09.06.08

^{Gemini version available ♊︎}

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 5th, 2008 – Part III

Posted in IRC Logs at 2:29 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

[H]omer	I don’t	Sep 05 17:50
schestowitz	Novell didn’t like people who type opensuse and Opensuse	Sep 05 17:50
schestowitz	IIRC	Sep 05 17:50
[H]omer	No more than I’d blame Fedora if Red Hat sold out	Sep 05 17:50
schestowitz	Unless majority vote counts…	Sep 05 17:51
schestowitz	Like Americans trying to tell Brits how to spell English words.	Sep 05 17:51
benJIman	It’s not a word, it’s a name.	Sep 05 17:51
schestowitz	Yes, it is.	Sep 05 17:51
[H]omer	Well i still write SuSE, like the good old days.	Sep 05 17:51
[H]omer	Before Sweaty Ballmer’s “235 patents”	Sep 05 17:52
schestowitz	Haha. Microsoft’s IDC is kicking Novell in the crotch now: http://www.itworldcanada.com/a/D…	Sep 05 17:52
*benJIman wonders if Ballmer being sweaty validates your argument.		Sep 05 17:52
schestowitz	Enjoying the dance with the Devil, Ron?	Sep 05 17:52
schestowitz	I guess Ron won’t be getting IDC loves until he bribes Gillen and his groupies.	Sep 05 17:53
schestowitz	Maybe Novell can borrow some more money from Ballmer to pay IDC for good coverage.	Sep 05 17:53
[H]omer	SUSE people just don’t seem to understand that the attacks are not directed towards them as individuals, it’s dissent against Microsoft and anyone who supports them. Surely that’s clear enough. And do I really need to remind such people why we dissent against that convicted monopolist?	Sep 05 17:53
benJIman	[H]omer: Do you actually read any of the articles on boyblog? They frequently attack openSUSE and developers working on free software.	Sep 05 17:54
[H]omer	I am not BN, I am me.	Sep 05 17:55
schestowitz	benJIman: attack who? People who mistakenly or knowingly help Microsoft against FOSS?	Sep 05 17:56
[H]omer	You attacking all dissenters is as bigoted as you seem to think we are towards SUSE. That’s hypocrisy benJIman.	Sep 05 17:56
schestowitz	They also attacked journalists over this.	Sep 05 17:56
schestowitz	That’s the most repulsive form of censorship	Sep 05 17:56
benJIman	Where was I attacking all dissenters?	Sep 05 17:56
[H]omer	“They frequently attack openSUSE”	Sep 05 17:56
schestowitz	To just write my mind out quickly, Novell pretty much ‘gagged’ Seigo before the latest announcement and I’ve inquired a bit.	Sep 05 17:57
[H]omer	Who’s “they”?	Sep 05 17:57
benJIman	[H]omer: The articles.	Sep 05 17:57
schestowitz	SJVN too was contacted by Novell and Asay too.	Sep 05 17:57
schestowitz	Surprise surprise/	Sep 05 17:57
schestowitz	The world then thinks that it’s all okay if Novell falls into Mirosoft’s arms and there’s no dissent in the media. So it must be OK	Sep 05 17:57
schestowitz	In my eyes, what Novell did at the time (I documented this with good solid proof) is like the things the Bush Regime does to defend its abuse.	Sep 05 17:58
[H]omer	So let me ask you quite bluntly benJIman, just to clear this up, do you or do you not support Microsoft?	Sep 05 17:58
benJIman	[H]omer: How do you define support?	Sep 05 17:58
schestowitz	And careful and carless developers alike just gaze and this and reckon that the media is ‘right’ and that the deal is one to accept.	Sep 05 17:58
schestowitz	They leave it to ‘the experts’	Sep 05 17:58
[H]omer	benJIman, you sound like Gates answering questions for the DOJ. “Define uninstall”?	Sep 05 17:59
benJIman	[H]omer: I use Free software on all my own machines, I don’t buy any microsoft products. I work with c#, .net, asp.net etc at work.	Sep 05 17:59
[H]omer	Surely you know what the word “support” means.	Sep 05 17:59
benJIman	So I don’t really know what you’re asking.	Sep 05 17:59
benJIman	I don’t give them money or use their products on my own time.	Sep 05 17:59
[H]omer	Do you support Microsoft’s anti-Linux agenda?	Sep 05 18:00
[H]omer	When Microsoft sabotaged Mandriva and the OLPC, did you support that?	Sep 05 18:00
schestowitz	Assimilation maybe.	Sep 05 18:00
benJIman	No.	Sep 05 18:00
schestowitz	As in, Microsoft dictates for Linux programmers.	Sep 05 18:00
schestowitz	That’s what Mono is about.	Sep 05 18:00
benJIman	I do like mono.	Sep 05 18:00
benJIman	but I prefer java.	Sep 05 18:01
[H]omer	benJIman, then if you don’t support Microsoft, why do you support those who do, such as Novell?	Sep 05 18:01
[H]omer	“The friend of my enemy is also mu enemy”	Sep 05 18:01
benJIman	[H]omer: I don’t support Novell per se. I even disagree with a lot they do.	Sep 05 18:01
[H]omer	Then why come here to be “entertained”?	Sep 05 18:02
schestowitz	* OT: On Ellison and possible fraud: http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/09/…	Sep 05 18:02
benJIman	I think their SLE licensing model is not sensible. I think the patent part of the covenant was unfortunate. I really don’t like groupwise, ichain and such.	Sep 05 18:03
[H]omer	benJIman, if you were to just think about exactly why we dissent, and specifically who we dissent against, then perhaps you’d realise that these “attacks” are not directed against you; the community; or openSUSE.	Sep 05 18:03
Odd_Bloke	benJIman: You like Java?	Sep 05 18:04
Odd_Bloke	Do you support Sun?	Sep 05 18:04
benJIman	Odd_Bloke is here.	Sep 05 18:04
schestowitz	” I think the patent part of the covenant was unfortunate.” Please elaborate	Sep 05 18:05
[H]omer	Java is pure GPL now, that should be a good enough reason. Then there’s OO.org too, of course.	Sep 05 18:05
schestowitz	Unfortunate?	Sep 05 18:05
schestowitz	There’s no fortune	Sep 05 18:05
benJIman	[H]omer: In that case why don’t you post an article on boycottnovell.com stating that you don’t have anything against openSUSE nor that they are responsible for or bound by Novell’s actions.	Sep 05 18:05
Odd_Bloke	Java isn’t pure GPL, it’s a trademark.	Sep 05 18:05
schestowitz	Novell came to Microsoft /asking/ for this.	Sep 05 18:05
[H]omer	benJIman, I’m not required to refute that which I have never claimed.	Sep 05 18:06
Odd_Bloke	Yeah, who gives a crap about good will in the free software community.	Sep 05 18:06
[H]omer	benJIman, why don’t you post an article denouncing murder, or theft, or war, for example.	Sep 05 18:06
[H]omer	benJIman, presumably you’ve never stated your support for those things, so why denounce them?	Sep 05 18:07
[H]omer	benJIman, I tell you what, why don’t you quote some “anti-openSUSE attack” here, and I’ll tell you now whether or not I support that assertion?	Sep 05 18:08
benJIman	[H]omer: Apologies, I did not mean you personally, but boycottnovell collectively.	Sep 05 18:09
[H]omer	I’m here to dissent against Microsoft and all their supporters. That’s all.	Sep 05 18:10
[H]omer	Does the openSUSE community support Microsoft?	Sep 05 18:10
Odd_Bloke	What does ‘support’ mean?	Sep 05 18:10
[H]omer	If not then … there’s your answer.	Sep 05 18:10
Odd_Bloke	I had to boot up Vista at work yesterday to test that a website I was working on would work in IE7.	Sep 05 18:11
Odd_Bloke	Does that count as supporting Microsoft?	Sep 05 18:11
benJIman	[H]omer: There is nothing that has been signed by contributors that even mentions Microsoft afaik.	Sep 05 18:11
benJIman	Odd_Bloke: Clearly you are a Microsoft Shill. ¬_¬	Sep 05 18:11
Odd_Bloke	MSFT FTW. >.<	Sep 05 18:12
[H]omer	Odd_Bloke, support … as in “believe in”, “follow”, “give assistance to”, “praise”, “be happy about”, “be content with”, “want”, “like”, etc. I hope that’s clear.	Sep 05 18:13
schestowitz	Odd_Bloke: are you also in the Opensuse channel ATM?	Sep 05 18:13
Odd_Bloke	schestowitz: I think so, I was supporting a customer through an upgrade a couple of days ago.	Sep 05 18:13
Odd_Bloke	And having no experience with openSUSE myself needed a hand.	Sep 05 18:14
schestowitz	So you’re ganging up here.	Sep 05 18:14
Odd_Bloke	Uhm, no.	Sep 05 18:14
[H]omer	When people start demanding definitions for simple words like “support”, that looks highly evasive to me. Much like Gates answering questions for the DOJ. You should look at it some time, it’s hilarious.	Sep 05 18:14
schestowitz	We also have 3 ‘mibs’	Sep 05 18:14
schestowitz	Who ae eerily quiet I might add.	Sep 05 18:14
schestowitz	[H]omer: “what do you mean by ‘hilarious’?”	Sep 05 18:15
[H]omer	http://antitrust.slated.org/g…	Sep 05 18:15
Odd_Bloke	No, hilarious is a well-defined word.	Sep 05 18:15
benJIman	[H]omer: The point is that unless the members of the community have signed a statement of support I don’t know how you expect the question to be answered.	Sep 05 18:15
[H]omer	Hilarious because of Gates’ squirming around trying to avoid questions, whilst rocking back and forth in his chair	Sep 05 18:15
schestowitz	Needs some Kaffeine	Sep 05 18:15
Odd_Bloke	But ‘support’ can mean many different things in different contexts.	Sep 05 18:15
Odd_Bloke	I ‘support’ Windows in that some of our clients run it.	Sep 05 18:16
schestowitz	sigh	Sep 05 18:16
Odd_Bloke	But I in no way ‘support’ proprietary software or Microsoft ideologically.	Sep 05 18:16
schestowitz	The conclusion I reach is that OpenSUSE people quietly endorse the deal	Sep 05 18:16
schestowitz	Or… they are not willing to resist it.	Sep 05 18:16
schestowitz	That too is support, albeit through passiveness and apathy.	Sep 05 18:17
schestowitz	Thanks for elucidating.	Sep 05 18:17
Odd_Bloke	Or they realise that doing and creating free software is better than talking about non-free software.	Sep 05 18:17
[H]omer	benJIman, but your very presence here for “entertainment” indicates you challenge our dissent – think it’s a joke.	Sep 05 18:17
benJIman	schestowitz: I do not endorse the deal, and I disagree with the patent covenant. Though I think the unfortunate wording was more down to Novell management being epic noobs than the conspiracy theories.	Sep 05 18:18
Odd_Bloke	[H]omer: It is in no way just openSUSE people that consider your ‘dissent’ a joke.	Sep 05 18:18
Odd_Bloke	But, no doubt, you could find enough of a link to Microsoft to salve your noble spirit.	Sep 05 18:18
Odd_Bloke	Oh, I should note that I know benJIman through university, not through openSUSE.	Sep 05 18:19
Odd_Bloke	That’s how he recognised me when I spoke up, not through our sworn allegiance to Satan.	Sep 05 18:20
[H]omer	Odd_Bloke, OK then, please explain what’s so funny about what Microsoft did in Nigeria to Mandriva, or Sweden with OOXML? And what’s so “funny” about people who dissent against that, and dissent against those who support Microsoft?	Sep 05 18:20
schestowitz	For people who purport to be happy about SUSE, you seem very keen to ‘entertain’ yourselves here.	Sep 05 18:20
schestowitz	Or Novell’s alleged fraud for that matter.	Sep 05 18:21
schestowitz	They paid $14 million for these allegations to go away.	Sep 05 18:21
benJIman	[H]omer: I don’t think you’ll find that anyone suggested those things were funny.	Sep 05 18:21
schestowitz	Better learn to love Microsoft, you two, because Hovsepian indicates that the number of collaborations with Ballmer will triple (up to about 27)	Sep 05 18:21
Odd_Bloke	I don’t take issue with your dissent against Microsoft because its dissent against Microsoft, I take issue with you being so flagrantly bad at it.	Sep 05 18:22
[H]omer	benJIman, but you’re here to be “entertained”, are you not?	Sep 05 18:22
Odd_Bloke	You’re a laughing stock, because you froth at the mouth.	Sep 05 18:22
schestowitz	Since Microsoft fights FOSS and breaks the law in the process even, Novell is fighting FOSS too. And as I emphasized before, more people realise this.	Sep 05 18:22
Odd_Bloke	You’re an object of ridicule which the other side can hold up to make the entire community look stupid.	Sep 05 18:22
schestowitz	There’s a reason why more people follow BN and it’s not because there’s anything more than independent suspicion and relisation.	Sep 05 18:23
Odd_Bloke	_That_ is why I take issue.	Sep 05 18:23
*PetoKraus (n=Peter@78-86-98-119.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell		Sep 05 18:23
schestowitz	Hi, PetoKraus	Sep 05 18:23
[H]omer	Odd_Bloke, so it’s funny when people are “outraged” by corruption now, is it? What do you do, shrug your shoulders and stick your head in the sand, I suppose.	Sep 05 18:23
schestowitz	Because he loves his OpenSUSE.	Sep 05 18:23
[H]omer	But anti-Microsoft != anti-openSUSE	Sep 05 18:24
[H]omer	Unless the openSUSE community is declaring their support for Microsoft	Sep 05 18:24
Odd_Bloke	[H]omer: I’m currently employed at a free software consultancy, I work on bzr and Debian packaging when I get home from said job, I participate in my local GLUG.	Sep 05 18:24
Odd_Bloke	If we’re going to beat them, we have to do it by being _better_.	Sep 05 18:25
Odd_Bloke	Being right isn’t good enough.	Sep 05 18:25
[H]omer	Odd_Bloke, good, then you hate Microsoft as much as I do then?	Sep 05 18:25
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell		Sep 05 18:27
[H]omer	I don’t need to prove that the Free Software community is “right” (as in morally right), and that Microsoft is wrong. That much is patently obvious. But I do want to spread that word as far and loud as I can.	Sep 05 18:27
Odd_Bloke	I don’t think I’d characterise it as hate.	Sep 05 18:27
[H]omer	What I’m saying is it’s time to pick a side, and stop sitting on the fence.	Sep 05 18:27
Odd_Bloke	Uhm, I’ve picked my side.	Sep 05 18:27
[H]omer	Microsoft is our self-declared enemy “Linux is a cancer”. Start treating them as such.	Sep 05 18:28
[H]omer	If no one ever dissents against them, then they will continue to corrupt IT with complete impunity. Do you really want that?	Sep 05 18:29
schestowitz	http://www.webwire.com/ViewPres… Novell: “reducing the problems associated with deploying new operating system (OS) platforms like Vista, decreasing expensive service desk calls and increasing user productivity.”	Sep 05 18:29
[H]omer	Would you tolerate a mass-murderer on the loose? Microsoft “murders” software Freedom.	Sep 05 18:30
[H]omer	It sabotages Linux.	Sep 05 18:30
Odd_Bloke	No, I wouldn’t.	Sep 05 18:30
schestowitz	This happens to be true, but Microsoft has a good lawyer.	Sep 05 18:30
Odd_Bloke	But comparing a human life to software freedom is pretty simple-minded.	Sep 05 18:30
schestowitz	It’s like a criminal that claims to have helped the community, been a good husband etc.	Sep 05 18:30
[H]omer	Crime is crime, surely?	Sep 05 18:31
schestowitz	Odd_Bloke: our society becomes digital	Sep 05 18:31
[H]omer	Tolerate it, or fight again it.	Sep 05 18:31
[H]omer	*against	Sep 05 18:31
schestowitz	Those who are poor die from hunger sometimes.	Sep 05 18:31
Odd_Bloke	You seem to have a very narrow view of both dissent and fighting against proprietary software.	Sep 05 18:31
Odd_Bloke	Both of which seem to involve making a lot of noise.	Sep 05 18:32
[H]omer	My fight is not against “proprietary software”, it’s against Microsoft – convicted monopolists and racketeers.	Sep 05 18:32
Odd_Bloke	That’s where you and I differ.	Sep 05 18:33
schestowitz	Proprietary software is dangerous when it’s equipped or accompanies with malice.	Sep 05 18:33
[H]omer	I don’t care about other proprietary software companies, like AutoDesk, for example, because AutoDesk do not attack the Free Software community.	Sep 05 18:33
schestowitz	It gives total control over the user who pays for it.	Sep 05 18:33
schestowitz	When you buy a car, the car does not control you. You can open up the bonnet.	Sep 05 18:33
[H]omer	Look at Adobe, for example. I wouldn’t exactly call them Free Software evangelists, and yet they are friendly towards Linux. They are a business, and need to make money, but they do this without sabotaging the competition or attacking Free Software.	Sep 05 18:35
[H]omer	Only Microsoft do this	Sep 05 18:35
[H]omer	IBM used to be a culprit too	Sep 05 18:35
[H]omer	But now they’ve sided with Linux against Microsoft	Sep 05 18:36
Odd_Bloke	GNU/Linux.	Sep 05 18:36
[H]omer	Microsoft is the only threat	Sep 05 18:36
schestowitz	Odd_Bloke: IBM is odd with GNU	Sep 05 18:36
[H]omer	“Linux” shorthand/convenience. No disrespect to the FSF.	Sep 05 18:36
Odd_Bloke	In what way are they a threat?	Sep 05 18:36
schestowitz	IBM is behind the marketing group called Linux Foundation	Sep 05 18:37
schestowitz	But IBM helps FSF financially, I suspect	Sep 05 18:37
Odd_Bloke	Just acting threatening towards the free software community doesn’t mean they are an actual threat.	Sep 05 18:37
schestowitz	Odd_Bloke: they bribe against it.	Sep 05 18:37
schestowitz	They do a lot more.	Sep 05 18:37
[H]omer	Roy, post the link to “Microsoft’s dirty tricks” to show Odd_Bloke how Microsoft are a “threat”.	Sep 05 18:37
schestowitz	Need you see examples?	Sep 05 18:37
Odd_Bloke	OK, that’s acting threatening.	Sep 05 18:38
Odd_Bloke	We’re a _community_, not a business.	Sep 05 18:38
schestowitz	There’s no ‘community’. Not in the usual sense..	Sep 05 18:38
schestowitz	There’s a sharing of goals and philosophy.	Sep 05 18:39
schestowitz	There are many ‘communities’ that are social groupings of programmers and such.	Sep 05 18:39
Odd_Bloke	OK, a confederation of communities then.	Sep 05 18:39
[H]omer	They coopted Novel, funded SCO against Linux, sabotaged the OLPC and Mandriva, called Linux a “cancer”, made unfounded allegations of “235 patent” infringements, the list goes on.	Sep 05 18:39
[H]omer	Then their’s the MSBBC iPlayer fiasco	Sep 05 18:39
schestowitz	I have 4005 posts in BN with many more examples.	Sep 05 18:39
schestowitz	A lot of their dirty laundry they do via proxies.	Sep 05 18:40
[H]omer	Shell companies like IP Innovation LLC	Sep 05 18:40
Odd_Bloke	So those are all irritating, but they aren’t actual threats to the functioning of the confederation of communities.	Sep 05 18:40
[H]omer	“Irritating”?	Sep 05 18:40
Odd_Bloke	They aren’t out to destroy free software qua free software, they’re out to destroy free software qua competition, if you will.	Sep 05 18:41
[H]omer	It’s thuggish and criminal	Sep 05 18:41
[H]omer	In a fair society they’d be shut down for racketeering	Sep 05 18:41
[H]omer	Look at the OEM scandal (proved by the DOJ)	Sep 05 18:41
Odd_Bloke	In a fair society, I suspect they wouldn’t operate this way.	Sep 05 18:41
Odd_Bloke	Precisely because they would be shut down.	Sep 05 18:42
schestowitz	Odd_Bloke: what do you do about this? Support Novell/Mcirosoft SUSE?	Sep 05 18:42
[H]omer	Clandestine Memorandum of Understanding with OEMs to lock-out pre-installed Linux, the sabotage against Apple “knife the baby”, sabotaging Netscape …	Sep 05 18:42
schestowitz	By refusing to act upon it, you solve nothing and complicate things further.	Sep 05 18:43
[H]omer	I mean good God these people are gangsters, how can anyone not see that?	Sep 05 18:43
Odd_Bloke	I’m not refusing to act, I’m refusing to act in an identical manner to Boycott Novell.	Sep 05 18:43
Odd_Bloke	Which, incidentally, is fairly poorly named if “Microsoft is the only threat”.	Sep 05 18:43
[H]omer	Name another threat then	Sep 05 18:44
schestowitz	Odd_Bloke: really?	Sep 05 18:44
[H]omer	<silence>	Sep 05 18:44
schestowitz	If I don’t criticise Apple in BN (which I do in links), it’s because the scope of the site must be limited.	Sep 05 18:44
Odd_Bloke	It’s called Boycott _NOVELL_. ¬.¬	Sep 05 18:44
benJIman	Well boycottxandros.com goes to the same site.	Sep 05 18:45
[H]omer	“The friend of my enemy…”	Sep 05 18:45
[H]omer	Understand yet?	Sep 05 18:45
Odd_Bloke	Uhm, I understand perfectly.	Sep 05 18:45
Odd_Bloke	I _disagree_.	Sep 05 18:45
[H]omer	Why?	Sep 05 18:45
Odd_Bloke	Because regularly having a tantrum on your blog is not a productive way to bring down Microsoft.	Sep 05 18:46
Odd_Bloke	It’s counter-productive.	Sep 05 18:46
[H]omer	How would you deal with Microsoft? Support them or fight them?	Sep 05 18:47
[H]omer	And how would you do it?	Sep 05 18:47
Odd_Bloke	You give them something to hold up to people in general, who are indifferent to the matter, and say, “Look, they’re crazy.”	Sep 05 18:47
Odd_Bloke	Because you’re fucking crazy.	Sep 05 18:47
[H]omer	Then indifferent should remain indifferent … elsewhere	Sep 05 18:47
[H]omer	I’m crazy for being outraged by Microsoft’s thuggish behaviour? Why?	Sep 05 18:48
Odd_Bloke	You do not have the Platonic expression of outrage.	Sep 05 18:48
schestowitz	Odd_Bloke: if you don’t fight back, you lose.	Sep 05 18:48
[H]omer	That’s your mistaken inference	Sep 05 18:48
Odd_Bloke	This isn’t fighting back!	Sep 05 18:48
[H]omer	Your opinion	Sep 05 18:49
Odd_Bloke	This is banging your fists on the floor and screaming, while feeling like you’re doing something!	Sep 05 18:49
schestowitz	Microsoft fight FOSS all the time (it’s disguised behind fronts like BSA and CompTIA). Refuse to talk about it and you shall be devours.	Sep 05 18:49
schestowitz	*devoured	Sep 05 18:49
[H]omer	Spreading the truth is not a tantrum	Sep 05 18:49
Odd_Bloke	That’s true, but irrelevant.	Sep 05 18:49
schestowitz	Can you counter $300 of Microsoft brainwash money? http://www.forbes.com/reuters/fe…	Sep 05 18:50
[H]omer	Ultimately there are those who care, those who don’t, and those who oppose dissent. I’ll keep stating my views in the hope that it makes a difference. Would you rather I was censored?	Sep 05 18:50
schestowitz	Do you know how much they bribe politicians?	Sep 05 18:50
schestowitz	(by bribe I mean “contributions” and “awards”)	Sep 05 18:51
[H]omer	“Marketing assistance”	Sep 05 18:51
[H]omer	LOL	Sep 05 18:51
schestowitz	Bribe	Sep 05 18:51
[H]omer	Just like Sweden	Sep 05 18:51
schestowitz	They have many words for it.	Sep 05 18:51
[H]omer	Nigeria	Sep 05 18:51
schestowitz	Lobbying too.	Sep 05 18:51
[H]omer	Congress?	Sep 05 18:51
Odd_Bloke	[H]omer: I don’t oppose dissent.	Sep 05 18:51
schestowitz	Like ACT ATL and other bribery houses that Zuck seems to be building for Microsoft.	Sep 05 18:52
schestowitz	It’s a money funnel that goes all the way up.	Sep 05 18:52
Odd_Bloke	Blog posts are not dissent.	Sep 05 18:52
[H]omer	Odd_Bloke, sound like you do – you’re trying to say I should shut up.	Sep 05 18:52
schestowitz	And again, I won’t stop citing it: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/…	Sep 05 18:52
schestowitz	The system is corrupt. Treat it gently with apologism and you’ll become a slave.	Sep 05 18:52
[H]omer	The world is full of sheeple.	Sep 05 18:52
Odd_Bloke	But you’re not treating the system harshly.	Sep 05 18:53
Odd_Bloke	You’re just talking about the system.	Sep 05 18:53
Odd_Bloke	It’s not _doing_ anything.	Sep 05 18:53
schestowitz	?	Sep 05 18:53
[H]omer	What other power do I have?	Sep 05 18:53
[H]omer	But the voice of dissent?	Sep 05 18:53
schestowitz	Can I bribe the cronies?	Sep 05 18:53
schestowitz	Can I prevent them from receiving brives in procurement?>	Sep 05 18:54
schestowitz	Speaking of which, Novell bribes too.	Sep 05 18:54
schestowitz	http://www.accessmylibrary….	Sep 05 18:55
schestowitz	“The new chief of technology at the state Department of Children & Families resigned late Tuesday after agency officials learned he had been faulted by officials at a previous job in Ohio for accepting gifts from a technology company that had won a $1.9 million contract.	Sep 05 18:55
schestowitz	“	Sep 05 18:55
schestowitz	“John R. Hurd was also criticized in a separate investigation by the Ohio Inspector General’s Office for appearing in several advertisements for the company, Novell, and allowing the company to run endorsements by him on its website.”	Sep 05 18:55
[H]omer	I could steal money from people with racketeering, then use that to bribe congress into changing the system … just like Microsoft does. But I’m not built that way. I’d rather use the democratic process to speak out.	Sep 05 18:55
Odd_Bloke	When was the last time you wrote to your congress(wo)man, senator, MP, …?	Sep 05 18:55
benJIman	Have you written to your local MP/MoC ?	Sep 05 18:56
benJIman	Heh.	Sep 05 18:56
[H]omer	Every other week	Sep 05 18:56
[H]omer	Most recently about iPlayer	Sep 05 18:56
Odd_Bloke	[H]omer: You’re British?	Sep 05 18:56
[H]omer	Yes	Sep 05 18:56
Odd_Bloke	Cool.	Sep 05 18:56
[H]omer	I used congress as an example (assume American on the Net)	Sep 05 18:56
[H]omer	I also signed various petitions on the PM’s Website	Sep 05 18:57
*schestowitz signs many petitions		Sep 05 18:57
[H]omer	And spoke out against Donald Trump’s “plans” to destroy an area of SSI in Aberdeenshire	Sep 05 18:57
[H]omer	I am very much an “activist”, and I hope I do make a difference. I am not a sheeple.	Sep 05 18:58
[H]omer	And yes I’m bloody angry.	Sep 05 18:59
[H]omer	I have a right.	Sep 05 18:59
[H]omer	I have the right to Free Speech	Sep 05 18:59
[H]omer	I’m exercising that right.	Sep 05 18:59
schestowitz	You’re’ dissenting’.	Sep 05 18:59
schestowitz		Sep 05 18:59
[H]omer	I’ll fight Microsoft to my dying breath.	Sep 05 18:59
[H]omer	Or their’s … whichever comes first	Sep 05 19:00
schestowitz	Microsoft is not alone thought.	Sep 05 19:00
Odd_Bloke	“Microsoft is the only threat”.	Sep 05 19:00
schestowitz	The nproblem is that there’s a leftover of Gateocrats who keep the wealth flowing among the clique.	Sep 05 19:00
[H]omer	only threat to IT	Sep 05 19:01
schestowitz	To FOSS, not IT	Sep 05 19:01
[H]omer	There are threats in other areas of society	Sep 05 19:01
Odd_Bloke	OK, I take your point.	Sep 05 19:01
schestowitz	Apple could rise to be a threat to IT as it is to other things like copyrights monopoly ‘industry’	Sep 05 19:01
schestowitz	The main issue is broader.	Sep 05 19:01
schestowitz	Sharing of knowledge for starters.	Sep 05 19:02
[H]omer	Actually no … IT. Microsoft are even a threat to standards; other companies, and even their own partners (PlaysForSure).	Sep 05 19:02
schestowitz	RMS does too recognises that sharing is key and education is a route to means.	Sep 05 19:02
schestowitz	Hogging culture is blamed not only for bribes but also for endless pursuit for power (=wealth)	Sep 05 19:02
schestowitz	And objestively speaking, the gap between poor and rich widens.	Sep 05 19:03
[H]omer	I have to go eat. Back in about an hour.	Sep 05 19:03
*[H]omer is away: sleep beer sleep beer sleep		Sep 05 19:03
schestowitz	FOSS was born as a partly political movement in the sense that engineers want their machines to serve /them/, not other masters	Sep 05 19:03
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schestowitz	Geez. They attack Fry now? http://www.itpro.co.uk/605877/step… ( Stephen Fry celebrates open source, attacks Microsoft and Apple )	Sep 05 19:22
schestowitz	it’s just like those attacks on Stallman after he had criticised Microsoft in the MSBBC)	Sep 05 19:22
schestowitz	seller_liar: just found this one which you might want to see: http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/hprw/…	Sep 05 19:23
schestowitz	“Brazil, Sept. 2 /PRNewswire-HISPANIC PR WIRE/ — BuscaPe.com Group ( http://www.buscape.com ), which is owner of the largest Comparison Shopping Network in Latin America…” More media control, of which you can find plenty, but this one is different (service). Nonetheless, there’s money on the table, which can affect editorial bias.	Sep 05 19:24
Odd_Bloke	schestowitz: How is that an attack on Stephen Fry?	Sep 05 19:24
schestowitz	Read it.	Sep 05 19:24
schestowitz	The headline	Sep 05 19:25
Odd_Bloke	Just did.	Sep 05 19:25
schestowitz	I wrote about it a week ago (headline massaging): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/…	Sep 05 19:25
Odd_Bloke	I should probably watch the video as well.	Sep 05 19:25
Odd_Bloke	BRB.	Sep 05 19:25
Odd_Bloke	OK, my connection is too slow to stream it.	Sep 05 19:26
schestowitz	I notice that Paul Krill is still boosting some Microsoft (there’s discomforting history there): http://www.infoworld.com/article/…	Sep 05 19:27
seller_liar	schestowitz: thanks roy, i will read	Sep 05 19:28
schestowitz	More Microsoft investments in broadcasting (=possible bias): Microsoft to be among 13 investors in NHK satellite channel ( http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor… )	Sep 05 19:35
schestowitz	FUDMesiter Hauser: “More recently Hauser played a strategic role on Microsoft’s Law and Corporate Affairs, Intellectual Property Leadership team where she worked on Microsoft’s relationship with Novell and its efforts on interoperability. She was instrumental role in developing Microsoft’s first Interop Executive Customer Council with 45 worldwide CIO’s across commercial and public sector customers, added Scott.”	Sep 05 19:38
schestowitz	http://blogs.bankingtech.com/blo…	Sep 05 19:38
schestowitz	More information about the media investment: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10032493-75.html ( Microsoft and 12 others invest in Japanese TV )	Sep 05 19:41
seller_liar	drm in NHK?	Sep 05 19:49
seller_liar	Is Nhk public?	Sep 05 19:50
schestowitz	I’m not sure. I haven’t chekced.	Sep 05 19:54
schestowitz	The power of manipulation: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor…	Sep 05 20:03
schestowitz	A stranger has just E-mailed me this: “taking clues from the fsf movement and reading behind the lifes of linus and rms. http://thebookonlife.googlepages.com its just 21 pages.” it’s amazing how much work is being put into writing that’s rarely published.	Sep 05 20:08
seller_liar	schestowitz: thanks roy	Sep 05 20:08
schestowitz	Gates/Davis ‘forgets’ Adobe :-S http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-219799.html (seems like usual Zeedee fluff)	Sep 05 20:09
schestowitz	Other notice this too: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-9…	Sep 05 20:10
schestowitz	“I don’t get it… Flash is ubiquitous.. it’s on almost every PC out there and has a huge developer base behind it, yet these people are implying Silverlight is THE platform to beat. What does Silverlight have that Flash doesn’t (besides a huge bankroll behind it and some very green developers)?”	Sep 05 20:10
schestowitz	Even gary Edwards weighed in: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208…	Sep 05 20:11
seller_liar	schestowitz: why people do not use java fx	Sep 05 20:11
schestowitz	It’s not being hyped by shills.	Sep 05 20:12
schestowitz	Microsoft has known boosters in ZDNET	Sep 05 20:12
schestowitz	I caught one here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/…	Sep 05 20:12
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/… ‘The author of the email, posted on ZDNet in a Talkback forum on the Microsoft antitrust trial, claimed her name was Michelle Bradley and that she had “retired” from Microsoft last week. “A verbal memo [no email allowed] was passed around the MS campus encouraging MS employee’s to post to ZDNet articles like this one,” the email said.’	Sep 05 20:13
seller_liar	schestowitz: lobo have native java Fx	Sep 05 20:19
schestowitz	Lobo?	Sep 05 20:22
seller_liar	http://lobobrowser.org/	Sep 05 20:25
schestowitz	They should do that at Mozilla too perhaps, just as they do with Ogg. JavaFX is GPLv2-ed	Sep 05 20:25
seller_liar	yes	Sep 05 20:26
schestowitz	“Wow, a tough day for Windows. BusinessWeek reports that HP, the world’s biggest PC company, is so troubled by Vista’s ‘tepid reception’ and Apple’s resurgence that it is developing its own operating system. Meanwhile a New York Times columnist writes on his blog that Windows is “already dying a death by a thousand cuts.””	Sep 05 20:27
schestowitz	http://blogs.zdnet.com/computers/?p=219	Sep 05 20:28
schestowitz	http://www.businessweek.com/techn…	Sep 05 20:28
schestowitz	“Others in HP’s PC division are exploring the possibility of building an HP operating system for mainstream desktop and notebook computers based on the open-source Linux system, which competes with Windows, say people familiar with the company’s plans.”	Sep 05 20:28
seller_liar	aix?!	Sep 05 20:28
seller_liar	no , hp-ux?!	Sep 05 20:28
Odd_Bloke	seller_liar: “which competes with Windows”? :p	Sep 05 20:31
seller_liar	Odd_Bloke: I know	Sep 05 20:31
seller_liar	schestowitz: hp chances are very low	Sep 05 20:32
seller_liar	schestowitz: strange….	Sep 05 20:33
schestowitz	Yes, I know. I wrote about their strong tie with Microsoft this morning.	Sep 05 20:33
seller_liar	schestowitz: my friend was trying to running virtual box in your computer ,and then	Sep 05 20:34
schestowitz	The almost-criminal former CEO is now helping McCain (and his interests)	Sep 05 20:34
seller_liar	schestowitz: virtualbox did not pass in certification tests!!!	Sep 05 20:34
schestowitz	McCain is surrounded by the likes of Microsoft, which he openly /supports/.	Sep 05 20:34
schestowitz	Bray on post 3000: “And inside Sun software, the hottest creative energies are going into JavaFX (unfortunately, I just don’t get whole RIA thing) and OpenSolaris’ IPS (unfortunately, I’m a packaging moron) and multi-language NetBeans (they don’t need much help… well, I do report bugs). I’m internally pushing some ideas that I think could be impactful; but it feels like an in-between time.” ( http://www.tbray.org/ongoin	Sep 05 20:36
schestowitz	g/When/200x/2008/09/05/Three-Thousand-and-One )	Sep 05 20:36
schestowitz	http://www.tbray.org/ongo…	Sep 05 20:36
schestowitz	seller_liar: Sun’s xVM, AKA VirtualBox 2.0, what certification is it? Sun was bragging about standards adherence yesterday, on the same day as the xVM (desktop) announcement	Sep 05 20:37
seller_liar	schestowitz: my friend did not give more information for me, but m$ does not permit to install neither vbox 2 and 1.6	Sep 05 20:38
schestowitz	There’s another issue I’ll write about later: http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index… (probably Maritz, which sells out to his former employer, partner of ‘father’ EMC)	Sep 05 20:39
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schestowitz	http://standardsandfreedom.net/index… “Yo do what they want you yo do. You spread the brainwash.”	Sep 05 20:48
schestowitz	There are so many people even in the FOSS community that play along with Microsoft’s Viral Advertising campaign, which is unfortunate.	Sep 05 20:49
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MinceR	benJIman: i don’t post articles because i don’t have time to write them.	Sep 05 21:13
MinceR	also, i’m not really a writer.	Sep 05 21:13
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schestowitz	Nice username for a puppet: Path: border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.gigan ews.com!newsfeeder.ewetel.de!ecngs!feeder 2.ecngs.de!peer1.news.newnet.co.uk!194.159 .246.34.MISMATCH!peer-uk.news.demon. net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.u k!demon!ellandroad.demon.c o.uk!not-for-mail	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	Message-ID: <4498071.XgFttn5xIF@schestowitz.com>	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	From: Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com>	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	Subject: [News] GNU/Linux Fest in Atlanta and Many More Conferences Coming	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:56:02 +0000	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	Lines: 158	Sep 05 23:04
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schestowitz	X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1220450642 22322 80.177.9.133 (3 Sep 2008 14:04:02 GMT)	Sep 05 23:04
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schestowitz	X-Face: .dYWu:H1\ 3ib`=TZoi9{>C].hHmdJ #z~”:dJ5pFYAC`jJ6 I~pf</F~#Sp(\[J6OgtE BO”[ @'u^%Ia#bVQ hL%Cw#^nU FCIAEjS=M(B6B'& gt;OUrp)Y"ZY}Z\Y ~`g#I,JSw?7"3& amp;Fctfk^)\]8{j[7 )M Nj%-#0a}S+ 8oFlP^l,>&Y^1yhEYGz7>sv’ OuW}a9Oq}:<Ra`;’,O G@O=wj0mp’{Q \|hbDm&yS-#r m;DM)4S$!IX22Ou)-Y ^lh[pu6VX8Dh0dG &Fv[54aJZeX*L AV]2w9wSR15	Sep 05 23:04
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schestowitz	X-War: No, thank you	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	X-OpenPGP: id=74572E8E; url=http://schestowitz.com/PGP	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	Bytes: 6851	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	Xref: ellandroad.demon.co.uk comp.os.linux.advocacy:685769	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	Message was signed by Roy Schestowitz <sch@danielsorogon.com> (Key ID: 0x74572E8E).	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	The signature is valid and the key is ultimately trusted.	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	Atlanta Linux Fest 2008	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	,—-[ Quote ]	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	\| On Saturday, September 20th, 2008, the Atlanta Linux Fest will be the place	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	\| to learn, discuss, and discover Linux. There will be demos of various	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	\| distributions, as well as an install fest for new users to try out Live CDs	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	\| and get help with Linux installations.	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	`—-	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	http://www.linuxpr.com/releases/10847.html	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	http://atlantalinuxfest.org/	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	Upcoming open source & web conferences	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	,—-[ Quote ]	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	\| -Zend confere	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	Blech.	Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz	Nice username for a puppet: http://www.fsdaily.com/users/boycottboycottnovell.com (They are gaming FSDaily again)	Sep 05 23:05
*MinceR proposes boycottboycottboycottnovell.com		Sep 05 23:24
schestowitz	1.. 2.. 3… oh yeah, many negatives, I guess. Either way, they seem to be playing that site again, just like they did before when there was a ‘revolt’	Sep 05 23:26
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