| bruce89 | that's nice, but I still won't vote for them | Mar 03 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| sebsebseb | bruce89 and you won't vote for Labour, so you vote Liberal Democrat? | Mar 03 00:00 |
| MinceR | perhaps m$ wants to turn novell into a genuine subsidiary? :> | Mar 03 00:00 |
| _goblin | sebsebseb, interesting...but can't comment. | Mar 03 00:00 |
| sebsebseb | _goblin why not? | Mar 03 00:00 |
| _goblin | Im not supposed to discuss politics. | Mar 03 00:00 |
| sebsebseb | _goblin Since you work for the goverment? | Mar 03 00:01 |
| _goblin | I know Im anon, but I take that "promise" very seriously. | Mar 03 00:01 |
| _goblin | sebsebseb, can I pm you? | Mar 03 00:01 |
| sebsebseb | _goblin of course | Mar 03 00:01 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: unlikely MS does not want to become directly linked to GPLv3 or GPLv2 so risking removing there patent arms. | Mar 03 00:02 |
| bruce89 | sebsebseb: no | Mar 03 00:02 |
| MinceR | ic | Mar 03 00:02 |
| MinceR | or perhaps a big player got tired of the crap m$ was pulling via novell? | Mar 03 00:02 |
| oiaohm | I would put liquidation of assets as number 1. MinceR | Mar 03 00:03 |
| MinceR | well, liquidation would do that | Mar 03 00:03 |
| oiaohm | At 2 billion dollars lot of different Linux support companies could of raised that but its the wrong time. | Mar 03 00:03 |
| oiaohm | Ie let SCO be 100 percent dead first. | Mar 03 00:03 |
| oiaohm | Heck the Linux foundation could of even raised 2 billion. | Mar 03 00:04 |
| schestowitz | Don't forget the WOrdPErfect lawsuit | Mar 03 00:04 |
| MinceR | what if they just hold on to it until sco dies? | Mar 03 00:04 |
| MinceR | or perhaps something's going to happen to sco too? | Mar 03 00:04 |
| oiaohm | Hmm | Mar 03 00:04 |
| oiaohm | Maybe IBM wants Novell out way so it can toast SCO. | Mar 03 00:05 |
| MinceR | :) | Mar 03 00:05 |
| oiaohm | Really from IBM point of view Novell started the SCO mess. | Mar 03 00:05 |
| oiaohm | With a deceptive sale to SCO | Mar 03 00:05 |
| oiaohm | Get rid of both companies would be good for IBM. | Mar 03 00:06 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell May be Going Private, Hedge Fund Has Cash http://ur1.ca/o68b Novell takeover? Need I rename the site? | Mar 03 00:10 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Novell May be Going Private, Hedge Fund Has Cash | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 80.61 KB | Mar 03 00:10 |
| schestowitz | No wonder Novell managers were fleeing | Mar 03 00:12 |
| ianto | oiaohm: How much money do you think that the Linux Foundation are actually making? :S | Mar 03 00:13 |
| oiaohm | Not making could raise simple enough. ianto | Mar 03 00:14 |
| oiaohm | Linux foundation is never short of money to do stuff ianto | Mar 03 00:14 |
| ianto | oiaohm: Sorry as a second language English speaker I don't understand your 1st sentence, elaborate | Mar 03 00:15 |
| ianto | oiaohm: Yeah minor things, I doubt they raise/make more than 20mil/year at all to be honest | Mar 03 00:15 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Here is the discussion so far about #Novell being bought, potentially, by some rather obscure firm http://ur1.ca/o692 02 23:15:48 | Mar 03 00:17 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 2nd, 2010 .::. Size~: 750.08 KB | Mar 03 00:17 |
| oiaohm | ianto: People forget why the Linux Foundation formed. It formed to pay Linus because he got insane offers of over 1 billion dollar income a year. | Mar 03 00:17 |
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| oiaohm | If linux foundation wanted to raise 2 billion dollars to sort something out they could. | Mar 03 00:18 |
| oiaohm | Most of the time Linux Foundation does not take money. Instead companies employee people Linux foundation finds working on open source who need full time jobs to improve there productivity. | Mar 03 00:20 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: I'm not sure LF was *Created* for this reason | Mar 03 00:21 |
| schestowitz | See OSDL announcement | Mar 03 00:21 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: not possible | Mar 03 00:21 |
| schestowitz | They could not buy NOVEL | Mar 03 00:21 |
| oiaohm | schestowitz: Linux foundation idea first appears in the Linux kernel mailing lists. | Mar 03 00:21 |
| schestowitz | NOVL | Mar 03 00:21 |
| schestowitz | It's proprietary | Mar 03 00:21 |
| schestowitz | makes no sense | Mar 03 00:22 |
| schestowitz | And in bed with Ballmer | Mar 03 00:22 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: foundation attract funds | Mar 03 00:22 |
| oiaohm | Before the OSDL announcement. | Mar 03 00:22 |
| schestowitz | Like X and Mozilla, even Wikipedia | Mar 03 00:22 |
| schestowitz | Wikimedia | Mar 03 00:22 |
| oiaohm | If novell was a big enough threat to the Linux eco system Linux foundation would have a reason. | Mar 03 00:23 |
| oiaohm | And the members of it would most likely chip in to neturalise threat. | Mar 03 00:23 |
| MinceR | if only they bought and liquidated m$ | Mar 03 00:23 |
| oiaohm | MS is not weak enough to liquidate yet. | Mar 03 00:24 |
| schestowitz | re http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/03/01/214246/Google-Acquires-Online-Image-Editing-Tool-Picnik | Mar 03 00:24 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot Technology Story | Google Acquires Online Image Editing Tool Picnik .::. Size~: 128.85 KB | Mar 03 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Does MS have an image editor that's decent? | Mar 03 00:24 |
| schestowitz | Around 2006 it pondered competitng with Photoshops | Mar 03 00:25 |
| oiaohm | One thing MS has never made. schestowitz | Mar 03 00:25 |
| schestowitz | *shop | Mar 03 00:25 |
| schestowitz | It was called off | Mar 03 00:25 |
| oiaohm | gimp with its old nightmare interface was more usable than MS offering. | Mar 03 00:25 |
| schestowitz | Google could enable Docs users to draw diagrams online | Mar 03 00:25 |
| schestowitz | This ought to make Adobe -- not just Microsoft--worry | Mar 03 00:25 |
| schestowitz | Adobe already makes Web-bsed PS | Mar 03 00:25 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: what about Jobs' gang | Mar 03 00:26 |
| schestowitz | They too use swpays vs Linux | Mar 03 00:26 |
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| schestowitz | To Mac Asay's chagrin | Mar 03 00:26 |
| oiaohm | The purposes of this corporation include promoting, protecting, and standardizing Linux and open source software. << From the Linux foundation bylaws. | Mar 03 00:27 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: i'm not sure, but i suppose we'd quickly see what's up after the end of m$ | Mar 03 00:27 |
| oiaohm | People forget part of the Linux foundations existance is protection of open source. | Mar 03 00:27 |
| MinceR | i wonder if crApple would ever seriously try to compete with GNU/Linux, considering how they're staying away from business use cases | Mar 03 00:28 |
| oiaohm | They have attempted business use cases many times. People forget the apple attempts. MinceR | Mar 03 00:29 |
| MinceR | i certainly did | Mar 03 00:29 |
| MinceR | was jobs in charge when those happened? | Mar 03 00:29 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Mar 03 00:29 |
| oiaohm | OS X server that not doing that well. | Mar 03 00:30 |
| MinceR | then it's likely that crApple would have to be liquidated too | Mar 03 00:30 |
| oiaohm | http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/ << guess never seen this. MinceR | Mar 03 00:31 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Apple - Mac OS X Server Snow Leopard .::. Size~: 13.55 KB | Mar 03 00:31 |
| oiaohm | The box is nice | Mar 03 00:31 |
| MinceR | well, i've seen some attempts at servers | Mar 03 00:31 |
| MinceR | but they always seemed to be half-assed | Mar 03 00:31 |
| MinceR | servers aren't necessarily for business, i guess | Mar 03 00:32 |
| oiaohm | It there attempts | Mar 03 00:32 |
| oiaohm | They are designed to provide everything businesses could want. | Mar 03 00:33 |
| oiaohm | But just build around different ie Mac style interfaces. | Mar 03 00:33 |
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| oiaohm | Lacking ADS kinda stuffs the OS X Server since you have to pay 499 for it. | Mar 03 00:34 |
| oiaohm | And Linux with equal function is out there for free. | Mar 03 00:34 |
| MinceR | (flash) (video) (audio) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nej4xJe4Tdg | Mar 03 00:35 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- "Weird Al" Yankovic - Bob .::. Size~: 127.51 KB | Mar 03 00:35 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft wants net tax now | Mar 03 00:36 |
| schestowitz | For 'cleaning' PCs | Mar 03 00:36 |
| schestowitz | Their govt. guy proposes it | Mar 03 00:37 |
| schestowitz | Shameful cronies | Mar 03 00:37 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] @schestowitz remember that Novell has been bought by obscure firms once, or was it twice? before! | Mar 03 00:38 | |
| oiaohm | Really the australian idea is better. | Mar 03 00:42 |
| oiaohm | You are detected running infected machine by by internet connection until you short it out. | Mar 03 00:42 |
| oiaohm | sort | Mar 03 00:42 |
| MinceR | except for the whole censorship business :> | Mar 03 00:43 |
| schestowitz | Conrobocop | Mar 03 00:43 |
| schestowitz | Conrobocop on conroids | Mar 03 00:43 |
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| oiaohm | Even the USA is now looking at regulating the internet. | Mar 03 00:47 |
| oiaohm | All wild wests come to a end at some point. | Mar 03 00:47 |
| MinceR | at least in police states | Mar 03 00:49 |
| oiaohm | No it always does. MinceR | Mar 03 00:49 |
| oiaohm | Its just a question of when. | Mar 03 00:50 |
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| yuhong | On Twitter bots, here is an article on Slashdot: | Mar 03 00:51 |
| yuhong | http://it.slashdot.org/story/09/08/14/1828248/Twitter-Used-To-Control-Botnet-Machines | Mar 03 00:51 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot IT Story | Twitter Used To Control Botnet Machines .::. Size~: 132.25 KB | Mar 03 00:51 |
| oiaohm | Bot nets will use anything as there central control. | Mar 03 00:51 |
| yuhong | Yep, but BN mentioned Twitter bots before. | Mar 03 00:52 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: well, our beloved leaders worldwide seem to have realized there was way too much freedom of speech for their taste | Mar 03 00:53 |
| MinceR | so here comes the police state | Mar 03 00:53 |
| oiaohm | Its not exactly that. MinceR | Mar 03 00:53 |
| MinceR | can't have people discuss their ideas freely in a supposed democracy, now can we? | Mar 03 00:53 |
| oiaohm | It crime too much freedom that becomes a problem. | Mar 03 00:54 |
| MinceR | can't let them make their decisions for themselves | Mar 03 00:54 |
| MinceR | yeah, "too much freedom" | Mar 03 00:54 |
| MinceR | too little bleating, going too far out of line | Mar 03 00:54 |
| oiaohm | Same reason why shaffs appear. | Mar 03 00:54 |
| dyfet | "too much freedom" sounds almost orwellian | Mar 03 00:54 |
| yuhong | I know. | Mar 03 00:54 |
| oiaohm | If you give people the means todo anythign without bad outcomes. | Mar 03 00:55 |
| oiaohm | Crime happens. | Mar 03 00:55 |
| MinceR | so we just give the "leaders" the means to do anything because they're perfect characters | Mar 03 00:55 |
| oiaohm | Ie if there was no punishment for stealing why not. | Mar 03 00:55 |
| dyfet | That is because freedom IS responsibility, not greed | Mar 03 00:55 |
| MinceR | oh wait | Mar 03 00:55 |
| MinceR | yeah, the state never steals | Mar 03 00:55 |
| MinceR | like the hungarian government didn't give m$ a lot of tax money, no sir! | Mar 03 00:55 |
| oiaohm | Ie freedom without responsiblity is bad. | Mar 03 00:55 |
| schestowitz | [00:52] <yuhong> Yep, but BN mentioned Twitter bots before. | Mar 03 00:56 |
| schestowitz | We did | Mar 03 00:56 |
| MinceR | apparently the australian government has freedom without responsibility | Mar 03 00:56 |
| schestowitz | it's just message passing | Mar 03 00:56 |
| dyfet | oiaohm: you mean greed without responsibility, ie corporations | Mar 03 00:56 |
| MinceR | that's why they have internet censorship | Mar 03 00:56 |
| schestowitz | Slashdot carries garbage again | Mar 03 00:56 |
| yuhong | Yea, that is what inspires me to mention this in the first place. | Mar 03 00:56 |
| oiaohm | They have to answer for it at the vote. MinceR | Mar 03 00:56 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: unless they manage to brainwash the masses until then. | Mar 03 00:57 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: guess what the control over all channels of information is for. | Mar 03 00:57 |
| yuhong | Italy is particularly bad, BTW. | Mar 03 00:57 |
| dyfet | Freedom is a human birthright, not some revokable right on a piece of paper | Mar 03 00:57 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: brainwash the masses into supporting whatever you want to do and then let them 'vote' for it | Mar 03 00:57 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: awesome weird al video. saw it a while back, nice to enjoy again :) | Mar 03 00:57 |
| MinceR | i'm with dyfet | Mar 03 00:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: there is no vote. both sides are fielded | Mar 03 00:58 |
| MinceR | that's the other issue | Mar 03 00:58 |
| yuhong | And I mention it because recently Google execs was convicted there over a YouTube video on a six-month suspended sentence. | Mar 03 00:58 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: Really the australian media rating system needs fixing. Using the internet to bipass has always been illegal. | Mar 03 00:58 |
| MinceR | when the two major parties are doing the exact same thing | Mar 03 00:58 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: deliberately | Mar 03 00:58 |
| MinceR | and the masses only consider voting for either | Mar 03 00:58 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: how will it get fixed while people bypass. | Mar 03 00:59 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: perhaps these greedy control freaks need to be killed | Mar 03 00:59 |
| MinceR | and if others stand in their place, they need to be killed too | Mar 03 00:59 |
| MinceR | perhaps then we could have a society that wasn't a living hell | Mar 03 00:59 |
| MinceR | i'm sure internet censorship will reach me eventually, just like all the previous idiocies | Mar 03 01:00 |
| FurnaceBoy | our system has been hacked, exploited. we're told it is one thing, the democracy myth, but it is not that thing. | Mar 03 01:00 |
| oiaohm | Every country has a media rating system. MinceR | Mar 03 01:00 |
| schestowitz | FurnaceBoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIrGPKka_qE&feature=grec | Mar 03 01:00 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Noam Chomsky Comments on the Work of No More Victims .::. Size~: 90.63 KB | Mar 03 01:00 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: the question is who decides whether i can access a given work at all | Mar 03 01:00 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: more free countries only put a recommendation on media, instead of forbidding sales | Mar 03 01:01 |
| oiaohm | Even the USA forbids some. MinceR | Mar 03 01:01 |
| oiaohm | Ie child porn and snuff movies. | Mar 03 01:01 |
| MinceR | the usa is not a "free" country | Mar 03 01:02 |
| MinceR | it's a testing ground for the newest restrictive laws | Mar 03 01:02 |
| oiaohm | Some classes are not allowed anywhere. MinceR | Mar 03 01:02 |
| MinceR | WCT, ACTA, etc. | Mar 03 01:02 |
| oiaohm | Just for the simple fact there production is harmful. | Mar 03 01:02 |
| dyfet | The united states is slowly being converted into one large reservation as far as I am concerned | Mar 03 01:02 |
| MinceR | (and i don't care if they call it a "treaty" or some other bullshit, if it's enforced against me, it's effectively law) | Mar 03 01:03 |
| oiaohm | But australia has some sucky laws when it comes to computer games. | Mar 03 01:03 |
| MinceR | yes, when it comes to computer games | Mar 03 01:03 |
| MinceR | and when it comes to internet access, apparently | Mar 03 01:03 |
| oiaohm | Ie no nudity at all there is no rating high enough on Australia computer games. | Mar 03 01:03 |
| MinceR | and probably when it comes to movies | Mar 03 01:03 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: sorry got distracted with this. hadn't seen it before. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_TfBbR6L0M&NR=1 | Mar 03 01:03 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- "Weird Al" Yankovic - Canadian Idiot .::. Size~: 141.2 KB | Mar 03 01:03 |
| oiaohm | Moves are not too bad we have upto R18+ MinceR | Mar 03 01:03 |
| oiaohm | Basically if it a movie and it acceptable by most of the world it can get in. | Mar 03 01:04 |
| oiaohm | Computer game your screwed. | Mar 03 01:04 |
| oiaohm | Basically our rating system needs fixing. And that will not happen while people bypass. | Mar 03 01:04 |
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| MinceR | yes, your laws need fixing | Mar 03 01:05 |
| MinceR | and Jesusland's laws and practices need fixing before they force more of their stupid crap on the country i live in. | Mar 03 01:05 |
| oiaohm | Basically from a free speech point of view Australia not too bad. From free production of media its not great. | Mar 03 01:06 |
| FurnaceBoy | schestowitz: watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJBBdoZVk9Q&feature=related | Mar 03 01:06 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Cole Miller talks about No More Victims .::. Size~: 137.6 KB | Mar 03 01:06 |
| MinceR | internet censorship is "not too bad"? | Mar 03 01:06 |
| MinceR | censorship of video games is "not too bad"? | Mar 03 01:06 |
| MinceR | how much censorship would be "too bad" for you? | Mar 03 01:07 |
| oiaohm | The internet censorship is targeted against unrate able content. | Mar 03 01:07 |
| dyfet | When people trade responsibility to others, such as a government, they loose both...in this Australia is a perfect example | Mar 03 01:07 |
| MinceR | do you consider yourself an adult, able to think for yourself? | Mar 03 01:07 |
| MinceR | your government obviously doesn't. | Mar 03 01:07 |
| dyfet | Mincer: exactly | Mar 03 01:07 |
| dyfet | freedom is responsibility, and when you surrender responsibility, you loose both... | Mar 03 01:08 |
| MinceR | do you think such a government believes the idea that it's responsible to adults? | Mar 03 01:08 |
| MinceR | do you think such a government really cares one way or the other what voters think or want or vote for? | Mar 03 01:08 |
| dyfet | I'm with Mincer ;) | Mar 03 01:08 |
| oiaohm | You are aware that all ratings can be disputed. | Mar 03 01:09 |
| oiaohm | The biggest problem I have with the internet filter is the idea to keep the list secret. | Mar 03 01:09 |
| oiaohm | Because that prevents the normal blocked work dispute process. | Mar 03 01:09 |
| MinceR | what if an adult doesn't want to be filtered? | Mar 03 01:10 |
| dyfet | So because you feel you cannot be responsible for yourself as an adult, you feel others should be denied freedom as well? | Mar 03 01:10 |
| MinceR | and how is "free speech" supposed to work if it's stopped from reaching others by "filtering"? | Mar 03 01:11 |
| dyfet | speech that is airbrushed out of existence because it is unpopular like an abandoned politburo official... | Mar 03 01:12 |
| dyfet | It could be argued that freedom of speech is nessisary precisely to protect unpopular speech, since popular speech consistent with the party line is certainly never in danger | Mar 03 01:13 |
| dyfet | filtering eliminates that | Mar 03 01:13 |
| oiaohm | Now you go out in public rules exist right. | Mar 03 01:13 |
| oiaohm | That you have to follow or face out comes. | Mar 03 01:13 |
| dyfet | leaving a flat and dead culture and society in it's place | Mar 03 01:13 |
| oiaohm | If you don't like the rules you have to dispute them right. | Mar 03 01:14 |
| MinceR | yeah, if i speak my mind, i face that it might affect the thinking of others | Mar 03 01:14 |
| MinceR | the horror! | Mar 03 01:14 |
| oiaohm | Not just break them because you can then say to the judge | Mar 03 01:14 |
| oiaohm | the law was invalid. | Mar 03 01:14 |
| oiaohm | It don't get you far. | Mar 03 01:14 |
| oiaohm | Filter or throw people in jail what is better. | Mar 03 01:14 |
| oiaohm | Current laws they could just jail. | Mar 03 01:15 |
| MinceR | can you only think in terms of totalitarianism? | Mar 03 01:15 |
| MinceR | silence people, throw them in jail, kill them | Mar 03 01:15 |
| MinceR | no other option? | Mar 03 01:15 |
| oiaohm | I just stated the laws that are currently in place. | Mar 03 01:15 |
| oiaohm | Having unrated content is an jailable offence. | Mar 03 01:15 |
| MinceR | how do you propose people should dispute the rules if all dissent is silenced? | Mar 03 01:15 |
| MinceR | 020819 < oiaohm> Having unrated content is an jailable offence. | Mar 03 01:16 |
| MinceR | that's because your law is broken | Mar 03 01:16 |
| dyfet | that is known as an illegitimate society | Mar 03 01:16 |
| oiaohm | Australian law if you want to complain about the law you cannot be jailed. | Mar 03 01:16 |
| MinceR | apparently your laws that are currently in place are typical of dictatorships. | Mar 03 01:16 |
| oiaohm | Simple fact disputing the law is protected. | Mar 03 01:16 |
| MinceR | if you want to complain about the law you cannot be jailed -- therefore you're censored instead | Mar 03 01:16 |
| MinceR | how convenient! | Mar 03 01:16 |
| MinceR | you can speak all you want, nobody will hear you | Mar 03 01:16 |
| MinceR | and so the abusive laws stay in place forever | Mar 03 01:17 |
| oiaohm | No censoring text complainging about the law is a jailable offence to who ever does it. | Mar 03 01:17 |
| MinceR | and the only opinion that will be heard is how great those laws are | Mar 03 01:17 |
| schestowitz | Nuclear propaganda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJPQw-zuFzY&feature=grec | Mar 03 01:17 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- 1950's Cold War Propaganda - Bikini Atoll Documentary .::. Size~: 124.99 KB | Mar 03 01:17 |
| oiaohm | So legally protected MinceR | Mar 03 01:17 |
| MinceR | legally protected and legally silenced? | Mar 03 01:17 |
| oiaohm | No | Mar 03 01:17 |
| oiaohm | this is where you are wrong. | Mar 03 01:18 |
| oiaohm | the law applies to images. | Mar 03 01:18 |
| oiaohm | Not text or words. | Mar 03 01:18 |
| MinceR | and images can't tell opinions? | Mar 03 01:18 |
| oiaohm | To dispute a law does not need images. | Mar 03 01:18 |
| MinceR | what if there are images showing the crimes the government and the authorities are committing? | Mar 03 01:18 |
| oiaohm | That is legally protected. | Mar 03 01:18 |
| MinceR | and since when does the Great Firewall of Australia only affect images? | Mar 03 01:19 |
| oiaohm | Unrated content can be displayed in a court room. | Mar 03 01:19 |
| dyfet | By the same government that asserts to arbitrarily rate images? | Mar 03 01:19 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: so does all your disputes about how a society should be run occur in a court room? | Mar 03 01:19 |
| oiaohm | And can be cenored to be displayed anywhere else | Mar 03 01:19 |
| MinceR | wow, that's helpful | Mar 03 01:19 |
| oiaohm | By our laws it should be handled in a court room. | Mar 03 01:20 |
| MinceR | "here's the photo evidence i took: [censored] now you can all see for yourselves!" | Mar 03 01:20 |
| MinceR | then your country has no idea how democracy works | Mar 03 01:20 |
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| Chips_B_Malroy | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9164400/Group_wants_Microsoft_s_browser_ballot_to_go_global | Mar 03 01:21 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Group wants Microsoft's browser ballot to go global .::. Size~: 126.44 KB | Mar 03 01:21 |
| oiaohm | Now if you have attempted to display it to a court and court fails to act MinceR | Mar 03 01:21 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: what if it's a dispute of which party is better to vote for? | Mar 03 01:22 |
| oiaohm | Next bit of our law can kick in. So protecting the unrated content from being blocked. | Mar 03 01:22 |
| MinceR | (assuming that they don't say and do the exact same thing, of course) | Mar 03 01:22 |
| MinceR | (or that it's legal and possible for a third party to run) | Mar 03 01:22 |
| oiaohm | Basically we have a multi layer law. | Mar 03 01:22 |
| oiaohm | Each piece triggers different things. | Mar 03 01:22 |
| MinceR | i suppose your laws aren't made in the court room | Mar 03 01:22 |
| oiaohm | They can be. MinceR | Mar 03 01:23 |
| MinceR | but not typically or exclusively | Mar 03 01:23 |
| oiaohm | It not exclusive | Mar 03 01:23 |
| oiaohm | Laws can be struck off the books by a court. | Mar 03 01:23 |
| oiaohm | And once struck off ellected officals cannot put them back. | Mar 03 01:24 |
| MinceR | can laws be discussed at all before they're signed into law? | Mar 03 01:24 |
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| oiaohm | So yes if australian public are mad enough over the internet censorship laws they could take it to court and get rid of them. | Mar 03 01:25 |
| MinceR | can the (supposedly) elected officials get input from the people they're supposed to represent? | Mar 03 01:25 |
| MinceR | or can that only happen in a courtroom? | Mar 03 01:25 |
| oiaohm | Laws are discussed before they come law. | Mar 03 01:25 |
| MinceR | if they aren't mad enough over them then they deserve all the censorship they get | Mar 03 01:25 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: and how do you discuss laws without freedom of speech? | Mar 03 01:26 |
| oiaohm | Our final level against goverment created laws is applead to the queen/governer general to get the goverment kicked. out. | Mar 03 01:26 |
| MinceR | that must be a great relief | Mar 03 01:26 |
| oiaohm | discussing the laws is protected MinceR | Mar 03 01:26 |
| dyfet | well, no, Mincer, no human being deserves to be treated as subhuman, or a child...which is precisely what such laws do | Mar 03 01:26 |
| oiaohm | Anyone attempting to stop that can be jailed. | Mar 03 01:26 |
| MinceR | dyfet: i guess they have the freedom to live the way they want to, as long as they consent to it in an informed way | Mar 03 01:27 |
| oiaohm | The photo graphic media laws were created to prevent people profiting from other peoples suffering. | Mar 03 01:27 |
| MinceR | dyfet: if they want to build a totalitarian dictatorship for themselves to live in, who can stop them? | Mar 03 01:27 |
| MinceR | dyfet: i just really hope i won't get caught in this fad (yeah, fat chance) | Mar 03 01:27 |
| dyfet | you are assuming they have informed consent | Mar 03 01:27 |
| MinceR | i'm assuming this is how much they cared to be informed | Mar 03 01:28 |
| MinceR | nobody can force them to take the effort to become informed. | Mar 03 01:28 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: you assume the internet ceneror ship blocks free speech. | Mar 03 01:28 |
| schestowitz | Watch how the military exposed to radiation its own people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z29H_AX-jTs&NR=1 | Mar 03 01:28 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- BIKINI ATOLL 1946 .::. Size~: 108.22 KB | Mar 03 01:28 |
| schestowitz | Same with France | Mar 03 01:28 |
| schestowitz | As revealed by a recent report from APF, IIRC | Mar 03 01:28 |
| MinceR | they just bought all the "all that evil pr0n and violent images must be stopped at all cost!" bullshit | Mar 03 01:29 |
| oiaohm | Basically if you posted a text based website with all rateable images. Talking against the law there if it was blocked who ever did would have broken laws. | Mar 03 01:29 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: that's what censorship is -- blocking free speech. | Mar 03 01:29 |
| MinceR | this is a matter of principle. | Mar 03 01:29 |
| oiaohm | Basically you are perfectly free to talk about it. | Mar 03 01:29 |
| oiaohm | Just you don't have the free use of images. | Mar 03 01:29 |
| oiaohm | As I said the biggest issue I had was the idea of keeping the list secret. | Mar 03 01:30 |
| MinceR | i guess if someone doesn't want freedom for himself then he can't be helped. | Mar 03 01:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-02/microsoft-says-operating-expenses-may-rise-5-in-2011-update2-.html | Mar 03 01:31 |
| oiaohm | So making it hard to prove when the core australian law of protection of talking against the law has being breached. | Mar 03 01:31 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft Says Operating Expenses May Rise 5% in 2011 (Update3) - BusinessWeek .::. Size~: 46.28 KB | Mar 03 01:31 |
| oiaohm | There is a court case over that fact already lined up MinceR | Mar 03 01:31 |
| dyfet | Mincer: in one sense that is true, or at least the inverse is very true, that those who do want freedom and have it denied are not allowed to be helped | Mar 03 01:32 |
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| MinceR | dyfet: the problem is: what if a tiny minority (like me) wants to live free among a majority that doesn't value freedom for themselves (the mass of idiots on this planet)? | Mar 03 01:33 |
| oiaohm | So dyfet and Mincer you are fine with images like child porn and the like being displayed by people for profit. Images that long term harm people in there production. | Mar 03 01:33 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: afaik the problem with child porn is not the content of the image but the means of their production | Mar 03 01:34 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: therefore the means of their production should be attacked, not freedom of speech. | Mar 03 01:34 |
| oiaohm | Both are attacked MinceR | Mar 03 01:34 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: so they're throwing the baby out with the bathwater? and you're saying that's good? | Mar 03 01:34 |
| dyfet | Mincer: well, I can tell you, from the experience of the American Indian, that you can expect violence by and continued cruelty from that kind of majority | Mar 03 01:34 |
| MinceR | dyfet: yeah, that's what i got in all my life | Mar 03 01:35 |
| oiaohm | What happens in the usa is lets use software to make people appear young. So we can make images that are the same as child porn legally. MinceR | Mar 03 01:35 |
| oiaohm | Still does not change the triggered harm. | Mar 03 01:35 |
| dyfet | Mincer: where you are punished or killed simply for living your lifeways...or trying to live in freedom, as a rough analogue | Mar 03 01:35 |
| MinceR | how so? | Mar 03 01:35 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: whom does image editing harm? | Mar 03 01:36 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly editing. | Mar 03 01:36 |
| _goblin | oiaohm, in the UK its an offence.....Psuedo indecent photographs. | Mar 03 01:36 |
| oiaohm | Runnign reverse ageing forumallys. | Mar 03 01:36 |
| MinceR | so, whom does image not-exactly-editing harm? | Mar 03 01:36 |
| MinceR | does it turn the people who were photographed into children or something? | Mar 03 01:36 |
| oiaohm | But it does have a effect on the people viewing them. | Mar 03 01:37 |
| MinceR | or perhaps making photos of someone captures their soul in the photo, which is then harmed? | Mar 03 01:37 |
| MinceR | well, that's kind of the point of viewing images | Mar 03 01:37 |
| MinceR | if it had no effect on the viewer, then what's the point? | Mar 03 01:37 |
| MinceR | actually, it's kind of the definition of viewing images | Mar 03 01:37 |
| MinceR | if it doesn't effect the viewer's nervous system then he can't see the image | Mar 03 01:38 |
| oiaohm | It called desensitization. | Mar 03 01:38 |
| oiaohm | Its a natural part of the human mind. MinceR | Mar 03 01:38 |
| MinceR | do you honestly believe that a vague notion such as "desensitization" is worth more than the idea of free speech? | Mar 03 01:38 |
| MinceR | are those your priorities? | Mar 03 01:38 |
| dyfet | oiaohm: if you choose to view it, perhaps, but since you say you do not wish to, obviously you would not, so I do not see how it would harm or "desensitive" you.... | Mar 03 01:39 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: you are saying vague. Mil use it in training soliders for a reason. | Mar 03 01:39 |
| MinceR | i suppose they can't use free speech in training soldiers | Mar 03 01:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Hey Goblin> check your email | Mar 03 01:39 |
| oiaohm | You can take a person who by nature would not kill because they would freese. | Mar 03 01:40 |
| MinceR | and killing is always evil, right? | Mar 03 01:40 |
| oiaohm | Train them enough they will kill without thinking due to desensitazation to it. | Mar 03 01:40 |
| dyfet | Mincer: I guess he means if child porn were out there, it would magically appear on every tv and everyone would be magically "forced" to watch it...... | Mar 03 01:40 |
| MinceR | yeah, they'll just kill in every waking moment because they become unable to do anything else, right? | Mar 03 01:40 |
| oiaohm | Not everyone mind is as weak to it. | Mar 03 01:40 |
| oiaohm | To the same ammount. | Mar 03 01:40 |
| MinceR | dyfet: their puerile minds would not be able to look away! | Mar 03 01:41 |
| dyfet | Mincer: so oiahohm's entire argument is he cannot trust himself, hence he cannot trust others to trust themselves either...?? | Mar 03 01:41 |
| MinceR | lol | Mar 03 01:41 |
| oiaohm | Your arguements are that damage don't happen due to images. | Mar 03 01:42 |
| oiaohm | Even that its been documented for years. | Mar 03 01:42 |
| MinceR | no, my argument is that the flow of information by itself is not evil | Mar 03 01:42 |
| MinceR | and that freedom of speech is a prerequisite for democracy | Mar 03 01:42 |
| oiaohm | To be correct over a 200 years. | Mar 03 01:42 |
| dyfet | oiaohm: you mean the ones you would "not" view even if available, but even so their being available harms you? | Mar 03 01:42 |
| oiaohm | Problem is you might not. But the person who is effected by them may harm you. | Mar 03 01:43 |
| oiaohm | That is where your ideas fail. For the protection of the whole particular things are bad to be come tollerent to. | Mar 03 01:44 |
| MinceR | does it get any more vague and tenuous than that? | Mar 03 01:44 |
| oiaohm | Its not vague. | Mar 03 01:44 |
| MinceR | it is | Mar 03 01:45 |
| oiaohm | There are enough documented cases of it happening. | Mar 03 01:45 |
| MinceR | why doesn't australia offer to join china? | Mar 03 01:45 |
| MinceR | you seem to think alike | Mar 03 01:45 |
| oiaohm | Australia is not blocking freespeech. | Mar 03 01:46 |
| oiaohm | They are block free trade in images. | Mar 03 01:46 |
| MinceR | where do you draw the line? | Mar 03 01:46 |
| dyfet | Those are the very same arguments China uses... | Mar 03 01:46 |
| oiaohm | Two completely different things. | Mar 03 01:46 |
| MinceR | yeah, china says they aren't blocking free speech either | Mar 03 01:46 |
| dyfet | And they also say they do not block free speech ;) | Mar 03 01:46 |
| oiaohm | Words and text don't alter humans reactions to things. | Mar 03 01:46 |
| MinceR | the official party line says they're the most free country in the world | Mar 03 01:46 |
| MinceR | that's what they all say | Mar 03 01:46 |
| oiaohm | pictures on the other hand can. | Mar 03 01:46 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: that's bullshit | Mar 03 01:47 |
| oiaohm | This is part of our make up. | Mar 03 01:47 |
| oiaohm | So you wish to dispute mil training and all the research into it MinceR | Mar 03 01:47 |
| MinceR | ideas have been conveyed via language ever since language existed | Mar 03 01:47 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: so you wish to pretend that the entirety of human existence is military training | Mar 03 01:47 |
| oiaohm | How to alter human responsces by images is well documented. | Mar 03 01:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | sublimal? | Mar 03 01:48 |
| MinceR | and learning from text is not well documented, then, i guess | Mar 03 01:48 |
| oiaohm | Not exaclty sublimal | Mar 03 01:48 |
| MinceR | neither is debate in speech or written word | Mar 03 01:48 |
| dyfet | Hmm, best cover your women also then, like in Saudi Arabia.... | Mar 03 01:48 |
| MinceR | well, i'm certainly not altering your responses, that's true | Mar 03 01:48 |
| dyfet | Lest Australian men go wild... | Mar 03 01:48 |
| oiaohm | The more you see something the more tollerent to it you become. | Mar 03 01:48 |
| MinceR | but perhaps it isn't a good example | Mar 03 01:48 |
| MinceR | there's nothing wrong with that | Mar 03 01:48 |
| oiaohm | That is the way the human brain works. | Mar 03 01:48 |
| MinceR | it means you can remain functional regardless of the images they try to shock you with | Mar 03 01:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you refer to military training by USA with XBox360's then? | Mar 03 01:49 |
| MinceR | you can still think about their contents | Mar 03 01:49 |
| MinceR | and that's all that matters | Mar 03 01:49 |
| oiaohm | So a person who cannot stand the view of blood show them blood enough they will at some point tollerate it. | Mar 03 01:49 |
| oiaohm | Same with fear of spiders and the like can be treated the same way. | Mar 03 01:49 |
| oiaohm | Basically you can remove a person barriors slowly to the point they will do something they would have never done. | Mar 03 01:50 |
| MinceR | and fainting when you see blood is supposed to be a good thing in your book? | Mar 03 01:50 |
| oiaohm | No MinceR the effect is used to treat people with problems like that. | Mar 03 01:50 |
| dyfet | Living in a safe pretend state generated world where nothing bad ever happens... | Mar 03 01:50 |
| oiaohm | But the effect does not just stop at that. | Mar 03 01:50 |
| oiaohm | Sexual prefence and other things can be altered to a point. | Mar 03 01:50 |
| MinceR | whom does it harm to make someone able to function in the presence of certain images? | Mar 03 01:51 |
| MinceR | no, sexual preference can't be altered that way | Mar 03 01:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Oiaohm> the object of the military is in many ways to create soldiers than carry out orders, almost like a robot | Mar 03 01:51 |
| MinceR | there was a lot of trying | Mar 03 01:51 |
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| oiaohm | To a point MinceR | Mar 03 01:51 |
| oiaohm | The age of perfence can be moved. | Mar 03 01:51 |
| MinceR | and yes, information can be conveyed via images | Mar 03 01:51 |
| MinceR | so it can be used to debate and present ideas | Mar 03 01:51 |
| MinceR | it's no less evil than doing the same in text | Mar 03 01:51 |
| oiaohm | Again that is documented. MinceR | Mar 03 01:52 |
| MinceR | tell that to homosexuals | Mar 03 01:52 |
| dyfet | Mincer: maybe he's afraid he will be "turned gay" if he sees a gay pride parade... | Mar 03 01:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | military is now using xbox360's for some of its training | Mar 03 01:52 |
| MinceR | tell them about your new, supposedly documented method to make them heterosexual | Mar 03 01:52 |
| MinceR | dyfet: lol | Mar 03 01:52 |
| MinceR | Chips_B_Malroy: what do they do in the case of RRoD? | Mar 03 01:53 |
| MinceR | maybe that's the state in which they use it, though | Mar 03 01:53 |
| MinceR | using a dead xbox360 as a weapon | Mar 03 01:53 |
| oiaohm | Documentation says you can change the age prefrence of sexual partners. MinceR | Mar 03 01:53 |
| oiaohm | Ie to a point change of sexual perfence. | Mar 03 01:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MinceR> RROD is not a problem for the Military. The USA gov will just borrow more money and replace it | Mar 03 01:54 |
| oiaohm | Total cannot be done. MinceR | Mar 03 01:54 |
| MinceR | Chips_B_Malroy: as long as they're produced at all :> | Mar 03 01:54 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: so what does that "to a point" mean, then? | Mar 03 01:54 |
| oiaohm | Color hair age mostly surface appearance things of the attraction. MinceR | Mar 03 01:55 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MinceR> the day they stop producing the Xbox consoles, is a good day for mankind | Mar 03 01:55 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: and that's evil how? | Mar 03 01:55 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: it's a simple matter of taste then. | Mar 03 01:55 |
| _goblin | Right, off now.... | Mar 03 01:56 |
| oiaohm | You taste is not formed in isolation. MinceR | Mar 03 01:56 |
| _goblin | Smoke me a kipper I'll be back for breakfast. | Mar 03 01:56 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, check your email | Mar 03 01:56 |
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| oiaohm | What you have been and will be exposed to will set it MinceR | Mar 03 01:56 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: nobody's taste is formed in isolation | Mar 03 01:56 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: that doesn't mean that being baited into seeing images i don't want will result in the sudden appearance of some sort of sexual aberration in my mind | Mar 03 01:57 |
| oiaohm | The problem is it not sudden. | Mar 03 01:57 |
| dyfet | Some of the most twisted and sick people were the Victorians who also worked hard to censor all aspects of their lives and images of society that were "negative" | Mar 03 01:57 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: if it is not sudden then it was by conscious choice of the individual to affect himself | Mar 03 01:58 |
| dyfet | But I guess that is safer for oiaohm :) | Mar 03 01:58 |
| oiaohm | You are talking years of gradual effects. MinceR So slight the person that it is happing to does not notice. | Mar 03 01:58 |
| MinceR | yeah, i wouldn't notice if child pr0n popped up on all sorts of websites | Mar 03 01:58 |
| MinceR | oh, wait | Mar 03 01:58 |
| MinceR | but i guess once again the issue is that you don't consider yourself to be adult and so you want your government to make decisions for you | Mar 03 01:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Speaking of twisted, anyone see the Dorian Gray movie? | Mar 03 01:59 |
| MinceR | and then you claim that you supervise your government and that your votes affect it | Mar 03 01:59 |
| MinceR | will you then ask your government to decide whom to vote for? | Mar 03 01:59 |
| dyfet | the way a dog claims he controls his leash.... | Mar 03 02:00 |
| MinceR | or will you suddenly grow up for a day? | Mar 03 02:00 |
| MinceR | otherwise, you could just install a client-side filter by your own power | Mar 03 02:00 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: Most people don't notice there porn viewing normally starts off in one area and drifts in particular directions over time based on the images they have been viewing. | Mar 03 02:00 |
| MinceR | without forcing a Great Firewall over an entire country | Mar 03 02:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | They done a lot of censurship of the web down under | Mar 03 02:00 |
| oiaohm | So its partly enforcement that more people don't drift to child porn. | Mar 03 02:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | not that its a whole lot better here | Mar 03 02:01 |
| MinceR | so we're seeing that a system that's more suited to censoring opinions is installed instead of one that's suited for controlling one's own habits | Mar 03 02:01 |
| MinceR | under a false pretense | Mar 03 02:01 |
| MinceR | you don't see anything suspicious here, do you? | Mar 03 02:01 |
| dyfet | if you dont trust yourself, oiaohm, please, feel free to censor yourself, but don't censor others | Mar 03 02:02 |
| MinceR | it would only take a single glance at what the chinese do | Mar 03 02:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | once you start down the road to censorship, even for good reasons, they will find other things that need to be censored | Mar 03 02:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | where does it end? | Mar 03 02:02 |
| oiaohm | dyfet: Its not that I don't trust myself. I don't trust others because a lot of people will not notice there changes. | Mar 03 02:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it was more than just child porn being cenored in Australia | Mar 03 02:03 |
| MinceR | yeah, a lot of people aren't adults and can't be trusted to make decisions for themselves | Mar 03 02:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | where does the list stop? | Mar 03 02:03 |
| MinceR | and somehow all the responsible adults happen to be concentrated in the government! | Mar 03 02:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | exactly | Mar 03 02:03 |
| MinceR | because their actions sure show how mature they are, don't they? | Mar 03 02:03 |
| dyfet | Chips_B_MalroyL where indeed... | Mar 03 02:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | lets see, pirate's bay, block em | Mar 03 02:04 |
| oiaohm | So you think you could not have your reactions to things altered. MinceR | Mar 03 02:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | maybe someday, boycott novell | Mar 03 02:04 |
| oiaohm | Without you noticing. MinceR | Mar 03 02:04 |
| MinceR | i think i'd notice if some change was afoot | Mar 03 02:04 |
| FurnaceBoy | Chips_B_Malroy: ha, i was about to say the same thing | Mar 03 02:04 |
| MinceR | and i do exert rational control | Mar 03 02:04 |
| dyfet | Mincer: yeah, trust the state to do ALL your thinking for you....;) | Mar 03 02:04 |
| MinceR | also, i don't watch pr0n all day | Mar 03 02:05 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: you should try it! | Mar 03 02:05 |
| dyfet | lol | Mar 03 02:05 |
| FurnaceBoy | before you knock it! | Mar 03 02:05 |
| MinceR | lol | Mar 03 02:05 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: and i don't trust any government to watch for things like that anyway | Mar 03 02:06 |
| oiaohm | Items like pirate bay getting people to take part in something people could currently be jailed for. Site like boycott Novell would always be fine. | Mar 03 02:06 |
| dyfet | Well, according to oiahohm, you must already be dangerous and locked up or shot, furnaceboy ;) | Mar 03 02:06 |
| MinceR | who knows what sort of aberration would they like me to have? | Mar 03 02:06 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: no, BN wouldn't always be fine | Mar 03 02:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: "would always be fine" ?? | Mar 03 02:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | oiaohm: can you explain that a bit? | Mar 03 02:07 |
| xfcu | hi | Mar 03 02:07 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: once the system is in place, all it takes is the action of a single corrupt individual to "accidentally" block BN | Mar 03 02:07 |
| MinceR | "oops" | Mar 03 02:07 |
| oiaohm | A leaks site here go blocked and the goverment had to restore and pay damages. MinceR | Mar 03 02:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: or not even one individual | Mar 03 02:07 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR: it can be a corrupt policy or bad law. much harder to revoke. | Mar 03 02:08 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: as opposed to client-side filtering, where such changes can't be applied globally | Mar 03 02:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiaohm> while I mostly agree with you, still, do you want the gov to have more powers than the founding fathers (in the USA of course) gave them? | Mar 03 02:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they are too powerful already | Mar 03 02:08 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: also, next time we'd hear your government (and you) argue that a certain other class of sites should be censored, and how fortunate that the system is already in place, it costs nothing! | Mar 03 02:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | MinceR++ | Mar 03 02:08 |
| FurnaceBoy | it's a slippery slope indeed. | Mar 03 02:08 |
| oiaohm | There was a little catch australian goverment already tried client side filtering. | Mar 03 02:09 |
| MinceR | it's much worse than a slippery slope | Mar 03 02:09 |
| dyfet | My people know governments make many promises... | Mar 03 02:09 |
| FurnaceBoy | one could look at the history of book censorship -- alive and well in the USA | Mar 03 02:09 |
| MinceR | it's handing the government the gun with which to kill your independent thought | Mar 03 02:09 |
| oiaohm | Guess what kids more computer skilled than parernets so uninstalled the filter. | Mar 03 02:09 |
| oiaohm | Client side is not a option if it is to work. | Mar 03 02:09 |
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| MinceR | yeah, if patents can't use computers then the government will have to control them for everyone | Mar 03 02:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | BN causes many to become informed about what mulitnational corporatioins are doing, in concert with govs (acta as example), You think they would not get around to blocking this site someday? | Mar 03 02:10 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: so why don't you give the government root access to your computers and let them change the root password? | Mar 03 02:10 |
| oiaohm | Part of the filter is owner of ISP account controlled. | Mar 03 02:10 |
| MinceR | part. | Mar 03 02:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | if no checks put upon them | Mar 03 02:10 |
| MinceR | and part of it applies to everyone. | Mar 03 02:10 |
| MinceR | also, the filter applies to all machines and all users on that LAN. | Mar 03 02:11 |
| oiaohm | MinceR: by law if police takes you machine here you already cannot refuse to hand over password. | Mar 03 02:11 |
| MinceR | that's a different issue | Mar 03 02:11 |
| oiaohm | Goverment here does not want control of your machine. | Mar 03 02:11 |
| oiaohm | No interest in it. | Mar 03 02:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Censorship, first its about protecting people, then its about he money. | Mar 03 02:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | thats where it stops | Mar 03 02:12 |
| dyfet | True, just the person behind the machine... | Mar 03 02:12 |
| dyfet | It is about controlling people | Mar 03 02:12 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Mar 03 02:12 |
| dyfet | What they think, what they can learn, what they are allowed to express | Mar 03 02:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its about the money and the power. Look at CHina | Mar 03 02:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Look at Bing, MS | Mar 03 02:13 |
| dyfet | CBM, thats the motivation ultimately | Mar 03 02:13 |
| oiaohm | You are aware that all the filtering bit in Australia started by the people owning the machines requesting a internet filter that works. | Mar 03 02:13 |
| MinceR | 030404 < oiaohm> No interest in it. | Mar 03 02:13 |
| MinceR | yet. | Mar 03 02:13 |
| oiaohm | Client side simple does not work. | Mar 03 02:13 |
| oiaohm | Server side were it harder to tamper with does. | Mar 03 02:13 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: do you remember the first concept of Palladium? | Mar 03 02:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | The filtering was already abused there | Mar 03 02:13 |
| MinceR | client side does work if the user has a clue. | Mar 03 02:13 |
| MinceR | it doesn't take much | Mar 03 02:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | proxy | Mar 03 02:14 |
| oiaohm | Palladium can result in machine being rendered useless. | Mar 03 02:14 |
| MinceR | say, you use a router with a content filter, keep the passwords (including the one you authenticate to the ISP with) to yourself | Mar 03 02:14 |
| oiaohm | So yes stops tampering at what price. | Mar 03 02:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | windows can render a machine useless too | Mar 03 02:14 |
| MinceR | the only way the hosts on the LAN can get online is via the router | Mar 03 02:14 |
| MinceR | which filters | Mar 03 02:14 |
| MinceR | and is secured by passwords the parents keep secure | Mar 03 02:15 |
| MinceR | end of story. | Mar 03 02:15 |
| oiaohm | Again not being produces in volume most of the public can afford. | Mar 03 02:15 |
| MinceR | as for means on the network to get around the proxy -- guess what, those work on the Great Firewall, too | Mar 03 02:15 |
| oiaohm | Simplest and fast way is place it in the ISP. | Mar 03 02:15 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: i thought there was a government moving the threads here | Mar 03 02:15 |
| MinceR | one could imagine that they could arrange for mass production | Mar 03 02:16 |
| dyfet | Hmm, this oiaohm seems to think in "absolutes"... | Mar 03 02:16 |
| oiaohm | Also this makes simpler to keep current. | Mar 03 02:16 |
| MinceR | but i guess they can only order a Great Firewall | Mar 03 02:16 |
| MinceR | not something that isn't designed to be abused against the population | Mar 03 02:16 |
| dyfet | Just an observation... | Mar 03 02:16 |
| oiaohm | No each ISP will be responsable for there own domain in the australian system. | Mar 03 02:16 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: also, the ISP could implement it in an optional way | Mar 03 02:16 |
| oiaohm | And will have the right to dispute anything on the list. | Mar 03 02:16 |
| MinceR | there's absolutely no reason to force it on everyone. | Mar 03 02:16 |
| oiaohm | If the master list idea drops off. | Mar 03 02:17 |
| oiaohm | The law forcing ISPs to provide the option most likely will still go threw. | Mar 03 02:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | didn't they try to keep the list secret first? | Mar 03 02:17 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: can you explain why the ISP-side filtering can't be optional, with opt-in? | Mar 03 02:17 |
| oiaohm | Most of the ISP filtering put up is. | Mar 03 02:18 |
| oiaohm | Small sections like cutting out virus infected sides and trade in illegal items was not. | Mar 03 02:18 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: can you explain why some of it isn't? | Mar 03 02:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | So how much different is it if China or Australia does it? | Mar 03 02:19 |
| oiaohm | sides/sites | Mar 03 02:19 |
| oiaohm | Now if the list was public I would have and not much problem with it. Most of it was perfectly sane. | Mar 03 02:19 |
| MinceR | it shouldn't even be legal for the ISP to do filtering the user can't opt out of. | Mar 03 02:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ah, still secret | Mar 03 02:20 |
| MinceR | that's not what ISPs are for. | Mar 03 02:20 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: apparently you don't have problems with it | Mar 03 02:20 |
| oiaohm | A few people who had there sites breached and used as bot masters were on there even that they had recovered there sites. | Mar 03 02:20 |
| MinceR | here you are, arguing for this abusive system. | Mar 03 02:20 |
| oiaohm | I do have a problem with the idea of a hidden list. | Mar 03 02:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | secret filter list, is because they (gov) are filtering something they should not, or have plans to do that in the future | Mar 03 02:20 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: and you have no problem with the idea that such a hidden list could be turned on at any time. | Mar 03 02:21 |
| MinceR | if, say, the government decided they don't want the voters to receive ACTA leaks. | Mar 03 02:21 |
| oiaohm | Really any hidden list if it exists has to be told to the public by law. | Mar 03 02:21 |
| MinceR | (which shouldn't be allowed to discussed in secret anyway) | Mar 03 02:21 |
| oiaohm | Even if it contents are hidden. | Mar 03 02:22 |
| MinceR | so there's a tiny little hole in that mess you call your law? | Mar 03 02:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | not the same as showing the list, is it? | Mar 03 02:22 |
| MinceR | not quite the same | Mar 03 02:22 |
| oiaohm | Yep a tiny little hole that need patching. | Mar 03 02:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | lol | Mar 03 02:22 |
| MinceR | "oh, and by the way, there are a few things we're hiding from you. it's for your own good honest!" | Mar 03 02:22 |
| oiaohm | That hidden lists when it comes to cenoring can exist. | Mar 03 02:22 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: i think hu jintao could help you patch those tiny little holes just fine. | Mar 03 02:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | most of the countries, most likely already have these lists, just the govs not telling u | Mar 03 02:23 |
| MinceR | they don't even need to do much propaganda, apparently | Mar 03 02:23 |
| oiaohm | Yep lot of countries just remove stuff from the root DNS servers. | Mar 03 02:23 |
| MinceR | yes, a lot of countries perpetuate abuses against free speech. | Mar 03 02:24 |
| oiaohm | Basically we all know it will happen. | Mar 03 02:24 |
| oiaohm | But I want to done in a open and truthful way. | Mar 03 02:24 |
| MinceR | yes, they do it because they can | Mar 03 02:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MinceR> hu hintao has MS to help them with the great firewall | Mar 03 02:24 |
| oiaohm | Ie we are blocking X | Mar 03 02:24 |
| oiaohm | With why. | Mar 03 02:24 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: yet here you are arguing that your government is mature and responsible | Mar 03 02:24 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: while admitting that they aren't | Mar 03 02:24 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: i really don't understand you | Mar 03 02:24 |
| oiaohm | You are saying filtering is bad. So they cannot do it. So in affect you will not know what they are doing. | Mar 03 02:25 |
| MinceR | nope, i'm not saying "i don't want to know what filtering they're doing" | Mar 03 02:25 |
| oiaohm | I want to know what they are doing. I accept filtering for particular reasons has to happen. | Mar 03 02:25 |
| MinceR | i'm saying "i don't want them to do filtering" | Mar 03 02:25 |
| MinceR | see the difference? | Mar 03 02:25 |
| oiaohm | Problem is they will. | Mar 03 02:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I think Oiaohm deep down understands that censorship is something that starts as benign, but turns into a cancer | Mar 03 02:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | give it time | Mar 03 02:26 |
| MinceR | well yes, the problem is that your government and mine both abuse their power | Mar 03 02:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | censorship is all about control | Mar 03 02:26 |
| MinceR | that's the entire issue! | Mar 03 02:26 |
| oiaohm | Hidden control censorship grows in a cancer. | Mar 03 02:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | secrets | Mar 03 02:26 |
| MinceR | i don't really see how a government could even exist without power being abused | Mar 03 02:26 |
| oiaohm | Disputable and openally run censorship runs stable. | Mar 03 02:27 |
| oiaohm | Has for ages. | Mar 03 02:27 |
| MinceR | it's what the whole thing is about: a small group of corruptible, fallible people abusing power against the rest of the corruptible, fallible people | Mar 03 02:27 |
| MinceR | and yet you'd have me believe that for some magical reason that small group is to be trusted | Mar 03 02:27 |
| oiaohm | I am not after a small group of people to run it MinceR | Mar 03 02:27 |
| MinceR | so, what group would you have run it? | Mar 03 02:28 |
| MinceR | would you include me in that group? | Mar 03 02:28 |
| oiaohm | If everyone has the right to dispute it. | Mar 03 02:28 |
| MinceR | everyone? | Mar 03 02:28 |
| MinceR | then i decide that i don't want nor need filtering | Mar 03 02:28 |
| MinceR | do i get it? | Mar 03 02:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ok, the link I put up, about M$ forecasting a 5% increase in expenses this year. | Mar 03 02:28 |
| oiaohm | As a collective. | Mar 03 02:28 |
| MinceR | that's not a collective | Mar 03 02:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | where is that money going? | Mar 03 02:28 |
| MinceR | that's a small group claiming they have the will of the people | Mar 03 02:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | more employees? | Mar 03 02:29 |
| MinceR | just like the "communist" dictators | Mar 03 02:29 |
| oiaohm | No if the list is open anything that is wrong on there can be handled by law here. | Mar 03 02:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | WinMO? | Mar 03 02:29 |
| oiaohm | So goverments cannot just filter what ever. MinceR | Mar 03 02:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | India? | Mar 03 02:29 |
| oiaohm | The issue comes because the list was being done closed. MinceR | Mar 03 02:30 |
| MinceR | in your alleged "democracy", that small group claims to derive the legitimacy of its power from being watched and controlled by the people -- yet you'd have that small group take away the means of that watching. | Mar 03 02:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | wrong, if its secret, they can filter whatever | Mar 03 02:30 |
| oiaohm | So very hard to prove who is blocking. MinceR | Mar 03 02:30 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: am i supposed to believe that's the will of the "collective"? | Mar 03 02:30 |
| oiaohm | If the list is open there can be. | Mar 03 02:30 |
| MinceR | is the "collective" about "we don't care what goes, just arbitrarily choose a small group of us to lord it over the rest." | Mar 03 02:31 |
| MinceR | ? | Mar 03 02:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | censorship will be abused shortly by the corporations that control the gov that controls the secret list | Mar 03 02:31 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: if the list is secret they filter whatever they feel like filtering at the moment | Mar 03 02:31 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: there's no control! | Mar 03 02:31 |
| oiaohm | If the list is open and an entry is wrong the goverment is libable to pay damages to anyone they block incorrectly. | Mar 03 02:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | thats fine too | Mar 03 02:32 |
| oiaohm | As well as correct it. | Mar 03 02:32 |
| oiaohm | The secrect bit I have a problem with. | Mar 03 02:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | let them pay | Mar 03 02:32 |
| MinceR | so they'll take some money out of the people's pocket (tax) and give it back to them? | Mar 03 02:32 |
| MinceR | how generous. | Mar 03 02:32 |
| MinceR | that's some really fine government you have there. | Mar 03 02:32 |
| oiaohm | But that puts pure presure to make sure the list is right. | Mar 03 02:32 |
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| MinceR | almost as rotten, corrupted and evil as mine. | Mar 03 02:33 |
| MinceR | almost. | Mar 03 02:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | will you feel fine, when Bill Gates will have the last word on that list? | Mar 03 02:33 |
| oiaohm | If the list is never wrong they never have to pay MinceR | Mar 03 02:33 |
| *Winrar is now known as Guest54173 | Mar 03 02:33 | |
| MinceR | Chips_B_Malroy: he'll be blissfully ignorant of it | Mar 03 02:33 |
| *Guest54173 is now known as Winrar_ | Mar 03 02:33 | |
| MinceR | oiaohm: yeah, because your government is never wrong | Mar 03 02:33 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: do you also have unicorns? | Mar 03 02:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MinceR> thats true because its a secret | Mar 03 02:34 |
| oiaohm | My goverment losses a case about 4 times a year. | Mar 03 02:34 |
| oiaohm | So nothing strange there. | Mar 03 02:34 |
| MinceR | Chips_B_Malroy: and he'll never suspect anything, either. | Mar 03 02:34 |
| oiaohm | I know my goverment does wrong MinceR | Mar 03 02:34 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: but you seem to think they have a divine right to be wrong | Mar 03 02:35 |
| oiaohm | Reason why from the start I said I did not agree with the list being secret. | Mar 03 02:35 |
| MinceR | even as they cause you damage. | Mar 03 02:35 |
| oiaohm | Problem here at this stage I know sites get removed by other countries from dns records or locked. | Mar 03 02:36 |
| oiaohm | So that makes it even more fun to locate who filtered it. | Mar 03 02:36 |
| MinceR | the problem is that others use different means to do it? | Mar 03 02:36 |
| oiaohm | I know the filtering is going to happen. | Mar 03 02:36 |
| MinceR | and you think that's good? | Mar 03 02:37 |
| oiaohm | Nothing we can do will stop it. | Mar 03 02:37 |
| MinceR | you don't think that a government that is quite willing to do that is illegitimate? | Mar 03 02:37 |
| oiaohm | The most important part is knowing who did the filtering. | Mar 03 02:37 |
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| oiaohm | Then they can be held accountable for their mistakes. | Mar 03 02:37 |
| MinceR | and you see nothing wrong with your tax dollars being spent on a more efficient system to do just that? | Mar 03 02:37 |
| MinceR | no they can't | Mar 03 02:38 |
| MinceR | anyone who complains can be silenced | Mar 03 02:38 |
| MinceR | and you seem to be ok with that | Mar 03 02:38 |
| oiaohm | O yes they can. | Mar 03 02:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I would actually agree that some things need to be blocked | Mar 03 02:38 |
| oiaohm | Australia laws they can. MinceR | Mar 03 02:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | like suicide assisted sites for example | Mar 03 02:38 |
| MinceR | yes, for example the bloodflow of those who pay from their citizens' pockets to build these Great Firewalls | Mar 03 02:38 |
| DaemonFC | "<MinceR> anyone who complains can be silenced" terrorist! | Mar 03 02:38 |
| MinceR | that should be blocked | Mar 03 02:38 |
| oiaohm | Complains is not blocked. | Mar 03 02:39 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: i guess by the jesuslandian definition ("anyone who dares to think for themselves") i'm a terrorist. | Mar 03 02:39 |
| MinceR | oiaohm: how do you know? | Mar 03 02:39 |
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| MinceR | oiaohm: if someone finds out, will you see their complaint? | Mar 03 02:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | The problem I see, is filtering and blocking, does not follow the recourse of the law | Mar 03 02:39 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, That's not true. Anyone who annoys the ruling class with their thinking for themselves is a terrorist | Mar 03 02:40 |
| oiaohm | We do have recourse under the law. | Mar 03 02:40 |
| DaemonFC | there's a difference there | Mar 03 02:40 |
| MinceR | i think the law (whatever it happens to be) is no excuse for screwing the citizens. | Mar 03 02:40 |
| oiaohm | Here Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 03 02:40 |
| MinceR | there's no excuse for taking the freedom of innocents away. | Mar 03 02:40 |
| oiaohm | Problem is with the list hidden proving it was the goverment list that blocked you is tricky. | Mar 03 02:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | if these people who run these sites are doing illegal, sue them in court, the gov has this option, and if they out of the country, then block them legally | Mar 03 02:40 |
| MinceR | and yes, this includes freedom of speech -- an integral part of freedom, no matter how much this fact hurts. | Mar 03 02:40 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, Yes there is. They hate freedom. | Mar 03 02:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | there is not legal recourse here | Mar 03 02:41 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: then they'll take their own freedom away | Mar 03 02:41 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: fine with me, as long as mine remains intact. | Mar 03 02:41 |
| oiaohm | Australia has legal recourse has already been testing and won with the list hidden. | Mar 03 02:41 |
| MinceR | the "social contract" is bullshit. | Mar 03 02:41 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, It's OK to have freedom as long as you don't try to invoke it. | Mar 03 02:41 |
| DaemonFC | get the deal there? | Mar 03 02:41 |
| oiaohm | With the list open legal recourse is many times simpler to do. | Mar 03 02:41 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: yeah | Mar 03 02:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well put | Mar 03 02:42 |
| DaemonFC | It's that way with some software too. Mono users have freedom by the letter of the license, but nobody can stop Microsoft from suing (over patents) anyone using that freedom. | Mar 03 02:43 |
| MinceR | the sad thing is that the more countries adopt the Great Firewall the more pressure will be on mine to do the same | Mar 03 02:43 |
| DaemonFC | broken legal system gives you freedom with one hand and smacks you down with the other | Mar 03 02:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | On another thread, a google search for "Microsoft outsourcing to India" turns up gobs of stuff | Mar 03 02:43 |
| cubezzz | Great Firewall? | Mar 03 02:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | China | Mar 03 02:44 |
| MinceR | cubezzz: what china, australia and who knows who else has. | Mar 03 02:44 |
| DaemonFC | free software can never be 100% effective in a system of patents | Mar 03 02:44 |
| DaemonFC | nobody says it's non-free on the count of that | Mar 03 02:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Patents. All the Corps need them, in order to sue the others. MAD of corps. Its why IBM and Google have to have them, in case MS decides to mess with them, they can countersue | Mar 03 02:46 |
| DaemonFC | Anyway, I think I say the other day where someone said Matt Asay was telling Microsoft to "Bring it on!" more or less | Mar 03 02:46 |
| DaemonFC | anyone know what he was on about? | Mar 03 02:46 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: mono is non-free though, because of patent issues | Mar 03 02:46 |
| DaemonFC | *saw | Mar 03 02:46 |
| MinceR | it's the rare example of the non-free open source software, afaik | Mar 03 02:46 |
| cubezzz | patens don't mean squat outside of the US | Mar 03 02:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | TRue, but they will | Mar 03 02:47 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: dunno, but i guess it was the fanboy cheering for crApple | Mar 03 02:47 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, It's a free under copyright license | Mar 03 02:47 |
| cubezzz | software patents aren't even used by some countries | Mar 03 02:47 |
| DaemonFC | but the patent system undoes the ability to freely use it | Mar 03 02:47 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: free software isn't defined in terms of licenses | Mar 03 02:47 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: it's defined in terms of the four freedoms. | Mar 03 02:47 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, And the LGPL and MIT licenses give the user those freedoms | Mar 03 02:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | The corps are working hard to get software patents in the EU soon | Mar 03 02:47 |
| DaemonFC | but they can't overthrow the patent system | Mar 03 02:47 |
| cubezzz | the patent system? You're joking | Mar 03 02:48 |
| DaemonFC | They could declare Mono the code to be in the public domain | Mar 03 02:48 |
| cubezzz | all that will happen is some lawyers will get rich | Mar 03 02:48 |
| DaemonFC | it still violates patents | Mar 03 02:48 |
| MinceR | yeah, the EU is going to force the ACTA on hungary and keep on prancing as if they represented us and were controlled by officials we elected | Mar 03 02:48 |
| MinceR | that's why i wish we'd just leave the EU and make the price of buying laws here that much higher for the megacorps | Mar 03 02:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Sadly, a distro should never be released here in the land of the free, but rather if its put togeather here, released on some foreign server that does not have patents | Mar 03 02:49 |
| cubezzz | imagery property doesn't exist :) | Mar 03 02:49 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, Your government has full authority over trash pickups and dog catching :) | Mar 03 02:49 |
| MinceR | cubezzz: you can still be sued over it | Mar 03 02:49 |
| cubezzz | is there a patent on icons and clicking too? | Mar 03 02:49 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: and they screw even that up | Mar 03 02:49 |
| cubezzz | have they patented 1 + 1 = 2 yet? | Mar 03 02:50 |
| MinceR | gn | Mar 03 02:50 |
| cubezzz | I'm sooo scared of the big bad patents | Mar 03 02:50 |
| oiaohm | Yes MS took out a patent for client on icons so did apple. | Mar 03 02:51 |
| oiaohm | client/clicking. | Mar 03 02:51 |
| MinceR | who won? | Mar 03 02:51 |
| oiaohm | No one neither has used the patent | Mar 03 02:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | seriously, distro's should be released overseas somewhere, without patents. That way they could all have the codecs and css installed by default like Mint does | Mar 03 02:52 |
| cubezzz | so the patents are basically useless | Mar 03 02:52 |
| oiaohm | Ie patents | Mar 03 02:52 |
| MinceR | so they both hold a patent for the same thing? | Mar 03 02:52 |
| oiaohm | Yep MinceR | Mar 03 02:52 |
| cubezzz | why doesn't Xerox sue the whole world then? | Mar 03 02:52 |
| MinceR | for something that they saw prior art of at xerox parc? | Mar 03 02:52 |
| cubezzz | exactly | Mar 03 02:52 |
| cubezzz | it's all horsebleep | Mar 03 02:53 |
| MinceR | the jesuslandian legal system is a neverending source of comedy | Mar 03 02:53 |
| MinceR | if only it had no way of affecting me, i'd laugh at it all day. | Mar 03 02:53 |
| oiaohm | Problem with patents is that you can take them out without a working device | Mar 03 02:53 |
| oiaohm | Let alone a search for prior art | Mar 03 02:53 |
| cubezzz | not in Canada you can't | Mar 03 02:53 |
| oiaohm | Really. | Mar 03 02:53 |
| cubezzz | we don't have software patents | Mar 03 02:54 |
| oiaohm | There are some Canada device patents that you look at them thee is no way the device can work. | Mar 03 02:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | So whats the deal with Novell? Someone wants to buy it, but the source of the money cannot be traced? Funny isn't it, just in time before we see who will win the rights to the Unix copyrights. | Mar 03 02:54 |
| oiaohm | Completely no way. cubezzz | Mar 03 02:54 |
| cubezzz | it has to be tied to hardware | Mar 03 02:54 |
| oiaohm | The complete base rules of the patent system are screwed. | Mar 03 02:54 |
| oiaohm | Tied to hardware does not mean the hardware works. | Mar 03 02:55 |
| oiaohm | That is the big thing you can just patent a dream of a working hardware. | Mar 03 02:55 |
| cubezzz | how does it affect Linux users anyway? | Mar 03 02:55 |
| oiaohm | If you call device makers Linux users makes there life hard turning out devices at times. | Mar 03 02:55 |
| cubezzz | it's a big game of bluff | Mar 03 02:56 |
| oiaohm | When it should not be a game of bluff | Mar 03 02:56 |
| cubezzz | so just publishing programming specs and someone else will write it | Mar 03 02:56 |
| oiaohm | You have some new idea that works. You should have to present the working item to the patent office if you want patent protection. | Mar 03 02:56 |
| oiaohm | That would cut the patent numbers massively. | Mar 03 02:56 |
| oiaohm | Less than 10 percent I would guess could present a real working device. | Mar 03 02:57 |
| cubezzz | don't patents expire after 20 years? | Mar 03 02:57 |
| oiaohm | Software is 20 | Mar 03 02:57 |
| cubezzz | they can't endlessly renew them can they? | Mar 03 02:57 |
| DaemonFC | Mono, even RMS says Mono is "free", he also says that the patent laws of some countries subvert that. It makes me think of Mono being in the same legal class as the LAME MP3 encoder. I assume that if you only redistribute Mono as source code you're only describing a .Net compatible runtime and not actually providing one. | Mar 03 02:58 |
| oiaohm | There is a illegal process called evergreening cubezzz | Mar 03 02:58 |
| DaemonFC | That could be interesting given that Gentoo might be the only legal distributor of Mono outseide of Novell | Mar 03 02:58 |
| oiaohm | One patent expires you take out another covering the same kind of area. cubezzz | Mar 03 02:59 |
| cubezzz | I don't see any problem then | Mar 03 02:59 |
| DaemonFC | or other operating systems that use ports-like package management | Mar 03 02:59 |
| oiaohm | Due to no prior art checks that gets threw. cubezzz | Mar 03 02:59 |
| cubezzz | after 20 years all the patents should be expired | Mar 03 02:59 |
| cubezzz | so already a ton of them must have expired by now | Mar 03 02:59 |
| oiaohm | So company with the evergreen patent gets to apply it against there competition. cubezzz | Mar 03 02:59 |
| DaemonFC | Think about it. Gentoo is only sending you the source code, it's being compiled locally | Mar 03 03:00 |
| DaemonFC | how do they know that it will be compiled? ;) | Mar 03 03:00 |
| oiaohm | And unless the company being attacked with an evergreen patent can prove it they can be force to pay up. cubezzz | Mar 03 03:00 |
| cubezzz | DaemonFC, I pretty much do that with old Linux myself | Mar 03 03:00 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, When you distribute source only, it also falls under the first amendment of the US constitution | Mar 03 03:00 |
| DaemonFC | protected speech | Mar 03 03:00 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 03:01 |
| oiaohm | Both evergreening and no real item are major issues in the patent systems everywhere. cubezzz | Mar 03 03:01 |
| cubezzz | like decss ? :) | Mar 03 03:01 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, yeah and libdvdcss and such | Mar 03 03:01 |
| oiaohm | css is illegal in australia | Mar 03 03:01 |
| DaemonFC | you can print out the libdvdcss source code and wear it on a T-shirt | Mar 03 03:01 |
| oiaohm | Its regional coded. | Mar 03 03:01 |
| DaemonFC | they can't stop there either | Mar 03 03:01 |
| DaemonFC | *that | Mar 03 03:01 |
| oiaohm | So breachs our right to the trade of information freely. | Mar 03 03:01 |
| cubezzz | it's llegal, HA | Mar 03 03:01 |
| cubezzz | so I bet no one compiles it then right? :) | Mar 03 03:02 |
| cubezzz | and the patent police go into every house and check | Mar 03 03:02 |
| oiaohm | So we are allowed to items like decss perfectly fine. | Mar 03 03:02 |
| cubezzz | it's ridiculous | Mar 03 03:02 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, Do you have any concept of constitutionally-protected speech in Australia? | Mar 03 03:02 |
| DaemonFC | or even by statute? | Mar 03 03:02 |
| DaemonFC | if so, how can they deny that source code is speech or expression? | Mar 03 03:03 |
| oiaohm | We don't have constitutionally protected speech. | Mar 03 03:03 |
| oiaohm | We have constitutionally protected free trade. | Mar 03 03:03 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: he's living in a dictatorship and is happy about it. | Mar 03 03:03 |
| oiaohm | That is a whole different class of law. | Mar 03 03:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well, since css is illegal in Australia, its sort of, almost like a software patent? | Mar 03 03:04 |
| oiaohm | css distrupts people right to trade freely. | Mar 03 03:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oh, licence | Mar 03 03:04 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, I can't incite a riot, or plot o murder someone, or shout "FIRE!!!" in a crowded theater, but most speech and expression is protected | Mar 03 03:04 |
| DaemonFC | including source code | Mar 03 03:04 |
| oiaohm | Part of trading freely is the right to talk freely about issues. | Mar 03 03:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | no css, helps peole trade freely | Mar 03 03:05 |
| cubezzz | no bomb jokes at airports :) | Mar 03 03:05 |
| cubezzz | highly inadvisable | Mar 03 03:05 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, Falls under the threat to public safety idea | Mar 03 03:05 |
| cubezzz | but all that is common sense | Mar 03 03:05 |
| DaemonFC | same as "FIRE!!!!" in a movie theater | Mar 03 03:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and let them play the disks that they paid for on linux | Mar 03 03:05 |
| oiaohm | Basically our free speech laws come from free trade. | Mar 03 03:05 |
| cubezzz | I don't seem to have any trouble downloaded Linux ISOs | Mar 03 03:06 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | from patents and big corporations, | Mar 03 03:06 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | thats where your laws came from | Mar 03 03:06 |
| cubezzz | where's the big bad patent threat eh? | Mar 03 03:06 |
| cubezzz | sleeping? :) | Mar 03 03:06 |
| DaemonFC | the thing is that libdvdcss isn't actually a DRM crack | Mar 03 03:06 |
| *Ziomatrix (~who@ool-44c468e3.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 03:06 | |
| DaemonFC | it just generates random keys until one unlocks the disk | Mar 03 03:06 |
| oiaohm | Also we have anti descrimination rules based also constitutionally protected. | Mar 03 03:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | there is a blur between patents, licences, and copyrights | Mar 03 03:07 |
| cubezzz | software patents are just stupid | Mar 03 03:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | mostly, u in the same boat as the rest of us oiaohm. It not really the last free place in the world you know. | Mar 03 03:08 |
| cubezzz | clicking on a icon is patentable? | Mar 03 03:08 |
| oiaohm | Chips_B_Malroy: Yep but the issue is we have completely different names from things. | Mar 03 03:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | not completely | Mar 03 03:09 |
| oiaohm | Far enough. | Mar 03 03:09 |
| cubezzz | there's de facto and de jure | Mar 03 03:09 |
| oiaohm | USA people ask about free speech when the question here is free trade and fair trading. | Mar 03 03:09 |
| Ziomatrix | cubezzz: its more then that, businesses and people should have choice on how they want to distribute their software. So long as its not obussive and obstructive within itself to others | Mar 03 03:09 |
| cubezzz | we have freedom de jure | Mar 03 03:09 |
| DaemonFC | Christians are protected under the 1968 version of the US hate crimes bill, but when the government went to add gay people last year all of a sudden you have churches saying protected groups are unconstitutional | Mar 03 03:09 |
| Ziomatrix | oiaohm: turning it into a freedom pissing contest is not going to solve anything | Mar 03 03:10 |
| DaemonFC | wherre was this opinion over the 41 years they had been protected? | Mar 03 03:10 |
| cubezzz | I'm not pissing :) | Mar 03 03:10 |
| cubezzz | not at the moment anyway | Mar 03 03:10 |
| oiaohm | Really what is the point of free speech if you cannot trade. | Mar 03 03:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | let me boil it down for you, its about the rights of big rich multinational corporations that have turned to controling the govs of this world, at the expense of the people | Mar 03 03:10 |
| Ziomatrix | DaemonFC: its simple those folks opinions are so fanatically askewed that they would bite their own hand to spite the other's face | Mar 03 03:10 |
| DaemonFC | I never saw a massive church movement to get themselves delisted from the hate crimes protection bill from 1968 | Mar 03 03:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | including your country | Mar 03 03:10 |
| DaemonFC | did anyone else? | Mar 03 03:10 |
| cubezzz | no of course not | Mar 03 03:11 |
| cubezzz | I don't think it's even debatable | Mar 03 03:11 |
| DaemonFC | if protected groups are unconstitutional, lets roll the entire hate crimes law back | Mar 03 03:11 |
| DaemonFC | strike every protected group | Mar 03 03:11 |
| DaemonFC | yes? | Mar 03 03:11 |
| cubezzz | then you're going back to the 1950's | Mar 03 03:12 |
| DaemonFC | "It's the only way to uphold the constitution, thanks for bringing this up! | Mar 03 03:12 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Mar 03 03:12 |
| DaemonFC | no, roll the whole thing back and strike everyone | Mar 03 03:12 |
| DaemonFC | including the protected group status the Christians enjoy | Mar 03 03:13 |
| oiaohm | Hate crimes fall under anti descrimantation laws. Here. Anti-descrimantation laws can over throw goverment put forward laws. | Mar 03 03:13 |
| cubezzz | another example, transistors were patented but I think everyone can make transistors | Mar 03 03:13 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, It's bullshit anyway. The hate crimes laws in the US do not violate the constitution because you do not have freedom of expression when you murder someone. | Mar 03 03:13 |
| DaemonFC | cracking someone over the head with a bat then lynching them is not a protected activity that I'm aware of | Mar 03 03:14 |
| oiaohm | Anti descrimantion also covers refusing to trade with someone based on skin as well. DaemonFC | Mar 03 03:14 |
| cubezzz | I think GNU/Linux is fine, and safe enough | Mar 03 03:14 |
| cubezzz | getting back to the whole software patent thing | Mar 03 03:14 |
| cubezzz | the OEM thing, that is a major problem though | Mar 03 03:15 |
| oiaohm | Australian laws are more about allowing trade than anything else. | Mar 03 03:15 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, I know of very few businesses that want to lose 30% of their income | Mar 03 03:15 |
| DaemonFC | turning away inorities would kill their bottom line | Mar 03 03:15 |
| DaemonFC | *minorities | Mar 03 03:15 |
| oiaohm | But they did at one point in usa history. DaemonFC | Mar 03 03:16 |
| Ziomatrix | oiaohm: then why have they tried to implement such harsh ISP filtering measures? As well as for games? | Mar 03 03:16 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, minorities didn't used to be 30% of the population either | Mar 03 03:16 |
| DaemonFC | some businesses would be willing to absorb a 10% hit | Mar 03 03:17 |
| oiaohm | With money yes. DaemonFC | Mar 03 03:17 |
| cubezzz | what about the original natives? :) | Mar 03 03:17 |
| oiaohm | Blocking trade has nasty effects. DaemonFC | Mar 03 03:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | control=money at some point. MS knows this. Australia gov will do this in time | Mar 03 03:17 |
| cubezzz | they kind of got the shaft... | Mar 03 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, Yeah kind of. What happened to the ones in Canada? | Mar 03 03:17 |
| DaemonFC | about the same thing? | Mar 03 03:17 |
| Ziomatrix | cubezzz: have you ever been to Mohegan Sun? | Mar 03 03:17 |
| oiaohm | Ziomatrix: for games lot of games don't get produced here. So not good for trade also they don't face australian rating system. | Mar 03 03:18 |
| cubezzz | Ziomatrix, no | Mar 03 03:18 |
| cubezzz | DaemonFC, I would say so | Mar 03 03:18 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, Your government tells you what your children will see and hear. | Mar 03 03:18 |
| DaemonFC | *cough* fascism | Mar 03 03:19 |
| cubezzz | Canada government gives natives quite a lot of money nowadays though | Mar 03 03:19 |
| oiaohm | No the rules are broad. DaemonFC | Mar 03 03:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | if you can block the competition to filtering, and get away with it, why not? MS would not have any ethical problem doing this if they controlled the gov doing it | Mar 03 03:19 |
| DaemonFC | here we have industry self-regulations (hah) and voluntary store compliance. | Mar 03 03:19 |
| oiaohm | And self-regulation is why you banks had big problems. | Mar 03 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | video game ratings are getting to be like movie ratings were in the US in the 1970s, oiaohm | Mar 03 03:20 |
| cubezzz | self-reg doesn't work very well | Mar 03 03:20 |
| DaemonFC | everyone is trying to get an M rating on a game that's not all that hardcore | Mar 03 03:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it worked fine | Mar 03 03:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | very fine | Mar 03 03:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | made them trillions | Mar 03 03:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | too big to fail | Mar 03 03:21 |
| DaemonFC | M rating on a game is like an NC-17 on movies | Mar 03 03:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they controlled the gov | Mar 03 03:21 |
| cubezzz | well, when you put it that way... | Mar 03 03:21 |
| DaemonFC | most theaters won't run NC-17 though | Mar 03 03:21 |
| DaemonFC | so they try to not go higher than R | Mar 03 03:21 |
| cubezzz | wow, if they got trillions I should at least get a lousy million :) | Mar 03 03:21 |
| oiaohm | Our problem our game rates stop at PG. DaemonFC | Mar 03 03:21 |
| cubezzz | that's only one millionth as much cash :) | Mar 03 03:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | people here cannot even get their unemployment extended | Mar 03 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, so everything beyond that's like a no rating? | Mar 03 03:22 |
| cubezzz | what a mess | Mar 03 03:22 |
| oiaohm | Yep DaemonFC | Mar 03 03:22 |
| oiaohm | As I said our rating system need fixing. DaemonFC | Mar 03 03:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | that failed, but might get passed in a week or two for areas with higher than 8.5% unemployment, official | Mar 03 03:22 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, So you could conceivably have a game that should be a triple X rated video game, and it's just not rated | Mar 03 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | same with most other ones | Mar 03 03:23 |
| oiaohm | Not rated equals not allowed to be importanted. DaemonFC | Mar 03 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | oh | Mar 03 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | so you have to get them on ebay | Mar 03 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | in a plain brown box | Mar 03 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 03:23 |
| oiaohm | Since no one will dispute with regutaltor to create rules above PG no rules are forming. | Mar 03 03:23 |
| DaemonFC | what? they didn't sell Halo thare? | Mar 03 03:24 |
| oiaohm | Halo got into PG just. | Mar 03 03:24 |
| DaemonFC | so did they censor it or "massage" the rating system? | Mar 03 03:24 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Mar 03 03:24 |
| oiaohm | Some sections are missing. | Mar 03 03:24 |
| DaemonFC | damn | Mar 03 03:25 |
| DaemonFC | What is it with the Islamic Republic of Australia all of a sudden? | Mar 03 03:25 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 03:25 |
| oiaohm | Its no new. | Mar 03 03:25 |
| oiaohm | We need a few companies to dispute for higher rates. | Mar 03 03:25 |
| oiaohm | To create a list of what each of the higher rating should and should not have. | Mar 03 03:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | More like Red China Daemon | Mar 03 03:26 |
| oiaohm | So cease to be non rated. | Mar 03 03:26 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, Yeah, kind of | Mar 03 03:26 |
| oiaohm | That is they way the australia system was designed to work. | Mar 03 03:26 |
| DaemonFC | but even China's not that strict | Mar 03 03:26 |
| DaemonFC | China is more worried about ideas that subvert their government than they are about nudity and violence | Mar 03 03:27 |
| oiaohm | not goverments create what each rating is. But beformed by comuminty and company input. | Mar 03 03:27 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, Guessing Madworld isn't for sale there? | Mar 03 03:27 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Mar 03 03:27 |
| oiaohm | Yep the internet has screw the australian rating system up. | Mar 03 03:27 |
| oiaohm | So the rating body is firing arms against the internet to force the system to work right. | Mar 03 03:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Lets face it, Australia, its not the last free place, its going down the same rathole as the rest of the Western Democracies | Mar 03 03:27 |
| oiaohm | Australia has never been fully free. | Mar 03 03:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | agreed | Mar 03 03:28 |
| oiaohm | Some of the systems designed have been good. | Mar 03 03:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes | Mar 03 03:28 |
| oiaohm | But when they malfunction they do it in a big way. | Mar 03 03:28 |
| oiaohm | Like the design fo the rating system is brilent. | Mar 03 03:28 |
| Ziomatrix | DaemonFC: the PRC takes a page on from the USA and has plenty of action packed flying circus style kung fu series on TV | Mar 03 03:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the firewall | Mar 03 03:29 |
| oiaohm | If it would work. | Mar 03 03:29 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L5-W0vkc_E&feature=related | Mar 03 03:29 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Let's Play: Mad World [Wii][HD] - Part 10: Never Hit a Lady .::. Size~: 123.56 KB | Mar 03 03:29 |
| oiaohm | Firewall is a repsonce to the rating system not working. And the companies just deciding to import than deal with the rating system. | Mar 03 03:29 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, That's what I'm saying | Mar 03 03:30 |
| DaemonFC | companies would just import things they can't get | Mar 03 03:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | let me sum it up, you in the same boat as the rest of us. you can only argue about the rate that the boat is taking on water | Mar 03 03:30 |
| *Ziomatrix has quit () | Mar 03 03:31 | |
| oiaohm | Import by internet DaemonFC | Mar 03 03:36 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Mar 03 03:36 |
| oiaohm | Notice how many of those highly volient games have by on line and download options. | Mar 03 03:37 |
| oiaohm | How to by pass countries rating systems. Sooner or latter some country had to hit back. | Mar 03 03:37 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, TOR? | Mar 03 03:40 |
| oiaohm | That is the big thing lot of people not getting. | Mar 03 03:40 |
| oiaohm | This is a responce to a system not working. | Mar 03 03:41 |
| oiaohm | The second responce. 7 years ago ie 2001 there was a call for game companies to come and help design the higher rating systems. | Mar 03 03:41 |
| oiaohm | Opps 9 year ago. | Mar 03 03:42 |
| DaemonFC | I hate Russian websites | Mar 03 03:42 |
| DaemonFC | grrrr | Mar 03 03:42 |
| oiaohm | Doing another attempt to avoid the system will just risking triggering bigger responce. | Mar 03 03:42 |
| DaemonFC | click on this, watch these ads | Mar 03 03:42 |
| oiaohm | Basically the rating system gets fixed lot of the presure on games will disappar. | Mar 03 03:43 |
| DaemonFC | turn on pop ups | Mar 03 03:43 |
| oiaohm | Its not like the rating body is not wanting to create higher ratings. | Mar 03 03:43 |
| DaemonFC | click the wrong thing and wait again | Mar 03 03:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well the violet games issues, its sort of bogus. Both your country and mine, will put an 18 year old in a rice pattey with an M16, drafted, no choice. Now thats violet. | Mar 03 03:44 |
| oiaohm | Here is a pure lack of rating system. Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 03 03:45 |
| oiaohm | And the rules to create higher ratings need involement. | Mar 03 03:45 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, Translate Russian for my | Mar 03 03:45 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 03:45 |
| DaemonFC | *me | Mar 03 03:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you really need one for Halo, when u see a guy standing with a gun on the cover? | Mar 03 03:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | just make them all over 16 | Mar 03 03:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | let the parents buy them | Mar 03 03:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | them | Mar 03 03:46 |
| DaemonFC | Why no international outrage over Australia's lack of civil liberties? | Mar 03 03:46 |
| DaemonFC | invasion and regime change maybe? | Mar 03 03:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Oh, I forgot DaemonFC | Mar 03 03:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | hehe | Mar 03 03:47 |
| DaemonFC | their military wouldn't fare as well as Iraq's | Mar 03 03:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | no, I have nothing but respect for the Aussie military | Mar 03 03:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and the Brits too | Mar 03 03:48 |
| DaemonFC | they have 6 diesel submarines, woohoo | Mar 03 03:48 |
| DaemonFC | no nuclear strike capability | Mar 03 03:48 |
| DaemonFC | their air force is a bunch of aging F/A 18 Hornets | Mar 03 03:48 |
| DaemonFC | (72 of them) with bad frames | Mar 03 03:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and New Zealand doe snot let us port our ships there with nukes, the way it should be | Mar 03 03:49 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_content_rating_system Ok I forgot about MA15 that stops at 18 we have nothing for over 18. | Mar 03 03:49 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Video game content rating system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 48.95 KB | Mar 03 03:49 |
| DaemonFC | I think the Iraqi Air Force's Mirage fighters in the first Gulf War were more capable than Australia's primary fighter jets | Mar 03 03:49 |
| oiaohm | Our F/A 18 hornets are from the USA scrap yard. | Mar 03 03:49 |
| oiaohm | Cost us only shipping. | Mar 03 03:49 |
| DaemonFC | pretty much | Mar 03 03:49 |
| DaemonFC | what we were using in 1982 | Mar 03 03:49 |
| DaemonFC | no upgrades | Mar 03 03:50 |
| DaemonFC | if we invade Australia before we sell them the F-35, they're fucked | Mar 03 03:50 |
| DaemonFC | hehehe | Mar 03 03:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | why would the Aussies need F16's? They a peaceful bunch | Mar 03 03:50 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Mar 03 03:50 |
| oiaohm | if your USA forces are still as usless at holding on there ships we don't have a major problems. | Mar 03 03:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and MS already controls them | Mar 03 03:51 |
| DaemonFC | the old non-upgraded F/A-18 is obsolete even without the worn out frames | Mar 03 03:51 |
| oiaohm | A crew of 8 can operate most USA ships after australian control systems are fitted. | Mar 03 03:51 |
| DaemonFC | a squadron of F-22's would pulvarize several squadrons of F/A-18s | Mar 03 03:51 |
| DaemonFC | and probably take no losses doing it | Mar 03 03:51 |
| oiaohm | Not for sure. | Mar 03 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | faster, more maneuverable, better targeting system | Mar 03 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | the F/A-18 would lose | Mar 03 03:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Maybe, but we will probably go with "good" ugh M$ software to power those ships | Mar 03 03:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | wish I had that link now | Mar 03 03:52 |
| oiaohm | F-22 not as strong to magnetic pulse. | Mar 03 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, No, no Microsoft software on the F-22 | Mar 03 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | nor the F-35 | Mar 03 03:52 |
| DaemonFC | my dad worked on th radar system for the F-35 | Mar 03 03:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Ford now is brain dead advertising M$ software in their cars | Mar 03 03:53 |
| oiaohm | Also the australian F18 don't have any USA electronics left in them. | Mar 03 03:53 |
| DaemonFC | so? | Mar 03 03:53 |
| DaemonFC | They're still inferior and two generations old | Mar 03 03:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | neither do the iraealis | Mar 03 03:53 |
| DaemonFC | they pose no threat to a modern air force | Mar 03 03:53 |
| oiaohm | Other than the fact they can magnetic pulse. DaemonFC | Mar 03 03:53 |
| DaemonFC | Russian Migs could decimate the F/A-18 | Mar 03 03:54 |
| oiaohm | Yes was not a feature they F/A 18 had before we got them. | Mar 03 03:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Aussies like europe dosen't have to fight real wars | Mar 03 03:54 |
| DaemonFC | it's not just the US fighters that could have a field day with your fighter jets | Mar 03 03:54 |
| oiaohm | No USA topguns found out the hardway no. | Mar 03 03:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its the USA that gets itself into all these bush wars | Mar 03 03:54 |
| oiaohm | USA radar lock does not work. | Mar 03 03:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and the world's policeman | Mar 03 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | works fine | Mar 03 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | what we sold you didn't work well | Mar 03 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | Mar 03 03:55 |
| oiaohm | Not once pulse is on. | Mar 03 03:55 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | no it dosen't work fine | Mar 03 03:55 |
| oiaohm | Works up until that is turned on DaemonFC | Mar 03 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | we don't sell the good stuff | Mar 03 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | we cripple it | Mar 03 03:55 |
| DaemonFC | remove stuff still classified | Mar 03 03:55 |
| oiaohm | Reason why we striped all the electronics out. | Mar 03 03:55 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | because we are going broke being the world's policeman | Mar 03 03:55 |
| oiaohm | The Australian F18 has australian gear. | Mar 03 03:56 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, The F-35 is a damned impressive plane | Mar 03 03:56 |
| oiaohm | It was just a air frame to equip. | Mar 03 03:56 |
| DaemonFC | costs a fortune, but it is an amazng piece of hardware | Mar 03 03:56 |
| oiaohm | Same reason why Australia wants the complete software and lot. | Mar 03 03:56 |
| oiaohm | so we can alter it to carry some of our custom gear. | Mar 03 03:56 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | hope we do not build too many F35's | Mar 03 03:56 |
| DaemonFC | if it costs half again more than your enemy pays for theirs but you only need a third as many, it's worth the investment | Mar 03 03:57 |
| oiaohm | Like the Australian F18 can track a sleath bomber. | Mar 03 03:57 |
| oiaohm | From its onboard computers. | Mar 03 03:57 |
| oiaohm | Turn them of no more air time bomber. | Mar 03 03:57 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, We're actually getting a hell of a deal on the F-35 | Mar 03 03:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | on borrowed Red Chinese money | Mar 03 03:57 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, We had other countries pay for a lot of the development and agree to purchase a lot of them from us, at a profit | Mar 03 03:58 |
| oiaohm | Basically the Australian air craft no 100 percent walk over for USA aircraft. | Mar 03 03:58 |
| oiaohm | Russian on the other hand. | Mar 03 03:58 |
| DaemonFC | so we get a new fleet of fighters at half price | Mar 03 03:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | at some point the military has to be cut back. | Mar 03 03:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | at least one of these wars must end | Mar 03 03:58 |
| *bruce89 has quit (Quit: What's this button do?) | Mar 03 03:59 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the country cannot afford both | Mar 03 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, I think we should look into retiring a lot of old weaponry, including the M-16 | Mar 03 03:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | F16 | Mar 03 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | H&K has been demonstrating a much more powerful assault rifle | Mar 03 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | very reliable | Mar 03 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | bury it in mud and water and sand, dig it out, it fires | Mar 03 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | no overheating | Mar 03 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | it just works | Mar 03 04:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | AK47 was always a more reliable weapon than the M14 or M16 | Mar 03 04:00 |
| oiaohm | And we will most likely get F22 airframes out usa scrap heap as well DaemonFC | Mar 03 04:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | simple, you could throw a handful of sand into it and it still worked | Mar 03 04:00 |
| DaemonFC | this rifle I saw demonstrated makes the AK-47 look unraliable in comparison | Mar 03 04:01 |
| DaemonFC | *unreliable | Mar 03 04:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | a p51 mustang would be good enough for afganistan | Mar 03 04:01 |
| DaemonFC | don't remember the model number | Mar 03 04:01 |
| DaemonFC | I'll look it up in a bit | Mar 03 04:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | or any war the Aussies fight in | Mar 03 04:01 |
| DaemonFC | German company | Mar 03 04:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well, except Iraq the first gulf war, to be fair | Mar 03 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | they're training US Marines with this rifle to test them out | Mar 03 04:02 |
| oiaohm | Really when australian forces come home from a war they always come home with more guns and armor than they left with. | Mar 03 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | I was seriously impressed | Mar 03 04:02 |
| oiaohm | Its not having the best guns. | Mar 03 04:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I remember the name HK but cannot pronoucn it | Mar 03 04:02 |
| oiaohm | It making sure you can get and keep them. | Mar 03 04:02 |
| oiaohm | USA soliders are great to nick stuff from. | Mar 03 04:02 |
| DaemonFC | stuff like what? | Mar 03 04:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | we glad to let you have it, we have mostly the same interests in this world | Mar 03 04:03 |
| oiaohm | Guns Body armor jeeps.. Armored personal carriers. | Mar 03 04:03 |
| DaemonFC | The Russians have a military industrial complex nearly equal to our own | Mar 03 04:03 |
| oiaohm | War in iraq is going great for us. | Mar 03 04:03 |
| DaemonFC | technologically, they're the only ones which rival us | Mar 03 04:04 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 04:04 |
| DaemonFC | the Chinese have numbers | Mar 03 04:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and they have money | Mar 03 04:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the money that we borrow | Mar 03 04:04 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, but a war would go nuclear eventually | Mar 03 04:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | that funds these wars | Mar 03 04:04 |
| oiaohm | Also you love laughting about our subs. | Mar 03 04:04 |
| DaemonFC | so all three try not to go to war directly | Mar 03 04:04 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, diesel and noisy | Mar 03 04:05 |
| DaemonFC | noisy even for diesels | Mar 03 04:05 |
| oiaohm | Our subs are some of the only ones that can fake there sonar image to look like another sub. | Mar 03 04:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so why would the Aussie's need nuke subs? | Mar 03 04:05 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, Endurance and quietness | Mar 03 04:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | heck, they don't even need the diesel ones | Mar 03 04:05 |
| oiaohm | Really noisy is when they want to be seen. DaemonFC | Mar 03 04:05 |
| DaemonFC | surface and run the engines | Mar 03 04:06 |
| DaemonFC | woohoo | Mar 03 04:06 |
| oiaohm | Nukes make a constant noise. | Mar 03 04:06 |
| DaemonFC | now everyone knows you're there | Mar 03 04:06 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | mostly for training and drug interception? | Mar 03 04:06 |
| DaemonFC | they also don't have to surface | Mar 03 04:06 |
| oiaohm | Don't have to surface is there only advantage. | Mar 03 04:06 |
| DaemonFC | no | Mar 03 04:06 |
| DaemonFC | they can stay out longer | Mar 03 04:06 |
| oiaohm | Noise a diesel can complete switch to electric and go silent. | Mar 03 04:07 |
| DaemonFC | the reactor only needs refueling every couple years | Mar 03 04:07 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 03 04:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I am curious if Europe will rearm | Mar 03 04:07 |
| oiaohm | Really no point if you can not sneek up and attack. | Mar 03 04:07 |
| DaemonFC | ChanServ, You mean as the EU takes more power from its member states? | Mar 03 04:08 |
| DaemonFC | errr | Mar 03 04:08 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, | Mar 03 04:08 |
| DaemonFC | derrr | Mar 03 04:08 |
| oiaohm | Or like one war game where austrlaian typo and switch stelth to russian attack sub | Mar 03 04:08 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 04:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | because if they do not, and the USA fails economically, there will be a void | Mar 03 04:08 |
| oiaohm | Kinda caused usa panic. | Mar 03 04:08 |
| oiaohm | Russian attack sub in middle of USA fleet. | Mar 03 04:08 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, As long as they're in international waters, it's not a legal issue | Mar 03 04:09 |
| oiaohm | It what you call sonar profile mapping can only been done while running fully silent. | Mar 03 04:09 |
| DaemonFC | it's a pissing contest | Mar 03 04:09 |
| oiaohm | Australian waters at the time DaemonFC | Mar 03 04:09 |
| DaemonFC | if they come within 200 miles of our coast, we should send a torpedo plane | Mar 03 04:09 |
| DaemonFC | see if that wakes them up | Mar 03 04:09 |
| oiaohm | Middle of fleet and lined up on the aircraft carrior its kinda too late. | Mar 03 04:10 |
| DaemonFC | if they're in our waters, they should be given an ultimatum to turn away at once | Mar 03 04:10 |
| oiaohm | By the time the USA boats saw the sub the aircaft carrrior could have been bottom. | Mar 03 04:10 |
| DaemonFC | if that's not heeded, they should be torpedoed | Mar 03 04:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | remember the old classic games, sub simulators? 688, subwar 2020, | Mar 03 04:10 |
| oiaohm | You fleets means to detect the old school subs steelth running is poor. DaemonFC | Mar 03 04:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DOS days | Mar 03 04:11 |
| oiaohm | A nuke sub could not get that close on a USA fleet. | Mar 03 04:11 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, Not many countries use diesel anymore | Mar 03 04:11 |
| DaemonFC | they're still a threat | Mar 03 04:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they a target mostly | Mar 03 04:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically we are still running them because there is an advantage. | Mar 03 04:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | just like that Argentine battleship in the Falklands ware | Mar 03 04:12 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, The nature of a diesel submarine lets them exploit the fact that they're more quiet underwater running from batteries | Mar 03 04:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | *war | Mar 03 04:13 |
| DaemonFC | and in some situations that can make them more dangerous | Mar 03 04:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, but the German WW2 subs could only run a few minutes on batties underwater | Mar 03 04:13 |
| oiaohm | Also its size issue. | Mar 03 04:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | maybe 6 | Mar 03 04:13 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, Underwater, they can only run on batteries a matter of hours | Mar 03 04:14 |
| DaemonFC | then they have to surface and run the engines | Mar 03 04:14 |
| oiaohm | Not exactly. | Mar 03 04:14 |
| oiaohm | Australian subs can run engines under water for so long. | Mar 03 04:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | snorkel was developed by Germans in 43 or 44 | Mar 03 04:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | thinking 44 | Mar 03 04:14 |
| oiaohm | And its more than a few hours. | Mar 03 04:14 |
| oiaohm | Since the battry upgrades | Mar 03 04:14 |
| oiaohm | Its almost 48 hours. | Mar 03 04:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Das Boot, good flix | Mar 03 04:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | The Boat | Mar 03 04:15 |
| oiaohm | On battiries. | Mar 03 04:15 |
| oiaohm | Yes you can get a very long way when you can silent run for 48 hours. | Mar 03 04:16 |
| oiaohm | Enought to completely breach the USA fleet protection system and get out of there. | Mar 03 04:16 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] LOL :D "I know I'm a carpenter, but I've never liked installing windows." - via @jesus | Mar 03 04:17 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I like religous quotes, used some on M$ watch | Mar 03 04:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | You see, religion is a strange thing, it can say whatever you want it to. People have used it, and twisted it in history for as long as there has been religion. Religion is a form of control. But its was intended to be a guide to living. | Mar 03 04:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | And that would probably include most religions. | Mar 03 04:24 |
| oiaohm | Basically the Australian subs had a lot of after market work in the Australian ship yards. Fixing the noise problems. Normally australian mil order we want the chassy fix it after. | Mar 03 04:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | twine and duct tape most likely | Mar 03 04:24 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu also dropped Ekiga | Mar 03 04:25 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | Mar 03 04:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | So DaenonFC, you trying Buntu now? But then you seem to try them all don't you? Somehow, I think you really not the the MS fanboi that I orginally thought you were. | Mar 03 04:27 |
| oiaohm | No Chips_B_Malroy Carbon firber sheets.and other matterials to alter hull shape and redoing engines completely. | Mar 03 04:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiaohm> good anwser, I just couldn't resist the troll there | Mar 03 04:28 |
| oiaohm | Worst was the insanty of the maker. To hand make the props. | Mar 03 04:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | balance | Mar 03 04:28 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Mar 03 04:28 |
| oiaohm | Not one was right. | Mar 03 04:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they go out of balance | Mar 03 04:29 |
| oiaohm | Out of balance when new. | Mar 03 04:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | even a flywheel on an auto engine needs balance | Mar 03 04:29 |
| oiaohm | You don't stand a chance of an engine running well with that. | Mar 03 04:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the whole drivetrain for that matter | Mar 03 04:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but what will Australia ever need with subs? | Mar 03 04:30 |
| oiaohm | We have the new ones already on order. | Mar 03 04:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its just an expense, isn't it? | Mar 03 04:30 |
| oiaohm | For 2022 to start opertional usage | Mar 03 04:31 |
| oiaohm | Those include cruse missles. | Mar 03 04:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its not like China, Russia, or the USA is going invade it | Mar 03 04:31 |
| oiaohm | Our current are just sea killer. | Mar 03 04:32 |
| oiaohm | And they do match up to USA nuke class in performance. | Mar 03 04:32 |
| oiaohm | To be correct mostly out performs. | Mar 03 04:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ok, I was a bit out of line, I just don't see why Australia needs subs at all | Mar 03 04:33 |
| oiaohm | the replacement project will be designed as well as built in Australia. << Yep this time we are not trusting another country to build anything. | Mar 03 04:34 |
| oiaohm | We need them when we are up in the island north of australia | Mar 03 04:34 |
| oiaohm | You do cross china subs up there. | Mar 03 04:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | WW2, yes u did | Mar 03 04:35 |
| oiaohm | and indernesias | Mar 03 04:35 |
| oiaohm | We still do. | Mar 03 04:35 |
| oiaohm | When we go up there to sort out like timor | Mar 03 04:35 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | or are you referring to the crisis in East Timor? | Mar 03 04:35 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Mar 03 04:35 |
| oiaohm | When we go in to deal with the criseis that happen in our area we need the subs. | Mar 03 04:35 |
| oiaohm | They also have to be able to operate in shallow water. | Mar 03 04:36 |
| oiaohm | Lot shallower than the usa one can operate in effectively. | Mar 03 04:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | So, even Austrilia is the local policeman. Now don't take this wrong, but I am thankful that somebody did this. | Mar 03 04:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | But it does cost money | Mar 03 04:37 |
| oiaohm | We are liked by a lot of countries in the area. | Mar 03 04:37 |
| oiaohm | We get mining and oil rights out of doign the policeman role. | Mar 03 04:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I know, and believe it or not, Aussies are liked over here too | Mar 03 04:37 |
| oiaohm | So it really not costing us much. | Mar 03 04:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well respected here | Mar 03 04:38 |
| oiaohm | Without doing the role less access. | Mar 03 04:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | maybe you right, Australia should arm more, as USA is going have to cut back | Mar 03 04:38 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra_class_landing_helicopter_dock We are shaping our fleet for the jobs we do. | Mar 03 04:39 |
| oiaohm | Like what is the point of an aircraft cairror against island based problems. | Mar 03 04:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I don't see the Brits being able to do more, they done enough. They in the same fix as USA | Mar 03 04:39 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Canberra class landing helicopter dock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 55.23 KB | Mar 03 04:39 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Like what is the point of an aircraft cairror against island based problems. | Mar 03 04:39 |
| phIRCe-BNc | I don't see the Brits being able to do more, they done enough. They in the same fix as USA | Mar 03 04:39 |
| oiaohm | So we are building helicopter class. | Mar 03 04:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Timor is a nasty religous problem | Mar 03 04:40 |
| oiaohm | People don't understand australian good releations with china. | Mar 03 04:40 |
| oiaohm | Timor is a dispical case in our history. | Mar 03 04:40 |
| oiaohm | 6 of our people got killed there and then the goverment of australia covered it up. | Mar 03 04:41 |
| oiaohm | Due to not having the force to protect us. | Mar 03 04:41 |
| oiaohm | This is why are fleet will increase in force so that don't happen in our local area again. | Mar 03 04:42 |
| oiaohm | Basically taking east timor recoverd a war grave. | Mar 03 04:42 |
| oiaohm | china funny enough has fueled our warships when a few problems in our area have happened. | Mar 03 04:43 |
| oiaohm | China knows there forces would be hated and ours are liked so help out where they can. | Mar 03 04:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | China has in some ways come around, yes | Mar 03 04:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | your country did great things in that region in WW2, people remember | Mar 03 04:44 |
| oiaohm | Yet most would be shocked if they knew what those australian commanders had to pay. | Mar 03 04:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Just like in the Philiphines, Americans are most remembered as good | Mar 03 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | That was a real bad time to be Chinese | Mar 03 04:45 |
| DaemonFC | Japanese invasion on one side | Mar 03 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | Communist uprising on the other | Mar 03 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | you ever notice how the Communists say they're going to give everyone a better life and that all will be equal | Mar 03 04:46 |
| DaemonFC | and then you end up with a state like the PRC | Mar 03 04:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | In Nam, the Aussies were the very best troops | Mar 03 04:47 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] ok, geeks, who's used #smack with #xmpp #pubsub? I'm getting desperate with stuckage | Mar 03 04:47 | |
| DaemonFC | whereas Taiwan is basically free | Mar 03 04:47 |
| oiaohm | Kokoda Track commander got caught marsheled and complete dismissed never got a anything from the goverment. | Mar 03 04:47 |
| oiaohm | Because he failed to hold ground. | Mar 03 04:47 |
| oiaohm | Almost ever great australian event is followed by a court masheling of someone. | Mar 03 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | if a Communist government is so great, why did tens of thousands of Hungarians die trying to overthrow it in 1956? | Mar 03 04:48 |
| DaemonFC | why did the East Germans shoot so many people trying to get across into West Germany? | Mar 03 04:48 |
| oiaohm | What makes our troops so good in that part of theiring training is thinking on feet not just dumbly following orders. | Mar 03 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | and you still have assholes and student movement assholes talking about enacting a "Socialist" government like it wouldn't turn into what it has everywhere else every time one was set up | Mar 03 04:49 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, clear chain of command helps with that a lot | Mar 03 04:50 |
| oiaohm | No ours are designed to cope with chain of command shattered. | Mar 03 04:50 |
| oiaohm | To reform regroup and keep on going. | Mar 03 04:50 |
| DaemonFC | every soldier should be able to take over if there is no higher ranking one around | Mar 03 04:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ok, DaemonFC, let me ask you and others this: why did not Communism work? | Mar 03 04:50 |
| oiaohm | Really that is the problem. | Mar 03 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, Because you always get a totalitarian and corrupt state | Mar 03 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | not one that lives up to socialist "ideals" | Mar 03 04:51 |
| oiaohm | Lot of cases Australian forces can scatter with chain of commard unknown keep on fighting. | Mar 03 04:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | by why? | Mar 03 04:51 |
| DaemonFC | the state owns everything and that makes it easier for them to oppress people | Mar 03 04:51 |
| oiaohm | then work out chain of command after battle is over. | Mar 03 04:51 |
| oiaohm | Chain of commad is only important to get from point a to point b for them. | Mar 03 04:52 |
| oiaohm | Not part of the battle. | Mar 03 04:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I only partially like DaemonFC's anwser | Mar 03 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, The idea of the "President For Life" should offend any true socialist | Mar 03 04:52 |
| DaemonFC | much less the fact that there still are very rich people, usually the government officials who wanted to "equalize" everything | Mar 03 04:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | where communism and socialism fail, I think, is the fact that there will always be a rich class | Mar 03 04:53 |
| oiaohm | DaemonFC: Take this even jeep on road force appears in front of you. Australian forces can and do choose to scatter. At this point knowing where the commander of unit is can be impossiable. | Mar 03 04:53 |
| oiaohm | Instead force has to be able to operate without a fixed leader. | Mar 03 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | I don't think that a CEO of a company should be allowed to make more than 10 times his average-paid worker | Mar 03 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | I think that should be a statute law | Mar 03 04:54 |
| DaemonFC | Japan does something like that I think | Mar 03 04:55 |
| oiaohm | Also unlike the USA our f18 are also command and control. | Mar 03 04:55 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | In Soviet Russia that rich class became the ruling class, and then the black market | Mar 03 04:55 |
| oiaohm | The reason why f35 as so as they get here will have to be refited. | Mar 03 04:55 |
| oiaohm | so they can be upgraded for ground troup control. | Mar 03 04:55 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, No separate AWACS for that? | Mar 03 04:55 |
| oiaohm | We have Awacs | Mar 03 04:56 |
| DaemonFC | Iran does that, uses our old F-14 Tomcat for AWACS since they're out of ordnance for them | Mar 03 04:56 |
| oiaohm | Our system is designed to keep on going even if that is lost. | Mar 03 04:56 |
| oiaohm | Same with ground based command and control. | Mar 03 04:56 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, Iran also has to cannibalize other F-14s for parts | Mar 03 04:56 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | So if communism is total control (of all property) and captilism is controlled by a more and more controlling government, what is the differnence? | Mar 03 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | so they don't have many of them left | Mar 03 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | they don't have an effective fighter screen | Mar 03 04:57 |
| oiaohm | Our forces are designed to reform up command structs. | Mar 03 04:57 |
| oiaohm | All fighters can take command and control. | Mar 03 04:57 |
| oiaohm | Ie fighter jets. | Mar 03 04:57 |
| oiaohm | They are setup for it. | Mar 03 04:57 |
| DaemonFC | Iran would be wise to look into purchasing more updated fighter planes from other countries | Mar 03 04:58 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC> I get it, the Aussies don;t need an effective fighter screen, for that they have us and Britian, Canada, if needed | Mar 03 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | something that it can maintain for a while and defend itself with | Mar 03 04:58 |
| oiaohm | The can also operate an airborn mesh command and control. | Mar 03 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, Probably | Mar 03 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | Mutual defense treaties ftw! | Mar 03 04:58 |
| oiaohm | So take out 1 the mesh stays operating as if nothing happend. | Mar 03 04:58 |
| DaemonFC | they can sit there and criticize us for maintaining a fighting force that will end up defending them if the time comes | Mar 03 04:59 |
| DaemonFC | while they save all kinds of money by not having to protect themselves | Mar 03 04:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the Aussie military is mostly for limited regional disputes like that nasty religious one in Timor | Mar 03 04:59 |
| oiaohm | Awacs are not much use in areas like Timor | Mar 03 05:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC> be nice to the Aussies, they helped us in Nam, in most of the wars we fought too | Mar 03 05:00 |
| DaemonFC | most of the world only maintains enough of an army to stop an invasion from their neighbors | Mar 03 05:00 |
| oiaohm | Does not get close enough to get ground data. | Mar 03 05:00 |
| DaemonFC | you look at the Arab countries and see that in play | Mar 03 05:00 |
| oiaohm | We most don't have to. | Mar 03 05:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | true | Mar 03 05:00 |
| oiaohm | Most countries look at australian mill training and go crap. | Mar 03 05:01 |
| oiaohm | Don't go there. | Mar 03 05:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its tuff | Mar 03 05:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | very | Mar 03 05:01 |
| oiaohm | Part of there training is how to use the native toxins. | Mar 03 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | native to Australia? | Mar 03 05:01 |
| oiaohm | Tasteless very good human killers. | Mar 03 05:01 |
| oiaohm | Yep native to Australia | Mar 03 05:01 |
| DaemonFC | 1. How's that going to help on foreign soil? 2. I'd rather just shoot the other guy. :) | Mar 03 05:01 |
| oiaohm | And lots of the poisons there are no cures for. | Mar 03 05:02 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Mar 03 05:02 |
| DaemonFC | lots of things in Australia that can kill you | Mar 03 05:02 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 05:02 |
| oiaohm | Come on to australia be read for natural bio warfare. | Mar 03 05:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | got them wierd kane frogs there too | Mar 03 05:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | toads | Mar 03 05:03 |
| oiaohm | There posion is nothing. | Mar 03 05:03 |
| oiaohm | We are fruit here that some times it will kill you sometimes it will blind you and other times you can eat it. | Mar 03 05:03 |
| oiaohm | And problem they all look the same. | Mar 03 05:03 |
| oiaohm | So yes we can truly do the wicked witch on forces here. | Mar 03 05:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the supermarket is hell I bet | Mar 03 05:04 |
| oiaohm | No not in supermarket. | Mar 03 05:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I prefer the buffet in Vegas myself | Mar 03 05:04 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, Aren't those the frog with the tooth that poisons you? | Mar 03 05:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ^better | Mar 03 05:04 |
| *DaemonFC curls up | Mar 03 05:04 | |
| oiaohm | We have some toxins if you water crops with them any one to eat will die as well. | Mar 03 05:05 |
| oiaohm | Nothing like having too many bio weapons. | Mar 03 05:05 |
| oiaohm | We don't have nukes but we have the next best thing. | Mar 03 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | we have brown recluse spiders and water moccasins | Mar 03 05:05 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Mar 03 05:06 |
| oiaohm | Everyone has heard of the sidney spider. | Mar 03 05:06 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | there is nothing like a good nuke, its why the alatoyah wants them | Mar 03 05:06 |
| DaemonFC | Indiana's climate is too crazy for anything too awful to take up residence | Mar 03 05:06 |
| oiaohm | One point its releations are all accross australia. | Mar 03 05:06 |
| oiaohm | And the sidney one has the lightest posion. | Mar 03 05:06 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, How harsh is the winter there? | Mar 03 05:06 |
| oiaohm | Depends on where. | Mar 03 05:07 |
| oiaohm | Where I am its mostly what winter | Mar 03 05:07 |
| DaemonFC | move someplace with a good harsh winter | Mar 03 05:07 |
| DaemonFC | fixes a lot of that crap | Mar 03 05:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yep | Mar 03 05:07 |
| oiaohm | Sidney has a winter without snow fall. | Mar 03 05:07 |
| oiaohm | But its a winter | Mar 03 05:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so lots of poisonous snakes and bugs, if no show | Mar 03 05:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ^snow | Mar 03 05:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | if its wet | Mar 03 05:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Florida had that | Mar 03 05:08 |
| oiaohm | We have poisonous spiders and bugs that have no problems with snow | Mar 03 05:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | corel snakes, mocasins, etc | Mar 03 05:09 |
| oiaohm | Snakes don't like it. | Mar 03 05:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | sure, even the eastern rattlesnake can survive in New York State | Mar 03 05:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its snows there every winter too | Mar 03 05:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its desert here, but we have them, only the desert supports less live per acre | Mar 03 05:11 |
| DaemonFC | here too, annoying but it keeps the kudzu vine out of Indiana | Mar 03 05:11 |
| DaemonFC | that shit is tearing up the south | Mar 03 05:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Now Florida, had them everywhere, especially around water. | Mar 03 05:11 |
| DaemonFC | brilliant government idea to prevent soil erosion | Mar 03 05:11 |
| oiaohm | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Death_Adder << these mostly will live anywhere. | Mar 03 05:11 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Common Death Adder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 22.97 KB | Mar 03 05:11 |
| *sebsebseb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | Mar 03 05:12 | |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kudzu#United_States | Mar 03 05:12 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Kudzu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 94.04 KB | Mar 03 05:12 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 05:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but you know, we could have been discussing MS and the 5% increase in cost and what that meant? Instead of this | Mar 03 05:13 |
| DaemonFC | 5% increase? | Mar 03 05:13 |
| DaemonFC | on what? | Mar 03 05:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, DaemnoFC, it was b4 you got here, MS says it going spend 5% ;more this year as costs | Mar 03 05:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but really don't say where | Mar 03 05:14 |
| DaemonFC | with the idea being investments, right? | Mar 03 05:14 |
| oiaohm | They have to start spending to build the next windows OS | Mar 03 05:14 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Mar 03 05:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-03-02/microsoft-says-operating-expenses-may-rise-5-in-2011-update2-.html | Mar 03 05:14 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft Says Operating Expenses May Rise 5% in 2011 (Update3) - BusinessWeek .::. Size~: 46.28 KB | Mar 03 05:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | maybe | Mar 03 05:15 |
| DaemonFC | changing the wallpaper and switching around the interface a little costs that much? | Mar 03 05:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | not a bad thought, actually | Mar 03 05:15 |
| oiaohm | Testing to make sure you screwed nothing up with networking and the like. DaemonFC | Mar 03 05:15 |
| oiaohm | Costs a bit. | Mar 03 05:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | instead we talk about the Aussie military | Mar 03 05:16 |
| oiaohm | 5 percent increase in expence at this time would basically normal. | Mar 03 05:17 |
| oiaohm | Just due to where MS is in the OS development cycle. | Mar 03 05:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | maybe it cost extra to bribe companies to sue google? | Mar 03 05:17 |
| oiaohm | Now if it was 10 percent we would be wondering where the extra 5 percent was going. | Mar 03 05:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | or to get OEM's to install Windows CE instead of GNU/Linux or Chrome on ARM | Mar 03 05:18 |
| oiaohm | Not enough for that. | Mar 03 05:18 |
| DaemonFC | Windows CE has never helped sales on any hardware | Mar 03 05:18 |
| oiaohm | Heck I had one stupid idiot say that windows 7 starter was for arm chips. | Mar 03 05:18 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oh, come on, Windows CE is god awful good | Mar 03 05:18 |
| oiaohm | Since it is sold for netbooks. | Mar 03 05:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | lol | Mar 03 05:19 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, Tell that to Sega | Mar 03 05:19 |
| DaemonFC | look what wondrous WinCE games came out on the DreamCast | Mar 03 05:19 |
| oiaohm | Really I am waiting for fanotify | Mar 03 05:19 |
| oiaohm | In Linux kernel. | Mar 03 05:19 |
| oiaohm | When Linux OEMS can standard selling real-time scanning with Linux machines. | Mar 03 05:20 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, The games on WinCE were so limited that it ruined the game | Mar 03 05:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | a system that every release is not compatable with the last one, WinMO | Mar 03 05:20 |
| DaemonFC | developing for the native OS was the only way to go | Mar 03 05:20 |
| oiaohm | WinMO is basically no more as OS. | Mar 03 05:20 |
| oiaohm | Its now just a skin for Windows CE | Mar 03 05:20 |
| oiaohm | Now the question is how long before Windows CE goes by by as well. | Mar 03 05:20 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | So, do I confuse CE with WinMO. or are they about the same thing? | Mar 03 05:20 |
| oiaohm | Windows Mobile 7 has a Windows CE core | Mar 03 05:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes | Mar 03 05:21 |
| oiaohm | Before that it was its own OS. | Mar 03 05:21 |
| oiaohm | Basically MS completely axed a department. | Mar 03 05:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | It lives again to compete only with Linux or Chrome Linux on ARM | Mar 03 05:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Its the XP trick of making OEM's put it | Mar 03 05:22 |
| oiaohm | And its losing. | Mar 03 05:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I think it will | Mar 03 05:22 |
| oiaohm | XP had applications. | Mar 03 05:22 |
| oiaohm | CE really does not. | Mar 03 05:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but its not set in stone yet | Mar 03 05:23 |
| oiaohm | XP works because makers can sell items Like anti-viruses as well to make more moeny. | Mar 03 05:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well, I am not so sure of that | Mar 03 05:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but this is an interesting story that should unfold before the end of the year | Mar 03 05:24 |
| oiaohm | Yep reason why I want to see the out come of fanotify. | Mar 03 05:24 |
| oiaohm | Could change the game. | Mar 03 05:24 |
| oiaohm | Pushing crap ware is part of the profit game. | Mar 03 05:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | That CE/WInMO cost money, yes. Its not free. Could not care less what M$ spends to save the phone, its dead. What I want, is GNU/Linux on Smartbooks ARM, without M$ twisting the OEM's arms | Mar 03 05:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | But what I see is more Gates. | Mar 03 05:26 |
| oiaohm | people say how to you compete with free. | Mar 03 05:27 |
| oiaohm | Simple stack enough crap in adversiting with it that is - value. | Mar 03 05:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | more twisted deals, more kickbacks, more NDA's, more patent deals, more corruption from M$, more monopoly to keep Linux and its freedoms from users | Mar 03 05:27 |
| oiaohm | Now when free starts stacking crap with it to take - you have big problems. | Mar 03 05:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and I see Google, not getting it | Mar 03 05:28 |
| oiaohm | Google is not worried. | Mar 03 05:29 |
| oiaohm | They are in the adversting game. | Mar 03 05:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Google is going get it butt kicked, if it does not get down and fight dirty like m$ IS DOING AND go after them | Mar 03 05:29 |
| oiaohm | Google is offering carries kick backs from the app stores. | Mar 03 05:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | same with Adobe, they are next, after google | Mar 03 05:29 |
| oiaohm | Google is not what you call playing clean either. | Mar 03 05:29 |
| oiaohm | Google is basically hmm apps store we don't need all that money. | Mar 03 05:30 |
| oiaohm | Here carriers you want a cut. | Mar 03 05:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | not even a shade of darkness is google compared to MS | Mar 03 05:30 |
| oiaohm | Really its the smartter move. | Mar 03 05:30 |
| oiaohm | Its the carreir the decides what phones they will buy. | Mar 03 05:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | lets hope you right | Mar 03 05:30 |
| oiaohm | And what phones you will offer to the end user. | Mar 03 05:31 |
| oiaohm | So if you can cutt MS off that table MS is out game. | Mar 03 05:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | again, could care less about phones, even Ballmer must know by now that MS have completely lost the phone market. | Mar 03 05:31 |
| oiaohm | Smart books | Mar 03 05:31 |
| oiaohm | Note how many people have netbooks with wireless G internet | Mar 03 05:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ARM laptops (smartbooks) are the only game left for CE/WinMO | Mar 03 05:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the only reason to continue that | Mar 03 05:32 |
| oiaohm | Problem is phone and netbook market are crossing. | Mar 03 05:32 |
| oiaohm | And its only a matter of time until that scales up. | Mar 03 05:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, usb 3g, agreed, smartbooks, going be big | Mar 03 05:33 |
| oiaohm | Now how long before people only want to use 1 OS. | Mar 03 05:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its the only reason for MS to continue WinMO | Mar 03 05:33 |
| oiaohm | Ie same Os on phone PC and notebook. | Mar 03 05:33 |
| oiaohm | Yep MS is trying to slow attack. | Mar 03 05:33 |
| oiaohm | But I don't see WinMO as going to do anything to slow it. | Mar 03 05:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | no, they trying to keep the desktop | Mar 03 05:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | same plan as always | Mar 03 05:34 |
| oiaohm | Linux at moment wants the embemded market. | Mar 03 05:34 |
| oiaohm | If it can get that. It could over double the developers they have. | Mar 03 05:35 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | what you don't what Vista??? Ok, we give you XP for cheap on Netbooks in USA(intels). They will do the same, are doing the same, with CE/WinMO on ARM Smartbooks | Mar 03 05:35 |
| oiaohm | Now developers are life blood to open source. | Mar 03 05:35 |
| oiaohm | Problem is biggest makers of phones have no interesting in CE/WinMo | Mar 03 05:36 |
| oiaohm | They don't even make phones with it. | Mar 03 05:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Phones, yes | Mar 03 05:36 |
| oiaohm | And the phone providers will be looking to enter the smartbook market. | Mar 03 05:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | phone we aree that MS has lost it | Mar 03 05:36 |
| oiaohm | and most likely push anyone else out way. | Mar 03 05:36 |
| oiaohm | Ie you want our phones buy our smartbooks. | Mar 03 05:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the droid got them | Mar 03 05:37 |
| oiaohm | So controlling from carrior again. | Mar 03 05:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 03 05:37 | |
| oiaohm | I can see MS trying to win a lot of anti-trust cases. | Mar 03 05:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MS is still on plan A | Mar 03 05:38 |
| oiaohm | Because all the old dirty cards MS uses are now being used by everyone else. | Mar 03 05:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | make sure Windows is installed on every computer including ARM. Plan A | Mar 03 05:38 |
| oiaohm | And attack by proxy. | Mar 03 05:38 |
| oiaohm | Recent attack on google ms was forced to come clean. | Mar 03 05:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | No, I disaagree that everyone else sinks to MS levels and plays the same cards. Google is not, and even IBM did not | Mar 03 05:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | If fact, very very few companies do | Mar 03 05:40 |
| oiaohm | Google is playing some of the same. | Mar 03 05:40 |
| oiaohm | Like direct deals with carrers. | Mar 03 05:41 |
| oiaohm | MS did that early on. | Mar 03 05:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | by coming clean, you mean MS was finially forced to admitt its fault after how many denials? | Mar 03 05:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | direct deals with carriers is nothing like funding 3rd party companies to sue or to attack | Mar 03 05:42 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | one is a direct business deal, in public, the other underhanded | Mar 03 05:42 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, Apparently Canonical will be caching downloaded MP3s locally | Mar 03 05:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you are dealing with those who push the envelope, legally, | Mar 03 05:43 |
| DaemonFC | so future buyers get that file from Canonical | Mar 03 05:43 |
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| Chips_B_Malroy | Google need s to go after them | Mar 03 05:44 |
| oiaohm | Not really Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 03 05:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | we will see, i hope you right oiaohm | Mar 03 05:44 |
| oiaohm | You know the one problem of attacking google with the EU what happens if you lose | Mar 03 05:44 |
| oiaohm | EU courts don't take too kindly to having there time wasted Chips_B_Malroy | Mar 03 05:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | they wants fines | Mar 03 05:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but, heck, I like that they fine MS. Anything that saps MS of stength is good | Mar 03 05:46 |
| oiaohm | And I don't think google has done anything they can be fined over. | Mar 03 05:46 |
| oiaohm | All google has todo is win then ask why did MS accuse us of this. | Mar 03 05:47 |
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| oiaohm | With the words following are they doing this. | Mar 03 05:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | there you might be wrong and yet so right. If money passes the right hands, you can be convicted of most anything | Mar 03 05:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | do you know any company that would stoop so low | Mar 03 05:48 |
| oiaohm | EU courts when it comes to anti competion where money bribes don't work | Mar 03 05:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | like who would, might be behind SCO? | Mar 03 05:48 |
| oiaohm | Novell | Mar 03 05:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | we will see if bribes, gifts, swag, favors, etc. work with the EU. that is still to be determined | Mar 03 05:49 |
| oiaohm | Novell made huge profits from Novell netware. Linux basically gutted them. | Mar 03 05:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well, I think it was partially Windows that also gutted them | Mar 03 05:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | partly | Mar 03 05:50 |
| oiaohm | No Novell netware was being gutted by Linux before MS released windows 2000 | Mar 03 05:50 |
| oiaohm | w | Mar 03 05:50 |
| oiaohm | Windows 2000 just cleaned up the straglers. | Mar 03 05:50 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, they were on the decline since the Dos days mostly | Mar 03 05:50 |
| oiaohm | Novell historicly is a closed source company. | Mar 03 05:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | NT4 I think got em | Mar 03 05:51 |
| oiaohm | No NT4 did not effect Novell market share | Mar 03 05:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | 96 wasn't it? | Mar 03 05:52 |
| oiaohm | Novell run stably | Mar 03 05:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Novell Netware 4.11? | Mar 03 05:52 |
| oiaohm | NT4 kinda would barf | Mar 03 05:52 |
| oiaohm | I would have to wikipedia the dates. | Mar 03 05:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but if it could do what netware did, and was included in NT4, like the Netscape vs IE, that was the beginning of the end for Novell | Mar 03 05:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | didn't Novell sue MS for ripping off its code in NT4 and win? | Mar 03 05:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | wikipedia | Mar 03 05:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I did not look | Mar 03 05:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but my memory is not always good | Mar 03 05:54 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | whatever you and I think of NT4, it was a killer for Novell Netware and IBM OS/2 | Mar 03 05:55 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | 1996 | Mar 03 05:56 |
| oiaohm | No 2000 was the killer to netware | Mar 03 05:56 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I think | Mar 03 05:56 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ok the start of the killer | Mar 03 05:56 |
| oiaohm | All the way up to windows 2000 netware rules here. | Mar 03 05:56 |
| oiaohm | Followed by Linux with samba. | Mar 03 05:56 |
| oiaohm | Then NT4 a distance last. | Mar 03 05:56 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | links please | Mar 03 05:56 |
| oiaohm | There was a simple reason. | Mar 03 05:57 |
| oiaohm | NT4 user management suxed. | Mar 03 05:57 |
| oiaohm | Even worse than ldap. | Mar 03 05:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you maybe right, but memory thinks different. | Mar 03 05:57 |
| oiaohm | Basically the introduction of ADS caused MS to take off. | Mar 03 05:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Gates was not afriad to "borrow" code | Mar 03 05:57 |
| oiaohm | Linux has not provided a equal to ADS yet. | Mar 03 05:58 |
| oiaohm | Neither has apple. | Mar 03 05:58 |
| oiaohm | That is why both OS's have failed to dominate. | Mar 03 05:58 |
| oiaohm | Also before ADS NT4 really did not scale in large networks either. | Mar 03 06:00 |
| oiaohm | Both samba and novell network could. | Mar 03 06:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so what does this have to do with NT4 and Netware? | Mar 03 06:00 |
| oiaohm | Netware was design to scale to multi locations. | Mar 03 06:00 |
| oiaohm | Including replication between locations. | Mar 03 06:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I think networking was in NT$ | Mar 03 06:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | NT4 | Mar 03 06:01 |
| oiaohm | Not multi server replication. | Mar 03 06:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | borrowed, code from Novell | Mar 03 06:01 |
| oiaohm | NT4 only supported PDC and BDC | Mar 03 06:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | NT4 was multiusers | Mar 03 06:01 |
| oiaohm | Ie 2 severs | Mar 03 06:01 |
| oiaohm | If you had 2 locations. | Mar 03 06:01 |
| oiaohm | fine | Mar 03 06:01 |
| oiaohm | If you had 3 screwed | Mar 03 06:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I ran it | Mar 03 06:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I remember it | Mar 03 06:01 |
| oiaohm | Same | Mar 03 06:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ok | Mar 03 06:02 |
| oiaohm | Both samba and Netware out scaled NT4 | Mar 03 06:02 |
| oiaohm | Samba scaryly so. | Mar 03 06:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | all I am saying, is that the code stealing and killing of Novell went back further | Mar 03 06:02 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | than 2000 | Mar 03 06:02 |
| oiaohm | The stealing before 2000 was not a killer move to Novell | Mar 03 06:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it was actually | Mar 03 06:03 |
| oiaohm | To be correct novell used it to force MS to ship Novell support in there clients. | Mar 03 06:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it just took time to kill them | Mar 03 06:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | just like with Netscape | Mar 03 06:03 |
| oiaohm | So windows 3.11 to end of windows ME shipped with perfect support for Novell servers. | Mar 03 06:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ah, that is true | Mar 03 06:04 |
| oiaohm | Thinking Novell was not in the client game. | Mar 03 06:04 |
| oiaohm | They wanted to be only in the server game. | Mar 03 06:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ship Novell support in windows, maybe you right, or not. and maybe that is what I was thinking | Mar 03 06:04 |
| oiaohm | That is what made Novell a sitting duck. | Mar 03 06:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | No Oiaohm | Mar 03 06:05 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[daemonfc] Using Songbird 1.4.3 on Ubuntu, great extensions, features, powerful library, and recognizes my Sansa. Few bugs. http://bit.ly/bOEFou 4/5 | Mar 03 06:05 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Skyzim | Latest Downloads .::. Size~: 25.28 KB | Mar 03 06:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | that is not what made Novell a sitting duck | Mar 03 06:05 |
| oiaohm | Novell pre 2000 made no client side OS's | Mar 03 06:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it was the money | Mar 03 06:05 |
| oiaohm | Even until they aquired SUSE they still did not. | Mar 03 06:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | think of it this way | Mar 03 06:06 |
| oiaohm | This ment when MS pulled support for them. It was over. | Mar 03 06:06 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[daemonfc] GetDeb is down. *sadface* :( | Mar 03 06:06 | |
| oiaohm | OS/2 fell due to other reasons. | Mar 03 06:06 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | at some point, a piece of software becomes perfected | Mar 03 06:06 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Netware was not an exception to this rule | Mar 03 06:06 |
| oiaohm | Really it was not perfected. | Mar 03 06:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | why can't others perfect it too? | Mar 03 06:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ok, close to it, acceptable, whatever | Mar 03 06:07 |
| oiaohm | Netware was pure server side. | Mar 03 06:07 |
| oiaohm | MS put up a offer that was intergation between server and client. | Mar 03 06:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the point is how many times must we reinvent the wheel? | Mar 03 06:07 |
| oiaohm | Ie Netware lack of control of client left it sitting duck. | Mar 03 06:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Novell Netware did it, now MS does it, and Linux | Mar 03 06:08 |
| oiaohm | So far we have never got the wheel right. | Mar 03 06:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its Netscape all over again | Mar 03 06:08 |
| oiaohm | Everyone sitts back yes we have it perfect. | Mar 03 06:08 |
| oiaohm | Problem is something is missing. | Mar 03 06:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you argue for perfection | Mar 03 06:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but thats not what it was about | Mar 03 06:09 |
| DaemonFC | Netscapre open sourced too late to do them much good | Mar 03 06:09 |
| oiaohm | Really its not reinventing. | Mar 03 06:09 |
| DaemonFC | *Netscape | Mar 03 06:09 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its was about money, and good enough | Mar 03 06:09 |
| DaemonFC | few of their former employees still work at Mozilla | Mar 03 06:09 |
| oiaohm | core of netware is ldap. | Mar 03 06:09 |
| oiaohm | Core of windows 2000 is ldap | Mar 03 06:09 |
| oiaohm | Its reshaping of the same thing. | Mar 03 06:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | borrowed code | Mar 03 06:10 |
| oiaohm | We are trying to get a wheel out of it. | Mar 03 06:10 |
| oiaohm | That works. | Mar 03 06:10 |
| DaemonFC | Netscape should have open sourced after version 3 went out | Mar 03 06:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I wish I still had a link for this | Mar 03 06:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but the guy that made windowsblinds | Mar 03 06:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | said | Mar 03 06:11 |
| DaemonFC | WindowBlinds slows Windows down a LOT | Mar 03 06:11 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | that anyone that made software for windows, that sold well, would get killed by MS, as MS would try to clone it | Mar 03 06:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | or give it away for free | Mar 03 06:12 |
| DaemonFC | I've never been big on bloat, I used XP with BlackBox for a long time | Mar 03 06:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I never used windowsblinds | Mar 03 06:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | btw | Mar 03 06:12 |
| DaemonFC | it was so much lighter and faster than Explorer | Mar 03 06:12 |
| DaemonFC | Explorer is not particularly well designed and leaks tons of memory | Mar 03 06:13 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | he made galactic empires, for OS/2 also, Brian something | Mar 03 06:13 |
| DaemonFC | at least through XP it just keeps growing | Mar 03 06:13 |
| *Diablo-D3 (~diablo@pool-64-222-232-11.port.east.myfairpoint.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 06:13 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but the link is gone from history forever | Mar 03 06:13 |
| DaemonFC | Why would anyone have ported anything to OS/2? | Mar 03 06:14 |
| DaemonFC | it was DOA the day Windows NT came out | Mar 03 06:14 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | cause it was an superior OS at the time | Mar 03 06:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and NT did not come out till later | Mar 03 06:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | as NT was basically OS/2 | Mar 03 06:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but IBM messed up royally | Mar 03 06:15 |
| DaemonFC | more people probably use Linux now than used OS/2 at any time | Mar 03 06:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | cost 3x as much as 95 | Mar 03 06:16 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, lots of businesses standardized employee desktops on Windows 95 | Mar 03 06:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | used 3x as much memory, which costs major bucks back then | Mar 03 06:16 |
| DaemonFC | cause NT 4 workstations was so expensive | Mar 03 06:16 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and then, MS controlled the press and attacked IBM without mercy | Mar 03 06:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but OS/2 got 6% of the market back then, which is only something that maybe Linux has done only recently | Mar 03 06:17 |
| DaemonFC | right, Microsoft got IBM to write a fair amount of what became Windows NT for free | Mar 03 06:18 |
| DaemonFC | I'm sure that was always the point | Mar 03 06:18 |
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| DaemonFC | NT has support for plug-in APIs, Win32 is just one such plug-in | Mar 03 06:18 |
| DaemonFC | It's had POSIX and OS/2 support before, right in the kernel | Mar 03 06:19 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I think up to 2000 windows still had OS/2 files in it | Mar 03 06:19 |
| DaemonFC | but the POSIX support was POSIX.1 and OS/2 was for Microsoft OS/2 1.2 | Mar 03 06:20 |
| DaemonFC | both of which were removed in XP and later | Mar 03 06:20 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Windows has just enough POSIX support so meet US government requirements | Mar 03 06:20 |
| DaemonFC | now it's provided as Services for UNIX-based Applications | Mar 03 06:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Vista still stole the voice reconiztion feature that OS/2 Version 4 had in 1998. From now on, MS can only steal from Linux and Mac | Mar 03 06:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | 1998 you had OS/2 with voice controls built in | Mar 03 06:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | that is how far MS has put us behind | Mar 03 06:22 |
| DaemonFC | voice recognition on Vista is terrible | Mar 03 06:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes | Mar 03 06:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | nobody uses it | Mar 03 06:22 |
| DaemonFC | notice how 7 doesn't even offer it to you now? | Mar 03 06:22 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | except the malware writters were going gaga | Mar 03 06:23 |
| DaemonFC | it still supports it but you have to go digging to enable it | Mar 03 06:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | as in "format C" | Mar 03 06:23 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | 2nd thought, maybe thats the best you can do for Vista, is Format C: | Mar 03 06:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | y or n? | Mar 03 06:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | y | Mar 03 06:24 |
| DaemonFC | that was a Norton scare tactic | Mar 03 06:24 |
| DaemonFC | no malware ever actually did that | Mar 03 06:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Vista is not Malware???? | Mar 03 06:25 |
| DaemonFC | there's easier ways that are more guaranteed to attack Windows than hope their voice recognition is on and listening | Mar 03 06:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I have seen malware that was as not as painful as working with Vista is | Mar 03 06:26 |
| DaemonFC | besides, there's virtually no malware out there that is designed to wreck your system anymore | Mar 03 06:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | wrong | Mar 03 06:26 |
| DaemonFC | most of it is trying to make money or subvert your system to relay spam | Mar 03 06:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | wrong wrong | Mar 03 06:26 |
| DaemonFC | not to jsut mindlessly trash the system | Mar 03 06:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MS updates will trash your system | Mar 03 06:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its the worst kind of malware | Mar 03 06:27 |
| DaemonFC | a very small percentage of malware is designed to trash the system for no reason | Mar 03 06:27 |
| DaemonFC | most of it is written by organized crime, to make money | Mar 03 06:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | never trust it | Mar 03 06:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | patches on top of patches | Mar 03 06:27 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | at some point the whole rotton house or patches comes down | Mar 03 06:28 |
| DaemonFC | most falls under the class of, worms, trojans, and spyware | Mar 03 06:28 |
| DaemonFC | not viruses as such | Mar 03 06:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I said malware, not viruses specially | Mar 03 06:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | update is a trojan | Mar 03 06:28 |
| DaemonFC | can be | Mar 03 06:28 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and spyware | Mar 03 06:29 |
| DaemonFC | I'd define the activation exploit checker as a trojan horse | Mar 03 06:29 |
| DaemonFC | the user will install it believing it to do something useful to them | Mar 03 06:29 |
| DaemonFC | and it nukes the system | Mar 03 06:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | how about Vista having to reboot in the middle of a download or a burn? | Mar 03 06:29 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | because of windows update | Mar 03 06:29 |
| DaemonFC | well, that's not entirely true | Mar 03 06:30 |
| DaemonFC | it gives you a nag screen and a 4 minute countdown to override it and not reboot | Mar 03 06:30 |
| DaemonFC | but yeah, shouldn't ever reboot without you telling it OK | Mar 03 06:30 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I have had users bring me their computer with Vista on it and turn off windows update because of the stupid rebooting problem | Mar 03 06:30 |
| DaemonFC | turning it off is not best | Mar 03 06:31 |
| DaemonFC | set it to notify but don't download or install | Mar 03 06:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well, not everyone babysits a computer every 4 minutes too | Mar 03 06:31 |
| DaemonFC | well, this way it just tells you when there are updates | Mar 03 06:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you get the idea? | Mar 03 06:31 |
| DaemonFC | you have to OK their download or install | Mar 03 06:31 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | no, you allow updates | Mar 03 06:32 |
| DaemonFC | this is about like most OS updater applets work by default | Mar 03 06:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | which most people do | Mar 03 06:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | the point is they changed how it worked from XP | Mar 03 06:32 |
| DaemonFC | well, the applet can sit harmlessly there until you want to install them | Mar 03 06:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it can | Mar 03 06:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but somehow | Mar 03 06:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | hehe | Mar 03 06:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it hosed | Mar 03 06:33 |
| DaemonFC | With Vista, anything can happen for any reason at any time | Mar 03 06:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | why then do so many want me to turn it off for them? | Mar 03 06:33 |
| DaemonFC | it's batshit crazy | Mar 03 06:33 |
| DaemonFC | I'm not defending it | Mar 03 06:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I know | Mar 03 06:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it sucks | Mar 03 06:34 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, They're stupid | Mar 03 06:34 |
| DaemonFC | ignoring updates is a bad thing to do | Mar 03 06:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well, I told them, you need updates | Mar 03 06:34 |
| DaemonFC | they just want the thing to shut up | Mar 03 06:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | mostly I think u right there | Mar 03 06:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/microsoft-cautions-ie-faithful-on-windows-xp-to-avoid-f1-key/ | Mar 03 06:34 |
| DaemonFC | did you tell them that most new malware written is exploiting things MS just patched> | Mar 03 06:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I explained too | Mar 03 06:34 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft tells IE faithful on Windows XP to avoid F1 key -- Engadget .::. Size~: 201.47 KB | Mar 03 06:34 |
| *Diablo-D3 facepalms | Mar 03 06:34 | |
| DaemonFC | and starts cropping up within a week | Mar 03 06:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Windows can never be secured | Mar 03 06:35 |
| DaemonFC | being current on updates helps | Mar 03 06:35 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | sure, if it dosen't bonk your system | Mar 03 06:35 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and it does more than MS admitts | Mar 03 06:36 |
| DaemonFC | malware writers are an opportunistic bunch that likes to go after low hanging fruit | Mar 03 06:36 |
| DaemonFC | if you pick up the watermelons, it goes a long way :P | Mar 03 06:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MS is low hanging fruit. but mostly its on the ground half rotten | Mar 03 06:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | really, I would actually love for MS to do some good work and try to secure windows. | Mar 03 06:37 |
| DaemonFC | good practices are a good deterrent. Linux distros have usually enforced good practices | Mar 03 06:37 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu is changing that in some ways though | Mar 03 06:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes | Mar 03 06:37 |
| DaemonFC | I fully expect malware to hit Ubuntu users first | Mar 03 06:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/JOPWFEMseZ8/A-Second-Lessig-Fair-Use-Video-Is-Suppressed-By-WMG | Mar 03 06:38 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Google FeedBurner .::. Size~: 11.51 KB | Mar 03 06:38 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu in the default set up has no firewall set and some AppArmor profiles not installed or enforced | Mar 03 06:38 |
| DaemonFC | bad idea | Mar 03 06:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I think Mac will get hit first | Mar 03 06:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Ubuntu will just get Binked | Mar 03 06:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | *Binged | Mar 03 06:40 |
| DaemonFC | the Mac already has a few botnets going | Mar 03 06:40 |
| DaemonFC | set up by trojans | Mar 03 06:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I have some reservations about sudo, but I don't know, it might be as secure as su, just don't know | Mar 03 06:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MS Works for Mac, trojan, remembered reading about it, yes | Mar 03 06:41 |
| DaemonFC | http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/12/09/2215253/Malware-Found-Hidden-In-Screensaver-On-Gnome-Look | Mar 03 06:41 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot Linux Story | Malware Found Hidden In Screensaver On Gnome-Look .::. Size~: 166.71 KB | Mar 03 06:41 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, It's more secure than using the root account | Mar 03 06:42 |
| DaemonFC | for a number of reasons | Mar 03 06:42 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes, thought so | Mar 03 06:42 |
| DaemonFC | an attacker knows the name of the root account, but won't know your account name | Mar 03 06:42 |
| DaemonFC | sudo logs who used it, when, and why | Mar 03 06:42 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so you saying that sudo is better? | Mar 03 06:43 |
| DaemonFC | sudo can be configured to only allow some of root's abilities | Mar 03 06:43 |
| DaemonFC | yes | Mar 03 06:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ok, I thought the other way | Mar 03 06:43 |
| DaemonFC | no, sudo is almost always better than enabling the root account | Mar 03 06:43 |
| DaemonFC | and you can still enter a root shell without the root account activated | Mar 03 06:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I should try Buntu more, but somehow, just cannot try that which comes with Mono and now Bing | Mar 03 06:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its what I tryed to get away from | Mar 03 06:44 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | MS | Mar 03 06:44 |
| DaemonFC | ryan@ryan-desktop:~$ sudo -i | Mar 03 06:45 |
| DaemonFC | root@ryan-desktop:~# su -l ryan | Mar 03 06:45 |
| DaemonFC | ryan@ryan-desktop:~$ | Mar 03 06:45 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 06:45 |
| DaemonFC | it's kind of a simulated root login with your environment variables left intact | Mar 03 06:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I always go with the default | Mar 03 06:46 |
| DaemonFC | it's better to use sudo -i if you need to become root | Mar 03 06:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | makes one more anon | Mar 03 06:47 |
| DaemonFC | it makes it persistent | Mar 03 06:47 |
| DaemonFC | it's better to stick to sudo and build things with fakeroot | Mar 03 06:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | not sure I want that | Mar 03 06:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I thought you hated Ubuntu | Mar 03 06:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | back awhile back | Mar 03 06:48 |
| DaemonFC | https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo | Mar 03 06:48 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: RootSudo - Community Ubuntu Documentation .::. Size~: 35.57 KB | Mar 03 06:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | myself, I never hated them | Mar 03 06:48 |
| DaemonFC | not everything | Mar 03 06:48 |
| DaemonFC | some things aggravate me | Mar 03 06:48 |
| DaemonFC | some things make a lot of sense | Mar 03 06:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | even linked and tryed to help them on MS Watch | Mar 03 06:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/b87a0/i_read_a_lot_of_threads_about_being_lonely_sad_or/ | Mar 03 06:49 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: I read a lot of threads about being lonely, sad or unhappy in general. : reddit.com .::. Size~: 511.48 KB | Mar 03 06:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ok, that makes sence | Mar 03 06:49 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | about to do a sidux install on another partition 2009-4 | Mar 03 06:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I think is Debian based for me | Mar 03 06:52 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] The best post on Reddit ever http://ur1.ca/o7bn | Mar 03 06:52 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: I read a lot of threads about being lonely, sad or unhappy in general. : reddit.com .::. Size~: 511.48 KB | Mar 03 06:52 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Ok Diablo-D3, we seen your link. you can chat now | Mar 03 06:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | ? | Mar 03 06:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | Chips_B_Malroy: what are you talking about now? | Mar 03 06:57 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Larry Lessig muted by Warner Music Group for supporting #copyright reform http://ur1.ca/o7bw | Mar 03 06:57 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Hulu pulling Daily Show and Colbert Report, Hulu is now doomed http://ur1.ca/o7bx #douchebags | Mar 03 06:57 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot Your Rights Online Story | A Second Lessig Fair-Use Video Is Suppressed By WMG .::. Size~: 152.1 KB | Mar 03 06:57 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Viacom Pulling "The Daily Show" and "The Colbert Report" From Hulu - The daily show on hulu - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 65.39 KB | Mar 03 06:57 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Well, I think I have about outtalked this channel | Mar 03 06:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | not an easy feat either | Mar 03 06:59 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | oiaohm is tuff | Mar 03 07:00 |
| DaemonFC | fuck | Mar 03 07:00 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 07:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | he is | Mar 03 07:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | admitt it | Mar 03 07:00 |
| DaemonFC | Ubuntu slipped in a libvorbis update and bulldozed my AoTuv | Mar 03 07:00 |
| DaemonFC | I encoded 4 CD's with Xiph.org's | Mar 03 07:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | didn't u ask for it? Jono you asked | Mar 03 07:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm minorly trolls periodically | Mar 03 07:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | not as bad as ender though | Mar 03 07:01 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, asked several places | Mar 03 07:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | been acused of that myself | Mar 03 07:01 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so what version of ogg is in Debian itself | Mar 03 07:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | Chips_B_Malroy: who you talking to anyhow? | Mar 03 07:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | both of u | Mar 03 07:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | see, there you go again | Mar 03 07:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | who is this other person | Mar 03 07:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | DaemonFC, who you ban is also here | Mar 03 07:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | most of the channel has DaemonFC on ignore | Mar 03 07:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | seriously | Mar 03 07:03 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | he has got a lot better lately | Mar 03 07:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | or you just got used to it | Mar 03 07:04 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | last 3 months or longer | Mar 03 07:04 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, It's coming... | Mar 03 07:05 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | perhaps, maybe its best to take him off banned and listen for awhile | Mar 03 07:05 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[daemonfc] Show your support for the AoTuv Vorbis encoder to become the default in Ubuntu! Brainstorm. http://bit.ly/dA6v5F Bug. http://bit.ly/bdTsUy | Mar 03 07:05 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Idea #23838: "Ship the vastly improved AoTuv Vorbis encoder in Ubuntu." - Ubuntu brainstorm .::. Size~: 36.89 KB | Mar 03 07:05 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bug #57797 in libvorbis (Ubuntu): “Should include aoTuV Release 1 patch” .::. Size~: 64.82 KB | Mar 03 07:05 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 07:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | uh | Mar 03 07:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | HAHAHAHAHAH | Mar 03 07:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | oh _wow_ | Mar 03 07:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | someone should tell DaemonFC that vorbis upstream already accepted aotuv's patches a very very long time ago | Mar 03 07:06 |
| DaemonFC | here comes another one | Mar 03 07:07 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[daemonfc] Someone should tell Diablo-D3 that the last AoTuv merge was in 2004 and that it's now 2010. | Mar 03 07:07 | |
| Diablo-D3 | someone should tell DaemonFC that if he keeps that up, the bot wont be following his twitter feed anymore | Mar 03 07:07 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | OK, DaemonFC, in Debian Lenny its 1.20 libvorbis, but in Mepis 8.0 a communtity backport of 1.24 | Mar 03 07:07 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, AoTuv is a fork | Mar 03 07:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I have the newer backport 1.24 installed | Mar 03 07:08 |
| DaemonFC | the current Beta 5.7 is a fork off of Xiph.org libvorbis 1.2.1 RC1 | Mar 03 07:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | Chips_B_Malroy: dont quote lenny | Mar 03 07:08 |
| DaemonFC | Xiph.org libvorbis has had no patches to improve quality in 6 years | Mar 03 07:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | debian has 1.2.3 | Mar 03 07:09 |
| DaemonFC | who cares? Quality hasn't changed since 1.1 in September of 2004 | Mar 03 07:09 |
| DaemonFC | you could be using Ubuntu 4.10 still and have the same quality as you get encoding things in Ubuntu 10.04 | Mar 03 07:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so what you are saying is that libvorbis is not going be in Debian the folk I want at all? | Mar 03 07:10 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | 1.24 | Mar 03 07:11 |
| DaemonFC | is there a 1.2.4? | Mar 03 07:12 |
| DaemonFC | I don't care what Xiph ships until it is 1.3.0 | Mar 03 07:12 |
| DaemonFC | Monty has said that AoTuv merge is must have for 1.3.0 | Mar 03 07:12 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I guess I am not up on this, not sure what is the advantage | Mar 03 07:15 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | sorry, it wwas 1.23 when I rechecked it. and not the Xiph.org fork either | Mar 03 07:17 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | so is this strickly Debian? Or are other distros using Xiph? | Mar 03 07:18 |
| DaemonFC | all use Xiph | Mar 03 07:19 |
| DaemonFC | unfortunately | Mar 03 07:19 |
| DaemonFC | Aoyumi has put a lot of time and effort into fine tuning the sound quality | Mar 03 07:20 |
| DaemonFC | but most of that work is not in Xiph's reference encoder | Mar 03 07:20 |
| DaemonFC | you can throw samples that kill Xiph.org Vorbis at AoTuv and get good results | Mar 03 07:21 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I don't know about that, but Cinerra needs work on it yet, for editing of ogv files | Mar 03 07:23 |
| DaemonFC | Xiph.org Vorbis is not all that great | Mar 03 07:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | and I have not found anything else that will edit an ogv file directly | Mar 03 07:24 |
| DaemonFC | thankfully if your distro insists on being stupid, you can use Windows software in Wine to encode your music files | Mar 03 07:24 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 07:24 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I think not | Mar 03 07:24 |
| DaemonFC | I don't do that, I forced Lucid to "downgrade" to some AoTuv packages in a PPA for Karmic | Mar 03 07:25 |
| DaemonFC | I'd rather use the Windows software than use what comes with Ubuntu | Mar 03 07:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Ubuntu is not my choice, but for some its ok | Mar 03 07:25 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I could use it in preferene to windows. | Mar 03 07:26 |
| DaemonFC | The frustration here is "Why do Linux distros make it easier to use Windows software in Wine to get thigns done when the solution is staring them in the face?" | Mar 03 07:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | no problem | Mar 03 07:26 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it would be easier for me to convert to ogg, than ogv | Mar 03 07:27 |
| DaemonFC | the only difference between oga, ogv, and ogg is the extension | Mar 03 07:29 |
| DaemonFC | they're all in an ogg container | Mar 03 07:29 |
| DaemonFC | brb | Mar 03 07:29 |
| *DaemonFC has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Mar 03 07:29 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but you understand the difference | Mar 03 07:30 |
| *DaemonFC (~ryan@c-69-245-224-113.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 07:32 | |
| Chips_B_Malroy | look at that, I outlasted them all! lol, gn | Mar 03 07:32 |
| DaemonFC | new video driver | Mar 03 07:32 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 07:32 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | whoops, I was mistaken | Mar 03 07:33 |
| DaemonFC | had quite a few patches that fixed weirdness and improved performance on my card | Mar 03 07:33 |
| DaemonFC | so I got it | Mar 03 07:33 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | ATI? | Mar 03 07:33 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I have the git versions of X, the ATI driver, and Mesa 7.8 | Mar 03 07:34 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 07:34 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | which card? | Mar 03 07:34 |
| DaemonFC | radeonhd 4670 | Mar 03 07:34 |
| DaemonFC | if you go a few days between updates, there's guaranteed to be a couple dozen patches that went in that should interest you | Mar 03 07:35 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | thats a newer card | Mar 03 07:35 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I am using very old | Mar 03 07:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | argh | Mar 03 07:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | X1650 | Mar 03 07:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | you're still talking to him! | Mar 03 07:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: I still have you on ignore but | Mar 03 07:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: you've wasted your time | Mar 03 07:36 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | its ok Diablo, u can talk to us | Mar 03 07:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | monty is already planning on merging Aoyumi's stuff | Mar 03 07:37 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, Tell him that Monty has said that for YEARS now..... please :) | Mar 03 07:37 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | you run dual monitors on your rig DaemonFC? | Mar 03 07:38 |
| DaemonFC | nope | Mar 03 07:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I do | Mar 03 07:38 |
| DaemonFC | I thought this 24" was massive when I got it | Mar 03 07:38 |
| DaemonFC | I was used to a little 17" CRT | Mar 03 07:38 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | but after kernel 2.6.28 my card not supported for dual monitors | Mar 03 07:39 |
| DaemonFC | and this thing was BIG | Mar 03 07:39 |
| DaemonFC | with the nonfree driver? | Mar 03 07:39 |
| DaemonFC | or with the free one? | Mar 03 07:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | two older 4:3 1600x1200 LCD's | Mar 03 07:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | IBM of course | Mar 03 07:39 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | yes the ATI blob driver | Mar 03 07:40 |
| DaemonFC | try the free driver | Mar 03 07:40 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it works in the newer kernels, but no dual monitor support | Mar 03 07:40 |
| DaemonFC | and use xorg edgers PPA :) | Mar 03 07:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | fglrx | Mar 03 07:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | which is, thankfully, dying out | Mar 03 07:41 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | have to look that up, thanks | Mar 03 07:42 |
| DaemonFC | fglrx is the devil | Mar 03 07:42 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Diablo, you can talk to Daemon | Mar 03 07:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | Id have to take him off ignore. | Mar 03 07:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: this better be worth my time. | Mar 03 07:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well, fglrx did have problems with a lot of wine games etc | Mar 03 07:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, wine has a lot of problems with games. | Mar 03 07:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | Chips_B_Malroy: anyhow, mesaland now can run glsl shaders | Mar 03 07:43 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | that too | Mar 03 07:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | problem is, radeon's shader compiler isn't yet 100% complete | Mar 03 07:44 |
| DaemonFC | Chips_B_Malroy, 1. it still does, 2 RandR support is half there, 3 it's slow even with compositing, 4 it only works on old X servers, and 5 it eats puppies | Mar 03 07:44 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 03 07:44 |
| DaemonFC | I much prefer the git versions of the FOSS driver | Mar 03 07:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | so, although I can run glsl shaders.... I can't yet do so in a way that has them hardware accelerated | Mar 03 07:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | that said, running nexuiz at 320x240 in all software rendering and getting acceptable framerates is wildly amusing | Mar 03 07:44 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Mesa 7.8 supports glsl 1.1 | Mar 03 07:45 |
| DaemonFC | they plan to upgrade their glsl support in 8.0 | Mar 03 07:45 |
| DaemonFC | they're also planning full OpenGL 3.2 for 8.0 | Mar 03 07:45 |
| DaemonFC | that's probably this summer | Mar 03 07:45 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | somehow, I think even my old ATI card is ahead of most of the games written for it. For myself, I mostly do not play lots of games, so do not need another card. But the dual monitor support is nice | Mar 03 07:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | what card? | Mar 03 07:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | old old X1650 | Mar 03 07:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | hah | Mar 03 07:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont think fglrx even supports it anymore | Mar 03 07:46 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | =X1600 | Mar 03 07:46 |
| DaemonFC | the free driver supports everything on cards that old | Mar 03 07:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | up to kernel 2.6.28 it does | Mar 03 07:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, I mean | Mar 03 07:47 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | it does too | Mar 03 07:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | the newest version of fglrx doesnt | Mar 03 07:47 |
| DaemonFC | I think FGLRX dropped R500 and under though | Mar 03 07:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | its an r500, Im pretty sure they dropped support for it | Mar 03 07:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | which means you should be using mesaland stuff anyhow | Mar 03 07:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | I run dual monitors on it on Mepis 8.0 64bit, with ATI fglrx 2.6.27 kernel | Mar 03 07:48 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Debian based | Mar 03 07:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | Chips_B_Malroy: you keep failing to say which fglrx | Mar 03 07:48 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Has Monty committed to a date for libvorbis 1.3.0? Cause he's been saying he'll merge AoTuv into that forever | Mar 03 07:49 |
| DaemonFC | but that's been the last 4 years he's been saying it | Mar 03 07:49 |
| *Diablo-D3 finally took DaemonFC off ignore | Mar 03 07:49 | |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: fuck up, and back on ignore you go | Mar 03 07:49 |
| DaemonFC | mmhm | Mar 03 07:49 |
| DaemonFC | anyway, Linus once said "Talk is cheap, show me the code" | Mar 03 07:50 |
| DaemonFC | that's kind of what Monty reminds me of | Mar 03 07:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | monty talks to Aoyumi regularly | Mar 03 07:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | aoyumi doesnt want it merged quite yet | Mar 03 07:50 |
| DaemonFC | so why is Vorbis from Xiph.org not changed much since 2004? | Mar 03 07:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | actually it has | Mar 03 07:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | but a lot of xiph effort lately has been elsewhere | Mar 03 07:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | theora has been getting a lot of work done, for example | Mar 03 07:51 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, and he's being well paid to do that, I get it | Mar 03 07:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | xiph has very few coders | Mar 03 07:51 |
| DaemonFC | overall I think more people care about Vorbis though | Mar 03 07:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | and vorbis and theora share a lot of them | Mar 03 07:51 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | Diablo-D3> well, I on the laptop right now, so no, I cannot tell you which fglrx driver used | Mar 03 07:51 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Having to maintain my own Vorbis encoder outside of what the distro gives me is a pain | Mar 03 07:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | the new aotuv code will probably be merged into 1.1.x | Mar 03 07:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: actually a lot of distros ship aotuv instead | Mar 03 07:52 |
| DaemonFC | I'd just like to have xiph do 1.3 so I can use their encoder again | Mar 03 07:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | which I dont suggest | Mar 03 07:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | aotuv isnt ready | Mar 03 07:52 |
| DaemonFC | which ones do that? | Mar 03 07:52 |
| DaemonFC | maybe I'll use one | Mar 03 07:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | last time aotuv merged in, monty found a lot of bugs that aoyumi didnt know about | Mar 03 07:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | which, yes, thats a good thing | Mar 03 07:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: it takes about a month to merge aotuv in | Mar 03 07:53 |
| DaemonFC | works great for me, but I'm not going to presume that there's no bugs in there I'm not hitting | Mar 03 07:53 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | h2.64 scares me | Mar 03 07:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: its not like monty isnt going to do it | Mar 03 07:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | its just that aotuv isnt ready to be merged back in, and other things are taking higher priority | Mar 03 07:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | it'll probably be done this year | Mar 03 07:54 |
| DaemonFC | I'd just like a timeframe of some kind so I know when to expect it | Mar 03 07:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | maybe next | Mar 03 07:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: oh, and one of the big vorbis devs is off harassing the IETC on behalf of somebody | Mar 03 07:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | which is apparently a fulltime job | Mar 03 07:54 |
| DaemonFC | over AAC used in HTML 5? | Mar 03 07:55 |
| DaemonFC | there's no way that that should be enshrined in a standard | Mar 03 07:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | well, trying to further standardized non-patent shit | Mar 03 07:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: btw | Mar 03 07:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im not like monty | Mar 03 07:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont mind h264 and aac being acceptably mentioned in html5 as example widely used codecs for <video> | Mar 03 07:56 |
| DaemonFC | there's no such thing as an open standard that not everyone can pick up and use | Mar 03 07:56 |
| DaemonFC | open standard is a frequent lie big companies like using | Mar 03 07:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | browsers should be able to support those | Mar 03 07:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | and by "should", I mean if h264 wants to be continue to be used on next gen platforms, its not going to start charging people | Mar 03 07:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: theora is almost superior to h264 | Mar 03 07:57 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, I have nothing against h.264 aside from the patent license gouging that's sure to come with it | Mar 03 07:57 |
| DaemonFC | quality-wise it's a good codec | Mar 03 07:57 |
| Diablo-D3 | if you look at h264 and limit it to, say, bluray's 4.1 | Mar 03 07:58 |
| DaemonFC | them saying no royalties til 2016 just means "We'll get you addicted and come hit you up in 2016" | Mar 03 07:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | ie, the most common version of it, since hardware accelerators cant accelerate lesser profiles | Mar 03 07:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | (or greater) | Mar 03 07:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | so, you limit h264 to that | Mar 03 07:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | theora, out of the box, beats it | Mar 03 07:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | it may not get quite as high quality per bit | Mar 03 07:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | but its in the same ballpark, and it takes far less to encode and decode it | Mar 03 07:59 |
| DaemonFC | wil lyoutube use theora/vorbis eventually? | Mar 03 07:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | they might | Mar 03 08:00 |
| DaemonFC | just serve up whatever your browser supports? | Mar 03 08:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | theres another big thing about that | Mar 03 08:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | google closed their purchase of On2 last week. | Mar 03 08:00 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well, we need a free internet, and theora is the best bet, without a bunch of patent lawyers hanging around | Mar 03 08:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: you _do_ know who On2, is, right? | Mar 03 08:01 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Mar 03 08:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | this means Google now owns the newest version of the VP family of codecs | Mar 03 08:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | Theora forks from VP3 and vastly improves it | Mar 03 08:01 |
| DaemonFC | watch them release them as FOSS and make Theora obsolete | Mar 03 08:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | not quite | Mar 03 08:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | watch them hand it over to Xiph | Mar 03 08:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | and then Xiph tunes it up and releases Theora 2 | Mar 03 08:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | see, this is the big problem | Mar 03 08:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | They went in opposite directions | Mar 03 08:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | Theora does stuff well VP8 doesnt, and VP8 does stuff well Theora doesnt | Mar 03 08:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | combined, it'd rape everything | Mar 03 08:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: plus, this is all using "old" technologies | Mar 03 08:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | and yes, h264 is old technology | Mar 03 08:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | its still based on the same family of techniques mpeg1 pioneered | Mar 03 08:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | its just vastly improved and tuned | Mar 03 08:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | so if someone ends up making a wavelet encoder that could actually be used | Mar 03 08:05 |
| DaemonFC | the MPEG profiles are just crazy | Mar 03 08:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | all of this would be gone | Mar 03 08:05 |
| DaemonFC | *MPEG-4 | Mar 03 08:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | dirac is awesome, but its not ready. | Mar 03 08:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | it takes entirely too much horsepower to decode, let alone encode | Mar 03 08:06 |
| DaemonFC | Vorbis takes more than MP3 | Mar 03 08:06 |
| DaemonFC | your player's battery goes down quicker | Mar 03 08:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | not really | Mar 03 08:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | also, your comparison sucks | Mar 03 08:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | compare vorbis to aac | Mar 03 08:07 |
| DaemonFC | never used AAC | Mar 03 08:08 |
| DaemonFC | well, beyond playing around with it | Mar 03 08:08 |
| DaemonFC | AAC doesn't seem on par with Vorbis | Mar 03 08:08 |
| Chips_B_Malroy | well gn | Mar 03 08:10 |
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| DaemonFC | I may compile a "libre" kernel and see if it boots | Mar 03 08:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: dont worry, AAC is on par | Mar 03 08:26 |
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| Diablo-D3 | he-aac v2, for example, excels really damned well at low bitrate | Mar 03 08:27 |
| DaemonFC | it seems to me that quality goes something like Vorbis > MPC > HE-AAC > WMA Pro > AAC > MP3 > WMA Standard | Mar 03 08:27 |
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| Diablo-D3 | you listed aac twice. | Mar 03 08:28 |
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| DaemonFC | Yeah, because there's the HE-AAC variant | Mar 03 08:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not a variant | Mar 03 08:28 |
| DaemonFC | I know it's just a profile | Mar 03 08:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | its like h264 profiles | Mar 03 08:28 |
| DaemonFC | but WMA and WMA Pro are two different codecs | Mar 03 08:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, they are | Mar 03 08:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | wma pro iirc doesnt do low bitrate anyhow | Mar 03 08:29 |
| DaemonFC | there's a high bitrate HE-AAC encoder from Coding Technologies | Mar 03 08:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah, and its pointless | Mar 03 08:29 |
| DaemonFC | Nero won't let you use the HE-AAC profile in those bitrates | Mar 03 08:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | SBR and PS buys you very little at high bitrates | Mar 03 08:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | and generally its not a good idea if the encoder is tuned for low bitrates | Mar 03 08:29 |
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| DaemonFC | it specifically says HE-AAC high bitrate | Mar 03 08:30 |
| DaemonFC | and it goes from 128kbps on up | Mar 03 08:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | what Im saying is, he-aac/he-aac2 is not meant for high bitrates | Mar 03 08:30 |
| DaemonFC | I've never seen other encoders that let you use it there | Mar 03 08:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | SBR and PS buy you very little, and may even cause quality loss, at high bitrates | Mar 03 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | marketing ploy? | Mar 03 08:31 |
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| Diablo-D3 | thats the big issue right there | Mar 03 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | you can use it but it doesn't matter much | Mar 03 08:31 |
| DaemonFC | but they act like it does | Mar 03 08:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | it only means something at low bitrates | Mar 03 08:31 |
| Diablo-D3 | it also cant be used on more than 2.0 channels, btw | Mar 03 08:32 |
| DaemonFC | WMA Pro still kicks ass where WMA doesn't because it's an entirely different codec | Mar 03 08:32 |
| DaemonFC | from scratch | Mar 03 08:32 |
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| Diablo-D3 | yes, DaemonFC | Mar 03 08:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | wma pro is a different codec =P | Mar 03 08:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | so is mp3pro (even if it can be decoded by mp3 with severe quality loss) | Mar 03 08:32 |
| DaemonFC | you have to get a Zune to play it I think | Mar 03 08:33 |
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| DaemonFC | MP3 Pro is nonstandard P3 extensions | Mar 03 08:33 |
| DaemonFC | *MP3 | Mar 03 08:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not even nonstandard | Mar 03 08:33 |
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| Diablo-D3 | MP3 doesnt have the ability to be extended | Mar 03 08:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | they basically wrote an entirely new codec that has a stupid gimmic | Mar 03 08:33 |
| DaemonFC | so it's like a correction file that lives in the MP3 file | Mar 03 08:33 |
| DaemonFC | right? | Mar 03 08:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | in a very dumb way, sort of | Mar 03 08:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | it has frames that the mp3 decoder ignores because they're "corrupted" | Mar 03 08:34 |
| DaemonFC | that sounds very ugly | Mar 03 08:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | no one supports mp3pro, btw | Mar 03 08:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean, NO ONE | Mar 03 08:34 |
| DaemonFC | the Winamp plugin for them still works | Mar 03 08:34 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Mar 03 08:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | thomson's plugin | Mar 03 08:35 |
| DaemonFC | MP3HD is going to fail jsut as hard | Mar 03 08:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | notice the very important distinction there | Mar 03 08:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | RCA was making players that did mp3pro for a VERY short time | Mar 03 08:35 |
| DaemonFC | why are they trying this shit? | Mar 03 08:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | but, like, who the fuck buys RCA mp3 players | Mar 03 08:35 |
| DaemonFC | Why would anyone USE this shit? | Mar 03 08:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: no one would | Mar 03 08:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | apple backed aac, so everyone uses it | Mar 03 08:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | unless they just do plain mp3 only | Mar 03 08:36 |
| DaemonFC | MPEG-4 Audio (AAC) is much better than MP3 because MP3 has no concept of profiles | Mar 03 08:36 |
| DaemonFC | it is what it is | Mar 03 08:36 |
| DaemonFC | it wasn't even designed around VBR | Mar 03 08:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | you need to zoom out on this a bit though | Mar 03 08:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | MP3 is an addon spec for mpeg2 | Mar 03 08:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | mpeg2 layer 3 | Mar 03 08:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats what it is | Mar 03 08:37 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, superset | Mar 03 08:37 |
| DaemonFC | actually, MPEG 1 | Mar 03 08:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | er, right | Mar 03 08:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | its mpeg1 | Mar 03 08:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | all it does is add a spec on for audio coding | Mar 03 08:37 |
| DaemonFC | but it's also defined in MPEG 2 for different purposes | Mar 03 08:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | aac quite literally replaced it | Mar 03 08:37 |
| DaemonFC | and FhG even made an unofficial "MPEG 2.5 profile" | Mar 03 08:37 |
| DaemonFC | which makes shit even more confusing | Mar 03 08:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not "better", its the official replacement for mp3 | Mar 03 08:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | official by MPEG themselves | Mar 03 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, official replacement | Mar 03 08:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | its no different then how mpeg4 replaced 2. | Mar 03 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | it's kind of the successor in name only | Mar 03 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | same cartel marketing it | Mar 03 08:38 |
| DaemonFC | it's completely unrelated to MP3 | Mar 03 08:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | mpeg2 part 2 was replaced with mpeg4 part 2 | Mar 03 08:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | its the same shit | Mar 03 08:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only problem here is, mpeg1 has no actually official codec | Mar 03 08:39 |
| DaemonFC | I happen to think Vorbis is better for a few reasons, so I don't care what officially replaces MP3 | Mar 03 08:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | actually Im glossing that over. | Mar 03 08:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | it _does_ have an audio codec | Mar 03 08:40 |
| DaemonFC | something else worked better and I use that | Mar 03 08:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | but no one uses it | Mar 03 08:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | layer 1 is a simplified version of layer 2, and layer 2, aka MP2, is very rarely used | Mar 03 08:41 |
| DaemonFC | MPEG 1 layer 1, 2, and 3 | Mar 03 08:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | yup | Mar 03 08:41 |
| DaemonFC | MP3 is MPEG 1 Layer 3 | Mar 03 08:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | yup. | Mar 03 08:41 |
| DaemonFC | MPEG 1 Layer 1 was never widely used | Mar 03 08:41 |
| DaemonFC | MPEG 1 Layer 2 is still used | Mar 03 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | broadcasters like it | Mar 03 08:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | [03:33:36] <Diablo-D3> layer 1 is a simplified version of layer 2 | Mar 03 08:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | and yeah, it gets a little bit of internal usage when their stuff isn't already AC3 or something else | Mar 03 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, Philips tried to make this stupid mini disc thing | Mar 03 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | it flopped | Mar 03 08:42 |
| DaemonFC | that was the end of layer 1 | Mar 03 08:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | layer 3 was not part of the original mpeg1 spec | Mar 03 08:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | and all it is, is a hacked up version of layer 2 | Mar 03 08:42 |
| Diablo-D3 | where they didnt understand how it worked and tried to shove a broken psychoacoustic model in it | Mar 03 08:43 |
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| Diablo-D3 | and throw in huffman coding too to compress the bitstream | Mar 03 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | There's an encoder for layer 2 called TooLame, it's abandoned, but someone forked it | Mar 03 08:43 |
| DaemonFC | forget who, still maintains it | Mar 03 08:43 |
| Diablo-D3 | twolame | Mar 03 08:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats the fork | Mar 03 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | TooLame | Mar 03 08:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | toolame -> twolame | Mar 03 08:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | I kid you not, the fork is twolame. | Mar 03 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | http://sourceforge.net/projects/toolame/files/ | Mar 03 08:44 |
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| DaemonFC | ohhhh | Mar 03 08:44 |
| DaemonFC | Two is the fork | Mar 03 08:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes | Mar 03 08:44 |
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| DaemonFC | tried it, it does seem much more limited than MP3 | Mar 03 08:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not | Mar 03 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | there's crude VBR support in toolame | Mar 03 08:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | the thing is, its meant for high bitrate usage | Mar 03 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | yes, MPC extended MP2 | Mar 03 08:45 |
| DaemonFC | MPC is quite good at high bitrates | Mar 03 08:46 |
| DaemonFC | like 256k > | Mar 03 08:46 |
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| Diablo-D3 | anything, largely, is quite good at high bitrates | Mar 03 08:46 |
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| DaemonFC | past q6 seems to get you diminishing returns on Vorbis | Mar 03 08:47 |
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| Diablo-D3 | lame -q 0 -b 320 will be, effectively, near lossless | Mar 03 08:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | so throw enough bits at something, it will sound good regardless. | Mar 03 08:48 |
| DaemonFC | meh, thats just --alt-preset-insane | Mar 03 08:48 |
| DaemonFC | gets you 320k CBR | Mar 03 08:48 |
| DaemonFC | --alt-preset-extreme gets you VBR 0 | Mar 03 08:48 |
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| DaemonFC | highest VBR quality | Mar 03 08:49 |
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| Diablo-D3 | yeah, but you're missing the point here | Mar 03 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | --alt-preset-extreme is usually preferable to insane | Mar 03 08:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | mp3 _can_ be made to sound good. | Mar 03 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | freeformat | Mar 03 08:49 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 08:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: ... | Mar 03 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Mar 03 08:50 |
| *Diablo-D3 hits DaemonFC with a bat | Mar 03 08:50 | |
| Diablo-D3 | you're missing the point | Mar 03 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | 640k ftw! | Mar 03 08:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | even mp3 can be made to sound good at high bitrate | Mar 03 08:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | and btw, you mentioned those extensions to mp3 for mpeg2 | Mar 03 08:50 |
| DaemonFC | free format 640k, a bitrate that should be enough for anybody :) | Mar 03 08:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | all they do is add a different set of audio sampling rates, and a new set of bitrates | Mar 03 08:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | it doesnt change it | Mar 03 08:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | most encoders and decoders already supported it | Mar 03 08:51 |
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| Diablo-D3 | anyhow | Mar 03 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: so | Mar 03 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | it can be proved | Mar 03 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | that even the hardest shit | Mar 03 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | the problem with free format is that almost nothing can read the file after you do that | Mar 03 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | can be done in mp3 well | Mar 03 08:51 |
| DaemonFC | cause the ISO spec doesn't require decoders to deal with that | Mar 03 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | but you need a lot of bits to do it | Mar 03 08:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | btw, mp3 players usually dont follow the ISO spec | Mar 03 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | the ISO spec is a very subtly broke version of the actual MP3 sepc | Mar 03 08:52 |
| DaemonFC | well, there's no spec for tags | Mar 03 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | which gets very interesting very fast | Mar 03 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | anyhow, DaemonFC | Mar 03 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | so | Mar 03 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | we have AAC | Mar 03 08:52 |
| DaemonFC | there's no standard for replay gain | Mar 03 08:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | AAC is the official replacement | Mar 03 08:52 |
| DaemonFC | most players support the replaygain format of LAME | Mar 03 08:53 |
| DaemonFC | FhG has their own that nobody uses | Mar 03 08:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | even if mpeg-1 part 3 layer 3 was wedged in using an update to the mpeg-1 spec | Mar 03 08:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | (wee for long names) | Mar 03 08:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | mpeg 2 replaced it | Mar 03 08:54 |
| DaemonFC | Funny that anyone would want to tag their MP3s isn't it? | Mar 03 08:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: btw | Mar 03 08:54 |
| DaemonFC | just couldn't see that coming could they? | Mar 03 08:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | mp3s are technically invalid | Mar 03 08:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | you know why? | Mar 03 08:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | its raw audio data | Mar 03 08:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not meant to be outside of a container | Mar 03 08:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | a .mp3 isnt in an mpg container. | Mar 03 08:54 |
| DaemonFC | you can put them in a container B-) | Mar 03 08:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | and tagging is part of the container's job | Mar 03 08:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | so id3v1/v2 is a very large hack | Mar 03 08:55 |
| DaemonFC | you can put MP3 in an MP4 container | Mar 03 08:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | you're missing the point DaemonFC | Mar 03 08:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | the reason mp3 didnt support tags is because ITS RAW DATA | Mar 03 08:55 |
| DaemonFC | it natively doesn't have one, I know | Mar 03 08:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | mp3 just gets worse and worse and worse | Mar 03 08:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | SO | Mar 03 08:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | mpeg2 comes along | Mar 03 08:55 |
| DaemonFC | id3 tags ftw | Mar 03 08:55 |
| Diablo-D3 | it adds a few things to the mpeg1 audio layer | Mar 03 08:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | official spec support for low bitrates and low sampling rates and more than 2 channels | Mar 03 08:56 |
| Diablo-D3 | most encoders and decoders already supported these | Mar 03 08:57 |
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| Diablo-D3 | since the real MP3 spec supported them | Mar 03 08:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | the version that MPEG-1 got "didnt" | Mar 03 08:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | lolspecs, etc | Mar 03 08:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: so, aac comes into being | Mar 03 08:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | but no one uses it | Mar 03 08:59 |
| DaemonFC | the AAC container is bloated | Mar 03 08:59 |
| Diablo-D3 | it doesnt have one. | Mar 03 09:00 |
| DaemonFC | great way to add 200 K to each file | Mar 03 09:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | it either uses mp4 or it uses a raw feed | Mar 03 09:00 |
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| DaemonFC | so why are AAC files bigger than MP4 files | Mar 03 09:00 |
| DaemonFC | even with the same audio | Mar 03 09:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | dunno. | Mar 03 09:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | might be the aac header | Mar 03 09:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | or you're just smoking crack | Mar 03 09:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | anyhow, DaemonFC | Mar 03 09:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | so the original AAC didnt have PNS | Mar 03 09:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | mpeg4 aac officially adds that | Mar 03 09:01 |
| DaemonFC | adding things after the fact pisses me off | Mar 03 09:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | but since aac is meant to be extended | Mar 03 09:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | a player can play a file "fine" without PNS support | Mar 03 09:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | it just sounds lower quality | Mar 03 09:03 |
| DaemonFC | they should design things around what people will use them for | Mar 03 09:03 |
| DaemonFC | MP3 might have the excuses for what it does | Mar 03 09:03 |
| DaemonFC | AAC doesn't | Mar 03 09:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: they didnt have that technology yet | Mar 03 09:03 |
| DaemonFC | Vorbis is a pretty good format because it lets you do everything you'd likely want to do with it | Mar 03 09:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | theres other addons, btw | Mar 03 09:04 |
| DaemonFC | tags, album art in the file | Mar 03 09:04 |
| DaemonFC | designed around being VBR in nature | Mar 03 09:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | theres SLS | Mar 03 09:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | SLS adds another stream altogether, that the AAC decoder can ignore, that produces lossless audio | Mar 03 09:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | you can strip the stream out using very dumb tools, and have a much smaller normal AAC file | Mar 03 09:05 |
| DaemonFC | I think a standard should be either definied with everything it's ever going to be used for in mind or with room to be extended later without being disruptive or incompatible | Mar 03 09:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | it never took off because people were trying to use it for DRM ware | Mar 03 09:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: thats impossible | Mar 03 09:05 |
| Diablo-D3 | theres always new techniques coming up | Mar 03 09:06 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Mozilla Adds More Nice Features to #Firefox http://ur1.ca/o7n8 http://ur1.ca/o7n9 | Mar 03 09:06 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Elements of Firefox overhaul arrive for testing | Deep Tech - CNET News .::. Size~: 62.94 KB | Mar 03 09:06 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Firefox afterburner for JavaScript - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 32.58 KB | Mar 03 09:06 |
| DaemonFC | when you define a spec, and millions of devices support that spec, don't change the spec | Mar 03 09:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | they didnt | Mar 03 09:06 |
| DaemonFC | you change the spec, you get files floating around that people can't use | Mar 03 09:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | they just built in the ability to have backwards compatibility | Mar 03 09:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: woah | Mar 03 09:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | wtf dude | Mar 03 09:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | did you somehow miss what Ive been saying for the last half hour? | Mar 03 09:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | AAC is _designed_ to be extneded | Mar 03 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | Thomson is still trying to fuck around with MP3 | Mar 03 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | is mainly what I'm referring to | Mar 03 09:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | if you have a player that cant play new AAC data, it _still plays them fine_ | Mar 03 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | they think they can do that | Mar 03 09:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | its just lower quality | Mar 03 09:07 |
| *Aondo has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) | Mar 03 09:07 | |
| Diablo-D3 | and if you dont quite understand what Im saying, if you would have never used those features to begin with, it'd STILL be lower quality! | Mar 03 09:07 |
| DaemonFC | I've had RCA MP3 players before cause I got them for free | Mar 03 09:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | as in | Mar 03 09:08 |
| DaemonFC | which is good because paying for that would be insane | Mar 03 09:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | encode an AAC file at, say 64kbps | Mar 03 09:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | it sounds mediocre | Mar 03 09:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | encode it with HE-AAC v2 at 64kbps, it'll sound much better | Mar 03 09:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | play that HE-AAC v2 file on an AAC-only player, it'll sound like that AAC-only file you encoded first! | Mar 03 09:08 |
| DaemonFC | right | Mar 03 09:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | its not like people are making broken files here | Mar 03 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | but it can be hard to tell if your device supports HE-AAC if the file plays either way | Mar 03 09:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | it wont sound _worse_ | Mar 03 09:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | which is what Im saying | Mar 03 09:09 |
| DaemonFC | portable media players don't document things well | Mar 03 09:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | aac 64kbps vs he-aac v2 64kbps on aac, he-aac wont sound worse | Mar 03 09:09 |
| Diablo-D3 | this is a very important thing | Mar 03 09:10 |
| DaemonFC | right | Mar 03 09:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | the files arent broken | Mar 03 09:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | they arent incompatible | Mar 03 09:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | the player can choose to use the additional data, or it doesnt | Mar 03 09:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: btw, there is other shit out there | Mar 03 09:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | theres ALS | Mar 03 09:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | FLAC-like lossless | Mar 03 09:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | so its not like MPEG didnt make shit for all cases. | Mar 03 09:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | ALS uses the same techniques FLAC does and produces a pretty decent low complexity lossless codec | Mar 03 09:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: its funny how we've spent like an hour talking about this | Mar 03 09:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | but | Mar 03 09:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | lossy compression is kind of dead. | Mar 03 09:13 |
| DaemonFC | FLAC works on more things oddly | Mar 03 09:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | look at blurays | Mar 03 09:13 |
| Diablo-D3 | blurays often ship with a dolby or dts track that is either extremely high bitrate or actually lossless | Mar 03 09:14 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, the disc can hold it | Mar 03 09:14 |
| DaemonFC | why not? | Mar 03 09:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | most pirates who are audiophiles rip shit in flac or some other less popular lossless format | Mar 03 09:15 |
| DaemonFC | WavPack impresses me more | Mar 03 09:15 |
| DaemonFC | but FLAC is better supported | Mar 03 09:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | see thats the thing | Mar 03 09:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | FLAC is very well understood | Mar 03 09:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | it doesnt matter if wavpack beats it | Mar 03 09:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | FLAC performs well enough | Mar 03 09:15 |
| DaemonFC | FLAC level 8 is very close to WavPack file size anyway | Mar 03 09:16 |
| DaemonFC | *shrug* | Mar 03 09:16 |
| DaemonFC | fast CPU should still compress it fast | Mar 03 09:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | flac generally shaves a quarter or half off to begin with | Mar 03 09:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | or, generally, twice as much as a near lossless lossy file | Mar 03 09:17 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, the difference between level 5 and 8 isn't huge | Mar 03 09:17 |
| *Aondo (stian@193.71.154.133) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 09:17 | |
| DaemonFC | instead of a 30 MB track, you might get 29.7 MB | Mar 03 09:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | so theres really no point in continuing lossy stuff except on low bandwidth mediums | Mar 03 09:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | which is why everybody runs back to he-aac v2 comparisons | Mar 03 09:17 |
| DaemonFC | 8 is just very exhaustive in its attempt to compress | Mar 03 09:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | if you're already spending more than 128kbps on audio, just fucking use FLAC already | Mar 03 09:17 |
| DaemonFC | wouldn't go that far | Mar 03 09:18 |
| DaemonFC | if you're going over 256k, you might look into FLAC | Mar 03 09:18 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 09:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | internet bandwidth is the only real restriction | Mar 03 09:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | file size isnt | Mar 03 09:18 |
| DaemonFC | amount of music you can carry on your portable is limited | Mar 03 09:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | not true | Mar 03 09:18 |
| DaemonFC | oh? | Mar 03 09:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | I can easily carry around 32gb or more | Mar 03 09:18 |
| DaemonFC | I've got 20 gigs | Mar 03 09:19 |
| DaemonFC | FLAC overtakes that quickly | Mar 03 09:19 |
| DaemonFC | 18.6 GB after formatting | Mar 03 09:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | well | Mar 03 09:19 |
| DaemonFC | (18.6 gigabytes) / (950 kbps) = 1.90092725 days | Mar 03 09:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | lets say flac does 700kbps | Mar 03 09:20 |
| DaemonFC | that's not awful I guess | Mar 03 09:20 |
| DaemonFC | (18.6 gigabytes) / (192 kbps) = 9.40562963 days | Mar 03 09:20 |
| DaemonFC | so with FLAC I get 1.9 days, and with 192k Vorbis I get 9.4 days | Mar 03 09:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | well even, lets say worse case, 1000kbps | Mar 03 09:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats 25% compression | Mar 03 09:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | all your music causes flac to fail | Mar 03 09:21 |
| DaemonFC | (18.6 gigabytes) / (1000 kbps) = 1.80588089 days | Mar 03 09:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats almost 2 days of fucking music | Mar 03 09:21 |
| DaemonFC | true | Mar 03 09:21 |
| DaemonFC | (18.6 gigabytes) / (1 411.2 kbps) = 1.2796775 days | Mar 03 09:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | you can play the whole thing and not hear the same song for 2 days | Mar 03 09:21 |
| DaemonFC | (WAV files) rofl | Mar 03 09:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | and thats if you listen to it 24/7 | Mar 03 09:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | even in your sleep | Mar 03 09:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | lets say you get in 8 hours of music a day, thats still 6 fucking days of music | Mar 03 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | you're right, lossy compression has its days numbered | Mar 03 09:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | and thats on a pretty generic device | Mar 03 09:22 |
| DaemonFC | lossless gives you a lot of advantages in trade for its massive files | Mar 03 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | like ability to turn them into anything, including a CD :) without quality loss | Mar 03 09:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | dont they make 64gb iphone snow? | Mar 03 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | maybe | Mar 03 09:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | hmm, they dont | Mar 03 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | who knows? | Mar 03 09:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | still, they make 32gb ones | Mar 03 09:23 |
| DaemonFC | ALAC doesn't realyl blow my skirt up :P | Mar 03 09:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | AHH | Mar 03 09:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | they make 64gb iTouches | Mar 03 09:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats where I saw that | Mar 03 09:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | so, lets pretend ipods can play flacs | Mar 03 09:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats 12 days of music! | Mar 03 09:24 |
| DaemonFC | ipods play ALAC | Mar 03 09:24 |
| DaemonFC | that's lossless | Mar 03 09:24 |
| DaemonFC | the decoding functions of ALAC are reverse engineered and open source | Mar 03 09:25 |
| DaemonFC | so it's possible to make FLAC from them | Mar 03 09:25 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Patents to Kill More People, Thanks to Generics Being Excluded http://ur1.ca/o7p0 | Mar 03 09:25 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Intellectual Property Watch » Blog Archive » Tough IP Health Provisions In Europes Colombia/Peru Trade Deal .::. Size~: 47.71 KB | Mar 03 09:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: you're missing the point | Mar 03 09:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | and Im using ipod as an example | Mar 03 09:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | other manufs make ipod killers | Mar 03 09:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | but Im just saying, they ship 64gb players _now_ | Mar 03 09:25 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Facebook and #Google Hurt #FreeSoftware by Supporting Corrupt #Patent System http://ur1.ca/o7p4 http://ur1.ca/o7p5 | Mar 03 09:26 | |
| DaemonFC | ipod, really? | Mar 03 09:26 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Looking at Facebooks news feed patent « TechnoLlama .::. Size~: 94.27 KB | Mar 03 09:26 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Google Secures Broad Patent for Location-Based Advertising .::. Size~: 79.31 KB | Mar 03 09:26 |
| DaemonFC | you didn't _buy_ it? | Mar 03 09:26 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Benjamin Franklin Against #SoftwarePatents http://ur1.ca/o7p6 http://ur1.ca/o7p8 | Mar 03 09:27 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) on Patents and Free Software. | GHABUNTU .::. Size~: 95.47 KB | Mar 03 09:27 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Multimedia Codecs and Moral Quandaries | WorksWithU .::. Size~: 45.81 KB | Mar 03 09:27 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux is the Market Share Champion at the High End http://ur1.ca/o7pf #pc | Mar 03 09:28 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Where do you find the world’s fastest supercomputers? | Royal Pingdom .::. Size~: 44.79 KB | Mar 03 09:28 |
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| DaemonFC | (350 megabytes) / (1.5 MBps) = 3.88888889 minutes | (24 hours) / (3.88888889 minutes) = 370.285714 | Mar 03 09:44 |
| DaemonFC | 365 * 370.285714 = 135 154.286 | Mar 03 09:45 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, There you go | Mar 03 09:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | what am I looking at? | Mar 03 09:46 |
| DaemonFC | I could download about 135,154 FLAC albums in a year assuming I never let up and Comcast didn't throw me off for exceeding my cap | Mar 03 09:46 |
| DaemonFC | and assuming the remote source kept up with my available bandwidth | Mar 03 09:47 |
| *tmtmtm (~4ffe1ff1@gateway/web/freenode/x-wbfwppesefxdkxbz) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 09:48 | |
| Diablo-D3 | thats... | Mar 03 09:48 |
| DaemonFC | (250 gigabytes) / (1.5 MBps) = 1.97530864 days | Mar 03 09:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | more music than is actually worth listening to | Mar 03 09:48 |
| DaemonFC | time before I hit my cap | Mar 03 09:48 |
| DaemonFC | (250 gigabytes) / (350 megabytes) = 731.428571 | Mar 03 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | number of FLAC albums until I hit the cap | Mar 03 09:49 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 03 09:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | but you get the point here | Mar 03 09:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | all this work is being shoved into lossy audio | Mar 03 09:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | its kind of nuts | Mar 03 09:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: like right now | Mar 03 09:50 |
| DaemonFC | oh yeah | Mar 03 09:50 |
| Diablo-D3 | monty is working on a vorbis replacement | Mar 03 09:50 |
| DaemonFC | I can download mroe FLAC albums in 1 day than I'd listen to in that year | Mar 03 09:50 |
| DaemonFC | if bandwidth is all we're talking about | Mar 03 09:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah | Mar 03 09:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | the hard part is | Mar 03 09:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | FINDING | Mar 03 09:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | said albums | Mar 03 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | searching part is the most energy consuming | Mar 03 09:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | very rarely do I add new music to my vast collection | Mar 03 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | most of the time you're searching, not downloading | Mar 03 09:51 |
| DaemonFC | building a queue | Mar 03 09:51 |
| Diablo-D3 | yup | Mar 03 09:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | but yeah | Mar 03 09:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | theres only one major market left | Mar 03 09:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | internet/sat streaming. | Mar 03 09:52 |
| Diablo-D3 | and even then, although monty disagrees with me, internet is kind of over | Mar 03 09:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | virtualally all major internet radio stations have 128kbps or more as their highest quality station | Mar 03 09:53 |
| Diablo-D3 | and offer at least plain aac and/or vorbis, sometimes along with mp3 or other options | Mar 03 09:54 |
| DaemonFC | I wouldn't even take MP3 | Mar 03 09:54 |
| DaemonFC | it's not worth free | Mar 03 09:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | you're missing the point | Mar 03 09:54 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know why so many stores sell it | Mar 03 09:54 |
| Diablo-D3 | internet bandwidth isnt scarce as it used to be | Mar 03 09:54 |
| *oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 09:58 | |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, 7digital is recommending Disturbed.... | Mar 03 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | *facepalms* | Mar 03 10:01 |
| Diablo-D3 | blurgh, what a shitty band | Mar 03 10:01 |
| DaemonFC | if I hear Down With The Sickness one more time I'm going to scream | Mar 03 10:01 |
| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/03/push-on-to-take-microsoft-browser-ballot-on-worldwide-tour.ars | Mar 03 10:01 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft rivals push to send browser ballot on world tour .::. Size~: 26.75 KB | Mar 03 10:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: thats not even their good one | Mar 03 10:02 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Adema? Taproot? | Mar 03 10:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im not sure | Mar 03 10:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | Ive only heard it played, Im not sure the name | Mar 03 10:02 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU Linux a King of #Servers http://boycottnovell.com/2010/03/03/microsoft-funded-numbers-and-lies/ | Mar 03 10:03 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: GNU/Linux a King of Servers, But Microsoft Boosters Disagree | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 81.92 KB | Mar 03 10:03 |
| DaemonFC | They like to play Poem on the radio a lot (Taproot) | Mar 03 10:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | btw, their "good" one is pretty mediocre | Mar 03 10:03 |
| DaemonFC | not their best | Mar 03 10:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | whicever it might be | Mar 03 10:03 |
| DaemonFC | Disturbed? | Mar 03 10:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah | Mar 03 10:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | hmm, I flipped through shit of theirs on youtube | Mar 03 10:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | all of it sounds pretty uninspired | Mar 03 10:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | maybe Im thinking of a different band | Mar 03 10:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | they all sort of blend together | Mar 03 10:04 |
| DaemonFC | the CDs to have are the out of the back of a van ones, from before they get signed | Mar 03 10:07 |
| DaemonFC | make sure it has an autograp | Mar 03 10:07 |
| DaemonFC | *autograph | Mar 03 10:07 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont buy that kind of music | Mar 03 10:08 |
| Diablo-D3 | its kind of... boring | Mar 03 10:08 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes they do their best work before they get signed | Mar 03 10:08 |
| oiaohm | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Android-21-and-Nexus-One-on-Verizon/?kc=rss Interisting numbers | Mar 03 10:09 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Android 2.1 to be available everywhere? - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 63.79 KB | Mar 03 10:09 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Nederland gaat illegale downloaders niet afsluiten: http://tinyurl.com/yjga8ta | Mar 03 10:09 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Nederland gaat illegale downloaders niet afsluiten - Security.NL .::. Size~: 19.99 KB | Mar 03 10:09 |
| DaemonFC | http://bit.ly/bfHlqG | Mar 03 10:10 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Google Translate .::. Size~: 1.14 KB | Mar 03 10:10 |
| Diablo-D3 | ahh | Mar 03 10:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | I was thinking of a different band | Mar 03 10:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | I was thinking of drowning pool - bodies | Mar 03 10:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | which is mediocre | Mar 03 10:11 |
| DaemonFC | Rob Zombie-ish | Mar 03 10:11 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 10:11 |
| Diablo-D3 | a tad | Mar 03 10:12 |
| DaemonFC | I can't stand the kind of metal where you can't understand what they're saying and it's just a bunch of grunting and shit | Mar 03 10:13 |
| oiaohm | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/02/oracle_commit_opensolaris/ | Mar 03 10:13 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Oracle buys into Sun's 'Project Copy Linux' dream • The Register .::. Size~: 26.08 KB | Mar 03 10:13 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, OpenSolaris is not copy Linux | Mar 03 10:14 |
| DaemonFC | it's copy the BSDs if anything | Mar 03 10:14 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: so... most metal | Mar 03 10:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | I actually want to see a genre of instrumental metal | Mar 03 10:17 |
| DaemonFC | a lot of it, the kind with lyrics is being dubbed Nu Metal | Mar 03 10:18 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Mar 03 10:18 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Apocalyptica? | Mar 03 10:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah, basically | Mar 03 10:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | apocalyptica has some really really good shit | Mar 03 10:18 |
| oiaohm | Its not what I called it DaemonFC | Mar 03 10:20 |
| DaemonFC | it's a penis envy thing | Mar 03 10:21 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Apple Sues #Linux Phones Using Software Patents http://ur1.ca/o7x0 @mjasay will probably still defend them *sigh* | Mar 03 10:54 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Apple Sues Linux Phones Using Software Patents | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 87.13 KB | Mar 03 10:54 |
| *tmtmtm has quit (Quit: Page closed) | Mar 03 11:09 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[daemonfc] At Opera, Linux and Mac are now officially job #2. http://tcrn.ch/9fh2qW Thanks a lot.... :P | Mar 03 11:11 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Opera 10.50 Lands On Windows, Mac And Linux Version Coming Soon .::. Size~: 69.31 KB | Mar 03 11:11 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Novell is seeking a buyout? | Mar 03 11:14 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.themoneytimes.com/featured/20100303/elliot-offers-buy-novell-inc-2bn-novell-stock-surge-id-10102261.html | Mar 03 11:14 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Elliot offers to buy Novell Inc. for $2bn; Novell stock surge | The Money Times .::. Size~: 33.47 KB | Mar 03 11:14 |
| oiaohm | Was not seeking DaemonFC | Mar 03 11:14 |
| oiaohm | Buyout came hunting them. ie hostile. | Mar 03 11:14 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Ref Bulger. Twitter mob bays for blood, in their ignorance they feel gloriously indignant. I recommend the Daily Mail for you all. | Mar 03 11:24 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Bull Migrates Desktops to #OpenOffice .org, #Munich Succeeds with Migration as Well http://ur1.ca/o7z3 #odf | Mar 03 11:26 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bull Migrates Desktops to OpenOffice.org, Munich Succeeds With Migration as Well | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 84.63 KB | Mar 03 11:26 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[serk01/@serk01] New ACTA leak shows resistance to US-style DRM http://bit.ly/dlrjpQ | Mar 03 11:27 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: New ACTA leak shows major resistance to US-style DRM rules .::. Size~: 31.72 KB | Mar 03 11:27 |
| *dyfet (~dyfet@pool-71-255-19-224.atclnj.east.verizon.net) has left #boycottnovell ("Ex-Chat") | Mar 03 11:31 | |
| oiaohm | Orcale backing of openoffice will push it forwards. | Mar 03 11:53 |
| oiaohm | Thinking orcale is a solution builder. | Mar 03 11:53 |
| DaemonFC | actually, US law is not near as bad as those ACTA drafts | Mar 03 11:53 |
| oiaohm | But lot of those ACTA drafts are what have been applied to other countries in trade agreements. DaemonFC | Mar 03 11:54 |
| DaemonFC | I have a feeling that it'll get stripped from ACTA and then enacted as new US laws | Mar 03 11:54 |
| DaemonFC | yes, ACTA is born out of the frustration of trying to go and threaten or bribe every government in the world one at a time | Mar 03 11:55 |
| DaemonFC | if they make it an international treaty, they win in one pass | Mar 03 11:55 |
| oiaohm | Problem is indvidual treaties with the usa have already been made. | Mar 03 11:56 |
| oiaohm | So USA hands are basically tied unless they want to break those treaties | Mar 03 11:56 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, The problem with treaties is that they are too easy to enter into | Mar 03 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | it requires Senate approval and the President's signature | Mar 03 12:00 |
| DaemonFC | I think they should have to go to the states, personally | Mar 03 12:01 |
| oiaohm | And very tricky to get out of. | Mar 03 12:01 |
| oiaohm | Here treaties have to pass the parlement floor | Mar 03 12:01 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, Forgive my ignorance, but where does the queen fit into your government | Mar 03 12:02 |
| DaemonFC | other than being the queen of course | Mar 03 12:02 |
| DaemonFC | can she overrule anything she wants? | Mar 03 12:02 |
| DaemonFC | or dictate the law? | Mar 03 12:02 |
| oiaohm | queen has no power over law. | Mar 03 12:02 |
| oiaohm | Queen has one power to dismiss the parlement completely | Mar 03 12:03 |
| DaemonFC | so basically that's all, and then you elect a new one? | Mar 03 12:03 |
| oiaohm | Yep. | Mar 03 12:03 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | Mar 03 12:03 |
| oiaohm | Has only happened once. | Mar 03 12:03 |
| DaemonFC | not many weapons in that arsenal, only a nuke | Mar 03 12:03 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Mar 03 12:03 |
| oiaohm | Queen cannot even declare war. | Mar 03 12:04 |
| oiaohm | She is basically powerless other than the means to dismiss. | Mar 03 12:04 |
| DaemonFC | well, there's a big (ish?) movement in Canada to get rid of the monarchy | Mar 03 12:04 |
| DaemonFC | people are saying the Canadians may just not select an heir or whatever when the queen dies | Mar 03 12:04 |
| DaemonFC | as a way of getting rid of them for good | Mar 03 12:05 |
| oiaohm | Here with how powerless the queen is working out how to get replacement is hard. | Mar 03 12:05 |
| oiaohm | Thinking the queen power is done by the governer general. | Mar 03 12:05 |
| DaemonFC | personally, I wouldn't want a common head of state with several other countries | Mar 03 12:05 |
| oiaohm | So queen cannot even dismiss alone. | Mar 03 12:05 |
| DaemonFC | so I can't blame them | Mar 03 12:06 |
| oiaohm | So our head of state is one of the least powerful anywhere. | Mar 03 12:06 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Mar 03 12:06 |
| DaemonFC | she's one step away from being just a formality | Mar 03 12:06 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Denúncia de fraude contra os interesses da UE https://fns.olaf.europa.eu/cgi-bin/disclaimer_cgi?p=q&lang=pt | Mar 03 12:07 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Mar 03 12:07 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, I wonder how different the US would be had we never overthrown the British | Mar 03 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Lot of the reason why replacement to our monarchy is lot of the anti monarchy wanted to give the head of state more power. | Mar 03 12:07 |
| DaemonFC | several countries had claims here | Mar 03 12:07 |
| DaemonFC | including France and Spain | Mar 03 12:08 |
| oiaohm | Who wants a super powerful head of state. | Mar 03 12:08 |
| DaemonFC | Canada disputed the border for a while | Mar 03 12:08 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, you still have a complete asshole that ends up running a lot of stuff somewhere | Mar 03 12:09 |
| DaemonFC | it happens in every government | Mar 03 12:09 |
| oiaohm | We got howard did we not. | Mar 03 12:09 |
| DaemonFC | yes | Mar 03 12:09 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 12:09 |
| oiaohm | Our trouble starts at prime mister. | Mar 03 12:09 |
| DaemonFC | Bush clone #3 | Mar 03 12:10 |
| oiaohm | Yep head of state is not a problem. | Mar 03 12:10 |
| DaemonFC | head of government is | Mar 03 12:10 |
| oiaohm | At least in our system we have 1 to blame. | Mar 03 12:10 |
| DaemonFC | in the US, the President is both | Mar 03 12:10 |
| DaemonFC | but he can delegate the ceremonial stuff to the Vice President | Mar 03 12:10 |
| oiaohm | ceremonial stuff is all the goverment general job. | Mar 03 12:11 |
| DaemonFC | Dick Cheney was also the Acting President of the US for a few hours on a couple occasions when they were doing surgery on Bush | Mar 03 12:11 |
| DaemonFC | *shivers* | Mar 03 12:11 |
| oiaohm | Also the goverment general also has the job of checking people going into goverments criminal record. | Mar 03 12:11 |
| oiaohm | If they have a record they are not allowed in of course. | Mar 03 12:12 |
| DaemonFC | sounds like it's easier to be a criminal who hasn't done anything all that wrong there | Mar 03 12:12 |
| DaemonFC | Selling a video game is practically a felony :P | Mar 03 12:12 |
| DaemonFC | oiaohm, So since you have no protections on speech an expression, can you be arrested for peaceful protests? | Mar 03 12:13 |
| DaemonFC | or publishing that you think the prime minister is a shithead? | Mar 03 12:13 |
| oiaohm | If you can prove he is a shithead you have nothing to worry about. Basically if it true you have nothing to legally worry about. | Mar 03 12:14 |
| oiaohm | Peaceful protests also don't get you a crimminal record. | Mar 03 12:14 |
| DaemonFC | well, like if I type up that I think government official X is doing a terrible job and that I think that it's his policy on y that brought on problem z..... | Mar 03 12:15 |
| DaemonFC | am I in trouble for stating that those are my opinions? | Mar 03 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Bit that is hard for you usa people to get. Free/fair trade and anti descrimination covers most of what USA people call free speech. | Mar 03 12:16 |
| DaemonFC | an what would happen if you had a teabagger-style protest group out there that was just mindlessly shouting "NAZI!" "SOCIALIST!" "KILL HIM!!!"? | Mar 03 12:17 |
| oiaohm | They would be in trouble. DaemonFC | Mar 03 12:17 |
| oiaohm | You cannot lawfully here threaten harm. | Mar 03 12:17 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Mar 03 12:18 |
| DaemonFC | well, I agree with that much | Mar 03 12:18 |
| oiaohm | Calling them Nazi or Socialist if they are acting that way its legal. | Mar 03 12:18 |
| schestowitz | [10:14] <DaemonFC> oiaohm, OpenSolaris is not copy Linux | Mar 03 12:18 |
| schestowitz | True | Mar 03 12:18 |
| schestowitz | That's just MS booster Clarke smearing it | Mar 03 12:18 |
| schestowitz | As usual | Mar 03 12:18 |
| oiaohm | Now if its just slander you are in trouble. DaemonFC | Mar 03 12:18 |
| schestowitz | [10:13] <phIRCe-BNc> Title: Oracle buys into Sun's 'Project Copy Linux' dream • The Register .::. Size~: 26.08 KB | Mar 03 12:18 |
| DaemonFC | OpenSolaris striked me as more like BSD | Mar 03 12:19 |
| DaemonFC | *strikes | Mar 03 12:19 |
| oiaohm | Basically we have a truthfulness requirement. DaemonFC | Mar 03 12:19 |
| oiaohm | So free speech as long as you are saying the truth. | Mar 03 12:19 |
| DaemonFC | you can sue someone for slander and libel here | Mar 03 12:20 |
| DaemonFC | the government can't arrest them for it though | Mar 03 12:20 |
| oiaohm | Really the indviduals in the goverment here can. | Mar 03 12:20 |
| DaemonFC | if someone started printing lies about me in the paper for example, I could sue the paper and name the writer as co-defendant | Mar 03 12:21 |
| DaemonFC | they would have to prove that what they said about me was more than likely true | Mar 03 12:22 |
| DaemonFC | and my job is to position it as more than likely false | Mar 03 12:22 |
| DaemonFC | also, the reason you see lawsuits here asking for outrageous damages is because the jury can't award more than what was asked for | Mar 03 12:23 |
| DaemonFC | like of I sued you and asked for a million dollars, they might give me $500,000 | Mar 03 12:23 |
| schestowitz | Mac Asay: "@schestowitz No, I'm very consistent on this: I hate using the law as a biz club. Legal recourse is a sign of failure" http://twitter.com/mjasay/statuses/9920078472 | Mar 03 12:23 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Twitter / Matt Asay: @schestowitz No, I'm very ... .::. Size~: 10.19 KB | Mar 03 12:23 |
| DaemonFC | but if I only asked for $100,000 that's what I'd get | Mar 03 12:23 |
| DaemonFC | always ask for many times what you think you can get | Mar 03 12:24 |
| oiaohm | Here it is a bit different. | Mar 03 12:24 |
| oiaohm | If you over claim you most likely will get nothing here. | Mar 03 12:24 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Mar 03 12:25 |
| oiaohm | Remember I said about truthfulness requirement in trade here. | Mar 03 12:25 |
| oiaohm | If you claim what it truly costs you. The judge can award damages multiables of what you claim as damages. | Mar 03 12:26 |
| DaemonFC | the hostile takeover of Novell is a sign that they're not doing well | Mar 03 12:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | novell is going under? | Mar 03 12:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | YES | Mar 03 12:26 |
| DaemonFC | and that someone thinks they can buy them and either gut them or turn them around | Mar 03 12:26 |
| oiaohm | Now if you claim more than what it truly costs in australian courts DaemonFC it classed as lieing to the court. | Mar 03 12:26 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Gordon Gekko is offering to buy Novell ;) | Mar 03 12:27 |
| oiaohm | So lie to court you deserve nothing. DaemonFC | Mar 03 12:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | who? | Mar 03 12:27 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Gekko | Mar 03 12:27 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Gordon Gekko - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 35.68 KB | Mar 03 12:27 |
| DaemonFC | was a reference to "Wall Street" | Mar 03 12:27 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_%281987_film%29 | Mar 03 12:28 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.0 403 Forbidden .::. Size~: 0 KB | Mar 03 12:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | Ive never seen it | Mar 03 12:28 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Gekko, in the movie, likes to buy failing businesses, gut out their assets for himself, rip off the employees, and then shut them down | Mar 03 12:29 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 12:29 |
| DaemonFC | the firm offering to buy Novell reminded me of Gordon Gekko | Mar 03 12:29 |
| DaemonFC | "Greed is good." | Mar 03 12:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | so uh | Mar 03 12:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | basically every large scale investor ever? | Mar 03 12:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | thats a common tactic for businesses that have assets you want | Mar 03 12:30 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, He's supposed to be a Jack Welch type | Mar 03 12:30 |
| schestowitz | Me: " @mjasay maybe you can do a post to chastise them for it? :-)" | Mar 03 12:30 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, there's a lot of Gordon Gekko's out there | Mar 03 12:30 |
| oiaohm | I remember danny devito doing a movie like gordon Gekko | Mar 03 12:33 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Very sad day, Michael Foot has died. | Mar 03 12:40 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Benjamin Franklin Would Have Disliked Patents, Tim Bray Leaves, #Patents Kill, Ridiculous Software Patents Named http://ur1.ca/o84c | Mar 03 12:41 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Installing Debian Lenny on a neighbour's very old laptop (64 MiB), always fun, installing GNU/Linux on a old piece of junk ;-) | Mar 03 12:41 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Patents Roundup: Benjamin Franklin Would Have Disliked Patents, Tim Bray Leaves, Patents Kill, Ridiculous Software Patents Named | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 92.01 KB | Mar 03 12:41 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ml2mst] Oops 64 MiB RAM that is... Ran a "non genuine" version of Win XP Home. | Mar 03 12:42 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[daemonfc] @ml2mst - Clearly you need to spend more than the machine is worth to "Get Genuine". :) | Mar 03 12:46 | |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Nvidia shows off two GPU power saving design, but #AMD is just going to blend GPU/CPU together for better power savings http://ur1.ca/o84p | Mar 03 12:47 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- Optimus Engineering Coolness for GeForce and ION .::. Size~: 121.49 KB | Mar 03 12:47 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Analyst Expects #Microsoft Bid to Buy #Novell http://boycottnovell.com/2010/03/03/richard-williams-on-novl/ | Mar 03 12:50 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[daemonfc] No Gnote for you. Have some Tomboy while you wait. http://bit.ly/9C0rRA #Ubuntu | Mar 03 12:50 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Analyst Expects Microsoft Bid to Buy Novell | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 79.49 KB | Mar 03 12:50 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bug #522372 in gnote (Ubuntu): “gnote crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_text_iter_get_offset()” .::. Size~: 64.61 KB | Mar 03 12:50 |
| oiaohm | http://www.economist.com/science-technology/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15543683 Hmm | Mar 03 12:56 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Printing body parts: Making a bit of me | The Economist .::. Size~: 57.39 KB | Mar 03 12:56 |
| schestowitz | Good luck printing living cells :-) | Mar 03 12:56 |
| schestowitz | Need small printer and very specific matrials | Mar 03 12:57 |
| oiaohm | http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2010/03/dell_mistakenly_charges_100k_for_linux_netbook.html << lol | Mar 03 12:58 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Dell Mistakenly Charges $100k For Linux Netbook .::. Size~: 30.43 KB | Mar 03 12:58 |
| oiaohm | Printing with living cells already has been done. The issue is more strength of final item. schestowitz | Mar 03 12:59 |
| oiaohm | http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/operating-systems/windows/news/index.cfm?newsId=19109 This is getting so sadly wrong it not funny. | Mar 03 13:02 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft warns Windows XP users, 'don't touch the F1 key' - Windows - ComputerworldUK .::. Size~: 84.93 KB | Mar 03 13:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | oiaohm: dude | Mar 03 13:03 |
| Diablo-D3 | its hilarious | Mar 03 13:03 |
| oiaohm | F1 is help | Mar 03 13:04 |
| oiaohm | In a lot of programs. | Mar 03 13:04 |
| oiaohm | Even in KDE | Mar 03 13:04 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, thats the problem | Mar 03 13:05 |
| oiaohm | I guess not correct rendering engine seperation. | Mar 03 13:09 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[eduvid] FOSS jobs in India http://bit.ly/aPJk7t http://bit.ly/b3Vuwn | Mar 03 13:09 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Fwd: FOSS jobs in India part2 - Linux User Group @ IIT Delhi | Google Groups .::. Size~: 57.95 KB | Mar 03 13:09 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Fwd: FOSS jobs in India - Linux User Group @ IIT Delhi | Google Groups .::. Size~: 59.71 KB | Mar 03 13:09 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=reiser4_benchmarks&num=1 | Mar 03 13:11 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: [Phoronix] Finally, Reiser4 Benchmarks Against EXT4 & Btrfs .::. Size~: 19.4 KB | Mar 03 13:11 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] ♺ @webmink: Bogus Copyright Claim Silences Yet Another Larry Lessig YouTube Presentation The finest.. http://bit.ly/bEjyWR | Mar 03 13:22 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: links for 2010-03-03 « Wild Webmink .::. Size~: 31.77 KB | Mar 03 13:22 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] NewsTechnica: BBC Trust happy to leave Mark Thompson twisting in the wind http://newstechnica.com/?p=1787 | Mar 03 13:30 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: BBC Trust happy to leave Mark Thompson twisting in the wind | NewsTechnica .::. Size~: 37.46 KB | Mar 03 13:30 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft Not Only Broke the Law in #Europe , So Browser Ballot Should Become International http://ur1.ca/o88m #crime | Mar 03 13:32 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft Not Only Broke the Law in Europe, So Browser Ballot Should Become International | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 87.61 KB | Mar 03 13:32 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] ♺ @jamie_love: Huffpo: US Trade Rep serves drug companies, publishers and pushes anti-consumer agenda http://bit.ly/bEj8GG #acta #ustr | Mar 03 13:38 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: James Love: US Trade Rep serves drug companies, publishers and pushes anti-consumer agenda .::. Size~: 96.57 KB | Mar 03 13:38 |
| *vermilionnnn (~stephen@cpc3-linl7-0-0-cust201.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 13:40 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] New Blog Post "Ade Bradshaw vs Reading Comprehension" http://bit.ly/aLY6lK @Ade_B :p | Mar 03 13:49 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ade Bradshaw vs Reading Comprehension | popey.com blog .::. Size~: 25.07 KB | Mar 03 13:49 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Steve Jobs: We can sit by and watch competitors steal our patented inventions, or we can do something about it: http://i5.be/ayz | Mar 03 13:56 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Apple Sues Phone Maker HTC Over Patents - Bits Blog - NYTimes.com .::. Size~: 74.22 KB | Mar 03 13:56 |
| DaemonFC | what did Apple invent? | Mar 03 13:58 |
| Diablo-D3 | nothing | Mar 03 13:59 |
| DaemonFC | "Cellphone makers have been playing catchup to the iPhone since it was introduced in June 2007" | Mar 03 14:00 |
| DaemonFC | knee slapper | Mar 03 14:00 |
| DaemonFC | I'd rather not pay $500 for a phone with less features than the one I have :) | Mar 03 14:00 |
| Diablo-D3 | yarly | Mar 03 14:01 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Most of the patents that Apple is using against HTC are software patents: http://i5.be/ayA | Mar 03 14:02 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Apple HTC Suit Gallery - - Gizmodo .::. Size~: 75.34 KB | Mar 03 14:02 |
| oiaohm | Was anyone majorally using a linked app store before iphone | Mar 03 14:02 |
| Diablo-D3 | no, and no one is now! dooooohohohohohoho! | Mar 03 14:03 |
| DaemonFC | who cares? | Mar 03 14:03 |
| DaemonFC | I need an app that farts when I push the button | Mar 03 14:03 |
| DaemonFC | (they have that in the app store) | Mar 03 14:03 |
| MinceR | it's an interesting kind of "catchup" | Mar 03 14:04 |
| DaemonFC | I need an app that turns my phone into a compass (because the ones at the dollar store have an annoying tendency to work all the time) | Mar 03 14:04 |
| MinceR | such as releasing a pda/phone that does more than the hypePhone and costs less, before the first hypePhone was announced | Mar 03 14:04 |
| MinceR | i'd love to play "catchup" that way | Mar 03 14:04 |
| DaemonFC | Apple has invented nothing, they've filed for patent troll style patents | Mar 03 14:05 |
| MinceR | i wonder how many people use fart sounds as their ringtone | Mar 03 14:05 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, They need to make a ringtone that says "Follow the sound of my voice and stab the person holding the phone repeatedly" | Mar 03 14:05 |
| MinceR | lol | Mar 03 14:05 |
| DaemonFC | and make sure you can't change that | Mar 03 14:05 |
| DaemonFC | it would never go past the first ring :) | Mar 03 14:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | just change it to its a small world | Mar 03 14:06 |
| Diablo-D3 | wont get past the second stanza | Mar 03 14:06 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Mar 03 14:06 | |
| MinceR | won't "i'm a bitch of steve jobs" work as well? | Mar 03 14:06 |
| DaemonFC | change it that "I like big butts" song | Mar 03 14:07 |
| MinceR | the visuals say so already | Mar 03 14:07 |
| DaemonFC | http://popup.lala.com/popup/504684646362438958 | Mar 03 14:07 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Lala Song Player - Baby Got Back (Album Version) by Sir Mix-A-Lot .::. Size~: 22.52 KB | Mar 03 14:07 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 03 14:07 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h05ZQ7WHw8Y | Mar 03 14:09 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- The WTF Blanket (Snuggie Parody) .::. Size~: 167.02 KB | Mar 03 14:09 |
| *DaemonFC has one | Mar 03 14:09 | |
| DaemonFC | I got it at Big Lots :P | Mar 03 14:11 |
| DaemonFC | cheap | Mar 03 14:11 |
| schestowitz | > Hi, Roy, | Mar 03 14:11 |
| schestowitz | > | Mar 03 14:11 |
| schestowitz | > I notice that the Halloween Documents are still not back up on the OSI | Mar 03 14:11 |
| schestowitz | > site. | Mar 03 14:11 |
| schestowitz | > | Mar 03 14:11 |
| schestowitz | > http://web.archive.org/web/20060405113918/http://www.opensource.org/halloween/ | Mar 03 14:11 |
| schestowitz | > | Mar 03 14:11 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Open Source Initiative OSI - Halloween Documents .::. Size~: 5.1 KB | Mar 03 14:11 |
| schestowitz | > Five years... | Mar 03 14:11 |
| schestowitz | Just moved. I doubt there's anything nefarious here. | Mar 03 14:11 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI99t9k4aEE | Mar 03 14:14 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- THE MAGICAL IPAD (Parody) .::. Size~: 171 KB | Mar 03 14:14 |
| MinceR | they've been missing from there for a long time | Mar 03 14:14 |
| MinceR | so it's definitely suspicious | Mar 03 14:14 |
| DaemonFC | "ipad has half the functionality of a netbook at twice the price" | Mar 03 14:15 |
| DaemonFC | true | Mar 03 14:15 |
| DaemonFC | "tampon joke is too easy" | Mar 03 14:15 |
| DaemonFC | also true | Mar 03 14:16 |
| DaemonFC | "big old ipod touch" | Mar 03 14:16 |
| DaemonFC | true | Mar 03 14:16 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoGFDoylV5Q&feature=channel | Mar 03 14:17 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- A Frat Boy Reviews "Avatar" .::. Size~: 152.56 KB | Mar 03 14:17 |
| DaemonFC | this guy is good | Mar 03 14:17 |
| schestowitz | http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9164338/Topeka_renames_itself_..._Google_Kansas_ Topeka renames itself ... Google, Kansas? | Mar 03 14:21 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Topeka renames itself ... Google, Kansas? .::. Size~: 118.79 KB | Mar 03 14:21 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[satipera] Michael Foot, shows the level of political debate has never been high in media, they are still on about "donkey jacket" on the day he died | Mar 03 14:21 | |
| *BNtwitter has quit (*.net *.split) | Mar 03 14:39 | |
| DaemonFC | "IC 7.1-5-10-14 Sales to Habitual Drunkards Prohibited. It is unlawful for a permittee to sell, barter, exchange, give, provide, or furnish an alcoholic beverage to a person whom he knows to be a habitual drunkard." | Mar 03 14:41 |
| DaemonFC | lol, well, the people at the bars my mom's ex husband goes to are committing a crime | Mar 03 14:41 |
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| DaemonFC | hmmm, it's a class C misdemeanor for a minor to buy liquor, but stores also have the option of requiring customers to sign a form stating that they're 21 or older, and it's another C misdemeanor if the minor signs that form | Mar 03 14:44 |
| DaemonFC | the possession of the fake ID is another C misdemeanor | Mar 03 14:45 |
| DaemonFC | and another C misdemeanor to posses the liquor | Mar 03 14:46 |
| DaemonFC | so if a minor tries to buy alcohol with a fake ID, they're looking at 1 year | Mar 03 14:47 |
| DaemonFC | and 4 misdemeanor criminal charges | Mar 03 14:47 |
| *DaemonFC wonders why he's so bored that he's reading random parts of the Indiana criminal code | Mar 03 14:48 | |
| MinceR | so minors buying ethanol is almost as bad as copyright infringement? :> | Mar 03 14:48 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, Well, if I bought alcohol for a minor, I would commit a D Felony | Mar 03 14:49 |
| DaemonFC | and risk 5 years in prison :D | Mar 03 14:49 |
| DaemonFC | but Indiana suspends half of whatever you get sentenced to automatically in most cases | Mar 03 14:49 |
| DaemonFC | prison over crowding ftw | Mar 03 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | I got a 180 day suspended sentence for something I did as a minor | Mar 03 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | that's void now obviously | Mar 03 14:50 |
| DaemonFC | I won't comment other than that it was funny then and it's funnier than hell to think about now | Mar 03 14:51 |
| MinceR | Sir Alexander Dane: Could they be the miners? | Mar 03 14:52 |
| MinceR | Fred Kwan: Sure, they're like three years old. | Mar 03 14:52 |
| MinceR | Sir Alexander Dane: MINERS, not MINORS. | Mar 03 14:52 |
| MinceR | Fred Kwan: You lost me. | Mar 03 14:52 |
| DaemonFC | I got this really wicked child probation officer who thought she was going to be wicked and evil and torture me for two years cause I was broke and couldn't pay the fees to get off probation | Mar 03 14:52 |
| DaemonFC | so I showed up the day before it was scheduled to end (6 months) and paid it on her day off | Mar 03 14:53 |
| DaemonFC | and it expired before she came back to the office the following day to renew my probation | Mar 03 14:53 |
| DaemonFC | I didn't want to give her the chance to object | Mar 03 14:54 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, I learned early that if someone is underestimating and thinking very little of you, let them | Mar 03 14:55 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Today I am mapping a minefield by iterative tapdancing. *BOOM* "I'll just add that to the wiki, shall I." | Mar 03 14:55 | |
| DaemonFC | bust into a Weight Watchers meeting and tell them there's hot fudge brownies on the other side of the field | Mar 03 14:57 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 03 14:57 |
| MinceR | :D | Mar 03 14:59 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/indiana | Mar 03 15:00 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Dumb Laws in Indiana. Crazy Indiana Laws. We have weird laws, strange laws, and just plain crazy laws! .::. Size~: 15.16 KB | Mar 03 15:00 |
| DaemonFC | "The value of Pi is 3." | Mar 03 15:01 |
| DaemonFC | that was repealed | Mar 03 15:01 |
| DaemonFC | the religious and sexual ones are unenforceable | Mar 03 15:01 |
| MinceR | int pi = 3.141592654; | Mar 03 15:01 |
| MinceR | printf( "%d\n", pi ); | Mar 03 15:02 |
| MinceR | ;) | Mar 03 15:02 |
| *trmanco (~40e547be@gateway/web/freenode/x-zynchihazkajoeyv) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 15:02 | |
| DaemonFC | "You can get out of paying for a dependent’s medical care by praying for him/her." | Mar 03 15:03 |
| DaemonFC | "(c) It is a defense that the accused person, in the legitimate practice of his religious belief, provided treatment by spiritual means through prayer, in lieu of medical care, to his dependent child." | Mar 03 15:03 |
| DaemonFC | dangerous | Mar 03 15:03 |
| DaemonFC | http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/boy-directs-air-traffic-jfk-airport-caught-tape/story?id=9995927 | Mar 03 15:17 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: JFK Airport: Boy Directs Air Traffic Control, Caught on Tape - ABC News .::. Size~: 55.54 KB | Mar 03 15:17 |
| DaemonFC | BAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! | Mar 03 15:17 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Microsoft ’s Government Insider Wants Mac Users and #GNU #Linux Users to Pay Microsoft for Its Incompetence http://ur1.ca/o8jv | Mar 03 15:18 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Remember what happened to the last country which got a billion dollar #us embassy. http://bit.ly/aSop1Q #uk #london #waste #paranoia | Mar 03 15:18 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsofts Government Insider Wants Mac Users and GNU/Linux Users to Pay Microsoft for Its Incompetence | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 90.26 KB | Mar 03 15:18 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Two Jury Members Opposed Pick for U.S... - Google News .::. Size~: 58.43 KB | Mar 03 15:18 |
| schestowitz | http://blog.hydrasystemsllc.com/2010/02/28/my-frustration-with-internet-explorer/ | Mar 03 15:19 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/blog » My frustration with Internet Explorer. .::. Size~: 20.28 KB | Mar 03 15:19 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/03/AR2010030300654.html | Mar 03 15:20 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Same-sex couples line up as D.C. gay marriage law takes effect - washingtonpost.com .::. Size~: 111.98 KB | Mar 03 15:20 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/02/24/2010-02-24_new_1b_us_embassy_in_london_will_feature_a_moat_to_prevent_terrorist_attacks.html | Mar 03 15:22 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: New $1B U.S. embassy in London will feature a moat to prevent terrorist attacks .::. Size~: 46.29 KB | Mar 03 15:22 |
| DaemonFC | nice | Mar 03 15:22 |
| *gargoyle-grin (~randerson@gentoo/contributor/gargoyle-grin) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 15:23 | |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, a moat really stops terrorists? | Mar 03 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | What is this? The 16th century? | Mar 03 15:24 |
| MinceR | it does, until it's paid for | Mar 03 15:24 |
| MinceR | then it suddenly doesn't | Mar 03 15:24 |
| MinceR | and you need a bigger moat or something, etc. | Mar 03 15:24 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: no, but it looks neat | Mar 03 15:24 |
| DaemonFC | They should ask Douglas Hogg who he recommends for moat cleanings | Mar 03 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 15:25 |
| DaemonFC | bbiab | Mar 03 15:25 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: the terror~1 could just go to home of embassy employees | Mar 03 15:25 |
| schestowitz | This is silly | Mar 03 15:25 |
| schestowitz | The embassy does nothing more than represent something | Mar 03 15:25 |
| schestowitz | It's not as tough it's the only place where USians live in a bunker inside the UK | Mar 03 15:26 |
| schestowitz | The BN server is under too much load (LAG!!) without the proxy | Mar 03 15:29 |
| schestowitz | I guess it grew in readership to the point where it can't serve without making static page | Mar 03 15:30 |
| schestowitz | *pages | Mar 03 15:30 |
| schestowitz | Or serve slowly | Mar 03 15:30 |
| trmanco | hey | Mar 03 15:37 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Looks more like decadent modern art nightmare to me | Mar 03 15:44 |
| DaemonFC | and damned expensive | Mar 03 15:44 |
| DaemonFC | a billion dollars? Are there sharks with "fricken laser beams" in that moat? | Mar 03 15:45 |
| DaemonFC | what are we buying exactly? | Mar 03 15:46 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] RT @directhex In absence of new car, I occupy myself with other things. Behold Ubuntu One Music Store in Mono: http://bit.ly/aNN5xO | Mar 03 15:46 | |
| *jono (~jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 15:46 | |
| DaemonFC | sharks with Ubuntu-powered laser beams | Mar 03 15:47 |
| DaemonFC | jono showed them how to interface everything in Python | Mar 03 15:47 |
| jono | sharks with python | Mar 03 15:47 |
| jono | yes! | Mar 03 15:47 |
| schestowitz | Hey, trmanco | Mar 03 15:47 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] The stupid banking software (Natwest) locked me out of my account temporarily for using #Konqueror with #Firefox browser strings. | Mar 03 15:48 | |
| DaemonFC | jono, We're talking about the $1 billion US embassy in London that's planned | Mar 03 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | and the moat | Mar 03 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | and the laser beam sharks that stop terrorists | Mar 03 15:48 |
| DaemonFC | that last bit is speculative | Mar 03 15:49 |
| jono | haha | Mar 03 15:49 |
| jono | "a bit" :-) | Mar 03 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | jono, I figured $1 billion has to buy something | Mar 03 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | even in this economy | Mar 03 15:49 |
| DaemonFC | they're saying the moat is an anti-terrorist measure | Mar 03 15:50 |
| DaemonFC | I guess terrorists can't swim or wade across it | Mar 03 15:50 |
| schestowitz | What for? | Mar 03 15:50 |
| schestowitz | What's inside? | Mar 03 15:50 |
| schestowitz | Mecca? | Mar 03 15:50 |
| trmanco | hey schestowitz | Mar 03 15:50 |
| schestowitz | Just US citizens? | Mar 03 15:51 |
| trmanco | I'm using chrome now | Mar 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | Money? | Mar 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | Gold plates? | Mar 03 15:51 |
| trmanco | the extensions are great | Mar 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: I use Konqueror and ThunderBrowse | Mar 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | Firfox share might decline | Mar 03 15:51 |
| schestowitz | Tough market | Mar 03 15:51 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, I can understand killing for money, gold bars, etc. | Mar 03 15:51 |
| DaemonFC | I can't imagine killing over a deity | Mar 03 15:51 |
| DaemonFC | that's just inexplicable | Mar 03 15:52 |
| schestowitz | So when people take picture next to a nice channel of water they'll be arrested for assisting terror~1 by publishing photography to assist planning ;-) | Mar 03 15:52 |
| DaemonFC | I could never be a religious terrorist, I could be a mercenary | Mar 03 15:52 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 03 15:52 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: the deity is maybe an excuse | Mar 03 15:52 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I know you could | Mar 03 15:53 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, There'd have to be a lot of money in it for me | Mar 03 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | at least I demand tangible things for myself | Mar 03 15:54 |
| DaemonFC | that's more than most people would kill for | Mar 03 15:54 |
| *chm_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | Mar 03 15:55 | |
| DaemonFC | some people would kill cause they're crazy | Mar 03 15:55 |
| DaemonFC | some people would kill because you made them mad | Mar 03 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | some people would kill because "god" told them to | Mar 03 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | and some people kill for money | Mar 03 15:56 |
| DaemonFC | out of all that, I could only understand doing it for money or for revenge over severe grievances | Mar 03 15:57 |
| DaemonFC | I just can't imagine getting myself killed or thrown in prison without something making that risk pretty much worth it | Mar 03 15:58 |
| trmanco | https://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index.php/2010/03/03/mozilla-developer-preview-now-available-with-out-of-process-plugins/ | Mar 03 15:58 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Mozilla Developer News » Blog Archive » Mozilla Developer Preview Now Available With Out-of-Process Plugins .::. Size~: 23.73 KB | Mar 03 15:58 |
| DaemonFC | I can't process the thinking pattern behind the other kinds of killers | Mar 03 15:58 |
| schestowitz | http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2010/03/is-open-source-software-more-s.html | Mar 03 15:59 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Is Open Source Software More Secure? - InternetNews:The Blog - Sean Michael Kerner .::. Size~: 107.97 KB | Mar 03 15:59 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, I don't know why people aren't biased against straight white christian men, that's what Timothy McVeigh was | Mar 03 16:01 |
| schestowitz | http://stop.zona-m.net/node/106 | Mar 03 16:03 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Junior High students in Monza build their own Ubuntu computers | Stop! .::. Size~: 14.55 KB | Mar 03 16:03 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: and that dude who crashed a plane into IRS building the other week | Mar 03 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | The FBI has to infiltrate all kins of those straight white Christian terrorist groups | Mar 03 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | all over the USA | Mar 03 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 16:03 |
| DaemonFC | yep | Mar 03 16:04 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: http://richarddawkins.net/articles/107 | Mar 03 16:04 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: 'Root of All Evil? Part 1: The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins - Channel 4 - RichardDawkins.net .::. Size~: 44 KB | Mar 03 16:04 |
| schestowitz | In the programme he speaks to a friend a x-ian who murdered a doctor from an abortion clinic | Mar 03 16:05 |
| schestowitz | He got executed | Mar 03 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | When is that last time you saw a gay man strap a bomb onto himself? Yet Americans trust gay men even less than they do Muslims. | Mar 03 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | Isn't that something? | Mar 03 16:05 |
| DaemonFC | people just defy explanation | Mar 03 16:06 |
| schestowitz | Desktop Linux vs. Windows 7 < http://www.fewt.com/2010/02/desktop-linux-vs-windows-7.html >. Biased? | Mar 03 16:07 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: fewt@blog:~$ _: Desktop Linux vs. Windows 7 .::. Size~: 170.37 KB | Mar 03 16:07 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: except the guy from Munster who ate his boyfriend | Mar 03 16:07 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, There may have been other factors at play in that. | Mar 03 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 16:08 |
| schestowitz | http://www.enterprisemobiletoday.com/news/article.php/3867571/Rubenstein-Admits-Newest-Palm-Handhelds-Not-Paying-Off.htm | Mar 03 16:08 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: it was consensual too | Mar 03 16:08 |
| schestowitz | But it's a different debate altogether | Mar 03 16:08 |
| DaemonFC | hmmmm, that's something you don't see everyday | Mar 03 16:09 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: http://thetechjournal.com/internet/firefox-4-updates-roadmaps-and-changes-so-far.xhtml | Mar 03 16:09 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Firefox 4 Updates, Roadmaps And Changes So Far | TheTechJournal.com -:- Technological News Portal .::. Size~: 104.3 KB | Mar 03 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | "Desktop Linux distributions could improve the installation process significantly from studying a Windows 7 installation." WTF | Mar 03 16:09 |
| DaemonFC | Did he actually INSTALL a Linux LiveCD? | Mar 03 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | couldn't be easier | Mar 03 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | what you see is what you get, the only part that you may consider is how to partition | Mar 03 16:10 |
| DaemonFC | what could be easier? | Mar 03 16:10 |
| schestowitz | Yeah, Microsoft has a good installer | Mar 03 16:11 |
| schestowitz | It's called "OEM' | Mar 03 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | shhhh, don't let Jono know I use XFS extensively, they'll delete the module just to fuck with me :P | Mar 03 16:11 |
| DaemonFC | :D | Mar 03 16:11 |
| schestowitz | http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/linux-fund-brings-spend-and-support-model-uk | Mar 03 16:12 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Linux Fund Brings Spend-and-Support Model to the UK | Linux Journal .::. Size~: 34.4 KB | Mar 03 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | btw jono Thank your overlords for me for the superb and first rate XFS support | Mar 03 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | and I mean that :) | Mar 03 16:12 |
| jono | DaemonFC, :) | Mar 03 16:12 |
| DaemonFC | my hard drives thank you too | Mar 03 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | I want to get my hands on an SSD | Mar 03 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | slap an XFS partition on one of those puppies | Mar 03 16:13 |
| DaemonFC | I suspect it would be freaking fast | Mar 03 16:13 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: that Vista 7 article 'pulled a Byfield', methinks http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3867956/KDE-and-GNOME-Seven-Irritations-in-Each.htm | Mar 03 16:14 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: KDE and GNOME: Seven Irritations in Each — Datamation.com .::. Size~: 66.67 KB | Mar 03 16:14 |
| DaemonFC | meh, people hate KDE, other people hate GNOME | Mar 03 16:14 |
| DaemonFC | that's why there's options | Mar 03 16:14 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 16:14 |
| DaemonFC | I use what I like | Mar 03 16:14 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: but you only play Songbird | Mar 03 16:14 |
| schestowitz | it doesn't do much i/o | Mar 03 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | Songbird has gotten quite good | Mar 03 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | that's not all I do | Mar 03 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | a little overhead here and a little there add up | Mar 03 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | also, Ext3/4 waste lots of disk space | Mar 03 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | XFS does not | Mar 03 16:15 |
| DaemonFC | XFS also does not reserve 10% of the root partition | Mar 03 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | XFS has a defrag utility for if things get really hairy, so it avoids some of the crippling that was done to Ext3/4 | Mar 03 16:16 |
| DaemonFC | XFS is pretty superior on many use cases | Mar 03 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | not all, but a lot | Mar 03 16:17 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, SongBird can do a lot of i/o actually | Mar 03 16:18 |
| DaemonFC | as can most apps that have to maintain a current database | Mar 03 16:19 |
| DaemonFC | if I add 1,000 files, it can thrash the disk updating the database | Mar 03 16:19 |
| DaemonFC | XFS minimizes this | Mar 03 16:19 |
| DaemonFC | anything that's faster and more efficient has my vote | Mar 03 16:20 |
| schestowitz | http://fsfe.org/news/2010/news-20100302-01.en.html | Mar 03 16:23 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Document Freedom Day 2010 - Free your documents, save your information! .::. Size~: 6.1 KB | Mar 03 16:23 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: most of the time you just play an open file stream | Mar 03 16:24 |
| schestowitz | You can preload the whole block and play it off RAM | Mar 03 16:24 |
| DaemonFC | true, but the occasional thrashing is still annoying when it happens | Mar 03 16:24 |
| schestowitz | But I never wrote proper multimedia applications (audio/video), so I don't know if it's done off RAM | Mar 03 16:25 |
| schestowitz | Disk activity is high when you run something like du -sh a lot | Mar 03 16:25 |
| schestowitz | http://www.computerworlduk.com/technology/operating-systems/windows/news/index.cfm?newsId=19109 | Mar 03 16:27 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Microsoft warns Windows XP users, 'don't touch the F1 key' - Windows - ComputerworldUK .::. Size~: 85.53 KB | Mar 03 16:27 |
| schestowitz | Quality | Mar 03 16:27 |
| schestowitz | Buy your 'commercial' software today | Mar 03 16:28 |
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| *jono (~jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 16:36 | |
| DaemonFC | jono, 7digital does have some hard to find and out of print stuff | Mar 03 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | but I already have the import CD or the vinyl record :) | Mar 03 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | most of the time | Mar 03 16:38 |
| DaemonFC | those SA-CDs are real big in Japan | Mar 03 16:39 |
| DaemonFC | they make a CD's specs look like an MP3 | Mar 03 16:39 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Mar 03 16:39 |
| DaemonFC | they have a lot of DRM and crap, but you can just plug the 3.5mm jack into your sound card's audio in | Mar 03 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | record from that | Mar 03 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | the FLACs from those things are absolutely massive | Mar 03 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | talking 60-ish megs per track or more | Mar 03 16:40 |
| DaemonFC | twice the sample rate of a CD | Mar 03 16:41 |
| DaemonFC | they're nice to have, I wish they sold them here | Mar 03 16:42 |
| jono | DaemonFC, yeah, it has some great content :) | Mar 03 16:42 |
| jono | I am planning on buying a load of stuff :) | Mar 03 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | well, of course YOU would say that | Mar 03 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Mar 03 16:42 |
| DaemonFC | jono, Does Ubuntu One give you a recommended list based on your local library? | Mar 03 16:45 |
| DaemonFC | Songbird does this | Mar 03 16:45 |
| jono | DaemonFC, yeah, I would say that, I am clearly a sockpuppet, right? | Mar 03 16:46 |
| *jono slaps DaemonFC :) | Mar 03 16:46 | |
| DaemonFC | oh, clearly | Mar 03 16:46 |
| jono | not sure it does | Mar 03 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | Mar 03 16:46 |
| jono | :) | Mar 03 16:46 |
| DaemonFC | jono, It looks like in many cases they actually undercut Amazon and Lala and I was only looking at newer music where they can be more expensive | Mar 03 16:47 |
| DaemonFC | if it's more than 4-5 years old, 7digital may have it at 77 cents a track | Mar 03 16:47 |
| DaemonFC | where Amazon still has it for 99 cents a track | Mar 03 16:47 |
| DaemonFC | and Lala is 89 cents | Mar 03 16:47 |
| DaemonFC | this can obviously add up | Mar 03 16:47 |
| jono | cool :) | Mar 03 16:49 |
| DaemonFC | you buy 10 albums, the difference might be $15-$20 | Mar 03 16:49 |
| jono | absolutely | Mar 03 16:49 |
| jono | 7digital seem to do a wicked job | Mar 03 16:49 |
| jono | we asked them to do ogg, but they couldnt, but other than that, they seem cool | Mar 03 16:49 |
| DaemonFC | is that a problem on their end, like infrastructure? | Mar 03 16:50 |
| DaemonFC | or are the labels not going to have it? | Mar 03 16:50 |
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| vermilionnnn | flac is based on vorbis, and is lossless, so it would be easy enough for the end user to convert? | Mar 03 16:51 |
| vermilionnnn | or even add in an option to convert to .ogg into the music store, which would convert once the download was finished? | Mar 03 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | vermilionnnn, FLAC is not based on Vorbis | Mar 03 16:51 |
| DaemonFC | totally different codec | Mar 03 16:51 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Excited. :D | Mar 03 16:51 | |
| DaemonFC | vermilionnnn, I think 7digital only has the MP3 | Mar 03 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | cause that's what the record labels gave them | Mar 03 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | you can't turn an MP3 into a lossless file, and transcoding it to Ogg just does more damage | Mar 03 16:52 |
| vermilionnnn | sorry, its being developed by xiph.org, my bad | Mar 03 16:52 |
| DaemonFC | vermilionnnn, If you want to buy the song, either accept that it's MP3 or don't buy it | Mar 03 16:53 |
| DaemonFC | vermilionnnn, It's not developed by them | Mar 03 16:53 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Win32 Compatibility in #GNU #Linux Improves Further http://ur1.ca/o8ww http://ur1.ca/o8wx | Mar 03 16:53 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: CrossOver 9.0 Improves Windows Application Support on Linux - Starry Hope .::. Size~: 32.27 KB | Mar 03 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | it wasn't even made by them | Mar 03 16:54 |
| vermilionnnn | i know. I'm certain I heard somewhere that 7digital offered FLAC music. But it may just be me going crazy | Mar 03 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | 7digital appears to offer a mix of MP3, WMA, and AAC | Mar 03 16:54 |
| vermilionnnn | DaemonFC: wikipedia says different? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Lossless_Audio_Codec | Mar 03 16:54 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Free Lossless Audio Codec - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 127.2 KB | Mar 03 16:54 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #Kernel Space Benchmarks of #Linux Firesystems http://ur1.ca/o8x2 http://ur1.ca/o8x3 | Mar 03 16:54 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: [Phoronix] Finally, Reiser4 Benchmarks Against EXT4 & Btrfs .::. Size~: 19.36 KB | Mar 03 16:54 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: The kernel column | Linux User .::. Size~: 29.79 KB | Mar 03 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | vermilionnnn, It's endorsed by Xiph and it fits the Ogg container | Mar 03 16:54 |
| DaemonFC | so yes technically it's part of their project | Mar 03 16:55 |
| DaemonFC | but they don't actually control development of it | Mar 03 16:55 |
| vermilionnnn | DaemonFC: http://www.7digital.com/cms/radiohead/in-rainbows.aspx this album is offered in FLAC | Mar 03 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | the only difference between FLAC and Ogg FLAC is that OGG adds about 200 K to each file and you can stream it | Mar 03 16:56 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: 7digital - Radiohead In Rainbows - In FLAC - In MP3 320k .::. Size~: 26.56 KB | Mar 03 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | vermilionnnn, That's different | Mar 03 16:56 |
| DaemonFC | Radiohead released that themselves | Mar 03 16:56 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Foundation Teaches the Public About #GNU Linux, Linux 2.6.34 Shaping up http://ur1.ca/o8x7 http://ur1.ca/o8x8 | Mar 03 16:56 | |
| DaemonFC | it was free for a while | Mar 03 16:56 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Linux Foundation Launches Free Webinar Series With Big Names .::. Size~: 25.99 KB | Mar 03 16:56 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: [Phoronix] Major Linux 2.6.34 Kernel GPU DRM Updates .::. Size~: 16.87 KB | Mar 03 16:56 |
| vermilionnnn | DaemonFC: http://www.7digital.com/artists/enya/and-winter-came-1/ | Mar 03 16:57 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Enya - And Winter Came MP3 Downloads - 7digital .::. Size~: 113.12 KB | Mar 03 16:57 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | Mar 03 16:57 |
| vermilionnnn | DaemonFC: http://www.7digital.com/artists/oasis/dig-out-your-soul/05-Im-Outta-Time/ | Mar 03 16:57 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Oasis - Dig Out Your Soul - I'm Outta Time MP3 Downloads - 7digital .::. Size~: 111.61 KB | Mar 03 16:57 |
| DaemonFC | ok, so maybe they have FLACs for some things? | Mar 03 16:57 |
| *DaemonFC will have to investigate | Mar 03 16:57 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Gentoo #GNU #Linux Makes Systems Better Optimised for One's Hardware (Benchmarks) http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7715/1.html | Mar 03 16:57 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Gentoo Optimizations Benchmarked - Part 2 | Linux Magazine .::. Size~: 40.53 KB | Mar 03 16:57 |
| DaemonFC | holy shit | Mar 03 16:58 |
| DaemonFC | $1.49 per track in FLAC! | Mar 03 16:58 |
| vermilionnnn | wow :D | Mar 03 16:58 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] K Desktop Environment ( #KDE SC) Has New Release http://ur1.ca/o8xr http://ur1.ca/o5af | Mar 03 16:58 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: KDE Software Compilation 4.4.1 Out Now | KDE.news .::. Size~: 16.44 KB | Mar 03 16:58 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: KDE - KDE Software Compilation 4.4.1 Release Announcement .::. Size~: 14.55 KB | Mar 03 16:58 |
| DaemonFC | you add $4.29 to get In Rainbows in FLAC | Mar 03 16:59 |
| DaemonFC | you can probably get the CD used for less | Mar 03 16:59 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Mar 03 16:59 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Thoughts About #Zeitgeist in #GNOME Desktop 3 http://seilo.geekyogre.com/2010/03/zeitgeist-and-beyond/ | Mar 03 16:59 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Thoughts about the current Zeitgeist situation (GNOME 3 and beyond) » Seilo @ Geeky Ogre .::. Size~: 47.18 KB | Mar 03 16:59 |
| vermilionnnn | probably | Mar 03 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | vermilionnnn, The CD, NEW, is 30 cents cheaper than the album in FLAC | Mar 03 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | it's $5 cheaper than the FLAC album for a used CD | Mar 03 17:00 |
| *vermilionnnn has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Mar 03 17:00 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] New #GNU #Linux Distribution Called a "Huge Success" http://ur1.ca/o8y8 | Mar 03 17:00 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Live Hacking CD a Huge Success; Initial Download Figures for Ethical Hacking Linux Distribution Released .::. Size~: 18.71 KB | Mar 03 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | what's 7digital saying for this? | Mar 03 17:00 |
| DaemonFC | All that quality of the CD at only twice the price? | Mar 03 17:01 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux from Scratch 6.6 is Released http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Linux-from-Scratch-6-6-has-arrived-944410.html #lfs | Mar 03 17:01 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Linux from Scratch 6.6 has arrived - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 31.65 KB | Mar 03 17:01 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Fedora Gets #Zarafa http://download.zarafa.com/zarafa/newsletter/2010%20cebit/20100302%20newsletter%20cebit.html | Mar 03 17:02 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Zarafa Newsletter .::. Size~: 6.57 KB | Mar 03 17:02 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Feeling a lot more peppy after a cup of strong #Bialetti brew. Thanks for caring, droogs. #coffee #gratuitousKubrickReferences | Mar 03 17:03 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Debian Derivative #Knoppix 6.3 is Released http://ur1.ca/o8zq | Mar 03 17:10 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux Calls for Artists http://www.ubuntu-user.com/Online/News/Call-for-Artist-Lucid-Lynx | Mar 03 17:10 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: CeBIT 2010: Knoppix 6.3 CeBIT Edition released - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 34.01 KB | Mar 03 17:10 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Call for Artist: Lucid Lynx / News / Online / Home - Ubuntu User .::. Size~: 24.88 KB | Mar 03 17:11 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #GNU #Linux for Beginners, the #Ubuntu Way http://ur1.ca/o8zv http://ur1.ca/o8zw | Mar 03 17:11 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ubuntu for Beginners | The PC Report .::. Size~: 47.51 KB | Mar 03 17:11 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Good for the goose but not for the gander. .::. Size~: 76.62 KB | Mar 03 17:11 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux #Phones Forge Alliance, Spread Through #Palm and #Nokia http://ur1.ca/o904 http://ur1.ca/o905 http://ur1.ca/o908 | Mar 03 17:12 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: LiMo Foundation Seeks Alliance With WAC -- Open Source -- InformationWeek .::. Size~: 102.85 KB | Mar 03 17:12 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: WebOS 1.4 adds video capture - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 63.7 KB | Mar 03 17:12 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Nokia to launch Linux-powered N900 tomorrow .::. Size~: 156.52 KB | Mar 03 17:13 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #LinuxMint Works Nicely for a Girlfriend http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2010/03/minting-girlfriend.html | Mar 03 17:13 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Thoughts on Technology: Minting the Girlfriend .::. Size~: 98.12 KB | Mar 03 17:13 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Android 2.1 (Linux+Hacks+GUI) Coming Soon http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Android-21-and-Nexus-One-on-Verizon/?kc=rss | Mar 03 17:14 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Android 2.1 to be available everywhere? - News - Linux for Devices .::. Size~: 63.79 KB | Mar 03 17:14 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Tablets with #Linux Less Than Half the Price of Tablet from Patent Bully Apple http://ur1.ca/o90m | Mar 03 17:15 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Tech-no-media: Sub $200 Android tablets arrives: is the iPad doomed? .::. Size~: 99.01 KB | Mar 03 17:15 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Why So-called 'Clouds' (Fog Computing) Suck http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2010/03/keep-your-cloud-1.html | Mar 03 17:16 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Keep Your Cloud, I'm a Customer Not a Consumer - Linux Today Blog .::. Size~: 74.39 KB | Mar 03 17:16 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #FormulaOne Teams Use #FreeSoftware http://linuxers.org/article/vlc-used-formula-one #vlc | Mar 03 17:17 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: VLC is used in Formula One | Linuxers .::. Size~: 48.36 KB | Mar 03 17:17 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Linux Magazine on #CeBIT Open Source (Germany), Allison Recalls #Sun Days http://ur1.ca/o913 http://tuxdeluxe.org/node/303 | Mar 03 17:18 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: CeBIT Open Source Forum 2010 - Linux Magazine Online .::. Size~: 34.86 KB | Mar 03 17:18 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Watching the Sun Set | Tux Deluxe .::. Size~: 30.96 KB | Mar 03 17:19 |
| DaemonFC | http://us.7digital.com/artists/ea-games-soundtrack/command-and-conquer/ | Mar 03 17:22 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: EA Games Soundtrack - Command & Conquer MP3 music downloads - 7digital .::. Size~: 101.68 KB | Mar 03 17:22 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Mar 03 17:22 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.lala.com/#song/3531103600255832703 | Mar 03 17:24 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Lala - Where music plays .::. Size~: 35.55 KB | Mar 03 17:24 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Mar 03 17:24 |
| schestowitz | Is 7digital a Windows shop? | Mar 03 17:24 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, No | Mar 03 17:24 |
| schestowitz | ASPX | Mar 03 17:24 |
| schestowitz | WMA... | Mar 03 17:24 |
| schestowitz | Ah, OK.... | Mar 03 17:25 |
| schestowitz | So it's just Bong that's a Windows feature in Ubuntu. | Mar 03 17:25 |
| DaemonFC | more or less | Mar 03 17:25 |
| DaemonFC | and I wouldn't call it a feature | Mar 03 17:25 |
| schestowitz | Not in Kubuntu | Mar 03 17:25 |
| schestowitz | As I understand it | Mar 03 17:25 |
| schestowitz | IIRC, Firefox doesn't come with Kubuntu | Mar 03 17:25 |
| DaemonFC | more like a cancer spreading to everything it touches | Mar 03 17:25 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 17:25 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, No, Konqueror if you can count that | Mar 03 17:26 |
| schestowitz | "SUSE is a Ballmer that spread to anything it touches" -cancer | Mar 03 17:26 |
| DaemonFC | you can install Firefox easily though | Mar 03 17:26 |
| DaemonFC | Ballmer is great entertainment | Mar 03 17:27 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[sagarun/@sagarun] #nowplaying "Do you know what it feels like loving some one ... " ~ Enrique Iglesias | Mar 03 17:27 | |
| schestowitz | Groklaw seems very worried about Novell todya | Mar 03 17:28 |
| schestowitz | See how many items in News Picks re the takeover | Mar 03 17:28 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: no, he ain't | Mar 03 17:28 |
| schestowitz | Do you find Dick Tracy entertaining too? Oh, never mind... | Mar 03 17:28 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Like Novell could get worse? | Mar 03 17:30 |
| DaemonFC | why do you care who buys them and why? | Mar 03 17:30 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Anti-FOSS Lobby Leads to Open Letter to United States Trade Representative http://ur1.ca/o92c http://ur1.ca/o92d | Mar 03 17:30 | |
| DaemonFC | I hope they do pull a Gordon Gekko on Novell | Mar 03 17:30 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: An Open Letter to The United States Trade Representative - Linux Magazine Online .::. Size~: 36.53 KB | Mar 03 17:30 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Samba 3.5 is Released http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Samba-3-5-release-includes-experimental-SMB2-support-944241.html #smb | Mar 03 17:32 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Vermont Government Moves to #FreeSoftware Through Policy http://www.govtech.com/gt/articles/747966 | Mar 03 17:32 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Samba 3.5 release includes experimental SMB2 support - The H Open Source: News and Features .::. Size~: 32.39 KB | Mar 03 17:32 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Vermont Adopts Open Source Software Policy .::. Size~: 51.43 KB | Mar 03 17:32 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #ACTA Fiasco Gets Criticised in the US, New Zealand http://ur1.ca/o5g1 http://ur1.ca/o92w | Mar 03 17:34 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: New ACTA leak shows major resistance to US-style DRM rules .::. Size~: 31.55 KB | Mar 03 17:34 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Computerworld > Updated: New Zealand seeks to restrain ACTA .::. Size~: 33.16 KB | Mar 03 17:34 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Copyright Laws and #Patent Laws Hijacked by Suppressors http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-love/us-trade-rep-serves-drug_b_483627.html | Mar 03 17:36 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: James Love: US Trade Rep Serves Drug Companies, Publishers and Pushes Anti-Consumer Agenda .::. Size~: 101.67 KB | Mar 03 17:36 |
| schestowitz | [17:30] <DaemonFC> why do you care who buys them and why? | Mar 03 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Many reasons | Mar 03 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Where to start....? | Mar 03 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Can you help me out finding TV covergae? | Mar 03 17:38 |
| DaemonFC | you're serious? | Mar 03 17:39 |
| DaemonFC | you might get to call in to Mad Money | Mar 03 17:39 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Mar 03 17:39 |
| *Thrae has quit (Read error: Operation timed out) | Mar 03 17:53 | |
| *Thrae (~ircuser@generalmx-1-pt.tunnel.tserv13.ash1.ipv6.he.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 17:53 | |
| *Omar87 (~omar@94.249.7.47) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 17:58 | |
| Omar87 | Hi all. | Mar 03 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | How are the Jinn treating you today? :) | Mar 03 17:58 |
| DaemonFC | hehe | Mar 03 17:58 |
| Omar87 | huh? | Mar 03 17:59 |
| DaemonFC | hmmm | Mar 03 18:05 |
| DaemonFC | new HD channels are here | Mar 03 18:05 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 18:05 |
| DaemonFC | watching Animal Planet | Mar 03 18:12 |
| DaemonFC | someone killed a dog and broke another dogs leg and left it to die | Mar 03 18:12 |
| DaemonFC | they rescued that one | Mar 03 18:12 |
| DaemonFC | they should find who did that, break their legs, and leave them in a field somewhere | Mar 03 18:13 |
| DaemonFC | http://4chanarchive.org/images/173611818/1257783406710.gif | Mar 03 18:16 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Mar 03 18:16 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Not a web page! Aborting image/gif type .::. Size~: 0 KB | Mar 03 18:16 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Did I ever mention that my cat likes beer? | Mar 03 18:29 |
| DaemonFC | speaking of animals | Mar 03 18:29 |
| schestowitz | No cat likes beer | Mar 03 18:42 |
| schestowitz | No more than milk | Mar 03 18:42 |
| DaemonFC | he eats doritos | Mar 03 18:42 |
| MinceR | does he also drink coffee and eat lasagna? | Mar 03 18:43 |
| DaemonFC | he eats about anything | Mar 03 18:44 |
| DaemonFC | he weighs about 22 pounds | Mar 03 18:44 |
| DaemonFC | last time I weighed him | Mar 03 18:44 |
| MinceR | sounds a lot like garfield :> | Mar 03 18:45 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] Dad is improving. Was pneumonia. Being brought out of induced coma. Will probably fly over next week, details to be arranged. *exhale* | Mar 03 18:55 | |
| DaemonFC | http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704486504575098083228068948.html?mod=WSJ-World-LEFTSecondNews | Mar 03 19:14 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Chile Temblor Tilts Earth Slightly - WSJ.com .::. Size~: 130.45 KB | Mar 03 19:14 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.v3.co.uk/v3/news/2258895/microsoft-twitter-ballmer | Mar 03 19:18 |
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| sebsebseb | Hi | Mar 03 19:31 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] I have a lovely glass of Leffe to celebrate.Seems appropriate what with the Ubuntu Developer Summit being in Belgium this time around.Happy! | Mar 03 19:34 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[jonobacon] Refreshing the Ubuntu brand - http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/03/03/refreshing-the-ubuntu-brand/ #ubuntu | Mar 03 19:44 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Refreshing The Ubuntu Brand | jonobacon@home .::. Size~: 29.34 KB | Mar 03 19:44 |
| tessier | http://edu.net.vn/forums/t/66970.aspx | Mar 03 19:45 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Hiệp há»™i BSA góp ý dá»± thảo Thông tÆ° phần má»m mã nguồn mở trong giáo dục - Edunet - Mang Giao duc - Bo Giao duc va Dao tao .::. Size~: 63.33 KB | Mar 03 19:45 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Get a load of that. So evil... | Mar 03 19:45 |
| tessier | It is in english. | Mar 03 19:45 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Why am I excited? http://bit.ly/9ospDY This is why. Ubuntu Brand Refresh! | Mar 03 19:45 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Refreshing The Ubuntu Brand | jonobacon@home .::. Size~: 29.34 KB | Mar 03 19:45 |
| tessier | It is reasonably well researched though. I am impressed that they know about "Reflections on Trusting Trust". | Mar 03 19:49 |
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| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] New Blog Post "Bye Bye Brown" http://bit.ly/c2fhhZ - loving the new themes and colours. Are you? | Mar 03 20:02 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bye Bye Brown | popey.com blog .::. Size~: 30.02 KB | Mar 03 20:02 |
| tessier | Since when do FOSS guys care about branding? | Mar 03 20:03 |
| schestowitz | tessier: excellent find, thanks! | Mar 03 20:03 |
| schestowitz | Novell sponsors the BSA | Mar 03 20:03 |
| MinceR | how do you know novell sponsors the b$a? | Mar 03 20:05 |
| *jono (~jono@c-67-164-44-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 20:06 | |
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| bruce89 | rather low contrast it appears | Mar 03 20:06 |
| *Ziomatrix (~nostradum@ool-44c468e3.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 20:06 | |
| schestowitz | tessier: what do you think about THE Novell news? | Mar 03 20:07 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: I'll do a post about it shortly | Mar 03 20:07 |
| tessier | schestowitz: I don't know. | Mar 03 20:07 |
| tessier | schestowitz: Has the offer been accepted? | Mar 03 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Groklaw is worried about it | Mar 03 20:07 |
| schestowitz | They could drop the SCO trial | Mar 03 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Or do secret deals | Mar 03 20:07 |
| schestowitz | See PJ's comments anyway | Mar 03 20:08 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I think it's a matter of WHICH offer they will accept (if any more come up) | Mar 03 20:08 |
| schestowitz | I'll do a huge post about it | Mar 03 20:08 |
| schestowitz | Congo ties | Mar 03 20:08 |
| schestowitz | "activist firm" | Mar 03 20:08 |
| schestowitz | They are not good guys | Mar 03 20:08 |
| schestowitz | And they could take over NOVL just to sell it | Mar 03 20:08 |
| bruce89 | well clearly the offer that's on the table now is not going to happen | Mar 03 20:09 |
| sebsebseb | jono: what a disapointment the new theme, by the looks of the screen shots | Mar 03 20:11 |
| sebsebseb | propritary software still wins for eye candy | Mar 03 20:11 |
| sebsebseb | Windows | Mar 03 20:11 |
| sebsebseb | Mac OS X | Mar 03 20:11 |
| jono | sebsebseb, maybe try it when it is released before you judge | Mar 03 20:11 |
| MinceR | i like the new theme | Mar 03 20:11 |
| jono | its really nice | Mar 03 20:11 |
| MinceR | too bad it ships with the novellized release | Mar 03 20:12 |
| bruce89 | is that the default background that I saw on that post | Mar 03 20:12 |
| jono | sebsebseb, and don't like it, use another theme? | Mar 03 20:12 |
| sebsebseb | also Mandriva has nice themes by default :) | Mar 03 20:12 |
| MinceR | or micro$oftized, if you prefer | Mar 03 20:12 |
| sebsebseb | jono: more like use another distro :D | Mar 03 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | sebsebseb, They broke all themes not included by default (and even a couple that are) | Mar 03 20:12 |
| jono | sebsebseb, feel free to ue Mandrive :) | Mar 03 20:12 |
| bruce89 | just don't whine | Mar 03 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | the icons for the indicator applet are missing if you use most themes | Mar 03 20:12 |
| sebsebseb | jono: I'll be installing alpha 2 in a vm soon, and getting the updates | Mar 03 20:12 |
| DaemonFC | and I don't see the "Light" theme | Mar 03 20:13 |
| sebsebseb | jono: could of had a nice Lucid Lynx background or something, 8.10 for example came with a rather nice background, 8.04 had quite a nice one as well really | Mar 03 20:13 |
| bruce89 | have | Mar 03 20:13 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @mparent77772 Friedman: US losing competitive edge http:// nyti.ms/9D882q // guess he holds Microsoft as a gold standard for 'competing' | Mar 03 20:14 | |
| Omar87 | Hi all. | Mar 03 20:15 |
| *Ziomatrix has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi) | Mar 03 20:15 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] Does anyone actually take Friedman seriously? #rhetoricalquestion #nyt #corrupt #neocon | Mar 03 20:15 | |
| Omar87 | jono, so basically, what does it take to convince the Ubuntu dev team to sterilize the distro from Mono junk? | Mar 03 20:16 |
| jono | Omar87, had this conversation before | Mar 03 20:16 |
| jono | no change | Mar 03 20:16 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @mparent77772 Indonesia Riots Over Bank Bailout http://bit.ly/ byzcaW // corrupt West: take note #fraud #theft | Mar 03 20:16 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: bit.ly, a simple url shortener .::. Size~: 15.88 KB | Mar 03 20:16 |
| Omar87 | jono, what do you mean? | Mar 03 20:16 |
| DaemonFC | could be a Ballmer by proxy bid | Mar 03 20:17 |
| jono | Omar87, I mean we have talked this over multiple times | Mar 03 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | same agenda when he made a bid for Yahoo | Mar 03 20:17 |
| jono | no point discussing this again | Mar 03 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | knew they wouldn't take it and the stock would tank | Mar 03 20:17 |
| DaemonFC | Omar87, It's them that's going to be sued over it | Mar 03 20:17 |
| Omar87 | jono, so they are insisting to take the poison? But that's not democracy! | Mar 03 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | they can be stupid if they want | Mar 03 20:18 |
| Omar87 | No offense, but really. | Mar 03 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | Shipping Mono in binary form is no different than shipping LAME in binary form | Mar 03 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | but they leave out LAME | Mar 03 20:18 |
| DaemonFC | "You can't have MP3 out of box, but here's a note taking widget" | Mar 03 20:19 |
| Omar87 | If Ubuntu is claimed to be a "distro for human beings", then I believe it should take their opinion in everything. | Mar 03 20:19 |
| sebsebseb | Omar87: How about a better question :D What would it take for Ubuntu to have a properly decant theme? Something like XP, Vista, Windows 7, or Mac OS X? | Mar 03 20:19 |
| sebsebseb | or even Mandriva | Mar 03 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | sebsebseb, XP? | Mar 03 20:19 |
| DaemonFC | really? | Mar 03 20:19 |
| sebsebseb | Mandriva comes with a pretty nice theme by default, and then it has a few other themes as well, that are rather nice :) | Mar 03 20:19 |
| sebsebseb | that's great having a distro that comes with rather nice themes by default, Debian was alright when I vm'd it themewise | Mar 03 20:20 |
| Omar87 | DaemonFC, I agree. XP has a properly decent interface? | Mar 03 20:20 |
| DaemonFC | uhhhm, no | Mar 03 20:20 |
| DaemonFC | it looks like a toy | Mar 03 20:20 |
| sebsebseb | loads of people getting themes for Ubuntu from 3rd party sites such as Gnome-Look there was what was meant to be a screensaver on there not that long ago, which turned out to be a malicious program | Mar 03 20:20 |
| DaemonFC | for 3 year olds | Mar 03 20:20 |
| sebsebseb | plus I think maybe there was actsaulyl also what was meant to be a theme on there, which turned out to be malicious program | Mar 03 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | which was hilarious | Mar 03 20:21 |
| Omar87 | sebsebseb, themes are not as significant as the Mono issue. | Mar 03 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | expect more of that, sebsebseb | Mar 03 20:21 |
| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: what was hailarious? | Mar 03 20:21 |
| sebsebseb | the malicious screensaver? | Mar 03 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | As Ubuntu refuses to package things or redirects you to PPAs | Mar 03 20:21 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Received a nice postcard from the Netherlands, Amsterdam. No seeds though... ;) | Mar 03 20:21 | |
| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: indeed | Mar 03 20:21 |
| bruce89 | beauty is the in eye of the beholder | Mar 03 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | sebsebseb, Yeah. PPAs are begging for trojans | Mar 03 20:21 |
| DaemonFC | It'll happen eventually | Mar 03 20:22 |
| Omar87 | jono, so there's not way to convince them to dump mono, at all? | Mar 03 20:22 |
| MinceR | lol @ the notion of the default xp theme being "decent" | Mar 03 20:22 |
| DaemonFC | PPAs are nothing more than trusting the owner not to fuck up your system | Mar 03 20:22 |
| bruce89 | for what it's worth, theme theme looks fine to me apart from it being a bit low contrast | Mar 03 20:22 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: all repos are like that :> | Mar 03 20:22 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: well the blue aereo is alright | Mar 03 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | some PPAs are obviously trustworthy cause they're from the people that work on the distro itself | Mar 03 20:23 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: however I would change it to the green one, or use a 3rd party theme | Mar 03 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | most of them though, who knos? | Mar 03 20:23 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: there's no aero in xp | Mar 03 20:23 |
| sebsebseb | uh | Mar 03 20:23 |
| sebsebseb | yeah | Mar 03 20:23 |
| sebsebseb | I meant | Mar 03 20:23 |
| sebsebseb | Luna or whatever it's called | Mar 03 20:23 |
| bruce89 | Luna | Mar 03 20:23 |
| MinceR | yes, it's called luna | Mar 03 20:23 |
| MinceR | and the silver one manages to look not like shit | Mar 03 20:23 |
| sebsebseb | Windows might not be that good as an OS, but for eye candy, oh it's good | Mar 03 20:23 |
| MinceR | but it's not the default | Mar 03 20:23 |
| MinceR | so it doesn't count :> | Mar 03 20:23 |
| DaemonFC | You can patch out the uxtheme.dll and load unsigned themes | Mar 03 20:23 |
| sebsebseb | compared to Ubuntu that is | Mar 03 20:23 |
| MinceR | yeah, you can hack winblows xp to gain the privilege of installing themes | Mar 03 20:24 |
| MinceR | it's so user-friendly | Mar 03 20:24 |
| bruce89 | says you | Mar 03 20:24 |
| DaemonFC | StyleXP does the same thing only it patches the dll in memory every time the system loads | Mar 03 20:24 |
| sebsebseb | Vista is even better for eye candy compared to Ubuntu, no I don't mean the black aero theme, I mean the backgrounds and other pictures that comes with the OS | Mar 03 20:24 |
| DaemonFC | no modding OS files on the disk that way | Mar 03 20:24 |
| bruce89 | no theme will be to everyone's tastes | Mar 03 20:24 |
| DaemonFC | but StyleXP is $20 | Mar 03 20:24 |
| sebsebseb | Windows 7 is better than Ubuntu themewise | Mar 03 20:24 |
| sebsebseb | as far as I know | Mar 03 20:24 |
| MinceR | just use kubuntu | Mar 03 20:24 |
| sebsebseb | Mandriva comes with a rather nice blue theme on by default, and then other similar themes, in differnet colours with it as well, good stuff | Mar 03 20:25 |
| MinceR | and use the plasma GUI to get some themes and backgrounds :> | Mar 03 20:25 |
| *bruce89 sighs | Mar 03 20:25 | |
| DaemonFC | most of the limitations of the themes in Ubuntu are due to limitations in GNOME | Mar 03 20:25 |
| sebsebseb | MinceR: I don't like KDE much as a DE | Mar 03 20:25 |
| DaemonFC | ;) | Mar 03 20:25 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: your loss | Mar 03 20:25 |
| sebsebseb | Ubuntu is a joke for themes, but | Mar 03 20:25 |
| MinceR | sebsebseb: also, i don't like winblows nor macos much as a DE :> | Mar 03 20:25 |
| bruce89 | DaemonFC: that's not strictly true | Mar 03 20:25 |
| sebsebseb | I do need to try it more properly in a vm | Mar 03 20:25 |
| sebsebseb | otherwise it's a little un fair, saying this new theme is a joke etc | Mar 03 20:25 |
| Omar87 | MinceR, Kubuntu is awesome. But it's to damn heavy on my laptop. | Mar 03 20:25 |
| Omar87 | too* | Mar 03 20:25 |
| MinceR | strange, it isn't too heavy on my netbook | Mar 03 20:26 |
| sebsebseb | see above jono some of us want to be fair when it comes to our negative comments :D | Mar 03 20:26 |
| jono | :) | Mar 03 20:26 |
| Omar87 | MinceR, how many RAMs? 1GB here. | Mar 03 20:26 |
| Aondo | bruce89 why not? i was thinking the same thing. | Mar 03 20:26 |
| bruce89 | Aondo: it's a myth | Mar 03 20:26 |
| MinceR | Omar87: 2GB on the netbook | Mar 03 20:26 |
| DaemonFC | One has to wonder when the proprietary ball of krap is coming to kubuntu | Mar 03 20:26 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 20:26 |
| Omar87 | MinceR, yep. That's why. | Mar 03 20:26 |
| Omar87 | DaemonFC, let's hope it never does. | Mar 03 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | Omar87, Ubuntu really only seems intent on crapifying GNOME | Mar 03 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | I think KDE is safe for now | Mar 03 20:27 |
| DaemonFC | not enough Kubuntu users to piss with at the moment | Mar 03 20:27 |
| bruce89 | nah, KDE's done that themsevles | Mar 03 20:28 |
| *bruce89 being sarcastic | Mar 03 20:28 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Does this mean all the merchandise in the Canonical store is a) Reduced to clear, b) Retro, c) Collectable, d) Other? | Mar 03 20:28 | |
| Omar87 | DaemonFC, I've tried Lubuntu 10.04 alpha 3 recently. | Mar 03 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | well, bruce89, I think Ubuntu refuses to package SongBird because it has 7digital in it and if you buy through that they don't get their click pennies | Mar 03 20:29 |
| Omar87 | Can you believe I couldn't find an update manager in there? | Mar 03 20:29 |
| DaemonFC | it seems obvious they've planned their music store for a while | Mar 03 20:29 |
| bruce89 | DaemonFC: I was more under the impression it violates the GPL | Mar 03 20:30 |
| DaemonFC | bruce89, no it doesn't | Mar 03 20:30 |
| sebsebseb | jono: uh I typed that I would install alpha 2 into a vm, I meant alpha 3. Last time I tried to do that I was pressing back and forward and such and the installer ended up crashing basicalley. So if I install all in one go, put info in, and press forward, I guess it will install alright. | Mar 03 20:30 |
| bruce89 | DaemonFC: fair enough | Mar 03 20:30 |
| DaemonFC | VLC is GPL 2 and the Mozilla stuff is tri-license | Mar 03 20:31 |
| bruce89 | https://bugs.launchpad.net/debian/+bug/94494 | Mar 03 20:31 |
| DaemonFC | so you could build them together with no license conflicts | Mar 03 20:31 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bug #94494 in Debian: “[needs-packaging] Songbird” .::. Size~: 109.39 KB | Mar 03 20:31 |
| bruce89 | seems to be mozilla people not caring about people wanting to use xulrunner | Mar 03 20:32 |
| DaemonFC | sounds like Mozilla is being dickheads and bouncing back patches | Mar 03 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | typical | Mar 03 20:33 |
| bruce89 | another reason to port gnome-shell to seed | Mar 03 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | "BTW, there's a "SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT" popup on startup. The recent Firefox EULA issue makes me think this not be well received.." | Mar 03 20:33 |
| MinceR | seed? | Mar 03 20:33 |
| DaemonFC | Nothing evil in the SongBird EULA | Mar 03 20:33 |
| *MinceR prefers to do without EULAs | Mar 03 20:34 | |
| bruce89 | MinceR: instead gsj | Mar 03 20:34 |
| MinceR | EULAs are for proprietary software :> | Mar 03 20:34 |
| bruce89 | gjs | Mar 03 20:34 |
| DaemonFC | the Songbird EULA is no worse than what you agree with to use Firefox | Mar 03 20:34 |
| MinceR | bruce89: doesn't ring a bell | Mar 03 20:34 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Ubuntu #GNU #Linux Users Reject F-Spot ( #Mono ) http://boycottnovell.com/2010/03/03/fspot-poll/ #novell #microsoft #trojan | Mar 03 20:34 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ubuntu GNU/Linux Users Reject F-Spot (Mono) | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 78.75 KB | Mar 03 20:34 |
| bruce89 | uses JavaScriptCore instead of SpiderMonkey | Mar 03 20:34 |
| DaemonFC | or probably your distribution in total | Mar 03 20:34 |
| MinceR | bruce89: ic | Mar 03 20:35 |
| bruce89 | seems strange for GNOME to cut its ties with Mozilla, and then to have their JS engine required for the whole shell thing | Mar 03 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, The gist of it is that Songbird is GPLv2 with a linking exception, you agree not to call derivative works Songbird or use their artwork in it, you understand that extensions might be proprietary, the usual export control crap, and so on | Mar 03 20:36 |
| MinceR | ic | Mar 03 20:36 |
| DaemonFC | so not any worse than Firefox | Mar 03 20:36 |
| MinceR | how is the linking exception different from LGPL? | Mar 03 20:36 |
| bruce89 | probably prohibits its entry into Debian | Mar 03 20:37 |
| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL_linking_exception | Mar 03 20:37 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: GPL linking exception - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .::. Size~: 36.63 KB | Mar 03 20:37 |
| MinceR | bruce89: lol | Mar 03 20:37 |
| DaemonFC | "Compared to the GNU Classpath license above, the LGPL formulates more requirements to the linking exception in order to guarantee the customers of the final product more freedom. Specifically, it must be possible and legal to link the program against a newer version of the LGPL-library, and to do private modifications, reverse-engineering and debugging." | Mar 03 20:37 |
| DaemonFC | so basically the GPL + linking exception is less copyleft than the LGPL | Mar 03 20:38 |
| DaemonFC | it's still more copyleft than the Mozilla MPL though | Mar 03 20:38 |
| MinceR | that applies to [L]GPLv3 though, afaiu | Mar 03 20:38 |
| MinceR | or not | Mar 03 20:38 |
| bruce89 | xulrunner seems a bit silly considering they don't care about other than their own stuff | Mar 03 20:39 |
| sebsebseb | jono: apparantly if I install alpha 3 into vm at the moment, and get the updates, I won't get the theme | Mar 03 20:39 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, bottom line is that Songbird doesn't violate anyones licenses, it would have to go into Universe though because it supports patented codec playback | Mar 03 20:40 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 20:40 |
| jono | sebsebseb, they are not released yet | Mar 03 20:40 |
| DaemonFC | but if Ubuntu wanted to package it, they easily could | Mar 03 20:40 |
| sebsebseb | jono: how come you got to see it then? | Mar 03 20:40 |
| sebsebseb | jono: daily build? | Mar 03 20:40 |
| DaemonFC | no worse than anything else they have in there | Mar 03 20:40 |
| jono | sebsebseb, because I know the guy who is working on them | Mar 03 20:41 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, The advantage to using VLC as a backend is that it can play any audio file format VLC can, which is a hell of a lot | Mar 03 20:41 |
| DaemonFC | even more than Gstreamer (though by that point they're obscure) | Mar 03 20:42 |
| DaemonFC | VLC is also more fault tolerant of errors in a stream | Mar 03 20:42 |
| DaemonFC | Gstreamer sometimes panics and bails | Mar 03 20:42 |
| MinceR | ic | Mar 03 20:43 |
| DaemonFC | better to have a "blip" somewhere in the file than the thing refusing to play it at all | Mar 03 20:43 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 20:43 |
| DaemonFC | VLC has always been a good playback engine, but its interface makes it suck as a music player | Mar 03 20:44 |
| DaemonFC | Songbird basically provides a pretty interface, an HTML engine, and Firefox's extension system on top of VLC's playback engine | Mar 03 20:44 |
| DaemonFC | it's delicious B-) | Mar 03 20:45 |
| DaemonFC | you can even use it as a web browser if you want, complete with Adblock Plus | Mar 03 20:45 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 20:45 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] My favorite is #7,657,849, filed less than a month ago, covering unlocking a device by performing a gesture: http://i5.be/ayD | Mar 03 20:45 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: The CIO Weblog: An embarrassment of patents .::. Size~: 123.63 KB | Mar 03 20:45 |
| DaemonFC | not really ideal for that, but it's not a bad browser | Mar 03 20:46 |
| DaemonFC | for some reason it only misses one web browser feature, and that's bookmarks | Mar 03 20:47 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Mar 03 20:47 |
| MinceR | can it shuffle the playlist? | Mar 03 20:47 |
| bruce89 | does VLC reimplement all the codecs? | Mar 03 20:47 |
| bruce89 | or does it make use of ffmpeg | Mar 03 20:47 |
| MinceR | does it have OSD functionality? | Mar 03 20:47 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, Yeah, you can have it randomize | Mar 03 20:47 |
| DaemonFC | ir just play through highest rated | Mar 03 20:47 |
| MinceR | and can it play modules? :) | Mar 03 20:47 |
| MinceR | i don't mean playing the playlist in random order, rather shuffling its order and then playing it in order :> | Mar 03 20:48 |
| DaemonFC | pretty sure you can | Mar 03 20:48 |
| DaemonFC | it has some weird and powerful playlist building options | Mar 03 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | scared me away from most of its features honestly | Mar 03 20:49 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmvw7N-Nn1U&feature=grec | Mar 03 20:49 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: YouTube- US Schools Trail World In Child Soldier Aptitude .::. Size~: 143.16 KB | Mar 03 20:49 |
| bruce89 | sebsebseb: metacity buttons on the wrong side | Mar 03 20:49 |
| DaemonFC | bruce89, AFAIK VLC implemented all their codecs from scratch | Mar 03 20:50 |
| bruce89 | hmm | Mar 03 20:50 |
| DaemonFC | well, decoding anyway | Mar 03 20:50 |
| bruce89 | it'll be interesting to see if gstreamer-0.11 helps | Mar 03 20:51 |
| DaemonFC | it uses LAME and FAAC and stuff internally | Mar 03 20:51 |
| DaemonFC | as encoders | Mar 03 20:51 |
| bruce89 | I see | Mar 03 20:52 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[zoobab] Defining the limits of patentable subject-matter in "new" areas (life, software, business methods) is a source of unease: http://i5.be/ayE | Mar 03 20:55 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Political Legacy Of Ms Alison Brimelow - BLOG@IPJUR.COM .::. Size~: 49.94 KB | Mar 03 20:55 |
| DaemonFC | http://us.7digital.com/songbird/album/carlos-moerdijk-emmy-verhey/beethoven-the-complete-violin-sonatas | Mar 03 20:56 |
| DaemonFC | that's not a bad deal | Mar 03 20:56 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Mar 03 20:57 |
| *oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 20:57 | |
| DaemonFC | 23 cents per MP3 :) | Mar 03 20:57 |
| DaemonFC | see, the price does go down after a few hundred years | Mar 03 20:57 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 20:57 |
| DaemonFC | copyright law ftw | Mar 03 20:57 |
| DaemonFC | the music is in the public domain, but the performance itself is not | Mar 03 20:58 |
| schestowitz | /which/ copyright law? | Mar 03 21:09 |
| *bruce89 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Mar 03 21:10 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?131504-Bush-boo-d-while-throwing-first-pitch | Mar 03 21:11 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bush boo'd while throwing first pitch. .::. Size~: 57.32 KB | Mar 03 21:11 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 03 21:11 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.videosift.com/video/Bush-Booed-At-Inauguration | Mar 03 21:14 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bush Booed At Obama's Inauguration • VideoSift: Online Video *Quality Control .::. Size~: 66.75 KB | Mar 03 21:14 |
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| DaemonFC | http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcnow/2010/03/ronald-reagan-ulysses-s-grant-50-dollar-bill.html | Mar 03 21:17 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Congressman wants Ronald Reagan to replace Ulysses S. Grant on the $50 bill | D.C. Now | Los Angeles Times .::. Size~: 84.85 KB | Mar 03 21:17 |
| *DaemonFC pukes | Mar 03 21:17 | |
| Diablo-D3 | well | Mar 03 21:18 |
| DaemonFC | "McHenry did not mention Reaganomics, the theory of trickle-down spending whose viability seems to be in dispute at the moment. The congressman's case: Polls of presidential scholars consistently show Reagan outranking Grant, including a Wall Street Journal survey in 2005 that ranked Reagan sixth and Grant 29th." | Mar 03 21:18 |
| DaemonFC | Oh that explains EVERYTHING | Mar 03 21:18 |
| DaemonFC | *sigh* | Mar 03 21:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | lets see something | Mar 03 21:18 |
| *Diablo-D3 OPENS THE WIKIPEDIAS | Mar 03 21:18 | |
| DaemonFC | the Wall Street Journal loves Reagan, wonder why | Mar 03 21:19 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, They should put Reagan on the quarter | Mar 03 21:20 |
| DaemonFC | know why? | Mar 03 21:20 |
| DaemonFC | two-bit piece of a two-bit con artist | Mar 03 21:20 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 03 21:20 |
| *jono has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) | Mar 03 21:21 | |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: okay so | Mar 03 21:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | washington is on the dollar | Mar 03 21:21 |
| Diablo-D3 | what is adams on? | Mar 03 21:21 |
| DaemonFC | yeah I know, and Washington wasn't a bad guy | Mar 03 21:22 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 21:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: we're doing an experiement | Mar 03 21:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | what is adams on? | Mar 03 21:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | ding! times up | Mar 03 21:22 |
| DaemonFC | well | Mar 03 21:22 |
| DaemonFC | $2 bill | Mar 03 21:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | afiak, nothing thats a bill still in circulation | Mar 03 21:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | er, hes on $2? | Mar 03 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | on the back | Mar 03 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | yes | Mar 03 21:23 |
| *gargoyle-grin has quit (Quit: Leaving.) | Mar 03 21:23 | |
| Diablo-D3 | doesnt count | Mar 03 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | sure it does | Mar 03 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | he's on the bill | Mar 03 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | I win | Mar 03 21:23 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 21:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | Im talking people on the front damnit | Mar 03 21:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | because, lets just sort out the most popular presidents here | Mar 03 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | he's on the $1 bill too | Mar 03 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | on the back | Mar 03 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | 2007 series | Mar 03 21:25 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] I am not sure "JavaScript" is a dumber name than "NetBeans". | Mar 03 21:25 | |
| MinceR | :D | Mar 03 21:25 |
| DaemonFC | and on the 2nd of four $1 coins minted that year | Mar 03 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | on the front | Mar 03 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 21:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | lincoln, washington, and franklin d roosevelt are generally the three most popular presidents | Mar 03 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | you just asked is he on anything | Mar 03 21:26 |
| DaemonFC | answer is yes | Mar 03 21:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | two of them are on a bill | Mar 03 21:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | roosevelt isnt | Mar 03 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | did not specify whether they still made them | Mar 03 21:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | neither is kennedy | Mar 03 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | well, there's better candidates than Reagan | Mar 03 21:27 |
| DaemonFC | that's all I'm saying | Mar 03 21:27 |
| *bruce89 (~bruce89@78.33.73.43) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 21:27 | |
| bruce89 | http://www.osnews.com/story/22955/Canonical_Unveils_New_Ubuntu_Design_Themes_Logos | Mar 03 21:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | yes, both kennedy and roosevelt | Mar 03 21:27 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Canonical Unveils New Ubuntu Design, Themes, Logos .::. Size~: 25.84 KB | Mar 03 21:27 |
| sebsebseb | bruce89: uhmm | Mar 03 21:28 |
| Diablo-D3 | eisenhower isnt on a bill, he was popular | Mar 03 21:28 |
| bruce89 | sebsebseb: what? | Mar 03 21:28 |
| sebsebseb | bruce89: before you joined here jono gave this link http://www.jonobacon.org/2010/03/03/refreshing-the-ubuntu-brand/ | Mar 03 21:29 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Refreshing The Ubuntu Brand | jonobacon@home .::. Size~: 93.52 KB | Mar 03 21:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | jefferson and jackson are popular, and on bills | Mar 03 21:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | truman is popular, hes not on one | Mar 03 21:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | clinton is popular, but hes not dead yet | Mar 03 21:29 |
| MinceR | oh, i didn't notice the titlebar fuckup | Mar 03 21:29 |
| MinceR | mac asay is making his presence felt | Mar 03 21:29 |
| bruce89 | that background seemed awfy macy | Mar 03 21:30 |
| bruce89 | mac-y that should be | Mar 03 21:30 |
| MinceR | i don't mind the background | Mar 03 21:30 |
| MinceR | the beige theme is ugly | Mar 03 21:31 |
| MinceR | the gray looks cool except for the titlebars | Mar 03 21:31 |
| MinceR | s/ay/ay one/ | Mar 03 21:31 |
| bruce89 | that translucent tooltip thing's from Fedora incidentally | Mar 03 21:31 |
| vermilionnnn | who would move the minimise, maximise and close to the left hand side? :S | Mar 03 21:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/03/coby-85-smartbook-feels-like-a-hundred-bucks-hands-on/ | Mar 03 21:32 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Coby $85 smartbook feels like a hundred bucks (hands-on) -- Engadget .::. Size~: 203.05 KB | Mar 03 21:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | OH HAI | Mar 03 21:32 |
| *jono (~jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 21:32 | |
| DaemonFC | jono, Where is the Light theme at? | Mar 03 21:32 |
| jono | DaemonFC, not uploaded to the distro yet | Mar 03 21:33 |
| DaemonFC | ETA? | Mar 03 21:33 |
| sebsebseb | DaemonFC: tommorow I think | Mar 03 21:34 |
| sebsebseb | tommorow is also the user interface freeze | Mar 03 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | I'd also like them to fix Gnote at some point | Mar 03 21:34 |
| DaemonFC | they also killed Gwibber at some point | Mar 03 21:34 |
| bruce89 | I'm trying to find a sane colour theme for gnome-shell | Mar 03 21:35 |
| sebsebseb | bruce89: well the bruce89 colour woudn't be one | Mar 03 21:36 |
| DaemonFC | GNOME Shell is ill tempered right now | Mar 03 21:36 |
| DaemonFC | it causes the kernel to panic | Mar 03 21:36 |
| MinceR | 222426 < vermilionnnn> who would move the minimise, maximise and close to the left hand side? :S | Mar 03 21:36 |
| bruce89 | must you be ceaselessly be annoying? | Mar 03 21:36 |
| MinceR | crApple cultists | Mar 03 21:36 |
| MinceR | and mac asay happens to be one | Mar 03 21:36 |
| bruce89 | DaemonFC: not here it doesn't anyway | Mar 03 21:36 |
| MinceR | even though he's paid to not be one | Mar 03 21:36 |
| sebsebseb | bruce89: you annoy me at times as well, and you probably know it :D | Mar 03 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | I have about 10-20 minutes in GNOME Shell before a "critical kernel error" and not long after that a hard freeze | Mar 03 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | so I'll stay out of it for now | Mar 03 21:37 |
| MinceR | if gnome shell causes the kernel to panic then not only gnome shell is buggy, so is the kernel | Mar 03 21:37 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, It's Canonical, when everything does just work I'll let you know :) | Mar 03 21:38 |
| DaemonFC | they try to hack shit together and then it starts bombing out for no reason and pissing the user off | Mar 03 21:38 |
| DaemonFC | it's FrankenLinux is what their kernel turns out to be | Mar 03 21:38 |
| DaemonFC | and backporting the drm system as kernel modules for 2.6.32 is the dumbest thing I think I've seen to date | Mar 03 21:39 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Novell Should Stop Sponsoring the #BSA , Which Lobbies Against #FreeSoftware in #Vietnam http://ur1.ca/oa12 | Mar 03 21:40 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Novell Should Stop Sponsoring the BSA, Which Lobbies Against Free Software in Vietnam | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 82.22 KB | Mar 03 21:40 |
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| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] #Google Wants U.S. to Weigh WTO Challenge to #China Censorship http://ur1.ca/oa15 | Mar 03 21:42 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Google Wants U.S. to Weigh WTO Challenge to China Censorship - BusinessWeek .::. Size~: 50.44 KB | Mar 03 21:42 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, The F-Spot poll, rofl | Mar 03 21:54 |
| DaemonFC | gthumb has all the capabilities of F-Spot | Mar 03 21:54 |
| DaemonFC | with no Mono dependency | Mar 03 21:54 |
| *Omar87 has quit (Quit: Leaving) | Mar 03 21:54 | |
| DaemonFC | anyway, the problem with asking people what they want is that they'll tell you | Mar 03 21:55 |
| -BNi/#boycottnovell-[diablod3/@diablod3] Gentleman in tuberculosis quarantine amuses self by making rap videos http://ur1.ca/oa2t #awesome | Mar 03 21:57 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Gentleman in tuberculosis quarantine amuses self by making rap videos - Boing Boing .::. Size~: 34.48 KB | Mar 03 21:57 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Anona: excelente quando madura, uma MERDA quando verde... :| | Mar 03 21:59 | |
| DaemonFC | something like Tunechecker.com would be nice if it supported telling you the price in USD | Mar 03 22:02 |
| DaemonFC | always get the album from the cheapest store | Mar 03 22:03 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] "US is confident suicide bomb attacks in the lead up to #Iraq election will not derail the vote" // right, need a Supreme Court for that | Mar 03 22:07 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[qu1j0t3] RT @BibleAlsoSays RT @mzemily209 I believe in GOD /who cares? that, my friends, is why we learned to separate church & state, millennia ago | Mar 03 22:11 | |
| DaemonFC | http://www.amazon.com/Plastic-Beach-Gorillaz/dp/B0035G9ABQ | Mar 03 22:12 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Amazon.com: Plastic Beach: Gorillaz: Music .::. Size~: 345.95 KB | Mar 03 22:12 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] Ron Hovsepian Receives Another Large Lump of Cash as #Novell Sale Looms http://ur1.ca/oa5j #microsoft #finance #ripoff | Mar 03 22:12 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Ron Hovsepian Receives Another Large Lump of Cash as Novell Sale Looms | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 107.51 KB | Mar 03 22:12 |
| DaemonFC | "This title will be released on March 9, 2010." | Mar 03 22:12 |
| *DaemonFC has it | Mar 03 22:13 | |
| *DaemonFC kicks back | Mar 03 22:13 | |
| DaemonFC | http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2010/03/bruce-willis-takes-a-gun-to-the-gorillaz-in-stylo-clip.html | Mar 03 22:17 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Bruce Willis takes a gun to the Gorillaz in 'Stylo' clip | Pop & Hiss | Los Angeles Times .::. Size~: 125.94 KB | Mar 03 22:17 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Mar 03 22:17 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] I really can't take credit for the new Ubuntu logo.. despite what some bloggers may say http://bit.ly/bz6aIb | Mar 03 22:25 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Lucid = Light = Less Relevent? « U8UNTU LXER .::. Size~: 20.5 KB | Mar 03 22:25 |
| DaemonFC | "Coke lite" = Diet Coke, right? | Mar 03 22:28 |
| MinceR | yes | Mar 03 22:28 |
| DaemonFC | they've released so many weird shitty things that I wasn't sure | Mar 03 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, They even tried Coke C2 back in 2004 which was like half diet and half regular | Mar 03 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | it tasted vile | Mar 03 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | was gone by September | Mar 03 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | they introduced it in late July | Mar 03 22:29 |
| DaemonFC | it had high fructose corn syrup, aspartame, acesulfame potassium all at once | Mar 03 22:30 |
| DaemonFC | so it tasted way worse than the worst diet pop out there and it still had calories and wasn't safe for diabetics | Mar 03 22:31 |
| DaemonFC | I have no idea what kind of diseased management it takes to approve something like that | Mar 03 22:31 |
| DaemonFC | makes you wonder if any of the suits actually drank some | Mar 03 22:32 |
| DaemonFC | I remember I worked at Walmart at the tiem and the Coke rep left a bunch of it for the employees to try | Mar 03 22:33 |
| DaemonFC | so I took a sip and spit it out in the breakroom sink | Mar 03 22:33 |
| DaemonFC | and poured the rest of the can out while singing "Choke-A Cola stinky drink, pour it down the kitchen sink....smells like vinegar and tastes like ink...." | Mar 03 22:34 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 22:34 |
| DaemonFC | Pepsi experiments way more than Coke does and still has yet to release something I hate | Mar 03 22:35 |
| MinceR | i think the idea is that if you use lower concentrations of sweeteners, the tinge is weaker | Mar 03 22:36 |
| MinceR | also, they're probably less harmful in lower doses | Mar 03 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, I drink diet pepsi, diet mt dew, and diet dr pepper probably in that order | Mar 03 22:37 |
| MinceR | for example i think it was claimed that the constituents of aspartame occur naturally in food we eat | Mar 03 22:37 |
| MinceR | but probably in much lower doses | Mar 03 22:37 |
| DaemonFC | I try to avoid Coke unless it's all there is | Mar 03 22:37 |
| MinceR | i prefer pepsi to coke anyway, always have | Mar 03 22:37 |
| MinceR | even though i rarely drink such drinks nowadays | Mar 03 22:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | [05:23:18] <DaemonFC> it had high fructose corn syrup, aspartame, acesulfame potassium all at once | Mar 03 22:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | ugh | Mar 03 22:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | see the problem is | Mar 03 22:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | you cant combine artifical and real | Mar 03 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | that it's disgusting? | Mar 03 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Mar 03 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I noticed | Mar 03 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | no matter what it is | Mar 03 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | take real fruit and "sugar" it with, say, splenda | Mar 03 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | it wont work | Mar 03 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | but splenda by itself is fine | Mar 03 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | Splenda in pop works just fine | Mar 03 22:38 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Episode 2 of Season 3 of our little podcast is out! http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/03/03/s03e02-their-purple-moment/ | Mar 03 22:38 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: S03E02 Their Purple Moment | Ubuntu Podcast from the UK LoCo team .::. Size~: 21.41 KB | Mar 03 22:38 |
| DaemonFC | in fact, it tastes just like regular | Mar 03 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | yeah, splenda + a smigin of ace k | Mar 03 22:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | its fine | Mar 03 22:39 |
| MinceR | entirely artificial food is very rare | Mar 03 22:39 |
| MinceR | usually you do combine them | Mar 03 22:39 |
| MinceR | for example, artificial sweetener with artificial and natural aromas :> | Mar 03 22:39 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, salt-based preservatives are killing hundreds of thousands every year | Mar 03 22:39 |
| DaemonFC | due to high blood pressure it causes | Mar 03 22:39 |
| DaemonFC | and atherosclerosis | Mar 03 22:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: we're talking just sweeteners here | Mar 03 22:39 |
| DaemonFC | they pump the food full of it cause it's cheap | Mar 03 22:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | it just doesnt work together | Mar 03 22:39 |
| MinceR | people shouldn't eat so damn much of them, then | Mar 03 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: well, the real problem is the law | Mar 03 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | you HAVE to have so much preservatives | Mar 03 22:40 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, can't really avoid it | Mar 03 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | its nuts | Mar 03 22:40 |
| DaemonFC | it's in EVERYTHING | Mar 03 22:40 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | like, stouffers | Mar 03 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | they make the best frozen food out | Mar 03 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | they invented an incredibly high end flash freezing process | Mar 03 22:40 |
| DaemonFC | oh yeah, frozen dinners are the worst for salt content | Mar 03 22:40 |
| DaemonFC | absolutely | Mar 03 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | but guess what | Mar 03 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | they put salt in | Mar 03 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | salt in a no artifical ingredients food, btw | Mar 03 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | its completely natural | Mar 03 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | and it tastes rather damned good too | Mar 03 22:41 |
| DaemonFC | right, but natural amounts are usually safe | Mar 03 22:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | the only reason theres salt in it at all is because of THE LAW | Mar 03 22:41 |
| DaemonFC | the government keeps wanting to regulate salt, so why don't they set caps already? | Mar 03 22:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | DaemonFC: regulate means to "make regular" | Mar 03 22:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | regulating salt is the last thing we need | Mar 03 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, They could like, have a salt cap and trade where they pay someone in India to not put that much salt in their food, they pay the government extra tax money to oversee the program, and they leave our salt content where it is now | Mar 03 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | that'll work, right? B-) | Mar 03 22:42 |
| DaemonFC | I mean, it stops global warming :D | Mar 03 22:43 |
| MinceR | :D | Mar 03 22:43 |
| *Diablo-D3 facepalms | Mar 03 22:43 | |
| MinceR | actually putting salt in the food isn't a global effect | Mar 03 22:43 |
| MinceR | it doesn't spread through the atmosphere :> | Mar 03 22:43 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, I was attempting humor | Mar 03 22:43 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 22:43 |
| MinceR | i know | Mar 03 22:43 |
| MinceR | and i reacted to the humor first | Mar 03 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | salt and trade laws save American lives | Mar 03 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | pay your taxes! | Mar 03 22:44 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 22:44 |
| Diablo-D3 | dude | Mar 03 22:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | if the government worked | Mar 03 22:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | I'd pay half my wages on taxes | Mar 03 22:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | seriously. I would. | Mar 03 22:45 |
| oiaohm | salt is not just salt. | Mar 03 22:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | argh! oiaohm! shut up! | Mar 03 22:45 |
| MinceR | the government doesn't work and i pay more than half my wages on taxes. | Mar 03 22:45 |
| Diablo-D3 | MinceR: you're doing it wrong | Mar 03 22:46 |
| oiaohm | Particular types of salt don't react well with about 60 percent of the populations blood presure. | Mar 03 22:46 |
| MinceR | so i'd like your deal too, Diablo-D3 | Mar 03 22:46 |
| oiaohm | Just happens to be the most common salt. | Mar 03 22:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | nacl | Mar 03 22:46 |
| oiaohm | Yep nacl | Mar 03 22:46 |
| Diablo-D3 | ye olde common table salt | Mar 03 22:46 |
| oiaohm | Pure is the problem. | Mar 03 22:47 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, ? | Mar 03 22:47 |
| DaemonFC | over half? | Mar 03 22:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | hes doing it wrong, seriously | Mar 03 22:47 |
| DaemonFC | damn | Mar 03 22:47 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: more than half of the money it costs to support a worker goes into taxes and tax-like stuff here | Mar 03 22:47 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, I'll say | Mar 03 22:47 |
| oiaohm | Add in some of the salts that make up natual sea salt and lot of nacl effect disappears. DaemonFC | Mar 03 22:47 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: and then there's VAT | Mar 03 22:47 |
| oiaohm | Opps Diablo-D3 | Mar 03 22:47 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: and most of this money is stolen | Mar 03 22:47 |
| MinceR | some of it is sent to m$ | Mar 03 22:47 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, That's worthy of a revolt | Mar 03 22:47 |
| Diablo-D3 | STOLEN MONIES | Mar 03 22:48 |
| DaemonFC | had you considered that? | Mar 03 22:48 |
| MinceR | some of it is sent to other cults | Mar 03 22:48 |
| oiaohm | Basically we got too good at making it pure. DaemonFC | Mar 03 22:48 |
| oiaohm | Bugger | Mar 03 22:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | QUICKLY, TO THE TEA CAVE, REVOLUTIONARY MAN | Mar 03 22:48 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: the 10 million idiots living in this country accept it and think it's A-OK | Mar 03 22:48 |
| DaemonFC | Diablo-D3, Over half my income in taxes? DAMN STRAIGHT! | Mar 03 22:48 |
| DaemonFC | to the fucking Teamobile! | Mar 03 22:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | NO TAXATION... OR REPRESENTATION EITHER | Mar 03 22:48 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[schestowitz] #Apple Chastised Even by Its Own Advocates for Suing #Linux Using #SoftwarePatents http://ur1.ca/oaah #swpat | Mar 03 22:48 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Apple Chastised Even by Its Own Advocates for Suing Linux Using Software Patents | Boycott Novell .::. Size~: 90.29 KB | Mar 03 22:48 |
| MinceR | i can't change it alone with my current assets | Mar 03 22:48 |
| Diablo-D3 | seriously, if thats representation *point at Congress* I dont want that | Mar 03 22:49 |
| schestowitz | Watch Jobs' sideburns :-) | Mar 03 22:49 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, Try telling them that the average American pays about 15-20% all told | Mar 03 22:49 |
| DaemonFC | see if the idea catches that they're being fucked over | Mar 03 22:49 |
| MinceR | wow, that money going from canonical to asay is doing something after all :> | Mar 03 22:49 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Mar 03 22:50 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: we do have mandatory healthcare though | Mar 03 22:50 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, They bought themselves a columnist? | Mar 03 22:50 |
| schestowitz | It makes him think, MinceR | Mar 03 22:50 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: indeed | Mar 03 22:50 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: no, it makes him advertise another company some of the time | Mar 03 22:50 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, Well, that's a little better then provided your healthcare is OK | Mar 03 22:50 |
| DaemonFC | that costs a fucking fortune here | Mar 03 22:50 |
| DaemonFC | a bad plan will run you $300-$400 a month if you're not in a group plan through your employer | Mar 03 22:51 |
| DaemonFC | group plan costs about $80 a month or so for a decent policy | Mar 03 22:51 |
| schestowitz | confucius sez, Man use brain, not uses Apple cock | Mar 03 22:52 |
| MinceR | lol | Mar 03 22:52 |
| MinceR | well said | Mar 03 22:52 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, The problem is tht everything your employer is paying is money that you're not making | Mar 03 22:52 |
| DaemonFC | which goes to the insurance cartel instead | Mar 03 22:52 |
| MinceR | DaemonFC: i know | Mar 03 22:52 |
| DaemonFC | behind your back of course | Mar 03 22:52 |
| oiaohm | Diablo-D3: Premodern age ye olde common table salt was sea salt. It caught a lot of researchers how important the less than 0.20 percent of contamination of other salts and items are to the effects on blood presure. | Mar 03 22:52 |
| DaemonFC | MinceR, The cartel thrives on people behind stupid and not knowing how much of their pay is really diverted to health insurance | Mar 03 22:53 |
| DaemonFC | now that more people know what it realyl costs, they're pissed | Mar 03 22:53 |
| DaemonFC | *being stupid | Mar 03 22:53 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[ruiseabra] Mário Franco: foram 854M€ vs Mário Lino: foram 900M€. Logo 46M€ ou são trocos para esta gente, ou algo q começa por L e rima com uva... | Mar 03 22:53 | |
| DaemonFC | the get fired and find out that $100 plan is really $600 a month to continue | Mar 03 22:54 |
| DaemonFC | been there | Mar 03 22:54 |
| schestowitz | "RE: @techflash I'm curious what the PR strategy is here. The Microsoft blog post seemed so unnecessarily aggressive an… http://disq.us/d72nj " http://twitter.com/josephtartakoff/statuses/9808364450 | Mar 03 22:56 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: HTTP/1.1 302 FOUND .::. Size~: 0 KB | Mar 03 22:56 |
| schestowitz | ^two MS boosters | Mar 03 22:56 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Twitter / Joseph Tartakoff: RE: @techflash I'm curious ... .::. Size~: 10.24 KB | Mar 03 22:56 |
| DaemonFC | health insurance is like Microsoft only worse | Mar 03 22:56 |
| schestowitz | MAFIAA too | Mar 03 22:56 |
| DaemonFC | their business relies on you not knowing how much the product really cost you | Mar 03 22:56 |
| oiaohm | Not always the case. DaemonFC Our fair trade laws prevents lot of that. What it was here is that the insurance companies were giving volume discounts to companies. Then ripping end users off. Nice breach of fair trade when there was no cost reductions. Ie it cost the same to add the people either way. | Mar 03 22:57 |
| DaemonFC | yours might | Mar 03 22:58 |
| DaemonFC | ours don't | Mar 03 22:58 |
| oiaohm | Question what one is it. | Mar 03 22:58 |
| DaemonFC | Ours is designed to help the villains fuck each and every one of us as hard as possible | Mar 03 22:58 |
| oiaohm | Ie was the company only paying 100 dollars. | Mar 03 22:58 |
| oiaohm | And when you were no longer volume you had to pay full as it was here. | Mar 03 22:58 |
| DaemonFC | hmm, the problem with having an unreleased CD..... | Mar 03 22:59 |
| DaemonFC | there's no tags on FreeDB | Mar 03 22:59 |
| oiaohm | I guess there is nothing in USA law to prevent unfair trade. | Mar 03 23:00 |
| DaemonFC | there are on some things | Mar 03 23:00 |
| *jono has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) | Mar 03 23:00 | |
| DaemonFC | false and deceptive advertising laws | Mar 03 23:00 |
| DaemonFC | the lemon law on car sales | Mar 03 23:00 |
| DaemonFC | stuff like that | Mar 03 23:00 |
| oiaohm | lemon law we still need. | Mar 03 23:00 |
| DaemonFC | the problem is that the insurance companies lie through omission | Mar 03 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | or misrepresenting the facts | Mar 03 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | PROVE it was on purpose | Mar 03 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | you can't, fuck you, game over, the end | Mar 03 23:01 |
| oiaohm | Both get on the wrong side of fair trade. Here. | Mar 03 23:01 |
| DaemonFC | that's how insurance operates | Mar 03 23:01 |
| oiaohm | Now ours likes to berry you under a stack of paper work listing everything. | Mar 03 23:02 |
| oiaohm | And I do mean everything. | Mar 03 23:02 |
| oiaohm | So you will not bother reading it. | Mar 03 23:02 |
| schestowitz | http://arebentisch.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/brusselsblogger-and-bluntness/ | Mar 03 23:02 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Brusselsblogger and bluntness: La Poste « Sköne Oke .::. Size~: 17.05 KB | Mar 03 23:02 |
| oiaohm | Yes some even list the price to go to there office and get a bit of paper photocopied. | Mar 03 23:02 |
| oiaohm | In a medical insurance policy DaemonFC | Mar 03 23:03 |
| DaemonFC | Easytag has Christian Gangsta Rap as an option for genre? | Mar 03 23:03 |
| DaemonFC | That EXISTS? | Mar 03 23:03 |
| oiaohm | Yes it exists scary enough DaemonFC | Mar 03 23:03 |
| DaemonFC | yo schestowitz, Do some freestyling for Jesus, dawg | Mar 03 23:04 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Mar 03 23:04 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Mar 03 23:04 |
| DaemonFC | rap all the way through Leviticus and put some extra oomph on the no shellfish or mixed fibers parts | Mar 03 23:04 |
| DaemonFC | I think that needs called out | Mar 03 23:05 |
| cubezzz | Manna Rap for my Homies! | Mar 03 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | cause I see a lot of people damning themselves each day | Mar 03 23:05 |
| *jono (~jono@ubuntu/member/jono) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 23:05 | |
| cubezzz | or whatever :) | Mar 03 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | putting on their underwear | Mar 03 23:05 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, God hates people that put on clothes | Mar 03 23:06 |
| DaemonFC | how does that fit on a sign? | Mar 03 23:06 |
| DaemonFC | I think I'll go picket Red Lobster with my youth group | Mar 03 23:06 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 03 23:06 |
| oiaohm | http://vodpod.com/watch/216879-eloise-christian-gangster-rap-4 << DaemonFC | Mar 03 23:06 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Eloise - Christian Gangster Rap 4 Video .::. Size~: 47.68 KB | Mar 03 23:06 |
| *schestowitz puts on fig leaf | Mar 03 23:06 | |
| cubezzz | did people really do that? :) | Mar 03 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Gawn luvs them men who pray naked, dawg !! | Mar 03 23:07 |
| cubezzz | or did artists just make that up? | Mar 03 23:07 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: it says it in a book | Mar 03 23:07 |
| schestowitz | Some folk who maybe had an obsession with leaves and genetalia | Mar 03 23:08 |
| cubezzz | wonderful | Mar 03 23:08 |
| schestowitz | They wrote some scrolls about a naked couple starting civilisation | Mar 03 23:08 |
| schestowitz | http://identi.ca/notice/23589786 http://matt.lee.name/super-hacker.html | Mar 03 23:08 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Stefano Maffulli (smaffulli) 's status on Wednesday, 03-Mar-10 09:49:18 UTC - Identi.ca .::. Size~: 9.09 KB | Mar 03 23:08 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Matt Lee — super hacker .::. Size~: 7.4 KB | Mar 03 23:08 |
| cubezzz | I wonder | Mar 03 23:08 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[popey] Ubuntu Forums poll about the new branding.. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1420911 | Mar 03 23:08 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: What do you think of the new Ubuntu branding? - Ubuntu Forums .::. Size~: 93.52 KB | Mar 03 23:08 |
| cubezzz | how long ago is Adam and Eve supposed to be? | Mar 03 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, 5,000 years | Mar 03 23:09 |
| cubezzz | because we know man hunted mammoths | Mar 03 23:09 |
| DaemonFC | thats about how old the Earth is according to my grandmother | Mar 03 23:09 |
| schestowitz | Religion is ashamed of sex | Mar 03 23:09 |
| cubezzz | and the last mammoth was like 10,000 years ago | Mar 03 23:09 |
| schestowitz | In fact, sex is so disgusting that Mary never had any | Mar 03 23:09 |
| cubezzz | what about everything else? | Mar 03 23:09 |
| cubezzz | like all animals? | Mar 03 23:09 |
| cubezzz | even plants | Mar 03 23:10 |
| schestowitz | The books say the birth canal is abhorrent, never mind its reproductive function | Mar 03 23:10 |
| MinceR | in fact, she was conceived without sex | Mar 03 23:10 |
| MinceR | right? | Mar 03 23:10 |
| schestowitz | cubezzz: they are animals | Mar 03 23:10 |
| schestowitz | We are not animals, cubezzz | Mar 03 23:10 |
| cubezzz | that doesn't make much sense | Mar 03 23:10 |
| MinceR | yes we are | Mar 03 23:10 |
| schestowitz | We are made in God's image | Mar 03 23:10 |
| MinceR | oh, according to gospel | Mar 03 23:10 |
| MinceR | right | Mar 03 23:10 |
| schestowitz | So chimps just look "kind of" like God | Mar 03 23:10 |
| cubezzz | lol | Mar 03 23:10 |
| cubezzz | what about spiders? THey look pretty evil | Mar 03 23:10 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, The whole purity pledge crapfest led to girls thinking they were cheating the system and staying virgins by having their boyfriends do them in the butt | Mar 03 23:11 |
| cubezzz | they can be Satan's minions :) | Mar 03 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Defence mechanism | Mar 03 23:11 |
| schestowitz | Snakes too | Mar 03 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | I'm sure the boyfriend went along with that one | Mar 03 23:11 |
| schestowitz | If we don't fear them, then our genes die | Mar 03 23:11 |
| cubezzz | ah, so "doing it in the butt" is more holy? | Mar 03 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | guess so | Mar 03 23:11 |
| DaemonFC | Family Guy lampooned that with Ear Sex | Mar 03 23:11 |
| schestowitz | http://www.prwatch.org/node/8912 | Mar 03 23:12 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: The Latest Obama-Islam Conspiracy Theory | Center for Media and Democracy .::. Size~: 22.97 KB | Mar 03 23:12 |
| cubezzz | it would be nice to know for sure about these things | Mar 03 23:12 |
| cubezzz | computers are so much more straightforward | Mar 03 23:12 |
| DaemonFC | cubezzz, Like I said ,I'm sure the guy didn't argue about that | Mar 03 23:13 |
| cubezzz | Microsoft = Evil, Linux = Good | Mar 03 23:13 |
| schestowitz | http://www.prwatch.org/node/8915 | Mar 03 23:13 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Big Pharma Funds Trips for California Medicaid Officials | Center for Media and Democracy .::. Size~: 23.2 KB | Mar 03 23:13 |
| *oiaohm has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Mar 03 23:13 | |
| cubezzz | spiders are so different from everything else | Mar 03 23:14 |
| cubezzz | one time I tried to learn about prehistoric spiders | Mar 03 23:14 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, Plastic Beach is good so far actually | Mar 03 23:17 |
| DaemonFC | good beat to it | Mar 03 23:17 |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20100226/1638518325.shtml | Mar 03 23:21 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Forwarding A Defamatory Email Is Not Defamation | Techdirt .::. Size~: 44.64 KB | Mar 03 23:21 |
| schestowitz | Plastic Beach? | Mar 03 23:21 |
| DaemonFC | new Gorillaz album that comes out on the 9th | Mar 03 23:22 |
| *DaemonFC has a pre-launch copy | Mar 03 23:22 | |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] this week's best comment on NewsTechnica: http://is.gd/9DpWm I love Americans. | Mar 03 23:23 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Nothing found for 2010 02 27 Socialist-muslim-president-meets-with-atheist-hate-groups-to-destroy-america Comment-page-1 #comment-1349 .::. Size~: 18.86 KB | Mar 03 23:23 |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20100225/1300198311.shtml | Mar 03 23:26 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Man Creates Useful City Parking iPhone App... And City Doesn't Get Upset | Techdirt .::. Size~: 54.11 KB | Mar 03 23:26 |
| schestowitz | http://techdirt.com/articles/20100301/1824288348.shtml | Mar 03 23:28 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Topeka (Sorta) Changes Its Name To Google, In Blatant Suck Up For Fiber | Techdirt .::. Size~: 43.08 KB | Mar 03 23:28 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: they still are around..?? | Mar 03 23:29 |
| DaemonFC | yep | Mar 03 23:29 |
| DaemonFC | haven't released anything in a few years | Mar 03 23:29 |
| schestowitz | http://www.news.iastate.edu/news/2010/mar/vvgeffects | Mar 03 23:29 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: ISU study proves conclusively that violent video game play makes more aggressive kids | www.news.iastate.edu .::. Size~: 14.39 KB | Mar 03 23:29 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: do you know why? | Mar 03 23:29 |
| -BNtwitter/#boycottnovell-[davidgerard] "Ike Turner is the only man who could spend a million dollars at Woolworths" - Tina T. But I think we've found a second: http://is.gd/9Dr0Q | Mar 03 23:29 | |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Rush Limbaugh's Gaudy Fifth Avenue Penthouse Is Now For Sale - Real Estate - Gawker .::. Size~: 70.01 KB | Mar 03 23:29 |
| schestowitz | I'm very interested in the reality of singers, celebs, footballs etc. and how people have misconception about it | Mar 03 23:30 |
| schestowitz | I have many chats about it | Mar 03 23:30 |
| DaemonFC | "Look, it's got a toy! I want a #4, a #7, and throw in a plastic dildo!" | Mar 03 23:30 |
| DaemonFC | lmao | Mar 03 23:30 |
| schestowitz | Oh, apropos... | Mar 03 23:30 |
| schestowitz | Mr. Dildo salesman is smearing RMS again | Mar 03 23:30 |
| schestowitz | It's funny that a site that's a leech on BN is actually used as an attack on the FSF | Mar 03 23:30 |
| schestowitz | I guess BN should be privileged :-) | Mar 03 23:30 |
| DaemonFC | comedian | Mar 03 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Mar 03 23:31 |
| DaemonFC | schestowitz, It's a group of people whose identities are well known taking on the persona of a cartoon band | Mar 03 23:32 |
| DaemonFC | it beats Milli Vanilli lip syncing | Mar 03 23:32 |
| schestowitz | http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/viacom-will-take-daily-show-colbert-off-hulu/ | Mar 03 23:35 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Error processing the URL: .::. Size~: 0 KB | Mar 03 23:35 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: fatbot slim hardly ever showed up | Mar 03 23:35 |
| schestowitz | *boy | Mar 03 23:35 |
| DaemonFC | Well, Gstreamer can read from ALAC | Mar 03 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | I converted from ALAC to FLAC | Mar 03 23:37 |
| DaemonFC | damn Crapple fanboys | Mar 03 23:38 |
| *bruce89 (~bruce89@78.33.73.43) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 03 23:40 | |
| schestowitz | zoobab: http://techdirt.com/articles/20100301/0202228334.shtml | Mar 03 23:41 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Intellectual Ventures Lending Its Patents To Members To Sue Others | Techdirt .::. Size~: 48.93 KB | Mar 03 23:41 |
| schestowitz | Fury as council bans library's Christian prayer poster... in case it 'offends other religions' | Mar 03 23:44 |
| schestowitz | Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1254873/Library-sparks-row-banning-Christian-prayer-poster-case-offends-religions.html#ixzz0h9zuQQ7k | Mar 03 23:44 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Library sparks row by banning Christian prayer poster in case it 'offends other religions' | Mail Online .::. Size~: 61.81 KB | Mar 03 23:44 |
| schestowitz | Oh......... | Mar 03 23:44 |
| schestowitz | http://www.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/home/2010/03/body-scanner-refuseniks.html | Mar 03 23:47 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Body scanner refuseniks - Big Brother Watch .::. Size~: 48.12 KB | Mar 03 23:47 |
| schestowitz | We got them in Manc | Mar 03 23:47 |
| schestowitz | We fund this junk whenever we fly | Mar 03 23:48 |
| schestowitz | Price hikes | Mar 03 23:48 |
| schestowitz | Pay to be stripped offof your dignity | Mar 03 23:48 |
| DaemonFC | My rating is 4/5 | Mar 03 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | very good | Mar 03 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Mar 03 23:49 |
| DaemonFC | worth getting | Mar 03 23:50 |
| schestowitz | http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/03/03/1026238/BBC-To-Make-Deep-Cuts-In-Internet-Services?from=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29 " James Murdoch criticized the BBC for providing 'free news' on the internet, " | Mar 03 23:51 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot News Story | BBC To Make Deep Cuts In Internet Services .::. Size~: 167.56 KB | Mar 03 23:51 |
| schestowitz | what rating? | Mar 03 23:52 |
| schestowitz | Not health... | Mar 03 23:52 |
| schestowitz | http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/03/03/0018217/Officials-Sue-Couple-Who-Removed-Their-Lawn | Mar 03 23:53 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Slashdot News Story | Officials Sue Couple Who Removed Their Lawn .::. Size~: 188.56 KB | Mar 03 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/86275402.html | Mar 03 23:53 |
| phIRCe-BNc | Title: Huntington Task Force Presents Cost Cutting Ideas To Mayor | Indiana's NewsCenter: News, Sports, Weather, Fort Wayne WPTA-TV, WISE-TV, CW, and My Network| Local & Regional .::. Size~: 69.29 KB | Mar 03 23:53 |
| DaemonFC | local, but more of our Mayor slashing basic services and making an ass of himself | Mar 03 23:53 |
| schestowitz | Sanyo signed up for exFAT?? When? | Mar 03 23:54 |
| *bruce89 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | Mar 03 23:54 | |
| DaemonFC | "They say the police department is overstaffed by ten patrolmen and would like to see the positions trimmed." | Mar 03 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | OMG SCORE!!!!!! | Mar 03 23:55 |
| DaemonFC | HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! | Mar 03 23:55 |
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