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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 5th, 2009

ender2070even the DSL providers here use bellNov 05 00:00
cubezzzthat's trueNov 05 00:01
ender2070I reported Bell & Rogers to the competition bureauNov 05 00:01
cubezzzbut NCF will give you a better rateNov 05 00:01
ender2070I think they cooperate with each other to "pretend" to competeNov 05 00:01
ender2070I had like several pages with points, facts and theorieNov 05 00:02
ender2070theories*Nov 05 00:02
ender2070if you notice they don't run advertisements that compete with each other, they'll bash each other and be quiet when the other one does itNov 05 00:02
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ender2070the fact that the other DSL providers all provide service cheaper is proof bell overchargesNov 05 00:03
ender2070same lines and serversNov 05 00:03
schestowitzwallc: heyNov 05 00:05
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 00:06
voltronwender2070: are you uninstalling all software written in c? it's a bell technology you knowNov 05 00:06
ThistleWebping _goblin Nov 05 00:07
ender2070bell canada?Nov 05 00:07
cubezzzno :)Nov 05 00:07
ender2070I didn't know Bell Canada wrote CNov 05 00:07
cubezzzBell LabsNov 05 00:07
ender2070im being a doucheNov 05 00:07
ender2070lolNov 05 00:08
ThistleWeb_goblin: was it you who exposed that MS use linux servers for some internal stuff?Nov 05 00:08
voltronwender2070: oh phew, that was close. i thought you were going to have to uninstall your kernelNov 05 00:08
ThistleWebor am I thinking about someone else?Nov 05 00:08
cubezzzcurrently? I know they used to use BSD Nov 05 00:09
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-198-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 00:10
ThistleWebyeah that's hotmailNov 05 00:10
ender2070voltronw - i have nothing against bell labsNov 05 00:10
ThistleWebI saw a blog post about how MS keep their customer data from stuff like Live on windows servers, yet all their critical internal stuff is Linux serversNov 05 00:10
ender2070voltronw - doesnt stop me from removing all traces of mono thoughNov 05 00:11
voltronwender2070: yes, you must protect your precious bodily fluids from contaminationNov 05 00:12
ender2070voltronw - lol, actually Qt is superior and having mono apps is wasting space on my KDE installNov 05 00:12
voltronwender2070: how big is your hd?Nov 05 00:12
ender2070voltronw - 640GBNov 05 00:13
voltronwah yeah, can't fit that 50mb mono dependency on that tiny thingNov 05 00:13
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ender2070voltronw - sounds like you're gonna bring up the arguement I had with an MSFT rep over IE being includedNov 05 00:13
_Hicham_ThistleWeb : I heard that they were using FreeBSD back in 1998 for their hotmail serversNov 05 00:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How #GNU #Linux Compares to #Windows http://bit.ly/2bE3iJNov 05 00:14
phIRCe-localTitle: Keynote comparison: Linux or Windows .::. Size~: 28.63 KBNov 05 00:14
voltronwmy only "argument" is you should run whatever software you wantNov 05 00:14
ThistleWeb_Hicham_: yeah it apparently was BSD before they bought it and ported it to windowsNov 05 00:14
ender2070voltronw - exactlyNov 05 00:14
ender2070voltronw - "wasting space" also means screen space, ever have a dual kde/gnome install? way too many appsNov 05 00:15
_Hicham_are u trying to remove mono ?Nov 05 00:15
voltronwender2070: these apps are taking up screen space even when they aren't open?Nov 05 00:15
voltronwor making your menus too tall?Nov 05 00:15
ThistleWebthe danger / sidekick thang? did that run on windows or unix servers?Nov 05 00:15
ender2070voltronw - menus getting too tallNov 05 00:16
ender2070voltronw - its not about zealotryNov 05 00:16
ender2070i dont even like gtk apps being there if they reproduce something I already useNov 05 00:16
ThistleWebI know MS bought them, or had the contract to store the dataNov 05 00:16
_goblinthistleweb: No....I can't remember who did.Nov 05 00:17
ThistleWebdamn, I'm trying to respond to a blog post and I can't remember detailsNov 05 00:17
_Hicham_senior _goblin, any news ?Nov 05 00:18
ThistleWebhttp://whatwillweuse.com/2009/11/01/in-microsoft-we-trust/#commentsNov 05 00:18
phIRCe-localTitle: In Microsoft We Trust? .::. Size~: 44.02 KBNov 05 00:18
ThistleWebwell, respodning to comments reallyNov 05 00:18
ThistleWebwe have an unusual case of a MS employee actually adding a disclaimer to that fact in his commentNov 05 00:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux #Torrents Used to Defend #FileSharing in General http://ur1.ca/f5iuNov 05 00:19
phIRCe-localTitle: Linux torrents get a mention in landmark court case - AFACT v iiNet, Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft (AFACT), copyright, court case - Computerworld .::. Size~: 98.91 KBNov 05 00:19
*merriam__ (n=merriam@wmerriam.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 00:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Selection of #Screencasts Makes Migration to #GNU #Linux Much Simpler http://ur1.ca/f5iyNov 05 00:21
phIRCe-localTitle: Free Open Source Screencasts for Linux System Administrators and Newbies alike | All about Linux .::. Size~: 75.8 KBNov 05 00:21
_goblin_Hicham: ?Nov 05 00:21
_goblin_Hicham_: ?Nov 05 00:21
ender2070hey roy u there?Nov 05 00:21
schestowitzYupNov 05 00:21
schestowitzWhat's up?Nov 05 00:21
ender2070i need your fantastic memoryNov 05 00:21
*merriam_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Nov 05 00:22
*schestowitz looks for memory stickNov 05 00:22
ender2070the link for tomboy claiming gnote violates patents/copyright, do u know where that is?Nov 05 00:22
schestowitzYesNov 05 00:22
schestowitzHold ob.Nov 05 00:22
schestowitzNot a good time though cause I'm using loads of swapNov 05 00:22
schestowitzLet me fire up konquerorNov 05 00:22
ender2070kkNov 05 00:23
voltronwender2070: http://automorphic.blogspot.com/2009/04/tomboy-0141-future-and-word-about-gnote.html?showComment=1240271760000#c3719937675823376522Nov 05 00:24
phIRCe-localTitle: 5:55 AM: Tomboy 0.14.1, the future, and a word about Gnote .::. Size~: 279.58 KBNov 05 00:24
schestowitzIIRC it was tje noisy guy from OxfordNov 05 00:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New IP-PBX Built on #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/f5j9Nov 05 00:25
phIRCe-localTitle: eOn Communications Intros New IP-PBX Built on Linux .::. Size~: 97.58 KBNov 05 00:25
schestowitzmore in http://mono-nono.com/Nov 05 00:25
phIRCe-localTitle:  mono-nono .::. Size~: 47.08 KBNov 05 00:25
schestowitzre sqlite#Nov 05 00:25
schestowitzHis pointing out of "hypocrisy"Nov 05 00:25
ender2070thanks :)Nov 05 00:25
schestowitzCause mono is about 'ripping off' C/C++ projectsNov 05 00:26
voltronwthere's a different set of benefits and use cases for managed implementations vs linking to object codeNov 05 00:28
_Hicham_mono can't rip off C++ projectsNov 05 00:29
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_Hicham_mono can't compare to valaNov 05 00:29
ender2070John Carr is a mono dev?Nov 05 00:29
voltronw_Hicham_: what do you mean? they're totally different thingsNov 05 00:29
_Hicham_vala has C# syntaxNov 05 00:30
_Hicham_without the overhead of mono stackNov 05 00:30
_Hicham_even with that, people still use C++ for codingNov 05 00:30
_Hicham_or pythonNov 05 00:30
voltronw_Hicham_: vala isn't a runtime, it generates c codeNov 05 00:30
_Hicham_yes, I knowNov 05 00:31
voltronw_Hicham_: what's your point?Nov 05 00:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #MID Comes with #GNU #Linux (and also Windows) http://www.i4u.com/article28060.htmlNov 05 00:32
phIRCe-localTitle: Soyea MID Z5: For The Serious Nerd Only .::. Size~: 24.62 KBNov 05 00:32
_Hicham_voltronw : my point is that mono will a novell only projectNov 05 00:32
_Hicham_it won't gain a communityNov 05 00:32
voltronw_Hicham_: as far as i can tell it has a community right nowNov 05 00:33
_Hicham_community of novell devsNov 05 00:33
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @maxcelcat If politicians were HTTP codes: http://bit.ly/3jvjLNov 05 00:35
phIRCe-localTitle: If Politicians were HTTP Status Codes .::. Size~: 26.61 KBNov 05 00:35
voltronwand there's a vast community of vala developers out there, right?Nov 05 00:35
_Hicham_no, there isn'tNov 05 00:35
_Hicham_gtk devs still prefer C or PythonNov 05 00:36
voltronwstackoverflow.com has 472 questions tagged mono, 5 tagged valaNov 05 00:36
_Hicham_Python is best because of the reduced code sizeNov 05 00:36
voltronw_Hicham_: it's 2009, who still prefers c?Nov 05 00:37
voltronw_Hicham_: python doesn't have threads. that's... kind of a big dealNov 05 00:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Powerful #Server Arrays Run #GNU #Linux on Heaps of Nodes http://bit.ly/2Qg7dNov 05 00:37
phIRCe-localTitle: 3Leaf makes big SMPs out of x64 clusters • The Register .::. Size~: 37.11 KBNov 05 00:37
_Hicham_a lot of peopleNov 05 00:37
_Hicham_a lot of low level functions are still best handled with CNov 05 00:37
voltronw_Hicham_: have you done a lot of low level programming?Nov 05 00:38
_Hicham_noNov 05 00:38
voltronw...Nov 05 00:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at How Fast #GNU #Linux is Growing http://ur1.ca/f5jx good summary from @mjasayNov 05 00:39
phIRCe-localTitle: The difference a few years makes to open source | The Open Road - CNET News .::. Size~: 92.62 KBNov 05 00:39
voltronw_Hicham_: what do you mean by "reduced code size" and why do you feel optimizing for that metric should be the goal of software development?Nov 05 00:40
voltronwdo you means actual lines of code?Nov 05 00:40
voltronwor size of resulting object code?Nov 05 00:40
_Hicham_lines of code of courseNov 05 00:40
voltronwso, less lines of code is better?Nov 05 00:41
ender2070I hear you can fake that stuff by using C and Python togetherNov 05 00:42
voltronwender2070: you "hear"?Nov 05 00:43
ender2070yes, and readNov 05 00:43
ender2070low levels written in C, and Python invoking it when neededNov 05 00:43
voltronwaw, i had a little exercise for _Hicham_Nov 05 00:46
_Hicham_voltronw : ?Nov 05 00:46
voltronwin python, would you prefer to read this:Nov 05 00:47
voltronwreduce(lambda x, y: output.append(input[x:y]) or y, indices + [len(input)], 0)Nov 05 00:47
voltronwor this:Nov 05 00:47
voltronwprev = 0Nov 05 00:47
voltronwfor index in indexes:Nov 05 00:47
voltronw    output.append(list[prev:index])Nov 05 00:47
voltronw    prev = indexNov 05 00:47
voltronwoutput.append(list[indexes[-1]:])Nov 05 00:47
_Hicham_huh, the second of courseNov 05 00:48
voltronwah, so suddenly "reduced code size" isn't that important to youNov 05 00:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Wonderful #Linux #Kernel 2.6.32 Steps Closer to Final Release http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/11/3/377 http://lwn.net/Articles/KernelSummit2009/Nov 05 00:49
phIRCe-localTitle: LKML: Linus Torvalds: Linux 2.6.32-rc6 .::. Size~: 44.96 KBNov 05 00:49
phIRCe-localTitle: The 2009 Linux Kernel Summit [LWN.net] .::. Size~: 11.15 KBNov 05 00:49
_Hicham_reduced code size which is easily maintainableNov 05 00:49
_Hicham_not just reducingNov 05 00:49
_Hicham_readability of the code is more importantNov 05 00:50
voltronwin your experience, do you feel that it's easier to maintain strongly typed languages? or dynamic languages?Nov 05 00:50
DaemonFChttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/abraham/detail??blogid=95&entry_id=50893Nov 05 00:50
phIRCe-localTitle: City Brights: Zennie Abraham  : Unemployment extension delayed by GOP; 200,000 lose benefits  .::. Size~: 48.92 KBNov 05 00:50
_Hicham_dependsNov 05 00:50
voltronwon what does it depend?Nov 05 00:50
_Hicham_projects which are mission critical do not use dynamic languagesNov 05 00:51
_Hicham_using dynamic languages in them is forbiddenNov 05 00:51
_Hicham_everything must be strongly typedNov 05 00:52
_Hicham_to be catched (hopefully) by the compilerNov 05 00:52
voltronw_Hicham_: what are you talking about? tons of places use dynamic languages for mission critical applications every day. i'm doing it right nowNov 05 00:52
_Hicham_example ?Nov 05 00:52
schestowitz[00:33] <_Hicham_> community of novell devsNov 05 00:52
schestowitz=Novell /employees/Nov 05 00:52
schestowitzNot all of them thoughNov 05 00:52
voltronw_Hicham_: there are tons of sites running on ruby/railsNov 05 00:52
voltronw_Hicham_: python/djangoNov 05 00:53
schestowitzsome even worked for MicrosoftNov 05 00:53
schestowitzMindtouch, collier and chumsNov 05 00:53
voltronw_Hicham_: facebook uses php extensivelyNov 05 00:53
_Hicham_voltronw : and u call that mission critical ?Nov 05 00:53
ender2070apparentlyNov 05 00:53
voltronw_Hicham_: what do you call mission critical?Nov 05 00:53
schestowitzDaemonFC: see some videos from Stiglitz about the crisisNov 05 00:53
voltronwi think facebook serving requests is critical to the mission of facebookNov 05 00:54
schestowitzHe has been inside the World Banks. He knows what a total shame it is for slowing down layoffsNov 05 00:54
ender2070look it up in a business dictionaryNov 05 00:54
schestowitzThe Great bank robbery (aka bailout/stimulus) was never designed to resote jobs or prevent further foreclosures at allNov 05 00:55
schestowitzThose behind these scams should be treated no differently than MadoffNov 05 00:55
voltronw_Hicham_: ender2070: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_criticalNov 05 00:55
phIRCe-localTitle: Mission critical - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 18.58 KBNov 05 00:55
ender2070I don't see how that makes us wrongNov 05 00:56
voltronwfacebooks mission is to server webpages and therefore make money. they use php, a dynamic language, to do this.Nov 05 00:56
ender2070and their website goes down a lotNov 05 00:57
ender2070and things breakNov 05 00:57
voltronwbut websites implemented with a staticly typed language don't?Nov 05 00:57
voltronwand not just websites, but software?Nov 05 00:57
ender2070they are less likely toNov 05 00:57
voltronwthat is such a ridiculous statement.Nov 05 00:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KDE Bling, New Release, Steven Pemberton Interview http://ur1.ca/f5le http://ur1.ca/f5lf http://ur1.ca/f5lgNov 05 00:58
phIRCe-localTitle: OMG! UBUNTU!: Quirky Wallpaper Series: KDE Edition .::. Size~: 87.16 KBNov 05 00:58
phIRCe-localTitle: KDE 4.3.3 Out Now: Clockwork | KDE.news .::. Size~: 23.47 KBNov 05 00:58
phIRCe-localTitle: Walled Gardens, Semantic Data and the Open Web: an Interview with Steven Pemberton | KDE.news .::. Size~: 20.55 KBNov 05 00:58
ender2070you're begging the question thoughNov 05 00:58
_Hicham_mission critical is ( to my knowledge ) something in which human lives are involvedNov 05 00:58
_Hicham_like embedded airplanes software for exampleNov 05 00:59
ender2070dynamic vs static have been argued on slashdot for agesNov 05 00:59
_Hicham_industrial machineryNov 05 00:59
ender2070hospital equipmentNov 05 01:00
_Hicham_yesNov 05 01:00
ender2070stuff that has to be "exact"Nov 05 01:00
ender2070correct?Nov 05 01:00
_Hicham_exactlyNov 05 01:00
_Hicham_dynamic languages aren't tolerated in this cases, because there are no excusesNov 05 01:01
_Hicham_it is not like u will have a traceback in case of a problemNov 05 01:01
voltronwender2070: MUMPS has been widely deployed in financial and hospital settings for the past 40 years. it's dynamicly typed.Nov 05 01:01
_Hicham_but rather dead corpsesNov 05 01:02
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_Hicham_which hospital settings ?Nov 05 01:02
voltronw_Hicham_: the united states veteran administration hospital system. the largest hospital system in the united states.Nov 05 01:02
voltronw_Hicham_: any other questions?Nov 05 01:02
ender2070what does it use MUMPS forNov 05 01:03
voltronwLarge companies currently using MUMPS include AmeriPath (now part of Quest Diagnostics), Care Centric, Team Health, Epic Systems Corporation, EMIS, Partners HealthCare, Meditech, and GE Healthcare (formerly IDX Systems and Centricity).Nov 05 01:03
_Hicham_yes, for administrative purposes ?Nov 05 01:03
voltronwender2070: no, to run hospitals top to bottomNov 05 01:03
ender2070thats not what we're talking aboutNov 05 01:03
voltronwMUMPS gained an early following in the financial sector, and MUMPS applications are in use at many banks and credit unions. For instance, it is used by Ameritrade, the largest online trading service in the US with over 12 billion transactions per day, as well as by the Bank of England and Barclays Bank, among others.[Nov 05 01:03
_Hicham_this is still not hospital equipmentNov 05 01:04
_Hicham_if a financial organism stops, will people die ?Nov 05 01:04
voltronwender2070: it runs medications administration, surgeries, takes input from and logs input from hospital equipment that monitors patients vital signsNov 05 01:04
voltronw_Hicham_: if MUMPS stops, hundreds of thousands of people dieNov 05 01:04
ender2070there certainly aren't any dynamicly typed powered software running those robot arms that fix people upNov 05 01:04
voltronwand yet, it's dynamically typedNov 05 01:04
ender2070you're citing one product that might have the money to spend the time making dynamic work in such settingsNov 05 01:05
voltronwender2070: _Hicham_: you guys may have noticed that i've said nothing about being a french pastry chef. the reason for that is that i know absolutely nothing about being a french pastry chef. strangely, this hasn't stopped either of you from talking about software development.Nov 05 01:05
_Hicham_?Nov 05 01:06
ender2070voltronw - no but you can read a recipe and grasp the basic ideaNov 05 01:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] A Look at What's New in #Mandriva 2010.0 http://ur1.ca/f5lz http://ur1.ca/f5m1 My favouritNov 05 01:06
voltronwender2070: no. no you can't.Nov 05 01:06
phIRCe-localTitle: 2010.0 What's New - Mandriva Community Wiki .::. Size~: 66.17 KBNov 05 01:06
ender2070voltronw - for cooking yes, its not that hard and its a bad example to compare against programmingNov 05 01:06
ender2070you should've used a mathematicianNov 05 01:06
ender2070art critics don't always know how to paintNov 05 01:07
ender2070etcNov 05 01:07
voltronwregardless, my point standsNov 05 01:08
ender2070you can put me down, but Hicham knows what hes talking aboutNov 05 01:08
voltronwi've yet to see any evidence of thatNov 05 01:08
ender2070the stuff he has been saying correlates with what i've read regarding the exact same arguments on slashdotNov 05 01:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Want More Champions, Releases #KVM Product http://ur1.ca/f5m9 http://ur1.ca/f5mcNov 05 01:09
phIRCe-localTitle: Red Hat pitches x64 virtualization with KVM rollout • The Register .::. Size~: 35.68 KBNov 05 01:09
voltronwyes. slashdot comments. the highest quality source of information.Nov 05 01:10
ender2070vs you, its the SmithsonianNov 05 01:10
_Hicham_voltronw : i can't get ur point with french chefNov 05 01:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu as a #GNU #Linux #Server Gets More Appeal http://ur1.ca/f5me http://ur1.ca/f5mf http://ur1.ca/f5mgNov 05 01:10
_Hicham_can u be more specific ?Nov 05 01:10
phIRCe-localTitle: Ubuntu 9.10 'Karmic Koala' is here: 5 things CIOs must know - canonical, cloud computing, desktop linux, Linux - CIO .::. Size~: 109.13 KBNov 05 01:10
ender2070slashdot comments, irc quotes, no difference reallyNov 05 01:10
voltronw_Hicham_: the point is you don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about. you make a ridiculous, sweeping statement that is easily proven false. then you do it again. and again.Nov 05 01:11
voltronwyou clearly have some very entrenched ideas about software development and language choice, yet you've arrived at these ideas with almost no basis in reality.Nov 05 01:11
voltronwit's incredibleNov 05 01:11
ender2070read what he has actually saidNov 05 01:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Better Desktop Than #Vista7 -- Claim http://ur1.ca/f4c1 http://ur1.ca/f5mkNov 05 01:12
ender2070he said he has a job doing it, and that it depends on what you're doingNov 05 01:12
phIRCe-localTitle: 5 Reasons why Ubuntu 9.10 is better than Windows 7  - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 139.36 KBNov 05 01:12
phIRCe-localTitle: Is Ubuntu Ready for a Non-tech-savvy Girlfriend? - LaptopLogic.com .::. Size~: 34.84 KBNov 05 01:12
_Hicham_voltronw : wow, nice way to handle a discussion, i thought i was talking to someone who is listening, but ur notNov 05 01:12
voltronwthat vala is taking over the world, only novell employees use mono, and mission critical apps are never written in dynamic languages?Nov 05 01:12
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ender2070jumping to extremesNov 05 01:13
_Hicham_correcting : vala is not taking over the world, never said thatNov 05 01:13
_Hicham_u actually made things upNov 05 01:13
voltronw_Hicham_: what did i make up?Nov 05 01:13
_Hicham_and u jump to conclusions made up from ur head onlyNov 05 01:13
_Hicham_that vala is gonna take over the worldNov 05 01:13
_Hicham_that only novell employees use monoNov 05 01:14
voltronwoh, schestowitz said thatNov 05 01:14
_Hicham_he said what ?Nov 05 01:15
ender2070oh look, voltronw doesnt even know who he is arguing withNov 05 01:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Kubuntu #GNU #Linux 9.10 and #Ubuntu 9.10 Reviews http://ur1.ca/f5mn http://ur1.ca/f5mo http://ur1.ca/f5mpNov 05 01:15
phIRCe-localTitle: Kubuntu Linux 9.10 | Desktop Linux Reviews .::. Size~: 86.91 KBNov 05 01:15
phIRCe-localTitle: IT PRO Reviews | Ubuntu 9.10 review: Karmic Koala .::. Size~: 37.88 KBNov 05 01:15
phIRCe-localTitle: Review: Ubuntu 9.10 first look - The Globe and Mail .::. Size~: 90.67 KBNov 05 01:15
voltronwone of _Hicham_'s initial points was that mono will never have a community, which is insane to me because even if you don't like mono for whatever reason, it's impossible to declare that it wasn't adopted, developed, improved, and used by a widespread community of software developersNov 05 01:17
_Hicham_it is used by companies, yetNov 05 01:17
DaemonFChttp://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-features/44546-infinity-ward-nintendo-wii-fails-to-deliver-qcinematic-experienceqNov 05 01:18
voltronwand he compared vala, which is a niche c pre processor, to c# which is one of the most popular, if not the most popular programming language in use right nowNov 05 01:18
_Hicham_developed by people outside Novell, there might be fewNov 05 01:18
_Hicham_I talked about the syntaxNov 05 01:18
_Hicham_not the runtimeNov 05 01:18
_Hicham_if u do rememberNov 05 01:18
schestowitz[01:14] <voltronw> oh, schestowitz said thatNov 05 01:18
schestowitzNopeNov 05 01:18
voltronwconfused by these statements, i was curious as to what background in software he had. i still am.Nov 05 01:19
*shreddar (i=62f0385c@gateway/web/freenode/x-5bff27ed8b71d420) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 01:19
ender2070someone said C# is the most popular? lol more like infamousNov 05 01:20
voltronwender2070: http://stackoverflow.com/tagsNov 05 01:20
phIRCe-localTitle: Tags - Stack Overflow .::. Size~: 21.59 KBNov 05 01:20
schestowitzender2070: depends where you askNov 05 01:21
ender2070exactlyNov 05 01:21
ender2070im sure m$ heavy tech sites are gonna say c#Nov 05 01:21
voltronwwhat about that site is m$ heavy? it's open to anyone who's enthusiastic about software developmentNov 05 01:22
ender2070i just looked now, and thats not a good benchmarkNov 05 01:23
voltronwc# is the language that people are discussing, almost 2:1 over javaNov 05 01:23
voltronwender2070: what's a better benchmark?Nov 05 01:23
ender2070i dunno, not some site where people are having issues trying to figure stuff out?Nov 05 01:23
ender2070an annoying to use language will have the most activity, due to most amount of help requiredNov 05 01:23
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ender2070first page on C# there, heres one posting:Nov 05 01:24
ender2070"Hello, recently I have been trying my hand at coding a game in C#. I'm not using XNA for this, as I thought I would learn more if I coded the game from scratch (although I am using …"Nov 05 01:24
_Hicham_http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.htmlNov 05 01:24
phIRCe-localTitle: TIOBE Software: The Coding Standards Company .::. Size~: 2.93 KBNov 05 01:24
voltronwthey're choosing it to educate themselves in their spare timeNov 05 01:25
ender2070thats not a benchmark to gauge popularityNov 05 01:25
ender2070as much as pagehits to distrowatch dont mean ubuntu is the bestNov 05 01:25
voltronwender2070: how's your learn c++ in 21 days book coming?Nov 05 01:26
ender2070slow, i've been slackingNov 05 01:26
_Hicham_http://langpop.com/Nov 05 01:26
phIRCe-localTitle: Programming Language Popularity .::. Size~: 39.79 KBNov 05 01:26
ender2070show me a site that shows more active c# projects vs othersNov 05 01:26
_Hicham_codeplexNov 05 01:27
ender2070not noobs asking questionsNov 05 01:27
_Hicham_http://www.codeplex.comNov 05 01:27
ender2070codeplex is too new to have a vast inventory, but it would be interesting to use years from nowNov 05 01:27
ender2070www.sourceforge.netNov 05 01:28
_Hicham_Miguel is a member of CodePlex FoundationNov 05 01:28
voltronwender2070: if you're enthusiastic about learning programming i would highly recommend you spend a lot of time on stackoverflow. there are certainly noobs but there are also brilliant developers discussing extremely advanced topicsNov 05 01:28
ender2070voltronw - thanks for the site, i will use it to learn but i dont think its proof that c# is more popularNov 05 01:28
ender2070thats all im sayingNov 05 01:28
voltronwi don't think there is proof that any language is more popular, or has more jobs posted, or has more lines of code writtenNov 05 01:29
voltronwwhat i do think, is that i can safely say that c#, in the grand scheme of things, is slightly more important than valaNov 05 01:29
ender2070there was a recent poll that hinted python and another scripting lanuage were actually the most popular among those who votedNov 05 01:29
ender2070they hinted that people used c#/java for their jobs and used dynamic scripting lanuages in their free timeNov 05 01:30
_Hicham_Java is probably the most popular on Corporate EnvironmentNov 05 01:30
ender2070cant remember where i read thatNov 05 01:30
cubezzzC, Java and phpNov 05 01:30
voltronwuntil CPython can move past the GIL and py2exe and py2app get much better, python will be a toyNov 05 01:30
ender2070python is badassNov 05 01:30
voltronwi'm speaking as someone who loves python, don't get me wrongNov 05 01:30
voltronwender2070: what features of python do you like?Nov 05 01:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Phones Make Big Leap http://bit.ly/BVhruNov 05 01:32
voltronwender2070: hint: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/101268/hidden-features-of-pythonNov 05 01:32
voltronw(not noobs)Nov 05 01:32
ender2070to be honest i just like what i've read about itNov 05 01:32
phIRCe-localTitle: Hidden features of Python - Stack Overflow .::. Size~: 154.69 KBNov 05 01:32
ender2070lolNov 05 01:32
ender2070im a huge noobNov 05 01:32
ender2070i was considering starting off with python before c++ thoughNov 05 01:32
cubezzzI'm surprised Java is so popularNov 05 01:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Sony #Ericsson Shows off its #Linux #Phone http://ur1.ca/f5o7 http://ur1.ca/f5o9 http://ur1.ca/f5obNov 05 01:35
phIRCe-localTitle: Android phone sports 8.1-megapixel camera - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 65.77 KBNov 05 01:35
phIRCe-localTitle: Total Telecom - Sony Ericsson's first Android phone highlights Microsoft's shortcomings .::. Size~: 61.48 KBNov 05 01:35
phIRCe-localTitle: HEXUS.lifestyle - News :: Sony Ericsson announces its first Android handset: the XPERIA X10 : Page - 1/1 .::. Size~: 38.37 KBNov 05 01:35
cubezzzmost of the gnu stuff is C Nov 05 01:35
_Hicham_Java is used in Corporate EnvironmentNov 05 01:35
voltronwah, _Hicham_'s back with another sweeping generalityNov 05 01:36
_Hicham_Companies still trust J2EE specsNov 05 01:36
voltronwand another one!Nov 05 01:36
ender2070the canadian government uses javaNov 05 01:36
cubezzzfor what?Nov 05 01:37
_Hicham_voltronw : u came here just to troll or what ?Nov 05 01:37
voltronw_Hicham_: i'm interested in the basis of the strong opinions about software that people form, and the basis for those opinionsNov 05 01:37
cubezzzwell for me, C is obviousNov 05 01:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OLPC Moves to #ARM http://bit.ly/4i6FtTNov 05 01:38
phIRCe-localTitle: Negroponte: XO-1.75 goes ARM, XO-2 is canceled - OLPC News .::. Size~: 138.74 KBNov 05 01:38
_Hicham_there are no strong opinionsNov 05 01:38
_Hicham_everyone uses what suits him bestNov 05 01:39
cubezzzsometimes there is no choiceNov 05 01:39
voltronwbut without a depth of knowledge and an open mind, how can you determine what does suit you best? i would contend that you can not.Nov 05 01:39
cubezzzkernel hacking = C languageNov 05 01:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Nokia Should Focus on #GNU #Linux Sub-notebooks http://ur1.ca/f5oqNov 05 01:40
phIRCe-localTitle: Nokia Should Dump U.S. Smartphone Business, Sell Netbooks Instead | BNET Technology Blog | BNET .::. Size~: 55.17 KBNov 05 01:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Litl Apparently Chooses #GNU #Linux for Sub-notebooks http://bit.ly/1OauJhNov 05 01:41
phIRCe-localTitle: US start-up punts family friendly netbook appliance • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 21.75 KBNov 05 01:41
cubezzzbut it's true, it's not practical to use only one language for everythingNov 05 01:41
_Hicham_u don't need a deep knowlege, knowledge is already there, u just need a mindNov 05 01:41
ender2070cubezzz - the kernel will be mono - http://tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-rewrite-kernel-using-monoNov 05 01:41
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 05 01:41
_Hicham_every language is suitable for sthgNov 05 01:42
cubezzzender2070,  404Nov 05 01:42
_Hicham_US Air uses Ada for its defence systemsNov 05 01:42
cubezzzanyone remember APL? :)Nov 05 01:43
_Hicham_this is thought at early courses of software engineeringNov 05 01:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Has Over 30% of GLOBAL Sub-notebooks Market and Growing http://ur1.ca/f5ptNov 05 01:43
phIRCe-localTitle:  Linux's share of netbooks surging, not sagging, says analyst .::. Size~: 136.46 KBNov 05 01:43
ender2070cubezzz - the kernel will be mono - http://www.tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-rewrite-linux-kernel-using-mono (fixed)Nov 05 01:43
phIRCe-localTitle: Ubuntu to rewrite Linux kernel using Mono | TuxRadar .::. Size~: 22.65 KBNov 05 01:43
cubezzzhahahaNov 05 01:44
voltronwit's hard enough  to have a conversation in this channel without the ridiculous bot spamNov 05 01:44
_Hicham_bot spam ?Nov 05 01:44
voltronwseems to add absolutely nothing to the channelNov 05 01:44
_Hicham_hahahahahaNov 05 01:44
voltronwthe auto posted linksNov 05 01:44
cubezzzyeah, I can't argue Nov 05 01:44
cubezzzat least use a different colourNov 05 01:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How Non-Free Software Poisons #Freedom http://bit.ly/4sdBhENov 05 01:45
phIRCe-localTitle:   The Closed Source Detour .::. Size~: 17.8 KBNov 05 01:45
_Hicham_yes, Canonical is gonna rewrite the kernel using Mono, hahahahahahahaha, seen it in April Fool's dayNov 05 01:45
_Hicham_good joke from the site, i liked it at the timeNov 05 01:46
ender2070heheheNov 05 01:46
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voltronw_Hicham_: actually, there's SharpOS which is an open source, ground up managed operating system. and Singularity, which was a microsoft research project towards the same goalNov 05 01:46
DaemonFChttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10390515-37.htmlNov 05 01:46
phIRCe-localTitle: Parallels 5 boasts huge speed improvement | Apple - CNET News .::. Size~: 86.71 KBNov 05 01:47
cubezzzwell, even Stallman makes the point there will always be some closed softwareNov 05 01:47
schestowitzgn for nowNov 05 01:47
ender2070to be honest singularity ended up being useless iircNov 05 01:47
_Hicham_there are a lot of projects like thatNov 05 01:47
ender2070sharpos has been stagnantNov 05 01:47
ender2070nobody wants to write an "unsafe kernel" according to wikipediaNov 05 01:48
_Hicham_what matters for now is the linux kernelNov 05 01:48
voltronwright, as opposed to all those research OSs that are making millions of dollars within 6 months of being startedNov 05 01:48
_Hicham_more and more companies and people are contributing to uitNov 05 01:48
_Hicham_*itNov 05 01:48
ender2070voltronw - if MSFT was going to use it, why release the code everywhere?Nov 05 01:48
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to fewaNov 05 01:48
voltronwit was an r&d projectNov 05 01:49
cubezzzSharpOS's mascot is a shark?Nov 05 01:49
cubezzzanyway, I don't like the look of C#Nov 05 01:49
voltronwthe look of it? what does it look like?Nov 05 01:50
cubezzza microsoft invention, why would I want that?Nov 05 01:50
voltronwi dunno, i owned an acura car, puma sneakers, and levi jeans, why would i want those things?Nov 05 01:51
voltronwi'll tell you why, they won't let me in restaurants without pants and shoesNov 05 01:51
ender2070lol but we dont require c#Nov 05 01:52
ender2070how is that the sameNov 05 01:52
_Hicham_because they won't let him into Microsoft ( maybe ) without C#Nov 05 01:53
_Hicham_isn't voltronw ?Nov 05 01:53
voltronwit was just a jokeNov 05 01:53
voltronwlet's say that microsoft developed something that was great, it was the best, by farNov 05 01:53
voltronwnot necessarily c#, something imaginaryNov 05 01:53
cubezzzdoesn't matterNov 05 01:54
voltronwit would be foolish to judge that negatively based on the sourceNov 05 01:54
_Hicham_IENov 05 01:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - The Multi-Stream Widget Based Thingy | The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/ye9stboNov 05 01:54
phIRCe-localTitle: The Multi-Stream Widget Based Thingy | The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 13.46 KBNov 05 01:54
ender2070are we not allowed to dislike brands?Nov 05 01:54
voltronw_Hicham_: isn't what? i don't work with microsoftNov 05 01:54
cubezzzI know Microsoft's record very well and I choose not to support themNov 05 01:54
_Hicham_why do u support C# then ?Nov 05 01:54
voltronwyou're definitely allowed to dislike brands, i dislike a ton of brands, microsoft being one of themNov 05 01:54
voltronw_Hicham_: i think it has a chance to be a really powerful, useful languageNov 05 01:55
ender2070for some of us its brandingNov 05 01:55
voltronwi was attracted to this channel to hear arguments about why it might not beNov 05 01:55
cubezzzlook at Microsoft's upper managementNov 05 01:55
voltronwso i can make an informed decisionNov 05 01:55
cubezzzenough said Nov 05 01:55
cubezzzvoltronw, I used to use Microsoft in the 80'sNov 05 01:56
ender2070a lot of people dislike microsoft as a brand because of their history and wouldn't want to use their productsNov 05 01:56
cubezzzbefore I understood what they were trying to do, e.g. take over the world's computersNov 05 01:56
voltronwender2070: i liked microsoft encarta for mac when i was a kid, and i like the ms ergonomic keyboardNov 05 01:56
ender2070i started off with ms-dos and win 3.11Nov 05 01:57
voltronwi'll be honestNov 05 01:57
_Hicham_i dislike C# because it is an ugly Java cloneNov 05 01:57
voltronwi've never owned a windows machine thoughNov 05 01:57
_Hicham_MS started .NET to counter JavaNov 05 01:57
_Hicham_when Sun retrieved the licence to use Java's code from thenNov 05 01:57
_Hicham_*themNov 05 01:57
voltronw_Hicham_: often times languages will borrow features from previous languages and improve on the previous language. you do know why c is called c, right?Nov 05 01:57
cubezzzvoltronw, yesNov 05 01:58
voltronwthere are technical and business aspects, of courseNov 05 01:58
_Hicham_improve, not cloneNov 05 01:58
cubezzzwe are suspicious of Microsoft thoughNov 05 01:58
ender2070java and c# are allegedly quite similar, why give a brand you don't like an advantageNov 05 01:58
voltronwcubezzz: i am as suspicious of microsoft as anyoneNov 05 01:58
voltronwalso, is it cool if i say "microsoft" or do i have to say "m$"Nov 05 01:58
_Hicham_at least for Java, we have the sourceNov 05 01:58
cubezzzbefore, I just thought of Microsoft as another companyNov 05 01:59
cubezzzneutralNov 05 01:59
cubezzznow I actively avoid MicrosoftNov 05 01:59
ender2070mono could have done things differently tooNov 05 02:00
cubezzzall the FUD, and they use the word FUD right in their emailsNov 05 02:00
cubezzzFUD from Microsoft mostlyNov 05 02:00
voltronwthat's the other thingNov 05 02:01
voltronwmono was was Free, GPL Free long before javaNov 05 02:01
ender2070mono has non ecma parts stillNov 05 02:01
voltronwthere's no more credible threat to mono from patents than there are to hundreds of other pieces of software on my computer right nowNov 05 02:01
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voltronwi'm tired of people cowering in fear from microsoft wrt monoNov 05 02:02
_Hicham_what other pieces do u have ?Nov 05 02:02
voltronwthis could be the tool we use to break microsoft, but you guys all want to hide under the table because of patentsNov 05 02:02
voltronwit's patheticNov 05 02:02
_Hicham_we are not hiding under the tableNov 05 02:02
_Hicham_these are factsNov 05 02:02
cubezzzno, I don't know enough about it yet voltronwNov 05 02:02
ender2070voltronw - if it was a tool to break microsoft, it wouldn't be playing catchup it would deliberately be breaking compatibility with .NETNov 05 02:03
cubezzzbut I am carefulNov 05 02:03
voltronwender2070: the "playing catchup" line is a mythNov 05 02:03
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ender2070they should revert back to ECMA, stop copying msft and go from there making something better than .NETNov 05 02:03
_Hicham_.NET is not ECMA compliantNov 05 02:04
voltronwi would like to see more poeple using linux than windowsNov 05 02:04
voltronwyou guys agree with that?Nov 05 02:04
ender2070yesNov 05 02:04
voltronwa mono winforms implementation is a tool that can help thatNov 05 02:04
ender2070it goes both ways though with c#Nov 05 02:05
ender2070why use linux when all the good oss apps are for windowsNov 05 02:05
ender2070for the average joeNov 05 02:05
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voltronwender2070: so you think apps like firefox shouldn't release windows versions?Nov 05 02:05
_Hicham_using mono on Linux won't bring more people to itNov 05 02:05
voltronwdoesn't it seem better to say "if you switch away from windows, you can still keep these application you're familiar with"Nov 05 02:05
ender2070well i mean it works both waysNov 05 02:06
_Hicham_releasing software for windows isn't about migrating Nov 05 02:06
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_Hicham_when u release software for Windows, u have a large user baseNov 05 02:06
_Hicham_which eases its adoptionNov 05 02:06
DaemonFChttp://www.engadget.com/2009/06/11/zeos-personal-sleep-coach-makes-money-from-your-insomnia/Nov 05 02:07
phIRCe-localTitle: Zeo's Personal Sleep Coach makes money from your insomnia .::. Size~: 97.83 KBNov 05 02:07
_Hicham_I have put a software on Softpedia on two versions, one for Linux, and one for WindowsNov 05 02:07
_Hicham_the Windows version was download more than three times than the linux versionNov 05 02:07
_Hicham_so u can see that releasing software for Windows is beneficial for the software developerNov 05 02:08
_Hicham_plus, some users still do have to use Windows ( for a bunch of reasons ), though they support LinuxNov 05 02:09
_Hicham_so u can't deprave them from FOSS appsNov 05 02:09
ender2070i agree, i just dont agree its for migrationNov 05 02:09
_Hicham_another reason is that FOSS apps are generally cross-platform by design since they use cross platform toolkitsNov 05 02:10
ender2070firefox hasn't improved linux's numbersNov 05 02:10
cubezzzI don't go around and say "Linux is the only way" :)Nov 05 02:10
voltronw_Hicham_: what software?Nov 05 02:10
cubezzzI just prefer itNov 05 02:10
_Hicham_voltronw : a pre-alpha software, let me find the linkNov 05 02:10
_Hicham_voltronw : here is the windows version, http://www.softpedia.com/get/Security/Encrypting/Advanced-AES-Encrypter.shtmlNov 05 02:11
phIRCe-localTitle: Download Advanced AES Encrypter 0.0.1 - A utility to encrypt/decrypt files using AES (Advanced Encryption Standard) - Softpedia .::. Size~: 54.01 KBNov 05 02:11
ender2070does monodevelop for windows still use .net instead of mono itselfNov 05 02:12
_Hicham_voltronw : and here is linux one : http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Security/Advanced-AES-Encrypter-38691.shtmlNov 05 02:12
phIRCe-localTitle: Download Advanced AES Encrypter 0.0.1 for Linux - Advanced AES Encrypter is a small application created to encrypt/decrypt files using AES (Advanced Encryption Standard). - Softpedia .::. Size~: 49.84 KBNov 05 02:12
cubezzzpeople do get used to certain things and it takes a lot of energy to changeNov 05 02:13
_Hicham_yes, that argument is true cubezzzNov 05 02:13
_Hicham_people are basically against changeNov 05 02:13
cubezzzI started with CP/M for operating systemNov 05 02:14
cubezzzthen MS DOS, Venix, Xenix, Unix System V, AmigaDOS, win95, win98, win2k, LinuxNov 05 02:15
ender2070I started with MS-DOS and 3.11Nov 05 02:15
cubezzzoh and around the year 1998 I tried BeOS :)Nov 05 02:16
ender2070same :)Nov 05 02:16
ender2070i ran win95,98,2k, then linuxNov 05 02:16
_Hicham_i started with mandrakeNov 05 02:16
ender2070i was dual booting 2k with redhat 5.2 thoNov 05 02:16
ender2070kernel 2.4Nov 05 02:16
ender2070reiserfs hypeNov 05 02:16
cubezzzI tried to switch to Linux in 1994 actuallyNov 05 02:17
_Hicham_was excited to use itNov 05 02:17
cubezzzbut didn't stick with it :-/Nov 05 02:17
ender2070i liked mandrake when it was a redhat derivitiveNov 05 02:17
ender2070as for linux i've been around more than hiltonNov 05 02:17
ender2070redhat, suse, mandrake,slackware, gentoo, ubuntu, fedora (current)Nov 05 02:18
cubezzzto be specific I use FC1, Fedora 11 and EmbedixNov 05 02:18
cubezzzso basically all LinuxNov 05 02:19
ender2070fedora core 1?Nov 05 02:19
cubezzzyesNov 05 02:19
ender2070holyNov 05 02:19
ender2070whyNov 05 02:19
ender2070you must have a good reasonNov 05 02:19
cubezzzbecause I know it very well and I use it as a server Nov 05 02:19
cubezzzparts are updated, but not kernelNov 05 02:19
ender2070hmm impressiveNov 05 02:20
ender2070well at least ur not still stuck on redhat 9Nov 05 02:20
cubezzzI have Fedora boxes all over the placeNov 05 02:20
cubezzzright beside me is F11Nov 05 02:21
ender2070I am testing F12 on my notebook atmNov 05 02:21
ender2070F11 on this machineNov 05 02:21
ender2070KDE4 is my desktopNov 05 02:22
_Hicham_im now on F12Nov 05 02:23
ender2070im waiting for F12 RC before i use it hereNov 05 02:23
_Hicham_it works great for meNov 05 02:23
ender2070im sure it doesNov 05 02:24
ender2070runs nicely on my notebookNov 05 02:25
ender2070RC is supposed to be out today, thats why im waitingNov 05 02:25
DaemonFChttp://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/11/october-2009-browser-stats-firefox-finally-passes-ie6.arsNov 05 02:27
phIRCe-localTitle: October 2009 browser stats: Firefox finally passes IE6 - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 42.1 KBNov 05 02:27
ender2070lolNov 05 02:27
ender2070never underestimate the stubbornness of some peopleNov 05 02:27
ender2070to never upgradeNov 05 02:27
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_Hicham_i tried rawhide before alpha releaseNov 05 02:45
_Hicham_it was very unstableNov 05 02:45
_Hicham_tried then the alpha, same stability problems, filed some bugsNov 05 02:45
_Hicham_then tried Beta, and it worksNov 05 02:46
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_Hicham_where is voltroll ?Nov 05 02:48
voltronw_Hicham_: right here man, please don't call me a troll because i disagree with you and actually have real world software development experienceNov 05 02:49
_Hicham_i am sorry, didn't mean to offend uNov 05 02:49
_Hicham_u r talking as being the only one having software development experienceNov 05 02:50
ender2070we can all be trolls sometimesNov 05 02:53
voltronwender2070: yeah, but only you edit your blog after the fact to attempt to try to hide the evidenceNov 05 02:54
_Hicham_DaemonFC : why r u silent ?Nov 05 03:04
DaemonFCbecause I'm deadly tooNov 05 03:04
_Hicham_r u working on sthg ?Nov 05 03:05
ender2070voltronw - I can undelete those entries at any time, i assumed removing them would show lefty enough good will for him to leave me aloneNov 05 03:06
DaemonFC_Hicham_, Not reallyNov 05 03:06
_Hicham_DaemonFC : testing a new kernel ?Nov 05 03:07
DaemonFCnopeNov 05 03:07
ender2070voltronw - i trolled him for a few days, and as a result he is still trolling my blogNov 05 03:07
voltronwender2070: you know that potential employers are going to google your name right? that's the first thing they're going to see.Nov 05 03:08
voltronweverything he posted seems to be a matter of public recordNov 05 03:09
ender2070they are going to see my pseudonameNov 05 03:10
ender2070which won't be on my resumeNov 05 03:10
voltronwender2070: so when i whois you on irc, the name i see listed as your real name isn't your legal name?Nov 05 03:10
ender2070not at allNov 05 03:11
voltronwi'm relieved for you, in that caseNov 05 03:11
ender2070first rule of internet 101Nov 05 03:12
ender2070never give out your real nameNov 05 03:12
*voltronw shrugsNov 05 03:12
voltronwmy rule  101 is not to say anything stupid or untrueNov 05 03:12
voltronwalso, i would have picked a cooler fake nameNov 05 03:13
ender2070i'll give you half trueNov 05 03:13
voltronw"dash smashington" or somethingNov 05 03:13
ender2070i don't have roy's fantastic memoryNov 05 03:13
ender2070when I argue I often can't remember where i got my factsNov 05 03:13
ender2070i read so much stuffNov 05 03:14
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ender2070slashdot, osnews, distrowatch cover so many sources its hard to keep trackNov 05 03:17
voltronwwhat does this get you in the end? that's all wasted time that you could be using to develop skillsNov 05 03:18
voltronwyou could be making that news, but instead you're just consuming itNov 05 03:18
ender2070voltronw - correct, which is why i gave up the trollingNov 05 03:18
voltronwinstall leechblock and learn python, if that's what you want to doNov 05 03:18
ender2070leechblock?Nov 05 03:18
ender2070oh wellNov 05 03:19
ender2070lolNov 05 03:19
ender2070voltronw - good addon, tyNov 05 03:19
ender2070brbNov 05 03:20
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Ender2070voltronw - what was that site you linked earlier with the programming languages?Nov 05 03:29
Ender2070voltronw - the one I said isn't a good benchmark for popularity contestsNov 05 03:30
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Ender2070hey everyoneNov 05 03:43
Ender2070I tried to get back but the server netsplittedNov 05 03:43
Ender2070voltronw - did you get my irc message asking about that siteNov 05 03:49
voltronwnoNov 05 03:50
Ender2070voltronw - what was that coding site you used as an example?Nov 05 03:50
Ender2070I thought I bookmarked it but xmarks didnt sync fast enoughNov 05 03:50
voltronwstackoverflow.comNov 05 03:50
Ender2070tyNov 05 03:51
voltronwhow do you like xmarksNov 05 03:51
Ender2070very handyNov 05 03:51
Ender2070I reformat a lot and bookmarks is always something i overlookNov 05 03:52
voltronwyeah, i actually word for a file synchronization company, i'd love us to get better about handling app-specific dataNov 05 03:52
voltronws/word/work/Nov 05 03:52
Ender2070delicious also has such a tool for firefoxNov 05 03:52
Ender2070theirs is annoying because if you clear your cookies it looses the login infoNov 05 03:53
Ender2070lose*Nov 05 03:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[d235j] RT @gruber: Think about how hard it is to beat umps this crooked.Nov 05 04:20
Ender2070is uncyclopedia a version of wikipedia without moderators?Nov 05 04:22
Ender2070mtNov 05 04:22
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DaemonFCschestowitz, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/04/naked_win7_security/Nov 05 05:44
phIRCe-localTitle: Naked Win 7 still vulnerable to most viruses • The Register .::. Size~: 30.33 KBNov 05 05:44
DaemonFC"Out-of-the-box Windows 7 machines are still vulnerable to eight out of ten viruses, according to a test by security firm Sophos."Nov 05 05:44
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DaemonFChttp://www.trustedreviews.com/mp3/news/2009/11/05/MSN-Music-Returns-With-Download---Streaming-Services/p1Nov 05 05:47
phIRCe-localTitle: MSN Music Returns With Download & Streaming Services - MP3 News - TrustedReviews .::. Size~: 24.61 KBNov 05 05:47
DaemonFCMSN Music resurrected, no DRM this timeNov 05 05:47
_Hicham_greatNov 05 05:48
_Hicham_u wont go to jailNov 05 05:48
DaemonFC_Hicham_, I wonder if they'll try to be a WMA storeNov 05 05:48
DaemonFCor if they learned that lesson tooNov 05 05:48
_Hicham_DRM is used by a lot of companiesNov 05 05:49
_Hicham_copyright laws forces them to do soNov 05 05:49
DaemonFC_Hicham_, BOHICANov 05 05:54
DaemonFCBend Over, Here It Comes AgainNov 05 05:55
*sebsebseb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Nov 05 05:55
_Hicham_I don't care about this laws as long as we can everything in here for $1 or lessNov 05 05:56
_Hicham_there is no drm for usNov 05 05:56
_Hicham_vive freedomNov 05 05:56
_Hicham_DaemonFC : still playing sauerbraten?Nov 05 05:59
DaemonFCsometimesNov 05 05:59
_Hicham_so ur a FPS gamer only ?Nov 05 06:00
_Hicham_no stealth games ?Nov 05 06:00
DaemonFCnot reallyNov 05 06:00
DaemonFCI used to play RPGs til they ruined all of themNov 05 06:00
DaemonFCor turned them into some online cash whoreNov 05 06:00
DaemonFCKOTOR and KOTOR II were the last passable RPGs I've playedNov 05 06:01
_Hicham_did u try nexuiz ?Nov 05 06:01
DaemonFCyeahNov 05 06:01
_Hicham_what games did u like, from all the family of games available on Linux?Nov 05 06:02
DaemonFCI think you named all two of themNov 05 06:02
DaemonFCthere's really not a lot on LinuxNov 05 06:03
DaemonFCThere's a couple ports, but those tend to run slower than the Windows version in WineNov 05 06:03
DaemonFCI'm not saying that's a Linux problem, it's just what you get when someone makes a halfassed portNov 05 06:03
DaemonFCDOOM 3 was a great example of a port gone wrongNov 05 06:04
_Hicham_there is urban terrorNov 05 06:04
_Hicham_alien arenaNov 05 06:04
DaemonFCWine and the Windows version of it ran at least 10% faster than the native Linux clientNov 05 06:04
DaemonFCthe only reason you would ever want to run most of these Linux ports natively is so that they (might) recognize your stuff, like gamepad or microphone a little easierNov 05 06:05
Ender2070www.wesnoth.orgNov 05 06:05
DaemonFCyou can tell that Linux was a distant third priority for a lot of the stuff that has been portedNov 05 06:05
DaemonFCIt makes Linux look bad when the Windows version is running rings around it even if it's the developer's faultNov 05 06:06
DaemonFCthey really go through and optimize their Windows client, in some ways I don't even think that is possible with LinuxNov 05 06:06
Ender2070gallium3d will change thatNov 05 06:06
_Hicham_the port isn't as good as the original version, usuallyNov 05 06:07
DaemonFCcause you have to reduce everything to the oldest or buggiest version of any package or library anyone out there is likely to have, that you're linking toNov 05 06:07
_Hicham_MSVC can optimize more on WindowsNov 05 06:07
DaemonFCexactly, there's usually only one version of one library you need to link to on WindowsNov 05 06:07
DaemonFCeveryone who has Windows has itNov 05 06:07
DaemonFCand you're doneNov 05 06:07
Ender2070the windows library gets updated rarelyNov 05 06:08
Ender2070thats also bad at the same timeNov 05 06:08
DaemonFCEnder2070, They get updated, but you just don't see it usuallyNov 05 06:08
DaemonFCa lot of Windows functionality is kind of a "sandwich"Nov 05 06:09
Ender2070how many games worked from xp to vista with no issuesNov 05 06:10
Ender2070they break api too, it just takes them longer because they are slowNov 05 06:10
DaemonFCYou run Windows 7, you have DirectX 11, but all your DirectX 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, and 5 stuff still worksNov 05 06:10
Ender2070tell me why sins of a solar empire crashesNov 05 06:10
Ender2070and not on vistaNov 05 06:10
DaemonFCand maybe even some earlier stuffNov 05 06:10
DaemonFCrare exceptionNov 05 06:10
Ender2070theres a lot of themNov 05 06:10
DaemonFCbitch at them to hurry up with the patchNov 05 06:10
Ender2070me and you run the latest shit, but a lot of people dontNov 05 06:10
DaemonFCtry the app compatibility wizardNov 05 06:10
Ender2070i dont care enough about video gamesNov 05 06:10
_Hicham_I make a software prototype using OpenGL to render some 3D graphics. MSVC executable was like 10 faster than gcc's oneNov 05 06:11
_Hicham_so, it is a question of optimization alsoNov 05 06:11
_Hicham_the compiler plays a big role in thatNov 05 06:11
_Hicham_hopefully, gcc-4.5 will have Link Time OptimizationNov 05 06:11
_Hicham_which will greatly improve programs performanceNov 05 06:11
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Ender2070however at the same time you should look into gallium3dNov 05 06:11
DaemonFCEnder2070, I have Windows 95 software that still works on Windows 7Nov 05 06:12
Ender2070yes and most of my stuff works fine too on win7 rcNov 05 06:12
DaemonFCI've only ran into a few problems, but nothing that just would not work no matter what I didNov 05 06:12
Ender2070most stuff worksNov 05 06:12
Ender2070rare programs dontNov 05 06:12
DaemonFCI don't doubt that there's some stuff out there that just won't run, but I don't seem to have anyNov 05 06:13
DaemonFCI even installed MS Office 95 just for the hell of itNov 05 06:13
Ender2070especially programs where they used secret api's that microsoft didnt tell anyone about, they often change those a lotNov 05 06:13
DaemonFCit's dangerous to depend on thoseNov 05 06:13
Ender2070yes but some devs are just stupidNov 05 06:13
DaemonFCI wouldn't use them on any software I wanted to live longer than that Windows releaseNov 05 06:13
Ender2070because theres some software out there like thatNov 05 06:13
Ender2070my gaming box hardly ever gets turned onNov 05 06:14
DaemonFClike I said, bad idea to use undocumented APINov 05 06:14
DaemonFCGoogle Chrome does itNov 05 06:14
Ender2070yeahNov 05 06:15
Ender2070i dont know why they do th atNov 05 06:15
DaemonFCthey even reverse engineered kernel32.dll in VistaNov 05 06:15
DaemonFCthat led to a minor scandalNov 05 06:15
Ender2070they probably wanted to find out how IE cheats at loading so fastNov 05 06:15
Ender2070lolNov 05 06:15
DaemonFCEnder2070, I think they said that they wanted to use some security features IE was hooking into that Microsoft left undocumentedNov 05 06:15
DaemonFCrelating to Protected ModeNov 05 06:16
Ender2070hmmNov 05 06:16
Ender2070i wonder if that wasnt really just for chrome frameNov 05 06:16
DaemonFCEnder2070, IE loads faster than the others, but once it's up, it loads pages 5-6 times slowerNov 05 06:16
DaemonFCand sometimes chokes halfway through rendering oneNov 05 06:16
Ender2070ahhhNov 05 06:16
Ender2070thanks for letting me knowNov 05 06:16
Ender2070havent used IE in yearsNov 05 06:16
DaemonFCso it's a horrible browser, they just preloaded an instance on system startupNov 05 06:17
Ender2070i wonder what norton will doNov 05 06:17
Ender2070you can actually remove IE from win7Nov 05 06:17
DaemonFCany browser could do that, but IE obviously is using dlls that are loaded already anywayNov 05 06:17
Ender2070norton's gui is IE based, very cleverly hiddenNov 05 06:17
DaemonFCso you don't see your memory usage increase all that muchNov 05 06:17
DaemonFCEnder2070, Meh, there's no reason toNov 05 06:18
DaemonFCall the security vulnerabilities are still thereNov 05 06:18
Ender2070i've removed it from my gaming boxNov 05 06:18
DaemonFCwhy not leave the browser?Nov 05 06:18
Ender2070i simply dont want that bullshit even installedNov 05 06:18
DaemonFCthe IE engine is still loaded Nov 05 06:18
Ender2070nopeNov 05 06:18
Ender2070not in win7Nov 05 06:18
DaemonFCthe shell uses it, Windows Live Messenger uses itNov 05 06:18
Ender2070if you remove it, the engine disappearsNov 05 06:19
Ender2070oh really?Nov 05 06:19
DaemonFCwithout IE installed, open WLMNov 05 06:19
Ender2070perhaps only MS can use itNov 05 06:19
DaemonFCand then look in task managerNov 05 06:19
DaemonFCnopeNov 05 06:19
Ender2070world of warcraft launcher was brokenNov 05 06:19
Ender2070no IE elementsNov 05 06:19
DaemonFCEnder2070, There's a lot of third party browsers that can use IE's engine even if IE is "removed"Nov 05 06:19
DaemonFCWinamp can use itNov 05 06:19
DaemonFCso can Maxthon browserNov 05 06:19
Ender2070damnNov 05 06:19
Ender2070i was excited that i finally got my wishNov 05 06:20
Ender2070but i didntNov 05 06:20
DaemonFC99.9% of IE is there and loaded even if you "remove" the browserNov 05 06:20
Ender2070are you speaking of experience?Nov 05 06:20
DaemonFCit's not worth taking IE out because you still get all the disadvantages IE brings without being able to load it in a pinch if something needs itNov 05 06:20
Ender2070when I took IE out, any app that tried to force IE open failedNov 05 06:21
Ender2070which i likedNov 05 06:21
Ender2070cause wow launcher always invokes IE, even if firefox is defaultNov 05 06:21
DaemonFCEnder2070, Yeah, that part will happenNov 05 06:21
Ender2070other apps invoke IE too when I dont want it EVER to openNov 05 06:21
DaemonFCnothing can load IE as IE, but anything can embed TridentNov 05 06:21
Ender2070hmmNov 05 06:22
Ender2070well its not too importantNov 05 06:22
Ender2070as I said, my gaming box hardly gets turned onNov 05 06:22
DaemonFCI used to remove IE totally from Windows 98/MeNov 05 06:22
DaemonFCand jsut find a different browser to useNov 05 06:22
Ender2070still running the free win7 from the summerNov 05 06:22
DaemonFCnow so damned many things embed it, that it's not really possible to kill itNov 05 06:22
Ender2070i was hoping microsoft was gonna do thatNov 05 06:23
DaemonFCI have the RTM versionNov 05 06:23
Ender2070for the good of allNov 05 06:23
DaemonFCI got the RTM version on July 24Nov 05 06:23
Ender2070im not giving microsoft my moneyNov 05 06:23
Ender2070and im not pirating itNov 05 06:23
DaemonFCbut that PC died, this one came with the systemNov 05 06:23
DaemonFCactually Vista did, but the Windows 7 disc was freeNov 05 06:23
DaemonFCso it got here on Oct 23, a day after it launchedNov 05 06:24
Ender2070my dell notebook doesnt even have a windows licenseNov 05 06:24
DaemonFCEnder2070, It's just a simple BIOS modificationNov 05 06:24
Ender2070i got an ubuntu notebookNov 05 06:24
Ender2070DaemonFC - im not a pirateNov 05 06:24
DaemonFCmehNov 05 06:25
DaemonFCI've paid Microsoft for too much already reallyNov 05 06:25
Ender2070they got one xp license out of me, for an earlier dell notebook i purchasedNov 05 06:25
Ender2070back when all notebooks had windowsNov 05 06:25
Ender2070my mom has it now, with xpNov 05 06:26
Ender2070oh, I also got a vintage windows 3.11 license and ms-dos 6.22 licenseNov 05 06:26
Ender2070I got them shipped to me for a gmail invitation a few years backNov 05 06:26
Ender2070the floppies are still shrink wrappedNov 05 06:27
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DaemonFChttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/q138349/Nov 05 06:42
phIRCe-localTitle: Windows 95 Installation Requirements .::. Size~: 38.37 KBNov 05 06:42
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cubezzzlol, 4 megsNov 05 06:44
DaemonFChttp://www.trustprice.com/554655/microsoft-microsoft-windows-95.htmlNov 05 06:44
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft Microsoft Windows 95 OSR 2.0 OEM (Microsoft A23-00021) : TRUSTprice .::. Size~: 16.54 KBNov 05 06:44
DaemonFChttp://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/win7Nov 05 06:45
cubezzzwell, at least O'Reilly gets to sell more booksNov 05 06:47
DaemonFCEnder2070, The difference between Windows 95 and 7 as far as I can tell....Nov 05 06:47
DaemonFC95 (at the time) felt new and powerfulNov 05 06:47
DaemonFC7 just feels like they pulled Vista out of the recycle binNov 05 06:47
DaemonFC:)Nov 05 06:47
DaemonFCmy aunt asked me about Windows 7 and I told her it's not worth buying the upgrade Nov 05 06:49
DaemonFCjust wait til it comes with a new computer anywayNov 05 06:49
cubezzzI'm glad to be out of itNov 05 06:50
DaemonFCupgrade discs are kind of a relic from when a PC was much more expensiveNov 05 06:50
DaemonFCall said, I think Windows 7 should have been like $30-40Nov 05 06:51
*merriam__ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Nov 05 06:51
DaemonFClike Windows 98 SE or Windows Me Promo Step Up (for Win 98 users)Nov 05 06:51
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cubezzzsounds awfulNov 05 06:53
DaemonFCit's just not a full upgrade over VistaNov 05 06:55
cubezzzit does show me something about Fatalism thoughNov 05 06:55
DaemonFCthey got away with charging obscene upgrade prices for 95-XP for various reasonsNov 05 06:55
DaemonFCcomputers were expensive, they had no credible competitionNov 05 06:56
DaemonFCand 95 and XP were something newNov 05 06:56
DaemonFCmore or less anywayNov 05 06:56
cubezzzin 1995 there was Linux, BSD, BeOSNov 05 07:00
cubezzzalso GeoWorks EnsembleNov 05 07:00
DaemonFClike I said, no credible competition, especially where Linux was back thenNov 05 07:01
DaemonFCBeOS was already on the road to nowhereNov 05 07:01
cubezzzand I'm bound to say OS/2 warpNov 05 07:01
DaemonFCBSD is still not something most humans want to use on a desktopNov 05 07:01
DaemonFCOS/2 Warp fell apartNov 05 07:01
DaemonFCEnsemble? Are you kidding?Nov 05 07:01
DaemonFCB-)Nov 05 07:01
DaemonFCThe Mac? Maybe kinda sorta. Probably not.Nov 05 07:02
cubezzzonly because you're so fixated on Microsoft Nov 05 07:02
DaemonFCcubezzz, Maybe I don't like to pay double what a computer should cost, only to have them change architectures 2-3 years out and fuck me over Nov 05 07:03
cubezzzI'm not suggesting you use MacNov 05 07:03
cubezzzI'm merely pointing out the alternativesNov 05 07:03
DaemonFCcubezzz, If you bought a Mac in 1995, it would very likely have been a Motorola 68k in itNov 05 07:03
DaemonFCPPC didn't start until like 1996Nov 05 07:03
DaemonFCthen everyone who bought into that got the OS ripped out from underneath them in 2000 for a (then) buggy and incomplete OS XNov 05 07:04
DaemonFCafter that was out of the way, 5 years later, Apple transitions to x86 after making fun of it for yearsNov 05 07:04
DaemonFCand suddenly x86 is the best thing everNov 05 07:05
DaemonFCbetter than sexNov 05 07:05
cubezzzSun4's in the late 80's were far better than any windows 95 PCNov 05 07:05
cubezzzbut probably not very affordableNov 05 07:05
DaemonFCApple's track record says you're far better off with Windows on a PCNov 05 07:05
DaemonFCApple breaks _everything_ every few yearsNov 05 07:06
DaemonFCgood thing they don't really have a lot of software to worry about breakingNov 05 07:06
cubezzzI never even mentioned AppleNov 05 07:06
DaemonFCOh noez, they broke Myst!!!Nov 05 07:06
DaemonFCNow what will I stare at and melt my brain with? :DNov 05 07:07
Ender2070did someone say os/2 warpNov 05 07:11
cubezzzyes, I mentioned it as an alternative to win95Nov 05 07:12
Ender2070yeah it was much betterNov 05 07:12
Ender2070os/2 kicked ass and took namesNov 05 07:12
cubezzzif I was to do things over again I would have went CP/M -> Unix and AmigaDOS -> LinuxNov 05 07:13
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cubezzzwhatever :)Nov 05 07:13
Ender2070i would have went os/2 warp 3, warp 4, linuxNov 05 07:14
cubezzzalthough I probably would have had to use MS DOS until 386's became affordableNov 05 07:14
Ender2070instead of dos/win 3.11, win95, win98, win2k, linuxNov 05 07:14
Ender2070i had a 386Nov 05 07:15
Ender2070warp3 ran on itNov 05 07:15
Ender2070but by the time i had warp3 it was deadNov 05 07:15
Ender2070i got my 386 in 1996Nov 05 07:15
Ender2070i didnt even know about linux until 1999 when it was featured in Toronto ComputesNov 05 07:16
Ender2070or i would've run some incarnation back in 96Nov 05 07:16
cubezzzI had no such excuseNov 05 07:18
Ender2070cubezzz wanna see nostalgia in RL?Nov 05 07:18
cubezzzI actually did Linux tutoring in 1994Nov 05 07:18
cubezzzokNov 05 07:19
Ender2070http://homeward.homestead.com/index.htmlNov 05 07:19
Ender2070os/2 warp 4 powered bbsNov 05 07:19
Ender2070still operationalNov 05 07:20
cubezzzyours?Nov 05 07:20
Ender2070noNov 05 07:20
Ender2070its in my area thoughNov 05 07:20
Ender2070it has like 80 cd romsNov 05 07:21
Ender2070full of sharewareNov 05 07:21
Ender2070you can request software from different cd's and he actually changes them every dayNov 05 07:21
cubezzzyeah, even though my store sold OS/2 warp I never used it very muchNov 05 07:21
Ender2070my dad had some store and he warned me against os/2 saying i would never find driversNov 05 07:22
cubezzzthat was my Linux/Minix problemNov 05 07:22
cubezzzback in 1994Nov 05 07:22
Ender2070ahhhNov 05 07:22
Ender2070lame hardwareNov 05 07:22
Ender2070or too proprietary?Nov 05 07:23
cubezzznow I'm trying to think what happened with Unix System VNov 05 07:23
cubezzzI think it just had cursesNov 05 07:23
cubezzzEnder2070, I couldn't get the cd rom to work Nov 05 07:23
cubezzzat the timeNov 05 07:23
Ender2070i remember when cdroms were a luxuryNov 05 07:24
Ender2070i had to install win95 off of floppiesNov 05 07:24
cubezzzwell in 1994 I didn't really have internet Nov 05 07:24
cubezzzthe local freenet started up in Toronto in 1994Nov 05 07:25
Ender2070i got it in 97 but it didnt helpNov 05 07:25
cubezzzbut I didn't clue into that until laterNov 05 07:25
cubezzzyeah, I got on in Jan 1996Nov 05 07:25
Ender2070i was using 3.11 in 97Nov 05 07:25
cubezzzno "start me up" :)Nov 05 07:26
Ender2070my 386 couldnt handle muchNov 05 07:26
Ender20708mb ramNov 05 07:26
Ender207030mb hard driveNov 05 07:26
Ender207014.4k modemNov 05 07:26
cubezzzso when was the first time you tried *nix?Nov 05 07:26
Ender20701999Nov 05 07:26
Ender2070redhat 5.2Nov 05 07:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Napster Goes #FreeSoftware http://bit.ly/11KaOgNov 05 07:27
phIRCe-localTitle: Open Source Napster Resurrected After 8-Year Dormancy | Epicenter | Wired.com .::. Size~: 72.18 KBNov 05 07:27
cubezzzI'm launching a CD on tunecore todayNov 05 07:28
Ender2070ran it on a 486 DX4 100MHZ monsterNov 05 07:28
cubezzzmade with all Linux toolsNov 05 07:28
Ender207048mb of ram, 12 gb hard drive i thinkNov 05 07:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Sydney University Expert Wants #FreeSoftware for #EHealth http://ur1.ca/f68cNov 05 07:29
cubezzzdid you stick with it since 1999?Nov 05 07:29
phIRCe-localTitle: Professor issues proprietary e-health warning - News - Communications - ZDNet Australia .::. Size~: 87.84 KBNov 05 07:29
cubezzzor did you go back to the "dark side"? :)Nov 05 07:29
Ender2070oh no, it was a 6.4gb quantum driveNov 05 07:29
Ender2070i stuck with itNov 05 07:29
cubezzzI only ask because you mentioned win2kNov 05 07:30
Ender2070win2k was 99Nov 05 07:30
tessierHow are things in BNland today?Nov 05 07:30
tessierI saw more Microsoft layoffs on the TV at the gym. Nov 05 07:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Comparison Between Free/Libre CMSs: #Plone and #Drupal http://bit.ly/YpT7kNov 05 07:31
phIRCe-localTitle: Print Story .::. Size~: 10.02 KBNov 05 07:31
Ender2070oh wait im offNov 05 07:31
Ender2070i had win2k first, and redhat later that yearNov 05 07:32
Ender2070so it was 2000Nov 05 07:32
Ender2070then i got suse 5.3 which came on 5 cdsNov 05 07:32
Ender2070didnt have a cd burnerNov 05 07:33
Ender2070but it was sold for like $80 w/ a huge bookNov 05 07:34
Ender2070vs $300 for windowsNov 05 07:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Blender Game Competition 2010 http://bit.ly/38QZoSNov 05 07:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #BobYoung Video on #FreeSoftware http://bit.ly/1dSsTgNov 05 07:34
phIRCe-localTitle: Free Gamer - open source games: Blender Game Competition 2010 .::. Size~: 111.49 KBNov 05 07:34
phIRCe-localTitle: Central Valley Business Times .::. Size~: 22.88 KBNov 05 07:34
Ender2070remember corel linuxNov 05 07:35
Ender2070lolNov 05 07:35
cubezzzyes, but I never used itNov 05 07:36
Ender2070i tried one version, never booted the installNov 05 07:37
cubezzzdidn't realize fidonet was still kickingNov 05 07:38
Ender2070yeah lolNov 05 07:38
cubezzzI can't remember now what Linux used for video drivers in 1994Nov 05 07:40
cubezzzI don't even remember running X back thenNov 05 07:41
cubezzzEnder2070, I remember seeing Redhat boxes in futureshopNov 05 07:41
cubezzzoh well tunecore isn't very Linux friendlyNov 05 07:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free/Libre Software Saves Money http://bit.ly/3xyHINov 05 07:44
phIRCe-localTitle: The Eyeopener Online .::. Size~: 13.13 KBNov 05 07:44
Ender2070toronto freenet is still upNov 05 07:46
cubezzzyesNov 05 07:47
Ender2070http://www.torfree.net/Nov 05 07:47
cubezzzyou should get your broadband from them or NCFNov 05 07:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Hungary Could Save Millions by Moving on to #FreeSoftware http://bit.ly/19UCwONov 05 07:53
phIRCe-localTitle: Open source software could help firms .::. Size~: 23.79 KBNov 05 07:53
Ender2070really?Nov 05 07:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #PinkArmy Cooperative and Johns Hopkins University go for #FreeSoftware http://ur1.ca/f695 http://ur1.ca/f696Nov 05 07:54
phIRCe-localTitle:  Pink Army Cooperative Uses Open Source Principles to Treat Breast Cancer  .::. Size~: 30.86 KBNov 05 07:54
cubezzzsure why not, save some moneyNov 05 07:55
cubezzztornet is very liberal, no filtering, good for a serverNov 05 07:55
Ender2070i dont see broadband on their siteNov 05 07:56
cubezzzumm, let's see...Nov 05 07:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Modding One's Hardware Treated Like Crime http://ur1.ca/f69d http://ur1.ca/f69eNov 05 07:58
phIRCe-localTitle: Guy Who Helped Mod Cable Modems Arrested By The FBI | Techdirt .::. Size~: 135.63 KBNov 05 07:58
phIRCe-localTitle: Feds Charge Cable Modem Modder With Aiding Computer Intrusion | Threat Level | Wired.com .::. Size~: 90.72 KBNov 05 07:58
cubezzzok, NCF then ;)Nov 05 08:00
cubezzzweird, the broadbank links seem to have vanishedNov 05 08:00
cubezzzhttp://www.ncf.ca/Nov 05 08:01
Ender2070oh i found it on torfreeNov 05 08:02
Ender2070not badNov 05 08:02
cubezzzI think NCF is a little cheaperNov 05 08:02
Ender2070however im moving soon i dont think i can get dslNov 05 08:02
Ender2070i might have to use wimaxNov 05 08:03
cubezzzhow much does that cost?Nov 05 08:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gershwins Think #Copyright Law is a Welfare Service http://techdirt.com/articles/20091102/0401476761.shtml Sad, I liked GershwinNov 05 08:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] TechDirt Demonstrates New Business Model http://techdirt.com/articles/20091028/0348476705.shtmlNov 05 08:06
phIRCe-localTitle: Gershwin Heirs Fight Over Copyright Royalties | Techdirt .::. Size~: 72.52 KBNov 05 08:06
phIRCe-localTitle: Results From Our CwF+RtB Business Model Experiment | Techdirt .::. Size~: 124.55 KBNov 05 08:06
Ender2070like $50Nov 05 08:07
Ender2070unfortunatelyNov 05 08:07
Ender2070for 3mbpsNov 05 08:07
Ender2070now its like having rogers in 2002Nov 05 08:08
Ender2070lolNov 05 08:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Book Shows How Hollywood #MAFIAA CHanges the Law http://ur1.ca/f69tNov 05 08:08
phIRCe-localTitle: Big Content: Using "moral panics" to change copyright law - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 50.45 KBNov 05 08:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ACTA Leaked, People Are Hopping Mad http://ur1.ca/f69w http://ur1.ca/f69x http://ur1.ca/f3yb http://ur1.ca/f69yNov 05 08:10
phIRCe-localTitle: More ACTA Details Leak: It's An Entertainment Industry Wishlist | Techdirt .::. Size~: 88.92 KBNov 05 08:10
phIRCe-localTitle: Leaked ACTA Internet Provisions: Three Strikes and a Global DMCA | Electronic Frontier Foundation .::. Size~: 25.69 KBNov 05 08:10
phIRCe-localTitle: Secret copyright treaty leaks. It's bad. Very bad. - Boing Boing .::. Size~: 431.81 KBNov 05 08:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Gene Monopoly (Patent) on Saving People from #Cancer Challenged http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/11/genes/Nov 05 08:17
phIRCe-localTitle: Judge OKs Challenge to Human-Gene Patents | Threat Level | Wired.com .::. Size~: 100.6 KBNov 05 08:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Hungary Can Save £269,000,000 with #FreeSoftware -- Group http://ur1.ca/f6a8Nov 05 08:18
phIRCe-localTitle: Ditch Microsoft, Save £269m Says Hungarian Open Source Group - News - eWeekEurope.co.uk .::. Size~: 25.34 KBNov 05 08:18
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FUD Against #FreeSoftware Becomes Risky Territory http://www.itwire.com/content/view/29010/1090/Nov 05 08:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Threat is Proprietisation of the Platform http://bit.ly/NkFU6Nov 05 08:20
phIRCe-localTitle: Is open source selling out? - Community - ComputerworldUK .::. Size~: 80.22 KBNov 05 08:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] As More #Microsoft Programmers Laid Off, Microsoft Loses the Plot with Patches http://bit.ly/3HcSpNNov 05 08:22
phIRCe-localTitle: Patch and Patch Again | ITworld .::. Size~: 79.39 KBNov 05 08:22
*schestowitz has kicked zoezeo from #boycottnovell (User terminated!)Nov 05 08:24
schestowitzmutexNov 05 08:24
schestowitzban-evadingNov 05 08:24
schestowitz[07:30] <tessier> I saw more Microsoft layoffs on the TV at the gym. Nov 05 08:34
schestowitztessier: yes, BN had an exclusiveNov 05 08:34
schestowitzBN was the only site on the Web to write about this round of layoffs 12 days agoNov 05 08:34
schestowitzThere is more to come because Microsoft cannot keep up profits. It dumps to fight adoption of Free software. (i.e. no profit)Nov 05 08:34
schestowitzhttp://www.openxtra.co.uk/blog/the-talebanisation-of-software/ "Would you also class Jeremy Allison as a member of the taliban? He wrote this piece recently:"Nov 05 08:40
schestowitzLOLNov 05 08:40
phIRCe-localTitle: The talibanisation of software .::. Size~: 68.56 KBNov 05 08:40
cubezzzwhat does that mean?Nov 05 08:41
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 08:43
schestowitzcubezzz: the Mono proponents compare BN to terroristsNov 05 08:54
schestowitzAnd others who oppose mono tooNov 05 08:54
Ender2070gotta love this oneNov 05 09:00
Ender2070http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/08/15/c-is-just-so-last-year/Nov 05 09:00
phIRCe-localTitle: The Open Sourcerer  » C# Is just SO Last Year .::. Size~: 49.67 KBNov 05 09:00
Ender2070schestowitz - who wrote that we are terroristsNov 05 09:02
tessierschestowitz: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9140343/Linux_s_share_of_netbooks_surging_not_sagging_says_analystNov 05 09:05
phIRCe-localTitle:  Linux's share of netbooks surging, not sagging, says analyst .::. Size~: 136.54 KBNov 05 09:05
schestowitzhttp://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/bentley/ftc-extends-red-flag-rule-compliance-deadlineagain/?cs=37211Nov 05 09:10
phIRCe-localTitle: FTC Extends Red Flag Rule Compliance Deadline...Again | Blogs | ITBusinessEdge.com .::. Size~: 81.62 KBNov 05 09:10
schestowitztessier: I was just gonna write about itNov 05 09:10
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tessierschestowitz: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/10/30/Nov 05 09:52
phIRCe-localTitle: Penny Arcade! - In The Seventh House .::. Size~: 7.78 KBNov 05 09:52
tessierYou see that the other day?Nov 05 09:52
tessierI though it was amusing.Nov 05 09:52
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schestowitztessier: "expected" -> "Vista" :-)Nov 05 10:09
oiaohmhttp://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1333542  Its starting to seam like MS media department is this mouse.Nov 05 10:15
phIRCe-localTitle:  15 minutes of glory - Blender Artists Forums .::. Size~: 143.55 KBNov 05 10:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] How Micro-4/3 and better compact sensors will kill the DSLR (HT @petapixel) http://j.mp/4a8yNrNov 05 10:16
phIRCe-localTitle: Death of the DSLR Camera - Gearlog .::. Size~: 202.16 KBNov 05 10:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 as Insecure as Predecessors, Shows #Sophos http://ping.fm/XRxhuNov 05 10:17
phIRCe-localTitle: Vista 7 as Insecure as Predecessors, Shows Sophos | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 95.26 KBNov 05 10:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Confirmed: #Microsoft Publicly Lies About Market Share of #GNU #Linux http://ping.fm/ISu70Nov 05 10:18
phIRCe-localTitle: Confirmed: Microsoft Publicly Lies About Market Share of GNU/Linux | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 99.83 KBNov 05 10:18
oiaohmMain reason for me wanting a SLR is the means to hold on to the bugger.Nov 05 10:18
schestowitzoiaohm: Microsoft? Where in Blender?Nov 05 10:18
oiaohmI was meaning the picture at how badly MS marketing is getten beaten up schestowitz.  They are like a mouse with a large mic and most people know they are a mouse so don't listern schestowitzNov 05 10:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @Karoli  @xavierla : Republicans Introduce Health Insurance Profits Protection Act: http://ur1.ca/f6h5 #p2 #hcr #gop | gd title || LOL!Nov 05 10:27
phIRCe-localTitle: Alliance for a Better Minnesota  |  Xavier Lopez-Ayala's Blog: BREAKING NEWS: Republicans Introduce Insurance Industry Protection Act .::. Size~: 42.49 KBNov 05 10:27
oiaohmI have also noticed that all my eopen licences have been coverted to Windows 7 supporting licences with no charge.Nov 05 10:30
oiaohmNext question will MS count those as sales of Windows 7Nov 05 10:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Weiner Amendment Vote - a game and we are being played. http://bit.ly/1Xd87h #HCR #singlepayer #hc09Nov 05 10:35
phIRCe-localTitle: Daily Kos: Friday Weiner Saturday Healthcare Votes .::. Size~: 23.2 KBNov 05 10:35
*magentar (n=magentar@ip-109-90-128-158.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 10:42
oiaohmhttp://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/bizarre_cathedral_57  This one is perfect.Nov 05 10:44
phIRCe-localTitle: The Bizarre Cathedral - 57  .::. Size~: 35.56 KBNov 05 10:44
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/nov/04/microsoft-job-cuts "Is this why Jack is not as overtly pro-Microsoft as previously?"Nov 05 10:45
schestowitzLOLNov 05 10:45
schestowitz[10:30] <oiaohm> Next question will MS count those as sales of Windows 7Nov 05 10:45
schestowitzOf course they willNov 05 10:45
schestowitzEverything that counts of vanity, willNov 05 10:45
schestowitzSome Vista 'sales' are not salesNov 05 10:45
schestowitzIf you buy a PC with Vista and shift to XP it then counts as 2 Vista salesNov 05 10:46
schestowitzIn reality, none is usedNov 05 10:46
oiaohmschestowitz:  the big thing is if they count them as Windows 7 sales they will count them as full rrp against tax.Nov 05 10:48
schestowitzOh, I see...Nov 05 10:56
schestowitzWell, normal tax rules don't apply to MicrosoftNov 05 10:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Universities up for Sale; Can Martin Bean Keep #Google Away? http://ping.fm/7qkwz #microsoft #lockinNov 05 10:56
phIRCe-localTitle: Universities up for Sale; Can Martin Bean Keep Google Away? | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 93.98 KBNov 05 10:56
oiaohmNote all my eopen licences are for charities to keep costs down schestowitzNov 05 11:02
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Andrew #Cuomo Should Sue and Punish #Microsoft for Same Crimes as #Intel http://ping.fm/SeNhNNov 05 11:38
phIRCe-localTitle: Andrew Cuomo Should Sue and Punish Microsoft for Same Crimes as Intel | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 98.35 KBNov 05 11:38
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*fewa has changed the topic to: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Register with nickserv to speak http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetupNov 05 12:06
*ChanServ has changed the topic to: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged]Nov 05 12:06
*ChanServ sets mode +t #boycottnovellNov 05 12:06
*ChanServ removes channel operator status from fewaNov 05 12:06
fewawutNov 05 12:07
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04Nov 05 12:12
amarsh04http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2009/s2734145.htmNov 05 12:13
phIRCe-localTitle: The World Today - Letting the gene out of the bottle 05/11/2009 .::. Size~: 25.91 KBNov 05 12:13
amarsh04about gene patentsNov 05 12:15
fewathey dont even mention the historyNov 05 12:18
fewathat patents on life are bannedNov 05 12:18
fewaand always have beenNov 05 12:18
amarsh04are you in .au fewa?Nov 05 12:18
fewaohhhhhhNov 05 12:18
fewano, USNov 05 12:18
fewathis is where such ludacris things startedNov 05 12:18
amarsh04back in a few minutes... quitting irc on both machines then reconnecting on the other machineNov 05 12:21
*amarsh04 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 05 12:21
fewapackages.debian.org/zncNov 05 12:21
fewahttp://packages.debian.org/zncNov 05 12:21
oiaohmDNA stuff is become a major issue.  Since dna tests are starting to decide if particular drugs will work or not.Nov 05 12:21
phIRCe-localTitle: Debian -- Package Search Results -- znc .::. Size~: 17.61 KBNov 05 12:22
*amarsh04__ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))Nov 05 12:22
fewaStiglitz talked about how such patents add no value http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzhD7KVs-R4Nov 05 12:22
fewasomewhere in the middleNov 05 12:23
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp118-210-99-31.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 12:23
amarsh04Yes, I notice new gene sequencing packages appearing in DebianNov 05 12:25
amarsh04s/notice/noticed/Nov 05 12:25
fewasequencin?Nov 05 12:25
fewaI've seen sequencing machinesNov 05 12:25
fewathey are not cheapNov 05 12:25
fewanot something everybody can ownNov 05 12:25
fewaand the general sequence is already doneNov 05 12:26
fewa(not each persons differences)Nov 05 12:26
fewaits all available onlineNov 05 12:26
fewahttp://www.ensembl.org/Nov 05 12:27
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 307 Temporary Redirect .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 05 12:27
schestowitzInteresting how Microsoft is now described as communism and FOSS as capitalism: http://www.the-source.com/2009/11/open-source-politics/Nov 05 12:29
phIRCe-localTitle:   Open Source Politics .::. Size~: 16.77 KBNov 05 12:29
schestowitzfewa: but if the assumption is that patent=monopoly money=more money for 'research', then they can try to contract with propagandaNov 05 12:30
schestowitzAward systems would be goodNov 05 12:31
schestowitzI watched the whole 40-min thing yesterday, as well as about 6 moreNov 05 12:31
schestowitzAfter that he becomes repetitiveNov 05 12:31
amarsh04did you look at the link I posted schestowitz?Nov 05 12:35
amarsh04I'm glad that the Australian Broadcasting Corporation does transcriptsNov 05 12:36
oiaohmThe arguements for closed source are basically the same ones for patents fewaNov 05 12:37
amarsh04"monetizing", oiaohm?Nov 05 12:39
oiaohmI remember hearing all the ones saying that Linux destroying Unix market share was impossiable.Nov 05 12:39
oiaohmBecause Linux would not get the money to do research.Nov 05 12:39
oiaohmThere is more than one way to fund research.Nov 05 12:41
amarsh04and having people who just want things to work better can help with the "research"Nov 05 12:44
oiaohmOpen trade in information can provide better data to test ideas with.Nov 05 12:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Google Dashboard reveals private data - Channel 4 News http://tinyurl.com/yzvvd6gNov 05 12:45
phIRCe-localTitle: Google Dashboard reveals private data - Channel 4 News .::. Size~: 36.31 KBNov 05 12:45
oiaohmBiggest problem with patents is companies who patent hord items that could undermine there main market.  Like oil companyes and effective engines.Nov 05 12:45
oiaohmPatents should be use them or lose them.Nov 05 12:46
*zer0c00l is now known as zer0c00l|AwayNov 05 12:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenSource Subsumed by #Microsoft and #Blackboard http://ping.fm/0jsOQNov 05 12:46
phIRCe-localTitle: Open Source Subsumed by Microsoft and Blackboard | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 104.79 KBNov 05 12:46
*wallc (i=62a521f3@gateway/web/freenode/x-cab1a6733af54278) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 13:01
amarsh04http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2009/s2734145.htmNov 05 13:05
phIRCe-localTitle: The World Today - Letting the gene out of the bottle 05/11/2009 .::. Size~: 25.8 KBNov 05 13:05
amarsh04oops, wrong linkNov 05 13:05
amarsh04http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091028211001746Nov 05 13:06
phIRCe-localTitle: Groklaw - Novell and Microsoft both file summary judgment motions in the WordPerfect antitrust case .::. Size~: 40.18 KBNov 05 13:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Are #Microsoft Employees (Technical Evangelists) Using #Spammers in #Twitter? http://ping.fm/wTqqxNov 05 13:29
phIRCe-localTitle: Are Microsoft Employees (Technical Evangelists) Using Spammers in Twitter? | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 95 KBNov 05 13:29
schestowitzamarsh04: thanksNov 05 13:38
schestowitzSee http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Making_IShellBrowser_internal%3B_%22intentionally_break_those_apps%22Nov 05 13:38
phIRCe-localTitle: Making IShellBrowser internal; "intentionally break those apps" - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 13.2 KBNov 05 13:38
schestowitzThat's what Novell needsNov 05 13:38
schestowitzMaybe Novell lawyers can cite BN ;-)Nov 05 13:38
schestowitzwallc: you there?Nov 05 13:39
schestowitzHehe. More 'protection': http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8344174.stmNov 05 13:43
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 81.25 KBNov 05 13:43
schestowitzhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8342277.stmNov 05 13:44
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 81.23 KBNov 05 13:44
*MikeyC (i=c35ce14f@gateway/web/freenode/x-530c7c6c7c20538a) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 13:50
schestowitzWhy don't more people boycott Intel? http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1561249/intel-accused-bribery-coercionNov 05 13:50
schestowitzHey, MikeNov 05 13:50
schestowitzhttp://linuxcrunch.com/content/thunderbird-won-franceNov 05 13:53
phIRCe-localTitle: Thunderbird won in France | We love Linux ! .::. Size~: 20.93 KBNov 05 13:53
schestowitzhttp://gigaom.com/2009/07/30/is-googles-android-killing-windows-mobile/Nov 05 13:53
phIRCe-localTitle: Is Googles Android Killing Windows Mobile?   .::. Size~: 143.4 KBNov 05 13:54
schestowitzhttp://linuxgazette.net/168/nielsen.htmlNov 05 13:55
phIRCe-localTitle: Setting up a MySQL Cluster for your Linux desktop LG #168 .::. Size~: 41.52 KBNov 05 13:55
*zer0c00l|Away is now known as zer0c00lNov 05 13:56
amarsh04thanks schestowitz, someone already referenced that email on groklaw.netNov 05 13:59
schestowitzI knowNov 05 13:59
schestowitzHe mailed meNov 05 13:59
schestowitzhttp://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20091028211001746&title=wow&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=798603#c798605Nov 05 14:00
schestowitzhttp://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20091028211001746&title=O%2FT%3A+Chicago%2FCapone%2FMarvel&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=798603#c798610Nov 05 14:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Groklaw - Digging for Truth .::. Size~: 16.14 KBNov 05 14:00
phIRCe-localTitle: Groklaw - Digging for Truth .::. Size~: 16.16 KBNov 05 14:00
schestowitzNow it's getting funNov 05 14:00
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 05 14:00
schestowitzoiaogm just missed this one: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/04/cisco_q1_fy_2010_earnings/Nov 05 14:03
phIRCe-localTitle: Cisco profits slip 19%, but pass 'tipping point' • The Register .::. Size~: 28.39 KBNov 05 14:03
schestowitzMikeyC: you there?Nov 05 14:05
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*effffig (i=c096b146@gateway/web/freenode/x-916d56da7d23c53d) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 14:07
*schestowitz gives voice to amarsh04 amarsh04_ Diablo-D3 effffigNov 05 14:09
*schestowitz gives voice to fewa ikonia jmpnop LnsNov 05 14:09
*schestowitz gives voice to magentar merriam__ MikeyC MinceRNov 05 14:09
*schestowitz gives voice to PetoKraus popey Python132O tessierNov 05 14:09
*schestowitz gives voice to voltronw wallc zer0c00l zubNov 05 14:09
schestowitzOh cr*Nov 05 14:09
schestowitzIt seems like the Web portal won't let people speak without voiceNov 05 14:10
MikeyChey royNov 05 14:10
schestowitzHeyNov 05 14:10
schestowitzwallc: you there?Nov 05 14:10
zer0c00lwhat happened?Nov 05 14:10
zer0c00l+vvvvv ?Nov 05 14:10
schestowitzNo ideaNov 05 14:10
MikeyChow you getting on in the cross trainerNov 05 14:10
zer0c00lwhat does that mean?Nov 05 14:10
effffigtestNov 05 14:10
schestowitzcr*pNov 05 14:10
schestowitzBasically, bcause of the mutex troll we set a flag that must have caused issuesNov 05 14:11
zer0c00llolNov 05 14:11
schestowitzALso for BNc and BNiNov 05 14:11
schestowitzzer0c00l: were you blocked before?Nov 05 14:11
*schestowitz gives channel operator status to fewaNov 05 14:12
zer0c00lschestowitz: noNov 05 14:12
zer0c00lschestowitz: why?Nov 05 14:12
schestowitzI reckon some people here tried to speak and were obstructedNov 05 14:12
zer0c00lschestowitz: okNov 05 14:12
zer0c00lschestowitz: The identi.ca bot is dead?Nov 05 14:13
zer0c00lschestowitz: the one which posts updates hereNov 05 14:13
schestowitzTrolls-induced disruptionNov 05 14:13
schestowitzzer0c00l: try nowNov 05 14:13
schestowitzI think it should workNov 05 14:13
zer0c00lok :)Nov 05 14:13
schestowitzThanks.Nov 05 14:13
schestowitzMikeyC: can you paste here what was blocked before?Nov 05 14:13
*effffig has quit ("Page closed")Nov 05 14:14
schestowitzwallc: are you there?Nov 05 14:14
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/05/bbc_website_problems/Nov 05 14:15
phIRCe-localTitle: BBC website now unbroked • The Register .::. Size~: 24.47 KBNov 05 14:15
schestowitzfewa: how can this voice flag thing no longer clog up voices?Nov 05 14:16
fewaits not suppose to matterNov 05 14:16
fewathey just have to be registeredNov 05 14:16
fewaaka /msg nickserv register <email> <password>Nov 05 14:16
fewaand then /msg nickserv identify <password>Nov 05 14:17
schestowitzHow come it worked before?Nov 05 14:17
schestowitzDoes it only allow registered one to speak?Nov 05 14:17
fewathats what +R doesNov 05 14:17
schestowitzBecause we had people come here and try to talkNov 05 14:17
schestowitzLike Silva.. of ODFNov 05 14:17
fewafreenode should message you and tell you that you cant send to channelNov 05 14:18
schestowitzI think wallc was denied speech also... and they are not notified about itNov 05 14:18
fewaI tested and it workedNov 05 14:18
schestowitzJust goes into chasmNov 05 14:18
wallcHi Roy, I'm here, just doing other tasks away from the computer...I'm here with my coffee now  :)Nov 05 14:18
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Faculty devel program by TCE on FOSS: https://foss.tce.edu/ Nov 30 - Dec 4th ; sponsor FOSSEE , MHRDNov 05 14:18
fewawallc, here you loud and clearNov 05 14:18
schestowitzwallc: question:Nov 05 14:18
schestowitzDid you message in the past day or two?Nov 05 14:18
schestowitzCause we saw nothingNov 05 14:19
schestowitzOr were you quiet?Nov 05 14:19
*test1234 (i=c096b146@gateway/web/freenode/x-619ee02bc48d5602) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 14:19
schestowitz"#boycottnovell Please register with services and use the IDENTIFY command (/msg nickserv help) to speak in this channel"Nov 05 14:20
wallcI wrote a couple of comments, but i never worry if no one answers, i just assume folks are busy...Nov 05 14:20
schestowitzIt shows up separately, which is confusing (ina  tab about status)Nov 05 14:20
schestowitzwallc: they didn't show upNov 05 14:20
*schestowitz has changed the topic to: Communication about anything, including Microsoft, Novell, and Free software [publicly logged] | Register with nickserv to speak http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetupNov 05 14:21
*schestowitz sets mode -R #boycottnovellNov 05 14:21
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test1234test 1234Nov 05 14:21
schestowitzOKNov 05 14:22
*test1234 has quit (Client Quit)Nov 05 14:22
wallcmy comments didn't show up?  Darn, the ONE time I say something useful and profound, and it doesn't show up!  I'm sooo upset...(yes, I'm joking  :)Nov 05 14:22
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04Nov 05 14:23
schestowitzwallc: anyone, it's sorted now. Nobody ignored you anyway, just didn't see the message/sNov 05 14:24
wallcI know...it's fine, really.  :)  Nov 05 14:24
schestowitzHmmmm... could Microsoft do what it did in Taiwan again to ASUS..? http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/11/05/asus_smartbook_delay/Nov 05 14:24
phIRCe-localTitle: Asus delays 'smartbook' release • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 21.3 KBNov 05 14:24
schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20091103/0345006779.shtmlNov 05 14:26
phIRCe-localTitle: Time For Palm To Drop WebOS And Embrace Android | Techdirt .::. Size~: 91.6 KBNov 05 14:26
*MikeyC has quit ("Page closed")Nov 05 14:27
schestowitzhttp://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2009/11/law_professor_s.htmNov 05 14:28
phIRCe-localTitle: Technology & Marketing Law Blog: Law Professor Sues Over 'Above the Law' Blog Posts--Jones v. Minkin .::. Size~: 25.43 KBNov 05 14:28
schestowitzCopyright for censorshipNov 05 14:28
schestowitzhttp://techdirt.com/articles/20091104/1304516798.shtmlNov 05 14:36
phIRCe-localTitle: EMI Sues Music Site Offering Beatles MP3s | Techdirt .::. Size~: 41.58 KBNov 05 14:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Red Hat disables antifeature: http://ping.fm/PiVadNov 05 14:44
phIRCe-localTitle: Red Hat virtualization: No Windows Server 2008, RHEL management - SearchServerVirtualization Blog .::. Size~: 51.78 KBNov 05 14:44
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sebsebsebhiNov 05 14:51
schestowitzHeyNov 05 14:56
schestowitzhttp://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/11/startup_guru_don_dodge_among_those_laid_off_in_microsoft_cuts.html?ana=from_rssNov 05 14:57
phIRCe-localTitle: Startup guru Don Dodge among those let go in Microsoft cuts .::. Size~: 49.49 KBNov 05 14:57
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #ssh transport library for !Java http://ur1.ca/f73sNov 05 14:58
phIRCe-localTitle: JSch - Java Secure Channel .::. Size~: 20.21 KBNov 05 14:58
schestowitzTodd thought he had an "Exclusive" with what BN reported 2 weeks ago.... http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/11/more_microsoft_job_cuts_coming.html?ana=from_rssNov 05 14:58
phIRCe-localTitle: Exclusive: More Microsoft layoffs .::. Size~: 45.25 KBNov 05 14:58
schestowitzhttp://www.prwatch.org/node/8671Nov 05 15:01
phIRCe-localTitle: Pinkwashing Turns on Itself with Breast Cancer Awareness Gun | Center for Media and Democracy .::. Size~: 81.25 KBNov 05 15:01
Diablo-D3yay its backNov 05 15:03
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schestowitzyes, we found the problemNov 05 15:12
schestowitz+R flagNov 05 15:12
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] LOL RD: @schestowitz: Red Hat disables antifeature: http://ping.fm/PiVadNov 05 15:13
phIRCe-localTitle: Red Hat virtualization: No Windows Server 2008, RHEL management - SearchServerVirtualization Blog .::. Size~: 51.78 KBNov 05 15:13
schestowitzhttp://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/csiro-bid-to-gag-emissions-trading-scheme-policy-attack/story-e6frg8gf-1225793355139Nov 05 15:16
phIRCe-localTitle: CSIRO bid to gag ETS policy attack |  The Australian .::. Size~: 53.15 KBNov 05 15:16
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schestowitzhttp://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7599/1.htmlNov 05 15:21
schestowitzamarsh04: see http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/csiro-bid-to-gag-emissions-trading-scheme-policy-attack/story-e6frg8gf-1225793355139Nov 05 15:21
phIRCe-localTitle: CSIRO bid to gag ETS policy attack |  The Australian .::. Size~: 53.15 KBNov 05 15:21
schestowitzCSIRO does evil againNov 05 15:21
schestowitzNot with swpats this time (or wifi)Nov 05 15:22
amarsh04yes, I heard about it on ABC radio schestowitzNov 05 15:22
schestowitzBTW...Nov 05 15:22
schestowitzDoesn't the AUssie ABC conflict with the name of US ABC?Nov 05 15:22
amarsh04there have been a few too many cases of groupthink at the CSIRONov 05 15:23
*zer0c00l is now known as zer0c00l|AwayNov 05 15:24
amarsh04no, neither is the Blackwood Bowls Club conflicting with the British Broadcasting CorporationNov 05 15:24
schestowitzBut they are not both in the same fieldNov 05 15:27
schestowitzLike Ubuntu restaurant vs IR UbuntuNov 05 15:27
schestowitzHmmmmmm... Carla's CLI skillz make Linux look intimidating, as she usually makes it seem..  http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/11/getting-the-sca.htmlNov 05 15:29
phIRCe-localTitle: Linux Today Blog .::. Size~: 90.34 KBNov 05 15:29
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DaemonFChttp://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1561310/ballmer-half-heartedly-talks-windowsNov 05 15:35
schestowitzOld ya!Nov 05 15:36
schestowitz*Old ya!Nov 05 15:36
schestowitz>ToldNov 05 15:36
DaemonFC"It is helping to spur PC sales... um... in Japan. We've had a great response... in Japan. The first ten days were bigger than the first ten days of XP or Vista or any other Windows launch that we have done... in Japan."Nov 05 15:36
DaemonFCTrue he was talking to a Japanese news conference, but it is rare that the great man is that specific. If it was really doing well in Japan and everywhere else we would expect him to start waving his arms, flinging chairs and shouting, "I rule the world, baby!"Nov 05 15:36
DaemonFClmaoNov 05 15:36
schestowitzTheir silence is deafening.Nov 05 15:36
schestowitzYou'd expect them to make a lot of noise after week 1Nov 05 15:37
schestowitz"We sold 999999999999999 copies..."Nov 05 15:37
schestowitzDaemonFC: Japan is there Linux gave the thumbsupNov 05 15:37
DaemonFCschestowitz, XP launch sales were the last thng they could brag aboutNov 05 15:37
schestowitz!google linus japan windows 7Nov 05 15:37
phIRCe-local[1] - Linus Torvalds gives Windows 7 a big thumbs up | http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/23/linus-torvalds-gives-windows-7-a-big-thumbs-up/Nov 05 15:37
phIRCe-local[2] - Japan Window$ 7 & Linus | http://picasaweb.google.com/cschlaeger/JapanLinuxSymposiumNov 05 15:37
phIRCe-local[3] - united colours of vruz - Linus at Windows 7 launch, Japan !! photo:... | http://vruz.tumblr.com/post/221167121/linus-at-windows-7-launch-japan-photoNov 05 15:37
phIRCe-local[4] - Linus Torvalds gives Windows 7 a big thumbs up | http://digg.com/microsoft/Linus_Torvalds_gives_Windows_7_a_big_thumbs_upNov 05 15:37
DaemonFCschestowitz, I don't know why they're worried about illegal aliens being covered by the health care bill (they won't)Nov 05 15:45
DaemonFCWe're paying for them either way with the law saying that emergency rooms have to treat youNov 05 15:45
DaemonFCit would actually probably save us money to cover them :PNov 05 15:46
tessierDaemonFC: I think so tooNov 05 15:56
DaemonFCtessier, I support raids, deportations, and massive fines for their employersNov 05 15:57
DaemonFCThere's a legal process to be followedNov 05 15:57
DaemonFCI can't just hike across the Canadian border and say "I'm here, give me free health care and a job!", can I?Nov 05 15:58
DaemonFCNo other country in the world would put up with this. Why do we?Nov 05 15:58
DaemonFCI was in court one day for a Class C Misdemeanor (Of which the charge was dropped), but there was an illegal alien in there too, and he was in there for a D Felony and the judge gave him a slap on the wristNov 05 16:00
DaemonFCshe starts "suspended sentence" this, "show up for counseling" thatNov 05 16:01
DaemonFCthe prosecutor asked if they should notify ICE, and the judge said "No, but if they come here looking, we'll comply"Nov 05 16:01
DaemonFCso this guy who just got convicted of a felony will just disappear, take up a new name somewhere else, have a clean record, never be punished, and find a new jobNov 05 16:02
DaemonFCthey basically get to come here and work around pretty much all our lawsNov 05 16:03
DaemonFCthey really do have to kill someone before they get any kind of attentionNov 05 16:03
DaemonFCwhen you complain and ask what's wrong with this picture, they just call you a racist or an angry white manNov 05 16:04
DaemonFCthat's like some boilerplate terminology for anyone who objects to criminal activityNov 05 16:05
DaemonFCtessier, Mexican states were at various times (probably still are) printing handbook/map combos on how to cross the Sonora desert and where the "sanctuary cities" are and how to get on food stamps and get free healthcare and enroll their kids in our school systemNov 05 16:07
DaemonFCpeople that don't have any legal right to reside here are demanding that we all learn SpanishNov 05 16:08
schestowitzWhat a disconnected collection of stuff: http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/68566.html?wlc=1257437084Nov 05 16:10
phIRCe-localTitle: Linux News: Community: Does Wine Make Linux Too Loose? .::. Size~: 59.11 KBNov 05 16:10
schestowitzhttp://www.thinkdigit.com/Features/Getting-KDE4-on-Windows_3550.htmlNov 05 16:11
phIRCe-localTitle: Getting KDE4 on Windows .::. Size~: 55.44 KBNov 05 16:11
schestowitzhttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzY3NgNov 05 16:12
phIRCe-localTitle: [Phoronix] More Developers Want GNOME 3.0 Delayed .::. Size~: 19.16 KBNov 05 16:12
schestowitz"And Melissa struck this author as "a real evangelist". Too bad truth sometimes gets in the way." http://gateskeepers.civiblog.org/blog/_archives/2009/11/4/4370999.htmlNov 05 16:18
phIRCe-localTitle: Gates Keepers :: Altar Call from the Gates Foundation .::. Size~: 22.79 KBNov 05 16:18
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*zer0c00l|Away is now known as zer0c00l|cricketNov 05 16:19
DaemonFChttp://www.reportillegals.com/images/CNN_Lou_Dobbs_Sham_Marriages_Broad_Band.wmvNov 05 16:22
phIRCe-localTitle: Not a web page! Aborting video/x-ms-wmv type .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 05 16:22
schestowitzWindows media?Nov 05 16:22
DaemonFCmehNov 05 16:25
DaemonFCffmpeg can play itNov 05 16:25
schestowitzDownloading this encourages more of the same :-)Nov 05 16:26
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/PABRcom-WXHMD/?kc=rssNov 05 16:29
phIRCe-localTitle: Headmount computer design runs Linux - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 66.34 KBNov 05 16:29
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Nov 05 16:33
schestowitzKDE 4.3 is really fantastic. I'm saddened to see so many GNOME vs Vista7 [sic] comparisons being case as "Linux" vs "Windows" when KDE4 is a lot more competitive.Nov 05 16:39
schestowitzhttp://mdeslaur.blogspot.com/2009/11/gnome-keyring.htmlNov 05 16:42
phIRCe-localTitle: mdeslaur: GNOME Keyring .::. Size~: 93.84 KBNov 05 16:42
DaemonFChttp://www.v3.co.uk/v3/news/2250363/microsoft-senior-execs-pay-cutNov 05 16:43
DaemonFCHard to suffer when you already have $15 billion (Ballmer)Nov 05 16:43
DaemonFChttp://www.v3.co.uk/vnunet/news/2234987/senator-asks-microsoft-sackNov 05 16:45
DaemonFCSenator asks Microsoft to sack foreigners firstNov 05 16:45
DaemonFCheh, they're sacking Americans to hire MORE foreignersNov 05 16:45
DaemonFCnice PR stunt thoughNov 05 16:45
schestowitzDaemonFC: yes, not newsNov 05 16:46
schestowitzOverworked, underpaidNov 05 16:46
schestowitzVIsta 7 was built in Bangalore, I readNov 05 16:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Gentoo realises that KDE4 is totally good to go! http://ping.fm/tE2GYNov 05 16:46
DaemonFCschestowitz, Read where?Nov 05 16:46
DaemonFCYou mean like, they have a few managers and blogging talking heads here to put a nice face on itNov 05 16:47
schestowitzDaemonFC: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&c2coff=1&q=site%3Aboycottnovell.com+grassley&aq=f&oq=&aqi=Nov 05 16:47
phIRCe-localTitle: site:boycottnovell.com grassley - Google Search .::. Size~: 24.49 KBNov 05 16:47
DaemonFCthen they go and buil dthe whole thing with cut rate offshore labor?Nov 05 16:47
schestowitzDaemonFC: it's globalisation the wrong wayNov 05 16:47
schestowitzMore margins for rich people to hoardNov 05 16:47
schestowitzGood for them, less for the restNov 05 16:47
DaemonFCschestowitz, The 20% exec pay cut is a shamNov 05 16:47
schestowitzFrom a shareholders' point  of view it may also seem OKNov 05 16:48
schestowitzIt's hard to offshore one's portfolioNov 05 16:48
DaemonFCthat's not even their main source of income, stock options and bonuses are more than their salaryNov 05 16:48
DaemonFCyou don't hear aboutt hem slashing thatNov 05 16:48
DaemonFC*aboutNov 05 16:48
schestowitzYesNov 05 16:49
schestowitzSome get $1 salaryNov 05 16:49
schestowitzGoogle founders for exampleNov 05 16:49
schestowitzMaybe Jobs tooNov 05 16:49
schestowitzStupid gimmickNov 05 16:49
schestowitzhttp://www.businessinsider.com/are-rising-costs-killing-the-crunchpad-2009-11 CrunchPad Dead? Delayed By Higher-Than-Expected Costs?Nov 05 16:50
phIRCe-localTitle: CrunchPad Dead? Delayed By Higher-Than-Expected Costs? .::. Size~: 110.84 KBNov 05 16:50
schestowitzPatents too I reckonNov 05 16:50
schestowitzHardware patents evenNov 05 16:50
DaemonFCschestowitz, No CEO would stay and work for freeNov 05 16:50
schestowitzhttp://blogs.computerworld.com/15040/linux_for_grandma_grandpaNov 05 16:50
phIRCe-localTitle: Linux for grandma & grandpa - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 136.59 KBNov 05 16:50
DaemonFCyou know they're pulling in the millions of dollars from something else if they "work for $1 a year"Nov 05 16:51
*wallc has quit ("Page closed")Nov 05 16:51
DaemonFCschestowitz, I would go after Intel first if I was himNov 05 16:53
DaemonFCOne you're proven wrongdoing there, which is made easier by the other antitrust suits elsewhere, it's easier to go after Microsoft using the Intel case as precedentNov 05 16:53
schestowitzYupNov 05 16:55
schestowitzAnyway, gotta run nowNov 05 16:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Intellectual Ventures starts to racket Samsung and LG Electronics: http://i5.be/RC More lawsuits now! The more the better!Nov 05 17:00
phIRCe-localTitle: The Chosun Ilbo (English Edition): Daily News from Korea - Corporations Worldwide Join Hands to Battle Patent Trolls  .::. Size~: 7.36 KBNov 05 17:00
schestowitzIt's rainy outside. Damn.Nov 05 17:02
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/05/murdoch_delay_charging/Nov 05 17:02
phIRCe-localTitle: Murdoch admits delays on paywall scheme • The Register .::. Size~: 25.88 KBNov 05 17:02
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/05/china_addiction/Nov 05 17:03
phIRCe-localTitle: China says there's no such thing as net addiction • The Register .::. Size~: 25.64 KBNov 05 17:03
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/05/brown_wont_go/Nov 05 17:05
phIRCe-localTitle: Brown declines to resign • The Register .::. Size~: 25.08 KBNov 05 17:05
schestowitzI'll rush into the rain anyway. Back in a  couple....Nov 05 17:08
*zer0c00l|cricket is now known as zer0c00lNov 05 17:10
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] அடடா! கைக்கு எட்டுனது வாய்க்கு எட்டலையே x(Nov 05 17:18
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Good that sachin has got the man of the match; He deserves it;Nov 05 17:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @EFF watch: thx to Rep. Holt for intro'ing House version of JUSTICE Act to fix #PATRIOTact & repeal telco immunity! http://eff.org/r.5b2Nov 05 17:31
phIRCe-localTitle: Holt (NJ12) - Press Release - Holt Introduces Surveillance Reform Bill .::. Size~: 27.11 KBNov 05 17:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @glynmoody Students in Denmark Allowed Full Access to the Internet During Exams - http://bit.ly/30OsY7 it's the future... #educationNov 05 17:46
phIRCe-localTitle:   Students in Denmark Allowed Full Access to the Internet During Exams .::. Size~: 38.3 KBNov 05 17:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Grayson: How Many Uninsured Will Die In #Republican Districts http://ur1.ca/f7gd #HCR #hc09 #p2Nov 05 17:52
phIRCe-localTitle: Daily Kos: Grayson: How Many Uninsured Will Die In GOP Districts .::. Size~: 72.81 KBNov 05 17:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @singlepater Pelosi "THE DECISION WAS MADE" to omit Kucinich amendment allowing state #singlepayer Whos "decision"? where's the vote? #hcNov 05 17:55
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DaemonFChttp://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/174545/june-19-2008/cookie-monsterNov 05 18:08
phIRCe-localTitle: Cookie Monster | June 19,2008 - Bishop N.T. Wright | ColbertNation.com .::. Size~: 66.57 KBNov 05 18:08
*stefanc (n=stefanc@188.25.245.163) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving")Nov 05 18:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Faux @MyFoxNY publishes bogus mayor election results numbers that omit votes for 3rd party candidates http://ur1.ca/f7hn actual 50.6 to 46.0Nov 05 18:10
phIRCe-localTitle: 2009-Election-Results .::. Size~: 36.88 KBNov 05 18:10
DaemonFChttp://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/174544/june-19-2008/make-mccain-exciting-challenge---the-secret-of-mccain-s-brainNov 05 18:16
phIRCe-localTitle: Make McCain Exciting Challenge - The Secret of McCain's Brain | June 19,2008 - Bishop N.T. Wright | ColbertNation.com .::. Size~: 64.9 KBNov 05 18:16
DaemonFCgo to 1:44Nov 05 18:16
DaemonFClolNov 05 18:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] #Faux @MyFoxNY publishes bogus mayor election results that omits 3rd party votes http://ur1.ca/f7hn actual 50.6 to 46.0 http://ur1.ca/f7ilNov 05 18:18
phIRCe-localTitle: 2009-Election-Results .::. Size~: 36.88 KBNov 05 18:18
phIRCe-localTitle: Mayor and Citywide Races - Election Results 2009 - The New York Times .::. Size~: 35.56 KBNov 05 18:18
DaemonFChttp://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/255172/november-04-2009/tip-wag---rush-limbaugh---us-weeklyNov 05 18:20
phIRCe-localTitle: Tip/Wag - Rush Limbaugh & Us Weekly | November 4, 2009 | ColbertNation.com .::. Size~: 30.5 KBNov 05 18:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @eff Rep. Watt (D-Va): gov't must show *facts* to court if wants streams of email & web site addresses using "pen register" #patriotactNov 05 18:25
DaemonFChttp://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/254665/november-03-2009/the-word---the-green-mileNov 05 18:38
phIRCe-localTitle: The Word - The Green Mile | November 3, 2009 | ColbertNation.com .::. Size~: 65.82 KBNov 05 18:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Google Maps shows nonexistent city "Perth" http://is.gd/4O6RdNov 05 18:57
phIRCe-localTitle: News of the News .::. Size~: 118.65 KBNov 05 18:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Google Maps shows nonexistent city "Perth" http://is.gd/4O6UNNov 05 18:59
phIRCe-localTitle: Google Maps shows nonexistent city Perth - News of the News .::. Size~: 34.2 KBNov 05 18:59
DaemonFChttp://www.latimes.com/media/acrobat/2009-10/50159006.pdfNov 05 19:02
phIRCe-localTitle: Not a web page! Aborting application/pdf type .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 05 19:02
DaemonFCThe birthers get shot down for good this time.Nov 05 19:02
DaemonFCgood riddanceNov 05 19:02
fewalol davidNov 05 19:02
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] A motorcycle that runs #Linux http://ur1.ca/f7lmNov 05 19:03
phIRCe-localTitle: Mavizen's electric bike hits 130 MPH, ships with Linux and WiFi .::. Size~: 73.81 KBNov 05 19:03
DaemonFCHmmm, I wonder if they figured that mocking the court and trying to get "witnesses" to lie for you would make the court sympathetic to your caseNov 05 19:04
DaemonFCeven if your case had constitutional merit, which this one did notNov 05 19:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] NotN: Device that "smells" snake oil could identify terrorists http://2tu.us/11d5 #patriotactNov 05 19:05
phIRCe-localTitle: Device that smells snake oil could identify terrorists - News of the News .::. Size~: 34.57 KBNov 05 19:05
*goasts (n=ttr@CPE-121-217-30-209.lnse1.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 19:24
schestowitzThis show's pretty nice. http://linuxbasement.com/Nov 05 19:34
phIRCe-localTitle: Linux Basement | Linux Lurking Beneath .::. Size~: 33.13 KBNov 05 19:34
schestowitzHey, Mutex ( goasts ), how goes it?Nov 05 19:34
*schestowitz has kicked goasts from #boycottnovell (User terminated!)Nov 05 19:36
schestowitzMutexNov 05 19:36
schestowitznymshifting, almost surel;y himNov 05 19:36
*still-scared-eh (n=ttr@CPE-121-217-30-209.lnse1.cht.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 19:37
schestowitzReader says: Nov 05 19:38
schestowitz"Nov 05 19:38
schestowitzI hope Apache Foundation comes clean on the details.  'sponsorship' fromNov 05 19:38
schestowitzM$ usually comes with so many strings attached that its more like aNov 05 19:38
schestowitzgill-net than a grant.Nov 05 19:38
schestowitzhttp://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39860588,00.htmNov 05 19:38
schestowitz"Nov 05 19:38
phIRCe-localTitle: Top stories - ZDNet UK News .::. Size~: 118.8 KBNov 05 19:38
*schestowitz has kicked still-scared-eh from #boycottnovell (User terminated!)Nov 05 19:38
*schestowitz sets ban on *!*@*.bigpond.net.auNov 05 19:38
*fewa removes voice from sebsebsebNov 05 20:01
*fewa gives voice to gargoyle-grin sebsebsebNov 05 20:01
*fewa gives voice to jonoNov 05 20:01
*fewa gives voice to amarsh04_Nov 05 20:01
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxjournal.com/content/court-gets-torrent-full-about-linuxNov 05 20:01
phIRCe-localTitle: Court Gets A Torrent-full About Linux | Linux Journal .::. Size~: 40.27 KBNov 05 20:01
schestowitzIs it +R?Nov 05 20:02
fewanoNov 05 20:02
fewato check type /modeNov 05 20:02
schestowitzSo I guess voice doesn't make a differentNov 05 20:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Federal Motors is dropping 10,000 more jobs. Who loses? The taxpayers, who didn't choose to buy this rubbish.Nov 05 20:02
schestowitzI just felt quite bad today thinking that some people who came here couldn't talk and I wasn't aware of thisNov 05 20:02
fewaidk, they are hardly federal motorsNov 05 20:02
schestowitzThat's the nasty effects of being hit by shills... they ruin it for everyoneNov 05 20:03
fewathe ones that really loose are the workersNov 05 20:03
schestowitzI know.Nov 05 20:03
fewawho are highly skilled, and getting caught up in this abuseNov 05 20:03
schestowitzThey don't read me in Twatter [sic]Nov 05 20:03
schestowitzSo I assume no offence is likely to incur selfNov 05 20:03
schestowitzfewa: but the world needs less -- not more -- carsNov 05 20:04
DaemonFCschestowitz, http://www.examiner.com/x-16500-Lake-County-Independent-Examiner~y2009m11d4-Economic-crisis-turning-dads-into-criminals?#commentsNov 05 20:04
phIRCe-localTitle: Lake County Independent Examiner  .::. Size~: 68.35 KBNov 05 20:04
DaemonFC:PNov 05 20:04
schestowitzThey can hopefully swap directionNov 05 20:04
schestowitzSomething like solar panel manufacturingNov 05 20:04
fewaschestowitz, yes Van Jones understands this http://www.democracynow.org/2008/10/28/van_jones_on_the_green_collarNov 05 20:05
fewabest selling authorNov 05 20:05
fewawind turbines are highly complicatedNov 05 20:05
fewarequire same skill set as carsNov 05 20:05
phIRCe-localTitle: Van Jones on "The Green Collar Economy: How One Solution Can Fix Our Two Biggest Problems" .::. Size~: 35.71 KBNov 05 20:05
DaemonFCI'd get a vasectomy were I straightNov 05 20:05
schestowitz"Since being laid off, Dave had sent out hundreds of resumes and not one single interview. It wasn't Dave’s fault yet the child support bureau suspended his license and he was being hauled into court. Dave was now a criminal and said he would start robbing people to avoid going to jail."Nov 05 20:05
DaemonFCI'd find the budget for thatNov 05 20:05
schestowitzit sounds kinda third-world countryishNov 05 20:06
schestowitzDaemonFC: careful of your new neighbourNov 05 20:06
fewamens rights is a nasty issueNov 05 20:06
schestowitzDaemonFC: why vasectomy?Nov 05 20:06
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@87.114.143.91.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #boycottnovellNov 05 20:07
DaemonFCschestowitz, Pre-exposure prophylaxisNov 05 20:07
DaemonFCB-)Nov 05 20:07
schestowitzIt's like saying, hey, I don't use this car's radio, let's chuck it outta windowNov 05 20:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Is it sad that whilst watching Spooks on BBC iplayer I saw G-TOPC on the choper pilot heaphones and googled it? http://bit.ly/1tUb8a #fbNov 05 20:07
DaemonFCschestowitz, No, you can still use itNov 05 20:07
fewalawlNov 05 20:07
DaemonFCit just prevents some really bad consequences laterNov 05 20:07
schestowitzDaemonFC: the radio, right?Nov 05 20:07
DaemonFCsterilizing yourself is like having immunity to GonoherpesyphilAIDS Nov 05 20:08
DaemonFCkids are like 5 times worse than anything elseNov 05 20:08
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZBN5hne_XINov 05 20:08
schestowitzThat's the episode where he gets itNov 05 20:09
DaemonFCschestowitz, Child support insuranceNov 05 20:09
DaemonFCthink of the cost of the surgery as like a 10% premium on 18 years of child support for 1 childNov 05 20:09
schestowitzfewa: Al Jazeera uses a very unflattering photo for the GM aritlceNov 05 20:10
DaemonFCor a 5% premium on 2Nov 05 20:10
DaemonFCB-)Nov 05 20:10
schestowitzAre they suggesting US is angry and obese?Nov 05 20:10
DaemonFCor a 2.5% premium on 4Nov 05 20:10
DaemonFCthe more you screw around the more you saveNov 05 20:11
DaemonFCit's really rather like a discount cardNov 05 20:11
schestowitzDaemonFC: when conditions are created whereby one has to commit theft then it's pretty grimNov 05 20:11
fewaschestowitz, nah, cause Angela Merkel is just like thatNov 05 20:11
schestowitzI don't know if that story is true thoughNov 05 20:11
DaemonFCschestowitz, I doubt itNov 05 20:11
fewaschestowitz, Les MiserablesNov 05 20:11
schestowitzIf told by the criminal it can be embellished to fit a justificationNov 05 20:12
DaemonFCSounds like right wingers trumping up a story to enrage people against "the democrats"Nov 05 20:12
schestowitzA lot of girls don't choose to get into prostitution (or pr0n).Nov 05 20:12
fewahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_MisérablesNov 05 20:12
phIRCe-localTitle: Les Misérables (musical) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 183.29 KBNov 05 20:12
schestowitzright wingers = ringersNov 05 20:12
schestowitz"Enter the ORLY ring"Nov 05 20:13
schestowitz"See the crazy bastard shout"Nov 05 20:13
schestowitz"So as I was saying... ORLY: WAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAH!!! You're an idiot WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!"Nov 05 20:13
schestowitzI can't even watch that showNov 05 20:14
schestowitzFox belongs in the zooNov 05 20:14
schestowitzAway from the hen house, tooNov 05 20:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] #patriotact Issa: congress should let executive do anything that has not been explicitely declared unconstitutional What about his pledge?Nov 05 20:15
fewa-BNc/#boycottnovell- [scientes] #Faux @MyFoxNY publishes bogus mayor election results that omits 3rd party votes http://ur1.ca/f7hn actual 50.6 to 46.0 http://ur1.ca/f7ilNov 05 20:15
phIRCe-localTitle: 2009-Election-Results .::. Size~: 36.57 KBNov 05 20:15
phIRCe-localTitle: Mayor and Citywide Races - Election Results 2009 - The New York Times .::. Size~: 35.56 KBNov 05 20:15
schestowitzhttp://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/10/30/ http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/bizarre_cathedral_57Nov 05 20:17
phIRCe-localTitle: Penny Arcade! - In The Seventh House .::. Size~: 7.78 KBNov 05 20:17
phIRCe-localTitle: The Bizarre Cathedral - 57  .::. Size~: 35.75 KBNov 05 20:17
*amarsh04_ is now known as amarsh04Nov 05 20:18
schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/11/05/google-puts-all-of-your-personal-info-in-one-placeNov 05 20:19
phIRCe-localTitle: Google Puts All of Your Personal Info in One Place | WebProNews .::. Size~: 34.31 KBNov 05 20:19
schestowitz*Bush licks fingerNov 05 20:22
schestowitzA Sicilian offer some travellers won't be able to refuse http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2009/nov/03/sicily-holiday-mafia-addiopizzo-travelNov 05 20:24
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schestowitzAung San Suu Kyi meets senior US diplomat in Burma http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/04/suu-kyi-american-official-talksNov 05 20:25
schestowitzhttp://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/ff_waronscience/all/1Nov 05 20:26
phIRCe-localTitle: An Epidemic of Fear: How Panicked Parents Skipping Shots Endangers Us All | Magazine .::. Size~: 121.38 KBNov 05 20:26
schestowitzryan mentioned this earlier.Nov 05 20:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Eat cereal or die" is the message PR people try to get across. http://ping.fm/B7B4FNov 05 20:28
phIRCe-localTitle: Critics blast Kellogg's claim that cereals can boost immunity - USATODAY.com .::. Size~: 67.81 KBNov 05 20:28
schestowitzhttp://montclairsoci.blogspot.com/2009/11/top-of-charts.htmlNov 05 20:29
phIRCe-localTitle: Montclair SocioBlog: Top of the Charts .::. Size~: 101.13 KBNov 05 20:29
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Frio do crg :|Nov 05 20:30
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schestowitzhttp://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/thawte-to-offer-free-ssl,1028851.shtmlNov 05 20:36
phIRCe-localTitle: Thawte to Offer Free SSL and Code Signing Certificates to Open Source Community .::. Size~: 57.95 KBNov 05 20:36
schestowitzyawner: http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=4443Nov 05 20:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How reputable (if at all) is Open Source Software Institute (OSSI) among #Freesoftware people?Nov 05 20:46
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oiaohmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dxDVzby_XU  This is impressive but kinda large video showing one of things put forward for the blender game engine.Nov 05 20:50
schestowitzoiaohm: you model in Blender?Nov 05 20:52
schestowitzoiaohm: some news...Nov 05 20:52
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1561310/ballmer-half-heartedly-talks-windowsNov 05 20:53
schestowitzVista 7 ain't sellingNov 05 20:53
schestowitzTallken: http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/microsoft-takes-teachers-to-brazil--2354Nov 05 20:53
phIRCe-localTitle: Microsoft Takes Teachers To Brazil - News - eWeekEurope.co.uk .::. Size~: 22.67 KBNov 05 20:53
schestowitzThe location is not arbitrary; it must be part of the attempt to work like a totalitarian regime and shoot down anything that may seem like a threat, in this case Brazil raising its kids to be technologically independent with Free software, GNU/Linux includedNov 05 20:53
schestowitzoiaohm: I'll make it vid of the day (in links)Nov 05 20:53
Tallkenschestowitz, LOL seems the kind of things pharmaceutical companies do with doctors :pNov 05 20:54
amarsh04was funny at work a few days ago, I was turning off pc's in a lab and one of them was at the # promptNov 05 20:54
schestowitzTallken: in African and IndiaNov 05 20:54
schestowitz*AfricaNov 05 20:55
schestowitzTrain them to buy the US waresNov 05 20:55
schestowitzOr accept these as 'donations'... same with GM cropsNov 05 20:55
amarsh04or as Alexi Sayle once said, get them to buy Kylie Minogue recordsNov 05 20:56
schestowitzI never thought of that...Nov 05 20:57
oiaohmschestowitz: Not exactly model.  I use blender for video production for presitations Nov 05 20:58
schestowitzGetting people to cherish music and films from Hollywood is quite a challenge. If you can get people to turn away from local folklore and cuisine, then they buy US CDs (imported) and dine in Burger KingNov 05 20:58
schestowitzoiaohm: why not movie editor?Nov 05 20:58
schestowitzoiaohm: and it's just a renderer, no?Nov 05 20:58
schestowitzI assumed it's like povray+editor for objectsNov 05 20:59
oiaohmBlender node system can do lot better special effects on videos than most of the movie editor.Nov 05 20:59
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oiaohmBlender is part renderer part movie editor.Nov 05 20:59
oiaohmand part game engine.Nov 05 20:59
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schestowitzSuggested packages:Nov 05 21:00
schestowitz  yafray gettext-docNov 05 21:00
schestowitzThe following NEW packages will be installedNov 05 21:00
schestowitz  blender cvs gettext libalut0 libftgl2 libopenal1Nov 05 21:00
schestowitz0 upgraded, 6 newly installed, 0 to remove and 528 not upgraded.Nov 05 21:00
schestowitzNeed to get 14.6MB of archives.Nov 05 21:00
schestowitzAfter this operation, 40.4MB of additional disk space will be used.Nov 05 21:00
schestowitzDo you want to continue [Y/n]?Nov 05 21:00
schestowitzJust 40 MB, oiaohm?Nov 05 21:00
oiaohmBlender is small its interface is strange schestowitzNov 05 21:00
schestowitzI use kdenlive for editing videos for presntationNov 05 21:01
oiaohmYet it is insanely powerful.Nov 05 21:01
schestowitzhttp://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Hole-in-the-Linux-kernel-allows-root-access-850016.htmlNov 05 21:01
phIRCe-localTitle: Hole in the Linux kernel allows root access - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 30.8 KBNov 05 21:01
schestowitzNow Heise too?Nov 05 21:01
schestowitzI wonder if Gavin and others just try to mock 9.10 without reason that's out of the ordinaryNov 05 21:01
schestowitzThey report incidents, not statsNov 05 21:01
Diablo-D3actually, 9.10 is pretty much a failureNov 05 21:02
Diablo-D39.10 needs a service pack badlyNov 05 21:02
schestowitz9.10.1?Nov 05 21:02
schestowitzMine works OKNov 05 21:02
schestowitzwith kde-desktop/kubuntu-desktopNov 05 21:02
Diablo-D3a lot of people are having problemsNov 05 21:02
sebsebsebDiablo-D3: indeedNov 05 21:02
schestowitzBut I intend to move back to Mandriva or FedoraNov 05 21:02
sebsebsebDiablo-D3: after upgrades mainly though it seemsNov 05 21:02
schestowitzYesNov 05 21:03
Diablo-D3sebsebseb: well, most ubuntu users already existNov 05 21:03
Diablo-D3so it would be with upgradesNov 05 21:03
schestowitzUpgrades is what people sayNov 05 21:03
oiaohmhttp://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-242/blender-composite-nodes/  Node engine schestowitz this is used in its avi file joining stage.  kdenlive is lacking this.Nov 05 21:03
schestowitzThey can do clean installsNov 05 21:03
phIRCe-localTitle: blender.org - Blender Composite Nodes .::. Size~: 42.64 KBNov 05 21:03
Diablo-D3schestowitz: also, fuck you, fedora and mandriva suckNov 05 21:03
oiaohmI have found something strange with kubunut.Nov 05 21:03
Diablo-D3use debian.Nov 05 21:03
schestowitzI never update distro in place. Never even triedNov 05 21:03
oiaohmI have a defective kubuntu disk that passes MD5Nov 05 21:03
Diablo-D3schestowitz: erm, then you fail at debian-based distrosNov 05 21:03
schestowitz /update/upgrade/Nov 05 21:03
oiaohmIe I have 2 Kubuntu iso's.Nov 05 21:04
Diablo-D3thats what apt-get has reliably been doing for over 10 years.Nov 05 21:04
oiaohmBoth pass MD5Nov 05 21:04
oiaohmOnly  1 works Diablo-D3Nov 05 21:04
Diablo-D3oiaohm: yes, but who caresNov 05 21:04
schestowitzMandriva is fantastic actuallyNov 05 21:04
Diablo-D3you should be using debian anyhowNov 05 21:04
oiaohmThat means something in that iso is allowing MD5 colliosions.  Diablo-D3Nov 05 21:05
oiaohmThinking debian package management depends on MD5 this is not good.Nov 05 21:05
Diablo-D3oiaohm: no, it means MD5 should not be used for checksums on large objectsNov 05 21:05
Diablo-D3and no, debian package management does not depend on md5Nov 05 21:05
oiaohmWhat are they checksuming with Diablo-D3Nov 05 21:05
MinceRi tend to upgrade distros in placeNov 05 21:06
Diablo-D3sha256Nov 05 21:06
voltronwDiablo-D3: you running stable or unstable?Nov 05 21:06
oiaohmUp until now natual forming colliosions of md5 have not happen.Nov 05 21:06
Diablo-D3voltronw: sid.Nov 05 21:07
Diablo-D3oiaohm: md5 is not a secure hash.Nov 05 21:07
oiaohmIt would just have to be kubuntu that gets natural forming.Nov 05 21:07
Diablo-D3so yes, large files can fuck it upNov 05 21:07
schestowitzDJIA above 10k again..Nov 05 21:07
oiaohmsha256 also can screw on large files.Nov 05 21:07
Diablo-D3schestowitz: more useless numbersNov 05 21:07
schestowitzBanksters rejoiceNov 05 21:07
Diablo-D3oiaohm: nope.Nov 05 21:07
oiaohmAll checksums can Diablo-D3Nov 05 21:08
Diablo-D3oiaohm: nope.Nov 05 21:08
Diablo-D3that actually is very untrue.Nov 05 21:08
schestowitzDiablo-D3: yes, that number of bankers is uselessNov 05 21:08
schestowitzMeta-industryNov 05 21:08
oiaohmIts very true Diablo-D3Nov 05 21:08
Diablo-D3its actually possible to make a checksum that is safe for files under a certain size.Nov 05 21:08
schestowitzSpeculators... pushing papers and stuffNov 05 21:08
oiaohmOnly if the checksum is basically 1 to 1 Diablo-D3Nov 05 21:09
Diablo-D3oiaohm: nopeNov 05 21:09
oiaohmThere is no nope about it.Nov 05 21:09
Diablo-D3well, yeah, if you fail at math, sure.Nov 05 21:10
oiaohmEvery style of undefeatable checksum has a flaw.Nov 05 21:10
oiaohmECC fails with multi bit failures.Nov 05 21:10
oiaohmSame is true for all checksums supporting large than there size.Nov 05 21:11
schestowitzhttp://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20091104005386&newsLang=enNov 05 21:11
Diablo-D3please provide a mathematical proof stating soNov 05 21:11
phIRCe-localTitle: Freescale Extends Product Family That Pioneered the Smartbook Category to Address Additional Embedded Markets .::. Size~: 57.57 KBNov 05 21:11
schestowitzLinux netbooksNov 05 21:11
Diablo-D3schestowitz: old newsNov 05 21:12
schestowitzWith ARMNov 05 21:12
schestowitzNew press releaseNov 05 21:12
Diablo-D3old news.Nov 05 21:12
Diablo-D3hell, someone was already shipping the damn things last yearNov 05 21:12
*schestowitz nibbles on a strawNov 05 21:12
schestowitzMicrosoft commits suicide here:Nov 05 21:13
schestowitzhttp://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10014364o-2000667842b,00.htmNov 05 21:13
phIRCe-localTitle: Community on ZDNet UK .::. Size~: 121.15 KBNov 05 21:13
schestowitzStarter "junk" editionNov 05 21:13
schestowitzWho in their sane mind would buy crippleware?Nov 05 21:14
oiaohmDiablo-D3: there many math proofs. Even on your prized SHA256.  Causing duplicate numbers on the same size file to be generated.  Same fault that exists in ECC exists in them all.  If multi bits of data are wrong.Nov 05 21:15
Diablo-D3oiaohm: no, sha256 is not perfectNov 05 21:16
Diablo-D3and sha256 is not error correctionNov 05 21:16
Diablo-D3its used for error detectionNov 05 21:16
MinceRit's used pretty much anywhere a one-way hash function is needed :>Nov 05 21:18
oiaohmYou can reduce the chances of colide by using more checksums but the rules don't change.  Checksum only reduce problitity of defect slipping past.  Don't stop it 100 percent never can by maths until it gets to 1 to 1 effectively undermining the point of check suming.Nov 05 21:18
fewameh with a sha512 you are doing pretty wellNov 05 21:19
oiaohmall systems should have a raw binary compare fall back just for when things go strange.Nov 05 21:20
fewaor just time stampsNov 05 21:20
fewathat takes care of the collision problemsNov 05 21:20
oiaohmNice theory.Nov 05 21:21
oiaohmSay hello to murfy and data screw ups fewaNov 05 21:21
MinceRMurphy.Nov 05 21:21
oiaohmNo matter how good your theory it a event will kick you in teeth.Nov 05 21:22
fewawell time stamps only work if you can serialize your inputNov 05 21:22
fewabut you could have bothNov 05 21:22
fewa"In theory, theory and practice are the same, in practice, they are not"Nov 05 21:23
oiaohmThe odds of a natually forming MD5 hit by theory is over a trillion to one.Nov 05 21:23
fewaoiaohm, birthday problemNov 05 21:23
fewaits actually quite likelyNov 05 21:23
fewathats why timestamps are usefulNov 05 21:24
fewano birthday problem with timestampsNov 05 21:24
schestowitzMinceR: smurfyNov 05 21:24
oiaohmYet kubuntu 32bit 9.10 seams to be doing quite perfectly.Nov 05 21:24
MinceRschestowitz: i was thinking of that tooNov 05 21:24
DaemonFCI went down to the grocery store and dumped $2.14 in pennies into the self checkout for two 2 liters of sodaNov 05 21:24
DaemonFC:)Nov 05 21:24
DaemonFCI love doing things like thatNov 05 21:25
schestowitzwash your hand afterwardsNov 05 21:25
schestowitzI have like 20 KG of coins hereNov 05 21:25
schestowitzI can't be bothered to use themNov 05 21:25
oiaohmNote the 64 bit version of kubuntu 9.10 does not seam to have the problem.   There is murphy for you.  It the one with the highest numbers of downloaders.Nov 05 21:25
schestowitzIt just keeps piling upNov 05 21:26
DaemonFCschestowitz, Make everyone wait behind you in line while you dump them into the self checkoutNov 05 21:26
DaemonFCfilling up the coin storage thing with pennies and making that checkout shut down is even funnierNov 05 21:27
DaemonFCthough that didn't happen todayNov 05 21:27
fewaThere are so many house of reps that have no respect for the constitutionNov 05 21:27
fewaif it hasn't been declared unconstitutional its not their business....Nov 05 21:28
DaemonFCfewa, everyone says that whenever something they don't like is going onNov 05 21:28
fewaDaemonFC, not at allNov 05 21:28
DaemonFCfewa, Where was your "constitutional crisis" when they were giving special rights to religious people in 1968?Nov 05 21:28
DaemonFCWHERE?Nov 05 21:28
fewaDaemonFC, first explain yourselfNov 05 21:29
fewayou mean "In god we trust"?Nov 05 21:29
DaemonFChow many religious people want religion to be removed as a protected class from anti-discrimination and hate crime laws?Nov 05 21:29
DaemonFCthat's what I meanNov 05 21:29
fewapeople who hold and religion are protectedNov 05 21:29
fewathats in the constitutionNov 05 21:29
DaemonFCthat's against the constitutionNov 05 21:29
DaemonFCthe constitution only protects them from government interferenceNov 05 21:29
DaemonFCnot employment discrimination or "hate crimes"Nov 05 21:30
fewayes, the government cannot interveneNov 05 21:30
fewacannot bias one over anotherNov 05 21:30
DaemonFCso why do they get to be a special protected class?Nov 05 21:30
fewathey are notNov 05 21:30
fewathey mandate non-distriminationNov 05 21:30
DaemonFCWhy is it a crime to fire some religious person for believing in a false god when you can fire anyone else for any reason at all?Nov 05 21:30
DaemonFCWhy is it two crimes to kill a religious person when killing someone else is only one crime?Nov 05 21:31
fewaDaemonFC, it has to do with the megacorpsNov 05 21:31
fewawhich are an extention of the governmentNov 05 21:31
DaemonFCif adding gays and lesbians to the hate crimes act and the anti-discrimination laws is unconstitutional, they also need to repeal the special protections for religious peopleNov 05 21:32
DaemonFCthen everyone can get equal justice under the law, right?Nov 05 21:32
fewaDaemonFC, these things are not against the constituionNov 05 21:32
DaemonFCI mean, religion doesn't want us all to be equalNov 05 21:32
fewalook at the constitutionNov 05 21:32
fewatell me where that is prohibitedNov 05 21:33
DaemonFCreligion wants religious people to have full benefit of citizenship and everyone else is a peonNov 05 21:33
DaemonFCto be tortured or humiliated to the will of the religiousNov 05 21:33
fewaWhat I am referring to is a corrosion of the fourth amendmentNov 05 21:33
fewasaying that people cannot be secure in their personsNov 05 21:33
fewathat the executive, the feds can break in on whoever they want, and spy on themNov 05 21:33
fewaand also, that they need not get a warrentNov 05 21:33
fewathis is horribly against the fourth amendmentNov 05 21:34
DaemonFCfewa, The Feds also say the 4th amendment doesn't apply within 100 miles of an international borderNov 05 21:34
DaemonFC!google constitution free zoneNov 05 21:34
phIRCe-local[1] - American Civil Liberties Union : Surveillance Society Clock | http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/areyoulivinginaconstitutionfreezone.htmlNov 05 21:34
phIRCe-local[2] - The Raw Story | ACLU highlights 'Constitution-Free Zone' 100 miles ... | http://rawstory.com/news/2008/ACLU_highlights_ConstitutionFree_Zone_100_miles_1022.htmlNov 05 21:34
phIRCe-local[3] - U.S. "Constitution Free Zone" | http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php%3Fcontext%3Dva%26aid%3D10665Nov 05 21:34
phIRCe-local[4] - Do You Live In A "Constitution Free" Zone? » Propeller | http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/06/do-you-live-in-a-quotconstitution-freequot-zone/Nov 05 21:34
fewaDaemonFC, thats bullshitNov 05 21:34
oiaohmOk please don't use religion as blanket statements.  Buddhists and some other religions are not like that.Nov 05 21:34
oiaohmDaemonFC: Nov 05 21:34
DaemonFChttp://www.aclu.org/national-security_technology-and-liberty/are-you-living-constitution-free-zoneNov 05 21:34
fewayes DaemonFC is a bigotNov 05 21:34
phIRCe-localTitle: Are You Living in a Constitution Free Zone? | American Civil Liberties Union .::. Size~: 43.82 KBNov 05 21:34
fewaDaemonFC, tone down the rhetoric/hateNov 05 21:35
fewaAlso, I don't see what is unconstitutional about what you are saying DaemonFC Nov 05 21:35
oiaohmA lot of people follow religions that suck.  Even worse people after all these years people don't understand there religion so causing problems.Nov 05 21:35
oiaohmI hear christians bring out the good smaritian statement over and over and forget that person was non christian.Nov 05 21:36
oiaohmLot of religions make those points even in the muslim book there is the same statement.  Basically you should judge a person on there actions not there religionNov 05 21:37
schestowitzhttp://www.pendrivelinux.com/cairo-dock-black-background-fix/Nov 05 21:37
phIRCe-localTitle: Cairo Dock Black Background Fix | USB Pen Drive Linux .::. Size~: 26.44 KBNov 05 21:37
schestowitz[21:26] <DaemonFC> schestowitz, Make everyone wait behind you in line while you dump them into the self checkoutNov 05 21:37
oiaohmits repeated over and over gain.Nov 05 21:37
schestowitzI separate by coin typeNov 05 21:37
schestowitzBut there ought to be machines that do this and count alsoNov 05 21:37
schestowitzre "constitution free zone"Nov 05 21:38
schestowitzThere's that place that supposedly is part of CubaNov 05 21:38
fewayesNov 05 21:38
schestowitzBut the US says it's CubanNov 05 21:38
schestowitzCuba says, "but the US stole it from us"Nov 05 21:38
fewathe place they took by gun point from CubaNov 05 21:38
schestowitzAnd back and forth it goesNov 05 21:38
schestowitzNo juristrictionNov 05 21:38
fewaso they can say "its not ours, there is no jurisdiction"Nov 05 21:38
schestowitzLand without lawNov 05 21:39
fewaand other absurdityNov 05 21:39
schestowitzThe only law they know it leverage... of rendition and art and extreme 'cute' interrparties...Nov 05 21:39
*Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?")Nov 05 21:39
fewathe president has way too much powerNov 05 21:39
schestowitzSometimes they have parties where everyone is nakedNov 05 21:39
schestowitzANd the part dogs come out to playNov 05 21:39
fewamuch more than was granted by the constitutionNov 05 21:39
fewaundeclared warsNov 05 21:39
schestowitzThey play drinking gamesNov 05 21:39
schestowitzWhere you pour the water while the dude doesn't know who's doing it (blindfolded)Nov 05 21:40
fewathe US hanged japaneese that did that to americansNov 05 21:40
fewa(waterboarding)Nov 05 21:40
schestowitzSounds fanNov 05 21:40
schestowitzWater... boardsNov 05 21:40
fewadrowningNov 05 21:40
fewathey drown the victimsNov 05 21:40
schestowitzLike waterpark attractionNov 05 21:41
fewato the point where they feel like they are going to dieNov 05 21:41
oiaohmWater boarding the way it done cannot drown target fewaNov 05 21:41
schestowitz"Kids, kids.. who want to do the waterboarding?"Nov 05 21:41
schestowitzkid: water boards sounds like funNov 05 21:41
schestowitz"Kids, kids.. who want to do the waterboarding?"Nov 05 21:41
fewaoiaohm, it does drown, just not to deathNov 05 21:41
schestowitzkid: me me me!!Nov 05 21:41
oiaohmBut will make person fell like they are drowing fewaNov 05 21:41
schestowitzIt's all euphemismNov 05 21:41
schestowitzRendition...Nov 05 21:41
fewaoiaohm, it is drowningNov 05 21:41
fewajust not to deathNov 05 21:41
schestowitzLet's call death by hanging "Dancing with the stars"Nov 05 21:42
oiaohmWaterboard angle avoids filling lungs that is a requirement to drown fewaNov 05 21:42
oiaohmAnd also don't not block breathing fully.Nov 05 21:42
oiaohmBasically to point just before you start drowning fewaNov 05 21:42
fewaoiaohm, go experience it, and then say its not drowningNov 05 21:42
schestowitz!youtube reporter tries waterboardingNov 05 21:43
schestowitz!google youtube reporter tries waterboardingNov 05 21:43
phIRCe-local[1] - YouTube - Waterboarding, Obama and Wanda Sykes and Pelosi ... | http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D_rLQlPgv_0UNov 05 21:43
phIRCe-local[2] - Video: Reporter gets waterboarded for his story, doesn't like it ... | http://www.ihatethemedia.com/video-playboy-reporter-gets-waterboarded-for-his-storyNov 05 21:43
phIRCe-local[3] - Video - Tea Bagger On Waterboarding Obama - White House | http://beltwayblips.dailyradar.com/video/tea_bagger_on_waterboarding_obama/Nov 05 21:43
phIRCe-local[4] - Reporter Takes WATER BOARDING to see if its Torture. VERY ... | http://www.mrfeature.com/media.php%3Fname%3D3130-reporter-takes-water-boarding-to-see-if-its-torture.-very-interestingNov 05 21:43
oiaohmNote I said makes person fell like they are drowning fewa.Nov 05 21:43
oiaohmIts basically a enchanged version of the old slow drop of water on head fewa.Nov 05 21:44
fewachinese water tortureNov 05 21:44
fewanothing like itNov 05 21:44
fewaits totally differn'tNov 05 21:44
fewachinese water torture does not create the sensation of deathNov 05 21:45
fewaof imminent deathNov 05 21:45
oiaohmBoth are based on the same idea.  To break a person will.   fewa enchanged should been enhanced ie targeting a point to make the effect more nasty.Nov 05 21:47
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schestowitzjono: pingNov 05 21:47
fewathe chinese water torture is a horrible bruiseNov 05 21:47
oiaohmSo instead of a drop hitting head getting the sensation of death over and over again.Nov 05 21:48
fewaits very differn'tNov 05 21:48
fewaboth are tortureNov 05 21:48
oiaohmSame base idea is behind both.Nov 05 21:48
fewatortureNov 05 21:48
oiaohmRepeat and Repeat until person breaks.Nov 05 21:48
fewathere are many forms of tortureNov 05 21:48
fewaand all torture has that themeNov 05 21:48
schestowitzjono: I've been seeing a lot of exaggerated belated report slamming 9.10 cause Vista 7 does not sell well. Is it true based on your experience that 9.10 was a decent (or as normal) release?\Nov 05 21:48
oiaohmNot all fewaNov 05 21:48
schestowitz[21:40] <fewa> the US hanged japaneese that did that to americansNov 05 21:49
oiaohmSome of the old torture systems work on disorentation.Nov 05 21:49
schestowitzIn end of WW2 they were also jailed for just being US JapaneseNov 05 21:49
fewawater boardingNov 05 21:49
oiaohmWhere you keep a person in a highly random envorment.Nov 05 21:49
fewaschestowitz, yes, Alien Enemies Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_ActsNov 05 21:50
phIRCe-localTitle: Alien and Sedition Acts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 37.25 KBNov 05 21:50
oiaohmSomething the human brain does not particularly like fewaNov 05 21:50
voltronwoiaohm: highly random? like #boycottnovell?Nov 05 21:50
fewahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internmentNov 05 21:50
phIRCe-localTitle: Japanese American internment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 221.39 KBNov 05 21:50
fewaschestowitz, it also happened in CanadaNov 05 21:51
fewalook at David SuzukiNov 05 21:51
schestowitzhttp://technologytales.com/2009/11/04/a-case-of-double-vision/Nov 05 21:51
oiaohmNo voltronw this is like moving beds food what ever sleep patern distubing.   Basically to get person questioning there own sanity.  Everyone around them acting like its normal.Nov 05 21:51
schestowitzfewa: around WW2 it was also said they if you served a German in the UK you should throw the soup in his/her face. Can't recall what said that......Nov 05 21:52
voltronwoiaohm: aside from the beds and food, that actually describes this channel pretty wellNov 05 21:52
schestowitzBasically classifications by nationalityNov 05 21:52
fewaschestowitz, the US elites were good friends with the NazisNov 05 21:52
fewasame in UKNov 05 21:52
schestowitzWait.Nov 05 21:52
fewabut moreso in USNov 05 21:52
schestowitzBefore or after?Nov 05 21:52
fewabeforeNov 05 21:52
schestowitz[the war]Nov 05 21:52
schestowitzI knowNov 05 21:52
fewastarting around 31Nov 05 21:52
fewathey loved NazisNov 05 21:52
fewaas they were the buffer against communismNov 05 21:52
oiaohmvoltronw: but people here know that is random.  You don't have people making out nothing has changed and its just your mind playing tricks on you.  voltronwNov 05 21:53
schestowitzGoebbels has some videos hanging out with US presNov 05 21:53
fewaIt is usually forgotten that the corporations were the extrasoverign entities during the warNov 05 21:53
fewathe war did not stop the business of coca-cola, which sold on both sidesNov 05 21:53
fewacreate FantaNov 05 21:53
fewamassive investments in Nazi regimeNov 05 21:54
schestowitzhttp://gnuru.org/article/1486/debian-public-keys-error-2Nov 05 21:55
phIRCe-localTitle: Gnuru.org | Productive Linux | Debian Public Keys Error 2 .::. Size~: 18.66 KBNov 05 21:55
schestowitzIBMNov 05 21:55
schestowitzAnd then you have the similar issue in EuropeNov 05 21:55
schestowitzInside EuropeNov 05 21:55
schestowitzRothschild loans...Nov 05 21:55
schestowitzIn retrospect there are many regretsNov 05 21:55
schestowitzIBM also..Nov 05 21:55
schestowitzThey never got over itNov 05 21:56
fewabecause the Nazi's stood behind the opulentNov 05 21:56
fewa"They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority."Nov 05 21:56
schestowitzhttp://nobelprize.org/nomination/peace/nomination.php?action=show&showid=2609Nov 05 21:56
phIRCe-localTitle: Nomination database .::. Size~: 13.15 KBNov 05 21:56
oiaohmhttp://www.linuxjournal.com/content/court-gets-torrent-full-about-linux  LOLNov 05 21:57
phIRCe-localTitle: Court Gets A Torrent-full About Linux | Linux Journal .::. Size~: 41.32 KBNov 05 21:57
schestowitzhttp://www.thelinuxblog.com/backup-dvds-on-linux/Nov 05 21:57
phIRCe-localTitle: The Linux Blog » Backup your DVDs on Linux  .::. Size~: 20.58 KBNov 05 21:57
schestowitzoiaohm: ayeNov 05 21:57
schestowitzOriginal in IDG AUNov 05 21:58
oiaohmBig thing the copy right holders miss.Nov 05 22:01
oiaohmLinux distibution does not need encrypted torrents.Nov 05 22:01
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schestowitzhttp://jquelin.blogspot.com/2009/11/state-of-perl-in-mandriva-2010.htmlNov 05 22:03
phIRCe-localTitle: Jerome Quelin: the state of perl in mandriva 2010 .::. Size~: 70.18 KBNov 05 22:03
schestowitzhttp://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/2009/11/05/you-dont-need-to-convert-them/Nov 05 22:07
schestowitz"Recently a friend of mine approached me with a weird question: how to install Windows on a machine without a CD or Floppy drive. I was intrigued. The obvious question here was “why?” It turned out that he just ordered himself one of those Dell Mini notebooks. Naturally, like every living being on planet Earth my friend hates Windows Vista with a passion and as a result he didn’t really feel like paying a Vista tax. So he Nov 05 22:07
schestowitzopted for the Ubuntu version with the intention of installing his copy of Windows XP on the machine. But while he was in the cost saving mode, he also decided not to purchase the optional external CD drive."Nov 05 22:07
phIRCe-localTitle: You dont need to convert them& «  Terminally Incoherent .::. Size~: 53.33 KBNov 05 22:07
schestowitz:-/Nov 05 22:07
schestowitzCan anyone access http://blog.flameeyes.eu/2009/11/05/distributions-are-the-strength-of-linux ?Nov 05 22:08
phIRCe-localTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 05 22:08
schestowitzhttp://www.igneousquill.net/2009/11/foss-fud-and-freeloaders.htmlNov 05 22:11
phIRCe-localTitle: Igneous Quill: FOSS, FUD and Freeloaders .::. Size~: 140.08 KBNov 05 22:11
schestowitzFOSS, FUD and Freeloaders - "FUD is what curmudgeonly, anti-social geeks squeal any time any criticisms of FOSS or GNU/Linux are raised. Even if one is a Linux enthusiast, as I am, the accusation can be leveled. So, my friendly criticisms of GNU/Linux make me as much a FUD-spreader in some people's eyes as my disillusionment with Churches of Christ made me "unfaithful" in the view of others."Nov 05 22:11
schestowitzThey attack the wrong person. Ouch.Nov 05 22:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Today I (a) got Notes to work in Ubuntu (b) got my boss to heartily approve me using Ubuntu officially. WIN.Nov 05 22:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] They are apparently considering dumping Notes for ... Outlook. That said, Notes is actually more horrible than Outlook. Gmail for business?Nov 05 22:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] @davidgerard what about squirrelmail? Or Kolab2/Horde http://squirrelmail.org/ http://www.kolab.org/Nov 05 22:16
phIRCe-localTitle: SquirrelMail - Webmail for Nuts! .::. Size~: 11.24 KBNov 05 22:16
phIRCe-localTitle: Kolab Groupware:: Home .::. Size~: 9.29 KBNov 05 22:16
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 05 22:18
schestowitzI love HordeNov 05 22:19
schestowitzUsed it for many years almost exclusivelyNov 05 22:19
schestowitzI'm still on their mailing listNov 05 22:19
*schestowitz watches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL5iPKTzXAENov 05 22:22
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schestowitzfewa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umawimGQpY0&NR=1Nov 05 22:35
fewahe didn't ask the questionNov 05 22:35
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fewajust a jackassNov 05 22:36
fewaits a political attack cause they don't like himNov 05 22:36
*schestowitz removes ban on *!*@*.bigpond.net.auNov 05 22:36
fewaand it doesn't say who the cameraman isNov 05 22:37
schestowitzYes, he should have ignoredNov 05 22:37
schestowitzThey harass to provoke for responseNov 05 22:37
schestowitzI was once stupid enough to react to these tactics...Nov 05 22:37
fewahere is the jackass http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icZ_Xci3sEwNov 05 22:37
fewaa anti-union neocon/neoliberalNov 05 22:38
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fewa"stroking the fires of discontent"Nov 05 22:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Acreditam que tenho uma drive de disquetes mas nunca a acabei por usar... pelo menos que eu me lembre...Nov 05 22:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Vou fazer umas flexões e uns abdominais para aquecer...Nov 05 22:43
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schestowitzfewa: I see....Nov 05 22:45
schestowitzI'm finishing the Warren sessionNov 05 22:46
schestowitzmin50 @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Uk-DwUvJwNov 05 22:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @AllAboutRace @tamenem LOATHE media' endless speculation abt motivation & inner dialogue. Daily Show good sec on this http://ur1.ca/f853Nov 05 22:47
phIRCe-localTitle: Video: Indecision 2009 - Reindecision 2008 And Beyond | The Daily Show | Comedy Central .::. Size~: 73.46 KBNov 05 22:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Done... mas ainda estou com frio :|Nov 05 22:48
fewasee how the Huffington Post was actually polite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1o1p_ly7YwNov 05 22:50
fewabut still was sorta rudeNov 05 22:51
fewaI've never been sure what to think of huffington postNov 05 22:51
fewathey are quite sensationalistNov 05 22:51
fewaschestowitz, on the Warren interview, I skipped the end cause it was a rehash of the Collapse of the Middle Class speech, but without the nice diagramsNov 05 22:52
schestowitzOK, finished itNov 05 22:53
schestowitzHeh.Nov 05 22:55
schestowitzThey still play that "obama born in Kenya" lieNov 05 22:55
fewaStill would do more good to focus on more serious issuesNov 05 22:56
fewathey did pollsNov 05 22:56
fewaand in the last few years there was a huge loss in interest in gay marriageNov 05 22:57
fewayou just have to give people something else to think aboutNov 05 22:57
fewaand homosexual domestic parnershipsNov 05 22:57
fewaObama's election and the economy changed the debateNov 05 22:58
fewaTO things that matter for everyday life: like health careNov 05 22:58
fewathat is very benificialNov 05 22:58
schestowitzThat lost guy gave a good answerNov 05 22:58
schestowitzI can't stand YouTUbe commentsNov 05 22:58
schestowitzToo many nutcase seem to have taken over them in political vidsNov 05 22:59
fewaThe propaganda model succeeds when it can distract from the real issuesNov 05 23:00
schestowitzNutcases; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILmqq_4QyhI&NR=1&feature=fvwpNov 05 23:01
voltronwschestowitz: http://lifehacker.com/software/exclusive-lifehacker-download/better-youtube-firefox-extension-319925.phpNov 05 23:01
phIRCe-localTitle: Better YouTube Firefox Extension -  - Lifehacker .::. Size~: 67.56 KBNov 05 23:01
fewastaying away from wedge issuesNov 05 23:01
fewamove from issues of opinion, to issues of life and deathNov 05 23:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Já fui tarde demais :|Nov 05 23:02
DaemonFCI don't even know why people are pushing for same-sex marriage, honestlyNov 05 23:02
DaemonFCI mean, I'm not saying that cause I'm a gay basher (I am gay), I just think marriage is a retarded ideaNov 05 23:03
DaemonFCit's an archaic, failed institutionNov 05 23:03
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 05 23:03
DaemonFCit causes a lot of grief and money and court room time, and other unnecessary crap WHEN it comes time for a divorceNov 05 23:04
DaemonFCnow if you're one of the 10% or so that does manage to stay married til you die, congratulationsNov 05 23:04
schestowitzfewa: going for emotionNov 05 23:05
DaemonFC*causes = costs Nov 05 23:05
schestowitzI think is part it remains for many reasonsNov 05 23:05
DaemonFCbesides, just look at what the gay personals sections on Craigslist areNov 05 23:05
schestowitzpractical reasonsNov 05 23:05
DaemonFCnot the "casual encounters", the "personals"Nov 05 23:06
schestowitzIncluding assistance from state raising more citizensNov 05 23:06
DaemonFCthey look the same, exactly the sameNov 05 23:06
DaemonFCall sex, all the timeNov 05 23:06
fewaDaemonFC, there are many rights associated with marriageNov 05 23:06
DaemonFCfewa, marriage is a bad ideaNov 05 23:06
DaemonFCa universally bad ideaNov 05 23:06
fewaDaemonFC, is procreation a bad idea?Nov 05 23:06
MinceRmarriage isn't procreationNov 05 23:06
schestowitzPromiscuity has many issues to itNov 05 23:06
DaemonFCwhy gay people want in on that crap is a total mysteryNov 05 23:06
fewaMinceR, lolNov 05 23:06
schestowitzCompanionship also helps in cases of hardshipsNov 05 23:07
MinceRmarriage is simply an institution to increase the cost of switching matesNov 05 23:07
DaemonFCfewa, I would say reproduction is usually a bad ideaNov 05 23:07
DaemonFCbut you don't need to be married to do itNov 05 23:07
schestowitz[23:07] <MinceR> marriage is simply an institution to increase the cost of switching matesNov 05 23:07
MinceRforcing people into a relationship that has become harmfulNov 05 23:07
schestowitz+2Nov 05 23:07
fewaMinceR, marriage is the thing you do when she realizes she is pregnantNov 05 23:07
DaemonFCfewa, shotgun wedding?Nov 05 23:07
DaemonFC:DNov 05 23:07
MinceR:)Nov 05 23:07
fewabut yes, I believe it is a personal thingNov 05 23:07
fewaWHy there is alot of emotions about itNov 05 23:08
DaemonFCfewa, So do I. I believe I should be able to point and laugh at anyone who decided to get married, to watch his wife pop out a few kids, put on 40 pounds, and file for divorceNov 05 23:08
DaemonFCmajor pwnageNov 05 23:08
DaemonFCbut it is a personal thing B-)Nov 05 23:09
DaemonFCthey need like, a birth control pill that works for 10 yearsNov 05 23:09
DaemonFCand they need to make it mandatory for every woman that gets marriedNov 05 23:10
DaemonFC*makeNov 05 23:10
DaemonFCthat way if you are one of the 70% of couples who can't stand one another and get divorced within 10 years, you don't have to drag your kids through itNov 05 23:10
DaemonFCand nobody ends up paying child support over a broken condom on the wedding nightNov 05 23:11
fewaits a hold over from the days of the churchNov 05 23:11
DaemonFCfewa, I've had enough grief out of the ones I couldn't marryNov 05 23:14
DaemonFCgod help me if I had been able toNov 05 23:15
DaemonFCschestowitz, What do I call same-sex marriage?Nov 05 23:16
DaemonFCA proposed stimulus package for the lawyersNov 05 23:16
DaemonFC:PNov 05 23:16
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBVldS1p7Bo&NR=1Nov 05 23:16
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DaemonFCfewa, I'd vote in favor of same sex marriage, even though I disagree with the ideaNov 05 23:19
DaemonFCto piss off the churchNov 05 23:19
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @feelinglistless: American Airlines fires UX designer for explaining why their UX isn't great http://bit.ly/3k928r #failNov 05 23:21
phIRCe-localTitle: The Incompetence of American Airlines & The Fate of Mr. X | Dustin Curtis .::. Size~: 10.53 KBNov 05 23:21
schestowitzObama Stands by 'Stupidity' Comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ju1V7k0XnEI&feature=relatedNov 05 23:22
*schestowitz has kicked nocternal from #boycottnovell (User terminated!)Nov 05 23:22
schestowitzmutex nymshiftingNov 05 23:22
fewacarpe noctomNov 05 23:22
schestowitzlatin?Nov 05 23:23
fewa*carpe noctumNov 05 23:23
fewasieze the nightNov 05 23:23
schestowitzI got the nocturnal partNov 05 23:23
MinceRQuidquid Latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.Nov 05 23:23
fewalolNov 05 23:24
MinceRi thought that was "carpe noctem"Nov 05 23:24
fewawhoopsNov 05 23:25
fewashows i dont know latinNov 05 23:25
MinceRneither do iNov 05 23:25
MinceRi just know a few phrases :)Nov 05 23:25
DaemonFCCarpe pisces Nov 05 23:25
*Lns has quit ("Φ")Nov 05 23:26
MinceRthat doesn't look rightNov 05 23:26
fewasieze the fish?Nov 05 23:26
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schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feU0ix2ba34Nov 05 23:30
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhusDP0JACUNov 05 23:32
DaemonFCfewa, Seize the fishesNov 05 23:32
fewaDaemonFC, fish is pluralNov 05 23:33
cubezzz aut viam inveniam aut faciam Nov 05 23:33
fewafishies is just sillyNov 05 23:33
fewa"fishies"Nov 05 23:33
MinceRQuake has an obituary "xy sleeps with the fishes" :>Nov 05 23:34
fewaschestowitz, they is more to politics than just that sort of light fluffNov 05 23:36
fewacult of personalityNov 05 23:36
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x23vh6IH6WQ&NR=1Nov 05 23:38
schestowitzI can't find anything of substanceNov 05 23:38
schestowitzfewa: I know, I know....Nov 05 23:39
schestowitzI just drift away by "related:"Nov 05 23:39
jonoschestowitz sorry, I was away - I feel 9.10 was a good releaseNov 05 23:40
jonoI am actually writing up a blog entry about some of these quality discussionsNov 05 23:40
fewaschestowitz, thats cause there is little of substanceNov 05 23:41
fewathese elections are designed to have as little substance as possibleNov 05 23:41
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fewabecause the candidates positions differ greatly from the positions of Americans at largeNov 05 23:41
fewathe one thing that was new was that health care actually entered the debateNov 05 23:42
Ender2070fedora 12 is pwning ubuntu 9.10Nov 05 23:42
MinceRdoes it allow installing the root fs to ext3? :>Nov 05 23:43
fewaas a presidential bid takes a huge amount of moneyNov 05 23:43
fewait happens at the exclusion of what the people wantNov 05 23:43
fewathere was an extensive poll done around the time of the 2004 budget/electionNov 05 23:43
fewaand the american people across the board completely differed from the budgetNov 05 23:44
fewawhere it went up, they wanted it to go down (eg war)Nov 05 23:44
MinceRif it doesn't, then it doesn't "pwn" any release of ubuntu, ever :>Nov 05 23:45
fewawhen it went down, they wanted it to go up (health care, libraries, schools, public works, FDR new society/new deal)Nov 05 23:45
fewacall for increases in renewable energy/energy independence spendingNov 05 23:48
fewahttp://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brunitedstatescanadara/85.php?lb=btot&pnt=85&nid=&id=Nov 05 23:49
phIRCe-localTitle: U.S. Budget: The Public's Priorities - World Public Opinion .::. Size~: 26.54 KBNov 05 23:49
sebsebsebEnder2070: will it like my partitions,  the custom install,  no  installer  error is the thingNov 05 23:49
sebsebsebFedora 11  gave me error and told me it was probably a bug and to reportNov 05 23:49
schestowitzjono: see http://laserjock.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/the-myth-of-the-bad-ubuntu-release/Nov 05 23:49
phIRCe-localTitle: The Myth of the Bad Ubuntu Release «  LaserJock .::. Size~: 65.76 KBNov 05 23:49
schestowitzI saw the attacks coming from the anti-Linux peopleNov 05 23:50
schestowitzThose who attack me with slanderNov 05 23:50
jonoschestowitz indeed - he is on the buttonNov 05 23:50
jonoschestowitz well, people are welcome to their viewpointsNov 05 23:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: It's only right and natural. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/18617.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/532369.htmlNov 05 23:50
schestowitzThen came an article from Gavin Clarke, a Microsoft booter in The RegisterNov 05 23:50
Ender2070sebsebseb - not sure, i use 11Nov 05 23:50
phIRCe-localTitle: reddragdiva | It's only right and natural. .::. Size~: 28.25 KBNov 05 23:50
phIRCe-localTitle: reddragdiva: It's only right and natural. .::. Size~: 19.24 KBNov 05 23:50
schestowitzAll the ranters link to himNov 05 23:50
schestowitzAs though he seeded for all the Ubuntu bashersNov 05 23:50
jonoschestowitz I know Gavin, he is a good guy, he was just reporting on what he saw in a forum - it made a good story, so he posted itNov 05 23:50
schestowitzI could be wrong, but I see the linksNov 05 23:50
schestowitzMostly to him, over a week after release timeNov 05 23:51
jonohe sees a fraction of the picture, but that is the case with most peopleNov 05 23:51
jonoschestowitz anyway, hows life in Manc? all good?Nov 05 23:51
jonoyou missed out with LRL, it was a blastNov 05 23:51
jono:)Nov 05 23:51
Ender2070Mincer - it doesnt include mono by default, thats good enough for meNov 05 23:52
schestowitzjono: yes, I knowNov 05 23:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @richardclegg Tonight i heard a danish lesbian read a quote from chairman mao in the style of mickey mouse. I love radio four recordings.Nov 05 23:52
schestowitzAnd it's rainy here in recent days. Very yucky.Nov 05 23:52
jonoschestowitz ughNov 05 23:53
jonomind you, its rainy here too!Nov 05 23:53
sebsebsebjono: I have been told on IRC about some pretty bad things that have happended to  9.10 when doing upgradesNov 05 23:53
sebsebsebfrom 9.04Nov 05 23:53
jonosebsebseb, there were certainly some quirks with someNov 05 23:53
jonobut that happens with every upgrade path in softwareNov 05 23:53
jonojust the nature of the beastNov 05 23:53
Ender2070Mincer - also, i use KDE and kubuntu 9.10 is horridNov 05 23:53
jonoright, I am gonna get back to writing my blog entryNov 05 23:53
sebsebsebdataloss and config corruption or something for one guy,  or whatever he saidNov 05 23:54
sebsebsebafter upgrading an Ext4 9.04 install to 9.10Nov 05 23:54
MinceRi don't see how it's horridNov 05 23:54
MinceRmy only issue is that usb-serial doesn't want to work, i don't yet know whyNov 05 23:54
sebsebsebI can get it from the log   what he said, or just read it again, and  say what he saidNov 05 23:55
Ender2070left clicking in firefox stops working for meNov 05 23:55
MinceR(it seems it isn't a kernel issue, even though that's what i originally suspected)Nov 05 23:55
sebsebseb,but it was rather badNov 05 23:55
sebsebsebwhat he told meNov 05 23:55
*schestowitz happy with 9.10Nov 05 23:56
schestowitz[Since alpha]Nov 05 23:56
MinceRmy netbook has 9.10 since betaNov 05 23:57
Ender2070Mincer - another good point is that fedora-kde sig keeps up to date with the latest kde vs waiting 6 months for a point releaseNov 05 23:57
MinceRso they throw untested releases at you? :>Nov 05 23:57
Ender2070they are testedNov 05 23:57
Ender2070theres an updates-testing repo for people to check stuff out before it goes to the publicNov 05 23:58
Ender2070I got KDE 4.3 in F11, only a couple weeks after it was releasedNov 05 23:58

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