| schestowitz | oiaohm: remember McDarl came from Novell | Nov 02 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | Also, Noorda did some Linux at Novell before spinning that odd as Caldera | Nov 02 00:00 |
| schestowitz | *off | Nov 02 00:00 |
| schestowitz | IIRC | Nov 02 00:00 |
| oiaohm | Exactly schestowitz | Nov 02 00:00 |
| schestowitz | But to suggest Novell made SCO sue is weird | Nov 02 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Novell is an IBM partner | Nov 02 00:00 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it wasn't back then | Nov 02 00:00 |
| oiaohm | I have had the bad taste of seeing contracts Novell does with its partners. | Nov 02 00:01 |
| oiaohm | Novell and SCO contract is classical. The way it worded is all non legally bond items of Unix can be transfered. Lot of Novell source code of Unix was still bound up because of the BSD case and not transferable. | Nov 02 00:03 |
| oiaohm | Yet Novell never made that clear. | Nov 02 00:04 |
| oiaohm | Yes SCO mostly aquired a almost worthless bit of a paper saying they had some rights to Unix. | Nov 02 00:05 |
| schestowitz | So why is Novell hailed as Linux saviour in the SCO case? | Nov 02 00:05 |
| schestowitz | Your answer would be interesing,. | Nov 02 00:05 |
| oiaohm | Look at when Novell steped in then you see a problem. | Nov 02 00:05 |
| schestowitz | But does Novell deserve credit at all? | Nov 02 00:06 |
| oiaohm | SCO was going around demarding payment from everyone for usage of LInux due to breaching UNIX stuff. Novell did nothing. | Nov 02 00:06 |
| schestowitz | If I give someone a rifle and then ask for it back, does it make me responsible? | Nov 02 00:06 |
| oiaohm | Novell only step in when SCO attempt to take out IBM to make people pay up. | Nov 02 00:06 |
| oiaohm | Of course IBM is not a push over. When pushed they will dig. | Nov 02 00:07 |
| oiaohm | Novell was basically trying to save there hide. Before IBM got to them. And spin it into being a savour of Linux. | Nov 02 00:07 |
| oiaohm | The question is Hailed by who as saviour. In my mind IBM was the saviour because they were not going to fold before SCO threats. | Nov 02 00:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Citigroup and #Tesco : #Banking Yes, #GNU #Linux No http://ping.fm/uDmHS | Nov 02 00:15 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Citigroup and Tesco: Banking Yes, GNU/Linux No | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 91.57 KB | Nov 02 00:15 |
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| oiaohm | schestowitz: I also missed a big one before the IBM vs SCO case there was a SCO vs SUN case that stoped when the IBM case started. Victory by SUN in this case would have equal SUN rereleasing the Linux source code so rendering SCO attacks against Linux dead. | Nov 02 00:38 |
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| oiaohm | Both IBM and SUN were working to save Linux. | Nov 02 00:38 |
| oiaohm | Just in different ways. | Nov 02 00:38 |
| DaemonFC | I'm really not seing what makes x86 such a fundamentally bad thing | Nov 02 00:39 |
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| oiaohm | DaemonFC: Cpu core and instruction set differenet so needing a translation engine. Transltation engine leads to highly verable times to run the same instructions. | Nov 02 00:41 |
| oiaohm | And eating more power than a CPU core design that does not need a translation engine. | Nov 02 00:42 |
| oiaohm | Is this not enough? DaemonFC | Nov 02 00:42 |
| DaemonFC | meh, it's not that much is it? | Nov 02 00:43 |
| oiaohm | The power draw is over double DaemonFC | Nov 02 00:43 |
| oiaohm | Due to the translation engine. | Nov 02 00:43 |
| oiaohm | We would be better off with recompliers. | Nov 02 00:44 |
| oiaohm | Ie run the translation once so not needing to do it over and over again. | Nov 02 00:44 |
| oiaohm | Highly verable timing of instructions also means cpu time has to be wasted to match real time requirements like audio play back as well. Because you cannot depend on how long its going to take to process. | Nov 02 00:46 |
| oiaohm | Its more where is a x86 chip not kicking you in the nuts DaemonFC | Nov 02 00:47 |
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| shreddar | Hey would any one know why some of my apps are using Documents as the default folder now? | Nov 02 00:54 |
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| shreddar | It didn't really bother me until I used Wine and it had the same problem and has lead so some annoying errors. | Nov 02 00:55 |
| shreddar | I heard that this was a bug in Gnome/Ubuntu but it is supposedly fixed in Feisty. Obviously it's not fixed anymore. | Nov 02 00:59 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is full of bugs and random annoyances | Nov 02 01:06 |
| DaemonFC | I think just just about any system tends to be that way anymore | Nov 02 01:07 |
| DaemonFC | When Flash finally works right, call me | Nov 02 01:07 |
| DaemonFC | works right = Functions with my webcam/microphone | Nov 02 01:08 |
| DaemonFC | it does on Windows, it does on the Mac | Nov 02 01:08 |
| DaemonFC | it has for years | Nov 02 01:08 |
| cubezzz | I use flash with no problems | Nov 02 01:09 |
| shreddar | Have you had this default directory problem though? | Nov 02 01:09 |
| DaemonFC | shreddar, Wine tends to throw things in the damndest places cause there really are no rules for where files should go in Windows | Nov 02 01:10 |
| cubezzz | not that l like Flash, I don't | Nov 02 01:10 |
| DaemonFC | so whenever something wants to save its settings in "My Documents", Wine will just throw it in your Home folder | Nov 02 01:11 |
| oiaohm | Not 100 percent correct DaemonFC | Nov 02 01:11 |
| shreddar | I know it's Wine though. It abunch gnome apps too. (at least the ones that don't remember the last directory you accessed) | Nov 02 01:11 |
| oiaohm | That location is set able DaemonFC | Nov 02 01:11 |
| DaemonFC | that's not Wine's fault really, though I suppose they could redirect it | Nov 02 01:11 |
| shreddar | I know it's not Wine though. It abunch gnome apps too. (at least the ones that don't remember the last directory you accessed) | Nov 02 01:11 |
| shreddar | gedit has this problem aswell. | Nov 02 01:12 |
| oiaohm | winecfg under tab desktop intergration DaemonFC | Nov 02 01:12 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft redirects requests for My Documents to C:\Users\Ryan\My Documents now | Nov 02 01:12 |
| shreddar | I think they are using what ever the shell says is the current or directory. | Nov 02 01:13 |
| oiaohm | Wine defaults are still genneric for Linux BSD and Mac DaemonFC | Nov 02 01:13 |
| cubezzz | DaemonFC, why don't you try Fedora or Debian? | Nov 02 01:13 |
| DaemonFC | under 2000 and XP it's C:\Documents and Settings\Ryan\My Documents I think | Nov 02 01:13 |
| cubezzz | lots of choices if you don't like Ubuntu | Nov 02 01:13 |
| DaemonFC | I don't really use XP a lot anymore, R.I.P. | Nov 02 01:13 |
| oiaohm | I find KDE apps better on remember last access directory than gnome ones DaemonFC | Nov 02 01:14 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 7 is typical Microsoft attempt to make things easier, resulting in making things a lot more complicated | Nov 02 01:14 |
| cubezzz | not unless the customer pays major $$$ :) | Nov 02 01:14 |
| DaemonFC | the Libraries "feature" introduces all kinds of hillarity | Nov 02 01:14 |
| DaemonFC | Cause just because some music or pictures or videos or documents are in a Library doesn't tell you where they REALLY ARE | Nov 02 01:15 |
| oiaohm | Question if flash disappears and is mostly replaced by html standards I guess would also count as Flash working right DaemonFC? | Nov 02 01:15 |
| DaemonFC | and if you try to save anything to a Library, Windows tells you to save it to a real folder | Nov 02 01:15 |
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| DaemonFC | it's so aggravating | Nov 02 01:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft to Developers/Self: Forget About #Vista7 , Let’s Spread #Vista8 #Vapourware ? http://ping.fm/Hv0ER | Nov 02 01:16 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft to Developers/Self: Forget About Vista 7, Lets Spread Vista 8 Vapourware? | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 95.48 KB | Nov 02 01:16 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, I'd take an improved Flash, or improved web standards, whichever works and works first | Nov 02 01:16 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Nov 02 01:16 |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to shreddar | Nov 02 01:16 | |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Nov 02 01:16 | |
| DaemonFC | I don't really care what you call it or who it comes from, if it does what I need | Nov 02 01:16 |
| cubezzz | you know I didn't really like SCO Xenix, then I didn't really care for Unix System V but you know what? | Nov 02 01:17 |
| cubezzz | eventually I learned Unix | Nov 02 01:17 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, I still have a Xenix 5.25" floppy somewhere | Nov 02 01:17 |
| DaemonFC | and several really old PCs | Nov 02 01:17 |
| DaemonFC | they all work | Nov 02 01:17 |
| cubezzz | the point is, some of this stuff takes some time to learn | Nov 02 01:17 |
| cubezzz | I'm still learning about Embedix which is different again | Nov 02 01:18 |
| DaemonFC | I've got a Commodore 64, a Commodore AMIGA, a Canon Innova i386 laptop, and a Packard Bell 486DX 100 | Nov 02 01:18 |
| cubezzz | which Amiga? | Nov 02 01:18 |
| DaemonFC | I also have a Packard Bell system with a Pentium 200 | Nov 02 01:18 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: why do you need mic and web cam with flash? | Nov 02 01:19 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, the 3000 | Nov 02 01:19 |
| cubezzz | ah, nice machine to have | Nov 02 01:19 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, Cause nothing on Linux supports my webcam | Nov 02 01:19 |
| cubezzz | Amiga 4000 still goes for some bucks on ebay even today | Nov 02 01:19 |
| DaemonFC | I'd be happy if one IM program supporting a mainline protocol did | Nov 02 01:20 |
| DaemonFC | but Flash would be nice too | Nov 02 01:20 |
| cubezzz | sometimes under Linux -v means verbose | Nov 02 01:20 |
| cubezzz | sometimes -v means version, I live with it | Nov 02 01:20 |
| oiaohm | So not XMPP Voice and Video ? DaemonFC | Nov 02 01:21 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, Favorite system out of the old ones would have to be the Packard Bell with the Pentium 233 (it was a 233, dunno why I said 200) | Nov 02 01:21 |
| cubezzz | DaemonFC, I'm surprised you used Xenix, I would have thought that's before your time | Nov 02 01:21 |
| DaemonFC | It's still got my copy of Windows 95 OSR 2.1 on it | Nov 02 01:21 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC is an old man | Nov 02 01:21 |
| _Hicham_ | he is 60 years old | Nov 02 01:21 |
| *DaemonFC is 25 | Nov 02 01:21 | |
| cubezzz | ok, I want to forget that win95 existed, I really hated it | Nov 02 01:22 |
| oiaohm | I guess you want the closed spec protocals for IM DaemonFC? | Nov 02 01:22 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, I liked Windows 95 (The OEM revisions with FAT32 and USB, but before IE was "integrated") | Nov 02 01:22 |
| DaemonFC | hated Windows 98 | Nov 02 01:22 |
| DaemonFC | formatted over Windows 98 on my HP Pavilion K6/2 system with my old Windows 95 OEM disc | Nov 02 01:23 |
| DaemonFC | I pretty much held onto Windows 95 til XP and XP til 7 | Nov 02 01:24 |
| cubezzz | I'm pretty happy with computers now that I have GNU/Linux | Nov 02 01:24 |
| cubezzz | still miss Amiga though | Nov 02 01:24 |
| DaemonFC | I didn't really want to move to 7, but Microsoft is making XP an uncomfortable place to be | Nov 02 01:24 |
| DaemonFC | well, the x64 version anyway, which is what I've been using since it came out | Nov 02 01:24 |
| oiaohm | Most likely in 6 years time MS will most likely make 7 unconfortable as well. | Nov 02 01:25 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft shot themselves in the foot when they limited DirectX 10 to Vista | Nov 02 01:25 |
| oiaohm | What you call a never ending cycle. | Nov 02 01:25 |
| cubezzz | no, it ended for me :) | Nov 02 01:25 |
| DaemonFC | it didn't encourage Vista upgrades, it just helped speed the demise of PC gaming | Nov 02 01:25 |
| cubezzz | in 2003 | Nov 02 01:25 |
| cubezzz | should have done it earlier than | Nov 02 01:26 |
| oiaohm | MS has to punsh anyone for not upgrading from XP to Vista because they promissed to. | Nov 02 01:26 |
| cubezzz | that | Nov 02 01:26 |
| DaemonFC | I got ahold of Windows 2000 as well | Nov 02 01:26 |
| DaemonFC | that wasn't terrible | Nov 02 01:26 |
| DaemonFC | needed it for my dual socket system | Nov 02 01:26 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, I was thinking about making a video as a mockery of the Windows 7 ads | Nov 02 01:27 |
| cubezzz | I wish I could say I switched to Linux in 1994 | Nov 02 01:27 |
| cubezzz | but it took another 9 years :-/ | Nov 02 01:28 |
| oiaohm | I can mostly because I started coding and could not afford compliers. | Nov 02 01:28 |
| oiaohm | And djgpp on dos was hell. | Nov 02 01:28 |
| DaemonFC | something along the line of "Microsoft made Windows 7 just for me. The Media Center demanding to DRM restrict your cable TV? Yep, that was my idea. Called Microsoft right on up and asked for it." | Nov 02 01:28 |
| cubezzz | just give Microsoft the boot.... permanently | Nov 02 01:29 |
| oiaohm | For many years I was duel booting. | Nov 02 01:29 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, Xenix turned up at a flea market | Nov 02 01:29 |
| oiaohm | Recent years I have gone pure Linux. | Nov 02 01:29 |
| DaemonFC | I think I paid like 50 cents for the disk | Nov 02 01:29 |
| cubezzz | or if you have several computers run all Linux except one, that's doable | Nov 02 01:29 |
| oiaohm | I system maticaly did away with hardware that was not Linux compadible. | Nov 02 01:30 |
| cubezzz | I still have my Xenix notes :-P | Nov 02 01:30 |
| DaemonFC | that guy got all kinds of things | Nov 02 01:30 |
| DaemonFC | I got Microsoft Flight Simulator 98 for $2 | Nov 02 01:30 |
| DaemonFC | in 1999 | Nov 02 01:30 |
| DaemonFC | so there were some deals there | Nov 02 01:30 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, It's sacrificing a lot of hardware and a lot of software too | Nov 02 01:32 |
| cubezzz | Linux runs on a lot of stuff windows doesn't | Nov 02 01:33 |
| cubezzz | my ISP runs BSD actually | Nov 02 01:33 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, overall architectures | Nov 02 01:33 |
| DaemonFC | the add on cards tend to be your problem | Nov 02 01:33 |
| oiaohm | Not really DaemonFC | Nov 02 01:33 |
| oiaohm | I have found something over the years. Most of the Linux supported hardware is the stuff that lasts really well. | Nov 02 01:34 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, What about the Avermedia M780, tons of people have them | Nov 02 01:34 |
| DaemonFC | it'll probably never work | Nov 02 01:34 |
| cubezzz | you have to be smart in your purchased | Nov 02 01:36 |
| cubezzz | always check before you buy | Nov 02 01:36 |
| cubezzz | purchases | Nov 02 01:36 |
| oiaohm | Only a very small percentage of items are like that DaemonFC | Nov 02 01:36 |
| oiaohm | The saving over time buying like printers that last and other items that last. | Nov 02 01:36 |
| oiaohm | Most of the other bits don't really cost even when you have to replace them. | Nov 02 01:37 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, show me a mainline, affordable, dual NTSC/ATSC TV tuner (PCI-E or USB) that Linux fully supports | Nov 02 01:37 |
| DaemonFC | cause I'll be damned if I've seen any that are | Nov 02 01:37 |
| cubezzz | pchdtv??? | Nov 02 01:37 |
| DaemonFC | and if they are, they need binary driver or firmware | Nov 02 01:38 |
| cubezzz | http://www.pchdtv.com/ | Nov 02 01:38 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: pcHDTV .::. Size~: 0.61 KB | Nov 02 01:38 |
| DaemonFC | Linux and Linux distributions mutate too much to make relying on binary drivers a good long term plan | Nov 02 01:38 |
| cubezzz | you can get NTSC still? | Nov 02 01:39 |
| cubezzz | I can, but I'm in Canada | Nov 02 01:39 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, All that is available here | Nov 02 01:39 |
| DaemonFC | Comcast keeps saying that HD channels are coming | Nov 02 01:39 |
| cubezzz | oh Cable right | Nov 02 01:40 |
| DaemonFC | they're a bunch of scumbags | Nov 02 01:40 |
| cubezzz | I keep thinking Antenna | Nov 02 01:40 |
| DaemonFC | liars | Nov 02 01:40 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, I don't have any PCI slots | Nov 02 01:40 |
| DaemonFC | I need PCI-E x1 or USB | Nov 02 01:40 |
| oiaohm | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1008381/pci-express-pci-converters Grab this puppy DaemonFC | Nov 02 01:42 |
| oiaohm | Or releated | Nov 02 01:42 |
| oiaohm | you can feed a old style PCI daughter boards off them. | Nov 02 01:44 |
| shreddar | OK I think the problem has something to do with XDG | Nov 02 01:46 |
| cubezzz | http://www.linuxtv.org | Nov 02 01:47 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: LinuxTV.org - Television with Linux .::. Size~: 6.39 KB | Nov 02 01:47 |
| shreddar | if I rename remove or rename the Documents folder the error is gone. | Nov 02 01:47 |
| shreddar | or if I remove the refference in user-dirs.dirs the error is gone. | Nov 02 01:48 |
| shreddar | If I change XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR="$HOME/Documents" | Nov 02 01:48 |
| shreddar | to | Nov 02 01:49 |
| shreddar | If I change XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR="$HOME/blabla" | Nov 02 01:49 |
| shreddar | the error is gone | Nov 02 01:49 |
| shreddar | or if I just remove the actual folder the error is gone. | Nov 02 01:49 |
| shreddar | I don't really know why this is. | Nov 02 01:50 |
| shreddar | It must be some kind of feature that's badly implemented or something. | Nov 02 01:50 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Nov 02 01:51 | |
| shreddar | Has anyone here besides me had the default open/save directory problem. | Nov 02 01:51 |
| cubezzz | DaemonFC, read this: | Nov 02 01:54 |
| cubezzz | http://www.linuxhelp.net/guides/tvtuner/ | Nov 02 01:54 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Linux Help - Corey's TvTuner Guide .::. Size~: 16.49 KB | Nov 02 01:54 |
| cubezzz | he seems to say USB TV tuners aren't very good | Nov 02 01:55 |
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| shreddar_ | sorry my desktop crashed | Nov 02 01:56 |
| cubezzz | shreddar_, what are you using? | Nov 02 01:56 |
| shreddar_ | KDE | Nov 02 01:56 |
| cubezzz | I use old KDE mostly | Nov 02 01:57 |
| cubezzz | for new stuff I use Gnome | Nov 02 01:57 |
| cubezzz | don't really like new KDE | Nov 02 01:58 |
| shreddar_ | Anyways can anyone show me their ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs ? | Nov 02 01:58 |
| shreddar_ | I want to compare to see if mine is missing anything. | Nov 02 01:58 |
| shreddar_ | mine says XDG_DESKTOP_DIR="$HOME/Desktop" XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR="$HOME/Desktop" XDG_TEMPLATES_DIR="$HOME/Templates" XDG_PUBLICSHARE_DIR="$HOME/Public" XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR="$HOME/Documents" XDG_MUSIC_DIR="$HOME/Music" XDG_PICTURES_DIR="$HOME/Pictures" XDG_VIDEOS_DIR="$HOME/Videos" | Nov 02 01:59 |
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| cubezzz | http://pastebin.com/m5aa0bed6 | Nov 02 02:00 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: pastebin - collaborative debugging tool .::. Size~: 12.8 KB | Nov 02 02:00 |
| shreddar_ | cubezzz if you open a file in gedit is /Documents the default location? | Nov 02 02:01 |
| shreddar_ | ~/Documents | Nov 02 02:02 |
| cubezzz | I don't have anything in ~/Documents | Nov 02 02:03 |
| cubezzz | you mean from bash or...? | Nov 02 02:04 |
| shreddar_ | But does your gedit automatically default to ~/Documents in the dialog for when saving/opening files? | Nov 02 02:04 |
| cubezzz | no | Nov 02 02:06 |
| cubezzz | it defaults to /home/whatever | Nov 02 02:06 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/21st-century-aging/200911/whats-scary-about-the-h1n1-vaccine | Nov 02 02:08 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: What's Scary About the H1N1 Vaccine? | Psychology Today .::. Size~: 54.87 KB | Nov 02 02:08 |
| DaemonFC | "So why is it that older people would be more trusting of vaccines? | Nov 02 02:08 |
| DaemonFC | One reason is that people over the age of 65 remember a time when there were no vaccines. Polio, measles, whooping cough, and mumps were all diseases that caused grave illness before there were vaccinations. The polio and whooping cough vaccines were developed in the 1950s, the measles vaccine in 1968. Older generations remember these illnesses and a time when infectious diseases were not only more prevalent, but more deadly." | Nov 02 02:08 |
| cubezzz | shreddar_, I use my own system of directory names | Nov 02 02:09 |
| cubezzz | e.g. /usr/local/text | Nov 02 02:09 |
| cubezzz | that sort of thing | Nov 02 02:09 |
| shreddar_ | So you do actually have a /home/Documents folder? | Nov 02 02:09 |
| shreddar_ | don't | Nov 02 02:10 |
| cubezzz | pwd | Nov 02 02:10 |
| cubezzz | oops | Nov 02 02:10 |
| cubezzz | I have /home/cubeman/Documents | Nov 02 02:10 |
| shreddar_ | okay same here | Nov 02 02:10 |
| shreddar_ | except the name of course | Nov 02 02:10 |
| cubezzz | I try to use Unix style directory names | Nov 02 02:11 |
| shreddar_ | I still haven't figured out why my computer has the problem where open/save dialogs and such will default to ~/Documents | Nov 02 02:13 |
| cubezzz | well in Fedora/Gnome we have File Management Preferences | Nov 02 02:14 |
| shreddar_ | What the name of the program? | Nov 02 02:18 |
| cubezzz | nautilus-file-management-properties | Nov 02 02:19 |
| shreddar_ | Yeah, there no setting in there for the default location | Nov 02 02:21 |
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| DaemonFC | the next Ubuntu is an LTS | Nov 02 02:28 |
| DaemonFC | if I'm going to get rid of Windows 7, it'll be in April | Nov 02 02:28 |
| _Hicham_ | huh, DaemonFC and Ubuntu | Nov 02 02:28 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think that I want to mess around with the 6 month releases anymore | Nov 02 02:28 |
| DaemonFC | the upgrades are kind of hit or miss, they really are | Nov 02 02:29 |
| _Hicham_ | shreddar_ : u can set it in xdg-dirs | Nov 02 02:30 |
| DaemonFC | I mean, people laugh when a Mac or Windows upgrade goes awry, but Ubuntu has had the same kind of problems several times | Nov 02 02:31 |
| shreddar_ | where exactly is xdg-dirs? | Nov 02 02:31 |
| cubezzz | shreddar_, I would just write a short bash script like gedit.sh | Nov 02 02:32 |
| cubezzz | e.g. gedit $HOME/documents/$1 | Nov 02 02:33 |
| cubezzz | actually I don't use gedit very much | Nov 02 02:34 |
| _Hicham_ | shreddar : ~/.config/user-dirs.dir | Nov 02 02:36 |
| cubezzz | CMS had a really nice editor on IBM 4381 | Nov 02 02:36 |
| _Hicham_ | shreddar : ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs | Nov 02 02:36 |
| _Hicham_ | shreddar_ : do u have this file ? | Nov 02 02:36 |
| cubezzz | yeah he does | Nov 02 02:36 |
| shreddar_ | yes | Nov 02 02:36 |
| _Hicham_ | then modify it to suit ur needs | Nov 02 02:37 |
| _Hicham_ | and run xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update | Nov 02 02:37 |
| _Hicham_ | or xdg-user-dirs-update | Nov 02 02:38 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : Debian doesn't have those type of problems | Nov 02 02:39 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, Debian is also, weird | Nov 02 02:40 |
| _Hicham_ | weird ? | Nov 02 02:40 |
| shreddar_ | Ubuntu is Debian | Nov 02 02:40 |
| DaemonFC | shreddar_, Well, a steak and a hamburger are both meat from a cow | Nov 02 02:41 |
| shreddar_ | The only way to fix the XDG problem is to screw with the XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR="$HOME/Document" part | Nov 02 02:42 |
| _Hicham_ | shreddar_ : ur problem is resolved ? | Nov 02 02:42 |
| DaemonFC | shreddar_, In that analogy, I'd call Debian an undercooked steak | Nov 02 02:42 |
| shreddar_ | it works if I change it to XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR="$HOME/blabla" or something | Nov 02 02:42 |
| DaemonFC | it's still mooing at me | Nov 02 02:42 |
| cubezzz | DaemonFC, what do you call NFS then? :) | Nov 02 02:43 |
| shreddar_ | but I don't think that's how it's supposed to work. | Nov 02 02:43 |
| cubezzz | oops, LFS I mean | Nov 02 02:43 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : Ubuntu isn't following Debien Policy | Nov 02 02:43 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, Either way.... | Nov 02 02:43 |
| DaemonFC | 7th circle of hell | Nov 02 02:43 |
| cubezzz | ok, let me try it on Fedora... | Nov 02 02:43 |
| _Hicham_ | cubezzz : what version of Fedora are u using ? | Nov 02 02:45 |
| cubezzz | 11 | Nov 02 02:45 |
| cubezzz | ok, I don't see how to get gedit to default to ~/Documents | Nov 02 02:45 |
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| cubezzz | I dont think their is an easy way | Nov 02 02:46 |
| _Hicham_ | cubezzz : same method | Nov 02 02:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | Roy Schestowitz (3 hours ago from Ping.fm) | Nov 02 02:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | #Citigroup and #Tesco : #Banking Yes, #GNU #Linux No http://ping.fm/uDmHS | Nov 02 02:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | uh roy | Nov 02 02:46 |
| _Hicham_ | ~/.config/user-dirs.dirs | Nov 02 02:46 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Citigroup and Tesco: Banking Yes, GNU/Linux No | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 91.57 KB | Nov 02 02:46 |
| shreddar_ | heres what my file looks like: XDG_DESKTOP_DIR="$HOME/Desktop" XDG_DOWNLOAD_DIR="$HOME/Desktop" XDG_TEMPLATES_DIR="$HOME/Templates" XDG_PUBLICSHARE_DIR="$HOME/Public" XDG_DOCUMENTS_DIR="$HOME/Document" XDG_MUSIC_DIR="$HOME/Music" XDG_PICTURES_DIR="$HOME/Picture" XDG_VIDEOS_DIR="$HOME/Videos" | Nov 02 02:47 |
| cubezzz | _Hicham_, XDG_DOCUMENTS is already $HOME/Documents | Nov 02 02:47 |
| cubezzz | but it defaults to $HOME | Nov 02 02:47 |
| cubezzz | for gedit | Nov 02 02:47 |
| _Hicham_ | try running xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update | Nov 02 02:48 |
| shreddar_ | this seems to be a deeper problem maybe with my shell | Nov 02 02:50 |
| cubezzz | it's a gedit thing | Nov 02 02:50 |
| shreddar_ | when ever I run gedit or gimp from xterm or what ever this isn't a problem | Nov 02 02:50 |
| cubezzz | I can't do want you are asking either, not without a bash script | Nov 02 02:50 |
| shreddar_ | If I run them from Kmenu however it is. | Nov 02 02:51 |
| shreddar_ | Anyone know what would make Kmenu do this? | Nov 02 02:52 |
| shreddar_ | If do Kmenu - Wine - "Browse C:Drive" it tries to open it in ~/Documents/.wine/dosdevices/c: instead of ~/.wine/dosdevices/c: | Nov 02 02:55 |
| shreddar_ | It seems that whatever shell Kmenu is using is defaulting to Documents for some reason. | Nov 02 02:56 |
| cubezzz | https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504067 | Nov 02 02:59 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Bug 504067 – gedit doesn't use xdg dirs for saving content .::. Size~: 29.07 KB | Nov 02 02:59 |
| _Hicham_ | I think that the answer in the bugzilla was straightforward | Nov 02 03:05 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Windows/Microsoft-Sees-StrongerThanExpected-Earnings-Believes-in-Tech-Refresh-289131/ | Nov 02 03:06 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Sees Stronger Earnings than Expected, Believes in Tech Refresh .::. Size~: 107.02 KB | Nov 02 03:06 |
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| shreddar | Kmenu seems to be using XDG to run apps from the ~/Documents folder somehow. | Nov 02 03:07 |
| _Hicham_ | gedit doesn't read xdg dirs | Nov 02 03:08 |
| shreddar | but Kmenu does apparently | Nov 02 03:08 |
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| shreddar | If I run those programs from a virtual terminal it's no problem | Nov 02 03:09 |
| shreddar | but running them from Kmenu makes them run from the ~/Documents folder | Nov 02 03:09 |
| _Hicham_ | are u using gedit in kde ? | Nov 02 03:10 |
| shreddar | I was just using it as a test to see why my other programs were behaving this way. | Nov 02 03:11 |
| _Hicham_ | gedit doesn't use xdg dirs | Nov 02 03:12 |
| _Hicham_ | u can patch it if u are up to it | Nov 02 03:12 |
| _Hicham_ | and u can link it to libxdg-basedir | Nov 02 03:13 |
| _Hicham_ | doesn't sound that bad | Nov 02 03:13 |
| shreddar | Ok but gedit if it is being run from the ~/Documents directory will by default try to open from or save to it. | Nov 02 03:13 |
| shreddar | That's what Kmenu is doing. | Nov 02 03:14 |
| shreddar | It's running apps from the ~/Documents directory. | Nov 02 03:14 |
| _Hicham_ | usually applications are launched whithin the home directory | Nov 02 03:14 |
| _Hicham_ | that is why gedit defaults to it | Nov 02 03:15 |
| _Hicham_ | but it is really easy to find the Documents folder with nautilus bookmarks | Nov 02 03:16 |
| shreddar | I found out that Kmenu is doing this. Now I just have to figure out why. | Nov 02 03:16 |
| _Hicham_ | do u use nautilus bookmarks ? | Nov 02 03:16 |
| shreddar | This behavior in Kmenu seems to depend on XDG in some way. | Nov 02 03:17 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't know, and it is not of a big deal for me | Nov 02 03:18 |
| shreddar | I do have nautilus bookmarks | Nov 02 03:18 |
| _Hicham_ | u can see them if the filechooser dialog | Nov 02 03:19 |
| _Hicham_ | then what is the problem? | Nov 02 03:19 |
| shreddar | I'm not trying to make programs default to ~/Documents. I'm trying to stop them from defaulting to ~/Documents. I know Kmenu is a key factor in this. | Nov 02 03:20 |
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| shreddar | OK it's not just Kmenu, opening files on KDE's desktop has the same behavior. | Nov 02 03:33 |
| _Hicham_ | kill bill | Nov 02 03:36 |
| shreddar | using the run command box does it as well | Nov 02 03:37 |
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| DaemonFC | http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/mrtickles959/hitler_xbox.jpg | Nov 02 03:38 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 02 03:38 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Nov 02 03:38 |
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| shreddar | it seems to be KDE as a whole that's doing this. | Nov 02 03:46 |
| *shreddar has to go to sleep | Nov 02 03:49 | |
| shreddar | see ya | Nov 02 03:49 |
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| _Hicham_ | exit | Nov 02 04:28 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] RT @GeoffLiving: A-Rod wanted this. Now the villain spanked the Philies, #damnyankees! | Nov 02 04:45 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Batman done right #nsfw http://ur1.ca/ey49 | Nov 02 05:25 | |
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| oiaohm | http://apple.slashdot.org/story/09/11/01/195232/Apple-Says-Booting-OS-X-Makes-an-Unauthorized-Copy Now this could be a bug bare if Apple wins this idea. | Nov 02 08:14 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Slashdot Apple Story | Apple Says Booting OS X Makes an Unauthorized Copy .::. Size~: 175.85 KB | Nov 02 08:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft’s Retail Efforts http://ping.fm/jsSXQ | Nov 02 08:24 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Readers Post: Microsofts Retail Efforts | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 94.92 KB | Nov 02 08:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell Told Off by Former Employee, the Public http://ping.fm/O8l51 | Nov 02 08:42 | |
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| Diablo-D3 | dohohoho | Nov 02 08:44 |
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| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Linux indirect function calls play havoc with branch prediction on some CPUs. #Linus says "get an x86 and quit whining," http://ur1.ca/eyda | Nov 02 09:10 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Breaks the Law by Not Patching #Windows as Per the Agreement http://ping.fm/cpnNR | Nov 02 09:42 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Breaks the Law by Not Patching Windows as Per the Agreement | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 94 KB | Nov 02 09:42 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 Roundup: #Microsoft Admits Upgrade Errors, People Wait for SP1, Compatibility Issues Identified http://ping.fm/AOsWK | Nov 02 10:16 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Vista 7 Roundup: Microsoft Admits Upgrade Errors, People Wait for SP1, Compatibility Issues Identified | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 100.15 KB | Nov 02 10:16 |
| fewa | schestowitz, breaks contract | Nov 02 10:32 |
| fewa | and false advertising | Nov 02 10:32 |
| schestowitz | What does (breaks contract)? | Nov 02 10:33 |
| fewa | <phIRCe-local> Title: Microsoft Breaks the Law by Not Patching Windows as Per the Agreement | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 94 KB | Nov 02 10:36 |
| oiaohm | Its only an agreement not a formal contract fewa | Nov 02 10:36 |
| fewa | "the law" is just really vague | Nov 02 10:36 |
| fewa | ok, then false advertising | Nov 02 10:36 |
| oiaohm | For false advertising you would have to prove that they never intendend to supply fewa at time of advertising. | Nov 02 10:37 |
| fewa | ok, agreement==contract | Nov 02 10:37 |
| fewa | if you promise something, and then people take action based on that promise, and then you fail to deliver | Nov 02 10:38 |
| oiaohm | Two parties can have a non binding contract ie what is just classed as an agreement. There is no punishment class. | Nov 02 10:38 |
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| oiaohm | Basically if someone is offering you support for 10 years you really should get it in a binding contract. | Nov 02 10:39 |
| oiaohm | But people have been lazy with MS. | Nov 02 10:39 |
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| archaos | hi there .. support contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on ... | Nov 02 10:40 |
| fewa | yeah | Nov 02 10:41 |
| archaos | most business don't last more than 5 years .. | Nov 02 10:41 |
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| archaos | And what kind of 'support', phone a helpdesk in India and get told reinstall, reinstall, reinstall ... | Nov 02 10:42 |
| fewa | thats why you use free software | Nov 02 10:43 |
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| archaos | anyone tried out the new Ubuntu ? | Nov 02 10:45 |
| fewa | ive been running it for a month | Nov 02 10:45 |
| fewa | meh 2 weeks | Nov 02 10:46 |
| archaos | does the bootable USB creator work ? | Nov 02 10:46 |
| fewa | let me reboot my netbook and see | Nov 02 10:46 |
| archaos | ? | Nov 02 10:47 |
| fewa | yes ive used it | Nov 02 10:47 |
| fewa | but not booted from it yet | Nov 02 10:47 |
| archaos | I'm on 9>04 | Nov 02 10:48 |
| archaos | It beats luging a laptop around ... | Nov 02 10:48 |
| oiaohm | archaos: When you pay for a Linux distribution you do get a binding contract for at least 90 days support. | Nov 02 10:48 |
| oiaohm | That is proper support. Access to developers and all. | Nov 02 10:49 |
| archaos | "Bill Gates was a geek coder" | Nov 02 10:51 |
| archaos | http://programmersatwork.wordpress.com/bill-gates-1986/ | Nov 02 10:51 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Bill Gates1986 « Programmers At Work .::. Size~: 77 KB | Nov 02 10:51 |
| archaos | "The finest pieces of software are those where one individual has a complete sense of exactly how the program works" | Nov 02 10:53 |
| archaos | obviiously not Microsoft :) | Nov 02 10:53 |
| oiaohm | Notice not one I about any feature in basic archaos | Nov 02 10:54 |
| archaos | ? what feature ? | Nov 02 10:54 |
| oiaohm | That is really strange for a developer of anything not to say I did X at some point. | Nov 02 10:54 |
| archaos | ahh so | Nov 02 10:55 |
| archaos | "I wrote a BASIC interpreter for a minicomputer in high school. I made massive mistakes in that program, and then I got to look at some other BASIC interpreters" | Nov 02 10:55 |
| archaos | well appariently, he innovated from other interpreters ... | Nov 02 10:55 |
| oiaohm | Yet when he talks about any feature of the BASIC interpreter it is always we. | Nov 02 10:56 |
| oiaohm | Yet when pall talked about it there were at lot of I did this. | Nov 02 10:56 |
| archaos | “Oh, yeah, putting subroutines in and getting rid of line numbers is easy.” | Nov 02 10:57 |
| archaos | Who really was the first to 'get rid of line numbers' ? | Nov 02 10:57 |
| archaos | Vax Basic ? | Nov 02 10:58 |
| tenderfoot | yea, stallman did exactly the same with GCC | Nov 02 10:58 |
| oiaohm | stallman does claim particular parts of gcc design. Ok they are some of the most hated parts of gcc design but still. | Nov 02 10:59 |
| archaos | INTERVIEWER: What was the most innovative aspect of BASIC? | Nov 02 11:00 |
| oiaohm | There were many langages before basic that did not need line numbers. archaos So why is removing line number anything special. | Nov 02 11:00 |
| archaos | "PEEK and POKE .. TRON and TROFE" | Nov 02 11:00 |
| archaos | ??? :O | Nov 02 11:00 |
| tenderfoot | basic in many forms was around far before Microsoft, | Nov 02 11:00 |
| archaos | "To fit BASIC into 4K, we used a scheme called a single-representation interpreter" | Nov 02 11:01 |
| archaos | 'single-representation interpreter', never heard of it ... | Nov 02 11:01 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Microsoft and Philips don't know what a Turing machine is: http://i5.be/QV | Nov 02 11:02 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Groklaw - Correcting Microsoft's Bilski Amicus Brief -- How Do Computers Really Work? - Updated .::. Size~: 178.14 KB | Nov 02 11:02 |
| archaos | re: line numbering, BBC BASIC used proc statements ... | Nov 02 11:02 |
| tenderfoot | Turing machine, cannot exist in realaty.. it's a theoretical concept | Nov 02 11:03 |
| cubezzz | I think even some "structured" basic's used line numbers | Nov 02 11:04 |
| cubezzz | the earliest ones | Nov 02 11:04 |
| cubezzz | AmigaBasic is the earlist BASIC I can remember without line numbers | Nov 02 11:05 |
| oiaohm | http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://mapageweb.umontreal.ca/cousined/lego/5-Machines/Turing/Images/turing_top.jpg&imgrefurl=http://caffeinepete.blogspot.com/2005/07/lego-turing-machine.html&h=960&w=1280&sz=151&tbnid=e-VY7o6ayQhlmM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTuring%2Bmachine&usg=__DNpcCdtaqRJw7rsv3WoPaVO0Vdg=&ei=F7zuSufhL4zm6wPV8ojkCw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=5&ct=image&ved=0CBYQ9QEwBA << Fell like gettign bussy with lego | Nov 02 11:06 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Google Image Result for http://mapageweb.umontreal.ca/cousined/lego/5-Machines/Turing/Images/turing_top.jpg .::. Size~: 2.94 KB | Nov 02 11:06 |
| oiaohm | and building a turing machien tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | did someone say lego? | Nov 02 11:06 |
| archaos | SO, billg didn't invent removing-the-line-numbeers, which is implied from the article ... | Nov 02 11:06 |
| oiaohm | http://caffeinepete.blogspot.com/2005/07/lego-turing-machine.html | Nov 02 11:06 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Tech Drool: Lego: Turing Machine .::. Size~: 17.12 KB | Nov 02 11:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | oooooooooooohhhhh | Nov 02 11:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | nice | Nov 02 11:06 |
| tenderfoot | turning maching or ANYTHING with the word "infinate" is a theoretical ONLY device. | Nov 02 11:07 |
| oiaohm | The base document of a turning machine does not say infinate | Nov 02 11:07 |
| oiaohm | That was a latter theory expand on the idea tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | infinite? | Nov 02 11:07 |
| archaos | oiaohm said: 'why is removing line number anything special.' | Nov 02 11:07 |
| tenderfoot | stilll does not change what it is. | Nov 02 11:07 |
| oiaohm | You can build a turning machine no problems. | Nov 02 11:08 |
| archaos | Well, it makes fro a better structure in the prog .. no more .. IF a < b THEN GOSUB 9000000000 | Nov 02 11:08 |
| oiaohm | turing machien. | Nov 02 11:08 |
| oiaohm | archaos: why did basic have them in the first place archaos. It was old tech when MS basic was doing it. | Nov 02 11:09 |
| schestowitz | tenderfoot is mutex again | Nov 02 11:09 |
| schestowitz |  | Nov 02 11:09 |
| archaos | each statement was stored on a card ? | Nov 02 11:09 |
| schestowitz | [10:51] <archaos> "Bill Gates was a geek coder" | Nov 02 11:09 |
| schestowitz | He's not a coder | Nov 02 11:09 |
| schestowitz | When he tried coding, his colleagued ridiculed his code | Nov 02 11:09 |
| schestowitz | It's well documented somwhere | Nov 02 11:09 |
| tenderfoot | "an infinite memory capacity obtained in the form of an infinite tape marked out into squares on each of which a symbol could be printed. At any moment there is one symbol in the machine; " | Nov 02 11:10 |
| oiaohm | That is extention on a turing machine tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:10 |
| cubezzz | wasn't Paul Allen more of a coder? | Nov 02 11:10 |
| oiaohm | Paul Allen passed the course as a coder | Nov 02 11:10 |
| oiaohm | You could always build a never ending tape. But storage would become a problem tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:11 |
| oiaohm | Ie storage of the tape. | Nov 02 11:11 |
| tenderfoot | endless is not infinate, as you know. | Nov 02 11:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | actually, you "can" | Nov 02 11:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | INFINITE DAMNIT | Nov 02 11:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | ITS SPELLED INFINITE | Nov 02 11:12 |
| Diablo-D3 | if you're going to fucking use english, fucking use it right | Nov 02 11:12 |
| oiaohm | Endless is the same as infinite if you never find the end how do you prove its not infinate. | Nov 02 11:13 |
| tenderfoot | a loop is endless but not infinite (hoppy Diably) ?? | Nov 02 11:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | ........ | Nov 02 11:13 |
| archaos | er .. use a mobius strip and let it curl back on itself ... | Nov 02 11:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | archaos: yes, but a mobius strip can still be measured | Nov 02 11:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not infinite | Nov 02 11:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | you can walk around and get to the spot you started at | Nov 02 11:13 |
| fewa | not infinite | Nov 02 11:13 |
| fewa | just endless | Nov 02 11:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | and yes, you can have infinite tape | Nov 02 11:14 |
| fewa | there is a difference | Nov 02 11:14 |
| oiaohm | The hardware of a turing machine can be built and operated tenderfoot the storage media to make it work in theory mode is a problem. | Nov 02 11:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | just produce more tape faster than you can read it | Nov 02 11:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | or use non-linear magnetic mediums | Nov 02 11:14 |
| tenderfoot | you simply cannot have infinite ANYTHING.. | Nov 02 11:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | a hard drive really isnt that different than a tape. | Nov 02 11:14 |
| oiaohm | Very hard to say tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | its just concentric rings doing quite the same thing | Nov 02 11:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | tenderfoot: my hate for this conversation is infinite. | Nov 02 11:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | does that do it for you? | Nov 02 11:15 |
| cubezzz | ;-) | Nov 02 11:15 |
| tenderfoot | sure, infinity exists only in the mind. thanks for that | Nov 02 11:15 |
| oiaohm | infinite Humans most likely will never live long enough to prove if or if not infinity exists. | Nov 02 11:15 |
| cubezzz | how many stars can Hubble see? | Nov 02 11:16 |
| oiaohm | To be correct proving you have found infinity is basically impossiable unless you are like god. | Nov 02 11:16 |
| oiaohm | It is foolish to claim something cannot exist when you cannot prove either way. | Nov 02 11:17 |
| tenderfoot | no by definition it's impossible.. because you can always (+1) | Nov 02 11:17 |
| oiaohm | No true infinity you cannot +1 | Nov 02 11:17 |
| cubezzz | the set of integers is infinite | Nov 02 11:17 |
| tenderfoot | ok whatever.. | Nov 02 11:17 |
| oiaohm | Because you cannot find the point of infinity. | Nov 02 11:17 |
| tenderfoot | well done | Nov 02 11:17 |
| oiaohm | To move +1 from. | Nov 02 11:17 |
| oiaohm | But it does not mean it does not exist. Just you cannot prove either way. | Nov 02 11:18 |
| oiaohm | The infinity questions is almost as bad as does god exists questions. | Nov 02 11:18 |
| tenderfoot | do you know what "infinity" actually IS ?? if you did you would not be arguing it's existance.. but thats not my problem | Nov 02 11:19 |
| oiaohm | Problem here is there is more than 1 meaning of it. tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:19 |
| cubezzz | The word comes from the Latin infinitas or "unboundedness." | Nov 02 11:19 |
| tenderfoot | yes, the right meaning and your meaning, | Nov 02 11:20 |
| oiaohm | 1/0 is a classic. That is every point on a line. | Nov 02 11:20 |
| cubezzz | just say unbounded then | Nov 02 11:20 |
| archaos | "To infinity and beyond!", Buzz Lightyear ... | Nov 02 11:20 |
| oiaohm | That some maths people call infinity. | Nov 02 11:20 |
| oiaohm | Note a line with no end. | Nov 02 11:20 |
| oiaohm | Then some other theory maths use it as a point that is basically undeterminable. | Nov 02 11:21 |
| oiaohm | Context of infinity is important. | Nov 02 11:21 |
| archaos | what's infinity got to do with real computers, this reminds me of a buch of true believers arguing the existance of angels, and how many would fit on a chip :) | Nov 02 11:22 |
| oiaohm | Some chips do support NAN Ie not a number for 1/0 | Nov 02 11:22 |
| oiaohm | And will solve the maths out in the maths processor using it archaos | Nov 02 11:22 |
| oiaohm | There are others that will solve out algregra with the other one in it as well. | Nov 02 11:23 |
| tenderfoot | someone said you can build a turing maching, and you cant because it's a theoretical concept with infinate memory. which is physically impossible. | Nov 02 11:23 |
| cubezzz | well there should be a way to handle division by zero other than printing out NAN | Nov 02 11:23 |
| oiaohm | NAN is a number cubezzz | Nov 02 11:24 |
| oiaohm | To those systems. | Nov 02 11:24 |
| archaos | tenderfoot: but the point someone was making was that computers can handle abstract symbols rather than as the Groklaw quote said only ONs and OFFs .. yea ? | Nov 02 11:24 |
| oiaohm | tenderfoot: bad argument you can build a turing machine you can operate a turing machine you just decide to limit it under infinate. | Nov 02 11:24 |
| oiaohm | Because you cannot store or handle infinate. | Nov 02 11:25 |
| oiaohm | Limiting a machine under it max capiablity does not mean you have failed to build it. | Nov 02 11:25 |
| archaos | "Microsoft and Philips don't know what a Turing machine is" | Nov 02 11:25 |
| archaos | http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091029172602205 | Nov 02 11:25 |
| tenderfoot | then it's not a turing machine, by definition, but it's ok | Nov 02 11:25 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Groklaw - Correcting Microsoft's Bilski Amicus Brief -- How Do Computers Really Work? - Updated .::. Size~: 178.14 KB | Nov 02 11:25 |
| tenderfoot | some here dont know what it is either. | Nov 02 11:25 |
| archaos | tenderfoot: haaaaaaa | Nov 02 11:26 |
| oiaohm | tenderfoot: It is a turning machine by definition. | Nov 02 11:26 |
| oiaohm | Just you choose not to run it at max. | Nov 02 11:26 |
| oiaohm | Same as under clocking a processor. | Nov 02 11:26 |
| tenderfoot | not by turing's definition, which I tend to accept over yours | Nov 02 11:26 |
| archaos | question: can computers handle abstract symbols as well as ones and noughts ? | Nov 02 11:26 |
| oiaohm | Turing first define of a turing machine does not mention infinity of paper tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:27 |
| tenderfoot | look it up, please, | Nov 02 11:27 |
| oiaohm | You are refering to a latter though experment done. | Nov 02 11:27 |
| archaos | "every single one is, at its heart, a collection of tiny on-off switches .. The challenge for the inventor is how to use these transistors .. in a way that produces the desired functionality" | Nov 02 11:27 |
| tenderfoot | so you re-writing history to suit your argument, fair enough | Nov 02 11:28 |
| archaos | fuck infinity, lets talk about the Bilski case instead !!!! | Nov 02 11:28 |
| archaos | "Turing's construction of a universal machine gives the most fundamental insight into computation: one machine can run any program whatsoever" | Nov 02 11:29 |
| archaos | ok, is a 'turing machine' patentable ?? .. discuss !!!! | Nov 02 11:30 |
| tenderfoot | a modern digital computer cannot interpret abstract symbols, it cannot do anything without specific on-off state configuration information (called binary instructions), to configure the state of the machine to enable it to interpret or modify another binary state. | Nov 02 11:31 |
| archaos | since a 'turing machine' can simulate all other computers, that would mean what ? legally speaking ? | Nov 02 11:31 |
| tenderfoot | you cannot build a practical turing machine, or anything that requires an infinate amount of something. | Nov 02 11:31 |
| archaos | A standard PC is a turing machine ?, the software can simulate any other machine, even without an infinate amount of memory ? | Nov 02 11:32 |
| archaos | an approximate simulation .. | Nov 02 11:32 |
| archaos | like the floating point routines .. | Nov 02 11:32 |
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| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busy_beaver If you understood this tenderfoot you would understand to run a turning machine you don't need infinity. | Nov 02 11:33 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Busy beaver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 56.52 KB | Nov 02 11:33 |
| tenderfoot | then it's an approximate turing machine, but a real one, | Nov 02 11:33 |
| archaos | 1/3 = .66666 to infinity ... | Nov 02 11:33 |
| tenderfoot | sure change the rules you can do what you like | Nov 02 11:33 |
| oiaohm | Because turning machines have halt instructions tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:33 |
| archaos | but the machines only stores 12 decimal places .. | Nov 02 11:33 |
| oiaohm | So what is the point of the rest of the tape when you hit a halt tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:33 |
| archaos | gtg: but stay on topic would you. Let the philosophers discuss 'infinity' | Nov 02 11:34 |
| archaos | ""orrecting Microsoft's Bilski Amicus Brief -- How Do Computers Really Work? | Nov 02 11:34 |
| oiaohm | So since a turning machine has halt instructions you can limit tape so you can build and work a turning machine tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:34 |
| tenderfoot | oiaohm or Alan Turing ???? hmmm,, I expect that Alan might be the right one here not oiaohm., sorry | Nov 02 11:34 |
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| oiaohm | If you go read alan Turing book on it. | Nov 02 11:35 |
| oiaohm | You will find the halt instruction include. | Nov 02 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Book talking about unlimited tape but include means to operate it without unlimited. | Nov 02 11:36 |
| tenderfoot | I dont need too, I allready understand what it is, and i can read the definition of a Turing machine, and I understand what infinity means, why do you keep trying to argue against the facts ?? | Nov 02 11:36 |
| oiaohm | You are argueing something cannot be built. | Nov 02 11:36 |
| oiaohm | When it has been built many times tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Just never operated to its full theory limit. | Nov 02 11:37 |
| tenderfoot | ok sure whatever you say,, no point in arguing with you | Nov 02 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Its like you could say a cpu by design could run for ever. | Nov 02 11:37 |
| tenderfoot | what is the "theory limit" of infinity ????????? | Nov 02 11:37 |
| oiaohm | But do to the limitations of us and nature it will not. | Nov 02 11:37 |
| tenderfoot | dont bring "forever" into it.. geeez | Nov 02 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Its the same thing tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:38 |
| oiaohm | You could say a cpu could run for infinity and theory work on that. | Nov 02 11:38 |
| tenderfoot | thats right, both are purely theoretical, NOT practical... end of story | Nov 02 11:38 |
| oiaohm | No turing machine is part theoretical part blueprint. | Nov 02 11:39 |
| tenderfoot | You could say that oiaohm, but you would be wrong if you did | Nov 02 11:39 |
| oiaohm | CPU designs also done with infinity in mind. | Nov 02 11:39 |
| tenderfoot | what ?? um, no designs are done with infinity in mind... | Nov 02 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Every possiablity tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:40 |
| oiaohm | Ie 1/0 infinity | Nov 02 11:40 |
| tenderfoot | every possibility is not infinate, it finate. like "A finate state machine" | Nov 02 11:40 |
| tenderfoot | 1/0 is theoretical, do it in practice ?? | Nov 02 11:41 |
| oiaohm | Designing a cpu is large amount of theory as well. | Nov 02 11:41 |
| oiaohm | Building something and operating to max are two different things tenderfoot. | Nov 02 11:42 |
| tenderfoot | ofcourse it is, but at no point is "infinite" considered | Nov 02 11:42 |
| oiaohm | Ie you can build a turing machine. You can never operate it to turing theory idea. | Nov 02 11:42 |
| tenderfoot | then it's not a turing machine,, BY DEFINITION !!! sorry you lose.. | Nov 02 11:43 |
| oiaohm | so a cpu that has never been used is not a cpu tenderfoot? | Nov 02 11:43 |
| tenderfoot | ofcourse it is,, what's that got to do with the price of eggs ?? | Nov 02 11:43 |
| oiaohm | By definition a built turning machine can match every one of turing designs all bar feeding in the large bit of paper. | Nov 02 11:44 |
| oiaohm | exactly the same as a cpu lacking power. | Nov 02 11:44 |
| tenderfoot | and infinate memory, and nifinate paper, so it's NOT a TURING machine,, geezzz sure you can build something else. but you cannot build a Turing machine.. | Nov 02 11:45 |
| oiaohm | You are lacking 1 bit to operate it tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:45 |
| oiaohm | That does not mean its not a turning machine. | Nov 02 11:45 |
| oiaohm | turing machine | Nov 02 11:45 |
| tenderfoot | yea, that makes it impossible, and not a turing machine, but i tire of this, look up with infinite means then come back to me | Nov 02 11:46 |
| oiaohm | Yet turing machine have halt instructions. | Nov 02 11:46 |
| oiaohm | By design. | Nov 02 11:46 |
| oiaohm | So you can fully test the turing machine that it works correctly. | Nov 02 11:46 |
| tenderfoot | so what ?? they also have infinate memory,, so by definition it's impossible practically. | Nov 02 11:46 |
| tenderfoot | therefore it's NOT a turing machine,,, get it ? | Nov 02 11:47 |
| oiaohm | If you kept on producing paper you could have infinate memory on the built turing machine. | Nov 02 11:47 |
| oiaohm | Just no one is insane enough todo that tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:47 |
| tenderfoot | no you cant,, | Nov 02 11:47 |
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| tenderfoot | you cannot produce an infinate amount of paper, or memory.. end of discussion :) | Nov 02 11:48 |
| oiaohm | If you can keep on doing it for ever you can tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:49 |
| oiaohm | Ok doing it forever would be insanely hard. | Nov 02 11:49 |
| tenderfoot | yes, but you cant can you,,, forever is infinate and practically impossible.. | Nov 02 11:49 |
| oiaohm | So most people who build machines following turing machine designs don't try to do that. | Nov 02 11:49 |
| tenderfoot | even if you use every atom in the universe, what then ?? | Nov 02 11:49 |
| oiaohm | Find another universe | Nov 02 11:50 |
| tenderfoot | it's still finite,,, big but finite | Nov 02 11:50 |
| oiaohm | The question is if there is a limit to numbers of atoms in the universe | Nov 02 11:50 |
| oiaohm | We don't know tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:50 |
| tenderfoot | yes we do,, people actually understand what infinity is and means,, just you dont seem to get it yet.. | Nov 02 11:51 |
| oiaohm | You are not god you don't know everything . So you don't know truthfully if the universe is finite. | Nov 02 11:51 |
| oiaohm | You are only presuming its impossiable. | Nov 02 11:52 |
| oiaohm | Impracatical yes. Impossiable maybe. | Nov 02 11:52 |
| tenderfoot | no it IS impossible,, im not presuming anything,, I know.. by DEFINITION infinity is impossible. | Nov 02 11:52 |
| oiaohm | Its only a maybe. | Nov 02 11:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | infinity actually is possible | Nov 02 11:53 |
| oiaohm | No one has proved that the Universe ends anywhere. | Nov 02 11:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | you're pretty ignorant saying its not | Nov 02 11:53 |
| tenderfoot | look up infinity,, and ask who is really ignorant !!! | Nov 02 11:54 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity | Nov 02 11:55 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Infinity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 94.57 KB | Nov 02 11:55 |
| oiaohm | We know it. | Nov 02 11:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | [diablo@infinity ~]$ dig infinity | Nov 02 11:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | ;; ANSWER SECTION: | Nov 02 11:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | infinity.0INA192.168.2.2 | Nov 02 11:55 |
| tenderfoot | great,, well read it, so the only infinite thing is the ignorance shown here :) | Nov 02 11:55 |
| oiaohm | Infinity (symbolically represented by ∞) refers to several distinct concepts – usually linked to the idea of "without end" | Nov 02 11:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | apparently its my workstation, who knew. | Nov 02 11:55 |
| oiaohm | Notice idea without end is also infinity tenderfoot | Nov 02 11:56 |
| oiaohm | The word infinity has more than 1 meaning. | Nov 02 11:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: what about a dick without end? | Nov 02 11:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | because I have infinity in my pants then. | Nov 02 11:56 |
| tenderfoot | mabey you should stop playing with it then,, I hear you go blind from that.. | Nov 02 11:58 |
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| oiaohm | tenderfoot: you really show your ignorances of the unknowns. There are a lot of things in the Universe we don't know if they are unlimited or not. | Nov 02 11:58 |
| oiaohm | Its too early to be claiming infinity is impossiable. | Nov 02 11:59 |
| tenderfoot | like what oiaohm,, tell me something you know for sure is infinite ?? | Nov 02 11:59 |
| ThistleWeb | Microsoft's capacity for deception? | Nov 02 11:59 |
| oiaohm | That is it we don't know anything that is infinity. Yet we have many items we cannot prove they are not tenderfoot. | Nov 02 11:59 |
| ThistleWeb | they never seem to get close to the limits, despite all the times they've been caught | Nov 02 12:00 |
| oiaohm | Proving infinity is like proving good exists. | Nov 02 12:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | *God | Nov 02 12:00 |
| tenderfoot | sure, in science you cant prove a negatice, | Nov 02 12:00 |
| tenderfoot | negative* | Nov 02 12:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: I dunno, Im just going to put tenderfoot on ignore | Nov 02 12:00 |
| ThistleWeb | though that's probably more down to arrogance than anything else | Nov 02 12:00 |
| tenderfoot | but that does not make any difference. | Nov 02 12:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | unlike him, I have a job, and it needs to be done | Nov 02 12:00 |
| tenderfoot | Good luck with that Diablo.. | Nov 02 12:01 |
| oiaohm | Until we prove that is nothing that is infinity tenderfoot we cannot be 100 percent sure if a device could not be built that cannot run for infinity. | Nov 02 12:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: well, look at God | Nov 02 12:02 |
| *MinceR finds a mirror | Nov 02 12:02 | |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: a machine that is infinite | Nov 02 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Basically anything else tenderfoot is presuming something we don't have the data to back up. | Nov 02 12:03 |
| tenderfoot | yes, it's better than just making stuff up.. | Nov 02 12:03 |
| oiaohm | So you cannot be sure if a turing machine that is built if someone tried to run it for infinity could or could not tenderfoot. That is the problem. The machines have been built. Of course it would have to be repeared for all that time. | Nov 02 12:05 |
| oiaohm | Operated for infinity we are not sure of. | Nov 02 12:05 |
| oiaohm | But you would have to be kinda nuts to want a machine to run for infinity. | Nov 02 12:05 |
| tenderfoot | it's not "running for infinity" it's "INFINITE MEMORY" and INFINITE Paper tape" two infinities that are practically impossible.. no matter how you try to spin it.. | Nov 02 12:06 |
| ThistleWeb | I dunno, DeepThought was kinda funny | Nov 02 12:06 |
| tenderfoot | sorry your wrong,, give it up allready :) | Nov 02 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Read define of Infinity tenderfoot | Nov 02 12:06 |
| tenderfoot | I did,, did you ?? | Nov 02 12:06 |
| ThistleWeb | at least he did eventually give an answer, even if the question wasn't clear | Nov 02 12:06 |
| oiaohm | A paper tape without end ie its always being lenthed would be one of the meanings of infinite | Nov 02 12:06 |
| tenderfoot | long yes,, infinite NO... come on you can do better than that,, cant you ?? | Nov 02 12:07 |
| oiaohm | You are taking the mean that the paper has to be infinite to start off tenderfoot. | Nov 02 12:07 |
| oiaohm | If you never find end to the machine it is infinte. | Nov 02 12:07 |
| tenderfoot | what about the infinite memory capacity,, how do you spin that into practice ?? | Nov 02 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Same if memory capacity is always growing. To the machine its infinte. | Nov 02 12:08 |
| oiaohm | Ie you don't need infinite to end up with something after a infinite ammount of time. | Nov 02 12:09 |
| tenderfoot | no it's not :) clearly it's not,, how can you say it IS ? | Nov 02 12:09 |
| oiaohm | ie it will be infinite after a infinite ammount of time tenderfoot | Nov 02 12:09 |
| oiaohm | Is that possiable for a human to prove of disprove no. | Nov 02 12:09 |
| tenderfoot | I give up,, your right,, your perfect and infinite in your capacity, brain the size of a universe !!! well done.. | Nov 02 12:09 |
| ThistleWeb | infinite implies guarantees, there are no guarantees in life as that implies prescience of the future, and a fix designed for issues discovered in the future which none of us have | Nov 02 12:10 |
| oiaohm | You were just making some presumes that the start of the machine had to have everything. tenderfoot Not that it could grow to it. | Nov 02 12:11 |
| tenderfoot | what guarantee does infinite imply ? | Nov 02 12:11 |
| ThistleWeb | it means it has no limits | Nov 02 12:11 |
| tenderfoot | how fast does something have to grow to get infinite ??? | Nov 02 12:12 |
| ThistleWeb | that it guarantees there are no limits, otherwise when one is reached, it becomes finite, not infinite | Nov 02 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Fast or as slow as you like because you would need infinite time to get there. | Nov 02 12:12 |
| tenderfoot | thats right so by definition infinite is practically impossible. | Nov 02 12:12 |
| ThistleWeb | it means "we KNOW there are no limits" when nobody can know that | Nov 02 12:12 |
| oiaohm | But pratically impossiable does not equal impossiable. | Nov 02 12:13 |
| tenderfoot | it equals impossible in practice, ie impossible | Nov 02 12:13 |
| ThistleWeb | can humans ever learn to teleport? I'd seriously doubt that, no matter how capable our brains are to learn and adapt | Nov 02 12:14 |
| tenderfoot | except in theory, or a theoretical device. | Nov 02 12:14 |
| oiaohm | Also its only impossible in practice due to current level of tech tenderfoot. | Nov 02 12:14 |
| ThistleWeb | therefor it's finite, even if we haven't reached the limits yet | Nov 02 12:14 |
| oiaohm | Define teleport ThistleWeb | Nov 02 12:15 |
| tenderfoot | oiaohm, it's not nothing to do with "the current level of tech" | Nov 02 12:15 |
| ThistleWeb | move from one spot to another without physically crossing any point between | Nov 02 12:16 |
| ThistleWeb | disappear then reappear | Nov 02 12:16 |
| oiaohm | tenderfoot: it does what if we descover a loop hole that allows use to do it. Maybe in quatuim tech. | Nov 02 12:16 |
| ThistleWeb | as phiosophical as this is, I'm not sure the connection to this channel | Nov 02 12:17 |
| oiaohm | ThistleWeb: teleport physically kinda nasty. | Nov 02 12:17 |
| oiaohm | Few ways though of is destory body at one end and transfer mind to other into a new body. | Nov 02 12:17 |
| ThistleWeb | what we can say is that we as a species have not reached out limits yet, and if the corps get their way they'll have patented everything not nailed down | Nov 02 12:18 |
| ThistleWeb | further limiting our progress | Nov 02 12:18 |
| ThistleWeb | to what gives them money | Nov 02 12:18 |
| ThistleWeb | then again, if we don't get a handle on global warming we'll not have a planet left to live on to reach our limits | Nov 02 12:19 |
| oiaohm | Global warming does not worry the earth really. | Nov 02 12:20 |
| oiaohm | Earth will very happly get rid of US and start over. | Nov 02 12:20 |
| ThistleWeb | of course it doesn't, it'll adapt after we've wiped ourselves out | Nov 02 12:20 |
| oiaohm | It should be be save the earth. it should be save us. | Nov 02 12:20 |
| oiaohm | Its not like the earth is all that worried. | Nov 02 12:21 |
| ThistleWeb | billions of species would breathe a hefty sigh of relief after we're gone | Nov 02 12:21 |
| ThistleWeb | if they realised the importance of the move | Nov 02 12:21 |
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| oiaohm | Most movie teleport systems has person rip to bits and reassembed at the other end ThistleWeb | Nov 02 12:23 |
| oiaohm | Not a process I would personally like to go threw. | Nov 02 12:23 |
| ThistleWeb | oiaohm: exactly, so no matter how infinite the brain may appear for knowledge and skills, it'll never learn that......so it's finite | Nov 02 12:24 |
| oiaohm | I would more like faster coms to control a robot at the other end ThistleWeb . | Nov 02 12:24 |
| oiaohm | At least I would not be risking being assembled wrong. | Nov 02 12:25 |
| ThistleWeb | imagine that tech did become reality, and MS had a patent on it | Nov 02 12:25 |
| oiaohm | Just thing of the night mares of a virus infected teleport pad. | Nov 02 12:25 |
| ThistleWeb | the only way to do it was in one of THEIR machines | Nov 02 12:26 |
| ThistleWeb | being teleported by malware writers straight into a cellar in Russia and a ransom email sent as an autoresponder | Nov 02 12:26 |
| oiaohm | Another reason why I perfer remote control robots at other end. | Nov 02 12:27 |
| ThistleWeb | or the DHS using scams like that to teleport the guys they want into Guantanamo | Nov 02 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Best one done by law inforcement was a non existant loto. | Nov 02 12:28 |
| oiaohm | Send out to the crimes they won and they kind came. | Nov 02 12:28 |
| oiaohm | Human stupidity at times is a crack up. | Nov 02 12:29 |
| ThistleWeb | there's plenty there for comedy skits | Nov 02 12:30 |
| fewa | lol | Nov 02 12:36 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] YouTube warning to tax dodgers - Channel 4 News http://tinyurl.com/ydtwky4 | Nov 02 12:37 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] A Police caution for defacing a Wikipedia entry? MS should be worried now. http://tinyurl.com/ydg6ppe | Nov 02 12:48 | |
| tenderfoot | http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/02/south-africa-passenger-ejector-seat | Nov 02 12:55 |
| tenderfoot | whoops !!!! | Nov 02 12:56 |
| tenderfoot | "It probably is best not to fiddle with switches or controls when riding in the back seat of an air force plane." | Nov 02 12:56 |
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| oiaohm | Boy that guy is luck tenderfoot | Nov 02 13:02 |
| tenderfoot | yes, very | Nov 02 13:03 |
| oiaohm | Ok fiddle with switches lot of cases can be fine due to controls being able to be locked off all bar the switch control. | Nov 02 13:04 |
| oiaohm | And eject | Nov 02 13:04 |
| oiaohm | Now touch either bad things could happen. | Nov 02 13:05 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzY2Mg Ok nice still a binary blob but at least not in kernel space. | Nov 02 13:33 |
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| tenderfoot | ioaohm, time itself is not constant, so the term "forever" is meaninless, look through a telescope and see the light from a Galaxy 13 billion light years away, and ask yourself how old is that photon you are looking at, in your frame of reference the photon is 13 billion years old, but the photon (at the speed of light) experiences (in it's frame of reference) ZERO time. The instant it's created (photoelectric effect, Ei | Nov 02 14:16 |
| oiaohm | tenderfoot: Exactly. Time is not a straight line. So if it can be bent enough unlimited of time might be equal to a second to us. We are not advanced enough to bend time like this. | Nov 02 14:18 |
| tenderfoot | a photon never sees or ever can perceive time or space. | Nov 02 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Gravity wells bending time tenderfoot don't forgot those. | Nov 02 14:19 |
| tenderfoot | we routinely "bend" time and space, by our very existance. | Nov 02 14:19 |
| oiaohm | Its the amount of bend. | Nov 02 14:19 |
| tenderfoot | therefore time is not constant, | Nov 02 14:20 |
| tenderfoot | it's got little to do with gravity, it's to do with speed. | Nov 02 14:20 |
| oiaohm | Gravity lens that bend light. Gravity effects speed. | Nov 02 14:21 |
| oiaohm | infinite ammount of time might take long at all with the right conditions. | Nov 02 14:22 |
| tenderfoot | gravity effects the shape of the universe, gravity lensing is due to the different path lengths due to the warping of 'space/time'. not the effect of gravity on the photon, which has no mass | Nov 02 14:22 |
| oiaohm | Gravity and speed both can effect time. | Nov 02 14:23 |
| oiaohm | Speed is a larger effect. | Nov 02 14:24 |
| tenderfoot | gravity does not effect time, gravity effects the shape of the universe, therefore making a longer path for something to travel. longer path means longer time, but not a change in time. | Nov 02 14:25 |
| oiaohm | The more you understand of how matter works the more it harder to say what is impossiable. | Nov 02 14:25 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Response to The #Guardian ’s Boosting of #Vista7 (Including Transcript) http://ping.fm/3T4JT #microsoft #ownage | Nov 02 14:26 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Response to The Guardians Boosting of Vista 7 (Including Transcript) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 135.52 KB | Nov 02 14:26 |
| oiaohm | A lot of things are a presumed to be constants under closer inspection are not. | Nov 02 14:27 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_time_dilation tenderfoot | Nov 02 14:28 |
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| tenderfoot | exactly my point, therefore time is not constant, and the fast you travel in your frame of reference the slower times goes, but you dont see it in your frame of reference, you have to observe it from another frame of reference. no two objects moving at different speeds experience the "same" time. | Nov 02 14:29 |
| tenderfoot | I know how gravitational lensing works thanks. | Nov 02 14:29 |
| tenderfoot | " is considered to be a difference in the passage of proper time at different positions as described by a metric tensor of spacetime. " | Nov 02 14:30 |
| tenderfoot | exactly what I said. | Nov 02 14:30 |
| oiaohm | Lower the gravity fast clock will run. | Nov 02 14:31 |
| oiaohm | Now that does introduce a few nasty question for traveling between solar systems. | Nov 02 14:31 |
| tenderfoot | no it does not work that way, otherwise in space (zero gravity) clocks with run super fast and they dont. | Nov 02 14:31 |
| oiaohm | Yes I just screwed it up. I was thinking near black hole. Closer you get the slower you clock runs and as you get away from it the faster it runs so causing a major time pass difference. | Nov 02 14:35 |
| oiaohm | And the more distance away the lower the gravity force you have to resist to stay there. | Nov 02 14:35 |
| tenderfoot | because the very high gravity of a black hole changes the shape of the universe, making for longer travel paths in "space/time" | Nov 02 14:36 |
| oiaohm | Lot of effects exist to be played with. | Nov 02 14:36 |
| oiaohm | How do we know we are not in a slow part of the universe. | Nov 02 14:37 |
| tenderfoot | we are, a slow part is any part with mass in it, that changes the shape of space/time. it's everywhere it just varies from place to place, alot of mass in a black hole. not much mass in deep "empty" space. a little bit of mass on/IS earth. | Nov 02 14:39 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] IP Ventures licenses Microsoft Research technology to entrepreneurs and companies in order to foster innovation http://i5.be/QX | Nov 02 14:41 | |
| oiaohm | Until we can get out into fairly empty space we really will not know how slow were we are is. | Nov 02 14:42 |
| tenderfoot | we know exactly how slow it is, it's a well known science, and it's used routinely in everyday practical purperses. | Nov 02 14:42 |
| tenderfoot | such as GPS satellite internal atomic clocks, have to be periodically reset to correct the time dilation due to their speed. | Nov 02 14:43 |
| tenderfoot | we also travel through the universe and quite a clip. | Nov 02 14:43 |
| oiaohm | And around a item we don't have the exact weight of. | Nov 02 14:44 |
| oiaohm | Currently we have a guess. | Nov 02 14:44 |
| tenderfoot | we can measure gravity (and time) very accurately. | Nov 02 14:45 |
| tenderfoot | if you can measure gravity, you can determine mass. | Nov 02 14:45 |
| tenderfoot | it's called the "theory of relativity" quite famous in come circles. | Nov 02 14:45 |
| tenderfoot | some * | Nov 02 14:45 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Lobby the European Commission and impose software patents on standards: http://i5.be/QY | Nov 02 14:46 | |
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| oiaohm | theory of relativity also points out the problem. We can measure gravity and time to our per spective quite well. Now someone outside it. Not as exact. tenderfoot. Note I said weight. I was meaning mass. To work out how deep of a hole in space time we are in. | Nov 02 14:47 |
| tenderfoot | it's called "the frame of reference" and yes we can measure our time frame of reference very accuraturally, as we can for other frames of reference as well. | Nov 02 14:49 |
| oiaohm | That is relative. We cannot measure what nothing is. | Nov 02 14:50 |
| ThistleWeb | personally I blame God | Nov 02 14:50 |
| tenderfoot | there is no "nothing" to it | Nov 02 14:50 |
| oiaohm | Ie empty space very low mass tenderfoot | Nov 02 14:50 |
| tenderfoot | there is no place or time where there is "nothing". | Nov 02 14:50 |
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| oiaohm | There is nothing there to make a compare to. | Nov 02 14:50 |
| tenderfoot | empty space, is the universe, and therefore has the total mass of the universe. | Nov 02 14:51 |
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| oiaohm | Base line data tenderfoot is missing. | Nov 02 14:53 |
| oiaohm | One day we will catch up with it. | Nov 02 14:53 |
| tenderfoot | what baseline data is missing ?? | Nov 02 14:53 |
| oiaohm | What is the fastest time frame. We don't know. So we don't know how slow were we are is completely. | Nov 02 14:54 |
| tenderfoot | fastest time frame, is easy, it's 299792.45Kms / sec. | Nov 02 14:55 |
| tenderfoot | or c | Nov 02 14:55 |
| oiaohm | For the progression of time. | Nov 02 14:55 |
| tenderfoot | and if you happen to be going at that speed you experience ZERO time and ZERO space. | Nov 02 14:56 |
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| sebsebseb | hi | Nov 02 14:56 |
| oiaohm | I am after the other one when you experiene the most time tenderfoot | Nov 02 14:56 |
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| tenderfoot | you expenience the most time, where there is the most warping of space/time. usually considered to be the singularity of a black hole. thats also well known science. | Nov 02 14:57 |
| tenderfoot | but for you, there, on that black hole. you dont see any change in time at all. | Nov 02 14:58 |
| tenderfoot | apart from the normal progression of time, at 1 sec per sec | Nov 02 14:59 |
| oiaohm | That is the other way to what I am asking for tenderfoot | Nov 02 14:59 |
| oiaohm | At a black hole time to you slows down to everyone else. | Nov 02 14:59 |
| tenderfoot | but if im looking at you from outside the black hole, assuming I can see you, you appear to be frozen in time. | Nov 02 14:59 |
| tenderfoot | time to you does not change, time to me does. | Nov 02 15:00 |
| oiaohm | I am after what would be the person expericen the most time compared to everyone else. | Nov 02 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Basically the one that will die from old age first. | Nov 02 15:00 |
| tenderfoot | nothing, you dont "experience" any change in time at all. | Nov 02 15:00 |
| oiaohm | I did not say the person was aware of it. | Nov 02 15:01 |
| tenderfoot | if you sitting on a black hole, old age is not your first concern :) | Nov 02 15:01 |
| oiaohm | Just there 80 years of time would be over first. | Nov 02 15:01 |
| tenderfoot | whos' time ? | Nov 02 15:01 |
| oiaohm | That is my problem where would you go threw 80 years first compared to everyone else in the Universe. | Nov 02 15:02 |
| oiaohm | We know where to find the slowest black holes and the like. | Nov 02 15:03 |
| tenderfoot | if you traveled at the speed of light, you're frame of reference there is NO time, so you will not age, or experience any time at all, or space. the instant you hit c time and space cease to exist (for you). | Nov 02 15:03 |
| oiaohm | Exactly slowing time is simple. | Nov 02 15:04 |
| oiaohm | Ish. | Nov 02 15:04 |
| tenderfoot | but for me, watching you in my frame of reference, you might live for billions of years. | Nov 02 15:04 |
| tenderfoot | like a photon from a distant galaxy, that photon experiences zero time and space, but it may take 13 billion years for that photon to travel from that galaxy to your eye. | Nov 02 15:04 |
| tenderfoot | so how old is that photon ?? | Nov 02 15:05 |
| tenderfoot | zero old or 13 billion years old ? | Nov 02 15:05 |
| tenderfoot | it's both | Nov 02 15:05 |
| tenderfoot | dependant on the frame of reference. | Nov 02 15:05 |
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| oiaohm | Were is the frame of reference where you would have max time passed for the photon to cover that distance tenderfoot | Nov 02 15:06 |
| oiaohm | We simply don't know tenderfoot | Nov 02 15:06 |
| tenderfoot | frame of reference is not a "where".. so you cant ask that question. | Nov 02 15:07 |
| tenderfoot | and it's not a when either | Nov 02 15:07 |
| oiaohm | It is really. | Nov 02 15:07 |
| tenderfoot | your "frame of reference" is you're frame of reference. | Nov 02 15:08 |
| oiaohm | The right viewing location will make it the longest. | Nov 02 15:08 |
| tenderfoot | the photon's frame of reference is it's frame of reference. | Nov 02 15:08 |
| tenderfoot | and never the two shall meet. "until you see it". | Nov 02 15:08 |
| tenderfoot | the "right veiwing location" is your frame of reference.. | Nov 02 15:08 |
| tenderfoot | you dont get to pick and choose. | Nov 02 15:09 |
| oiaohm | You can change you frame of reference by moving location. | Nov 02 15:09 |
| oiaohm | Ok its very hard for us to move large space distances to see other frame of references. | Nov 02 15:10 |
| tenderfoot | yes, you can, then you have a new and different frame of reference, | Nov 02 15:10 |
| tenderfoot | you cant see other frames of reference, unless you are in it. | Nov 02 15:10 |
| oiaohm | Bingo. | Nov 02 15:10 |
| tenderfoot | some obscure physist did a bit of work on this subject some time ago, it's quite well worked out. | Nov 02 15:10 |
| DaemonFC | http://toastytech.com/guis/index.html | Nov 02 15:11 |
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| DaemonFC | http://toastytech.com/guis/win7.html | Nov 02 15:11 |
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| oiaohm | tenderfoot: But with enough information you can predict what the difference going to be with them at other frames of references. Problem here for some frames of references we still don't know enough and no one has been there to confirm our maths as right. | Nov 02 15:13 |
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| tenderfoot | you dont have to "be there" and we do know and have confirmed the math is right, from a photon to a black hole. the two extreems, we know about them, we predicted them, then we discovered them. we also measured the speed of light. The math's is right, Einstein was right, the rest is what they say is history. | Nov 02 15:16 |
| _Hicham_ | Einstein was not always right | Nov 02 15:17 |
| tenderfoot | mabey, but he was about this. | Nov 02 15:17 |
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| DaemonFC | "Over the years Microsoft has conditioned the world to accept that software generally can no longer be uninstalled. | Nov 02 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | To reflect this, Windows 7 renames the "Add/Remove" control panel item to "Program Features". | Nov 02 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | Interestingly IE can be "removed", but all that does is remove IExplore.exe (which is little more than a loader stub), removes the icons, and unregisters the HTTP shell protocol handlers. IE actually remains and can be embedded by applications (such as the desktop shell). | Nov 02 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 7e, a version of Windows 7 that claims to exclude the IE application product, "removes" IE in the same way but does not offer the option to re-enable IE. On both Win7 and Win7e dropping the IExplore.exe file in to the Internet Explorer folder is all it takes to be able to invoke the IE front end. | Nov 02 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | Win7e was produced for distribution in Europe due to government concerns but dropped at the last minute due to companies allegedly complaining that it was too different, would break things, and would be harder to support." | Nov 02 15:18 |
| DaemonFC | I wonder how much MS paid for them to say this | Nov 02 15:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: well the problem is | Nov 02 15:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | you cant remove msie because _it shouldnt be removed_ | Nov 02 15:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats like trying to remove webkit from osx | Nov 02 15:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | a lot of apps will break | Nov 02 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, removing the frontend doesn't remove the engine | Nov 02 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | so nothing wil break | Nov 02 15:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im talking actually removing it | Nov 02 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | you're essentially just banishing the IE browser IE | Nov 02 15:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | thousands of applications depend on the trident ole object | Nov 02 15:19 |
| _Hicham_ | why remove the frontend ? | Nov 02 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | *so IE can't be opened by anything | Nov 02 15:19 |
| _Hicham_ | the mshtml.dll is what matters | Nov 02 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Trident remains anyway, no applications will break if iexplore.exe is removed and the shell protocol handlers are unregistered | Nov 02 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | I hate IE and some apps are hard coded to try to open it | Nov 02 15:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | [10:15:56] <Diablo-D3> Im talking actually removing it | Nov 02 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | Windows 7 will open your default browser instead if you remove IE's frontend | Nov 02 15:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | and btw, wine does have the gecko ole thing | Nov 02 15:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | but its incomplete | Nov 02 15:20 |
| _Hicham_ | even open source applications use trident | Nov 02 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, That's a hell of a design flaw | Nov 02 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | Why would they want to use that pile of shit? | Nov 02 15:21 |
| tenderfoot | because it works ? | Nov 02 15:21 |
| _Hicham_ | because they are sure it is there | Nov 02 15:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | because its there and they need to display dumb html | Nov 02 15:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: its no different than using safari's webkit | Nov 02 15:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | on osx, its always there | Nov 02 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, Embedding IE is like going onto a used car lot and telling them to give you that 20 year old $500 deal that smokes on both ends | Nov 02 15:21 |
| DaemonFC | when you could get a real car | Nov 02 15:22 |
| _Hicham_ | what is the solution ? | Nov 02 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | IE is like an unmaintained building that should be condemned | Nov 02 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | but every once in a while, Microsoft gives it a paint job and calls it new | Nov 02 15:22 |
| _Hicham_ | if i am developing an application for windows, i would do the same | Nov 02 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | I would just bundle Gecko or Webkit | Nov 02 15:23 |
| DaemonFC | it's not like you can't do that | Nov 02 15:23 |
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| _Hicham_ | every operating system have a default rendering engine | Nov 02 15:23 |
| tenderfoot | if you dont like it dont use it, hard drives are big these days, | Nov 02 15:23 |
| _Hicham_ | u can | Nov 02 15:23 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, So? Doesn't make it worth using. | Nov 02 15:23 |
| DaemonFC | Webkit is years ahead of IE and much faster | Nov 02 15:23 |
| tenderfoot | we'll use it | Nov 02 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | on a Mac, I can understand embedding Webkit, it's a modern engine | Nov 02 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | Trident is not | Nov 02 15:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: how about it this way | Nov 02 15:24 |
| _Hicham_ | but, bundling will add size | Nov 02 15:24 |
| _Hicham_ | for nothing | Nov 02 15:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | the smallest engine out there is webkit | Nov 02 15:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | its about 4 or 5 megs when stripped down | Nov 02 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, like <5 megs | Nov 02 15:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | your app is 200k. | Nov 02 15:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | do the math. | Nov 02 15:24 |
| tenderfoot | I use IE, and the slowest thing by far is the speed of the internet connection, not the browser | Nov 02 15:24 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Nov 02 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, I'd still do it that way | Nov 02 15:25 |
| _Hicham_ | bundling is not a solution | Nov 02 15:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | then fuck off and die, no one wants your apps. | Nov 02 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | IE just disgusts me | Nov 02 15:25 |
| tenderfoot | does not matter how fast webkit works the weak link is the net connection. | Nov 02 15:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | even steam uses ie. | Nov 02 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | it's offensively backwards and broken | Nov 02 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | no person in their right mind would use it | Nov 02 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | the onyl people using IE have spyware crawling all over the computer | Nov 02 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | and 50 toolbars | Nov 02 15:25 |
| _Hicham_ | plus, trident have a really great documentation | Nov 02 15:25 |
| tenderfoot | diablo, you refering to me ?? | Nov 02 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | you can't even really use ad blocking with it | Nov 02 15:26 |
| _Hicham_ | MSDN is one of the greatest sources of documentation on the net | Nov 02 15:26 |
| _Hicham_ | if u have ever worked with Visual Studio, u will understand this | Nov 02 15:27 |
| DaemonFC | I would go further and say that if you use Trident in your web-facing application, then all the security problems in IE become problems in your application that you cannot fix | Nov 02 15:27 |
| DaemonFC | I would be too ashamed to embed IE in anything for that reason alone | Nov 02 15:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | I must be using windows wrong | Nov 02 15:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont have any ie toolbars installed | Nov 02 15:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | nor any malware | Nov 02 15:28 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, IE has always been too busted to really want to use | Nov 02 15:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, and your mom was probably doing drugs when she had you. | Nov 02 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | the last time I used it regularly was to open a stuborn site that said only IE users could get in | Nov 02 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | those are mostly gone | Nov 02 15:29 |
| DaemonFC | IE is toxic waste | Nov 02 15:30 |
| tenderfoot | well Diablo-D3 that is most expected from you, thanks for showing us your 'form'. | Nov 02 15:30 |
| DaemonFC | seems like every year there are at least half a dozen security bugs that let spyware install just by visiting a page | Nov 02 15:30 |
| DaemonFC | it hasn't really improved in IE 7 or 8, they just got better at marketing it as "secure" | Nov 02 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft even refuses to patch critical bugs on IE 7/8 in Vista/7 because "UAC should stop the attack", assuming you hae it on | Nov 02 15:31 |
| DaemonFC | what a piss poor excuse for leaving a vulnerability open jsut to nto add to your patch count | Nov 02 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | it's all PR | Nov 02 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | *just / not | Nov 02 15:32 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, That would be like Ford telling everyone that the Pinto was safe if you just drove it backwards | Nov 02 15:33 |
| DaemonFC | right? | Nov 02 15:33 |
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| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: except no one actually gives a fuck what you think | Nov 02 15:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | I thought you'd realize that by now | Nov 02 15:42 |
| DaemonFC | pretty much the only people that actually use IE are clueless | Nov 02 15:42 |
| tenderfoot | im guessing that applies to you as well diablo-D3 | Nov 02 15:42 |
| DaemonFC | they're like lambs for the PC reapir shop slaughter | Nov 02 15:43 |
| DaemonFC | charging $70 an hour to repair all the spyware these guys run into | Nov 02 15:43 |
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| DaemonFC | it's like watching someone repeatedly slam their dick in a car door and refuse to learn to stop doing it | Nov 02 15:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, I agree, sleeping with your mom is not a good idea | Nov 02 15:44 |
| DaemonFC | those are the same Norton-protected, Conficker-infected PCs | Nov 02 15:44 |
| _Hicham_ | most people use Internet Explorer | Nov 02 15:44 |
| _Hicham_ | because u must use it | Nov 02 15:44 |
| _Hicham_ | a lot of banks still require it | Nov 02 15:45 |
| _Hicham_ | as well as other gov sites | Nov 02 15:45 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, Good enough reason to switch banks | Nov 02 15:45 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Prius shoves #Tesla Roadster under SUV due to shitty breaks, Prius owner facing death penalty http://ur1.ca/ez35 | Nov 02 15:45 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Prius and Tesla gang up on SUV The SUV wins « Watts Up With That? .::. Size~: 100.24 KB | Nov 02 15:45 |
| _Hicham_ | a lot of sites are using vbscript, which is found in IE only | Nov 02 15:45 |
| DaemonFC | I'd go in and close my accounts and go find another bank if mine started doing that | Nov 02 15:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | _Hicham_: erm, Im pretty sure they dont use vbscript | Nov 02 15:46 |
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| _Hicham_ | Diablo-D3 : not banks | Nov 02 15:46 |
| DaemonFC | fortunately, most banks, as businesses, don't want to alienate their customers for no good reason | Nov 02 15:46 |
| _Hicham_ | but other sites | Nov 02 15:46 |
| DaemonFC | which is exactly what you do when you say "Come back with IE" | Nov 02 15:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | btw, does anyone actually read my identica feed? | Nov 02 15:47 |
| tenderfoot | no me !!! :) | Nov 02 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, The concept of web standards are that you can write it once ance view it in any browser that conforms to those standards | Nov 02 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | the only browser that has been lagging behind in this regard is IE | Nov 02 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | IE 8 is only marginally better than IE 6 | Nov 02 15:48 |
| _Hicham_ | because MS is the standard | Nov 02 15:48 |
| _Hicham_ | that is why | Nov 02 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | it's fixed a lot of rendering bugs but hasn't actually added additional support for web standards | Nov 02 15:49 |
| _Hicham_ | everyone was happy with IE | Nov 02 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | IE 8 is still effectively stuck in the 1990s | Nov 02 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | the web pages you see haven't changed much in 10 years because IE hasn't changed much in 10 years | Nov 02 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | Internet Explorer is like the No Child Left Behind Act for the Internet | Nov 02 15:51 |
| DaemonFC | it forces all the competitive browsers to slow down to accomodate one bad one that's obsolete by at least a decade | Nov 02 15:51 |
| _Hicham_ | since the introduction of firefox in the market, web developers are having a hard time | Nov 02 15:51 |
| _Hicham_ | coding for IE and Firefox | Nov 02 15:51 |
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| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, Good browsers continue to poach about 1-1.5% of IE users every month | Nov 02 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | eventually IE will be the one that gets locked out of sites telling them to come back without that demented Tonka toy | Nov 02 15:53 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't think so | Nov 02 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | I mean, let's be realistic, it will take 3-4 years at this rate | Nov 02 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | but it will happen | Nov 02 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | IE has lost share every month since like 2004 | Nov 02 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | without exception | Nov 02 15:54 |
| _Hicham_ | let's hope that | Nov 02 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | it was like 96%, now it's liek 64.5% | Nov 02 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | so it's like the long slow death of Communism | Nov 02 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | people only put up with bullshit for so long | Nov 02 15:56 |
| _Hicham_ | which browser will dominate ? | Nov 02 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, Firefox is still the single fastest growing browser, but that doesn't matter | Nov 02 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | the overall goal of Gecko, Webkit, and Presto (Opera) is full standards compliance | Nov 02 15:57 |
| DaemonFC | so take your pick | Nov 02 15:57 |
| DaemonFC | it doesn't matter which browser dominates if all of them speak the same language | Nov 02 15:57 |
| _Hicham_ | have u ever tried midori ? | Nov 02 15:57 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a small webkit browser | Nov 02 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, Yeah, it crashed a lot, but it shows potential | Nov 02 15:58 |
| _Hicham_ | which version did u test ? | Nov 02 15:58 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] "O NETemprego está a ter um elevado número de acessos Por esta razão poderão ocorrer indisponibilidades temporárias deste serviço." ah tb... | Nov 02 15:58 | |
| _Hicham_ | now it is in 0.2.0 | Nov 02 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | mmmm, don't remember, maybe 0.1 or so | Nov 02 15:58 |
| _Hicham_ | if they add client side certificates management to it, a lot of people will migrate | Nov 02 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, You remember that first Microsoft ignored Firefox, then they had their paid hit squad try to take it out (so-called journalists), then they tried poaching all of Firefox's user interface features, and still kept losing | Nov 02 15:59 |
| _Hicham_ | that is the single big thing missing | Nov 02 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | now they claim they're interested in web standards, but that's a sham | Nov 02 15:59 |
| _Hicham_ | they help mozilla team | Nov 02 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | they'll fix the most obvious problems, add support for the standards that don't conflict with proprietary crap like Silver Blight | Nov 02 16:00 |
| _Hicham_ | they even send them a cake when they released Windows Vista | Nov 02 16:00 |
| DaemonFC | and they'll continue losing share | Nov 02 16:00 |
| DaemonFC | because people don't want applications that are not designed to do what they want to do with them | Nov 02 16:00 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, If you look at all the programs bundled with Windows, you'll see a pattern emerge | Nov 02 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft supports Microsoft's ambitions first | Nov 02 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | Now, if something gets too popular to not support, they may throw it in, years after the fact | Nov 02 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | (AAC support in Windows Media Player 12 / Playback only) | Nov 02 16:01 |
| DaemonFC | (CSS Level 2.1 support, 10 years late, in IE) | Nov 02 16:02 |
| DaemonFC | but they are not designed to do what you want them to do | Nov 02 16:02 |
| _Hicham_ | and people still use Windows | Nov 02 16:02 |
| DaemonFC | well, they are, but it's a VERY distant third priority | Nov 02 16:02 |
| DaemonFC | IE has no adblock feature, for example | Nov 02 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft is in the web ad pushing business | Nov 02 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | this puts them at a conflict of interest with the user | Nov 02 16:03 |
| tenderfoot | my IE has add block !!! | Nov 02 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | they want to cram ads down your throat and spy on you, so why would they throw in an ad blocker? | Nov 02 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | tenderfoot, There's a few third party add-ons, but none of them are really that great | Nov 02 16:04 |
| DaemonFC | they either load the ad, then hide it (pointless) | Nov 02 16:04 |
| tenderfoot | mine i snot a third party add on, it's just IE. | Nov 02 16:04 |
| DaemonFC | or the blocking list is not easily edited | Nov 02 16:04 |
| DaemonFC | IE7Pro is probably the best attempt I've seen, and the list editor is buggy and confusing | Nov 02 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | it's hard to make or apply new rules, sometimes wildcards work and sometimes not | Nov 02 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | I gave up | Nov 02 16:05 |
| tenderfoot | so now it does have an ad block but it's hard to use ?? | Nov 02 16:06 |
| tenderfoot | make up your mind :) | Nov 02 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | tenderfoot, No, Microsoft has no official blocking API in the browser itself that you can hook into, which is documented | Nov 02 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | Gecko has for a while, Adblock Plus just kind of snaps in and uses that | Nov 02 16:06 |
| tenderfoot | i only said my IE has add block, and im not wrong.. it does. | Nov 02 16:06 |
| DaemonFC | Opera has had an ad blocker built in for a while, you just need a file with rules for it in your profile folder | Nov 02 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | Meh, all of them I've seen for IE were such bug-ridden hackjobs that I gave up | Nov 02 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | The guy that wrote Adblock Plus even put an entry in his blog detailing why he'll never bother making one for IE | Nov 02 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | http://adblockplus.org/blog/adblock-for-internet-explorer-is-not-an-option | Nov 02 16:08 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Adblock Plus and (a little) more: Adblock for Internet Explorer is not an option .::. Size~: 70.19 KB | Nov 02 16:08 |
| tenderfoot | ok fine I have no argument with that, but you said IE does not have add block, I was simply correcting you, you should try to say things that are actually true, it does wonders for your reputation. | Nov 02 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | Internet Explorer is very different from Firefox. Firefox is extensible, this is one of its very basic features. You can write extensions in XUL and JavaScript, this does not only allow extensions to be built fast but also makes sure that you can change virtually anything the browser does. Internet Explorer on the other hand requires binary plugins meaning that you have to use a compiled language like C++, this already increas | Nov 02 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | es the development effort by factor 10 at the very least (that’s the main reason why there are only few really free Internet Explorer extensions). Furthermore, these extensions can only communicate with the browser through predefined interfaces. “New toolbar? Great! Context menu item? Should be doable. Checking everything the browser loads before the browser loads it? Why would you want that? Go build a local proxy server. | Nov 02 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | ” | Nov 02 16:08 |
| *wallc (i=62a521f3@gateway/web/freenode/x-ed2e8f6f330acefd) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 16:09 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More Dubious Practices from the #GatesFoundation http://ping.fm/qSMOa | Nov 02 16:09 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: More Dubious Practices from the Gates Foundation | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 102.07 KB | Nov 02 16:09 |
| wallc | Hey, the Guardian article looks great! | Nov 02 16:09 |
| wallc | Though it looks like "Ubuntu" was mentioned more than once, so "wallclimber" must have been having a senior moment. | Nov 02 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | tenderfoot, Another problem with building "extensions" for IE is that as compiled binaries using a documented API, you can only do very limited things and a new version of IE may break them. | Nov 02 16:10 |
| wallc | Also, in the 20:18 segment of the transcript, Charles states that Microsoft is "at risk of simply becoming really..." - there are a couple of missing words at the end. I've listened to the podcast several times, and I believe the missing words are "really sclerotic". | Nov 02 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | tenderfoot, Another problem would appear if IE was cross platform, the binary extensions would need recompiled or rewritten for every platform | Nov 02 16:10 |
| wallc | What a funny/odd way to describe Microsoft. If that's actually what he said (and it certainly sounds like it) it means: "Affected or marked by sclerosis" (according to Dictionary.com). | Nov 02 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox extensions work on every operating system that Firefox works on | Nov 02 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | unchanged | Nov 02 16:11 |
| wallc | One of the definitions of sclerosis is: "an increase of connective tissue or the like at the expense of more active tissue." | Nov 02 16:11 |
| schestowitz | wallc: | Nov 02 16:11 |
| schestowitz | > A big thanks to wallclimber . My eyesite is going, can't stare at a | Nov 02 16:12 |
| schestowitz | > VDU like I used to, goes all blurry. | Nov 02 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | So whether you want to use Adblock Plus or most any other extension, the same extension, unmodified, will work on Windows, Mac, Linux, FreeBSD, BeOS, eComStation (OS/2) | Nov 02 16:12 |
| schestowitz | Just got this from someone | Nov 02 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | and more | Nov 02 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | there only has to be one extension, written one time, and it works anywhere | Nov 02 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | there really are not that many freeware IE extensions out there, and the ones you have to pay for are craptacular | Nov 02 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | IE keeps getting all these features nobody asked for and all these new features designed to spy on you or let other companies exploit you | Nov 02 16:14 |
| wallc | Do you think I'm correct about the missing words in the podcast? | Nov 02 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft doesn't want to admit it, but IE is at the same usage share it was at in 1999, and falling | Nov 02 16:16 |
| tenderfoot | wallc, it does not make any sense for it to be the word you think it is IMO. | Nov 02 16:16 |
| wallc | tenderfoot, did you listen to it? | Nov 02 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | If they wanted to get more users of IE, they would have to make it do the things users want it to do, and quit trying to whore the users out to "partners" | Nov 02 16:17 |
| *jono has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Nov 02 16:17 | |
| tenderfoot | no, but I read the word you think it is, and that makes no sense. | Nov 02 16:17 |
| wallc | I know, that's why it's so funny...but listen to it and see if you can figure it out. | Nov 02 16:18 |
| DaemonFC | I was considering another Ford, but I'd like to avoid the models that run Microsoft software | Nov 02 16:19 |
| DaemonFC | (Microsoft software in my car......You do the math) | Nov 02 16:19 |
| *jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 16:19 | |
| DaemonFC | there was a joke like that a while back that if Microsoft ran your car, you'd get "Please insert $100 to re-activate your brakes" | Nov 02 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | now Ford is actually using Microsoft software for that "Sync" thing and the Navigation system | Nov 02 16:20 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think I'll be buying another GM car, their reliability has never been all that great | Nov 02 16:21 |
| DaemonFC | I don't want a rice rocket | Nov 02 16:21 |
| DaemonFC | Where does that leave me? | Nov 02 16:21 |
| schestowitz | wallc: tenderfoot is mutex | Nov 02 16:22 |
| DaemonFC | I may just get an off-lease model Ford and be done with it | Nov 02 16:22 |
| wallc | ahh, poor lonely mutex...(just kidding) | Nov 02 16:23 |
| DaemonFC | They have those ads all the time for companies that are getting rid of fleet vehicles, and theyy'll have deals for like a 4-5 year old Taurus for $100 a month | Nov 02 16:23 |
| DaemonFC | I think that's what I'm gonna do, probably, when the time comes | Nov 02 16:23 |
| ThistleWeb | wallc: well done on the transcription | Nov 02 16:23 |
| DaemonFC | just pay double that each month and get my car payments over with in like 2 years | Nov 02 16:24 |
| wallc | Tanks! :) It was fun. | Nov 02 16:24 |
| wallc | I had the chance to play with one of the "Surface" tables in the Microsoft store on Saturday. | Nov 02 16:25 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, I've been meaning to go to one of those Microsoft Stores just to scout it out | Nov 02 16:25 |
| schestowitz | ENjoy it while it lasts. | Nov 02 16:25 |
| schestowitz | They might not make these anymore | Nov 02 16:25 |
| schestowitz | "Limited edition... with Steve's .sig" | Nov 02 16:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] BBC NEWS | Technology | Video gamers face malware deluge - lol http://tinyurl.com/ydqgdr4 | Nov 02 16:26 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | Technology | Video gamers face malware deluge .::. Size~: 49.07 KB | Nov 02 16:26 |
| wallc | It had a crowd of kids around it (and I joined right in). | Nov 02 16:26 |
| schestowitz | [16:25] <DaemonFC> wallc, I've been meaning to go to one of those Microsoft Stores just to scout it out | Nov 02 16:26 |
| schestowitz | To say "it's rubbish anyway"? | Nov 02 16:27 |
| DaemonFC | Just to see what all the fuss is over | Nov 02 16:27 |
| schestowitz | !google trigger happy tv it's rubbish anyway youtube | Nov 02 16:27 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Media Molecule – we make games. » Blog Archive » Made in Britain ... | http://www.mediamolecule.com/2009/06/13/made-in-britain-our-tv-appearance/ | Nov 02 16:27 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - BrokenTV | http://broken-tv.blogspot.com/ | Nov 02 16:27 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Picture messaging on a mobile phone is rubbish - The Inquirer | http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1034617/beast-redmond-orange | Nov 02 16:27 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - SteveStreeting.com » Blog Archive » E3 'big 3′ impressions | http://www.stevestreeting.com/2009/06/03/e3-big-3-impressions/ | Nov 02 16:27 |
| schestowitz | !google trigger happy hello youtube | Nov 02 16:27 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - YouTube - Trigger Happy TV - All Giant Cell Phone & Loud Talk ... | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DQRWRJtIY5to | Nov 02 16:27 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - TRIGGERHAPPY(Ed Blaney) on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s ... | http://www.myspace.com/edblaney | Nov 02 16:27 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Poe - Trigger happy jack Lyrics | http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/p/poe3077/triggerhappyjack145485.html | Nov 02 16:27 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Poe - Hello lyrics | http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/p/poe/hello.html | Nov 02 16:27 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, They'll probably open a Microsoft store in Castleton, Indiana first | Nov 02 16:27 |
| wallc | DaemonFC, I had a good time there. | Nov 02 16:27 |
| schestowitz | Hilarious! | Nov 02 16:27 |
| DaemonFC | They'll open their first Microsoft Store in Indiana in Castleton, causethat's where the Apple store is | Nov 02 16:28 |
| ThistleWeb | trigger happy tv is funny in small doses, they just tried to expand it way beyond what the idea was really worth | Nov 02 16:28 |
| DaemonFC | yes, there's only one Apple store in Indiana | Nov 02 16:28 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Nov 02 16:28 |
| schestowitz | Why are shops the centre of culture in the US? :-) | Nov 02 16:28 |
| schestowitz | People socialise in malls, they say.. | Nov 02 16:28 |
| ThistleWeb | when it gets to be the same gags done to a lot of different peeps, the fun wears off | Nov 02 16:28 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Malls are dying out anyway | Nov 02 16:28 |
| wallc | I didn't go to the Apple store here, but I did visit the Sony Styles store downstairs from the MS store. | Nov 02 16:28 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: ebiz? | Nov 02 16:29 |
| schestowitz | Sony? Be careful | Nov 02 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | getting harder to compete with Walmart and online shopping | Nov 02 16:29 |
| DaemonFC | and get the margins they want, anyway | Nov 02 16:29 |
| schestowitz | Don't stand near devices with battieries | Nov 02 16:29 |
| wallc | The mall where the MS store is, is a very busy one. It was crowded. | Nov 02 16:29 |
| ThistleWeb | wallc: in 1900 freak shows were also real popular | Nov 02 16:29 |
| wallc | It's full of high-end retailers though, so the money is still there for them. | Nov 02 16:30 |
| wallc | I did leave the Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Mandriva, and Google Search sites open on several of the display computers... | Nov 02 16:30 |
| schestowitz | Why not the actual sites? | Nov 02 16:31 |
| wallc | I also commented to a sales girl that there seemed to only be upgrade boxes of Win7, but no full installs...she found a full install way down on the bottom shelf. | Nov 02 16:31 |
| schestowitz | Were they blacklisted? | Nov 02 16:31 |
| wallc | Then she assured me that an upgrade from XP was really easy to do...lol | Nov 02 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | mmmm, define "easy" | Nov 02 16:32 |
| schestowitz | It's not possible | Nov 02 16:32 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft says so | Nov 02 16:32 |
| schestowitz | !google no upgrade xp 7 | Nov 02 16:32 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - The XP-7 Upgrade Problem - WorldCAD Access | http://worldcadaccess.typepad.com/blog/2009/10/the-xp7-upgrade-problem.html | Nov 02 16:32 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Step-by-Step: Windows 7 Upgrade and Migration | http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd446674(WS.10).aspx | Nov 02 16:32 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Ways to Upgrade Windows XP & Vista to Window 7 | http://www.tothepc.com/archives/upgrade-windows-xp-vista-to-window7-os/ | Nov 02 16:32 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Amazon.com: Microsoft Windows 7: Software | http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-7-Software/b%3Fie%3DUTF8%26node%3D1286119011 | Nov 02 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | I formatted Vista off and clean installed 7 | Nov 02 16:32 |
| DaemonFC | I don't like upgrades, never have | Nov 02 16:32 |
| wallc | I did get two "BING" balls for free...lol | Nov 02 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | did you have to leave your balls there as a deposit? | Nov 02 16:33 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Nov 02 16:33 |
| wallc | I did explain to the sales girl that the upgrade path for XP doesn't sound as easy as she said. | Nov 02 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, They're only saying what they've been trained to | Nov 02 16:34 |
| ThistleWeb | they said xp needed wiped and a fresh install, there is no upgrade path | Nov 02 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | once they sell you the software and you open it and find out how EASY the upgrade is, it's illegal to return it | Nov 02 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | so they win | Nov 02 16:34 |
| wallc | I didn't want to cause hardship for the help, they were all very friendly. | Nov 02 16:34 |
| DaemonFC | 3-5 years later, you'll have forgotten, and will fall for it again | Nov 02 16:34 |
| schestowitz |  | Nov 02 16:35 |
| schestowitz | [16:33] <wallc> I did get two "BING" balls for free...lol | Nov 02 16:35 |
| schestowitz | That sounds so wrong | Nov 02 16:35 |
| ThistleWeb | they claimed vista was an easy upgrade even though it's proving not to be true | Nov 02 16:35 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, and.... | Nov 02 16:36 |
| schestowitz | They delayed release cause of it | Nov 02 16:36 |
| schestowitz | People might not remember, but Microsoft pulled off the RTM of Vista for 'quality' | Nov 02 16:36 |
| schestowitz | They said the upgrader was broken | Nov 02 16:36 |
| wallc | The part of the store that seemed less than happy was at the back, where the "Knowledge Center" (I forget what it's called) was. | Nov 02 16:36 |
| schestowitz | Well, it was broken even after another few weeks/month of work | Nov 02 16:36 |
| wallc | The help looked stressed, and there were lots of people in line there, none of them looked happy.... | Nov 02 16:37 |
| schestowitz | :-D | Nov 02 16:37 |
| schestowitz | That's why it's at the back | Nov 02 16:37 |
| schestowitz | Keep away from the display window | Nov 02 16:37 |
| schestowitz | It's always like that | Nov 02 16:37 |
| schestowitz | "Returns" | Nov 02 16:37 |
| schestowitz | Or "garage" | Nov 02 16:37 |
| schestowitz | "Loading bay" | Nov 02 16:37 |
| schestowitz | Always at the back | Nov 02 16:37 |
| schestowitz | It's the "corner of shame" | Nov 02 16:37 |
| schestowitz | In Ubuntu it's the "Mono corner" | Nov 02 16:38 |
| wallc | I was surprised by the sales help. Two of the women were my age, and one was quite plump. I had assumed the stores would only hire "pretty" mid30s aged kids. | Nov 02 16:38 |
| schestowitz | !google http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/18/ubuntu-free-speech-zones/ | Nov 02 16:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | wallc: how old are you? | Nov 02 16:39 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ubuntu Free Speech Zones « mono-nono .::. Size~: 112.26 KB | Nov 02 16:39 |
| schestowitz | !google microsoft stores require lifting | Nov 02 16:39 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Microsoft Watch - Games & Consumer - Microsoft Retail Stores Will ... | http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/games_consumer/microsoft_retail_stores_will_require_heavy_lifting.html | Nov 02 16:39 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Microsoft Retail Store Jobs Require Heavy Lifting - Software - IT ... | http://www.crn.com/software/219401092 | Nov 02 16:39 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Microsoft retail store jobs require heavy lifting - News - CRN ... | http://mobile.crn.com.au/Article.aspx%3FCIID%3D153752%26type%3DNews | Nov 02 16:39 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Microsoft Stores Will Only Hire You If You Can Lift 75 Pounds (MSFT) | http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-retail-store-associates-must-be-able-to-lift-75-pounds-2009-8 | Nov 02 16:39 |
| tenderfoot | you never ask a lady her age !! :) | Nov 02 16:39 |
| wallc | My birthday was last Friday, and since I have short-term memory loss, I can't remember which birthday it was :) | Nov 02 16:39 |
| tenderfoot | :) | Nov 02 16:39 |
| wallc | Let's put it this way, I still have an "I Like Ike" election button...and I'm the original owner. | Nov 02 16:40 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Apple #OSX may drop #Atom support, no one really cares http://ur1.ca/ez7r | Nov 02 16:40 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Mac OS X 10.6.2 rumored to block Atom support, foil netbook OS X booting .::. Size~: 81.86 KB | Nov 02 16:40 |
| wallc | I fit into the demographics of those folks for which Linux is too hard to use | Nov 02 16:41 |
| wallc | Plus, I still can't figure out what those free "Bing" balls are for... | Nov 02 16:42 |
| wallc | :) | Nov 02 16:42 |
| wallc | But they were free! | Nov 02 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, I've voted in every election since 2002 | Nov 02 16:42 |
| tenderfoot | stress balls ?? | Nov 02 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | only one Republican, and the rest of them hate him | Nov 02 16:42 |
| schestowitz | My grandma used to lie about her age | Nov 02 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | so I think I've done the best choices I could | Nov 02 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Nov 02 16:42 |
| wallc | I don't think grandmas lie, they just can't remember exactly... | Nov 02 16:43 |
| schestowitz | Nop | Nov 02 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, Lugar is probably the best Republican we could have in the Senate | Nov 02 16:43 |
| schestowitz | Unless you voted for someone like Kucinich you just voted how the 'adults' wanted you to | Nov 02 16:43 |
| DaemonFC | I say that because he's the only one I agree with more than half the time | Nov 02 16:44 |
| schestowitz | wallc: "nop" was to DaemonFC | Nov 02 16:44 |
| wallc | DaemonFC, my best friend is from Indiana. | Nov 02 16:44 |
| tenderfoot | "age could not weary them, nor the years condemn" | Nov 02 16:44 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Indiana is like Massachusetts meets Texas, wallc | Nov 02 16:45 |
| DaemonFC | on the fence over everything | Nov 02 16:45 |
| DaemonFC | you think the country is deadlocked now? Turn it over to Indiana | Nov 02 16:45 |
| DaemonFC | you'll see deadlocked | Nov 02 16:45 |
| wallc | i have yet to go anywhere with him that he doesn't meet someone from Indiana. I think half the state has moved to AZ | Nov 02 16:45 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, old people? | Nov 02 16:46 |
| wallc | He's from Brown County. | Nov 02 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | Arizona or Florida | Nov 02 16:46 |
| schestowitz | Don't they move to Florida? | Nov 02 16:46 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Nov 02 16:46 |
| schestowitz | beat me to it | Nov 02 16:46 |
| *ThistleWeb has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Nov 02 16:46 | |
| wallc | No, Daemon, not old people...lol... | Nov 02 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, Brown County is beautiful around this time of year | Nov 02 16:46 |
| schestowitz | Florida has very high foreclosures rate ATM | Nov 02 16:46 |
| wallc | how old is old, to you? | Nov 02 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | there's a state park down there | Nov 02 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | can't remember the name | Nov 02 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | I was like 7-8 years old last time we went | Nov 02 16:46 |
| wallc | I've been there, it's gorgeous | Nov 02 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | OK, Brown County State Park | Nov 02 16:47 |
| DaemonFC | that was easy | Nov 02 16:47 |
| wallc | lots of covered bridges in Indiana | Nov 02 16:47 |
| DaemonFC | southern Indiana maybe | Nov 02 16:47 |
| wallc | My friend's from Nashville, IN | Nov 02 16:47 |
| wallc | though he grew up in Indianapolis | Nov 02 16:48 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifty_Falls_State_Park | Nov 02 16:48 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Clifty Falls State Park - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 47.92 KB | Nov 02 16:48 |
| DaemonFC | see that if you can | Nov 02 16:48 |
| wallc | (Daemon, I'm afraid we've just highjacked the conversation) | Nov 02 16:49 |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 16:49 | |
| schestowitz | wallc: no | Nov 02 16:49 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, That's cause old people are easily tricked, if you want my opinion | Nov 02 16:49 |
| DaemonFC | some flyer comes in the mail and it's "Reverse Mortgage? Now I can get that Cadillac Car!" | Nov 02 16:49 |
| schestowitz | heh. Cadillacs vanity | Nov 02 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | "Fuck over the kids, NOTHING left for the grandkids.....just me and my Cadillac Car!" | Nov 02 16:50 |
| schestowitz | Isn't that a Florida thing? | Nov 02 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, My grandmother | Nov 02 16:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | I wish they'd quit calling it a reverse mortgage | Nov 02 16:50 |
| *DaemonFC facepalms | Nov 02 16:50 | |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: same with some older relatives | Nov 02 16:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | all you're doing is getting a home equity loan and the loaner has the option to take your house when you die | Nov 02 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | she's over her head in debt and just trying to keep her house til she dies or goes to the home | Nov 02 16:51 |
| schestowitz | Cadi and Condo | Nov 02 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | she's always spent like a drunken sailer | Nov 02 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | she makes over $50,000 a year and has Medicare for doing NOTHING all day | Nov 02 16:51 |
| schestowitz | Not her fault | Nov 02 16:51 |
| schestowitz | It's on TV | Nov 02 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | I wish I could be so lucky | Nov 02 16:51 |
| schestowitz | Get many credit cards, max em up | Nov 02 16:51 |
| schestowitz | Hmmmmm... this dude with 4760 followers in Twitter is proud to be in BN, apparently: http://twitter.com/stuartrcrawford/statuses/5361581512 | Nov 02 16:52 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Twitter / Stuart R. Crawford: Made it onto the "Boycott ... .::. Size~: 10.19 KB | Nov 02 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, I'd like to see her live on what I make | Nov 02 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, And I've never financed a damned thing | Nov 02 16:52 |
| schestowitz | Depends what you mean by "live" | Nov 02 16:52 |
| schestowitz | To some people live means live.. as in survive | Nov 02 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Don't buy anything you don't have the cash in your hand for | Nov 02 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | it's not a hard concept | Nov 02 16:52 |
| schestowitz | The media warped it using phrases like "living it up" or "man, you've got to start living!!11" | Nov 02 16:53 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving") | Nov 02 16:53 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, I have a home, I have good food, I have furniture, I have a 36" HDTV, and I have a decent car | Nov 02 16:53 |
| DaemonFC | and I've never gone and financed a thing | Nov 02 16:53 |
| DaemonFC | you can live without putting yourself in debt | Nov 02 16:53 |
| tenderfoot | do you own your home ? | Nov 02 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | tenderfoot, No. Most don't | Nov 02 16:54 |
| wallc | Well, I agree that there are a lot of goofy old farts in Florida, but I also can point out a large amount of youngsters (between 20 and 40) who do some extraordinarily stupid things, financially...so age isn't the key to being a dumbass. | Nov 02 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | paying on something for 50 years is just as bad as renting, worse even | Nov 02 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | It's not like I have any kids | Nov 02 16:55 |
| DaemonFC | I get to own the damned thing just in timeto die of old age? | Nov 02 16:55 |
| DaemonFC | pointless? | Nov 02 16:55 |
| tenderfoot | so renting, your probably paying off someone elses debt, but nothing wrong with that IMO. | Nov 02 16:55 |
| DaemonFC | tenderfoot, Why do I care what the landlord is financing? | Nov 02 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | He's loaded anyway | Nov 02 16:56 |
| tenderfoot | I dont, why would I care. | Nov 02 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think he's going anywhere | Nov 02 16:56 |
| schestowitz | Jason who used to hang out here in irc says: http://www.the-source.com/2009/11/attacks-on-gpl-suggest-it-is-winning/ "For the GPL and the FSF, the increasing vehemence of the attacks on it should signal that it’s doing something right. In fact, many “somethings” right." | Nov 02 16:57 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Attacks on GPL suggest it is winning .::. Size~: 14.6 KB | Nov 02 16:57 |
| DaemonFC | tenderfoot, If I get a house, I have to pay at least $500+ a month, I have to pay all my utilities (there goes another $100-150), I get to pay to have anything that breaks fixed | Nov 02 16:57 |
| wallc | DaemonFC, I had a 30 year mortgage once. Paid double payments whenever I could. The house was fully paid for in 1993. I consider it to have been the best investment I ever made. | Nov 02 16:57 |
| DaemonFC | If I rent this one bedroom, it's $440 a month, there's a maintenence guy, and utilities are included | Nov 02 16:57 |
| DaemonFC | I say I've got the better deal | Nov 02 16:58 |
| wallc | (I did make a lump sum payment at the end and paid it off a few years early) | Nov 02 16:58 |
| wallc | I now am the one that rents out the extra space. | Nov 02 16:58 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, If I live to be 55, I'll be impressed | Nov 02 16:58 |
| schestowitz | Why 55? | Nov 02 16:59 |
| schestowitz | Magic #? | Nov 02 16:59 |
| wallc | We all hope you live MUCH longer than that. | Nov 02 16:59 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, he said 30 years | Nov 02 16:59 |
| schestowitz | For me, it's not a matter of duration | Nov 02 17:00 |
| schestowitz | It's what you do throughout. It's not a duration race or rat race | Nov 02 17:00 |
| wallc | I just wish I could afford a lawn service...I hate trimmin' trees (but I do like having a chain saw!) :) | Nov 02 17:01 |
| fewa | in japan they give 100 year morgages | Nov 02 17:01 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: in 30 years Windows will have finally managed to gain 2% market share in HPC :-) | Nov 02 17:01 |
| schestowitz | The 80+ y-o will Gates will dance to it | Nov 02 17:01 |
| wallc | 2% market share is really all that Windows deserves to have | Nov 02 17:02 |
| schestowitz | wallc: that's too generous | Nov 02 17:02 |
| schestowitz | wallc: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2006/06/26/windows-hpc-failure/ | Nov 02 17:02 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: schestowitz.com » Blog Archive » Windows High-Perfrmance Computing Miserable Failure .::. Size~: 28.89 KB | Nov 02 17:02 |
| fewa | however those that issue morgages must take responsibility | Nov 02 17:03 |
| fewa | in the last decade in the US sellers have completely sold of their stake in the debt | Nov 02 17:03 |
| fewa | and taken their cut | Nov 02 17:03 |
| fewa | its all sold to the big banks | Nov 02 17:03 |
| wallc | fewa, I'm glad I never had to deal with the creepy types of lenders that have been around in recent years. | Nov 02 17:03 |
| fewa | which then with some magic formulas turn shit into gold | Nov 02 17:04 |
| fewa | and sell it as AAAA | Nov 02 17:04 |
| fewa | and then we all knows what fallows.... | Nov 02 17:04 |
| wallc | My first (and only) home mortgage was in 1973. | Nov 02 17:04 |
| wallc | There were very strict rules then | Nov 02 17:05 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, I just got a call from the school nurse | Nov 02 17:05 |
| tenderfoot | yea, they actually made sure you were capable of paying it | Nov 02 17:05 |
| DaemonFC | my brother stayed up til like after 1 AM last night playing XBOX | Nov 02 17:05 |
| fewa | yes, after the S&L crisis they decided that too regulation was bad.... | Nov 02 17:05 |
| DaemonFC | and now he's "tired" and wants to come home | Nov 02 17:05 |
| fewa | and that boom and busts were good | Nov 02 17:05 |
| DaemonFC | I told him he's staying at school and that he should think about these things when deciding when he's gonna go to bed | Nov 02 17:06 |
| DaemonFC | and I told the nurse that too, lol | Nov 02 17:06 |
| wallc | How old is your brother? | Nov 02 17:06 |
| DaemonFC | I thought he was hurt or something when the nurse called | Nov 02 17:06 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, 16 | Nov 02 17:06 |
| wallc | ahhh, that age is such fun...lol | Nov 02 17:06 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, I might just go over there and yank the cord on that XBOX | Nov 02 17:07 |
| DaemonFC | if he tries this again | Nov 02 17:07 |
| tenderfoot | tell him to man up, he's 16 !!! | Nov 02 17:07 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, My mom is in France for the week and he thinks I'll be a pushover | Nov 02 17:07 |
| DaemonFC | so he's testing me | Nov 02 17:07 |
| wallc | he should know you better than that, yes? | Nov 02 17:07 |
| wallc | :) | Nov 02 17:07 |
| DaemonFC | But I am in charge until she gets back, and he is not missing school over that damned XBOX | Nov 02 17:07 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, I asked the nurse if he was throwing up or feverish, she said no | Nov 02 17:08 |
| DaemonFC | so I told her that he needs to stay at school unelss there's a serious problem | Nov 02 17:08 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Nov 02 17:08 |
| schestowitz | http://maketecheasier.com/lancelot-an-alternative-kde-menu/2009/10/26 "Just discovered your writings today from a link from boycottnovell.com (which has the best Linux links anywhere)." | Nov 02 17:08 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Lancelot: An Alternative KDE Menu Make Tech Easier .::. Size~: 52.84 KB | Nov 02 17:08 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, He got the swine flu vaccine last week, so I know that can't be it | Nov 02 17:09 |
| wallc | BN DOES have the best Linux links! | Nov 02 17:09 |
| DaemonFC | I took him to the doctor and told them to give him that and the seasonal flu shot | Nov 02 17:09 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Nov 02 17:09 |
| DaemonFC | that was last Monday | Nov 02 17:09 |
| DaemonFC | he was not happy about that, but I told him tough shit | Nov 02 17:09 |
| DaemonFC | then he didn't even feel the shots | Nov 02 17:10 |
| DaemonFC | he's a weenie | Nov 02 17:10 |
| wallc | From my experience, 16 year-olds are rarely happy about anything | Nov 02 17:10 |
| schestowitz | Seeing their teachers humiliated | Nov 02 17:10 |
| schestowitz | I was actually defending the teachers at that age | Nov 02 17:10 |
| wallc | :) Yes, that makes them happy | Nov 02 17:10 |
| schestowitz | To be scolded by the idiots... | Nov 02 17:10 |
| DaemonFC | wallc, I happen to think I'd make a good parent, but the people who reproduce most tend to be the ones that shouldn't be doing it at all | Nov 02 17:11 |
| DaemonFC | ho hum | Nov 02 17:11 |
| wallc | DaemonFC, I have friends who have never had children of their own, but they've done a lot of truly wonderful things for children in general. I consider then to be good "parents" | Nov 02 17:13 |
| wallc | *them* | Nov 02 17:14 |
| schestowitz | *cough cough*.. | Nov 02 17:14 |
| schestowitz | How's cday doing? | Nov 02 17:14 |
| wallc | She's busy building a house and living in the mountains...seems happy, so far. | Nov 02 17:15 |
| wallc | time will tell... | Nov 02 17:16 |
| *wallc has quit ("Page closed") | Nov 02 17:17 | |
| *PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Nov 02 17:19 | |
| DaemonFC | I have too much time on my hands | Nov 02 17:27 |
| DaemonFC | I'm playing DOOM on an ipod | Nov 02 17:27 |
| schestowitz |  | Nov 02 17:29 |
| schestowitz | [17:27] <DaemonFC> I have too much time on my hands | Nov 02 17:29 |
| schestowitz | Literally then | Nov 02 17:29 |
| schestowitz | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/11/02/yahoo-signs-mobile-search-deal-with-o2-germany | Nov 02 17:29 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Yahoo Signs Mobile Search Deal With O2 Germany | WebProNews .::. Size~: 32.22 KB | Nov 02 17:29 |
| DaemonFC | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/42/Ghostbusters_Doom.png | Nov 02 17:30 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/png type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 02 17:30 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | Nov 02 17:30 |
| schestowitz | http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/general-political-discussion/81089-you-ready-next-crisis.html | Nov 02 17:30 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Are YOU Ready for the Next Crisis? .::. Size~: 90.91 KB | Nov 02 17:30 |
| schestowitz | Here we go again.... | Nov 02 17:30 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000TFXA0I/ref=asc_df_B000TFXA0I952693?tag=lastfm-20&creative=380333&creativeASIN=B000TFXA0I&linkCode=asn | Nov 02 17:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Amazon.com: Spilled Milk: Sean Rouse: Music .::. Size~: 447.63 KB | Nov 02 17:32 |
| schestowitz | http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-and-morgan-stanley-cannot-afford-to-remain-silent-on-galleon-charges-2009-10 "Late last night the Financial Times broke the news that the hedge fund firm Galleon Group paid $250 million to its Wall Street banks last year in return for received market information that other investors did not get." | Nov 02 17:34 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Goldman Sachs And Morgan Stanley Cannot Afford To Remain Silent On Galleon Charges .::. Size~: 76.47 KB | Nov 02 17:34 |
| schestowitz | http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/02/government-sachs-goldmans_n_210561.html | Nov 02 17:38 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Government Sachs: Goldman's Close Ties To Washington Arouse Envy, Raise Questions .::. Size~: 199.12 KB | Nov 02 17:38 |
| *Omar87 (n=quassel@86.108.32.119) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 17:46 | |
| schestowitz | Hey, Omar87 | Nov 02 17:50 |
| schestowitz | How's quassel? | Nov 02 17:50 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Hi | Nov 02 17:50 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: incredible. :) | Nov 02 17:50 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: for example, when you hover over a hyperlink, a small square pops up showing you the a page! :D | Nov 02 17:52 |
| Omar87 | the page* | Nov 02 17:52 |
| schestowitz | Ahh.. | Nov 02 17:52 |
| schestowitz | I remember thinking about it around 2004.... | Nov 02 17:53 |
| schestowitz | Wrote this down........ | Nov 02 17:53 |
| schestowitz | But it's rather obvious as an idea, nothing too novel | Nov 02 17:53 |
| schestowitz | KDE4 has some nice things in Plasma | Nov 02 17:54 |
| schestowitz | V7 copied parts of Plasma | Nov 02 17:54 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: yeah. | Nov 02 17:54 |
| schestowitz | Like the way windows previews hover and change | Nov 02 17:54 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: a lot of them. | Nov 02 17:54 |
| schestowitz | Plasma lacks some features though, like UAC | Nov 02 17:54 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/02/microsoft_security_report/ | Nov 02 17:55 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft security report shows worms are returning • The Register .::. Size~: 29.34 KB | Nov 02 17:55 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Interesting: Chronically ill people 'happier if they abandon hope', say docs http://ping.fm/wtW2X | Nov 02 17:57 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Chronically ill people 'happier if they abandon hope', say docs • The Register .::. Size~: 26.63 KB | Nov 02 17:57 |
| tenderfoot | anyone seen the doco "web warriors" ?? it's mainly about the blaster worm | Nov 02 17:58 |
| tenderfoot | quite interesting, | Nov 02 17:58 |
| schestowitz | why are you still here, mutex? | Nov 02 17:59 |
| schestowitz | People complain about your presence here | Nov 02 17:59 |
| tenderfoot | peoplecomplain about alot of things here. | Nov 02 17:59 |
| schestowitz | You shill for interests opposite to BN's | Nov 02 17:59 |
| tenderfoot | where ? | Nov 02 17:59 |
| schestowitz | You have already been banned and you cursed and abuse | Nov 02 17:59 |
| tenderfoot | that doco, is very good AGAINST WINDOWS. | Nov 02 17:59 |
| tenderfoot | but up to you i guess. | Nov 02 18:00 |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Nov 02 18:00 | |
| schestowitz | Enjoy Windows and swpats | Nov 02 18:00 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on tenderfoot!*@* | Nov 02 18:00 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked tenderfoot from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:00 | |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz | Nov 02 18:00 | |
| *docmartin (n=sondy@CPE-58-168-62-66.lns9.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:00 | |
| *ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz | Nov 02 18:01 | |
| *schestowitz sets ban on docmartin!*@* | Nov 02 18:01 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked docmartin from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:01 | |
| *nickss (n=sondy@CPE-121-216-114-219.lnse2.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:05 | |
| nickss | why are you baning me, dont you think you can convert me or is it something else you dont like, like that I check your "facts", I would really like to know.. you seem very scared of me... :) why is that ?? | Nov 02 18:06 |
| nickss | why so scared of little ol me ? | Nov 02 18:06 |
| schestowitz | [17:18] <schestowitz> > Someone mentions a Turing machine and instead of talking about Bilski | Nov 02 18:07 |
| schestowitz | [17:18] <schestowitz> > the IRC chan goes off on the meaning of infinity. Is this a case of | Nov 02 18:07 |
| schestowitz | [17:18] <schestowitz> > channel hijacking or is it just me paranioa ??? | Nov 02 18:07 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on nickss!*@* | Nov 02 18:07 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked nickss from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:07 | |
| *nicksss (n=sondy@CPE-121-216-114-219.lnse2.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:07 | |
| schestowitz | That's from an E-mail | Nov 02 18:07 |
| nicksss | really and everything you say is "on topic ".. ?? | Nov 02 18:07 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on nicksss!*@* | Nov 02 18:07 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked nicksss from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:07 | |
| *nickds (n=sondy@CPE-121-216-114-219.lnse2.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:08 | |
| *schestowitz sets ban on nickds!*@* | Nov 02 18:08 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked nickds from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:08 | |
| *schestowitz sets mode +i #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:08 | |
| schestowitz | " channel hijacking or is it just me paranioa ???" --someone who read the IRC logs | Nov 02 18:09 |
| schestowitz | People do notice | Nov 02 18:09 |
| schestowitz | For the record, mutex attacked me personally with libel and sexual vulgar insults | Nov 02 18:09 |
| schestowitz | Looking to seed this channel with venom and dirt | Nov 02 18:10 |
| *schestowitz sets mode -i #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:10 | |
| *nickdedd (n=sondy@CPE-58-167-87-124.lnse5.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:10 | |
| *schestowitz sets ban on nickdedd!*@* | Nov 02 18:10 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked nickdedd from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:10 | |
| *nickdeddd (n=sondy@CPE-58-167-87-124.lnse5.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:10 | |
| *Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?") | Nov 02 18:10 | |
| nickdeddd | I know you're scared, but I can understand that, there is nothing to be scared of if you speak the truth :) | Nov 02 18:10 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on nickdeddd!*@* | Nov 02 18:10 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked nickdeddd from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:10 | |
| *schestowitz sets mode +i #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:10 | |
| schestowitz | The little shill is ruining the channel either way, leading to people being marked as banned when trying to access the channel | Nov 02 18:11 |
| *#boycottnovell :You need to be a channel operator to do that | Nov 02 18:13 | |
| fewa | DaemonFC, you might be interested: http://www.democracynow.org/2009/11/2/shannon_brownlee_does_the_vaccine_matter | Nov 02 18:13 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Shannon Brownlee: Does the Vaccine Matter? .::. Size~: 29.53 KB | Nov 02 18:13 |
| *schestowitz sets mode -i #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:13 | |
| *ywn (n=sondy@CPE-58-167-87-124.lnse5.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:14 | |
| *schestowitz sets ban on ywn!*@* | Nov 02 18:14 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked ywn from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:14 | |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to fewa | Nov 02 18:14 | |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to schestowitz_log | Nov 02 18:14 | |
| fewa | ban the ips | Nov 02 18:15 |
| fewa | or the range | Nov 02 18:15 |
| fewa | ?? | Nov 02 18:15 |
| schestowitz | He uses other ones | Nov 02 18:15 |
| schestowitz | I also don't know the konversation gui so well | Nov 02 18:15 |
| fewa | odesnt freenode block proxies? | Nov 02 18:15 |
| schestowitz | So I added xchat | Nov 02 18:15 |
| schestowitz | fewa: only mibbit | Nov 02 18:15 |
| schestowitz | Cause of trolls ! | Nov 02 18:15 |
| schestowitz | But now they make another gateway | Nov 02 18:15 |
| *ywnddss (n=sondy@58.165.177.150) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:15 | |
| ywnddss | does not make you look very good Roy, if you show such fear from someone like me, do I pose that much of a threat to you ???? | Nov 02 18:15 |
| fewa | mibbit actually forwards ip addresses | Nov 02 18:15 |
| ywnddss | ?? | Nov 02 18:16 |
| fewa | it just needs to be | Nov 02 18:16 |
| ywnddss | why so scared again ?? | Nov 02 18:16 |
| *fewa sets ban on *!*n=sondy@58.165.177.* | Nov 02 18:16 | |
| *fewa has kicked ywnddss from #boycottnovell (fewa) | Nov 02 18:16 | |
| *fewa sets ban on *!*n=*@58.165.177.* | Nov 02 18:16 | |
| *fewa removes ban on *!*n=sondy@58.165.177.* | Nov 02 18:16 | |
| schestowitz | I guess one could ask freenode to also ban from their relay | Nov 02 18:16 |
| schestowitz | They make a mibbit-like relay available | Nov 02 18:17 |
| fewa | maybe you can put a wait period | Nov 02 18:17 |
| schestowitz | And they control it, so they can block trolls at their lebel | Nov 02 18:17 |
| fewa | you can join but only talk after ~30 seconds | Nov 02 18:17 |
| schestowitz | Either way, the trolls get their way if there is disruption | Nov 02 18:17 |
| schestowitz | And he'll be baack | Nov 02 18:17 |
| schestowitz | He's been vehemently attacking for almost half a year, or shilling | Nov 02 18:17 |
| *ywnddsdas (n=sondy@CPE-124-187-150-182.lns17.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:18 | |
| ywnddsdas | does not make you look very good Roy, if you show such fear from someone like me, do I pose that much of a threat to you ???? it's funny in a sad kind of way.. your reaction to someone who does not think you are a demi-god :) | Nov 02 18:18 |
| *fewa sets ban on *!*n=sondy@*.lns17.ken.bigpond.net.au | Nov 02 18:18 | |
| *fewa has kicked ywnddsdas from #boycottnovell (fewa) | Nov 02 18:18 | |
| schestowitz | It's a Windows user masquerading as a Linux guy and pushing it against BN | Nov 02 18:18 |
| schestowitz | /. has those too | Nov 02 18:18 |
| schestowitz | They have bullied FOSS advocates and smeared me there too | Nov 02 18:18 |
| schestowitz | The funny ones have names like "Gentoo user" | Nov 02 18:19 |
| *fewa sets mode +m #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:19 | |
| fewa | who can speek now? | Nov 02 18:19 |
| schestowitz | But they are WIndows people | Nov 02 18:19 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/19/troll-linux-identity-deception/ | Nov 02 18:19 |
| fewa | can non-ops speak? | Nov 02 18:19 |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitz_log | Nov 02 18:19 | |
| *ywnddsdas (n=sondy@CPE-121-216-14-179.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:19 | |
| *fewa removes voice from ywnddsdas | Nov 02 18:20 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked ywnddsdas from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:20 | |
| schestowitz_log | test | Nov 02 18:20 |
| *#boycottnovell :Cannot send to channel | Nov 02 18:20 | |
| schestowitz | Non-ops can't talk | Nov 02 18:20 |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to amarsh04_ | Nov 02 18:20 | |
| *really_ (n=sondy@CPE-121-216-14-179.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:20 | |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to jono | Nov 02 18:20 | |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to Omar87 | Nov 02 18:20 | |
| schestowitz | We could give regulars ops so that they can talk | Nov 02 18:21 |
| schestowitz | It will isolate the troll | Nov 02 18:21 |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to BRBT_ | Nov 02 18:21 | |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to Aondo | Nov 02 18:21 | |
| fewa | +v | Nov 02 18:21 |
| fewa | voice | Nov 02 18:21 |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to tessier | Nov 02 18:21 | |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to trmanco | Nov 02 18:21 | |
| *fewa gives voice to [H]omer amarsh04_ Aondo benJIman | Nov 02 18:21 | |
| *fewa gives voice to BNc BNi BRBT_ ChanServ | Nov 02 18:21 | |
| *fewa gives voice to cubezzz DaemonFC desu fewa | Nov 02 18:21 | |
| *fewa gives voice to jmpnop jono logger_bot magentar | Nov 02 18:21 | |
| *fewa gives voice to MinceR Omar87 phIRCe-local Python1320 | Nov 02 18:21 | |
| *fewa gives voice to really_ schestowitz schestowitz_log sebsebseb | Nov 02 18:21 | |
| *fewa gives voice to tessier trmanco zoobab | Nov 02 18:21 | |
| schestowitz | Ah, OK | Nov 02 18:21 |
| schestowitz | Last time, mutex used his nicks to curse | Nov 02 18:22 |
| schestowitz | Lots of names that are vulgar insults | Nov 02 18:22 |
| really_ | when ?? | Nov 02 18:22 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on really_!*@* | Nov 02 18:22 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked really_ from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:22 | |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Nov 02 18:23 |
| schestowitz | You gave voice to mutex nym | Nov 02 18:23 |
| *really__ (n=sondy@CPE-58-168-26-185.lns5.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:23 | |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from amarsh04_ BRBT_ jono | Nov 02 18:26 | |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from Omar87 tessier trmanco | Nov 02 18:26 | |
| *schestowitz removes channel operator status from Aondo | Nov 02 18:26 | |
| *armond (i=c096b146@gateway/web/freenode/x-77d3e8e48306b6ed) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:27 | |
| *armond has quit (Client Quit) | Nov 02 18:27 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked really__ from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:28 | |
| *really_2 (n=sondy@CPE-58-168-26-185.lns5.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:29 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked really_2 from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:29 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.zimguardian.com/?p=1322 | Nov 02 18:29 |
| *really_2 (n=sondy@CPE-58-168-26-185.lns5.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:29 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked really_2 from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:31 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/2009/10/ubuntu-910-karmic-koala-released.html | Nov 02 18:31 |
| *whysoScared (n=sondy@CPE-58-168-26-185.lns5.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:31 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Northwest Progressive Institute Advocate: Ubuntu 9.10 "Karmic Koala" released .::. Size~: 22.05 KB | Nov 02 18:31 |
| *schestowitz has kicked whysoScared from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:31 | |
| *noReallyWhy (n=sondy@CPE-58-168-26-185.lns5.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:31 | |
| trmanco | wtf | Nov 02 18:31 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@CPE-58-168-26-185.lns5.cht.bigpond.net.au | Nov 02 18:31 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked noReallyWhy from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Nov 02 18:31 | |
| schestowitz | the shill that sits here 24/7 is back to it | Nov 02 18:32 |
| schestowitz | He was silent for a while but also kept here under various nyms | Nov 02 18:32 |
| schestowitz | He kept quiet knowing that his ISP was not enough to identify him | Nov 02 18:32 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/story.aspx?id=370969 | Nov 02 18:33 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-158-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:34 | |
| *lis` (n=lis@pub212004091247.dh-hfc.datazug.ch) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:34 | |
| *schestowitz gives voice to _Hicham_ | Nov 02 18:34 | |
| *schestowitz gives voice to lis` | Nov 02 18:34 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : was there any troll in here ? | Nov 02 18:34 |
| schestowitz | Hey, _Hicham_ | Nov 02 18:34 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, mutex | Nov 02 18:35 |
| _Hicham_ | hi schestowitz | Nov 02 18:35 |
| schestowitz | He is always here | Nov 02 18:35 |
| _Hicham_ | again ? | Nov 02 18:35 |
| schestowitz | But he started doing his nonesense again, not just stalking | Nov 02 18:35 |
| schestowitz | And people mailed me with complaints | Nov 02 18:35 |
| schestowitz | Anyway, what's new? | Nov 02 18:36 |
| _Hicham_ | this guy needs a shrink | Nov 02 18:36 |
| schestowitz | Seems like a slow new day | Nov 02 18:36 |
| *why_scared_ (n=sondy@CPE-58-168-41-17.lns7.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:36 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked why_scared_ from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:36 | |
| schestowitz | He swaps IPs | Nov 02 18:36 |
| _Hicham_ | do u think that skype might become open source ? | Nov 02 18:36 |
| *why_scared (n=sondy@CPE-58-168-41-17.lns7.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:36 | |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@CPE-58-168-41-17.lns7.cht.bigpond.net.au | Nov 02 18:36 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked why_scared from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Nov 02 18:37 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: oh, that | Nov 02 18:37 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, I saw the post | Nov 02 18:37 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: not likely | Nov 02 18:37 |
| schestowitz | !google glyn moody skype why open source | Nov 02 18:37 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Glyn Moody (glynmoody) on Twitter | http://twitter.com/GLYNMOODY | Nov 02 18:37 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Why eBay Should Open-Source Skype | Linux Journal | http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/why-ebay-should-open-source-skype | Nov 02 18:37 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - open...: Open Source Skype Scuppered | http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2008/07/open-source-skype-scuppered.html | Nov 02 18:37 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Notices tagged with opensource - Brainbird | http://brainbird.net/tag/opensource | Nov 02 18:37 |
| schestowitz | See [3] | Nov 02 18:37 |
| schestowitz | Although [2] is good also | Nov 02 18:37 |
| *why_scared_ (n=sondy@CPE-121-217-15-117.lnse1.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:37 | |
| _Hicham_ | I am not talking about that post | Nov 02 18:37 |
| schestowitz | He basically explains why it won't become FOSS | Nov 02 18:37 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@CPE-121-217-15-117.lnse1.cht.bigpond.net.au | Nov 02 18:37 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked why_scared_ from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Nov 02 18:38 | |
| *Lns (n=lns@pdpc/supporter/professional/lns) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:38 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: it would not be good if it had, maybe | Nov 02 18:38 |
| _Hicham_ | there is another interesting post, from a mandriva developer | Nov 02 18:38 |
| schestowitz | Cause that would just help it gain at the expense of other FOSS | Nov 02 18:38 |
| schestowitz | That's what SFLC said when Hula came to Linux | Nov 02 18:38 |
| *UrFearIsFunny (n=sondy@CPE-58-168-59-186.lns9.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:38 | |
| schestowitz | Although it came only in binary form | Nov 02 18:38 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@CPE-58-168-59-186.lns9.cht.bigpond.net.au | Nov 02 18:38 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked UrFearIsFunny from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Nov 02 18:38 | |
| _Hicham_ | binaries are not really welcome in linux | Nov 02 18:39 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't welcome them | Nov 02 18:39 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, it was French | Nov 02 18:39 |
| schestowitz | My brother told me his friend uses Mandriva | Nov 02 18:39 |
| schestowitz | I gave him a Mandriva CD also | Nov 02 18:39 |
| schestowitz | 2008.1 | Nov 02 18:39 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Nov 02 18:39 |
| schestowitz | 2010.0 is out soon | Nov 02 18:39 |
| _Hicham_ | aren't u ashame of giving an old version ? | Nov 02 18:39 |
| schestowitz | Should be a solid kde 4.3 release | Nov 02 18:39 |
| _Hicham_ | what if it fails to detect his hardware ? | Nov 02 18:39 |
| _Hicham_ | he would hate it | Nov 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: that's what I had, other than what I was using (PCLOS 09) | Nov 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: all h/w detected OK | Nov 02 18:40 |
| _Hicham_ | great | Nov 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | Turns out many people use Linux | Nov 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | More than I imagined | Nov 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | BUT.... | Nov 02 18:40 |
| _Hicham_ | but they need help | Nov 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | They pass CDs around | Nov 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | That too | Nov 02 18:40 |
| schestowitz | Help comes with net effect | Nov 02 18:40 |
| *ManUpRoy (n=sondy@CPE-58-164-14-224.lnse5.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:41 | |
| schestowitz | With network effect you have people passing knowledge around | Nov 02 18:41 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@CPE-58-164-14-224.lnse5.ken.bigpond.net.au | Nov 02 18:41 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked ManUpRoy from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Nov 02 18:41 | |
| *schestowitz gives voice to Lns | Nov 02 18:41 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : why not ban *.bigbond.net.au for the moment ? | Nov 02 18:42 |
| schestowitz | http://www.artistticket.com/link/?s=imogen+heap | Nov 02 18:42 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: ArtistTicket.com .::. Size~: 0.69 KB | Nov 02 18:42 |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to _Hicham_ | Nov 02 18:42 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I'm new to this GUI | Nov 02 18:42 |
| _Hicham_ | what are u using ? | Nov 02 18:43 |
| schestowitz | Konversation | Nov 02 18:43 |
| schestowitz | I used xchat for a long time | Nov 02 18:43 |
| *YourFunnyRoy (n=sondy@CPE-58-165-144-35.lns4.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:43 | |
| schestowitz | It had options I was familiar with | Nov 02 18:43 |
| schestowitz | Forrester plays for RIAA: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/illegal-downloaders-spend-the-most-on-music-says-poll-1812776.html | Nov 02 18:44 |
| schestowitz | "Eating a diet high in processed food increases the risk of depression, research suggests." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8334353.stm | Nov 02 18:44 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 79.26 KB | Nov 02 18:44 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!n=sondy@*.lns4.cht.bigpond.net.au | Nov 02 18:45 | |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@*.lns4.cht.bigpond.net.au | Nov 02 18:45 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked YourFunnyRoy from #boycottnovell (schestowitz) | Nov 02 18:45 | |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@*.cht.bigpond.net.au. | Nov 02 18:46 | |
| schestowitz | http://nat.org/blog/2009/10/startup-visa/ | Nov 02 18:46 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Startup Visa · Nat Friedman .::. Size~: 65.29 KB | Nov 02 18:46 |
| schestowitz | "In 1999, when Miguel de Icaza and I founded Ximian, one of the first challenges we faced was getting a visa for Miguel so he could come to the US from Mexico." | Nov 02 18:46 |
| *Kick_Me_I_Win (n=sondy@CPE-121-216-23-251.lnse1.ken.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:47 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markeaston/ | Nov 02 18:47 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC - Mark Easton's UK .::. Size~: 63.58 KB | Nov 02 18:47 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@*.bigpond.net.au. | Nov 02 18:48 | |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@*.bigpond.net.au | Nov 02 18:48 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked Kick_Me_I_Win from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 18:48 | |
| schestowitz | He'd start relays now I guess | Nov 02 18:48 |
| schestowitz | Then we'd need freenode to block him | Nov 02 18:48 |
| schestowitz | http://blog.thesilentnumber.me/2009/09/top-things-to-do-after-installing.html | Nov 02 18:49 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Silent Number: Top things to do after installing Ubuntu Linux 9.10 Karmic Koala .::. Size~: 279.66 KB | Nov 02 18:49 |
| schestowitz | Cute: http://mmmeow.com/ | Nov 02 18:50 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: mmmeow: Recent Activity .::. Size~: 73.94 KB | Nov 02 18:50 |
| *fewa sets mode +r #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:56 | |
| *fewa sets mode -m #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:56 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : this post recommends gnome-do | Nov 02 18:56 |
| _Hicham_ | there is an alternative to gnome-do called kupfer | Nov 02 18:57 |
| _Hicham_ | it is still new | Nov 02 18:57 |
| *fewa sets mode +R #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:57 | |
| *fewa sets mode -r #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:57 | |
| _Hicham_ | http://kaizer.se/wiki/kupfer/ | Nov 02 18:57 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: kupfer, smart, quick launcher .::. Size~: 9.76 KB | Nov 02 18:57 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: it's KDE though | Nov 02 18:58 |
| _Hicham_ | no, it is gnome | Nov 02 18:58 |
| schestowitz | fewa: I will need to remember that unban pigpond. I think regulars like oiaohm use it | Nov 02 18:58 |
| _Hicham_ | I was thinking of maintaining it in fedora, but I prefer to let it mature | Nov 02 18:58 |
| schestowitz | I'm shocked that bigpond allow so much IP hopping. They harbour trolling this wauy | Nov 02 18:59 |
| *gargoyle-grin (n=randerso@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 18:59 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, some posts have mono apps listed in them | Nov 02 18:59 |
| schestowitz | But you can't just throw away the whole post cause of it | Nov 02 18:59 |
| _Hicham_ | I agree | Nov 02 19:00 |
| _Hicham_ | http://hicham.iblogger.org/2009/11/02/customizing-seamonkey-2.0 | Nov 02 19:00 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 02 19:00 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: many *buntooers don't know what mono really is | Nov 02 19:01 |
| _Hicham_ | thanks to god that Fedora people do | Nov 02 19:01 |
| schestowitz | They recognise app names. Novell can rely on this ignorance | Nov 02 19:01 |
| _Hicham_ | hopefully that RedHat-Legal will ban mono from Fedora | Nov 02 19:02 |
| fewa | I don't think it should be banned | Nov 02 19:02 |
| fewa | ie, removed from the repos | Nov 02 19:02 |
| fewa | just not installed by default | Nov 02 19:02 |
| _Hicham_ | Rahul Sundaram is really anxious about mono in Fedora | Nov 02 19:02 |
| _Hicham_ | fewa : why ? | Nov 02 19:02 |
| fewa | that is RMS's position | Nov 02 19:02 |
| _Hicham_ | I prefer to remove it completely | Nov 02 19:03 |
| fewa | also there should be a push for a clearer legal position | Nov 02 19:03 |
| _Hicham_ | and make it hard to get | Nov 02 19:03 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe put it in rpmfusion | Nov 02 19:03 |
| fewa | but software patents affect all software | Nov 02 19:03 |
| _Hicham_ | moonlight is forbidden even from rpmfusion | Nov 02 19:03 |
| fewa | well its a POS | Nov 02 19:04 |
| *schestowitz gives voice to gargoyle-grin | Nov 02 19:04 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: right | Nov 02 19:04 |
| schestowitz | If it's not in the normal repos, then no problemo | Nov 02 19:05 |
| schestowitz | The vendor is then off the hook in a way | Nov 02 19:05 |
| *BuzzLightyear (i=3ce5b410@gateway/web/freenode/x-c6bd700a255856d8) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 19:05 | |
| schestowitz | Like Allison suggested | Nov 02 19:05 |
| schestowitz | The issue is this: | Nov 02 19:05 |
| schestowitz | People get addicted to these apps | Nov 02 19:05 |
| schestowitz | ANd then turn to distros to have it by default or i the repos | Nov 02 19:06 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!3ce*@gateway* | Nov 02 19:07 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked BuzzLightyear from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 19:07 | |
| _Hicham_ | it should be marked non-free | Nov 02 19:07 |
| *whatFun (i=3aa58f54@gateway/web/freenode/x-ac4cbdadca64e34b) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 19:07 | |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!3aa*@gateway* | Nov 02 19:08 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked whatFun from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 19:08 | |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: but technically it's not true | Nov 02 19:08 |
| schestowitz | [H]omer called it "poisonware" | Nov 02 19:08 |
| fewa | software patents are poison | Nov 02 19:08 |
| *drivelss (n=sady@58.165.143.84) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 19:09 | |
| _Hicham_ | sooner or later, it will depend on proprietary components | Nov 02 19:09 |
| _Hicham_ | to give more compat with .NET | Nov 02 19:09 |
| schestowitz | http://www.examiner.com/x-27850-Virginia-Beach-Web-20-Examiner~y2009m10d30-Ubuntu-910-has-arrived | Nov 02 19:09 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Virginia Beach Web 2.0 Examiner .::. Size~: 64.07 KB | Nov 02 19:09 |
| _Hicham_ | MS of course won't stick to ECMA spec | Nov 02 19:09 |
| _Hicham_ | and Novell must follow | Nov 02 19:10 |
| *schestowitz sets ban on *!*@58.165* | Nov 02 19:10 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked drivelss from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 19:10 | |
| *tadpole (i=3aa58f54@gateway/web/freenode/x-1c1912e68958734c) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 19:11 | |
| *_Hicham_ has kicked tadpole from #boycottnovell (_Hicham_) | Nov 02 19:11 | |
| fewa | ahh *!3aa*@gateway* | Nov 02 19:11 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/181172/microsoft_security_intelligence_report_provides_valuable_insight.html | Nov 02 19:11 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | Nov 02 19:11 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Security Intelligence Report Provides Valuable Insight - Business Center - PC World .::. Size~: 38.02 KB | Nov 02 19:11 |
| *fewa sets ban on *!*3aa*@gateway* | Nov 02 19:11 | |
| MinceR | that's a little broader than intended :> | Nov 02 19:11 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes, they already do | Nov 02 19:11 |
| schestowitz | banshee for example | Nov 02 19:11 |
| MinceR | in any case, telstra/bigpond has multiple netblocks | Nov 02 19:11 |
| _Hicham_ | I hope that it will depend on Windows.Forms | Nov 02 19:12 |
| schestowitz | It uses the stuff which Microsoft EXPLICITLY said was not covered by the MCP | Nov 02 19:12 |
| _Hicham_ | so that it can be removed easily from Fedora | Nov 02 19:12 |
| *fewa removes ban on *!*3aa*@gateway* | Nov 02 19:12 | |
| *schestowitz gives channel operator status to MinceR | Nov 02 19:12 | |
| MinceR | use ?=3aa* | Nov 02 19:12 |
| MinceR | thx | Nov 02 19:12 |
| *Ohdear (i=79d97043@gateway/web/freenode/x-682341f4f3f6f6a4) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 19:12 | |
| schestowitz | Have a go at it | Nov 02 19:12 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: does it not already? | Nov 02 19:13 |
| schestowitz | Fedora should ban banshee | Nov 02 19:13 |
| _Hicham_ | no, not already | Nov 02 19:13 |
| *MinceR sets ban on *!*@gateway/web/* | Nov 02 19:13 | |
| schestowitz | It's a confirmed trap | Nov 02 19:13 |
| *MinceR has kicked Ohdear from #boycottnovell (ban evasion) | Nov 02 19:13 | |
| trmanco | lol | Nov 02 19:13 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no Windows.Forms in Fedora | Nov 02 19:13 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: Banshee does not deny it | Nov 02 19:13 |
| schestowitz | The ConspiracyOfSilence | Nov 02 19:14 |
| MinceR | i wonder if identifying and cloaks work from the web gateway | Nov 02 19:14 |
| MinceR | they should | Nov 02 19:14 |
| _Hicham_ | ok, I will try installing banshee and see the dependencies | Nov 02 19:14 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I have. | Nov 02 19:14 |
| MinceR | then we could keep that ban :> | Nov 02 19:14 |
| schestowitz | Someone has | Nov 02 19:14 |
| schestowitz | And I published results.. | Nov 02 19:14 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/11/snow-leopard-update-blocks-intel-atom-kills-hackintoshes/ | Nov 02 19:14 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Snow Leopard Update Blocks Intel Atom, Kills Hackintoshes | Gadget Lab | Wired.com .::. Size~: 114.74 KB | Nov 02 19:14 |
| schestowitz | !google banshee winform | Nov 02 19:14 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - In Fedora, Tomboy and Banshee Depend on Winforms | Boycott Novell | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/12/mono-and-moonlight-winforms/ | Nov 02 19:14 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Banshee UI to be in Moonlight « mono-nono | http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/14/banshee-ui-to-be-in-moonlight/ | Nov 02 19:14 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Gui Toolkits - Mono | http://www.mono-project.com/Gui_Toolkits | Nov 02 19:14 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - REQ*** Banshee Instead Of Rhythmbox [Archive] - Ubuntu Forums | http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-77273.html | Nov 02 19:14 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: The Leopard really took a poop on this one, didn't that animal...? | Nov 02 19:15 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, typical Apple behaviour | Nov 02 19:16 |
| DaemonFC | I'd like to see why anyone would go out of their way to use OS X | Nov 02 19:16 |
| schestowitz | http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Windows_7_Upgrade_on_Blank_Harddrives_Illegal/551-107186-580.html | Nov 02 19:17 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Techtree.com India > News > Software > Windows 7 Upgrade on Blank Harddrives Illegal .::. Size~: 93.82 KB | Nov 02 19:17 |
| schestowitz | "Thank you and have a wonderful day. Just convinced me to go Ubuntu and since testing version 9.10 is heaven compared to the Microsoft hell." | Nov 02 19:17 |
| schestowitz | http://i.zdnet.com/gallery/275348-480-640.jpg | Nov 02 19:18 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 02 19:18 |
| schestowitz | They use DRM | Nov 02 19:18 |
| schestowitz | http://www.maclife.com/files/u58/bomb.jpg | Nov 02 19:19 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 02 19:19 |
| schestowitz | But it's blessed my Reverend Jobs | Nov 02 19:19 |
| DaemonFC | http://news.softpedia.com/news/Worm-Infections-Explode-Thanks-to-Conficker-and-Taterf-125883.shtml | Nov 02 19:19 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Worm Infections Explode Thanks to Conficker and Taterf - Reveals Microsoft - Softpedia .::. Size~: 49.65 KB | Nov 02 19:19 |
| schestowitz | /muy/by/ | Nov 02 19:19 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: yes, seen that | Nov 02 19:19 |
| DaemonFC | MS will still tell you that XP SP2 broke the back of the worm infection plague | Nov 02 19:19 |
| DaemonFC | and so did Vista | Nov 02 19:19 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Nov 02 19:19 |
| schestowitz | http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-theme-mockups-for-firefox-4-03-7.html | Nov 02 19:22 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Linux Theme Mockups for Firefox 4.0/3.7 | Ubuntu Geek .::. Size~: 42.84 KB | Nov 02 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | saw it | Nov 02 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | looks very Chrome and Safari-like | Nov 02 19:22 |
| DaemonFC | it was probably to be expected | Nov 02 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | Firefox looks dated | Nov 02 19:23 |
| _Hicham_ | actually seamonkey is more flexible visually | Nov 02 19:24 |
| schestowitz | Apple was not the first with metallic themes | Nov 02 19:24 |
| _Hicham_ | I hate metallic themes | Nov 02 19:25 |
| MinceR | what does the "Bruce" button on the top do? | Nov 02 19:25 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe they will stop producing libxul in firefox 4.0 | Nov 02 19:25 |
| _Hicham_ | and return back to old style mozilla suite | Nov 02 19:25 |
| MinceR | (Hiding the Menu Bar pic) | Nov 02 19:26 |
| schestowitz | Check out the image this PR uses for illustration. Who are they advertising except themselves there? http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/11/prweb3140054.htm | Nov 02 19:26 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ubuntu and RedHat Get Enterprise Remote Desktop Control with Bomgar .::. Size~: 45.4 KB | Nov 02 19:26 |
| MinceR | i'd rather them stop using XUL and switch to plain GTK | Nov 02 19:26 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : Midori is already doing that | Nov 02 19:26 |
| schestowitz | No Qt? | Nov 02 19:26 |
| schestowitz | And what about the plugins? | Nov 02 19:27 |
| _Hicham_ | it is the fastest GTK browser till now | Nov 02 19:27 |
| _Hicham_ | i think even faster than chromium | Nov 02 19:27 |
| _Hicham_ | has a limited set of extensions | Nov 02 19:27 |
| _Hicham_ | adblocking, mouse gestures, and some stuff | Nov 02 19:27 |
| schestowitz | Webkhtml[it] | Nov 02 19:27 |
| _Hicham_ | in total about 10 extensions | Nov 02 19:27 |
| _Hicham_ | and it supports netscape plugins | Nov 02 19:27 |
| schestowitz | Depends which | Nov 02 19:28 |
| _Hicham_ | it is progressing really fast | Nov 02 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk4FIIkKXdw | Nov 02 19:28 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: YouTube - Apple's "Get a Mac" ad: "Broken Promises" .::. Size~: 139.33 KB | Nov 02 19:28 |
| schestowitz | I actually realised very few extensions are of much use after a while | Nov 02 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | Nov 02 19:28 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I've put it in BN already | Nov 02 19:28 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : especially in firefox | Nov 02 19:28 |
| _Hicham_ | flashgot increases startup time by more than 5 sec | Nov 02 19:29 |
| schestowitz | it's like Go!Zilla | Nov 02 19:29 |
| schestowitz | Remember? | Nov 02 19:29 |
| schestowitz | I remember the days of using apps to resume and manage downloads over modem | Nov 02 19:30 |
| schestowitz | This dude needs assistance: http://mediachannel.org/jump/2009/11/02/ubuntu-will-not-let-me-log-in/ | Nov 02 19:30 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ubuntu will not let me log in&? « jump .::. Size~: 9.4 KB | Nov 02 19:30 |
| _Hicham_ | if Midori get enough support, it might become the browser of choice of so many people | Nov 02 19:33 |
| _Hicham_ | there is only one person working on it | Nov 02 19:33 |
| _Hicham_ | and it is pretty good | Nov 02 19:33 |
| schestowitz | TM has a new theme \o/ http://www.tuxmachines.org/node | Nov 02 19:33 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: tuxmachines.org | Do you waddle the waddle? .::. Size~: 41.82 KB | Nov 02 19:33 |
| *stefanc (n=stefanc@188.25.245.163) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 19:34 | |
| *schestowitz gives voice to stefanc | Nov 02 19:37 | |
| DaemonFC | heh, download managers | Nov 02 19:38 |
| schestowitz | http://gcn.com/articles/2009/10/29/white-house-drupal.aspx | Nov 02 19:38 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: White House shift to open-source Web system draws mostly praise -- Government Computer News .::. Size~: 72.06 KB | Nov 02 19:38 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: needed when connections were slow | Nov 02 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Sometimes it would take several nights to get an app | Nov 02 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Plasma in KDE4 has a nice processes manager that includes downloads and i/o ops | Nov 02 19:39 |
| schestowitz | I remember such mockups from SUSE days | Nov 02 19:39 |
| schestowitz | KDE 3.1.. | Nov 02 19:39 |
| _Hicham_ | DownthemAll is maybe the best Download Mananger on Linux | Nov 02 19:39 |
| schestowitz | Many good ideas come from FOSS users who are also devs | Nov 02 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, What's frightening is listening to old people talk about technology | Nov 02 19:40 |
| _Hicham_ | the Best Download Manager ever is proprietary, and Windows Only | Nov 02 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | I was at a restaurant yesterday and forgot that's when all the old fossils from church would be there | Nov 02 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft pretends it's FOSS again: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10385619-48.html | Nov 02 19:40 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ford unveils open-source Sync developer platform | The Car Tech blog - CNET Reviews .::. Size~: 84.1 KB | Nov 02 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | and a couple of them were talking about their internet connection being slow | Nov 02 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | one guy had dial up | Nov 02 19:40 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: that's demeaning to older people | Nov 02 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | the woman he was talking to said she took the computer to the repair shop | Nov 02 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Watch the language | Nov 02 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | Nov 02 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Do you also call your grandma "fossil"? | Nov 02 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | said she paid them $100 to figure out why her youtube videos were stopping to buffer | Nov 02 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | they're out of touch, severely out of touch | Nov 02 19:42 |
| schestowitz | Yes, old ripoffs | Nov 02 19:42 |
| schestowitz | That's how they make money | Nov 02 19:42 |
| schestowitz | "Leave the computer over for inpection" | Nov 02 19:42 |
| schestowitz | It's worse then garage scams | Nov 02 19:42 |
| _Hicham_ | what a nice way to talk | Nov 02 19:42 |
| schestowitz | My mom was charges like 30 quid for a stupid power unit to be replaced... cause it was knackered | Nov 02 19:42 |
| schestowitz | My shaver..... | Nov 02 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | I was just eavesdropping, but she probably had one of those slow budget DSL lines | Nov 02 19:43 |
| schestowitz | About a month ago theyn charged my 20 quid to replace a battery! | Nov 02 19:43 |
| schestowitz | $30!!! | Nov 02 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | it's like "I have DSL, so it can't be my connection" | Nov 02 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | "Better take the PC to the shop" | Nov 02 19:43 |
| schestowitz | They make a whole day's wage extorting people with a little tin of lead | Nov 02 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, She probably could have just got a faster DSL conenction for like $5 a month more | Nov 02 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | and been done with it | Nov 02 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Take PC to shop implies the PC is "ill" | Nov 02 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Not the ISP | Nov 02 19:44 |
| _Hicham_ | then how repair shops will make money ? | Nov 02 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, People that age don't typically understand what they're buying, in my observation | Nov 02 19:45 |
| _Hicham_ | that is how a lot of people are living | Nov 02 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | she probably just got the $20 a month 768 kbps plan | Nov 02 19:45 |
| _Hicham_ | u want to cut their earning | Nov 02 19:45 |
| schestowitz | It's like taking the kid to the d0ct0rs cause he can't run fast | Nov 02 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | and ignored the $25 a month 1.5 Mbps plan | Nov 02 19:45 |
| _Hicham_ | that is how commerce goes | Nov 02 19:45 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a service | Nov 02 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | that's how they are, cheap and ignorant | Nov 02 19:45 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: by solving real problems | Nov 02 19:45 |
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| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : not really | Nov 02 19:45 |
| schestowitz | And if fewer exist then, well fine.... redundancies will eliminate unnecessary jobs | Nov 02 19:46 |
| _Hicham_ | real problems are not solved | Nov 02 19:46 |
| _Hicham_ | we need jobs | Nov 02 19:46 |
| _Hicham_ | otherwise, what will those people do? | Nov 02 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | there's a difference between being "cheap" and being pragmatic and frugal | Nov 02 19:46 |
| _Hicham_ | start agressing people like DaemonFC does ? | Nov 02 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | people who are "cheap" insist on making a car last 30 years and wearing a pair of shoes til their toes are poking out | Nov 02 19:46 |
| _Hicham_ | when he have no money, he takes his small gun and start agressing people | Nov 02 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | I mean, it's beyond reason | Nov 02 19:47 |
| _Hicham_ | "give me money, or i will kill u" | Nov 02 19:47 |
| schestowitz | Don't troll him | Nov 02 19:47 |
| *amarsh04_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Nov 02 19:47 | |
| schestowitz | The shops can make money being honest | Nov 02 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, I've never shot anyone. What would be the penalty for wasting you? $5 fine? | Nov 02 19:47 |
| schestowitz | Not by expoiting ignorance | Nov 02 19:48 |
| *DaemonFC scratches his chin | Nov 02 19:48 | |
| DaemonFC | not worth it | Nov 02 19:48 |
| schestowitz | The shops have good guys and bad guys | Nov 02 19:48 |
| schestowitz | I worked in a computer store when I was 18 | Nov 02 19:48 |
| schestowitz | And I was one of the good guys | Nov 02 19:48 |
| schestowitz | I didn't shove to people stuff they don't need | Nov 02 19:48 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC : u can't even kill a chicken | Nov 02 19:48 |
| schestowitz | Like extra equipment or too expensive a product | Nov 02 19:48 |
| schestowitz | I guess it made me a "bad" employee :-) | Nov 02 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | _Hicham_, You can't even figure out how to choke the Bishop | Nov 02 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Nov 02 19:48 |
| schestowitz | "Good employee" = "evil bastard" | Nov 02 19:49 |
| schestowitz | "Bad employee" = "honest person" | Nov 02 19:49 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, being honest is bad | Nov 02 19:49 |
| schestowitz | It's not | Nov 02 19:49 |
| _Hicham_ | honesty in not profitable | Nov 02 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, No, a good manager is an evil bastard who puts downward pressure on good people into doing things they know they shouldn't | Nov 02 19:49 |
| schestowitz | Depends what you mean by "bad" | Nov 02 19:49 |
| _Hicham_ | companies wants profit | Nov 02 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | that's how a company functions | Nov 02 19:49 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: they do other things too | Nov 02 19:50 |
| schestowitz | It does not justify them | Nov 02 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Like ruining the environment | Nov 02 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | an excellent manager strings middle managers around through judicious use of threats and bribes | Nov 02 19:50 |
| schestowitz | THe solution is rule-changing | Nov 02 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Like measuring performance in composite terms | Nov 02 19:50 |
| schestowitz | Such as, how many sales are made as function (per) extraction from nature and pollution | Nov 02 19:51 |
| schestowitz | For employees they can measure customer satisfaction | Nov 02 19:51 |
| schestowitz | And then use that to assess with new metrics | Nov 02 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, The worst part about being a salaried manager at Walmart were the people that came into the store | Nov 02 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes that means customers, usually it means people trying to rip you off | Nov 02 19:52 |
| schestowitz | Sure you can ignore labour rules, take lunch breaks out, make people work 15 hrs/day | Nov 02 19:52 |
| schestowitz | You would do "well" as a manager | Nov 02 19:52 |
| schestowitz | More profit | Nov 02 19:52 |
| schestowitz | But there are regulations | Nov 02 19:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Giving a session in ~10 mins for Ubuntu Open Week #uow https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek | Nov 02 19:52 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: UbuntuOpenWeek - Ubuntu Wiki .::. Size~: 21.88 KB | Nov 02 19:52 |
| schestowitz | So you would be_breakign the law_ | Nov 02 19:52 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, more profit | Nov 02 19:52 |
| _Hicham_ | that is what matters | Nov 02 19:52 |
| *PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 19:52 | |
| _Hicham_ | if u were a manager u would have done the same | Nov 02 19:52 |
| _Hicham_ | only profit matters | Nov 02 19:52 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, My favorite day was when one of the employees caught a guy trying to steal a bunch of cold medicine | Nov 02 19:52 |
| DaemonFC | before we had to lock it up in the back of the pharmacy | Nov 02 19:53 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: doesn't mean it should | Nov 02 19:53 |
| _Hicham_ | for instance, I will force people like DaemonFC to work for more than 16 hours/day | Nov 02 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | the guy panicked, and took off running | Nov 02 19:53 |
| schestowitz | It's like saying, "slavery is here, cope with it" | Nov 02 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | and I ducked behind a display and clotheslined him on the way by | Nov 02 19:53 |
| cubezzz | profit matters yes, but longevity matters too | Nov 02 19:54 |
| schestowitz | "People said I should accept the world. Bullshit! I don't accept the world." --RM | Nov 02 19:54 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, slavery is here | Nov 02 19:54 |
| _Hicham_ | people are here | Nov 02 19:54 |
| schestowitz | *RMS | Nov 02 19:54 |
| *jono has quit (Client Quit) | Nov 02 19:54 | |
| _Hicham_ | if someone dies working, others will come | Nov 02 19:54 |
| _Hicham_ | because people are all over | Nov 02 19:54 |
| _Hicham_ | offer is more than demand | Nov 02 19:54 |
| cubezzz | yes, lots of people :) | Nov 02 19:54 |
| _Hicham_ | joblessness is all over | Nov 02 19:54 |
| cubezzz | probably too many | Nov 02 19:54 |
| schestowitz | "Jobs" are misunderstood | Nov 02 19:54 |
| schestowitz | Like other terms that are created for a mode | Nov 02 19:55 |
| schestowitz | SOme "jobs" are better off eliminated | Nov 02 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Such as "lobbyists" | Nov 02 19:55 |
| cubezzz | I'm always working myself | Nov 02 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | he made a very satisfying "thump" | Nov 02 19:55 |
| schestowitz | So I don't buy the whole "job creation" thing | Nov 02 19:55 |
| schestowitz | Babysitting your kid is a job too | Nov 02 19:55 |
| cubezzz | self-employed = perma-job | Nov 02 19:55 |
| schestowitz | The real jobs are usually extraction and construction | Nov 02 19:55 |
| schestowitz | They are the few which actually produce real transformation | Nov 02 19:56 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, if they just enforced, E-Verify, there would be another 12-15 million American jobs | Nov 02 19:56 |
| DaemonFC | but they won't because it's not politically correct | Nov 02 19:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] RT @drew: hug someone today. tell them that you love them. the gift of life is more important than anything. | Nov 02 19:56 | |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: go hug someone | Nov 02 19:56 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, then there's the really stupid shit | Nov 02 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Get the flu :-) | Nov 02 19:57 |
| DaemonFC | like training foreigners to compete with us | Nov 02 19:57 |
| DaemonFC | then sending them home | Nov 02 19:57 |
| _Hicham_ | http://www.mono-project.com/Image:Ieclone.png | Nov 02 19:57 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Image:Ieclone.png - Mono .::. Size~: 8.84 KB | Nov 02 19:57 |
| schestowitz | It's priftable | Nov 02 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Short-term | Nov 02 19:57 |
| DaemonFC | I've stopped trying to make sense of the government, schestowitz | Nov 02 19:57 |
| DaemonFC | The conservatives are bad new | Nov 02 19:57 |
| DaemonFC | the liberals are bad news | Nov 02 19:57 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: tuition is big money | Nov 02 19:57 |
| DaemonFC | the centrists are bad news | Nov 02 19:57 |
| schestowitz | Without it, many universities wil die | Nov 02 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Engineering edu in the US is almost mostly occupied by foreigners | Nov 02 19:58 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, They put foreigners in there ahead of qualified Americans | Nov 02 19:58 |
| schestowitz | Sagan even talked about it in the 80s | Nov 02 19:58 |
| _Hicham_ | huh, the us can't make its universities public | Nov 02 19:58 |
| cubezzz | > schestowitz, They are the few which actually produce real transformation | Nov 02 19:58 |
| DaemonFC | so they're causing a brain drain here and educating foreigners on how to compete with us | Nov 02 19:58 |
| cubezzz | schestowitz, programmer? | Nov 02 19:58 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: not exactly | Nov 02 19:59 |
| cubezzz | blogger? :) | Nov 02 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | it's because it's what business wants | Nov 02 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | cheap foreign outsourced labor | Nov 02 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | educated in America | Nov 02 19:59 |
| cubezzz | hairdresser? :) | Nov 02 19:59 |
| schestowitz | It's like writing tools for physical stuff | Nov 02 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Or for people who manage/instruct those who do | Nov 02 19:59 |
| schestowitz | Or for design of phyical labour, e.g. CAD | Nov 02 19:59 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: hairdresser yes, BUT. | Nov 02 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, This business agenda is like forcing this country to castrate and otherwise mutilate itself | Nov 02 20:00 |
| cubezzz | people will pay for services | Nov 02 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Only if you assume trimming someone's hair is beneficial to all | Nov 02 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | but people are too fucking stupid to look at what's really going on | Nov 02 20:00 |
| schestowitz | What about pedicure? | Nov 02 20:00 |
| cubezzz | vanity :) | Nov 02 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Or 'doctors' that are plastic surgeon not for life-saving plastic surgeries | Nov 02 20:00 |
| schestowitz | Like anti-wrinkle and breast implants | Nov 02 20:01 |
| cubezzz | college professor? | Nov 02 20:01 |
| cubezzz | That adds value | Nov 02 20:01 |
| _Hicham_ | if universities in the US were free to get at, DaemonFC wouldn't be that ignorant | Nov 02 20:01 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, I can understand reconstructive surgery | Nov 02 20:01 |
| DaemonFC | but not boob jobs and face lifts | Nov 02 20:01 |
| cubezzz | lots of different jobs | Nov 02 20:01 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: yes | Nov 02 20:01 |
| schestowitz | Medical profession went AWOL | Nov 02 20:01 |
| schestowitz | They prioritise nonsense when people die | Nov 02 20:02 |
| _Hicham_ | DaemonFC does a face lift every month | Nov 02 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | vain women who don't want to feel as old as they are | Nov 02 20:02 |
| schestowitz | And they still call it "hospital" and have nurses and stuff..... | Nov 02 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | that's all 90% of these plastic surgeries are | Nov 02 20:02 |
| cubezzz | Stallman == not vain | Nov 02 20:02 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: worse: | Nov 02 20:02 |
| schestowitz | It sets fake standards | Nov 02 20:02 |
| schestowitz | Like guys on steroids | Nov 02 20:02 |
| fewa | dental whitening | Nov 02 20:03 |
| schestowitz | It makes illusions for guys/gals to run after | Nov 02 20:03 |
| fewa | horrible for health of teeth | Nov 02 20:03 |
| schestowitz | Like Photoshopped/GIMPed glamour magazines | Nov 02 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | fewa, There's nothing wrong with those whitening strips | Nov 02 20:03 |
| schestowitz | !google ralph lauren diet | Nov 02 20:03 |
| fewa | bleeching | Nov 02 20:03 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Ralph Lauren: Yes, We Screwed Up. Me: Um, Duh. | Never Say Diet | http://www.neversaydiet.com/blog-article/ralph-lauren-yes-we-screwed-me-um-duh | Nov 02 20:03 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Photoshopped Model Too Fat For Ralph Lauren | http://www.celebritydietdoctor.com/photoshopped-model-too-fat-for-ralph-lauren/ | Nov 02 20:03 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Ralph Lauren consideres this model overweight! - 3 Fat Chicks on a ... | http://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/weight-loss-news-current-events/184379-ralph-lauren-consideres-model-overweight.html | Nov 02 20:03 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Get Ralph Lauren's Bobblehead Look — Just Add Photoshop! | The ... | http://thelaughingstork.com/2009/10/get-ralph-laurens-bobblehead-look-just-add-photoshop/ | Nov 02 20:03 |
| cubezzz | well, hollywood is one big illusion | Nov 02 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | they're only like $15 | Nov 02 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | unnecessary surgeries are more like $50,000 or so | Nov 02 20:03 |
| fewa | DaemonFC, there is nothing wrong with bullets, they only costs 5c a piece | Nov 02 20:03 |
| fewa | but yes, there is a difference | Nov 02 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | I couldn't see blowing $50,000 on unnecessary surgery | Nov 02 20:04 |
| fewa | there is a large expensive teech bleeching business | Nov 02 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | necessary surgery creeps me out anyway | Nov 02 20:04 |
| cubezzz | well, people want to look good, that is normal | Nov 02 20:04 |
| cubezzz | I don't want to have super-yellow teeth | Nov 02 20:04 |
| fewa | costs much more than $15 | Nov 02 20:04 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: how DARE you? :-) Those poor, starving plastic surgeons | Nov 02 20:04 |
| fewa | you see big ads for it | Nov 02 20:04 |
| fewa | they have to pay for that somehow | Nov 02 20:04 |
| schestowitz | What would they do without rich people coming in for 'treatment'? | Nov 02 20:04 |
| schestowitz | What? Tell me | Nov 02 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Maybe go to save lives in Africa? | Nov 02 20:05 |
| fewa | or even in the US | Nov 02 20:05 |
| schestowitz | With kids who need surgeries? | Nov 02 20:05 |
| schestowitz | 'REAL' surgeries | Nov 02 20:05 |
| *amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp118-210-67-233.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 02 20:05 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Another thing is those 1,000 pound people that have been in the same room for a year who are on disability and Medicare and have a nurse to wipe their ass for them | Nov 02 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | and clean under their fat folds | Nov 02 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | they get the bariatric surgery | Nov 02 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | then plastic surgery to fix hanging skin | Nov 02 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | why would anyone eat that much? I mean god damn! | Nov 02 20:05 |
| cubezzz | ok, I dont' understand how they get that fat | Nov 02 20:05 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: it's like Queen Ants | Nov 02 20:05 |
| cubezzz | I mean "can't even stand up fat" | Nov 02 20:06 |
| fewa | a big way to fight obesity in this country would be to make protein affordable | Nov 02 20:06 |
| schestowitz | [20:05] <DaemonFC> why would anyone eat that much? I mean god damn! | Nov 02 20:06 |
| schestowitz | At some stage you haven't anything to lose/gain | Nov 02 20:06 |
| fewa | ^^^ | Nov 02 20:06 |
| schestowitz | So you just enjoy it | Nov 02 20:06 |
| fewa | its cause there is no protein in cheep food | Nov 02 20:06 |
| fewa | many overeat cause they are not getting their nutrition | Nov 02 20:06 |
| fewa | overeating is the only way | Nov 02 20:07 |
| schestowitz | !google youtube trailer supersize me | Nov 02 20:07 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - YouTube - Supersize Me -Trailer | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DI1Lkyb6SU5U | Nov 02 20:07 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Super Size Me Videos - Metacafe | http://www.metacafe.com/tags/super_size_me/ | Nov 02 20:07 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Super Size Me | http://www.mahalo.com/super-size-me | Nov 02 20:07 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Super Size me Trailer Video | http://vodpod.com/watch/38705-supersize-me | Nov 02 20:07 |
| fewa | lots of processed food has lots of calories but little nutrients | Nov 02 20:07 |
| fewa | supersize me was OK | Nov 02 20:07 |
| fewa | you have to read Fast Food Nation | Nov 02 20:07 |
| cubezzz | yeah, we know not to supersize :) | Nov 02 20:07 |
| cubezzz | I stopped eating fast food years ago | Nov 02 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | brb, brother will be home from school in a few and Ineed to have a discussion with him about how his homework backlog will be finished before the XBOX comes on | Nov 02 20:07 |
| fewa | thats the real work, that the movie ripped off of | Nov 02 20:07 |
| fewa | and cheapened | Nov 02 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | under penalty of me yanking the cord til it is | Nov 02 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Nov 02 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Heh. DaemonFC is like a dad now | Nov 02 20:07 |
| fewa | Fast Food Nation also has a movie, a real movie | Nov 02 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | back in a bit | Nov 02 20:08 |
| schestowitz | fewa: I watched a few | Nov 02 20:08 |
| *DaemonFC has quit ("Leaving") | Nov 02 20:08 | |
| schestowitz | About those girls who sued McFatlands | Nov 02 20:08 |
| fewa | meh, more yellow journalism | Nov 02 20:08 |
| fewa | of little substance | Nov 02 20:08 |
| fewa | Fast Food Nation is hard hitting | Nov 02 20:08 |
| schestowitz | Food courts are disgusting | Nov 02 20:09 |
| fewa | it cuts to those critical features | Nov 02 20:09 |
| schestowitz | We got some of them here now, in malls | Nov 02 20:09 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving") | Nov 02 20:09 | |
| fewa | far beyond food courts | Nov 02 20:09 |
| cubezzz | McDonalds was quite bad in the 70's | Nov 02 20:09 |
| fewa | its the way the food is produced | Nov 02 20:09 |
| schestowitz | Loading up heaps of food in Styrofoam (IIRC) dishes | Nov 02 20:09 |
| cubezzz | trying to attract kids | Nov 02 20:09 |
| schestowitz | I hate food courts | Nov 02 20:09 |
| schestowitz | Makes me sick just looking around at bins, leftover meals... | Nov 02 20:10 |
| fewa | the way its centered around "food science", scents made in a lab on the New Jersey turnpike | Nov 02 20:10 |
| schestowitz | Like military... | Nov 02 20:10 |
| cubezzz | burgers, fries, shakes, and icey cold fizzy drinks | Nov 02 20:10 |
| schestowitz | Or like the scene in 1984 the film | Nov 02 20:10 |
| schestowitz | "Is it meat?" | Nov 02 20:10 |
| schestowitz | "It tastes like meat" | Nov 02 20:10 |
| schestowitz | "Looks like meat.." | Nov 02 20:10 |
| fewa | you really should read Fast Food Nation if you have a interest in the subject | Nov 02 20:10 |
| schestowitz | Sometimes they just inject water into mean these days | Nov 02 20:11 |
| schestowitz | To beat the scales | Nov 02 20:11 |
| fewa | yes | Nov 02 20:11 |
| schestowitz | What's the point? | Nov 02 20:11 |
| fewa | they also feed the cows blood at the end | Nov 02 20:11 |
| schestowitz | I could also 'inject' water into me at the end of the meal | Nov 02 20:11 |
| schestowitz | Wouldn't add value to it | Nov 02 20:11 |
| fewa | as cows are vegitarians blood bloats them up | Nov 02 20:11 |
| cubezzz | hmmm | Nov 02 20:11 |
| fewa | makes fatty meet | Nov 02 20:11 |
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| cubezzz | that doesn't sound good | Nov 02 20:11 |
| fewa | it use to be cow blood | Nov 02 20:11 |
| fewa | but because of mad cow regulation it goes like this | Nov 02 20:12 |
| fewa | cows-->chickens-->pigs-->cows | Nov 02 20:12 |
| schestowitz | One big cannibalifest | Nov 02 20:12 |
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| fewa | its woorse for the cows hoever | Nov 02 20:12 |
| schestowitz | As long as they don't feed one directly to the other | Nov 02 20:12 |
| fewa | as cows are herbivoires | Nov 02 20:12 |
| schestowitz | "proxifying" the cannibalism | Nov 02 20:13 |
| fewa | they really are not meant to eat meat | Nov 02 20:13 |
| fewa | in fact they have to put stuff in the blood to make them eat it | Nov 02 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Then there's those religions and ban on eating certain things | Nov 02 20:13 |
| cubezzz | fewa: what about humans? | Nov 02 20:13 |
| fewa | specially processed | Nov 02 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Even milk sometimes | Nov 02 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Which is stupid | Nov 02 20:13 |
| schestowitz | We humans drink milk | Nov 02 20:13 |
| schestowitz | It's our first diet | Nov 02 20:13 |
| cubezzz | should we be vegetarians? | Nov 02 20:13 |
| fewa | cubezzz, cardivascularly, no, but otherwise, esp for brain, its important | Nov 02 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Except for the one from the umbilical cord | Nov 02 20:13 |
| fewa | also with the switch to low-nutrition grains | Nov 02 20:14 |
| fewa | but legumes can do alot | Nov 02 20:14 |
| fewa | and in terms of grown food, grown meat is disgusting | Nov 02 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Fish is running out | Nov 02 20:14 |
| fewa | ugggh | Nov 02 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Tuna faces extinction for some species | Nov 02 20:14 |
| fewa | they farm atlantic salmon in the pacific | Nov 02 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Since it's underwater people don't know how bad it is | Nov 02 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Technology and drift nets improve | Nov 02 20:15 |
| fewa | then they get out and destroy the pacific salmon | Nov 02 20:15 |
| schestowitz | So they manage to squeeze out what's left | Nov 02 20:15 |
| fewa | its horrible | Nov 02 20:15 |
| fewa | massive ecological destruction | Nov 02 20:15 |
| schestowitz | And to grow populations you need generations | Nov 02 20:15 |
| cubezzz | what is the solution? | Nov 02 20:15 |
| fewa | because they insist on growing atlantic salmon in the pacific | Nov 02 20:15 |
| schestowitz | You can deliver half a baby in 4.5 months | Nov 02 20:15 |
| schestowitz | *can;t | Nov 02 20:15 |
| fewa | cubezzz, legumes, nuts, etc | Nov 02 20:15 |
| fewa | oats are a good high-protein grain | Nov 02 20:15 |
| cubezzz | yes, I eat oats | Nov 02 20:15 |
| schestowitz | !google Mediterranean tuna ban | Nov 02 20:15 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Tuna ban 'justified' by science | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8331113.stm | Nov 02 20:16 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - WWF - Bluefin tuna in crisis | http://panda.org/tuna | Nov 02 20:16 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Atlantic Bluefin Tuna Ban Supported by Fishing Commission ... | http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/10/atlantic-bluefin-tuna-ban-supported-fishing-commission-data.php | Nov 02 20:16 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - EU fails to agree ban on bluefin tuna fishing | Environment ... | http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/sep/22/eu-ban-fails-bluefin-tuna | Nov 02 20:16 |
| cubezzz | I do eat albacore sometimes | Nov 02 20:16 |
| schestowitz | I stopped eating tuna in August last year | Nov 02 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Now washing the cans for recycling too | Nov 02 20:16 |
| cubezzz | Conservation status of Albacore is "Data Deficient" | Nov 02 20:17 |
| schestowitz | it's good to see how many people join the cause of recycling in this area now | Nov 02 20:17 |
| schestowitz | They support it with special bags and facilities | Nov 02 20:17 |
| cubezzz | so schestowitz, what do you eat? :) | Nov 02 20:17 |
| schestowitz | Oh, you don't wanna know!! j/k | Nov 02 20:18 |
| cubezzz | don't say Burger King after that speech :) | Nov 02 20:18 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/29/qualcomm_fujitsu/ | Nov 02 20:18 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Symbian Foundation bulks out board • The Register .::. Size~: 27.65 KB | Nov 02 20:18 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: I used to work at Burger King | Nov 02 20:18 |
| schestowitz | 10 years ago | Nov 02 20:18 |
| cubezzz | yikes | Nov 02 20:18 |
| schestowitz | After school | Nov 02 20:18 |
| cubezzz | I think Burger King has the most calories for burger places | Nov 02 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Could use the money... | Nov 02 20:19 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: | Nov 02 20:19 |
| schestowitz | !google burger king lard windows | Nov 02 20:19 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Japan gets Windows 7 Whopper with 7 patties | http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Japan_gets_Windows_7_Whopper_with_7_patties | Nov 02 20:19 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Burger King Japan selling Windows 7 burgers | Electronista | http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/10/21/microsoft.promos.win.7.with.bk.deal/ | Nov 02 20:19 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - GameSpot Forums - Off-Topic Discussion - Japanese Burger King ... | http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php%3Ftopic_id%3D27083284 | Nov 02 20:19 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - 8 | http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/10/23/the-real-life-burger-king-windows-7-whopper-is-a-disgusting-joke-to-humanity/8-2/ | Nov 02 20:19 |
| cubezzz | yes, I saw :) | Nov 02 20:19 |
| cubezzz | very very bad :-0 | Nov 02 20:19 |
| schestowitz | heartbreaking | Nov 02 20:20 |
| schestowitz | Literally in some cases | Nov 02 20:20 |
| cubezzz | if you eat less you live longer | Nov 02 20:20 |
| cubezzz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methuselah_mouse | Nov 02 20:21 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 02 20:21 |
| cubezzz | Forbidden knowledge! | Nov 02 20:21 |
| schestowitz | it's the first burger ever to come with a EULA for liability :-) | Nov 02 20:21 |
| cubezzz | 1819 days, longest mouse lifespan | Nov 02 20:22 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: if you eat too little, your ammunition can be poorer, no? | Nov 02 20:22 |
| schestowitz | Too bad a diet and there is illness | Nov 02 20:23 |
| cubezzz | schestowitz, not suggesting eat bad, just less calories | Nov 02 20:23 |
| schestowitz | More Black Duck venom: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/102909-open-source-algorithms-a-regulatory.html | Nov 02 20:23 |
| cubezzz | I'm sure you would agree in North America and UK we consume too many calories | Nov 02 20:23 |
| schestowitz | French people live long | Nov 02 20:24 |
| schestowitz | How's obesity there? Let's check | Nov 02 20:24 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Obesity_Taskforce | Nov 02 20:25 |
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| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 02 20:25 |
| cubezzz | guess the bots aren't allowed to access wikipedia | Nov 02 20:25 |
| trmanco | it's strange | Nov 02 20:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Está frio cmo raio... | Nov 02 20:26 | |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_longevity_recordholders | Nov 02 20:26 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: National longevity recordholders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 112.52 KB | Nov 02 20:26 |
| trmanco | it's user agent is firefox | Nov 02 20:26 |
| schestowitz | "Jeanne Calment F 21 February 1875 4 August 1997 122 years, 164 days" | Nov 02 20:27 |
| cubezzz | there's something in the Bible about 120 years being the limit | Nov 02 20:27 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Mortensen | Nov 02 20:27 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Christian Mortensen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 36.74 KB | Nov 02 20:27 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: there's lots of utter crap in the bible | Nov 02 20:28 |
| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_of_Eden | Nov 02 20:28 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Garden of Eden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 77.7 KB | Nov 02 20:28 |
| cubezzz | lol, schestowitz, you just confirmed it :) | Nov 02 20:28 |
| cubezzz | 115 years | Nov 02 20:28 |
| cubezzz | I'll try to make it to 120 though | Nov 02 20:30 |
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| _Hicham_ | it is sad but software is better downloaded on Windows | Nov 02 20:31 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: are you sure you want to? | Nov 02 20:31 |
| _Hicham_ | last year, i made a small piece of encryption software | Nov 02 20:31 |
| schestowitz | It's not fun at some stage. And people remember you by the later days. | Nov 02 20:31 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: to escape the CIA? ;-) | Nov 02 20:31 |
| _Hicham_ | the windows downloads more than a double of linux downloads | Nov 02 20:32 |
| _Hicham_ | that is sad schestowitz | Nov 02 20:32 |
| schestowitz | I'm sure the MI5 will come knocking on yo' door real soon now | Nov 02 20:32 |
| schestowitz | !google pgp fbi zimmerman | Nov 02 20:32 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Why I Wrote PGP - Phil Zimmermann's Home Page | http://www.philzimmermann.com/EN/essays/WhyIWrotePGP.html | Nov 02 20:32 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - NSA Can Break PGP Encryption | http://www.austinlinks.com/Crypto/break-pgp.html | Nov 02 20:32 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Why do you need PGP? | http://www.pgpi.org/doc/whypgp/en/ | Nov 02 20:32 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - PGP Encryption Proves Powerful - PC World | http://www.pcworld.com/article/110841/pgp_encryption_proves_powerful.html | Nov 02 20:32 |
| _Hicham_ | that means that more people are interested in Windows programs | Nov 02 20:32 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: no | Nov 02 20:32 |
| _Hicham_ | http://sourceforge.net/projects/adv-aes-encrypt/files/ | Nov 02 20:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Browse Advanced AES Encrypter Files on SourceForge.net .::. Size~: 20.16 KB | Nov 02 20:33 |
| _Hicham_ | that is the page | Nov 02 20:33 |
| schestowitz | It means that more Windows users do TERROR~1 /sarcasm | Nov 02 20:33 |
| schestowitz | They hide their deeds :-p | Nov 02 20:33 |
| cubezzz | schestowitz, ok, if I make it to 100 then I get to see what computers will be like in 56 years | Nov 02 20:33 |
| _Hicham_ | on softpedia , windows : http://www.softpedia.com/get/Security/Encrypting/Advanced-AES-Encrypter.shtml | Nov 02 20:33 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Download Advanced AES Encrypter 0.0.1 - A utility to encrypt/decrypt files using AES (Advanced Encryption Standard) - Softpedia .::. Size~: 54.13 KB | Nov 02 20:33 |
| cubezzz | so sure, why not | Nov 02 20:33 |
| schestowitz | Best dev in SF.net: http://sourceforge.net/users/funnylife_ma | Nov 02 20:33 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: SourceForge.net: Hicham HAOUARI - User Profile .::. Size~: 17.48 KB | Nov 02 20:33 |
| _Hicham_ | on softpedia, linux : http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Security/Advanced-AES-Encrypter-38691.shtml | Nov 02 20:34 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Download Advanced AES Encrypter 0.0.1 for Linux - Advanced AES Encrypter is a small application created to encrypt/decrypt files using AES (Advanced Encryption Standard). - Softpedia .::. Size~: 50.03 KB | Nov 02 20:34 |
| schestowitz | They call him TheUndertaker | Nov 02 20:34 |
| cubezzz | did you see the arugment between Stallman and Aker? | Nov 02 20:34 |
| cubezzz | argument | Nov 02 20:35 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Education/Othello-Master-19021.shtml | Nov 02 20:35 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Download Othello Master 0.7.8 for Linux - Othello Master project is a 3-D Othello (Reversi) gaming environment. - Softpedia .::. Size~: 53.15 KB | Nov 02 20:35 |
| schestowitz | Check out who made it | Nov 02 20:35 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: I read about it | Nov 02 20:35 |
| schestowitz | Flash. Meh. | Nov 02 20:35 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: maybe you want to make a successor of it. Qt4 version? | Nov 02 20:37 |
| schestowitz | As long as it doesn't end with a hash :-) | Nov 02 20:37 |
| _Hicham_ | no windows version ? | Nov 02 20:38 |
| schestowitz | Yes, there is one | Nov 02 20:38 |
| schestowitz | Like 5 slower | Nov 02 20:38 |
| _Hicham_ | why slower? | Nov 02 20:38 |
| schestowitz | I had to use VS one afternoon to build it | Nov 02 20:38 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: Microsoft. | Nov 02 20:39 |
| _Hicham_ | VS is speedy compared to gcc | Nov 02 20:39 |
| schestowitz | No GCC powa | Nov 02 20:39 |
| _Hicham_ | it has link time optimization | Nov 02 20:39 |
| schestowitz | But I had to put all the code in one file to build | Nov 02 20:39 |
| schestowitz | I was impatient | Nov 02 20:39 |
| cubezzz | there is icc | Nov 02 20:39 |
| schestowitz | And it didn't build with multiple files | Nov 02 20:39 |
| cubezzz | from intel | Nov 02 20:39 |
| schestowitz | I had never VS before that | Nov 02 20:39 |
| _Hicham_ | MSVC is the best I used on Windows | Nov 02 20:40 |
| schestowitz | icc stuff goes into gcc, oiaohm says | Nov 02 20:40 |
| _Hicham_ | it has great optimization performance | Nov 02 20:40 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, that what intel is planning to do | Nov 02 20:40 |
| cubezzz | we all have voice now? | Nov 02 20:40 |
| _Hicham_ | to boost its moblin project | Nov 02 20:40 |
| cubezzz | almost all | Nov 02 20:40 |
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| *schestowitz gives voice to _Hicham_ amarsh04 merriam PetoKraus | Nov 02 20:49 | |
| *schestowitz removes ban on *!*@*.bigpond.net.au. | Nov 02 20:51 | |
| *schestowitz removes ban on *!*@*.cht.bigpond.net.au. | Nov 02 20:51 | |
| *schestowitz removes ban on *!*@*.bigpond.net.au | Nov 02 20:51 | |
| *schestowitz removes ban on apac!*@* | Nov 02 20:51 | |
| *schestowitz removes ban on *!*@58.165* | Nov 02 20:52 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.mobiletor.com/2009/10/31/wordpress-for-iphone-2-comes-to-app-store/ No Linux phones support?! | Nov 02 20:57 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 02 20:57 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: the main man Hussein does something good http://www.iblnews.com/story/51516 I reckon you saw this. He dumped WIndows :D | Nov 02 20:58 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The White House Site Chooses an Open Source Solution... That Happens to Be Expensive and Ineffective .::. Size~: 53.4 KB | Nov 02 20:58 |
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| schestowitz | SpringSource guy comes to Black Duck... at least not another Microsoft employee..... http://www.iblnews.com/story/51516 | Nov 02 21:00 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The White House Site Chooses an Open Source Solution... That Happens to Be Expensive and Ineffective .::. Size~: 53.4 KB | Nov 02 21:00 |
| schestowitz | Rob Bearden | Nov 02 21:00 |
| schestowitz | http://pr-canada.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=137886&Itemid=61 | Nov 02 21:00 |
| schestowitz | This is HILARIOUS: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/11/01/1340242/The-Most-Influential-People-In-Open-Source | Nov 02 21:02 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Slashdot Technology Story | The Most Influential People In Open Source .::. Size~: 159.94 KB | Nov 02 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Source: Microsoft employees | Nov 02 21:02 |
| schestowitz | They don't name coders | Nov 02 21:02 |
| schestowitz | or people like RMS | Nov 02 21:02 |
| schestowitz | Just some lawyers who can't code, like Asay | Nov 02 21:03 |
| schestowitz | Or Red Hat's Delta guy | Nov 02 21:03 |
| schestowitz | 'It is really the list of "the top influential Executives of the 2009", as is stated further down in the article.' | Nov 02 21:03 |
| schestowitz | Not even that | Nov 02 21:03 |
| schestowitz | Apple fans in the list. Haha. | Nov 02 21:03 |
| cubezzz | Red Hat's Delta guy? | Nov 02 21:04 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Nov 02 21:04 |
| schestowitz | He's not a coder | Nov 02 21:04 |
| schestowitz | So it's not fair to call him influential IMHO | Nov 02 21:04 |
| schestowitz | He only arrived at the scene in 12/2007 | Nov 02 21:04 |
| schestowitz | And Asay... hehe. Never wrote a single line of code in his life. Just bashed FSF types..... | Nov 02 21:05 |
| schestowitz | But... | Nov 02 21:05 |
| schestowitz | Mind the source | Nov 02 21:05 |
| cubezzz | there aren't that many old school unix hackers around | Nov 02 21:05 |
| schestowitz | That's what I love.... it's Mono boosters who came from Microsoft | Nov 02 21:05 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: Maddog | Nov 02 21:05 |
| schestowitz | These lists are generally stupid | Nov 02 21:05 |
| schestowitz | I don't know why peoiple even pay attention to this | Nov 02 21:06 |
| schestowitz | It's really just an ad for mindtouch... and then sucking up to those who like them perhaps | Nov 02 21:06 |
| schestowitz | In exchange they may see Microsoft and Mono glorified, who knows? | Nov 02 21:06 |
| schestowitz | Lists are easy to make | Nov 02 21:07 |
| schestowitz | Those who pay attention to them usually get distracted by publication names and noise/PR like "bossie" this and that | Nov 02 21:07 |
| cubezzz | I found some disparaging remarks from the open source guys on youtube | Nov 02 21:07 |
| cubezzz | "free software" implies shoddy programs | Nov 02 21:08 |
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| schestowitz | Those 'top 10' lists are usually cliques tapping each other on the shoulder for gesture | Nov 02 21:08 |
| schestowitz | Hey, _goblin | Nov 02 21:08 |
| schestowitz | Your RSS feed was broken | Nov 02 21:08 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: not all "open source" guys are the same | Nov 02 21:08 |
| schestowitz | But those who attack GNU are a different, worrying type | Nov 02 21:09 |
| MinceR | are there any crApple fanboys who even _could_ write code? :> | Nov 02 21:09 |
| schestowitz | They are the only 'OSS' people who attack BN | Nov 02 21:09 |
| schestowitz | DRM-loving, let's-hug-Microsoft 'OSS' types | Nov 02 21:09 |
| MinceR | hm, i suspect there are, but we don't hear much of them | Nov 02 21:09 |
| schestowitz | Kumbayah with Stalin... | Nov 02 21:09 |
| schestowitz | They want the pit of the Apple and spit the rest of it | Nov 02 21:10 |
| schestowitz | Trying to toss out gnu/rms | Nov 02 21:10 |
| _goblin | Hi all | Nov 02 21:14 |
| _goblin | Is my RSS feed still off? | Nov 02 21:15 |
| _goblin | mega Python bug fix for Kubuntu 9.10....... | Nov 02 21:15 |
| _goblin | come on...theres got to be at least one Googlewave user here. | Nov 02 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Asay Defend Gangster Group. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10388091-16.html | Nov 02 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Typical | Nov 02 21:18 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Time to upgrade open source perceptions of Gartner | The Open Road - CNET News .::. Size~: 90.81 KB | Nov 02 21:18 |
| schestowitz | He used to criticise them | Nov 02 21:18 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: dunno. It just didn't show new items till today | Nov 02 21:19 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: Google Wave. OK party, but nobody came :-) No-one invited....... | Nov 02 21:19 |
| schestowitz | I remember when gmail required invites | Nov 02 21:20 |
| _goblin | I wish I had invites to give out....I was given mine by an online friend on Twitter called Moldor....nice chap. | Nov 02 21:21 |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=1126 | Nov 02 21:21 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: TechRepublic Blogs: For IT professionals, by IT professionals .::. Size~: 79.41 KB | Nov 02 21:21 |
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| schestowitz | http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-11-02-002-35-RV-SW | Nov 02 21:23 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Linux Today - Vista, Windows 7, Ubuntu 9.04 and 9.10 boot speed comparison .::. Size~: 82.24 KB | Nov 02 21:23 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: I would not use Wave | Nov 02 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Google "FOSS" smells funny | Nov 02 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Like Android and Chrome | Nov 02 21:24 |
| schestowitz | They have different versions | Nov 02 21:24 |
| schestowitz | The one that makes you think it's FOSS | Nov 02 21:24 |
| schestowitz | And then the 'real' version | Nov 02 21:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2009/11/02/tilera_quanta_servers/ | Nov 02 21:28 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Quanta opens servers to 100-core Tilera • Channel Register .::. Size~: 25.18 KB | Nov 02 21:28 |
| *schestowitz gives voice to _goblin amarsh04_ jono | Nov 02 21:29 | |
| *schestowitz has kicked frodos from #boycottnovell (User terminated!) | Nov 02 21:29 | |
| schestowitz | mutex | Nov 02 21:29 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/6890/1/ | Nov 02 21:30 |
| fewa | schestowitz, when the channel is not moderated (+m) you dont have to give voice to everybody | Nov 02 21:31 |
| MinceR | it might let unindendified users speak despite +R though | Nov 02 21:32 |
| MinceR | (i'm not sure) | Nov 02 21:32 |
| schestowitz | Give Me The Dang Button! < http://ubuntu-user.com/Online/Blogs/Marcel-Gagne-Orbiting-Planet-buntu/Give-Me-The-Dang-Button > "Only LinuxMint, in all these distributions, makes it possible for me to do all this without having to install anything special." | Nov 02 21:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Give Me The Dang Button! / Marcel Gagné: Orbiting Planet *buntu / Blogs / Online / Home - Ubuntu User .::. Size~: 56.36 KB | Nov 02 21:32 |
| schestowitz | fewa: thanks. I wasn't sure which flag it was | Nov 02 21:32 |
| schestowitz | fewa: if he goes vocal though, then +m it goes and then it's useful to have the user flags, I guess | Nov 02 21:33 |
| schestowitz | He has been here like a leech for months | Nov 02 21:33 |
| schestowitz | Like 50 nyms | Nov 02 21:33 |
| MinceR | re "Give Me The Dang Button!" -- isn't that what Medibuntu does? :) | Nov 02 21:33 |
| schestowitz | I never used it | Nov 02 21:33 |
| MinceR | iirc Mint uses its repos among others | Nov 02 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Remember Automatix? | Nov 02 21:34 |
| MinceR | faintly | Nov 02 21:34 |
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| MinceR | my problem with Mint is that it includes at least one repo without its public keys and i have no way to find out what public key to add | Nov 02 21:34 |
| schestowitz | It would be funny if some people reading old forum posts tried running Automatix | Nov 02 21:34 |
| schestowitz | _goblin has just reviewed kubuntu http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/kubuntu-9-10-karmic-koala/ | Nov 02 21:35 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Kubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala « OPEN BYTES cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 41.09 KB | Nov 02 21:35 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: you're still on gnome#? | Nov 02 21:35 |
| MinceR | only my thinkpad is on gnome | Nov 02 21:35 |
| MinceR | my eee pc and my work desktop is on kde4 | Nov 02 21:35 |
| MinceR | (4.3 and 4.2 respectively) | Nov 02 21:35 |
| *fewa removes ban on *!*@gateway/web/* | Nov 02 21:35 | |
| schestowitz | gnome stayed away from dependencies on mono worse than it has had for a while | Nov 02 21:35 |
| MinceR | i've managed to make plasma work well with a vertical thin panel | Nov 02 21:36 |
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| MinceR | still, i'm worried about kde -- they still don't quite support the idea of mixing elements of kde with other DE-s | Nov 02 21:36 |
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| MinceR | most recently the plasma tray icon issue | Nov 02 21:36 |
| _goblin | Talking of Kubuntu, I am now seriously considering moving it my main rig... | Nov 02 21:37 |
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| schestowitz | Oh no. I forgot we had that ban on the gateway | Nov 02 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Some readers got a "banned from server" error | Nov 02 21:38 |
| schestowitz | Then mailed me | Nov 02 21:38 |
| *fewa removes ban on *!*n=sondy@*.lns17.ken.bigpond.net.au | Nov 02 21:38 | |
| MinceR | from server? | Nov 02 21:39 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: from chan | Nov 02 21:45 |
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| _goblin | not impressed with the latest Linux Outlaws ep.....rather dull at moment. | Nov 02 21:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] listening to "Krystof Kolesky - Cross The Line (OFFICIAL TUNE)" ♫ http://blip.fm/~fru5f | Nov 02 21:57 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Blip.fm | What are you listening to? .::. Size~: 27.7 KB | Nov 02 21:57 |
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| schestowitz | Hehe. http://www.digitalmajority.org/forum/t-193347/what-has-happened-to-the-rss-feed | Nov 02 22:03 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: News picks: What has happened to the RSS feed .::. Size~: 29.95 KB | Nov 02 22:04 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: I said the same when the raffle came | Nov 02 22:04 |
| schestowitz | popey reponded here | Nov 02 22:04 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Has anyone seen the movie Colin? Seems very interesting... | Nov 02 22:04 | |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : vive Drupal | Nov 02 22:05 |
| _goblin | Ive switched it off now.... | Nov 02 22:07 |
| _goblin | I am watching some Python tutorials....I must be doing something wrong with pyopenGL....I can't believe performance is so poor for a simple gfx routine... | Nov 02 22:08 |
| _Hicham_ | _goblin : do u have a good graphics card ? | Nov 02 22:09 |
| _Hicham_ | do u have 3D acceleration enabled ? | Nov 02 22:09 |
| _goblin | sortof and yes... | Nov 02 22:10 |
| _goblin | Its a simple metaball routine.....it would be nice to get more than 15fps | Nov 02 22:10 |
| schestowitz | http://gcn.com/Articles/2009/10/26/GCN-Lab-Review-Windows-7-Vista-by-another-name.aspx | Nov 02 22:11 |
| schestowitz | "This is the first review I've seen that seems unbiased and disconnected from Microsoft's PR department. Great work!" | Nov 02 22:11 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Windows 7 review: 'New' OS is just Vista with small changes -- Government Computer News .::. Size~: 68.13 KB | Nov 02 22:11 |
| schestowitz | "Hi John, are you going to test Ubuntu? Please publish your results. Here in Panama City, Panama we are closely following your advise." | Nov 02 22:11 |
| schestowitz | "More and more IT departments seem to be willing to allow employees to use alternative operating systems these days. My company allowed me to install Ubuntu last year. Since then about 10% of the employees at my location have moved to Ubuntu. http://www.ubuntu.com/" | Nov 02 22:11 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ubuntu Home Page | Ubuntu .::. Size~: 16.98 KB | Nov 02 22:11 |
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| schestowitz | Windows is #1: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/10things/?p=1126 | Nov 02 22:20 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: TechRepublic Blogs: For IT professionals, by IT professionals .::. Size~: 79.82 KB | Nov 02 22:20 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why if the #FSF globe red? It only encourages the "communism" slur. http://ping.fm/hEVAg | Nov 02 22:24 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Windows 7 Sins mail signatures - LibrePlanet .::. Size~: 12.89 KB | Nov 02 22:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://searchdatacenter.techtarget.com/news/article/0,289142,sid80_gci1372707,00.html | Nov 02 22:29 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Hitler apologises for MP analogy e-mail http://is.gd/4LrDN | Nov 02 22:32 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Hitler apologises for MP analogy e-mail - News of the News .::. Size~: 33.78 KB | Nov 02 22:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard oh yeah... the famous watermelon speech | Nov 02 22:35 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] first day at work went well. ridiculously nice work laptop. also tiny. looking forward to tomorrow. wow. | Nov 02 22:37 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard congrats on the job btw | Nov 02 22:44 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/29/homebrew-head-mounted-linux-system-for-telepresence-looking-sil/ | Nov 02 22:44 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Homebrew head-mounted Linux system for telepresence, looking silly .::. Size~: 89.48 KB | Nov 02 22:44 |
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| oiaohm | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzY2Mw Nice one less problem. | Nov 02 22:49 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: [Phoronix] Skype To Provide Open-Source Linux Client .::. Size~: 15.71 KB | Nov 02 22:49 |
| schestowitz | Cool! | Nov 02 22:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Here is a new computer you can safely take into a sauna ;-) http://ping.fm/nVNCL | Nov 02 22:50 | |
| MinceR | i prefer the 'not going into saunas' approach myself | Nov 02 22:51 |
| schestowitz | But it's the protocol they ought to open | Nov 02 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Protocols even | Nov 02 22:51 |
| MinceR | and that's exactly what they aren't going to open | Nov 02 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Can they not? | Nov 02 22:51 |
| oiaohm | I was thinking from install issues. | Nov 02 22:52 |
| schestowitz | If the code is available.... | Nov 02 22:52 |
| schestowitz | basically they want to carry on controlling the endpoints | Nov 02 22:52 |
| oiaohm | Really with skype there is no techical reason to keep the protocal closed. | Nov 02 22:52 |
| oiaohm | Since users pay to use there servers. | Nov 02 22:52 |
| MinceR | they want to deliver a black box into our machines | Nov 02 22:52 |
| MinceR | and we don't want them to | Nov 02 22:52 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: they haven't quite figure out how to make money | Nov 02 22:52 |
| schestowitz | I don't think being secretive is part of a business plan | Nov 02 22:53 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: they do make some money | Nov 02 22:53 |
| oiaohm | Land line linkage. | Nov 02 22:53 |
| schestowitz | I know | Nov 02 22:53 |
| schestowitz | Not enough | Nov 02 22:53 |
| schestowitz | ebay doesn't want it | Nov 02 22:53 |
| oiaohm | open source client would take the load off ebay in maintaining. | Nov 02 22:53 |
| oiaohm | So making it more possiable that land line linkage might be profitable. | Nov 02 22:54 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Nov 02 22:54 |
| schestowitz | Also more plugins | Nov 02 22:54 |
| schestowitz | From FOSS community | Nov 02 22:54 |
| schestowitz | But what about Ekiga? | Nov 02 22:55 |
| schestowitz | The real FS... GPL | Nov 02 22:55 |
| oiaohm | Lets wait and see. | Nov 02 22:55 |
| oiaohm | Depending on the licence skype protocal might be usable as a Ekiga plugin. | Nov 02 22:55 |
| schestowitz | http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/16199/1/ | Nov 02 22:56 |
| MinceR | i think people should just man up, configure their routers properly and use SIP | Nov 02 22:56 |
| *schestowitz SIPs grog | Nov 02 22:56 | |
| MinceR | or even better, use text-based asynchronous communication over protocols like IRC and XMPP | Nov 02 22:57 |
| oiaohm | People wants just works not having to mess with routers MinceR | Nov 02 22:57 |
| MinceR | and so they operate proxies for others in their homes | Nov 02 22:57 |
| oiaohm | XMPP is a valid future option. | Nov 02 22:57 |
| MinceR | and let skype run any code they want on their computers | Nov 02 22:57 |
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| oiaohm | Remember MinceR opening the client means at less of the client has to be reversed to work out the protocal. | Nov 02 22:58 |
| oiaohm | No more secrets is slowly coming true in the computer world. | Nov 02 22:58 |
| MinceR | they're revealing a very tiny bit of the least relevant part of their secrets | Nov 02 22:59 |
| oiaohm | For the most effectiveness they have to split off the hooks to the system audio as well MinceR | Nov 02 23:01 |
| oiaohm | So really all that is left that is closed is the protocal processing engine. Something that a plugin could be built around into other clients. | Nov 02 23:02 |
| oiaohm | So simplerfying migration to other protocals MinceR | Nov 02 23:03 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Hey! Maybe Microsoft endorses Openbytes? Just found referals coming in from http://tinyurl.com/yhyfogq #microsoft #windows #vista #xp #fail | Nov 02 23:07 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Feeds .::. Size~: 23.77 KB | Nov 02 23:07 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/stories/2009/11/02/1245d301491e | Nov 02 23:12 |
| schestowitz | What's up w/ that? | Nov 02 23:12 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: it's cause you wrote about it | Nov 02 23:14 |
| schestowitz | See the page | Nov 02 23:14 |
| schestowitz | It links back | Nov 02 23:14 |
| schestowitz | Also see http://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/18/visible-technologies-trucast-trupulse/ | Nov 02 23:15 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Visible Technologies Spies on Microsoft Brands Using TruCast/TruPulse, to Control Perception (Updated) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 129.52 KB | Nov 02 23:15 |
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| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/jlundstocholm/statuses/5372291195 | Nov 02 23:18 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Twitter / Jesper Lund Stocholm: @migueldeicaza I suppose a ... .::. Size~: 10.31 KB | Nov 02 23:18 |
| schestowitz | This dude is like s stalker because he does not like being criticised | Nov 02 23:19 |
| schestowitz | I follow ODF news, he's just following things that I write | Nov 02 23:19 |
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| oiaohm | schestowitz: I don't know NZ dollar use to stay inside 10 cents of australian recent years it has drifted away. | Nov 02 23:24 |
| schestowitz | http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/40759 | Nov 02 23:25 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: DtO: Dominitrix Linux TV ad - take 2 | tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 23.72 KB | Nov 02 23:25 |
| schestowitz | I should really read Pete's comics | Nov 02 23:25 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.ubuntugeek.com/install-nvidia-graphics-drivers-190-42-in-ubuntu-karmicjauntyintrepidhardy.html | Nov 02 23:26 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Install Nvidia Graphics Drivers 190.42 in Ubuntu Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy | Ubuntu Geek .::. Size~: 49.65 KB | Nov 02 23:27 |
| schestowitz | TM is So much better. Faster and clearer. | Nov 02 23:28 |
| schestowitz | They upgraded drupal | Nov 02 23:29 |
| schestowitz | I love it! | Nov 02 23:29 |
| oiaohm | What I am looking forward to is the results of all the 3d game development kits coming out of open source | Nov 02 23:29 |
| oiaohm | Games is one of the last areas open source has not build a major foot hold. | Nov 02 23:31 |
| schestowitz | http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/today-i-say-dont-bother/ | Nov 02 23:37 |
| schestowitz | "No, what has me in a funk is really just the fact that most of the interview seemed to be spent asking what chance there is running Windows programs on Ubuntu, or Apple software on Ubuntu. The last question that I remember offhand was whether or not iTunes is available in Ubuntu." | Nov 02 23:37 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Today, I say dont bother « Motho ke motho ka botho .::. Size~: 48.97 KB | Nov 02 23:37 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-ubuntu-9.10-ispconfig-3 | Nov 02 23:44 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Perfect Server - Ubuntu 9.10 [ISPConfig 3] | HowtoForge - Linux Howtos and Tutorials .::. Size~: 43.27 KB | Nov 02 23:44 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: Let's get it on. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/17966.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/531945.html | Nov 02 23:44 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: reddragdiva | Let's get it on. .::. Size~: 27.54 KB | Nov 02 23:44 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: reddragdiva: Let's get it on. .::. Size~: 18.63 KB | Nov 02 23:44 |
| oiaohm | That is a nice tutorial schestowitz | Nov 02 23:44 |
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| schestowitz | http://dieter.plaetinck.be/ext3_logical_partition_resizing | Nov 02 23:53 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: ext3 logical partition resizing | Dieter_be's spot on the web .::. Size~: 37.28 KB | Nov 02 23:53 |
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| schestowitz | mutex again | Nov 02 23:55 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: http://helpforlinux.blogspot.com/2009/10/play-tetris-in-ubuntu-terminal.html | Nov 02 23:56 |
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| schestowitz | mutex (ban-evading) | Nov 02 23:57 |
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| oiaohm | mutex has not got it yet changing handles to hide who you are is an offence on irc. | Nov 02 23:59 |
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