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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 25th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:02 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Enter the IRC channel now

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schestowitz twitter: just noticed this one: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.l…   The thread has been hijacked by nothing but trolls. Watch how they attack the messenger (you) by saying something about comment ratings (which they typically game… they do the same thing in Digg). Aug 25 07:08
schestowitz Still 4 Munchkins in Digg modding down every single comment of mine. Most recent comments: http://digg.com/linux_unix/3_Must_H… http://digg.com/linux_unix/64_Stu… Aug 25 07:29
schestowitz Microsoft Jack advertises in his blog: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo… Aug 25 08:11
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baijum The link to wiki page at bottom is pointing to a different page here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/24/prot… Aug 25 09:07
schestowitz Yes, I realised this. Anivar sent it to me like this. It’s part of the press release, apparently. Aug 25 09:07
baijum oh. actually that is another campaign conducted earlier (which you have covered before) Aug 25 09:08
schestowitz Oh, wait… Aug 25 09:09
baijum The current label is correct but not the href Aug 25 09:09
schestowitz Which link is *that*? Aug 25 09:09
baijum http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Say_No_T… Aug 25 09:11
baijum ^^^ label Aug 25 09:11
baijum and href also should be same Aug 25 09:11
baijum oh. the press release PDF link is also wrong :( Aug 25 09:11
schestowitz Oh, I see… I copied that with the mistake. Aug 25 09:11
schestowitz My guess is that they reused/used as template the previous press release from OOXML protests. Aug 25 09:13
baijum there is every chance, the location and most of the campaigners also were same Aug 25 09:14
schestowitz There were over 100 of them I’m told.. Aug 25 09:15
*benJIman waves from suse offices. Aug 25 09:22
schestowitz Germany? Aug 25 09:23
benJIman Yes. Aug 25 09:24
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schestowitz http://talkback.zdnet.com/5… Aug 25 10:55
trmanco http://www.computerworlduk.com/toolb… Aug 25 11:01
schestowitz Yes, the ‘mafia’ is still trying to change laws because it can’t compete based on merit. Aug 25 11:03
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anivar schestowitz:  Thanks for the great coverage Aug 25 11:25
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twitter Good morning.  The trolls have been busy?  Going to look. Aug 25 15:03
schestowitz Well, I commented above. Later I just weaved this in with the latest BN post. Aug 25 15:05
twitter They are more active and obvious at Slashdot.  I would be lucky to only get four or five trolls per post.  It’s probably audience size and gullibility that guides their effort. Aug 25 15:10
schestowitz There’s a new bunch of scum in USENET today. Aug 25 15:10
schestowitz Intimidation tactics I noticed again 10 seconds ago. Aug 25 15:10
twitter Oh, that’s worse. Aug 25 15:11
schestowitz The Munchkind forge identities of regulars who are anonymous and then post compete details like full names, addresses, tel. #, etc. Aug 25 15:11
schestowitz They unmask people in Linux advocacy forums to get them in trouble or drive them away Aug 25 15:11
twitter Or screw people they don’t like who have no idea it happened. Aug 25 15:11
schestowitz They have done this to 2 people so far today, multiple times even. In general, this has gone on for months and I think it helps them discourage participation. Aug 25 15:12
twitter Yes, that’s the primary intent. Aug 25 15:12
schestowitz I get E-mails from lurkers who are afraid of actually participating actively because of the thuggish behaviour. Aug 25 15:12
twitter Everything they can do to make things suck. Aug 25 15:12
schestowitz I’d rather they would just attack /me/ because at least that keeps the forum going (I don’t really mind the slander much anymore) Aug 25 15:13
twitter ESR warned the community of this. Aug 25 15:13
schestowitz I once googled “how to ruin a forum” Aug 25 15:13
schestowitz I tried to see if some people try to master the skills or not only trolling but also making people scared of taking part. Aug 25 15:13
schestowitz ESR/ Aug 25 15:13
schestowitz ? Aug 25 15:13
schestowitz Where? Aug 25 15:13
twitter They have posted a lot of trolling literature but I don’t think they get much consistent unpaid participation. Aug 25 15:14
MinceR if it was a forum, it could be moderated :> Aug 25 15:14
twitter Oh, ESR, Years ago.  I’ll dig up a link. Aug 25 15:14
schestowitz Ta Aug 25 15:14
schestowitz Oh dear… now they attack Rex using some new nyms, pretty much threatening his with a libel lawsuit for not backing correct statements about Microsoft’s OEM tactics. Aug 25 15:16
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twitter 2004, http://www.catb.org/~esr/hallowe… Aug 25 15:29
twitter ”  The outlines of the next stage in Microsoft’s anti-open-source propaganda campaign are becoming clear” Aug 25 15:29
twitter ” coexistence is not a stable solution for them, it cannot be for us either.  We have to assume that Microsoft’s long-term aim is to crush our culture and drive us to extinction by whatever combination of technical, economic, legal, and political means they can muster” Aug 25 15:30
schestowitz Thanks. I’m seeing it. Aug 25 15:30
schestowitz Anything there about forums or ad hominem? (I’m still reading) Aug 25 15:31
twitter No, just a general warning that the entire culture of free software would be attacked. Aug 25 15:31
schestowitz “Expect Microsoft to ally even more closely with the RIAA and MPAA in making yet another try at hardware-based DRM restrictions “ Aug 25 15:32
twitter He also predicted linking free software to terrorism. Aug 25 15:32
twitter Compare to this internal M$ doc from about the same time.  http://iowa.gotthefacts.org/01… Aug 25 15:33
schestowitz I also expect a serious effort, backed by several billion dollars in bribe money (oops, excuse me, campaign contributions), to get open-source software outlawed on some kind of theory that it aids terrorists. We can only defeat that by making sure that national governments become so attached to open-source code that their military men and bureaucrats will short-stop the bribed legislators, rather than let their vital infrastructure Aug 25 15:34
schestowitz be outlawed. Aug 25 15:34
twitter They know that FUD and intimidation are all they have left. Aug 25 15:34
schestowitz So, in essence “Call ‘them’ the terrorists, not the monopolist that bribes and whatever.” Aug 25 15:35
twitter You see what they did to Peter Quinn. Aug 25 15:35
schestowitz Yes. Aug 25 15:35
schestowitz And others. Aug 25 15:35
twitter When honest government people call for action, M$ smears them and dismantles their department. Aug 25 15:35
schestowitz Or… bribes it (Nigeria for example). Aug 25 15:36
twitter This should cause more people to revolt.  The more horrible the enemy the more they should be fought. Aug 25 15:36
schestowitz There’s a good document about Microsoft’s call for “Jihad”. It’s referring to merciless marketing. Aug 25 15:36
twitter They want to intimidate, but their own studies have shown it backfires. Aug 25 15:37
schestowitz I showed this to Marc Fleury and believe it or not, he didn’t buy it. He made a deal with Microsoft in the past. He has an XBox. Aug 25 15:37
schestowitz Well, they produce studies by proxy. Aug 25 15:37
schestowitz Yankee, Burton, Enderle… or whatever straw man/punchbag they can pay enough to take the insult. Aug 25 15:37
schestowitz Lots here: v Aug 25 15:38
schestowitz http://www.groklaw.net/pdf/Comes-3096.pdf Aug 25 15:38
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twitter Ah yes, the slog doc. Aug 25 15:47
twitter It’s pretty good evidence of M$ tactics.  ESR predicted these would be turned against free software.  Now we see how they have done it. Aug 25 15:48
twitter Along the lines of the advertisement you noticed, there’s also the M$ AmbASSador program at US Universities that’s been going on for years now. Aug 25 15:51
twitter Besides paying people to show their products in public, they target and corrupt free software advocates. Aug 25 15:52
schestowitz Any URl about this? I covered this university corruption thing before. Aug 25 15:56
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/… Aug 25 15:57
schestowitz Some here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/30/m… Aug 25 15:57
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schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/19… Aug 25 15:58
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/27/m… Aug 25 15:58
schestowitz The above have evidence of Microsoft corrupting academics. Aug 25 15:58
twitter No url, sorry, it comes from personal observation. Aug 25 16:06
PetoKraus hmm, new gNewSense… Aug 25 16:09
PetoKraus i guess i am gonna try it (as a livecd ofc) Aug 25 16:10
PetoKraus just to see what percentage of my HW is supported by OSS drivers Aug 25 16:10
schestowitz Gobuntu will have it as an installation to all, assuming Jono Bacon was right. Aug 25 16:11
schestowitz But it won’t be called Gobuntu I suspect. Aug 25 16:11
twitter A good distribution, like Debian, will tell if non free modules have tainted your system.  VRMS will tell you about your software. Aug 25 16:12
twitter The only thing I ever have problems with is wifi in desktops. Aug 25 16:12
PetoKraus twitter: well, Debian is not completely free either Aug 25 16:13
twitter Sure, but it will tell you when it is not. Aug 25 16:13
PetoKraus e.g. closed-sourced ucodes for wifi Aug 25 16:13
PetoKraus no, it actually won’t Aug 25 16:13
twitter really? Aug 25 16:13
PetoKraus http://www.gnewsense.org/inde… Aug 25 16:13
twitter bah, what FUD. Aug 25 16:14
PetoKraus FUD? Aug 25 16:14
twitter the non free section is not turned on by default. Aug 25 16:14
PetoKraus yes on ubuntu Aug 25 16:15
PetoKraus not on debian Aug 25 16:15
PetoKraus as stated there Aug 25 16:15
twitter bullshit. Aug 25 16:15
twitter to get non free you have to put the term “nonfree” next to main in your /etc/apt/sources.list Aug 25 16:15
twitter the binary blob issue is one I’m less familiar with. Aug 25 16:16
twitter The kernel may be released with non free modules but they scream “taint” when you load them and I don’t think they load by default. Aug 25 16:20
trmanco what is PR? Aug 25 16:23
PetoKraus you’re false Aug 25 16:24
schestowitz I think Debian loads some non-Free s/w. Else, gNewSense would not be needed. Aug 25 16:24
PetoKraus that’s true for debian Aug 25 16:24
PetoKraus but not for ubuntu Aug 25 16:24
PetoKraus ubuntu enables non-free by default Aug 25 16:24
PetoKraus (flash preinstalled is prime example) Aug 25 16:24
twitter No, GNUSense has a place as a distribution. Aug 25 16:24
PetoKraus well, gnewsense = gnusense Aug 25 16:25
trmanco http://www.computerworlduk.com/toolb… Aug 25 16:25
twitter Ubuntu contains free software that can’t be distributed in the US due to the DMCA, so it’s a good place to start. Aug 25 16:25
twitter It’s also nice to have a distribution that does not waste it’s time and resources with non free software and binary blobs. Aug 25 16:26
PetoKraus so, what’s your point in this discussion then? Aug 25 16:27
PetoKraus there was no FUD on the page Aug 25 16:27
twitter That does not make Debian some kind of Novell like sneak thief. Aug 25 16:27
trmanco http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsst… Aug 25 16:27
twitter The FUD is implying that debian does things without you knowing about it. Aug 25 16:27
PetoKraus well, is it true, or is it not? Aug 25 16:28
PetoKraus yes, it does them, so? Aug 25 16:28
twitter Show me where Debian will load a binary blob by default, without warning. Aug 25 16:29
twitter In other words, prove the FUD and I’ll take it seriously. Aug 25 16:29
PetoKraus show me, where is written such a thing on gNewSense page Aug 25 16:29
twitter If you did not believe such a thing, why would you say you need GNUSense to find out “what percentage of my HW is supported by OSS drivers” Aug 25 16:32
twitter :) Aug 25 16:33
PetoKraus because it’s easier way? Aug 25 16:33
PetoKraus debian doesn’t have a livecd. Aug 25 16:33
PetoKraus afaik ^^ Aug 25 16:33
twitter http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/ Aug 25 16:35
twitter I wonder if it comes with VRMS Aug 25 16:36
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Tallken Article: Red Hat, Fedora servers infiltrated by attackers < http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/po… > Aug 25 17:10
schestowitz Is it really news by now? :-) Aug 25 17:12
schestowitz Bear in mind that Microsoft’s hasn’t a good track record, either. Aug 25 17:12
Tallken lol just read it now Aug 25 17:14
Tallken my idea was to keep things balanced Aug 25 17:14
Tallken doesn’t mind the attack, Fedora isn’t bundling up several bugs in a disclosure just to count the number of disclosures later Aug 25 17:14
schestowitz Did they find the cause? I haven’t looked yet. Aug 25 17:15
Tallken if they did, it isn’t mentioned in that article Aug 25 17:16
Tallken btw schestowitz, Ballmer is coming to Portugal, are you interested in the link? He’s meeting Microsoft International’s boss; AFAIK no meeting with local bodies, government or otherwise Aug 25 17:20
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Tallken schestowitz, ok, the purpose of the visit is also to “establish contacts with business leaders and Portuguese” politicians [mistranslation here, Google fails to add the politicians there] — http://translate.google.pt/translate?u=ht… Aug 25 17:23
schestowitz Thanks, I’m looking now. Aug 25 17:27
schestowitz Nice photo they chose for it. Which company is he working for? :-) Aug 25 17:28
schestowitz I last wrote about Portugal in < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06… > by the way Aug 25 17:29
Tallken ROFL Aug 25 17:29
Tallken @ MS / Novell pic Aug 25 17:30
Tallken thanks for the link, though I had already taken a quick look at it :) Aug 25 17:30
schestowitz Yes, it meets criticism, doesn’t it? Maybe he’ll talk to the minister about those laptops they buy. Aug 25 17:31
Tallken probably lol Aug 25 17:31
Tallken to ensure they run Windows Aug 25 17:31
schestowitz He’ll want to ensure that they run Windows, not GNU/Linux. Also, schools in Portugal have the youngsters exposed to OOo, based on what I’ve read. Aug 25 17:31
schestowitz I bet he’ll bring a big suitcase… well, or maybe just a check book with a high level of thickness. Aug 25 17:32
Tallken hum don’t know, didn’t use the school’s computers Aug 25 17:32
Tallken they had XP though Aug 25 17:32
schestowitz OOo runs on XP too. Aug 25 17:32
schestowitz It’s the applications layer that makes a migration to GNU/Linux very smoouth. Aug 25 17:33
Tallken ya but I can’t remember which Office suite they had Aug 25 17:33
Tallken *office suite Aug 25 17:33
Tallken anyway, me away Aug 25 17:33
schestowitz It was a plan for OOo. That’s where Mcirosoft stepped in. Aug 25 17:36
schestowitz It fought back in two ways, IIRC: (1) laptops for kids; (2) something to do with free PCs (subscription) and maybe some broadband arrangement to cover it. I’d have to look at my notes. Aug 25 17:37
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Tallken Article: Opinion: Why Google has lost its mojo — and why you should care — by Preston Gralla < http://www.computerworld.com/action/ar… > Aug 25 18:18
Tallken Honest review or FUD? Aug 25 18:19
schestowitz Oh no.. Aug 25 18:19
schestowitz Some people say that  Preston Grall is a FUD master. Aug 25 18:19
schestowitz Well, he /did/ say he would try GNU/Linux recently and his new ‘colleague’ SJVN had to correct him for FUD. But he wrote a good OOo review recently, so I don’t know. I did see Enderle publishing some nonsense a few moments ago. Aug 25 18:20
Tallken Ernderle ? who is Enderle ? Aug 25 18:21
schestowitz Just looking now. He has a bone to pick with Google, so he finds some isolated stories to piece together FUD. Aug 25 18:21
schestowitz Enderle is a Microsoft shill of the worst kind because he attacks Linux. For years! Search BN.com for “enderle” to get a taste of that piece of work. Aug 25 18:22
schestowitz Just to assist: http://www.google.com/search?s… Aug 25 18:22
schestowitz http://www.computerworld.com/action/articl…  Tell Nancy Gohring that Android will not support cassette tapes, either. I don’t see what the big deal is. Wi-Fi has leapfrogged Bluetooth, never mind the effect of radiation. Aug 25 18:25
schestowitz I see some other Google FUD today, especially ones to do with intrusion of those vehicle-mounted  cameras. I’m not defending it, but I just see a surge in Google-critical content. Aug 25 18:27
twitter fair and balanced security incident reporting.  GNU/Linux 1.  Winblows billion and billions failed. Aug 25 18:52
twitter It’s like the number under the golden arches. Aug 25 18:52
schestowitz I wrote a post this morning about Microsoft’s systematic lack of disclosure. It seemed like good timing. Aug 25 18:53
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/25/… Aug 25 18:54
schestowitz I published this one when the Debian/OpenSSL incidents was first reported:  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/05/1… Aug 25 18:54
twitter Does anyone still think they can run Windows and not get owned?  In SLOG terms, how many years do people have to sleep with a toot under their pillow before they face reality? Aug 25 18:59
schestowitz Well, Geer and others were gagged and the press still rarely talks about it. I might incite panic. It always amuses me when headlines say that the FBI shut down a botnet of 100,000 machines (recent example). That’s peanuts. It’s like 0.3% of them. Aug 25 19:06
twitter Panic or decisions based on correct information? Aug 25 19:08
twitter It’s not amusing. Aug 25 19:08
schestowitz The latter. It means Windows Quarantine (C). Some people would lose their jobs. Aug 25 19:09
twitter The other day, I installed DOS 6 on an P1 for kicks.  The splash screen talked about file security and AV.  That was from 1993. Aug 25 19:10
twitter Most people would not lose their jobs, except for gross incompetence, if the real M$ security picture were well known.  Someone would have to fix all of those broken computers. Aug 25 19:11
schestowitz I remember the Exchange server next door becoming a zombie. Also see: http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/… Aug 25 19:11
schestowitz Well, they wants to fix it with TC now. You know, exclude FOSS at the same time… Aug 25 19:12
twitter It’s rather common and it’s been the same old story the whole time.  People using Winblows for work routinely face weeks of outage and lost work. Aug 25 19:12
twitter TC? Aug 25 19:13
schestowitz PJ has just put up a lot of the link I had sent her this morning. She also picked the one about the broken update, where Microsoft spins the situation where it left machines remotely compromisable (bad patch). Aug 25 19:13
schestowitz TC = Trusted computing. TPM/ Aug 25 19:14
twitter Oh, that TC.  Good for you and PJ. Aug 25 19:19
schestowitz It’ll be interesting to see if BN.com can get more visits then GL some time in the future. It might raise tensions. Aug 25 19:20
schestowitz This article < http://www.linuxworld.com.au/index.ph… > calls it ‘social engineering’, but a case of _visiting_ a site to become a zombie (classic IE) is o social engineering. It’s ActiveX maybe. It’s bad engineering. Aug 25 19:26
Tallken woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Aug 25 19:26
Tallken wth Aug 25 19:26
Tallken can anyone confirm me that MSN Messenger 9 has compatibility with Google Talk ???? Aug 25 19:27
[H]omer Greetings Comrades :) Aug 25 19:34
[H]omer Been a while Aug 25 19:34
[H]omer What’s new? Aug 25 19:34
Tallken the usual Aug 25 19:35
schestowitz Hey, how is it in ɹʌʃə Aug 25 19:35
[H]omer Dunno, I’m in Scotland :) Aug 25 19:35
schestowitz Where are the packets coming from? Aug 25 19:36
[H]omer VPN proxy to Moscow Aug 25 19:36
schestowitz VPN? Aug 25 19:36
schestowitz Oh, yup. Aug 25 19:36
[H]omer Virtual Private Network Aug 25 19:36
schestowitz About time. Aug 25 19:36
[H]omer Yes, and I’m stayin’ here too Aug 25 19:36
schestowitz Any boy should be given a proxy for the th birthday. It’s a sign of manhood. Aug 25 19:36
[H]omer :) Aug 25 19:36
[H]omer I see your sence of humour has improved Aug 25 19:36
[H]omer *sense Aug 25 19:37
schestowitz Does Dubya user VPN to surf tah Google? Aug 25 19:37
[H]omer No, he just gets the NSA to delete his Emails Aug 25 19:37
schestowitz Or Excahnge. Aug 25 19:37
[H]omer Talking about the no-such-agency, and their pals at the MAFIAA® … screw them – I’m proxied. Sniff my encrypted packets now, ya b’stards ;) Aug 25 19:38
schestowitz A$$ociated Press: “Expert: White House Negligent on E-Mail [...] Rhe White House e-mail troubles began in 2002 with a decision to upgrade electronic message capabilities and move from Lotus Notes to Microsoft Exchange. “ Aug 25 19:38
schestowitz Alan is being hit by Mono boosters right now: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2008/08… Aug 25 19:39
[H]omer He’s definitely one of the good guys Aug 25 19:39
[H]omer I just noticed … you quoted 30 words from the AP … you owe them $600. Get yet wallet out. Aug 25 19:43
schestowitz I know, I know. Aug 25 19:43
schestowitz The invoice will come in the mail. Aug 25 19:43
[H]omer I printed this page and distributed it around the town, for those who probably don’t read the geek news, or *any* news, or don’t even have a PC: Aug 25 19:45
[H]omer http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/19… Aug 25 19:45
[H]omer The reactions have been pretty shocking Aug 25 19:45
[H]omer I don’t think many people realise just how much of a Police State the UK really has become Aug 25 19:46
schestowitz How many pounds per person would that be? Aug 25 19:46
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[H]omer God knows Aug 25 19:46
[H]omer I’m not so much worried about how they pay for it, as the fact that it exists at *all*. Aug 25 19:47
schestowitz I thought about SSLing my connection. I mean, I correspond with my family using Wikis (not what you have in mind) and telephone is now a shared conversation. Not only that… it’s stored indefinitely. Aug 25 19:47
[H]omer I haven’t made or accepted a voice call in nearly three years. Yes really. Aug 25 19:48
[H]omer In fact the ringer is turned off, so I can’t even hear it. Aug 25 19:48
schestowitz British Government: 0.5 million snoop requests in the past year alone, IIRC. That’s a lot of ‘terrorist suspects,’ no? Aug 25 19:48
schestowitz *LOL* Well, that sort of makes sense. I’m like that with television, although I still watch it at the gym and friend’s house… kind of like I use Windows. Aug 25 19:49
schestowitz *friends’ Aug 25 19:49
[H]omer I strongly suspect that the “terrorist” bullshit is not only a government lie, but was in fact *manufactured* by them to begin with. Aug 25 19:49
schestowitz I think it’s a bit of oth. Aug 25 19:50
[H]omer Just as a means of introducing this Surveillance Culture Aug 25 19:50
moparx hey all Aug 25 19:50
[H]omer hey Aug 25 19:50
schestowitz *both. Accentuation of the problems is the key. Opportunistic situation. Aug 25 19:51
schestowitz It doesn’t bother me much, but that too is an interlude to exclusion of ‘unwanted’ technology. Earlier we discussed ‘Trusted’ Computing. Aug 25 19:51
[H]omer Alex Jones had a good analogy for the “terrorist threat”. He compared it to a wasp’s nest being deliberately stirred up to aggravate people. And it’s the government doing the stirring. Aug 25 19:52
schestowitz Is it s video? Text? URL? Aug 25 19:53
schestowitz I’ve seen smear campaigns against those folks. Nasty stuff what they get… Aug 25 19:53
[H]omer Google Video “911: Rise of the Police State” Aug 25 19:53
schestowitz Google Video “911: Rise of the Police Stat Aug 25 19:54
[H]omer yup Aug 25 19:54
schestowitz http://video.google.com/videoplay?do… Aug 25 19:54
schestowitz Though I don’t believe in the 9/11 conspiracy, mind you. Aug 25 19:54
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[H]omer Watch that video, it might change your mind Aug 25 19:54
schestowitz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoDqDvbgeXM Aug 25 19:55
schestowitz Jones et al have something to gain from making it look so. Aug 25 19:55
[H]omer Yeah well, that’s just one guy’s opinion. There’s far too many unanswered questions and inconsistencies about 911 for the “official stories” to be believable. Aug 25 19:59
schestowitz That may be true that many opinions exist. Still, unless there’s a massive precedence of this kind (taking the dive at that scale), it seems more like wishful thinking to some. Aug 25 20:00
[H]omer Nonetheless, the governments’ wet dream of a Surveillance Society is coming true, under the pretext of “terrorism”. Aug 25 20:02
[H]omer And nobody seems to have the power to stop it. Aug 25 20:02
schestowitz Well… Aug 25 20:02
[H]omer Hence the need for VPN Aug 25 20:03
schestowitz That’s one thing. To think they needed such a catalyst for PATRIOT is far fetched. Aug 25 20:03
[H]omer I mean one can’t even take a bloody photo in public now, for God’s sake. Aug 25 20:03
schestowitz They’ll ruin that dream is it’s popularised. Aug 25 20:03
schestowitz Seen my post in COLA about ESR? Aug 25 20:03
[H]omer No, I’ve been away from COLA for a while Aug 25 20:04
schestowitz twitter showed that to me. Halloween Document on calling FOSS communism and terrorism in order to ban or change it. Aug 25 20:04
[H]omer Been busy with various other Civil Rights stuff Aug 25 20:04
[H]omer Really? Aug 25 20:04
[H]omer Link? Aug 25 20:04
schestowitz Wait. Aug 25 20:05
schestowitz Surely, the trolls attacked without minutes (the messenger). Aug 25 20:05
schestowitz http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os… Aug 25 20:05
schestowitz Jones take the piss out of Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrnie…. *LMAO* Aug 25 20:07
[H]omer Been watching various videos of Noam Chomsky … interesting perspectives Aug 25 20:15
schestowitz I trust him more than I trust Jones because he’s a senior and been out there investigating since the 60s, IIRC. He has seen a lot. Aug 25 20:17
schestowitz It’s a good lesson in how to tell the truth without losing credibility (strong language, exaggeration, improper analogies). Rest assured, he too is smeared like nobody’s business. He’s like RMS in a sense… American media keeps its distance from it, but people overseas love him. Aug 25 20:19
[H]omer In particular I like his analogy of modern capitalism to slavery here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HFxYyXGMfZM&NR=1 Aug 25 20:22
schestowitz I’ll take a look. He uses slavery/feminism/sexism/apartheid analogies. It gets past the filter only if Murdock/Gates and other media minions are on vacation or something. Even then, the investments and obedient cronies remain. Just watch how Perens struggled to publish the truth about Microsoft and SCO, even when he presents testimonies under oath. Aug 25 20:22
schestowitz *MurdoCH Aug 25 20:22
schestowitz http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/082… They should really stop approaching Gartner for opinions. They let those Gates-sponsors people in suits run the industry with words, instructions, and FUD. Aug 25 20:44
schestowitz http://tinyurl.com/65mzvs Aug 25 20:54
schestowitz http://beranger.org/index.php?p… Aug 25 20:54
*_Doug (i=c17a2faa@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-475a36e4df1d6091) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 25 21:32
trmanco http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/i… Aug 25 21:32
trmanco the second page me seem interesting Aug 25 21:33
trmanco may* Aug 25 21:33
schestowitz Hey, _Doug. Hey, trmanco. Aug 25 21:33
trmanco Hi Aug 25 21:34
schestowitz Yes, I saw this some days ago and talked here about possibilities. Maybe Oracle even… although it’s allergic to Free software development. Aug 25 21:34
trmanco sorry I haven’t been participating in the chat lately these days, been a little busy :P Aug 25 21:35
schestowitz Ashlee Vance, who is now moving from The Reg to NYT, said that Fujitsu would be a good suitor. Aug 25 21:35
trmanco the second page mentions Microsoft on buying Sun Aug 25 21:35
schestowitz What has happened to Sun over the years began happening to Microsoft some years ago. Microsoft may be the next Sun, or SCO… Aug 25 21:36
_Doug Hey there .. Aug 25 21:36
trmanco “Microsoft might want to get more involved in open source. Alternatively, “Microsoft may also view a Sun acquisition as a way to tilt the scales to Windows by phasing out Sun support for Linux,” the 451 Group report says. “ Aug 25 21:36
schestowitz Sun doesn’t even own UNIX and it has OOo. I don’t see why Microsoft would need it. Aug 25 21:36
trmanco to destroy Ooo and the odf format :| Aug 25 21:37
trmanco just like what they did, and are doind to Novell Aug 25 21:37
schestowitz Microsoft is running low on cash in the bank ($26bn left and ~$20 buybacks to be depleted). Aug 25 21:37
trmanco doing* Aug 25 21:37
trmanco yes Aug 25 21:37
trmanco didn’t have enough money to buy out yahoo :P Aug 25 21:37
schestowitz They have possibilities, but I don’t even think the FTC would permit this… unless it was corrupted (which it typically is) Aug 25 21:38
schestowitz They needed to borrow over $20bn for Yahoo. I think Sun was worth $13bn the last time I checked. Aug 25 21:38
schestowitz Novell’s market cap is around $2bn Aug 25 21:38
schestowitz BTW, ODF and Sun are not Microsoft’s main problem. Aug 25 21:39
schestowitz SaaS is a greater threat to them. Aug 25 21:39
trmanco Sun has MYSQL Virtualbox Solaris and Sparc Aug 25 21:39
trmanco SaaS? Aug 25 21:39
schestowitz Google, Zoho… Aug 25 21:39
schestowitz trmanco: true, but what would Microsoft do with MySQL? Make it work only under Windows? It would be forked immediately. Waste of money for MS… Aug 25 21:40
trmanco -> Software as a service? Aug 25 21:40
schestowitz Yes. Aug 25 21:40
trmanco well, Microsoft would simply fork it and then destroy mysql Aug 25 21:40
schestowitz It can’t. It’s not like Zimbra. It’s GPL. Aug 25 21:41
trmanco you are maybe right it probably would be a waste of money Aug 25 21:41
twitter Yeah, but they can disrupt and FUD. Aug 25 21:42
trmanco oh yeah I forgot about GPL :| Aug 25 21:42
schestowitz Microsoft could even fork MySQL now and improve/rebrand it, for what for? The margins of SQL Servers are orders of magnitude higher. Aug 25 21:42
schestowitz Also, MySQL is good for Web apps. Microsoft /hates/ those. And they hate Microsoft. : – ) That’s why they would fork. Aug 25 21:42
twitter The M$ people have claimed all along that Sun and IBM not free software or their obsolete business model are the cause of their problems. Aug 25 21:43
schestowitz Really? Aug 25 21:43
trmanco yep you are right Aug 25 21:43
schestowitz Well, Ballmer said Linux is the #1 threat. Aug 25 21:43
twitter Their disruptive activities on websites tell a different story. Aug 25 21:43
schestowitz IBM is no longer enemy numero uno. Aug 25 21:44
twitter Yes, but they pretend they can defeat it if they nail a few companies. Aug 25 21:44
trmanco he also said that Linux was like a cancer Aug 25 21:44
schestowitz Ozzie later said that FOSS is a greater threat than Google. Aug 25 21:44
schestowitz trmanco: the world would be a better place if Ballmer got a little Linux. Aug 25 21:44
trmanco I little, Give him a full dose Aug 25 21:45
twitter Their whole business model is based on big dumb company being a better programmer than the community.  They have to pretend the success of GNU/Linux is due to IBM, Sun and others. Aug 25 21:45
twitter They said it at the SCO trial. Aug 25 21:45
trmanco maybe the little penguin would start putting some good sense into his brain Aug 25 21:45
twitter They say it when they attack OO Aug 25 21:45
schestowitz They brainwashd some people with this. Aug 25 21:45
schestowitz Asay tells me that too… Aug 25 21:46
twitter Asay? Aug 25 21:46
schestowitz That without the big corps, Linux would be nowhere. I guess he never heard of Debian. Aug 25 21:46
schestowitz Asay, yes… the man who hates Linux and loves Mac and ‘open source’ Aug 25 21:46
twitter Or wikipedia Aug 25 21:46
twitter or internet archive Aug 25 21:46
schestowitz Wikipedia has elites, just like Debian. They are like a virtual volunteer corp Aug 25 21:47
twitter When does Asay tell you these things? Aug 25 21:47
twitter Wikipedia, Debian and other projects are self organizing and use no force. Aug 25 21:47
schestowitz When he says shit about GNU/Linux and I mail him. He drinks the Kool-Aid. He thinks everything from Forbes is words to be carved in stone. Aug 25 21:48
twitter The reward comes from the task and the collective results. Aug 25 21:48
twitter Got a link to this Asay person? Aug 25 21:48
twitter Forbes, ha ha. Aug 25 21:48
twitter It’s kind of like Playboy. Aug 25 21:49
schestowitz But… butt… Microsoft is ‘king of computing’ Aug 25 21:49
schestowitz Over 90% of all computers (*cough cough* Desktop? What source? Net Apps?) Aug 25 21:49
twitter Where does this joker write that you run into it and feel compelled to ask him his opinions? Aug 25 21:50
schestowitz Forbes is like Hustler, only for ‘adulter’ adults with more money than potence. Aug 25 21:50
schestowitz He writes for CNET that’s the thing. Aug 25 21:50
schestowitz It’s a Microsoft media portal, owned by Paul Allen (Micfrosoft co-founder). They do some Mac too and it reaches news feeds, so it annoys me when Asay repeats the Big Lie he reads.. Aug 25 21:51
twitter Broadcast has been very bad for democracy.  The internet is starting to restore balance and decentralize power built up over a century.  That is why we are headed to a police state. Aug 25 21:51
twitter CNET should just be another web site. Aug 25 21:52
schestowitz Yes, they suffer Aug 25 21:53
schestowitz Sacked 10% of the staff recently. Aug 25 21:53
twitter Yet there’s more internet news than ever. Aug 25 21:53
schestowitz Ziff Davis? Gone. Bankrupt. Some popular magazine quit paper and now prostitute themselves with Microsoft ads on Linux content. Aug 25 21:53
schestowitz I used to write for Jupitermedia, but not anymore because of those Microsoft ads I can’t stand. Aug 25 21:54
twitter It’s taking time for people to find new sources of news and entertainment but they are doing it. Aug 25 21:55
twitter Telco and broadcasters are doing everything they can to stop it. Aug 25 21:55
schestowitz Democratization and decommoditisation of knowledge and information. Reports are shared among peers/commons, not producers (few elites) and ‘consumers) Aug 25 21:55
schestowitz RMS said years ago that people should drop media as a source and just subscribe to blobs they can trust. Aug 25 21:56
twitter He’s right. Aug 25 21:56
twitter again. Aug 25 21:56
schestowitz Well, he said this in 2005 at the latest. Aug 25 21:56
schestowitz Right not I just write a lot in my own blogs. I can’t stand working for editors who chop off bits that are ‘too’ critical of a monopoly abusers, DESPITE court evidence supporting what I write. Aug 25 21:57
twitter Editors that don’t provide truth ruin their credibility. Aug 25 21:58
schestowitz Here’s how it works. At the top you have some Murdoch or investor like Gates and below you have some obedient editors (‘yes men’) shooting down things they don’t like. That’s mainstream media for ya! Walla! Aug 25 21:59
twitter They don’t give you enough time or the tools to research either, do they? Aug 25 22:00
schestowitz What do you mean? Please elaborate. Aug 25 22:00
schestowitz Travel and all? Aug 25 22:01
twitter This was my general impression back when I took a journalism class. Aug 25 22:01
twitter the motto was “desperate for type” Aug 25 22:01
schestowitz These days, journalists sit on an armchair  and read what other journalists write, then repeat them (and the corporate-funded PR people, e.g. Gartner). Aug 25 22:01
_Doug Well yea .. tel me something I don’t know .. Aug 25 22:02
twitter Editors want column inches.  That gives the reporter time only for the most superficial of research. Aug 25 22:02
twitter They also thought that the average person only had 15 minutes a day for news. Aug 25 22:03
_Doug The ‘news’ is written by some PR department and then distributed .. editors like this, as it saves them from having to type .. :) Aug 25 22:03
schestowitz Yes, “just send me E-mails” attitude. Aug 25 22:03
_Doug Bit it’s the same ‘news’ all day, on al lthe channels, the exact same news, only spoken by different heads .. :) Aug 25 22:04
twitter Higher quality blogs prove that average was only there due to the poor quality “news” that was offered. Aug 25 22:04
schestowitz The smart ones read many blogs. Aug 25 22:04
twitter Yes, things are changing. Aug 25 22:04
schestowitz Katherine Noyes. Aug 25 22:04
schestowitz ECT Aug 25 22:04
schestowitz She published some good article about Linux yesterday. Aug 25 22:04
_Doug Trouble the Media is producing its own pretend blogs .. Aug 25 22:05
schestowitz That said, I was warned that ECT stole Linux Insider from someone else. That’s when it started with the Enderle and Didiot FUD. Aug 25 22:05
schestowitz They also give room for Gartenberg (Microsoft shills and former formal evangelist for Microsoft), Murphy and other such stooges) Aug 25 22:06
schestowitz _Doug: they don’t have the capacity to drown out the rest. Aug 25 22:06
schestowitz Microsoft Jack is hardly noticed. Aug 25 22:06
_Doug But it does serve to pollute the record and yes there are groups of bloggers hired to keep forums on msg .. Aug 25 22:07
twitter It also screws up search engines. Aug 25 22:07
schestowitz Well, Jack /does/ make a front pages with an attack on Slashdot and those who read it. Aug 25 22:07
twitter Look for “Vista failure” and you find a bunch of Wintel crap. Aug 25 22:08
schestowitz twitter: yes, to an extent. As long as Microsoft is not the gateway (Google is), its known mischiefs of manipulating search results, i.e. information, won’t last. Aug 25 22:08
_Doug I can’t be bothered even mentioning <nul> Aug 25 22:08
twitter All they had to do was publish a few articles with the term in it and boom, those articles took over. Aug 25 22:09
twitter This can be done for any term. Aug 25 22:09
twitter Before they did that the Vista Failure Log was one of the top results. Aug 25 22:10
schestowitz BN.com has strong presence, but the problem is that things on Google News take precedence, I think. Aug 25 22:10
schestowitz Google is also said to be gaming the SERPs a bit. I once (or twice) wrote about how they allegedly used it against ODF. One who reported this to me said it could be former Microsoft employees gaming Google from inside or outside. Aug 25 22:11
schestowitz I can find this if you are interested. Aug 25 22:12
twitter hey, it’s been a while “Vista failure log” digs up this http://www.microsplot.com/blog/2008… Aug 25 22:12
twitter He he, the dude found the “Oh the monopoly” picture.  :) Aug 25 22:13
twitter I think I’ve seen something you wrote about that, a M$ mole or two at Google. Aug 25 22:15
schestowitz I;ve just subscribed to that blog. Aug 25 22:15
schestowitz Nice Firefox pic in the front page BTW. Aug 25 22:15
twitter It’s hard to believe algorithmic tuning could be as effective as the simple crap flood that the Wintel people and old media unleashes every day. Aug 25 22:16
schestowitz Well, the ‘Microsoft’ feed on Google News is very busy. Aug 25 22:17
_Doug So people try and game Google results .. ? Aug 25 22:29
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schestowitz Companies. Aug 25 22:30
_Doug Yea, takes time and effort .. Aug 25 22:33
*moparx has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Aug 25 22:42
_Doug byeee .. Aug 25 22:46
*_Doug has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) Aug 25 22:46
twitter Hmmm, this may be a primary benefit of Munchkin activity.  They can fill up blogs with links back to Wintel press.  That will game Google. Aug 25 22:46
twitter Added that list of 100 reactions to the Vista Failure Log http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jo… Aug 25 22:47
schestowitz Yes, I’m going to link to it tomorrow. Never seen it before. :-S Aug 25 22:47
twitter and the Vista Consensus opinion article http://slashdot.org/~twitt… Aug 25 22:47
twitter It’s very good.  Hundreds of articles all arranged by Vista reaction. Aug 25 22:48
twitter Having them all in one place shows the magnitude of Vista’s rejection. Aug 25 22:48
schestowitz Hey. It rhymed. Aug 25 22:49
*[H]omer is away: sleep beer sleep beer sleep Aug 25 22:52
twitter 911 and Chomsky.  Good bedtime movies. Aug 25 22:54
schestowitz Yeah, but not suitable for BN. I’ll just stick to DTP Aug 25 22:55
twitter that’s true Aug 25 23:01
schestowitz It’s also unavailable in a free format like Ogg. Some readers don’t like it. Aug 25 23:02
twitter I saw a video of Chomsky denying Republican 911 conspiracy theories on the basis of plausibility.  He did not think it was possible to coordinate without being caught. Aug 25 23:03
twitter I prefer theora myself.  I think there is free software available for mp4, it just can’t be distributed in crazy places like the US. Aug 25 23:06
schestowitz I just posted a Helois video. :-) Latest links, posted seconds ago Aug 25 23:07
twitter If you come across media in a crappy format, try ffmpeg2theora Aug 25 23:08
schestowitz Yes, I know, but it takes me time. Aug 25 23:09
schestowitz Copytights are sometimes an issue as well. Aug 25 23:09
twitter yeah, but then you can’t host it in any format. Aug 25 23:09
schestowitz Like this one at the bottom (it has a nice song attached to it).. [wait... can't get to it] Aug 25 23:11
twitter Hmmm, that Chompsky video.  Does it have more than a still frame and audio or does my player suck? Aug 25 23:12
twitter Rise of the police state works. Aug 25 23:13
schestowitz I’m not sure which URL. Post it here. Aug 25 23:14
schestowitz I’ll post this one later: http://www.linux-foundation.org/we…  )(might be good for failurelog) Aug 25 23:15
schestowitz Here’s the video I was going to mention. I have many promotional ones on BN Aug 25 23:15
schestowitz [H]omer made it BTW Aug 25 23:16
twitter might me, going to look Aug 25 23:17
twitter Steve Ballmer says they should have used Chris Farley instead of Jerry. Aug 25 23:27
twitter He’s got the hots for Dana Plato too. Aug 25 23:27
twitter I can imagine a few really funny not used Mojave clips.  Bad flashbacks to lost data and BSoD from previous M$ OS.  Putting your life into Vista is probably worse than drinking crap coffee Aug 25 23:29
schestowitz Putting you life in it is one thing. Getting it outta there is another. Aug 25 23:32
twitter exactly Aug 25 23:32
schestowitz It’s not /versions/ that made Windows more profitable. It’s the lock-in. Just watch what they did to WP (WordPerfect, not WordPress). Lockin, lockin, lockin, at all costs. Bribe, bribe, bribe, no matter the consequences. Slime, slime, slime; when accused of a smear campaign, call them “paranoids”. Aug 25 23:34
twitter that’s the SLOG Aug 25 23:35
*Tallken (i=f2f93bf5@ has joined #boycottnovell Aug 25 23:37
schestowitz Slime, not slog!! :-) Aug 25 23:40
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 25 23:55
*libervisco (n=daniel@tuxhacker/libervisco) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 25 23:58
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A Single Comment

  1. Dan O'Brian said,

    August 26, 2008 at 7:21 pm


    schestowitz twitter: just noticed this one: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.l… The thread has been hijacked by nothing but trolls. Watch how they attack the messenger (you) by saying something about comment ratings (which they typically game… they do the same thing in Digg).

    You might want to check the following link I discovered while reading slashdot earlier:


    It’s your friend twitter who is trying to game the moderation system on Slashdot by creating at least 10 known accounts. More than likely, he gets modded down because people have figured out his game and don’t approve.

    A quick google search also turns up this link to your irc channel logs:

    twitter Slashdot’s firehose is gamed. Aug 10 22:50

    kentma twitter: I really didn’t understand that phrase – what is “gamed”?

    twitter I mean people who want to manipulate it have signed up enough accounts to fake popular interest.

    That log is from http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/11/irc-log-10082008/

    Then there’s also:

    witter They also identify my accounts on the first few posts. They got my GNUChop today and replied to it by cut and pasting a brlug comment.

    where twitter admits to having multiple accounts.

    Isn’t this all a bit hypocritical? Accuse people who disagree with you of gaming the Slashdot moderation system and here you guys are the ones who are actually guilty of it.

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