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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 28th, 2009

*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovellNov 28 00:01
cubezzzI don't get into Gnome vs KDE argumentsNov 28 00:18
cubezzzI use both anywayNov 28 00:19
MinceRi use KDE with a couple Gnome apps and componentsNov 28 00:19
cubezzzyeah, I liked Star Wars in the 70's but I've moved on :)Nov 28 00:20
oiaohmover the years I have noticed I am using less and less gnome/gtk applications.Nov 28 00:22
cubezzztext mode ftw!Nov 28 00:22
cubezzz;-)Nov 28 00:22
oiaohmOnce firefox and openoffice get QT support only thing will be gimp I use for something that needs gtk.Nov 28 00:22
cubezzzor notNov 28 00:22
oiaohmKinda impossiable to get rid of gtk when using the app it was designed for.Nov 28 00:23
cubezzzyou guys are too modern :)Nov 28 00:23
cubezzzCMS was pretty nice too Nov 28 00:25
cubezzzon IBM 4381 :)Nov 28 00:25
cubezzzI liked xeditNov 28 00:26
cubezzzwho knows about CMS?Nov 28 00:27
Diablo-D3lolNov 28 00:28
Diablo-D3oiaohm is in #winehqNov 28 00:28
cubezzzah, young kids these daysNov 28 00:29
oiaohmWhat is new about that.Nov 28 00:29
oiaohmDiablo-D3: I have been in that channel since 2002 with the name oiaohm  I was in there earily with a different nameNov 28 00:30
oiaohmSame with winehq forums.Nov 28 00:30
oiaohmI have been in the forum since it started.Nov 28 00:30
Diablo-D3oiaohm: nothing, I just saw you thereNov 28 00:30
*ThistleWeb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Nov 28 00:31
oiaohmI am also one recurters of support people for winehq and ops.Nov 28 00:31
oiaohmYes so a lot of time I am sitting back and watching Diablo-D3Nov 28 00:32
cubezzzit's a bummer I can't buy ASUS EEE PC without getting windowsNov 28 00:34
Diablo-D3cubezzz: you can get it with linuxNov 28 00:34
cubezzzDiablo-D3, all the ones I see have dozeNov 28 00:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 Crashes on Certain Hardware, Stifles #Samba Compatibility http://ur1.ca/gnswNov 28 00:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Vista 7 Crashes on Certain Hardware, Stifles Samba Compatibility | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 111.01 KBNov 28 00:35
cubezzzlooking on shopbot.ca now thoughNov 28 00:35
Diablo-D3and there are other atom netbooks out thereNov 28 00:37
MinceRasus bent over for m$, so it's probably a lot more difficult nowNov 28 00:37
cubezzzas far as I can see, none of the retailers are selling newer models of ASUS EEE PC with LinuxNov 28 00:37
MinceRyes, there are inferior atom netbooks out there :>Nov 28 00:37
Diablo-D3eee was just the first major sellerNov 28 00:38
Diablo-D3everyone has one nowNov 28 00:38
cubezzz"ASUS recommends Windows 7"Nov 28 00:40
cubezzzthere's a new model 1101HANov 28 00:40
cubezzzah, you can select the OSNov 28 00:41
cubezzzok, so at least I can order from ca.asus.comNov 28 00:41
Diablo-D3yeah, if you can order directly from a manuf, do itNov 28 00:41
MinceRhttp://www.27bslash6.com/p2p.htmlNov 28 00:41
cubezzzah no, that's not the case :-/Nov 28 00:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: "It's like twitter. Except we charge people to use it." .::. Size~: 24.26 KBNov 28 00:41
Diablo-D3ynless they're really screwing youNov 28 00:41
Diablo-D3awwNov 28 00:42
cubezzzDiablo-D3, nope, no Linux version possibleNov 28 00:42
cubezzznot even from ASUSNov 28 00:42
Diablo-D3um, I know people who own themNov 28 00:42
cubezzzyes, older models had Linux Nov 28 00:42
MinceRum, those people might have bought them earlier :>Nov 28 00:43
Diablo-D3[07:34:45] <Diablo-D3> and there are other atom netbooks out thereNov 28 00:43
Diablo-D3[07:34:45] <Diablo-D3> and there are other atom netbooks out thereNov 28 00:43
Diablo-D3[07:34:45] <Diablo-D3> and there are other atom netbooks out thereNov 28 00:43
Diablo-D3[07:34:45] <Diablo-D3> and there are other atom netbooks out thereNov 28 00:43
cubezzzthey are on ebayNov 28 00:43
Diablo-D3cubezzz: widen your search, asshole.Nov 28 00:43
Diablo-D3asus isnt the only companyNov 28 00:43
MinceRDiablo-D3: nobody is interesting in your floodNov 28 00:43
Diablo-D3do business with someone else.Nov 28 00:43
Diablo-D3its like logic is a totally fucking alien concept here sometimesNov 28 00:43
cubezzzyou're not making any sense Diablo-D3Nov 28 00:43
MinceRyou don't seem to know what "logic" meansNov 28 00:43
cubezzzthey aren't available, periodNov 28 00:44
Diablo-D3cubezzz: no, they _were_ availableNov 28 00:44
Diablo-D3if they're no longer available, who caresNov 28 00:44
cubezzz...Nov 28 00:44
Diablo-D3all atom netbooks are basically the sameNov 28 00:45
Diablo-D3if asus doesnt have what you want, someone else doesNov 28 00:45
oiaohmMost reason why windows is on these devices is price.  Refund of windows on a EEE PC is 6 dollars.Nov 28 00:45
Diablo-D3and you dont even need to grab atom eitherNov 28 00:45
Diablo-D3theres ARM netbooks out there as wellNov 28 00:45
Diablo-D3or if you wanna stick with x86, theres a few nanos as wellNov 28 00:45
oiaohmIts really a major case of descrimination.Nov 28 00:45
Diablo-D3but I forget who fromNov 28 00:45
cubezzzno ARM is goodNov 28 00:45
Diablo-D3oiaohm: wellNov 28 00:45
Diablo-D3windows wouldnt be so badNov 28 00:46
Diablo-D3they could use embedded XPNov 28 00:46
MinceRlol viaNov 28 00:46
Diablo-D3problem is, it doesnt have the "miniature 10 foot interface"Nov 28 00:46
oiaohmThe XP Asus gets is cheaper than I can aquire embedded XP for and its a full XP home.Nov 28 00:46
Diablo-D3windows isn't suited for smaller displays far from your faceNov 28 00:47
cubezzzARM netbook would be greatNov 28 00:47
Diablo-D3neither is normal linuxNov 28 00:47
Diablo-D3android almost is, but for different reasonsNov 28 00:47
cubezzzno, the point is I'm not buying windows periodNov 28 00:47
Diablo-D3its actually suited for a much smaller displayNov 28 00:47
cubezzzno wayNov 28 00:47
oiaohmEmbeded XP is 15 dollars pre unit Diablo-D3Nov 28 00:47
Diablo-D3cubezzz: I dont care what something runs as long as it worksNov 28 00:47
Diablo-D3oiaohm: yes, if you _buy_ itNov 28 00:47
Diablo-D3who the fuck buys shit anymoreNov 28 00:47
Diablo-D3when microsoft sells windows on steam, and steam has a $2.50 sale for windows, Ill own a legal copy of it.Nov 28 00:48
Diablo-D3until then, microsoft can suck my dickNov 28 00:48
oiaohmFew consoles and things I do up customer demards windows.Nov 28 00:48
Diablo-D3anyhow, you're missing the point of what I was sayingNov 28 00:48
cubezzzlook, simple, I'm not going to be forced to get a windows anything :)Nov 28 00:48
Diablo-D3windows does not have a desktop environment suited for the uniqueness of a netbookNov 28 00:49
oiaohmMost of the time the end up using Linux.Nov 28 00:49
cubezzzsure, I agree with you Diablo-D3Nov 28 00:49
Diablo-D3this is the only reason why I dont want it on oneNov 28 00:49
Diablo-D3I dont know why they even bother selling itNov 28 00:49
Diablo-D3see, theres this thing called a ten foot interfaceNov 28 00:49
Diablo-D3its where a UI can be useful on a large or medium screen ten feet awayNov 28 00:49
oiaohmMS will not large scale oem supply to companies that will ship hardware without a OS cubezzzNov 28 00:50
cubezzzI guess I'll go Lemote, if I can find oneNov 28 00:50
Diablo-D3netbooks and modern "large" smartphones (iphone etc) suffer from the same problemNov 28 00:50
cubezzzor just waitNov 28 00:50
Diablo-D3you have the display far from your faceNov 28 00:50
oiaohmReally the option of buying hardware without a OS should be there.Nov 28 00:50
Diablo-D3ergo, small hard intricate UIs are badNov 28 00:50
Diablo-D3I'd actually like to see a windows remix that is for ten foot interfacesNov 28 00:50
cubezzzactually there is one, netwalkerNov 28 00:50
cubezzzbut it's a bit priceyNov 28 00:50
cubezzzforgot about that oneNov 28 00:51
Diablo-D3but microsoft wont do itNov 28 00:51
Diablo-D3they're quite happy losing to linuxNov 28 00:51
Diablo-D3think Im looney? why else would they let the largest new market in a very long time slip through?\Nov 28 00:51
Diablo-D3microsoft is getting severely cockblocked by linux hereNov 28 00:51
cubezzzthere was all sorts of zauruses with LinuxNov 28 00:52
Diablo-D3zaurus ran linux, duhNov 28 00:52
Diablo-D3a special distro for itNov 28 00:52
cubezzzbut not in Canada (as far as I could tell)Nov 28 00:52
cubezzzit's beyond odd that I can buy a Linux anything in a retail store, don't you think?Nov 28 00:52
cubezzzcan'tNov 28 00:53
cubezzzsomething very wrong thereNov 28 00:53
cubezzznot unless you importNov 28 00:53
_goblinIts the same (in the main) over in the UK...Nov 28 00:53
_goblinvery little alternative to MS in the highstreetNov 28 00:53
_goblin(in terms of desktop PC)Nov 28 00:54
cubezzzthere's nothing!Nov 28 00:54
cubezzznot very little, nothing Nov 28 00:54
_goblinit was always strange to me that the EU tackled the browzer issue as anti-trust and not the OEM one...Nov 28 00:54
_goblin*browserNov 28 00:54
_goblin............Nov 28 00:55
_goblinfinally!Nov 28 00:55
_goblinIve got around to finding out what "All your base are belong to us"Nov 28 00:55
_goblinmeansNov 28 00:55
Diablo-D3what, seriously?Nov 28 00:55
_goblinyepNov 28 00:55
Diablo-D3it means all your base, it belongs to themNov 28 00:55
_goblinlolNov 28 00:55
_goblinI know that...Nov 28 00:55
*MinceR sets Diablo-D3 up the bombNov 28 00:55
_goblinbut why is it a popular phrase....Nov 28 00:56
Diablo-D3main screen turn on!Nov 28 00:56
_goblinwhat does it mean...Nov 28 00:56
_goblinnow I know....Nov 28 00:56
cubezzzzero wing, an old sega game, had bad translationNov 28 00:56
Diablo-D3take off every zig!Nov 28 00:56
Diablo-D3http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_usNov 28 00:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: All your base are belong to us - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 41.35 KBNov 28 00:56
_goblinyepNov 28 00:56
Diablo-D3lol wikipedia :DNov 28 00:56
Diablo-D3http://allyour.basearebelongto.us/AYB3.swfNov 28 00:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting application/x-shockwave-flash type .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 28 00:56
Diablo-D3THE CLASSICNov 28 00:56
Diablo-D3man I havent seen this since likeNov 28 00:57
Diablo-D3the 90sNov 28 00:57
_goblinI thought it had something to do with the borg.....Nov 28 00:57
Diablo-D3which is like 100 years agoNov 28 00:57
MinceRat least 100 years agoNov 28 00:57
cubezzzno, 90's is recent :)Nov 28 00:57
cubezzzold is 60'sNov 28 00:57
cubezzzmagnetic core memory is oldNov 28 00:58
MinceRhttp://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/At_least_100_years_agoNov 28 00:58
phIRCe-BNcTitle: At least 100 years ago - Encyclopedia Dramatica .::. Size~: 36.88 KBNov 28 00:58
Diablo-D3no, 60s is like, dinosaurs roaming the earthNov 28 00:58
Diablo-D3ed++Nov 28 00:58
MinceRdinosaurs still roam the earthNov 28 00:58
Diablo-D3NNNEWWMMNAAAAAAN!Nov 28 00:58
cubezzz60's was good :)Nov 28 00:59
cubezzzlots of jobs Nov 28 00:59
cubezzzthere's used Linux ASUS EEE PC, but with the tiny 7 inch screenNov 28 01:00
Diablo-D3FINDNov 28 01:01
Diablo-D3OTHERNov 28 01:01
Diablo-D3NETBOOKNov 28 01:01
Diablo-D3MANUFACTURERSNov 28 01:01
cubezzzI'm lookingNov 28 01:01
Diablo-D3theres at least 9001 netbooks out thereNov 28 01:01
cubezzz"Linux netbook" is the searchNov 28 01:01
Diablo-D3asus isnt even a major player anymoreNov 28 01:01
oiaohmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_core_memory  1947 is the first patent on magnetic core memory.Nov 28 01:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Magnetic core memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 52.57 KBNov 28 01:01
cubezzzstill in use in the 60's oiaohmNov 28 01:02
oiaohmNo it techically pre 60'sNov 28 01:03
Diablo-D3its about the time your mom was getting laidNov 28 01:03
Diablo-D3by meNov 28 01:03
Diablo-D3with my time machineNov 28 01:03
oiaohmphosor storage appears in the 60s and comes the CRT screen we know that is disappearing and will reapear in pled tech.Nov 28 01:03
Diablo-D3naw manNov 28 01:04
Diablo-D3by the time captain kirk gets the enterpriseNov 28 01:04
Diablo-D3CRT will be back en vogueNov 28 01:04
cubezzz"In 1980, the price of a 16 kW (kiloword, equivalent to 32kB) core memory board that fitted into a DEC Q-bus computer was around USD 3000."Nov 28 01:04
cubezzzobviously still in use in the 60's, and afterNov 28 01:04
oiaohmBe very careful on that.Nov 28 01:06
cubezzzok then, another example:Nov 28 01:07
cubezzzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_7030Nov 28 01:07
phIRCe-BNcTitle: IBM 7030 Stretch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 38.75 KBNov 28 01:08
oiaohmCore memory was heavly used in the 50's  Started dieing in the 60 with valve and transistor tech.   Was most gone bar a few cost cut systems  and specialist  by the 1970's and 80's.Nov 28 01:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FSpot ( #Mono ) Can Still be Removed from Next #Ubuntu http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/27/canonical-at-crossroads/Nov 28 01:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: F-Spot (Mono) Can Still be Removed from Next Ubuntu | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.71 KBNov 28 01:10
oiaohmIe strangely enough core memory is more tollerent to emp cubezzzNov 28 01:10
cubezzzI think my earliest PCs were DRAMNov 28 01:12
cubezzzstatic RAMs(1024 x 1 bits) in the KIM-1Nov 28 01:12
Ender2070cubezzz, MinceR - i try to stick with apps of native frameworks due to how well they integrate (kmail, kopete, konversation, konquerer, all integrate well especially with notifications)Nov 28 01:12
schestowitz[00:46] <MinceR> lol viaNov 28 01:12
schestowitzVIA is just shorthand for VoilaNov 28 01:13
oiaohmDram is capacitor/transistor based cubezzzNov 28 01:13
cubezzzoiaohm, yesNov 28 01:13
Ender2070doesnt prevent me from using transmission on kde thoNov 28 01:13
Ender2070or firefoxNov 28 01:13
cubezzzc64 had ummm, 64kx1's Nov 28 01:13
Ender2070but i would prefer a kde integrated firefox and transmission :)Nov 28 01:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[tracyrreed] Black Friday is a severely overrated marketing scam designed to take advantage of those easily parted with their money. Just FYI.Nov 28 01:14
oiaohmAlso you have to watch out for specs of machines in the 1960's as well.  Some use the term core memory to define the size of the memory connected to the direct process.  ie not hardware.  cubezzzNov 28 01:15
oiaohmprocess/processorNov 28 01:15
cubezzzif it's little donuts, it's magnetic core, AFAIKNov 28 01:16
oiaohmYep.Nov 28 01:16
oiaohmComputer world is horid at over lapping terms.Nov 28 01:17
cubezzzwe learnt about magnetic core in HS but as you pointed out, it was pretty well obsolete by thenNov 28 01:18
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/27/daily_web_host_defacement/Nov 28 01:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Web host Daily recovers after Tux-themed defacement • The Register .::. Size~: 27.04 KBNov 28 01:21
*Tallken has quit ("Leaving")Nov 28 01:21
Ender2070I might get to meet aseigo :DNov 28 01:22
oiaohmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_memory  Did you learn about this stuff cubezzzNov 28 01:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bubble memory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 39.24 KBNov 28 01:22
cubezzzmy era was really the DRAM eraNov 28 01:23
schestowitzEnder2070: wow. get an autograph and touch him !!! j/kNov 28 01:23
Ender2070LOL!Nov 28 01:23
schestowitzTake a towel he wiped his hands with...Nov 28 01:24
schestowitzAnd chewed up gum...Nov 28 01:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @tracyrreed don't you feel Black Friday's shopping trance?Nov 28 01:24
Ender2070hahahahaNov 28 01:24
schestowitzBritney gum up for sale on eBay < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/entertainment/3604616.stm >Nov 28 01:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 93.7 KBNov 28 01:24
Ender2070im going to try getting a pictureNov 28 01:24
cubezzzyes, there was some use of bubble memory in the 80'sNov 28 01:26
cubezzznot common thoughNov 28 01:28
schestowitzHappy Black Friday. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ds_vader.JPG Remember to buy a lot of very expensive stuff you don't need (at a discount) to save the economy.Nov 28 01:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: File:Ds vader.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 20.34 KBNov 28 01:28
tessierI dropped my wife off at the mall last night at midnight. She has never experienced "black friday" before. Now she too realizes it is overrated.Nov 28 01:30
cubezzzearly micros went from static ram -> dynamic ramNov 28 01:31
cubezzzand...Nov 28 01:33
cubezzzRAMAC FTW!Nov 28 01:33
cubezzzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BRL61-IBM_305_RAMAC.jpegNov 28 01:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: File:BRL61-IBM 305 RAMAC.jpeg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 25.65 KBNov 28 01:33
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10405523-92.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea.0Nov 28 01:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: EU hearing on Oracle-Sun set for Dec. 10 | Business Tech - CNET News .::. Size~: 83.29 KBNov 28 01:35
oiaohmYep hardrive/drum system cubezzzNov 28 01:36
oiaohmmagnetic core was gone very early on.Nov 28 01:36
schestowitzhttp://infoworld.com/d/cloud-computing/google-chrome-os-infoworlds-visual-tour-532Nov 28 01:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Google Chrome OS: InfoWorld's visual tour | Cloud Computing - InfoWorld .::. Size~: 72.37 KBNov 28 01:38
*Balrog_ has quit ("bye")Nov 28 01:45
*_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat")Nov 28 02:04
Ender2070http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/11/27/2123243/Google-Attack-On-the-Mobile-Market-RumoredNov 28 02:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot Mobile Story |  Google Attack On the Mobile Market Rumored .::. Size~: 141.73 KBNov 28 02:06
cubezzzthe microsoft ads on linuxdevices.com are gallingNov 28 02:07
cubezzzthere's this $80 thingNov 28 02:09
cubezzzMenq Easypc E790Nov 28 02:09
cubezzzARM cpu Nov 28 02:10
cubezzzprobably be a flood of stuff in 2010Nov 28 02:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] What the #BillGates-Backed #Monsanto Does to Animals, Farmers, Food, and Patent Systems http://ur1.ca/gnwhNov 28 02:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Black Friday Film: What the Bill Gates-Backed Monsanto Does to Animals, Farmers, Food, and Patent Systems | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 112.36 KBNov 28 02:22
cubezzzI guess I'll waitNov 28 02:22
schestowitzDaemonFC has not been here today. Maybe he was stampeded and hospitalised like he predictedNov 28 02:30
*DaemonFC (i=none@c-69-245-242-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellNov 28 02:34
cubezzz!!!Nov 28 02:34
Ender2070LOLNov 28 02:35
Ender2070I can agree with apple for once: http://consumerist.com/2009/11/smoking-near-apple-computers-creates-biohazard-voids-warranty.htmlNov 28 02:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Smoking Near Apple Computers Creates Biohazard, Voids Warranty - The Consumerist .::. Size~: 165.47 KBNov 28 02:35
DaemonFCEnder2070: I got my TVNov 28 02:35
DaemonFCthey had 44 TVs and about 2,000 people in the store :PNov 28 02:36
Ender2070I refused to fix computers that had too much smoker dust insideNov 28 02:36
DaemonFCit's a nice set thoughNov 28 02:36
Ender2070at my old workplace, my manager backed me upNov 28 02:36
Ender2070i shouldn't have to touch that disgusting crapNov 28 02:36
DaemonFCApple employee that told me he wasn't fixing my computer cause I smoked would be in more danger in his workplaceNov 28 02:37
DaemonFCB-)Nov 28 02:37
DaemonFCtouching a surface with nicotine on it is not a biohazardNov 28 02:38
DaemonFCnuclear waste or Ebola areNov 28 02:38
DaemonFCtree hugging hippy crap :PNov 28 02:38
Ender2070i would tell you to take your pc elsewhereNov 28 02:38
Ender2070i would say it is a biohazardNov 28 02:38
schestowitz[02:30] <schestowitz> DaemonFC has not been here today. Maybe he was stampeded and hospitalised like he predictedNov 28 02:38
schestowitzNov 28 02:38
schestowitz[02:34] --> DaemonFC has joined this channel (i=none@c-69-245-242-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net).Nov 28 02:38
cubezzzI saw a motherboard with mouse turds on the cpu :)Nov 28 02:38
schestowitzTook you 4 minutes.......Nov 28 02:38
Ender2070i've refused computers with turds in them (mouse turds)Nov 28 02:39
cubezzznot sure if that qualifies as a biohazard :)Nov 28 02:39
Ender2070hellNov 28 02:39
Ender2070the worst thing I refused was a pc with a dead bird insideNov 28 02:39
Ender2070the guy had no clue, how a bird got into his pcNov 28 02:39
schestowitzMaybe the PC speakerNov 28 02:39
schestowitzIt tweetsNov 28 02:40
Ender2070"stop using windows" i saidNov 28 02:40
Ender2070lolNov 28 02:40
cubezzzwell, when a computer is stored in a garage you can easily get miceNov 28 02:40
schestowitzIt could get fried with the RAMNov 28 02:40
schestowitzWas it a tower?Nov 28 02:40
Ender2070tower it wasNov 28 02:40
schestowitzAnd was it lying on the bottom perpendicular to the mobo?Nov 28 02:40
Ender2070yeahNov 28 02:41
schestowitzAnd still, how the _heck_ does a bird get inside?Nov 28 02:41
Ender2070same with the mouse turdsNov 28 02:41
schestowitzAnd one doesn't notice?Nov 28 02:41
schestowitzSounds like a hoaxNov 28 02:41
cubezzzhumming bird maybe? :)Nov 28 02:41
Ender2070it does sound crazyNov 28 02:41
cubezzzthey're pretty smallNov 28 02:41
Ender2070thats the pointNov 28 02:41
Ender2070how the fuck does a dead bird get inside a pcNov 28 02:42
Ender2070lolNov 28 02:42
Ender2070maybe he had a kid who was hiding itNov 28 02:42
schestowitzWhere do you buy your PCs?Nov 28 02:42
schestowitzLeaving a screw/drivers in it is commonNov 28 02:42
Ender2070it was a customers i was fixingNov 28 02:42
schestowitzSame with hospital patientsNov 28 02:42
schestowitzA kid?Nov 28 02:43
Ender2070i dunnoNov 28 02:43
schestowitzWhy would a kid unscrew a box and put a bird in it?Nov 28 02:43
Ender2070kids are stupidNov 28 02:43
schestowitzYou'd have to be like... I don't know... 4?Nov 28 02:43
schestowitzThey are not stupid, their brain is less developedNov 28 02:44
schestowitzIt's still better than many animals'Nov 28 02:44
schestowitzHmmmmmmm...... so chimps cry as youngsters and babies?Nov 28 02:45
schestowitzLet me check....Nov 28 02:45
cubezzzdogs whineNov 28 02:45
oiaohmWorst is finding a power supply with a hiss that turns out to have a bandy bandy snake inside.  Ok they have very little venom normally don't bite but after being beat up by PS fan are kinda pissed off and there venom is toxic.Nov 28 02:45
cubezzzor a brown recluse spider? :)Nov 28 02:46
schestowitzDo chimps cry?Nov 28 02:46
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OM7KybtEMYNov 28 02:46
oiaohmRedbacks are not uncommon in winter to find inside computers.Nov 28 02:46
oiaohmAt least hear.Nov 28 02:47
oiaohmhere.Nov 28 02:47
oiaohmThey like anywhere warm cubezzzNov 28 02:47
cubezzzschestowitz, I don't think so, not in the way humans doNov 28 02:47
schestowitzCheck this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBKsNfPZmK4&NR=1&feature=fvwpNov 28 02:47
schestowitzSo we evolved by being whiny and noisy?Nov 28 02:48
cubezzzsome people say that rats can laugh when they get tickled but at a high frequencyNov 28 02:48
schestowitzSounds like moving towards being reptilian again? Dinosaurs shriekNov 28 02:48
schestowitzBirds singNov 28 02:48
cubezzzBirds are pretty smart, bird-brain is a bit of a misnomerNov 28 02:49
oiaohmDepends on the bird cubezzzNov 28 02:50
cubezzzRaven or ParrotNov 28 02:51
oiaohmAlso depends if they are drunk or not.Nov 28 02:51
oiaohmWe have times that they have been into the locally fruits and are absolutely drunk to the point of falling out the tree and not being able to fly to avoid anything.Nov 28 02:52
cubezzzthere's a video on youtube of a chimp playing pacmanNov 28 02:53
cubezzzit understood enough to try to evade the ghostsNov 28 02:54
cubezzzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laughter_in_animalsNov 28 02:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Laughter in animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 26.62 KBNov 28 02:55
schestowitzcubezzz: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoQwOVAN2kkNov 28 02:56
cubezzz:)Nov 28 02:57
schestowitzBallmer uses Leopard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8RiM_iBliUNov 28 02:57
schestowitzhttp://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg-announce/2009-November/001201.htmlNov 28 03:00
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schestowitzhttp://www.lockergnome.com/linux/2009/11/25/ubuntu-a-victim-of-success/Nov 28 03:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle:    Ubuntu A Victim Of Success ~ Linux Fanatics .::. Size~: 42.92 KBNov 28 03:03
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wallc_help help :)Nov 28 03:25
wallc_I have the Vandana Shiva transcription almost finished, but there is one area that I can't figure out what she says...anyone else want to listen to it and see if they can figure it out?Nov 28 03:26
wallc_It's between 2:20  and 2:33 in the video...Nov 28 03:27
wallc_Here's what I have, but there are two missing pieces:Nov 28 03:27
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxpromagazine.com/Online/News/New-from-Qualcomm-ARM-Netbooks-Open-Source-Initiatives-and-New-Technology.Nov 28 03:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 28 03:28
schestowitzHey, wallc_Nov 28 03:28
schestowitzwallc_: let me try....Nov 28 03:28
wallc_the parts I can't make out are in the brackets: "Now, in [...] law, when I spread a pollution, I must pay.  It's called The pollution [...] pays.Nov 28 03:28
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/25/monsanto-video/Nov 28 03:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Explanation of What Bill Gates Patent Investments Do to Developing World | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.94 KBNov 28 03:29
schestowitzIn 'mamental' law [sic]?Nov 28 03:31
schestowitzMonumental?Nov 28 03:31
schestowitzNot quite.......Nov 28 03:31
wallc_Yes, it sounded similar to that to me, but I thought it sounded like "Marmental Law" , I Googled it to see if something similar came up, but, I couldn't figure it out.Nov 28 03:32
schestowitz"get pace?Nov 28 03:32
schestowitz"get pays"?Nov 28 03:32
wallc_I thought maybe "guilt pays" like she meant guilty, but mis spoke?Nov 28 03:33
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en-GB&q=pollutant+getpays&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8Nov 28 03:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: pollutant getpays - Google Search .::. Size~: 16.11 KBNov 28 03:33
schestowitzwallc_: did you see latest post?Nov 28 03:34
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/27/monsanto-programme/Nov 28 03:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Black Friday Film: What the Bill Gates-Backed Monsanto Does to Animals, Farmers, Food, and Patent Systems | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 112.36 KBNov 28 03:34
schestowitzI know some people who hate Monsanto and follow the site because of thatNov 28 03:35
wallc_yes, i read it.  Nov 28 03:35
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto "Employees 21,700 (2009)"Nov 28 03:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Monsanto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 189.91 KBNov 28 03:35
schestowitz"$11.365 billion USD (2008)"Nov 28 03:35
schestowitzMaybe they can find a way to tax oxygen tooNov 28 03:35
schestowitzI should start saving up oxygen in balloons... you know, save some for later just in case.Nov 28 03:36
wallc_I'll send the transcript to you by email in a minute.  Nov 28 03:36
wallc_Yes, balloon air is always good to keep around, just in case :)Nov 28 03:36
schestowitzhttp://www.cduniverse.com/lyrics.asp?id=11029550Nov 28 03:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Anti-Flag - W.T.O. Kills Farmers Lyrics at CD Universe .::. Size~: 28.15 KBNov 28 03:36
schestowitzwallc_: maybe not low-quality airNov 28 03:37
schestowitzThe Monsanto business model goes like this:Nov 28 03:37
schestowitzPollute airNov 28 03:37
schestowitzPollute water, sell some (Nestle)Nov 28 03:37
schestowitzThen sell premium on 'better' airNov 28 03:37
schestowitzAnd ensure you have patents in purifying it or somethingNov 28 03:37
wallc_I use canned air to kill ants (I know, non sequitor  :)Nov 28 03:41
schestowitzIt reminds me, I messed up todayNov 28 03:42
wallc_I'm checking spelling in the transcript now, will send shortly...Nov 28 03:42
schestowitzSome new frying panNov 28 03:42
schestowitzIt emitted gases when heatedNov 28 03:42
schestowitzLots of fumes here for an hourNov 28 03:42
wallc_oh no!  what was it made of?Nov 28 03:43
schestowitzMetal...Nov 28 03:43
schestowitzBut anyway, it must have been quite poisonousNov 28 03:43
wallc_teflon coated?Nov 28 03:43
schestowitzI can still smell some of that 3 hours laterNov 28 03:43
schestowitzwallc_: I think so, not sure thoughNov 28 03:43
wallc_that sounds aweful.Nov 28 03:44
schestowitzIt wasNov 28 03:44
schestowitzTook a while to ventilateNov 28 03:44
wallc_is there a brand name on it?Nov 28 03:45
schestowitzNope, not on this one, why?Nov 28 03:45
schestowitzI have some Tefal hereNov 28 03:45
schestowitzBut this one's different. Nov 28 03:45
wallc_I've never had new cookware do that, it doesn't sound right, I'd let the company know....which you can't do if there's no brand on it...Nov 28 03:46
schestowitzIt's not nwNov 28 03:49
schestowitzI just haven't used it in yearsNov 28 03:49
schestowitzI have many others though, it's not a problemNov 28 03:49
schestowitzOne got older and had rust issue, the others are fineNov 28 03:49
schestowitzIf the teflon wears out, then there's the potential issue of bare metal coming to contact with foodNov 28 03:50
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wallc_generally, when the teflon wears off there's aluminum exposed.  It's best to toss out any pans with the teflon worn off.  Nov 28 03:52
*schestowitz has kicked zahzam from #boycottnovell (User terminated!)Nov 28 03:52
schestowitzzahzam is the latest ban evasion from you-know-whoNov 28 03:53
wallc_I just sent you the transcript...it's a gedit file.Nov 28 03:53
schestowitzwallc_: yes, I just have other ones anywayNov 28 03:53
schestowitzwallc_: to post now or tomorrow? Your thoughts needed... cause I've just posted on the same subjectNov 28 03:54
wallc_I'd say wait.  That way maybe someone else can have a chance to listen and help us figure out the missing parts...Nov 28 03:55
wallc_I'm wondering, maybe she has email...do you suppose she'd mind if we asked her?  Nov 28 03:55
schestowitzLet's tryNov 28 03:57
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandana_ShivaNov 28 03:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Vandana Shiva - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 55.55 KBNov 28 03:57
wallc_I've been reading about her.  what an interesting person she is!Nov 28 03:59
schestowitzShe has a site... http://www.vandanashiva.org/Nov 28 03:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: NAVDANYA USA • VANDANA SHIVA .::. Size~: 16.56 KBNov 28 03:59
wallc_yes, I'm looking at it now...Nov 28 03:59
schestowitzInteresting to see many people turning from research to activism, RMS includedNov 28 03:59
schestowitzAnd MakoNov 28 03:59
wallc_some of the links on her website don't work...like the "contact us" link...(sigh).  will keep looking.Nov 28 04:03
schestowitzYesNov 28 04:03
schestowitzI was gonna say soNov 28 04:03
schestowitzI enabled JS, didn't helpNov 28 04:03
schestowitzMaybe some MSIE-only 'designed'Nov 28 04:03
wallc_eww, i hope not.  Nov 28 04:04
wallc_I have to go now, but I'll check in for a bit tomorrow.  Let me know if the transcript looks ok.  Nov 28 04:05
wallc_bye for now :)Nov 28 04:05
schestowitzThanks, it isNov 28 04:05
schestowitzAlmost doneNov 28 04:05
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schestowitzgnNov 28 04:18
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oiaohmI have been thinking.  What distributions need is a web/something portable based application that can download packages need on a machine that does not have linux but has the list of packages person has or particular version of distrobution.Nov 28 04:54
DaemonFCmy phone company is pimping Windows Mobile phonesNov 28 04:58
oiaohmOk what form.Nov 28 04:58
oiaohmNew stock/old stock DaemonFCNov 28 04:58
DaemonFCthey have 7Nov 28 04:59
DaemonFCI thinkNov 28 05:00
DaemonFCI'm not sureNov 28 05:00
DaemonFCthere's just a picture of them in the adsNov 28 05:00
DaemonFCphones look newNov 28 05:00
DaemonFCthey're giving out free Windows 7 notebooks with contracts tooNov 28 05:00
oiaohmMostly windows 7 starter combind with a trial kick back anti-virus combid eitha trial kick back office.Nov 28 05:02
oiaohmSo effective -15 + dollars to the priceNov 28 05:03
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DaemonFCI got my new 360 connectedNov 28 05:40
DaemonFCmaybe I can make it through Mass Effect without the system barbecuing itself\Nov 28 05:40
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Upgraded to Fedroa 12 using preupgrade-cli ,upgrade went smooth except few package cleanups :-)Nov 28 06:16
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] s/fedroa/fedoraNov 28 06:21
oiaohmhttp://dev.w3.org/2006/webapi/FileAPI/  Gap between web and native getting smallerNov 28 06:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: File API .::. Size~: 82.13 KBNov 28 06:47
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DaemonFCDemocrats sending me more emailsNov 28 07:14
DaemonFC"Come to a $500 a plate dinner to sit down and eat with 50% of the politicians that are fucking you in the ass without lube."Nov 28 07:14
DaemonFCif I had $500 to donate, it wouldn't be to an organization getting billions in bribe money from special interest groups and corporationsNov 28 07:15
cubezzzporting my own software to f11Nov 28 07:16
cubezzzfrom fc1Nov 28 07:16
cubezzzand writing notes...Nov 28 07:16
DaemonFCFunding the Republicans and Democrats would be like pulling $500 out and "donating" it to ComcastNov 28 07:16
DaemonFCor MicrosoftNov 28 07:16
oiaohmDaemonFC:  is 500 dollar entery to push you plans.Nov 28 07:16
oiaohmThey have to reduce the numbers somehow.Nov 28 07:16
DaemonFCno, $500 is to get there and listen to some of them speakNov 28 07:17
DaemonFCthe $5,000 tickets are for the people that get to go "talk" to the politicians ;)Nov 28 07:17
DaemonFCbehind closed doorsNov 28 07:17
cubezzzdonating money to Microsoft is sheer lunacyNov 28 07:18
DaemonFCthe $50,000 guys just go straight to their office and have a couple hours of 1 on 1 timeNov 28 07:18
DaemonFCskip the "dinner"Nov 28 07:18
cubezzzXSetFont  rk16, but where is rk16?Nov 28 07:18
DaemonFCfor free?Nov 28 07:19
DaemonFCFOR FREE????? You ask?Nov 28 07:19
DaemonFCFor free, you get to send them an email and have a generic auto-reply sent backNov 28 07:19
DaemonFCor call in and talk to an internNov 28 07:19
DaemonFCwho hangs up on you :)Nov 28 07:19
DaemonFCI've never made any political donationsNov 28 07:20
DaemonFCsome of those Right to Life ads make me want to donate to Planned Parenthood just out of spiteNov 28 07:20
oiaohmBoy the more I hear of the USA it suxs.Nov 28 07:21
cubezzzdonate to GNU :)Nov 28 07:21
oiaohmI have had a lot of one on one time with politicions here for free.Nov 28 07:21
DaemonFChere, you might get to catch them for a minute by some off chanceNov 28 07:21
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DaemonFClocal (county and city) politicians are the only ones that *might* really have to hear you outNov 28 07:22
DaemonFCdepends on their town charter regarding town meetingsNov 28 07:22
DaemonFCthe worst place to live is a small town in an extremely far left or far right state/districtNov 28 07:23
DaemonFCthen your votes don't even matterNov 28 07:23
DaemonFCaround here, anyone that says they're a Republican gets in and holds the office for lifeNov 28 07:24
DaemonFCno matter what they doNov 28 07:24
oiaohmDo you politions have to put on the public record all donations they get?  DaemonFCNov 28 07:24
DaemonFCno matter how they rip us offNov 28 07:24
DaemonFCoiaohm: Federal, yes. States, depends on state laws.Nov 28 07:24
cubezzzcan't remember where the heck rk16 came from...Nov 28 07:24
DaemonFCoiaohm: A lot of crooked donations aren't easy to spotNov 28 07:25
DaemonFClike they don't say "Bilderburg Group sends in $50,000"Nov 28 07:25
oiaohmDoes taking donations interested parts in votes force them to abstain from voting.Nov 28 07:25
DaemonFCits under their 10 employees or whateverNov 28 07:25
DaemonFCso they all donate $5,000 each personallyNov 28 07:25
DaemonFCoiaohm: NopeNov 28 07:25
cubezzzweavers, not programmers, but that's the way it is Nov 28 07:26
oiaohmTheirs you problem DaemonFCNov 28 07:26
DaemonFCthey can vote on issues that affect large donorsNov 28 07:26
DaemonFCthey can introduce legislation written by large donorsNov 28 07:26
DaemonFCMedicare Part D is the best example of that, everNov 28 07:26
oiaohmHere it works quite interestingly.Nov 28 07:27
oiaohmThey can vote against the intrest of the people who donated them money fine.Nov 28 07:27
DaemonFCoiaohm: Welfare laws get passed only when they found out how to sneak off a few trillion dollars to the richNov 28 07:27
oiaohmBut if they get caught vote for a someone who gave them a large dontation they are screwed.Nov 28 07:28
DaemonFCthis health reform will pass when they've given a large enough payoff to the richNov 28 07:28
oiaohmlegislation written by large donors can be introduced here.Nov 28 07:28
oiaohmAnd some of it is good.Nov 28 07:28
DaemonFCoiaohm:  Our system breaks down because only one age block votes in numbers that decide an electionNov 28 07:28
DaemonFCit's all old peopleNov 28 07:28
DaemonFC3/4ths the people that register or show up are over 50Nov 28 07:28
DaemonFCso you only have one group of people that get any representationNov 28 07:29
oiaohmThe system there is screwed at many levels DaemonFCNov 28 07:29
oiaohmThe donation one we don't have the problem.Nov 28 07:29
DaemonFCoiaohm: Why do you think Obama went to the AARP and said "What is thy bidding, my master?"?Nov 28 07:30
DaemonFC:)Nov 28 07:30
DaemonFCthe AARP uses its evil sith lobbying powers to get more tax money stolen from people my age and dumped on over-50sNov 28 07:30
oiaohmLets say you are trying to defeat a bill here.Nov 28 07:30
oiaohmYou will hunt through everyone on side who could be voiting for it and look for payments to exclude them voiting for.Nov 28 07:31
DaemonFCpeople my age get to work and slave for $7-$10 usually and they get about 25% or more seized and handed out to old peopleNov 28 07:31
DaemonFCby politicians buying votesNov 28 07:31
oiaohmLot of donations here are direct ellection advertisement assistance.Nov 28 07:32
DaemonFCevery time you get a paycheck, at least 25% of it is stolen to give as a handout/political favor to old peopleNov 28 07:32
DaemonFCyou work for $10 an hour, the govvernment might let you get away with $7.75 of that per hourNov 28 07:32
oiaohmThat is kinda true everywhere.Nov 28 07:32
oiaohmWorse here the old people don't get it.Nov 28 07:33
DaemonFCthen they start taxing you again with sales tax, property tax, tax on your license plates, tax on car registration renewals, tax on your drivers licensNov 28 07:33
DaemonFClots of tax on gasolineNov 28 07:33
DaemonFCyou make $10 an hour, and only about $6.50 is really yours after the government steals it all to give to old peopleNov 28 07:33
DaemonFCwhy work?Nov 28 07:33
DaemonFCwhy BOTHER to succeed?Nov 28 07:33
DaemonFCthe old people and the minorities just get all your damned money anywayNov 28 07:34
oiaohmNot how it works here.Nov 28 07:35
DaemonFCoiaohm: over $10 an hour and below about $13 you fall into a doughnut hole where you hit the next tax bracket and lose your raises anyway to taxNov 28 07:35
oiaohmNow since they cannot get bribes.Nov 28 07:36
DaemonFCincome tax is actually a very regressive tax, oiaohmNov 28 07:36
DaemonFCdiscriminates against young peopleNov 28 07:36
oiaohmthere politions wages are tax free basically and worse there wage system is filled with perks.Nov 28 07:36
DaemonFCoiaohm: You may as well not make more than $8 an hourNov 28 07:36
DaemonFCif you can stay under $8 an hour, you get all kinds of things like food stamps, energy assistance, etc. that are not taxedNov 28 07:37
oiaohmWe have unemploment benifits.Nov 28 07:37
DaemonFCif you go over $8 an hour, plan to make $14 an hour or moreNov 28 07:37
oiaohmIf you make under 10 dollars a hour you are going backwards lots of the time.Nov 28 07:37
DaemonFCcause between $8 and $14 you get the double whammy of losing your poverty benefits and getting into a higher tax bracketNov 28 07:38
oiaohm20 dollars a hour is the tax bracket change.Nov 28 07:38
oiaohmAnd its savage here.Nov 28 07:38
oiaohmBasically 20-30 not worth it.Nov 28 07:38
DaemonFCoiaohm: Rich people are mostly exempt from social security taxationNov 28 07:38
DaemonFCthe government stops taxing you past $102,500Nov 28 07:39
oiaohmNot exactly true here here.Nov 28 07:39
DaemonFCif I make a million dollars that year, I pay 12.5% of $102,500Nov 28 07:39
oiaohm102.500 is 45%Nov 28 07:39
DaemonFCif I make under that, I pay 12.5% on all my incomeNov 28 07:39
DaemonFCevery bit of itNov 28 07:39
oiaohmUnless you can work out how to donate or other wise reduce tax.Nov 28 07:39
DaemonFCso Bill Gates only gets taxed on the first $102,500 he makes in a yearNov 28 07:40
oiaohmNote over 1 million to your name here its tax effective to setup a company.Nov 28 07:40
DaemonFCso at 12:01 AM on January 1, Bill Gates has paid all his Social Security and FICA taxesNov 28 07:40
DaemonFCbut poor people have to pay them all yearNov 28 07:40
oiaohmIts cheaper than personal tax.Nov 28 07:40
DaemonFCis this fair?Nov 28 07:40
oiaohmWhat.Nov 28 07:41
oiaohmSo you mean as a USA cit if I have 1 million income for a year I will only get taxed on the 100,000Nov 28 07:41
DaemonFCBill Gates has made all of his taxable Social Security and FICA income withing a few minutes of a new yearNov 28 07:41
DaemonFCcause they stop taxing him at $102,500Nov 28 07:41
DaemonFCbut they tax people that make less than that on all their incomeNov 28 07:42
DaemonFC*withinNov 28 07:42
oiaohmMore I hear about the USA the more its set up to go splat.Nov 28 07:42
DaemonFCoiaohm: There's a few taxes you have to pay. Federal income tax has no cap on your income.Nov 28 07:42
DaemonFCSocial Security and FICA (Medicaid) are capped at the first $102,500 of your incomeNov 28 07:43
DaemonFCafter that you pay no FICA or SS, bu keep paying federal income taxNov 28 07:43
oiaohmOk that is wrong.Nov 28 07:43
DaemonFCoiaohm: They could make both programs solvent by removing that capNov 28 07:43
oiaohmOur medicare tax kicks in if you are over 100 000 and don't have private health insurance.Nov 28 07:43
DaemonFCthat's all they have to doNov 28 07:43
oiaohmOver 500 000 you get hit again.Nov 28 07:44
oiaohmBut this time no loop hole to get out.Nov 28 07:44
DaemonFCoiaohm: Medicaid is getting slashed. Almost nobody can manage to qualify for it anymoreNov 28 07:44
DaemonFCthey find *any* reason to deny youNov 28 07:44
DaemonFCeven if the state has to lie or falsify evidenceNov 28 07:44
oiaohmhere is fairly simple to qualify.Nov 28 07:45
DaemonFCIndiana has a program called Healthy Indiana Plan that's limited to low income people with no insurance, but it covers nothingNov 28 07:45
oiaohmLack of income and you get.Nov 28 07:45
DaemonFCand free clinics won't see you if you have thatNov 28 07:45
DaemonFCso don't even applyNov 28 07:45
Ender2070_DaemonFC - all that tax money goes towards paying the interest on the money the banks print for your governmentNov 28 07:45
DaemonFCoiaohm: Medicaid is jointly funded by the feds and the stateNov 28 07:46
oiaohmWe have have the health care card.Nov 28 07:46
DaemonFCin Indiana, the judge reviewing your appeal will fudge the Finding of FactNov 28 07:46
DaemonFCto create a legal basis to deny youNov 28 07:46
oiaohmThat gives you discounts on lots of medical. DaemonFCNov 28 07:46
oiaohmIt works like a kick back setup.Nov 28 07:46
DaemonFCwhich, distorting evidence is illegal for the judge to do, but they do things like selectively interpret things that are not totally 100% clear in favor of the stateNov 28 07:47
DaemonFCit's usually enough to tip the balance to the state's favorNov 28 07:47
oiaohmDocs support it they get cheaper access to public hospitals todo there non cheep stuff DaemonFCNov 28 07:47
DaemonFCoiaohm: Like if your doctor decides to be an ass and not fill out a questionnaire for the state, your case is overNov 28 07:48
DaemonFCthe state winsNov 28 07:48
DaemonFCyour case is just over, goneNov 28 07:48
DaemonFCthey love using that excuse, they ALWAYS send those to the docNov 28 07:48
DaemonFCthe doc is afraid he might get sued if he signs any kind of medical statement on youNov 28 07:49
DaemonFCso the state knows that 9 times out of 10 the doc won't fill it out and they can instantly rule against youNov 28 07:49
DaemonFC(what happened to me)Nov 28 07:49
oiaohmNot how it works here.Nov 28 07:50
DaemonFCthen using a battery of other distortions, legal tactics, etc. the state can deny probably another 8 out of 10 that are leftNov 28 07:50
DaemonFCthat's why there's only a 2% approval in Indiana for MedicaidNov 28 07:50
DaemonFCMedicaid is a sham Nov 28 07:51
oiaohmThey can demard third party inspection of your medical state that they have to pay for DaemonFCNov 28 07:51
DaemonFCnobody gets it unless their case is so overwhelmingly unwinnable for the state that the state gives upNov 28 07:51
oiaohmFailure to treat here is also an offence.Nov 28 07:51
DaemonFCthose are the people that get approved after appealing denials for the better part of a yearNov 28 07:51
oiaohmIe failure to treat public servents can find there head on chopping block.Nov 28 07:52
DaemonFCoiaohm: Social Security does send you to their doctor if yours won't cooperateNov 28 07:52
DaemonFCso they sent me to their doctor and I have Social Security now but no medical benefitsNov 28 07:52
oiaohmI guess you don't have failure to treat over there DaemonFCNov 28 07:52
DaemonFCoiaohm: Technically, it is an offense to refuse treatment.Nov 28 07:53
DaemonFCBut only in limited casesNov 28 07:53
oiaohmHere we can refuse treatment.Nov 28 07:53
oiaohmbut it must be offered.Nov 28 07:53
oiaohmNow waiting lists are the only loop hole.Nov 28 07:53
DaemonFCoiaohm: If I'm an ER doc and you get shot and come into the ER, the law says I have to pull the bullets out, stabilize you, sew up the woundsNov 28 07:53
DaemonFCjust get you to the point you won't dieNov 28 07:53
DaemonFCoiaohm: If you come in with advanced cancer or something, and I'm the doc, I don't have to do anything for youNov 28 07:54
DaemonFCyou die of "natural causes" laterNov 28 07:54
oiaohmcancer here you must be rated on how critical.Nov 28 07:54
oiaohmThe more critical the faster you must get in.Nov 28 07:54
oiaohmOk if you happend to die due to too many at the same level as you bad luck.Nov 28 07:55
DaemonFCoiaohm: There are some non-profit hospitals that treat people that can't payNov 28 07:55
DaemonFCmostly ran by churches to treat kidsNov 28 07:55
DaemonFCpeople ask me why I don't trust Jews or Muslims, how about that?Nov 28 07:56
DaemonFCwhen's the last time you saw a Muslim Childrens Hospital?Nov 28 07:56
DaemonFCthey don't do any kind of charityNov 28 07:56
oiaohmMost of our church run hospitals are expensive.Nov 28 07:56
DaemonFCeven the Masons have charity hospitals for kidsNov 28 07:56
oiaohmour public hospitals take up all the cheap space.Nov 28 07:56
oiaohmThen at times due to load our goverments buy usage from the privates DaemonFCNov 28 07:57
oiaohmHow is getting to a dentist over there.Nov 28 07:57
oiaohmThat is a big problem here if you have teeth problems and no private coverage.Nov 28 07:57
DaemonFCoiaohm: Mine is charging me $160 per cavity filledNov 28 07:58
oiaohmThe waiting list for dentist in public is 5 years.Nov 28 07:58
DaemonFCI need two filledNov 28 07:58
DaemonFCI made the appointment in December just in case I need a rideNov 28 07:58
oiaohmyes free but hell you don't want to have to wait 5 years for a filling.Nov 28 07:58
DaemonFCbut they offered me one the next dayNov 28 07:58
DaemonFCgetting in isn't a problemNov 28 07:59
oiaohmPay you can get in next day.Nov 28 07:59
DaemonFCpaying for it might beNov 28 07:59
oiaohmHere don't pay wait.Nov 28 07:59
DaemonFCwell, beats having your teeth rot and need extractions when they could have just fileld themNov 28 07:59
DaemonFC:)Nov 28 07:59
DaemonFC*filledNov 28 07:59
oiaohmMostly due to the fact dentist working in public are not allowed to too teech whiting and other profitable things.Nov 28 07:59
oiaohmIe highly profitable things.Nov 28 08:00
DaemonFCfor minor stuff like this they should let you just pay and go to a private dentist, oiaohmNov 28 08:00
oiaohmso go out into private.Nov 28 08:00
DaemonFCI would think so anywayNov 28 08:00
oiaohmIe when regested and a public denisted here you cannot work as a private on the side DaemonFCNov 28 08:00
DaemonFCso nobody wants to take your government funding cause then they can't make moneyNov 28 08:00
oiaohmYes ouch.Nov 28 08:00
DaemonFCso then the people get a shortage of dentists and have to wait 5 years while their cavity turns into a rotten tooth and needs pulledNov 28 08:01
oiaohmYep.Nov 28 08:01
oiaohmGovement does not pay too bad.  Nov 28 08:01
DaemonFCthat's pretty pervertedNov 28 08:01
oiaohmA few private now are donating 1 day every 3 months for free to catch the system up.Nov 28 08:01
DaemonFCoiaohm: Medicaid pay rates are so awful here that a dentist that takes it is something to avoidNov 28 08:02
DaemonFCthey'll probably fuck up your mouth trying to defraud medicaidNov 28 08:02
oiaohmPublic dentists get to travel australia for free DaemonFCNov 28 08:02
DaemonFClike drill and fill healthy teethNov 28 08:02
DaemonFCto charge the governmentNov 28 08:02
DaemonFCI've seen them do itNov 28 08:02
oiaohmYou agree free country wide travel is quite a good perk.Nov 28 08:03
DaemonFCoiaohm: My ex was on Medicaid cause he was under 19 and they approve more of themNov 28 08:03
DaemonFChad ONE cavityNov 28 08:03
DaemonFCthe dentist filled that and THREE healthy teethNov 28 08:03
DaemonFCto defraud the governmentNov 28 08:03
oiaohmIf that happens here the dentist loses his registration and no longer can prac.Nov 28 08:04
DaemonFCoiaohm: I don't think it's worth thatNov 28 08:04
oiaohmAnd public is fairly much flat rate if they do fillings or not.Nov 28 08:04
DaemonFCdentists here wouldn't accept reduct payments and a ban on all their priciest stuffNov 28 08:04
DaemonFCto get a few free plane ticketsNov 28 08:04
DaemonFC*reducedNov 28 08:04
oiaohmNote its more profitable for them todo preventation here.Nov 28 08:04
oiaohmand see many people without problems.Nov 28 08:04
oiaohmWhat is profit causes problems DaemonFCNov 28 08:05
oiaohmEven better for them the goverment lines up all school kids to have there teeth checked.Nov 28 08:05
DaemonFCoiaohm: Making dentists agree to work for half price to get in your program is why Medicaid is fuckedNov 28 08:05
DaemonFCbut they only have to work cheap on Medicaid patientsNov 28 08:06
oiaohmOurs is fucked because we don't allow them to work on side.Nov 28 08:06
DaemonFCand they can still do optional stuff, but Medicaid won't pay for whitenings and suchNov 28 08:06
oiaohmDoing the more profitable but not important lines.Nov 28 08:06
DaemonFCoiaohm: And Medicaid only pays for dangerous metal fillings which contain mercuryNov 28 08:07
oiaohmwhitings are quite profitable things.Nov 28 08:07
DaemonFCand to get those kind, the dentist has to drill more of your tooth outNov 28 08:07
oiaohmMetal fillings containing mercury are forbin.Nov 28 08:07
DaemonFCand then once it's in, your teeth are at risk of breaking laterNov 28 08:07
oiaohmwhy in hell is still used over there.Nov 28 08:07
DaemonFCoiaohm: I asked for prices on bothNov 28 08:07
DaemonFCmy dntist won't do themNov 28 08:07
DaemonFConly compositesNov 28 08:07
oiaohmWe get cermic like matterial.  Or you can pay a upgrade to gold.Nov 28 08:07
DaemonFCI asked one of the other dentists in town for prices on both, and he told me $110 for metal or $160 for compositesNov 28 08:08
DaemonFCI'm not gonna get cheap and have to go through all those problemsNov 28 08:08
oiaohmIn public you here you do have the option to pay the difference.Nov 28 08:08
DaemonFCI'm just getting compositesNov 28 08:08
oiaohmIts illegal to put mercry based in month here any more.Nov 28 08:09
DaemonFCoiaohm: It's legal here, but people don't want themNov 28 08:09
DaemonFCthe only people that get stuck with them are poor people on MedicaidNov 28 08:09
oiaohmMostly because the mercry also kills the densit and the person who gets it.Nov 28 08:09
oiaohmIe mercry vapor comes off when its put in.Nov 28 08:10
DaemonFCthe only dentists that still do them, do them because it's what Medicaid will pay forNov 28 08:10
oiaohmYou laws sux.Nov 28 08:10
DaemonFCso the dentists that do them probably take MedicaidNov 28 08:10
DaemonFCthat's your sign to run like hellNov 28 08:10
DaemonFCfind a dentist that doesn't take MedicaidNov 28 08:10
DaemonFCthe ones that take it are piss poor at what they doNov 28 08:11
DaemonFCand are willing to work cheap cause they're bad dentistsNov 28 08:11
DaemonFCI would try to avoid going to a Medicaid dentist even if I was on Medicaid and the fillings were free, oiaohmNov 28 08:11
DaemonFCthat's how little I think of themNov 28 08:11
DaemonFCI would rather pay $320 for these two fillings than getting them free from a Medicaid dentist, even if I was on itNov 28 08:12
oiaohmYou know that composites can be color matched to teeth.Nov 28 08:12
oiaohmYou know that you can make composite matterial lot cheeper if you go for a off while.Nov 28 08:13
DaemonFCgetting your whole mouth fucked up is not wort saving $160 a fillingNov 28 08:13
oiaohm160 for a good white compositeNov 28 08:13
oiaohmand about 90 for a yellowish one.Nov 28 08:13
DaemonFCoiaohm: He's giving me a no insurance discountNov 28 08:13
oiaohmYes eww guess what you get here.Nov 28 08:13
DaemonFCthe full price is $178 perNov 28 08:14
oiaohmif you are goverment.Nov 28 08:14
oiaohmSimple fact the metal ones are not the cheepest out there either.Nov 28 08:14
DaemonFCoiaohm: Most doctors charge a lot more if you have insuranceNov 28 08:14
DaemonFCthey know they can wring more money out of the insurance companyNov 28 08:14
oiaohmNote the off white are also stronger DaemonFCNov 28 08:14
DaemonFClike if I went to the doctor, it would cost $40Nov 28 08:15
oiaohmSo out last the cray mercry ones DaemonFCNov 28 08:15
DaemonFCbut if I went to the doctor and had insurance, they bill the insurance $78Nov 28 08:15
oiaohmyour system over there is ripping themselves of so bady.Nov 28 08:15
oiaohmNot only harming people need them redone more often.Nov 28 08:15
oiaohmAustralian medical is peny pinching bastards but you do get treated.Nov 28 08:16
DaemonFCoiaohm: That's what I was wonderingNov 28 08:16
DaemonFCare the dentists in Australia that opt to take the public funding incompetent?Nov 28 08:16
DaemonFCcause the ones here that take Medicaid areNov 28 08:16
oiaohmThe private ones are more likely to be incompetent here.Nov 28 08:17
DaemonFCoh?Nov 28 08:17
DaemonFChmmNov 28 08:17
oiaohmReason the public ones have random inspections of work.Nov 28 08:17
DaemonFCohNov 28 08:17
oiaohmAnd if there work is not up to grade they will be in trouble.Nov 28 08:17
DaemonFCand they get booted out of they do shoddy workNov 28 08:17
DaemonFCright?Nov 28 08:17
oiaohmDepends on what is the cause of the shoddy work.Nov 28 08:18
oiaohmSometimes is retraining at goverments expense.Nov 28 08:18
DaemonFCI mean like routinely doing bad workNov 28 08:18
DaemonFCcause the dentists that take Medicaid  are always sloppy or fucking upNov 28 08:18
oiaohmIf they routinely do bad work they end up not being a dentist at all.Nov 28 08:18
DaemonFCand the government never audits themNov 28 08:18
oiaohmYes they loss the right to trade.Nov 28 08:19
oiaohmas a deniest and normally end up making false teeth.Nov 28 08:19
oiaohmNow if a private gets enough bad reports they will be inspected as well.Nov 28 08:20
oiaohmPublics just get inspected once a year no matter what.Nov 28 08:20
DaemonFCI really like this TV, oiaohmNov 28 08:22
oiaohmDoes help that if a goverment offical has a opps at work and harms a tooth they have go to a public dendist to have it inspected.Nov 28 08:22
DaemonFCI need to rent some DVDs, have a movie nightNov 28 08:22
oiaohmAnd fixed DaemonFCNov 28 08:22
oiaohmNote they get to jump que.Nov 28 08:22
DaemonFCnaturallyNov 28 08:22
DaemonFCthey're better than youNov 28 08:22
DaemonFC;)Nov 28 08:23
oiaohmBasically if your goverment officals had to use your crap system it would not stay crap long.Nov 28 08:23
DaemonFCoiaohm: They don't give a shitNov 28 08:23
DaemonFCit's what they condemn poor people toNov 28 08:23
DaemonFCthey vote themselves dental plans that pay for the dentists of the starsNov 28 08:23
DaemonFC:)Nov 28 08:23
oiaohmThey only give a shit here because there month/arm/what ever is on the line.Nov 28 08:23
oiaohmThere is no dental plans for public officals.Nov 28 08:24
oiaohmOther than public system bipass.Nov 28 08:24
oiaohmIe que jumping.Nov 28 08:24
oiaohmIt was decide it would be that way  a long time ago DaemonFCNov 28 08:24
DaemonFCI'm going to need an HDMI cable when I get that HD cable boxNov 28 08:25
DaemonFCI guess I could save a few bucks and use component cablesNov 28 08:26
oiaohmSimple problem here goverment is not allow to pay private companies for insurance on there workers here DaemonFCNov 28 08:26
oiaohmAnd they are not allowed a in house system either.Nov 28 08:26
oiaohmSo the public system has to work.Nov 28 08:26
DaemonFChmmm, looks like they run the same priceNov 28 08:26
DaemonFCmight as well get the HDMI cablesNov 28 08:26
DaemonFCthe XBOX 360 came with a good solid pair of shielded component cablesNov 28 08:27
oiaohmBe ware of tv and HD cable boxs fighting at times DaemonFCNov 28 08:27
DaemonFCit puts out good picture qualityNov 28 08:27
oiaohmOn HDMI.Nov 28 08:27
DaemonFCoiaohm: For the same price, I want HDMINov 28 08:27
DaemonFCcause Components are compatible with HDCPNov 28 08:28
oiaohmI made my last set of compentent cablesNov 28 08:28
DaemonFCso if I get a Blu Ray player and use Component, it'll downscale everything to 576p instead of 1080pNov 28 08:28
DaemonFCthat's my understanding anywayNov 28 08:28
oiaohmIt was cheep to by a 15 meter airal cable and end it DaemonFCNov 28 08:28
oiaohmArial cable works great with audioNov 28 08:28
DaemonFCstill better than a DVD, but 480p to 576p wouldn't justify the price of a Blu Ray player if your TV can't do the HDCPNov 28 08:29
DaemonFCyou could get better than DVD rips though from Blu Ray I guess, even if you have to use component cables to rip the movieNov 28 08:30
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DaemonFChttp://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=11987734Nov 28 08:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Walmart.com: Emerson 32" Class LCD HDTV, LC320EMXF: TVs .::. Size~: 153.34 KBNov 28 08:38
DaemonFCThe same TV I bought yesterday morning is now $318Nov 28 08:38
DaemonFCI got it for $248 B-)Nov 28 08:38
DaemonFC$70 for standing in line for an hour is fair I guessNov 28 08:39
DaemonFCsomething tells me this was one of those loss leaders on that saleNov 28 08:39
DaemonFCprobably figured that if they lost $40-50 per TV, but sold an HDMI cable, a Blu Ray player, a game console, games, movies, etc....Nov 28 08:41
DaemonFCThe TV is like a gateway drugNov 28 08:41
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tessierhttp://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1942834,00.htmlNov 28 09:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The 00's: A Decade from Hell - TIME .::. Size~: 55.13 KBNov 28 09:42
tessierGood article.Nov 28 09:42
tessierI didn't realize how much we have really been through.Nov 28 09:42
tessierAlso good to put things in perspective though. I am still glad I was in the US during this decade than an average person in China or Brazil.Nov 28 09:43
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Saw an old Mac Keynote from 2000. Jobs said Apple had ~25M users. Makes Ubuntu estimated ~13M now (~10 years on) seem pretty good to me.Nov 28 10:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] [1;3A[1;3B[6;3~[5;3~MfNov 28 10:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] if I just sent some gibberish in a dent, I appologise, Fich appeared to freezeNov 28 10:14
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ender2070listen to thisNov 28 10:33
ender2070"Free software wounded it in the early 1990s. The Internet stabbed it again. But it was open source, in this decade, that struck the fatal blow. "Nov 28 10:33
ender2070why mention free software and open source seperately? oh yeah its zdnetNov 28 10:34
ender2070http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5350Nov 28 10:34
ender2070attributing the decline of the EULA to open source, not free softwareNov 28 10:38
ender2070its very clever use of subliminalsNov 28 10:38
schestowitzZDNet has no Free software blogNov 28 10:56
schestowitzThey domesticate StallmanNov 28 10:56
schestowitz"she actually believes free software exists for corporations to "consume" for profit... how does such a person wind up as executive director of the gnome foundation in the first place?" --sourceNov 28 10:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] I love how some functions start as third party addons or plugins, only to gradually evolve into the main project if a lot of peeps use themNov 28 10:57
schestowitz"Free Software continues to push into mainstream deployments, which is progress, and yet dangerous compromises are made along the way.  The presence of Mono and the absence of the GIMP are two examples.  A locked down cloud and the absence of GPL3 in the Linux kernel are more examples."Nov 28 10:58
schestowitz"And yet, at the same time, we are succeeding in bleeding the Borg of revenue.  Microsoft continues to lose market share in important areas such as netbooks and smartphones, slack that is taken up by the Linux kernel or even GNU/Linux."Nov 28 10:58
schestowitz"The world is a confusing place.  Novell continues to contribute drivers to GNU/Linux, while assisting Microsoft in extending questionable code into FOSS projects.  Google makes contributions to the Linux kernel while locking down the cloud.  Canonical increases its presence and influence in the installed base, while making mistakes like Mono and the GIMP."Nov 28 10:58
schestowitz"And yet we disagree often, even amongst ourselves, and the disagreement is often bitter, and perhaps even divisive.  There is no doubt in my mind that Miguel de Icaza believes that Free Software is going to make Microsoft a shadow of its current monolithic size, nor is there any doubt in my mind that Miguel does not have the best interests of Microsoft at heart."Nov 28 10:59
schestowitz"And yet he is taking such a circuitous route toward undermining them, it appears to most people that he is supporting them with initiatives such as Mono and Moonlight."Nov 28 10:59
schestowitz"So the question that I continue to ask myself is how we, the larger FOSS community, can continue to go forward with some measure of unity despite our deep disagreements with each other.  I don't like Mono or Moonlight, but I am not sure how to work for progress without entering into conflict with important members of our community."Nov 28 10:59
schestowitz"I firmly believe that Microsoft tries to defeat the advance of FOSS by accentuating the disagreements in our community.  It is pretty difficult to tell Linus Torvalds that he is holding the movement back by not moving to GPL3, and yet it's difficult to see how Richard Stallman is wrong about GPL3 or a locked down cloud or Mono or Moonlight."Nov 28 10:59
schestowitz"So eventually, we will win, but it is going to be a long and painful process.  Sometimes, it keeps me awake at night, the thought of the deep divisions in our community. [...]"Nov 28 11:00
schestowitz"It seems as if there will always be a core group of people like us who want to insist on Free Software, and we will always have to deal with people like Linus and Miguel who are willing to take a more middle ground approach.  This thought is frustrating to me."Nov 28 11:00
schestowitzAnd yet we're stuck with people who try to coerce RMSNov 28 11:00
schestowitzThey smear himNov 28 11:00
schestowitzAs if to say, it's time to get outNov 28 11:01
schestowitz"Move over Stallman, we'll take it from here with our DRM and shareholders"Nov 28 11:01
schestowitzBe careful of the smears and defensive of the FSFNov 28 11:01
schestowitzThe digital equiv. of neocons is looking to cancel the social movement of Free software and redefine it allNov 28 11:02
schestowitzTo make just another APple-like cult with "open ssssssssssource."Nov 28 11:02
ender2070yeahNov 28 11:13
ender2070actually my study of subliminal messages ended up leaking into these issues because i noticed the same thingsNov 28 11:13
ender2070you'll notice, FSF wasn't outright attacked but they were both brought up as seperate entities and one was glorified and praisedNov 28 11:14
ender2070I find it quite hard and effort-full to ignore Lins*x website Nov 28 11:16
ender2070im glad new users can't post on their forumsNov 28 11:16
ender2070it makes it easier not to say anything thereNov 28 11:17
schestowitz>> theirNov 28 11:20
schestowitzYou mean, "his"?Nov 28 11:20
*schestowitz has kicked zahzam from #boycottnovell (User terminated!)Nov 28 11:20
schestowitzmutex hereNov 28 11:20
schestowitzLet the bugger go back to Lins**Nov 28 11:21
ender2070I didn't see him thereNov 28 11:21
ender2070unless under another aliasNov 28 11:21
ender2070they had a whopping 5 users onNov 28 11:22
ender2070including meNov 28 11:23
schestowitzHere's the thingNov 28 11:24
schestowitzOff the top of my headNov 28 11:24
schestowitzMedia chooses what is important and what is notNov 28 11:24
schestowitzIts financial power comes not just from direct advertisingNov 28 11:24
schestowitzBut from choosing to tell people what's importantNov 28 11:25
schestowitzSo, regarding FSF:Nov 28 11:25
schestowitzBasically, they can ignore everything GNUNov 28 11:25
schestowitzThis gives people the impression that Free software is irreleventNov 28 11:25
schestowitzGNU is disliked by businessNov 28 11:25
schestowitzAnd thus business pressNov 28 11:25
schestowitzZDNet would rather hire Windows hacks like Blankenhorn, then label it "open source"Nov 28 11:25
schestowitzThen they are guaranteed little repsect for RMSNov 28 11:25
schestowitzSame in CNETNov 28 11:25
schestowitzShankland, Asay.....Nov 28 11:26
schestowitzHad it been an FSF guy (unique thinker) he would not be selected to be thereNov 28 11:26
schestowitzSo anyway...Nov 28 11:26
schestowitzThat's just something worth saying. That's why people need to rely a little less on what big businesses tell them is important, namely what's profitableNov 28 11:27
ender2070thats exactly my pointNov 28 11:28
ender2070they emphasis was placed on open sourceNov 28 11:28
ender2070not free softwareNov 28 11:28
ender2070they were both included in the article, simply so you can be shown and told which one is better between the linesNov 28 11:28
ender2070its the same as bundling a bunch of free software related terms, and proprietary technologyNov 28 11:29
oiaohmschestowitz: Richard Stallman  and Linus disagree on how the DRM issue will be sorted out.Nov 28 11:31
oiaohmThere always has to be disagreements in the open source world other wise its not freedom.Nov 28 11:32
oiaohmIts when the open source world has too much peace we have problems.  Remember war is some of a humans best times for invention.Nov 28 11:34
schestowitzArguments are not warsNov 28 11:51
schestowitzProprietary folks have more realistic wars...Nov 28 11:51
schestowitzPoaching of staff, attacking by proxy (litigation), etc.Nov 28 11:51
schestowitzThe problem is that a lot of the proprietary world is not edging into Free softwareNov 28 11:51
schestowitzAnd trying to 'reform' itNov 28 11:51
schestowitzEven NokiaNov 28 11:51
oiaohmMS push the myth that you could not make profit with open source.Nov 28 12:11
oiaohmpushed.Nov 28 12:11
oiaohmFor companies like Nokia there really was not that much advantage to closed source.Nov 28 12:11
ender2070i can't trust closed source at allNov 28 12:12
ender2070i dont think I ever willNov 28 12:12
ender2070you will NEVER know 100% what your computer is doing, otherwiseNov 28 12:13
oiaohmclosed source is deeper than you think ender2070.  intel chips contain a microcode to convert from x86 to the chips native internal code.Nov 28 12:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Lots to do today. I might start doing some of it one day soon.Nov 28 12:31
schestowitzNov 28 12:31
schestowitz[12:11] <oiaohm> MS push the myth that you could not make profit with open source.Nov 28 12:31
schestowitzGo speak to non-Free software companiesNov 28 12:32
schestowitzThose that sell for $50 a pieceNov 28 12:32
schestowitz*apieceNov 28 12:32
schestowitzAsk them how many copies they soldNov 28 12:32
schestowitzAverage companiesNov 28 12:32
schestowitzThose that _survive_ (very few)Nov 28 12:32
schestowitzThen you'd realise that it's a mythNov 28 12:32
schestowitzIf you charge, people may not comeNov 28 12:32
schestowitzThe same illusion is created around the Web...Nov 28 12:32
schestowitz...that if you make some decent site, then Silicon Valley will come knocking and you'll be a MySpace-like sensationNov 28 12:33
ender2070oiaohm - actually its code that translates x86 into riscNov 28 12:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Ubuntu is so easy to install, even a 5 year old can do it. http://bit.ly/8M1UtR #fbNov 28 12:35
ender2070it would also be quite hard to introduce surveillance in such an obvious to detect mechanism Nov 28 12:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The GNOME Journal: The Un-Scary Screwdriver .::. Size~: 11.78 KBNov 28 12:35
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RD: @g33f: Profanity is the one language all programmers know best." (via @sup3rkiddo's IM status)Nov 28 12:36
ender2070steganography can be quite scary too, most think of it as defense against tyrannical governmentsNov 28 12:38
ender2070however, you could use it to hide surveillance data in random "bug crash" transmissionsNov 28 12:38
ender2070binaries without source could also have trojans, which are more realisticNov 28 12:39
oiaohmFirst worm virus was open source ender2070Nov 28 12:39
ender2070trojans you might never detect because they arent in the wildNov 28 12:39
ender2070came out of MITNov 28 12:39
oiaohmOpen source makes it harder to hind thing but not impossiable.Nov 28 12:39
ender2070and it wasnt a trojanNov 28 12:39
oiaohmmallissa worm ender2070Nov 28 12:40
ender2070it exploited systems to gain accessNov 28 12:40
ender2070melissa did the same, and melissa was closed sourceNov 28 12:40
oiaohmmallissa worm was a trojan.Nov 28 12:40
oiaohmNo it was not.Nov 28 12:40
oiaohmIt was a vba macro in a doc file perfectly readable no encryption nothing.Nov 28 12:41
ender2070melissa was binary only, did not come with source and spread via tricking outlook usersNov 28 12:41
oiaohmJust a auto run scriptNov 28 12:41
oiaohmAnything with auto run scripts might be dangourous.Nov 28 12:41
ender2070oh for sureNov 28 12:41
oiaohmmalissa worm was a typo.Nov 28 12:41
ender2070it exploited the os to gain accessNov 28 12:42
oiaohmHe made a mass mailing script then sent it attached to the document he was sending.Nov 28 12:42
oiaohmNo it was exploiting word ender2070Nov 28 12:42
oiaohmIts one of the few that works under wine by the way.Nov 28 12:42
ender2070same shitNov 28 12:42
ender2070word was integratedNov 28 12:42
oiaohmThere have been earlier forms for scripts doing the same thing.Nov 28 12:43
ender2070yes but they are quite obviousNov 28 12:43
oiaohmLinux is partly at risk at moment due to the handling of .desktop files.Nov 28 12:43
ender2070its not like downloading a game and not knowing its watching everything you doNov 28 12:43
ender2070dont make your home directories have +x flags anywhereNov 28 12:44
oiaohmLot of Linux root kits are open source as well.Nov 28 12:44
ender2070errr, make sure your*Nov 28 12:44
ender2070dont have +xNov 28 12:44
oiaohm.desktop files run without +x flagsNov 28 12:44
oiaohmYes a OppsNov 28 12:44
ender2070they execute?Nov 28 12:45
ender2070that is quite badNov 28 12:45
oiaohmthey can execute a single line of code.Nov 28 12:45
oiaohmInto bashNov 28 12:45
ender2070but your derailing my original statementNov 28 12:45
oiaohmNot really.  closed source just makes it harder.Nov 28 12:45
oiaohmpps easier.Nov 28 12:45
ender2070closed source makes it easier to hide thingsNov 28 12:46
oiaohmOk depends on the way you are looking at .  Closed source makers it harder to attackNov 28 12:46
oiaohmdetectNov 28 12:46
ender2070i could give you a windows binary right now that your av will never find anything wrong withNov 28 12:46
oiaohmBut defects is the reason the attack is possiable in the first place.Nov 28 12:46
ender2070you can bind a trojan to any exe, and if you make your own trojan its undetectableNov 28 12:47
ender2070since windows usually uses closed source software, its not as noticableNov 28 12:47
oiaohmYet filtered execution the trojan would be ineffective.Nov 28 12:47
ender2070if you stick with open source, you dont run into the trojan issue. but worms and viruses can still do damage if you arent vigilant.Nov 28 12:48
oiaohmYou still can run into trojans in open source.Nov 28 12:48
ender2070how soNov 28 12:48
oiaohmJust they are rarer..Nov 28 12:48
ender2070you got the codeNov 28 12:48
oiaohmAlso requires you to be stupid.Nov 28 12:48
ender2070you can compile the program yourself if you dont trust the binaryNov 28 12:48
oiaohmHow many people can read code ender2070Nov 28 12:49
ender2070a lot of people can read codeNov 28 12:49
oiaohmto the level to detect a set of coding errors turning a program from harmless to harmful.Nov 28 12:49
ender2070enough that even noobies can get proper adviceNov 28 12:49
ender2070a trojan put there on purpose will be detectedNov 28 12:50
ender2070and the project may never get trusted againNov 28 12:50
ender2070it would be shamedNov 28 12:50
oiaohmthere have been classics.  Like the BSD PAM system having a password bypass for over 10 years not detectedNov 28 12:51
oiaohmIt was put in by the auther for debuging reasons.Nov 28 12:51
ender2070BSD isn't a good exampleNov 28 12:51
ender2070nobody uses it, thats whyNov 28 12:51
ender2070not enough eyesNov 28 12:51
oiaohmThe same PAM code was picked up by Linux and most Unixs.Nov 28 12:51
oiaohmAt the time.Nov 28 12:51
ender2070who fixed it :)Nov 28 12:51
ender2070not BSDNov 28 12:51
oiaohmThe auther who put it in.Nov 28 12:52
oiaohmHe relooked at his code one day and when opps that should not have been released.Nov 28 12:52
ender2070thats entirely possibleNov 28 12:52
ender2070quite unlikely and rare tho as you sayNov 28 12:52
oiaohmPresuming open source does not have trojans is foolish.Nov 28 12:53
oiaohmOk presume that they will be rare is kinda backable by history.Nov 28 12:53
ender2070ill give you incompetenceNov 28 12:54
ender2070thats always an issueNov 28 12:54
oiaohmMost common forms of open source trojans are caused by debuging code left in.Nov 28 12:54
ender2070that just goes with incompetenceNov 28 12:54
oiaohmAnd the cause it gets left in tracks to not have testcases to detect if debuging code is in or not.Nov 28 12:55
ender2070any sufficiently paranoid person will be inspecting code that runs on his pc, thats my pointNov 28 12:55
ender2070not everyone can, but not everyone is worried eitherNov 28 12:55
oiaohmThe PAM one was extreamlly suttelNov 28 12:55
ender2070your point is valid except, with closed source you have no way of even detecting any of thatNov 28 12:56
oiaohmYou do.Nov 28 12:57
ender2070you dont at allNov 28 12:57
oiaohmfuzz testing.Nov 28 12:57
ender2070you cant even see the codeNov 28 12:57
oiaohmThrough random data at it and see if a flaw triggers.Nov 28 12:57
oiaohmdisasmemblely another option ender2070Nov 28 12:57
ender2070and that prevents them from deliberately spying on you?Nov 28 12:57
oiaohmClosed source is not a magical 100 percent invis stunt.Nov 28 12:58
ender2070not 100% but good enoughNov 28 12:58
oiaohmAll it does is make the process of searching for bugs a little harder ender2070Nov 28 12:58
oiaohmNote the word a little harder.Nov 28 12:59
oiaohmSome reverse compliers today take asm and covert it back into CNov 28 12:59
ender2070and if they take steps to prevent that?Nov 28 12:59
oiaohmEvery step to prevent that there is a counter measure.Nov 28 12:59
oiaohmWith best setup you can only expect to slow attacker down from being at a form of source by 48 hours.Nov 28 13:00
ender2070you can prevent your source from being read, if you triedNov 28 13:00
oiaohmUnless of course the complete code is embed in a processor chip not accessable.Nov 28 13:01
oiaohmender2070: the cpu always has to be able to read it.Nov 28 13:01
oiaohmThat is what brings the house down.Nov 28 13:01
oiaohmclosed source is a house of cards.Nov 28 13:01
ender2070a portion of code can be secure and unlocked using a signed key from the internet, all in ram without touching your diskNov 28 13:02
oiaohmNo problem ender2070Nov 28 13:02
ender2070think, blue rayNov 28 13:02
oiaohmblueray is cracked.Nov 28 13:02
ender2070blueray's keys were on the disksNov 28 13:02
ender2070not on the internetNov 28 13:02
oiaohmRam can be cooled and removed and data extracted.Nov 28 13:03
ender2070not 100%Nov 28 13:03
ender2070it often failsNov 28 13:03
oiaohmSupprisingally not that much.Nov 28 13:03
ender2070its a lot harder than inspecting codeNov 28 13:03
oiaohmSelect ram sticks you have upto 40 mins to access.Nov 28 13:03
ender2070i would like to see the average person cool their ram and remove it and extract the dataNov 28 13:04
oiaohmI said attacker.Nov 28 13:04
oiaohmNot adverage person.Nov 28 13:04
ender2070my issue: untrusted binaries with homebrew trojansNov 28 13:05
ender2070you have no idea what you're getting into with closed sourceNov 28 13:05
oiaohmSelected motherboards can be bussed into to access live ram.Nov 28 13:05
ender2070every program is suspectNov 28 13:05
oiaohmAttackers have money and resources.Nov 28 13:05
oiaohmGeneral home users don't.Nov 28 13:05
oiaohmClosed source really does not keep anyone safe.Nov 28 13:06
ender2070thats what im trying to sayNov 28 13:06
oiaohmClosed source is normally sold with the supid idea that is somehow better secuirty.Nov 28 13:06
ender2070closed source isnt safeNov 28 13:06
oiaohmBut the point I am making with the right tech no matter what protection closed source uses you can audit it unless its embed inside a chip where you cannot get at it.Nov 28 13:07
oiaohmMost users don't have the means to read code either ender2070Nov 28 13:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: Diamonds are a girl's best friend. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/22082.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/535899.htmlNov 28 13:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: reddragdiva | Diamonds are a girl's best friend. .::. Size~: 30.5 KBNov 28 13:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: reddragdiva: Diamonds are a girl's best friend. .::. Size~: 20.9 KBNov 28 13:14
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schestowitzHey, wallc_Nov 28 13:19
wallc_good morning (yawn)  :)Nov 28 13:19
wallc_still waking up here.Nov 28 13:19
schestowitzI know the feeling... been catching up with Novell/SUSE stuff... tiredNov 28 13:20
*DaemonFC (i=none@c-69-245-242-208.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellNov 28 13:23
wallc_i'm deciding whether to work today or not (leaning towards the "or not" side)Nov 28 13:23
wallc_Daemon!  How's things in Indiana?Nov 28 13:24
DaemonFChttp://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/Dell-Customizes-Chrome-OS-For-The-Dell-Mini-10v-510639/Nov 28 13:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Dell Customizes Chrome OS For The Dell Mini 10v .::. Size~: 118.19 KBNov 28 13:32
DaemonFCwallc_: As Indiana-ish as everNov 28 13:32
DaemonFCit's cold, depressing, and full of meth labs and domestic disputesNov 28 13:32
DaemonFCthe cold part changes back after roughly 5-6 months thoughNov 28 13:33
DaemonFC:)Nov 28 13:33
schestowitzDaemonFC: at least Dell customer will just switch the thing on and be stuck in a browser, so no questions like, "where is the blue E?"Nov 28 13:35
MinceRthere will be instead questions like "why did the case break in normal use?" and "why did the keyboard fall apart from normal use and why isn't it under warranty?" and "why did the GPU melt itself?"Nov 28 13:36
ender2070lolNov 28 13:40
MinceRi wonder if they claim that minis are RoadReady(tm) tooNov 28 13:41
MinceRapparently notNov 28 13:43
MinceRso if you look at it too hard, it breaksNov 28 13:43
DaemonFCMinceR: Most laptops are not well constructedNov 28 13:44
MinceRbut probably not as badly as dellNov 28 13:45
MinceRsNov 28 13:45
DaemonFC"Why did the battery explode?"Nov 28 13:46
DaemonFC"Why doesn't the FTC look into this?"Nov 28 13:47
schestowitzGerman minister quits in row over Nato air strike that killed civilians http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/27/franz-josef-jung-nato-afghanistanNov 28 13:47
schestowitzDaemonFC: thoughts?Nov 28 13:47
schestowitzYou seem to have been OK with death of innocent, IIRCNov 28 13:47
MinceRbattery explosions are more of a crApple thingNov 28 13:48
schestowitzOr SonyNov 28 13:48
schestowitzWho makes batteries for Apple?Nov 28 13:48
schestowitzAs we all know, Apple doesn't make computersNov 28 13:48
schestowitzIt just wage slavery in AsiaNov 28 13:48
schestowitzOutsourcingNov 28 13:48
DaemonFCChinese slavesNov 28 13:48
wallc_I have an old Compaq Armada laptop that was given to me about 7 or 8 years ago.  It still works, though a couple of the keys have fallen off.  I've tried installing various Linux distros on it over the years, but none worked well...Nov 28 13:48
schestowitzWho makes Apple's batteries?Nov 28 13:48
schestowitzwallc_: I bought a Presario 10 years agoNov 28 13:49
schestowitz1246 IIRCNov 28 13:49
wallc_I've been wondering if some of the new netbook-type software might work on that old Armada...Nov 28 13:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Another interesting replacement for F-Spot http://photobatch.stani.be/Nov 28 13:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Phatch - Photo Batch Processor .::. Size~: 3.4 KBNov 28 13:51
tessierUgh. I had wanted to be asleep hours ago. Machines always seem to pick unfortunate times to have issues.Nov 28 13:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Or simply support and help (testing) Kubuntu Lucid Lynx instead of Ubuntu ;-) http://www.kubuntu.orgNov 28 13:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Kubuntu | linux for human beings | Kubuntu .::. Size~: 15.07 KBNov 28 13:55
schestowitzwallc_: I'm doing your post now... the transcriptNov 28 14:02
wallc_You don't think there are too many "holes" in it where I couldn't figure out the words she said?Nov 28 14:03
schestowitzwallc_: you're not supposed to use this ArmadaNov 28 14:03
wallc_lol...it's not like the Spanish Armada...no canons or anything...Nov 28 14:04
schestowitzYou should be a good consumer, ship this over for burial with the toxins somewhere in the Black Continent and then go buy some new one, assembled in China by kids Nov 28 14:04
schestowitzYes, Armada was always a funny nameNov 28 14:04
schestowitzI actually used to correlate it with the band at the timeNov 28 14:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Who Invented Foxes is scary. http://www.whoinventedfoxes.com/submission/566/Nov 28 14:05
schestowitzUse a Vandana lapotpNov 28 14:06
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wallc_Are you still using Kubuntu?Nov 28 14:06
*MinceR isNov 28 14:09
MinceRvandana?Nov 28 14:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Video Transcript of #VandanaShiva on Insane #Patents http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/28/video-transcript-vandana-shiva/Nov 28 14:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Video Transcript of Vandana Shiva on Insane Patents | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 117.05 KBNov 28 14:12
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zer0c00lgood that you have made the transcript :)Nov 28 14:13
schestowitz"Iran faced a display of rare international unity today when the UN's nuclear watchdog demanded it halt work on a secret uranium enrichment plant whose exposure highlighted concerns that the country is seeking nuclear weapons." http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/27/iran-iaea-vote-nuclear-plantNov 28 14:14
schestowitzzer0c00l: I didn'tNov 28 14:14
schestowitzwallc_ didNov 28 14:14
schestowitzWho really paid for your Christmas - http://www.stallman.org/archives/2009-sep-dec.html#28%20November%202009%20%28Who%20really%20paid%20for%20your%20Christmas%29Nov 28 14:15
zer0c00lwallc_: :-), you saved my time :DNov 28 14:15
schestowitzExternalities.Nov 28 14:15
schestowitzBill Gates is a very nice man. He's pushing Monsanto into India whether the people want it or not. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/10/19/gmo-patent-investments/Nov 28 14:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bill Gates Takes His GMO Patent Investments/Experiments to India | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 116.83 KBNov 28 14:17
wallc_zer0c00l, I'm happy to have helped.  :)Nov 28 14:17
zer0c00lschestowitz: http://lists.fosscom.in/pipermail/network-fosscom.in/2009-November/001922.htmlNov 28 14:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] NASA Satellites Detect Unexpected Ice Loss in East Antarctica http://ur1.ca/gor8 A/Cs won't solve itNov 28 14:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Video Transcript of Vandana Shiva on Insane Patents | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 117.05 KBNov 28 14:20
schestowitzOops. Wrong link...Nov 28 14:24
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/26/chilcot-inquiry-iraq-blair-goldsmithNov 28 14:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] If only this text were not too long to beat anti-vaccination arseholes to death with. http://is.gd/55I0dNov 28 14:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] NASA Satellites Detect Unexpected Ice Loss in East Antarctica http://ur1.ca/gorf A/Cs won't solve itNov 28 14:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Making Light: Why We Immunize .::. Size~: 847.94 KBNov 28 14:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: NASA satellites detect unexpected ice loss in East Antarctica .::. Size~: 48.88 KBNov 28 14:25
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "US discussed Iraq regime change a month after Bush took office, senior British officials say" http://ur1.ca/gorjNov 28 14:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: US discussed Iraq regime change a month after Bush took office, senior British officials say |  Raw Story .::. Size~: 48.21 KBNov 28 14:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - Perspective In Fiction | The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/yg2buyvNov 28 14:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Perspective In Fiction | The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 14.12 KBNov 28 14:30
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schestowitzhttp://www.topix.net/science/computer-science/2009/11/targeting-mobile-internet-market-lenovo-to-acquire-mobile-handset-businessNov 28 14:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Targeting Mobile Internet Market Lenovo to Acquire Mobile Handset Business - Topix .::. Size~: 43.97 KBNov 28 14:37
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schestowitzhttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/28/world/main5810174.shtmlNov 28 14:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 3 U.S. Dead in China Cargo Plane Crash - CBS News .::. Size~: 52.86 KBNov 28 14:37
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-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RD: @glynmoody: Chat with the 17 year old hacker who hacked my blog - http://bit.ly/707RNI if authentic, provides useful insights #crackingNov 28 14:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle:   Chat with the 17 year old hacker who hacked my blog .::. Size~: 48.7 KBNov 28 14:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @glynmoody: Chat with the 17 year old hacker who hacked my blog - http://bit.ly/707RNI if authentic, provides useful insights #crackingNov 28 15:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle:   Chat with the 17 year old hacker who hacked my blog .::. Size~: 48.7 KBNov 28 15:01
zer0c00lhehehe lot of tweetsNov 28 15:02
zer0c00lamusing story to read ;-)Nov 28 15:07
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_goblinhi allNov 28 15:17
schestowitzEleanor Roosevelt once said "no one can make you feel inferior without your consent."Nov 28 15:22
schestowitzCheck out http://www.rdpnda.com/Nov 28 15:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: A completely different way to access  your News - RED PANDA         rdpnda.com .::. Size~: 9.88 KBNov 28 15:22
schestowitzIt has just been released by someone I knowNov 28 15:22
schestowitzI'm running it in Firefox right now, it seems pretty usefulNov 28 15:23
schestowitzWe're here: http://webwereld.nl/nieuws/64413/omstreden-trusted-computing-nu-op-linux.htmlNov 28 15:24
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Omstreden Trusted Computing nu op Linux | Webwereld .::. Size~: 53.33 KBNov 28 15:24
schestowitz"Roy Schestowitz of the Boycott Novell blog called TPM support in openSUSE also a Anti feature."Nov 28 15:24
_goblinwho said that?Nov 28 15:26
schestowitzhttp://www.zdnet.co.uk/talkback/0,1000001161,39887560-21000001c-20105602o,00.htmNov 28 15:26
schestowitz"Its a bit weird to see Stalman in there. Why are you being so brutal to him? I hardly think Stallman is a disaster. He wrote the GNU stack, regardless of his late politics he is THE man. And that will be famous historical fact for a long time."Nov 28 15:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Jack Wallen? - Ten failures that went down in IT history - Talkback at ZDNet UK .::. Size~: 91.25 KBNov 28 15:26
_goblin"Vista is rubbish, but I don't think it will be mentioned in CS classes for years to come. " - a bit like ME? lol...Vista imo will be seen as the turning point release where MS finally saw the beginnings of noticable migration away from its platform.Nov 28 15:28
_goblinVista would have probably been forgotten if MS had held their hands up at the time....Nov 28 15:29
schestowitzThere were issues prior to itNov 28 15:33
schestowitzLike SaaSNov 28 15:33
schestowitzAnd Microsoft demise in other areasNov 28 15:34
schestowitz"Well the initial impression is how much it [Windows 7] looks like Vista. Which I think is…uh…the thing I’m not supposed to say. " --Microsoft Jack SchofieldNov 28 15:36
schestowitzeWEEK claims 4% market share for GNU/Linux in its Web site. http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/comment/web-apps-and--windows-as-a-runtime--open-new-os-doors-2596Nov 28 15:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Web Apps And 'Windows As A Runtime' Open New OS Doors - News - eWeekEurope.co.uk .::. Size~: 24.39 KBNov 28 15:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Considering making some kind of home made barbeque sauce for chicken.. and maybe some potatoes. hmmm.. inspiration requiredNov 28 16:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post - A Collection Of Random Errata | The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/yftxwpmNov 28 16:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: A Collection Of Random Errata | The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 12.73 KBNov 28 16:26
schestowitzbblNov 28 16:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] I subscribed to nufaisi8477's channel on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/user/nufaisi8477?feature=autoshare_twitterNov 28 16:27
*Balrog (n=Balrog@pool-173-59-71-55.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovellNov 28 17:42
cubezzzwindows sucks, peroidNov 28 17:54
cubezzzperiodNov 28 17:54
cubezzzlots of better operating systems out thereNov 28 17:54
cubezzzI can go months without touching a windows boxNov 28 17:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] I found FireStatus was a more convienient Identi.ca paster while using FirefoxNov 28 18:03
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] How to block webpages and domain using the hosts file - A handy adblocking solution http://tinyurl.com/y8axxavNov 28 18:08
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Howto block webpages and domain using the hosts file - Wikihowto: a howto site anyone can edit .::. Size~: 39.82 KBNov 28 18:08
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sebsebsebhiNov 28 18:28
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Omar87Hi all.Nov 28 18:42
Omar87schestowitz: So, is it true that Ubuntu One is based on Mono?Nov 28 18:43
Omar87schestowitz: Really?Nov 28 18:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Wife out. Sam sleeping. Sophie colouring. I'm making hot chocolate for Sophie before we sit down to watch some dancing on the telly :) #fbNov 28 19:02
schestowitzOmar87: no, it's notNov 28 19:12
schestowitzhttp://olyblog.net/vandana-shiva-visit-olympiaNov 28 19:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Vandana Shiva Visit to Olympia | OlyBlog .::. Size~: 32.22 KBNov 28 19:14
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cubezzzwhat was the gtk thing like xvidcap?Nov 28 19:27
cubezzzrecordmydesktopNov 28 19:28
cubezzzwell, ported my old programs over anywayNov 28 19:29
*ThistleWeb has quit ("Lost terminal")Nov 28 19:33
cubezzzlooks a bit like the First Federation Ship :)Nov 28 19:34
schestowitzYes, that's the one I useNov 28 19:35
cubezzzactually this vid I just made isn't too badNov 28 19:35
cubezzzif I change the font size people will be able to see the bash stuff Nov 28 19:37
cubezzzthen I'll need a microphone so I can blah blah blah about FOSSNov 28 19:38
cubezzzok :)Nov 28 19:41
schestowitzWill you upload it?Nov 28 19:50
cubezzzyeah eventuallyNov 28 19:50
cubezzzit's rather voluminous at the momentNov 28 19:50
schestowitzIf you produce something, then I can embed it to show GNU/Linux offNov 28 19:57
schestowitzI've been sharing funky videos recently to show people how advanced the platform isNov 28 19:58
schestowitzNot some CLI windows or BrownbuntuNov 28 19:58
cubezzzembed it on boycottnovell you mean?Nov 28 19:58
schestowitzYes, as oggNov 28 19:58
schestowitzThis way it gets over a thousand views within a day or twoiNov 28 19:58
schestowitzEmbedded ogg is interesting... it fetched a packet for start of file for playbackNov 28 19:59
schestowitzIf triggered, then it starts streaming (in Firefox that is)Nov 28 19:59
cubezzzit might not work in windowsNov 28 20:00
cubezzzthen the dozers can't see how great Linux is :)Nov 28 20:01
*ender2070 has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 28 20:03
cubezzzok, got to get mplayer and mencoder on the new Fedora firstNov 28 20:03
schestowitzMany "dozers" don't know what Linux *is*Nov 28 20:06
schestowitzThey don't know they are "dozers" eitherNov 28 20:06
schestowitzThey believe "computers" just comes with that "blue E" and all embedded to themNov 28 20:06
cubezzzdozer is an old term :)Nov 28 20:08
cubezzzpredating windows, but I've updated it's meaning for the modern eraNov 28 20:09
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto Wikipedia should go harder on themNov 28 20:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Monsanto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 190.69 KBNov 28 20:11
schestowitzThey must be hiring PR Turfers to warp WikipediaNov 28 20:11
schestowitzcubezzz: an apt term.... they are asleep, not seeing optionsNov 28 20:12
schestowitzAnother one I came across was "Windows LUSers"Nov 28 20:12
cubezzzold dozer is someone who didn't pay any attention in class :)Nov 28 20:13
*Ender2070 (n=Ender207@bas3-toronto63-1096719419.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovellNov 28 20:16
cubezzzok, first attempt....Nov 28 20:17
cubezzzhttp://maxhost.org/other/foss-video-1.ogv Nov 28 20:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting text/plain type .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 28 20:17
cubezzzI'll make a better video laterNov 28 20:17
cubezzzaside from the recordmydesktop I did all the programmingNov 28 20:17
schestowitzOmar87:  your friend's coming to Jordan. http://www.albawaba.com/en/countries/Jordan/257671Nov 28 20:18
phIRCe-BNcTitle: albawaba.com  middle east news information::Nuqul Group Hosts Microsoft Chief Operating Officer .::. Size~: 51.15 KBNov 28 20:18
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Ender2070I tried recordmydesktop on my laptop, brutalNov 28 20:19
Ender2070lolNov 28 20:19
Omar87schestowitz: My friend?Nov 28 20:19
schestowitzcubezzz: no sound?Nov 28 20:20
schestowitzOmar87: joke :-pNov 28 20:20
cubezzzno microphone :)Nov 28 20:20
schestowitzI just stumbled upon itNov 28 20:20
schestowitzcubezzz: ah, OKNov 28 20:20
Omar87schestowitz: See??Nov 28 20:21
Omar87schestowitz: That's EXACTLY what I keep telling people..Nov 28 20:21
schestowitzEnder2070: yes, it works wellNov 28 20:21
cubezzzlsNov 28 20:21
cubezzzoopsNov 28 20:21
schestowitzcubezzz: we need something that's a showcast of graphicsNov 28 20:21
Ender2070not on my notebookNov 28 20:21
Omar87schestowitz: It's ALL about marketing [mass-hypnosis] to MicroSloth.Nov 28 20:22
Ender2070encoding made it get very hotNov 28 20:22
schestowitzOmar87: he's doing his arse-wiping visitNov 28 20:22
cubezzzyou don't like my sphere?Nov 28 20:22
Omar87schestowitz: yeah!Nov 28 20:22
schestowitz"Big Rich Uncle from U.S.A. is coming to our country. We should all be THANKFUL! :-) "Nov 28 20:22
Omar87schestowitz: and it's really disgusting. ><Nov 28 20:22
schestowitzNot for the hypnotisedNov 28 20:23
schestowitzPeople love leadershipNov 28 20:23
schestowitzSomething about maternityNov 28 20:23
Omar87schestowitz: I'm starting to call it: "Techon-intellectual imperialism".Nov 28 20:23
schestowitzOffsprings trusting patents to survive... not running off a cliffNov 28 20:23
Omar87Techno-intellectual*Nov 28 20:23
schestowitzSo they obey people who are iconifiedNov 28 20:23
schestowitzThe PR industry knows thisNov 28 20:23
schestowitzThey exploit how the human mind worksNov 28 20:24
schestowitzSo they show people images and let there be sounds they have people tied to all sorts of presidents and rich people who employ PRNov 28 20:24
schestowitzThe Nazis too learned this from US PR when it was invented Nov 28 20:24
schestowitzBut they used it for evil purposesNov 28 20:24
schestowitzThey can also use it in reverseNov 28 20:24
schestowitzLike in the 80s film, 1984Nov 28 20:25
schestowitzBush: "Either you're with us, or you are with the terrorists"Nov 28 20:25
schestowitzAnyway...Nov 28 20:25
schestowitzPeople think of facesNov 28 20:25
schestowitzPRNov 28 20:25
schestowitzNot of actionsNov 28 20:25
schestowitzAnd when people leave their mind in a jar, then it's troub;eNov 28 20:25
schestowitzCause they think about people, not events, ideas, and ethicsNov 28 20:26
cubezzzok, who is using safari? :)Nov 28 20:26
schestowitzOmar87: and it's more like pseudo-intellectual tooNov 28 20:26
MinceRcrApple cultists areNov 28 20:26
schestowitzPseudo-techno-'intellectual' colonialismNov 28 20:26
Omar87schestowitz: true.Nov 28 20:26
schestowitzWe should love it /sarcasmNov 28 20:27
schestowitzIt's good for everyoneNov 28 20:27
schestowitzNeo-feudalsmNov 28 20:27
cubezzzIdeas are the most important, but people are important too :)Nov 28 20:27
schestowitzOne billiob Chinese to work 80 hours a weekNov 28 20:27
schestowitzFor pittanceNov 28 20:27
schestowitz95% of the rest being poor and increasingly worse offNov 28 20:27
schestowitzBut hey! It's a great systeNov 28 20:27
Ender2070didnt I mention that monsanto was patenting all the original seeds?Nov 28 20:27
Omar87Or even implerialism (By war [patents] or consensus [mass-hypnosis])Nov 28 20:27
schestowitzCause it's great for the "important" people we see on the TVNov 28 20:27
schestowitzAll 0.01% of themNov 28 20:28
Ender2070I heard it on conspiracy-like radio years agoNov 28 20:28
schestowitzAnd they are given even more over timeNov 28 20:28
cubezzzthat's changingNov 28 20:28
cubezzzwith my awesome foss videos :)Nov 28 20:28
schestowitzEnder2070: sort ofNov 28 20:28
schestowitzThey make false allegationsNov 28 20:28
cubezzzanyway I don't want to be on TVNov 28 20:28
schestowitzAnd farmers cannot hire lawyersNov 28 20:28
schestowitzSo they come to your fields secretlyNov 28 20:28
schestowitzThen say you 'stole' their IPNov 28 20:29
schestowitzWhich basiclaly just passes as heredityNov 28 20:29
schestowitzAnd then sue youNov 28 20:29
schestowitzThey sued thousandsNov 28 20:29
schestowitzThe press did not report this properlyNov 28 20:29
cubezzzthat's messed upNov 28 20:29
Omar87schestowitz: Pseodo-Techno-Intellectual implerialism (By war [patents] or consensus [mass-hypnosis])Nov 28 20:29
schestowitzSometimes they make millions this wayNov 28 20:29
schestowitzAnd they also patent existing stuffNov 28 20:29
schestowitzBut the idea is to saturate their DNA thorough cyclesNov 28 20:29
schestowitz*throughNov 28 20:30
schestowitzI.e. make everything out there 'theirs'Nov 28 20:30
schestowitzAnd they can have a global monopoly on all food this wayNov 28 20:30
schestowitzFood Inc.Nov 28 20:30
schestowitzMission AccomploishedNov 28 20:30
schestowitzWhat bothers me is that they use criminal/celebs like Gates to market this by forceNov 28 20:30
schestowitzGates is not cursing GMO critics and pushing for Monsanto in Africa and IndiaNov 28 20:31
schestowitzOmar87: find out if your country too got poisoned by Monsanto POISON DNA *and* poison 'IP'Nov 28 20:31
schestowitzThe issue here is dual:Nov 28 20:31
schestowitz1) the seeds are dangerous. We may not understand impact yet, but there is non natural selection as regulatory thingNov 28 20:32
schestowitz2) monopoly. Why make breeding a monopoly that passes through generations?Nov 28 20:32
schestowitzMonsanto is /seeding/ Africa with 'private' seeds, using Rockefeller and Gates, under Euphemisms like "Green revolution" and chairytNov 28 20:33
schestowitzThey impose the same issues as debt for strangulation essentiallyNov 28 20:33
schestowitzIn Cuba or actually..... in many poor South American nations, you can give them debt they don't need and then push them around telling them what to do cause they owe you moneyNov 28 20:33
schestowitzFew nations were not stupid enough to fall for itNov 28 20:34
schestowitzDebt through world banks is similar to debt through imperialists like MonsantoNov 28 20:34
schestowitzSeeds (IP) = debtNov 28 20:34
schestowitzCrops become foreign property for generations to comeNov 28 20:34
schestowitzNo way to get rid of it cause the genes spread themselvesNov 28 20:34
schestowitzPerfect SCAM.Nov 28 20:34
schestowitzBTW,  The US still wants to invade Venezuela and steal their oil tooNov 28 20:35
schestowitzRockefeller said this to a journo back in the days when he lines out a plan for Afghanistan (channel for oil), Iraq (2nd largest oil source), and huge oil producer in South America, currently owned by ChavezNov 28 20:36
schestowitzBiden already daemonises ChavezNov 28 20:36
*Mike (i=5acce5b2@gateway/web/freenode/x-vozavdehtgqzmwlk) has joined #boycottnovellNov 28 20:36
schestowitzObama and those whom he serves (they funded him... billiobs) will sooner or later go for itNov 28 20:36
MikeyeahNov 28 20:36
cubezzz"ore than 4,500 farmers have committed suicide due largely to mounting debt caused by the poor yields,"Nov 28 20:36
cubezzzMoreNov 28 20:36
*Mike is now known as Guest67680Nov 28 20:36
schestowitzMike: VenezuelaNov 28 20:36
Guest67680Hi Roy, whats upNov 28 20:37
schestowitzcubezzz: yes, in IndiaNov 28 20:37
Guest67680drinking acidNov 28 20:37
schestowitzMonsanto=murder by suicide/debtNov 28 20:37
schestowitzYou can find reports about this in YouTube, official ones tooNov 28 20:37
cubezzzMonsanto sounds more evil than GatesNov 28 20:37
Guest67680Monsanto, don't they hold a lot of seed patents?Nov 28 20:37
schestowitzGuest67680: yes, they drink poisonNov 28 20:37
Guest67680GM seeds?Nov 28 20:37
schestowitzcubezzz: it isNov 28 20:37
schestowitzBut he backs themNov 28 20:37
Guest67680they alwaysw doNov 28 20:38
cubezzzpwdNov 28 20:38
cubezzzdohNov 28 20:38
schestowitzcubezzz: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/10/monsanto-making-microsoft-look-good.htmlNov 28 20:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: open...: Monsanto: Making Microsoft Look Good .::. Size~: 124.12 KBNov 28 20:38
schestowitzThat's recent, from Glyn MoodyNov 28 20:38
Guest67680this is mike royNov 28 20:38
schestowitzGuest67680: yeah, I figured...Nov 28 20:38
schestowitzI actually used the spa and all todayNov 28 20:38
Guest67680aspartame tooNov 28 20:38
Guest67680stear well clear of itNov 28 20:39
Guest67680and the flu vaccineNov 28 20:39
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Uhh! the new #Creed album is an epic failure!! It's a real musical catastrophe!!Nov 28 20:39
Ender2070Canada already uses GMO foods, its scaryNov 28 20:39
Guest67680how else will they get rid of the baby boomers?Nov 28 20:39
Ender2070they didnt even bother telling us till it was going to happen to UKNov 28 20:39
Ender2070you'll notice the royal family gets to keep their farms and their organics while everyone else gets nutrient-stripped gmo'sNov 28 20:40
Guest67680trueNov 28 20:40
cubezzzhow to tell what is GMO food?Nov 28 20:40
Ender2070cubezzz - anything not labeled "organic" in canadaNov 28 20:41
schestowitzNew: http://www.ratio-magazine.com/200911261425/Kenya/Kenya-Gates-Foundation-and-Monsanto-to-Develop-Genetically-Modified-Seeds-for-Small-Farmers.htmlNov 28 20:41
Ender2070some of the stuff labeled can still be gmo tooNov 28 20:41
Ender2070its hard to really knowNov 28 20:41
MinceRthat's a stupid labelNov 28 20:41
MinceRalmost all our food is organicNov 28 20:41
Ender2070yeah it just means it was grown without pesticideNov 28 20:41
MinceRthe only exceptions i can think of are water and saltNov 28 20:41
Guest67680and tunaNov 28 20:41
Guest67680roy:)Nov 28 20:42
MinceRtuna is organicNov 28 20:42
Ender2070the gmo foods even "look" better, cause they are designed that wayNov 28 20:42
schestowitzPreservatives are the issueNov 28 20:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] When third world countries rise up against techno-intellectual imperialism.. http://bit.ly/5cgy73Nov 28 20:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Nicaragua is Moving to GNU/Linux for Independence | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 113.51 KBNov 28 20:43
Ender2070lolNov 28 20:43
schestowitzMaybe tuna that's bred in land lakes is a mutant, who know?Nov 28 20:43
Guest67680one think i never eat is microwable ready meals.Nov 28 20:43
schestowitz*knowsNov 28 20:43
Ender2070organic is a funny label, so many people use it redundantlyNov 28 20:43
Ender2070and why cant you genetically engineer a fish?Nov 28 20:43
cubezzzall food is organic thoughNov 28 20:43
schestowitzGuest67680: same hereNov 28 20:44
cubezzzeven Doritos :)Nov 28 20:44
schestowitzEnder2070: it should be reversedNov 28 20:44
schestowitzGMO food should all be labeledNov 28 20:44
schestowitzThe rest should notNov 28 20:44
Ender2070it would be easier to label those that arentNov 28 20:44
Ender2070cause most areNov 28 20:44
Guest67680Male infertility caused by leaching of phalates from plastic encased food, or even worse food cooked in plastic (ughh) in a microwave is a real problemNov 28 20:44
Ender2070at least in canadaNov 28 20:44
schestowitzThere's the "dolphin-safe" thing too... also ridiculed and abusedNov 28 20:44
schestowitzGuest67680: they fake studies on itNov 28 20:45
Ender2070Guest67680 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_ANov 28 20:45
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bisphenol A - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 308.94 KBNov 28 20:45
Guest67680microwaves were banned in Russia, and a few scandinavian countriesNov 28 20:45
schestowitzLike using pregnant cows and saturating experiments with them to show high fertilityNov 28 20:45
schestowitzNot double-blinded, one major hoaxNov 28 20:45
schestowitzGuest67680: not just Sweden?Nov 28 20:45
Guest67680the ban was lifted in the early ninetiesNov 28 20:46
Ender2070Guest67680 - and you're refering to XenoestrogenNov 28 20:46
schestowitzPlasma TVs are off the menu in the EU soonNov 28 20:46
Guest67680i dont use a microwave or cook food in plasticNov 28 20:46
Ender2070Xenoestrogen is what makes males efeminateNov 28 20:46
Guest67680and the x factor:)Nov 28 20:46
Guest67680or listening to take that:)Nov 28 20:47
Guest67680there does seem to be a merging of the gendersNov 28 20:47
Ender2070http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/securit/packag-emball/bpa/bpa_survey-enquete-can-eng.phpNov 28 20:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Welcome to the Health Canada Web site  | Bienvenue au site Web de Santé Canada .::. Size~: 4.57 KBNov 28 20:47
Guest67680to me at least, women seem to be becoming more masculine and vice versaNov 28 20:48
Ender2070I think they might be attempting to make everyone gay for population controlNov 28 20:48
Ender2070chemicallyNov 28 20:48
Guest67680i wonder if it is the dietNov 28 20:48
Guest67680or am i imagining it?Nov 28 20:48
Guest67680most of the saturday night uk tv viewing is feminised nowNov 28 20:48
Guest67680strictly come dancing, and singing/dancing competitionsNov 28 20:49
Ender2070they make men look like total retards/dumbasses on tvNov 28 20:49
Guest67680men don't seem to grumble enoughNov 28 20:49
Guest67680there would have been a riot in the masculine forties:)Nov 28 20:49
Ender2070its all the flourideNov 28 20:49
Ender2070got it in the water in canadaNov 28 20:50
Guest67680yes men seem to be portrayed as imbeciles on tv most of the time. it is all wrongNov 28 20:50
Guest67680girl power is basically sexism.Nov 28 20:50
Ender2070feminism is sexistNov 28 20:51
Ender2070?Nov 28 20:51
Guest67680too trueNov 28 20:51
schestowitzGuest67680: that's true in the SimpsonsNov 28 20:51
Ender2070some feminists can be sexistNov 28 20:51
Guest67680male bashingNov 28 20:51
Ender2070yeahNov 28 20:51
Guest67680why do they get to retire at 60 anyway, and we have to work till were 65?Nov 28 20:51
schestowitzGuest67680: to be fair, there's woman bashing tooNov 28 20:52
schestowitzIOW, a similar claim can be made about men if you think about itNov 28 20:52
Guest67680i don't know Nov 28 20:52
schestowitzGuest67680: cause they live longer..... oh, wait.Nov 28 20:52
Guest67680lolNov 28 20:52
schestowitzOverall, they may work as much cause there are more men than womenNov 28 20:53
Guest67680Where i live a live a lot of the young girls are bright orange, with bleach blonde hair, and all they want is your house:)Nov 28 20:53
schestowitzMaybe not in China, but here anywayNov 28 20:53
schestowitzLongevity and warsNov 28 20:53
schestowitzGuest67680: wait... I got a video fot you.Nov 28 20:54
schestowitz*forNov 28 20:54
schestowitzx-factor cultNov 28 20:54
Ender2070yeah there is a lot of woman bashingNov 28 20:54
Ender2070theres bashing on both sidesNov 28 20:54
Guest67680yesNov 28 20:55
Guest67680but i am sick of dancing and singing programmesNov 28 20:55
Ender2070lolNov 28 20:55
Guest67680they are for small girlsNov 28 20:55
Ender2070i couldnt stand watching disney moviesNov 28 20:55
cubezzzDrOz, DrPhil :)Nov 28 20:55
Guest67680it says a lot that there is a demand for these programmesNov 28 20:56
Guest67680Are we becoming consumerised half wits?Nov 28 20:57
Ender2070becoming?Nov 28 20:58
cubezzzno Nov 28 20:58
Ender2070LOLNov 28 20:58
Ender2070most people areNov 28 20:58
Guest67680yes i nknow it happened a long time agoNov 28 20:58
Guest67680i blame the egoNov 28 20:59
Ender2070half wit might be too generousNov 28 20:59
Guest67680mankind is going through a mass psychosis.Nov 28 20:59
Ender2070the world is psychopathicNov 28 21:00
Guest67680This is the century of the self as Freud said.Nov 28 21:00
Ender2070+1Nov 28 21:00
schestowitzGuest67680: http://crazationsok.blogspot.com/2009/11/new-world-order-fan-club.htmlNov 28 21:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Everything is OK: New World Order Fan Club .::. Size~: 114.13 KBNov 28 21:00
schestowitzFunny one.Nov 28 21:00
Ender2070You listen to Michael Tsarion?Nov 28 21:00
schestowitzX-Factor cultists questionedNov 28 21:00
schestowitzGuest67680: broadcasting versus peerNov 28 21:01
schestowitzMeaning that people know the "guy on telly" better than the next-door neighbourNov 28 21:02
schestowitzIt takes two sociable beings to communicate as friendsNov 28 21:02
schestowitzBut people are too busy accumulating belongings :-)Nov 28 21:02
Guest67680Facebook seems to be a vehicle for vain self publication, superficial friendships and social engineering for the acceptance of losing your privacy.Nov 28 21:03
Ender2070Facebook is trouble in canada for its lack of privacy protectionNov 28 21:04
Ender2070the federal government is going after itNov 28 21:04
Guest67680I know a guy who sits near me he has over 400 friends on facebook, but he is dull as dishwater.Nov 28 21:04
Guest67680Its like a popularity contestNov 28 21:04
Ender2070http://www.bloggernews.net/117202Nov 28 21:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  » Debate on FoxLesbian Mom Demands Child Support from Sperm Donor Dad - Blogger News Network .::. Size~: 40.34 KBNov 28 21:04
Ender2070http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_to_address_privacy_concerns_in_canada.phpNov 28 21:05
cubezzzyeah facebook isn't very goodNov 28 21:05
Ender2070wrong link aboveNov 28 21:05
Ender2070" The complaint raised concerns about "default privacy settings, collection and use of users' personal information for advertising purposes, disclosure of users' personal information to third-party application developers, and collection and use of non-users' personal information." The company was given 30 days to comply with recommendations and if Stoddard is not satisfied with Facebook's response she can go to the Nov 28 21:06
Ender2070Federal Courts for enforcement. Today is Facebook's deadline."Nov 28 21:06
Guest67680I hope they shut it down, then people will have to parade around like peacocks somewhere else.Nov 28 21:06
Ender2070lolNov 28 21:07
Guest67680Saying that the internet is probably the best place for itNov 28 21:07
Ender2070I tell people that likely every application they installed on facebook is spying on them , nobody caresNov 28 21:07
Ender2070a lot of spyware wrapped in surveys and quizzesNov 28 21:08
*ThistleWeb has quit ("Lost terminal")Nov 28 21:08
Guest67680Oh look look everybody! here's a photo of me taking my sock off!Nov 28 21:08
Guest67680and eating cheese!Nov 28 21:09
Guest67680Aren't i great!Nov 28 21:09
Ender2070Oh look look everybody! here's 200 photos of me in the same pose with slightly different facial expressions!Nov 28 21:09
schestowitz[21:03] <Guest67680> Facebook seems to be a vehicle for vain self publication, superficial friendships and social engineering for the acceptance of losing your privacy.Nov 28 21:09
schestowitzYesNov 28 21:09
schestowitzExactlyNov 28 21:09
schestowitzI spoke about this with my mom for like an hourNov 28 21:09
schestowitzThey have a DBNov 28 21:09
schestowitzLike thousands of sites like themNov 28 21:09
Ender2070if you unregister from facebook, they still have your infoNov 28 21:10
Guest67680Oh and did i tell you by the way, here is a photo of my cousin, he is a lawyer, lives in london, and he can swim like a fish!Nov 28 21:10
schestowitzWHat people do to 'make friends' is change some binary flag (not really) in some DB someone else ownsNov 28 21:10
Ender2070What kind of pirate are you? Take this test and find out!Nov 28 21:10
schestowitzIt makes degrees of connectivity easierNov 28 21:10
Ender2070Spam your friends and get more $$$ in our game!Nov 28 21:10
schestowitzFor invetigatorsNov 28 21:10
schestowitzMI5 can have fun with tools like this http://news.muckety.com/ but for real peopleNov 28 21:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Muckety.com - Exploring the paths of power and influence .::. Size~: 37.23 KBNov 28 21:11
schestowitz[21:04] <Guest67680> I know a guy who sits near me he has over 400 friends on facebook, but he is dull as dishwater.Nov 28 21:11
Ender2070zomgNov 28 21:11
Ender2070thats a wicked toolNov 28 21:12
schestowitzThere are criminal-esque agencies selling 'friends' or equiv.Nov 28 21:12
schestowitzThey are friend-harvestingNov 28 21:12
schestowitzBasically making money from messing about wirh DBsNov 28 21:12
schestowitzANd people's idea of perceived value in those arbitrary DBs that lose interest after a while drives them to paying, like they go to a hookerNov 28 21:12
cubezzzthe different is we know about the bad stuff now, where before we had no ideaNov 28 21:13
Guest67680I will be in the midland in the morning roy, what time are you due inNov 28 21:14
schestowitzEnder2070: yesterday someone mailed me about this http://mapper.nndb.com/start/?id=22625Nov 28 21:15
phIRCe-BNcTitle: NNDB Mapper .::. Size~: 2.35 KBNov 28 21:15
schestowitzIt's kind of UK-oriented thoughNov 28 21:15
schestowitzBut, wait.. does anything prevent people from doing the same thing with Facebook APIs?Nov 28 21:15
schestowitzI guess notNov 28 21:15
schestowitzI've used Facebook to expose people's cronyismNov 28 21:15
schestowitzSo from certain angles it can be usefulNov 28 21:15
cubezzzdoes facebook run off apache or windows server?Nov 28 21:15
schestowitzGuest67680: 12?Nov 28 21:16
schestowitz[21:16] <Guest67680> You coming gym in morning, i will be running then weights.Nov 28 21:16
schestowitzYeah, 12Nov 28 21:16
schestowitzDon't use PM pleaseNov 28 21:16
schestowitzcubezzz: LAMPNov 28 21:16
Guest67680i normally go earlier, so i have the rest of the day to study, how about 10 for you?Nov 28 21:16
schestowitzThey are just close to Microsoft thoughNov 28 21:16
schestowitzZuckenflop is mates with patent troll Nathan and Mundie, IIRCNov 28 21:17
schestowitzOr Ozzie ratherNov 28 21:17
schestowitzMundie is mates with lobbyists and all sort of evil people.... oh, and he attends BilderbergNov 28 21:17
Guest67680Will they ever invent a drug which will suppress our ego's, i wonder. Nov 28 21:18
Guest67680i'll be in at 10, cheerioNov 28 21:20
schestowitz10 is goodNov 28 21:20
schestowitzDrug industry is another...Nov 28 21:21
schestowitzanti-depressants Nov 28 21:21
schestowitzmore harm than good...Nov 28 21:21
Guest67680medicalising bad bahaviour/parenting in children, its all a cop out.Nov 28 21:22
Guest67680Nobody wants to take responsibility so they say its a disease!?Nov 28 21:22
Guest67680and big pharma lines its pockets yet againNov 28 21:23
Guest67680another generation of drug dependent customersNov 28 21:24
*yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-96-253-143-208.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovellNov 28 21:25
schestowitz[21:22] <Guest67680> Nobody wants to take responsibility so they say its a disease!?Nov 28 21:25
schestowitzyesNov 28 21:25
schestowitzNon-conformity as illnessNov 28 21:25
schestowitzLet me show you a vid....Nov 28 21:25
schestowitzHere, Guest67680Nov 28 21:27
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McPnMQ31W_kNov 28 21:27
schestowitz"Nov 28 21:27
schestowitzThis Clip shows the how R.D. Laing and the Anti Psychiatry movement attacked the Psychiatric and Medical establishment in the United States. Laing argued that Madness and Sanity were only convenient labels used by society to exercise control over people. It also shows how his ideas then influenced another psychologist David Rosenhan to conduct an experiment that would later seriously undermine psychiatric practice at the time.Nov 28 21:27
schestowitzPs. These clips are taken from a British documentary series called The Trap:What happened to our dreams of Freedom. The series are created by Adam Curtis a British documentary film maker. I can strongly recommend just about every documentary he has ever made. For Freudian psychology and its influence on consumer culture see The century of the self and for contemporary politics and the War on Terror see The power of nightmares. Both Nov 28 21:27
schestowitzare brilliant, History of ideas at it's finest. Nov 28 21:27
schestowitz"Nov 28 21:27
Guest67680i know it was me that recommended century of the self to youNov 28 21:28
Guest67680its good isn't itNov 28 21:28
yuhonghttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/10/26/power-bloggers-vista-7/Nov 28 21:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Feeds Hundreds of Korean Bloggers to Promote Vista 7 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 120 KBNov 28 21:28
yuhongWas that really a bribe?Nov 28 21:28
Guest67680i am watching it now, will report back later, bye royNov 28 21:29
schestowitzGuest67680: yes, I passed it aroundNov 28 21:29
schestowitzyuhong: yesNov 28 21:29
yuhongEvidence?Nov 28 21:29
schestowitzBribe is not always a green piece of paper under tableNov 28 21:29
schestowitzCall it "incentive" if you likeNov 28 21:29
schestowitzBriberies are commonplaceNov 28 21:30
yuhongYep.Nov 28 21:30
schestowitzThey just don't all get labeled thatNov 28 21:30
schestowitzAstroTurfing tooNov 28 21:30
schestowitzFake fanbasesNov 28 21:30
yuhongI know.Nov 28 21:30
yuhongBut looks like what happened was that MS hosted a launch event on 7 in Korea.Nov 28 21:30
schestowitzIf I offer you anything to do something you would exaggerate then it's a bribeNov 28 21:30
schestowitzMicrosoft does that at a massive scaleNov 28 21:30
Ender2070"MS prepared light dinner meal and Windows 7 Ultimate (Eng Ver.) for all the attendances. "Nov 28 21:30
schestowitzHuge budgetNov 28 21:30
Ender2070sounds like bribery to meNov 28 21:30
schestowitzInitially half a million green ones for the rebranded Vista (7)Nov 28 21:31
cubezzzdid they all get windows 7 whoppers? :)Nov 28 21:31
schestowitzThe "Real Mojave/:Nov 28 21:31
*sebsebseb has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 28 21:31
cubezzz"bloated and massive, just like the OS"Nov 28 21:31
yuhongI would not go that far.Nov 28 21:31
schestowitzYou always say that!Nov 28 21:31
yuhongI do.Nov 28 21:31
*sebsebseb (n=sebast@82-32-32-210.cable.ubr05.aztw.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellNov 28 21:31
Ender2070I would go as far as saying, perhaps all their launch events contain bribery?Nov 28 21:32
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?q=site:boycottnovell.com++I+would+not+go+that+far.&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-GBNov 28 21:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: site:boycottnovell.com  I would not go that far. - Google Search .::. Size~: 25.69 KBNov 28 21:32
yuhongLook at the changes in 7 compared to Vista, and it is not limited to the UI either.Nov 28 21:32
yuhongIt is far from it.Nov 28 21:32
Ender2070giving someone something for free which you sell for $300 retail isnt a bribe?Nov 28 21:33
yuhongI think it was a reward for attending the launch event.Nov 28 21:33
Ender2070rewardNov 28 21:33
Ender2070keywordNov 28 21:33
schestowitzHeheheNov 28 21:33
schestowitz"Incentive"Nov 28 21:33
yuhongYep.Nov 28 21:33
schestowitzHehe.Nov 28 21:33
schestowitzEuphemisms...Nov 28 21:34
yuhongYep.Nov 28 21:34
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/28/bribery-or-marketing-help/Nov 28 21:34
Ender2070if its not bribery, its a ploy to push their installed base statisticsNov 28 21:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Its Not Bribery If Its Just “Marketing Help” | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 137.04 KBNov 28 21:34
yuhongI know.Nov 28 21:34
schestowitzMicrosoft should be ashamed of itself, deeply ashamedNov 28 21:35
yuhongYep.Nov 28 21:35
cubezzza lot of guys leftNov 28 21:35
cubezzzit's not the mecca for tech anymoreNov 28 21:35
schestowitzLuckily for them, there are enough stupid people out there to only be exposed to their lying taking pointsNov 28 21:35
yuhongI know, even Scoble left around the time of Vista.Nov 28 21:35
schestowitzHe's uselessNov 28 21:35
schestowitzHe was just a shill or themNov 28 21:35
schestowitzHe didn't codeNov 28 21:35
schestowitzA marketing puppetNov 28 21:35
schestowitzLike Don DodgeNov 28 21:36
schestowitz"Buy me food to AstroTurf for you"Nov 28 21:36
schestowitzAnd Google bitNov 28 21:36
MinceRwhen was it the mecca for tech?Nov 28 21:36
yuhongI would not call it useless.Nov 28 21:36
MinceRwhen did they have anything but marketroids and lawyers?Nov 28 21:36
schestowitzIt's like one of those "adopt a <animal>" programmeNov 28 21:36
schestowitzThey buy themselves bloggers to become advertisersNov 28 21:37
schestowitzRecall the "people ready" fiascoNov 28 21:37
schestowitzWhen Microsoft bribes some more bloggers to pretend to be recommending MicrosoftNov 28 21:37
schestowitzAnd later they wonder why people don't trust themNov 28 21:37
schestowitzThey corrupt bloggers too now, not just mainstream mediaNov 28 21:37
yuhongNow of course Scoble is far from useless.Nov 28 21:37
yuhongI know.Nov 28 21:37
schestowitzAnd a fine example are those 700 Korean bloggersNov 28 21:37
schestowitzDon'\t try to defend themNov 28 21:38
schestowitzIt makes you look badNov 28 21:38
yuhongI was just going to say something about FTC's recent regulations encouraging MS to use Korean bloggers, unless I investigated further.Nov 28 21:39
Ender2070schestowitz - http://mapper.nndb.com/start/?id=22625 something like this would be pretty decent for mapping out team mono and its supportersNov 28 21:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: NNDB Mapper .::. Size~: 2.35 KBNov 28 21:39
yuhongI mean, why do you think they used Korean instead of US bloggers.Nov 28 21:40
yuhongClue: look at the recent FTC regulations on gifts to bloggers.Nov 28 21:41
schestowitzNaa.., Microsoft disregards the law anywayNov 28 21:41
schestowitzIt sees it as fascismNov 28 21:41
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/27/bill-gates-on-fascist-lawsuits/Nov 28 21:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Did Bill Gates Really Compare Law Enforcement to Fascism? | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 112.98 KBNov 28 21:41
cubezzzfound an exporter selling the lemoteNov 28 21:42
Ender2070cubezzz- sweetNov 28 21:42
cubezzzhttp://www.tekmote.nlNov 28 21:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Tekmote Electronics .::. Size~: 30.22 KBNov 28 21:42
yuhongI know.Nov 28 21:42
Ender2070english: http://www.tekmote.nl/epages/61504599.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectID=935271Nov 28 21:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Tekmote Electronics .::. Size~: 29.97 KBNov 28 21:42
cubezzzhow much is 215 euros in Canadian?Nov 28 21:43
Ender2070kind of expensive thoughNov 28 21:43
Ender2070http://www.xe.com/ucc/Nov 28 21:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle: XE - Universal Currency Converter .::. Size~: 52.34 KBNov 28 21:43
Ender2070$341Nov 28 21:44
cubezzznot _too_ badNov 28 21:44
schestowitzcubezzz: nice!Nov 28 21:45
Ender2070doesnt dell have ubuntu 10v's cheaper thoughNov 28 21:45
schestowitzIt's not just about priceNov 28 21:45
cubezzzhow much are 10v's?Nov 28 21:45
schestowitzYou could buy Windows for $5 or get it for free (gratis)Nov 28 21:46
schestowitzIt doesn't make it recommendableNov 28 21:46
cubezzzyeah that's not the issueNov 28 21:46
cubezzzit's not the 5 bucks :)Nov 28 21:46
schestowitzcubezzz: http://blogs.computerworld.com/15155/making_wise_black_friday_pc_salesNov 28 21:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Making wise Black Friday PC buys - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 133.35 KBNov 28 21:46
schestowitz"As for Linux, there's not a lot to pick from, I had one deal I liked a lot, a Dell's Vostro A90 Netbook for $184. This is a nice netbook that comes with Ubuntu Linux, but it appears that they're already sold out. Sigh."Nov 28 21:46
Ender2070http://www1.ca.dell.com/ca/en/business/Laptops/laptop-vostro-a90/pd.aspx?refid=laptop-vostro-a90&s=bsd&cs=cabsdt1Nov 28 21:46
schestowitzhttp://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/dell_releases_customized_version_of_chrome_os.phpNov 28 21:46
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/183318/dell_offers_custom_chromium_os_download_for_mini_10v.htmlNov 28 21:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Dell Offers Custom Chromium OS Download For Mini 10V - PC World .::. Size~: 75.47 KBNov 28 21:46
schestowitzcubezzz: new: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/Dell-Customizes-Chrome-OS-For-The-Dell-Mini-10v-510639/Nov 28 21:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Dell Customizes Chrome OS For The Dell Mini 10v .::. Size~: 123.86 KBNov 28 21:46
cubezzzyes, I know about the $184 VostrosNov 28 21:47
Ender2070I don't mind dell's linux offeringsNov 28 21:47
cubezzzthey are far more in CanadaNov 28 21:47
Ender2070yeahNov 28 21:47
Ender2070they dont have ubuntu 10v's in canada eitherNov 28 21:47
cubezzzI wanted a ARM box Nov 28 21:47
cubezzzstill lookingNov 28 21:47
Ender2070I always finance stuff from dellNov 28 21:48
Ender2070which is why i like themNov 28 21:48
Ender2070if i had to pay up front i wouldn't own a laptopNov 28 21:48
cubezzzhaven't heard from SVN in a whileNov 28 21:48
cubezzzsee, there's no ARM based stuff reallyNov 28 21:49
sebsebsebschestowitz: Will I like Mandriva One KDE 4 is the question, well i'll find out in a bit, I am downloading the packagesNov 28 21:49
sebsebsebMandriva 2010 :)Nov 28 21:49
yuhongI just wrote a comment on the difference between web applications and desktop applications.Nov 28 21:49
yuhonghttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/18/vista-7-trojans-forecast/comment-page-1/#comment-76223Nov 28 21:49
Ender2070im grabbing fedora rawhideNov 28 21:49
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Vista 7 Trojans Forecast and Microsoft Hardware Licences | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 142.87 KBNov 28 21:49
Ender2070Current: Rawhide(F13): kde-4.3.75/qt-4.6.0-rc1Nov 28 21:49
sebsebsebEnder2070: I haven't been a KDE fanNov 28 21:50
sebsebsebKDE 4 fanNov 28 21:50
sebsebsebjust  like with KDE 3, I would run a few KDE apps in GnomeNov 28 21:50
sebsebsebgot rid of Ubuntu 9.10 recently and put Mandriva on instead :)Nov 28 21:50
sebsebseband been running with GnomeNov 28 21:50
schestowitzWatch this headline http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/22/kindle-ereader-amazon-intelligent-investing-microsoft.html try to guess what it's about? Consumerism!!! Kinder, gentler.Nov 28 21:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: A Kindle, Gentler Nation - Forbes.com .::. Size~: 32.22 KBNov 28 21:50
Ender2070im not a gnome fan anymoreNov 28 21:50
cubezzzMini 10v is Intel AtomNov 28 21:50
Ender2070I got tired of their "its too hard to fix lets just remove it for usability" stanceNov 28 21:50
sebsebsebEnder2070: yeah Gnome is getting a bit hmm as wellNov 28 21:50
sebsebsebEnder2070: for example how, in Fedora 12 and Ubuntu 9.10, there aren't any icons in the system menuNov 28 21:51
*cubezzz tries everythingNov 28 21:51
schestowitzsebsebseb: good, Mandriva is worth supportingNov 28 21:51
schestowitzAs one person put it when I chatted, "we should put our weight being Mandriva as flag carrier"Nov 28 21:51
schestowitzNot UbuntuNov 28 21:51
schestowitzNot exact quote, eitherNov 28 21:51
sebsebsebEnder2070: also connect to server  or whatever and something else is missing iconNov 28 21:51
cubezzzschestowitz, what about Fedora?Nov 28 21:51
sebsebsebMandriva has icons for all that though at the moment :)Nov 28 21:51
Ender2070sebsebseb - thats "usability instead of fixing"Nov 28 21:52
sebsebsebEnder2070: meaning?Nov 28 21:52
Ender2070sebsebseb - they couldnt agree on what to do about icons so they just removed themNov 28 21:52
schestowitzcubezzz: it got good reviewsNov 28 21:52
sebsebsebupstream Gnome?Nov 28 21:52
schestowitzMuch better than everNov 28 21:52
Ender2070yesNov 28 21:52
cubezzzHigh end Lemote looks pretty niceNov 28 21:52
sebsebsebEnder2070: I think that's stupid what's been doneNov 28 21:53
schestowitzSign od matureity for Linux as a wholeNov 28 21:53
sebsebsebmaybe Mandriva did as well, hence the icons :)Nov 28 21:53
schestowitz*ofNov 28 21:53
cubezzzLemote is even Stallman approved, and you know that's not easy :)Nov 28 21:53
Ender2070http://www.osnews.com/story/21935/GNOME_To_Drop_Icons_in_Buttons_MenusNov 28 21:53
schestowitzYesNov 28 21:53
phIRCe-BNcTitle: GNOME To Drop Icons in Buttons, Menus .::. Size~: 21.96 KBNov 28 21:53
schestowitzChinese making chips for ChinaNov 28 21:53
schestowitzNot for exploiters, IMHONov 28 21:53
schestowitzChina needs more local companiesNov 28 21:53
schestowitzThey need to run their own shopsNov 28 21:53
sebsebsebGnome new GDM 2 is uhmm well in Ubuntu 9.10 anyway,  it's ok in Fedora 12 and 11.  can't be themed like the old one thoughNov 28 21:53
schestowitzNot have it outsoucedNov 28 21:53
schestowitzLike Foxconn doing Dell's dirty laundryNov 28 21:54
schestowitzAnd the same goes for Apple BTWNov 28 21:54
sebsebsebschestowitz: I know your a Mandriva fan, but why do you think Mandriva  is a good one to support?Nov 28 21:54
Ender2070I think Fedora is probably a good distro to supportNov 28 21:54
Ender2070not mandrivaNov 28 21:54
schestowitzEnder2070: Mandriva is desktop-focusedNov 28 21:54
sebsebsebthese Mandriva commands seem odd to me still, but that's since I am used to sudo apt-get install and sudo aptitude install  and stuff like thatNov 28 21:54
schestowitzit concentrated on ease and integrationNov 28 21:54
Ender2070fedora is desktop focusedNov 28 21:54
schestowitzUbuntu is too Mono- and GNOME-chummyNov 28 21:55
Ender2070mandriva also includes a lot of proprietary stuffNov 28 21:55
sebsebsebschestowitz: GNOME chummy what do you mean?Nov 28 21:55
schestowitzAnd Ubuntu has other deficiencies and people complained about 9.10Nov 28 21:55
Ender2070my listNov 28 21:55
schestowitzRed Hat has enough ego from its server marketNov 28 21:55
schestowitzIt would not be good if it also controlled desktop as de facto leaderNov 28 21:55
cubezzzthere's no perfect OSNov 28 21:56
Ender2070Fedora > Kubuntu > OpenSuSENov 28 21:56
sebsebsebcubezzz: indeedNov 28 21:56
schestowitzSeparation of power is also why IBM helped Novell buy SuSENov 28 21:56
cubezzzbut with FOSS at least you can change stuffNov 28 21:56
schestowitzLEt Red Hat and Novell compete on priceNov 28 21:56
sebsebsebyep and with virtual machines you can mix OS's togetherNov 28 21:56
sebsebseb:)Nov 28 21:56
schestowitzIt also makes it cheaper for IBM to buy server s/wNov 28 21:56
Ender2070red hat doesn't control the fedora community, they will do whatever they want for desktop linuxNov 28 21:57
cubezzztekmote even take paypal, temptingNov 28 21:57
sebsebsebschestowitz: Ubuntu is to GNOME chummy?  meaning?Nov 28 21:57
Ender2070fedora excludes non free software, doesn't even support mp3sNov 28 21:58
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] So happy fixed disk issue on desktop pc. turned out to be dodgy SATA cable. Phew! Also, I get to watch a RAID set rebuild. yay!Nov 28 21:58
cubezzzI've used a ton of different operating systems...Nov 28 21:58
cubezzzand I keep liking FedoraNov 28 21:58
sebsebsebI am Manriva  for now, but  I will probably put Ubuntu 10.04 on this computer  after it's been released, but that will mean getting rid of Mandriva, but then I might end up putting Mandriva back onNov 28 21:58
Ender2070sameNov 28 21:58
Ender2070and I like the KDE SIGNov 28 21:58
sebsebsebI started with Fedora and no Internet access since this stupid wireless device...Nov 28 21:59
sebsebseb,but even offlineNov 28 21:59
Ender2070wireless is badNov 28 21:59
cubezzzwires are good! :)Nov 28 21:59
sebsebsebFedora Core 2 and 4  were rather nice OS'sNov 28 21:59
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sebsebsebyeah well that computer got hard wired later on, and I went Ubuntu :)Nov 28 21:59
Ender2070Fedora for the longest time enforced that kernel option which won't let tainted modules runNov 28 22:00
schestowitzsebsebseb: I mean, Ubuntu gravitates towards some Microsoft/Novell trojans, but that's changingNov 28 22:01
cubezzzLFS seems to have diedNov 28 22:01
schestowitzNow OpenSUSE moves to KDE4, so I assume Novell also rethinks its cardsNov 28 22:01
schestowitzAnd Mandriva does the same codec game as Canonical. They have some compromises as well.Nov 28 22:01
schestowitzcubezzz: yes, almostNov 28 22:02
schestowitzThey don't make many releasesNov 28 22:02
Ender2070fedora doesnt play the codec gameNov 28 22:02
schestowitzBut made a recent oneNov 28 22:02
schestowitzIt's not deafNov 28 22:02
sebsebsebschestowitz: codec game???Nov 28 22:02
Ender2070thats the good pointNov 28 22:02
schestowitz*DeadNov 28 22:02
schestowitzsebsebseb: spreading patented codecs, Mandriva sells some, Canonical too, for RemixNov 28 22:02
cubezzzah okNov 28 22:02
schestowitzcubezzz: from August 2009:Nov 28 22:03
schestowitzLinux from Scratch 6.5: The DIY operating system guideNov 28 22:03
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Nov 28 22:03
schestowitz| The Linux From Scratch project has released version 6.5 of its step-by-stepNov 28 22:03
schestowitz| instructions on how to create your own Linux system from scratch. The 300Nov 28 22:03
schestowitz| pages of instructions show how to obtain the source code components and thenNov 28 22:03
schestowitz| compile your own 32-bit Linux system.Nov 28 22:03
schestowitz`----Nov 28 22:03
schestowitzhttp://www.h-online.com/open/Linux-from-Scratch-6-5-The-DIY-operating-system-guide--/news/114017Nov 28 22:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Linux from Scratch 6.5: The DIY operating system guide - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 32.14 KBNov 28 22:03
Ender2070LFS is annoying to be honestNov 28 22:03
MinceRhow so?Nov 28 22:03
sebsebsebschestowitz: uhmm not sure what you mean, but Canonical offer some commercial software in their online shopNov 28 22:03
Ender2070manually getting the packages sucksNov 28 22:04
Ender2070i prefer portage at leastNov 28 22:04
Ender2070(gentoo)Nov 28 22:04
cubezzztinycore :)Nov 28 22:05
Ender2070tinycore is niceNov 28 22:05
Ender2070but useless without gcc imoNov 28 22:05
cubezzzyou can add gcc to itNov 28 22:06
Ender2070but then its no longer tinyNov 28 22:06
Ender2070lolNov 28 22:06
yuhongOn codecs, from http://blog.canonical.com/?p=151:Nov 28 22:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Canonical Blog  » Blog Archive   » Microsoft, FUD and the netbook market .::. Size~: 23.76 KBNov 28 22:06
yuhong"What makes a real difference to return rates is not whether it’s Linux or not, but the quality of the device’s hardware and the ability to fully partake in web and media experiences, such as:Nov 28 22:06
yuhong*Adobe Flash player being pre-installedNov 28 22:06
yuhong* Basic media codecs being pre-installed (these add a few dollars to the cost of a PC)"Nov 28 22:06
yuhongI think the real solution is to spread open media formats.Nov 28 22:07
Ender2070+1Nov 28 22:07
Ender2070google chrome might cause flash to be replaced with html5Nov 28 22:08
Ender2070they made a big deal about thatNov 28 22:08
Ender2070chrome osNov 28 22:08
yuhongI know.Nov 28 22:08
Ender2070like i said months agoNov 28 22:08
schestowitzhttp://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/breaking/6736210.htmlNov 28 22:08
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Digest: Lawyer sentenced in fraud case | Breaking News |  Chron.com - Houston Chronicle .::. Size~: 47.16 KBNov 28 22:08
Ender2070why pay adobe royalties, when google buys the technology behind html5Nov 28 22:08
yuhong"Customers have every right to expect these basics in their netbooks and we recommend them to manufacturers. "Nov 28 22:09
Ender2070i dont see why those customers can't get prompted to install the non free stuffNov 28 22:10
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovellNov 28 22:10
Ender2070for example fedora doesn't include anything non free, but there are repo's you can add which give you that stuffNov 28 22:12
Ender2070very well supported 3rd party repos tooNov 28 22:12
Ender2070rpmfusion is a good exampleNov 28 22:12
schestowitz[22:03] <sebsebseb> schestowitz: uhmm not sure what you mean, but Canonical offer some commercial software in their online shopNov 28 22:12
schestowitzYou mean proprietaryNov 28 22:12
schestowitzFree software is commercialNov 28 22:12
schestowitzAnd Remix has codecs that are paid for, including Microsoft's poolsNov 28 22:13
schestowitzMark Shuttleworth was negotiating w/ Microsoft in 2007Nov 28 22:13
schestowitzI heard from someone who spoke to himNov 28 22:13
sebsebsebschestowitz: pools?Nov 28 22:13
schestowitz[22:08] <Ender2070> google chrome might cause flash to be replaced with html5Nov 28 22:14
schestowitzThey bought a 'codec company'Nov 28 22:14
schestowitzNo explanation just yetNov 28 22:14
Ender2070that was my theory a while agoNov 28 22:14
schestowitzBut Google owns ('owns') like 70% of Web videoNov 28 22:14
Ender2070they bought the codec company to push html5Nov 28 22:14
schestowitzI hope soNov 28 22:14
schestowitzIt would give them good karmaNov 28 22:15
Ender2070yesNov 28 22:15
Ender2070they emphasized html5 video for chrome osNov 28 22:15
schestowitz /Whose/ html5?Nov 28 22:15
schestowitzThere's trouble cause of companiesNov 28 22:15
schestowitzWWW created by CERN physicistNov 28 22:15
schestowitzTo share papers and get correctionsNov 28 22:16
schestowitzLike WikipediaNov 28 22:16
schestowitzBut things changedNov 28 22:16
yuhongYep, but on codecs, I think it is unfair to just point fingers at MS.Nov 28 22:16
schestowitzIt's no longer confined to his MIT tenureNov 28 22:16
yuhongI know.Nov 28 22:16
schestowitzCerf works for Google nowNov 28 22:16
yuhongYep.Nov 28 22:16
schestowitzANd guess who runs HTML?Nov 28 22:16
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/08/28/html-working-group-impact/Nov 28 22:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) Detoxicated from Microsoft Influence, But Regains Microsoft and Apple Presence | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 114.59 KBNov 28 22:16
schestowitzApple attacked oggNov 28 22:17
schestowitzw/ NokiaNov 28 22:17
yuhong"You mean proprietary"Nov 28 22:17
schestowitzSOmeone who worker for MicrosoftNov 28 22:17
yuhongYep, another myth debunked by the FSF.Nov 28 22:17
schestowitzIt comes from MicrosoftNov 28 22:17
schestowitzIn part at elastNov 28 22:17
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/06/23/bill-gates-mocks-gpl/Nov 28 22:18
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bill Gates Mocks Free Software by Substituting “Proprietary” With “Commercial” | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 176.3 KBNov 28 22:18
schestowitzhttp://www.themoneytimes.com/reviews/20091125/godfather-spam-gets-4-years-behind-bars-id-1092028.htmlNov 28 22:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: “Godfather of Spam” Gets 4 Years Behind Bars  | The Money Times .::. Size~: 31.1 KBNov 28 22:20
PetoKraushahaha: http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/697221235_AxzRa-L.jpgNov 28 22:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBNov 28 22:22
yuhongScoble today don't seem to be too bad.Nov 28 22:22
*magentar (n=frederic@ip-109-90-135-190.unitymediagroup.de) has joined #boycottnovellNov 28 22:25
schestowitzObamaa [sic] is sleeping with more corporations, including maker of rootkits. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Microsoft-and-Sony-Join-President-Obama-in-Promoting-Science-127852.shtmlNov 28 22:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft and Sony Join President Obama in Promoting Science - Through videogaming - Softpedia .::. Size~: 48.69 KBNov 28 22:26
schestowitzyuhong: he hasn't said anything that upset FOSS people in yearsNov 28 22:26
yuhongYep, exactly.Nov 28 22:26
yuhongScoble even likes Chrome OS nowadays.Nov 28 22:27
schestowitzServer's too slow today for a holiday SaturdayNov 28 22:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Software Patents legislation in preparation in Mexico: http://i5.be/VMNov 28 22:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitter .::. Size~: 22.31 KBNov 28 22:27
yuhonghttp://scobleizer.com/2009/05/24/watch-the-google-anthill-move-toward-social-and-real-time/Nov 28 22:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Watch the Google anthill move toward social and real time .::. Size~: 44.21 KBNov 28 22:29
yuhong"This week Google is having its I/O conference. Executives there told me to be there to witness the shift. They’ve also given me a small look at some of what’s coming. One even told me that it’ll be like the first Microsoft NT developer’s conference in its importance of what gets shown."Nov 28 22:29
schestowitzhttp://www.nowgamer.com/news/1822/microsoft-didnt-ban-1m-users-after-allNov 28 22:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft Didn't Ban 1m Users After All | NowGamer .::. Size~: 45.92 KBNov 28 22:29
schestowitzgaming sites are big AstroTurfersNov 28 22:30
schestowitzYou need to know which one shills for who.....Nov 28 22:30
yuhonghttp://www.linux.com/community/blogs/the-ghost-of-marc-andreessen-comes-back-as-google-chrome-os-to-haunt-microsoft.html?blogger=Christian+EinfeldtNov 28 22:31
*sebsebseb has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Nov 28 22:32
yuhong"  At that time, Andreessen concluded that the Internet browser would render Microsoft's Windows operating system as little more than a "slightly buggy set of drivers", meaning the software that makes hardware components run. "Nov 28 22:33
yuhong"Google is selling services, not software, so Google will not fall prey to Microsoft's tactic of "cutting of Netscape's air supply" by giving away the Microsoft Internet Explorer. "Nov 28 22:33
MinceRslightly?Nov 28 22:34
Ender2070http://www.xkcd.org/528/Nov 28 22:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: xkcd - A webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language - By Randall Munroe .::. Size~: 8.48 KBNov 28 22:34
yuhongThat is a different matter.Nov 28 22:34
*sebsebseb (n=sebast@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovellNov 28 22:35
sebsebsebokNov 28 22:35
sebsebsebI am on KDE 4 nowNov 28 22:35
schestowitzhttp://www.financialexpress.com/news/Microsoft-showcases-Indic-language-input-tools/546545/Nov 28 22:35
schestowitzHmmmmm....Nov 28 22:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft showcases Indic language input tools .::. Size~: 70.57 KBNov 28 22:35
schestowitzsebsebseb: .3?Nov 28 22:36
sebsebsebschestowitz: yes  Mandriva One KDE 4.3Nov 28 22:36
schestowitzEnder2070: that cartoon may be insulting to HitlerNov 28 22:37
schestowitzsebsebseb: so 4.3.2 iircNov 28 22:37
sebsebsebit's like Kubuntu 9.10, but didn't load up rubbish with itNov 28 22:38
sebsebsebit's more KDE 3 like  yep :)Nov 28 22:38
sebsebsebhover effects and such :)Nov 28 22:38
schestowitzVista rendered hundreds of millions of PCs unusable and many fledNov 28 22:38
sebsebsebschestowitz: it's  a bit like Vista actsaulyNov 28 22:39
sebsebsebsince the  thumbnail effectNov 28 22:39
schestowitzI used only 4.1 and 4.3.1Nov 28 22:39
sebsebseband suchNov 28 22:39
schestowitzYou can dim windows when you're in the panelsNov 28 22:39
schestowitzIt's a kwin effectNov 28 22:39
schestowitzCompiz-inheritedNov 28 22:39
*_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat")Nov 28 22:39
schestowitzAlso, enable the thing that blows up windows visauallyNov 28 22:39
schestowitz"Fall apart" iircNov 28 22:39
yuhonghttp://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1426425&cid=29940189Nov 28 22:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot Comments | Microsoft's Lost Decade .::. Size~: 37.06 KBNov 28 22:40
yuhong"Vista rendered hundreds of millions of PCs unusable "Nov 28 22:41
yuhongReally?Nov 28 22:41
schestowitzhttp://www.viploan.co.uk/article/Business-3586.shtmlNov 28 22:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Vip News : Microsoft steadfast to grab hold of smartphones market in India .::. Size~: 18 KBNov 28 22:41
schestowitzyuhong: they came with it, users escaped to Linux or XPNov 28 22:42
yuhongI know, but did it really made the PC unusable?Nov 28 22:42
schestowitzOn the matter of this topic, Kildall said in the May 25, 1981 issue of InfoWorld [google.com] that "we don't need to get greedy; we have plenty of business providing the software tools. "Nov 28 22:43
schestowitzWell, he was a scientistNov 28 22:43
schestowitzThey don't pursue greed as muchNov 28 22:43
schestowitzgates was not a scientistNov 28 22:43
*sebsebseb has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 28 22:43
schestowitzAnd he came from a family of of greedNov 28 22:43
schestowitzLetter to hobbyists... manifestation of stopping the sharing of goodsNov 28 22:43
yuhongYep, artifical scaracity.Nov 28 22:44
Ender2070Ken Hess has been getting better at his articlesNov 28 22:44
schestowitzYes, I noticedNov 28 22:44
schestowitzIt changed after he spoke to RMSNov 28 22:44
Ender2070yeahNov 28 22:44
schestowitzSuddenly he writes about GNU and stuffNov 28 22:44
*Guest67680 has quit ("Page closed")Nov 28 22:44
yuhongYep, there is a point I am trying to make.Nov 28 22:44
Ender2070I write an anti article to his "too many open source licenses"Nov 28 22:44
schestowitz2 years ago he invited Microsoft to hire himNov 28 22:44
schestowitzShockingNov 28 22:44
Ender2070yeahNov 28 22:45
Ender2070i emailed him saying keep up the good workNov 28 22:45
Ender2070lolNov 28 22:45
schestowitzGood.Nov 28 22:45
schestowitzHe's not baitish anymoreNov 28 22:45
Ender2070yeah exactlyNov 28 22:45
Ender2070i think he was just mislead beforeNov 28 22:45
schestowitzjperlowNov 28 22:45
schestowitzet alNov 28 22:46
Ender2070RMS probably talked a lot of sense into himNov 28 22:46
schestowitzMaybe he realised RMS was really a nice guyNov 28 22:46
Ender2070:)Nov 28 22:46
schestowitzhttp://www.frugaltechshow.com/stallman/Nov 28 22:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Frugal Tech Show .::. Size~: 8.12 KBNov 28 22:47
schestowitzPlays in FF 3.5Nov 28 22:47
schestowitzColleague: http://blogs.zdnet.com/perlow/?p=11203Nov 28 22:47
schestowitzjperlow no longer hangs out hereNov 28 22:47
schestowitzBut then again, he hardly blogs, eitherNov 28 22:48
schestowitzMaybe installing some Wintendos+HyperVeee for IBM customersNov 28 22:48
Ender2070ogg files :DNov 28 22:48
schestowitzYs, oggNov 28 22:48
schestowitzjperlow compressed them while hereNov 28 22:49
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/irc-log-30092009.htmlNov 28 22:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 30th, 2009 .::. Size~: 628.45 KBNov 28 22:50
yuhong"Wintendos+HyperVeee"Nov 28 22:50
yuhongFunny!Nov 28 22:50
yuhongBTW, I uninstalled AVG from my Vista machine and it runs much faster.Nov 28 22:51
schestowitzIs this true? 'Microsoft Corp. has done more to popularize graphical programming than any other vendor." http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9141465/Microsoft_s_top_developers_prefer_old_school_coding_methodsNov 28 22:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Microsoft's top developers prefer old-school coding methods .::. Size~: 138.34 KBNov 28 22:51
schestowitzIt's Eric Microsoft Redmond laiNov 28 22:51
schestowitzSo he could be exaggerating, maybe it's revisionism tooNov 28 22:52
schestowitzWhat was Borland up to at the time?Nov 28 22:52
schestowitzyuhong: you could run WIndows+DX in VirtualBox under UbuntuNov 28 22:52
yuhongRemember when I talked about how my machine came with a Vista preload.Nov 28 22:53
schestowitzThe dumping on Malta continues..... http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20091128/business/microsoft-solutions-to-be-launched-on-wednesdayNov 28 22:53
phIRCe-BNcTitle: timesofmalta.com - Microsoft Solutions to be launched on Wednesday .::. Size~: 43.86 KBNov 28 22:53
schestowitzThey dress themselves up on any nation that moves to FOSS or talks about itNov 28 22:53
*sebsebseb (n=sebast@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovellNov 28 22:54
sebsebsebright backNov 28 22:54
yuhongAnyway, one of the preinstalled software was a trial of anti-virus software.Nov 28 22:58
yuhongI uninstalled it and installed AVG Free.Nov 28 22:59
yuhongBut after seeing many slowdowns caused by it, and I verified it using a debugger and Process Explorer that it was really caused by AVG, I uninstalled it.Nov 28 23:00
yuhongAnd indeed it made my system ran faster.Nov 28 23:00
Ender2070http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Ubuntu-One-Clients-for-KDE-and-FedoraNov 28 23:00
schestowitzI never messed about with AVNov 28 23:00
schestowitzIn my Compaq with Win98 there was McAfee bundled as cr*pwareNov 28 23:00
schestowitzThey used scarewareNov 28 23:01
yuhongYep.Nov 28 23:01
schestowitzNot in the proper senseNov 28 23:01
schestowitzLike, they would display ugly picturesNov 28 23:01
sebsebsebschestowitz: hmm  I can't get into home except the icon on desktop, I mean it's not on the panelNov 28 23:01
schestowitzof biological virusesNov 28 23:01
schestowitzAnd my dad would be intimidated by theseNov 28 23:01
schestowitzThey ask for moneyNov 28 23:01
yuhonghttp://www.dailytech.com/Study+Win+7+is+Lean+But+Many+Windows+7+Laptops+are+Badly+Bloated/article16678.htmNov 28 23:01
schestowitzLike, "your 30 days expires...... blah... you may have viruses"Nov 28 23:01
schestowitz*expiredNov 28 23:02
schestowitzIn win95 I didn't use AVNov 28 23:02
schestowitzBut I liked it when as kids we nuked each other in IRCNov 28 23:02
yuhongI know, it was not that scary, but I remember seeing them.Nov 28 23:02
schestowitz*ICQNov 28 23:02
schestowitzWin95 at its finestNov 28 23:02
schestowitzGet IP -> take downNov 28 23:02
phIRCe-BNcTitle: DailyTech .::. Size~: 2.14 KBNov 28 23:02
phIRCe-BNcWin95 at its finestNov 28 23:02
phIRCe-BNcGet IP -> take downNov 28 23:02
schestowitzAnd then there was anti-nukeNov 28 23:02
yuhongI know.Nov 28 23:02
schestowitzSo after a while we all just ran an executable not to be intercepted by matesNov 28 23:03
schestowitzOr hide in ICQNov 28 23:03
schestowitzNot to be seen by the friendNov 28 23:03
Ender2070ICQNov 28 23:03
Ender2070heheheNov 28 23:03
schestowitzWindows patching management....Nov 28 23:03
Ender2070i loved itNov 28 23:03
schestowitzNon-existentNov 28 23:03
yuhonghttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/10/17/lockheed-martin-shoots-foot/#comment-74409Nov 28 23:03
schestowitzYou'd need to patch manuallyNov 28 23:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Lockheed Martin Shoots Own Foot with Microsoft | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 116.37 KBNov 28 23:03
yuhongI know, WinMe introduced auto-update.Nov 28 23:03
schestowitzEnder2070: yes, I met some people via ICQNov 28 23:04
schestowitzSome I still keep in touch withNov 28 23:04
yuhongWin98 introduced Windows Update.Nov 28 23:04
schestowitzSome people still use win98 SENov 28 23:04
schestowitzI have it hereNov 28 23:04
schestowitzMaybe the CD still works OKNov 28 23:04
schestowitzNot that I have any need for itNov 28 23:04
yuhongI know, I still have a CD too.Nov 28 23:05
schestowitzWine has better compat than win98, but I don't use wine eitherNov 28 23:05
Ender2070i didnt know about Linux till 1999Nov 28 23:05
Ender2070so i had DOS, Win95, Win98/SENov 28 23:05
schestowitzA friend from school used it around 98Nov 28 23:05
Ender2070a little win2kNov 28 23:05
schestowitzOn dsktopNov 28 23:05
schestowitzBut I resented Microsoft for its crime even around that time. I was acutely aware of themNov 28 23:06
schestowitzNetscape case, 1998Nov 28 23:06
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2008/10/05/how-i-became-familiar-with-microsoft-misbehaviour/Nov 28 23:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: schestowitz.com  » Blog Archive   » How I Became Familiar with Microsoft Misbehaviour .::. Size~: 35.68 KBNov 28 23:06
Ender2070yeahNov 28 23:06
Ender2070i was aware of the issues back then tooNov 28 23:07
yuhongyep.Nov 28 23:07
Ender2070my high school made us use win98se and ie5Nov 28 23:07
Ender2070it was the most terrible thing i had to put up withNov 28 23:07
schestowitzIs this true: "Microsoft Corp. has done more to popularize graphical programming than any other vendor. "Nov 28 23:07
schestowitzor technowaffle?Nov 28 23:07
Ender2070graphical programming?Nov 28 23:07
Ender2070perhapsNov 28 23:07
Ender2070Visual BasicNov 28 23:07
schestowitzAny precedence?Nov 28 23:08
schestowitzThey usually copy someoneNov 28 23:08
schestowitzThen eliminate rivalNov 28 23:08
schestowitzAnd claim to have "popularised" office suites|GUI|SolitaireNov 28 23:08
yuhongYep, VB6, and VBA still survives today as part of Office.Nov 28 23:08
Ender2070im not sure if they copied anyone, but it didn't do well till VB6Nov 28 23:08
trmancoVeeBee?Nov 28 23:09
Ender2070actually i wonder if they ripped off amigaNov 28 23:09
Ender2070it was quite graphicalNov 28 23:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] RAID array built. That is all.Nov 28 23:10
Ender2070ahhhhhhhNov 28 23:11
Ender2070schestowitz - they didnt invent it :)Nov 28 23:11
yuhonghttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/154174Nov 28 23:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Invalid ICMP Datagram Fragments Hang Windows NT, Windows 95 .::. Size~: 44.35 KBNov 28 23:11
Ender2070schestowitz - they bought a guy who didNov 28 23:11
Ender2070http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Basic#HistoryNov 28 23:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Visual Basic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 93.86 KBNov 28 23:11
yuhonghttp://support.microsoft.com/kb/179129Nov 28 23:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: STOP 0x0000000A or 0x00000019 Due to Modified Teardrop Attack .::. Size~: 44.17 KBNov 28 23:12
Ender2070they may have also competed with BorlandNov 28 23:13
Ender2070DelphiaNov 28 23:13
Ender2070Delphi*Nov 28 23:13
yuhongSome old articles from MS KB about the attacks.Nov 28 23:13
Ender2070http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CodeGear_DelphiNov 28 23:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Embarcadero Delphi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 78.58 KBNov 28 23:14
yuhongYea, I once download the latest version of Turbo C++.Nov 28 23:15
yuhongBut I did not use it at all and later it was uninstalled.Nov 28 23:15
Ender2070lolNov 28 23:16
Ender2070i remember back in the day when broadband was scarce, i wanted to pay someone to download redhat 6 for meNov 28 23:16
Ender2070they wanted to charge me like $60, saying redhat charged a lot more than he wasNov 28 23:17
Ender2070i died laughing at himNov 28 23:17
Ender2070the dude was selling pirated windows cheaper, probably cause redhat 6 was so many cdsNov 28 23:19
yuhongYea, remember Infomagic and other CD vendors.Nov 28 23:19
Ender2070i got my first cd burner in 2001 and broadbandNov 28 23:19
Ender2070luckily i didnt have to deal with too muchNov 28 23:19
Ender2070i had another friend get me redhat 6 for the cost of the blank disksNov 28 23:20
Ender2070i remember OpenCaldaraNov 28 23:20
Ender2070its installer included tetris so you wouldn't be bored during installNov 28 23:20
schestowitzhttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems#Adobe.2FMacromedia_Flash_PlayerNov 28 23:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Forbidden items - FedoraProject .::. Size~: 33.26 KBNov 28 23:22
schestowitz"[PJ: And that's what I love about Fedora. Mandriva also offers a free-only version now, and so I have both. And I just put Knoppix on my Mandriva flash drive that I messed up earlier by being too creative by half, and I use that to boot up on an XP netbook.."Nov 28 23:22
schestowitz"..someone just gave me, so those are my three currently.I love each of them for different things. But if you'd like to think about why it matters when companies encumber software with patents, take a look at the list of forbidden items. It's basic functionality that is at stake.]"Nov 28 23:23
schestowitzhttp://www.sr.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=1646&artikel=3240254Nov 28 23:25
yuhongAnyway, I remember that Kildall's wife was pissed off at IBM for having DR sign an NDA that had many problems.Nov 28 23:30
schestowitzhttp://news.gallaudet.edu/Daily_Digest/EventXite_-_Announcements/Gallaudet_participates_in_Google_program_to_caption_YouTube_videos.htmlNov 28 23:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Gallaudet participates in Google program to caption YouTube videos .::. Size~: 9.84 KBNov 28 23:31
schestowitzyuhong: is she still alive?Nov 28 23:31
yuhongGary? No, was dead in 1994.Nov 28 23:32
Ender2070fedora bans a lot of non free stuffNov 28 23:34
yuhongYep.Nov 28 23:34
schestowitzyuhong: no, his wifeNov 28 23:34
Ender2070rms has said fedora is very close to being considered free softwareNov 28 23:34
schestowitzBN still ticks at about quarter of a million hits per day, on averageNov 28 23:35
yuhongI am doing research to find the answer.Nov 28 23:35
schestowitzschestowitz.com never does more than 50kNov 28 23:35
schestowitzI guess that's why I feel motivated to post in BN and my personal blog is abandoned for meNov 28 23:35
yuhonghttp://legacy.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050215/news_1m15mcewen.htmlNov 28 23:36
schestowitzyuhong: Try the exhibits archivesNov 28 23:36
schestowitzHold on.....Nov 28 23:36
schestowitzhttp://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/fullstory/Nov 28 23:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Index of /DR/Info/fullstory .::. Size~: 2.75 KBNov 28 23:37
yuhongDug up this news article, answer yes he died in Jan 2005.Nov 28 23:37
schestowitzhttp://www.maxframe.com/DR/Info/Nov 28 23:37
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Index of /DR/Info .::. Size~: 0.72 KBNov 28 23:37
schestowitzThere are more.......Nov 28 23:37
yuhong"Dorothy McEwen, the former wife of the software pioneer who famously lost to Microsoft the chance to supply IBM with the operating system for its first personal computer, has died. She was 61. "Nov 28 23:37
schestowitzI can find them for youNov 28 23:37
schestowitz61 is youngNov 28 23:38
schestowitzMust be exhausting fighting the b0rgNov 28 23:38
yuhongI know.Nov 28 23:38
schestowitz"He [Bill Gates] is divisive. He is manipulative. He is a user. He has taken much from me and the industry." -Gary KildallNov 28 23:38
schestowitzYet many people believe Bill's PR agencies these daysNov 28 23:39
schestowitzThinking he's a wonderful manNov 28 23:39
yuhongI know.Nov 28 23:39
schestowitzYeah.. like NixonNov 28 23:39
schestowitzhttp://www.chicagoiplitigation.com/2009/11/articles/inequitable-conduct/internet-archive-website-is-admissible-evidence/Nov 28 23:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Internet Archive Website is Admissible Evidence : Chicago IP Litigation Blog .::. Size~: 40.52 KBNov 28 23:39
schestowitzhttp://www.smh.com.au/world/activist-jailed-for-digging-up-truth-in-quake-rubble-20091124-jhfi.htmlNov 28 23:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Activist jailed for digging up truth in quake rubble .::. Size~: 78.98 KBNov 28 23:40
schestowitzhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/25/AR2009112501961.htmlNov 28 23:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Smartbook Says Bloggers Can't Use The Word Smartbook Anymore. Smartbook. - washingtonpost.com .::. Size~: 92.98 KBNov 28 23:43
schestowitzGood. I always hated the wordNov 28 23:43
schestowitzI call it "sub-notebooks"Nov 28 23:43
schestowitzThat's what it isNov 28 23:43
schestowitznotebookNov 28 23:43
schestowitzMiniatureNov 28 23:43
schestowitzIn-between wrt to Nokie N900-like devicesNov 28 23:43
schestowitz*the NokiaNov 28 23:44
cubezzz"ultra portable" :)Nov 28 23:44
yuhongI read that Kildall was an idealist.Nov 28 23:44
cubezzzstill trying to re-flash c-spanNov 28 23:46
cubezzzer...Nov 28 23:46
cubezzzdeflash :)Nov 28 23:46
MinceRsub-notebooks also include devices that are way too expensive to be netbooks :>Nov 28 23:46
yuhongRemember all the talk about MS's own apps using undoc APIs?Nov 28 23:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Kroes stays, sort of http://www.nrc.nl/international/europe/article2422307.ece/Kroes_to_get_ICT_and_telecom_in_EU_CommissionNov 28 23:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: nrc.nl - International - Europe - Kroes to get 'ICT and telecom' in EU Commission .::. Size~: 33.48 KBNov 28 23:48
MinceRi doNov 28 23:48
MinceRbut even the documentation they do write and release tends to suckNov 28 23:49
cubezzzmost documentation sucksNov 28 23:49
yuhonghttp://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1426425&cid=29940189Nov 28 23:49
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot Comments | Microsoft's Lost Decade .::. Size~: 37.09 KBNov 28 23:49
yuhongRead this again.Nov 28 23:49
MinceRDR refused to license CP/M-86? citation needed.Nov 28 23:50
cubezzzthat is a bit murkyNov 28 23:50
cubezzzI doubt you will find much 1st hand informationNov 28 23:50
yuhongAnd remember all the talk about MS's own apps using undoc APIs as an advantage, and you will get my point.Nov 28 23:50
MinceRthat m$ doesn't provide the tools because they're greedy? :>Nov 28 23:51
yuhongNot my point.Nov 28 23:51
yuhongAnd yes, I know this is a bit murky.Nov 28 23:52
cubezzzit's kind of a shame about BeOS and Amiga, but at least we have LinuxNov 28 23:52
cubezzzand GNU :)Nov 28 23:52
cubezzzno one cares about CP/MNov 28 23:53
*MinceR realizes cnet was wasting his time up to this pointNov 28 23:53
MinceRthey're trying to sell me the idea that the newton was the first PDANov 28 23:54
cubezzzthere were a lot of little pocket computers Nov 28 23:54
yuhongPart of it I read was that Kildall's wife was pissed off at IBM for having DR sign an NDA that had many problems.Nov 28 23:54
cubezzzif you call it "pocket computer" there were many before NewtonNov 28 23:55
yuhongAnd unfortunately what helped was that Kildall was an idealist, while Gates was an aggressive businessman.Nov 28 23:55
cubezzz"What's in a Name?"Nov 28 23:55
cubezzzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket_computerNov 28 23:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Pocket computer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 35.61 KBNov 28 23:56
yuhongI said unfortunately, because Gates being an aggressive businessman helped MS became evil.Nov 28 23:56
cubezzzGates was evilNov 28 23:56
cubezzzI can't really describe him any other wayNov 28 23:57
yuhongI know, schestowitz mentioned it.Nov 28 23:57
cubezzzok, did you know Gates went dumpster diving to get the code for BASIC?Nov 28 23:57
MinceR"become"? m$ was founded that way.Nov 28 23:58
yuhongI know, and the GPL would have prevented exactly what Gates did.Nov 28 23:58
yuhongYep, they invented non-free software, and wrote the Open Letter to Hobbyists to stop software sharing.Nov 28 23:58
cubezzzand stole the computer time to write and 8080 emulator!Nov 28 23:59
yuhongYep.Nov 28 23:59

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