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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 6th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:41 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Enter the IRC channel now

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dsmith_ http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/press… Aug 06 06:41
dsmith_ IBM Pushing Microsoft-Free Desktops Aug 06 06:42
dsmith_ :) Aug 06 06:42
schestowitz That’s the big news today. I wish it was Free software. They sell proprietary software. Swapping of ‘masters’. Aug 06 06:42
dsmith_ yea Aug 06 06:43
dsmith_ did you see my santayana ref? Aug 06 06:43
schestowitz It makaes it easier to justify a move to GNU/Linux in the enterprise though. Rather than recommend some company from Isle of Mann you can talk about Big Blue and tell the boss that you bring in Linux and Lotus(C). Aug 06 06:43
schestowitz (TM) I mean. Aug 06 06:44
schestowitz Yes, I have. Novell too is refusing to learn from the past. Aug 06 06:44
dsmith_ heh Aug 06 06:44
dsmith_ doom on them Aug 06 06:45
schestowitz Jim Allchin, Platform Group Vice President at Microsoft: “”We need to slaughter Novell before they get stronger….If you’re going to kill someone, there isn’t much reason to get all worked up about it and angry. You just pull the trigger. Any discussions beforehand are a waste of time. We need to smile at Novell while we pull the trigger.”” Aug 06 06:45
dsmith_ sold out Aug 06 06:45
dsmith_ I’ve read that before Aug 06 06:45
schestowitz He was brought to court some months ago over the Vista fiasco. Aug 06 06:46
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schestowitz Another blow  to Novell http://www.thevarguy.com/200… IIRC, the guy who just left only joined under a year ago. I’ll need to check my notes. Aug 06 07:46
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schestowitz “After roughly 90 days on the job, Novell’s new VP of Global Channel Sales, Pat Bernard, knows the company has some work to do in order to regain a partner-centric focus — and the trust of former partners.” http://www.crn.com/it-channel/… Aug 06 07:54
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/200… So yes… I remembered correctly and the man left just months after he was appointed. They can’t have people hold a job. Aug 06 07:55
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schestowitz Just got this reply: “IBM Leads Partnership Pushing Desktop Linux [...] And, as has been noted, Lotus symphony is just a proprietary fork of OOo.  So really, Lotus Notes?  Is that going to kill Microsoft on the desktop?  I think not.  Plus it is just trading one master for another. I am not surprised by IBM’s move here – they have everything to gain, but I am not sure why the others are going along.” Aug 06 08:23
schestowitz http://technocrat.net/reply/2008/8/5/47378 Aug 06 08:23
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kentma just looked at the google map picture of my house – I can see when it was taken because of where the pool was and which cars were parked…  the detail is amazing Aug 06 09:38
schestowitz Is it ‘hyperlinkable’? Aug 06 09:40
kentma It’s here:  http://maps.google.co.uk/maps… Aug 06 09:41
schestowitz Wait until those vehicles with on-ground cameras come over. Aug 06 09:43
kentma Ah, they won’t see anything, the hedges are too high for that. Aug 06 09:44
schestowitz Well, they always have aerials otherwise. Who owns these and why are they handed over to Google? How much for and where does the money go? I can remember Google doing something like this in Australia and there was a controversy. Aug 06 09:45
kentma aerials?  no entende! Aug 06 10:07
kentma sorry no entiendo Aug 06 10:07
kentma :-) Aug 06 10:07
schestowitz They have spy-like airplanes or drones take these shots, I think. Aug 06 10:08
kentma aha, you mean aerial shots – I read aerial as antennae and got confused. Aug 06 10:09
schestowitz There’s lot of legalised invasion of privacy these days. Cookies, Phorm, cars publishing photos of your house… Aug 06 10:10
kentma but then, most of this information isn’t really “private” anyway.  Pretty much everyone’s on the electoral role, for example. Aug 06 10:11
kentma roll Aug 06 10:11
schestowitz That data that they mine will be leaked and shared. Some will be misused without people ever realising it. Aug 06 10:12
schestowitz Going by the logic that ‘privacy is dead anyway’, people might as well upload the  medical record of themselves and there family to a public site, not just those services from Google, Microsoft and others. Aug 06 10:13
schestowitz *their Aug 06 10:13
kentma councils have been selling electoral rolls to marketing companies for some time now.  after that, it’s just a question of getting postcode->lat-long mapping from streetmap.co.uk and then overhead pictures from google, then you know all about where people are. Aug 06 10:13
kentma Wait until the UK Gov has managed to get everyone’s DNA on a database which is then leaked to the world. Aug 06 10:14
schestowitz What Google does is similar to what Microsoft said about Java. David Boies: “Microsoft. Microsoft’s argument that says Java would have died anyway is a little bit like saying if somebody shoots you they can defend [themselves] by saying you have cancer.” Aug 06 10:14
kentma Just think how many people will find out that their father is not who they thought it was.  (considered to be 10->25% of people!) Aug 06 10:15
schestowitz Database = leak. It’s only a matter of time. Inside job or security cockup. Aug 06 10:15
kentma In the end, the only practical route is going to be for everything to be public, but the transition period is going to be nasty.  Even then, how many governments will cry “security”, how many companies cry “commercially confidential”? Aug 06 10:16
kentma You can’t even get a list of ingredients in food in many cases. Aug 06 10:16
schestowitz Google blurs faces to protect privacy in Australian Street View – http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.ph… Aug 06 10:17
schestowitz I also found this yesterday: http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index… Aug 06 10:18
schestowitz How to carjack a top Google exec, according to Google [...] The NLPC does not state which Google exec the information pertains to, but media outlets around the world are reporting that it is the home of Google co-founder Larry Page. The photos are followed by Google Earth-enabled information including the distance from the street to the front door, and the optimal driving route the exec would follow to arrive at Google’s Mountain V Aug 06 10:18
schestowitz iew headquarters, complete with photos of every intersection, stop sign and traffic lights en route.” Aug 06 10:18
kentma I think that it’s essential, otherwise how many people will get caught out being somewhere they shouldn’t! Aug 06 10:18
kentma I saw the article… Aug 06 10:18
schestowitz I’m about to post something about Novell’s latest blow. Aug 06 10:19
schestowitz Doug sent some interesting thing which I can’t get my head around: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/… Aug 06 10:24
schestowitz “Under one initiative dubbed the Microsoft Active Protections Program (MAPP), Redmond will provide security providers with detailed information about upcoming updates .. MAPP is only open to companies that offer a commercial product to Microsoft customers against network- or host-based attacks. Authors of attack kits are not eligible” Aug 06 10:24
schestowitz He then writes: “I assume that excludes Open Source, GPL, security developers.” Aug 06 10:24
schestowitz FTA: “The restrictions on who gets the information makes sense, given the potential for abuse should it fall into the wrong hands” Aug 06 10:24
schestowitz “If only I could believe that was their only motive. I can imagine the the BullShession where they discussed how to dilute and marginalize the Open Source sector. How soon will some pretend thrir party publish studies showing how non-commercial Open Source security are worse than the MS certified ones.” That sounds a bit like the  EULA’s nerve. Aug 06 10:25
kentma considering how amazingly insecure Windows is, and how well exploited it is, “security by obscurity” can clearly be said to have failed.  Any further secrecy is for commercial gain. Aug 06 10:28
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kentma mms://audio.bl.uk/media/services/reading/ admissionspolicy.wma Aug 06 11:08
kentma http://www.bl.uk/services/readi… Aug 06 11:08
kentma The British Library’s admissions policy in, guess what?  Windows Media Format. Aug 06 11:08
schestowitz Hardly surprising, but it warrants a complaint unless they make more options available. They tell you to buy software from a convicted abuser just to view your own assets. That abuser is also a partner of Adam et al. Aug 06 11:10
kentma The audio actually talks about new technology and protecting the interests of the future, but in WMA! Aug 06 11:10
schestowitz Microsoft wants to be part of “the interests of the future” It’s the same in the Library of Congress in the US. In the US, Microsoft /paid/  them 3 million to do it. I don’t know about the BL, but someone should investigate this just as they did with the BBC. Aug 06 11:11
kentma It does appear very suspicious. Aug 06 11:12
schestowitz OOXML is another issue. There you have /future/ access being dependent on code Microsoft won’t share with anyone. Aug 06 11:13
kentma Hopefully, as Microsoft are walking away from OOXML, so the BL and others will have to do the same. Aug 06 11:13
schestowitz They don’t walk away from it. They are faking a defeat to please and soften their critics. Aug 06 11:14
kentma You think that they still have plans for OOXML? Aug 06 11:15
schestowitz Oh yeah! They bragged about it in the press just a week ago. I’ll find you a post about it. Aug 06 11:16
kentma ah, okay… Aug 06 11:17
schestowitz It’s mentioned in part of:  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07… http://boycottnovell.com/2008… http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07/… Aug 06 11:19
kentma /me off for a while – c u l8r Aug 06 11:29
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schestowitz Vexorian has just left a good comment in Slashdot (pointed out by Slashdot): http://tech.slashdot.org/comments… Aug 06 12:29
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kentma Well, we can see the new Microsoft push, and no doubt the cola trolls will be repeating it very soon, and it’s:  “increasing openness at Microsoft”. Aug 06 13:35
schestowitz Enough people realise that it’s fake, but not the right people (technical versus decsion-making) Aug 06 13:36
ZiggyFish maybe everyone is jumping ship now, so now, they need to fill them positions Aug 06 13:37
ZiggyFish ;) Aug 06 13:37
schestowitz I see that Timmy posted a challenge to me over at COLA. He’s still attacking ODF (done this for ages). In Groklaw right now: “The report also suggests that Microsoft’s recent publication of protocol documentation for its core products could have an overall damaging effect on the company. “The availability of protocol licenses may enable competitors to develop software products that better mimic the functionality of Microsoft’s own Aug 06 13:37
schestowitz products which could result in a reduction in sales of our products.”” [PJ: Still think Microsoft wants to be interoperable?] Aug 06 13:37
schestowitz ZiggyFish: referring to that last blog post? Aug 06 13:38
ZiggyFish referring to kentma’s post Aug 06 13:38
ZiggyFish sorry, read his post wrongly Aug 06 13:39
schestowitz Microsoft Jack is now attacking Linux phones: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008… Aug 06 13:39
ZiggyFish I read his post as – Increasing openings at Microsoft Aug 06 13:42
schestowitz IFG pwned: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_… “In both cases, it’s still mildly ironic to see IDG making money with open source…but paying money to Microsoft.” They used to have anti-Linux ads in LinuxWorld, too. Aug 06 13:42
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schestowitz This related to an earlier discussion: http://www.schneier.com/blog/a… . Nonchalantly: “The TSA is unhappy.” Aug 06 15:42
schestowitz Funny headline: Microsoft, Google and Yahoo Agree To Code of _Conduct_ ( http://www.newsfactor.com/news/Busin… ). It should really state “MISconduct”. It’s just like PARTIOT ACT, enablement, Trusted Computing, Genuine advantage. How is suppression about conduct? Aug 06 16:54
schestowitz Possibility of debt for Microsoft: http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersNe… Aug 06 16:59
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_Doug Whats happening on Digg ? Aug 06 17:06
schestowitz Can’t participate peacefully anymore. Gremlins everywhere. Gary and the gang are to blame. Aug 06 17:06
_Doug Do you have a link ? Aug 06 17:07
schestowitz Yes, but it’s abuse, so better not to give it visibility. As kentma said earlier, the issue is that if you leave one site/forum and relocate to another, this does not revolve the issue. The Munchkins just proceed to ruining other fora and in that sense achieve their goal. Aug 06 17:08
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*Now talking on #boycottnovell Aug 06 17:09
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged) Aug 06 17:09
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Wed Jun 4 08:34:16 2008 Aug 06 17:09
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel Aug 06 17:09
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz Aug 06 17:09
schestowitz Oops. Aug 06 17:09
schestowitz Mised anything? Aug 06 17:09
schestowitz *missed (I hit the wrong keys again) Aug 06 17:09
_Doug nope .. Aug 06 17:10
schestowitz Check this out: http://business.smh.com.au/business/microso… Aug 06 17:16
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schestowitz http://www.computerworld.com/action/arti… Another Microsoft General Manager leaves very suddenly. This could be related to http://www.bloomberg.com/apps… Aug 06 17:32
Tallken hi schestowitz, have an article for ya, non related with IT but with Bill Gates as a person Aug 06 17:34
Tallken Probably you’ll want to keep it off the site since we want to defend FOSS againt MS moves which aren’t beneficial to software world Aug 06 17:35
schestowitz What’s the article? Sounds promising. Aug 06 17:35
Tallken and not attack Bill Gates just because he seems to be lying Aug 06 17:36
Tallken I’m still reading the article to be sure of the contents Aug 06 17:36
schestowitz I’d love to find evidence that Bill knows Baystar or Golbfarb. Aug 06 17:37
Tallken who? Aug 06 17:37
Tallken Anyway, here it is, as I said not IT related Aug 06 17:37
Tallken Making Capitalism More Creative -> http://www.time.com/time/busines… Aug 06 17:38
Tallken The Creative Capitalism Roundtable -> http://www.time.com/time/busine… Aug 06 17:38
Tallken The Audacity of Bill Gates -> http://www.time.com/time/mag… Aug 06 17:38
Tallken I don’t know if you know them already, they are from Jul 31 Aug 06 17:38
schestowitz I didn’t read them. It seemed like glorification fluff (Times). Aug 06 17:39
schestowitz *LOL* “Conflict-of-interest note: I worked for Microsoft for seven years, and my wife Patty Stonesifer is a senior adviser to the Gates Foundation after 11 years as its CEO” Aug 06 17:40
Tallken :P Aug 06 17:41
schestowitz It’s a full-page advert. They make it seem like there’s drama and conflict, but it’s all just for lifting Gates’ image. A lot of the press does this using Microsoft’s ‘moles’ or at Microsoft’s command. Same with Ramji and the other ‘good cops’ they try to build. Aug 06 17:42
Tallken well the sad part is that I saw the links in a yet-to-be-officially-born political party’s blog Aug 06 17:44
schestowitz It was also in Slashdot (now sponsored by Microsoft). Aug 06 17:44
Tallken LOL?? Aug 06 17:44
Tallken didn’t know that Aug 06 17:45
schestowitz I was warned some months ago that Microsoft uses Ballmer to play good cop, bad cop. See this new one too: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-so…” (Did the bad cop gremlins get at Microsoft’s annual report?) Aug 06 17:45
Tallken though zdnet was microsoft’s ? Aug 06 17:56
schestowitz Yes, that too, but not directly. Aug 06 17:57
schestowitz I think it would be great if someone blogged Microsoft’s financial games. Would that be possible, I wonder… they also have all sorts of shells… and the Gates Foundation throws a lot of money at all sorts of interests, including newspapers and other media companies (TV). Aug 06 17:57
Tallken I liked specially of the fact Vista sales including XP sales in that MS program that allowed people to downgrade ROFL Aug 06 17:59
Tallken where did I read that? was it in your blog? Aug 06 17:59
schestowitz I wrote about that too, but so have others. I think that InfoWeek broke the news, which then reached the Inquirer. They use many such lies, but it’s hard to catch. I could give examples… other than the channel-stuffing that’s a  religion at Microsoft. Aug 06 18:01
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*Now talking on #boycottnovell Aug 06 18:01
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged) Aug 06 18:01
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Wed Jun 4 08:34:16 2008 Aug 06 18:01
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel Aug 06 18:01
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz Aug 06 18:01
schestowitz Oops (wrong key again). Paste here if I missed a message. :-S :-S Aug 06 18:02
Tallken lol nope, said nothing :) Aug 06 18:02
Tallken BTW, are you using smuxi? (kidding with ya ;) ) Aug 06 18:02
_Doug IBM is releasing a Linux desktop with Canonical/Ubuntu, Novell, and Red Hat .. Aug 06 18:12
_Doug http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/08/0… Aug 06 18:12
_Doug Not Microsoft !!! Aug 06 18:13
_Doug This is major significant !!! Aug 06 18:13
_Doug is everyone dead in here ? Aug 06 18:21
schestowitz What’s smuxi? Aug 06 18:22
schestowitz It’s bad that they market it as “Microsoft-Free”, Doug. Some people will read it like “anti-Microsoft” and it’s also proprietary, so… basically, none of this is new… IBM just made an announcement out of old news, but lumped in Novell and Canonical. it’s a case of swapping masters… better off using OOo, which come on all these major distros by default. Aug 06 18:25
_Doug Smuxi: a new IRC client – Miguel de Icaza Aug 06 18:25
schestowitz Blech. is that the one which he recently bragged about.. from Debian? Aug 06 18:25
_Doug They seems to have given a big mention to Notes Aug 06 18:26
schestowitz Notes is just like Microsoft, but with a different master. Oh! And ‘standards’. Aug 06 18:27
_Doug “Microsoft-Free”: IBM don’t but the people writing the blog do. Aug 06 18:27
_Doug IBM marketing an IBM PC without winDOS, this is major Aug 06 18:28
schestowitz Microsoft screws Brits and Nikon, so Nikon leaves in anger: http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/_Niko… Aug 06 18:28
schestowitz _Doug: yes, but it’s not news. They made a similar announcement at the beginning of the year but the target was Russia and east Europe. The bait was Red Hat’s Enterprise Desktop (never appeared). Aug 06 18:30
_Doug a Marketing excercise of ‘Live Search’, but what do I win for first prize, and don’t tell me a copy of Vista? Aug 06 18:30
_Doug For second prize, two copies of Vista? Aug 06 18:31
schestowitz To kill 2 MBRs? Aug 06 18:32
_Doug Justin Carmony and the open source advocates hypocrites. Aug 06 18:36
_Doug http://www.justincarmony.com/blog/2… Aug 06 18:36
_Doug Is this it, they must be gettign desperate? Aug 06 18:37
_Doug “Proprietary Companies (Microsoft, IBM, etc) have legally fought Open Source to snuff out competition” – NO, and please don’t include IBM in that group … Aug 06 18:38
schestowitz Haven’t seen that one. This one gets a lot of attention now though: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/08/… Aug 06 18:38
schestowitz It’s related to the whole ‘choice’ thing (the choice to help defeat or slow down FOSS) Aug 06 18:39
Tallken schestowitz, http://creativecapitalismblog.com/ , recommended by the author of the same blog post that pointed me to those 3 Times articles; but this one os worth reading Aug 06 18:45
Tallken and yes, smuxi is Mono based, just kidding with ya :) Aug 06 18:45
_Doug exit(0); Aug 06 19:35
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Tallken schestowitz, you there? Aug 06 23:45
Tallken why is this gone? Microsoft, Novell, Mono and the More Expensive GNU Aug 06 23:45
Tallken …to change GNU/Linux Aug 06 23:45
Tallken Boycott Novell – 10:58 PM (49 minutes ago) Aug 06 23:45
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    The European Patent Office, accused by a former president who was female of an “alphamale” issue, treats women poorly; incidentally, she wasn’t just the only female president in a ~25 year period but also the only non-French president in that same period (EPO diversity is a sad farce)

  26. Links 23/09/2022: PeerTube 4.3 and GNOME Report

    Links for the day

  27. Links 23/09/2022: EuroBSDcon 2022 Ahead, PowerDNS Recursor 4.5.11, 4.6.4 and 4.7.3 Out

    Links for the day

  28. IRC Proceedings: Thursday, September 22, 2022

    IRC logs for Thursday, September 22, 2022

  29. Links 22/09/2022: ExTiX 22.9, Rust 1.64.0, Weston 11.0.0, New Mesa, and OpenCL 3.0.12

    Links for the day

  30. Microsoft Will Soon be Unlisted in Netcraft's Web Survey (Due to Minuscule, Negligible Market Share)

    A few hours ago this was released by Netcraft; it seems clear that Netcraft’s tables already omit Microsoft in all except 2, where Microsoft is placed last and rapidly loses share (it’ll fall out of sight soon)

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