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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 10th, 2008 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 3:54 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz


Enter the IRC channel now

MinceR gn Nov 10 00:09
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yuhong Remember the “revisionist” thing? Nov 10 00:12
yuhong I think that it isn’t that it was revisionist, but it was that they are bad excuses. Nov 10 00:13
schestowitz What do you mean? Nov 10 00:13
schestowitz By the way, are you in Seattle? Nov 10 00:14
yuhong Yes, I am. Nov 10 00:14
schestowitz Any relation to some company there? Nov 10 00:14
schestowitz Just curious, that’s all.. Nov 10 00:14
yuhong No, but you said that the DR/MS thing was revisionist. Nov 10 00:14
schestowitz Wait. Nov 10 00:15
yuhong I think it was just a bad excuse. Nov 10 00:15
schestowitz Are you using Linux where you work? I’m curious. Nov 10 00:15
yuhong No. Nov 10 00:15
schestowitz Any connection to another company in WA? Nov 10 00:15
yuhong No. Nov 10 00:15
schestowitz Oh, okay. Nov 10 00:15
yuhong Anyway, back to DR/MS. Nov 10 00:16
yuhong you said that the DR/MS thing was revisionist. Nov 10 00:16
yuhong I think it was just a bad excuse. Nov 10 00:16
schestowitz Maybe just a coincidence then (that you always defend Microsoft and also connect from Seattle, Washington) Nov 10 00:16
schestowitz No, not back to DR-DOS. Nov 10 00:16
yuhong I don’t always defend MS. Nov 10 00:16
schestowitz You’re trying to change the subject, why? Nov 10 00:16
schestowitz When do you not defend them? Nov 10 00:16
yuhong I admit that freedom is a real advantage of open source software. Nov 10 00:16
schestowitz Have you tried GNU/Linux? Nov 10 00:17
yuhong Yes I did. Nov 10 00:17
schestowitz Which distros do you like? Nov 10 00:17
yuhong I am not sure yet. Nov 10 00:17
schestowitz Which did you try? Nov 10 00:17
yuhong Ubuntu. Nov 10 00:17
yuhong In a VM. Nov 10 00:18
schestowitz Nice. Nov 10 00:18
yuhong But I joined the channel in the first place because I was thinking of the DR/MS. Nov 10 00:18
yuhong I don’t think it was revisionist, just that it was a bad excuse. Nov 10 00:19
schestowitz I just notice that you also defend Microsoft in Roughly drafted. Nov 10 00:19
yuhong I often do. Nov 10 00:19
schestowitz E.g. in “You do have some good points about the limitations of security in modern OSes, but the comparison is fundementally unfair. The iPhone’s OS should really be compared against things like Windows Mobile and Windows CE, NOT desktop or server versions of Windows.” < http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/10… > Nov 10 00:19
schestowitz Why? Nov 10 00:19
schestowitz It was not an excuse though. Nov 10 00:20
schestowitz It was technical sabotage. Nov 10 00:20
schestowitz I notice that you also blog in Microsoft’s space… http://yuhong386.spaces.live.com/ Nov 10 00:21
schestowitz Oops. Nov 10 00:21
schestowitz That’s someone else. Nov 10 00:21
schestowitz Wait, is this you? http://yuhong386.spaces.live.com/?_c11_BlogP… Nov 10 00:23
schestowitz yuhong: are you there? Nov 10 00:23
schestowitz yuhong?? Nov 10 00:23
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yuhong Anyway, I was referring to your claim about the MS/SCP/DR story being “revisionism”. Nov 10 01:31
yuhong And I don’t think it is revisionism, but do think it is a bad excuse for what MS did to DR in early 1990s. Nov 10 01:32
yuhong And the same can be said of Netscape. Nov 10 01:32
schestowitz Microsoft used illegal tactics against Netscape. Nov 10 01:34
schestowitz The DOJ and the United States of America says so. Nov 10 01:34
yuhong I know they did. Nov 10 01:35
schestowitz Microsoft admitted (in court evidence) that it could not beat Netscape in regular means. Nov 10 01:35
yuhong I know. Nov 10 01:35
yuhong And I know they did the same thing against Digital Research. Nov 10 01:35
yuhong I was referring to when you said a story was “revisionism”. Nov 10 01:36
yuhong It isn’t but it is a bad excuse. Nov 10 01:36
yuhong Notice that I am certainly not defending MS’s illegal actions. Nov 10 01:37
yuhong On Netscape, have you heard of JSSS? Nov 10 01:37
schestowitz You are trying to justify the “Netscape killed itself” fairy tale. Nov 10 01:39
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dsmith_ hello all Nov 10 01:41
yuhong And even though is true, it is a bad excuse. Nov 10 01:42
yuhong for what MS did to Netscape. Nov 10 01:43
yuhong Which was my point. Nov 10 01:44
schestowitz hey, dsmith_ , long time, no talk. Nov 10 01:44
dsmith_ yep Nov 10 01:44
dsmith_ I do read your blog though Nov 10 01:44
schestowitz I have heaps of sellout laptopists to expose :-) Nov 10 01:44
dsmith_ lol Nov 10 01:44
schestowitz Got 3 or 4 so far … http://boycottnovell.com/ Nov 10 01:44
schestowitz About 4 more to go. Nov 10 01:44
schestowitz …saving the best for last. Nov 10 01:44
dsmith_ good Nov 10 01:45
schestowitz Microsoft should be ripped for this. Nov 10 01:45
schestowitz But I think there are no proper laws against it… not in the US anyway. Nov 10 01:45
dsmith_ its like a automobile manufacturer giving away a car Nov 10 01:45
dsmith_ just say good things about it Nov 10 01:46
dsmith_ haha Nov 10 01:46
dsmith_ btw I look at “7″////b;eh Nov 10 01:46
schestowitz Do they do that? Nov 10 01:46
dsmith_ btw I look at “7″…bleh Nov 10 01:46
dsmith_ h3ll no Nov 10 01:46
schestowitz In order to look at Vista7 you need to get the full ‘experience. Nov 10 01:46
schestowitz You need to get the $2000 -feature- schwag. Nov 10 01:47
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*dsmith_ passes on the so-called *full* exp. Nov 10 01:47
schestowitz But dsmith_ Nov 10 01:47
dsmith_ I dont like using Crack Nov 10 01:47
schestowitz For car makers to give away cars is one thing. Nov 10 01:47
schestowitz The things is… Nov 10 01:47
schestowitz Microsoft makes software, not PCs. Nov 10 01:48
schestowitz A better analogy would be a maker of car radios giving away cars as gifts… Nov 10 01:48
schestowitz Well, on ‘indefinite loans”, of course *win wink* Nov 10 01:48
dsmith_ hmmmm, naw Nov 10 01:49
dsmith_ better analogy would be engines.. Nov 10 01:50
dsmith_ not radios Nov 10 01:50
dsmith_ but anyway… Nov 10 01:50
dsmith_ $2000, crimney.. I could buy 4-5 Linux notebooks and obtain better performance! Nov 10 01:51
schestowitz Yes Nov 10 01:54
schestowitz Engines are physical though. Nov 10 01:54
schestowitz Software does not cost anything for Microsoft to give. Nov 10 01:54
dsmith_ true, I think they figured $5 Billion to develop Vista Nov 10 01:58
dsmith_ hard to believe Nov 10 01:58
schestowitz Haha. Nov 10 02:04
schestowitz They calculate what…? Nov 10 02:04
schestowitz 5-6 years of development? Nov 10 02:04
schestowitz 4-5 oh which were thrown to the wastebasket when operation Longhorn got the boot? Nov 10 02:04
schestowitz That’s like saying you’ve been gardening all day after taking 12 hours to nap on the bench and then working for 1 hour. Nov 10 02:06
schestowitz Linux Foundation caught up with the marketing hype and did some ‘study’ with big numbers. It’s all about PERCEIVED VALUE. Nov 10 02:06
dsmith_ perceived, operative word Nov 10 02:23
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schestowitz gn Nov 10 04:58
Eruaran hi Nov 10 05:05
macabe hello Nov 10 05:58
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ZiggyFish1 Microsoft will want to do well with Windows 7 Nov 10 09:06
ZiggyFish1 even if the journalist are bribed, Microsoft can’t bribe Users (can, they afford to?) Nov 10 09:07
ZiggyFish1 anyway Windows 7 looks like Linux 2006. Nov 10 09:09
MinceR hay Nov 10 09:32
tessier ZiggyFish1: They won’t bribe users. They will blackmail. Nov 10 09:36
ZiggyFish1 lol Nov 10 09:41
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schestowitz Oh Gosh…  http://online.wsj.com/article/SB… ( Bailout Bill Provided Tech Workers With Tax Relief for Stock Options ) “The recent $700 billion rescue package to bolster the financial system also threw a lifeline to thousands of people who owed taxes on stock options dating to the technology-stock crash of 2000.” Looting of public wealth Nov 10 10:20
schestowitz “Technically, the workers could claim credits under the AMT for “overpaying” the tax. But the law generally limited the credit to $3,000 a year, meaning some workers would have to wait hundreds of years to recover their money. The bailout law allows workers who paid the AMT to reclaim the money in two years; those who hadn’t paid won’t have to pay the tax.” Nov 10 10:21
schestowitz Stealing from the public for ‘good’ use… to feed some more fat cats. Nov 10 10:22
tessier Glad I didn’t have to pay AMT on my options Nov 10 10:28
schestowitz An awful lot of spin (suddenly netbooks are /bad/ for GNU/Linux?): http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/… In another trollish article, some guy call Linux a religion (like Gods and stuff). An insult for attention? Nov 10 10:45
MinceR he’s in denial Nov 10 10:46
MinceR microsoft is a religion Nov 10 10:46
MinceR crApple is a religion Nov 10 10:46
MinceR FLOSS is technology Nov 10 10:46
schestowitz Yes. Nov 10 10:47
schestowitz Which is why I didn’t put the URL here. They use insults to characterise it as something dangerous. I can accept “Linux — and especially GNU — has a partly political agenda”, but religion??? Watch this document from Microsoft (on “Jihad”): http://boycottnovell.com/wp-co… Nov 10 10:49
schestowitz http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-sep-d… “The Republicans made a big effort to steal the election by stopping 6 million people from voting. They may have succeeded in stealing the Georgia senate election.” Nov 10 10:50
schestowitz “Oh!! Those ‘annoying’ Linux users. They don’t accept corruption and they don’t ignore it either.” Nov 10 10:51
schestowitz http://www.itwire.com/content/view… ( HP recalls tens of thousands of notebook batteries ) Nov 10 10:52
schestowitz http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?title=i_hav… “My concession is that I have been too cynical before. I had given up on my country. I had seen too many former friends in the past eight years turn to enemies because they suddenly came out Red (as in Red State) and I would not be a party to their terror-mongering.” Nov 10 11:00
schestowitz Nov 10 11:00
schestowitz Mind you, this is only the beginning. Do you have any idea how much mopping up we have to do? The Patriot Act, the Iraq War, the housing market crash, the recession, the erosion of personal liberties, the scary-big-number deficit. All of that has to be undone, just to climb back up to where we were eight years ago.” Nov 10 11:00
schestowitz Finland’s flawed e-voting scheme – blame the voters? < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/1… >. I know a company that blames users and third-party developers for problems too. Nov 10 11:09
zoobab evoting = civil war Nov 10 11:28
zoobab Obama seemed to have voted on electronic machines according to some pics I saw in a newspaper Nov 10 11:28
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schestowitz Nicely laid out.. http://risto.kurppa.fi/blog/the-open… Nov 10 12:12
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seller_liar I do not like this project Nov 10 12:28
seller_liar www.ikvm.net Nov 10 12:28
seller_liar we need to do the reverse! Nov 10 12:28
schestowitz “IKVM.NET is an implementation of Java for Mono and the Microsoft .NET Framework. It includes the following components:” Nov 10 12:30
seller_liar and give good codenames , example “pay me four patentz” Nov 10 12:30
seller_liar sharp-java Nov 10 12:30
schestowitz How long was it out for? Nov 10 12:30
seller_liar a lot of time Nov 10 12:30
seller_liar a project which does the reverse is a good way to show the m$-novell problems Nov 10 12:31
seller_liar imbue .net in java Nov 10 12:31
seller_liar sharp-java Nov 10 12:31
seller_liar but I’m not a programmer Nov 10 12:31
schestowitz the site is masked buts seems to be running on Windows .. http://www.ikvm.net/userguide/iNstAll.htmL Nov 10 12:32
seller_liar I dont like ikvm! Nov 10 12:32
schestowitz seller_liar: see Miansoft Nov 10 12:32
seller_liar Ikvm enslaves java in .net Nov 10 12:32
schestowitz Mainsoft Nov 10 12:32
seller_liar but it only works on java ee Nov 10 12:34
seller_liar not in java se Nov 10 12:34
schestowitz I’m always suspicious of FOSSy sites that run Windows, such as IKVM.NET Nov 10 12:34
seller_liar very strange Nov 10 12:34
seller_liar the site favicon resemble the apache project Nov 10 12:34
seller_liar this mainsoft software is free ? Nov 10 12:35
schestowitz How old is this project? Nov 10 12:35
schestowitz seller_liar: no it’s not free, AFAIK Nov 10 12:35
seller_liar I do not know Nov 10 12:35
seller_liar damn, it’s sad Nov 10 12:35
schestowitz http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.ikvm.net/ Nov 10 12:36
schestowitz 2003: http://web.archive.org/web/2003032004165… Nov 10 12:36
schestowitz 2004: http://web.archive.org/web/20031222194… Nov 10 12:36
seller_liar five years and java does not have a reverse implementation Nov 10 12:36
schestowitz Roughly the same since 2005: http://web.archive.org/web/200501… Nov 10 12:37
schestowitz It doesn’t seem like a big threat. The core which is the Microsoft-controlled Novell is a bigger issue. Nov 10 12:37
seller_liar but java can explore .net .Enslave net in bytecode Nov 10 12:38
seller_liar for better java ,not better .net Nov 10 12:39
seller_liar I’m bit worried because people are uing the .net instead of java Nov 10 12:40
seller_liar These people is very stupid because , they does not worry about ethical problemas Nov 10 12:41
schestowitz They don’t know. Nov 10 12:41
schestowitz Also, Microsoft is whitewashing the media with luring-in messages. Nov 10 12:42
schestowitz “Microsoft is not against open source” Nov 10 12:42
schestowitz “Microsoft stresses open source involvement” etc. Nov 10 12:42
seller_liar schestowitz: These people does not know nothing about ethical problems Nov 10 12:42
schestowitz Expect lots more of this in the week to come (well, this week) because of ApacheCon. Nov 10 12:42
seller_liar These people only worry about money, better and better cars and etc Nov 10 12:43
schestowitz Microsoft pressure journos for such publicity, as I’ve shown a lot recently (also last night) Nov 10 12:43
schestowitz Yes Nov 10 12:43
schestowitz It’s to do with education. Nov 10 12:43
schestowitz Money comes before everything. Nov 10 12:43
schestowitz They also cling onto people with money and try to make friends with them, hoping for something in return. Nov 10 12:43
seller_liar Yes ,I know Nov 10 12:44
schestowitz THat’s why I like RMS’s attitude. He doesn’t befriend the white-collar money-obsessed people. Nov 10 12:44
schestowitz You can see lots of the opposite in the likes of Forbes and Fortune. Nov 10 12:44
seller_liar conquering the personal emotions is the most powerful weapon Nov 10 12:44
schestowitz Fitzpatrick and Gates are one example… having their ‘flirts’ in the press. Nov 10 12:44
schestowitz In the same way, Matt Asay (Dana balankenhorn calls him “big money Matt”) is like a infatuated school girl around Tim O’Reilly. Nov 10 12:45
schestowitz They all dance around the people with money and/or influence , jumping for dollars. You see lots of the same with the likes of Jimmy Wales, Nick Carr… Nov 10 12:46
seller_liar Jimmy ? of wikipedia? Nov 10 12:46
schestowitz Watch Andy Updegrove’s blog where he no longer has the picture of him in a t-shirt. Nov 10 12:47
schestowitz He replaced it with a tight suit picture where he brags having Vint Cerf next to him and a cRapple Mac on his lap. Nov 10 12:47
seller_liar Ubuntu contains banshee ? Nov 10 12:47
schestowitz No yet, I think. Nov 10 12:47
seller_liar This is very good Nov 10 12:48
schestowitz I thinkg SUSE has it preinstalled, but I’m not sure. Nov 10 12:48
schestowitz /s/no/not/ thinkg/thin Nov 10 12:48
seller_liar Because some comments days ago , some user propose to put banshee in uubuntu Nov 10 12:48
schestowitz Of course. Nov 10 12:48
seller_liar Beagle now uses kyoto , the qt sharp Nov 10 12:48
schestowitz Either they don’t care about freedom or they are the Mono boosters we find in Ubuntu Forums. Nov 10 12:49
seller_liar of course ,qt sharp is optional Nov 10 12:49
seller_liar Yes ,I know Nov 10 12:49
schestowitz And Mono ain’t freedom. It’s the technology of freedom hate #1, next to Apple. Nov 10 12:49
seller_liar Stupid crApple , How people like this company? These people is very stupid Nov 10 12:51
seller_liar One interesting fact is m$ and apple does not cite the free opensource deficiences Nov 10 12:53
seller_liar But Apple cites a lot of deficiences of microstupid Nov 10 12:53
schestowitz Never on a cultural level. The ethical questions matter to neither. Nov 10 12:54
seller_liar for example Nov 10 12:54
seller_liar Apple criticises windowz vixta a lot Nov 10 12:54
seller_liar technically speaking Nov 10 12:54
seller_liar But m$ and apple does not cite the technical (not ethical) deficiences in freeopensource software Nov 10 12:55
seller_liar “He does not give a tip for enemy” Nov 10 12:56
seller_liar Because the enemy is more strong Nov 10 12:56
seller_liar And criticism is a tip for fixing the problems Nov 10 12:57
schestowitz They thrive in ‘mainstream’ old media Nov 10 12:57
schestowitz As that medium dies out, things will get harder for them Nov 10 12:57
schestowitz Then it’s bloggers that have impact and they BRIBE them. Nov 10 12:57
schestowitz I think I made a case about it yesterday. :-) Nov 10 12:58
seller_liar Yes, I see a lot of bloggers cited here Nov 10 12:58
schestowitz Hy dif these bloggers not review Ubuntu 8.10? Nov 10 12:58
seller_liar But ,is a lot of bloggers! Nov 10 12:58
schestowitz No free laptop? Nov 10 12:58
schestowitz No Sugar Daddy to suck up to? Nov 10 12:58
schestowitz Why did IDG/IDC not have such raving reviews from bloggers ‘bribed by Canonical’? Nov 10 12:59
seller_liar I know roy ,I know Nov 10 12:59
seller_liar I’m not visiting idg and other sites now Nov 10 12:59
schestowitz It doesn’t matter if lots of bloggers exist, seller_liar. Microsoft ONLY MAKES VISTA 7 AVAILABLE to ones whom it likes. You and me have no access to it. There’s no transparency, so they control public image. Nov 10 13:00
seller_liar I’m using adblock sometimes Nov 10 13:00
seller_liar “i do not like 7″ Nov 10 13:00
seller_liar “If you like 7 ,you gain a copy!” Nov 10 13:00
seller_liar “I like 7 now” Nov 10 13:01
seller_liar “Hey people ,I like 7″ Nov 10 13:01
schestowitz Yes Nov 10 13:01
schestowitz But there’s another point. Nov 10 13:01
schestowitz By giving them gifts they send the message “say good things about us and we’ll give you more” Nov 10 13:02
seller_liar tell me Nov 10 13:02
schestowitz It’s like animals. Nov 10 13:02
schestowitz You ‘bribe’ them with treats. Nov 10 13:02
seller_liar Yes, that ‘ s it Nov 10 13:02
schestowitz Mary Jo Foley mailed me about it. Nov 10 13:02
schestowitz She calls this “reward and punishment”, IIRC Nov 10 13:02
seller_liar Curiosity to gain a crippled copy ,makes the user change the opinions about 7 sins Nov 10 13:02
schestowitz If she criticises Microsoft they deny her access to Microsoft people. Nov 10 13:03
schestowitz The likes of Ina Friendshill become PR agents for them because they get money (access to seniors and all) that way. Nov 10 13:03
schestowitz Which is precisely why the “religion” analogy applies well to Microsoft, not Free software. Nov 10 13:03
seller_liar Gives the god blessing for everyone see ,and you gain god gifts Nov 10 13:04
MinceR someone should write an article on this, titled “Microsoft, The Cult” or something ;) Nov 10 13:05
seller_liar Yes, you posted a lot of links,but m$ bribes a lot of bloggers Nov 10 13:05
seller_liar is very hard to convince people to make a article like this Nov 10 13:05
schestowitz MinceR: the article already exists. Nov 10 13:06
schestowitz COmposed internally in fact. http://boycottnovell.com/wp-conte… This is your ‘bible’ Read it, study it. Nov 10 13:06
MinceR :) Nov 10 13:07
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0… Nov 10 13:07
schestowitz “Many participants and speakers referenced to the OOXML standardisation process, in particular were intrigued by the French AFNOR developments. Generally speakers feel concerned about OOXML to become a standard in governmental procurement. In private a government delegate compared Microsoft’s public affairs methods with the scientology cult.” Nov 10 13:07
schestowitz MS: 5: “”**Jihad** A Jihad is a road trip. in which an evangelist visits a large number of ISVs one-on-one to convince them to take some specific action. The classic Jihad is one focused on getting Tier A ISVs to commit to supporting a given technology by signing the technology’s Letter of Agreement (LOA – see above).” Nov 10 13:08
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seler_liar Why microshit uses cab? Nov 10 13:18
seler_liar I’m trying to use some chm files ,but I have to extract and read Nov 10 13:19
MinceR because of NIH syndrome Nov 10 13:19
seler_liar NIH? Nov 10 13:21
seler_liar about this Nov 10 13:21
seler_liar remember? Nov 10 13:22
seler_liar http://www.kyzer.me.uk/essays/giflzw/ Nov 10 13:22
seler_liar the gif case of patents Nov 10 13:22
MinceR Not Invented Here Nov 10 13:22
schestowitz GIF ought to have been banned from WWW. Nov 10 13:24
schestowitz They always sought patents-free ingredients. Nov 10 13:24
schestowitz But PNG wasn’t out yet… Nov 10 13:24
seler_liar m$ does not like png Nov 10 13:25
seler_liar and svg too Nov 10 13:25
seler_liar vrml is the eee version of svg Nov 10 13:25
schestowitz There should a policy along the lines of “you patent technology x, then x will be shunned”. Nov 10 13:25
schestowitz seler_liar: I’ll write about SVG this afternoon Nov 10 13:25
schestowitz http://penguinpetes.com/b2evo/index.php?titl… Nov 10 13:25
schestowitz “Point three: Silverlight, as noted in its Wikipedia page, is also intended as an SVG-killer. This isn’t just bad news; it’s a tragedy. All modern web browsers except Microsoft Internet Explorer support and render SVG markup directly. If SVG was supported cross-platform, you’d see a new, beautiful web begin to form, where AJAX combines with SVG to create a Flash replacement. You’d see as much of a leap in web design with SVG as we Nov 10 13:25
schestowitz saw with AJAX. Score: 2 bad, 1 good.” Nov 10 13:25
schestowitz IOW, Microsoft saw a powerful standard and it had to replace it with a proprietary one. Nov 10 13:26
schestowitz It also shoved VML down ISO’s throat with OOXML. Part of the Great Crime of 2006-2008. Nov 10 13:26
seler_liar Yes,the very old strategies of microsoft Nov 10 13:29
seler_liar Because this ,I do not like permissive licences Nov 10 13:29
seler_liar http://www.adequacy.org/public/storie… Nov 10 13:31
seler_liar big text about micro$oft Nov 10 13:32
schestowitz Ah.. Nov 10 13:32
schestowitz The Second Coming, eh? Stories were written about how much money Microsoft spent manipulating the media at the time. Nov 10 13:33
seler_liar but this text is a bit old Nov 10 13:33
schestowitz And in 1998 Microsoft stopped being profitable I hear. Nov 10 13:33
schestowitz Lost $18bn that year, according to The Economist. Gates resigned from his post Nov 10 13:33
seler_liar this is good Nov 10 13:34
seler_liar Vole must die! Nov 10 13:34
seler_liar I live in hope Nov 10 13:37
seler_liar about stupid m$ cab formats Nov 10 13:37
seler_liar http://www.kyzer.me.uk/pack/convlit/ Nov 10 13:37
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twitter Circuit City is bankrupt, http://www.reuters.com/article/d… Nov 10 14:54
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schestowitz They used Linux in the tills. Nov 10 14:58
schestowitz http://www.linux.com/feature/38059 http://www.screaming-penguin.com/node/3659 Nov 10 14:59
schestowitz If only they were smart enough to VEND it. Nov 10 14:59
kentma Circuit city didn’t have any linux machines in the shops I looked at. Nov 10 14:59
kentma They didn’t even stock the N770/800/810 web tablets… Nov 10 15:00
kentma let alone an Asus Eee Nov 10 15:00
twitter They were part of the M$ Vendor chain, like CompUSA Nov 10 15:00
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kentma ah, I didn’t realise that.  They appeared to have acquired some of the old Tandy store sites – did MS buy-up Tandy? Nov 10 15:01
kentma Sorry, it was Radio Shack in the US. Nov 10 15:01
kentma and Canada. Nov 10 15:01
schestowitz Is Dixons evolving yet? They complained about VIsta. Nov 10 15:07
schestowitz They got ChannelStuffed(C) by defective computers saddled by the VistaBug. Nov 10 15:07
kentma Well, they’ve dumped the Dixons high-street name altogether now Nov 10 15:07
schestowitz *with Nov 10 15:07
*harrytuttle (i=528c0ab2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-620010b6f7460897) has joined #boycottnovell Nov 10 15:10
*kentma has quit (“Leaving.”) Nov 10 15:14
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twitter ” Oddly enough, beyond service offerings like Circuit City’s Firedog and Best Buy’s GeekSquad, DVDs are one of the last profit margin frontiers for retailers. But even that party can’t last forever.” M$ friendly fool, August 2007 http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2007/08/… Nov 10 15:33
_doug Harry Tuttle, Brazil .. freelance repairman and assassin  .. :) Nov 10 15:34
twitter Roughly Drafted summed up the retail situation well, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jo… Nov 10 15:35
harrytuttle _doug :-) Nov 10 15:36
twitter M$’s monopoly made hardware a “commodity” Nov 10 15:36
_doug Hey Harry … Nov 10 15:36
twitter Tuttle, “We’re all in this together” Nov 10 15:36
harrytuttle yeah, thats the catch-phrase of my blog .. were all in IT together :-) Nov 10 15:36
twitter Buttle’s body bag and bill were for him and his family alone. Nov 10 15:37
twitter Helpless and divided, we are all Buttle. Nov 10 15:38
_doug don’t forget your 27B/6 .. Nov 10 15:38
harrytuttle just here to mention that Roy’s doing a great job counting the bribes Nov 10 15:38
_doug bribes, don’t you meant consultancy fees Nov 10 15:39
_doug … Bloody paperwork Nov 10 15:40
twitter CompUSA, Circuit City and other retail failures are showing that the Windows monopoly only worked well for M$.  The others colluded but drowned in a sea of shallow margins.  With them gone and unable to sabotage things like EEE PC, hardware makers will increasingly turn to free software to differentiate themselves. Nov 10 15:41
_doug later .. Nov 10 15:44
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schestowitz I agree on the point of commodity. Microsoft: the Lada of computers. Just make sure your wheels stay on when you drive… Nov 10 15:53
MinceR ladas aren’t _that_ bad Nov 10 15:54
twitter AIG, “burns through cash at a record rate”  translation, stuffing tax money in pocket as fast as they can.  http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news… Nov 10 15:59
schestowitz MinceR: it was an analogy. :-) Nov 10 16:00
schestowitz Is there some island in this world that remains isolated from the Global Corruption? Nov 10 16:00
schestowitz Iceland got whacked, despite being seemingly isolated. Nov 10 16:01
MinceR it probably wasn’t all that isolated Nov 10 16:01
MinceR i need to buy an island and start a new kind of society Nov 10 16:01
schestowitz harrytuttle: watch them trying to slink away… http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/09/harry… Nov 10 16:05
schestowitz MinceR: it’s too hard without imports, so you develop global dependency sooner or later. Nov 10 16:05
MinceR that’s why all menial labor must be automatized Nov 10 16:06
schestowitz [unless you live in caves without medicine or machinery] Nov 10 16:06
MinceR and produce everything Nov 10 16:06
schestowitz Maybe you need to travel to Peru or Mongolia or something for a while. RMS seems fond of such places where culture trumps money to an extent.. Nov 10 16:06
MinceR though some imports don’t necessarily mean dependency Nov 10 16:06
MinceR as long as you can get resources from many sources Nov 10 16:07
schestowitz MinceR: you need to export in exchange for the import. Nov 10 16:07
twitter Circuit City was looted last year.  Bonuses to executives, pink slips for worker bees.  http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0… Nov 10 16:07
schestowitz That’s what happened in Africa ATM, but they mostly get exploited (low wages) Nov 10 16:07
schestowitz And Chairman Gates helps the murder of Nigerian children: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/01… Nov 10 16:08
twitter Interesting, Circuit City was migrating to Suse in 2004 http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?… Nov 10 16:09
schestowitz twitter: wait until next year. It gets worse, according to predictions. The key now is cherishment (is that a word?) of culture and society, not the Mighty Green Buck. Nov 10 16:09
twitter that sounds better, not worse. Nov 10 16:09
schestowitz twitter: they used it, not sold it. Anyway, less revenue for NOVL now. :-) Nov 10 16:09
twitter Ballmer SMASH Novell, SMASH Circuit City Nov 10 16:10
twitter the problem is that the looters got all the money and the rest of us get to cherish what’s left Nov 10 16:10
twitter M$’s actions are clearly criminal and responsible for the retail collapse.  These chains have been losing money for years, it’s not just the credit crunch. Nov 10 16:12
schestowitz twitter: well, the divide (economical) expands in western society. Nov 10 16:15
schestowitz I wonder what this means to distribution of wealth between the east and west, north and south. Nov 10 16:15
schestowitz One sure thing is that there is plenty of opportunities to ‘recruit’ people to join the cause of Freedom now. People want change when they are unhappy or unemployed (therefore finding time to ask questions and pursue solutions). The monopolists know this and that’s why they put suppressive laws in place… policing. Nov 10 16:17
twitter Got a link to Jim Alchin’s “we have to slaughter Novell before they get to strong” statement? Nov 10 16:22
schestowitz Yes Nov 10 16:25
schestowitz http://edge-op.org/iowa/www.iowacon… Nov 10 16:26
schestowitz “We must slow down Novell. The strongest action that we could take would  be to include networking with Windows for essentially a zero uplift in  price (maybe minor COGS uplift). As you said Bill, it has to be dramatic.” Nov 10 16:26
*_doug (n=configna@unaffiliated/confignak) has joined #boycottnovell Nov 10 16:27
_doug http://www.alexa.com/dat… Nov 10 16:27
twitter thanks Nov 10 16:27
twitter I thought there was a more recent quote, about 2002. Nov 10 16:28
schestowitz _doug: it’s useless. Nov 10 16:29
schestowitz Alex is IE/MS Nov 10 16:29
schestowitz In BN, only about 12% use IE Nov 10 16:29
schestowitz Netcraft ranks us 3700th. Groklaw is 1200th, for comparison. Nov 10 16:29
_doug The OOXML Spec :) http://fanaticattack.com/wp-content/u… Nov 10 16:31
_doug What’s this about ? Nov 10 16:34
_doug http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/10… Nov 10 16:34
_doug ‘Who would have imagined, I asked the audience at NXT, a future in which Microsoft would publish – on a Microsoft web property no less – articles such as “Installing Apache on Windows”‘ Nov 10 16:38
schestowitz Looks like someone sogrady says “boycott_novell” ;-) Nov 10 16:38
_doug http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2008/03… Nov 10 16:38
_doug sounds totally unbiased to me :) Nov 10 16:38
schestowitz :-) Nov 10 16:38
schestowitz Well, they need business. Nov 10 16:38
schestowitz it’s a tough economy, you know? Nov 10 16:38
schestowitz Forget about who you do business with: http://boycottnovell.com/microsoft… Nov 10 16:39
_doug “No one questions the need to acquire software patents, to be sure. Whether you love the current system or hate it as I do, it will punish vendors that do not acquire software patents at least for defensive purposes” Nov 10 16:40
_doug who uses the phrase defensive patents ? Nov 10 16:40
schestowitz Haha. Microsoft still threatens to say FLOSS. IBM did business with the Germans, so.. Nov 10 16:40
schestowitz _doug: monopolists use this word. Nov 10 16:40
schestowitz “defensive” That’s how they market it. Nov 10 16:41
_doug Regarding paid-for consulatacies, if you repeatidly trash your customers in public, you end up not having any .. Nov 10 16:41
schestowitz They perceive it a guarantee though. When they go dim like Avistar or SCO, then they start suing. Nov 10 16:42
schestowitz “Defensive guns”. Guns defend people. Nov 10 16:42
_doug “Redmonk: Microsoft most important company in RSS” Nov 10 16:42
_doug http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=2363 Nov 10 16:42
schestowitz Bear in mind that Microsoft whine about being sued by trolls. Well, there is _NO SUCH THING_ as defensive patents against trolls. They haven’t products. Nov 10 16:43
schestowitz http://www.redmonk.com/jgovernor/ar…   “The requested URL /jgovernor/archives.html/001178.html was not found on this server.” “The A-list may prefer pure web-based solutions but the Vista wave will take feeds into the mainstream….” Nov 10 16:46
schestowitz Redmond (2006): “Vista wave will take feeds into the mainstream….” Nov 10 16:46
schestowitz *LOL* Nov 10 16:46
schestowitz What is Vista? I hear some things about a Vista 7 thingie. Nov 10 16:46
schestowitz Redmon[d|k] Nov 10 16:46
_doug The A-list may prefer pure web-based solutions but the Vista wave will take feeds into the mainstream…. allowing Metcalfe’s Law to kick in. Nov 10 16:47
_doug Remember when Microsoft adopted TCP/IP? HTML? XML? Nov 10 16:47
_doug Embrace, extend, and explode the market. Nov 10 16:47
_doug If feeds are to move into the mainstream its going to need offerings packaged for both mainstream consumer and enterprise users. I just can’t see anyone else out there set up to provide such a package. Nov 10 16:47
_doug IBM? Apparently doesn’t want to build a Microsoft client alternative, not one that will touch consumers anyway. Maybe if IBM does something like this it will be in the game. Nov 10 16:48
_doug I have a post in mind about why Vista is going to be major launch, like Win 95, which not even the Microsoft Vista team seems to believe. But its not the OS that will sell the OS, its the integrated handling of standard specifications that will sell the OS Nov 10 16:48
_doug _doug says: predicting the future is always difficult .. :) Nov 10 16:49
_doug So this post is really just a flameholder. Or maybe a prediction for early 07 Nov 10 16:49
_doug Longhorn was technology in search of a set of use cases. Vista on the other hand, will be technology packaged to fulfil a set of use cases, loosely defined as Web 2.0. That’s a big difference. Nov 10 16:49
_doug Disclaimer: IBM, Microsoft and Sun are clients. Google and Apple are not. Nov 10 16:50
_doug posted at January 6, 2006 Nov 10 16:52
_doug http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/bl… Nov 10 16:52
_doug I predict: small embedded Internet aware devices will be huge, the real money will be made providing online services and content .. Nov 10 16:54
_doug whoever owns the Intertubes will have a license to make money .. Nov 10 16:54
schestowitz _doug: Microsoft has patents on RSS Nov 10 16:58
schestowitz There was an outrage at the time, EEE being cited as a reason as well. Nov 10 16:58
schestowitz EEE is not a side effect; it’s a strategy (watch the Halloween Document). They are, in principle, against standard protocols that work across platforms. Nov 10 16:58
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