Boycott Novell logo

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 26th, 2009

-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Growing Very Popular, Says Older #MySQL CEO http://www.zdnetasia.com/insight/software/0,39044822,62059572,00.htmNov 26 00:05
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla #Firefox Develops Faster Than Rivals http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-10403604-264.htmlNov 26 00:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Firefox hopes to one-up IE with fast graphics | Deep Tech - CNET News .::. Size~: 61.65 KBNov 26 00:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google 's Web Browser Now Opening to Many Extensions http://ur1.ca/gjon http://ur1.ca/gjooNov 26 00:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Chrome extensions site now open for uploads | Webware - CNET .::. Size~: 50.45 KBNov 26 00:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle:   Feedly  Your favourite feeds now on Chrome .::. Size~: 33.22 KBNov 26 00:13
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Eclipse 4 Gets Exceptionally Good http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Eclipse-4-goes-a-mile-further-867979.htmlNov 26 00:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Eclipse 4 goes a mile further - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 31.29 KBNov 26 00:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Wikipedia co-founder Defends Openness as Reliable Paradigm http://ur1.ca/gjoyNov 26 00:18
phIRCe-BNcTitle: SiliconRepublic.com:  ‘Openness is not the enemy of quality,’ Wikipedia founder says - New Media .::. Size~: 40.91 KBNov 26 00:18
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another Failure of #DRM: EBooks http://www.teleread.org/2009/11/23/rise-in-piracy-one-more-reason-to-ditch-digital-rights-management/Nov 26 00:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Rise in e-book piracy: One more reason to DITCH Digital Rights Management | TeleRead: Bring the E-Books Home .::. Size~: 126.04 KBNov 26 00:26
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yuhongI think it is time to talk about the difference between design and normal patentsNov 26 00:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Nicaragua Moves Young Generation to #GNU #Linux http://leogg.wordpress.com/2009/11/24/20000-ubuntu-laptops-for-teachers-in-nicaragua/Nov 26 00:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 20,000 Ubuntu laptops for teachers in Nicaragua « [comuNIdad] .::. Size~: 33.94 KBNov 26 00:33
yuhonghttp://www.askwoody.com/2009/microsoft-fesses-stealing-code/Nov 26 00:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft fesses up to stealing code  @  AskWoody.com .::. Size~: 20.61 KBNov 26 00:33
yuhongBut definitely in the sense that the culture at Microsoft still – after all these years – still emphasizes exigency over fair play.Nov 26 00:34
yuhong"But definitely in the sense that the culture at Microsoft still – after all these years – still emphasizes exigency over fair play."Nov 26 00:34
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The Beginning of the End for #Microsoft, Due to #FreeSoftware http://whatwillweuse.com/2009/11/24/the-begining-of-the-end/Nov 26 00:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The begining of the end .::. Size~: 30.18 KBNov 26 00:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft 's Violation of the #GPL Still Lacking Remedy http://ur1.ca/gjqhNov 26 00:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft fails to open source Windows 7 USB tool - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 31.15 KBNov 26 00:36
yuhongPort 25's response: http://port25.technet.com/archive/2009/11/20/update-on-the-windows-7-usb-dvd-tool.aspxNov 26 00:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell VP "Drools" Over Proprietary Software That Advances #Windows http://www.itwire.com/content/view/29599/1090/Nov 26 00:38
schestowitzHey, yuhongNov 26 00:39
Ender2070sara ford made a comment on port25Nov 26 00:40
yuhongAfter another article on slashdot on another Google design patent, I think it is time to talk about the difference between design and normal patentsNov 26 00:40
yuhongHi.Nov 26 00:40
schestowitzMicrosoft employee.......Nov 26 00:40
Ender2070"Hi! I’m the Program Manager for CodePlex. The project was unpublished at the project owner's request. The owner can republish the project at any time.Let me know if you have any other questions about the site.Thanks,-sara"Nov 26 00:40
yuhongYep,  I noticed it too.Nov 26 00:41
Ender2070was also at pdc with miguelNov 26 00:41
schestowitzMicrosoft reunionNov 26 00:41
yuhongDid you get this quote from askwoody?Nov 26 00:42
yuhong"But definitely in the sense that the culture at Microsoft still – after all these years – still emphasizes exigency over fair play."Nov 26 00:42
schestowitzRendezvous of the charlatans Nov 26 00:42
yuhongI know.Nov 26 00:42
schestowitzManagers are the same thugsNov 26 00:42
schestowitzIncluding Steve SopranoNov 26 00:43
yuhongYep.Nov 26 00:43
yuhongAnd the funny thing about the "non-tested DOS warning code" MS introduced with QuickPascal in early 1989 is that I actually once ran some MS products from 1990 that had this code under Windows 2000's NTVDM, and I can tell you that it fails this test.Nov 26 00:47
yuhongOften it was hidden as many MS products from that era shipped with both DOS and OS/2 versions in one package (often in the same executable), and 2000 had an OS/2 subsystem as well.Nov 26 00:49
yuhongBut if you force it to run under NTVDM using FORCEDOS or tried to ran some of the real-mode only EXEs, like QBX in BASIC 7.1, you could see the message, and it could be annoying.Nov 26 00:50
yuhongAnd do you know what could be MS's most recent attempt to sabotage OEM dual-boot computers.Nov 26 00:59
yuhongMS changed the System Builder agreement to require Windows be installed using the OPK in 2005.Nov 26 01:00
yuhonghttp://oem.microsoft.com/public/sblicense/2008_sb_licenses/fy08_sb_license_english.pdfNov 26 01:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting application/pdf type .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 26 01:00
yuhongSome said it could be another attempt to sabotage OEM dual-boot computers.Nov 26 01:01
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Nicaragua is Moving to GNU/Linux for Independence [+refs] http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/25/nicaragua-schools-gnu-linux-fs/Nov 26 01:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Nicaragua is Moving to GNU/Linux for Independence | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 111.17 KBNov 26 01:12
schestowitzfewa: that video you gave is quite goodNov 26 01:23
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schestowitzHmmmmmmm..........Nov 26 01:40
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schestowitz<audio> doesn't show up in Firefox for me...Nov 26 01:41
bethlynnhi folksNov 26 01:41
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/25/sflc-audio-on-novell-deal/Nov 26 01:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Novell Ignored Staffs Own Advice Before Selling Out to Microsoft | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 107.81 KBNov 26 01:41
cubezzzopen solaris and fedora 11 don't play nice eitherNov 26 01:41
schestowitzDoes it work for anyone else?Nov 26 01:41
schestowitzHey, BethNov 26 01:41
schestowitzWhat's new?Nov 26 01:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell Ignored Staff’s Own Advice Before Selling Out to #Microsoft http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/25/sflc-audio-on-novell-deal/Nov 26 01:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Novell Ignored Staffs Own Advice Before Selling Out to Microsoft | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 107.81 KBNov 26 01:41
cubezzzbut that is just an oversightNov 26 01:41
schestowitzFirefox sometimes doesn't do the <audio> thing all rightNov 26 01:41
cubezzzthere are many combinations of software which don't work well togetherNov 26 01:41
schestowitzNo idea why......Nov 26 01:41
schestowitzBug maybe.Nov 26 01:41
bethlynnhappy thanksgiving to any americans in the houseNov 26 01:43
Ender2070im trying out firefox 3.7Nov 26 01:43
bethlynnthere's been over 400million firefox downloads since JuneNov 26 01:43
bethlynnI just found that out while doing research for a recent story, wow!Nov 26 01:44
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fewa<audio> has worked fine for meNov 26 01:45
fewabut it only support off vorbisNov 26 01:46
fewa*ogg vorbisNov 26 01:46
fewaand i believe .wavNov 26 01:46
_Hicham_what r u talking about fewa ?Nov 26 01:48
bethlynnhave you guys seen this? A documentary on how Microsoft killed netscape (not CodeRush) http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/technology_and_gaming/watch/v17693501fZywknDf#watch%3Dv17598850JAWt4YXENov 26 01:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Download: The True Story of The Internet - Browser Wars Part 2 | Free Tech & Gaming Videos - Watch Tech & Gaming Videos Online | Veoh .::. Size~: 126.27 KBNov 26 01:48
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cubezzzflash :-/Nov 26 01:52
cubezzzok, clipboarded over to another machineNov 26 01:55
cubezzzflash with ads .....Nov 26 01:56
bethlynnonce you are through the intro ad, that's itNov 26 01:57
bethlynnit would be funny if it was a windows 7 adNov 26 01:57
bethlynnbleed those suckers dryNov 26 01:57
cubezzzok, it's really discovery channelNov 26 01:57
cubezzzso it shouldn't be difficult to find a non-flash sourceNov 26 01:58
bethlynnyup, the discovery channel produced itNov 26 01:58
bethlynna place that won't get a take down?Nov 26 01:59
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cubezzzhahaNov 26 01:59
bethlynnI hate defective-by-design methods tooNov 26 01:59
bethlynnhi BalrogNov 26 01:59
cubezzzI'll find itNov 26 01:59
Balroghello bethlynn Nov 26 01:59
bethlynnthank you very much cubezzzNov 26 01:59
Balrogidk if you heard but Apple filed a patent infringement lawsuit concerning their AC adapter ... it's not about the magnetic connector though, rather the industrial design of the brick (this other company basically copied it)Nov 26 02:00
Balroga lot of the people on the forums are assuming it's about the magnetic connector, which is not accurateNov 26 02:00
bethlynnwhy? apple power bricks suckNov 26 02:00
Balrogif you're going to make a replacement, why make the physical size/shape identical???Nov 26 02:01
Balrog(physical design)Nov 26 02:01
cubezzzyou need a non-north american sourceNov 26 02:02
bethlynndo the connectors still fray?Nov 26 02:02
Balrogthe MacBook Air and MacBook connectors don'tNov 26 02:03
Balrogthey haven't updated the MacBook Pro charger connectors yet :(Nov 26 02:03
cubezzzhttp://torrents.thepiratebay.org/4317982/Discovery.Download.The.True.Story.of.the.Internet.1of4.Browser.W.4317982.TPB.torrentNov 26 02:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting application/x-bittorrent type .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 26 02:03
cubezzzsorry for taking so long :)Nov 26 02:03
bethlynnsorry, I should have specified that I prefer legal, or at least in the clear, video linksNov 26 02:04
schestowitz[01:43] <bethlynn> there's been over 400million firefox downloads since JuneNov 26 02:04
Balrogfraying connectors are usually caused by yanking the connector by the cable. I've seen this with other stuffNov 26 02:04
schestowitzHow many the Linux version? :-)Nov 26 02:04
schestowitzSame issue with OOo... we don't get countedNov 26 02:05
bethlynnI'd host it myself but I don't want a take-down fcc hasselNov 26 02:05
bethlynnhold on, looking for the link for RoyNov 26 02:05
schestowitzThanksNov 26 02:06
cubezzzhmm? ok, I'll host it thenNov 26 02:06
schestowitzI've bookmarked the Veoh video for viewing laterNov 26 02:06
schestowitzI'm just doing some posts at the momentNov 26 02:06
cubezzzI don't understand why a torrent is illegal but veoh is?Nov 26 02:07
cubezzzhaha, Gates looks like the Devil in thisNov 26 02:08
bethlynnhttp://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/stats/ < sadly it only talks about geo-diversityNov 26 02:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Firefox web browser | Real-Time Firefox Download Stats .::. Size~: 19.64 KBNov 26 02:10
schestowitzbethlynn: thanks, lookingNov 26 02:11
schestowitzHmmmm... it need JSNov 26 02:11
bethlynnwatch the market share grow http://downloadstats.mozilla.com/Nov 26 02:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Worldwide Real-Time Firefox Downloads .::. Size~: 3.79 KBNov 26 02:11
schestowitzAt least it's not FlashNov 26 02:11
cubezzzit's an interesting show, worth watchingNov 26 02:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Fans Still Spread Microsoft’s Lies Against #GNU #Linux http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/25/confirmed-lies-market-share-fud/Nov 26 02:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Fans Still Spread Microsofts Lies Against GNU/Linux | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 115.71 KBNov 26 02:12
cubezzzyeah Netscape got crunchedNov 26 02:17
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bethlynn_sorry, ie crashedNov 26 02:17
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cubezzz???Nov 26 02:17
*bethlynn_ is using Vista to understand the users' painNov 26 02:17
cubezzzit's really really bad :)Nov 26 02:18
cubezzzI like to be succinctNov 26 02:19
bethlynn_I have the badvista.org sticker on the machine to remind me how bad it isNov 26 02:22
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cubezzztry this instead:Nov 26 02:23
cubezzzhttp://xhgc18.blogspot.com/2008/09/discovery-channel-download-true-story.htmlNov 26 02:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Movies, Series, Docs, etc.: Discovery Channel - Download : The True Story of the Internet .::. Size~: 92.42 KBNov 26 02:23
bethlynnthanks, I will offer both optionsNov 26 02:25
bethlynnnot all folks know how to extract a .rarNov 26 02:25
cubezzzboth? So you changed your mind about Pirate Bay? :)Nov 26 02:26
cubezzzj/kNov 26 02:26
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] presto enabled upgrades is it possible? !fedoraNov 26 02:26
cubezzzrapidshare will probably be the fastest anywayNov 26 02:27
cubezzzI can remember before netscape, way beforeNov 26 02:29
cubezzzthere was viola and erwiseNov 26 02:29
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cubezzzviola might even predate mosiacNov 26 02:30
cubezzzI saw the original Next Computer at WaterlooNov 26 02:32
cubezzzin the late 1980'sNov 26 02:32
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cubezzzthey were playing Arkanoid on it :)Nov 26 02:33
bethlynnold article but it makes a good point about how difficult tracking firefox in Linux use is http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/06/28/firefox-3-download-day-made-possible-by-windows/Nov 26 02:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Firefox 3 download day made possible by Windows .::. Size~: 119.29 KBNov 26 02:34
cubezzzunfortunately a lot of good ideas and products got crunchedNov 26 02:34
cubezzzbut really we didn't have freedomNov 26 02:35
cubezzzprobably not until 1994Nov 26 02:35
bethlynnnext was Steve Jobs' babyNov 26 02:35
bethlynnApple will continue to be proprietary nonsense as long as he is aroundNov 26 02:36
bethlynnbut when he leaves, Apple will be an allyNov 26 02:36
cubezzzwell next computer wasn't using FOSS eitherNov 26 02:37
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cubezzzwe don't have 100% FOSS yet actuallyNov 26 02:38
bethlynnwell, the source for mach is available http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/mach/public/www/mach.htmlNov 26 02:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: CMU CS Project Mach Home Page .::. Size~: 3.55 KBNov 26 02:39
cubezzzbasically companies like Analog Devices make you sign a NDANov 26 02:39
bethlynnit depends on how you define fossNov 26 02:39
cubezzzso you can't show people documentation on the chipsNov 26 02:39
cubezzzdefine FOSS, for me is you have all the source code for everything and you can modify it at least for yourselfNov 26 02:40
cubezzzcall that FOSS level 1Nov 26 02:40
bethlynnwhat a blast from the past on the cmu web site "Many of these links point to very large tar files. Be careful what you press, it could crash your browser. If you are using Mosaic, you can use the  Load To Local Disk  button under the Options menu to download a tar file onto your machine."Nov 26 02:40
cubezzznot necessarily GPL, but you have the source code, or at least you have programming specifications for all your hardwareNov 26 02:41
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cubezzzso zaurus would fail my definitionNov 26 02:42
bethlynnwhat about droid?Nov 26 02:42
bethlynni'm sorry for flame baiting and bailing... too tired. goodnight everyoneNov 26 02:49
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cubezzzI don't know enough about it to even sayNov 26 02:49
cubezzzthere's probably binary blobs in there for it to work thoughNov 26 02:49
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cubezzzSD cards are also a problemNov 26 02:49
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cubezzzyeah, there's a ton of work to be done obviouslyNov 26 02:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Boycott #Google , Says #Microsoft to Publishers http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/25/microsoft-google-boycott/Nov 26 02:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Boycott Google, Says Microsoft to Publishers | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 113.38 KBNov 26 02:51
cubezzzI guess there's no discovery channel stuff on youtube thenNov 26 02:52
cubezzzoops, no it's there too :)Nov 26 02:53
DaemonFCschestowitz: I got a Comcast Radian6 reply againNov 26 02:56
DaemonFCMicrosoft is dumping 3 license packs of Office 2007 for $64Nov 26 03:05
cubezzzhold me back :)Nov 26 03:07
schestowitzDaemonFC: nice, pass the detailsNov 26 03:08
schestowitzOr publish themNov 26 03:08
schestowitzWe have no profile on those marketing scum yetNov 26 03:09
schestowitzI actually thought about them this morning cause I saw your blog post re COmcastNov 26 03:09
schestowitzI guess it was a matter of time until it blipped on their radarNov 26 03:09
cubezzzback in an hour or soNov 26 03:09
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DaemonFCschestowitz: Comcast initiates Operation Fuck Over The Subscribers 2010 as of the 10th of December B-)Nov 26 03:14
DaemonFCnothing like a head startNov 26 03:15
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ender2070are you sure you don't have these all the time? http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2009/11/18/bacon-mug-looks-delicious/Nov 26 03:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bacon Mug Looks Delicious! .::. Size~: 30.37 KBNov 26 03:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft May Have Failed to Comply With the #GNU #GPL (Again) http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/25/microsoft-lies-about-complying/Nov 26 03:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft May Have Failed to Comply With the GNU GPL (Again) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.91 KBNov 26 03:29
schestowitzDoes anyone mind helping with transcription?Nov 26 03:31
schestowitzCan anyone get the text from the ogg file?Nov 26 03:32
schestowitz"Dear Roy,Nov 26 03:32
schestowitz"Though you see no comments from me lately there is no day that I read boycottnovell. Just busy with four children, work, home and homework. I think you understand.Nov 26 03:32
schestowitz"Anyway, I always translate your articles  to Spanish and email them to teachers in my birth country Peru. We do have to protect freedom everywhere so that's my grain of sand.Nov 26 03:32
schestowitz"Today there was a nice ogg file about the convicted thug and its patents in Mosanto, the mosanto-patents.ogg. I wish I could have the transcript to translate it and send it to Peru.Nov 26 03:32
schestowitz"Please if do you have the transcript can you email it to me or publish it on the site so this group of peruvian teachers can benefit from it. No rush please, just enjoy your Thanksgiving and above all Thanks for Boycottnovell.Nov 26 03:32
schestowitz"Thank you very much and Happy Thanksgiving for you and everyone who makes your site possible.Nov 26 03:32
schestowitzwallclimber usually had time and will to do thisNov 26 03:32
schestowitzI'll ask when she's back...Nov 26 03:33
schestowitzDaemonFC: are you doing an expose about them?Nov 26 03:33
DaemonFCJust wrote about itNov 26 03:35
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schestowitzHahahaha!Nov 26 03:42
schestowitz"We_Can_Help@cable.comcast.com."Nov 26 03:42
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schestowitzObama "Yes we Can"Nov 26 03:43
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DaemonFCschestowitz: I was looking up brake checkingNov 26 03:54
DaemonFCI usually just gradually slow down and trap the guy behind me at 15 miles per hour for a whileNov 26 03:54
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*cubezzz wonders who uses mach kernelNov 26 04:10
DaemonFCI got a bunch of Lady Grey teaNov 26 04:12
DaemonFCit's not badNov 26 04:13
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Salivating Over #Silverlight http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/25/novl-salivating-over-silverlight/ #traitorNov 26 04:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Salivating Over Silverlight | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 113.03 KBNov 26 04:38
schestowitzDaemonFC: I gotta zzz, but if you have something on Radian666 [sic], that would be goodNov 26 04:39
oiaohmThanks schestowitz you just reminded me that I need to post a bug over plasmaNov 26 04:42
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvVp7b5gzqUNov 26 04:46
*Diablo-D3 has quit ("do coders dream of sheep()?")Nov 26 04:57
oiaohmDaemonFC:  Not as bad a telstra unless you know the combination you sitt on the phone being asked 50 question automatically.Nov 26 05:01
oiaohmNote the 50 questions take 30 mins before you even get qued.Nov 26 05:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] I rated a YouTube video (5 out of 5 stars) -- Phase 3 pt.7 (Imperialism - By War or Consensus) http://bit.ly/54fiORNov 26 05:02
oiaohmhttp://thepriorart.typepad.com/the_prior_art/2009/11/altitude-capital-partners-altitude-nines-v-deep-nines.html  Nice example of patent black hole.Nov 26 05:05
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Prior Art: Patent Litigation Weekly:  How to win $25 million in a patent suit—and end up with a whole lot less .::. Size~: 46.01 KBNov 26 05:05
oiaohmLawyersNov 26 05:05
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fewa Nov 26 06:03
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] "Giving up the GIMP is a sign of Ubuntu's mainstream maturity" http://bit.ly/7wX5Jl - Well put coherent article.Nov 26 06:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Giving up the GIMP is a sign of Ubuntu's mainstream maturity .::. Size~: 42.52 KBNov 26 06:47
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] What patents can do in a developing world ,how monsanto seed patents hurts the badly farmers must watch #video http://tinyurl.com/yfwngpcNov 26 06:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Explanation of What Bill Gates Patent Investments Do to Developing World | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 109.79 KBNov 26 06:56
DaemonFChttp://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/11/microsoft-issues-take-down-notices-over-spilled-cofee.arsNov 26 06:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft issues takedown notices over spilled COFEE .::. Size~: 33.92 KBNov 26 06:59
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Just finished listening to software freedom law show http://tinyurl.com/ybpynuy - jeremy allison of the samba team #niceNov 26 07:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Episode 0x1B: Jeremy Allison of the Samba Team - Software Freedom Law Show - Software Freedom Law Center .::. Size~: 12.34 KBNov 26 07:01
DaemonFChttp://izanbardprince.wordpress.com/2009/11/26/microsoft-leaks-tool-that-lets-law-enforcement-turn-off-your-hard-disk-encryption-clear-your-passwords-and-scoop-up-batches-of-evidence/Nov 26 07:18
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft leaks tool that lets law enforcement turn off your hard disk encryption, clear your passwords, and scoop up batches of evidence. « Ryans Blog .::. Size~: 32.81 KBNov 26 07:18
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] RT @UKComedyNews The flat used in 'The Young Ones' is available to rent. Estate agent listing: http://bit.ly/5I5pVbNov 26 07:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Kendall Harper - full details .::. Size~: 2.24 KBNov 26 07:58
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DaemonFCI love Operation RepoNov 26 08:28
DaemonFChttp://www.trutv.com/video/shows/operation-repo.htmlNov 26 08:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Operation Repo on truTV.com .::. Size~: 18.52 KBNov 26 08:28
DaemonFC:)Nov 26 08:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] a couple of days on, and central heating is officially funNov 26 08:30
DaemonFCI prefer electric heatNov 26 08:30
DaemonFCgas costs a fortune compared to the electric radiators on the wallsNov 26 08:31
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DaemonFChttp://www.opera.com/browser/next/Nov 26 08:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Opera Web Browser | Faster & safer | Download the new Internet browsers free .::. Size~: 9.83 KBNov 26 08:44
DaemonFCOpera 10.2 Alpha is outNov 26 08:44
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tessierGroklaw's latest is a nice smoking gun.Nov 26 08:52
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Tim Berners Lee in the European Parliament next Tue about smashing the patent parasites: "One Web, free and open for all" http://i5.be/VoNov 26 09:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Push for more monopolies and patent litigation in Europe for more growth and jobs in the patent industry: http://i5.be/VpNov 26 09:35
schestowitzhttp://daggle.com/newspapers-stores-visitors-worthless-1519Nov 26 10:50
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schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY8MKLNL-m4Nov 26 11:09
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schestowitzhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8379960.stmNov 26 11:12
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schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/11/25/iraq-comes-to-youtubeNov 26 11:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Iraq Comes to YouTube | WebProNews .::. Size~: 35.19 KBNov 26 11:14
schestowitzProsecutors Press Case Against Google in Italy  < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/26/technology/companies/26video.html?_r=1 >Nov 26 11:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The New York Times > Log In .::. Size~: 9.72 KBNov 26 11:15
schestowitzhttp://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/bentley/department-of-justice-other-agencies-focus-on-fighting-fraud/?cs=37729Nov 26 11:17
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schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/26/google_new_look_test_november_09/Nov 26 11:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Google flirts with new-look home page • The Register .::. Size~: 28.74 KBNov 26 11:24
schestowitzhttp://ostatic.com/blog/k-desktop-environment-is-dead-long-live-kdeNov 26 11:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  K Desktop Environment is Dead: Long Live KDE  .::. Size~: 44.22 KBNov 26 11:28
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schestowitztessier: BN has already covered these memosNov 26 11:34
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*zer0c00l has just screwed up the telephonic interview Nov 26 11:43
zer0c00l:PNov 26 11:43
oiaohmCould have been worse zer0c00lNov 26 11:50
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schestowitzApple fans afraid of Google Chrome OS? http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/11/25/ars-jon-stokes-hails-chrome-os-as-the-second-coming-of-the-pc/Nov 26 12:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle:   Ars Jon Stokes hails Chrome OS as the second coming of the PC  RoughlyDrafted Magazine .::. Size~: 64.95 KBNov 26 12:16
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MinceRthey have every reason to -- it's a dumb os that's hyped a lot ;)Nov 26 12:22
MinceRso it's fully on macos' turfNov 26 12:22
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oiaohmBiggest question with chrome OS is if it will have a web cache.   If it does then it will be interesting.Nov 26 12:32
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MinceRthe cache of the browser?Nov 26 12:34
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ThistleWeboiaohm: an even bigger question will be "can it install other apps?"Nov 26 12:34
oiaohmThistleWeb: its the same question.Nov 26 12:34
oiaohmOne of the chrome browser ideas was the offline usable web application.Nov 26 12:35
oiaohmUsing the web cache.Nov 26 12:35
ThistleWebhmmm, here I though cache and apps were different, my badNov 26 12:35
MinceRperhaps they'll combine google gears with the native code plugin and reinvent the locally installed native application :>Nov 26 12:35
ThistleWebI can't think of anything worse than the entire OS data mining you and not allowing you any escape to non-google appsNov 26 12:35
oiaohmchrome os does not stop other web apps from working. even allows you to put the url up as a applicaiton tab.  Big thing is will it or will it not have a web cache allowing off line operation.Nov 26 12:37
ThistleWebweb apps != appsNov 26 12:37
MinceRthere are worse things than that -- say, allowing the owner of the platform control your machineNov 26 12:37
MinceRvia invisibly pushed updates, backdoors and killswitchesNov 26 12:37
ThistleWebMinceR: true, aren't google forcing updates?Nov 26 12:37
MinceRdunnoNov 26 12:37
oiaohmandroid yes.Nov 26 12:37
MinceRi know m$ has done such things.Nov 26 12:38
ThistleWebI thought that was part of the plan to keep it secure, that they can refresh it anytime they likeNov 26 12:38
ThistleWebwith any changes they see fitNov 26 12:38
oiaohmEven if a platform allows apps ie iphone those can still have auto forced out updates.Nov 26 12:38
ThistleWebso any hacks you find to keep google's greasy mitts away from data mining your stuff can be "fixed" Apple style with an enforced updateNov 26 12:39
ThistleWebI could be wrongNov 26 12:39
oiaohmAt least with web apps you still have the option of running your own web server hosting your own apps.Nov 26 12:39
ThistleWebit's still an early look, which may changeNov 26 12:39
oiaohmSo removing remote updating on you.Nov 26 12:39
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oiaohmNow the key question is the web  cache.Nov 26 12:40
ThistleWebthey may bring in stuff to address this type of issue later on in the dev cycleNov 26 12:40
oiaohmWho ever controls the update system can data mine if they really wish to.Nov 26 12:41
ThistleWebgoogle are VERY focussed on data miningNov 26 12:44
oiaohmChrome OS is not exactly a dumb idea.  Create a core of OS that all bar the update system for the core nothing else touches.  Now if all data is stored in webcache that is also simple to clear. To get equal to a clean reinstall.Nov 26 12:44
ThistleWebeverything they do revolves around itNov 26 12:44
oiaohmTo data mine cloud storage and tracking cookies and the like works anyhow ThistleWebNov 26 12:45
ThistleWebit's how they offer their stuff free of charge to useNov 26 12:45
MinceRafaik the other "instant-on" systems work better than chrome osNov 26 12:46
oiaohmOf course adveristing revenue.Nov 26 12:46
ThistleWebyour currency is that your stuff is data mined and adverts shoved at youNov 26 12:46
MinceRthey boot faster and they do moreNov 26 12:46
kecskebakMinceR: You're talking about a BBC Micro there aren't you ;)Nov 26 12:47
MinceRno, i'm talking about SplashTop and HyperSpaceNov 26 12:47
MinceRi think they're closer to what chrome os does than full-featured desktop distrosNov 26 12:48
ThistleWebchromos is interesting and great for a lot of casual users, I won't be touching it howeverNov 26 12:49
oiaohmIf chrome os does not have a offline mode it will be dead man walking.Nov 26 12:50
oiaohmThere are suspend image stunts that could get chrome os down to 1 sec.Nov 26 12:50
oiaohmAnd direct mapped into memory stunts as well.Nov 26 12:51
oiaohm7 seconds without using stunts is not the greatest but its not exactly shockly bad.Nov 26 12:51
*popey notes it's not even finished yetNov 26 12:51
popeyand will get more speedups as a result of work ubuntu is doingNov 26 12:52
oiaohmDon't over look the disc io changes coming to 2.6.32 kernel either popeyNov 26 12:52
oiaohmDisc io is one of the biggest lag causes in current boot ups.Nov 26 12:53
popeyyeah, looks promisingNov 26 12:53
oiaohmJust the disc io could see chrome OS under 5 secNov 26 12:53
oiaohmMost don't get why suspend to ram is bad from a secuirty point of viewNov 26 12:55
schestowitzGoogle showed something very early cause of PDC....Nov 26 12:55
schestowitzIt'll improve, there's lots of timeNov 26 12:55
schestowitzRemember Android 1.0Nov 26 12:55
schestowitzIt wasn't until 1.5 or 1.6 that it got extremely popularNov 26 12:55
oiaohmAndroid 1.0 was known to crash the unstable bit of work.Nov 26 12:56
*schestowitz removes channel operator status from schestowitzNov 26 12:56
schestowitzBruce is at it again.... http://itmanagement.earthweb.com//article.php/3849976 This headline is well over the top. To suggest that _everyone_ *hates* Ubuntu is simply incorrect. It's neither everyone nor a case of hate.Nov 26 12:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Why Does Everyone Hate Ubuntu? &mdash; Datamation.com .::. Size~: 72.03 KBNov 26 12:58
schestowitzI bet James changed the headline as usual, to provokeNov 26 12:58
oiaohmLot of people hate Ubuntu.Nov 26 12:59
oiaohmMost recent one was kdevelop developers.Nov 26 12:59
oiaohmfor Ubuntu including beta5 of it on kubuntu and not the stable version.Nov 26 13:00
oiaohmUbuntu maintainers really need to be pulled into line.Nov 26 13:00
popeyI'd not seen the kdevelop rant before, but then I don't follow the kde/kubuntu community muchNov 26 13:13
popeyseems a vaugely valid argument, but it might be nice if they y'know release sometimeNov 26 13:14
oiaohmhttp://apaku.wordpress.com/2009/11/10/dont-install-ubuntu-9-10-if-you-want-a-stable-kdevelop/  Read popeyNov 26 13:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Dont install Ubuntu 9.10 if you want a stable KDevelop « apaku .::. Size~: 78 KBNov 26 13:22
popeyyeah, i just read itNov 26 13:22
schestowitzhttp://www.olpcnews.com/laptops/xo1/donate_your_unloved_xo_laptops.htmlNov 26 13:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Donate Your Unloved XO Laptops to Lubuto Library - OLPC News .::. Size~: 67.82 KBNov 26 13:24
oiaohmThose are real developers on the projects popeyNov 26 13:24
oiaohmI have been on ubuntu maintainers recieving end with wine.Nov 26 13:24
schestowitzoiaohm: pulseaudio too (annoyed at Ubuntu)Nov 26 13:25
oiaohmAttempting to backport patches in wine is insanity.Nov 26 13:25
oiaohmNo developer in even wine core list of developers have skill even todo that.Nov 26 13:25
schestowitzBut all in all, I think many KDE people resent Ubuntu because it made KDE less widely usedNov 26 13:26
oiaohmThere is project after project sick of Ubuntu maintainers.Nov 26 13:26
oiaohmGnome KDE XFCE it don't matter what desktop.Nov 26 13:26
kecskebakThis is interesting - I understand why Mark Shuttleworth was trying to persuade upstream apps to go for six month of 12 month release cycles now.Nov 26 13:27
kecskebakI didn't really understand why he was stressing it so much before.Nov 26 13:28
oiaohmEven when projects do Ubuntu maintainers don't leave the code alone kecskebakNov 26 13:28
oiaohmSo causing problems for upstream.Nov 26 13:28
kecskebakWhat sort of things do Ubuntu maintainers do?Nov 26 13:28
oiaohmNew version is released with patched they back port some of the patches and don't run the latter provided test cases that show opps program is now broken massively then ships it out to end users.Nov 26 13:29
oiaohmSo poor projects get stack of bugs that should not exist.  Even worse they don't update the version numbers to reflect that they have been tampering.Nov 26 13:30
kecskebakI actually went to using an Ubuntu alpha so that I could get a working WINE once, now I understand why.Nov 26 13:30
popeydo you have more examples of that?Nov 26 13:30
popeyubuntu users generally file their bugs in launchpad, not upstreamNov 26 13:31
oiaohmBack port of pulseaudio patches.Nov 26 13:31
oiaohmpopey: Nov 26 13:31
popeypulseaudio is a special case :)Nov 26 13:31
oiaohmIn wineNov 26 13:31
popeycanonical have a wine maintainer, scottNov 26 13:31
oiaohmwine test suite would not run the audio section at all.Nov 26 13:31
oiaohmHad to battle for 2 years to get a sane maintainer put in place.Nov 26 13:31
kecskebakYes, I remember - even looking at the audio setup tab would cause Wine to crash.Nov 26 13:32
oiaohmThis is repeated over and over again popeyNov 26 13:32
popeywell, thats why I'm asking for examplesNov 26 13:32
oiaohmThere is no auditor who job is to investage and remove bad maintainers at ubuntu.Nov 26 13:33
oiaohmAll you can do is hope the bad one quits.Nov 26 13:33
popeythats not true, if someone does something wrong, you can raise it with the team they're inNov 26 13:33
oiaohmDone.Nov 26 13:33
oiaohmDoes not work.Nov 26 13:33
popeywhere was that done?Nov 26 13:34
oiaohmClassic recent on wine is naming development version of wine 1.2 causing hell load of confusion in wine support thinking wine 1.2 is not releasedNov 26 13:34
oiaohmNice way to screw up tracking.  Create fake version numbers.  This was last 12 months popeyNov 26 13:35
oiaohmFormal request of reverse of that has been done.  No change so far popeyNov 26 13:35
popeywhere?Nov 26 13:36
oiaohmThat was Ubuntu again popeyNov 26 13:36
popeyno, where was it raisedNov 26 13:36
popeythe formal request you mentionedNov 26 13:37
oiaohmThat was done by scott internally.  popey.   Nov 26 13:38
oiaohmLot of particular things should not be going on.Nov 26 13:38
oiaohmWhat is happing to wine kdevelop...  Is basically a large percentage of Ubuntu maintainers and disk designers.Nov 26 13:39
popeythe "formal request" was sent by scott?Nov 26 13:39
oiaohmYep popeyNov 26 13:39
popeywell, so far I've seen only two examples, kdevelop and wineNov 26 13:39
oiaohmWe have tried everything else in the past with no effect popeyNov 26 13:39
oiaohmdid you not read the first post there popeyNov 26 13:40
popey"there"?Nov 26 13:40
oiaohmdigikam also suffering from the same problem Nov 26 13:40
oiaohmThe kdevelop one popeyNov 26 13:40
popeyyes, i didNov 26 13:40
oiaohmThe more you dig the more you will find.Nov 26 13:40
oiaohmEven pulseaudio has compained at Ubuntu at times for backporting instead of version updating.Nov 26 13:41
popeywhere "pulseaudio" = "lennart"Nov 26 13:41
oiaohmYep popeyNov 26 13:41
popeywho has in the past made lots of complaints at ubuntuNov 26 13:41
popeysome/many of which are unfounded/inflammatory/unnecessaryNov 26 13:41
oiaohmAlso project lead pulseaudioNov 26 13:41
popeyAIUI he is reigning that inNov 26 13:42
popeyyes, being project lead doesn't give him carte blanche to be a dickNov 26 13:42
popeysame for anyoneNov 26 13:42
oiaohmProject lead does mean you should have final say if patches back porting is sane.Nov 26 13:42
oiaohmUbuntu maintainers don't bother asking.Nov 26 13:43
popeyi dont believe that Nov 26 13:43
oiaohmFedora mandriva suse maintainers if back porting patches will ask if its sane.Nov 26 13:43
popeyI dont believe that the project lead should have final sayNov 26 13:43
popeypeople probably didnt ask lennart because he was utterly unapproachableNov 26 13:43
oiaohmJust in case there is something the project lead knows is important.Nov 26 13:43
popeyI've filed bugs in pulse and been told not to waste lennarts timeNov 26 13:43
oiaohmThey don't ask wine developers either or kdevelopers or anyone.Nov 26 13:44
popeyI dont think they shouldNov 26 13:44
oiaohmSo applying patches solo is sane? popeyNov 26 13:44
popeythere should of course be open channels of communication between distros and projectsNov 26 13:44
popeyif the patches are sane in the distro, yesNov 26 13:44
oiaohmNO.Nov 26 13:45
popeywell, we disagree thenNov 26 13:45
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oiaohmFedora that was one of the most unstable two people must sign off on a patch popeyNov 26 13:45
oiaohmNo one is allowed solo.Nov 26 13:45
oiaohmSolo increases risk of human error popeyNov 26 13:46
popeythat process isnt perfectNov 26 13:46
oiaohmSo distribution instablity.Nov 26 13:46
popeysee recent controversy and back peddling from fedora as an exampleNov 26 13:46
oiaohmAlso they require refering to upstream for advice.Nov 26 13:46
popeythat was signed off by multiple peopleNov 26 13:46
popeystill got it "wrong"Nov 26 13:46
oiaohmIt can go wrong but less often popeyNov 26 13:46
popeystill goes wrongNov 26 13:46
popeyno process is perfectNov 26 13:46
oiaohmNo where near the same rare popeyNov 26 13:47
kecskebakIf I'd worked very hard on app X, only for it to get a bad reputation from bad patches in distro Y I'd be very upset. Surely it's good manners to ask?Nov 26 13:47
popeyand on the whole Ubuntu gets it right most of the timeNov 26 13:47
oiaohmLOL popeyNov 26 13:47
popeykecskebak: if the relationship is good, yesNov 26 13:47
oiaohmOn the hole Ubuntu is getting it wrong at a far worse rate.Nov 26 13:47
popeyif the upstream are unapproachable then its hardNov 26 13:47
popeyagain we agree to disagree oiaohm Nov 26 13:47
oiaohmReally that is what I find wrong.Nov 26 13:48
oiaohmLot of projects I know upstream have been approachable.Nov 26 13:48
oiaohmLike wine audio developers worked with fedora to provide a kind of stable pulseaudio patch.Nov 26 13:48
popeywell if there are issues with upstream relationships then Jorge Castro is the guy to talk toNov 26 13:48
popeythats his jobNov 26 13:48
oiaohmBiggest thing is the idea that ubuntu maintainers can disreguard advice of upstream.Nov 26 13:49
*popey goes to do some workNov 26 13:49
oiaohmupstream tells you something is insane todo it pays not to do it.Nov 26 13:50
ThistleWeboiaohm: don't you think a better and more positiva approach would be to join the ubuntu forums and submit your ideas, rather than blasting any ubuntu member who pokes their head into the channel?Nov 26 13:50
oiaohmThistleWeb:  done that in the past.  Nov 26 13:50
oiaohmDoes not get results either ThistleWebNov 26 13:51
ThistleWebso they don't jump to implement your ideasNov 26 13:51
ThistleWebor they disagree with your solutionsNov 26 13:51
oiaohmMore just ingnore it and hope it goes away.Nov 26 13:51
ThistleWebwill jumping on ubuntu members in here change that?Nov 26 13:51
oiaohmOr say that the upstream has no right to veto particular patches because some how Ubuntu maintainers are god.Nov 26 13:52
popeynobody said that oiaohm Nov 26 13:52
ThistleWebsometimes ideas are better explained in a single easy to read post where it's all thought out, than a conversationNov 26 13:52
oiaohmThey have popey.Nov 26 13:53
popeynobody said that _here_Nov 26 13:53
popeybored nowNov 26 13:53
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oiaohmJorge Castro is kinda there scape goat too.  He does not have the power to dismiss miss behaving maintaioners causing hell for upstream.Nov 26 13:54
ThistleWebprojects also have a limited number of resources to work with tooNov 26 13:55
kecskebakoiaohm You would prefer rolling distros then?Nov 26 13:55
oiaohmParticular items due to there complexity and stablity should be rolling version updates.Nov 26 13:55
kecskebakAre six month releases a marketing thing in your view?Nov 26 13:56
oiaohmDon't really care if ubuntu wants to do 6 month or not.Nov 26 13:56
oiaohmShipping unstable versions of programs and not providing users with stable option is asking for user pain.Nov 26 13:57
oiaohmI have no problems with a distribution wanting to provide beta versions.   As long as it not cutting off access to stable versions.Nov 26 13:58
ThistleWeboiaohm: you're clearly a dev, with opinions on how things should be, so why don't you help out?Nov 26 13:58
oiaohmI am not a dev a such project manager.Nov 26 13:59
oiaohmEverything is really common sence.Nov 26 13:59
oiaohmDo particular things will make the upstream live harder.Nov 26 13:59
ThistleWebthat's why I don't suggest dev solutions......as I'm not a devNov 26 14:00
ThistleWebI specially don't pounce on members of a project when my dev ideas have been ignored to give them the benefit of my ignored non-dev advice to a dev issueNov 26 14:01
ThistleWebbut that's just meNov 26 14:02
ThistleWebsuggestions are great, but not everyone agrees with them, and often peeps with knowledge of actually implementing them may have very logical reasons for rejecting themNov 26 14:02
oiaohmThe sad part is Ubuntu is coping Fedora 4 years ago ThistleWebNov 26 14:02
oiaohmFedora grew up.Nov 26 14:03
ThistleWebit's their decision to makeNov 26 14:03
oiaohmhttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Staying_close_to_upstream_projects  One of the best writen policys I have ever found on the topic.Nov 26 14:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Staying close to upstream projects - FedoraProject .::. Size~: 26.05 KBNov 26 14:03
oiaohmThen you read ubuntus.  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-March/000550.htmlNov 26 14:05
oiaohmMost particularly.  Nov 26 14:05
oiaohmThe upstream developers must be '''willing to work with Ubuntu'''. ANov 26 14:05
oiaohm   responsive upstream who understands Ubuntu's requirements and isNov 26 14:05
oiaohm   willing to work within them can make things very much easier for us.Nov 26 14:05
oiaohmBig bad loop hole.  All a Ubuntu maintainer has to do is claim that upstream is un willing and they don't have to even try to work with upstream.Nov 26 14:06
ThistleWebdo you believe ubuntu peeps are isolated from the rest of the FOSS world?Nov 26 14:07
oiaohmThey are making themselves that way by there policies.Nov 26 14:07
oiaohmLike what right to they have to expect a upstream to have to answer to there wims.Nov 26 14:07
ThistleWebI mean that do ubuntu peeps have all the other projects blocked in their hosts files?Nov 26 14:07
ThistleWebdo they not speak to others?Nov 26 14:07
oiaohmupstream has to answer to everyone using the program.Nov 26 14:07
ThistleWebdo they not see the mistakes others have made?Nov 26 14:08
oiaohmNo distributions does.Nov 26 14:08
ThistleWebdo they see those mistakes and make them too?Nov 26 14:08
oiaohmEarly MandrivaNov 26 14:08
oiaohmmade the same mistake.sNov 26 14:08
oiaohmearly SUSE same mistakes.Nov 26 14:08
ThistleWebeveryone makes mistakesNov 26 14:08
oiaohmNo one learns from history.Nov 26 14:08
oiaohmThe same mistakes ThistleWebNov 26 14:08
ThistleWebahh, kNov 26 14:09
oiaohmMistake number 1.  Upstream has to bow to me.Nov 26 14:09
schestowitzNot sure it's fair to assume that Ubuntu does thatNov 26 14:09
oiaohmYou have to work with upstream.   Upstream never has to bow to you.Nov 26 14:09
schestowitzI also think that popey was offended by this presumptionNov 26 14:09
oiaohmIts in there policys for upstream schestowitzNov 26 14:09
oiaohmAnd many of there maintainers follow it.Nov 26 14:09
oiaohmDue to wine refusal to include pulseaudio patches then Ubuntu maintainer could alter what ever he liked without oversite and beinside there upstream rules.Nov 26 14:10
oiaohmProblem is its not presumption.Nov 26 14:11
oiaohmit must be straightforward to run those tests on the actual packages proposed for deployment to Ubuntu users. << second loop holeNov 26 14:12
oiaohmWho defines what is straightforward to run the unit tests.Nov 26 14:13
schestowitzhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8380607.stm LSE.NET fails again. They need to hurry up moving to Linux.......Nov 26 14:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 93.38 KBNov 26 14:13
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/nov/25/google-chrome-cloud-computing 'Balanced' Microsoft Jack.... just can't find the quotes in favour of the O/S...... lies by selection?Nov 26 14:13
oiaohmBasically every time Ubuntu as written a upstream policy they have stuffed key things up.Nov 26 14:15
ThistleWebschestowitz: I noticed that story earlier, it didnt say windows or linux, I assumed they'd already switched and this was a minor glitch in the new setupNov 26 14:16
schestowitzAnother Linux deployment: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/11/25/ps3_supercomputer/Nov 26 14:18
phIRCe-BNcTitle: US Air Force orders 2200 Sony PS3s • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 19.4 KBNov 26 14:18
schestowitzThistleWeb: no, not yetNov 26 14:18
schestowitzAlso in the news:http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/networking/messaging/news/index.cfm?newsid=17751Nov 26 14:18
phIRCe-BNcTitle: London Stock Exchange takes £20m hit on almost redundant TradElect platform - Messaging - ComputerworldUK .::. Size~: 84.88 KBNov 26 14:18
schestowitz"Profits at the stock exchange tumbled for the six months by 37 percent to £79 million. The exchange reiterated that it hopes an ongoing cost cutting exercise and management restructure will save it over £11 million a year. "Nov 26 14:19
schestowitz"It is due to be replaced at the end of next year by an open source based platform built by MillenniumIT, which the LSE acquired in September for £18 million. "Nov 26 14:19
schestowitzThey have too much spare hardwareNov 26 14:19
schestowitz'secret' to keeping Windows up..... have two entire clusters... redundancy...Nov 26 14:19
schestowitzOne never usedNov 26 14:19
oiaohmHmm wonder if US is stocking up on cell processors Nov 26 14:19
schestowitzWhat a jokeNov 26 14:20
schestowitzAnd it doesn't even workNov 26 14:20
schestowitzDowntime that's major once in 6 monthsNov 26 14:20
kecskebakI wonder what crashed at the BBC - http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/nov/25/bbc-news-pre-digital-ageNov 26 14:20
schestowitzhttp://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/big-demand-delays-nokia-n900-launch-654034Nov 26 14:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Big demand delays Nokia N900 launch | News | TechRadar UK .::. Size~: 53.38 KBNov 26 14:21
schestowitz'A BBC spokesperson said: "We are currently experiencing serious IT problems at the BBC which is causing some disruption to our phone and computer systems. We are working with contractors to rectify this."'Nov 26 14:22
schestowitzDid they try to reboot?Nov 26 14:22
schestowitzReinstall?Nov 26 14:22
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schestowitz"Nick BURNS... your company's computer guy!"Nov 26 14:23
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kecskebakI've heard the BBC disruption may be due to a power cut caused by a dodgy electricity substationNov 26 14:27
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schestowitzRe: Microsoft Jack on Nov 26 14:31
schestowitz>> Is Google Chrome OS cloud computing's silver lining?Nov 26 14:31
schestowitz> Nov 26 14:31
schestowitz> "Historically, the omens aren't good. In the mid-90s, Oracle's boss,Nov 26 14:31
schestowitz> Larry Ellison, got a huge amount of publicity for simplified "networkNov 26 14:31
schestowitz> computers", but they flopped"Nov 26 14:31
schestowitz> Nov 26 14:31
schestowitz> We know what steps MS took to help the emerging NC netPC, tried toNov 26 14:31
schestowitz> kill it and then bring out their own spec .. see the come docs :)Nov 26 14:31
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satiperaLSE goes down again http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8380607.stmNov 26 14:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 94.15 KBNov 26 14:39
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sebsebsebhiNov 26 14:41
schestowitzfewa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5ju0Xn6xscNov 26 15:09
schestowitzI'm in Dutch news......... "Roy Schestowitz van de blog Boycott Novell noemt TPM-ondersteuning in openSUSE dan ook een antifeature." http://webwereld.nl/nieuws/64413/omstreden-trusted-computing-nu-op-linux.htmlNov 26 15:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Omstreden Trusted Computing nu op Linux | Webwereld .::. Size~: 52.93 KBNov 26 15:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] This would be after inflating their numbers for 10 years, so we come full circle then? http://tinyurl.com/ybhek7mNov 26 15:25
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zer0c00lhttp://torrentfreak.com/30000-internet-users-to-receive-file-sharing-cash-demands-091125/Nov 26 16:08
phIRCe-BNcTitle:    30,000 Internet Users to Receive File-Sharing Cash Demands  | TorrentFreak   .::. Size~: 103.22 KBNov 26 16:08
zer0c00lIs this true? any one received letters?Nov 26 16:08
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schestowitzI don't download MAFIAA-contaminated stuffNov 26 16:12
schestowitzThey probably will hit the Joes and Janes who don't even know about the law (or care)Nov 26 16:12
*schestowitz listens to free music from SXSW09 at the moment... ("Vamos Esta Noite by Cla on SXSW 2009 Showcasing Artists"Nov 26 16:13
trmancothat is PortugueseNov 26 16:15
trmanco:)Nov 26 16:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] at last I've found the identi.ca plugin functionality to Pidgin :-[Nov 26 16:15
MinceRhttp://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-sap-is-sap.htmlNov 26 16:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: open...: Why SAP is a Sap .::. Size~: 101.25 KBNov 26 16:16
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schestowitztrmanco: do you know the song?Nov 26 16:22
trmancoI know the bandNov 26 16:23
schestowitzI didn't know it was Portuguese even?Nov 26 16:23
trmancobut I'm net really a big fan of portuguese musicNov 26 16:23
schestowitzBut it didn't quite sound like anything I'm used to from sambaNov 26 16:23
trmancoI may be mistakenNov 26 16:23
trmancolet me checkNov 26 16:23
trmancosamba is more from brasilNov 26 16:23
schestowitzAmarok said it has played over 250 timesNov 26 16:23
trmancohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cl%A3Nov 26 16:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: CL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 25.95 KBNov 26 16:24
schestowitzYou don't like samba?Nov 26 16:24
schestowitzIt's better than Britney TimglerraNov 26 16:24
trmancoyeah, sometimesNov 26 16:24
trmanconeatNov 26 16:26
trmancoCL%A3Nov 26 16:26
trmancoLOLNov 26 16:26
trmancohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoimbraNov 26 16:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Coimbra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 124.82 KBNov 26 16:28
trmancothereNov 26 16:28
trmanco:)Nov 26 16:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Advice for New PC This #Thanksgiving : Also Consider #GNU #Linux http://blogs.pcmag.com/miller/2009/11/buying_a_pc_some_simple_advice.phpNov 26 16:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Buying a PC:  Some Simple Advice - Forward Thinking by Michael J. Miller .::. Size~: 45.93 KBNov 26 16:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] US Air Force Chooses #GNU #Linux for Computational #Servers http://ur1.ca/gl31 http://ur1.ca/gl33Nov 26 16:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: US Air Force orders 2200 Sony PS3s • Register Hardware .::. Size~: 19.4 KBNov 26 16:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: U.S. Military building PS3 supercomputer, News from GamePro .::. Size~: 64.91 KBNov 26 16:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Audiocasts About #GNU #Linux : Tuxradar, Linux Outlaws http://ur1.ca/gl35 http://ur1.ca/gjq8Nov 26 16:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Podcast Season 1 Episode 22 | TuxRadar Linux .::. Size~: 24.46 KBNov 26 16:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Linux Outlaws 123 - Simple Doesn't Equal Shit | Linux Outlaws .::. Size~: 19.81 KBNov 26 16:32
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Deep Look at #Linux 2.6.32 and Its Phenomenal Growth Rate http://ur1.ca/gl3a http://ur1.ca/gl3bNov 26 16:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Getting to the Heart of the Linux Kernel - Community - ComputerworldUK .::. Size~: 80.3 KBNov 26 16:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Kernel Log: Coming in 2.6.32 (Part 4) - Drivers - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 113.15 KBNov 26 16:34
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schestowitztrmanco: thanksNov 26 16:37
schestowitzJust caught upNov 26 16:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google 's #ChromeOS (Linux) Finds New Fans, Misconceptions Addressed http://ur1.ca/gl3h http://ur1.ca/gl3iNov 26 16:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: MediaPost Publications Engadget Hearts Chrome OS  11/25/2009 .::. Size~: 62.29 KBNov 26 16:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Five things Chrome OS isn't  - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 136.47 KBNov 26 16:37
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SMILE for #GNU #Linux Introduced http://stephencuyos.com/?p=1661Nov 26 16:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Create Video Slideshows in Linux with SMILE | Fr. Stephen Cuyos, MSC .::. Size~: 33.77 KBNov 26 16:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Gentoo Foundation Opens to Voting http://www.gentoo.org/news/20091125-foundation-ad-vote-announcement.xmlNov 26 16:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 26 16:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KDE #Karbon #VectorGraphics Now in #KOffice http://ur1.ca/gl3v #kde4Nov 26 16:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Spatial Desktop: One Script, Ultimate Minimalist Desktop http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/11/spatial-desktop-ubuntu-gorgeous-gnome.htmlNov 26 16:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle: OMG! UBUNTU!: Spatial Desktop: One Script, Ultimate Minimalist Desktop .::. Size~: 96.82 KBNov 26 16:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat Executives Required Bigger Role in the Company http://www.newsobserver.com/business/local_state/story/210496.htmlNov 26 16:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Red Hat increases stock-ownership rules for executives - Local/State - NewsObserver.com .::. Size~: 69.39 KBNov 26 16:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mandrake Founder Releases OVD 2.0 http://press-releases.techwhack.com/43512-ulteoNov 26 16:45
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 26 16:45
zer0c00lschestowitz: The seed patents video was good, watched it this morning ;)Nov 26 16:45
zer0c00lschestowitz: Did you listen to that software freedom law center podcast?Nov 26 16:46
schestowitzzer0c00l: you can do me a favurNov 26 16:46
zer0c00lschestowitz: tell me ;)Nov 26 16:46
schestowitzSomeone originally from Peru translates BN to Spanish and he needs the text of that videoNov 26 16:46
schestowitzzer0c00l: yes, I listened to the whole podcastNov 26 16:46
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RD: @glynmoody: India Unveils Ambitious Solar Energy Plans - http://bit.ly/6FaFfM great to see India doing this #india #solarenergyNov 26 16:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: India Unveils Ambitious Solar Energy Plans .::. Size~: 34.22 KBNov 26 16:46
zer0c00lschestowitz: Text in english?Nov 26 16:47
schestowitzYesNov 26 16:47
schestowitzIt's not so long, I thinkNov 26 16:47
schestowitzABout MonsantoNov 26 16:47
schestowitzShe knows their scamNov 26 16:48
schestowitzShe's a nuclear scientist or something who has been an activists in this area foreverNov 26 16:48
schestowitzThat's why she gave talks in Spanish-speaking countriesNov 26 16:48
schestowitzMonsanto also does AfricaNov 26 16:48
schestowitzPearly Gates (the Microsoft thug) insults people like herNov 26 16:49
schestowitzCalling her "environmentalist"Nov 26 16:49
schestowitzTo hide the evil of the patent scamNov 26 16:49
zer0c00lschestowitz: hmm, yes but i am fully engaged till this sunday , will try to create a text of it this weekend Nov 26 16:49
schestowitzShe -- unlike Gates -- does not employ a PR cartelNov 26 16:49
schestowitzzer0c00l: thanks a lotNov 26 16:50
schestowitzIt's not just for meNov 26 16:50
schestowitz[03:32] <schestowitz> "Dear Roy,Nov 26 16:50
schestowitz[03:32] <schestowitz> "Though you see no comments from me lately there is no day that I read boycottnovell. Just busy with four children, work, home and homework. I think you understand.Nov 26 16:50
schestowitz[03:32] <schestowitz> "Anyway, I always translate your articles  to Spanish and email them to teachers in my birth country Peru. We do have to protect freedom everywhere so that's my grain of sand.Nov 26 16:50
schestowitz[03:32] <schestowitz> "Today there was a nice ogg file about the convicted thug and its patents in Mosanto, the mosanto-patents.ogg. I wish I could have the transcript to translate it and send it to Peru.Nov 26 16:50
schestowitz[03:32] <schestowitz> "Please if do you have the transcript can you email it to me or publish it on the site so this group of peruvian teachers can benefit from it. No rush please, just enjoy your Thanksgiving and above all Thanks for Boycottnovell.Nov 26 16:50
schestowitz[03:32] <schestowitz> "Thank you very much and Happy Thanksgiving for you and everyone who makes your site possible.Nov 26 16:50
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zer0c00lpearly gates wife of billg ?Nov 26 16:51
schestowitzBothNov 26 16:52
schestowitzThey want powerNov 26 16:52
schestowitzSince young ageNov 26 16:52
zer0c00ls/power/controlNov 26 16:52
schestowitzGates told a magazine something about ruling the world... when he was very youngNov 26 16:52
schestowitzHe grew up in a family like that.... so as she AFAIK, but I don't know enough.Nov 26 16:53
schestowitz /s/control/subjugation\/coercion\/whatever/Nov 26 16:53
schestowitzGates is coloialising India and African with the likes of MonsantoNov 26 16:54
schestowitzThey can afford to do this cause they have enough PR (brainwash) power to lie about what they doNov 26 16:54
schestowitzTHe sad thing, activists are fewNov 26 16:54
schestowitzMany are youngerNov 26 16:54
zer0c00lschestowitz: monsanto is billgates funded organization ?Nov 26 16:54
schestowitzThe education system was design to capture good minds and to make them debt-saddled before they are forced into the same machinations they could dennounceNov 26 16:55
schestowitzzer0c00l: yes, billionsNov 26 16:55
schestowitzHe also promotes them, that's the whole point of the postNov 26 16:56
schestowitzBig Business joins forces for global powerNov 26 16:56
schestowitzSee the "Green Revolution" (euphemism) in AfricaNov 26 16:56
schestowitzThat's Gates + RockerfellerNov 26 16:56
schestowitzThere's also another euphemism....Nov 26 16:56
schestowitz"Family planning"Nov 26 16:56
schestowitzThat means birth reductionNov 26 16:56
schestowitzGates preaches a lot of population reduction in poor nationsNov 26 16:57
zer0c00l:PNov 26 16:57
schestowitzThey use "family planning" as pretextNov 26 16:57
schestowitzYou need to know the language :-)Nov 26 16:57
schestowitz"Instability in the region" = "somewhere where affairs we don't like and thus want to invade/intervene with"Nov 26 16:58
zer0c00lschestowitz: abortion ?Nov 26 16:58
schestowitzA lot of 'problems' get used as excuse for imperialismNov 26 16:58
schestowitzAIDS tooNov 26 16:58
schestowitzIt's good reason for Rich Uncle(C) to step in and take partial sovreintyNov 26 16:58
schestowitz*sovereigntyNov 26 16:59
schestowitzzer0c00l: no, not just abortionNov 26 16:59
schestowitzAlso sterilisation and mutilationNov 26 16:59
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Good Impressions of #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/gl59 http://ur1.ca/gl5aNov 26 17:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu Karmic & my first impressions | David Goodwin .::. Size~: 18 KBNov 26 17:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Linux based OS Ubuntu 9 10 .::. Size~: 42.49 KBNov 26 17:01
schestowitzBTW:Nov 26 17:01
schestowitzAnother little thing:Nov 26 17:01
schestowitzNotice that they warp languageNov 26 17:01
schestowitz"Libertarian" and "environmentalists" are now insultsNov 26 17:01
schestowitz"Peacenicks" was another back in 2003Nov 26 17:02
schestowitzPeace=badNov 26 17:02
schestowitzAggression=heroic, patriotic, "support our troops"Nov 26 17:02
schestowitz"Support our troops" -> "support our big oil companies"Nov 26 17:02
schestowitz"Join the army" - > "the Industrial Complex needs YOU" :-)Nov 26 17:03
zer0c00l:-)Nov 26 17:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Kuki #GNU #Linux is Back on Track http://www.liliputing.com/2009/11/kuki-linux-development-resumes.htmlNov 26 17:05
phIRCe-BNcTitle:   Kuki Linux development resumes .::. Size~: 22.44 KBNov 26 17:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Nokia Shows More Signs of Moving from #Symbian to Linux? http://ur1.ca/gl5n http://ur1.ca/gl5oNov 26 17:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Nokia and Sony Ericsson withdraw handsets - DriverHeaven.net .::. Size~: 30.31 KBNov 26 17:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: bit-tech.net | Sony Ericsson, Nokia pull handsets .::. Size~: 47.84 KBNov 26 17:06
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FogComputing All About #FreeSoftware Behind the Wires http://www.v3.co.uk/v3/news/2253966/ec-study-hails-cloud-computingNov 26 17:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] US Politicians Want Free Database Software Devoured by CA-based Company http://ur1.ca/gl63Nov 26 17:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: US Senate Asks EC To Roll-Over On MySQL Oracle Concerns - News - eWeekEurope.co.uk .::. Size~: 24.19 KBNov 26 17:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla #Thunderbird 3 Now in RC, #Firefox 3.6 Beta 4 Out http://ur1.ca/gl65 http://ur1.ca/gl66Nov 26 17:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Mozilla hatches Thunderbird 3 release candidate • The Register .::. Size~: 25.92 KBNov 26 17:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Firefox 3.6 Beta 4 Available for Download - Get it right here - Softpedia .::. Size~: 49.17 KBNov 26 17:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Governments of #Europe and Australia Looking Into #FreeSoftware http://ur1.ca/gl6e http://ur1.ca/gl6fNov 26 17:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: European ministers favour open specifications and open source &mdash;  .::. Size~: 28.54 KBNov 26 17:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: NSW ponders open source, SaaS - News - Software - ZDNet Australia .::. Size~: 71.42 KBNov 26 17:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #HandBrake 0.9.4 Released, #Blender 2.5 Now in Alpha http://ur1.ca/gl6l http://ur1.ca/gl6mNov 26 17:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  HandBrake 0.9.4 Released With a Whopping 1,000 Changes  .::. Size~: 32.58 KBNov 26 17:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] Blender 2.5 Alpha Brings Major Changes .::. Size~: 16.47 KBNov 26 17:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Motion of Open Source Licensing Now Affecting Housing, Environment http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/11/open-source-house-project.phpNov 26 17:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Open Source House Project, Sharing Eco-Affordable Housing Solutions (Video) : TreeHugger .::. Size~: 65.38 KBNov 26 17:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux -powered Kindle Adds PDF Support (No DRM) http://ur1.ca/gl73 http://ur1.ca/gl75Nov 26 17:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Kindle gains longer battery life, PDF support - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 60.74 KBNov 26 17:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Danish Parliament: #ODF (OpenDocuemnt Format) Only http://lodahl.blogspot.com/2009/11/parliament-said-odf-only.htmlNov 26 17:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Lodahl's blog: The Parliament said: ODF only .::. Size~: 125.48 KBNov 26 17:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Researchers Explain Why #Patents Can be Bad for Society http://techdirt.com/articles/20091117/1158236974.shtmlNov 26 17:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Researchers: Copying And Imitation Is Good For Society | Techdirt .::. Size~: 46.11 KBNov 26 17:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ACTA Defenders Also Shown to be Socipaths http://techdirt.com/articles/20091125/0053077076.shtmlNov 26 17:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Funny How Those In Favor Of ACTA Are Against Treaty Providing More Access To Content For Vision Impaired | Techdirt .::. Size~: 26.39 KBNov 26 17:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Standards for #CMS Software Being Established http://ur1.ca/gl7h http://ur1.ca/gl7iNov 26 17:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Momentum builds for open content management standard - LinuxWorld .::. Size~: 37.26 KBNov 26 17:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What #Mono Does to #GNU #Linux and #GIMP http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-11-25-031-35-OS-CYNov 26 17:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Linux Today - Editor's Note: Saffire on Linux, KDE on Windows, No Gimp in Ubuntu .::. Size~: 97.14 KBNov 26 17:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Moonlight Gets a Kick in the Gut, #XAML Has Windows 'Extensions' http://ur1.ca/gl7rNov 26 17:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Tech-no-media: Silverlight multi-platform support is falling apart. .::. Size~: 97.13 KBNov 26 17:38
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Apple Shows Its (Lack of) Heart http://www.theage.com.au/technology/biz-tech/jobs-may-make-mat-lose-his-job-20091125-jq6t.htmlNov 26 17:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Steve Jobs | Apple | iPodRip | Little App Factory .::. Size~: 104.06 KBNov 26 17:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #London Stock Exchange Reminded to Move to #GNU #Linux Faster http://ur1.ca/gl7y http://ur1.ca/gl7zNov 26 17:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] I am loving my new central heating, yes the novelty will wear off soon, but for now, it's occupying my thoughtsNov 26 17:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: London Stock Exchange takes £20m hit on almost redundant TradElect platform - Messaging - ComputerworldUK .::. Size~: 84.94 KBNov 26 17:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC News - London Stock Exchange trading hit by technical glitch .::. Size~: 55.91 KBNov 26 17:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] anyone else noticed the identica plugin for pidgin updates every 60 secs? Won't that cause a lot of strain on the servers?Nov 26 17:48
schestowitzBN server is melting.......Nov 26 18:01
schestowitzPages load slowly due to loan, don't know what's causing it....Nov 26 18:01
*jono (n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovellNov 26 18:04
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.36.129.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovellNov 26 18:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Programming for Proprietary Platforms a Risk to One’s Livelihood http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/26/iphones-bans-and-root-password/Nov 26 18:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Programming for Proprietary Platforms a Risk to Ones Livelihood | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.58 KBNov 26 18:28
*zer0c00l has quit ("good night")Nov 26 18:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Sometimes you have to think sideways for a fix. How to get Jabber to stop Identi.ca updates? Disable it on the site *DOH!*Nov 26 18:41
*gigantic-cow (i=29b70015@gateway/web/freenode/x-zkqiygfduagxqeaj) has joined #boycottnovellNov 26 18:43
gigantic-cowmornin'.Nov 26 18:44
gigantic-cowWant to get some opinions from you guys: what do you think of F#?Nov 26 18:44
gigantic-cowHave any of you used F#?Nov 26 18:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] I don't know if I should feel dirty or not, my new found audio control is apparently down to Pulse, which I have hated on.....A LOT! :-/:-[Nov 26 18:48
schestowitzg2g, bblNov 26 18:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LSE Must Hurry up Migrating to #GNU #Linux (Windows Has Just Crashed Again) http://ur1.ca/glcjNov 26 18:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: LSE Must Hurry up Migrating to GNU/Linux (Windows Has Just Crashed Again) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 111.51 KBNov 26 18:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] why doesn't the iPhone jailbreak process have a config screen where you have no choice but to change your root password to continue?Nov 26 19:13
cubezzzok, I have the solution to the laptop problemNov 26 19:14
cubezzzhttp://www.ocztechnology.com/products/diy_notebooks/ocz_diy_15-gaming_notebook-small-intel-ati_editionNov 26 19:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: OCZ Technology | Products | DIY Notebooks | OCZ DIY 15" Gaming Notebook -  Intel  - ATI Edition .::. Size~: 45.68 KBNov 26 19:15
*ender2070_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 26 19:15
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*gigantic-cow (n=gigantic@41.183.15.36) has joined #boycottnovellNov 26 19:36
gigantic-cowSo... that F# ... any opinions?  Anyone?Nov 26 19:36
gigantic-cow(does anyone here even know what it is?)Nov 26 19:39
cubezzzanother Microsoft invention?Nov 26 19:51
MinceRprobably another part of the .net/mono patent trapNov 26 19:52
gigantic-cowvery like OCaml actuallyNov 26 19:53
gigantic-cowhas anyone here used OCaml?Nov 26 19:53
cubezzzlet me put it this way... I'm porting GNU stuff at the moment :)Nov 26 19:54
gigantic-cowwhat does that mean?Nov 26 19:55
ThistleWebsounds like gigantic-cow is here to provoke an argument and nobody is playing ball lolNov 26 19:55
gigantic-cowI am, pretty much. You guys have a problem with C#, fine. I want to know whether that extends to F#Nov 26 19:56
ThistleWebso you're here for a fightNov 26 19:56
ThistleWebwell doneNov 26 19:57
gigantic-cowDepends on you, doesn't it?Nov 26 19:57
ThistleWebnow your motives have been outed, I doubt anyone is gonna respond to you and give you what you wantNov 26 19:57
ThistleWebwhich includes me....I'm out of this convoNov 26 19:57
cubezzzI don't use .net stuffNov 26 19:57
ThistleWebhave funNov 26 19:58
gigantic-cowAs you like. You'll have the talk in a few months, no doubt, when it's hereNov 26 19:58
gigantic-cowI guess I'll listen in thenNov 26 19:58
cubezzzwhat talk?Nov 26 19:58
gigantic-cowabout F#. It's part of VS2010Nov 26 19:58
gigantic-cowa fully-supported .Net langaueNov 26 19:58
MinceRprobably most of the problematic patents refer to the virtual machine and the class libraryNov 26 19:58
gigantic-cowgoing to be on Linux soon tooNov 26 19:59
MinceRi know of several that certainly doNov 26 19:59
MinceRso they affect F# just as much as C#Nov 26 19:59
gigantic-cowthey're running integration tests on it as MS labs right nowNov 26 19:59
*Ender2070 (n=Ender207@bas3-toronto63-1096719419.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovellNov 26 19:59
gigantic-cowso, boo, nemerle, f# ... all the same to you guys?Nov 26 19:59
gigantic-cowcos of the vm?Nov 26 20:00
cubezzzI use C, full stopNov 26 20:00
MinceRi mostly use python, c++ and cNov 26 20:00
Ender2070I use google goNov 26 20:00
Ender2070pwns u allNov 26 20:00
MinceRlolNov 26 20:00
cubezzztrusting Microsoft isn't in the cardsNov 26 20:00
cubezzzwhich is what I said 20+ years agoNov 26 20:01
gigantic-cowok. well good luck with that then, y'all. doesn't look like the vm is dying anytime soon thoNov 26 20:01
MinceRit will probably die along with winblows and m$Nov 26 20:02
cubezzzbut I don't use vm you seeNov 26 20:02
gigantic-cowsure it will cos MS will die ANY DAY NOWNov 26 20:02
gigantic-cowLike tomorrowNov 26 20:02
gigantic-cowor next week maybeNov 26 20:02
gigantic-cowon the cardsNov 26 20:02
Ender2070everytime you use google, you use a machine running linuxNov 26 20:02
gigantic-cowgood for me?Nov 26 20:03
ThistleWebgigantic-cow: do you think your clever trolling us?Nov 26 20:03
cubezzzjust some kid probably, who caresNov 26 20:03
*sebsebseb is now known as sebsebseb_desktoNov 26 20:03
gigantic-cowno. do you think youre clever? Microsoft Will Die? SureNov 26 20:03
gigantic-cowHow long have you been predicting that? 15 years? 20?Nov 26 20:03
cubezzzno, I said I don't trust them, that's allNov 26 20:04
gigantic-cowBut next year, sure, itll happen thenNov 26 20:04
MinceRit depends on them tooNov 26 20:04
ThistleWeblol, I notice the lack of a "trolling? me?"Nov 26 20:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] I have just added my first video to Wikipedia. http://enwp.org/Russell_Square HOLY CRAP LIKE A BOOK COME TO LIFENov 26 20:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Russell Square - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 34.64 KBNov 26 20:04
*sebsebseb_deskto is now known as sebseb_desktopNov 26 20:04
gigantic-cowwell if they arent going anywhere, neither is the vmNov 26 20:04
MinceRbut with crap like vista and vista7 they're certainly speeding their own demise :>Nov 26 20:04
MinceRgigantic-cow: keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleepNov 26 20:04
gigantic-cowCos Win7 has had terrible uptakeNov 26 20:04
gigantic-cowoh no waitNov 26 20:05
gigantic-cowthats a lieNov 26 20:05
*sebseb_desktop is now known as sebsebseb_desktoNov 26 20:05
gigantic-cowIt has better adoption than XP didNov 26 20:05
*ThistleWeb wonders who wll defend MS when the bribe money runs dryNov 26 20:05
*sebsebseb_deskto is now known as sebsebsebNov 26 20:05
MinceRThistleWeb: fanboysNov 26 20:05
gigantic-cowummmm hang on, maybe the millions of usersNov 26 20:05
ThistleWebprobablyNov 26 20:05
cubezzzpeople are forced to use windowsNov 26 20:06
gigantic-cowsorry I misspokeNov 26 20:06
gigantic-cowI meant tens of millionsNov 26 20:06
ThistleWeblmao, you never see ANY windows user say "hey I love windows"Nov 26 20:06
MinceRgigantic-cow: ask a typical user what windows isNov 26 20:06
ThistleWebthey all make excuses for itNov 26 20:06
gigantic-cowhavent been reading many win7 reviews thistel?Nov 26 20:06
cubezzzit's terrible for memory useNov 26 20:06
ThistleWebreviews paid for by MS? noNov 26 20:06
cubezzzyou want to see something good, look at tiny coreNov 26 20:06
MinceRgigantic-cow: you mean the ones m$ paid for with laptops and other free stuff?Nov 26 20:06
cubezzzthat's the most efficient OS out thereNov 26 20:07
gigantic-cowof course. its all paid for if its positive, right? the whole journalistic world is against youNov 26 20:07
ThistleWebno point, just do a text replace with reviews of vista and change to win7Nov 26 20:07
gigantic-cowNot a single positive review, all shillsNov 26 20:07
gigantic-cowtsk tskNov 26 20:07
cubezzzBeOS was good also, but it wasn't FOSSNov 26 20:08
cubezzzlots of other choices thoughNov 26 20:08
MinceRBeOS would have been better if it had more Unix in it :)Nov 26 20:09
ThistleWebis First Rand Bank Limited a MS partner?Nov 26 20:09
gigantic-cowi doubt itNov 26 20:09
gigantic-cowlol ... you know my ISP! so scaryNov 26 20:09
cubezzzmach kernel looks interesting alsoNov 26 20:10
ThistleWebI'm just wondering what the connection is between them and MS, or you and MSNov 26 20:11
gigantic-cowbut I must be a shill or paid for or something ... nooooes there's no way anyone would use anything from MSNov 26 20:11
gigantic-cowother than the huge .Net ecosystemNov 26 20:11
MinceRlolNov 26 20:11
cubezzzI've never used .net Nov 26 20:11
MinceRwe're getting to comedy gold hereNov 26 20:11
gigantic-cowwell done cubezzNov 26 20:11
MinceR"huge .net ecosystem", he saysNov 26 20:11
gigantic-cowbigger than Rails MinceRNov 26 20:11
gigantic-cowyou go look at the statsNov 26 20:12
cubezzzkids today understand so littleNov 26 20:12
MinceRwow, bigger than fails!Nov 26 20:12
MinceRthat must be really huge!Nov 26 20:12
gigantic-cowyeah its big enoughNov 26 20:12
Ender2070you all notice theres a correlation between stupid people (90% of the population) and windows users (90% of the population) or is it coincidence?Nov 26 20:12
gigantic-cowcubezz glad you use C only. how long does it take you to do a map in C?Nov 26 20:13
ThistleWebgigantic-cow: for the record, do you have any direct or indirect connection to MS?Nov 26 20:13
MinceR210942 < gigantic-cow> yeah its big enoughNov 26 20:13
gigantic-cowOh yeah. Wait C can't do a map.Nov 26 20:13
MinceRthat's what she said.Nov 26 20:13
ThistleWebremember these chats are logged and postedNov 26 20:13
gigantic-cowthistle does it matter what I say? your paranoia will tell you Im paid forNov 26 20:13
MinceRgigantic-cow: what do you mean by "map" in this context?Nov 26 20:13
cubezzzgigantic-cow, I work with mostly low-level codeNov 26 20:14
ThistleWebof course it mattersNov 26 20:14
gigantic-cowgreat, the world can see the tininess of your worldNov 26 20:14
gigantic-cowMinceR map ... you know? map operation? see wikipediaNov 26 20:14
ThistleWebyou're refuseing to state that you have a connectionNov 26 20:14
ThistleWebif you have no connection, why not say soNov 26 20:14
gigantic-cowthistle ok I have no connection. you believe me?Nov 26 20:15
gigantic-cowgo on, say noNov 26 20:15
MinceRgigantic-cow: die in a fire.Nov 26 20:15
gigantic-cowthey must be paying me to be hereNov 26 20:15
ThistleWebI don't no. I just wanted it on record either wayNov 26 20:15
MinceRgigantic-cow: btw, c can do thatNov 26 20:15
gigantic-cowreally mincer? now?Nov 26 20:15
MinceRit can do just about anythingNov 26 20:15
gigantic-cowhow?Nov 26 20:15
ThistleWebso that if you're outed later, there'll be logged proof of deceptionNov 26 20:15
MinceRgigantic-cow: see cpython ;)Nov 26 20:16
cubezzzsorry kid, you're on ignore, got work to doNov 26 20:16
MinceRgigantic-cow: also, see Turing-completeNov 26 20:16
MinceRgigantic-cow: it's all on wikipediaNov 26 20:16
gigantic-cowmincer great answer ... pity Python is not C....Nov 26 20:16
ThistleWebI don't believe anyone can be so blind in their defense of a corp like MS if they have no financial reason to do soNov 26 20:16
ThistleWebthey have nothing going for themNov 26 20:16
gigantic-cowthistle see? tininess of your worldNov 26 20:16
gigantic-cowyou cant believe anything outside of your wallsNov 26 20:17
gigantic-cownice walls btwNov 26 20:17
gigantic-cowso anti-everythingNov 26 20:17
ThistleWebnot at all, I just think criminals should be caught and punished, not rewardedNov 26 20:17
MinceRgigantic-cow: it's implemented in cNov 26 20:17
MinceRgigantic-cow: get a clueNov 26 20:17
gigantic-cowmincer why would I program in C when I can program in another turing-complete language like modified brainf*ck?Nov 26 20:17
ThistleWebcall me old fashioned if you likeNov 26 20:17
MinceRgigantic-cow: also, it's probably trivial to implement with glibNov 26 20:17
MinceRgigantic-cow: do i care?Nov 26 20:18
gigantic-cowmincer really? can't say you've sed glib then, can you?Nov 26 20:18
MinceRgigantic-cow: i've used glib, have you?Nov 26 20:18
gigantic-cowmincer of course. and there's damn sure no map operation thereNov 26 20:18
ThistleWebanyhoo, we seem to have given him what he wants....a fight. For my part, I appologise and shall refreain from further feeding the trollNov 26 20:19
MinceRgigantic-cow: and you definitely can't write new functionsNov 26 20:19
MinceRyes, it's futileNov 26 20:19
MinceRhe's only here to trollNov 26 20:19
gigantic-cowmincer of course you can. lots of new functions ... toooons of codeNov 26 20:19
gigantic-cowor you could use C# or F#Nov 26 20:19
MinceRgigantic-cow: die in a fireNov 26 20:19
gigantic-cowbut nooooo, you think that is backwardsNov 26 20:19
gigantic-cowhahaha.  sure.Nov 26 20:19
Ender2070do you normally troll from work?Nov 26 20:21
gigantic-cowno from homeNov 26 20:21
gigantic-cowand only guys like youNov 26 20:21
Ender2070your home is a bank?Nov 26 20:21
gigantic-cowyou are specialNov 26 20:21
gigantic-cowender that is an ISP ... did you not understand that?Nov 26 20:21
Ender2070http://samspade.org/whois/41.183.15.36Nov 26 20:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Whois  .::. Size~: 4.82 KBNov 26 20:21
gigantic-cowyour point?Nov 26 20:22
gigantic-cowdo you know what an ISP is?Nov 26 20:22
Ender2070fnb.co.za is a bankNov 26 20:22
gigantic-cowwell done. and an isp.Nov 26 20:23
gigantic-cowlike mushrooms are a food and a fungusNov 26 20:23
gigantic-cowamazing I knowNov 26 20:23
Ender2070well they dont advertise being an isp, anywhereNov 26 20:23
Ender2070you would think they might want customersNov 26 20:24
gigantic-cowoh so I guess reading isnt something you doNov 26 20:24
gigantic-cowfnbconnect.co.zaNov 26 20:24
gigantic-cowthere ...Nov 26 20:24
Ender2070there, was missing in the whoisNov 26 20:25
Ender2070and no obvious links from the home pageNov 26 20:25
*ThistleWeb wonders if this company will come up in a future announcement about signing some deal with MSNov 26 20:25
ThistleWebor turn up on some voting committee somewhere to vote for what MS suggestNov 26 20:26
gigantic-cowthiste yes I am sure it will ... lol ... still paranoid hey?Nov 26 20:26
gigantic-cowit is a BANK you doofusNov 26 20:26
gigantic-cowwhat committee to vote?Nov 26 20:26
gigantic-cowmaybe MS will become a bank, then they will have that in common ... sureNov 26 20:27
ThistleWebor submit some breif to govt over some new legislationNov 26 20:27
gigantic-cowalways a connection eh thistle? thats paranoiaNov 26 20:27
ThistleWeblobby for what MS want without letting anyone know they get kickbacksNov 26 20:27
gigantic-coweven if you cant see the connection, there MUST be oneNov 26 20:27
gigantic-cowsureNov 26 20:27
ThistleWebnah, sadly, more truth than paranoiaNov 26 20:28
gigantic-cowreally? whats the link then?Nov 26 20:28
ThistleWebthats what happens with criminalsNov 26 20:28
gigantic-cowtell me I am all earsNov 26 20:28
gigantic-cowand now the bank is a criminal!Nov 26 20:28
gigantic-cowgets betterNov 26 20:28
ThistleWebI'm saying I wouldn't be surprised to see itNov 26 20:28
MinceRThistleWeb: don't feed him :)Nov 26 20:28
ThistleWebwhoops, I'm feeding againNov 26 20:28
gigantic-cowthis is south africa not USA. our banks arent like yours///Nov 26 20:28
ThistleWebMinceR: yeah I started to spot that lolNov 26 20:29
Ender2070ROFLNov 26 20:29
Ender2070banks everywhere are evil, it goes with the territoryNov 26 20:29
ThistleWebtrolls do tend to do that, anything to derail the channelNov 26 20:29
gigantic-cowcos there was SO MUCH convo going on before I got hereNov 26 20:29
gigantic-cowdid I interrupt the hour of silence?Nov 26 20:30
gigantic-cowsorry to disrupt thatNov 26 20:30
gigantic-cowbut you guys are something specialNov 26 20:30
gigantic-cowanti-VMs? nice position to take. pity 95% of the world disagrees with you kn thatNov 26 20:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Has the UK had any PM who has never been elected? Brown has no chance at the election, is he the first to be PM and never win an election?Nov 26 20:32
gigantic-cowas shown by the uptake of java, .net, js engines, ...Nov 26 20:32
MinceRjava is not .net, dumbassNov 26 20:32
MinceRneither is ecmascriptNov 26 20:33
gigantic-cowso you dont mind java then?Nov 26 20:33
gigantic-cowI thought you didnt like vmsNov 26 20:33
MinceRand neither is pythonNov 26 20:33
MinceRshows how hard you fail at reading comprehension.Nov 26 20:33
gigantic-cowpython is actuallyNov 26 20:33
Diablo-D3man, whats with all the fucking trolls in here?Nov 26 20:33
gigantic-cowironpythonNov 26 20:33
MinceRno, i'm not talking about ironpythonNov 26 20:33
gigantic-cowdidnt you know about ironpython?Nov 26 20:33
MinceRif i were talking about ironpython, i would have said "ironpython"Nov 26 20:34
MinceRi didNov 26 20:34
Diablo-D3is gigantic-cow a microsoft shill?Nov 26 20:34
MinceReither a shill or a fanboyNov 26 20:34
gigantic-cowor is the only python you know about the Pure CPython?Nov 26 20:34
Diablo-D3MinceR: dont you have ops here?Nov 26 20:34
MinceRi don'tNov 26 20:34
MinceRi'm not on the access listNov 26 20:34
gigantic-cowyes diablo, I must be a shillNov 26 20:34
gigantic-cowthey must pay meNov 26 20:34
gigantic-cownarrow-minded aren't youNov 26 20:34
MinceRand my connection breaks oftenNov 26 20:34
ThistleWebironpython is a .net / python / MS-patent-festNov 26 20:34
gigantic-cowand jython? is that better?Nov 26 20:35
ThistleWeblisten to the floss weekly ep on itNov 26 20:35
ThistleWebit's all about MSNov 26 20:35
gigantic-cowcos its covered by patents too you knowNov 26 20:35
Diablo-D3ironpython is a mistake anyhowNov 26 20:35
ThistleWebmore lockinNov 26 20:35
Diablo-D3its a shitload slower than unladen swallowNov 26 20:35
gigantic-cowhahahaNov 26 20:35
Diablo-D3and a fair bit slower than jythonNov 26 20:35
ThistleWebDiablo-D3: african or eurpoean?Nov 26 20:35
gigantic-cowdiablo you have never used it have you?Nov 26 20:35
Diablo-D3ThistleWeb: seriously, thats the actual name of their llvm compilerNov 26 20:35
gigantic-cowgo check some benchmarks and come backNov 26 20:36
gigantic-cowhow is it lockin to implement pyhon 2.6?Nov 26 20:36
Diablo-D3says the gigantic-cow, whos never done benchmarks himself.Nov 26 20:36
gigantic-cowplease tellNov 26 20:36
ThistleWebgigantic-cow: we don't give a shitNov 26 20:36
gigantic-cowdiablo Computer Language ShootoutNov 26 20:36
gigantic-cowgo and checkNov 26 20:36
Diablo-D3gigantic-cow: shootout doesn't have other versions of python yetNov 26 20:37
ThistleWebfeel free to continue to try and derail us, we don't give a shit about any of your claimsNov 26 20:37
Diablo-D3shootout also has severely botched benchmarks in a lot of placesNov 26 20:37
*Diablo-D3 has written about this before.Nov 26 20:37
gigantic-cowthistle of course not because it isnt your world view is it?Nov 26 20:37
gigantic-cowawwww liddle inconvenient factsNov 26 20:37
gigantic-cowshame about thoseNov 26 20:37
*Diablo-D3 puts gigantic-cow on ignoreNov 26 20:37
*MinceR was hoping for a troll match :>Nov 26 20:38
ThistleWebDiablo-D3: good ideaNov 26 20:38
gigantic-cowhahahaha you guys are greatNov 26 20:38
Diablo-D3MinceR: I got tired of him, hes not even a good trollNov 26 20:38
cubezzzshouldn't one of us have ops? :)Nov 26 20:38
gigantic-cowclose your ears ... big bad cow saying naughty thingsNov 26 20:38
Diablo-D3cubezzz: roy keeps saying no.Nov 26 20:38
gigantic-cowthey just happen to be trueNov 26 20:38
Diablo-D3I think hes afraid of me cleaning out the channelNov 26 20:38
gigantic-cowbut so what, right?Nov 26 20:38
MinceRcubezzz: schestowitz thinks i kickban too lightly, apparently :>Nov 26 20:38
gigantic-cowgreat to hear how you guys silence dissentNov 26 20:39
gigantic-cowbut you worship roy for standing up against The Man right?Nov 26 20:39
gigantic-cowin this channel it seems that standing up against your opinions gets you kickbannedNov 26 20:39
gigantic-cowlovely ... see, THAT should be logged publiclyNov 26 20:39
ThistleWebooh, the IQ level has went up a notch after that ignore, it's amazing what happens when you filter out the mental midgetsNov 26 20:40
gigantic-cowand now it is!Nov 26 20:40
gigantic-cowlol .... i am sure it did ... Nov 26 20:40
gigantic-cowhey wheres _goblin ... one troll deserves another ......Nov 26 20:41
*cubezzz is making puzzlesNov 26 20:42
Ender2070kvm is pretty niceNov 26 20:43
Ender2070seems faster than virtualbox by a longshotNov 26 20:43
cubezzzcontrolling the means to production is key :)Nov 26 20:44
_goblinhi gigantic-cow!Nov 26 20:47
_goblinsorry Im a little late.Nov 26 20:47
gigantic-cowhi trollNov 26 20:47
gigantic-cowsorry _goblin I meanNov 26 20:48
_goblinIm a goblin actually...Nov 26 20:48
_goblintheres a differenceNov 26 20:48
gigantic-cowyou also against F#?Nov 26 20:48
gigantic-cowor VMs?Nov 26 20:48
Diablo-D3_goblin: the rest of us got bored with himNov 26 20:48
gigantic-cowrest of these guys are stuck in the 1990sNov 26 20:48
gigantic-cowits hilariousNov 26 20:48
Diablo-D3Ender2070: except kvm doesn't have a virtualized video driver yetNov 26 20:48
Diablo-D3so no 2D accel and defenetly no 3D accelNov 26 20:48
_goblingigantic-cow: I am not against anything in the software world.  I have opinions.Nov 26 20:49
ThistleWeb_goblin: methinks you're the only one talking to him, the rest of us have ignored his assNov 26 20:49
gigantic-cow_goblin and what is your opinion in F#Nov 26 20:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Possibly only with the addition of marquee and blink tags could this page look any worse http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla/addons.htmlNov 26 20:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Free addons - IceCat - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation .::. Size~: 40.71 KBNov 26 20:50
_goblingigantic-cow: to be honest, I don't have one.Nov 26 20:50
gigantic-cowthistle doesnt like to hear fact or opposing viewsNov 26 20:50
gigantic-cow_goblin so you would be OK with something developed in F#?Nov 26 20:51
_goblingigantic-cow: of course I would....if I use it or not would be a different matter.Nov 26 20:51
gigantic-cowwell at least one of you has senseNov 26 20:51
gigantic-cowgood to hearNov 26 20:52
MinceRDiablo-D3: the homepage of VMGL says it might work with KVM :>Nov 26 20:52
_goblingigantic-cow: The thing I would have against F# is its yet another language......Nov 26 20:54
gigantic-cowso? more choiceNov 26 20:54
gigantic-cowdo you feel the same about Google Go?Nov 26 20:54
_goblingigantic-cow: yes but coders don't need choice....do they?Nov 26 20:54
_goblingigantic-cow: havent coders learnt their craft in one language?Nov 26 20:54
_goblingigantic-cow: David BrabenNov 26 20:54
_goblingigantic-cow: as an example.Nov 26 20:55
ThistleWebwhat I don't get with the MS fanboys, if MS is so much better than everything else, why are they scared of people having a choice? People will see that and buy MS. The problem is that almost everything MS do is third rate, which is pretty obvious in a like for like comparisionNov 26 20:55
_goblingigantic-cow: and in respect of GO, yes, I feel exactly the same way.Nov 26 20:55
gigantic-cow_goblin not following you. one language must be enough for everyone? is thqat what youre saying?Nov 26 20:55
gigantic-cowthistle great assertions keep it upNov 26 20:55
_goblingigantic-cow: I am harking back to my coding days where it was the A500 and really asm was the only option...Nov 26 20:56
gigantic-cowthistle bringing about 5 langauages and many technologies to the table restricts choiceNov 26 20:56
_goblingigantic-cow: coders learnt their craft mastering one language....Nov 26 20:56
gigantic-cowI see that nowNov 26 20:56
ThistleWebthe fact that they will do everything legal and illegal, moral and imoral to ensure that nobody has a choice tells it's own story.....they can't win on a technical levelNov 26 20:56
gigantic-cowthistle that is why nobody programs in .netNov 26 20:56
gigantic-cowoh waitNov 26 20:56
gigantic-cowyes they doNov 26 20:56
gigantic-cowguess youre wrong againNov 26 20:56
gigantic-cow_goblin funny opionion you haveNov 26 20:57
_goblingigantic-cow: why so?Nov 26 20:57
gigantic-cowI dont think many would agree with youNov 26 20:57
gigantic-cowLike paul graham for exampleNov 26 20:57
_goblinI have repeatedly said that when people claim I follow anyone....Nov 26 20:57
gigantic-cowanyway, nice opinion, but glad youre not against the language ... buy against language choice instead .... okNov 26 20:58
gigantic-cowyou can stick to ASM, I dont mind!Nov 26 20:59
cubezzz_gobin, Asm with C thoughNov 26 20:59
cubezzzand usually I didn't use Asm myselfNov 26 21:00
gigantic-cowyes ... why choose one low-level language when you can mix twoNov 26 21:00
gigantic-cowmake your code platform specific. its not lockin, I am sure.Nov 26 21:00
cubezzzwell, if you go back to c64 and vic-20 I didNov 26 21:01
cubezzzor Commdore PET evenNov 26 21:01
gigantic-cowmaybe it is cos you guys are old? didnt get the memo to move with the times?Nov 26 21:01
_goblinOn the A500, for me it was Devpac 2 and no C.Nov 26 21:01
_goblingigantic-cow: Maybe if the coding principles of the time had been adopted now, we wouldnt have the bloat nor need the specs we do....Nov 26 21:02
gigantic-cownow e would just have horrible buggy apps with no GUINov 26 21:02
gigantic-cowthat would be much betterNov 26 21:02
_goblingigantic-cow: Really?  The A500 was an example of buggy apps? or what about the demoscene? buggy? or operating well out of the boundaries of what Commodore claimed was possible.Nov 26 21:03
Ender2070lol you're such a trollNov 26 21:03
gigantic-cow_goblin great GUI on the A500. v.advanced.Nov 26 21:04
cubezzzI'm missing all the wisdom, alas :)Nov 26 21:04
_goblingigantic-cow: it was the early 90's.Nov 26 21:04
gigantic-cowAnd they had a better-than-Motif GUI? really?Nov 26 21:04
gigantic-cowall in pure ASM?Nov 26 21:04
gigantic-cowHow was maintainability? Or code reuse? was it good?Nov 26 21:04
gigantic-cowOr RAD ... lol .... yes, RAD with ASMNov 26 21:05
gigantic-cowlets see Pylons made in ASM.  what fun that would beNov 26 21:05
Ender2070I just did 1 minute of research, F# is the tool of the devilNov 26 21:05
_goblingigantic-cow: If you are refering to Workbench (1.3 in particular) for the time (and peoples expectations) WB was more than suitable...Nov 26 21:05
gigantic-cowEnder do tell usNov 26 21:05
Ender2070"F# is a succinct, type-inferred, expressive, efficient typed functional and object-oriented language for the .NET platform."Nov 26 21:05
Ender2070all i needed to readNov 26 21:05
gigantic-cowender it took you a minute to read that? slowNov 26 21:06
gigantic-cowI managed it in much less timeNov 26 21:06
Ender2070google search includedNov 26 21:06
_goblinI must admit I had to laugh at: "a performance profile like that of C#,"Nov 26 21:06
Ender2070and opening my browserNov 26 21:06
Ender2070smart assNov 26 21:06
gigantic-cowoh your on dial up, that explains itNov 26 21:06
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] I can't seem to fit in a day all the things i want to do!I just wish sleep wasn't necessary!Nov 26 21:06
_goblinlike that was a good thing...Nov 26 21:06
gigantic-cowanyway continue? whats so bad?Nov 26 21:07
_goblin"a performance profile like that of C#,"Nov 26 21:07
gigantic-cowender you dont like VMs either?Nov 26 21:07
_goblinI'd suggest that for starters.Nov 26 21:07
*cubezzz pulls out ArexxNov 26 21:07
Ender2070i dont like microsoftNov 26 21:07
gigantic-cow_goblin so you dont like a good performance profile? you are against that?Nov 26 21:07
gigantic-cowCos C# has got better performance than Java these daysNov 26 21:07
cubezzzEnder2070, that just doesn't go far enoughNov 26 21:07
cubezzzafter all the crap they pulledNov 26 21:08
gigantic-cowEclipse runnine in .Net is FASTER than under the JVM ....... lolNov 26 21:08
cubezzzit's more like "My hatred of Microsoft burns with the power of 10,000 suns"Nov 26 21:08
Ender2070oh, anyone who doesn't have stockholm syndrom knows what msft has doneNov 26 21:08
Ender2070syndromeNov 26 21:08
gigantic-cowender ok, well, F# must be horrible because you dont like microsoftNov 26 21:08
gigantic-cowthat makes so much senseNov 26 21:08
gigantic-cowI can tell you spent your minute wellNov 26 21:08
Ender2070F# in MY OPINION is horrible, because i don't like microsoftNov 26 21:09
gigantic-cowdo you like delphi?Nov 26 21:09
gigantic-cowcos C# was made by the guy who made delphiNov 26 21:09
Ender2070people are allowed to dislike certain companiesNov 26 21:09
gigantic-cowOr do you hate Borland too?Nov 26 21:09
gigantic-cowender sure ...... and then they can say that technology is terrible because ... ummm ... they feel it isNov 26 21:09
Ender2070someone might not like ford, doesnt mean they hate carsNov 26 21:10
gigantic-cowlots of people listen to thatNov 26 21:10
gigantic-cowgo with your emotionsNov 26 21:10
gigantic-cowvery convincingNov 26 21:10
cubezzzFord never had a 90% of the marketNov 26 21:10
Ender2070i go with company historyNov 26 21:10
gigantic-cowI will never use .net now because of enders emotions .... sureNov 26 21:10
Ender2070im telling you why I avoid msft technologyNov 26 21:10
Ender2070doesn't mean you have toNov 26 21:10
gigantic-cowender good for you ... the rest of you feel the same way?Nov 26 21:11
gigantic-cowI can see cubezzz doesNov 26 21:11
ThistleWebI'm just old fashioned in thinking organised crime should not payNov 26 21:11
gigantic-cowbig old microsoft-hate club here, facts be damnedNov 26 21:11
Ender2070im still going to recommend to everyone to avoid them as wellNov 26 21:11
cubezzzlots of choices guysNov 26 21:11
ThistleWebspecially in tax payer funded contractsNov 26 21:11
gigantic-cowender go ahead. let me know when the CEO of a company listens to your feelingsNov 26 21:11
cubezzzno need to use MIcrosoft for anythingNov 26 21:12
ThistleWebwhile evading paying taxesNov 26 21:12
Ender2070im not concerned with impressing some business type?Nov 26 21:12
gigantic-cowno need at all .... lets all go back to ASM .... that was the pinnacleNov 26 21:12
cubezzzwhy give money to the richest guy in the world?Nov 26 21:12
gigantic-cowcubezzz hes not actually. just a factNov 26 21:12
cubezzzsounds stupid doesn't it?Nov 26 21:12
gigantic-cowor it means he worked hardNov 26 21:13
gigantic-cowyou pick your opinion beforehandNov 26 21:13
_goblingigantic-cow: sorry about that, got distracted.....Nov 26 21:13
Ender2070google go has the potential to wipe out .netNov 26 21:13
gigantic-cowender ok, hope your friends listen to youNov 26 21:13
gigantic-cowender ...... hahahaha ..... sure okNov 26 21:13
Ender2070google usually hands msft its assNov 26 21:14
_goblingigantic-cow: I laughed because C# performance is hardly something to base a glowing recommendation on......if you dispute that check out the real coders that submit material to DTV.Nov 26 21:14
gigantic-cow_goblin what is DTV?Nov 26 21:14
_goblinStandby...I'll link you....appologize for the abreviation...its not well known.....Nov 26 21:14
_goblinhttp://www.demoscene.tv/Nov 26 21:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: DTV :: All the demoscene on a web TV ! .::. Size~: 159.77 KBNov 26 21:15
gigantic-cow_goblin so you think Java perf suck too?Nov 26 21:15
gigantic-cow_goblin and pythonNov 26 21:15
gigantic-cow_goblin and ruby and smalltalkNov 26 21:15
gigantic-cow_goblin and goNov 26 21:15
_goblinJava...ruby....etc no opinion....Nov 26 21:15
gigantic-cowbut they arent real coders!!!!Nov 26 21:16
gigantic-cowNo ruby code on DTV!Nov 26 21:16
gigantic-cowso it must suckNov 26 21:16
_goblinyes very good.....Nov 26 21:16
_goblinwe are talking performance code here.Nov 26 21:16
gigantic-cowyes ... you can only write performance code in C ... or ASM .... right?Nov 26 21:16
gigantic-cowSo everything else must be badNov 26 21:17
_goblinno necessarily.....Nov 26 21:17
_goblinwrong...Nov 26 21:17
gigantic-cowoh ok. wheres the Java code on DTV?Nov 26 21:17
_goblinWhere are the apps on DTV?Nov 26 21:17
gigantic-cowor smalltalk? Or Rebol?Nov 26 21:17
_goblinright tools for the right job.....Nov 26 21:17
gigantic-cowWait ... so C# would be good for real apps then?Nov 26 21:17
_goblinc# pimps itself as a jack of all trades...Nov 26 21:17
gigantic-cowno it doesntNov 26 21:18
_goblinoh yes it does....Nov 26 21:18
gigantic-cowwhere do they say you should make a 4k demo in C#? please show meNov 26 21:18
_goblin"a performance profile like that of C#,"Nov 26 21:18
ThistleWebmaybe that's why MS are struggling, they haven't matched the right trolls for the right job; they keep outing themselves or leaving a traceNov 26 21:18
gigantic-cowwow yes that must be what that meansNov 26 21:18
_goblinthat to me suggests they are implying C# is a great perfomer.Nov 26 21:18
gigantic-cowand it is ...... for appsNov 26 21:18
_goblinlol....Nov 26 21:18
gigantic-cowbetter than JavaNov 26 21:18
gigantic-cowEclipse runs faster on .net than in a JVMNov 26 21:19
gigantic-cowhaha for the jvmNov 26 21:19
_goblinbut then if we are agreed that a 100% asm app would run faster than C# then really performance is a moot point....Nov 26 21:19
ThistleWebor maybe it's just the same quality control they put into the rest of their stuffNov 26 21:19
gigantic-cow_goblin of courseNov 26 21:19
_goblinand certainly Mono is no performer....for anything.....even F-spot lags.Nov 26 21:19
_goblinagain....a claimer of performance.Nov 26 21:20
gigantic-cowMono will get better in time...Nov 26 21:20
trmancois there any real mono app?Nov 26 21:20
_goblinlolNov 26 21:20
_goblinlolNov 26 21:20
trmancosomething that isn't a toyNov 26 21:20
_goblinQuote "Mono will get better in time..."Nov 26 21:20
gigantic-cowI think they ran eclipse on mono actually and it ran fasterNov 26 21:20
gigantic-cowso still better than javaNov 26 21:20
_goblinspoken like Ballmer himself......"it will be better next time"Nov 26 21:20
gigantic-cowtrmanco no you are imagining all of them. go to sleepNov 26 21:20
ThistleWebwith the claim "it helps .net apps run on linux" has anyone ever seen that in practice?Nov 26 21:21
trmancoso, tomboy isn't a toy?Nov 26 21:21
trmancofspot isn't a "toy"Nov 26 21:21
trmancohmmNov 26 21:21
gigantic-cowtrmanco of course it is, just like compiz and the whole desktop ideaNov 26 21:22
gigantic-cowall pretty toysNov 26 21:22
trmancosomethings that's freeNov 26 21:22
ThistleWebI guess it might happen inside a few corps with internal appsNov 26 21:22
gigantic-cownice useful toysNov 26 21:22
trmancocompiz in monoNov 26 21:22
trmancohmmmNov 26 21:22
gigantic-cowlets get rid of all the toys trmanco and go back to the command lineNov 26 21:22
trmancocompiz is s toyNov 26 21:22
ThistleWebanyone know of any .net apps that have been ported to linux with mono?Nov 26 21:22
gigantic-cowthat would be greatNov 26 21:22
Ender2070the unmaintainted paint monoNov 26 21:22
gigantic-cowthistle why not ask miguel? I think he would know... invite him here .... lol .... with you guys I am sure he would acceptNov 26 21:23
ThistleWebI do see a handful of mono apps that most distros are trying to keep outNov 26 21:23
*jono has quit ("Ex-Chat")Nov 26 21:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] GIMP to go Mono to stay? http://tinyurl.com/y8bohkb #mono #gimp #novell #linux #fossNov 26 21:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: GIMP to go Mono to stay? «  OPEN BYTES  cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 42.49 KBNov 26 21:23
gigantic-cowyou are all so willing to accept other views after allNov 26 21:23
trmancoit's free to enterNov 26 21:23
trmancono need to inviteNov 26 21:23
ThistleWebout of the default install at leastNov 26 21:23
gigantic-cowthistle like ubuntu ... oh wait, noNov 26 21:23
_goblingigantic-cow "lets get rid of all the toys trmanco and go back to the command line" - Well MS seem to think thats what people want....."Powershell"Nov 26 21:23
trmancohahaNov 26 21:23
trmanco^^Nov 26 21:24
gigantic-cow_goblin haha I can see you never used powershellNov 26 21:24
trmancoI tried that onceNov 26 21:24
gigantic-cow_goblin did you think it was bash?Nov 26 21:24
_goblingigantic-cow: why so?Nov 26 21:24
trmancoI like to BasgNov 26 21:24
trmancoBashNov 26 21:24
gigantic-cow_goblin its objects not text ... no need for all of that rubbish xargs stuff and sed ...Nov 26 21:24
gigantic-cow_goblin did you miss those?Nov 26 21:24
_goblingigantic-cow: What YOU seemed to miss was the bait to see your real intention here.Nov 26 21:25
gigantic-cow_goblin oh my real intention is plainNov 26 21:25
_goblingigantic-cow: thats trueNov 26 21:25
gigantic-cowto expose you guys for the narrow-minded jerks you areNov 26 21:25
*trmanco stupid fly that's on my screenNov 26 21:25
gigantic-cowand youre doing a bangup jobNov 26 21:25
gigantic-cowkeep goingNov 26 21:25
_goblingigantic-cow: ok thanks.Nov 26 21:25
trmanconarrow minded hunNov 26 21:26
_goblingigantic-cow: a minute ago you didn't say that about me...Nov 26 21:26
gigantic-cowone doesnt think VMs are any goodNov 26 21:26
trmancoso having your own opinion is now called "narrow minded"Nov 26 21:26
trmancoand they aren'tNov 26 21:26
gigantic-cow_goblin sorry didnt I greet you as troll?Nov 26 21:26
_goblingigantic-cow: yep...then appeared to change the stance...Nov 26 21:26
ThistleWeb_goblin: you missed the part about him coming here specifically for a fight then, I forgotNov 26 21:26
_goblingigantic-cow: like me to quote?Nov 26 21:26
gigantic-cow_goblin go aheadNov 26 21:26
gigantic-cowanother thinks everything should be C or ASMNov 26 21:27
gigantic-cowand all other languages are badNov 26 21:27
_goblingigantic-cow: Quote "well at least one of you has sense" - Thanks Mr Cow....Nov 26 21:27
gigantic-cowand we should not have language choiceNov 26 21:27
gigantic-cow_goblin and then you disproved me .... tskNov 26 21:27
gigantic-cowthen ender who has an irrational hatred along with cubezzzNov 26 21:27
_goblingigantic-cow: so you thought I was a troll, changed your mind then changed it back again?Nov 26 21:27
gigantic-cownice work showing that in publicNov 26 21:28
Ender2070you're such a trollNov 26 21:28
_goblingigantic-cow: youre doing a cracking job of exposing there Mr Cow.Nov 26 21:28
gigantic-cow_goblin no I knew you were a troll the whle time. question was, when would you show itNov 26 21:28
gigantic-cowender nice hatred.Nov 26 21:28
Ender2070lol irrational hatredNov 26 21:28
_goblingigantic-cow: ahhh  Why didn't you just say so....... Well I don't know about anyone else but Im convinced.Nov 26 21:28
gigantic-cowlets see ... then thistle and mincer who love roys stand against The Man but want to kickban anyone they diagree with ....Nov 26 21:29
Ender2070so i guess if you vote liberal you gotta love the republicans too?Nov 26 21:29
gigantic-cowin other words what a nice bunch you are ... so rational, so sensible ..... lolNov 26 21:29
trmancoJohannesburgNov 26 21:29
trmancoLOLNov 26 21:29
trmancothey have internet there, wow :-PNov 26 21:30
ThistleWebworld cup contracts perhaps?Nov 26 21:30
_goblingigantic-cow: Much as I respect the views of a user who calls themselves "gigantic-cow" and can't seem to make up their mind, I must get on with other things for a bit.  I hope you will be here when I return.Nov 26 21:30
gigantic-cowoh yes and thistle and trmanco and ender with the paranoia ... nice work on finding an IP .... scary hehNov 26 21:30
trmancoyou hide behind a proxy, hehNov 26 21:30
gigantic-cowtrmanco that is my ISP you doofusNov 26 21:31
trmancooh, that's so damn coolNov 26 21:31
trmancoI never said it wasn'tNov 26 21:31
trmancofrom your ispNov 26 21:31
gigantic-cowtrnamco no, you just thought it was a proxy.  hah.  great work detectiveNov 26 21:31
gigantic-cowor is that defective?Nov 26 21:31
trmancodunnoNov 26 21:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] UK PM's petition for marriage equality http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Gay-Marriage/Nov 26 21:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Introduction to e-petitions | Number10.gov.uk .::. Size~: 11.45 KBNov 26 21:32
gigantic-cowtrmanco what isnt a toy btw?  is monodevelop a toy?  full IDE to rival eclipse, is that a toy?Nov 26 21:32
Ender2070compared to eclipse? yesNov 26 21:33
gigantic-cowender you mean the IDE that cant switch tabs is least-recently-used order? nice IDE.Nov 26 21:34
Ender2070eclipse makes monodevelop look like visual basicNov 26 21:34
trmancooh... you named oneNov 26 21:34
trmancogot anymore?Nov 26 21:34
trmancoand I wonder why it looks so much like visual studioNov 26 21:34
gigantic-cowender have you used eclipse? cos everyone uses netbeans for a reason ...... eclipse plain is a jokeNov 26 21:34
gigantic-cowtrmanco quick its a conspiracyNov 26 21:35
gigantic-cowtell the pressNov 26 21:35
trmancoI just wonder why... it's no conspiracyNov 26 21:36
gigantic-cowit also looks like a bunch of other IDEs ... maybe because thats the best way to build them? or maybe its aliens.Nov 26 21:36
gigantic-cowwhy does abiword look like open office......Nov 26 21:37
trmancoI'm talking about a specific dialogNov 26 21:37
gigantic-cowtrmanco and what is your point?Nov 26 21:37
trmancojust wondering why it's so similar, plain and simpleNov 26 21:37
ThistleWebwhat can you say? MS like to be inovators, where they go, we all trail behind like lil ducklings....I wonder what they'd say if govts decided to only allow OSX and Linux users with Firefox to use their sites...."Microsoft inspired us"Nov 26 21:37
Ender2070its funny how you come here saying we arent open minded enough, but you're telling us monodevelop is god and low level programming is badNov 26 21:37
gigantic-cowmonodevelop is good .... low level programming is fine ....Nov 26 21:38
gigantic-cowwating to make moern OSes in asm is stupidNov 26 21:38
ThistleWebthey dont always inovate their own products either, they like to patent stuff invented by SOMEONE ELSENov 26 21:38
gigantic-cowunless you are doing embeddedNov 26 21:38
MinceRwell, obviously everyone must be open-minded enough to accept the One Microsoft WayNov 26 21:38
gigantic-cowthistle good conspiracy theory keep goingNov 26 21:38
ThistleWebunless rebranding is classed as inovation in the MS disctionaryNov 26 21:38
ThistleWebwouldn't be surprised, they like to hijack termsNov 26 21:39
Ender2070msft doesnt invent anything, they buy inventorsNov 26 21:39
gigantic-cowyes like the start buttonNov 26 21:39
gigantic-cowthey stole thatNov 26 21:39
ThistleWebor patent stuff the inventor either forgot to patent, or couldnt afford toNov 26 21:40
gigantic-cowthen gnome and kde .... they ..... uhhhh .... they "integrated" it into their desktopsNov 26 21:40
gigantic-cownot stoleNov 26 21:40
gigantic-cowFOSS implements and integratesNov 26 21:40
ThistleWebor imaginary stuff that's so broad as to cover a wide range of ideas invented later onNov 26 21:40
gigantic-cowit never steals ideasNov 26 21:40
gigantic-cowonly big bad corps do thatNov 26 21:40
Ender2070if you want to be technical, everyone stole from xeroxNov 26 21:40
gigantic-cowoh wait no, FOSS is INSPIRED by stuffNov 26 21:41
MinceRthere were some things everyone stole from Acorn though :>Nov 26 21:41
ThistleWebthe key of course is to ensure that others have to respect your patents, while you can ignore other peoplesNov 26 21:41
MinceRlike the panelNov 26 21:41
ThistleWebeverything is an evolution of something elseNov 26 21:43
ThistleWebit's why patents are wrong, there's very little in life that's totally uniqueNov 26 21:44
ThistleWebalmost everything comes from looking at something else and thinking "what if it did ....." or "what if ... worked like ....."Nov 26 21:44
Ender2070orNov 26 21:45
Ender2070"what if i buy his patent to sue people with"Nov 26 21:45
ThistleWeblol, yeahNov 26 21:45
ThistleWebimagine a world where a patent infringement accuser would have to pay both sides court fees and publicly declare exactly what the infringement wasNov 26 21:46
ThistleWebor a world where that accusation would automatically trigger a review of the patent to see if it was valid before any further action could take place, if not they lose the patentNov 26 21:48
ThistleWebor a world where each instance of patent abuse increases the amount they have to pay for further new patentsNov 26 21:48
ThistleWebit would be funny to see software patents abolished and the value of some companies just deflate to a fraction of their current size as their portfolio of ideas suddenly becomes worthlessNov 26 21:50
Ender2070it would never happenNov 26 21:51
Ender2070it would destroy your economyNov 26 21:51
ThistleWebI dunno about thatNov 26 21:51
Ender2070a large chunk of it is lawyer basedNov 26 21:51
Ender2070less lawsuits, less people hiring lawyersNov 26 21:52
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzNov 26 21:52
ThistleWebtrueNov 26 21:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] I’m tweeting banned text: "toxic waste in the Ivory Coast leading to the deaths of a number of people" #Trafigura http://tr.im/FBZiNov 26 21:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Tweet if you support us! Online flashmob  1pm, Thursday 26th November «  Don't Get Fooled Again .::. Size~: 53.43 KBNov 26 21:52
*threexk (n=threexk@173.21.228.124) has joined #boycottnovellNov 26 21:52
schestowitzHey, ThistleWebNov 26 21:53
ThistleWebhey schestowitz Nov 26 21:53
schestowitzWe should have left ops aroundNov 26 21:53
schestowitzMy bad...Nov 26 21:53
Ender2070patents would have to be replaced with something just as frivilous to throw lawsuits atNov 26 21:53
ThistleWebno worries, I ignored his ass ages agoNov 26 21:53
Ender2070to maintain balanceNov 26 21:53
ThistleWeba dodgy patent / IP system is as bad as third rate goods, both create wealth from unhappinessNov 26 21:54
schestowitzthreexk: jono was here a moment agoNov 26 21:55
schestowitzI'm still curious as to why he hangs out here, but it doesn't matter really (motives)Nov 26 21:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Watching Top Gear on iplayer in low quality flash cos HD cocking flash plays at about 1fps on my dual core, nvidia desktop. #flashsucks #fbNov 26 21:57
trmancololNov 26 21:57
trmancoflash does suckNov 26 21:57
gigantic-cowlets use silverlightNov 26 21:58
trmancolet use open videoNov 26 21:58
trmancoletsNov 26 21:58
gigantic-cowok, that tooNov 26 21:58
MinceRlet's use standard static html and cssNov 26 21:58
gigantic-cowmincer no lets use the command lineNov 26 21:58
gigantic-cowwatch using aalibNov 26 21:58
MinceRand use those GBs of RAM and modern CPUs for something worthwhileNov 26 21:58
gigantic-cowlike ircNov 26 21:58
trmancoyou seem to like the command lineNov 26 21:59
gigantic-cowgrew up with itNov 26 21:59
schestowitzthreexk: the issue needs looking back at 2008 and codecsNov 26 21:59
MinceRnot reallyNov 26 21:59
MinceRyou might have been with it, but it's certain that you haven't grown upNov 26 21:59
trmanco:>Nov 26 22:00
gigantic-cowmincer just slightly older than you then? it showsNov 26 22:00
gigantic-cowmincer nice attempts to kickban btw. real maturity there.Nov 26 22:00
schestowitzgigantic-cow: you're a trollNov 26 22:00
gigantic-cowa bit, yesNov 26 22:00
schestowitzBy definitionNov 26 22:00
gigantic-cowand I say unpopular things here tooNov 26 22:01
ThistleWeblol, he's still here thenNov 26 22:01
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] does Pidgin have a tab complete plugin for nicks or screenames?Nov 26 22:01
gigantic-cowquestion is, are they factual? and they areNov 26 22:01
ThistleWebthat answers the question of "if you ignore someone do they show up when you get a /names list?"Nov 26 22:01
schestowitzgigantic-cow: learn about truth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY2Z27Y-HJENov 26 22:08
_goblingigantic-cow: Is your purpose here to "expose", as you said earlier?Nov 26 22:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] anyone got adblocking actually working in midori?Nov 26 22:09
gigantic-cow_goblin sureNov 26 22:10
_goblingigantic-cow: and in expose you mean people in BN IRC?Nov 26 22:10
gigantic-cow_goblin no people on a different irc channel totally .......Nov 26 22:10
gigantic-cowbut theres not much needNov 26 22:11
gigantic-cowyoure doing fine job yourselvesNov 26 22:11
gigantic-cowplenty of bigotry and irrationalityNov 26 22:11
_goblingigantic-cow: Would it be fair though to see importance of exposing a view that differs from yours?Nov 26 22:11
_goblin*say not seeNov 26 22:11
gigantic-cow_goblin sureNov 26 22:11
gigantic-cow_goblin which is all Ive doneNov 26 22:12
gigantic-cowand the views here are greatNov 26 22:12
_goblingigantic-cow: and would it also be fair to say that you hold in contempt the views of everyone you have spoken to here?Nov 26 22:12
gigantic-cow_goblin youve got a good view on F# ....... and roy can be good to talk to .... the rest are crazyNov 26 22:12
*schestowitz has kicked gigantic-cow from #boycottnovell (User terminated!)Nov 26 22:13
_goblinRoy............nooooooooooooooNov 26 22:13
MinceRlol, sucking up failNov 26 22:13
_goblinyou interupted my cross examination...Nov 26 22:13
schestowitzDivide and conquer. Typical troll tacticNov 26 22:13
_goblinI had him....Nov 26 22:13
schestowitzSorry./Nov 26 22:13
_goblinschestowitz: lol.Nov 26 22:13
schestowitzMinceR pressured meNov 26 22:13
ThistleWebhe'll be backNov 26 22:13
MinceR^_^Nov 26 22:13
_goblinschestowitz: the best fun Ive had tonight...Nov 26 22:13
schestowitzNot with same nameNov 26 22:13
schestowitzWatch ISPNov 26 22:13
MinceRi should have pressured you harderNov 26 22:14
MinceRthere was a lot of crap flowing hereNov 26 22:14
_goblinschestowitz: you must know by now that I love a cross-examination......Nov 26 22:14
schestowitzI came back just trying to catch up with stuff.... to do 3 postsNov 26 22:14
schestowitz_goblin: you do it for a living, I reckonNov 26 22:14
_goblinschestowitz: not really.Nov 26 22:14
schestowitzoh _Really_?Nov 26 22:15
_goblinschestowitz: I don't cross examine anyone.Nov 26 22:15
schestowitzORLY? :-)Nov 26 22:15
_goblinschestowitz: in a court that is.Nov 26 22:15
ThistleWeb_goblin is just an avid Matlock fan ;)Nov 26 22:16
_goblinlolNov 26 22:16
_goblinhow did you guess?Nov 26 22:16
_goblinand Rumpole of the BaileyNov 26 22:16
_goblinand Miss MarpleNov 26 22:16
_goblinoh and "Murder she wrote"Nov 26 22:16
ThistleWebcan't forget the masters of detection.......scooby doo and the gangNov 26 22:20
ThistleWebnothing gets passed themNov 26 22:21
ThistleWebeven a dude in a sheet somehow managing to flyNov 26 22:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] the revenge of cat le-huy http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSTRE5AP1L120091126Nov 26 22:22
_goblinok...I'll admit it...if anyone wants to know my true identity: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qI3s3Re9mP0/Sczd_BW4hdI/AAAAAAAACqY/QYfeb4C4rVY/s400/signoraingiallo02_art.jpgNov 26 22:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 26 22:22
MinceRthat's no goblin!Nov 26 22:23
_goblin:)Nov 26 22:25
_goblinI think I prefer my previous title of 00Goblin license to FOSS.Nov 26 22:25
*MinceR rolls his eyesNov 26 22:26
trmanco:>I prefer the gplNov 26 22:26
MinceRshould have been a license to kill -9 or a license to killallNov 26 22:26
_goblinby the way....in respect of F#....speaking as a guitarist.....its the one chord that most beginners that I try to teach have difficulty with...Nov 26 22:27
_goblinoh and for the shills, that teach for free, as a hobby...Im not claiming to be a guitar teacher.Nov 26 22:27
MinceR"My favorite tone... Be Flat!"Nov 26 22:27
ThistleWeb_goblin: I dunno, I always hated the B family personally, that forced 4 fingers, sometimes in awkward shapesNov 26 22:28
_goblin.... Recently bought myself another BC Rich Warlock.....Nov 26 22:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] unless this works....Nov 26 22:29
_goblinwhat a nasty/evil guitar that is.Nov 26 22:29
ThistleWebyeah, it's a RAWK!! shapeNov 26 22:29
_goblinsmack it into an 8080 and it'll make your eardrums bleed...Nov 26 22:29
ThistleWebwhich is fine if that's what you likeNov 26 22:30
_goblinand now Im inspired for a bit of Spinal tap: "Don't need a woman, I won't take me no wifeNov 26 22:32
_goblinI get the rock and roll and that'll be my lifeNov 26 22:32
_goblinNo page in history baby- that, I don't needNov 26 22:32
_goblinI just want to make some eardrums bleed"Nov 26 22:32
_goblina classic....Nov 26 22:32
schestowitz[22:26] <MinceR> should have been a license to kill -9 or a license to killallNov 26 22:33
schestowitzGermany and England forbid nmapNov 26 22:33
schestowitzIf you're a researcher maybe you can get a 'licence' for thatNov 26 22:33
MinceRor you could move to a less fascistic countryNov 26 22:33
schestowitzAs if a licence will actually prevent people's use of some binaries......Nov 26 22:33
schestowitzThey just criminalise distrosNov 26 22:34
schestowitzMinceR: any such coutnries left?Nov 26 22:34
MinceRi'm not sureNov 26 22:34
MinceRi'm looking for themNov 26 22:34
schestowitzI had two conversations about it in the gym.... the UK goes the same way as the US, police state...Nov 26 22:34
MinceRwhen i have a little time for that, that isNov 26 22:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Reader’s Article: #Vista7 Versus Vista http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/26/vista-failure-news/Nov 26 22:35
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellNov 26 22:38
*threexk (n=threexk@173.21.228.124) has left #boycottnovellNov 26 22:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NotN: Jordan eats kangaroo's anus http://notnews.today.com/?p=754Nov 26 22:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Jordan eats kangaroos anus  - News of the News .::. Size~: 35.24 KBNov 26 22:51
cubezzzgigantic-pain left?Nov 26 22:51
trmancohe took the bootNov 26 22:52
cubezzzah, that was expectedNov 26 22:52
MinceRit was expected soonerNov 26 22:53
*sebsebseb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Nov 26 23:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell Supports #GNU #Linux -Hostile Software, NASA Excludes With it After Microsoft MoU http://ur1.ca/glpzNov 26 23:18
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Novell Supports GNU/Linux-Hostile Software, NASA Excludes With it After Microsoft MoU | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 115.58 KBNov 26 23:18
oiaohmhttp://oiaohm.blogspot.com/2009/11/big-issue-to-open-source-i-am-important.htmlNov 26 23:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Oiaohm Battle Ground: Big issue to Open Source.  I am Important. .::. Size~: 65.37 KBNov 26 23:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] I thought part of the deal behind the SDK was a gagging order that you couldn't discuss this stuff http://tinyurl.com/ydlpygfNov 26 23:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Breakfast briefing: on the dark side, the Mac side, the Windows side, and in paper | Technology | guardian.co.uk http://tinyurl.com/ylqhbgxNov 26 23:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Researchers Show That #Patents Can Harm Society (New Study) http://ur1.ca/glr2Nov 26 23:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Researchers Show That Patents Can Harm Society (New Study) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 111.44 KBNov 26 23:36
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/26/corel_holdings_buys_corel_corp/Nov 26 23:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Corel Holdings scoops up cash-strapped Corel Corp • The Register .::. Size~: 27.57 KBNov 26 23:37
schestowitz"Oiaohm Battle Ground"Nov 26 23:38
oiaohmMy blog just my zone for my annoyances schestowitzNov 26 23:40
ThistleWebwhen I first read that earlier I thought it was "how parents can harm society" lolNov 26 23:45
ThistleWebwhich can also be trueNov 26 23:45
oiaohmI still have to do the one on bugzilla yet.   Simple fact bugzilla are full of bugs mostly duplicates so developers waste too much time going threw them.  If people who post a bug searches for and remove 2 duplicate bugs from the stack lot of bugzilla problems would disappear.Nov 26 23:47
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/26/turkey_thief/Nov 26 23:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Police smoke out 300-pound frozen turkey thief • The Register .::. Size~: 27.28 KBNov 26 23:51
schestowitzoiaohm: yeah, will link to it laterNov 26 23:51
schestowitzThistleWeb: but everyone has/had parentsNov 26 23:52
schestowitzIn fact, each and every person's parents and grandparents never ever died so youngNov 26 23:52
ThistleWebschestowitz: yeah lolNov 26 23:52
*Omar87 (n=quassel@86.108.127.9) has joined #boycottnovellNov 26 23:53
schestowitzExcept Mary of course. She had no ascendantsNov 26 23:53
oiaohmI have read a physicolagy paper titled "how parents can harm society"Nov 26 23:53
schestowitzAdam and Eve were made by a random number generatorNov 26 23:53
oiaohmIt was deal with abuse and bigitory.Nov 26 23:53
oiaohmRemember when we are a child we have no idea what race descrimination is we are taught that.Nov 26 23:54
schestowitzANother interesting fact:Nov 26 23:54
schestowitzAt least one molecule in your body has passed through the bladder of someone you know from historyNov 26 23:54
schestowitzAnd none of the molecules in your body was there in you when you were young, even though you can remember being "there" at the time.Nov 26 23:55
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/26/spinvox_layoffs/Nov 26 23:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: SpinVox puts spin on layoff rumours • The Register .::. Size~: 23.57 KBNov 26 23:55
oiaohmschestowitz: don't be sure if they can remember on not.  Quantium mechanics gets very confusing.Nov 26 23:56
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/26/google_italy_trial/Nov 26 23:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Italian prosecutors seek jail time for Google execs • The Register .::. Size~: 28.6 KBNov 26 23:57
schestowitzThat's a little extreme, no?Nov 26 23:57
schestowitzThey should seek jail time for crime-doers like Bill and SteveNov 26 23:57
oiaohmAnd Quantium mechanices is not the smallest bit that makes up an atom.  schestowitz  So something in there still could have a time base memory.Nov 26 23:57
schestowitzThey also have proof to show personal liabilityNov 26 23:57
schestowitzQuantium mechanics has different rulesNov 26 23:57
schestowitzThe realm of the very small has a probabilistic modelNov 26 23:58
schestowitzEistein spent 20 years of his life fighting against it in vain.Nov 26 23:58
schestowitzHe was wrongNov 26 23:58
schestowitzThose who succeeded his work failed as wellNov 26 23:58
schestowitzPeople only remember what Einstein said that was rightNov 26 23:58
schestowitzEsp. his unified theory attempts after days as a patent clerkNov 26 23:58
schestowitzI also came to realise he was highly competitive and not so politeNov 26 23:59
schestowitzHistory tends to iconify people differently. "History will be kind to me for I intend to write it." Sir Winston Churchill British politician (1874 - 1965). Nov 26 23:59

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