| jose_X | that would be good news | Nov 07 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| jose_X | also, the quoted text points out that windows doesn't use the stronger sha.. what do they use? | Nov 07 00:01 |
| jose_X | anyone know? | Nov 07 00:01 |
| schestowitz | I think I use SHA5 in Thunderbird | Nov 07 00:01 |
| schestowitz | pgp uses it a lot | Nov 07 00:02 |
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| jose_X | wait... windows appears to use the weaker but still safe sha-1 ..never mind | Nov 07 00:02 |
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| jose_X | just looked recently at gpg.. i think it uses "CAST5" by default for symmetric key encryptions.. is that what you meant, schestowitz | Nov 07 00:04 |
| Ender2070 | sha-1 is hardly "safe" | Nov 07 00:04 |
| Ender2070 | its as safe as md5 | Nov 07 00:04 |
| jose_X | wikipedia said that a collision had not been found | Nov 07 00:05 |
| jose_X | should that be fixed? | Nov 07 00:05 |
| Ender2070 | The authors have presented a collision for 58-round SHA-1, found with 233 hash operations. | Nov 07 00:07 |
| Ender2070 | 2^33 | Nov 07 00:07 |
| Ender2070 | hash operations | Nov 07 00:07 |
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| _Hicham_ | finally NetworkManager is supporting my CDMA Modem | Nov 07 00:08 |
| _Hicham_ | great work from Dan Williams | Nov 07 00:09 |
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| schestowitz | fewa: this one is good: JESSE VENTURA 2012 - SEAN HANNITY INTERVIEWS JESSE 5-18-09 < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GucRw1qPEck > | Nov 07 00:11 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : who is [H]omer ? | Nov 07 00:14 |
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| lordtoran | the embedded market is huge - just found out that the pie chart i posted before is outdated | Nov 07 00:16 |
| lordtoran | embedded grows much faster than desktops | Nov 07 00:16 |
| *cubezzz looks at his zaurus | Nov 07 00:16 | |
| schestowitz | Jesse Ventura Challenges Hannity to Waterboarding http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkeVauU0Qh4&NR=1&feature=fvwp | Nov 07 00:16 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: Slated | Nov 07 00:16 |
| lordtoran | one billion mobile phones produced in 2008 | Nov 07 00:17 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : and who is slated ? | Nov 07 00:17 |
| schestowitz | 4 billion embedded devices | Nov 07 00:17 |
| lordtoran | and that's only one part of the embedded market | Nov 07 00:17 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: your worst nightmare ! | Nov 07 00:17 |
| lordtoran | yep | Nov 07 00:17 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : why do u say that to me ? | Nov 07 00:17 |
| lordtoran | my pie was based on 2006-2007 shipments data | Nov 07 00:18 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : am I Miguel de Icaza ? | Nov 07 00:18 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : thanks for answering me | Nov 07 00:19 |
| lordtoran | shipped desktop CPUs per year should be around 400 millions now, and ARM alone at ~2.5 billion | Nov 07 00:20 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I didn't expect that kind of answer | Nov 07 00:21 |
| lordtoran | embedded is *huge* :-) | Nov 07 00:21 |
| lordtoran | however all operating system data in that market is very unreliable | Nov 07 00:23 |
| lordtoran | for real studies you have to pay fat €€€ | Nov 07 00:24 |
| lordtoran | Commercial and free linux together /might/ be around 50% over all segments if i read correctly between the lines | Nov 07 00:26 |
| lordtoran | then there's VxWorks, QNX and another half-billion competitors | Nov 07 00:27 |
| lordtoran | most unix based | Nov 07 00:27 |
| Ender2070 | the only OS worth it's salt is Plan9 | Nov 07 00:28 |
| lordtoran | it was renamed i think | Nov 07 00:28 |
| Ender2070 | theres a plan9 derivitive, inferno | Nov 07 00:29 |
| cubezzz | right Ender2070, so which OS are you running now? :) | Nov 07 00:29 |
| Ender2070 | lol fedora 11 | Nov 07 00:30 |
| lordtoran | i didn't know it was a fork | Nov 07 00:30 |
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| Ender2070 | cubezzz - plan9 is considered a researchos, but its light enough I could throw onto a p2 notebook I have in the closet somewhere | Nov 07 00:31 |
| Ender2070 | research os | Nov 07 00:32 |
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| _Hicham_ | research os | Nov 07 00:36 |
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| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : where r u ? | Nov 07 00:54 |
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| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is silent | Nov 07 01:05 |
| _Hicham_ | weird ! | Nov 07 01:05 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: hey | Nov 07 01:08 |
| schestowitz | Catching up | Nov 07 01:08 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: no, just done some news links | Nov 07 01:09 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : thanks for the nice answer | Nov 07 01:09 |
| schestowitz |  | Nov 07 01:09 |
| schestowitz | [00:17] <_Hicham_> schestowitz : why do u say that to me ? | Nov 07 01:09 |
| schestowitz | That was a joke | Nov 07 01:09 |
| schestowitz | [00:18] <_Hicham_> schestowitz : am I Miguel de Icaza ? | Nov 07 01:09 |
| schestowitz | whois _hitcham_ | Nov 07 01:09 |
| _Hicham_ | whois _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:09 |
| _Hicham_ | maybe u were thinking that I am Miguel | Nov 07 01:10 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_ is a user on channels: #boycottnovell #fedora-devel | Nov 07 01:10 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_ is a Fedora hacka' | Nov 07 01:10 |
| schestowitz | There's lots Ubuntu FUD at the moment. I'll do a post about it tomorrow. | Nov 07 01:11 |
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| _Hicham_ | so this [H]omer aka Slated , will stay Mr Mysterious ? | Nov 07 01:11 |
| _Hicham_ | Ubuntu FUD will never stop | Nov 07 01:12 |
| _Hicham_ | like u will never answer my question | Nov 07 01:12 |
| oiaohm | lordtoran: embeded Unix based is rare. freebsd/bsd maybe. VxWorks and QNX are posix releated. | Nov 07 01:16 |
| _Hicham_ | <embed object='oiaohm' width='infinite' height='infinite' /> | Nov 07 01:18 |
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| oiaohm | I do know of few embed AIX systems ie pure Unix there. Rare insanely so. | Nov 07 01:19 |
| _Hicham_ | OkIAmOverHereMan | Nov 07 01:20 |
| _Hicham_ | did u mean that PackageKit is aiming to replacing traditional package managers ? | Nov 07 01:21 |
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| oiaohm | _Hicham_: issue traditional package managers don't exacty work in all cases. | Nov 07 01:22 |
| lordtoran | schestowitz, QNX is linux inspired | Nov 07 01:22 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : what do u mean ? | Nov 07 01:22 |
| oiaohm | PackageKit provides a interface back to them that may fill in the gap cases. | Nov 07 01:22 |
| _Hicham_ | that some package managers fail ? | Nov 07 01:22 |
| oiaohm | You install from source _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:23 |
| oiaohm | What tracking is done _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:23 |
| _Hicham_ | u install from source using packagekit ? | Nov 07 01:23 |
| lordtoran | i think the embedded software market has shifted quite dramatically since 2005 | Nov 07 01:23 |
| lordtoran | there were moe unix derivates back then | Nov 07 01:23 |
| _Hicham_ | that, I didn't know of | Nov 07 01:23 |
| oiaohm | Currently source packages cannot support all package format ou there _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:24 |
| oiaohm | out | Nov 07 01:24 |
| _Hicham_ | packagekit doesn't work with source packages | Nov 07 01:24 |
| _Hicham_ | it just call the backend | Nov 07 01:24 |
| oiaohm | Yet it can be interfaced with by source packages to install stuf. | Nov 07 01:24 |
| _Hicham_ | and the backend respond | Nov 07 01:25 |
| _Hicham_ | how ? | Nov 07 01:25 |
| _Hicham_ | richard hughes didn't talk about this functionality | Nov 07 01:25 |
| lordtoran | oiaohm, yes probably most embeddeds OSes lean to posix but aren't unix | Nov 07 01:27 |
| lordtoran | there has to be some standard, i suppose | Nov 07 01:28 |
| lordtoran | microsoft on the other hand is relatively strong in not so deeply embedded systems like POS terminals | Nov 07 01:30 |
| lordtoran | typically these are x86 but microsofts embedded line also supports ARM, MIPS and a few more | Nov 07 01:31 |
| oiaohm | _Hicham_: Big advantage is that package kit allows multi backends. If someone want to be evil they can register there own for there own applications. So able to add there own uninstallers. There is more than 1 way to skin the cat. | Nov 07 01:31 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: privacy for Slated | Nov 07 01:32 |
| schestowitz | see slates.org | Nov 07 01:32 |
| schestowitz | see slated.org | Nov 07 01:32 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : and privacy for _Hicham_ too | Nov 07 01:33 |
| oiaohm | lordtoran: most lean to posix due to C. C langauge is nicer in a posix envorment. | Nov 07 01:33 |
| schestowitz | I know your full name | Nov 07 01:33 |
| schestowitz | The gentleman in a suit | Nov 07 01:33 |
| lordtoran | ah, i didn't think of that, oiaohm | Nov 07 01:33 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_ is the grace of Morocco's high society... | Nov 07 01:34 |
| lordtoran | C and Unix, their common history | Nov 07 01:34 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I don't fear anything | Nov 07 01:34 |
| schestowitz | Neither does Daemon | Nov 07 01:34 |
| schestowitz | He'd bomb anything that stands in the way, even doctors | Nov 07 01:34 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : DaemonFC is afraid from Muslims | Nov 07 01:34 |
| _Hicham_ | so if he ever sees me with a beard, he will wet his pants, hahahahahahahaha | Nov 07 01:35 |
| oiaohm | Ok what is the beard issue. | Nov 07 01:36 |
| oiaohm | Yes for a Buddhist I know I am strange to have grown one. But still its natural. | Nov 07 01:36 |
| lordtoran | i have a beard too, and I'm agnostic | Nov 07 01:36 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : PackageKit doesn't allow unknow backend | Nov 07 01:37 |
| oiaohm | I am part christian part Buddhist. | Nov 07 01:37 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : it has a backend list | Nov 07 01:37 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : so this Slated is a Fedora contributor ? | Nov 07 01:38 |
| oiaohm | Yet nothing stops you making a package for distributions to add another backend does it _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:38 |
| lordtoran | my father is a buddhist and he sort of influenced me | Nov 07 01:38 |
| lordtoran | it's a very liberal way of looking at the world | Nov 07 01:38 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : u have to submit the backend to packagekit.org | Nov 07 01:39 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : I am gonna ask hughsie about this issue | Nov 07 01:39 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : if it is true, then it is a big security issue | Nov 07 01:40 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : and PackageKit is about security too | Nov 07 01:40 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : so the user have to be dumb to install a non trusted package | Nov 07 01:40 |
| _Hicham_ | u can run but u can't hide | Nov 07 01:41 |
| _Hicham_ | that is what Slated is doing | Nov 07 01:42 |
| _Hicham_ | he is running | Nov 07 01:42 |
| _Hicham_ | but he won't hide | Nov 07 01:42 |
| _Hicham_ | I am gonna find him sooner or later | Nov 07 01:42 |
| _Hicham_ | and can't hide | Nov 07 01:42 |
| _Hicham_ | even Osama Bin Laden can't hide | Nov 07 01:42 |
| oiaohm | Its not a big secruity issue. | Nov 07 01:43 |
| oiaohm | No more than the secuirty issue of running multi reposistories now _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:43 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : it is | Nov 07 01:43 |
| schestowitz | http://blog.canonical.com/?p=284 | Nov 07 01:43 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Canonical Blog » Blog Archive » The much misunderstood Ubuntu 9.10 upgrade poll .::. Size~: 11.56 KB | Nov 07 01:43 |
| schestowitz | The slurs started coming from known Microsoft boosters like Gavin Clarke. | Nov 07 01:43 |
| schestowitz | It's almost as though Microsoft is working its Vista 7 propaganda machine | Nov 07 01:43 |
| schestowitz | in reverse -- against the company which only in its last SEC filing it named | Nov 07 01:43 |
| schestowitz | as "a risk". | Nov 07 01:43 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes | Nov 07 01:43 |
| schestowitz | Like you :-) | Nov 07 01:44 |
| oiaohm | You can add your own repos to a debain fedora.... system already _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:44 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: see tagline of http://slated.org | Nov 07 01:44 |
| oiaohm | What is the difference of adding own package system as well. | Nov 07 01:44 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Slated | You can run, but you can't hide .::. Size~: 45.6 KB | Nov 07 01:44 |
| schestowitz | You can rujn, but you can't hide | Nov 07 01:44 |
| schestowitz | How timely | Nov 07 01:44 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I don't hide | Nov 07 01:44 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : u can visit me whenever u want | Nov 07 01:45 |
| _Hicham_ | I have my mail in public | Nov 07 01:45 |
| _Hicham_ | and my phone number in public | Nov 07 01:45 |
| oiaohm | _Hicham_: what is the secuirty difference between adding own repos and adding a extra package management system? | Nov 07 01:45 |
| _Hicham_ | so u r welcome anytime | Nov 07 01:45 |
| _Hicham_ | plus, I have nothing to hide | Nov 07 01:45 |
| oiaohm | If you can find a difference then there is a secuirty difference of adding a extra backend to package kit. | Nov 07 01:46 |
| oiaohm | There is a difference for those making applications third party of course _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:46 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : huge one, the extra package management ( if it is closed source ) is a real risk, because u opened the door to unknown packages | Nov 07 01:47 |
| oiaohm | Same with linking to a closed source repoistory _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:47 |
| _Hicham_ | it can do whatever it wants, once privilegies are granted | Nov 07 01:47 |
| oiaohm | None of the package manager are appling secuirty limitations. | Nov 07 01:47 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I think ur slated is just a coward | Nov 07 01:48 |
| oiaohm | To what the packages in the closed source repo can assign to themselves _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:48 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : sorry, but that is my opinion | Nov 07 01:48 |
| oiaohm | There is no secuirty difference _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:48 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : no there is a huge difference | Nov 07 01:48 |
| oiaohm | So I can from a closed source repo replace the kernel. | Nov 07 01:48 |
| oiaohm | The pure core. | Nov 07 01:49 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : which ur package manager, u can check what the package contains | Nov 07 01:49 |
| oiaohm | And current package management systems will allow. | Nov 07 01:49 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : the proprietary one may trick u | Nov 07 01:49 |
| oiaohm | rpm deb all will allow. | Nov 07 01:49 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, it is ur decision | Nov 07 01:49 |
| _Hicham_ | u can add whatever repo u want | Nov 07 01:49 |
| _Hicham_ | but u know which packages are being added | Nov 07 01:49 |
| _Hicham_ | better, dpkg will even show u the pre/post install scripts | Nov 07 01:50 |
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| oiaohm | Issue here you can already install stuff high enough that they can do what ever they like from a repo _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:50 |
| _Hicham_ | now, with a closed source package manager, u wouldn't even know what is it doing, u must debug it | Nov 07 01:50 |
| oiaohm | The third party one does not have to be closed _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:51 |
| oiaohm | Just not under the distributions control and support using packagekit to install parts compadibliey. | Nov 07 01:51 |
| cubezzz | the economy still feels very sluggish | Nov 07 01:52 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : so what is the package manager overwrites one of ur key libraries | Nov 07 01:52 |
| _Hicham_ | ? | Nov 07 01:52 |
| cubezzz | but I'm launching a CD anyway, yay :-P | Nov 07 01:52 |
| _Hicham_ | at least, if ur using ur distro one, it will inform u | Nov 07 01:52 |
| cubezzz | all done with Linux tools | Nov 07 01:52 |
| oiaohm | What do you think nvidia installers do now _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:52 |
| _Hicham_ | with another package manager, things may get really messy | Nov 07 01:53 |
| oiaohm | Without tracking of any form _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:53 |
| _Hicham_ | nvidia installers are known | Nov 07 01:53 |
| oiaohm | So why do package managers update mesa and the like destorying the files they installed. | Nov 07 01:53 |
| _Hicham_ | people know what things are gonna be modified, overwritten | Nov 07 01:53 |
| _Hicham_ | they check for dependencies first | Nov 07 01:54 |
| _Hicham_ | that is the big difference | Nov 07 01:54 |
| oiaohm | Only can check for dependancies if package is registered _Hicham_ | Nov 07 01:54 |
| _Hicham_ | of course | Nov 07 01:54 |
| _Hicham_ | i am not talking about external changes | Nov 07 01:55 |
| oiaohm | .run files and may other forms of cross distribution installers don't regester. | Nov 07 01:55 |
| _Hicham_ | who is the moron who will try to install closed source packages to system directories ? | Nov 07 01:55 |
| oiaohm | Since there is no clean framework for them to register. | Nov 07 01:55 |
| _Hicham_ | it is up to the user to know what they are doing | Nov 07 01:56 |
| oiaohm | You are thinking that closed source people will be insane. | Nov 07 01:56 |
| _Hicham_ | however, there is a great wrapper in Debian : fakeroot | Nov 07 01:56 |
| oiaohm | If they break system they will be hated. | Nov 07 01:56 |
| oiaohm | Yet they still need the means to do automatic updates. | Nov 07 01:56 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : no, that they might break systems | Nov 07 01:56 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : in this case, let install them into the home folder | Nov 07 01:57 |
| _Hicham_ | like i do with games | Nov 07 01:57 |
| oiaohm | That has limits. | Nov 07 01:57 |
| _Hicham_ | no system wide libraries | Nov 07 01:57 |
| _Hicham_ | which limit ? | Nov 07 01:57 |
| oiaohm | If you have a 50 user system. | Nov 07 01:57 |
| oiaohm | How will you know that all 50 users have upto date versions. | Nov 07 01:58 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : install it then to the /opt folder | Nov 07 01:58 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : isn't that feasible ? | Nov 07 01:58 |
| oiaohm | So you will have to manually check the opt folder. | Nov 07 01:59 |
| oiaohm | Or do you want each program checking when they run. | Nov 07 01:59 |
| oiaohm | Basically you have mess. | Nov 07 01:59 |
| _Hicham_ | check and notify me | Nov 07 01:59 |
| oiaohm | Same reason why we are not all using slackware. | Nov 07 01:59 |
| _Hicham_ | and i will decide if i am gonna update or no | Nov 07 01:59 |
| oiaohm | In its first form. | Nov 07 01:59 |
| _Hicham_ | I hate automatic updates | Nov 07 02:00 |
| schestowitz | [01:45] <_Hicham_> schestowitz : u can visit me whenever u want | Nov 07 02:00 |
| schestowitz | thanks | Nov 07 02:00 |
| oiaohm | package management is need in a distribution netural form. | Nov 07 02:00 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : really, with an open heart | Nov 07 02:00 |
| schestowitz | I'll bring the coffee | Nov 07 02:00 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : but be prepared for the pushup contest | Nov 07 02:01 |
| oiaohm | _Hicham_: there also needs to be a single interface for users to find out what the current status of the packages they installed. | Nov 07 02:01 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : but ur friend Slated isn't welcome, because I don't like cowards | Nov 07 02:01 |
| schestowitz | I'm gonna post some links now. | Nov 07 02:01 |
| schestowitz | Slated is actually your friend | Nov 07 02:02 |
| schestowitz | You don't know him apparently. His views are similar to mine on many issues | Nov 07 02:02 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : my friends do not hide | Nov 07 02:02 |
| schestowitz | He doesn't | Nov 07 02:02 |
| schestowitz | Opposite | Nov 07 02:02 |
| schestowitz | He's exposing people | Nov 07 02:02 |
| schestowitz | RIAA, Bush, Ballmer..... | Nov 07 02:02 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : must expose himself first | Nov 07 02:02 |
| schestowitz | Read his political stuff | Nov 07 02:02 |
| _Hicham_ | before thinking of exposing people | Nov 07 02:02 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: it's not hidden | Nov 07 02:03 |
| schestowitz | He doesn't hide it | Nov 07 02:03 |
| schestowitz | It would be impolite for me to drop names, though | Nov 07 02:03 |
| oiaohm | I hate slated at times. | Nov 07 02:03 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I don't see any name on the site | Nov 07 02:03 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : which is impolite for me | Nov 07 02:03 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I don't read anonymous blogs | Nov 07 02:04 |
| oiaohm | Linus hates the hate of MS mostly because it destracts from focusing on the main problem improving Linux. | Nov 07 02:04 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : packagekit already provides the update state interface | Nov 07 02:04 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: it was reactionary | Nov 07 02:04 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : it has a common UI across all distros | Nov 07 02:04 |
| cubezzz | you can't argue Microsoft though | Nov 07 02:04 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: but you accept Colin/s (oiaohm) | Nov 07 02:05 |
| cubezzz | it only makes sense to watch what they're up to | Nov 07 02:05 |
| cubezzz | er, ignore I mean :) | Nov 07 02:05 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : no, I know oiaohm | Nov 07 02:05 |
| schestowitz | You do? | Nov 07 02:05 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : and he is not Colin | Nov 07 02:05 |
| schestowitz | I can't recall the name | Nov 07 02:05 |
| schestowitz | And it doesn't matter | Nov 07 02:05 |
| schestowitz | It's an alias | Nov 07 02:05 |
| schestowitz | Slated too is an alias | Nov 07 02:06 |
| schestowitz | Not a coward | Nov 07 02:06 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : plus, oiaohm always talk to us | Nov 07 02:06 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : he never talks in the channel | Nov 07 02:06 |
| oiaohm | My alias does not take long to find my real name. | Nov 07 02:06 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : so he may think that he is superior or sthg | Nov 07 02:06 |
| schestowitz | Busy w/ other things | Nov 07 02:06 |
| schestowitz | Silence is gold | Nov 07 02:06 |
| oiaohm | I don't really hide. | Nov 07 02:06 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm is known all over the world | Nov 07 02:06 |
| oiaohm | To be correct my alias makes it simpler to find me. | Nov 07 02:06 |
| oiaohm | Compared to all my releations with the same first middle and last name. | Nov 07 02:07 |
| _Hicham_ | I can even see oiaohm in the night within the stars :) | Nov 07 02:07 |
| oiaohm | So its not really effective hiding. | Nov 07 02:07 |
| _Hicham_ | shining all over the world | Nov 07 02:07 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : why do u think that he is my friend ? | Nov 07 02:08 |
| oiaohm | packagekit is providing the framework to unify the fround end _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:08 |
| oiaohm | So allowing more than 1 backend _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:08 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : yes, I have had the same experience across multiple distros | Nov 07 02:08 |
| _Hicham_ | oh no this was to oiaohm | Nov 07 02:09 |
| oiaohm | It happens. | Nov 07 02:09 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : I have used PackageKit on Fedora, openSUSE, Mandriva, and Ubuntu | Nov 07 02:09 |
| _Hicham_ | I have had the same experience | Nov 07 02:09 |
| _Hicham_ | except Mandriva, where the backend is not yet mature | Nov 07 02:10 |
| oiaohm | Now with packagekit it makes it possiable for a single design third party package management to look up what is installed. | Nov 07 02:10 |
| oiaohm | And not install duplication _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:10 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, exactly | Nov 07 02:11 |
| oiaohm | So making third party stuff smaller. | Nov 07 02:11 |
| oiaohm | And lower secuirty risk. | Nov 07 02:11 |
| oiaohm | Now it would be better of course if there was a unified one for third party. | Nov 07 02:11 |
| _Hicham_ | so maybe instead of calling the package manager directly, we will call packagekit | Nov 07 02:11 |
| _Hicham_ | so if ever packagekit proposes a unified package format, ISVs will ships in it immediately | Nov 07 02:12 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: interesting, good stuff | Nov 07 02:12 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : what is good stuff ? | Nov 07 02:13 |
| oiaohm | And once ISV have unified package format source packages can use that in there installer stage. | Nov 07 02:13 |
| oiaohm | So allowing everything over time to be cleaned up _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:13 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : PackageKit will play the role of an intermediate between the installer and the native package manager | Nov 07 02:13 |
| oiaohm | We just need to get there _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:13 |
| _Hicham_ | u just have to use PackageKit API when generating ur package | Nov 07 02:14 |
| _Hicham_ | but PackageKit doesn't support that for the moment | Nov 07 02:14 |
| _Hicham_ | it does just basic calls | Nov 07 02:15 |
| _Hicham_ | more advanced calls will be a pain to implement | Nov 07 02:15 |
| oiaohm | Basic calls are far nicer. | Nov 07 02:15 |
| _Hicham_ | how ? | Nov 07 02:15 |
| oiaohm | Then having to embed support for every package manager in existance to query stuff _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:15 |
| oiaohm | In an installer. | Nov 07 02:15 |
| _Hicham_ | no, that wouldn't be in the installer | Nov 07 02:16 |
| _Hicham_ | that will be in the backend | Nov 07 02:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Runs Legacy Applications Better/More Cheaply Than #Vista7 Does http://ur1.ca/fav3 | Nov 07 02:16 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: GNU/Linux: Virtualbox for solving a common small business problem. The ERACC Web Log .::. Size~: 75.99 KB | Nov 07 02:16 |
| _Hicham_ | the installer will have the same calls across all distros | Nov 07 02:16 |
| oiaohm | I was meaning at current day level. | Nov 07 02:16 |
| _Hicham_ | no, that wouldn't be the right way to do it | Nov 07 02:17 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not a design at all | Nov 07 02:17 |
| _Hicham_ | it would be just mess | Nov 07 02:17 |
| oiaohm | We have mess now. | Nov 07 02:17 |
| _Hicham_ | the proper way is to call PackageKit only | Nov 07 02:17 |
| oiaohm | It would be a little less mess going in the right direction. | Nov 07 02:17 |
| oiaohm | Hopefully in time it gets to nice and tidy. | Nov 07 02:18 |
| _Hicham_ | and PackageKit will then translate the calls to the native package manager via the backend | Nov 07 02:18 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Electric Motorcycle Runs #Linux http://ur1.ca/facb http://ur1.ca/fav5 http://ur1.ca/fav6 | Nov 07 02:18 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Mavizens Electric Motorcycle Has Built-In Wi-Fi, Linux | Gizmodo Australia .::. Size~: 37.18 KB | Nov 07 02:18 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Mavizen's all electric supermotorcycle for the TTXGP circuit is revealed .::. Size~: 66.84 KB | Nov 07 02:18 |
| _Hicham_ | hughsie is really ambitious about the project | Nov 07 02:18 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: SEMA 2009: Mavizen introduces 130-mph TTX02 electric racebike — Autoblog Green .::. Size~: 83.75 KB | Nov 07 02:18 |
| _Hicham_ | some distros follow, some not | Nov 07 02:18 |
| oiaohm | Most will follow _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:18 |
| _Hicham_ | openSUSE devs are doing really a great job | Nov 07 02:18 |
| oiaohm | Big reason is KDE and Gnome are intergrating. | Nov 07 02:19 |
| _Hicham_ | they even installed PackageKit updater as default system updater | Nov 07 02:19 |
| oiaohm | Control upstream down stream resists for a while then toes line because it just becomes too hard to resist. | Nov 07 02:19 |
| _Hicham_ | and the zypper backend is at the same level of maturity as the yum backend | Nov 07 02:19 |
| _Hicham_ | Gnome and KDE integrating ? | Nov 07 02:20 |
| oiaohm | Gnome and KDE are intergrating support for packagekit. | Nov 07 02:20 |
| oiaohm | So it will in time become one of there dependancies. | Nov 07 02:21 |
| cubezzz | how about stand-alone TV that runs Linux :) | Nov 07 02:21 |
| oiaohm | Get the rest of the wm on board and you have the resisting distrobutions snookered _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:21 |
| cubezzz | I will buy a new TV soon | Nov 07 02:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux 'Lacks' Activation #Antifeature http://bit.ly/4eJvQk | Nov 07 02:22 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: One Click Linux: Activation Frustration? Not With Linux! .::. Size~: 119.73 KB | Nov 07 02:22 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : distros won't resist | Nov 07 02:22 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : Ubuntu is using PackageKit in Ubuntu Software Center | Nov 07 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Never say won't _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:23 |
| oiaohm | We still have some distributions resisting common path system after all these years _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:23 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : the main distros are accepting it | Nov 07 02:23 |
| oiaohm | The big thing is the resisting ones will be pushed to edges. | Nov 07 02:23 |
| oiaohm | Even if they are one of the mains now. | Nov 07 02:24 |
| _Hicham_ | openSUSE, Ubuntu, and Mandriva at a lesser level | Nov 07 02:24 |
| _Hicham_ | those are the main ones I know | Nov 07 02:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ballmer Not Ready Yet to Throw Away #Windows and Join the Inevitable ( #Linux ) http://ur1.ca/favf | Nov 07 02:24 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ex-MSFT Employee: Microsoft Should Run Linux - Tom's Hardware .::. Size~: 140.22 KB | Nov 07 02:24 |
| oiaohm | Lot of aptitude developers at debian call policykit the wrong way _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:24 |
| _Hicham_ | (I didn't mention Fedora because it is the origin of PackageKit) | Nov 07 02:24 |
| oiaohm | So its package and we are going to have some debian resistance all over again _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:25 |
| oiaohm | What is new. | Nov 07 02:25 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : Ubuntu is accepting it | Nov 07 02:25 |
| _Hicham_ | they will push it into Debian | Nov 07 02:25 |
| _Hicham_ | don't worry | Nov 07 02:25 |
| oiaohm | This time around we have ubuntu to level out Debian insaneness in package system. | Nov 07 02:25 |
| _Hicham_ | Debian is all worried about its debconf | Nov 07 02:26 |
| _Hicham_ | but what does debconf do ? | Nov 07 02:26 |
| oiaohm | Configure packages. | Nov 07 02:26 |
| _Hicham_ | display a license ? it is already supported by packagekit | Nov 07 02:26 |
| oiaohm | That really should be done by policykit with nicer frount end. | Nov 07 02:26 |
| oiaohm | It does way more than display licence _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:26 |
| _Hicham_ | display a diff of installed config and maintainer files ? easy to implement in packagekit | Nov 07 02:27 |
| oiaohm | You can alter like ports used set machine names ... | Nov 07 02:27 |
| oiaohm | Basically a wizard _Hicham_ | Nov 07 02:27 |
| oiaohm | To set the application up. | Nov 07 02:27 |
| _Hicham_ | this is just unacceptable, and too risky | Nov 07 02:27 |
| oiaohm | Note debconf was also the point that brought lsb rpm undone. | Nov 07 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Debian has a lot of services install disabled until configured. | Nov 07 02:28 |
| oiaohm | Really good idea. But it does give more work to the package management system. | Nov 07 02:28 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't agree with Debconf | Nov 07 02:29 |
| _Hicham_ | it doesn't treat a package installation as a transaction | Nov 07 02:29 |
| oiaohm | Debconf most of it should be replaced by stuff based off policykit. | Nov 07 02:29 |
| oiaohm | So you can control what users can configure what services. | Nov 07 02:29 |
| _Hicham_ | during the transaction, nothing can be done, it is a atomic | Nov 07 02:29 |
| _Hicham_ | I don't agree with that at all | Nov 07 02:30 |
| _Hicham_ | what if we have a power outage during debconf ? | Nov 07 02:30 |
| oiaohm | debconf can rerun. | Nov 07 02:30 |
| _Hicham_ | at any stage ? | Nov 07 02:30 |
| oiaohm | At any stage. | Nov 07 02:30 |
| oiaohm | after the package is installed of coruse. | Nov 07 02:31 |
| oiaohm | Not before. Ie you don't have the wisard before. | Nov 07 02:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Desktop #GNU #Linux Runs All #Windows Applications, Too http://ur1.ca/fav3 | Nov 07 02:31 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: GNU/Linux: Virtualbox for solving a common small business problem. The ERACC Web Log .::. Size~: 75.99 KB | Nov 07 02:31 |
| _Hicham_ | is debconf run after the package is installed or before ? | Nov 07 02:31 |
| oiaohm | debconf is run after package is installed. | Nov 07 02:31 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is protecting some mysterious people | Nov 07 02:32 |
| oiaohm | To configure and active package. | Nov 07 02:32 |
| oiaohm | Think debconf is the sence of windows control panel. | Nov 07 02:32 |
| oiaohm | Then think about taking the windows control panel away from a windows user | Nov 07 02:32 |
| _Hicham_ | think it isn't a problem for packagekit | Nov 07 02:32 |
| oiaohm | and think about how long you are going to live. | Nov 07 02:32 |
| _Hicham_ | packagekit will wait until config is done | Nov 07 02:32 |
| oiaohm | Debian users are use to install package then configure system appears. | Nov 07 02:33 |
| oiaohm | for packages they installed. | Nov 07 02:33 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LinuxKongress 2009 Covers #Kernel Space http://ur1.ca/faw0 | Nov 07 02:33 | |
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| _Hicham_ | who said that we will take debconf away if it is like that ? | Nov 07 02:33 |
| oiaohm | It could be handled by the frount ends or packagekit. | Nov 07 02:33 |
| oiaohm | Problem better by package kit. | Nov 07 02:34 |
| oiaohm | Ie list of installed packages to check if they need configuring or not. | Nov 07 02:34 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, the PackageKit-apt-backend is the most appropriate place for it | Nov 07 02:34 |
| _Hicham_ | that where I will think of coding that | Nov 07 02:34 |
| oiaohm | It just cannot be missed or you will have the debian guys out to kill you. | Nov 07 02:34 |
| _Hicham_ | I will talk to hughsie about that | Nov 07 02:35 |
| oiaohm | And you have seen the result of that with LSB RPM. | Nov 07 02:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @RedPlebiscite  Only Progressive thing the U.S. cn do in the Middle East is GET THE HELL OUT! #fem2 #Afghanistan #antiwar #p2 #palestine | Nov 07 02:35 | |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : don't worry, hughsie is far smarter than lsb | Nov 07 02:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Dominance in #HPC and #Mainframes Passes to #Servers and Vice Versa http://ur1.ca/fawa | Nov 07 02:36 | |
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| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I hardly know mysterious people | Nov 07 02:36 |
| oiaohm | _Hicham_: I know but we don't need another repeat of bad history. | Nov 07 02:37 |
| schestowitz | I know just one person from the Secret Services | Nov 07 02:37 |
| oiaohm | _Hicham_: it simple to over look the importance of a item. | Nov 07 02:37 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : then it must be me | Nov 07 02:37 |
| cubezzz | Mutex? :-0 | Nov 07 02:37 |
| _Hicham_ | I work in Secret Services | Nov 07 02:37 |
| _Hicham_ | CIA, Scotland Yard, and KGB | Nov 07 02:38 |
| schestowitz | It's to do with cronyism actually | Nov 07 02:38 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : hughsie is not against the idea | Nov 07 02:38 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : hughsie need people to help him | Nov 07 02:38 |
| schestowitz | Because there is the risk of commerce hijacking the authorities | Nov 07 02:39 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_ is wanted by the Secret Services... they want to have a party with him... folks like Daemon bore the hell outta them | Nov 07 02:39 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I will tell my friends at Scoltand Yard to come to visit you :) | Nov 07 02:39 |
| schestowitz | Cool. | Nov 07 02:39 |
| cubezzz | hahaha | Nov 07 02:39 |
| schestowitz | Gifts welcome. | Nov 07 02:40 |
| oiaohm | I guess just as long as they are not like clearance charages to be used on your house schestowitz. | Nov 07 02:40 |
| schestowitz | I don't do anything illicit | Nov 07 02:42 |
| schestowitz | In all my experiences with law-enforcing agencies I was helping them | Nov 07 02:42 |
| oiaohm | All bar 1 with me. | Nov 07 02:43 |
| schestowitz | Crime in the UK is soaring | Nov 07 02:43 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: sweet tooth for Linux, the 'terrorist OS'? | Nov 07 02:43 |
| oiaohm | Then it was another guy had disobeyed the instructions I had give and I was in trouble because a person with a PHD could blieve that what I wrote was . | Nov 07 02:43 |
| *_Hicham_ thinks that schestowitz is a terrorist in MS terminology | Nov 07 02:44 | |
| oiaohm | Linux does a better job of data recovery than windows. | Nov 07 02:44 |
| cubezzz | schestowitz, how come? | Nov 07 02:44 |
| oiaohm | So that might be useful to a terrorist | Nov 07 02:44 |
| oiaohm | It also has good tools for clearing it self out as well. | Nov 07 02:45 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I don't terrorise anyone | Nov 07 02:46 |
| schestowitz | I don't threaten to achieve objectives, I usually expose embarrassments | Nov 07 02:46 |
| cubezzz | it's a tool, morally neutral, unless you say it's good for sharing :) | Nov 07 02:46 |
| cubezzz | Good as in Stallman Good | Nov 07 02:46 |
| schestowitz | Scandals lead to change in behaviour, not aggression | Nov 07 02:46 |
| cubezzz | all depends on your POV | Nov 07 02:47 |
| cubezzz | when you're a rich billionaire Linux = bad | Nov 07 02:47 |
| schestowitz | Today I spoke to a friend who thought no music was free | Nov 07 02:47 |
| schestowitz | He was brainwashed to believe that all music is copyrighted by default. Never heard of creative commons. | Nov 07 02:47 |
| schestowitz | See? This is why FSF opposes the RIAA motions | Nov 07 02:48 |
| schestowitz | They encourage people to think that sharing is bad | Nov 07 02:48 |
| schestowitz | _all_ sharing | Nov 07 02:48 |
| cubezzz | Good King Wenceslas should come back from the dead and bash people who put DRM on Christmas Carols | Nov 07 02:49 |
| oiaohm | Really cubezzz | Nov 07 02:50 |
| oiaohm | There are rich billionaries that like Linux. | Nov 07 02:50 |
| oiaohm | Ok if you are a rich billionaries selling software you hate Linux it under cuts your profit. | Nov 07 02:50 |
| _Hicham_ | I am a rich billionaire | Nov 07 02:50 |
| cubezzz | sorry, I should specifiy Microsoft Billionaries | Nov 07 02:50 |
| cubezzz | Good King Wenceslas, a centuries old Christmas Carol, should _not_ have DRM on it | Nov 07 02:51 |
| schestowitz | Michael Dell uses Linux on a laptop | Nov 07 02:52 |
| cubezzz | I don't even understand why Gates and Ballmer care about Linux so much | Nov 07 02:53 |
| cubezzz | they are already extremely rich | Nov 07 02:53 |
| schestowitz | You don't understand... | Nov 07 02:53 |
| _Hicham_ | I use Linux on Windows | Nov 07 02:53 |
| schestowitz | It's not about making a living to them | Nov 07 02:53 |
| schestowitz | It's about statis | Nov 07 02:53 |
| schestowitz | And they use bank statements and influence to keep scores | Nov 07 02:54 |
| cubezzz | that seems quite petty | Nov 07 02:54 |
| schestowitz | They fight over domination.... with territories as assets... and medals and stuff | Nov 07 02:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KDE4 - Happiness, More News http://ur1.ca/fax2 http://ur1.ca/fax3 http://ur1.ca/fax4 http://ur1.ca/fax5 | Nov 07 02:56 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New List of Free/Libre #GNU #Linux Distributions http://www.daniweb.com/news/story236418.html | Nov 07 02:57 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: 9 Free Linux Distributions: A Linux Free For All - Window and Desktop Managers News Story .::. Size~: 56.72 KB | Nov 07 02:57 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Cursory #Reviews of the New #Moblin 2.1 http://ur1.ca/fax9 http://ur1.ca/faxb | Nov 07 02:59 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Fedora 12 Put to the Test http://bit.ly/4cOX0G | Nov 07 03:00 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Fantastic New #Reviews of #Mandriva 2010 http://ur1.ca/faxm http://ur1.ca/faxn My favourite | Nov 07 03:02 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Debian Family Has Another New Release ( #SimplyMEPIS ) http://www.mepis.org/node/14223 | Nov 07 03:13 | |
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| cubezzz | ported cal (and adventure too) to zaurus | Nov 07 03:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenMoko #WikiReader in Review http://ur1.ca/fayb | Nov 07 03:16 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Hands-on: OpenMoko WikiReader is simple, appealing - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 49.24 KB | Nov 07 03:16 |
| cubezzz | util-linux-ng ftw | Nov 07 03:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Nokia N900 Hands On Reviews, Out Days from Now http://ur1.ca/fayf http://ur1.ca/fayh Runs Linux | Nov 07 03:18 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux / #Android Ahead of the Rest in Good Phones http://ur1.ca/fayo http://ur1.ca/fayp http://ur1.ca/fayq | Nov 07 03:20 | |
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| cubezzz | don't think anything has changed in cal in a long time, since 2001 | Nov 07 03:20 |
| cubezzz | reset is just a bash script | Nov 07 03:26 |
| _Hicham_ | cubezzz : did u install F12 ? | Nov 07 03:26 |
| cubezzz | _Hicham_, no | Nov 07 03:27 |
| schestowitz | gn | Nov 07 03:28 |
| _Hicham_ | gn schestowitz | Nov 07 03:32 |
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| shreddar | I don't know if anyones awake but. | Nov 07 04:53 |
| shreddar | Compiz makes Gnome as good or better than KDE now. | Nov 07 04:53 |
| shreddar | I just realized that. | Nov 07 04:53 |
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| shreddar | I know Compiz works on both KDE and Gnome but Compiz + Gnome seems to have fixed some of my issues with Gnome. | Nov 07 04:55 |
| shreddar | I think cairo dock fixes another problem I have with Gnome. | Nov 07 04:56 |
| shreddar | Compiz seems to have fixed some issues with cairo dock as well. | Nov 07 04:56 |
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| oiaohm | Depends on your define or better shreddar | Nov 07 05:02 |
| oiaohm | Biggest issue on Gnome is lack of good intergration between application. | Nov 07 05:03 |
| oiaohm | applications. | Nov 07 05:03 |
| oiaohm | Putting in windows dressing does nothing to address that problem shreddar | Nov 07 05:03 |
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| shreddar | I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean by good integration between apps. | Nov 07 05:04 |
| oiaohm | Sharing like in the case of image editing and achiving tools under KDE share the same plugins. | Nov 07 05:06 |
| oiaohm | Gnome world has a lot of duplication that is really waste of developer time. | Nov 07 05:06 |
| oiaohm | Use of .net on Gnome platforms makes it worse. | Nov 07 05:07 |
| shreddar | I guess and I know Gnome has alot of problems but i'm starting to find more solutions to those problems now that seem to make it a better option. | Nov 07 05:08 |
| oiaohm | I hear people claim that. | Nov 07 05:09 |
| oiaohm | Why need to fix. | Nov 07 05:09 |
| oiaohm | Note using compiz with KDE 4 not wise. | Nov 07 05:10 |
| shreddar | Firefox, Chrome and Gimp are my favorite apps. KDE was always a way better Desktop than Gnome IMO. | Nov 07 05:10 |
| oiaohm | And with kde gtk applications get appearance intergrated in. | Nov 07 05:11 |
| oiaohm | Mirror is not true. | Nov 07 05:11 |
| shreddar | It just doesn't cut it though. | Nov 07 05:11 |
| shreddar | They still use GTK Dialogs. | Nov 07 05:12 |
| oiaohm | krita is one of my common applications. | Nov 07 05:12 |
| oiaohm | combind with digikam | Nov 07 05:13 |
| shreddar | Also, running 2 toolkits (not as bad as it was on my old computer) takes up more ram. | Nov 07 05:13 |
| oiaohm | Poor aguement. | Nov 07 05:13 |
| shreddar | Yeah, I kept thinking about trying Krita. | Nov 07 05:13 |
| oiaohm | Single kde application you end up with most of kde anyhow. | Nov 07 05:14 |
| oiaohm | Why limit the pool of applications you can use. | Nov 07 05:14 |
| oiaohm | It particular a bad arguement to a person like me who use programs like blender shreddar | Nov 07 05:15 |
| oiaohm | It has a complete unique tool kit all to its self. | Nov 07 05:15 |
| oiaohm | Platform netural toolkit of all things. | Nov 07 05:15 |
| oiaohm | So should I give up blender so I only use 1 toolkit ? | Nov 07 05:16 |
| shreddar | No. | Nov 07 05:16 |
| shreddar | I wouldn't either. | Nov 07 05:16 |
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| oiaohm | The idea of limit toolkits is pointless if it means giving up useful applications shreddar | Nov 07 05:17 |
| shreddar | I just remember it being a real problem on my old computer. | Nov 07 05:17 |
| oiaohm | That was part Linux kernel being a drop kick. | Nov 07 05:18 |
| oiaohm | Pushing currently running applications binary out of ram to make room for it was kinda stupid. | Nov 07 05:18 |
| shreddar | It not as bad anymore though with cheaper RAM but I never forgot that. | Nov 07 05:20 |
| oiaohm | Most of the applications I use are QT or opengl based. Opengl based particular hates compiz at times. | Nov 07 05:20 |
| oiaohm | Firefox is one of the frew exceptions. | Nov 07 05:20 |
| oiaohm | OpenOffice is no more it has GTK and QT frount ends. | Nov 07 05:21 |
| shreddar | Really, I guess that would explain things. | Nov 07 05:21 |
| shreddar | I thought it was just better integrated. | Nov 07 05:21 |
| shreddar | way better integrated | Nov 07 05:22 |
| shreddar | It not just the Dialogs though other weird things have happened running GTK apps in KDE. | Nov 07 05:24 |
| shreddar | Though they could've been bugs in Ubuntu. | Nov 07 05:25 |
| oiaohm | http://code.google.com/p/gtk-qt-engine/ This here remaps GTK dialogs to qt ones. | Nov 07 05:26 |
| oiaohm | It reduces the numbers of different dialogs. | Nov 07 05:26 |
| oiaohm | There is not a mirror for QT to GTK. | Nov 07 05:27 |
| shreddar | So it make GTK apps use QT Dialogs? | Nov 07 05:29 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Nov 07 05:29 |
| oiaohm | Little touches of intergration are all over the place in kde. | Nov 07 05:30 |
| shreddar | I can't believe it. It keep looking for something to do that. All I found was KGTK (which barely worked). | Nov 07 05:30 |
| oiaohm | http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/PIM/Akonadi#Scheduled_for_KDE_4.4_.2F_Akonadi_1.3 Just like this working on sorting out pim's. | Nov 07 05:30 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Projects/PIM/Akonadi - KDE TechBase .::. Size~: 113.86 KB | Nov 07 05:30 |
| oiaohm | There was a lot of conversy over gtk to qt when qt was still GPL only licence. | Nov 07 05:34 |
| oiaohm | These days it maps to QT4 that is LGPL shreddar | Nov 07 05:34 |
| shreddar | That's great about GTK to QT, Ubuntu needs to enable it by default. | Nov 07 05:35 |
| oiaohm | Then they will have two tool kits. | Nov 07 05:36 |
| oiaohm | They cannot have that. | Nov 07 05:36 |
| oiaohm | Ie the stupidity of all this single toolkit crap. | Nov 07 05:36 |
| shreddar | They have that now. | Nov 07 05:36 |
| shreddar | Hey It's not stupid if you bought a $200 computer back in 2003. | Nov 07 05:37 |
| oiaohm | Really drop mono include QT and KDE and give uses the best of breed applications. | Nov 07 05:37 |
| oiaohm | Not all best of breed application are going to be all on 1 toolkit. | Nov 07 05:37 |
| shreddar | Most of the ones I use are though. | Nov 07 05:40 |
| oiaohm | k3b I use for burning. | Nov 07 05:41 |
| oiaohm | basket for notes. | Nov 07 05:41 |
| oiaohm | Those two I have not changed in years. | Nov 07 05:41 |
| oiaohm | I try the gtk ones and go back. | Nov 07 05:42 |
| oiaohm | One of the current goals of kde it make it as painless to change applications as able shreddar | Nov 07 05:43 |
| oiaohm | Akonadi project is working with gtk application to common store pim information. | Nov 07 05:43 |
| oiaohm | So your data follows you. | Nov 07 05:43 |
| oiaohm | My problem I am not seeing the same kinds of intergration paths being started by the gnome guys. | Nov 07 05:44 |
| oiaohm | In kde it all started with kparts and contact shreddar | Nov 07 05:46 |
| oiaohm | contact/kontact | Nov 07 05:46 |
| shreddar | oiaohm are you sure GTK-QT is not just a them engine? | Nov 07 05:48 |
| shreddar | theme engine | Nov 07 05:48 |
| oiaohm | Its a mixture. | Nov 07 05:50 |
| oiaohm | Not all dialogs can be swaped for QT ones. | Nov 07 05:50 |
| oiaohm | For pritty common sence reasons. | Nov 07 05:50 |
| shreddar | What about Open or Save dialogs? | Nov 07 05:51 |
| oiaohm | Ie application is allowed to alter dialog and will not take too kindly to them being replaced. | Nov 07 05:51 |
| oiaohm | Open and Save is in that cat shreddar | Nov 07 05:51 |
| oiaohm | You would have noticed some gtk application tacking extra bits on to the open and save dialogs shreddar | Nov 07 05:52 |
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| shreddar | See that's a problem because with like firefox if you save in a folder in a location i uses the the nautilus settings to show the file and stuff and it's gets confusing when you go look for it with dolphin/konqueror or a Qt dialong. | Nov 07 05:54 |
| shreddar | The file management dialogs are really the only integration issues that bothered me. | Nov 07 05:56 |
| DaemonFC | I love Yahoo Answers | Nov 07 06:12 |
| DaemonFC | "What should a 16 year old do with $200?" | Nov 07 06:12 |
| DaemonFC | I feel like answering "Buy a bullet and rent a gun" | Nov 07 06:12 |
| oiaohm | Really the filemangement stuff should be a standard somewhere shreddar. | Nov 07 06:17 |
| shreddar | Yeah, that's what I'm saying. | Nov 07 06:17 |
| shreddar | Like it should be more separated from the the toolkit or something. | Nov 07 06:18 |
| shreddar | Freedesktop.org should deal with this. | Nov 07 06:18 |
| shreddar | But they still haven't. | Nov 07 06:18 |
| shreddar | Really the KDE folks just need to make a better web browser. | Nov 07 06:19 |
| shreddar | The have 2 very good file managers but one shitty web browser. | Nov 07 06:19 |
| shreddar | It's kind of funny actually. | Nov 07 06:20 |
| shreddar | I don't know what they were thinking. | Nov 07 06:22 |
| oiaohm | opera using qt as a back end for its interfaces shreddar | Nov 07 06:23 |
| oiaohm | Ok pitty its closed source shreddar | Nov 07 06:23 |
| shreddar | Opera sucks. I know I know but it does. | Nov 07 06:23 |
| shreddar | It has the worst default out of all the browsers. | Nov 07 06:24 |
| oiaohm | Qt firefox is coming. | Nov 07 06:24 |
| oiaohm | nokia is the one behind the port shreddar | Nov 07 06:25 |
| shreddar | I was keeping track of that too. But there hasn't been any news or anything in forever. | Nov 07 06:25 |
| shreddar | I've been thinking it was abandoned. | Nov 07 06:26 |
| shreddar | I'd love to try it out when it does come out just to see that dream come true though. | Nov 07 06:27 |
| oiaohm | https://wiki.mozilla.org/User:Pjohnsen/MozillaQtBuild | Nov 07 06:27 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: User:Pjohnsen/MozillaQtBuild - MozillaWiki .::. Size~: 11.74 KB | Nov 07 06:27 |
| shreddar | I've never seen those before. That last I heard of it was a separate thing Nokia was trying merge into mozilla. | Nov 07 06:30 |
| shreddar | I'm glad they're actually making head way on this. | Nov 07 06:31 |
| shreddar | Have you played around with any of it yet? | Nov 07 06:32 |
| oiaohm | qt parts are mainline firefox. | Nov 07 06:32 |
| oiaohm | its just a long time process to make stable shreddar | Nov 07 06:32 |
| oiaohm | It also using cairo for rendering that is also not stable. But runs rings around the standard gtk way. | Nov 07 06:33 |
| shreddar | I can't wait to see what Nokia and Mozilla make of this. I know Nokia has a huge interest in QT now, I wonder it they could get other companies interested. | Nov 07 06:41 |
| shreddar | I was one of the people thinking Chrome was going to use QT. | Nov 07 06:41 |
| shreddar | I guess Google just wanted it to be optimized to work on Ubuntu's default desktop. | Nov 07 06:43 |
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| shreddar | When qt-firefox finally comes out I think Kubuntu will increase in popularity. I think most people recognize KDE the best desktop on linux. | Nov 07 06:46 |
| shreddar | But like me they also recognize firefox as the best browser and gimp as the best image editor. | Nov 07 06:48 |
| oiaohm | gimp does have its weakness. | Nov 07 06:53 |
| oiaohm | gimp combine with krita is a very complete tool. | Nov 07 06:53 |
| shreddar | Yeah, gimp's 2 side bars being separate windows sometimes can be annoying and depending on the desktop can act up quite abit. | Nov 07 06:57 |
| shreddar | They should have a setting where they don't overlap each over. | Nov 07 06:58 |
| shreddar | I like to have a big window for the image but then my 2 side bars are obscured when ever I switch to it. | Nov 07 07:00 |
| shreddar | Krita and Inkscape don't have that problem. | Nov 07 07:04 |
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| oiaohm | Single window gimp the prototype does not have that problem either shreddar | Nov 07 07:23 |
| oiaohm | krita can at this stage process a few formats gimp cannot shreddar | Nov 07 07:23 |
| shreddar | What formats? | Nov 07 07:26 |
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| oiaohm | cmyk and the other non rgb formats gimp cannot handle at this stage shreddar | Nov 07 07:30 |
| oiaohm | rgb, grayscale, cmyk, lab, ycbcr and spectral colorspaces << basically everything after the first 2 gimp is shot shreddar | Nov 07 07:32 |
| oiaohm | And some of those are upto 32 bit per channel as well. shreddar | Nov 07 07:32 |
| shreddar | I image cmyk can be put to good use. | Nov 07 07:35 |
| shreddar | imagine | Nov 07 07:36 |
| oiaohm | Also it has better tablet support. each pointer on a table can be assigned a different brush or action with krita. | Nov 07 07:37 |
| shreddar | You can do that in Gimp too. | Nov 07 07:37 |
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| shreddar | I just depends on the whim of the version you have. | Nov 07 07:38 |
| oiaohm | I did not think gimp allowed assigning different colour to different pointers shreddar | Nov 07 07:39 |
| shreddar | At first mine intuos worked like that but some update in ubuntu broke it. | Nov 07 07:39 |
| shreddar | I could use the "eraser" end as a brush or a pencil and flip it over on the regular side a do the caligraphy tool. | Nov 07 07:41 |
| shreddar | I haven't even tried it in Sabayon yet. | Nov 07 07:42 |
| shreddar | I'm happy to here that Krita work with it too though. | Nov 07 07:43 |
| shreddar | I don't think the Gimp people are doing their best to get it to work sometimes. There is still the problem where Gimp/Inkscape thinks the "mouse" thing is a "puck". | Nov 07 07:46 |
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| _goblin | ahh feel much better....good nights sleep! | Nov 07 08:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Thats what I needed, a good nights sleep. I feel refreshed enough for my weekend jobs the wife has set me. :( | Nov 07 08:55 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #Netbook Remix 9.10 Works Well on #Subnotebooks http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/6893/1/ | Nov 07 09:12 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Subnotebooks with #ARM Come at Attractive Prices http://ur1.ca/fbbt | Nov 07 09:14 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: New Generation of Netbooks: $199 and $299, Eight Hour Battery & Sexy Design | Notebooks.com .::. Size~: 86.04 KB | Nov 07 09:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Runs Sub-notebooks "Like a Dream." http://ur1.ca/fbbw | Nov 07 09:15 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Technoholik: Demystifying nettops and netbooks- Corporate Dossier-Features-The Economic Times .::. Size~: 42.76 KB | Nov 07 09:15 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] List of Free/Libre Exchange Substitutes http://mybroadband.co.za/news/Software/10053.html | Nov 07 09:16 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Exchange alternatives .::. Size~: 36.3 KB | Nov 07 09:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Sixthsense Interface Turns #FreeSoftware http://ur1.ca/fbca RiverMuse Chooses GPLv3 http://ur1.ca/fbcb | Nov 07 09:22 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Sixthsense interface to go open source- ET Cetera-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times .::. Size~: 43.38 KB | Nov 07 09:22 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Enterprise edition of RiverMuse fault management released - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 31.24 KB | Nov 07 09:22 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Blender Game #Competition 2010 to Start http://bit.ly/38QZoS | Nov 07 09:25 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Free Gamer - open source games: Blender Game Competition 2010 .::. Size~: 124.44 KB | Nov 07 09:25 |
| zer0c00l | Open courseware on blender http://ocw.tufts.edu/Course/57 | Nov 07 09:28 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Lesser Known Features of #OpenOffice .org http://ur1.ca/fbcr http://ur1.ca/fbcs | Nov 07 09:32 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: OpenOffice.org Training, Tips, and Ideas: Conversion examples between OpenOffice.org and Microsoft Office .::. Size~: 37.96 KB | Nov 07 09:32 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla to Release #Thunderbird 3 RC Shortly http://ur1.ca/fbd0 http://ur1.ca/fbd1 The app I use the most | Nov 07 09:33 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Blender Game competition 2010 http://tinyurl.com/ycwlqtr (via @schestowitz) ocw on blender http://tinyurl.com/y9bdj8n (via @sankarshan ) | Nov 07 09:33 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Near-final Thunderbird 3 due next week | Business Tech - CNET News .::. Size~: 94.77 KB | Nov 07 09:33 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Free Gamer - open source games: Blender Game Competition 2010 .::. Size~: 124.44 KB | Nov 07 09:33 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google Releases #FreeSoftware in the Form of JS http://ur1.ca/fbd4 http://ur1.ca/fbd5 http://ur1.ca/fbd6 | Nov 07 09:35 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Google makes key Javascript tools open source, news, Google News, PocketGamer.biz .::. Size~: 30.83 KB | Nov 07 09:35 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Google Releases Core Development Tools as Open Source - Business Center - PC World .::. Size~: 42.35 KB | Nov 07 09:35 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Has Google Become a Good Open Source Citizen? -- Seeking Alpha .::. Size~: 89.49 KB | Nov 07 09:35 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Case of #FreeSoftware in Business Explained in CNN http://ur1.ca/fbd8 | Nov 07 09:36 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Malaysian #Government Moves to #FreeSoftware Rapidly http://www.opensource.org/node/489 | Nov 07 09:37 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Open Source Progress in Malaysia | Open Source Initiative .::. Size~: 9.91 KB | Nov 07 09:37 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Perl #Programming Very Much Alive, Separate Protocol Dies http://ur1.ca/fbdu http://www.links.org/?p=780 | Nov 07 09:46 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Perl far from dead, more popular than you think | Royal Pingdom .::. Size~: 49.54 KB | Nov 07 09:46 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Links » Another Protocol Bites The Dust .::. Size~: 30.98 KB | Nov 07 09:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux and the Importance of an Open Internet http://ur1.ca/fbdy http://ur1.ca/fbdz | Nov 07 09:47 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #AstroTurf Runs #Medicare Policies, #Newsweek Goes to Bed with Oil http://ur1.ca/fbe3 http://ur1.ca/fbe5 | Nov 07 09:48 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Medicare Drug Planners Now Lobbyists, With Billions at Stake - ProPublica .::. Size~: 41.86 KB | Nov 07 09:48 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Newsweek Is Neck Deep in Oil & Conflicts | Center for Media and Democracy .::. Size~: 29.54 KB | Nov 07 09:48 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Misuse of #DMCA for #Censorship http://techdirt.com/articles/20091103/1839446788.shtml | Nov 07 09:49 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Perfect Pitch Accused Of DMCA Abuse To Censor Criticism [Update] | Techdirt .::. Size~: 51.16 KB | Nov 07 09:49 |
| oiaohm | http://freeipa.org Hit v2 alpha and I missed it schestowitz something to keep eye on when goes release. | Nov 07 09:50 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Main Page - Free IPA .::. Size~: 11.12 KB | Nov 07 09:50 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Software Critically Vulnerable Again| http://bit.ly/3MTphk | Nov 07 09:57 | |
| oiaohm | http://dot.kde.org/2009/11/06/matthias-ettrich-receives-german-federal-cross-merit Ok who says working on open source does not have it perks at times. | Nov 07 09:57 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Three critical fixes in store for MS November Patch Tuesday • The Register .::. Size~: 27.92 KB | Nov 07 09:57 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Matthias Ettrich Receives German Federal Cross of Merit | KDE.news .::. Size~: 18.29 KB | Nov 07 09:57 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Danish TV 2 Snubs #GNU #Linux Users http://bit.ly/2POSja | Nov 07 09:58 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ubuntu blogspot: Danish TV 2 Is No Friend Of Linux .::. Size~: 71.14 KB | Nov 07 09:58 |
| oiaohm | http://www.kde.org/announcements/announcement.php I knew KDE had a meaning Just had to find the founding document. | Nov 07 09:59 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: KDE - KDE Project Announced .::. Size~: 25.88 KB | Nov 07 09:59 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft Has Another #OOXML Patent, Insults Competitors http://ur1.ca/fbef http://ur1.ca/fbeg | Nov 07 10:00 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Lies About Openness, Cross Platform, and Sharing http://bit.ly/34z68f | Nov 07 10:01 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: open...: Microsoft's Biological Implants .::. Size~: 96.1 KB | Nov 07 10:01 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: thanks | Nov 07 10:04 |
| zer0c00l | hey oiaohm | Nov 07 10:06 |
| oiaohm | Hi zer0c00l | Nov 07 10:06 |
| *shreddar has quit ("sleep") | Nov 07 10:17 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Writing a followup article to "Nintendo emulation on Linux".....this one's for Sega emulation & Linux..... | Nov 07 10:40 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] If youre on Wave Ive been posting some shots of my modded Kubuntu 9.10 deployment...in the Wave "Ubuntu Linux Screenshots and Discussion" | Nov 07 10:41 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] “Critical” Month for #Microsoft http://ping.fm/xSQbM | Nov 07 10:54 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: “Critical” Month for Microsoft | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 93.85 KB | Nov 07 10:54 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 Incompatibility Issues, Crashes, and More #NPD Lies http://ping.fm/NuBGl | Nov 07 11:21 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Vista 7 Incompatibility Issues, Crashes, and More NPD Lies | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 94.22 KB | Nov 07 11:21 |
| *zer0c00l is now known as zer0c00l|away | Nov 07 11:40 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] http://bit.ly/2qvZFd "Linux owns 32 percent of netbook market". Neat. #fb | Nov 07 11:44 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Linux owns 32 percent of netbook market, says study .::. Size~: 42.51 KB | Nov 07 11:44 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Pretends It Invented Office Suites, Obtains Another #Patent on #OOXML http://ping.fm/Y20ZT | Nov 07 11:45 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Pretends It Invented Office Suites, Obtains Another Patent on OOXML | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 96.15 KB | Nov 07 11:45 |
| oiaohm | You can tell media people don't read the nui group. | Nov 07 11:52 |
| oiaohm | Those air born hand guestures are not a new idea. | Nov 07 11:52 |
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| Eruaran | hello | Nov 07 11:55 |
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| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #AMD having trouble with #TSMC yet #Chartered is TSMC's biggest competitor and #GlobalFoundries owns Chartered http://ur1.ca/fbj0 | Nov 07 12:08 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: AMD graphics chip shortage hitting PC vendors .::. Size~: 137.66 KB | Nov 07 12:08 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] I'd be nice if #Identica / #Statusnet did not have the insane 140 maximum limit | Nov 07 12:13 | |
| schestowitz | hey, Eruaran | Nov 07 12:16 |
| oiaohm | http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/ditch-microsoft--save--269m-says-hungarian-open-source-group-2323 The presure | Nov 07 12:17 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ditch Microsoft, Save £269m Says Hungarian Open Source Group - News - eWeekEurope.co.uk .::. Size~: 25.81 KB | Nov 07 12:17 |
| oiaohm | Longer this down turn lasts the higher the presure on businesses and goverments will get. | Nov 07 12:18 |
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| Eruaran | hi schestowitz | Nov 07 12:30 |
| Eruaran | I have it from Acer that Windows 7 isn't doing much for sales. | Nov 07 12:34 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] About to make 5 min chocolate cake with the kids http://bit.ly/3LDywL This could get messy #fb | Nov 07 12:35 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Chocolate Cake In 5 Minutes! | Dizzy Dee .::. Size~: 597.99 KB | Nov 07 12:35 |
| oiaohm | Do you have a link for it Eruaran | Nov 07 12:38 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: I know | Nov 07 12:45 |
| schestowitz | NPD started lying | Nov 07 12:45 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer admits it fails | Nov 07 12:45 |
| schestowitz | They contradict one another | Nov 07 12:45 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: agreed. Links would be good | Nov 07 12:45 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: or if you have something in writing | Nov 07 12:45 |
| oiaohm | http://lwn.net/Articles/357658/ Point 4 of google wanted features. | Nov 07 12:46 |
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| oiaohm | Now that is a scary idea. | Nov 07 12:46 |
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| Eruaran | I don't have anything in writing at the moment, this is word of mouth at the moment. But this is from contacts at Acer. | Nov 07 12:58 |
| Eruaran | I doubt you will hear any public statements about sales, the 'success' or failure of Windows 7 and the changing state of the industry until after Christmas. | Nov 07 13:01 |
| Eruaran | From Acer that is. | Nov 07 13:01 |
| schestowitz | Acer complained about Vista too | Nov 07 13:02 |
| Eruaran | But what they're telling me is that its flat. | Nov 07 13:02 |
| schestowitz | !google acer ceo vista enitre indutry disappointed | Nov 07 13:02 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Microsoft may be bullish about Vista, but Acer CEO says it's been ... | http://blogs.zdnet.com/Berlind/%3Fp%3D665 | Nov 07 13:02 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - GianfrancoLanci -- Engadget | http://www.engadget.com/tag/GianfrancoLanci/ | Nov 07 13:02 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Acer bets big on Linux | http://digg.com/linux_unix/Acer_bets_big_on_Linux | Nov 07 13:02 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - acer inc. and agence france-presse Resources | BNET | http://resources.bnet.com/topic/acer%2Binc.%2Band%2Bagence%2Bfrance-presse.html | Nov 07 13:02 |
| schestowitz | It was the same with Vista...... | Nov 07 13:02 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: I'll write about it then :-) | Nov 07 13:03 |
| cubezzz | does this mean I can buy an acer laptop? | Nov 07 13:03 |
| cubezzz | with Linux on it :) | Nov 07 13:03 |
| schestowitz | It would be good if I had a name of Acer spokesman, but still... | Nov 07 13:03 |
| schestowitz | They are afraid of Microsoft | Nov 07 13:03 |
| schestowitz | If they say this to the press they lose the Windows discount and go out of business | Nov 07 13:04 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: you can.Depends which country though. | Nov 07 13:04 |
| Eruaran | If Windows 7 remains fairly flat you can expect to see Acer quietly introducing Linux netbooks and notebooks. | Nov 07 13:04 |
| Eruaran | Their public statements may remain somewhat diplomatic, even affirming on Windows 7, but don't be surprised if you see a small number of new offerings appear. Including Android devices. | Nov 07 13:05 |
| oiaohm | Biggest thing missing is decent sized Linux laptops with arm or other highly battery effective things. | Nov 07 13:06 |
| oiaohm | Ie that you can touch type. Battery live is important to someone on the move. Same with the means to type stuff quickly. | Nov 07 13:07 |
| Eruaran | It will happen. | Nov 07 13:09 |
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| Eruaran | Microsoft is trying to hold back the kind of change that is inevitable for a number of reasons. This change undermines their monopoly. They cannot stop it, only delay it for a time. | Nov 07 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Also the other thing that bugs touch typist is lack of sloped keyboard on laptops Eruaran | Nov 07 13:13 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] I want to work at #Google now http://ur1.ca/fblk | Nov 07 13:13 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Queen of Google: "I Do Code All Night!" - Marissa Mayer - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 62.6 KB | Nov 07 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Ie means to feel rows on keyboard as you fingers cross them. | Nov 07 13:13 |
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| sebsebseb | schestowitz: Here I am again, after getting the channel name wrong twice, not sure why I was thinking - | Nov 07 13:15 |
| *cubezzz wonders if there's a boycottmicrosoft.com | Nov 07 13:15 | |
| cubezzz | parked | Nov 07 13:16 |
| sebsebseb | cubezzz: Maybe Microsoft own that domain name | Nov 07 13:16 |
| sebsebseb | ? | Nov 07 13:16 |
| cubezzz | "Neal Sutz" | Nov 07 13:17 |
| oiaohm | http://www.msboycott.com/ << There is this one cubezzz | Nov 07 13:17 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu 9.10 Works Well (and So Does the #Microsoft #Propaganda Machine) http://ping.fm/n0GVK #fud | Nov 07 13:18 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Ubuntu 9.10 Works Well (and So Does the Microsoft Propaganda Machine) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 99.35 KB | Nov 07 13:18 |
| cubezzz | oiaohm, hasn't been updated in ages | Nov 07 13:19 |
| oiaohm | Really freeipa and samba ads coming online soon will be start of war. | Nov 07 13:21 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: can I cite the source as a "computer shop"? | Nov 07 13:22 |
| schestowitz | For re:Acer claim | Nov 07 13:22 |
| oiaohm | You could cite a computer shop for me but kinda not far. We have seen a slow down after the release of vista. | Nov 07 13:22 |
| oiaohm | Opps windows 7 | Nov 07 13:22 |
| oiaohm | Almost a dead stop in sales since. | Nov 07 13:23 |
| oiaohm | Its not fair because local area is having major money problems. | Nov 07 13:23 |
| cubezzz | "Switch to IRIX" :) | Nov 07 13:24 |
| schestowitz | All areas do | Nov 07 13:24 |
| oiaohm | So its not my area only with money drying up schestowitz. | Nov 07 13:25 |
| oiaohm | Set of businesses here shutdown recently and it had a knock on effect. | Nov 07 13:25 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Nov 07 13:27 |
| oiaohm | I still have a felling that MS sales this quater will be a lot of existing charity licence conversions. | Nov 07 13:28 |
| Eruaran | schestowitz, I'm part of a group which is partnered with Acer, our own sales of new systems with Windows 7 bumped up a bit the first week of its release and then tapered off again. In general sales increases are due to a number of factors. Christmas is coming, consumer confidence seems to be returning... Windows 7 at most is bringing about a return to 'normal' sales of Windows systems, nothing exciting, just a relief fr | Nov 07 13:31 |
| Eruaran | The desktop PC market continues to shrink while mobile devices flourish and consumers demand better battery life from notebooks and netbooks. | Nov 07 13:31 |
| Eruaran | In this changing market Microsoft is losing that 'status quo' that it relies upon. | Nov 07 13:32 |
| Eruaran | ARM is in an increasingly strong position. | Nov 07 13:33 |
| Eruaran | (to take advantage of this) | Nov 07 13:33 |
| schestowitz | Exactly. Let me just do a post | Nov 07 13:35 |
| Eruaran | Basically, Microsoft can make the best steam train they've ever made if they want. It doesn't matter. Everyone is moving to automobiles and aeroplanes. | Nov 07 13:36 |
| cubezzz | heh | Nov 07 13:36 |
| Eruaran | It wont be "Linux" systems that people will buy. It will be branded products running on a Linux kernel. Consumers like to be sold brands, and that momentum is now building. Just think "Android". | Nov 07 13:39 |
| Eruaran | Canonical is also on the ball with that one, working hard to make "Ubuntu" a widely recognized brand. | Nov 07 13:40 |
| schestowitz | Yes, they do well in netbooks | Nov 07 13:43 |
| schestowitz | 30% of dell's sales | Nov 07 13:43 |
| schestowitz | Some people here in IRC bought for selves and family | Nov 07 13:43 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Acer Tells Windows Sales Flat Despite #Vista7 http://ping.fm/5p9x6 | Nov 07 13:48 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Computer Shop: Acer Tells Windows Sales Flat Despite Vista 7 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 103.9 KB | Nov 07 13:48 |
| *zer0c00l is now known as zer0c00l|Away | Nov 07 13:50 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Boycott Novell now has 8,000 Posts http://ping.fm/C0yuV How proud I am :-) | Nov 07 13:53 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: 8,000 Posts | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 89.04 KB | Nov 07 13:53 |
| _goblin | Eruaran: Sorry to respond late to you (and Im off out again) but wanted to say that your comments were very interesting and I think a quite accurate picture of the future. I agree totally with your branded products comments......hope youre on this channel later. | Nov 07 14:03 |
| oiaohm | Eruaran: part of the problem is a few missing frameworks as well. | Nov 07 14:04 |
| oiaohm | Like freeipa to a level to network manage Linux clients very much like Windows clients connecting to a ADS. | Nov 07 14:05 |
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| oiaohm | Eruaran: Linux has always been the invistable OS. | Nov 07 14:10 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Chromium 4.0.239.0 - and still thinking its great! | Nov 07 14:23 | |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: "invisible magician" -- Linus | Nov 07 14:33 |
| schestowitz | Novell Unveils Real-Time Collaboration Platform for the Enterprise and Demonstrates Google Wave Interoperability | Nov 07 14:34 |
| schestowitz | http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/200911041148PR_NEWS_USPR_____AQ05184.htm | Nov 07 14:34 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Novell Unveils Real-Time Collaboration Platform for the Enterprise and Demonstrates Google Wave Interoperability .::. Size~: 41.76 KB | Nov 07 14:34 |
| schestowitz | Weird... Google tie | Nov 07 14:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | invisiwhat magichiwho now? | Nov 07 14:34 |
| schestowitz | !google linux invisible magician | Nov 07 14:35 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Linux kernel is an invisible magician: Torvalds - Videos - Builder AU | http://www.builderau.com.au/video/soa/Linux-kernel-is-an-invisible-magician-Torvalds/0,2000064338,22440600p,00.htm | Nov 07 14:35 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Linux kernel an 'invisible magician', says Torvalds - ZDNet.co.uk | http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39292790,00.htm | Nov 07 14:35 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Linux kernel is an invisible magician: Torvalds - News - Software ... | http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Linux-kernel-is-an-invisible-magician-Torvalds/0,130061733,339285746,00.htm | Nov 07 14:35 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - linux search results in All sorted by relevence - page 19 - at ... | http://www.zdnet.co.uk/search/index.htm%3Fq%3Dlinux%26ss%3Drelv%26p%3D19 | Nov 07 14:35 |
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| oiaohm | https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=212840 schestowitz most people don't know that wave support is on the KDE todo list. | Nov 07 14:51 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Bug 212840 – Add support for Google's WAVE .::. Size~: 24.07 KB | Nov 07 14:51 |
| schestowitz | Luc is till active... | Nov 07 14:59 |
| schestowitz | http://libv.livejournal.com/20172.html | Nov 07 14:59 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: libv: Hardware MPEG2 Slice decoding added to unichrome driver. .::. Size~: 26.13 KB | Nov 07 14:59 |
| schestowitz | Novell laid him off those bastards. They punish some Linux developers too | Nov 07 14:59 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: Did anyone pick him up schestowitz | Nov 07 15:04 |
| schestowitz | Nice photo: http://nat.org/blog/2009/11/idea-book-recommender/ | Nov 07 15:04 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Idea: Book recommender · Nat Friedman .::. Size~: 37.21 KB | Nov 07 15:04 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I'd probably know if that was the case | Nov 07 15:04 |
| schestowitz | Michael is in touch with him | Nov 07 15:05 |
| oiaohm | I am supprised with his track record vmware was not interested. schestowitz | Nov 07 15:06 |
| oiaohm | Because I have not seen him picked up there. | Nov 07 15:07 |
| schestowitz | See his latest blog posts | Nov 07 15:08 |
| schestowitz | Maybe I missed s/t | Nov 07 15:08 |
| schestowitz | http://www.cannon-linux.co.uk/blogs/general-stuff/68-howls-in-the-dark/272-what-was-in-my-tea | Nov 07 15:09 |
| oiaohm | That person does not know how to read dreams. | Nov 07 15:14 |
| oiaohm | It a prity straight forward dream. Travel growth of Ubuntu. Not really a night mare as such. | Nov 07 15:15 |
| oiaohm | At least it was less painful than my dreams of getting burt by dragons when I am trying to solve a secuirty problem. | Nov 07 15:17 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: did you hear from people about 9.10? | Nov 07 15:20 |
| schestowitz | heh. http://finance.google.com/group/google.finance.358464/browse_thread/thread/81952bf204029713/a95ecfa1aeac50ad | Nov 07 15:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | to be fair | Nov 07 15:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | I imagine sales will start to go up | Nov 07 15:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | when sp1 ships | Nov 07 15:25 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: historically there has always been a spike from the ones who want to be first. | Nov 07 15:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | those people already were first though | Nov 07 15:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | they'll be a spike when the betas expire | Nov 07 15:26 |
| oiaohm | They have. | Nov 07 15:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | since the first people have to actually go buy it now | Nov 07 15:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | er oh | Nov 07 15:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | welp, microsofts doomed | Nov 07 15:27 |
| oiaohm | They expired exactly 1 day before release. | Nov 07 15:27 |
| oiaohm | So basically where is the spike. | Nov 07 15:28 |
| oiaohm | I know a few that have been forced up onto vista due to the fact there old hardware no longer runs games correctly due to poor ati drivers. | Nov 07 15:30 |
| oiaohm | Under Xp | Nov 07 15:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | but ati drivers work fine under xp | Nov 07 15:31 |
| oiaohm | Yep windows update caused Diablo-D3 | Nov 07 15:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont let windows update upgrade third party drivers that didnt come with windows | Nov 07 15:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | it usually breaks shit | Nov 07 15:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | microsoft eventually fixed that I think | Nov 07 15:32 |
| oiaohm | Particularly just after they released a new OS. | Nov 07 15:32 |
| oiaohm | It is always nuts kicking season. | Nov 07 15:32 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: there has been interest. | Nov 07 15:35 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!!FUCK!! | Nov 07 16:16 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] I always knew you were too much for me.... | Nov 07 16:18 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] I had a feeling this was going to happen soon, but I would just ignore it... | Nov 07 16:20 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] nunca tenho sorte... | Nov 07 16:21 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] e por este andar nunca vou ter... já perdi o momentum todo... | Nov 07 16:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] e agora | Nov 07 16:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] tou fudido e voltei a cepa torta | Nov 07 16:22 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Mas porque eu? Tenho sorte em tanta coisa, mas nunca do lado amoroso... | Nov 07 16:30 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Black & White | Nov 07 16:31 | |
| oiaohm | http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1533&tag=content;wrapper This is the first time I have seen this stuff being advertised on a news site of any form. | Nov 07 16:31 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Okaaay... agora estou mesmo confuso | Nov 07 16:35 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] bah, nothing new here, carry on... my heart has just been fixed (L) -> See? | Nov 07 16:41 | |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: Bott is Microsoft mouth | Nov 07 16:44 |
| schestowitz | de facto | Nov 07 16:44 |
| schestowitz | So I'd assume that they have no problem w/ it, maybe even encourage this to brag about #s | Nov 07 16:44 |
| schestowitz | Never mind profit | Nov 07 16:44 |
| oiaohm | MS normally does not adverists these cheap ways of software. | Nov 07 16:44 |
| oiaohm | Its very much like sale numbers are really bad. | Nov 07 16:44 |
| MinceR | strange way of admitting that winblows nt 6.1 is horribly overpriced and nobody wants it :> | Nov 07 16:45 |
| schestowitz | What the heck is this? http://www.sxc.hu/photo/959174 | Nov 07 16:48 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: stock.xchng - hippozard (stock illustration by ronnibobs) .::. Size~: 22.36 KB | Nov 07 16:48 |
| schestowitz | No article about it in Wikipedia | Nov 07 16:48 |
| oiaohm | The thing that really threw me was on the charity stuff MinceR. We got a letter selling 12 dollar updates to inventory to get Windows 7. Then went to eopen and checked and all the licences we had were upgraded to support windows 7 for nothing. | Nov 07 16:48 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: it's like counterfeiting. It wants people to take the most expensive route they can tolerate | Nov 07 16:48 |
| schestowitz | Airlines do the same | Nov 07 16:49 |
| schestowitz | As long as they don't turn to competitors.. see EDGO | Nov 07 16:49 |
| schestowitz | *EDGI | Nov 07 16:49 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: you mean throwing their crap at random organizations and then claiming it's "charity" and deducting it from their taxes? | Nov 07 16:49 |
| oiaohm | LOL. | Nov 07 16:49 |
| oiaohm | They charge the charity normally like 22 dollars a seat for licences MinceR | Nov 07 16:50 |
| MinceR | oh, that's the best part, when it isn't even gratis | Nov 07 16:50 |
| oiaohm | Then do a donation for the rest from RRP for the Tax Man MinceR | Nov 07 16:50 |
| oiaohm | Yet the chartity does not get to see any of that money. | Nov 07 16:51 |
| oiaohm | Its the a true rip off MinceR | Nov 07 16:51 |
| oiaohm | It was odd this time around with the auto upgrade MinceR. | Nov 07 16:52 |
| oiaohm | I really think the 22 a seat would be a fair price. | Nov 07 16:53 |
| MinceR | i don't think there's a fair price for m$ products over 0. | Nov 07 16:55 |
| MinceR | even 0 may be a stretch, considering the costs they incur by forcing people to use their shitty platform. | Nov 07 16:55 |
| oiaohm | Price of disk and shipping MinceR | Nov 07 16:55 |
| oiaohm | Comes to about 15 dollars in a lot of cases with handling. | Nov 07 16:55 |
| MinceR | they should swallow those costs if they expect anyone to use their crap. | Nov 07 16:55 |
| MinceR | or just let people download it. | Nov 07 16:56 |
| oiaohm | And 7 dollars to bribe the sales person to bite there toung. | Nov 07 16:56 |
| MinceR | strangely enough, Canonical manages to ship stuff that doesn't suck nearly so much, gratis. | Nov 07 16:56 |
| oiaohm | Canonical has funding to do that MinceR. | Nov 07 16:57 |
| MinceR | so does m$ | Nov 07 16:57 |
| MinceR | they've stolen enough money to fund such a thing for a few decades. | Nov 07 16:57 |
| oiaohm | At the rate MS wastes money. | Nov 07 16:57 |
| oiaohm | They might not have a few decades | Nov 07 16:58 |
| MinceR | they could at least let others stop wasting it | Nov 07 16:58 |
| oiaohm | http://www.withinwindows.com/2009/11/06/microsoft-lifts-gpl-code-uses-in-microsoft-store-tool/ This could get interesting. | Nov 07 17:02 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft lifts GPL code, uses in Microsoft Store tool | Within Windows .::. Size~: 32.92 KB | Nov 07 17:02 |
| MinceR | i hope m$ gets sued for this | Nov 07 17:04 |
| MinceR | though it's unlikely that they'll be punished in a way they can feel | Nov 07 17:05 |
| oiaohm | If it turns out to be a breach it would be a BSD class event. | Nov 07 17:05 |
| oiaohm | If coder chooses can be payed in code and patent rights MinceR | Nov 07 17:06 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenSUSE 11.2 Days Away, Events Organised, New Board Needed http://ping.fm/yHW1W | Nov 07 17:08 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Novell News Summary Part I: OpenSUSE 11.2 Days Away, Events Organised, New Board Needed | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 101.59 KB | Nov 07 17:08 |
| _Hicham_ | hi schestowitz | Nov 07 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Hey! | Nov 07 17:09 |
| _Hicham_ | do u plan to attend openSUSE 11.2 day ? | Nov 07 17:09 |
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| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] No internet from 12 am. to 4 am; BSNL server maintenance/upgrade today in south TN ; x( | Nov 07 17:23 | |
| zer0c00l | trmanco: something fucked up? | Nov 07 17:25 |
| trmanco | not really | Nov 07 17:25 |
| trmanco | LOL | Nov 07 17:25 |
| trmanco | it was a joke | Nov 07 17:25 |
| zer0c00l | trmanco: http://identi.ca/notice/14039118 | Nov 07 17:25 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Tony Manco (trmanco) 's status on Saturday, 07-Nov-09 16:12:07 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 7.38 KB | Nov 07 17:26 |
| zer0c00l | trmanco: ok :) | Nov 07 17:26 |
| trmanco | yeah | Nov 07 17:26 |
| trmanco | a joke :S | Nov 07 17:26 |
| trmanco | LOL | Nov 07 17:26 |
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| lordtoran | more "worldwide" statistics from net applications | Nov 07 17:47 |
| lordtoran | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/11/october-2009-os-stats-windows-7-passes-snow-leopard-linux-1.ars | Nov 07 17:47 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: October 2009 OS stats: Windows 7 passes Snow Leopard, Linux - Ars Technica .::. Size~: 42.75 KB | Nov 07 17:47 |
| lordtoran | looks like US statistics to me | Nov 07 17:48 |
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| *ender2070_ is now known as ackilles | Nov 07 17:57 | |
| ackilles | hi | Nov 07 17:58 |
| ackilles | msft stole gpl code | Nov 07 17:59 |
| ackilles | again | Nov 07 17:59 |
| ackilles | http://www.pwnage.ca/?p=291 | Nov 07 17:59 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Pwnage.ca » Microsoft steals code via Anti-trust style plot .::. Size~: 17.43 KB | Nov 07 17:59 |
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| lordtoran | http://dot.kde.org/2009/11/06/matthias-ettrich-receives-german-federal-cross-merit | Nov 07 18:09 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Matthias Ettrich Receives German Federal Cross of Merit | KDE.news .::. Size~: 23.3 KB | Nov 07 18:09 |
| lordtoran | kde founder gets highest decoration here in germany :-) | Nov 07 18:10 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Hora de tomar um bom banho... | Nov 07 18:16 | |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Darwin? Chutzpah? Stupidly brilliant in its way http://bit.ly/2Eeg2V HT @arkadyrose | Nov 07 18:30 | |
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| schestowitz | lordtoran: yes, US mostly, but worse... | Nov 07 18:35 |
| schestowitz | I wrote many posts about it | Nov 07 18:35 |
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| ender2070_ | lol roy, our mutual "friend" has your picture on his trash site | Nov 07 18:44 |
| ender2070_ | Godwin 2.0 | Nov 07 18:44 |
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| ender2070_ | btw, adamw in #fedora-devel had an ammendment to Godwin's law: As a gnome discussion grows, the chances of mono brought up approaches 1 | Nov 07 18:45 |
| MinceR | which makes mono the hitler of gnome | Nov 07 18:46 |
| MinceR | how appropriate. | Nov 07 18:46 |
| ender2070_ | LOL | Nov 07 18:47 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[trmanco] Back! | Nov 07 18:47 | |
| _Hicham_ | it is not that big in gnome | Nov 07 18:47 |
| _Hicham_ | really | Nov 07 18:47 |
| _Hicham_ | which apps depends on mono ? | Nov 07 18:47 |
| ender2070_ | f-spot, banshee and that other one | Nov 07 18:47 |
| _Hicham_ | f-spot, and tomboy | Nov 07 18:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Hi all, anyone notice that M$ is moving a little more into the computer hardware bus? http://gizmodo.com/5365299/courier-first-details-of-microsofts-secret-tablet | Nov 07 18:47 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Courier: First Details of Microsoft's Secret Tablet - Microsoft courier tablet - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 69.38 KB | Nov 07 18:47 |
| _Hicham_ | just two | Nov 07 18:48 |
| ender2070_ | banshee | Nov 07 18:48 |
| _Hicham_ | banshee is hosted within gnome ? | Nov 07 18:48 |
| ender2070_ | it will be | Nov 07 18:48 |
| MinceR | gnome do | Nov 07 18:48 |
| _Hicham_ | is it in ftp.gnome.org ? | Nov 07 18:48 |
| ender2070_ | novell owns gnome, iirc | Nov 07 18:48 |
| _Hicham_ | i am talking about the official gnome apps | Nov 07 18:48 |
| _Hicham_ | no, RedHat is hostin gnome | Nov 07 18:48 |
| _Hicham_ | to be clear | Nov 07 18:48 |
| ender2070_ | hosting | Nov 07 18:48 |
| ender2070_ | i host all kinds of sites, doesnt mean i own them | Nov 07 18:49 |
| _Hicham_ | RedHat is providing the necessary infrastructure | Nov 07 18:49 |
| lordtoran | Chips_B_Malroy: i think MS knows the future is embedded, so they won't be able to charge extra for an OS | Nov 07 18:49 |
| ender2070_ | novell owns the people who run gnome | Nov 07 18:49 |
| _Hicham_ | no, RedHat contributes more to gnome than Novell | Nov 07 18:49 |
| _Hicham_ | no, they don't | Nov 07 18:49 |
| ender2070_ | they dont own Miguel? | Nov 07 18:49 |
| _Hicham_ | an apps must meat some criteria to be included in gnome | Nov 07 18:50 |
| _Hicham_ | Miguel is from Novell | Nov 07 18:50 |
| ender2070_ | Miguel invented gnome, its his pet | Nov 07 18:50 |
| _Hicham_ | though he is the one to start gnome project, doesn't mean he own it | Nov 07 18:50 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not his pet | Nov 07 18:50 |
| _Hicham_ | he just started it | Nov 07 18:50 |
| _Hicham_ | a lot of people have helped | Nov 07 18:50 |
| _Hicham_ | without that help, gnome wouldn't have seen daylight | Nov 07 18:51 |
| ender2070_ | yeah | Nov 07 18:51 |
| ender2070_ | i still think he has some say in decisions | Nov 07 18:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | lordtoran> MS can only make money selling computer hardware "IF" it adopts the same model as Apple. EFI chips | Nov 07 18:51 |
| ender2070_ | for instance, he wants gnome 4 written in C# | Nov 07 18:51 |
| _Hicham_ | if he is that interested in gnome, why doesn't he host gnome on Novell, and let RedHat do it ? | Nov 07 18:51 |
| ender2070_ | how can he force that | Nov 07 18:51 |
| ender2070_ | if hes not in control | Nov 07 18:51 |
| _Hicham_ | he is just talking | Nov 07 18:52 |
| _Hicham_ | RedHat won't agree | Nov 07 18:52 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: because this way Red Hat pays the bills | Nov 07 18:52 |
| MinceR | and they're willing to do so | Nov 07 18:52 |
| ender2070_ | i would agree with mincer | Nov 07 18:52 |
| ender2070_ | i was about to say that | Nov 07 18:52 |
| ender2070_ | as long as miguel does things covertly redhat will probably keep doing so | Nov 07 18:52 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : how hosting gnome will help them pay the bills ? | Nov 07 18:52 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: Red Hat pays the costs that hosting gnome incurs, not Novell | Nov 07 18:53 |
| lordtoran | Chips_B_Malroy: I see them mostly rebranding stuff built by someone else | Nov 07 18:53 |
| MinceR | why would novell or miguel want to change this as long as they can control gnome as much as before? | Nov 07 18:53 |
| lordtoran | the zune was a toshiba player, their keyboards and mice are logitech IIRC | Nov 07 18:53 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : i know, and RedHat is against using Mono | Nov 07 18:53 |
| MinceR | afaik their keyboards and mice are their own | Nov 07 18:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | lordtoran> agreed that someone else makes the hardware for them mostly | Nov 07 18:54 |
| lordtoran | they o9nly wrote the software for the zune | Nov 07 18:54 |
| MinceR | they certainly seem to suck more than any logitech product would | Nov 07 18:54 |
| lordtoran | *only | Nov 07 18:54 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : they are not controlling it | Nov 07 18:54 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : and gnome will be always C-based | Nov 07 18:54 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: how do you know that? | Nov 07 18:55 |
| ender2070_ | _Hicham_ - we dont know this to be 100% | Nov 07 18:55 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I had an MS Intellimouse, it was a great mouse, but like all things MS, in 2 and 1/2 years the left mouse switch went bad | Nov 07 18:55 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : because I always talk about that with RedHat devs who are working on GNOME | Nov 07 18:55 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : I know the vision from official devs | Nov 07 18:56 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : and not based on some speculations | Nov 07 18:56 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : if RedHat was interested in Mono, they would have started coding in it | Nov 07 18:56 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : take the Java's example | Nov 07 18:56 |
| lordtoran | i use mice from A4Tech, these are also logitech clones, but sometimes more durable than the original | Nov 07 18:57 |
| MinceR | i used to use a4tech mice but then i got a desk they couldn't cope with | Nov 07 18:57 |
| MinceR | so i switched to logitech | Nov 07 18:57 |
| lordtoran | anyway, 2.5 years for a mouse is not that bad | Nov 07 18:57 |
| MinceR | logitech's optical tech is superior | Nov 07 18:57 |
| _Hicham_ | Mince : Before starting to write JBoss, they created the IcedTea project, to provide a 100% FOSS Java JDK | Nov 07 18:57 |
| ender2070_ | _Hicham_ - i think that Redhat will keep doing so until mono is more intrenched | Nov 07 18:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | even the mouse that you get from dollar store lasts longer than the M$ Intellimouse | Nov 07 18:57 |
| _Hicham_ | ender2070_ : they will never make Mono a dependency | Nov 07 18:58 |
| MinceR | i've checked m$'s keyboards at a store -- each one was broken in a different way :) | Nov 07 18:58 |
| _Hicham_ | ender2070_ : simply because they don't trust it | Nov 07 18:58 |
| ender2070_ | _Hicham_ - in fedora 11 (non-live-cd) it installs mono | Nov 07 18:58 |
| ender2070_ | if you chose everything | Nov 07 18:58 |
| _Hicham_ | ender2070_ : Fedora is one things and RHEL is another thing | Nov 07 18:59 |
| lordtoran | i would never buy anything from MS, even hardware, so i cannot talk from experience ;-) | Nov 07 18:59 |
| _Hicham_ | ender2070_ : plus Rahul Sundaram is really worried about Mono intrusion | Nov 07 18:59 |
| _Hicham_ | ender2070_ : he is the maintainer of Gnote | Nov 07 18:59 |
| schestowitz | [18:44] <ender2070_> lol roy, our mutual "friend" has your picture on his trash site | Nov 07 18:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | The MS Intellimouse was a Xmas gift, obviously I do not buy MS products anymore | Nov 07 18:59 |
| schestowitz | I don't touch that trash site | Nov 07 18:59 |
| lordtoran | the shops here in germany mostly are half logitech, half MS, and one meter of no name mice | Nov 07 18:59 |
| schestowitz | Unless s/t is clicked accidentally | Nov 07 18:59 |
| ender2070_ | _Hicham_ - i understand, i know redhat's worries | Nov 07 18:59 |
| _Hicham_ | ender2070_ : and he is the one who pushed it in F12 | Nov 07 18:59 |
| ender2070_ | _Hicham_ - gnote and gthumb are in F11's livecd | Nov 07 19:00 |
| schestowitz | [18:45] <ender2070_> btw, adamw in #fedora-devel had an ammendment to Godwin's law: As a gnome discussion grows, the chances of mono brought up approaches 1 | Nov 07 19:00 |
| schestowitz | *LMAO* | Nov 07 19:00 |
| ender2070_ | hehe | Nov 07 19:00 |
| schestowitz | [18:47] <Chips_B_Malroy> Hi all, anyone notice that M$ is moving a little more into the computer hardware bus? http://gizmodo.com/5365299/courier-first-details-of-microsofts-secret-tablet | Nov 07 19:00 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Courier: First Details of Microsoft's Secret Tablet - Microsoft courier tablet - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 69.38 KB | Nov 07 19:00 |
| schestowitz | Wow. So they wanna run out of cash even faster with ZunePC? | Nov 07 19:01 |
| schestowitz | [18:48] <ender2070_> novell owns gnome, iirc | Nov 07 19:01 |
| ender2070_ | _Hicham_ - I don't think Redhat has much say other than keeping everything modular so they dont have to package the mono stuff | Nov 07 19:01 |
| schestowitz | I have a post on that coming | Nov 07 19:01 |
| _Hicham_ | ender2070_ : Fedora is mainly using either C or Python for developing apps | Nov 07 19:01 |
| schestowitz | They make GNOME 3.0 more MOno-dependent | Nov 07 19:01 |
| schestowitz | I found some SUSE post about it todauy | Nov 07 19:01 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : how ? | Nov 07 19:01 |
| schestowitz | Nevertheless, OpenSUSE turned to KDE4 | Nov 07 19:01 |
| schestowitz | So benefit of the doubt here... not that I trust Canonical re Mono... Red hat can be trusted | Nov 07 19:02 |
| ender2070_ | opensuse will be interesting to try out | Nov 07 19:02 |
| lordtoran | well, desktops are no growth market anymore, so they have to enter already saturated markets with their "ideas" | Nov 07 19:02 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : gnome doesn't depend on Mono | Nov 07 19:02 |
| lordtoran | that's funny to look at | Nov 07 19:02 |
| _Hicham_ | and it will never be | Nov 07 19:02 |
| ender2070_ | _Hicham_ gnome *core* might not depend on mono, but they are replacing all the default apps | Nov 07 19:02 |
| schestowitz | [18:53] <lordtoran> Chips_B_Malroy: I see them mostly rebranding stuff built by someone else | Nov 07 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Zune =Toshiba PDA | Nov 07 19:03 |
| _Hicham_ | ender2070_ : what default apps ? | Nov 07 19:03 |
| ender2070_ | _Hicham_ - banshee is a new one | Nov 07 19:03 |
| lordtoran | schestowitz, yep, I had that from BN | Nov 07 19:03 |
| ender2070_ | _Hicham_ - just watch, it will become a default | Nov 07 19:03 |
| _Hicham_ | ender2070_ : the default, I don't think so, it depends on distributions | Nov 07 19:04 |
| ender2070_ | schestowitz - i do believe redhat can be trusted, some of the kde team are aware of the mono issues too | Nov 07 19:04 |
| _Hicham_ | ender2070_ : look at epiphany, it was never the default browser in any distro | Nov 07 19:04 |
| ender2070_ | _Hicham_ - somewhat, the distros that care will filter the default gnome apps | Nov 07 19:04 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: I will post about Monome soon | Nov 07 19:04 |
| schestowitz | I need to organise the evidence | Nov 07 19:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Their (MS) "ideas" have always been to copy someone elses ideas. It used to be they stole from IBM OS/2, including the new voice dictation in Vista, which was put into Warp 4 in 1998. That was about the last thing MS could "innovate" from OS/2. So now the "ideas" must come from Linux and Apple. | Nov 07 19:05 |
| _Hicham_ | ender2070_ : even though the official browser at gnome | Nov 07 19:05 |
| ender2070_ | _Hicham_ - exactly, i still think banshee will be a default but most probably wont include it | Nov 07 19:05 |
| schestowitz | Bashee uses stuff that Microsoft explicitly labels a patent issue | Nov 07 19:05 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : gnome-core will remain pure gtk, so I am not worried | Nov 07 19:05 |
| schestowitz | Unless you're a Novell customer... only till Jan. 2012 | Nov 07 19:05 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: | Nov 07 19:06 |
| schestowitz | http://blog.reblochon.org/2009/05/announcing-gio-and-gtkbeans.html | Nov 07 19:06 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Stephane's log: Announcing Gio# and Gtk#Beans .::. Size~: 76.08 KB | Nov 07 19:06 |
| ender2070_ | _Hicham_ - personally though i've already written off gnome, KDE4 is amazing | Nov 07 19:06 |
| schestowitz | http://blog.reblochon.org/2009/10/mono-ifying-gnome3-one-dependency-at.html | Nov 07 19:06 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Stephane's log: Mono-ifying Gnome3, one dependency at a time .::. Size~: 77.26 KB | Nov 07 19:06 |
| schestowitz | From Planet SUSE | Nov 07 19:06 |
| _Hicham_ | I am a Novell customer | Nov 07 19:06 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MS likes Mono related programs to use stuff that is a future patent issue | Nov 07 19:06 |
| lordtoran | matthias ettrich receiving the german federal cross of merit for KDE might be newsworthy for BN too :-) | Nov 07 19:06 |
| *MinceR feels sorry for _Hicham_ | Nov 07 19:06 | |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : why do u feel sorry for me ? | Nov 07 19:07 |
| schestowitz | lordtoran: yes, but what info can we add? Is there a video? | Nov 07 19:07 |
| MinceR | because you're a novell customer | Nov 07 19:07 |
| MinceR | which makes you a victim | Nov 07 19:07 |
| ender2070_ | _Hicham_ - instead of complaining all the time im going to promote KDE/QT as a superior alternative to Gnome/GTK# | Nov 07 19:07 |
| lordtoran | i'll look | Nov 07 19:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070_: so.... | Nov 07 19:07 |
| *lordtoran researches | Nov 07 19:07 | |
| MinceR | well, if what oiaohm said earlier is true, then KDE is doomed as well | Nov 07 19:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | you're going to promote fucking shit as an alternative to fucking shit? | Nov 07 19:07 |
| ender2070_ | why is KDE doomed? | Nov 07 19:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | dumbass. | Nov 07 19:07 |
| ender2070_ | Diablo-D3 - KDE > gnome | Nov 07 19:08 |
| _Hicham_ | GTK# is just a binding, gnome will NEVER used it for the core apps | Nov 07 19:08 |
| schestowitz | KDE is fantastic | Nov 07 19:08 |
| schestowitz | Diablo-D3 spouts FUD about it | Nov 07 19:08 |
| ender2070_ | ahhhhhh | Nov 07 19:08 |
| MinceR | because it already doesn't play quite nice with other desktop components (window managers, desktop managers, panels, etc.) | Nov 07 19:08 |
| MinceR | oiaohm said they're going to merge kwin with plasma, which is even worse | Nov 07 19:08 |
| ender2070_ | LOL | Nov 07 19:08 |
| ender2070_ | nah | Nov 07 19:09 |
| MinceR | there already are plasma-based systray applets, which means that if you're using a non-kde systray, those icons won't appear | Nov 07 19:09 |
| ender2070_ | only if you dont like kde already | Nov 07 19:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | FUD? | Nov 07 19:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | dude | Nov 07 19:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | its unsuable, bloated, slow shit | Nov 07 19:09 |
| _Hicham_ | Linux is going toward a monolithic desktop | Nov 07 19:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | dont forget, I test it periodically | Nov 07 19:09 |
| _Hicham_ | that is the same for GNOME | Nov 07 19:09 |
| ender2070_ | Diablo-D3 - I don't have a PC slower than a core2 | Nov 07 19:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | ender2070_: neither do I | Nov 07 19:09 |
| MinceR | it's quite functional currently, but i don't like the way it's built | Nov 07 19:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | in fact, my machines probably beefier than yours | Nov 07 19:09 |
| _Hicham_ | we will have more integration, instead of loosely coupled components | Nov 07 19:09 |
| ender2070_ | gnome feels way more sluggish | Nov 07 19:09 |
| MinceR | btw, KDE4.3 works fine on my atom-based netbook | Nov 07 19:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | gnome is extremely fast | Nov 07 19:09 |
| MinceR | even with compositing | Nov 07 19:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | but if it starts going c#, Ill just make my own fucking desktop | Nov 07 19:10 |
| ender2070_ | KDE even has - configuration options | Nov 07 19:10 |
| MinceR | the only thing that doesn't work so well is the crossfade plasma does when switching wallpapers | Nov 07 19:10 |
| MinceR | so i switched it to a single background | Nov 07 19:10 |
| MinceR | gnome has configuration options too, they're only hidden in gconf-editor. | Nov 07 19:10 |
| _Hicham_ | I know about future gnome vision, and it is just fantastic | Nov 07 19:10 |
| ender2070_ | Diablo-D3 - theres always xfce | Nov 07 19:10 |
| MinceR | xfce is just gnome light | Nov 07 19:10 |
| _Hicham_ | Linux should have gnome that way since a long time ago | Nov 07 19:11 |
| _Hicham_ | s/gnome/gone | Nov 07 19:11 |
| ender2070_ | MinceR- gconf-editor is as user friendly as regedit | Nov 07 19:11 |
| Eruaran | 'hidden' configuration options is not useful to end users | Nov 07 19:11 |
| MinceR | ender2070_: not really | Nov 07 19:11 |
| MinceR | ender2070_: it has a reasonable structure | Nov 07 19:11 |
| MinceR | no grappling with UUIDs | Nov 07 19:11 |
| ender2070_ | its still a maze | Nov 07 19:11 |
| MinceR | and mysteriously named nodes like HKEY_CURRENT_USER | Nov 07 19:11 |
| ender2070_ | whats wrong with a settings window in the app im using | Nov 07 19:11 |
| MinceR | there's nothing wrong with it | Nov 07 19:11 |
| _Hicham_ | gconf-editor is fairly evident | Nov 07 19:11 |
| _Hicham_ | and self-explanatory | Nov 07 19:11 |
| ender2070_ | like every other app | Nov 07 19:11 |
| MinceR | but sadly the gnome guys have adopted the crApple approach to usability | Nov 07 19:11 |
| Eruaran | not if users can't find it | Nov 07 19:12 |
| ender2070_ | gconf-editor isnt hard, but its the wrong approach | Nov 07 19:12 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @stellacreasy Oh god- just heard Slade being played for the first time this year. It's only just November! | Nov 07 19:12 | |
| MinceR | at least gconf still uses text files, unlike registry | Nov 07 19:12 |
| lordtoran | schestowitz: it doesn't play for me because i use gnash, but this seems to be a video or podcast about the ceremony | Nov 07 19:12 |
| ender2070_ | im not a believer in dumbing things down | Nov 07 19:12 |
| lordtoran | http://odeo.com/episodes/25415082-KDE-Founder-Receives-Highest-German-Honor | Nov 07 19:12 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: KDE Founder Receives Highest German Honor | Odeo: Search, Discover and Share Digital Media from Millions of Audio and Video Clips .::. Size~: 43.02 KB | Nov 07 19:13 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : what is new about libunique-sharp ? | Nov 07 19:13 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : there are binding for everything | Nov 07 19:14 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : even KDE has C# bindings | Nov 07 19:14 |
| lordtoran | ah no, it's just an audio version of the slashdot article | Nov 07 19:15 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : I am sorry, but saying that gnome is gonna be mono-fied by writing C# bindings for it is just misinformation and FUD | Nov 07 19:15 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : we need more rationalism where seeing news | Nov 07 19:15 |
| Eruaran | C# is just a patent trap | Nov 07 19:16 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Novell News Summary: #Pulse , #SCO , Los Angeles and More http://bit.ly/3bqWrm | Nov 07 19:17 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Novell News Summary Part III: Pulse, SCO, Los Angeles and More | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 116.73 KB | Nov 07 19:17 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : be more diplomatic plz when talking about gnome's future | Nov 07 19:17 |
| *schestowitz catches up with irc | Nov 07 19:18 | |
| Eruaran | gnome doesn't have a future if it is not rescued from Novell's employee's | Nov 07 19:18 |
| schestowitz | [19:14] <_Hicham_> schestowitz : even KDE has C# bindings | Nov 07 19:19 |
| schestowitz | I don't think anything uses them | Nov 07 19:19 |
| Eruaran | With Novell's trajectory I'd expect to see a forked gnome within two years | Nov 07 19:19 |
| schestowitz | yes, Richard Dale and another Nordic guy wrote the bindings | Nov 07 19:19 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : wait and see | Nov 07 19:19 |
| schestowitz | I don't know of any C# Qt project | Nov 07 19:19 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : once Novell will finish all gnome bindings, they will start with KDE | Nov 07 19:20 |
| schestowitz | lordtoran: it's audio | Nov 07 19:20 |
| schestowitz | It requires enablign JS to play | Nov 07 19:20 |
| schestowitz | And it's bot-read | Nov 07 19:20 |
| lordtoran | yep, it's just an audio version of the slashdot article | Nov 07 19:20 |
| lordtoran | i found no video | Nov 07 19:20 |
| schestowitz | Let's see what GooTube has | Nov 07 19:20 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : and Novell devs will write some Qt# apps | Nov 07 19:21 |
| *ender2070_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Nov 07 19:21 | |
| lordtoran | maybe there is more content online tomorrow | Nov 07 19:21 |
| lordtoran | as for now, i only found links to the dotkde article | Nov 07 19:21 |
| schestowitz | I got the audio in ogg | Nov 07 19:22 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : if Novell was planning to make Gnome dependent on Mono, they would have started it in openSUSE | Nov 07 19:22 |
| Eruaran | C# is a patent risk | Nov 07 19:22 |
| Eruaran | Ask your lawyer | Nov 07 19:22 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Matthias+Ettrich&search_type=&aq=f | Nov 07 19:23 |
| schestowitz | Obscure rather.... | Nov 07 19:23 |
| _Hicham_ | I am just trying to show that KDE isn't mono free, as some people points out | Nov 07 19:23 |
| _Hicham_ | this is just FUD | Nov 07 19:23 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: they seem to have moved a little back to KDE (the German staff) | Nov 07 19:23 |
| _Hicham_ | http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Languages/QtSharp | Nov 07 19:23 |
| _Hicham_ | this is the beginning | Nov 07 19:23 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Development/Languages/QtSharp - KDE TechBase .::. Size~: 14.76 KB | Nov 07 19:23 |
| schestowitz | I don't think the Nurnberg guys are fans of Miguel and chums in Massachusetts | Nov 07 19:24 |
| schestowitz | They give SUSE a bad name | Nov 07 19:24 |
| _Hicham_ | QtSharp EXISTS on KDE wiki | Nov 07 19:24 |
| schestowitz | Also Hovo sapient and Jaffe are in Massachusetts | Nov 07 19:24 |
| schestowitz | They are responsible for the patent deal | Nov 07 19:24 |
| _Hicham_ | so don't tell that KDE will be always Mono Free | Nov 07 19:24 |
| lordtoran | ewww, youtube gives matthias reim instead | Nov 07 19:24 |
| *ender2070_ (n=ender207@wcphamil47guise.grokspots.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 07 19:24 | |
| schestowitz | SUSE wanted nothing to do with it | Nov 07 19:24 |
| lordtoran | folklore singer | Nov 07 19:24 |
| ender2070_ | damn notebook | Nov 07 19:24 |
| _Hicham_ | and by the way, they have influence on KDE too | Nov 07 19:24 |
| ender2070_ | lol | Nov 07 19:24 |
| schestowitz | swpats are invalid in Germany | Nov 07 19:24 |
| _Hicham_ | Mono will enter KDE | Nov 07 19:25 |
| ender2070_ | KDE's team said nothing official was going to be c#, they love c++/qt | Nov 07 19:25 |
| _Hicham_ | sooner or later | Nov 07 19:25 |
| _Hicham_ | and we will see | Nov 07 19:25 |
| Eruaran | Mono/C# is being pushed only by Novell employee's | Nov 07 19:25 |
| Eruaran | in KDE | Nov 07 19:25 |
| _Hicham_ | KDE's team contains a lot of Novell employees, see Novell contributions to KDE | Nov 07 19:25 |
| ender2070_ | Novell's KDE contributions were probably just bindings | Nov 07 19:26 |
| ender2070_ | lol | Nov 07 19:26 |
| Eruaran | You're obviously not on the mailing lists | Nov 07 19:26 |
| schestowitz | Can ogg be embedded in html5 graphically? | Nov 07 19:26 |
| schestowitz | Like with controls? | Nov 07 19:26 |
| schestowitz | Was there <audio>? | Nov 07 19:26 |
| ender2070_ | im over exaggerating | Nov 07 19:26 |
| Eruaran | The response of KDE dev's to the idea of Mono/C# has been tepid at best | Nov 07 19:26 |
| ender2070_ | novell was behind knetworkmanager | Nov 07 19:26 |
| Eruaran | Novell is like rat poison | Nov 07 19:27 |
| ender2070_ | LOL | Nov 07 19:27 |
| ender2070_ | eruaran - so you're saying kde hates mono? | Nov 07 19:27 |
| Eruaran | You can laugh all you like and talk about harmless projects all you like, but rat poison is 98% harmless | Nov 07 19:27 |
| Eruaran | Its the 2% poison that kills | Nov 07 19:27 |
| Eruaran | Don't put statements in my mouth | Nov 07 19:28 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Am I unusual in that I don't use any of these 'apps' on farcebook? "Top 10 Mashable Reader Facebook Apps": http://bit.ly/1H6aFQ #fb | Nov 07 19:28 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Top 10 Facebook Apps [Poll Results] .::. Size~: 74.45 KB | Nov 07 19:28 |
| Eruaran | The response of KDE dev's is in the mailing lists | Nov 07 19:28 |
| Eruaran | go read | Nov 07 19:28 |
| ender2070_ | link it | Nov 07 19:28 |
| Eruaran | google it | Nov 07 19:28 |
| ender2070_ | aren't you the one trying to prove something? | Nov 07 19:29 |
| Eruaran | no | Nov 07 19:30 |
| Eruaran | you are | Nov 07 19:30 |
| MinceR | lol | Nov 07 19:30 |
| ender2070_ | the united nations says there will be world riots - go find it | Nov 07 19:30 |
| ender2070_ | I don't see how it makes sense for me to go verify your claims | Nov 07 19:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Roy, I was reading your article about Acer and Windows7 being flat, very good article BTW, and all those who contributed to it. | Nov 07 19:31 |
| Eruaran | I'm not the one making claims about Mono & C# in KDE | Nov 07 19:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Maybe this is another reason sales are flat, besides the point that Seven is really just more Vista. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8346936.stm | Nov 07 19:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 80.67 KB | Nov 07 19:32 |
| schestowitz | http://www.w3schools.com/html5/tag_audio.asp | Nov 07 19:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: HTML 5 audio tag .::. Size~: 27.69 KB | Nov 07 19:32 |
| schestowitz | Chips_B_Malroy: there's more coming | Nov 07 19:33 |
| schestowitz | We found the tricks they use | Nov 07 19:33 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm did | Nov 07 19:33 |
| schestowitz | He was among those tricked | Nov 07 19:33 |
| ender2070_ | Eruaran - I remember reading about the KDE team mentioning they werent gonna code C# internally for the KDE project, but that bindings would be provided for third parties | Nov 07 19:33 |
| ender2070_ | Eruaran - the mailing list is something you brought up | Nov 07 19:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | good, phIRCe did not put up the title on that link I noticed, here is title: US jobless rate rises to over 10% | Nov 07 19:34 |
| ender2070_ | Eruaran - kde-devel ? | Nov 07 19:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Xmas with 10.2% jobless rate may not be very good for M$ this season | Nov 07 19:35 |
| _Hicham_ | just asked Rahul Sundaram, and he say that Miguel isn't a GNOME developer anymore | Nov 07 19:35 |
| _Hicham_ | so he doesn't have a say on it | Nov 07 19:35 |
| _Hicham_ | so, dear schestowitz, don't rely on speculations | Nov 07 19:35 |
| _Hicham_ | be more objective | Nov 07 19:36 |
| _Hicham_ | RedHat legal is more aware of patent traps | Nov 07 19:37 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: wait! | Nov 07 19:40 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Man of the Day: Matthias Ettrich http://ping.fm/9mMWF #kde | Nov 07 19:40 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Man of the Day: Matthias Ettrich | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 91.33 KB | Nov 07 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Who said I said so? | Nov 07 19:40 |
| schestowitz | I know he left GNOME's board and focuses on Mono | Nov 07 19:40 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : u just said that gnome 3.0 is gonna be mono-fied | Nov 07 19:41 |
| ender2070_ | Miguel doesnt have to be a GNOME developer | Nov 07 19:44 |
| _Hicham_ | he has to be what ? | Nov 07 19:47 |
| _Hicham_ | a MS dev ? | Nov 07 19:47 |
| ender2070_ | who owns the gnome foundation | Nov 07 19:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | is lefty on the the gnome foundation? | Nov 07 19:53 |
| ender2070_ | hes on the board | Nov 07 19:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | big mono fan there | Nov 07 19:54 |
| ender2070_ | yes | Nov 07 19:54 |
| ender2070_ | they have pro mono people all over their foundation | Nov 07 19:54 |
| ender2070_ | which is why i say miguel doesnt have to be a GNOME developer | Nov 07 19:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | true | Nov 07 19:54 |
| ender2070_ | he has friends there, thats good enough | Nov 07 19:55 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | he still has influence without being a dev | Nov 07 19:55 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | is Shuttlesworth on the the Gnome foundation? | Nov 07 19:56 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Is it right that @alexjs is asking if it's wierd to crowdsource every decision? | Nov 07 19:56 | |
| ender2070_ | not sure | Nov 07 19:57 |
| ender2070_ | oh this is cool, .net to java converter | Nov 07 19:57 |
| ender2070_ | https://net2java.dev.java.net/ | Nov 07 19:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | he seems to like mono though | Nov 07 19:57 |
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| ender2070_ | Chips_B_Malroy - interestingly though, ubuntu's choices end up being defaults in gnome | Nov 07 19:57 |
| ender2070_ | Chips_B_Malroy - its a correlation | Nov 07 19:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ender2070> that sounds about right | Nov 07 19:58 |
| ender2070_ | at the same time their KDE distro kubuntu is lacking polish | Nov 07 19:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I never bother with kubuntu | Nov 07 19:59 |
| ender2070_ | i dont usually but I try it out when it releases | Nov 07 19:59 |
| ender2070_ | to see if they bother trying harder | Nov 07 20:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Is Kubuntu Caught in a Downward Spiral? http://www.mepislovers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23471&highlight=kubuntu | Nov 07 20:02 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Is Kubuntu Caught in a Downward Spiral? - MEPISlovers Forums .::. Size~: 115.94 KB | Nov 07 20:02 |
| MinceR | at least kubuntu-desktop doesn't depend on pulseaudio :> | Nov 07 20:02 |
| ender2070_ | pulseaudio | Nov 07 20:04 |
| ender2070_ | grrrrr | Nov 07 20:04 |
| ender2070_ | i didnt hate it before | Nov 07 20:04 |
| ender2070_ | it screwed up my mythbuntu box | Nov 07 20:04 |
| ender2070_ | the volume controls are lacking already in mythbuntu, add pulseaudio to the mix and you'll never hear anything | Nov 07 20:05 |
| ender2070_ | Eruaran - ive been reading kde-devel and it appears KDE doesnt even like the mono bindings | Nov 07 20:06 |
| _goblin | wow....off topic: I thought the Wintrolls were the remit of COLA....it seems like they are really going for it in any of NG's of mainstream distros of Linux.. | Nov 07 20:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] They Came To Defend | The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/yf6wozk | Nov 07 20:21 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: They Came To Defend | The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 11.32 KB | Nov 07 20:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Hi Goblin, which Wintrolls are you referring to? | Nov 07 20:22 |
| _goblin | John Fuher | Nov 07 20:22 |
| _goblin | er.. | Nov 07 20:22 |
| _goblin | Ezkiel | Nov 07 20:23 |
| _goblin | Terry something... | Nov 07 20:23 |
| _goblin | all the regulars from COLA | Nov 07 20:23 |
| _goblin | oh and Hadron | Nov 07 20:24 |
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| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More on #Novell and #Microsoft Layoffs; Software #Patent Drones http://ping.fm/iBfxM #swpat | Nov 07 20:25 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: More on Novell and Microsoft Layoffs; Software Patent Drones | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 98.14 KB | Nov 07 20:25 |
| ender2070_ | it appears KDE is focusing on C++ mainly due to bloat-reduction | Nov 07 20:28 |
| ender2070_ | shipping with one binding | Nov 07 20:29 |
| ender2070_ | http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-core-devel&m=120664752104000&w=2 | Nov 07 20:29 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: 'Re: Guidance in KDE Admin' - MARC .::. Size~: 3.69 KB | Nov 07 20:29 |
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| Chips_B_Malroy | http://www.mepislovers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=23693 | Nov 07 20:40 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: News - Could Microsoft switch to Linux? - MEPISlovers Forums .::. Size~: 121.9 KB | Nov 07 20:40 |
| shreddar | I think I finally got everything working as well as (if not better) I had with Ubuntu before updates and other packages started breaking things. | Nov 07 20:40 |
| *ender2070_ (n=ender207@wcphamil47guise.grokspots.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 07 20:42 | |
| shreddar | I wonder if the ubuntu guy's have tried to address that issue yet. | Nov 07 20:42 |
| shreddar | At least with the stable repositories. | Nov 07 20:43 |
| *wallc has quit ("Page closed") | Nov 07 20:44 | |
| shreddar | Until they do that they should at least disable the update notification thing that pops up. | Nov 07 20:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Hi Wallc | Nov 07 20:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Wallc> you were the one that visited the MS store? | Nov 07 20:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Windows CE sneaks into ARM http://www.pclinuxos.com/forum/index.php/topic,64712.0.html | Nov 07 20:48 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: $120 netbook .::. Size~: 62.47 KB | Nov 07 20:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MS must be very scared of linux and android to do this | Nov 07 20:49 |
| schestowitz | wallc has just left | Nov 07 20:49 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mono and #GNOME 3.0 http://ping.fm/2F0Ok #novell #codeplex #trojan | Nov 07 20:49 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Mono and GNOME 3.0 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 94.22 KB | Nov 07 20:49 |
| shreddar | Windows CE already worked on ARM. | Nov 07 20:50 |
| shreddar | It's just that nobody had put it on a smartbook yet. | Nov 07 20:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | So we seeing Windows CE now be ported to Arm laptops | Nov 07 20:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Yes, but they had to buy CE from MS, which means that MS is going try to do another end run in the USA like they did with XP on netbooks | Nov 07 20:53 |
| *shreddar has quit () | Nov 07 20:53 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Its hard to see where CE will have enough apps or games for a Arm laptop | Nov 07 20:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | where Debian will have a complete system | Nov 07 20:54 |
| fewa | I have absolutely no respect for Google Books | Nov 07 20:54 |
| fewa | its full of public domain books to which google provides no access | Nov 07 20:55 |
| fewa | its just scandalous | Nov 07 20:55 |
| fewa | makes it useless for research | Nov 07 20:55 |
| fewa | http://books.google.com/books?id=yqaj8a3flRUC | Nov 07 20:56 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: An act to provide a hospital ... - Google Books .::. Size~: 42 KB | Nov 07 20:56 |
| fewa | its a friggen law | Nov 07 20:56 |
| fewa | ! | Nov 07 20:56 |
| fewa | from the GPO | Nov 07 20:56 |
| ender2070_ | project gutenburg | Nov 07 21:00 |
| fewa | they dont have massive scans of library books | Nov 07 21:00 |
| fewa | the schools really need to do their own scans | Nov 07 21:00 |
| ender2070_ | yes | Nov 07 21:00 |
| ender2070_ | schools do | Nov 07 21:00 |
| ender2070_ | you cant blame google for doing all that work and wanting to hold onto it | Nov 07 21:01 |
| fewa | instead of signing copyright violating and anti-competitive deals with Google | Nov 07 21:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | This is probably the reason that Fester keeps pouring money down the rathole that is Winmo (CE), that is he needs something, anything, no matter how bad to force OEM's to put MS software on ARM, in order to delay Linux | Nov 07 21:01 |
| fewa | ender2070_, Google is violating copyright | Nov 07 21:01 |
| ender2070_ | its a grey area | Nov 07 21:01 |
| fewa | http://www.google-watch.org/umich.html | Nov 07 21:01 |
| fewa | bunch of BS deals | Nov 07 21:01 |
| fewa | lots of copyfraud | Nov 07 21:01 |
| ender2070_ | BS deals that mean nothing | Nov 07 21:01 |
| fewa | by google | Nov 07 21:01 |
| ender2070_ | if its copyfraud its meaningless | Nov 07 21:01 |
| fewa | http://books.google.com/books?id=qFUkLT44s4EC | Nov 07 21:02 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Hamlet - Google Books .::. Size~: 39.66 KB | Nov 07 21:02 |
| fewa | download the pdf | Nov 07 21:02 |
| fewa | tons of copyfraud FUD language | Nov 07 21:02 |
| fewa | and watermarks | Nov 07 21:02 |
| ender2070_ | so | Nov 07 21:02 |
| ender2070_ | what are they doing wrong | Nov 07 21:03 |
| fewa | a company that does that shouldn't be given a monopoly in out of print books | Nov 07 21:03 |
| ender2070_ | you can take a public domain book, make slight changes, resell it and have copyright protection | Nov 07 21:03 |
| fewa | as courts may give google | Nov 07 21:03 |
| ender2070_ | look at the bible | Nov 07 21:03 |
| ender2070_ | as a good example | Nov 07 21:03 |
| fewa | ender2070_, not if it isn't origional | Nov 07 21:03 |
| fewa | "originality is the modicum of copyright" | Nov 07 21:03 |
| ender2070_ | you dont have public domain rights on their derivitive works | Nov 07 21:03 |
| fewa | Dowling v. United States (1985) | Nov 07 21:04 |
| fewa | (SCOTUS) | Nov 07 21:04 |
| ender2070_ | downling is a different issue | Nov 07 21:04 |
| fewa | it still has to be origional | Nov 07 21:04 |
| fewa | a translation is origional | Nov 07 21:04 |
| ender2070_ | currently you can take the bible, add a few pages, make some minor editing and sell it as your own version | Nov 07 21:04 |
| fewa | ender2070_, but you have no copyright in the underlying content | Nov 07 21:04 |
| *Chips_B_Malroy has quit ("Page closed") | Nov 07 21:05 | |
| fewa | its called copyfraud | Nov 07 21:05 |
| ender2070_ | when google scans a page, its not the original | Nov 07 21:05 |
| fewa | ender2070_, bullshit | Nov 07 21:05 |
| ender2070_ | its a picture | Nov 07 21:05 |
| ender2070_ | or OCR translates it | Nov 07 21:05 |
| ender2070_ | you can do whatever you want with public domain works | Nov 07 21:06 |
| ender2070_ | google can scan whatever books it wants, but you can still get the original public domain work | Nov 07 21:06 |
| ender2070_ | they arent required to give you their version | Nov 07 21:06 |
| fewa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgeman_Art_Library_v._Corel_Corp. | Nov 07 21:06 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 72.08 KB | Nov 07 21:06 |
| fewa | yes, they have no obligation to give you public domain books | Nov 07 21:07 |
| ender2070_ | "exact photographic copies" | Nov 07 21:07 |
| fewa | ender2070_, no | Nov 07 21:07 |
| fewa | ender2070_, the opinion states "faithful reproduction" | Nov 07 21:07 |
| ender2070_ | what i am saying is they dont have to give you the scanned copies with the same rights | Nov 07 21:07 |
| fewa | ender2070_, they dont give you any rights | Nov 07 21:07 |
| fewa | the law may give them rights | Nov 07 21:07 |
| ender2070_ | they arent preventing you from obtaining the originals | Nov 07 21:07 |
| fewa | or it may not | Nov 07 21:07 |
| fewa | they are trying to prevent you from doing something | Nov 07 21:07 |
| fewa | they have to have a right to preempt you from your free will | Nov 07 21:08 |
| ender2070_ | wait what are you saying | Nov 07 21:08 |
| ender2070_ | they are trying to prevent people from having the originals? | Nov 07 21:08 |
| fewa | copyright gives a right to prevent others from making copies | Nov 07 21:08 |
| fewa | if you have no copyright, you have no right to prevent others from making copies | Nov 07 21:08 |
| fewa | you have it all backwards | Nov 07 21:08 |
| fewa | <ender2070_> what i am saying is they dont have to give you the scanned copies with the same rights | Nov 07 21:08 |
| fewa | they are not a soverign entitiy | Nov 07 21:08 |
| fewa | they cant tell you what you can and cannot do | Nov 07 21:09 |
| fewa | thats what the law is for | Nov 07 21:09 |
| ender2070_ | thats what i was saying | Nov 07 21:09 |
| fewa | what you are saying is absurd | Nov 07 21:09 |
| ender2070_ | perhaps you're misinterpreting what I am saying | Nov 07 21:09 |
| fewa | you dont need rights | Nov 07 21:09 |
| fewa | but them claiming copyright, when none exists, is fraud | Nov 07 21:09 |
| fewa | copyfraud | Nov 07 21:09 |
| fewa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyfraud | Nov 07 21:10 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Copyfraud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 34.81 KB | Nov 07 21:10 |
| ender2070_ | in school I learned that if you adapt a public domain work into a new work its yours, but only the adapted version | Nov 07 21:10 |
| fewa | and such irresponsibility should not be encouraged by giving a monopoly over out of print, but in copyright works | Nov 07 21:10 |
| fewa | ender2070_, "adapt", yes, that is origionality | Nov 07 21:10 |
| fewa | but if you faithfully represent the origional, you gain no copyright in that underlying work | Nov 07 21:11 |
| fewa | even if the next person copies it from your reproduction | Nov 07 21:11 |
| ender2070_ | oh i dont disagree with that either | Nov 07 21:11 |
| fewa | a new version of the bible isn't all copyrighted | Nov 07 21:11 |
| ender2070_ | the extra stuff is | Nov 07 21:11 |
| fewa | only a part with a new translation, or editor notes | Nov 07 21:11 |
| ender2070_ | yeah | Nov 07 21:12 |
| fewa | but books never differentiate | Nov 07 21:12 |
| ender2070_ | thats all im talking about | Nov 07 21:12 |
| fewa | that part is fraud | Nov 07 21:12 |
| fewa | claiming copyright over the whole thing | Nov 07 21:12 |
| fewa | that is fraud | Nov 07 21:12 |
| ender2070_ | im not saying google has that right | Nov 07 21:12 |
| fewa | or claiming copyright over sothing with no origionality at all | Nov 07 21:12 |
| fewa | ender2070_, they dont have copyright in any of the books they scan | Nov 07 21:12 |
| ender2070_ | fewa - i understand this | Nov 07 21:12 |
| fewa | as all they are doing is "faithfully reproducing" | Nov 07 21:12 |
| fewa | nothing | Nov 07 21:12 |
| fewa | zilth | Nov 07 21:13 |
| fewa | *zilch | Nov 07 21:13 |
| fewa | and its really not worth much easier | Nov 07 21:13 |
| fewa | the schools could easily do it themselves | Nov 07 21:13 |
| fewa | and they should | Nov 07 21:13 |
| ender2070_ | yeah | Nov 07 21:13 |
| ender2070_ | actually this is only one of the few things I agree with MSFT on | Nov 07 21:13 |
| fewa | http://www.google-watch.org/umich.htmlhttp://www.google-watch.org/busted.html | Nov 07 21:14 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 07 21:14 |
| fewa | http://www.google-watch.org/busted.html | Nov 07 21:14 |
| fewa | they are breaking the copyright law | Nov 07 21:14 |
| fewa | weather the law should be changed is another issue | Nov 07 21:14 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Living in the future: machines to be bored for you http://bit.ly/2MT1wO HT @picturecool | Nov 07 21:14 | |
| fewa | but we shouldn't just keep the law the same, and give google a waiver from it | Nov 07 21:14 |
| fewa | which is what the court is stupidly persuing | Nov 07 21:14 |
| fewa | and is highly anti-competitive | Nov 07 21:15 |
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| trmanco | arora is faster than ff 3.5 | Nov 07 21:16 |
| fewa | and is a joke upon justice and law | Nov 07 21:16 |
| fewa | --if you are big, you don't have to obey the law | Nov 07 21:16 |
| fewa | --and the courts will even class action exempt you from it | Nov 07 21:16 |
| trmanco | http://tinyurl.com/ye8cvtl | Nov 07 21:17 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: SunSpider JavaScript Benchmark Results .::. Size~: 3 KB | Nov 07 21:17 |
| fewa | like the telecom retroactive immunity | Nov 07 21:17 |
| fewa | break the law as a citizen, go to jail, break the law as a corporation, go to Washington, and get retroactive immunity | Nov 07 21:18 |
| fewa | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act_of_1978_Amendments_Act_of_2008 | Nov 07 21:19 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 Amendments Act of 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 53.8 KB | Nov 07 21:19 |
| fewa | to remove immunity provisions http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00164 | Nov 07 21:20 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote .::. Size~: 50.89 KB | Nov 07 21:20 |
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| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8346833.stm | Nov 07 21:26 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 80.47 KB | Nov 07 21:26 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Xandros to Visit #Microsoft Show, Samsung’s #Ballnux Phones Fail http://ping.fm/gSa2B | Nov 07 21:28 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Xandros to Visit Microsoft Show, Samsungs Ballnux Phones Fail | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 95.44 KB | Nov 07 21:28 |
| ender2070__ | did you get the one about msft violating gpl again? | Nov 07 21:30 |
| ender2070__ | the imagemaker issue | Nov 07 21:30 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Found to be a #GPL Violator, Again? http://ping.fm/Q4Gjk | Nov 07 21:31 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Found to be a GPL Violator, Again? | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 92.29 KB | Nov 07 21:31 |
| schestowitz | http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/bentley/eu-agrees-to-telecom-reform/?cs=37319 | Nov 07 21:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: EU Agrees to Telecom Reform | Blogs | ITBusinessEdge.com .::. Size~: 80.03 KB | Nov 07 21:32 |
| schestowitz | I partly blame MSFT for this: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/10/26/rip-geocities-the-old-days-remembered | Nov 07 21:33 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: R.I.P. GeoCities: A Community is Killed | WebProNews .::. Size~: 41.73 KB | Nov 07 21:33 |
| schestowitz | They drove staff out | Nov 07 21:33 |
| *ender2070_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Nov 07 21:33 | |
| ender2070__ | geocities, lol | Nov 07 21:34 |
| ender2070__ | want to see the OLDEST website I still have running? (1998, ty to fortunecity) | Nov 07 21:34 |
| schestowitz | Yahoo ought to have just outsources hosting | Nov 07 21:35 |
| schestowitz | I have one there from 1998 too | Nov 07 21:35 |
| ender2070__ | http://rivendell.fortunecity.com/mage/611/ | Nov 07 21:35 |
| schestowitz | /s/have/had/ | Nov 07 21:35 |
| ender2070__ | it was coded in netscape 3/notepad | Nov 07 21:35 |
| schestowitz | 1997 actually... | Nov 07 21:36 |
| schestowitz | Lamer teen sites..... | Nov 07 21:36 |
| ender2070__ | dont even try it in konquerer | Nov 07 21:36 |
| ender2070__ | lol | Nov 07 21:36 |
| schestowitz | We now have this thing called myspace for next geocities generation | Nov 07 21:36 |
| schestowitz | "My Dads webpage" is a broken link | Nov 07 21:37 |
| schestowitz | http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/10/28/why-british-singer-matt-goss-likes-twittering-with-fans | Nov 07 21:38 |
| ender2070__ | yeah | Nov 07 21:38 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Why British Singer Matt Goss Likes Twittering with Fans | WebProNews .::. Size~: 38.85 KB | Nov 07 21:38 |
| ender2070__ | he kind of died, and cant maintain his site | Nov 07 21:38 |
| ender2070__ | lol | Nov 07 21:40 |
| ender2070__ | and i forgot the login details for fortunecity a long time ago | Nov 07 21:40 |
| ender2070__ | or i'd have rid the planet of that site | Nov 07 21:40 |
| schestowitz | Sorry to hear it | Nov 07 21:41 |
| schestowitz | What makes many sites there so static and out of date is probably people forgetting their login details, not knowing how it morphed into Yahoo! ids, or not even having the same old E-mail address for password rescue | Nov 07 21:43 |
| schestowitz | http://linuxcrunch.com/content/skypes-legal-situation-clears | Nov 07 21:43 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Skype's Legal situation clears | We love Linux ! .::. Size~: 20.06 KB | Nov 07 21:43 |
| ender2070__ | i think mine is the old email issue | Nov 07 21:45 |
| ender2070__ | i used to have a @usa.net email when they gave free pop3 | Nov 07 21:45 |
| schestowitz | I remember those | Nov 07 21:52 |
| tessier | http://www.withinwindows.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/example1.png | Nov 07 21:53 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/png type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 07 21:53 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/News/Subversion-Goes-to-Apache | Nov 07 21:53 |
| tessier | Where did he get the symbol names if he disassembled that? | Nov 07 21:53 |
| MinceR | they seem automatically generated | Nov 07 21:54 |
| schestowitz | tessier: see http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/07/vista-7-gpl-violation/ | Nov 07 21:54 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Microsoft Found to be a GPL Violator, Again? | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 92.29 KB | Nov 07 21:54 |
| tessier | MinceR: I don't see how that is possible. | Nov 07 21:54 |
| MinceR | i'm not sure about the function name, but if this is some VM-based language then that's probably stored as a string | Nov 07 21:54 |
| tessier | Disassemblers don't work that way unless the binary had debug info still in it. | Nov 07 21:54 |
| tessier | It's C. Not a vm based language. | Nov 07 21:55 |
| MinceR | num4 looks pretty arbitrary | Nov 07 21:55 |
| MinceR | index is used many times as an index | Nov 07 21:55 |
| MinceR | many other names are derived from type names | Nov 07 21:55 |
| schestowitz | Maybe s/he watched the names | Nov 07 21:55 |
| schestowitz | For readability | Nov 07 21:55 |
| MinceR | they might even be names specified by a person who did the disassembly | Nov 07 21:55 |
| MinceR | (that is, he renamed a few things for readability) | Nov 07 21:56 |
| schestowitz | Yes, that's what I meany | Nov 07 21:56 |
| schestowitz | *nt | Nov 07 21:56 |
| MinceR | are you sure it's C? the code on the right is C$ | Nov 07 21:56 |
| MinceR | s/.$/#/ | Nov 07 21:56 |
| MinceR | actually it can't be C | Nov 07 21:56 |
| MinceR | as C doesn't have the new operator | Nov 07 21:56 |
| tessier | GPL'd C# code? WTF? | Nov 07 21:57 |
| tessier | Sounds like he got what he deserved. | Nov 07 21:57 |
| MinceR | he should still sue for it. | Nov 07 21:57 |
| tessier | Certainly | Nov 07 21:57 |
| MinceR | so that m$ gets what they deserve, too. | Nov 07 21:57 |
| MinceR | (well, at least a tiny fraction of it) | Nov 07 21:57 |
| ender2070__ | since his project is on codeplex, he probably already likes msft | Nov 07 21:58 |
| ender2070__ | he might let it go | Nov 07 21:58 |
| MinceR | it's indeed possible | Nov 07 21:59 |
| ender2070__ | "Nat was a Computer Science and Math graduate; I was a math drop out and we had no management experience. This means that we made every possible management mistake in the book, but all of our friends and employees stuck with us as we learned and as we worked to get the company off the ground." - Miguel De Icaza, VP of Novell | Nov 07 22:03 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] What to do...Ive just seen a Ubuntu based distro claiming it has "Silverlight" out of the box....?!? lol..must be a full moon again. | Nov 07 22:03 | |
| tessier | I still don't see how Miguel rates being a VP at Novell | Nov 07 22:07 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @_goblin you could also get a cow with foot&mouth 'out of the box' | Nov 07 22:10 | |
| schestowitz | Italian court finds CIA agents guilty of kidnapping terrorism suspect < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/04/cia-guilty-rendition-abu-omar > | Nov 07 22:12 |
| schestowitz | http://www.shahidulnews.com/?p=6426 | Nov 07 22:13 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Leaning on Friendly Nations | ShahidulNews .::. Size~: 112.82 KB | Nov 07 22:13 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Global climate deal at least a year away, negotiators say < http://ping.fm/NtsBe > procrastination? | Nov 07 22:14 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Investigation of G20 death 'cover-up' would be inappropriate, Ian Tomlinson's family told" http://ping.fm/hS3WX Sad. | Nov 07 22:16 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Noam Chomsky: "US Foreign Policy is Straight Out of the Mafia" http://ur1.ca/fci8 #Afghanistan #Iraq #hc #Obama #cuba #NetNeutrality #media | Nov 07 22:18 | |
| ender2070__ | is there anything the CIA does that doesn't violate laws somewhere | Nov 07 22:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | the CIA is sort of required to violate laws | Nov 07 22:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats their job | Nov 07 22:19 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 07 22:19 |
| phIRCe-local | the CIA is sort of required to violate laws | Nov 07 22:19 |
| phIRCe-local | thats their job | Nov 07 22:19 |
| MinceR | lol | Nov 07 22:19 |
| MinceR | don't they get secret exceptions? | Nov 07 22:20 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/13882368 | Nov 07 22:20 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Justin O'Brien (threethirty) 's status on Thursday, 05-Nov-09 22:46:20 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 7.97 KB | Nov 07 22:20 |
| schestowitz | "♻ @teddks: @pobega If valuing my freedom and my community is extreme, then yes, I am extreme. !freesoftware !windows7sins !gnu !linux !fsf" | Nov 07 22:20 |
| MinceR | (i lol'd at phIRCe-local repeating the lines) | Nov 07 22:20 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @schestowitz lol...I think they are meaning Moonlight....and looking again at the site I think its a kids project... | Nov 07 22:20 | |
| MinceR | xxxtreme! | Nov 07 22:20 |
| MinceR | what's all that recycling signage in those twitter/identi.ca messages? | Nov 07 22:21 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @_goblin yes, Moonlight is indeed a kids' project | Nov 07 22:22 | |
| schestowitz | MinceR: meaning you pass on someone else's item, retwat [sic] | Nov 07 22:23 |
| MinceR | ic | Nov 07 22:23 |
| MinceR | isn't that "retwit"? | Nov 07 22:23 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, whatever | Nov 07 22:23 |
| MinceR | :D | Nov 07 22:23 |
| schestowitz | !google guardian twitter twatters | Nov 07 22:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Behind the music: With Stephen Fry on Twitter, who needs The X ... | http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/nov/05/stephen-fry-twitter | Nov 07 22:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Not safe for work: I'm like Moses, but for Twitter - Paul Carr ... | http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jun/03/not-safe-for-work-twitter-10-commandments | Nov 07 22:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - twatter.com on Flickr - Photo Sharing! | http://www.flickr.com/photos/36712951%40N06/3895141588/ | Nov 07 22:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - jim mcs (jim_mcs) on Twitter | http://twitter.com/jim_mcs | Nov 07 22:24 |
| ender2070__ | the problem is the CIA's secret exceptions leak into other countries | Nov 07 22:24 |
| schestowitz | !google guardian twitter twats | Nov 07 22:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - David Cameron says sorry for 'twat' comment during radio interview ... | http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jul/29/david-cameron-apology-radio-twitter | Nov 07 22:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Was David Cameron's Twitter tirade too blue for radio? | Media ... | http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/mediamonkeyblog/2009/jul/29/david-cameron-twitter-ofcom | Nov 07 22:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Tweet, Twat, Twit -- Twittering | http://hubpages.com/hub/twitter-tweeting | Nov 07 22:24 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Questioning Twits, Tweets, and Twats - SFBG Politics Blog | http://www.sfbg.com/blogs/politics/2009/03/questioning_twits_tweets_and_t.html | Nov 07 22:24 |
| schestowitz | ender2070__: CIA has no borders | Nov 07 22:24 |
| ender2070__ | unfortunately thats true | Nov 07 22:24 |
| schestowitz | They assassinate all over the place | Nov 07 22:24 |
| schestowitz | You can only hope they kill the right people | Nov 07 22:25 |
| ender2070__ | the only thing I can do is report their actions to the Canadian Privacy Commissioner | Nov 07 22:25 |
| ender2070__ | and hope something gets done | Nov 07 22:25 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. They'd assassinate the Canadian Privacy Commissioner | Nov 07 22:26 |
| schestowitz | Along with the complaint | Nov 07 22:26 |
| ender2070__ | LOL | Nov 07 22:26 |
| schestowitz | But they still can't find Boogyman Osama, they say | Nov 07 22:26 |
| ender2070__ | lol | Nov 07 22:26 |
| ender2070__ | reminds me of bruno actually | Nov 07 22:26 |
| schestowitz | You'd think that by torturing people close to Obama they could track him down, no? | Nov 07 22:27 |
| schestowitz | People are too connected to hide forever, IMHO | Nov 07 22:27 |
| schestowitz | Some say he's dead | Nov 07 22:27 |
| schestowitz | But it's like that Korean leader | Nov 07 22:27 |
| MinceR | obama or osama? :> | Nov 07 22:27 |
| schestowitz | They need him alive in people's dream | Nov 07 22:27 |
| schestowitz | !google korea photoshopped | Nov 07 22:27 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - North Korea Sucks at Photoshop | http://digg.com/odd_stuff/North_Korea_Sucks_at_Photoshop | Nov 07 22:27 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Korean Photoshop Disaster #2: Somewhat Less than a Woman (Updated ... | http://thegrandnarrative.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/yu-in-yeong-bikini/ | Nov 07 22:27 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - North Korea photoshops stroke from Kim Jong Il • The Register | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/07/kim_jong_il_photoshop/ | Nov 07 22:27 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - N. Korea's L'il Kim Photoshopped, Looks Better ("All the News That ... | http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2009/07/n-koreas-lil-kim-photoshopped-looks-better-all-the-news-that-isnt/ | Nov 07 22:27 |
| ender2070__ | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk2oee2kjT8 | Nov 07 22:28 |
| schestowitz | !google korea photoshopped" | Nov 07 22:28 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - North Korea Sucks at Photoshop | http://digg.com/odd_stuff/North_Korea_Sucks_at_Photoshop | Nov 07 22:28 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - Korean Photoshop Disaster #2: Somewhat Less than a Woman (Updated ... | http://thegrandnarrative.wordpress.com/2009/09/07/yu-in-yeong-bikini/ | Nov 07 22:28 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - North Korea photoshops stroke from Kim Jong Il • The Register | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/07/kim_jong_il_photoshop/ | Nov 07 22:28 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - N. Korea's L'il Kim Photoshopped, Looks Better ("All the News That ... | http://www.britannica.com/blogs/2009/07/n-koreas-lil-kim-photoshopped-looks-better-all-the-news-that-isnt/ | Nov 07 22:28 |
| schestowitz | "@mlinksva, I'm more for "pro" campaigns than "anti" ones. Maybe a "here's how to run !GNU / #Linux on your Mac hardware!" campaign? !fsf" | Nov 07 22:28 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/13763702 | Nov 07 22:28 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Bradley M. Kuhn (bkuhn) 's status on Wednesday, 04-Nov-09 17:51:16 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 7.83 KB | Nov 07 22:28 |
| schestowitz | Stupid mouse scroller hit the wrong thing, sorry | Nov 07 22:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @schestowitz Moonlight/Mono et al, are not any project my kid wants to be involved in!!! http://www.twitpic.com/l4q5a | Nov 07 22:29 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: My son in high spirits after removing MONO from his favorite ... on Twitpic .::. Size~: 7.88 KB | Nov 07 22:29 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] mm the plot thickens...a release of Ubuntu with minor mods, promotion of MS technologies and a Twitter account who follows mostly MS... | Nov 07 22:33 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] I smell a Ballmer. | Nov 07 22:33 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @_goblin what's it called? armpitux? | Nov 07 22:36 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.hillandknowlton.com/press/releases/2009/10/29/HK-selected-media-sponsor-for-climate-change-conference | Nov 07 22:37 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Hill & Knowlton selected as official media sponsor for United Nations Climate Change Conference | Hill & Knowlton .::. Size~: 10.27 KB | Nov 07 22:37 |
| schestowitz | http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/05/venezuela-chavez-adm.html | Nov 07 22:38 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Venezuela bans violent video games: a first-person guest essay - Boing Boing .::. Size~: 153.1 KB | Nov 07 22:38 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] win! RT @picturecool Russian cakes #photo http://bit.ly/23E1XW | Nov 07 22:40 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Photos: Russian cakes .::. Size~: 64.98 KB | Nov 07 22:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.editorsweblog.org/newsrooms_and_journalism/2009/11/murdoch_postpones_date_for_introducing_p.php | Nov 07 22:44 |
| _goblin | lol..... | Nov 07 22:45 |
| _goblin | Jo Shields: | Nov 07 22:45 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Delusions of adequacy given same status as religion http://is.gd/4PQ39 | Nov 07 22:45 | |
| _goblin | "Basically I won't up anything to my PPA I'm not happy uploading to Debian/Ubuntu. We're happy to put MS stuff in (e.g. IronPython)" | Nov 07 22:45 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Delusions of adequacy given same status as religion - News of the News .::. Size~: 34.84 KB | Nov 07 22:45 |
| *Balrog_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Nov 07 22:45 | |
| schestowitz | _goblin: link? | Nov 07 22:46 |
| _goblin | standby | Nov 07 22:46 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @davidgerard win! RT @picturecool Russian cakes #photo http://bit.ly/23E1XW | Nov 07 22:46 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Photos: Russian cakes .::. Size~: 64.98 KB | Nov 07 22:46 |
| _goblin | fourth comment down..... | Nov 07 22:46 |
| _goblin | http://twitter.com/directhex | Nov 07 22:46 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Jo Shields (directhex) on Twitter .::. Size~: 36.76 KB | Nov 07 22:46 |
| _goblin | Ive taken a screen dump | Nov 07 22:46 |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20091106/1551566841.shtml | Nov 07 22:46 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Sarah Palin Joins Al Gore In Not Realizing That Everyone's A Reporter These Days | Techdirt .::. Size~: 43.79 KB | Nov 07 22:47 |
| _goblin | Sarah Palin is a fine looking woman.... | Nov 07 22:47 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: maybe he has a thing for Ballmer, not just for Miguel | Nov 07 22:48 |
| _goblin | lol - probably | Nov 07 22:48 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: yes | Nov 07 22:48 |
| _goblin | Jo also has many MS faithful following him | Nov 07 22:48 |
| schestowitz | But electability shouldn't have anything to do with looks | Nov 07 22:48 |
| _goblin | why? | Nov 07 22:48 |
| schestowitz | Too many fools vote like it's Hollywood... | Nov 07 22:48 |
| _goblin | they are all as bad as each other.... | Nov 07 22:48 |
| schestowitz | Ha. Arnold and Ronald (Reagan) | Nov 07 22:48 |
| _goblin | at least if they are pleasant to look at.... | Nov 07 22:49 |
| _goblin | there is one exception... | Nov 07 22:49 |
| _goblin | George Galloway - decent man | Nov 07 22:49 |
| _goblin | and I don't mean pleasant to look at. | Nov 07 22:50 |
| schestowitz | http://leftthought.blogspot.com/2008/02/noam-chomsky-on-obama.html "He [Obama] looks right into your eyes when you talk to him" | Nov 07 22:50 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Lost Highway Times...Paths in Oblivion: Noam Chomsky on Obama .::. Size~: 191 KB | Nov 07 22:50 |
| schestowitz | ""When I was driving home the other day and listening to NPR - my masochist streak - they happened to have a long segment on Barack Obama. It was very favorable, really enthusiastic. Here is a new star rising in the political firmament. I was listening to see if the report would say anything about his position on issues - any issue. Nothing. It was just about his image. I think they may have had a couple words about him being in | Nov 07 22:51 |
| schestowitz | favor of doing something about the climate. What are his positions?" | Nov 07 22:51 |
| schestowitz | PATRIOT+ | Nov 07 22:51 |
| schestowitz | 'bailout' (looting) | Nov 07 22:52 |
| schestowitz | No healthcare reform... | Nov 07 22:52 |
| schestowitz | And the list goes on | Nov 07 22:52 |
| schestowitz | Nice face on ugly policy | Nov 07 22:52 |
| schestowitz | And then there's Biden | Nov 07 22:52 |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20091106/0214196822.shtml | Nov 07 22:52 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: IP Czar Focused On Protecting Jobs, Not Promoting Progress? | Techdirt .::. Size~: 49.33 KB | Nov 07 22:52 |
| schestowitz | !google biden right person ip | Nov 07 22:52 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - Slashdot | Biden Promises 'Right Person' As Copyright Czar | http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl%3Fsid%3D09/04/22/2226233 | Nov 07 22:52 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - National Journal Online -- Tech Daily Dose -- Biden: We Will Find ... | http://techdailydose.nationaljournal.com/2009/04/biden-we-will-find-the-right-i.php | Nov 07 22:52 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - Copyrights & Campaigns: BREAKING: IP Czar will be...'the right person' | http://copyrightsandcampaigns.blogspot.com/2009/04/breaking-ip-czar-will-bethe-right.html | Nov 07 22:52 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Biden promises 'right person' as new U.S. copyright czar ... | http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10224689-38.html | Nov 07 22:52 |
| schestowitz | "Then, on being questioned she appeared to support Hollywood's position that any net neutrality laws won't apply to mandating content filters on ISPs. It's looking like -- just as was initially feared -- this position is really to get Hollywood's own representative in the White House. What a shame. If you must have an "IP Czar" shouldn't it be someone who's actually focused on making sure progress is being promoted, rather than | Nov 07 22:52 |
| schestowitz | someone who wants to blindly crack down on infringement with no thought towards whether or not it makes sense?" | Nov 07 22:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Carolyn McCarthy: we should be ashamed if we cannot care for American children #hc | Nov 07 22:53 | |
| *Balrog_ (n=Balrog@pool-173-59-71-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 07 22:55 | |
| schestowitz | http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1474929 | Nov 07 22:56 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: SSRN-Real Copyright Reform by Jessica Litman .::. Size~: 39.3 KB | Nov 07 22:56 |
| *PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving") | Nov 07 22:58 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: We don't have to say the name. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/18930.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/532671.html | Nov 07 23:00 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: reddragdiva | We don't have to say the name. .::. Size~: 28.97 KB | Nov 07 23:00 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: reddragdiva: We don't have to say the name. .::. Size~: 19.86 KB | Nov 07 23:00 |
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| sebsebseb | Nov 07 23:02 | |
| MinceR | Nov 07 23:04 | |
| ender2070__ | did u guys say anything | Nov 07 23:05 |
| MinceR | we said nothing | Nov 07 23:05 |
| sebsebseb | we said space bar | Nov 07 23:05 |
| sebsebseb | or space | Nov 07 23:05 |
| _goblin | Nov 07 23:05 | |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/5484970513 | Nov 07 23:06 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Twitter / Glyn Moody: RT @einfeldt The line of p ... .::. Size~: 9.96 KB | Nov 07 23:06 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Rep. Tom Price prooves that Republican's play is "don't get sick" by pulling stuff out of his ass "virtue of selfishness" | Nov 07 23:07 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] My favorite covers #1 http://bit.ly/1AcMUv | Nov 07 23:13 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] My favorite covers #2 http://bit.ly/UgaP4 | Nov 07 23:14 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] My favorite covers #3 http://bit.ly/4Ca650 | Nov 07 23:15 | |
| schestowitz | http://googlecode.blogspot.com/2009/11/introducing-closure-tools.html | Nov 07 23:16 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Google Code Blog: Introducing Closure Tools .::. Size~: 144.26 KB | Nov 07 23:16 |
| *shreddar (i=62f0385c@gateway/web/freenode/x-jlmaspnaygphmffd) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 07 23:18 | |
| shreddar | Alright I'm back. (Some last minute thing came up) | Nov 07 23:18 |
| schestowitz | http://its-buggered-mate.apps.lpmodules.com/ | Nov 07 23:20 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Nov 07 23:20 |
| shreddar | What is that? | Nov 07 23:21 |
| *lis` has quit ("baibai<3") | Nov 07 23:21 | |
| schestowitz | Try it | Nov 07 23:22 |
| schestowitz | WOn't explo^H^H^H^H^H^H^He | Nov 07 23:22 |
| MinceR | huh? | Nov 07 23:23 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/tories_vetting/ | Nov 07 23:23 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Tories will scrap 'pre-crime' vetting • The Register .::. Size~: 28.08 KB | Nov 07 23:23 |
| shreddar | I did. I just got a google map thing with no explanation. | Nov 07 23:24 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody German Constitutional Court 1983: Mass surveillance is incompatible with a free and democratic society - http://bit.ly/2VMWg1 | Nov 07 23:26 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: B2fxxx .::. Size~: 102.38 KB | Nov 07 23:26 |
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| ziggyfish | good morning all | Nov 07 23:28 |
| ziggyfish | schestowitz, do you use KDE? | Nov 07 23:28 |
| schestowitz | !google Kool !!!! Desktop Environment | Nov 07 23:29 |
| phIRCe-local | [1] - KDE - Be free | http://www.kde.org/ | Nov 07 23:29 |
| phIRCe-local | [2] - KDE - KDE Project Announced | http://www.kde.org/announcements/announcement.php | Nov 07 23:29 |
| phIRCe-local | [3] - New Project: Kool Desktop Environment. Programmers wanted! - de ... | http://groups.google.com/group/de.comp.os.linux.misc/msg/cb4b2d67ffc3ffce | Nov 07 23:29 |
| phIRCe-local | [4] - Kool Desktop Environment definition of Kool Desktop Environment in ... | http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Kool%2BDesktop%2BEnvironment | Nov 07 23:29 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I have for most of the time | Nov 07 23:29 |
| ziggyfish | schestowitz, I'm trying out kubuntu 9.10, looks cool, but can't get the multiple displays to work correctly | Nov 07 23:30 |
| _goblin | NovelPulse?????? Where have I been the last few days.... | Nov 07 23:31 |
| _goblin | must have missed out on some stuff | Nov 07 23:31 |
| _goblin | ziggyfish...can't help with your multi-disp issue however Ive been loving Kubuntu 9.10.....its made a KDE convert or should I say Konvert out of me.... | Nov 07 23:32 |
| schestowitz | As this shows, it collects all the worst ideas around copyright infringement – third-party liability, limited safe harbour rules, “three strikes and you're out”, anti-circumvention legislation etc. – and wants to make them mandatory in most of the developed world. | Nov 07 23:32 |
| schestowitz | But step back a minute, and notice what I've just written: the worst ideas around *copyright infringement*. And yet time and again ACTA governments around the world have insisted that this is not a copyright treaty, but a treaty to fight counterfeiting by large-scale, organised crime – it's even in ACTA's name. | Nov 07 23:32 |
| schestowitz | From http://www.computerworlduk.com/community/blogs/index.cfm?entryid=2626&blogid=14 | Nov 07 23:32 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: The Great ACTA Lie Revealed - Community - ComputerworldUK .::. Size~: 84.05 KB | Nov 07 23:32 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: Pulse won't go anywhere | Nov 07 23:33 |
| schestowitz | ziggyfish: how so? | Nov 07 23:33 |
| ziggyfish | where is the option to have the desktop spread across multiple monitors instead of cloning one. The only solution I can see is changing the Xorg config | Nov 07 23:33 |
| schestowitz | Did you get a driver in? | Nov 07 23:33 |
| schestowitz | No | Nov 07 23:33 |
| schestowitz | No need, KDE can do that | Nov 07 23:33 |
| schestowitz | It was simple | Nov 07 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Choose layout for screens | Nov 07 23:34 |
| schestowitz | Hold on | Nov 07 23:34 |
| schestowitz | System settings | Nov 07 23:34 |
| schestowitz | kcontrol was renamed | Nov 07 23:34 |
| schestowitz | >>Dsiplay | Nov 07 23:34 |
| schestowitz | >>multiple monitors | Nov 07 23:34 |
| ziggyfish | when I do that. it says | Nov 07 23:35 |
| schestowitz | tessier: http://michaelrobertson.com/archive.php?minute_id=302 | Nov 07 23:36 |
| schestowitz | Did you also install the driver? It's GUI only | Nov 07 23:37 |
| ziggyfish | This module is only for configuring systems with a single desktop spread across multiple monitors. You do not appear to have this configuration | Nov 07 23:37 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Darwin’s Wolf Mystery Solved < http://ping.fm/K5iJM > evolution is a "theory" like gravity is "theory" | Nov 07 23:38 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Darwins Wolf Mystery Solved | Wired Science | Wired.com .::. Size~: 78.58 KB | Nov 07 23:38 |
| _goblin | schestowitz: Id never heard of it until today.......my bad. | Nov 07 23:39 |
| schestowitz | ziggyfish: seems like your driver still isn't quite there. Which driver do you use? | Nov 07 23:40 |
| schestowitz | I got some similar message before I installed the driver and enabled composite (need to restart X) | Nov 07 23:41 |
| schestowitz | Be sure to restart X if you have just installed the driver | Nov 07 23:41 |
| ziggyfish | I'll look into what's wrong with the driver, thanks (Ubuntu installs the driver automaticly for me) | Nov 07 23:42 |
| schestowitz | What a mess: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1560760/uk-probation-it-complete-failure | Nov 07 23:43 |
| schestowitz | ziggyfish: you can in Kubuntu also | Nov 07 23:43 |
| schestowitz | Go to... wait.. | Nov 07 23:44 |
| schestowitz | Hardware | Nov 07 23:44 |
| schestowitz | Under "advanced" | Nov 07 23:44 |
| schestowitz | Or maybe it was another menu with a button to install the graphics driver | Nov 07 23:45 |
| ziggyfish | I'm installing some kubuntu-restricted-extras | Nov 07 23:47 |
| schestowitz | http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/as_facebook_ages_gen_y_turns_to_twitter.php | Nov 07 23:50 |
| schestowitz | ziggyfish: is it explicitly including the driver you need? | Nov 07 23:50 |
| ziggyfish | brb | Nov 07 23:50 |
| ziggyfish | brb, need restart | Nov 07 23:51 |
| *ziggyfish has quit ("Leaving") | Nov 07 23:51 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Simon Tatham's first job coding horror story: http://simont.livejournal.com/216731.html | Nov 07 23:52 | |
| phIRCe-local | Title: Simon Tatham - Geek Story Hour: Parser of Death .::. Size~: 51.7 KB | Nov 07 23:52 |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] Rep. Tim BIshop talking about cutting #corporatewelfare ! #hc | Nov 07 23:53 | |
| schestowitz | Thirsty kangaroos invade outback town http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/video/2009/nov/05/australia-drought-kangaroo | Nov 07 23:56 |
| *schestowitz wonders... logging off should do, why restart? | Nov 07 23:56 | |
| -BNc/#boycottnovell-[scientes] RT @singlepayer State opt out provision in return for allowing state 'opt in #singlepayer' kucinich amendment #hc Dems give free compramise! | Nov 07 23:56 | |
| schestowitz | Adobe devours more history... http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/2009/11/subtext_modern_day_annotation.html | Nov 07 23:57 |
| phIRCe-local | Title: BBC - BBC Internet Blog: Subtext: modern day annotation and social media .::. Size~: 49.67 KB | Nov 07 23:57 |
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