been patched in Windows 2000 and it's still regularly patched | Oct 31 16:21 |
| DaemonFC | you would think that the patch rate would have slowed down and the OS would have more or less settled by now | Oct 31 16:22 |
| DaemonFC | but it's goint to be patched from birth to abortion | Oct 31 16:22 |
| DaemonFC | *going | Oct 31 16:22 |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz, You should also mention that companies won't necessarily throw out Windows 2000 on their systems just because it's out of support | Oct 31 16:24 |
| wallc | In the BN article about the Guardian podcast "History of Windows", there's a call for someone to transcribe it in order to make it seachable. Has anyone offered to do that yet? | Oct 31 16:24 |
| wallc | If not, I'll do it. | Oct 31 16:24 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_2000#Security_criticisms | Oct 31 16:26 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Windows 2000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 183.05 KB | Oct 31 16:26 |
| DaemonFC | On 8 September 2009, Microsoft skipped patching two of the five security flaws that were addressed in the monthly security update, saying that patching one of the critical security flaws was "infeasible".[93] According to the Microsoft Security Bulletin MS09-048, "The architecture to properly support TCP/IP protection does not exist on Microsoft Windows 2000 systems, making it infeasible to build the fix for Microsoft Windows | Oct 31 16:26 |
| DaemonFC | 2000 Service Pack 4 to eliminate the vulnerability. To do so would require rearchitecting a very significant amount of the Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 4 operating system, [...] there would be no assurance that applications designed to run on Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 4 would continue to operate on the updated system." | Oct 31 16:26 |
| schestowitz | wallc: excellent! | Oct 31 16:28 |
| schestowitz | No-one has done that yet | Oct 31 16:28 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: that's like using Mandrake 5 or something | Oct 31 16:29 |
| wallc | it will take a few days, but i'll send it to you when it's done. :) | Oct 31 16:29 |
| schestowitz | Cool, thanks! | Oct 31 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Worse | Oct 31 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 2000 not only shares all the vulnerabilities in XP, Microsoft has started refusing to patch some while the damned thing is still supported | Oct 31 16:30 |
| DaemonFC | to try and force an upgrade | Oct 31 16:30 |
| schestowitz | exe mentality | Oct 31 16:31 |
| schestowitz | If they had used Free software, they would easily carry on all the old apps to the latest OS, free of charge | Oct 31 16:31 |
| schestowitz | Same issue with Windows+ARM | Oct 31 16:31 |
| schestowitz | So they are GLUED to x86. Meh! | Oct 31 16:31 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, It's not the first time that Microsoft has refused a security patch for operating systems still in support, they left some critical Windows 98 and Windows NT 4 vulnerabilities unpatched, with a year left on the support lifecycle | Oct 31 16:31 |
| schestowitz | So Win2000 should still be supported but they lied? | Oct 31 16:32 |
| schestowitz | Like with XP? | Oct 31 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Windows 2000 is supported until July of 2010 | Oct 31 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | meaning that per their support agreement, every security patch should be delivered on until then | Oct 31 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | so they're violating their own support agreement, but insisting that you obey your obligations under their EULA | Oct 31 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, This is kind of like the times Microsoft was found violating their side of the privacy agreement in Windows Media Player 7 (They probably still do) | Oct 31 16:34 |
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| DaemonFC | in other words, Microsoft can flagrantly violate the hell out of their side of the agreement, but don't you dare to step out of line or install Windows on two systems with one license | Oct 31 16:35 |
| fewa | DaemonFC, Microsoft has always been an outlaw corporation | Oct 31 16:35 |
| fewa | they only obey the laws that benifit them | Oct 31 16:35 |
| fewa | and disregard those that would dare limit their greed of monopoly | Oct 31 16:35 |
| fewa | they even wish to impose on other those laws | Oct 31 16:36 |
| DaemonFC | They're one of the richest companies and have hundreds of lawyers. You could sue them, in theory, but they could just stall forever | Oct 31 16:36 |
| fewa | its not just that | Oct 31 16:37 |
| fewa | of course having the government totally hijacked for 6 years did not help | Oct 31 16:37 |
| DaemonFC | 8 years | Oct 31 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | and I'd argue that they still do | Oct 31 16:38 |
| fewa | the democrats got a majority in 2006 | Oct 31 16:38 |
| fewa | in the house | Oct 31 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | Obama has packed the DOJ with more RIAA mafia types | Oct 31 16:38 |
| fewa | but yes | Oct 31 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft lawyers | Oct 31 16:38 |
| fewa | there is corrupt on both sides | Oct 31 16:38 |
| fewa | this isn't new | Oct 31 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | etcetera | Oct 31 16:38 |
| fewa | Bill Clinton created alot of the deregulation that led to the banking collapse | Oct 31 16:39 |
| fewa | even when the S&L crisis just happened | Oct 31 16:39 |
| fewa | just totally flaunted the warnings | Oct 31 16:39 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, Republicans and Democrats are Coke and Pepsi, one may be a bit sweeter than the other, but they're just two names for the same thing | Oct 31 16:40 |
| fewa | The business party | Oct 31 16:41 |
| fewa | big business | Oct 31 16:41 |
| fewa | but there are differences | Oct 31 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | My patience for Obama is wearing thin | Oct 31 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | In a lot of ways, he's turning out to be all the worst parts of Carter and Clinton | Oct 31 16:42 |
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| fewa | he never campaigned as anything other than a centrist democrat | Oct 31 16:44 |
| shreddar | Hey, I know some of you live in other countries. What cell phone plans do you have? | Oct 31 16:45 |
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| DaemonFC | fewa, he's wavering on Afghanistan as we speak | Oct 31 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | if there's no way to win this, we should pull out now | Oct 31 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | if there is, get it over with already | Oct 31 16:46 |
| shreddar | I just read some guy pays $10 for unlimited.for like 80 countries. | Oct 31 16:47 |
| DaemonFC | in many ways, Obama is the sequel to Bush/Cheney | Oct 31 16:47 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/01/nyregion/01upstate.html | Oct 31 16:48 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The New York Times > Log In .::. Size~: 9.67 KB | Oct 31 16:49 |
| schestowitz | http://www.paperjam.lu/archives/2009/11/2310_Technologie_Security/index.html | Oct 31 16:49 |
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| schestowitz | [16:47] <DaemonFC> in many ways, Obama is the sequel to Bush/Cheney | Oct 31 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Well, by definition yes | Oct 31 16:50 |
| schestowitz | But the policies stay the same cause he serves the same people | Oct 31 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | I mean, he's continuing all the problems they started | Oct 31 16:50 |
| schestowitz | And he makes similar appointments, accordingly | Oct 31 16:50 |
| schestowitz | PARTRIOT++ | Oct 31 16:50 |
| schestowitz | *PATRIOT | Oct 31 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | and he's hired all the people that deregulated the economy in the first place to "fix it" | Oct 31 16:50 |
| schestowitz | yes | Oct 31 16:52 |
| schestowitz | There's no fix either | Oct 31 16:52 |
| schestowitz | Not even regulation for Next Wave | Oct 31 16:52 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, gotta go | Oct 31 16:52 |
| fewa | DaemonFC, he promised to stay in Afghanistan | Oct 31 16:55 |
| fewa | however, he has broken promises about Iraq | Oct 31 16:55 |
| fewa | promises that I believe he never meant to keep | Oct 31 16:55 |
| fewa | there is some important legislation that should pass | Oct 31 16:56 |
| fewa | EFCA | Oct 31 16:56 |
| fewa | real health care reform | Oct 31 16:56 |
| fewa | the credit consumer protection act | Oct 31 16:57 |
| fewa | net neutrality | Oct 31 16:57 |
| fewa | reregulation of the banks | Oct 31 16:57 |
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| shreddar | Well, if that guy was for real cell phone companies here don't have enough competition. | Oct 31 16:59 |
| fewa | climate change | Oct 31 16:59 |
| fewa | renewable energy | Oct 31 16:59 |
| fewa | yes, we need cell phone carterphone | Oct 31 16:59 |
| fewa | and open access spectrum | Oct 31 16:59 |
| shreddar | I just can stand it that we are fighting to pay for $50/month when people in other country pay $10/month and probably have better infrastructure (data speed). | Oct 31 17:01 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.strausnews.com/articles/2009/10/31/the_chronicle/news/15.txt | Oct 31 17:02 |
| fewa | shreddar, HR 3458 Internet Freedom Preservation Act | Oct 31 17:03 |
| fewa | that needs to pass | Oct 31 17:03 |
| fewa | and needs to pass now | Oct 31 17:03 |
| fewa | this is the time | Oct 31 17:03 |
| fewa | create pressure | Oct 31 17:03 |
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| shreddar | I don't know much about the Internet Freedom Preservation Act. | Oct 31 17:05 |
| fewa | read it | Oct 31 17:06 |
| fewa | http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3458/text | Oct 31 17:06 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Text of H.R.3458 as Introduced in House: Internet Freedom Preservation Act of 2009 - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress .::. Size~: 108.53 KB | Oct 31 17:06 |
| fewa | its a easy read | Oct 31 17:06 |
| shreddar | This part immediately caught my eye: "The global leadership in high technology that the United States provides today stems directly from historic policies that embraced competition and openness and that have ensured that telecommunications networks are open to all lawful uses by all users" | Oct 31 17:08 |
| shreddar | We still fail when it comes to competition over here. | Oct 31 17:11 |
| shreddar | Sure AT&T was split up to bring more competition but it just ended up acquiring itself back together (Terminator 2 style) | Oct 31 17:12 |
| shreddar | Like the document says we have a choice between choosing the Cable company or the Telephone company. | Oct 31 17:13 |
| shreddar | OK it sounds like they know theres a problem "(4) not operate Internet access services in an anticompetitive, unreasonable, unfair, discriminatory, or deceptive manner." | Oct 31 17:15 |
| shreddar | Our government so far has shown no great initiative to limit anticompetitive practices. | Oct 31 17:17 |
| shreddar | I want to see them put greater focus on (4) but not just with telecommunications but with all industries. | Oct 31 17:20 |
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| shreddar | If that Act gets passed (and effectively enforced) a lot of Telecommunications companies will be unhappy. | Oct 31 17:31 |
| fewa | shreddar, yeah I annotated the copy I read and that was a section I blinked at | Oct 31 17:37 |
| fewa | *a sentense | Oct 31 17:38 |
| fewa | but almost every sentence of that bill I agree 100% with | Oct 31 17:38 |
| fewa | shreddar, the way regulation, and law works, is you pass slightly vague stuff first | Oct 31 17:39 |
| fewa | and then it gets enforced if there is public pressure and demand | Oct 31 17:39 |
| fewa | but much of that bill is not vague at all | Oct 31 17:39 |
| fewa | its very specific | Oct 31 17:39 |
| fewa | and that stuff will get enforced | Oct 31 17:39 |
| fewa | and if it does not there _are_ judicial remidies | Oct 31 17:39 |
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| fewa | it should also spell out that service providers are common carriers, as many of the provisions are lifted from the common carrier concept | Oct 31 17:41 |
| fewa | but thats just nit picking | Oct 31 17:41 |
| fewa | the important thing is passing it | Oct 31 17:42 |
| fewa | and passing it like it is not | Oct 31 17:42 |
| fewa | *now | Oct 31 17:42 |
| shreddar | I definitely want there to be more focus on the Act and the way our companies operate. | Oct 31 17:43 |
| shreddar | More awareness I think is key. | Oct 31 17:44 |
| shreddar | People need perspective. | Oct 31 17:44 |
| shreddar | I had no idea people payed $10 for unlimited outside the US. | Oct 31 17:44 |
| shreddar | Alot of people don't know how fast those services are compared to ours. | Oct 31 17:45 |
| shreddar | If people knew there would already be a big push for this. | Oct 31 17:46 |
| shreddar | Thankfully now educating the public isn't all vanity presses and pamphlets anymore. | Oct 31 17:47 |
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| fewa | http://savetheinternet.com/ | Oct 31 17:48 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Home | Save the Internet .::. Size~: 17.98 KB | Oct 31 17:48 |
| fewa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carterphone | Oct 31 17:48 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Carterfone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 24.28 KB | Oct 31 17:48 |
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| sebsebseb | Hi | Oct 31 17:51 |
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| shreddar | Hey | Oct 31 17:53 |
| shreddar | I just looked at one of their videos on Youtube one guy commented: "i dont get how this saves the internet.,,loks like they want to limit the corporations from making money.,,what business is it of theirs what corporations want to do.,,the free press sounds lik a socialist group,, its truely a socialist ploy,,they always have a name that is the exact opposit of what they actually are." | Oct 31 17:58 |
| shreddar | It's like everything that's pro-consumer is communism or socialist now. | Oct 31 17:59 |
| _Hicham_ | gnome-shell will radically change gnome | Oct 31 18:01 |
| fewa | gnome-shell is cool | Oct 31 18:01 |
| fewa | I like it | Oct 31 18:01 |
| _Hicham_ | are u using it ? | Oct 31 18:02 |
| fewa | just way | Oct 31 18:02 |
| fewa | about 30 min ago | Oct 31 18:02 |
| fewa | now im using the netbook remix gui | Oct 31 18:02 |
| fewa | which is also pretty good | Oct 31 18:02 |
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| *shreddar accidentally hit back button again. | Oct 31 18:03 | |
| shreddar | So is gnome-shell different from gnome's desktop? | Oct 31 18:05 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, a lot | Oct 31 18:08 |
| _Hicham_ | try it | Oct 31 18:08 |
| shreddar | Alright. As long as I can easily change back to KDE afterward. | Oct 31 18:09 |
| _Hicham_ | ur in KDE ? | Oct 31 18:12 |
| _Hicham_ | I thought u were on gnome | Oct 31 18:12 |
| shreddar | No I'm a KDE man. I may have installed Ubuntu but it's still easy to apt-get kubuntu base. Now it's essentially Kubuntu. | Oct 31 18:14 |
| fewa | you could run it from kde | Oct 31 18:14 |
| fewa | just apt-get gnome-shell | Oct 31 18:14 |
| fewa | and then run gnome-shell --replace | Oct 31 18:15 |
| fewa | might mess with or crash plasma | Oct 31 18:15 |
| shreddar | I'm doing it now with synaptic package manager | Oct 31 18:15 |
| shreddar | Oh, I'm going to use it gnome. | Oct 31 18:16 |
| shreddar | I didn't think it would even run under KDE. | Oct 31 18:17 |
| shreddar | I KDM makes it possible I should be able to switch temporarily to gnome to use gnome-shell. | Oct 31 18:18 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Glenn Greenwald #Afghanistan #StateSecrets @Healthcare #Obama #war elite media power politic promise of #transparency http://ur1.ca/ev30 #p2 | Oct 31 18:19 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Leading Political, Legal Blogger Glenn Greenwald on Afghanistan, State Secrets, Healthcare and the Media .::. Size~: 52.62 KB | Oct 31 18:19 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] GlennGreenwald #Afghanistan #StateSecrets #Healthcare #Obama #war elite media power politic promise of #transparency http://ur1.ca/ev30 #p2 | Oct 31 18:20 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Leading Political, Legal Blogger Glenn Greenwald on Afghanistan, State Secrets, Healthcare and the Media .::. Size~: 52.62 KB | Oct 31 18:20 |
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| fewa | schestowitz, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiUDKI0ptyk | Oct 31 18:27 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: YouTube - If You're an American you should see THIS! For Real .::. Size~: 129.07 KB | Oct 31 18:27 |
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| shreddar | OK I installed gnome-shell, logged into gnome. Now how do I switch it to gnome-shell? | Oct 31 18:39 |
| _Hicham_ | gnome-shell --replace& | Oct 31 18:41 |
| shreddar | Thanks | Oct 31 18:43 |
| shreddar | Is it permanent or do I have to do it ever session? | Oct 31 18:43 |
| PetoKraus | oh the joy of Blackberries | Oct 31 18:44 |
| *zer0c00l has quit ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)") | Oct 31 18:44 | |
| shreddar | It seems to run pretty slow. I can't figure out how to change my gnome settings with it either. | Oct 31 18:49 |
| shreddar | Ok I changed the appearance, now. Hopefully this won't effect the way they look in KDE. | Oct 31 18:52 |
| _Hicham_ | shreddar : do u have 3D Hardware Acceleration ? | Oct 31 18:54 |
| _Hicham_ | can u enable compiz ? | Oct 31 18:54 |
| shreddar | Well I enabled it but now the gnome-shell stuff is gone. | Oct 31 18:56 |
| shreddar | Does this mean I have 3D hardware acceleration? | Oct 31 18:57 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] !identica mode for !emacs packaged for fedora: Review Request at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=532241 | Oct 31 19:05 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Bug 532241 – Review Request: emacs-identica-mode - Identica mode for emacs. .::. Size~: 27.43 KB | Oct 31 19:05 |
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| schestowitz | " | Oct 31 19:15 |
| schestowitz | www.guardian.co.uk has disappeared off the InterTUBEs. Not for the | Oct 31 19:15 |
| schestowitz | first time. Can't blame this one on some third party like when their | Oct 31 19:15 |
| schestowitz | jobsite was hacked ... | Oct 31 19:15 |
| schestowitz | http://hackinthebox.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=33510 | Oct 31 19:15 |
| schestowitz | " | Oct 31 19:15 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Oct 31 19:15 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Guardian Jobs hacked :: Hack In The Box :: Keeping Knowledge Free .::. Size~: 53.79 KB | Oct 31 19:15 |
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| shreddar | OK that was a neat experiment. I'm glad the folks working on gnome are trying something new. | Oct 31 19:22 |
| shreddar | It needs work but eventually I think it could replace the gnome desktop. | Oct 31 19:23 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SCO vs #Novell to Continue, #Schmidt Comes to Utah, #GWAVACon Announced http://ping.fm/bftSb | Oct 31 19:25 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Novell News Summary Part II: SCO vs Novell to Continue, Schmidt Comes to Utah, GWAVACon Announced | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 141.51 KB | Oct 31 19:25 |
| shreddar | Other than the responsiveness (probably a result of using Java script) I think the menu/applications can be better integrated. | Oct 31 19:25 |
| shreddar | The system settings should be more strait forward. Of course this is a issue all desktops I've used seem to have. But lately I've noticed it more in KDE and Gnome. | Oct 31 19:27 |
| shreddar | KDE is doing better now but it's still hard to navigate. | Oct 31 19:28 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving") | Oct 31 19:29 | |
| shreddar | Gnome-session kinda does the samething KDE does with the overview of running apps. | Oct 31 19:29 |
| shreddar | KDE's work better. | Oct 31 19:30 |
| shreddar | Other than that I don't really see to much of a difference between Gnome-session and Gnome. | Oct 31 19:33 |
| shreddar | I do think Gnome could lose a bunch of menus and panels. | Oct 31 19:34 |
| shreddar | Make the UI more intuitive. | Oct 31 19:34 |
| shreddar | KDE could do the same at least as far as menu's. | Oct 31 19:35 |
| schestowitz | will there be gnome-shill# ? | Oct 31 19:35 |
| schestowitz | I hope GNOME leaves mono behind | Oct 31 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Fluff piece: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8334688.stm | Oct 31 19:37 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 77.57 KB | Oct 31 19:37 |
| shreddar | I hope that happens too. Doesn't Miguel de Icaza still run the project? | Oct 31 19:37 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Russia too sits tight on (Sun/)Oracle http://ping.fm/7Nqjc | Oct 31 19:39 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | English wine gets help from space .::. Size~: 44.79 KB | Oct 31 19:39 |
| shreddar | I like how KDE has make necessary redesigns in the code and such but I think they can do a little better when it comes to making it user friendly. | Oct 31 19:39 |
| jose | schestowitz, if you read this later: http://consumerist.com/5393726/microsoft-stores-to-sell-bloatware+free-pcs | Oct 31 19:40 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: PCs: Microsoft Stores To Sell Bloatware-Free PCs .::. Size~: 29.29 KB | Oct 31 19:40 |
| schestowitz | jose: yes, I have a post about it coming | Oct 31 19:40 |
| cubezzz | I actually use both KDE and Gnome | Oct 31 19:40 |
| schestowitz | I love it! Microsoft has no choice left | Oct 31 19:40 |
| cubezzz | older KDE though | Oct 31 19:40 |
| schestowitz | They see what's coming | Oct 31 19:40 |
| jose | looks like this might help Linux pull in retailers | Oct 31 19:40 |
| jose | ms != apple | Oct 31 19:40 |
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| schestowitz | jose: yes | Oct 31 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Not will | Oct 31 19:41 |
| jose | ms hardware business => lots of money into trash can | Oct 31 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Already has | Oct 31 19:41 |
| shreddar | Does this mean MS manufactures PC's now? | Oct 31 19:41 |
| jose | Also this link (dated oct 29): http://www.ohgizmo.com/2009/10/29/pcs-purchased-from-microsoft-stores-to-be-bloatware-free/ | Oct 31 19:41 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: OhGizmo! » Archive » PCs Purchased From Microsoft Stores To be Bloatware-Free .::. Size~: 30.32 KB | Oct 31 19:42 |
| jose | maybe they don't manufacture it. not exactly a hardware biz then | Oct 31 19:42 |
| shreddar | Both KDE and Gnome should redesign their user interface. Gnome more-so than KDE. | Oct 31 19:43 |
| cubezzz | rebranded I guess | Oct 31 19:44 |
| cubezzz | not a true manufacturer | Oct 31 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Dell does not manufacture either | Oct 31 19:44 |
| schestowitz | They outsource to Asia | Oct 31 19:45 |
| schestowitz | They assemble | Oct 31 19:45 |
| shreddar | As soon as MS manufactures their own PC's I'd expect OEM's to try to push them out. | Oct 31 19:45 |
| schestowitz | Some bits like casing are custom made | Oct 31 19:45 |
| cubezzz | Mitsumi made the keyboards for Amiga :) | Oct 31 19:45 |
| schestowitz | Foxconn make a lot for the US | Oct 31 19:45 |
| schestowitz | Foxconn alone is bigger than Dell+HP+IBM+MS+Oracle+SAP+.... combined | Oct 31 19:46 |
| cubezzz | for motherboards I like Tyan | Oct 31 19:46 |
| ThistleWeb | schestowitz: did you get round to reading my tesco buyers guide post from today? | Oct 31 19:47 |
| shreddar | Does MS manufacture the XBox? | Oct 31 19:47 |
| cubezzz | Mitsumi is still around too | Oct 31 19:47 |
| cubezzz | must be doing something right | Oct 31 19:47 |
| cubezzz | ah, I believe xbox was/is manufactured by Flextronics | Oct 31 19:48 |
| shreddar | or the Zune? | Oct 31 19:49 |
| cubezzz | also Flextronics I think... | Oct 31 19:50 |
| shreddar | I don't think MS want their PC business to look like their Xbox and Zune business. | Oct 31 19:50 |
| cubezzz | yes, Flextronics for Zune as well | Oct 31 19:50 |
| cubezzz | I'm not seeing Zune in Canadian stores | Oct 31 19:50 |
| cubezzz | I see mostly ipaq's | Oct 31 19:51 |
| *tenderfoot has quit () | Oct 31 19:53 | |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/10/31/flying-chairlet-jose-x/ | Oct 31 19:53 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Octobers Golden Flying Chairlet Award Goes to Jose X | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 107.33 KB | Oct 31 19:53 |
| cubezzz | not cheap either, they're all $375 CAN | Oct 31 19:53 |
| schestowitz | ThistleWeb: I read it now | Oct 31 19:54 |
| shreddar | But if people have the choice what will they chose Window's or Dell, HP, Sony, NEC, Gateway etc.? | Oct 31 19:54 |
| cubezzz | you're comparing apples and oranges there | Oct 31 19:55 |
| cubezzz | and there's lots of other choices | Oct 31 19:55 |
| shreddar | I don't think Windows as a brand means anything against Dell or HP. | Oct 31 19:55 |
| shreddar | Yeah, I didn't want to list all of the choices just the top ones | Oct 31 19:56 |
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| cubezzz | I like Sharp, I like Panasonic for their toughbooks | Oct 31 19:56 |
| schestowitz | mutex is back | Oct 31 19:57 |
| shreddar | Are Windows branded computers going to compete against OEMs? | Oct 31 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Of course | Oct 31 19:57 |
| cubezzz | well, do they call them Microsoft Computers or Windows Computers? | Oct 31 19:58 |
| cubezzz | either way: bleeech | Oct 31 19:58 |
| jose | shreddar, where the MS brand means something, it would pull away from the others. | Oct 31 20:00 |
| jose | Look at it this way, Microsoft gets the OS and software at $0. | Oct 31 20:00 |
| jose | at what price does Dell get it? | Oct 31 20:00 |
| shreddar | Good point. | Oct 31 20:00 |
| jose | So MS can leverage their existing monopolies to take over a market | Oct 31 20:00 |
| schestowitz | http://www.pcworld.com/article/181122/windows_7_upgrade_struggle_continues.html | Oct 31 20:00 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Windows 7 Upgrade Struggle Continues - PC World .::. Size~: 72.89 KB | Oct 31 20:00 |
| jose | hopefully ms will tarnish their brand | Oct 31 20:00 |
| shreddar | They could low ball the competition. | Oct 31 20:01 |
| jose | but that has not stopped them before | Oct 31 20:01 |
| schestowitz | You can easily replace "Windows 7" with "VIsta" in those headlines | Oct 31 20:01 |
| schestowitz | It mirrors the same experinces | Oct 31 20:01 |
| shreddar | But then the PC-standard would die. | Oct 31 20:01 |
| schestowitz | Except the label | Oct 31 20:01 |
| jose | Linux+Openoffice+.... looks good for retailers now i think. | Oct 31 20:01 |
| schestowitz | It if quacks like a duck....... | Oct 31 20:01 |
| cubezzz | I just don't see retailers selling Linux computers except online | Oct 31 20:02 |
| cubezzz | not a big deal for us but still | Oct 31 20:02 |
| shreddar | What about Maemo and Android? | Oct 31 20:03 |
| cubezzz | it seems Microsoft wants to take over everything | Oct 31 20:03 |
| cubezzz | well there's Palm Pre which is Linux based | Oct 31 20:03 |
| jose | retailers will eventually customize their own distros | Oct 31 20:03 |
| shreddar | Yeah that too. | Oct 31 20:03 |
| jose | they get a free OS a free ....... how can they not see the value there | Oct 31 20:04 |
| jose | ms will be isolated.. and they don't have the quality of Apple | Oct 31 20:04 |
| cubezzz | jose: I see some small sellers doing that online | Oct 31 20:04 |
| cubezzz | and Dell is selling some Linux laptops | Oct 31 20:04 |
| jose | as MS retail stores grow, Linux will look that much more tempting | Oct 31 20:04 |
| cubezzz | not there own distros though, just stuff like Linspire or whatever they call it these days | Oct 31 20:05 |
| jose | i think dell knew about this and already took the plunge | Oct 31 20:05 |
| jose | eventually, they will brand their stuff | Oct 31 20:05 |
| shreddar | MS can't hide the cost of their computers. Only their OS. | Oct 31 20:06 |
| cubezzz | we have a Linux only computer store in Toronto :) | Oct 31 20:06 |
| jose | google, canonical and others will strive to provide the tools so that their distros are leveraged rather than someone else's. | Oct 31 20:06 |
| jose | :) ! | Oct 31 20:07 |
| jose | ah, but how large is it? | Oct 31 20:07 |
| PetoKraus | hmm, could someone do me a favour? | Oct 31 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Sure | Oct 31 20:07 |
| PetoKraus | send me a message to 0704867k@student.gla.ac.uk | Oct 31 20:07 |
| jose | MS Office+Windows+ some server is lots of bucks that MS has a headstart on others. | Oct 31 20:07 |
| PetoKraus | i'm testing forwarding | Oct 31 20:07 |
| PetoKraus | thanks ;) | Oct 31 20:07 |
| schestowitz | done, PetoKraus | Oct 31 20:08 |
| cubezzz | type in "Linux computer store" in youtube and you can see it | Oct 31 20:08 |
| shreddar | If they win the PC they'll still probably loose to the consumer. | Oct 31 20:08 |
| schestowitz | Hackindows coming? | Oct 31 20:08 |
| cubezzz | http://www.sub500.com/ | Oct 31 20:08 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Sub300.com - Computers for less .::. Size~: 3.01 KB | Oct 31 20:08 |
| schestowitz | http://news.cnet.com/8301-13641_3-10384838-44.html | Oct 31 20:09 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Lessons for Nook from Zune | Matter/Anti-Matter - CNET News .::. Size~: 75.52 KB | Oct 31 20:09 |
| *schestowitz makes food | Oct 31 20:09 | |
| PetoKraus | schestowitz, thanks dude | Oct 31 20:10 |
| shreddar | Business wouldn't want to be tied to one vendor. | Oct 31 20:12 |
| jose | imagine a savings of $500.. for consumers | Oct 31 20:13 |
| jose | ie, get x and y and z ms software at discount | Oct 31 20:13 |
| jose | if they could scale quickly, they sell the software for peanuts to swallow up market share by the truck load | Oct 31 20:14 |
| jose | ...and if antitrust was not a concern. | Oct 31 20:14 |
| jose | I'm not sure about that one. | Oct 31 20:14 |
| shreddar | Oh that brings up another issue. | Oct 31 20:15 |
| schestowitz | Antitrust is likely | Oct 31 20:16 |
| schestowitz | As OEMs would complain | Oct 31 20:16 |
| schestowitz | A lot of business are stuck with Windows | Oct 31 20:16 |
| schestowitz | So it's not like Apple | Oct 31 20:16 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure if even Microsoft knows how it will handle this to tell you the truth. | Oct 31 20:17 |
| schestowitz | Windows revenue was down by over 40% | Oct 31 20:17 |
| schestowitz | They see what's coming | Oct 31 20:17 |
| schestowitz | They must change or die, and they very well know it | Oct 31 20:17 |
| schestowitz | They tried ads | Oct 31 20:17 |
| schestowitz | For that they must kill Google | Oct 31 20:17 |
| schestowitz | Bong [sic] went nowhere | Oct 31 20:17 |
| schestowitz | And they lose TONS of money online | Oct 31 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Like half a billion/annum/qtr | Oct 31 20:18 |
| schestowitz | So now they think h/w | Oct 31 20:18 |
| shreddar | Just look at the Xbox. | Oct 31 20:18 |
| shreddar | and the Zune | Oct 31 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Pink, Zune, XBox, BillyBox (Microsoft PC) | Oct 31 20:18 |
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| cubezzz | does BillyBox come with a BillyBass? :) | Oct 31 20:20 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft relies on adults who think like toddlers | Oct 31 20:22 |
| schestowitz | "I'm a pee see and I'm 4 years old..." | Oct 31 20:22 |
| MinceR | apparently most people never grow up | Oct 31 20:23 |
| schestowitz | BillyBass needs Ultimate | Oct 31 20:23 |
| ThistleWeb | someone should do a spoof of lots of patients in a hospital "I'm a PC and I have a virus" | Oct 31 20:23 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Oct 31 20:23 |
| schestowitz | !google conficker cambridge | Oct 31 20:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - London hospital recovers from Conficker outbreak • The Register | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/24/nhs_hospital_conficker/ | Oct 31 20:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - ANET News: Conficker Virus Outbreak - Updated 14:23 | http://web.anglia.ac.uk/anet/news/page.phtml%3Fstory%3D02001 | Oct 31 20:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Barcelona Electronic Crime Conference to spotlight Conficker and ... | http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/events/barcelona-electronic-crime-conference-to-spotlight-conficker-and-dalai-lama-hack_100185381.html | Oct 31 20:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Conjuring Conficker and GhostNet | Berkman Center | http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/node/5201 | Oct 31 20:24 |
| ThistleWeb | "I'm a PC and I'm a zombie" as someone dressed as a zombie | Oct 31 20:24 |
| schestowitz | !google conficker glasgow | Oct 31 20:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Enterasys Threat Response - Conficker | http://www.dns.cz/ftp/data/Enterasys/Enterasys_Threat_Response-Conficker.pdf | Oct 31 20:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Conficker Eye Chart - Tech Support Forum | http://www.techsupportforum.com/security-center/general-computer-security/362770-conficker-eye-chart.html | Oct 31 20:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - QualysGuard now remotely detects Conficker : Security Watch ... | http://www.securitywatch.co.uk/2009/04/02/qualysguard-now-remotely-detects-conficker/ | Oct 31 20:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Scottish hospitals laid low by malware infection • The Register | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/09/scot_hostpitals_malware_infection/ | Oct 31 20:24 |
| cubezzz | I did that joke already :) | Oct 31 20:24 |
| shreddar | I just know that MS PC would either flop or kill the PC. | Oct 31 20:24 |
| ThistleWeb | "I'm a PC and I'm under someone elses control" - a puppet | Oct 31 20:24 |
| cubezzz | you can't kill the PC, there's too many of them | Oct 31 20:25 |
| shreddar | if MS was the only vender that would change. | Oct 31 20:25 |
| ThistleWeb | or someone with shifty eyes and a tinfoil hat on "I'm a PC and I'm secure" | Oct 31 20:25 |
| cubezzz | tinfoil implies Stallman which implies GNU/Linux :) | Oct 31 20:26 |
| ThistleWeb | I guess | Oct 31 20:26 |
| ThistleWeb | or a kid with a cereal box as a shield "I'm a PC and I'm secure" | Oct 31 20:26 |
| ThistleWeb | or a unicyclist "I'm a PC and I'm stable" | Oct 31 20:27 |
| shreddar | The hardware business is much more difficult than the software business. | Oct 31 20:27 |
| shreddar | In the software business you just have to worry about R&D costs. | Oct 31 20:27 |
| shreddar | In the hardware business you in addition have to account for manufacturing costs. | Oct 31 20:28 |
| ThistleWeb | it's cheaper to throw together some bytes as a proof of test, than to manufacture a prototype | Oct 31 20:28 |
| MinceR | "tinfoil implies Stallman" -- only for nutcases. | Oct 31 20:28 |
| cubezzz | he uses tinfoil on RFID tags | Oct 31 20:28 |
| ThistleWeb | or a dude in a black suit with dark glasses "I'm a PC and I'm watching you for your own good" | Oct 31 20:29 |
| MinceR | that is not a hat | Oct 31 20:29 |
| cubezzz | that's true :) | Oct 31 20:29 |
| shreddar | So MS would have to put together a really compelling package for people. | Oct 31 20:31 |
| ThistleWeb | lmao an Al Queda style video in Arabic with subtitles "I'm a PC" | Oct 31 20:32 |
| shreddar | MS as a PC company would have to target a market. | Oct 31 20:33 |
| ThistleWeb | MS as a PC company would have to do their own support | Oct 31 20:33 |
| ThistleWeb | instead of leaving that to Dell, HP etc | Oct 31 20:34 |
| shreddar | They could make high end and low end PCs but they'd probably target the high end. | Oct 31 20:34 |
| ThistleWeb | yeah, go head to head with Apple in appealing to people who want to spend a lot more money | Oct 31 20:35 |
| shreddar | if they did low end PCs they'd probably be gimped to make the high end ones more appealing. | Oct 31 20:35 |
| ThistleWeb | apple has a percieved value because of what they offer....windows is percieved as a grey box that crashes a lot | Oct 31 20:35 |
| ThistleWeb | as much as they'd love apple's profit margins and brand value, they dont have a hope | Oct 31 20:36 |
| ThistleWeb | they've made their own bed through contempt for end users | Oct 31 20:37 |
| ThistleWeb | no rebranding with 80's hasbeens is gonna change that | Oct 31 20:37 |
| *PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Oct 31 20:37 | |
| shreddar | As a software vendor they can leave the market targeting to an unlimited amount of OEMs. | Oct 31 20:38 |
| ThistleWeb | with OEMs they have a firewall to avoid accountability and pass blame | Oct 31 20:39 |
| ThistleWeb | when they step into that game, they lose that firewall | Oct 31 20:39 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2009/10/microsofts_windows_7_launch_pa.php | Oct 31 20:39 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft's Windows 7 Launch Parties Prove Predictably Pathetic - Seattle News - The Daily Weekly .::. Size~: 65.34 KB | Oct 31 20:39 |
| schestowitz | [20:28] <cubezzz> he uses tinfoil on RFID tags | Oct 31 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Make a statement | Oct 31 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Like he refuses to surf the Web directly | Oct 31 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Or use blobs | Oct 31 20:40 |
| schestowitz | He sets examples | Oct 31 20:40 |
| schestowitz | If he doesn't obey his ideals, how can he expect his fellow people to do so? | Oct 31 20:40 |
| schestowitz | ANd Oyster is spyware indeed | Oct 31 20:40 |
| schestowitz | Michael Jackson used similar tactics | Oct 31 20:41 |
| schestowitz | He wore a mask | Oct 31 20:41 |
| ThistleWeb | RMS does walk the walk, no matter what anyone thinks of him, he stands by his convictions | Oct 31 20:41 |
| schestowitz | If only just to make a statement and raise awareness about pollution | Oct 31 20:41 |
| schestowitz | By having these photos in the press he had people think about it | Oct 31 20:41 |
| jose | don't kid yourselves. Microsoft with all their software at $0 mark up is quite a force | Oct 31 20:42 |
| jose | they take a hit in the shin to help weed out hardware vendors/retailers | Oct 31 20:43 |
| jose | then they raise prices eventually | Oct 31 20:43 |
| jose | during this time, their stock tumbles (for a couple of years or more) | Oct 31 20:43 |
| schestowitz | That's fine | Oct 31 20:43 |
| schestowitz | They want money, but they open up for GNU/Linux | Oct 31 20:43 |
| shreddar | then consumers go somewere else. | Oct 31 20:43 |
| schestowitz | More allies for rivals of Microsoft | Oct 31 20:43 |
| jose | it would be a rebuilding era for them as the industry consolidates and redefines itself around them | Oct 31 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft turns Dell and HP to direct rivals | Oct 31 20:43 |
| schestowitz | Rather than allies | Oct 31 20:44 |
| jose | with experts out of business, guess who can pick them off? | Oct 31 20:44 |
| schestowitz | BTW...... | Oct 31 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Same in AV SW business | Oct 31 20:44 |
| schestowitz | vs McAfee, Symantec..... | Oct 31 20:44 |
| jose | to compete against this monster you need linux ($0 software) | Oct 31 20:44 |
| jose | and then add value (eg, as services) | Oct 31 20:44 |
| jose | beat ms there | Oct 31 20:44 |
| schestowitz | Symantec may already turn against Windows | Oct 31 20:45 |
| jose | if you use Linux then MS's software all of a sudden becomes expensive for them since they do it all inhouse | Oct 31 20:45 |
| shreddar | or just a better computer with better software. | Oct 31 20:45 |
| schestowitz | A lot of companies that Microsoft backstabbed turned to Linux | Oct 31 20:45 |
| schestowitz | One of them is called I.B.M. | Oct 31 20:45 |
| schestowitz | After OS/2 | Oct 31 20:45 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft was an OS/2 partner | Oct 31 20:45 |
| schestowitz | They stabbed IBM in the back | Oct 31 20:45 |
| shreddar | Thing is MS still couldn't target every market. | Oct 31 20:45 |
| schestowitz | And then used shills against OS/2 | Oct 31 20:45 |
| schestowitz | As well as illegal contracts | Oct 31 20:46 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: they can'yt | Oct 31 20:46 |
| schestowitz | They tried | Oct 31 20:46 |
| schestowitz | And they failed | Oct 31 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Still few cash cows | Oct 31 20:46 |
| schestowitz | Hardware and online business failed | Oct 31 20:46 |
| shreddar | They would need to be positioned in the market somewhere. | Oct 31 20:46 |
| jose | shreddar, yes, and competitors will not necessarily be at a (great) disadvantage when it comes to nonMS proprietary sofware | Oct 31 20:46 |
| schestowitz | But they have no choice | Oct 31 20:46 |
| schestowitz | They must evolve | Oct 31 20:46 |
| jose | as long as ms doesn't own the entire software market, there is hope ;-) | Oct 31 20:47 |
| schestowitz | BillG has already moved on to preying on poor people | Oct 31 20:47 |
| schestowitz | He uses patents and stuff to exploit the world's poor for cash | Oct 31 20:47 |
| schestowitz | Still the same accountant he has always been | Oct 31 20:47 |
| schestowitz | No passion for computers | Oct 31 20:47 |
| schestowitz | jose: they never did | Oct 31 20:47 |
| jose | if there wasn't so much competition (largely due to the existence of FOSS), then MS would be slowly buying up everyone and consolidating in many markets | Oct 31 20:47 |
| schestowitz | news: http://www.crn.com/software/220900607;jsessionid=ULJN43B4KDRMPQE1GHPSKH4ATMY32JVN | Oct 31 20:48 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: How Windows Mobile Is Becoming Microsoft's New Vista - Software - IT Channel News by CRN .::. Size~: 79.95 KB | Oct 31 20:48 |
| jose | i guess they underestimated apple and linux allowed google and many others (ibm, etc) to find a way to fight back | Oct 31 20:48 |
| schestowitz | No, they made rubbish s/w | Oct 31 20:48 |
| schestowitz | Look at Vista, XP, ME....... | Oct 31 20:48 |
| schestowitz | Mediocre junk | Oct 31 20:48 |
| schestowitz | SUN did better in the 90s | Oct 31 20:48 |
| schestowitz | But was more expensive | Oct 31 20:49 |
| schestowitz | A LOT more expensive | Oct 31 20:49 |
| jose | remove linux/foss from the picture and ms has a cakewalk | Oct 31 20:49 |
| schestowitz | [said HoracioG to SteveB] | Oct 31 20:49 |
| shreddar | MS isn't a hardware company though. It's just not their business. | Oct 31 20:50 |
| jose | sun would go out.. eventually oracle as well... if it weren't for foss | Oct 31 20:50 |
| shreddar | It would be very hard to reorganized their company to be a integrated hardware/software company. | Oct 31 20:51 |
| jose | everything is relative on the competition | Oct 31 20:52 |
| shreddar | Sure they have legacy compatibly on their side but that will only take them so far. | Oct 31 20:52 |
| jose | did ms "crappy" sw not make it this far? | Oct 31 20:52 |
| jose | have they not been in antitrust hotwater for decades | Oct 31 20:52 |
| jose | so, i think linux and foss means they won't take over.. but retailers/OEMs/etc that don't pay attention will suffer | Oct 31 20:53 |
| jose | and those that pay attention will have a great shot at being here tomorrow | Oct 31 20:53 |
| schestowitz | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139991/Windows_7_endless_reboot_answer_evades_Microsoft | Oct 31 20:53 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Windows 7 endless reboot answer evades Microsoft .::. Size~: 134.64 KB | Oct 31 20:53 |
| jose | with enough pressure though, ms won't get far because they need lots of cash.. they are not a lean mean company | Oct 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | That's what mini-Microsoft says | Oct 31 20:54 |
| jose | every few years they will repaint their os and try to push it again. | Oct 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | Cisco is lean | Oct 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | jose: and office hog | Oct 31 20:54 |
| schestowitz | They also need to 'break' the old formats | Oct 31 20:55 |
| schestowitz | So that people are force to rebuy | Oct 31 20:55 |
| shreddar | Most people don't buy their OS. | Oct 31 20:55 |
| jose | microsoft's future *may* also depend a lot on what SCOTUS says about software patents. | Oct 31 20:56 |
| shreddar | They buy PCs that have the OS installed on it. | Oct 31 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Vista 7 gets a lot of negative publicity as time goes by | Oct 31 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Real people use in | Oct 31 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Real as in non-experts | Oct 31 20:56 |
| schestowitz | And non-fans [of Windows] | Oct 31 20:56 |
| schestowitz | I love how it turns out so far | Oct 31 20:56 |
| schestowitz | jose: agreed | Oct 31 20:57 |
| schestowitz | No FUD => quicker FOSS adoption | Oct 31 20:57 |
| schestowitz | SCO is still around | Oct 31 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Cahn turned to moni-McBride | Oct 31 20:57 |
| jose | every sw patent that hurts ms also hurts everyone else.. so ms bleeds but they have lots of blood since they have lots of patents. | Oct 31 20:57 |
| schestowitz | Edward Cagn=McBrideBride | Oct 31 20:57 |
| jose | SCOTUS can help crush SCOX | Oct 31 20:58 |
| jose | right? | Oct 31 20:58 |
| schestowitz | No. | Oct 31 20:58 |
| jose | or their claims are now only over copyrights | Oct 31 20:58 |
| jose | ok, fine | Oct 31 20:58 |
| jose | well, unless SCOTUS kills copyrights lol | Oct 31 20:58 |
| schestowitz | SteveB and McBride must be hitting some joint in Acapulco right now. There should have never been a SCO suit | Oct 31 20:59 |
| schestowitz | SCO was supposed to develop Linux | Oct 31 20:59 |
| schestowitz | As it once did | Oct 31 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Or Corel | Oct 31 20:59 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft bought Linux enemies or funded some | Oct 31 20:59 |
| schestowitz | "[Microsoft's] Mr. Emerson and I discussed a variety of investment structures wherein Microsoft would 'backstop,' or guarantee in some way, BayStar's investment.... Microsoft assured me that it would in some way guarantee BayStar's investment in SCO." --Larry Goldfarb, Baystar, key investor in SCO | Oct 31 21:00 |
| *schestowitz looks Vista 7 burger news... GROSS! | Oct 31 21:01 | |
| jose | need to go. | Oct 31 21:03 |
| jose | later.... | Oct 31 21:03 |
| *jose has quit ("Leaving") | Oct 31 21:04 | |
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| lordtoran | f-secure has a tv advertising campaign running now in germany | Oct 31 21:04 |
| lordtoran | just in time with the vista 7 launch :-) | Oct 31 21:04 |
| schestowitz | http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091029/BUSINESS/910299958/-1/OPINION02 | Oct 31 21:12 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Nashuatelegraph.com: Microsofts naming math: Vista plus 1 is 7 .::. Size~: 35.84 KB | Oct 31 21:12 |
| schestowitz | Was f-secure Finnish? | Oct 31 21:12 |
| schestowitz | iirc seconia is Danish | Oct 31 21:12 |
| schestowitz | They slam WIndows | Oct 31 21:12 |
| schestowitz | Saying 99% of the PCs are crackable and not patched, even if up-to-date by Microsoft's standards | Oct 31 21:13 |
| lordtoran | i think they are from finland, yes | Oct 31 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Earlier today I watched this TV show where the host rightly said that the only way to ensure WIndows is clean is to wipe it | Oct 31 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Wipe, then put down only clean file | Oct 31 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Good luck with that | Oct 31 21:13 |
| shreddar | It looks like MS isn't making PC's. | Oct 31 21:13 |
| schestowitz | People think that if a virus scan comes up with nothing, then it means they're in the clear | Oct 31 21:14 |
| shreddar | http://www.tomshardware.com/news/microsoft-signature-pc-crapware-windows,8949.html | Oct 31 21:14 |
| schestowitz | It's always amusing | Oct 31 21:14 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Selling 'Signature PCs' Sans Crapware - Tom's Hardware .::. Size~: 124.22 KB | Oct 31 21:14 |
| schestowitz | Stilll....... | Oct 31 21:14 |
| shreddar | "Microsoft isn't making its own computers for this, however. Instead, it is taking the machines offered by Sony, HP, Dell, Acer and Lenovo and loading on its own Windows 7 configuration to create a "Signature PC."" | Oct 31 21:14 |
| schestowitz | And taking margins | Oct 31 21:15 |
| schestowitz | Pocketing at partners' expense in "Microsoft Stores" | Oct 31 21:15 |
| schestowitz | They won't be happy | Oct 31 21:15 |
| lordtoran | there has also been an anti-piracy campaign running on TV for a few months | Oct 31 21:17 |
| lordtoran | "don't make yourself susceptible to blackmail" | Oct 31 21:18 |
| lordtoran | i sort of agree | Oct 31 21:19 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Oct 31 21:25 |
| schestowitz | Not how they intended | Oct 31 21:25 |
| schestowitz | So will they shut down those who blackmail | Oct 31 21:25 |
| schestowitz | Like RIAA, MPAA, and Microsoft... :-) | Oct 31 21:25 |
| schestowitz | RIAA/MPAA =Warner, Universal, Sony, other companies that hide behind proxies/front groups | Oct 31 21:26 |
| schestowitz | Ah | Oct 31 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Another Microsoft product has judt died | Oct 31 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Two in one week | Oct 31 21:27 |
| schestowitz | http://www.internetnews.com/software/article.php/3846426/Microsoft+Axes+Office+Accounting+Software.htm | Oct 31 21:28 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Axes Office Accounting Software - InternetNews.com .::. Size~: 146.43 KB | Oct 31 21:28 |
| shreddar | Still it's not MS Word or Excel... | Oct 31 21:30 |
| shreddar | I wonder how those are doing by the way. | Oct 31 21:31 |
| shreddar | I mean who still pays for Word and Excel? | Oct 31 21:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft has just killed Office Accounting. Post coming soon... | Oct 31 21:33 | |
| lordtoran | the company i work in doesn't pay a lot for MS office | Oct 31 21:34 |
| lordtoran | everything is thin clients and the app server is in another city | Oct 31 21:34 |
| lordtoran | they still have to pay for a site license i guess | Oct 31 21:35 |
| schestowitz | http://broadbandcensus.com/2009/10/microsoft-yahoo-weigh-in-on-fcc%E2%80%99s-proposed-open-internet-rules/ | Oct 31 21:36 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft, Yahoo Weigh In On FCC’s Proposed Open Internet Rules | BroadbandCensus.com .::. Size~: 37.71 KB | Oct 31 21:36 |
| schestowitz | [21:30] <shreddar> Still it's not MS Word or Excel... | Oct 31 21:36 |
| schestowitz | Cause they are #1 cash cows | Oct 31 21:36 |
| schestowitz | Wouldn't make sense to harms then, BUT... | Oct 31 21:36 |
| schestowitz | THey lost business | Oct 31 21:36 |
| schestowitz | At double-digit rate | Oct 31 21:36 |
| schestowitz | Google Apps among the culprits | Oct 31 21:37 |
| schestowitz | FOSS too | Oct 31 21:37 |
| schestowitz | So Microsoft is to cannibalise office, with Web version of it | Oct 31 21:37 |
| schestowitz | wallclimber must be thrillllllllled about this: http://www.wwd.com/retail-news/microsoft-s-first-store-opens-in-arizona-2353261?justin=2353261 | Oct 31 21:39 |
| schestowitz | She's gonna go there to test the staff :-) | Oct 31 21:39 |
| shreddar | In what way? | Oct 31 21:39 |
| schestowitz | This makes lame claims: http://www.courierpress.com/news/2009/oct/30/linux-an-alternative-for-those-who-tinker/ | Oct 31 21:40 |
| schestowitz | "Trying to explain what /etc or /usr are and why you should never touch them to a non-technical person can be challenging." | Oct 31 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Go ahead and explain to them what "c:/" means | Oct 31 21:40 |
| schestowitz | c:\, sorry | Oct 31 21:41 |
| schestowitz | "It's an impressive feat. That said, I still wouldn't be comfortable putting my grandmother on Linux." | Oct 31 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Do I smell sexism or hatred for old age? :-) | Oct 31 21:41 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: maybe try to see if it boot a Linux Live CD b4 she buys | Oct 31 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Y'know, rock day motha out with Compiz in the middle of BillShop :-) | Oct 31 21:42 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: your apartment? http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10383731-1.html | Oct 31 21:46 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Apple set to raise curtain on 4th Manhattan store | Crave - CNET .::. Size~: 98.75 KB | Oct 31 21:46 |
| MinceR | nope | Oct 31 21:47 |
| shreddar | "Linux on the desktop still doesn't do a great job of hiding many of the geekier aspects of the system from normal users." | Oct 31 21:47 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: you don't like? Why? Why you don't like? | Oct 31 21:47 |
| MinceR | it's crApple. | Oct 31 21:48 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: I was looking for examples | Oct 31 21:48 |
| schestowitz | I saw that | Oct 31 21:48 |
| shreddar | This is kinda true but Windows isn't completely innocent in that regard. | Oct 31 21:48 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: some people luuurve it. | Oct 31 21:48 |
| MinceR | there are lots of stupid people. | Oct 31 21:48 |
| schestowitz | !google asay fanbot | Oct 31 21:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Controlled Evaluation of BacT/Alert Standard Aerobic and FAN ... | http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/reprint/33/4/978.pdf | Oct 31 21:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Comparison of BACTEC PLUS Blood Culture Media to BacT/Alert FA ... | http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/reprint/45/3/816.pdf | Oct 31 21:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Full text of "The Original Chronicle of Andrew of Wyntoun Printed ... | http://www.archive.org/stream/originalchronic02neilgoog/originalchronic02neilgoog_djvu.txt | Oct 31 21:48 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - AUTHOR SECTION | http://www.paho.org/english/AD/DPC/CD/antimicrobial-p2.pdf | Oct 31 21:48 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: but kids 'learn' Windows at school | Oct 31 21:49 |
| schestowitz | In "computer" classes | Oct 31 21:49 |
| MinceR | fanbot? :) | Oct 31 21:49 |
| shreddar | Yeah, I learned Windows in kindergarten. | Oct 31 21:50 |
| schestowitz | scammy lawyers: [see headline] http://www.legalbrief.co.za/article.php?story=20091028085520543 | Oct 31 21:51 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Legalbrief - Microsoft, Yahoo deal approved .::. Size~: 11.44 KB | Oct 31 21:51 |
| schestowitz | They sell the illusion it passed | Oct 31 21:51 |
| schestowitz | Cause some meta-industry of liars nodded | Oct 31 21:51 |
| schestowitz | The lawyers and marketers meet | Oct 31 21:51 |
| schestowitz | Two useless 'industries' | Oct 31 21:51 |
| schestowitz | "Microsoft, Yahoo deal approve," they say. But it's now. | Oct 31 21:52 |
| schestowitz | *Not | Oct 31 21:52 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: it was a typo. I meant to type fanboi | Oct 31 21:52 |
| schestowitz | http://www.crn.com/software/221300016;jsessionid=0RBHR3RRFJB2LQE1GHPSKHWATMY32JVN | Oct 31 21:52 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Sage Channel Chief: Microsoft Lost Touch With Partners - Software - IT Channel News by CRN .::. Size~: 85.57 KB | Oct 31 21:53 |
| MinceR | well, they don't have too much mental activity :> | Oct 31 21:53 |
| shreddar | I don't think PC's period are fit for most consumers. | Oct 31 21:53 |
| shreddar | For starters there really is no need for an OS. | Oct 31 21:53 |
| MinceR | i doubt that | Oct 31 21:54 |
| shreddar | There is no need for a desktop. | Oct 31 21:54 |
| shreddar | There is no need for start menu. | Oct 31 21:54 |
| shreddar | or system menu. | Oct 31 21:54 |
| MinceR | there is plenty for need for drivers and a network stack. :> | Oct 31 21:55 |
| MinceR | s/for/of/ | Oct 31 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmm...... | Oct 31 21:56 |
| schestowitz | " | Oct 31 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. Daniel at Roughly Drafted wrote an article taking a shot at Tech Crunch | Oct 31 21:56 |
| schestowitz | http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/10/29/techcrunchs-erick-schonfeld-insists-google-wrote-the-iphone/ | Oct 31 21:56 |
| schestowitz | It does this by leveraging patented platform features; insisting that App Store titles are created using Apple’s tools and not just lowest common denominator Java/Flash/.Net/Mono tools that do nothing to differentiate apps on the iPhone; | Oct 31 21:56 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: TechCrunchs Erick Schonfeld insists Google wrote the iPhone RoughlyDrafted Magazine .::. Size~: 61.79 KB | Oct 31 21:56 |
| schestowitz | taking a revenue share that gives Apple a slice of the tremendous value it created in building the App Store (following the lead of Nintendo in gaming), and exerting control over how third party apps work on its platform. | Oct 31 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Guess the Mono boys will love this. | Oct 31 21:56 |
| schestowitz | " | Oct 31 21:56 |
| shreddar | I guess but I think most apps could access the hardware directly. | Oct 31 21:56 |
| shreddar | I don't think there needs to a desktop in any case. | Oct 31 21:57 |
| lordtoran | they do through drivers | Oct 31 21:57 |
| lordtoran | i agree that desktops are too complicated for novice users | Oct 31 21:57 |
| lordtoran | and too bloated | Oct 31 21:58 |
| schestowitz | http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091026-716031.html | Oct 31 21:58 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Google Launches Google Social Search Amid Social-Media Battle - WSJ.com .::. Size~: 103.3 KB | Oct 31 21:58 |
| MinceR | most apps accessing the hardware directly means developing support for every device separately in every app | Oct 31 21:59 |
| schestowitz | lordtoran: yes, compred to phons | Oct 31 21:59 |
| MinceR | it also means no sharing between apps | Oct 31 21:59 |
| schestowitz | I think Google is taking a shot at it now | Oct 31 21:59 |
| MinceR | it's a very bad idea | Oct 31 21:59 |
| MinceR | it also ruins stability | Oct 31 21:59 |
| schestowitz | Canonical tried with Remix | Oct 31 21:59 |
| lordtoran | that's what i meant, phones can have high power hardware but simple guis | Oct 31 21:59 |
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| schestowitz | Due to limitations mostly | Oct 31 22:00 |
| MinceR | mobile phones are not a single app | Oct 31 22:00 |
| schestowitz | It's a difficult subject | Oct 31 22:00 |
| schestowitz | You need to check who your market is | Oct 31 22:00 |
| schestowitz | In Appel's case for instance... | Oct 31 22:00 |
| schestowitz | People who just know how to press "on" button? | Oct 31 22:00 |
| schestowitz | And those who need to wait for 2008 to 'introduce' cut & paste | Oct 31 22:01 |
| shreddar | MinceR You're right. I really meant the Desktop. | Oct 31 22:01 |
| schestowitz | http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/26/microsoft-google-and-the-bear/?hpw | Oct 31 22:02 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Oct 31 22:02 |
| schestowitz | Do know evil? http://www.slashgear.com/google-doing-exactly-what-microsoft-did-says-angry-gps-app-dev-3062350/ | Oct 31 22:05 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Google doing exactly what Microsoft did says angry GPS app dev - SlashGear .::. Size~: 56.48 KB | Oct 31 22:05 |
| lordtoran | microsoft does not understand markets it didn't create | Oct 31 22:10 |
| lordtoran | that's obvious :-) | Oct 31 22:10 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft and others wants /YOUR/ medical data | Oct 31 22:14 |
| schestowitz | http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2009/10/26/microsoft-and-its-competitors-still-in-search-of-mainstream-user-base-for-personal-health-records/ | Oct 31 22:14 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft and Its Competitors Still In Search of Mainstream User Base for Personal Health Records | Xconomy .::. Size~: 54.73 KB | Oct 31 22:14 |
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| shreddar | I think one thing Windows users will immediately see is how Ubuntu can go hardcore with the security. | Oct 31 22:22 |
| shreddar | In XP you have most admin privileges by default I think. | Oct 31 22:22 |
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| shreddar | In Ubuntu anytime you want to install a package or update you need to put in the admin password. | Oct 31 22:24 |
| schestowitz | http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/227225/acer-overtakes-dell-global-pc-share | Oct 31 22:24 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Acer overtakes Dell in global PC share | Manila Bulletin .::. Size~: 20.58 KB | Oct 31 22:24 |
| shreddar | At first I remember gnome network manager told me to set up a wireless ring password. For awhile I had to put it in everytime I wanted to connect. | Oct 31 22:25 |
| shreddar | Eventually I was able to disable it but it wasn't obvious. | Oct 31 22:27 |
| schestowitz | That's how it should be done | Oct 31 22:28 |
| schestowitz | And KDE has kwallet | Oct 31 22:28 |
| schestowitz | It also acts a bit like master password | Oct 31 22:28 |
| schestowitz | So I don't have to reenter many passwords each session | Oct 31 22:28 |
| shreddar | I was talking about the default desktop on Ubuntu. (Gnome) | Oct 31 22:31 |
| schestowitz | http://gawker.com/5390375/cnbcs-microsoft-fail | Oct 31 22:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: CNBC's Microsoft Fail - Cnbc - Gawker .::. Size~: 63.81 KB | Oct 31 22:32 |
| schestowitz | shreddar: I know | Oct 31 22:33 |
| schestowitz | Slow news day: http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/700366/Dog-Buys-Microsoft-Points.html | Oct 31 22:35 |
| schestowitz | No proof, just word of mouth | Oct 31 22:35 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Dog Buys Microsoft Points - G4tv.com .::. Size~: 164.31 KB | Oct 31 22:35 |
| schestowitz | Does anyone remember "Surface"? | Oct 31 22:36 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft must be planning to axe it soon | Oct 31 22:36 |
| schestowitz | I've just seen one headline about it | Oct 31 22:36 |
| shreddar | I think its a joke article. | Oct 31 22:36 |
| schestowitz | And though, "wow!! I forgot it even still existed" | Oct 31 22:36 |
| schestowitz | http://www.walyou.com/blog/2009/10/26/dungeons-and-dragons-microsoft-surface-game/ | Oct 31 22:36 |
| cubezzz | is that like Dillinger's desk in Tron? | Oct 31 22:36 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Dungeons and Dragons on Microsoft Surface | Walyou .::. Size~: 33.84 KB | Oct 31 22:36 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft was going to kill it before arrival | Oct 31 22:36 |
| *ThistleWeb has quit ("Lost terminal") | Oct 31 22:36 | |
| schestowitz | But BillG vetoed | Oct 31 22:36 |
| shreddar | How can they even still be in business lossing all that money? | Oct 31 22:37 |
| cubezzz | windows itself | Oct 31 22:37 |
| cubezzz | all that money from OEM's and practical every computer sold in stores | Oct 31 22:37 |
| schestowitz | http://iafrica.com/business/markets/market_report/2008860.htm "software giant Microsoft reported a profit fall." | Oct 31 22:37 |
| cubezzz | practically | Oct 31 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Heh. Maybe Surface will be at BillyStore :-) | Oct 31 22:38 |
| schestowitz | To sit on | Oct 31 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Big-Ass bench | Oct 31 22:38 |
| schestowitz | spare supply | Oct 31 22:38 |
| schestowitz | Take them out of the warehouses, dust them off, put them to use at shops | Oct 31 22:38 |
| cubezzz | they were talking about big ass touch screen computers in 2007 | Oct 31 22:39 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Oct 31 22:39 |
| schestowitz | Project Milan IIRC | Oct 31 22:39 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/27/idc_gartner_virt_server/ | Oct 31 22:40 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Fake servers sell better than real servers • The Register .::. Size~: 37.23 KB | Oct 31 22:40 |
| cubezzz | could be the beginning of a decline for the Big M | Oct 31 22:48 |
| cubezzz | probably is | Oct 31 22:48 |
| shreddar | virtualization? | Oct 31 22:49 |
| cubezzz | you can download all these distros for free, people are willing to work for less | Oct 31 22:49 |
| cubezzz | all adds up to less money for Microsoft | Oct 31 22:49 |
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| shreddar | Yep | Oct 31 22:50 |
| cubezzz | they are the great copiers... | Oct 31 22:50 |
| cubezzz | they copied basic, and now they copy Apple | Oct 31 22:50 |
| shreddar | The ported basic | Oct 31 22:52 |
| cubezzz | Woz actually wrote a good basic back in the day | Oct 31 22:52 |
| cubezzz | but it didn't do floating point arithmetic, only fixed point | Oct 31 22:53 |
| shreddar | I think the fact that MS sees itself as a platforms company says a lot about how useful they are. At least taking into consideration their main product is a software platform. | Oct 31 22:57 |
| schestowitz | [22:48] <cubezzz> could be the beginning of a decline for the Big M | Oct 31 22:58 |
| schestowitz | No | Oct 31 22:58 |
| schestowitz | That was years ago | Oct 31 22:58 |
| MinceR | basic sucks anyway | Oct 31 22:58 |
| schestowitz | I actually enjoy reading MSFT news this evening | Oct 31 22:58 |
| schestowitz | As Linux grows in HPC, servers, netbooks, phones etc it's mostly bad news for Microsoft | Oct 31 22:58 |
| schestowitz | They are killing products | Oct 31 22:59 |
| schestowitz | More layoffs | Oct 31 22:59 |
| schestowitz | Chiefs leave (including ones whom I know from 1980s E-mails) | Oct 31 22:59 |
| schestowitz | They move to other companies like Amazon and Cisco | Oct 31 22:59 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: BASIC is not Microsoft's | Oct 31 23:00 |
| schestowitz | !google basic kemenny | Oct 31 23:00 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Trip report, 30 days in Prague, my new favorite place!! | Europe ... | http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/trip-report-30-days-in-prague-my-new-favorite-place.cfm | Oct 31 23:00 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - New Formulas for America's Workforce | http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2003/nsf03207/nsf03207_4.pdf | Oct 31 23:00 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - New Formulas for America's Workforce | http://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2003/nsf03207/nsf03207.pdf | Oct 31 23:00 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - TRACES OF MAGMA An annotated bibliography of left literature | http://www.rolfknight.ca/Traces.pdf | Oct 31 23:00 |
| schestowitz | !google basic kemmeny ? | Oct 31 23:00 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - President Jimmy Carter/Admiral Hyman Rickover/3 Mile Island Cover-Up | http://www.ratical.org/radiation/TMIcoverup.html | Oct 31 23:00 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - VIEW FULL VERSION: Link Subject: Taariikhada Computerka Content ... | http://yawaaye.com/index.php%3Fdo%3D/public/archive/mod_forum/id_27/title_taariikhada-computerka/ | Oct 31 23:00 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Journal of Health Psychology | http://hpq.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/13/8/1021.pdf | Oct 31 23:00 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - G-networks with multiple classes of negative and positive ... | http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/0304397595000186 | Oct 31 23:00 |
| cubezzz | they stole the PDP-10 time to write 8080 emulator | Oct 31 23:00 |
| schestowitz | Ah, welll... anyway, Microsoft got its INNOVA~1 in the trash can, literally | Oct 31 23:00 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: doesn't matter whose it is, it still sucks | Oct 31 23:01 |
| cubezzz | PDP-10 at Harvard btw | Oct 31 23:01 |
| cubezzz | then "The Letter" | Oct 31 23:02 |
| cubezzz | pot kettle black | Oct 31 23:02 |
| shreddar | Who want's to pay for a software platform? | Oct 31 23:02 |
| shreddar | Word and Excel on the other hand are things people would want to pay for. | Oct 31 23:03 |
| cubezzz | I would, under certain conditions | Oct 31 23:03 |
| cubezzz | people do, even for Linux, lots of people sell it | Oct 31 23:03 |
| cubezzz | but dropping $200 for Vista or Microsoft Office, no :) | Oct 31 23:04 |
| schestowitz | Jamaican press 'forgets' Microsoft #1 os competitor: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/magazines/Business/html/20091027T210000-0500_162621_OBS_MICROSOFT_READY_FOR_BATTLE_IN_OS_WAR.asp | Oct 31 23:04 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft ready for battle in OS war - JamaicaObserver.com .::. Size~: 32.02 KB | Oct 31 23:05 |
| cubezzz | Microsoft can't control the internet itself | Oct 31 23:05 |
| schestowitz | It tried | Oct 31 23:05 |
| schestowitz | Now it's controlled by Windows......... zombies. | Oct 31 23:06 |
| schestowitz | "Spam will be a thing of the past in two years’ time." --Bill Gates, 2004 | Oct 31 23:06 |
| schestowitz | "The Internet? We are not interested in it." --Bill Gates, 1993 | Oct 31 23:06 |
| shreddar | The only value in a software platform is the application that come with it. | Oct 31 23:06 |
| cubezzz | not at all | Oct 31 23:07 |
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| cubezzz | gcc itself is even more important | Oct 31 23:07 |
| cubezzz | at one time lotus 1-2-3 was important | Oct 31 23:08 |
| cubezzz | any closed source app could die | Oct 31 23:08 |
| cubezzz | what really has stood the test of time? | Oct 31 23:10 |
| *amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04 | Oct 31 23:10 | |
| cubezzz | portable stuff like *nix | Oct 31 23:10 |
| schestowitz | Looks like an ad: http://www.sltrib.com/technology/ci_13644672 | Oct 31 23:10 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft's fresh start - Salt Lake Tribune .::. Size~: 70.75 KB | Oct 31 23:10 |
| schestowitz | How much does Microsoft bribe (if any) for such fluff? | Oct 31 23:10 |
| amarsh04 | it fills column inches | Oct 31 23:11 |
| *shreddar has quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) | Oct 31 23:11 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2601290/ | Oct 31 23:11 |
| amarsh04 | it's microsoft, it must be news | Oct 31 23:11 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Oct 31 23:11 |
| schestowitz | What about Ubuntu? | Oct 31 23:11 |
| schestowitz | "Price"... | Oct 31 23:11 |
| schestowitz | "Why to buy"... | Oct 31 23:12 |
| schestowitz | "It's not Windows"... | Oct 31 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Salt Lake Tribune does no Linux coverage | Oct 31 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Except for SCO.. | Oct 31 23:12 |
| schestowitz | Where they quote McDarl | Oct 31 23:12 |
| cubezzz | yeah people don't get excited about autoconf :) | Oct 31 23:12 |
| schestowitz | That'd be Tom Harvey anyway | Oct 31 23:12 |
| cubezzz | I'm not seeing a lot of Linux news | Oct 31 23:16 |
| cubezzz | not in main stream media | Oct 31 23:16 |
| *shreddar (i=62f0385c@gateway/web/freenode/x-xhfvotogqnhbypow) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 31 23:21 | |
| schestowitz | http://voices.allthingsd.com/20091030/seth-macfarlane-is-too-much-for-microsoft-but-south-park-and-two-and-a-half-men-are-no-problem/ | Oct 31 23:21 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Seth MacFarlane Is Too Much for Microsoft, but South Park and Two and a Half Men Are No Problem | Joe Flint | Voices | AllThingsD .::. Size~: 35.68 KB | Oct 31 23:21 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: did you ever? | Oct 31 23:21 |
| schestowitz | English-speaking media is more discriminatory than most | Oct 31 23:22 |
| schestowitz | I reckon it's because the software giants are currently USian | Oct 31 23:22 |
| schestowitz | Oracle, IBM, Microsoft.... | Oct 31 23:22 |
| cubezzz | Unix was mostly in academia | Oct 31 23:22 |
| schestowitz | But the sentiments are different elsewhere, OS usage likewise | Oct 31 23:22 |
| cubezzz | well, there was big talk around 2000 | Oct 31 23:23 |
| cubezzz | when the breakup of microsoft was still a possibility | Oct 31 23:24 |
| shreddar | I think it's because MacFarlane has openly mocked MS for it's TRUSTs. | Oct 31 23:25 |
| cubezzz | frat boy humour is too low even for Microsoft | Oct 31 23:26 |
| shreddar | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXCRUE4Bip8 | Oct 31 23:27 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: YouTube - Family Guy - iPod vs Zune .::. Size~: 129.19 KB | Oct 31 23:27 |
| shreddar | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5j-D1NfpZY | Oct 31 23:28 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: YouTube - Family Guy - Bill Gates tells Michael Eisner that people are ants .::. Size~: 116.56 KB | Oct 31 23:28 |
| schestowitz | Yuck: "Microsoft has been leading the way for a couple years now to make medical records go electronic, and put individuals in charge of them, but the HealthVault software is still a long way from gaining mainstream acceptance." http://www.seattlepi.com/xconomy/411652_xconomy48187.html | Oct 31 23:30 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: ZymoGenetics Rival Emerges, Omeros IPO Casts Shadow, Microsoft?s HealthVault Seeks Users, & More Seattle Area Life Sciences News .::. Size~: 42.48 KB | Oct 31 23:30 |
| schestowitz | [23:26] <cubezzz> frat boy humour is too low even for Microsoft | Oct 31 23:31 |
| schestowitz | Don't worry | Oct 31 23:31 |
| schestowitz | They have lard burgers | Oct 31 23:31 |
| cubezzz | "Indian state of Kerala has gone so far as to make it mandatory for all state high schools to run Linux on their computers." | Oct 31 23:32 |
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| cubezzz | well IBM uses Linux, Orcale I think uses Linux | Oct 31 23:33 |
| cubezzz | IBM ran all those Linux commercials with the blonde kid | Oct 31 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Yes, Kerala does OK | Oct 31 23:37 |
| schestowitz | It didn't take Microsoft's 'gift' | Oct 31 23:37 |
| schestowitz | Rory Cellan-Jones is not happy w/ me... | Oct 31 23:39 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/ruskin147 | Oct 31 23:39 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Rory Cellan-Jones (ruskin147) on Twitter .::. Size~: 37.77 KB | Oct 31 23:39 |
| schestowitz | He links to BN | Oct 31 23:39 |
| schestowitz | "http://bit.ly/1jWlOe according to this I am a "microsoft drone" who has been "dining with MS for years...". Just thought I'd share that..." | Oct 31 23:40 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Businesses Massively Reject Vista 7 and Microsoft Ecosystem Starts Attacking Ubuntu Ahead of Release | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 124.74 KB | Oct 31 23:40 |
| cubezzz | well did you say that? :) | Oct 31 23:41 |
| cubezzz | or is he para-phrasing | Oct 31 23:41 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Oct 31 23:42 |
| schestowitz | It's true | Oct 31 23:42 |
| schestowitz | He didn't even deny it :-) | Oct 31 23:42 |
| shreddar | "MR. PEWTERSCHMIDT: Uh, Bill, Peter's an antitrust lawyer with the Justice Department. (Bill Gates punches Peter in the face. Mr Pewterschmidt laughs.)" | Oct 31 23:43 |
| shreddar | it took me forever to find it. | Oct 31 23:43 |
| schestowitz | http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/ | Oct 31 23:43 |
| cubezzz | "The United States Department of Defense uses Linux - "the U.S. Army is “the” single largest install base for Red Hat Linux" | Oct 31 23:46 |
| cubezzz | I'd say that FOSS is big-time now | Oct 31 23:47 |
| *shreddar has quit ("browsing") | Oct 31 23:51 | |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Oct 31 23:53 |
| schestowitz | http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idUKN2723820620091027 | Oct 31 23:53 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: yes, it's increasing | Oct 31 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Press coverage in general declined | Oct 31 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Many journos out of work | Oct 31 23:54 |
| schestowitz | many news sites turns to skeletons ites | Oct 31 23:54 |
| schestowitz | *Sites (just archives) | Oct 31 23:54 |
| schestowitz | This is good | Oct 31 23:54 |
| schestowitz | Linux gets a lot of good coverage in blogs | Oct 31 23:54 |
| schestowitz | In the press it was having the Microsoft Jacks causing trouble | Oct 31 23:54 |
| schestowitz | LOL http://twitter.com/jamestutt/status/5317461268 | Oct 31 23:58 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Twitter / jamestutt: @ruskin147 Link broken but ... .::. Size~: 7.2 KB | Oct 31 23:58 |
| schestowitz | Rory's pals from Microsoft UK | Oct 31 23:58 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/#search?q=ruskin147 | Oct 31 23:59 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Twitter .::. Size~: 22.55 KB | Oct 31 23:59 |
| schestowitz | His fans defend him | Oct 31 23:59 |
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