| _goblin | Ive seen that already (or similar article).....what do I think?.........well.... | Jan 23 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | All I can say it is that it does not help national security | Jan 23 00:00 |
| *Kango_VC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jan 23 00:01 | |
| schestowitz | From a state's selfish point of view, it's no good. It only increases outside threat, IMHO | Jan 23 00:01 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @ABridgwater MS's w/less keyboard with 30-feet range http://bit.ly/5Jsfb0 Ideal for users that like to type 30-feet away from screen | Jan 23 00:02 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Wireless Laser Desktop 7000 .::. Size~: 48.03 KB | Jan 23 00:02 |
| _goblin | I think NOBODY is above the law. I think we all must justify and be responsible for our own actions....as I was saying when you mentioned police violence at a protest, if actions are not proportionate then the individual(s) who engage in it must be brought to account....same with armed services, whatever rights or wrongs are done, the person must be responsible for their actions and show that it fit in with whats called SMART. | Jan 23 00:02 |
| _goblin | ... | Jan 23 00:02 |
| _goblin | SMART = | Jan 23 00:03 |
| _goblin | Specific Measurable Achievable Relevant & Timely. | Jan 23 00:03 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsindex.php?id=468834 | Jan 23 00:03 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: BERNAMA - Amendment To Copyright Act .::. Size~: 19.29 KB | Jan 23 00:03 |
| _goblin | and refers to any actions of a government body | Jan 23 00:03 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I hope it ends this abuse by "bad apples" | Jan 23 00:04 |
| _goblin | whilst being Proportionate & legal. | Jan 23 00:04 |
| schestowitz | But my issue is, some official seem to be supportive of those so-called "apples" | Jan 23 00:04 |
| _goblin | and they too must be held to task if shown to have acted inappropriately. | Jan 23 00:04 |
| _goblin | for example, the guy with the knife to the throat of another will be dealt with differently to the shoplifter who is compliant and appologetic | Jan 23 00:06 |
| _goblin | proportionality and justification for ones actions. | Jan 23 00:06 |
| *cubezzz (n=cubeman@maxhost.org) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 23 00:07 | |
| _goblin | As I said to you before, the right to peaceful protest is a right I fully support. The right to be treated with dignity and respect is another......its a two way street though and just as the police must respect the peaceful protestors, the peaceful protestors must respect the police. | Jan 23 00:08 |
| _goblin | that way everyone wins. | Jan 23 00:08 |
| _goblin | In respect of military actions though its slightly different....you cannot have an army that has troops thinking and discussing "orders from above" it would not work, thats why in cases of military misconduct is the person who gave the order not the one who followed that should be held to account. | Jan 23 00:10 |
| _goblin | and of course anyone who acts on their own should be accountable for their own actions. | Jan 23 00:11 |
| *oiaohm (n=oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 23 00:12 | |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: ugh, whoever thought wireless keyboard/mouse was a good idea. beats me | Jan 23 00:12 |
| oiaohm | http://cgit.freedesktop.org/~jsindholt/mesa/commit/?h=gallium-nine Interesting. | Jan 23 00:12 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: freedesktop.org git repository browser .::. Size~: 306.63 KB | Jan 23 00:12 |
| oiaohm | They are a good idea for prestations and other things FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 00:13 |
| oiaohm | But general usage Hmm not that great. | Jan 23 00:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | batteries. world needs more batteries. | Jan 23 00:13 |
| _goblin | lol....just read that article roy.......VCD? What year are they living in? | Jan 23 00:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | great for presentations when the battery gives out on you. Murphy's Law. | Jan 23 00:14 |
| oiaohm | Not really the computer computer is more likely to give out than the batteries. | Jan 23 00:14 |
| oiaohm | Bugger | Jan 23 00:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: hm? | Jan 23 00:14 |
| oiaohm | I ment complete computer not computer computer. | Jan 23 00:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: well, laptop battery, yes. | Jan 23 00:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: but most ppl are smart enough to use ac adapter in this circumstance, which helps wireless shit not at all. | Jan 23 00:15 |
| oiaohm | Well charged wireless mice and keyboards have longer battiery live than most laptops. | Jan 23 00:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | no doubt, which has nothing to do with my point | Jan 23 00:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | Murphy's Law! | Jan 23 00:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | even sitting here at home, | Jan 23 00:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | I can count on the keyboard and/or mouse to die at the worst possible moment. | Jan 23 00:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | that's an irritation I do not need. ever. | Jan 23 00:15 |
| schestowitz | What a load of rubbish this is: http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/2010/01/20/united-states-moves-to-promote-internet-freedom-%E2%80%98knowledge-commons%E2%80%99/ From the people who gave you ACTA | Jan 23 00:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | #firstworldproblems, too | Jan 23 00:15 |
| schestowitz | [00:12] <FurnaceBoy> schestowitz: ugh, whoever thought wireless keyboard/mouse was a good idea. beats me | Jan 23 00:15 |
| schestowitz | Batteries brands :-) | Jan 23 00:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: yes | Jan 23 00:16 |
| oiaohm | I do a lot of field presetations. FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 00:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: consumables | Jan 23 00:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: well if it works for you. | Jan 23 00:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: i jsut wouldn't use one at a desk, ever | Jan 23 00:16 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Intellectual Property Watch » Blog Archive » United States Moves To Promote Internet Freedom, ‘Knowledge Commons’ .::. Size~: 45.97 KB | Jan 23 00:16 |
| schestowitz | Oh, I see you beat me to it, re batteries | Jan 23 00:16 |
| oiaohm | I never use then at a desk unless I have a backup. | Jan 23 00:16 |
| oiaohm | Even in a presentation I have a backup ie the laptop keyboard and track pad. FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 00:16 |
| schestowitz | [00:16] <FurnaceBoy> schestowitz: consumables | Jan 23 00:17 |
| schestowitz | I hate this word | Jan 23 00:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: then again, people are well trained to put gas in their cars. but it's a whole way of life i don't want. | Jan 23 00:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: :) | Jan 23 00:17 |
| oiaohm | Basically Murfy is nothing more than a minor pest to me. | Jan 23 00:17 |
| schestowitz | Today: "The consumerization of IT -- and of Microsoft" http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=5019&tag=col1;post-5019 | Jan 23 00:17 |
| schestowitz | That's the phrase used by SteveB in some Gartner session | Jan 23 00:17 |
| schestowitz | He went ape over "The consumerization of IT" | Jan 23 00:18 |
| oiaohm | Ok minor pest unless the Murpfy pest happens to be MS. | Jan 23 00:18 |
| oiaohm | Ie Microsoft | Jan 23 00:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | urgh | Jan 23 00:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | you rely on them in your job? | Jan 23 00:19 |
| oiaohm | I am the Linux guy in the firm I am in. | Jan 23 00:19 |
| oiaohm | I can almost alway bet any trouble the network is happening that is being blamed on the Linux box's source is a windows box somewhere. | Jan 23 00:20 |
| oiaohm | Nothing more insane that MS SBS 2003 installing a update and shooting its raid control and network drivers so leading to the complete network going at a snales pace because the MS SBS 2003 is spamming the network with junk. | Jan 23 00:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | :) | Jan 23 00:21 |
| schestowitz | http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/firefox.html:-) | Jan 23 00:21 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KB | Jan 23 00:21 |
| schestowitz | :-( | Jan 23 00:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: right, i've been lucky enough to avoid Windows my whole career. miraculous. | Jan 23 00:21 |
| *FurnaceBoy touches wood | Jan 23 00:21 | |
| FurnaceBoy | and i'm hell bent on helping everyone else avoid it too. | Jan 23 00:22 |
| oiaohm | My long term goal is to get everything converted over. | Jan 23 00:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | godd*mn curse, pestilence | Jan 23 00:22 |
| oiaohm | Gets worse My Linux box's were getting blamed for breaking the vpn and it was windows insanity as well. | Jan 23 00:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | LOL | Jan 23 00:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | which vpn? | Jan 23 00:24 |
| oiaohm | I don't know who designed the Windows network stack they need to be shot. | Jan 23 00:24 |
| oiaohm | Update network card driver stall complete stack. Update firewall settings stall the stack. Do large file movements stall the stack. | Jan 23 00:24 |
| oiaohm | openvpn FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 00:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | ah | Jan 23 00:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | love it | Jan 23 00:25 |
| oiaohm | Nice solid and dependable when someone does not plug windows server inbetween it and the modem. | Jan 23 00:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | used it for years on linux, os x, windows and solaris client | Jan 23 00:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | very!!!! | Jan 23 00:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | i use it 24/7 | Jan 23 00:25 |
| oiaohm | Basically the windows guy is in for a skinning. | Jan 23 00:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | that is one hell of a product. | Jan 23 00:26 |
| MinceR | 012154 < oiaohm> I don't know who designed the Windows network stack they need to be shot. | Jan 23 00:27 |
| oiaohm | Did not know to configure Linux but since the modem was was out of ports he unpluged my Linux box and put his windows box in middle and past the vpn stuff threw. | Jan 23 00:27 |
| MinceR | they guy who said "oh, let's just steal it from BSD", the guy who did the BSD stack or the guy who changed it in windows? :> | Jan 23 00:27 |
| oiaohm | BSD stack is very stable MinceR | Jan 23 00:27 |
| oiaohm | It don't do stupidity. | Jan 23 00:27 |
| oiaohm | You can add a driver to the old BSD stack without having to pause all traffic. | Jan 23 00:28 |
| oiaohm | Yes all traffic on all cards stops while windows loads a network card driver. | Jan 23 00:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | the stack is now rewritten, apparently. | Jan 23 00:29 |
| oiaohm | Lot of it is major locking stuffups MinceR | Jan 23 00:29 |
| oiaohm | I have already used 2008 with the so called new stack. | Jan 23 00:30 |
| MinceR | well, the marketroids keep saying they've rewritten it | Jan 23 00:30 |
| oiaohm | Yes it rewritten | Jan 23 00:30 |
| MinceR | just like they keep saying everything is omfg-new in every winblows release | Jan 23 00:30 |
| MinceR | yet the same old bugs are found all the time | Jan 23 00:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | :) | Jan 23 00:30 |
| oiaohm | It has a complete new set of evils. | Jan 23 00:31 |
| FurnaceBoy | WMF | Jan 23 00:31 |
| oiaohm | Yes MS did make a new stack but they should have got more skilled coders to make it. | Jan 23 00:31 |
| FurnaceBoy | "Greatest hits AND all new tracks!" | Jan 23 00:31 |
| oiaohm | Also so much for MS backward driver compadiblity. | Jan 23 00:32 |
| MinceR | http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/Bulletin/MS08-001.mspx | Jan 23 00:32 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft Security Bulletin MS08-001 Critical: Vulnerabilities in Windows TCP/IP Could Allow Remote Code Execution (941644) .::. Size~: 171.91 KB | Jan 23 00:32 |
| MinceR | maybe they took extra care to reimplement bugs | Jan 23 00:32 |
| oiaohm | If your network card drivers are over 1 year old the sbs advisers tells you to replace at moment. | Jan 23 00:32 |
| MinceR | or "rewriting" means "hiring a couple peons to retype the same code again" | Jan 23 00:32 |
| FurnaceBoy | trmanco hasn't signed in since arriving here? | Jan 23 00:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | here = ontario | Jan 23 00:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: i just realised, Harper must be under control by masters stateside. independence is a charade. | Jan 23 00:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: gonna be very hard to dislodge | Jan 23 00:34 |
| oiaohm | Notice 2008 server is not listed on that bug MinceR | Jan 23 00:34 |
| MinceR | it does disprove one of their claims of having completely rewritten the network stack, though | Jan 23 00:34 |
| MinceR | doesn't exactly encourage trust in their claims of such things :> | Jan 23 00:35 |
| oiaohm | Vista has a hybred between new and old. | Jan 23 00:35 |
| MinceR | that's not what they said back then. | Jan 23 00:35 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Harper obviously under control of stateside masters. How are we going to dislodge him? Need to avoid the Bush->Obama shell game. #canada | Jan 23 00:35 | |
| oiaohm | you will find it all depends on what firewalling software you load and what network card drivers you have what one it uses MinceR | Jan 23 00:35 |
| oiaohm | MS cheated Vista to get it in market. | Jan 23 00:36 |
| MinceR | "Windows Vista also has a completely rewritten its implementation of the TCP/IP protocol stack." >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb188739.aspx | Jan 23 00:36 |
| oiaohm | Yes it does. | Jan 23 00:36 |
| oiaohm | Along with the old one as well that they don't say MinceR | Jan 23 00:36 |
| oiaohm | For driver compadiblity reasons. | Jan 23 00:36 |
| MinceR | in that case, they've completely reimplemented the vulnerability mentioned above | Jan 23 00:36 |
| MinceR | it's good to see that backwards compatibility is _so_ important to them :> | Jan 23 00:37 |
| oiaohm | Ie not all vistas were at risk of that vulnerablity | Jan 23 00:37 |
| oiaohm | 2 stacks not 1 for doing tcp/ip are in vista. | Jan 23 00:37 |
| MinceR | also notice that the marketroids don't even speak english | Jan 23 00:37 |
| oiaohm | Also kinda to be expected. | Jan 23 00:37 |
| oiaohm | What would MS do if the new stack was a complete lemon. | Jan 23 00:38 |
| oiaohm | And they could not run the old. | Jan 23 00:38 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: sell lemonade with Aspartame | Jan 23 00:38 |
| MinceR | i wouldn't require marketroids to be capable of a lot of things, but i'd certainly require them to know the language they're going to produce their lies^Wadvertisements in. | Jan 23 00:38 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@bitchphd RT @sidravitale corporate 'people' don't have moral obligations. Ergo Corps = sociopaths // overwhelmingly borne out by evidence | Jan 23 00:38 | |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: their cynicism and unhelpfulness is infinte | Jan 23 00:38 |
| FurnaceBoy | infinite* | Jan 23 00:38 |
| MinceR | if the new stack was a complete lemon, nobody would notice the difference :> | Jan 23 00:39 |
| oiaohm | Basically complete truthfulness would have scared people off Vista MinceR | Jan 23 00:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: hehe | Jan 23 00:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: truth is sunlight to the Microsoft vampire. | Jan 23 00:39 |
| MinceR | indeed | Jan 23 00:39 |
| oiaohm | Remember the direct X update in Vista was also done the same way MinceR | Jan 23 00:39 |
| oiaohm | Ie 2 stacks | Jan 23 00:39 |
| oiaohm | Yet for some reason people did not question why the MS marketters were saying different to what MS coders always do. | Jan 23 00:40 |
| oiaohm | There worse halfway attempt was Windows ME | Jan 23 00:40 |
| MinceR | some people believe every word from m$ as if it was the word of god | Jan 23 00:40 |
| cubezzz | ha | Jan 23 00:41 |
| MinceR | others don't believe any of their words | Jan 23 00:41 |
| oiaohm | I don't believe there word. | Jan 23 00:41 |
| oiaohm | I believe what I see as results. | Jan 23 00:41 |
| MinceR | but if i put a reimplementation beside the original and use both, then i can't truthfully claim that i've reimplemented the whole thing, can i? :> | Jan 23 00:41 |
| cubezzz | who really knows what they do | Jan 23 00:41 |
| MinceR | nobody does | Jan 23 00:42 |
| cubezzz | well, I assume the programmers do :) | Jan 23 00:42 |
| oiaohm | They can claim they reimplemented the complete thing. | Jan 23 00:42 |
| cubezzz | the guys on the inside | Jan 23 00:42 |
| oiaohm | They are leaving out telling you they have a fall back MinceR | Jan 23 00:42 |
| MinceR | i think their programmers have provided plenty of evidence that they have no idea what they're doing | Jan 23 00:42 |
| MinceR | long ago | Jan 23 00:42 |
| cubezzz | they didn't even have their own compiler at one point | Jan 23 00:42 |
| oiaohm | Remember the new Vista video stack was also marketed as a full reimplementation as well. | Jan 23 00:43 |
| oiaohm | Then when people painked about compadiblity they owned up to the fall back stack being there. | Jan 23 00:43 |
| cubezzz | copy, absorb, embrace, extinguish | Jan 23 00:43 |
| MinceR | yet they've still failed hard at compatibility | Jan 23 00:43 |
| MinceR | the worst of two worlds, as always with m$ | Jan 23 00:43 |
| cubezzz | thats the point | Jan 23 00:43 |
| cubezzz | otherwise no one would do the endless updates | Jan 23 00:44 |
| cubezzz | businesses must be getting tired of it though | Jan 23 00:45 |
| oiaohm | There is now a developer working on a direct galluim3d link for direct x from wine. | Jan 23 00:46 |
| cubezzz | the fact of the matter is they stole the BASIC interpreter AND... they initially used Lattice C as a compiler | Jan 23 00:46 |
| cubezzz | then they just keep redressing doze with new eye candy every few years | Jan 23 00:47 |
| oiaohm | Basically Open source is embrancing and extending. | Jan 23 00:47 |
| cubezzz | well... | Jan 23 00:47 |
| cubezzz | you get to do your own extending | Jan 23 00:48 |
| oiaohm | Items like ebox are targeting interfacing with ADS servers. | Jan 23 00:48 |
| oiaohm | Basically how long before they turn vampire. | Jan 23 00:48 |
| _goblin | anyone used Dream Linux here? | Jan 23 00:48 |
| _goblin | being tempted by the Xfce flavour | Jan 23 00:48 |
| oiaohm | I run kinda standard debian. | Jan 23 00:50 |
| oiaohm | so not interested in Dr | Jan 23 00:50 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] I am liking the look of Dream Linux Xfce....lets see how it performs..... | Jan 23 00:50 | |
| _goblin | heres a question.............. | Jan 23 00:51 |
| _goblin | has Python removed the need for Bash scripting for the average user? | Jan 23 00:52 |
| cubezzz | I have hundreds of Bash scripts | Jan 23 00:52 |
| oiaohm | Depends on the user _goblin | Jan 23 00:52 |
| oiaohm | 3d work all my scripts are python. | Jan 23 00:53 |
| _goblin | I ask the question after reading a book on advanced command line scripting....I am reading it thinking.....Python can do that and that and that..... | Jan 23 00:53 |
| oiaohm | Almost all my admin work is bash. | Jan 23 00:53 |
| oiaohm | To be correct ash | Jan 23 00:53 |
| cubezzz | no python on some systems | Jan 23 00:53 |
| MinceR | i don't think that the average user needs to write scripts at all :> | Jan 23 00:53 |
| oiaohm | dash | Jan 23 00:53 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz | who really knows what they do +++++ the motive is always greed and lock-in anyway, not excellence | Jan 23 00:53 |
| _goblin | I am ashamed to admit that it took the book to teach me about piping data in the CLI | Jan 23 00:54 |
| FurnaceBoy | _goblin: bash remains more concise for most shell scripting | Jan 23 00:54 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian_Almquist_shell << _goblin | Jan 23 00:54 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Debian Almquist shell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 31.8 KB | Jan 23 00:54 |
| FurnaceBoy | _goblin: Python isn't really in that space, except tangentially | Jan 23 00:54 |
| cubezzz | _goblin, didn't you do that on Amiga? :) | Jan 23 00:54 |
| oiaohm | Main advantage of items like dash is low memory foot print. | Jan 23 00:54 |
| oiaohm | so faster to load than python _goblin | Jan 23 00:55 |
| oiaohm | And not going to eat resources badly. | Jan 23 00:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | right. but Python's too verbose for simple stuff | Jan 23 00:55 |
| oiaohm | Ie whey it still used a lot in admin. | Jan 23 00:55 |
| _goblin | don't get me wrong, Im not challenging the answer, I am merely interested..... | Jan 23 00:55 |
| _goblin | Im pleased I read the book though. | Jan 23 00:55 |
| oiaohm | Python is basically becomein the vba of Linux. | Jan 23 00:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: not forgetting PHP is the ASP haha | Jan 23 00:56 |
| oiaohm | Python is basically becoming the most common macro language on linux. | Jan 23 00:56 |
| _goblin | has anyone here used pyOpenGL? | Jan 23 00:56 |
| oiaohm | You normally don't see bash or dash used as macro languages. | Jan 23 00:57 |
| oiaohm | They are not designed to intergrate into application. | Jan 23 00:57 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: what do you mean by 'macro language' ? extension language? | Jan 23 00:57 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: Lua is even preferable to Python, and JS is gaining there thanks to the skill base and useful vms | Jan 23 00:57 |
| oiaohm | A langage used inside other applications to run and perform actions inside that application. ie macro's. FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 00:57 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: right. Lua is also popular here. | Jan 23 00:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: and expect JS to grow, since the skills exist | Jan 23 00:58 |
| oiaohm | Python just has the lead at this stage FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 00:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | in the complex end of the space, sure | Jan 23 00:58 |
| cubezzz | I wrote a bash script to watchdog processes | Jan 23 00:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | Lua is far simpler... | Jan 23 00:58 |
| MinceR | simpler isn't always better :> | Jan 23 00:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: it is for embedded | Jan 23 00:58 |
| cubezzz | I guess I'd use bash unless it just couldn't do the job | Jan 23 00:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: sometimes | Jan 23 00:59 |
| oiaohm | Python is simple enough and complex enough to do almost every macroing task that could ever be required. | Jan 23 00:59 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: it's basically my policy | Jan 23 00:59 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: they all are | Jan 23 00:59 |
| *FurnaceBoy believes in diversity | Jan 23 00:59 | |
| cubezzz | sometimes I have to crunch big numbers | Jan 23 00:59 |
| cubezzz | I don't use scripts for that | Jan 23 00:59 |
| oiaohm | JS does not have a clean handling for interfacing with external .so/dlls to the application. | Jan 23 01:00 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: right, you'd want something with native bignums | Jan 23 01:00 |
| cubezzz | I'm not going to write a chess engine in python :) | Jan 23 01:00 |
| oiaohm | Lua I think it has the same weakness. | Jan 23 01:00 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: no, Lua can easily do that. | Jan 23 01:00 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Book by Petra Buhr "Patente (und Copyrights) auf Software?" http://i5.be/amv | Jan 23 01:00 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Patente (und Copyrights) auf Software? - Petra Buhr bei eBay.de: Rechtswissenschaften (endet 18.02.10 20:07:52 MEZ) .::. Size~: 114.44 KB | Jan 23 01:00 |
| *FurnaceBoy has embedded Lua with callbacks in both directions | Jan 23 01:00 | |
| cubezzz | anything that has to be fast -> C | Jan 23 01:00 |
| _goblin | cubezzz: Sorry I missed your earlier comment....No I meant I had never got around to learning the syntax in Linux C/L to do it....years of being away from the Amiga probably made me a GUI lamer ;) | Jan 23 01:01 |
| cubezzz | the interesting thing is I'm the opposite | Jan 23 01:01 |
| oiaohm | Ok just Lua is not poplular in the tools I use. Makehuman blender and so on are basically fully python beasts. | Jan 23 01:01 |
| oiaohm | As yes they need speed as well cubezzz | Jan 23 01:01 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: be careful there... http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/19940821.4497@naggum.no.html | Jan 23 01:01 |
| cubezzz | I even watch tv as a bash script | Jan 23 01:01 |
| FurnaceBoy | ^^ the late Erik Naggum summed up the risks of calling C 'fast' | Jan 23 01:02 |
| _goblin | I like this.......: | Jan 23 01:02 |
| _goblin | "If you're searching for an operating system that allows the freedom of worldwide communication; " | Jan 23 01:02 |
| _goblin | what most operating systems don't allow that? | Jan 23 01:02 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: Lua is coming from the "small" end ... some apps will need something more intricate, i guess. | Jan 23 01:02 |
| oiaohm | _goblin: the big thing about coding laugauge they have there uses. | Jan 23 01:03 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: but others of course small, simple is good. Lua is very quickly learned as it is so trivial | Jan 23 01:03 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's also very fast | Jan 23 01:03 |
| cubezzz | heh | Jan 23 01:03 |
| cubezzz | "Microsoft is not the answer. Microsoft is the question. NO is the answer." | Jan 23 01:03 |
| FurnaceBoy | hehe | Jan 23 01:03 |
| oiaohm | FurnaceBoy: Python forces neat layout of code or it don't run FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 01:03 |
| FurnaceBoy | that was in 1994 , too. | Jan 23 01:03 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: I know. | Jan 23 01:03 |
| MinceR | 020016 < _goblin> what most operating systems don't allow that? | Jan 23 01:03 |
| cubezzz | well let me say this... | Jan 23 01:03 |
| cubezzz | all the cube calculators used C | Jan 23 01:04 |
| MinceR | depending on how strict you are, proprietary OS-es don't :> | Jan 23 01:04 |
| _goblin | Guess where that quote comes from... | Jan 23 01:04 |
| cubezzz | all of them | Jan 23 01:04 |
| cubezzz | no one used anything else | Jan 23 01:04 |
| _goblin | sounds text book Microsoft? | Jan 23 01:04 |
| _goblin | or Apple? | Jan 23 01:04 |
| MinceR | crApple | Jan 23 01:04 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: speed/C correlation gets weaker all the time | Jan 23 01:04 |
| _goblin | its actually dream Linux. | Jan 23 01:04 |
| oiaohm | Don't lye cubezzz some calculators are coded in forth. | Jan 23 01:04 |
| MinceR | ic | Jan 23 01:04 |
| cubezzz | no no no | Jan 23 01:04 |
| MinceR | i've seen it often in e-mail sigs | Jan 23 01:04 |
| _goblin | Heres the quote in context: | Jan 23 01:05 |
| cubezzz | cube calculators, as in studying cube space :) | Jan 23 01:05 |
| _goblin | "If you're searching for an operating system that allows the freedom of worldwide communication; to use the same types of material produced by a worldwide community to read, write and produce art, drawings, images, music etc... better yet; to easily, quickly and safely share them all, you will now have no excuse to not give Dreamlinux 3.5 Desktop Edition a try." | Jan 23 01:05 |
| cubezzz | e.g. rubik's cube :) | Jan 23 01:05 |
| oiaohm | Same with some sections of bios are still done in forth | Jan 23 01:05 |
| MinceR | oh, that quote | Jan 23 01:05 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: odd, i saw one in Lisp just this weeek | Jan 23 01:05 |
| MinceR | i thought it was cubezzz's quote | Jan 23 01:05 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: written by a friend. | Jan 23 01:05 |
| FurnaceBoy | Lisp can be very comparable or faster than C for some problems. | Jan 23 01:05 |
| cubezzz | show me | Jan 23 01:05 |
| cubezzz | ok, let me show you instead | Jan 23 01:05 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: just grabbing mail | Jan 23 01:05 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: I believe you, but the C=fast thing is no axiom | Jan 23 01:06 |
| cubezzz | http://cubeman.org/fullcube.txt | Jan 23 01:06 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting text/plain type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Jan 23 01:06 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: Naggum gave some arguments, and 30 years of development has done the rest | Jan 23 01:06 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: the project is RubikAI | Jan 23 01:06 |
| oiaohm | Issue why forth is used over C in places is forth is closer to how the hardware works. | Jan 23 01:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: by an ex-Googler, http://code.google.com/p/rubikai | Jan 23 01:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: hahahah | Jan 23 01:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: I only used one system with a register stack | Jan 23 01:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: Transputer | Jan 23 01:07 |
| oiaohm | I said closer. | Jan 23 01:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: he may not be interested in speed. I'm not citing this in that context, just as a Rubik app in Lisp. | Jan 23 01:07 |
| oiaohm | It did not say exact match FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 01:07 |
| cubezzz | what the heck is hg? | Jan 23 01:08 |
| MinceR | the version control system called Mercurial | Jan 23 01:08 |
| cubezzz | I'm talking about counting each element at every level | Jan 23 01:08 |
| MinceR | or the element Mercury :> | Jan 23 01:08 |
| oiaohm | C is only as good as the C complier under it. | Jan 23 01:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: AND the programmer. | Jan 23 01:09 |
| cubezzz | hg clone?? | Jan 23 01:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: Naggum made all the salient points. | Jan 23 01:09 |
| oiaohm | Not the programmer that much FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 01:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: C needs experience to write well, and C++ even moreso | Jan 23 01:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: then you didn't read Naggum. | Jan 23 01:09 |
| oiaohm | Yes I have. | Jan 23 01:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: you discount his points? | Jan 23 01:10 |
| oiaohm | And Naggum never used items like PGroup compliers. | Jan 23 01:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | the compiler cannot substitute for intelligence. | Jan 23 01:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | and experience. | Jan 23 01:10 |
| oiaohm | Bad arguement. | Jan 23 01:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | a novice will write a slow or unreliable program in C | Jan 23 01:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | or unmaintainable | Jan 23 01:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | as much as any language. | Jan 23 01:11 |
| oiaohm | That is the funny thing. | Jan 23 01:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | actually worse, b/c of the micromanaging they will do | Jan 23 01:11 |
| oiaohm | The deeper the complier can path the code. | Jan 23 01:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | i can link to a perfect case in point | Jan 23 01:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: Naggum was talking more about logical errors | Jan 23 01:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: misdesign. not failure of compiler optimisations. | Jan 23 01:11 |
| oiaohm | The more logical areas are displayed. | Jan 23 01:11 |
| cubezzz | the big crunchers always use C | Jan 23 01:11 |
| oiaohm | Not true cubezzz | Jan 23 01:12 |
| cubezzz | not java, not scripts | Jan 23 01:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: right, but the correlation weakens every year... | Jan 23 01:12 |
| oiaohm | Lot of USA mil stuff still uses ADA | Jan 23 01:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: as you see if you look at the state of the art in functional languages etc. | Jan 23 01:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | here's an interesting talk. http://ocaml.janestreet.com/?q=node/61 | Jan 23 01:12 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Caml Trading talk at CMU | ocaml.janestreet.com .::. Size~: 21.55 KB | Jan 23 01:12 |
| *trmanco (i=40e547be@gateway/web/freenode/x-yuasjnjpamidvvtf) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 23 01:12 | |
| cubezzz | what do they use for chess? | Jan 23 01:12 |
| cubezzz | not ADA | Jan 23 01:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | trmanco: bem vindo | Jan 23 01:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: FPGA | Jan 23 01:13 |
| trmanco | hey hey | Jan 23 01:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: there's no point in defending C as "the fastest choice". it's rarely true now. | Jan 23 01:13 |
| trmanco | :> | Jan 23 01:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: was only ever true in the hands of a good coder. | Jan 23 01:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | trmanco: arrive safely? | Jan 23 01:13 |
| _goblin | schestowitz: When you come back to your machine...you know we were talking about MS not being able to tell the difference anymore between truth and lie...look at this quote "We never intended to ever mislead people." - you can see it in context here: http://tinyurl.com/y99mrce what a crock. Who is MS kidding here? | Jan 23 01:13 |
| cubezzz | it's not the fastest | Jan 23 01:13 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft moving away from "points system" for XBox, other services | WMExperts .::. Size~: 56.95 KB | Jan 23 01:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: then we agree :) | Jan 23 01:13 |
| oiaohm | C is only the fastest option of you have a complier than can path the code and improve it for the platform. | Jan 23 01:13 |
| cubezzz | assembler is the fastest | Jan 23 01:13 |
| trmanco | FurnaceBoy: yes | Jan 23 01:13 |
| trmanco | freat flight | Jan 23 01:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: it can be, but a mediocre C programmer will be beaten by an experienced programmer in many other environments | Jan 23 01:14 |
| trmanco | great* | Jan 23 01:14 |
| oiaohm | Problem is most c complier cannot optimise. | Jan 23 01:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: again, not necessarily. Naggum's arguments apply even more strongly to assembler. | Jan 23 01:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: besides asm is not portable nor maintainable, which are usually more crucial than speed | Jan 23 01:14 |
| oiaohm | Naggum arguement was about that coders quality would improve speed. The shocking results with Pgroup compliers is that it made almost no difference. | Jan 23 01:15 |
| schestowitz | Commodity....... http://mashable.com/2010/01/21/nokia-free-turn-by-turn/ http://www.asteriskexchange.com/ | Jan 23 01:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: no, naggum's arguments are independent of compiler | Jan 23 01:15 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Nokia To Bring Free, Global Turn-By-Turn Navigation to its Smartphones [UPDATED] .::. Size~: 95.77 KB | Jan 23 01:15 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: wb! | Jan 23 01:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: completely | Jan 23 01:15 |
| schestowitz | _goblin: thanks, good one | Jan 23 01:15 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Jan 23 01:15 |
| oiaohm | Since the complier would rewrite the code. FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 01:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: hahahaa | Jan 23 01:15 |
| trmanco | schestowitz: thanks :> | Jan 23 01:15 |
| schestowitz | More Linux apps coming because of Amazon, games too http://www.pocketgamer.biz/r/Various/Kindle+News/news.asp?c=17934 | Jan 23 01:15 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Amazon’s Kindle to join the portable gaming war, albeit in monochrome, news, Kindle news, PocketGamer.biz .::. Size~: 39.16 KB | Jan 23 01:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: no | Jan 23 01:15 |
| oiaohm | I do mean rewrite. FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 01:15 |
| trmanco | but I'm not here for long | Jan 23 01:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: it cannot replace a stupid algorithm with a good one. | Jan 23 01:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: *cannot* | Jan 23 01:15 |
| cubezzz | we have been writing cube calculators since 1980 | Jan 23 01:15 |
| oiaohm | LOL | Jan 23 01:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: a bubble sort will remain a bubble sort. | Jan 23 01:16 |
| oiaohm | Path following works out what the algorithm is. | Jan 23 01:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | ...... | Jan 23 01:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: again, programmer experience is the critical factor. | Jan 23 01:16 |
| cubezzz | anyways | Jan 23 01:16 |
| oiaohm | So yes bubble sort by PGroup tools are detect and faster forms are recommend. | Jan 23 01:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | LOL! | Jan 23 01:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: citation? | Jan 23 01:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: and what if it's not a sort? | Jan 23 01:17 |
| cubezzz | I think I did the best with icc | Jan 23 01:17 |
| cubezzz | but that's still C | Jan 23 01:17 |
| oiaohm | Bubble short has a detect patern. | Jan 23 01:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: what if it's a different type of algorithm - say finding prime numbers. | Jan 23 01:17 |
| MinceR | are we really expecting programmers to use bubble sort and considering that the most important issue to be solved? :> | Jan 23 01:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: EXPERIENCE is the Number One factor. | Jan 23 01:17 |
| oiaohm | Experience is only one factor. | Jan 23 01:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: compiler can't replace experience. | Jan 23 01:18 |
| oiaohm | Quality of tools to advise you in the right direct can help a lot. | Jan 23 01:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: ask a novice C compiler to produce a program to find first million primes. | Jan 23 01:18 |
| cubezzz | given the same algorithm, which language would be the fastest for executing? | Jan 23 01:18 |
| oiaohm | Also means you don't mess as much. | Jan 23 01:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: ask an experienced programmer. | Jan 23 01:18 |
| cubezzz | right let's talk about primes then | Jan 23 01:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: compiler will not convert the novice's program into that which an experienced programmer would write. | Jan 23 01:18 |
| oiaohm | What if the complier support tols know how. | Jan 23 01:18 |
| cubezzz | what do the prime guys use? | Jan 23 01:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: you sound naive | Jan 23 01:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: google Fabrice Bellard | Jan 23 01:18 |
| oiaohm | Lot of novice programmers speed slow downs disappear with path following solving FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 01:19 |
| cubezzz | most chess programs are C | Jan 23 01:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: they may use C. the bottlenecks tend to be bignum and huge crypto methods | Jan 23 01:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: the fastest are not. | Jan 23 01:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: the fastest are VHDL or Verilog :D | Jan 23 01:19 |
| trmanco | cya later :P | Jan 23 01:19 |
| oiaohm | Like more and more modern day C compliers have the option to auto thread and the like. | Jan 23 01:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: I'll take your word for it. | Jan 23 01:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: have you used Erlang | Jan 23 01:20 |
| oiaohm | So person does not have to get skilled in threading to get the performance from threading. | Jan 23 01:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | LOL | Jan 23 01:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | tried Erlang? | Jan 23 01:20 |
| oiaohm | so they no longer need to be as skilled to get the same advantages. | Jan 23 01:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | trmanco: ping me when you're coming downtown | Jan 23 01:20 |
| cubezzz | I see Fabrice Bellard uses C :) | Jan 23 01:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: he wrote tcc | Jan 23 01:20 |
| schestowitz | Maybe theswingle will be useful for something after all. http://www.itproportal.com/portal/news/article/2010/1/21/amazon-wants-emulate-apple-kindle-apps/ | Jan 23 01:21 |
| trmanco | FurnaceBoy: Sometime soon :P | Jan 23 01:21 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Amazon Wants To Emulate Apple With Kindle Apps - ITProPortal.com .::. Size~: 48.59 KB | Jan 23 01:21 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: wait. | Jan 23 01:21 |
| schestowitz | How's it going? | Jan 23 01:21 |
| schestowitz | You seem happy! | Jan 23 01:21 |
| trmanco | good | Jan 23 01:21 |
| trmanco | :> | Jan 23 01:21 |
| schestowitz | Racquel must be jealous ! :-p | Jan 23 01:21 |
| trmanco | I only need a chick to completly be happy | Jan 23 01:21 |
| oiaohm | Erlang does not help you with a novice FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 01:22 |
| MinceR | FurnaceBoy: can those FPGA-based chess machines beat supercomputers at chess? | Jan 23 01:22 |
| rnb | hiiiiii | Jan 23 01:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: yes. | Jan 23 01:22 |
| rnb | hi. | Jan 23 01:22 |
| schestowitz | Hey, rnb | Jan 23 01:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: otherwise they'd use supercomputers. | Jan 23 01:22 |
| oiaohm | Ie a Novice can still fail to use Erlang functions. | Jan 23 01:22 |
| rnb | hi schestowitz | Jan 23 01:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: I am talking about the #1 -- for example, IBM's | Jan 23 01:22 |
| trmanco | schestowitz: doesn't seem to be | Jan 23 01:22 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: you can buy eggs | Jan 23 01:22 |
| trmanco | she is sleeping | Jan 23 01:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: if the supercomputer was better, IBM would use the supercomputer :) | Jan 23 01:22 |
| schestowitz | I don't know abot chicks | Jan 23 01:22 |
| rnb | schestowitz: i know your name is roy, now! | Jan 23 01:22 |
| schestowitz | They don't sell them | Jan 23 01:22 |
| MinceR | FurnaceBoy: i thought IBM's solutions were supercomputers | Jan 23 01:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: afaik they use FPGA | Jan 23 01:22 |
| rnb | schestowitz: whats with this creepy boycott bn site? | Jan 23 01:22 |
| oiaohm | FurnaceBoy: That is the difference between path finding compliers and not. Even if the user does the wrong thing the complier undoes it. | Jan 23 01:22 |
| schestowitz | Maybe you should look are farms in the suburbs... | Jan 23 01:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: well, you can believe that. | Jan 23 01:23 |
| MinceR | FurnaceBoy: this might be outdated, but last time i've heard of this they were using RS/6000-s | Jan 23 01:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: it's not even possible in theory | Jan 23 01:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: long ago | Jan 23 01:23 |
| rnb | schestowitz: or, that guy is watching the logs, huh | Jan 23 01:23 |
| MinceR | (Power CPU) | Jan 23 01:23 |
| schestowitz | rnb: creepy? | Jan 23 01:23 |
| trmanco | real chicks | Jan 23 01:23 |
| oiaohm | It not possiable all the time FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 01:23 |
| schestowitz | Oh | Jan 23 01:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: i know some basic errors can be optimised away. | Jan 23 01:23 |
| trmanco | I mean, the fake chicks | Jan 23 01:23 |
| schestowitz | Some guy who runs a sex shop | Jan 23 01:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: but those are *not* the worst, or what naggum is talking about . | Jan 23 01:23 |
| schestowitz | He doesn't like BN | Jan 23 01:23 |
| rnb | schestowitz: yeah, forget it, no need to feed the troll | Jan 23 01:24 |
| schestowitz | So he dedicated his life to attacking me and my site | Jan 23 01:24 |
| rnb | schestowitz: thats why i thought it creepy | Jan 23 01:24 |
| oiaohm | FurnaceBoy: most of the worse speed effecting naggum was talking about are highly detectable. | Jan 23 01:24 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: no, bad design can't be detected by a compiler. not even the bubble sort example. it's not what compilers do. it's what code review does. :) | Jan 23 01:24 |
| schestowitz | rnb: we generally don't discuss psychopaths here. It encourages them | Jan 23 01:24 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: and education and experience | Jan 23 01:24 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: Stalin excepted | Jan 23 01:25 |
| cubezzz | basically we are just crunching integers | Jan 23 01:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: yep. did you find Bellard's paper? | Jan 23 01:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: recently he broke the prime record | Jan 23 01:25 |
| schestowitz | rnb: I watched that film you gave me about Russia | Jan 23 01:25 |
| oiaohm | FurnaceBoy: How many path inspecting compliers are there FurnaceBoy? | Jan 23 01:25 |
| cubezzz | btw | Jan 23 01:25 |
| schestowitz | I wouldn't wanna visit the country now | Jan 23 01:25 |
| cubezzz | read 'em and weep: | Jan 23 01:25 |
| cubezzz | http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/ | Jan 23 01:25 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Jan 23 01:25 |
| oiaohm | FurnaceBoy: Answer 1 | Jan 23 01:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: I know that what you are asserting is impossible. only basic errors can be optimised away. | Jan 23 01:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: design errors cannot. | Jan 23 01:25 |
| trmanco | well, time to go go | Jan 23 01:25 |
| trmanco | :P | Jan 23 01:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: and auto-vectorising, etc, is not relevant to Naggum's thesis | Jan 23 01:26 |
| rnb | schestowitz: oh, by louis theroux's brother? | Jan 23 01:26 |
| trmanco | see you guys later | Jan 23 01:26 |
| schestowitz | Didn't know who he was | Jan 23 01:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: the shootout is useless for most practical purposes. | Jan 23 01:26 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: take care | Jan 23 01:26 |
| oiaohm | Path inspecting is not just auto-vectorising. | Jan 23 01:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: i am sure it's not. | Jan 23 01:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: but your claims are beyond the realm of theoretical possibility. | Jan 23 01:26 |
| trmanco | schestowitz: I will | Jan 23 01:26 |
| trmanco | thanks | Jan 23 01:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: let's agree to disagree | Jan 23 01:26 |
| schestowitz | Learn French :-p | Jan 23 01:26 |
| cubezzz | did you see the sort times? | Jan 23 01:26 |
| oiaohm | Problem is 5 years ago yes FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 01:26 |
| *FurnaceBoy should be doing other stuff anyway | Jan 23 01:27 | |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: a novice's program cannot be converted to an expert's program. | Jan 23 01:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: by a compiler. | Jan 23 01:27 |
| oiaohm | If the program functions correctly yes it can. FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 01:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: you can disagree; great for the career of novices. | Jan 23 01:27 |
| cubezzz | python is close to the bottom :) | Jan 23 01:27 |
| schestowitz | snakes crawl | Jan 23 01:27 |
| oiaohm | For the simple point the alterations the expert coder does have that are not what you call unpredictable FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 01:28 |
| *_goblin has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jan 23 01:28 | |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: lower than a snake's belly, or some such | Jan 23 01:28 |
| rnb | schestowitz: did you see the part about the cops? | Jan 23 01:28 |
| *trmanco has quit ("Page closed") | Jan 23 01:28 | |
| rnb | schestowitz: the weird, drunken ones who detained them? | Jan 23 01:28 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: magma | Jan 23 01:28 |
| schestowitz | rnb: yes, scary part | Jan 23 01:28 |
| schestowitz | But you see the film, so you know they'd be OK | Jan 23 01:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: want me to find Bellard's paper? nice stuff about how they managed bignums | Jan 23 01:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: in the recent prime record break | Jan 23 01:29 |
| rnb | schestowitz: sure, it just shows the fascist tradition in that area | Jan 23 01:29 |
| schestowitz | I have friends who left Russia | Jan 23 01:29 |
| schestowitz | Poland too | Jan 23 01:29 |
| schestowitz | But they came back | Jan 23 01:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: @pareidoliac recently had a serious brush with racist cops in Sweden. Follow him. | Jan 23 01:29 |
| rnb | schestowitz: after 70+ years of actively suppressing it, they are right there to come back again | Jan 23 01:29 |
| oiaohm | Remember some of the fastest forms of sorting were not found by humans. But by AI's trying combinations after combitionas FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 01:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: scary shit | Jan 23 01:29 |
| schestowitz | There were many Polish workers here... fewer now | Jan 23 01:29 |
| schestowitz | rnb: mildly depressing film | Jan 23 01:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: I now about genetic algorithms. | Jan 23 01:29 |
| FurnaceBoy | know* | Jan 23 01:30 |
| rnb | there are also bizarre nazi ex-pat communities in latin america | Jan 23 01:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: but that's not what we were discussing at all. | Jan 23 01:30 |
| schestowitz | But decreasing population is generally a good thing | Jan 23 01:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: famously yes. | Jan 23 01:30 |
| rnb | because they also fled to US-supportd dictatorships there | Jan 23 01:30 |
| schestowitz | Fewer families will have babies after the economic meltdown anyway | Jan 23 01:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | exactly | Jan 23 01:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | @rnb | Jan 23 01:30 |
| schestowitz | There may not be another generation of Baby Boomers | Jan 23 01:30 |
| oiaohm | Problem is we are FurnaceBoy. That is what Path folllowing compliers are using. | Jan 23 01:30 |
| schestowitz | BUT... | Jan 23 01:30 |
| schestowitz | We have many Boomers waiting for their pension | Jan 23 01:30 |
| schestowitz | System implostion | Jan 23 01:30 |
| schestowitz | *sion | Jan 23 01:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: well, good luck. C/C++ are dead ends for 98% of applications. | Jan 23 01:30 |
| schestowitz | Maybe the government will just start subsidising cigarettes now /sarcasm | Jan 23 01:30 |
| rnb | *i* am my dad's pension :( | Jan 23 01:31 |
| schestowitz | rnb: there's that too | Jan 23 01:31 |
| rnb | after he spent 34 years at republic steel, where they promised him a great pension | Jan 23 01:31 |
| *_goblin (n=goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 23 01:31 | |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: the interesting solution representations are elsewhere | Jan 23 01:31 |
| rnb | now he gets almost none | Jan 23 01:31 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: ouch | Jan 23 01:31 |
| schestowitz | rnb: mortgaging the future based on our kids and grandkids | Jan 23 01:31 |
| rnb | they lied to him | Jan 23 01:31 |
| schestowitz | $13tr in debt and growing | Jan 23 01:31 |
| schestowitz | Obama went shopping with some troops in Afghanistan | Jan 23 01:32 |
| rnb | fkn NAFTA | Jan 23 01:32 |
| schestowitz | Maybe shopping for oil pipe outposts or something | Jan 23 01:32 |
| schestowitz | I'm not too familiar with it | Jan 23 01:32 |
| schestowitz | Novell cancelled its pension plan | Jan 23 01:32 |
| schestowitz | About 6 months ago, a little less | Jan 23 01:33 |
| schestowitz | While firing more employees | Jan 23 01:33 |
| schestowitz | "Today you have pension.......... tomorrow YOU WON'T" | Jan 23 01:33 |
| schestowitz | It's the heavenly thinking IMHO | Jan 23 01:33 |
| schestowitz | Always think of tomorrow | Jan 23 01:33 |
| schestowitz | You'll rise to the sky | Jan 23 01:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | HAHA | Jan 23 01:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | so true. | Jan 23 01:33 |
| rnb | it -was- federally guaranteed | Jan 23 01:33 |
| schestowitz | You'll be a superstar like the gal on TV | Jan 23 01:33 |
| schestowitz | You'll have your pension fund to go hunting and golfing........ | Jan 23 01:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: did you ever read Faludi's "Stiffed"? | Jan 23 01:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: excellent, important book | Jan 23 01:34 |
| schestowitz | Assuming you don't die from bad food first | Jan 23 01:34 |
| rnb | but it's the kind of guarantee that can change | Jan 23 01:34 |
| schestowitz | Or lose you pension to Gold Man Sacks | Jan 23 01:34 |
| rnb | which ... i dont think qualifies as a guarantee | Jan 23 01:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: "Stiffed" completely dissects the "lottery" theory of american life, and how it germinated | Jan 23 01:34 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: I watched soem Haiti films today | Jan 23 01:34 |
| schestowitz | Turns out the French are also their looters | Jan 23 01:35 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: you're a braver man than I | Jan 23 01:35 |
| schestowitz | So putting the blame on one nation is plainly wrong | Jan 23 01:35 |
| oiaohm | FurnaceBoy: most of the 98 percent of applications you talk about still will be depending on C and C++ somewhere. | Jan 23 01:35 |
| rnb | definitely -- never forget the evilness of West Europe | Jan 23 01:35 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: sigh | Jan 23 01:35 |
| schestowitz | The French have no Holy Scripture on their guns | Jan 23 01:35 |
| rnb | they certainly act like they are sooo much better than the US | Jan 23 01:35 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: of course, in other layers. | Jan 23 01:35 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: I am talking about solution development. | Jan 23 01:36 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: C/C++ is of little interest | Jan 23 01:36 |
| schestowitz | rnb: 510 years of genocides in the New Continent | Jan 23 01:36 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: it's not expressive and can't be | Jan 23 01:36 |
| schestowitz | With endorsement from Queen Isabel IIRC | Jan 23 01:36 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: it's a niche only | Jan 23 01:36 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: raw speed aside, Icon is an interesting language, with bignum integers. | Jan 23 01:37 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: Erlang also | Jan 23 01:37 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: have you heard of the Euler Project? | Jan 23 01:38 |
| rnb | schestowitz: haha, did you see the story about the bible verses on the guns? | Jan 23 01:38 |
| rnb | schestowitz: real classy | Jan 23 01:38 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: it had a sort of inevitability to it | Jan 23 01:38 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: can you really say you were surprised? | Jan 23 01:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: I wasn't, I expected it | Jan 23 01:39 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: not at all | Jan 23 01:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | heh | Jan 23 01:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: you've seen Rumsfeld's slides? | Jan 23 01:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: the picture of the soldiers at prayer is priceless. | Jan 23 01:39 |
| schestowitz | rnb: yes, I saw it | Jan 23 01:39 |
| schestowitz | I mailed it to rms too | Jan 23 01:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: presumably at prayer times they face fucking Disneyworld | Jan 23 01:39 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: slides? i dont think so | Jan 23 01:39 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: haha | Jan 23 01:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: yes, the powerpoints Rummy gave Bush, kindly embellished with bible quotes and pictures | Jan 23 01:40 |
| schestowitz | War and religion in the same story.... call the ambulance! | Jan 23 01:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: the weird part? the story broke in GQ. | Jan 23 01:40 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: GQ sometimes does that.. you have a url? | Jan 23 01:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: this was Bush's daily briefing on the kiling | Jan 23 01:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: top result if you search "rumsfeld bush briefing", most likely. | Jan 23 01:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: there's a slideshow | Jan 23 01:41 |
| rnb | i'l check it out | Jan 23 01:41 |
| schestowitz | They would take no shame in it | Jan 23 01:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: http://www.gq.com/news-politics/newsmakers/200905/donald-rumsfeld-administration-peers-detractors | Jan 23 01:41 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: And He Shall Be Judged: Newsmakers: GQ .::. Size~: 84.75 KB | Jan 23 01:41 |
| schestowitz | They like prayer | Jan 23 01:41 |
| rnb | the republicrats of today make nixon look like a liberal | Jan 23 01:41 |
| schestowitz | (and war) | Jan 23 01:41 |
| schestowitz | But they have a policy on not showing it | Jan 23 01:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: yes the neocons took Nixon's sick little schtick and ran with it. | Jan 23 01:41 |
| schestowitz | Cause then it gets described as "crusade" | Jan 23 01:41 |
| schestowitz | So it's a PR thing | Jan 23 01:41 |
| schestowitz | "Do as we say, don't say what we do" | Jan 23 01:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: the story puts the complete lie to that. | Jan 23 01:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: !*&(#$^#&$^#@*&^$@#*&$%@*&%$*&$@ | Jan 23 01:42 |
| *FurnaceBoy implodes with rage | Jan 23 01:42 | |
| schestowitz | There was the fiasco with x-ian bible being promoted by US troops in mideat | Jan 23 01:42 |
| schestowitz | *east | Jan 23 01:42 |
| schestowitz | rnb: vis-a-vis nixon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu8PJBRa60s | Jan 23 01:43 |
| schestowitz | http://www.cio.com/article/521166/Linux_Foundation_Microsoft_s_Talking_Smack_on_Windows_Mobile?source=rss_news | Jan 23 01:43 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Linux Foundation: Microsoft's Talking Smack on Windows Mobile - CIO.com - Business Technology Leadership .::. Size~: 79.88 KB | Jan 23 01:43 |
| schestowitz | http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2010/01/run-linux-in-ext3-rather-than-ext4-for-better-performance/ | Jan 23 01:44 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Run Linux In EXT3 Rather Than EXT4 For Better Performance | Lifehacker Australia .::. Size~: 24.03 KB | Jan 23 01:44 |
| rnb | schestowitz: certainly.. the "crazy tyrant" theory of war | Jan 23 01:44 |
| rnb | schestowitz: one of kissingr's many war crimes | Jan 23 01:44 |
| rnb | fkn e key | Jan 23 01:44 |
| schestowitz | rnb: yes, I heard it | Jan 23 01:44 |
| schestowitz | Bush reinstated it | Jan 23 01:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: i guess joanwalsh ain't gonna answer me :) | Jan 23 01:44 |
| schestowitz | From my readings the theory is like that of the mafia | Jan 23 01:45 |
| schestowitz | To assure you keep "respect" and awe, you must act irrationally sometimes | Jan 23 01:45 |
| schestowitz | Like whipping a producer on the back | Jan 23 01:46 |
| schestowitz | rnb: you know what the CIA called the Afghanistanis when they use them against the Soviets? "The Crazies" | Jan 23 01:46 |
| schestowitz | They called the Moujahadin [spelling] the "crazies" | Jan 23 01:46 |
| schestowitz | It was /THEIR/ crazies | Jan 23 01:46 |
| schestowitz | [01:44] <rnb> schestowitz: certainly.. the "crazy tyrant" theory of war | Jan 23 01:47 |
| rnb | i highly recommend this movie, if you havent seen it: | Jan 23 01:47 |
| rnb | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdDToMtuzDU | Jan 23 01:47 |
| rnb | Terrorism: Made in the USA | Jan 23 01:47 |
| schestowitz | Until those "crazies" funded the landing of planes on WTC | Jan 23 01:47 |
| rnb | excellent detail, and some good friends made that film | Jan 23 01:47 |
| schestowitz | rnb: you have roots in South America? | Jan 23 01:48 |
| schestowitz | I can't do subtitles | Jan 23 01:48 |
| schestowitz | I watch stuff while working on other stuff | Jan 23 01:48 |
| rnb | schestowitz: mm, i've worked on/off in latin america for 14 years or so | Jan 23 01:48 |
| rnb | schestowitz: my wife is from brazil | Jan 23 01:49 |
| schestowitz | I cannot edit text and read captions | Jan 23 01:49 |
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| rnb | schestowitz: too bad, it's a great documentary, and timely (the people it's about are in the news right now) | Jan 23 01:49 |
| schestowitz | Need to be more vocal and little importance on the visual side except stares | Jan 23 01:49 |
| schestowitz | rnb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z6o77X0v-Y | Jan 23 01:51 |
| rnb | schestowitz: seen it, actually! ;) | Jan 23 01:52 |
| rnb | schestowitz: i've provided tech support for a haiti solidarity group for a few years now | Jan 23 01:52 |
| schestowitz | I've seen many more | Jan 23 01:52 |
| schestowitz | Just for background basically.. | Jan 23 01:53 |
| rnb | schestowitz: it's based here in SF | Jan 23 01:53 |
| schestowitz | My cousin says Haitians were hated in her school | Jan 23 01:53 |
| schestowitz | I'll always remember that | Jan 23 01:53 |
| rnb | where was her school? | Jan 23 01:53 |
| schestowitz | Florida | Jan 23 01:53 |
| schestowitz | Miami | Jan 23 01:53 |
| schestowitz | Or parents both immigrated from Cuba | Jan 23 01:54 |
| rnb | -> http://www.haitisolidarity.net/ | Jan 23 01:54 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Haiti Solidarity : Index .::. Size~: 7.85 KB | Jan 23 01:54 |
| rnb | oh, sure, miami is the right-wing terrorist capital of latin america | Jan 23 01:55 |
| schestowitz | THey house the guy who bombed planes or tried to | Jan 23 01:55 |
| rnb | they literally have terrorist training camps there to train fighters | Jan 23 01:55 |
| rnb | luis posada carriles | Jan 23 01:55 |
| rnb | he did do it | Jan 23 01:55 |
| schestowitz | Whoever.. | Jan 23 01:55 |
| schestowitz | rnb: but to the "Bad Guys" | Jan 23 01:55 |
| rnb | and he also carried out a series of bombings of hotels in havana in the late 90s and bragged to the press about it | Jan 23 01:56 |
| rnb | he's currently being sheltered in the US, who refuses to extradite him to venezuela, where he was in prison until he "escaped" | Jan 23 01:56 |
| rnb | even though the US has an extradition treaty with venezuela | Jan 23 01:56 |
| schestowitz | > On Wednesday, Apple's having a launch at San Francisco's | Jan 23 01:56 |
| schestowitz | > Yerba Buena Center for the Arts for what everyone is | Jan 23 01:56 |
| schestowitz | > calling the iSlate or iPad -- a tablet computer based on | Jan 23 01:56 |
| schestowitz | > the iPhone. The company who once announced to the world | Jan 23 01:57 |
| schestowitz | > that they opposed DRM on music has been pushing DRM in | Jan 23 01:57 |
| schestowitz | > every other area of their business -- and we're here to | Jan 23 01:57 |
| schestowitz | > tell them enough is enough. Come help create the counter | Jan 23 01:57 |
| schestowitz | > story in the media -- take photos, talk to the press, | Jan 23 01:57 |
| schestowitz | > and have fun with a little bit of theater to show that | Jan 23 01:57 |
| schestowitz | > Apple is not the force for creative expression they | Jan 23 01:57 |
| rnb | it was Air Cubana Flight 455 | Jan 23 01:57 |
| schestowitz | > claim to be. | Jan 23 01:57 |
| rnb | dinner time | Jan 23 01:57 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Right, a little relaxing music before bed....great stuff.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RbmbFhghd0 | Jan 23 02:22 | |
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| DaemonFC | these speakers are awesome | Jan 23 02:57 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @guardianeco #Kraft pledges to honour #Cadbury's #Fairtrade sourcing commitments http://bit.ly/6zKo9Q // yehright + Fairtrade no panacea | Jan 23 03:00 | |
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| amarsh04 | http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/22/2799055.htm | Jan 23 04:18 |
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| DaemonFC | Dennis Kucinich wants to establish the Ministry of Peace and the NightWatch | Jan 23 04:25 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Jan 23 04:25 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h808/show# | Jan 23 04:26 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@alykhansatchu Blix said he didn't think Blair acted in conscious bad faith. Can that be sustained any more? http://bit.ly/6LA3uQ // No. | Jan 23 04:37 | |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@johnderosa When I hear "Bridge over Troubled Water" Simon &Garfunkel, I think: I *ought* to like it. But I don't // funny, i feel the same | Jan 23 04:40 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@potikosi Amazon Deal on all Sarah #Palin books %50 off http://tr.im/blahblah 18 // boy, did you get the wrong guy | Jan 23 04:41 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@triumph68 game theory Q: how 2 convince othr side you're so crazy you're willing 2 bring ceiling dwn on evrybdy. // show #GOP membership | Jan 23 04:42 | |
| DaemonFC | Gamestop is closing 400 stores :) | Jan 23 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | seems like all the stores where people waste money are closing | Jan 23 04:47 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] "I didn't have a problem in the UAE requiring a lawyer until you decided to start spamming me. Will you stop?" | Jan 23 05:05 | |
| DaemonFC | http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/International/india-reacts-himalayan-glacier-mistake/story?id=9634241 | Jan 23 05:11 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60L5O820100122?type=technologyNews | Jan 23 05:13 |
| DaemonFC | more security bugs in IE | Jan 23 05:14 |
| DaemonFC | "Research firm Core Security Technologies said on Friday that it discovered another set of vulnerabilities in Internet Explorer that hackers can link together and exploit, to remotely access all of the data on a personal computer." | Jan 23 05:14 |
| Eruaran | lol | Jan 23 05:49 |
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| tessier__ | It'll never end. | Jan 23 07:36 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] "Switching to #Linux is no harder than switching to OS X" http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/No-Country-for-Linux-Newbies-69156.html | Jan 23 09:55 | |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Coverage from Ending of #LCA 2010 (Linux.conf.au) http://ur1.ca/kho4 http://ur1.ca/kho5 | Jan 23 09:57 | |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Desktop #GNU #Linux Initiative Gets Millions in New Investment http://ur1.ca/kho7 | Jan 23 09:58 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: 'Microsoft-free' virtual desktop startup gets $4m funding - Techworld.com .::. Size~: 118.64 KB | Jan 23 09:58 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Examples of #Windows Drawbacks That Make #GNU #Linux the Better Choice http://ur1.ca/khp0 http://ur1.ca/khp2 | Jan 23 10:00 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: How much is that software in the Windows? « dwasifar's daily gripe .::. Size~: 75.16 KB | Jan 23 10:00 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] 3 New Audiocasts About GNU/Linux: TLLTS, Linux Outlaws, LinuxCrazy http://ur1.ca/khqe http://ur1.ca/ke6n http://ur1.ca/khqg | Jan 23 10:02 | |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #Linux (Kernel Space) RC, qemu-kvm-0.12, Good Features Coming http://ur1.ca/khrj http://ur1.ca/khrk | Jan 23 10:04 | |
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| chips_B_Malroy | all asleep across the pond ? | Jan 23 10:06 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #NVIDIA and #ATI Additions to #Linux #Graphics Stack http://ur1.ca/khti http://ur1.ca/khtj http://ur1.ca/khtk | Jan 23 10:06 | |
| chips_B_Malroy | at least the bot working | Jan 23 10:06 |
| chips_B_Malroy | thanks to tessler | Jan 23 10:07 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #KOffice More Than Just a Desktop Application http://ingwa2.blogspot.com/2010/01/koffice-portability-in-action.html #qt | Jan 23 10:18 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNOME Targets More Women, New Activity Journal Released http://ur1.ca/khyf http://ur1.ca/khyg | Jan 23 10:20 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #PuppyLinux Versus Windows Vista, List of "Top" Distros Created http://ur1.ca/khyh http://www.homedistro.com/ | Jan 23 10:21 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Pardus #Linux 2009.01 Reviewed, Looks Great http://thelinuxblog.net/uncategorized/pardus-2009-01/ | Jan 23 10:22 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Review of #Slackware , Guide for Installing Version 13 http://ur1.ca/khyk http://ur1.ca/khyl | Jan 23 10:24 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Next #Ubuntu to Come with Many Wallpapers http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/01/ubuntu-1004-lucid-lynx-wallpapers.html | Jan 23 10:25 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu Electronics Remix 9.10 Introduced http://news.softpedia.com/news/Introducing-Ubuntu-Electronics-Remix-9-10-132890.shtml | Jan 23 10:25 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LinuxMint 8 #KDE Now in Release Candidate Stage http://news.softpedia.com/news/Linux-Mint-8-RC1-KDE-Edition-Arrives-132766.shtml | Jan 23 10:27 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mobile #Linux (Android) Grows Extremely Fast http://ur1.ca/khyo http://ur1.ca/khyp | Jan 23 10:35 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Sub-notebooks to Run #Android or #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/khyr | Jan 23 10:36 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #OLPC Comes to #Haiti http://www.eweekeurope.co.uk/news/-100-laptop-project-recruiting-haiti-volunteers-3103 | Jan 23 10:37 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More #FreeSoftware Projects: #Pivot (for RIA) Enters Apache http://ur1.ca/khys | Jan 23 10:38 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ReactOS Benefits from #Wine #FreeSoftware Project http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2010/01/reactos-hits-a-fork-in-the-roa.html | Jan 23 10:39 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Oracle OpenOffice.org Adds New Printing User Interface http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/new_print_ui_now_integrated | Jan 23 10:40 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Early Impression of #Mozilla #Firefox 3.6 Very Positive http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/01/hands-on-firefox-36.ars | Jan 23 10:41 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Oracle Messing About on the Side http://ur1.ca/khz1 | Jan 23 10:43 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Release of #Nmap , #GCC 4.5 Status Report http://ur1.ca/khz3 http://ur1.ca/khz4 | Jan 23 10:44 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SanFrancisco Represents Win for #FreeSoftware in #Government http://mashable.com/2010/01/22/open-source-san-francisco/ | Jan 23 10:45 | |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Free #CMS Software Gets Open Video, #WordPress Foundation is Born http://ur1.ca/khzk http://ur1.ca/khzl | Jan 23 10:58 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Data.gov.uk Uses #FreeSoftware , #CreativeCommons Attribution 3.0 Licence http://ur1.ca/khzm http://ur1.ca/khzn | Jan 23 11:00 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Review of #GNU #Linux Distributions for the Desktop http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/linux-best-experience.html | Jan 23 11:01 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #IntellectualMonopolies Suffer #Copyright Setbacks, Use Propaganda http://ur1.ca/khzt http://ur1.ca/khzu | Jan 23 11:04 | |
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| phIRCe-BNc | Hello World! | Jan 23 11:10 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] @schestowitz Thanks for the positive respond on Ubuntu in COLA Roy. I see it as a challenge. Love challenges. | Jan 23 11:17 | |
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| Eruaran | That's better | Jan 23 11:33 |
| Eruaran | I got a reply from Sagte | Jan 23 11:33 |
| Eruaran | *Sage | Jan 23 11:33 |
| Eruaran | Visionless and sad | Jan 23 11:33 |
| Eruaran | After being told they've lost a customer they still repeated their Windows-only mantra | Jan 23 11:34 |
| Eruaran | No regard is given to helping the customer | Jan 23 11:34 |
| oiaohm | It is sadly a game of numbers Eruaran | Jan 23 11:35 |
| Eruaran | They only support what they consider to be popular (don't take any vision or forsight to do that)... Even though they lost a customer to a competitor who offered a better solution | Jan 23 11:35 |
| oiaohm | Lot of these companies will also stupid claim linux is only 1 percent so they don't need to support it. | Jan 23 11:36 |
| Eruaran | oiaohm: Indeed, though I can see their numbers declining | Jan 23 11:36 |
| Eruaran | Actually their previous claim was more stupid than that | Jan 23 11:36 |
| Eruaran | They claim Linux has caused them issues in the past (they've never made any software for Linux) | Jan 23 11:37 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly true. | Jan 23 11:37 |
| oiaohm | One of the companys that merged into Sage did make Linux software. | Jan 23 11:38 |
| Eruaran | I have gotten the impression from them that their view of Linux is much like Microsoft's, its an "infestation" | Jan 23 11:38 |
| oiaohm | So no a product with a Sage name no it. | Jan 23 11:38 |
| Eruaran | Sorry, I'm talking about accounting software | Jan 23 11:38 |
| oiaohm | no/not | Jan 23 11:38 |
| oiaohm | Same Eruaran | Jan 23 11:38 |
| Eruaran | Their core software | Jan 23 11:38 |
| Eruaran | They told us that if you have a Linux server they wont support their own software | Jan 23 11:38 |
| oiaohm | At one stage they bought out a competor. Eruaran | Jan 23 11:38 |
| Eruaran | I don't see them doing that again | Jan 23 11:39 |
| Eruaran | The | Jan 23 11:39 |
| Eruaran | They're too backward | Jan 23 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Don't worry I have seen worse. | Jan 23 11:39 |
| Eruaran | well, they lost a good customer anyway | Jan 23 11:39 |
| oiaohm | I have seen companies that thinking coding in .net magically means it will work under Linux | Jan 23 11:40 |
| oiaohm | And even promises it to customer. | Jan 23 11:40 |
| Eruaran | what the | Jan 23 11:40 |
| Eruaran | serious ? | Jan 23 11:40 |
| oiaohm | serious | Jan 23 11:40 |
| oiaohm | At least Sage is still in the region of somewhat sane. | Jan 23 11:40 |
| Eruaran | there are no words... | Jan 23 11:40 |
| Eruaran | I must say, I rather like pacman | Jan 23 11:41 |
| oiaohm | Just be thankful Sage is truthful and up front about there support. | Jan 23 11:41 |
| oiaohm | There is nothing worse than a lieing supplier. | Jan 23 11:42 |
| Eruaran | (ArchLinux pacman... not the little yellow gobbler) | Jan 23 11:42 |
| Eruaran | indeed | Jan 23 11:42 |
| oiaohm | There are all levels of bad companies out there. | Jan 23 11:42 |
| oiaohm | The repeated liers ie MS class and releated. | Jan 23 11:42 |
| oiaohm | The head in sand people ie the must run X or else class. | Jan 23 11:43 |
| oiaohm | And the pure pack of idiot companies that getting a correct answer is basically impossiable. Eruaran | Jan 23 11:43 |
| oiaohm | yet some how all of them some how stay in business | Jan 23 11:44 |
| Eruaran | :/ | Jan 23 11:44 |
| Eruaran | makes you wonder... | Jan 23 11:45 |
| oiaohm | After all my years I just have the 4 files. | Jan 23 11:45 |
| oiaohm | for suppliers. | Jan 23 11:45 |
| oiaohm | Ie those three cats plus one to use. | Jan 23 11:45 |
| oiaohm | Longer you are in software aquirement the larger those files will become. Eruaran | Jan 23 11:46 |
| Eruaran | mmm | Jan 23 11:47 |
| oiaohm | I really wish I could say that what Sage is doing is strange but in truth its not Eruaran | Jan 23 11:51 |
| Eruaran | indeed | Jan 23 11:51 |
| oiaohm | I remember in the days Unix was dominate in the server world same kind of bias's were going on. | Jan 23 11:51 |
| oiaohm | Like software for HP UX or AIX only. | Jan 23 11:51 |
| oiaohm | Nothing changed humans are humans. Only thing that changed was the name of the OS. | Jan 23 11:52 |
| Eruaran | heh, many companies didn't even change HP's default passwords | Jan 23 11:52 |
| oiaohm | Still happens today Eruaran | Jan 23 11:52 |
| oiaohm | Humans are very much a constant. | Jan 23 11:53 |
| Eruaran | sihg | Jan 23 11:53 |
| Eruaran | *sigh | Jan 23 11:53 |
| Eruaran | What we need are computers that electrocute people for doing dumb things | Jan 23 11:53 |
| oiaohm | First thing to be able to live with it without stress is just accept humans are humans. | Jan 23 11:54 |
| Eruaran | An anti-dumb mechanism | Jan 23 11:54 |
| oiaohm | So being dumb is normal. | Jan 23 11:54 |
| Eruaran | I don't really stress about it | Jan 23 11:54 |
| Eruaran | I do marvel though | Jan 23 11:54 |
| oiaohm | Second thing is accepting that you are not responable for other peoples actions. | Jan 23 11:54 |
| oiaohm | If they don't do the right thing its there fault. | Jan 23 11:55 |
| Eruaran | Indeed | Jan 23 11:55 |
| oiaohm | The first one is simple. The second is a lot harder for a lot of people to get. | Jan 23 11:55 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Result! Got three days off work! Get Openbytes sorted...do jobs for "her indoors", watch wrestling....my time off is organized. | Jan 23 12:04 | |
| *Python1320 (n=Python13@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe24dc00-238.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 23 12:06 | |
| *Eruaran has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jan 23 12:15 | |
| *Eruaran (n=quassel@CPE-124-180-202-208.lns7.lon.bigpond.net.au) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 23 12:15 | |
| Eruaran | hmm ff daily is at 3.6.1pre | Jan 23 12:25 |
| Eruaran | oh well | Jan 23 12:25 |
| Eruaran | that'll do :p | Jan 23 12:25 |
| schestowitz | ppa? | Jan 23 12:34 |
| Eruaran | http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mozilla-daily/ppa/ubuntu | Jan 23 12:35 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Index of /ubuntu-mozilla-daily/ppa/ubuntu .::. Size~: 1.13 KB | Jan 23 12:35 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] India to setup Unlimited police spying on communications (news from Nov 09) http://bit.ly/91fKvH. #privacy | Jan 23 12:35 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: India to set up automatic monitoring of communications - privacy - Good Gear Guide .::. Size~: 118.02 KB | Jan 23 12:35 |
| schestowitz | http://www.nrao.edu/pr/2010/shaypulsar/ | Jan 23 12:35 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Student Discovers New Pulsar .::. Size~: 12.88 KB | Jan 23 12:35 |
| schestowitz | Cool! | Jan 23 12:35 |
| _goblin | 3.6.1? - Ive never upgraded since 3.5.7 | Jan 23 12:37 |
| schestowitz | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/7046519/Drastic-Digg-overhaul-could-shock-users-says-Kevin-Rose.html | Jan 23 12:38 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: 'Drastic' Digg overhaul could 'shock' users, says Kevin Rose - Telegraph .::. Size~: 58.34 KB | Jan 23 12:38 |
| schestowitz | http://www.ghabuntu.com/2010/01/internet-as-it-was-seen-in-1995-by.html | Jan 23 12:39 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: The internet as it was seen in 1995 by Clifford Stoll. | GHABUNTU .::. Size~: 99.54 KB | Jan 23 12:39 |
| oiaohm | http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/android_grew_350_in_2009.php Not numbers MS will be liking | Jan 23 12:42 |
| Eruaran | Their WinMo guy is flining the FUD and pretending there's a "buzz" over WinMo7... (forgot to take his medication) | Jan 23 12:47 |
| oiaohm | iphone guys are doing the same. | Jan 23 12:51 |
| oiaohm | They don't want to see that android is selling threw many different suppliers. | Jan 23 12:52 |
| Eruaran | I wonder how many ENIAC's it would take to play Doom... ;) | Jan 23 12:53 |
| Eruaran | Lets not think about it | Jan 23 12:54 |
| oiaohm | I would be someone did tic tac toe on it at some point Eruaran | Jan 23 12:58 |
| Eruaran | yes, I'm sure someone would have | Jan 23 13:00 |
| oiaohm | Now I don't think ENIAC even have the interfaces to do text based doom. | Jan 23 13:02 |
| oiaohm | Yes there is a insane text based version out there. | Jan 23 13:02 |
| oiaohm | Half the battle is seeing the person you are shooting at. | Jan 23 13:02 |
| Eruaran | Sounds like classic sci-fi horror ;) | Jan 23 13:03 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSIRAC I have personally had one of the dead boards out of that one in my hands. | Jan 23 13:04 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: CSIRAC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 40.55 KB | Jan 23 13:05 |
| Eruaran | cool | Jan 23 13:06 |
| oiaohm | CSIRAC used 30 kilowatts of power in operation << The thing will never be turned back on. | Jan 23 13:08 |
| Eruaran | :O | Jan 23 13:08 |
| oiaohm | There is a emulator for it. | Jan 23 13:09 |
| oiaohm | And even copies of lots of the old programs. | Jan 23 13:09 |
| oiaohm | Note CSIRAC had a speaker to play music Eruaran | Jan 23 13:11 |
| Eruaran | perfect | Jan 23 13:12 |
| oiaohm | http://www.csse.unimelb.edu.au/dept/about/csirac/music/music.html | Jan 23 13:13 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Computer Science and Software Engineering: The University of Melbourne .::. Size~: 14.75 KB | Jan 23 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Yes first pulse operated speaker that become the pc speaker. | Jan 23 13:13 |
| oiaohm | Yes warped of warped. | Jan 23 13:13 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] In my experience Compaq are godawful machines. Never had a good experience. Terrible. | Jan 23 13:15 | |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: http://techdrivein.blogspot.com/2010/01/install-firefox-36-in-ubuntu-super-easy.html | Jan 23 13:17 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Install Firefox 3.6 in Ubuntu the Super Easy Way using Ubuntuzilla | Tech Drive .::. Size~: 79.76 KB | Jan 23 13:17 |
| Eruaran | That second one, InCellarCool.mov is a bit scary | Jan 23 13:18 |
| schestowitz | Et tu, Carla? Editor's Note: What is User-friendly, Really? < http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2010-01-23-003-35-OP > | Jan 23 13:21 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Linux Today - Editor's Note: What is User-friendly, Really? .::. Size~: 89.04 KB | Jan 23 13:21 |
| schestowitz | I don't understand.... all the option I had before are still there | Jan 23 13:21 |
| cubezzz | how can they be sure it's the only 1st generation computer still functioning? | Jan 23 13:21 |
| schestowitz | Maybe gwenview is the exception | Jan 23 13:21 |
| Eruaran | thx schestowitz | Jan 23 13:21 |
| oiaohm | Most of the first generation were disasmabled cubezzz | Jan 23 13:22 |
| oiaohm | And basically recycled. | Jan 23 13:22 |
| cubezzz | sorry, it says surviving | Jan 23 13:23 |
| cubezzz | I guess it can't function then | Jan 23 13:23 |
| oiaohm | It could. | Jan 23 13:24 |
| oiaohm | But lots and lots of repair would would have to be done. | Jan 23 13:24 |
| cubezzz | so then none of the other ones exist at all? | Jan 23 13:24 |
| oiaohm | Few fragements of the others exist. | Jan 23 13:24 |
| oiaohm | Even CSIRAC is not 100 percent orginal either. | Jan 23 13:24 |
| cubezzz | I wouldn't mind owning a Commodore PET or a KIM-1 | Jan 23 13:25 |
| oiaohm | There is about half a ton of spares that had not been used or had been used for it. | Jan 23 13:25 |
| cubezzz | those 1st generation monsters are just too big | Jan 23 13:25 |
| oiaohm | That is a major reason most don't exist. | Jan 23 13:25 |
| cubezzz | so what is the oldest computer still functioning? | Jan 23 13:26 |
| oiaohm | Australia was one of the few places where it was simple just to build a new shed and forget about it. | Jan 23 13:26 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Monster headache. 2xCo-dydromal and sleep for me #fb | Jan 23 13:26 | |
| oiaohm | Oldest computer still functioning is most likely in parks radio observitry. | Jan 23 13:26 |
| cubezzz | I'm sure there must be some PDPs around | Jan 23 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Its a analog computer for cleaning up signals. | Jan 23 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Still works great. | Jan 23 13:27 |
| cubezzz | ok, I'll specify digital | Jan 23 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Now if you are looking for digtail. I really don't have a clue where to look. | Jan 23 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Most of the old digitals get shutdown. | Jan 23 13:28 |
| cubezzz | the first mini comupter maybe? | Jan 23 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Mostly because they are power hungry. | Jan 23 13:29 |
| oiaohm | The first of the mini computers still run. | Jan 23 13:29 |
| cubezzz | check this out, it's just a part of ENIAC | Jan 23 13:29 |
| cubezzz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ENIAC_Penn1.jpg | Jan 23 13:29 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB | Jan 23 13:29 |
| cubezzz | ah interesting | Jan 23 13:30 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SILLIAC << The other first Australian computer. | Jan 23 13:30 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: SILLIAC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 25.68 KB | Jan 23 13:30 |
| oiaohm | Its got cut to bits. | Jan 23 13:30 |
| oiaohm | Due to being in a city and it had to make way. | Jan 23 13:30 |
| cubezzz | they seem to call minis "3rd generation" | Jan 23 13:31 |
| cubezzz | I wonder what 2nd gen means then | Jan 23 13:31 |
| rnb | hello | Jan 23 13:32 |
| cubezzz | hello :) | Jan 23 13:32 |
| Eruaran | I'd like one of the original Amiga's that had the creators signitures on the chassis and the paw print. | Jan 23 13:32 |
| oiaohm | Most of the 2nd gen got cut up and the end of world war 2. cubezzz | Jan 23 13:32 |
| cubezzz | ah, Amiga 1000 should be no problem to get | Jan 23 13:32 |
| oiaohm | 2nd gen is the transistor age cubezzz | Jan 23 13:33 |
| oiaohm | 3nd gen is silcon chips cubezzz | Jan 23 13:33 |
| cubezzz | this site says "Second Generation Computers (1954 -1959)" | Jan 23 13:34 |
| cubezzz | so what generation are we on now? | Jan 23 13:34 |
| cubezzz | 5th generation I think | Jan 23 13:34 |
| oiaohm | Techincally still thrid | Jan 23 13:35 |
| oiaohm | We are still using silcon. | Jan 23 13:35 |
| oiaohm | Until we change of that generations don't change. | Jan 23 13:35 |
| Eruaran | not pure silicon | Jan 23 13:35 |
| Eruaran | and it wont be long before that changes | Jan 23 13:36 |
| Eruaran | carbon processors are already working | Jan 23 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Scary part is we could see the return to gears. | Jan 23 13:37 |
| oiaohm | ie nano gears. | Jan 23 13:37 |
| cubezzz | I heard something about diamond processors or cpu | Jan 23 13:38 |
| oiaohm | There are such things as diamond heat sinks for cpu's. | Jan 23 13:38 |
| cubezzz | I guess that's carbon :) | Jan 23 13:38 |
| oiaohm | Of course only used in mil grade stuff. | Jan 23 13:39 |
| cubezzz | hoarding by worldwide diamond conglomerate De Beers makes diamond far too expensive to waste on mere CPUs. | Jan 23 13:39 |
| oiaohm | Its artifical diamond | Jan 23 13:40 |
| oiaohm | How else are you going to have diamonds the right shape for the cpu silcon. | Jan 23 13:40 |
| Eruaran | carbon processors that are literally a film of carbon have been demonstrated working.. early days but they would multiply power dramatically | Jan 23 13:42 |
| cubezzz | Third Generation (Discrete transistors and SSI, MSI, LSI Integrated circuits) | Jan 23 13:50 |
| cubezzz | Fourth Generation (VLSI integrated circuits) | Jan 23 13:50 |
| cubezzz | according to wikipedia | Jan 23 13:50 |
| cubezzz | so differing opinions there | Jan 23 13:50 |
| cubezzz | also talk about the First Generation (Mechanical/Electromechanical) | Jan 23 13:51 |
| cubezzz | then call vaccuum tube computers 2nd gen | Jan 23 13:51 |
| oiaohm | VLSI is very questionable if it should be called a generation on its own. | Jan 23 13:52 |
| Eruaran | years ago IBM were allegedly experimenting with storing data in crystals | Jan 23 13:52 |
| oiaohm | Eruaran: working prototypes of that exist. | Jan 23 13:53 |
| oiaohm | Problem is data staying in the crystal is a major failure. | Jan 23 13:53 |
| Eruaran | What happens ? | Jan 23 13:53 |
| oiaohm | IBM can make crystals with non changing data. | Jan 23 13:55 |
| oiaohm | Writable is basically impossiable. | Jan 23 13:55 |
| oiaohm | all methods found for after construction writing basically risked cracking the crystal. | Jan 23 13:56 |
| *_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jan 23 13:56 | |
| oiaohm | With the risk of cracking increasing each write. | Jan 23 13:56 |
| oiaohm | Then having vibration and other things reset the data in the crystal as well if it was writable Eruaran | Jan 23 13:57 |
| oiaohm | Basically if it was possiable for it to screw up it would. | Jan 23 13:57 |
| Eruaran | hmm | Jan 23 13:57 |
| Eruaran | ah well | Jan 23 13:58 |
| Eruaran | If you don't try you don't know | Jan 23 13:58 |
| oiaohm | One day the issues of crystals might be solved. | Jan 23 13:59 |
| cubezzz | Windows Crsytal Edition, finally a version of windows that can't get a virus :) | Jan 23 13:59 |
| Eruaran | maybe you'd have to grow a crystal with a particular type of structure | Jan 23 14:00 |
| oiaohm | Major problems is most crystals are designed to keep a fixed state. | Jan 23 14:01 |
| oiaohm | It write data you need something that will tolerate a changing state. | Jan 23 14:02 |
| rnb | whats new? | Jan 23 14:02 |
| Eruaran | a superconducting crystal ? | Jan 23 14:02 |
| MinceR | crystal-based goa'uld technology | Jan 23 14:05 |
| rnb | i dont know much about that :( | Jan 23 14:05 |
| rnb | correction: damn near anything about that | Jan 23 14:05 |
| Eruaran | me neither | Jan 23 14:06 |
| Eruaran | I read an article in like 2003 or something | Jan 23 14:06 |
| rnb | are you all foss advocates? | Jan 23 14:06 |
| MinceR | i don't even know about conducting crystals | Jan 23 14:06 |
| *MinceR is | Jan 23 14:06 | |
| rnb | i think the most effective thing we could do in the US is a large-scale campaign to force local, state and federal governments to migrate to free software | Jan 23 14:07 |
| rnb | actually, US/Canada | Jan 23 14:07 |
| rnb | interesting topic to talk about, or no? | Jan 23 14:07 |
| MinceR | how can you force them? new laws? | Jan 23 14:08 |
| Eruaran | Alien weaponry ? | Jan 23 14:08 |
| oiaohm | rnb: I am in Australia so cannot be really that much help. Our goverment in places is worse than yours. Like having to use windows to do tax returns. | Jan 23 14:09 |
| rnb | MinceR: well, we theoretically live in a representative democracy | Jan 23 14:09 |
| rnb | MinceR: it is our right to demand that our taxpayer dollars are used most efficiently | Jan 23 14:09 |
| oiaohm | Mac is not even a option. | Jan 23 14:10 |
| rnb | MinceR: especially now, with this climate against corporate corruption | Jan 23 14:10 |
| rnb | there are excellent case examples in countries of similar size to the US/Canada | Jan 23 14:10 |
| rnb | in particular, brazil | Jan 23 14:10 |
| rnb | but especially on the local level, there could be victories | Jan 23 14:10 |
| rnb | i think san francisco is a natural fit for such a campaign (and it happens to be where i live, and i and others have tested the waters in the past) | Jan 23 14:11 |
| rnb | you could quantify how much money is wasted | Jan 23 14:11 |
| MinceR | alien weaponry is more likely to work :> | Jan 23 14:12 |
| rnb | yeah ... the hardest part of my idea is convincing foss advocates to go for my plan :) | Jan 23 14:12 |
| MinceR | i wish you success | Jan 23 14:12 |
| rnb | i guess i need to just get a case success and then people would be more receptive | Jan 23 14:12 |
| Eruaran | You may need to look to Europe | Jan 23 14:13 |
| Eruaran | For examples | Jan 23 14:13 |
| rnb | in san francisco, a city official basically told me: with free software, who will take me out to fancy dinners? | Jan 23 14:13 |
| rnb | who will pay for me to attend fancy seminars in beautiful tourist locations? | Jan 23 14:14 |
| Eruaran | That's the kind of thing you expose in the media | Jan 23 14:14 |
| rnb | i tried; no one cared | Jan 23 14:14 |
| oiaohm | rnb Linux confs have nice ships. | Jan 23 14:14 |
| oiaohm | And support companies for Linux still can do the fancy dinners at times. | Jan 23 14:14 |
| rnb | i spoke at GOSCON about the latin american example, which is fantastic | Jan 23 14:14 |
| rnb | but GOSCON was dismal and disappointing | Jan 23 14:14 |
| rnb | i think the most powerful government official there was a county auditor from nowhereland, utah (literally) | Jan 23 14:15 |
| rnb | a friend of mine became a high school teacher where she & i went to high school together, in ohio | Jan 23 14:16 |
| rnb | i went to see their computer lab recently.. filled with Windows 98 machines that ran so slow, because they were filled with spyware and god knows what else | Jan 23 14:17 |
| Eruaran | I have a friend who's wife is a teacher | Jan 23 14:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | I once thought about boning a teacher | Jan 23 14:17 |
| rnb | that was after returning from brazil, where there are numerous state-of-the-art, free community computer labs | Jan 23 14:17 |
| rnb | all running free software | Jan 23 14:17 |
| Eruaran | She wanted to use her own notebook (which runs Ubuntu or Kubuntu I'm pretty sure) on the school's network | Jan 23 14:17 |
| rnb | giving students the opportunity to study kernels and operating systems and programming and so on | Jan 23 14:18 |
| Eruaran | They told her if she did she wouldn't have a job any more | Jan 23 14:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | Eruaran: she should haveq uit | Jan 23 14:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | I wouldnt work for a school district with shit that backwards | Jan 23 14:18 |
| rnb | Eruaran: that seems kind of harsh, although many schools/companies have that IT policy | Jan 23 14:18 |
| oiaohm | Some of the policy issues come from the fact policies are writen for windows. | Jan 23 14:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | in fact, I'd also organize the parents of the students to sue | Jan 23 14:19 |
| Eruaran | They will only let you use what they approve of | Jan 23 14:19 |
| oiaohm | Like requirement for realtime scanning. | Jan 23 14:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | any student who doesnt know linux out of school has no future | Jan 23 14:19 |
| rnb | the policy issues -can- make sense, given the resources of the organization | Jan 23 14:19 |
| Eruaran | The education system in Australia is deeply corrupt | Jan 23 14:19 |
| Eruaran | And it doesn't help that those running school networks are usually drones | Jan 23 14:19 |
| rnb | as an IT person, it's hard enough to support a standardized system where all employees get company-issed laptops with standard OS/etc | Jan 23 14:20 |
| rnb | for backups, groupware, etc | Jan 23 14:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: its very easy when you have a manditory linux policy | Jan 23 14:20 |
| rnb | that policy doesnt bother me so much ... but it should be foss on there :) | Jan 23 14:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | and I dont care what people use for their personal machines, you know why? | Jan 23 14:21 |
| cubezzz | I hear schools are making students use Microsoft Office | Jan 23 14:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | no personal machines get plugged in | Jan 23 14:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | period. | Jan 23 14:21 |
| oiaohm | Cisco systems these days internally don't care about the desktop machines. | Jan 23 14:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | if I have to use ethernet encryption, so be it | Jan 23 14:21 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: right, thats the policy | Jan 23 14:21 |
| oiaohm | There complete core company software is web based. | Jan 23 14:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: I doubt it | Jan 23 14:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | they cant enforce it | Jan 23 14:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | windows afiak does not support ethernet encryption | Jan 23 14:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | (literally, the jacks will not function at all if you dont authenticate) | Jan 23 14:22 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: well, no they cant enforce it, but you know what i mean? a company will give you a laptop w/standard config and then say you must use this for work-related stuff | Jan 23 14:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | now | Jan 23 14:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | if someone has a laptop with wimax | Jan 23 14:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont care | Jan 23 14:22 |
| Eruaran | Students in many schools are not even allowed to use their own choice of antivirus - they must BUY what the school allegedly approves | Jan 23 14:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not on my network | Jan 23 14:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | Eruaran: ahh, then I wouldnt install one | Jan 23 14:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | antiviruses are the leading killer of windows installs | Jan 23 14:22 |
| Eruaran | then they wont let you use the network | Jan 23 14:23 |
| rnb | cubezzz: it's true, and many vocational programs are based around Windows.. so students learn Word to become administrativ assistants, or Excel to even further improve their pay grade, etc | Jan 23 14:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | then they dont get my tax dollars | Jan 23 14:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | and I make a very large stink about it in the local newspapers | Jan 23 14:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | and then I also slashdot the newspaper | Jan 23 14:23 |
| Eruaran | thats how bad it is here | Jan 23 14:23 |
| rnb | cubezzz: that is a tough argument to make, for FOSS advocates | Jan 23 14:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | rule #1: never make me have to win, I will ruin you | Jan 23 14:23 |
| rnb | cubezzz: because the fact is ... like in ohio ... it -is- useful for kids to learn Word, or Excel, or etc | Jan 23 14:23 |
| rnb | cubezzz: it -does- open up job opportunities | Jan 23 14:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: no its not | Jan 23 14:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | no it doesnt | Jan 23 14:24 |
| rnb | of course it does | Jan 23 14:24 |
| cubezzz | why Ohio? | Jan 23 14:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | less and less companies use out of date software | Jan 23 14:24 |
| rnb | cubezzz: well, because thats where i'm from and it's what i know :) | Jan 23 14:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | they cant afford to pay for something 10 years old when they can get something 0 years old for free | Jan 23 14:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | companies cant afford, in literal dollars, to be behind | Jan 23 14:24 |
| cubezzz | is NCR still in Dayton? | Jan 23 14:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | I wont work for a company who relies on microsoft products due to job security reasons | Jan 23 14:24 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: i would say 95% of companies in northeast ohio use Microsoft Office, and admin assistants need to know office, excel, etc | Jan 23 14:25 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: it -is- the skill set required to get a job like that and be good at it | Jan 23 14:25 |
| oiaohm | You know what is funny rnb | Jan 23 14:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: then northeast ohio is going to be bankrupt. | Jan 23 14:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: I'd move before it collapses. | Jan 23 14:25 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: you arent listening. | Jan 23 14:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | No, you arent listening | Jan 23 14:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | using microsoft products == company death | Jan 23 14:25 |
| oiaohm | When I went threw school I had to learn word perfect and 1 2 3 something for being a admin assistant rnb | Jan 23 14:25 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: i am from ohio, i've lived in san francisco for 13 years or so | Jan 23 14:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | why would you want to work for a company thats already dead? | Jan 23 14:25 |
| oiaohm | Now where are they used rnb | Jan 23 14:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: answer that question | Jan 23 14:26 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: using microsoft products != company death, that's absurd | Jan 23 14:26 |
| oiaohm | Most important thing is not learning the application rnb its learning the thoery behind it. | Jan 23 14:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | paying for out of date broken software == company death, doubly so when you can get up to date working software for free | Jan 23 14:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | office is out of date. period. | Jan 23 14:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | its old hat. | Jan 23 14:26 |
| cubezzz | the problem for me is that students are told to use a specific version of Microsoft Office and they can't use OO | Jan 23 14:26 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: countless doctor/dentist offices, manufacturing companies, hell, video rental stores, telemarketing companies, etc... they use Windows | Jan 23 14:26 |
| oiaohm | rnb: using microsoft productions = death of company. During the sep 11 disaster. | Jan 23 14:27 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: who exactly do you think is Microsoft's enormous customer base? | Jan 23 14:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: no one | Jan 23 14:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | they dont have one. | Jan 23 14:27 |
| rnb | um | Jan 23 14:27 |
| oiaohm | Due to not being able to aford to set back up rnb | Jan 23 14:27 |
| Eruaran | Take out a full page ad in the paper | Jan 23 14:27 |
| cubezzz | the OEMs? :) | Jan 23 14:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: btw, most companies are moving to web browser based services | Jan 23 14:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: their install of windows is just to run firefox | Jan 23 14:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | they dont count | Jan 23 14:27 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: Microsoft does not have a customer base, this is your point? | Jan 23 14:27 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: you stand by that assertion? | Jan 23 14:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: microsoft doesnt have one beyond trying to do the microsoft tax through dell, etc | Jan 23 14:28 |
| cubezzz | it's usually forced on people | Jan 23 14:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | people buy a computer and throw windows out | Jan 23 14:28 |
| cubezzz | that's what I think he means | Jan 23 14:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | microsoft calls it a sale, I call it theft. | Jan 23 14:28 |
| rnb | anyway, in the real world, many vocational programs teach people entering the work force Word, Excel, etc so they can get "office jobs" rather than "McJobs" | Jan 23 14:28 |
| cubezzz | look, you can still work without Microsoft | Jan 23 14:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: there are very little office jobs left | Jan 23 14:28 |
| cubezzz | don't say you can't | Jan 23 14:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | many industries are moving to web browser based frontends to their tools | Jan 23 14:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | the app they're using isnt even running locally | Jan 23 14:29 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: you lost me at "Microsoft has no customer base" | Jan 23 14:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: you lost me at "Im from ohio, I think my opinion means something" | Jan 23 14:29 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: clever | Jan 23 14:29 |
| MinceR | :> | Jan 23 14:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | From an investor standpoint, Microsoft is loosing fake customers so fast if I had stock in them I would have sold it 2 years ago | Jan 23 14:30 |
| rnb | meanwhile, in the real world, vocational programs in most high schools teach kids Windows-based skills | Jan 23 14:30 |
| cubezzz | tech stocks are down actually | Jan 23 14:30 |
| rnb | so that they can get better jobs | Jan 23 14:30 |
| Eruaran | I told a former employer to sell his shares in Microsoft nearly 3 years ago. | Jan 23 14:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: but how can they use their windows skills in the real world? | Jan 23 14:30 |
| rnb | i dont think that foss advocates will get very far making an argument against that | Jan 23 14:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | Linux is everywhere. | Jan 23 14:31 |
| oiaohm | So was me learning apple in high school worth anything? rnb | Jan 23 14:31 |
| cubezzz | Linux _is_ everywhere | Jan 23 14:31 |
| cubezzz | it really is | Jan 23 14:31 |
| oiaohm | Remember rnb I am old enough to been in the OS changes. | Jan 23 14:31 |
| cubezzz | yeah I had punch cards :) | Jan 23 14:31 |
| oiaohm | So I learnt a lot of crap that is no longer used anywhere. | Jan 23 14:31 |
| cubezzz | plus Commodore PET :) | Jan 23 14:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | OSX secured the mass media people | Jan 23 14:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | desktop publishing, photography, movie making, music making, etc, all Macs | Jan 23 14:31 |
| oiaohm | Same thing will happen again rnb | Jan 23 14:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | no windows skills there | Jan 23 14:32 |
| cubezzz | ah, NCR moved out of Dayton | Jan 23 14:32 |
| oiaohm | Depends on the movie making. | Jan 23 14:32 |
| cubezzz | yeah it's a moving target for sure | Jan 23 14:32 |
| oiaohm | Some forms are Linux these days. | Jan 23 14:32 |
| rnb | oiaohm: no, in my high school there were vocational programs around desktop publishing/graphic design that were based on apple products, also | Jan 23 14:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | fucking shit up in a web browser because you're a telemarketer or whatever? OS doesnt matter, you're in a browser | Jan 23 14:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | medical shits all moving to browser-based | Jan 23 14:32 |
| Eruaran | You need general skills, familiarity, solid foundations. This will be much more valuable in the future. | Jan 23 14:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | embedded device work of any kind? linux or smaller | Jan 23 14:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | mass communications such as the internet? linux linux linux. | Jan 23 14:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only place windows still has a place is PC gaming | Jan 23 14:33 |
| oiaohm | Understanding of terms so you can explain what you are doing. More than knowning how to use a particular program. | Jan 23 14:33 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: that's nice. but when you go to find a job in ohio/indiana/pennsylvania/kentucky/etc, people will want to see that you know how to use Word and other M$ products. it is just a fact of life, whether you like it or not | Jan 23 14:33 |
| *ThistleWeb has quit ("Lost terminal") | Jan 23 14:33 | |
| oiaohm | People have forgot the importants of terms. | Jan 23 14:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: yes, and as I said way at the beginning, I WONT WORK FOR THEM | Jan 23 14:33 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: or whether it fits into your obvious delusional belief that no businesses use microsoft | Jan 23 14:34 |
| Eruaran | I had a friend who believed he could get away with only Windows skills until he started his first week at university. | Jan 23 14:34 |
| oiaohm | I still like asking some of these new kids what justified is. | Jan 23 14:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: I _will not_ get a job where I know the company will be bankrupt in the next 2-3 years if they dont change | Jan 23 14:34 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: no one cares who YOU would work for. i am talking about kids in high school | Jan 23 14:34 |
| Eruaran | In his first week they had him using Red Hat and Vi | Jan 23 14:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | job security is the _most_ important thing | Jan 23 14:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | period | Jan 23 14:34 |
| Eruaran | He panicked and told me, "I better learn Linux or I'll fail!" | Jan 23 14:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | whats the point of getting hired if you're just going to lose your job shortly after? | Jan 23 14:34 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: this is what i mean about sounding like an isolated, ivory tower dipshit | Jan 23 14:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | says rnb, the microsoft fanboy. | Jan 23 14:35 |
| Eruaran | Things can change quickly | Jan 23 14:35 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: your experience or what you would do != what kids just entering the workforce are doing | Jan 23 14:35 |
| Eruaran | And the IT world is due for change | Jan 23 14:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | what kids just entering the workforce == mcjobs | Jan 23 14:35 |
| rnb | hahaha microsoft fanboy? wow, you are not only delusional but you also have a tin ear | Jan 23 14:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | oh, and btw, many modern cash registers run linux | Jan 23 14:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | so even at mcjobs, its linux. | Jan 23 14:36 |
| cubezzz | example please | Jan 23 14:36 |
| oiaohm | My experince is schools teaching people software. Effects software aquirement of small businesses rnb | Jan 23 14:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | quite a few POS boxes are either linux or vxworks | Jan 23 14:36 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: oh, excellent point. i know that most retail stores require kids to know Linux before putting them in front of a cash register | Jan 23 14:37 |
| oiaohm | So not teaching open source causes areas to have less small businesses. rnb | Jan 23 14:37 |
| cubezzz | Ronald McDonald will be a linux hacker soon :) | Jan 23 14:37 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: i think you might be a little out-of-touch with what people need to know to get jobs like that | Jan 23 14:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: but why say stupid shit like that? | Jan 23 14:37 |
| oiaohm | Reason costs of MS windows limits what small business can do rnb | Jan 23 14:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | using a fucking tivo is using linux | Jan 23 14:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | calling your grandmother on your android phone is using linux | Jan 23 14:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | why automatically define linux as something thats hard to use | Jan 23 14:37 |
| Eruaran | Everything I learned in computing at high school in the 1980's was useless in the 1990's. | Jan 23 14:37 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: you dont need to learn linux skills to use a tivo | Jan 23 14:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: thanks for making my point. | Jan 23 14:38 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: you DO need to learn M$ Word skills to get a job at an office where everyone uses Windows | Jan 23 14:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | Not everything is difficult and user-hateful as windows. | Jan 23 14:38 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: why is this so hard for you to understand? | Jan 23 14:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: why do you believe this is true? | Jan 23 14:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | Working at a job like that is not job security | Jan 23 14:38 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: why do i believe WHAT is true? | Jan 23 14:38 |
| oiaohm | rnb: that is a joke. | Jan 23 14:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | Windows, and any company dependent on Microsoft, is dead if they dont change. | Jan 23 14:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | Windows costs the US economy billions every year | Jan 23 14:39 |
| oiaohm | My mother at work uses openoffice and ms word. | Jan 23 14:39 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: that's delusional. | Jan 23 14:39 |
| oiaohm | Reason openoffice can open damaged documents word cannot. | Jan 23 14:39 |
| Eruaran | No it isn't. | Jan 23 14:39 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: it is one of the main problems with foss advocacy -- delusion. | Jan 23 14:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | And thanks to our wonderful economic down turn, more companies realize they can half their IT staff and double their productivity by switching to Linux | Jan 23 14:39 |
| cubezzz | look what happened to GM | Jan 23 14:39 |
| oiaohm | rnb: there are costs | Jan 23 14:39 |
| cubezzz | no one is safe | Jan 23 14:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | Who wants a computer thats a security hazard? | Jan 23 14:40 |
| oiaohm | You think what happens if a business cannot open there old documents rnb | Jan 23 14:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | Who wants a computer that crashes at least twice a day? | Jan 23 14:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | Who wants to lose important business data? | Jan 23 14:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | No one. | Jan 23 14:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | Companies can't afford to be stupid. | Jan 23 14:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | Stupid companies are dead companies. | Jan 23 14:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | Microsoft == death. | Jan 23 14:40 |
| oiaohm | Your schools are creating students without the knowledge to help business threw simple problems rnb | Jan 23 14:40 |
| Eruaran | Diablo-D3 could have said the same thing about WordPerfect and Lotus 123 in the late 1980's and you might have said he was delusional then also. A few years later, it was all over for WordPerfect and Lotus. | Jan 23 14:40 |
| oiaohm | That can kill the businesses. rnb | Jan 23 14:40 |
| cubezzz | the current software isn't that good | Jan 23 14:41 |
| cubezzz | re: Microsoft | Jan 23 14:41 |
| cubezzz | it's mostly just an upgrade treadmill | Jan 23 14:41 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: see this page? http://www.indeed.com/q-Word-Processor-l-Akron-Ohio-jobs.html | Jan 23 14:41 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Word Processor Jobs in Akron, OH | Indeed.com .::. Size~: 53.67 KB | Jan 23 14:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | a "word processor" | Jan 23 14:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | lolololol | Jan 23 14:41 |
| rnb | "Skills -Exceptional MS Office to include Outlook, Word, & Excel" | Jan 23 14:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | jobs like that dont exist in the real world | Jan 23 14:41 |
| oiaohm | rnb: You are just like stupid eductationors. | Jan 23 14:41 |
| rnb | "Experienced processors preferred, or experience... Excel & Access, also Word. If qualified please submit... " | Jan 23 14:41 |
| oiaohm | Just because businesses are asking for X does not mean they need only X rnb | Jan 23 14:42 |
| rnb | "MS Office (Word & Outlook) skills are essential" | Jan 23 14:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | A "word processor" is fancy speak for "the boss is 60 years old and refuses to learn those new fangled keyboards" | Jan 23 14:42 |
| oiaohm | Do you give a drug addit drugs rnb | Jan 23 14:42 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: hahaha, these ARE real world job ads | Jan 23 14:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | Those people (thank God) are leaving the work force. | Jan 23 14:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: not in any part of the world I know | Jan 23 14:42 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: thats my point. | Jan 23 14:42 |
| oiaohm | rnb: Remember what I sad about small business being driven by what schools supply. | Jan 23 14:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean the other 49 states and most of Europe. | Jan 23 14:42 |
| oiaohm | said. | Jan 23 14:42 |
| MinceR | remember what a "food processor" does to food. the "word processor" does the same to words. :> | Jan 23 14:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | oh, and canada | Jan 23 14:43 |
| oiaohm | rnb: You are seeing the effects of closed loop. | Jan 23 14:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | and south america is linux > windows | Jan 23 14:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | and africa has linux all over the place | Jan 23 14:43 |
| rnb | oiaohm: that is not true, it would be a disservice to students to teach them something that isnt widely looked for in the job market that is open to THEM | Jan 23 14:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | and the chinese government also rolls their own linux distro | Jan 23 14:43 |
| Eruaran | It will be broken by disruptive new technologies. We can already see this happening. | Jan 23 14:43 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: i know all these things | Jan 23 14:44 |
| oiaohm | rnb: What if you teach studend both MS and openoffice. rnb | Jan 23 14:44 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: i'm not talking about south america, i'm talking about the US | Jan 23 14:44 |
| oiaohm | Long term effect business that take those students could start asking for people with openoffice skills rnb | Jan 23 14:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | if linux hasnt already won, why would microsoft be spending millions over the past 5 years to slur linux's name? | Jan 23 14:44 |
| oiaohm | Ie schools are in control. rnb | Jan 23 14:44 |
| rnb | oiaohm: sure, maybe.. but i think you will find most students have a hard enough time learning one office suite | Jan 23 14:44 |
| oiaohm | They are just too dumb to know it rnb | Jan 23 14:44 |
| oiaohm | Why rnb | Jan 23 14:44 |
| oiaohm | Do you know why. | Jan 23 14:44 |
| rnb | oiaohm: why what? | Jan 23 14:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: south america is supposed to be "worse" than us | Jan 23 14:45 |
| oiaohm | Have you ever asked them old school word processing terms. | Jan 23 14:45 |
| oiaohm | They dont' have a clue rnb | Jan 23 14:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | yet, economically, they stand a chance of catching up if your version of the US was real | Jan 23 14:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | thankfully, you're just an ignorant fuck on IRC | Jan 23 14:45 |
| Eruaran | A boy or girl beginning high school this year will be using software that will be irrelevant by the time he or she enters the workforce a few years from now. | Jan 23 14:45 |
| oiaohm | problem is to search the word processor manual and the like you need the old school word processor terms. rnb | Jan 23 14:45 |
| oiaohm | So schools are sending out students who are truly crap word processors. | Jan 23 14:46 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: my version -is- real and i've publicly spoken/written about how students in latin america are poised to have better tech skills than US students, heading into the future | Jan 23 14:46 |
| oiaohm | cannot talk word processing. | Jan 23 14:46 |
| oiaohm | So damaged effectiveness of job. rnb | Jan 23 14:46 |
| oiaohm | And its really annoying. | Jan 23 14:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | and yes, I do believe high school graduates should sue their schools | Jan 23 14:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | if they were exposed to windows _at all_ that has greatly harmed their chances of getting a job | Jan 23 14:46 |
| oiaohm | Like they are could you please show me all the time because they have no clue of terms. rnb | Jan 23 14:46 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: i'll go you one even further. i have personally worked on projects in south america, helping build public educational infrastructure with FOSS | Jan 23 14:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | the point of high school is to prepare them for their future jobs. | Jan 23 14:47 |
| oiaohm | A person skilled in word processing terms can use any Office suite. | Jan 23 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: then stop sucking microsoft's dick | Jan 23 14:47 |
| oiaohm | Really the exam for word processing should be droping them on a word processor they have never seen. | Jan 23 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | Microsoft will not be here in 10 years. | Jan 23 14:47 |
| oiaohm | And have to produce results. | Jan 23 14:47 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: you exemplify another downside that exists in the FOSS advocacy world, which is presumptiveness | Jan 23 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | oh, and btw | Jan 23 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | OOo is so close to office | Jan 23 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | ITS THE SAME FUCKING THING | Jan 23 14:47 |
| oiaohm | That can happen every 3 - 5 years with MS Office anyhow rnb | Jan 23 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | this is also proof "students" in "school" dont even learn how to use computers | Jan 23 14:47 |
| rnb | i'm not "sucking microsoft's dick" ... i am being realistic about the current job market | Jan 23 14:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | rnb: Im being realisticf | Jan 23 14:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | and we cant be both be realistic | Jan 23 14:48 |
| oiaohm | But then eductation system would not make money retraining staff over and over again rnb | Jan 23 14:48 |
| Eruaran | The current job market is not what many students will be entering | Jan 23 14:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | the current job market died 2 years ago, Eruaran | Jan 23 14:48 |
| Eruaran | the future job market is what they will be entering | Jan 23 14:48 |
| rnb | towards crafting an effective foss advocacy program (which is how this conversation was started by me, since you apparently failed to notice this) | Jan 23 14:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | we're going through the natural refresh period we do periodically | Jan 23 14:48 |
| oiaohm | The current education system is a vampire on Businesses rnb | Jan 23 14:48 |
| oiaohm | I am tell you rnb from a business point of view teaching MS Office does not make sence. | Jan 23 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Teach the fields correctly makes sence. rnb | Jan 23 14:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | afk | Jan 23 14:49 |
| rnb | now, watch as i decimate you: | Jan 23 14:49 |
| oiaohm | Like word processing truly being word processing on what ever word processor. | Jan 23 14:49 |
| rnb | http://cleveland.craigslist.org/search/ofc?query=linux&catAbbreviation=ofc | Jan 23 14:49 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: cleveland admin/office jobs classifieds "linux" - craigslist .::. Size~: 5.64 KB | Jan 23 14:49 |
| Eruaran | oiaohm is correct | Jan 23 14:50 |
| oiaohm | So students don't stuff up with office suite changes that will happen. | Jan 23 14:50 |
| rnb | http://cleveland.craigslist.org/search/ofc?query=microsoft+word&catAbbreviation=ofc | Jan 23 14:50 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: cleveland admin/office jobs classifieds "microsoft word" - craigslist .::. Size~: 13.77 KB | Jan 23 14:50 |
| rnb | end of argument. | Jan 23 14:50 |
| oiaohm | Wrong | Jan 23 14:50 |
| rnb | Diablo-D3: consider yourself owned :) | Jan 23 14:50 |
| oiaohm | How are those students goign to cope when the MS Office they where taught is no longer used answer me that. rnb | Jan 23 14:50 |
| oiaohm | Is business going to be forced to pay for retraining rnb? | Jan 23 14:51 |
| rnb | oiaohm: people need jobs TODAY. | Jan 23 14:51 |
| Eruaran | That arguent is like saying "Internet Explorer" rather than "Web Browser" | Jan 23 14:51 |
| rnb | oiaohm: not in some future fantasyland | Jan 23 14:51 |
| oiaohm | None of them in school have learnt MS Office 2010 rnb | Jan 23 14:51 |
| rnb | http://cleveland.craigslist.org/search/ofc?query=openoffice&catAbbreviation=ofc | Jan 23 14:51 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: cleveland admin/office jobs classifieds "openoffice" - craigslist .::. Size~: 4.96 KB | Jan 23 14:51 |
| oiaohm | Most have learnt Office 2007 or 2003. | Jan 23 14:51 |
| oiaohm | So nailed. rnb | Jan 23 14:51 |
| rnb | see how it says "Nothing found for that search"? | Jan 23 14:52 |
| oiaohm | That is the problem. Software does not stay constant. | Jan 23 14:52 |
| oiaohm | Remember I said openoffice as a training tool. | Jan 23 14:52 |
| oiaohm | To make sure students can cope with change. | Jan 23 14:52 |
| rnb | whereas the search for Microsoft Word returned over 70 results? | Jan 23 14:52 |
| oiaohm | so they are ready to work no matter what they hit. | Jan 23 14:52 |
| Eruaran | sigh... | Jan 23 14:52 |
| rnb | i even balanced the experiment in your favor | Jan 23 14:52 |
| oiaohm | Does 70 results change the factor. | Jan 23 14:52 |
| rnb | http://cleveland.craigslist.org/search/ofc?query=microsoft+office&catAbbreviation=ofc | Jan 23 14:53 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: cleveland admin/office jobs classifieds "microsoft office" - craigslist .::. Size~: 17.25 KB | Jan 23 14:53 |
| oiaohm | That this year there is a new office suite. | Jan 23 14:53 |
| rnb | 110 results | Jan 23 14:53 |
| Eruaran | Get a time machine and go back to 1987 | Jan 23 14:53 |
| oiaohm | that businesses will be using some time rnb | Jan 23 14:53 |
| Eruaran | Search for "WordPerfect" | Jan 23 14:53 |
| Eruaran | geez | Jan 23 14:53 |
| schestowitz | [14:52] <rnb> whereas the search for Microsoft Word returned over 70 results? | Jan 23 14:53 |
| rnb | http://cleveland.craigslist.org/search/ofc?query=WordPerfect&catAbbreviation=ofc | Jan 23 14:53 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: cleveland admin/office jobs classifieds "WordPerfect" - craigslist .::. Size~: 5.97 KB | Jan 23 14:53 |
| schestowitz | Improper stats | Jan 23 14:53 |
| rnb | 2 results | Jan 23 14:53 |
| oiaohm | That none of the students from last year are trianed in rnb. | Jan 23 14:53 |
| schestowitz | Like comparing "linux" to "vista" | Jan 23 14:53 |
| Eruaran | I said get a time machine | Jan 23 14:54 |
| oiaohm | Those results are point less rnb | Jan 23 14:54 |
| schestowitz | Or "mac os X" to "Gnu system" | Jan 23 14:54 |
| Eruaran | learn to listen | Jan 23 14:54 |
| rnb | schestowitz: let's be clear what we're looking for -- what is of -practical value- for people entering the work force, per what should be taught in vocational programs | Jan 23 14:54 |
| oiaohm | You are not explaining how students are going to cope with change. rnb | Jan 23 14:54 |
| Eruaran | Change will come, its a fact of life. | Jan 23 14:54 |
| schestowitz | rnb: OOo would let them teach colleague to save money | Jan 23 14:54 |
| rnb | schestowitz: my point is that foss advocacy should not try to change vocational programs in public schools, it is an ineffective strategy | Jan 23 14:54 |
| oiaohm | If you have access to a historic database of jobs you would see changes. | Jan 23 14:54 |
| oiaohm | Wrong rnb | Jan 23 14:55 |
| schestowitz | They can manage an office with decreased $10000 in expenses on a Trojan (Office) | Jan 23 14:55 |
| Eruaran | It's ineffective to teach students properly ? | Jan 23 14:55 |
| rnb | schestowitz: the only goal is for them to get a job | Jan 23 14:55 |
| oiaohm | public schools is the best way to sell Office suites. | Jan 23 14:55 |
| oiaohm | Truly it is rnb | Jan 23 14:55 |
| oiaohm | So if you want market space you use schools. | Jan 23 14:55 |
| schestowitz | A lot of offices can use other office suites now | Jan 23 14:55 |
| Eruaran | The goal of education is to educate | Jan 23 14:55 |
| schestowitz | I have no problem with mine without Office | Jan 23 14:55 |
| schestowitz | Never had to get a WIndows box to run office | Jan 23 14:56 |
| rnb | schestowitz: they *can* but most dont | Jan 23 14:56 |
| schestowitz | Not even to do nice animated slides in Presenter | Jan 23 14:56 |
| schestowitz | I could swap it with colleagues who used Office | Jan 23 14:56 |
| rnb | schestowitz: my point is that a better foss advocacy strategy is to focus on mandating local/state/federal governments to migrate to open source | Jan 23 14:56 |
| oiaohm | rnb: Answer me this how many students from last year were trained on Office 2010. | Jan 23 14:56 |
| Eruaran | And I say a student who has completed high school and doesn't even know how to save a document in MIcrosoft Word 2007 as a .doc instead of .docx is not educated. | Jan 23 14:56 |
| schestowitz | rnb: yes, like in Denmark | Jan 23 14:56 |
| schestowitz | rnb: I agree w/ you | Jan 23 14:56 |
| cubezzz | what is docx? | Jan 23 14:57 |
| rnb | schestowitz: and that i dont think it is an effective strategy to try and change vocational programs in high schools | Jan 23 14:57 |
| oiaohm | vocational programs is a target. | Jan 23 14:57 |
| Eruaran | The point is that they're not even teaching students how to save into different formats. | Jan 23 14:57 |
| oiaohm | Always has to be rnb | Jan 23 14:57 |
| Eruaran | This is not education | Jan 23 14:57 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: something I got just once by E-mail | Jan 23 14:57 |
| Eruaran | It's a joke | Jan 23 14:57 |
| schestowitz | I thought it was a virus, deleted it | Jan 23 14:57 |
| oiaohm | Even if you change goverment you will not change small business without changing schools rnb | Jan 23 14:57 |
| schestowitz | It was a mass-mailed msg, nothing important | Jan 23 14:57 |
| rnb | schestowitz: well, my experience re: governments/foss comes more from latin america, which provides the absolute best example in the world in terms of scope and scale | Jan 23 14:57 |
| oiaohm | And most business done is done by small business rnb | Jan 23 14:57 |
| oiaohm | Reason why MS does so well with SBS server rnb | Jan 23 14:58 |
| oiaohm | You just want to disreguard a loins share of the market rnb. | Jan 23 14:58 |
| cubezzz | just use the right tool for the job | Jan 23 14:58 |
| *Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@bl15-151-243.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 23 14:58 | |
| rnb | schestowitz: however, my argument here is that a number of people believe that vocational programs shouldnt teach Word/Excel/etc because: 1) "Microsoft has no customer base" and 2) those skills arent looked for in the job market | Jan 23 14:58 |
| cubezzz | or be self-employed :) | Jan 23 14:58 |
| rnb | schestowitz: my point is that this is delusional | Jan 23 14:59 |
| oiaohm | and you miss my point rnb | Jan 23 14:59 |
| rnb | schestowitz: for your average person looking for a job out of high school, Word/Excel/etc skills ARE what they need | Jan 23 14:59 |
| oiaohm | That thoses programs are not providing the people businesses want either. | Jan 23 14:59 |
| Eruaran | A student who knows how to handle a variety of computer systems and a variety of software has an enormous advantage over a student who has no idea beyond very basic indoctrination by corporation - such students will not show initiative and cannot problem solve | Jan 23 14:59 |
| oiaohm | What version of word rnb | Jan 23 14:59 |
| oiaohm | What version of Excel. | Jan 23 14:59 |
| oiaohm | The business wants students able to use what they are using. | Jan 23 14:59 |
| oiaohm | Not a student who has trained on 2007 but business is still using 2003 so is unable to use it. | Jan 23 15:00 |
| rnb | oiaohm: doesnt matter, familiarity with one version will make it easy for them to quickly learn another, if necessary. most job postings dont get that specific | Jan 23 15:00 |
| oiaohm | No it does not rnb | Jan 23 15:00 |
| rnb | sigh | Jan 23 15:00 |
| cubezzz | that's so short-sighted | Jan 23 15:00 |
| cubezzz | no one has balls? | Jan 23 15:00 |
| oiaohm | Only if there mind is trianed to be flexable can they move between versions effectively. rnb | Jan 23 15:00 |
| rnb | this is the problem with foss advocacy | Jan 23 15:00 |
| rnb | so, i tell you guys | Jan 23 15:00 |
| Eruaran | youre not advocating FOSS | Jan 23 15:00 |
| Eruaran | You're pushing M$ | Jan 23 15:01 |
| cubezzz | yeah really | Jan 23 15:01 |
| oiaohm | Problem is most of there minds are trained single tracked. rnb | Jan 23 15:01 |
| Eruaran | And you're not talking about education either | Jan 23 15:01 |
| oiaohm | I made lots of money doing MS Office retraining rnb on just out of school students. | Jan 23 15:01 |
| oiaohm | I know what I am talking about. | Jan 23 15:01 |
| oiaohm | They had complete vocational and were basically usless. | Jan 23 15:01 |
| rnb | go to ohio or michigan or kentucky or minnesota and tell people who want a job as an Admin Assistant, or who just want ANY kind of office job at all to get them out of McDonalds, that they should REALLY be studying Linux desktops because learning Word wont help them at all | Jan 23 15:02 |
| rnb | it's just completely out of touch with reality | Jan 23 15:02 |
| cubezzz | I never learned Word | Jan 23 15:02 |
| cubezzz | _never_ | Jan 23 15:02 |
| oiaohm | Not what I am saying rnb | Jan 23 15:02 |
| rnb | as proven by the job postings i showed you from cleveland | Jan 23 15:02 |
| oiaohm | I am saying with a good grounding in word procesisng. | Jan 23 15:02 |
| rnb | where there are hundreds of jobs asking for people with Word/Excel skills | Jan 23 15:02 |
| oiaohm | You can use word writer ... any office suite boss asks you to rnb | Jan 23 15:02 |
| Eruaran | I went to a class once where the students were supposed to be learning MIcrosoft Office | Jan 23 15:02 |
| Eruaran | I had never used it | Jan 23 15:02 |
| oiaohm | So way more flexable rnb | Jan 23 15:02 |
| Eruaran | I ended up helping the other students | Jan 23 15:03 |
| oiaohm | Problem is people coming out of schools are not flexaable. rnb | Jan 23 15:03 |
| rnb | and the search for Linux and OpenOffice returned ONE result, for a linux sysadmin. | Jan 23 15:03 |
| cubezzz | you can learn any system though | Jan 23 15:03 |
| oiaohm | So harming business. | Jan 23 15:03 |
| cubezzz | concept based learning trumps specific learning | Jan 23 15:03 |
| oiaohm | Does not matter how low the usage of Openoffice is rnb | Jan 23 15:03 |
| Eruaran | exactly cubezzz | Jan 23 15:03 |
| oiaohm | I am talking about teaching multiable office suits at once rnb | Jan 23 15:03 |
| oiaohm | Only people who let there mind be flexable can cope with that rnb | Jan 23 15:04 |
| Eruaran | Do you learn to drive a car or learn to drive a Ford Taurus ? | Jan 23 15:04 |
| oiaohm | And that is exacty what businesses want rnb | Jan 23 15:04 |
| cubezzz | there will be another shift in skills, since that is what always happens | Jan 23 15:04 |
| rnb | again, the vocational programs are designed to be quick, efficient, and teach you the direct skills you need to know to go out and get a job, ASAP | Jan 23 15:04 |
| oiaohm | Ie is not don't teach word. it teach word + writer + others. | Jan 23 15:04 |
| rnb | no one wants to learn irrelevant platforms that arent used in their job market | Jan 23 15:04 |
| oiaohm | and cause most of there students to be fired at the next change over. | Jan 23 15:05 |
| rnb | where are these "change overs" you speak of? | Jan 23 15:05 |
| oiaohm | Since it cheeper to fire them than retrain them. | Jan 23 15:05 |
| oiaohm | Office suite version change overs rnb | Jan 23 15:05 |
| rnb | why arent they advertised in the job boards? | Jan 23 15:05 |
| oiaohm | They are. | Jan 23 15:05 |
| oiaohm | What version MS Office are they asking for. | Jan 23 15:05 |
| rnb | why could we not find ONE ad in cleveland requesting someone with "OpenOffice skills" ? | Jan 23 15:05 |
| oiaohm | I was not meaning change from MS Office to Open Office | Jan 23 15:06 |
| oiaohm | I was meaning MS Office to MS Office | Jan 23 15:06 |
| rnb | but we found 77 for "microsoft word", and 111 for "microsoft office"? | Jan 23 15:06 |
| oiaohm | If they are not flexable they will be fired at a MS Office change over. | Jan 23 15:06 |
| oiaohm | That simple. | Jan 23 15:06 |
| oiaohm | and a new staff got. | Jan 23 15:06 |
| oiaohm | Part of the reason why there are so many wanted. | Jan 23 15:07 |
| oiaohm | OpenOffice staff don't get turned over. | Jan 23 15:07 |
| oiaohm | What is the point they don't need retraining. | Jan 23 15:07 |
| rnb | of course not, because they arent hired in the first place. | Jan 23 15:07 |
| oiaohm | No | Jan 23 15:07 |
| rnb | oiaohm: can i ask where you live? | Jan 23 15:07 |
| oiaohm | Everone highered will stay in there job as long as they like. | Jan 23 15:08 |
| oiaohm | Ok less are highered but that does not change. | Jan 23 15:08 |
| oiaohm | Australia rnb | Jan 23 15:08 |
| oiaohm | MS capital of sales in the world. | Jan 23 15:08 |
| oiaohm | We have the highest percent per head of MS software ownership anywhere rnb | Jan 23 15:08 |
| rnb | that's odd, Diablo-D3 said that Microsoft has no customer base | Jan 23 15:09 |
| rnb | are you saying there ARE M$ customers where you live? | Jan 23 15:09 |
| oiaohm | Mostly by force. | Jan 23 15:09 |
| rnb | doesnt matter why | Jan 23 15:10 |
| oiaohm | You cannot to business with goverment here without it. rnb | Jan 23 15:10 |
| rnb | exactly | Jan 23 15:10 |
| rnb | my | Jan 23 15:10 |
| rnb | point | Jan 23 15:10 |
| oiaohm | And that is self feed. | Jan 23 15:10 |
| oiaohm | And that started in education. | Jan 23 15:10 |
| oiaohm | Most of the goverment lackies know nothing else. | Jan 23 15:10 |
| rnb | agreed | Jan 23 15:11 |
| rnb | thats why M$ skills are required when you are looking for a job. | Jan 23 15:11 |
| oiaohm | Education is one of the keystones | Jan 23 15:11 |
| oiaohm | Holding MS market share. | Jan 23 15:11 |
| oiaohm | So are openoffice stills rnb | Jan 23 15:11 |
| oiaohm | For opening documents MS Office refuses to. | Jan 23 15:11 |
| oiaohm | That were made by past versions of MS Office | Jan 23 15:12 |
| oiaohm | You don't need many people in the archives converison departments rnb | Jan 23 15:12 |
| oiaohm | There are techincal reasons to make sure students know about more than 1 office suite. | Jan 23 15:13 |
| rnb | my point is very simple: 1) i think an effective foss campaign in the US/Canada would be to target local/state/federal governments and demand that they pass policies to migrate all their systems to FOSS, and 2) it is not an effective FOSS advocacy campaign to target vocational programs because in the real world, people need M$ skills to compete in that level of the job market | Jan 23 15:13 |
| rnb | those two points, that's all i'm saying | Jan 23 15:13 |
| oiaohm | The secound point is invalid | Jan 23 15:13 |
| oiaohm | People need FOSS skills to do there jobs to max effectiveness. | Jan 23 15:14 |
| Eruaran | Do you think if someone knows Open Office they won't understand how to use Microsoft Office ? | Jan 23 15:14 |
| rnb | heh. ok. | Jan 23 15:14 |
| oiaohm | People will keep there job of they can do something other staff cannot rnb | Jan 23 15:14 |
| Eruaran | Before I ever used Excel I previously used Lotus 123 and Quattro Pro | Jan 23 15:15 |
| rnb | Eruaran: i think that having some form of credentials/evidence that you have experience/training in M$ office is what employers are looking for on resumes | Jan 23 15:15 |
| oiaohm | Like opening old documents rnb | Jan 23 15:15 |
| Eruaran | Did these hinder me or give me an advantage ? | Jan 23 15:15 |
| rnb | Eruaran: and that 99% of hiring managers for these types of jobs have never even HEARD of OpenOffice | Jan 23 15:15 |
| oiaohm | Its not just getting the job rnb its keeping it. | Jan 23 15:15 |
| oiaohm | That is where the education system is short visioned rnb | Jan 23 15:15 |
| Eruaran | You're missing the point completely | Jan 23 15:16 |
| oiaohm | Same with lot of business I have covereted old documents for when I got here. rnb | Jan 23 15:16 |
| oiaohm | Some of those now advertised for OpenOffice skills. rnb | Jan 23 15:16 |
| oiaohm | Just because they came into contact with one person who knew it. | Jan 23 15:17 |
| rnb | oiaohm: i'm all for FOSS in the educational system, for all the standard reasons. however, i dont think pushing for it in vocational programs is an effective FOSS strategy, because you are arguing to teach irrelevant skill sets to people who desperately want to stop working at Burger King and land a nice office job | Jan 23 15:17 |
| oiaohm | I am saying landing job is half the battle rnb | Jan 23 15:17 |
| Eruaran | Irrelevant skillset ? | Jan 23 15:17 |
| oiaohm | That is what you are missing. | Jan 23 15:17 |
| oiaohm | Holding the job means being great at it. rmb | Jan 23 15:18 |
| oiaohm | You will not out do a cross skilled person rmb | Jan 23 15:18 |
| oiaohm | If you only know MS Office | Jan 23 15:18 |
| Eruaran | Do you really believe the concepts are so vastly different between word processors ? | Jan 23 15:18 |
| oiaohm | concepts are not vastly different. | Jan 23 15:18 |
| oiaohm | But files they can open are vastly different. | Jan 23 15:18 |
| Eruaran | yes | Jan 23 15:18 |
| oiaohm | Even like .doc files. | Jan 23 15:19 |
| oiaohm | Some like Office 95 .doc files will not open at all in MS Office | Jan 23 15:19 |
| oiaohm | but open perfectly in OpenOffice | Jan 23 15:19 |
| rnb | oiaohm: again, most people in vocational programs -- between other pressures in their life like kids/family, whatever -- have a hard enough time studying one platform | Jan 23 15:19 |
| MinceR | if people learn it the wrong way, the differences will seem vast to them | Jan 23 15:19 |
| oiaohm | rnb: I have taught 2 office suites at the same time to people. | Jan 23 15:19 |
| MinceR | and focusing on one particular application can lead to that | Jan 23 15:19 |
| oiaohm | It takes no more time. rnb | Jan 23 15:19 |
| Eruaran | My point is that here we have someone talking about "irrelevant skillsets" when the concepts are not difficult to translate from one program to another | Jan 23 15:19 |
| Eruaran | Microsoft doesn't invent any new concepts | Jan 23 15:19 |
| oiaohm | Instead you most focus on using the correct terms. rnb. | Jan 23 15:20 |
| rnb | oiaohm: i know plenty of people who have done exactly this and i can just imagine telling them that the Word class they are taking at night will NOW have another requirement for them to get a little thing that says they know "Word" so they can put it on their resume | Jan 23 15:20 |
| oiaohm | The end result is students that cope with any Office suite droped in frount of them without issue rnb | Jan 23 15:20 |
| oiaohm | So they can lie about the version of word they know. | Jan 23 15:20 |
| rnb | ok, well, i think you're really onto something. you should open up an "OpenOffice Training Center" in Akron, Ohio | Jan 23 15:21 |
| oiaohm | So they can apply for more jobs. | Jan 23 15:21 |
| oiaohm | Never would rnb | Jan 23 15:21 |
| oiaohm | What I run is word processor training classes. | Jan 23 15:21 |
| rnb | you'll be a millionaire with all the people flocking to the one vocational school in town that offers it | Jan 23 15:21 |
| Eruaran | You can have spent your entire educational upbringing using FOSS software, spend a few minutes looking at Microsoft Word and write "I knowz teh MS Wordz" on your resume | Jan 23 15:21 |
| oiaohm | People come out able to use full range of MS Office Full range of Open Office Full range of IBMS suite. | Jan 23 15:21 |
| rnb | Eruaran: people have not spent their entire educational upbringing using FOSS software. | Jan 23 15:21 |
| oiaohm | So they look highly effective rnb | Jan 23 15:22 |
| rnb | oiaohm: url? | Jan 23 15:22 |
| oiaohm | For the same ammount of time people just walk way skilled in MS Office 1 version. | Jan 23 15:22 |
| oiaohm | Yes that is also cheating. | Jan 23 15:22 |
| rnb | oiaohm: you're saying that it is your job to do exactly what we are talking about? | Jan 23 15:22 |
| rnb | oiaohm: you are a vocational instructor? | Jan 23 15:22 |
| oiaohm | Some of the time rnb yes. | Jan 23 15:22 |
| oiaohm | I am a vocational instructor. | Jan 23 15:23 |
| rnb | oiaohm: where at? | Jan 23 15:23 |
| Eruaran | rnb: You are someone who is quite adept at missing the point by a wide margin. That must take practice. | Jan 23 15:23 |
| oiaohm | Currently I am doing network adminationation. | Jan 23 15:23 |
| oiaohm | I am basically a full business solution provider rnb | Jan 23 15:23 |
| rnb | oiaohm: well, where before, then? | Jan 23 15:23 |
| rnb | Eruaran: i am making the point, and you are disagreeing with me | Jan 23 15:23 |
| oiaohm | I have enough work by word of month rnb | Jan 23 15:23 |
| oiaohm | Companies like my results. | Jan 23 15:24 |
| Eruaran | rnb: There you go again. Congrats. | Jan 23 15:24 |
| oiaohm | Personally I hate having to run training classes. | Jan 23 15:24 |
| rnb | oiaohm: right. ANYWAY... my point is about public vocational education or adult education classes | Jan 23 15:24 |
| oiaohm | I do adult education classes | Jan 23 15:24 |
| oiaohm | To be correct staff education classes | Jan 23 15:25 |
| Eruaran | No one else here can make a point. rnb is making all the points. Only those points will be considered. rnb has spoken. | Jan 23 15:25 |
| oiaohm | Retraining the people who are basically failures because of the other trainers. | Jan 23 15:25 |
| oiaohm | Yet they have a certificate saying they can do it. | Jan 23 15:25 |
| rnb | oiaohm: ok, amazing this didnt come up earlier | Jan 23 15:25 |
| oiaohm | It did | Jan 23 15:26 |
| oiaohm | I was telling over and over again they are not flexable. | Jan 23 15:26 |
| oiaohm | You were not getting what I was getting at. | Jan 23 15:26 |
| oiaohm | The complete classes in all those volcation places are design just to give a person a bit of paper to get there foot in the door of a job. | Jan 23 15:26 |
| rnb | sure. | Jan 23 15:27 |
| oiaohm | Not what they need to keep that job. | Jan 23 15:27 |
| rnb | well, maybe things are radically different in .au | Jan 23 15:27 |
| cubezzz | actual learning is more important that the certificate | Jan 23 15:27 |
| rnb | i'm speaking about the job market in US/Canada | Jan 23 15:27 |
| rnb | (although i doubt it is that different) | Jan 23 15:27 |
| oiaohm | Why will not a business not fire lower staff and higher new ones when they change office suite. | Jan 23 15:27 |
| oiaohm | Because that is cheaper than retraining the lower ones that are not flexable. | Jan 23 15:28 |
| oiaohm | So creating a effect of more market demard appearing in job markets. | Jan 23 15:28 |
| rnb | it's extraordinarily expensive to fire/hire people, thats why | Jan 23 15:28 |
| oiaohm | Compared to retraining no so much. | Jan 23 15:28 |
| rnb | but your premise is wrong to begin with, people will not be fired when a new version of Word comes out | Jan 23 15:28 |
| oiaohm | USA is the same as here. | Jan 23 15:28 |
| oiaohm | Its not exactly lined up. | Jan 23 15:29 |
| oiaohm | Companies are smart. | Jan 23 15:29 |
| oiaohm | They wait for at least the first service pack before changing over rnb | Jan 23 15:29 |
| oiaohm | Yes it does line up rnb | Jan 23 15:29 |
| rnb | assuming the company immediately upgrades (which they dont), they dont fire their admin assistant whenever a new version of Office comes out | Jan 23 15:29 |
| oiaohm | Some do rnb | Jan 23 15:29 |
| oiaohm | And higher someone with a broader skill set | Jan 23 15:29 |
| rnb | eh, i'm growing tired of this silly argument | Jan 23 15:30 |
| oiaohm | The boarder the skill set lower the risk of being fired is. | Jan 23 15:30 |
| oiaohm | Its not silly. | Jan 23 15:30 |
| rnb | the topic is not but the content here is. | Jan 23 15:31 |
| oiaohm | There are two halfs to having a job. | Jan 23 15:31 |
| oiaohm | You only want to look at one. | Jan 23 15:31 |
| oiaohm | Ie getting and holding it. | Jan 23 15:31 |
| rnb | uh huh | Jan 23 15:31 |
| oiaohm | Some assistance are fired simple because they refuse to be flexable since they were never trained to be. | Jan 23 15:32 |
| oiaohm | Brain flexablity is trained. | Jan 23 15:32 |
| rnb | http://jobsearch.monster.com/Search.aspx?brd=1&q=microsoft%20word&cy=us&where=detroit%2C%20mi&rad=20&rad_units=miles&re=130 | Jan 23 15:33 |
| rnb | http://jobsearch.monster.com/Search.aspx?brd=1&q=microsoft%20word&cy=us&where=detroit%2C%20mi&rad=20&rad_units=miles&re=130#brd=1&q=openoffice&cy=us&where=detroit%2C%20mi&rad=20&rad_units=miles&re=95&pg=1&dv=1 | Jan 23 15:33 |
| rnb | oops | Jan 23 15:33 |
| Eruaran | geez rnb this is not brain surgery | Jan 23 15:33 |
| Eruaran | you are just not listening | Jan 23 15:34 |
| rnb | 2nd url is -> | Jan 23 15:34 |
| rnb | http://jobsearch.monster.com/Search.aspx?brd=1&q=openoffice&cy=us&where=detroit%2C%20mi&rad=20&rad_units=miles&re=130 | Jan 23 15:34 |
| Eruaran | what a waste of time | Jan 23 15:34 |
| rnb | 1st search = 119 jobs | Jan 23 15:34 |
| rnb | 2nd search = 1 job (and i'm amazed at that) | Jan 23 15:34 |
| Eruaran | talking to a brick wall | Jan 23 15:35 |
| rnb | i'm sorry that the real world does not fit with what you'd like it to be | Jan 23 15:35 |
| Eruaran | Enjoy your lowest common denominator job training, and a workforce of underpaid permatemps | Jan 23 15:36 |
| rnb | employers dont care if you know linux or openoffice, in the job market i'm talking about | Jan 23 15:36 |
| Eruaran | were not even talking about linux or openoffice ! | Jan 23 15:36 |
| Eruaran | ffs | Jan 23 15:36 |
| Eruaran | what a moron | Jan 23 15:36 |
| rnb | haha | Jan 23 15:36 |
| cubezzz | there's lots of linux jobs | Jan 23 15:37 |
| rnb | cubezzz: i'm referring specifically to vocational programs in high schools or even adult education programs for people looking to upgrade from a REALLY shitty job to a nice office job | Jan 23 15:37 |
| Eruaran | were talking about real job skills not crappy certs from job club | Jan 23 15:37 |
| rnb | cubezzz: not the IT job market | Jan 23 15:38 |
| Eruaran | permatemps | Jan 23 15:38 |
| Eruaran | not a nice job | Jan 23 15:38 |
| rnb | i've repeatedly stated my point, which apparently you disagree with | Jan 23 15:39 |
| rnb | Eruaran: again, in the real world, an office job -is- a nice job | Jan 23 15:39 |
| Eruaran | you've repeatedly and deliberately blocked your ears to any point anyone has made | Jan 23 15:39 |
| rnb | Eruaran: something they strive to get and dont really know how to | Jan 23 15:39 |
| Eruaran | I live in the real world thanks | Jan 23 15:39 |
| rnb | Eruaran: by all means, make a point | Jan 23 15:40 |
| Eruaran | I have | Jan 23 15:40 |
| Eruaran | as have others | Jan 23 15:40 |
| rnb | Eruaran: can you summarize it, as i've done for you several times? | Jan 23 15:40 |
| Eruaran | Stop insulting everyones intelligence with this inane merry go round of avoidance | Jan 23 15:40 |
| Eruaran | Summary: real skills | Jan 23 15:41 |
| rnb | can your summary include a verb? | Jan 23 15:41 |
| Eruaran | no | Jan 23 15:41 |
| rnb | i didnt think so | Jan 23 15:41 |
| cubezzz | everyone lives in the real world, lol | Jan 23 15:42 |
| cubezzz | is there some other one? | Jan 23 15:42 |
| Eruaran | If you haven't gotten the point yet no amount of verbs are going to help you | Jan 23 15:42 |
| oiaohm | THe biggest problem rnb. Is getting that what the job market requests and what businesses need are two different things. | Jan 23 15:43 |
| oiaohm | You hope they match up but real world they don't rnb | Jan 23 15:44 |
| rnb | ok, so how do you disagree with what i've said, given that fascinating assertion? | Jan 23 15:44 |
| oiaohm | You are using information that gives you a false assertion. | Jan 23 15:45 |
| oiaohm | Ask businesses what is there common issues with word processed documents. | Jan 23 15:45 |
| oiaohm | One of the most common ones is documents failing to open. | Jan 23 15:45 |
| oiaohm | Due to version changes. | Jan 23 15:45 |
| rnb | oiaohm: so? | Jan 23 15:46 |
| oiaohm | Do those course you were talking about provide people with the skills to deal with that. | Jan 23 15:46 |
| rnb | oiaohm: yes, they teach you how to use Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc | Jan 23 15:47 |
| oiaohm | Answer most don't. So they are not meeting businesses needs. | Jan 23 15:47 |
| Eruaran | lol | Jan 23 15:47 |
| oiaohm | Do they teach you how to coveret from old version of word to new rnb | Jan 23 15:47 |
| oiaohm | Where you have to use items like OpenOffice at times. | Jan 23 15:47 |
| rnb | oiaohm: if it is the #1 need of businesses? of course | Jan 23 15:47 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Jan 23 15:47 |
| rnb | *have to use* OpenOffice at times? | Jan 23 15:48 |
| oiaohm | There is no other option. | Jan 23 15:48 |
| oiaohm | Its the only thing that will run on a modern OS that can open some of the old formats rnb | Jan 23 15:48 |
| rnb | how do all these businesses function, then, when OpenOffice has never once been installed at their company? | Jan 23 15:48 |
| cubezzz | ok, time for me to work :) | Jan 23 15:48 |
| cubezzz | installing linux on computers :) | Jan 23 15:48 |
| oiaohm | Lot of business lose documents and so on over it rnb | Jan 23 15:48 |
| oiaohm | Since they have no one that knows better they live with the lose rnb | Jan 23 15:49 |
| oiaohm | You have the myth people are learnign what business needs. | Jan 23 15:49 |
| cubezzz | oiaohm, let it go, he's never going to agree | Jan 23 15:49 |
| oiaohm | The questions stop at what Office suite the business are using from most training companies. | Jan 23 15:49 |
| oiaohm | Not what issues business are having rnb | Jan 23 15:49 |
| rnb | if it were true that OpenOffice is ABSOLUTLELY NEEDED in order for a company to function ... it might appear more often in job ads. | Jan 23 15:50 |
| oiaohm | So they don't have the data to meet the needs of businesses so they don't. | Jan 23 15:50 |
| oiaohm | Again that is only if the company knows they need it rnb | Jan 23 15:50 |
| rnb | isnt that an odd disconnect? | Jan 23 15:50 |
| rnb | well, certainly SOME companies must know it | Jan 23 15:50 |
| oiaohm | Not really rnb | Jan 23 15:50 |
| oiaohm | So you see 1 or 2 jobs asking for it. | Jan 23 15:51 |
| oiaohm | Because a small percent know. | Jan 23 15:51 |
| oiaohm | And of course they don't tell the competition. | Jan 23 15:51 |
| oiaohm | Why help a competitor. | Jan 23 15:51 |
| rnb | (i'm humoring you, because of course you dont NEED openoffice) | Jan 23 15:51 |
| rnb | but, if that were true, and the companies dont know it | Jan 23 15:51 |
| rnb | and the hiring managers dont know it | Jan 23 15:52 |
| cubezzz | you don't NEED microsoft office either | Jan 23 15:52 |
| rnb | and no one knows it, its a BIG SECRET | Jan 23 15:52 |
| rnb | how could it possibly affect people being hired or fired? | Jan 23 15:52 |
| oiaohm | You have got it right so far rnb | Jan 23 15:52 |
| oiaohm | When did the managers learn about open office and what it can do rnb | Jan 23 15:52 |
| rnb | but the managers dont, right? | Jan 23 15:53 |
| rnb | only 1 or 2 companies in the job market even KNOW this incredible secret | Jan 23 15:53 |
| rnb | according to what you're saying ... | Jan 23 15:53 |
| oiaohm | Its not that secret | Jan 23 15:53 |
| rnb | whoops! | Jan 23 15:53 |
| rnb | ok, so now it isnt secret | Jan 23 15:53 |
| oiaohm | Just they don't even know it could exist. | Jan 23 15:53 |
| oiaohm | So they don't even look for it. | Jan 23 15:53 |
| oiaohm | Tunneled vision caused by bad training. | Jan 23 15:54 |
| rnb | which brings me back to wondering why it isnt including on the job requirements they are posting? | Jan 23 15:54 |
| oiaohm | Only if managers know about it will it be there. | Jan 23 15:54 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Another #Microsoft Vice President Abandons the Company http://boycottnovell.com/2010/01/23/enrique-rodriguez-quits-mobile-bruises/ | Jan 23 15:54 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Another Microsoft Vice President Abandons the Company | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 103.5 KB | Jan 23 15:54 |
| oiaohm | That is you problem job postings explain nothing rnb | Jan 23 15:54 |
| rnb | so, there's this big competitive secret to making a company work | Jan 23 15:55 |
| rnb | no one knows it | Jan 23 15:55 |
| oiaohm | IBM has there own office suit based of open office for a reason rnb | Jan 23 15:55 |
| rnb | and thats why foss advocates should push openoffice on vocational programs | Jan 23 15:55 |
| oiaohm | It improves effectiveness of company. | Jan 23 15:56 |
| oiaohm | A company can still run without it but they run else effectively. | Jan 23 15:56 |
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| rnb | this whole thing has degenerated into absurdity. thousands of companies function fine without linux or openoffice, people looking for work dont need openoffice skills to get or retain a job and thats why i say it isnt an effective strategy for foss advocacy. | Jan 23 15:57 |
| Omar87 | Greetings everyone! | Jan 23 15:57 |
| oiaohm | And the more effective a company runs the more chance it will grow and emply more. | Jan 23 15:57 |
| rnb | Omar87! salaam | Jan 23 15:57 |
| oiaohm | rnb: difference here you have not done studies on people with openoffice skills. | Jan 23 15:57 |
| oiaohm | combinded with MS Office skils. | Jan 23 15:57 |
| oiaohm | they are not either or. | Jan 23 15:57 |
| oiaohm | The joint normally are the last to be fired rnb. | Jan 23 15:58 |
| Omar87 | rnb: wa alaikom al salam. :-) | Jan 23 15:58 |
| oiaohm | The retain bit by you is crap rnb | Jan 23 15:58 |
| rnb | Omar87: :) | Jan 23 15:58 |
| oiaohm | rnb: little quesiton how many hours to retrain a person from MS Office to Open Office. | Jan 23 15:59 |
| rnb | Omar87: you know, i just noticed in the news that i've been so busy, i missed that there was an attack against an israeli diplomatic convoy in jordan some days ago | Jan 23 16:00 |
| rnb | Omar87: do you know if a group claimed credit for that? | Jan 23 16:01 |
| rnb | oiaohm: really.. it's just too absurd to continue | Jan 23 16:02 |
| Omar87 | rnb: I haven't heard of anything like that. | Jan 23 16:03 |
| oiaohm | rnb: 8 hours . Most is just showing the person where the minor differences are. | Jan 23 16:05 |
| rnb | Omar87: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8459992.stm | Jan 23 16:05 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jan 23 16:05 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 97.59 KB | Jan 23 16:05 |
| rnb | Omar87: did people in Jordan, generally, have high hopes for Obama & the Palestinian peace process? | Jan 23 16:07 |
| rnb | Omar87: i'm sure by now, they realize that Obama isnt going to change anything really | Jan 23 16:08 |
| rnb | Omar87: but when he first got elected | Jan 23 16:08 |
| Omar87 | <rnb> Omar87: did people in Jordan, generally, have high hopes for Obama & the Palestinian peace process? | Jan 23 16:08 |
| Omar87 | rnb: Only the ignorants. | Jan 23 16:09 |
| rnb | Omar87: heheheheh | Jan 23 16:09 |
| Omar87 | <rnb> Omar87: i'm sure by now, they realize that Obama isnt going to change anything really | Jan 23 16:09 |
| rnb | Omar87: same here | Jan 23 16:09 |
| Omar87 | rnb: yes that's true, perhaps. Though given, they are ignorants, there's also a slight possiblity that they still think Obama is Superman. | Jan 23 16:10 |
| rnb | Omar87: if anything, they've made things worse by making that weak statement about settlements | Jan 23 16:11 |
| rnb | Omar87: and israel completely ignored them | Jan 23 16:12 |
| Omar87 | rnb: I believe one thing that might work with some of them, and that is to show them Obama standing in the AIPAC declraning is luciferian devotion to Israel under all cercumstances. | Jan 23 16:12 |
| rnb | Omar87: eh, they ar completely owned by AIPAC | Jan 23 16:12 |
| Omar87 | declaring* | Jan 23 16:13 |
| Omar87 | declaring his*.. | Jan 23 16:13 |
| Omar87 | rnb: it seems you didn't enjoy hearing the word "luciferian", huh? | Jan 23 16:18 |
| rnb | Omar87: i dont mind that word | Jan 23 16:21 |
| Omar87 | rnb: i see. | Jan 23 16:21 |
| Omar87 | rnb: but..? | Jan 23 16:21 |
| rnb | Omar87: the US/Israel policies are evil, if you ask me | Jan 23 16:22 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @ml2mst I was in a similar situation | Jan 23 16:22 | |
| rnb | Omar87: i would say that more US *people* -- like, normal people -- are becoming more aware of what is being done to the palestinians | Jan 23 16:25 |
| rnb | Omar87: this is one of the few hopes i have about the situation | Jan 23 16:25 |
| Omar87 | rnb: that's correct. | Jan 23 16:26 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Internet Explorer Vulnerable a Day After the Critical Patch, #Firefox Keeps Gaining, But China Remains Stuck http://ur1.ca/kid9 | Jan 23 16:33 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Internet Explorer Vulnerable a Day After the Critical Patch, Firefox Keeps Gaining, But China Remains Stuck | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 106.69 KB | Jan 23 16:33 |
| rnb | Omar87: the problem is ... | Jan 23 16:34 |
| rnb | Omar87: it doesnt really matter what *people* in the US think :( | Jan 23 16:34 |
| Omar87 | rnb: Well, imho, ppl of the US should spend more time freeing themselves first. :-) | Jan 23 16:37 |
| rnb | Omar87: i agree | Jan 23 16:38 |
| rnb | Omar87: i work on it, every day | Jan 23 16:38 |
| rnb | Omar87: yesterday, the Supreme Court here made it even easier for corporations and lobbyists to bribe politicians | Jan 23 16:39 |
| Omar87 | rnb: I just love what Goerge Carlin once said about "the politians". :) | Jan 23 16:42 |
| Omar87 | Does anyone know if Freenode allows Tor? | Jan 23 16:42 |
| MinceR | iirc they support it through a hidden service | Jan 23 16:43 |
| MinceR | but when there's an attack going on through Tor, they disable it | Jan 23 16:43 |
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| MikeyC | Roy, you there? | Jan 23 16:58 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] The later years http://cheezburger.com/View.aspx?aid=3074268928 | Jan 23 17:02 | |
| schestowitz | Hey, MikeyC | Jan 23 17:03 |
| schestowitz | yes, I'm here | Jan 23 17:03 |
| schestowitz | What's up? | Jan 23 17:03 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Messages from the Thought Police ( #Microsoft / #Novell ) http://boycottnovell.com/2010/01/23/firefox-gnu-linux-fud/ #spin #fud #mono #idg | Jan 23 17:30 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Messages from the Thought Police (Microsoft/Novell) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 104.88 KB | Jan 23 17:30 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Motorola asks ITC to ban the Blackberry ouf of the US market for the violation of 5 patents http://i5.be/amK | Jan 23 17:47 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | Motorola Asks ITC To Ban BlackBerry Imports .::. Size~: 63.23 KB | Jan 23 17:47 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Activists kicked out and the public had to sign NDA in order to talk about ACTA: http://i5.be/amL | Jan 23 17:49 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Activist ejected from "public" meeting on secret copyright treaty for tweeting Boing Boing .::. Size~: 44.42 KB | Jan 23 17:49 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] FAO Drupal admins; Fusion & Skinr open all sorts of theming doors for your site. Check the video out & try it out http://tinyurl.com/ld9wcc | Jan 23 18:03 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Fusion | drupal.org .::. Size~: 21.65 KB | Jan 23 18:03 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Bush père e fils have left #Iraq radioactive & poisoned. #war http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/22/iraq-nuclear-contaminated-sites | Jan 23 18:10 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Bush père et fils have left #Iraq radioactive & poisoned. #war http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/22/iraq-nuclear-contaminated-sites | Jan 23 18:11 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Sundance offers Klein's "Shock Doctrine" by video on demand http://bit.ly/4HTJYW (perfect timing) #haiti #tarp #iraq #katrina #bailouts | Jan 23 18:22 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Sundance Selects Gets 3 Films From 2010 Festival For VOD Platform - 2010-01-08 17:00:47 | Multichannel News .::. Size~: 97.27 KB | Jan 23 18:22 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] "10 #Apple mistakes" about half right. Several facts wrong. http://timesonline.typepad.com/technology/2010/01/when-apple-gets-it-wrong.html | Jan 23 18:27 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: When Apple gets it wrong: 10 irritations from the last decade - Tech Central - Times Online - WBLG .::. Size~: 54.11 KB | Jan 23 18:27 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @qu1j0t3 many in Iraq reportedly get cancer after this (but not just this) | Jan 23 18:37 | |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing http://ur1.ca/kim4 #globalwarming #fud #patents #whitewash | Jan 23 18:49 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 121.33 KB | Jan 23 18:49 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: ^^ | Jan 23 18:49 |
| FurnaceBoy | .... | Jan 23 18:50 |
| *FurnaceBoy taps his outrage meter | Jan 23 18:50 | |
| FurnaceBoy | is it safe to go in there> | Jan 23 18:50 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] @schestowitz cancer, birth defects, the whole nine yards. While not new news, this is a huge crime even over & above the invasion & genocide | Jan 23 18:50 | |
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| ed-209 | heh | Jan 23 19:02 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] "Bill Gates: de facto minister noone can elect or impeach" #Gates Foundation corrupts & undermines #education worldwide http://bit.ly/4WBCx3 | Jan 23 19:02 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 121.33 KB | Jan 23 19:02 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] .@AriannaHuff ington is simply part of the problem, not part of the solution. http://bit.ly/4WBCx3 #gates #corruption #greed #microsoft | Jan 23 19:03 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 121.33 KB | Jan 23 19:03 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Huffington Post participates in #Gates family reputation laundering. http://bit.ly/4WBCx3 #mafia #crime #greed #fraud #corruption #microsoft | Jan 23 19:04 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 121.33 KB | Jan 23 19:04 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Bill #Gates launches new attacks on the environment from Huffington Post. http://bit.ly/4WBCx3 #crime #greed | Jan 23 19:05 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 121.33 KB | Jan 23 19:05 |
| cubezzz | now what? :) | Jan 23 19:07 |
| cubezzz | yeah ok, I don't understand how Gates "make a killing" from that article | Jan 23 19:09 |
| cubezzz | I must be missing something | Jan 23 19:09 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Today: Bill #Gates syndicated by Huffington Post. Tomorrow: #Kissinger gets a column in Socialist Worker. | Jan 23 19:09 | |
| FurnaceBoy | the killing is just en passant | Jan 23 19:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: flattered to be quoted | Jan 23 19:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | heh | Jan 23 19:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | speaking of Socialist Worker. http://socialistworker.org/department/Opinion/John-Pilger | Jan 23 19:11 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: John Pilger | SocialistWorker.org .::. Size~: 26.64 KB | Jan 23 19:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | one of the great journalists. | Jan 23 19:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: ^^ :) | Jan 23 19:11 |
| cubezzz | yeah Gates is still the richest | Jan 23 19:12 |
| FurnaceBoy | when did wealth become an alternative to accountability? | Jan 23 19:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | oh.. never mind.. | Jan 23 19:14 |
| cubezzz | well with bucks you can buy influence obviously | Jan 23 19:14 |
| cubezzz | "n Go(l)d we trust" :) | Jan 23 19:15 |
| cubezzz | In | Jan 23 19:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes, what you said was right. when you're the richest man, half the US population worships you even if you eat babies on stage. | Jan 23 19:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's cultural training | Jan 23 19:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | ends justify the means | Jan 23 19:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | etc | Jan 23 19:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | "You can't arrest me! I'm rich!" | Jan 23 19:16 |
| cubezzz | I really do admire Stallman though | Jan 23 19:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | and in fact, as we see from Novell case, "You can't depose me! I'm rich and busy!" | Jan 23 19:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | (that really happened) | Jan 23 19:17 |
| cubezzz | I can believe it | Jan 23 19:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | groklaw has an article on it | Jan 23 19:17 |
| FurnaceBoy | fawning sycophancy | Jan 23 19:18 |
| cubezzz | US senators seem to kiss Gates' ass a lot | Jan 23 19:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | there's several problems 1) suppression of facts 2) denial of revealed facts 3) ideology: rich people are, a priori, entitled | Jan 23 19:19 |
| cubezzz | it's tough to avoid | Jan 23 19:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes, it's a vicious circle. | Jan 23 19:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | and when supposedly progressive media buy into it... | Jan 23 19:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | well... | Jan 23 19:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | at least now I see who Arianna really is | Jan 23 19:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | that saved some time and confusion | Jan 23 19:20 |
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| cubezzz | yes, some people admire the ruthless businessman | Jan 23 19:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: it's an ideology... | Jan 23 19:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: a completely uncivilised one | Jan 23 19:21 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz: The state is worse than any businessman | Jan 23 19:21 |
| DaemonFC | they go out and charge people with crimes they can essentially buy their way out of | Jan 23 19:21 |
| DaemonFC | got $600? That's as good as a get out of jail free card for most misdemeanors | Jan 23 19:23 |
| *jono has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jan 23 19:23 | |
| FurnaceBoy | did the misdemeanor occur? | Jan 23 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | plus the $400 to your lawyer to "negotiate" the pre-trial diversion | Jan 23 19:23 |
| FurnaceBoy | Microsoft's crimes are hardly in dispute | Jan 23 19:23 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: The state slapped me with a baseless charge back in 2008 | Jan 23 19:24 |
| DaemonFC | $1000 made it all go away | Jan 23 19:24 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: why do you stick around there? | Jan 23 19:24 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you're describing the system that lets Microsoft continue unchanged, sure. | Jan 23 19:24 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know, it's crooked as hell | Jan 23 19:24 |
| DaemonFC | my attorney advised me not to go to court because they didn't even need any evidence against me | Jan 23 19:25 |
| DaemonFC | it was just the judge's decision of who to believe, the state, or me | Jan 23 19:25 |
| FurnaceBoy | isn't that the definition of a trial? | Jan 23 19:25 |
| DaemonFC | well, generally they have to prove you did something before sending you to jail for a year I though | Jan 23 19:25 |
| DaemonFC | *thought | Jan 23 19:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you had the chance to go before a judge | Jan 23 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | but this is just the statement of another person against me, as read by the state | Jan 23 19:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: are you saying the judge said, "pay me or i'll convict" | Jan 23 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | not the judge | Jan 23 19:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: so why would the judge convict? | Jan 23 19:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you're assuming the judge was in on it | Jan 23 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | the state told the judge to remove it after I paid them | Jan 23 19:26 |
| DaemonFC | the judge gets away with committing crimes regularly | Jan 23 19:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | you paid to avoid a trial. isn't that part of the system? | Jan 23 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | the police let him go | Jan 23 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | that judge in particular, that is | Jan 23 19:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | corporations do this all the time | Jan 23 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | mainly drunk driving | Jan 23 19:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | every single day. Intel just did it with AMD | Jan 23 19:27 |
| DaemonFC | they've pulled him over several times that I'm aware of and let him go | Jan 23 19:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: well, you can shoot him. | Jan 23 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | the judge is also a Republican | Jan 23 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | who is having sex with my landlord | Jan 23 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | (another man) :P | Jan 23 19:28 |
| DaemonFC | running on the platform of "family values" | Jan 23 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | needless to say, I didn't feel too confident to let him decide whether or not I spend 1 year in jail and got a $5,000 fine | Jan 23 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | I wish I could pay a private detective to follow him and take some pictures of the goings on between my landlord and the judge | Jan 23 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | leak the evidence out anonymously and destroy the SOB | Jan 23 19:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: pretty soon it will be legal to shoot gays and you can just do that. | Jan 23 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: It already is if you use the Twinkie Defense or the Gay Panic Defense | Jan 23 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | (sometimes, depends on the jury) | Jan 23 19:32 |
| cubezzz | umm | Jan 23 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | Twinkie Defense got the 1st degree murder charges dropped to voluntary manslaughter in the case of the murderer of Harvey Milk | Jan 23 19:33 |
| cubezzz | what does "Twinkie Defense" mean? | Jan 23 19:33 |
| DaemonFC | the defendant's lawyer claimed the guy was not thinking clearly because of a bad diet of junk food that he was eating at the time | Jan 23 19:33 |
| FurnaceBoy | ... | Jan 23 19:33 |
| DaemonFC | the press dubbed it the Twinkie Defense | Jan 23 19:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | well, that applies to most ppl in the continental USA. | Jan 23 19:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | the whole country should use the Twinkie Defence | Jan 23 19:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | to excuse being complete f***ing idiots | Jan 23 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, flimsy grounds to let a guy that murdered a gay man go | Jan 23 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | which was all they needed | Jan 23 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | Then there's the Gay Panic Defense, which was started with the Matthew Shepard murder, which did not work there but has acquitted in several other trials | Jan 23 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | "He was hitting on me, I didn't know what to do, so I killed him...your honor" | Jan 23 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | "The defense rests" | Jan 23 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Jan 23 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | so the Gay Panic Defense probably gives you at least a 50/50 shot of having the charges dropped | Jan 23 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | it's a form of "temporary insanity" | Jan 23 19:37 |
| FurnaceBoy | holy crap. Shepard. that was horrible. | Jan 23 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: Either or "justice" system lets the bad guy off the hook, or they maliciously prosecute innocent people | Jan 23 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | it's badly broken | Jan 23 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | *our | Jan 23 19:38 |
| cubezzz | they attack guys in mixed marriages too | Jan 23 19:38 |
| cubezzz | it's just hatred | Jan 23 19:38 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I see now why your heart is broken after supporting Obama | Jan 23 19:38 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: he was a chance, eh :-/ | Jan 23 19:38 |
| FurnaceBoy | not so much... | Jan 23 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | maybe | Jan 23 19:38 |
| FurnaceBoy | his tenure has so far been a cynical nightmare. | Jan 23 19:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | plus ca change | Jan 23 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | I figured it couldn't be any worse than Bush, which he's not, but he's not much better | Jan 23 19:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | it was a shell game. | Jan 23 19:39 |
| cubezzz | it's the banks I think | Jan 23 19:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | we got Black Bush | Jan 23 19:39 |
| cubezzz | the American banks seem really screwed up | Jan 23 19:39 |
| FurnaceBoy | we? sorry. you. but we transitively, as we all pay for US faults | Jan 23 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | he's still throwing billions at companies that deserve to fail | Jan 23 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | it's not creating jobs | Jan 23 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | and he's trying to get illegal aliens amnesty | Jan 23 19:40 |
| cubezzz | seriously I wouldn't want the job :) | Jan 23 19:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | that policy of Bush's was rejected | Jan 23 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | occasionally makes detours to finance foreign abortion clinics | Jan 23 19:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | I am sure it will continue to be rejected. | Jan 23 19:40 |
| cubezzz | blamed for every problem... | Jan 23 19:40 |
| schestowitz | [19:09] <cubezzz> yeah ok, I don't understand how Gates "make a killing" from that article | Jan 23 19:40 |
| schestowitz | He postpones global warming | Jan 23 19:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: that *is* the job. he's just a spokesman, an actor. | Jan 23 19:40 |
| schestowitz | As in hey, "let's just ask warming to hold on for a bit" | Jan 23 19:40 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: he knew what it was about when he accepted it. | Jan 23 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | I wouldn't make a very effective president, FurnaceBoy, I'd get the Jesse Ventura Effect | Jan 23 19:41 |
| schestowitz | And meanwhile he's investing in Nigerian oil, Monsanto's damage of soil for short-term financial gains, etc. | Jan 23 19:41 |
| MikeyC | hey roy | Jan 23 19:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: he;s invested in waste. | Jan 23 19:41 |
| DaemonFC | the Congress overrules almost everything I veto because they're still Democrats and Republicans | Jan 23 19:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: he's the perfect capitalista | Jan 23 19:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: I am thining of Ash's dialogue in Alien | Jan 23 19:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: thinking* | Jan 23 19:41 |
| MikeyC | zapatista? | Jan 23 19:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: "How can you not admire it? It's a perfect organism" | Jan 23 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: So even a president that was not a corporate shill wouldn't be enough | Jan 23 19:42 |
| cubezzz | Ash being the android? | Jan 23 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | 80% of the crap that Congress does would still pass | Jan 23 19:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: that's an oxymoron. there is no other president possible | Jan 23 19:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: yes :) | Jan 23 19:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: i read the shooting script the other day. godd*mn that film is well done. | Jan 23 19:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: it's beautiful how Ash's dialogue is crafted | Jan 23 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | I liked Aliens better | Jan 23 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | the Vietnam-style platoon of marines | Jan 23 19:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: to be on-message while not giving the game away. it's chilling. | Jan 23 19:43 |
| schestowitz | hey, MikeyC | Jan 23 19:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: yes, that's the crass yankee take. Alien I is far more subtle | Jan 23 19:43 |
| schestowitz | I'm catching up | Jan 23 19:43 |
| cubezzz | I always wondered what the deal was with that giant reclining lifeform near the beginning of the movie | Jan 23 19:44 |
| schestowitz | Did some work today | Jan 23 19:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: the Navigator, isn't he called? | Jan 23 19:44 |
| cubezzz | FurnaceBoy, I think so | Jan 23 19:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: that's a great concept... i think the concept art fleshed that out more. | Jan 23 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: I just don't like the slow moving monster movies | Jan 23 19:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: he was in a deleted scene in Aliens as well | Jan 23 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | "It's right behind you!!!!" is so old | Jan 23 19:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: you can find it on YouTube | Jan 23 19:44 |
| cubezzz | Poltergeist was a bit of a shocker too | Jan 23 19:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: yeah I remember it well | Jan 23 19:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: another finely crafted film | Jan 23 19:45 |
| DaemonFC | Drag Me To Hell was alright | Jan 23 19:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: well, Alien is slow yes, but it's deliberate | Jan 23 19:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I actually love slow movies hahaha | Jan 23 19:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: people vomited in the focus group showings in the US | Jan 23 19:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: and passed out iirc | Jan 23 19:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Drag me to Hell -- haha, i did see that. laughed through most of it, it was good comedy | Jan 23 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: I want the monster to be something that can scare me just by watching it | Jan 23 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | Alien just didn't do that for me | Jan 23 19:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: the alien *doesn't*?? | Jan 23 19:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | wow. | Jan 23 19:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | you're hard | Jan 23 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | I watched it when I was like 5 | Jan 23 19:46 |
| cubezzz | lol, I just typed sss.boggle.com | Jan 23 19:46 |
| cubezzz | space 1999 had that giant spider thing :) | Jan 23 19:47 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: yes, i saw it at about 10, my brother was 8 or something | Jan 23 19:47 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] \o/ for pathauto in Drupal | Jan 23 19:47 | |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: Something that has me looking behind my back kind of creeped out | Jan 23 19:47 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: didn't sleep for six months :D | Jan 23 19:47 |
| DaemonFC | Alien was so far from doing that | Jan 23 19:47 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: JAWS made me scared to go int he pool for like a year | Jan 23 19:47 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: our school took us to see it | Jan 23 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: You are aware that sharks are in the ocean? | Jan 23 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Jan 23 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | of course pools might not be safe either in Florida | Jan 23 19:48 |
| DaemonFC | alligator got into our hotel pool when we were there once | Jan 23 19:48 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: yes I am, but i was just a kid :) | Jan 23 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | I got to watch animal control pull it out | Jan 23 19:49 |
| cubezzz | you couldn't have been very old when Jaws came out | Jan 23 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | now imagine being in a pool with that thing | Jan 23 19:49 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: probably saw it around 11 years old | Jan 23 19:49 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: wasn't first release, i think | Jan 23 19:49 |
| cubezzz | ah | Jan 23 19:49 |
| FurnaceBoy | cubezzz: i'm still amazed our school took the class to see it | Jan 23 19:49 |
| cubezzz | I remember the "Lips" shirts that had a shark with huge lips on it :) | Jan 23 19:49 |
| DaemonFC | I hate snakes and spiders especially | Jan 23 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | I've only ever seen two snakes in Indiana, and one was poisonous | Jan 23 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | I ended up catching it when I went fishing | Jan 23 19:50 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agkistrodon_piscivorus | Jan 23 19:51 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Agkistrodon piscivorus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 97.66 KB | Jan 23 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | one of those | Jan 23 19:51 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Now sipping my first beer in two weeks. Mmmmmmm bliss. | Jan 23 19:51 | |
| DaemonFC | one of the fishermen had a machete for cleaning fish with | Jan 23 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | so I beheaded the snake with it | Jan 23 19:51 |
| DaemonFC | they cut it up and we used it for catfish bait | Jan 23 19:52 |
| DaemonFC | and it works well as catfish bait too | Jan 23 19:52 |
| DaemonFC | I had a catfish whisker go through my hand once (not that trip) | Jan 23 19:53 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jan 23 19:53 |
| cubezzz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Jockey_(Alien) | Jan 23 19:55 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Space Jockey (Alien) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 41.96 KB | Jan 23 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: There's a few ways to prepare those, stuffed, blackened, deep fried | Jan 23 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | several more | Jan 23 19:55 |
| DaemonFC | I like it prepared any way, but blackened is my favorite | Jan 23 19:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | http://www.mnftiu.cc/2010/01/21/5-jokes-about-the-apparent-eagerness-of-certain-democratic-members-of-congress-to-abandon-health-care-reform-in-light-of-scott-browns-electoral-victory/ | Jan 23 19:58 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: www.mnftiu.cc » Blog Archive » 5 Jokes About The Apparent Eagerness Of Certain Democratic Members Of Congress To Abandon Health Care Reform In Light Of Scott Browns Electoral Victory .::. Size~: 13.17 KB | Jan 23 19:58 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: Earth's military was trying to use the things as a weapon too | Jan 23 19:58 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jan 23 19:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: Weyland-Yutani | Jan 23 19:58 |
| DaemonFC | military contractors | Jan 23 19:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: "This future isn't as distant as you think." | Jan 23 19:58 |
| DaemonFC | I doubt the military would be stupid enough to release them anywhere on Earth | Jan 23 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | you never know though | Jan 23 19:59 |
| DaemonFC | the whole "queen" concept is kind of stupid | Jan 23 20:00 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: well, they don't exist. there are plenty of real problems to worry about, such as the military spraying depleted uranium around like confetti at a wedding | Jan 23 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | plus what do they eat when they've killed everything on the planet? | Jan 23 20:00 |
| DaemonFC | I mean, I know they can go dormant, but.... | Jan 23 20:00 |
| FurnaceBoy | http://twitter.com/qu1j0t3/status/8118646643 | Jan 23 20:01 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Twitter / Toby Thain: #Bush père et fils have le ... .::. Size~: 10.71 KB | Jan 23 20:01 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: try to concentrate on real problems | Jan 23 20:01 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @davidgerard cheers | Jan 23 20:02 | |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: The way it works is. The government has the troops on the ground firing this kind of ammunition (and things like white phosphorous), without knowing what it is they're being exposed to. | Jan 23 20:02 |
| DaemonFC | Then the government abandons them years later when they are sick and disabled from the exposure. | Jan 23 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | gives them experimental anthrax vaccines | Jan 23 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | all kinds of shit | Jan 23 20:03 |
| DaemonFC | then the problem is made worse by the fact that you can only sue the (federal) government if the government consents to being sued | Jan 23 20:04 |
| DaemonFC | they can dismiss your suit for any number of reasons, their favorite is "state secrets" | Jan 23 20:04 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: nukes too | Jan 23 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Nuclear testing sites | Jan 23 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | Obama is using that excuse as much as Bush was | Jan 23 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Where they have them exposed to fallout and stuff | Jan 23 20:05 |
| schestowitz | But it's OK | Jan 23 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Cause the troops are poor anyway | Jan 23 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Some will end up in prison and thus be incapable of suing the govt.. | Jan 23 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | if they weren't poor, they wouldn't join up | Jan 23 20:05 |
| DaemonFC | no rich people enlist | Jan 23 20:06 |
| schestowitz | There's some good footage of how they exposed soldiers to nuclear debris at nuclear testing sites some decades ago | Jan 23 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | rich people are never in the military unless it's as some kind of an officer who will never be shot at | Jan 23 20:06 |
| schestowitz | There are also experiments like this being done on children when they needed to test new methods | Jan 23 20:06 |
| schestowitz | Radiation | Jan 23 20:06 |
| schestowitz | Many kids diedd | Jan 23 20:06 |
| schestowitz | But they test it on "lesser" kids | Jan 23 20:06 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I don't care about the troops. What about the civilians whose country it is, whose futures are tied to these now-toxic and useless tracts of land? | Jan 23 20:06 |
| schestowitz | Usually minorities or people in another country | Jan 23 20:06 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: "Someone said 'alien', and Vasquez thought they meant illegal alien signed up!" | Jan 23 20:07 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jan 23 20:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: let's spray Maryland with DU and see how you fucks like it | Jan 23 20:07 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: Monsanto poisoned some areas in south USA | Jan 23 20:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: of course | Jan 23 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Like DuPont | Jan 23 20:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: half of it is poisoned anyway. perchlorate. MTR. yadda yadda | Jan 23 20:08 |
| schestowitz | And many black people still get cancer | Jan 23 20:08 |
| schestowitz | Maybe got cancer as kids | Jan 23 20:08 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I would never live in the south | Jan 23 20:08 |
| schestowitz | Monsanto paid them about $800ml in settlement | Jan 23 20:08 |
| schestowitz | It was mini money | Jan 23 20:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: that's hardly a solution for those WHO DO | Jan 23 20:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: it's not *all about you* | Jan 23 20:08 |
| schestowitz | Given what they would make in profit as a result in years to come | Jan 23 20:08 |
| schestowitz | They settled cheaply with poor people in current generation | Jan 23 20:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: the microsoft strategy | Jan 23 20:08 |
| schestowitz | But what about the future generation that will suffer too? | Jan 23 20:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: ad infinitum | Jan 23 20:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: how the heck are we going to undo GMO? :/ | Jan 23 20:09 |
| schestowitz | ANd those areas of the US are no longer inhabitable because of toxins | Jan 23 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: Of course not, but the stereotypical southerner that isn't well educated is not a stereotype once you get down to Arkansas | Jan 23 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Jan 23 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | Alabama | Jan 23 20:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I've spent enough time in GA | Jan 23 20:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: and I'm not very impressed with what I see outta FL either. | Jan 23 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | Georgia is a lot better off than Alabama | Jan 23 20:09 |
| DaemonFC | or Arkansas | Jan 23 20:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | or LA | Jan 23 20:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | Lousiana* | Jan 23 20:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | Louisiana* | Jan 23 20:10 |
| FurnaceBoy | welp. must work | Jan 23 20:10 |
| *FurnaceBoy (n=FurnaceB@bas1-toronto10-1279398804.dsl.bell.ca) has left #boycottnovell ("WeeChat 0.2.6.1") | Jan 23 20:10 | |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: http://www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/home/2010/01/im-glad-that-munir-hussain-has-been-released.html | Jan 23 20:13 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: I'm glad that Munir Hussain has been released - Big Brother Watch .::. Size~: 41.02 KB | Jan 23 20:13 |
| rnb | hello | Jan 23 20:14 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Putting Fedora 12 back on one of my rigs...downloading over 387 updates! | Jan 23 20:14 | |
| DaemonFC | the feds keep punishing the southern states with crap like the Voting Rights Act | Jan 23 20:14 |
| DaemonFC | only 9 states have to comply with it | Jan 23 20:15 |
| rnb | mmm | Jan 23 20:15 |
| rnb | the US sprays that poison all over farmers in colombia | Jan 23 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: It's what you get there I guess | Jan 23 20:15 |
| rnb | right now. today.. | Jan 23 20:15 |
| DaemonFC | now laws to defend homeowners from burglars | Jan 23 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | all the rights immediately go to the criminal | Jan 23 20:16 |
| rnb | *socialist* farmers, that is | Jan 23 20:16 |
| rnb | the ones growing coca for uribe's friends are protected by the US military | Jan 23 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | here, it's kind of the opposite, if someone breaks into my home and I believe they're there to cause me harm, I can shoot and kill them, and haven't committed a crime | Jan 23 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | but their family can sue me | Jan 23 20:17 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: actually, there are cases where it is a crime, i believe | Jan 23 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | rnb: If you don't have good reason to believe they're threatening you | Jan 23 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | just repeat after me | Jan 23 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | "It was dark and I thought they had a weapon" | Jan 23 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think there's going to be a jury that sides against you | Jan 23 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | they're all thinking "What would I do?" | Jan 23 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | and coming to the conclusion "Shoot them" | Jan 23 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | so it's very rare to be brought up on charges for defending your home, and even if you are, it will be something like involuntary manslaughter | Jan 23 20:19 |
| rnb | it depends | Jan 23 20:20 |
| rnb | a jury wont be sympathetic if you blow the head off of a 12-year-old | Jan 23 20:21 |
| rnb | (and rightly so, i'd say) | Jan 23 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | Indiana law provides for Involuntary Manslaughter for killing someone that is attempting to commit a felony | Jan 23 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | and that's only if the killing was only partially justified | Jan 23 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | the state can't charge you with murder if you shot and killed a person who was committing a felony | Jan 23 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | but if they were going to cause you harm, they don't bring charges usually | Jan 23 20:22 |
| rnb | i agree with that, with the caveat that i'd say the US criminal justic system is objectively impossible to defend as remotely fair | Jan 23 20:22 |
| DaemonFC | so rnb, the state of Indiana says that if I shoot and kill you while you are stealing my car, it's Involuntary Manslaughter | Jan 23 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | If you're coming at me with a weapon, there won't be any charges against me | Jan 23 20:23 |
| schestowitz | rnb: yes, they spray not just with chemicals | Jan 23 20:23 |
| rnb | schestowitz: what else is there to spray? | Jan 23 20:23 |
| schestowitz | [20:21] <DaemonFC> Indiana law provides for Involuntary Manslaughter for killing someone that is attempting to commit a felony | Jan 23 20:24 |
| DaemonFC | Involuntary Manslaughter is a Class C Felony | Jan 23 20:24 |
| rnb | oh, i see.. bullets | Jan 23 20:24 |
| schestowitz | I bet DaemonFOX goes hunting for people who intend to commit crime | Jan 23 20:24 |
| DaemonFC | with a maximum of 10 years in prison | Jan 23 20:24 |
| schestowitz | This way he can shoot them and walk away freely | Jan 23 20:24 |
| rnb | haha | Jan 23 20:25 |
| rnb | unfortunately, i certainly know people who have that kind of mentality | Jan 23 20:25 |
| schestowitz | That's why people join the army sometuimes | Jan 23 20:25 |
| MikeyC | yup | Jan 23 20:25 |
| schestowitz | They get to blow off many people without accountability | Jan 23 20:25 |
| rnb | they'd love nothing better than to have someone break into their house so they can use their gun | Jan 23 20:25 |
| schestowitz | In the police, you can bully people and your colleagues cover up | Jan 23 20:25 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: I'm not going to risk 10 years in prison for shooting someone, I'm just saying that if they were stealing my car, I'd never get more than 10 years for it | Jan 23 20:25 |
| DaemonFC | and half of that would be suspended | Jan 23 20:26 |
| DaemonFC | so no more than 5 years | Jan 23 20:26 |
| rnb | that's if you kill someone | Jan 23 20:26 |
| DaemonFC | killing someone who is stealing your car is probably 5 years served of a 10 year sentence | Jan 23 20:26 |
| DaemonFC | could be less than that, but not more | Jan 23 20:26 |
| schestowitz | I bet you bought the "trespassers will be shot" bumper stick, DaemonFOX | Jan 23 20:27 |
| rnb | a group i know in ohio trains people in firearms and, against conventional wisdom, teaches you to shoot for legs or other non-fatal spots | Jan 23 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: No, that sets up intent | Jan 23 20:27 |
| rnb | almost every firearms trainer instructs you that if you're going to shoot, shoot to kill | Jan 23 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | As stupid as the "If you can read this, I can hit my brakes and sue you" stickers | Jan 23 20:27 |
| rnb | which is fkn stupid | Jan 23 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | rnb: I agree | Jan 23 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | with the instructors | Jan 23 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | if you have to take them down, shoot to kill | Jan 23 20:28 |
| rnb | thats why all the police shootings are like "they shot him 45 times!!!!" but ... that's just standard training | Jan 23 20:28 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFOX tends to lead discussions here into arms | Jan 23 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | then it's your word vs. theirs | Jan 23 20:28 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: that's absurd | Jan 23 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | no, try to hit them twice if you can | Jan 23 20:28 |
| DaemonFC | but never in the back ;) | Jan 23 20:28 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: i dont know if you've ever seen someone shot to death? | Jan 23 20:28 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: it certainly changed my perspective to see it | Jan 23 20:29 |
| schestowitz | Kennedy | Jan 23 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | good for you | Jan 23 20:29 |
| rnb | i mean.. in person | Jan 23 20:29 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC never saw it | Jan 23 20:29 |
| schestowitz | He never left his continent | Jan 23 20:29 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: i think you would have a different perspective | Jan 23 20:29 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFOX saw it in FOX | Jan 23 20:30 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: to see someone full of life and then, suddenly, totally absent of life | Jan 23 20:30 |
| DaemonFC | well, apparently I have no right to self defense in the UK | Jan 23 20:30 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: it is something else | Jan 23 20:30 |
| schestowitz | http://rawstory.com/2010/01/usgs-claims-venezuela-holds-earths-largest-oil-reserves/ | Jan 23 20:30 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: USGS claims Venezuela sits on Earths largest oil reserves | Raw Story .::. Size~: 30.63 KB | Jan 23 20:30 |
| rnb | schestowitz: excellent :) | Jan 23 20:30 |
| DaemonFC | I don't want to be maliciously attacked by the UK legal system when someone tries to mug me and I fend them off | Jan 23 20:30 |
| rnb | schestowitz: as i understand it, though, a lot of is the kind of oil that's harder to process | Jan 23 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | the police should treat me as their victim, not the other way around | Jan 23 20:31 |
| rnb | schestowitz: i forget the term right now | Jan 23 20:31 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: where do you live? | Jan 23 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | Indiana, USA | Jan 23 20:31 |
| rnb | oh, hell.. to paraphrase the godfather, we're practically paisans! | Jan 23 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | uhhhhm.....k | Jan 23 20:32 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[thistleweb] I'm really starting to like this Fusion theme for #Drupal after I figured out the CSS is blank, ready to be themed | Jan 23 20:32 | |
| rnb | except i've lived in SF most of my adult life | Jan 23 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | does that mean that you're gonna make me an offer I can't refuse? | Jan 23 20:32 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: what does 'FC' stand for? | Jan 23 20:33 |
| MikeyC | Football Club? | Jan 23 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | nope | Jan 23 20:33 |
| rnb | thats what i thought | Jan 23 20:33 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] via @johnderosa RT @marjieN: "A billion here, a billion there, sooner or later it adds up to real LAW." <-- fixed that for ya! #gop #fraud | Jan 23 20:33 | |
| MikeyC | Foxtrot Charlie? | Jan 23 20:34 |
| _goblin | I asked that a while ago....never got an answer..... | Jan 23 20:34 |
| DaemonFC | Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo | Jan 23 20:34 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Jan 23 20:34 |
| *MikeyC has quit ("Page closed") | Jan 23 20:34 | |
| DaemonFC | hehehe | Jan 23 20:34 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@wesbenterprise what makes you think #microsoft is a business? you seem very unfamiliar with their history and methods | Jan 23 20:34 | |
| schestowitz | http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2010/01/transcript-george-stephanopoulos-exclusive-interview-with-president-obama.html | Jan 23 20:34 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: TRANSCRIPT: George Stephanopoulos' Exclusive Interview with President Obama - George's Bottom Line .::. Size~: 111.47 KB | Jan 23 20:34 |
| schestowitz | http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/23/relief-tents-haiti-a.html | Jan 23 20:34 |
| DaemonFC | http://popup.lala.com/popup/432627043558838134 | Jan 23 20:35 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Relief tents, Haiti, and temporary shelter Boing Boing .::. Size~: 41.49 KB | Jan 23 20:35 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Lala Song Player - Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo by Bloodhound Gang .::. Size~: 23.11 KB | Jan 23 20:35 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: you ever lived somewhere else? | Jan 23 20:35 |
| DaemonFC | Ohio | Jan 23 20:36 |
| rnb | ! | Jan 23 20:36 |
| rnb | what part? | Jan 23 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | Dayton | Jan 23 20:36 |
| rnb | oh man | Jan 23 20:36 |
| rnb | certainly East Dayton | Jan 23 20:36 |
| rnb | i lived in dayton for a year | Jan 23 20:36 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] One side-effect of #Apple's small market share is that the other 90% know stuff-all about it and its products, yet still blather about them | Jan 23 20:36 | |
| *_goblin has quit ("Ex-Chat") | Jan 23 20:36 | |
| rnb | what a fkn shithole | Jan 23 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | I went to use the library there and their setup was Netscape 4 on Windows NT 4 | Jan 23 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jan 23 20:36 |
| *_Goblin (n=Goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 23 20:37 | |
| rnb | (i can say that because i'm from ohio, but nobody else can) | Jan 23 20:37 |
| DaemonFC | this was 2002 | Jan 23 20:37 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: well, it's incredible dayton even has a library to begin with | Jan 23 20:37 |
| DaemonFC | they have branches too | Jan 23 20:37 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Jan 23 20:37 |
| rnb | but they have more VFWs | Jan 23 20:37 |
| DaemonFC | and a Golden Corral not far from there I was | Jan 23 20:38 |
| DaemonFC | yes, I know | Jan 23 20:38 |
| rnb | dayton has a huge black population but it is 100% segregated | Jan 23 20:38 |
| DaemonFC | and I interned at the VA hospital | Jan 23 20:38 |
| rnb | white people live in East Dayton | Jan 23 20:38 |
| rnb | black people live in West Dayton | Jan 23 20:38 |
| rnb | and that's that | Jan 23 20:38 |
| DaemonFC | Now you can call me hardcore | Jan 23 20:38 |
| rnb | you know Kettering? | Jan 23 20:39 |
| DaemonFC | Kettering? | Jan 23 20:39 |
| rnb | i saw something in Kettering i've never seen anywhere else | Jan 23 20:39 |
| rnb | it's a "suburb" of Dayton | Jan 23 20:39 |
| DaemonFC | I only lived there for like a bit longer than a year | Jan 23 20:40 |
| rnb | anyway, the Aryan Nation held a protest in Kettering, at their "City Hall" which was a shitty building in a residential neighborhood | Jan 23 20:40 |
| DaemonFC | nice | Jan 23 20:40 |
| rnb | and so the police were there to keep the counter-protesters away from the Aryan Nation people | Jan 23 20:40 |
| DaemonFC | and the police can't break it up | Jan 23 20:40 |
| rnb | (because they had a permit, free speech, etc) | Jan 23 20:40 |
| rnb | anyway | Jan 23 20:40 |
| DaemonFC | oh? no police even watching it | Jan 23 20:40 |
| DaemonFC | this is not going to end well | Jan 23 20:41 |
| rnb | so, Anti-Racist Action from columbus and some of the liberal, super-expensive private colleges came to counter-protest | Jan 23 20:41 |
| rnb | literally, people from the nearby residential neighborhood came out of their houses, some with baseball bats | Jan 23 20:42 |
| rnb | to come and attack the counter-protesters | Jan 23 20:42 |
| rnb | the police didnt do anything | Jan 23 20:42 |
| DaemonFC | not the neo-Nazis? | Jan 23 20:42 |
| *FurnaceBoy (n=FurnaceB@bas1-toronto10-1279398804.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 23 20:42 | |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: site is down from here (BN) | Jan 23 20:42 |
| rnb | just a bunch of rich college kids got their asses kicked by the local neighborhood people | Jan 23 20:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: ola | Jan 23 20:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: see my SW link above? | Jan 23 20:42 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | Jan 23 20:43 |
| rnb | no, the Aryan Nation people were pretty far away, way behind the police line | Jan 23 20:43 |
| DaemonFC | that would normally be funny | Jan 23 20:43 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: bom dia, senhor | Jan 23 20:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: para voce tb | Jan 23 20:43 |
| *FurnaceBoy really gotta learn how to type accents on this linux pc | Jan 23 20:43 | |
| rnb | yeah, well, i've never seen a crowd spontaneously form to brutally attack people counter-protesting the Aryan Nation | Jan 23 20:43 |
| rnb | but that's kettering for you | Jan 23 20:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | anyone else can hit BN site ? http://boycottnovell.com/2010/01/23/gates-subverts-politics-and-huffington/ | Jan 23 20:43 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Arianna Huffington and the Gates Family Make a Killing | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 122.18 KB | Jan 23 20:43 |
| rnb | that movie ... Gummo ... that explains Dayton & surrounding areas better than anything else | Jan 23 20:44 |
| rnb | i cannot hit www.boycottnovell.com | Jan 23 20:45 |
| DaemonFC | Ohio is pretty far right | Jan 23 20:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: what's up with site? | Jan 23 20:45 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: actually, not | Jan 23 20:45 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: especially NE Ohio, it was a Democratic stronghold for years | Jan 23 20:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: are your mirrors outside US? | Jan 23 20:45 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: because of the labor unions | Jan 23 20:45 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: in fact, there is a strong socialist tradition in Ohio | Jan 23 20:45 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: cleveland still has one of the few communist bookstores in the US | Jan 23 20:46 |
| DaemonFC | rnb: The Republicans in Indiana keep pushing to amend the state Constitution with anything on their agenda | Jan 23 20:46 |
| DaemonFC | trying to make it almost impossible to overturn | Jan 23 20:46 |
| rnb | however, since the Democrats screwed their working class base, ohio has become more and more up for grabs | Jan 23 20:46 |
| DaemonFC | it's scary really | Jan 23 20:46 |
| rnb | bill clinton signing NAFTA into law was kind of the last straw for ohio's devotion to the democratic party | Jan 23 20:47 |
| DaemonFC | they're trying to use our constitution for everything that should be a statute | Jan 23 20:47 |
| DaemonFC | they know they're going to get their asses kicked after we redistrict | Jan 23 20:47 |
| DaemonFC | so they're trying to throw everything at the wall right now | Jan 23 20:47 |
| schestowitz | tessier__: ping | Jan 23 20:47 |
| DaemonFC | the congressional districts are going to probably be "un-gerrymandered" and then the elections could go any way | Jan 23 20:48 |
| DaemonFC | which is how it should be anyway | Jan 23 20:48 |
| schestowitz | I restarted apache | Jan 23 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Or maybe tessier__ did something | Jan 23 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | that's probably not good news for all the Democrats in the federal congress though | Jan 23 20:49 |
| *rnb can hit bn.com now | Jan 23 20:49 | |
| DaemonFC | at least not that muslim that got elected to represent Indianapolis | Jan 23 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | he'll definitely be gone by 2012 | Jan 23 20:49 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: sorry, SW link above? | Jan 23 20:49 |
| schestowitz | It was down for 15 minutes | Jan 23 20:50 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: yes | Jan 23 20:50 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: i didnt | Jan 23 20:50 |
| schestowitz | I'll wait for tessier__ who probably has diagnosis | Jan 23 20:50 |
| DaemonFC | he got elected cause his district happens to be majority black muslims living in that part of Indianapolis | Jan 23 20:50 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: what's SW? | Jan 23 20:50 |
| DaemonFC | if they expand his district, he will be voted out | Jan 23 20:50 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/22/tweets_in_space/ | Jan 23 20:50 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: FurnaceBoy | speaking of Socialist Worker. http://socialistworker.org/department/Opinion/John-Pilger | Jan 23 20:50 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Web2.0rhea infects International Space Station • The Register .::. Size~: 24.15 KB | Jan 23 20:50 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: John Pilger | SocialistWorker.org .::. Size~: 26.64 KB | Jan 23 20:50 |
| schestowitz | anti-Chavez? True or false (that he said it)? http://www.boingboing.net/2010/01/22/venezuelan-president.html | Jan 23 20:50 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Venezuelan president: US tectonic weapon caused Haiti quake Boing Boing .::. Size~: 188.01 KB | Jan 23 20:51 |
| schestowitz | This stuff keeps spreading | Jan 23 20:51 |
| schestowitz | Maybe someone told this to Hugo, I don't think he understands tectonic plates | Jan 23 20:51 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: nice.. i try not to be sectarian, but i'm not a big fan of the ISO | Jan 23 20:51 |
| rnb | omg | Jan 23 20:51 |
| rnb | HE DIDNT SAY THAT | Jan 23 20:51 |
| DaemonFC | Andre Carson is is name, and ever since he got elected, he's been trying to steal federal money to "beautify" an area around his mosque | Jan 23 20:51 |
| DaemonFC | what a coincidence | Jan 23 20:51 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: I was pointing out the Pilger column only | Jan 23 20:51 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: at least he's 100% kosher :P | Jan 23 20:52 |
| schestowitz | I wonder if this is true: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9147298/China_slams_Clinton_s_call_for_Internet_freedom | Jan 23 20:52 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: China slams Clinton's call for Internet freedom .::. Size~: 129.36 KB | Jan 23 20:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: yes I read that | Jan 23 20:52 |
| rnb | *one* media outlet in venezuela published a story ABOUT A REPORT OUT OF RUSSIA that speculatd about the "Earthquake Weapon" | Jan 23 20:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: seems plausible yes | Jan 23 20:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: China govt is a sensitive little bitch | Jan 23 20:52 |
| rnb | and even THEY took it off their site | Jan 23 20:52 |
| schestowitz | Heh | Jan 23 20:52 |
| rnb | somehow, that sequence of events became "CHAVEZ CLAIMS US USED EARTHQUAKE RAY AGAINST HAITI" | Jan 23 20:52 |
| schestowitz | But it's good way to daeminse EVIL EVIL devil Huge | Jan 23 20:53 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes. | Jan 23 20:53 |
| schestowitz | He has stuff near his 'tectonics' | Jan 23 20:53 |
| schestowitz | *Hugo | Jan 23 20:53 |
| FurnaceBoy | very convenient talking point to avoid discussing the real ways US is attacking Haiti (and everyone else) | Jan 23 20:53 |
| FurnaceBoy | such exaggerations couldn't play better into the right's hands | Jan 23 20:53 |
| schestowitz | So it's not a true story, but it's a USEFUL story, so they air the distortion, I guess | Jan 23 20:53 |
| rnb | it also drives me crazy when he is referred to as "paranoid about the US" | Jan 23 20:54 |
| FurnaceBoy | like Ahmadinejad (mis)quotes | Jan 23 20:54 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: right | Jan 23 20:54 |
| rnb | of course, the US did back a plan to kidnap him at gunpoint and supported a coup d'etat against him | Jan 23 20:54 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: and it's working , as usual. | Jan 23 20:54 |
| rnb | BUT HEY! chavez is the one who's paranoid | Jan 23 20:54 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: exactly | Jan 23 20:54 |
| schestowitz | See tge comments in BoingBoing | Jan 23 20:54 |
| schestowitz | People in the West hate Hugo | Jan 23 20:54 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: I doubt I would want to | Jan 23 20:54 |
| schestowitz | It's like a bunch of Fox News broadcasters talking about Obama | Jan 23 20:54 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: I stopped following Xeni | Jan 23 20:54 |
| rnb | schestowitz: the people in power are SCARED TO DEATH of hugo | Jan 23 20:55 |
| rnb | schestowitz: as well they should be | Jan 23 20:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: the FUD is effective | Jan 23 20:55 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rqdtZlec0s FOX NEWS- LIES, LIES, LIES --See For Yourself (part 1 of 2) | Jan 23 20:55 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: i know :( | Jan 23 20:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | BoingBoing *should* know better than to spread right wing FUD. | Jan 23 20:55 |
| schestowitz | rnb: he's infectious :-) | Jan 23 20:55 |
| FurnaceBoy | so there's another one this week. | Jan 23 20:55 |
| rnb | that story is on boingboing?! | Jan 23 20:56 |
| FurnaceBoy | --HuffPost --BoingBoing | Jan 23 20:56 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: exactly | Jan 23 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Independence and democracy are OK as long as they are dependent on the rulers of the world and their democracies | Jan 23 20:56 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: Xeni is not that smart. | Jan 23 20:56 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: I followed him for a while | Jan 23 20:56 |
| schestowitz | Xeni... I didn't see enough from him yet | Jan 23 20:56 |
| FurnaceBoy | or rather., he may be smart, but he's confused | Jan 23 20:56 |
| schestowitz | No prior smoking gun though | Jan 23 20:57 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: follow on twitter, you'll see what i mean | Jan 23 20:57 |
| schestowitz | In read BB cause of Cory | Jan 23 20:57 |
| rnb | i dont see it ... i see the HAARP link but it doesnt mention the chavez/earthquake gun story | Jan 23 20:58 |
| rnb | or maybe i'm missing it | Jan 23 20:58 |
| rnb | jon stewart / daily show has also ridiculed chavez | Jan 23 20:58 |
| rnb | that's our "left-wing" for you | Jan 23 20:58 |
| rnb | chavez just kicks ass and says things that every other leader THINKS but is too afraid to say | Jan 23 20:59 |
| rnb | or rather, lacks the support chavez does to be able to say it | Jan 23 20:59 |
| rnb | my favorite chavez attack ever: | Jan 23 21:00 |
| rnb | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYYQT21p7l8 | Jan 23 21:00 |
| rnb | haha, i laugh every time i see that, it never gets old :) | Jan 23 21:00 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: tessier tessier__ site's back | Jan 23 21:02 |
| rnb | this is the original source of that chavez farce: | Jan 23 21:09 |
| rnb | http://www.abc.es/hemeroteca/historico-20-01-2010/abc/Internacional/el-arma-secreta-para-provocar-terremotos_1133182612243.html | Jan 23 21:09 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: El arma secreta para provocar terremotos - Internacional - Internacional - Abc.es .::. Size~: 46.73 KB | Jan 23 21:09 |
| rnb | note that they say "the Government of Venezuela" said this or that | Jan 23 21:09 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Takes a Hit at #Linux with More #FAT Patents; #McKool et al Assist Some More Patent Trolling http://ur1.ca/kix7 | Jan 23 21:09 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft Takes a Hit at Linux with More FAT Patents; John Ward, John Olivo, and McKool Assist Some More Patent Trolling | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 115.5 KB | Jan 23 21:09 |
| rnb | because they have taken a great liberty, which is presuming that an independent, pro-chavez media outlet = government of venezuela = chavez himself | Jan 23 21:10 |
| rnb | and even THAT media outlet only reported on a report that came out of russia about earthquake weapons | Jan 23 21:10 |
| rnb | AND they even removed that story -- fox news had to link to the google cache of it | Jan 23 21:11 |
| FurnaceBoy | http://www.zerohedge.com/article/scandal-albert-edwards-alleges-central-banks-were-complicit-robbing-middle-classes | Jan 23 21:11 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Scandal: Albert Edwards Alleges Central Banks Were Complicit In Robbing The Middle Classes | zero hedge .::. Size~: 314.7 KB | Jan 23 21:11 |
| rnb | -> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,583588,00.html | Jan 23 21:12 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Hugo Chavez Mouthpiece Says U.S. Hit Haiti With 'Earthquake Weapon' - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com .::. Size~: 47.33 KB | Jan 23 21:12 |
| rnb | "The story has since been taken down from the Venezuelan Web site, but a Google cache of the charges remains intact." | Jan 23 21:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | lol | Jan 23 21:13 |
| rnb | "Citing an alleged report from Russia's Northern Fleet, the Venezuelan strongman's state mouthpiece ViVe TV shot out a press release [...]" | Jan 23 21:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | fox - lower than a snake's asshole, or however it goes. | Jan 23 21:13 |
| FurnaceBoy | imagine if Chavez had sent in military to take over the airport, like US did. | Jan 23 21:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | and started turning aid away | Jan 23 21:14 |
| rnb | and their stupid google cache IS expired :P | Jan 23 21:14 |
| rnb | chavez offered immediate aid for katrina | Jan 23 21:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | naturally. and most foreign aid was ignored in that situation | Jan 23 21:14 |
| rnb | and the US wouldnt allow them to do it | Jan 23 21:14 |
| rnb | cuba also offered immediate aid | Jan 23 21:14 |
| FurnaceBoy | they generally refuse foreign aid. | Jan 23 21:15 |
| rnb | they were also denied | Jan 23 21:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes. | Jan 23 21:15 |
| rnb | meanwhile, "brownie" dicked around for how many days? | Jan 23 21:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | would have interfered with their own military invasion of NOLA | Jan 23 21:15 |
| rnb | oh my god | Jan 23 21:15 |
| FurnaceBoy | it was a scandal | Jan 23 21:15 |
| rnb | i saw this obscene report by geraldo riverea | Jan 23 21:15 |
| rnb | *rivera | Jan 23 21:15 |
| rnb | he was in haiti, reporting from the militarized airport | Jan 23 21:15 |
| rnb | apparently he took a "tour" of the city | Jan 23 21:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | ah, they still "embed" reporters. | Jan 23 21:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | nice to know. | Jan 23 21:16 |
| rnb | and while he did, police were responded to people who poking around a demolished citibank | Jan 23 21:16 |
| FurnaceBoy | sorry, "reporters". | Jan 23 21:16 |
| rnb | *responding | Jan 23 21:16 |
| DaemonFC | The Republicans in Texas are trying to get rid of Rick Perry in the primaries | Jan 23 21:17 |
| rnb | anyway, this super-thin, scrawny black guy came into the camera's view and had his hands up, because 3 soldiers were pointing his guns at him | Jan 23 21:17 |
| DaemonFC | he's become too much of an embarassment | Jan 23 21:17 |
| rnb | and geraldo asked his translator to ask him what was going on | Jan 23 21:17 |
| rnb | so the translator did and the guy said that he was walking by, and saw some people around the bank, but that he wasnt stealing anything | Jan 23 21:17 |
| rnb | and geraldo fucking said, "yeah, that's what they all say" | Jan 23 21:17 |
| rnb | and that was the full report. | Jan 23 21:17 |
| DaemonFC | they want a kinder, gentler Texas governor who just hates gays and blacks, not one who claims Texas can secede from the union | Jan 23 21:18 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Jan 23 21:18 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: :( | Jan 23 21:18 |
| rnb | ugh, geraldo had no idea what was going on | Jan 23 21:19 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: We should give Texas to Canada | Jan 23 21:19 |
| rnb | how dare he say that | Jan 23 21:19 |
| DaemonFC | nice counterbalance for you | Jan 23 21:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: what would Geraldo know about the way the underprivileged 99.999% of the world lives? | Jan 23 21:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: especially after such a disaster. what a piece of shit | Jan 23 21:19 |
| rnb | it was just completely obscene, the way he said it was so derisive | Jan 23 21:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | yes. | Jan 23 21:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | worse than obscene | Jan 23 21:19 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: but it's done for a purpose | Jan 23 21:20 |
| rnb | i have to be honest, it sort of choked me up for a second, and then i got angry | Jan 23 21:20 |
| DaemonFC | Geraldo? Does anyone take him seriously after the John Dillinger thing? | Jan 23 21:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: so that the middle class can reinforce their own sense of racial entitlement, and reinforce stereotypes for strategic political reasons; PRECISELY what Katrina was for. | Jan 23 21:20 |
| rnb | for katrina OR haiti or whatever, how dare any of these people talk about "looters" ? | Jan 23 21:20 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: right | Jan 23 21:21 |
| rnb | LOOT AWAY | Jan 23 21:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: it's done very deliberately | Jan 23 21:21 |
| rnb | LOOT ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING | Jan 23 21:21 |
| rnb | i am 100% PRO-LOOTER | Jan 23 21:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: it's a strategic remark to cement politically expedient and racial superiority positions | Jan 23 21:21 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Jan 23 21:21 |
| rnb | so much of the western coverage was about "looters" | Jan 23 21:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: of course. FUD. | Jan 23 21:21 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: absolutely | Jan 23 21:21 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: Did you see them taking anything they needed? | Jan 23 21:21 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: ah, it's to justify invading by military force | Jan 23 21:21 |
| DaemonFC | Food, diapers, water? | Jan 23 21:22 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: it is | Jan 23 21:22 |
| DaemonFC | anything they needed? | Jan 23 21:22 |
| DaemonFC | clothes? | Jan 23 21:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: shut up for once | Jan 23 21:22 |
| DaemonFC | they smashed and grabbed and took advantage of the lawlessness | Jan 23 21:22 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: not only that, but if an area doesnt meet certain security standards, aid was not allowed to be delivered there | Jan 23 21:22 |
| DaemonFC | to steal big screen TVs | Jan 23 21:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: absolute bullshit | Jan 23 21:22 |
| DaemonFC | and computers | Jan 23 21:22 |
| DaemonFC | and bikes | Jan 23 21:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I've heard educated, wealthy americans tell me that crime is "caused by black people". | Jan 23 21:22 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: stick that where the sun don't | Jan 23 21:22 |
| DaemonFC | there was not one of those looters that took anything they needed | Jan 23 21:22 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: LOOT ANYTHING | Jan 23 21:22 |
| DaemonFC | watch the video | Jan 23 21:22 |
| rnb | LOOT STEREOS | Jan 23 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | watch them run off with stereos | Jan 23 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | watch the cops that steal tons of shoes | Jan 23 21:23 |
| rnb | to quote Mr. Ice Cube regarding the rodney king riots: | Jan 23 21:23 |
| rnb | SHOOTERS, LOOTERS, NOW I GOT A LAPTOP COMPUTER | Jan 23 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | rnb: lol | Jan 23 21:23 |
| rnb | end of quote | Jan 23 21:23 |
| rnb | back to me: LOOT EVERYTHING, TAKE IT ALL | Jan 23 21:23 |
| rnb | yes, you need CLOTHES | Jan 23 21:24 |
| rnb | yes, you need FOOD | Jan 23 21:24 |
| rnb | yes, you need MEDICINE | Jan 23 21:24 |
| rnb | but guess what? i'm this cruel, repulsive capitalist system, you also NEED MONEY | Jan 23 21:24 |
| rnb | it is something you NEED for SURVIVAL | Jan 23 21:24 |
| rnb | so, my message to disaster victims: LOOT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN, AS FAST AS YOU CAN | Jan 23 21:24 |
| DaemonFC | Yeah, I would have my shotgun on my back, my pistol in my shoulder holster a big knife in a holster on my belt | Jan 23 21:24 |
| DaemonFC | and I would go to Walmart :) | Jan 23 21:24 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: of course you would | Jan 23 21:25 |
| rnb | and so would everyone else who sits in comfortable tv studios bitching about "looters" | Jan 23 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | *Click Click* Drop it......I saw it first | Jan 23 21:25 |
| rnb | ok, sorry, rant over. | Jan 23 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jan 23 21:25 |
| rnb | oops, "in this...", not "i'm this..." | Jan 23 21:26 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: would you take anything you don't NEED? | Jan 23 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, the shotgun might be an effective comeback to the black people with Tec-9's | Jan 23 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | to return fire with that is | Jan 23 21:27 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: you know they had blackwater thugs *deputized* during katrina? | Jan 23 21:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: in your case, i hope not. | Jan 23 21:27 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: not surprised | Jan 23 21:27 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: it's true.. also, the national guard was stationed on a bridge that permitted easy exit from the disaster zone | Jan 23 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: I'd get a pallet and make one of the other looters pull it around | Jan 23 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | grabbing everything I needed/wanted | Jan 23 21:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: your credibility is gone now. | Jan 23 21:28 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: they literally turned people away at gunpoint, trapping them in the disaster area | Jan 23 21:28 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: if you havent seen Spike Lee's movie about Katrina, i highly recommend it | Jan 23 21:28 |
| DaemonFC | I'd have some light body armor on | Jan 23 21:28 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jan 23 21:28 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: it is a great work of art | Jan 23 21:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: I didn't realise there was a truthful account of Katrina in the mainstream | Jan 23 21:28 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: that's quite.. incendiary isn't it? | Jan 23 21:29 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: definitely check out the spike lee movie, it's so good | Jan 23 21:29 |
| rnb | what's incendiary? | Jan 23 21:29 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: My first stop would be to the car dealership, to get an F-450 to haul my take | Jan 23 21:29 |
| rnb | the movie? | Jan 23 21:29 |
| DaemonFC | FurnaceBoy: Actually, a better idea....... | Jan 23 21:30 |
| DaemonFC | shoot the lock off the back receiving door | Jan 23 21:30 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: why do you think your fantasies interest us... | Jan 23 21:30 |
| DaemonFC | take groceries and stuff from there | Jan 23 21:31 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: try to stick to reality | Jan 23 21:31 |
| Omar87 | _Goblin: ping | Jan 23 21:31 |
| DaemonFC | the merchandise in the front of the store should slow them down | Jan 23 21:31 |
| DaemonFC | like locusts | Jan 23 21:31 |
| *FurnaceBoy gives up | Jan 23 21:32 | |
| rnb | it's called "When the Levees Broke", produced by HBO | Jan 23 21:32 |
| rnb | A Requiem in Four Acts | Jan 23 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | run up to the entrances from the front of the store and pull the security screens shut | Jan 23 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | then you can take what you want, that should hold them for a while | Jan 23 21:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: write a fantasy book, get it out of your system. | Jan 23 21:34 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: the rest of us will worry about what happens in the real world | Jan 23 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | mmhm | Jan 23 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | it's like Katrina is Dawn of the Dead but they're not zombies | Jan 23 21:35 |
| DaemonFC | they just come to where they liked to shop | Jan 23 21:35 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jan 23 21:35 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: you're honestly AGAINST looting in a situation like that? | Jan 23 21:35 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: you think it's some horrible thing to do, given the circumstances? | Jan 23 21:36 |
| DaemonFC | rnb: No, I'm FOR getting everything I want before law is restored | Jan 23 21:36 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Jan 23 21:36 |
| rnb | seriously, i'm curious | Jan 23 21:36 |
| rnb | you think that protecting businesses with armed thugs is a higher priority than getting humanitarian aid to people? | Jan 23 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | I just gave you my answer, I'd take everything I could get which couldn't be traced, and get home with it | Jan 23 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | before law was restored | Jan 23 21:37 |
| rnb | see? DaemonFC isnt inhuman, FurnaceBoy | Jan 23 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | by that time the system would be too swamped to even try to figure out what I did | Jan 23 21:37 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: but i guess you know him better than me :) | Jan 23 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | of course I'm a humanitarian | Jan 23 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | I am human and I strongly support my survival | Jan 23 21:38 |
| rnb | the big "looting scene" i saw from haiti was a group of 4 guys standing on top of a building, throwing stuff down to a crowd of people below | Jan 23 21:39 |
| rnb | and the police come and break it all up | Jan 23 21:39 |
| DaemonFC | if a disaster happened, and someone was going to make it out alive and well and with lots of bling, I would try to make sure it was me | Jan 23 21:39 |
| rnb | i didnt really see any actual footage of anything else | Jan 23 21:39 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: ... and anyone you could help along the way, right? | Jan 23 21:40 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Jan 23 21:40 |
| DaemonFC | rnb: There's actually a National Guard armory near here that's barely even staffed | Jan 23 21:40 |
| rnb | spike lee's movie tells the story of this black guy and his brother who were trying to get from one place to another | Jan 23 21:40 |
| DaemonFC | I'd probably go trade up on my armament before rolling out | Jan 23 21:40 |
| rnb | and because of all the looting stories on the TV, apparently some white guy holed up in his house blasted him in the back with a shotgun | Jan 23 21:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | interesting stats. 47% of toronto's population born outside canada. | Jan 23 21:41 |
| rnb | assuming that he was a "looter" | Jan 23 21:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | actually 50%; 47% are part of "visible minorities" | Jan 23 21:41 |
| DaemonFC | I would loot the Guard armory first if possible | Jan 23 21:41 |
| DaemonFC | I would need someone on the .50 caliber machine gun on back | Jan 23 21:41 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: your fantasies really aren't of interest to me. anyone else? | Jan 23 21:41 |
| DaemonFC | rnb: Come with me if you want to live | Jan 23 21:42 |
| *FurnaceBoy fingers /ignore | Jan 23 21:42 | |
| DaemonFC | :P | Jan 23 21:42 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: the details are getting old | Jan 23 21:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: it's pure self-indulgence. he gets off on these thoughts. | Jan 23 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | it's like a bad movie whenever a disaster happens | Jan 23 21:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: dreaming about social collapse | Jan 23 21:42 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: no wonder his country *is* collapsing | Jan 23 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | you know exactly what's going to happen | Jan 23 21:42 |
| rnb | and, really, you would probably be crying your eyes out, scared to death, on your roof with a sign that says "COME AND HELP ME PLEASE" | Jan 23 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | maybe not | Jan 23 21:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: if the military saw a weapon on him, he'd be deader than JFK. | Jan 23 21:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: he doesn't gete it | Jan 23 21:43 |
| DaemonFC | maybe it plays out like Jericho instead | Jan 23 21:43 |
| FurnaceBoy | get * | Jan 23 21:43 |
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| rnb | FurnaceBoy: yes, his story doesnt include the blackwater sniper taking his head off | Jan 23 21:44 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: I am not sure if you understood what happened in Katrina. civilians were shot at random. You'd be one of them. if you fired a weapon , or even visibly carried one, you'd likely be one of the first shot summarily | Jan 23 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | now if that was the case I'd be about 80 miles north of where the closest bomb went off | Jan 23 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | maybe as much as 100 if it went off in the center of Indianapolis | Jan 23 21:44 |
| rnb | that's why i say that you'd more than likely be scared to death and panicking | Jan 23 21:44 |
| DaemonFC | survival prospects are good | Jan 23 21:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: they're better armed than you, and their brief is to take out any civilian deemed threatening. being armed or using a weapon qualifies you for execution. | Jan 23 21:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: that is your country, now. | Jan 23 21:45 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: what's the closest that you've ever been to a situation like that, out of curiousity? | Jan 23 21:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: go read the actual accounts | Jan 23 21:45 |
| DaemonFC | where are the people they gunned down? | Jan 23 21:45 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: buried | Jan 23 21:45 |
| DaemonFC | you mean the ones that were shooting at the rescue workers? | Jan 23 21:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: go do some reading. you talk more than you read. | Jan 23 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | they got away | Jan 23 21:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you're ridiculously naive | Jan 23 21:46 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: you dont believe what he's saying?! | Jan 23 21:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you have no grasp of events | Jan 23 21:46 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: it's very well documented | Jan 23 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | the rescue workers fell back because those idiots were shooting at them | Jan 23 21:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you refuse to let in facts that contradict your fantasies | Jan 23 21:46 |
| rnb | oh come on, are you kidding? | Jan 23 21:46 |
| DaemonFC | then they complain that rescue was proceeding slowly | Jan 23 21:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: of how you would 'like' things to have happened. | Jan 23 21:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: same in Haiti | Jan 23 21:46 |
| rnb | WTF! | Jan 23 21:46 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: this limits how far you are able to grasp reality. | Jan 23 21:46 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: tell me you arent serious | Jan 23 21:46 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: because i'm about to lose all respect for you | Jan 23 21:47 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: sorry, he really believes these fantasies | Jan 23 21:47 |
| DaemonFC | rnb: I am, the rescue workers were shot at by armed thugs | Jan 23 21:47 |
| DaemonFC | they couldn't get in because too many people were taking shots at them | Jan 23 21:47 |
| rnb | are you insane? | Jan 23 21:47 |
| DaemonFC | that's at least part of the reason help was slow to arrive | Jan 23 21:47 |
| rnb | WHAT? | Jan 23 21:47 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: meet your typical brainwashed Yank | Jan 23 21:47 |
| DaemonFC | thugs shooting at the rescue workers, so they come back with the National Guard to protect them | Jan 23 21:48 |
| DaemonFC | and they shot at the National guard too | Jan 23 21:48 |
| rnb | oh my god, that is so ridiculously absurd | Jan 23 21:48 |
| DaemonFC | it's like how stupid are these people? | Jan 23 21:48 |
| rnb | who the hell would shoot at an aid worker coming to save them? | Jan 23 21:48 |
| DaemonFC | I'd say the Guard showed considerable restraint in not firing back | Jan 23 21:49 |
| rnb | ??????? | Jan 23 21:49 |
| rnb | where the FUCK did you get the idea that this happened? | Jan 23 21:49 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you have no clue. do some research if you want to discuss it | Jan 23 21:49 |
| DaemonFC | rnb: The people who were victimizing and raping and pillaging the other survivors | Jan 23 21:49 |
| DaemonFC | they don't want law restored | Jan 23 21:49 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: in your head, yes. | Jan 23 21:49 |
| rnb | i repeat: where the FUCK did you get the idea that this happened? | Jan 23 21:50 |
| DaemonFC | they were interviewing one of the rescue workers on TV | Jan 23 21:50 |
| rnb | url. | Jan 23 21:50 |
| DaemonFC | before the liberals stepped in and covered it up | Jan 23 21:50 |
| DaemonFC | went back to "the government is bad, mmmmk" | Jan 23 21:50 |
| rnb | they DID have a lot of false reports like that, for instance the famous police officer who was spreading the false story about "babies being raped" | Jan 23 21:51 |
| rnb | spike lee's movie goes into this in great depth | Jan 23 21:51 |
| rnb | you can imagine the gossip/drama mill that would be happening in a situation like that | Jan 23 21:51 |
| DaemonFC | spike lee is racist | Jan 23 21:51 |
| DaemonFC | spike lee is a racist piece of shit | Jan 23 21:52 |
| rnb | one guy was told that his daughter was being raped in the hotel they were holed up in | Jan 23 21:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: this reminds me of what happened in Australia, with the famous "children overboard" story | Jan 23 21:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: before Howard was re-elected | Jan 23 21:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: there was a boat of refugees | Jan 23 21:52 |
| DaemonFC | he makes things up so it looks like every white person is out to kill black people | Jan 23 21:52 |
| rnb | and he freaked out and ran back to the hotel, and nothing at all had happened there | Jan 23 21:52 |
| DaemonFC | he's a pusswy | Jan 23 21:52 |
| DaemonFC | *pussy | Jan 23 21:52 |
| rnb | oh, DaemonFC. | Jan 23 21:52 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Some stunning pictures of rarely-seen sealife: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8426132.stm | Jan 23 21:52 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 97.51 KB | Jan 23 21:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: the government invented and promulgated a story that the asylum seekers on the boat were throwing children overboard. | Jan 23 21:52 |
| rnb | i thought you were alright. | Jan 23 21:52 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: Howard used this as an election talking point, even though it was proved to be a complete fabrication. | Jan 23 21:53 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: he was re-elected. and this was after Abu Ghraib too. | Jan 23 21:53 |
| rnb | you're a fucking clueless cunt | Jan 23 21:53 |
| DaemonFC | according to Spike Lee, all white people are bad | Jan 23 21:53 |
| DaemonFC | black people are always the victim | Jan 23 21:53 |
| DaemonFC | waaaa, waaaaaa, not enough welfare | Jan 23 21:53 |
| rnb | that's bullshit | Jan 23 21:53 |
| rnb | wow. | Jan 23 21:54 |
| schestowitz | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/01/some-authors-still-split-on-amazons-70-royalty-offer.arsr | Jan 23 21:54 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 404 Not Found .::. Size~: 0 KB | Jan 23 21:54 |
| DaemonFC | call the waaaaaaaaaaambulance1 | Jan 23 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Watch the language BTW | Jan 23 21:54 |
| schestowitz | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/01/some-authors-still-split-on-amazons-70-royalty-offer.ars | Jan 23 21:54 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Amazon hikes Kindle royalties to 70%, with a catch .::. Size~: 30.64 KB | Jan 23 21:54 |
| schestowitz | Swindle. | Jan 23 21:54 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: you have the worldview of an 8 year old whose been kept in a box with TV all his life | Jan 23 21:54 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: i didnt realize why FurnaceBoy was always on your case | Jan 23 21:55 |
| *FurnaceBoy goes back to work | Jan 23 21:55 | |
| DaemonFC | Spike Lee even complained that Larry Bird is a decent basketball player | Jan 23 21:55 |
| DaemonFC | that's just petty | Jan 23 21:55 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: have you ever been outside of your mom's basement? | Jan 23 21:56 |
| DaemonFC | Then he complained that Clint Eastwood didn't rewrite history to make one of the marines raising hte flag on Iwo Jima a black man | Jan 23 21:57 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: apparently most ppl here have him on /ignore, but I don't intend to do that. i never /ignored anyone before. | Jan 23 21:57 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: eh, i was surprised for a second because so far, he's seemed alright to me | Jan 23 21:57 |
| DaemonFC | Then Spike Lee tried suing SPike TV to get money for nothing | Jan 23 21:58 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: people like him are a dime a dozen in the US | Jan 23 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | *Spike TV | Jan 23 21:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: I know | Jan 23 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | Spike Lee is worthless | Jan 23 21:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: it's the mainstream view | Jan 23 21:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb: because it's comfortable | Jan 23 21:58 |
| rnb | FurnaceBoy: well, Spike Lee being worthless isnt the mainstream view | Jan 23 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | no, I don't have problems with calling a black guy a racist | Jan 23 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | when he so obviously is | Jan 23 21:58 |
| rnb | Spike Lee is a cinematic genius who is critically acclaimed | Jan 23 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | by liberals | Jan 23 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | extreme liberals | Jan 23 21:58 |
| DaemonFC | the liberals that still want me to pay reparations from 160 years ago | Jan 23 21:59 |
| DaemonFC | those are the douches that like Spike Lee | Jan 23 21:59 |
| DaemonFC | they just never let it go, never stop complaining, never stop vilifying me for being white | Jan 23 22:00 |
| DaemonFC | always wanting me to pay more taxes to give them free (as in open and costs nothing) seats in college | Jan 23 22:00 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: i doubt it's because your white. it really is the content of your character, to paraphrase Dr King | Jan 23 22:00 |
| DaemonFC | so they can learn even more about why I am the devil | Jan 23 22:00 |
| rnb | oh, DaemonFC ... i'm so disappointed. | Jan 23 22:01 |
| rnb | i thought you were my steel belt paisan | Jan 23 22:01 |
| DaemonFC | rnb: I'm not a skinhead, I am not a slave keeper, I don't even care outside of the fact that mainstream black culture vilifies me | Jan 23 22:01 |
| DaemonFC | they encourage racism against white people, all white people, no exception | Jan 23 22:02 |
| rnb | nah, you're just ignorant | Jan 23 22:02 |
| DaemonFC | they have become exactly what they hate | Jan 23 22:02 |
| DaemonFC | racists | Jan 23 22:02 |
| rnb | -so- ignorant that it isnt even worth discussing it with you | Jan 23 22:02 |
| DaemonFC | I pity that they stoop so low as to try to pin all their personal failings on white people | Jan 23 22:02 |
| rnb | these opinions arent unique or clever, they're just repeats of what you hear on third-rate AM radio shows | Jan 23 22:03 |
| DaemonFC | they are ignorant, it is easy to blame white people as aopposed to becoming educated or solving your own problems | Jan 23 22:03 |
| DaemonFC | they've become this pile of mush that can only say "They did it!!!!" | Jan 23 22:03 |
| rnb | eh, like i say, it's not even worth discussing it with you | Jan 23 22:03 |
| DaemonFC | no | Jan 23 22:04 |
| DaemonFC | you hear this crap from Spike Lee and Al Sharpton | Jan 23 22:04 |
| FurnaceBoy | rnb++ | Jan 23 22:04 |
| FurnaceBoy | DaemonFC: go do something useful | Jan 23 22:04 |
| DaemonFC | it won't ever stop as long as they keep reopening the wound with patent nonsense and outright lies | Jan 23 22:04 |
| rnb | DaemonFC: you cant bait me... | Jan 23 22:04 |
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| rnb | DaemonFC: you lost me | Jan 23 22:05 |
| DaemonFC | Spike Lee is the black version of Richard Butler | Jan 23 22:05 |
| DaemonFC | you know, the man who started Aryan Nations with racially motives lies about black people? | Jan 23 22:06 |
| DaemonFC | they're both hatemongers, the only difference is their skin color | Jan 23 22:06 |
| DaemonFC | *motivated | Jan 23 22:06 |
| schestowitz | This is a good article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratagem_%28deception%29 | Jan 23 22:14 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Confidence trick - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 88.33 KB | Jan 23 22:14 |
| DaemonFC | the fact that someone in the UK can break into a person's home, tie up their family, and threaten them with a weapon, and have the law side with them when the homeowner kicks the guys ass and saves his family is......disturbing | Jan 23 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | and goes to show what liberals do to government | Jan 23 22:15 |
| DaemonFC | I guarantee you that it's a liberal that made sure a person cannot defend themselves, their family, and their home there | Jan 23 22:16 |
| DaemonFC | in the USA, if you break into someone's home, you're just asking for whatever happens to you | Jan 23 22:17 |
| DaemonFC | as it should be | Jan 23 22:17 |
| DaemonFC | I'm sure there's also a lot more break-ins in the UK as the law there does little to nothing about it and lists the burglar as the homeowner's victim | Jan 23 22:18 |
| DaemonFC | that's just so perverted that the day it became like that here I would gladly renounce my citizenship and go live somewhere this wasn't allowed to occur | Jan 23 22:18 |
| _Goblin | No thats a distorted view daemonfc | Jan 23 22:19 |
| DaemonFC | when the law punishes crime, crime still happens | Jan 23 22:19 |
| _Goblin | thats not quite right... | Jan 23 22:20 |
| _Goblin | in the uk | Jan 23 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | when the law does nothing to discourage crime, it flourishes | Jan 23 22:20 |
| *Eruaran has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jan 23 22:20 | |
| _Goblin | what it says is "You are responsible for persons on your property either lawfully or not" | Jan 23 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | which is unacceptable | Jan 23 22:20 |
| _Goblin | and if you sit and think about it, that makes sense. | Jan 23 22:20 |
| _Goblin | really? | Jan 23 22:20 |
| DaemonFC | I am not responsible for persons on my property illegally | Jan 23 22:20 |
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| _Goblin | ok daemon, say you came to my house.... | Jan 23 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | they are taking their risk in invading my home | Jan 23 22:21 |
| _Goblin | and due to my neglegence ended up crippling yourself....no comeback? | Jan 23 22:21 |
| DaemonFC | _Goblin: So if the mail carrier falls and breaks his arm on your property, they can hold you liable there? | Jan 23 22:21 |
| _Goblin | yep | Jan 23 22:21 |
| _Goblin | and the lawfully or not part stops people saying "he wasn't on my property lawfully" | Jan 23 22:22 |
| DaemonFC | that's funny | Jan 23 22:22 |
| _Goblin | so if you go into wallmart or similar in the UK and injure yourself, the manager cannot claim you were there unlawfully. | Jan 23 22:22 |
| _Goblin | as a way to avoid responsibility | Jan 23 22:22 |
| _Goblin | as I repeatedly say to you, umbrella rules like the ones you have don#t work in the real world....things are more complicated than your black and white view | Jan 23 22:23 |
| DaemonFC | my landlord is responsible if I am injured on his property *if* a court finds that the accident was caused by something he did, and that's because I obviously have the right to be here | Jan 23 22:23 |
| _Goblin | yes, but again you are confused... | Jan 23 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | so if the stairs outside collapse from lack of maintenance, I sue | Jan 23 22:24 |
| _Goblin | if US land law is like UK, then you have "constructive posession of the property" even if its owned by a landlord. | Jan 23 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | if I slip after getting out of the shower, it's my problem | Jan 23 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | only the part I'm renting | Jan 23 22:24 |
| _Goblin | what if the landlord slips in the property due to your neglegence (not reporting a fault on his property) | Jan 23 22:24 |
| DaemonFC | so if the stairs outside collapse under me, I sue | Jan 23 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | in my apartment? | Jan 23 22:25 |
| *Omar87 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Jan 23 22:25 | |
| DaemonFC | that would go on my renter's insurance if he sued | Jan 23 22:25 |
| _Goblin | daemonFC you are now changing the goal posts. | Jan 23 22:25 |
| _Goblin | we were talking burglars | Jan 23 22:25 |
| _Goblin | and now you are moving into civil law | Jan 23 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | right, a burglar has no right to be in your house | Jan 23 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | period | Jan 23 22:26 |
| _Goblin | true... | Jan 23 22:26 |
| _Goblin | they are there unlawfully | Jan 23 22:26 |
| _Goblin | but you are still responsible | Jan 23 22:26 |
| MinceR | (animated) http://www.duelinganalogs.com/comics/2009-03-23.gif | Jan 23 22:26 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/gif type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Jan 23 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | I also have a right to defend myself if I believe the burglar will injure or kill me | Jan 23 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | with deadly force | Jan 23 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | so I can likely shoot him in the head and not commit a crime | Jan 23 22:26 |
| DaemonFC | obviously if you shoot someone in the back........ | Jan 23 22:27 |
| DaemonFC | so get his attention first so he'll turn around | Jan 23 22:27 |
| _Goblin | daemonFC laws are different here...I thought you were talking UK...now youve changed back to US... | Jan 23 22:28 |
| _Goblin | and again you are wrong. | Jan 23 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | well, in the UK, not having that right to defend yourself is a perversion | Jan 23 22:28 |
| _Goblin | YOU COULD kill a burglar in the UK, as long as you could prove the force used was proportional in the circumstances. | Jan 23 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | that man should not have spent 1 second in jail | Jan 23 22:29 |
| _Goblin | as I say daemonFC have a clue before you try to argue....UK law states you can use reasonable force. | Jan 23 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | family held hostage, man threatens to kill them | Jan 23 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | I'd say whatever he did was proportional to that | Jan 23 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | I would never, as a juror, vote to convict that man | Jan 23 22:29 |
| _Goblin | thats you, its a courts decision. | Jan 23 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, what kind of stupid jury does this? | Jan 23 22:30 |
| _Goblin | does what? | Jan 23 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | convicts a man protecting his family | Jan 23 22:30 |
| _Goblin | impossible to answer and impossible for you to comment on.... | Jan 23 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | they must have hand picked a jury of liberals or something | Jan 23 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | here, even if I was the only dissenting juror, I'd keep voting not guilty and at least give the man a mistrial | Jan 23 22:31 |
| _Goblin | yes daemonFC....we are not going back into daemonFC world again..? I had enough listening to your Willy Wonker world the other day. | Jan 23 22:31 |
| DaemonFC | so that he maybe can try his luck again and not get 12 morons | Jan 23 22:31 |
| _Goblin | DaemonFC I often wonder if maybe you are existing in more than one universe at the same time....your distorted view of the world and incorrect assumption tends to suggest you are.... | Jan 23 22:33 |
| _Goblin | like when you were for letting people in the 3rd world die one day and then anti abortion the next.....pro and anti life at the same time? | Jan 23 22:34 |
| DaemonFC | not really a conflicting point of view if you think about it | Jan 23 22:36 |
| DaemonFC | liberals have just as conflicting a viewpoint if you want to look at it | Jan 23 22:36 |
| _Goblin | Id rather not think about it thanks.... | Jan 23 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | liberals want abortion to cap and otherwise successful population by murdering babies | Jan 23 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | while artificially propping up a failed population from naturally limiting itself | Jan 23 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jan 23 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | brb, time to go get dinner | Jan 23 22:38 |
| _Goblin | daemonFC: you really don't consider you point of view properly do you? | Jan 23 22:38 |
| _Goblin | Probably for the best. | Jan 23 22:38 |
| _Goblin | I think you need more vitamin C in your diet. | Jan 23 22:38 |
| _Goblin | and possibly more iron. | Jan 23 22:38 |
| _Goblin | @Everyone else: DaemonFC acts like this due to a zinc deficiency in my "medical" opinion..... ;) | Jan 23 22:39 |
| _Goblin | because he's a complete t*sser | Jan 23 22:39 |
| rnb | i didnt understand why people were so mean to him all the time | Jan 23 22:40 |
| rnb | until today | Jan 23 22:40 |
| _Goblin | and Im sorry, I had my angry head on there... | Jan 23 22:40 |
| rnb | i lost all respect for him today | Jan 23 22:40 |
| _Goblin | I had him banned for a few months because he made racist comments. | Jan 23 22:40 |
| _Goblin | sorry ignored. | Jan 23 22:40 |
| rnb | theres nothing to gain from a conversation with someone who is stupid enough to think what he thinks | Jan 23 22:41 |
| _Goblin | and also he claimed that people in the 3rd world were worthless and should be left to die. | Jan 23 22:41 |
| rnb | he claimed that the reason aid didnt get to katrina victims is because of all the thugs shooting at people coming to save them from the flood | Jan 23 22:41 |
| rnb | because they wanted to keep the state of lawlessness going, even though everyone was desperate to get aid, thugs included | Jan 23 22:42 |
| rnb | and then he went on a rant about how spike lee is racist and how oppressed he is by black people | Jan 23 22:43 |
| rnb | being born & raised where he lives, i know exactly the kind of person | Jan 23 22:43 |
| rnb | its too bad | Jan 23 22:43 |
| rnb | i thought he was alright | Jan 23 22:43 |
| rnb | anyway, not worth talking about | Jan 23 22:44 |
| _Goblin | sorry back...had was ordered on a chore by "She who must be obey'd" | Jan 23 22:46 |
| rnb | heheheh | Jan 23 22:46 |
| _Goblin | "you still haven't taken the plastic out" | Jan 23 22:46 |
| _Goblin | (meaning re-cycling) | Jan 23 22:46 |
| rnb | i like having conversations on irc, i'm glad i found this channel | Jan 23 22:46 |
| _Goblin | its a decent channel.... | Jan 23 22:47 |
| rnb | it's hard to find a good channel that fits you | Jan 23 22:47 |
| _Goblin | its also nice that there are so many diverse views.... | Jan 23 22:47 |
| cubezzz | you really enjoy it? :) | Jan 23 22:47 |
| rnb | yeah, it's pretty good | Jan 23 22:47 |
| _Goblin | although people like to suggest its a BN club | Jan 23 22:47 |
| rnb | cubezzz: me? | Jan 23 22:47 |
| cubezzz | it's arguements R us a lot of the time | Jan 23 22:47 |
| _Goblin | for me its the only channel I have ever stayed in for longer than a month.... | Jan 23 22:48 |
| rnb | well.. sometimes irc arguments can degenerate into uselessness | Jan 23 22:48 |
| _Goblin | I think Ive been around here for about a year.... | Jan 23 22:48 |
| _Goblin | maybe a little more. | Jan 23 22:48 |
| rnb | but i like talking about things and bouncing my ideas off of other people's ideas | Jan 23 22:48 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: yes, I have a post about it coming | Jan 23 22:48 |
| rnb | the art of conversation is dying out | Jan 23 22:48 |
| _Goblin | true. | Jan 23 22:49 |
| cubezzz | I'm surprised it's not boycott Microsoft, but there you go | Jan 23 22:49 |
| schestowitz | http://www.pcworld.com/article/187512/The_First_Tweet_From_Space_and_Other_Twitter_Firsts.html?tk=rss_news | Jan 23 22:49 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: The First Tweet From Space and Other Twitter Firsts - PC World .::. Size~: 79.76 KB | Jan 23 22:49 |
| rnb | cubezzz: well, it is that too, right? | Jan 23 22:49 |
| _Goblin | I suppose most of us do boycott microsoft in that we don't use any of their software. | Jan 23 22:49 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: Microsoft is a subsidiary of Novell | Jan 23 22:49 |
| cubezzz | yeah, for me it is | Jan 23 22:49 |
| schestowitz | I know cause SUSE people insisted | Jan 23 22:49 |
| rnb | the only thing i dont like is the public logging | Jan 23 22:49 |
| schestowitz | They told me Microsoft sold out to Novell | Jan 23 22:50 |
| cubezzz | don't you mean Novell sold out to Microsoft? | Jan 23 22:50 |
| schestowitz | They signed a patent deal cause Novell was so so so powerful with SUSE (sheed! There's no Red Hat and IBM) | Jan 23 22:50 |
| schestowitz | No, no.. | Jan 23 22:50 |
| rnb | yeah, i thought that was the point.. everyone hates m$ but novell actually was fooling people into thinking they were a major corporation that was going to support free software | Jan 23 22:50 |
| rnb | so, in a way, they are actually worse | Jan 23 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Novell has got Pearly and MonkeyBoy by the b* | Jan 23 22:50 |
| _Goblin | Roy, have you seen the BBC's footage of creatures at 10000ft under the ocean....deepest ever footage apparently. | Jan 23 22:50 |
| schestowitz | Argues OpenSUSE/Novell apologists | Jan 23 22:51 |
| cubezzz | rnb, but if you look through the man pages you'll see some Novell contributions | Jan 23 22:51 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: I tweeted it | Jan 23 22:51 |
| schestowitz | Did you not see? | Jan 23 22:51 |
| cubezzz | so they really did support Linux after a fashion | Jan 23 22:51 |
| _Goblin | lol... | Jan 23 22:51 |
| _Goblin | thats probably why Ive got it on my other screen! | Jan 23 22:51 |
| cubezzz | not that I trust Novell mind you | Jan 23 22:51 |
| _Goblin | didn't notice the tweeter! | Jan 23 22:51 |
| schestowitz | How do these creature live without sun and so much pressure? | Jan 23 22:51 |
| _Goblin | probably much like MS employees | Jan 23 22:51 |
| *Balrog_ (n=Balrog@pool-74-109-66-203.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 23 22:51 | |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: I guess | Jan 23 22:52 |
| cubezzz | Microsoft employees aren't attracted to the Sun | Jan 23 22:52 |
| schestowitz | It gets sold in Seattle at winter timw | Jan 23 22:52 |
| _Goblin | that was good wasnt it? Im sharp tonight! | Jan 23 22:52 |
| cubezzz | they are attracted to $$$$ :) | Jan 23 22:52 |
| _Goblin | there's certainly alot of pressure at the moment. | Jan 23 22:52 |
| schestowitz | And the crazy managers are high pressure... pumping bullets | Jan 23 22:52 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: many comes from poor background | Jan 23 22:53 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft does not pay them well | Jan 23 22:53 |
| _Goblin | dont say "bullets" we'll have another DaemonFC rant again! | Jan 23 22:53 |
| cubezzz | noooOOooooes | Jan 23 22:53 |
| cubezzz | anything but that | Jan 23 22:53 |
| schestowitz | They are overworked and aspiring to be like Uber-Criminal | Jan 23 22:53 |
| schestowitz | Cpitalisation intended | Jan 23 22:53 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: yes, DaemonFOX brought guns into the channel | Jan 23 22:53 |
| _Goblin | actually there is a striking resembalance between Ballmer and a Snail Fish....... | Jan 23 22:54 |
| rnb | ok, well, i need to work now | Jan 23 22:54 |
| schestowitz | He must be caressing his pistol at night..... "ma precious....." | Jan 23 22:54 |
| _Goblin | as I said...he has a zinc deficiency. | Jan 23 22:54 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: maybe | Jan 23 22:55 |
| rnb | my advice is that DaemonFC also likes attention, even negative attention | Jan 23 22:55 |
| _Goblin | and I hope you understand what I mean... | Jan 23 22:55 |
| schestowitz | But he's the smaller criminal | Jan 23 22:55 |
| schestowitz | The bigger one is not laundering his name with PR | Jan 23 22:55 |
| schestowitz | *now | Jan 23 22:55 |
| schestowitz | rnb: yes, it was noticed before | Jan 23 22:55 |
| schestowitz | Inflammatory writings are trolling | Jan 23 22:55 |
| schestowitz | http://www.pcworld.com/article/187525/ciscos_mccool_sees_growing_datacenter_role.html?tk=rss_news | Jan 23 22:56 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Cisco's McCool Sees Growing Data-center Role - PC World .::. Size~: 75.7 KB | Jan 23 22:56 |
| rnb | schestowitz: yeah | Jan 23 22:56 |
| schestowitz | bad name.... McCool.. like McKool the trolls attorney | Jan 23 22:56 |
| schestowitz | tessier__: are you there? | Jan 23 22:57 |
| schestowitz | rnb: he has always been like this | Jan 23 22:57 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/01/irc-boycottnovell-freenode-march-31st-2009-part-1/ | Jan 23 22:59 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 31st, 2009 Part 1 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 306.37 KB | Jan 23 22:59 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Even the pigeons are with the Mafia. http://bit.ly/8wFIC0 HT @picturecool | Jan 23 23:00 | |
| schestowitz | Looks like a dude with lipstick: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/personal/01/21/tf.outsource.your.lovelife/index.html | Jan 23 23:00 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Outsource love life to virtual assistant? - CNN.com .::. Size~: 48.07 KB | Jan 23 23:00 |
| _Goblin | anyone here a fedora 12 user? | Jan 23 23:01 |
| schestowitz | http://media.cbronline.com/news/google_q4_revenues_up_17_to_667bn_220110 | Jan 23 23:02 |
| schestowitz | Publishers hate Google sometimes | Jan 23 23:02 |
| schestowitz | Google is a money Hoover for some things | Jan 23 23:02 |
| *Balrog has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) | Jan 23 23:08 | |
| *Balrog_ is now known as Balrog | Jan 23 23:08 | |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20100120/2326407852.shtml | Jan 23 23:08 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Yet Another Study Shows Txting Improves Kids' Spelling | Techdirt .::. Size~: 38.89 KB | Jan 23 23:09 |
| schestowitz | "While it still seems like the common belief is that "txt spk" and other sorts of abbreviated elements of the English language harm kids' ability to write properly, we've seen study after study after study after study after study after study has found exactly the opposite. " | Jan 23 23:09 |
| *DaemonFC has quit ("Leaving.") | Jan 23 23:10 | |
| _Goblin | txt speak is like the assembly language of our language.... | Jan 23 23:10 |
| *DaemonFC (n=Ryan@c-69-245-224-113.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Jan 23 23:17 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Leave Ann Coulter ALOOOOOOOOONE!!!!! | Jan 23 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | (5:58:41 PM) schestowitz: Looks like a dude with lipstick: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/personal/01/21/tf.outsource.your.lovelife/index.html | Jan 23 23:17 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Outsource love life to virtual assistant? - CNN.com .::. Size~: 48.07 KB | Jan 23 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | you know, I don't agree with a lot of what Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter, or all of them say, but.....there was a time when they made more sense | Jan 23 23:19 |
| DaemonFC | not a lot more, just more than they do now | Jan 23 23:19 |
| DaemonFC | when they actually raised points against people like Bill Clinton, instead of screaming "NAZI NAZI, SOCIALIST!!!!!!! zOMG!!!1111" at everything | Jan 23 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | kind of makes me wonder what the hell happened | Jan 23 23:20 |
| _Goblin | I believe Jellyfish should be included in the Cruelty to Animals act. | Jan 23 23:20 |
| DaemonFC | shit, Rush Limbaugh really lost me when he threw his support behind NAFTA | Jan 23 23:21 |
| _Goblin | I think going equiped to Badger bait should be an indictable only offence. | Jan 23 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | you know, according to Rush, we should all be living in this paradise where everyone has plenty and it's all thanks to NAFTA | Jan 23 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | instead we have a 20% unemployment rate, Canada is bitching about diversion of things like "their water" | Jan 23 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | and Mexico is now losing the jobs they got from the USA to China | Jan 23 23:22 |
| DaemonFC | _Goblin: indictable is like a misdemeanor then? | Jan 23 23:23 |
| _Goblin | no... | Jan 23 23:23 |
| _Goblin | straight to crown court. | Jan 23 23:23 |
| _Goblin | min 6months | Jan 23 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm, there's generally three classes of crime in the US | Jan 23 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | infractions, misdemeanors, and felonies | Jan 23 23:23 |
| DaemonFC | infractions are like parking, seat belt, speeding tickets, spitting on the sidewalk, etc. | Jan 23 23:24 |
| DaemonFC | just a fine, no record of it | Jan 23 23:24 |
| DaemonFC | misdemeanors are lesser offenses, those which can't carry more than a year in jail and a $5,000 fine | Jan 23 23:25 |
| _Goblin | all cases in the UK first go to Magistrates, if they deem the matter more serious they can send to crown or if the offense is trialable either way, the accused can elect to go to crown. Either way a case is first heard at magistrates and usually plea is entered there regardless of where the matter ends up. | Jan 23 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | felonies are major drug offenses, murders, accounting fraud, grand theft (over $500-1000 depending on the state | Jan 23 23:25 |
| _Goblin | that would be an indictable....over here... | Jan 23 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | a felony | Jan 23 23:25 |
| DaemonFC | ? | Jan 23 23:25 |
| _Goblin | your misdemeanors and infractions would come under a summary offense. | Jan 23 23:26 |
| _Goblin | like first case DUI | Jan 23 23:26 |
| _Goblin | or minor public order offenses. | Jan 23 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | When did the naming difference happen? I think maybe when we got rid of the British common law? | Jan 23 23:26 |
| DaemonFC | so must have been in the 1800s | Jan 23 23:26 |
| _Goblin | couldn't answer... | Jan 23 23:26 |
| _Goblin | don't know.. | Jan 23 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | we inherited the British Capital Buggery offense | Jan 23 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | punishable by death :P | Jan 23 23:27 |
| DaemonFC | some of Indiana's law still resembles the British common law system we threw out | Jan 23 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | though most of the remaining pieces are too barbaric to be enforceable | Jan 23 23:28 |
| DaemonFC | check forgery under an Indiana law never repealed still carries a punishment of 500 lashes | Jan 23 23:29 |
| DaemonFC | in public | Jan 23 23:29 |
| _Goblin | sounds painful. | Jan 23 23:29 |
| _Goblin | and rather embarassing | Jan 23 23:29 |
| *magentar has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) | Jan 23 23:29 | |
| DaemonFC | _Goblin: Well, the odd thing is, is that it's unconstitutional, not just under the federal constitution, but Indiana's state constitution as well | Jan 23 23:29 |
| DaemonFC | so it's classified concurrently as a Class A misdemeanor carrying 1 year and $5,000 fine as maximum | Jan 23 23:30 |
| _Goblin | couldn't I take the lashes instead? | Jan 23 23:30 |
| DaemonFC | Indiana's Bill of Rights has 20 stipulations | Jan 23 23:30 |
| _Goblin | they sound painful too | Jan 23 23:30 |
| DaemonFC | one of which is protection from cruel and unusual punishment | Jan 23 23:30 |
| _Goblin | I think I'd rather have a lash than a stipulation...don't like the sound of that at all. | Jan 23 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | it's actually a bit stronger than the US federal Bill of Rights | Jan 23 23:31 |
| _Goblin | ;) | Jan 23 23:31 |
| _Goblin | how about 250 lashes, 6months and a $2500 fine....can I haggle? | Jan 23 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.law.indiana.edu/uslawdocs/inconst/art-1.html | Jan 23 23:32 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Indiana Constitution - Article 1 .::. Size~: 10.94 KB | Jan 23 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Jan 23 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | No, you cannot be tried or punished under the flogging law | Jan 23 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | I wish they'd bring it back though | Jan 23 23:32 |
| _Goblin | or what about 250 lashes, no fine and a ruddy hard smack on the bottom? | Jan 23 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | I imagine there would not be any bad checks written ever again | Jan 23 23:32 |
| _Goblin | that will learn them to pay by debit card. | Jan 23 23:33 |
| DaemonFC | and while they're at it, child molestation should be 2,000 public lashings | Jan 23 23:33 |
| _Goblin | I think taking those people off the streets is more important.... | Jan 23 23:34 |
| _Goblin | rather see prison sentences. | Jan 23 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | I want the old British common law system back | Jan 23 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | tear down the prisons | Jan 23 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | flog the everloving shit out of them | Jan 23 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jan 23 23:34 |
| DaemonFC | major deterrent at a minimum of public expense | Jan 23 23:35 |
| _Goblin | whips are expensive if you get a good one. | Jan 23 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | so are walls, bars, and guards | Jan 23 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | and feeding millions of prisoners | Jan 23 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | flog the bastards | Jan 23 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | flog them I say! | Jan 23 23:36 |
| _Goblin | why don't we get the criminals to whip themselves and save even more money? | Jan 23 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | or let people pay to do it | Jan 23 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | tell them what the guy did | Jan 23 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | and take bids | Jan 23 23:36 |
| _Goblin | calm down daemonFC...I don't think you'll get a go just yet. | Jan 23 23:36 |
| DaemonFC | I just found a way to wipe out the state's debt | Jan 23 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Jan 23 23:37 |
| _Goblin | I might sound strange here but flogging another man with a whip is not something I'd really like to do... | Jan 23 23:37 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Good rant about why books are becoming antiquated: http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2010/01/21/On-Books | Jan 23 23:37 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: ongoing by Tim Bray · Paying For Books .::. Size~: 20.06 KB | Jan 23 23:37 |
| _Goblin | destroy the planet? | Jan 23 23:37 |
| _Goblin | move to mars? | Jan 23 23:37 |
| _Goblin | put you head under a pillow and hum really loudly? | Jan 23 23:38 |
| DaemonFC | _Goblin: Yeah, leave Earth behind as a prison planet | Jan 23 23:38 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Jan 23 23:38 |
| _Goblin | ok...tell you what, I'll stay here DaemonFC on this prison....you can go into space....theres a really nice planet nearby I promise. | Jan 23 23:38 |
| DaemonFC | hundreds of years later and many generations, they rename Earth.......Australia | Jan 23 23:38 |
| _Goblin | why no Daemonsville? | Jan 23 23:39 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: there's also a star really close | Jan 23 23:39 |
| _Goblin | wolf 359? | Jan 23 23:39 |
| schestowitz | It's like boiling a frog | Jan 23 23:39 |
| _Goblin | 5 light years I think... | Jan 23 23:39 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: no | Jan 23 23:40 |
| DaemonFC | I remember a battle taking place there | Jan 23 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Sun | Jan 23 23:40 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | Jan 23 23:40 |
| _Goblin | I think Europa is quite nice this time of year. | Jan 23 23:40 |
| schestowitz | Maybe we can build a space elevator to serve as a chute for space garbage en route to Sun's gravity/orbit | Jan 23 23:40 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: you should have voted McBush. Or just PR stunt? http://www.prwatch.org/node/8845 | Jan 23 23:40 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Cindy McCain Poses for Pro-Gay Marriage Ad Campaign | Center for Media and Democracy .::. Size~: 25.4 KB | Jan 23 23:40 |
| _Goblin | especially if you are into winter sports. | Jan 23 23:40 |
| DaemonFC | now, if you want to get into Star Trek, the kobayashi maru depiction in the movie had me laughing pretty hard | Jan 23 23:41 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: it's a nice moon, but any oxygen at all? | Jan 23 23:41 |
| _Goblin | "rewrite the rules" - yes Daemon I too am a ST fan. | Jan 23 23:41 |
| schestowitz | I watched the New Generation a lo | Jan 23 23:42 |
| schestowitz | *lot | Jan 23 23:42 |
| _Goblin | schestowitz: DaemonFC is full of so much hot air he will survive for years. | Jan 23 23:42 |
| DaemonFC | I didn't really like TNG much | Jan 23 23:43 |
| DaemonFC | I liked Voyager a lot | Jan 23 23:43 |
| _Goblin | Voyager was OK, it got better when the borg reappeared.....DS9 was probably my favorite. | Jan 23 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I also liked the Elite Force games | Jan 23 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | especially the Borg missions | Jan 23 23:44 |
| _Goblin | never played em. | Jan 23 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | they adapt and you have to keep changing weapons | Jan 23 23:44 |
| DaemonFC | you should try not to provoke them and they'll ignore you for a while | Jan 23 23:45 |
| DaemonFC | grenades help a lot :) | Jan 23 23:45 |
| schestowitz | Oh, here we go again.......:-( | Jan 23 23:45 |
| _Goblin | yeah..thanks...if I ever come across a borg I'll keep that in mind. | Jan 23 23:45 |
| DaemonFC | wait til there's the most of them you can get in one spot and toss a grenade in | Jan 23 23:46 |
| _Goblin | took the words right out of my mouth.... | Jan 23 23:46 |
| _Goblin | or... | Jan 23 23:46 |
| DaemonFC | "Assimilate This!" | Jan 23 23:46 |
| DaemonFC | 8-) | Jan 23 23:46 |
| _Goblin | you could simply realize its a computer game, switch it off and do something else. | Jan 23 23:46 |
| DaemonFC | takes all the fun out of it | Jan 23 23:46 |
| _Goblin | im sure. | Jan 23 23:46 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: Terrorist threat level raised to "really strong tea" http://newstechnica.com/?p=1340 | Jan 23 23:47 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Terrorist threat level raised to really strong tea | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 38.86 KB | Jan 23 23:47 |
| DaemonFC | they should place it to "Same as its always been" | Jan 23 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | and leave it there | Jan 23 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | the terror alert levels are nothing other than a political tool | Jan 23 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | raising us to "red alert" right before the 2004 election, for example | Jan 23 23:50 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Funny sign du jour [img]: http://www.blogicalthoughts.com/images/signs/1114_signs.jpg | Jan 23 23:50 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Jan 23 23:50 |
| DaemonFC | in the absence of a defined threat | Jan 23 23:50 |
| _Goblin | but how would that benefit the government in power? Wouldn't it suggest to the voter that the government couldn't secure its own country? | Jan 23 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | _Goblin: Why don't we all just go to brown alert? | Jan 23 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | there is no brown alert | Jan 23 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | you won't say that in a minutes | Jan 23 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | *minute | Jan 23 23:51 |
| _Goblin | eh? | Jan 23 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | and don't say I didn't alert you | Jan 23 23:51 |
| _Goblin | who are you having that conversation with? | Jan 23 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | Red Dwarf | Jan 23 23:51 |
| DaemonFC | I think it was the episode with the Suicide Squid | Jan 23 23:52 |
| _Goblin | ah...early episode.....no...suicide squid was Duane Dibley ep | Jan 23 23:52 |
| DaemonFC | no, that was the polymorph, right? | Jan 23 23:52 |
| _Goblin | yep... Duane Dibley appeared a few times | Jan 23 23:52 |
| schestowitz | I don't think DaemonFOX known the show Red Dward | Jan 23 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | Thermos | Jan 23 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | lunch box | Jan 23 23:53 |
| schestowitz | *warf | Jan 23 23:53 |
| _Goblin | "Back to reality" & "Polymorph" | Jan 23 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | and a triple thick condom.....you never know! | Jan 23 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | Jan 23 23:53 |
| _Goblin | the Duke of Dork | Jan 23 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | "The first time you use medicated shampoo, you'll disappear!" | Jan 23 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Jan 23 23:54 |
| _Goblin | quote to rimmer.... | Jan 23 23:54 |
| _Goblin | episode... | Jan 23 23:54 |
| _Goblin | DNA | Jan 23 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | mmhm | Jan 23 23:54 |
| _Goblin | the mutton vindaloo curry beast ep | Jan 23 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | lmfao | Jan 23 23:54 |
| _Goblin | Im better than google when it comes to scifi. | Jan 23 23:54 |
| DaemonFC | Lister tries to have Kryton turn him into Robocop | Jan 23 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | but it makes him 2 feet tall | Jan 23 23:55 |
| _Goblin | yep midget... | Jan 23 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Jan 23 23:55 |
| _Goblin | and a chicken and a hamster | Jan 23 23:55 |
| _Goblin | What have we created? | Jan 23 23:55 |
| _Goblin | Half man half extra indian curry. | Jan 23 23:55 |
| _Goblin | .. | Jan 23 23:55 |
| _Goblin | "Cant we just pacify it with some Indian restaurant music and flop wallpaper?" | Jan 23 23:56 |
| _Goblin | Im good. | Jan 23 23:56 |
| DaemonFC | "He has a video store card? You'd think they'd remember this guy....'Hey, you're the one that came in here last week, sneezed, and caused a monsoon!'" | Jan 23 23:56 |
| _Goblin | Part where the corpse falls through Rimmer and Kryten says: | Jan 23 23:56 |
| _Goblin | "I think he now knows what shirt tails are for" | Jan 23 23:56 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, that new 2009 mini-series was just kind of so-so | Jan 23 23:57 |
| _Goblin | agreed... | Jan 23 23:57 |
| _Goblin | the xmas special last year was good. | Jan 23 23:57 |
| DaemonFC | but some of their earlier stuff has had me in tears, trying to breathe | Jan 23 23:57 |
| _Goblin | they get back to earth.... | Jan 23 23:57 |
| _Goblin | sort of. | Jan 23 23:57 |
| _Goblin | "Sexual attractions a virus? Take me to a hospital Im a terminal case!" | Jan 23 23:58 |
| DaemonFC | ugggh | Jan 23 23:58 |
| _Goblin | "Quarantine" | Jan 23 23:58 |
| DaemonFC | I'd inject myself with everything in that lab at once | Jan 23 23:58 |
| DaemonFC | and whatever happens, happens | Jan 23 23:58 |
| schestowitz | _Goblin: you're cracking the DaemonFOX up. He might have another seizure :-) | Jan 23 23:58 |
| _Goblin | he's hit upon my specialist subject.....UK Scifi | Jan 23 23:59 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz: Yes, you are quite sensitive. It's left an impression on me. | Jan 23 23:59 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Jan 23 23:59 |
| DaemonFC | makes me want to be a better person, even | Jan 23 23:59 |
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