IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 8th, 2009

_goblin	and for the IRC lurkers, that was said in jest.	Dec 08 00:00
Delphiki	hehe	Dec 08 00:02
_goblin	I know how they like to trawl the IRC logs and quote out of context.....they will have difficulty now.....	Dec 08 00:03
schestowitz	_goblin: yeah, those Reptilians!	Dec 08 00:05
schestowitz	Ender told me they took those works out of context	Dec 08 00:05
schestowitz	I've seen other weird allegations, like falsely claiming that I blamed Microsoft for Nina Reiser's death or something	Dec 08 00:06
_goblin	still watching Survivor Series...oh...excellent...Ive been waiting for this...its DX now....and no not MS.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snW-5AHxYTA - its quite fitting as a vid/song about Linux users who have left MS products...	Dec 08 00:06
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/11/29/mischaracterising-boycott-novell/	Dec 08 00:07
schestowitz	_goblin: weird choice	Dec 08 00:08
schestowitz	Now the trolls will accuse you of being gay	Dec 08 00:08
phIRCe-local	Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB	Dec 08 00:08
_goblin	schestowitz: Probably....	Dec 08 00:08
_goblin	schestowitz: Unlike them though Im not homophobic so it doesn't bother me....	Dec 08 00:09
schestowitz	http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/05/us-trade-rep-weasels.html	Dec 08 00:09
phIRCe-local	Title: US Trade Rep weasels and squirms when cornered on an airplane and questioned about secret copyright treaty Boing Boing .::. Size~: 85.95 KB	Dec 08 00:09
schestowitz	http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/1916606,twilight-taping-arrest-movie-120209.article	Dec 08 00:09
phIRCe-local	Title: Woman arrested for trying to record 'Twilight' on digital camera :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Metro & Tri-State .::. Size~: 69.37 KB	Dec 08 00:09
schestowitz	Police state, omg omg omg omg omg !!! :-)	Dec 08 00:10
schestowitz	Where is the MAFIAA heading?	Dec 08 00:10
_goblin	schestowitz: there was one in canada a few months back...	Dec 08 00:10
_goblin	schestowitz: can't remember the film he was trying to record.	Dec 08 00:11
tessier	Anyone remember who/what was involved in that patent that Microsoft sold which a pro-FOSS group then picked up?	Dec 08 00:11
_goblin	schestowitz: talking of which ...... went to see "The Box" the other day.....quite a good film.....when did popcorn become so expensive?	Dec 08 00:12
tessier	I don't even remember what the patent was about...	Dec 08 00:12
tessier	_goblin: Everything at the theater is a huge rip-off. :( Even paying $10/person to see the film.	Dec 08 00:12
_goblin	I paid more than $10...	Dec 08 00:12
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/07/nasa_hack/	Dec 08 00:13
phIRCe-local	Title: Hacker scalps NASA-run websites • The Register .::. Size~: 27.03 KB	Dec 08 00:13
_goblin	it cost £28 in total for me and the wife + popcorn	Dec 08 00:13
schestowitz	tessier: Heise released a list of patents	Dec 08 00:13
schestowitz	http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Microsoft-patents-exhibited-by-Linux-Defenders-741367.html	Dec 08 00:14
phIRCe-local	Title: Microsoft patents exhibited by Linux Defenders - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 32.07 KB	Dec 08 00:14
schestowitz	I can't quite find it yet	Dec 08 00:14
schestowitz	That's not the list	Dec 08 00:14
schestowitz	Oh, here: http://www.h-online.com/open/features/Patently-Opaque-What-were-those-22-open-source-patents-816721.html	Dec 08 00:14
phIRCe-local	Title: Patently Opaque - What were those 22 "open source" patents? - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 36.14 KB	Dec 08 00:14
schestowitz	Ways to burn even more fossil fuel, for rich people: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091206/ts_alt_afp/usspacetourism_20091206170935	Dec 08 00:17
phIRCe-local	Title: Virgin Galactic readies maiden suborbital flight - Yahoo! News .::. Size~: 96.18 KB	Dec 08 00:17
tessier	Found the groklaw article about the 22 patents. Thanks. Just what I needed.	Dec 08 00:20
*ThistleWeb has quit ("Lost terminal")		Dec 08 00:21
schestowitz	tessier: has Microsoft sued you? :-p	Dec 08 00:22
schestowitz	http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/183887/google_will_release_etherpad_as_open_source.html	Dec 08 00:23
phIRCe-local	Title: Google Will Release EtherPad as Open Source - PC World Business Center .::. Size~: 61.45 KB	Dec 08 00:23
tessier	schestowitz: no	Dec 08 00:27
schestowitz	_goblin: could have included http://www.ghacks.net/2009/12/07/bitlocker-encryption-not-100-secure-after-all/ in http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/12/07/why-fear-the-cloud-microsoft-patches-more-windows-exploits/	Dec 08 00:30
phIRCe-local	Title: Bitlocker Encryption Not 100% Secure After All .::. Size~: 30.78 KB	Dec 08 00:30
phIRCe-local	Title: Why fear the cloud? Microsoft patches more Windows exploits. « OPEN BYTES cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 42.7 KB	Dec 08 00:30
_goblin	schestowitz: yeah...there was so much material....the few I included were merely to make the point, "if data security is your reason not for working in the cloud, why on earth do you use Windows?"	Dec 08 00:33
cubezzz	can anything be 100% secure?	Dec 08 00:33
cubezzz	anyways I spent a more than a few hours on win7 last night	Dec 08 00:33
cubezzz	but the customer is happy now	Dec 08 00:34
cubezzz	he can boot into Fedora 11 if he doesn't like win7	Dec 08 00:34
Delphiki	<--- Ender, yes they did take my reptilian jokes out of context	Dec 08 00:39
Delphiki	someone is being sued?	Dec 08 00:40
schestowitz	No, joke	Dec 08 00:53
Delphiki	ahh	Dec 08 00:54
Delphiki	http://lists.pcbsd.org/pipermail/testing/2009-December/003151.html	Dec 08 00:54
Delphiki	PC-BSD 8 Alpha Release	Dec 08 00:59
Delphiki	Includes something called "Life Preserver" which is a backup system based on top of SSH+Rsync	Dec 08 00:59
Delphiki	I wonder what license its under	Dec 08 00:59
Delphiki	i cant find it anywhere else	Dec 08 00:59
cubezzz	MIcrosoft is donating windows 7 to non-profits and libraries	Dec 08 01:08
cubezzz	anyways... who cares :)	Dec 08 01:14
cubezzz	I'm taking the positive route on my blog	Dec 08 01:16
cubezzz	it's just really disappointing to type in "linux blog" in google and the 2nd entry is the "Linux Hater's Blog"	Dec 08 01:16
Delphiki	lol	Dec 08 01:16
cubezzz	Microsoft is charing $26 for XP home on low-cost machines	Dec 08 01:20
cubezzz	charing	Dec 08 01:20
cubezzz	charging	Dec 08 01:21
cubezzz	...	Dec 08 01:21
*Delphiki has quit ("Leaving")		Dec 08 01:24
*ender2070 (n=ender207@bas1-toronto12-1128666469.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 08 01:24
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving")		Dec 08 01:28
cubezzz	http://alexandervanloon.nl/english/?p=292	Dec 08 01:32
phIRCe-local	Title: Getting a Windows refund from Acer in the Netherlands « Information Overload .::. Size~: 29.62 KB	Dec 08 01:32
schestowitz	cubezzz: you mean 'donating'	Dec 08 01:32
*schestowitz donates wishes from deep within the heart to everyone in this channel		Dec 08 01:32
cubezzz	I don't know the exact "deal"	Dec 08 01:32
schestowitz	It's a boiler room deal bwahaha!	Dec 08 01:33
schestowitz	Nobodsy knows the deal... that's what makes it so lucrative and irresistible.	Dec 08 01:33
schestowitz	Hmmmmmmm... turns out that Quincy Jones wanted to be a gangster	Dec 08 01:34
schestowitz	His speech at SXSW 2009 was shocking rather....	Dec 08 01:34
schestowitz	He got some machine guns	Dec 08 01:34
cubezzz	you see it is much better to buy Acer with Linux on it rather than to try to get a refund under the EULA	Dec 08 01:36
cubezzz	that's the strategy I will use from now on, either that or buy used	Dec 08 01:36
*lis` has quit ("baibai<3")		Dec 08 01:39
cubezzz	Old message from Matt Asay actually criticizing Microsoft and praising Novell!	Dec 08 01:43
ender2070	refunds under the EULA are a mixed bag	Dec 08 01:45
ender2070	you would only get what the oem pays	Dec 08 01:46
ender2070	and they get good deals	Dec 08 01:46
ender2070	asus offered someone $6	Dec 08 01:46
cubezzz	that's fine, as long as one can actually get the refund	Dec 08 01:46
cubezzz	and you get 100% what the OEM paid	Dec 08 01:46
ender2070	yeah but ms has been offering sick deals to oems	Dec 08 01:47
ender2070	they probably did sell it to asus for $6 a copy, because of their linux netbooks	Dec 08 01:47
cubezzz	hmmm, that is really low	Dec 08 01:47
ender2070	they're giving 7 away to schools	Dec 08 01:48
ender2070	$0	Dec 08 01:48
cubezzz	they must be feeling the pinch	Dec 08 01:48
ender2070	i got 7 for free simply by purchasing an intel cpu	Dec 08 01:48
schestowitz	And their Windows revenue is DOWN 40%	Dec 08 01:48
cubezzz	well, that's good isn't it? :)	Dec 08 01:49
schestowitz	Not for them it's not...	Dec 08 01:49
ender2070	anytime ms looses money im a happy camper	Dec 08 01:49
schestowitz	WIthout inertia they know windows is history	Dec 08 01:49
schestowitz	Allchin said so...	Dec 08 01:49
cubezzz	Allchin is gone	Dec 08 01:49
schestowitz	Something along the lines wrt APIs anyway	Dec 08 01:49
cubezzz	the old era is passing away	Dec 08 01:50
ender2070	evil has the seeds of its own destruction built into it	Dec 08 01:50
ender2070	they will die, slowly but surely	Dec 08 01:50
schestowitz	Naaa...	Dec 08 01:50
schestowitz	They'll still sell Zune in street corners	Dec 08 01:50
ender2070	yeah but at that point its obvious they are prostitutes	Dec 08 01:50
schestowitz	Oh, and Xbox... they'll have tables to pick up RROD'd units	Dec 08 01:50
cubezzz	they do sound awful don't they	Dec 08 01:51
cubezzz	it could be a massive collapse like netscape	Dec 08 01:51
ender2070	selling you a "good" or "fun" time in exchange for your morals	Dec 08 01:51
cubezzz	it's not fun though :)	Dec 08 01:51
cubezzz	where is the fun??	Dec 08 01:51
ender2070	some people think it is	Dec 08 01:51
ender2070	perhaps video games	Dec 08 01:52
cubezzz	there are linux game publishers...	Dec 08 01:52
ender2070	I have a quarantined box I use for winblows games	Dec 08 01:52
ender2070	there are linux game publishers, and I try to get those games for my main box	Dec 08 01:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] MAJORITY OF NEW HTC PHONES WILL RUN ANDROID http://tinyurl.com/yjackaq ... Poor old Microsoft! #windows #xp #vista #android #microsoft		Dec 08 01:53
ender2070	i love wesnoth, very awesome game	Dec 08 01:53
ender2070	maybe not 3d like most games but its awesome	Dec 08 01:53
phIRCe-local	maybe not 3d like most games but its awesome	Dec 08 01:53
cubezzz	???	Dec 08 01:53
ender2070	?	Dec 08 01:53
cubezzz	hahaha	Dec 08 01:54
cubezzz	what the heck	Dec 08 01:54
ender2070	www.wesnoth.org	Dec 08 01:54
cubezzz	our bot is developing AI	Dec 08 01:54
ender2070	hahahaha	Dec 08 01:55
ender2070	he stopped listening to us too	Dec 08 01:55
ender2070	notice he isnt linking?	Dec 08 01:55
ender2070	skynet!	Dec 08 01:55
cubezzz	http://cubeman.org	Dec 08 01:55
cubezzz	...	Dec 08 01:55
cubezzz	nope, not linking	Dec 08 01:55
ender2070	hes gotten out of control	Dec 08 01:57
ender2070	perhaps the reptilians co-opted him	Dec 08 01:57
schestowitz	ender2070: trmanco made a programming error	Dec 08 01:58
trmanco	what	Dec 08 01:58
schestowitz	Look up	Dec 08 01:59
trmanco	oh	Dec 08 01:59
trmanco	:\|	Dec 08 01:59
schestowitz	http://istheinternetdown.com	Dec 08 01:59
trmanco	I get it	Dec 08 01:59
phIRCe-local	Title: Not a web page! Aborting text/plain type .::. Size~: 0 KB	Dec 08 01:59
trmanco	lol	Dec 08 01:59
trmanco	it works	Dec 08 01:59
schestowitz	:-p	Dec 08 01:59
schestowitz	[01:53] <ender2070> maybe not 3d like most games but its awesome	Dec 08 01:59
schestowitz	[01:53] <phIRCe-local> maybe not 3d like most games but its awesome	Dec 08 01:59
trmanco	oh that	Dec 08 01:59
trmanco	it's random	Dec 08 02:00
trmanco	:\|	Dec 08 02:00
schestowitz	I can't tell what pattern triggers it...	Dec 08 02:00
schestowitz	LOL	Dec 08 02:00
schestowitz	rand();?	Dec 08 02:00
trmanco	dunno	Dec 08 02:00
schestowitz	Nothing is random in computers, other than atomic stuff	Dec 08 02:00
trmanco	I don't have the slightest clue what causes that :\|	Dec 08 02:00
ender2070	maybe not 3d like most games but its awesome	Dec 08 02:00
ender2070	hmm	Dec 08 02:00
trmanco	lol	Dec 08 02:00
ender2070	are you sure its not reptilians?	Dec 08 02:01
schestowitz	Hmmm.. now I'm hungry	Dec 08 02:03
*schestowitz goes cooking some reptilians		Dec 08 02:03
ender2070	I think i'm going to sap the energy out of people	Dec 08 02:04
*ender2070 slithers away		Dec 08 02:04
trmanco	lol	Dec 08 02:04
schestowitz	"maaa precious..."	Dec 08 02:04
trmanco	I'm still heartbroken btw...	Dec 08 02:04
schestowitz	We have here 23 hobbits, one goblin and a troll!	Dec 08 02:05
schestowitz	trmanco: we'll find you a new hobbit	Dec 08 02:05
cubezzz	ok, I get to be Tom Bombadil then	Dec 08 02:05
ender2070	Tom Bombadil!	Dec 08 02:06
trmanco	hobbit :\|	Dec 08 02:06
schestowitz	Or a heart surgery	Dec 08 02:06
trmanco	nah	Dec 08 02:06
trmanco	no way	Dec 08 02:07
trmanco	my heart still works out of the box, even though it's broken	Dec 08 02:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] How #Google Completes/Complements #GNU #Linux http://www.chromeosgeek.com/what-chrome-os-has-on-windows-that-linux-doesnt.html		Dec 08 02:11
phIRCe-local	Title: What Chrome OS has on Windows that Linux doesn't \| Chrome OS Geek .::. Size~: 26.36 KB	Dec 08 02:11
ender2070	Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow, Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow. None have ever caught him yet, for Tom, he is the master: His songs are stronger songs, and his feet are faster.	Dec 08 02:11
trmanco	who is the troll?	Dec 08 02:12
cubezzz	chrome is different from Linux then?	Dec 08 02:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Video Editing and Production with Free/Libre Software on #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/hbgt http://ur1.ca/hbgu		Dec 08 02:13
phIRCe-local	Title: My GNU/Linux » Subtitle Applications & Tutorials for GNU/Linux Rip, Edit, Embed Subs .::. Size~: 19.33 KB	Dec 08 02:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Windows Games on #GNU #Linux with #Crossover Games, #Wine http://ur1.ca/hbh1 http://ur1.ca/hbh3		Dec 08 02:16
phIRCe-local	Title: Raiden's Realm: Review: Crossover Games (Linux) 8.1.3 .::. Size~: 30.47 KB	Dec 08 02:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux #Phones Favoured by #HTC , Windows Thrown Aside http://ur1.ca/hbhk http://ur1.ca/hbhl		Dec 08 02:22
phIRCe-local	Title: Why Carriers Love Open-source/Openness .::. Size~: 89.12 KB	Dec 08 02:22
cubezzz	they do?	Dec 08 02:23
cubezzz	Bell seems to love microsoft, ditto for Rogers	Dec 08 02:23
cubezzz	except for the Freenets of course	Dec 08 02:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OLPC and Sugar Still Mature, Impact on Industry Evident http://ur1.ca/hbhq http://ur1.ca/hbhr		Dec 08 02:24
ender2070	rogers is in bed with yahoo	Dec 08 02:24
ender2070	oh, you're right I guess	Dec 08 02:24
phIRCe-local	Title: OLPC's Netbook Impact on Laptop PC Industry - OLPC News .::. Size~: 74.13 KB	Dec 08 02:24
ender2070	yahoo is in bed with ms	Dec 08 02:24
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Release of #PacketFence 1.8.6 is Announced http://www.net-security.org/secworld.php?id=8582		Dec 08 02:25
phIRCe-local	Title: Open source NAC system PacketFence 1.8.6 released .::. Size~: 20.51 KB	Dec 08 02:25
ender2070	are you talking phones?	Dec 08 02:25
cubezzz	you can make a deal with the devil but you always lose in the end	Dec 08 02:26
ender2070	i wouldnt mind a google android phone	Dec 08 02:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Good Year Ahead for #FreeSoftware http://ur1.ca/hbhv http://ur1.ca/hbhw		Dec 08 02:26
phIRCe-local	Title: What's Coming for Open Source in 2010 .::. Size~: 39.76 KB	Dec 08 02:26
ender2070	not entirely open but no phones are	Dec 08 02:26
phIRCe-local	Title: Lower Enterprise Storage Costs: Open Source — Datamation.com .::. Size~: 69.8 KB	Dec 08 02:26
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 08 02:32
schestowitz	cubezzz: Cell and Microsoft had deals	Dec 08 02:33
schestowitz	I wrote about it twice in BN	Dec 08 02:33
schestowitz	They broke it off earlier this year	Dec 08 02:33
schestowitz	/Cell/Bell/	Dec 08 02:34
cubezzz	I bet Bell uses microsoft servers, but let's see	Dec 08 02:34
*trmanco has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))		Dec 08 02:34
schestowitz	Ha	Dec 08 02:34
schestowitz	No way.	Dec 08 02:34
schestowitz	Nobody uses it...	Dec 08 02:34
ender2070	?	Dec 08 02:35
schestowitz	Not even partner of Microsoft	Dec 08 02:35
schestowitz	*partners	Dec 08 02:35
ender2070	uses what	Dec 08 02:35
cubezzz	checking	Dec 08 02:35
schestowitz	Just some dumb small companies with a dude who doesn't know about Linux	Dec 08 02:35
cubezzz	Microsoft web server	Dec 08 02:35
ender2070	ahh ms web server = lame	Dec 08 02:35
ender2070	gotta love how they used to license it based on site volume	Dec 08 02:35
schestowitz	Maybe they can afford more admins to watch and boot those boxes	Dec 08 02:36
cubezzz	schestowitz, it seems they use a mix of Microsoft and Linux	Dec 08 02:36
schestowitz	Linux admins can handle more server	Dec 08 02:36
schestowitz	*rs	Dec 08 02:36
cubezzz	redhat, and solaris too	Dec 08 02:36
ender2070	especially with ubuntu server + launchpad (if they want to be lazy)	Dec 08 02:36
cubezzz	it's a big sprawling system	Dec 08 02:36
schestowitz	cubezzz: so maybe they should buy SLES from Novell with two units of "peace of mind"	Dec 08 02:36
ender2070	does suse studio do 11.2 yet	Dec 08 02:37
schestowitz	ender2070: launchpad?	Dec 08 02:37
cubezzz	sympatico is largely doze	Dec 08 02:37
schestowitz	Canonical's admin s/w is not that	Dec 08 02:37
ender2070	schestowitz - yeah, doesnt it manage several servers for you	Dec 08 02:37
schestowitz	Landscape?	Dec 08 02:37
ender2070	landscape	Dec 08 02:37
cubezzz	don't be a dozer!	Dec 08 02:37
ender2070	yeah	Dec 08 02:37
schestowitz	DOzer	Dec 08 02:37
schestowitz	Bull dozer!	Dec 08 02:37
schestowitz	Bullmer is a dozer, too	Dec 08 02:37
schestowitz	"WIndows Windows WIndows!"	Dec 08 02:37
cubezzz	dozer = guy in high school who did too many drugs OR	Dec 08 02:38
cubezzz	a windows user (who may also be on drugs)	Dec 08 02:38
schestowitz	Yeah, drugs...	Dec 08 02:38
ender2070	reminds me of that sound board :)	Dec 08 02:38
ender2070	lol	Dec 08 02:38
schestowitz	“They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.”	Dec 08 02:38
schestowitz	--Pfeizer	Dec 08 02:38
schestowitz	Seriosly not, ParlyG does invest in those companies that stick to this business model	Dec 08 02:39
cubezzz	yeah you see I knew Microsoft was bad wayyy before this	Dec 08 02:39
cubezzz	before the 90's even started	Dec 08 02:39
cubezzz	Microsoft Canada's tech support, they were snarky	Dec 08 02:40
cubezzz	not friendly	Dec 08 02:40
ender2070	unfortunately I only got a computer in 1996, and didnt know of any other competitors besides OS/2 till 1999	Dec 08 02:40
ender2070	I remember doing searches on infoseek trying to find an alternative to windows	Dec 08 02:40
cubezzz	there was Unix System V in the 80's	Dec 08 02:40
cubezzz	and of course AmigaDOS	Dec 08 02:41
ender2070	none of my friends really knew much and my internet access was quite limited	Dec 08 02:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Palm to be Pressured to Comply with #GPL http://ur1.ca/hbiv http://ur1.ca/hbiw		Dec 08 02:41
phIRCe-local	Title: Palm Sued Over PDF Technology Dispute .::. Size~: 30.89 KB	Dec 08 02:41
cubezzz	ok, in the old days, for me that means mini-computer era	Dec 08 02:42
cubezzz	that was the only way you could get Unix	Dec 08 02:43
ender2070	yeah	Dec 08 02:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Programming Tip from Linus/Linux: Release Often http://www.webmonkey.com/blog/Forget_Perfection__Release_Your_App_to_the_World		Dec 08 02:43
phIRCe-local	Title: Forget Perfection Release Your App to the World - Webmonkey .::. Size~: 113.36 KB	Dec 08 02:43
cubezzz	then we had Altair, KIM-1, then the trinity	Dec 08 02:43
ender2070	I wish I got into this earlier	Dec 08 02:43
cubezzz	Radio Shack, Commodore And Apple	Dec 08 02:43
ender2070	like in 1996 when I got a computer	Dec 08 02:43
cubezzz	ha, I was making web pages then :)	Dec 08 02:43
ender2070	dialup bbs's had no mention of anything other than OS/2 or DOS	Dec 08 02:43
ender2070	at least in my area	Dec 08 02:44
cubezzz	no, the Universities were using Sun4's, ftp, gopher and the like	Dec 08 02:44
cubezzz	dialup BBs was poor man's "internet"	Dec 08 02:44
ender2070	they were pretty good	Dec 08 02:44
ender2070	thats where I learned about hacker culture	Dec 08 02:44
cubezzz	ummm, yeah maybe, but....	Dec 08 02:45
*_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat")		Dec 08 02:45
cubezzz	nothing compared to U of Waterloo at the same time	Dec 08 02:45
cubezzz	It was Academia only mostly	Dec 08 02:45
ender2070	U of T had its own unix too if im not mistaken	Dec 08 02:45
ender2070	a research os	Dec 08 02:45
cubezzz	yes, they had a Cray for a while too	Dec 08 02:46
cubezzz	I watched it getting installed	Dec 08 02:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Get on More People's Nerves http://ur1.ca/hbj2 http://ur1.ca/hbj3		Dec 08 02:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ACTA Conspirator Sort of Interrogated http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/05/us-trade-rep-weasels.html #whitecollarcrime		Dec 08 02:46
ender2070	my friend got a copy of SCO Xenix	Dec 08 02:46
phIRCe-local	Title: Artists To National Gallery Of Canada: 'Pay Us Again And Again And Again!' \| Techdirt .::. Size~: 54.23 KB	Dec 08 02:46
ender2070	original box set	Dec 08 02:46
phIRCe-local	Title: SOCAN Wants To Charge Buskers Performance Fees \| Techdirt .::. Size~: 52.75 KB	Dec 08 02:46
ender2070	its like 50 pounds worth of disks	Dec 08 02:46
phIRCe-local	Title: US Trade Rep weasels and squirms when cornered on an airplane and questioned about secret copyright treaty Boing Boing .::. Size~: 85.89 KB	Dec 08 02:46
phIRCe-local	my friend got a copy of SCO Xenix	Dec 08 02:46
phIRCe-local	original box set	Dec 08 02:46
phIRCe-local	its like 50 pounds worth of disks	Dec 08 02:46
ender2070	lol	Dec 08 02:46
cubezzz	ender2070, I have Xenix notes still, but we switched to Unix System V soon after	Dec 08 02:47
ender2070	he didnt get this till like 2003 tho	Dec 08 02:47
ender2070	he just grabbed it for his collection	Dec 08 02:47
cubezzz	1988-1989 era	Dec 08 02:47
ender2070	yeah something like that, it was used	Dec 08 02:48
ender2070	he didnt even have anything he could try it out on for fun	Dec 08 02:48
cubezzz	no, not something like that, I have the dates right here :)	Dec 08 02:48
cubezzz	I lived it	Dec 08 02:48
ender2070	:)	Dec 08 02:48
cubezzz	I wouldn't want to go back to that, we didn't have all the source code for the OS	Dec 08 02:49
cubezzz	not FOSS at all	Dec 08 02:49
ender2070	I started with DOS 6.22/Win 3.1, then 3.11 for workgroups, then win95/98/2K then Linux :)	Dec 08 02:49
ender2070	Redhat 5.2 was my first linux	Dec 08 02:49
cubezzz	Darkstar 0.9X for me	Dec 08 02:50
ender2070	very old	Dec 08 02:50
ender2070	lol	Dec 08 02:50
cubezzz	then the back slide back into Microsoft unfortunately	Dec 08 02:50
cubezzz	ender2070, I still program with ncurses to this day	Dec 08 02:50
cubezzz	Amiga died, and in 1995 Windows 95 dominated	Dec 08 02:51
cubezzz	one year later from Commodore's death	Dec 08 02:51
cubezzz	some day I'll post my Windows 2.0 criticisms to the net	Dec 08 02:52
cubezzz	but here is the interesting thing...	Dec 08 02:52
cubezzz	the Unix guys were real snobs back then, so for me it wasn't easy to get into Unix	Dec 08 02:52
cubezzz	fast forward to now, the Linux guys are relatively friendly	Dec 08 02:53
cubezzz	to go into Amiga now, you would have to be very hard core	Dec 08 02:53
cubezzz	a truly open system has yet to hit the stores	Dec 08 02:55
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ender2070	its not GNU\Hard	Dec 08 02:59
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schestowitz	gn	Dec 08 02:59
ender2070	we got hurd	Dec 08 02:59
ender2070	ty	Dec 08 02:59
ender2070	gn	Dec 08 02:59
schestowitz	gnu turd	Dec 08 02:59
ender2070	it is now but i'd like to see it progress	Dec 08 02:59
cubezzz	schestowitz, we got some nasties last night	Dec 08 03:00
cubezzz	very bad trolls, but I was polite	Dec 08 03:00
ender2070	linsux guys	Dec 08 03:01
cubezzz	nite	Dec 08 03:02
ender2070	nite	Dec 08 03:05
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cubezzz	if any US people here use a Freenet let me know	Dec 08 04:05
cubezzz	I'm curious to know which freenets are still operating	Dec 08 04:05
sebsebseb	interesting read	Dec 08 04:06
sebsebseb	http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/blog-entry/browser-shares-reveal-true-benefits-open-source	Dec 08 04:06
phIRCe-local	Title: Browser Shares Reveal True Benefits of Open Source \| Linux Developer Network .::. Size~: 24.4 KB	Dec 08 04:06
cubezzz	yes, that is significant	Dec 08 04:29
cubezzz	one third of the market is using browsers that follow open standards	Dec 08 04:29
ender2070	the rest are running ie6 on xp	Dec 08 04:30
ender2070	lol	Dec 08 04:30
cubezzz	let me check my own server numbers	Dec 08 04:30
ender2070	the ie numbers should be ie6	Dec 08 04:31
ender2070	7 and 8 are mixed bags	Dec 08 04:31
cubezzz	let's say 1/3 of the market is non microsoft	Dec 08 04:31
cubezzz	I see a lot of NT 5.1 what is that?	Dec 08 04:33
cubezzz	XP I think	Dec 08 04:33
cubezzz	and a small amount of NT 6.0	Dec 08 04:34
ender2070	nt 5.1 is xp	Dec 08 04:42
ender2070	6 is vista	Dec 08 04:42
ender2070	6.1 is 7	Dec 08 04:43
ender2070	figure that one out, lol	Dec 08 04:43
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Linux is 32% of netbooks, #Microsoft is dying http://ur1.ca/f5pt		Dec 08 04:46
phIRCe-local	Title: Linux's share of netbooks surging, not sagging, says analyst .::. Size~: 138.88 KB	Dec 08 04:46
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Will_	@schestowitz: I have another suggestion for the gnome-do alternatives: avant window navagator. It's written in C.	Dec 08 05:03
Will_	for the wiki	Dec 08 05:04
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DaemonFC	http://popup.lala.com/popup/1657606168297489802	Dec 08 05:06
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ender2070	lol there are wackier people than David Icke	Dec 08 05:08
ender2070	hey mrruckspin!	Dec 08 05:08
ender2070	What did the five fingers say to the face?	Dec 08 05:08
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ender2070	*SLAP*	Dec 08 05:09
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MinceR	lol	Dec 08 06:40
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] DW/LJ: Until the razor cuts. http://reddragdiva.dreamwidth.org/22596.html http://reddragdiva.livejournal.com/536463.html		Dec 08 08:57
phIRCe-local	Title: reddragdiva \| Until the razor cuts. .::. Size~: 27.9 KB	Dec 08 08:57
phIRCe-local	Title: reddragdiva: Until the razor cuts. .::. Size~: 19.02 KB	Dec 08 08:57
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Seagate introduces their own SSD http://ur1.ca/hc1f		Dec 08 09:06
phIRCe-local	Title: Seagate Pulsar is the Drive Maker's First Solid-State Drive - Seagate pulsar - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 66.65 KB	Dec 08 09:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Horns: "You need a wide acceptance in all quarters of the Industry in order to push [UPLS] into reality": http://i5.be/Xv		Dec 08 09:19
phIRCe-local	Title: A Few Comments On The EU Council's Conclusions On An Enhanced Patent System in Europe - BLOG@IPJUR.COM .::. Size~: 51.3 KB	Dec 08 09:19
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] An absolutely beautiful pair of time lapse movies of the Alps http://ur1.ca/hc27 http://ur1.ca/hc28		Dec 08 09:26
phIRCe-local	Title: Timelapse movie: The Alps -- part I on Vimeo .::. Size~: 106.32 KB	Dec 08 09:26
phIRCe-local	Title: Timelapse movie: The Alps -- part II (night) on Vimeo .::. Size~: 106.78 KB	Dec 08 09:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Online shopping? Useless Amazon...Won't be using that service again #fail		Dec 08 09:36
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @sunil_abraham RT @Andrew_Rens: New blog post: A Treaty for the Visually Impaired http://tr.im/GZVW		Dec 08 10:24
phIRCe-local	Title: ex Africa semper aliquid novi » Blog Archive » A Treaty for the Visually Impaired .::. Size~: 27.79 KB	Dec 08 10:24
MinceR	http://th01.deviantart.com/fs12/300W/i/2006/261/d/1/We_free_the_shit_out_of_you_by_Pencilshade.png	Dec 08 10:26
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @kgerloff: Free Software groups criticise #EIFv2 draft - !FSFE 's analysis http://ur1.ca/gmkg on #OSOR http://ur1.ca/gxef !gnu !fsfs'		Dec 08 10:27
phIRCe-local	Title: FSFE - EIFv2: Tracking the loss of interoperability .::. Size~: 23.41 KB	Dec 08 10:27
phIRCe-local	Title: Leaked EIF draft critisiced by advocacy groups — .::. Size~: 30.27 KB	Dec 08 10:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Yet Another Nobel Prize Winner Says That Intellectual Property Is Harming Science http://tr.im/GZXb		Dec 08 10:28
phIRCe-local	Title: Yet Another Nobel Prize Winner Says That Intellectual Property Is Harming Science \| Techdirt .::. Size~: 133.32 KB	Dec 08 10:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Gets Its Way in the European #Commission http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/08/eu-caving-in-to-microsoft/ #swpat #eu		Dec 08 10:29
phIRCe-local	Title: Microsoft Gets Its Way in the European Commission \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 103.45 KB	Dec 08 10:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @sunil_abraham Call for Comments for Paper on Copyright Law and the Print Impaired: http://bit.ly/8xyisT [ed]		Dec 08 10:33
phIRCe-local	Title: Call for Comments for Paper on Copyright Law and the Print Impaired — Centre for Internet and Society .::. Size~: 36.48 KB	Dec 08 10:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @jackerhack: The Economist examines the long tail theory and finds it lacking. With data. http://is.gd/5dNab		Dec 08 10:34
phIRCe-local	Title: Media: A world of hits \| The Economist .::. Size~: 72.4 KB	Dec 08 10:34
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @sunil_abraham: Time for @chetan_bhagat to learn from @paulocoelho. http://bit.ly/3EXw73 #chethanblocks		Dec 08 10:36
phIRCe-local	Title: Pirate Coelho/ help your community « Paulo Coelhos Blog .::. Size~: 73.17 KB	Dec 08 10:36
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Proof #Republicans are complete and absolute #douchebags http://ur1.ca/hc6d		Dec 08 10:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ODF Wins in #Slovakia , Maybe More Countries http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/08/odf-progress-among-developers/		Dec 08 10:59
phIRCe-local	Title: ODF Wins in Slovakia, Maybe More Countries \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 98.73 KB	Dec 08 10:59
schestowitz	http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-kaufman/google-books-and-kindles_b_380536.html	Dec 08 11:02
phIRCe-local	Title: Alan Kaufman: Google Books And Kindles: A Concentration Camp Of Ideas .::. Size~: 209.33 KB	Dec 08 11:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Letter to Chief Minister of Kerala on IT Policy Violation http://tr.im/H07i		Dec 08 11:08
phIRCe-local	Title: Letter to Chief Minister of Kerala on IT Policy Violation - FOSS Community, India .::. Size~: 15.2 KB	Dec 08 11:08
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schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/07/schmidt_on_privacy/	Dec 08 11:17
phIRCe-local	Title: Google chief: Only miscreants worry about net privacy • The Register .::. Size~: 31.7 KB	Dec 08 11:17
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schestowitz	http://www.internetnews.com/government/article.php/3851051	Dec 08 11:32
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schestowitz	The citizens are the enemy	Dec 08 11:32
schestowitz	They are busy tracking people's thoughts under the excuse of "terrorism'	Dec 08 11:32
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schestowitz	Bad news to OpenDNS...	Dec 08 11:34
schestowitz	http://www.theage.com.au/national/secret-files-on-protesters-given-to-desal-consortium-20091204-kb29.html	Dec 08 11:37
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schestowitz	"With over 20 million installations, Fedora is among the most world's popular Linux distributions. While that kind of success has been due to a rapid base of supporters, the distro originally launched by Red Hat as a community Linux project is having to bridge the divide between targeting a mass audience and keeping hardcore enthusiasts in the fold."	Dec 08 11:57
schestowitz	http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/6922/1/	Dec 08 11:57
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oiaohm	http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8400222.stm Ok ouch	Dec 08 12:05
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oiaohm	http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/12/pentagon-zombie-pigs-first-then-hibernating-gis/	Dec 08 12:14
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schestowitz	So turbulent on freenode today...	Dec 08 12:15
schestowitz	http://www.maximumpc.com/article/columns/murphys_law_lets_all_switch_google_dns_oh_wait http://radoff.com/blog/2009/12/07/google-dns-benchmarking-and-rationale/	Dec 08 12:15
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schestowitz	<oiaohm> Hmm any idea what is going on with freenode ?	Dec 08 12:18
schestowitz	Only that it's messy	Dec 08 12:19
schestowitz	In all channels, no message yet from freenode staff	Dec 08 12:19
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schestowitz	It's interesting that Fedora claims 20 million or more installations. I reckon a lot in industry use it quietly... Ubuntu seems popular among home users, not NASA for example.	Dec 08 12:33
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kecskebak	I really liked Fedora 12, until I found that Inkscape's text tool was broken in it!	Dec 08 12:35
kecskebak	The nouveau drivers are really good.	Dec 08 12:35
MinceR	even in 3d?	Dec 08 12:36
oiaohm	I know a lot who depend on centos a blood releation kecskebak	Dec 08 12:36
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kecskebak	Didn't try that, but 2D performance was better than the other free driver I tried	Dec 08 12:36
oiaohm	MinceR: as yet nouveaeu still suxs at 3d.	Dec 08 12:36
oiaohm	But it is one of the most stable 2d drivers you can use.	Dec 08 12:36
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kecskebak	I use Inkscape and The GIMP pretty much most of the time	Dec 08 12:37
MinceR	and how do they perform in desktop compositing?	Dec 08 12:37
kecskebak	No desktop effects in Fedora 12	Dec 08 12:37
kecskebak	If you use nouveau	Dec 08 12:37
MinceR	pft	Dec 08 12:38
kecskebak	But I didn't get bits of window left behind in Inkscape, which happens regularly with the other free driver	Dec 08 12:38
kecskebak	And it seemed faster too	Dec 08 12:38
kecskebak	I also tried KDE. I managed to last three days before I went back to GNOME. I thought KDE was impressive, but gimmicky.	Dec 08 12:40
kecskebak	But that's purely my personality - it's no fault of KDE.	Dec 08 12:40
MinceR	i've found kde to be both more usable and more reliable than gnome	Dec 08 12:41
MinceR	especially with desktop compositing	Dec 08 12:41
MinceR	kwin is a lot less buggy than compiz	Dec 08 12:41
kecskebak	It's entirely a personality thing I think - I'm glad there are both. I can almost predict which of my friends would prefer one or the other.	Dec 08 12:41
MinceR	:)	Dec 08 12:41
MinceR	i'm glad there are both, too	Dec 08 12:42
kecskebak	If GNOME flirts any more with Mono I'll be a KDE user full time :)	Dec 08 12:42
MinceR	:)	Dec 08 12:42
MinceR	have you tried XFCE?	Dec 08 12:42
kecskebak	No, but I might put it on my wife's computer, which is quite elderly.	Dec 08 12:42
kecskebak	It struggles a tiny bit with GNOME	Dec 08 12:43
MinceR	i consider it "gnome lite"	Dec 08 12:43
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*schestowitz enjoys watching Dimbleby slammed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_3qFpi4ooU&feature=related		Dec 08 12:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Children Love #GNU #Linux , Find It Intuitive http://ur1.ca/hcgz http://ur1.ca/hch0		Dec 08 13:45
phIRCe-local	Title: The Open Sourcerer » Its definitely working& .::. Size~: 46.58 KB	Dec 08 13:45
phIRCe-local	Title: Tux Typing for kids- A Tuxy alternative to Mavis Beacon. \| GHABUNTU .::. Size~: 90.46 KB	Dec 08 13:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More #GNU #Linux Reaches System z System #Mainframe Servers http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-12-07-029-35-PR-HE-SV		Dec 08 13:48
phIRCe-local	Title: Linux Today - IBM Introduces New Linux Servers for the System z Mainframe .::. Size~: 83.96 KB	Dec 08 13:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] attending #bisexualunderground this evening. anyone else? http://www.bisexualunderground.org/		Dec 08 13:50
phIRCe-local	Title: The Bisexual Underground .::. Size~: 3.63 KB	Dec 08 13:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Two #Gentoo Derivatives Reviewed and Introduced http://ur1.ca/hchc http://ur1.ca/hchd (Pentoo and Exherbo)		Dec 08 13:51
phIRCe-local	Title: Pentoo Linux for Penetration Testing - Review and Commentary - Linux Critic .::. Size~: 36.83 KB	Dec 08 13:51
phIRCe-local	Title: Exherbo Install Process « Living With Penguins .::. Size~: 19.43 KB	Dec 08 13:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] If #Fedora Reports 20 Million Installations of Fedora #GNU #Linux , How Many in Total? http://ur1.ca/hchn		Dec 08 13:55
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Boxee Probably Ships #GNU #Linux Boxes http://mashable.com/2009/12/07/boxee-box-dlink/		Dec 08 13:57
phIRCe-local	Title: Boxee and D-Link Partner For Boxee Box .::. Size~: 80.39 KB	Dec 08 13:57
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KDE #Plasma on Sub-notebooks: a Preview http://maketecheasier.com/kde-plasma-netbook-preview/2009/12/07 #kde4 #gnu #linux		Dec 08 13:59
phIRCe-local	Title: KDE Plasma Netbook Preview Make Tech Easier .::. Size~: 41.24 KB	Dec 08 13:59
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #CrunchPad is Back! (Under New Name) http://news.cnet.com/8301-19882_3-10410393-250.html		Dec 08 14:00
phIRCe-local	Title: CrunchPad reborn as JooJoo \| Rafe's Radar - CNET News .::. Size~: 101.77 KB	Dec 08 14:00
MinceR	Ju-Ju Zombie	Dec 08 14:00
schestowitz	Check out the photo	Dec 08 14:03
MinceR	lol	Dec 08 14:04
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Taint #SQL Queries http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1840847/can-someone-copyright-an-sql-query		Dec 08 14:08
phIRCe-local	Title: Can someone copyright a SQL query? - Stack Overflow .::. Size~: 143.67 KB	Dec 08 14:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenOffice .org Market Share Estimated http://ur1.ca/hcj3		Dec 08 14:13
phIRCe-local	Title: Question of the Day: Whats the real market share of OpenOffice.org ? \| Moved by Freedom - Powered by Standards .::. Size~: 27.15 KB	Dec 08 14:13
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OpenBSD Progresses Fast, #pfSense Built on #FreeBSD http://ur1.ca/hcj9 http://ur1.ca/hcja		Dec 08 14:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] US #Government Does Not Keep Promise on #Openness http://ur1.ca/hcje http://ur1.ca/hcjf		Dec 08 14:16
phIRCe-local	Title: Promises, promises: A closed meeting on openness - Yahoo! News .::. Size~: 113.08 KB	Dec 08 14:16
phIRCe-local	Title: Irony: Federal Government Workshop On Openness... Closed To The Public \| Techdirt .::. Size~: 29.86 KB	Dec 08 14:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ACTA Conspirator Says ACTA Too Nasty to be Seen Publicly http://keionline.org/node/706		Dec 08 14:17
phIRCe-local	Title: Ambassador Kirk: People would be “walking away from the table” if the ACTA text is made public \| Knowledge Ecology International .::. Size~: 37.22 KB	Dec 08 14:17
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Government in #Australia Turns to State Police http://ur1.ca/hcjm #policestate		Dec 08 14:19
phIRCe-local	Title: Secret files on protesters given to desal consortium .::. Size~: 84.04 KB	Dec 08 14:19
schestowitz	bbl	Dec 08 14:21
oiaohm	http://www.carnegiecorp.com.au/ <<< When you know this tech exists why is a desilintation plant being built needing power lines?	Dec 08 14:25
phIRCe-local	Title: Carnegie Wave Energy .::. Size~: 9.58 KB	Dec 08 14:25
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Bertus	hi	Dec 08 14:29
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] MUST WATCH MUST WATCH MUST WATCH!!! xD -- KDE SC 4.4 Preview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEuapaLJF8g		Dec 08 14:33
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trmanco	looks promising	Dec 08 14:46
Omar87	trmanco: yeah! :D	Dec 08 15:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] MUST WATCH MUST WATCH MUST WATCH Part 2!! xD -- KDE SC 4.4 Preview (Part II) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrcIUkQnYjk		Dec 08 15:06
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DaemonFC	http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20091208/LOCAL03/312089930/1002/LOCAL	Dec 08 15:33
phIRCe-local	Title: Ex_officer gets 1 year for fondling teen \| The Journal Gazette, Fort Wayne, Ind. .::. Size~: 30.32 KB	Dec 08 15:33
DaemonFC	of course they go lighter on a police officer	Dec 08 15:34
DaemonFC	if it was anyone else, they would have gotten no less than five years	Dec 08 15:34
DaemonFC	Indiana also has half your sentence suspended for good behavior, so he'll be home in 6 months	Dec 08 15:35
DaemonFC	I've always kind of wondered though why you can conceivably get a year for child molestation, but if they find a nude image of an underage teenager on your computer, you get 20 years	Dec 08 15:36
ender2070	the 20 million fedora users are probably those who also agreed to submit their installation profile	Dec 08 15:52
kecskebak	They do seem very keen on you doing that - when you try clicking No you get another dialog box offering you the chance to "reconsider"...	Dec 08 15:53
ender2070	I've sent one in	Dec 08 15:55
ender2070	the rest i cancel	Dec 08 15:55
MinceR	DaemonFC: for the same reason you get a harsher sentence for file sharing than murder	Dec 08 15:56
DaemonFC	MinceR: There's really no jail sentence unless you're selling copies that you made	Dec 08 15:57
DaemonFC	otherwise they can sue you and that's really not that bad	Dec 08 15:57
DaemonFC	they may "win 20 million dollars" from you, and that makes impressive headlines	Dec 08 15:57
DaemonFC	but you can file bankruptcy immediately and pay none of it	Dec 08 15:58
MinceR	and it makes your impressively broke and homeless	Dec 08 15:58
DaemonFC	MinceR: Nope	Dec 08 15:58
DaemonFC	Chapter 13 bankruptcy, you actually keep most of your assets	Dec 08 15:58
MinceR	what do i not keep?	Dec 08 15:58
DaemonFC	like, they can't take your house, and you can keep your car provided it's not some luxury Mercedes or something	Dec 08 15:58
DaemonFC	they can't take your retirement in bankruptcy	Dec 08 15:59
DaemonFC	they obviously can't take your savings bonds if you don't tell them about them	Dec 08 15:59
DaemonFC	most often, in a debt that size, you don't end up paying them anything at all	Dec 08 15:59
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DaemonFC	cause the court also can't take money you have unless it's way more than you need to live on	Dec 08 16:00
DaemonFC	so if the RIAA sued me, I would file Chapter 13 and they wouldn't get anything	Dec 08 16:00
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DaemonFC	MinceR: "Winning" your case against someone on Social Security income is already a pretty meaningless victory	Dec 08 16:01
MinceR	not if you can set a precedent	Dec 08 16:02
MinceR	you can also humiliate them	Dec 08 16:02
DaemonFC	they're already broke and federal law says they can't touch your SSI/SSDI money	Dec 08 16:02
DaemonFC	I probably wouldn't even file bankruptcy, I don't have anything they can legally take	Dec 08 16:02
MinceR	what about computers and appliances?	Dec 08 16:03
DaemonFC	MinceR: What about them?	Dec 08 16:03
MinceR	can't they take those?	Dec 08 16:03
DaemonFC	they can't take your appliances	Dec 08 16:03
DaemonFC	I would probably hide the on-hand valuables at my mother's house if I thought they were in danger of being taken	Dec 08 16:04
DaemonFC	MinceR: The real evil is credit card companies (reducing) your debt to them	Dec 08 16:07
MinceR	how do they work?	Dec 08 16:07
DaemonFC	cause then the difference is treated as taxable income by the IRS, which can't be discharged in bankruptcy	Dec 08 16:07
DaemonFC	so if I owe the credit card company $10,000 and they negotiate with me and I agree to pay $2,000, the IRS says the company gave me $8,000	Dec 08 16:08
DaemonFC	then they tax that at like 12% (cause it would be my only taxable income that year so I'd be in a "low" tax bracket"	Dec 08 16:09
DaemonFC	MinceR: So all of a sudden I owe the IRS $960 as well	Dec 08 16:09
DaemonFC	the more "forgiven" debt, the more taxes you owe	Dec 08 16:10
MinceR	ic	Dec 08 16:10
DaemonFC	I could have files bankruptcy and wiped out the entire $10,000, but instead I negotiated with the card company and owe them $2,000 and the IRS $960 now	Dec 08 16:11
DaemonFC	bad deal	Dec 08 16:11
DaemonFC	*filed	Dec 08 16:11
DaemonFC	MinceR: I already am in $6,000 debt over medical expenses	Dec 08 16:12
DaemonFC	I haven't filed bankruptcy because they can't legally seize my money anyway	Dec 08 16:12
MinceR	would you have ended up with other consequences if you had filed bankruptcy?	Dec 08 16:12
DaemonFC	so why pay the $1,000 to file?	Dec 08 16:12
DaemonFC	MinceR: It's on your credit report for 7 years	Dec 08 16:12
DaemonFC	but if you're in that deep, it may actually improve your credit to file bankruptcy, even while it's on the report	Dec 08 16:13
MinceR	lol	Dec 08 16:13
DaemonFC	cause now my credit score is bad, but I don't have any debt	Dec 08 16:13
DaemonFC	as opposed to bad credit and a $10,000 debt	Dec 08 16:13
DaemonFC	Chapter 13 is the one to go for MinceR , if you're sure that the court trustee will say you can't pay the debt at all	Dec 08 16:14
DaemonFC	Chapter 7 is a partial bankruptcy which only forgives some bills	Dec 08 16:15
DaemonFC	Chapter 11 is just a repayment plan, you still owe everything, but the court sets up a payment plan and keeps them from suing you while you're paying	Dec 08 16:15
MinceR	so you still need to make sure the court trustee will think you can't pay the debt	Dec 08 16:15
DaemonFC	MinceR: Not hard to do when you've been sued for $20 million	Dec 08 16:16
MinceR	:)	Dec 08 16:16
DaemonFC	if they all hurt you just as bad, you might as well just pull out the big nuke and go after all your bills	Dec 08 16:17
DaemonFC	if you qualify for Chapter 13 that is	Dec 08 16:17
DaemonFC	if you do that, your bills are batched together to make a total debt	Dec 08 16:18
DaemonFC	so if I owe $6,000 to the hospital, $10,000 to the credit card company, and I'm behind 3 payments on my car and it's going to be repossessed, I file chapter 13	Dec 08 16:18
DaemonFC	it all goes away and I own the car outright	Dec 08 16:18
DaemonFC	provided I can hide it until the bankruptcy is complete :)	Dec 08 16:19
MinceR	lol	Dec 08 16:19
DaemonFC	those repo people can take it until the bankruptcy case it final	Dec 08 16:19
DaemonFC	MinceR: That's why I tell people not to get a car with OnStar or Microsoft Sync	Dec 08 16:20
DaemonFC	helps the repo people track down the car via GPS	Dec 08 16:20
MinceR	ic	Dec 08 16:21
DaemonFC	they can also disable it	Dec 08 16:21
MinceR	well, that only matters if you get the car on a loan payment, doesn't it?	Dec 08 16:21
DaemonFC	so you can't unlock it or start the engine	Dec 08 16:21
DaemonFC	MinceR: Yeah, if you finance it and miss 1 payment, they can legally repo it	Dec 08 16:21
DaemonFC	they usually don't until you miss 3-4	Dec 08 16:22
DaemonFC	they reaqlly don't want your car, they want to work something out to where you can pay them	Dec 08 16:22
DaemonFC	MinceR: The best thing to do if you're behind on your payments and may get a repo is file bankruptcy and find someone with a locked garage to keep it in until the bankruptcy is finished	Dec 08 16:24
DaemonFC	keep it in there, don't drive it, bum a ride to work	Dec 08 16:24
DaemonFC	someone that's not listed as a relative, credit reference, etc.	Dec 08 16:25
DaemonFC	the repo people go to all those places first	Dec 08 16:25
DaemonFC	MinceR: Technically, I've been a repossession agent, not cars though, stuff like furniture and televisions and stuff	Dec 08 16:26
MinceR	ic	Dec 08 16:26
DaemonFC	those are hard enough to get back sometimes	Dec 08 16:26
DaemonFC	we paid a police officer to go persuade people to give it back	Dec 08 16:26
DaemonFC	while he was off duty	Dec 08 16:27
MinceR	did he appear as a police officer or as a civilian?	Dec 08 16:27
MinceR	did he lie?	Dec 08 16:27
DaemonFC	he was in uniform when he went out to their house	Dec 08 16:27
DaemonFC	no	Dec 08 16:27
DaemonFC	he stated the facts and let them draw their own conclusions	Dec 08 16:27
MinceR	ic	Dec 08 16:28
DaemonFC	you see a cop at the door, your first thought is that you may be in some legal trouble	Dec 08 16:28
DaemonFC	so they panicked and gave it back, every time	Dec 08 16:28
MinceR	what were the facts? from what you've said it follows that it's in their best interests to hide what they can	Dec 08 16:28
MinceR	unless it's something like 'if we find it at a relative, you're hosed'	Dec 08 16:28
DaemonFC	MinceR: That they're behind on their payments, that if they continue to keep the merchandise past a certain point they'll be legally in possession of stolen property	Dec 08 16:29
DaemonFC	if they don't give it back, the charge can carry up to 1 year in jail and $5,000 in fines	Dec 08 16:29
DaemonFC	MinceR: Rental-Purchase contract not really financing so much	Dec 08 16:29
DaemonFC	so we kept ownership while they were paying on it	Dec 08 16:30
MinceR	ic	Dec 08 16:30
DaemonFC	the contract stated that it was our property until all payments were made and if they were unable to pay, they were required to give it back at the end of the last paid week	Dec 08 16:31
MinceR	so if you filed bankruptcy as described above, you'd be legally in possession of stolen property? what would the repercussions be?	Dec 08 16:31
MinceR	or is that specific to the contract?	Dec 08 16:31
DaemonFC	Class A Misdemeanor, 1 year/$5,000	Dec 08 16:31
DaemonFC	that's a criminal case at that point	Dec 08 16:31
DaemonFC	the judge has some room to adjust the sentence though	Dec 08 16:32
DaemonFC	he could say 6 months, with 3 months of that suspended, and 9 months of probation, and $1,000 fine	Dec 08 16:32
DaemonFC	and of course if you're on probation, you have to pay $500 just to be on it	Dec 08 16:32
DaemonFC	and if they decide to drug test you, you pay for that too	Dec 08 16:33
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DaemonFC	and if you fail a drug test or violate the probation, all your remaining probation time and any suspended sentence is now jail time	Dec 08 16:33
DaemonFC	it's not worth that to try and hang onto the TV or the couch	Dec 08 16:34
DaemonFC	:P	Dec 08 16:34
MinceR	what if you don't pay the $500?	Dec 08 16:34
DaemonFC	same as violating, the $500 is one of the terms	Dec 08 16:34
DaemonFC	now, they could also give you informal probation	Dec 08 16:34
MinceR	ic	Dec 08 16:34
DaemonFC	same terms but you don't have to check in or pay the fees	Dec 08 16:34
DaemonFC	it basically means if the cops arrest you again, you're in trouble for violating the probation as well	Dec 08 16:35
DaemonFC	other than that, informal probation doesn't actually mean anything	Dec 08 16:35
DaemonFC	I've been on that	Dec 08 16:35
DaemonFC	and was in a bar while I was on it	Dec 08 16:35
DaemonFC	which is a violation	Dec 08 16:35
DaemonFC	and drunk in public after that which is another one obviously	Dec 08 16:36
DaemonFC	but I didn't get arrested, so they never knew	Dec 08 16:36
MinceR	:)	Dec 08 16:36
DaemonFC	it probably also helped that I was out of town and none of the Fort Wayne police or probation officers know me	Dec 08 16:36
DaemonFC	the judge that sentenced me is gay and messing around with my landlord	Dec 08 16:37
DaemonFC	but it's very hush hush	Dec 08 16:37
DaemonFC	he's also an alcoholic	Dec 08 16:37
MinceR	lol	Dec 08 16:37
DaemonFC	I got anger management for 6 months, informal probation for a year	Dec 08 16:38
DaemonFC	had to pay $400 up front for the program and $13 a week for the 6 months	Dec 08 16:38
DaemonFC	and there were my layer fees of another $600	Dec 08 16:38
DaemonFC	*lawyer	Dec 08 16:38
DaemonFC	I got off light	Dec 08 16:38
DaemonFC	We negotiated with the prosecutor and they agreed to not put anything on my record	Dec 08 16:39
DaemonFC	it's like it never even happened now	Dec 08 16:39
DaemonFC	aside from all the money spent to make it go away	Dec 08 16:39
MinceR	what was the case?	Dec 08 16:39
DaemonFC	Class A Misdemeanor, Assault and Battery	Dec 08 16:40
ender2070	I love Fedora + KDE	Dec 08 16:40
ender2070	they are one of the most bleeding edge kde distros you can get	Dec 08 16:41
DaemonFC	Class A Misdemeanor Assault with Bodily Fluids	Dec 08 16:41
MinceR	"if i want cutting edge, i'll get a sword. if i want bleeding edge, i'll use it."	Dec 08 16:41
MinceR	DaemonFC: ew	Dec 08 16:41
DaemonFC	Class A Misdemeanor, Public Intoxication	Dec 08 16:41
DaemonFC	so MinceR, I got a good deal	Dec 08 16:41
MinceR	ic	Dec 08 16:41
DaemonFC	would you agree? :D	Dec 08 16:41
ender2070	I even run rawhide, which is like, even more so	Dec 08 16:42
DaemonFC	MinceR: Technically the judge could have given me 3 years and $15,000 in fines	Dec 08 16:42
DaemonFC	or a mix of years served, fines, and real probation	Dec 08 16:42
ender2070	<DaemonFC> the judge that sentenced me is gay and messing around with my landlord	Dec 08 16:43
DaemonFC	I could still be in jail for that	Dec 08 16:43
ender2070	why do you have to be so ignorant	Dec 08 16:43
DaemonFC	ender2070?	Dec 08 16:43
DaemonFC	Maybe cause I don't respect that a judge running as a Republican, bashing gays publicly, is one himself	Dec 08 16:43
ender2070	you freaked on me for using the word "gay"	Dec 08 16:43
DaemonFC	ender2070: He is gay	Dec 08 16:44
DaemonFC	What do you want me to call him? Delightful?	Dec 08 16:44
DaemonFC	that would be a lie	Dec 08 16:44
MinceR	the issue is with freaking on someone for using the word "gay", isn't it?	Dec 08 16:45
ender2070	yes	Dec 08 16:45
ender2070	cause he freaked on me for saying that about win7	Dec 08 16:45
ender2070	then uses it himself	Dec 08 16:45
DaemonFC	it's not a derogatory term	Dec 08 16:45
DaemonFC	it's descriptive	Dec 08 16:46
DaemonFC	you were using it in a derogatory fashion	Dec 08 16:46
ender2070	I was using it as a descriptive	Dec 08 16:46
DaemonFC	derogatorily descriptive	Dec 08 16:46
ender2070	so the judge is actually homosexual?	Dec 08 16:47
ender2070	as in you have proof	Dec 08 16:47
MinceR	what's wrong with using it in a derogatory fashion if it's true? :>	Dec 08 16:48
DaemonFC	ender2070: Yes I know it is true	Dec 08 16:55
DaemonFC	MinceR: So why can't he say "Windows 7 is worthless"?	Dec 08 16:56
DaemonFC	You know, instead of trying to simultaneously trying to attack Windows 7 and homosexuals	Dec 08 16:57
DaemonFC	which have nothing to do with one another despite his prejudices	Dec 08 16:57
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MinceR	DaemonFC: windows deserves to be attacked because it's a worthless and evil pile of shit	Dec 08 16:59
MinceR	DaemonFC: now i can see why homosexuals would be insulted if they were being equated to windows.	Dec 08 17:00
DaemonFC	right, so why can't he say what he means instead of irrelevantly attacking homosexuals at the same time?	Dec 08 17:00
MinceR	because "something is gay" is a slang term for dismissing something	Dec 08 17:03
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MinceR	s/something/<&>/	Dec 08 17:06
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] I haven't written anything in my blog for more than a month and hav a lot to writeup . I moved it to wordpress http://tinyurl.com/ylewmnh		Dec 08 17:06
phIRCe-local	Title: Arun's blog .::. Size~: 59.53 KB	Dec 08 17:06
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zer0c00l	any one have experience in elisp?	Dec 08 17:15
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zer0c00l	(define xyz (r)(+ r r)) isn't working	Dec 08 17:15
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ender2070] It's about time: Google Chrome for Linux in beta! http://bit.ly/4tGaKr		Dec 08 17:29
phIRCe-local	Title: Google Chrome .::. Size~: 4.87 KB	Dec 08 17:29
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schestowitz	Good show.. http://www.democracynow.org/2009/12/8/stream	Dec 08 17:45
phIRCe-local	Title: Democracy Now! \| Listen/Watch Today's Show .::. Size~: 28.98 KB	Dec 08 17:45
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schestowitz	MinceR: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2009/12/08/joojoo_crunchpad/ "Is the pic a throwback to those Geico commercials that its so simple a caveman can use it?"	Dec 08 17:57
phIRCe-local	Title: 400 Bad Request .::. Size~: 0.31 KB	Dec 08 17:57
MinceR	:)	Dec 08 18:00
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] W00t google chrome officially released for linux. waiting for spot to package it for fedora. :D		Dec 08 18:01
trmanco	strange :\|	Dec 08 18:02
trmanco	http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2009/12/08/joojoo_crunchpad/	Dec 08 18:02
phIRCe-local	Title: 400 Bad Request .::. Size~: 0.31 KB	Dec 08 18:02
trmanco	lool	Dec 08 18:02
trmanco	I was about to install Google Chrome	Dec 08 18:08
trmanco	but it needs gconf-common and some other gnome dep... so I didn't :\|	Dec 08 18:09
schestowitz	http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/12/terrorists_targ.html	Dec 08 18:10
phIRCe-local	Title: Schneier on Security: Terrorists Targeting High-Profile Events .::. Size~: 74.1 KB	Dec 08 18:10
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schestowitz	test http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/08/joojoo_crunchpad/	Dec 08 18:10
phIRCe-local	Title: CrunchPad gets JooJoo eyeballed • The Register .::. Size~: 27.45 KB	Dec 08 18:10
schestowitz	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8400300.stm	Dec 08 18:12
phIRCe-local	Title: BBC NEWS \| News Front Page .::. Size~: 87.09 KB	Dec 08 18:12
schestowitz	"And Y2K isn't the only rollover to trouble computing. Unix systems, including the increasingly popular Linux kernel, count time as the number of seconds since midnight on 1 January 1970, and at 3:14:08 AM UTC on January 19, 2038 the number of seconds will be too great to be stored in a 32-bit number, as used by older Unix systems. At that point any 32-bit Unix computers will think it is 1970, and may well misbehave."	Dec 08 18:12
schestowitz	Any bets on whether we even have such computers in THREE decades???	Dec 08 18:12
schestowitz	That's like using some computer from the 70s today and whining that it doesn't keep time right	Dec 08 18:13
schestowitz	But in the 70s computers were rarer	Dec 08 18:13
schestowitz	"SpaceShipTwo was presented to the world in Mojave, California." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8400353.stm Wow. Same as the name Vista spolied.	Dec 08 18:14
phIRCe-local	Title: BBC NEWS \| News Front Page .::. Size~: 87.11 KB	Dec 08 18:14
trmanco	http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en/w00t.html	Dec 08 18:14
phIRCe-local	Title: Google Chrome .::. Size~: 4.9 KB	Dec 08 18:14
schestowitz	Heh. Brilliant	Dec 08 18:21
schestowitz	"Inspired by xkcd.com. "	Dec 08 18:22
schestowitz	I thought it was just him	Dec 08 18:22
schestowitz	Bad news to Microsoft.... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/08/eu_consumer_protection_laws/	Dec 08 18:22
phIRCe-local	Title: EU rolls out out astroturf guide for consumer laws • The Register .::. Size~: 30.3 KB	Dec 08 18:22
schestowitz	"The Pelican claims sounded, frankly, weird to me when I first read them, including claims of Darl McBride and Robert Brazell setting up a website to defame Robbins." http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091207093050821	Dec 08 18:23
phIRCe-local	Title: Groklaw - Litigation Utah-Style - the Hatch-Jenson (Robbins) Connection - Updated .::. Size~: 82.16 KB	Dec 08 18:23
schestowitz	I guess all those defamation sites against Groklaw become suspect	Dec 08 18:23
schestowitz	http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1565259/nokia-shuts-shop "IT IS A SIGN OF THE TIMES that Nokia has shut its swanky high-tech store in London's Regent Street."	Dec 08 18:27
schestowitz	Hehe. "GREY TIN BOXMAKER Dell..." http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1565244/dell-releases-cut-price-vostro-v13	Dec 08 18:29
schestowitz	http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091208104422384	Dec 08 18:31
phIRCe-local	Title: Groklaw - Monty Program AB's Suggestion to EU Commission to Get Rid of the GPL on MySQL .::. Size~: 36.52 KB	Dec 08 18:31
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schestowitz	http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/12/08/google-cracks-down-on-%E2%80%9Cgoogle-money%E2%80%9D-scammers	Dec 08 18:32
phIRCe-local	Title: Google Cracks Down On “Google Money” Scammers \| WebProNews .::. Size~: 33.11 KB	Dec 08 18:32
schestowitz	Amy Goodman has a special new show from Copenhagen.... http://www.democracynow.org/2009/12/8/stream	Dec 08 18:34
phIRCe-local	Title: Democracy Now! \| Listen/Watch Today's Show .::. Size~: 28.98 KB	Dec 08 18:34
schestowitz	http://arebentisch.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/high-level-event-on-ict-for-energy-efficiency-2010/	Dec 08 18:34
phIRCe-local	Title: High Level Event on ICT for Energy Efficiency 2010 « SkÃ¶ne Oke .::. Size~: 19.19 KB	Dec 08 18:34
schestowitz	http://abcnews.go.com/Health/SwineFluNews/swine-flu-blown-proportion/story?id=9270149	Dec 08 18:38
phIRCe-local	Title: Has Swine Flu Been Blown Out Of Proportion? - ABC News .::. Size~: 69.79 KB	Dec 08 18:38
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schestowitz	http://www.cio.com/article/510117/Larrabee_Intel_s_Bad_News_is_Good_for_Nvidia_and_AMD	Dec 08 18:45
phIRCe-local	Title: Larrabee: Intel's Bad News is Good for Nvidia and AMD - CIO.com - Business Technology Leadership .::. Size~: 105.78 KB	Dec 08 18:45
ender2070	:(	Dec 08 18:47
ender2070	i was rooting for larrabee	Dec 08 18:47
ender2070	now we gotta put up with proprietary nvidia and amd for a while longer	Dec 08 18:47
schestowitz	Well, Intel is a no-go anyway	Dec 08 18:47
ender2070	intel provides open source drivers	Dec 08 18:48
schestowitz	Nvidia.. collusion/price-fixing	Dec 08 18:48
ender2070	amd collusion/price-fixing	Dec 08 18:48
schestowitz	http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20091129070817552/ERP.html	Dec 08 18:48
schestowitz	Slow day today...	Dec 08 18:48
ender2070	heh	Dec 08 18:48
ender2070	google chrome for linux hit beta	Dec 08 18:48
ender2070	http://bit.ly/4tGaKr	Dec 08 18:49
phIRCe-local	Title: Google Chrome .::. Size~: 4.9 KB	Dec 08 18:49
ender2070	it wants lsb to be installed	Dec 08 18:50
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DaemonFC	Nokia makes all the bargain basement crap it seems like	Dec 08 18:55
schestowitz	http://www.my-seo-company.com/index.php?linux&release=Fedora%2012%20LXDE%20Spin	Dec 08 18:56
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DaemonFC	if you want a phone other than the "free" one, there's almost no Nokias	Dec 08 18:56
DaemonFC	they also make most of the dollar store Tracfone models	Dec 08 18:56
schestowitz	http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/6922/1/ "Fedora is among the most world's popular Linux distributions. "	Dec 08 18:58
schestowitz	>>>> "Fedora is among the world's MOST popular Linux distributions.	Dec 08 18:58
schestowitz	oopsie in 1st setence	Dec 08 18:59
schestowitz	DaemonFC: A friend of mine has 3 phones fall into the loo	Dec 08 18:59
schestowitz	He's using his g/f's now	Dec 08 18:59
schestowitz	It's pink !	Dec 08 19:00
DaemonFC	let me guess	Dec 08 19:00
DaemonFC	it's pink	Dec 08 19:00
DaemonFC	haha	Dec 08 19:00
schestowitz	yeah	Dec 08 19:00
schestowitz	I teased him about it	Dec 08 19:00
schestowitz	I asked him why pink means feminine	Dec 08 19:00
schestowitz	He couldn't answer	Dec 08 19:00
schestowitz	Same with the question, why do men have short hair and women have longer hair	Dec 08 19:01
schestowitz	These are generally questions people never ask themselves, like "why if the sky blue" or "what are stars"?	Dec 08 19:02
schestowitz	*is	Dec 08 19:02
ender2070	Jesus had long hair	Dec 08 19:02
ender2070	RMS has long hair	Dec 08 19:03
ender2070	Hippies have long hair	Dec 08 19:03
schestowitz	Minority today	Dec 08 19:03
ender2070	yeah	Dec 08 19:03
schestowitz	Facial hair withstanding	Dec 08 19:03
schestowitz	Maybe it's a sexual identity thing	Dec 08 19:04
ender2070	its peer pressure based self stereotyping	Dec 08 19:04
schestowitz	What if everyone shaved their heads?	Dec 08 19:04
ender2070	"no guys are allowed to wear pink, therefor I can't"	Dec 08 19:04
schestowitz	Or let it grow?	Dec 08 19:04
ender2070	shaved heads isnt a stereotype	Dec 08 19:05
ender2070	unless you're a neo nazi	Dec 08 19:05
schestowitz	Let grow is the more natural option	Dec 08 19:05
schestowitz	ender2070: some tribes too	Dec 08 19:05
schestowitz	It depends.	Dec 08 19:05
ender2070	some stereotypes are reinforced by peer pressure	Dec 08 19:05
schestowitz	ALso US army	Dec 08 19:05
schestowitz	They are not neo-Nazis	Dec 08 19:06
ender2070	some would argue that, rofl	Dec 08 19:06
DaemonFC	http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5B741Q20091208	Dec 08 19:06
schestowitz	But it depends who you ask I guess, e.g. ask in Arb countries	Dec 08 19:06
schestowitz	Anyway, if there was no appearance divide some identify would be lost	Dec 08 19:06
ender2070	even non-crazies like Naomi Wolf insist the US is turning into Nazi Germany	Dec 08 19:06
schestowitz	You'd tell apart sexed (if clothed) by things like adam's apple and stubble	Dec 08 19:07
ender2070	well for instance, you dont see men wearing dresses	Dec 08 19:07
schestowitz	I don't know the manifestation of fashions like hit	Dec 08 19:07
schestowitz	*This	Dec 08 19:07
ender2070	unless they are transgender	Dec 08 19:07
DaemonFC	ender2070: She's crazy just for saying that	Dec 08 19:07
ender2070	DaemonFC - but shes correct	Dec 08 19:07
schestowitz	Like why women have 'women' coluor and man have 'men' colours	Dec 08 19:07
DaemonFC	I wish it were possible to send everyone that says that back in time	Dec 08 19:07
DaemonFC	to live in the real Nazi Germany	Dec 08 19:07
schestowitz	It's very arbitrary anyway	Dec 08 19:07
schestowitz	Like wavelengths	Dec 08 19:07
schestowitz	Physics know no gender	Dec 08 19:08
DaemonFC	they need to beat those people with a cluestick	Dec 08 19:08
ender2070	DaemonFC - you should go back in time too, they had a democracy - Hitler was elected	Dec 08 19:08
DaemonFC	before they go foaming at the mouth with anti-US crap	Dec 08 19:08
DaemonFC	ender2070: So?	Dec 08 19:08
DaemonFC	The election was rigged	Dec 08 19:08
ender2070	Bush did a lot of things Hitler did	Dec 08 19:08
DaemonFC	even if it wasn't rigged, look at how people were there at that time?	Dec 08 19:08
ender2070	it looked like Bush might have used Hitler's blueprint	Dec 08 19:08
DaemonFC	beaten, broken, poor, living like illegal Mexicans, an entire extended family in one house	Dec 08 19:09
schestowitz	DaemonFC: they refers to late 20s, early 30s	Dec 08 19:09
schestowitz	That's not Nazi though	Dec 08 19:09
DaemonFC	I might see why they voted for an extremist	Dec 08 19:09
schestowitz	THe Nazis were not elected then	Dec 08 19:09
DaemonFC	they coerced their way in	Dec 08 19:09
schestowitz	So you could make comparisons to 20s Italy/Germany maybe	Dec 08 19:09
schestowitz	Facing the depression also	Dec 08 19:09
DaemonFC	including physical coercion	Dec 08 19:09
DaemonFC	I don't see gas chambers	Dec 08 19:10
ender2070	we're possibly going to face another depression	Dec 08 19:10
DaemonFC	where are the gas chambers?	Dec 08 19:10
schestowitz	DaemonFC: US had gas chambers	Dec 08 19:10
DaemonFC	where is the United States implementing the genocide?	Dec 08 19:10
schestowitz	Until the 70s IIRC	Dec 08 19:10
schestowitz	For executions	Dec 08 19:10
ender2070	you can still run a facist government without gas chambers	Dec 08 19:10
DaemonFC	where are we unfolding a eugenics program?	Dec 08 19:10
schestowitz	It was seen as unethical and stopped	Dec 08 19:10
ender2070	DaemonFC - you are unfolding a eugenics program	Dec 08 19:10
DaemonFC	I don't see a thing wrong with execution if they have murdered someone, raped someone, etc.	Dec 08 19:11
DaemonFC	I think it should be expanded quite a lot	Dec 08 19:11
DaemonFC	but not for genocidal reasons	Dec 08 19:11
schestowitz	DaemonFC: http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/gascham.html	Dec 08 19:11
phIRCe-local	Title: The gas chamber .::. Size~: 26.52 KB	Dec 08 19:11
schestowitz	History lesson	Dec 08 19:11
DaemonFC	Europe has such a crime rate3	Dec 08 19:11
DaemonFC	why do they lecture us?	Dec 08 19:11
DaemonFC	they let them go	Dec 08 19:12
schestowitz	But it's a wrong, wrong analogy	Dec 08 19:12
ender2070	DaemonFC - did you know, in BOTH world wars, before the US got involved it was selling weapons to BOTH sides?	Dec 08 19:12
schestowitz	I'm not comparing the executions of criminals to genocide	Dec 08 19:12
DaemonFC	schestowitz: So you guys ban guns and people get stabbed isntead	Dec 08 19:12
schestowitz	In fact, the fact that they chose more 'exotic' methods of execution hardly makes much difference	Dec 08 19:12
DaemonFC	does that make you feel better?	Dec 08 19:12
schestowitz	It was Bush who ordered some executions in TX IIRC	Dec 08 19:13
ender2070	two wrongs dont make a right	Dec 08 19:13
DaemonFC	why don't you ban knives so people can get beaten over the head with a bat?	Dec 08 19:13
DaemonFC	schestowitzThe governor does not order an execution	Dec 08 19:13
schestowitz	Not order	Dec 08 19:13
ender2070	you dont murder someone for their crimes, you make them rot in prison the rest of their life, its more of a punishment	Dec 08 19:13
DaemonFC	The governor has the power to pardon or commute an existing sentence	Dec 08 19:13
schestowitz	ANd then there's Bush's #fan, Arnie	Dec 08 19:13
schestowitz	http://www.arnoldexposed.com/	Dec 08 19:14
phIRCe-local	Title: Arnold Exposed .::. Size~: 18.45 KB	Dec 08 19:14
ender2070	arnold said he wanted to be a dictator	Dec 08 19:14
DaemonFC	I wouldn't do either, were I a governor, unless there was clear and compelling evidence that they were wrongly accused	Dec 08 19:14
schestowitz	ender2070: but he wasn't born in the US	Dec 08 19:14
ender2070	DaemonFC - often they dont find out till near the end of the persons term sometimes	Dec 08 19:14
DaemonFC	otherwise, I wouldn't stop a single execution	Dec 08 19:14
schestowitz	And according to some loonie Republicans, neither was Obama	Dec 08 19:15
schestowitz	They don't believe birth certificates	Dec 08 19:15
DaemonFC	schestowitz: You mean the ones who repeatedly lied to and mocked the court?	Dec 08 19:15
ender2070	those loonie republicans are often racist	Dec 08 19:15
DaemonFC	repeatedly turned in exhibits for the court well past deadlines?	Dec 08 19:15
DaemonFC	ender2070: Those are the people you're talking about when you're making Nazi comparisons	Dec 08 19:16
DaemonFC	they're not in the majority	Dec 08 19:16
ender2070	DaemonFC - not every person on death row is guilty, some just have really bad evidence against them	Dec 08 19:16
DaemonFC	there's a lot of people who are delusional, religiously and otherwise	Dec 08 19:17
ender2070	DaemonFC - some were accused and sentanced for murder without there even being proof a murder happened (Reiser)	Dec 08 19:17
DaemonFC	but not everyone who is, is a "Nazi"	Dec 08 19:17
DaemonFC	ender2070: How did he lead the cops to the body?	Dec 08 19:17
DaemonFC	How did he know all the details about how she was murdered?	Dec 08 19:17
DaemonFC	because he murdered her	Dec 08 19:18
ender2070	DaemonFC - he didnt, they found traces of her blood in his car	Dec 08 19:18
DaemonFC	fry the bastard and lets go to lunch	Dec 08 19:18
DaemonFC	:P	Dec 08 19:18
DaemonFC	based on the events in question, I probably would have voted to convict	Dec 08 19:18
schestowitz	DaemonFC: in the link you gave ( http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5B741Q20091208 ), it sounds painless	Dec 08 19:18
ender2070	oh nvm	Dec 08 19:19
ender2070	i didnt read about 2008	Dec 08 19:19
DaemonFC	"He was convicted of strangling to death Tami Engstrom, 22, to whom he had offered a ride from a bar. Biros also raped, beat, and stabbed his victim 91 times before disemboweling her and scattering the body parts across two states."	Dec 08 19:19
DaemonFC	schestowitz: Sounds like a man deserving of a quick and painless death	Dec 08 19:20
DaemonFC	yep	Dec 08 19:20
DaemonFC	:P	Dec 08 19:20
schestowitz	ender2070: Reiser did do it	Dec 08 19:20
ender2070	yes	Dec 08 19:20
DaemonFC	Who the hell cares?	Dec 08 19:20
ender2070	i just read that	Dec 08 19:20
ender2070	i didnt keep up	Dec 08 19:20
DaemonFC	hand someone a ball bat and let them beat the guy to death	Dec 08 19:20
schestowitz	Many haven't	Dec 08 19:20
DaemonFC	I don't care	Dec 08 19:20
DaemonFC	sell me a ticket and pass the popcorn	Dec 08 19:20
ender2070	poor reiser, probably an mk ultra victim	Dec 08 19:21
DaemonFC	people that depraved deserve whatever they get	Dec 08 19:21
DaemonFC	and you have a bunch of ultra-liberal pussies whining that he might feel a little pain after he raped that woman, stabbed her 91 times, and disemboweled the corpse	Dec 08 19:21
ender2070	DaemonFC - he should go to prison, where he will get raped himself and beaten for the rest of his life	Dec 08 19:22
ender2070	"Thou shalt not kill"	Dec 08 19:22
DaemonFC	ender2070: I'd beat the shit out of that guy if I was another prisoner and found out what he had done	Dec 08 19:22
DaemonFC	to death	Dec 08 19:22
DaemonFC	and it would not be painless at all	Dec 08 19:22
ender2070	exactly	Dec 08 19:22
ender2070	why give him a painless death	Dec 08 19:22
ender2070	make him suffer the rest of his life	Dec 08 19:23
ender2070	40 years of pain and torture vs death, death is the easy way out	Dec 08 19:23
DaemonFC	I think they should tell the other prisoners who all the child molesters are	Dec 08 19:23
DaemonFC	especially	Dec 08 19:23
DaemonFC	make sure they get some "special treatment"	Dec 08 19:23
schestowitz	ender2070: torture is unaceptable	Dec 08 19:23
schestowitz	Makes no-one happy	Dec 08 19:23
schestowitz	Nobody likes to even observe it, not even the victim	Dec 08 19:24
schestowitz	Do slavery	Dec 08 19:24
ender2070	the inmates will be doing it	Dec 08 19:24
schestowitz	Have the buggers build railways or something	Dec 08 19:24
DaemonFC	schestowitz: I don't care how painful the guys death was, if anything I hope it was excruciating	Dec 08 19:24
DaemonFC	unbearable	Dec 08 19:24
DaemonFC	probably wasn't though	Dec 08 19:24
ender2070	lol	Dec 08 19:24
ender2070	slavery is illegal though	Dec 08 19:24
schestowitz	Or have em work like workers in China 15 hours/day making shoes at gunpoint	Dec 08 19:24
DaemonFC	ender2070: It's kind of illegal	Dec 08 19:24
schestowitz	ender2070: slavery is not illegal	Dec 08 19:25
DaemonFC	they don't have to pay prisoners minimum wage	Dec 08 19:25
schestowitz	It took different forms	Dec 08 19:25
schestowitz	ANd sometimes taken overseas	Dec 08 19:25
ender2070	slavery is quite illegal, especially involuntary	Dec 08 19:25
DaemonFC	they often work in exchange for more privileges and just enough to buy cigarettes	Dec 08 19:25
DaemonFC	a lot of the work programs are voluntary	Dec 08 19:25
ender2070	but you could pay them and make them work	Dec 08 19:25
DaemonFC	but some are mandatory and unpaid of course	Dec 08 19:25
schestowitz	Like with torture and distant islands	Dec 08 19:26
DaemonFC	washing laundry for example	Dec 08 19:26
schestowitz	Recently it was found the the US had a torture chamber in east Europe too	Dec 08 19:26
DaemonFC	ender2070: I don't think it's wrong to work them like that, even if it's mandatory and unpaid	Dec 08 19:26
ender2070	outside us soil is a different bag	Dec 08 19:26
schestowitz	Saves them fuel money in flying people across the Atlantic I guess	Dec 08 19:26
schestowitz	Unnecessary intervention	Dec 08 19:26
DaemonFC	it takes over $30,000 a year per inmate to be in prison	Dec 08 19:26
DaemonFC	why don't they have to give something back?	Dec 08 19:27
schestowitz	War on terrorism=war on dandruff	Dec 08 19:27
schestowitz	They deploy troops to fight a phenomenon, not an actual enemy	Dec 08 19:27
ender2070	you cant force them to work for nothing unless they are wantonly violating the constitution	Dec 08 19:27
DaemonFC	washing their own damned laundry for free is the very least they should be doing	Dec 08 19:27
schestowitz	Rather than find out how to end the phenomenon (hint: less imperialsm)	Dec 08 19:27
DaemonFC	Why should taxpayers have to hire a full laundry staff when the prisoners can wash their own?	Dec 08 19:27
ender2070	they shouldnt	Dec 08 19:28
ender2070	the prisoners could wash their own laundry without it being considered slavery	Dec 08 19:28
schestowitz	SLavery is still here	Dec 08 19:28
schestowitz	And also forced slavery/labour	Dec 08 19:28
schestowitz	Based on conditions	Dec 08 19:28
ender2070	those conditions are usually the loopholes needed to get away with it	Dec 08 19:29
schestowitz	You imposed conditions under which you do arduous work or starve	Dec 08 19:29
ender2070	incentives can make something voluntary	Dec 08 19:29
schestowitz	Works for the top few	Dec 08 19:29
schestowitz	The system is not based this way	Dec 08 19:29
schestowitz	With extreme/predatory globacapitalism, it's OK for maybe 5%	Dec 08 19:30
schestowitz	Utter s** for the rest	Dec 08 19:30
DaemonFC	ender2070: Like breaking your back 40 hours a week where the incentive is to be able to sleep and eat that week?	Dec 08 19:30
ender2070	theres also a different kind of slavery	Dec 08 19:30
ender2070	wage slaves	Dec 08 19:30
DaemonFC	yeah, lots of people volunteer for that	Dec 08 19:30
schestowitz	Mind you, US population is under 5% of the world, for example	Dec 08 19:30
ender2070	thats where you willingly become a slave to the system in exchange for big brother	Dec 08 19:30
schestowitz	[19:30] <DaemonFC> ender2070: Like breaking your back 40 hours a week where the incentive is to be able to sleep and eat that week?	Dec 08 19:30
schestowitz	+1	Dec 08 19:30
schestowitz	bingo.	Dec 08 19:31
ender2070	in jail they have to provide food	Dec 08 19:31
ender2070	they have human rights still	Dec 08 19:31
schestowitz	Eat/sleep from $employer's POV = fueling	Dec 08 19:31
ender2070	you could make them farm for it though	Dec 08 19:31
schestowitz	Like your mule taking a dump in between forced work sessions	Dec 08 19:31
schestowitz	DaemonFC: 40 hours is unrealistic	Dec 08 19:32
schestowitz	Many have two jobs and work overtime/commute	Dec 08 19:32
schestowitz	So they are likely to work like 60 week	Dec 08 19:32
schestowitz	Even in Indina	Dec 08 19:32
ender2070	they could setup a farm system for jails, where the inmates get to eat as much as they worked on	Dec 08 19:32
DaemonFC	schestowitz: I'd work 60-70 sometimes	Dec 08 19:32
schestowitz	IIRC, Steel industry is/was big	Dec 08 19:32
schestowitz	DaemonFC: in China I hear it's about 100	Dec 08 19:32
DaemonFC	not just behind a desk, but when I was out working on the warehouse floor and orders came in for the holidays and spring and summer we got a surge too	Dec 08 19:33
schestowitz	WIth limitd access to the bathroom, too	Dec 08 19:33
DaemonFC	40 hours a week was a vacation after working several weeks of mandatory overtime	Dec 08 19:33
ender2070	If I was in jail, and they refused to feed me because they gave me the option to not work - i'd contact my lawyer and human rights commission	Dec 08 19:33
schestowitz	I'd say being in the US prison is probably better than a worker in some part os China	Dec 08 19:33
*hweimer (i=5b15dd4e@gateway/web/freenode/x-qdwneohpmnricizi) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 08 19:33
schestowitz	Some Chinese workers would LOOOOOOVE to retire to US prison	Dec 08 19:33
DaemonFC	hell, I'd sign up for it when I was hourly so I could get some more hours in at time and a half	Dec 08 19:33
ender2070	US prison is funny compared to working in China	Dec 08 19:33
*hweimer has quit (Client Quit)		Dec 08 19:34
schestowitz	Maybe for now	Dec 08 19:34
schestowitz	Causes the US had high capita	Dec 08 19:34
schestowitz	Capita	Dec 08 19:34
DaemonFC	when you go salary and you have to work 20 hours of unpaid overtime, it's a different story	Dec 08 19:34
schestowitz	Capital	Dec 08 19:34
ender2070	the US won't be able to make its prisoners work with hazardous materials without protection	Dec 08 19:34
schestowitz	Not PER capita	Dec 08 19:34
ender2070	unlike China	Dec 08 19:35
DaemonFC	The US has high prison population because we don't just let them all go like other countries do	Dec 08 19:35
schestowitz	And still widening -- not lessening -- the gap	Dec 08 19:35
DaemonFC	I'm convinced of that after seeing the way some other countries work	Dec 08 19:35
ender2070	where they have children picking toxing materials, such as lithium and mercury out of junk yards of computer components	Dec 08 19:35
ender2070	often without even having gloves	Dec 08 19:36
schestowitz	!google du pont gas	Dec 08 19:36
phIRCe-local	[1] - DuPont Energy & Utilities: Oil & Gas Extraction SubIndustry ... \| http://www2.dupont.com/Oil_and_Gas_Extraction/en_US/	Dec 08 19:36
phIRCe-local	[2] - DuPont Lighter Refills \| DuPont Gas Refill \| DuPont Lighter Butane \| http://www.jackschwartz.com/s.118/dupont-gaz-gas-refills.aspx	Dec 08 19:36
phIRCe-local	[3] - ST Dupont Pocket Lighters Gas Refills and Accessories \| http://www.bonitasmokeshop.com/st_dupont_pocket_lighters_gas_re.htm	Dec 08 19:36
phIRCe-local	[4] - ST Dupont Gas Simply Cigars Specialists in Cuban cigars, Cigar ... \| http://www.simplycigars.co.uk/dupont-gas-p-1208.html	Dec 08 19:36
schestowitz	!google du pont disaster india	Dec 08 19:36
phIRCe-local	[1] - The Bhopal disaster and its aftermath: a review \| http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1142333/	Dec 08 19:36
phIRCe-local	[2] - March 10, 2009 Charles O. Holliday, Jr., CEO E.I. du Pont De ... \| http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/assets/binaries/dupont-chem-letter	Dec 08 19:36
phIRCe-local	[3] - Ewald André Dupont \| http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0243295/	Dec 08 19:36
phIRCe-local	[4] - DuPont \| http://jobsearch.naukri.com/job-listings-AP-Personal-Computing-Collobration-Regional-Infrastructure-Specialist-E-I-DuPont-India-Private-Limited-Gurgaon-5-to-10-years-191009900079--	Dec 08 19:36
DaemonFC	I do like a cigar now and then, not the cheap ones though	Dec 08 19:36
schestowitz	Ego trip	Dec 08 19:36
DaemonFC	I think those cheapies are just what they pick up off the floor after they make the good stuff	Dec 08 19:37
schestowitz	Hey, YOU, you're not Churchill :-)	Dec 08 19:37
ender2070	so many people are apathetic and dont demand their rights	Dec 08 19:37
DaemonFC	spray it down with blueberry flavoring	Dec 08 19:37
ender2070	people are being dumbed down via mercury in vaccines, flouride in water, and many others	Dec 08 19:38
DaemonFC	I smoked for a while after I became broke, at first I was rolling them, then I found out you could get cigar tobacco cheaper than cigarette tobacco	Dec 08 19:38
DaemonFC	same stuff, they just tax it differently	Dec 08 19:38
ender2070	in canada	Dec 08 19:39
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/08/coffee_washing_not_for_you/	Dec 08 19:39
phIRCe-local	Title: 'We must all stop washing to save the planet' • The Register .::. Size~: 32.43 KB	Dec 08 19:39
DaemonFC	the stuff labeled for cigarettes is about 33% more expensive by weight	Dec 08 19:39
ender2070	people go to native reserves and get untaxxed cigarette tabacco	Dec 08 19:39
schestowitz	I need to rethink lighting perhaps... too much power used here too	Dec 08 19:39
DaemonFC	same stuff as the "cigar" tobacco too	Dec 08 19:39
schestowitz	http://www.democracynow.org/2009/12/8/stream	Dec 08 19:40
phIRCe-local	Title: Democracy Now! \| Listen/Watch Today's Show .::. Size~: 28.98 KB	Dec 08 19:40
DaemonFC	same cut even	Dec 08 19:40
ender2070	schestowitz - i replaced all my 60w bulbs at my new place with 13w bulbs that are brighter	Dec 08 19:40
schestowitz	Hear the guy from the Maldives... we're killing them	Dec 08 19:40
schestowitz	Quote sharp for a 10th grader	Dec 08 19:40
DaemonFC	ender2070: Obama's new cigarette tax was what stopped me finally	Dec 08 19:40
schestowitz	I need to figure out how not to have the stereo on all the time	Dec 08 19:40
ender2070	DaemonFC - good, they should tax it	Dec 08 19:41
schestowitz	But that requires more consumption, which takes its toll on the env. too	Dec 08 19:41
DaemonFC	they cause I got used to the pre-made ones again and they shot up like another 70 cents per pack	Dec 08 19:41
DaemonFC	*that's	Dec 08 19:41
schestowitz	Funny how in Democracy Now she says, we in the US are insular, we don't get the information about you...	Dec 08 19:42
schestowitz	I reckon the Oil/Airline lobby gets a lot of air time over there to deny the issue	Dec 08 19:42
DaemonFC	the airlines are broke	Dec 08 19:42
schestowitz	Good.	Dec 08 19:42
DaemonFC	they don't maintain their planes right	Dec 08 19:42
schestowitz	I had a friend who worked for one	Dec 08 19:42
DaemonFC	they don't pay their pilots right	Dec 08 19:43
schestowitz	They are dropping like flies... the airlines, not the planes	Dec 08 19:43
DaemonFC	they've made customer safety suffer so they can keep giving themselves bonuses	Dec 08 19:43
schestowitz	Yes, that's a scary factor	Dec 08 19:43
schestowitz	Not renewals, replacement, quality control	Dec 08 19:43
ender2070	DaemonFC - thats cause if it crashes, they blame terrorists instead :)	Dec 08 19:43
schestowitz	It seems like plane crashes have become more common	Dec 08 19:43
schestowitz	France had a major incident... hardly reported on	Dec 08 19:44
schestowitz	The TERRO~1!	Dec 08 19:44
DaemonFC	the price for a seat has gone way up	Dec 08 19:44
ender2070	I heard about the france one here in Canada	Dec 08 19:44
schestowitz	Don't fear the planes	Dec 08 19:44
DaemonFC	probably double what it was 10 years ago	Dec 08 19:44
schestowitz	Fear the guy next to you	Dec 08 19:44
schestowitz	Stay isolated	Dec 08 19:44
schestowitz	And then they show you a photo	Dec 08 19:44
schestowitz	"He looks just like YOU!"	Dec 08 19:44
schestowitz	"You can't trust anyone"	Dec 08 19:44
ender2070	statistics say, that the person next to you is either a terrorist or has swine flu	Dec 08 19:44
schestowitz	"Stay isolated"	Dec 08 19:45
schestowitz	There was a report like this on BBC1 today	Dec 08 19:45
schestowitz	Some white dude being shown as a monster	Dec 08 19:45
schestowitz	When I flew to Canada in 2003 it cost me amazingly little	Dec 08 19:45
DaemonFC	of course, if there weren't white terrorists, they'd be "profiling"	Dec 08 19:46
schestowitz	Like over 200 pounds	Dec 08 19:46
schestowitz	Return	Dec 08 19:46
ender2070	oh yeah speaking of bat shit insane	Dec 08 19:46
ender2070	the royal family	Dec 08 19:47
*Diablo-D3 (n=diablo@64.223.238.130) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 08 19:47
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/08/china_execution/	Dec 08 19:47
phIRCe-local	Title: China executes securities trader over $9.52m fraud • The Register .::. Size~: 27.94 KB	Dec 08 19:47
ender2070	Queen Elizebeth the 1st, hired this guy named John Dee as her personal advisor. He was a magician, astrologist, and more. He used crystallomancy to try to talk to angels and figure out the original language. He also spent all his money trying to use achlemy to make gold.	Dec 08 19:48
schestowitz	astrologist?	Dec 08 19:50
ender2070	yes	Dec 08 19:50
schestowitz	URL?	Dec 08 19:50
ender2070	mathematician, astronomer, astrologer, occultist, navigator, imperialist	Dec 08 19:50
ender2070	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dee	Dec 08 19:50
phIRCe-local	Title: John Dee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 132.32 KB	Dec 08 19:50
schestowitz	mathematician?	Dec 08 19:50
schestowitz	In the same sentence?	Dec 08 19:51
ender2070	yes	Dec 08 19:51
ender2070	"Dee immersed himself in the worlds of magic, astrology, and Hermetic philosophy."	Dec 08 19:51
schestowitz	imperialist is not a good thing, either	Dec 08 19:51
_goblin	Just been watching more of that "Everything is OK"........	Dec 08 19:51
schestowitz	It's a nice work for conqueror	Dec 08 19:51
ender2070	hes first on record for coining the term "British Empire"	Dec 08 19:51
schestowitz	*word	Dec 08 19:51
schestowitz	_goblin: is everything OK?	Dec 08 19:52
_goblin	no	Dec 08 19:52
_goblin	certainly not!	Dec 08 19:52
schestowitz	Where?	Dec 08 19:52
_goblin	I can feel an article coming on....	Dec 08 19:52
schestowitz	Goblin lair or in general;?	Dec 08 19:52
_goblin	general...	Dec 08 19:52
schestowitz	True.	Dec 08 19:52
_goblin	and that damn group....	Dec 08 19:52
schestowitz	Well, it least the issue is not localised for you	Dec 08 19:52
_goblin	....	Dec 08 19:52
schestowitz	Newsgroup?	Dec 08 19:52
_goblin	no....	Dec 08 19:53
ender2070	Dee maintained that the angels laboriously dictated several books to him this way, some in a special angelic or Enochian language.	Dec 08 19:53
_goblin	its: http://www.youtube.com/user/cveitch	Dec 08 19:53
schestowitz	ender2070: ME TOO!!	Dec 08 19:53
schestowitz	_goblin: he has gone mad	Dec 08 19:53
schestowitz	The whole mad side	Dec 08 19:53
schestowitz	I stopped looking at it some weeks ago when he made crazy videos	Dec 08 19:54
schestowitz	The other guy is the good one	Dec 08 19:54
schestowitz	Charlie	Dec 08 19:54
_goblin	this guy is trying to make out our society is like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L86AAGZ9BBg	Dec 08 19:54
schestowitz	He's the core of the whole thing	Dec 08 19:54
Diablo-D3	[02:48:43] <ender2070> Dee maintained that the angels laboriously dictated several books to him this way, some in a special angelic or Enochian language.	Dec 08 19:54
schestowitz	Charlie is the mad one	Dec 08 19:54
Diablo-D3	seriously?	Dec 08 19:54
ender2070	isnt cveitch also known as John Connor	Dec 08 19:54
schestowitz	The other one started it	Dec 08 19:54
_goblin	he thinks he knows the law....he thinks he can bend it around it his own pov....	Dec 08 19:54
schestowitz	What's the other one called?	Dec 08 19:55
schestowitz	I can't recall.	Dec 08 19:55
schestowitz	_goblin: some reported cveich to the police	Dec 08 19:55
schestowitz	Seems right	Dec 08 19:55
schestowitz	THe other guy went away AFAICT	Dec 08 19:56
schestowitz	Can't blame him	Dec 08 19:56
_goblin	he is against CCTV...yet he seems to have no problem broadcasting a unwitting person to millions on Youtube....how dare he talk about intrusion....	Dec 08 19:56
schestowitz	Oh, Danny...	Dec 08 19:57
schestowitz	That's the name is the nicer guy	Dec 08 19:57
ender2070	is Mark Dice involved?	Dec 08 19:57
_goblin	Im sure most people would rather be watched on CCTV by a few security gaurds rather than be filmed and put on youtube to prove a point.	Dec 08 19:57
schestowitz	He drifted away.	Dec 08 19:57
schestowitz	Who's he?	Dec 08 19:57
schestowitz	ender2070: Who's he?	Dec 08 19:57
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sebsebseb	hi	Dec 08 19:57
ender2070	Charlie looks like him	Dec 08 19:58
ender2070	some guy who used to go around spreading anti-nwo info as "John Connor"	Dec 08 19:58
_goblin	Does anyone actually think this stuff is true? Does anyone really believe we live in a "They Live" type society?	Dec 08 19:58
schestowitz	ANyway, for all I can tell caused I watched some of it, the whole thing started as an attempt to calm people down	Dec 08 19:58
schestowitz	THus the name, "everything is OK"	Dec 08 19:59
schestowitz	Like the atheistic way of telling people "stop fearing going to Hell"	Dec 08 19:59
schestowitz	_goblin: well, there is surveillance and it's exanding	Dec 08 19:59
schestowitz	Not just here BTW	Dec 08 19:59
_goblin	and thats a problem because?	Dec 08 20:00
schestowitz	But the UK is densely populated, so CCTV makes more economic sense	Dec 08 20:00
schestowitz	In Australia they suppress protests now	Dec 08 20:00
_goblin	Do these clowns even know what RIPR policy is?	Dec 08 20:00
schestowitz	By spaying on people	Dec 08 20:00
schestowitz	In Canada that stalk and silence people who speak against the olympic	Dec 08 20:00
schestowitz	They attack people's freedom of speech	Dec 08 20:00
_goblin	if I may I will give you a few facts on survellance....in the UK...	Dec 08 20:00
ender2070	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJtS9CuyuaU	Dec 08 20:00
schestowitz	Even people who just talk, not protest	Dec 08 20:01
ender2070	schestowitz - its only supposed to cover businesses (olympics)	Dec 08 20:01
_goblin	any member of public can pick up a camera and film (either overtly or covertly) without the permission of the "target"	Dec 08 20:01
schestowitz	They close down the society, and that IMHO, is just as bad as not practicing the censorship _goblin advocated	Dec 08 20:01
schestowitz	It annuls opposition	Dec 08 20:01
schestowitz	Like a one-party state	Dec 08 20:01
_goblin	whereas the police have to comply with RIPR...	Dec 08 20:01
_goblin	a SupInt's authority to film covertly....	Dec 08 20:02
_goblin	and its not simply a form to fill out.	Dec 08 20:02
_goblin	the problem is not the big brother state IMO.	Dec 08 20:02
schestowitz	ender2070: haha! I'll watch this video later	Dec 08 20:03
schestowitz	"So... that's like not good, eh?"	Dec 08 20:03
ender2070	a petition to increase the inflation by 100%	Dec 08 20:03
schestowitz	I had other tenants in nearby apartments asking me to sign a petition	Dec 08 20:03
_goblin	its that the "power" to film whatever and whenever is actually given to the wrong people....the same "power" that allows a member of public to film a school, or your house...	Dec 08 20:03
schestowitz	Petitions are dangerous	Dec 08 20:03
schestowitz	SOme are AstroTurf	Dec 08 20:03
schestowitz	Nowadays you have fake sites and petitions set up by companies	Dec 08 20:03
schestowitz	And scum like Jonathan Zuck (ACT)	Dec 08 20:04
schestowitz	They create fake causes for corporations	Dec 08 20:04
_goblin	I set up a petition once (as a joke of sorts)	Dec 08 20:04
schestowitz	Then they find fools to help them shill thinking that they help spread good	Dec 08 20:04
_goblin	it was to let Jellyfish fall under the Animal Welfare Act.	Dec 08 20:04
_goblin	currently there is no offence of cruelty to jellyfish.	Dec 08 20:04
schestowitz	Does it feel great pain?	Dec 08 20:05
schestowitz	And what about sophisticated plants?	Dec 08 20:05
_goblin	true	Dec 08 20:05
schestowitz	But it's a joke, I know...	Dec 08 20:05
schestowitz	As a kid I would poke them with a stick	Dec 08 20:05
_goblin	any creature that doesn't have a backbone doesnt fall under the Animal Welfare act....	Dec 08 20:05
schestowitz	But the dead ones	Dec 08 20:05
DaemonFC	I still want to ban Dihydrogen Monoxide	Dec 08 20:05
DaemonFC	sounds like some really nasty shit :)	Dec 08 20:06
_goblin	so I suppose in the UK its ok to be cruel to a Wintroll, since they don't have backbones either.	Dec 08 20:06
schestowitz	Hehe.	Dec 08 20:06
schestowitz	They have handbones	Dec 08 20:06
schestowitz	They stand on their hands	Dec 08 20:06
schestowitz	The body just hangs on em	Dec 08 20:06
_goblin	sorry Roy.....whilst the Animal Welfare Act part is true....I was just itching to set up that one liner....	Dec 08 20:07
_goblin	ive got no real interest in Jellyfish.	Dec 08 20:07
_goblin	or cruelty to Wintrolls.	Dec 08 20:07
schestowitz	Are they edible and to whom?	Dec 08 20:07
schestowitz	The jellyfish	Dec 08 20:07
schestowitz	Not the Wintrolls :-)	Dec 08 20:07
_goblin	yep....there was a show on that...	Dec 08 20:07
schestowitz	Do whales eat any?	Dec 08 20:08
schestowitz	They're mammals after all	Dec 08 20:08
_goblin	apparently Wintrolls are delicious once they've been stuffed full of enough Microsoft corporate lunches....	Dec 08 20:08
_goblin	Shill fed...you can't beat it.	Dec 08 20:08
_goblin	and Im sure theres a lurker who will now claim I am a cannibal	Dec 08 20:09
_goblin	so for the lurkers - this is a JOKE	Dec 08 20:09
_goblin	got to be careful to make everything clear here since there are those who will try anything to distort....	Dec 08 20:10
ender2070	I doubt they will	Dec 08 20:10
_goblin	they picked up on less than that.....	Dec 08 20:11
ender2070	one of them actually made serious cannibal statements	Dec 08 20:11
_goblin	oh dear....	Dec 08 20:11
schestowitz	http://identi.ca/notice/16180174	Dec 08 20:11
phIRCe-local	Title: Georg C. F. Greve (greve) 's status on Sunday, 06-Dec-09 13:57:25 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 7.8 KB	Dec 08 20:11
_goblin	and that sells Microsoft products?	Dec 08 20:11
ender2070	no	Dec 08 20:12
ender2070	not directly anyways	Dec 08 20:12
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schestowitz	Microsoft eats its own young	Dec 08 20:12
ender2070	they promote team mono	Dec 08 20:12
_goblin	lol..	Dec 08 20:12
schestowitz	Netscape, DR...	Dec 08 20:12
schestowitz	Microsoft loves WIndows software...	Dec 08 20:12
_goblin	You've said the M word now....	Dec 08 20:12
ender2070	i'd like to tell you who	Dec 08 20:12
schestowitz	When it becomes successful, it then copies and devours	Dec 08 20:13
ender2070	lets just say they are quite old and senile	Dec 08 20:13
schestowitz	"[Microsoft's business strategy is] copy the product that others innovate, put them into Windows so they can't be unplugged, and then give it away for free." --Oracle Corp Chairman Larry Ellison	Dec 08 20:13
schestowitz	"I don’t understand how IE is going to win. The current path is simply to copy everything that Netscape does packaging and product wise. --Jim Allchin, President of Platforms & Services Division at Microsoft	Dec 08 20:14
schestowitz	"Our friends up north [Microsoft] spend over five billion dollars on research and development and all they seem to do is copy Google and Apple." -Steve Jobs, 2006	Dec 08 20:14
schestowitz	Copysoft is a good name for them	Dec 08 20:14
schestowitz	Not Micro-soft	Dec 08 20:15
schestowitz	"Usually Microsoft doesn't develop products, we buy products." --Arno Edelmann, Microsoft's European business security product manager	Dec 08 20:15
schestowitz	http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/senators-nudge-eu-sun	Dec 08 20:16
phIRCe-local	Title: Senators Nudge EU On Sun \| Linux Journal .::. Size~: 43.41 KB	Dec 08 20:16
schestowitz	Any update on that?	Dec 08 20:16
*MinceR has quit (Nick collision from services.)		Dec 08 20:17
*MinceR_ is now known as MinceR		Dec 08 20:17
ender2070	schestowitz - did u read about John Dee	Dec 08 20:19
schestowitz	Why is IDG promoting .NET rubbish in its 'Linux' site? http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2009/120709-get-photoshop-caliber-image-editing-from.html	Dec 08 20:20
phIRCe-local	Title: Get Photoshop-Caliber Image Editing from Paint.NET - LinuxWorld .::. Size~: 35.17 KB	Dec 08 20:20
schestowitz	ender2070: he doesn't run the show	Dec 08 20:21
ender2070	if you do enough research into him, he was also a secret agent	Dec 08 20:21
ender2070	the prototype of james bond	Dec 08 20:21
ender2070	his signature was 007	Dec 08 20:22
schestowitz	What specifically about him?	Dec 08 20:22
schestowitz	"Dee was married twice and had eight children."	Dec 08 20:23
ender2070	well he seems crazy and he worked for the Queen of England	Dec 08 20:23
schestowitz	Hold cr*	Dec 08 20:23
schestowitz	That's almost as many as the Jacksons (9)	Dec 08 20:23
ender2070	lol	Dec 08 20:24
schestowitz	ender2070: but these were ancient times	Dec 08 20:24
schestowitz	It doesn't mean much	Dec 08 20:24
ender2070	all the stuff is in the british history museum	Dec 08 20:24
ender2070	his crystal and stuff	Dec 08 20:24
schestowitz	Some religious people in Kent saw a collision on the moon and recorded it before they knew what the moon was	Dec 08 20:24
ender2070	the creator of mormonism used magical stones, similar to crystallomancy to talk to angels too	Dec 08 20:25
ender2070	he learned that jesus had been to america	Dec 08 20:25
ender2070	etc	Dec 08 20:25
schestowitz	Novell has many Mormons	Dec 08 20:25
schestowitz	But I still don't see the relevance	Dec 08 20:26
schestowitz	The Royal Family won't entertain people like that now.... people who are mostly scamming people for money using mumbo-jumbo	Dec 08 20:26
ender2070	the relevance is that even the royal family at one point beleived in crazy theories	Dec 08 20:26
schestowitz	http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/12/google-promises-to-open-etherpad-source-code.ars	Dec 08 20:27
phIRCe-local	Title: Google promises to open Etherpad source code .::. Size~: 33.42 KB	Dec 08 20:27
schestowitz	ender2070: who didn't?	Dec 08 20:27
schestowitz	It's a mindset, not a choice	Dec 08 20:27
ender2070	scientificly you cant prove or disprove it	Dec 08 20:27
schestowitz	That's the brilliance of it	Dec 08 20:27
ender2070	no measuring device exists for paranormal stuff like talking to angels via crystals	Dec 08 20:27
schestowitz	Straw men	Dec 08 20:27
schestowitz	I love my spaghetti monster	Dec 08 20:28
ender2070	psychologists say people are talking to their subconcious, and they've proved this	Dec 08 20:28
schestowitz	It's flying in orbit 'round the Earth	Dec 08 20:28
schestowitz	Subconscious...	Dec 08 20:29
schestowitz	That's a weird notion in its own right	Dec 08 20:29
schestowitz	It implies invisible things like "soul"....	Dec 08 20:29
ender2070	but, people suggest subconscious minds are linked, or have access to something called an "information field" which scientists and theorists suggests contain universal knowledge such as instinct	Dec 08 20:29
schestowitz	No, instincts are in the inner brain	Dec 08 20:30
schestowitz	We got that from fish and reptils	Dec 08 20:30
schestowitz	Thus the comparison to behaviour linking us to apes and stuff	Dec 08 20:30
ender2070	if you want to dehumanize people you can think like that	Dec 08 20:30
ender2070	we're not objects	Dec 08 20:30
schestowitz	http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-5829269.html	Dec 08 20:31
schestowitz	"When Emory University primatologist Frans de Waal read a news story that said Microsoft's chief executive, Steve Ballmer, had hurled a chair across the room on hearing an employee was going to work for rival Google, the scientist immediately made a connection with his own research: "When I see such behavior, I think of a chimpanzee." "	Dec 08 20:31
schestowitz	Freud did another division	Dec 08 20:31
schestowitz	IIRC he stuidied brain too	Dec 08 20:31
_goblin	I think people read too much into the human condition, we are not important, we are the result of a series of events which brought us to where we are today. In 10 million years time things will be different...we may be about, we may not, its only human arrogance that believes the universe cannot exist without us. (IMO)	Dec 08 20:32
schestowitz	Not just spychology where he revolutionised thinking	Dec 08 20:32
schestowitz	Notions like id	Dec 08 20:32
ender2070	Freud brought up the idea known as the subconscious	Dec 08 20:32
schestowitz	Compartmentalised model	Dec 08 20:32
schestowitz	_goblin: yes, of course. But it's heresy to say so in some circles	Dec 08 20:32
_goblin	I can imagine.	Dec 08 20:32
schestowitz	"We're the children of God" *rolls eyes	Dec 08 20:32
_goblin	I suppose the God of our own creation....	Dec 08 20:33
schestowitz	"Crreated in his own image... or he in ours!"	Dec 08 20:33
_goblin	(as in the story of God)	Dec 08 20:33
ender2070	we're more likely the genetically engineered children of an advanced alien species, than a diety God	Dec 08 20:33
schestowitz	ender2070: animal self	Dec 08 20:33
schestowitz	Feelings that erpt..	Dec 08 20:33
_goblin	but then if God is real (as the bible interprets "him") is he not an alien anyway?	Dec 08 20:34
schestowitz	Confirmed shortly afterwards in WW1	Dec 08 20:34
schestowitz	It turns out that Abe Lincoln too was a little Bush in ays..	Dec 08 20:34
ender2070	its possible that we have animal instincts from the form we were in pre-genetic engineering	Dec 08 20:34
ender2070	not that im 100% on any of this or believe it at all	Dec 08 20:34
_goblin	as far as my "studies" of Christianity go, God is certainly not human...and if he's not human, was not born on this planet then I'd suggest God (if he exists) is an alien.	Dec 08 20:35
schestowitz	Created the civil wars in a way, eliminated basic law, imprisoned like 20k dissenters	Dec 08 20:35
ender2070	I keep an open mind in everything	Dec 08 20:35
ender2070	well in genesis	Dec 08 20:35
ender2070	it sounds like god is talking to people	Dec 08 20:35
schestowitz	_goblin: why need he have gender?	Dec 08 20:35
ender2070	"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness"	Dec 08 20:35
_goblin	he has to....God was MAN made.	Dec 08 20:35
schestowitz	The assumption is not one of succession	Dec 08 20:35
ender2070	who is us? and our?	Dec 08 20:35
schestowitz	So unless we're "The children of God", then he needn't reproduce	Dec 08 20:35
ender2070	theres a lot of people who think God in the bible is an alien entity	Dec 08 20:36
schestowitz	_goblin: there is no one God	Dec 08 20:36
schestowitz	There are many	Dec 08 20:36
ender2070	im not 100% if I believe that but I am still persuing research into this	Dec 08 20:36
schestowitz	Each created in the image of its creator	Dec 08 20:36
schestowitz	Zeus..	Dec 08 20:36
_goblin	sorry just a quick offtopic question .....what year do XP security updates come to an end?	Dec 08 20:36
schestowitz	Or some who believe in a set of Gods	Dec 08 20:37
ender2070	dec 21 2012	Dec 08 20:37
schestowitz	They are all self-contradictory	Dec 08 20:37
schestowitz	So can all be true?	Dec 08 20:37
ender2070	rofl	Dec 08 20:37
_goblin	ender2070: Seriously?	Dec 08 20:37
schestowitz	And at the same time?	Dec 08 20:37
ender2070	im kidding	Dec 08 20:37
schestowitz	More interesting, the contradictory beliefs depends on geographical location	Dec 08 20:37
schestowitz	Might makes you suspicious, aye? :-)	Dec 08 20:37
*schestowitz grumbles		Dec 08 20:37
schestowitz	depend / interestingly	Dec 08 20:38
_goblin	I was just about to draw inference with the Myan calender....God refuses to upgrade XP to Vista 7 so the world ends in 2012 when theres no more security updates...it would certainly explain "Broken Britain" if God is running XP.	Dec 08 20:38
ender2070	there was one scholar who analyzed and examined a bunch of old ancient religions and modern ones and found they are all pretty close to identical	Dec 08 20:38
ender2070	a lot of nameshifting of gods but the stories were the same	Dec 08 20:38
schestowitz	_goblin: XP is supported until -2007- -2008- -2009- -2010- -2012- whenever this bl00dy LUNIX f* dies dies dies	Dec 08 20:39
schestowitz	Microsoft just uses XP as a tool to make more money	Dec 08 20:39
schestowitz	It makes economic sense to block competition w/ it	Dec 08 20:39
ender2070	genesis comes from the religion of the Sumerian people, the first known civilization	Dec 08 20:39
schestowitz	BTW, most Gods have already faded	Dec 08 20:39
schestowitz	Ones that had followers swearing they existed no longer do	Dec 08 20:39
schestowitz	So there's always some new model and storey	Dec 08 20:39
schestowitz	As the older ones fall by the wayside	Dec 08 20:40
_goblin	btw 2012....is a rubbish film....	Dec 08 20:40
schestowitz	Based on lies	Dec 08 20:40
_goblin	unless you like a psuedo biblical message......	Dec 08 20:40
ender2070	I believe in a creation type of force but I do not believe in any sort of religion or that this God is some guy or human at all.	Dec 08 20:40
schestowitz	They spread lies on the Net to hype it up	Dec 08 20:40
_goblin	a little like "The Knowing"	Dec 08 20:40
schestowitz	Junk food films	Dec 08 20:40
schestowitz	Igniting fantasy	Dec 08 20:41
_goblin	yep	Dec 08 20:41
schestowitz	SOme people actually have weird desire for apocalypse	Dec 08 20:41
schestowitz	I think DaemonFC is among them	Dec 08 20:41
ender2070	lol	Dec 08 20:41
schestowitz	Here's what scares me	Dec 08 20:41
schestowitz	Those who believe in afterlife are more likely to be apocaliptic	Dec 08 20:41
_goblin	2012 - The film that tries to suggest a global cataclismic event is all over in 17 days...	Dec 08 20:42
schestowitz	And suicidal too... depending on the religion's rules	Dec 08 20:42
schestowitz	Some used religion to make people scared of homocide and suicide	Dec 08 20:42
ender2070	religion in my mind is just a primitive form of government	Dec 08 20:42
schestowitz	But this whole notion of life after death leaves people apathetic about the environment	Dec 08 20:42
_goblin	So Roy, whats your take on the climate change conspiracy?	Dec 08 20:42
schestowitz	As if, "God willing, it'll be all right"	Dec 08 20:42
schestowitz	_goblin: people conspire against the obvious	Dec 08 20:43
ender2070	I think climate change is being used as a weapon to control people, weather it is true or not	Dec 08 20:43
schestowitz	Lots of bucks in burning up stuff	Dec 08 20:43
_goblin	I personally think it is man made, I think it is effecting our planet.....and theres not a damn thing anyone can do to stop it...	Dec 08 20:43
schestowitz	ender2070: population size needs to be controlled anyhow	Dec 08 20:43
ender2070	taxing babies wont help	Dec 08 20:43
schestowitz	In any species for that matter	Dec 08 20:43
ender2070	im against population control	Dec 08 20:44
schestowitz	I had a chat about it in the afternoon with one who is a professional in the field... someone from the gym	Dec 08 20:44
_goblin	ender2070: say that after having three kids.....	Dec 08 20:44
schestowitz	Basically, population control is inevitable, the question is, how/	Dec 08 20:44
ender2070	a limit on having kids, perhaps	Dec 08 20:44
ender2070	but i dont want some government agency telling me im not allowed to have children, or that my children arent allowed to have kids because of my political views	Dec 08 20:44
schestowitz	So who gets to spread DNA?	Dec 08 20:45
_goblin	ender2070: I joke of course....but just because I can pay for my own children, does it mean I have to pay for others...	Dec 08 20:45
schestowitz	People's body and brain are designed for one goal: spread DNA	Dec 08 20:45
schestowitz	The biologists' point of view (coarse) is that the body is a mechanism for the DNA to replicate self	Dec 08 20:45
DaemonFC	_goblin: The government says you have to pay for crackheads on welfare having kids	Dec 08 20:45
ender2070	there is not a single person I can trust on this planet to make such a decision for someone else	Dec 08 20:45
_goblin	I am against population control, however I think there should be better education in respect of parenting...	Dec 08 20:45
schestowitz	_goblin: that's the euphemism, too	Dec 08 20:46
_goblin	and less "incentive" to produce children merely for a benefit of some sort.	Dec 08 20:46
schestowitz	"Family planning"=population control	Dec 08 20:46
ender2070	I would also support education	Dec 08 20:46
schestowitz	GM crops="green revolution"	Dec 08 20:46
ender2070	stop paying mothers a bonus for having kids	Dec 08 20:46
schestowitz	It's done mostly by the owners of the planet	Dec 08 20:46
schestowitz	Not presidents, the people who pull their strings	Dec 08 20:46
ender2070	if crackheads are on welfare with kids, those kids need to be in better care via adoption	Dec 08 20:47
schestowitz	DaemonFC: the problem is different	Dec 08 20:47
_goblin	I think you have to help those that are about now, but in a world of such suffering of children, I think better education is needed so we can tackle the problem we have now instead of adding to it.	Dec 08 20:47
schestowitz	The law was designed to help and address a need	Dec 08 20:47
schestowitz	Once put into the law it got exploited	Dec 08 20:47
DaemonFC	schestowitz: They still all the people that need help to make way for wastoids, illegal aliens, and career welfare moms	Dec 08 20:47
_goblin	I sponsor a child in Uganda with Worldvision....recieved a christmas card from her....	Dec 08 20:48
ender2070	you dont punish the planet for those few bad eggs	Dec 08 20:48
DaemonFC	*stiff	Dec 08 20:48
schestowitz	To use an analogy, you can make someone adopt some immunity, but then any change in the disease capitalises on the expectation that it will be uniform	Dec 08 20:48
ender2070	my reproduction shouldnt be restricted because fat rednecks cant stop having sex with their sisters and having 20 inbred retards	Dec 08 20:48
DaemonFC	_goblin: One of those fake childrens charities	Dec 08 20:48
schestowitz	Or like biased fitting for patterns... like self-fulfilling prophecies	Dec 08 20:48
DaemonFC	where 80 cents of every dollar is embezzled	Dec 08 20:48
_goblin	its not a fake charity	Dec 08 20:48
schestowitz	Thinking: let's help poor mothers with children	Dec 08 20:48
_goblin	and I know exactly where every penny goes...	Dec 08 20:48
schestowitz	Outcome: more poor mothers have children to exploit the new laws	Dec 08 20:49
_goblin	£50 a month.....	Dec 08 20:49
DaemonFC	_goblin: The pastor's Lexus no doubt	Dec 08 20:49
_goblin	£10 for admin and wages.	Dec 08 20:49
schestowitz	So they exacerbate the new law by making more of the same thing the law was designed to resolve	Dec 08 20:49
_goblin	the rest is split up into funding the child currently and creating a saving account.	Dec 08 20:49
DaemonFC	I don't donate to religious affiliated charities	Dec 08 20:49
DaemonFC	they tend to be scams or a front group looking for exploitable converts	Dec 08 20:50
_goblin	DaemonFC: This is a large UK charity, it is registered and inspected...	Dec 08 20:50
ender2070	dont know charities	Dec 08 20:50
DaemonFC	I tend to toss money in World Wildlife Fund collection drives	Dec 08 20:50
ender2070	dont knock charities	Dec 08 20:50
DaemonFC	or the local humane shelter	Dec 08 20:50
_goblin	DaemonFC: Won't give the WWF a penny!	Dec 08 20:51
schestowitz	World Wrrrrrrrrestlign Federation!	Dec 08 20:51
schestowitz	:-p	Dec 08 20:51
_goblin	DaemonFC: my favorite show had to change its name because of them....	Dec 08 20:51
ender2070	screw the WWF	Dec 08 20:51
schestowitz	_goblin: LOL	Dec 08 20:51
_goblin	which one?	Dec 08 20:51
schestowitz	WCW?	Dec 08 20:51
ender2070	they messed with WWE	Dec 08 20:51
_goblin	WWE	Dec 08 20:51
ender2070	tho	Dec 08 20:51
ender2070	i loved WCW more	Dec 08 20:51
schestowitz	Oh, that's why....	Dec 08 20:51
DaemonFC	the fake wrestling for the entertainment of yokels one	Dec 08 20:52
_goblin	oh	Dec 08 20:52
DaemonFC	the runner up to NASCAR	Dec 08 20:52
schestowitz	I watched WCW when WWF stopped airing	Dec 08 20:52
_goblin	oi	Dec 08 20:52
_goblin	DaemonFC: "I'll lay the smack down on your candy ass!"	Dec 08 20:52
schestowitz	LOL	Dec 08 20:52
ender2070	all the good wrestlers moved to TNA	Dec 08 20:52
_goblin	DaemonFC: thats The Rock by the way, not Goblin.	Dec 08 20:52
ender2070	hulk hogan :D	Dec 08 20:52
_goblin	ender2070: I watch that too...and ROH and IWA....	Dec 08 20:52
ender2070	i used to watch it mainly cause NWO went around ruining peoples shit	Dec 08 20:53
schestowitz	Hogan was old when I was watching it... veteran loonie	Dec 08 20:53
schestowitz	World Wrestling Freak	Dec 08 20:53
_goblin	ender2070: Degeneration X did it so much better than NWO	Dec 08 20:53
ender2070	they didnt have Kevin Nash	Dec 08 20:54
_goblin	WWE did...	Dec 08 20:54
ender2070	after they purchased WCW	Dec 08 20:54
_goblin	he was called....Diesel	Dec 08 20:54
ender2070	yes	Dec 08 20:54
_goblin	and it was before the purchase of WCW	Dec 08 20:54
schestowitz	ender2070: Guest Blog By Carey Mercer: How The Vancouver Olympics Is Fucking Over Your Favourite Artists, And Why You Should Care	Dec 08 20:54
ender2070	but they all moved to WCW with hogan	Dec 08 20:54
schestowitz	http://stereogum.com/archives/op-ed/guest_blog_by_carey_mercer_how_the_vancouver_olympics_103971.html	Dec 08 20:54
phIRCe-local	Title: Guest Blog By Carey Mercer: How The Vancouver Olympics Is Fucking Over Your Favourite Artists, And Why You Should Care - Op-Ed - Stereogum .::. Size~: 211.33 KB	Dec 08 20:54
_goblin	Stone Cold won the ratings war...although the Hart/McMahon real conflict did it no harm either.	Dec 08 20:55
_goblin	WCW became a tribute to hogan in the end.	Dec 08 20:55
_goblin	IMO thats why it failed.	Dec 08 20:56
ender2070	it didnt fail	Dec 08 20:56
_goblin	well it certainly couldnt compete with Titan Sports	Dec 08 20:56
_goblin	ratings fell	Dec 08 20:56
_goblin	and so did sponsorship.	Dec 08 20:56
*wallc (i=44e6566b@gateway/web/freenode/x-tgmnoaykfkqgilhx) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 08 20:56
ender2070	i dunno	Dec 08 20:56
ender2070	undertaker and his blood baths was kind of retarded	Dec 08 20:56
_goblin	and then the ultimate low, when they released WWE results on a WCW broadcast just to stop people switching over.	Dec 08 20:57
ender2070	but	Dec 08 20:57
ender2070	Mankind vs Undertaker = legendary	Dec 08 20:57
_goblin	HIAC?	Dec 08 20:57
_goblin	Sorry - Hell in a cell?	Dec 08 20:57
ender2070	yeah	Dec 08 20:57
_goblin	mmm	Dec 08 20:57
_goblin	it was ok...	Dec 08 20:57
ender2070	tombstoned through the cage	Dec 08 20:57
ender2070	onto tacks	Dec 08 20:57
_goblin	I take it you never saw Mick Foley in Japan in the IWA?	Dec 08 20:57
ender2070	it was real too, he even had a tooth in his nose	Dec 08 20:57
ender2070	nah	Dec 08 20:58
_goblin	explosive barbed wire set him alight.	Dec 08 20:58
_goblin	or when Vader ripped the bottom of his ear off....	Dec 08 20:58
schestowitz	http://techdirt.com/articles/20091206/1142187219.shtml	Dec 08 20:59
phIRCe-local	Title: Accidental Download Leading To Prison Sentence? \| Techdirt .::. Size~: 73.66 KB	Dec 08 20:59
DaemonFC	http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/07/senate-dems-may-open-up-m_n_382728.html	Dec 08 20:59
schestowitz	Hey, wallc	Dec 08 20:59
phIRCe-local	Title: Senate Dems May Open Up Medicare To Pacify Progressives .::. Size~: 216.85 KB	Dec 08 20:59
DaemonFC	Democrats strain Medicare even further past the breaking point to buy more support from old people	Dec 08 20:59
schestowitz	DaemonFC: wallc was unhappy with your position on AARP	Dec 08 21:00
DaemonFC	AARP is just a lobbying front for big insurance groups	Dec 08 21:01
schestowitz	http://pblog.bna.com/techlaw/2009/12/ecpa-protections-dont-apply-outside-united-states.html	Dec 08 21:01
phIRCe-local	Title: TechLaw: ECPA Protections Don't Apply Outside United States .::. Size~: 35.22 KB	Dec 08 21:01
DaemonFC	they want to bilk the government to funnel more money to health care cartels	Dec 08 21:01
DaemonFC	the side effect is insurance for old people which in turn vote for whoever AARP says to	Dec 08 21:01
DaemonFC	everybody wins except the <50 crowd who get robbed and have decades to wait for benefits that won't be there	Dec 08 21:02
DaemonFC	Medicare is unsustainable thanks largely to AARP lobbying	Dec 08 21:02
DaemonFC	of course AARP wants more people on Medicare, they SELL Medicare "Advantage" plans!	Dec 08 21:03
DaemonFC	the more people that get duped into signing up for those plans, the more of a killing AARP makes	Dec 08 21:04
DaemonFC	What do you get with AARP? Same thing you got with Original Medicare only you pay $50 overhead and are limited to what doctors you can see	Dec 08 21:04
DaemonFC	sounds swell, doesn't it schestowitz?	Dec 08 21:04
DaemonFC	those "Advantage" plans are pretty much all rotten, they have all the deficiencies of the government Medicare plan and then higher costs and you're now dealing with a for-profit insurer who makes money to deny treatments and tell you which doctor you can see	Dec 08 21:06
ender2070	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky	Dec 08 21:06
phIRCe-local	Title: Immanuel Velikovsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 98.82 KB	Dec 08 21:06
ender2070	this is the guy	Dec 08 21:06
schestowitz	http://tech.shantanugoel.com/2009/11/08/grub-knetworkmanager-kubuntu-karmic.html	Dec 08 21:06
phIRCe-local	Title: grub and knetworkmanager problems in Kubuntu Karmic \| Shantanu's Technophilic Musings .::. Size~: 41.74 KB	Dec 08 21:06
DaemonFC	most people who enroll in them get out later, but they have you trapped for a year where you can't do anything to get them to stop fucking you over	Dec 08 21:07
schestowitz	That's what wallc says	Dec 08 21:07
DaemonFC	schestowitz: So you see why I say AARP is a conflict of interest	Dec 08 21:08
schestowitz	wnwhat about him?	Dec 08 21:08
DaemonFC	they're serving their own interests first	Dec 08 21:08
DaemonFC	schestowitz: Provided there is an AARP in 25 years (When I'll be 50), I won't be signing up	Dec 08 21:09
ender2070	"The catastrophes which occurred within the memory of mankind are recorded in the myths, legends and written history of all ancient cultures and civilisations. Velikovsky pointed to alleged concordances in the accounts of many cultures, and proposed that they referred to the same real events. For instance, the memory of a flood is recorded in the Hebrew Bible, in the Greek legend of Deucalion and in the Manu legend of	Dec 08 21:09
ender2070	India. Velikovsky put forward the psychoanalytic idea of "Cultural Amnesia" as a mechanism whereby these literal records came to be regarded as mere myths and legends."	Dec 08 21:09
DaemonFC	Blue Haired Mafia is what I call AARP	Dec 08 21:10
schestowitz	ender2070: they say Inca got swept by something	Dec 08 21:11
ender2070	"That the Deluge (Noah's Flood) had been caused by proto-Saturn entering a nova state, and ejecting much of its mass into space."	Dec 08 21:11
schestowitz	Mayb asteroid collusion in the Atlantic ocean	Dec 08 21:11
schestowitz	But it was well before years were properly counted	Dec 08 21:11
schestowitz	ender2070: HAHA	Dec 08 21:12
schestowitz	Oh, it's him...?	Dec 08 21:12
DaemonFC	schestowitz: In the year of our Lord, you mean?	Dec 08 21:12
DaemonFC	:)	Dec 08 21:12
schestowitz	The one Sagan spoke about...?	Dec 08 21:12
schestowitz	Who said that Saturn emitted one of the planets (Venus or Mercury IIRC?)	Dec 08 21:12
ender2070	"Jupiter had been the culprit for the catastrophe which saw the destruction of the "Cities of the Plain" (Sodom and Gomorrah)"	Dec 08 21:12
ender2070	probably this guy	Dec 08 21:12
schestowitz	Hehe.	Dec 08 21:13
ender2070	"Periodic close contacts with Mars had caused havoc in the 8th and 7th centuries BCE."	Dec 08 21:13
schestowitz	The universe works to suit religious goals	Dec 08 21:13
schestowitz	God stopped Sodomy by throwing some planets near to Earth	Dec 08 21:13
ender2070	lol	Dec 08 21:13
schestowitz	Let me find the Cosmos bit on it	Dec 08 21:13
ender2070	or some planets came near to earth and they said they had to stop sodomy or else	Dec 08 21:14
wallc	Hi, I stepped away for a few minutes...	Dec 08 21:14
schestowitz	Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MlN7iVIuhk	Dec 08 21:14
schestowitz	Haha.	Dec 08 21:15
schestowitz	Still hilarious	Dec 08 21:15
ender2070	Carl Sagan is often questionable	Dec 08 21:16
schestowitz	Maybe.	Dec 08 21:16
schestowitz	Did you watch this?	Dec 08 21:16
DaemonFC	schestowitz: I still say the asteroids got together to form a committee to address the planetary real estate devaluation caused by so many homosexuals	Dec 08 21:16
ender2070	no i've just heard negative things about him	Dec 08 21:16
DaemonFC	:D	Dec 08 21:16
DaemonFC	there went the neighborhood kinda	Dec 08 21:16
schestowitz	Psychiatrists should stay out of astronomy	Dec 08 21:17
*MinceR summons Sagan-Man		Dec 08 21:17
schestowitz	ender2070: I heard good things	Dec 08 21:17
schestowitz	Tyson said he was so kind to him	Dec 08 21:17
schestowitz	He even offered to have him stay over and spent a lot of time with him	Dec 08 21:17
schestowitz	And he was an activist against nukes	Dec 08 21:18
ender2070	Carl spent most of his time rebutting Velikovsky	Dec 08 21:18
schestowitz	DaemonFC: if you really really really really want something, you can evoke another planet and tell a story about the wonders of Go... I mean, planet	Dec 08 21:18
schestowitz	ender2070: why waste time on it?	Dec 08 21:19
schestowitz	See the video	Dec 08 21:19
ender2070	i am	Dec 08 21:19
schestowitz	Velikovsky just discredited everything he ever said	Dec 08 21:19
ender2070	hes attacking a "theory"	Dec 08 21:19
DaemonFC	schestowitz: Funny how people ignore the fact that homosexuality went on, so God failed	Dec 08 21:19
DaemonFC	or maybe that their bible tells of all kinds of wickedness going on	Dec 08 21:19
ender2070	carl sagan is a company man	Dec 08 21:19
DaemonFC	incest, child rape, etc.	Dec 08 21:19
schestowitz	DaemonFC: God didn't fail	Dec 08 21:19
schestowitz	He made everything	Dec 08 21:19
DaemonFC	and never once mentions homosexuality	Dec 08 21:19
schestowitz	I mean, EVERYTHING	Dec 08 21:19
DaemonFC	including the homosexuals?	Dec 08 21:20
DaemonFC	yay, God made me!	Dec 08 21:20
schestowitz	So the question that's begged is, why did God make people gay if he's got a problem w/ it?	Dec 08 21:20
ender2070	Carl Sagan just said scientists dont supress ideas	Dec 08 21:20
DaemonFC	and why did he try to wipe us out and fail?	Dec 08 21:20
ender2070	that discredited everything he just said	Dec 08 21:20
schestowitz	ender2070: yes, he was attacked for it	Dec 08 21:20
schestowitz	I think Charlie ROse did it...	Dec 08 21:21
MinceR	http://www.motifake.com/do-you-want-to-play-yes-this-is-what-we-ve-now-become-demotivational-poster-57373.html	Dec 08 21:21
schestowitz	Hold on...	Dec 08 21:21
phIRCe-local	Title: demotivational poster DO YOU WANT TO PLAY .::. Size~: 17.96 KB	Dec 08 21:21
DaemonFC	schestowitz: Maybe so that Christians could be annoying and pointing at that for the rest of eternity?	Dec 08 21:21
schestowitz	I think that's the one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jod7v-m573k	Dec 08 21:21
schestowitz	ender2070: basically, hypocrisy	Dec 08 21:21
schestowitz	http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/183887/google_will_release_etherpad_as_open_source.html	Dec 08 21:22
phIRCe-local	Title: Google Will Release EtherPad as Open Source - PC World Business Center .::. Size~: 60.1 KB	Dec 08 21:22
ender2070	lol	Dec 08 21:22
ender2070	calling something pseudo-science, is suppression	Dec 08 21:23
schestowitz	http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=phx_2009_survey_results&num=1	Dec 08 21:24
phIRCe-local	Title: [Phoronix] 2009 Linux Graphics Survey Results .::. Size~: 18.98 KB	Dec 08 21:24
schestowitz	ender2070: tricky situation	Dec 08 21:24
schestowitz	Like w/ all censorship	Dec 08 21:24
ender2070	yes	Dec 08 21:24
schestowitz	The thing to say is, "OK..."	Dec 08 21:25
ender2070	cause they can be right but technology isnt advanced enough	Dec 08 21:25
schestowitz	"Let's try to find proof"	Dec 08 21:25
schestowitz	"You me your cards..."	Dec 08 21:25
ender2070	which is why, you keep an open mind and wait for proof that its wrong	Dec 08 21:25
schestowitz	Or that it's true	Dec 08 21:25
ender2070	even when proof exists, keep an open mind in case other proof invalidates it	Dec 08 21:25
schestowitz	Some things cannot be disproven cause they are not proven in the first place or vice versa	Dec 08 21:25
ender2070	yes	Dec 08 21:25
ender2070	science doesnt believe in free will for example	Dec 08 21:26
schestowitz	Axioms are hard to prove]	Dec 08 21:26
schestowitz	I think that 1+1=2 requires like a whole thesis	Dec 08 21:26
schestowitz	Huge book just to prove 1+1=2	Dec 08 21:26
schestowitz	Einstein used intuition and simple examples in experiments with right-angled mirrors to argue about time being relative	Dec 08 21:27
schestowitz	He published a paper with no citations or footnots	Dec 08 21:27
schestowitz	Got a Nobel prize for that work	Dec 08 21:27
schestowitz	But it still requires more proof	Dec 08 21:27
ender2070	yes	Dec 08 21:27
schestowitz	Then you have John Nash with the 5-page thesis	Dec 08 21:27
schestowitz	Then you have John Nash with the 50-page thesis	Dec 08 21:27
ender2070	one of his earlier theories was debunked at the time, and hes been proven right in the last decade	Dec 08 21:27
schestowitz	Only appreciated many years later when some banksters used it	Dec 08 21:28
ender2070	on dark matter	Dec 08 21:28
schestowitz	He spent 20 years trying to prove wrong things	Dec 08 21:28
schestowitz	Not much of a success story	Dec 08 21:28
ender2070	?	Dec 08 21:28
schestowitz	It's interesting how some people became symbols...	Dec 08 21:28
schestowitz	Like Gates and "success"	Dec 08 21:28
schestowitz	Where "Succeed" if greed and felony	Dec 08 21:29
schestowitz	Or "magic" for some phonies who trick the eye	Dec 08 21:29
schestowitz	Godel was a great thinker	Dec 08 21:29
schestowitz	He even has a prize named after him	Dec 08 21:29
schestowitz	After he escaped Europe he used to hang out with Einstein	Dec 08 21:29
schestowitz	And he proved some good things	Dec 08 21:30
schestowitz	Also, it's assumed that natural sciences like physics make up great minds, whereas other areas are not quite the same because the people there are not equally eccentric	Dec 08 21:30
schestowitz	Let me find a good film.......	Dec 08 21:30
schestowitz	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUL-x8Gm1h4&NR=1	Dec 08 21:31
ender2070	yes	Dec 08 21:31
ender2070	some of the most intelligent people on this world seemed crazy or eccentric	Dec 08 21:31
cubezzz	Nash?	Dec 08 21:32
cubezzz	yes, often true	Dec 08 21:32
schestowitz	Einstein seems to have been in the right time and place (and important topic)	Dec 08 21:32
schestowitz	People in previous centuries (like Newton) were probably brighter contemporaries	Dec 08 21:32
cubezzz	let's see, Telsa, Newton, Stallman...	Dec 08 21:32
schestowitz	Einstein could barely get a job for years	Dec 08 21:33
ender2070	Alan Turing	Dec 08 21:33
schestowitz	Yeah.	Dec 08 21:33
schestowitz	But he died early... on hormones	Dec 08 21:33
schestowitz	They tried to "cure him"	Dec 08 21:33
ender2070	Galileao	Dec 08 21:33
schestowitz	Stallman could get any job... 1600 in his SATs	Dec 08 21:33
ender2070	turing killed himself	Dec 08 21:33
schestowitz	Because they messed him up	Dec 08 21:34
ender2070	yes	Dec 08 21:34
schestowitz	Like Michael Jackson killed himself	Dec 08 21:34
schestowitz	Self destructive with drugs and surgeries	Dec 08 21:34
schestowitz	Teddy Riley saw it coming	Dec 08 21:34
ender2070	yeah	Dec 08 21:34
ender2070	elvis died like that too	Dec 08 21:34
schestowitz	Drugs?	Dec 08 21:35
schestowitz	Monroe	Dec 08 21:35
schestowitz	I think she got some counselling at the time	Dec 08 21:35
cubezzz	Self Destructive describes a lot of people	Dec 08 21:35
schestowitz	Anyway, some of them get 'suicided	Dec 08 21:35
schestowitz	I think Toto Jackson's wife was the one murdered	Dec 08 21:35
schestowitz	*Tito?	Dec 08 21:35
schestowitz	[21:35] <cubezzz> Self Destructive describes a lot of people	Dec 08 21:36
schestowitz	I know some people like that, smokers sometimes	Dec 08 21:36
cubezzz	yes, Toto was Dorothy's dog :)	Dec 08 21:36
schestowitz	Yeah	Dec 08 21:36
schestowitz	That's why I realised I got it wrong	Dec 08 21:36
cubezzz	Comedians really seem to be on the edge	Dec 08 21:37
cubezzz	Farley, Belushi, Arbuckle...	Dec 08 21:37
cubezzz	Toto was also a band in the 80's	Dec 08 21:38
schestowitz	Canada does it again... http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/SkyTrain+buskers+face+billing+TransLink+song+royalties/2305546/story.html	Dec 08 21:38
ender2070	Kurt Kobain	Dec 08 21:39
schestowitz	Was he murdered after all?	Dec 08 21:39
cubezzz	life isn't always fun	Dec 08 21:39
schestowitz	Isn't it insulting when someone murders you and the press says you're a depressed suicidal maniac?	Dec 08 21:39
cubezzz	the internet seems rather sluggish today	Dec 08 21:39
schestowitz	They can also shove some drugs in you before the murder	Dec 08 21:39
cubezzz	not impossible	Dec 08 21:40
schestowitz	This way you're described as some crackheard who cracked him/her head	Dec 08 21:40
schestowitz	/him/his	Dec 08 21:40
ender2070	"The letter states that Socan — the Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada — is demanding royalties for songs being performed in stations."	Dec 08 21:40
cubezzz	too much money seems to be a problem too	Dec 08 21:41
ender2070	Just as bad as the Author's guild	Dec 08 21:41
ender2070	selling out every author in america to google	Dec 08 21:41
cubezzz	although you would tend to think a lot of money would make things easier	Dec 08 21:41
ender2070	and even public domain works	Dec 08 21:41
*DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Dec 08 21:42
cubezzz	ok, was she making $600 per week, or per month?	Dec 08 21:42
cubezzz	that article is a bit vague	Dec 08 21:42
ender2070	a month	Dec 08 21:42
ender2070	she barely paid rent	Dec 08 21:42
cubezzz	hmmm	Dec 08 21:42
cubezzz	yeah I was thinking $600 per week isn't bad at all :)	Dec 08 21:42
ender2070	basicly some organization came in and said they wanted to be paid for her doing it	Dec 08 21:43
schestowitz	For what?	Dec 08 21:43
schestowitz	Using her vocal chords?	Dec 08 21:43
ender2070	yes	Dec 08 21:43
ender2070	exactly	Dec 08 21:43
ender2070	they are like "shes an artist, thats our juristiction"	Dec 08 21:43
schestowitz	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q25-S7jzgs	Dec 08 21:44
schestowitz	The part about Sousa	Dec 08 21:44
ender2070	its just like the authors guild giving google permission to scan books of authors who arent part of the authors guild	Dec 08 21:44
schestowitz	On using the vocal chords like the human lost the monkey's tail	Dec 08 21:44
schestowitz	http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/07/irs-goes-after-mothe.html	Dec 08 21:45
phIRCe-local	Title: IRS goes after mother who makes $10 an hour Boing Boing .::. Size~: 156.43 KB	Dec 08 21:45
*Python1320 has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)		Dec 08 21:46
ender2070	this isnt about them playing copyright content, as they dont even have the option of switching to their own sheets	Dec 08 21:47
ender2070	nor has every busker been asked for lists of what they play	Dec 08 21:47
*Python1320 (n=Python13@unaffiliated/python1320) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 08 21:47
schestowitz	http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091206/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_open_government	Dec 08 21:47
phIRCe-local	Title: Promises, promises: A closed meeting on openness - Yahoo! News .::. Size~: 103.28 KB	Dec 08 21:48
schestowitz	Dance, Barack, dance	Dec 08 21:48
schestowitz	ender2070: do you know how most music is made?	Dec 08 21:48
schestowitz	That is, 'premium' content?	Dec 08 21:49
schestowitz	Like most music...	Dec 08 21:49
ender2070	sampling other artists	Dec 08 21:49
schestowitz	Someone is inspired	Dec 08 21:49
ender2070	or copying styles	Dec 08 21:49
schestowitz	Inputx+inputy->inputz	Dec 08 21:49
schestowitz	they listen to beats and copy with variation	Dec 08 21:49
schestowitz	Then mix	Dec 08 21:49
schestowitz	the good ones hide the origins	Dec 08 21:49
ender2070	or combining and hybridizing styles	Dec 08 21:49
schestowitz	But if you align it you can see it	Dec 08 21:49
schestowitz	"Ain't no mountain high enough" is a good example	Dec 08 21:49
ender2070	rap is obvious	Dec 08 21:50
schestowitz	Another is Sting's "how fragile we are"	Dec 08 21:50
ender2070	in this regard	Dec 08 21:50
schestowitz	Hall and Oates	Dec 08 21:50
schestowitz	So they claim to 'own' music	Dec 08 21:50
schestowitz	It's complicated	Dec 08 21:50
schestowitz	Even what I write right not is now 100% original	Dec 08 21:50
schestowitz	It's based on thinks I heard and read and watched	Dec 08 21:50
schestowitz	That's what we all are	Dec 08 21:50
schestowitz	We absorb stuff and emit similar stuff	Dec 08 21:51
schestowitz	So this whole notion of intellectual monopoly is bizarre	Dec 08 21:51
schestowitz	Yet people are self-centric so they love to think of their output as unique	Dec 08 21:51
schestowitz	Cause they forget or can't see the origin of it	Dec 08 21:51
schestowitz	Even their computation skills for intepreting speech adn writing is driven by the motor trained through listening and readinh	Dec 08 21:52
schestowitz	So that too is 'plagiarised'	Dec 08 21:52
schestowitz	It's a predictive model	Dec 08 21:52
schestowitz	The mind is like a Markov chain	Dec 08 21:52
schestowitz	And you can expect next words to come	Dec 08 21:52
schestowitz	Less good at going backwards with words	Dec 08 21:52
schestowitz	Same with images	Dec 08 21:52
schestowitz	You see an abyss	Dec 08 21:52
schestowitz	Then you expect what happens next	Dec 08 21:52
schestowitz	Since bith	Dec 08 21:52
schestowitz	Training machines	Dec 08 21:53
schestowitz	And this expectation model can improve	Dec 08 21:53
schestowitz	Same with music	Dec 08 21:53
schestowitz	When you listen to a track	Dec 08 21:53
schestowitz	You can tell what track comes next	Dec 08 21:53
schestowitz	Cause your mind was trained to expect the sequence of tracks on CDs	Dec 08 21:53
schestowitz	You can sing the wong without thinking about it given enough practice which rehearses the sequences	Dec 08 21:54
schestowitz	Physical motions like dances are the same of course	Dec 08 21:54
schestowitz	It's just signals and sequences required to make them	Dec 08 21:54
schestowitz	Athletes are good at making particular sequences	Dec 08 21:54
schestowitz	So going back to music and art, this 'originality' idea is innately complicated	Dec 08 21:55
schestowitz	There is no originality	Dec 08 21:55
schestowitz	It's a mashup of inputs	Dec 08 21:55
schestowitz	Each chooses separate inputs	Dec 08 21:55
schestowitz	That's why we all think differently	Dec 08 21:55
schestowitz	But things like broadcast make large groups of the populations more similar by streaming to them similar (dis/)information	Dec 08 21:56
schestowitz	http://techie-buzz.com/linux-tips/how-to-transform-ubuntu-into-windows-xp-desktop.html	Dec 08 21:57
phIRCe-local	Title: Transform Ubuntu (GNOME) To Windows XP \| GNOME Tweaks \| Ubuntu Tweaks .::. Size~: 48.31 KB	Dec 08 21:57
schestowitz	David Worthington writes for the Technologizer now ... http://www.pcworld.com/article/183986/boxee_box_aims_for_your_tv.html	Dec 08 22:04
phIRCe-local	Title: Boxee Box Aims for Your TV - PC World .::. Size~: 67.79 KB	Dec 08 22:04
ender2070	sounds a bit like predictive programming	Dec 08 22:05
schestowitz	/bith/birth/	Dec 08 22:05
schestowitz	ender2070: IBM is working on computerised brain	Dec 08 22:06
schestowitz	But the human brain has many nodes, not one central pipe	Dec 08 22:06
ender2070	pavlovian mind control	Dec 08 22:06
*_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat")		Dec 08 22:06
ender2070	by controlling the environment you can effect changes in the mind	Dec 08 22:07
schestowitz	computers have one pipeline or many nodes/cores	Dec 08 22:07
schestowitz	A friend of mine reckons birth of babies will be parly handles by machines in 200 years	Dec 08 22:08
*_goblin (n=quassel@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 08 22:08
schestowitz	He's in this field	Dec 08 22:08
schestowitz	*handled	Dec 08 22:08
schestowitz	You can simulate conditions of wombs	Dec 08 22:08
schestowitz	and babies can swin when they are born... it's odd	Dec 08 22:08
ender2070	yeah hes probably right	Dec 08 22:09
schestowitz	Kurzweil thinks we can self-heal cell for very long lives	Dec 08 22:09
ender2070	and the dna will be genetically engineered	Dec 08 22:09
schestowitz	/s/thinks/hopes/	Dec 08 22:09
schestowitz	" The Vostro V13 is about 0.65in thin, weighs 3.5lbs and starts at $449 with Ubuntu 9.04 or $599 with Windows 7 Home Premium. "	Dec 08 22:10
schestowitz	http://www.techspot.com/news/37253-Dell-intros-new-lowcost-ultrathin-Vostro-V13.html	Dec 08 22:10
phIRCe-local	Title: Dell intros new low-cost ultrathin, Vostro V13 - TechSpot News .::. Size~: 36.37 KB	Dec 08 22:10
schestowitz	People might think that Windows is better because it's more expensive	Dec 08 22:10
ender2070	could have babies grown for specific purposes	Dec 08 22:10
schestowitz	That's how people are trained to think anyway	Dec 08 22:10
schestowitz	ender2070: well, that's where life loses its value	Dec 08 22:10
ender2070	have you seen star wars: attack of the clones	Dec 08 22:10
schestowitz	"manufacturing" or "harvesting" life	Dec 08 22:11
schestowitz	See what they do the chicken	Dec 08 22:11
ender2070	those "clones" where grown and genetically modified for war	Dec 08 22:11
schestowitz	Not the free-range ones	Dec 08 22:11
schestowitz	Farms became meet factories	Dec 08 22:11
schestowitz	The animals are just tools	Dec 08 22:11
ender2070	yes	Dec 08 22:11
schestowitz	*meat	Dec 08 22:11
schestowitz	ender2070: no, robots are better for wars	Dec 08 22:11
schestowitz	No need for engineering of life for it	Dec 08 22:12
ender2070	robots are too dumb	Dec 08 22:12
schestowitz	Robots are less mortal and recyclable	Dec 08 22:12
ender2070	you would need remote control	Dec 08 22:12
schestowitz	Not really	Dec 08 22:12
ender2070	im just using it as an example	Dec 08 22:12
schestowitz	Some are optomised	Dec 08 22:12
schestowitz	Why have limitation of no wheels?	Dec 08 22:12
schestowitz	And 4 limbs?	Dec 08 22:12
ender2070	remember, in star wars these clones traveled the universe	Dec 08 22:12
schestowitz	For some combat you want other things, depending on role	Dec 08 22:12
ender2070	and they figured droids were too unreliable	Dec 08 22:13
schestowitz	Einstein asked his parents when his sister was born why she didn't have wheels	Dec 08 22:13
schestowitz	ender2070: the bots are not intended to look like humans	Dec 08 22:13
schestowitz	But either way, I find all that scary	Dec 08 22:13
ender2070	yes	Dec 08 22:13
schestowitz	A little like Terminator, which wasn't too far off	Dec 08 22:13
ender2070	well im not saying war	Dec 08 22:13
_goblin	thats where robots and combat will never work...imo...combat is very much determined (and won) by the human condition.	Dec 08 22:13
ender2070	but	Dec 08 22:13
ender2070	they could genetically engineer humans for other roles	Dec 08 22:14
schestowitz	Would you be more afraid of a piece of metal with wheels and machine guns or a man like you, with ammunition?	Dec 08 22:14
ender2070	Kahn in star trek, genetically engineered with superior intellect and strength	Dec 08 22:14
_goblin	the decision to sacrafice all of the company for the sake of one man rescued...for example...to a machine that would make no sense.	Dec 08 22:15
schestowitz	_goblin: not true, IMHO	Dec 08 22:15
schestowitz	Wars are no longer fought by humans	Dec 08 22:15
schestowitz	Just jets and rockets	Dec 08 22:15
schestowitz	Those are just assisted by men	Dec 08 22:15
schestowitz	Mostly automated	Dec 08 22:15
schestowitz	Even guiding systems	Dec 08 22:15
_goblin	disagree...ground troups are vital...	Dec 08 22:15
schestowitz	Maybe at the end, after destruction	Dec 08 22:15
_goblin	missles may be automated (of sorts) but their targets are not...	Dec 08 22:15
schestowitz	If it's a mayham against 'targeted' people, then yes	Dec 08 22:16
schestowitz	If it's against a nation, there are thermal weapons	Dec 08 22:16
_goblin	ground troups have the rules of engagement to determine further targets...	Dec 08 22:16
schestowitz	That's what's so scary	Dec 08 22:16
schestowitz	Although it's not as bad as in the past where you died by the sword and your family sometimes raped	Dec 08 22:16
schestowitz	_goblin: targeted attacks are the micro-wars	Dec 08 22:17
schestowitz	They are wars on phenomena, not nations	Dec 08 22:17
schestowitz	Like "terrorism"	Dec 08 22:17
schestowitz	Then, when they kill innocent on the path to the "terrorists", they only help recruit more of them	Dec 08 22:18
schestowitz	That's why it's an unwinnable war, IMHO	Dec 08 22:18
_goblin	theres alot of propaganda about war that facilitated by those who seek to discredit the government....The only FUD ive seen in relation to troup engagements has come from those who wish the troops to be withdrawn.	Dec 08 22:18
schestowitz	You think you can kill off the infection/tumour	Dec 08 22:18
schestowitz	But on the way there you only kill live tissue	Dec 08 22:18
schestowitz	So the problem spreads	Dec 08 22:19
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_goblin	a case in point.....the common view is that that ground skirmishes are fought with merely the SA80 and a full magazine.	Dec 08 22:19
schestowitz	See what happens when you try to fight competition viciously	Dec 08 22:19
schestowitz	Even in IT	Dec 08 22:19
schestowitz	Microsoft fighting Linux was not a smart idea... and they drove away many developers and now just borrow money	Dec 08 22:19
ender2070	you can't automate everything its illegal	Dec 08 22:19
ender2070	you need ground troops	Dec 08 22:19
_goblin	completely wrong....bayonet order was used in 1st Iraq conflict more times than anyone cared to admit.	Dec 08 22:20
schestowitz	_goblin: did the troops in Iraq improve your security?	Dec 08 22:20
ender2070	the berne convention disallows unmanned robots	Dec 08 22:20
_goblin	conflict of interest......it would not be fair for me to answer.	Dec 08 22:20
ender2070	the us did sign it	Dec 08 22:20
_goblin	I have loyalties....	Dec 08 22:20
schestowitz	That's a trap	Dec 08 22:21
schestowitz	The moral defense	Dec 08 22:21
ender2070	err not berne	Dec 08 22:21
ender2070	thats copyright	Dec 08 22:21
_goblin	I'll have to be honest there because I can't say I think troops should be withdrawn..	Dec 08 22:21
schestowitz	The threat grew 7-fold	Dec 08 22:21
schestowitz	As expected before the war began	Dec 08 22:21
ender2070	the hague convention	Dec 08 22:21
schestowitz	Vietnam too was eventually abandoned	Dec 08 22:22
ender2070	for once reason	Dec 08 22:22
schestowitz	Not before 2-3 million Vietnamese were dead	Dec 08 22:22
_goblin	what I can say is that the men and women fighting the cause (rightly or wrongly) do so with a couragous disregard for their own safety and a belief that it can be won.	Dec 08 22:22
schestowitz	Yes	Dec 08 22:22
schestowitz	But who do they fight /for/?	Dec 08 22:22
schestowitz	http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2009/12/07/who-wants-war/	Dec 08 22:22
ender2070	unmanned robots allows Plausible deniability	Dec 08 22:23
_goblin	I suppose it comes down to lawful orders. If we are to have an effective army is has to respond without thought or challenge of authority otherwise there is no point....you just have to have faith in your objectives...	Dec 08 22:23
phIRCe-local	Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB	Dec 08 22:23
ender2070	nobody wants war, but at the same time when war does occur you also don't want robots killing innocent people	Dec 08 22:23
schestowitz	The threat of peace has over $500,000,000,000 per YEAR at stake	Dec 08 22:24
schestowitz	_goblin: many atrocities were committed under this premise	Dec 08 22:24
schestowitz	That it's OK to iconify leaders and follow orders	Dec 08 22:24
_goblin	I think there are two sides to this war...one is whether the government is wrong in its decisions...but the real side is that service men and women are fighting it...they are not in a position to say "nope I don't agree, Im off home"	Dec 08 22:25
schestowitz	To truly believe that a utopian order would be brought about by all the actions and peer pressure	Dec 08 22:25
schestowitz	And the history is soon forgotten	Dec 08 22:25
schestowitz	Gore Vidal called it "United States of Amnesia"	Dec 08 22:25
schestowitz	_goblin: there were fabrications	Dec 08 22:26
schestowitz	So whether it was right or wrong is now a different question	Dec 08 22:26
schestowitz	Same when the British invaded Suez tunnel	Dec 08 22:26
ender2070	United States of Eurasia	Dec 08 22:26
schestowitz	Under fake words from "lucky break" or whoever it was that fed rubbish to the PM?	Dec 08 22:26
schestowitz	It became a disaster of intl' proportions	Dec 08 22:26
schestowitz	The Ffrench participated too	Dec 08 22:26
schestowitz	And the Soviets then threatened the UK with nuke	Dec 08 22:27
_goblin	yes but there are fabrications on both sides....the government have you told that the war is right and show troops hidden behind rocks engaging the targets at long range...	Dec 08 22:27
_goblin	the reality is much much worse.	Dec 08 22:27
schestowitz	Yes, I know	Dec 08 22:27
schestowitz	So maybe the lesser of the two evils was better	Dec 08 22:27
_goblin	To say that innocents can get caught up in ground fighting is very wrong....	Dec 08 22:27
schestowitz	I still don't think it was better to play the "if you're not with us, you're with the terrorist" card	Dec 08 22:28
_goblin	since its at such close quarters (or certainly was in the first instance) that is virtually hand to hand in occasion.	Dec 08 22:28
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_goblin	bayonet order, as I say.	Dec 08 22:28
DowisDown	Hey Roy!http://www.surfingtheapocalypse.net/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=233045	Dec 08 22:29
DowisDown	http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/stockmarket/2/default.stm	Dec 08 22:29
phIRCe-local	Title: BBC NEWS \| News Front Page .::. Size~: 85.65 KB	Dec 08 22:29
schestowitz	Hey, DowisDown	Dec 08 22:29
DowisDown	Check out the 12 month price for gold, its almost doubled!	Dec 08 22:29
DowisDown	http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/commodities/143908/twelve_month.stm	Dec 08 22:29
phIRCe-local	Title: BBC NEWS \| News Front Page .::. Size~: 85.65 KB	Dec 08 22:30
DowisDown	Its them pesky Chinese dumping the dollar to invest in something with intrinsic value	Dec 08 22:30
schestowitz	But you have silver	Dec 08 22:30
schestowitz	I suppose you mean 'pesky' in scare quotes	Dec 08 22:31
DowisDown	Allow me....	Dec 08 22:31
DowisDown	http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/commodities/40380/twelve_month.stm	Dec 08 22:31
phIRCe-local	Title: BBC NEWS \| News Front Page .::. Size~: 85.65 KB	Dec 08 22:31
schestowitz	They are just doing what makes economic sense to them	Dec 08 22:31
schestowitz	Politically it never made sense to them	Dec 08 22:31
schestowitz	Not it makes no pragmatic sense, either	Dec 08 22:31
DowisDown	good on em, i'm right behind them	Dec 08 22:31
schestowitz	Cash for Clunkers	Dec 08 22:31
DowisDown	checked out silver yet	Dec 08 22:31
schestowitz	If true, then it's more like "metal for Asia"	Dec 08 22:31
DowisDown	silver has almost doubled too	Dec 08 22:32
schestowitz	OK, makes sense	Dec 08 22:32
DowisDown	when most of the western currencies go down the pan, precious metals will be the backstop position, get em now	Dec 08 22:32
schestowitz	What about corn and wheat?	Dec 08 22:32
schestowitz	"Will work for Yuan"	Dec 08 22:33
schestowitz	My ex-g/f is in China now... :-\|	Dec 08 22:33
DowisDown	Corn is stable, but then when the shockwave hits from last years financial nuke, you wouldn't want to be trading with wheat would you?	Dec 08 22:34
DowisDown	Gold has been an exchange medium for thousands of years	Dec 08 22:34
schestowitz	Yeah	Dec 08 22:35
schestowitz	Well, it's one among many	Dec 08 22:35
schestowitz	Just the most valuable one based on scracity	Dec 08 22:35
DowisDown	strangley copper has more than doubled too	Dec 08 22:36
DowisDown	http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/fds/hi/business/market_data/commodities/11637/twelve_month.stm	Dec 08 22:36
phIRCe-local	Title: BBC NEWS \| News Front Page .::. Size~: 85.82 KB	Dec 08 22:36
schestowitz	<saracsm> unless you trade plutonium or something	Dec 08 22:36
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_goblin	doh.	Dec 08 22:36
DowisDown	http://www.surfingtheapocalypse.net/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=233045	Dec 08 22:37
schestowitz	BTW, DowisDown, turns out Mark is into this area too	Dec 08 22:37
_goblin	Roy...here's one for you....Area 51....conspiracy or mad rant? (its been an interest of mine for a long time)	Dec 08 22:37
schestowitz	I spoke to him today... he knows a lot of science too. You should speak to him	Dec 08 22:37
DowisDown	i don't know what he looks like	Dec 08 22:38
schestowitz	Oh, no alien nonsense, please...	Dec 08 22:38
schestowitz	DowisDown: never mind then..	Dec 08 22:38
DowisDown	have you seen the shrine to mike coogan in the gym, have you paid homage at the feet of mr f	Dec 08 22:38
schestowitz	Yeah, I spat at it :-) :-) I kid, I kid...	Dec 08 22:38
DowisDown	are you coming to the christmas meal?	Dec 08 22:39
schestowitz	Nope	Dec 08 22:39
DowisDown	boring	Dec 08 22:39
schestowitz	Steve ain't coming	Dec 08 22:39
_goblin	how about, America feared China's airforce....what better way to send out a message to China then to pretend you have alien aircraft in your hangers...quite easy to fake....pick on hapless townfolk with a little sfx and before you know it you have a worldwide conspiracy.	Dec 08 22:39
DowisDown	i know	Dec 08 22:39
schestowitz	Running away from someone	Dec 08 22:39
DowisDown	who's he upset now	Dec 08 22:39
schestowitz	Nobody	Dec 08 22:40
schestowitz	I think there's this girl he's afraid of	Dec 08 22:40
DowisDown	is she tasty?	Dec 08 22:40
schestowitz	By Steve's taste, all girls are attractive	Dec 08 22:41
DowisDown	does he fancy her, is he being shy/coy	Dec 08 22:41
schestowitz	But anyway, let's not talk about him	Dec 08 22:41
schestowitz	It's rude and off-topic	Dec 08 22:41
DowisDown	is it vicky	Dec 08 22:41
schestowitz	DowisDown: and well.. neither... he just doesn't know how to handle the situation	Dec 08 22:41
DowisDown	you started it btw:)	Dec 08 22:41
schestowitz	Maybe	Dec 08 22:42
schestowitz	I didn't ask	Dec 08 22:42
DowisDown	good luck to him, it'd do him good	Dec 08 22:42
schestowitz	Let's not talk about people anyway	Dec 08 22:42
DowisDown	i refer you to my post 3 entries previous:)	Dec 08 22:43
schestowitz	http://www.smartphonetoday.com/articles/2009/12/2009-12-7-Nokia-Updates-Qt.html	Dec 08 22:43
schestowitz	DowisDown: I don't read that site	Dec 08 22:43
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schestowitz	I found it to be filled with too much noise to hide the signal the one time I looked	Dec 08 22:44
DowisDown	anyways matey, i am dissapointed you ain't coming to the meal, it will be good, i am goingto the german market first for some hot wine, then to the meal, you might find romance roy	Dec 08 22:44
schestowitz	It's a shame when sane discussion gets drowned up by bad things	Dec 08 22:44
schestowitz	I sometimes think it's intentional	Dec 08 22:44
_goblin	Heres a good counter (in respect of someone trying to claim IE is great)....::	Dec 08 22:44
_goblin	A selection of comments hand picked because they expressed a negative opinion that was similar to your own and a majority of your readers.	Dec 08 22:44
schestowitz	When someone brings up an important subject, then it gets flooded (or "crapflooded") with rubbish to distract and repel	Dec 08 22:45
cubezzz	bah, IE is not great, they just ripped off spyglass	Dec 08 22:45
schestowitz	IE is a great mess to the WWW	Dec 08 22:45
cubezzz	and tried to lock people in as usual	Dec 08 22:45
_goblin	I like the counter though.....he's agreeing that IE is disliked.....but then uses that as a justification that its not...	Dec 08 22:45
schestowitz	Microsoft tried to turn the Internet into Internet Explorer	Dec 08 22:46
_goblin	I thought MS made the internet? ;)	Dec 08 22:46
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schestowitz	The Internet predates Microsoft	Dec 08 22:46
cubezzz	of course	Dec 08 22:46
_goblin	nah...Im sure you're wrong there Roy....	Dec 08 22:46
_goblin	MS made everything	Dec 08 22:47
_goblin	and everyone else copied.	Dec 08 22:47
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_goblin	Just like Juku......so what if it has a 140 char limit.....Twitter copied Juku.	Dec 08 22:48
cubezzz	everyone copied Unix	Dec 08 22:48
cubezzz	and Xerox	Dec 08 22:49
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_goblin	Don't post that on COLA...you would get ALL the Wintrolls come out the woodwork for that one.	Dec 08 22:49
cubezzz	it's true	Dec 08 22:49
cubezzz	and I don't bother with COLA	Dec 08 22:49
cubezzz	sadly usenet is a shadow of it's former self	Dec 08 22:49
_goblin	Im being flippant of course.	Dec 08 22:50
_goblin	and I agree	Dec 08 22:50
cubezzz	usenet used to be very very good	Dec 08 22:50
_goblin	I blame Googlegroups	Dec 08 22:50
cubezzz	well, the internet used to be the domain of the military and academia	Dec 08 22:50
cubezzz	now it's everybody	Dec 08 22:50
_goblin	I remember paying £1 an hour for net access with Compuserve	Dec 08 22:51
cubezzz	we had gopher and wais and ftp before we had www	Dec 08 22:51
cubezzz	Unix had the best design	Dec 08 22:51
schestowitz	http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-source/apple-bans-developer-posting-bogus-reviews-356	Dec 08 22:52
phIRCe-local	Title: Apple bans developer for posting bogus reviews \| Open Source - InfoWorld .::. Size~: 80.31 KB	Dec 08 22:52
_goblin	I never really "hit" the computing scene until the days of the Amiga.	Dec 08 22:52
_goblin	up until then I was a gamer on the Spectrum.	Dec 08 22:52
cubezzz	those were (relatively speaking) early days	Dec 08 22:52
cubezzz	Amiga had one big thing that computers now do not have	Dec 08 22:53
_goblin	ah.......Load "" CODE........."start the tape and press any key"	Dec 08 22:53
cubezzz	standardized hardware	Dec 08 22:53
_goblin	although that was ultimately the death of it...IMO	Dec 08 22:53
cubezzz	_goblin, now you going back to Commodore PET :)	Dec 08 22:53
cubezzz	Amiga had a real operating system	Dec 08 22:53
_goblin	whilst PCs were playing Wolfenstien and waiting for Quake....Amiga had come to the realization that texture maping was not really decent even with the A1200 AGA chipset.	Dec 08 22:54
cubezzz	although I've forgotten a lot about it	Dec 08 22:54
_goblin	2d wise though the Amiga could not be beat!	Dec 08 22:54
cubezzz	A1200 was pretty slow though	Dec 08 22:54
cubezzz	what was it 14 mhz?	Dec 08 22:55
_goblin	think so...a500 was 7.9 ???	Dec 08 22:55
_goblin	for some reason 14.9 is springing to mind...	Dec 08 22:55
cubezzz	yeah, but those coprocessors made a huge difference	Dec 08 22:55
cubezzz	no, 7.16 for NTSC and 7.09 for PAL	Dec 08 22:56
_goblin	I have a SF2 machine in my outhouse! based on the same 68k processor as the Amiga I believe.	Dec 08 22:56
_goblin	that sounds better!	Dec 08 22:56
cubezzz	so do I _goblin :)	Dec 08 22:57
_goblin	unfortunately mines a fake....	Dec 08 22:57
cubezzz	I have 2 boards, sf2 ce and sf2 hyperfighting	Dec 08 22:57
cubezzz	and Joust, and Ataxx, and Blockout	Dec 08 22:57
_goblin	The one machine which I would love would be Dragons Lair....	Dec 08 22:57
_goblin	original lazer disk cabinet.	Dec 08 22:58
cubezzz	Ataxx was Intel 80186	Dec 08 22:58
cubezzz	Joust was Intel 8085	Dec 08 22:58
cubezzz	I think Blockout was Motorola 68000	Dec 08 22:58
_goblin	you used MAME>	Dec 08 22:59
cubezzz	no, that's from memory :)	Dec 08 22:59
_goblin	very impressive...if you are a retro Arcade buff its worth looking at.	Dec 08 22:59
_goblin	I am partial to a game of Marvel V SF every so often.	Dec 08 23:00
cubezzz	I'm a long time arcade aficionado	Dec 08 23:00
cubezzz	although now I don't play much these days	Dec 08 23:00
cubezzz	oh I did some MAME programming too	Dec 08 23:00
_goblin	lol...	Dec 08 23:00
_goblin	sorry....	Dec 08 23:00
_goblin	I shouldn't have assumed you wouldn't have heard of MAME then!	Dec 08 23:01
cubezzz	I helped with Blockout a little	Dec 08 23:01
_goblin	So you know quite a bit about it!	Dec 08 23:01
cubezzz	I remember the very first version of MAME	Dec 08 23:01
_goblin	such a great project.	Dec 08 23:01
cubezzz	and David Spicer's earliest emu	Dec 08 23:01
_goblin	was that a 68k altered beast emu?	Dec 08 23:02
cubezzz	yes, I still have a few MAME web pages too	Dec 08 23:02
cubezzz	no, it was Space Invaders	Dec 08 23:02
_goblin	ah..Im thinking of someone else.	Dec 08 23:02
_goblin	been playing Spectrum games on the DS...the speccy emu is very impressive!	Dec 08 23:03
_goblin	so is the genesis one.	Dec 08 23:03
cubezzz	http://cubeman.org/mame1.html	Dec 08 23:04
phIRCe-local	Title: High Scores for MAME .::. Size~: 3.78 KB	Dec 08 23:04
cubezzz	that is very old	Dec 08 23:04
_goblin	the problem is, I have so many interests its hard to dedicate much time to any of them...	Dec 08 23:04
schestowitz	Jack of all trades...	Dec 08 23:04
schestowitz	...master of none.	Dec 08 23:04
_goblin	damn...you got there before me.	Dec 08 23:04
cubezzz	prioritize :)	Dec 08 23:05
_goblin	I wish I could....	Dec 08 23:05
_goblin	I was thinking this time last year I had only really started getting serious about my blog....	Dec 08 23:05
_goblin	it was not my intention to start one.	Dec 08 23:06
_goblin	I was spending time on the net for a wholly different reason	Dec 08 23:06
cubezzz	what is most important? start with that	Dec 08 23:06
_goblin	and thats the problem...I don't start something if I don't deem it important and therefore all my "loves" are equal.	Dec 08 23:07
cubezzz	the problem with MAME is that it's become very slow	Dec 08 23:07
_goblin	Ive not looked at recent vers....	Dec 08 23:07
cubezzz	well, I don't play much arcade any more	Dec 08 23:07
_goblin	believe it or not Ive only emulated the PCB's I actually own.	Dec 08 23:07
cubezzz	my Linux work stuff is more important	Dec 08 23:07
cubezzz	I have no reason to disbelieve you	Dec 08 23:08
_goblin	I wouldn't believe it if someone else said that.	Dec 08 23:08
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-BNc/#boycottnovell-[popey] Reinstalling #ubuntu on my Acer Revo ION device. Hoping the hanging stops. Hasn't hung yet from a vanilla install. Fingers crossed.		Dec 08 23:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Daily Mail editor Paul Dacre's pay hits £1.64m - So THAT's why news media can't make a profit online http://tinyurl.com/ycgr253		Dec 08 23:09
_goblin	but well done for your MAME work...its nice to see the classics get preserved in some form.	Dec 08 23:09
cubezzz	I can't take much credit for it, but I helped a little	Dec 08 23:09
_goblin	Cubezz: what projects are you working on currently?	Dec 08 23:09
cubezzz	3d engine, puzzles, and porting stuff to Linux	Dec 08 23:10
_goblin	were you not tempted to help with the AROS project? (since I assume like me you are an Amiga lover)	Dec 08 23:11
cubezzz	no, but I thought about getting a real amiga again	Dec 08 23:11
_goblin	I was considering getting a A4000 from ebay....	Dec 08 23:12
cubezzz	yes that is tempting	Dec 08 23:12
_goblin	but with Xmas, Ive other things to get first....	Dec 08 23:13
_goblin	like a rocking horse...	Dec 08 23:13
_goblin	better make that clear......for my young lad...(1.5 years)	Dec 08 23:13
cubezzz	I have good ideas, I usually write them down then return to it later	Dec 08 23:13
cubezzz	still learning to program on zaurus	Dec 08 23:14
cubezzz	for me Linux has replaced AmigaDOS	Dec 08 23:14
_goblin	Id say thats true for me...(in that Im starting to feel the same way about it)	Dec 08 23:15
cubezzz	the weird thing is the zaurus scene itself is kind of dead	Dec 08 23:15
cubezzz	Linux is where the action is these days	Dec 08 23:15
cubezzz	of course you could buy an Amiga 4000 and put Linux on it	Dec 08 23:16
cubezzz	what is happening is too much feature creep	Dec 08 23:17
_goblin	One thing I forget about the amiga......playing games with 1 firebutton.....how on earth did we cope?	Dec 08 23:17
cubezzz	so you have to get back into older Linux to get it to fit	Dec 08 23:17
cubezzz	older games had simple controls	Dec 08 23:17
_goblin	and no mousewheel.......sitting in front of a CRT box...playing Dungeon Master for hours....	Dec 08 23:18
cubezzz	and we had the mouse of course	Dec 08 23:18
_goblin	god the amiga mouse was clunky (in hindsight)	Dec 08 23:18
cubezzz	I'm still using CRTs :)	Dec 08 23:18
_goblin	good effort!	Dec 08 23:19
cubezzz	along with LCD	Dec 08 23:19
_goblin	I suppose my cabinet counts as one....	Dec 08 23:19
cubezzz	I could get into Amiga 4000 and do Linux I think	Dec 08 23:19
_goblin	68040 wasn't it?	Dec 08 23:20
cubezzz	never really mastered programmed the 500	Dec 08 23:20
_goblin	ah....the devpac 2 days...	Dec 08 23:20
cubezzz	it was 030 and 040 both	Dec 08 23:20
_goblin	When I was home I would sit for weeks reading and learning....	Dec 08 23:20
cubezzz	25 Mhz :)	Dec 08 23:21
_goblin	its ironic that I have such a love of computers but yet never had a job which fostered that love...	Dec 08 23:21
cubezzz	even my old sl-5500 is 200 Mhz but ARM based, so hard to compare	Dec 08 23:21
cubezzz	no fpu on the sl-5500	Dec 08 23:22
cubezzz	really? That is a bit odd	Dec 08 23:22
_goblin	infact both my jobs have been as far removed from computers as you can get....I must admit now, I envy all the people here who work in IT....	Dec 08 23:22
cubezzz	All my jobs were in the computer industry	Dec 08 23:22
_goblin	I helped a family business....but that was for free and when I was waiting to go away....	Dec 08 23:22
cubezzz	it's a miracle I don't need glasses	Dec 08 23:23
cubezzz	work is work though	Dec 08 23:23
_goblin	true....	Dec 08 23:23
cubezzz	you can get bored of any job	Dec 08 23:23
_goblin	I sometimes think the worst think you can do with a hobby is turn it into a job.	Dec 08 23:23
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_goblin	*thing	Dec 08 23:23
cubezzz	all my hobbies are jobs as well :)	Dec 08 23:24
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_goblin	Im just saying that to make myself feel better!	Dec 08 23:24
cubezzz	I met some of the emu guys	Dec 08 23:25
cubezzz	in person	Dec 08 23:25
_goblin	having said that, whilst I don't work in IT and never had, I would guess I had use of some exotic systems that nobody here has.....	Dec 08 23:25
cubezzz	some were very extreme people	Dec 08 23:25
cubezzz	very very dedicated	Dec 08 23:25
_goblin	I met Romeo Knight (of Red Sector fame) at a demoscene party.	Dec 08 23:26
_goblin	very nice guy.	Dec 08 23:26
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Man goes to state Supreme Court to fight really bad traffic ticket and wins against #douchebag cop and judge(s) http://ur1.ca/hdno #hero		Dec 08 23:26
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Google may in fact support #Bush #terrorism, this is bad http://ur1.ca/hdnr		Dec 08 23:26
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Netflix cleared in bogus patent troll case http://ur1.ca/hdnt		Dec 08 23:26
phIRCe-local	Title: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story \| Google CEO Says Privacy Worries Are For Wrongdoers .::. Size~: 177.08 KB	Dec 08 23:26
cubezzz	I talked to one of the guys who worked on Tron	Dec 08 23:26
phIRCe-local	Title: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story \| DVD-by-Mail Services Cleared In Patent Troll Case .::. Size~: 136.77 KB	Dec 08 23:26
_goblin	nice!	Dec 08 23:26
cubezzz	can't even remember who now	Dec 08 23:27
_goblin	I was blown away at the time by that!	Dec 08 23:27
cubezzz	yes, I was working out the mathematics of the bit character	Dec 08 23:27
cubezzz	and I was talking about the kind of computers they used	Dec 08 23:27
cubezzz	Foley System it was called	Dec 08 23:27
_goblin	Going back to what you were saying before, Ive just educated myself a little with Zaurus	Dec 08 23:28
cubezzz	oh? which one(s)?	Dec 08 23:28
_goblin	(as in finding out what it was without making myself look silly by asking)	Dec 08 23:29
_goblin	Sharp	Dec 08 23:29
_goblin	I assume you are talking about the PDA?	Dec 08 23:29
cubezzz	yes, I mean which model(s) of zaurus are you working with?	Dec 08 23:30
_goblin	no...im not...I was looking at what Zaurus was....	Dec 08 23:30
_goblin	I didn't know.	Dec 08 23:30
cubezzz	oh, right :)	Dec 08 23:30
cubezzz	well you can get a sl-5500 cheap on ebay of course	Dec 08 23:31
_goblin	I was trying to preserve dignity at the time and researching it whilst we were talking!	Dec 08 23:31
_goblin	they say confession is good for the soul.	Dec 08 23:31
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] 802.11 will start working on gigabit 2012... N final spec hardware isn't even out yet! http://ur1.ca/hdo1		Dec 08 23:31
phIRCe-local	Title: IEEE will push next 802.11 to 1Gbps speeds, two-letter designations in 2012 -- Engadget .::. Size~: 225.44 KB	Dec 08 23:31
cubezzz	sorry, I made a mistake, it was Foonly not Foley	Dec 08 23:32
_goblin	you're thinking about Mick Foley the wrestler since there was a WWE discussion earlier??? ;)	Dec 08 23:32
cubezzz	no, I don't know anything about WWE	Dec 08 23:33
cubezzz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foonly	Dec 08 23:33
phIRCe-local	Title: Foonly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 29.64 KB	Dec 08 23:33
_goblin	lol...just pulling your leg.....earlier today Boycott Novell became #Wrestlingchat for a few minutes......	Dec 08 23:33
cubezzz	it was a while ago	Dec 08 23:34
cubezzz	usually my memory is pretty good	Dec 08 23:34
_goblin	Mine tends to be rather like the A500 running WB.....partial to being "leaky" on occasion.	Dec 08 23:35
cubezzz	when Tron came out in 1982 (yes, a loong time ago) I think all I had was a vic-20	Dec 08 23:35
cubezzz	;-)	Dec 08 23:35
_goblin	I think I was Spectrum....or very nearly anyway.	Dec 08 23:36
cubezzz	with a mighty 176 x 184 video	Dec 08 23:36
cubezzz	the zaurus sl-5500 does 240x320 with 65536 colours	Dec 08 23:36
cubezzz	so emulating a vic-20 shouldn't be a problem	Dec 08 23:37
_goblin	Ah the speccy days....and in 1982 listening to Bucks Fizz and "Land of Make Believe"	Dec 08 23:37
_goblin	I can feel a retro moment coming on.	Dec 08 23:37
cubezzz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux-powered_devices	Dec 08 23:41
phIRCe-local	Title: List of Linux-powered devices - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 197 KB	Dec 08 23:41
cubezzz	not much Linux stuff in Canada in the stores I'm sorry to say	Dec 08 23:42
_goblin	same in the Uk (in respect of the highstreet shops)	Dec 08 23:43
cubezzz	schestowitz tells me you guys have some ARM based stuff in the stores in the UK	Dec 08 23:43
_goblin	to be fair Ive only been to our local comet and our choice is limited there.	Dec 08 23:43
cubezzz	no linux devices at all?	Dec 08 23:43
_goblin	not in that store.	Dec 08 23:44
_goblin	nr Luton (Bedfordshire)	Dec 08 23:44
cubezzz	Leapfrog is Linux based :)	Dec 08 23:44
_goblin	Leapfrog?	Dec 08 23:45
cubezzz	and here's your christmas present:	Dec 08 23:46
cubezzz	http://cgi.ebay.com/Amiga-4000-Tower-A4000_W0QQitemZ280433653216QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item414b25f5e0	Dec 08 23:46
phIRCe-local	Title: Amiga 4000 Tower A4000 - eBay (item 280433653216 end time Dec-11-09 08:20:16 PST) .::. Size~: 52.24 KB	Dec 08 23:46
schestowitz	Is there a good list/details about what's in Chrome and not in Chromium? One site says final is out, this one says just beta: http://channel.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=21529	Dec 08 23:46
phIRCe-local	Title: Google releases Chrome beta for Mac and Linux :: HEXUS.channel - Essential IT business intelligence .::. Size~: 22.82 KB	Dec 08 23:46
_goblin	a bit of a trip if I want to collect....he doesnt ship outside US.	Dec 08 23:46
cubezzz	ah :-/	Dec 08 23:47
cubezzz	leapfrog is an educational toy	Dec 08 23:47
cubezzz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leapfrog_Enterprises	Dec 08 23:48
phIRCe-local	Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB	Dec 08 23:48
cubezzz	yeah I'm not up on Chrome or Chromium stuff	Dec 08 23:48
cubezzz	sometimes you don't even know you are using Linux	Dec 08 23:49
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_goblin	I love the Chromium project.	Dec 08 23:49
_goblin	its such a great browser	Dec 08 23:49
_goblin	filed a bug yesterday...	Dec 08 23:49
_goblin	today its sorted.	Dec 08 23:49
cubezzz	do the svn thing :)	Dec 08 23:50
_goblin	Been using Skymap.org today too....very interesting...	Dec 08 23:51
_goblin	and learnt what a Quasar is!	Dec 08 23:51
cubezzz	there's Chrome OS and Chromium OS, hmmm	Dec 08 23:52
cubezzz	so is Chrome OS closed source then?	Dec 08 23:53
cubezzz	no, they're both open	Dec 08 23:53
cubezzz	I guess it's a bit like Fedora and Red Hat or something	Dec 08 23:54
_goblin	i though chromium - Chrome was like openSUSE - SUSE	Dec 08 23:54
schestowitz	Microsoft Paul: "It's out for Linux now. And that gives me the same uneasy feeling I always get when I boot up a copy of Linux or use one of the million C-like programming languages out there today: I see something that's familiar but wrong. I just don't get it." http://windowsitpro.com/windowspaulthurrott/article/articleid/103249/wininfo-short-takes-week-of-december-7-2009.html	Dec 08 23:54
phIRCe-local	Title: WinInfo Short Takes: Week of December 7, 2009 .::. Size~: 22.65 KB	Dec 08 23:54
schestowitz	_goblin: is Chrome final for Linux?	Dec 08 23:55
_goblin	no..	Dec 08 23:55
schestowitz	I see conttadictory articles	Dec 08 23:55
schestowitz	One says final, another says beta	Dec 08 23:55
schestowitz	_goblin: watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cJlJudDtVE&feature=related	Dec 08 23:55
_goblin	I don't believe it is.....I could be wrong though.	Dec 08 23:55
schestowitz	"Once you take the plunge, a full Windows 7 installation takes around 30 minutes on a modern PC. That’s not as fast as some Linux distributions — especially considering so little software is included — but it’s not too long to wait." http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/12/09/windows-7-review-1/	Dec 08 23:56
phIRCe-local	Title: Windows 7: the First Month Review, Part 1 .::. Size~: 47.36 KB	Dec 08 23:56
cubezzz	I'm just going to stick with the Linux I know	Dec 08 23:56
cubezzz	ahem, allow me to speak about windows 7	Dec 08 23:56
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Lieberman is a #douchebag http://ur1.ca/hdq0 #politics		Dec 08 23:56
cubezzz	it's pretty slow, and it's very bloated	Dec 08 23:56
cubezzz	comparing Fedora 11 to Windows 7 is a big difference	Dec 08 23:57
cubezzz	I tried both on the exact same machine a couple of days ago	Dec 08 23:57
cubezzz	plus I had some trouble with the mbr with the two OSes on the same physical hard drive	Dec 08 23:57
cubezzz	especially on the AMD TF-20 it was slooow	Dec 08 23:59
cubezzz	nothing appealing about it, from 1st hand experience	Dec 08 23:59

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