01.30.09

^{Gemini version available ♊︎}

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: January 30th, 2009 – Part 1

Posted in IRC Logs at 10:35 pm by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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flyback	good	Jan 30 00:05
*flyback applauds america		Jan 30 00:05
schestowitz	“BoycottNovell does an excellent service – maintaining a single site where all the tricks employed by Microsoft can be put on display for the whole world to see.” < http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?l… >	Jan 30 00:06
flyback	the majority of the mainstream media is unwilling to cover the nonsensical junk science of the right-wing think tanks and their cadre of scientists for hire.	Jan 30 00:07
flyback	oh	Jan 30 00:07
flyback	you mean like them all unwilling to cover when a kid found a major miscalculation in global warming 100 yr trends?	Jan 30 00:07
flyback	that even some proponents of global warming say it’s better to have the correct numbers	Jan 30 00:07
schestowitz	proponents?	Jan 30 00:07
schestowitz	I wouldn’t call it that	Jan 30 00:08
flyback	people who agree on global warming	Jan 30 00:08
schestowitz	No-one is a proponent, but some deny the impact of human machinations	Jan 30 00:08
schestowitz	Temperature is far from the only issue	Jan 30 00:08
schestowitz	Another is resources being finite, and not just oil.	Jan 30 00:09
MinceR	gn	Jan 30 00:09
schestowitz	With deforestation you are left with less oxygen and less use of to to produce edible substance for the food chain.	Jan 30 00:10
flyback	well no arguement with replanting trees	Jan 30 00:10
flyback	that’s just common sense	Jan 30 00:10
schestowitz	It’s happening.	Jan 30 00:10
schestowitz	Though consumption o lumber will stagnate with the bad economy.	Jan 30 00:10
flyback	I also don’t have a problem with reduction of pollution, I just still not convinced on co2	Jan 30 00:11
flyback	I don’t mind increase energy efficiency of appliances either	Jan 30 00:11
schestowitz	That’s old news	Jan 30 00:11
flyback	i	Jan 30 00:11
schestowitz	The denails came more recently.	Jan 30 00:11
flyback	i am just sick of all this shit of all these morons trying to weigh even having sex in terms of carbon	Jan 30 00:11
schestowitz	Were were told this at school when I was under 10. The denials came much later — a propaganda surge, like the tobacco companies’.	Jan 30 00:12
schestowitz	LOL	Jan 30 00:12
flyback	blah blah blah	Jan 30 00:12
schestowitz	Showers are probably much more weight-worthy, next to automobiles.	Jan 30 00:12
flyback	and as far as I am concerned	Jan 30 00:12
flyback	these assholes and teachers who go along with it trying to scare little kids to influnce their parents about global warming	Jan 30 00:12
flyback	are no better than child molestors	Jan 30 00:13
schestowitz	A plane will produce half a tonne of CO2 _per passenger_ on a long flight.	Jan 30 00:13
flyback	and deserve the same penalty	Jan 30 00:13
flyback	bullet to the head	Jan 30 00:13
schestowitz	Teachers?	Jan 30 00:13
schestowitz	That’s a but extreme, no?	Jan 30 00:13
flyback	no it’s not	Jan 30 00:13
flyback	terrorifying little children is bullshit	Jan 30 00:14
flyback	this is the shit hitler did in schools	Jan 30 00:14
schestowitz	But he promoted racism and hatred	Jan 30 00:14
schestowitz	Here you talk about encouragement/discouragement of action	Jan 30 00:14
flyback	that too	Jan 30 00:14
flyback	he was the biggest cock sucker ever	Jan 30 00:14
schestowitz	And since you brought it up, the US does that too	Jan 30 00:14
flyback	now he can suck cock in hell	Jan 30 00:14
schestowitz	Goebbels-ism lives on	Jan 30 00:15
flyback	whatever the fuck that is	Jan 30 00:15
schestowitz	The meaning of reference?	Jan 30 00:15
schestowitz	*or	Jan 30 00:15
flyback	whatever stupid ism crap someone made up	Jan 30 00:15
schestowitz	I don’t know if there is a word for it	Jan 30 00:16
schestowitz	But the term was sort of coin and attribted to a certain pattern	Jan 30 00:16
schestowitz	Propaganda predates Nazi Germany	Jan 30 00:16
schestowitz	It came from the PR industry	Jan 30 00:16
schestowitz	In its gentler form it’s used to subjugate and arouse attraction to distraction and superficial things in life	Jan 30 00:17
schestowitz	Radicalism is entirely separate. You could classify many of today’s exposures (everyday ones) as “propaganda”, and likewise, to borrow Ron Paul’s word, you could call the US regime “soft facism” (that’s what a Ron Paul called it)	Jan 30 00:18
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schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/29… (Indian embassy website hack part of wider assault)	Jan 30 00:40
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schestowitz	wasabi: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/01/na… “However, the term “intellectual privilege” seems to work. It’s got the right initial letters, which is a huge win! But it also correctly describes the actual nature of the temporary rights we’re considering.”	Jan 30 01:18
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*flyback can’t wait for aids to become airborn and wipe out mankind		Jan 30 01:40
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MinceR	geekings	Jan 30 09:06
schestowitz	Morning	Jan 30 09:06
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schestowitz	Yahoo! lobs! Briefcase! into! rubbish! bin! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/30…	Jan 30 10:01
schestowitz	MS division lays off 10%: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/30/c…	Jan 30 10:02
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schestowitz	“The workforce reductions will save Citrix about $50m a year in costs, and the company will book charges in the range of $19m to $23m, mostly in the first quarter of 2009, to cover the layoffs.”	Jan 30 10:05
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schestowitz	That’s just another Microsoft subsidiary (ish) laying people off.	Jan 30 10:06
schestowitz	Feds: IT admin plotted to erase Fannie Mae < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/29/fa… >	Jan 30 10:07
schestowitz	Chartered Semiconductor Cuts 600 Staff as Downturn Worsens < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158618/charte… >	Jan 30 11:04
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schestowitz	Good evening, anthony.	Jan 30 11:10
schestowitz	Fired Fannie Mae Contractor Tried to Crash Network < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158596/fired_fa… >	Jan 30 11:10
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Omar87	Hi all	Jan 30 11:43
schestowitz	Hey, Omar87.	Jan 30 11:45
schestowitz	Omar87: 2 hours ago I watched this interesting video about daemonisation which I think you’ll find interesting.	Jan 30 11:50
schestowitz	It starts here about 5 minutes from the start http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0RfI… and continues here http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T_vc2YMo2ZE&amp…	Jan 30 11:51
Omar87	schestowitz: What is it about?	Jan 30 12:00
schestowitz	Daemonisation in Hollywood.	Jan 30 12:00
schestowitz	I hate propaganda.	Jan 30 12:00
schestowitz	The 10-part mashup is wide ranging, mainly a criticism of authority that deceives and subjugates. it’s worth a watch.	Jan 30 12:02
schestowitz	Google slaughters animals…? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/30/who…	Jan 30 12:08
Omar87	schestowitz: Are you sure you’re talking about Google? Not KFC?	Jan 30 12:12
schestowitz		Jan 30 12:13
schestowitz	Well, it’s Google’s knowledge-lusting vehicles	Jan 30 12:13
Omar87		Jan 30 12:13
schestowitz	http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/techno… http://thedw.us/post/74073534/google-maps-fi…	Jan 30 12:14
schestowitz	http://digg.com/tech_news/Google_…	Jan 30 12:14
schestowitz	Aperi dies on its arse < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0… >	Jan 30 12:20
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schestowitz	http://www.tuxmachines.org/apache2-default/ “tuxmachines will return if you will. We are in the process of moving files at this time and should be online later today. “	Jan 30 12:25
schestowitz	Ewww… “Bartz tells Ballmer “eat my shorts”” < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/7… >	Jan 30 12:36
schestowitz	ushimitsudoki: is your site down?	Jan 30 12:40
schestowitz	Oh, wait, it responded after like 2 minutes (!!)	Jan 30 12:41
schestowitz	Poor Google’s PR gaffe… “If Google Earth didn’t exist, would they have used a tourist map, he added.” < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new… >	Jan 30 12:46
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schestowitz	Thig man’s upset.. I’m Not Boycotting FOSDEM About Novell, So Please Stop Saying That < http://www.news.software.coop/im-not-boycot… >	Jan 30 13:06
schestowitz	Apple vs. Palm: the In-Depth Analysis < http://www.osnews.com/story/20876/Apple_… >	Jan 30 13:13
schestowitz	” Many of the Haitians who overthrew Aristide’s government (in a coup organized by the Bush regime) now are accused of drug trafficking by the US. I suspect that other parts of the US government, those which worked with these people in the coup, are protecting them now.” http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-nov-f…	Jan 30 13:14
schestowitz	Shrinking Glaciers Have Put Tibetans in the Path of Climate Chaos < http://www.alternet.org/story/121871/ >. Recipe for more confrontation . Climate crisis leading to wars/nuclear crises.	Jan 30 13:15
schestowitz	Attenborough reveals creationist hate mail for not crediting God < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ja… >	Jan 30 13:16
schestowitz	“Sir David Attenborough has revealed that he receives hate mail from viewers for failing to credit God in his documentaries. In an interview with this week’s Radio Times about his latest documentary, on Charles Darwin and natural selection, the broadcaster said: “They tell me to burn in hell and good riddance.””	Jan 30 13:16
schestowitz	“Two courts in the UK have now agreed that the minute of B’liar’s cabinet meeting, which discussed invading Iraq, must be published so people can judge whether the invasion was illegal.” http://www.stallman.org/archives/2008-nov-fe…	Jan 30 13:17
schestowitz	“That means we have a chance of seeing B’liar behind bars. But that will not automatically restore the Rights of Englishmen which he has mostly abolished.”	Jan 30 13:17
schestowitz	GNU is the way forward < http://www.thezimbabwetimes.com/?p=10685 >	Jan 30 13:35
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kentma	he should be behind bars, I think	Jan 30 15:12
schestowitz	Instead he’s at the bar	Jan 30 15:13
kentma	his mrs certainly is	Jan 30 15:13
schestowitz	LOL	Jan 30 15:13
schestowitz	Oh, by the way Mark, Linux Format (Magazine) got in touch with me last night	Jan 30 15:28
schestowitz	Simulated Wi-Fi Worm Infects Thousands Of Routers Overnight < http://www.darkreading.com/security/vulnerabi… >	Jan 30 15:29
PetoKraus	i wonder about that one	Jan 30 15:31
PetoKraus	i don’t know of any router using windows	Jan 30 15:31
PetoKraus	so how could possibly malware infect the router?	Jan 30 15:32
PetoKraus	Myers said that since wireless routers generally do not run antivirus software, there might not be a way to clean an infected router. But users can prevent most infection threats by using strong passwords and WPA — not WEP — for encryption.	Jan 30 15:32
PetoKraus	what the…?	Jan 30 15:32
kentma	schestowitz: what did the LF guys have to say?	Jan 30 15:33
PetoKraus	what’s this darkreading page	Jan 30 15:33
PetoKraus	a trollpost or what	Jan 30 15:33
kentma	darkreading? possibly. lightreading & heavyreading are Graham Finney and co – Graham’s very good.	Jan 30 15:35
PetoKraus	i’m talking about the link above	Jan 30 15:36
PetoKraus	http://www.darkreading.com/security/vulnera…	Jan 30 15:36
schestowitz	kentma: I thanked them for getting in touch because the guy who edits was running a small discussion on Mono. They asked for feedback from some members of our community, and their responses have been largely positive about Mono, with the general belief being that it’s beneficial.	Jan 30 15:36
PetoKraus	this is next one on tap	Jan 30 15:36
schestowitz	The editor knew that Boycott Novell takes a very strong stance on Mono, so he wanted to ensure they cover both sides of the story if possible. So I mailed him back.	Jan 30 15:36
schestowitz	PetoKraus: it comes via Windows machines that are connected to it.	Jan 30 15:36
kentma	excellent. Mono is, I believe, a very dangerous thing. It’s function is as “patent carrier”, a bit like releasing a diseased insect into a colony in order to kill the colony.	Jan 30 15:37
schestowitz	it’s similar to Samba or sendmail “sending” viruses. They merely transmit.	Jan 30 15:37
PetoKraus	but hell	Jan 30 15:37
PetoKraus	they are not stored on the router any way	Jan 30 15:37
PetoKraus	*in any way	Jan 30 15:37
kentma	PetoKraus: I see what you mean…	Jan 30 15:37
PetoKraus	and the study is requiring subscription	Jan 30 15:37
PetoKraus	i’m not paying 10$ for a piece of crap	Jan 30 15:37
PetoKraus	which has already been paid for by it’s taxpayers	Jan 30 15:38
schestowitz	kentma: biological analogies are not fancied by the Mono people	Jan 30 15:38
schestowitz	[H]omer called it “poisonware” and they don’t like it either… like “infection”..	Jan 30 15:38
kentma	“patent carrier” will do for me. It’s not biological. Maybe it’s like an aircraft carrier	Jan 30 15:38
kentma	It’s designed to kill, though, either way.	Jan 30 15:39
schestowitz	kentma: “If you want to quote some of the comments from that blog entry in your reply, that’s fine too – we just want to make sure we give equal space to both sides of the question! I know your site generally covers a wide range of Microsoft, Novell and interoperability issues, but for the purpose of this discussion we particularly want to focus on the influence Mono is having on the Linux world.”	Jan 30 15:39
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schestowitz	kentma: Jose_x wants to do an article proving that patents can exist in APIs	Jan 30 15:39
schestowitz	The Mono crowd consistently denies it (well, AlexH does)	Jan 30 15:40
kentma	possibly AlexH believes it too. Doesn’t make it correct, though.	Jan 30 15:41
-tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi all. One of a client servers appears to be having connectivity problems which we’re currently investigating. On our more positive note freenode turned 15 yesterday! Happy birthday everyone and thanks for using freenode!		Jan 30 15:43
schestowitz	They had exchanged over 200 comments in this thread	Jan 30 15:43
PetoKraus	hm	Jan 30 15:45
PetoKraus	http://tech.slashdot.org/comment…	Jan 30 15:45
schestowitz	http://tech.slashdot.org/comments…	Jan 30 15:49
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PetoKraus	yeah	Jan 30 16:01
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schestowitz	This is amazing: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/busine…	Jan 30 16:03
schestowitz	The MSBBC treats its columnist Bill Gates like he’s an ecnomist	Jan 30 16:03
schestowitz	Forget about professors of economics and Nobel laureates. Listen to a man who built a career from stealing other people’s ideas and then breaking laws…	Jan 30 16:04
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kentma	it’s confusing fiscal manipulation with the study of economics…	Jan 30 16:06
zer0c00l	he is isn’t a economist he is a cheat	Jan 30 16:06
zer0c00l	del is	Jan 30 16:06
twitter	What organizations are working for Free Science Journals?	Jan 30 16:08
schestowitz	zer0c00l: Dell?	Jan 30 16:10
schestowitz	From Davos also: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en…	Jan 30 16:10
zer0c00l	sorry i typed a extra is so i asked to delete it	Jan 30 16:11
zer0c00l	nothing else	Jan 30 16:11
zer0c00l		Jan 30 16:11
schestowitz	Video here: Putin to Dell: Make that BIC < http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/01… >	Jan 30 16:11
schestowitz	Elites playing Gods in Switzerland.	Jan 30 16:12
schestowitz	Watch him bitchslapped by Putin. Got to love it!	Jan 30 16:12
schestowitz	http://www.tgdaily.com/content… ( Putin rejects Dell’s offer of aid )	Jan 30 16:13
twitter	I was unable to watch the video to that. clive downloaded a low res flv file that barfed X when I tried to play it with kmplayer.	Jan 30 16:27
schestowitz	In Soviet Putin, video plays you	Jan 30 16:28
schestowitz	Renesas Cutting 2,500 Workers in Japan < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158621/re… > … a shame really because they do some Linux too.	Jan 30 16:29
schestowitz	Fujitsu Revises Outlook, Expects First Loss in Six Years < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158620/fu… >	Jan 30 16:29
twitter	In Putin’s Russia, Government regulates monopoly.	Jan 30 16:33
MinceR	In Soviet USA, business regulates government.	Jan 30 16:34
twitter	yes, we are so used to it that the normal situation sounds like a joke.	Jan 30 16:34
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schestowitz	Hey, jose	Jan 30 16:42
schestowitz	I want to post something about API patents	Jan 30 16:42
jose	what?	Jan 30 16:42
schestowitz	Oh wait.	Jan 30 16:43
jose	i have reworked the writing a few times	Jan 30 16:43
schestowitz	Jose_X	Jan 30 16:43
schestowitz	OK	Jan 30 16:43
jose	still need more time	Jan 30 16:43
*schestowitz thought he had misidentified		Jan 30 16:43
jose	what did you want to post	Jan 30 16:43
schestowitz	There’s an article about Mono coming to “print”	Jan 30 16:43
schestowitz	UK magazine	Jan 30 16:43
jose	when, about what, and what does this have to do wth patents	Jan 30 16:44
jose	..besides the risks of course	Jan 30 16:44
jose	do you want to provide a balancing reply?	Jan 30 16:44
jose	.. near the same time of publication?	Jan 30 16:44
jose	…moving to a diff topic for a second	Jan 30 16:45
schestowitz	The issue came up earlier	Jan 30 16:45
jose	[back to prior topic..] what issue?	Jan 30 16:45
schestowitz	Mono and patents	Jan 30 16:46
jose	so let me ask again.. is the need you have to post about patents/api related to the timing of this mono publication?	Jan 30 16:47
jose	i meant to say, “so let me ask differently”	Jan 30 16:47
schestowitz	jose: in a way, yes.	Jan 30 16:50
jose	i like the angle I am taking.. and there is some further insight.. but the article is still very unfinished (paragraphs that don’t work well into each other). and is still missing an important piece: examples	Jan 30 16:50
schestowitz	AlexH vanished again	Jan 30 16:50
jose	let me put something together in the next few hours and i’ll email you the draft with comments about what is missing.	Jan 30 16:50
schestowitz	As for Dan O’Brian, he vanished immediately after I’d pointed out that he’s posting from near Novell (Massachusetts). He did like 50 comments/day before that.	Jan 30 16:51
jose	i haven’t had as much time to put into that as I would like	Jan 30 16:52
schestowitz	Thanks.	Jan 30 16:52
jose	before i get to working on it then, let me mention some ideas about what balance sheet, cash flows, and income might be hiding.	Jan 30 16:54
jose	i’m just throwing this out since if things happen in the future, this might give insight.. but i’m not suggesting anyone (eg, ms) is doing any of this.	Jan 30 16:54
jose	.. is doing any of this in actuality today.	Jan 30 16:55
jose	i’m not an accountant and have limited knowledge.. keep that in mind	Jan 30 16:55
jose	ok.	Jan 30 16:55
jose	earnings:	Jan 30 16:55
jose	you make a huge multiyear sale and decide to book most of the gains up front in the earlier years.	Jan 30 16:56
jose	result: income statement will really be helped today	Jan 30 16:56
jose	the clients give some of that money today but not nearly all of it.	Jan 30 16:56
jose	how do you respond?	Jan 30 16:57
jose	your accounts receivable (an asset) grows…	Jan 30 16:57
jose	and you “invest” in that client.	Jan 30 16:57
jose	the “investment” reduces your cashflows naturally since it’s money you would have had coming but did not receive (or “sort of got but put right back into the investment”	Jan 30 16:58
jose	the balance sheet shows large numbers.. revenues and earnings	Jan 30 16:58
jose	you can then borrow money	Jan 30 16:58
jose	to fatten the cash	Jan 30 16:58
schestowitz	You are apt at programming, no?	Jan 30 16:59
jose	which you can then use to buy stock or dividends	Jan 30 16:59
jose	[why is schestowitz interrupting?]	Jan 30 16:59
schestowitz	We had a discussion about paper money last year, remember?	Jan 30 16:59
jose		Jan 30 16:59
schestowitz	Microsoft’s imaginary value	Jan 30 16:59
schestowitz	The valuation has gone down the gutter since	Jan 30 16:59
*schestowitz is also doing Comes exhibits now (hence lag)		Jan 30 16:59
jose	schestowitz is always doing comes exhibits now	Jan 30 17:00
schestowitz	jose: no, not interrupting, just reading from ‘the top’ first	Jan 30 17:00
schestowitz	I find it fascination how the (now unfolding) financial scam impacts those who gamed the system the most	Jan 30 17:01
jose	well to conclude the earnings thing.. the problem will be that you look good on paper today, but then the revenues and cash dry up tomorrow.. the end.	Jan 30 17:01
schestowitz	Microsoft is among these (probably Novell too)	Jan 30 17:01
schestowitz	Novell was sued by investors	Jan 30 17:01
schestowitz	Groklaw also caught them last year	Jan 30 17:01
jose	the b&m foundry is the “secret” mine where the thieves stash the loot taken from the public. ..	Jan 30 17:04
jose	they are only leveraging the system that exists	Jan 30 17:04
schestowitz	B&M?	Jan 30 17:08
jose	gates foundry	Jan 30 17:20
jose	bill melinda	Jan 30 17:20
schestowitz	Hehe.	Jan 30 17:22
schestowitz	Thew tax evading, puppy-loving scheme	Jan 30 17:22
schestowitz	jose: can you write an essay to explain this? Even a short one. I’d love to publish this.	Jan 30 17:24
jose	what are we talking about now?	Jan 30 17:25
schestowitz	There are other issues with B&M, the least of which being that they push the IP of US-based pharmas that ‘buy’ lives	Jan 30 17:25
jose	schestowitz, are you saying you want a short essay soon on the patent/api?	Jan 30 17:30
jose	let me quote something from the current draft (I hope to keep it to the point and as short as possible): …	Jan 30 17:30
jose	“A patent claim can be redefined as a set of properties (p1, p2, ..) such that infringement by a product occurs if and only if these patent claim properties are all included among the set of properties defining the product. A claim usually can be defined with a (relatively) small number of basic properties, usually expressed using high-level descriptions in (eg) English.”	Jan 30 17:30
jose	it gets better though…	Jan 30 17:31
jose	but this upcoming quote is the point where I stopped yesterday	Jan 30 17:31
jose	“What is an “API”? An API is any specification of a software interface.[1] In the current context, an API will require that a software product or software method attain certain properties. The development platform surrounding that API will make sure that the applications being built according to an API perform according to the API. If the API says that use of X according to its rules will imply all Ys will have Zs, then the development platform tools wil	Jan 30 17:32
jose	l ensure that, when X is used as prescribed, the application acquires the property that all Ys will have Zs.”	Jan 30 17:32
jose	i’m not sure if throwing this out makes sense	Jan 30 17:32
jose	a key point is to redefine patent claims, products, and api, in terms of properties that hold, resp.	Jan 30 17:33
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jose	it then becomes very easy to see just how api can be used to instill (“bake in”) the properties of the patent into the products	Jan 30 17:34
jose	i want to compare/contrast some of the main possibilities when you have a patent, an api, and a product.. this way people can more easily see by seeing the differences	Jan 30 17:35
jose	..and the similarities	Jan 30 17:35
jose	honestly, I’m trying not to make it too technical sounding..	Jan 30 17:36
jose	in the draft, i’m just getting the main framework based on some things I thought about some days back (after I wrote you)	Jan 30 17:36
jose	i also want to add some key examples (hypotheticals but based on real api or patents.. to ground it in reality some)	Jan 30 17:37
jose	..and for effect	Jan 30 17:37
jose	finally, i’ll need to rework the draft a few times so that it all gels together ok	Jan 30 17:37
jose	so, schestowitz..	Jan 30 17:37
jose	if you want a short version.. what should i focus on.. or do you want to wait?	Jan 30 17:38
schestowitz	Good.	Jan 30 17:40
schestowitz	You seem to have formalised it	Jan 30 17:41
schestowitz	OK. Caught up	Jan 30 17:42
schestowitz	That’s all good, even if you don’t think it’s polished enough.	Jan 30 17:42
jose	well, i posted something that i felt sounded good, but there has to be more	Jan 30 17:43
jose	so do you want to wait a bit or what?	Jan 30 17:43
jose	i even considered how far i might be able to formalize a proof.. but it’s not my..	Jan 30 17:44
jose	interest at this point in time to attempt that because so many aspects depend on things like..	Jan 30 17:44
jose	English interpretation of (a) law, (b) patents, … inside court rooms.	Jan 30 17:45
jose	i’d also have to make sure i know every detail of current law.. eg, us law	Jan 30 17:45
jose	i like math because you can ultimately come up with something that is almost completely proven without doubt (assuming you can follow the jargon)..	Jan 30 17:45
jose	and you rely on very well defined items	Jan 30 17:46
jose	on the other hand, a model can be created for anything.	Jan 30 17:46
jose	so a simple model for patents might be possible and then something like a formal proof could be attempted (while stating the assumptions, etc)	Jan 30 17:46
jose	anyway.. i was just fantisizing for a minute there	Jan 30 17:47
jose	what i care about is that if real dangers exist, that developers have their eyes open to them	Jan 30 17:47
jose	and that less tech savvy people understand the gist of the arguments and vote accordingly	Jan 30 17:48
schestowitz	jose: that’s good	Jan 30 17:48
schestowitz	In fact, all the comments back then were good	Jan 30 17:48
jose	this time, we talk about the patent-api trap. later on we can talk more carefully about implications	Jan 30 17:49
schestowitz	That’s why I wanted to make a post out of them to give them visibility, you know?	Jan 30 17:49
schestowitz	There are also those from Linux Today	Jan 30 17:49
schestowitz	You could, in principle, just group a few and have them posted	Jan 30 17:49
jose	i’ll reference the two from LT that are easy to follow	Jan 30 17:49
jose	in fact, at the very top, i reference them since they serve to communicate the main points easily	Jan 30 17:50
schestowitz	yes, link to comments too	Jan 30 17:50
jose	.. and i can then get a little more technical so that i don’t wave my hands as much and am more believable	Jan 30 17:50
schestowitz	Use it as peripheral source.	Jan 30 17:50
jose	i may link to a few other comments	Jan 30 17:50
schestowitz	I do this a lot in BN to keep posts concise	Jan 30 17:50
schestowitz	As if to say, “I covered X there, so I hereby paste [X] here”	Jan 30 17:51
schestowitz	Instead of pasting I just link	Jan 30 17:51
schestowitz	In USENET it’s harder	Jan 30 17:51
schestowitz	I have no mechanism for linking there	Jan 30 17:51
schestowitz	Re: Comes, the Wiki is brilliant for the purpose	Jan 30 17:51
schestowitz	I can link in cyclic fashion too, so it’s easy to group evidence and show how things are related to one another	Jan 30 17:52
jose	yes, a wiki can really offload work from you so that it can get done faster (no central chokepoint)	Jan 30 17:52
schestowitz	When I started BN Shane and I started with 0	Jan 30 17:52
MinceR	http://www.penny-arcade.com…	Jan 30 17:52
schestowitz	When the site was accommodated with like 5500 posts it got easy to find ‘proof’ for anything (mainly extremal refs in internal ‘umbrellas’). A lot of merely cumulative	Jan 30 17:53
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/wiki/ind…	Jan 30 18:03
trmanco	:O	Jan 30 18:08
trmanco	450 new messages in COLA	Jan 30 18:08
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trmanco	lets see how many I will have after I apply the filters	Jan 30 18:08
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trmanco	333	Jan 30 18:09
trmanco	hmmm	Jan 30 18:09
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schestowitz	Trolling declined	Jan 30 18:20
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trmanco	I might of missed a new troll or something	Jan 30 18:24
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schestowitz	This might make the front page: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Mic…	Jan 30 18:36
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schestowitz	http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php… “You’re not the only one to have seen this. Every time Microsoft is in some form of trouble (financial, legal, competitive, etc.), the astroturfers slither out of the woodwork.”	Jan 30 18:54
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