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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 18th, 2010

FurnaceBoy"Microsoft gives high praise to its MVPs, early adopters and technical experts who participate in its forums, help its customers and give critical feedback that helps shape its products. As a group, they're an enthusiastic bunch -- which helps explain their eagerness to tweet all that juicy information. Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer once called the MVPs his favorite group of people to address. Feb 18 00:00
FurnaceBoyThe MVP designation is a coveted award for many of them, and the annual pilgrimage to Redmond is often a highlight of their year."Feb 18 00:00
Diablo-D3> the annual pilgrimage to Redmond is often a highlight of their yearFeb 18 00:02
oiaohmMVP's normally don't rip him to shreds.Feb 18 00:02
Diablo-D3for the rest of us, getting laid does it for usFeb 18 00:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Nearly finished my look at Windows 7 from a Linux users point of view..Feb 18 00:03
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More #Ubuntu Derivatives/Flavours: #Lubuntu , Others http://ur1.ca/mltn http://ur1.ca/mlto http://ur1.ca/mltpFeb 18 00:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Lubuntu: Not Just for Lusers | WorksWithU .::. Size~: 47.94 KBFeb 18 00:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Security Expert Releases New Linux Distribution for Ethical ... .::. Size~: 7.67 KBFeb 18 00:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bordering on blasphemy? .::. Size~: 69.17 KBFeb 18 00:04
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Even #Microsoft Ally #Wipro Turns to #Linux #Android http://www.financialexpress.com/news/Wipro-Tech-in-pact-with-TI/580598/ #hellfrozeFeb 18 00:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Wipro Tech in pact with TI .::. Size~: 84.4 KBFeb 18 00:06
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Network-attached Storage Uses #Synology Based on #Linux http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Synology-DS710/?kc=rssFeb 18 00:08
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Two-bay NAS device can expand to seven bays - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 59.98 KBFeb 18 00:08
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ARM in Sub-notebooks is All About #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/mlue http://ur1.ca/mlufFeb 18 00:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle:             Arm and global foundries push mobile chip development - The Inquirer          .::. Size~: 65.98 KBFeb 18 00:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Are smartbooks and Linux meant for each other? « sola's blog .::. Size~: 29.24 KBFeb 18 00:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Top #GNU #Linux Operating Systems for Sub-notebooks, #Jolicloud Impresses http://ur1.ca/mluj http://ur1.ca/mlukFeb 18 00:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Top 5 Operating Systems for Netbooks | Notebooks.com .::. Size~: 37.99 KBFeb 18 00:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Jolicloud  A great Linux distro that - Best Latest Jolicloud  A great Linux distro that Mobile Phone Price | Mobile Phones Reviews Features Online in India .::. Size~: 54.81 KBFeb 18 00:13
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #iBad Alternative is a Good #GNU #Linux #Tablet http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10454499-1.htmlFeb 18 00:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: OpenTablet 7 is Flash-friendly iPad alternative | Crave - CNET .::. Size~: 70.5 KBFeb 18 00:14
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seller_liarwhy gnumeric attacks odf?Feb 18 00:14
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schestowitzDon't know...Feb 18 00:15
schestowitzBut they have always been dodgyFeb 18 00:15
schestowitzRoots in Miguel de la MicrosoftFeb 18 00:16
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #MeeGo Might Already be Producing #GNU #Linux #Tablets http://ur1.ca/mluw http://ur1.ca/mlux http://ur1.ca/mluyFeb 18 00:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Aava Mobile unveils worlds first fully open mobile device - SlashGear .::. Size~: 49.9 KBFeb 18 00:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Aava Mobile unveils open mobile device platform - Computer Business Review : News .::. Size~: 51.78 KBFeb 18 00:17
schestowitzhttp://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Gnumeric-1-10-released-931715.htmlFeb 18 00:19
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Gnumeric 1.10 released - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 30.53 KBFeb 18 00:19
MinceRhttp://xkcd.com/703/Feb 18 00:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: xkcd: Honor Societies .::. Size~: 8.27 KBFeb 18 00:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] @_Goblin what would dickie davies say.Feb 18 00:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware at an Inflexion Point -- Claim http://openceo.blogspot.com/2010/02/ive-got-feeling-is-open-source-at.htmlFeb 18 00:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Benoit des Ligneris : Open Source CEO: I've got a feeling : is Open Source at an inflexion point ? .::. Size~: 80.63 KBFeb 18 00:27
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Good Business Achieved with Free/Open Source Software http://ur1.ca/mlvt http://ur1.ca/mlvuFeb 18 00:31
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phIRCe-BNcTitle: Amplifying creativity and business performance with open source | opensource.com .::. Size~: 50.5 KBFeb 18 00:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] still seriously getting my arse kicked with old school tom clancy ghost recon. Playing on the devils os. :)Feb 18 00:33
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Sun/Oracle and GNU/Linux Coverge in Belgium Meeting http://ur1.ca/mlvw http://ur1.ca/mlvxFeb 18 00:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Data Charmer: Linux MySQL distros meeting in Brussels .::. Size~: 108.11 KBFeb 18 00:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: What happens to Sun's open-source software now? - Computerworld Blogs .::. Size~: 137.56 KBFeb 18 00:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Millions in Funding for Free/Open Source Software Company http://www.mmdnewswire.com/openerp-7069.htmlFeb 18 00:35
oiaohmhttp://apple.slashdot.org/story/10/02/17/1852234/Owners-Smash-iPhones-To-Get-Upgrades-Says-Insurance-Company  << Human nature at work.Feb 18 00:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot Apple Story | Owners Smash iPhones To Get Upgrades, Says Insurance Company .::. Size~: 159.42 KBFeb 18 00:43
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] MINIX and BSD/UNIX/Solaris in the News http://ur1.ca/mlwr http://ur1.ca/mlws http://ur1.ca/mlwu http://ur1.ca/mlwwFeb 18 00:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Video: Andrew Tanenbaum on Bugs and Minix' Reincarnation Server - Linux Magazine Online  .::. Size~: 32.8 KBFeb 18 00:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Eleven is Louder: OpenSource Operating Systems .::. Size~: 74.39 KBFeb 18 00:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Open Source embedded operating system Contiki updated to 2.4 - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 30.21 KBFeb 18 00:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: MilaX 0.5: OpenSolaris as Live-CD - Linux Magazine Online  .::. Size~: 30.06 KBFeb 18 00:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Google Gives Millions to #Wikipedia http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/17/google_wiki_gift/Feb 18 00:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Google gifts Wiki millions • The Register .::. Size~: 20.34 KBFeb 18 00:48
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Gnumeric 1.10 is Out with Improved #ODF Support http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Gnumeric-1-10-released-931715.htmlFeb 18 00:49
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Gnumeric 1.10 released - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 30.54 KBFeb 18 00:49
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware in #Government , #India 's Good Example http://ur1.ca/mlxc http://ur1.ca/mlxdFeb 18 00:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: What if politicians innovated the open source way? | opensource.com .::. Size~: 42.78 KBFeb 18 00:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The standard is open, almost | News | Down To Earth magazine  .::. Size~: 26.86 KBFeb 18 00:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_goblin] Good night all.....early start in the morning...Feb 18 00:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware Luminary Richard Stallman Helps #Copyright Reform http://www.popcitymedia.com/innovationnews/stallman0217.aspxFeb 18 00:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Meet free software guru Richard Stallman at Pitt .::. Size~: 29.33 KBFeb 18 00:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Civil Rights Defended by All #Search Engines But #Microsoft http://ur1.ca/mlxn http://ur1.ca/mlxoFeb 18 00:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Google and Yahoo! join Oz protests • The Register .::. Size~: 24.4 KBFeb 18 00:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC News - Google and Yahoo raise doubts over planned net filters .::. Size~: 47.41 KBFeb 18 00:54
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #NetNeutrality Guide and FUD http://ur1.ca/mlxq http://ur1.ca/mlxr http://ur1.ca/mlxsFeb 18 00:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Net Neutrality: A simple guide - Public sector organisations - ComputerworldUK .::. Size~: 89.36 KBFeb 18 00:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ridiculous Arguments: Net Neutrality Would Mean No iPhones | Techdirt .::. Size~: 91.75 KBFeb 18 00:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Tyee — Net Throttling Hasn't Stopped .::. Size~: 44.13 KBFeb 18 00:55
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schestowitzMinceR: you can never escape the tautology clubFeb 18 01:08
MinceR:>Feb 18 01:10
FurnaceBoyRush? Is that you? http://www.flickr.com/photos/toastercide/3922866861/in/set-72157623251377670/Feb 18 01:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Sontaran on Flickr - Photo Sharing! .::. Size~: 48.54 KBFeb 18 01:11
schestowitz"@schestowitz After the In-N-Out Burger crash killed most of the exec team, most companies forbid execs to travel together."Feb 18 01:12
schestowitz"@schestowitz I'm not sure. But you don't usually have 3-5 execs sharing a car the way they do with planes. Do they work in same building?"Feb 18 01:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] "I'm starting to think #Slashdot is just an index for #xkcd." https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1553826&cid=31176416Feb 18 01:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot Comments | 20 Years of Photoshop .::. Size~: 38.15 KBFeb 18 01:14
MinceRit's both worse and better than that. :>Feb 18 01:14
oiaohmFew companies like IBM use video hookups between lead execsFeb 18 01:16
oiaohmSo not all the core are ever in one building.  schestowitzFeb 18 01:16
oiaohmHeck not even in the same country.Feb 18 01:16
oiaohmOr they are designed like google.  Where if worse came to worse each plex has enough management struct to keep operations running even if the rest are no more.Feb 18 01:18
oiaohmSmall compaines are always at risk of exec team death.   They don't have enough.Feb 18 01:19
schestowitzMicrosoft loses a lot of staff without casualtiesFeb 18 01:19
schestowitzThey abandonFeb 18 01:19
oiaohmStrange for abandon that lots remain pro MS when they get to other companies.Feb 18 01:22
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: low morale, but ppl stay because they are convinced it's "worse outside".Feb 18 01:26
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: cult mentalityFeb 18 01:27
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: the analogy i posed some weeks ago with Scientology holds some water I thinkFeb 18 01:27
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: "We're Microsoft. We have the answers. Will that be cheque or credit card?"Feb 18 01:28
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: Levels.Feb 18 01:28
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: get closer to secrets, never quite reach... just one more rollout... just one more...Feb 18 01:29
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schestowitzFurnaceBoy: yes, they are like a cultFeb 18 01:34
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?q=site:boycottnovell.com+cult&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B5GGGL_enGB315GB316&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-GBFeb 18 01:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: site:boycottnovell.com cult - Google Search .::. Size~: 26.32 KBFeb 18 01:34
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yuhongPrevx has the details on what exactly is happening:Feb 18 01:38
yuhonghttp://www.prevx.com/blog/143/BSOD-after-MS-TDL-authors-apologize.htmlFeb 18 01:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BSOD after MS10-015? TDL3 authors "apologize" .::. Size~: 12.15 KBFeb 18 01:38
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Ender2070schestowitz - did you know that the canadian made a secret agreement with monsanto, canadians have had gmo foods for over 10 yearsFeb 18 01:42
Ender2070canadian government*Feb 18 01:42
Ender2070they tested them out on usFeb 18 01:42
oiaohmhttp://www.prevx.com/blog/139/Tdss-rootkit-silently-owns-the-net.html  << Hmm Nice lie there. No anti-root kit able to by pass diskfiltering.  There is a anti-rootkit that works.  Boot from Linux and search for altered data on the raw filesystem.Feb 18 01:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Tdss rootkit silently owns the net .::. Size~: 14.38 KBFeb 18 01:52
FurnaceBoy^^ yep. reading. great link.Feb 18 01:53
FurnaceBoyi think yuhong sees this somehow as a good advertisement for WindowsFeb 18 01:53
oiaohmyuhong also is wrong is not just the Tdss Rootkit with issue.Feb 18 01:54
oiaohmMy form of system auditing items like rootkits don't hide.Feb 18 01:54
oiaohmThere software to hide does not even get run.Feb 18 01:54
oiaohmThe only thing I fear is a bios level rootkit.Feb 18 01:54
FurnaceBoy"International law police should really consider about cooperating with security vendors and try to shut down this botnet network by tracking down the gang behind it" HAHAHAHAHHAHAFeb 18 01:55
oiaohmOk what is simpler.Feb 18 01:55
oiaohmShutdown windows or find them.Feb 18 01:55
oiaohmRemember the old nortons and the like make boot floppys to scan machines for infections.Feb 18 01:57
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: right. the F-Secure Rescue CD follows this approach. Boots Linux and uses ntfs-3gFeb 18 01:58
oiaohmWe now need boot dvd and drop the idea of scanning the core of the OS with signatures.Feb 18 01:58
FurnaceBoyI'm not afraid of BIOS rootkits; my machines don't have PC BIOS.. :)Feb 18 01:58
oiaohmInstead directly compare the core of the OS agaisnt what should be there.Feb 18 01:58
oiaohmIt would be faster.Feb 18 01:58
oiaohmIe HIDS method.Feb 18 01:59
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: http://www.f-secure.com/linux-weblog/2008/06/19/f-secure-rescue-cd-300-released/Feb 18 01:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: F-Secure Linux weblog  » Blog Archive   » F-Secure Rescue CD 3.00 released .::. Size~: 4.12 KBFeb 18 01:59
oiaohmRootkit vs HIDS method normally equals one dead rootkit.Feb 18 01:59
oiaohmReally MS could release a HIDS scan system for windows.Feb 18 02:00
FurnaceBoycost/benefitFeb 18 02:01
oiaohmBasically you defeat rootkits by removing there means to hid.Feb 18 02:01
FurnaceBoymalware isn't yet a threat to microsoftFeb 18 02:01
FurnaceBoywhen users begin to see malware as a switching issue, we'll see more responseFeb 18 02:02
FurnaceBoyso far, they think malware is a fact of life.Feb 18 02:02
FurnaceBoyhence the customary deletion of "microsoft" or "windows" from security reportingFeb 18 02:02
FurnaceBoy"My PC has a virus."Feb 18 02:02
FurnaceBoy"Oh, that's bad luck."Feb 18 02:03
FurnaceBoy"They say the next Windows will be more secure!"Feb 18 02:03
FurnaceBoyjust like, "They say IE9 will be standards compliant!"Feb 18 02:03
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FurnaceBoyjweyrich: boa noiteFeb 18 02:04
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FurnaceBoyso in fact the perception is that, irritations exist, but everyone has to suffer themFeb 18 02:04
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: boa noite! :)Feb 18 02:04
FurnaceBoythat's the beneficial untruthFeb 18 02:04
jweyrichthanks for the memo, I read about the rk. but it's very primitive :)Feb 18 02:05
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: was just being discussed here. yeah, typical 'vendor press release'.Feb 18 02:05
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: complete with 'if only the police would talk to us, we'd catch the bastards' ... until the next one comes along...Feb 18 02:06
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: some of these people surely think they are in a movie... maybe 'swordfish' ? :DFeb 18 02:06
oiaohmLot of high level Linux admins don't use the reformat method.Feb 18 02:08
jweyrichthe *hacker world* causes many *feelings* around the world. it's just like if it were a super-criminal thing, the most advanced thing.Feb 18 02:08
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: eysFeb 18 02:08
FurnaceBoyyes*Feb 18 02:08
oiaohmThey use the HIDS method so rootkit techs get caught.Feb 18 02:08
oiaohmLot of rootkits in Linux are starting to live in memory only.Feb 18 02:08
oiaohmSince living on disk equals found.Feb 18 02:08
jweyrichif Microsoft wants to get the author, it's as easy as taking candy from babies.Feb 18 02:09
jweyrichbut they're dumb.Feb 18 02:09
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @vibgyorfilm: Good Morning tweeps. Day 2 of #ViBGYOR2010 starts today 9.00am @sangeeta nataka academi campus, thrissur.Feb 18 02:10
oiaohmCore OS infections that are impossiable to detect is a sign of a defective OS.Feb 18 02:10
jweyrichoiaohm: I'd say the architecture collaborates.Feb 18 02:10
jweyrichvirtualization mainly.Feb 18 02:11
jweyrichrutkowska has proofed that in the past.Feb 18 02:12
oiaohmvirtualization is not a 100 percent cure.Feb 18 02:12
jweyrichit isn't cure.Feb 18 02:12
oiaohmSystems are always taken off line at particular times.Feb 18 02:12
jweyrichit's the major problem :)Feb 18 02:13
oiaohmto do upgrades and the like.Feb 18 02:13
oiaohmIn some cases you can rip the harddisk out put another in raid controller rebuilds.Feb 18 02:13
jweyrichtake blue pill and *upgrade* it.Feb 18 02:13
oiaohmand you can hids that disk for any non approved alterations.Feb 18 02:13
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Examples of #Microsoft Bias at #TheRegister http://boycottnovell.com/2010/02/17/the-register-anti-google/Feb 18 02:14
phIRCe-BNcTitle: New Examples of Microsoft Bias at The Register | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 94.34 KBFeb 18 02:14
oiaohmSo meaning rootkits cannot store on disk.Feb 18 02:14
oiaohmSo they have to stay memory only so die as soon as system is rebooted.Feb 18 02:14
jweyrichthey don't need to be stored on disk.Feb 18 02:14
oiaohmLack of long term storage gives them sorter lifes.Feb 18 02:14
jweyrichnot as simple as it seems.Feb 18 02:15
oiaohmshorter livesFeb 18 02:15
oiaohmreally the only area we cannot cover effectively is ram.Feb 18 02:15
oiaohmBios's physical write protect switches protects them.Feb 18 02:16
jweyrichhehFeb 18 02:16
jweyrichhids isn't the final solution.Feb 18 02:17
oiaohmCode can only work if it has someone to run.  jweyrichFeb 18 02:17
oiaohmFor the core of the OS it is.  jweyrichFeb 18 02:17
jweyrichrks can modify the hids itself.Feb 18 02:17
jweyrichno, it isn't.Feb 18 02:17
schestowitz[01:42] <Ender2070> schestowitz - did you know that the canadian made a secret agreement with monsanto, canadians have had gmo foods for over 10 yearsFeb 18 02:17
oiaohmProper hids.Feb 18 02:17
schestowitzI thought they got bustedFeb 18 02:17
schestowitzThere was a hearingFeb 18 02:17
oiaohmRunning from a clean OS core. jweyrichFeb 18 02:17
schestowitzAnd EU looked and took lessonsFeb 18 02:17
jweyrichproper software can't be exploited. do they exist?Feb 18 02:17
oiaohmrks cannot do anything against that.Feb 18 02:17
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: Australia has similar history here, I think.Feb 18 02:17
jweyrichI think that sentence is also true for "proper hids"Feb 18 02:17
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: US corps own a lot of Australian arable land.Feb 18 02:18
oiaohmA proper hids setup attacker cannot get access to.Feb 18 02:18
oiaohmThe hids system is basically read only core.Feb 18 02:18
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] #ViBGYOR2010 comes with more than 100 films, miniconfs, campaign forums, workshops, and music nightsFeb 18 02:19
jweyrichmicrosoft can track the development by using putting a signature finder on their tuesday patches.Feb 18 02:19
jweyrichs/using//Feb 18 02:19
oiaohmPowerpc cpus are great for this.Feb 18 02:19
oiaohmSince they can run there OS with no ram at all.  jweyrichFeb 18 02:19
oiaohmIe cpu + rom chip.Feb 18 02:19
oiaohmDoing a package to package compare.Feb 18 02:19
jweyrichwhich OS runs without RAM?Feb 18 02:19
oiaohmA proper hidsFeb 18 02:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @tinblue If anyone remembers Blake's 7 I stumbled upon this video which I thought well done http://goo.gl/Qsf4 #blakes7 // great show!Feb 18 02:20
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- "Blake's 7" - The Story of Avon & Blake .::. Size~: 119.89 KBFeb 18 02:20
oiaohmI did not say a proper hids has a OS under it.  jweyrichFeb 18 02:20
jweyrichyou mean it should be put inside the processor itself, L1, L2?Feb 18 02:20
oiaohmYep.  jweyrichFeb 18 02:20
jweyrichthat will push the malware development to a new stage.Feb 18 02:20
oiaohmAt that done rootkitting is impossiable.Feb 18 02:21
jweyrichbut I'm not sure the vendors are prepared for this. they have no know-how.Feb 18 02:21
oiaohmThey already exist in some high end Linux/Unix systems.Feb 18 02:21
jweyrichthe ideal is to create a new architecture, focused on security.Feb 18 02:21
jweyrichIA fails epically.Feb 18 02:22
oiaohmEven allowing l1 and l2 to be ram.Feb 18 02:22
jweyrichepically <- new word? lolFeb 18 02:22
oiaohmpowerpc chips are still solid.Feb 18 02:22
oiaohmWhen running from rom.Feb 18 02:22
oiaohmSince the protected state of the rom is transfered to the l1 and l2 ram protection states.Feb 18 02:23
oiaohmBy CPU with no code way of altering.Feb 18 02:23
oiaohmIBM did design a great chip for the job.Feb 18 02:23
jweyrichthey may create a new unit exclusively for that purpose. no need for L1 and L2.Feb 18 02:24
jweyrichit just needs to feed the branch prediction.Feb 18 02:24
jweyrichor the executor unitFeb 18 02:24
oiaohmWhat branch prediction.Feb 18 02:24
oiaohmPPC chips can operate without that.Feb 18 02:24
oiaohmThe instructions are native to the cpu.Feb 18 02:24
cubezzzhow about ARM motherboards for desktops?Feb 18 02:24
cubezzzare we going to get those?Feb 18 02:25
jweyrichnot talking about RISC or PPC only.Feb 18 02:25
oiaohmArm chips lack the protection for rom chips to l1 and l2Feb 18 02:25
oiaohmBut it could be added.Feb 18 02:25
cubezzzyeah but it seems there's nothing at all at the momentFeb 18 02:26
oiaohmx86 chips due to branch preduction crap is basically stuffed.Feb 18 02:26
jweyrichcubezzz: why would you want a desktop running ARM?Feb 18 02:26
jweyrichcortex is way too slow.Feb 18 02:26
oiaohmAlso that smm and other branch prediuction crap in the x86 has also created cpu level OS breaching. jweyrichFeb 18 02:26
oiaohmBasically first thing stop running crap cpus.Feb 18 02:27
oiaohmExactly what about a OS cores files should not be knowable.  jweyrichFeb 18 02:28
oiaohmHids fails in the likes of user home directories when the data is not predictable.Feb 18 02:28
cubezzzjweyrich, for the power savings, more efficiencyFeb 18 02:29
cubezzzthere is actually one I sawFeb 18 02:29
FurnaceBoycubezzz: same motive as Transmeta, methinksFeb 18 02:29
FurnaceBoycubezzz: they got pretty good power efficiency with CrusoeFeb 18 02:29
cubezzzcurrent cpus are all power hogsFeb 18 02:29
FurnaceBoyyesFeb 18 02:29
oiaohmEven transmeta chip was not as power effective as arm or ppc in most cases.Feb 18 02:30
*FurnaceBoy likes the SPARC NiagaraFeb 18 02:30
jweyrichcubezzz: well, A4 is ARM based. if you wish.Feb 18 02:30
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: they got very low for x86 thoFeb 18 02:30
cubezzzfor example, imagine what you could do with a 1 gigahertz 6502 :)Feb 18 02:30
oiaohmTranslating instructions costs a lot.Feb 18 02:30
jweyrichit's cortex 9.Feb 18 02:30
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oiaohmLow for x86 is not really that low.Feb 18 02:30
jweyrichA9*Feb 18 02:30
cubezzzA4?Feb 18 02:30
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: grantedFeb 18 02:30
jweyrichyes, the ipad processor.Feb 18 02:30
oiaohmThe ipad locked bit of crap.Feb 18 02:30
oiaohmLinux guys like to be able to customise thier stuff.Feb 18 02:31
cubezzzI bet my computers are responsible for a major chunk of my electric billFeb 18 02:31
jweyrichwell, you can customize your kernel, and so on :)Feb 18 02:31
jweyrichit's just mac inside.Feb 18 02:31
cubezzzexcept for the zaurus, which is like 5 watts :)Feb 18 02:32
jweyrichbut I wouldn't buy one.Feb 18 02:32
cubezzzAthlon was another piggie cpuFeb 18 02:32
jweyrichcubezzz: probably your 10k RPM hdds, and your ATI/NV vcard + your 27" display.Feb 18 02:33
FurnaceBoyEfficeon came in two package types: a 783- and a 592-contact ball grid array. Its power consumption was moderate (with some consuming as little as 3 watts at 1 GHz and 7 watts at 1.5 GHz), so it could be passively cooled.Feb 18 02:33
cubezzznah, I only have a 17" LCDFeb 18 02:33
jweyrichwell, you can always consider paying a shaker :DFeb 18 02:34
cubezzzthere's 800 mhz netwalker, but it's not desktopFeb 18 02:35
jweyrichour current processors are so powerful, but current OSes fuck them.Feb 18 02:36
cubezzzjweyrich, stuff like this is interesting:Feb 18 02:36
cubezzzhttp://www.iyonix.com/Feb 18 02:36
jweyrichrisc os. haha.Feb 18 02:37
jweyrichit's like being the anarchy.Feb 18 02:38
cubezzzno more wintel for me :)Feb 18 02:38
FurnaceBoy:)Feb 18 02:38
cubezzzand really is x86 that great?Feb 18 02:39
cubezzzI don't think soFeb 18 02:39
FurnaceBoyaccidental successFeb 18 02:39
jweyrichunix86 ftw.Feb 18 02:39
cubezzzI miss my 6502Feb 18 02:40
*jweyrich waits for a better arch.Feb 18 02:40
FurnaceBoylike windows, the die was cast by political machinationsFeb 18 02:40
FurnaceBoycubezzz: i used to write a lot of 6502 assembler on BBC MicroFeb 18 02:40
cubezzzyeah, c64 and vic20 for meFeb 18 02:40
FurnaceBoycubezzz: it's one of those machines where hand asm is fun. Feb 18 02:40
cubezzzexactlyFeb 18 02:40
jweyrichlet's buy some Cells and buy a new ps3 cluster.Feb 18 02:41
jweyrichspes & ppes are coolFeb 18 02:41
cubezzzimagine if Commodore never went bankrupt, how cool are computers would be todayFeb 18 02:41
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: did you see the data on new IBM POWER and SPARC Niagara generations?Feb 18 02:41
jweyrichFurnaceBoy: no.Feb 18 02:42
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: arstechicaFeb 18 02:42
jweyrichtoday?Feb 18 02:42
FurnaceBoyno, a week or so agoFeb 18 02:42
FurnaceBoyvery niceFeb 18 02:42
jweyrichoh. will checkFeb 18 02:42
*FurnaceBoy would love a T1000 or T2000 to play withFeb 18 02:42
oiaohmSparc and IBM Power are having to compete against tile gx chips.Feb 18 02:42
FurnaceBoyi might buy a 1st gen on ebay someday :)Feb 18 02:42
Ender2070i would love a t-1000Feb 18 02:42
cubezzzyears ago, everyone was talking up RISC, now it seems everything is x86 more than everFeb 18 02:43
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oiaohmx86 is risc internally.  cubezzzFeb 18 02:43
jweyrichwhat?Feb 18 02:43
FurnaceBoywe had this argument a while back. :)Feb 18 02:43
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: the microarchitecture isFeb 18 02:43
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: it's the only way to pull the trick off Feb 18 02:43
oiaohmAll x86 instructions going into intel and amd chips have to be translated to internal riscFeb 18 02:43
cubezzzwhy not just go RISC? :)Feb 18 02:44
cubezzzseems simplerFeb 18 02:44
FurnaceBoycubezzz: economics/politicsFeb 18 02:44
oiaohmWindows.Feb 18 02:44
FurnaceBoycubezzz: economics of scale, mass production, and Windows, yes.Feb 18 02:44
cubezzzbah, windows is always the problemFeb 18 02:44
FurnaceBoycubezzz: also see - "worse is better," etc.Feb 18 02:44
jweyrichwell, I can't discuss on that, don't really know how the opcodes are handled internally.Feb 18 02:44
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: there have been a few iterations of microarchitecture; wikipedia has a history of itFeb 18 02:45
oiaohmThe translation is why a precdiction engine is required.  jweyrichFeb 18 02:45
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: but yeah AMD and INtel do it, AMD used this to gain early performance edgeFeb 18 02:45
jweyrichprediction isn't made for that.Feb 18 02:45
FurnaceBoyspeculative executionFeb 18 02:45
jweyrichyes, but it's for performance.Feb 18 02:45
cubezzzwhat about intel's Xscale cpu? Was that RISC?Feb 18 02:45
oiaohmAMD are changing there caches over in there new design.Feb 18 02:45
jweyrichnothing else.Feb 18 02:45
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: the whole game is performance :)Feb 18 02:45
oiaohmSo the translate is done as the data is moved into l2 cache.Feb 18 02:46
jweyrichbut it isn't related to the translation itself.Feb 18 02:46
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: the microarchitecture is where the battle is fought nowFeb 18 02:46
oiaohmIt is really.Feb 18 02:46
FurnaceBoyjweyrich: and for the past decade, reallyFeb 18 02:46
cubezzzpeople are too fixated on speedFeb 18 02:46
FurnaceBoycubezzz: yesFeb 18 02:46
oiaohmYou don't have bad branch prediction on arm cpu's or 486's  jweyrichFeb 18 02:46
oiaohmReason both are native.Feb 18 02:46
oiaohmYou have bad l1 and l2 cache prediction.Feb 18 02:47
jweyrichhehFeb 18 02:47
jweyrichl1 and l2 are just used to diminish FSB latency.Feb 18 02:48
jweyrichbranch prediction is just the player behind the caches.Feb 18 02:48
oiaohmWhy does a cpu need a que of instructions.Feb 18 02:48
oiaohmThe l1 cache is a que.Feb 18 02:49
jweyrichRISC had branch prediction as well.Feb 18 02:49
cubezzza cpu that doesn't run hot would be niceFeb 18 02:49
jweyrichhad, or still has.Feb 18 02:49
oiaohmRISC branch prediction controls preheading into cache.Feb 18 02:49
cubezzzlike: no fan required :)Feb 18 02:49
oiaohmAnd it a lot longer than 12 and 8 instructions long.Feb 18 02:50
jweyrichso, where the translation comes in in the branch prediction thing?Feb 18 02:50
jweyrichtranslation is pre-execution.Feb 18 02:50
oiaohmThe branch prediction controls what most x86 cpus translate.Feb 18 02:51
oiaohmTo native.Feb 18 02:51
FurnaceBoycubezzz: how fast?Feb 18 02:51
oiaohmInstead of like a risc just controlling the cache contents.  jweyrichFeb 18 02:51
jweyrichsurely it does, but translation isn't the reason for a branch predictor.Feb 18 02:51
FurnaceBoycubezzz: you could buy a G4 Cube to suit your nick, they had no fan. :)Feb 18 02:52
jweyrichwithout translation, you can still have a branch predictor.Feb 18 02:52
oiaohmWhere the branch prediction is in the x86 it is jweyrichFeb 18 02:52
oiaohmIts techically in the wrong place.Feb 18 02:52
cubezzzfans failFeb 18 02:52
jweyrichnow we're making some progress on the discussionFeb 18 02:52
cubezzzmechanical parts always fail, especially fansFeb 18 02:52
FurnaceBoycubezzz: what about the G4 CUbe idea? :)Feb 18 02:53
oiaohmYou think branch prediction 12 instructions in advance.  jweyrichFeb 18 02:53
oiaohmThat is not a lot.Feb 18 02:53
cubezzznah, I like ARM :)Feb 18 02:53
oiaohmSo is really simple to covert 12 instructions and have the first instruction jump off to another path.  jweyrichFeb 18 02:53
oiaohmSo having to dump all 11 instructions that were converted.Feb 18 02:54
oiaohmEvery conversion like that is generating heat.Feb 18 02:54
oiaohmAnd wasting power.Feb 18 02:54
cubezzzthere's no reason you need these super fast cpus for a web serverFeb 18 02:55
oiaohmEven worse the conversion engine runs on a microcode(a byte code saying how to do the conversion)Feb 18 02:55
cubezzzARM can do itFeb 18 02:55
FurnaceBoycubezzz: for low power, hi throughput web servers: SPARC NiagaraFeb 18 02:55
FurnaceBoycubezzz: it's what it's designed for.Feb 18 02:55
cubezzzhow much?Feb 18 02:55
oiaohmSame with tile gx chips FurnaceBoyFeb 18 02:55
FurnaceBoythe first gen was ~ 75W, but it runs 8 hw threads per coreFeb 18 02:56
FurnaceBoythe current gen is much more powerfulFeb 18 02:56
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: except they don't run Solaris :)Feb 18 02:56
oiaohmtile gx chips first generation.  100 cores single thead 1.5 ghz max power 55 WFeb 18 02:56
FurnaceBoycubezzz: http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T2/Feb 18 02:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: UltraSPARC T2 Processor - Overview   .::. Size~: 25.08 KBFeb 18 02:57
oiaohmhttp://www.tilera.com/products/TILE-Gx.phpFeb 18 02:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Tilera Corporation .::. Size~: 17.02 KBFeb 18 02:57
FurnaceBoycubezzz: and the latest gen: http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2010/02/two-billion-transistor-beasts-power7-and-niagara-3.arsFeb 18 02:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Two billion-transistor beasts: POWER7 and Niagara 3 .::. Size~: 33.5 KBFeb 18 02:57
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: I want to be able to run Solaris on a web server.Feb 18 02:57
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oiaohmMe Linux with segmenation FurnaceBoyFeb 18 02:58
FurnaceBoyi want better facilities. zones, zfs, etc.Feb 18 02:58
oiaohmtile gx splits cpus off into blocks.Feb 18 02:59
oiaohmSo OS crashs in one of those blocks the rest goes along uneffected.Feb 18 02:59
FurnaceBoyhm, looks like that arstechnica article is about the only good info around atmFeb 18 02:59
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: yeah, I use Erlang :)Feb 18 02:59
FurnaceBoythe subject of erlang on tilera comes up on the listFeb 18 03:00
oiaohmBig thing with tile chips you don't have network card to cpu issues.Feb 18 03:01
oiaohmJust weld a scary big network card straight in the cpu.Feb 18 03:02
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: Niagara does that too.Feb 18 03:02
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: PCIe and GbE on boardFeb 18 03:02
oiaohm40Gbe x2 in the tile gxFeb 18 03:03
FurnaceBoyniceFeb 18 03:03
FurnaceBoythat's for backplane, presumablyFeb 18 03:03
oiaohmThat can be reconfigted.Feb 18 03:04
shreddarHey, does anyone here think Google will make VP8 (and previous versions) royalty free after the On2 deal finalises?Feb 18 03:04
oiaohmTo like 8 10 GBe and 32 Gbe ports FurnaceBoyFeb 18 03:04
FurnaceBoyi seeFeb 18 03:05
oiaohmAs I say big scary network.Feb 18 03:05
FurnaceBoyso it's a great HPC building blockFeb 18 03:05
oiaohmcard.Feb 18 03:05
oiaohmThe other chips need to get one.Feb 18 03:05
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oiaohmBasically by the time you need to use the PCI-e ports on the tile gx for network cards it time to get worried.Feb 18 03:07
oiaohmSo I guess you can now see my issue with the sparc chip.  Little lacking in the network connect department.Feb 18 03:09
FurnaceBoynot for many intended uses, thoughFeb 18 03:12
FurnaceBoyit's a good fit for web/db serverFeb 18 03:12
FurnaceBoywith that workload, you can't easily saturate Gb linksFeb 18 03:12
oiaohmI would not say that.Feb 18 03:13
FurnaceBoyand it runs everything off the shelf, which is a plusFeb 18 03:13
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: the presumption is that a request involves enough work that it's compute boundFeb 18 03:13
oiaohmtile gx are for likes of sites that want to send like live broadcasts to the net and the like.Feb 18 03:13
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: or disk bound... not network. small payloads.Feb 18 03:13
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: totally different caseFeb 18 03:14
FurnaceBoyoiaohm: i am talking about typical web/db with small payloads, which is the most common caseFeb 18 03:14
oiaohmOnly thing that annoys me is not being able to drop a good video card on tile gx.Feb 18 03:14
oiaohmTile gx also work well when you are doing network storage lots of.Feb 18 03:15
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oiaohmNormally I don't run a server single FurnaceBoyFeb 18 03:21
oiaohmThat is why I like 40 Gbe interconnects.   So network based raiding runs very well.Feb 18 03:22
shreddarHey here's another Dilbert I think you guy's'd like:Feb 18 03:25
shreddarhttp://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2003-01-20/Feb 18 03:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Dilbert comic strip for 01/20/2003 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive. .::. Size~: 20.81 KBFeb 18 03:25
jweyrichhell. literally slept on the keybd.Feb 18 03:28
jweyrichnight everyoneFeb 18 03:28
FurnaceBoynite!~Feb 18 03:29
cubezzzlaterFeb 18 03:29
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*oiaohm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Feb 18 03:29
shreddarHere's another good one:Feb 18 03:36
shreddarhttp://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2003-01-25/Feb 18 03:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Dilbert comic strip for 01/25/2003 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive. .::. Size~: 20.75 KBFeb 18 03:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft is Still Attacking Free/Open Source Software with #Security #FUD http://boycottnovell.com/2010/02/17/microsoft-on-many-eyeballs/Feb 18 03:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft is Still Attacking Free/Open Source Software With Security FUD | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 97.23 KBFeb 18 03:47
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] More evidence and new stories told about how #Microsoft #Windows deficiencies lead to loss of life http://ur1.ca/mmetFeb 18 04:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Yes, Windows Causes Deaths Sometimes | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 90.21 KBFeb 18 04:17
cubezzzummFeb 18 04:20
cubezzzok how does doze cause death?Feb 18 04:21
FurnaceBoyeh?Feb 18 04:21
FurnaceBoywhen it's deployed in mission critical systems -- infrastructure, hospitals, power plants, etc, etcFeb 18 04:22
FurnaceBoyis just one caseFeb 18 04:22
FurnaceBoyall these are subject to the ordinary windows problemsFeb 18 04:22
FurnaceBoyi didn't read Roy's link, but common sense says that windows takes lives every dayFeb 18 04:22
FurnaceBoyfollow comp.risks and you can get specific casesFeb 18 04:22
cubezzzhuh, well then if it's _critical_ why are they using doze? That just seems negligentFeb 18 04:23
FurnaceBoymost people just don't consider all the places where windows is used where public safety is concernedFeb 18 04:23
FurnaceBoycubezzz: of course it isFeb 18 04:23
FurnaceBoycubezzz: but people use windows in all kinds of inappropriate usesFeb 18 04:23
cubezzzI bet the mars probe didn't use doze :)Feb 18 04:24
FurnaceBoycubezzz: even those specifically prohibited by its EULAFeb 18 04:24
FurnaceBoycubezzz: they like to use Vxworks etcFeb 18 04:24
FurnaceBoyhow do you get the bot to google?Feb 18 04:24
cubezzzwhat bot? :)Feb 18 04:25
FurnaceBoythe back issues of this http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/risks  give a lot of specific incidentsFeb 18 04:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Catless Web Server - Bifurcated Rivets, Zircon, Risks, theVirtual Memorial Garden .::. Size~: 2.64 KBFeb 18 04:25
cubezzzok, I can see doze in hospitals as being very badFeb 18 04:25
FurnaceBoyand it's IN hospitals. it's IN transit. it's IN energy infra.Feb 18 04:25
FurnaceBoyit's everywhereFeb 18 04:25
cubezzzdoze is bad anywhere Feb 18 04:25
FurnaceBoyof course it's stupid and dangerous and negligent.Feb 18 04:25
FurnaceBoyit's in WARSHIPSFeb 18 04:26
FurnaceBoyand submarinesFeb 18 04:26
FurnaceBoyand yes, controlling weaponsFeb 18 04:26
cubezzzthe US mil uses Linux thoughFeb 18 04:26
FurnaceBoyin some places.Feb 18 04:26
cubezzzI know that for sureFeb 18 04:26
FurnaceBoysure they do.Feb 18 04:26
FurnaceBoyof course they use a whole swathe of operating systemsFeb 18 04:26
cubezzzwhen it has to work, don't use doze :)Feb 18 04:26
FurnaceBoySolaris, BSD, everythingFeb 18 04:26
cubezzzright, just like BellFeb 18 04:26
FurnaceBoycubezzz: http://www.google.ca/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=windows+for+warships&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8Feb 18 04:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: windows for warships - Google Search .::. Size~: 27.54 KBFeb 18 04:27
cubezzzwhat do the nukes use? :)Feb 18 04:27
cubezzzjust curious, you know :)Feb 18 04:27
FurnaceBoyprobably mostly specialised embedded stuff.Feb 18 04:27
FurnaceBoycertainly not consumer o/s :)Feb 18 04:27
cubezzzWindows for Warships, lolFeb 18 04:27
cubezzzSir, we got a BSOD _again_Feb 18 04:28
FurnaceBoyNASA uses vxworks in probes, and probably other thingsFeb 18 04:28
FurnaceBoycubezzz: YES, ships have been grounded and damaged due to Windows issuesFeb 18 04:28
FurnaceBoyit's only a matter of time before weapons systems are compromised or failFeb 18 04:28
FurnaceBoyall of the infrastructural cases above have suffered due to virusesFeb 18 04:29
cubezzzI thought the UK would have more senseFeb 18 04:29
FurnaceBoyin some cases, very close to reactor safety systemsFeb 18 04:29
FurnaceBoyhospitals are commonly suffering service degradation outages due to windowsFeb 18 04:29
FurnaceBoycubezzz: the engineers protested, and were firedFeb 18 04:29
cubezzzat least don't connect the hopstials to the webFeb 18 04:29
FurnaceBoycubezzz: money talksFeb 18 04:29
cubezzzthat's just stupidFeb 18 04:29
FurnaceBoyhttp://www.slothmud.org/~hayward/mic_humor/nt_navy.htmlFeb 18 04:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: multiplayer free online rpg game :: text based rpg game .::. Size~: 77.53 KBFeb 18 04:30
FurnaceBoyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMCS#SMCS-NG_as_first_deployment_of_.22Windows_for_Warships.22Feb 18 04:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: SMCS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 35.13 KBFeb 18 04:30
cubezzzknowing just what _I_ know I would never put doze in anything :)Feb 18 04:30
FurnaceBoyand I agree.Feb 18 04:30
FurnaceBoybut people do.Feb 18 04:31
cubezzzI kicked it out of my house :)Feb 18 04:31
FurnaceBoymoney talks.Feb 18 04:31
FurnaceBoyhttp://www.geeknews.net/2008/12/18/royal-navy-completes-windows-for-submarines-rolloutFeb 18 04:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Royal Navy Completes Windows for Submarines&trade; Rollout «  Geeknews .::. Size~: 38.94 KBFeb 18 04:31
cubezzzFurnaceBoy, I know a few guys who never use a non-text browser evenFeb 18 04:32
FurnaceBoyhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/10/11/windowsbased_destroyer_to_dominate_littoral/Feb 18 04:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Windows-based destroyer to dominate littoral battlespace • The Register .::. Size~: 23.49 KBFeb 18 04:32
cubezzzI have to admit, it's a heck of a lot fasterFeb 18 04:32
FurnaceBoy"Our addition to the DD 21 Blue Team validates the paradigm shift Microsoft has undergone over the last two years," said Willie Williamson, Programs Director, Microsoft Federal. "We now actively participate in complex solutions for many of the various military functions, including weapons systems and command and control" (our emphasis).Feb 18 04:32
cubezzzMicroSoft Federal?? what is that?Feb 18 04:33
cubezzzit sounds like it's the government :)Feb 18 04:33
FurnaceBoyhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/09/22/windows_for_warfare_more_info/Feb 18 04:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Windows for Warfare – more info on Win2k's Navy carrier gig • The Register .::. Size~: 21.44 KBFeb 18 04:33
cubezzzsurely they stopped using win2k?Feb 18 04:34
FurnaceBoyMicrosoft is working as a subcontractor with Lockheed Martin to develop the carrier's integrated warfare systems, and 'Windows for Warfare' will run a variety of systems, including communications, aircraft and weapons launchers, and ship's electronics.Feb 18 04:34
FurnaceBoyhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/07/18/us_navy_carrier_to_adopt/Feb 18 04:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure • The Register .::. Size~: 19.85 KBFeb 18 04:34
FurnaceBoyl run a variety of systems, including communications, aircraft and   ?Feb 18 04:34
FurnaceBoy                          weapons launchers, and ship's electronics.                                                                 ?Feb 18 04:34
FurnaceBoyoopsFeb 18 04:35
FurnaceBoyThe CVN 77 is being built by Newport News Shipbuilding Inc., and that name may be familiar to you. Yes, that's right, a little while back Bill Gates invested in... Newport News Shipbuilding Inc. He holds an eight per cent stake. Newport News Shipbuilding is one of only two companies in the US which are capable of building nuclear submarines, and has built ten of the last 12 aircraft carriers Feb 18 04:35
FurnaceBoycommissioned by the US navy. Feb 18 04:35
FurnaceBoyjokes are superfluous...Feb 18 04:35
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @vibgyorfilm: Good Morning tweeps. Day 2 of #ViBGYOR2010 starts today 9.00am @sangeeta nataka academi campus, thrissur. Be thereFeb 18 04:38
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] RT @vibgyorfilm: Delegate fee 4 southasia's most noticed alternate short & documentary festival is Rs100(~2.2$). Student' pass Rs50 #ViBGYORFeb 18 04:38
cubezzzwell security is important obviouslyFeb 18 04:39
cubezzzI monitor my server closelyFeb 18 04:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] Follow @vibgyorfilm & #ViBGYOR2010 for official updates from 5th ViBGYOR International Short & Documentary Festival 2010Feb 18 04:42
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] #vibgyor2010 dr.Binayak sen inagurated 5th ViBGYOR short and documentary festival yesterday. Ilina sen did it last year!..Feb 18 04:46
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #Fructose, ubiquitous sweetener, much worse than you may think; likened to eating fat http://bit.ly/ajiTwW #food #diet #health #sugar #hfcsFeb 18 04:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Dr. Joseph Mercola: Sugar May Be Bad But This Sweetener Is Far More Deadly .::. Size~: 168.77 KBFeb 18 04:54
FurnaceBoythe first security measure is avoid windows :)Feb 18 04:57
Ender2070:DFeb 18 05:05
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] #US, #China among world's largest consumers of smuggled [illegal, endangered] #wildlife species. http://bit.ly/arYkcMFeb 18 05:08
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Endangered Species on the Grill: The Black Market in Illegal Meat Flourishes in the US | Food | AlterNet .::. Size~: 115.35 KBFeb 18 05:08
Ender2070yum yumFeb 18 05:08
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] #Vibgyor2010 I met Binayaksen for first time on yesterday. :Feb 18 05:09
*Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 05:25
cubezzzread about this person:Feb 18 05:36
cubezzzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooksley_BornFeb 18 05:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Brooksley Born - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 42.23 KBFeb 18 05:36
Ender2070coolFeb 18 05:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] #ViBGYOR2010 Created a list of ViBGYOR Tweeters . Follow it http://twitter.com/anivar/vibgyorFeb 18 05:41
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitter / @anivar/ViBGYOR .::. Size~: 40.28 KBFeb 18 05:41
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] #ViBGYOR2010 Created a list of ViBGYOR Tweeters . Follow it http://twitter.com/anivar/vibgyor Plz point if i missed anyoneFeb 18 05:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitter / @anivar/ViBGYOR .::. Size~: 40.39 KBFeb 18 05:43
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*DaemonFC (~ryan@c-69-245-224-113.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 06:05
*DaemonFC smacks FurnaceBoy with an "enhancedCD"Feb 18 06:06
DaemonFCI just got back from WalleyWorld and noticed that Sony is back at itFeb 18 06:07
DaemonFCfake CDs and all thatFeb 18 06:07
*Ziomatrix has quit (Client Quit)Feb 18 06:07
DaemonFCI shall call them CancerCDsFeb 18 06:07
DaemonFChttp://forum.zomgstuff.net/showthread.php?p=208999#post208999Feb 18 06:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Mr. Hasselhoff Wants Us to Strip Naked While the Server is Undergoing Maintenance? - ZomgStuff Forum .::. Size~: 54.41 KBFeb 18 06:35
DaemonFClolFeb 18 06:35
DaemonFCtext message, Him: "So I guess I'll just go home." (misspelled though)Feb 18 07:11
DaemonFCMe: There is a high probability that you are intoxicated, and that going home would be the best course of action."Feb 18 07:11
DaemonFClolFeb 18 07:11
Ender2070http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njj9Pi1AahEFeb 18 07:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Funniest Scene EVER in kenny and spenny .::. Size~: 115.58 KBFeb 18 07:25
DaemonFCEnder2070, I think that's the first time I've ever said thatFeb 18 07:26
DaemonFCI feel good about myselfFeb 18 07:26
DaemonFC"I can't stop you from doing stupid things, but I'll have no part of it"Feb 18 07:26
DaemonFCI feel empoweredFeb 18 07:26
Ender2070You know who else felt empowered?Feb 18 07:26
DaemonFCHitlerFeb 18 07:27
Ender2070The Devil!Feb 18 07:27
Ender2070and HitlerFeb 18 07:27
DaemonFCHitler is way cooler than the devil thoughFeb 18 07:30
DaemonFCHitler really existed and was true evil in his timeFeb 18 07:30
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 07:30
cubezzzmore evil than Gates? :)Feb 18 07:32
cubezzzyeah I guess he was actuallyFeb 18 07:32
DaemonFCActually, all this started when the prince of darkness managed to trick a womanFeb 18 07:32
cubezzzbut Gates will be around to bug us for a longer period of timeFeb 18 07:32
DaemonFCI mean how hard could that have been?Feb 18 07:32
DaemonFCHe's evil incarnate.Feb 18 07:32
Ender2070nah Hitler just copied StalinFeb 18 07:32
DaemonFCShe's a woman and plotting against AdamFeb 18 07:33
cubezzzeven if Gates is less evil than Hitler doesn't mean I like him :)Feb 18 07:33
cubezzzyes but did Adam have a belly button?Feb 18 07:33
cubezzzno one asks about thatFeb 18 07:33
DaemonFCMen can't really be as deceitful as women, it's just not in us.Feb 18 07:34
DaemonFCso the devil picked her and not him because Adam, as a man, would see right through the devilFeb 18 07:34
DaemonFCThe devil probably got through to Eve through the shop at home TV channelFeb 18 07:35
DaemonFCand they had apples on fucking easy payFeb 18 07:35
cubezzzwell that explains Dahmer doesn't it? Just blame the DevilFeb 18 07:35
cubezzz"The Devil made me do it"Feb 18 07:36
DaemonFCand all of a sudden a package arrived and Adam's all like "Oh fuck, not another one, God damn it, you think I'm made of money!?!?"Feb 18 07:36
DaemonFCand Eve is all like "Try a bite honey, they said we could send it back if we don't like it!"Feb 18 07:36
DaemonFCand that's the first lie that the devil toldFeb 18 07:36
DaemonFChence, king of liesFeb 18 07:36
DaemonFCahhhFeb 18 07:49
DaemonFCEnder2070, Don't you find it funny that the DA only re-opens accusations of police misconduct 20-25 years laterFeb 18 07:49
DaemonFCwhen the officers complained about are no 90 years old or dead and they can't be in any troubleFeb 18 07:49
tessier__You guys see that city in Virginia who lost something like 800 Windows boxes?Feb 18 07:50
DaemonFChttp://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9158499/City_of_Norfolk_hit_with_code_that_takes_out_nearly_800_PCs?taxonomyId=16Feb 18 07:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  City of Norfolk hit with code that takes out nearly 800 PCs .::. Size~: 120.37 KBFeb 18 07:51
tessier__YepFeb 18 07:51
DaemonFCcoolFeb 18 07:51
DaemonFCwhat a wonderful ad for Microsoft softwareFeb 18 07:51
DaemonFCmaybe they'll do better next timeFeb 18 07:51
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DaemonFChmmm, I wonder if Ubuntu could have just put a custom Google in like Mint didFeb 18 08:14
DaemonFChttp://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20100208#featureFeb 18 08:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: DistroWatch.com: Put the fun back into computing. Use Linux, BSD. .::. Size~: 85.96 KBFeb 18 08:27
DaemonFCPC-BSD interviewFeb 18 08:27
DaemonFChttp://kerneltrap.org/OpenBSD/That_Which_We_Call_FreeFeb 18 08:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: That Which We Call Free | KernelTrap .::. Size~: 61.21 KBFeb 18 08:32
DaemonFCRMS pwned, oldieFeb 18 08:32
cubezzznoFeb 18 08:37
cubezzzthe BSD license sucksFeb 18 08:37
cubezzzhe's still right, but he expressed it wrongFeb 18 08:37
cubezzzhe probably should have said something like "OpenBSD doesn't protect your freedom"Feb 18 08:38
cubezzzthat's the whole reason why GNU exists, distinct from the BSDsFeb 18 08:38
cubezzzbut even better than that, he should probably say nothing Feb 18 08:39
cubezzzre: BSDFeb 18 08:39
cubezzzif one doesn't write code they probably don't even careFeb 18 08:41
cubezzzanyway, you got to be careful with the binary blob stuffFeb 18 08:43
cubezzze.g. I can't mod the sd reader on zaurus Feb 18 08:44
cubezzzit's a blobFeb 18 08:44
DaemonFCthe BSD license does make something "free" in RMS's own definitionFeb 18 08:48
DaemonFCRMS yet has to find a reason to bitch even though he won't go and look and see that there's no non-free stuff in OpenBSDFeb 18 08:48
DaemonFChe complains about straw men and attacks one he created in the same threadFeb 18 08:48
DaemonFC"I can't be bothered to figure out if you're doing bad things or no, so I'll say you're guilty", teally it's because it's not a GNU variant Feb 18 08:49
DaemonFC*reallyFeb 18 08:49
DaemonFCRMS would be attacking Linux right and left if they didn't depend on it for their software to do anythingFeb 18 08:49
DaemonFChe's managed to muzzle his opinions about Linux about 99% of the timeFeb 18 08:50
DaemonFChttp://phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22052Feb 18 09:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Catalyst 10.2 is out - Phoronix Forums .::. Size~: 57.7 KBFeb 18 09:06
*DaemonFC goes to snag itFeb 18 09:06
DaemonFCmaybe it supports X Server 1.7?Feb 18 09:07
DaemonFCthere's no release notesFeb 18 09:07
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DaemonFCwow, Compiz is a lot smootherFeb 18 09:12
DaemonFCmuch less tearingFeb 18 09:12
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Ender2070nouveau has 3dFeb 18 09:33
DaemonFCapparently Catalyst 10.2 still won't work on X server 1.7Feb 18 09:34
DaemonFCEnder2070, http://phoronix.com/forums/showpost.php?p=113079&postcount=41Feb 18 09:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Phoronix Forums - View Single Post -  Catalyst 10.2 is out .::. Size~: 9.42 KBFeb 18 09:36
DaemonFCbest post everFeb 18 09:36
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Ender2070ROFLFeb 18 09:47
DaemonFCFGLRX, the worst thing to come out of Canada since......The Final Sacrifice!!!!Feb 18 09:52
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgKwPrm7DYQFeb 18 09:53
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- MST3K - The Final Sacrifice: The Canada Song .::. Size~: 124.38 KBFeb 18 09:53
DaemonFCI think he got a RadeonFeb 18 09:55
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4L2lwQiAkA&feature=relatedFeb 18 09:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- MST3K - Rowsdower .::. Size~: 121.98 KBFeb 18 09:56
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOddAWrRSpE&NR=1Feb 18 09:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- ehgggg .::. Size~: 114.52 KBFeb 18 09:59
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Numc3KPZcDY&feature=relatedFeb 18 09:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Know em'?  He was delicious! .::. Size~: 121.45 KBFeb 18 09:59
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Business Software Alliance ( #BSA ) is Not Good for #FreeSoftware http://boycottnovell.com/2010/02/18/business-software-alliance-myth/Feb 18 10:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Business Software Alliance (BSA) is Not Good for Free Software | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 92.18 KBFeb 18 10:32
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Please Don’t Compare #Microsoft #Vaporware to Today’s #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/mn51 Old tricks, new names, new brandsFeb 18 10:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Please Dont Compare Microsoft Vapourware to Todays GNU/Linux | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 87.21 KBFeb 18 10:38
cubezzz'wow, there's still BSD vs Linux hateFeb 18 10:39
cubezzzlameFeb 18 10:39
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DaemonFCcubezzz, AMD ported Direct2D to LinuxFeb 18 10:40
DaemonFCit's in their new driverFeb 18 10:40
DaemonFCoff by default thoughFeb 18 10:40
cubezzzwhy would I want that?Feb 18 10:42
cubezzzthis guy is full of it, says he's been using paypal for 15 years... it was founded in 1998Feb 18 10:43
cubezzzanyways, we have SDLFeb 18 10:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Microsoft and the “Debt-Financed Balance Sheet” http://ur1.ca/mn8s Microsoft’s debt and Novell’s debt revisited2Feb 18 10:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft and the “Debt-Financed Balance Sheet” | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 88.66 KBFeb 18 10:48
oiaohmcubezzz: Its really a driver development thing.Feb 18 10:49
DaemonFCoiaohm, You mean it's used internally and not a competing APIFeb 18 10:49
DaemonFCright?Feb 18 10:49
oiaohmBy releasing Direct2d on Linux.  Linux guys can build test cases and make gaulium3d version.  Note Direct2d could be useful to wine.Feb 18 10:50
oiaohmNow question is will Nvidia release their Direct2d api on Linux as well.Feb 18 10:51
cubezzzI only use wine for the one windows program I wroteFeb 18 10:51
cubezzzand dosbox for the dos stuff Feb 18 10:51
cubezzzand the odd gameFeb 18 10:51
DaemonFCyeah, Wine only has minimal DOS supportFeb 18 10:51
DaemonFCmuch better to use dosboxFeb 18 10:51
cubezzzbut really Wine is hardly idealFeb 18 10:52
cubezzzI'd rather just port stuffFeb 18 10:52
cubezzztry to make a good job of itFeb 18 10:52
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DaemonFCGallium3d implementing DirectX could be kind of coolFeb 18 10:59
oiaohmhttp://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/02/intel-and-nokia-making-more-than-linux.ars  Some people take wild guess.  People forget intel makes x86 and arm chips.Feb 18 10:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Intel and Nokia making a mobile chip for phones, netbooks? .::. Size~: 30.08 KBFeb 18 10:59
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Steve Jobs is ‘Pulling a Gates’ http://ur1.ca/mney Steve Jobs to help glorify himself as departure may be imminentFeb 18 11:03
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Steve Jobs is Pulling a Gates | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 89.78 KBFeb 18 11:03
DaemonFChttp://toastytech.com/guis/star.htmlFeb 18 11:08
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Xerox Star .::. Size~: 11.99 KBFeb 18 11:08
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] New Blog Post: "The Clone(zilla) Wars" http://bit.ly/bBtBZy - more Mumbuntu fun!Feb 18 11:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Clone(zilla) Wars | popey.com blog .::. Size~: 30.89 KBFeb 18 11:12
DaemonFCheh, a Debian developer said on the Phoronix forum that if AMD doesn't support X Server 1.7 by next month, then they may not have support for ATI cards in Debian SqueezeFeb 18 11:19
DaemonFCmeaning the user has to install i manually :PFeb 18 11:19
oiaohmYou really don't want to do that.Feb 18 11:20
oiaohm1.7 changes a lot of low level things.Feb 18 11:20
schestowitzhttp://identi.ca/notice/22384250 "@schestowitz funny to see how people still use XP but complain about lack of innovation wrt Linux ..."Feb 18 11:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Jan Wildeboer (jwildeboer) 's status on Thursday, 18-Feb-10 10:33:40 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 8.18 KBFeb 18 11:21
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Centrify Brings Microsoft to *NIX, #RedHat Denounces the Patent Trolls... http://bit.ly/9UUZdL #acts #swpatFeb 18 11:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Patents Roundup: Centrify Brings Microsoft Patents to *NIX, Red Hat Denounces the Patent Trolls, and Google Still Endorses Software Patents | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 94.69 KBFeb 18 11:48
DaemonFChttp://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61H2F320100218?type=technologyNewsFeb 18 11:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Virus has breached 75,000 computers: study| Reuters .::. Size~: 49.07 KBFeb 18 11:55
DaemonFCapparently it's some kind of malware that can't be detected by antivirus at allFeb 18 11:56
DaemonFChttp://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/19/technology/19cyber.htmlFeb 18 11:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Malicious Software Infects Corporate Computers - NYTimes.com .::. Size~: 68.57 KBFeb 18 11:57
DaemonFCschestowitz, Naming a botnet is getting to be like naming the stars in the skyFeb 18 11:59
DaemonFCeventually there's going to be charity fundraising drives where they auction off botnet naming rights :)Feb 18 11:59
schestowitz:-DFeb 18 12:09
schestowitzIt's a John Markoff article, so neither Microsoft nor Windows are mentioned, as usual.Feb 18 12:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] UK calls in Israeli ambassador. http://is.gd/8E6jH #palestine #israel #occupationFeb 18 12:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: UK calls in Israeli ambassador as Dubai killing row escalates |World news |The Guardian .::. Size~: 72.47 KBFeb 18 12:13
oiaohmThere is already charity fund-raising drives to name botnets.  Just happens to be for the developers own favorate charity himself.Feb 18 12:13
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[satipera/@satipera] UK calls in Israeli ambassador. http://is.gd/8E6jH #palestine #israel #occupationFeb 18 12:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle: UK calls in Israeli ambassador as Dubai killing row escalates |World news |The Guardian .::. Size~: 72.52 KBFeb 18 12:17
DaemonFCoiaohm, is there ANY possible legit way for this guy to be selling Windows 7 for $5 per and MSDN accounts for $20?Feb 18 12:19
DaemonFCI'm sure there isn'tFeb 18 12:19
schestowitzDaemonFC: the US banksters are screwing usFeb 18 12:23
schestowitzhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-scheer/its-greek-to-goldman-sach_b_465134.htmlFeb 18 12:23
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Robert Scheer: It's Greek to Goldman Sachs .::. Size~: 154.36 KBFeb 18 12:23
schestowitz"As a result of such shenanigans back in 2001, Greece was allowed to join the European Union while running up enormous debt that went undetected. Greece's neighbors will now be forced to bail it out, much as U.S. taxpayers have done for banks as a result of the scams Goldman and other financial houses pulled off in this country."Feb 18 12:23
DaemonFClmaoFeb 18 12:23
schestowitzThey have now taken their corruption over here for us to bail out the crooks who enriched GoldmanFeb 18 12:23
schestowitzThis is getting ridiculous.Feb 18 12:23
DaemonFCit's funny is what it isFeb 18 12:23
DaemonFChave fun paying off their undeclared debt :)Feb 18 12:24
DaemonFCwhich was the whole purpose of rushing to try to get into the EU I'm certainFeb 18 12:24
DaemonFCschestowitz, The EU doesn't audit countries that want to join?Feb 18 12:25
schestowitzhttp://elevenislouder.blogspot.com/2010/02/opensource-operating-systems.htmlFeb 18 12:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Eleven is Louder: OpenSource Operating Systems .::. Size~: 74.59 KBFeb 18 12:25
schestowitzoops, I added sapitera to both identica and twitterFeb 18 12:25
schestowitzMess.Feb 18 12:25
schestowitzDupesFeb 18 12:25
oiaohmwhat version windows 7.  Windows starter possiable.  DaemonFCFeb 18 12:25
oiaohmNot like anyone wants Windows starterFeb 18 12:25
DaemonFCthat would work something like rushing to get married in a country that fuzes your debt together  Feb 18 12:25
DaemonFCmake someone else responsible for itFeb 18 12:26
DaemonFCoiaohm, He says UltimateFeb 18 12:26
DaemonFCwhy I don't believe himFeb 18 12:26
oiaohmYep that is nicked.Feb 18 12:26
oiaohmOr Microsoft acdemic version that should not be sold.Feb 18 12:27
schestowitzThey should give these out http://elevenislouder.blogspot.com/2010/02/opensource-operating-systems.htmlFeb 18 12:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Eleven is Louder: OpenSource Operating Systems .::. Size~: 74.59 KBFeb 18 12:27
oiaohmLot of unis hand out cheep MS accounts and Cheep copies of windows.  But they are time limited versions.Feb 18 12:27
DaemonFCoiaohm, No they aren'tFeb 18 12:29
DaemonFCthey're MAK keysFeb 18 12:29
DaemonFCsort of like OEM, the main difference being that if you swap out enough hardware, there's no way to re-activateFeb 18 12:30
oiaohmMAK keys are once activaton not a second time.Feb 18 12:30
DaemonFCand after the first activation, it'll fail if you ever do it again, so you need to do the by phone optionFeb 18 12:30
oiaohmAlso must be done inside 90 days of issue.Feb 18 12:30
DaemonFCyou can reactivate MAK Feb 18 12:30
DaemonFCjust not onlineFeb 18 12:30
oiaohmMost because ms phone staff are incompetent.Feb 18 12:31
DaemonFCoiaohm, It's automatedFeb 18 12:31
oiaohmOk so the phone system in incompetent.Feb 18 12:31
oiaohmBecause the Mak rules are activate inside 180 days of issueFeb 18 12:32
DaemonFCyou use slmgr and some argument to get it to spit out an installation ID, you read that off to the phone activation systemFeb 18 12:32
oiaohmAfter activation die.Feb 18 12:32
oiaohmIe as being able to activation again.Feb 18 12:32
DaemonFCit reads you off 26 more letters and numbers, you type that in using slmgrFeb 18 12:32
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] Twitter loves open source http://twitter.com/about/opensourceFeb 18 12:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitter / OpenSource .::. Size~: 19.78 KBFeb 18 12:32
oiaohmBut MS systems being screw balled.Feb 18 12:32
DaemonFCand Windows activatesFeb 18 12:32
oiaohmWhy should I be supprised.Feb 18 12:32
DaemonFCMAK isn't one activation, it's one activation per systemFeb 18 12:33
DaemonFClike if I get MAK x 1,000, I can activate 1,000 unique systemsFeb 18 12:33
DaemonFCand reactivate them by phone if it ever comes to thatFeb 18 12:33
DaemonFCbut they all use the same serialFeb 18 12:33
DaemonFCVLK is different, with VLK you can call Microsoft and ask them to invalidate that key if it leaks and give you another oneFeb 18 12:34
DaemonFCthen there's my favorite, KMSFeb 18 12:35
oiaohmVLK are not issued for vista or knew.  Instead only KMS and MAK.Feb 18 12:35
DaemonFCwith KMS, you have one server that can grant activation for like 180 days at a timeFeb 18 12:35
DaemonFCso you can set up the KMS server in VMWare evenFeb 18 12:35
oiaohmAnd there is a third type for Microsoft adademeic allanice.Feb 18 12:36
oiaohmWhere the student logs into account gets keys that work for the time of there enrollment.Feb 18 12:36
DaemonFCschestowitz, I've used Darwin before actuallyFeb 18 12:36
oiaohmAfter the enrollment time is up activating the key is invalidated.Feb 18 12:36
DaemonFCback when Apple was sponsoring OpenDarwin. It ran GNOME, so it was about like your typical Linux distribution in many waysFeb 18 12:37
cubezzzyeah it must really be fun dealing with all thatFeb 18 12:38
oiaohmOf course the 90 day check in plan for Windows 7 will allow those academic alliance to die faster. Feb 18 12:38
DaemonFCcubezzz, The activation? Yeah, lots of fun.Feb 18 12:38
DaemonFCthat's why Microsoft doesn't use the same type of keys for big organizationsFeb 18 12:39
DaemonFCit gives them a bigger leashFeb 18 12:39
oiaohmThinking KMS servers need windows something to run on.Feb 18 12:39
DaemonFCthe entire idea of activation is that it's not supposed to make an issue of itselfFeb 18 12:39
oiaohmYep it does.Feb 18 12:39
DaemonFCthe goal isn't to just needlessly piss off the userFeb 18 12:40
oiaohmThe goal is to try to make people pay up.Feb 18 12:40
DaemonFCthere's no point in angering every user that has to deal with it into go buying a Mac or formatting over Windows and shoving Linux on thereFeb 18 12:40
DaemonFCoiaohm, exactlyFeb 18 12:41
DaemonFCif they can keep 99% of the users unaware that it's even there, it's less of an open door for the competition to go "nyaaaaah!" "We don't bother our users with that crap!"Feb 18 12:42
oiaohmYep oem installers do most of the activations.Feb 18 12:43
DaemonFCit's in the BIOS, it's not really possible for it to come undone unless you're using the disc and serial on another PCFeb 18 12:43
oiaohmI was including white boxs in that oem installers.Feb 18 12:44
cubezzzDaemonFC> there's no point in angering every user that has to deal with it into go buying a Mac or formatting over Windows and shoving Linux on thereFeb 18 13:18
cubezzzway too lateFeb 18 13:18
cubezzzeven if Microsoft ever became "nice" it would still be closed sourceFeb 18 13:20
cubezzzit's just not interestingFeb 18 13:20
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Creating a launchpad.net account for my Mum. Will be useful later.Feb 18 13:43
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-S8RrFXiVIFeb 18 13:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Pizza Hut Salad Architecture .::. Size~: 112.81 KBFeb 18 13:48
DaemonFCI may get a take out salad for lunchFeb 18 13:49
DaemonFCthe salad bar here is way nicer Feb 18 13:49
DaemonFCbut yeah, I make it into kind of a pyramid so the box can still closeFeb 18 13:50
DaemonFCyeah speaking of creativity, when it's a $6 salad, you figure out how to "architect" it :)Feb 18 13:51
oiaohmhttp://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9158258/Most_Windows_7_PCs_max_out_memoryFeb 18 14:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Most Windows 7 PCs max out memory .::. Size~: 123.26 KBFeb 18 14:00
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DaemonFCComputer World ran this? heresy!Feb 18 14:02
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] Minority report interaction has arrived?http://bit.ly/dBiFPuFeb 18 14:02
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Minority Report Interface Is Real, Hitting Mainstream Soon (Video) | Singularity Hub .::. Size~: 45.34 KBFeb 18 14:02
DaemonFC"The 86% mark for Windows 7 is more than twice the average number of Windows XP machines that run at the memory "saturation" point, said Barth."Feb 18 14:02
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Dear Lazyweb. Anyone know the hostname for Three mobile broadband SMTP server?Feb 18 14:03
DaemonFCWhat's even more insulting is that Windows 7 bargain basement deals have at least 2 gigsFeb 18 14:03
DaemonFCMost XP systems went out with 512 MB to 1 GBFeb 18 14:03
schestowitzKnown Microsoft shill to 'try' Linux. Prepare for some trouble. http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=3793Feb 18 14:04
DaemonFC"Windows 7 machines have almost twice as much memory to work with," said Barth, "but the numbers show just how much larger and more complex Windows 7 is than XP."Feb 18 14:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: TechRepublic Blogs: For IT professionals, by IT professionals .::. Size~: 76.82 KBFeb 18 14:04
DaemonFCmore complexFeb 18 14:04
MinceRwe call that "bloated"Feb 18 14:05
DaemonFCthat's a very politically correct way to say gigantic and bloatedFeb 18 14:05
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 14:05
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schestowitzMinceR:  :-)Feb 18 14:05
DaemonFCLinux is the penguin, OS X is the big cat, Windows is the beached whaleFeb 18 14:05
DaemonFC*grin*Feb 18 14:05
MinceRthat's demeaning to catsFeb 18 14:06
schestowitzApple is being such a pussyFeb 18 14:06
DaemonFCwhat is? that there is a family of big cats?Feb 18 14:06
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 14:06
schestowitzI hope Tiger Woods sues AppleFeb 18 14:06
MinceRthat crApple calls its shit after catsFeb 18 14:07
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DaemonFChe'd have to take a moment from his sexual trysts and cocaineFeb 18 14:07
DaemonFC:PFeb 18 14:07
schestowitzMinceR: the Woods coalition of tigers should sueFeb 18 14:08
DaemonFCMinceR, Other than making mediocre software, I really don't see what the fuss isFeb 18 14:08
DaemonFCa lot of it is open source tooFeb 18 14:08
MinceRthe push for sw patents and DRM?Feb 18 14:09
DaemonFCWebkit was an oddity in that it's something that other people wantedFeb 18 14:09
schestowitz*LOL* http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8520467.stm m'Anti-terror buggy' unveiled by firm in IndiaFeb 18 14:09
phIRCe-BNcTitle: BBC NEWS | News Front Page .::. Size~: 89.52 KBFeb 18 14:09
schestowitzThis is a tiger: http://static.desktopnexus.com/wallpapers/89850-bigthumbnail.jpgFeb 18 14:09
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBFeb 18 14:09
MinceRthe fact that whenever someone comes close to me with a hypePhone, i'm in the blast radius?Feb 18 14:09
schestowitzThis is Apple's idea of a tiger: http://disney-clipart.com/winnie-the-pooh/Tigger/Disney-Tigger.jpgFeb 18 14:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBFeb 18 14:10
schestowitzIOW, it's a freakkkin' toyFeb 18 14:10
MinceRor the fact that they rip off FLOSS while badmouthing it?Feb 18 14:10
DaemonFCschestowitz, I saw a comic once that had tigger bouncing away from the tigger factory which was on fire, singing "And the most wonderful thing about tiggers is I'm the only one!!!"Feb 18 14:11
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 14:11
schestowitzThey don't, MinceRFeb 18 14:11
MinceRor that they use slaves to make their shoddy hardware?Feb 18 14:11
schestowitzApple doesn't quite badmouth it muchFeb 18 14:11
schestowitzIt just ignores and excludes itFeb 18 14:11
MinceR"not much" is too much for a company that lives off itFeb 18 14:11
DaemonFCMinceR, They use Foxconn, which every other PC maker does tooFeb 18 14:11
schestowitzLike with IToooons[sic]Feb 18 14:11
DaemonFCand video game console makerFeb 18 14:11
MinceRthat's not what wozniak saidFeb 18 14:11
MinceRDaemonFC: does foxconn make hypePods?Feb 18 14:12
DaemonFCschestowitz, Speaking of which, Walmart is out of game consoles and rationing the ones they get inFeb 18 14:12
schestowitzMinceR: I know, BUT>..Feb 18 14:12
schestowitzOn other occasions, Woz praised FOSS stuffFeb 18 14:12
schestowitzLike Droid...Feb 18 14:12
DaemonFCMinceR, Yeah, but Foxconn also makes the Zune, the Sansa, the iAudio, most generic mp3 players....Feb 18 14:12
schestowitzSort of fausopen, but still..Feb 18 14:12
MinceRmaybe he's schizophrenicFeb 18 14:12
schestowitzI don't think Woz is bad, overallFeb 18 14:13
schestowitzMinceR: Inquirer quote-miningFeb 18 14:13
DaemonFCso it's like PCs, game consoles, mp3 players, there's a higher than 90% chance you're buying from a company that uses third world slaves at foxconnFeb 18 14:13
DaemonFCand a 10% chance that you're buying from a company that uses third world slaves not at FoxconnFeb 18 14:13
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 14:13
MinceRvs. 100% with crApple?Feb 18 14:13
schestowitzMinceR: DaemonFC is rightFeb 18 14:14
schestowitzThey all use wage slavesFeb 18 14:14
schestowitzBut..Feb 18 14:14
DaemonFCMinceR, Capitalism seeks out the cheapest, most exploitable labor it can get, chases it wherever it goes, and works them to deathFeb 18 14:14
schestowitzWHat I dislike is the illusion of Apple h/w being uniqueFeb 18 14:14
DaemonFCliterally to deathFeb 18 14:14
schestowitzThat's the sticky pointFeb 18 14:14
schestowitzDaemonFC: someone from Chine whom I corresponded with this month sent me photos from CHinaFeb 18 14:15
schestowitzIt's amazingly pollutedFeb 18 14:15
DaemonFCschestowitz, The hardware isn't unique. The most obscure thing on them is that they use EFI, which you're starting to see a lot on Intel motherboards anywayFeb 18 14:15
schestowitzDaytime can seem like a cloudy day when it ain'tFeb 18 14:15
schestowitzDepends where you live thoughFeb 18 14:15
*amarsh04 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)Feb 18 14:15
schestowitzCancer is a huge killer thereFeb 18 14:15
schestowitzLung cancer... from pollutionFeb 18 14:15
MinceRthere's also the DMCA-based takedowns crApple doesFeb 18 14:16
schestowitzYet, the Yanks are being silly about it... http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/12/utah-climate-alarmistsFeb 18 14:16
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Utah delivers vote of no confidence for 'climate alarmists' |Environment |The Guardian .::. Size~: 170.91 KBFeb 18 14:16
schestowitzSee what they did there?Feb 18 14:16
MinceReven if it's mostly against their own customersFeb 18 14:16
DaemonFCI'm not real psyched about EFI, it just means diffrent bugs, different kludge for the next 20 years, more ability to fuck you over with DRM, etc.Feb 18 14:16
MinceRoh, and how could i forget when they attacked html5Feb 18 14:16
DaemonFCEFI is not a good thing.Feb 18 14:16
schestowitzThey apply the "denier" label to daemonise the tellers of science, calling them "Alarmist"Feb 18 14:16
schestowitzI guess Darwinists too can be called "alarmists"Feb 18 14:16
schestowitz"Send them to prison!!" *LOL*Feb 18 14:17
DaemonFCApple is starting to have higher hardware failure rates than the "generic PC" industryFeb 18 14:17
schestowitzIn the US, IIRC, 63% are certain about an invisible manFeb 18 14:17
MinceRstarting?Feb 18 14:17
DaemonFCthat's the funniest partFeb 18 14:17
MinceRwhen did they not have them?Feb 18 14:17
schestowitzThat's almost 2 in 3, based on a 2008/9 pollFeb 18 14:17
MinceRperhaps the apple ii-s didn't have those failure rates :>Feb 18 14:17
schestowitzSo why worry about pollution:?Feb 18 14:17
DaemonFCMinceR, The PPC Macs were a lot more reliable, as a wholeFeb 18 14:17
schestowitzI mean, Jesus comes down in less than 50 yearsFeb 18 14:17
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] It appears that smtp-mbb.three.co.uk is the 3 smtp server. Memorable. (not) Thanks to those who replied..Feb 18 14:18
DaemonFCI have a dual G4 PowerMacFeb 18 14:18
schestowitz22% believe he will come for certain within 50 years (lifetime)Feb 18 14:18
schestowitzAnother 22% (IIRC) are "pretty certain"Feb 18 14:18
DaemonFCit's not a bad piece of hardware, the weakest thing on it is the GPU reallyFeb 18 14:18
schestowitzSo no wonder Utah is being a bunch of selfish p*Feb 18 14:18
DaemonFCschestowitz, The Mormon's tried to establish their own state out of the Utah Territory which would have been three times the landFeb 18 14:19
DaemonFCCongress denied that requestFeb 18 14:19
MinceRthen there was the FUD campaign against PalmFeb 18 14:19
DaemonFC:PFeb 18 14:19
DaemonFCThe Indiana Territory used to be a lot bigger too actually, most of Ohio, all of Illinois, about half of MichiganFeb 18 14:20
MinceRand the usual 'patenting stuff they didn't invent and then suing everyone' routingFeb 18 14:21
MinceRs/g$/e/Feb 18 14:21
DaemonFCalso really swampy in most parts, dense forests, wild animalsFeb 18 14:21
DaemonFCnothing a few guns and axes can't fix I guessFeb 18 14:21
DaemonFC:DFeb 18 14:21
DaemonFCMinceR, Doesn't matter who invented itFeb 18 14:22
DaemonFCfirst one to the patent office winsFeb 18 14:22
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Copyright Undercover: #ACTA & the Web http://ur1.ca/mnusFeb 18 14:22
MinceRit does if crApple goes around dickwaving and claiming they didFeb 18 14:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Internet Evolution - The Big Report - Copyright Undercover: ACTA & the Web .::. Size~: 144.91 KBFeb 18 14:22
*Diablo-D3 (~diablo@pool-64-222-232-11.port.east.myfairpoint.net) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 14:22
MinceRalso, if they rely on sw patents while living off the work of a community that's damaged by sw patents, that's hardly honestFeb 18 14:23
DaemonFCApple latched onto MPEG-4 real good, almost impossible to use it without tripping on their patentsFeb 18 14:23
DaemonFCthey even specified the container format for .mp4Feb 18 14:23
*silentivm (~renan@unaffiliated/silentivm) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 14:23
DaemonFCYou can use AAC on Linux, but you're best off to use proprietary software to do itFeb 18 14:24
DaemonFCFAAC is crapFeb 18 14:24
DaemonFCFAAD is just fine, but it's just a decoder :)Feb 18 14:24
MinceRyeah, acquiring MPEG-4 patents and then attacking Ogg is hardly excusableFeb 18 14:26
DaemonFCNero hired all of the FAAC guys and it's pretty much dead nowFeb 18 14:26
DaemonFCNero has a Linux encoder "free for non-commercial use)Feb 18 14:27
DaemonFCthink it's also integrated into Nero LinuxFeb 18 14:27
DaemonFCyep, Nero AAC is in Nero LinuxFeb 18 14:29
schestowitzhttp://couch.io/ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13846_3-10451248-62.htmlFeb 18 14:29
DaemonFCI'm not sure if Nero owns any patents on AAC or if they're just licensing from the poolFeb 18 14:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Couchio — Professional CouchDB Support .::. Size~: 4.56 KBFeb 18 14:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: NoSQL in the real world | Software, Interrupted - CNET News .::. Size~: 92.49 KBFeb 18 14:29
schestowitz[14:19] <DaemonFC> schestowitz, The Mormon's tried to establish their own state out of the Utah Territory which would have been three times the landFeb 18 14:29
schestowitzDaemonFC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm_NY-N0hUcFeb 18 14:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Texas Sucks (Again) .::. Size~: 164.3 KBFeb 18 14:29
schestowitzOn Texas wanting to become its own countryFeb 18 14:29
DaemonFCschestowitz, No, they don'tFeb 18 14:30
DaemonFCit's illegal anywayFeb 18 14:30
schestowitzMaybe no anymoreFeb 18 14:30
schestowitzDaemonFC: Texas doesn't like law..Feb 18 14:30
DaemonFChe's a politician playing to the idiotsFeb 18 14:30
schestowitzPaul, Jones, other forms of anarchy...Feb 18 14:30
DaemonFCthe law would REQUIRE the president to mobilize the US military to force Texas to stay :PFeb 18 14:31
DaemonFCI kind of doubt the Texas National Guard would fight off the US forces :)Feb 18 14:31
DaemonFCthey'd surrender quicklyFeb 18 14:31
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] New awesome way of picking locks: http://ur1.ca/mnvcFeb 18 14:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Foil impressioning: lock-picking technique that uses the lock to form a new key Boing Boing .::. Size~: 30.79 KBFeb 18 14:32
DaemonFCno, Texas would not be able to break awayFeb 18 14:32
DaemonFCthey don't have any way of doing itFeb 18 14:33
DaemonFCeven if they declared that they were no longer a part of the United States, they would immediately be occupied and forced to stayFeb 18 14:33
DaemonFCdoing so would be stupid because they are not in a position to do itFeb 18 14:33
DaemonFCschestowitz, Rick Perry is also unpopular there and about to be forced out of office in the elections this yearFeb 18 14:34
DaemonFCRick Perry will not be the governor of Texas next yearFeb 18 14:34
DaemonFCpersonally I think it's comical and I'd like to see his replacement actually try to make good on thatFeb 18 14:35
schestowitzNeed a favour......Feb 18 14:38
schestowitzhttp://www.eclipse.org/org/elections/candidate.php?year=2010Feb 18 14:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 2010 Board Candidate: .::. Size~: 6.91 KBFeb 18 14:38
schestowitzDo you know any of the names there?Feb 18 14:38
schestowitzAre any dangerous to FOSS?Feb 18 14:38
schestowitzhttp://www.keeneview.com/2010/02/it-takes-community.html "Thinking back, probably our most important decision affecting community health was made early in the year, when we decided to dump our AGPL license in favor of Apache."Feb 18 14:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: It takes a communityif (typeof(window.attachCsiOnload) != 'undefined' && window.attachCsiOnload != null) { window.attachCsiOnload('ext_blogspot'); } | KeeneView Blog .::. Size~: 21.3 KBFeb 18 14:40
schestowitz"Although we had never gotten direct feedback that the community didn't like AGPL, we had more forum posts than we thought was healthy that asked pointed questions about our licensing. This let us know that people were confused, and if there was any doubt in our minds, the licensing debacle at Ext js convinced us that Keep-It-Simple-Stupid is the only way to go here."Feb 18 14:41
schestowitz"A UK-based Open Source company today announced a major upgrade of its award winning systems monitoring platform to meet the demands of its growing enterprise install base. Opsview Enterprise is already in use by global brands like Harvard University, Allianz and Electronic Arts." http://www.opsera.com/news/news_detail.dot?id=8319Feb 18 14:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Opsera - designs and builds enterprise open source products and solutions .::. Size~: 9.9 KBFeb 18 14:43
schestowitzAre these guys/code any good?Feb 18 14:44
schestowitzRather obscure, stillFeb 18 14:44
DaemonFCschestowitz, I've never seen Opera so preoccupied with Windows that they didn't even compile Mac and UNIX buildsFeb 18 14:45
schestowitzhttp://www.infoworld.com/d/virtualization/novell-working-kvm-hypervisor-406Feb 18 14:45
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Is Novell working on a KVM hypervisor? | Virtualization - InfoWorld .::. Size~: 69.4 KBFeb 18 14:45
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[anivar] #ViBGYOR2010 @aashiks Writes About Free Software@vibgyorfilm Ubuntu+VLC+digicam+audacity+drupal http://is.gd/8EmYsFeb 18 14:46
schestowitzDaemonFC: link/s?Feb 18 14:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: A FOSS lover's look at ViBGYOR 2010 | ViBGYOR International Short & Documentary Festival 2010 .::. Size~: 10.12 KBFeb 18 14:46
DaemonFChttp://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/Feb 18 14:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Opera Desktop Team - Desktop Team .::. Size~: 31.07 KBFeb 18 14:46
DaemonFCthere's been a few times they did thisFeb 18 14:46
DaemonFCand they aren't making RPMs or DEBs even if they do make Linux buildsFeb 18 14:46
DaemonFCthey tar themFeb 18 14:46
schestowitzYes, so...?Feb 18 14:47
schestowitzMany Opera employees use Linux as I understand itFeb 18 14:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] RT @anivar #ViBGYOR2010 @aashiks Writes About Free Software@vibgyorfilm Ubuntu+VLC+digicam+audacity+drupal http://is.gd/8EmYsFeb 18 14:48
schestowitzAnd Opera goes into PPAs when doneFeb 18 14:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: A FOSS lover's look at ViBGYOR 2010 | ViBGYOR International Short & Documentary Festival 2010 .::. Size~: 10.12 KBFeb 18 14:48
DaemonFCmeh, they just seem too busy with Windows for some reason Feb 18 14:48
*Thrae has quit (Quit: leaving)Feb 18 14:50
schestowitzDaemonFC: not newsFeb 18 14:53
schestowitzIt's their largest target audienceFeb 18 14:53
*Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 14:53
schestowitzapple's customers stick with the zooo thing or FirefoxFeb 18 14:53
DaemonFCI have to wonder why KDE is sticking to KHTML even though it's less capable than WebkitFeb 18 14:56
DaemonFCI think it's spiteFeb 18 14:56
schestowitzYesFeb 18 14:58
MinceRif it's spite, it's quite understandableFeb 18 14:59
MinceRremember that crApple wasn't willing to work with themFeb 18 14:59
DaemonFCso KHTML still has pretty much all the limitations its had for yearsFeb 18 15:00
DaemonFCit's still got rendering bugs that were worked out of Webkit more than two years ago, incompleteness, slowness, etc.Feb 18 15:01
DaemonFCit's why most distributions are trying to de-emphasize it by shipping Firefox or some webkit browserFeb 18 15:02
DaemonFCUbuntu couldn't fit Firefox on the kubuntu CD, so they linked to a stub to grab it for youFeb 18 15:02
MinceRso that's what the "Mozilla Firefox Browser Installer" is?Feb 18 15:04
MinceRi was always wondering what the deal with that wasFeb 18 15:04
DaemonFCwas that sarcastic? :)Feb 18 15:05
MinceRnopeFeb 18 15:05
DaemonFCyeah, it just grabs Firefox for you, all the parts and piecesFeb 18 15:06
DaemonFCthey package it in so many pieces that if you just tell apt to get Firefox, it will bring it in without the GTK bindings and the "branding"Feb 18 15:07
DaemonFCso you get this naked ugly thing that calls itself "A Web Browser"Feb 18 15:07
MinceRnope, that's another packageFeb 18 15:07
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: yes, china is a filthy mess. shocking. it's what happens when you have out-of-control industrialisation with NO regulation of pollution; the west caught themselves just in time and realised regulation was necessary. China doesn't care.Feb 18 15:07
MinceRabrowser or somethingFeb 18 15:07
DaemonFCnoFeb 18 15:07
MinceRi installed the firefox package via apt so i know what it is :>Feb 18 15:08
DaemonFCabrowser is just Firefox without the branding packageFeb 18 15:08
MinceRi knowFeb 18 15:08
MinceRbut it's in a separate packageFeb 18 15:08
DaemonFCif you remove the branding package, Firefox calls itself thatFeb 18 15:08
DaemonFCrightFeb 18 15:08
MinceRthe firefox package does have brandingFeb 18 15:08
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: the melamine thing is an example; and that's still going on, even though it's no longer making headlines. they don't care about poisoning their own citizens and their own country. this alone was enough reason to boycott their olympic shamFeb 18 15:08
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy, They let Hitler host the olympicsFeb 18 15:09
DaemonFCwhy not let China? :DFeb 18 15:09
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I explained why not.Feb 18 15:09
MinceRalso, i don't know what you mean by "GTK bindings"Feb 18 15:09
DaemonFCno government worries about poisoning its citizensFeb 18 15:10
MinceRafaik it's always some sort of weird partly-GTK thingFeb 18 15:10
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: wrongFeb 18 15:10
DaemonFCMinceR, Yeah, but Firefox can run without themFeb 18 15:10
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you really need to get out moreFeb 18 15:10
MinceRit renders GTK widgets but they work somewhat differentlyFeb 18 15:10
MinceR(probably due to XUL)Feb 18 15:10
MinceRDaemonFC: how does it work without them?Feb 18 15:10
DaemonFCit just, does, looks uglyFeb 18 15:10
MinceRwhat renders the widgets then?Feb 18 15:10
DaemonFCAll I remember is that it looks ugly but it works without themFeb 18 15:11
DaemonFCmust be some purely cosmetic thing to make it not look hideous on LinuxFeb 18 15:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@ebertchicago My reader Bill Mulligan tells me: "@Twitter was practically invented to inspire regrets." // bit like life, ehFeb 18 15:16
*trmanco (~trmanco@unaffiliated/trmanco) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 15:18
FurnaceBoytrmanco: bom dia!Feb 18 15:21
trmancoFurnaceBoy: ola :DFeb 18 15:21
*sebsebseb (~3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 15:26
sebsebseb Feb 18 15:27
MinceR Feb 18 15:30
DaemonFCI knew it! KGB agents!Feb 18 15:31
DaemonFCThey're using invisible ink!Feb 18 15:31
*DaemonFC hidesFeb 18 15:31
sebsebsebMinceR:  Feb 18 15:35
sebsebsebDaemonFC:  Feb 18 15:35
Diablo-D3hey schestowitzFeb 18 15:44
Diablo-D3does chris hall ring any bells?Feb 18 15:44
Diablo-D3http://adterrasperaspera.com/blog/2009/12/22/using-xfce4-on-my-debian-using-powerbook-rejecting-gnomemonoFeb 18 15:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle:   Using Xfce4 on my Debian-using Powerbook, rejecting Gnome+Mono » Ad Terras Per Aspera .::. Size~: 24.6 KBFeb 18 15:44
Diablo-D3scroll down for commentsFeb 18 15:44
MinceRsebsebseb: Feb 18 15:47
schestowitz Feb 18 15:50
*MinceR Feb 18 15:50
schestowitzDiablo-D3: Chris Hall rings no bellFeb 18 15:50
schestowitzBut Diablo-D3 rings around SaturnFeb 18 15:51
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: to accuse China of pollution if like accusing your hard-working housemaid of smelling bad and making the house less pleasantFeb 18 15:52
MinceRhttp://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/showing_children_gods_love_wit.phpFeb 18 15:53
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Showing children God&rsquo;s love&hellip; with a rubber hose! : Pharyngula .::. Size~: 165.95 KBFeb 18 15:53
schestowitzTell that to U-tah!Feb 18 15:53
MinceRafaik china really takes very little efforts (if any) to reduce their pollutionFeb 18 15:53
schestowitzHeh. Diablo-D3 obstructs takeover of Linux by BallmerFeb 18 15:56
schestowitzMinceR: what can they do?Feb 18 15:56
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@mikemadden Rubio "This is the only place in the world where u can open a small business in a spare bedroom in your home" // complete B.S.Feb 18 15:59
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: they could regulate.Feb 18 15:59
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: they are ignoring the issueFeb 18 16:00
*gargoyle-grin (~randerson@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 16:00
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: that is a failing strategyFeb 18 16:00
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: China is a portrait of the West with environmental movement and environmental regulation subtractedFeb 18 16:01
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: and the West is the long-term enabler of thatFeb 18 16:01
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: most specifically, they are exporting at a fraction of the true cost of productionFeb 18 16:02
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: the most basic definition of unsustainabilityFeb 18 16:02
FurnaceBoyusing non-renewable materials, to produce a product too cheaply and with toxic sideeffects, to be sold too cheaply by unsustainable supply chains, to countries that should be building it themselves. Schumacher is spinning in his grave.Feb 18 16:04
MinceRmeanwhile they kill their own people and destroying their own landFeb 18 16:05
MinceRs/kill/are killing/Feb 18 16:05
FurnaceBoyyes. because they're not dealing with that part of the equation.Feb 18 16:05
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy, Short of repealing the minimum wage and agreeing to work unpaid overtime and 18 hour days like the Chinese do, those jobs are never coming backFeb 18 16:05
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 16:05
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: that's your problemFeb 18 16:06
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: stop buying CHinese, the jobs will returnFeb 18 16:06
DaemonFCyeah, not going to happenFeb 18 16:06
FurnaceBoygood for youFeb 18 16:06
MinceRwhen the chinese die out, they willFeb 18 16:06
FurnaceBoyMinceR: what happens in China affects all of usFeb 18 16:06
MinceRor when they get a clueFeb 18 16:06
FurnaceBoyMinceR: one biosphere :|Feb 18 16:06
DaemonFCMinceR, all 47 billion of them?Feb 18 16:06
FurnaceBoyMinceR: well, to echo DaemonFC, I can't see that happeningFeb 18 16:06
MinceRDaemonFC: more likely only the cheap workforceFeb 18 16:07
MinceRthat's being considered disposableFeb 18 16:07
DaemonFCIt's not like Canada is going to thrive on oil and timber foreverFeb 18 16:07
DaemonFCa lot of them sure act like it'll never endFeb 18 16:08
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: of courseFeb 18 16:08
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: this is simple common senseFeb 18 16:08
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: no economy based on non-renewables is sustainableFeb 18 16:09
DaemonFCyou'll sure do enough destruction to tap into those oil sands going after it thoughFeb 18 16:09
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: and the oil sands is an environmental catastrophe almost worthy of ChinaFeb 18 16:09
MinceRtimber is renewableFeb 18 16:09
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I am well awareFeb 18 16:09
DaemonFCboth in terms of lives lost and to the environmentFeb 18 16:09
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: yes, of course the oil sands is a disasterFeb 18 16:10
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: but it's 0.01% what China is doing, enabled by the WestFeb 18 16:10
DaemonFCyeah, the US isn't all of that problem though, not by a long shotFeb 18 16:10
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: nobody said they areFeb 18 16:11
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: just most of itFeb 18 16:11
MinceRand yes, what china is doing can kill the rest of us, if only slowerFeb 18 16:11
schestowitzBut you like your wince phoneFeb 18 16:11
DaemonFChttp://internationaltrade.suite101.com/article.cfm/chinas_top_trading_partnersFeb 18 16:11
FurnaceBoyMinceR: check out Burtynsky's film "Manufactured Landscapes" for a tiny glimpseFeb 18 16:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: China's Top Trading Partners: Chinese Exports & Imports Soar .::. Size~: 41.82 KBFeb 18 16:11
DaemonFChmmm, old numbersFeb 18 16:12
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: stop being defensive. the US is not the only buyer, just one of the biggest.Feb 18 16:12
DaemonFChttp://english.mofcom.gov.cn/aarticle/statistic/ie/200807/20080705642998.htmlFeb 18 16:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ministry of Commerce of the People's Republic of China .::. Size~: 51.2 KBFeb 18 16:12
DaemonFCthe EU is buying more Chinese crap than us, lolFeb 18 16:12
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67j7JlEZzpQFeb 18 16:12
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: Chinese products are a problem everywhere, but, here's a fact you probably don't know: Much less in countries like Brazil, who have a robust domestic manufacturing industry and inexpensive labourFeb 18 16:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Manufactured Landscapes .::. Size~: 112.51 KBFeb 18 16:12
DaemonFCso there! :)Feb 18 16:12
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: irrelevantFeb 18 16:12
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: fix your problemsFeb 18 16:13
DaemonFCmmhm, funding China to ramp up their military expansionFeb 18 16:14
FurnaceBoyyeah, brilliant, ehFeb 18 16:14
FurnaceBoyfor short term profit by leeches like Wal-martFeb 18 16:14
MinceRDaemonFC: you didn't sign the Kyoto protocolFeb 18 16:14
MinceRso shut upFeb 18 16:14
DaemonFCyou're going to beg to have us back when they're through with youFeb 18 16:14
MinceRand get a clueFeb 18 16:14
DaemonFCMinceR, 1. It was signed. :)Feb 18 16:14
DaemonFC2. Fuck it.Feb 18 16:14
FurnaceBoyMinceR: the US skips most UN conventionsFeb 18 16:14
DaemonFCrightly soFeb 18 16:14
FurnaceBoyoh boy.Feb 18 16:14
DaemonFCthe UN is not something we should be a part of anywayFeb 18 16:15
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: the planet isn't something you should be a part of, then.Feb 18 16:15
MinceRDaemonFC: no, you fuck it.Feb 18 16:15
MinceR+1Feb 18 16:15
DaemonFCHow's about that Oil For Food program?Feb 18 16:15
DaemonFCCoffee at noonFeb 18 16:15
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 16:15
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: this isn't subject to debate. the USA is not exceptional. Feb 18 16:15
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: learn to get alongFeb 18 16:16
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: learn to follow civilised conventionsFeb 18 16:16
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: stop killingFeb 18 16:16
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: stop torturingFeb 18 16:16
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: etcFeb 18 16:16
DaemonFCwhen other countries do worse, it gets ignoredFeb 18 16:17
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: fix *your own* problemsFeb 18 16:17
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] RD: @rahulsundaram: Set Your Desktop Free, With Nouveau’s 3D http://is.gd/8EeCCFeb 18 16:17
phIRCe-BNcTitle:    Set Your Desktop Free, With Nouveaus 3D |   Linux Magazine .::. Size~: 45.16 KBFeb 18 16:17
DaemonFCCanada participated in the "torture"Feb 18 16:17
DaemonFCas did the UkFeb 18 16:17
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I am well awareFeb 18 16:17
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I am well aware of that tooFeb 18 16:17
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: quit using "but other people can be bad too!" as a shield to avoid facing your own problemsFeb 18 16:19
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy, I'll bet you anything that your government would fork you over if we asked them toFeb 18 16:19
DaemonFCwithout any proof that you did anythingFeb 18 16:19
FurnaceBoyhalf the problem with the USA is they are psychologically unable to face realityFeb 18 16:19
DaemonFCwhy is that?Feb 18 16:19
MinceRmust be the m$ corporate cultureFeb 18 16:19
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: I am well aware of thatFeb 18 16:20
MinceR"equally evil" and all that bullshitFeb 18 16:20
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you don't have a problem with that , because you believe the USA is exceptional and deserves the role of global sheriffFeb 18 16:20
DaemonFCyou can't be a part of something and only blame the other participantsFeb 18 16:20
DaemonFCfix YOUR problemsFeb 18 16:20
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: however, some of us do not find extraordinary rendition acceptableFeb 18 16:20
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: eh?Feb 18 16:20
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: quit using "but other people can be bad too!" as a shield to avoid facing your own problemsFeb 18 16:21
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: Americans put most energy of all into denialFeb 18 16:21
MinceRDaemonFC: back at youFeb 18 16:21
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: "please don't make us change! we don't want to change! particularly our beliefs about ourselves. let us cling to them"Feb 18 16:21
DaemonFCit doesn't take any energy to not careFeb 18 16:21
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: be apathetic then. that's what I see you doing. Avoidance.Feb 18 16:22
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: I'll watch this programme tonight.. taFeb 18 16:22
FurnaceBoyAvoidance and denial.Feb 18 16:22
MinceRdenial does take energyFeb 18 16:22
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: npFeb 18 16:22
MinceRyour defense of jesusland right now takes energy, too :>Feb 18 16:22
DaemonFCnot defending anythingFeb 18 16:22
FurnaceBoyyes, you are defensive; and your strategy is to avoid looking at the reality of US behaviourFeb 18 16:23
MinceRdenial of denial, now?Feb 18 16:23
DaemonFChe wants to say our system is broken and his system is spotless and bulletproofFeb 18 16:23
FurnaceBoyyou even put " around tortureFeb 18 16:23
FurnaceBoybecause you don't want to admit the USA torturesFeb 18 16:23
FurnaceBoyand kidnapsFeb 18 16:23
DaemonFCcan't criticize Canada for turning over their own citizens to be torturedFeb 18 16:23
DaemonFCthat's not ethically questionable at allFeb 18 16:23
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you'd prefer to talk about Canada than your own countryFeb 18 16:23
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you don't want to face the truthFeb 18 16:23
schestowitzHe does the same to me.. with the UKFeb 18 16:23
schestowitzAversionFeb 18 16:24
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: Canada turned Arar over TO THE USA. get it?Feb 18 16:24
DaemonFCso?Feb 18 16:24
DaemonFCCanada did do itFeb 18 16:24
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: did what?Feb 18 16:24
FurnaceBoyI know what they did. I've studied many of these cases.Feb 18 16:24
DaemonFCmade the "torture" possible by assistingFeb 18 16:24
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you'd rather talk about Canada than deal with the fact that the USA torturesFeb 18 16:24
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: look at your pathetic " around tortureFeb 18 16:24
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you ignoramusFeb 18 16:25
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you read nothing, you study nothingFeb 18 16:25
DaemonFCI don't care. I'm not the one with the problem about that.Feb 18 16:25
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you are in total denialFeb 18 16:25
DaemonFCI jsut find it amusing that you put 100% of the blame where only half of it goesFeb 18 16:25
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: liarFeb 18 16:25
*FurnaceBoy (~FurnaceBo@bas1-toronto10-1279559654.dsl.bell.ca) has left #boycottnovell ("better things to do than debate American idiots in denial")Feb 18 16:25
DaemonFCif there is ever a war crimes court that gets put together to investigate this, I wonder how many Canadian politicians it'll charge over handing people over while fully aware what would happen to themFeb 18 16:26
DaemonFCthey were "complicit"Feb 18 16:27
DaemonFCword of the dayFeb 18 16:27
DaemonFCall too eager to helpFeb 18 16:27
MinceRi wonder if they'll find those politicians guilty while no usians guiltyFeb 18 16:27
MinceRlike that will happenFeb 18 16:27
DaemonFCthere won't be one, MinceR, because all the countries responsible would be the ones that are in charge of putting these courts togetherFeb 18 16:28
DaemonFCand it's not just the USFeb 18 16:28
DaemonFCthe UK would avoid bringing the issue upFeb 18 16:28
DaemonFCAustralia would avoid itFeb 18 16:28
DaemonFCCanada would avoid itFeb 18 16:28
DaemonFClots moreFeb 18 16:28
DaemonFCso there goes your courtFeb 18 16:28
MinceR_my_ court?Feb 18 16:29
DaemonFCHungary should put together a court to try politicians from at least half a dozen major countriesFeb 18 16:29
DaemonFCyou know, universal jurisdiction and all thatFeb 18 16:29
MinceRour state is in the pocket of your megacorpsFeb 18 16:30
MinceRthey'll never do anythingFeb 18 16:30
DaemonFClike what Spain is trying to do and can't get doneFeb 18 16:30
MinceRbut i see your point, you're trying to say "might makes right"Feb 18 16:31
DaemonFCnoFeb 18 16:31
DaemonFCmight means "Don't piss off that guy over there or he'll break every bone in your body even if he is wrong, and all his friends will join in"Feb 18 16:32
DaemonFCsomething like thatFeb 18 16:32
DaemonFCat some point, it ceases to be important who is right or wrongFeb 18 16:32
MinceRthat's a convenient thing to believe for the guy who's wrongFeb 18 16:33
MinceRalso, you seem to think that every country is a unified entity, which it isn'tFeb 18 16:33
DaemonFCall you're negotiating for is to get out of the bar in one pieceFeb 18 16:33
DaemonFCnot end up as a quivering pile of gooFeb 18 16:33
MinceRand that of course makes everything acceptableFeb 18 16:33
DaemonFCThey can all agree to mindlessly hate the USFeb 18 16:34
DaemonFCand everyone in itFeb 18 16:34
DaemonFCmaybe not about anything else though Feb 18 16:34
MinceRit doesn't matter how much an asshole your people are, as long as nobody dares call them on itFeb 18 16:34
MinceRwho cares if they turn the world they live in into hell?Feb 18 16:34
MinceReven if also for themselves because they couldn't be bothered to plan beyond 5 years?Feb 18 16:34
DaemonFCprojected angerFeb 18 16:34
MinceRfunny to see you say thatFeb 18 16:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Here is an excellent video about where extraction happens (Manufactured Landscapes) < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67j7JlEZzpQ >Feb 18 16:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Manufactured Landscapes .::. Size~: 112.32 KBFeb 18 16:35
MinceRthe main (or should i say only) xenophobe of the channelFeb 18 16:35
MinceRgoing on at length every day about just how everyone who isn't usian sucksFeb 18 16:36
DaemonFCnot reallyFeb 18 16:36
DaemonFCI don't see in influx of Hungarians that refuse to work and want to strip mine the welfare systemFeb 18 16:36
DaemonFCtherefore I don't say "Oh those god damned Hungarians, not another one! Can't go anywhere or they'll tell me I have to learn Hungarian!"Feb 18 16:37
DaemonFC:DFeb 18 16:37
DaemonFCno, Hungarians are not this particular problemFeb 18 16:37
DaemonFCMexicans areFeb 18 16:37
MinceRjust everyone who isn't usian and you have a vague idea of where they liveFeb 18 16:38
DaemonFCif I was just complaining about Hungarians out of the blue, non-stop, where Hungarians never did anything to ruin where I live...Feb 18 16:38
DaemonFCthat would be projected angerFeb 18 16:38
DaemonFCcomplaining about the very real problem presented by illegal Mexicans is not projected angerFeb 18 16:38
DaemonFCI watched, let me say that again.... I WATCHED a judge let a Mexican go jsut cause he was a MexicanFeb 18 16:39
DaemonFCjust walked right outFeb 18 16:39
MinceRoh, so if _you_ decide that a problem is real then it's not projected angerFeb 18 16:39
DaemonFCgave him a slap on the wrist, some counseling that he'll never show up forFeb 18 16:39
MinceRand if _you_ decide that a problem isn't real then it's projected angerFeb 18 16:40
DaemonFCnot even any god damned court costsFeb 18 16:40
MinceRyou'd better put your name on that term so that everyone knows that it's defined in terms of youFeb 18 16:40
DaemonFCI'd have to be fucking that judge to get a deal like thatFeb 18 16:40
MinceRlike so: DaemonFC(r) Projected Anger(tm)Feb 18 16:40
DaemonFCso I know it's jsut cause he was MedicanFeb 18 16:40
DaemonFC*MexicanFeb 18 16:40
DaemonFCthe legal system is just one giant assembly line, and whenever they get someone in there that the law has deemed "special", they let them goFeb 18 16:41
DaemonFChe didn't savagely murder and skull fuck someone, so he wasn't properly punishedFeb 18 16:42
DaemonFCnot news I guessFeb 18 16:42
MinceRnot at allFeb 18 16:42
MinceRm$ got that treatment tooFeb 18 16:42
MinceRand not just in jesuslandFeb 18 16:42
DaemonFCMinceR, They made me pay court costs, they made me pay $400 to go into a counseling program, they made me pay another $20 a session to go to the "group therapy", the counselors are such aging hippie liberal douchebags that I was seriously thinking about asking to go to jail after a few of those sessionsFeb 18 16:44
DaemonFCand they made me drive 30 miles to go to each one (bonus)Feb 18 16:44
DaemonFCand I had done less than the Mexican they let walk free that was in front of me the entire timeFeb 18 16:44
DaemonFCyou better damned well believe I was madFeb 18 16:45
schestowitz[16:33] <MinceR> that's a convenient thing to believe for the guy who's wrongFeb 18 16:45
schestowitzJust because you fight evil doesn't make you goodFeb 18 16:45
schestowitzYou can both be "evil"Feb 18 16:45
MinceRi knowFeb 18 16:45
DaemonFCMinceR, The funny thing is that "counseling" program is free if I want to go backFeb 18 16:45
*DaemonFC pukesFeb 18 16:45
DaemonFCif I ever need to become bulimic, I'll take them up on that and bring my own trash canFeb 18 16:46
DaemonFCMinceR, It wasn't all for nothing though, I've been single for nearly two yearsFeb 18 16:47
DaemonFCI've decided that I don't need anyone bringing more trouble INTO my lifeFeb 18 16:47
DaemonFCthat's what I learnedFeb 18 16:47
DaemonFCIt's almost comical sometimes, you know, people. Text messaging me and saying "Hey come to the bar and get drunk!!!" or somethingFeb 18 16:48
DaemonFCI texted back "Are you posting bail tomorrow morning" cause of course the cops are sitting right outside until people (drunk) start trying to drive awayFeb 18 16:49
DaemonFCso some of them get arrested every week, and a lot of them stagger across town drunkFeb 18 16:50
DaemonFCthat's a good example of failing to learn a lesson, and they're not ME so there aren't any consequences for what they doFeb 18 16:50
DaemonFCso they do it every weekFeb 18 16:50
Ender2070who is this arguss guy?Feb 18 16:50
DaemonFCThat may be why my perception of the world is so skewed, because in my sphere of observance, there are no consequences for any actions if you're not me, and if you are me, the cell doors slam shut faster than you can say "first beer"Feb 18 16:53
MinceRthat sounds a lot like my perceptionsFeb 18 16:53
Ender2070you know what would fix the US economy?Feb 18 16:54
DaemonFCJust once I'd like to get away with something, anything. So you'll forgive me, MinceR, if I don't shed a tear for a guy that was trying to blow up buildings.Feb 18 16:54
Ender2070right away, remove ms's tax breaksFeb 18 16:54
MinceREnder2070: that would go a long wayFeb 18 16:54
Ender2070they pay less than 1% tax on their earningsFeb 18 16:54
DaemonFCEnder2070, They'd start running anti-Obama commercials showing how he's "exploited working families to death" with the tax code, and that he's actually the second Hitler (worth repeating)Feb 18 16:55
Ender2070yeahFeb 18 16:55
Ender2070then they might say he got his birth certificate made for himFeb 18 16:55
DaemonFCthe big corporations have a war chest to "assassinate" the character of any politician that inconveniences themFeb 18 16:56
DaemonFCmakes them unelectable the next timeFeb 18 16:56
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Proof at least some Christians are God hating ignorant fucks http://ur1.ca/modf #douchebagFeb 18 16:57
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Adobe is pretty fucked when #Flash is the punchline for a joke http://ur1.ca/modqFeb 18 16:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Showing children God&rsquo;s love&hellip; with a rubber hose! : Pharyngula .::. Size~: 180.04 KBFeb 18 16:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: ActiveDen .::. Size~: 316.79 KBFeb 18 16:57
DaemonFCthe only thing the corporations hate about our election system is that it costs so much to distract voters and make them think they have choicesFeb 18 16:57
Ender2070lol bill hicks made a joke that all the industrialists have a meeting immediately with every new president. when he arrives they show him a video of the JFK assassination from an angle nobody has seen before.Feb 18 16:57
DaemonFCthe Grassy Noll?Feb 18 16:58
DaemonFC:DFeb 18 16:58
Ender2070lol yeahFeb 18 16:58
MinceRthe Grassy GnollFeb 18 16:59
DaemonFCEnder2070, MinceR I was disturbed at Walmart earlierFeb 18 17:02
DaemonFCover by the scented candles, where those relaxation and workout CDs areFeb 18 17:02
DaemonFCsome jackass had sampled "Harder, Better, Faster" by Daft Punk and was rapping to itFeb 18 17:03
MinceRwhat was the disturbing part?Feb 18 17:03
DaemonFCthat was the most horrible thing I've ever heardFeb 18 17:03
DaemonFCso horrible that I had to stand there and listen to itFeb 18 17:04
Ender2070why didn't you walk awayFeb 18 17:04
DaemonFCI....couldn'tFeb 18 17:04
Ender2070thats your own fault thenFeb 18 17:06
DaemonFCI ended up unplugging it so I could walk awayFeb 18 17:08
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Kris Sowersby=@klimtypefoundry if u want to know more: interview http://bit.ly/aizWon #typographyFeb 18 17:11
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Type Faces, an interview with type designer Kris Sowersby | i love typography, the typography and fonts blog .::. Size~: 107.37 KBFeb 18 17:11
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Potjandorie, Julian heeft me toch weer zo gek gekregen om Windows XP tijdelijk op mijn oude Dell Optiplex GX240 te installeren...Feb 18 17:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] ... een actie van onconditionele liefde :-/Feb 18 17:31
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Taibbi: "Goldman Raped The Taxpayer, And Raped Their Clients" http://ur1.ca/mohlFeb 18 17:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Taibbi: "Goldman Raped The Taxpayer, And Raped Their Clients" | zero hedge .::. Size~: 174.51 KBFeb 18 17:32
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG8XqBdyMv8Feb 18 17:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Babylon 5 - 4.08 'The Illusion of Truth': Ivanova + Sheridan .::. Size~: 114.18 KBFeb 18 17:32
DaemonFCB-)Feb 18 17:32
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] New Blog Post: "Geekbox" http://bit.ly/dlSgCN :) @fabshFeb 18 17:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Geekbox | popey.com blog .::. Size~: 21.65 KBFeb 18 17:35
DaemonFChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR6wHU8wWfk&NR=1Feb 18 17:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Babylon 5 - 3.05 'Voices of Authority': Ivanova and Sheridan .::. Size~: 112.05 KBFeb 18 17:35
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DaemonFC"I've always thought that a good leader should have a strong chin, this guy has no chin, and his vice president has several. This it me is not a good combination." -Ivanova :)Feb 18 17:40
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c0wb0yl3g3ndis there anything anyone would want to see created in the network security world?Feb 18 17:47
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*DaemonFC secretely replaced Ender2070's operating system with Windows Vista. Let's see if he noticed.Feb 18 17:56
DaemonFCB-)Feb 18 17:56
MinceRdoes it call itself "mojave"?Feb 18 17:57
DaemonFCMinceR, Yeah, and I put Mojave Defender on there too so he never gets pwned by spyware again :DFeb 18 17:58
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MinceR:>Feb 18 17:58
MinceRlike that?Feb 18 17:58
DaemonFCuhhhm, yeah, he probably just plugged in a USB wifi antennaFeb 18 17:59
DaemonFCdon't worry, he'll be back in a few minutesFeb 18 17:59
MinceRactually his other connection arrived before that one droppedFeb 18 17:59
MinceRi just didn't realize immediatelyFeb 18 17:59
*Guest20490 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Feb 18 18:00
DaemonFCshouldn't people be asking themselves why getting pwned with spyware happens just as much on Vista/7 as XP even with Windows Defender?Feb 18 18:00
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 18:00
DaemonFCI mean, you'd expect it to at least reduce the occurrences of pwnageFeb 18 18:01
DaemonFCI don't know what it does really besides stand there and swallow your system resourcesFeb 18 18:02
MinceRthey just tell themselves it happens lessFeb 18 18:03
MinceRor they believe the advertisementFeb 18 18:03
DaemonFCthe only thing I've ever seen it catch was the EICAR test virusFeb 18 18:04
DaemonFChttp://itsyourpc.org/duane/files/spyware.jpgFeb 18 18:05
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBFeb 18 18:05
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Ancient mysteries: why #GNOME sometimes starts with ugly (#windows-type) font rasterisation settings;even tho Appearance specifies otherwiseFeb 18 18:07
DaemonFChttp://img.bleepingcomputer.com/swr-guides/s/spyware-protect-2009/spyware-alert.jpgFeb 18 18:07
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBFeb 18 18:07
DaemonFCfake antispywareFeb 18 18:07
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @saintpaul007 Bank of America Forecloses on Home with No Mortgage http://bit.ly/bGBpjQ // Hey America, Angry Yet? #usaFeb 18 18:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Bank of America Forecloses on Home with No Mortgage | Disinformation .::. Size~: 23.97 KBFeb 18 18:10
*FurnaceBoy (~FurnaceBo@bas1-toronto10-1279559654.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 18:11
FurnaceBoyrnb: http://twitter.com/mparent77772/status/9293992701Feb 18 18:12
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitter / Marc Parent: Pentagon Bracing for a Sna ... .::. Size~: 9.93 KBFeb 18 18:12
FurnaceBoyrnb: also, ping! want to talk to you about an opportunity ~ SPFeb 18 18:12
DaemonFCYeah, it's frightening to have a bank account evenFeb 18 18:14
DaemonFCthe government can levy it and you aren't notifiedFeb 18 18:15
DaemonFCthe bank can fuck up and drain the accountFeb 18 18:15
DaemonFCthe account I was paying my rent into had all the money stolen by a woman that used to work in the landlords officeFeb 18 18:16
DaemonFCshe put her name on the account and he signed off on it real quick thinking that it was just some other paperwork she handed himFeb 18 18:16
DaemonFCI had kept all my receipts though, so he ended up eating like a months worth of rent from all three tenantsFeb 18 18:17
FurnaceBoyThis video contains content from bbc, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.Feb 18 18:19
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DaemonFCFurnaceBoy, TOR or FoxyProxy might workFeb 18 18:39
*_goblin (~goblin@94-193-188-104.zone7.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 18:41
_goblinhi all!Feb 18 18:42
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sebsebsebwell I was k-lined for a few seconds or soFeb 18 18:47
sebsebsebsince some sort of  Freenode errorFeb 18 18:47
sebsebsebthen an issue trying to get back on with this name as wellFeb 18 18:47
sebsebseband all, because I had joined a channel and it thought I was sending spam, when I wasn'tFeb 18 18:48
DaemonFCFreenode is having some gas latelyFeb 18 18:49
sebsebsebDaemonFC: I joined the Spannish Ubuntu channel,  to find out how many people were in there and then bangFeb 18 18:49
DaemonFCthe local Ubuntu channels tend to be a joke, sebsebseb Feb 18 18:50
MinceRso seems to be the global oneFeb 18 18:50
DaemonFCthere's plenty of people in the US room, but never more than 5-6 in the Indiana oneFeb 18 18:50
DaemonFCconsidering that Indiana has more people living here than some small countries, I would expect moreFeb 18 18:51
*jweyrich (~none@201-66-221-182.nhoce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 18:51
FurnaceBoy#ubuntu on freenode was the largest channel, when i checked ~ a year agoFeb 18 18:52
sebsebsebDaemonFC: I don't like the UK one muchFeb 18 18:52
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: maybe #ubuntu-in-those-small-countries doesn't manage much eitherFeb 18 18:52
DaemonFC#ubuntu-us-inFeb 18 18:52
DaemonFC8 peopleFeb 18 18:52
DaemonFChehFeb 18 18:52
sebsebsebDaemonFC: and I am half SwedishFeb 18 18:53
*trmanco has quit (Quit: Ooops!!)Feb 18 18:53
sebsebseb,but my typing sucksFeb 18 18:53
DaemonFC2 are the same people, 1 is a botFeb 18 18:53
sebsebsebspeaking a bit of  English doesn't go  well as a result, in the Swedish channelFeb 18 18:53
DaemonFCsebsebseb, So can you translate the Swedish Chef song into Spanish?Feb 18 18:53
DaemonFClolFeb 18 18:53
sebsebsebplus the Ubuntu Swedish channel is apparantly meant to only be for people who actsualley live in SwedenFeb 18 18:53
sebsebsebDaemonFC: I don't know SpannishFeb 18 18:53
DaemonFCahhhFeb 18 18:54
sebsebsebjust #ubuntu is getting loads of people who speak SpannishFeb 18 18:54
DaemonFCsebsebseb, Not surprisingFeb 18 18:54
sebsebseband I thought I would join the channel to see how many people were in it, and then bangFeb 18 18:54
Ender2070_http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=52080Feb 18 18:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: CNSNews.com - Top Obama Adviser Urged a ‘World of Zero Net Physical Growth’ in 1995 World Bank Publication .::. Size~: 62.28 KBFeb 18 18:54
DaemonFCit's free and Mexico is a third world country that speaks SpanishFeb 18 18:54
DaemonFCnot hard to figure that one outFeb 18 18:54
sebsebsebDaemonFC: not just MexicoFeb 18 18:54
sebsebseball of South AmericaFeb 18 18:54
Ender2070_http://www-wds.worldbank.org/servlet/main?menuPK=64187510&pagePK=64193027&piPK=64187937&theSitePK=523679&entityID=000009265_3961219103404Feb 18 18:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBFeb 18 18:54
sebsebsebis Spannish speaking counteriesFeb 18 18:54
sebsebsebexcept for BrazilFeb 18 18:54
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: not BrazilFeb 18 18:54
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: :)Feb 18 18:54
MinceRwell, at least they know the concept of freedom in "third world countries"Feb 18 18:55
MinceReven if they don't in jesuslandFeb 18 18:55
DaemonFCMinceR, Not really, they're just brokeFeb 18 18:55
sebsebsebMinceR: uh?Feb 18 18:55
DaemonFCand Windows Starter is an insult even to themFeb 18 18:55
DaemonFC:DFeb 18 18:55
FurnaceBoyMinceR: it's a stretch to call Mexico 3rd world, let alone South America -- especially by an USAlien hahahaFeb 18 18:55
sebsebsebSouth American and that have many pirated versions of WindowsFeb 18 18:55
sebsebsebwith malware in them as wellFeb 18 18:55
MinceRDaemonFC: yeah, one must be _broke_ to not want to use winblows. what was i thinking?Feb 18 18:55
MinceRFurnaceBoy: DaemonFC called them a third world country, not me. that's why the quotes are there. :>Feb 18 18:55
sebsebsebMinceR: yeah these free as in price OS's are better than Windows :DFeb 18 18:55
FurnaceBoyMinceR: yes I knowFeb 18 18:56
sebsebsebexcept for people who want to run silly software or silly hardware of courseFeb 18 18:56
FurnaceBoyMinceR: it's consistent with his general level of cluelessness about the rest of the worldFeb 18 18:56
MinceRindeedFeb 18 18:56
sebsebsebyes Adobe Photoshop for example is silly softwareFeb 18 18:56
sebsebsebyes it's silly, even though that's what loads of pro graphics designers useFeb 18 18:56
Ender2070_http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Economy/story?id=7452561Feb 18 18:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Food Stamps Create Jobs… in India - ABC News .::. Size~: 66.43 KBFeb 18 18:56
DaemonFCfree is the right price when you make about $7 US for a 10 hour workdayFeb 18 18:56
MinceRi'm not sure if it's silly, but it sucks for sureFeb 18 18:56
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: well, it is overpriced. and it suffers from the monopoly effect, for nowFeb 18 18:56
DaemonFCtand that's a good job thereFeb 18 18:56
sebsebsebsilly as in non cross platform software :D in this contextFeb 18 18:57
DaemonFCnot $7 an hour, $7 for 10 hoursFeb 18 18:57
*FurnaceBoy has used Photoshop professionally since 0.8x betasFeb 18 18:57
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: not cross-platform? :)Feb 18 18:57
sebsebsebalso Adobe is propritary software screw themFeb 18 18:57
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: well no Desktop Linux versionFeb 18 18:57
FurnaceBoyit's only a matter of timeFeb 18 18:57
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yes, that's a ridiculous situation, but Adobe will port it eventually.Feb 18 18:57
DaemonFCMinceR, Mexico is only third world for the poor, which happen to make up over 90% of the populationFeb 18 18:57
sebsebsebso yeah not cross  platofrm,  in this context, cross platform means  native,  Windows, Desktop Linux, and Mac OS X, versionsFeb 18 18:57
MinceRor notFeb 18 18:57
DaemonFCthe rich tend to be obscenely richFeb 18 18:57
MinceRapparently adobe prefers whining to portingFeb 18 18:57
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: poverty is rife in the usa. Feb 18 18:57
DaemonFCand the rich have privatized servicesFeb 18 18:58
MinceRDaemonFC: that's not how that expression worksFeb 18 18:58
MinceRs/expression/term/Feb 18 18:58
sebsebseband most photoshop users home users anyway, have it pirated, probablyFeb 18 18:58
DaemonFCsebsebseb, And don't even need itFeb 18 18:58
sebsebsebyep and don't even need itFeb 18 18:58
DaemonFCPhotoshop is overkill for most peopleFeb 18 18:58
FurnaceBoyyesFeb 18 18:58
FurnaceBoyoverpriced, overkill. and indubitably bloated.Feb 18 18:58
FurnaceBoyit's a cash cowFeb 18 18:58
sebsebsebyeah cash cows, software that computer ignorants think are so great, but really aren't that great at allFeb 18 18:59
sebsebsebPhotoshopFeb 18 18:59
sebsebsebWindowsFeb 18 18:59
DaemonFCI downloaded it once just to check into it and ended up uninstalling it and wondering how anyone would pay hundreds of dollars for itFeb 18 18:59
sebsebsebMicrosoft OfficeFeb 18 18:59
sebsebseband so onFeb 18 18:59
_goblinI see the DOJ have given the green light to Yahoo/MicrosoftFeb 18 18:59
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: it is true taht it's a professional necessity. but that's an unfortunate temporary situation.Feb 18 18:59
DaemonFCEven Gimp has more than I useFeb 18 18:59
sebsebseb_goblin: I was thinking about that earlier,   it might be nice for some of us to give Canonical money,  whilst we get something in return, but there are better ways they could do itFeb 18 19:00
_goblinfor me theres two ways you could look at it....Feb 18 19:00
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy, As for the price being why someone would go after FOSS, it is to some extentFeb 18 19:00
DaemonFCI used to have a hard drive full of unlicensed MS Office, unlicensed PowerDVD, etc.Feb 18 19:01
DaemonFCbut it's not worth dealing with that when OOo and VLC work better Feb 18 19:01
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: of course it isFeb 18 19:01
sebsebsebDaemonFC: uhmm this channel is pubically logged,  piracy authorities could read itFeb 18 19:01
_goblineither a/ Canonical are taking money from Microsoft.....or b/ Microsoft think that Ubuntu is a viable enough platform in terms of functionality and popularity to give their Bing a benefit in terms of hits.Feb 18 19:01
DaemonFCsebsebseb, so?Feb 18 19:01
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: that's one reason F/OSS is going to growFeb 18 19:01
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: the "screw users for everything you can get while offering next to nothing in return" business model is dying.Feb 18 19:02
DaemonFCIt's not worth paying for something when there's freeware (and that's one aspect of FOSS) is out there and works as well or betterFeb 18 19:02
_goblinMicrosoft money it doesn't matter...if Canonical can make a nice revenue stream then it can only be good news for the end user.Feb 18 19:02
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: it depended on lockin, which depends on ignoranceFeb 18 19:02
sebsebsebDaemonFC: Freeware is free as in price, but not freedomFeb 18 19:02
sebsebsebsince the source code is closed sourceFeb 18 19:02
DaemonFCsebsebseb, Most Free Software is also free as in priceFeb 18 19:03
sebsebsebsome people mistakinly will call opensource/freesoftware freewareFeb 18 19:03
DaemonFCmaking it freeware at the same timeFeb 18 19:03
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 19:03
sebsebsebFreeware is more of a Windows thing also reallyFeb 18 19:03
sebsebsebwhen it comes to Desktop Linux at the moment, and freeware, we have Flash and that's about itFeb 18 19:03
sebsebsebGoogle Earth as wellFeb 18 19:03
DaemonFCAMD used to describe Linux as like "a freeware UNIX varient" or something to the effectFeb 18 19:03
DaemonFCI didn't like thatFeb 18 19:04
sebsebsebin a way you could say those closed source propritary nivida drivers are  freeware, but we woudn't normalley  mention them being freewareFeb 18 19:04
DaemonFCyou could fit that definition by having something proprietary that was actually based on UNIX codeFeb 18 19:04
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 19:04
DaemonFClike when Sun was handing out free Solaris 10 DVDsFeb 18 19:04
sebsebsebI was also thinking earlier aboutFeb 18 19:05
sebsebsebif in a way it's a good thing for XP to be supported for another four yearsFeb 18 19:05
sebsebsebinstead of it running out of support this AprilFeb 18 19:05
sebsebseblet's be realistic is  Desktop Linux ready for the majority of the mass computer users?  nopeFeb 18 19:05
DaemonFCpretty much every Unix-like system out there today is more of a "unix-plus" or perhaps a POSIX-plusFeb 18 19:06
Ender2070_<DaemonFC> like when Sun was handing out free Solaris 10 DVDsFeb 18 19:06
sebsebsebwill most Windows users that are currently using XP, want to upgrade to Vista or Vista version 2?  nopeFeb 18 19:06
Ender2070_they still are giving out free solaris disksFeb 18 19:06
Ender2070_opensolarisFeb 18 19:06
DaemonFCEnder2070_, Not OpenSolarisFeb 18 19:06
DaemonFCI mean before they did thatFeb 18 19:06
DaemonFCthey were giving out free Solaris 10 DVD setsFeb 18 19:06
DaemonFCI got oneFeb 18 19:06
Ender2070_i got one tooFeb 18 19:06
Ender2070_i also have opensolaris onesFeb 18 19:06
sebsebsebthen when next Windows comes out,  I guess won't be able to  easilly upgrade to it from XP,  so  more clean installs will happen?  or people wil buy new computers instead?   and then less zombie/botnet pc's ?Feb 18 19:07
DaemonFCThe Solaris 10 with an x86 and sparc DVD in the case?Feb 18 19:07
Ender2070_yesFeb 18 19:07
sebsebsebalso I hope that browser ballot will be a successFeb 18 19:07
sebsebsebit's next monthFeb 18 19:08
DaemonFCsebsebseb, If someone has XP right now, it's probably old and beaten to hellFeb 18 19:08
sebsebseb,but apparnatlly they will offer like 11 browsers, but what?   I hope they won't offer any IE shells, those are fake browsersFeb 18 19:08
DaemonFChow would you upgrade a messy virus infected XP to Windows 7?Feb 18 19:08
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 19:08
sebsebsebMozilla Firefox,  Seamonkey,  Opera, Safari,  Chromeium, Chrome,  Safari,  and K-Meleon, but what else is there for Windows when it comes to real browsers?Feb 18 19:08
Ender2070_Chromium +1Feb 18 19:09
sebsebsebThat is not 11 browsers what I just mentionedFeb 18 19:09
DaemonFCsebsebseb, There's SwiftFeb 18 19:09
DaemonFCis that still around?Feb 18 19:09
sebsebseboh yeah SwiftfoxFeb 18 19:09
sebsebsebedited version of Firefox for a certain proccessorFeb 18 19:09
sebsebsebI think that's still aroundFeb 18 19:09
sebsebsebalso I guess Iceweasel has a Windows versionFeb 18 19:09
sebsebseb,but even so we don't have 11 browsers?Feb 18 19:10
DaemonFChttp://www.webdevelopersnotes.com/design/browsers_for_windows.php3Feb 18 19:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: List of Web browsers for Windows .::. Size~: 39.83 KBFeb 18 19:10
DaemonFCApparently someone ported MidoriFeb 18 19:10
DaemonFCThere's K-Meleon, I used to use that on my old Windows 98 boxFeb 18 19:11
sebsebsebwell they better not have an IE shell  or more than one in  their browser ballotFeb 18 19:11
sebsebsebDaemonFC: I already mentioend K-MeleonFeb 18 19:11
DaemonFCooopsFeb 18 19:11
sebsebsebI used to run that from a USB stick sometimes at college,  (not same thing in UK as it is in USA)Feb 18 19:11
sebsebsebplus I have had it installed in Windows of course, but also WineFeb 18 19:12
sebsebsebI really like it's iconFeb 18 19:12
DaemonFCsebsebseb, Konqueror runs on Windows :)Feb 18 19:12
DaemonFCbut I doubt anyone is using it thereFeb 18 19:12
sebsebsebI would use Firefox mainly though, since yeah best one to supportFeb 18 19:12
sebsebsebgood strong number twoFeb 18 19:12
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: you said Safari twice!!Feb 18 19:12
sebsebsebDaemonFC: Well  some KDE 4 apps can be run natively on WindowsFeb 18 19:12
DaemonFCyeah, Some better than othersFeb 18 19:13
DaemonFCI tried out the KDE 4.3 for Windows on Windows 7Feb 18 19:13
DaemonFCmost apps work wellFeb 18 19:13
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: SOlaris 10 DVD is freely downloadableFeb 18 19:13
sebsebsebKDE 4 can run on haiku as well with a 3rd party program :)Feb 18 19:13
sebsebsebI don't like KDE 4 much at allFeb 18 19:13
sebsebseb,but Feb 18 19:13
sebsebsebhaving it's apps on other platforms that can be goodFeb 18 19:13
DaemonFCsebsebseb, How does KDE work on Haiku? KDE requires an X server.Feb 18 19:14
DaemonFCor do you just mean the apps?Feb 18 19:14
sebsebsebI will soemtimes use KDE 4,  I haven't tried 4.4 yet.   and  well  Konversation in Gnome yep, and sometimes other KDE appsFeb 18 19:14
sebsebsebDaemonFC: there's a 3rd party programFeb 18 19:14
sebsebseband with it KDE 4 can be run, but also Gimp and so onFeb 18 19:14
sebsebsebYou guys got snow as well?Feb 18 19:15
FurnaceBoynothing hereFeb 18 19:15
FurnaceBoywe haven't had a foot all winter. (Toronto)Feb 18 19:15
DaemonFCuggghFeb 18 19:15
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: it snowed quite a bit last year here, and then today as wellFeb 18 19:15
sebsebsebwe don't tend to get snow hereFeb 18 19:15
DaemonFCthe last thing I need to see is more snowFeb 18 19:15
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: where's here?Feb 18 19:15
sebsebseband if we do, it tends to be a sucky amountFeb 18 19:15
sebsebseb,but today it's been good snowFeb 18 19:15
sebsebseband it was snowing like all afternoonFeb 18 19:15
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: England, but my part doesn't tend to get it, or a good amount, when another part does get a good amountFeb 18 19:16
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yeahFeb 18 19:16
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: you had our winter, we had yours.Feb 18 19:16
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy, Do you get weather reports in Fahrenheit there? Just curious.Feb 18 19:16
sebsebsebsnow causes quite a bit of trouble for this countrey as wellFeb 18 19:16
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: we normally get a few feet, and a blizzard, but this year warm temperatures and less than 1 foot snowFeb 18 19:16
sebsebsebsince it's not set up for snowFeb 18 19:16
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yesFeb 18 19:16
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: no, CFeb 18 19:17
DaemonFChmmmFeb 18 19:17
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: we're metricFeb 18 19:17
DaemonFCyeah, the only thing the metric system hasn't fucked with it time measurementFeb 18 19:17
DaemonFCyetFeb 18 19:17
sebsebsebSo you guys been watching the winter olympicsFeb 18 19:17
sebsebsebwomens down hill skiing was goodFeb 18 19:17
DaemonFCeventually people will be asking what year is it in the USFeb 18 19:17
*FurnaceBoy hasn'tFeb 18 19:18
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: I haven't seen most of it eitherFeb 18 19:18
FurnaceBoyi'm too busy for tv .. for better or worseFeb 18 19:18
sebsebsebone woman, feel  very soon after  startingFeb 18 19:18
sebsebsebfell aboveFeb 18 19:18
sebsebsebso that wasn't that good, for herFeb 18 19:18
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: you seem quite active on IRC though,  being on IRC, isn't being busy?Feb 18 19:19
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: I shouldn't be hereFeb 18 19:19
FurnaceBoy:)Feb 18 19:19
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: IRC at work?Feb 18 19:19
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: arguablyFeb 18 19:19
sebsebsebin other words yes?Feb 18 19:19
FurnaceBoyit's a distraction from work, yesFeb 18 19:19
FurnaceBoywhich is why i periodically disconnect :)Feb 18 19:19
sebsebsebquite a lot of  people do IRC at work,  and maybe instant messaging and Facebook/Twitter as well,  or just those and not IRC, you know what I meanFeb 18 19:20
DaemonFCI can't wait for summer, gets up to 80 or so in June, I'll go to the lake and swim :)Feb 18 19:20
FurnaceBoyyeah, i should simply ban it from certain hour periodsFeb 18 19:20
DaemonFCno fucking snow :DFeb 18 19:20
sebsebsebDaemonFC: spam bots in the Freenode support channel,  happended againFeb 18 19:20
sebsebsebDaemonFC: happended earlier alsoFeb 18 19:20
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: I feel personally I lack discipline for succumbing to such distractions .. and don't forget the traditional one, Slashdot.Feb 18 19:20
DaemonFCsebsebseb, Well, they're trying to k-line them, they snagged you somehow I guess *shrugs*Feb 18 19:21
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: ah yesFeb 18 19:21
sebsebsebLinux news  when  meant to be doing something else can be quite funFeb 18 19:21
sebsebsebDaemonFC: name high lightsFeb 18 19:21
sebsebseblike beforeFeb 18 19:21
sebsebsebDaemonFC: snagged me?Feb 18 19:21
DaemonFCwell, you said you got k-linedFeb 18 19:21
sebsebsebDaemonFC: yes I didFeb 18 19:21
FurnaceBoyany GNOME wonks here?Feb 18 19:21
DaemonFChappened around the time of a spam bot invasion, right?Feb 18 19:21
sebsebsebDaemonFC: not sureFeb 18 19:22
sebsebseb,but someone was saying how he had also been  banned/k-lined soon after I had been from Spannish Ubuntu channelFeb 18 19:22
DaemonFCback to browsers, I wonder if there's an updated Seamonkey in the Mozilla PPAFeb 18 19:22
sebsebsebDaemonFC: anyway it was some spam measure that got me or whatever,  I got an explination and appology from some Freenode staff (well I think he was)Feb 18 19:22
DaemonFCUbuntu still had version 1.xFeb 18 19:22
sebsebsebDaemonFC: Ubuntu is a joke reallyFeb 18 19:23
sebsebsebhow a lot of users will have to turn to ppa's now days for somethingFeb 18 19:23
sebsebsebor the otherFeb 18 19:23
DaemonFCsebsebseb, Yes, I would be using Debian Testing but for a few problemsFeb 18 19:23
DaemonFCnot the least of which is ATIFeb 18 19:23
sebsebsebohFeb 18 19:23
sebsebsebDaemonFC: well Feb 18 19:23
sebsebsebI got this Mandriva version for now, but when 10.04 comes out I will do my little file system testFeb 18 19:23
sebsebsebhave it a few days or a week or something, then Debian TestingFeb 18 19:23
sebsebsebuntill next Mandriva I guess,  unless I become happy enough with Debian TestingFeb 18 19:24
DaemonFCDebian Testing moved to  X Server 1.7 the other day (it had been on 1.6)Feb 18 19:24
DaemonFCso ATI no worky :)Feb 18 19:24
sebsebsebI been doing a littel vm testing of 10.04 alsoFeb 18 19:24
sebsebseband  alpha 3 this Thursday :)Feb 18 19:24
sebsebsebnot todayFeb 18 19:24
sebsebseba weekFeb 18 19:24
DaemonFCATI only seems to give a shit about UbuntuFeb 18 19:24
sebsebsebthere's already the social features though the me menu,  if the updates are done to alpha 2Feb 18 19:24
Diablo-D3http://clientsfromhell.tumblr.com/post/271682755/release-of-an-iphone-app-gameFeb 18 19:25
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Clients From Hell : Release of an IPhone App/Game .::. Size~: 10.34 KBFeb 18 19:25
DaemonFCand I hope the FOSS driver makes me not have to give a shit about ATIFeb 18 19:25
sebsebseband  they seem rather useless,  when no accounts are set up to use itFeb 18 19:25
sebsebseband  the social stuff has been linked to their editing on the top right hrmFeb 18 19:25
sebsebsebfast user account swticher editingFeb 18 19:25
DaemonFCsebsebseb, ATI jsut released another Catalyst/FGLRX today, and not only does it still not support X server 1.7, but it introduces new problems with Compiz sometimesFeb 18 19:25
sebsebsebso can't just remove the  social rubbish, whilst keeping the thing on top right, which I now find ok,   the 9.10 one that is,  really I want in system menu,  so I remove thing on top right and it's in system menu with shut down and log outFeb 18 19:26
DaemonFCAND they still haven't documented the new release notesFeb 18 19:26
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 19:26
sebsebseboh and  alpha 2, well  got to turn the icions on in gconf editorFeb 18 19:26
sebsebseball this silly Gnome editing etcFeb 18 19:26
sebsebsebby Gnome itself and  Ubuntu, these daysFeb 18 19:26
DaemonFCAMD didn't even TEST the fucking thingFeb 18 19:26
sebsebsebthat log in screen for 9.10 is horrible looking as well,   Fedora did GDM 2 okFeb 18 19:26
DaemonFCand it's obvious because compositing is broken badly at timesFeb 18 19:26
_goblinI thought 9.10 was an improvement (login screen)Feb 18 19:26
sebsebseb_goblin:  I was in the big channel not that long agoFeb 18 19:27
sebsebsebsomeone came inFeb 18 19:27
sebsebsebasking how to change the theme etc, and told us it's the most horribleyst thing he had ever seen, that kind of thingFeb 18 19:27
DaemonFCsebsebseb, If they don't realease a passable driver next month I'm buying a Geforce, I swearFeb 18 19:27
sebsebsebthere's a 3rd party program to change background and such, but also one from two community members now or whateverFeb 18 19:27
DaemonFCI hate Nvidia as a company, but their drivers workFeb 18 19:27
sebsebsebDaemonFC: hate Nvidia as a company  why?Feb 18 19:27
DaemonFCsebsebseb, FOSS-hostile, senior management donates to backwards political causesFeb 18 19:28
DaemonFCmostly thatFeb 18 19:28
sebsebsebdonates to bakcwards politcal causes what do you mean?Feb 18 19:28
_goblinDo you mean the login backdrop?Feb 18 19:28
sebsebseb_goblin: back drop?Feb 18 19:28
DaemonFCoh, Republicans, anti-gay legislation, etc.Feb 18 19:28
sebsebsebnot sure what your on aboutFeb 18 19:29
sebsebsebDaemonFC: Feb 18 19:29
_goblinsorry.....Feb 18 19:29
sebsebseb_goblin: why?Feb 18 19:29
_goblinlolFeb 18 19:29
_goblinout of sync...I think....Feb 18 19:29
sebsebsebit's called capitalism and consumerisFeb 18 19:29
_goblinlost track of the conversation......Feb 18 19:29
sebsebsebcompanies make moneyFeb 18 19:29
sebsebsebcapitalism and consumerism aboveFeb 18 19:29
sebsebsebcompanies make money, they sell products, the consumer  buys themFeb 18 19:30
DaemonFCsebsebseb, I know, but they go out of their way to donate money towards hurting people for no reasonFeb 18 19:30
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] >@LudovicSpeaks .@AdamSerwer he's a terrorist..round up his kind&send them to Gitmo // dead people? what's wrong with just burying them?Feb 18 19:30
DaemonFCit doesn't even make them money laterFeb 18 19:30
sebsebsebmost don't really think that much about what they buy,  and use  WindowsFeb 18 19:30
sebsebsebwhen it comes to computingFeb 18 19:30
sebsebseband they will buy iphones and want that working with Ubuntu, if they up swtiching, and have  their little ipodsFeb 18 19:30
sebsebseband just eat up the technology companies give them basically, untill  noticeable problems, such  as  nasty viruses in WindowsFeb 18 19:31
*DaemonFC wonders what the hell is going on outsideFeb 18 19:31
sebsebsebin fact some won't care enough,  they will just pay someone to fix it, or not care and live with the problems,  or figure out how to clean install Windows them selves eventually, and continue using WindowsFeb 18 19:31
DaemonFCsounds like a whale giving birthFeb 18 19:31
sebsebsebafter all it's Windows, it's what everyone else uses' right? so they have to as well?Feb 18 19:31
sebsebsebwhat annoys me personalley is this oneFeb 18 19:31
sebsebsebwierlessFeb 18 19:31
sebsebsebUbuntu sucks for a lot of wireless devices, thing is Mandriva well it may just work thereFeb 18 19:32
sebsebsebI have told people to try Mandriva for a wireless device that didn't just work in Ubuntu, and oh yes it just worked in MandrivaFeb 18 19:32
sebsebseband a lot of new Ubuntu users woudn't know about other distros, or be a bit scared or whatever to try another and uh.   and some won't do that all, just go back to Windows, if they can't get it workingFeb 18 19:32
sebsebseband same thing for other hardware,  if it won't work,  and they want it badly enough, and they can't get it working, back to Windows they go,  it might have been Ubuntu's fault, it might have been a hardware manufactures fault, but now a lot of them will be thinking Desktop Linux is badFeb 18 19:33
sebsebsebDaemonFC: imagine the amount of people that have gone back to Windows, because of what I just putFeb 18 19:33
sebsebsebit's things like a lot of wireless devices still being an issue,  that is holding Desktop Linux back from the main streame,  and probably more so than  a lot of Windows software not being able to work on itFeb 18 19:34
sebsebsebpeople can find alternatives, to   most of their Windows rubbish,  or  Wine it, or vm it,  but hardware hrmFeb 18 19:35
sebsebsebanyway maybe, just maybe by April 2014Feb 18 19:35
sebsebsebwhen XP will run out of supportFeb 18 19:35
MinceRhttp://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/02/18/0429258/86-of-Windows-7-PCs-Maxing-Out-MemoryFeb 18 19:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot Technology Story | 86% of Windows 7 PCs Maxing Out Memory .::. Size~: 166.89 KBFeb 18 19:36
MinceRso much about the 'leaner vista' bullshitFeb 18 19:36
MinceRs/about/for/Feb 18 19:36
sebsebsebUbuntu and possibily quite a few other distros as well,  will be ready for most  main streame computer users.   April 14,  ok Ubuntu 10.04 LTS this April,   12.04  LTS   and then around the time  XP runs out of support   14.04  LTSFeb 18 19:37
sebsebsebthe LTS releasses are the ones they take truely seriously right?Feb 18 19:37
sebsebsebor maybe mobile  devices will hit off a lot more, and the desktop will really start to not matter much anymore,  oh and the mobile companies and turning to Linux a lot more now.Feb 18 19:38
sebsebsebI think I have put stuff like this before in here, but oh wellFeb 18 19:38
sebsebseboh and that was a lot of enter :DFeb 18 19:39
DaemonFCsebsebseb, The 2.6.32 kernel is special :)Feb 18 19:40
sebsebsebDaemonFC: How so?Feb 18 19:41
DaemonFCit's going to be maintained for 2+ yearsFeb 18 19:41
DaemonFCupstreamFeb 18 19:41
sebsebseboh didn't know thatFeb 18 19:41
DaemonFCso you'll see kernel.org backporting patches into it well into the .30's most likelyFeb 18 19:42
DaemonFCshould be pretty stable Feb 18 19:42
sebsebseb(end up switching and  won't do  that at all, above,  little mistakes yeah)Feb 18 19:43
Ender2070_hmmFeb 18 19:43
Ender2070_fedora 12 has that kernel in testing tooFeb 18 19:43
Ender2070_kde 4.4 is in updates-testingFeb 18 19:43
DaemonFCDebian Squeeze will freeze 2.6.32Feb 18 19:43
DaemonFC2.6.32 is in the squeeze freeze :)Feb 18 19:44
sebsebseb(and this:   it may have been a manufactures fault, but now....)Feb 18 19:44
DaemonFChttp://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Kernel-Log-Long-term-maintenance-for-2-6-32-util-linux-ng-extended-910616.htmlFeb 18 19:44
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Kernel Log: Long-term maintenance for 2.6.32, util-linux-ng extended - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 40.32 KBFeb 18 19:44
DaemonFC"Linux 2.6.32 is to be maintained for 2 to 3 years within the stable series"Feb 18 19:45
sebsebsebDaemonFC: well  that's nice for UbuntuFeb 18 19:45
sebsebsebsince 10.04 they have to support for Feb 18 19:45
DaemonFC2.6.27 is the last one they did this with and it's on 2.6.27.45 I thinkFeb 18 19:45
sebsebseb3 years on the desktop and 5 on the serverFeb 18 19:45
sebsebseb10.04 will use  2.6.32 I assumeFeb 18 19:45
sebsebseb3 years on the desktop hrmFeb 18 19:46
DaemonFCsebsebseb, Yeah, Ubuntu may have to carry 2.6.32 by themselves for a couple years, but really, after 45 point releases how bad could it be? right?Feb 18 19:46
DaemonFCby that time it won't be more than a security patch now and againFeb 18 19:46
Ender2070_I would hope 10.04 would use 2.6.33Feb 18 19:46
DaemonFCEnder2070_, I hope notFeb 18 19:47
Ender2070_then Fedora 13 will be way betterFeb 18 19:47
DaemonFCsomeone competent is maintaining 2.6.32Feb 18 19:47
DaemonFCwhy would you want Ubuntu to maintain the backporting of crap into their kernel?Feb 18 19:47
Ender2070_hopefully they backport all the btrfs work from .33 thenFeb 18 19:47
sebsebsebEnder2070_: noFeb 18 19:47
sebsebseb10.04 won't use BTFSFeb 18 19:47
sebsebsebBTFS is also rather unstable still?Feb 18 19:47
Ender2070_falseFeb 18 19:48
MinceRbtrfs?Feb 18 19:48
DaemonFCyes, it's unstableFeb 18 19:48
DaemonFCyes, they still have on disk format changesFeb 18 19:48
Ender2070_one of fedora 13's features will be btrfs powered snapshots built into yumFeb 18 19:48
DaemonFCno the utilities aren't really readyFeb 18 19:48
Ender2070_stop spreading liesFeb 18 19:48
DaemonFChell no you shouldn't use it yetFeb 18 19:48
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: they need about 5 yrs to shake that down before you'd want to use it in production :)Feb 18 19:48
sebsebsebEnder2070_: Fedora is more cutting edge than UbuntuFeb 18 19:48
Ender2070_the on disk format is not subject to any planned changesFeb 18 19:48
DaemonFCgo ahead but it's your data :)Feb 18 19:48
sebsebsebEnder2070_: Fedora tend to get later stuff first as ar esultFeb 18 19:48
sebsebsebresultFeb 18 19:48
MinceRthere was some uncertainty about that feature making it into 13, afaikFeb 18 19:48
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: most filesystems we use at 20+ years old; even ZFS is 6-odd years old in GAFeb 18 19:48
Ender2070_well Fedora > UbuntuFeb 18 19:48
sebsebsebEnder2070_: Fedora can also brake quite easilly I think?   also  Fedora 11 woudn't even like my partition set up, just standard Ubuntu partitions and a VistaFeb 18 19:49
sebsebsebthe installer gave me an errorFeb 18 19:49
DaemonFCEnder2070_, The new driver in new kernel versions will see you have the old on disk format and automatically update itFeb 18 19:49
Ender2070_Fedora pushes new software technologies forwardFeb 18 19:49
sebsebsebtold me to report some bug or whateverFeb 18 19:49
sebsebsebwhen  I tried to partitionFeb 18 19:49
DaemonFCthat's the only kind of format changes they're allowing at this pointFeb 18 19:49
Ender2070_Ubuntu rides on stuff Fedora got working for everyone elseFeb 18 19:49
sebsebsebEnder2070_: Fedora is not for newbiesFeb 18 19:49
sebsebsebEnder2070_: Fedora is not  for business eitherFeb 18 19:49
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: that could be spelled "cooperation" :)Feb 18 19:49
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: I am sure it's not all take-takeFeb 18 19:50
MinceRit can be for business, if you have good enough inhouse support :>Feb 18 19:50
DaemonFCEnder2070_, Even XFS still gets minor on disk format changes now and againFeb 18 19:50
sebsebsebEnder2070_: Fedora is to cutting edge for business Feb 18 19:50
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: remember Debian has done a shedload of workFeb 18 19:50
Ender2070_Most of ubuntu's stuff is take takeFeb 18 19:50
DaemonFCbut they let you opt into themFeb 18 19:50
sebsebsebEnder2070_: and Fedora has stuff in it, that   new Linux users won't needFeb 18 19:50
sebsebsebEnder2070_: well yeahFeb 18 19:50
sebsebsebEnder2070_: take stuff from DebianFeb 18 19:50
Ender2070_sure but im not talking about new linux usersFeb 18 19:50
sebsebsebdo a bit of their own changingFeb 18 19:50
sebsebseband release a distroFeb 18 19:50
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: but this is explicitly allowedFeb 18 19:50
Ender2070_im talking about what i personally want to run on my own computersFeb 18 19:50
DaemonFCXFS's policy is that it has to be compatible with SGI IRIX and you must be able to mount the same file system in IRIX and LinuxFeb 18 19:50
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: I don't want to run Ubuntu for a long time on my computer anymoreFeb 18 19:51
sebsebsebthat's itFeb 18 19:51
Ender2070_when RHEL 6 hits the shelves, pwnage.ca is gonna get upgradesFeb 18 19:51
sebsebsebit's overFeb 18 19:51
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: well that's fine,i don't run it either.Feb 18 19:51
Ender2070_via centos 6Feb 18 19:51
sebsebsebUbuntu have messed up to much for me to be happy enough with them now, for my own personal long term computer usageFeb 18 19:51
DaemonFCEnder2070_, I still use XFS, it's still getting a lot of development love :)Feb 18 19:51
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: right now I am  using Mandriva, which is Redhat basedFeb 18 19:51
DaemonFCand it's hella-fastFeb 18 19:51
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: now  Mandriva is good for newbies as well as more expereinced usersFeb 18 19:51
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: apart from being obsolete :)Feb 18 19:51
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy, It's faring better than Ext4 stillFeb 18 19:52
DaemonFCExt4 is new!Feb 18 19:52
Ender2070_the whole world would get turned upside down if oracle gplv3'ed ZFSFeb 18 19:52
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: write-in-place filesystems are all fading into historyFeb 18 19:52
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: yes :)Feb 18 19:52
DaemonFCThe tide is going to turn when BtrFS is stable, I won't argueFeb 18 19:52
sebsebsebfile system talk againFeb 18 19:52
DaemonFCbut for right now the better choice is still XFSFeb 18 19:52
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you can use COW now, with NILFS2Feb 18 19:52
Ender2070_btrfs is getting thereFeb 18 19:52
sebsebsebI guess pretty much any file system would do for my computer useage thoughFeb 18 19:52
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: no, it's ZFS. it does exist, you know. :)Feb 18 19:52
DaemonFCZFS is unusable in Linux except with FUSEFeb 18 19:53
DaemonFCso it's not an optionFeb 18 19:53
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: so why stick with LInux?Feb 18 19:53
Ender2070_opensolarisFeb 18 19:53
FurnaceBoy+1Feb 18 19:53
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: Fedora better than Ubuntu uhmm that depends on the userFeb 18 19:53
Ender2070_its still free softwareFeb 18 19:53
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: I don't use any of theseFeb 18 19:53
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: also it seems quite a lot of  people think RPM distros are bad, because of dependancy hell or whateverFeb 18 19:53
Ender2070_the license is a little weaker but its still open sourceFeb 18 19:53
DaemonFCbecause OpenSlowlaris is crapFeb 18 19:53
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: hm?Feb 18 19:53
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: specifics?Feb 18 19:53
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: spoken like somebody who's totally unfamiliar with it.Feb 18 19:53
DaemonFClook at any head-on benchmarkFeb 18 19:53
DaemonFCif I wanted to use ZFS that bad, I'd use it on FreeBSDFeb 18 19:54
DaemonFCnot SlowlarisFeb 18 19:54
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: if you understood ZFS, you'd want it that abdFeb 18 19:54
FurnaceBoybad*Feb 18 19:54
Ender2070_FreeBSD needs to keep up with ZFS devFeb 18 19:54
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: ah I started messaging you, when I was meant to be messing Ender2070_Feb 18 19:54
sebsebsebmessaging aboveFeb 18 19:54
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: ahahaha revenge for what I did the other day :)Feb 18 19:54
DaemonFCZFS is probably the only ray of sunshine in the entire OpenSolaris worldFeb 18 19:54
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 19:54
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: accidentallyFeb 18 19:54
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: wrogFeb 18 19:54
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: wrongFeb 18 19:54
DaemonFCand FreeBSD, a better OS, has it tooFeb 18 19:55
Ender2070_i couldn't even mount my current ZFS filesystem from my fileserver if I installed freebsd on itFeb 18 19:55
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: what's that?   I don't remember or whateverFeb 18 19:55
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: why don't you learn about things before you talk about them?Feb 18 19:55
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: oh when you kept on high lighting me loads, and was meant to message someone else?Feb 18 19:55
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yeah :)Feb 18 19:55
DaemonFChttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_shanghai_opensolaris&num=1Feb 18 19:55
Ender2070_DaemonFC - dont forget dtraceFeb 18 19:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] AMD Shanghai Opteron: Linux vs. OpenSolaris Benchmarks .::. Size~: 20.24 KBFeb 18 19:55
DaemonFCRead 'em and weepFeb 18 19:55
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: because they came in yellow which is really hard to readFeb 18 19:55
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: and zones.Feb 18 19:55
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: and RBACFeb 18 19:55
DaemonFCeven Ubuntu assrapes SlowlarisFeb 18 19:55
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: and all the restFeb 18 19:55
sebsebsebEnder2070_: Fedora better or worse than Ubuntu, depends on  the userFeb 18 19:55
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you have NO idea what you are talking about.Feb 18 19:55
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: go study SolarisFeb 18 19:56
Ender2070_for me Fedora is betterFeb 18 19:56
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: came in yellow?Feb 18 19:56
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: highlightingFeb 18 19:56
Ender2070_personallyFeb 18 19:56
DaemonFCthe only way you ever see Slowlaris overtake Linux is in Java benchmarksFeb 18 19:56
DaemonFCno surprise there, right?Feb 18 19:56
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yellow on light grey-- very hard to read-- so i got the wrong nickFeb 18 19:56
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: wrongFeb 18 19:56
sebsebsebEnder2070_: Fedora can brake easilly or whatever, plus certain people think RPM distros are bad since dependancy hell in the past or whateverFeb 18 19:56
Ender2070_I know enough about linux that nothing on Fedora gets me downFeb 18 19:56
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you really have no clue, you don't know the capabilities of SolarisFeb 18 19:56
DaemonFChttp://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_shanghai_opensolaris&num=2Feb 18 19:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] AMD Shanghai Opteron: Linux vs. OpenSolaris Benchmarks .::. Size~: 18.38 KBFeb 18 19:56
DaemonFCOpenSlowlaris nearly gets lapped by UbuntuFeb 18 19:57
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: study that, better yet, use it, and come back and talk about itFeb 18 19:57
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 19:57
DaemonFCon exactly the stuff I tend to doFeb 18 19:57
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: we are talking about capabilities that linux does not have.Feb 18 19:57
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: name themFeb 18 19:57
DaemonFCwell, you can see Ubuntu dusting Slowlaris on media encodingFeb 18 19:57
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: eh?Feb 18 19:57
DaemonFCtwice as fast, nearly in some casesFeb 18 19:57
Ender2070_different purposes sirFeb 18 19:57
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: yesFeb 18 19:58
DaemonFCPHP compilation, Ubuntu beats the shit out of OpenSlowlarisFeb 18 19:58
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you still don't get itFeb 18 19:58
DaemonFC7zip compression, Ubuntu murders OpenSlowlarisFeb 18 19:58
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: none of this is relevantFeb 18 19:58
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: quit discussing a product you know nothing aboutFeb 18 19:59
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: it's your worst habitFeb 18 19:59
DaemonFCGnuPG, OpenSlowlaris is painfully slowFeb 18 19:59
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: when you are running Solaris or OpenSolaris , come talkFeb 18 19:59
DaemonFCUbuntu beats Slowlaris to a pulp, that's just the overall outcomeFeb 18 19:59
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: nonsenseFeb 18 20:00
DaemonFCfrags it just for kicks :)Feb 18 20:00
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you haven't understood the conversationFeb 18 20:00
Ender2070_ubuntu also crashes fasterFeb 18 20:00
DaemonFCI understand that OpenSolaris would be crippling nearly every take I did with itFeb 18 20:00
DaemonFC*taskFeb 18 20:00
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: huh?Feb 18 20:00
sebsebsebI wasn't following the convo, but Solaris and OpenSolaris will have certain advantages over Ubuntu, but not just Ubuntu,  Fedora and other Desktop Linux's as wellFeb 18 20:00
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: really. you're embarrassing yourself.Feb 18 20:01
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: indeedFeb 18 20:01
DaemonFCHow could it be this much slower?Feb 18 20:01
DaemonFCI don't care if it doesn't crash if it performs this badlyFeb 18 20:01
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: really. you're embarrassing yourself.Feb 18 20:01
sebsebsebeven Windows does a few things better than Desktop Linux really, if we like it or not?Feb 18 20:01
Ender2070_DaemonFC - what does someone care about 7zip compression when they save so much by having dtrace, zones and a reliable file system in case of hardware failureFeb 18 20:01
DaemonFCtalking about reliability on PC-class hardwareFeb 18 20:02
DaemonFCwhat's your next act?Feb 18 20:02
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 20:02
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: listen, I'll spell it out. If Linux works fine for your narrow purpose, go ahead and use it. But when you actually need what Solaris offers, Linux hasn't got it.Feb 18 20:02
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you don;'t know enough about Solaris to meaningfully talk about it.Feb 18 20:02
FurnaceBoyyou're discussing it with people who use it every dayFeb 18 20:03
Ender2070_ZFS saved me big bucks not having to buy hardware raid, and i get free feature upgradesFeb 18 20:03
DaemonFCit just seems like it's offering me slow, incompatible, and frustratingFeb 18 20:03
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: it *obsoletes* hardware raid.Feb 18 20:03
Ender2070_correctFeb 18 20:03
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: perhaps? but you never tried it.Feb 18 20:03
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: and you can only discuss your own narrow application in any case.Feb 18 20:03
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: try it and come backFeb 18 20:03
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy, Actually, last time I booted their LiveCD, it didn't even recognize my ethernetFeb 18 20:03
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: amazing how few people don't get that...Feb 18 20:03
DaemonFCso it's completely useless if it can't even get that rightFeb 18 20:04
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: oups, how few GET that.Feb 18 20:04
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: wrongFeb 18 20:04
Ender2070_FurnaceBoy - yeah I know, they think that everyone does what they doFeb 18 20:04
DaemonFChow fucking hard is it to implement Intel gigabit ethernet?Feb 18 20:04
sebsebsebDaemonFC: as  far as I know Solaris and OpenSolaris  are more of a server OS than a Desktop OSFeb 18 20:04
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: traditionally yesFeb 18 20:04
DaemonFCI mean there's only about 100 billion of them out thereFeb 18 20:04
Ender2070_and programming/developmentFeb 18 20:04
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: they really kick serious ass thereFeb 18 20:05
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: it's also one of very few O/S qualified on same vendor's hwFeb 18 20:05
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: even though DaemonFC  's ethernet woudn't work apparnatlly :DFeb 18 20:05
DaemonFCIf I was throwing it a curveball, I could understand the epic failFeb 18 20:05
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: he thinks that is relevantFeb 18 20:05
DaemonFCbut this is little league softballFeb 18 20:05
Ender2070_some of the KDE devs use opensolaris because of sun studio, lint, dtrace and many other reasonsFeb 18 20:05
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: yeah that's a point, it doesn't tend to run on standard PC hardware anyway?Feb 18 20:06
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: it does, but driver coverage is less than Linux.Feb 18 20:06
DaemonFCsebsebseb, oddly enough my nvidia card worked great, and I had CompizFeb 18 20:06
FurnaceBoywhich is fine, because driver coverage isn't the point.Feb 18 20:06
DaemonFCwhich gave me something to do before throwing the CD awayFeb 18 20:06
Ender2070_DaemonFC - you were using a beta livecdFeb 18 20:06
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: if you had persevered , we could have had a meaningful conversation about it.Feb 18 20:06
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC:  we could be discussing the technologies in Solaris that Linux doesn't approachFeb 18 20:07
DaemonFCalright, I may order another CDFeb 18 20:07
DaemonFCthey're free coasters after it fails to work I supposeFeb 18 20:07
sebsebsebDaemonFC: order uhmm,  OpenSolaris can be downloaded the ISO I think,  as far Solaris not sureFeb 18 20:07
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: anyway; I run Linux on desktop as it happens, and Solaris on servers.Feb 18 20:07
Ender2070_if you had compiz you were using one of the dev versions, 2009.06 didnt have compiz on by defeaultFeb 18 20:07
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: but it wouldn't kill me to run an OpenSolaris desktop. I would certainly not lack for "speed."Feb 18 20:07
DaemonFCEnder2070_, It was the CD they sent meFeb 18 20:08
sebsebsebBSDFeb 18 20:08
sebsebsebBSDFeb 18 20:08
sebsebsebBSDFeb 18 20:08
sebsebsebBSDFeb 18 20:08
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yeah, both can be downloadedFeb 18 20:08
sebsebsebwhat about BSD?Feb 18 20:08
DaemonFCprobably from spring of last yearFeb 18 20:08
MinceRwhat's up with BSD?Feb 18 20:08
sebsebsebwhat you guys think of BSD,  I  have done BSD sort of in vm, then didn't get that far or whateverFeb 18 20:08
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy, How do you expect me to know anything about OpenSolaris when it doesn't even recognize vital hardware?Feb 18 20:08
MinceRi have tried to manage a freebsd jail and it was horrendousFeb 18 20:09
sebsebsebMinceR: jail?Feb 18 20:09
MinceRbut it seems to work out well for some peopleFeb 18 20:09
Ender2070_BSD has a niche as a server os tooFeb 18 20:09
MinceRsebsebseb: improved chrootFeb 18 20:09
sebsebsebohFeb 18 20:09
DaemonFCMinceR, PC-BSD is a better desktopFeb 18 20:09
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: i don't mind you not knowing. I mind you not-knowing and making wild assertions about its usefulnessFeb 18 20:09
MinceRDaemonFC: it was a server though :>Feb 18 20:09
DaemonFCahhhFeb 18 20:09
DaemonFCyou can install FreeBSD with the PC-BSD discFeb 18 20:09
sebsebsebyeah PC BSD  and so onFeb 18 20:09
MinceRi didn't know thatFeb 18 20:10
Ender2070_not yet, 8 isnt outFeb 18 20:10
DaemonFCwithout having to use the FreeBSD text installer and allFeb 18 20:10
sebsebsebi'll have to try in vmFeb 18 20:10
sebsebsebFreeBSD I tired in vm, but then somethingFeb 18 20:10
sebsebsebI didn't know how to install or whatever it wasFeb 18 20:10
DaemonFCMinceR, http://www.pcbsd.org/Feb 18 20:10
DaemonFC"# Brand new System Installer, allows the install of PC-BSD or FreeBSD"Feb 18 20:10
Ender2070_my favorite bsd is openbsdFeb 18 20:10
sebsebsebanyway all these interesting great OS's out thereFeb 18 20:10
sebsebseb,but yetFeb 18 20:10
sebsebsebWindows dominates the desktopFeb 18 20:10
sebsebsebwith OS X in second placeFeb 18 20:10
Ender2070_great os's appeal to the more intelligent minorityFeb 18 20:11
DaemonFCWarning: Don't go into PC-BSD wanting GNOME. It's available but it's a bad idea to install it. Could break your system.Feb 18 20:11
DaemonFCthat's per the PC-BSD guysFeb 18 20:11
MinceRlolFeb 18 20:11
Ender2070_KDE > GnomeFeb 18 20:11
sebsebsebEnder2070_: true most computer users are rather ignorant at them, and just use what the companies give  them and that's thatFeb 18 20:11
MinceRthey ship packages that break the system?Feb 18 20:11
DaemonFCMinceR, NoFeb 18 20:12
MinceRthat's about as sloppy as it getsFeb 18 20:12
DaemonFCIt's in PortsFeb 18 20:12
DaemonFCbut you're strongly advised not to install itFeb 18 20:12
MinceRso they ship ports that break the systemFeb 18 20:12
MinceRi seeFeb 18 20:12
Ender2070_so they ship broken portsFeb 18 20:12
MinceRstill just as sloppy as i thought :>Feb 18 20:12
DaemonFCPorts is not recommended eitherFeb 18 20:12
Ender2070_that would be like recommending against using synapticFeb 18 20:12
DaemonFCPBI is the preferred software installation methodFeb 18 20:12
FurnaceBoyspeaking of GNOME. Any GNOME experts here?Feb 18 20:13
DaemonFCOpenBSD discourages using Ports as wellFeb 18 20:13
DaemonFCif that makes you feel betterFeb 18 20:13
MinceRi discourage using BSD :>Feb 18 20:13
sebsebsebimagine a world where,  most computer users weren't so ignorant at  them,  I expect computing would be awesomeFeb 18 20:13
FurnaceBoy+1Feb 18 20:13
MinceRand i'm seeing one more reason for it :>Feb 18 20:13
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: was that at me?Feb 18 20:13
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: yeahFeb 18 20:13
Ender2070_thats probably one of the many reasons why BSD has a minority base among the unix clonesFeb 18 20:13
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: license makes it cool for embedded thoFeb 18 20:13
DaemonFChttp://faqs.pcbsd.org/index.php?action=artikel&cat=8&id=334&artlang=enFeb 18 20:13
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Knowledge Base - Can I use Gnome with PC-BSD? .::. Size~: 24.56 KBFeb 18 20:13
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: and systems like NetBSD are nice and solidFeb 18 20:14
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: yep sheep as people sayFeb 18 20:14
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: most people really are sheep, and not just when it comes to computingFeb 18 20:14
Ender2070_ <sebsebseb> imagine a world where,  most computer users weren't so ignorant at  them,  I expect computing would be awesomeFeb 18 20:14
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: mutton dressed as lamb!Feb 18 20:14
MinceRnice and solid until you try to install an app that isn't in the default install? :>Feb 18 20:14
Ender2070_this was the case not too long agoFeb 18 20:14
sebsebsebFurnaceBoy: mutton?Feb 18 20:14
Ender2070_before 1999Feb 18 20:14
sebsebsebEnder2070_: why did you copy that in?Feb 18 20:14
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: mutton - [noun] ('muh tEn)  1. the meat of a mature sheep, as distinguished from lamb.Feb 18 20:15
DaemonFCGNOME is generally frowned upon in the BSD worldFeb 18 20:15
Ender2070_to show what I was talking aboutFeb 18 20:15
sebsebsebEnder2070_: well  most people in the developed  world didn't have a computer untill  about 1999 yeahFeb 18 20:15
DaemonFCis what I gatherFeb 18 20:15
DaemonFCprobably many reasons for thatFeb 18 20:15
sebsebsebEnder2070_: and they got one with Windows, and so on from thereFeb 18 20:15
Ender2070_there was a time when everyone I knew who owned a computer could install their own hardwareFeb 18 20:16
Ender2070_now i only know one person in RL who canFeb 18 20:16
sebsebsebI guess sometimes when things become mainstreame or try to become mainstreameFeb 18 20:16
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: there was a time when they had circuit diagrams and component level repair... :|Feb 18 20:16
sebsebsebthey become badFeb 18 20:16
sebsebsebwell not sometimes, a lot of the timeFeb 18 20:16
sebsebseblet's take UbuntuFeb 18 20:16
sebsebsebit's starting to become bad now, and they are also trying to become more main streameFeb 18 20:16
Ender2070_thats the tradeoffFeb 18 20:16
sebsebsebEnder2070_: as in like, that's the price?Feb 18 20:17
Ender2070_if you want to be mainstream you have to cater to the computer illiterateFeb 18 20:17
MinceRwhat if someone wanted to use gnome office on pc-bsd?Feb 18 20:17
sebsebsebyeah when it comes to thisFeb 18 20:17
Ender2070_apple has made a killing off of people who find two button mice difficultFeb 18 20:17
MinceR(even on kde)Feb 18 20:17
MinceREnder2070_: in other words, on idiots :>Feb 18 20:18
Ender2070_yesFeb 18 20:18
sebsebsebEnder2070_: Apple have made a lot of money, by using opensource/freesoftwareFeb 18 20:18
FurnaceBoysebsebseb: but this is explicitly allowed...Feb 18 20:18
sebsebseband making it look better and suchFeb 18 20:18
Ender2070_yeahFeb 18 20:18
Ender2070_i agree with thatFeb 18 20:18
DaemonFCUbuntu does what I want it to do, without a hassle, most of the timeFeb 18 20:18
DaemonFCIt's more of an asset than a liability, to meFeb 18 20:18
Ender2070_DaemonFC - you're the demographicFeb 18 20:18
sebsebsebDaemonFC: Ubuntu is  starting to become a distro aimed at computer ignorants even more sowFeb 18 20:19
sebsebsebwhich means features that are uselessFeb 18 20:19
sebsebsebfor my own personal computer useageFeb 18 20:19
DaemonFCwhat? who doesn't want to be pestered by banal crap all the time?Feb 18 20:19
sebsebsebI don't need/want  Facebook and Twitter junkFeb 18 20:19
MinceRcrApple made FLOSS look better? when?Feb 18 20:19
MinceRi seem to have missed thatFeb 18 20:19
sebsebsebI don't  want a music store, I won't buy from thereFeb 18 20:19
sebsebsebI don't want to use Ubuntu OneFeb 18 20:19
Ender2070_MinceR - indirectlyFeb 18 20:19
DaemonFCsebsebseb, You don't have toFeb 18 20:19
DaemonFCuninstall it if you likeFeb 18 20:19
sebsebsebDaemonFC: sure, butFeb 18 20:19
Ender2070_MinceR - basicly the FLOSS they make look good is hidden in their proprietary codeFeb 18 20:20
MinceRthey're badmouthing and attacking FLOSS every chance they getFeb 18 20:20
sebsebsebDaemonFC: screw UbuntuFeb 18 20:20
*trmanco (~trmanco@64.229.71.190) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 20:20
sebsebsebDaemonFC: for my own personal computer useageFeb 18 20:20
MinceRand they put a useless, inflexible and butt-ugly GUI on top of itFeb 18 20:20
sebsebsebDaemonFC: I think Mandriva much better nowFeb 18 20:20
sebsebsebI could easilly disable pulse audio :)Feb 18 20:20
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sebsebsebin Ubuntu well,  good luck with thatFeb 18 20:20
MinceRon Kubuntu, pulseaudio is optionalFeb 18 20:20
Ender2070_MinceR- i agree, many of us do. apple makes money off people who want that shit.Feb 18 20:20
sebsebsebthink should  of been like aboveFeb 18 20:20
DaemonFCsebsebseb, it's possibleFeb 18 20:20
MinceRand not installed by defaultFeb 18 20:20
MinceRjust like monoFeb 18 20:20
sebsebsebDaemonFC: and the sound applet gets effected and whateverFeb 18 20:20
DaemonFCsebsebseb, Fedora is moving in to cram Pulseaudio down KDE users throatsFeb 18 20:21
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] 86% of Windows 7 PCs Maxing Out Memory: http://bit.ly/9EooeFFeb 18 20:21
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot | 86% of Windows 7 PCs Maxing Out Memory .::. Size~: 243 KBFeb 18 20:21
DaemonFCB-)Feb 18 20:21
Ender2070_DaemonFC - pulseaudio is the futureFeb 18 20:21
Ender2070_no wonderFeb 18 20:21
sebsebsebMinceR: some people don't like how they don't take Kubuntu that seriously, CannonicalFeb 18 20:21
sebsebsebMinceR: I guess they also don't reolize a lot of them, that Kubuntu is a community distro, not a Canonical distroFeb 18 20:21
DaemonFCEnder2070_, The least capable standard is usually the one that dominates. Feb 18 20:21
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Ender2070_not trueFeb 18 20:21
Ender2070_and pulseaudio only sucks on ubuntuFeb 18 20:22
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @mparent77772 Pregnant woman jailed for having thought about #abortion http://bit.ly/d1nRRk // holy crap!Feb 18 20:22
silentivmpulseaudio caused me nothing but headaches in all distros I usedFeb 18 20:22
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Pregnant woman jailed for having thought about abortion .::. Size~: 30.76 KBFeb 18 20:22
MinceRsebsebseb: if the rumors are true, things are going to get a lot worse soon :>Feb 18 20:22
Ender2070_its missing pulse audio's control panel for oneFeb 18 20:22
DaemonFCUbuntu has gotten lots better with itFeb 18 20:22
Ender2070_pulseaudio has an awesome control panelFeb 18 20:22
DaemonFCI haven't had to kill it savagely in KarmicFeb 18 20:22
sebsebsebEnder2070_:  not true, no sound in my vm's  with Virtualbox OSE in Mandriva either,  but  then I could disable pulseaudio in their graphical control centre, that sorted it :)Feb 18 20:22
sebsebsebEnder2070_: their as in Mandriva'sFeb 18 20:22
silentivmonce, with PA, if I was playing a song and opened another sound, I'd get a burst of noise which was enough to make me jump from the chairFeb 18 20:22
Ender2070_people still take Mandriva seriously?Feb 18 20:22
sebsebsebloads of people have had pulse audio issues, and not just  UbuntuFeb 18 20:23
silentivmsebsebseb: agreedFeb 18 20:23
sebsebsebEnder2070_: I had a few little issues with this  latest Mandriva,  nothing that serious,  however I find it much better than Ubuntu 9.10Feb 18 20:23
sebsebsebthat is  Mandriva OneFeb 18 20:23
Ender2070_if you have pulseaudio issues try fedora, they tend to use the latest versionsFeb 18 20:23
DaemonFCEnder2070_, Now it gets challenged in the supreme court, which invents more unconstitutional reasons to interfere with state lawsFeb 18 20:23
silentivmEnder2070_: I had issues *with* FedoraFeb 18 20:23
DaemonFCon constitutional grounds that they conjured upFeb 18 20:23
silentivmin fact, everything BUT PA worked well on itFeb 18 20:24
Ender2070_what sound cardFeb 18 20:24
silentivmEnder2070_: Intel HD audio (built-in on laptop)Feb 18 20:24
Ender2070_weirdFeb 18 20:24
Ender2070_my laptop uses it too and works fineFeb 18 20:24
DaemonFCof course the flip side of that is that if the supreme court hadn't invoked non-existent constitutional passages, I could still be thrown in jail in 26 statesFeb 18 20:25
DaemonFCyay supreme court!Feb 18 20:25
silentivmfortunately, my Arch Linux is PA-freeFeb 18 20:25
silentivm:DFeb 18 20:25
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DaemonFCyou get states like Iowa writing laws that conflict with Federal laws and court rulings just to challenge themFeb 18 20:25
DaemonFCThey figure that if they let some judges die and be replaced, that they can try fucking with people againFeb 18 20:26
DaemonFCand go before a new set of judgesFeb 18 20:26
Ender2070_might be PA-free but you are missing some of its advantages, such as having different sound playing from a usb headset than what comes from your speakersFeb 18 20:26
sebsebsebwhere's schestowitz ?Feb 18 20:26
silentivmEnder2070_: I don't see why I would need thatFeb 18 20:27
silentivmas I use headphones 100% of the timeFeb 18 20:27
Ender2070_yeah well some people mightFeb 18 20:27
DaemonFCEnder2070_, Here's what I say to those pricks. http://gadsdenflag.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/gadsden1.pngFeb 18 20:27
Ender2070_not having pulseaudio increases the difficulty of this task significantlyFeb 18 20:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Error processing the URL:  .::. Size~: 0 KBFeb 18 20:27
DaemonFC:DFeb 18 20:27
MinceRPA would be nice if it worked reliably and smoothly even with high loads (maybe it does already)Feb 18 20:27
Ender2070_its in my opinion that PA is just going to improve to the point where people will stop bitchingFeb 18 20:28
MinceRDaemonFC: that's an unrealistic pose for a snake :>Feb 18 20:28
MinceRi hope it willFeb 18 20:28
Ender2070_eventually everyone will have it working as well as I doFeb 18 20:28
MinceRi wouldn't mind some more flexibility in it thoughFeb 18 20:28
DaemonFCMinceR, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flagFeb 18 20:28
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Gadsden flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 36.43 KBFeb 18 20:28
MinceRlike being able to use it beside dmix, not instead of itFeb 18 20:28
MinceRfor example when i only need it to push sound over the networkFeb 18 20:28
DaemonFChttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Joinordie.jpgFeb 18 20:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBFeb 18 20:29
Ender2070_im sure its not impossibleFeb 18 20:29
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 20:29
MinceRmaybe a PA guru can make it work, but i'm no PA guruFeb 18 20:29
Ender2070_its new and will see improvement, its a good sign that redhat is paying to have it worked onFeb 18 20:29
MinceRi couldn't even find out how it hooks itself into ALSAFeb 18 20:29
Ender2070_remember how bad ALSA was when 2.6 was outFeb 18 20:30
MinceRso i had to remove the packages to make it stopFeb 18 20:30
MinceRi don't remember ALSA being bad, everFeb 18 20:30
silentivmMinceR: I did the sameFeb 18 20:30
silentivmnever had problems with ALSAFeb 18 20:30
Ender2070_no because it worked for both of youFeb 18 20:30
MinceRbut i was stuck with pseudo-OSS on my AWE32 machineFeb 18 20:30
Ender2070_there were people who had issuesFeb 18 20:30
MinceRi didn't dare switch gentoo over to ALSA thereFeb 18 20:30
Ender2070_just like PA issuesFeb 18 20:30
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: I agree, it will continue to be improved; it's silly for ppl to kvetch about a state of immaturity; everything evolvesFeb 18 20:30
DaemonFCMinceR, http://www.ecrater.com/product.php?pid=4481951Feb 18 20:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Gadsden Flag "DONT TREAD ON ME" NEW T-shirt .::. Size~: 24.36 KBFeb 18 20:30
DaemonFCthere you goFeb 18 20:31
DaemonFCbuy one, hell....buy twoFeb 18 20:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Bought ingredients to make home made pizza with the kids at the weekend.Feb 18 20:32
DaemonFChttp://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/gdhs_2090_28674875Feb 18 20:32
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Not a web page! Aborting image/jpeg type .::. Size~: 0 KBFeb 18 20:32
DaemonFCI like thatFeb 18 20:32
MinceRthat's greek, isn't it? :>Feb 18 20:34
MinceRLeonidas, iircFeb 18 20:34
schestowitzWeird.... why do AstroTufers (PR) of Windows cr*p mailing me without any consent just to promote their junk?Feb 18 20:42
schestowitz> Hi Roy,Feb 18 20:42
schestowitz> Feb 18 20:42
schestowitz> Just wanted to make sure you saw this new Windows video editing solutionFeb 18 20:42
schestowitz> software launched by Smith Micro today. Reveal can be used to transformFeb 18 20:42
schestowitz> home videos into professional-looking movies in three simple steps: Feb 18 20:42
schestowitz> select content, add music and choose an overall style for the movieFeb 18 20:42
schestowitz> piece. Reveal does the rest by compiling all of the information into oneFeb 18 20:42
schestowitz> multimedia montage that is completely personalized from start to finish.Feb 18 20:42
schestowitz> Feb 18 20:42
schestowitz> Would you like to review a copy of the software? Please let me know if IFeb 18 20:42
schestowitz> can forward a unit for review or help with any questions.Feb 18 20:42
schestowitz[...]Feb 18 20:42
schestowitzI'm receiving such junk sometimes repeatedly, usually from some PR proxies of those incognitosFeb 18 20:42
Diablo-D3holy shit, smith micro is still around?Feb 18 20:43
MinceRto annoy you or to waste your timeFeb 18 20:45
schestowitzI've just had this chat with a friend about the cheapening of life in foreign countriesFeb 18 20:47
schestowitzDoesn't the Haiti eathquake equate to 100 9/11s now?Feb 18 20:47
schestowitzalmost 300k... the death toll?Feb 18 20:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: Daily Mail causes, cures cancer http://newstechnica.com/?p=1505Feb 18 20:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Daily Mail causes, cures cancer | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 37.3 KBFeb 18 20:50
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: it's just a little bigger than Bhopal, IndiaFeb 18 20:51
*DaemonFC starts to build a kernelFeb 18 20:52
*DaemonFC is boredFeb 18 20:52
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: maybe we should start a war on natural disasters and illenssesFeb 18 20:52
schestowitzThen some wars on car accidentsFeb 18 20:52
schestowitzElevate this war to "code red"Feb 18 20:53
schestowitzWe could even united all of human kind to find these wars.... and no aliens involved :-)Feb 18 20:53
schestowitzI'll just tweet for a bit.....Feb 18 20:54
DaemonFCI shall build 2.6.33-rc8-git3Feb 18 20:55
DaemonFCif it builds :)Feb 18 20:55
DaemonFCsee what this Phenom II X4 is made of *grin*Feb 18 20:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Opinion: #GNU #Linux Has Buzz http://www.buntfu.com/news,page,83,topic_id,content_pagesFeb 18 20:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Buntfu.com - Buy & Sell Linux PC Computer Systems - Linux has reached the Apple buzz of 1976 and Microsoft knows it. .::. Size~: 42.07 KBFeb 18 20:56
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Linux Journal Has Penguin Photo Contest, New Linux Outlaws Episode http://ur1.ca/mp9i http://ur1.ca/mlrmFeb 18 20:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Penguin Photo Contest | Linux Journal .::. Size~: 39.51 KBFeb 18 20:57
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Linux Outlaws 136 - Make Love, Not Proprietary Software | Linux Outlaws .::. Size~: 18.31 KBFeb 18 20:57
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Many Linux/FOSS Events Coming http://ur1.ca/mp9o http://ur1.ca/mp9p http://ur1.ca/mp9q http://ur1.ca/mp9rFeb 18 20:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: SCALE 8x in Los Angeles This Weekend | tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 28.25 KBFeb 18 20:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Call for proposals - Open World Forum wiki .::. Size~: 14.09 KBFeb 18 20:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Shuttleworth, Rodriguez Keynote at PyCon 2010 | tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 32.21 KBFeb 18 20:59
phIRCe-BNcTitle: A FOSS lover's look at ViBGYOR 2010 | ViBGYOR International Short & Documentary Festival 2010 .::. Size~: 9.46 KBFeb 18 20:59
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] LinuxSearch.org Web #Search is Launched http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2010/02/introducing-linuxsearchorg.html http://linuxsearch.org/Feb 18 21:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle: From the Canyon Edge - :-Dustin Kirkland: Introducing LinuxSearch.org! .::. Size~: 70.83 KBFeb 18 21:00
phIRCe-BNcTitle: LinuxSearch.org .::. Size~: 7.44 KBFeb 18 21:00
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Graphics Stack Gets Better #AMD Catalyst Driver http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Nzk5MQFeb 18 21:01
phIRCe-BNcTitle: [Phoronix] AMD Catalyst 10.2 For Linux Gets Direct2D .::. Size~: 17.38 KBFeb 18 21:01
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Impressions and Raves About #KDE SC 4.4 http://ur1.ca/mpa4 http://ur1.ca/mpa5 http://ur1.ca/mpa4Feb 18 21:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: KDE 4.4 Mail Misunderstanding Explained & Akregator Surprize | tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 34.11 KBFeb 18 21:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Personalizing KDE 4.4 .::. Size~: 30.63 KBFeb 18 21:04
phIRCe-BNcTitle: KDE 4.4 Mail Misunderstanding Explained & Akregator Surprize | tuxmachines.org .::. Size~: 34.11 KBFeb 18 21:04
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-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNOME / #Metacity Getting a Touch of Polish http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/elementary-theme-getting-new-metacity.htmlFeb 18 21:05
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Elementary Theme Getting New Metacity | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 102.86 KBFeb 18 21:05
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Extensive Review of SAM #GNU #Linux http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/sam-linux.htmlFeb 18 21:06
phIRCe-BNcTitle:       SAM Linux - In the twilight zone     .::. Size~: 20.43 KBFeb 18 21:06
DaemonFCLinux really is ballooningFeb 18 21:08
DaemonFCThe source has gone from about 49 MB the last time I downloaded it to 61 MB todayFeb 18 21:08
DaemonFCnot that ballooning is necessarily badFeb 18 21:09
DaemonFCdepends on the features you get for the added weightFeb 18 21:09
*DaemonFC wonders if it's anything he cares about other than bug fixes and better driversFeb 18 21:09
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: you can experiment with a COW filesystem now that NILFS2 is in mainlineFeb 18 21:11
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: has snapshots, checksums, etcFeb 18 21:11
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: not equivalent to ZFS, but relatedFeb 18 21:11
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy, But I know and love XFS :DFeb 18 21:11
FurnaceBoyI mean for learning purposesFeb 18 21:12
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FurnaceBoynot to replace XFSFeb 18 21:12
DaemonFCwell, I know it anyway and I love it more than Ext4Feb 18 21:12
*sebsebseb has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Feb 18 21:12
DaemonFCso when will distributions start letting you format your partitions as nilfs?Feb 18 21:13
DaemonFCI mean like, during setupFeb 18 21:13
DaemonFCand will GRUB choke?Feb 18 21:13
DaemonFCif it's on /boot I meanFeb 18 21:13
DaemonFCGRUB Legacy was a real beast about things like thatFeb 18 21:13
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: personally I'd be inclined to try NILFS2 for database applications, not as a replacement system fsFeb 18 21:14
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy, XFS has been in the kernel since 2001 and until Grub2 came about last year, there was no way to reliably make /boot XFSFeb 18 21:14
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: it's just nice that it's in mainline, with these COW-based featuresFeb 18 21:14
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: ouchFeb 18 21:15
DaemonFCthere was a patch that Mandriva had been using to allow XFS on /boot with GRUB Legacy, but it was a hackFeb 18 21:15
DaemonFCand if GRUB started chowing down on your file system, don't come whiningFeb 18 21:15
DaemonFCit was kind of like thatFeb 18 21:15
DaemonFCstill is on Mandriva cause they're still using GRUB Legacy with that patchFeb 18 21:16
DaemonFCsame patch that lets it not freak out when it sees Ext4 actuallyFeb 18 21:16
DaemonFCEric Sandeen was the one telling me how he hated the old GRUBFeb 18 21:18
DaemonFCand how he'd never trust it with anything but Ext2/3Feb 18 21:19
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Chromatic on #SDL #Perl , New Board for #Eclipse http://ur1.ca/mpcl http://ur1.ca/mpcmFeb 18 21:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Why SDL Perl Matters - Modern Perl Books, a Modern Perl Blog .::. Size~: 17.99 KBFeb 18 21:27
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 2010 Board Candidate: .::. Size~: 6.91 KBFeb 18 21:27
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #RedHat #GNU #Linux is Fantastic, Clones Too http://ur1.ca/mpcw http://ur1.ca/mpcx #centosFeb 18 21:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: PCLinuxOS - the Big Daddy of all Desktop Linux Distributions: Is RHEL5 the New XP of Linux World? .::. Size~: 114.16 KBFeb 18 21:29
phIRCe-BNcTitle: CentOS, I had to try it «  Distrocheck .::. Size~: 32.33 KBFeb 18 21:29
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #SimplyMepis Linux 8.0.15 in #Review http://www.bargincomputing.com/2010/02/simplymepis-linux-8-0-15-review/ #debian #mepisFeb 18 21:30
phIRCe-BNcTitle:   SimplyMepis Linux 8.0.15 Review  Low Cost Computing .::. Size~: 23.43 KBFeb 18 21:30
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Wins and Additions to #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux http://ur1.ca/mn0z http://ur1.ca/mpd4 http://ur1.ca/mpd5 http://ur1.ca/mpd6Feb 18 21:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Lucid Software Centre Adds 'Featured' Gallery, PPA View | OMG! Ubuntu! .::. Size~: 104.4 KBFeb 18 21:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu: Canonical's Partner Program Scores 2 Wins | The VAR Guy .::. Size~: 50.77 KBFeb 18 21:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: OpenShot Video Editor: OpenShot Now Included in Ubuntu 10.04! .::. Size~: 109.2 KBFeb 18 21:31
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Prey for Ubuntu « The Jungle Online .::. Size~: 18.96 KBFeb 18 21:31
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #Review of the Linux-powered Patriot Box Office #PVP http://ur1.ca/mpdg new Boxee: http://ur1.ca/mpdhFeb 18 21:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Raiden's Realm: Review: Patriot Box Office PVP .::. Size~: 44 KBFeb 18 21:33
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Boxee Beta Updates with Over 500 Squashed Bugs - Boxee - Lifehacker .::. Size~: 63.05 KBFeb 18 21:33
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yuhonghttp://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1555118&cid=31191262Feb 18 21:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Slashdot Comments | Two Scoops of Buzz .::. Size~: 37.2 KBFeb 18 21:34
yuhongJust posted this slashdot comment.Feb 18 21:34
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubisoft Calls Quits the Industry with #DRM Senility http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=235290&site=pcg #idiots #badgamesFeb 18 21:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: PC Gamer Blog: Constant net connection required to play Assassin's Creed 2 on PC - PC Gamer Magazine .::. Size~: 216.58 KBFeb 18 21:36
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FSF / #GNU / #SFLC in New Audiocast from Former #Novell Manager http://www.networkworld.com/podcasts/openmic/2010/021710openmic-kuhn.htmlFeb 18 21:38
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Conversation with a free software radical .::. Size~: 62.11 KBFeb 18 21:38
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FurnaceBoyhttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/18/opinion/main6219596.shtmlFeb 18 21:39
phIRCe-BNcTitle: America’s Global Weapons Monopoly - CBS News .::. Size~: 55.47 KBFeb 18 21:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux Targets Mobile Computing More Than before http://ur1.ca/mjw7 http://ur1.ca/mmy7Feb 18 21:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Ubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04 gets ported onto Sony Ericsson's Xperia X1 -- Engadget .::. Size~: 105.27 KBFeb 18 21:40
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  .::. Size~: 5.44 KBFeb 18 21:40
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware and #Linux Increasingly Emerge as #Mobile Victors, Convergence Seen http://ur1.ca/mpe6Feb 18 21:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: 451 CAOS Theory » Open source growing footprint in embedded market .::. Size~: 43.75 KBFeb 18 21:42
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #ACTA Leaks, #USTR Targeted by #FSF http://ur1.ca/mpeh http://ur1.ca/mpeiFeb 18 21:43
phIRCe-BNcTitle: FSF submits comment in USTR Special 301 Review - Free Software Foundation .::. Size~: 28 KBFeb 18 21:43
DaemonFCEnder2070_, I may just switch over to SELinuxFeb 18 21:44
DaemonFCbeats trying to patch every kernel I make with AppArmorFeb 18 21:44
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Former Boss of #MySQL (Marten Mickos) Speaks About Business with #FreeSoftware http://ur1.ca/mpeoFeb 18 21:46
phIRCe-BNcTitle: CEO Interview:  Marten Mickos on how Open Source businesses can break through the $10-15 million plateau «  Olliance Group: Open Means Business .::. Size~: 37.22 KBFeb 18 21:46
DaemonFCI'd like to get an answer from Ubuntu why they continue to flog the dead horse that is AppArmorFeb 18 21:46
DaemonFCdevelopment on AppArmor stopped in 2008Feb 18 21:46
DaemonFCThey have an unfinished beta just sitting there that dates back to the middle of 2008Feb 18 21:46
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Palin's insidious, hypocritical elitism dissected http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/18/opinion/main6219664.shtml?tag=latest #gopFeb 18 21:47
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Sarah Palin: Closet Elitist? - CBS News .::. Size~: 73.5 KBFeb 18 21:47
DaemonFCWhy are they relying on a security framework that's not that great and has been abandoned?Feb 18 21:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Android and #Linux at #FOSDEM - Videos http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Video-Android-and-Linux-KernelFeb 18 21:48
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Video: Android and Linux Kernel  - Linux Magazine Online  .::. Size~: 31.36 KBFeb 18 21:48
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FreeSoftware in Education Advocated, Defended http://ur1.ca/mpf7 http://ur1.ca/mliz http://ur1.ca/mpf8Feb 18 21:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Hitler makes a YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CyzgOupqLgFeb 18 21:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Damned Lies and Statistics, FOSS Sexism and Education - Linux Magazine Online  .::. Size~: 32.09 KBFeb 18 21:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Computer Science Education Benefits from FLOSS - Bradley M. Kuhn ( Brad ) ( bkuhn ) .::. Size~: 27.47 KBFeb 18 21:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Open source is a restaurant where everyone is a chef | Open Source | ZDNet.com .::. Size~: 98.36 KBFeb 18 21:50
phIRCe-BNcTitle: YouTube- Hitler Makes a YouTube Video .::. Size~: 118.28 KBFeb 18 21:50
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @saintpaul007 Feb10, British High Court ruled MI5 officers were involved in ill-treatment of Binyam Mohamed http://bit.ly/dwRG6Z #uk #ciaFeb 18 21:51
phIRCe-BNcTitle: The Roots of the CIA's Rendition and Black Sites Program | World News |Axisoflogic.com .::. Size~: 50.11 KBFeb 18 21:51
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Mozilla Spreads in China, http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/blog/felten/mozilla-debates-whether-trust-chinese-caFeb 18 21:52
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Mozilla Debates Whether to Trust Chinese CA | Freedom to Tinker .::. Size~: 82.88 KBFeb 18 21:52
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] General Manager of the 'Trust'worthy Computing Group at #Microsoft Quits the Company! http://ur1.ca/mpfj more later...Feb 18 21:54
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[_the_mad_hatter] One word: HUGS! http://disq.us/ca6pfFeb 18 21:54
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsoft security guru jumps to Amazon in latest defection .::. Size~: 55.4 KBFeb 18 21:54
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schestowitzFurnaceBoy: what's the obsession with palin?Feb 18 21:54
schestowitzShe won't be elected. End of story. Move on, people :-)Feb 18 21:54
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: there's more to it than thatFeb 18 21:54
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: the is the latest state-of-the-art in politics of division -- a manipulation tacticFeb 18 21:55
FurnaceBoywe have to keep an eye on that and its manifestationsFeb 18 21:55
FurnaceBoyshe is*Feb 18 21:55
FurnaceBoyshe's like the Big Lie 2.0Feb 18 21:56
schestowitzhttp://identi.ca/notice/22436895Feb 18 21:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Jan Wildeboer (jwildeboer) 's status on Thursday, 18-Feb-10 21:41:58 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 8.2 KBFeb 18 21:56
schestowitz"@schestowitz MySQL != Free Software due to dual licensing. Mickos has cashed in on stock options, community is dead. Congrats."Feb 18 21:56
DaemonFChttp://forum.zomgstuff.net/showthread.php?p=209043#post209043Feb 18 21:56
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Fox News Hits an All Time Low - Page 2 - ZomgStuff Forum .::. Size~: 57.42 KBFeb 18 21:56
FurnaceBoywell...Feb 18 21:56
FurnaceBoyMickos never really claimed to support free software.Feb 18 21:57
schestowitzI knowFeb 18 21:57
FurnaceBoyHe has a blog post saying that he was hired to do a job, and he did it, and is out.Feb 18 21:57
schestowitzI corresponded with him a few timeFeb 18 21:57
schestowitzhe's more like AsayFeb 18 21:57
FurnaceBoyyesFeb 18 21:57
FurnaceBoyhe's businessFeb 18 21:57
schestowitzHow to make money while using some labelsFeb 18 21:57
DaemonFCschestowitz, I think you would like that :)Feb 18 21:58
FurnaceBoyseems like a decent person, thoughFeb 18 21:58
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: re Palin I spoke about it a few hoursFeb 18 21:58
schestowitz[not on the Net]Feb 18 21:58
FurnaceBoyshe's just a tool of other peopleFeb 18 21:58
schestowitzWhy is it that people typically ask questions like, "would you do her?" or "how old is she?"Feb 18 21:58
FurnaceBoybut, the chutzpah of the tactic is incredibleFeb 18 21:58
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: apparently some Americans find her attractive--- ridiculous but trueFeb 18 21:58
FurnaceBoyshe's utterly repellentFeb 18 21:58
FurnaceBoyin body and mindFeb 18 21:58
schestowitzIn reply I said she's just an attractive version of stupid politcians who doesn't speak well and appeals to some peopleFeb 18 21:59
schestowitzI don't think she's dumber than BushFeb 18 21:59
FurnaceBoyshe's the perfect tool to divideFeb 18 21:59
schestowitzBut Bush doesn't jot on his handsFeb 18 21:59
FurnaceBoyneither of them have any useful role in public life.Feb 18 21:59
FurnaceBoy*honest* public life.Feb 18 21:59
FurnaceBoybut they make perfect puppetsFeb 18 21:59
FurnaceBoyno brain.Feb 18 21:59
FurnaceBoyinsert hand: you have powerful sock puppet of divisionFeb 18 21:59
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: yes, I find her quite atractive tooFeb 18 22:00
FurnaceBoyugh, I don't.Feb 18 22:00
schestowitz_Goblin seems to like her a lotFeb 18 22:00
schestowitzShe's not my age groupFeb 18 22:00
FurnaceBoybut then, I have high standardsFeb 18 22:00
schestowitzI've dated some girls who look much betterFeb 18 22:00
FurnaceBoyi find her paintpeelingly hideous, the ideology is just the chaserFeb 18 22:00
schestowitzI guess Palin's stupidity is sometimes a little cuteFeb 18 22:00
schestowitz"Hey, honey, what paper do you read?"Feb 18 22:01
schestowitzHer: "all of them!!!"Feb 18 22:01
FurnaceBoyshe continues the American tradition of elevating worthless and destructive people to wealth and celebrityFeb 18 22:01
FurnaceBoyi'm sure she's pallin' around with GatesFeb 18 22:01
schestowitzI bet she reads Glamor and some tabloidsFeb 18 22:01
FurnaceBoyprobably keeps company w/ Arianna Feb 18 22:01
schestowitzThey might sometimes have some political columnsFeb 18 22:01
schestowitzLike...Feb 18 22:01
schestowitz"How to use your thighs to entice lobbyists" :-)Feb 18 22:02
FurnaceBoyanyway it continues the under-exposed tactic of putting women as mouthpieces for revolting ideas. Dana Perino, etc, etcFeb 18 22:02
schestowitzFurnaceBoy: Arianna was in that Alek BBC docuFeb 18 22:02
schestowitzThat's propaganda for Gates docu'Feb 18 22:02
FurnaceBoyoh, yeah, Melinda Gates.Feb 18 22:02
schestowitzShe was in itFeb 18 22:02
schestowitzRather underwhelming]Feb 18 22:02
FurnaceBoyspokeswoman to make a revolting ideology and programme seem humanisedFeb 18 22:03
schestowitzI was surprised... her English was weak tooFeb 18 22:03
FurnaceBoyactually Arianna being Greek was probably stunning when she was a bit younger. certainly no less attractive than Palin. ;-)Feb 18 22:03
schestowitzI don't know about MelindaFeb 18 22:03
schestowitzShe's just showing her face sometimesFeb 18 22:03
schestowitzShe's in WashPost boardFeb 18 22:03
FurnaceBoywell, we know Melinda is the softer, gentler face of the Foundation -- Davos panelsFeb 18 22:03
schestowitzI don't even know the names of the Gates childrenFeb 18 22:03
schestowitzNor do I care..Feb 18 22:03
FurnaceBoyGates is damaged goods, to some peopleFeb 18 22:04
schestowitzThey don't destory the world yet, unlike Gates Sr.Feb 18 22:04
schestowitzHe sets a lot of this upFeb 18 22:04
FurnaceBoyeasy, just have Melinda do the talking -- more misdirection from the agendaFeb 18 22:04
DaemonFC"Ubuntu (also known as Windows Linux Edition)"Feb 18 22:04
DaemonFChehFeb 18 22:04
schestowitzHe has THOIUSANDS of solicitaors in the USFeb 18 22:04
schestowitzHas had them for decades clearing hurdles for his sonFeb 18 22:04
*DaemonFC wonders if he wrote that part, it's been a while since he rewrote the Ubuntu articleFeb 18 22:04
schestowitzHe took money from SCO some years aogFeb 18 22:04
schestowitz*AgoFeb 18 22:04
schestowitzDid you know that?Feb 18 22:04
schestowitzLike some kind of legal proxy for Bill the DealFeb 18 22:04
schestowitz[22:04] <FurnaceBoy> easy, just have Melinda do the talking -- more misdirection from the agendaFeb 18 22:05
schestowitzalso harder to criticiseFeb 18 22:05
FurnaceBoyyes.Feb 18 22:05
schestowitzLike the female PR repFeb 18 22:05
FurnaceBoyDana PerinoFeb 18 22:05
schestowitzDistance form culpritFeb 18 22:05
schestowitzuse sexism as shieldFeb 18 22:05
FurnaceBoyyesFeb 18 22:05
FurnaceBoythis is an under-exposed tacticFeb 18 22:05
schestowitzYou can never see Ballmer and Pearly adsked hard questionFeb 18 22:05
schestowitzW-E and others preselect interviewerrsFeb 18 22:06
schestowitzThey build dossiers on themFeb 18 22:06
schestowitzAnd they make sure Bill and Stsve know the question and prepare an answer in advanceFeb 18 22:06
schestowitzI have some Comes memos that show thisFeb 18 22:06
schestowitzThey have "Communication" execs at MSFT managing thisFeb 18 22:06
FurnaceBoyComes is a goldmineFeb 18 22:06
schestowitzUsed to be some Cohen guyFeb 18 22:06
schestowitzCan't recall who it was that recently replaced himFeb 18 22:06
schestowitzI think it was some PR scum form W-EFeb 18 22:07
schestowitzHe quit within monthsFeb 18 22:07
schestowitzWent to some car company in Japan IIRCFeb 18 22:07
schestowitz"@jwildeboer re "CentOS is a derivative, not a clone. They have patches that RHT doesn't have." > weird. people call it "Clone""Feb 18 22:07
schestowitzYou'll enjoy that memoFeb 18 22:07
schestowitzLet me find itFeb 18 22:07
schestowitzTook me a long time to do the text by handFeb 18 22:08
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/12/larry-cohen-jumps-ship/Feb 18 22:08
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsofts Vice President of Spin Quits the Company | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 97.9 KBFeb 18 22:08
schestowitzHere he is quitingFeb 18 22:09
schestowitzThis is who replaced him: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/07/28/waggener-edstrom-comes-to-ms/Feb 18 22:09
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Brainwash Firm Waggener Edstrom and Microsoft Share More Staff (Updated) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 96.52 KBFeb 18 22:09
schestowitzI call him "Mr. "talking points" Cohen" http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/12/larry-cohen-jumps-ship/Feb 18 22:09
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsofts Vice President of Spin Quits the Company | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 97.97 KBFeb 18 22:09
schestowitzCOmes here: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/26/microsoft-talking-point-memos/Feb 18 22:10
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Microsofts “Talking Point” Memo and the Anti-GNU/Linux Studies | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 121.83 KBFeb 18 22:10
schestowitz"@schestowitz Good Collection of Linux Tutorials, glad you continue to include links like this, very useful for people like me."Feb 18 22:12
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] @satipera I used to omit them thinking they were the most redundantFeb 18 22:13
DaemonFCthey're still making token patches to CFQ to make desktop users think they care. How thoughtful.Feb 18 22:15
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schestowitzDaemonFC: why not do it simple?Feb 18 22:25
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ODF Alliance Newsletter: February 2009 http://boycottnovell.com/2010/02/18/odf-newsletter-february-2009/Feb 18 22:26
phIRCe-BNcTitle: ODF Alliance Newsletter: February 2009 | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 107.34 KBFeb 18 22:26
schestowitz"@schestowitz or scientific linux. Or whitebox. But at least we have derivatives. Unlike SuSE ..."Feb 18 22:26
schestowitz"@schestowitz People are wrong ;-) CentOS is not 100% identical. Ask CentOS. They will agree. Same with Oracle unfuckable Linux."Feb 18 22:26
DaemonFCI may try bfsFeb 18 22:29
DaemonFClooks like it can give the system a non-trivial kickFeb 18 22:30
FurnaceBoyhttp://www.alternet.org/rights/145719/cheney_confesses_to_serious_crimes_--_torture_is_just_the_beginning_Feb 18 22:36
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Cheney Confesses to Serious Crimes -- Torture Is Just the Beginning | Civil Liberties | AlterNet .::. Size~: 104.87 KBFeb 18 22:36
FurnaceBoyschestowitz: this about sums it up. http://twitter.com/Shoq/status/9304123639Feb 18 22:42
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Twitter / Shoq Value: I cannot believe these ign ... .::. Size~: 9.86 KBFeb 18 22:42
*FurnaceBoy puts the twitter down and steps back from the keyboardFeb 18 22:43
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] considering attending this year's !oggCamp...Feb 18 22:47
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] A Journalist's Guide to Firearms Identification http://flemco.livejournal.com/3262939.htmlFeb 18 22:49
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Adult Content Notice .::. Size~: 13.81 KBFeb 18 22:49
-BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] Not impressed by Caprica until now... Bring on the frakking Cylons!Feb 18 22:52
Ender2070_<DaemonFC> Ender2070_, I may just switch over to SELinuxFeb 18 22:53
Ender2070_i have no serious SELinux issues, it has a few things you need to be aware ofFeb 18 22:54
Ender2070_there was one command I had to run to let it install the nvidia driversFeb 18 22:54
DaemonFCEnder2070_, I patched the kernel with bfsFeb 18 22:54
Ender2070_LOLFeb 18 22:55
DaemonFCbut there's no option in the kernel config menus to select itFeb 18 22:55
Ender2070_are you sureFeb 18 22:55
DaemonFCyesFeb 18 22:55
Ender2070_check the scheduler optionsFeb 18 22:55
DaemonFCunder choose default I/O scheduler it gives me deadline, cfs, no-opFeb 18 22:55
Ender2070_hmmFeb 18 22:56
Ender2070_i wish i tried bfs myselfFeb 18 22:56
DaemonFCoh, it has an option at the top of general setupFeb 18 22:56
Ender2070_im sure its easy to doFeb 18 22:56
DaemonFCso what should I do about the schedulers?Feb 18 22:56
Ender2070_check the readme, im pretty sure they get disabledFeb 18 22:56
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schestowitz"@jwildeboer SLE* makes its code hardly accessible"Feb 18 23:00
DaemonFC"It's designed so that you just patch it in and use it. You shouldn't need to do anything at all."Feb 18 23:01
DaemonFCEnder2070_, I guess that means leave the I/O scheduler options alone?Feb 18 23:02
DaemonFCI guess it "preempts them" :)Feb 18 23:03
DaemonFCok, it's buildingFeb 18 23:05
DaemonFChz=1000, full preemption, RCU preemption, Tickless off, Brain Fuck Scheduler patched in, optimized for AMD, XFS driver built into the kernel imageFeb 18 23:06
DaemonFC*grin*Feb 18 23:06
DaemonFCoh, and I made modules out of Ext2/3/4, I never use them, but they're loaded should I have toFeb 18 23:07
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 23:07
Ender2070_what distro are you runningFeb 18 23:07
DaemonFCI must say that all that work on XFS in the last year has *really* made deleting thousands of small files much less painfulFeb 18 23:07
DaemonFCthat was really the only weak spotFeb 18 23:08
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Here Come Many More #Microsoft #Windows Attacks http://ur1.ca/mpo8 A lot of security headaches caused to lot of peopleFeb 18 23:08
phIRCe-BNcTitle: Here Come Many More Microsoft Windows Attacks | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 92.06 KBFeb 18 23:08
DaemonFCEnder2070_, Ubuntu 9.10Feb 18 23:08
Ender2070_<DaemonFC> that was really the only weak spotFeb 18 23:08
Ender2070_and power outagesFeb 18 23:08
DaemonFCwell, I meant performance-wiseFeb 18 23:08
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DaemonFCXFS has been really fast on everything but small file deletesFeb 18 23:08
DaemonFCwhere it was painfulFeb 18 23:08
DaemonFCnow it's mehFeb 18 23:08
Ender2070_the worst is when you lose data after a power failureFeb 18 23:08
DaemonFCthat's not a guaranteeFeb 18 23:09
Ender2070_did they fix that?Feb 18 23:09
DaemonFCI've lost power using XFS a few times and never lost anythingFeb 18 23:09
DaemonFCyeah, it's as fixed as it's going to beFeb 18 23:09
DaemonFCIt's probably at least as reliable as Ext4 *shrug*Feb 18 23:09
MinceRor you didn't yet realize that you've lost data :>Feb 18 23:09
DaemonFCsystem booted and worked fineFeb 18 23:09
MinceRdo they have ordered writes for XFS already?Feb 18 23:10
DaemonFCall my files were thereFeb 18 23:10
Ender2070_i know XFS is aimed more towards working on large filesFeb 18 23:10
MinceRor full journaling?Feb 18 23:10
DaemonFCMinceR, ordered has been the default for a while nowFeb 18 23:10
DaemonFCsince at least 2007 I thinkFeb 18 23:10
MinceRwhen XFS kills your data, the file is still there, but it's all zeroedFeb 18 23:10
MinceRicFeb 18 23:10
Ender2070_I had always thought people use XFS for temporary useFeb 18 23:10
DaemonFCWriteback = playing dice Feb 18 23:10
MinceRafaik ordered writes protect data just as well as full journalingFeb 18 23:10
Ender2070_speed while working on a large fileFeb 18 23:11
Ender2070_such as videoFeb 18 23:11
DaemonFCMinceR, Not as well, but full journal on Ext3/Ext4 might be considered "paranoid"Feb 18 23:11
DaemonFCespecially with the performance loss it bringsFeb 18 23:11
Ender2070_paranoid is raid-z :)Feb 18 23:11
Ender2070_without a performance hitFeb 18 23:11
MinceRparanoid is log-structured filesystem :>Feb 18 23:11
MinceRon raidFeb 18 23:12
DaemonFCone "feature" of XFS is that there's no way to undelete somethingFeb 18 23:12
MinceRwith regular backups off readonly snapshotsFeb 18 23:12
DaemonFCI asked Sandeen about this one time, if it would make it hard for law enforcement to retreive data, he said it would definitely be a pain in the ass anywayFeb 18 23:12
DaemonFCbut he still recommended at least 1 pass with shredFeb 18 23:12
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DaemonFCMinceR, full journaling makes it more likely that some of your deleted data is easier to retrieveFeb 18 23:14
DaemonFCthat can be a good thing if it is YOU trying to get itFeb 18 23:14
DaemonFCit's way easier to kill some files if you use ordered metadata-only journalingFeb 18 23:15
MinceRyes, XFS demonstrated that to me :>Feb 18 23:15
DaemonFClmaoFeb 18 23:15
DaemonFCwell, sometimes being easily able to trash data is a good thingFeb 18 23:15
DaemonFCbesides, any sane person uses the Trash canFeb 18 23:16
DaemonFCno undelete is really only a threat if you get trigger happy with rmFeb 18 23:16
Ender2070_it depends on which level of law enforcement you are talking aboutFeb 18 23:17
DaemonFCI don't know, all I'm saying is that I trust XFS at least as much as Ext4 and I haven't lost data to itFeb 18 23:17
Ender2070_im sure that various militaries can crack anything out thereFeb 18 23:17
DaemonFCEnder2070_, Local police, Barney Fife....Feb 18 23:17
DaemonFClolFeb 18 23:17
Ender2070_zip encyption might fool them thenFeb 18 23:18
DaemonFClet him walk around with one bullet just to make him feel better about himself :DFeb 18 23:18
Ender2070_the fbi for example claims it uses a beowulf cluster of 7 Playstation 3's to crack the hard drives of suspected owners of child pornFeb 18 23:18
DaemonFCEnder2070_, If they send your PC off to the FBI you might be in troubleFeb 18 23:19
Ender2070_thats just for encryptionFeb 18 23:19
Ender2070_deleted files is even easierFeb 18 23:19
DaemonFCI personally have a shell script I can run quickly if I need to that shreds my home folderFeb 18 23:19
DaemonFC:DFeb 18 23:19
Ender2070_they take the disk apart in a clean roomFeb 18 23:19
Ender2070_they have tools that will read off the surface of the magnetic diskFeb 18 23:20
DaemonFCyeahFeb 18 23:20
DaemonFCI always destroy a hard disk before getting rid of itFeb 18 23:20
DaemonFCI don't care who you are, you're not getting data off itFeb 18 23:20
Ender2070_your only guaranteed solution is probably thermite, thought i'm not sure if thats legalFeb 18 23:20
FurnaceBoyMinceR: DaemonFC there's no real way to solve the integrity problem on a write-in-place systemFeb 18 23:21
FurnaceBoyfirst , you need copy-on-write; then you want checksums, redundancy, and atomic transactions.Feb 18 23:22
DaemonFCEnder2070_, One drive I shredded all the files on it 12 passes, broke the head off of it, passed a degaussing magnet over it several times, scretched the platter up, then poured lighter fluid on it and burned itFeb 18 23:22
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 23:22
Ender2070_or other ways of physically destroying the disk beyond recoveryFeb 18 23:22
FurnaceBoyall conventional filesystems, and hardware raid, trust integrity to dumb luck. Feb 18 23:22
Ender2070_I remember though reading an article about the US military having their shit rigged with thermite in case the plane it was on crashed in some other country.Feb 18 23:22
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DaemonFCEnder2070_, Good ideaFeb 18 23:23
Ender2070_there was that one incident where a US plane crashed in China, and I don't think they ever got it backFeb 18 23:23
FurnaceBoyhehe yes i remember thatFeb 18 23:23
DaemonFCEnder2070_, We didFeb 18 23:23
DaemonFCthe Chinese dismantled it and sent it back to us in piecesFeb 18 23:23
Ender2070_LOLFeb 18 23:23
FurnaceBoyLOLFeb 18 23:23
DaemonFCbut we *did* get it backFeb 18 23:23
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: i bet the warranty was void Feb 18 23:24
Ender2070_now they have thermiteFeb 18 23:24
Ender2070_lolFeb 18 23:24
DaemonFCEnder2070_, Clinton deliberately let stuff like that happenFeb 18 23:24
DaemonFClike the spy satellite he let them launch which "crashed"Feb 18 23:24
DaemonFCand we had to change all our codesFeb 18 23:24
Ender2070_did they steal the ACS module?Feb 18 23:24
DaemonFCwho knows what survived, but they wouldn't tell us if anything didFeb 18 23:25
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: they stole the freakin flux capacitorFeb 18 23:25
DaemonFCso we had to change our access codes anywayFeb 18 23:25
Ender2070_lol modern warfare 2 jokeFeb 18 23:25
DaemonFCcost millions of dollarsFeb 18 23:25
FurnaceBoyEnder2070_: and the dilithium crystalsFeb 18 23:25
DaemonFCClinton should be lynchedFeb 18 23:25
Ender2070_now you can get copies for $1.00Feb 18 23:25
DaemonFCClinton was a treasonous bastard in so many waysFeb 18 23:26
DaemonFCand they impeach him for getting a blowjobFeb 18 23:26
Ender2070_they all areFeb 18 23:26
Ender2070_nah he probably pulled rank too many times so they took him outFeb 18 23:27
DaemonFCI was actually hoping the Senate wouldn't convict himFeb 18 23:27
DaemonFCthe president owould have been Al Gore, ewwwFeb 18 23:27
DaemonFCmaybe that's why they didn'tFeb 18 23:27
Ender2070_yeah, and he would put in all those stupid green lawsFeb 18 23:27
DaemonFCI wouldn't vote for himFeb 18 23:28
DaemonFCthe 2000 "election" was kind of like, no matter who won, we would loseFeb 18 23:28
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: almost.Feb 18 23:28
DaemonFCbut I have a hard time saying I liked Bush any better :)Feb 18 23:28
Ender2070_it doesnt really matter who gets electedFeb 18 23:28
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: if that had been true, there would have been no need for the Supreme Court charade.Feb 18 23:28
Ender2070_the lobbyists dont changeFeb 18 23:28
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: Al Gore was apparently the last uncontrolled Presidential candidateFeb 18 23:28
DaemonFCFurnaceBoy, he's controlledFeb 18 23:29
DaemonFChe's one of the bad guys Feb 18 23:29
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: then why bother with the miscounting?Feb 18 23:29
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: and the Supreme Court bullshit?Feb 18 23:29
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: high riskFeb 18 23:29
Ender2070_i wouldn't have voted bush eitherFeb 18 23:29
DaemonFChe's investing in all kinds of "green" shit  and then trying to get green laws passed so we all have to buy the shit he ownsFeb 18 23:29
Ender2070_if i was americanFeb 18 23:29
DaemonFChe's very biasedFeb 18 23:29
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: lowest risk is to run only controlled candidates, they fixed it by 2004/2008Feb 18 23:29
DaemonFChe stands to make billions if the fabricated "environmental" laws go into effectFeb 18 23:30
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: perhaps you're unclear what i mean by controlled...Feb 18 23:30
Ender2070_taxing people for the "sin" of breathingFeb 18 23:30
DaemonFCEnder2070_, Taxing them to death to heat their homes for crying out loudFeb 18 23:30
DaemonFCbut don't tax those rich people for their V12 Mercedes nowFeb 18 23:31
DaemonFCriiiiiiightFeb 18 23:31
Ender2070_microsoft pays less than 1% taxFeb 18 23:31
DaemonFCWhy don't they have to pay for anything they do?Feb 18 23:31
Ender2070_bush helped lower itFeb 18 23:31
DaemonFCI'll agree to a green tax when it's impossible for rich people to evade their fair shareFeb 18 23:32
DaemonFChow's that?Feb 18 23:32
Ender2070_microsoft should be at 20%Feb 18 23:32
DaemonFCat leastFeb 18 23:32
Ender2070_they shouldn't be getting tax breaks for running a monopolyFeb 18 23:32
DaemonFCthey should be at 39% actuallyFeb 18 23:32
Ender2070_*should*Feb 18 23:33
DaemonFClike they were in the top tax bracket for rich people, pre-bushFeb 18 23:33
FurnaceBoylet's hope we can look back and say 2010 is the worst it gotFeb 18 23:33
Ender2070_at *LEAST* 20%Feb 18 23:33
Ender2070_not 0.5%Feb 18 23:33
Ender2070_especially when their OS causes pc's to suck more energy, putting extra pressure on world resourcesFeb 18 23:34
DaemonFCWashington state is drowning in debt and Microsoft doesn't have to pay their state taxes eitherFeb 18 23:34
DaemonFCbought all the right politiciansFeb 18 23:34
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: schestowitz http://salon.com/ent/comics/tom_the_dancing_bug/2010/02/17/tom_the_dancing_bugFeb 18 23:34
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  - Salon.com .::. Size~: 46.15 KBFeb 18 23:34
DaemonFChttp://forum.zomgstuff.net/showthread.php?t=21436Feb 18 23:35
phIRCe-BNcTitle:  Airplane Crashes into IRS Building - ZomgStuff Forum .::. Size~: 78.84 KBFeb 18 23:35
DaemonFCheheFeb 18 23:35
Ender2070_they get tax breaks, they get a monopoly which allows them to output less and less at higher prices upon each releaseFeb 18 23:36
Ender2070_gives them lots of cash which they spend recklesslyFeb 18 23:37
Ender2070_such as buying search resultsFeb 18 23:37
DaemonFCstill running Bing ds like crazyFeb 18 23:38
DaemonFCbought one during the superbowl evenFeb 18 23:38
DaemonFCyou know that was priceyFeb 18 23:38
Ender2070_they are losing millionsFeb 18 23:38
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: about 35 seconds' revenueFeb 18 23:38
DaemonFCtheir usage share is stuck around 3% no matter what they doFeb 18 23:38
Ender2070_i think they got 10%Feb 18 23:38
Ender2070_at the cost of many millions of dollarsFeb 18 23:38
DaemonFCEnder2070_, You have to count Yahell to get to 10%Feb 18 23:38
Ender2070_it was approved was it not?Feb 18 23:39
DaemonFClots of people use Yahell not knowing it's BingFeb 18 23:39
DaemonFCnot the mergerFeb 18 23:39
Ender2070_Ubuntu will be powered indirectly by BingFeb 18 23:39
DaemonFCthey're using Bing as their backend thoughFeb 18 23:39
DaemonFCEnder2070_, Maybe it's not a bad thing, who knows?Feb 18 23:39
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Hey, #Bing, you at double digits yet? #microsoft #hahahaFeb 18 23:40
Ender2070_I would say it isFeb 18 23:40
DaemonFCwell, it won't up their usage share more than a tenth of a percent or soFeb 18 23:40
DaemonFCsearch ads are blocked by Adblock PlusFeb 18 23:40
DaemonFCand they'll probably pay out to Canonical more than they make on the adsFeb 18 23:40
DaemonFCthey probably had to pay Canonical an up front sumFeb 18 23:40
Ender2070_they are never going to make money on itFeb 18 23:40
DaemonFCthat's a guess thoughFeb 18 23:40
Ender2070_still, by using it I am allowing its existanceFeb 18 23:41
DaemonFCEnder2070_, think of it as a cloud with a silver liningFeb 18 23:41
Ender2070_I would rather use googleFeb 18 23:41
DaemonFCI can't stretch my imagination to the point of this helping Yahell/MS more than they paid for itFeb 18 23:41
DaemonFCwatch it fall apart within a year or twoFeb 18 23:42
DaemonFCCanonical walks away with a few million dollarsFeb 18 23:42
DaemonFCand Bing collapsesFeb 18 23:42
Ender2070_if people actually use bing then the mere activity prevents ms from putting it down like a diseased animalFeb 18 23:42
DaemonFCit could go down like that, right?Feb 18 23:42
DaemonFC CC [M]  drivers/net/usb/zaurus.oFeb 18 23:43
DaemonFCheheFeb 18 23:43
DaemonFCthere you goFeb 18 23:43
Ender2070_other than that though, google provides far superior resultsFeb 18 23:43
DaemonFCyeahFeb 18 23:44
DaemonFCmost people will flip it back to Google and forget all about YahBingFeb 18 23:44
Ender2070_it also works very nicely with chromiumFeb 18 23:44
DaemonFC:)Feb 18 23:44
Ender2070_whenever I use firefox I am disorientedFeb 18 23:44
*sebsebseb (~3seb@unaffiliated/sebsebseb) has joined #boycottnovellFeb 18 23:44
DaemonFCit's not so badFeb 18 23:44
Ender2070_not being able to type search queries into the location barFeb 18 23:44
DaemonFCyou canFeb 18 23:45
sebsebseb Feb 18 23:45
Ender2070_not by defaultFeb 18 23:45
DaemonFCyes, you canFeb 18 23:45
DaemonFCby defaultFeb 18 23:45
sebsebsebMinceR:  Feb 18 23:45
Ender2070_oh you canFeb 18 23:45
Ender2070_3.6 added it right?Feb 18 23:45
DaemonFCunless you have Comcast and they typojack you to YahellFeb 18 23:45
DaemonFCI turned the typojacking offFeb 18 23:45
DaemonFCand Firefox works right againFeb 18 23:46
Ender2070_my isp does that too actuallyFeb 18 23:46
MinceRsebsebseb: Feb 18 23:46
Ender2070_it gives a customized google search with its own adsenseFeb 18 23:46
DaemonFCyupFeb 18 23:46
DaemonFCturn it off?Feb 18 23:46
Ender2070_and bell logosFeb 18 23:47
DaemonFCoptout?Feb 18 23:47
Ender2070_when you turn it off from its config it just displays a fake browser error message insteadFeb 18 23:47
Ender2070_depending on your browserFeb 18 23:47
DaemonFCniceFeb 18 23:47
Ender2070_i have to use opendnsFeb 18 23:47
DaemonFCfull of ads?Feb 18 23:47
Ender2070_no adsFeb 18 23:47
Ender2070_but its fakeFeb 18 23:47
Ender2070_its not firefox's real dns error messageFeb 18 23:48
*ThistleWeb has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)Feb 18 23:48
Ender2070_its off a bitFeb 18 23:48
Ender2070_and for IE you get the old ie6 dns messageFeb 18 23:48
*silentivm has quit (Remote host closed the connection)Feb 18 23:48
DaemonFClmaoFeb 18 23:48
Ender2070_opera gets you whatever your ident string isFeb 18 23:48
DaemonFCeven on IE 8?Feb 18 23:49
Ender2070_yeahFeb 18 23:49
DaemonFCwhy do they do that?Feb 18 23:49
DaemonFCoff means OFF goddammit!Feb 18 23:49
DaemonFC:DFeb 18 23:49
Ender2070_to make it look like they arent still hijacking youFeb 18 23:49
Ender2070_basicly, when you turn it offFeb 18 23:49
DaemonFCwhat's the point?Feb 18 23:49
Ender2070_it gives you a cookieFeb 18 23:49
DaemonFCno ads, no moneyFeb 18 23:49
Ender2070_when you type in a typo address, it still hijacks and goes to domainnotfound.ca but the cookie tells it to send you a fake dns error message insteadFeb 18 23:50
Ender2070_so you cant even turn it off for all the pc'sFeb 18 23:50
Ender2070_your relatives may earn them moneyFeb 18 23:50
Ender2070_or anyone you share wireless withFeb 18 23:50
DaemonFCdamnFeb 18 23:51
Ender2070_i had to configure my router for opendnsFeb 18 23:51
DaemonFCIt's more Comcastic than ComcastFeb 18 23:51
Ender2070_Rogers does it tooFeb 18 23:51
DaemonFCComcast is trying to make typojacking an IETF "standard"Feb 18 23:51
FurnaceBoy:(Feb 18 23:52
Ender2070_if you clear your cookies regularly it comes backFeb 18 23:53
Ender2070_so lameFeb 18 23:53
Ender2070_its just as bad as paying for tv and having to watch commercialsFeb 18 23:53
FurnaceBoyDaemonFC: rebranding to Xfinity per this week's /. storyFeb 18 23:54
DaemonFCEnder2070_, Set Firefox to not allow the cookiesFeb 18 23:54
DaemonFCsite prefsFeb 18 23:54
Ender2070_then it will never turn offFeb 18 23:54
sebsebsebMinceR:  Feb 18 23:55
-BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New Study Confirms That #Vista7 is Bloated http://boycottnovell.com/2010/02/18/vista-7-memory-hog/Feb 18 23:55
phIRCe-BNcTitle: New Study Confirms That Vista 7 is Bloated | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 87.74 KBFeb 18 23:55
Ender2070_it requires a cookie to get the fake error messageFeb 18 23:55
Ender2070_otherwise you generate them ad revenue with their custom searchFeb 18 23:55
DaemonFCEnder2070_, HOSTS file?Feb 18 23:56
Ender2070_you could do thatFeb 18 23:56
Ender2070_but its easier just to setup opendnsFeb 18 23:56
Ender2070_then you dont have to make a HOSTS on each users pcFeb 18 23:56
DaemonFClmao Andy Tannenbaum: "The PDP-11 ran at about 1 Mhz and booted in 5 seconds, modern PCs run at about 3,000 Mhz and boot in about 5 minutes"Feb 18 23:58
DaemonFCniceFeb 18 23:58
Ender2070_bloatFeb 18 23:59
DaemonFCyeahFeb 18 23:59
DaemonFCUbuntu boots in about 25 secondsFeb 18 23:59
DaemonFCVists boots in about 1 minuteFeb 18 23:59

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