IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: December 27th, 2009

schestowitz	<reverend>IRC is just multiplayer notepad.	Dec 27 00:08
schestowitz	:-)	Dec 27 00:08
cubezzz	this is interesting too	Dec 27 00:09
cubezzz	it could be that many of you don't remember the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty	Dec 27 00:10
cubezzz	"Russian Federation President Vladimir Putin declared that the INF Treaty no longer serves Russia's interests. On February 14, ITAR-Tass and Interfax quoted General Yuri Baluyevsky, the Russian military's chief of general staff, as saying that Russia could pull out of the INF,"	Dec 27 00:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Thanks to Clogwowg, I have removed all instances of MS Windows on all my machines and will not any longer help people with Windows!		Dec 27 00:10
cubezzz	;-)	Dec 27 00:11
cubezzz	you johnny come latelys	Dec 27 00:11
cubezzz	I was beaking off about Microsoft in the 80's ;-)	Dec 27 00:11
schestowitz	Nuclear wars are still the biggest threat	Dec 27 00:12
schestowitz	Not computer OSes	Dec 27 00:12
schestowitz	Environment is maybe second	Dec 27 00:12
schestowitz	"When you see the flash, duck!"	Dec 27 00:12
cubezzz	I can't argue with that	Dec 27 00:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @ml2mst high five!		Dec 27 00:12
schestowitz	Like they used to tell kids in the Cold War	Dec 27 00:12
cubezzz	yeah, that will really help a lot :)	Dec 27 00:12
schestowitz	That's what I thought	Dec 27 00:13
schestowitz	But if you see the flash, better duck than not	Dec 27 00:13
cubezzz	it's almost a miracle we didn't have any accidents	Dec 27 00:13
schestowitz	We did	Dec 27 00:13
cubezzz	when was that?	Dec 27 00:14
schestowitz	About 30 years ago they almost fired a whole exchange	Dec 27 00:14
schestowitz	A nuclear Soviet vessel was gonna launch	Dec 27 00:14
cubezzz	Cuban Missile Crisis wasn't really an "accident"	Dec 27 00:14
schestowitz	It only came out 1-2 years ago in declassified documents	Dec 27 00:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @ml2mst Hi Marti! Hope you are having a great Xmas! Best of wishes... Goblin.		Dec 27 00:14
cubezzz	so what happened? Obviously he didn't launch	Dec 27 00:15
cubezzz	you have any links?	Dec 27 00:15
schestowitz	Also, in 95, over Norway there was a detection of a missile that almost invoke the automated antiquated systems, which were 2 minutes from firing	Dec 27 00:15
schestowitz	cubezzz: third submarine commander vetoed	Dec 27 00:15
schestowitz	They were under attack by US ship	Dec 27 00:15
cubezzz	schestowitz, but the fact remains we _did not_ have an accidental launch, correct?	Dec 27 00:16
schestowitz	I don't know why it didn't get much coverage when it was made publicly accessible	Dec 27 00:16
schestowitz	cubezzz: accidental detections	Dec 27 00:16
schestowitz	And Hiroshima	Dec 27 00:16
cubezzz	not an accident	Dec 27 00:16
cubezzz	Hiroshima was quite deliberate	Dec 27 00:16
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz Thanks ;-) No more excuses, Windows is dead (at least for me)		Dec 27 00:16
cubezzz	I'm trying to figure out if the Russians pulled out of INF or not	Dec 27 00:17
schestowitz	cubezzz: accident in judgement	Dec 27 00:17
cubezzz	we don't seem to hear about nuclear weapons much in the news	Dec 27 00:17
schestowitz	For example:	Dec 27 00:17
schestowitz	Albert Einstein wrote a letter to the president endorsing research on building The Bomb	Dec 27 00:18
cubezzz	yes	Dec 27 00:18
schestowitz	He regretted this only after the human sacrifices	Dec 27 00:18
schestowitz	He wasn't part of Project Manhattan though.	Dec 27 00:18
schestowitz	[00:17] <cubezzz> we don't seem to hear about nuclear weapons much in the news	Dec 27 00:18
schestowitz	That's what kind of worries me	Dec 27 00:18
schestowitz	Keeping scary press out, unless they need to dethrone Saddam	Dec 27 00:19
schestowitz	"..could come in the form of a mushroom cloud..."	Dec 27 00:19
cubezzz	I wonder if the older nukes still work :)	Dec 27 00:19
cubezzz	hopefully not	Dec 27 00:19
schestowitz	Why wouldn't they?	Dec 27 00:19
schestowitz	Even if they get buried, it's symbolic	Dec 27 00:20
schestowitz	And they can refine them underwater where the treaties don't apply	Dec 27 00:20
schestowitz	The Brits have them... the French, US, China, India, Pakistan, Israel....	Dec 27 00:20
schestowitz	Non-proliferation was a non-starter	Dec 27 00:21
schestowitz	China still has an underground city	Dec 27 00:21
schestowitz	Here in Manchester we have underground tunnels from back in the days	Dec 27 00:21
cubezzz	that stuff about "stop duck and cover" they don't bother with that	Dec 27 00:22
cubezzz	that's like the 50's	Dec 27 00:22
schestowitz	Yes	Dec 27 00:23
cubezzz	so how long since Hiroshima?	Dec 27 00:23
schestowitz	The bombs then were 'babies'	Dec 27 00:23
cubezzz	it's been a while	Dec 27 00:23
cubezzz	over 1/2 century of not using nukes	Dec 27 00:23
schestowitz	Less megatons=less radiation(cancer) and destruction	Dec 27 00:23
schestowitz	cubezzz: before that we had none	Dec 27 00:24
cubezzz	it's stupid when you think about it, even for a Hawk	Dec 27 00:24
schestowitz	I guess the surprise is that they did a real-world experiment as soon as they had it	Dec 27 00:24
cubezzz	wouldn't a Hawk want a bomb that just kills people but doesn't destroy their buildings?	Dec 27 00:24
schestowitz	And thereafter there was more brutal oppression, esp. in South America	Dec 27 00:24
schestowitz	cubezzz: biological warfare	Dec 27 00:25
schestowitz	That's advanced too	Dec 27 00:25
schestowitz	A lot more than before	Dec 27 00:25
schestowitz	More painful in some ways	Dec 27 00:25
schestowitz	With better understanding of science there's this cost	Dec 27 00:25
schestowitz	Smarter=more civilised and more lethal	Dec 27 00:25
schestowitz	Apparently there is too much disinformation about "dirty bombs"	Dec 27 00:26
cubezzz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_bomb	Dec 27 00:26
phIRCe-local	Title: Neutron bomb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 41.18 KB	Dec 27 00:26
schestowitz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_bomb	Dec 27 00:30
phIRCe-local	Title: Logic bomb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 35.99 KB	Dec 27 00:30
schestowitz	More scary to geeks ^	Dec 27 00:30
cubezzz	well things should be better with the dissolution of the USSR	Dec 27 00:30
cubezzz	"hackers" really aren't very smart most of the time	Dec 27 00:31
cubezzz	the attacks on me are ineffectual	Dec 27 00:31
schestowitz	Russia is an issue because of the age of the system	Dec 27 00:33
schestowitz	People may not realise this, but their systems are not modern and too rusty to handle the arsenal	Dec 27 00:34
schestowitz	So the risk is not idealogical only; there is the incidental issue of accidental trigger	Dec 27 00:34
schestowitz	It can be Pakistan too, triggering a chain reaction	Dec 27 00:34
schestowitz	Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT96sgTwmvo	Dec 27 00:35
schestowitz	Bear in mind it's a hard film to watch. Resonates for days	Dec 27 00:36
cubezzz	basically I am an optimist	Dec 27 00:36
schestowitz	What is an optimist really?	Dec 27 00:37
cubezzz	I am an optimist, I believe that things are on the whole, improving and not becoming worse	Dec 27 00:38
schestowitz	You could define that laterally. We are predictive animals in our minds	Dec 27 00:38
cubezzz	consider this:	Dec 27 00:38
schestowitz	All we do is based on models of predictions we build and refine	Dec 27 00:38
schestowitz	Too fearful is bad	Dec 27 00:38
cubezzz	if you think you can, usually you can	Dec 27 00:38
schestowitz	Cause it prevents taking any risk	Dec 27 00:38
cubezzz	if you think you can't, you won't even try	Dec 27 00:38
schestowitz	And optimists have a model that assumes low risk	Dec 27 00:38
schestowitz	Assume trust	Dec 27 00:38
cubezzz	no, it's beyond that	Dec 27 00:38
cubezzz	it's mind = reality almost	Dec 27 00:38
cubezzz	or to some degree	Dec 27 00:39
schestowitz	SOme things improve, some get worse	Dec 27 00:39
cubezzz	like what Stallman did	Dec 27 00:39
schestowitz	But it's POV-based	Dec 27 00:39
schestowitz	In the minds of some people our culture may seem disgusting	Dec 27 00:39
schestowitz	Likewise:	Dec 27 00:39
cubezzz	Stallman wanted a Free OS, and he helped created it, it happened	Dec 27 00:39
schestowitz	Our culture of very thin women may be repugnant to them	Dec 27 00:39
schestowitz	It's context-based	Dec 27 00:39
cubezzz	yes	Dec 27 00:39
cubezzz	it's not healthy	Dec 27 00:40
cubezzz	and it's not _my_ culture :)	Dec 27 00:40
schestowitz	RMS is a success story	Dec 27 00:40
schestowitz	How many like RMS didn't achieve their goals?	Dec 27 00:40
schestowitz	99% of them?	Dec 27 00:40
cubezzz	I never said "hey women should be very skinny"	Dec 27 00:40
schestowitz	More?	Dec 27 00:40
schestowitz	You only hear selectively of the good, not the bad	Dec 27 00:40
cubezzz	possible, it takes a lot of effort	Dec 27 00:40
schestowitz	That's the nature of press	Dec 27 00:41
cubezzz	he didn't suceed immediately	Dec 27 00:41
schestowitz	Those who succeed thrive and live to write their story	Dec 27 00:41
cubezzz	succeed	Dec 27 00:41
schestowitz	Not those who went broke trying	Dec 27 00:41
schestowitz	Or those crushed or assassinated	Dec 27 00:41
cubezzz	you don't hear the bad? I hear the bad all the time :)	Dec 27 00:41
schestowitz	African slaves were freer in Africa	Dec 27 00:41
schestowitz	So you could argue that only now they regain freedom rather than gain some	Dec 27 00:41
schestowitz	And the West is still colonising Africa	Dec 27 00:42
schestowitz	Stealing their resources mostly	Dec 27 00:42
schestowitz	There was this girl in my school whose dad became rich from fishery in Nigeria	Dec 27 00:43
schestowitz	He committed suicide before I finished school	Dec 27 00:43
schestowitz	Maybe some people see it closely... the impact of their actuions	Dec 27 00:43
schestowitz	Gates does the Monsanto travesty	Dec 27 00:43
schestowitz	He also helps the stealing of Nigeria oil, ironically in the hands of Nigerian kids who suffocate doing it and get Polio	Dec 27 00:44
schestowitz	These are the mostly-untold stories	Dec 27 00:44
cubezzz	that sounds like the movie I saw	Dec 27 00:44
schestowitz	How much does the press talk about our use of Africa as garbage dump for electronic waste, for example?	Dec 27 00:44
cubezzz	with Roddy McDowell	Dec 27 00:44
schestowitz	I guess...	Dec 27 00:44
schestowitz	And that's a supposition	Dec 27 00:44
schestowitz	That no journos want to go to Africa	Dec 27 00:45
cubezzz	yeah where are all the old TVs going to go?	Dec 27 00:45
cubezzz	that's a lot of TVs	Dec 27 00:45
schestowitz	And recently there was that Antigra [spelling] incident that poisoned and killed many in the Ivory Coast (IIRC)	Dec 27 00:45
schestowitz	UK-based	Dec 27 00:45
schestowitz	Little reporting	Dec 27 00:45
schestowitz	Then the company gagged the press	Dec 27 00:45
schestowitz	It took Wikileaks to do it	Dec 27 00:45
schestowitz	The BBC took down the articles due to legal threats from those bullies	Dec 27 00:46
schestowitz	cubezzz: we "donate" those TVs to Africa	Dec 27 00:46
schestowitz	That's the story told	Dec 27 00:46
schestowitz	The euphemism	Dec 27 00:46
schestowitz	It's like when you tell a kid that his dead doggy goes to heaven	Dec 27 00:46
cubezzz	Antigua?	Dec 27 00:46
schestowitz	Or that grandma went to the "man upstairs"	Dec 27 00:46
schestowitz	cubezzz: yeah	Dec 27 00:47
cubezzz	West Indies, right	Dec 27 00:47
schestowitz	ANd then there's Du Punt	Dec 27 00:47
schestowitz	They killed thousands of Indians IIRC	Dec 27 00:47
schestowitz	The "yes man" recently did a job on them!	Dec 27 00:47
schestowitz	Brilliant	Dec 27 00:47
schestowitz	*yes mEN	Dec 27 00:47
cubezzz	polymers are a problem	Dec 27 00:47
schestowitz	YEah	Dec 27 00:48
schestowitz	That's why it's sent away	Dec 27 00:48
schestowitz	Reduce risk	Dec 27 00:48
schestowitz	No regulation	Dec 27 00:48
schestowitz	Keep press away	Dec 27 00:48
schestowitz	Keep the population unable to sue (no money, means)	Dec 27 00:48
cubezzz	Antigua looks really nice actually	Dec 27 00:49
schestowitz	Oh wait..	Dec 27 00:49
schestowitz	We might be talking about s/t else	Dec 27 00:49
schestowitz	http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6354149	Dec 27 00:50
phIRCe-local	Title: Ivory Coast Tragedy Exposes Toxic Flow to Poor : NPR .::. Size~: 55.24 KB	Dec 27 00:50
schestowitz	Trafigura	Dec 27 00:50
cubezzz	checking	Dec 27 00:50
cubezzz	yeah I listen to npr via wbfo (I think it's wbfo)	Dec 27 00:51
cubezzz	right, we were talking about two different places :)	Dec 27 00:52
cubezzz	Cuba is actually a place I'd like to visit	Dec 27 00:52
cubezzz	Trafigura sounds like an evil company	Dec 27 00:53
cubezzz	sorry, two different things :)	Dec 27 00:53
cubezzz	totally different	Dec 27 00:53
cubezzz	schestowitz, are you a history student?	Dec 27 00:53
cubezzz	I've always wondered what was Africa like say 200 years ago?	Dec 27 00:54
cubezzz	were people starving back then?	Dec 27 00:54
schestowitz	cubezzz: Yes, Cuba seems nice	Dec 27 00:54
schestowitz	I've been watching some videos about its history	Dec 27 00:54
schestowitz	I can see why the old US regime detested it	Dec 27 00:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux Desktop: Already a Victor http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2009-12-25-001-35-OP-BZ-0002		Dec 27 00:54
phIRCe-local	Title: Linux Today - Linux Vendors Need To Get Off the Stick to Compete with Windows .::. Size~: 77.05 KB	Dec 27 00:54
schestowitz	cubezzz: no, I never studies proper history	Dec 27 00:55
schestowitz	cubezzz: Africa has scarce record of history	Dec 27 00:55
schestowitz	Illiteracy and all	Dec 27 00:55
schestowitz	There is the best fossil record there, like the Missing Link	Dec 27 00:55
cubezzz	ok, this looks interesting	Dec 27 00:56
schestowitz	I think some of the earliest paintings (Ox in a cave) are from Spain or something	Dec 27 00:56
cubezzz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ColonialAfrica.png	Dec 27 00:56
phIRCe-local	Title: File:ColonialAfrica.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 52.36 KB	Dec 27 00:56
schestowitz	I watched this 100 people show since Friday	Dec 27 00:56
cubezzz	how Africa got carved up	Dec 27 00:56
schestowitz	What I found amusing was Columbus "discovering America" thing	Dec 27 00:56
schestowitz	That's a Western perspective	Dec 27 00:56
schestowitz	It was discovered long beforehand and had Inca culture	Dec 27 00:56
cubezzz	Columbus was clueless	Dec 27 00:56
schestowitz	Some of the most advanced at understanding the cosmos	Dec 27 00:56
schestowitz	Iraq too	Dec 27 00:57
schestowitz	Now it's assume the ownership of Europeans	Dec 27 00:57
schestowitz	cubezzz: Columbus was very ruthless	Dec 27 00:57
schestowitz	Slaughterer	Dec 27 00:57
schestowitz	Denounced even by royalty for it	Dec 27 00:57
schestowitz	I think the Dutch were considered more peaceful explorers	Dec 27 00:57
cubezzz	basically Africa got the shaft big-time	Dec 27 00:57
schestowitz	It's amazing that Portugal was once an empire	Dec 27 00:58
cubezzz	Europeans took it over, I never realized how bad it was	Dec 27 00:58
schestowitz	And Greece, Turkey, Mongolia	Dec 27 00:58
schestowitz	Mongolian hordes owned half the known Earth	Dec 27 00:58
schestowitz	Largest empire ever to exist	Dec 27 00:58
cubezzz	now we have the Microsoft hordes :)	Dec 27 00:58
schestowitz	Naa...	Dec 27 00:58
schestowitz	that's "small time"	Dec 27 00:59
schestowitz	People still use people like Jobs and Gates to symbolise" computing	Dec 27 00:59
cubezzz	90% of the world's PCs is small time?	Dec 27 00:59
schestowitz	Rather than Babbage and Turing	Dec 27 00:59
schestowitz	Even Tom Kilburn	Dec 27 00:59
cubezzz	it's a 21st century "horde"	Dec 27 00:59
schestowitz	cubezzz: it's not	Dec 27 00:59
schestowitz	desktops != computers	Dec 27 00:59
schestowitz	That's their fallacy	Dec 27 00:59
schestowitz	They want to redefine computers	Dec 27 00:59
schestowitz	ANd call the rest, I dunno....	Dec 27 01:00
schestowitz	Phones only get /more/ advanced	Dec 27 01:00
schestowitz	N900 does COmpiz and all.....	Dec 27 01:00
cubezzz	computers are changing	Dec 27 01:00
cubezzz	the phone does compiz	Dec 27 01:00
*cubezzz shakes his head		Dec 27 01:00
schestowitz	They do more	Dec 27 01:01
schestowitz	Zooming, voice dictation, connectivity, VoIP...	Dec 27 01:01
schestowitz	People even use those things for sex	Dec 27 01:01
schestowitz	Netbooks are this idea that computers fit in a purse	Dec 27 01:02
schestowitz	And that they are a companion to a person's life	Dec 27 01:02
schestowitz	So the desktop is suddenly like old mainframe	Dec 27 01:02
schestowitz	You need to go home and sit down on the thing with Ethernet and wired power	Dec 27 01:02
cubezzz	I'm using an old desktop right now :)	Dec 27 01:03
schestowitz	Like going into a lab and buying computer time	Dec 27 01:03
schestowitz	A friend of mine had foresight re those devices many years ago	Dec 27 01:03
schestowitz	If it's likely to become true, it usually will.. or if it's /possible/ rather	Dec 27 01:03
schestowitz	We could soon use thoughts/eye movement for interaction	Dec 27 01:04
schestowitz	Now we have things like wiimote, Natal and PS3 has one too.....	Dec 27 01:04
schestowitz	Interaction without peripherals as such	Dec 27 01:04
*cubezzz looks at his qwerty keyboard		Dec 27 01:04
cubezzz	well, I'm not doing to chip myself :)	Dec 27 01:05
cubezzz	doing = going	Dec 27 01:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux 2.6.33 Reaches Second RC, #MultiTouch in the Mix http://ur1.ca/iknp http://ur1.ca/iknq		Dec 27 01:06
phIRCe-local	Title: LKML: Linus Torvalds: Linux 2.6.33-rc2 - Merry Christmas ... .::. Size~: 38.83 KB	Dec 27 01:06
phIRCe-local	Title: [Phoronix] Multi-Touch Gesture Recognition For Clutter .::. Size~: 16.02 KB	Dec 27 01:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] xorg-server 1.8 is Imminent http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2009-December/048539.html		Dec 27 01:07
cubezzz	I guess displays will get bigger and bigger	Dec 27 01:08
cubezzz	but the whole voice recognition thing seems to be progressing very slowly	Dec 27 01:08
cubezzz	really I am still using what I would call "Amiga mode" with FOSS improvements	Dec 27 01:09
cubezzz	mouse. keyboard, display, icons, englebert :)	Dec 27 01:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Gaming Review: #Nexuiz 2.5.2 http://tuxarena.blogspot.com/2009/12/full-review-nexuiz-252-free-first.html		Dec 27 01:09
phIRCe-local	Title: TuxArena: Full Review: Nexuiz 2.5.2 - Free First-Person Shooter for Linux .::. Size~: 103.2 KB	Dec 27 01:09
cubezzz	ethernet...	Dec 27 01:09
schestowitz	Fine for us...	Dec 27 01:11
schestowitz	Others have other requirements	Dec 27 01:11
cubezzz	the PDA is merely an auxilary computer to me	Dec 27 01:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @_Goblin Yes Thanks, hope you had a great time to ;-)		Dec 27 01:11
cubezzz	I'm not going to surf the web on a 3" screen	Dec 27 01:11
cubezzz	I'll use it for sound, or just porting for the heck of it	Dec 27 01:12
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment Gets Better Integrated with #PolicyKit http://www.kdenews.org/2009/12/25/kde-extends-polkit-support-polkit-1 #kde		Dec 27 01:12
phIRCe-local	Title: KDE extends Polkit support to polkit-1 \| KDE.news .::. Size~: 11.91 KB	Dec 27 01:12
schestowitz	How strong is Wi-Fi radiation?	Dec 27 01:13
schestowitz	Compared to cellphones that is...	Dec 27 01:14
schestowitz	Laptops are broadcasting heavily these days	Dec 27 01:14
cubezzz	I believe cell phones are a bigger concern	Dec 27 01:15
schestowitz	A second US state this month decided to issue cancer warnings on phones	Dec 27 01:15
cubezzz	there's UHF flying around all major cities	Dec 27 01:15
schestowitz	Like on cigarettes I guess	Dec 27 01:15
schestowitz	Marie Currie didn't care either, until she got Leukaemia and it was too late	Dec 27 01:15
cubezzz	LCD's are safer and emit less radiation than cathode ray tubes	Dec 27 01:16
schestowitz	But the heavy use was done by Currie, not paitents	Dec 27 01:16
schestowitz	It's problematic when the experiment is a large-scale one without even a decade or two to measure the impact	Dec 27 01:16
schestowitz	Normal group might be less developed population, but it's not a good "control" group	Dec 27 01:16
cubezzz	I'm not a cell phone fan	Dec 27 01:17
cubezzz	http://www.radiationtalk.com/info/wifi_radiation.php	Dec 27 01:18
phIRCe-local	Title: Wireless Radiation - the hazards of WiFi internet connection .::. Size~: 13.21 KB	Dec 27 01:18
cubezzz	all I can say is I've spent most of my life on computers and I seem OK :)	Dec 27 01:19
cubezzz	but I don't use WI-FI and I don't use cell phones	Dec 27 01:19
schestowitz	Some schools banned it	Dec 27 01:19
cubezzz	I've never used a cell phone	Dec 27 01:19
schestowitz	I wrote about it around 2006	Dec 27 01:19
schestowitz	cubezzz: good for you	Dec 27 01:20
schestowitz	I discarded mine in 2003	Dec 27 01:20
cubezzz	"Officially, the levels of WiFi electromagnetic radiation emitted into the environment in a hotspot are well below recommended levels and there is no evidence of any risk to humans."	Dec 27 01:20
schestowitz	If you ask people about it, they reply, "but everyone uses them"	Dec 27 01:20
cubezzz	I do take computer breaks now	Dec 27 01:20
schestowitz	The "jump out building" defense	Dec 27 01:20
schestowitz	"Everyone's smoking. It's cool"	Dec 27 01:21
schestowitz	Or "everyone uses Mono now, so it must be safe"	Dec 27 01:21
cubezzz	well, don't get close to a microwave transmitter :)	Dec 27 01:21
cubezzz	seriously they can cook you	Dec 27 01:21
schestowitz	Microwaves were banned	Dec 27 01:21
schestowitz	I still avoid them	Dec 27 01:21
schestowitz	I know doctors who avoid them	Dec 27 01:21
schestowitz	Unless you fool them by not telling them the food was nuked	Dec 27 01:21
cubezzz	well, lots of things are dangerous	Dec 27 01:22
cubezzz	too much sun is dangerous	Dec 27 01:22
schestowitz	People underspecification the realm of the micro-tiny	Dec 27 01:22
*MinceR has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)		Dec 27 01:22
cubezzz	microwave ovens are safe though	Dec 27 01:22
*_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat")		Dec 27 01:22
schestowitz	They think that if they can't see it like germs, then it can be overlooked	Dec 27 01:22
cubezzz	but don't stand right next to them when they're on, simple	Dec 27 01:23
schestowitz	It's not just that though	Dec 27 01:23
schestowitz	They affects the atoms	Dec 27 01:23
schestowitz	Microwaves food is now the same when serves	Dec 27 01:23
schestowitz	*served	Dec 27 01:23
cubezzz	schestowitz, I actually do use a stove a lot	Dec 27 01:23
schestowitz	Also, don't put things like plastic around microwaves	Dec 27 01:23
cubezzz	microwave is just for re-heating stuff	Dec 27 01:24
schestowitz	Like those 'quick-ready' meals people love so much	Dec 27 01:24
cubezzz	good idea :)	Dec 27 01:24
schestowitz	I heat up water only on the stove	Dec 27 01:24
schestowitz	Like now... for tea	Dec 27 01:24
cubezzz	I don't really like my food burning hot on one side and cold on the other :)	Dec 27 01:24
schestowitz	Life on the fast lane conflicts with life on the safe lane	Dec 27 01:25
cubezzz	Tesla lived past 80 and he was doing all sorts of dangerous stuff	Dec 27 01:25
schestowitz	The faster you love, well... sometimes the faster you due. Where faster means taking shortcuts that bodies aren't meant to cope with ... sleeping pills for example	Dec 27 01:25
cubezzz	schestowitz, sometimes the older tech is better	Dec 27 01:26
schestowitz	cubezzz: he's one person	Dec 27 01:26
cubezzz	I'm old, my computer is old :)	Dec 27 01:26
schestowitz	It's like those people who say, "my dead grandma has one class of wine per day and lives to be 100"	Dec 27 01:26
schestowitz	That's not a study	Dec 27 01:26
schestowitz	That's superstition at best	Dec 27 01:26
cubezzz	grapes are good for you though :)	Dec 27 01:27
cubezzz	schestowitz, you could go Amish :)	Dec 27 01:27
cubezzz	then no more probs :)	Dec 27 01:27
cubezzz	no more evil Microsoft to worry about	Dec 27 01:27
schestowitz	Urbans myths I was subjected to include the excessive drinking of water	Dec 27 01:28
schestowitz	Water-poison	Dec 27 01:28
schestowitz	Esp. these days	Dec 27 01:28
schestowitz	We put chlorine in it	Dec 27 01:28
schestowitz	Cyanide	Dec 27 01:28
schestowitz	All sorts of rubbish	Dec 27 01:28
schestowitz	Trying to catch up with ways to purify while also polluting more through industry	Dec 27 01:28
cubezzz	"When we have conducted measurements in schools, typical exposures from wi-fi are around 20 millionths of the international guideline levels of exposure to radiation. As a comparison, a child on a mobile phone receives up to 50 per cent of guideline levels. So a year sitting in a classroom near a wireless network is roughly equivalent to 20 minutes on a mobile. If wi-fi should be taken out of schools, then the mobile phone network should be shut dow	Dec 27 01:29
cubezzz	n, too "	Dec 27 01:29
cubezzz	so cell phones are _way_ worse	Dec 27 01:29
schestowitz	Amish are against vaccination/inoculation, no?	Dec 27 01:29
cubezzz	probably	Dec 27 01:29
cubezzz	not 100% sure though	Dec 27 01:29
schestowitz	They wilfully increase chance of death for their kids	Dec 27 01:29
schestowitz	cubezzz: cause phones are long-range	Dec 27 01:30
schestowitz	But wi-fi is used for a long time	Dec 27 01:30
schestowitz	And maybe more bandwidth	Dec 27 01:30
cubezzz	well, I don't really use either, but cell phones just seem wrong to me	Dec 27 01:30
schestowitz	Phone transmit to faraway antennas and you put them right next to your brain	Dec 27 01:30
schestowitz	If you work in security, walkie-talkies make sense	Dec 27 01:31
cubezzz	cell phone users just seem really rude	Dec 27 01:31
schestowitz	But to discuss gossip....	Dec 27 01:31
cubezzz	yeah it's stupid	Dec 27 01:31
schestowitz	It has become a multi-billion-dollar industry	Dec 27 01:31
schestowitz	It's like Big Oil	Dec 27 01:31
cubezzz	plus you get a nice fat bill every month	Dec 27 01:31
schestowitz	They won't give it up without disinformation	Dec 27 01:31
schestowitz	The Cellphones Industrial Complex :-)	Dec 27 01:32
schestowitz	A culture was built around cellphones	Dec 27 01:32
schestowitz	For stuff we could do without	Dec 27 01:32
schestowitz	And people continue to live without	Dec 27 01:32
cubezzz	one time I'm grocery shopping... and I see this guy enter the store and he's on his cell	Dec 27 01:32
schestowitz	Not making them Luddites, either	Dec 27 01:32
cubezzz	he does all his shopping while blabbing on the cell	Dec 27 01:33
cubezzz	goes through the checkout (on the cell)	Dec 27 01:33
schestowitz	It's a culture of consumption that transcends physical and tells us that we're more loved if we get more calls and E-mail	Dec 27 01:33
cubezzz	and exits the store (still talkin' on the cell)	Dec 27 01:33
schestowitz	He could talk to nearby persons	Dec 27 01:33
schestowitz	See face, motion, touch	Dec 27 01:34
schestowitz	More exhilarating	Dec 27 01:34
schestowitz	People in the west are trained since young age to be isolated	Dec 27 01:34
schestowitz	British society is very insular	Dec 27 01:34
schestowitz	You're frowned upon for approaching a stranger	Dec 27 01:34
cubezzz	yes	Dec 27 01:34
schestowitz	It's a 'matrix'/grid that's trivial to control	Dec 27 01:35
schestowitz	Cause you deal with individual objects, not motions of population	Dec 27 01:35
cubezzz	but there are pervs out there	Dec 27 01:35
schestowitz	Like unions	Dec 27 01:35
cubezzz	for a little kid, it makes sense	Dec 27 01:35
schestowitz	"Mind you own business, live in your cubicle"	Dec 27 01:35
schestowitz	"Merry Christmanseveryone!! Now get back to work!" :-)	Dec 27 01:35
cubezzz	they don't even say Merry Christmas in the stores now	Dec 27 01:36
schestowitz	cubezzz: but here's my point, about stranger	Dec 27 01:36
cubezzz	they said "Have a nice day"	Dec 27 01:36
schestowitz	If a stranger is malicious, he or she would not be hindered by someone ignoring	Dec 27 01:36
schestowitz	I had this discussion with trmanco over phone	Dec 27 01:36
schestowitz	Basically, you're assuming that molesters would be stopped by just having people turn away	Dec 27 01:36
cubezzz	that's a good point	Dec 27 01:37
schestowitz	But being abusers, you need to actually study this properly	Dec 27 01:37
schestowitz	It's like "CCTV as deterrent"	Dec 27 01:37
schestowitz	Does CCTV actually /prevent/ crime?	Dec 27 01:37
schestowitz	Evidence shows it does not reduce it	Dec 27 01:37
schestowitz	It might improve conviction rates	Dec 27 01:37
trmanco	when you meet a girl, she is a stranger, you are a stranger to her	Dec 27 01:37
schestowitz	But not actually prevent it	Dec 27 01:37
schestowitz	trmanco: yes, that too	Dec 27 01:37
trmanco	if you would go with the saying of "do not talk to strangers" we would be f***ed	Dec 27 01:38
trmanco	even if you're 15	Dec 27 01:38
schestowitz	Criminals don't understand CCTV	Dec 27 01:38
trmanco	or 13	Dec 27 01:38
schestowitz	They are hungry or yearning for some cocaine	Dec 27 01:38
trmanco	people need to socialize and talk to other people	Dec 27 01:38
schestowitz	The CCTV isn't presented to them on TV	Dec 27 01:38
trmanco	whatever their age is	Dec 27 01:38
*MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 01:39
schestowitz	Yes, but that is not the society people upstairs are willing to foster	Dec 27 01:39
trmanco	I know	Dec 27 01:39
trmanco	that is the problem	Dec 27 01:39
schestowitz	That's how popular peaceful movements grow	Dec 27 01:39
schestowitz	Like in India	Dec 27 01:39
schestowitz	It overthrew the British	Dec 27 01:39
trmanco	people are sheeple	Dec 27 01:39
trmanco	I might of spelled it wrong	Dec 27 01:40
schestowitz	They used the British judiciary system against them	Dec 27 01:40
schestowitz	And people are not taught law	Dec 27 01:40
schestowitz	That's another thing	Dec 27 01:40
schestowitz	But not understanding law it becomes easier to make them authorities' prey	Dec 27 01:40
schestowitz	They assume people with power or costume/badge will not request something that can be refused	Dec 27 01:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 2009 a Great Year for #Linux #Phones http://ur1.ca/ikp5 http://ur1.ca/ikp6		Dec 27 01:46
phIRCe-local	Title: 2009 is the Year of the Linux-powered Smartphones \| TECH SOURCE FROM BOHOL .::. Size~: 93.17 KB	Dec 27 01:46
phIRCe-local	Title: More than 50 percent of Acer handsets for next year will use Android \| High Tech Lounge .::. Size~: 24.56 KB	Dec 27 01:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla #Thunderbird 3.1 Already in Sight, #Firefox Thrives http://ur1.ca/ikp8 http://ur1.ca/ikp9		Dec 27 01:48
phIRCe-local	Title: Mozilla Messaging building nest for Thunderbird 3.1 .::. Size~: 39.17 KB	Dec 27 01:48
phIRCe-local	Title: Browsers of Europe « Limulus .::. Size~: 15.14 KB	Dec 27 01:48
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free/Open Source Software Luminary Calls for #OpenAccess on Research http://www.dwheeler.com/blog/2009/12/13/#open-access-2009		Dec 27 01:49
phIRCe-local	Title: David A. Wheeler's Blog .::. Size~: 5.79 KB	Dec 27 01:49
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LarryLessig Puts Weight Behind #FreeSoftware http://www.fsf.org/appeal/2009/lessig-transcript		Dec 27 01:51
phIRCe-local	Title: This is Larry Lessig... - Free Software Foundation .::. Size~: 29.53 KB	Dec 27 01:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Jolicloud #GNU #Linux for Sub-notebooks Gets Good Review http://ur1.ca/ikpg		Dec 27 01:53
phIRCe-local	Title: Jolicloud Review - A netbook centric OS ideal for Samsung NC10 .::. Size~: 19.73 KB	Dec 27 01:54
trmanco	VLMC is going to be the video editor to rock them all	Dec 27 01:54
trmanco	if they can put the same effort they did in VLC it will :D	Dec 27 01:55
trmanco	and it also uses Qt	Dec 27 01:57
trmanco	I mean, it's GUI is built using Qt	Dec 27 01:58
*MinceR has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)		Dec 27 02:02
schestowitz	Oh, cool	Dec 27 02:03
schestowitz	I saw screenshows with KDE4 windows decorations	Dec 27 02:03
schestowitz	I didn't know it was Qt inside too	Dec 27 02:03
*MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 02:17
trmanco	it is	Dec 27 02:17
trmanco	take a peek at the source	Dec 27 02:17
trmanco	they moved from wxwidgets to Qt for a reason :-P	Dec 27 02:18
trmanco	but they still use cocoa for mac though	Dec 27 02:18
trmanco	http://vlmc.org/repositories/entry/vlmc/src/GUI/ClipProperty.cpp	Dec 27 02:20
trmanco	example	Dec 27 02:20
phIRCe-local	Title: VideoLAN Movie Creator - /src/GUI/ClipProperty.cpp - VideoLAN Movie Creator .::. Size~: 23.58 KB	Dec 27 02:20
*logger_bot has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)		Dec 27 02:21
trmanco	Dependencies	Dec 27 02:23
trmanco	8	Dec 27 02:23
trmanco	============	Dec 27 02:23
trmanco	9	Dec 27 02:23
trmanco	10	Dec 27 02:23
trmanco	- Latest version of VLC installed (from the git repository)	Dec 27 02:23
trmanco	11	Dec 27 02:23
trmanco	- Qt framework >= 4.5.0	Dec 27 02:23
*Balrog has quit ()		Dec 27 02:23
*logger_bot (n=roy@130.88.234.125) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 02:25
schestowitz	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar6xOoiC1U4#t=2m55s	Dec 27 02:34
*DaemonFC (n=chatzill@c-67-173-86-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 02:39
DaemonFC	Downloading a game demo to make sure it works well on my PC.	Dec 27 02:40
DaemonFC	Shouldn't have to because the box says it'll work. Boxes lie though, I don't trust them.	Dec 27 02:40
DaemonFC	Once it's out of the shrink wrap, you're on your own	Dec 27 02:40
trmanco	http://muthanna.com/downloads/ChromePoster.pdf	Dec 27 02:41
phIRCe-local	Title: Not a web page! Aborting application/pdf type .::. Size~: 0 KB	Dec 27 02:41
*fewa_ has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))		Dec 27 02:43
schestowitz	Live CDs with games would be nice	Dec 27 02:44
schestowitz	RAM can hold the whole game anyway	Dec 27 02:44
DaemonFC	schestowitz: They tend to like to reach in and plant their rootkits of DRM deep into the OS	Dec 27 02:47
DaemonFC	Microsoft was nice enough to certify their rootkits too	Dec 27 02:48
DaemonFC	I better search around and find out if there's anything terribly nasty in this game, like phoning home every day	Dec 27 02:49
DaemonFC	or no more than five installs	Dec 27 02:49
schestowitz	We'll see tomorrow	Dec 27 02:49
*schestowitz zzzzzzzzzzzs		Dec 27 02:49
DaemonFC	the PC version of the game Avatar limits you to three activations, ever	Dec 27 02:52
DaemonFC	you're paying $50 to rent a PC game	Dec 27 02:52
DaemonFC	how would someone go about suing Ubisoft for doing this and not printing a warning on their box?	Dec 27 02:54
DaemonFC	seems to me like they are damaging the customer by forcing them to eventually not be able to play their PC game for no good reason	Dec 27 02:55
*sebsebseb (n=3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 03:08
trmanco	how can they do that?	Dec 27 03:10
DaemonFC	trmanco: I read Ubisoft's official explanation and I was a little off	Dec 27 03:11
DaemonFC	You start with 3 activation credits. Every month, you get one back (up to a maximum of three).	Dec 27 03:11
DaemonFC	you can reactivate it a million times on the same PC if you need to and it won't ding your activation credits on hand	Dec 27 03:11
trmanco	but how does it keep track?	Dec 27 03:11
trmanco	oh, internet?	Dec 27 03:11
DaemonFC	so what they're basically saying I think is that I could (theoretically) install it on three PCs, wait a month, and I have another credit and could activate it on a fourth, another month I can activate it on a fifth, and so on	Dec 27 03:11
DaemonFC	it's just meant to make sure I don't put my copy on bittorrent and next month there's a million more just like it using the same serial	Dec 27 03:11
DaemonFC	:P	Dec 27 03:11
DaemonFC	I think the biggest concern here is what happens if I want to dig out my game in the year 2020 and Ubisoft is not longer running an activation server for it	Dec 27 03:12
DaemonFC	:P	Dec 27 03:12
DaemonFC	*no longer	Dec 27 03:12
DaemonFC	http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6391049957/m/1661055908	Dec 27 03:12
phIRCe-local	Title: PC Activation FAQ: T@GES - Topic Powered by Social Strata .::. Size~: 43.32 KB	Dec 27 03:12
DaemonFC	I don't necessarily mind DRM that doesn't impede my ability to use the game, it's just that I don't trust them to remove it before shutting the activation servers off	Dec 27 03:15
DaemonFC	kind of like Microsoft and XP	Dec 27 03:15
DaemonFC	After 2014, who says they'll reactivate it?	Dec 27 03:15
cubezzz	who says I use XP? :)	Dec 27 03:17
DaemonFC	I also think games are getting buggier	Dec 27 03:17
cubezzz	damn it, I guess I'll have to use Linux then	Dec 27 03:17
DaemonFC	like, I swear the only testing they do is to make sure it usuallu doesn't crash in the first 10 minutes, then you're on your own	Dec 27 03:17
cubezzz	22:10:46 up 68 days, 18:52, 9 users, load average: 0.24, 0.09, 0.03	Dec 27 03:17
cubezzz	"Think of how many computer users would be using MacOS or Linux KDE, if Windows didn't exist, or if Microsoft were to suddenly drop dead and stop making new versions of Windows that were successful at competing for placement on people's computers. "	Dec 27 03:19
cubezzz	Microsoft as a microbe	Dec 27 03:19
DaemonFC	buying PC games means you're basically married to Windows	Dec 27 03:20
DaemonFC	it's a shotgun marriage	Dec 27 03:20
cubezzz	well you know what I'm going to say next :)	Dec 27 03:21
cubezzz	and the term PC is too vague	Dec 27 03:22
cubezzz	in the 80's PC could mean an Atari, Amiga, TRS-80, Apple and a ton of other things	Dec 27 03:23
cubezzz	it's only now that PC has been reduced to Windows Box	Dec 27 03:23
ender2070	[21:45] <DaemonFC> the PC version of the game Avatar limits you to three activations, ever	Dec 27 03:24
ender2070	funny, doesnt stop pirates from installing more than 3 times	Dec 27 03:24
DaemonFC	ender2070: That's what I read off Amazon	Dec 27 03:24
DaemonFC	turned out to be a slight exaggeration	Dec 27 03:24
ender2070	still	Dec 27 03:25
ender2070	pirated versions have less restrictions for the end user	Dec 27 03:25
ender2070	which is embarrassing to the proprietary software model	Dec 27 03:25
*Diablo-D3 (n=diablo@pool-70-16-106-230.port.east.myfairpoint.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 03:26
cubezzz	ender2070, lgp is adding DRM to it's games too	Dec 27 03:29
ender2070	you also get industries, and the BSA for example which "fight piracy"	Dec 27 03:29
ender2070	however the BSA fights end users who legally purchase software	Dec 27 03:29
ender2070	requiring draconian record keeping or you get sued/fined	Dec 27 03:30
ender2070	lgp ?	Dec 27 03:30
cubezzz	linux game publishing	Dec 27 03:30
ender2070	ahh	Dec 27 03:31
ender2070	just because they bring stuff to linux, doesn't mean they are good people	Dec 27 03:32
ender2070	for example, lgp	Dec 27 03:33
ender2070	its all proprietary software	Dec 27 03:33
ender2070	they provide one piece of open source: http://opensource.linuxgamepublishing.com/grapple	Dec 27 03:33
cubezzz	yes	Dec 27 03:34
cubezzz	same as loki	Dec 27 03:34
cubezzz	or the same as loki used to be	Dec 27 03:34
ender2070	I wish more companies would at the very minimum follow ID Software's example	Dec 27 03:35
ender2070	releasing source code of older products	Dec 27 03:35
ender2070	though, they should open source all games	Dec 27 03:35
ender2070	at the very least: game engines	Dec 27 03:35
cubezzz	exactly my thought	Dec 27 03:36
ender2070	nothing stops them from selling it commercially with their own graphics artwork, scripting and content	Dec 27 03:36
ender2070	the engine would let people port it to everything	Dec 27 03:36
cubezzz	ah, have you looked at a commercial windows game's source code?	Dec 27 03:37
ender2070	no, its probably horrific	Dec 27 03:37
cubezzz	porting is not easy	Dec 27 03:37
*trmanco has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Dec 27 03:37
cubezzz	I have seen it :)	Dec 27 03:37
ender2070	ID has good code	Dec 27 03:38
ender2070	days after duke3d got freed, several ports came out within days	Dec 27 03:38
cubezzz	yes, it probably had to be good then	Dec 27 03:38
ender2070	it was a dos game too	Dec 27 03:38
ender2070	probably simple	Dec 27 03:38
cubezzz	yes, sometimes porting is easy	Dec 27 03:38
ender2070	tyrian got opened too	Dec 27 03:39
ender2070	the artwork is non free, but they made it freeware arlier	Dec 27 03:40
ender2070	earlier*	Dec 27 03:40
cubezzz	I wouldn't mind having a train editor for rt2 or a map editor for heretic 2	Dec 27 03:42
cubezzz	google is really pushing chrome	Dec 27 03:42
cubezzz	I'm seeing ads everywhere	Dec 27 03:43
ender2070	i dont mind chrome	Dec 27 03:43
ender2070	ill use it when theres a good adblock	Dec 27 03:43
ender2070	arora is better though if you like webkit	Dec 27 03:44
ender2070	not as stable but its adblock and flashclick work	Dec 27 03:44
ender2070	i've been seeing a LOT of rogers ads, flash ones	Dec 27 03:45
ender2070	i hate them so much	Dec 27 03:45
ender2070	for me:	Dec 27 03:45
ender2070	scale of hate	Dec 27 03:45
ender2070	Microsoft > Rogers	Dec 27 03:46
ender2070	i couldnt think of any more	Dec 27 03:46
ender2070	lol	Dec 27 03:46
cubezzz	how do you feel about Novell?	Dec 27 03:47
cubezzz	ah, toronto freenet ftw :)	Dec 27 03:47
ender2070	Novell, not sure	Dec 27 03:47
ender2070	i dont like them	Dec 27 03:47
ender2070	but i dont "hate" them	Dec 27 03:47
cubezzz	it's still using bell's equipment, but it's non profit company	Dec 27 03:48
ender2070	there are things they can do to redeem themselves	Dec 27 03:48
cubezzz	yeah, it really should be "boycott microsoft" and not "boycott novell"	Dec 27 03:48
cubezzz	my 2 cents	Dec 27 03:48
ender2070	yeah thats why im here	Dec 27 03:48
ender2070	im anti-ms	Dec 27 03:48
cubezzz	I think I hate Microsoft more :)	Dec 27 03:49
ender2070	http://ihaterogers.ca/	Dec 27 03:49
cubezzz	well, UHF antennas are good :)	Dec 27 03:49
cubezzz	I'm back on antenna for the past year	Dec 27 03:50
ender2070	I hate Microsoft a lot	Dec 27 03:50
cubezzz	have you ever talked to Microsoft Canada?	Dec 27 03:50
ender2070	no	Dec 27 03:50
ender2070	they are in mississauga	Dec 27 03:50
cubezzz	I have :)	Dec 27 03:50
ender2070	I used to see their building on the bus to my friends every week	Dec 27 03:51
ender2070	I would literally flip the building off every time	Dec 27 03:51
cubezzz	ok, just out of curiousity, is there anything in particular that made you hate them initially?	Dec 27 03:51
ender2070	yes	Dec 27 03:52
cubezzz	for me it had to be win95, that was really the final straw	Dec 27 03:52
ender2070	in high school we got all these win98 celeron 400mhz and 500mhz machines to replace our pentium 1's	Dec 27 03:52
ender2070	the pentium 1's had win3.11 and netscape, worked flawlessly	Dec 27 03:53
ender2070	on the win98 machines we got to use netscape, then the admin made us use IE for content blocking	Dec 27 03:53
ender2070	they didnt want us to visit certain sites and IE had a restrictions list you could add sites to	Dec 27 03:54
ender2070	IE4, IE5, IE6, they ALL sucked	Dec 27 03:54
ender2070	incredibly slow, bad rendering	Dec 27 03:54
cubezzz	when I was in HS I used the SuperPET :)	Dec 27 03:54
cubezzz	hmmm	Dec 27 03:55
ender2070	I made a site that had links to bypass all the sites being blocked in the IE list	Dec 27 03:55
ender2070	just redirects and alternate urls	Dec 27 03:55
cubezzz	_we_ used APL too	Dec 27 03:55
ender2070	also	Dec 27 03:55
ender2070	Microsoft made us remove linux off one of our boxes we were trying	Dec 27 03:56
cubezzz	how did they do that?	Dec 27 03:56
ender2070	they convinced our admin we werent licensed to use it	Dec 27 03:56
cubezzz	ROFL	Dec 27 03:56
ender2070	they said we were only licensed to use microsoft productsd	Dec 27 03:56
cubezzz	smells like BS to me	Dec 27 03:57
ender2070	yeah	Dec 27 03:57
ender2070	I called them on it	Dec 27 03:57
ender2070	but the schools have no teeth	Dec 27 03:57
cubezzz	we had a lot of cool stuff actually	Dec 27 03:57
ender2070	here is the funny thing	Dec 27 03:58
cubezzz	we had this HUGE steel cased Commodore 8050's	Dec 27 03:58
ender2070	they didnt know we had it till they detected it on our network somehow	Dec 27 03:58
ender2070	the comp lab teacher who let me install it was on my side too	Dec 27 03:58
cubezzz	this story sounds familar	Dec 27 03:59
ender2070	no paid license is required to have linux	Dec 27 03:59
cubezzz	Ryerson used Darkstar in 1994	Dec 27 03:59
cubezzz	Waterloo had Solaris	Dec 27 03:59
ender2070	this was the peel board of education	Dec 27 03:59
*cubezzz nods		Dec 27 03:59
ender2070	novell netware	Dec 27 03:59
ender2070	and windows boxes	Dec 27 03:59
cubezzz	back in the day it was all commodore	Dec 27 04:00
ender2070	1997+	Dec 27 04:00
cubezzz	this was 1980-1984 for me	Dec 27 04:00
cubezzz	ancient days :)	Dec 27 04:00
ender2070	yeah	Dec 27 04:00
ender2070	my grade 8 teacher showed me a toronto computes article that was showing off Redhat and Slackware	Dec 27 04:00
ender2070	1999	Dec 27 04:01
cubezzz	did you know I used punched cards in 1979?	Dec 27 04:01
cubezzz	the last year they were used	Dec 27 04:01
ender2070	heh	Dec 27 04:01
cubezzz	Simon BASIC	Dec 27 04:01
ender2070	my math teacher told me about their advanced 4k computer	Dec 27 04:01
ender2070	used for math or something	Dec 27 04:01
cubezzz	some of the local colleges used TRS-80 Model 1's	Dec 27 04:02
ender2070	it broke down and they got access to an 8k computer, but it was missing the multiplication function so they had to write one using the extra 4k	Dec 27 04:02
cubezzz	ok, this sounds like S100 stuff	Dec 27 04:02
cubezzz	like KIM-1 or Altair	Dec 27 04:02
ender2070	possibly altair, sounds familiar	Dec 27 04:03
cubezzz	those disk drives we used to have weighed a TON	Dec 27 04:03
cubezzz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800	Dec 27 04:03
phIRCe-local	Title: Altair 8800 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 94.99 KB	Dec 27 04:03
ender2070	yeah	Dec 27 04:04
ender2070	using IE soured me the most	Dec 27 04:04
cubezzz	I never liked windows	Dec 27 04:04
ender2070	and not being able to actually uninstall it cemented it	Dec 27 04:04
ender2070	I had a Microsoft rep come into my old work, funny story	Dec 27 04:05
ender2070	He asked me what I thought of Win7	Dec 27 04:05
ender2070	I said "FINALLY I GET THE FUCKING OPTION TO REMOVE IE COMPLETELY"	Dec 27 04:05
ender2070	he said "does it really do that much harm by leaving it there?"	Dec 27 04:05
ender2070	I said "YES"	Dec 27 04:05
ender2070	I got a dirty look but I pissed him off sufficiently	Dec 27 04:06
ender2070	:D	Dec 27 04:06
cubezzz	still have my Darkstar notes	Dec 27 04:07
cubezzz	Linux Darkstar 0.99.14	Dec 27 04:07
ender2070	hehe, he came in several times wanting special repair service	Dec 27 04:07
ender2070	I gave him special service :)	Dec 27 04:07
ender2070	higher prices and more wait :D	Dec 27 04:07
cubezzz	haha	Dec 27 04:08
ender2070	we didnt advertise pricing or times, so I charged whatever I felt I was reasonable	Dec 27 04:08
ender2070	heres a fun story, you usually hear about older workers getting fired for cheaper younger guys right?	Dec 27 04:09
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Welcome to the third phase.. (MUST Watch!!)-- Phase 3 pt.10- (Phase 3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlVmQWeeEDE		Dec 27 04:09
cubezzz	I suppose	Dec 27 04:11
ender2070	Well im 25	Dec 27 04:12
ender2070	I was making $14 /hr	Dec 27 04:12
ender2070	I got replaced by some 45 year old who lives in his parents basement making $11	Dec 27 04:12
cubezzz	lol	Dec 27 04:12
ender2070	not only that but he was a complete idiot	Dec 27 04:13
cubezzz	it doesn't seem worth the $3 per hour savings :)	Dec 27 04:13
ender2070	it isn't because I had to redo his work often	Dec 27 04:13
ender2070	now that im gone, who gets to redo it? him. lol	Dec 27 04:14
ender2070	he couldn't even properly remove viruses and spyware, and I charged $100 w/ guaranteed removal	Dec 27 04:15
ender2070	i doubt they can charge that anymore with him, lol	Dec 27 04:15
ender2070	thats the other thing that made me hate windows	Dec 27 04:16
ender2070	fixing peoples stupid windows issues	Dec 27 04:16
cubezzz	yeah that job sucks	Dec 27 04:16
ender2070	yup	Dec 27 04:16
cubezzz	but I sell dual boot machines so it's not as bad	Dec 27 04:17
ender2070	computer store repair/returns bitch	Dec 27 04:17
cubezzz	I still fix old PCs sometimes	Dec 27 04:17
ender2070	I actually had more older people interested in linux than young people	Dec 27 04:18
cubezzz	it's the curse of your generation	Dec 27 04:18
cubezzz	total windows domination	Dec 27 04:19
ender2070	well we had to use it in school	Dec 27 04:19
ender2070	brainwashing at an early age	Dec 27 04:19
cubezzz	the oldest customers are over 80	Dec 27 04:19
cubezzz	they can remember before TVs :)	Dec 27 04:19
ender2070	my mom loved linux	Dec 27 04:20
cubezzz	the interesting thing is some of them are pretty good on computers	Dec 27 04:20
ender2070	I had to give her windows because of my stupid brother	Dec 27 04:20
ender2070	he wanted to install teenager things	Dec 27 04:21
cubezzz	games of course	Dec 27 04:21
ender2070	not so much	Dec 27 04:21
ender2070	msn plus for stupid emoticons and shit like that	Dec 27 04:21
cubezzz	there's gaim	Dec 27 04:21
cubezzz	I think I got booted off MSN though	Dec 27 04:21
ender2070	yeah but msn plus users can interact with a bunch of new ones	Dec 27 04:21
ender2070	and other features not part of the msn protocol	Dec 27 04:22
ender2070	its all bullshit and spyware ridden	Dec 27 04:22
cubezzz	protocol was changed or something	Dec 27 04:22
cubezzz	you know what Microsoft is like	Dec 27 04:22
ender2070	gaim is old, it changed to pidgin	Dec 27 04:22
ender2070	still works on msn	Dec 27 04:22
ender2070	I use kopete these days	Dec 27 04:23
ender2070	msn messenger is way too common	Dec 27 04:23
cubezzz	I think I have that	Dec 27 04:23
ender2070	everyone I know uses msn and resist change	Dec 27 04:23
cubezzz	I really don't want to use MSN though	Dec 27 04:24
ender2070	my gf and my best friend use it	Dec 27 04:24
ender2070	I have no choice really	Dec 27 04:24
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.37.117.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 04:31
cubezzz	listening to the former CEO of DR talk about Microsoft	Dec 27 04:34
ender2070	??	Dec 27 04:38
cubezzz	I'll get you a link, it's very interesting	Dec 27 04:40
cubezzz	Richard Williams testimony	Dec 27 04:41
cubezzz	http://www.archive.org/details/Richard_Williams_testimony_in_Caldera_v_Microsoft_1998_audio	Dec 27 04:41
phIRCe-local	Title: Internet Archive: Free Download: Richard Williams testimony in Caldera vs Microsoft .::. Size~: 18.92 KB	Dec 27 04:41
ender2070	ty	Dec 27 04:42
ender2070	:)	Dec 27 04:42
cubezzz	http://ia311511.us.archive.org/2/items/Richard_Williams_testimony_in_Caldera_v_Microsoft_1998/Richard_Williams_testimony_1998_small.ogg	Dec 27 04:46
phIRCe-local	Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB	Dec 27 04:46
cubezzz	but he's talking about DR at the start	Dec 27 04:46
cubezzz	DR was cash starved	Dec 27 04:47
DaemonFC	I feel like taking this Walmart gift card and buying a huge bottle of Bacardi 151 and some fruit punch to mix it with	Dec 27 04:51
DaemonFC	it has been one of "those" months	Dec 27 04:51
ender2070	lol	Dec 27 05:00
ender2070	I might make a boycottmicrosoft.ca	Dec 27 05:07
*Tallken has quit ("Leaving")		Dec 27 05:08
cubezzz	is the domain name available?	Dec 27 05:16
cubezzz	I think it is :)	Dec 27 05:17
cubezzz	maybe I'll beat you to it :)	Dec 27 05:18
ender2070	its available atm	Dec 27 05:19
cubezzz	ok, go for it	Dec 27 05:19
ender2070	I'll have to think about it	Dec 27 05:20
*DaemonFC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Dec 27 05:25
*fewa_ (n=fewa__@c-67-168-200-83.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 05:56
fewa_	ahhhh, grapefruit in eye	Dec 27 05:58
cubezzz	"Digital Research was purchased by Novell in 1991, primarily for Novell to gain access to the OS line."	Dec 27 06:15
*kecskebak (n=kecskeba@dsl4E5CCB98.pool.t-online.hu) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 06:27
*kecskebak is angry. In Hungary you are automatically convicted, found guilty and fined for copyright infringement if you buy blank DVDs and USB Drives. So if I've been punished already, I presume I can copy whatever I like now...		Dec 27 06:41
Diablo-D3	kecskebak: yup	Dec 27 06:43
Diablo-D3	go ahead and do it	Dec 27 06:43
Diablo-D3	you've already paid for it.	Dec 27 06:43
kecskebak	It really annoyed me this morning	Dec 27 06:45
kecskebak	I got two USB drives and I saw the "artisjus" holograms on the back and realised I'd be had	Dec 27 06:45
kecskebak	I knew about the DVDs and CDs	Dec 27 06:45
kecskebak	But USB drives? Bought to put Linux on?	Dec 27 06:45
Diablo-D3	"artisjus"?	Dec 27 06:46
kecskebak	Hungary, as a developing economy shouldn't give a fig for other country's patents and copyright anyway	Dec 27 06:46
kecskebak	Yes "Artist's justice" the rights collection agency	Dec 27 06:46
Diablo-D3	ahh	Dec 27 06:46
Diablo-D3	move.	Dec 27 06:46
*DaemonFC (n=chatzill@c-67-173-86-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 06:46
kecskebak	The USA didn't respect UK copyrights until the 50s	Dec 27 06:46
Diablo-D3	The US welcomes anyone who hates people who use copyright as a tool to fraud someone	Dec 27 06:47
Diablo-D3	even if our government doesnt	Dec 27 06:47
DaemonFC	on the bottom of the box for a Motorola Surfboard cable modem....	Dec 27 06:47
DaemonFC	"Linux is a registered trademark of Linux Torvalds"	Dec 27 06:48
DaemonFC	heh	Dec 27 06:48
kecskebak	Registered Trademarks are the only part of the amorphous lump that people call "Intellectual Property" that I can agree with	Dec 27 06:48
DaemonFC	the only thing they had Avatar for at Walmart was the XBOX 360 for $60	Dec 27 06:48
DaemonFC	it's on Steam for PC for $24	Dec 27 06:48
Diablo-D3	there are so few of those it doesnt really matter	Dec 27 06:49
Diablo-D3	kecskebak: the old school is dying anyhow	Dec 27 06:49
Diablo-D3	the RIAA has basically gone after private music artists because those artists are the future of music.	Dec 27 06:49
DaemonFC	I really don't like the XBOX 360	Dec 27 06:49
Diablo-D3	the MPAA has also realized the future is the Internet and is moving accordingly.	Dec 27 06:49
DaemonFC	this latest refurb is serving as a really big DVD player more than anything	Dec 27 06:50
DaemonFC	I wish people would quit giving gift certificates or cards	Dec 27 06:50
kecskebak	Why's that?	Dec 27 06:50
DaemonFC	you can only spend them in one place, you can't get cash for them	Dec 27 06:51
DaemonFC	you always leave something on them that you didn't spend	Dec 27 06:51
kecskebak	I got 3 pounds worth of Amazon vouchers to spend on mp3s from Amazon. The only trouble is - I can't buy MP3s from Amazon from Hungary.	Dec 27 06:51
DaemonFC	and $20 Walmart gift card just made me feel worse about not being able to afford anything I really want there right now	Dec 27 06:52
DaemonFC	I'll hold onto the card, I'm paining these rooms next month and $20 ought to buy me like a little less than a gallon of decent paint	Dec 27 06:52
DaemonFC	*painting	Dec 27 06:53
DaemonFC	I can't stand the color the landlord painted these rooms	Dec 27 06:53
DaemonFC	now the shit is flaking off and looks dirty too	Dec 27 06:53
kecskebak	The geographical restrictions on the Amazon.co.uk mp3 store means I just don't buy mp3's from Amazon.co.uk - the artists lose.	Dec 27 06:53
Diablo-D3	whys what? the MPAA not sucking?	Dec 27 06:54
Diablo-D3	they're not idiots, basically	Dec 27 06:54
Diablo-D3	they dont even bother suing torrenters anymore	Dec 27 06:54
Diablo-D3	the only real pirates are those who sell actual physical copies on the black market	Dec 27 06:54
DaemonFC	Diablo-D3: There's nobody really doing that now	Dec 27 06:55
kecskebak	I once bought (in my pre-GNU/Linux days) an .wma from Chandos. They didn't tell me it had Digital Restrictions Management. Suddenly it went really quiet. Never again...	Dec 27 06:55
DaemonFC	everyone with a computer can get all they want by themselves	Dec 27 06:55
Diablo-D3	yeah	Dec 27 06:56
Diablo-D3	I only buy non-DRM music	Dec 27 06:56
kecskebak	So do I - at least I thought I did. I would never have bought a file with DRM	Dec 27 06:56
Diablo-D3	if the artist doesnt trust me, I sure as hell dont trust them	Dec 27 06:56
Diablo-D3	kecskebak: fun part is, its legal to remove DRM in most countries	Dec 27 06:56
kecskebak	Had an Al Stewart and Mike Oldfield CD with DRM crap on it too	Dec 27 06:56
Diablo-D3	CDs dont have DRM.	Dec 27 06:56
kecskebak	Yes - they had some stupid EMI system on	Dec 27 06:56
Diablo-D3	they try to put hidden data tracks that autostart on windows machines	Dec 27 06:57
kecskebak	They couldn't even call it a CD	Dec 27 06:57
Diablo-D3	kecskebak: can it be played in a CD player?	Dec 27 06:57
Diablo-D3	if so, its a CD.	Dec 27 06:57
Diablo-D3	which, seeing as Im on linux, it doesnt effect me.	Dec 27 06:57
kecskebak	Yes - but one of the tracks has a load of shash on the end of it	Dec 27 06:57
kecskebak	If you play the CD on a computer it tries to autoload a program on Windows that plays compressed to hell files	Dec 27 06:58
Diablo-D3	[01:50:11] <Diablo-D3> they try to put hidden data tracks that autostart on windows machines	Dec 27 06:58
Diablo-D3	which, as I said, Im on linux	Dec 27 06:58
Diablo-D3	it doesnt DRM the tracks, btw	Dec 27 06:58
kecskebak	The final track also does something odd with the CD specification - Linux sees it as 15 minutes long when it's five minutes - the final ten minutes are shash	Dec 27 06:58
Diablo-D3	kecskebak: its a data track.	Dec 27 06:58
kecskebak	This sort of thing makes me feel cross - if you treat me like a criminal I'll act like one.	Dec 27 06:59
DaemonFC	I leave Autorun off	Dec 27 07:00
DaemonFC	just in case they get any more funny ideas	Dec 27 07:00
kecskebak	Anyway, I ripped them using Sound Juicer and then just cut the end of the file off in Audacity.	Dec 27 07:00
kecskebak	Though bizarrely I'm not sure if that's actually legal in Hungary.	Dec 27 07:01
kecskebak	This is the sort of website unearned income can buy http://www.artisjus.hu/	Dec 27 07:03
phIRCe-local	Title: Artisjus - Magyar SzerzQi JogvédQ Iroda Egyesület .::. Size~: 5.73 KB	Dec 27 07:03
DaemonFC	kecskebak: Any particular reason you should care?	Dec 27 07:03
DaemonFC	Do they cut your balls off for ripping CDs there or something ? :)	Dec 27 07:03
kecskebak	No, not really. I don't give a bugger. But I do care if things are more expensive because of money going to the latest Megastar idiot	Dec 27 07:03
kecskebak	Actually, the police here can be pretty unpleasant	Dec 27 07:04
kecskebak	They arrested a guy in the village I used to live in for copying DVDs- and put him in cuffs and leg manacles	Dec 27 07:04
DaemonFC	kecskebak: What really offends me is that not only have CD prices not gone down in the US, but they don't even give you a real case, track listing, or artwork either	Dec 27 07:04
Diablo-D3	they're not police then	Dec 27 07:04
DaemonFC	they give you this biodegradable cardboard shit and tell you that the track listing and art are in PDF files on the CD	Dec 27 07:05
DaemonFC	apparently it's not politically correct to use plastic cases anymore	Dec 27 07:06
DaemonFC	that or they just pocketed the difference	Dec 27 07:06
DaemonFC	or both	Dec 27 07:06
kecskebak	The reason people buy CDs in this day and age is because they want the physical product on their shelf - you might as well have a download if you get that	Dec 27 07:06
kecskebak	Many specialist labels are investing more in the artwork in the UK	Dec 27 07:07
DaemonFC	I'm not comfortable with using things like Steam	Dec 27 07:07
DaemonFC	I never have been	Dec 27 07:07
DaemonFC	I got tricked once into buying a video game in a box set that really ran on top of Steam	Dec 27 07:07
DaemonFC	I think they really are so petty that ten years from now, when the game is obsolete anyway and won't ever make them another cent again, they still want to take it away from you.	Dec 27 07:08
kecskebak	Yes - I think that's one of the wonderful things about the GPL, the way it stops software becoming obsolete	Dec 27 07:09
DaemonFC	they want to take it away so they can make more money selling you more	Dec 27 07:11
DaemonFC	Sega still sends out DMCA take downs over old Genesis games from 1990	Dec 27 07:11
DaemonFC	:P	Dec 27 07:11
kecskebak	Yes, I know of companies doing cease and desists over 80s computer games	Dec 27 07:12
DaemonFC	cause every once in a while they slap them on a compilation disc for a modern system (really a Genesis emulator)	Dec 27 07:12
kecskebak	Even 80s educational software - 4Mation in Oz is very hot on their copyright	Dec 27 07:12
DaemonFC	yeah, old software worked then and it works now, and that's what really pisses them off	Dec 27 07:13
DaemonFC	Microsoft got a painful lesson on that with XP	Dec 27 07:13
DaemonFC	if XP never stops doing what you need it to do, it'll take them forever to sell you something else	Dec 27 07:13
kecskebak	And then there are the people who use WINE on GNU/Linux to run mission critical programs written for Windows 95 on newer hardware.	Dec 27 07:14
kecskebak	I know a company around here doing that!	Dec 27 07:14
DaemonFC	most people I know with a computer, don't go and spend $1,000 like I usually end up doing	Dec 27 07:14
*Omar87_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Dec 27 07:14
DaemonFC	they go and get whatever Walmart has for $300	Dec 27 07:14
DaemonFC	it's not like the $300 system will do more than what they use now	Dec 27 07:15
kecskebak	My Dad still uses his original Nokia Mobile phone. The kids he taught used to laugh at it for years, and then suddenly it became retro and cool!	Dec 27 07:15
kecskebak	He said "It makes calls - that's all I want"	Dec 27 07:16
DaemonFC	a friend of mine just now got a new system with Windows 7	Dec 27 07:16
DaemonFC	after using the last one since 1999	Dec 27 07:16
DaemonFC	and is very confused	Dec 27 07:16
DaemonFC	I've been showing him around through remote desktop :P	Dec 27 07:16
DaemonFC	he told me his old system had a Pentium 3 866 Mhz and 256 MB of RAM	Dec 27 07:17
DaemonFC	it was about good enough to be an original XBOX, lol	Dec 27 07:17
kecskebak	My wife's computer was Windows XP, bought in 2003. It was getting slower and slower and slower so I put Ubuntu on it for her. It still does everything she wants.	Dec 27 07:17
DaemonFC	yeah, XP isn't so great about cleaning up its own messes	Dec 27 07:18
DaemonFC	it won't jump in and defrag on its own even	Dec 27 07:18
DaemonFC	I've ran into some unbelievably messed up XP systems	Dec 27 07:19
DaemonFC	one of them had to be defragged before I could do anything else cause it got up to 86% fragmentation	Dec 27 07:19
kecskebak	I always have to defrag my Dad's drive when I visit. It's a horrible job! My children are growing up in a non-Windows house, so GNU/Linux is normality for them which is great.	Dec 27 07:19
DaemonFC	by that time your Master File Table is probably in 20 pieces anyway and you do have to reformat to fix that	Dec 27 07:19
DaemonFC	kecskebak: There's a company called Executive Software, bunch of Scientologists	Dec 27 07:20
kecskebak	Yes, I heard about that	Dec 27 07:20
DaemonFC	they built the NTFS defrag API	Dec 27 07:20
kecskebak	Banned in Germany or something?	Dec 27 07:20
DaemonFC	and the front end for it	Dec 27 07:20
DaemonFC	investigated in Germany, never went beyond that	Dec 27 07:21
DaemonFC	anyway, Microsoft let them cripple the defragger that runs in the Management Console	Dec 27 07:21
DaemonFC	so they can sell people defrag programs that do the whole job	Dec 27 07:21
kecskebak	I never knew that - but I'm not surprised.	Dec 27 07:21
DaemonFC	XP's defrag is like the maid that doesn't do the dishes, windows, or clear cobwebs off the ceiling	Dec 27 07:22
DaemonFC	it's just not the whole thing	Dec 27 07:22
DaemonFC	kecskebak: JKDefrag (now MyDefrag) is the very best defrag program you'll get for free	Dec 27 07:23
DaemonFC	and it's GPL'd :)	Dec 27 07:23
kecskebak	That's really handy to know - Thanks	Dec 27 07:24
DaemonFC	I still don't think it does MFT defragmentation though	Dec 27 07:24
DaemonFC	if you really do need that, PerfectDisk from Raxco is what you want	Dec 27 07:24
kecskebak	I want to put GNU/Linux on my Dad's computer when I go to the UK	Dec 27 07:24
DaemonFC	better than Executive's at half the price	Dec 27 07:24
DaemonFC	kecskebak: Don't slap Ubuntu on it	Dec 27 07:25
DaemonFC	I've really lost a lot of respect for them lately	Dec 27 07:25
DaemonFC	there's plenty of other choices I guess	Dec 27 07:25
kecskebak	Fedora is the candidate at the moment	Dec 27 07:26
DaemonFC	I started using Sidux a few weeks ago	Dec 27 07:26
kecskebak	Sidux is too complicated for me - I'm sure it's great if you invest the time into it	Dec 27 07:26
DaemonFC	it's not all that bad	Dec 27 07:27
DaemonFC	shutting down X and going to runlevel 3 to get updates is the most annoying part	Dec 27 07:27
kecskebak	I need the OS as something stable where I can work - the nice thing about GNU/Linux compared to Windows is I forget the OS is there	Dec 27 07:27
DaemonFC	other than that, it's basically Debian Unstable wit ha seat belt and airbags :)	Dec 27 07:27
kecskebak	So going to something like Sidux would be a step backwards for me.	Dec 27 07:27
DaemonFC	I made the apparently poor decision to go after an ATI video card	Dec 27 07:28
DaemonFC	it's too new to be fully supported by the free driver	Dec 27 07:28
kecskebak	Won't it just be a matter of time though?	Dec 27 07:28
DaemonFC	and ATI lags behind X releases too much to make Fedora practical	Dec 27 07:29
DaemonFC	kecskebak: Well, the 4670 was out a little over a year ago	Dec 27 07:29
DaemonFC	and it's still basically unsupported	Dec 27 07:29
kecskebak	Oh, I see	Dec 27 07:29
kecskebak	I bought a computer with an nVidia card as that's what the shop had in stock and I needed a computer quickly	Dec 27 07:29
kecskebak	I asked for an ATI as I thought it was better for GNU/Linux	Dec 27 07:30
kecskebak	But I would have had to wait	Dec 27 07:30
DaemonFC	Nvidia is OK as far as their Linux support	Dec 27 07:30
DaemonFC	The integrated Geforces will have problems though	Dec 27 07:30
kecskebak	The nouveau driver I tried on Fedora 12 ran 2D stuff beautifully	Dec 27 07:30
DaemonFC	nouveau is trying to catch up to nvidia	Dec 27 07:31
DaemonFC	but it's liek a car going 50 mph trying to catch up to one going 100	Dec 27 07:31
kecskebak	But I've heard the nVidia driver is not the best quality wise - it may be FUD but someone said it was full of wild pointers and stuff	Dec 27 07:32
DaemonFC	I don't have any reason to think that the new-ish cards will ever be properly supported	Dec 27 07:32
DaemonFC	they wouldn't know cause they can't see the source code	Dec 27 07:32
kecskebak	That's true	Dec 27 07:32
DaemonFC	the kernel module part is open source, but that tells you nothing about the driver	Dec 27 07:32
kecskebak	I have never had a problem with the nVidia driver, apart from the fact it isn't free software	Dec 27 07:33
DaemonFC	the driver itself actually works on any UNIX-like system	Dec 27 07:33
DaemonFC	unchanged	Dec 27 07:33
DaemonFC	and shares about 80% of its code with the Windows driver	Dec 27 07:33
kecskebak	I wondered how much was shared	Dec 27 07:33
DaemonFC	most of it	Dec 27 07:33
DaemonFC	according to Nvidia	Dec 27 07:33
kecskebak	I suspected it was - I couldn't see them writing a driver for GNU/Linux otherwise	Dec 27 07:34
DaemonFC	well, any good programmer will try to make the program as portable as possible	Dec 27 07:34
kecskebak	Yes, but good programmers tend to come up against the marketing department in big companies	Dec 27 07:34
DaemonFC	Windows has been on almost as many architectures as Linux over the years	Dec 27 07:34
kecskebak	Not to mention clueless managers	Dec 27 07:34
DaemonFC	John Carmack said it only took him one day to port the Doom 3 engine to Linux and another day to Mac	Dec 27 07:35
DaemonFC	after several years of working on it	Dec 27 07:35
kecskebak	That's very impressive.	Dec 27 07:36
kecskebak	There was an article I read about software debt - how quick and dirty hacks that save time later create "debt" that has to be paid back when you try and port or modify the software.	Dec 27 07:37
DaemonFC	yep	Dec 27 07:39
DaemonFC	mostly between CPU architectures	Dec 27 07:39
kecskebak	I tried to explain this at two former employers, in vain. Only one employer I ever had "got it".	Dec 27 07:39
DaemonFC	a lot of your assumptions about one won't necessarily be true on the others	Dec 27 07:39
DaemonFC	Microsoft doesn't get sloppy at the expense of portability	Dec 27 07:40
DaemonFC	just on everything else :)	Dec 27 07:40
DaemonFC	When XP came alone, they actually moved all their kernel hacks for application compatibility out of the kernel and into a set of dll's that the kernel loads as needed	Dec 27 07:41
DaemonFC	they were sick of dealing with the mess their application compatibility hacks were making	Dec 27 07:42
DaemonFC	*came out	Dec 27 07:42
DaemonFC	the thought that they had to maintain kernel-level hacks to deal with quirks from old versions of other companies software is hilarious	Dec 27 07:44
ender2070	http://www.pwnage.ca/?p=516	Dec 27 07:49
phIRCe-local	Title: Pwnage.ca » Evangelism is War The Mono/Moonlight Agenda .::. Size~: 29.75 KB	Dec 27 07:49
ender2070	[02:28] <DaemonFC> Windows has been on almost as many architectures as Linux over the years	Dec 27 07:49
ender2070	wrong	Dec 27 07:49
DaemonFC	x86, x86-64, mips, IA-64, PowerPC	Dec 27 07:50
DaemonFC	that's the ones I can remember	Dec 27 07:50
DaemonFC	oh, the Alpha	Dec 27 07:50
ender2070	those are the only ones windows supports	Dec 27 07:50
ender2070	PowerPC windows?	Dec 27 07:50
ender2070	no	Dec 27 07:50
DaemonFC	yes, it was on PPC until Windows 2000 Beta 4	Dec 27 07:51
ender2070	and currently?	Dec 27 07:51
DaemonFC	currently still on the PPC as XENOS	Dec 27 07:51
ender2070	is that Windows?	Dec 27 07:51
DaemonFC	the XBOX 360's operating system	Dec 27 07:51
ender2070	what about: ARM, Sparc, Sparc64	Dec 27 07:52
DaemonFC	Windows Mobile is ARM, but not the same kernel	Dec 27 07:52
ender2070	windows mobile isnt even windows	Dec 27 07:53
DaemonFC	the only desktop version that ever made them any money is x86(-64)	Dec 27 07:53
DaemonFC	so that's the only survivor	Dec 27 07:53
DaemonFC	they discontinued IA-64 when HP stopped selling Itanium workstations in 2005	Dec 27 07:54
DaemonFC	Windows XP 64-bit Edition	Dec 27 07:54
ender2070	armel,hppa,mips,mipsel,s390 ?	Dec 27 07:55
DaemonFC	there were some early betas of Windows 2000 that still had Alpha support, but only NT 4 was ever released for that	Dec 27 07:55
ender2070	you can still get linux for IA-64	Dec 27 07:55
DaemonFC	Windows XP 64-bit Edition was cut off immediately, no support from Microsoft from that point	Dec 27 07:56
ender2070	the bane of proprietary software	Dec 27 07:57
DaemonFC	it used the same driver for x86 to IA-64 emulation that Linux does	Dec 27 07:57
ender2070	"no support"	Dec 27 07:57
DaemonFC	Intel dual licensed it so that Microsoft didn't have to put any LGPL'd code in Windows	Dec 27 07:57
ender2070	ahh	Dec 27 07:59
*ender2070 has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Dec 27 08:07
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ender2070] Evangelism is War – The Mono/Moonlight Agenda - http://bit.ly/7xQwun - Read and retweet :)		Dec 27 08:12
phIRCe-local	Title: Pwnage.ca » Evangelism is War The Mono/Moonlight Agenda .::. Size~: 29.75 KB	Dec 27 08:12
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))		Dec 27 08:16
*DaemonFC has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.7a1pre/20091224050505]")		Dec 27 08:23
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp118-210-249-193.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 08:24
*Ender2070 (n=Ender207@bas1-toronto12-1128666469.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 08:25
*DaemonFC (n=chatzill@c-67-173-86-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 08:40
tessier	http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2009-12-27/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+DilbertDailyStrip+%28Dilbert+Daily+Strip%29&utm_content=Google+Reader	Dec 27 08:43
phIRCe-local	Title: Dilbert comic strip for 12/27/2009 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive. .::. Size~: 22.2 KB	Dec 27 08:43
Ender2070	hehe	Dec 27 09:00
DaemonFC	I'm blowing steam about my family	Dec 27 09:06
DaemonFC	I would say family structure, but that was held together with duct tape, chewing gum, and bondo and fell over 12 years ago	Dec 27 09:07
DaemonFC	you gotta watch out what you let those Jewish carpenters pull over on you	Dec 27 09:08
DaemonFC	I'll tell you what.... ;)	Dec 27 09:08
*kecskebak has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Dec 27 09:14
*kecskebak (n=kecskeba@dsl4E5CCB98.pool.t-online.hu) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 09:15
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] The IRA's culture of silence extended to child abuse \| Nick Cohen \| Comment is free \| The Observer http://tinyurl.com/yhna5sm		Dec 27 09:21
Ender2070	schestowitz - http://www.pwnage.ca/?p=516	Dec 27 09:32
phIRCe-local	Title: Pwnage.ca » Evangelism is War The Mono/Moonlight Agenda .::. Size~: 29.75 KB	Dec 27 09:32
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 09:35
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] ML2MST to cease Windows Support: http://tinyurl.com/yb77slv (official announcement).		Dec 27 09:39
phIRCe-local	Title: OSGEEX: ML2MST to cease Windows Support .::. Size~: 70.91 KB	Dec 27 09:39
schestowitz	Ender2070: thanks	Dec 27 09:41
*sebsebseb has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))		Dec 27 09:47
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] maybe the dude on the plane yesterday was trying to redefine a blow job, knowing it will always be connected to the crotch area		Dec 27 10:05
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 10:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Windows Users Left Vulnerable Over Christmas, as Usual http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/27/iis-vulnerable-over-christmas/		Dec 27 10:14
phIRCe-local	Title: Windows Users Left Vulnerable Over Christmas, as Usual \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 113.87 KB	Dec 27 10:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Loses Antitrust Case in #Wisconsin , to Pay Millions in Compensation http://ur1.ca/il1l		Dec 27 10:29
phIRCe-local	Title: Microsoft Loses Antitrust Case in Wisconsin, to Pay Millions in Compensation \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.93 KB	Dec 27 10:29
DaemonFC	Statistics suggest that roughly one in two Windows PCs is a zombie PC.	Dec 27 10:41
DaemonFC	Then there's lies and damned lies	Dec 27 10:41
DaemonFC	don't forget those :)	Dec 27 10:41
DaemonFC	schestowitz: Citing whoremongers trying to peddle their what-passes-for-antivirus pond scum doesn't help your cause	Dec 27 10:43
DaemonFC	they get $50 a copy or more for every person they scare	Dec 27 10:44
DaemonFC	antivirus costs more than the copy of Windows it runs on if you're stupid enough to pay for it	Dec 27 10:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] 55,000 #Gaza orphans demand Israel lift illegal blockade-A year from Israels massacre,caring4 Gaza orphans-Video http://ow.ly/Q5gL		Dec 27 10:44
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] #Gaza is 0.19% in trends, 4 hours to go http://tinyurl.com/ye2zpxe		Dec 27 10:44
DaemonFC	$200 for a full retain copy of Windows 7 Home Premium which is supported for 5 years.	Dec 27 10:45
DaemonFC	$300 to maintain an antivirus subscription for 5 years	Dec 27 10:45
DaemonFC	*retail	Dec 27 10:45
DaemonFC	so for your TCO, anti-virus like Trend Micro (you cited them), they would represent 3/5ths the cost of Windows if you get it retail and 600% the cost of Windows Home Premium OEM that came with the PC	Dec 27 10:47
DaemonFC	schestowitz: Panic = Profit	Dec 27 10:47
DaemonFC	Profit is directly proportional to the level of Panic they instill in people	Dec 27 10:48
fewa_	much more important is control	Dec 27 10:49
DaemonFC	when you consider that 90% or so of Windows sales are OEM, the anti-virus people are bigger gangsters than Microsoft	Dec 27 10:50
DaemonFC	for every dollar Microsoft makes, the anti-virus cartel probably makes five	Dec 27 10:50
fewa_	they are hardly gangsters	Dec 27 10:50
fewa_	much more like parasites	Dec 27 10:50
fewa_	or bottom feeders	Dec 27 10:50
fewa_	they have no control	Dec 27 10:51
fewa_	therefore they are not important	Dec 27 10:51
DaemonFC	ironic that parasites offer to take out the other parasites in exchange for some of your blood	Dec 27 10:51
fewa_	anyways you soil this channel so im not going to talk to you	Dec 27 10:52
DaemonFC	you have 4 pints? don't worrk, you'll still have 1 pint left after Microsoft and Norton suck you dry	Dec 27 10:52
DaemonFC	:)	Dec 27 10:52
DaemonFC	*worry	Dec 27 10:52
DaemonFC	$500 over 5 years to run Windows with Norton	Dec 27 10:53
DaemonFC	I'll just keep my OEM copy and free antivirus	Dec 27 10:53
*kecskebak has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Dec 27 10:53
DaemonFC	you gotta watch some of those free ones though, they miss a lot of viruses and detect keygens (cause they're paid to)	Dec 27 10:54
DaemonFC	Avast is corrupt like that	Dec 27 10:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Restricts the Use of Its Products in #India http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/27/microsoft-direct-income-push/		Dec 27 10:54
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] New Blog Post \| Easy Spell Checking On Drupal With Firefox \| The Digital Prism http://tinyurl.com/ydfxnbb		Dec 27 10:54
phIRCe-local	Title: Microsoft Restricts the Use of Its Products in India \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 112.56 KB	Dec 27 10:54
phIRCe-local	Title: Easy Spell Checking On Drupal With Firefox \| The Digital Prism .::. Size~: 11.17 KB	Dec 27 10:54
DaemonFC	schestowitz: I believe Microsoft Gold Partner Certification is one of the many delightful prizes to be found in the bottom of a box of Cracker Jacks	Dec 27 10:56
DaemonFC	you see every far east no name, "1 in 500 of our motherboards works" vendor stamping it on their website that's half in Chinese and loading at 1 KB /sec	Dec 27 10:58
DaemonFC	The infamous Weaselconn Macgyverboard in my other PC for instance	Dec 27 10:59
DaemonFC	Foxconn is a Gold Certified Partner	Dec 27 10:59
amarsh04	where I used to work, there were actually boxes with Foxconn printed on them in a server room	Dec 27 11:00
DaemonFC	iccck	Dec 27 11:00
amarsh04	I'm not used to seeing the brand name on paper/packaging at all	Dec 27 11:00
DaemonFC	I'd say avoid them, but they make them for other companies mostly	Dec 27 11:00
DaemonFC	so you never know	Dec 27 11:00
DaemonFC	I probably have one in this box	Dec 27 11:01
DaemonFC	their G33M-S takes the cake for worst board construction and buggiest BIOS I've ever seen in my life, amarsh04	Dec 27 11:01
amarsh04	I'm running an old BIOSTAR motherboard and a relatively new ASUS motherboard at home	Dec 27 11:02
DaemonFC	they fixed the bug after being screamed at by, well, everyone I incited after they basically told me to go fuck myself	Dec 27 11:02
DaemonFC	then a year later the board fails for no reason at all	Dec 27 11:03
DaemonFC	shrugs	Dec 27 11:03
DaemonFC	I have an MSI board in this	Dec 27 11:03
DaemonFC	MSI was mad because when I got people mad about the Foxconn bug, it was in their BOARDS FOR Intel G33s too, cause Foxconn made them	Dec 27 11:04
DaemonFC	acck	Dec 27 11:04
DaemonFC	sticky shift key :P	Dec 27 11:04
DaemonFC	they didn't want anyone to know that MSI boards were defective I guess, probably figured they could sit on it and blow people off as well	Dec 27 11:05
amarsh04	If a company won't take corrective action after constructive feedback, they deserve less than constructive feedback	Dec 27 11:05
DaemonFC	oh, the support representative got hateful with me, and sarcastic	Dec 27 11:06
DaemonFC	later the company's manager in China told me he was the "new guy" and had been "talked to about how he approached me"	Dec 27 11:06
DaemonFC	(I'm sure) oh well	Dec 27 11:07
amarsh04	I can accept a company might take a while to take corrective action, but I will not accept being lied to	Dec 27 11:07
DaemonFC	they said the board was ACPI compliant because Microsoft's test suite said so	Dec 27 11:07
DaemonFC	:)	Dec 27 11:08
DaemonFC	and that the board was "only certified for Windows Vista"	Dec 27 11:08
*fewa_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))		Dec 27 11:09
DaemonFC	sarcasm Ohhhh, well, if Microsoft says so, I guess it must be true...... Go tell it on the mountain!	Dec 27 11:09
DaemonFC	then another of Foxconn's managers said that board never made them much money anyway cause of the cost to produce and the royalties to Intel	Dec 27 11:10
amarsh04	I was impressed with Motorola when V.34 modems first came out because Motorola had two separate divisions (UDS and Codex) implementing V.34 modems from spec with only "clean room" communication between the two groups so that any unstated assumptions became apparent and documented in the V.34 Recommendation	Dec 27 11:10
DaemonFC	I try to avoid Motorola	Dec 27 11:11
DaemonFC	can't avoid their awful cable boxes though	Dec 27 11:11
DaemonFC	I never really was all that elated when a new modem came out	Dec 27 11:12
amarsh04	this was before they became commoditised... I had a Motorola Codex 3266 V.34 modem which was good but I lost it in the last year or so /-:	Dec 27 11:12
amarsh04	my stand-by dial-up modem is a Telebit Fastblazer 8840	Dec 27 11:12
DaemonFC	if I miss dial up for any reason, it's the price	Dec 27 11:13
DaemonFC	you can't beat the $10 a month	Dec 27 11:13
amarsh04	I could stay connected for months on end with my isp on dial-up	Dec 27 11:13
DaemonFC	yeah, people got pissed because I had the modem punch in the code to disable call waiting before it dialed out	Dec 27 11:14
DaemonFC	so they couldn't call in and knock me offline	Dec 27 11:14
DaemonFC	I need to get a phone that can only make outgoing calls	Dec 27 11:15
amarsh04	finally my adsl2+ connection is stable - been up 5 weeks at 12178/1014 kbit/s	Dec 27 11:15
DaemonFC	when I want to talk to you, I will call YOU	Dec 27 11:15
DaemonFC	:)	Dec 27 11:15
schestowitz	[10:43] <DaemonFC> schestowitz: Citing whoremongers trying to peddle their what-passes-for-antivirus pond scum doesn't help your cause	Dec 27 11:15
schestowitz	Did you read the posts	Dec 27 11:15
schestowitz	Microsoft says 1 in 3	Dec 27 11:15
DaemonFC	no more drop what I'm doing and answer the phone and it's a bill collector	Dec 27 11:15
DaemonFC	I'm going to strangle my mom for giving the hospital my REAL cell number when I had those seizures	Dec 27 11:16
amarsh04	Telstra dropped the listing for my GSM handset's number without asking or telling me. I'm still waiting on a written explanation many months later	Dec 27 11:16
DaemonFC	I was unconscious and couldn't stop her anyway I guess	Dec 27 11:17
DaemonFC	I don't have any insurance, tell them I don't have a phone	Dec 27 11:17
DaemonFC	I mean for shits sake, :P	Dec 27 11:17
amarsh04	I list my GSM handset's number on my web page and used to include in my usenet signature. I never had any unpleasant calls as a result, just a few computer publications calling very occasionally	Dec 27 11:18
DaemonFC	tell them I live under a bridge too while you're at at	Dec 27 11:18
schestowitz	You're better off convulsing in Cuba's streets	Dec 27 11:18
DaemonFC	they can send my bill there	Dec 27 11:18
schestowitz	You'd be treated better	Dec 27 11:18
schestowitz	They see a frantically-convulsing man as a client where you are	Dec 27 11:18
DaemonFC	schestowitz: I couldn't imagine being treated worse or getting billed more than I did over this	Dec 27 11:19
schestowitz	"Wow! Look at this injury, man.... think of all the money we can make!!" :-)	Dec 27 11:19
DaemonFC	here it's like not paying the bill after you eat the lobster	Dec 27 11:19
DaemonFC	the $6,000 lobster	Dec 27 11:19
schestowitz	It's like garage or a computer sho	Dec 27 11:19
schestowitz	Never leave them your computer	Dec 27 11:19
schestowitz	They'll use it as hostage to change anything	Dec 27 11:19
DaemonFC	my computer?	Dec 27 11:20
schestowitz	My mom was ripped off over a PSU	Dec 27 11:20
DaemonFC	just a power supply?	Dec 27 11:20
DaemonFC	buy a new one	Dec 27 11:20
schestowitz	Yeah	Dec 27 11:20
schestowitz	They exaggerate the issue	Dec 27 11:20
DaemonFC	it would have to be a $6,000 power supply then	Dec 27 11:20
DaemonFC	in my opinion	Dec 27 11:20
DaemonFC	:)	Dec 27 11:20
schestowitz	"Da best!"	Dec 27 11:20
DaemonFC	how did she go into the emergency room clutching her laptop?	Dec 27 11:21
DaemonFC	ambulance?	Dec 27 11:21
DaemonFC	paramedics?	Dec 27 11:21
DaemonFC	one of them probably took it	Dec 27 11:21
DaemonFC	I'm sure paramedics rip off people for all kinds of money	Dec 27 11:22
DaemonFC	what better victim than a coma patient, or a corpse?	Dec 27 11:22
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Let us all help in pushing #Gaza in the Twitter trends! #Gaza %0.19 so far, let us all support #Gaza!!		Dec 27 11:22
DaemonFC	you can't trust anyone	Dec 27 11:23
DaemonFC	especially not if you're unconscious	Dec 27 11:23
schestowitz	How about that 'reform'?	Dec 27 11:26
schestowitz	Big Insurance (like Big Tobacco) killed it	Dec 27 11:27
schestowitz	Fake protests, bribed people in Facebook	Dec 27 11:27
schestowitz	They paid for a coup	Dec 27 11:27
schestowitz	IMHO, this is white-collar crime	Dec 27 11:27
schestowitz	Some execs of Big Insurance should maybe be sentences to prison	Dec 27 11:27
schestowitz	It's a cartel	Dec 27 11:27
schestowitz	Time to treat it as such	Dec 27 11:27
DaemonFC	reform = buy it or else	Dec 27 11:28
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vista7 Limitations, Compatibility Issues, and Hype from the #Microsoft Ecosystem http://ur1.ca/il2n		Dec 27 11:35
phIRCe-local	Title: Vista 7 Limitations, Compatibility Issues, and Hype from the Microsoft Ecosystem \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 116.44 KB	Dec 27 11:35
schestowitz	it's like paying tax directly to a private company	Dec 27 11:36
*ThistleWeb has quit ("Lost terminal")		Dec 27 11:53
*_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 11:54
_goblin	oooh is Mr Steven J Vaughan-Nicolls going to get a respond post and a half. The guy has written a "leave Mono alone" article and mentioned my blog in it....	Dec 27 11:55
_goblin	http://blogs.computerworld.com/stop_piling_on_mono_already	Dec 27 11:55
phIRCe-local	Title: Stop piling on Mono already - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 143.25 KB	Dec 27 11:55
_goblin	written in July 08	Dec 27 11:55
_goblin	sorry 09	Dec 27 11:55
_goblin	Ive some new Mono material for an article so its only fair I mention his blog in it.	Dec 27 11:56
schestowitz	I remember it..	Dec 27 11:57
schestowitz	Well, he likes Novell/SUSE to	Dec 27 11:57
schestowitz	*too	Dec 27 11:57
schestowitz	Since like, forever.	Dec 27 11:57
_goblin	Ive just seen some links coming in from it.	Dec 27 11:57
_goblin	I refuse to allow him to misrepresent me as a Mono/Microsoft hater.	Dec 27 11:57
schestowitz	Seen that before...	Dec 27 11:58
_goblin	thats not the reason I dislike Mono. My dislike and refusal to use Mono has nothing to do with any allegations of patent traps or MS trojan horses.	Dec 27 11:58
schestowitz	Monty also...	Dec 27 11:58
schestowitz	They have words to exclude people	Dec 27 11:58
schestowitz	"Controversial"	Dec 27 11:58
schestowitz	"Hater"	Dec 27 11:58
_goblin	to be fair I could care less about patent traps (in respect on my own usage or non usage of it)	Dec 27 11:59
schestowitz	"Contrarian"	Dec 27 11:59
schestowitz	"Activist"	Dec 27 11:59
schestowitz	It's not about patents	Dec 27 11:59
_goblin	I wish I had seen that at the time....not sure how it sliped my radar.	Dec 27 11:59
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/10/14/mono-common-misconceptions/	Dec 27 11:59
_goblin	he suggests in his article it is.	Dec 27 11:59
phIRCe-local	Title: Monos #1 Problem is Not Software Patents \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 110.95 KB	Dec 27 11:59
schestowitz	Also newer: http://www.pwnage.ca/?p=516	Dec 27 12:00
phIRCe-local	Title: Pwnage.ca » Evangelism is War The Mono/Moonlight Agenda .::. Size~: 29.75 KB	Dec 27 12:00
schestowitz	That's from Ender2070	Dec 27 12:00
_goblin	Quote Steven "The biggest real concern about Mono is that Microsoft could somehow use it to launch a patent attack against Linux. I don't see it."	Dec 27 12:00
_goblin	and I would say, niether do it.	Dec 27 12:00
_goblin	*I	Dec 27 12:00
_goblin	I am very cross he could misrepresent me like this, but even more cross that I didn't see the article at the time.	Dec 27 12:01
_goblin	BTW Roy, you seen the MS Azure account engaging in conversation with me on Twitter?	Dec 27 12:01
*DaemonFC has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Dec 27 12:02
_goblin	Ive got to go for most of the day, but I'll be responding this afternoon in regards to Steven and I will be setting some records straight (again) where people cannot be trusted to represent others in an honest way.	Dec 27 12:03
_goblin	Like many of the Linxxx they are like children and need constant supervision.	Dec 27 12:03
*kecskebak (n=kecskeba@dsl4E5CC7EA.pool.t-online.hu) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 12:03
_goblin	Oh and before I go, yet another dubious Twitter account is created...this time for the Zune....I'll be covering all the new dodgy twitter accounts that have joined the "merry throng" recently.	Dec 27 12:06
_goblin	http://twitter.com/Zuneclub	Dec 27 12:06
*oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 12:06
phIRCe-local	Title: John Boyd (Zuneclub) on Twitter .::. Size~: 24.05 KB	Dec 27 12:06
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Drives Developers Away from #WindowsMobile http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/27/developers-flee-windows-mobile/		Dec 27 12:06
_goblin	- I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want to be part of any "club" Microsoft runs.	Dec 27 12:06
phIRCe-local	Title: Microsoft Drives Developers Away from Windows Mobile \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 111.43 KB	Dec 27 12:07
schestowitz	Was on phone..	Dec 27 12:07
schestowitz	Invited, declined...	Dec 27 12:07
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving")		Dec 27 12:07
schestowitz	Well, Microsoft dos hire companies to tweet	Dec 27 12:07
schestowitz	I showed some new contracts last week	Dec 27 12:08
schestowitz	They should have the FTC unleashed on them	Dec 27 12:08
schestowitz	It's AstroTurfing, it's not marketing	Dec 27 12:08
amarsh04	have you looked at http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2009122612211929 yet schestowitz?	Dec 27 12:19
phIRCe-local	Title: Groklaw - Finishing up the Comes Collection - Please Can You Help? .::. Size~: 43.45 KB	Dec 27 12:19
MinceR	http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20091227	Dec 27 12:27
schestowitz	amarsh04: they do something similar to ours	Dec 27 12:39
schestowitz	Hopefully no duplication of effort there	Dec 27 12:39
oiaohm	Really the is valid reason to duplicate that record.	Dec 27 12:39
oiaohm	there	Dec 27 12:39
oiaohm	MS did a lot to attempt to exterminate the Comes Collection from existance.	Dec 27 12:40
oiaohm	MS is really having failure after failure since that case.	Dec 27 12:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] RT @UpbeatNow Why some smart people are reluctant to share? \| Life Beyond Code http://bit.ly/55Og93 - relevant to #wikipedia		Dec 27 12:41
schestowitz	amarsh04: "We have loads of exhibits as plain text right here, as well as in many other posts. There is a lot of room for reuse." http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=2009122612211929&title=Reuse&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=0#c809914	Dec 27 12:41
phIRCe-local	Title: Why some smart people are reluctant to share? \| Life Beyond Code .::. Size~: 47.51 KB	Dec 27 12:41
phIRCe-local	Title: Groklaw - Digging for Truth .::. Size~: 35.55 KB	Dec 27 12:41
amarsh04	the sealing or destruction of evidence of a case that affected most direct and indirect computer users just seems wrong to me	Dec 27 12:42
amarsh04	thanks for the post schestowitz	Dec 27 12:43
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Companies That Facilitate #Microsoft ’s #Linux Extortion Still Close Partners of Microsoft http://ur1.ca/il42		Dec 27 12:43
schestowitz	Well, that's 'juistice'	Dec 27 12:43
phIRCe-local	Title: Companies That Facilitate Microsofts Linux Extortion Still Close Partners of Microsoft \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 111.12 KB	Dec 27 12:43
MinceR	http://www.cracked.com/photoshop_63_if-everything-was-made-by-microsoft_p10#slide	Dec 27 12:43
phIRCe-local	Title: If Everything Was Made by Microsoft \| Cracked.com .::. Size~: 92.99 KB	Dec 27 12:43
oiaohm	The thing with the Comes Collection it gave detailed examples of how MS did business.	Dec 27 12:44
schestowitz	amarsh04: she already knows about it	Dec 27 12:44
oiaohm	So giving partners ways to understand MS intentions in advance.	Dec 27 12:44
schestowitz	I thought others might check before they transcribe something that can just be copied and pasted from BN	Dec 27 12:44
oiaohm	Not something in a dog eat dog world you want your competitors using.	Dec 27 12:44
schestowitz	It's no properly of ours... just text extracted from 'public domain', so to speak	Dec 27 12:44
amarsh04	yes, as long as the text can be verified from genuine pdfs and videos	Dec 27 12:45
schestowitz	I also have an index that marbux mailed me	Dec 27 12:45
schestowitz	It's all there somewhere	Dec 27 12:45
schestowitz	There's no simple way to organise 9,000 exhibits that are e-mails, docs, sets of mails, some related, some not, all relating to a variety of topic with aliases	Dec 27 12:46
oiaohm	Funny enough pirate bay maintained a comes archive at one point.	Dec 27 12:46
schestowitz	I think BN has managed to extract most of the anti-Linux exhibits	Dec 27 12:46
oiaohm	One of the few legal things pirate bay was doing.	Dec 27 12:46
schestowitz	I care less about the rest, for issues of scope	Dec 27 12:46
schestowitz	oiaohm: yes, it did	Dec 27 12:46
schestowitz	That's how it spread in the first place	Dec 27 12:47
oiaohm	Really it would be good to get comes data into archive.org	Dec 27 12:47
schestowitz	_goblin: http://twitter.com/MS_RT_BOT/statuses/7088670168	Dec 27 12:47
phIRCe-local	Title: Twitter / Retweet MS: RT @GuamGuy RT @schestowit ... .::. Size~: 10.38 KB	Dec 27 12:47
schestowitz	See account	Dec 27 12:47
schestowitz	Shilling/bot	Dec 27 12:47
oiaohm	There are other bits in comes that are not exactly anti-linux that give examples of how MS does business.	Dec 27 12:48
schestowitz	Another one: http://twitter.com/windowsalert/statuses/7087070287	Dec 27 12:48
phIRCe-local	Title: Twitter / Windows Alert: RT @schestowitz #Windows U ... .::. Size~: 7.46 KB	Dec 27 12:48
oiaohm	Not friendly to say the least.	Dec 27 12:48
MinceR	(animated) http://www.cracked.com/photoshop_63_if-everything-was-made-by-microsoft_p1#slide	Dec 27 12:48
phIRCe-local	Title: If Everything Was Made by Microsoft \| Cracked.com .::. Size~: 92.53 KB	Dec 27 12:48
oiaohm	Really comes caused intel to get more involed in Linux development. Because it showed that MS was not really planing to be friendly to them.	Dec 27 12:49
oiaohm	It would be fun to time line the outcome of comes with the downfall of MS.	Dec 27 12:51
*PetoKraus (n=pk@fsf/member/petokraus) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 12:51
schestowitz	It's still being used a lot	Dec 27 12:53
schestowitz	Comes exhibits that is	Dec 27 12:53
oiaohm	Trust is a key part of staying in business	Dec 27 13:12
schestowitz	Antitrust....	Dec 27 13:20
oiaohm	Antitrust cases don't help companies stay in business. The people dealing with them will not trust them as much and more likely to assist a competitor.	Dec 27 13:21
kecskebak	Did anyone listen to the latest Ubuntu UK Podcast?	Dec 27 13:25
kecskebak	Talking about Silverlight / Moonlight	Dec 27 13:25
kecskebak	"At last a real Microsoft Open Source application..."	Dec 27 13:25
kecskebak	"Watch the Winter Olympics on Ubuntu" Yeah, right...	Dec 27 13:26
oiaohm	God	Dec 27 13:26
oiaohm	Its not really open source while MS hold the cards to revoke the licence.	Dec 27 13:26
oiaohm	Some of the ubuntu guy are legal morons.	Dec 27 13:27
kecskebak	That's a typical Ubuntu attitude to software freedom, sadly	Dec 27 13:28
oiaohm	Problem is most of them have no clues what freedom is.	Dec 27 13:29
oiaohm	So will have to learn the leason the hard way.	Dec 27 13:29
kecskebak	I think the attraction of GNU/Linux in the UK is it crashes less or you don't have anti-virus	Dec 27 13:31
kecskebak	The software freedom part is seen as rather eccentric and for geeks	Dec 27 13:31
kecskebak	Anyone who believes in anything in the UK tends to be regarded as rather suspicious	Dec 27 13:31
kecskebak	That's why Richard Dawkins gets a kicking in the press	Dec 27 13:31
oiaohm	Software freedom is about data protection kecskebak	Dec 27 13:32
oiaohm	I want to be able to access anything I create in the future.	Dec 27 13:32
kecskebak	Yes - that's precisely why I moved from Flash to Inkscape	Dec 27 13:32
oiaohm	If you don't have direct control over the software you don't have direct control of your data so you are in a invisable jail with your data held hostage.	Dec 27 13:33
amarsh04	ms-publisher has been a real trap that way	Dec 27 13:33
oiaohm	That is what the freedom is about. Not having your data at ransom.	Dec 27 13:33
kecskebak	When Adobe decided to charge the UK users twice the USA price for Flash I realised that I was being taken for a mug.	Dec 27 13:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: TSA locks down air transport for your own good http://newstechnica.com/?p=976		Dec 27 13:33
phIRCe-local	Title: TSA locks down air transport for your own good \| NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 38.02 KB	Dec 27 13:34
kecskebak	It was Adobe and not Microsoft that made me start to think about free software.	Dec 27 13:34
oiaohm	Ie you had to learn the hardway kecskebak	Dec 27 13:34
oiaohm	This is normal.	Dec 27 13:34
kecskebak	Yes, sadly	Dec 27 13:34
oiaohm	I had used a nice grapical create program back in the 1992 company ceased to exist.	Dec 27 13:34
oiaohm	And many years latter the program would not run and I lost my data.	Dec 27 13:34
oiaohm	Then control over software to access my data become important.	Dec 27 13:35
oiaohm	Really we need some better term than freedom to describe it.	Dec 27 13:35
oiaohm	But the english language is limited.	Dec 27 13:35
amarsh04	"data held hostage"?	Dec 27 13:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Groklaw Suspects #Microsoft May be Behind Neon’s Attack on #GNU #Linux in #Mainframes http://ur1.ca/il65		Dec 27 13:37
phIRCe-local	Title: Groklaw Suspects Microsoft May be Behind Neons Attack on GNU/Linux in Mainframes \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 120.9 KB	Dec 27 13:37
kecskebak	I managed to get my most important artwork out of Flash as .ai files and then convert them to .svg with uniconvertor	Dec 27 13:39
kecskebak	Now I've got to do something similar with my Fireworks format png files	Dec 27 13:40
oiaohm	png why is a cleanly documented format accessable in almost any good editor kecskebak	Dec 27 13:41
kecskebak	Yes, but Fireworks uses proprietary extensions to png	Dec 27 13:41
oiaohm	Ie have they extended the format some way strange.	Dec 27 13:41
kecskebak	In a similar way that there are plain svg and Inkscape svg, there are plain png and Fireworks png	Dec 27 13:42
kecskebak	The Fireworks extensions make the png file editable in Fireworks	Dec 27 13:42
oiaohm	Inkscapes svgs are still fully inside spec.	Dec 27 13:42
MinceR	it's original Adobe Standards Compliance(tm), then?	Dec 27 13:43
MinceR	we know their commitment for portability and interoperability well	Dec 27 13:43
oiaohm	Inkscape uses more of the svg spec than most applications but hey.	Dec 27 13:43
kecskebak	Yes, I know Inkscapes are inside the spec, but IIRC Fireworks' extensions are only useful in Fireworks	Dec 27 13:43
*satipera (i=4e91669a@gateway/web/freenode/x-mvlepzykfqwjfpsh) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 13:43
oiaohm	Interested first time I have heard of some company hiding extra data in png that is not in spec.	Dec 27 13:44
kecskebak	http://www.adobe.com/support/fireworks/export/fw_export_vs_sav/fw_export_vs_sav02.html	Dec 27 13:44
phIRCe-local	Title: Macromedia Fireworks - Exporting and saving files: The Fireworks file paradigm .::. Size~: 25.31 KB	Dec 27 13:44
kecskebak	If you look at the bottom paragraph	Dec 27 13:44
satipera	has anyone listened to the last uk ubuntu podcast? I have just listened to the first 10 mins anyone else annoyed?	Dec 27 13:45
kecskebak	satipera: We've just been talking about that podcast	Dec 27 13:45
kecskebak	About the Silverlight plug	Dec 27 13:45
kecskebak	What annoyed you?	Dec 27 13:45
satipera	good I am not the only one very pissed off	Dec 27 13:45
satipera	what anoyed me was the plug for propriety ford sync ms software	Dec 27 13:47
satipera	takes a deep breath	Dec 27 13:47
kecskebak	Floss Weekly is plugging that hard too IIRC	Dec 27 13:48
satipera	yes I know	Dec 27 13:48
satipera	but i am not surprised by uk ubuntu not even batting an eyelid	Dec 27 13:49
oiaohm	I find it interesting that Neon is appearing at the same time SCO looks to go by by schestowitz	Dec 27 13:49
satipera	uk ubuntu are a mm away from being deleted from my podcast list	Dec 27 13:50
Diablo-D3	satipera: see	Dec 27 13:50
Diablo-D3	my way of life is better	Dec 27 13:50
Diablo-D3	I have no podcast list at all.	Dec 27 13:50
Diablo-D3	:D	Dec 27 13:50
kecskebak	It's quite an entertaining pod provided you don't expect it to be about free software or software freedom	Dec 27 13:51
satipera	but this episode has been a major wtf? for me	Dec 27 13:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Is anyone else getting Chromium 4.0.282.0 (35277) doing weird shit interacting with the window manager? Odd maximisations.		Dec 27 13:52
schestowitz	oiaohm: the case would be cheap to Microsoft	Dec 27 13:53
satipera	how much pressure is on these people?	Dec 27 13:53
schestowitz	It's a small company	Dec 27 13:53
schestowitz	SCO cost them just $30 million	Dec 27 13:53
schestowitz	The loss to IBM and Linux can be like $3 billion	Dec 27 13:53
schestowitz	But then again, Microsoft is a criminal company. As the saying goes (tortoise and scorpion), "it's their nature"	Dec 27 13:54
schestowitz	Look at who runs the company	Dec 27 13:54
schestowitz	!google ballmer goes insane	Dec 27 13:54
phIRCe-local	[1] - MetaData: Steve Ballmer Is Insane - Forbes.com \| http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/13/steve-ballmer-retail-technology-personal-tech_0213_microsoft.html	Dec 27 13:54
phIRCe-local	[2] - steve ballmer insane - Re: Steve Ballmer is cracking up \| http://www.stylusstudio.com/xmldev/200106/post10760.html	Dec 27 13:54
phIRCe-local	[3] - Ballmer calls Google's growth plans 'insane' - CNET News \| http://news.cnet.com/2100-1014_3-6167710.html	Dec 27 13:54
phIRCe-local	[4] - Steve Ballmer Goes Nuts (Again) To Sell Windows \| http://digg.com/microsoft/Steve_Ballmer_Goes_Nuts_Again_To_Sell_Windows	Dec 27 13:54
satipera	I thought i was quite relaxed about these things and was a mere observer, not so sure now.	Dec 27 13:55
*satipera has quit ("Page closed")		Dec 27 14:02
*satipera (i=4e91669a@gateway/web/freenode/x-xbtnysybauxlwcjq) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 14:02
*satipera has quit (Client Quit)		Dec 27 14:02
*satipera (i=4e91669a@gateway/web/freenode/x-hdyugmloezztwqxt) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 14:03
*MinceR has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)		Dec 27 14:06
satipera	roy i do not know anything about how you organise your news gathering, but roughly how do you do it?	Dec 27 14:06
*MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 14:07
satipera	is it bottom up or bottom up by area?	Dec 27 14:08
schestowitz	I start with the references	Dec 27 14:09
satipera	I was thinking of an amnesty international model plus global	Dec 27 14:10
schestowitz	Then I connect to existing facts	Dec 27 14:10
schestowitz	By chalking up some words and stuff, then I glue it together	Dec 27 14:10
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] I appear to have lots of happy http://newstechnica.com/ readers but not a lot of commenters ...		Dec 27 14:10
phIRCe-local	Title: NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 46.73 KB	Dec 27 14:10
schestowitz	So in a way there is never a "blank page" syndrome	Dec 27 14:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard you don't need them		Dec 27 14:11
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ISO Should Withdraw #OOXML After #Microsoft and Alex Brown Lied About #Patents http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/27/remove-ooxml-from-iso/		Dec 27 14:17
phIRCe-local	Title: ISO Should Withdraw OOXML After Microsoft and Alex Brown Lied About Patents \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 114.15 KB	Dec 27 14:17
*MinceR has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)		Dec 27 14:18
*MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 14:18
satipera	what worries me is that we should get over the never say a word against word against me point. We should be like groups of people who are comfortable in themselves and do not need to fly a flag.	Dec 27 14:18
satipera	nothing worse than a chippy minority	Dec 27 14:19
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] بطاااااااااطس!!!!!		Dec 27 14:19
satipera	genuine grievences are not chippy	Dec 27 14:19
oiaohm	http://ask.slashdot.org/story/09/12/26/1520255/Preventing-My-Hosting-Provider-From-Rooting-My-Server	Dec 27 14:22
phIRCe-local	Title: Slashdot Ask Slashdot Story \| Preventing My Hosting Provider From Rooting My Server? .::. Size~: 182.87 KB	Dec 27 14:22
oiaohm	Boy some people don't get the basics.	Dec 27 14:22
oiaohm	Number 1 problem with no having your own servers. Is that they are not your own servers.	Dec 27 14:22
satipera	plus and minus are?	Dec 27 14:23
satipera	there must be some positive points	Dec 27 14:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz they're validation from humans! hits are nice, comments are nice too!		Dec 27 14:23
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz I'm doing this to entertain people, of course I want applause :-)		Dec 27 14:24
satipera	not convinced	Dec 27 14:25
oiaohm	The plus is you don't have to do the 24 hour maintain satipera	Dec 27 14:26
oiaohm	Basically you use a server that is not yours you have accept that it could be rooted.	Dec 27 14:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] More PC gone mad! Bingo caller told to cut 'fat ladies' patter by council http://tinyurl.com/yjuc8aq		Dec 27 14:26
phIRCe-local	Title: BBC News - Bingo caller told to cut 'fat ladies' patter by council .::. Size~: 46.87 KB	Dec 27 14:26
Diablo-D3	oiaohm: btw	Dec 27 14:27
Diablo-D3	I was bithcing about that slashdot story earlier	Dec 27 14:27
Diablo-D3	the guys a fucktard, basically	Dec 27 14:27
Diablo-D3	hes paying for managed service, and hes bitching when they do it	Dec 27 14:27
Diablo-D3	hes also paying for a dedi, and bitching about that they're doing service on a dedi	Dec 27 14:28
Diablo-D3	hes also bitching about they rebooted it into single user mode since he was being a dick	Dec 27 14:28
Diablo-D3	AND	Dec 27 14:28
Diablo-D3	its also in his service agreement	Dec 27 14:28
Diablo-D3	so they're totally 100% in the right	Dec 27 14:28
Diablo-D3	submitter is a fucktard	Dec 27 14:28
oiaohm	Some server farms allow you to own the servers placed in them.	Dec 27 14:28
oiaohm	But they come with conditions like you have to provide your own reserve servers and the like to be turned on.	Dec 27 14:29
oiaohm	and pay for shipping of servers to you for repair.	Dec 27 14:29
satipera	I knew there must be :) you people carry on doing ewhat you are doing if i voted i would vote for someone of a simmilar persuasion.	Dec 27 14:29
oiaohm	Its simple if you don't own the server its not yours you have not a legal leg to stand on in most cases when they root it.	Dec 27 14:30
oiaohm	The basics are the basics.	Dec 27 14:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Ex-primate condemns call to steal - Isn't a primate a monkey? If so, we're all evolved ex-primates http://tinyurl.com/yemopvl		Dec 27 14:31
phIRCe-local	Title: Ex-primate condemns call to steal - Channel 4 News .::. Size~: 33.12 KB	Dec 27 14:31
*trmanco (n=trmanco@unaffiliated/trmanco) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 14:33
oiaohm	Also there is a down side to using your own hardware as well in a server farm since they cannot take root access they can not virus disinfect so if you machines got infected they have no option bar to take them off line satipera	Dec 27 14:34
oiaohm	Basically everything in hosting is trading one advantage off against another.	Dec 27 14:34
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Dec 27 14:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Let us all support #George #Galloway and the #Sherian-Alhaya convoy!! Let them in!! Let them break the illegal siege on #Gaza!!		Dec 27 14:40
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Even During Christmas, the Multiple-times Convicted Monopolists Spur Attacks on #OLPC Charity http://ur1.ca/ilak		Dec 27 14:47
phIRCe-local	Title: Even During Christmas, the Multiple-times Convicted Monopolists Spur Attacks on OLPC Charity \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 112.45 KB	Dec 27 14:47
*satipera has quit ("Page closed")		Dec 27 15:03
*phIRCe-local has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)		Dec 27 15:22
*phIRCe-local (n=b0t@cg070c.halls.manchester.ac.uk) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 15:31
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #gNewSense Abandons #Ubuntu , #Microsoft ’s #Mono Agenda Revisited http://boycottnovell.com/2009/12/27/shafting-mono-and-moonlight/		Dec 27 15:36
phIRCe-local	Title: gNewSense Abandons Ubuntu, Microsofts Mono Agenda Revisited \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 119.88 KB	Dec 27 15:36
schestowitz	bbl	Dec 27 15:37
PetoKraus	good article	Dec 27 15:44
PetoKraus	the one on the source	Dec 27 15:45
*phIRCe-local has quit (lindbohm.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)		Dec 27 15:47
*ansak (i=cdfa3d36@gateway/web/freenode/x-uojhbhrgrazzsxzc) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 15:54
ansak	404 on http://boycottnovell.com/about/	Dec 27 15:55
ansak	"What can I do?" section...	Dec 27 15:55
ansak	Sign Bruce Perens’ Open Letter to Novell which serves as a petition.	Dec 27 15:55
ansak	Link to "Open Letter to Novell" is awol	Dec 27 15:56
ansak	given as http://techp.org/petition/show/1	Dec 27 15:56
ansak	happy hol's all's...	Dec 27 15:56
*ansak has quit (Client Quit)		Dec 27 15:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] Support Gaza Freedom March 2010, add a #twibbon to your avatar now! - http://bit.ly/6cFXLi		Dec 27 15:57
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] #Gaza!! We will never forget you!! #Gaza is in our hearts! #Gaza #Gaza #Gaza #Gaza!!!!		Dec 27 15:59
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 16:30
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[anivar] watching play pachcha @ afro asian theatre festival in thrissur, kerala		Dec 27 16:40
Ender2070	[05:49] <DaemonFC> schestowitz: I believe Microsoft Gold Partner Certification is one of the many delightful prizes to be found in the bottom of a box of Cracker Jacks - AMD is one	Dec 27 16:43
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))		Dec 27 16:44
*asdf_ (i=5496c485@gateway/web/freenode/x-rhqqeemvwmaaxdfm) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 16:45
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Are Midget Gems made by real midgets? http://tinyurl.com/yke9njk		Dec 27 16:53
Ender2070	schestowitz - ty for the link	Dec 27 16:57
Ender2070	didnt even realize it was so long till after I wrote it	Dec 27 17:02
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp118-210-249-193.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 17:07
*amarsh04 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))		Dec 27 17:24
Ender2070	http://slashdot.org/submission/1140826/Evangelism-is-War-ndash-The-MonoMoonlight-Agend	Dec 27 17:26
*amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@ppp118-210-249-193.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 17:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Rocknerd: The occult symbolism of the Video Music awards. http://is.gd/5DsiZ (HT @_soliloquy_ )		Dec 27 18:05
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] I have now heard At The Drive In. Fugazi-Lite-Lite is surplus to the world. Are Mars Volta any more worthwhile?		Dec 27 18:10
schestowitz	Ender2070: yes, voted up.	Dec 27 18:14
schestowitz	Groklaw published that after I had mailed her some text, weeks before the BRM corruption IIRC	Dec 27 18:14
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard I applaud quietly		Dec 27 18:15
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Tuxera	Dec 27 18:25
*phIRCe-local (n=b0t@cg070c.halls.manchester.ac.uk) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 18:26
phIRCe-local	Hello World!	Dec 27 18:26
*kecskebak has quit ("Ex-Chat")		Dec 27 18:46
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Anyone seeking a free webhost that's down as often as up should check out these Freebeehosting.com http://tinyurl.com/yhaqclj		Dec 27 18:53
phIRCe-local	Title: Welcome to FreeBeeHosting - 100% Free Web Hosting with Absolutely No Forced Advertisements .::. Size~: 18.47 KB	Dec 27 18:53
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] if you time it right, you'll sign up when they're up; think of it like a platform game where you have to time jumping to a moving platform		Dec 27 18:59
*ThistleWeb has quit ("Lost terminal")		Dec 27 19:01
*mak90 (n=apple@117.98.42.254) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 19:34
*mak90 (n=apple@117.98.42.254) has left #boycottnovell		Dec 27 19:34
_goblin	So is the general view now one of avoiding Ubuntu?	Dec 27 19:40
_goblin	Having read the comments by others and in particular gNewsense....I wonder what the mainstream decision will be?	Dec 27 19:41
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] I've begun organising many posts about companies like TomTom and Samsung. http://ur1.ca/ilqs http://ur1.ca/ilqt		Dec 27 19:45
phIRCe-local	Title: TomTom - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 23.75 KB	Dec 27 19:46
phIRCe-local	Title: Samsung - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 23.27 KB	Dec 27 19:46
schestowitz	_goblin: no, why?	Dec 27 19:48
_goblin	Im just wondering what the fallout from gNewsense going debian will be....	Dec 27 19:48
schestowitz	Oh, nm, I read your second message	Dec 27 19:48
schestowitz	No, it's not Ubuntu's fault	Dec 27 19:49
schestowitz	It's being used by the Mono boosters	Dec 27 19:49
schestowitz	They want .NET to be common	Dec 27 19:49
schestowitz	And SIlver Lie	Dec 27 19:49
_goblin	maybe not.....but how many Ubuntu users are recent Windows converts glad to be rid of MS bloat.	Dec 27 19:49
schestowitz	So people like Jo lean on projects like Ubuntu to impose it on UnwashedMasses(R)	Dec 27 19:49
*Balrog (n=Balrog@pool-74-109-70-59.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 19:49
_goblin	Jo Shields?	Dec 27 19:49
schestowitz	Compare /w Driva and Fedora	Dec 27 19:50
schestowitz	_goblin: no	Dec 27 19:50
schestowitz	Jo Chicken	Dec 27 19:50
_goblin	You know about the Mars project and Silverlight dont you?	Dec 27 19:50
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Chromium spent all day being broken, new version showed up in PPA, same ver no but is so far behaving better ...		Dec 27 19:50
cubezzz	another good thing about fc1	Dec 27 19:51
cubezzz	no mono :)	Dec 27 19:51
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @davidgerard What build are you using? I thought the re-size issue was fixed by build 4.0.283.0		Dec 27 19:51
schestowitz	Mars?	Dec 27 19:52
schestowitz	Oh	Dec 27 19:52
schestowitz	That.	Dec 27 19:52
schestowitz	NASA	Dec 27 19:52
schestowitz	Be a Martian	Dec 27 19:52
_goblin	yea...	Dec 27 19:52
schestowitz	I wrote about it twice	Dec 27 19:52
_goblin	sorry, missed it....I was loathed to give it any publicity.....	Dec 27 19:52
schestowitz	Taxpayers fund attack on self	Dec 27 19:52
cubezzz	ok, is the world getting better or not? :)	Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz	MSBBC covered it	Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz	cubezzz: no	Dec 27 19:53
cubezzz	why not?	Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz	Now Bill&Steve try to conquer another planet	Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz	I say, "send them to sun"	Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz	Mind case	Dec 27 19:53
cubezzz	good grief, which one this time?	Dec 27 19:53
schestowitz	The hot ball	Dec 27 19:54
schestowitz	The "lamp in the sky"	Dec 27 19:54
schestowitz	With wings of wax	Dec 27 19:54
cubezzz	I think if you study history you will change your mind	Dec 27 19:54
cubezzz	things are much better now than 100 years ago	Dec 27 19:54
cubezzz	it's just one lifetime isn't enough experience	Dec 27 19:55
schestowitz	I was joking	Dec 27 19:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @_Goblin 4.0.282.0 (35277) still		Dec 27 19:56
schestowitz	But I also think that things always seem to be improving	Dec 27 19:57
schestowitz	Cause you are born into a convention	Dec 27 19:57
schestowitz	If someone from 1800 saw slaves as free and slavery as illegal, s/he would possible thing that we went backwards	Dec 27 19:57
schestowitz	Same for women as not being objects	Dec 27 19:57
schestowitz	From today's perspective, based on upbringing, we see it as truism that sexism and slavery are wrong	Dec 27 19:58
cubezzz	I doubt the slaves or women would think that though	Dec 27 19:58
schestowitz	Truth and lies are a very subjective thing, but we can't quite see it	Dec 27 19:58
schestowitz	Is it OK to eat (kill) fish?	Dec 27 19:58
schestowitz	Is it OK to kill embryos?	Dec 27 19:58
schestowitz	These are not simple question	Dec 27 19:59
schestowitz	Some still consider contraception evil	Dec 27 19:59
cubezzz	it's OK to eat fish :)	Dec 27 19:59
schestowitz	Some still consider being gay blasphemous	Dec 27 19:59
schestowitz	cubezzz: but it's murder of fish	Dec 27 19:59
schestowitz	We're predator by nature, even plants	Dec 27 19:59
schestowitz	*predators	Dec 27 19:59
schestowitz	Our bodies kill germs all the time	Dec 27 19:59
cubezzz	germ is a rather vague term	Dec 27 20:00
schestowitz	Pinter on truth and falsehood. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY2Z27Y-HJE	Dec 27 20:00
cubezzz	as for your other points, it's an over populated world	Dec 27 20:01
cubezzz	over populated with humans	Dec 27 20:01
cubezzz	every problem always comes down to the same thing	Dec 27 20:02
cubezzz	bad management	Dec 27 20:02
cubezzz	lack of planning ahead	Dec 27 20:02
*apathy (i=paul@unaffiliated/apathy) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 20:02
schestowitz	There's none	Dec 27 20:02
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @davidgerard Ah...Problem still fixed though?		Dec 27 20:02
schestowitz	Ahead=next quarter	Dec 27 20:02
schestowitz	For shareholders	Dec 27 20:03
schestowitz	This way the people who run the show keep their job and villa	Dec 27 20:03
cubezzz	right, it's too short sighted	Dec 27 20:03
schestowitz	it's "free market"	Dec 27 20:03
schestowitz	Market forces farce	Dec 27 20:03
schestowitz	The ruin of culture	Dec 27 20:04
schestowitz	Assume your world is an infinite place to extract from and infinite garbage dump	Dec 27 20:04
cubezzz	that's why I admire Amish	Dec 27 20:05
cubezzz	very self-sufficient, very prudent, low comsumption society	Dec 27 20:05
cubezzz	consumption	Dec 27 20:06
cubezzz	there don't use gasoline	Dec 27 20:06
cubezzz	they don't use gasoline	Dec 27 20:06
schestowitz	http://www.huffingtonpost.com/janet-tavakoli/response-to-goldman-sachs_b_403582.html	Dec 27 20:06
phIRCe-local	Title: Janet Tavakoli: Responding to Goldman Sachs .::. Size~: 187.19 KB	Dec 27 20:06
cubezzz	now if one could take that idea and modernize it somehow, I think you would have something really good	Dec 27 20:07
schestowitz	cubezzz: any cooking?	Dec 27 20:07
schestowitz	Fire maybe?	Dec 27 20:07
cubezzz	I'm sure they cook their meals	Dec 27 20:07
schestowitz	cubezzz: business-run society wants you to hate Amish	Dec 27 20:07
schestowitz	Their culture is a disgraceful danger to consumerism	Dec 27 20:07
cubezzz	I've never seen a fat Amish person :)	Dec 27 20:07
schestowitz	It's hard to be fat	Dec 27 20:08
schestowitz	Unless you live in a developed and machanised society	Dec 27 20:08
cubezzz	I like to take the good ideas from multiple sources	Dec 27 20:08
schestowitz	Or if you're royalty	Dec 27 20:08
cubezzz	probably why I like FOSS so much	Dec 27 20:08
schestowitz	*mechanised	Dec 27 20:08
cubezzz	schestowitz, now that I'm a bit older and wiser I am far less materialistic	Dec 27 20:08
schestowitz	I have a new slogan for Bush:	Dec 27 20:09
cubezzz	almost nothing in the stores interests me	Dec 27 20:09
schestowitz	"Either you're with us, or you're with the Amish!"	Dec 27 20:09
schestowitz	cubezzz: you can't take anything w/ you 'upstairs'	Dec 27 20:09
cubezzz	true	Dec 27 20:09
schestowitz	Neither money nor shiny vehicles, which are just arrangements of material around you	Dec 27 20:10
cubezzz	heh	Dec 27 20:10
schestowitz	Health is the atoms that make you	Dec 27 20:10
cubezzz	also they make their own furniture	Dec 27 20:10
schestowitz	Some people care about their car's health and bank account more than tuheir body	Dec 27 20:10
schestowitz	That's why they have a nervoud breakdown, don't sleep, get cancer, or whatever	Dec 27 20:10
schestowitz	BUT...	Dec 27 20:10
cubezzz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_furniture	Dec 27 20:10
phIRCe-local	Title: Amish furniture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 25.39 KB	Dec 27 20:10
schestowitz	They at least have a nice bank balance	Dec 27 20:10
cubezzz	yes, it seems rather pointless	Dec 27 20:11
schestowitz	But it's how many people think	Dec 27 20:11
schestowitz	School train them to think towards working the cogwheels of big business that they must admire	Dec 27 20:11
schestowitz	it's all true, no spin here	Dec 27 20:11
schestowitz	But it has benefits, not just drawbacks	Dec 27 20:11
schestowitz	Depends on how you look at this grid/framework	Dec 27 20:12
cubezzz	the younger ones I talk to in here often tell me they learned windows in school	Dec 27 20:12
schestowitz	I'm sure Amish furniture is made by experts in their villages	Dec 27 20:12
cubezzz	I was before the dark ages of computing, so I guess I was fortunate	Dec 27 20:12
schestowitz	cubezzz: yes, they learn GIs	Dec 27 20:12
schestowitz	*GUIS	Dec 27 20:12
schestowitz	GUIs 101: how to click "start" or "Windows logo"	Dec 27 20:13
cubezzz	that's why, for me, talking to the younger gen is a bit difficult	Dec 27 20:13
schestowitz	GUIs 102: how to click on QWERTY keyboard and save it in Microsoft Word {version}	Dec 27 20:13
cubezzz	except in here of course	Dec 27 20:13
schestowitz	I usually talk to older people	Dec 27 20:14
cubezzz	so when did you start getting into FOSS?	Dec 27 20:14
schestowitz	2000	Dec 27 20:19
cubezzz	ok, Amish use wood stoves, but they are allowed to use a modern wood stove	Dec 27 20:19
cubezzz	so I assume no coal	Dec 27 20:19
schestowitz	Wood?	Dec 27 20:19
cubezzz	yes	Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz	It would burn	Dec 27 20:20
*pawel_121_ (n=quassel@82.177.199.102) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz	But OMG, how would they use the internets!!	Dec 27 20:20
cubezzz	they don't, most of the time they don't use electricity	Dec 27 20:20
cubezzz	All lighting is by candle or oil and gas lamp	Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz	Without the interwebs, people would knock their heads on the wall until they died !!	Dec 27 20:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @_Goblin cross fingers!		Dec 27 20:20
schestowitz	cubezzz: one could sleep	Dec 27 20:21
cubezzz	no TV either :)	Dec 27 20:21
schestowitz	As people did before artificial lighting or fire	Dec 27 20:21
schestowitz	cubezzz: no TV -> no propaganda	Dec 27 20:21
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @_Goblin I am using GNOME with Compiz, as it happens ...		Dec 27 20:21
cubezzz	some Amish do use electricity for dairy production	Dec 27 20:22
schestowitz	So they are like, talking to other people !!	Dec 27 20:22
cubezzz	basically electricity is only used for practical work	Dec 27 20:22
*Diablo-D3 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))		Dec 27 20:22
cubezzz	"Real horsepower" is used whenever possible. Included would be the moving of buggies, wagons and farm equipment.	Dec 27 20:22
schestowitz	I guess what they require is farming form food and construction	Dec 27 20:22
schestowitz	But they wouldn't last in Canada. Too cold.	Dec 27 20:22
cubezzz	they trade with others	Dec 27 20:22
cubezzz	not true schestowitz	Dec 27 20:23
cubezzz	they are in Ontario	Dec 27 20:23
schestowitz	I thought north US	Dec 27 20:23
schestowitz	Like Wisconsin/Ohio	Dec 27 20:23
cubezzz	yes	Dec 27 20:23
cubezzz	as well as Ontario	Dec 27 20:24
cubezzz	Wind, water and solar energy are also allowed as power sources	Dec 27 20:24
schestowitz	Sounds like they have a better life than young men who fight for Big Oil	Dec 27 20:24
schestowitz	IIRC, the French guy who invented antibiotics (maybe vaccines) lost 3 daughters to disease	Dec 27 20:25
schestowitz	Child mortality used to be a huge issue	Dec 27 20:25
cubezzz	I would agree with you there	Dec 27 20:25
schestowitz	Do Amish people go to hospitals?	Dec 27 20:25
cubezzz	schestowitz, yes	Dec 27 20:26
cubezzz	and dentists and eye doctors as needed	Dec 27 20:26
cubezzz	http://www.amish.net/faq.asp	Dec 27 20:26
phIRCe-local	Title: Ohio Amish furniture-Amish quilts-Amish country tourism. Shop craft stores and services online .::. Size~: 36.79 KB	Dec 27 20:26
schestowitz	Explaining the Amish Way of Life - VOA Story http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAgSCTdnrhk	Dec 27 20:26
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @davidgerard Same here, on my 9.10 rig I had issues in previous builds (I filed a report) however since the last build its been fine.		Dec 27 20:26
cubezzz	back in 1/2 hour, got to get some exercise	Dec 27 20:27
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Just looked at GrafX2 since its modeled on Dpaint. Had high hopes. v2.0 fails to open any files. Shame. #linux #foss		Dec 27 20:27
schestowitz	So they're from Germany and Switzerland, prosecuted	Dec 27 20:28
schestowitz	Al-Qaida fighters killed in Yemen air strikes http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/24/yemen-strike-al-qaida	Dec 27 20:31
schestowitz	http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2009/12/24/95158.html	Dec 27 20:34
phIRCe-local	Title: Middle East News \| Iraq Christians mark Christmas under threat .::. Size~: 30.71 KB	Dec 27 20:34
schestowitz	http://www.ainfos.ca/en/ainfos23380.html	Dec 27 20:34
schestowitz	http://openstack.blogspot.com/2009/12/openweb-12182009-am.html	Dec 27 20:38
phIRCe-local	Title: Open Stack: OpenWeb 12/18/2009 (a.m.) .::. Size~: 75.29 KB	Dec 27 20:38
schestowitz	http://insidesocal.com/click/2009/12/is-this-ubuntus-mission.html "But Ubuntu's popularity isn't solely based on technical excellence. To some extent the charismatic personality and large fortune of project creator Mark Shuttleworth is part of the draw." might be true..........	Dec 27 20:42
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Success Kid got the chicks from an early age. http://i.imgur.com/cz2H0.jpg #4chan		Dec 27 20:50
phIRCe-local	Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB	Dec 27 20:50
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@93.102.43.146.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 20:56
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @_Goblin whenever Chrom* opens a tab, it sends "window open" to the WM. I can tell 'cos the Compiz window goes BOING!!		Dec 27 20:57
*yuhong (n=chatzill@pool-96-253-143-208.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 21:06
yuhong	Pretty interesting twist on the definition of the word "abusive monopolist"	Dec 27 21:07
yuhong	http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1489882&cid=30552348	Dec 27 21:08
phIRCe-local	Title: Slashdot Comments \| Why Bite the Google Hand That Feeds You? .::. Size~: 43.34 KB	Dec 27 21:08
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] well, my blog is back up......for now, perhaps I'll do a review of FBH tomorrow		Dec 27 21:10
Ender2070	odd, this guy sounds like a pro mono dude	Dec 27 21:11
Ender2070	http://www.pwnage.ca/?p=516&cpage=1#comment-411	Dec 27 21:11
phIRCe-local	Title: Pwnage.ca » Evangelism is War The Mono/Moonlight Agenda .::. Size~: 34.34 KB	Dec 27 21:11
*yuhong has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.6/20091201220228]")		Dec 27 21:12
Ender2070	"This is OLD. And the idea that Microsoft adheres to their now-not-so-secret-anymore plan that they laid out decades ago is ludicrous. Stupid. Gah. Get out more often."	Dec 27 21:13
Ender2070	I would think Microsoft has plans that incorporate the old plans, with more advanced additions	Dec 27 21:14
*ThistleWeb (n=gordon@unaffiliated/thistleweb) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 21:20
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] Just watched The Way of the Gun again for the first time in a few years, excellent movie http://tinyurl.com/2kfa3		Dec 27 21:27
phIRCe-local	Title: The Way of the Gun (2000) .::. Size~: 67.32 KB	Dec 27 21:28
schestowitz	Ender2070: check out the comments: http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/42084	Dec 27 21:29
phIRCe-local	Title: Evangelism is War – The Mono/Moonlight Agenda \| tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 32.66 KB	Dec 27 21:29
schestowitz	Some of the anti-BN trolls are there	Dec 27 21:29
*Omar87 (n=quassel@86.108.41.88) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 21:30
Omar87	Hello everyone.	Dec 27 21:31
schestowitz	LOL Google labelled like Microsoft	Dec 27 21:31
schestowitz	Slashdot has Microsoft PR people in it	Dec 27 21:31
schestowitz	They told me	Dec 27 21:31
pawel_121_	schestowitz MS PR people are in many places	Dec 27 21:32
_goblin	Roy, if Silverlight 2 is being released by Microsoft as Open Source, what does that mean for Moonlight...? I am confused is it like a Chrome/Chromium relationship or have I got it all wrong.	Dec 27 21:32
schestowitz	"The very term ‘conspiracy theory’ deserves a Godwin like designation. Anyone who uses it in any context is by default opting out of any legitimate discussion of facts and their logical interpretation."	Dec 27 21:33
schestowitz	Indeed... reptilian Nazi conspiracy theorists!! /sarcasm	Dec 27 21:33
schestowitz	_goblin: it's not	Dec 27 21:33
schestowitz	Silver Lie is proprietary	Dec 27 21:34
schestowitz	It's also a lie	Dec 27 21:34
schestowitz	Microsoft tries to associate it with open source	Dec 27 21:34
pawel_121_	schestowitz people who say such bull about some terms like 'conspiracy theory' are people who want to shut other people mouths	Dec 27 21:34
_goblin	ok...even so.....where does that leave the Moonlight project? Have MS stabbed Novell in the back with this release? What incentive is there for anyone to get the Moonlight implimentation if they have no interest in the src?	Dec 27 21:35
schestowitz	pawel_121_: or to embarrass them	Dec 27 21:37
*sebsebseb (n=3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 21:37
schestowitz	_goblin: Microsoft makes Silverlight for Moblin, with Intel	Dec 27 21:37
schestowitz	Maybe you miss that news	Dec 27 21:37
schestowitz	Moon Lie is dead, in the bit bucket	Dec 27 21:37
sebsebseb	hi	Dec 27 21:37
pawel_121_	schestowitz yes	Dec 27 21:38
schestowitz	_goblin: you need to catch up, I think. You missed key developments	Dec 27 21:38
_goblin	schestowitz: I thought it was getting a "mainstream" linux release too......I knew about the moblin...	Dec 27 21:38
schestowitz	_goblin: http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/index.php/Moonlight	Dec 27 21:38
phIRCe-local	Title: Moonlight - Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 47.02 KB	Dec 27 21:38
schestowitz	Takes you right back to the start, too	Dec 27 21:38
_goblin	maybe I misread something somewhere....but I am sure I saw an article regarding Silverlight getting the desktop Linux treatment...	Dec 27 21:39
_goblin	and not in Moonlight form either.	Dec 27 21:39
schestowitz	No	Dec 27 21:39
schestowitz	That's Microsoft propaganda	Dec 27 21:39
schestowitz	That there is "Silverlight for Linux"	Dec 27 21:40
schestowitz	From the people who brought you, "Windows is on 96% of netbooks"	Dec 27 21:40
schestowitz	I call it Moon Lie because these things are all about lies	Dec 27 21:41
*PetoKraus has quit ("Leaving")		Dec 27 21:42
_goblin	bang...got it....since I never really saw Moonlight/Silverlight of much interest, I must have half read a feature on Moonlight.....	Dec 27 21:43
_goblin	currently covering Ylmf OS and its implications in regards to MS.	Dec 27 21:43
Ender2070	schestowitz - they didnt ping me, had no idea they linked :)	Dec 27 21:49
Ender2070	conspiracy theory isn't supposed to be such a negative term	Dec 27 21:50
Ender2070	a conspiracy is a group of 2 or more people who plan something	Dec 27 21:51
pawel_121_	Ender2070 yes it's a normal term	Dec 27 21:51
Ender2070	I think the movie "conspiracy theory" didn't help the term	Dec 27 21:52
pawel_121_	I can't say, because I didn't watch it :)	Dec 27 21:52
Ender2070	for younger people its probably the first place they heard the word	Dec 27 21:52
schestowitz	_goblin: support Linux browsers	Dec 27 21:53
pawel_121_	there are people/groups who want to give some terms a new meaning	Dec 27 21:53
pawel_121_	and this is usually bad	Dec 27 21:53
schestowitz	Google's Chrome OS has GNU/Linux, but Google is not committed to the GPL an AGPL	Dec 27 21:53
schestowitz	Google is also very scary to Web startups, unless it buys them	Dec 27 21:54
schestowitz	pawel_121_: didn't watch such a film either	Dec 27 21:54
schestowitz	It's the context in which the words get used	Dec 27 21:54
Ender2070	schestowitz - these commenters fail at reading comprehension	Dec 27 21:54
schestowitz	'Jihad" too can mean many things	Dec 27 21:54
schestowitz	People associate it with suicide/homocide	Dec 27 21:55
schestowitz	You can have a "Jihad" to win a girl's heart	Dec 27 21:55
schestowitz	Ender2070: no, the one called "eet" is our worse troll ever	Dec 27 21:55
schestowitz	Comparing me to Nazis and stuff...	Dec 27 21:55
schestowitz	He's MAD	Dec 27 21:55
Ender2070	eet is the dude who wrote that comment on my own blog	Dec 27 21:56
pawel_121_	Ender2070, such commenters usually fail at reading comprehension, but the problem is when they repeat same bull all the time	Dec 27 21:56
schestowitz	Ender2070: haha	Dec 27 21:56
Ender2070	I can tell by his writing	Dec 27 21:56
schestowitz	eally?	Dec 27 21:56
schestowitz	Under a different nym?	Dec 27 21:56
Ender2070	yes	Dec 27 21:56
schestowitz	He has used like 50 in BN	Dec 27 21:56
Ender2070	he uses the terms boring as well	Dec 27 21:56
schestowitz	He's a Novell shill	Dec 27 21:56
schestowitz	Beranger wrote about him.	Dec 27 21:56
schestowitz	Hold on	Dec 27 21:56
schestowitz	http://www.google.com/search?q=site:boycottnovell.com+eet&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-GB	Dec 27 21:56
phIRCe-local	Title: site:boycottnovell.com eet - Google Search .::. Size~: 24.88 KB	Dec 27 21:56
Ender2070	he sounded like someone who was defending mono as I mentioned earler	Dec 27 21:56
Ender2070	I have his email address	Dec 27 21:57
Ender2070	<pawel_121_> Ender2070, such commenters usually fail at reading comprehension, but the problem is when they repeat same bull all the time	Dec 27 21:58
schestowitz	Beranger: "He wants to make me think exactly as he thinks. That’s fascism, my friend.”	Dec 27 21:59
schestowitz	Beranger:“He wants to make me say SUSE is great, and so is Novell.”	Dec 27 21:59
Ender2070	its possible that they repeat the same bull that it seems they dont actually read the article in question long enough	Dec 27 21:59
schestowitz	“He wants me to believe he’s also a genius in politics, because he knows better than everybody what neo-liberalism is.”	Dec 27 21:59
schestowitz	“He keeps on posting and posting again the same defamatory comments, like a broken machinery. He refuses to accept that this blog is owned be me, and my opinions are mine. That’s fascism too.”	Dec 27 21:59
pawel_121_	Ender2070 yes, it is	Dec 27 21:59
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/22/eet-strommael-gmx-net/ http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/27/eet-proxies/	Dec 27 22:00
phIRCe-local	Title: The eet Problem Resolved (Updated) \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 178.2 KB	Dec 27 22:00
phIRCe-local	Title: The eet Nuisance Has Many Proxies/Indentities \| Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 112.61 KB	Dec 27 22:00
schestowitz	Ender2070: it's not that he doesn't read, he's idealogical, a Novell "fundamentalist"	Dec 27 22:00
schestowitz	Your argument, thus, do not matter to him	Dec 27 22:01
schestowitz	http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/sport/2009/12/27/1245da74137b	Dec 27 22:01
ThistleWeb	schestowitz: quick question, where did you find the kdemicroblog app?	Dec 27 22:01
ThistleWeb	I put mint kde on my new netbook, which is great, but I cant find that widget / plasmoid to try it	Dec 27 22:02
ThistleWeb	I found the twitter plasmoid	Dec 27 22:02
ThistleWeb	you're the only person I subscribe to who posts from it, that I noticed	Dec 27 22:04
schestowitz	http://lifehacker.com/5434865/five-best-wallpaper-sites "Earlier this week we asked you to share your favorite wallpaper site. We quickly learned that—while not everyone has a strong opinion about Linux distributions or encryption software—everyone has a favorite wallpaper site; readers logged nearly 500 votes for their favorite wallpaper sites. "	Dec 27 22:05
phIRCe-local	Title: Five Best Wallpaper Sites - Wallpapers - Lifehacker .::. Size~: 72.42 KB	Dec 27 22:05
schestowitz	ThistleWeb: it's among the plasmoids	Dec 27 22:05
schestowitz	Search for "microb"	Dec 27 22:05
ThistleWeb	I thought it would be too, k. I had a look to try and add it earlier and the only one I saw was the twitter one, which does not list identica for accounts	Dec 27 22:06
schestowitz	in widgets list	Dec 27 22:06
ThistleWeb	no probs, I'll look later ty	Dec 27 22:06
schestowitz	I used to use other tools. No way I'm going back	Dec 27 22:06
schestowitz	At some point I used AIR stuff	Dec 27 22:06
ThistleWeb	I was using choqok, until I noticed kdemicroblog	Dec 27 22:07
schestowitz	chokecock?	Dec 27 22:07
ThistleWeb	yeah, dodgy name	Dec 27 22:08
schestowitz	It's a bad app name in English	Dec 27 22:09
ThistleWeb	true	Dec 27 22:09
pawel_121_	bye everyone	Dec 27 22:09
*pawel_121_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)		Dec 27 22:09
ThistleWeb	anyhoo, sorry to derail, I'll look into that again later ty	Dec 27 22:09
Ender2070	<schestowitz> - I bcc'd you the response I sent him	Dec 27 22:11
Ender2070	I don't ever remember claiming in the article it was an attack against linux, but that having C# on linux for them is a win because they gain more customers through the increase in applications	Dec 27 22:15
schestowitz	You shouldn't write to him, he's a socipath	Dec 27 22:16
schestowitz	*sociopath	Dec 27 22:16
Ender2070	so you think its possible hes copy pasting arguements from novell's astroturf manual?	Dec 27 22:16
*Tallken has quit ("Leaving")		Dec 27 22:16
schestowitz	ANd you're being polite......	Dec 27 22:16
Ender2070	being polite is a good thing	Dec 27 22:17
schestowitz	He's crass	Dec 27 22:17
schestowitz	Look what I got: http://www.angelfire.com/linux/toussaint/samizdat/	Dec 27 22:17
phIRCe-local	Title: Samizdat: The infamous document .::. Size~: 3.52 KB	Dec 27 22:17
Ender2070	hehe I remember that	Dec 27 22:19
Ender2070	he's crass but I can't go to his level	Dec 27 22:19
*asdf_ has quit ("Page closed")		Dec 27 22:19
schestowitz	Inkscape - A noteworthy open source vector graphics software http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/2009/12/inkscape-noteworthy-open-source-vector.html	Dec 27 22:19
phIRCe-local	Title: Inkscape - A noteworthy open source vector graphics software \| All about Linux .::. Size~: 75.94 KB	Dec 27 22:19
schestowitz	Ender2070: is that leak new?	Dec 27 22:19
schestowitz	I know the incident	Dec 27 22:20
Ender2070	which incident?	Dec 27 22:20
schestowitz	"Seen this? http://www.angelfire.com/linux/toussaint/samizdat/ The PDF of Samizdat by the AdTI, readily available on the internet at last!!"	Dec 27 22:20
phIRCe-local	Title: Samizdat: The infamous document .::. Size~: 3.52 KB	Dec 27 22:20
schestowitz	That's the mail I got	Dec 27 22:20
Ender2070	samizdat?	Dec 27 22:21
Ender2070	its dated 2004, remember reading about some studies that blasted linus for not having a plagerism detector	Dec 27 22:21
schestowitz	http://linuxhelp.blogspot.com/2009/12/start-website-on-premier-web-host-this.html "What I am wondering is, will shared hosting be enough for a website or blog (such as this one) which gets around 4000 uniques per day ?" Being so dorman, I doubt it	Dec 27 22:23
phIRCe-local	Title: Start A Website On A Premier Web Host This Coming Year For Peanuts \| All about Linux .::. Size~: 75.98 KB	Dec 27 22:23
schestowitz	*dormant	Dec 27 22:23
Omar87	Hi all.	Dec 27 22:23
MinceR	hay	Dec 27 22:24
Ender2070	someone looking for web hosting?	Dec 27 22:24
schestowitz	Ender2070: no	Dec 27 22:28
schestowitz	I was just surprised by Ravi's post	Dec 27 22:28
schestowitz	He has good Linux reviews, but he no longer does any	Dec 27 22:28
Omar87	Ender2070: Webfaction owns.	Dec 27 22:29
schestowitz	http://crankyoldnutcase.blogspot.com/2009/12/lincoln-spectopr-asks-why-cant-law-get.html	Dec 27 22:30
phIRCe-local	Title: Cranky Old Nutcase by The Mad Hatter: Lincoln Spectopr asks 'Why Can't the Law Get the Crooks?' .::. Size~: 59.87 KB	Dec 27 22:30
schestowitz	You misspelled "pwns"	Dec 27 22:31
schestowitz	BN got over 3k UIPs in the past 10 hours, which is good for post-holiday Sunday	Dec 27 22:32
schestowitz	Others who cover the topics like BN also grow	Dec 27 22:32
schestowitz	_goblin grew to about 1000	Dec 27 22:32
schestowitz	This is good because it raises awareness of Microsoft's side that it does not want to be mainstream knowledge	Dec 27 22:33
*trmanco_ (n=trmanco@unaffiliated/trmanco) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 22:33
schestowitz	Like its Twitter AstroTurf, bribery, use of corruptible 'analysts' to attack competition, etc.	Dec 27 22:33
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Microsoft fears Windows XP? – or Ylmf.OS? http://tinyurl.com/ybmj5mq #microsoft #tomatogarden #windows #xp #vista #piracy #china #ylmf		Dec 27 22:34
phIRCe-local	Title: Microsoft fears Windows XP? or Ylmf.OS? « OPEN BYTES cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 40.21 KB	Dec 27 22:34
*trmanco has quit (Nick collision from services.)		Dec 27 22:35
*trmanco_ is now known as trmanco		Dec 27 22:35
_goblin	when I release my end of year stats it shows a massive constant growth month on month....	Dec 27 22:36
Ender2070	Omar87 - I use Frozenonline, I know the guy who runs it	Dec 27 22:38
Ender2070	Omar87 - I have a VPS with him	Dec 27 22:38
Omar87	Ender2070: I see.	Dec 27 22:39
Omar87	Wikileaks.org is in an urgent need for more servers. www.wikileaks.org	Dec 27 22:40
Ender2070	all linux servers	Dec 27 22:40
Omar87	Ender2070: cool. :)	Dec 27 22:40
Ender2070	yeah :D	Dec 27 22:40
Ender2070	tho im running ubuntu server on mine	Dec 27 22:40
Ender2070	ill migrate to centos when version 6 hits	Dec 27 22:41
balzac	software is for fags	Dec 27 22:42
balzac	jk	Dec 27 22:42
ThistleWeb	ciggies?	Dec 27 22:43
schestowitz	Hey, balzac, what's up?	Dec 27 22:43
balzac	nothin man	Dec 27 22:43
schestowitz	Are you stoned or something?	Dec 27 22:43
balzac	i'm trying to get a real job finally	Dec 27 22:43
balzac	nah, i was just being a jerk.	Dec 27 22:43
schestowitz	OK, please don't	Dec 27 22:43
balzac	sorry	Dec 27 22:43
schestowitz	It's left for diablod3 to do	Dec 27 22:43
schestowitz	balzac: the jobs went sent to labour camps	Dec 27 22:44
balzac	but some day it's going to come back and everyone will be able to call each other a 'f**' and it won't mean anything	Dec 27 22:44
schestowitz	Places like Foxconn..	Dec 27 22:44
schestowitz	They make Fox OS now	Dec 27 22:44
schestowitz	It's a form of Linux	Dec 27 22:44
balzac	yeah, i can't seem to find a niche in the business	Dec 27 22:45
schestowitz	and they whip employee to work for Big Uncle from the U.S.A . (Dell, Apple, etc.)	Dec 27 22:45
balzac	so many damned dudes in the software business, not enough females	Dec 27 22:45
Ender2070	is mad hatter canadian?	Dec 27 22:45
schestowitz	Yes	Dec 27 22:45
Ender2070	I thought so	Dec 27 22:45
balzac	i'm going to get security certifications and guard buildings instead	Dec 27 22:45
Ender2070	he was defending the awesome Michael Geist	Dec 27 22:45
balzac	lousy pay, but maybe I can parlay that into event security or something	Dec 27 22:46
schestowitz	Naa... yoy got RHEL certs	Dec 27 22:46
schestowitz	Use that	Dec 27 22:46
schestowitz	/yoy/you	Dec 27 22:46
balzac	i can't deal with software anymore	Dec 27 22:46
schestowitz	India needs some *NIX admins :-)	Dec 27 22:46
schestowitz	What about Disruptech?	Dec 27 22:47
balzac	it's too social, and yet not social at all	Dec 27 22:47
schestowitz	It's not social	Dec 27 22:47
balzac	well, i'm still interested in games	Dec 27 22:47
balzac	well, the problems are social, the solutions are not	Dec 27 22:47
schestowitz	Neither is the process	Dec 27 22:47
balzac	i can't avoid dealing with people because i have to deal with bugs and i need to talk to people	Dec 27 22:48
balzac	and yet I've never had enough financial backing behind any project to be able to get people's time, never gained quite enough experience to match speeds	Dec 27 22:48
balzac	so I have to leave software for entertainment, it's not a profession for me	Dec 27 22:49
*schestowitz views http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S5841h17nc&feature=related		Dec 27 22:49
balzac	too many young annoying people, i'm 34 now and if I didn't make it by now, I need to take a good haitus at least	Dec 27 22:49
schestowitz	Naaa..	Dec 27 22:49
schestowitz	FSF was hiring, balzac	Dec 27 22:50
balzac	yeah but I wasn't about to move to boston	Dec 27 22:50
balzac	anyway, RMS is right, if you can't go about it without compromising, might as well put it on the back burner and do something else	Dec 27 22:51
*ThistleWeb has quit ("Lost terminal")		Dec 27 22:52
balzac	if i kept on like an artsy frigging pansy with design work, photoshop, flash and "dreamweaver" and just was a generally stupid person, I'd be doing fine.	Dec 27 22:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] @davidgerard Have you tried the latest build now? I believe its fixed.		Dec 27 22:52
balzac	but it would have made me ill	Dec 27 22:53
balzac	proprietary software is for dipsticks who don't care about self determination	Dec 27 22:53
balzac	i'm happy to be using primarily free software, but man is it a slow strugle	Dec 27 22:55
balzac	free software vs proprietar software - what a long slow struggle	Dec 27 22:55
balzac	it's not how it should be, or how it will be eventually. It's kind of generally disatisfying like politics.	Dec 27 22:56
_goblin	for me I need my gfx drivers and a few proprietary codecs....I still challenge anyone to say that a viable business plan can be made from FOSS within the gaming industry though....	Dec 27 22:57
_goblin	imho	Dec 27 22:57
balzac	_goblin: it can be done, but people lack the inspiration to do it.	Dec 27 22:57
MinceR	_goblin: how about 'FLOSS code + proprietary content'?	Dec 27 22:57
balzac	exactly	Dec 27 22:58
_goblin	not convinced.....the costs involved in say GTA4 could never be recouped from a FOSS model...IMHO.	Dec 27 22:58
balzac	_goblin: it's just because the people running the gaming business are idiots	Dec 27 22:58
balzac	clever idiots	Dec 27 22:58
MinceR	and a full-FLOSS model works well with competitive FPS-es	Dec 27 22:58
MinceR	because they can be progressively improved	Dec 27 22:58
balzac	they know how to make money and games, but they don't know how not to have a paranoid relationship with their customers	Dec 27 22:59
MinceR	but that's probably not a business model then...	Dec 27 22:59
_goblin	but how....look at the production costs alone.....forget the code for a minute and just consider the actors,FMV, musical score, etc	Dec 27 22:59
balzac	always chiding people, warning developers about leaked code	Dec 27 22:59
balzac	"we'll get the guy who leaked this trailer prematurely"	Dec 27 22:59
balzac	you're playing the game wrong, your account is canceled	Dec 27 23:00
MinceR	_goblin: FMV is overrated. and gratis FLOSS games have great music already	Dec 27 23:00
Ender2070	RMS has said (IIRC) that game engines should be free, and the content that goes on top could be sold	Dec 27 23:00
_goblin	then you have the advertising/marketing costs....the cost to ship it onto the shelves..etc...	Dec 27 23:00
MinceR	(for example: Nexuiz, Sauerbraten)	Dec 27 23:00
balzac	the game industry leaders are very arrogant	Dec 27 23:00
balzac	if i had just a little seed money, i'd crush them	Dec 27 23:00
cubezzz	that's bull	Dec 27 23:00
cubezzz	putting software on shelves is bull	Dec 27 23:00
_goblin	MinceR: I agree with music....but name me one FOSS game project that has come close to the proprietary gaming level....	Dec 27 23:00
balzac	they're fat bitches sitting on their piles of riches	Dec 27 23:01
MinceR	_goblin: Nexuiz? :)	Dec 27 23:01
Ender2070	_globlin - Heroes of Wesnoth	Dec 27 23:01
Ender2070	_globlin - err, Battle for Wesnoth	Dec 27 23:01
cubezzz	no need to follow the old business model	Dec 27 23:01
balzac	but I don't want to get carried away with resentment here...	Dec 27 23:01
_goblin	Ender2070: A 3dish...RTS?	Dec 27 23:01
MinceR	there's also Spring with XTA, but TA started out as proprietary	Dec 27 23:01
_goblin	Ender2070: really?	Dec 27 23:01
Ender2070	_goblin - its an awesome game, i was surprised	Dec 27 23:01
cubezzz	even lgp does digital download now	Dec 27 23:01
Ender2070	_goblin - the screenshots are misleading	Dec 27 23:01
MinceR	LGP also does DRM :/	Dec 27 23:01
_goblin	Ender2070: oh its good, don't get me wrong, but how does that compare to anything in the comercial sector?	Dec 27 23:02
Ender2070	there are also a lot of games based on the opened quake 3 engine	Dec 27 23:02
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@a85-139-92-196.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 23:02
cubezzz	this is disgenious	Dec 27 23:02
balzac	the proprietary games companies are just pawns of Microsoft	Dec 27 23:02
cubezzz	we _do_ commercial games, just not open source games	Dec 27 23:02
cubezzz	even then there are different licenses	Dec 27 23:02
Ender2070	ID Software generally open sources their old games	Dec 27 23:03
Ender2070	once they believe no more money can be made	Dec 27 23:03
cubezzz	disingenuous	Dec 27 23:03
_goblin	ender2070: copying the entertainment industry when films are released on network TV.	Dec 27 23:03
Ender2070	they still make money from movies on network tv	Dec 27 23:04
balzac	I don't dislike the people of Microsoft and I can even respect the success they've acheived, but I don't compromise on fundamental, irreconcilable differences	Dec 27 23:04
_goblin	the gaming industry is more like the movies now and until I see a FOSS model responsible for a game with the global popularity of COD Modern warfare, I cannot see how it would be viable for any software house to consider it.	Dec 27 23:04
balzac	_goblin: eventually it will happen	Dec 27 23:04
cubezzz	it's very simple	Dec 27 23:04
Ender2070	the game industry won't act until they figure it will make them money	Dec 27 23:05
balzac	so your point is only short-sighted and empty	Dec 27 23:05
Ender2070	a lot of proprietary development is like that	Dec 27 23:05
balzac	screw the industry	Dec 27 23:05
_goblin	balzac: But nobody can suggest a viable alternative...	Dec 27 23:05
cubezzz	here is how it works... wait for it...	Dec 27 23:05
balzac	who cares, time will provide it eventually	Dec 27 23:05
cubezzz	go write it yourself :)	Dec 27 23:05
cubezzz	that's the secret	Dec 27 23:05
balzac	solitary toil is not the secret	Dec 27 23:05
balzac	you'll just get old alone	Dec 27 23:06
Ender2070	lol @helios "Hey Redmond...there are millions of us who don't even think your product is worth stealing anymore."	Dec 27 23:06
_goblin	balzac: Who cares? Well someone should...otherwise we can agree that gaming will remain proprietary.	Dec 27 23:06
cubezzz	there is open source development, why not games?	Dec 27 23:06
balzac	unless you're exceedingly diligent and you'll become powerful yet still socially not very well integrated, not necessarily successful financially	Dec 27 23:06
cubezzz	there's no law against it	Dec 27 23:06
_goblin	balzac: and lets hear from the person who cares how it will be done.	Dec 27 23:06
balzac	_goblin: i don't agree	Dec 27 23:06
Ender2070	<_goblin> Ender2070: oh its good, don't get me wrong, but how does that compare to anything in the comercial sector?	Dec 27 23:07
Ender2070	it compares pretty well actually	Dec 27 23:07
Ender2070	especially the music, its phenominal	Dec 27 23:07
balzac	i already know how to do it, but it would take a capital infusion from another sector of business, like Mark Shuttleworth took his wealth from the security business to do an operating system	Dec 27 23:07
_goblin	cubezzz: Because games draw on the same "features" as the movie industry. Thats the difficulty. I agree the code is out there already, so are the engines.....its production value that sells a title and something which I cannot see a FOSS model being able to make a return on.	Dec 27 23:07
balzac	so it would take one smart entrepreneur who already had some money lying around to build and nurture a FOSS-based gaming company	Dec 27 23:08
cubezzz	the guys that did that hacker game... they had a license that let you have the source	Dec 27 23:08
_goblin	balzac: and has Canonical even come close to making in its life what the COD series did itself?	Dec 27 23:08
cubezzz	I'm trying to remember the name	Dec 27 23:08
balzac	and then having proven the viability of modern licensing, industry standarizing around core functional code (already having been proven again and again)	Dec 27 23:09
cubezzz	_goblin, I reverse engineer games as a hobby	Dec 27 23:09
_goblin	cubezzz: but the source isn't the issue, we can already agree that there are impresive engines around.....	Dec 27 23:09
balzac	eventually the people with their fingers in the wind like you, _goblin would sagely nod their heads and acknowledge that indeed it is possible	Dec 27 23:09
cubezzz	also I signed an NDA to get some other code	Dec 27 23:09
balzac	it's just like politics.	Dec 27 23:09
cubezzz	then I release back to the publisher	Dec 27 23:09
cubezzz	so there's quasi-open source, a compromise	Dec 27 23:10
_goblin	balzac: Fingers in the wind? Thats a new one? Tell me is that covert cheapen of my view or is it something youve read elsewhere?	Dec 27 23:10
balzac	it means you're holding your finger in the air to detect prevailing winds	Dec 27 23:10
_goblin	yes I know what it means....lets here how it would be done then.	Dec 27 23:10
cubezzz	there was that open source game like rt2	Dec 27 23:11
_goblin	*hear	Dec 27 23:11
*Tallken has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))		Dec 27 23:11
balzac	i already said how	Dec 27 23:11
_goblin	did you? must have missed that....let me look back	Dec 27 23:11
balzac	thanks	Dec 27 23:11
balzac	look about one screen about about shuttleworth and ubuntu	Dec 27 23:11
_goblin	Not this comment? "who cares, time will provide it eventually"	Dec 27 23:11
balzac	eventually someone with money will see the obviousness of the opportunity	Dec 27 23:11
balzac	look what i just wrote	Dec 27 23:11
cubezzz	Introversion	Dec 27 23:12
cubezzz	that's who I was thinking of	Dec 27 23:12
cubezzz	they will let you have the source for a price	Dec 27 23:12
_goblin	How has Shuttleworth and Canonical got anything to do with the gaming sector?	Dec 27 23:12
balzac	anyways, i'm disillusioned with software, software politics, and just plain old politics	Dec 27 23:13
balzac	_goblin: shut it dude	Dec 27 23:13
_goblin	unless you are claiming Canonical has made more money than the COD series.	Dec 27 23:13
balzac	fucking idiot, i just said how	Dec 27 23:13
_goblin	Please re-quote....	Dec 27 23:13
balzac	you're trying to be obtuse on purpose	Dec 27 23:13
balzac	it's passive aggressiv	Dec 27 23:13
_goblin	no im not...I cannot see your answer.	Dec 27 23:13
cubezzz	uplink, that is the game I was thinking about	Dec 27 23:13
_goblin	please tell me./	Dec 27 23:13
balzac	sorry but i'm really frustrated in general	Dec 27 23:14
cubezzz	ok, another good one: rocksndiamonds	Dec 27 23:14
balzac	jobless and i can't concentrate on software anymoe	Dec 27 23:14
_goblin	eh?	Dec 27 23:14
balzac	look dude, i just said how	Dec 27 23:14
_goblin	please re-quote it...I cannot see where you mean.	Dec 27 23:14
_goblin	I am asking nicely	Dec 27 23:14
_goblin	please.	Dec 27 23:14
balzac	i said it'll take someone from outside this sector of the software industry who has money	Dec 27 23:14
_goblin	and thats the answer?	Dec 27 23:15
_goblin	you serious?	Dec 27 23:15
balzac	that's how i related it in the first place	Dec 27 23:15
_goblin	so tell me, how profitable has Ubuntu been for Mark?	Dec 27 23:15
cubezzz	how did Shuttleworth make his money anyway?	Dec 27 23:15
balzac	there would be no community distro penetrating the corporate OS business if it weren't for a wholly formed business model, funded and sheparded by the likes of Mark Shuttleworth	Dec 27 23:15
balzac	security certification authority	Dec 27 23:15
balzac	thawte	Dec 27 23:15
_goblin	so let me get this straight, your answer to solving the FOSS gaming question is by having a rich sugar daddy come in and soften the financial blow? Thats your answer?	Dec 27 23:16
balzac	i'm saying that will happen in the gaming industry after some standardization of code-base	Dec 27 23:16
balzac	it'll be a sure bet for somebody that already has a heap of money	Dec 27 23:16
_goblin	the code is not an issue (3rd time of saying that)	Dec 27 23:16
Ender2070	this mentions that linux users were willing to pay more for games: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/10/salting-bones.html	Dec 27 23:16
_goblin	Ogre for example	Dec 27 23:16
phIRCe-local	Title: Blog of helios: Salting the Bones... .::. Size~: 123.81 KB	Dec 27 23:16
balzac	and then all the current morons who run the gaming industry will have to adjust	Dec 27 23:17
Ender2070	than their windows counterparts	Dec 27 23:17
_goblin	look how many engines already exist under a GPL license - THE CODE IS NOT THE ISSUE.	Dec 27 23:17
balzac	yes it is	Dec 27 23:17
cubezzz	I actually bought Loki games after they went under	Dec 27 23:17
balzac	because it's not yet great and massive	Dec 27 23:17
_goblin	really?	Dec 27 23:17
balzac	it took a long time for Drupal to emerge as the king of CMS systems	Dec 27 23:17
_goblin	have you seen the breakdown of costs of the latest games code - its modeling/musical score etc...	Dec 27 23:18
balzac	wait until one game engine emerges for FPS	Dec 27 23:18
_goblin	I think you will find the code is the least of the costs.	Dec 27 23:18
_goblin	eh?	Dec 27 23:18
_goblin	an FPS game engine?	Dec 27 23:18
balzac	it'll happen, there'll emerge an industry standard, modularized set of components, physics, rendering, AI, level design	Dec 27 23:18
_goblin	er how about.....Dbpro for example.	Dec 27 23:18
_goblin	a simple DX high level language.....	Dec 27 23:19
_goblin	its even been implimented into .net	Dec 27 23:19
balzac	it takes time for these projects to mature, and then somebody with money will place their bets on a business model based on this foundation	Dec 27 23:19
_goblin	a sugar daddy?	Dec 27 23:19
_goblin	and that the answer?	Dec 27 23:19
balzac	that's how business works	Dec 27 23:19
_goblin	ah ok.	Dec 27 23:19
_goblin	will that sugar daddy represent one software house or many?	Dec 27 23:20
balzac	_goblin: yes, for the kind of big corporate success you set as your benchmark	Dec 27 23:20
balzac	you can make a little game right now and if you enjoy it, you're successful already	Dec 27 23:20
balzac	but you originally brought up the big corporate games which overshadow all the free games	Dec 27 23:20
_goblin	yeah........	Dec 27 23:20
balzac	eventually, there'll be a game with modern licensing which overshadows all the corporate games	Dec 27 23:21
_goblin	Im sure....	Dec 27 23:21
balzac	and revenue will be based on hosting, support, and related services, not copies of the game	Dec 27 23:21
balzac	just like drupal or ubuntu	Dec 27 23:21
balzac	very obvious	Dec 27 23:21
_goblin	so answer my question.......how rich did Ubuntu make Mark?	Dec 27 23:21
balzac	he owns stake and ubuntu is a longer term investment	Dec 27 23:22
balzac	based on the venerable debian distro	Dec 27 23:22
balzac	he's stepping down having sheparded the business to a certain level of established success	Dec 27 23:23
_goblin	and that is why gaming cannot work in the way you've described.....artists/musicians are contracted, they are not going to hang around to get paid...if at all.	Dec 27 23:23
balzac	steping aside i should say	Dec 27 23:23
_goblin	balzac: leaving Ubuntu on the brink of proprietary inclusion in its packaging I hasten to add.	Dec 27 23:23
balzac	_goblin: new titles can be published on the new modern, modular, platform. the content can remain proprietary or by subscription,	Dec 27 23:24
*Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@a85-139-92-196.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #boycottnovell		Dec 27 23:24
balzac	nothing is perfect.	Dec 27 23:24
_goblin	balzac: so then its not FOSS is it?	Dec 27 23:24
balzac	microsoft is still there	Dec 27 23:24
balzac	mostly FOSS and then it has a few propreitary codecs	Dec 27 23:24
balzac	I know and respect RMS, yet I have the flash player on this system	Dec 27 23:25
_goblin	balzac: like I say, the gaming industry cannot make a return from a FOSS model...and what of the art, music, animation, FMV et al?	Dec 27 23:25
balzac	because gnash doesn't do it	Dec 27 23:25
schestowitz	Maybe IBM will buy Canonical one day...	Dec 27 23:25
_goblin	balzac: and why proprietary codecs? Whats wrong with OGG et al?	Dec 27 23:25
balzac	content, _goblin	Dec 27 23:26
balzac	it's the power of money, not the power of common sense at work here	Dec 27 23:26
schestowitz	That'll find Shuttleworth trip to Mars :-)	Dec 27 23:26
Ender2070	[18:18] <schestowitz> Maybe IBM will buy Canonical one day...	Dec 27 23:26
schestowitz	*fund	Dec 27 23:26
Ender2070	i dont think IBM will, perhaps Google	Dec 27 23:26
schestowitz	I was exaggerating	Dec 27 23:26
schestowitz	But yes, Google would make more sense	Dec 27 23:26
Ender2070	same	Dec 27 23:26
balzac	users, players, audience - these are not the only roles in the system.	Dec 27 23:26
schestowitz	They work with Canonical on ChromeOS	Dec 27 23:26
schestowitz	They could use some userbase	Dec 27 23:27
_goblin	Right, Im off for a smoke and then I think I will go and flush my head down the toilet....things may start making sense here when I return.	Dec 27 23:27
schestowitz	IBM is too deep into RPM	Dec 27 23:27
balzac	admins, game devs, performers count too	Dec 27 23:27
schestowitz	balzac: you're in bad mood, man	Dec 27 23:27
schestowitz	You curse today	Dec 27 23:27
balzac	sorry guys	Dec 27 23:27
schestowitz	Are you physically well? That's all that matters	Dec 27 23:27
balzac	nothing is optimal for me	Dec 27 23:28
Ender2070	IBM would want Redhat	Dec 27 23:28
schestowitz	THen watch some depressing movie	Dec 27 23:28
cubezzz	I ate to many christmas treats, but otherwise I'm fine :)	Dec 27 23:28
schestowitz	:-) Will make you feel better about yourself..	Dec 27 23:28
*Tallken has quit ("Leaving")		Dec 27 23:28
balzac	maybe i'll go have a smoke myself	Dec 27 23:28
Ender2070	Redhat is profitable	Dec 27 23:28
cubezzz	did you listen to the Richard Williams testimony?	Dec 27 23:30
balzac	ubuntu will be massively profitable	Dec 27 23:30
cubezzz	very interesting stuff about Digital Research	Dec 27 23:31
Ender2070	"Get over it! Microsoft doesn’t need support from starving open-source developers nor from our lousy 1% market-base to reach a ‘critical mass’! Any standard that MS adopts has reached critical mass per se since MS is – listen closely – the monopolist in home-operating systems. Thus .NET has reached critical mass simply by its adoption by Microsoft itself. No need for convincing US that it is good."	Dec 27 23:31
Ender2070	LOL	Dec 27 23:31
cubezzz	they like giving their money to Microsoft I guess	Dec 27 23:31
Ender2070	its just good old eet	Dec 27 23:32
cubezzz	that's what it boils down to in the end	Dec 27 23:32
cubezzz	but understanding how Microsoft got to where it is, that is interesting	Dec 27 23:32
Ender2070	its funny cause .NET hasn't hit critical mass	Dec 27 23:32
cubezzz	I don't even know what .NET is :)	Dec 27 23:32
Ender2070	C# and co	Dec 27 23:32
cubezzz	http://www.archive.org/details/Richard_Freedman_testimony_in_Caldera_v_Microsoft_1998	Dec 27 23:33
phIRCe-local	Title: Internet Archive: Free Download: Richard Freedman testimony in Caldera v Microsoft .::. Size~: 17.41 KB	Dec 27 23:33
_goblin	that better.	Dec 27 23:34
cubezzz	yeah, it's a fight but so is anything worthwhile	Dec 27 23:34
cubezzz	I can remember (and it's not that long ago) when there was zero FOSS	Dec 27 23:34
schestowitz	Ender2070: yes, it's the "1%" crowd of liars	Dec 27 23:34
cubezzz	compilers were $200, Unix was $1,000	Dec 27 23:35
Ender2070	now compilers (VS) $1000	Dec 27 23:35
cubezzz	Venix was $400 (?) or something	Dec 27 23:35
schestowitz	balzac: cheer up, man. At least you're not in sweat shops... v	Dec 27 23:35
schestowitz	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjOynasuhPc&feature=fvw	Dec 27 23:35
cubezzz	now you get gcc and icc for free :)	Dec 27 23:35
schestowitz	ic.....	Dec 27 23:35
cubezzz	and how many FOSS operating systems do we have now?	Dec 27 23:36
cubezzz	a lot!	Dec 27 23:36
schestowitz	You could make one	Dec 27 23:36
schestowitz	Same with games	Dec 27 23:36
schestowitz	Unified engines, shared artwork	Dec 27 23:36
schestowitz	CC music..	Dec 27 23:36
schestowitz	It can be done	Dec 27 23:36
cubezzz	well, right now I port mostly	Dec 27 23:36
schestowitz	Watch some modern distro like Mandriva 2010... and free too	Dec 27 23:36
cubezzz	classic sheet music is available :)	Dec 27 23:37
cubezzz	classical	Dec 27 23:37
Ender2070	[18:29] <cubezzz> and how many FOSS operating systems do we have now?	Dec 27 23:37
Ender2070	yes, a lot - www.distrowatch.com	Dec 27 23:37
Ender2070	seems they pop up every day	Dec 27 23:37
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[omar_s_hafez] “End the Illegal Siege of Gaza” Succeeds: #Gaza A Trending Topic On Twitter http://networkedblogs.com/p22318525		Dec 27 23:37
phIRCe-local	Title: “End the Illegal Siege of Gaza” Succeeds: #Gaza A Trending Topic On Twitter .::. Size~: 13.7 KB	Dec 27 23:38
schestowitz	Ender2070: distrowatch is very limited	Dec 27 23:39
schestowitz	Maybe has 10% of the OSes	Dec 27 23:39
schestowitz	Those that keep being maintained anyway	Dec 27 23:39
Ender2070	having a list of maintained OSes is better	Dec 27 23:40
Ender2070	im keeping my eye on Chakra	Dec 27 23:41
schestowitz	_goblin reviwd it last month	Dec 27 23:43
_goblin	very impressed....loved it.	Dec 27 23:43
balzac	roy, I'd take a crappy job as long as it's among people	Dec 27 23:43
balzac	but the kind of crap job I'd take, people would think i was there to snitch on their labor practices	Dec 27 23:44
schestowitz	All jobs are, depends on nature of interaction	Dec 27 23:44
balzac	working really hard is easier than dealing with office politics	Dec 27 23:44
_goblin	schestowitz: Thanks for the link to my article....I took alot of time with that one.	Dec 27 23:44
balzac	but working really hard in solitude is unbearable	Dec 27 23:44
schestowitz	balzac: yes, 'psychological warfare'	Dec 27 23:44
schestowitz	No job shames its owner	Dec 27 23:45
schestowitz	Actually, some of the most productive jobs are in construction	Dec 27 23:45
schestowitz	Machines do the most work, but they require operators to run and build	Dec 27 23:45
balzac	yeah, but you need to be committed or people will see you're a transient type	Dec 27 23:45
schestowitz	Aye	Dec 27 23:45
*schestowitz goes to make tea		Dec 27 23:46
schestowitz	brb	Dec 27 23:46
balzac	my construction skills are worthless in new york because it's either you're a committed union worker or an immigrant worker - neither of those is open to a transient guy like me to work for a while	Dec 27 23:46
Ender2070	<_goblin> - which article?	Dec 27 23:46
_goblin	my recent one on ylmf.os	Dec 27 23:47
_goblin	and http://openbytes.wordpress.com/2009/12/27/is-microsofts-biggest-fear-windows-xp-or-ylmf-os/	Dec 27 23:47
phIRCe-local	Title: Microsoft fears Windows XP? or Ylmf.OS? « OPEN BYTES cave quid dicis, quando, et cui. .::. Size~: 43.75 KB	Dec 27 23:47
Ender2070	oh yes its quite good	Dec 27 23:47
balzac	so i'll get a security job standing in the lobby of a building somewhere	Dec 27 23:47
Ender2070	I read it a few minutes ago	Dec 27 23:47
_goblin	cheers! I managed to include my favorite subject......Section(1) Theft Act 1968	Dec 27 23:48
_goblin	like to try and get it in when I can.	Dec 27 23:48
balzac	$12/hr for a start, but at least i won't have to think hard all day by myself	Dec 27 23:49
balzac	just stand there while the blood runs out of my brain and settles in my feet	Dec 27 23:49
cubezzz	there are worse jobs... "Would you like fries with that?" ;-)	Dec 27 23:51
cubezzz	or you could be doing Microsoft tech support	Dec 27 23:52
balzac	that would be soul-crushing	Dec 27 23:52
balzac	not sure which would be worse	Dec 27 23:52
-BNc/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Hooray! Demoscene.tv is back up! Great site, check it out! http://www.demoscene.tv/ #demoscene		Dec 27 23:52
phIRCe-local	Title: DTV :: All the demoscene on a web TV ! .::. Size~: 160.27 KB	Dec 27 23:52
schestowitz	[23:52] <cubezzz> or you could be doing Microsoft tech support	Dec 27 23:56
schestowitz	You mean:	Dec 27 23:56
schestowitz	[23:51] <cubezzz> there are worse jobs... "Would you like fries with that?" ;-)	Dec 27 23:57
schestowitz	MCSE = Microsoft certified Sandwich Engineer	Dec 27 23:57
cubezzz	hahaha	Dec 27 23:57
cubezzz	that's low	Dec 27 23:57
schestowitz	Those who get MVP promotion do the deep fry	Dec 27 23:57
cubezzz	anything but that	Dec 27 23:58
schestowitz	Those they get hired by Microsoft wipe off the barf.	Dec 27 23:58
schestowitz	You know, to clean up the mess left by "USers"	Dec 27 23:58
cubezzz	well some jobs aren't fun	Dec 27 23:58
cubezzz	Microwiper	Dec 27 23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.6 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!